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Speaker 1: Hey, guys, We've had a lot of requests for the

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Speaker 1: show that um we did this week, and I know

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Speaker 1: a lot of people are really interested in this case.

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Speaker 1: But before we start, I wanted to quickly address why

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Speaker 1: we haven't done this particular mystery yet. It's my fault, Seriously.

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Speaker 1: I have this kind of short list of quote unsolved

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Speaker 1: unquote mysteries that I don't really want to do um

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason. We get requests for them and we

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Speaker 1: add them to the list, UM, but we kind of

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Speaker 1: know we won't get to them. Mar Murray was on

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Speaker 1: that list almost since the inception of this show. She's

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Speaker 1: been on the list, but we keep getting requests for it,

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Speaker 1: and often they're from listeners who suggested many other really

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Speaker 1: compelling mysteries. Mar Murray has always kind of been a

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Speaker 1: clear cut case in my mind. Mar Murray twenty one

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Speaker 1: ran away from home for reasons I have always admitted

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Speaker 1: to be unknown. She no longer wanted to participate in

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Speaker 1: her life and just walked away from it. I lived

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Speaker 1: and worked in Stockford's, Massachusetts for a while, and I

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Speaker 1: have holidayed Amhurst a number of times, and I thought

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Speaker 1: I understood Mara, but I'm pretty sure I'm wrong, thinking sideways.

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Speaker 1: I don't understand. You never know stories of things. We

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Speaker 1: simply don't know the answer too. Hey, it's thinking sunyways

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Speaker 1: the podcast. Thanks for joining us. I'm Devin, I'm Joe,

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Speaker 1: I'm Steve, and we're gonna definitely not even close to

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Speaker 1: solve a mystery tonight. Yeah, we'll shed a little light

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Speaker 1: on things. That's the best we'll do. That's the best

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Speaker 1: we're getting right there. I think without without a bunch

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Speaker 1: of dogs, you know, like like you know, snipping dogs

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that in a time machine and a

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Speaker 1: time machine. But yeah, well, basically what we need to

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Speaker 1: do is go out to that where the disappearance took

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Speaker 1: place and dig everything up for miles around. I feel

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Speaker 1: like that's already been done somehow, No, I think. Okay,

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Speaker 1: so tonight we're finally getting around to doing the disappearance

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Speaker 1: of mar Murray. So where would you like to start?

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Speaker 1: I guess we'll start where most people start, and that

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Speaker 1: is the credit card fraud, MA credit card. Well, yeah,

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Speaker 1: although this, let me be up front about this, I

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Speaker 1: don't think the credit card fraud had much to do

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Speaker 1: with her disappearance at all. Sure, you know, let's let's

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Speaker 1: just jump into it. So, yeah, let's just go for it.

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Speaker 1: So in November of two thousand three, three months prior

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Speaker 1: to her disappearance, Mara Murray used a discontinued credit card

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Speaker 1: number to order eighty dollars worth of pizza. Discontinued. That

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Speaker 1: means it's hers, but it was a closed account. Discontinued

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Speaker 1: means it wasn't hers, And it was also a closed account.

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Speaker 1: It's a really nice way of saying she committed credit

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Speaker 1: card fraud. Okay, how did she manage to run the card? Yeah,

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Speaker 1: as far as I understand it, Uh, you know, in

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Speaker 1: two thousand three, it's not true. Maybe that was when

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Speaker 1: they just had a little machine, remember, Yeah, and then

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Speaker 1: you know amherst It's totally possible that that was the case,

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Speaker 1: and I did it, wasn't she stole credit card numbers

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Speaker 1: or credit cards from fellow students at U. Mass charges

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Speaker 1: we're going to be dropped against her following three months

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Speaker 1: of good behavior after her trial, which was in December.

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Speaker 1: It's pretty unclear to me if this had anything to

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Speaker 1: do with her disappearance, because there was no time served

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Speaker 1: and it's not really going to impact her life too terribly. Much.

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Speaker 1: You know, this is the sort of thing. It's eighty

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Speaker 1: dollars on a credit card for pizza. Small thing. Jump

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Speaker 1: forward four days prior to her February ninth disappearance. That

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Speaker 1: means it was February five that this happened. Mara spoke

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Speaker 1: with her sister on the phone while she was on

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Speaker 1: break from her job on campus. She was she worked

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Speaker 1: at the security desk. Is my understanding. She apparently spoke

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Speaker 1: with her sister about her sister's relationship problems she and

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Speaker 1: her they were having problems with her fiance, apparently, and

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Speaker 1: a few hours after returning to work, Mara broke down,

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Speaker 1: crying so much so that her work supervisor had to

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Speaker 1: escort her back to her dorm room. No, correct me

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Speaker 1: if I'm wrong. I seemed to remember in some of

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Speaker 1: the reading that after she had got off the phone

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Speaker 1: with her sister, I swear I saw something that she

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Speaker 1: had gotten another phone call which caused her to break down.

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Speaker 1: That's my understanding of fairly mysterious. I think that stance

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Speaker 1: this is all, you know. The problem is that, like

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Speaker 1: most of this is kind of hearsay or you know,

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Speaker 1: it's that the cell phone records showed that she had

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Speaker 1: just spoken to her sister, or she just said she

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Speaker 1: spoke to her sister, and the cell phone records showed

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Speaker 1: that she had actually received another call. It's a little well,

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Speaker 1: not everything's released. It's not because it's an ongoing investigation. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I think the police files are still still still still

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Speaker 1: not all of them, but some of them certainly are.

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Speaker 1: Maura never discussed why. She refused to talk about why

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Speaker 1: she was so upset, you know. Of course, her supervisor

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Speaker 1: said she was just emotional. It's possible, you know, that

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Speaker 1: happens sometimes, but it seems it seemed like it struck

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Speaker 1: people out of character. For her. Well, yeah, I'm at

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Speaker 1: work and suddenly I break down into a full blown

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Speaker 1: crying jag. That's not normal behavior. I agree, if you're

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Speaker 1: a particularly emotional person, maybe, but there's that, like, you know,

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Speaker 1: the death in the family. I don't make you cry.

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Speaker 1: Two days before she disappeared, so that would be the seventh,

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Speaker 1: her father arrived in town. Her father is kind of

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Speaker 1: a character in these stories for a lot of different

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Speaker 1: reasons that will discuss most of later, but he says

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Speaker 1: that he and Marrow were shopping for used car for

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Speaker 1: her because it turns out that perhaps her Saturn was

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Speaker 1: a bet of a lemon. Yeah, she was having some

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Speaker 1: car problems. I don't know. I'm not sure exactly what.

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Speaker 1: I saw one that had a blown cylinder. I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that means like a blown head gasket or

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Speaker 1: what it no idea. But the trouble with this little

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Speaker 1: bit of information is that friends and Mara's boyfriend say

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Speaker 1: they don't remember her mentioning going car shopping at all.

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Speaker 1: And that's the sort of thing that you kind of

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Speaker 1: excitedly talk about with your friends. Usually, if you're going

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Speaker 1: to get a car, you're usually like, oh, my dad

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Speaker 1: and I are car shopping. You know, if she's having

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Speaker 1: a huge problem with her car in a place like Amhurst,

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Speaker 1: where you you kind of drive most places, you're going

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Speaker 1: to probably off handedly mention it to at least one person.

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Speaker 1: Unless she just wanted to get the car fixed. It

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Speaker 1: could be that she, let's say, she really liked that

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Speaker 1: car and Dad, I just need you to fix it.

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Speaker 1: And Dad says, know that the thing is a lemon,

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Speaker 1: and I keep dumping money into it. We're just getting

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Speaker 1: you a different car. Well, then you would complain to

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Speaker 1: your friends about how that's true. It is making you

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Speaker 1: get true. You know, I think that's that's one of

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Speaker 1: those like little tidbits of most people seem to not

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Speaker 1: actually believe that they were car shopping. Yeah, but I don't.

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Speaker 1: You know, again, this is a one of the big

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Speaker 1: problems with this whole story is that it's just he said,

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Speaker 1: she said. I'm inclined to believe her to be. But

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Speaker 1: you know, she might have like not told people just

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Speaker 1: because she wanted to surprise and surprise people by showing

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Speaker 1: up in the new car one day. Or maybe she

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Speaker 1: was embarrassed about the fact that her she needed a

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Speaker 1: new car but her dad had to buy it for yeah,

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Speaker 1: Or she was going to get a used car. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's kind of one of those

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Speaker 1: one or another things. Either way, he later dropped her off,

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Speaker 1: they went out to dinner, you know, did father daughter stuff.

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Speaker 1: Then he loaned her his car, a new Toyota, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and she was going to take it. She drove him

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Speaker 1: back to his hotel room and then took it and

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Speaker 1: went to a party that night and apparently got a

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Speaker 1: little tipsy. Maybe it's unclear, but she attempted to drive

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Speaker 1: the car back to her father's hotel room, which people

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Speaker 1: think is is weird, but I think there's fair explanations

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Speaker 1: for it, I guess. But actually she ended up just

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Speaker 1: crashing it into a card rail instead, worth the damage

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Speaker 1: to the car something like that. Yeah. The police arrived

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Speaker 1: on the scene of the crash and questioned her, but

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Speaker 1: didn't administer any sobriety tests or arrest her, which is

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Speaker 1: weird in a college town. Yes, in a college town cops,

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Speaker 1: that's one of the first things they do when it's

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Speaker 1: nighttime and you've had an accident, they check you for

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Speaker 1: booze because you're a student and you were probably drinking.

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Speaker 1: So we'll talk about this in a little bit too,

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Speaker 1: because the guy who responded maybe was had some stuff

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Speaker 1: going on in his own I I kind of think

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Speaker 1: that sounds to me like it's February in Massachusetts. She

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Speaker 1: probably hit a patch of ice and just crashed into

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Speaker 1: the guardrail, and then you know, he saw the ice

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Speaker 1: and said, oh, you hit that patch of ice. Great, fine,

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Speaker 1: you know. On the other hand, I don't. I don't know.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of things that could have been going

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Speaker 1: on there. Either way, They called the tow truck and

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Speaker 1: the cop gave Maura a ride back to her father's

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Speaker 1: hotel room at about four forty five in the morning.

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Speaker 1: That morning, she called her boyfriend from the hotel room

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Speaker 1: to talk with him about the accident in alcohol. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: he lived about me and he was like two times,

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Speaker 1: so it was like two forty five in the morning

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Speaker 1: where he was at. I bet he appreciated that. Well,

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Speaker 1: it was four forty five for her. You know, it's

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Speaker 1: kind of that's a weird time to call somebody either way.

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Speaker 1: Although I guess if you just had a car accident,

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Speaker 1: you don't think about that. You just grabbed the phone

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Speaker 1: and call. Yeah, although god, you're not gonna believe it

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Speaker 1: just happened. Okay, But the car crash was at like two,

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Speaker 1: so there were two hours in the remaining Yeah, so

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Speaker 1: who knows. The next morning, her father, Fred determined that

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Speaker 1: the damage um that she had done to the car

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Speaker 1: would be covered under his insurance plans, so he rented

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Speaker 1: a car, dropped more often her dorm room, and drove home.

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Speaker 1: He called Maura later that evening. It's always says later

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Speaker 1: that evening, but it was like eleven thirty at night. Again,

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Speaker 1: there's a lot of weird time stuff happening here. Ut

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Speaker 1: called her to discuss how to file the insurance report

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Speaker 1: because she had been driving and she needed to do

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Speaker 1: some of the reporting, And they decided that they would

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Speaker 1: talk more later, like on Monday. And of course this

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Speaker 1: information all comes from him. Around midnight on February nine,

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Speaker 1: shortly after speaking to her father, so it was right

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Speaker 1: after she'd gotten off the phone with him about the

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Speaker 1: insurance claim, Mara used her personal computer to search map quest. Yes,

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Speaker 1: it was the early two thousand's and that was the

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Speaker 1: best direction website, That's what it was. She was looking

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Speaker 1: for directions to both the Berk Shares and Burlington Vermont,

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Speaker 1: both awesome places. So later that afternoon, at like one pm,

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Speaker 1: she emailed her boyfriend quote, I got your messages, but

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Speaker 1: honestly I don't feel like talking too much of anyone.

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Speaker 1: I promised to call today though unquote. Also around one

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Speaker 1: she made a phone call to enquire about renting a

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Speaker 1: condo in UH in Bartlett, New Hampshire. Apparently she had

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Speaker 1: vacation there before with her family. The telephone records seemed

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Speaker 1: to indicate that the call lasted three minutes UH and

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Speaker 1: she did not successfully rent a condo. Mara then called

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Speaker 1: a fellow nursing student for reasons unknown, which is my

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Speaker 1: favorite unsolved mystery term out. It's unclear if that means

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Speaker 1: that Maura connected with the student and the student is

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Speaker 1: like refusing to say what they talked about, or if

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Speaker 1: the student just never answered. I'm assuming that she just

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Speaker 1: never answered. The interviewed the student. The student just said

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Speaker 1: that we just talked about crape, nothing important and stuff. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: exactly at all, twenty one year old college student girls did.

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Speaker 1: Mara emailed the work supervisor of hers at the nursing

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Speaker 1: school and also her nursing school faculty advisors and professors,

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Speaker 1: saying that she had to leave town for a week

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Speaker 1: due to a death in her family, and that she

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Speaker 1: would contact them when she returned. However, nobody and her

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Speaker 1: family had died, well except her. That's suspicious. It was

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Speaker 1: a little suspicious. I don't think I mean earlier, seriously,

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Speaker 1: have any you know, lots and lots of people tell

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Speaker 1: tell lies to get out of work for whatever reason.

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Speaker 1: They call in sick when they're not for like a

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Speaker 1: day though. Yeah, yeah, that's a long span of time.

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Speaker 1: It is big exaggeration. She just really needed to get away. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: so then at too she called a number that provides

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Speaker 1: a prerecorded information about booking hotels in Vermont, Stowe, Vermont.

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Speaker 1: I think it's the East coast. They say, all the

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Speaker 1: things they use all vals. Might be let's call it

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Speaker 1: somewhere in Vermont. She listened to the information for about

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Speaker 1: five minutes, which is a really long time to listen

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Speaker 1: to that kind of information. And you know, I've been

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Speaker 1: stuck in those telephone trees before. Press one to do this,

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Speaker 1: Press two to do that. I press three, crowd it's

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Speaker 1: the wrong one. Press nine to go back, nine to

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Speaker 1: go back, start over. I mean, we've all been on

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Speaker 1: those prerecorded systems where you feel like you're in there forever.

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Speaker 1: I just thought it was like the weather service one

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Speaker 1: that you can call that says for your area code

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Speaker 1: the weather is, and you know, it's just like on

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Speaker 1: a minute loop or something. But if it's for booking hotels,

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Speaker 1: it might have been listing hotel in an area, so

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Speaker 1: she got to navigate through it to find the area

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Speaker 1: and then get the list of hotels. Anyway, I don't

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Speaker 1: know how relevant this is so, but it may or

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Speaker 1: may not be. A few minutes later, at to eighteen,

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Speaker 1: she telephoned her boyfriend and left a voicemail that essentially

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Speaker 1: said they would talk later, and it was just under

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Speaker 1: a minute long. That message, like most voicemails are. Yes.

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Speaker 1: In her car, she packed the things that you would

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Speaker 1: typically pack on a trip, um, you know, clothes, toiletries,

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Speaker 1: college textbooks, all that stuff. I don't take college textbush

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Speaker 1: when I travel, well, because you're not a college student. Weird, Okay,

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Speaker 1: it's so weird. Yeah, well, well that apparently when her

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Speaker 1: room was searched after her disappearance her dorm room, they

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Speaker 1: found that all of her belongings were packed in boxes. Um,

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Speaker 1: you know, things like the art that was on the

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Speaker 1: walls had been removed. It's apparently disputed whether she had

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Speaker 1: packed them that day or if they were still packed

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Speaker 1: from her recent She had just gotten back from winter break,

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Speaker 1: and we talked about this a little bit and debated

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Speaker 1: back and forth. It's my feeling that you don't pack

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Speaker 1: things up over winter break generally, so changing rooms. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's that's what I was saying when we talked before

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Speaker 1: we started, is that I remember kids when I was

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Speaker 1: in college who, let's say, sprang for the private dorm

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Speaker 1: room and then oh, I can't afford the private dorm

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Speaker 1: room anymore. So I've got to go to another room.

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Speaker 1: So you've got to you gotta pack it all up

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Speaker 1: because you know you're gonna move. I've also known friends,

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Speaker 1: whether in college or in their thirties, who move into

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Speaker 1: a place and all seemed to take six months to

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Speaker 1: unpass live out of boxes forever. So I mean, I

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Speaker 1: can see, knowing that she's a twenty one year old

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Speaker 1: college you know, I can see any of those being

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Speaker 1: very you know, easy answers or plausible. Yeah, I don't

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Speaker 1: know that it means it's not it's not clear or

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Speaker 1: you know. And Joe keeps saying, I don't know if

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Speaker 1: that means a whole lot. I don't know if that's pertinent.

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Speaker 1: And that's kind of the big mystery around this unsolved mystery, right,

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Speaker 1: is that there are a lot of details that we

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Speaker 1: have and it's so unclear about what happened or what

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Speaker 1: may have maybe pertinently, what may not be pertinent, that

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Speaker 1: at this point it just behooves us to everything might

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Speaker 1: be we can we can do that. Yeah, And of course,

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Speaker 1: of course I've already drawn conclusions about what happened, so

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Speaker 1: I know why. And that's why I think that that's

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Speaker 1: why he's poopoo every detail you bring up exactly, I'm

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Speaker 1: just saying, you're just saying it's I think I know

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Speaker 1: what happened. So alright, well well let's let's put your

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Speaker 1: your obvious conclusions. Let's we'll talk about So. Then at

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Speaker 1: three forty pm, morow withdrew two and eighty dollars from

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Speaker 1: an A t M. The footage shows that she was alone,

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Speaker 1: at least as far as the footage was concerned. This

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Speaker 1: apparently almost emptied out her entire bank account. Of course,

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Speaker 1: poor college students, as you've got. Apparently, though there was

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Speaker 1: a paycheck that was due shortly. Yeah. She then went

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Speaker 1: and purchased about forty dollars worth of alcohol at a

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Speaker 1: nearby liquor store. And I love that. That's like a

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Speaker 1: like a huge field, right, like nearly forty It's like

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Speaker 1: a trip to the liquor store. I could spend a

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Speaker 1: lot more dollars or more in liquor store unless you

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Speaker 1: buy the little itty bitty onesies that they give you,

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Speaker 1: which are stupidly expensive. But at forty bucks, and this

304
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Speaker 1: is interesting, this is suspicious. Actually, she got Bailey's Irish

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Speaker 1: Cream Colue vodka and a box of Frenzy one and

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Speaker 1: she got all that for forty bucks. I want to

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Speaker 1: go shopping at that store. Yeah, I think there's the

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Speaker 1: inflation thing. Well there's that too. It was ten years ago.

