1 00:00:00,120 --> 00:00:05,320 Speaker 1: Humans have way more potential than we realize. So by 2 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,800 Speaker 1: doing something hard when you think you really can't do it, 3 00:00:07,920 --> 00:00:10,119 Speaker 1: we learn a lot about ourselves. And there's some like 4 00:00:10,200 --> 00:00:15,160 Speaker 1: evolutionary machinery that really gets triggered. Our natural environment used 5 00:00:15,160 --> 00:00:17,760 Speaker 1: to show us these sorts of challenges all the time 6 00:00:18,320 --> 00:00:20,239 Speaker 1: because life was tough. We had to do things like 7 00:00:20,680 --> 00:00:24,639 Speaker 1: hunt and gather and move great distances. But nowadays we 8 00:00:24,640 --> 00:00:26,400 Speaker 1: don't really have that, So I think we do need 9 00:00:26,440 --> 00:00:28,280 Speaker 1: these sort of moments that push back at us and 10 00:00:28,320 --> 00:00:29,560 Speaker 1: teach us something about ourselves. 11 00:00:43,600 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 2: Hey everyone, Emily Abadi here, you are listening to another 12 00:00:46,680 --> 00:00:50,800 Speaker 2: installment of Hurdle Moment from Hurdle Today. I am talking 13 00:00:50,880 --> 00:00:54,280 Speaker 2: all about how to get better at getting comfortable with 14 00:00:54,400 --> 00:00:56,520 Speaker 2: the uncomfortable with Michael Easter. 15 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,400 Speaker 3: He is the new author of The Comfort Crisis. 16 00:00:59,440 --> 00:01:02,680 Speaker 2: He's also so a contributing editor at Men's Help Magazine, 17 00:01:02,680 --> 00:01:05,959 Speaker 2: a calmnist for Outside Magazine, and a professor at the 18 00:01:06,040 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 2: University of Nevada, Las Vegas. 19 00:01:08,480 --> 00:01:10,479 Speaker 3: There are endless. 20 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:13,800 Speaker 2: Takeaways in today's episode, but man, is it's so interesting 21 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:17,759 Speaker 2: to talk to someone who has done extensive research on 22 00:01:17,959 --> 00:01:21,080 Speaker 2: a subject that literally impacts each and every one of us. 23 00:01:21,319 --> 00:01:22,880 Speaker 3: Every single day. 24 00:01:23,200 --> 00:01:25,840 Speaker 2: In our chat today, Michael talks a lot about his 25 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:29,039 Speaker 2: research for the book and traveling all the way to 26 00:01:29,120 --> 00:01:33,560 Speaker 2: the Arctic, where he learned a whole lot about getting uncomfortable, 27 00:01:33,760 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 2: and how that experience really shaped the way that he 28 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,120 Speaker 2: goes about his day to day these days. 29 00:01:39,200 --> 00:01:39,400 Speaker 3: Now. 30 00:01:39,480 --> 00:01:41,080 Speaker 2: Of course, not each and every one of us is 31 00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:43,080 Speaker 2: going to go up to the Arctic to learn all 32 00:01:43,160 --> 00:01:45,880 Speaker 2: these lessons, And luckily, because I have Michael on the show, 33 00:01:46,040 --> 00:01:48,080 Speaker 2: you don't have to. But I think a lot of 34 00:01:48,120 --> 00:01:50,280 Speaker 2: the people listening to the show have done things in 35 00:01:50,320 --> 00:01:54,120 Speaker 2: their life that have given this similar perspective, right, whether 36 00:01:54,200 --> 00:01:58,320 Speaker 2: it's running a marathon or making a huge job transition 37 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:01,120 Speaker 2: that you were super scared of these hurdles in life. 38 00:02:01,160 --> 00:02:03,880 Speaker 2: They might not always be expected, but what we learn 39 00:02:04,080 --> 00:02:08,480 Speaker 2: by getting over them and conquering them is absolutely irreplaceable 40 00:02:08,480 --> 00:02:11,640 Speaker 2: when it comes to showing up to future challenges and 41 00:02:11,720 --> 00:02:14,120 Speaker 2: doing the same with those. Like I said, Michael's a 42 00:02:14,160 --> 00:02:16,280 Speaker 2: new author. The book is The Comfort Crisis. I'm going 43 00:02:16,320 --> 00:02:18,200 Speaker 2: to link to it in the show notes. And speaking 44 00:02:18,240 --> 00:02:21,360 Speaker 2: of books, we are currently reading green Lights by Matthew 45 00:02:21,400 --> 00:02:24,160 Speaker 2: McConaughey for the Hurdle Book Club. We are getting together 46 00:02:24,200 --> 00:02:27,640 Speaker 2: to discuss that on July nineteenth. To sign up to 47 00:02:27,680 --> 00:02:30,320 Speaker 2: be kept in the loop for one registration that goes live. 48 00:02:30,680 --> 00:02:33,120 Speaker 2: A link to do that is in the show notes. 49 00:02:33,360 --> 00:02:35,600 Speaker 2: Make sure you're following along with Hurdle over at Hurdle 50 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,399 Speaker 2: Podcast on Instagram, Facebook and Twitter. I am over at 51 00:02:39,480 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 2: Emily a Body and if you haven't subscribed to the 52 00:02:42,280 --> 00:02:45,239 Speaker 2: weekly Hurdle yet, I would love it if you would 53 00:02:45,280 --> 00:02:48,280 Speaker 2: do just that over there, I'm giving you a lot 54 00:02:48,320 --> 00:02:51,200 Speaker 2: of recommendations things that I'm loving. On the regular, I 55 00:02:51,240 --> 00:02:53,440 Speaker 2: get a lot of questions in my DMS asking me 56 00:02:53,639 --> 00:02:57,640 Speaker 2: for my picks for everything from workout shorts to sunscreen 57 00:02:57,880 --> 00:02:59,320 Speaker 2: to things that are in my apartment. 58 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:02,079 Speaker 3: I mean, you name it. Oftentimes I am. 59 00:03:02,120 --> 00:03:05,560 Speaker 2: Revealing my favorites in the newsletter and you can get 60 00:03:05,560 --> 00:03:08,360 Speaker 2: them in your inbox every single Friday. 61 00:03:09,040 --> 00:03:22,960 Speaker 3: That's it for now. With that, let's get to hurdling today. 62 00:03:23,080 --> 00:03:24,840 Speaker 3: I am chatting with Michael Easter. 63 00:03:25,000 --> 00:03:28,480 Speaker 2: He is a new author of The Comfort Crisis Discomfort 64 00:03:28,600 --> 00:03:31,400 Speaker 2: to Reclaim your wild, happy, healthy self. 65 00:03:31,480 --> 00:03:32,280 Speaker 3: How you doing today? 66 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:33,720 Speaker 1: I'm doing well? How are you? 67 00:03:34,520 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 3: I am so good? 68 00:03:36,480 --> 00:03:40,120 Speaker 2: The question right off the bat has to be how 69 00:03:40,160 --> 00:03:42,760 Speaker 2: does a guy get to a point where he says 70 00:03:42,760 --> 00:03:45,280 Speaker 2: to himself, you know what I'm going to do. I'm 71 00:03:45,280 --> 00:03:48,480 Speaker 2: going to write a book about getting uncomfortable. 