1 00:00:01,440 --> 00:00:06,360 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 2 00:00:11,119 --> 00:00:13,319 Speaker 2: Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, and there's 3 00:00:13,400 --> 00:00:16,880 Speaker 2: Chuck and Jerry's here too, And this is Stuff you 4 00:00:16,920 --> 00:00:21,920 Speaker 2: should Know. And that's it. It's the and On edition. 5 00:00:24,200 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's about editorial cartoons aka political cartoons. They are 6 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:32,800 Speaker 3: one and the same. They're you know, usually appear in 7 00:00:32,840 --> 00:00:36,280 Speaker 3: the traditionally in the editorial section or the opinion section 8 00:00:36,360 --> 00:00:38,800 Speaker 3: of newspapers, so that's why you can call them either. 9 00:00:39,840 --> 00:00:44,800 Speaker 3: And this is a profession that appears to be dying 10 00:00:44,840 --> 00:00:47,760 Speaker 3: out if you look at the number of editorial cartoonists 11 00:00:47,760 --> 00:00:52,320 Speaker 3: that are like full time staff at major newspapers, because 12 00:00:52,320 --> 00:00:54,480 Speaker 3: there used to be more than two thousand about one 13 00:00:54,560 --> 00:00:58,080 Speaker 3: hundred years ago. Now there's less than twenty. And Dave, 14 00:00:58,280 --> 00:00:59,960 Speaker 3: you know, helped us with this and found that staff. 15 00:01:00,160 --> 00:01:02,560 Speaker 3: And I think we were both initially like, oh my god, 16 00:01:02,640 --> 00:01:06,120 Speaker 3: they're all going away. Not necessarily true. Those are full 17 00:01:06,120 --> 00:01:09,720 Speaker 3: time staffers on newspapers. Newspapers are in trouble, so that's 18 00:01:09,760 --> 00:01:12,000 Speaker 3: a big reason why we'll get to that. But there 19 00:01:12,040 --> 00:01:16,560 Speaker 3: are still plenty of editorial cartoonists and political cartoonists mainly 20 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:18,160 Speaker 3: working online. 21 00:01:18,040 --> 00:01:21,880 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And for syndication companies, Like you can work 22 00:01:21,920 --> 00:01:24,600 Speaker 2: for a syndicate and they'll distribute it to newspapers that 23 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,800 Speaker 2: want to run your political cartoon, just like with comics. 24 00:01:28,680 --> 00:01:31,960 Speaker 3: Yeah. So it's I won't say like we're at peak 25 00:01:32,319 --> 00:01:34,760 Speaker 3: the Golden age of it, but it's it's still alive 26 00:01:34,800 --> 00:01:36,479 Speaker 3: and well in just sort of a different form. 27 00:01:36,560 --> 00:01:39,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. I've seen the Golden Age referred to as in 28 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:42,760 Speaker 2: the nineteenth century. You know, I'm like, these people didn't 29 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,360 Speaker 2: live through the eighties. That was the golden age. 30 00:01:46,440 --> 00:01:49,480 Speaker 3: Baby, oh man, I saw if I had a dime 31 00:01:49,640 --> 00:01:54,040 Speaker 3: for every like cartoonish drawing of Tip O'Neil or Ronald Reagan. 32 00:01:54,040 --> 00:01:56,840 Speaker 3: I saw growing up a security right, I didn't even like, 33 00:01:56,880 --> 00:01:57,680 Speaker 3: who are these people? 34 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:02,160 Speaker 2: Yeah? No, that's a really great point that they editorial 35 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,920 Speaker 2: cartoons are like of the moment sometimes of the day 36 00:02:06,360 --> 00:02:09,080 Speaker 2: where they like, they'll still make sense later that week, 37 00:02:09,120 --> 00:02:12,440 Speaker 2: but they're not hitting because something already changed or moved 38 00:02:12,480 --> 00:02:16,040 Speaker 2: on and they don't. As such, it's very rare that 39 00:02:16,080 --> 00:02:21,200 Speaker 2: an editorial cartoon can still like land the way it 40 00:02:21,240 --> 00:02:24,040 Speaker 2: originally did. That means that whatever it was talking about 41 00:02:24,160 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 2: was so historic that people decades on know the like 42 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 2: the ins and outs of it that the political cartoon 43 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:34,000 Speaker 2: is referring to. But for the most part, it's like 44 00:02:35,040 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 2: daily minutia of ongoing politics and government. And if you 45 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:41,800 Speaker 2: just go back, like ten or fifteen years, it's like, 46 00:02:41,840 --> 00:02:45,880 Speaker 2: I forgot John Bayner even existed until I went back 47 00:02:45,919 --> 00:02:48,440 Speaker 2: and looked at some of the old political cartoons, and 48 00:02:48,480 --> 00:02:51,960 Speaker 2: it's so important at the time, but you know, all 49 00:02:52,000 --> 00:02:54,720 Speaker 2: these years on, it does not matter what that political 50 00:02:54,760 --> 00:02:57,280 Speaker 2: cartoon was saying at the time it was. And that's 51 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,120 Speaker 2: a huge point about those things. 52 00:02:59,480 --> 00:03:03,320 Speaker 3: That's why Michaels Ducaucus drove a tank. I remember, who's 53 00:03:03,360 --> 00:03:09,040 Speaker 3: Michael doucaccas funny stuff? Oh yeah, his wife Kitty, that's right. 54 00:03:09,280 --> 00:03:13,079 Speaker 3: And dan Quail spells potato wrong. It's so funny to 55 00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,880 Speaker 3: kind of think about the greatest political hits of our childhood. 56 00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:21,040 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's it's really far away, Chuck. 57 00:03:21,840 --> 00:03:24,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, But like you said, it's sort of like greatest hits. 58 00:03:24,160 --> 00:03:28,160 Speaker 3: You can look back at some Nixon Watergate political cartoons 59 00:03:28,360 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 3: and totally get it, and they land, but they're not 60 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:34,880 Speaker 3: always funny. And that's the whole point of this, or 61 00:03:34,880 --> 00:03:39,200 Speaker 3: not the whole point. But it's satire. It's satire. Can 62 00:03:39,280 --> 00:03:41,800 Speaker 3: be super super funny, like if you read The Onion 63 00:03:41,880 --> 00:03:45,760 Speaker 3: or something like that, or a well made satirical film 64 00:03:45,960 --> 00:03:49,600 Speaker 3: or television show, but it's a different kind of humor. 65 00:03:49,720 --> 00:03:52,920 Speaker 3: A lot of times satire isn't necessarily laugh out loud 66 00:03:52,960 --> 00:03:56,760 Speaker 3: stuff because the point of satire usually is to influence 67 00:03:57,240 --> 00:04:01,200 Speaker 3: what somebody thinks about something through in this case, image right. 68 00:04:02,320 --> 00:04:05,040 Speaker 2: One of the explanations I saw for satires that it 69 00:04:05,120 --> 00:04:09,680 Speaker 2: uses like a surface level presentation of a point to 70 00:04:09,800 --> 00:04:14,000 Speaker 2: point out that the counterpoint is actually the more sensible thing. 71 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:17,400 Speaker 3: I can if I thought about that and saw it 72 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:19,640 Speaker 3: written down, I could probably figure out exactly. 73 00:04:19,680 --> 00:04:22,760 Speaker 2: Okay, I've got one for you, Alexander Pope said, Praise 74 00:04:23,000 --> 00:04:29,159 Speaker 2: undeserved is satire in disguise. No, still nothing. Okay, go 75 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,640 Speaker 2: watch the movie Soul Plane or Brian's Song and you 76 00:04:32,720 --> 00:04:34,960 Speaker 2: will know what I'm talking about with satire. 77 00:04:36,680 --> 00:04:40,160 Speaker 3: Brian's Song. You know they used to use that in 78 00:04:40,400 --> 00:04:43,080 Speaker 3: crying studies. That's the one thing I remember about Brian 79 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:44,920 Speaker 3: Song was when I was a kid, I saw a 80 00:04:44,960 --> 00:04:49,080 Speaker 3: news report where they're like, this new movie is so sad, 81 00:04:50,040 --> 00:04:52,680 Speaker 3: and it showed people like in a room watching Brian's 82 00:04:52,680 --> 00:04:56,839 Speaker 3: Song with these little tear gutters strapped to their face. Yeah, 83 00:04:57,240 --> 00:04:59,119 Speaker 3: and just like bawling at that movie. 84 00:04:59,200 --> 00:05:01,679 Speaker 2: And I'm sure the pull cartoon of the day about 85 00:05:01,800 --> 00:05:04,800 Speaker 2: right had people crying and somebody said, are they watching 86 00:05:04,839 --> 00:05:07,320 Speaker 2: Brian's song? And the guy says, no, they just found 87 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 2: out Ronald Reagan was re elected governor. 88 00:05:10,640 --> 00:05:13,360 Speaker 3: Well, we also you and I are as we said 89 00:05:13,400 --> 00:05:16,240 Speaker 3: on record many times before I grew up as adherence 90 00:05:16,279 --> 00:05:20,080 Speaker 3: to Mad magazine, and they didn't. I mean, they did 91 00:05:20,120 --> 00:05:23,080 Speaker 3: political cartoons essentially, it just wasn't for a newspaper, but 92 00:05:23,120 --> 00:05:24,320 Speaker 3: there was plenty of that stuff in there. 93 00:05:24,480 --> 00:05:29,200 Speaker 2: Nice point. One of the other things about political cartoons 94 00:05:29,240 --> 00:05:33,279 Speaker 2: is they present opinion. They do it in a way 95 00:05:33,279 --> 00:05:36,160 Speaker 2: that's humorous, that's recognizable, you don't have to know how 96 00:05:36,160 --> 00:05:38,679 Speaker 2: to read, which was for a long time the point 97 00:05:38,720 --> 00:05:43,599 Speaker 2: of political cartoons. And it's presented in a way so 98 00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:47,040 Speaker 2: that it takes everything you know. It makes assumptions about 99 00:05:47,080 --> 00:05:49,160 Speaker 2: what you know. But usually they're pretty good at that, 100 00:05:49,640 --> 00:05:52,760 Speaker 2: and it takes everything you know and can turn it 101 00:05:52,800 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 2: on its head, can point out the folly, the ridiculousness 102 00:05:55,960 --> 00:06:01,320 Speaker 2: of usually governments, politicians, policy sees that kind of stuff, 103 00:06:01,640 --> 00:06:07,679 Speaker 2: but sometimes it's aimed unfairly at groups of people. The 104 00:06:07,880 --> 00:06:11,599 Speaker 2: other point about it is that the actual like types 105 00:06:11,640 --> 00:06:16,440 Speaker 2: of art it uses have been shown to neurologically like 106 00:06:16,640 --> 00:06:20,120 Speaker 2: hit us different than say, like a photograph. 107 00:06:20,440 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 3: Yeah, like when you draw a caricature or someone, or exaggerate, 108 00:06:24,839 --> 00:06:29,560 Speaker 3: exaggerate the three year old if you exaggerate. 109 00:06:29,080 --> 00:06:33,360 Speaker 2: Some Wait, hold on right, you can't do it as 110 00:06:33,360 --> 00:06:33,839 Speaker 2: well as you. 111 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,400 Speaker 3: That's right, that's pretty good. Uh yeah, it's it's has 112 00:06:38,440 --> 00:06:40,760 Speaker 3: more of a like, neurologically more of an impact than 113 00:06:40,800 --> 00:06:44,280 Speaker 3: an actual photograph of somebody doing something even ridiculous. 