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Speaker 1: As ten years ago, that's a lot of booze for

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Speaker 1: forty bucks, that's true. Yeah, maybe that's why she bought

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Speaker 1: so much. Maybe it was all at sale and that's

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Speaker 1: why she got it. Also, she maybe apparently also closed

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Speaker 1: circuit footage shows that she was alone while making these

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Speaker 1: purchases as well, important little tiny tidbits. Apparently also at

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Speaker 1: some point at that on that day, she obtained a

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Speaker 1: Registry of Motor Vehicle accident report form, which they found

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Speaker 1: in her car. It was blank. It wasn't like filled

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Speaker 1: out or anything like that. Procrastinator and we figured that out. Well,

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Speaker 1: I don't know, that's not really procrastinating. That's just like

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Speaker 1: the day after her father asked her, hey, fill out

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Speaker 1: this accident report so I can file an insurance claim.

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Speaker 1: You know, I think that's fairly timely. Although I think

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Speaker 1: that people tend to think that this is significant because

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Speaker 1: that's not the kind of behavior that somebody has if

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Speaker 1: they're planning to run away. Yeah, you know you're not

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Speaker 1: going to file the report if you're just gonna go missing. Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: Mara then left Amherst, most likely via ninety Interstate ninety

328
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Speaker 1: one north. So I think it's kind of yeah. Then

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Speaker 1: she called to check her voicemail at about four thirty,

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Speaker 1: which is apparently the last recorded use of her cell phone.

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Speaker 1: There's no indication that she had formed informed anybody of

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Speaker 1: where she was going at this point. All right, so

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Speaker 1: I know as she's headed off to the two to

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Speaker 1: the sticks too, with a lot of booze to have

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Speaker 1: a party. Maybe sounds like sometime after seven pm. Sometime

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Speaker 1: after seven pm in Woodsville, New Hampshire, a resident there

337
00:20:19,800 --> 00:20:23,680
Speaker 1: heard a loud thump outside of her house. Looking outside

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Speaker 1: her window, she saw a black Saturn sedan much like

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Speaker 1: the one that Maro owned. Was the one owned? Yeah,

340
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Speaker 1: it was up against a snowbank along Route one twelve.

341
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Speaker 1: The car was pointing west on the eastbound side of

342
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Speaker 1: the road. Okay, evidence of bad driving, evidence of really

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Speaker 1: two days in a row? Yes, so she called us.

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Speaker 1: Well it was more like, yeah, yeah, three days in

345
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Speaker 1: a row or something within a week. Yeah, she had

346
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Speaker 1: a real talent for wrecking card. Yeah, she hated that car. Yes,

347
00:20:58,280 --> 00:21:01,240
Speaker 1: she did see further proof that she wanted anyone. You

348
00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:02,959
Speaker 1: know what I think. I think she disappeared and want

349
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Speaker 1: to live in a little island somewhere where they don't

350
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Speaker 1: have cars. Yeah, she just hated cars. She wanted to

351
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Speaker 1: kill them. Yeah. The neighbor who's always unnamed, phoned the

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Speaker 1: Gafton County Sheriff's Department, graft Grafton. I don't know why

353
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Speaker 1: I keep leaving out letters trying to pronounce you just

354
00:21:23,720 --> 00:21:26,960
Speaker 1: don't like the letter R today it's true or the

355
00:21:27,080 --> 00:21:34,480
Speaker 1: word letter she did like earlier. Okay, so at is

356
00:21:34,520 --> 00:21:38,879
Speaker 1: when they have the record of this accident report. About

357
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:43,120
Speaker 1: the same time, another neighbor saw the Saturn and uh

358
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Speaker 1: reported that there was somebody walking around the vehicle and

359
00:21:47,119 --> 00:21:51,600
Speaker 1: saw a third neighbor slash witness pull up alongside the Saturn.

360
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Speaker 1: The third witness was the school bus driver. Yeah, he

361
00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:56,800
Speaker 1: was the school bus driver who was returning home and

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Speaker 1: he said that he noticed a young woman who was

363
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Speaker 1: bleeding but was cold and shivering. He offered to telephone

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Speaker 1: for help. Um she asked some some reports. They pleaded,

365
00:22:08,640 --> 00:22:11,800
Speaker 1: but she asked him to not call the police and

366
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Speaker 1: said that she had already called Triple A, although Triple

367
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Speaker 1: A has no record of any calls. This is compounded

368
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Speaker 1: by the fact that there is no cell phone reception

369
00:22:21,080 --> 00:22:23,720
Speaker 1: in the area, which the resident, of course knew, so

370
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Speaker 1: he went home and phoned the police. His call was

371
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Speaker 1: received by the Sheriff's department at seven forty three pm,

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Speaker 1: and he said he was unable to see Mara's car

373
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Speaker 1: while he made the phone call, but did notice several

374
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Speaker 1: cars passing on the road before police arrived. So before

375
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Speaker 1: you go, I wanted to say one thing that I

376
00:22:42,480 --> 00:22:48,320
Speaker 1: do find funny about his description is that she was

377
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Speaker 1: not bleeding, but cold and shivering. Okay, well, yeah, it's

378
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Speaker 1: it's February in Massachusetts. Massachusetts has But the other thing

379
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Speaker 1: is I've been in a car accident before, have either

380
00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:06,840
Speaker 1: of you. But depends what what what automatically happens. You

381
00:23:07,000 --> 00:23:11,600
Speaker 1: get an adrenal rush and you you you automatically You've

382
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:15,680
Speaker 1: always got that little bit of a jittery. Yeah, I

383
00:23:15,720 --> 00:23:18,000
Speaker 1: mean it's I've you know, I've done I've had close

384
00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: calls and you get that rush and you're you're gonna shake.

385
00:23:21,160 --> 00:23:26,360
Speaker 1: So I don't know that the shivering we denote cold. Yeah,

386
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:28,800
Speaker 1: I think that it's mostly that you shook up more

387
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Speaker 1: than anything. Now does that mean anything? No, But again,

388
00:23:32,560 --> 00:23:34,959
Speaker 1: this is one of those things that everybody says cold

389
00:23:35,040 --> 00:23:38,399
Speaker 1: and shivering. I'm like, uh no, she just totally spun

390
00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,840
Speaker 1: her car around at least a hundred eighty degrees or

391
00:23:41,320 --> 00:23:46,160
Speaker 1: that's just it's just a witness, you know, sort of projecting. Yeah,

392
00:23:46,560 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: but you rolled down the window. Who it's cold, therefore

393
00:23:51,320 --> 00:23:54,439
Speaker 1: your cold. Yeah, but anyway, it doesn't it doesn't mean anything.

394
00:23:54,440 --> 00:23:55,919
Speaker 1: But I want to call it out because it's one

395
00:23:55,920 --> 00:23:58,080
Speaker 1: of the Again, it's one of those things everybody says

396
00:23:58,119 --> 00:24:01,600
Speaker 1: she was shivering because she was cold. I'm standing out

397
00:24:01,640 --> 00:24:04,159
Speaker 1: on the side of the road. Know that that's always

398
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:08,000
Speaker 1: the correct interpretation. Yeah, And this story is so much interpretation. Yeah,

399
00:24:08,040 --> 00:24:09,919
Speaker 1: and it's it's hard to tell also because you know,

400
00:24:09,960 --> 00:24:12,080
Speaker 1: he doesn't say, oh, and she was wearing a tank

401
00:24:12,119 --> 00:24:15,600
Speaker 1: top or oh she was you know, like there's no

402
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:19,040
Speaker 1: description of like he doesn't ever say and none of

403
00:24:19,080 --> 00:24:21,400
Speaker 1: the reports I've read did he say what she was wearing.

404
00:24:22,200 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: So that's an interesting little Did he say the thing

405
00:24:24,520 --> 00:24:27,199
Speaker 1: about whether she had the emergency blinkers on or she

406
00:24:27,240 --> 00:24:29,720
Speaker 1: put any flares out or anything like that. Nothing doesn't

407
00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:31,679
Speaker 1: mean if you look at I was able to actually

408
00:24:31,680 --> 00:24:34,159
Speaker 1: get get onto this guy's blog who's done quite a

409
00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:37,600
Speaker 1: bit of investigation into this and that particular little curve,

410
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:39,760
Speaker 1: that little road there, there's no shoulders, so she was

411
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:42,240
Speaker 1: in the road. Yeah, you know, and it would have

412
00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:44,679
Speaker 1: if I were me, I would the first thing I

413
00:24:44,720 --> 00:24:47,360
Speaker 1: do is put some flares out. You would, you would

414
00:24:47,400 --> 00:24:52,880
Speaker 1: have flares. I mean, you know, I don't know. I'm

415
00:24:52,920 --> 00:24:55,200
Speaker 1: a middle aged man and I don't have flares in Mike,

416
00:24:55,359 --> 00:24:57,560
Speaker 1: but I would put my emergency but I would put

417
00:24:57,560 --> 00:25:00,880
Speaker 1: the blinkers on certainly. Yeah. Okay, Well, I guess it's

418
00:25:00,880 --> 00:25:02,959
Speaker 1: not that relevant anyway, because we know what happened. So

419
00:25:03,000 --> 00:25:08,199
Speaker 1: at seven six, just three minutes after the bus driver phoned,

420
00:25:08,880 --> 00:25:12,600
Speaker 1: and it's it's not actually uh but actually nineteen minutes

421
00:25:12,640 --> 00:25:15,680
Speaker 1: after the first call at But so I guess it's

422
00:25:15,680 --> 00:25:18,439
Speaker 1: significant in that it's it's not said how long it

423
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:20,760
Speaker 1: took the school bus driver to get from the crash

424
00:25:20,840 --> 00:25:22,920
Speaker 1: to his house. But it doesn't sound like he lives

425
00:25:23,000 --> 00:25:25,760
Speaker 1: very far. It doesn't, but I think he actually lived

426
00:25:25,760 --> 00:25:28,000
Speaker 1: within eyesight of the of the crash. He said he

427
00:25:28,040 --> 00:25:31,200
Speaker 1: couldn't see it from his house. Yeah, so I read

428
00:25:31,200 --> 00:25:33,280
Speaker 1: a different account where he said he'd actually went home

429
00:25:33,320 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: to his home and parked his school bus in such

430
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 1: a way that he was able to actually look back

431
00:25:36,800 --> 00:25:38,960
Speaker 1: down the road and see the colle You couldn't see

432
00:25:39,000 --> 00:25:41,440
Speaker 1: it from the house, but maybe couldn't see it from that. Yeah,

433
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,400
Speaker 1: It's just I think it would be interesting to know

434
00:25:43,680 --> 00:25:47,760
Speaker 1: the time in between. Well, it was about twenty minutes apparently,

435
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:49,600
Speaker 1: I guess, because a lot of people have said, like,

436
00:25:49,920 --> 00:25:54,359
Speaker 1: how could she possibly disappear? Because because she was there

437
00:25:54,400 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: and then just a few minutes later that the police arrived,

438
00:25:57,000 --> 00:25:58,439
Speaker 1: how could she had disappeared at that time? But now

439
00:25:58,520 --> 00:26:00,400
Speaker 1: it was more like twenty minutes. I guess. There's also

440
00:26:00,440 --> 00:26:03,760
Speaker 1: a further question here, right of like, he's a school

441
00:26:03,760 --> 00:26:07,200
Speaker 1: bus driver. This is a poor, like twenty one year

442
00:26:07,240 --> 00:26:11,639
Speaker 1: old girl shivering having a car crash. Why in the

443
00:26:11,680 --> 00:26:15,640
Speaker 1: world did he not say, Hey, come with me, we'll

444
00:26:15,640 --> 00:26:17,960
Speaker 1: call the cops and then we'll come back and wait together.

445
00:26:18,520 --> 00:26:21,200
Speaker 1: You're obviously cold, I can, you know, like you can

446
00:26:21,240 --> 00:26:24,600
Speaker 1: because she's a one year old college student and it's

447
00:26:24,600 --> 00:26:27,920
Speaker 1: a creepy old dude in a school bus. I got,

448
00:26:28,080 --> 00:26:29,680
Speaker 1: you know, It's just kind of one of those like

449
00:26:31,800 --> 00:26:35,359
Speaker 1: I've I've had what would seemed like perfectly nice people

450
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: pull over when I've broken down, and you know, I

451
00:26:39,840 --> 00:26:43,399
Speaker 1: was with somebody else at the time, and they're like, hey,

452
00:26:43,600 --> 00:26:45,479
Speaker 1: do you want some help. I don't have a phone,

453
00:26:45,520 --> 00:26:48,120
Speaker 1: but I could take you somewhere to call. Hey, that'd

454
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,320
Speaker 1: be great. Well, I can only take one of you

455
00:26:50,400 --> 00:26:55,119
Speaker 1: because I only have room for one. No, yeah, thanks, fair,

456
00:26:55,359 --> 00:26:57,560
Speaker 1: that's fair. But you know, I guess for me, like

457
00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:03,040
Speaker 1: he doesn't even mention like I offered. You should have

458
00:27:03,160 --> 00:27:05,320
Speaker 1: offered at least it would have been fine if she

459
00:27:05,400 --> 00:27:10,040
Speaker 1: said no, but well maybe offered to help maybe, And

460
00:27:10,119 --> 00:27:14,040
Speaker 1: maybe he did and she turned it down and just

461
00:27:14,240 --> 00:27:18,439
Speaker 1: didn't get written down and copied and tasted the internet.

462
00:27:18,800 --> 00:27:21,159
Speaker 1: But it is it's a it's a little interesting that

463
00:27:21,240 --> 00:27:23,719
Speaker 1: she was out in the road and there was there

464
00:27:23,760 --> 00:27:25,639
Speaker 1: was a house very close by. There were lots of

465
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:27,879
Speaker 1: houses and she could have walked up to any of

466
00:27:27,880 --> 00:27:29,760
Speaker 1: them and just you know, asked to ask them to

467
00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:32,360
Speaker 1: call a tow truck or whatever, and she didn't do that.

468
00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:38,600
Speaker 1: So that's that's a bit of a puzzler. Yes, anyway,

469
00:27:39,160 --> 00:27:42,920
Speaker 1: have her Hill police officer arrives on the scene. No

470
00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:45,840
Speaker 1: one was inside or around the car. The car's windshield

471
00:27:45,880 --> 00:27:48,120
Speaker 1: had been cracked on the driver's side and both air

472
00:27:48,160 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 1: bags had deployed. The car was locked. That's in significant.

473
00:27:52,119 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: That's definitely significant to me. Definitely inside and outside the car.

474
00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,000
Speaker 1: He discovered red stains that looked like they were made

475
00:28:00,040 --> 00:28:03,120
Speaker 1: be red wine. Uh. And he did find the damaged

476
00:28:03,160 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: box of wine Franzia on the right on the rear seat.

477
00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:14,280
Speaker 1: In addition, he found a triple A card that was

478
00:28:14,280 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 1: issued to her blank crash report form. Oh, I'm sorry,

479
00:28:18,280 --> 00:28:20,560
Speaker 1: there were more than one. There were a few blank

480
00:28:20,760 --> 00:28:25,960
Speaker 1: crash rooms. She expected to have multiple um gloves. Compact

481
00:28:26,000 --> 00:28:30,560
Speaker 1: discs makeup just two sets of map Quest directions, one

482
00:28:30,600 --> 00:28:34,160
Speaker 1: to Burlington and the other to Stowe, both Vermont uh

483
00:28:34,280 --> 00:28:38,280
Speaker 1: Mara's favorite stuffed animal, and significantly not without Peril, a

484
00:28:38,280 --> 00:28:41,200
Speaker 1: book about mountain climbing in the White Mountains in New Hampshire,

485
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:45,120
Speaker 1: which were like twenty miles away from where she crashed. Yeah,

486
00:28:45,160 --> 00:28:47,040
Speaker 1: apparently she and her she and her dad likes to

487
00:28:47,240 --> 00:28:48,800
Speaker 1: like to hike in and they did a lot of

488
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:53,479
Speaker 1: that in her childhood teenage years. Yeah. So Maura's debit

489
00:28:53,560 --> 00:28:55,920
Speaker 1: and credit cards were missing along with her cell phone,

490
00:28:56,040 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 1: and nobody's ever seen or had use of them since

491
00:29:00,560 --> 00:29:05,440
Speaker 1: her disappearance. That's significant, I agree. Somewhere between eight and

492
00:29:05,480 --> 00:29:10,880
Speaker 1: eight thirty, it's unclear. A contractor who was returning home

493
00:29:10,960 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 1: from work in Franconia, Franconia, Franconia, fr Franconia, saw said

494
00:29:19,480 --> 00:29:23,040
Speaker 1: he saw a young person moving quickly on foot eastbound

495
00:29:23,120 --> 00:29:28,320
Speaker 1: on Route one, about four or five miles east of

496
00:29:28,360 --> 00:29:32,800
Speaker 1: where mars vehicle was discovered. He said that the young person,

497
00:29:32,960 --> 00:29:34,240
Speaker 1: and I don't know how he knew it was a

498
00:29:34,240 --> 00:29:37,280
Speaker 1: young person, but he did, was wearing jeans, a dark

499
00:29:37,280 --> 00:29:40,160
Speaker 1: coat and a light colored hood. He didn't report it

500
00:29:40,200 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: to the police because he was confused about the dates

501
00:29:43,680 --> 00:29:46,600
Speaker 1: and didn't think it was significant. So he reported about

502
00:29:46,600 --> 00:29:49,560
Speaker 1: three months later that he'd spotted the young person the

503
00:29:49,680 --> 00:29:51,880
Speaker 1: night that Mar disiparted. Yeah, so I don't think that

504
00:29:51,920 --> 00:29:56,600
Speaker 1: means okay, so I remember seeing that this guy. Everybody

505
00:29:56,600 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: says he was confused about the dates because he evidently

506
00:29:59,000 --> 00:30:01,360
Speaker 1: didn't know that the search for her was going on

507
00:30:01,520 --> 00:30:04,360
Speaker 1: right away, and he was thinking, oh, it was a

508
00:30:04,360 --> 00:30:08,400
Speaker 1: couple of days later. But I got on I got

509
00:30:08,480 --> 00:30:12,240
Speaker 1: on Google and started looking at this area and then

510
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:16,160
Speaker 1: looked at the roads and went, okay, well this is

511
00:30:16,200 --> 00:30:18,760
Speaker 1: about where she crashed. And then we track four or

512
00:30:18,760 --> 00:30:23,360
Speaker 1: five miles east on that road, which was the wrong

513
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: way to go if you're trying to get to any

514
00:30:25,960 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: major roads, because uh and I and for the life

515
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:32,760
Speaker 1: of me, now I can't remember which interstates it is

516
00:30:32,840 --> 00:30:36,440
Speaker 1: that kind of run in parallel north, But she was

517
00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:39,680
Speaker 1: taking the long way to get to one, when if

518
00:30:39,720 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: she had continued to travel west for or five miles,

519
00:30:44,840 --> 00:30:47,160
Speaker 1: it would have got her to the major interstates. So

520
00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,560
Speaker 1: it's really strange to me that she would have backtracked

521
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:52,800
Speaker 1: that direction, I guess. On the one hand, I do

522
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,000
Speaker 1: want to remind you about math quest in the early

523
00:30:57,000 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: two thousands and how really effective their their directions were

524
00:31:03,480 --> 00:31:06,000
Speaker 1: got some people killed. I mean, it was pretty awful.

