WEBVTT - Hong Kong’s ‘Mainlandization’ Remaking World City 0:00:02.560 --> 0:00:07.119 You're listening to Asia Centric from Bloomberg Intelligence, the podcast 0:00:07.160 --> 0:00:10.319 that pulls back the curtain non global business so you 0:00:10.400 --> 0:00:14.640 can invest better across the Pacific realm. I'm Tom mccorbett 0:00:14.680 --> 0:00:15.680 in Hong Kong. 0:00:15.800 --> 0:00:19.079 And I'm John Lee. Hong Kong's so called brain drain 0:00:19.280 --> 0:00:22.560 is turning back into a brain gain as thousands of 0:00:22.600 --> 0:00:25.680 knowledge workers return to the city after fleeing COVID. 0:00:25.800 --> 0:00:28.880 But who's coming back and from where could have a 0:00:29.040 --> 0:00:33.839 big impact on the city's economy, its culture, and its future. 0:00:34.440 --> 0:00:38.159 Hong Kong's changing workforce is driven largely by twenty and 0:00:38.280 --> 0:00:42.400 thirty somethings flocking over the border from mainland China, and 0:00:42.440 --> 0:00:45.159 the reasons why they choose Hong Kong might surprise you. 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:49.400 What's driving the change and how might Hong Kong's job 0:00:49.479 --> 0:00:53.480 market look in twenty thirty and beyond. For this, let's 0:00:53.479 --> 0:00:58.760 bring in three experts. Mark Tibbett's managing director at Page Group. 0:00:58.520 --> 0:01:03.120 In Hong Kong, Francis Senior analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence. 0:01:02.720 --> 0:01:07.640 And Peter Lau, Associate analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence. Gentlemen, welcome, 0:01:08.200 --> 0:01:09.240 thank you, thank you. 0:01:09.319 --> 0:01:12.760 Here Mark, what strikes you most about the job market's 0:01:12.800 --> 0:01:14.200 most notable changes. 0:01:16.400 --> 0:01:19.959 I think there was a pretty seismic movement of people 0:01:20.120 --> 0:01:23.280 through the last few years. A lot of people left 0:01:23.319 --> 0:01:26.520 Hong Kong for various reasons, and as you guys just 0:01:26.680 --> 0:01:29.680 rightly pointed out, there's a flow of talent coming back 0:01:29.720 --> 0:01:34.280 into the city and the demographic has certainly changed. I 0:01:34.280 --> 0:01:37.600 think the most notable shift for me, certainly as an 0:01:37.600 --> 0:01:41.480 expatche in Hong Kong, was a large volume of pretty seasoned, 0:01:41.520 --> 0:01:47.199 pretty senior overseas workers, business leaders, experts, et cetera moved 0:01:47.200 --> 0:01:49.920 out during the COVID period, and many of those moved 0:01:49.960 --> 0:01:51.160 out permanently. 0:01:51.400 --> 0:01:54.120 And so that's at the stage for some big changes 0:01:54.200 --> 0:01:57.520 or at least a reset, if you will, for Hong 0:01:57.640 --> 0:02:01.400 Kong's job market. Was it just the obvious factors, was 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:04.200 it COVID or were there other contributing factors. 0:02:05.120 --> 0:02:09.520 I think the overall sort of economic political environment faced 0:02:09.560 --> 0:02:12.280 some changes through that same period, So I certainly think 0:02:12.320 --> 0:02:16.000 that there was a proportion of movement driven by that, 0:02:16.120 --> 0:02:18.560 certainly amongst the more local community. But I do think 0:02:18.560 --> 0:02:22.239 the expatriot community were really pushed out by COVID policies, 0:02:22.960 --> 0:02:25.800 not a huge amount more maybe some economic draw but 0:02:25.919 --> 0:02:30.400 largely COVID policies from an international standpoint and mark some of. 0:02:30.320 --> 0:02:34.079 These workers are coming back to Hong Kong. Are they 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:36.480 the expats or are they more sort of like Mainlanders 0:02:36.600 --> 0:02:38.160 coming to Hong Kong for the first time. 0:02:38.680 --> 0:02:41.880 Obviously, there's definitely an influx of people from mainland China. 0:02:42.960 --> 0:02:47.200 The top talent visa schemes have appealed to people in 0:02:47.280 --> 0:02:49.920 mainland China in large numbers, and we're certainly seeing that 0:02:49.960 --> 0:02:53.080 from the other side of the border professionals that we 0:02:53.160 --> 0:02:56.160 see in China who are applying for the various schemes. 