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Speaker 1: In the last hours of Bombshell in the search for

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Speaker 1: a gorgeous twenty year old fort Hood soldier Vanessa. Again,

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Speaker 1: we now know that in the last hours, remains have

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Speaker 1: been found another body apparently found in the area near

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Speaker 1: fort Hood where another young soldier has been found dead

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Speaker 1: and buried. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. What does it

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Speaker 1: mean in the search for Vanessa. I'm Nancy Grace. This

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Speaker 1: is Crime Stories. Thank you for being with us here

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Speaker 1: on Fox Nation and series x M one eleven. First

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Speaker 1: of all, take a listen to our friends at ABC thirteen.

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Speaker 1: Houston Colleen Police are investigating if Moore remains were found

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Speaker 1: near the site where the remains of a missing Forthood

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Speaker 1: soldier were found earlier this month. Now, these remains were

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Speaker 1: reportedly found within walking distance of where investigators found the

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Speaker 1: body of Private Gregory Wendell Morales on June nineteenth. Now,

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Speaker 1: he had been missing from Forthood since August. His cause

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Speaker 1: of death is under investigation, but they have said they

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Speaker 1: suspect foul play. The remains found yesterday have been sent

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Speaker 1: to the Southwestern Institute of Forensic Sciences in Dallas. The

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Speaker 1: discovery was made as Texas equist was looking for another

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Speaker 1: missing Forthood soldier Private first class Faness again, Gian was

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Speaker 1: last seen April twenty second on base. However, officials have

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Speaker 1: not yet said if these cases are connected. Well, of

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Speaker 1: course there's foul play. We're not idiots. How could the

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Speaker 1: soldier Gregory with deel moralice what diav natural causes and

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Speaker 1: then bury himself out in the middle of nowhere a

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Speaker 1: stone's throw from Fort Hood, one of the biggest army

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Speaker 1: bases in our country. Of course it's foul play. If

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Speaker 1: it had been natural causes or an accident, nine one

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Speaker 1: one would have been called. Of course there's foul play. Now,

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Speaker 1: how am I supposed to reconcile the fact that this guy,

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Speaker 1: Gregory Wodell Morales is killed and buried about a mile

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Speaker 1: less than a mile from Fort Hood, and now Vanessa again,

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Speaker 1: gorgeous twenty one year old private first class also goes missing.

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Speaker 1: Well with me to figure out this major boo Shellen,

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Speaker 1: what does it mean to search for Vanessa's an all

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Speaker 1: star panel? First of all? James shell Nutt twenty seven

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Speaker 1: years metro major case including swat now lawyer at shell

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Speaker 1: Nutt Law Firm dot com. Renowned New York psychologist Karen

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Speaker 1: Start and joining me at Karen Stark dot com. Karen

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Speaker 1: Smith joining me out of LA Forensics X lecturer University

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Speaker 1: of Florida and host I've Shattered Soul's new podcast. Doctor

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Speaker 1: Chris Sperry, who I personally have put on the stand

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Speaker 1: many many times on direct examination, former chief medical Examiner

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Speaker 1: for the entire state of Georgia and Texas Equisearch founder

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Speaker 1: and leader Tim Miller, who's joining us straight off the

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Speaker 1: search for another missing person. He has been leading many

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Speaker 1: of the searches for Vanessa. But right now to Levi

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Speaker 1: page Crime online dot com investigative reporter at LEVI, one

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Speaker 1: more very important guest joining us today and I can't

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Speaker 1: wait to hear from her. The attorney for Vanessa Gain's family,

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Speaker 1: Natalie Kawan, is with us, Tim Miller. It's my understanding

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Speaker 1: that near the body of Gregory when Dell Morales, more

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Speaker 1: remains have been found. Have you heard that yet, Tim,

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Speaker 1: I have heard that. Any kind of got excited thinking

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Speaker 1: that it was the Messa, but we don't know anything yet.

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Speaker 1: The remains have been sent away, I understand. To Dallas.

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Speaker 1: To doctor Chris Sperry, former Chief Medical Examiner, State of Georgia,

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Speaker 1: Doctor Chris Sperry, what's the first thing the medical examiner

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Speaker 1: is going to do it? I agree with Tim Miller.

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Speaker 1: I don't want to get too excited. You know, was

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Speaker 1: there ever a time, Chris Sperry, that we didn't get

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Speaker 1: excited when we found out that potential human remains were found.

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Speaker 1: That's kind of bizarre. But that said, as it goes

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Speaker 1: for the search for Vanessa, what's the first thing they're

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Speaker 1: going to do with the Dallas medical examiners when they

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Speaker 1: look at these remains. Well, the very first thing the

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Speaker 1: medical examiner is going to do was to x ray

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Speaker 1: the remains. And the reason for that is to make

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Speaker 1: sure if there is a bullet or the tip of

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Speaker 1: a knife or something metallic that would be related to

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Speaker 1: the cause of death that can be found and identified

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Speaker 1: right off the bat, because there's often all sorts of

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Speaker 1: dirt that has caked on the on the remains, and

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Speaker 1: you know, brush and things like that that come in.

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Speaker 1: So that's the very first thing is to x ray everything.

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Speaker 1: You know, that just shows why you're the medical examiner

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Speaker 1: and I'm just a lowly trial lawyer, because I would

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Speaker 1: have thought the first thing you would do is decide

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Speaker 1: if it's human or animal. Well, that depends on how

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Speaker 1: much there is. If if it's just a single bone

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Speaker 1: that's relatively clean, we'll make that determination very quickly. And

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Speaker 1: you're absolutely right if it's Wait wait, wait, wait, Jackie,

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Speaker 1: I want a clip of this, because never, in all

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Speaker 1: the years that I have known doctor Chris Sperry, have

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Speaker 1: I heard him say the words those three beautiful words. No,

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Speaker 1: not I love you, although that's that's good too, But

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Speaker 1: you are right? Did you hear that he said? I've

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Speaker 1: never in all the years I've known you, Chris Berry,

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Speaker 1: and all the times I put you on the stand,

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Speaker 1: sworn you in on the Bible, I've never heard you

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Speaker 1: should say you are right? And I am so happy.

