WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Maura Murray 0:00:00.080 --> 0:00:02.600 Hey, guys, We've had a lot of requests for the 0:00:02.640 --> 0:00:04.960 show that um we did this week, and I know 0:00:05.000 --> 0:00:07.120 a lot of people are really interested in this case. 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:10.480 But before we start, I wanted to quickly address why 0:00:10.520 --> 0:00:15.040 we haven't done this particular mystery yet. It's my fault, Seriously. 0:00:15.400 --> 0:00:18.160 I have this kind of short list of quote unsolved 0:00:18.239 --> 0:00:22.800 unquote mysteries that I don't really want to do um 0:00:22.880 --> 0:00:25.520 for whatever reason. We get requests for them and we 0:00:25.560 --> 0:00:28.640 add them to the list, UM, but we kind of 0:00:28.640 --> 0:00:32.120 know we won't get to them. Mar Murray was on 0:00:32.159 --> 0:00:34.640 that list almost since the inception of this show. She's 0:00:34.640 --> 0:00:37.120 been on the list, but we keep getting requests for it, 0:00:37.280 --> 0:00:41.839 and often they're from listeners who suggested many other really 0:00:41.840 --> 0:00:45.080 compelling mysteries. Mar Murray has always kind of been a 0:00:45.080 --> 0:00:48.000 clear cut case in my mind. Mar Murray twenty one 0:00:48.200 --> 0:00:50.839 ran away from home for reasons I have always admitted 0:00:50.880 --> 0:00:53.760 to be unknown. She no longer wanted to participate in 0:00:53.840 --> 0:00:56.640 her life and just walked away from it. I lived 0:00:56.680 --> 0:00:59.320 and worked in Stockford's, Massachusetts for a while, and I 0:00:59.360 --> 0:01:02.000 have holidayed Amhurst a number of times, and I thought 0:01:02.040 --> 0:01:11.400 I understood Mara, but I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, thinking sideways. 0:01:11.640 --> 0:01:21.640 I don't understand. You never know stories of things. We 0:01:21.720 --> 0:01:30.240 simply don't know the answer too. Hey, it's thinking sunyways 0:01:30.280 --> 0:01:34.600 the podcast. Thanks for joining us. I'm Devin, I'm Joe, 0:01:34.800 --> 0:01:38.920 I'm Steve, and we're gonna definitely not even close to 0:01:38.959 --> 0:01:41.920 solve a mystery tonight. Yeah, we'll shed a little light 0:01:41.920 --> 0:01:45.240 on things. That's the best we'll do. That's the best 0:01:45.280 --> 0:01:49.080 we're getting right there. I think without without a bunch 0:01:49.120 --> 0:01:51.480 of dogs, you know, like like you know, snipping dogs 0:01:51.480 --> 0:01:53.840 and stuff like that in a time machine and a 0:01:54.040 --> 0:01:57.160 time machine. But yeah, well, basically what we need to 0:01:57.200 --> 0:01:59.320 do is go out to that where the disappearance took 0:01:59.320 --> 0:02:03.520 place and dig everything up for miles around. I feel 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:07.640 like that's already been done somehow, No, I think. Okay, 0:02:07.680 --> 0:02:12.279 so tonight we're finally getting around to doing the disappearance 0:02:12.280 --> 0:02:16.320 of mar Murray. So where would you like to start? 0:02:17.040 --> 0:02:20.440 I guess we'll start where most people start, and that 0:02:20.600 --> 0:02:25.440 is the credit card fraud, MA credit card. Well, yeah, 0:02:25.639 --> 0:02:27.639 although this, let me be up front about this, I 0:02:27.680 --> 0:02:29.280 don't think the credit card fraud had much to do 0:02:29.360 --> 0:02:33.680 with her disappearance at all. Sure, you know, let's let's 0:02:33.680 --> 0:02:36.160 just jump into it. So, yeah, let's just go for it. 0:02:36.440 --> 0:02:40.000 So in November of two thousand three, three months prior 0:02:40.160 --> 0:02:45.280 to her disappearance, Mara Murray used a discontinued credit card 0:02:45.360 --> 0:02:49.760 number to order eighty dollars worth of pizza. Discontinued. That 0:02:49.800 --> 0:02:53.640 means it's hers, but it was a closed account. Discontinued 0:02:53.840 --> 0:02:57.880 means it wasn't hers, And it was also a closed account. 