525
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 1: But I think it's a valid point. Yes, I think

526
00:31:08,800 --> 00:31:10,920
Speaker 1: it's a valid point. I also do want to point

527
00:31:10,920 --> 00:31:15,400
Speaker 1: out that this is insignificant in my mind, because she

528
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:21,280
Speaker 1: interacted with somebody at like seven thirty, right, and then

529
00:31:21,320 --> 00:31:25,360
Speaker 1: at eight was sited four or five miles away, which

530
00:31:25,400 --> 00:31:29,760
Speaker 1: is a significant amount of Yeah, there's somebody to cover

531
00:31:29,880 --> 00:31:32,800
Speaker 1: in that amount of time. He had eight minute mile. Yeah,

532
00:31:32,800 --> 00:31:35,920
Speaker 1: she would have been hauling, but half an hour gotten

533
00:31:35,920 --> 00:31:37,440
Speaker 1: four or five miles. That's a good point. And the

534
00:31:37,480 --> 00:31:40,320
Speaker 1: fact of the matter is that there were probably plenty

535
00:31:40,320 --> 00:31:43,000
Speaker 1: of young people out on foot on that road that night.

536
00:31:43,200 --> 00:31:46,480
Speaker 1: I mean not lots, not, but I mean it's possible

537
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: that there was some kid from one house to the next.

538
00:31:50,600 --> 00:31:57,080
Speaker 1: So so I don't think we debunked that theory. Yeah,

539
00:31:57,600 --> 00:32:01,560
Speaker 1: just before eight pm of E M S and a

540
00:32:01,600 --> 00:32:05,480
Speaker 1: firetruck arrived to clear the scene, and by eight pm

541
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,640
Speaker 1: the car had been towed to a local garage and

542
00:32:08,680 --> 00:32:13,360
Speaker 1: at about nine pm the responding officer left the scene.

543
00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:18,880
Speaker 1: A rag that had been part of Mara's emergency roadside

544
00:32:18,920 --> 00:32:23,440
Speaker 1: kit was discovered stuffed in the Saturn's muffler pipe, which

545
00:32:23,520 --> 00:32:26,640
Speaker 1: is often a throwaway. But I stands that just stands

546
00:32:26,640 --> 00:32:30,280
Speaker 1: out to me so much, and I just don't know

547
00:32:30,400 --> 00:32:32,360
Speaker 1: the cause for something like that. I don't know why

548
00:32:32,440 --> 00:32:34,880
Speaker 1: somebody would do something like that. Well, yeah, her dad

549
00:32:34,880 --> 00:32:38,120
Speaker 1: actually sheds a little light on this. He's yeah, he does. Um.

550
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:41,800
Speaker 1: He said that I read on one side that there

551
00:32:41,840 --> 00:32:44,280
Speaker 1: was a blown cylinder in the car, which I don't

552
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,120
Speaker 1: think it possible because if you actually blast a whole

553
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:49,520
Speaker 1: cylinder out of your engineer engine. You've got a bad

554
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:54,280
Speaker 1: ring or blown head gass or something like that. But anyway,

555
00:32:54,320 --> 00:32:55,760
Speaker 1: so it could have been the ring, but it was

556
00:32:55,800 --> 00:32:59,880
Speaker 1: smoking apparently really badly, and her dad was like saying, well,

557
00:33:00,000 --> 00:33:00,960
Speaker 1: you know, it's going to make a kind of a

558
00:33:00,960 --> 00:33:03,480
Speaker 1: target for the for the pope. Pope. So he advised

559
00:33:03,480 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: her because she wasn't doing other things that we're making

560
00:33:06,800 --> 00:33:10,640
Speaker 1: exactly calling them, because she was crashing all over. So

561
00:33:10,680 --> 00:33:13,000
Speaker 1: he advised her to stuff a rag up the tailpipe

562
00:33:13,000 --> 00:33:15,040
Speaker 1: to conceal all the smoke. Which that seems to be

563
00:33:15,040 --> 00:33:16,520
Speaker 1: like kind of a bad idea. That sounds like the

564
00:33:16,560 --> 00:33:18,280
Speaker 1: worst idea I ever heard. Well, you know, I mean

565
00:33:18,280 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: the world is full of bad ideas. Come on, I mean, yeah,

566
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: this this reminds this makes me think of Beverly Hills

567
00:33:23,560 --> 00:33:27,040
Speaker 1: cop with the banana and the tailpipe. Yeah okay, well, yeah,

568
00:33:27,200 --> 00:33:29,320
Speaker 1: nobody's gonna see the smoke coming out of your tailpipe

569
00:33:29,320 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 1: because your car's not going to run, yeah, exactly, So

570
00:33:33,400 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: it's you know, I I don't know how good of

571
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,560
Speaker 1: advice that it is. Doesn't sound that great to me,

572
00:33:37,640 --> 00:33:40,520
Speaker 1: but anyway, that's why he said that he was insisting

573
00:33:40,560 --> 00:33:42,200
Speaker 1: on buy her a new car because he felt like

574
00:33:42,200 --> 00:33:44,320
Speaker 1: her existing car was not going to continue running a

575
00:33:44,360 --> 00:33:48,480
Speaker 1: whole lot longer. Yeah, I bet so. The following day, UM,

576
00:33:48,520 --> 00:33:51,400
Speaker 1: a bolo was issued for Mara in all of the

577
00:33:51,400 --> 00:33:54,320
Speaker 1: counties surrounding the crash site that she could have on

578
00:33:54,400 --> 00:34:01,280
Speaker 1: Lookout Beyond Lookout. Yeah. On February to days after her

579
00:34:01,360 --> 00:34:05,680
Speaker 1: father Fred found out about the search, he arrived to

580
00:34:05,960 --> 00:34:11,200
Speaker 1: help with the search. I guess or something. He came

581
00:34:11,360 --> 00:34:14,200
Speaker 1: to the area where the Sheriff's department was searching for Mara.

582
00:34:15,400 --> 00:34:18,520
Speaker 1: Search dogs were sent to the crash site and followed

583
00:34:18,560 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 1: her sense that they got off of a glove for

584
00:34:21,120 --> 00:34:24,000
Speaker 1: about a hundred feet but lost it. After that, police

585
00:34:24,040 --> 00:34:26,319
Speaker 1: stated that they believed that Mara had come to the

586
00:34:26,360 --> 00:34:29,960
Speaker 1: area to run away or commit suicide. UM and her

587
00:34:30,000 --> 00:34:32,799
Speaker 1: family and friends have of course denied this. From the

588
00:34:32,880 --> 00:34:36,480
Speaker 1: first suggestion. A lot of other people suggest that perhaps

589
00:34:36,480 --> 00:34:39,359
Speaker 1: her credit card fraud in conjunction with the two car

590
00:34:39,440 --> 00:34:43,319
Speaker 1: crashes in life less than a week UM and all

591
00:34:43,400 --> 00:34:46,080
Speaker 1: three being in less than three months, point to maybe

592
00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:49,319
Speaker 1: a serious problem with alcohol, and her family of course

593
00:34:49,360 --> 00:34:51,839
Speaker 1: denies that as well. Her family has been a very

594
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: admin about painting Mara as this perfect innocent angel figure,

595
00:34:57,160 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: which seems to have actually maybe been quite dead intrimental

596
00:35:00,600 --> 00:35:03,239
Speaker 1: to the actual search. Again, we'll get into that a

597
00:35:03,239 --> 00:35:06,200
Speaker 1: little bit later. Towards the end of two thousand four,

598
00:35:06,640 --> 00:35:11,480
Speaker 1: apparently a man gave Mara's father a rusty, stained knife

599
00:35:11,480 --> 00:35:14,879
Speaker 1: that had belonged to his brother. Uh the man's brother,

600
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:18,319
Speaker 1: not Fred's brother, who apparently was a criminal and had

601
00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:21,560
Speaker 1: lived less than a mile from where Mara's car was discovered.

602
00:35:22,760 --> 00:35:25,000
Speaker 1: His brother and his brother's girlfriend were said to have

603
00:35:25,080 --> 00:35:31,719
Speaker 1: acted strangely after mars disappearance. Creepy, creepy, but didn't did

604
00:35:31,760 --> 00:35:34,879
Speaker 1: Mara's father not follow up on this? I think that

605
00:35:34,960 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: he was My understanding that he handed the knife over

606
00:35:37,680 --> 00:35:40,680
Speaker 1: to authorities and they tested it and there was no

607
00:35:41,040 --> 00:35:45,040
Speaker 1: blood on there. Yeah. In late two thousand five, Mara's

608
00:35:45,120 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: father filed a lawsuit against many of the law enforcement

609
00:35:48,600 --> 00:35:51,160
Speaker 1: agencies that had been involved with the investigation, with the

610
00:35:51,200 --> 00:35:53,920
Speaker 1: aim to find find out what was going on in

611
00:35:53,920 --> 00:35:57,640
Speaker 1: the files with the case. Since it's an ongoing investigation,

612
00:35:57,920 --> 00:36:00,000
Speaker 1: many of them have not been made public. Of course,

613
00:36:00,000 --> 00:36:02,040
Speaker 1: you wanted to know what they knew, which is I

614
00:36:02,040 --> 00:36:05,600
Speaker 1: guess kind of fair yeah, I would. In also in

615
00:36:05,640 --> 00:36:09,440
Speaker 1: two thousand and six, the New Hampshire League of Investigators,

616
00:36:09,640 --> 00:36:12,440
Speaker 1: which is a thing, which is an awesome group, an

617
00:36:12,480 --> 00:36:15,360
Speaker 1: awesome group name. Yeah, I know, I would call myself

618
00:36:15,400 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: like the League of Justice. Yeah. I don't know why

619
00:36:17,239 --> 00:36:20,239
Speaker 1: we haven't called cops or something like that. That was

620
00:36:20,280 --> 00:36:22,160
Speaker 1: one of the names that we we threw, you know,

621
00:36:22,160 --> 00:36:23,680
Speaker 1: on the cutting room floor when we came with the

622
00:36:23,760 --> 00:36:26,359
Speaker 1: name of this show. Yeah. Yeah, Actually I was still

623
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:29,799
Speaker 1: voting for Danger Probe, I remember. Yeah, yeah, We're glad

624
00:36:29,800 --> 00:36:32,480
Speaker 1: we didn't go with anything. The New Hampshire League of

625
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,560
Speaker 1: Investigators is made up of ten retired police officers and detectives. They,

626
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:41,360
Speaker 1: in conjunction with the molly Bish Foundation, started working on

627
00:36:41,440 --> 00:36:47,080
Speaker 1: Mara's case in in two thousand and six. Tom Shamshack

628
00:36:47,880 --> 00:36:52,600
Speaker 1: Sam ham Shack, a former police chief and member of

629
00:36:52,719 --> 00:36:58,080
Speaker 1: the Licensed Private Detectives Association of Massachusetts, says, I quote,

630
00:36:58,440 --> 00:37:01,960
Speaker 1: it appears that this is something beyond a mere missing

631
00:37:02,000 --> 00:37:06,920
Speaker 1: person's case. Something ominous could have happened here. In October

632
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:09,960
Speaker 1: of two thousand and six, volunteers led two day search

633
00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,200
Speaker 1: within a few mile radius of where Mara's vehicle was found.

634
00:37:15,200 --> 00:37:19,320
Speaker 1: Creepy alert in a closet of an a frame house

635
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:24,600
Speaker 1: quite close to where the crash was. Cadaver dogs are

636
00:37:24,680 --> 00:37:28,840
Speaker 1: these dead dogs, the dogs that look for cadavers. You know,

637
00:37:28,880 --> 00:37:30,800
Speaker 1: there's a drug dog which is trained to catch the

638
00:37:30,840 --> 00:37:33,600
Speaker 1: smell of drugs. Yeah, there's a dog that is trained

639
00:37:33,680 --> 00:37:41,080
Speaker 1: to react to d comp human demo. So they had

640
00:37:41,080 --> 00:37:43,280
Speaker 1: a bunch of cadaver dogs with them on this search,

641
00:37:43,440 --> 00:37:46,840
Speaker 1: and in the closet of an a frame house, the

642
00:37:46,880 --> 00:37:52,680
Speaker 1: cadaver dogs allegedly went quote bonkers unquote identifying possible presence

643
00:37:52,680 --> 00:37:55,359
Speaker 1: of human remains. Did they bother opening because I read

644
00:37:55,360 --> 00:37:58,160
Speaker 1: this one too, Did they bother to open the closet door? Yeah,

645
00:37:58,680 --> 00:38:00,799
Speaker 1: it was in the closet and there was carpet there,

646
00:38:01,520 --> 00:38:03,960
Speaker 1: and they cut some of the carpet and sent it

647
00:38:04,000 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: off for analysis. But I never could find out if

648
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,600
Speaker 1: there were any results from that, which is creepy in

649
00:38:10,640 --> 00:38:14,120
Speaker 1: and of itself. You know what really actually, what really

650
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:17,560
Speaker 1: makes me angry is that every source that I found

651
00:38:17,600 --> 00:38:22,440
Speaker 1: that talked about that said and waiting for results in

652
00:38:22,480 --> 00:38:24,960
Speaker 1: two thousand six. You guys, it's been like more than

653
00:38:25,000 --> 00:38:29,839
Speaker 1: six years, and there's never any anything that says what

654
00:38:29,880 --> 00:38:32,279
Speaker 1: they found. I mean, I would like to Okay, you

655
00:38:32,320 --> 00:38:35,040
Speaker 1: know what, it turned out a raccoon got shut in

656
00:38:35,080 --> 00:38:38,320
Speaker 1: the closet and died, I would be so much happier.

657
00:38:39,120 --> 00:38:43,680
Speaker 1: That's totally in the well found. Yeah, because now I'm

658
00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:47,520
Speaker 1: just freaked out about mar Murray being in the carpeted

659
00:38:47,520 --> 00:38:55,200
Speaker 1: closet of an a frame that's terrifying. Every so significant

660
00:38:55,239 --> 00:38:58,960
Speaker 1: rewards somewhere to the tune of seventy five thousand dollars

661
00:38:59,120 --> 00:39:03,400
Speaker 1: have been offered really for just information on this case.

662
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:08,040
Speaker 1: So far, nothing but the only person that knows it's

663
00:39:08,040 --> 00:39:10,560
Speaker 1: a person that well anyway, and I'll get into that later.

664
00:39:11,320 --> 00:39:16,880
Speaker 1: You really are just railroading this whole thing. There. There

665
00:39:16,920 --> 00:39:21,320
Speaker 1: are some hinky things going on here though. Okay, here's

666
00:39:21,360 --> 00:39:26,560
Speaker 1: the cast list of this story. Character cast well, yeah,

667
00:39:26,640 --> 00:39:28,680
Speaker 1: I guess I hesitate to call it cast of characters

668
00:39:28,719 --> 00:39:31,280
Speaker 1: because they're not characters are more fun than these people.

669
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:33,799
Speaker 1: There is a big cast, you know, not to be

670
00:39:33,880 --> 00:39:37,040
Speaker 1: smirch or anything, but there's a cast of people. The

671
00:39:37,080 --> 00:39:42,200
Speaker 1: first of which is of course, of Fred Murray. Yeah.

672
00:39:42,440 --> 00:39:47,400
Speaker 1: The story that we just told um involves this character Fred,

673
00:39:48,000 --> 00:39:51,960
Speaker 1: who's the caring father who was involved in his daughter's

674
00:39:51,960 --> 00:39:56,480
Speaker 1: life at every turn, and it seems like it turns

675
00:39:56,480 --> 00:40:00,000
Speaker 1: out that may not actually be the case. And now, granted,

676
00:40:00,120 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: all of this is Internet information. I don't know the

677
00:40:02,640 --> 00:40:06,640
Speaker 1: guy personally, and I don't want to besmirch the name

678
00:40:06,680 --> 00:40:10,560
Speaker 1: of somebody. I generally feel that people are good. But

679
00:40:10,719 --> 00:40:13,080
Speaker 1: here's what the Internet has to say about it. Well,

680
00:40:13,120 --> 00:40:16,799
Speaker 1: and be careful about this, because the Internet is known

681
00:40:16,840 --> 00:40:21,279
Speaker 1: for circulating like live. Yeah. Absolutely, And that's what I

682
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:22,439
Speaker 1: want to do is I want to put a little

683
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:25,279
Speaker 1: disclaimer on this right that says, this is what the

684
00:40:25,280 --> 00:40:28,920
Speaker 1: Internet says, but you know, whether it's true or not.

685
00:40:29,120 --> 00:40:32,319
Speaker 1: I have I don't have a good idea aside from

686
00:40:32,320 --> 00:40:36,600
Speaker 1: my earlier mention of the high probability of him lying

687
00:40:36,719 --> 00:40:39,400
Speaker 1: about what he and Marrow were doing two days previous

688
00:40:39,440 --> 00:40:42,239
Speaker 1: to her disappearance, the car shopping. Why do you say

689
00:40:42,280 --> 00:40:45,080
Speaker 1: that's high probability. Oh, we talked about this a little

690
00:40:45,080 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: bit because nobody else could confirm that that's why he

691
00:40:48,760 --> 00:40:51,520
Speaker 1: was there. Well yeah, but still that that doesn't make

692
00:40:51,520 --> 00:40:55,120
Speaker 1: it a high probability is lying. It's just okay, Well,

693
00:40:55,160 --> 00:40:57,680
Speaker 1: it's it's odd. Let's let's call it that. It's actually

694
00:40:57,719 --> 00:40:59,640
Speaker 1: didn't mention it to anybody but but again, you know,

695
00:40:59,680 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: I mean I personally when I when I go get

696
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,439
Speaker 1: a new car, I don't usually tell people just show

697
00:41:04,520 --> 00:41:06,920
Speaker 1: up with a new car. Are also not a year

698
00:41:06,960 --> 00:41:13,120
Speaker 1: old girl. I mean, from my experience, my friends who

699
00:41:13,239 --> 00:41:16,560
Speaker 1: purchased cars recently, you're in college or whatever, that's all

700
00:41:16,560 --> 00:41:18,560
Speaker 1: they wanted to talk about was how they were so

701
00:41:18,600 --> 00:41:20,200
Speaker 1: excited that they were getting a new car, or how

702
00:41:20,200 --> 00:41:21,719
Speaker 1: they were so annoyed that they had to buy a

703
00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 1: new car. That's like a thing that people, young people

704
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 1: talk about often. That notwithstanding, uh, he apparently refused to

705
00:41:30,880 --> 00:41:34,279
Speaker 1: be interviewed by the police for nearly two years, and

706
00:41:34,360 --> 00:41:36,640
Speaker 1: when he finally did come in for questioning, he brought

707
00:41:36,680 --> 00:41:41,040
Speaker 1: two lawyers with him, which, you know, bringing two lawyers

708
00:41:41,120 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 1: with you to be interviewed in and of itself not

709
00:41:46,400 --> 00:41:48,880
Speaker 1: so that's fine, whatever, do what you feel like you

710
00:41:48,920 --> 00:41:51,840
Speaker 1: have to do to protect yourself. But waiting two years

711
00:41:51,920 --> 00:41:54,640
Speaker 1: to be interviewed about the disappearance of your daughter by

712
00:41:54,719 --> 00:41:59,719
Speaker 1: police during an investigation, and then bringing two lawyers, you know,

713
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:02,520
Speaker 1: it's all these like little tidbits of like if that

714
00:42:02,600 --> 00:42:05,359
Speaker 1: had been the only thing, then it would have been

715
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:08,880
Speaker 1: like a tiny little like drink red flag, right, you know,

716
00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:11,200
Speaker 1: the kind of flags you put in your drinks. Whereas

717
00:42:11,280 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 1: like added to some of the other stuff that may

718
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:16,920
Speaker 1: or may not be true about him, just kind of

719
00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:23,480
Speaker 1: paints this overall picture of questioning ability, questionability, questioning his character.