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Speaker 1: But you probably never heard me say that you're wrong either,

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Speaker 1: have you? Let me think? I find that hard to believe.

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Speaker 1: I gotta I gotta go back in time. But how

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Speaker 1: do you look at a bone? Let's just say, let's

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Speaker 1: just pretend it's it's I've got my left hand up

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Speaker 1: and I'm holding up my little finger. What if all

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Speaker 1: you have is that last digit behind your fingernail, How

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Speaker 1: do you know if you've got a human or a

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Speaker 1: dog or any animal. No, Okay, I understand if if

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Speaker 1: the see was talking about remains, I tend to think

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Speaker 1: about the lots of bones or a collection of things.

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Speaker 1: But if all that you have is say one little

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Speaker 1: small bone, well then you know, making the differentiation between

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Speaker 1: animal and human, of course, is very very important from

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Speaker 1: from the start. And for single bones or just a

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Speaker 1: few bones that are relatively clean, then uh you know, yes,

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Speaker 1: that's that's done. I've done that hundreds of time. But

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Speaker 1: how do you do it? How do you look at

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Speaker 1: this tiny bit of bone? Insay, that's human? Well, it's

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Speaker 1: it's based on the shape and the length, the dimensions.

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Speaker 1: Human bones specifically look like human bones. You know that

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Speaker 1: because as doctors, you really are not telling me anything

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Speaker 1: new right now? Yeah, no, doctors, we all learn, you know,

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Speaker 1: what the human skeleton looks like. Uh now, it can

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Speaker 1: be very difficult sometimes if it's pieces of bones or

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Speaker 1: very very small. It's like it's like the single bone

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Speaker 1: that's the end of your you know, left little finger.

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Speaker 1: At that point, we might have an anthropologist come and

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Speaker 1: look at the bone as well, you know, to see

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Speaker 1: to see what they think. Let me ask you this

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Speaker 1: is there's some kind of a dnahs you can run

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Speaker 1: on it to determine if it's human or animal. Well sure,

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Speaker 1: if if if we can't decide just from looking at

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Speaker 1: it and X raying it, then that's that's an next

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Speaker 1: step would be to do DNA on it to see

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Speaker 1: if it's human or not human. And that's a very

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Speaker 1: simple kind of DNA test that can be accomplished overnight.

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Speaker 1: You know, doctor Chris Sperry, just let us in on

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Speaker 1: the truth. I know the truth, but I want you

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Speaker 1: to tell us you're again the MDA, the medical examiner.

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Speaker 1: When we always here I were waiting for DNA tests.

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Speaker 1: The reality is DNA test do not take as long

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Speaker 1: as the labs would have you believe. Now, I know

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Speaker 1: this for a fact, But can you tell me the

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Speaker 1: truth of it. Well, yeah, I'll say it the second time.

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Speaker 1: You're exactly right now. DNA testing can be done, I

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Speaker 1: mean literally overnight in any forensic laboratory that regularly does

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Speaker 1: DNA testing in this country can do really full of

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Speaker 1: DNA screening overnight twenty four hours easily. And those are

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Speaker 1: that kind of speed is really reserved for high profile

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Speaker 1: cases or where a question is really extremely important. You know,

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Speaker 1: is this animal or human or is this human not

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Speaker 1: only human, but couldn't come from someone that has been

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Speaker 1: missing for some period of time. So that rapid turnaround

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Speaker 1: is reserved for cases of significant importance or where further

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Speaker 1: investigation is really dependent upon the results, because if it's

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Speaker 1: not human, well then you're not going to send a

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Speaker 1: hundred people out coming through the brush looking for both

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Speaker 1: climb stories with Nancy Grace Guys, I was speaking with

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Speaker 1: a medical examiner, doctor Chris Sperry. We are talking about

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Speaker 1: a bombshell in the search for a twenty year old

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Speaker 1: beauty private first class, Vanessa Gim. You were just hearing

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Speaker 1: doctor Chris Sperry as he was describing how you tell

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Speaker 1: whether the remains just found in connection to the Vanessa

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Speaker 1: Gim search are human or animal. He said that a

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Speaker 1: very quick DNA GaX Ryboni clake acid turnaround could be

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Speaker 1: done overnight only if it's an important case. Well, you

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Speaker 1: know what, what victim's family doesn't think it's an important case.

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Speaker 1: My big question we're talking about Vanessa Gim. Take a

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Speaker 1: listen now to k WTX describing her disappearance. Twenty year

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Speaker 1: old private first class of Vanessa Gilliam's keys ID card

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Speaker 1: and wallet were later found in the armory room where

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Speaker 1: she had been working earlier that day. If you have

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Speaker 1: any information on Smile Don't Matter, please call the police.

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Speaker 1: We're being bringing picture of her. We're being close to

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Speaker 1: most small businesses. Guys they showed good joined on bass.

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Speaker 1: She was last seen wearing a black T shirt. She's

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Speaker 1: five feet two inches tall, one hundred and twenty six pounds,

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Speaker 1: with black hair and brown eyes. The search for Vanessa

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Speaker 1: Gain goes on this as the specter of sex harassment

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Speaker 1: on Vanessa raises its ugly head, and apparently other women

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Speaker 1: there in Fort Hoo would have complained. Now the Army

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Speaker 1: is officially saying they don't have any credible evidence she

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Speaker 1: was sex harassed. Well, she told her mother all about it.

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Speaker 1: I'm sure took others into her confidence. Is that not

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Speaker 1: enough guys joining me an all star panel? But right

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Speaker 1: now I want to go to special guests. The lawyer

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Speaker 1: for Vanessa Gean's family, Natalie Kawan, Natalie wasn't for all

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Speaker 1: we've heard. I just heard that reporter say Gillen. I

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Speaker 1: don't think that's correct. I don't want to disrespect their

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Speaker 1: family by mispronouncing their name. How is it pronounced Gian.

