1 00:00:00,080 --> 00:00:01,599 Speaker 1: Hey, guys, Saga and Crystal here. 2 00:00:01,680 --> 00:00:05,200 Speaker 2: Independent media just played a truly massive role in this election, 3 00:00:05,360 --> 00:00:07,840 Speaker 2: and we are so excited about what that means for 4 00:00:07,880 --> 00:00:08,720 Speaker 2: the future of the show. 5 00:00:08,880 --> 00:00:10,719 Speaker 1: This is the only place where you can find honest 6 00:00:10,760 --> 00:00:13,280 Speaker 1: perspectives from the left and the right that simply does 7 00:00:13,320 --> 00:00:14,680 Speaker 1: not exist anywhere else. 8 00:00:14,760 --> 00:00:17,080 Speaker 2: So if that is something that's important to you, please 9 00:00:17,120 --> 00:00:19,599 Speaker 2: go to Breakingpoints dot com. Become a member today and 10 00:00:19,640 --> 00:00:22,800 Speaker 2: you'll get access to our full shows, unedited, ad free, 11 00:00:22,800 --> 00:00:25,600 Speaker 2: and all put together for you every morning in your inbox. 12 00:00:25,680 --> 00:00:27,560 Speaker 1: We need your help to build the future of independent 13 00:00:27,560 --> 00:00:29,920 Speaker 1: news media and we hope to see you at Breakingpoints 14 00:00:29,960 --> 00:00:34,680 Speaker 1: dot com. Let's get to the next part, shall we, 15 00:00:35,000 --> 00:00:38,920 Speaker 1: MAGA and what does it all mean? So Laura Lumer 16 00:00:39,120 --> 00:00:41,879 Speaker 1: out with any interesting new take, which you know she 17 00:00:41,960 --> 00:00:43,720 Speaker 1: may be right, so let's put it up there on 18 00:00:43,760 --> 00:00:46,199 Speaker 1: the screen. Here's what she had to say. Quote, I 19 00:00:46,280 --> 00:00:49,120 Speaker 1: don't think the GOP is going to survive post Trump. 20 00:00:49,360 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: There's too many conflicting personalities trying to jockey for the 21 00:00:52,240 --> 00:00:54,640 Speaker 1: mantles to MAGA. None of them have what it takes 22 00:00:54,640 --> 00:00:57,280 Speaker 1: to be Trump's successor. We are witnessing the end of 23 00:00:57,320 --> 00:01:00,600 Speaker 1: a future post MAGA. Movement as we know it. Because 24 00:01:00,640 --> 00:01:04,240 Speaker 1: everyone quote inside the Big tenth, the GOP forced on us, 25 00:01:04,440 --> 00:01:06,800 Speaker 1: realizes that they hate each other. There won't be a 26 00:01:06,920 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 1: viable political movement post Maga. You can see the writing 27 00:01:09,959 --> 00:01:14,120 Speaker 1: on the wall. Nobody has what it takes. So, you know, 28 00:01:14,840 --> 00:01:17,400 Speaker 1: I think she's right. I actually think she's one hundred 29 00:01:17,440 --> 00:01:21,720 Speaker 1: percent right, because Trump is the most beloved figure in 30 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:24,640 Speaker 1: the Republican Party since Ronald Reagan. Now, by the way 31 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:28,600 Speaker 1: this does let's explain and define terms. Does that mean 32 00:01:28,600 --> 00:01:30,880 Speaker 1: that the Republicans will not win a future election. No, 33 00:01:31,360 --> 00:01:34,399 Speaker 1: what she's saying is that GOP as it's currently constitute 34 00:01:34,480 --> 00:01:36,759 Speaker 1: is not going to survive post Trump. I think that's accurate. 35 00:01:36,959 --> 00:01:40,440 Speaker 1: And the reason why is his personality is the binding 36 00:01:40,520 --> 00:01:44,640 Speaker 1: glue of everything. It's what keeps anti Israel and pro 37 00:01:44,720 --> 00:01:48,520 Speaker 1: Israel folks fanatically pro Trump who put their trust in 38 00:01:48,600 --> 00:01:51,960 Speaker 1: the personality. It's what keeps I don't even know, like 39 00:01:52,000 --> 00:01:55,800 Speaker 1: people who are pro Steve Bannon want to raise taxes 40 00:01:55,800 --> 00:01:59,440 Speaker 1: on the rich, with people who like Ron Johnson who 41 00:01:59,480 --> 00:02:01,760 Speaker 1: want to the corporate tax and don't want to stop 42 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:06,360 Speaker 1: stock trade banning. It's like the singularity of his personality. 43 00:02:06,400 --> 00:02:08,639 Speaker 1: Ma oh my God, Yeah, Ma's going to exist in 44 00:02:08,680 --> 00:02:11,880 Speaker 1: the same party as Lindsey Graham, you know in the FIUD. No, 45 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,760 Speaker 1: it's not happening. So it's his personality and his love 46 00:02:16,000 --> 00:02:18,920 Speaker 1: with the base, which is what Keena keeps it all together. 