0:02:58.120 --> 0:03:00.200 It's a really nice way of saying she committed credit 0:03:00.200 --> 0:03:04.720 card fraud. Okay, how did she manage to run the card? Yeah, 0:03:04.919 --> 0:03:07.560 as far as I understand it, Uh, you know, in 0:03:07.560 --> 0:03:10.200 two thousand three, it's not true. Maybe that was when 0:03:10.200 --> 0:03:16.640 they just had a little machine, remember, Yeah, and then 0:03:16.919 --> 0:03:20.079 you know amherst It's totally possible that that was the case, 0:03:20.320 --> 0:03:24.040 and I did it, wasn't she stole credit card numbers 0:03:24.120 --> 0:03:28.440 or credit cards from fellow students at U. Mass charges 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:33.119 we're going to be dropped against her following three months 0:03:33.280 --> 0:03:36.840 of good behavior after her trial, which was in December. 0:03:37.240 --> 0:03:40.360 It's pretty unclear to me if this had anything to 0:03:40.400 --> 0:03:43.400 do with her disappearance, because there was no time served 0:03:43.480 --> 0:03:48.720 and it's not really going to impact her life too terribly. Much. 0:03:50.040 --> 0:03:52.240 You know, this is the sort of thing. It's eighty 0:03:52.280 --> 0:03:57.040 dollars on a credit card for pizza. Small thing. Jump 0:03:57.080 --> 0:04:07.040 forward four days prior to her February ninth disappearance. That 0:04:07.120 --> 0:04:12.760 means it was February five that this happened. Mara spoke 0:04:12.800 --> 0:04:14.800 with her sister on the phone while she was on 0:04:14.880 --> 0:04:18.039 break from her job on campus. She was she worked 0:04:18.080 --> 0:04:22.880 at the security desk. Is my understanding. She apparently spoke 0:04:22.920 --> 0:04:27.080 with her sister about her sister's relationship problems she and 0:04:27.120 --> 0:04:32.520 her they were having problems with her fiance, apparently, and 0:04:33.120 --> 0:04:37.480 a few hours after returning to work, Mara broke down, 0:04:37.560 --> 0:04:40.839 crying so much so that her work supervisor had to 0:04:40.960 --> 0:04:43.720 escort her back to her dorm room. No, correct me 0:04:43.760 --> 0:04:45.839 if I'm wrong. I seemed to remember in some of 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:49.080 the reading that after she had got off the phone 0:04:49.120 --> 0:04:51.640 with her sister, I swear I saw something that she 0:04:51.720 --> 0:04:55.279 had gotten another phone call which caused her to break down. 0:04:55.440 --> 0:05:01.400 That's my understanding of fairly mysterious. I think that stance 0:05:01.520 --> 0:05:03.520 this is all, you know. The problem is that, like 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:06.120 most of this is kind of hearsay or you know, 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:09.680 it's that the cell phone records showed that she had 0:05:09.760 --> 0:05:12.560 just spoken to her sister, or she just said she 0:05:12.640 --> 0:05:14.920 spoke to her sister, and the cell phone records showed 0:05:15.440 --> 0:05:20.240 that she had actually received another call. It's a little well, 0:05:20.320 --> 0:05:24.480 not everything's released. It's not because it's an ongoing investigation. Yeah. 0:05:24.520 --> 0:05:26.840 I think the police files are still still still still 0:05:27.000 --> 0:05:28.920 not all of them, but some of them certainly are. 0:05:29.520 --> 0:05:33.560 Maura never discussed why. She refused to talk about why 0:05:33.600 --> 0:05:35.520 she was so upset, you know. Of course, her supervisor 0:05:35.600 --> 0:05:39.240 said she was just emotional. It's possible, you know, that 0:05:39.320 --> 0:05:42.360 happens sometimes, but it seems it seemed like it struck 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:45.640 people out of character. For her. Well, yeah, I'm at 0:05:45.640 --> 0:05:48.400 work and suddenly I break down into a full blown 0:05:48.440 --> 0:05:54.800 crying jag. That's not normal behavior. I agree, if you're 0:05:54.800 --> 0:05:58.400 a particularly emotional person, maybe, but there's that, like, you know, 0:05:58.640 --> 0:06:01.680 the death in the family. I don't make you cry. 0:06:01.839 --> 0:06:04.680 Two days before she disappeared, so that would be the seventh, 0:06:05.680 --> 0:06:08.960 her father arrived in town. Her father is kind of 0:06:08.960 --> 0:06:13.120 a character in these stories for a lot of different 0:06:13.200 --> 0:06:18.440 reasons that will discuss most of later, but he says 0:06:18.560 --> 0:06:21.200 that he and