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Speaker 1: Thank you, Natalie. What is Vanessa's family's reaction to the

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Speaker 1: Bobshell that more remains have been found next to the

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Speaker 1: other private who went missing? Nobody ever found him either.

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Speaker 1: His remains were found a stone's throw from Fort Hood

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Speaker 1: and now more remains have been located near his body.

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Speaker 1: What's their reaction. Well, I think that they are hoping

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Speaker 1: that the charter comes up alive. Yeah, that's the mother,

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Speaker 1: especially the other beliefs that, you know, keep searching, we're

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Speaker 1: going to find her. So she's very optimistic and hopeful

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Speaker 1: that we'll find Vanessa. So you know, that's what we're

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Speaker 1: dealing with right now. Natalie Kawan with me, the lawyer

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Speaker 1: for Vanessa Gain's family. When the Army says officially that

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Speaker 1: they have no credible evidence to support Vanessa's claim she

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Speaker 1: was sex harassed, she told her mother about it. It's

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Speaker 1: my understanding, and the mom said, well, I'm going to

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Speaker 1: take care of it, and that's when Vanessa said, no,

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Speaker 1: I will take care of it. But she never did

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Speaker 1: formally file a complaint, and then suddenly before she could,

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Speaker 1: she goes missing. What does the family think of that? Well,

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Speaker 1: you know, this is something that's not an unusual situation.

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Speaker 1: A lot of women are afraid to disclose or report

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Speaker 1: sexual harassment, especially in the military. If you go to

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Speaker 1: the social media site I Am Vanessa Kean, it's sad,

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Speaker 1: it's scary. Hundreds and hundreds of soldiers are coming forth

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Speaker 1: with their story, a lot of them saying that they're

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Speaker 1: shamed to talk about it, but they're doing it for Vanessa,

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Speaker 1: and it tells you about the culture. These are people

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Speaker 1: that they work with on a donasis. There are people

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Speaker 1: that they eat fleap go, rabbit hole, fox holes forever

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Speaker 1: with a daily basis, so there are free to report

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Speaker 1: on their own brother or sister in arms about the

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Speaker 1: wrongful invested day, our experience in Europe, being or being

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Speaker 1: victims of And in this situation, she had two incidences

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Speaker 1: where she reported to her not just her mother and

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Speaker 1: her sisters, but also to her friends and her colleagues

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Speaker 1: at work, her soldier fellow soldiers, but she didn't want

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Speaker 1: to do a formal report, which is completely understandable. Nobody

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Speaker 1: wants to be retaliated or blackballed. This is some she

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Speaker 1: wanted to join the army and serve the country. She

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Speaker 1: didn't want to follow report of sexual harassment and then

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Speaker 1: get black balled. And I honestly, after I read all

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Speaker 1: these social media, you know, these instagrams and these people

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Speaker 1: talking about I am Vanessa, I am reading it, I'm thinking,

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Speaker 1: no wonder she didn't want to come forth. Most people

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Speaker 1: don't want to come for because they feel like they're

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Speaker 1: gonna get retality against. Here they're reading things of the insubordination,

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Speaker 1: being discharge, being put in a different units, are being toilets.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I read these things and I'm thinking, jeeves

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Speaker 1: that can imagine that she was going through. I mean, sure,

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Speaker 1: you have a beautiful nine year old girl. Her sergeant

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Speaker 1: walks in on her while she's taken a shower. How

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Speaker 1: creepy he sits there and watches her. She doesn't feel comfortable.

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Speaker 1: She asked him to leave. So you know, you have

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Speaker 1: the situation where have a young girl who doesn't know

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Speaker 1: what to do. She's in the military, her parents were immigrants.

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Speaker 1: It really it breaks my heart the ship's experiences, and

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Speaker 1: then another time she experiences another sexual harassment from another

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Speaker 1: sergeant of hers. She doesn't know what to do, she

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Speaker 1: doesn't want to get any trouble by seeing anything. And

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Speaker 1: here when the Army says to us, Oh, we didn't,

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Speaker 1: we didn't. We didn't look into this because sexual harassment

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Speaker 1: is not criminal. That was like where I was. They

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Speaker 1: blew my mind when they say they did not look

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Speaker 1: into it, because so they didn't say that was not verifiable, incredible.

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Speaker 1: They said that there was no reporting of it and

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Speaker 1: therefore they never looked into it. So when we said, well,

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Speaker 1: wouldn't you want to look to the sexual harassment because

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Speaker 1: that could lead due to some criminal behavior. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know behind every cargreature's five, they're going to fight

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Speaker 1: other information and other Hyson criminals a criminal nature because

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Speaker 1: you don't know, right, just because she said to her

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Speaker 1: mom that she guys actually arrived doesn't mean she told

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Speaker 1: the whole story. She could have been specially assaults it.

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Speaker 1: Kids don't want to tell them parents that they were assaulted.

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Speaker 1: You know. Natalie Kawan is with me, the lawyer for

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Speaker 1: Vanessa's family. Natalie, I bet you'd be really surprised at

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Speaker 1: all the people who may have a lot of degrees

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Speaker 1: and a lot of experience that stayed quiet when they

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Speaker 1: were sex harassed, some of them because they were at

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Speaker 1: a mission. Like Vanessa, she wanted to serve her country.

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Speaker 1: Lawyers have cases that they're committed to that they want

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Speaker 1: to win in court, and saying that, let's just pretend

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Speaker 1: a judge or another lawyer or an investigation investigator sucks

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Speaker 1: harrass them repeatedly. If that were to come out and

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Speaker 1: a big complaint file, the case would be blown up.