72 00:03:49,560 --> 00:03:51,680 Speaker 1: Yes, that is a great question. And there were a 73 00:03:51,800 --> 00:03:54,920 Speaker 1: variety of steps for that. So I'll kind of start 74 00:03:54,920 --> 00:03:59,200 Speaker 1: from the beginning. One. I worked at mental for a while, right, 75 00:03:59,560 --> 00:04:02,120 Speaker 1: And I know this pattern in everything I did for 76 00:04:02,200 --> 00:04:06,520 Speaker 1: mental health. Getting healthy, whether it's improving your fitness, losing weight, 77 00:04:06,760 --> 00:04:08,880 Speaker 1: usually comes with some form of discomfort. Right. If I 78 00:04:08,920 --> 00:04:10,960 Speaker 1: want to improve my fitness, I'm gonna have to work out. Well, 79 00:04:10,960 --> 00:04:13,600 Speaker 1: working out is uncomfortable. If I want to lose weight, 80 00:04:13,760 --> 00:04:17,120 Speaker 1: probably gonna be hungry, being hungry socks. Okay, So there's that. 81 00:04:18,200 --> 00:04:22,520 Speaker 1: Then I meet this guy whose name is Donnie Vincent, 82 00:04:22,720 --> 00:04:26,080 Speaker 1: and he's a backhuntry bowhunter and filmmaker. He goes into 83 00:04:26,080 --> 00:04:30,159 Speaker 1: these crazy remote places off the grid and he'll be 84 00:04:30,200 --> 00:04:32,560 Speaker 1: there for like a month, right, And I end up 85 00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:34,320 Speaker 1: doing a story with this guy for Men's Health. So 86 00:04:34,360 --> 00:04:38,240 Speaker 1: we go into the wilds of Nevada for like a week. 87 00:04:38,680 --> 00:04:42,400 Speaker 1: And you know, like working at Men's Health, you have 88 00:04:42,440 --> 00:04:44,640 Speaker 1: to work out a lot, Like you get sent into 89 00:04:44,680 --> 00:04:48,560 Speaker 1: these crazy extreme gyms. I've met some characters whatever, But 90 00:04:48,640 --> 00:04:51,719 Speaker 1: We get up there and it is uncomfortable in all 91 00:04:51,800 --> 00:04:56,480 Speaker 1: these different ways that like I just hadn't experienced forever. Right, 92 00:04:56,600 --> 00:04:59,720 Speaker 1: it's freezing cold the entire time. We're carrying these eighty 93 00:04:59,720 --> 00:05:02,240 Speaker 1: pounds packs on our back the entire time. Like to 94 00:05:02,320 --> 00:05:04,720 Speaker 1: go get water, we have to hike a mile downstream 95 00:05:04,760 --> 00:05:08,159 Speaker 1: and bring it back up. We're bored because hunting is 96 00:05:08,160 --> 00:05:10,080 Speaker 1: actually very boring. It's not like you're just walking through 97 00:05:10,080 --> 00:05:12,360 Speaker 1: the woods, like you're kind of looking through scopes for 98 00:05:12,400 --> 00:05:14,799 Speaker 1: like hours of the time. And we only had one scope, 99 00:05:14,839 --> 00:05:16,800 Speaker 1: and I didn't have my phone and I didn't have service, 100 00:05:16,800 --> 00:05:18,920 Speaker 1: so it's just like, oh, what is boredom? Like this 101 00:05:18,960 --> 00:05:23,719 Speaker 1: is new long story short, Donnie. The story is good. 102 00:05:23,920 --> 00:05:26,360 Speaker 1: Like people like it. We both get a lot of outreach. 103 00:05:27,360 --> 00:05:28,880 Speaker 1: He invites me to come up to the Arctic with 104 00:05:28,960 --> 00:05:32,800 Speaker 1: him for thirty three days, and I'm like, all right, 105 00:05:33,240 --> 00:05:36,719 Speaker 1: let's do it. So I go up there with him 106 00:05:36,839 --> 00:05:40,280 Speaker 1: and it is just Nevada on steroids, where it's like 107 00:05:41,200 --> 00:05:45,480 Speaker 1: I experience all these discomforts that we as humans literally 108 00:05:45,560 --> 00:05:48,360 Speaker 1: experience every single day. The life I lived up there 109 00:05:48,440 --> 00:05:51,159 Speaker 1: was how humans lived for two point five million years 110 00:05:51,839 --> 00:05:54,480 Speaker 1: up until like a couple hundred years ago. But when 111 00:05:54,480 --> 00:05:58,200 Speaker 1: I come back to my nice, safe, comfortable life at home, 112 00:05:58,400 --> 00:06:01,880 Speaker 1: everything is better. Like the dial on my mental, physical, 113 00:06:01,960 --> 00:06:05,840 Speaker 1: and even spiritual health was like eleven. It was just 114 00:06:05,920 --> 00:06:08,040 Speaker 1: unlike anything that ever happened, and I wanted to know 115 00:06:08,120 --> 00:06:11,039 Speaker 1: why that was. So I sort of set off on 116 00:06:11,120 --> 00:06:15,239 Speaker 1: this investigation and I traveled around the world. I read 117 00:06:15,640 --> 00:06:19,120 Speaker 1: way too many studies, like way too many, met with 118 00:06:19,240 --> 00:06:24,719 Speaker 1: people ranging from special forces soldiers, anthropologists at Harvard. I 119 00:06:24,760 --> 00:06:27,480 Speaker 1: went to Bhutan and met with Buddhist leaders, went to Iceland, 120 00:06:27,960 --> 00:06:30,520 Speaker 1: and sort of the conclusion that I came up with 121 00:06:30,800 --> 00:06:35,359 Speaker 1: was that humans need a little bit of discomfort to 122 00:06:35,440 --> 00:06:37,840 Speaker 1: improve their lives. And there are a handful that I've 123 00:06:37,880 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: identified in the book, and they all tend to be 124 00:06:40,560 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 1: things that we used to face all the time, right, 125 00:06:43,839 --> 00:06:46,400 Speaker 1: We used to have to go through hunger like life 126 00:06:46,400 --> 00:06:49,560 Speaker 1: took effort. And even the way that we approach exercise 127 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,560 Speaker 1: today we try and make it comfortable, Like we go 128 00:06:51,560 --> 00:06:54,040 Speaker 1: into these air conditioned gyms and like we get on elliptical, 129 00:06:54,080 --> 00:06:56,559 Speaker 1: it's all like very programmed and scheduled, and then like okay, 130 00:06:56,600 --> 00:06:58,960 Speaker 1: my thirty minutes are up, I'm going to go now, 131 00:06:58,960 --> 00:07:00,400 Speaker 1: I'm going to go like sit on the cap, right, 132 00:07:00,400 --> 00:07:03,960 Speaker 1: whereas life used to force us into challenge and effort. 133 00:07:04,000 --> 00:07:06,920 Speaker 1: And so I've sort of by investigator, sort of by 134 00:07:06,960 --> 00:07:10,400 Speaker 1: weaving back some of these things that I've singled out 135 00:07:10,400 --> 00:07:13,280 Speaker 1: in the book, we can move the dial a lot 136 00:07:13,320 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: in ways that I think are beneficial for people. 137 00:07:15,520 --> 00:07:18,520 Speaker 2: So interesting, I mean, there's so much to tap back 138 00:07:18,600 --> 00:07:22,520 Speaker 2: on here. First and foremost thirty three days in the Arctic. Wow, 139 00:07:22,680 --> 00:07:23,600 Speaker 2: you're married, right? 