Marrow were shopping for used car for 0:06:21.240 --> 0:06:23.360 her because it turns out that perhaps her Saturn was 0:06:23.400 --> 0:06:26.120 a bet of a lemon. Yeah, she was having some 0:06:26.160 --> 0:06:28.640 car problems. I don't know. I'm not sure exactly what. 0:06:28.680 --> 0:06:31.680 I saw one that had a blown cylinder. I don't 0:06:31.680 --> 0:06:33.479 know if that means like a blown head gasket or 0:06:33.520 --> 0:06:38.320 what it no idea. But the trouble with this little 0:06:38.360 --> 0:06:44.320 bit of information is that friends and Mara's boyfriend say 0:06:44.440 --> 0:06:47.280 they don't remember her mentioning going car shopping at all. 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:49.600 And that's the sort of thing that you kind of 0:06:49.720 --> 0:06:53.159 excitedly talk about with your friends. Usually, if you're going 0:06:53.200 --> 0:06:55.160 to get a car, you're usually like, oh, my dad 0:06:55.160 --> 0:06:57.240 and I are car shopping. You know, if she's having 0:06:57.279 --> 0:06:59.920 a huge problem with her car in a place like Amhurst, 0:07:00.040 --> 0:07:03.279 where you you kind of drive most places, you're going 0:07:03.320 --> 0:07:06.200 to probably off handedly mention it to at least one person. 0:07:06.600 --> 0:07:09.640 Unless she just wanted to get the car fixed. It 0:07:09.680 --> 0:07:12.080 could be that she, let's say, she really liked that 0:07:12.120 --> 0:07:15.720 car and Dad, I just need you to fix it. 0:07:16.320 --> 0:07:19.480 And Dad says, know that the thing is a lemon, 0:07:19.680 --> 0:07:22.520 and I keep dumping money into it. We're just getting 0:07:22.520 --> 0:07:24.640 you a different car. Well, then you would complain to 0:07:24.680 --> 0:07:27.000 your friends about how that's true. It is making you 0:07:27.160 --> 0:07:29.760 get true. You know, I think that's that's one of 0:07:29.800 --> 0:07:33.920 those like little tidbits of most people seem to not 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:39.600 actually believe that they were car shopping. Yeah, but I don't. 0:07:39.640 --> 0:07:42.800 You know, again, this is a one of the big 0:07:42.800 --> 0:07:45.960 problems with this whole story is that it's just he said, 0:07:46.080 --> 0:07:51.760 she said. I'm inclined to believe her to be. But 0:07:51.840 --> 0:07:53.880 you know, she might have like not told people just 0:07:53.880 --> 0:07:56.240 because she wanted to surprise and surprise people by showing 0:07:56.280 --> 0:07:58.160 up in the new car one day. Or maybe she 0:07:58.200 --> 0:08:00.600 was embarrassed about the fact that her she needed a 0:08:00.600 --> 0:08:02.880 new car but her dad had to buy it for yeah, 0:08:03.000 --> 0:08:04.560 Or she was going to get a used car. Yeah. 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:06.520 I mean, you know, it's kind of one of those 0:08:06.640 --> 0:08:12.000 one or another things. Either way, he later dropped her off, 0:08:12.000 --> 0:08:15.360 they went out to dinner, you know, did father daughter stuff. 0:08:16.080 --> 0:08:23.840 Then he loaned her his car, a new Toyota, Yeah, 0:08:24.440 --> 0:08:26.560 and she was going to take it. She drove him 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:29.680 back to his hotel room and then took it and 0:08:30.640 --> 0:08:34.720 went to a party that night and apparently got a 0:08:34.760 --> 0:08:40.400 little tipsy. Maybe it's unclear, but she attempted to drive 0:08:40.559 --> 0:08:43.559 the car back to her father's hotel room, which people 0:08:43.600 --> 0:08:47.959 think is is weird, but I think there's fair explanations 0:08:48.040 --> 0:08:51.080 for it, I guess. But actually she ended up just 0:08:51.280 --> 0:08:56.280 crashing it into a card rail instead, worth the damage 0:08:56.280 --> 0:08:59.680 to the car something like that. Yeah. The police arrived 0:09:00.280 --> 0:09:02.160 on the scene of the crash and questioned her, but 0:09:02.320 --> 0:09:06.400 didn't administer any sobriety tests or arrest her, which is 0:09:06.480 --> 0:09:10.920 weird in a college town. Yes, in a college town cops, 0:09:11.000 --> 0:09:13.320 that's one of the first things they do when it's 0:09:13.440 --> 0:09:16.960 nighttime and you've had an accident, they check you for 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:20.760 booze because you're a student and you were probably drinking. 