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Speaker 1: And what about the clients or the victims in that case,

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Speaker 1: what happens to them mistrial? I mean, there are so

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Speaker 1: many things that women balance when they make the decision

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Speaker 1: not to come forward. But Natalie Kawan, I'm so glad

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Speaker 1: you're telling me that of two incidents she actually reported

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Speaker 1: to her colleagues, not just her mom and her friends,

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Speaker 1: but to colleagues at work. Guys, I want you to

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Speaker 1: take a listen to our friends at Fox seven. This

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Speaker 1: is Austin reporter Shannon Ryan talking about exactly what Nale

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Speaker 1: Kawan was just saying. The website I Am Vanessa, Gee

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Speaker 1: and listen. Yean disappeared after telling family and friends she

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Speaker 1: was being sexually harassed on post. Right now, it's unclear

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Speaker 1: if her disappearance is connected to the reported sexual harassment,

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Speaker 1: but her story has encouraged women throughout the country to

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Speaker 1: come forward. And share their own experiences with sexual misconduct

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Speaker 1: in the military. I want people to know that you know,

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Speaker 1: women and women in the military. We don't need to

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Speaker 1: be protected, we need to be respected. Nineteen years ago, YARIMR.

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Speaker 1: Lewis was a nineteen year old Private first class at

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Speaker 1: Fort Hood. I want to conserve my country. Today, she's

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Speaker 1: one of hundreds of women sharing their stories under the

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Speaker 1: hashtag I Am Vanessa Gean. The twenty year old private

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Speaker 1: first class disappeared from post on April twenty second. She

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Speaker 1: told family and friends she was being actually harassed, which

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Speaker 1: is unaccessable because she wasn't supposed to be safe while

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Speaker 1: working and protecting the country. We live in crime Stories

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Speaker 1: with Nancy Grace. Guys, we are talking about bombshell evidence

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Speaker 1: that us just come forward in the last hours in

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Speaker 1: the search for Vanessa again. Straight out to Levi Page,

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Speaker 1: crime online dot com investigative reporter now joining us Levi Page,

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Speaker 1: tell me about the discovery of Gregory when Dell Morales remains.

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Speaker 1: Let's start there and then we'll move to the newly

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Speaker 1: discovered remains. So Gregory when Dell Morales was twenty three

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Speaker 1: years old, he went missing August twenty nineteen, a few

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Speaker 1: days before he was going to leave the army and

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Speaker 1: his remains were found last week. It's and positively confirmed

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Speaker 1: that they were him. And this was found during the

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Speaker 1: search of Vanessa again and FOURTHOOD is playing everything very

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Speaker 1: close to the vest, Nancy. They're not releasing a lot

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Speaker 1: of information about it. What do we know about Vanessa again?

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Speaker 1: Take eight? Listen to what her sister has to say

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Speaker 1: to the six News your porter Jasmine Colwell. Investigators say

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Speaker 1: the twenty year old soldier was last seen April twenty

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Speaker 1: second at one pm. She was a family where our

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Speaker 1: weld ten girl. She was signing that would come home

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Speaker 1: that world her parties to every right benings like off

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Speaker 1: Dame down. You know it would be easy for her

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Speaker 1: to choose the other route and no, she would come

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Speaker 1: home every weekend to us. Myra says. Her sister means

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Speaker 1: the world to her and she'd do anything to find her.

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Speaker 1: I love her and I'm not gonna stop. I'm not

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Speaker 1: gonna stop until I hup her whistles because I meant

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Speaker 1: the Army. C ID is encouraging anyone with information to

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Speaker 1: come forward, even if you choose to remain anonymous. Please

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Speaker 1: go to Crime online dot com see Vanessa again, read

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Speaker 1: her story. I think about my little girl, Lucy. I

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Speaker 1: have twins, John David Lucy. They're only twelve, but they're

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Speaker 1: about to turn thirteen. Vanessa just seven years older than

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Speaker 1: my girl, and I want her prepared to go out

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Speaker 1: in the world and be a huge hit and whatever

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Speaker 1: she chooses to do. And to think that she would

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Speaker 1: be sex harassed at work and afraid to come forward

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Speaker 1: or lose her job, because don't you know that is

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Speaker 1: exactly what Vanessa thought. If I come forward, I'll never

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Speaker 1: make it anywhere in the army, I'll be black bald,

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Speaker 1: I'll get a discharge. Then what am I gonna do it?

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Speaker 1: It's just making me ill to even think about it.

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Speaker 1: To Karen start joining me New York psychologist. You can

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Speaker 1: find her at Karen Stark dot com. You know, it

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Speaker 1: doesn't give women very much of a choice. And I

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Speaker 1: don't want to go down a rabbit hole hole on

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Speaker 1: sex harassment. I want to help find Vanessa, but I

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Speaker 1: can't help but believe that these two are intertwined. The

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Speaker 1: sex harassment she was endearing, and I believe her and

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Speaker 1: her disappearance. Karen Stark, I mean when you think of

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Speaker 1: your daughter going out there and putting up with a

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Speaker 1: crap that she had to put up with and then

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Speaker 1: go missing. I mean, if she was right, Karen Stark,

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Speaker 1: if she had said anything, I bet she would have

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Speaker 1: been black Balt. Well, especially Nancy, you're talking about the

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Speaker 1: armed services. You're talking about the army, and as it

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Speaker 1: was said earlier, that's a place where you are not

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Speaker 1: supposed to I mean, they don't say you can, but

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Speaker 1: I'd be surprised if they're actually doing any kind of

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Speaker 1: investigation to look into this. She knew to be afraid

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Speaker 1: because it's not acceptable. You're supposed to be strong, you're

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Speaker 1: supposed to deal with it. You're not supposed to ever

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Speaker 1: report on somebody else, especially sexual harassment. And again, our

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Speaker 1: program today is about searching for Vanessa. But I truly believe,

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Speaker 1: I mean, James Shellnutt twenty seven years much a major case. Now, lawyer,

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Speaker 1: Come on, James, can you believe that two are not connected?

