1 00:00:01,320 --> 00:00:04,280 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff you missed in History Class, A production 2 00:00:04,400 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: of iHeartRadio, Hello and Happy Friday. I'm Holly Frye and 3 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 1: I'm Tracy V. 4 00:00:15,640 --> 00:00:16,080 Speaker 2: Wilson. 5 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:18,040 Speaker 1: Oh, and it's a new Year, so I wanted to 6 00:00:18,079 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: talk about day planners and all. Yeah, when you sent 7 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:23,720 Speaker 1: me this out, Wine, I was like, what a great 8 00:00:23,800 --> 00:00:28,000 Speaker 1: New Year's Day episode topic. It was just fortuitous really 9 00:00:28,280 --> 00:00:30,360 Speaker 1: because as you know, I've talked about it so many times. 10 00:00:30,440 --> 00:00:33,560 Speaker 1: I love this. I love a fresh year. I love 11 00:00:33,920 --> 00:00:37,279 Speaker 1: starting out my planner. I love the idea of just 12 00:00:37,360 --> 00:00:41,479 Speaker 1: like starting fresh and going forth with new hope for 13 00:00:41,520 --> 00:00:43,560 Speaker 1: the year ahead. And it may or may not pay off, 14 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:47,920 Speaker 1: but that's how we do it. But also, this is 15 00:00:48,000 --> 00:00:50,640 Speaker 1: like a moment. I tend to be really like a messy, 16 00:00:51,479 --> 00:00:53,680 Speaker 1: you know, I have hands and so many pies that 17 00:00:53,720 --> 00:00:56,800 Speaker 1: it's like I can have a moment to freshly reorganize 18 00:00:56,840 --> 00:01:00,840 Speaker 1: my life, which I appreciate you had mentioned during the 19 00:01:00,880 --> 00:01:05,679 Speaker 1: show and before we started recording. The Farmer's Almanac, yeah, 20 00:01:05,760 --> 00:01:08,759 Speaker 1: which I didn't talk about in the episode almost because 21 00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:13,280 Speaker 1: it's so kind of prominent and still goes on. That 22 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,559 Speaker 1: started in eighteen eighteen in Lewiston, Maine, and it still 23 00:01:16,600 --> 00:01:20,440 Speaker 1: is put out every year. Obviously it's changed as all 24 00:01:20,440 --> 00:01:25,160 Speaker 1: of the others have to become an all encompassing reference 25 00:01:25,240 --> 00:01:29,160 Speaker 1: and delight kind of project. Yeah, I just felt I 26 00:01:29,200 --> 00:01:31,880 Speaker 1: was like, I think that's probably the one people in 27 00:01:31,920 --> 00:01:35,720 Speaker 1: the US at least probably have seen around on bookstore shelves, 28 00:01:35,720 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 1: and I feel like maybe an elementary school, it was 29 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:43,160 Speaker 1: one of the things that we would use to look 30 00:01:43,280 --> 00:01:47,920 Speaker 1: up very very basic facts in the library. Oh, I 31 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: don't recall doing the same, but that doesn't mean anything. Yeah, 32 00:01:52,240 --> 00:01:57,120 Speaker 1: and then you know discussions of weather, the weather predictions 33 00:01:57,120 --> 00:01:59,880 Speaker 1: for the year right where it turned out to be 34 00:02:00,120 --> 00:02:05,760 Speaker 1: a yeah, I really really We talked a little bit 35 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 1: about the book The Accidental Diarist by Molly McCarthy, and 36 00:02:08,560 --> 00:02:12,160 Speaker 1: I I there were some interesting facts in it that 37 00:02:12,200 --> 00:02:14,520 Speaker 1: I really loved. One was just a way that she 38 00:02:14,680 --> 00:02:19,320 Speaker 1: described that book that Aitkins put out, which was the 39 00:02:19,360 --> 00:02:22,040 Speaker 1: first Planner in the US that people were like, no, 40 00:02:22,160 --> 00:02:25,280 Speaker 1: thank you. And she had this great turn of phrase 41 00:02:25,280 --> 00:02:28,320 Speaker 1: where she said it quote ask users to account for 42 00:02:28,360 --> 00:02:31,240 Speaker 1: themselves as they accounted for their money. And I'm like, oh, 43 00:02:31,240 --> 00:02:36,119 Speaker 1: that's why nobody wanted to use it. But also that 44 00:02:36,440 --> 00:02:39,359 Speaker 1: whole thing to me is very interesting because the one 45 00:02:39,400 --> 00:02:41,360 Speaker 1: thing we didn't get into in the episode that I 46 00:02:41,400 --> 00:02:47,120 Speaker 1: wonder about is like, if that was brought over as 47 00:02:47,440 --> 00:02:51,440 Speaker 1: something that was very popular in Britain already, if that 48 00:02:51,639 --> 00:02:53,760 Speaker 1: was part of why it was rejected, It's like, we 49 00:02:53,840 --> 00:02:56,440 Speaker 1: don't need their ways, thank you. We're in the middle 50 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,720 Speaker 1: of trying to get away from those guys, yeah, which 51 00:02:59,720 --> 00:03:05,400 Speaker 1: is interesting. We also talked about Doddsley's book in the UK. 52 00:03:06,120 --> 00:03:09,640 Speaker 1: He was actually printing that because it got around some 53 00:03:09,800 --> 00:03:13,919 Speaker 1: of the publishing rules for almanacs, because not everyone was 54 00:03:13,960 --> 00:03:19,520 Speaker 1: allowed to print almanacs, and Doddsley was like, well, I'm 55 00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:21,520 Speaker 1: going to make it blank pages and there's just some 56 00:03:21,600 --> 00:03:24,200 Speaker 1: of that almanac stuff in here, but it's not an almanac. 57 00:03:24,360 --> 00:03:27,600 Speaker 1: And that's kind of how he got around it, and 58 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:29,280 Speaker 1: a lot of people did that for a long time. 59 00:03:30,040 --> 00:03:34,239 Speaker 1: But it's really really interesting. The other thing that happened 60 00:03:36,360 --> 00:03:38,560 Speaker 1: that got mentioned in her book, and I read about 61 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,480 Speaker 1: it in some other places, but I didn't put it 62 00:03:40,520 --> 00:03:43,280 Speaker 1: in the episode because it gets more into an interesting 63 00:03:43,320 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: sociological discussion. But it's not really like something you can 64 00:03:47,000 --> 00:03:50,960 Speaker 1: find historical fact on is that people or you can't 65 00:03:50,960 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: find historical fact but it's hard to like parse them 66 00:03:53,040 --> 00:03:57,760 Speaker 1: into a reasonable statement about reality is that people don't 67 00:03:57,880 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 1: use these things always the way they're intended. Like some 68 00:04:00,760 --> 00:04:04,560 Speaker 1: people will buy a calendar and then they just use 69 00:04:04,640 --> 00:04:07,160 Speaker 1: it like it's a blank sheet of paper. Or they 70 00:04:07,200 --> 00:04:11,720 Speaker 1: will use a calendar for multiple years because they're using 71 00:04:11,760 --> 00:04:15,800 Speaker 1: it in a different way than how the prompts of 72 00:04:15,840 --> 00:04:19,440 Speaker 1: it are laid out, and at that point, right it 73 00:04:19,560 --> 00:04:23,719 Speaker 1: just becomes its own thing. There's the variability that's possible 74 00:04:23,760 --> 00:04:26,600 Speaker 1: when you offer someone a largely blank book and say 75 00:04:27,400 --> 00:04:29,800 Speaker 1: use it how you need it is like it can 76 00:04:29,839 --> 00:04:35,880 Speaker 1: be anything. It's which I find kind of interesting. I 77 00:04:36,000 --> 00:04:40,120 Speaker 1: mentioned in the episode that we were gonna talk about 78 00:04:40,120 --> 00:04:43,720 Speaker 1: the fact that I had found mentions of other planners 79 00:04:43,760 --> 00:04:46,440 Speaker 1: that came up in other languages, but I couldn't track 80 00:04:46,480 --> 00:04:49,479 Speaker 1: them down, and I found I really really tried. I 81 00:04:49,600 --> 00:04:52,600 Speaker 1: found a mention on a site that admittedly is like 82 00:04:53,120 --> 00:04:56,800 Speaker 1: a company's website that makes short day planners. Yeah, that 83 00:04:56,920 --> 00:05:01,200 Speaker 1: was saying that it actually was an Italian invention in 84 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:05,320 Speaker 1: the sixteen fifties, which would have been after we see 85 00:05:05,360 --> 00:05:08,040 Speaker 1: some of these ones popping up. But I couldn't. There 86 00:05:08,120 --> 00:05:11,400 Speaker 1: was nothing attached to that claim in terms of like 87 00:05:12,120 --> 00:05:16,360 Speaker 1: who or where. I think they mentioned that it was 88 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,240 Speaker 1: in Bergamo, but it's not more specific than that, so 89 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:24,760 Speaker 1: it was a little bit tricky to pin down. I mean, 90 00:05:24,800 --> 00:05:29,240 Speaker 1: I think that as global society became more complex, as 91 00:05:29,360 --> 00:05:34,760 Speaker 1: various you know, industries started to form, and things got 92 00:05:35,080 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 1: less agrarian and more metropolitan in some places, it's only 93 00:05:38,400 --> 00:05:41,200 Speaker 1: natural that something to like organize things was going to 94 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,360 Speaker 1: come up. So I think it's entirely possible that things 95 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: were concurrently developing around the world. Are you a planner person? No. 96 00:05:51,560 --> 00:05:54,760 Speaker 1: I There are a number of things in my life 97 00:05:54,800 --> 00:05:57,400 Speaker 1: that I have established as a habit and then maintained 98 00:05:57,440 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: that habit for years. 