720
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,879
Speaker 1: So the Internet also tells me, and again please take

721
00:42:28,920 --> 00:42:30,960
Speaker 1: this with the disclaimer that I don't know if this

722
00:42:31,040 --> 00:42:34,879
Speaker 1: is true or not, but it tells me that he

723
00:42:35,320 --> 00:42:38,800
Speaker 1: may have lied about what else happened on that weekend,

724
00:42:38,880 --> 00:42:42,239
Speaker 1: and there's no details about what that means. But it

725
00:42:42,320 --> 00:42:45,760
Speaker 1: also tells me that upon a search of his things

726
00:42:45,840 --> 00:42:50,240
Speaker 1: by the police, photos of young women from his family

727
00:42:50,480 --> 00:42:57,480
Speaker 1: were found in porno magazines. What's what's all about that? Kidding? Now? Now,

728
00:42:58,040 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: when you say photos of young women in his family

729
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 1: were found in magazines, does that mean that they were

730
00:43:05,160 --> 00:43:10,160
Speaker 1: polaroids or snapshots that were stuck in magazines? Yeah? Okay,

731
00:43:10,200 --> 00:43:15,080
Speaker 1: not like he had made his own home gross magazine. Okay, No,

732
00:43:15,320 --> 00:43:18,880
Speaker 1: I just wanted to make sure that's creepy pressed neatly

733
00:43:19,120 --> 00:43:24,239
Speaker 1: in the folds of porno magazine was a snapshot of

734
00:43:24,280 --> 00:43:30,120
Speaker 1: a niece. Uh, you know, that's an odd bookmark. But

735
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:33,600
Speaker 1: this particular little factor it happen well, and that's exactly

736
00:43:33,680 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: it is that this guy, James Renner, who is kind

737
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,920
Speaker 1: of he's he's doing a blog. Many of you probably

738
00:43:41,920 --> 00:43:45,120
Speaker 1: know about him. He's a writing a blog and writing

739
00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:48,160
Speaker 1: a book about the mar Murray disappearance. He's an investigative

740
00:43:48,160 --> 00:43:51,600
Speaker 1: reporter who does a lot of this kind of investigation stuff.

741
00:43:51,640 --> 00:43:54,759
Speaker 1: And he and Fred apparently have a bit of a beef. Yeah,

742
00:43:54,800 --> 00:43:56,400
Speaker 1: it sounds like they don't get along. They don't get

743
00:43:56,440 --> 00:43:59,680
Speaker 1: along super well. And well, frankly, if if our Fred

744
00:43:59,719 --> 00:44:01,200
Speaker 1: and when we were putting this kind of stuff out

745
00:44:01,200 --> 00:44:03,040
Speaker 1: on the internet about me, I would be a little

746
00:44:03,200 --> 00:44:09,920
Speaker 1: pissy about the whole. Yeah. Rendered While he seems to

747
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:15,919
Speaker 1: have good intentions, some of his methods of going about things,

748
00:44:15,920 --> 00:44:17,840
Speaker 1: and this is my my attempt to say this the

749
00:44:17,840 --> 00:44:23,760
Speaker 1: best way possible are not necessarily the best He does

750
00:44:23,800 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: some things that and the way he writes, the tone,

751
00:44:27,880 --> 00:44:30,279
Speaker 1: that's the word I'm looking for. The tone and the

752
00:44:30,400 --> 00:44:35,040
Speaker 1: perspective that he takes on things are very accusatory. Well,

753
00:44:35,080 --> 00:44:38,880
Speaker 1: he's an author, that's you know. That's really the big

754
00:44:38,960 --> 00:44:40,880
Speaker 1: part of it, right, is that he's an author and

755
00:44:40,920 --> 00:44:44,319
Speaker 1: he's writing a book to sell. And that's fine. I

756
00:44:44,320 --> 00:44:48,319
Speaker 1: don't think there's anything reprehensible about that, Um, And I

757
00:44:48,360 --> 00:44:51,880
Speaker 1: think that he's kind of become this go to source

758
00:44:52,000 --> 00:44:55,840
Speaker 1: for the mar Murita's parents because he's actively investigating it

759
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:59,280
Speaker 1: and also putting out the information that he's finding versus

760
00:44:59,280 --> 00:45:02,040
Speaker 1: like the police. You are, it's a cold case, but

761
00:45:02,080 --> 00:45:06,600
Speaker 1: there it is an open investigation. It's hard to tell, Um. Well,

762
00:45:06,640 --> 00:45:09,520
Speaker 1: but what the thing is is that when I read

763
00:45:09,719 --> 00:45:14,120
Speaker 1: his stuff and I read the stance he takes out it.

764
00:45:14,200 --> 00:45:18,040
Speaker 1: Let's let's let's compare him to Ethan Brown, who we

765
00:45:18,080 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: talked about, talked to you for the Jefferson Date, David's

766
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:25,160
Speaker 1: eighth story. He was he was very removed. He was

767
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:29,200
Speaker 1: at intimate interactions with people, but he kept removed. He

768
00:45:29,280 --> 00:45:32,760
Speaker 1: kept his personal feelings out of it. He would say

769
00:45:32,920 --> 00:45:36,040
Speaker 1: this seemed weird to me, But he didn't seem to

770
00:45:36,120 --> 00:45:40,320
Speaker 1: get so involved and wrapped up and take a personal

771
00:45:40,480 --> 00:45:44,440
Speaker 1: stance on it. Yeah, whereas Renter kind of doesn't see

772
00:45:44,719 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: to be able to hold that that separation. It's kind

773
00:45:48,200 --> 00:45:51,040
Speaker 1: of like I remember when I was investigating the Door

774
00:45:51,080 --> 00:45:52,480
Speaker 1: of the Arnold story, and I go out on the

775
00:45:52,480 --> 00:45:54,279
Speaker 1: internet and I'd go to some of these boards where

776
00:45:54,280 --> 00:45:56,760
Speaker 1: people were talking about it, you know, and I'd watched

777
00:45:57,080 --> 00:46:01,359
Speaker 1: these posts go by, you know, and and and watch

778
00:46:01,400 --> 00:46:04,120
Speaker 1: these people convince themselves. For example, the Dorothy's cases, she

779
00:46:04,200 --> 00:46:06,640
Speaker 1: was being horribly abused by her family. There's never been

780
00:46:06,680 --> 00:46:09,560
Speaker 1: a shred of evidence of support that, but I watched

781
00:46:09,560 --> 00:46:12,319
Speaker 1: these these people's comments get more and more intense about

782
00:46:12,320 --> 00:46:14,600
Speaker 1: poor Dorothy and the horror, the horror that her family

783
00:46:14,640 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 1: was inflicting at her. It starts out as the family

784
00:46:16,680 --> 00:46:18,319
Speaker 1: is kind of poking a little fun at her, and

785
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:21,959
Speaker 1: pretty soon they're just totally treating her like dirt. It's like, dude,

786
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: there's not a shred of evidence ready this, yeah, and

787
00:46:24,440 --> 00:46:26,000
Speaker 1: this is what kind of what this reminds me. So

788
00:46:26,040 --> 00:46:28,279
Speaker 1: when I just so that's you know, that's one of

789
00:46:28,320 --> 00:46:30,239
Speaker 1: the good points to make is that it is the

790
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:34,040
Speaker 1: internet and it's hard to tell. And another another point

791
00:46:34,080 --> 00:46:37,920
Speaker 1: to they searched his things and found photos of family

792
00:46:37,920 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: women in Porto max. To the best of my knowledge,

793
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:43,320
Speaker 1: there's no there was never any reason for the police

794
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:45,719
Speaker 1: to search the father's stuff. They went out and he

795
00:46:45,760 --> 00:46:48,720
Speaker 1: didn't even live in town. He lived a distance away,

796
00:46:49,120 --> 00:46:51,160
Speaker 1: and he was never a person of interests as far

797
00:46:51,200 --> 00:46:53,239
Speaker 1: as I know, in this whole story. Yeah, it's hard

798
00:46:53,280 --> 00:46:55,600
Speaker 1: to tell. Again, you know, it's hard to tell because

799
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:58,760
Speaker 1: since none of the police reports have really been released,

800
00:46:58,760 --> 00:47:00,640
Speaker 1: it's hard to tell what they have and have not

801
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:04,359
Speaker 1: done all of that sort of stuff. Apparently, Also, there's

802
00:47:04,400 --> 00:47:07,839
Speaker 1: a rumor floating around that Fred told his friends and

803
00:47:07,920 --> 00:47:11,000
Speaker 1: Mara's friends not to talk to people who are writing

804
00:47:11,000 --> 00:47:15,760
Speaker 1: a book about the disappearance, Jeremy Renner, James mr. Runner.

805
00:47:18,840 --> 00:47:23,000
Speaker 1: But also they he apparently told Mar's friends what to

806
00:47:23,080 --> 00:47:26,279
Speaker 1: say to the police as well. Now, the one thing

807
00:47:26,360 --> 00:47:29,080
Speaker 1: that I do want to say, and this is kind

808
00:47:29,120 --> 00:47:35,480
Speaker 1: of in defensive Fred, is I've read accounts from families

809
00:47:35,520 --> 00:47:40,040
Speaker 1: that have had children disappear, uh and and there are

810
00:47:40,120 --> 00:47:44,200
Speaker 1: cases where people have realized what a political game they

811
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:48,640
Speaker 1: have to play with the news media and with people

812
00:47:48,760 --> 00:47:54,239
Speaker 1: in general. And so they very methodically stage things and

813
00:47:54,400 --> 00:47:58,000
Speaker 1: present things and say, we need to put this out here,

814
00:47:58,320 --> 00:48:00,560
Speaker 1: and we need to hold this back, we need to

815
00:48:00,600 --> 00:48:05,400
Speaker 1: work through this process. And it's very calculated. And the

816
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:09,120
Speaker 1: problem is is while that works in the beginning, this

817
00:48:09,360 --> 00:48:13,520
Speaker 1: very calculated approach to keep the story alive, to keep

818
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: it in people's minds, and to help spur the investigation,

819
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:22,280
Speaker 1: it also in hindsight, after it all kind of washes

820
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:26,360
Speaker 1: out and people take another look at it, that behavior

821
00:48:26,480 --> 00:48:31,560
Speaker 1: then really reflects poorly on you, because it there's a

822
00:48:31,600 --> 00:48:35,840
Speaker 1: lot of inconsistencies between what you would expect a father's

823
00:48:35,880 --> 00:48:40,480
Speaker 1: behavior of his daughter who has disappeared, conflicting with the

824
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:45,360
Speaker 1: behavior of somebody who is taking it and just segmenting

825
00:48:45,520 --> 00:48:51,920
Speaker 1: and compartmentalizing and putting it all in order for presentations.

826
00:48:52,640 --> 00:48:55,240
Speaker 1: And so I can see both sides of the coin

827
00:48:55,880 --> 00:48:58,920
Speaker 1: where he's trying to keep things going, but at the

828
00:48:58,960 --> 00:49:02,319
Speaker 1: same time, he's knowing that if I just put it

829
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,640
Speaker 1: all out there, then the whole thing is done and

830
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,480
Speaker 1: there's nothing to keep people looking into this story and

831
00:49:08,560 --> 00:49:12,040
Speaker 1: keep public awareness of it. Sure. Yeah, I think that's

832
00:49:12,080 --> 00:49:16,320
Speaker 1: a fair point. Um. Let's move on to Billy Rush,

833
00:49:16,840 --> 00:49:21,399
Speaker 1: the next cast member. Yeah, he was Mara's boyfriend. Many

834
00:49:21,400 --> 00:49:24,400
Speaker 1: accounts say that they were engaged, they were not. Apparently,

835
00:49:24,600 --> 00:49:27,560
Speaker 1: in fact, the relationship was on the rocks and Billy

836
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,840
Speaker 1: was cheating on Mara, and in fact she was cheating

837
00:49:30,880 --> 00:49:35,080
Speaker 1: on him with the assistant track coach of hers and

838
00:49:35,440 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: at least and apparently maybe even taking part in quote

839
00:49:39,920 --> 00:49:43,280
Speaker 1: track Team Orgies unquote, which I think is just dumb.

840
00:49:43,520 --> 00:49:46,680
Speaker 1: So what's the source of all this stuff anyway, Well,

841
00:49:46,840 --> 00:49:50,239
Speaker 1: there's actually a couple of sources of this. Yeah, it's

842
00:49:50,280 --> 00:49:53,880
Speaker 1: it's kind of substantiated around and in fact, the assistant

843
00:49:53,920 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: track coach thing is in fact true, but it's not

844
00:49:59,040 --> 00:50:03,120
Speaker 1: clear that it was actually her cheating on Billy. Well. Well,

845
00:50:03,160 --> 00:50:04,840
Speaker 1: and this is actually the next person I'm going to

846
00:50:04,920 --> 00:50:11,160
Speaker 1: talk about. Yeah, but according to apparently they broke up

847
00:50:11,200 --> 00:50:14,799
Speaker 1: over a summer and had recently gotten back together, and

848
00:50:15,080 --> 00:50:19,640
Speaker 1: also apparently Billy was maybe not such a nice guy. Again,

849
00:50:19,880 --> 00:50:22,239
Speaker 1: these are you know, it's just like, so it's such

850
00:50:22,280 --> 00:50:25,960
Speaker 1: a mishmash of like he said, she said, and these

851
00:50:26,000 --> 00:50:31,320
Speaker 1: are these these this this so sounds like college girl

852
00:50:31,719 --> 00:50:36,040
Speaker 1: caddie rumors. Oh my god, you will believe that slot

853
00:50:36,480 --> 00:50:38,759
Speaker 1: she was sleeping with the track coach and then she

854
00:50:38,880 --> 00:50:41,000
Speaker 1: was passed around with all the guys on the team.

855
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:46,480
Speaker 1: That is just so weird. And I've read that in accounts.

856
00:50:46,560 --> 00:50:50,360
Speaker 1: It's really come on. So the interesting thing is actually

857
00:50:50,400 --> 00:50:53,800
Speaker 1: all of that information comes from her ex boyfriend slash

858
00:50:53,920 --> 00:50:59,960
Speaker 1: assistant track coach. Really yeah, okay, he's actually the one. Yeah, okay,

859
00:51:00,040 --> 00:51:03,440
Speaker 1: So well, let's just like let's let's let's have it.

860
00:51:03,520 --> 00:51:06,560
Speaker 1: Let's let's jump right in. His name is hoss Bag Daddy,

861
00:51:08,320 --> 00:51:10,600
Speaker 1: and he was the he was the assistant track coach

862
00:51:10,920 --> 00:51:13,960
Speaker 1: at U Mass apparently, and apparently they were seeing each

863
00:51:14,000 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: other while she and Billy were broken up. Uh. He

864
00:51:17,239 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: says that she was fairly promiscuous, that she was sleeping

865
00:51:20,000 --> 00:51:23,440
Speaker 1: with him, but also many other members of the track team,

866
00:51:23,480 --> 00:51:26,560
Speaker 1: but that didn't keep him from liking her, liking her,

867
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:30,919
Speaker 1: loving her, he says, loving her, I think, he says,

868
00:51:31,360 --> 00:51:33,520
Speaker 1: I mean, that's like at the very end, it's almost

869
00:51:33,560 --> 00:51:35,680
Speaker 1: an afterthought, you know, he talks about how much he

870
00:51:35,719 --> 00:51:38,479
Speaker 1: loves her, and you know, how great they were together

871
00:51:38,520 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 1: and how happy and strong she was, and then also like, yeah,

872
00:51:41,480 --> 00:51:43,480
Speaker 1: it's true that she was sleeping with other people, but

873
00:51:43,600 --> 00:51:45,640
Speaker 1: like that's fine, which you know, I think is a

874
00:51:45,719 --> 00:51:48,600
Speaker 1: fair thing to say. In college, it's it's okay to say.

875
00:51:49,360 --> 00:51:52,640
Speaker 1: How old was he? Do? You know? Is early twenties

876
00:51:52,800 --> 00:51:57,200
Speaker 1: early so he's kind of in the same democratic Yeah, obviously,

877
00:51:57,239 --> 00:51:59,319
Speaker 1: he you know, I mean, it just it depends on

878
00:51:59,320 --> 00:52:02,200
Speaker 1: the relationship up if you're really serious about somebody, and

879
00:52:02,239 --> 00:52:05,040
Speaker 1: obviously that's not going to play. Perhaps they weren't. I don't.

880
00:52:05,040 --> 00:52:06,839
Speaker 1: I don't think he was serious about her. So, you know,

881
00:52:07,640 --> 00:52:12,040
Speaker 1: So Hoss was interviewed by a few different people and

882
00:52:12,120 --> 00:52:15,560
Speaker 1: claimed that he didn't actually even know that Mara had

883
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,680
Speaker 1: a father. Her father and mother were divorced, so I'll

884
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,120
Speaker 1: throw that out there. He he actually thought that perhaps

885
00:52:22,239 --> 00:52:24,520
Speaker 1: the father was dead, that he had never heard Mara

886
00:52:24,640 --> 00:52:27,920
Speaker 1: talk about her father before, which is again another little

887
00:52:28,000 --> 00:52:31,640
Speaker 1: like earworm. There's so many tiny little earworms. Well, you know.