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Speaker 1: Because think about it. At Fort Hood, every person that

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Speaker 1: comes in, not leaving, but comes in, goes through a

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Speaker 1: security guard checkpoint and if you're a visitor, you have

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Speaker 1: to show your ID and they make a list of

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Speaker 1: who's coming in. I mean they've do that TV studios

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Speaker 1: for Pete's sake. When you leave not so much, but

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Speaker 1: they knew every visitor coming in. And if you work there,

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Speaker 1: I guess you just show your badge. But long story short,

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Speaker 1: this was at lunchtime. She left all her stuff in

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Speaker 1: the armoring where she worked on a munition's repair, and

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Speaker 1: she took with her just her cell phone. She left

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Speaker 1: behind her ID, her room card to get in and

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Speaker 1: out of her room, her keys, her wallet, all of

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Speaker 1: her stuff. She just walked out with just her cell phone,

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Speaker 1: just as if you and I would walk to a

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Speaker 1: different room, we might carry our cell phone with us

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Speaker 1: in case it rang. She never came back. I find

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Speaker 1: it very difficult believe that some intrude or some outsider

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Speaker 1: took her so ergo. Therefore, if an insider a furthood

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Speaker 1: is involved, how likely is it it's not connected to

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Speaker 1: these on the job set harassment claims. Yeah, I agree

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Speaker 1: that that is something that needs to be put up

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Speaker 1: on her magnifying glass. You know, the bottom line is,

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Speaker 1: you know as well as I do, when a person

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Speaker 1: leaves their keys, persh wallet, personal belongings like that they

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Speaker 1: are planning on coming back for those things. That's not

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Speaker 1: something you permanent leave or abandoned somewhere. It means that

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Speaker 1: she was planning on coming back. So when you look

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Speaker 1: at these two cases, one of the first things that

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Speaker 1: you know, looking at from a to take this point

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Speaker 1: of view, that you want to do is you want

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Speaker 1: to try to connect the dots between these two cases.

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Speaker 1: Did these two know each other? I mean, that's one

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Speaker 1: of the first questions that you want to ask. And

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Speaker 1: then number two after that, you know, do these people

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Speaker 1: know the same people? Is there any connection in between

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Speaker 1: the people they know? We're the group that they run in.

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Speaker 1: And I think that the investigators looking at this case

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Speaker 1: are fumbling the ball if they don't go back and

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Speaker 1: look at the other case file of the young man

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Speaker 1: that came up missing and remains letter discovered. You know,

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Speaker 1: think about guys. Karen Smith joining me forensics expert lecturer,

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Speaker 1: University of Florida. Now she has her own podcast called

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Speaker 1: Shattered Sold. Karen Smith and I first met. I think

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Speaker 1: Karen when we were doing a reenactment of a murder

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Speaker 1: and all the possibilities that would help us prove what happened.

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Speaker 1: Did it happen this way? Did it happen that way.

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Speaker 1: Remember that and all that fake blood. Karen Smith. Yes,

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Speaker 1: let's talk about what we know. We know that she

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Speaker 1: left her ID card, which you need. You know, when

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Speaker 1: you're at work, you need your ID if you carry

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Speaker 1: an ID, her wallet, and in my mind even more important,

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Speaker 1: her car keys. So when I think I've lost my keys,

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Speaker 1: which is often, I need to put one of those

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Speaker 1: little tile things on there, but I immediately try to

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Speaker 1: find them. I like, I can't find my car keys.

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Speaker 1: Why would she left her car keys? And that tells

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Speaker 1: anybody you don't have to be forensic expert like yourself

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Speaker 1: to know she meant to come back because she left

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Speaker 1: her car keys at her workspace space and her workstation.

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Speaker 1: That's correct. I'm a military veteran. I'll tell you this.

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Speaker 1: When you go on base, you go through a checkpoint

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Speaker 1: and they randomly check id's on the way. In a

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Speaker 1: lot of times, there'll be a sticker on your car

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Speaker 1: and you get waved in or you get saluted if

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Speaker 1: you're an officer. Then you go to your workstation. I

426
00:27:21,680 --> 00:27:24,440
Speaker 1: worked in an airplane hangar. That's where I parked. That's

427
00:27:24,480 --> 00:27:27,040
Speaker 1: where I went. They come in and they check to

428
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:29,280
Speaker 1: make sure you are where you're supposed to be when

429
00:27:29,320 --> 00:27:31,200
Speaker 1: you're supposed to be there. And one of the things

430
00:27:31,280 --> 00:27:34,080
Speaker 1: that really disturbs me when I read this, Nancy, was

431
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,280
Speaker 1: the fact that they do must numerous times a day.

432
00:27:38,119 --> 00:27:41,119
Speaker 1: If Vanessa went or excuse me, if she went missing

433
00:27:41,440 --> 00:27:44,240
Speaker 1: at eleven thirty to twelve thirty in the afternoon and

434
00:27:44,359 --> 00:27:48,119
Speaker 1: she missed Mustard, they've already said that that was a mistake,

435
00:27:48,200 --> 00:27:52,080
Speaker 1: that they counted her present when she wasn't. That is

436
00:27:52,240 --> 00:27:55,040
Speaker 1: not That's not what happens in the military. If you're

437
00:27:55,119 --> 00:27:58,719
Speaker 1: not there, they find out where you are. Because when

438
00:27:58,760 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: you sign up and you signed paper and you swear

439
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:04,320
Speaker 1: an oath to the Constitution, they own you. You are

440
00:28:04,440 --> 00:28:08,200
Speaker 1: there for the duration. And that's which they should have

441
00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,320
Speaker 1: started this entire thing the minute she did not show

442
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:13,520
Speaker 1: up to muster. Let me ask you something you just said.

443
00:28:14,080 --> 00:28:16,680
Speaker 1: Did they do muster For those of the don't know

444
00:28:16,800 --> 00:28:19,160
Speaker 1: what that means? Could you explain it very quickly? Sure,

445
00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:21,760
Speaker 1: it's a check in. It's basically, are you doing your job?