99 00:06:00,400 --> 00:06:00,719 Speaker 2: Uh. 100 00:06:00,720 --> 00:06:06,920 Speaker 1: And I've never successfully done that with planners or diaries. Uh. 101 00:06:06,920 --> 00:06:10,400 Speaker 1: And I have just come to accept this about myself, 102 00:06:11,760 --> 00:06:15,800 Speaker 1: Like even I'm not in a write everyday habit right now, 103 00:06:15,839 --> 00:06:18,120 Speaker 1: but like even when I have been in a write 104 00:06:18,120 --> 00:06:23,279 Speaker 1: everyday habit, like for some reason writing it in a diary, 105 00:06:24,000 --> 00:06:27,080 Speaker 1: I've been something I could stick with. Uh. And there 106 00:06:27,080 --> 00:06:28,680 Speaker 1: have been a couple of times when I've like had 107 00:06:28,720 --> 00:06:31,159 Speaker 1: really good intentions with a planner and it has never 108 00:06:31,200 --> 00:06:35,560 Speaker 1: worked out. There was also one time before my husband 109 00:06:35,600 --> 00:06:38,880 Speaker 1: and I were married, but while we were living together 110 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:41,800 Speaker 1: and I was traveling a lot for work, and he 111 00:06:41,960 --> 00:06:45,640 Speaker 1: had various like weekends type commitments that he had, and 112 00:06:45,680 --> 00:06:47,400 Speaker 1: I was like, we should make we should have like 113 00:06:47,440 --> 00:06:52,280 Speaker 1: a physical shared calendar that we can keep up with 114 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: all of this stuff on And that lasted maybe a 115 00:06:59,080 --> 00:07:02,000 Speaker 1: couple of months, and then we just had this calendar 116 00:07:02,279 --> 00:07:05,640 Speaker 1: that was turned to the wrong month and never updated 117 00:07:05,680 --> 00:07:09,640 Speaker 1: with our stuff on it. It just I don't know, no, 118 00:07:10,000 --> 00:07:13,240 Speaker 1: I know this exact dance because I'm not always. Sometimes 119 00:07:13,240 --> 00:07:15,000 Speaker 1: that thing gets me through the whole year, and other 120 00:07:15,080 --> 00:07:19,480 Speaker 1: times it's like I get so busy that I almost 121 00:07:20,200 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: can't take the time to write stuff down. And then 122 00:07:23,120 --> 00:07:25,280 Speaker 1: I'm like, oh, I abandoned that for the entire month 123 00:07:25,320 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 1: of June or whatever. And then I'm like, well, yeah, 124 00:07:27,400 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: and so I'll restart throughout the year. But then there 125 00:07:30,440 --> 00:07:32,760 Speaker 1: are other years where I'm like, on it like a bonnet. 126 00:07:32,840 --> 00:07:35,320 Speaker 1: I'm like, I got it. It's organizing my life, et cetera. 127 00:07:36,400 --> 00:07:39,880 Speaker 1: We also had the shared couple's calendar that went astray, 128 00:07:41,760 --> 00:07:45,480 Speaker 1: and even now we have a shared online calendar that's 129 00:07:45,480 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: supposed to note travel specifically just traveled nothing else. But 130 00:07:50,280 --> 00:07:53,800 Speaker 1: I am awful at updating it, so like poor Brian 131 00:07:53,840 --> 00:07:56,320 Speaker 1: will occasionally be like, what do you mean You're going 132 00:07:56,360 --> 00:08:00,400 Speaker 1: to New York next week? I just it's like it's 133 00:08:00,400 --> 00:08:02,280 Speaker 1: not in the calendar, and I'm like, I didn't put 134 00:08:02,320 --> 00:08:04,680 Speaker 1: it in the cat I thought I told you. I 135 00:08:04,720 --> 00:08:09,840 Speaker 1: told you in my heart, but not with my mouth. Yeah, 136 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,320 Speaker 1: but I figure, you know again, a new start always 137 00:08:13,360 --> 00:08:15,560 Speaker 1: makes me happy, So I'm always ready to start a 138 00:08:15,560 --> 00:08:20,600 Speaker 1: new calendar. And it's also partially because, like I mean, 139 00:08:20,640 --> 00:08:25,760 Speaker 1: I'm definitely a stationary dork, right, Like, oh, when you 140 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: can design a calendar, when you can and do the 141 00:08:29,920 --> 00:08:33,920 Speaker 1: their companies that let you select your cover and your 142 00:08:34,360 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: style of layout and your what kind of grid you have, 143 00:08:39,120 --> 00:08:42,320 Speaker 1: and it's I love it. So it's like eating cupcakes. 