114 00:06:44,440 --> 00:06:48,039 Speaker 2: Yeah, it's called a super normal stimulus or a super stimuli, 115 00:06:48,200 --> 00:06:51,760 Speaker 2: which is it just hits your brain that much harder. 116 00:06:52,120 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 2: And so the caricature like, it's just something people just 117 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,839 Speaker 2: figured out over time, building little by little to create 118 00:06:59,880 --> 00:07:04,599 Speaker 2: like the optimal political cartoon, which apparently popped up around 119 00:07:04,640 --> 00:07:05,800 Speaker 2: the nineteen fifties. 120 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:09,320 Speaker 3: Well, or if you go to you know, a theme 121 00:07:09,400 --> 00:07:12,160 Speaker 3: park or the streets of Paris or something, and you 122 00:07:12,200 --> 00:07:15,920 Speaker 3: see a caricature artist parked next to the realistic like 123 00:07:15,920 --> 00:07:18,560 Speaker 3: I'll do a realistic pencil sketch of you. Yeah, you 124 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:21,720 Speaker 3: got like one person over there, you got ten people 125 00:07:21,760 --> 00:07:24,880 Speaker 3: in line, trying to get a big, old fathead version 126 00:07:24,880 --> 00:07:25,480 Speaker 3: of themselves. 127 00:07:25,560 --> 00:07:28,240 Speaker 2: Yeah, because they want to be super stimulated. 128 00:07:29,480 --> 00:07:31,800 Speaker 3: Can I amend one thing that you said. You said 129 00:07:31,840 --> 00:07:35,600 Speaker 3: that they use humor almost always that's the case, But 130 00:07:36,720 --> 00:07:39,760 Speaker 3: some of my favorite political cartoons over the years sometimes 131 00:07:39,760 --> 00:07:44,640 Speaker 3: they'll have just the really brutally cut, punchy sad ones. Yes, 132 00:07:44,680 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 3: they're very very effective, you know, hilarious. 133 00:07:48,080 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 2: No, yeah, no, they definitely. It doesn't always have to 134 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:53,760 Speaker 2: be humor, right. 135 00:07:53,920 --> 00:07:56,680 Speaker 3: For sure, but what it always has to do is 136 00:07:56,840 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 3: prove some kind of a point. There's never a political 137 00:07:59,520 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 3: cartoon like, oh, this is just funny or something, because 138 00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:06,400 Speaker 3: that's a comic striper. That's family circus exactly. 139 00:08:07,600 --> 00:08:12,360 Speaker 2: So I say we go back way back to potentially 140 00:08:12,400 --> 00:08:17,280 Speaker 2: the origin of political cartoons, which were religious in nature, 141 00:08:17,320 --> 00:08:20,680 Speaker 2: because back in the sixteenth century, when Martin Luther was 142 00:08:20,720 --> 00:08:24,160 Speaker 2: trying to reform the Catholic Church and ended up just 143 00:08:24,240 --> 00:08:28,920 Speaker 2: kind of spinning off his own jam, the religion was politics. 144 00:08:28,960 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 2: They were interchangeable, it was one of the same. So 145 00:08:31,480 --> 00:08:37,959 Speaker 2: when he started printing wood cut cartoons that were really 146 00:08:38,040 --> 00:08:41,600 Speaker 2: unflattering depictions of the pope and the bishops and the 147 00:08:41,600 --> 00:08:46,240 Speaker 2: cardinals who aided the Pope. He was making a political statement. 148 00:08:46,559 --> 00:08:49,400 Speaker 2: And so some people say that some of these prints 149 00:08:49,400 --> 00:08:52,680 Speaker 2: from like way back in fifteen forty five, there's one 150 00:08:52,679 --> 00:08:56,079 Speaker 2: called The Birth and Origin of the Pope, that this 151 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,679 Speaker 2: was essentially the first political cartoon ever printed. Because that's 152 00:08:59,679 --> 00:09:03,160 Speaker 2: another thing too, you have to have a mass medium 153 00:09:03,600 --> 00:09:07,440 Speaker 2: to spread this idea. And so this was shortly after 154 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,839 Speaker 2: the printing press was invented, and almost off the bat, 155 00:09:11,080 --> 00:09:13,880 Speaker 2: Martin Luther was among the people who were using it 156 00:09:13,920 --> 00:09:16,319 Speaker 2: to make political statements using cartoons. 157 00:09:16,800 --> 00:09:20,120 Speaker 3: That's right. And if you're at home saying like, I 158 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:23,480 Speaker 3: bet he did that because so many people couldn't read yet, 159 00:09:23,880 --> 00:09:27,200 Speaker 3: you're exactly right. The printing press was brand new and 160 00:09:27,679 --> 00:09:32,959 Speaker 3: that changed literacy for the world basically, but right after 161 00:09:33,120 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 3: it was invented, a lot of people still couldn't read, 162 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:37,400 Speaker 3: and so he knew that if he wanted to hit 163 00:09:37,440 --> 00:09:40,960 Speaker 3: his target audience in the right way, the Birth and 164 00:09:41,040 --> 00:09:42,679 Speaker 3: Origin of the Pope, it's a good way to do it. 165 00:09:42,840 --> 00:09:44,520 Speaker 3: We'll describe a few of these that are sort of 166 00:09:44,520 --> 00:09:47,560 Speaker 3: easy to picture. We're not going to get in the weeds, 167 00:09:47,600 --> 00:09:50,000 Speaker 3: I think, kind of describing in detailed pictures on an 168 00:09:50,040 --> 00:09:52,880 Speaker 3: audio show. But this one is very simple. It was 169 00:09:52,920 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 3: the Pope and the cardinals being pooped out by a 170 00:09:57,400 --> 00:09:58,239 Speaker 3: she devil. 171 00:09:58,640 --> 00:10:00,959 Speaker 2: And then yeah, and then nursed by other she doubles 172 00:10:01,040 --> 00:10:05,319 Speaker 2: Medusa's breastfeeding. It looks like a bishop in one part 173 00:10:05,360 --> 00:10:10,200 Speaker 2: of this. It's really something. And that was I think, 174 00:10:10,480 --> 00:10:14,200 Speaker 2: I think, I said fifteen forty five, and then nothing 175 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:18,000 Speaker 2: happened for two hundred years. And then a guy came 176 00:10:18,040 --> 00:10:22,360 Speaker 2: along named William Hogarth. And those of you who really, 177 00:10:22,520 --> 00:10:26,800 Speaker 2: really really pay attention to the stuff we say might 178 00:10:27,360 --> 00:10:29,640 Speaker 2: find that that name rings a bell, and that would 179 00:10:29,679 --> 00:10:33,559 Speaker 2: be because we talked about William Hogarth and our gin episode. 180 00:10:33,760 --> 00:10:37,640 Speaker 3: That's right, there was a political cartoon he drew about, 181 00:10:37,960 --> 00:10:41,600 Speaker 3: you know, drunks basically living at the corner of Beer 182 00:10:41,640 --> 00:10:45,240 Speaker 3: Street in jen Lane. And that was Hogarth, who's considered 183 00:10:45,280 --> 00:10:49,360 Speaker 3: the grandfather of political cartoons. He was a serious painter, 184 00:10:50,080 --> 00:10:53,760 Speaker 3: but then he got into making fun of rich folks 185 00:10:53,760 --> 00:10:54,600 Speaker 3: in London. 186 00:10:55,480 --> 00:10:59,079 Speaker 2: Yes for sure. And he also it was a social commentary, 187 00:10:59,400 --> 00:11:02,680 Speaker 2: so it was sad attire, it was exaggerated. That's another 188 00:11:02,800 --> 00:11:08,240 Speaker 2: kind of key part of political cartoons, and it made 189 00:11:08,240 --> 00:11:11,720 Speaker 2: a point about in this case society rather than politics. 190 00:11:12,679 --> 00:11:16,000 Speaker 2: And so as a result William Hogarth is considered the 191 00:11:16,040 --> 00:11:20,720 Speaker 2: grandfather of political cartoons. He was not making political cartoons, 192 00:11:20,760 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 2: but he definitely set out some of the points on 193 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,480 Speaker 2: the table that would later be picked up actually fairly 194 00:11:26,559 --> 00:11:33,679 Speaker 2: quickly by printers, publishers, and cartoonists, among whom was Benjamin Franklin, 195 00:11:34,080 --> 00:11:38,960 Speaker 2: who started He ran what's considered the first American political 196 00:11:39,000 --> 00:11:41,520 Speaker 2: cartoon back in seventeen fifty four. 197 00:11:42,559 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 3: Yeah, so that was only, you know, a couple of 198 00:11:44,400 --> 00:11:52,880 Speaker 3: decades after Hogarth. Yeah, Hogarth's Hogwart his earliest work. So 199 00:11:53,040 --> 00:11:55,559 Speaker 3: it was sort of in the same era. And as 200 00:11:55,600 --> 00:11:57,480 Speaker 3: we all know, or maybe some people don't know this, 201 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:02,480 Speaker 3: Benjamin Franklin ran a newspaper, yeah, the Philadelphia Gazette, and 202 00:12:02,720 --> 00:12:06,000 Speaker 3: it was a cartoon. It was a cut up rattlesnake, 203 00:12:06,520 --> 00:12:10,840 Speaker 3: with each section of the snake being a colony, like 204 00:12:10,880 --> 00:12:13,160 Speaker 3: you know, New York had the abbreviation of the colony 205 00:12:13,160 --> 00:12:15,720 Speaker 3: and it said join or die, and it was, you know, 206 00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:19,120 Speaker 3: to try and rally people to unify against France and 207 00:12:19,160 --> 00:12:21,560 Speaker 3: the lead up to the French and Indian War. And 208 00:12:21,600 --> 00:12:25,079 Speaker 3: he is credited as even though he probably didn't draw 209 00:12:25,080 --> 00:12:27,400 Speaker 3: this thing, he ran it. He is credited for making 210 00:12:27,440 --> 00:12:30,120 Speaker 3: the rattlesnake a popular symbol for the colonies of the 211 00:12:30,720 --> 00:12:32,840 Speaker 3: well not United States yet, the colonies. Yeah, it's all 212 00:12:32,840 --> 00:12:33,320 Speaker 3: I need to say. 213 00:12:33,320 --> 00:12:35,760 Speaker 2: And that's a pretty famous image that cut up snake 214 00:12:35,840 --> 00:12:40,480 Speaker 2: as far as the US is concerned. But that was 215 00:12:40,520 --> 00:12:44,920 Speaker 2: almost like a little side step for political cartoons because again, 216 00:12:45,360 --> 00:12:48,760 Speaker 2: nothing happened for a good fifty years. And then along 217 00:12:48,800 --> 00:12:52,760 Speaker 2: came James Gilray. He is considered the father of political cartoons. 218 00:12:53,000 --> 00:12:57,720 Speaker 2: He was drawing satirical images to lampoon and point out 219 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 2: the folly of people in charge. In this case, the 220 00:13:03,240 --> 00:13:07,360 Speaker 2: King George the Third was his favorite, his favorite target 221 00:13:07,400 --> 00:13:10,920 Speaker 2: because he was British. He was also anti colonial too, 222 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:13,800 Speaker 2: and so there was one very famous one that he 223 00:13:13,880 --> 00:13:17,440 Speaker 2: did that depicts the Prime Minister at the time, William Pitt, 224 00:13:17,679 --> 00:13:21,400 Speaker 2: with Napoleon carving up the world to eat. Yeah, it's 225 00:13:21,440 --> 00:13:24,640 Speaker 2: in the form of a plum pudding also known as 226 00:13:24,679 --> 00:13:29,240 Speaker 2: plum poutine, and Pitt and Napoleon are sitting at a 227 00:13:29,280 --> 00:13:32,680 Speaker 2: table carving it up, just greedily eating the rest of 228 00:13:32,720 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 2: the world. And apparently Napoleon was well aware of James 229 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,720 Speaker 2: Gilray because he had a pretty great quote, didn't he. 230 00:13:39,760 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 3: H Yeah, I used to do a good Napoleon. I 231 00:13:42,360 --> 00:13:45,440 Speaker 3: am I gonna try, though. Really he said that Gilray 232 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:47,640 Speaker 3: did more than all the armies of Europe to bring 233 00:13:47,679 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 3: me down. And if you look at this cartoon, it's 234 00:13:52,440 --> 00:13:55,120 Speaker 3: it really sort of looks like what we know as 235 00:13:55,160 --> 00:13:59,400 Speaker 3: a modern political editorial cartoon. It's really really cool looking 236 00:13:59,400 --> 00:14:01,400 Speaker 3: and it looks great. The art is great, but it 237 00:14:01,520 --> 00:14:04,120 Speaker 3: just it sort of has that look. It seems like 238 00:14:04,200 --> 00:14:07,520 Speaker 3: one of the probably the first person who was making 239 00:14:07,720 --> 00:14:09,559 Speaker 3: these cartoons that look like what we have today. 