0:02:56.240 --> 0:02:59.880 So there absolutely is that, but there is also a 0:03:00.080 --> 0:03:03.560 flow back of talent from other markets within the Asia 0:03:03.560 --> 0:03:06.440 Pacific region, and also we're starting to see more now 0:03:06.480 --> 0:03:09.200 from further Afield Mark Tibberts. 0:03:09.200 --> 0:03:13.040 In every great human migration, there is a component of 0:03:13.400 --> 0:03:17.320 running from something and then running to something. The writer 0:03:17.440 --> 0:03:20.720 Paul Through likes to say that travel is equal parts 0:03:20.800 --> 0:03:24.400 flight and pursuit. How do you see that dynamic as 0:03:24.440 --> 0:03:27.600 it applies to what's happening with mainland China and Hong 0:03:27.720 --> 0:03:28.480 Kong right now. 0:03:28.639 --> 0:03:31.840 I think primarily they're running to Hong Kong for the 0:03:32.040 --> 0:03:36.600 advanced economy, the opportunities the education, maybe the healthcare system, 0:03:36.920 --> 0:03:41.480 access to international markets. I think largely following the carrot, 0:03:41.680 --> 0:03:42.760 so to speak. 0:03:43.120 --> 0:03:45.160 Mark, There's been a lot of discussion of how Hong 0:03:45.280 --> 0:03:48.200 Kong is becoming much more integrated with China. Some have 0:03:48.320 --> 0:03:53.360 caught it the mainlandization of Hong Kong. When you recruit 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:57.680 people for Hong Kong, is Mandarin as a language becoming 0:03:57.760 --> 0:03:59.240 much more important. 0:04:00.320 --> 0:04:02.920 As a language is certainly more important in Hong Kong 0:04:03.240 --> 0:04:05.520 now than it ever was. I think that's actually been 0:04:05.560 --> 0:04:09.040 a process that was happening long before COVID. Certainly within 0:04:09.080 --> 0:04:12.400 the education system, we saw Mandarin becoming a much more 0:04:12.400 --> 0:04:16.200 dominant language. Obviously, it stands to reason that if more 0:04:16.240 --> 0:04:18.840 people are coming into Hong Kong from mainland China, then 0:04:19.000 --> 0:04:21.600 Mandarin is going to be spoken and heard a lot more. 0:04:21.720 --> 0:04:24.400 I think we'd all agree that you do at the 0:04:24.440 --> 0:04:25.719 moment in Hong Kong, for sure. 0:04:26.640 --> 0:04:30.919 Francis Chan, senior analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence. You recently published 0:04:30.960 --> 0:04:34.800 a piece of research that was quite widely read on 0:04:34.839 --> 0:04:37.839 the Bloomberg terminal about this very subject. Talk a little 0:04:37.839 --> 0:04:42.440 bit about what your key findings were and the conclusions 0:04:42.720 --> 0:04:44.040 that you drew from. 0:04:43.839 --> 0:04:48.320 That well, I think the first findings from our research 0:04:48.480 --> 0:04:52.200 is minenntization. As we discussed earlier, and more and more 0:04:52.279 --> 0:04:55.279 Mainlan talents are coming to Hong Kong for different reasons, 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:58.400 hopefully for poor factors of the city, and that's very 0:04:58.480 --> 0:05:03.360 evident in the governments saratistics the visa information. Ninety four 0:05:03.480 --> 0:05:06.880 ninety five percent of the latest top Past Talent program 0:05:07.320 --> 0:05:11.200 released in December twenty twenty two applied by the mainland 0:05:11.240 --> 0:05:14.480 talents and twenty two thousand of them have been approved 0:05:14.560 --> 0:05:17.840 in terms of applications. And if we look for other 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.000 channels of visa application to Hong Kong, they are also 0:05:21.040 --> 0:05:26.000 predominantly occupied by talents from mainland China, and about only 0:05:26.040 --> 0:05:29.880 eight thousand of other talents have been getting visas from 0:05:29.920 --> 0:05:33.080 Hong Kong. But that will really spread across different Western 0:05:33.120 --> 0:05:36.000 countries or sofeast Asian countries. I would say seventy to 0:05:36.000 --> 0:05:38.400 eighty percent of the visa application we'll be coming from 0:05:38.440 --> 0:05:38.880 the North. 0:05:39.680 --> 0:05:41.960 And Francis Chan, let's talk a little bit about the 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:46.360 demographics of those people from the north, from mainland China 0:05:46.600 --> 0:05:50.200 coming into Hong Kong. Who are they, what's the age range, 0:05:50.200 --> 0:05:54.480 their background, who is it in mainland China broadly speaking 0:05:54.520 --> 0:05:57.040 that has found attraction to Hong Kong. 