1 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:14,520 Speaker 1: The patta da is a fundamental part of ballet. It's 2 00:00:14,520 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: a duet almost always between a man and a woman. 3 00:00:18,040 --> 00:00:21,880 Speaker 1: It's something every professional ballet dancer confronts, usually in their adolescence. 4 00:00:23,040 --> 00:00:25,800 Speaker 1: Like most things in ballet, partnering is harder than it looks. 5 00:00:26,400 --> 00:00:28,840 Speaker 1: Dancing at pata dua tests the lessons you've learned in 6 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:36,520 Speaker 1: the ballet classroom. When she was eighteen, Adrianna Pears got 7 00:00:36,520 --> 00:00:39,600 Speaker 1: the opportunity to choreograph a patada for the first time. 8 00:00:40,520 --> 00:00:42,080 Speaker 1: It was two thousand and eight and it was for 9 00:00:42,120 --> 00:00:45,879 Speaker 1: a student choreography workshop at the school Balancine founded, the 10 00:00:45,960 --> 00:00:47,440 Speaker 1: School of American Ballet. 11 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:54,160 Speaker 2: And I was kind of going through my discovery of 12 00:00:54,200 --> 00:00:56,200 Speaker 2: my own sexuality at the time. I just had my 13 00:00:56,240 --> 00:01:00,160 Speaker 2: heart broken for the first time, and so I did 14 00:01:00,200 --> 00:01:10,880 Speaker 2: this like very sensual, romantic potada. And the guy really 15 00:01:11,200 --> 00:01:14,119 Speaker 2: is very passionate about this woman that he's dancing with 16 00:01:14,240 --> 00:01:18,960 Speaker 2: and very excited and wanting to kind of dive in 17 00:01:19,000 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 2: with her. And she's like there, but not fully, and 18 00:01:22,920 --> 00:01:26,080 Speaker 2: I think there's something holding her back. And she lets 19 00:01:26,160 --> 00:01:31,039 Speaker 2: him take the lead emotionally, and then they go their 20 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:40,200 Speaker 2: separate ways and end apart. Doesn't necessarily have to do 21 00:01:40,360 --> 00:01:43,880 Speaker 2: with my life totally at the time, But I think 22 00:01:44,120 --> 00:01:48,640 Speaker 2: I was discovering what love was and what sexuality was, 23 00:01:48,880 --> 00:01:53,720 Speaker 2: and I knew that I wanted to elicit some sort 24 00:01:53,760 --> 00:01:57,400 Speaker 2: of like deep emotional response from the audience. 25 00:02:09,360 --> 00:02:12,600 Speaker 1: At the School of American Ballet, Adriana had learned the 26 00:02:12,639 --> 00:02:15,880 Speaker 1: mechanics of partnering, what it felt like to put trust 27 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,160 Speaker 1: in the boys in her classes to hoist her over 28 00:02:18,200 --> 00:02:23,360 Speaker 1: their heads in a suspended overhead lift. Now, in making 29 00:02:23,400 --> 00:02:27,320 Speaker 1: her own patada, she began to understand what that movement conveyed. 30 00:02:28,600 --> 00:02:31,800 Speaker 2: So I was using these lifts where she is really 31 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,920 Speaker 2: not doing anything with a very specific intention, and the 32 00:02:35,960 --> 00:02:38,560 Speaker 2: way I used it was to show that the woman 33 00:02:38,680 --> 00:02:42,240 Speaker 2: has no agency, or has less agency, or is making 34 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,959 Speaker 2: less like dynamic choices about the relationship. 35 00:02:51,440 --> 00:02:54,240 Speaker 1: For My Heart podcasts in Rococo Punch, This is the 36 00:02:54,280 --> 00:03:05,280 Speaker 1: Turning Room of Mirrors America Lands, Part nine, how to 37 00:03:05,320 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: dom Adriana remembers when she was a new student at 38 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,400 Speaker 1: the School of American Ballet and she first learned how 39 00:03:19,400 --> 00:03:22,880 Speaker 1: to shape her fingers in the Balancine style, a more open, 40 00:03:23,000 --> 00:03:25,520 Speaker 1: rounded hand with splayed fingers. 41 00:03:25,680 --> 00:03:28,720 Speaker 2: And it feels like you're holding air and when you 42 00:03:28,800 --> 00:03:32,360 Speaker 2: move through space, it breathes with you and it feels 43 00:03:32,400 --> 00:03:37,960 Speaker 2: like very expansive and empowered. And I remembered just thinking 44 00:03:37,960 --> 00:03:41,320 Speaker 2: to myself, oh yeah, this is good, Like this makes 45 00:03:41,360 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 2: sense to me in my body. 46 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:46,160 Speaker 1: Adriana says her points us had always felt like a 47 00:03:46,240 --> 00:03:49,280 Speaker 1: throne to her. She loved the feeling of lifting up 48 00:03:49,320 --> 00:03:54,000 Speaker 1: onto the tips of her toes, of lengthening, of growing tall, 49 00:03:54,040 --> 00:03:56,120 Speaker 1: but she had yet to confront the role her gender 50 00:03:56,160 --> 00:03:57,520 Speaker 1: dictated in this art form. 51 00:03:58,800 --> 00:04:03,760 Speaker 2: So I can think back to my first partnering classes 52 00:04:04,240 --> 00:04:09,200 Speaker 2: at SAB was with Jock Soto, and she's a fabulous teacher. 53 00:04:10,040 --> 00:04:12,760 Speaker 2: But what I can remember from those early days, first 54 00:04:12,760 --> 00:04:14,240 Speaker 2: of all, I loved it. I had a great time. 55 00:04:15,160 --> 00:04:20,000 Speaker 1: But it's very gendered, first of all, very binary boys 56 00:04:20,000 --> 00:04:22,880 Speaker 1: and girls. Boys and girls who have already diverged in 57 00:04:22,920 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: their training and how they dance. The girls have learned 58 00:04:31,480 --> 00:04:36,520 Speaker 1: to dance on point, to be graceful, flexible, impossibly elegant. 59 00:04:37,600 --> 00:04:40,360 Speaker 1: The boys have learned big jumps and tricks, and teachers 60 00:04:40,360 --> 00:04:42,760 Speaker 1: have warned some of the boys not to be too graceful, 61 00:04:43,200 --> 00:04:48,440 Speaker 1: too feminine. In partnering class, Adriana says her teacher would 62 00:04:48,480 --> 00:04:51,320 Speaker 1: turn to the boys and say pick a girl, and 63 00:04:51,400 --> 00:04:53,800 Speaker 1: the boys would pick their partners grab a girl. 64 00:04:54,080 --> 00:04:58,760 Speaker 2: That's like the terminology. So I just would okay, grab me, 65 00:05:00,040 --> 00:05:02,919 Speaker 2: and then we would learn a combination. And most of 66 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,120 Speaker 2: it is just the guys having to figure out how 67 00:05:05,120 --> 00:05:07,240 Speaker 2: to do it and build the strength, because you were 68 00:05:07,279 --> 00:05:11,120 Speaker 2: talking like teenage boys who are not developed fully either. 69 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:16,560 Speaker 2: But it's like they get the opportunity to learn and 70 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,040 Speaker 2: to try and to fail and to grow and to build. 71 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:23,520 Speaker 2: And my job as a woman was to be grabbed 72 00:05:23,560 --> 00:05:26,440 Speaker 2: and held and let them figure it out. And I 73 00:05:26,800 --> 00:05:32,120 Speaker 2: and you put your trust in that. I never thought differently. 74 00:05:33,040 --> 00:05:38,240 Speaker 2: You lift me, It's my job to look pretty and 75 00:05:38,320 --> 00:05:41,080 Speaker 2: have good technique and like have my leg high and 76 00:05:41,120 --> 00:05:43,200 Speaker 2: the guy just has to figure out how to keep 77 00:05:43,240 --> 00:05:46,479 Speaker 2: you on your balance. At that time in my life, 78 00:05:46,520 --> 00:05:48,240 Speaker 2: I was just I really was just absorbing. 