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:24.240 So we'll talk about this in a little bit too, 0:09:24.440 --> 0:09:29.520 because the guy who responded maybe was had some stuff 0:09:29.559 --> 0:09:31.800 going on in his own I I kind of think 0:09:32.040 --> 0:09:35.200 that sounds to me like it's February in Massachusetts. She 0:09:35.280 --> 0:09:38.600 probably hit a patch of ice and just crashed into 0:09:38.640 --> 0:09:41.439 the guardrail, and then you know, he saw the ice 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.559 and said, oh, you hit that patch of ice. Great, fine, 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.800 you know. On the other hand, I don't. I don't know. 0:09:47.920 --> 0:09:49.160 There's a lot of things that could have been going 0:09:49.200 --> 0:09:52.600 on there. Either way, They called the tow truck and 0:09:52.720 --> 0:09:55.800 the cop gave Maura a ride back to her father's 0:09:55.840 --> 0:10:00.480 hotel room at about four forty five in the morning. 0:10:01.000 --> 0:10:05.000 That morning, she called her boyfriend from the hotel room 0:10:05.040 --> 0:10:09.760 to talk with him about the accident in alcohol. Yeah, 0:10:09.760 --> 0:10:11.280 he lived about me and he was like two times, 0:10:11.520 --> 0:10:13.200 so it was like two forty five in the morning 0:10:13.600 --> 0:10:16.600 where he was at. I bet he appreciated that. Well, 0:10:16.600 --> 0:10:19.160 it was four forty five for her. You know, it's 0:10:19.200 --> 0:10:22.040 kind of that's a weird time to call somebody either way. 0:10:22.080 --> 0:10:23.800 Although I guess if you just had a car accident, 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:25.640 you don't think about that. You just grabbed the phone 0:10:25.640 --> 0:10:27.800 and call. Yeah, although god, you're not gonna believe it 0:10:27.800 --> 0:10:30.000 just happened. Okay, But the car crash was at like two, 0:10:30.960 --> 0:10:35.439 so there were two hours in the remaining Yeah, so 0:10:36.040 --> 0:10:38.920 who knows. The next morning, her father, Fred determined that 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.680 the damage um that she had done to the car 0:10:41.720 --> 0:10:44.400 would be covered under his insurance plans, so he rented 0:10:44.400 --> 0:10:48.560 a car, dropped more often her dorm room, and drove home. 0:10:49.040 --> 0:10:52.760 He called Maura later that evening. It's always says later 0:10:52.800 --> 0:10:55.880 that evening, but it was like eleven thirty at night. Again, 0:10:56.600 --> 0:11:00.200 there's a lot of weird time stuff happening here. Ut 0:11:00.520 --> 0:11:03.720 called her to discuss how to file the insurance report 0:11:03.760 --> 0:11:06.240 because she had been driving and she needed to do 0:11:06.280 --> 0:11:08.520 some of the reporting, And they decided that they would 0:11:08.520 --> 0:11:12.640 talk more later, like on Monday. And of course this 0:11:12.760 --> 0:11:18.880 information all comes from him. Around midnight on February nine, 0:11:19.240 --> 0:11:22.679 shortly after speaking to her father, so it was right 0:11:22.720 --> 0:11:24.520 after she'd gotten off the phone with him about the 0:11:24.520 --> 0:11:29.920 insurance claim, Mara used her personal computer to search map quest. Yes, 0:11:30.000 --> 0:11:32.720 it was the early two thousand's and that was the 0:11:32.760 --> 0:11:38.640 best direction website, That's what it was. She was looking 0:11:38.679 --> 0:11:41.720 for directions to both the Berk Shares and Burlington Vermont, 0:11:41.800 --> 0:11:45.760 both awesome places. So later that afternoon, at like one pm, 0:11:45.800 --> 0:11:49.200 she emailed her boyfriend quote, I got your messages, but 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:51.840 honestly I don't feel like talking too much of anyone. 