240 00:14:09,679 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 2: Right, that's why Gilbert is considered the father of the 241 00:14:12,240 --> 00:14:15,440 Speaker 2: whole thing, that's right, And he came around. I think 242 00:14:15,480 --> 00:14:18,000 Speaker 2: that the plumb Pudding in Danger was the name of 243 00:14:18,000 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 2: the one we were just talking about. That was in 244 00:14:19,400 --> 00:14:23,040 Speaker 2: eighteen and oh five. And at the same time, magazines 245 00:14:23,080 --> 00:14:27,480 Speaker 2: started being established and founded around this time that were 246 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:32,200 Speaker 2: dedicated to satire. So the form, the art form of 247 00:14:32,240 --> 00:14:37,160 Speaker 2: political cartoons and political satirical magazines came together at the 248 00:14:37,320 --> 00:14:40,200 Speaker 2: very beginning of the nineteenth century, not just in Britain 249 00:14:40,240 --> 00:14:45,120 Speaker 2: but France. Turns out, France is basically the spears point 250 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 2: of satire. Yeah, did not know that, but that's it's 251 00:14:49,360 --> 00:14:49,800 Speaker 2: the truth. 252 00:14:49,840 --> 00:14:53,520 Speaker 3: Everybody I remember when the Charlie Hebdos stuff came out, 253 00:14:53,520 --> 00:14:55,400 Speaker 3: and we're going to talk about that toward in the 254 00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:59,200 Speaker 3: act three here, But that's when I sort of learned, like, how, 255 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:02,400 Speaker 3: you know Stute and on point their satire had been 256 00:15:02,440 --> 00:15:05,120 Speaker 3: for a long long time. I didn't know that previously, right, Yeah, 257 00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:07,200 Speaker 3: that doesn't seem most very French thing, but I don't know, 258 00:15:07,240 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 3: maybe it is. 259 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:10,880 Speaker 2: I didn't either. But there was a guy from the 260 00:15:11,000 --> 00:15:17,240 Speaker 2: early nineteenth century I think named Honore Domier, and Domier 261 00:15:18,400 --> 00:15:21,040 Speaker 2: actually got in trouble. I think he actually went to 262 00:15:21,120 --> 00:15:25,480 Speaker 2: prison for his political cartoons. 263 00:15:25,560 --> 00:15:25,720 Speaker 4: Right. 264 00:15:26,440 --> 00:15:29,360 Speaker 3: Yeah. In the eighteen thirties, they the French government sort 265 00:15:29,360 --> 00:15:32,720 Speaker 3: of relaxed their laws against censorship and so he had 266 00:15:32,760 --> 00:15:36,720 Speaker 3: a little bit more leeway I guess to operate, and 267 00:15:37,120 --> 00:15:39,680 Speaker 3: initially in eighteen thirty one he was threatened with a 268 00:15:39,880 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 3: six thousand franc fine in eighteen thirty one. That's I 269 00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,240 Speaker 3: don't know what the conversion. 270 00:15:44,880 --> 00:15:46,080 Speaker 2: Is, but that's got to be a lot of dough 271 00:15:46,600 --> 00:15:49,720 Speaker 2: forty five thousand US dollars today, which you think it'd 272 00:15:49,760 --> 00:15:52,160 Speaker 2: be way more. But that's what did you really do that? 273 00:15:53,040 --> 00:15:58,880 Speaker 2: I found a Swedish currency converter, historic currency converter. 274 00:15:58,920 --> 00:16:04,400 Speaker 3: So inflation and currency conversions. Yes, amazing, and that's why 275 00:16:04,400 --> 00:16:05,160 Speaker 3: you're Josh Clark. 276 00:16:06,360 --> 00:16:08,440 Speaker 2: I didn't make this extra money. I just used it. 277 00:16:10,000 --> 00:16:12,440 Speaker 3: Six thousand franc fine. He drew a caricature of King 278 00:16:13,080 --> 00:16:17,480 Speaker 3: Louis Philippe with a pair for a head, and then 279 00:16:17,760 --> 00:16:19,880 Speaker 3: when he was threatened with his fine, he put out 280 00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:23,800 Speaker 3: a possibly one of the first or the first multipanel cartoon, 281 00:16:24,560 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 3: a four panel cartoon showing the metamorphosis from this king, 282 00:16:30,640 --> 00:16:33,960 Speaker 3: going like, he's the king as a caricature, and now 283 00:16:33,960 --> 00:16:36,040 Speaker 3: he looks a little more like a pair, a little 284 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:37,480 Speaker 3: more like a pair, and then he just has a 285 00:16:37,480 --> 00:16:38,400 Speaker 3: pair for a head. 286 00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:41,840 Speaker 2: Yeah. And the whole point was, come on, like, the 287 00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:45,160 Speaker 2: guy looks like a pair, and it's ridiculous that you 288 00:16:45,200 --> 00:16:47,320 Speaker 2: would try to find me six thousand dollars for pointing 289 00:16:47,360 --> 00:16:50,800 Speaker 2: out something so obvious. Yeah, And I guess he avoided 290 00:16:50,960 --> 00:16:55,920 Speaker 2: that fine at the time, but afterward he's like, Okay, 291 00:16:55,960 --> 00:16:58,240 Speaker 2: I really need to get in trouble, so I'm going 292 00:16:58,280 --> 00:17:03,240 Speaker 2: to create one called Argantua. And this one was way 293 00:17:03,240 --> 00:17:05,879 Speaker 2: worse than saying the king looks like he has a 294 00:17:05,920 --> 00:17:09,840 Speaker 2: pair for a head. This was the king Giant like 295 00:17:10,600 --> 00:17:14,240 Speaker 2: gorging himself on taxes that were being fed directly to 296 00:17:14,320 --> 00:17:17,520 Speaker 2: him by the poor people. He's sitting on his throne 297 00:17:17,560 --> 00:17:22,680 Speaker 2: and then he's pooping out like tax breaks and special 298 00:17:22,720 --> 00:17:26,640 Speaker 2: treatment for the wealthy friends of his, And that one 299 00:17:26,720 --> 00:17:27,560 Speaker 2: got him in trouble. 300 00:17:28,040 --> 00:17:30,679 Speaker 3: Yeah, it's a good cartoons, Like it's a ramp from 301 00:17:30,720 --> 00:17:33,119 Speaker 3: the ground straight up to this giant's mouth with people 302 00:17:33,160 --> 00:17:35,280 Speaker 3: in their wheelbears, just like walking up and getting in 303 00:17:35,320 --> 00:17:38,920 Speaker 3: his mouth and being pooped out as spoils. 304 00:17:39,240 --> 00:17:42,320 Speaker 2: It's a great, great piece of art too, Yeah, not 305 00:17:42,400 --> 00:17:46,359 Speaker 2: just the political version of a political aspect. It's beautiful 306 00:17:46,560 --> 00:17:47,960 Speaker 2: as far as art goes. 307 00:17:48,359 --> 00:17:51,480 Speaker 3: But that got him six months in the Huscal, but 308 00:17:51,520 --> 00:17:55,000 Speaker 3: they let him out and he started working again. King 309 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,159 Speaker 3: Philippe was asked about this, and you know, kind of like, 310 00:17:58,200 --> 00:18:00,520 Speaker 3: why are you cracking down on this? But can have 311 00:18:00,640 --> 00:18:03,399 Speaker 3: a pamphlet printed with words that are very critical of you, 312 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:06,280 Speaker 3: And he said, a pamphlet is no more than a 313 00:18:06,359 --> 00:18:10,120 Speaker 3: violation of opinion. A caricature amounts to an act of violence. 314 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:13,600 Speaker 2: You started out with almost a French accent there for 315 00:18:13,640 --> 00:18:14,480 Speaker 2: a second, and then. 316 00:18:14,520 --> 00:18:16,960 Speaker 3: I debated it. Then I came back, and then it 317 00:18:16,960 --> 00:18:18,800 Speaker 3: was British for a hot second, and then it was 318 00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,520 Speaker 3: just regal general regal. 319 00:18:21,960 --> 00:18:27,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, it really did evolve that quickly too, that failed. So, yeah, 320 00:18:27,640 --> 00:18:30,480 Speaker 2: King Louis Philippe put his finger on something that that 321 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,639 Speaker 2: there's something special or something different about a political cartoon 322 00:18:34,680 --> 00:18:38,760 Speaker 2: that is way different than say a news article or 323 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,000 Speaker 2: even a photograph. You know, you can make the point 324 00:18:42,080 --> 00:18:45,359 Speaker 2: the news article for centuries and centuries could only be 325 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 2: read by a select number of people. Everybody could get 326 00:18:48,520 --> 00:18:51,280 Speaker 2: a political cartoon. But there's something more than that too. 327 00:18:51,320 --> 00:18:55,120 Speaker 2: There's there's just something about a political cartoon that people 328 00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:58,520 Speaker 2: who've been taken down by political cartoons have been able 329 00:18:58,520 --> 00:19:01,359 Speaker 2: to put their finger on and say, there's this is 330 00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:04,959 Speaker 2: way worse than just writing about me for some reason. 331 00:19:05,359 --> 00:19:08,840 Speaker 3: Yeah, I think that tracks too, even to like, if 332 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:12,919 Speaker 3: you think about, in like high school, if a teacher 333 00:19:12,960 --> 00:19:16,200 Speaker 3: caught you writing like a note to your friend that said, 334 00:19:16,440 --> 00:19:20,160 Speaker 3: you know, mister Clark is such a jerk. I think 335 00:19:20,160 --> 00:19:22,760 Speaker 3: that would be taken different than if someone drew a 336 00:19:22,760 --> 00:19:26,840 Speaker 3: picture of mister Clark like bit over being paddled by 337 00:19:27,000 --> 00:19:30,560 Speaker 3: a line of students or something. You know, Uh, don't 338 00:19:30,600 --> 00:19:32,439 Speaker 3: you think would it be equal? 339 00:19:33,040 --> 00:19:35,760 Speaker 2: No, it would it'd be equal unless you put like 340 00:19:35,800 --> 00:19:38,760 Speaker 2: stink lines coming off of me and would be really hautful. 341 00:19:39,680 --> 00:19:42,119 Speaker 3: Oh man, stink lines. It was the first person to 342 00:19:42,119 --> 00:19:43,040 Speaker 3: do the stink lines. 343 00:19:43,160 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 2: I don't know. I'll bet it was a political cartoonist too. 344 00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:46,560 Speaker 2: What's that great? 345 00:19:47,400 --> 00:19:48,240 Speaker 3: Should we take a break? 