79 00:05:52,880 --> 00:05:56,039 Speaker 1: She also absorbed how they ended each partnering class. Boys 80 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:59,520 Speaker 1: had to do pushups, girls drilled ashia pes, these steps 81 00:05:59,520 --> 00:06:01,200 Speaker 1: where you ra but lea slide your feet in and 82 00:06:01,200 --> 00:06:04,160 Speaker 1: out and roll up on the point. That stuck with her. 83 00:06:04,720 --> 00:06:07,240 Speaker 2: The emphasis for the women was their technique and their 84 00:06:07,279 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 2: lines and their aesthetic, and for the men it was 85 00:06:09,600 --> 00:06:12,279 Speaker 2: their strength and their core, and I definitely started thinking 86 00:06:12,279 --> 00:06:13,120 Speaker 2: about that a lot. 87 00:06:13,600 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 1: A few years later, she got the chance to choreograph 88 00:06:16,000 --> 00:06:20,039 Speaker 1: her first Potida, part of a student choreographic workshop at SAP. 89 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:24,080 Speaker 1: It was about two people in a relationship. The guy 90 00:06:24,200 --> 00:06:26,839 Speaker 1: is all in, but the woman is less sure. She 91 00:06:26,920 --> 00:06:29,159 Speaker 1: lets him pursue her, then she seems to pull away. 92 00:06:29,920 --> 00:06:32,440 Speaker 1: She slides along when he lifts her high above his head. 93 00:06:33,160 --> 00:06:37,039 Speaker 2: I think I was discovering what love was and what 94 00:06:37,279 --> 00:06:41,119 Speaker 2: sexuality was in my own life, and I knew that 95 00:06:41,560 --> 00:06:46,960 Speaker 2: I wanted to elicit some sort of like deep emotional 96 00:06:47,000 --> 00:06:49,160 Speaker 2: response from the audience. 97 00:06:50,080 --> 00:06:53,280 Speaker 1: In partnering class, Adriana had learned how to do these 98 00:06:53,440 --> 00:06:57,159 Speaker 1: suspended overhead lifts where the man lifts the woman up 99 00:06:57,279 --> 00:07:00,200 Speaker 1: high into the air. She used lifts like that her 100 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: piece in a purposeful way to show the woman is passive, 101 00:07:03,839 --> 00:07:07,640 Speaker 1: uncommitted to the relationship, complacent enough to let the man lead. 102 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,320 Speaker 1: What audience members responded to was the sensuality of the piece. Women, 103 00:07:12,520 --> 00:07:15,520 Speaker 1: especially older women, approached her after your piece. 104 00:07:15,600 --> 00:07:18,960 Speaker 2: I loved your piece. I really responded to that, and 105 00:07:19,000 --> 00:07:21,840 Speaker 2: I thought to myself, WHOA okay? Well, and then I wow, yeah, 106 00:07:21,840 --> 00:07:23,840 Speaker 2: I think I want to be a professional choreographer. 107 00:07:24,720 --> 00:07:28,320 Speaker 1: In choreographing, Adriana found a new kind of freedom, an 108 00:07:28,400 --> 00:07:30,720 Speaker 1: answer to the lack of control she sometimes felt in 109 00:07:30,720 --> 00:07:34,240 Speaker 1: the ballet classroom. In the classroom, she'd been conditioned to 110 00:07:34,240 --> 00:07:37,520 Speaker 1: stay silent, to obey the teacher. She made sure to 111 00:07:37,520 --> 00:07:43,040 Speaker 1: fit the mold of the ballerina, pretty thin, feminine. But 112 00:07:43,080 --> 00:07:50,240 Speaker 1: Adriana still needed to figure out how she fit. For 113 00:07:50,320 --> 00:07:54,000 Speaker 1: one thing, the majority of professional choreographers are men. And 114 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:55,960 Speaker 1: then there was the fact that she still hid a 115 00:07:56,000 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: big part of herself. 116 00:07:58,520 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 2: I remember walking in the halls of sab and thinking, like, 117 00:08:04,640 --> 00:08:08,239 Speaker 2: am I the only one like me who's ever walked 118 00:08:08,280 --> 00:08:13,600 Speaker 2: these halls. I had never heard of anyone any queer 119 00:08:13,600 --> 00:08:17,080 Speaker 2: women before, never at that time, No. Never. 120 00:08:18,600 --> 00:08:21,160 Speaker 1: She was out to her high school friends and a 121 00:08:21,200 --> 00:08:24,680 Speaker 1: few ballet friends, but mostly in ballet, She says she 122 00:08:24,720 --> 00:08:27,360 Speaker 1: felt like she stuck out, as if she were carrying 123 00:08:27,400 --> 00:08:30,880 Speaker 1: around a backpack all the time, an awkward accessory that 124 00:08:31,000 --> 00:08:34,079 Speaker 1: everyone could see, but the secret of who she really 125 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:35,600 Speaker 1: was was tucked inside. 126 00:08:37,559 --> 00:08:40,440 Speaker 2: I didn't have fully have language for myself, even about 127 00:08:40,440 --> 00:08:42,080 Speaker 2: who I was, but I knew that people were already 128 00:08:42,160 --> 00:08:44,720 Speaker 2: kind of like is she but like not really knowing. 129 00:08:46,080 --> 00:08:49,040 Speaker 2: So when I got into the company at City Ballet, 130 00:08:49,120 --> 00:08:53,400 Speaker 2: I was deathly afraid of making the other women uncomfortable. 131 00:08:54,000 --> 00:08:59,880 Speaker 2: That was like my overwhelming experience. I was terrified, constant anxiety. 132 00:09:02,880 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: By the time she was an apprentice, she was in 133 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:08,079 Speaker 1: a tenuous position. She had not yet secured an official 134 00:09:08,080 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 1: spot in the company. 135 00:09:09,840 --> 00:09:12,920 Speaker 2: In ballet companies, there's a lot of couples At the time. 136 00:09:13,080 --> 00:09:17,280 Speaker 2: I remember thinking to myself, I should get a boyfriend 137 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:22,200 Speaker 2: in the company to secure my job. And I remember 138 00:09:22,800 --> 00:09:25,040 Speaker 2: having conversations with my friend of mine, who was also 139 00:09:25,040 --> 00:09:29,160 Speaker 2: an apprentice gay man, and we were saying, like that 140 00:09:29,240 --> 00:09:33,400 Speaker 2: might help us, because it's so messed up that I 141 00:09:33,480 --> 00:09:36,200 Speaker 2: thought that that would actually give me some job security. 142 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 2: And not to say that that is actually the case, 143 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:41,080 Speaker 2: but there was some insurance there if I could like 144 00:09:41,720 --> 00:09:45,920 Speaker 2: really show that I was a straight woman, that somehow 145 00:09:45,960 --> 00:09:47,160 Speaker 2: that would secure my spot. 146 00:09:48,080 --> 00:09:50,040 Speaker 1: It was before one performance that it all came to 147 00:09:50,160 --> 00:09:53,439 Speaker 1: a head. The women's dressing rooms in the theater are upstairs, 148 00:09:53,760 --> 00:09:55,400 Speaker 1: but they had to take the elevator down to the 149 00:09:55,400 --> 00:09:58,360 Speaker 1: stage level to get into their costumes, and so all 150 00:09:58,360 --> 00:10:00,480 Speaker 1: the quarter Valley women, all of them the whole company 151 00:10:00,679 --> 00:10:02,839 Speaker 1: are all just like putting their costumes on in this 152 00:10:02,960 --> 00:10:06,080 Speaker 1: like one room, and the dressers and some of the 153 00:10:06,080 --> 00:10:10,080 Speaker 1: women were talking about how hot Hugh Jackman is and 154 00:10:10,240 --> 00:10:12,240 Speaker 1: so somehow I was in the middle of this conversation 155 00:10:12,280 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: that was happening all around me, and the dresser asked 156 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: me which was putting my cost Munch asked me like, oh, 157 00:10:16,960 --> 00:10:18,200 Speaker 1: what do you think about Hugh? And I was like 158 00:10:18,280 --> 00:10:21,080 Speaker 1: it's not for me, like I don't know, and she goes, 159 00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:23,040 Speaker 1: oh really, But then like who is for you? 160 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,680 Speaker 2: Like what kind of guys do you like? And the 161 00:10:26,720 --> 00:10:30,480 Speaker 2: whole room stopped talking and like looked to see what 162 00:10:30,480 --> 00:10:33,080 Speaker 2: I was gonna say. She was like no, no, really, 163 00:10:33,120 --> 00:10:39,000 Speaker 2: like what's your like man flavor? And I was like, I, well, ah, 164 00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:43,760 Speaker 2: I'm gay, and she goes, no, you're not, and I 165 00:10:43,800 --> 00:10:48,720 Speaker 2: was like, oh no, yeah, yeah I am. And again 166 00:10:48,760 --> 00:10:51,960 Speaker 2: the whole room like no one moving, no one breathing, 167 00:10:52,360 --> 00:10:54,960 Speaker 2: and I'm just like, this is my worst case scenario, 168 00:10:55,240 --> 00:10:58,240 Speaker 2: Like I'm in Valanchine's house like with all these naked women, 169 00:10:58,280 --> 00:11:00,319 Speaker 2: and I'm just like coming out