446
00:28:21,840 --> 00:28:23,359
Speaker 1: Are you where you're supposed to be When you're in

447
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,119
Speaker 1: the military, attention to detail and doing your job is

448
00:28:27,240 --> 00:28:30,280
Speaker 1: what you have signed up for. And I was an

449
00:28:30,320 --> 00:28:33,240
Speaker 1: aviation structural mechanic. If I wasn't in the hangar and

450
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: I wasn't there at say, three o'clock in the afternoon,

451
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,440
Speaker 1: they would want to know where I'm at. Am I

452
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,920
Speaker 1: down at aimd am, I down at the dock getting

453
00:28:41,960 --> 00:28:44,680
Speaker 1: plane parts off of an aircraft. They know where I'm

454
00:28:44,680 --> 00:28:46,920
Speaker 1: at because A I have signed out, I've checked in

455
00:28:47,000 --> 00:28:50,400
Speaker 1: with my superior officers. They know where I'm at every

456
00:28:50,480 --> 00:29:07,200
Speaker 1: minute of every single ding Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,

457
00:29:07,240 --> 00:29:10,440
Speaker 1: we were talking about the disappearance of a beautiful young

458
00:29:10,600 --> 00:29:14,160
Speaker 1: twenty year old private first class at Fort Hood. Her

459
00:29:14,240 --> 00:29:19,840
Speaker 1: name Vanessa Gim. At first, we kept doing the story

460
00:29:20,120 --> 00:29:24,080
Speaker 1: because I felt no one was focusing on Vanessa's disappearance.

461
00:29:24,120 --> 00:29:26,800
Speaker 1: She was getting lost in the sauce and everything else

462
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:29,440
Speaker 1: is happening in our country right now. But in the

463
00:29:29,520 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: last hours a bobshell in the case. More remains have

464
00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: been found in the search for Vanessa. Straight back out

465
00:29:40,640 --> 00:29:44,520
Speaker 1: to crime online dot COM's Levi page, LEVI take a lesson.

466
00:29:44,720 --> 00:29:49,440
Speaker 1: Listen to what we know about Vanessa herself. This is ABC,

467
00:29:49,640 --> 00:29:54,720
Speaker 1: Good Morning America, Stephanie Ramos. Listen. Before Vanessa went missing,

468
00:29:54,800 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 1: her family says she told them she was being sexually

469
00:29:57,720 --> 00:30:00,400
Speaker 1: harassed by one of her sergeants and didn't tell her

470
00:30:00,480 --> 00:30:04,520
Speaker 1: superiors for fear of retribution. The Army now saying they

471
00:30:04,600 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: will investigate those allegations, adding that the search for the

472
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 1: private first class continues on the ground and in the air.

473
00:30:13,280 --> 00:30:16,480
Speaker 1: But that response not good enough for the hundreds that

474
00:30:16,640 --> 00:30:19,720
Speaker 1: gathered outside the army post Friday. How can we not

475
00:30:19,920 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 1: find one of our own? How can they not find

476
00:30:22,520 --> 00:30:25,840
Speaker 1: one of their own? Concerns over the missing soldier gaining

477
00:30:25,920 --> 00:30:30,240
Speaker 1: traction on social media, actress Salmahayek joining the effort, posting

478
00:30:30,280 --> 00:30:33,560
Speaker 1: a message on Instagram saying, bring back Vanessa. We won't

479
00:30:33,600 --> 00:30:37,520
Speaker 1: stop until you come back. Joining me in Austar Pale,

480
00:30:37,640 --> 00:30:42,200
Speaker 1: including the lawyer for Vanessa Geean's family. Straight back to you,

481
00:30:42,400 --> 00:30:45,440
Speaker 1: Levipage Crime online dot com investigative reporter again, tell me

482
00:30:45,600 --> 00:30:50,240
Speaker 1: about the remains found near those of another young private

483
00:30:50,640 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: there at Fort Hood that disappeared. Hood claim they didn't

484
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:57,280
Speaker 1: know anything about it. Well, he turns up dead and buried,

485
00:30:58,040 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: you know, and the shadows of Fort Hood far from

486
00:31:00,880 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: the Army base. His name Gregory, When del Morales do

487
00:31:05,640 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: we know a cod on Morales yet, Levi Page and

488
00:31:08,920 --> 00:31:14,200
Speaker 1: where in relation to Morales's Moraine remains were these new

489
00:31:14,560 --> 00:31:19,440
Speaker 1: remains discovered? Nancy. We do not know how Morales died.

490
00:31:19,920 --> 00:31:22,320
Speaker 1: We don't know the cause of death yet. But what

491
00:31:22,480 --> 00:31:25,680
Speaker 1: we do know is that over the weekend, thirty volunteers

492
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:31,680
Speaker 1: from Texas Equasearch, a very respected search group, found remains.

493
00:31:32,080 --> 00:31:37,120
Speaker 1: They came across these remains in an undisclosed area near Footthood.

494
00:31:37,760 --> 00:31:41,240
Speaker 1: Near the remains were twenty three year old soldier Gregory

495
00:31:41,320 --> 00:31:45,800
Speaker 1: Morales was found June nineteenth. He went missing in August

496
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:50,560
Speaker 1: of twenty nineteen. We don't know whose remains they were.

497
00:31:51,360 --> 00:31:54,520
Speaker 1: They're keeping everything very close to the vest. Joining me

498
00:31:54,640 --> 00:31:59,120
Speaker 1: right now a special guest, the leader of Texas equa Search.

499
00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,440
Speaker 1: You found those remains, Tim Miller. Tim Miller, before I

500
00:32:03,520 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: get into how you got involved in Vanessa Game's disappearance,

501
00:32:07,200 --> 00:32:10,360
Speaker 1: tell me about how your team found the second set

502
00:32:10,480 --> 00:32:13,280
Speaker 1: of remains. Well, the remains were found her than walking

503
00:32:13,360 --> 00:32:15,640
Speaker 1: this sense of Gregory, But we are not the ones

504
00:32:15,680 --> 00:32:18,920
Speaker 1: that actually found him. It was actually somebody else called

505
00:32:18,960 --> 00:32:22,760
Speaker 1: a tip in and that's how they was found. While

506
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 1: why we were searching got it. Yeah, but we're not

507
00:32:27,520 --> 00:32:30,960
Speaker 1: the Nancy has food for thoughts here, just something for

508
00:32:31,120 --> 00:32:34,720
Speaker 1: y'all to think about. When I was talking to Maylor

509
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:38,680
Speaker 1: and I said they were what would Vanessa be wearing?

510
00:32:39,000 --> 00:32:42,600
Speaker 1: And Mayor said, well, she's working, she's going to be

511
00:32:42,760 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: wearing her army clothes. So, you know what, we always

512
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,000
Speaker 1: want to think about the last person that's seen her.