0:11:51.920 --> 0:11:56.640 I promised to call today though unquote. Also around one 0:11:56.960 --> 0:11:59.240 she made a phone call to enquire about renting a 0:11:59.400 --> 0:12:04.760 condo in UH in Bartlett, New Hampshire. Apparently she had 0:12:04.800 --> 0:12:09.240 vacation there before with her family. The telephone records seemed 0:12:09.280 --> 0:12:12.880 to indicate that the call lasted three minutes UH and 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:16.439 she did not successfully rent a condo. Mara then called 0:12:16.480 --> 0:12:19.680 a fellow nursing student for reasons unknown, which is my 0:12:19.760 --> 0:12:25.280 favorite unsolved mystery term out. It's unclear if that means 0:12:25.360 --> 0:12:29.000 that Maura connected with the student and the student is 0:12:29.040 --> 0:12:31.880 like refusing to say what they talked about, or if 0:12:32.280 --> 0:12:35.080 the student just never answered. I'm assuming that she just 0:12:35.160 --> 0:12:38.240 never answered. The interviewed the student. The student just said 0:12:38.240 --> 0:12:41.720 that we just talked about crape, nothing important and stuff. Yeah, 0:12:41.760 --> 0:12:45.960 exactly at all, twenty one year old college student girls did. 0:12:49.280 --> 0:12:52.680 Mara emailed the work supervisor of hers at the nursing 0:12:52.760 --> 0:12:58.719 school and also her nursing school faculty advisors and professors, 0:12:59.240 --> 0:13:02.160 saying that she had to leave town for a week 0:13:02.600 --> 0:13:04.640 due to a death in her family, and that she 0:13:04.640 --> 0:13:08.240 would contact them when she returned. However, nobody and her 0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:12.000 family had died, well except her. That's suspicious. It was 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:15.240 a little suspicious. I don't think I mean earlier, seriously, 0:13:15.240 --> 0:13:18.320 have any you know, lots and lots of people tell 0:13:18.480 --> 0:13:21.160 tell lies to get out of work for whatever reason. 0:13:21.360 --> 0:13:23.520 They call in sick when they're not for like a 0:13:23.600 --> 0:13:28.840 day though. Yeah, yeah, that's a long span of time. 0:13:29.200 --> 0:13:34.520 It is big exaggeration. She just really needed to get away. Yeah, 0:13:34.640 --> 0:13:38.040 so then at too she called a number that provides 0:13:38.240 --> 0:13:42.880 a prerecorded information about booking hotels in Vermont, Stowe, Vermont. 0:13:43.080 --> 0:13:47.600 I think it's the East coast. They say, all the 0:13:47.679 --> 0:13:52.000 things they use all vals. Might be let's call it 0:13:53.920 --> 0:13:56.560 somewhere in Vermont. She listened to the information for about 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.080 five minutes, which is a really long time to listen 0:13:59.120 --> 0:14:01.880 to that kind of information. And you know, I've been 0:14:01.960 --> 0:14:06.320 stuck in those telephone trees before. Press one to do this, 0:14:06.480 --> 0:14:10.520 Press two to do that. I press three, crowd it's 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.839 the wrong one. Press nine to go back, nine to 0:14:13.920 --> 0:14:16.880 go back, start over. I mean, we've all been on 0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.640 those prerecorded systems where you feel like you're in there forever. 0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.960 I just thought it was like the weather service one 0:14:22.000 --> 0:14:24.920 that you can call that says for your area code 0:14:25.160 --> 0:14:27.400 the weather is, and you know, it's just like on 0:14:27.400 --> 0:14:30.120 a minute loop or something. But if it's for booking hotels, 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:34.080 it might have been listing hotel in an area, so 0:14:34.160 --> 0:14:36.240 she got to navigate through it to find the area 0:14:36.320 --> 0:14:39.320 and then get the list of hotels. Anyway, I don't 0:14:39.320 --> 0:14:42.960 know how relevant this is so, but it may or 0:14:42.960 --> 0:14:46.960 may not be. A few minutes later, at to eighteen, 0:14:47.600 --> 0:14:52.840 she telephoned her boyfriend and left a voicemail that essentially 0:14:52.840 --> 0:14:56.600 said they would talk later, and it was just under 0:14:56.600 --> 0:15:00.840 a minute long. That message, like most voicemails are. Yes. 0:15:01.360 --> 0:15:04.560 In her car, she packed the things that you would 0:15:04.560 --> 0:15:08.359 typically pack on a trip, um, you know, clothes, toiletries, 