in front of every 170 00:11:00,360 --> 00:11:06,400 Speaker 2: against my will. And then one of my friends, Maya, 171 00:11:06,600 --> 00:11:08,720 Speaker 2: she came to my aid, and she goes, actually, I'm 172 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,439 Speaker 2: her flavor, and I was like, thank you, Maya. Okay, 173 00:11:11,520 --> 00:11:19,240 Speaker 2: she cut the tension, and then it was like, okay, 174 00:11:19,360 --> 00:11:20,800 Speaker 2: no one knew how to talk about it, and no 175 00:11:20,800 --> 00:11:22,680 Speaker 2: one knew how to approached me about it, and everyone knew, 176 00:11:22,720 --> 00:11:25,040 Speaker 2: but no one knew and hah, and I wasn't talking 177 00:11:25,080 --> 00:11:26,920 Speaker 2: about it, and so it kind of like almost burst 178 00:11:27,000 --> 00:11:30,760 Speaker 2: this bubble of like panic. So I'm kind of glad 179 00:11:30,800 --> 00:11:37,040 Speaker 2: that happened, but wow, is it traumatic. So that's how 180 00:11:37,080 --> 00:11:39,080 Speaker 2: I came out to all of the women in the 181 00:11:39,080 --> 00:11:41,360 Speaker 2: Court of Ballet and ne York City Valley in two 182 00:11:41,360 --> 00:11:42,280 Speaker 2: thousand and nine. 183 00:11:45,880 --> 00:11:48,360 Speaker 1: Like so many dancers, she didn't get a job after 184 00:11:48,400 --> 00:11:52,000 Speaker 1: her apprenticeship, so she went to another prestigious ballet company, 185 00:11:52,360 --> 00:11:57,440 Speaker 1: another company centered on Balancine's choreography, Miami City Ballet. She 186 00:11:57,520 --> 00:12:01,240 Speaker 1: stayed there seven years. She also Korea when she could. 187 00:12:01,679 --> 00:12:04,440 Speaker 1: While there, she made a piece called Cafe Music. She 188 00:12:04,520 --> 00:12:06,559 Speaker 1: took that first pott of dough she'd made at SAB 189 00:12:07,160 --> 00:12:10,760 Speaker 1: and added two more movements, and this time she approached 190 00:12:10,800 --> 00:12:11,360 Speaker 1: it differently. 191 00:12:12,720 --> 00:12:17,960 Speaker 2: I took special care to pass who's leading and who's 192 00:12:17,960 --> 00:12:20,640 Speaker 2: following back and forth, and that's just what it was, 193 00:12:20,679 --> 00:12:22,600 Speaker 2: just what was coming out of me naturally. 194 00:12:23,679 --> 00:12:26,320 Speaker 1: But it wasn't natural for these professional ballet dancers to 195 00:12:26,400 --> 00:12:27,080 Speaker 1: dance this way. 196 00:12:30,040 --> 00:12:32,520 Speaker 2: My friend Andre, who was the dancer, was having a 197 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:36,840 Speaker 2: hard time, like letting his partner, you know, hold him 198 00:12:36,920 --> 00:12:39,160 Speaker 2: or pull him. And I remember the dancers asking me 199 00:12:39,200 --> 00:12:43,600 Speaker 2: what is this about? And I said, it's about finding yourself. 200 00:12:45,000 --> 00:12:49,319 Speaker 2: It's about finding who you are within your friendships, within 201 00:12:49,360 --> 00:12:51,600 Speaker 2: your partnerships. When you're out at a club, when you're 202 00:12:51,640 --> 00:12:53,440 Speaker 2: out at a bar, who are you and how do 203 00:12:53,480 --> 00:12:54,880 Speaker 2: you relate to the people around you. 204 00:12:58,200 --> 00:13:00,679 Speaker 1: As Adriana played with the push and of these new 205 00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:03,800 Speaker 1: ways of partnering and who was taking the lead, she 206 00:13:03,840 --> 00:13:08,240 Speaker 1: also rehearsed her original padata with that overhead lift, she 207 00:13:08,360 --> 00:13:11,760 Speaker 1: began to realize how little choreographers consider the meaning of 208 00:13:11,800 --> 00:13:17,800 Speaker 1: this movement. For her, in mena surrender of agency, but 209 00:13:17,840 --> 00:13:21,040 Speaker 1: in practically all other examples she'd previously seen or danced, 210 00:13:21,200 --> 00:13:23,840 Speaker 1: it felt like a showpiece, a feed of strength that 211 00:13:23,880 --> 00:13:26,480 Speaker 1: hammered home an idea about the roles of men and 212 00:13:26,520 --> 00:13:27,480 Speaker 1: women in dance. 213 00:13:31,760 --> 00:13:33,840 Speaker 2: What I realized about suspend it overhead lifts is that 214 00:13:33,880 --> 00:13:37,360 Speaker 2: they are very gendered because Traditionally, what we're used to 215 00:13:37,400 --> 00:13:42,360 Speaker 2: seeing is a man lifting a woman, and you, whether 216 00:13:42,400 --> 00:13:44,920 Speaker 2: it's conscious or not, understand that it can't be the 217 00:13:44,920 --> 00:13:48,160 Speaker 2: other way around, because it's just not what we're used 218 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:49,760 Speaker 2: to seeing, and it's also not the way that women 219 00:13:49,800 --> 00:13:51,280 Speaker 2: are trained or socialized. 220 00:13:53,840 --> 00:13:58,440 Speaker 1: After that realization, Adriana choreographed many more ballet pieces, but 221 00:13:58,559 --> 00:14:01,840 Speaker 1: she never used another over lift. She didn't put them 222 00:14:01,840 --> 00:14:04,320 Speaker 1: in any of her dances, not a single one. 223 00:14:05,840 --> 00:14:08,560 Speaker 2: And when I do use a lift, we move through it. 224 00:14:08,840 --> 00:14:11,719 Speaker 2: I kind of fold it into like the fabric of 225 00:14:12,080 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 2: the movement, so there's never like a point where we're 226 00:14:14,520 --> 00:14:22,480 Speaker 2: sitting there and being like that man is lifting that woman. Wow. 227 00:14:38,160 --> 00:14:43,040 Speaker 1: At Miami City Ballet, Adriana continued to choreograph pieces. As 228 00:14:43,040 --> 00:14:46,120 Speaker 1: she watched the partnering works being created and performed around her, 229 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: she was struck with a familiar feeling, we. 230 00:14:49,320 --> 00:14:52,000 Speaker 2: Are just fully accepting the fact that we are always 231 00:14:52,040 --> 00:14:55,760 Speaker 2: seeing partnerships where the women have less agency, over and 232 00:14:55,840 --> 00:14:57,200 Speaker 2: over and over and over again. 233 00:14:58,000 --> 00:15:01,640 Speaker 1: In twenty fourteen, Adriana was he'd an invitation to choreograph 234 00:15:01,640 --> 00:15:05,080 Speaker 1: a piece for New York City Ballet Dancers, her old workplace, 235 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,720 Speaker 1: where the director Peter Martin's had not offered her a 236 00:15:07,760 --> 00:15:11,240 Speaker 1: contract to join the company after her apprenticeship. Now the 237 00:15:11,280 --> 00:15:13,240 Speaker 1: company was going to perform her work. 238 00:15:13,720 --> 00:15:15,480 Speaker 2: It was the first time I'm back in those studios 239 00:15:15,520 --> 00:15:19,320 Speaker 2: for someone back in Lincoln Center, since I had not 240 00:15:19,400 --> 00:15:22,000 Speaker 2: gotten my job and Peter Martin's didn't hire me. 241 00:15:22,680 --> 00:15:24,800 Speaker 1: When she returned to New York, Peter Martins was still 242 00:15:24,800 --> 00:15:27,680 Speaker 1: the director of the company, decades after he'd been chosen 243 00:15:27,680 --> 00:15:29,040 Speaker 1: to be Balancine's successor. 244 00:15:30,000 --> 00:15:32,640 Speaker 2: And we went out to dinner right that took us 245 00:15:32,640 --> 00:15:34,240 Speaker 2: out to dinner, and they made sure to tell me 246 00:15:34,240 --> 00:15:35,520 Speaker 2: that I was going to be sitting next to Peter 247 00:15:35,840 --> 00:15:38,479 Speaker 2: because he knew me, so that would make him feel comfortable, 248 00:15:39,120 --> 00:15:41,840 Speaker 2: and that I was responsible somehow for that. 249 00:15:42,600 --> 00:15:45,320 Speaker 1: Adriana says throughout the dinner, Peter was chumming with her, 250 00:15:45,680 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: periodically touching her leg or her arm. Again, she felt 251 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,720 Speaker 1: like she was playing a role that did not fit. 252 00:15:52,440 --> 00:15:55,680 Speaker 2: But like, is that just Peter's behavior. I don't think so. 253 00:15:55,960 --> 00:15:58,800 Speaker 2: I think there's this like system, it's passed down. It 254 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:01,040 Speaker 2: has to be. I wasn't there. I didn't know, mister 255 00:16:01,080 --> 00:16:02,880 Speaker 2: b I know the stories, I don't know what's true. 256 00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:03,600 Speaker 2: I don't know