47 00:02:19,000 --> 00:02:22,480 Speaker 1: It's genuine occult of personality. And I actually think that's 48 00:02:22,480 --> 00:02:25,959 Speaker 1: why Lumer is the most accurate in her explanation of Trump. 49 00:02:26,040 --> 00:02:28,280 Speaker 1: Isn't because it's all about him. No, I'm not some 50 00:02:28,400 --> 00:02:31,040 Speaker 1: supporter or whatever of Laura Lumer. I thought she what 51 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,320 Speaker 1: she did if the name prosad was disgusting. But my 52 00:02:33,440 --> 00:02:36,440 Speaker 1: point is just that at a political level, I do 53 00:02:36,480 --> 00:02:40,839 Speaker 1: think she's correct. It's also why whoever comes next, you're 54 00:02:40,840 --> 00:02:42,799 Speaker 1: just gonna have a hell of a time because at 55 00:02:42,800 --> 00:02:45,520 Speaker 1: a personality level, it's just like George H. W. Bush. 56 00:02:45,560 --> 00:02:48,640 Speaker 1: Did he successfully ride Reagan's coattails to the ninety two 57 00:02:48,760 --> 00:02:52,200 Speaker 1: or the eighty eight election? Sure, but he got blown 58 00:02:52,200 --> 00:02:54,880 Speaker 1: out in ninety two. He didn't have the same personality, 59 00:02:54,880 --> 00:02:57,320 Speaker 1: the same connection Trump is Reagan asking in terms of 60 00:02:57,360 --> 00:02:59,960 Speaker 1: his love with the base. And also, let's think of 61 00:03:00,000 --> 00:03:01,960 Speaker 1: about what it took for the GOP to have to 62 00:03:01,960 --> 00:03:04,799 Speaker 1: come back in the year two thousand. It was eight 63 00:03:04,880 --> 00:03:07,440 Speaker 1: years in the Doldrums. A lot of it was defined 64 00:03:07,480 --> 00:03:10,840 Speaker 1: by opposition to Clinton, you bear, I mean, you could 65 00:03:10,960 --> 00:03:12,800 Speaker 1: define whether you won the election or not, you know, 66 00:03:12,840 --> 00:03:15,400 Speaker 1: in two thousand, but you know, it came damn close 67 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:18,800 Speaker 1: for an electoral thing, and it took nine to eleven 68 00:03:18,960 --> 00:03:21,160 Speaker 1: and I rock for you to win the popular vote 69 00:03:21,400 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: in two thousand. It took a long time. And then 70 00:03:23,320 --> 00:03:26,920 Speaker 1: posts after that it took twenty years to win the 71 00:03:26,919 --> 00:03:29,040 Speaker 1: popular vote again. So I think we are in a 72 00:03:29,040 --> 00:03:32,400 Speaker 1: similar kind of turning point where you know, in the 73 00:03:32,480 --> 00:03:36,360 Speaker 1: next administration, MTG is not going to have to couch 74 00:03:36,400 --> 00:03:39,000 Speaker 1: every single criticism but I love Trump. She's just going 75 00:03:39,080 --> 00:03:41,000 Speaker 1: to be like, here's what I think, yeah, and screw 76 00:03:41,080 --> 00:03:43,480 Speaker 1: the current president. A lot of people did that under Bush. 77 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:45,840 Speaker 1: Nobody ever had that level of support with the base. 78 00:03:46,080 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 2: I think the closest equivalent on the Democratic side, which 79 00:03:49,440 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 2: has some lessons, is Obama, right, And there was a 80 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:55,200 Speaker 2: lot of Democratic triumphalism, the coalition of the assign And 81 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 2: you know, there was an assumption that this Obama coalition 82 00:03:58,240 --> 00:04:00,680 Speaker 2: was something that was durable, right, that it wasn't just 83 00:04:00,680 --> 00:04:04,800 Speaker 2: specific to him and his particular like charming charisma and 84 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 2: his story and all of whatever that entailed for people, 85 00:04:08,120 --> 00:04:11,320 Speaker 2: and that was just not true. You know, the Obama 86 00:04:11,320 --> 00:04:13,400 Speaker 2: cole that he was the only person who could put 87 00:04:13,400 --> 00:04:15,760 Speaker 2: together the Obama coal issue, was very good at getting 88 00:04:15,800 --> 00:04:19,800 Speaker 2: himself elected, not so good at you know, getting other Democrats, 89 00:04:19,839 --> 00:04:22,280 Speaker 2: especially in off years elected, and certainly wasn't able to 90 00:04:22,320 --> 00:04:25,799 Speaker 2: handle hand his mantle even one election forward, and Hillary 91 00:04:25,800 --> 00:04:29,640 Speaker 2: Clinton is ultimately defeated by Donald Trump. And then you know, 92 00:04:30,440 --> 00:04:33,240 Speaker 2: to your point about does that did that mean the Democratic. 