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:00.880 Well, they could be a wing from the age of 0:06:01.080 --> 0:06:02.760 twenty to forty, mostly so. 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:06.960 Mostly younger adults, early career professionals. 0:06:06.120 --> 0:06:09.960 Or or mid age professionals. And if you take a 0:06:09.960 --> 0:06:13.360 look of the professions of these applicants coming to Hong Kong, 0:06:13.760 --> 0:06:17.960 you find that finance is one of the biggest industry 0:06:18.000 --> 0:06:23.640 attracting talents from the North, followed by maybe academic education industry. 0:06:23.839 --> 0:06:26.520 They may be coming to Hong Kong as professors or 0:06:26.560 --> 0:06:29.000 do R and D in Hong Kong working in different 0:06:29.160 --> 0:06:33.920 educational institutions. And two other segments which is not as prominent, 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.880 but they are also significant. It will be commerce and 0:06:36.920 --> 0:06:40.960 trade and information technology. Of course, if you talk about 0:06:40.960 --> 0:06:43.760 the biggest pool of talents, it will be for finance 0:06:43.800 --> 0:06:44.840 and academics. 0:06:45.720 --> 0:06:49.120 I've noticed Mark Tibbetts from Page Group sitting here quietly 0:06:49.160 --> 0:06:52.040 as you were talking. Francis nodding his head, Marco head 0:06:52.040 --> 0:06:54.120 and way in, Yeah. 0:06:54.200 --> 0:06:57.960 I think absolutely right. The largest group of migrants we're 0:06:58.040 --> 0:07:02.320 seeing is that ex executive workforce that maybe the junior 0:07:02.360 --> 0:07:07.440 aspirational executive people with young families and big financial commitments, 0:07:07.520 --> 0:07:10.520 and again I do think that speaks to the economic 0:07:10.600 --> 0:07:14.200 pull of the city. I largely agree with the intelligence 0:07:14.240 --> 0:07:15.800 that France has just mentioned. 0:07:16.240 --> 0:07:20.360 Mark and Francis. You know, Hong Kong invariably always gets 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:24.840 compared to Singapore if both cities vie for being Asia's 0:07:24.880 --> 0:07:29.280 financial capital. What's happening with this race like Mark? From 0:07:29.280 --> 0:07:31.960 your point of view, is Singapore gaining the upper hand 0:07:32.160 --> 0:07:33.880 or you think it's still too early? 0:07:35.120 --> 0:07:38.000 Well, I just personally think that Hong Kong and Singapore 0:07:38.040 --> 0:07:41.560 are two different places and have two different roles in 0:07:41.600 --> 0:07:45.160 the sort of economic food chain of the region. I 0:07:45.240 --> 0:07:48.560 just don't think that Singapore can supplant Hong Kong in 0:07:48.600 --> 0:07:52.920 its location, in its strategic importance for Greater China, and 0:07:53.440 --> 0:07:56.760 Hong Kong needs to really focus on that as its 0:07:56.880 --> 0:08:00.880 sort of primary role, primary objective as a conduit for 0:08:01.000 --> 0:08:06.280 money for goods, trade for people, talent, etc. Into China 0:08:06.360 --> 0:08:09.400 and out of China. And if we focus on our 0:08:09.440 --> 0:08:12.080 strengths in Hong Kong, then I personally think Hong Kong 0:08:12.160 --> 0:08:14.600 stands alone for all of its sort of assets and 0:08:14.640 --> 0:08:18.240 attributes in that regard. I think Singapore's equally in a 0:08:18.280 --> 0:08:23.720 really strategic location for a lot more economies, and largely speaking, 0:08:23.720 --> 0:08:27.080 I think that's going to drive Singapore's longer term success. 0:08:27.440 --> 0:08:32.760 In Francis Chan, some cynics have written off Hong Kong already, 0:08:32.880 --> 0:08:35.760 but are they too quick to have written its epitheph 0:08:35.920 --> 0:08:38.440 sort of speak dog tailing off of Marx comments. 