513
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:54,760
Speaker 1: We really got big question marks right now. Why if

514
00:32:54,800 --> 00:32:57,640
Speaker 1: she was working, she was wearing the clothes that the

515
00:32:57,960 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: last person said that she was wearing. And we don't

516
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:05,400
Speaker 1: believe that is credible information. People in the military, when

517
00:33:05,400 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 1: they're working their work, there were in their armory clothes.

518
00:33:07,800 --> 00:33:10,960
Speaker 1: She said she would have those other clothes underneath her

519
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:16,160
Speaker 1: army clothes, so when she decided to go jogging, then

520
00:33:16,520 --> 00:33:19,560
Speaker 1: she would take her army clothes up. The other question

521
00:33:19,720 --> 00:33:23,560
Speaker 1: is did she leave on her own from that armory

522
00:33:23,760 --> 00:33:26,960
Speaker 1: to go to lunch. Well, I'm telling you we don't

523
00:33:27,000 --> 00:33:30,360
Speaker 1: think that is the case. Was she last seen by

524
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: somebody else? We don't think that was the case. Neither

525
00:33:35,800 --> 00:33:39,080
Speaker 1: our thoughts are now. She never lost left that armory

526
00:33:39,400 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: on her own. Straight back out to Natalie Kawadi, lawyer

527
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:47,640
Speaker 1: for Vanessa Game's family. Natalie, let's clear up those very

528
00:33:48,000 --> 00:33:53,920
Speaker 1: very insightful questions by Tim Miller. At the very beginning, Natalie,

529
00:33:54,480 --> 00:33:59,400
Speaker 1: I asked what was she wearing? I was told black leggings,

530
00:34:00,000 --> 00:34:03,040
Speaker 1: athletic laggings that she might go jogging in. And I asked,

531
00:34:03,080 --> 00:34:05,120
Speaker 1: why did she have on her uniform? And I was

532
00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,920
Speaker 1: told that it was okay for her not to wear

533
00:34:08,000 --> 00:34:11,560
Speaker 1: her uniform that day. Do you know the answer to that? Yeah,

534
00:34:11,640 --> 00:34:15,479
Speaker 1: she was actually off that day. Someone called her into work.

535
00:34:16,440 --> 00:34:18,719
Speaker 1: That's the most troubling part. They won't provide us to

536
00:34:18,840 --> 00:34:21,479
Speaker 1: the name of the person who called her into work.

537
00:34:21,960 --> 00:34:24,319
Speaker 1: She was supposed to go hiking that afternoon with her

538
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:26,960
Speaker 1: friend on the base. They were going to go out

539
00:34:27,440 --> 00:34:31,160
Speaker 1: for a hike, so she definitely had a day planned

540
00:34:31,160 --> 00:34:33,239
Speaker 1: ahead of her. She was only to come in for

541
00:34:33,280 --> 00:34:36,120
Speaker 1: a couple hours to do something on her day off,

542
00:34:36,360 --> 00:34:39,440
Speaker 1: and that's when she disappeared. Okay. A couple of questions.

543
00:34:40,200 --> 00:34:42,160
Speaker 1: Was the friend she was to go hiking with? Male

544
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,200
Speaker 1: or female? A male? Has he been questioned? Yeah, I

545
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,920
Speaker 1: spoke to him too. Has he been questioned by police

546
00:34:48,040 --> 00:34:51,399
Speaker 1: or fourthood authorities? I understand he has been questioned several

547
00:34:51,440 --> 00:34:55,200
Speaker 1: times by agents. I see a d agent. Okay, and

548
00:34:55,880 --> 00:35:00,520
Speaker 1: who called her in on her day off. They won't

549
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:03,120
Speaker 1: provide that for us. Actually, they didn't even provide that

550
00:35:03,280 --> 00:35:05,680
Speaker 1: information to me about him being questioned. I had to

551
00:35:05,760 --> 00:35:09,759
Speaker 1: ask him about that. I'm very curious. I mean, think

552
00:35:09,800 --> 00:35:13,360
Speaker 1: about it, Karen Smith. It's her day off and she

553
00:35:13,480 --> 00:35:17,960
Speaker 1: gets called in, and coincidentally, on the day she gets

554
00:35:18,000 --> 00:35:21,600
Speaker 1: called in, she gets missing. Yeah, that doesn't ring as

555
00:35:21,680 --> 00:35:25,680
Speaker 1: coincidental to me at all. Nancy. When you're called into work,

556
00:35:25,800 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: there's a specific reason for that plane needs to be

557
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:32,239
Speaker 1: turned around for deployment, a windshield crack, something happened that

558
00:35:32,400 --> 00:35:34,319
Speaker 1: needs to be repaired. They don't have the manpower they

559
00:35:34,360 --> 00:35:36,200
Speaker 1: need you to come in and help. If she was

560
00:35:36,239 --> 00:35:39,800
Speaker 1: called in to help with something, then they know exactly

561
00:35:39,840 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: who called her in and the reason why. If there

562
00:35:42,400 --> 00:35:46,920
Speaker 1: was something different than they need to either investigate the

563
00:35:47,000 --> 00:35:49,040
Speaker 1: person who called her in. That's one of the first

564
00:35:49,080 --> 00:35:51,719
Speaker 1: place they need to start, because that person may have

565
00:35:51,800 --> 00:35:54,760
Speaker 1: been the last person to see her. You know. Another

566
00:35:54,920 --> 00:35:59,640
Speaker 1: question regarding the discovery of these remains, I'm trying to

567
00:35:59,760 --> 00:36:06,000
Speaker 1: do Terman, if any other items were found, clothing, personal items,

568
00:36:06,440 --> 00:36:11,080
Speaker 1: anything like that. Tim Miller, Texas SEC Research do we know? Yeah,

569
00:36:11,120 --> 00:36:16,840
Speaker 1: his clothes were found, his idea was found, and of

570
00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:21,399
Speaker 1: course it uh, you know, it's been investigator on who

571
00:36:21,520 --> 00:36:24,919
Speaker 1: did this, but it was foul play back to doctor

572
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:28,560
Speaker 1: Chris Sperry, former Chief Medical Examiner for the State of Georgia.