93 00:04:32,800 --> 00:04:34,159 Speaker 3: Party never won an election again? 94 00:04:34,200 --> 00:04:34,800 Speaker 1: No, of course not. 95 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:38,960 Speaker 2: Joe Biden gets elected, but that has not stopped the 96 00:04:39,000 --> 00:04:43,760 Speaker 2: overall sort of deterioration of the Democratic Party position and 97 00:04:44,000 --> 00:04:47,160 Speaker 2: put it in a potential doom spiral. Now, I think 98 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:49,760 Speaker 2: Trump is sort of like, in a sense, like rescuing 99 00:04:49,800 --> 00:04:52,000 Speaker 2: them from that. And there's a possibility that out of 100 00:04:52,040 --> 00:04:54,760 Speaker 2: that you actually get a you know, someone who is 101 00:04:54,800 --> 00:04:57,279 Speaker 2: more in the Zoraan mold, who has the charisman and 102 00:04:57,360 --> 00:04:59,640 Speaker 2: has a different type of politics and has some distance 103 00:04:59,680 --> 00:05:02,080 Speaker 2: from the the sins of the past, et cetera. That's 104 00:05:02,080 --> 00:05:04,159 Speaker 2: certainly a possibility at this point for rebirth for the 105 00:05:04,160 --> 00:05:06,800 Speaker 2: Democratic Party, though nothing is remotely guaranteed. 106 00:05:07,120 --> 00:05:08,440 Speaker 3: But I think it's very possible. 107 00:05:08,440 --> 00:05:15,080 Speaker 2: The Republicans are similarly overestimating how much that realignment that 108 00:05:15,120 --> 00:05:18,479 Speaker 2: they celebrate so much is truly durable outside of the 109 00:05:18,600 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 2: singular personality of Donald Trump. And you know, he like 110 00:05:24,000 --> 00:05:26,600 Speaker 2: whether it's Jamie Vance or Don Junior or whoever, or 111 00:05:26,640 --> 00:05:30,679 Speaker 2: Marco Rubio, whoever, it is that he tries to really 112 00:05:30,720 --> 00:05:33,920 Speaker 2: annoint as his successor. You know, I think he will 113 00:05:33,920 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 2: have about as much sway with the electorate in anointing 114 00:05:36,560 --> 00:05:38,320 Speaker 2: a successor as Barack Obama olts. 115 00:05:38,360 --> 00:05:40,839 Speaker 1: Whatly did you know? The Clinton example is a great one. 116 00:05:40,880 --> 00:05:43,680 Speaker 1: So why did al Gore fail in the two thousand election, where, 117 00:05:43,720 --> 00:05:45,359 Speaker 1: by the way, even if you think you want or whatever, 118 00:05:45,440 --> 00:05:47,640 Speaker 1: he only won by five hundred votes in the state 119 00:05:47,680 --> 00:05:50,640 Speaker 1: of Florida. It's a massive screw up compared to ninety six. 120 00:05:50,720 --> 00:05:52,919 Speaker 1: The ninety six to two thousand map is one of 121 00:05:52,920 --> 00:05:56,000 Speaker 1: the great one of the biggest sea changes in politics 122 00:05:56,000 --> 00:05:58,839 Speaker 1: that very few people go back, and they don't look 123 00:05:58,839 --> 00:06:02,040 Speaker 1: at it. They really ignore what happened. Well, the story 124 00:06:02,080 --> 00:06:05,320 Speaker 1: within that was that Clinton again his support was all 125 00:06:05,320 --> 00:06:09,040 Speaker 1: about Bubba like him and his talks. You know, folks 126 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,400 Speaker 1: see kind of way of connecting. But it wasn't built 127 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:14,680 Speaker 1: on anything like political message, and Gore tried to separate 128 00:06:14,760 --> 00:06:17,760 Speaker 1: himself from Lewinsky but also kind of embrace himself as 129 00:06:17,760 --> 00:06:20,520 Speaker 1: his like steady hand on the wheel. It almost worked. 130 00:06:20,800 --> 00:06:24,440 Speaker 1: But the point actually for whoever comes next is if 131 00:06:24,440 --> 00:06:28,200 Speaker 1: Trump is unpopular but very popular with the bass, you 132 00:06:28,240 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 1: cannot win your primary without wholly embracing him. This is 133 00:06:31,720 --> 00:06:34,680 Speaker 1: a huge problem because in oh wait, McCain did what 134 00:06:35,040 --> 00:06:37,560 Speaker 1: he was like, yeah, Bush, He's like the fuck off, Like, 135 00:06:37,600 --> 00:06:40,119 Speaker 1: don't ever campaign with me, sit in the White House. 