0:08:39.440 --> 0:08:42.480 I think for Hong Kong's future or Hong Kore's prospects, 0:08:42.520 --> 0:08:46.559 it relies most heavily on China's prospects from this point onwards, 0:08:46.840 --> 0:08:50.000 both as a financial center or a business hob in 0:08:50.040 --> 0:08:53.679 the Asia specific area. If you talk about its status 0:08:53.720 --> 0:08:58.079 as the financial hop solely focusing on copy financing functions, 0:08:58.440 --> 0:09:01.280 Hong Kong as of now is the far ahead of Singapore, 0:09:01.760 --> 0:09:04.560 not because we are doing better, but we are the 0:09:04.679 --> 0:09:09.760 offshore financial hop of mainland China or the PLC Frans's like. 0:09:09.840 --> 0:09:12.440 Sitting in Hong Kong, you do get this warp sense 0:09:12.480 --> 0:09:14.640 that you know, finance is the center of the universe, 0:09:15.000 --> 0:09:17.720 but there's actually other industries that are actually more important 0:09:17.760 --> 0:09:21.200 than finance. Technology. For a start, when I got to Singapore, 0:09:21.240 --> 0:09:23.360 I noticed that a lot of the technology companies I'm 0:09:23.360 --> 0:09:27.760 talking Apple, Google, Alphabet are located in Singapore. Is it 0:09:27.880 --> 0:09:30.760 arguable that maybe technology and you know, other M and 0:09:30.760 --> 0:09:33.960 cis find Singapore more attractive, Well, I. 0:09:33.840 --> 0:09:36.400 Think your spot on. In fact, Singapore has a more 0:09:36.440 --> 0:09:42.199 diversified economy in terms of GDP contribution. Manufacturing including technology 0:09:42.240 --> 0:09:45.520 in fact, is the leading GDB contributor in twenty twenty two, 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.960 followed by wholesale trade including commodities trading than finance and 0:09:50.080 --> 0:09:54.040 insurance in Singapore. That's government statistics talk about. Hong Kong, 0:09:54.559 --> 0:09:58.160 Finance and insurance is the top GDB contributor with twenty 0:09:58.160 --> 0:10:03.040 tuber self GDP contribution yea, followed by public sectors also 0:10:03.080 --> 0:10:06.320 twenty one percent, i e. Government spending. Then you have 0:10:06.480 --> 0:10:10.040 maybe a property or important export as a support to 0:10:10.280 --> 0:10:13.600 the manufacturing centers in Southern China market. 0:10:13.640 --> 0:10:15.679 You want to weigh in on that. 0:10:15.679 --> 0:10:18.760 That's pretty consistent with my own personal view. And actually 0:10:18.800 --> 0:10:20.960 if you look at our business at Page Group, a 0:10:21.040 --> 0:10:24.680 similar proportion actually more comes from financial services in the 0:10:24.720 --> 0:10:28.840 region of thirty percent banking and insurance. It's just such 0:10:28.840 --> 0:10:31.240 a dominant space for us here. And I think again 0:10:31.280 --> 0:10:35.079 it's a strength that Hong Kong has that won't easily 0:10:35.200 --> 0:10:38.040 just drift off over. Of course, in a couple of years, yep. 0:10:38.800 --> 0:10:42.080 Mark during your career in this part of the world 0:10:42.120 --> 0:10:44.960 in Asia, you spent last of time in mainland China. 0:10:45.440 --> 0:10:50.040 You've watched Shenzen grow from a small town into a 0:10:50.160 --> 0:10:55.040 major tech hub. Do you see that tech component making 0:10:55.080 --> 0:10:57.760 its way any more into Hong Kong or do you 0:10:57.880 --> 0:11:00.880 think sheng Jen is going to remain the epicenter of 0:11:01.000 --> 0:11:01.600 China tech. 0:11:02.240 --> 0:11:04.520 Yeah, it's a really interesting point. I was actually there 0:11:04.559 --> 0:11:07.400 for a large chunk of that change, having really started 0:11:07.440 --> 0:11:11.360 moving our Southern China business into Shanzhen in two thousand 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:15.200 and nine and operating there right up until COVID kicked off. 0:11:15.400 --> 0:11:18.080 I saw a lot of those changes and the evolution 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.880 of that technology industry and in the Shenjan economy. And 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:25.280 I certainly think that the policy and if you look 0:11:25.280 --> 0:11:28.040 at the sort of the central government policy with regards 0:11:28.080 --> 0:11:30.440 to the Gredabay era in Hong Kong's role within that, 0:11:30.960 --> 0:11:33.360 it does seem to suggest that Hong Kong's got a 0:11:33.360 --> 0:11:36.560 bigger role to play. But you know, Shanzen is vast 0:11:36.640 --> 0:11:39.400 and Hong Kong's got limitations in terms of land and 0:11:39.480 --> 0:11:42.240 workforce as it is, so to get businesses of the 0:11:42.280 --> 0:11:45.679 scale that you've got in Shenzen, like the Huawei and ztees, 0:11:45.760 --> 0:11:48.760 the Djis and ten cents and so on, who have 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:53.360 so many thousands of people working for them. I don't 0:11:53.520 --> 0:11:57.440 think it's a competition. I think it's a collaboration that's 0:11:57.440 --> 0:11:59.720 probably going to see Hong Kong's role grow. 0:12:00.760 --> 0:12:04.360 Francis Chan, you just heard Mark Tibbett mention the Greater 0:12:04.480 --> 0:12:07.480 Bay Area. You have also written about the Greater Bay 0:12:07.520 --> 0:12:11.120 Area a considerable length. Talk a little bit about what 0:12:11.320 --> 0:12:16.480 lies ahead in China's vision for the Greater Bay Area 0:12:16.800 --> 0:12:22.840 Hong Kong, Juhai, Macau, Guangzhou, and what that's going to 0:12:22.960 --> 0:12:25.840 look like five or ten years from now, any thoughts. 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.040 First of all, Beijing is taking a Greater Bay Area 0:12:29.160 --> 0:12:32.800 as the locomotive for its economy, and this agenda has 0:12:32.840 --> 0:12:36.040 been set for about ten years. And this area you 0:12:36.040 --> 0:12:40.080 will expect a population of eighty six million with eleven 0:12:40.160 --> 0:12:43.160 cities as being had by the four major cities, the 0:12:43.200 --> 0:12:47.559 two offshore cities Hong Kong, Macau, together with Quanto Province capital, 0:12:47.720 --> 0:12:52.599 Kuangshu and the Special Administrative Region of Sinten. So this 0:12:52.800 --> 0:12:55.920 could be a powerhouse comparing to the Tokyo Bay Area, 0:12:56.240 --> 0:12:59.880 San Francisco's Bay Area, and finally in the New York'speto Poland Area. 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.640 And we're expecting this to contribute to more than one 0:13:03.720 --> 0:13:07.079 tenth of China's GDP. At the same time, it contains 0:13:07.120 --> 0:13:10.440 a lot of fast growing industries including technology as you 0:13:10.480 --> 0:13:14.760 said earlier, commerce and finance in Hong Kong, entertainment in Macau, 0:13:14.840 --> 0:13:18.839 conferencing in Hong Kong Macau, and with some backup manufacturing 0:13:18.840 --> 0:13:22.000 facilities in other smaller with the Bay area cities. So 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:24.760 we are very autimistic on the future of this area. 0:13:24.800 --> 0:13:29.160 And you mentioned eighty six million people, that's a quarter 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:33.720 of the US population in this quarter of Guangdong Province 0:13:33.840 --> 0:13:36.360 or what borders Guangdong Province. If you're talking about Hong 0:13:36.480 --> 0:13:39.880 Kong in terms of GDP or per capital GDP, is 0:13:39.920 --> 0:13:42.280 it not the wealthiest province in China already? 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:45.920 Well, if you talk about the mainland Chinese cities, we 0:13:45.960 --> 0:13:50.280 still have Faijing, Shanghai. Talk about the provincial level, Arejiang 0:13:50.440 --> 0:13:54.080 and Jiangsu. Those are all very rich regional localities with 0:13:54.240 --> 0:13:58.240 very high income capital. But obviously Kwangdong is among those 0:13:58.640 --> 0:14:03.479 high income provinces. Or administrative regions. Hong Kong Macau themselves 0:14:03.559 --> 0:14:08.160 are considered as offshore special administrative regions, and obviously they 0:14:08.200 --> 0:14:11.120 have a higher income than China's average as a whole. 0:14:11.559 --> 0:14:14.360 So if you put Hong Kong Macau together with the 0:14:14.360 --> 0:14:17.440 rest of the mainland cities in the Great Bay Area, yes, 0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:20.800 we will see it as the highest income group within 0:14:20.880 --> 0:14:22.000 the mainland China. 0:14:22.120 --> 0:14:25.160 And francis which companies benefit from the growth of the 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:26.120 Greater Bay Area. 0:14:26.880 --> 0:14:29.280 Well, first of all, we want to go for the 0:14:29.360 --> 0:14:33.560 robust finance sectors, and we identify two groups of financial 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.480 firms to gain most from the flows or the communicative 0:14:37.560 --> 0:14:40.960 wealth in the region. Foreign banks with great presence in 0:14:40.960 --> 0:14:44.560 the region, including hspecs, then the CHILDED and some of 0:14:44.600 --> 0:14:47.680 the Hong Kong domicile banks like Bank of East Asia, 0:14:47.840 --> 0:14:50.960 those could be gained a lot from those cross border flows. 