573
00:36:28,800 --> 00:36:34,960
Speaker 1: Doctor Sperry, at this point, do you believe that tracker

574
00:36:35,080 --> 00:36:40,719
Speaker 1: dogs should be able to track Vanessa's route off forth Hood?

575
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:45,440
Speaker 1: If she ever even left forth Hood? It's been as

576
00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:49,560
Speaker 1: long as it's been. I've given about a fifty fifty

577
00:36:49,640 --> 00:36:53,480
Speaker 1: chance they might be able to track her, but it's

578
00:36:53,600 --> 00:36:59,080
Speaker 1: it's very difficult. And also if she walked there, I mean,

579
00:36:59,160 --> 00:37:04,120
Speaker 1: if she traveled under her own ability, it would be

580
00:37:04,320 --> 00:37:09,200
Speaker 1: much easier to track unless except if she was carried,

581
00:37:09,600 --> 00:37:13,719
Speaker 1: if she was brought there by someone else, then her

582
00:37:14,400 --> 00:37:18,080
Speaker 1: you know, leaving sent trails for dogs would be very

583
00:37:18,160 --> 00:37:22,360
Speaker 1: very slim. To Tim Miller, I understand that tech Texas

584
00:37:22,400 --> 00:37:27,520
Speaker 1: EQ Research said it found items on Saturday that could

585
00:37:27,600 --> 00:37:33,960
Speaker 1: be linked to Vanessa. Is this true? We're anxiously waiting

586
00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:38,319
Speaker 1: for lab reports to come back. Can you tell us

587
00:37:38,320 --> 00:37:42,400
Speaker 1: what the items were? H Well, you know, there is

588
00:37:42,440 --> 00:37:47,560
Speaker 1: a there's actually a witness has seems something um and

589
00:37:47,719 --> 00:37:52,280
Speaker 1: we campus close that. I think that we actually found

590
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:57,520
Speaker 1: something that a witness seems so everybody's excited. To Texas

591
00:37:57,640 --> 00:38:01,200
Speaker 1: Rangers and military, they gave more. There's a lot of

592
00:38:01,239 --> 00:38:05,160
Speaker 1: people out there, so we're anxiously waiting for lab reports

593
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:07,800
Speaker 1: to come back on on the item that you found.

594
00:38:08,719 --> 00:38:11,719
Speaker 1: You found it. We found that by that river, that

595
00:38:11,880 --> 00:38:16,640
Speaker 1: Leon River, which is twenty six miles away. Our fear

596
00:38:17,160 --> 00:38:21,200
Speaker 1: is that that she was thrown in that river. We

597
00:38:21,360 --> 00:38:25,920
Speaker 1: are going back tomorrow and we got miles and miles

598
00:38:26,320 --> 00:38:29,759
Speaker 1: of river to do. We know that you know, if

599
00:38:29,840 --> 00:38:33,640
Speaker 1: she was thrown in that river that you know of

600
00:38:33,760 --> 00:38:37,440
Speaker 1: course by now our body would be decomposed. Were it's

601
00:38:37,719 --> 00:38:40,760
Speaker 1: it's impossible to get a boat down there. We're actually

602
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,680
Speaker 1: going to have ten kayaks. We feel as though hopefully

603
00:38:45,000 --> 00:38:50,239
Speaker 1: maybe it rained three days afterwards, maybe if her little

604
00:38:50,280 --> 00:38:52,759
Speaker 1: body was in there, then when the water went bound,

605
00:38:52,800 --> 00:38:55,279
Speaker 1: she could be on a shoreline, or maybe we could

606
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:59,160
Speaker 1: find some of her clothes possibly caught up. And because

607
00:38:59,160 --> 00:39:02,279
Speaker 1: there's many trees and branches and debris in their sol

608
00:39:02,719 --> 00:39:06,960
Speaker 1: where does Leon empty h and it empties into it

609
00:39:07,200 --> 00:39:11,759
Speaker 1: actually goes to a damn for lake belt and and

610
00:39:11,880 --> 00:39:15,000
Speaker 1: of course at the dam area's very deep. We we

611
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:17,320
Speaker 1: actually had our big boat in our sonar, and we

612
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:20,799
Speaker 1: sown heard all of that lake belt. So you don't

613
00:39:20,880 --> 00:39:23,040
Speaker 1: think she made it too. If she was thrown in

614
00:39:23,160 --> 00:39:25,239
Speaker 1: that river, you don't think she made it to the lake.

615
00:39:25,800 --> 00:39:29,120
Speaker 1: We're only hoping that we can find some more evidence

616
00:39:29,239 --> 00:39:32,359
Speaker 1: that we can find her clothes, or with little God's luck,

617
00:39:32,880 --> 00:39:35,600
Speaker 1: maybe we can find part of her or all of hers.

618
00:39:35,680 --> 00:39:40,080
Speaker 1: So we're yeah, we're heading back out today and we

619
00:39:40,200 --> 00:39:42,960
Speaker 1: got a lot of work ahead of us. To Miller,

620
00:39:44,040 --> 00:39:46,600
Speaker 1: I know you've been working around the clock. To you

621
00:39:46,920 --> 00:39:50,640
Speaker 1: and everyone joining us right now, I want to thank

622
00:39:50,719 --> 00:39:55,840
Speaker 1: you because everything we do could help in some small,

623
00:39:56,000 --> 00:40:01,239
Speaker 1: some tiny way in finding Vanessa. Tipline two one two

624
00:40:01,600 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: nine four one eighty three hundred repeat two one four

625
00:40:06,239 --> 00:40:10,959
Speaker 1: nine four one eighty three hundred two one four nine

626
00:40:11,040 --> 00:40:15,359
Speaker 1: four one eighty three hundred Nancy Grace Crime Story signing off,

627
00:40:15,960 --> 00:40:16,640
Speaker 1: goodbye friend,