888
00:52:31,760 --> 00:52:33,279
Speaker 1: But the thing about it is, it sounds to me

889
00:52:33,440 --> 00:52:36,520
Speaker 1: like he and he and Mara got together for one

890
00:52:36,560 --> 00:52:38,239
Speaker 1: thing and one thing only. I doubt that they spent

891
00:52:38,280 --> 00:52:40,200
Speaker 1: a lot of time. I actually it sounds like some

892
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:43,759
Speaker 1: reports that they actually did spend some time together. There

893
00:52:43,760 --> 00:52:46,040
Speaker 1: were many moments where they were just kind of hanging out,

894
00:52:46,040 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: and she in fact confessed a couple of things to him.

895
00:52:49,120 --> 00:52:51,920
Speaker 1: She they had been spending the summer together, and she

896
00:52:51,960 --> 00:52:53,799
Speaker 1: went to visit him over the summer, and then once

897
00:52:53,840 --> 00:52:57,520
Speaker 1: school started again, she became kind of distant, you know,

898
00:52:57,560 --> 00:52:59,680
Speaker 1: of course, as all his account, but she became kind

899
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:02,359
Speaker 1: of stint and finally said, oh, actually Billy and I

900
00:53:02,400 --> 00:53:05,279
Speaker 1: got back together. It sounded like Billy was perhaps being

901
00:53:05,280 --> 00:53:07,839
Speaker 1: a little demanding the whole, like I need you here

902
00:53:08,239 --> 00:53:11,000
Speaker 1: at this time, and you need to be only doing

903
00:53:11,000 --> 00:53:13,359
Speaker 1: the things but I want you to do. And at

904
00:53:13,400 --> 00:53:18,520
Speaker 1: one moment, she confessed to Hoss that, um, she hated

905
00:53:18,560 --> 00:53:20,759
Speaker 1: her life at U Mass and wished that she could

906
00:53:20,880 --> 00:53:26,879
Speaker 1: quote just disappear, and Hoss recalls reacting to finding out

907
00:53:26,920 --> 00:53:32,439
Speaker 1: about her disappearance with a holy crap, maybe she did it. Okay, Well,

908
00:53:32,840 --> 00:53:36,440
Speaker 1: I immediately and I had I had only seen some

909
00:53:36,520 --> 00:53:40,640
Speaker 1: of the kind of overview accounts of him. But I

910
00:53:40,719 --> 00:53:47,319
Speaker 1: can't help but immediately get that Bra sent feel from this.

911
00:53:47,400 --> 00:53:50,520
Speaker 1: And and by Bra, I mean, hey, Bra, what's going

912
00:53:50,600 --> 00:53:54,759
Speaker 1: on the bro? Yeah? That bro, That that college bro

913
00:53:55,040 --> 00:53:58,200
Speaker 1: who couldn't leave after he got out. You know, he

914
00:53:58,239 --> 00:54:00,759
Speaker 1: didn't want to lead the fraternity line if it Hey bro,

915
00:54:01,360 --> 00:54:04,279
Speaker 1: let's like go do this and it's totally awesome. We're

916
00:54:04,320 --> 00:54:06,880
Speaker 1: gonna hang out with these chicks. Like there's that weird

917
00:54:07,200 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: college guy mentality that there are men that are in

918
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:13,200
Speaker 1: their thirties that still can't get over there. Yeah I

919
00:54:13,520 --> 00:54:18,480
Speaker 1: can just I really just from the way this is

920
00:54:18,520 --> 00:54:22,719
Speaker 1: put together and the things that he says, I get that, well,

921
00:54:22,760 --> 00:54:24,959
Speaker 1: I was a good dude. And we had a thing

922
00:54:25,320 --> 00:54:27,560
Speaker 1: and so we just like hung out and you can

923
00:54:27,600 --> 00:54:29,839
Speaker 1: fight it in me And I don't know why I'm

924
00:54:29,840 --> 00:54:32,439
Speaker 1: getting a surfer dude, the lilt in my voice, but

925
00:54:32,800 --> 00:54:36,799
Speaker 1: it just I really get a just I don't buy it.

926
00:54:37,080 --> 00:54:39,080
Speaker 1: Yeah really, I mean that's that's just all the pois

927
00:54:39,080 --> 00:54:41,800
Speaker 1: down to. I don't really buy this guy's stuff. It's interesting.

928
00:54:41,960 --> 00:54:46,880
Speaker 1: I kind of had that same like, um fame crashing vibe.

929
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,600
Speaker 1: So he like knew somebody who was famous for a

930
00:54:50,840 --> 00:54:53,480
Speaker 1: kind of tragic reason, and he was just like, you know,

931
00:54:53,480 --> 00:54:56,279
Speaker 1: it's the same girls who like, you know, some girl

932
00:54:56,400 --> 00:54:58,719
Speaker 1: dies horribly in a car crash and then like all

933
00:54:58,760 --> 00:55:02,760
Speaker 1: of the girls at her school, like we were best friends,

934
00:55:01,840 --> 00:55:06,239
Speaker 1: are so much. We hug out in home room twice

935
00:55:06,520 --> 00:55:08,520
Speaker 1: and then you find out on Facebook they ripped on

936
00:55:08,560 --> 00:55:12,239
Speaker 1: her constantly. Her. Yeah, so you're taking old hoss here.

937
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:14,040
Speaker 1: It is just basically full of it, and he's lying

938
00:55:14,040 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: about their their passion sexual relationship. I believe that they

939
00:55:17,600 --> 00:55:20,160
Speaker 1: there was probably something there, yeah, but I don't know

940
00:55:20,239 --> 00:55:22,400
Speaker 1: if it was as much. And you know, I also

941
00:55:22,680 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 1: don't know if he if she ever really said I

942
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,879
Speaker 1: just wish I could disappear. She um she really should

943
00:55:28,920 --> 00:55:30,239
Speaker 1: have kept a diary and left it in the car.

944
00:55:30,400 --> 00:55:35,920
Speaker 1: So much easier next time, keep a diary. The next

945
00:55:36,560 --> 00:55:41,839
Speaker 1: character is Kate Marcos Mark Hoppolis. Thank you. That's how

946
00:55:41,880 --> 00:55:43,600
Speaker 1: I would have said it. That was a good way

947
00:55:43,640 --> 00:55:46,959
Speaker 1: to say it. Yeah, So Kate was apparently friends with Mara.

948
00:55:47,760 --> 00:55:51,160
Speaker 1: She and Fred and Mara had dinner a few days.

949
00:55:51,160 --> 00:55:54,040
Speaker 1: She was at the dinner that they had on the seventh.

950
00:55:54,040 --> 00:55:56,600
Speaker 1: It must have they had a group and which after

951
00:55:56,640 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: what she took forr dad's car and then crashed it.

952
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: And Kate was actually really also at the party that

953
00:56:02,320 --> 00:56:04,600
Speaker 1: Marrow was at right before she crashed her dad's car.

954
00:56:05,000 --> 00:56:09,080
Speaker 1: Kate said that she had no knowledge about Mars plans,

955
00:56:09,120 --> 00:56:14,040
Speaker 1: which I think is fair. Apparently of note, however, and

956
00:56:14,120 --> 00:56:16,239
Speaker 1: I say apparently because I just think this is so

957
00:56:16,280 --> 00:56:19,560
Speaker 1: sad that this keeps getting brought up. But Kate's father

958
00:56:19,719 --> 00:56:22,600
Speaker 1: spent five years in jail for attempting to blow up

959
00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,959
Speaker 1: his neighbor with a homemade bomb. Stable behavior, five years

960
00:56:26,960 --> 00:56:30,960
Speaker 1: in jail. Yeah, he admitted to the crime and served

961
00:56:30,960 --> 00:56:37,160
Speaker 1: five years. She claims that he was wrongfully imprisoned, and

962
00:56:37,239 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 1: did she he was innocent and didn't do it. I

963
00:56:39,320 --> 00:56:42,520
Speaker 1: think I think Daddy took the rap, So I mean

964
00:56:42,600 --> 00:56:48,440
Speaker 1: and I think that I think it's fair to say that, like,

965
00:56:48,480 --> 00:56:52,680
Speaker 1: those are two pretty extreme things for one person to have,

966
00:56:52,800 --> 00:56:54,800
Speaker 1: and for one person to have both of those things

967
00:56:54,960 --> 00:56:57,280
Speaker 1: is like, you know, the odds of that are so

968
00:56:57,440 --> 00:56:59,959
Speaker 1: million to one. Right to like have a close friend

969
00:57:00,040 --> 00:57:04,160
Speaker 1: who disappears under highly mysterious circumstances. Oh and also to

970
00:57:04,200 --> 00:57:07,000
Speaker 1: have a father who tried to blow up his neighbor

971
00:57:07,040 --> 00:57:10,560
Speaker 1: with a homemade bomb, you know, I think, but I don't.

972
00:57:10,680 --> 00:57:13,640
Speaker 1: I just can't see a connection. You know, I just

973
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:16,760
Speaker 1: don't see a connection there. But with everything else with

974
00:57:16,800 --> 00:57:22,560
Speaker 1: this story, it's something to grab onto and try and

975
00:57:22,600 --> 00:57:26,920
Speaker 1: flesh it out and try and draw some Freudian conclusion

976
00:57:27,040 --> 00:57:31,240
Speaker 1: to the whole thing. Exactly. Yeah, So did Ma ever

977
00:57:31,320 --> 00:57:33,280
Speaker 1: like asked to meet the daddy and so she could

978
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,840
Speaker 1: quiz him about bomb making techniques as far as I know.

979
00:57:37,240 --> 00:57:40,880
Speaker 1: Next is Jeff Williams, a k a. Police Chief Williams

980
00:57:41,040 --> 00:57:44,600
Speaker 1: or former police chief Williams. This was actually the guy

981
00:57:44,600 --> 00:57:47,920
Speaker 1: who responded to that first crash where Mara ran into

982
00:57:47,960 --> 00:57:52,120
Speaker 1: the guide rail with Daddy's I don't know if it

983
00:57:52,200 --> 00:57:55,240
Speaker 1: was new, but with and he apparently has a bit

984
00:57:55,280 --> 00:57:58,960
Speaker 1: of a record of messing up. According to the Internet,

985
00:57:59,040 --> 00:58:01,600
Speaker 1: again because that's the only place you can get information

986
00:58:01,640 --> 00:58:07,200
Speaker 1: these days, he crashed his motorcycle into a truck. Then later,

987
00:58:07,800 --> 00:58:10,760
Speaker 1: after a bit of a high speed chase, he was

988
00:58:10,800 --> 00:58:15,680
Speaker 1: pulled over and charged with a driving while intoxicated and

989
00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:18,640
Speaker 1: was of course released from his duty as police chief.

990
00:58:19,160 --> 00:58:22,480
Speaker 1: Also apparently, of note, the car he was driving belongs

991
00:58:22,560 --> 00:58:26,680
Speaker 1: to a woman who is not his wife. And Fred

992
00:58:26,720 --> 00:58:30,240
Speaker 1: was actually the first person to call Mr Williams's character

993
00:58:30,320 --> 00:58:34,120
Speaker 1: into question, and he he said that he wondered aloud

994
00:58:34,160 --> 00:58:38,240
Speaker 1: to the media if perhaps Mr Williams had not been

995
00:58:38,440 --> 00:58:41,280
Speaker 1: lying about how intoxicated Marrow was on the night of

996
00:58:41,280 --> 00:58:46,240
Speaker 1: that initial crash. So r is Fred saying that Mr

997
00:58:46,280 --> 00:58:51,960
Speaker 1: Williams this whole thing. Mr Williams, well he's he's the

998
00:58:51,960 --> 00:58:55,360
Speaker 1: guy that responded after the guardrail crash. So so did

999
00:58:55,520 --> 00:58:58,040
Speaker 1: Williams say, Oh, she was smashed, but I just let

1000
00:58:58,040 --> 00:59:02,360
Speaker 1: her go. I know he Williams didn't remember if you

1001
00:59:03,480 --> 00:59:07,000
Speaker 1: he actually drove her to her father's hotel room. And

1002
00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:09,240
Speaker 1: you know, in my mind I see a like kind

1003
00:59:09,240 --> 00:59:11,640
Speaker 1: of like a good guy cops situation here where I

1004
00:59:11,800 --> 00:59:15,280
Speaker 1: like if she was drunk. He was like, listen, like,

1005
00:59:15,400 --> 00:59:17,760
Speaker 1: you're dumb, but I'm not going to charge you here.

1006
00:59:17,800 --> 00:59:21,600
Speaker 1: Let's get you to your father, you know, Like he's trying. Yeah,

1007
00:59:21,640 --> 00:59:23,880
Speaker 1: he was trying to be helpful. So I think it's

1008
00:59:23,920 --> 00:59:27,600
Speaker 1: silly that Fred was that. Fred Murray is like, yeah,

1009
00:59:27,680 --> 00:59:30,120
Speaker 1: calling his character in a question. I don't get that. Yeah,

1010
00:59:30,160 --> 00:59:34,640
Speaker 1: I agree with that. The next cast or the next

1011
00:59:34,720 --> 00:59:39,960
Speaker 1: character cast member is the mysterious caller, which I've actually

1012
00:59:40,040 --> 00:59:42,400
Speaker 1: named the Mysterious Caller, and there's no actual name attached

1013
00:59:42,400 --> 00:59:45,520
Speaker 1: to this person. Apparently, during the course of the investigation,

1014
00:59:45,760 --> 00:59:50,040
Speaker 1: a police officer discovered that somebody had called Mara's phone

1015
00:59:50,800 --> 00:59:53,120
Speaker 1: in the late afternoon of the ninth, which is the

1016
00:59:53,200 --> 00:59:57,240
Speaker 1: day that Mara disappeared, and the call came from within

1017
00:59:57,280 --> 01:00:01,959
Speaker 1: a twenty two mile radius of the London Dairy, New

1018
01:00:01,960 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: Hampshire cell phone tower. There's apparently only one there. How

1019
01:00:05,520 --> 01:00:09,800
Speaker 1: big is London's quite small, and this has caused a

1020
01:00:09,800 --> 01:00:12,240
Speaker 1: lot of people to speculate that she was planning to

1021
01:00:12,280 --> 01:00:15,320
Speaker 1: meet somebody in New Hampshire. Do you know how far

1022
01:00:15,360 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 1: away that is from where her accident was. It's like

1023
01:00:19,600 --> 01:00:24,160
Speaker 1: a hundred miles, a hundred and sixteen miles south and

1024
01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:31,280
Speaker 1: that's that's south. Yeah, okay, that's right on the border

1025
01:00:31,600 --> 01:00:36,560
Speaker 1: with New Hampshire and not Massachusetts but Vermont. And she

1026
01:00:36,600 --> 01:00:41,080
Speaker 1: went to school in Amherst, right Massachusetts, which is it's

1027
01:00:41,120 --> 01:00:46,280
Speaker 1: almost west where London west of London area southwest. Yeah,

1028
01:00:46,320 --> 01:00:53,400
Speaker 1: so from Amherst to Woodsville is like like pretty north.

1029
01:00:53,560 --> 01:00:55,960
Speaker 1: It's just like a solid north path with a slight.

1030
01:00:56,360 --> 01:01:02,840
Speaker 1: It's no. But yeah, Also, I guess I've note um

1031
01:01:03,080 --> 01:01:07,080
Speaker 1: the Google Maps, if you're going to drive from Woodsville

1032
01:01:07,120 --> 01:01:12,360
Speaker 1: to London Dairy, you have to take one twelve east,

1033
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:15,480
Speaker 1: except she was going the opposite direction. She was driving

1034
01:01:15,520 --> 01:01:18,240
Speaker 1: away from it. Okay, well this is just where she

1035
01:01:18,360 --> 01:01:22,760
Speaker 1: was going west right one twelve, that's the assumption. But yeah,

1036
01:01:23,400 --> 01:01:27,280
Speaker 1: car was her car was faced east on the west

1037
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:37,280
Speaker 1: right yet, but that's a giant detour Londonderry. That almost

1038
01:01:37,280 --> 01:01:40,040
Speaker 1: sounds like I got a new cell phone and I

1039
01:01:40,120 --> 01:01:43,160
Speaker 1: called my friend and they didn't answer, and that's why

1040
01:01:43,200 --> 01:01:46,000
Speaker 1: nobody knows what this phone number is. Yeah, I think,

1041
01:01:46,000 --> 01:01:50,480
Speaker 1: okay that I just counted that right off. Okay, never mind. Yeah,

1042
01:01:50,520 --> 01:01:52,560
Speaker 1: I don't even worry about it because Londonderry is not

1043
01:01:52,640 --> 01:01:56,000
Speaker 1: that far from Amherst or where she where her parents lived.

1044
01:01:56,120 --> 01:01:58,720
Speaker 1: And it's quite conceivable she knew somebody who lived in

1045
01:01:58,720 --> 01:02:05,040
Speaker 1: Londonderry who randomly called. So the next character is Um

1046
01:02:05,040 --> 01:02:09,800
Speaker 1: maybe one of the creepiest. Yeah, this guy. I gotta

1047
01:02:09,800 --> 01:02:12,600
Speaker 1: be honest with you. I couldn't watch the YouTube videos.

1048
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:16,800
Speaker 1: I did not watch. I knew that it was going

1049
01:02:16,880 --> 01:02:19,040
Speaker 1: to be a bad idea. So in two thousand and twelve,

1050
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:25,840
Speaker 1: the eight year anniversary of Mara's disappearance, a what I

1051
01:02:25,880 --> 01:02:30,440
Speaker 1: can only describe as mentally unstabled man Um posted some

1052
01:02:30,560 --> 01:02:35,320
Speaker 1: videos to YouTube taunting the family of the Murray family

1053
01:02:35,360 --> 01:02:37,680
Speaker 1: and also claiming to have information related to the case.

1054
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:42,920
Speaker 1: In one of the videos, he's just laughing, which is terrifying. Uh.

1055
01:02:42,960 --> 01:02:45,160
Speaker 1: And one of the other videos he shows a ski

1056
01:02:45,240 --> 01:02:48,600
Speaker 1: lift pass um that was dated two days prior to

1057
01:02:48,720 --> 01:02:51,640
Speaker 1: Marrow's disappearance from a ski resort that was very close

1058
01:02:51,640 --> 01:02:54,200
Speaker 1: to where her car was found. And that is I

1059
01:02:54,200 --> 01:02:58,960
Speaker 1: guess of note, because who keeps he passes for eight years? Well?