136 00:06:40,400 --> 00:06:42,680 Speaker 1: I want nothing to do with you. And that was, 137 00:06:42,760 --> 00:06:44,839 Speaker 1: you know, to the extend he had any chance, it 138 00:06:44,960 --> 00:06:47,960 Speaker 1: was by able to draw some parallel away from Bush 139 00:06:48,000 --> 00:06:50,719 Speaker 1: and Bush he didn't mind, or maybe he did, but 140 00:06:50,839 --> 00:06:52,520 Speaker 1: you know, he didn't do anything about it. You think 141 00:06:52,520 --> 00:06:54,400 Speaker 1: Trump is going to tolerate that, right? I mean, what 142 00:06:54,440 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: are you gonna do. You're gonna have to kiss Trump's 143 00:06:56,120 --> 00:06:59,039 Speaker 1: ass all day long if you want to get yourself 144 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:01,280 Speaker 1: to win the prime. But then how do you win 145 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:04,919 Speaker 1: a general election. Something I've been thinking about is in 146 00:07:05,000 --> 00:07:09,360 Speaker 1: twenty seven I cannot wait to ask JD to be like, 147 00:07:09,560 --> 00:07:13,880 Speaker 1: hey man, you flamed Kamala for saying that you couldn't. 148 00:07:13,960 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 1: You couldn't had no difference between herself and Joe Biden. 149 00:07:18,360 --> 00:07:20,800 Speaker 1: So do you have any difference in how you would 150 00:07:20,800 --> 00:07:23,880 Speaker 1: have handled this presidency under Trump? He can't answer that, honestly, 151 00:07:23,960 --> 00:07:27,120 Speaker 1: we all know it. Okay, but that's a real problem. 152 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,320 Speaker 1: If Trump is at thirty five percent popularity but ninety 153 00:07:30,360 --> 00:07:33,840 Speaker 1: percent popularity with the GOP base, and you know that's 154 00:07:33,880 --> 00:07:36,400 Speaker 1: one where a Democrat you're not held by those chains. 155 00:07:36,560 --> 00:07:38,040 Speaker 1: You can just say whatever you want. There is no 156 00:07:38,160 --> 00:07:40,800 Speaker 1: leader of the Democratic Party you can win the damn primary. 157 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 1: And so you've got all of these forces which are 158 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,480 Speaker 1: built on his own personality. And also, look if as 159 00:07:47,480 --> 00:07:50,880 Speaker 1: long as he's alive, he will remain the tweeter in chief. 160 00:07:51,080 --> 00:07:53,000 Speaker 1: It doesn't matter you think he's going to give up 161 00:07:53,000 --> 00:07:55,240 Speaker 1: the reins. When he's not president, he will be the 162 00:07:55,280 --> 00:07:58,240 Speaker 1: mongol king in mar A Lago who summons whoever the 163 00:07:58,280 --> 00:08:01,200 Speaker 1: Republican is down there yea on month. And because if 164 00:08:01,240 --> 00:08:03,240 Speaker 1: they want something to be done, Trump has got to 165 00:08:03,240 --> 00:08:05,840 Speaker 1: support it. So it's not George W. Bush who's sales 166 00:08:05,960 --> 00:08:08,720 Speaker 1: you know, does his paintings and goes to Rangers games 167 00:08:08,760 --> 00:08:11,600 Speaker 1: like you think Trump will abide by the presidential norms 168 00:08:11,920 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: of pros presidency. He's gonna be tweeting up until the 169 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,880 Speaker 1: day he dies. So there's a lot of personality problems 170 00:08:18,000 --> 00:08:21,120 Speaker 1: that are built into this that just never have existed 171 00:08:21,440 --> 00:08:24,080 Speaker 1: in mid I mean, maybe Theodore Roosevelt is the best 172 00:08:24,080 --> 00:08:27,720 Speaker 1: example of a president who served two ish terms, you know, 173 00:08:27,840 --> 00:08:29,520 Speaker 1: and then kind of tried to come back, and he 174 00:08:29,680 --> 00:08:33,440 Speaker 1: did nuke at Taft in the election, So that could be, 175 00:08:33,840 --> 00:08:36,760 Speaker 1: you know, the scenario that we see in the future. 