346 00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:49,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, let's take a break and we'll come back and 347 00:19:49,840 --> 00:19:52,639 Speaker 2: talk about one of the more famous political cartoonists of 348 00:19:52,640 --> 00:19:54,720 Speaker 2: all time, Thomas nast. 349 00:20:07,600 --> 00:20:10,399 Speaker 1: Lately, I've been learning some stuff. 350 00:20:10,320 --> 00:20:14,280 Speaker 4: About insomnia or aluminia. 351 00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:19,840 Speaker 1: How about the one on border like disorder that at 352 00:20:19,880 --> 00:20:20,560 Speaker 1: birth order? 353 00:20:21,480 --> 00:20:25,040 Speaker 5: That one be warm, but it was so nice I 354 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:29,280 Speaker 5: learned this. Why except for body, listen. 355 00:20:29,080 --> 00:20:33,240 Speaker 1: Up, stop. 356 00:20:34,640 --> 00:20:39,160 Speaker 5: Stop stop stop. 357 00:20:40,920 --> 00:20:44,919 Speaker 3: All right, we're back, Josh promised. Talk of Thomas Nast. Uh. 358 00:20:45,119 --> 00:20:49,640 Speaker 3: He's the most famous American political cartoonist, probably very influential 359 00:20:50,680 --> 00:20:53,800 Speaker 3: cartoonist of the nineteenth century. And that's you know, early 360 00:20:53,840 --> 00:20:56,840 Speaker 3: on you were like, what what was going on back then? Well, 361 00:20:56,880 --> 00:20:58,880 Speaker 3: the Civil War was going on back then, and he 362 00:20:59,320 --> 00:21:03,800 Speaker 3: was a German immigrant who drew for Harper's Weekly when 363 00:21:04,040 --> 00:21:07,720 Speaker 3: Harper's Weekly was really growing in their readership with a 364 00:21:07,720 --> 00:21:10,399 Speaker 3: lot of pro union political cartoons. 365 00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:14,800 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was one I think kind of tracks with 366 00:21:14,840 --> 00:21:17,159 Speaker 2: what you were saying. It's not at all funny, but 367 00:21:17,240 --> 00:21:22,160 Speaker 2: it's super poignant, right, called Compromise with the South. The 368 00:21:22,200 --> 00:21:25,800 Speaker 2: Democrats had run on a platform that the Civil War 369 00:21:25,840 --> 00:21:27,480 Speaker 2: had been a failure up to this point for the 370 00:21:27,520 --> 00:21:30,680 Speaker 2: eighteen sixty four election when Lincoln was standing for reelection, 371 00:21:31,240 --> 00:21:34,280 Speaker 2: and that we should basically work with the South to 372 00:21:34,320 --> 00:21:37,280 Speaker 2: just forget about the Civil War and end this. And 373 00:21:37,359 --> 00:21:39,920 Speaker 2: Thomas Nast didn't like that one bit. So this Compromise 374 00:21:40,000 --> 00:21:46,960 Speaker 2: with the South image shows an amputee Union soldier standing 375 00:21:47,000 --> 00:21:50,240 Speaker 2: on a crutch, shaking hands with his head bowed, shaking 376 00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:56,040 Speaker 2: hands with a triumphant Confederate officer who's Jefferson Davis. Is 377 00:21:56,040 --> 00:21:59,680 Speaker 2: it Jefferson Davis. He's got like his boot standing one 378 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 2: foot on a Union soldier's grave, and Colombia, who represents 379 00:22:05,320 --> 00:22:08,200 Speaker 2: the United States, is weeping at that grave. And then, 380 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:12,000 Speaker 2: also poignantly, there's a Union soldier, an African American Union 381 00:22:12,080 --> 00:22:14,800 Speaker 2: soldier and his wife who are now on the Southern 382 00:22:14,880 --> 00:22:19,320 Speaker 2: side and they're shackled back to being slaves. 383 00:22:19,400 --> 00:22:21,320 Speaker 3: So it's a gut punch man, it is. 384 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,280 Speaker 2: It's a really good example of a political cartoon that 385 00:22:25,359 --> 00:22:28,880 Speaker 2: isn't funny but really gets the point across. And apparently 386 00:22:28,920 --> 00:22:33,160 Speaker 2: it had a huge impact on America, especially the Union, right. 387 00:22:33,840 --> 00:22:35,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean some people say that had a lot 388 00:22:35,960 --> 00:22:39,560 Speaker 3: to do with Lincoln getting re elected. Lincoln referred to 389 00:22:39,600 --> 00:22:42,840 Speaker 3: Thomas Nast at one point as our best recruiting agent, 390 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:48,119 Speaker 3: and in the eighteen sixty eight election, Ulysses S. Grant 391 00:22:48,680 --> 00:22:51,960 Speaker 3: credited his win to the sword of Sheridan and the 392 00:22:52,000 --> 00:22:52,879 Speaker 3: pencil of Nast. 393 00:22:53,240 --> 00:22:53,440 Speaker 2: Yeah. 394 00:22:54,240 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 3: I had never heard of Colombia, but you'll see in 395 00:22:57,680 --> 00:23:00,639 Speaker 3: a lot of these political cartoons, Colombia as a presentation 396 00:23:00,760 --> 00:23:04,080 Speaker 3: of America was used a lot. And I think this 397 00:23:04,200 --> 00:23:05,399 Speaker 3: is just a guess. I didn't look it up, but 398 00:23:05,440 --> 00:23:07,920 Speaker 3: it seems like Lady Liberty's Statue of Liberty has sort 399 00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:12,000 Speaker 3: of replaced Columbia as far as the cartoon ship goes, 400 00:23:12,040 --> 00:23:15,280 Speaker 3: because anytime there's like a sort of one of the 401 00:23:15,359 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 3: sad gut punch ones, it's some shameful thing America has done, 402 00:23:18,480 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 3: and like Lady Liberty is crying somewhere or something like that. 403 00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:27,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think Uncle Sam also displaced clos well, and 404 00:23:27,480 --> 00:23:31,639 Speaker 2: Thomas Nast is the one who popularized the current image 405 00:23:31,680 --> 00:23:34,640 Speaker 2: of Uncle Sam with his hat and that's right. All 406 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 2: that that was Thomas Nast as well. He had a huge, 407 00:23:37,200 --> 00:23:40,000 Speaker 2: huge impact as a political cartoonist. 408 00:23:40,760 --> 00:23:42,600 Speaker 3: Well, he did the he was the guy who came 409 00:23:42,680 --> 00:23:46,000 Speaker 3: up with the elephant and the donkey for the two 410 00:23:46,040 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 3: political parties, that's right, and also popularized our current conception, 411 00:23:51,880 --> 00:23:53,639 Speaker 3: American conception of Santa Claus. 412 00:23:53,920 --> 00:23:57,440 Speaker 2: Yeah, because remember German immigrants are the ones who really 413 00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:01,000 Speaker 2: brought Christmas to the United States, and Thomas Nass was 414 00:24:01,000 --> 00:24:05,280 Speaker 2: a German immigrant, so he loved Christmas, and yeah, he 415 00:24:05,320 --> 00:24:07,800 Speaker 2: gave us our version of Santa Claus. The thing that 416 00:24:07,840 --> 00:24:10,800 Speaker 2: he's most remembered for as a political cartoonist, though, is 417 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:17,240 Speaker 2: that he is credited with taking down William Boss Tweed, 418 00:24:17,840 --> 00:24:20,200 Speaker 2: who was one of the most corrupt political officials in 419 00:24:20,240 --> 00:24:23,400 Speaker 2: the history of the United States. Apparently in a decade. 420 00:24:23,920 --> 00:24:28,200 Speaker 2: He is thought to have stolen a billion dollars from 421 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 2: New York City in today's money. 422 00:24:30,920 --> 00:24:34,240 Speaker 3: That's incredible. Yeah, he's popped up a lot in our 423 00:24:34,600 --> 00:24:37,000 Speaker 3: obviously our New York centric episodes about the history of 424 00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:42,639 Speaker 3: New York. Very corrupt person for the Tammany Hall political machine. 425 00:24:42,800 --> 00:24:46,080 Speaker 3: And I think Nast had more than one hundred and 426 00:24:46,119 --> 00:24:49,480 Speaker 3: forty Boss Tweed cartoons alone in Harper's. 427 00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, so yeah, it was a big deal. Boss Tweed, 428 00:24:53,680 --> 00:24:56,080 Speaker 2: very much like King Louis Philippe, was aware that, like 429 00:24:56,160 --> 00:24:58,720 Speaker 2: these things were having an effect on him, and he 430 00:24:58,800 --> 00:25:01,879 Speaker 2: apparently said, stop them, damn pictures. I don't care a 431 00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,639 Speaker 2: straw for your newspaper articles. My constituents can't read, but 432 00:25:05,680 --> 00:25:09,560 Speaker 2: they can't help seeing them damn pictures. And I mean 433 00:25:09,600 --> 00:25:12,080 Speaker 2: there was a lot of reporting at the time by 434 00:25:12,160 --> 00:25:15,800 Speaker 2: some of the New York newspapers like about Boss Tweed, 435 00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,880 Speaker 2: and they definitely had some effect on getting him investigated 436 00:25:19,960 --> 00:25:24,840 Speaker 2: and ultimately put into prison where he died. But like, 437 00:25:24,960 --> 00:25:28,760 Speaker 2: you really can't, like you could put all those articles 438 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:33,360 Speaker 2: and combine them pretty much equally with Thomas Nast's political 439 00:25:33,400 --> 00:25:36,200 Speaker 2: cartoons and be like, this is what took down Boss 440 00:25:36,200 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 2: treat these two things basically equally. 441 00:25:39,080 --> 00:25:42,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. And you know, there are a lot 442 00:25:42,880 --> 00:25:45,399 Speaker 3: of times I think people think about political cartoons as 443 00:25:45,480 --> 00:25:48,800 Speaker 3: coming from the political left or the you know, the 444 00:25:48,800 --> 00:25:52,000 Speaker 3: liberal progressive side, and that is certainly true, but they're 445 00:25:52,440 --> 00:25:56,320 Speaker 3: you know, all kinds of newspapers have always had political cartoons, 446 00:25:56,359 --> 00:25:59,639 Speaker 3: and all sorts of issues have been attacked from all 447 00:25:59,720 --> 00:26:03,080 Speaker 3: l from political cartoonists over the years have been you know, 448 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,680 Speaker 3: plenty of examples of both, and Nasa was one of 449 00:26:05,720 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 3: those that was sort of a contradiction. There's you know, 450 00:26:09,119 --> 00:26:11,879 Speaker 3: we'll talk a little bit about immigration and political cartoons 451 00:26:11,960 --> 00:26:15,560 Speaker 3: throughout history, and he was one who kind of hit 452 00:26:15,600 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 3: it from both sides. He would draw one one year 453 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:24,560 Speaker 3: in eighteen seventy criticizing anti immigration the No Nothing Party, 454 00:26:24,960 --> 00:26:27,080 Speaker 3: and that was called throwing down the Ladder by which 455 00:26:27,080 --> 00:26:30,920 Speaker 3: they rose, and about a year later had political cartoons out, 456 00:26:31,400 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 3: you know, criticizing Irish immigrants as violent drunks taking over 457 00:26:34,720 --> 00:26:35,560 Speaker 3: the country. 