140 00:07:23,720 --> 00:07:25,520 Speaker 1: I am married? Yes, Okay, you want to hear something 141 00:07:25,520 --> 00:07:27,800 Speaker 1: totally messed up? Though? This is the most messed up 142 00:07:27,800 --> 00:07:29,760 Speaker 1: part of all this book. And I didn't talk about this. 143 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: This is a this is a sore spot. Well, I 144 00:07:31,600 --> 00:07:34,080 Speaker 1: was in the Arctic. My wife went on a freaking 145 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:38,080 Speaker 1: cruise into the Greek Islands. So she's like, oh, She's like, 146 00:07:38,120 --> 00:07:40,240 Speaker 1: oh you're hungry. Yeah, Well I was on a boat 147 00:07:40,280 --> 00:07:41,360 Speaker 1: that's a floating buffet. 148 00:07:41,680 --> 00:07:41,880 Speaker 3: You know. 149 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:44,880 Speaker 1: It was awesome, though it was the ultimate troll. 150 00:07:46,160 --> 00:07:47,640 Speaker 3: The ultimate Oh my goodness. 151 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:49,440 Speaker 2: I was going to say, how did she feel about 152 00:07:49,560 --> 00:07:52,120 Speaker 2: you going to the Arctic for thirty three days? 153 00:07:52,160 --> 00:07:54,760 Speaker 3: But it seems that she managed just fine. 154 00:07:55,360 --> 00:07:57,320 Speaker 2: And then two other things that you brought out really 155 00:07:57,320 --> 00:08:00,160 Speaker 2: interesting to think about the first thing you mentioning, well, 156 00:08:00,160 --> 00:08:03,360 Speaker 2: I didn't have my phone. The phone has become such 157 00:08:03,440 --> 00:08:09,400 Speaker 2: a crutch for us in so many circumstances of discomfort. 158 00:08:09,560 --> 00:08:12,680 Speaker 2: Right you could be anywhere from out to dinner with 159 00:08:12,720 --> 00:08:15,720 Speaker 2: someone to walking down the street, and these are all 160 00:08:15,760 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 2: instances where you have ample opportunity for other social interaction, 161 00:08:19,560 --> 00:08:22,560 Speaker 2: but we lean into our phones to get over that 162 00:08:22,680 --> 00:08:25,120 Speaker 2: hurdle of well, I don't know what's going to happen 163 00:08:25,160 --> 00:08:27,000 Speaker 2: if I actually expose myself to the world. 164 00:08:27,160 --> 00:08:30,000 Speaker 1: Yes, totally, And there's a good reason for this. So 165 00:08:30,120 --> 00:08:34,000 Speaker 1: as humans evolve two things. When we would get bored. 166 00:08:34,600 --> 00:08:37,880 Speaker 1: Boredom is this like evolutionary discomfort that basically tells us, 167 00:08:37,920 --> 00:08:41,560 Speaker 1: whatever you're doing right now, the return on your time 168 00:08:41,559 --> 00:08:43,680 Speaker 1: invested has warn thin, so you need to go do 169 00:08:43,800 --> 00:08:47,080 Speaker 1: something else. So, for example, let's say we're hunting there's 170 00:08:47,120 --> 00:08:49,840 Speaker 1: no animals around, Boredom would kick in and basically be like, yo, 171 00:08:49,880 --> 00:08:51,960 Speaker 1: go do something else. It's going to improve your life, 172 00:08:52,000 --> 00:08:55,480 Speaker 1: So it kept us alive. Number two is that humans 173 00:08:55,520 --> 00:08:58,760 Speaker 1: hate unpredictability. So I talked to this researcher at Brown 174 00:08:58,800 --> 00:09:01,280 Speaker 1: and he's like, the human brain is always going to 175 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: default to something that can predict So we have two 176 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,520 Speaker 1: things going on. One is that now anytime we feel 177 00:09:08,559 --> 00:09:13,080 Speaker 1: even the most tinge of boredom, we have this really 178 00:09:13,240 --> 00:09:18,160 Speaker 1: easy and captivating way to fix it a phone. Number Two, 179 00:09:18,559 --> 00:09:21,560 Speaker 1: with that social thing, it's like, if I'm having a 180 00:09:21,600 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 1: conversation with someone on text, that is so much more 181 00:09:25,080 --> 00:09:28,080 Speaker 1: predictable than if we're having a face to face interaction. 182 00:09:28,440 --> 00:09:31,920 Speaker 1: Because let's say I say something in a way that 183 00:09:32,240 --> 00:09:34,320 Speaker 1: you take wrong. Well, that's scary. But if I'm writing 184 00:09:34,360 --> 00:09:39,200 Speaker 1: a text, I'm like, oh, this person might take that wrong. Delete, delete, delete, 185 00:09:39,360 --> 00:09:42,040 Speaker 1: I can filter it and send it. So yeah, the phone, 186 00:09:42,559 --> 00:09:44,480 Speaker 1: there's a reason now. And something else I talk about 187 00:09:44,480 --> 00:09:46,800 Speaker 1: in the book is that, you know, there's a lot 188 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,680 Speaker 1: of focus on phones, and I think that that is great, 189 00:09:49,760 --> 00:09:52,280 Speaker 1: but I think that sometimes when people try to use 190 00:09:52,320 --> 00:09:57,720 Speaker 1: their phone less, they oftentimes will just default to like, Okay, 191 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,560 Speaker 1: well now I'm just going to watch Netflix instead, or 192 00:10:00,559 --> 00:10:02,520 Speaker 1: now I'm going to be on my computer screen instead, 193 00:10:02,600 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 1: and like, your brain does not know the difference in 194 00:10:05,520 --> 00:10:08,160 Speaker 1: terms of how hard it has to work between the 195 00:10:08,200 --> 00:10:11,320 Speaker 1: screen on your phone and the screen on Netflix, or 196 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,800 Speaker 1: even things like podcasts. And these are all great things, 197 00:10:14,920 --> 00:10:18,360 Speaker 1: but Like, my argument is like, let's not think less phone, 198 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:21,800 Speaker 1: Let's think how can I integrate boredom back into my 199 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,000 Speaker 1: life in a productive way, Because you'll find that once 200 00:10:25,040 --> 00:10:28,560 Speaker 1: you don't have that easy escape into your phone, the 201 00:10:28,600 --> 00:10:31,000 Speaker 1: brain tends to come up with creative ideas. Some of 202 00:10:31,040 --> 00:10:33,200 Speaker 1: them are totally a waste, Like you'll think of some 203 00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:34,920 Speaker 1: wacky stuff that you're just like, where the hellth do 204 00:10:35,040 --> 00:10:37,360 Speaker 1: come from? But a lot of times you'll find something 205 00:10:37,480 --> 00:10:40,240 Speaker 1: interesting and productive, you know. So they do studies where 206 00:10:40,240 --> 00:10:43,240 Speaker 1: they find that board people come up with more better 207 00:10:43,600 --> 00:10:45,800 Speaker 1: creative ideas than people who are not bored. 208 00:10:46,920 --> 00:10:48,280 Speaker 3: So interesting, so interesting. 