176 00:08:36,840 --> 00:08:39,040 Speaker 1: But I just see bad roads ahead, you know for 177 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:42,720 Speaker 1: the GOP because of that personality base thing, and how 178 00:08:42,800 --> 00:08:46,200 Speaker 1: are you going to run, you know, and establish yourself 179 00:08:46,200 --> 00:08:49,640 Speaker 1: as something new unless you really are on a massive 180 00:08:49,720 --> 00:08:52,600 Speaker 1: high water mark like the Reagan administration wasn't eighty nine. 181 00:08:52,800 --> 00:08:55,200 Speaker 1: I'm not so sure that's going to happen. We're still 182 00:08:55,200 --> 00:08:57,160 Speaker 1: three and a half years away. Nobody really knows well. 183 00:08:57,160 --> 00:08:59,400 Speaker 2: And you can also see it kind of coming apart 184 00:08:59,400 --> 00:09:02,240 Speaker 2: in real time with all of this factional infighting that 185 00:09:02,360 --> 00:09:04,520 Speaker 2: is broken out and Laura Lum's at the center. I 186 00:09:04,559 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 2: think you're absolutely right that she understands. This is the 187 00:09:07,400 --> 00:09:09,000 Speaker 2: reason why she comes to the White House and has 188 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,480 Speaker 2: an influence she does because she gets it. This is 189 00:09:11,520 --> 00:09:13,720 Speaker 2: not about anything other than Donald Trump and the person 190 00:09:13,720 --> 00:09:15,640 Speaker 2: of Donald Trump and loyalty to Donald Trump and whatever 191 00:09:15,640 --> 00:09:18,120 Speaker 2: Donald Trump says like that is the end all be all. 192 00:09:18,520 --> 00:09:21,480 Speaker 2: She understands that, and that's the game she plays, and 193 00:09:21,520 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 2: that's why she has been able to position herself so 194 00:09:24,160 --> 00:09:28,040 Speaker 2: effectively in this administration. But you've got you've got her 195 00:09:28,080 --> 00:09:30,640 Speaker 2: fighting with EMPTG. We'll give you some of those details 196 00:09:30,679 --> 00:09:33,280 Speaker 2: one a minute. You've got the influencer wars with you know, 197 00:09:33,400 --> 00:09:37,560 Speaker 2: Candace versus Fuintes, Fuentez versus Tucker, and you know, fwints 198 00:09:37,640 --> 00:09:38,240 Speaker 2: is really serving. 199 00:09:38,400 --> 00:09:39,920 Speaker 3: I see so much, so many. 200 00:09:39,760 --> 00:09:43,320 Speaker 2: Parallels with like the left after Bernie's defeat in twenty twenty, 201 00:09:43,640 --> 00:09:46,360 Speaker 2: where there's the sense of nihilism that takes hold. Where 202 00:09:46,400 --> 00:09:49,480 Speaker 2: you've got Jimmy Door out there, you know, as the 203 00:09:50,400 --> 00:09:54,680 Speaker 2: you know, the purest of the pure. And it's a 204 00:09:55,000 --> 00:09:58,199 Speaker 2: very similar kind of a dynamic that you see unfolding 205 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:02,200 Speaker 2: of all this like bitter acrimon any personality conflicts. And 206 00:10:02,240 --> 00:10:05,600 Speaker 2: then you also have some like substantive you have vast 207 00:10:05,679 --> 00:10:09,440 Speaker 2: actually substantive policy differences between a number of these camps 208 00:10:09,480 --> 00:10:13,760 Speaker 2: as well. But MTG and Laura Lumer have been fighting 209 00:10:13,960 --> 00:10:19,120 Speaker 2: in a way that only the Maga ladies can. 210 00:10:18,440 --> 00:10:19,000 Speaker 3: Go at it. 211 00:10:19,000 --> 00:10:23,880 Speaker 2: It really is a particular brand of messiness at new levels. 212 00:10:24,559 --> 00:10:27,080 Speaker 2: We can put this up on the screen some of 213 00:10:27,120 --> 00:10:30,280 Speaker 2: these quotes, so this is from a daily beast rundown 214 00:10:30,280 --> 00:10:32,400 Speaker 2: of all of this. The headline is fuming Lumer goes 215 00:10:32,480 --> 00:10:34,880 Speaker 2: nuclear on EMPTG and all night attack. The far right 216 00:10:35,400 --> 00:10:39,720 Speaker 2: provocateur has gone after her fellow Maga Republican representative Margie 217 00:10:39,760 --> 00:10:42,880 Speaker 2: Cheryler Green with a level of vitriol that is striking 218 00:10:43,000 --> 00:10:46,720 Speaker 2: even by Lumer standards, calling the lawmaker a rabid dog 219 00:10:46,840 --> 00:10:51,320 Speaker 2: and a lying, fake Christian horr. In part, she said, 220 00:10:51,720 --> 00:10:54,680 Speaker 2: this is a woman who allowed her sexual impulses to 221 00:10:54,720 --> 00:10:57,120 Speaker 2: tear her family apart. She wants to now tear our 222 00:10:57,160 --> 00:11:00,280 Speaker 2: country apart to try to steal Trump's movement away from him. 223 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:03,480 Speaker 2: Don't let this home wrecker become a country home wrecker. 224 00:11:03,800 --> 00:11:05,439 Speaker 2: We can put the next piece up on the screen, 225 00:11:05,480 --> 00:11:08,600 Speaker 2: a little bit from MTG. She says she has no 226 00:11:08,760 --> 00:11:11,320 Speaker 2: about Lumur, She has no long time relationships because she 227 00:11:11,360 --> 00:11:14,360 Speaker 2: psychotically turns on everyone. Laura Lumer is the most unstable 228 00:11:14,400 --> 00:11:17,040 Speaker 2: person in worst liability to ever walk of the Oval office. 