1060
01:02:59,000 --> 01:03:02,520
Speaker 1: And and is the thing is I watched them and

1061
01:03:02,680 --> 01:03:06,320
Speaker 1: I I it's a The laughing video is just over

1062
01:03:06,400 --> 01:03:10,120
Speaker 1: a minute long, and I I skimmed the thing like

1063
01:03:10,200 --> 01:03:13,360
Speaker 1: you know, I paused, he started giggling or whatever it

1064
01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,360
Speaker 1: is he's laughing, and I skimmed across it and it

1065
01:03:16,520 --> 01:03:19,360
Speaker 1: is just him in a darkened room and you can

1066
01:03:19,360 --> 01:03:21,760
Speaker 1: barely make out his features and there's, you know, the

1067
01:03:21,760 --> 01:03:24,440
Speaker 1: computer monitor reflection his glasses. You can't tell who this

1068
01:03:24,520 --> 01:03:27,920
Speaker 1: dude is. And that's the one that's just titled Happy Anniversary. Yeah.

1069
01:03:28,000 --> 01:03:31,919
Speaker 1: At the very ends is Happy Anniversary fighting. The one

1070
01:03:31,960 --> 01:03:35,320
Speaker 1: that's the ski passes like fifteen seconds long. And then

1071
01:03:35,320 --> 01:03:39,480
Speaker 1: he also posted another weird one, which I swear is

1072
01:03:39,560 --> 01:03:42,240
Speaker 1: taken out of a movie, and all it is is

1073
01:03:42,800 --> 01:03:45,880
Speaker 1: rain coming down on a windshield with the wind shear

1074
01:03:45,960 --> 01:03:50,000
Speaker 1: wipers with orchestral music in the background. And at first

1075
01:03:50,520 --> 01:03:53,600
Speaker 1: it's actually kind of beautiful because you're listening to it,

1076
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:57,320
Speaker 1: you're seeing the whippers. This is really well made. And

1077
01:03:57,360 --> 01:04:00,680
Speaker 1: then I'm realizing it's for an actual movie, and it

1078
01:04:00,760 --> 01:04:03,440
Speaker 1: seems because it's pretty well put together, somebody knew what

1079
01:04:03,480 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 1: they were doing. Wasn't obviously this dude did it. Because

1080
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,920
Speaker 1: what I laugh at is everything that this guy puts

1081
01:04:11,000 --> 01:04:14,560
Speaker 1: up on YouTube. It's always whatever the name of it is,

1082
01:04:14,960 --> 01:04:18,520
Speaker 1: dot m o V, which is a file type that

1083
01:04:18,800 --> 01:04:22,400
Speaker 1: nothing hardly any system uses anymore. So he's using some

1084
01:04:22,520 --> 01:04:26,200
Speaker 1: antiquated software and doesn't know what he's doing, but it's

1085
01:04:26,240 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 1: just freaking weird. His user name of notes, Oh yeah,

1086
01:04:31,960 --> 01:04:37,040
Speaker 1: Mr one twelve dirt Bag one twelve being the road

1087
01:04:37,080 --> 01:04:39,600
Speaker 1: she was found on, her car was found on. Yeah,

1088
01:04:39,720 --> 01:04:42,080
Speaker 1: let's just say, you know the significance of that is

1089
01:04:42,120 --> 01:04:45,880
Speaker 1: like her father, Marrow's father, Fred had said at one

1090
01:04:45,880 --> 01:04:49,800
Speaker 1: point that he believed that she had just been abducted

1091
01:04:49,800 --> 01:04:51,840
Speaker 1: by some dirt bag and that was literally his word

1092
01:04:51,920 --> 01:04:55,280
Speaker 1: was the word he used was dirt bag. Yeah, and

1093
01:04:55,360 --> 01:04:57,120
Speaker 1: so apparently I don't know that this guy is just

1094
01:04:57,160 --> 01:05:00,480
Speaker 1: some internet psycho that wants to torment the family. Well,

1095
01:05:00,480 --> 01:05:02,640
Speaker 1: there's some of the videos that he released were just

1096
01:05:02,760 --> 01:05:06,600
Speaker 1: like line drawings. There was one just like a girl

1097
01:05:06,680 --> 01:05:11,160
Speaker 1: with a black eye. Yeah, it's you can find information

1098
01:05:11,200 --> 01:05:14,880
Speaker 1: on this online here. What I'm going to say about

1099
01:05:14,880 --> 01:05:17,720
Speaker 1: this is there's been there's been some forensic is the

1100
01:05:17,760 --> 01:05:22,439
Speaker 1: wrong word, but psychological uh interpretation. You know, people who

1101
01:05:22,520 --> 01:05:27,439
Speaker 1: understand this mental standpoint have looked into it and they've

1102
01:05:27,480 --> 01:05:30,640
Speaker 1: realized that all this dude is doing is he knows

1103
01:05:30,880 --> 01:05:34,640
Speaker 1: that he can get a rise out of these people. Sure,

1104
01:05:34,480 --> 01:05:37,920
Speaker 1: you're gonna a little pain, and that he's got power

1105
01:05:38,040 --> 01:05:41,280
Speaker 1: over them and he's getting off on that power. All

1106
01:05:41,400 --> 01:05:43,480
Speaker 1: it is. I'm kind of surprised that is that the

1107
01:05:43,520 --> 01:05:47,320
Speaker 1: authorities haven't done anything in terms of trying to like

1108
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:49,080
Speaker 1: track this guy down and what doesn't seem like it

1109
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: to be that hard because I think that he's a

1110
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:54,440
Speaker 1: troll and they just don't care. It's obvious that this

1111
01:05:54,440 --> 01:05:58,120
Speaker 1: guy is just a troll, he's just a weirdo, because

1112
01:05:58,160 --> 01:06:02,520
Speaker 1: I mean he cropped up years later. That just is

1113
01:06:02,600 --> 01:06:04,680
Speaker 1: some guy who found something that he knew he could

1114
01:06:04,720 --> 01:06:08,320
Speaker 1: fixate on and get his his power jolly's off of Yeah,

1115
01:06:08,480 --> 01:06:10,160
Speaker 1: I think that's what what it is too. But you know,

1116
01:06:10,160 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 1: if you're going to do your due diligence as a

1117
01:06:11,760 --> 01:06:16,120
Speaker 1: law enforcement off and you should find him this house

1118
01:06:16,160 --> 01:06:17,880
Speaker 1: with one of them there could ever dogs, you know,

1119
01:06:17,960 --> 01:06:21,000
Speaker 1: and see what you can find in the backyard. Yeah,

1120
01:06:21,240 --> 01:06:24,280
Speaker 1: but I'm sure he's just some random sick Oh yeah.

1121
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:26,680
Speaker 1: So there's one more thing that I'd like to just

1122
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:31,760
Speaker 1: like note here, and this cropped up in it is

1123
01:06:31,880 --> 01:06:34,840
Speaker 1: kind of like flew onto my radar. I guess when

1124
01:06:34,840 --> 01:06:38,640
Speaker 1: I was doing my research there, you know, as many

1125
01:06:38,680 --> 01:06:40,640
Speaker 1: of you know, I do some of my research on radit.

1126
01:06:41,680 --> 01:06:44,760
Speaker 1: So there was a threat about this, and somebody posted

1127
01:06:44,800 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 1: this quote and said, oh, here's my source, and it

1128
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:52,840
Speaker 1: was Wikipedia. But the Wikipedia article doesn't have this quote

1129
01:06:52,880 --> 01:06:59,080
Speaker 1: anymore on it removed. So I thought that was extra interesting.

1130
01:06:59,560 --> 01:07:02,040
Speaker 1: While we're going down the yellow Brick road. So I'm

1131
01:07:02,080 --> 01:07:03,880
Speaker 1: just going to read the little excerpt that was on

1132
01:07:03,920 --> 01:07:06,600
Speaker 1: Wikipedia that, as far as I can tell, is no

1133
01:07:06,680 --> 01:07:10,160
Speaker 1: longer on Wikipedia. It says at some point the New

1134
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:13,480
Speaker 1: Hampshire State Police trooper had been at the scene. The

1135
01:07:13,560 --> 01:07:16,280
Speaker 1: nature and extent of his involvement has not been disclosed.

1136
01:07:16,360 --> 01:07:18,920
Speaker 1: The Murray family had reported that they have discovered that

1137
01:07:18,960 --> 01:07:22,080
Speaker 1: there was no radio communication between the state police officer

1138
01:07:22,160 --> 01:07:25,280
Speaker 1: and his station for approximately two hours after he arrived

1139
01:07:25,280 --> 01:07:27,800
Speaker 1: on the scene. I feel that significant and I feel

1140
01:07:27,800 --> 01:07:30,560
Speaker 1: it's interesting that it's not on Wikipedia anymore. Well, what

1141
01:07:30,720 --> 01:07:34,600
Speaker 1: is it saying though, it's saying that after her crash

1142
01:07:34,680 --> 01:07:38,040
Speaker 1: at when her when she disappeared, a New Hampshire State

1143
01:07:38,040 --> 01:07:40,360
Speaker 1: trooper arrived on the scene, right, I understand that, but

1144
01:07:40,720 --> 01:07:44,840
Speaker 1: what what is what is the implication or significance of

1145
01:07:44,920 --> 01:07:47,680
Speaker 1: the fact that he didn't went on the radio for

1146
01:07:47,720 --> 01:07:49,760
Speaker 1: two hours he went dark for two hours because he

1147
01:07:49,840 --> 01:07:53,800
Speaker 1: was busy murdering mar Murray. Is the implication. I mean,

1148
01:07:53,800 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 1: it's one implication. I think that again, it's that whole

1149
01:07:56,880 --> 01:07:59,600
Speaker 1: like grasping at straws on this case. That like, if

1150
01:07:59,600 --> 01:08:01,520
Speaker 1: we're going to say that Kate is a person of

1151
01:08:01,560 --> 01:08:04,160
Speaker 1: interest because her father made a homemade bomb and tried

1152
01:08:04,200 --> 01:08:07,080
Speaker 1: to like blow up his neighbor, maybe the guy didn't

1153
01:08:07,120 --> 01:08:12,000
Speaker 1: report in. He went to the dinery, he had a cigarette, coffee,

1154
01:08:12,040 --> 01:08:16,160
Speaker 1: eighteen slices of pie, and then finally waddled back to

1155
01:08:16,320 --> 01:08:20,840
Speaker 1: his car and radio after That's possible. But you know,

1156
01:08:21,240 --> 01:08:23,320
Speaker 1: I don't forget this too, is that the fact that

1157
01:08:23,360 --> 01:08:27,120
Speaker 1: there was no radio communication for two hours is probably

1158
01:08:27,120 --> 01:08:29,760
Speaker 1: b s also, So I mean, you can account for

1159
01:08:29,760 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: a two hour gap, but bear in mind the two

1160
01:08:32,080 --> 01:08:34,320
Speaker 1: hour gap probably never exists at the beginning. Yeah, And

1161
01:08:34,439 --> 01:08:36,680
Speaker 1: you know, and that's my big question mark, right, is that,

1162
01:08:36,760 --> 01:08:39,200
Speaker 1: like I can't say I can't substantiate this at all,

1163
01:08:40,240 --> 01:08:43,840
Speaker 1: but I can say that, like, Okay, it's weird that

1164
01:08:43,880 --> 01:08:46,360
Speaker 1: maybe he wouldn't have been in contact for two hours

1165
01:08:46,400 --> 01:08:49,920
Speaker 1: after discovering that a young year old woman had wandered

1166
01:08:49,960 --> 01:08:52,760
Speaker 1: away from the scene of her car crash with her

1167
01:08:52,800 --> 01:08:56,240
Speaker 1: debit card and not much else. And it's significant also

1168
01:08:56,320 --> 01:08:58,439
Speaker 1: that perhaps that is no longer part of the like

1169
01:08:58,479 --> 01:09:04,120
Speaker 1: Wikipedia Common Commons information, you know. And again I'm not

1170
01:09:04,280 --> 01:09:07,640
Speaker 1: I'm not saying that it actually is the Netland. I

1171
01:09:07,680 --> 01:09:10,800
Speaker 1: can see this being removed if there's no source, because

1172
01:09:10,840 --> 01:09:13,400
Speaker 1: you've got to back these things out of People just

1173
01:09:13,439 --> 01:09:16,160
Speaker 1: go into Wiki and do stuff all the time, and

1174
01:09:16,200 --> 01:09:21,680
Speaker 1: the moderators realize that there's no basis for it, and

1175
01:09:21,800 --> 01:09:24,679
Speaker 1: the kinds of cases of that, and you maybe get

1176
01:09:24,720 --> 01:09:27,559
Speaker 1: contacted by some of these lawyers you say, hey, this

1177
01:09:27,720 --> 01:09:31,160
Speaker 1: is liable. Yeah, yeah, And so you know, I guess

1178
01:09:31,200 --> 01:09:35,800
Speaker 1: I just feel that it's worth mentioning just for the

1179
01:09:35,960 --> 01:09:45,639
Speaker 1: sake of prosperity. Prosterity. She's making up for the missing

1180
01:09:45,760 --> 01:09:48,679
Speaker 1: letters man. All right, well where are we at now?

1181
01:09:48,760 --> 01:09:53,320
Speaker 1: So I guess we're kind of in the theories are

1182
01:09:53,479 --> 01:09:59,599
Speaker 1: I think obviously theory number one UFO abduction abduction, although

1183
01:09:59,600 --> 01:10:03,479
Speaker 1: there's a lack of you know, lights and stuff like that. Well, actually,

1184
01:10:03,520 --> 01:10:06,160
Speaker 1: you know what is actually again kind of worth note

1185
01:10:06,840 --> 01:10:11,800
Speaker 1: There are no actual alien UFO abduction theories in this,

1186
01:10:11,960 --> 01:10:14,720
Speaker 1: which is odd because there always are, and they never

1187
01:10:14,720 --> 01:10:18,000
Speaker 1: saw nobody saw any blue lights nearby. No, and right,

1188
01:10:18,160 --> 01:10:21,679
Speaker 1: like a little bit last week showed the black hole

1189
01:10:21,720 --> 01:10:24,040
Speaker 1: of all UFO things, and so we we we had

1190
01:10:24,120 --> 01:10:26,280
Speaker 1: sucked them all up. So there's none left for this story,

1191
01:10:26,560 --> 01:10:34,120
Speaker 1: all right, that's fair. So not Well, so there's the

1192
01:10:34,120 --> 01:10:36,960
Speaker 1: theory that she ran away. Yeah, she ran away, And

1193
01:10:37,000 --> 01:10:39,120
Speaker 1: then I guess there's like the sub theories of and

1194
01:10:39,200 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 1: it went horribly right or it went horribly wrong? Right, Okay,

1195
01:10:44,000 --> 01:10:47,040
Speaker 1: so flushed this out? Well, I mean, she could have

1196
01:10:47,120 --> 01:10:49,200
Speaker 1: run away and meant to kind of fake her own

1197
01:10:49,240 --> 01:10:52,840
Speaker 1: death to like truly escape her life, right, that's the

1198
01:10:52,880 --> 01:10:57,200
Speaker 1: thing we know about. Yeah, but there's good evidence that

1199
01:10:57,280 --> 01:10:59,800
Speaker 1: she didn't do that. There is, Yeah, I mean, for

1200
01:11:00,000 --> 01:11:02,759
Speaker 1: of things, she left without much money in her pocket.

1201
01:11:03,320 --> 01:11:04,680
Speaker 1: And if you to believe her dad, and I have

1202
01:11:04,800 --> 01:11:07,639
Speaker 1: no reason to doubt her, to doubt her dad did

1203
01:11:07,680 --> 01:11:11,120
Speaker 1: they were looking for a new car for her, right, So,

1204
01:11:11,240 --> 01:11:14,400
Speaker 1: and and again, I mean, people are casting expersions of

1205
01:11:14,439 --> 01:11:16,200
Speaker 1: this guy, but I don't have any reason to believe

1206
01:11:16,280 --> 01:11:19,559
Speaker 1: that he was lying about that. So therefore, if you're

1207
01:11:19,560 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 1: going to run away, and also let's not forget that

1208
01:11:21,880 --> 01:11:25,519
Speaker 1: she cleaned out her bank account, but she had checks

1209
01:11:25,560 --> 01:11:28,519
Speaker 1: on the way, checks were in the mail, right, So

1210
01:11:28,560 --> 01:11:30,800
Speaker 1: if you're gonna disappear, aren't you gonna wait for those

1211
01:11:30,880 --> 01:11:32,439
Speaker 1: checks to come so you have a little more cash

1212
01:11:32,479 --> 01:11:36,280
Speaker 1: to carry with you? Yeah? But yeah, I mean, but

1213
01:11:36,439 --> 01:11:38,320
Speaker 1: you're basically gonna wait for You're gonna wait for that

1214
01:11:38,360 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 1: stuff to happen, and you're probably gonna go ahead and

1215
01:11:41,960 --> 01:11:44,320
Speaker 1: wait an extra week for the new car to materialize.

1216
01:11:44,360 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: Because if you're gonna go on the run and disappear,

1217
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:48,599
Speaker 1: it's obviously better to do it with a newer, nicer,

1218
01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:52,960
Speaker 1: more reliable car. So that's why I completely discount the

1219
01:11:52,960 --> 01:11:55,760
Speaker 1: thought that she ran away. Well here, my, my, my

1220
01:11:55,880 --> 01:12:00,160
Speaker 1: problem with this theory is that, and again I am

1221
01:12:00,200 --> 01:12:06,160
Speaker 1: not saying anything bad about Mara, but she has proven

1222
01:12:06,360 --> 01:12:12,040
Speaker 1: to not have exercised the best decision making in a

1223
01:12:12,120 --> 01:12:15,880
Speaker 1: lot of scenario and so I don't know that she

1224
01:12:15,920 --> 01:12:19,200
Speaker 1: would have necessarily said, well, I've got two eighty bucks

1225
01:12:19,200 --> 01:12:22,360
Speaker 1: in the bank right now, but if I wait five days,

1226
01:12:23,000 --> 01:12:27,920
Speaker 1: I'll have another four hundred bucks and I can take off.

1227
01:12:27,960 --> 01:12:30,320
Speaker 1: She may have just said I had two bucks, but

1228
01:12:30,560 --> 01:12:33,920
Speaker 1: I'm out. I'm bucks and booze and that's gonna hold me.

1229
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:36,679
Speaker 1: I just gotta go, yeah, okay, that's that's fine too,

1230
01:12:36,960 --> 01:12:39,760
Speaker 1: very shortsighted, thinking, well, you know, it is it is,

1231
01:12:39,800 --> 01:12:45,679
Speaker 1: But was incredibly determined and decided, even after she crashed

1232
01:12:45,680 --> 01:12:47,479
Speaker 1: her car, that she was gonna go ahead and continue

1233
01:12:47,479 --> 01:12:50,920
Speaker 1: with her disappearance anyway. You know, I still think I

1234
01:12:51,240 --> 01:12:53,439
Speaker 1: don't believe it. I think that at that point she

1235
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:55,880
Speaker 1: would say, well, my my disappearing act is kind of

1236
01:12:55,920 --> 01:12:58,600
Speaker 1: like kind of like just augured in and as a

1237
01:12:58,600 --> 01:13:01,799
Speaker 1: complete failure. So I'm gonna go back home, I'm gonna regroup,

1238
01:13:01,840 --> 01:13:04,240
Speaker 1: and I'm gonna like disappear a little bit like another

1239
01:13:04,280 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 1: month down the line when I've got a new car.