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.720 Of course, we have the biggest banks in the country ICBC, 0:14:55.000 --> 0:14:58.840 Bank of China and China Construction Bank. They are presence 0:14:59.080 --> 0:15:01.360 both in the mainland cities in the Greater Bay Area 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.200 and also in Hong Kong Macau and they will also 0:15:04.360 --> 0:15:07.720 gain a lot from these flows. As Hongkong Macau get 0:15:07.800 --> 0:15:09.720 more integrated into the Greater Bay Area. 0:15:10.600 --> 0:15:13.200 Francis Chan Mark tibbets what do you see as far 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:17.800 as the breakdown of nationalities where the expands come from. 0:15:18.000 --> 0:15:22.680 Do you see mainland China being the primary source of 0:15:22.880 --> 0:15:25.880 expans to Hong Kong or do you see any of 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:32.440 the non China nations of generating an inflow in the future. 0:15:33.400 --> 0:15:37.000 I think that inflow from mainland China will absolutely be 0:15:37.120 --> 0:15:39.520 the dominant inflow of talent in the next couple of 0:15:39.600 --> 0:15:44.080 years and beyond that, primarily because Mandarin as a language 0:15:44.200 --> 0:15:47.840 is going to be so important in the business ecosystem 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:51.320 of Hong Kong. I definitely think that Hong Kong will 0:15:51.360 --> 0:15:55.960 have plenty of international elements to its market, but the 0:15:56.000 --> 0:15:59.880 talent coming in from let's say Europe or the US 0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:03.200 or South America, I think these will be at the 0:16:03.240 --> 0:16:08.160 more senior end, perhaps with the exception of the education need. 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.440 I think somebody spoke earlier about academic I've certainly heard 0:16:11.880 --> 0:16:13.800 recently that there has been a lot of influx of 0:16:13.960 --> 0:16:15.560 teachers from further afield. 0:16:16.280 --> 0:16:20.400 Do you see Mandarin as being the primary quote language 0:16:20.440 --> 0:16:23.720 of business in China and Hong Kong much as English 0:16:23.800 --> 0:16:25.560 as the language of business and much of the rest 0:16:25.560 --> 0:16:26.920 of the world. 0:16:26.680 --> 0:16:30.600 So increasingly so. I think anybody that is in Hong 0:16:30.680 --> 0:16:34.040 Kong in a customer facing role is largely required to 0:16:34.040 --> 0:16:38.120 be able to speak Mandarin and Cantonese. Absolutely. I think 0:16:38.120 --> 0:16:42.640 the exceptions lie more perhaps where it's a leadership role 0:16:42.720 --> 0:16:46.560 or more strategical, or maybe in more international markets where 0:16:46.760 --> 0:16:51.160 trade with China is concerned, that Mandarin's absolutely a prerequisite. 0:16:50.720 --> 0:16:53.640 And mark outside of the language requirement. What are the 0:16:53.680 --> 0:16:57.120 skills do employees want these days? Has anything changed over 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:57.960 the last few years. 0:17:00.000 --> 0:17:04.720 Technology has become so intertwined with every aspect of business, 0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:08.320 and every organization these days in some way is also 0:17:08.400 --> 0:17:11.960 a technology company aside from the core of what they do. 0:17:12.119 --> 0:17:16.359 So I think technical ability the ability to use various 0:17:16.400 --> 0:17:21.000 new technologies, whether that be even as simple as social media, 0:17:21.119 --> 0:17:24.239 from a relationship management standpoint, right through to actually being 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.159 able to write code and so on. I think technological 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:31.760 language and userability as well as spoken language is probably 0:17:31.800 --> 0:17:32.600 the next biggest thing. 