458 00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:39,879 Speaker 2: Right, Yeah, And this was a time when immigration was huge, 459 00:26:39,960 --> 00:26:42,960 Speaker 2: huge issue in the United States for probably the first 460 00:26:42,960 --> 00:26:46,199 Speaker 2: time it would became like a flashpoint like issue that 461 00:26:46,280 --> 00:26:48,399 Speaker 2: you could run an entire campaign on. 462 00:26:48,800 --> 00:26:49,560 Speaker 3: Yeah. Yeah. 463 00:26:49,600 --> 00:26:53,240 Speaker 2: For example, there was a cartoon from nineteen oh three 464 00:26:53,280 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: in a satirical weekly called Judge called Unrestricted Dumping Ground Man. 465 00:26:59,280 --> 00:27:02,639 Speaker 2: This one's tough, it is, and there's a lot going 466 00:27:02,680 --> 00:27:09,399 Speaker 2: on in this cartoon. It's color which is it really 467 00:27:09,640 --> 00:27:13,000 Speaker 2: pops But Uncle Sam is basically standing at the shores 468 00:27:13,000 --> 00:27:15,960 Speaker 2: of the United States and there's a bunch of immigrants 469 00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:19,880 Speaker 2: swimming to the shore, but they're rats with human faces, 470 00:27:19,920 --> 00:27:23,200 Speaker 2: which number one is unsettling, but number two is really offensive. 471 00:27:23,600 --> 00:27:26,680 Speaker 2: And they're being dumped out of basically it looks almost 472 00:27:26,720 --> 00:27:29,680 Speaker 2: like a mailbox or something that says the slums of Europe, 473 00:27:30,520 --> 00:27:33,960 Speaker 2: and they're being dumped into New York Harbor and Uncle 474 00:27:34,000 --> 00:27:36,879 Speaker 2: Sam's just standing there watching, wondering if he can do 475 00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:40,199 Speaker 2: anything about it. And then William McKinley is floating in 476 00:27:40,320 --> 00:27:43,639 Speaker 2: like a cloud. The reason William McKinley was featured is 477 00:27:43,640 --> 00:27:46,360 Speaker 2: because he was president. He was assassinated by a guy 478 00:27:46,440 --> 00:27:50,680 Speaker 2: named Leo Cholgosh in eighteen ninety nine, and chol Gosh 479 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:56,359 Speaker 2: born in Michigan, but he was considered an immigrant because 480 00:27:56,359 --> 00:27:59,040 Speaker 2: his parents were immigrants. So like, this was the kind 481 00:27:59,119 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 2: of stuff that was being run in papers and magazines 482 00:28:03,359 --> 00:28:07,400 Speaker 2: at the time, basically saying like like immigrants are rats, 483 00:28:07,640 --> 00:28:09,239 Speaker 2: and like you can't let them in. 484 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:12,920 Speaker 3: Yeah, well, and those rats. Also, just to further drive 485 00:28:12,960 --> 00:28:16,879 Speaker 3: the point home, they had labels on these individual human 486 00:28:17,000 --> 00:28:22,040 Speaker 3: rats that said like mafia, anarchist, socialist, So it was 487 00:28:22,280 --> 00:28:26,040 Speaker 3: you know, pretty on the nose, I guess you could say, right. 488 00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:31,520 Speaker 3: There was another ad as far as the Immigration Front 489 00:28:31,600 --> 00:28:35,600 Speaker 3: goes Teddy. Roosevelt at one point talked about hyphenated Americans 490 00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:39,400 Speaker 3: being able to vote, like that shouldn't happen, Irish, American, German, American. 491 00:28:40,000 --> 00:28:44,920 Speaker 3: And this one was from Puck Magazine, which was is 492 00:28:44,960 --> 00:28:47,560 Speaker 3: that American? Was that British? I thought that was British. 493 00:28:47,600 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 2: I think Punch was British and Puck was America. 494 00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:52,920 Speaker 3: Oh okay, yeah, yeah, Punch was British. But it had 495 00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:55,720 Speaker 3: a caption again Uncle Sam saying, why should I let 496 00:28:55,760 --> 00:28:57,920 Speaker 3: these freaks vote when they're only half American? 497 00:28:58,640 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 2: Right? Yeah, it's a yeah, it's it's a really bizarre cartoon. 498 00:29:03,800 --> 00:29:05,920 Speaker 2: It's tough to describe, but go look that one up. 499 00:29:06,280 --> 00:29:08,760 Speaker 2: So one of the other things we said is that 500 00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:14,040 Speaker 2: political cartoons sometimes also target policies social issues, and there 501 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,600 Speaker 2: was a really good one that Dave turned up called 502 00:29:16,640 --> 00:29:19,320 Speaker 2: from the Cradle to the Mill that really got across 503 00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:22,360 Speaker 2: child labor or the need for child labor laws. It's 504 00:29:22,400 --> 00:29:25,400 Speaker 2: this innocent looking little probably five year old kid. I 505 00:29:25,480 --> 00:29:28,800 Speaker 2: think he's holding a Teddy Bear still, and this dark, 506 00:29:29,280 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 2: ghoulish spirit. 507 00:29:30,560 --> 00:29:32,880 Speaker 3: Named Necessity grim Reaper basically. 508 00:29:32,560 --> 00:29:35,360 Speaker 2: Yeah, essentially has come into the child's house and is 509 00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,600 Speaker 2: taking him by the hand to lead him off to 510 00:29:37,640 --> 00:29:41,640 Speaker 2: the mill for work. And it really it gets the 511 00:29:41,640 --> 00:29:44,920 Speaker 2: point across. Like, you know, this was from nineteen twelve, 512 00:29:45,600 --> 00:29:47,800 Speaker 2: and if child labor was still an issue to date, 513 00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:51,040 Speaker 2: you could run it today. It just really just captured 514 00:29:51,080 --> 00:29:52,560 Speaker 2: what the problem was. 515 00:29:53,440 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 3: Yeah, and this was a time, you know, we talked 516 00:29:55,640 --> 00:29:59,719 Speaker 3: about the in France, you know, when the one political 517 00:29:59,800 --> 00:30:02,040 Speaker 3: card this was put in jail for six months. In 518 00:30:02,040 --> 00:30:04,920 Speaker 3: America at this point there were limits on freedom of speech. 519 00:30:05,920 --> 00:30:08,840 Speaker 3: So in nineteen seventeen that artists who drew that was 520 00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:16,320 Speaker 3: targeted by the freshly passed Espionage Act, which was part 521 00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:18,880 Speaker 3: of which was an attempt to silence critics of US 522 00:30:18,920 --> 00:30:21,920 Speaker 3: going into World War One, and they almost did put 523 00:30:21,960 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 3: him in prison for a cartoon called having Their Fling. 524 00:30:25,600 --> 00:30:28,520 Speaker 3: And this is a pretty brutal one too, and it 525 00:30:28,560 --> 00:30:34,280 Speaker 3: showed the like editors, capitalist politicians, and preachers like cheering 526 00:30:34,880 --> 00:30:37,160 Speaker 3: entry into an orgy of death. 527 00:30:37,240 --> 00:30:41,280 Speaker 2: Basically, Yeah, that one hits as well for sure. Speaking 528 00:30:41,360 --> 00:30:45,040 Speaker 2: of world wars, World War two was a big kind 529 00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,880 Speaker 2: of a accelerator of political cartoons because by this time 530 00:30:48,960 --> 00:30:53,000 Speaker 2: newspapers have really hit in the United States and around 531 00:30:53,040 --> 00:30:56,080 Speaker 2: the world. But there were a lot of newspapers in 532 00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,400 Speaker 2: the middle of the century, the twentieth century and so 533 00:30:59,440 --> 00:31:02,440 Speaker 2: World War two like produced a lot of fodder for 534 00:31:03,040 --> 00:31:06,640 Speaker 2: political cartoons. One of whom one of the I don't 535 00:31:06,640 --> 00:31:08,120 Speaker 2: know if he was one of the most famous at 536 00:31:08,120 --> 00:31:11,000 Speaker 2: the time, but today one of the most noteworthy was 537 00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,840 Speaker 2: Doctor Seuss. Well, I think we mentioned in our Doctor 538 00:31:13,840 --> 00:31:17,200 Speaker 2: Seu's episode was a political cartoonist for a little while 539 00:31:17,440 --> 00:31:19,280 Speaker 2: during World War one or two. 540 00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:23,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, of course, Theater Geisel. Yeah, we did talk about 541 00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:25,360 Speaker 3: this because some of the stuff he worked for a 542 00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:27,920 Speaker 3: New York newspaper called PM for I think two or 543 00:31:27,960 --> 00:31:30,880 Speaker 3: three years in the early forties, and it's, you know, 544 00:31:30,880 --> 00:31:33,800 Speaker 3: it looks like doctor SEUs stuff in his total signature style, 545 00:31:35,080 --> 00:31:38,520 Speaker 3: but he would would you like some of them would 546 00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:44,400 Speaker 3: be like against racist and discriminatory hiring practices and policies 547 00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:47,720 Speaker 3: that are hampering the war effort. But he also, and 548 00:31:47,760 --> 00:31:50,520 Speaker 3: we talked about this in the Sue's episode, you know, 549 00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:53,560 Speaker 3: many years later, was kind of called out for having 550 00:31:53,680 --> 00:31:57,040 Speaker 3: a lot of racist caricatures drawn in his in his work. 551 00:31:57,280 --> 00:32:00,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, especially there's one of Tojo, who ran Japan at 552 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,120 Speaker 2: the time during World War two, and in just the 553 00:32:05,120 --> 00:32:09,040 Speaker 2: most racist Japanese stereotype you can possibly imagine, but. 554 00:32:09,080 --> 00:32:12,040 Speaker 3: Doctor style, yeah, exactly. So. 555 00:32:12,520 --> 00:32:17,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, there was another prominent cartoonist that actually emerged from 556 00:32:17,120 --> 00:32:21,160 Speaker 2: World War Two was drawing editorial cartoons on the front 557 00:32:21,160 --> 00:32:23,880 Speaker 2: lines of World War Two. His name was Bill Malden. 558 00:32:24,680 --> 00:32:26,920 Speaker 2: I want to say, Maudlin's so bad, but it's Malden. 559 00:32:27,000 --> 00:32:27,520 Speaker 3: Yeah, me too. 560 00:32:27,840 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 2: And if you see pictures of him when he was 561 00:32:31,800 --> 00:32:34,680 Speaker 2: drawing these cartoons during World War Two, he looks like 562 00:32:35,000 --> 00:32:38,640 Speaker 2: a baby. He looks like the kid that necessity comes 563 00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:40,880 Speaker 2: and takes from his house to the mill in that 564 00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,160 Speaker 2: one nineteen twelve political cartoon. 565 00:32:43,400 --> 00:32:45,160 Speaker 3: Now I'm looking up a picture of him because I 566 00:32:45,200 --> 00:32:48,000 Speaker 3: didn't actually look up the artists, and yeah, he looks 567 00:32:48,000 --> 00:32:48,800 Speaker 3: like a child. 