what's not. 257 00:16:04,280 --> 00:16:07,280 Speaker 1: Adriana grew up hearing stories and anecdotes passed down through 258 00:16:07,320 --> 00:16:10,880 Speaker 1: generations of women who had danced for balancing. At the time, 259 00:16:10,920 --> 00:16:15,200 Speaker 1: they felt useful, like don't think, just do it, offered 260 00:16:15,200 --> 00:16:16,920 Speaker 1: a way to get out of her head when she danced, 261 00:16:17,640 --> 00:16:19,600 Speaker 1: but there was one quote that always felt off. 262 00:16:20,480 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 2: Ballet is woman, okay, but woman is what woman is straight, 263 00:16:25,440 --> 00:16:30,920 Speaker 2: woman is thin, woman has makeup on, Woman makes her 264 00:16:31,000 --> 00:16:35,920 Speaker 2: male director feel confident. If we're using like partnering as 265 00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:39,360 Speaker 2: kind of a metaphor, I think it's like what the 266 00:16:39,400 --> 00:16:43,600 Speaker 2: woman's role is, Like the men are in charge, the 267 00:16:43,680 --> 00:16:46,760 Speaker 2: men make the choices, and we are We're gonna hold 268 00:16:46,800 --> 00:16:49,120 Speaker 2: ourselves and put our foot out and point it and 269 00:16:49,240 --> 00:16:53,480 Speaker 2: be the person who's following, not the person who's leading. 270 00:16:54,400 --> 00:16:57,040 Speaker 2: I think it's like the same on stage and off. 271 00:16:57,480 --> 00:17:00,960 Speaker 2: That's the legacy. It's like I don't even know if 272 00:17:00,960 --> 00:17:03,680 Speaker 2: it's distinctly balanchees or just ballet's legacy, but it's like 273 00:17:04,280 --> 00:17:06,920 Speaker 2: those are the roles that we play ballet as women. 274 00:17:07,040 --> 00:17:10,080 Speaker 2: But women don't have a say anything that happens to 275 00:17:10,160 --> 00:17:13,560 Speaker 2: them or their bodies. Like that's what's passed down. 276 00:17:14,440 --> 00:17:17,680 Speaker 1: The choices made about the choreography or staging in ballets 277 00:17:17,720 --> 00:17:24,760 Speaker 1: can perpetuate that. There's a moment. In Peter Martin's rendition 278 00:17:24,760 --> 00:17:28,399 Speaker 1: of Romeo and Juliet, at one point, the audience hears 279 00:17:28,480 --> 00:17:32,359 Speaker 1: a loud slap, the sound of Juliette's father hitting Juliet 280 00:17:32,480 --> 00:17:36,200 Speaker 1: and knocking her down, a detail that was never part 281 00:17:36,200 --> 00:17:42,840 Speaker 1: of Shakespeare's play. The company also performed a work called Odessa. 282 00:17:43,560 --> 00:17:47,439 Speaker 1: It was by a Russian choreographer, Alexey Radmonsky, and in 283 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:54,000 Speaker 1: the piece he staged a controversial gang rape scene. In 284 00:17:54,040 --> 00:17:58,600 Speaker 1: twenty seventeen, the same choreographer, Redmonsky, posted on Facebook about 285 00:17:58,600 --> 00:18:02,000 Speaker 1: gender equality and ballet, and it got a lot of attention. 286 00:18:03,119 --> 00:18:06,520 Speaker 1: He wrote, quote, sorry, there is no such thing as 287 00:18:06,560 --> 00:18:09,960 Speaker 1: equality in ballet. Women dance on point, men lift and 288 00:18:09,960 --> 00:18:13,880 Speaker 1: support women, women receive flowers, Men escort women off stage, 289 00:18:14,480 --> 00:18:16,480 Speaker 1: not the other way around. I know there are a 290 00:18:16,520 --> 00:18:19,480 Speaker 1: couple of exceptions, and I am very comfortable with that 291 00:18:20,240 --> 00:18:26,240 Speaker 1: end quote Above this caption, he posted an image two 292 00:18:26,359 --> 00:18:31,080 Speaker 1: dancers in Apatida. The picture was classic, almost stereotypical, but 293 00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,880 Speaker 1: it had been photoshopped clearly in order to appear absurd. 294 00:18:35,960 --> 00:18:38,640 Speaker 1: Instead of the man lifting the woman, the two tuned 295 00:18:38,680 --> 00:18:42,119 Speaker 1: point two ballerina lifts the man above her head in 296 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:49,239 Speaker 1: a suspended overhead lift. Adriana says when she saw it, 297 00:18:49,480 --> 00:18:52,639 Speaker 1: the post made her physically ill. The idea that this 298 00:18:52,760 --> 00:18:56,800 Speaker 1: extremely influential, world famous choreographer would say there was no 299 00:18:56,960 --> 00:19:01,399 Speaker 1: equality in ballet and he was okay with that. Adriana thought, 300 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:05,040 Speaker 1: this cannot be the only way we understand gender in ballet. 301 00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 2: That was really hard. I can't accept that. I'm like 302 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:11,080 Speaker 2: not okay with that, and I'm absolutely not okay with 303 00:19:11,160 --> 00:19:15,199 Speaker 2: moving forward with his art form just not having not 304 00:19:15,280 --> 00:19:18,199 Speaker 2: be a consideration, especially with newarks being quarreographed. 305 00:19:28,800 --> 00:19:33,120 Speaker 1: Adriana lives in an upper Manhattan studio apartment. She wears 306 00:19:33,119 --> 00:19:36,000 Speaker 1: a backwards baseball cap. When she opens the door, her 307 00:19:36,000 --> 00:19:40,640 Speaker 1: big smile almost gleams through miss Small boxes still wait 308 00:19:40,720 --> 00:19:44,440 Speaker 1: to be unpacked after a recent move. She rolls her neck, 309 00:19:44,560 --> 00:19:46,960 Speaker 1: rubbing an injury that had her paralyzed in bed for 310 00:19:47,000 --> 00:19:51,480 Speaker 1: a day. The shower stops running, and Adriana's girlfriend emerges 311 00:19:51,520 --> 00:19:55,919 Speaker 1: from the bathroom, Ala odey. ALA's long brown hair is 312 00:19:55,960 --> 00:19:59,840 Speaker 1: wavy and damp. She limps over her broken foot, still healing. 313 00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:05,040 Speaker 1: Both of them are professional dancers, Adriana perches on her 314 00:20:05,119 --> 00:20:08,399 Speaker 1: knees on the bed. Aila hopples over and hops on. 315 00:20:08,880 --> 00:20:11,520 Speaker 1: She snuggles into what seems like an ala shaped nook 316 00:20:11,640 --> 00:20:16,720 Speaker 1: in Adriana's arms. Adriana kisses her forehead and beams is. 317 00:20:16,800 --> 00:20:19,360 Speaker 1: They share the experience of making art that they love. 318 00:20:21,160 --> 00:20:26,200 Speaker 3: It is probably one of the most like freeing feelings 319 00:20:26,200 --> 00:20:30,479 Speaker 3: to dance on stage. But obviously, just like ballet as 320 00:20:30,520 --> 00:20:38,679 Speaker 3: an art form, there's a heavy influence of sexism racism. 321 00:20:39,400 --> 00:20:44,240 Speaker 1: This is ala Odey, Adriana's girlfriend. AILA's currently a soloist 322 00:20:44,280 --> 00:20:47,320 Speaker 1: at Carolina Ballet. The two of them see a lot 323 00:20:47,320 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 1: of overlap in their experiences. 324 00:20:49,880 --> 00:20:51,280 Speaker 3: Just like the world we live in, there are a 325 00:20:51,320 --> 00:20:54,640 Speaker 3: lot of systemic issues that put people into a lot 326 00:20:54,640 --> 00:20:55,240 Speaker 3: of boxes. 327 00:20:55,760 --> 00:20:58,560 Speaker 2: Yeah, did you ever worry that, like you would look 328 00:20:58,600 --> 00:20:59,760 Speaker 2: to butch on stage? 