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:36.680 Mark During your early days in Hong Kong and mainland China, 0:17:36.720 --> 0:17:40.440 could you have imagined the events of the past few 0:17:40.520 --> 0:17:44.720 years that have shaped the way the job market is today. 0:17:45.160 --> 0:17:47.320 Was it foreseeable. How did that strike you. 0:17:48.680 --> 0:17:50.280 I've been in and around Hong Kong pretty much all 0:17:50.320 --> 0:17:53.919 my life, I think pre nineteen ninety seven, it was 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:56.600 kind of hard to know much really, certainly as a 0:17:56.600 --> 0:17:59.720 young student as I was then, about what the future 0:17:59.800 --> 0:18:03.520 might look like. But having been back here for fifteen 0:18:03.600 --> 0:18:06.919 years and working on both sides of the border, a 0:18:06.960 --> 0:18:10.359 good decade spent helping to build our business in mainland China, 0:18:10.920 --> 0:18:15.360 I would say yes, economically speaking, commercially speaking, I think 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:18.920 the direction of travel has been more local than global, 0:18:19.480 --> 0:18:23.879 and more China centric than international in terms of the 0:18:23.920 --> 0:18:26.679 way I seen in Hong Kong developing and needing to 0:18:26.720 --> 0:18:28.440 be part of the bigger China strategy. 0:18:28.760 --> 0:18:32.560 You're listening to Asia Centric from Bloomberg Intelligence. By the way, 0:18:32.640 --> 0:18:35.440 if you like what you hear, and we hope you do, 0:18:35.920 --> 0:18:40.760 please rate us on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Google podcasts, or 0:18:40.800 --> 0:18:43.520 wherever you may be listening to us. Of course, more 0:18:43.560 --> 0:18:47.320 stars are better. Your feedback matters, and we love hearing 0:18:47.320 --> 0:18:51.399 from our listeners. And speaking of young people, we wanted 0:18:51.440 --> 0:18:55.320 to get the perspective of somebody in that age bracket. 0:18:55.440 --> 0:18:58.960 Peter Lao, Associate analyst with Bloomberg Intelligence. You were born 0:18:59.040 --> 0:19:01.679 in mainland China, you grew up in shin Jen, You 0:19:01.720 --> 0:19:04.840 came to Hong Kong during your high school years, you 0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:09.160 spent college here. You gave up your hooku, your mainland 0:19:09.240 --> 0:19:13.280 residency to come to Hong Kong as a permanent resident. 0:19:13.359 --> 0:19:16.240 Those are big decisions for somebody, especially early in life. 0:19:16.320 --> 0:19:18.159 Talk about how that came about. 0:19:18.760 --> 0:19:22.280 Well, I think it's not necessarily my decision. It's probably 0:19:22.359 --> 0:19:25.960 my parents' decision. Fair enough, there's a rationale behind. I 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:30.200 think they definitely look at Hong Kong's access to the 0:19:30.200 --> 0:19:34.840 international education or even markets. Right. For example, if you're 0:19:34.840 --> 0:19:36.760 your kid in China, you're going to go through a 0:19:36.800 --> 0:19:39.800 lot of exams gau Kau and you're probably only going 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:42.239 to land one of the top schools in China. But 0:19:42.440 --> 0:19:45.040 whereas you should do go through the Hong Kong education system. 0:19:45.359 --> 0:19:48.480 You can actually choose China, you can choose local universities 0:19:48.520 --> 0:19:51.000 in Hong Kong, you can go to UK, Australia US. 0:19:51.000 --> 0:19:53.119 So it opened up options for really, that's. 0:19:52.960 --> 0:19:55.480 One I'm saying. So I think that's also a great 0:19:55.520 --> 0:19:58.439 pitch to a lot of the talents coming to Hong 0:19:58.520 --> 0:20:00.720 Kong because they can see that, oh I can plan 0:20:00.800 --> 0:20:03.040 for my kids, I can also plan for my job 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:06.440 and stuff like that. So I think that's what makes 0:20:06.480 --> 0:20:08.720 Hong Kong an interesting place to them. 0:20:09.240 --> 0:20:12.720 Are so many twenty somethings, thirty somethings, even forty somethings. 0:20:12.760 --> 0:20:16.320 Are they running front something or are they running to something? 