1240
01:13:06,280 --> 01:13:08,120
Speaker 1: But the other thing about it is is, okay, her

1241
01:13:08,200 --> 01:13:11,679
Speaker 1: judgment was bad. She was thinking erratically, I thought, thinking

1242
01:13:11,760 --> 01:13:14,760
Speaker 1: I will disappear. Well, ten years have gone by, She's

1243
01:13:14,760 --> 01:13:17,439
Speaker 1: had plenty of time to rethink her decision. She's probably

1244
01:13:17,439 --> 01:13:19,599
Speaker 1: been out there, if she's still alive, which I doubt,

1245
01:13:20,000 --> 01:13:21,720
Speaker 1: she's been out there eating a lot of you know

1246
01:13:21,800 --> 01:13:24,920
Speaker 1: what and not doing that well. So at some point

1247
01:13:24,960 --> 01:13:27,120
Speaker 1: she's going to call home and say I'm sorry. I

1248
01:13:27,439 --> 01:13:29,960
Speaker 1: thought i'd run away from home and it hasn't worked

1249
01:13:29,960 --> 01:13:35,760
Speaker 1: out that well. Well, But this was not a month ago. Um,

1250
01:13:35,479 --> 01:13:39,000
Speaker 1: I was reading the story of there was a guy

1251
01:13:39,240 --> 01:13:44,840
Speaker 1: in that region who I cannot remember what they called him,

1252
01:13:44,840 --> 01:13:48,879
Speaker 1: but he was the guy who would break into summer

1253
01:13:48,920 --> 01:13:51,559
Speaker 1: homes in the winter and steal all their food and

1254
01:13:51,600 --> 01:13:56,519
Speaker 1: their batteries and just he was a phantom and he

1255
01:13:56,520 --> 01:13:58,679
Speaker 1: would come in and he would just you know, jimmy,

1256
01:13:58,720 --> 01:14:01,280
Speaker 1: open a window and he's see all the food stuff,

1257
01:14:01,479 --> 01:14:05,240
Speaker 1: some batteries, and some clothes and disappeared. Never did any damage,

1258
01:14:05,240 --> 01:14:08,160
Speaker 1: but he just steal it all. The guy lived in

1259
01:14:08,200 --> 01:14:14,400
Speaker 1: the woods for twenty freaking years and he flat out

1260
01:14:14,439 --> 01:14:18,120
Speaker 1: he did the same thing. He one day drove away,

1261
01:14:18,120 --> 01:14:20,759
Speaker 1: backed his car up and parked it on a service

1262
01:14:20,880 --> 01:14:25,719
Speaker 1: road and started hiking, and he just disappeared. And how

1263
01:14:25,760 --> 01:14:30,160
Speaker 1: he survived the cold in attent is you know, it's

1264
01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:33,880
Speaker 1: a stroke of luck. But he did it, and people

1265
01:14:34,040 --> 01:14:36,960
Speaker 1: do that. So yeah. But he didn't say, well, I

1266
01:14:37,000 --> 01:14:38,880
Speaker 1: better wait till all my paychecks come through and I

1267
01:14:38,960 --> 01:14:41,360
Speaker 1: got money because I'm gonna go. No, he was like,

1268
01:14:41,400 --> 01:14:43,200
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna use money. I'm just gonna get out.

1269
01:14:43,400 --> 01:14:46,479
Speaker 1: There's no there's no reason to believe that Marl Mury

1270
01:14:46,560 --> 01:14:48,960
Speaker 1: was that kind of a hardcore person though. I mean,

1271
01:14:49,080 --> 01:14:51,639
Speaker 1: she hasn't obviously had experience with hiking in the outdoors

1272
01:14:51,680 --> 01:14:55,000
Speaker 1: and stuff. But that guy was no hardcore survivalist either.

1273
01:14:56,720 --> 01:14:59,320
Speaker 1: It's just an example, Yeah, it's it's a great example.

1274
01:14:59,439 --> 01:15:02,880
Speaker 1: But when he look at the probabilities here, um, the

1275
01:15:02,920 --> 01:15:05,800
Speaker 1: probability that she's just disappeared to start a new last

1276
01:15:05,800 --> 01:15:09,080
Speaker 1: sumwhere versus what else could have happened, like being abducted

1277
01:15:09,120 --> 01:15:12,519
Speaker 1: and murdered, Well, I've got to say abduction and murders

1278
01:15:12,920 --> 01:15:16,400
Speaker 1: a much much stronger possibility. Yeah, I mean I think

1279
01:15:16,439 --> 01:15:20,679
Speaker 1: that the interesting bit. You know, there's so many of those,

1280
01:15:21,040 --> 01:15:25,560
Speaker 1: and we're just totally omitting all of the like sightings

1281
01:15:25,600 --> 01:15:28,599
Speaker 1: of Marrow Murray that have called in in the last

1282
01:15:28,640 --> 01:15:32,920
Speaker 1: ten years, mostly because like, please go online and look

1283
01:15:32,920 --> 01:15:35,120
Speaker 1: at pictures of her. She's like one of the most

1284
01:15:35,160 --> 01:15:40,040
Speaker 1: innocuous white women ever. I mean, she's got brown hair,

1285
01:15:40,680 --> 01:15:44,840
Speaker 1: she looks like a totally normal, like attractive, but not

1286
01:15:45,000 --> 01:15:49,280
Speaker 1: like so attractive that you would notice her blending in

1287
01:15:49,560 --> 01:15:52,960
Speaker 1: white woman. And I have so many friends who kind

1288
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:54,960
Speaker 1: of do that whole like a woman to go to

1289
01:15:55,000 --> 01:15:57,720
Speaker 1: Alaska and like work in a fish processing plant for

1290
01:15:57,760 --> 01:15:59,559
Speaker 1: a couple of years and like do you think that

1291
01:15:59,560 --> 01:16:03,720
Speaker 1: they're relatigious about like actually, you know, having a work

1292
01:16:03,840 --> 01:16:06,920
Speaker 1: visa and like proving who you are, like running a

1293
01:16:06,960 --> 01:16:09,720
Speaker 1: background check and all that. So no, I mean they

1294
01:16:09,720 --> 01:16:11,720
Speaker 1: may pay you in cash and like that's fine because

1295
01:16:11,760 --> 01:16:14,680
Speaker 1: it's cheaper for them in the long run. You know.

1296
01:16:14,720 --> 01:16:16,439
Speaker 1: It's not to say that that's what she did, but

1297
01:16:16,520 --> 01:16:19,640
Speaker 1: it would be possible for her to have escaped someplace.

1298
01:16:20,240 --> 01:16:22,320
Speaker 1: You know, I had taken a job under the table

1299
01:16:22,360 --> 01:16:24,160
Speaker 1: for a little while until she could earn the money

1300
01:16:24,200 --> 01:16:27,920
Speaker 1: to make it out of the country and just go. Well,

1301
01:16:27,960 --> 01:16:29,920
Speaker 1: and and here's one of the things. I don't know

1302
01:16:29,960 --> 01:16:33,520
Speaker 1: if we've talked about this. When you pull up Woodsville

1303
01:16:33,920 --> 01:16:37,600
Speaker 1: where she crashed her car, it is less than a

1304
01:16:37,680 --> 01:16:40,160
Speaker 1: hundred miles away from the Canadian board. So you think

1305
01:16:40,200 --> 01:16:44,439
Speaker 1: the Canadians did it. I don't think the Canadians. But

1306
01:16:44,800 --> 01:16:49,360
Speaker 1: they stopped her full of Tim Horton's and you know,

1307
01:16:49,439 --> 01:16:52,920
Speaker 1: and maple syrup and said, okay a, no, I think

1308
01:16:52,920 --> 01:16:55,200
Speaker 1: that it's it's one of those things where if she's

1309
01:16:55,479 --> 01:16:59,439
Speaker 1: if she's running from, I don't know what she thought

1310
01:16:59,560 --> 01:17:02,200
Speaker 1: was so terrible that she had to run from. And

1311
01:17:02,240 --> 01:17:04,400
Speaker 1: you look at where Amurs is and you look where

1312
01:17:04,439 --> 01:17:08,479
Speaker 1: she crashed. She drove two and a half hours north

1313
01:17:09,040 --> 01:17:12,559
Speaker 1: and she was about an hour or so away from

1314
01:17:12,680 --> 01:17:16,080
Speaker 1: crossing the border and go into a new life. And

1315
01:17:16,120 --> 01:17:18,439
Speaker 1: what do people do and you you mentioned this, what

1316
01:17:18,520 --> 01:17:19,800
Speaker 1: do people do when they want to make me like

1317
01:17:19,880 --> 01:17:22,280
Speaker 1: they go to another country and they just start over

1318
01:17:22,320 --> 01:17:25,639
Speaker 1: with a and just have basics. And I have no idea.

1319
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:28,519
Speaker 1: This is two thousand four, of course, this is after leven,

1320
01:17:29,160 --> 01:17:31,439
Speaker 1: so there would be a record of a border crossing.

1321
01:17:31,479 --> 01:17:34,040
Speaker 1: I don't know if anybody you know on the US

1322
01:17:34,080 --> 01:17:35,960
Speaker 1: of the Canadian side of the border actually you know,

1323
01:17:36,360 --> 01:17:38,320
Speaker 1: kept track of who crossed the border. But you would

1324
01:17:38,320 --> 01:17:40,679
Speaker 1: think the police would probably have checked on something like that.

1325
01:17:41,000 --> 01:17:44,240
Speaker 1: Maybe they didn't. I mean, it's it's the authorities. I

1326
01:17:44,360 --> 01:17:47,439
Speaker 1: have an amazing ability to be like super authoritarian and

1327
01:17:47,439 --> 01:17:50,840
Speaker 1: everything like that and massively incompetence. I think, well, I

1328
01:17:50,840 --> 01:17:52,600
Speaker 1: think that the thing is right is that, like we

1329
01:17:52,680 --> 01:17:55,960
Speaker 1: keep an incredible record of everybody who comes into our country.

1330
01:17:56,560 --> 01:17:58,360
Speaker 1: I don't know that to keep a great record of

1331
01:17:58,360 --> 01:18:01,320
Speaker 1: who leaves our country now that the Canadians would have

1332
01:18:01,560 --> 01:18:03,479
Speaker 1: the Canadians would have a record if you came in.

1333
01:18:04,120 --> 01:18:06,719
Speaker 1: I gotta be honest, you know. I mean I've I've

1334
01:18:06,840 --> 01:18:11,360
Speaker 1: driven through the Canadian border and waived my passport and

1335
01:18:11,560 --> 01:18:15,080
Speaker 1: kept going yea, and they didn't scan me every stinking

1336
01:18:15,240 --> 01:18:18,200
Speaker 1: time I came through the border. Yeah again. Well, I

1337
01:18:18,200 --> 01:18:20,479
Speaker 1: think what happened after Not eleven, though, is that there's

1338
01:18:20,520 --> 01:18:23,599
Speaker 1: basically the US because somebody of the not eleven um

1339
01:18:24,280 --> 01:18:28,639
Speaker 1: terrorists infiltrated our country to the Canadian border. The US

1340
01:18:28,680 --> 01:18:31,439
Speaker 1: we started clapping down on that, and retaliation, the Canadians

1341
01:18:31,439 --> 01:18:34,360
Speaker 1: started clamping down on us and started putting much stricter

1342
01:18:35,160 --> 01:18:37,320
Speaker 1: rules about who could come in and everything like that.

1343
01:18:37,880 --> 01:18:39,800
Speaker 1: So I I would imagine it by that point in

1344
01:18:39,840 --> 01:18:42,320
Speaker 1: time that they were probably actually scanning all the passports

1345
01:18:42,320 --> 01:18:45,519
Speaker 1: that people coming out. Okay, okay, but but here's the

1346
01:18:45,600 --> 01:18:53,960
Speaker 1: problem with that is that you're presuming that she was checked. Okay, Well,

1347
01:18:54,000 --> 01:19:00,479
Speaker 1: let's just say for giggles, let's just say that Mara ran.

1348
01:19:01,160 --> 01:19:04,720
Speaker 1: She ran north on the road, or she got a

1349
01:19:04,840 --> 01:19:07,000
Speaker 1: ride and one of those cars that went by, and

1350
01:19:07,120 --> 01:19:09,240
Speaker 1: she gets in a car and she gets out to

1351
01:19:09,320 --> 01:19:11,639
Speaker 1: I think it's Interstate ninety one, is that right, Devon?

1352
01:19:11,720 --> 01:19:14,479
Speaker 1: She gets one one and she hooked. She thumbs a

1353
01:19:14,680 --> 01:19:18,200
Speaker 1: ride and she gets some family and a camper, or

1354
01:19:18,280 --> 01:19:21,120
Speaker 1: she gets some dude that's driving a truck and she

1355
01:19:21,200 --> 01:19:24,720
Speaker 1: gives some sob story about running away from whatever she's

1356
01:19:24,760 --> 01:19:27,479
Speaker 1: running away from and just says, listen, I can't be tracked.

1357
01:19:27,720 --> 01:19:30,160
Speaker 1: Can I hide in the back and can you tell

1358
01:19:30,200 --> 01:19:32,720
Speaker 1: them that no, there's nobody else with you? And she

1359
01:19:32,840 --> 01:19:37,080
Speaker 1: goes through and she's unchecked. I mean, there's a brazilion

1360
01:19:37,160 --> 01:19:41,400
Speaker 1: ways that you know, you guys are piling improbability on

1361
01:19:41,439 --> 01:19:44,600
Speaker 1: top of improbability. I'm saying that it's possible that she

1362
01:19:44,640 --> 01:19:49,240
Speaker 1: could have done it. I think that's the case. It's

1363
01:19:49,479 --> 01:19:52,800
Speaker 1: entirely possible. I personally agree with Joe with what Joe

1364
01:19:52,800 --> 01:19:57,559
Speaker 1: has been railroading this, But I'm saying, here's what's possible. Well,

1365
01:19:57,600 --> 01:20:00,080
Speaker 1: and I think that like the probability of like you

1366
01:20:00,200 --> 01:20:03,639
Speaker 1: hooked a ride, right, are you going to end up

1367
01:20:03,680 --> 01:20:07,040
Speaker 1: like actually catching her ride with like a really kindly

1368
01:20:07,080 --> 01:20:09,799
Speaker 1: person who like smuggles you across the border of Canada.

1369
01:20:10,240 --> 01:20:14,080
Speaker 1: Or are you gonna hook her ride with like Psycho

1370
01:20:14,200 --> 01:20:16,439
Speaker 1: who murders you in the closet of an a frame.

1371
01:20:17,960 --> 01:20:19,880
Speaker 1: I don't know. I know that's that's one of the

1372
01:20:19,960 --> 01:20:22,680
Speaker 1: huge problems with this story and why I don't want

1373
01:20:22,720 --> 01:20:25,680
Speaker 1: to go like too far down the rabbit hole of theories. Right, So,

1374
01:20:25,760 --> 01:20:28,720
Speaker 1: like there are some like broad stroke theories that like

1375
01:20:28,800 --> 01:20:32,320
Speaker 1: we could mention, but once you start getting into that whole, like, well,

1376
01:20:32,520 --> 01:20:35,040
Speaker 1: she tried to run away but things went wrong, Like

1377
01:20:35,120 --> 01:20:37,640
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, are you kidding me? That's like a

1378
01:20:37,840 --> 01:20:40,240
Speaker 1: million different threads of like oh, and then this could

1379
01:20:40,280 --> 01:20:41,760
Speaker 1: have happened, and this could have happened, and that could

1380
01:20:41,760 --> 01:20:44,960
Speaker 1: have happened, and maybe it was this. Maybe it's there's

1381
01:20:45,000 --> 01:20:47,960
Speaker 1: so many different places to go, and then you know,

1382
01:20:47,960 --> 01:20:49,800
Speaker 1: on top of that, you've got the well she ran

1383
01:20:49,840 --> 01:20:52,679
Speaker 1: away and successfully faked her death and it's like living

1384
01:20:52,920 --> 01:20:56,439
Speaker 1: high and mighty and like Tahiti right now, right, or

1385
01:20:57,840 --> 01:21:00,720
Speaker 1: there was some foul play aspect in it. It's just

1386
01:21:00,800 --> 01:21:04,799
Speaker 1: so I think I think we as as a trio

1387
01:21:04,960 --> 01:21:08,040
Speaker 1: here had this conversation before we hit the record button today,

1388
01:21:08,520 --> 01:21:12,080
Speaker 1: is that there's so many threads of this story that

1389
01:21:12,280 --> 01:21:17,200
Speaker 1: could run nowhere that it is near impossible to just

1390
01:21:17,320 --> 01:21:20,160
Speaker 1: pull on one and try and get to the root

1391
01:21:20,240 --> 01:21:23,960
Speaker 1: of what actually happened, because the whole thing, it doesn't unravel,

1392
01:21:24,400 --> 01:21:28,720
Speaker 1: it not, it turns into a giant ball of information

1393
01:21:29,120 --> 01:21:31,120
Speaker 1: and you can't find your way out of it. And

1394
01:21:31,120 --> 01:21:35,680
Speaker 1: there's so much, so much again pollution from the Internet,

1395
01:21:34,640 --> 01:21:43,360
Speaker 1: and extraneous information that doesn't maybe actually have say, for example,

1396
01:21:43,439 --> 01:21:46,760
Speaker 1: the credit card thing, you know, that's that's extraneous. But

1397
01:21:46,760 --> 01:21:48,840
Speaker 1: but but anyway, you get back to again the running

1398
01:21:48,840 --> 01:21:52,000
Speaker 1: away thing. I'm not saying it's completely beyond the realm

1399
01:21:52,000 --> 01:21:55,160
Speaker 1: of possibility, but in order to believe that, seriously, have

1400
01:21:55,200 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 1: to believe that she was one to take off with

1401
01:21:56,920 --> 01:22:00,880
Speaker 1: a car that barely ran with only buck and that

1402
01:22:01,000 --> 01:22:03,839
Speaker 1: she immediately boo blew a big chunk of that on booze.

1403
01:22:04,400 --> 01:22:06,760
Speaker 1: Bad judgment all the way around, And when she could

1404
01:22:06,760 --> 01:22:08,599
Speaker 1: have actually hung around for a few days and gotten

1405
01:22:08,600 --> 01:22:10,800
Speaker 1: a bunch more money to take with her owner John's,

1406
01:22:11,320 --> 01:22:14,040
Speaker 1: she was willing to afflict all this pain upon her family.

1407
01:22:14,920 --> 01:22:18,200
Speaker 1: And you know, again, maybe she's maybe she was a sociopath.