209 00:10:48,360 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: And something else that you mentioned was that so many 210 00:10:52,000 --> 00:10:56,839 Speaker 2: companies have made it their mission to make getting healthier 211 00:10:57,160 --> 00:10:59,000 Speaker 2: quote unquote easier. 212 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 3: And seem less difficult. 213 00:11:00,880 --> 00:11:06,880 Speaker 2: So the question arises, really, is that then a good 214 00:11:06,920 --> 00:11:09,959 Speaker 2: thing or a bad thing? Because from my point of view, 215 00:11:10,600 --> 00:11:13,440 Speaker 2: at least until this conversation, in this moment, thinking about 216 00:11:13,480 --> 00:11:16,439 Speaker 2: it in this manner, my thought is that it's a 217 00:11:16,480 --> 00:11:20,520 Speaker 2: good thing, right because for so many the change and 218 00:11:21,200 --> 00:11:24,480 Speaker 2: the stepping outside of their comfort zone feels like such 219 00:11:24,480 --> 00:11:28,080 Speaker 2: a barrier to entry that for some they need that 220 00:11:28,200 --> 00:11:29,440 Speaker 2: level of ease. 221 00:11:29,200 --> 00:11:30,920 Speaker 3: To get in the door to start with. 222 00:11:31,240 --> 00:11:33,760 Speaker 2: So what do we say to that person when it 223 00:11:33,800 --> 00:11:38,679 Speaker 2: comes to perhaps picking up a new meditation routine or 224 00:11:38,920 --> 00:11:40,880 Speaker 2: getting into fitness or something like that. 225 00:11:41,480 --> 00:11:44,800 Speaker 1: Yeah, so I'll answer that this way, And like specifically 226 00:11:44,840 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 1: thinking about fitness, if you are a person who frequently 227 00:11:49,200 --> 00:11:52,960 Speaker 1: exercises and enjoys working out, you are one of the 228 00:11:53,000 --> 00:11:55,600 Speaker 1: weird ones. Okay, So when you look at like how 229 00:11:55,679 --> 00:11:59,120 Speaker 1: humans evolved, exercise is something we made up when we 230 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:03,559 Speaker 1: had to remove movement from our days by these technological advances, 231 00:12:04,040 --> 00:12:07,320 Speaker 1: Like it would have never made sense to move without 232 00:12:07,360 --> 00:12:10,920 Speaker 1: a very purposeful objective like I need to go get 233 00:12:10,920 --> 00:12:14,680 Speaker 1: food or something like that. So we're wired for laziness essentially. 234 00:12:14,800 --> 00:12:17,319 Speaker 1: So I tell you that because I don't think. I 235 00:12:17,360 --> 00:12:20,000 Speaker 1: think a lot of times in the fitness world people 236 00:12:20,000 --> 00:12:23,559 Speaker 1: get shamed for not exercising and not wanting to exercise. 237 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:25,920 Speaker 1: It's like, no, it's totally normal to not want to 238 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:29,840 Speaker 1: exercise and to not enjoy it, and that's okay. But 239 00:12:29,880 --> 00:12:33,040 Speaker 1: it's also like there's a lot of things that I 240 00:12:33,280 --> 00:12:35,720 Speaker 1: do in my life that I've been forced into doing 241 00:12:36,280 --> 00:12:38,320 Speaker 1: that I don't like to do either, Like I didn't 242 00:12:38,320 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: want to learn to read when I was a kid. 243 00:12:40,080 --> 00:12:41,960 Speaker 1: Reading is this thing we had to make up to 244 00:12:42,120 --> 00:12:45,280 Speaker 1: like improve our communication as a species as we had 245 00:12:45,320 --> 00:12:48,000 Speaker 1: a lot more people, right, But I had to do that. 246 00:12:48,400 --> 00:12:50,720 Speaker 1: I have to pay my taxes, you know, and obviously 247 00:12:50,720 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 1: you don't have to exercise in the way you have 248 00:12:53,600 --> 00:12:56,160 Speaker 1: to pay your taxes. But we also know that if 249 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,200 Speaker 1: you're not moving, there's going to be health consequences down 250 00:12:59,240 --> 00:13:02,520 Speaker 1: the worlad. I mean, the data is overwhelming in terms 251 00:13:02,679 --> 00:13:07,720 Speaker 1: of what a lack of fitness does for mortality rates. 252 00:13:07,760 --> 00:13:10,880 Speaker 1: Like it's I mean, it takes more years off your 253 00:13:10,920 --> 00:13:13,960 Speaker 1: life if you really don't move at all than smoking 254 00:13:14,000 --> 00:13:17,080 Speaker 1: when you look at the data. So I don't know 255 00:13:17,080 --> 00:13:20,920 Speaker 1: if that answers your question, but it's kind of one 256 00:13:20,920 --> 00:13:22,800 Speaker 1: of those things. And I think that I think starting 257 00:13:22,800 --> 00:13:24,840 Speaker 1: where you're at is so important too, you know, like 258 00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:28,320 Speaker 1: if you don't do anything, it's like, just start with 259 00:13:28,360 --> 00:13:31,440 Speaker 1: a five minute walk that if that's too long and 260 00:13:31,480 --> 00:13:34,640 Speaker 1: that sucks too much, try one minute, Try thirty seconds. 261 00:13:35,080 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: Next time, try thirty five seconds, then forty. I think 262 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,319 Speaker 1: it's really just sort of just building up that ability 263 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:45,200 Speaker 1: to be okay with feeling a little uncomfortable, and that 264 00:13:45,240 --> 00:13:46,200 Speaker 1: improves over time. 265 00:13:46,400 --> 00:13:46,760 Speaker 3: Okay. 266 00:13:47,120 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 2: So the natural question that builds up over time here 267 00:13:49,480 --> 00:13:53,680 Speaker 2: is someone recognizes, Okay, I need to make a change. 268 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:57,920 Speaker 2: I understand that this change is going to be uncomfortable, 269 00:13:58,120 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 2: or what it is that I am seeking to do 270 00:14:00,480 --> 00:14:05,120 Speaker 2: is not within my current wheelhouse. How do they proceed? 271 00:14:05,280 --> 00:14:10,080 Speaker 2: What's the next step after making that perhaps like confession 272 00:14:10,320 --> 00:14:11,320 Speaker 2: to themselves. 273 00:14:11,600 --> 00:14:14,640 Speaker 1: I think a lot of times people get more worked 274 00:14:14,720 --> 00:14:18,920 Speaker 1: up about the idea of being uncomfortable then they are 275 00:14:19,200 --> 00:14:22,720 Speaker 1: about actually being uncomfortable. Like, once you start something, it's 276 00:14:22,760 --> 00:14:26,040 Speaker 1: not that bad, you know. It's like take hunger for example. 