229 00:11:17,200 --> 00:11:19,439 Speaker 2: Fighting began, they say, after Lumor stunned some of her 230 00:11:19,440 --> 00:11:22,520 Speaker 2: own supporters by ranting against the military's decision to celebrate 231 00:11:22,760 --> 00:11:23,520 Speaker 2: a Medal. 232 00:11:23,240 --> 00:11:24,400 Speaker 3: Of Honor recipient. 233 00:11:25,440 --> 00:11:27,960 Speaker 2: There is a lot more here, by the way, in 234 00:11:28,040 --> 00:11:31,359 Speaker 2: terms of the back and forth, was quite lengthy and extensive, 235 00:11:31,440 --> 00:11:35,040 Speaker 2: including Lumor accusing Green of getting bent over backwards inside 236 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:37,400 Speaker 2: the gym by every man who isn't your husband. So 237 00:11:37,480 --> 00:11:41,120 Speaker 2: that was the general tenor of this dispute. I believe 238 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:44,560 Speaker 2: this came after Lumer had said something about MTG's quote 239 00:11:44,600 --> 00:11:47,600 Speaker 2: unquote roast beef in her pants. So these times two 240 00:11:47,640 --> 00:11:51,840 Speaker 2: have a long time acrimonious relationship, Sager. But like I 241 00:11:51,840 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 2: said to me, it's just emblematic of a movement that 242 00:11:54,800 --> 00:11:58,000 Speaker 2: everybody's trying to jockey for a position. They see the 243 00:11:58,000 --> 00:12:00,600 Speaker 2: trump eras coming to an end, trying to get in 244 00:12:00,760 --> 00:12:02,960 Speaker 2: good with Trump. They're trying to shape what comes next. 245 00:12:03,200 --> 00:12:05,960 Speaker 2: They hate each other, and it's all kind of bubbling 246 00:12:06,000 --> 00:12:08,520 Speaker 2: to the surface in a way that we haven't really 247 00:12:08,559 --> 00:12:09,559 Speaker 2: seen in the past. 248 00:12:09,679 --> 00:12:11,760 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean I said this to you, and look, 249 00:12:11,920 --> 00:12:14,319 Speaker 1: I hope isn't taken two the wrong way. But as 250 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:18,480 Speaker 1: the parties switch up in terms of support based on 251 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,640 Speaker 1: education levels. It's not a surprise to see some of 252 00:12:21,679 --> 00:12:23,800 Speaker 1: this burst out into the open. 253 00:12:23,880 --> 00:12:26,280 Speaker 2: It's not exactly an elevated and classy dispute. 254 00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:29,600 Speaker 1: It's it's look, I mean, you know, if you take 255 00:12:29,600 --> 00:12:31,040 Speaker 1: a look fun to cover, if you look at the 256 00:12:31,120 --> 00:12:34,160 Speaker 1: ratings for the type of people who engage in reality 257 00:12:34,200 --> 00:12:37,680 Speaker 1: television and those type of personalities. I mean, actually, let's 258 00:12:37,679 --> 00:12:40,439 Speaker 1: think about it. One of the things that has happened 259 00:12:40,480 --> 00:12:43,040 Speaker 1: in the last you know, Trump realignment is that a 260 00:12:43,080 --> 00:12:48,079 Speaker 1: lot of reality TV stars, bodybuilders like people and all that, 261 00:12:48,160 --> 00:12:51,720 Speaker 1: who are lesser educated but you know, also very popular, 262 00:12:52,000 --> 00:12:54,560 Speaker 1: have become Trump supporters. So it would make quite a 263 00:12:54,559 --> 00:12:56,920 Speaker 1: bit of sense that that behavior, of course, and Trump 264 00:12:56,960 --> 00:12:59,880 Speaker 1: cabin members you're right with WWE and you know, you 265 00:13:00,280 --> 00:13:03,120 Speaker 1: see everything that's all Republican now. So well, if that's 266 00:13:03,120 --> 00:13:06,280 Speaker 1: the case, and that behavior is going to replicate itself, 267 00:13:06,520 --> 00:13:08,719 Speaker 1: it's funny because it's at a demographic level. There's a 268 00:13:08,840 --> 00:13:11,880 Speaker 1: viral thing going around right now of one of the 269 00:13:11,960 --> 00:13:15,520 Speaker 1: richest neighborhoods in Illinois was are It was a Republican 270 00:13:15,559 --> 00:13:18,520 Speaker 1: district in twenty twelve and it's now D plus thirty five, 271 00:13:18,840 --> 00:13:20,960 Speaker 1: and like that's the story of America, right, like A 272 00:13:21,000 --> 00:13:23,280 Speaker 1: twenty twelve I think it's called win It. 273 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:23,920 