0:15:08.680 --> 0:15:11.960 college textbooks, all that stuff. I don't take college textbush 0:15:12.000 --> 0:15:17.720 when I travel, well, because you're not a college student. Weird, Okay, 0:15:17.760 --> 0:15:23.920 it's so weird. Yeah, well, well that apparently when her 0:15:24.000 --> 0:15:27.640 room was searched after her disappearance her dorm room, they 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:31.640 found that all of her belongings were packed in boxes. Um, 0:15:31.680 --> 0:15:33.680 you know, things like the art that was on the 0:15:33.720 --> 0:15:40.960 walls had been removed. It's apparently disputed whether she had 0:15:41.160 --> 0:15:43.960 packed them that day or if they were still packed 0:15:44.040 --> 0:15:47.120 from her recent She had just gotten back from winter break, 0:15:47.440 --> 0:15:49.800 and we talked about this a little bit and debated 0:15:49.800 --> 0:15:53.080 back and forth. It's my feeling that you don't pack 0:15:53.160 --> 0:15:57.880 things up over winter break generally, so changing rooms. Yeah, 0:15:57.960 --> 0:16:00.320 that's that's what I was saying when we talked before 0:16:00.360 --> 0:16:03.160 we started, is that I remember kids when I was 0:16:03.200 --> 0:16:06.120 in college who, let's say, sprang for the private dorm 0:16:06.200 --> 0:16:10.120 room and then oh, I can't afford the private dorm 0:16:10.200 --> 0:16:13.080 room anymore. So I've got to go to another room. 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:14.920 So you've got to you gotta pack it all up 0:16:14.920 --> 0:16:17.320 because you know you're gonna move. I've also known friends, 0:16:17.600 --> 0:16:21.960 whether in college or in their thirties, who move into 0:16:22.000 --> 0:16:26.360 a place and all seemed to take six months to 0:16:26.480 --> 0:16:30.720 unpass live out of boxes forever. So I mean, I 0:16:30.760 --> 0:16:32.840 can see, knowing that she's a twenty one year old 0:16:32.840 --> 0:16:35.920 college you know, I can see any of those being 0:16:36.080 --> 0:16:40.920 very you know, easy answers or plausible. Yeah, I don't 0:16:41.360 --> 0:16:44.440 know that it means it's not it's not clear or 0:16:45.000 --> 0:16:47.280 you know. And Joe keeps saying, I don't know if 0:16:47.320 --> 0:16:49.160 that means a whole lot. I don't know if that's pertinent. 0:16:49.480 --> 0:16:53.360 And that's kind of the big mystery around this unsolved mystery, right, 0:16:53.480 --> 0:16:55.600 is that there are a lot of details that we 0:16:55.720 --> 0:16:59.400 have and it's so unclear about what happened or what 0:16:59.560 --> 0:17:03.040 may have maybe pertinently, what may not be pertinent, that 0:17:03.160 --> 0:17:07.679 at this point it just behooves us to everything might 0:17:07.720 --> 0:17:09.720 be we can we can do that. Yeah, And of course, 0:17:09.800 --> 0:17:13.160 of course I've already drawn conclusions about what happened, so 0:17:13.560 --> 0:17:16.840 I know why. And that's why I think that that's 0:17:16.840 --> 0:17:21.280 why he's poopoo every detail you bring up exactly, I'm 0:17:21.320 --> 0:17:24.199 just saying, you're just saying it's I think I know 0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.400 what happened. So alright, well well let's let's put your 0:17:27.680 --> 0:17:32.760 your obvious conclusions. Let's we'll talk about So. Then at 0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:38.640 three forty pm, morow withdrew two and eighty dollars from 0:17:38.680 --> 0:17:41.959 an A t M. The footage shows that she was alone, 0:17:42.040 --> 0:17:45.520 at least as far as the footage was concerned. This 0:17:45.680 --> 0:17:49.520 apparently almost emptied out her entire bank account. Of course, 0:17:49.720 --> 0:17:55.240 poor college students, as you've got. Apparently, though there was 0:17:55.280 --> 0:18:02.320 a paycheck that was due shortly. Yeah. She then went 0:18:02.560 --> 0:18:06.159 and purchased about forty dollars worth of alcohol at a 0:18:06.200 --> 0:18:08.840 nearby liquor store. And I love that. That's like a 0:18:09.119 --> 0:18:12.399 like a huge field, right, like nearly forty It's like 0:18:12.400 --> 0:18:14.600 a trip to the liquor store. I could spend a 0:18:14.600 --> 0:18:19.119 lot more dollars or more