277 00:14:27,040 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 1: People don't freak out about being hungry. They freak out 278 00:14:30,040 --> 00:14:33,040 Speaker 1: about the idea of being hungry. Right, It's like because 279 00:14:33,040 --> 00:14:35,880 Speaker 1: if you've actually experienced physiological hunger, it's not like it 280 00:14:35,920 --> 00:14:37,880 Speaker 1: builds and builds and builds and then it's just like 281 00:14:37,960 --> 00:14:40,240 Speaker 1: completely unbearable. It kind of comes and goes in waves 282 00:14:40,720 --> 00:14:44,680 Speaker 1: based on where your attention is. So I think realizing 283 00:14:44,840 --> 00:14:49,680 Speaker 1: that you're probably overthinking this, like yes, there's going to 284 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:53,240 Speaker 1: be some moments of discomfort, but also think like you 285 00:14:53,360 --> 00:14:56,480 Speaker 1: kind of sometimes have to do things that are uncomfortable 286 00:14:56,520 --> 00:14:59,160 Speaker 1: if you want to improve yourself or learn things. I 287 00:14:59,200 --> 00:15:02,720 Speaker 1: mean change is uncomfortable, back to like what humans like 288 00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:05,400 Speaker 1: and don't like. Humans are wired to not like change. 289 00:15:05,440 --> 00:15:08,440 Speaker 1: We want things that are predictable, right, Like, the human 290 00:15:08,480 --> 00:15:11,840 Speaker 1: brain has always defaulted to what is predictable. So getting 291 00:15:11,880 --> 00:15:14,280 Speaker 1: out of your comfort zone can be tough, but the 292 00:15:14,320 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: rewards are huge. I mean even just things like you 293 00:15:18,000 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 1: look at their research on changing up your routine and 294 00:15:22,240 --> 00:15:24,600 Speaker 1: we all tend to live in autopilot mode. Well, once 295 00:15:24,600 --> 00:15:26,840 Speaker 1: we go out of that autopilot mode, it really can 296 00:15:26,880 --> 00:15:30,400 Speaker 1: improve your focus and where your attention is spent. All 297 00:15:30,400 --> 00:15:32,000 Speaker 1: of a sudden, you can't predict the future, so you 298 00:15:32,040 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 1: have to pay attention, you know, and you look at 299 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:37,480 Speaker 1: someone like the work of William James. He talks about 300 00:15:37,520 --> 00:15:39,720 Speaker 1: how at the end of your life, the sum of 301 00:15:39,760 --> 00:15:43,080 Speaker 1: your life is what you paid attention to. Right, So, 302 00:15:43,120 --> 00:15:44,800 Speaker 1: if you can get yourself in moments where you just 303 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,000 Speaker 1: are kind of forced into being mindful, it's like that 304 00:15:47,120 --> 00:15:48,240 Speaker 1: stuff you're going to remember. 305 00:15:56,520 --> 00:15:58,960 Speaker 2: Taking a break from today's episode to give some love 306 00:15:59,120 --> 00:16:03,080 Speaker 2: to my sponsor, First Up Athletic Greens. 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That's v e 347 00:18:20,520 --> 00:18:24,119 Speaker 2: A m TLC dot com and use the code Hurdle 348 00:18:24,400 --> 00:18:27,520 Speaker 2: at checkout for fifteen percent off your purchase today. Again, 349 00:18:27,560 --> 00:18:30,760 Speaker 2: that is BEAMTLC dot com. Use the code Hurdle at 350 00:18:30,840 --> 00:18:41,960 Speaker 2: checkout for fifteen percent off. Wow, I'm like sitting here 351 00:18:42,040 --> 00:18:45,080 Speaker 2: thinking about that idea of the sum of your life 352 00:18:45,119 --> 00:18:47,080 Speaker 2: is the things that you pay attention to. It's I 353 00:18:47,119 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 2: remember once I was speaking to someone and they pointed 354 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:53,440 Speaker 2: out that the differences between like optimistic people and pessimistic people. 355 00:18:53,480 --> 00:18:56,320 Speaker 2: And the optimistic people are the ones that are sitting 356 00:18:56,400 --> 00:18:59,120 Speaker 2: on the sidewalk having lunch with a friend and they 357 00:18:59,240 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 2: see an elderly couple walking across the street and they're like, 358 00:19:02,560 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 2: super cute and they're just enjoying the simple things of life. 359 00:19:05,520 --> 00:19:07,840 Speaker 2: And the pessimistic person that you could be having lunch 360 00:19:07,880 --> 00:19:10,800 Speaker 2: with sees the smelly garbage truck, like pull up and 361 00:19:10,840 --> 00:19:13,760 Speaker 2: put the trash in the back. And how different are 362 00:19:13,800 --> 00:19:16,360 Speaker 2: those two perspectives on life? Because one person goes about 363 00:19:16,359 --> 00:19:18,359 Speaker 2: their day and finds like the small joys and the 364 00:19:18,359 --> 00:19:20,840 Speaker 2: simple pleasures, and the other person is like, I don't 365 00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:23,560 Speaker 2: know at sometimes maybe like the classic cynical New Yorker 366 00:19:23,640 --> 00:19:25,560 Speaker 2: and this is just the ways that you go about 367 00:19:25,560 --> 00:19:26,080 Speaker 2: your living. 368 00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:29,560 Speaker 1: Totally. So I'll tell you a story, and let me 369 00:19:29,600 --> 00:19:32,600 Speaker 1: preface the story by saying that I am not suggesting 370 00:19:32,600 --> 00:19:34,040 Speaker 1: in the least bit that you have to go to 371 00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:36,480 Speaker 1: Alaska for more than a month to get this effect, 372 00:19:36,560 --> 00:19:39,119 Speaker 1: but I will tell you this. So we get up there, 373 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,640 Speaker 1: it's freezing cold, right. We have one day where we're 374 00:19:43,680 --> 00:19:47,480 Speaker 1: like twelve miles from camp and the sun is going down, 375 00:19:47,480 --> 00:19:49,399 Speaker 1: so we have to get back. And the way you 376 00:19:49,400 --> 00:19:51,600 Speaker 1: get back is across the tundra, which is I won't 377 00:19:51,600 --> 00:19:53,480 Speaker 1: go into detail, but it is the worst thing to 378 00:19:53,560 --> 00:19:55,320 Speaker 1: walk on in the world because it's kind of like 379 00:19:55,359 --> 00:19:58,399 Speaker 1: half frozen. There's these big balls of grass that are 380 00:19:58,440 --> 00:20:01,720 Speaker 1: really hard to walk on. And this was like pretty 381 00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:04,199 Speaker 1: deep into the trip, and we get back to the 382 00:20:04,440 --> 00:20:07,480 Speaker 1: tent and it is, you know, it's like negative twenty outside, 383 00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,000 Speaker 1: and I'm freaking starving and I have a cliff bar 384 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,280 Speaker 1: and that's all I have for dinner, right, And so 385 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,880 