568 00:32:48,680 --> 00:32:51,120 Speaker 2: He really does. And he came up with two of 569 00:32:51,120 --> 00:32:57,200 Speaker 2: the most beloved characters recurring characters in the history of 570 00:32:57,240 --> 00:33:00,520 Speaker 2: political cartoons, in part because there's not really that many 571 00:33:00,600 --> 00:33:04,720 Speaker 2: recurring characters in political cartoons, right, But there were two 572 00:33:04,840 --> 00:33:07,960 Speaker 2: gis named Willy and Joe, and he just depicted their 573 00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:12,920 Speaker 2: life in the front lines humorously for the most part, 574 00:33:12,960 --> 00:33:14,880 Speaker 2: but sometimes kind of poignantly as well. 575 00:33:15,800 --> 00:33:18,560 Speaker 3: Yeah, and these a lot of times were just I 576 00:33:18,600 --> 00:33:21,280 Speaker 3: don't think we mentioned like, you know, sometimes it'll be 577 00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,520 Speaker 3: an image with a kind of like the back of 578 00:33:24,560 --> 00:33:27,479 Speaker 3: the New Yorker with those cartoons, that they'll have a caption, right, 579 00:33:29,120 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 3: my ideas, most of these had captions the Willy and 580 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:40,640 Speaker 3: Joe stuff, but not all political cartoons use words at all, 581 00:33:40,680 --> 00:33:43,360 Speaker 3: Sometimes very few words. Sometimes this word's just in the image, 582 00:33:43,400 --> 00:33:46,040 Speaker 3: like on a sign or you know, something like that. 583 00:33:46,120 --> 00:33:49,040 Speaker 3: But sometimes it's like a character saying something. 584 00:33:49,440 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 2: Yeah. There's one that I think really kind of stands 585 00:33:51,600 --> 00:33:56,000 Speaker 2: out of Bill Mauldin's that shows a GI returning from 586 00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:58,120 Speaker 2: World War Two. He's sitting in at a at a 587 00:33:58,160 --> 00:34:00,760 Speaker 2: table and he's being interviewed by the press, and there's 588 00:34:00,800 --> 00:34:04,160 Speaker 2: an Army pr man standing next to him and has 589 00:34:04,160 --> 00:34:06,960 Speaker 2: his arm around his shoulder, and he's speaking on behalf 590 00:34:07,000 --> 00:34:10,040 Speaker 2: of this GI and he says he thinks the food 591 00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:12,200 Speaker 2: over there was swell. He's glad to be home, but 592 00:34:12,280 --> 00:34:14,839 Speaker 2: he misses the excitement of battle. You may quote him, 593 00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:17,879 Speaker 2: and it's just kind of well, I don't know. I'll 594 00:34:17,920 --> 00:34:19,520 Speaker 2: leave it to you to decide what it means. 595 00:34:19,640 --> 00:34:22,719 Speaker 3: Right, Yeah, there's another one here that I'm looking at 596 00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:26,439 Speaker 3: that's Willy and Joe reading the papers of their new 597 00:34:27,600 --> 00:34:29,480 Speaker 3: a new soldier brought to the battalion, and the new 598 00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:32,360 Speaker 3: soldier is clearly like, you know, thirteen years old or something. 599 00:34:32,440 --> 00:34:35,440 Speaker 3: M H and Willy and Joe. He says, oh, that's okay. 600 00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:37,600 Speaker 3: The replacement center says, he comes from a long line 601 00:34:37,640 --> 00:34:38,400 Speaker 3: of infantrymen. 602 00:34:38,800 --> 00:34:41,439 Speaker 2: Yeah, his uniform is like hanging off of him. 603 00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, so clearly making a point about like sending children 604 00:34:45,040 --> 00:34:45,399 Speaker 3: to war. 605 00:34:46,000 --> 00:34:48,600 Speaker 2: There was another thing too, that was a recurring theme 606 00:34:48,640 --> 00:34:52,880 Speaker 2: in these in Malden's World War two cartoons, and that 607 00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:56,719 Speaker 2: is how important hearing from people back home was to 608 00:34:56,880 --> 00:35:01,520 Speaker 2: gis like getting male was a recurring throughout that. And 609 00:35:01,560 --> 00:35:04,480 Speaker 2: there was one that I saw that it was like 610 00:35:04,520 --> 00:35:06,840 Speaker 2: you were saying, there's no dialogue, there's no caption or 611 00:35:06,880 --> 00:35:09,520 Speaker 2: anything like that, but it's a soldier and he's sitting 612 00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:11,960 Speaker 2: there with like he's sitting down with his back against 613 00:35:12,000 --> 00:35:14,560 Speaker 2: a tree. He's holding his rifle up, but at his 614 00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:18,239 Speaker 2: feet is a bunch of packages that say do not 615 00:35:18,280 --> 00:35:21,280 Speaker 2: open until December twenty fifth, So like he's in battle 616 00:35:21,280 --> 00:35:24,839 Speaker 2: carrying around this package that he can't wait to open 617 00:35:24,920 --> 00:35:28,600 Speaker 2: until Christmas. It's like it's got a touch of humor 618 00:35:28,640 --> 00:35:30,400 Speaker 2: to it, but more than anything. It really struck me 619 00:35:30,440 --> 00:35:32,000 Speaker 2: as quite touching, you know. 620 00:35:32,960 --> 00:35:39,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, yeah, for sure. The one that artistically is like 621 00:35:39,080 --> 00:35:42,279 Speaker 3: I think one of the coolest ones was actually from 622 00:35:42,320 --> 00:35:46,040 Speaker 3: a German. I mean, I really hates saying this out loud. 623 00:35:46,320 --> 00:35:49,399 Speaker 3: It was from a Nazi and what was his name? 624 00:35:49,480 --> 00:35:53,239 Speaker 3: His name was Harld. He was a Norwegian Nazi named 625 00:35:53,239 --> 00:35:57,400 Speaker 3: Harold Domslash and in nineteen forty four he drew a 626 00:35:57,400 --> 00:36:01,880 Speaker 3: political cartoon. The caption reads, the USA shall save European 627 00:36:01,920 --> 00:36:05,880 Speaker 3: culture from destruction with what right? And it's a picture, 628 00:36:06,880 --> 00:36:11,320 Speaker 3: you know, sort of pointing out all the hypocrisies of America, 629 00:36:11,440 --> 00:36:14,920 Speaker 3: like you know, this this big winged, sort of multi arm, 630 00:36:15,000 --> 00:36:17,960 Speaker 3: multi leg beast made out of a drum, and it 631 00:36:18,239 --> 00:36:23,120 Speaker 3: has a Klansman head and holding a money bag and 632 00:36:23,320 --> 00:36:25,880 Speaker 3: there's a news hanging off. It's just crazy looking. It 633 00:36:25,880 --> 00:36:28,840 Speaker 3: looks like something like Pink Floyd would have used on 634 00:36:28,880 --> 00:36:29,600 Speaker 3: an album cover. 635 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:33,120 Speaker 2: Yeah, it is nuts. It's called culture Terror, but spelled 636 00:36:33,160 --> 00:36:36,520 Speaker 2: with a K, and I think terror is spelled differently too, 637 00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:37,799 Speaker 2: I guess in the Norwegian. 638 00:36:38,080 --> 00:36:40,400 Speaker 3: Well there's your band, then just call your band that 639 00:36:40,520 --> 00:36:41,759 Speaker 3: and use that as the album cover. 640 00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,600 Speaker 2: Culture ear. Yeah, that's a great idea halfway there, but 641 00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:47,880 Speaker 2: go check it out because it's it's striking as just 642 00:36:47,920 --> 00:36:52,640 Speaker 2: the art alone is striking, but that the nazis calling 643 00:36:52,680 --> 00:36:57,279 Speaker 2: out America for our own misdeeds misdeeds, great, thank you. 644 00:36:58,560 --> 00:37:01,640 Speaker 2: That was also carried on by some Americans too. There 645 00:37:01,719 --> 00:37:05,560 Speaker 2: was a black cartoonist named Jay Jackson who drew for 646 00:37:05,640 --> 00:37:09,160 Speaker 2: the Chicago Defender, which is a black newspaper. And during 647 00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:12,000 Speaker 2: World War Two, did you see the one of the 648 00:37:12,000 --> 00:37:17,560 Speaker 2: blind leading the blind? Yeah, I mean talk about striking. 649 00:37:17,600 --> 00:37:22,719 Speaker 2: So it's America. It's a figure representing America, and he's 650 00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:26,600 Speaker 2: leading a figure with the swastika, so he's representing Germany. 651 00:37:26,600 --> 00:37:29,200 Speaker 2: I think it even says Germany on the guy, and 652 00:37:29,239 --> 00:37:32,960 Speaker 2: they're both blind, and they're both wearing dark glasses and 653 00:37:33,040 --> 00:37:36,160 Speaker 2: on the lenses it says race hate. So what he's 654 00:37:36,160 --> 00:37:38,480 Speaker 2: saying is that, like you know, both of these countries 655 00:37:38,480 --> 00:37:41,719 Speaker 2: that are fighting this war for moral superiority are both 656 00:37:41,760 --> 00:37:46,719 Speaker 2: blinded by their hatred of different races. And it's one 657 00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:49,640 Speaker 2: of the better political cartoons I've ever seen. Again, not 658 00:37:49,800 --> 00:37:53,080 Speaker 2: funny like you were saying, but still yeah, just an 659 00:37:53,120 --> 00:37:54,360 Speaker 2: amazing point. 660 00:37:55,080 --> 00:37:58,960 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure, we should probably take our last break, right, 661 00:37:59,040 --> 00:38:00,799 Speaker 3: before the break, I want to make that they've been 662 00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:04,520 Speaker 3: giving out a Pulitzer Prize for editorial cartooning. They started 663 00:38:04,520 --> 00:38:08,400 Speaker 3: at nineteen twenty two, and Bill Mauldon won that Pulitzer 664 00:38:08,520 --> 00:38:10,680 Speaker 3: for his World War Two work. And we'll talk about 665 00:38:11,080 --> 00:38:13,960 Speaker 3: someone else who won several of those awards right after this. 666 00:38:27,000 --> 00:38:33,719 Speaker 4: Lately, I've been learning some stuff about insomnia or aluminia. 667 00:38:34,360 --> 00:38:39,200 Speaker 1: How about the one on borderlight disorder that are got 668 00:38:39,280 --> 00:38:40,000 Speaker 1: birth order? 669 00:38:40,880 --> 00:38:44,400 Speaker 5: That one be warm, but it was so nice I 670 00:38:44,719 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 5: learned this. Why except ebody, listen up, shop lead stop, 671 00:38:55,120 --> 00:39:00,920 Speaker 5: stop stop. 672 00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:02,279 Speaker 2: Okay, Chuck. I just want to point out I think 673 00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,680 Speaker 2: we said we weren't really going to describe images, right 674 00:39:06,200 --> 00:39:09,160 Speaker 2: well mine, yeah, we've been doing it pretty prolifically. I 675 00:39:09,200 --> 00:39:11,960 Speaker 2: hope it's going well. I can't tell all right no more, 676 00:39:12,840 --> 00:39:14,959 Speaker 2: so I think we should talk about a guy named 677 00:39:15,000 --> 00:39:19,560 Speaker 2: HERB Block or her Block was his pen name, cartoon name, 678 00:39:20,400 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 2: and he's considered probably the most important political cartoonist of 679 00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:29,000 Speaker 2: the entire twentieth century. He's got three Pulitzers for cartooning alone, 680 00:39:29,320 --> 00:39:32,719 Speaker 2: and an additional Pulitzer for public service that he got 681 00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:36,719 Speaker 2: for just excoriating Nixon over the Watergate scandal. 682 00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,200 Speaker 3: Yeah, I imagine if you're a political cartoonist during Watergate, 683 00:39:41,239 --> 00:39:42,759 Speaker 3: you're kind of licking your chops a bit. 684 00:39:42,920 --> 00:39:43,120 Speaker 2: Yeah. 685 00:39:43,480 --> 00:39:47,120 Speaker 3: Yeah, for sure. McCarthyism, Like he was really around during 686 00:39:47,120 --> 00:39:49,000 Speaker 3: a fraught time politically. 