329 00:21:00,119 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 3: I mean constantly all the time, because I'm very like physically, 330 00:21:03,560 --> 00:21:07,040 Speaker 3: I'm athletic. I'm not like your a little wafy ballerina, 331 00:21:07,080 --> 00:21:09,560 Speaker 3: And so then it's like that's perceived to be more 332 00:21:09,600 --> 00:21:15,560 Speaker 3: masculine and athletic because athleticism is stereotyped with masculinity, and 333 00:21:15,640 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 3: therefore any movement I do is going to be perceived 334 00:21:19,160 --> 00:21:22,440 Speaker 3: to be more masculine. So I always am thinking about, 335 00:21:22,480 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 3: like if I'm in like something that seems like a 336 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:29,880 Speaker 3: role that's more feminine or like the the male view 337 00:21:29,920 --> 00:21:32,720 Speaker 3: of femininity, I'm like, Oh my god, do I look 338 00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,399 Speaker 3: like like a lesbian out here? 339 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,600 Speaker 2: You know? Is that an issue? When I first came 340 00:21:38,640 --> 00:21:40,560 Speaker 2: to Mimas Ballet, there was a one of the principal 341 00:21:40,640 --> 00:21:44,040 Speaker 2: dancers said, oh, is age on a lesbian because she 342 00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:48,480 Speaker 2: looks like one? Yeah, And I from like the moment 343 00:21:49,119 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 2: I started working there, I was like so terrified that 344 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,600 Speaker 2: I was like, yeah, that the way that I dance 345 00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,439 Speaker 2: somehow is like giving me away, and that people in 346 00:21:56,440 --> 00:21:59,320 Speaker 2: the audience would be like that one dyke, you know, Like. 347 00:21:59,280 --> 00:22:01,399 Speaker 3: I don't know, but it was very scary. No, it 348 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:05,560 Speaker 3: is really scary, and like especially too. I mean, more 349 00:22:05,560 --> 00:22:07,720 Speaker 3: of my fear was when I was closeted still in 350 00:22:07,840 --> 00:22:10,560 Speaker 3: like people would point blank be like, oh, are you 351 00:22:10,720 --> 00:22:13,800 Speaker 3: Leslian And then I'd be like, no, I'm not, and 352 00:22:13,840 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 3: They're like, are you sure. I didn't even think it 353 00:22:16,640 --> 00:22:22,320 Speaker 3: was possible to be a queer female identifying ballet answer. 354 00:22:25,680 --> 00:22:30,720 Speaker 1: That was until three years ago, in twenty twenty, he 355 00:22:30,840 --> 00:22:34,200 Speaker 1: lives at Carolina Ballet. She's sitting in a choreography workshop. 356 00:22:35,280 --> 00:22:38,080 Speaker 2: I'm like sitting on the floor. You know. 357 00:22:38,200 --> 00:22:43,119 Speaker 3: I was fresh in the company and in walks this blonde, tall, 358 00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:48,160 Speaker 3: beautiful woman in a blue stripe button down, and I'm like, 359 00:22:48,920 --> 00:22:51,399 Speaker 3: what is that? 360 00:22:51,400 --> 00:22:53,520 Speaker 2: That is not a straight woman. 361 00:22:54,480 --> 00:22:57,760 Speaker 1: It was Adriana walking in to help run the workshop. 362 00:22:57,760 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 2: And I kept asking around, being like she gay? Is 363 00:23:00,600 --> 00:23:02,359 Speaker 2: she gay? Like I was asking it all of my 364 00:23:02,400 --> 00:23:03,480 Speaker 2: friends and stuff, and they're like. 365 00:23:03,400 --> 00:23:05,840 Speaker 3: I don't know, Like I don't know her, you know whatever. 366 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:11,000 Speaker 3: And so, actually, Adriana was the voice female queer ballet 367 00:23:11,040 --> 00:23:22,560 Speaker 3: dancer I ever met. You're one of the first people 368 00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:25,000 Speaker 3: I like really came out to because you walked in 369 00:23:25,080 --> 00:23:28,520 Speaker 3: and I was like, oh my god, I'm not alone. 370 00:23:28,680 --> 00:23:31,040 Speaker 3: And so then I damned you because you made a 371 00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:36,920 Speaker 3: huge impact on me. Clearly, even though I know knew 372 00:23:36,920 --> 00:23:39,199 Speaker 3: it was okay to be gay, I just was like, 373 00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 3: not in my field, doesn't really exist because you know, 374 00:23:43,720 --> 00:23:47,840 Speaker 3: there was no visibility for any queer women in ballet. 375 00:23:48,520 --> 00:23:50,399 Speaker 2: It's not part of our world. It's not part of 376 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:53,520 Speaker 2: the conversations that like we're allowed to have through ballet. Right, 377 00:23:53,600 --> 00:23:56,720 Speaker 2: So even though there have been queer women throughout history. 378 00:23:56,760 --> 00:23:58,080 Speaker 2: We don't know who they are in the same way 379 00:23:58,080 --> 00:24:00,720 Speaker 2: that I know like every single one of Valancine's sexual partners. 380 00:24:00,760 --> 00:24:07,280 Speaker 2: You know what I'm saying. It's like, no, that's so true. 381 00:24:08,160 --> 00:24:11,000 Speaker 3: It felt impossible because I had just simply never seen it. 382 00:24:14,119 --> 00:24:17,600 Speaker 1: Periodically, Adriana gets a text from another queer dancer to 383 00:24:17,720 --> 00:24:20,680 Speaker 1: check out an Instagram post, almost like a treasure hunt 384 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,200 Speaker 1: for the stories of queer ballet dancers who came before 385 00:24:23,200 --> 00:24:25,360 Speaker 1: her instag was on Instagram. 386 00:24:25,440 --> 00:24:25,920 Speaker 2: Yeah, I did. 387 00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:29,240 Speaker 1: Adriana scrolls through her Instagram feed looking for something. 388 00:24:29,960 --> 00:24:31,480 Speaker 2: This is how this is like, I don't even know, 389 00:24:31,520 --> 00:24:33,840 Speaker 2: I have to look it up. This is what I'm saying. 390 00:24:34,720 --> 00:24:37,639 Speaker 2: So I actually don't know how to pronounce that lie 391 00:24:37,880 --> 00:24:39,560 Speaker 2: I see. I don't even know how to pronounce it. 392 00:24:39,600 --> 00:24:42,040 Speaker 2: But miss Fuller became an overnight sensation when she danced 393 00:24:42,040 --> 00:24:47,399 Speaker 2: her patented Serpentine dance at Fulle Brgier in Paris in 394 00:24:47,480 --> 00:24:50,360 Speaker 2: eighteen ninety two. Fuller even managed to be openly lesbian 395 00:24:50,400 --> 00:24:54,720 Speaker 2: while evoking virtually no titilation or disapproval in her public Interesting. 396 00:24:54,880 --> 00:24:58,800 Speaker 2: Interesting So nineteen fourteen's photos From nineteen fourteen, there was 397 00:24:58,880 --> 00:25:03,520 Speaker 2: also another one. Oh. Here it is Catherine de Ville, 398 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:08,080 Speaker 2: first first black woman with the Bolshoy in nineteen hundred ish. 399 00:25:08,400 --> 00:25:11,000 Speaker 2: Her dad was Creole push back on doing Coopelia in 400 00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:15,880 Speaker 2: white face, and despite having two husbands, was queer Captain Davillier. 401 00:25:15,960 --> 00:25:20,000 Speaker 2: I think it is when I was younger, like early twenties, 402 00:25:20,320 --> 00:25:24,560 Speaker 2: I could think of like maybe five or six, including myself, 403 00:25:24,880 --> 00:25:27,440 Speaker 2: women around the world who were in professional ballet companies, 404 00:25:27,880 --> 00:25:30,600 Speaker 2: not just in names, like around the world, people who 405 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:34,720 Speaker 2: were out, you know, and we're talking ballet specifically, like tights, 406 00:25:34,880 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 2: point shoes, leotards. Yeah, there are a lot of people 407 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,920 Speaker 2: who were in ballet and were professional but then left 408 00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 2: because they were like, I'm you know, I can't be 409 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:45,359 Speaker 2: myself in this space. 410 00:25:46,320 --> 00:25:49,080 Speaker 1: It's also hard to find any bit of queerness inside 411 00:25:49,119 --> 00:25:52,240 Speaker 1: any of the big story ballets. The classics ballet is 412 00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:52,639 Speaker 1: known for. 413 00:25:54,160 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 2: The gayest role in the ballet canon is Murta. 