Speaker 1: now it's like when I get back into my normal life, 386 00:20:19,640 --> 00:20:22,600 Speaker 1: I can like stand, let's say, in a restaurant or 387 00:20:22,640 --> 00:20:27,040 Speaker 1: something like that, and the service might be crappy and 388 00:20:27,119 --> 00:20:28,800 Speaker 1: things may not be going my way, but I can 389 00:20:28,840 --> 00:20:31,119 Speaker 1: be like, oh, I'm warm. Yeah, I didn't have to 390 00:20:31,200 --> 00:20:33,960 Speaker 1: walk twelve miles to get here. I'm about to eat 391 00:20:34,119 --> 00:20:36,320 Speaker 1: something that's a lot more delicious than a cliff bar 392 00:20:36,640 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: and it's gonna be amazing. Things are totally fine. So 393 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,960 Speaker 1: I think the lesson is that, like sometimes we need 394 00:20:42,000 --> 00:20:46,679 Speaker 1: to it's easy to get locked into a perspective where 395 00:20:47,400 --> 00:20:49,439 Speaker 1: we don't really see how good we have it. A 396 00:20:49,480 --> 00:20:51,359 Speaker 1: lot of us, right, And I'm not suggesting at all 397 00:20:51,440 --> 00:20:53,439 Speaker 1: that like the world doesn't still have problems that we 398 00:20:53,480 --> 00:20:55,719 Speaker 1: need to work on, but I think a lot of 399 00:20:55,840 --> 00:20:59,359 Speaker 1: people's every day problems are sort of first world problems 400 00:20:59,480 --> 00:21:01,479 Speaker 1: and we don't see that, right. So if you have 401 00:21:01,560 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: moments that push back at those can give you a 402 00:21:03,800 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: lot of perspective and that will make you more appreciative 403 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:08,160 Speaker 1: of everything you have. 404 00:21:08,440 --> 00:21:12,240 Speaker 2: Well, this is the same thought process behind the marathon, right. 405 00:21:12,400 --> 00:21:16,320 Speaker 2: It's the commonplace of once you run a marathon, your 406 00:21:16,320 --> 00:21:20,160 Speaker 2: perspective on so many of the other hurdles that you 407 00:21:20,359 --> 00:21:24,560 Speaker 2: will have to overcome in your life completely shifts, and 408 00:21:24,600 --> 00:21:30,399 Speaker 2: you understand, having perhaps succeeded and pushed yourself through something 409 00:21:30,440 --> 00:21:33,800 Speaker 2: that at times for sure felt one hundred percent impossible, 410 00:21:34,200 --> 00:21:37,639 Speaker 2: that you are then capable of anything. So for you, 411 00:21:37,720 --> 00:21:40,520 Speaker 2: in reporting this book and all of the experts that 412 00:21:40,520 --> 00:21:42,720 Speaker 2: you spoke with and the research that you learned. Does 413 00:21:42,720 --> 00:21:46,280 Speaker 2: anyone have like a term for this? Is there something 414 00:21:46,320 --> 00:21:51,040 Speaker 2: in the brain that becomes unlocked when we see ourselves 415 00:21:51,160 --> 00:21:53,280 Speaker 2: getting through these difficult hurdles. 416 00:21:53,480 --> 00:21:56,000 Speaker 1: It's a good question. So part of the book I 417 00:21:56,040 --> 00:22:00,960 Speaker 1: talked about this idea called masogi and guy his name 418 00:22:01,000 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: is Marcus Elliott. He super far out. He's like gone 419 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:06,600 Speaker 1: to burning Man since way back when it was like 420 00:22:06,680 --> 00:22:07,960 Speaker 1: super weird back in the day. 421 00:22:08,040 --> 00:22:10,840 Speaker 2: How you know you're super far out is that you 422 00:22:10,840 --> 00:22:12,360 Speaker 2: you're burning me on veteran. 423 00:22:12,160 --> 00:22:15,359 Speaker 1: One hundred percent. But he's also he went to Harvard 424 00:22:15,359 --> 00:22:17,760 Speaker 1: Medical School, so he's also very very smart, and he 425 00:22:17,800 --> 00:22:20,679 Speaker 1: started this company called P three and they have contracts 426 00:22:20,680 --> 00:22:22,480 Speaker 1: like with the NBA in the NFL, and they do 427 00:22:22,520 --> 00:22:25,400 Speaker 1: all this like data movement modeling. It's all like very 428 00:22:25,440 --> 00:22:28,800 Speaker 1: science and techie like he's totally revolutionized sports science. But 429 00:22:28,880 --> 00:22:32,880 Speaker 1: he also knows that like what improves humans, our performance, 430 00:22:33,440 --> 00:22:36,320 Speaker 1: how we see the world can always be measured. So 431 00:22:36,359 --> 00:22:38,280 Speaker 1: they do this thing called masogi and it's like once 432 00:22:38,320 --> 00:22:42,640 Speaker 1: a year they will pick one really freaking hard thing 433 00:22:43,520 --> 00:22:46,320 Speaker 1: that's usually outdoors, and they'll go do it to see 434 00:22:46,359 --> 00:22:48,719 Speaker 1: if they can do it. And there's only two rules 435 00:22:49,440 --> 00:22:51,800 Speaker 1: rule number one, it's got to be really hard, which 436 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:54,320 Speaker 1: they define by saying you have a fifty percent chance 437 00:22:54,320 --> 00:22:57,679 Speaker 1: of finishing it. Rule number two is that you can't die. 438 00:22:58,240 --> 00:23:00,800 Speaker 1: So pretty straightforward rule number two. And they've done things 439 00:23:00,880 --> 00:23:03,840 Speaker 1: like get an eighty five pound boulder and walk it 440 00:23:04,119 --> 00:23:07,280 Speaker 1: five miles beneath the Santa Barbara Channel, so they'll like 441 00:23:07,320 --> 00:23:10,760 Speaker 1: dive down ten yards. The next guy goes down all 442 00:23:10,840 --> 00:23:14,000 Speaker 1: kinds of just kooky challenges. And the idea is what 443 00:23:14,040 --> 00:23:18,160 Speaker 1: they're mimicking is when you look at like all cultures, 444 00:23:18,359 --> 00:23:21,040 Speaker 1: like older cultures, people usually had to go through a 445 00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,760 Speaker 1: rite of passage. Now, the idea of a right of 446 00:23:23,800 --> 00:23:28,280 Speaker 1: passage is that you as a human are at point A, 447 00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:30,679 Speaker 1: but we need you in our tribe or whatever it is, 448 00:23:30,720 --> 00:23:32,879 Speaker 1: to be at point B. How to get you to 449 00:23:32,920 --> 00:23:34,679 Speaker 1: point B, We're gonna like send you out in the 450 00:23:34,680 --> 00:23:36,720 Speaker 1: wild to do something hard. So you look at all 451 00:23:36,720 --> 00:23:39,600 Speaker 1: these different cultures. There's things like the Massai would do 452 00:23:39,680 --> 00:23:42,679 Speaker 1: lion hunts, you have original tribe would do, walk about 453 00:23:43,359 --> 00:23:46,320 Speaker 1: all kinds of different stuff. And while you're out there 454 00:23:46,320 --> 00:23:49,919 Speaker 1: in this sort of middle ground of challenge, you're