1408
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:21,080
Speaker 1: I don't know, but we're extreme, yeah, And and all

1409
01:22:21,080 --> 01:22:23,080
Speaker 1: these years have gone by and she hasn't rethought the

1410
01:22:23,120 --> 01:22:25,280
Speaker 1: fact that maybe I should get in touched, to get

1411
01:22:25,320 --> 01:22:27,719
Speaker 1: in touch with the folks and my brother and sister whatever,

1412
01:22:27,840 --> 01:22:30,680
Speaker 1: you know. I mean, um, it just none of that

1413
01:22:30,760 --> 01:22:35,679
Speaker 1: makes sense at the scene, the car was locked. She left. Yeah, yeah, right,

1414
01:22:36,160 --> 01:22:39,120
Speaker 1: So she left the scene and locked the car, which

1415
01:22:39,200 --> 01:22:41,320
Speaker 1: is obviously if you're going to hang around by your car,

1416
01:22:42,200 --> 01:22:44,640
Speaker 1: you're not gonna lock it. So what happened was you

1417
01:22:44,640 --> 01:22:47,680
Speaker 1: want to keep it safe that actually decided, Yeah, she

1418
01:22:47,760 --> 01:22:50,439
Speaker 1: decided to hoof it, or somebody drove up and offered

1419
01:22:50,439 --> 01:22:52,439
Speaker 1: her a ride, one or the other, and at that

1420
01:22:52,479 --> 01:22:54,439
Speaker 1: point she said, okay, let me lock up my car.

1421
01:22:54,560 --> 01:22:56,200
Speaker 1: She locked her car, she got in a car with

1422
01:22:56,240 --> 01:22:59,560
Speaker 1: somebody or else planning to come back. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

1423
01:23:00,560 --> 01:23:03,000
Speaker 1: So the logical thing for her to have done would

1424
01:23:03,000 --> 01:23:04,839
Speaker 1: have been to walk to one of the nearby houses

1425
01:23:05,000 --> 01:23:08,639
Speaker 1: if she did that, or climb in a car with somebody. So,

1426
01:23:09,160 --> 01:23:11,000
Speaker 1: you know, I think that's what happened. I think that's

1427
01:23:11,040 --> 01:23:14,080
Speaker 1: so much more likely. I think probably what I would

1428
01:23:14,080 --> 01:23:16,920
Speaker 1: do it as I would look at anybody in that

1429
01:23:17,000 --> 01:23:20,439
Speaker 1: town who drives a tow truck. The guy pulled up

1430
01:23:20,439 --> 01:23:22,960
Speaker 1: and said, hey, I have a tow truck company wants

1431
01:23:23,200 --> 01:23:25,000
Speaker 1: hop in. We'll go to my place, you can warm up,

1432
01:23:25,040 --> 01:23:26,920
Speaker 1: we'll come back in my truck. We'll tell your car

1433
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:30,000
Speaker 1: to the nearest garage. The tow truck driver in town

1434
01:23:30,080 --> 01:23:34,320
Speaker 1: is a murderer. Well you're okay, it could be anybody truck.

1435
01:23:34,560 --> 01:23:37,719
Speaker 1: But you know, here's the other thing that's so awkward

1436
01:23:37,760 --> 01:23:42,480
Speaker 1: about this story is we're gonna go back to Renter. Okay,

1437
01:23:42,520 --> 01:23:46,040
Speaker 1: that guy has thrown out a lot of stuff, and

1438
01:23:46,400 --> 01:23:49,040
Speaker 1: I don't put any credence in what I'm about to

1439
01:23:49,080 --> 01:23:55,920
Speaker 1: talk about, but he cast a net of doubt at Fred,

1440
01:23:56,840 --> 01:24:01,439
Speaker 1: and it's a net of incest because he he talks

1441
01:24:01,479 --> 01:24:03,760
Speaker 1: about things of why did she go back to her

1442
01:24:03,840 --> 01:24:07,479
Speaker 1: dad's room and all of this stuff. She was so drunk,

1443
01:24:07,560 --> 01:24:09,760
Speaker 1: Why was she heading back to her dad? Because she

1444
01:24:09,800 --> 01:24:11,280
Speaker 1: had her dad's car and he was going to leave

1445
01:24:11,320 --> 01:24:13,120
Speaker 1: in the morning. She didn't want to wake up hungover.

1446
01:24:13,400 --> 01:24:14,920
Speaker 1: She took it so he could drive her back to

1447
01:24:14,960 --> 01:24:16,799
Speaker 1: the dorm and drive his car back to his hotel

1448
01:24:16,880 --> 01:24:21,720
Speaker 1: room and go to sleep that night. Yeah. But but

1449
01:24:21,840 --> 01:24:24,599
Speaker 1: the stuff, I mean, he's putting out and so this

1450
01:24:24,680 --> 01:24:27,400
Speaker 1: is again, as you said, it's polluting. What's out there

1451
01:24:27,439 --> 01:24:31,000
Speaker 1: is that he is He's yeah again, he's saying, well, well,

1452
01:24:31,040 --> 01:24:33,400
Speaker 1: maybe there was this weird thing of incest and that's

1453
01:24:33,400 --> 01:24:35,680
Speaker 1: why there was this and that. And I think I

1454
01:24:35,800 --> 01:24:39,919
Speaker 1: find it really hard to get even in the realm

1455
01:24:40,160 --> 01:24:45,320
Speaker 1: of acceptable ideas. I think that that's incredibly irresponsible to

1456
01:24:45,360 --> 01:24:47,720
Speaker 1: put that kind of stuff out there. I mean, I

1457
01:24:47,800 --> 01:24:50,160
Speaker 1: don't I don't know her dad or anything like that,

1458
01:24:50,200 --> 01:24:53,400
Speaker 1: but I'm giving it the presumption of the town. Um.

1459
01:24:53,520 --> 01:24:56,960
Speaker 1: You know, I'm going to assume he's not Again. This

1460
01:24:57,000 --> 01:25:01,720
Speaker 1: is this is where I know you have another I

1461
01:25:01,760 --> 01:25:04,000
Speaker 1: just thought there was one little like the other thing

1462
01:25:04,080 --> 01:25:07,080
Speaker 1: that was worth mentioning that has kind of an an

1463
01:25:07,160 --> 01:25:11,479
Speaker 1: interesting spin on this whole thing. Apparently, on the night

1464
01:25:11,520 --> 01:25:17,320
Speaker 1: of February five, two four, so that was the night, yeah,

1465
01:25:17,520 --> 01:25:23,160
Speaker 1: that she broke down crying, and that was February seven, Yeah,

1466
01:25:23,200 --> 01:25:25,400
Speaker 1: it was. It was the night that she broke down

1467
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:29,080
Speaker 1: crying and had to be escorted from after she got

1468
01:25:29,120 --> 01:25:32,080
Speaker 1: back from her break on work and she spent a

1469
01:25:32,080 --> 01:25:34,040
Speaker 1: long time talking to her sister on the phone. Yes,

1470
01:25:34,120 --> 01:25:37,200
Speaker 1: Apparently that night, around the time that she was on

1471
01:25:37,240 --> 01:25:42,599
Speaker 1: her break, a U mask student named Vassi pet Treat.

1472
01:25:42,360 --> 01:25:46,040
Speaker 1: The Treat was the victim of a hit and run accident.

1473
01:25:46,160 --> 01:25:48,599
Speaker 1: He was a pedestrian, She was a pedestrian. The student

1474
01:25:48,640 --> 01:25:51,960
Speaker 1: was a pedestrian, uh and got hit by a car

1475
01:25:52,040 --> 01:25:57,920
Speaker 1: that drove off and probably was never found. A guy

1476
01:25:58,000 --> 01:26:00,320
Speaker 1: or a girl. It's a good question, I think we'll

1477
01:26:00,320 --> 01:26:02,200
Speaker 1: get Let's go with girl. I would say it probably

1478
01:26:02,240 --> 01:26:05,280
Speaker 1: serves your right. Pedestrians usually deserved to get run over.

1479
01:26:07,439 --> 01:26:11,080
Speaker 1: But here's the thing. If she's on her break from work,

1480
01:26:11,680 --> 01:26:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm guessing she had a fifteen minute break. She was

1481
01:26:15,760 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 1: on the phone. She was on the phone with her

1482
01:26:17,439 --> 01:26:20,840
Speaker 1: sister for like an hour, so it would have been

1483
01:26:20,880 --> 01:26:25,640
Speaker 1: a fairly substantial break. So the theory goes that perhaps

1484
01:26:26,080 --> 01:26:28,840
Speaker 1: while on her break, even maybe while on her break

1485
01:26:28,920 --> 01:26:34,000
Speaker 1: on the phone with her sister, she accidentally struck a

1486
01:26:34,000 --> 01:26:38,280
Speaker 1: fellow student slash pedestrian and panicked and ran away from it.

1487
01:26:39,000 --> 01:26:43,640
Speaker 1: And then this theory is like, very odd, but just

1488
01:26:43,800 --> 01:26:46,360
Speaker 1: stick with me for a second. Here borrowed her father's

1489
01:26:46,400 --> 01:26:50,280
Speaker 1: car and practiced running it into a guardrail. What what

1490
01:26:50,680 --> 01:26:53,640
Speaker 1: practiced running it into a guardrail because she wanted to

1491
01:26:53,680 --> 01:26:56,080
Speaker 1: run her own car into a guardrail to cover up

1492
01:26:56,120 --> 01:26:58,439
Speaker 1: for the fact that she had hit somebody and then

1493
01:26:58,479 --> 01:27:01,679
Speaker 1: abandoned the car. But it went terribly wrong. Of course

1494
01:27:01,680 --> 01:27:03,519
Speaker 1: in the end, right, it always goes terribly wrong. But

1495
01:27:03,560 --> 01:27:08,479
Speaker 1: the theory absolutely so. There are a lot of theories. Yeah,

1496
01:27:08,640 --> 01:27:12,360
Speaker 1: so when when this person patri was hit by a car.

1497
01:27:12,960 --> 01:27:15,920
Speaker 1: Did they report it? Yes, that's how they did. They

1498
01:27:16,040 --> 01:27:18,720
Speaker 1: report like a car description and the license number. As

1499
01:27:18,760 --> 01:27:21,519
Speaker 1: far as I know, No, yeah, I mean it probably

1500
01:27:21,720 --> 01:27:23,799
Speaker 1: a description of like, oh, it was a dark sedan,

1501
01:27:24,520 --> 01:27:27,080
Speaker 1: But I think it's far further than that. I don't

1502
01:27:27,080 --> 01:27:29,800
Speaker 1: know it was dark. It was it was night um

1503
01:27:29,840 --> 01:27:32,880
Speaker 1: when this person was hit. So I think that's like

1504
01:27:32,479 --> 01:27:37,360
Speaker 1: an interesting slight aside that like a maths student was

1505
01:27:37,400 --> 01:27:41,800
Speaker 1: the victim of a hidden run shortly before, you know,

1506
01:27:41,840 --> 01:27:43,720
Speaker 1: And it would account for some of the stuff, right,

1507
01:27:43,720 --> 01:27:46,040
Speaker 1: It would account for the fact that, like, you know,

1508
01:27:46,080 --> 01:27:49,599
Speaker 1: a couple hours later, she just lost control, like just

1509
01:27:49,720 --> 01:27:54,760
Speaker 1: realized the implications of what had happened. It would also explain,

1510
01:27:55,160 --> 01:27:57,920
Speaker 1: you know, her getting drunk, like really really drunk the

1511
01:27:57,920 --> 01:28:01,800
Speaker 1: next couple of nights looking for an a car. You know,

1512
01:28:03,080 --> 01:28:05,840
Speaker 1: it would a little bit right, you know, if you said, hey, dad,

1513
01:28:06,000 --> 01:28:07,800
Speaker 1: I hit somebody with my car and I don't know

1514
01:28:07,840 --> 01:28:11,240
Speaker 1: what to do, and maybe the dad Fred was like

1515
01:28:11,320 --> 01:28:14,120
Speaker 1: not the most responsible person, and he was like, well, crap,

1516
01:28:14,240 --> 01:28:16,439
Speaker 1: like we got to cover this thing up. But you're

1517
01:28:16,479 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 1: already on the path of covering things up. Let's buy

1518
01:28:18,439 --> 01:28:21,040
Speaker 1: you a new car, and we'll just here's the weird

1519
01:28:21,040 --> 01:28:25,880
Speaker 1: thing though, is her supervisor walked her home from her job,

1520
01:28:26,200 --> 01:28:28,679
Speaker 1: meaning she didn't drive to works. Well, she may have driven,

1521
01:28:29,400 --> 01:28:32,040
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, it's possible that she or that

1522
01:28:32,200 --> 01:28:34,840
Speaker 1: her car was close, her dorm was close, and she

1523
01:28:34,920 --> 01:28:37,280
Speaker 1: walked back to her car and left to go get

1524
01:28:37,360 --> 01:28:42,160
Speaker 1: food and then came back. These are all total possibility. Yeah,

1525
01:28:42,720 --> 01:28:45,040
Speaker 1: I'm not gonna I don't want to belabor this anymore

1526
01:28:45,120 --> 01:28:49,240
Speaker 1: because there's just so many directions that potentially absolutely but

1527
01:28:49,280 --> 01:28:51,960
Speaker 1: I do think that that's slightly worth the note that

1528
01:28:52,560 --> 01:28:55,640
Speaker 1: there is absolutely no evidence that vos Pat was hit

1529
01:28:55,760 --> 01:29:00,479
Speaker 1: by her. Also, you know, again, as I mentioned Dockbridge,

1530
01:29:00,520 --> 01:29:03,240
Speaker 1: I've I've been there, I've been Amherst, and Amhurst is

1531
01:29:03,280 --> 01:29:06,439
Speaker 1: pretty large, as is the campus. So like it's totally

1532
01:29:06,439 --> 01:29:08,920
Speaker 1: possible that there there's no connection. But we've been talking

1533
01:29:08,920 --> 01:29:12,200
Speaker 1: about grasping at straws, and it's a straw that really

1534
01:29:12,280 --> 01:29:15,360
Speaker 1: is this, This entire thing is a giant straw mata

1535
01:29:15,640 --> 01:29:19,559
Speaker 1: that we are just balancing on. Yeah, so I guess

1536
01:29:19,880 --> 01:29:22,840
Speaker 1: um that's the end of the theories. And I don't

1537
01:29:22,880 --> 01:29:24,439
Speaker 1: really want to ask you guys what your favorite theories

1538
01:29:24,439 --> 01:29:26,200
Speaker 1: are because you already told me what your favorite theories are.

1539
01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:29,280
Speaker 1: I don't really have she was abducted, murdered, and she's

1540
01:29:29,320 --> 01:29:31,920
Speaker 1: in a shallow graves. Personally, I hope that she is

1541
01:29:32,120 --> 01:29:37,759
Speaker 1: married to a logger in some Canadian flogging farm happily

1542
01:29:37,800 --> 01:29:41,559
Speaker 1: pumped out seven children too, but I don't think that's Yeah.

1543
01:29:41,600 --> 01:29:44,519
Speaker 1: I hope that she's like living in Tahiti. Yeah, Tahiti

1544
01:29:44,640 --> 01:29:47,880
Speaker 1: is much better married to like some island dude who

1545
01:29:47,920 --> 01:29:51,679
Speaker 1: just like treats her like a queen and lords every

1546
01:29:51,760 --> 01:29:54,400
Speaker 1: day and calls it awesome. Yeah. I hope that she's

1547
01:29:54,439 --> 01:30:00,639
Speaker 1: living in Salem. No, that's horrible, just kidding. That's so.

1548
01:30:00,840 --> 01:30:04,800
Speaker 1: With that, I think we're done talking about Marrow Murray

1549
01:30:04,880 --> 01:30:08,519
Speaker 1: about like three hours later, right something that something like that.

1550
01:30:08,680 --> 01:30:10,519
Speaker 1: What's its edited down? It won't be quite that long,

1551
01:30:10,680 --> 01:30:15,080
Speaker 1: but yeah, it'll be close. So to check out the

1552
01:30:15,160 --> 01:30:17,280
Speaker 1: link some of the links that we've been talking about,

1553
01:30:17,520 --> 01:30:20,080
Speaker 1: go to the internet. Go to the internet. Find out

1554
01:30:20,120 --> 01:30:23,840
Speaker 1: more liable. Uh no, we don't print liable on our

1555
01:30:24,000 --> 01:30:27,679
Speaker 1: our website. That website is thinking Sideways podcast dot com.

1556
01:30:28,120 --> 01:30:31,280
Speaker 1: You can stream our show there. You may be doing

1557
01:30:31,280 --> 01:30:35,680
Speaker 1: that already. If not, you're likely listening to us on iTunes. Uh.

1558
01:30:35,840 --> 01:30:38,519
Speaker 1: If you are listening to us on iTunes, please leave

1559
01:30:38,600 --> 01:30:40,840
Speaker 1: us a comment and rating if you would like. We

1560
01:30:40,880 --> 01:30:44,800
Speaker 1: love that stuff. Uh. It's also how other people find us,

1561
01:30:44,840 --> 01:30:48,320
Speaker 1: which is pretty cool. If you forget to download an

1562
01:30:48,320 --> 01:30:50,400
Speaker 1: episode and you're on the go, you can always stream

1563
01:30:50,439 --> 01:30:55,200
Speaker 1: us on Stitcher. It's pretty cool. We have the Facebook,

1564
01:30:55,240 --> 01:30:58,800
Speaker 1: both facebooks. We are on the Facebook. We are the

1565
01:30:59,320 --> 01:31:04,000
Speaker 1: We are the Facebook. We've got a group and a page,

1566
01:31:04,040 --> 01:31:07,880
Speaker 1: so like us or join us. We post pretty awesome

1567
01:31:07,880 --> 01:31:12,240
Speaker 1: stuff there sometimes. And as always, if you are mar Murray,

1568
01:31:12,439 --> 01:31:19,960
Speaker 1: please God, if you are mar Murray, Murray's murderer, please yeah,

1569
01:31:20,000 --> 01:31:22,439
Speaker 1: I'd rather hear from Marrow. Would you send us an email?

1570
01:31:22,720 --> 01:31:27,360
Speaker 1: That email address is has always Thinking Sideways podcast at

1571
01:31:27,400 --> 01:31:29,960
Speaker 1: gmail dot com. And with that, we are going to

1572
01:31:30,040 --> 01:31:34,559
Speaker 1: stop invading your ear holes. Okay, another mess solved. Let's

1573
01:31:34,600 --> 01:31:37,160
Speaker 1: go have a beer. No, I think I actually think

1574
01:31:37,200 --> 01:31:39,360
Speaker 1: I might need a drink after that. I definitely need

1575
01:31:39,400 --> 01:31:41,800
Speaker 1: like five. All right, can we get on out of here?

1576
01:31:42,320 --> 01:31:46,599
Speaker 1: Thank you everybody. I need to go. Yeah, bye bye