Speaker 4: I don't know. 274 00:13:23,960 --> 00:13:26,120 Speaker 1: I'm not from Illinois, but anyway, one of the wealthyes 275 00:13:26,160 --> 00:13:29,920 Speaker 1: neighborhoods in Illinois voted from it Romney by overwhelming margins, 276 00:13:30,160 --> 00:13:33,439 Speaker 1: voted for Kamala by thirty five points. Yeah, and it's like, well, 277 00:13:33,559 --> 00:13:35,840 Speaker 1: you know, those are the type of people who find 278 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:38,080 Speaker 1: a lot of this stuff very distasteful. But the people 279 00:13:38,080 --> 00:13:41,280 Speaker 1: who find it hilarious and interesting drama, et cetera. That's 280 00:13:41,360 --> 00:13:43,960 Speaker 1: reality TV. That's the demographic. A lot of those people 281 00:13:44,000 --> 00:13:45,840 Speaker 1: are Republican now, so you're going to see it replicated 282 00:13:45,840 --> 00:13:48,200 Speaker 1: in this politics. And I think that's a very polite 283 00:13:48,240 --> 00:13:55,520 Speaker 1: way of saying trashy Anna Paulina Luna on The Joe 284 00:13:55,559 --> 00:13:58,840 Speaker 1: Rogan Experience, very interesting episode. I actually recommend people go 285 00:13:59,040 --> 00:14:01,280 Speaker 1: and listening to all of it. But Anna Paulina Luna, 286 00:14:01,280 --> 00:14:03,559 Speaker 1: one of the congressmen who has been at the spearhead 287 00:14:03,760 --> 00:14:07,400 Speaker 1: of a lot of the UFO UAP inquiries, some of 288 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:10,160 Speaker 1: the whistleblowers. She made some interesting claims around that that 289 00:14:10,200 --> 00:14:12,960 Speaker 1: I'm going to return to. But first and foremost, you 290 00:14:12,960 --> 00:14:15,079 Speaker 1: have a member of the United States Congress at the 291 00:14:15,120 --> 00:14:19,360 Speaker 1: forefront on the UFO issue, making some absolutely extraordinary claims 292 00:14:19,440 --> 00:14:22,320 Speaker 1: about things that she has seen. Now, claims are claims, 293 00:14:22,360 --> 00:14:24,080 Speaker 1: and we need to see evidence, but at the very 294 00:14:24,160 --> 00:14:25,920 Speaker 1: least we can take it for what it is. Let's 295 00:14:25,920 --> 00:14:26,440 Speaker 1: take a listen. 296 00:14:26,600 --> 00:14:28,920 Speaker 5: You said that you've seen evidence, Like, what kind of 297 00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:29,760 Speaker 5: evidence have you seen? 298 00:14:30,400 --> 00:14:32,480 Speaker 3: I have seen photos, I have. 299 00:14:32,640 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 5: Seen what have you seen photos of? 300 00:14:36,080 --> 00:14:39,200 Speaker 6: So I was in a skiff, and I can't discuss 301 00:14:39,240 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 6: all that was in a skiff, but what I can 302 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:42,640 Speaker 6: tell you is, based on the photos that I've seen, 303 00:14:42,720 --> 00:14:45,680 Speaker 6: I'm very confident that there's things out there that have 304 00:14:45,760 --> 00:14:46,920 Speaker 6: not been created by mad Kain. 305 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:53,720 Speaker 5: It seems crazy that people have access to information that 306 00:14:54,000 --> 00:14:57,560 Speaker 5: shows that there's something outside of us that is more intelligent, 307 00:14:57,600 --> 00:15:00,560 Speaker 5: at least more capable than we are. I did from 308 00:15:00,560 --> 00:15:01,160 Speaker 5: everybody else. 309 00:15:01,600 --> 00:15:04,120 Speaker 1: So let's just, you know, sit on that for a 310 00:15:04,120 --> 00:15:06,280 Speaker 1: little bit. Is that I've seen photos that I am 311 00:15:06,400 --> 00:15:08,000 Speaker 1: very confident that there are things that are out there 312 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:11,920 Speaker 1: that have not been created by mankind. This is allegedly 313 00:15:12,000 --> 00:15:15,000 Speaker 1: like in a classified setting, and I have been pushing 314 00:15:15,000 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: on this. It is so complicated because at the same 315 00:15:17,760 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 1: time she did claim that some of the whistleblowers who 316 00:15:20,480 --> 00:15:23,040 Speaker 1: we've spoken about here on this show, how they pretended 317 00:15:23,040 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: to have the flu before they were supposed to show 318 00:15:25,680 --> 00:15:27,960 Speaker 1: up for a briefing. Those people