144 00:08:42,360 --> 00:08:48,400 Speaker 1: It's the best. Yeah, I love it so much that 145 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,120 Speaker 1: I also buy all of the accessories, and those are 146 00:08:51,160 --> 00:08:53,240 Speaker 1: what really fall to the wayside, where it's like you're 147 00:08:53,280 --> 00:08:57,440 Speaker 1: not you're not really going to use this right habit tracker, 148 00:08:57,679 --> 00:09:00,800 Speaker 1: but you have it in case you get a wild 149 00:09:00,840 --> 00:09:05,520 Speaker 1: hair again down the road. Yeah, I'm a sucker. I'm 150 00:09:05,559 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: a sucka. You put an astromech droid on it, and 151 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,840 Speaker 1: I will buy it so I can tell you. Yeah, 152 00:09:11,840 --> 00:09:15,439 Speaker 1: my current one has a scene from Return of the 153 00:09:15,520 --> 00:09:18,600 Speaker 1: Jedi on it, done in watercolor. I'm very excited. Twenty 154 00:09:18,600 --> 00:09:21,120 Speaker 1: twenty four. Please be good to me. I'm gonna do 155 00:09:21,240 --> 00:09:26,160 Speaker 1: my best to make this planner a successful and functional 156 00:09:26,160 --> 00:09:31,800 Speaker 1: item in my life, ever present, ever present. Yeah. I 157 00:09:31,840 --> 00:09:34,160 Speaker 1: think you know everybody struggles with how they work. I 158 00:09:34,559 --> 00:09:36,560 Speaker 1: think there's an all or nothing that becomes part of 159 00:09:36,559 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: the problem, right sure, where it's like, oh, I screwed 160 00:09:40,080 --> 00:09:42,080 Speaker 1: up for two months, so I guess I'm not using this, 161 00:09:42,160 --> 00:09:43,760 Speaker 1: and it's like, you can go back if you want. 162 00:09:43,840 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: There's there's no planner jail. You're fine. Do whatever. Whatever 163 00:09:48,040 --> 00:09:50,880 Speaker 1: helps you is the right way to use it. HM 164 00:09:50,960 --> 00:09:53,320 Speaker 1: is always my thing. Anyway. I could go on about 165 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:56,320 Speaker 1: calendars and planners for a long time, but I won't. 166 00:09:56,520 --> 00:09:57,360 Speaker 1: I've done it enough. 167 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:09,360 Speaker 2: So we talked about the Great English Sparrow War. 168 00:10:10,920 --> 00:10:16,360 Speaker 1: This week. I hope I have not made like ornithologists 169 00:10:16,559 --> 00:10:21,600 Speaker 1: and bird watchers and et cetera annoyed by using the 170 00:10:21,640 --> 00:10:25,680 Speaker 1: words English sparrow in the episode title. I did that 171 00:10:26,040 --> 00:10:31,960 Speaker 1: because the sparrow war means multiple different things, right, and 172 00:10:32,040 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: I did not want people to think they were going 173 00:10:34,080 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 1: to be clicking into something that was going to be 174 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,520 Speaker 1: about like Chairman Mouths for Pests campaign or something like that. 175 00:10:39,960 --> 00:10:43,800 Speaker 1: At the time, people were referring to it as the 176 00:10:43,840 --> 00:10:46,680 Speaker 1: Great English Sparrow War or the English sparrow War. They 177 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,920 Speaker 1: called them English sparrows a lot. So that is why 178 00:10:50,960 --> 00:10:53,679 Speaker 1: I titled it that way, both for clarity and to 179 00:10:53,800 --> 00:10:57,600 Speaker 1: reflect how people were talking about it at the time, 180 00:10:57,679 --> 00:11:05,320 Speaker 1: while also giving the birds you know, current right, current 181 00:11:06,040 --> 00:11:09,720 Speaker 1: scientific and common name. A thing that is interesting to 182 00:11:09,800 --> 00:11:12,959 Speaker 1: me about this is that here in the United States, 183 00:11:13,080 --> 00:11:16,480 Speaker 1: I think people a lot of people have a visceral 184 00:11:16,600 --> 00:11:19,559 Speaker 1: hatred for three kinds of birds. 