414 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:06,000 Speaker 1: Mirta is a ghost queen in the classical ballet. Giselle 415 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,719 Speaker 1: is ballet cannon choreographed by two men in eighteen forty one, 416 00:26:10,000 --> 00:26:14,400 Speaker 1: beloved by audiences coveted by dancers. Basically, the plot goes 417 00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:17,920 Speaker 1: like this, A beautiful young peasant girl and a disguised 418 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 1: nobleman fall in love. 419 00:26:19,960 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 2: She falls in love with this guy who comes into 420 00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:24,320 Speaker 2: town who is lying to her about who he is 421 00:26:24,359 --> 00:26:27,439 Speaker 2: because really he's royalty, but puts on peasants' clothes to 422 00:26:27,440 --> 00:26:32,080 Speaker 2: get this girl because she's pretty, falls in love. Turns 423 00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:34,840 Speaker 2: out he's actually a prince and is already betrothed to 424 00:26:34,880 --> 00:26:38,880 Speaker 2: someone else, so he can't be with her anyway. She's 425 00:26:39,119 --> 00:26:41,320 Speaker 2: very upset about that. Also, she has a weak heart, 426 00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,280 Speaker 2: so weak, and she's not allowed to dance. She can't dance, 427 00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:51,280 Speaker 2: So when she finds out that he's been lying her 428 00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:54,160 Speaker 2: this entire time, she has a full on mental breakdown, 429 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,200 Speaker 2: goes crazy. Legitimately, it's a mad scene. She's like ripping 430 00:26:59,200 --> 00:27:02,520 Speaker 2: her hair out and around the stage flat footed and 431 00:27:02,520 --> 00:27:04,520 Speaker 2: point shoes because that's the only time we can walk 432 00:27:04,560 --> 00:27:09,359 Speaker 2: flat footed, and when you're going crazy, and then she 433 00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:11,399 Speaker 2: loses it, and then she dies. 434 00:27:16,480 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: She collapses to the ground and she dies in some 435 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:25,360 Speaker 1: combination of over exertion and a broken heart, and then 436 00:27:25,440 --> 00:27:28,800 Speaker 1: her spirit goes to the land of the Willies. The 437 00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,480 Speaker 1: Willies are like a sisterhood of ghosts in the woods. 438 00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:35,360 Speaker 1: Ghosts of unmarried women who died after being betrayed by men. 439 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:41,160 Speaker 2: They're all scorn. There's scorn women who jilted virgins who 440 00:27:41,160 --> 00:27:44,040 Speaker 2: never made it, died before they got married. 441 00:27:44,119 --> 00:27:46,040 Speaker 3: Yeah, and they've been hurt by their their men. 442 00:27:46,520 --> 00:27:51,080 Speaker 2: And the queen of these jilted versions is Mirta. She's 443 00:27:51,119 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 2: a jiltedest of the mall. 444 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:57,240 Speaker 1: Mirta is a force in this ballet, a terrifying figure, 445 00:27:57,440 --> 00:28:00,879 Speaker 1: bitter and cool role conceived by the men who created 446 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,359 Speaker 1: the ballet almost two hundred years ago, and one of 447 00:28:03,400 --> 00:28:05,639 Speaker 1: the most heteronormative ballets in existence. 448 00:28:06,720 --> 00:28:07,920 Speaker 2: And she is a man hater. 449 00:28:08,440 --> 00:28:11,680 Speaker 3: And so if you are a man and you enter 450 00:28:11,720 --> 00:28:15,320 Speaker 3: the Land of the Willies during the nighttime, you are 451 00:28:15,359 --> 00:28:18,679 Speaker 3: sentenced to dance to death. So Mirta dances all of 452 00:28:18,680 --> 00:28:19,359 Speaker 3: them to death. 453 00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: After Giselle dies, the man who betrayed her, Albricht, goes 454 00:28:30,119 --> 00:28:33,520 Speaker 1: to her grave to mourn. He asks forgiveness of her ghost, 455 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:36,600 Speaker 1: and he follows that ghost to the Land of the Willies. 456 00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: He meets Mirta, who sentences Albricht to dance to death, 457 00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:45,400 Speaker 1: but then Giselle steps in. She helps Albricht by dancing 458 00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,480 Speaker 1: with him until morning, when the willies no longer have power. 459 00:28:49,440 --> 00:28:53,120 Speaker 1: The strength of her love saves Albricht, Giselle returns to 460 00:28:53,160 --> 00:29:01,480 Speaker 1: her grave, and Albricht lives. I always feel conflicted in 461 00:29:01,520 --> 00:29:05,000 Speaker 1: the beauty of Jazelle's passivity. At the start of the ballet, 462 00:29:05,080 --> 00:29:09,280 Speaker 1: She's rambunctious and just loves to dance and death. She's 463 00:29:09,280 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 1: floating like a wisp, a ghost, almost a corpse, and 464 00:29:14,080 --> 00:29:16,760 Speaker 1: some of the act to you patads. She's so passive, 465 00:29:17,280 --> 00:29:20,760 Speaker 1: but that liquidity that comes from floating along as Albrecht 466 00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:25,120 Speaker 1: pulls her is stunning to watch. I want to dance it. 467 00:29:32,760 --> 00:29:36,280 Speaker 1: My feelings about Giselle aside. The ballet presents a choice 468 00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,440 Speaker 1: for its women. You can be a Gizelle or a Mirta, 469 00:29:40,280 --> 00:29:45,320 Speaker 1: one forgiving, one vengeful, both defined by their relationships to men. 470 00:29:46,840 --> 00:29:50,600 Speaker 1: Mirta is powerful, but still she is one thing, a 471 00:29:50,640 --> 00:29:55,640 Speaker 1: representation of failed heteronormativity. In the ballet, she's defined by 472 00:29:55,640 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: the fact that she never married. Both roles feel like 473 00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:14,720 Speaker 1: a box. In the winter of twenty twenty one, Adriana 474 00:30:14,720 --> 00:30:17,680 Speaker 1: got the chance to tackle her unresolved feelings about the Patada. 475 00:30:18,320 --> 00:30:20,720 Speaker 1: What the Patada means for gender and for what roles 476 00:30:20,760 --> 00:30:24,000 Speaker 1: we all play she got an artist residency and drove 477 00:30:24,080 --> 00:30:26,240 Speaker 1: up to the Catskills in upstate New York. With two 478 00:30:26,320 --> 00:30:30,320 Speaker 1: dancers from American Ballet Theater. In a studio in the 479 00:30:30,320 --> 00:30:34,240 Speaker 1: woods away from the city, they began to work. They 480 00:30:34,280 --> 00:30:34,840 Speaker 1: had two. 481 00:30:34,640 --> 00:30:38,760 Speaker 2: Weeks and the goal for that residency was to work 482 00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,120 Speaker 2: on partnering with two dancers in points choos. 483 00:30:41,680 --> 00:30:44,640 Speaker 1: She wondered what a patada would look like entirely on point, 484 00:30:45,480 --> 00:30:46,480 Speaker 1: How would it even work? 485 00:30:47,200 --> 00:30:50,120 Speaker 2: What is possible and what isn't. I thought I would 486 00:30:50,160 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 2: just kind of play around and see what came. 487 00:30:53,200 --> 00:30:56,720 Speaker 1: But she found herself creating an actual piece instead, a 488 00:30:56,840 --> 00:31:06,240 Speaker 1: new dance a potada. This patado, though, would be between 489 00:31:06,280 --> 00:31:10,200 Speaker 1: two women, two queer women, something she'd never seen on 490 00:31:10,200 --> 00:31:11,520 Speaker 1: a ballet stage before. 491 00:31:12,880 --> 00:31:16,080 Speaker 2: I think a lot of queer stories are centered around 492 00:31:16,240 --> 00:31:20,160 Speaker 2: pain and trauma. Pain and trauma are definitely things that 493 00:31:20,320 --> 00:31:23,440 Speaker 2: queer people experience every day all over the world. But 494 00:31:23,680 --> 00:31:26,360 Speaker 2: it's been important to me to create peer stories that 495 00:31:26,480 --> 00:31:29,920 Speaker 2: come from a place of joy and love and respect. Specifically, 496 00:31:31,680 --> 00:31:36,080 Speaker 2: this was one that I wanted to feel respectful, overwhelmingly respectful. 497 00:31:36,120 --> 00:31:39,320 Speaker 2: And it's not one person manipulating the other, it's two 498 00:31:39,400 --> 00:31:43,400 Speaker 2: people with equal agency. Working together to create something beautiful, 499 00:31:43,840 --> 00:31:47,880 Speaker 2: and I think it's not necessarily romantic, although it is, 500 00:31:48,320 --> 00:31:53,000 Speaker 2: but it's explicitly queer in that there is love fare 501 00:31:53,040 --> 00:31:59,400 Speaker 2: and there is a tenderness. So I started to think about, 502 00:31:59,400 --> 00:32:04,320 Speaker 2: like what partnering is, what is it actually what makes. 