0:20:16.359 --> 0:20:17.520 When they make that decision? 0:20:18.080 --> 0:20:21.800 Well, I think these Mainian talents they're runn into Hong Kong. 0:20:22.440 --> 0:20:25.760 I believe that first of all, they thought about their 0:20:25.800 --> 0:20:29.160 etche across a lot of the markets London, New York, 0:20:29.400 --> 0:20:32.640 Hong Kong and Singapore. Hong Kong and singapare only places 0:20:32.680 --> 0:20:36.959 that these Melian talents can actually leverage their language skills 0:20:37.040 --> 0:20:40.280 right right, fair enough Mandarin? Right, you got to know 0:20:40.359 --> 0:20:42.960 the language in order to do due diligence or you know, 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:45.760 do acrid research whatever in Hong Kong. And Hong Kong 0:20:45.800 --> 0:20:49.359 has that soil to unleash their potentials because we have 0:20:49.440 --> 0:20:52.640 so many businesses with China, and I think that's where 0:20:52.640 --> 0:20:54.520 they think, right, they see, oh, this is a place 0:20:54.560 --> 0:20:56.880 that I can actually build up a career. I can 0:20:57.400 --> 0:21:02.080 leverage my skills, and the tex is very favorable and 0:21:02.320 --> 0:21:05.680 the work environment here is also great compared to China. 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:08.159 We know about this kind of an evolution thing in 0:21:08.280 --> 0:21:10.520 China and in Chinese cons right. 0:21:10.640 --> 0:21:12.919 And Peter, do you see a lot of people in 0:21:12.960 --> 0:21:15.399 your situation staying in Hong Kong or do they use 0:21:15.440 --> 0:21:17.600 Hong Kong as a stepping stone to maybe go to 0:21:17.680 --> 0:21:20.480 New York, London, Singapore. 0:21:20.640 --> 0:21:21.639 That's a very good question. 0:21:21.880 --> 0:21:22.399 It depends. 0:21:22.440 --> 0:21:26.200 I think for finance, for banking, Hong Kong essentially gives 0:21:26.240 --> 0:21:28.439 them a great platform. I don't think a lot of 0:21:28.440 --> 0:21:31.560 them will love to, you know, jump around, because here 0:21:31.560 --> 0:21:33.359 you can get a lot of business done, right you go, 0:21:33.480 --> 0:21:36.840 China can get up deals done. But for technology, I 0:21:36.880 --> 0:21:40.280 would say that's a different situation because as we talked about, 0:21:40.480 --> 0:21:44.040 Hong Kong doesn't have that many tech companies headquartered here, 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:48.399 and I would say the evolution of technology here is 0:21:48.400 --> 0:21:50.880 a bit slow compared to other markets or other countries. 0:21:50.960 --> 0:21:54.600 So I think still for tech talent, they're gonna hesitate 0:21:54.640 --> 0:21:58.280 and they probably gonna think about where they go, and. 0:21:58.240 --> 0:22:01.960 Mostly Silicon Valley or sea or or maybe even bacticians in. 0:22:02.119 --> 0:22:05.600 Vacticians in exactly yeah, because those areas have the group 0:22:05.640 --> 0:22:08.119 at the circle, have the soil I would say, so, 0:22:08.160 --> 0:22:12.160 you know, meeting greets with people and to develop products together. 0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:15.879 Mark, you're a senior executive at the Page group, you 0:22:15.920 --> 0:22:19.720 must get this question all the time. When university grad 0:22:19.760 --> 0:22:21.560 speed to you, they must say, like, what should I 0:22:21.640 --> 0:22:24.159 do to get ahead? What advice to give them? 0:22:24.520 --> 0:22:26.640 I think anybody looking for a job, the first piece 0:22:26.680 --> 0:22:31.439 of advice that I would give is to network without shame. Okay, 0:22:31.640 --> 0:22:33.959 being an ex pat when you move somewhere new that 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:38.200 the key is to accept every invitation and go meet 0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:41.399 as many people as possible, and then you'll find your channel, 0:22:41.440 --> 0:22:44.080 you find your lane. And I think this is a 0:22:44.080 --> 0:22:47.120 big risk posting covid is that people are a little 0:22:47.119 --> 0:22:48.600 bit averse to meeting people. 0:22:49.480 --> 0:22:50.520 They're want Zoom meetings. 0:22:50.880 --> 0:22:53.080 Yeah, and you know that they want to be able 0:22:53.119 --> 0:22:57.240