185 00:11:20,040 --> 00:11:23,040 Speaker 2: Okay, one or more of them, Okay. 186 00:11:23,120 --> 00:11:29,480 Speaker 1: Sparrows specifically, how sparrows, starlings, and pigeons, all three of 187 00:11:29,520 --> 00:11:34,280 Speaker 1: those birds are here in the numbers. They are because 188 00:11:34,280 --> 00:11:39,360 Speaker 1: of like intentional decisions made by human beings. Right, I 189 00:11:39,360 --> 00:11:42,080 Speaker 1: will confess I didn't know people felt this way about 190 00:11:42,080 --> 00:11:46,160 Speaker 1: sparrows or starlings. I have heard more starling hatred than 191 00:11:46,240 --> 00:11:47,280 Speaker 1: sparrow hatred. 192 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:48,920 Speaker 2: I think I must be in. 193 00:11:48,960 --> 00:11:52,040 Speaker 1: My like weird bird lady hippie bubble where nobody's bothering 194 00:11:52,080 --> 00:11:57,160 Speaker 1: me with this. Yeah. So, while I was working on this. 195 00:11:57,240 --> 00:11:59,640 Speaker 1: I had this Zoom call with Rosemary Moscow. We sort 196 00:11:59,679 --> 00:12:02,160 Speaker 1: of had dinner over Zoom, and one of the things 197 00:12:02,160 --> 00:12:04,240 Speaker 1: that we were talking about is that today there are 198 00:12:04,280 --> 00:12:08,199 Speaker 1: people who really hate sparrows. They hate them so much, 199 00:12:08,880 --> 00:12:11,280 Speaker 1: and one of the big reasons is because of their 200 00:12:11,400 --> 00:12:15,840 Speaker 1: taking over the bluebird nests and sometimes killing the bluebirds 201 00:12:15,880 --> 00:12:21,880 Speaker 1: and especially killing baby bluebirds, and especially if somebody put 202 00:12:21,960 --> 00:12:25,480 Speaker 1: up a bluebird house in their yard and they see 203 00:12:25,520 --> 00:12:28,400 Speaker 1: this happen a lot of times, they will be outraged 204 00:12:28,920 --> 00:12:30,920 Speaker 1: and like want to get rid of the sparrows or 205 00:12:30,960 --> 00:12:34,079 Speaker 1: get some kind of sparrow control going on. But again, 206 00:12:34,120 --> 00:12:37,520 Speaker 1: there are other birds, including native birds, that do the 207 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:41,920 Speaker 1: same thing, and also speakes and raccoons and bats, and 208 00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:45,600 Speaker 1: like all of these other animals also prey on birds 209 00:12:45,600 --> 00:12:49,000 Speaker 1: and they're young. It is not something that is unique 210 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:53,640 Speaker 1: to sparrows at all. Another part of that Zoom conversation 211 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,600 Speaker 1: was about how Cows and Brewer neither of them was 212 00:12:57,760 --> 00:13:03,200 Speaker 1: right really because they were just mad. Yeah. The Cows 213 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 1: was like, these birds are the worst and and we 214 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:09,800 Speaker 1: should kill them all, and Brewer was like, no, they're not. 215 00:13:10,880 --> 00:13:13,040 Speaker 1: And even if it does turn out they're bad. Uh, 216 00:13:13,160 --> 00:13:15,640 Speaker 1: there won't be that many of them, so it'll it'll 217 00:13:15,640 --> 00:13:21,120 Speaker 1: be fine. Like neither of those was correct. And when 218 00:13:21,160 --> 00:13:25,800 Speaker 1: there has been researched more recently into like, okay, what 219 00:13:25,960 --> 00:13:30,439 Speaker 1: is the actual impact of how Sparrow's eating grain, it's 220 00:13:30,480 --> 00:13:34,760 Speaker 1: been kind of like not clear that there is an obvious, 221 00:13:34,800 --> 00:13:40,880 Speaker 1: like clear correlation. Right, So, yes, Sparrow's starling and starlings 222 00:13:40,880 --> 00:13:46,880 Speaker 1: and pigeons all like introduced intentionally for reasons, and now 223 00:13:46,880 --> 00:13:48,720 Speaker 1: we have a lot of them, and people get really angry. 224 00:13:49,240 --> 00:13:53,560 Speaker 1: And I think pigeons in part because they're all over 225 00:13:53,640 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 1: cities and they poop on statues and whatnot. Yes, I 226 00:13:57,960 --> 00:14:01,480 Speaker 1: love pigeons though they're so pretty. Yeah, there was a 227 00:14:01,559 --> 00:14:05,000 Speaker 1: plaza right by our hotel in Barcelona that was so 228 00:14:05,240 --> 00:14:09,679 Speaker 1: full of pigeons, and I would take pigeon pictures and 229 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,360 Speaker 1: send them to what was Mary and be like, look 230 00:14:12,360 --> 00:14:15,280 Speaker 1: at all these pigeons. Yeah, they seem okay with those pigeons. 