503 00:32:04,160 --> 00:32:08,280 Speaker 1: Up a potative? She came up with these five pillars 504 00:32:08,320 --> 00:32:08,960 Speaker 1: of partnering. 505 00:32:09,720 --> 00:32:12,680 Speaker 2: First thing lifts, All types of lifts will go in 506 00:32:12,680 --> 00:32:17,640 Speaker 2: that category. Then there's counterbalance, like counterweight, so you're pulling 507 00:32:17,680 --> 00:32:21,360 Speaker 2: off each other, so there's an amount of tension between 508 00:32:22,040 --> 00:32:26,280 Speaker 2: the two dancers. There's promenades, things that were one person 509 00:32:26,400 --> 00:32:28,560 Speaker 2: is on balance and rotating. 510 00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,600 Speaker 1: Like one person is posed on point. Historically, the woman 511 00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,200 Speaker 1: she puts her hand on the man's arm and he 512 00:32:34,240 --> 00:32:36,880 Speaker 1: moves her around in a circle so that she twirls 513 00:32:36,960 --> 00:32:40,120 Speaker 1: slowly in place like the tiny ballery now you see 514 00:32:40,160 --> 00:32:41,320 Speaker 1: inside music boxes. 515 00:32:41,920 --> 00:32:46,560 Speaker 2: And then there's turns pure witz so like spinning. And 516 00:32:46,560 --> 00:32:49,240 Speaker 2: then the last pillar is what their connection is and 517 00:32:49,280 --> 00:32:53,040 Speaker 2: what story they're telling and how they tell it. You think, 518 00:32:53,040 --> 00:32:54,440 Speaker 2: you take that, you keep the hand. 519 00:32:55,440 --> 00:32:57,720 Speaker 1: She wanted to work through these pillars in the studio 520 00:32:57,880 --> 00:32:59,959 Speaker 1: one by one and find her own verse. 521 00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:04,400 Speaker 2: That's it. There, You go prom and I love it 522 00:33:05,800 --> 00:33:10,040 Speaker 2: and one, two, three, four, five, six. I don't want 523 00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:13,360 Speaker 2: to just stick two dancers on point together and fit 524 00:33:13,440 --> 00:33:17,160 Speaker 2: them inside the traditional rubric, a traditional blueprint of what 525 00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:20,000 Speaker 2: we understand partner to be. It needs to be our own, 526 00:33:20,040 --> 00:33:24,960 Speaker 2: it needs to be authentic. And here there we go. Yeah, 527 00:33:25,000 --> 00:33:27,120 Speaker 2: and as wide a lunge as possible. 528 00:33:27,960 --> 00:33:30,480 Speaker 1: Here here is the piece became her answers to those 529 00:33:30,520 --> 00:33:31,680 Speaker 1: five pillars. 530 00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,960 Speaker 2: In this space, with these two dancers telling this story, 531 00:33:35,040 --> 00:33:41,000 Speaker 2: a story of respectful queer affection. What's my answer to 532 00:33:41,600 --> 00:33:44,760 Speaker 2: the idea of a traditional lift, what's my answer to 533 00:33:44,800 --> 00:33:52,760 Speaker 2: these like to a partner turn? So you're stirring, stay connected? Yeah, 534 00:33:53,480 --> 00:33:56,960 Speaker 2: we do it one time. But the other thing that 535 00:33:57,000 --> 00:34:01,560 Speaker 2: I had to super dive into was point shoes and 536 00:34:01,640 --> 00:34:07,000 Speaker 2: how that affects the physicality of partnerships. The person who 537 00:34:07,120 --> 00:34:12,080 Speaker 2: has the flat shoe inherently and definitely has more agency 538 00:34:12,080 --> 00:34:14,360 Speaker 2: than the person in the points you. When you're in 539 00:34:14,400 --> 00:34:16,600 Speaker 2: a points you, you are not as grounded as a 540 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:19,759 Speaker 2: person in a flat shoe. You do not have as 541 00:34:19,840 --> 00:34:22,960 Speaker 2: much strength. So yeah, I'm in the room with the dancers. 542 00:34:22,960 --> 00:34:26,080 Speaker 2: I'm trying to figure out, Okay, can you both be 543 00:34:26,200 --> 00:34:29,440 Speaker 2: on point partner each other. No, you can't because you're 544 00:34:29,480 --> 00:34:32,359 Speaker 2: not stable, you're on your tippy toes. You can't do it. 545 00:34:32,600 --> 00:34:36,080 Speaker 2: You cannot lift you physically, like physically cannot lift another 546 00:34:36,160 --> 00:34:38,440 Speaker 2: human being when you are on a point show. You 547 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:40,560 Speaker 2: cannot do it. So what it ended up having to 548 00:34:40,600 --> 00:34:44,560 Speaker 2: be is like they would kind of pass the leading 549 00:34:44,560 --> 00:34:46,040 Speaker 2: and falling back and forth, which is what I do 550 00:34:46,080 --> 00:34:48,040 Speaker 2: anyway in my choreography, but I would like try to 551 00:34:48,080 --> 00:34:51,360 Speaker 2: have them on point, like as close as possible before 552 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:55,080 Speaker 2: and after to that passing of the leading and following. 553 00:34:56,120 --> 00:34:58,959 Speaker 2: Oh so let I think, let Sierra be in charge 554 00:34:59,000 --> 00:35:02,280 Speaker 2: of those arms coming down, so she's leading at that moment. 555 00:35:03,880 --> 00:35:06,560 Speaker 1: Another thing they had to confront was trust. They had 556 00:35:06,560 --> 00:35:08,040 Speaker 1: to learn a new kind of trust. 557 00:35:09,280 --> 00:35:15,160 Speaker 2: Sierra, let her really carry you, she's got you and 558 00:35:15,680 --> 00:35:18,000 Speaker 2: reach so you go into an attitude when I was 559 00:35:18,040 --> 00:35:20,720 Speaker 2: talking about my partnering classes, where it was this trust 560 00:35:20,719 --> 00:35:22,680 Speaker 2: that like the guy's gonna grab me and he has 561 00:35:22,719 --> 00:35:24,120 Speaker 2: to figure out and you know what if he drops me, 562 00:35:24,160 --> 00:35:25,799 Speaker 2: he has to figure it out. But when it's a 563 00:35:25,840 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 2: woman like there's we had to really deal with the 564 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:31,359 Speaker 2: fact that we didn't have that trust in each other. 565 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:33,600 Speaker 2: I do not trust that a woman's gonna get me. 566 00:35:33,640 --> 00:35:35,560 Speaker 2: I think I'm too heavy. I think she's gonna drop me. 567 00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:39,200 Speaker 2: I'm gonna hurt her. Those are things that like we 568 00:35:39,360 --> 00:35:41,640 Speaker 2: really have to like work through in order to do 569 00:35:41,680 --> 00:35:48,880 Speaker 2: this work, because I am trained to have trust in 570 00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,799 Speaker 2: a certain type of person doing a certain type of 571 00:35:50,800 --> 00:35:55,799 Speaker 2: thing to my body, and that person usually is a 572 00:35:55,880 --> 00:35:57,640 Speaker 2: man or identifies as a man. 573 00:35:58,960 --> 00:36:01,800 Speaker 1: She remembers. On date, she put the dancers in different 574 00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:05,680 Speaker 1: positions and said, close your eyes, feel each other's weight. 575 00:36:05,800 --> 00:36:08,279 Speaker 1: Move What does it feel like when you take the 576 00:36:08,320 --> 00:36:17,880 Speaker 1: other person's weight. Each day, Adriana and the dancers Remy 577 00:36:17,920 --> 00:36:20,880 Speaker 1: and si Her showed up and together they discover what 578 00:36:21,000 --> 00:36:23,920 Speaker 1: worked and problem solved along the way, adding new sections 579 00:36:23,960 --> 00:36:29,120 Speaker 1: to the piece. The beginning of the ballet was what 580 00:36:29,160 --> 00:36:30,160 Speaker 1: they created last. 581 00:36:32,239 --> 00:36:37,560 Speaker 2: I had them come out onto the stage and just 582 00:36:38,200 --> 00:36:43,680 Speaker 2: stand there. I wanted it to kind of be like, yeah, 583 00:36:43,719 --> 00:36:47,480 Speaker 2: you're going to see a gay potota, now you ready, 584 00:36:47,520 --> 00:36:51,319 Speaker 2: And then they start moving. I kept thinking about this 585 00:36:51,400 --> 00:36:53,040 Speaker 2: idea of carving space for each other. 