in liquor store unless you 0:18:19.160 --> 0:18:22.080 buy the little itty bitty onesies that they give you, 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:25.840 which are stupidly expensive. But at forty bucks, and this 0:18:25.880 --> 0:18:29.160 is interesting, this is suspicious. Actually, she got Bailey's Irish 0:18:29.200 --> 0:18:32.000 Cream Colue vodka and a box of Frenzy one and 0:18:32.080 --> 0:18:34.200 she got all that for forty bucks. I want to 0:18:34.240 --> 0:18:36.720 go shopping at that store. Yeah, I think there's the 0:18:36.760 --> 0:18:39.400 inflation thing. Well there's that too. It was ten years ago. 0:18:39.480 --> 0:18:41.840 As ten years ago, that's a lot of booze for 0:18:41.840 --> 0:18:46.000 forty bucks, that's true. Yeah, maybe that's why she bought 0:18:46.000 --> 0:18:47.600 so much. Maybe it was all at sale and that's 0:18:47.600 --> 0:18:51.960 why she got it. Also, she maybe apparently also closed 0:18:52.000 --> 0:18:54.480 circuit footage shows that she was alone while making these 0:18:54.480 --> 0:18:59.280 purchases as well, important little tiny tidbits. Apparently also at 0:18:59.359 --> 0:19:02.199 some point at that on that day, she obtained a 0:19:02.240 --> 0:19:06.480 Registry of Motor Vehicle accident report form, which they found 0:19:06.520 --> 0:19:09.480 in her car. It was blank. It wasn't like filled 0:19:09.480 --> 0:19:13.239 out or anything like that. Procrastinator and we figured that out. Well, 0:19:13.280 --> 0:19:15.399 I don't know, that's not really procrastinating. That's just like 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.960 the day after her father asked her, hey, fill out 0:19:18.040 --> 0:19:20.359 this accident report so I can file an insurance claim. 0:19:20.920 --> 0:19:23.280 You know, I think that's fairly timely. Although I think 0:19:23.320 --> 0:19:25.840 that people tend to think that this is significant because 0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:28.239 that's not the kind of behavior that somebody has if 0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.040 they're planning to run away. Yeah, you know you're not 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:35.879 going to file the report if you're just gonna go missing. Absolutely. 0:19:36.600 --> 0:19:42.560 Mara then left Amherst, most likely via ninety Interstate ninety 0:19:42.600 --> 0:19:48.160 one north. So I think it's kind of yeah. Then 0:19:48.440 --> 0:19:53.399 she called to check her voicemail at about four thirty, 0:19:53.440 --> 0:19:56.320 which is apparently the last recorded use of her cell phone. 0:19:56.640 --> 0:20:00.679 There's no indication that she had formed informed anybody of 0:20:00.680 --> 0:20:03.719 where she was going at this point. All right, so 0:20:03.760 --> 0:20:05.359 I know as she's headed off to the two to 0:20:05.480 --> 0:20:07.439 the sticks too, with a lot of booze to have 0:20:07.480 --> 0:20:13.760 a party. Maybe sounds like sometime after seven pm. Sometime 0:20:13.840 --> 0:20:19.240 after seven pm in Woodsville, New Hampshire, a resident there 0:20:19.800 --> 0:20:23.680 heard a loud thump outside of her house. Looking outside 0:20:23.680 --> 0:20:26.960 her window, she saw a black Saturn sedan much like 0:20:27.080 --> 0:20:31.440 the one that Maro owned. Was the one owned? Yeah, 0:20:32.080 --> 0:20:35.320 it was up against a snowbank along Route one twelve. 0:20:35.840 --> 0:20:38.639 The car was pointing west on the eastbound side of 0:20:38.680 --> 0:20:41.920 the road. Okay, evidence of bad driving, evidence of really 0:20:42.600 --> 0:20:45.480 two days in a row? Yes, so she called us. 0:20:45.880 --> 0:20:49.680 Well it was more like, yeah, yeah, three days in 0:20:49.680 --> 0:20:52.719 a row or something within a week. Yeah, she had 0:20:52.760 --> 0:20:58.000 a real talent for wrecking card. Yeah, she hated that car. Yes, 0:20:58.280 --> 0:21:01.240 she did see further proof that she wanted anyone. You 0:21:01.240 --> 0:21:02.959 know what I think. I think she disappeared and want 0:21:03.000 --> 0:21:04.680 to live in a little island somewhere where they don't 0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:08.119 have cars. Yeah, she just hated cars. She wanted to 0:21:08.200 --> 0:21:13.639 kill them. Yeah. The neighbor who's always unnamed, phoned the 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:19.600 Gafton County Sheriff's Department, graft Grafton. I don't know why 0:21:19.640 --> 0:21:23.719 I keep leaving out letters trying to pronounce you just 0:21:23.720 --> 0:21:26.960 don't like the letter R today it's true or the 0:21:27.080 --> 0:21:34.480 word letter she did like earlier. Okay, so at is 0:21:34.520 --> 0:21:38.879 when they have the record of this accident report. About 0:21:38.880 --> 0:21:43.120 the same time, another neighbor saw the Saturn and uh 0:21:43.920 --> 0:21:46.720 reported that there was somebody walking around the vehicle and 0:21:47.119 --> 0:21:51.600 saw a third neighbor slash witness pull up alongside the Saturn. 0:21:51.920 --> 0:21:54.679 The third witness was the school bus driver. Yeah, he 0:21:54.720 --> 0:21:56.800 was the school bus driver who was returning home and 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.840 he said that he noticed a young woman who was 0:22:00.240 --> 0:22:03.920 bleeding but was cold and shivering. He offered to telephone 0:22:03.920 --> 0:22:07.880 for help. Um she asked some some reports. They pleaded, 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:11.800 but she asked him to not call the police and 0:22:12.160 --> 0:22:15.720 said that she had already called Triple A, although Triple 0:22:15.720 --> 0:22:19.240 A has no record of any calls. This is compounded 0:22:19.280 --> 0:22:21.040 by the fact that there is no cell phone reception 0:22:21.080 --> 0:22:23.720 in the area, which the resident, of course knew, so 0:22:23.800 --> 0:22:27.080 he went home and phoned the police. His call was 0:22:27.160 --> 0:22:30.560 received by the Sheriff's department at seven forty three pm, 0:22:30.840 --> 0:22:33.600 and he said he was unable to see Mara's car 0:22:33.680 --> 0:22:36.080 while he made the phone call, but did notice several 0:22:36.119 --> 0:22:40.359 cars passing on the road before police arrived. So before 0:22:40.400 --> 0:22:42.200 you go, I wanted to say one thing that I 0:22:42.480 --> 0:22:48.320 do find funny about his description is that she was 0:22:48.359 --> 0:22:52.920 not bleeding, but cold and shivering. Okay, well, yeah, it's 0:22:52.920 --> 0:22:58.840 it's February in Massachusetts. Massachusetts has But the other thing 0:22:59.000 --> 0:23:02.000 is I've been in a car accident before, have either 0:23:02.080 --> 0:23:06.840 of you. But depends what what what automatically happens. You 0:23:07.000 --> 0:23:11.600 get an adrenal rush and you you you automatically You've 0:23:11.760 --> 0:23:15.680 always got that little bit of a jittery. Yeah, I 0:23:15.720 --> 0:23:18.000 mean it's I've you know, I've done I've had close 0:23:18.080 --> 0:23:21.080 calls and you get that rush and you're you're gonna shake. 0:23:21.160 --> 0:23:26.360 So I don't know that the shivering we denote cold. Yeah, 0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:28.800 I think that it's mostly that you shook up more 0:23:28.840 --> 0:23:32.480 than anything. Now does that mean anything? No, But again, 0:23:32.560 --> 0:23:34.959 this is one of those things that everybody says cold 0:23:35.040 --> 0:23:38.399 and shivering. I'm like, uh no, she just totally spun 0:23:38.440 --> 0:23:40.840 her car around at least a hundred eighty degrees or 0:23:41.320 --> 0:23:46.160 that's just it's just a witness, you know, sort of projecting. Yeah, 0:23:46.560 --> 0:23:51.320 but you rolled down the window. Who it's cold, therefore 0:23:51.320 --> 0:23:54.439 your cold. Yeah, but anyway, it doesn't it doesn't mean anything. 0:23:54.440 --> 0:23:55.919 But I want to call it out because it's one 0:23:55.920 --> 0:23:58.080 of the Again, it's one of those things everybody says 0:23:58.119 --> 0:24:01.600 she was shivering because she was cold. I'm standing out 0:24:01.640 --> 0:24:04.159 on the side of the road. Know that that's always 0:24:04.160 --> 0:24:08.000 the correct interpretation. Yeah, And this story is so much interpretation. Yeah, 0:24:08.040 --> 0:24:09.919 and it's it's hard to tell also because you know, 0:24:09.960 --> 0:24:12.080 he doesn't say, oh, and she was wearing a tank 0:24:12.119 --> 0:24:15.600