231 00:14:15,360 --> 00:14:18,240 Speaker 1: I mean they have people out there selling little bags 232 00:14:18,240 --> 00:14:19,840 Speaker 1: of seeds so you can hold your arm out and 233 00:14:19,880 --> 00:14:23,920 Speaker 1: the pigeons will come and land on you. So yeah, 234 00:14:23,960 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: I don't know if you witnessed any of those. I 235 00:14:25,960 --> 00:14:29,120 Speaker 1: saw somebody try to feed or I guess really Patrick 236 00:14:29,160 --> 00:14:29,440 Speaker 1: saw this. 237 00:14:29,600 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 2: I did not see what was happening. 238 00:14:30,840 --> 00:14:34,360 Speaker 1: I just saw the birds suddenly get very excited, and 239 00:14:34,680 --> 00:14:39,520 Speaker 1: I guess somebody had fed a bird something, and of 240 00:14:39,600 --> 00:14:41,920 Speaker 1: course then the rest of the pigeons were like, oh, 241 00:14:42,040 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 1: me too, and the person was not expecting this to happen. 242 00:14:45,360 --> 00:14:47,440 Speaker 1: It seemed like that was Patrick's read on what was 243 00:14:47,440 --> 00:14:50,240 Speaker 1: going on. We also didn't really get into it, but 244 00:14:50,360 --> 00:14:54,920 Speaker 1: like there were ongoing efforts to eradicate or at least 245 00:14:55,000 --> 00:14:59,880 Speaker 1: control the sparrows, and in nineteen ten, the USDA published 246 00:14:59,880 --> 00:15:04,040 Speaker 1: a pamphlet that was titled How to Destroy English Sparrows, 247 00:15:05,160 --> 00:15:08,680 Speaker 1: which described them as cunning, destructive, and filthy and had 248 00:15:08,720 --> 00:15:12,960 Speaker 1: all kinds of tips to like discourage him from nesting 249 00:15:12,960 --> 00:15:15,560 Speaker 1: for long enough that they would finally abandon the nest site, 250 00:15:15,560 --> 00:15:18,680 Speaker 1: and then also like to kill them, which is I 251 00:15:18,720 --> 00:15:20,400 Speaker 1: don't know. It did not really work. There have been 252 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:24,680 Speaker 1: some introduced animal eradication efforts we have talked about on 253 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:29,760 Speaker 1: the show before, which I think have been successful, like 254 00:15:30,520 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: eradicating goats from some of the Galapagus islands, but that's 255 00:15:35,360 --> 00:15:40,600 Speaker 1: a little like a bird can just fly to another island, 256 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:56,240 Speaker 1: Goats not so much going to this whole episode the 257 00:15:56,280 --> 00:16:00,280 Speaker 1: bird and science issues aside, I'm like, this is it 258 00:16:00,280 --> 00:16:02,720 Speaker 1: really a fewed about birds? This is two guys who 259 00:16:02,800 --> 00:16:07,480 Speaker 1: want to be the most one in ornithology having ego 260 00:16:07,520 --> 00:16:13,800 Speaker 1: battles with each yah, and I don't. Here's the thing. 261 00:16:13,960 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: I have certainly had those things in my life about 262 00:16:19,280 --> 00:16:22,480 Speaker 1: which I am almost irrationally angry and will dig in on. 263 00:16:23,560 --> 00:16:26,800 Speaker 1: But it is simultaneously hard for me to understand. Like 264 00:16:28,560 --> 00:16:32,680 Speaker 1: arguing with somebody who's already dead, right, like wanting to 265 00:16:32,840 --> 00:16:36,920 Speaker 1: just carry that anger in your heart to your grave 266 00:16:37,200 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: that seems exhausting well over a decade later, yeah wooh, 267 00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:44,040 Speaker 1: Like I feel like that was seventeen years later. Oh, 268 00:16:44,120 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 1: you gotta get past that. You need you need to 269 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:50,400 Speaker 1: talk this through with a professional. The other thing that 270 00:16:50,440 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: made me go uh oh was when we were talking 271 00:16:54,880 --> 00:16:59,960 Speaker 1: about cows still trash talking Brewer in his personal correspond 272 00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,280 Speaker 1: and I was like, dear Lord and butter, do not 273 00:17:03,440 --> 00:17:06,600 Speaker 1: let people in one hundred years pull out my texts 274 00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 1: and start revealing the things I have said about people 275 00:17:10,119 --> 00:17:15,080 Speaker 1: in moments of anger or venting, because that's not cool's yeah, yeah, 276 00:17:15,160 --> 00:17:16,480 Speaker 1: that ain't gonna be good for anybody. 