like, 455 00:23:50,000 --> 00:23:51,439 Speaker 1: I don't know if I can do this you have 456 00:23:51,520 --> 00:23:54,880 Speaker 1: these moments where you're like, I'm gonna quit. I'm gonna quit. 457 00:23:55,359 --> 00:23:57,480 Speaker 1: You know, I can see my edges coming up, and 458 00:23:57,520 --> 00:23:59,719 Speaker 1: I'm gonna quit when I hit that edge. But then 459 00:23:59,760 --> 00:24:02,399 Speaker 1: you up over it and you keep stepping, and then 460 00:24:02,440 --> 00:24:05,000 Speaker 1: you look back and go, well, I thought my edge 461 00:24:05,040 --> 00:24:07,879 Speaker 1: was right there, but I'm beyond it. So like I 462 00:24:07,920 --> 00:24:11,200 Speaker 1: sold myself short. There where else in my life am 463 00:24:11,200 --> 00:24:14,240 Speaker 1: I selling myself short? You know? I think that humans 464 00:24:14,240 --> 00:24:19,440 Speaker 1: have way more potential than we realized. So by doing 465 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: something like that, doing something hard, whether that's this Kooki 466 00:24:23,160 --> 00:24:26,159 Speaker 1: masogi thing this guy does or a marathon when you 467 00:24:26,200 --> 00:24:29,280 Speaker 1: think you really can't do it, we learn a lot 468 00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: about ourselves. And there's some like evolutionary machinery that really 469 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:36,200 Speaker 1: gets triggered. And I think that, you know, our natural 470 00:24:36,320 --> 00:24:39,280 Speaker 1: environment used to show us these sorts of challenges all 471 00:24:39,320 --> 00:24:41,800 Speaker 1: the time because life was tough. We had to do 472 00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:46,600 Speaker 1: things like hunt and gather and you know, move great distances. 473 00:24:46,880 --> 00:24:48,800 Speaker 1: But nowadays we don't really have that, So I think 474 00:24:48,800 --> 00:24:50,840 Speaker 1: we do need these sort of moments that push back 475 00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:52,520 Speaker 1: at us and teach us something about ourselves. 476 00:24:52,680 --> 00:24:59,600 Speaker 2: For the person who finds themselves constantly underestimating themselves or perhaps, 477 00:24:59,680 --> 00:25:03,919 Speaker 2: as you said, selling themselves short. What advice do you 478 00:25:04,000 --> 00:25:07,840 Speaker 2: have for them to help them push through that hurdle. 479 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,200 Speaker 1: First of all, you're totally normal, So if you think 480 00:25:10,240 --> 00:25:13,760 Speaker 1: about as humans evolved, it would make sense there would 481 00:25:13,760 --> 00:25:16,040 Speaker 1: be a survival benefit to be the type of person 482 00:25:16,640 --> 00:25:19,040 Speaker 1: who goes, I don't think I can do that. So 483 00:25:19,119 --> 00:25:21,040 Speaker 1: if something you know were to come your way, you're like, 484 00:25:21,119 --> 00:25:23,480 Speaker 1: I'm not touching that. It's a little too risky. But 485 00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,359 Speaker 1: if you were thrown into that situation to actually have 486 00:25:26,400 --> 00:25:29,920 Speaker 1: an outsized ability to complete it, right, So we there 487 00:25:29,960 --> 00:25:32,200 Speaker 1: was an advantage to not thinking you're capable of something, 488 00:25:32,240 --> 00:25:35,400 Speaker 1: but actually being capable. If humans would have been the opposite, 489 00:25:35,480 --> 00:25:37,920 Speaker 1: if we were like, hell, yeah, I can do that, 490 00:25:38,040 --> 00:25:39,600 Speaker 1: and then we get out there and it's just like 491 00:25:39,680 --> 00:25:41,919 Speaker 1: we suck, Like we would have died off, right, So 492 00:25:42,000 --> 00:25:46,120 Speaker 1: I tell you that to basically say you are capable 493 00:25:46,280 --> 00:25:49,119 Speaker 1: of a lot more like we are not far removed 494 00:25:49,440 --> 00:25:52,320 Speaker 1: from the people of our past. And you know, our 495 00:25:52,359 --> 00:25:55,600 Speaker 1: ancestors used to exercise fourteen times more than us. Wasn't 496 00:25:56,119 --> 00:25:58,840 Speaker 1: abnormal for them to have to run twenty miles in 497 00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,960 Speaker 1: any given day like we have this on board. We 498 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:05,399 Speaker 1: just don't want to use it, and there is a 499 00:26:05,440 --> 00:26:06,679 Speaker 1: good reason for that. 500 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:09,520 Speaker 2: And then in all of your reporting, was there anything 501 00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:12,400 Speaker 2: else that really took you by surprise? 502 00:26:12,760 --> 00:26:15,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, for sure. So I went to So I'm up 503 00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,440 Speaker 1: there hunting, okay, backcountry hunting, and I had never hunted before, 504 00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:20,840 Speaker 1: and I was super reticent about hunting because I'm like, 505 00:26:22,119 --> 00:26:24,200 Speaker 1: it was it's weird because like I eat meat all 506 00:26:24,240 --> 00:26:26,479 Speaker 1: the time, and yet I'm like, I don't know if 507 00:26:26,480 --> 00:26:29,040 Speaker 1: I actually want to engage in that, so I won't 508 00:26:29,040 --> 00:26:31,159 Speaker 1: go into the details. But I end up hunting, like 509 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,560 Speaker 1: I still have meat in my freezer. But it got 510 00:26:33,640 --> 00:26:37,560 Speaker 1: me thinking about the life cycle. And in the West, 511 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:40,240 Speaker 1: I think we don't want to think about or acknowledge 512 00:26:40,240 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: the fact that one day we are going to die. 513 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,680 Speaker 1: And you can see this in our funeral system, where 514 00:26:44,800 --> 00:26:48,560 Speaker 1: like when someone dies, we sort of make them look 515 00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:51,199 Speaker 1: as youthful as possible, and then we sort of, you know, 516 00:26:51,240 --> 00:26:52,960 Speaker 1: have this viewing and then they're in the ground and 517 00:26:52,960 --> 00:26:54,560 Speaker 1: then we're told, you know, keep your mind off it. 518 00:26:54,600 --> 00:26:56,640 Speaker 1: Go do something to take your mind off it. Even 519 00:26:56,680 --> 00:27:00,000 Speaker 1: our food system, right, It's like our meat is manicure 520 00:27:00,080 --> 00:27:02,040 Speaker 1: in such a way that we're not reminded that came 521 00:27:02,040 --> 00:27:04,840 Speaker 1: from a living thing. So I end up traveling to 522 00:27:04,960 --> 00:27:08,640 Speaker 1: Bhutan because they have a very different relationship with death 523 00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:11,200 Speaker 1: than we do in the US. People in Bhutan are 524 00:27:11,240 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 1: instructed to think about death at least once a day. 525 00:27:14,320 --> 00:27:17,520 Speaker 1: A lot of their art and cultural stuff revolves around death. 