687 00:39:49,239 --> 00:39:52,319 Speaker 2: Yeah, he drew just Block alone drew more than one 688 00:39:52,360 --> 00:39:55,680 Speaker 2: hundred cartoons about Watergate between seventy two and seventy four. 689 00:39:56,000 --> 00:39:59,640 Speaker 2: And that's something that I think bears pointing out. Political 690 00:39:59,680 --> 00:40:02,759 Speaker 2: cartoon tunists are expected to draw a cartoon a day. 691 00:40:03,280 --> 00:40:05,680 Speaker 2: Like you didn't write an article every day, you didn't 692 00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:08,759 Speaker 2: go cover something. You drew a political cartoon five days 693 00:40:08,760 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 2: a week to run in the daily newspaper. 694 00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,000 Speaker 3: Yeah, and twenty five of them for Saturday and Sunday. 695 00:40:15,719 --> 00:40:19,480 Speaker 3: Right and Block Actually, I mean I talked about the 696 00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:22,560 Speaker 3: time that he was there. I mean it's actually pretty vast. 697 00:40:22,560 --> 00:40:25,080 Speaker 3: He was there from forty six to two thousand and one. Yeah, 698 00:40:25,200 --> 00:40:27,520 Speaker 3: so he got to cover quite a bit politically. He 699 00:40:27,560 --> 00:40:30,279 Speaker 3: coined the term McCarthyism. I think we talked about that 700 00:40:30,320 --> 00:40:35,800 Speaker 3: in the McCarthyism episode in nineteen fifty cartoon. He was definitely, 701 00:40:35,880 --> 00:40:37,160 Speaker 3: you know, on the on the left side of the 702 00:40:37,160 --> 00:40:41,960 Speaker 3: political spectrum because he would go after you know, environmental polluters, 703 00:40:43,480 --> 00:40:47,680 Speaker 3: in war, the immorality of war, the government, you know, 704 00:40:47,760 --> 00:40:52,800 Speaker 3: as a whole. And they have named since two thousand 705 00:40:52,840 --> 00:40:57,120 Speaker 3: and four the best editorial political cartoonists is named after him, 706 00:40:57,160 --> 00:40:58,920 Speaker 3: the herb Block Prize. 707 00:40:59,200 --> 00:41:01,719 Speaker 2: Yeah. And I went to see who some of the 708 00:41:02,840 --> 00:41:07,360 Speaker 2: recent candidates or winners were, and there's one that I noticed. 709 00:41:07,400 --> 00:41:10,120 Speaker 2: I was looking through current political cartoons and this guy 710 00:41:10,200 --> 00:41:14,040 Speaker 2: kept coming up, same as Pedro ex Molina, and he 711 00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:17,840 Speaker 2: draws for counterpoint. So he is super lefty. He was 712 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,440 Speaker 2: a twenty twenty four finalist for the her Block Prize. 713 00:41:20,800 --> 00:41:25,399 Speaker 2: But his cartoons are just on point. He's I think 714 00:41:25,600 --> 00:41:29,000 Speaker 2: probably the best working today of the younger generation. 715 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:30,120 Speaker 3: Oh cool. 716 00:41:30,640 --> 00:41:32,879 Speaker 2: One of the ones that I saw was there's an 717 00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:37,400 Speaker 2: old like an extension court outlet. You know, I have 718 00:41:37,480 --> 00:41:39,760 Speaker 2: like the two outlets that you can plug into. 719 00:41:40,080 --> 00:41:43,680 Speaker 3: Oh you sent me this one, right, yeah. 720 00:41:42,120 --> 00:41:44,719 Speaker 2: And it just looks old and worn and everything. And 721 00:41:44,880 --> 00:41:47,319 Speaker 2: one of the outlets says Biden and the other one 722 00:41:47,360 --> 00:41:49,960 Speaker 2: says Trump. And then and also in the picture is 723 00:41:50,000 --> 00:41:53,080 Speaker 2: an Apple charger and that says gen Z. They have 724 00:41:53,160 --> 00:41:57,160 Speaker 2: nowhere to no one, yeah, yeah, and it's just there's 725 00:41:57,280 --> 00:41:59,879 Speaker 2: no words aside from the names and the and gen 726 00:42:00,239 --> 00:42:04,120 Speaker 2: and like it just again really gets the point across. 727 00:42:04,160 --> 00:42:05,359 Speaker 2: But I like that guy's work. 728 00:42:06,080 --> 00:42:09,200 Speaker 3: Yeah. It also instead of saying jenc could have said 729 00:42:09,560 --> 00:42:11,040 Speaker 3: a lot of America. 730 00:42:11,040 --> 00:42:12,720 Speaker 2: Right right for sure. 731 00:42:14,239 --> 00:42:16,279 Speaker 3: So we should finish up by talking a bit about 732 00:42:16,360 --> 00:42:21,200 Speaker 3: Charlie Hebdoe. As promised early on, you mentioned that France 733 00:42:21,840 --> 00:42:25,560 Speaker 3: has been a hot bed for satire since the get go, 734 00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:32,240 Speaker 3: and the radical satirical newspaper Charlie Hebdo has been around 735 00:42:32,400 --> 00:42:34,840 Speaker 3: for a long long time, since nineteen sixty. Their original 736 00:42:34,920 --> 00:42:39,080 Speaker 3: motto was mean and nasty, and they made we probably 737 00:42:39,120 --> 00:42:41,239 Speaker 3: would not hear in the States unless you just are 738 00:42:41,280 --> 00:42:43,760 Speaker 3: sort of in the know, not known much about Charlie 739 00:42:43,760 --> 00:42:46,160 Speaker 3: Hebdo had it not been for a couple of tragic events. 740 00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:53,280 Speaker 3: On Halloween Day in twenty eleven, they published an issue 741 00:42:53,360 --> 00:42:57,720 Speaker 3: number one thousand and eleven they retitled instead of Charlie Hebdo, 742 00:42:57,800 --> 00:43:02,759 Speaker 3: they retitled the issue Charlie Hebdo for Sharia Law and 743 00:43:03,000 --> 00:43:06,319 Speaker 3: they were. It was a cover in response to the 744 00:43:06,400 --> 00:43:11,040 Speaker 3: Tunisian News, where an Islami's party had won parliamentary elections there, 745 00:43:11,160 --> 00:43:14,480 Speaker 3: and on the cover it featured a cartoon rendering of 746 00:43:14,520 --> 00:43:17,880 Speaker 3: the prophet Mohammad and the caption read one hundred lashes 747 00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:21,879 Speaker 3: if you do not die laughing. And in Islam, any 748 00:43:21,920 --> 00:43:26,759 Speaker 3: image of Mohammad is very much forbidden, much less you know, 749 00:43:26,880 --> 00:43:30,920 Speaker 3: a cartoon making fun of something. And violence ensued because 750 00:43:30,920 --> 00:43:31,200 Speaker 3: of this. 751 00:43:31,840 --> 00:43:36,279 Speaker 2: Yeah, I think in two thoy twelve, no, that same year, 752 00:43:36,280 --> 00:43:41,080 Speaker 2: twenty eleven, so within a couple months, the offices were firebombed. 753 00:43:41,719 --> 00:43:44,600 Speaker 2: No one was hurt, but in response, and I didn't 754 00:43:44,680 --> 00:43:47,560 Speaker 2: know this, I thought it was just that cover, that drawing, 755 00:43:47,600 --> 00:43:49,759 Speaker 2: which is you know, like you don't do that. It's 756 00:43:49,800 --> 00:43:54,560 Speaker 2: a violation of like a huge violation of Islamic custom 757 00:43:54,640 --> 00:43:57,240 Speaker 2: to make any kind of, like you said, picture of Muhammad, 758 00:43:57,520 --> 00:44:01,840 Speaker 2: let alone making a cartoon. But they they went even 759 00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:05,760 Speaker 2: further after the fire bombing, and they in twenty twelve 760 00:44:05,800 --> 00:44:10,720 Speaker 2: they published more cartoons, one of which was Mohammed naked 761 00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:14,680 Speaker 2: on all fours. And that actually, from what I can tell, 762 00:44:14,800 --> 00:44:18,880 Speaker 2: is what triggered the murders of a bunch of the 763 00:44:18,920 --> 00:44:21,800 Speaker 2: people who work at the offices in twenty fifteen. 764 00:44:22,800 --> 00:44:27,160 Speaker 3: Yeah, it was two men stormed into the offices murdered 765 00:44:27,200 --> 00:44:32,919 Speaker 3: twelve people. This was, you know, the biggest news. There's 766 00:44:32,960 --> 00:44:35,799 Speaker 3: a cat walking around outside my house right now that 767 00:44:35,880 --> 00:44:40,200 Speaker 3: I do not recognize. Very interesting. Sorry, just caught me 768 00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:40,640 Speaker 3: off guard. 769 00:44:40,719 --> 00:44:41,200 Speaker 2: Yeah it did. 770 00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:43,200 Speaker 3: I was like, did one of my cats get out? 771 00:44:43,200 --> 00:44:44,439 Speaker 3: It's like, nope, it's not one of my cats. 772 00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:45,000 Speaker 2: It's a burder. 773 00:44:45,239 --> 00:44:48,400 Speaker 3: Yeah, murdered twelve people. Probably not the best time to 774 00:44:48,400 --> 00:44:51,720 Speaker 3: mention that during the middle of this awful retelling, including 775 00:44:51,719 --> 00:44:56,560 Speaker 3: the editor of Charlie Hebdo for other cartoonists and also 776 00:44:56,560 --> 00:44:59,120 Speaker 3: went on to kill four Jewish people and then the 777 00:44:59,160 --> 00:45:00,759 Speaker 3: French police took them out. 778 00:45:01,760 --> 00:45:05,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, and so like immediately there were protests and marches 779 00:45:05,680 --> 00:45:08,759 Speaker 2: in France, like millions of people across the country, and 780 00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:12,759 Speaker 2: basically a meme was developed almost immediately. It was just 781 00:45:12,800 --> 00:45:16,000 Speaker 2: sweet Charlie and it means I am Charlie, and they 782 00:45:16,000 --> 00:45:20,120 Speaker 2: were saying like I'm standing up for freedom of expression, 783 00:45:20,280 --> 00:45:25,359 Speaker 2: freedom of speech, and that was pretty much the zeitgeist 784 00:45:25,760 --> 00:45:29,400 Speaker 2: across all of France, like everyone stood up and supported 785 00:45:29,520 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 2: Charlie Hebdo after that tragedy, and I saw chuck that 786 00:45:33,640 --> 00:45:36,239 Speaker 2: ten years on. The ten year anniversary just came and 787 00:45:36,280 --> 00:45:41,360 Speaker 2: went in this past January. They apparently people have changed 788 00:45:41,440 --> 00:45:45,920 Speaker 2: their opinions in some cases, just like thirty one percent 789 00:45:45,960 --> 00:45:49,680 Speaker 2: of people polled agreed with the idea that Charlie Hebdo 790 00:45:49,800 --> 00:45:54,440 Speaker 2: brought that on themselves, whereas that same the answer to 791 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,800 Speaker 2: that question would have probably been in the low single 792 00:45:56,840 --> 00:46:01,439 Speaker 2: digits right after the shit time. Yeah, I just thought 793 00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:04,760 Speaker 2: that was interesting. I mean, how different things can change 794 00:46:04,760 --> 00:46:05,680 Speaker 2: in ten years, you know. 795 00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,880 Speaker 3: Yeah, I mean in the wake of a tragedy like that. Yeah. 796 00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:11,840 Speaker 3: I'm not saying I agree one or the other. I 797 00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:15,319 Speaker 3: just I think a lot of times opinions change on 798 00:46:15,360 --> 00:46:17,360 Speaker 3: stuff like that over time for certain people. 