277 00:17:16,560 --> 00:17:19,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, when. 278 00:17:20,920 --> 00:17:25,120 Speaker 1: Uh, when that article, I can't if there's the actual 279 00:17:25,280 --> 00:17:27,760 Speaker 1: title of it, but people were describing as it is, 280 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:29,159 Speaker 1: like who's the bad art friend? 281 00:17:29,760 --> 00:17:30,960 Speaker 2: And it was about. 282 00:17:33,200 --> 00:17:37,719 Speaker 1: A dispute within a writing group where like one person 283 00:17:37,840 --> 00:17:42,520 Speaker 1: had donated an organ and then there was a lot 284 00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:47,080 Speaker 1: of judginess. And one of the conversations I had in 285 00:17:47,119 --> 00:17:50,280 Speaker 1: like my group chat was I hope no one ever 286 00:17:50,320 --> 00:17:56,240 Speaker 1: subpoenas my group chat, Like I'm not in there being 287 00:17:56,880 --> 00:17:59,320 Speaker 1: awful to people, but they're for sure been times when 288 00:17:59,320 --> 00:18:01,400 Speaker 1: I've just been like so and so has been such 289 00:18:01,400 --> 00:18:05,760 Speaker 1: a jerk blah blah blah. Yeah, yeah, I've been fully 290 00:18:05,800 --> 00:18:08,400 Speaker 1: insulting to people when it's just like me and a friend. 291 00:18:08,480 --> 00:18:11,880 Speaker 1: And you understand that, like part of the function of 292 00:18:11,920 --> 00:18:14,840 Speaker 1: your close, trusting friendship is that sometimes you're going to 293 00:18:14,960 --> 00:18:19,040 Speaker 1: vent ugly things about people that you don't necessarily feel 294 00:18:19,080 --> 00:18:22,399 Speaker 1: when you are in a more pleasand reasonable place, But 295 00:18:22,480 --> 00:18:24,360 Speaker 1: in that moment, you've got to get the anger out 296 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:26,159 Speaker 1: and you're gonna say yucky things. 297 00:18:26,600 --> 00:18:27,000 Speaker 2: Yeah. 298 00:18:27,240 --> 00:18:30,239 Speaker 1: Yeah, happens for real, Yeah all the time about all 299 00:18:30,320 --> 00:18:33,840 Speaker 1: kinds of things, people on the street, people on that 300 00:18:33,840 --> 00:18:36,880 Speaker 1: that's how you stay nice in real life, is it right? 301 00:18:38,440 --> 00:18:42,560 Speaker 1: You deal with those emotions in a private, trusting circle. 302 00:18:43,160 --> 00:18:45,520 Speaker 1: There are just a lot of things that happen in 303 00:18:45,560 --> 00:18:48,520 Speaker 1: life where I'm like, what you really should be doing 304 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:51,560 Speaker 1: here is like writing this in your journal, or talking 305 00:18:51,600 --> 00:18:53,840 Speaker 1: to a friend about it, or maybe talking to your 306 00:18:53,920 --> 00:18:59,280 Speaker 1: therapist or some other you know person. Uh not not 307 00:18:59,480 --> 00:19:02,720 Speaker 1: picking a fight with a stranger on the internet right 308 00:19:02,800 --> 00:19:12,120 Speaker 1: about birds? But it's so easy. Yeah, yeah, I will 309 00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:16,960 Speaker 1: say this. I have perpetual fear because, as we have discussed, 310 00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:19,639 Speaker 1: I feed all of the animals of my neighborhood on 311 00:19:19,680 --> 00:19:23,520 Speaker 1: my deck, and I'm always like, uh oh, am I 312 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:27,400 Speaker 1: messing with some stuff. Like I remember when we started 313 00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: to get corvids. I was like, uh oh, like because 314 00:19:31,280 --> 00:19:33,720 Speaker 1: I love them, but I was also very conscious of 315 00:19:33,720 --> 00:19:36,280 Speaker 1: the fact that they will sometimes go after other birds. 