526 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:22,160 Speaker 1: And I talked to this this guy who's super high 527 00:27:22,200 --> 00:27:24,119 Speaker 1: up in Buddhism there, and it was it was a 528 00:27:24,160 --> 00:27:27,280 Speaker 1: total trip because he lives in this like cliff side 529 00:27:27,280 --> 00:27:30,359 Speaker 1: shack up this total rutted out dirt road. And my 530 00:27:30,480 --> 00:27:32,920 Speaker 1: driver you have to have a driver there. We're in 531 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:37,080 Speaker 1: a smart car essentially, So my driver like Baja five 532 00:27:37,200 --> 00:27:40,120 Speaker 1: hundreds this thing up this dirt road and I get 533 00:27:40,119 --> 00:27:41,840 Speaker 1: to this shack and it's like I kind of have 534 00:27:41,880 --> 00:27:44,359 Speaker 1: to go door to door and it's very basic. And 535 00:27:44,400 --> 00:27:47,440 Speaker 1: I open this drape and like there's this big statue 536 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,760 Speaker 1: of the Buddha and there's like this incense smoke in 537 00:27:49,800 --> 00:27:52,240 Speaker 1: the air, and like this guy just like turns to 538 00:27:52,280 --> 00:27:55,240 Speaker 1: me and he's like hello, you know, just like oh 539 00:27:55,240 --> 00:27:58,720 Speaker 1: my god, this is like the gangly westerner has come 540 00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:02,439 Speaker 1: to see the Guru. But we talked for a handful 541 00:28:02,480 --> 00:28:05,720 Speaker 1: of hours and He talked about how in the West 542 00:28:05,760 --> 00:28:08,159 Speaker 1: we just don't want to acknowledge the fact that, you know, 543 00:28:08,240 --> 00:28:10,639 Speaker 1: one day we're going to die, but once we actually do, 544 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 1: that changes our behavior because all of a sudden you realize, 545 00:28:14,320 --> 00:28:17,359 Speaker 1: like this ride is going to end, and people naturally 546 00:28:17,400 --> 00:28:21,359 Speaker 1: become a lot more appreciative and it helps you sort 547 00:28:21,359 --> 00:28:24,760 Speaker 1: of figure out, like what am I doing with my time? 548 00:28:25,200 --> 00:28:28,560 Speaker 1: Helps you become more compassionate as well, because if I 549 00:28:28,640 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: know that, like you know, one day this ride is 550 00:28:31,680 --> 00:28:33,439 Speaker 1: going to end, and someone annoys me with like a 551 00:28:33,480 --> 00:28:35,320 Speaker 1: snarky email, like I'm just not going to get worked up, 552 00:28:35,320 --> 00:28:37,920 Speaker 1: I'm just gonna be like, okay, whatever you know helps 553 00:28:37,920 --> 00:28:40,920 Speaker 1: me make better decisions. Now, this is very uncomfortable thought, 554 00:28:41,640 --> 00:28:45,440 Speaker 1: of course, it's like, oh man, that is heavy. But 555 00:28:45,560 --> 00:28:48,560 Speaker 1: on the other side of that, I think your life 556 00:28:48,600 --> 00:28:51,360 Speaker 1: improves and there's you can find some happiness there. And 557 00:28:51,400 --> 00:28:54,120 Speaker 1: it's interesting because Bhutan is even though they're like totally 558 00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,360 Speaker 1: low on the development rankings, they always rank as one 559 00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:58,640 Speaker 1: of the world's happiest countries. 560 00:28:59,000 --> 00:29:00,840 Speaker 2: Wow, I mean I I well, I needed to take 561 00:29:00,840 --> 00:29:03,400 Speaker 2: that perspective last weekend when I was like attempting to 562 00:29:03,440 --> 00:29:05,760 Speaker 2: put up vinyl stick on wallpaper. 563 00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:07,760 Speaker 3: Wow, you would have thought. 564 00:29:07,520 --> 00:29:09,440 Speaker 2: You would have thought the world was ending when this 565 00:29:09,600 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 2: was going nowhere near as easy as they make it 566 00:29:11,960 --> 00:29:14,520 Speaker 2: look like in all the videos. I was like on 567 00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:17,520 Speaker 2: the floor. I facetied my dad. I've got like mess 568 00:29:17,560 --> 00:29:19,560 Speaker 2: garrow on my face. He's like, what's on your face? 569 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,840 Speaker 2: I'm like, I've been crying. I can't get this wallpaper up. 570 00:29:22,920 --> 00:29:26,520 Speaker 3: And then I'm like, wow, it's just some stick on wallpaper. 571 00:29:27,080 --> 00:29:30,880 Speaker 3: That We're fine. We're fine. Such an interesting perspective and 572 00:29:30,920 --> 00:29:31,280 Speaker 3: such a. 573 00:29:31,240 --> 00:29:34,480 Speaker 2: Really important lesson to take away, just understanding that these 574 00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:37,280 Speaker 2: moments of discomfort, they come and they go, and that 575 00:29:37,360 --> 00:29:41,160 Speaker 2: we have the opportunity to either embrace that and kind 576 00:29:41,200 --> 00:29:44,239 Speaker 2: of harness that and work through that, or we can 577 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:45,640 Speaker 2: be the only thing that holds ourself. 578 00:29:45,440 --> 00:29:46,360 Speaker 3: Back right totally. 579 00:29:46,440 --> 00:29:48,120 Speaker 1: Yeah, And on the other side of that discomfort is 580 00:29:48,200 --> 00:29:52,400 Speaker 1: usually some sort of improvement in body, mind, spirit. 581 00:29:52,320 --> 00:29:53,240 Speaker 3: All that good stuff. 582 00:29:53,480 --> 00:29:56,160 Speaker 2: Michael, How do the hurdlers keep up with you? How 583 00:29:56,160 --> 00:29:58,760 Speaker 2: do they follow along with you? Give me all of 584 00:29:58,800 --> 00:29:59,440 Speaker 2: the information. 585 00:30:00,000 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: The book that we're talking about is called The Comfort Crisis. 586 00:30:02,680 --> 00:30:06,240 Speaker 1: It's available wherever books are sold. I have a website 587 00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:10,360 Speaker 1: Eastermichael dot com. And then I'm on Instagram at Michael Underscore. 588 00:30:09,960 --> 00:30:14,080 Speaker 2: Easter, I'm over at Emily Body at Hurdle Podcast, another 589 00:30:14,160 --> 00:30:15,360 Speaker 2: hurdle conquered. 590 00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:16,800 Speaker 3: Catch you guys next time.