586 00:36:54,480 --> 00:36:56,759 Speaker 1: The two of them don't touch, they don't even make 587 00:36:56,800 --> 00:37:01,400 Speaker 1: eye contact, Neither of them grabs the other, but they 588 00:37:01,480 --> 00:37:10,520 Speaker 1: start to move around each other. Their arms flow and 589 00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:14,120 Speaker 1: softly slice around the other's silhouette, like they're feeling what 590 00:37:14,160 --> 00:37:14,560 Speaker 1: it is. 591 00:37:14,480 --> 00:37:18,240 Speaker 2: To be close, carving space around each other. 592 00:37:19,120 --> 00:37:22,279 Speaker 1: Making space for each other, then moving within. 593 00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:27,160 Speaker 2: That space, tracing each other's bodies but not touching each other. 594 00:37:27,880 --> 00:37:30,960 Speaker 2: There's a respect in that, and the first time they 595 00:37:31,000 --> 00:37:32,560 Speaker 2: really like look at each other. I wanted there to 596 00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,239 Speaker 2: be like an establishing moment of I don't know, acknowledgment. 597 00:37:37,840 --> 00:37:40,319 Speaker 2: I didn't want it to look like choreography that we've 598 00:37:40,320 --> 00:37:43,200 Speaker 2: seen before with men and women. So what are different 599 00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:45,480 Speaker 2: ways that they can be connected? Well, grab our foot 600 00:37:45,719 --> 00:37:47,920 Speaker 2: and put it over your body, like ways that they 601 00:37:47,960 --> 00:37:49,960 Speaker 2: can be connected, that it's not just like hand and 602 00:37:50,000 --> 00:37:51,680 Speaker 2: waste and back and forth. 603 00:38:02,400 --> 00:38:06,120 Speaker 1: Watching it, I got shivers and then I started to 604 00:38:06,160 --> 00:38:11,120 Speaker 1: well up. Just seeing two women on stage being centered 605 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:12,759 Speaker 1: in a way that has nothing to do with how 606 00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:17,600 Speaker 1: men see them felt new. I realized I hadn't seen 607 00:38:17,640 --> 00:38:20,800 Speaker 1: it before, not quite like this, not while they're in 608 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:21,400 Speaker 1: point shoes. 609 00:38:25,680 --> 00:38:30,000 Speaker 2: We don't see women being tender with each other in ballet. 610 00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:35,840 Speaker 2: We don't get to see intimate relationships between two women, 611 00:38:36,680 --> 00:38:43,919 Speaker 2: tender and affectionate and loving. They dance separately from each other, 612 00:38:44,320 --> 00:38:46,800 Speaker 2: trying to figure out what it is they're each saying. 613 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:54,560 Speaker 1: One of them dips the other back, like that classic 614 00:38:54,640 --> 00:38:57,279 Speaker 1: tango move, what you've seen a man do to a 615 00:38:57,320 --> 00:38:59,080 Speaker 1: woman a hundred times. 616 00:39:00,120 --> 00:39:04,040 Speaker 2: She dips her, she immediately comes up onto point on 617 00:39:04,239 --> 00:39:07,440 Speaker 2: point together, but you can see how they're just constantly 618 00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:10,919 Speaker 2: passing back and forth. Who's leading, who's following, who's on point, 619 00:39:11,000 --> 00:39:14,759 Speaker 2: who's not, who's in charge? And then I wanted them 620 00:39:14,800 --> 00:39:22,600 Speaker 2: to end in some sort of partnered image. There's this 621 00:39:22,680 --> 00:39:27,200 Speaker 2: balancing piece. Actually it's in Midsummer Night's Dream. There's this 622 00:39:27,560 --> 00:39:30,880 Speaker 2: beautiful patada, beautiful PoTA the second act of the divertse 623 00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:36,160 Speaker 2: small patata, and it ends so slowly and suspended, and 624 00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:39,799 Speaker 2: it kind of moves into this beautiful lift that kind 625 00:39:39,800 --> 00:39:43,759 Speaker 2: of leaves you just completely breathless, and I wanted that 626 00:39:43,880 --> 00:39:52,919 Speaker 2: for them. They walk to the back and she does 627 00:39:52,960 --> 00:39:57,120 Speaker 2: a point and it remy kind of pulls back on her. 628 00:39:57,520 --> 00:40:01,200 Speaker 2: They're holding each other's weight. I wanted it to be 629 00:40:01,280 --> 00:40:09,799 Speaker 2: slow and to kind of go into slow, suspended, partnered 630 00:40:09,920 --> 00:40:11,440 Speaker 2: moment where they're working together. 631 00:40:21,960 --> 00:40:25,200 Speaker 1: The music fades until it's gone. They still move in 632 00:40:25,239 --> 00:40:27,480 Speaker 1: the silence, slowing. 633 00:40:30,520 --> 00:40:35,960 Speaker 2: And then it kind of fizzles into this like last 634 00:40:36,080 --> 00:40:38,520 Speaker 2: moment of carving space together. 635 00:40:45,040 --> 00:40:47,880 Speaker 1: When I watch the piece, it's like I feel Ballet 636 00:40:48,000 --> 00:40:50,600 Speaker 1: is a woman in a new way, in a way 637 00:40:50,640 --> 00:40:53,359 Speaker 1: that empowers in a way I don't think I've ever 638 00:40:53,360 --> 00:40:53,960 Speaker 1: seen before. 639 00:40:57,320 --> 00:41:00,600 Speaker 2: And now there's like a whole new of young people 640 00:41:00,600 --> 00:41:04,680 Speaker 2: who are just like out Jill, feeling great and I 641 00:41:04,760 --> 00:41:09,200 Speaker 2: love that. But Ballet hasn't changed. So like that's why 642 00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:13,040 Speaker 2: it's like, we need to be making more diverse works. 643 00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:15,200 Speaker 2: We need to be hiring, we need to be commissioning 644 00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:17,799 Speaker 2: from more diverse people and telling more stories so that 645 00:41:17,840 --> 00:41:20,200 Speaker 2: these people, these young people who are feeling great about 646 00:41:20,239 --> 00:41:22,440 Speaker 2: themselves and feeling great about being queer, have a space 647 00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 2: to actually exist as themselves, so they don't have to 648 00:41:25,320 --> 00:41:26,680 Speaker 2: do the thing that we always had to do, which 649 00:41:26,719 --> 00:41:28,160 Speaker 2: was turn that part of us off. 650 00:41:28,560 --> 00:42:01,080 Speaker 4: You know, next time on the Turning, when you finally 651 00:42:01,160 --> 00:42:09,240 Speaker 4: do move on, there's a recovery period, and I think 652 00:42:09,400 --> 00:42:15,960 Speaker 4: the recovery period takes about ten years on average to 653 00:42:16,960 --> 00:42:18,040 Speaker 4: function in. 654 00:42:17,880 --> 00:42:28,640 Speaker 1: The quote unquote real world. The Turning is a production 655 00:42:28,719 --> 00:42:32,560 Speaker 1: of Rococo Punch and iHeart Podcasts. It's written and produced 656 00:42:32,640 --> 00:42:36,440 Speaker 1: by Alan Lance Lesser and me. Our story editor is 657 00:42:36,440 --> 00:42:41,040 Speaker 1: Emily Foreman. Mixing and sound designed by James Trout. Jessica 658 00:42:41,120 --> 00:42:45,240 Speaker 1: Crisa is our assistant producer. Andrea Assuage is our digital producer. 659 00:42:45,760 --> 00:42:52,839 Speaker 1: Fact checking by Andrea Lopez Crusado. You can learn about 660 00:42:52,840 --> 00:42:57,200 Speaker 1: Adriana's continued work to showcase LGBTQ plus artists and stories 661 00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:02,160 Speaker 1: in ballet at Queerdeballet dot com. Special thanks to Sierra 662 00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: Armstrong and Remy Young, who danced and adrianas potted to overlook. 663 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:10,719 Speaker 1: Music for Overlook provided by composer Julia Kent. It can 664 00:43:10,719 --> 00:43:19,560 Speaker 1: be found at music dot Julia Kent dot com. Our 665 00:43:19,600 --> 00:43:23,120 Speaker 1: executive producers are jog Parati and Jessica Alpert at Rococo 666 00:43:23,160 --> 00:43:27,080 Speaker 1: Punch at Katrina Norvel and Niki Etour at iHeart Podcasts. 667 00:43:30,560 --> 00:43:33,080 Speaker 1: For photos and more details on the series, follow us 668 00:43:33,080 --> 00:43:36,440 Speaker 1: on Instagram at Rococo Punch and you can reach out 669 00:43:36,520 --> 00:43:42,200 Speaker 1: via email The Turning at Rococo Punch dot com. I'm 670 00:43:42,320 --> 00:43:44,320 Speaker 1: Erica Lance. Thanks for listening.