316 00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:41,280 Speaker 1: But I think I feed them all enough that everybody 317 00:19:41,320 --> 00:19:45,159 Speaker 1: seems cool. I will look out there sometimes and like 318 00:19:45,960 --> 00:19:48,719 Speaker 1: a crow and two doves and a cardinal and a 319 00:19:48,720 --> 00:19:51,080 Speaker 1: squirrel are all eating at the same time in pretty 320 00:19:51,119 --> 00:19:53,560 Speaker 1: close proximity, and nobody seems to care. And I'm like, 321 00:19:54,080 --> 00:19:56,040 Speaker 1: I think everybody has enough food that we don't have 322 00:19:56,080 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: to We're okay, which I'm probably giving them all like 323 00:20:00,440 --> 00:20:03,040 Speaker 1: heart disease from overfeeding or something, and you know, that's 324 00:20:03,080 --> 00:20:05,920 Speaker 1: another way in which I am ruining nature, but it's 325 00:20:05,920 --> 00:20:12,560 Speaker 1: never my goal. I just want everybody to be cool. Yeah, 326 00:20:12,720 --> 00:20:15,879 Speaker 1: So I'm glad I finally got this onto the list 327 00:20:15,960 --> 00:20:18,159 Speaker 1: because all the ridiculousness. 328 00:20:17,440 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 2: Was fun to read. 329 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:21,040 Speaker 1: I did kind of struggle with how to end the 330 00:20:21,040 --> 00:20:24,360 Speaker 1: episode because it mostly just stops because they died, right, 331 00:20:26,040 --> 00:20:28,960 Speaker 1: there's not really a greater resolution. They died, the sparrows 332 00:20:29,000 --> 00:20:31,000 Speaker 1: are still here, there are still people who hate them. 333 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: There's no d new moone. Neither of them were ever satisfied. 334 00:20:34,440 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: There's no like key learning from it, because other introductions 335 00:20:38,480 --> 00:20:43,480 Speaker 1: were still happening after that, both intentional and accidental. 336 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 2: And then yeah, there's a. 337 00:20:45,560 --> 00:20:50,159 Speaker 1: Whole, uh, that whole thread about like there's still a 338 00:20:50,240 --> 00:20:54,800 Speaker 1: lot of discussion of invading of invasive animal or plant 339 00:20:54,840 --> 00:21:00,520 Speaker 1: species that mirrors the way that some people talk about 340 00:21:00,680 --> 00:21:03,399 Speaker 1: immigration to United States of human beings, and there's like 341 00:21:03,440 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 1: all this you know, continuing interconnection overlap, and we didn't 342 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,960 Speaker 1: get it into the episode, but like almost a counterpoint. 343 00:21:12,480 --> 00:21:16,760 Speaker 1: Sometimes people will talk about immigration using the terminology of 344 00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:22,320 Speaker 1: natural disasters. Yeah, that's all connected. Uh so yeah, that 345 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:26,720 Speaker 1: was like the less the less fun side to read 346 00:21:26,760 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: about was reading the eugenicists talking about the sparros. Yeah, so, 347 00:21:32,119 --> 00:21:35,960 Speaker 1: Happy Friday. So we're gonna leave off with eugenics. Whatever's 348 00:21:35,960 --> 00:21:37,960 Speaker 1: happening on your weekend. I hope it is going to 349 00:21:38,040 --> 00:21:40,720 Speaker 1: be great. We will have a Saturday Classic tomorrow. We 350 00:21:40,760 --> 00:21:44,080 Speaker 1: will have something brand new on Monday. You know, if 351 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:46,359 Speaker 1: you've seen some great birds out in the world and 352 00:21:46,400 --> 00:21:49,120 Speaker 1: you take pictures of them, send us bird pictures too, 353 00:21:49,359 --> 00:21:51,639 Speaker 1: or you know, if you have pet birds in your house, 354 00:21:51,760 --> 00:21:57,320 Speaker 1: birds lovely? Yes, please Yeah, if you have animal animal 355 00:21:57,359 --> 00:21:58,359 Speaker 1: tax you want to pay us. 356 00:21:58,400 --> 00:22:00,160 Speaker 2: It does not have to be a dog or a cat, 357 00:22:00,240 --> 00:22:01,320 Speaker 2: or a horse or a lizard. 358 00:22:01,640 --> 00:22:04,760 Speaker 1: I'll take snakes, i will take bugs, I will take 359 00:22:04,960 --> 00:22:07,880 Speaker 1: I just like animals and I like when people have 360 00:22:08,080 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 1: great relationships with them. Yeah. 361 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:20,320 Speaker 2: So again, Happy Friday, See you soon. Stuff you missed 362 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:20,920 Speaker 2: in History. 363 00:22:20,720 --> 00:22:25,080 Speaker 1: Class is a production of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, 364 00:22:25,240 --> 00:22:28,840 Speaker 1: visit the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen 365 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:31,960 Speaker 1: to your favorite shows.