799 00:46:17,600 --> 00:46:20,280 Speaker 2: Ten years is a long time these days. It didn't 800 00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:23,040 Speaker 2: used to be, but man, oh man, a lot can 801 00:46:23,080 --> 00:46:25,160 Speaker 2: happen in ten years. We've learned to pack it in. 802 00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:30,279 Speaker 3: So we mentioned early on that there's only twenty like 803 00:46:30,400 --> 00:46:34,759 Speaker 3: on staff major newspaper cartoonists. The reason for that, as 804 00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:38,359 Speaker 3: we all know, is newspapers are having a tough time. 805 00:46:38,480 --> 00:46:42,800 Speaker 3: Declining subscriptions. Mean they don't want to have further declining 806 00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:47,280 Speaker 3: subscriptions by angering readership on either side of the political 807 00:46:47,320 --> 00:46:50,640 Speaker 3: spectrum because people might cancel over something like that and 808 00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:52,759 Speaker 3: they just can't afford that anymore. So people are more 809 00:46:52,840 --> 00:46:57,879 Speaker 3: sensitive these days. They're sadly editors are not standing behind 810 00:46:57,920 --> 00:47:01,560 Speaker 3: their cartoonists like they used to. They flag something, they 811 00:47:01,760 --> 00:47:03,879 Speaker 3: you know, they'll pull it and the cartoonists may quit 812 00:47:04,000 --> 00:47:04,720 Speaker 3: or maybe fired. 813 00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,240 Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if people complain about a political cartoon, 814 00:47:08,239 --> 00:47:11,279 Speaker 2: it used to be like, hey, it's it's true. Now 815 00:47:11,320 --> 00:47:14,120 Speaker 2: it's like oh sorry, and then they print a retraction 816 00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:18,560 Speaker 2: and then fire the political cartoonists. That's new. That's that's 817 00:47:18,680 --> 00:47:24,360 Speaker 2: the way that the industry is changing. But it seems 818 00:47:24,400 --> 00:47:31,360 Speaker 2: to be pretty much relegated to newspapers and just some newspapers, 819 00:47:32,600 --> 00:47:36,120 Speaker 2: you know, like Mike Lukovich at the AJAC. He's one 820 00:47:36,160 --> 00:47:39,719 Speaker 2: of the premier editorial cartoonists still working today for a newspaper. 821 00:47:39,880 --> 00:47:42,160 Speaker 3: Man. He's been around for a long long time. 822 00:47:42,400 --> 00:47:45,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, and he doesn't pull punches, and I think that 823 00:47:45,320 --> 00:47:48,399 Speaker 2: AJAC is still behind him every single time. 824 00:47:48,560 --> 00:47:48,759 Speaker 3: Yeah. 825 00:47:49,000 --> 00:47:52,160 Speaker 2: So it's not it's not like it's going to happen, 826 00:47:52,560 --> 00:47:54,600 Speaker 2: you know, no matter what newspaper you work at, it 827 00:47:54,680 --> 00:47:57,560 Speaker 2: just depends on the usually the outlook of the publisher, right, 828 00:47:57,640 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 2: And if you offend the publisher, used to be like 829 00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,120 Speaker 2: the editors would talk them down, but the editors don't 830 00:48:03,120 --> 00:48:05,239 Speaker 2: do that anymore, and so you can get fired. And 831 00:48:05,280 --> 00:48:08,240 Speaker 2: there was a very well known political cartoonist, another Pulitzer 832 00:48:08,320 --> 00:48:12,799 Speaker 2: winner named Anne Telnay's And in twenty nineteen she kind 833 00:48:12,800 --> 00:48:15,360 Speaker 2: of saw the writing on the wall and she published 834 00:48:15,400 --> 00:48:18,960 Speaker 2: like a series or not a series as multi multipanel 835 00:48:19,640 --> 00:48:25,920 Speaker 2: cartoon that basically was an infographic explaining what political cartoonists do, 836 00:48:26,800 --> 00:48:30,040 Speaker 2: the danger that they're in right now in the United States, 837 00:48:30,200 --> 00:48:33,040 Speaker 2: and as far as like being canceled and fired, and 838 00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:37,239 Speaker 2: then what the problem, what the ultimate problem with that is, 839 00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:41,440 Speaker 2: And she essentially says, political cartoonists are the canary and 840 00:48:41,520 --> 00:48:45,040 Speaker 2: the coal mine. If we start getting fired for expressing 841 00:48:45,080 --> 00:48:49,480 Speaker 2: opinions and views that are legitimate because people don't want 842 00:48:49,520 --> 00:48:52,759 Speaker 2: to hear that, that is a big red flag that 843 00:48:52,840 --> 00:48:55,560 Speaker 2: freedom of expression is under attack in your country. And 844 00:48:55,600 --> 00:48:58,920 Speaker 2: she was saying that's basically happening right now. And she 845 00:48:59,120 --> 00:49:01,799 Speaker 2: ultimately quit just earlier this year. Right. 846 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,399 Speaker 3: Yeah, she had been at the Washington Post for seventeen 847 00:49:05,520 --> 00:49:10,400 Speaker 3: years and quit because her editors there at the Post 848 00:49:10,440 --> 00:49:14,600 Speaker 3: refused to publish one of her cartoons based only on 849 00:49:15,680 --> 00:49:19,400 Speaker 3: her opinion. So it's, uh, yeah, that's kind of the 850 00:49:19,400 --> 00:49:21,400 Speaker 3: state of things at the Washington Post these days. 851 00:49:22,000 --> 00:49:26,000 Speaker 2: Yes, So, and across a lot of newspapers. Like again, 852 00:49:26,040 --> 00:49:34,080 Speaker 2: they're like an endangered breed, but that's specifically at newspapers. 853 00:49:34,160 --> 00:49:38,279 Speaker 2: It's still a very thriving art form, and you can 854 00:49:38,320 --> 00:49:41,960 Speaker 2: make a really good case that it's still around and 855 00:49:42,200 --> 00:49:44,920 Speaker 2: very popular. It's just transmuted in a lot of cases 856 00:49:44,960 --> 00:49:47,880 Speaker 2: to memes. I'll give you an example of when I 857 00:49:47,880 --> 00:49:52,000 Speaker 2: saw recently, you know that this is fine, the dog 858 00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:54,839 Speaker 2: sitting at the table drinking coffee in a room that's 859 00:49:54,880 --> 00:49:57,120 Speaker 2: on fire. I haven't see this is fine. 860 00:49:57,440 --> 00:49:59,439 Speaker 3: I don't see any memes though it's. 861 00:49:59,360 --> 00:50:02,400 Speaker 2: A great meme. But in one panel, he's just sitting 862 00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:04,960 Speaker 2: there and it says arson is free speech now. And 863 00:50:05,000 --> 00:50:07,040 Speaker 2: then the next panel it's him just sitting there drinking 864 00:50:07,080 --> 00:50:09,080 Speaker 2: the coffee in the room on fire and says this 865 00:50:09,120 --> 00:50:13,320 Speaker 2: is fine, and that I mean, it's a meme. Somebody 866 00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,279 Speaker 2: put it together, probably using a meme generator. But you 867 00:50:16,360 --> 00:50:18,880 Speaker 2: can also make a case that that is in a 868 00:50:18,920 --> 00:50:22,600 Speaker 2: lot of ways, it bears a stronger resemblance to political cartoons. 869 00:50:22,800 --> 00:50:25,200 Speaker 2: All right, you got anything else? 870 00:50:25,400 --> 00:50:26,279 Speaker 3: I got nothing else? 871 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:30,319 Speaker 2: Okay, Well, since we got nothing else, that means this 872 00:50:30,400 --> 00:50:33,320 Speaker 2: episode is done and it's time for listener mail. 873 00:50:36,640 --> 00:50:39,640 Speaker 3: This one's scrabble centric. Before I read this email, we 874 00:50:39,719 --> 00:50:43,399 Speaker 3: do have to acknowledge that we failed to mention the 875 00:50:43,640 --> 00:50:48,919 Speaker 3: ultimate Simpson's reference, of course, of quigibow, very very old 876 00:50:48,960 --> 00:50:52,719 Speaker 3: Simpson's reference from an early episode where Bart Simpson I 877 00:50:52,719 --> 00:50:56,000 Speaker 3: think it was Bart, argued for quijibow, which was just 878 00:50:56,120 --> 00:50:59,160 Speaker 3: the letters as they appeared on his rack was a word, 879 00:50:59,239 --> 00:51:02,319 Speaker 3: right right, Okay, So sorry about the quiji bow we 880 00:51:02,520 --> 00:51:04,759 Speaker 3: heard from a lot of people, but this is a 881 00:51:04,800 --> 00:51:07,200 Speaker 3: different email. Hey, guys, the real reason I'm writing is 882 00:51:07,239 --> 00:51:09,240 Speaker 3: tell you about the role of scrabble in my family's history. 883 00:51:09,560 --> 00:51:11,759 Speaker 3: My parents love to play scrabble, and my dad, being 884 00:51:11,760 --> 00:51:14,400 Speaker 3: the kind of guy he was, made a table to 885 00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:17,279 Speaker 3: record their stats by hand, using a ruler about to 886 00:51:17,320 --> 00:51:20,000 Speaker 3: make sure the lines are straight and the columns are 887 00:51:20,080 --> 00:51:22,640 Speaker 3: each the same width from page to page. Ended up 888 00:51:22,719 --> 00:51:26,040 Speaker 3: using five pages or so of very thin lines. He 889 00:51:26,040 --> 00:51:28,360 Speaker 3: would record the date in the game that was played, 890 00:51:28,400 --> 00:51:32,399 Speaker 3: in the final score, and my mom's final score. Two 891 00:51:32,400 --> 00:51:34,399 Speaker 3: more columns in which he would track a running total 892 00:51:34,440 --> 00:51:37,319 Speaker 3: of mini games of how many games each of them 893 00:51:37,320 --> 00:51:40,279 Speaker 3: had won. Besides being a perfect example of my dad, 894 00:51:40,280 --> 00:51:43,239 Speaker 3: there's also interesting thing about the dates. There are three 895 00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:46,000 Speaker 3: periods when they begin to play all the time, following 896 00:51:46,040 --> 00:51:49,280 Speaker 3: periods for which they hardly played it all in between 897 00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,680 Speaker 3: each my two siblings and I were born. That's pretty funny. 898 00:51:53,680 --> 00:51:55,920 Speaker 3: They're like, why did things drop off for two years? 899 00:51:57,280 --> 00:51:58,480 Speaker 2: We had other things to do. 900 00:51:58,640 --> 00:52:02,160 Speaker 3: Exactly when my dad died, I inherited their scrabble board 901 00:52:02,160 --> 00:52:05,359 Speaker 3: and their record was in it. And this is one 902 00:52:05,360 --> 00:52:09,479 Speaker 3: of my most precious possessions. That is from Reverend Eric. 903 00:52:10,600 --> 00:52:12,720 Speaker 2: That's a sweet email. Thanks a lot, Reverend. 904 00:52:12,880 --> 00:52:13,319 Speaker 3: That's great. 905 00:52:13,800 --> 00:52:16,840 Speaker 2: I can just imagine man making your own columns and 906 00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,439 Speaker 2: rows with the ruler. That's dedication right there. 907 00:52:19,640 --> 00:52:21,520 Speaker 3: I know those dads. I'm not that dad, and my 908 00:52:21,600 --> 00:52:23,360 Speaker 3: dad wasn't that dad, but I've known those dads. 909 00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:26,759 Speaker 2: Yep. If you want to be like Reverend Eric, can 910 00:52:26,800 --> 00:52:29,239 Speaker 2: send us an email that tells us how sweet your 911 00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:31,879 Speaker 2: parents were. We love those kinds of things. You can 912 00:52:31,960 --> 00:52:37,960 Speaker 2: send it off to Stuff Podcasts at iHeartRadio dot com. 913 00:52:38,120 --> 00:52:41,000 Speaker 3: Stuff you Should Know is a production of iHeartRadio. For 914 00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:45,279 Speaker 3: more podcasts my heart Radio, visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, 915 00:52:45,400 --> 00:52:47,240 Speaker 3: or wherever you listen to your favorite shows.