have now come out, 319 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:30,160 Speaker 1: at least one of them, lou Elizondo, and he's spoken 320 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:32,960 Speaker 1: about how that's not true. So there even seems to 321 00:15:32,960 --> 00:15:35,800 Speaker 1: be some interro fighting within this to the relating to 322 00:15:35,880 --> 00:15:38,720 Speaker 1: our previous block of messiness or whatever. And I'm not 323 00:15:38,880 --> 00:15:42,400 Speaker 1: still quite sure exactly what's going on there. But at 324 00:15:42,440 --> 00:15:44,840 Speaker 1: the end of the day, what her Tim Burchett and 325 00:15:44,840 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: a few other members of Congress were pushing for were 326 00:15:47,080 --> 00:15:49,520 Speaker 1: some of these briefings, photos and other things that are 327 00:15:49,520 --> 00:15:51,960 Speaker 1: said to exist. The difficulty on this is we have 328 00:15:52,040 --> 00:15:54,960 Speaker 1: been hearing this now for White sometime for years and right, 329 00:15:55,320 --> 00:15:57,200 Speaker 1: how many times do I say here on the show, 330 00:15:57,240 --> 00:16:00,400 Speaker 1: and it's becoming exhausting for people to say that people 331 00:16:00,440 --> 00:16:03,520 Speaker 1: who have seen classified images of this or that have 332 00:16:03,720 --> 00:16:07,000 Speaker 1: not yet been able to see actually something tangible. I 333 00:16:07,040 --> 00:16:10,120 Speaker 1: will say on Luna's record her attacks on the whistleblowers, 334 00:16:10,160 --> 00:16:14,200 Speaker 1: notwithstanding on JFK, she's been solid. Don't take it from me, 335 00:16:14,520 --> 00:16:16,760 Speaker 1: Take it from Jefferson Morley, who we've had here on 336 00:16:16,800 --> 00:16:19,280 Speaker 1: the show who I trust absolutely and totally on the 337 00:16:19,360 --> 00:16:22,000 Speaker 1: JFK issue, and he said that she very seriously has 338 00:16:22,040 --> 00:16:24,640 Speaker 1: been working with him and others in order to get 339 00:16:24,680 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 1: the files out. They invited him to testify. He worked, 340 00:16:28,120 --> 00:16:30,440 Speaker 1: I believe with her office, and it's some stuff behind 341 00:16:30,440 --> 00:16:33,520 Speaker 1: the scenes which allowed to get deep classification or release 342 00:16:33,760 --> 00:16:36,000 Speaker 1: and broadly saw that inquiry a s seria. So if 343 00:16:36,040 --> 00:16:38,480 Speaker 1: we take that together with the UFO issue, I'll say 344 00:16:38,520 --> 00:16:41,160 Speaker 1: there's some implicit trust at least on the track record. 345 00:16:41,280 --> 00:16:43,680 Speaker 1: But it's been a long time since the UFO hearing. 346 00:16:43,800 --> 00:16:45,960 Speaker 1: We're gonna need to have another one. And but by 347 00:16:46,000 --> 00:16:48,200 Speaker 1: and large, it's like, just release it at this point. 348 00:16:48,440 --> 00:16:50,480 Speaker 1: And is it? I mean, maybe it's like Epstein, It 349 00:16:50,680 --> 00:16:54,640 Speaker 1: just it exists. It can't be released. It's hidden. JD 350 00:16:54,720 --> 00:16:57,520 Speaker 1: has said that he's quote working or whatever on the issue. 351 00:16:58,480 --> 00:17:00,680 Speaker 1: Maybe Trump is a file. I mean, do you want 352 00:17:00,680 --> 00:17:04,359 Speaker 1: to know The best presidential theory on UFOs is that 353 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:07,439 Speaker 1: Eisenhower had a summit with the aliens in nineteen This 354 00:17:07,480 --> 00:17:09,680 Speaker 1: is serious, I'm not kidding. Is that he had a 355 00:17:09,720 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: summit with the aliens. I believe he was in fifty six. 356 00:17:12,280 --> 00:17:14,720 Speaker 1: Over how we're going to manage Earth and alien relations. 357 00:17:14,960 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: That's a very serious, actually talk. I mean, look, I'd 358 00:17:18,040 --> 00:17:18,760 Speaker 1: like to say some more. 359 00:17:18,680 --> 00:17:22,919 Speaker 7: Evidence what I said, but on the UFO issue, very specifically, 360 00:17:23,480 --> 00:17:26,879 Speaker 7: as a believer in the phenomenon, I will say, at 361 00:17:26,960 --> 00:17:29,880 Speaker 7: least it is encouraging that she says that she said 362 00:17:29,960 --> 00:17:31,399 Speaker 7: these in a class fright hearing, because at the very 363 00:17:31,480 --> 00:17:32,920 Speaker 7: least it's a falsifiable claim. 364 00:17:32,960 --> 00:17:34,960 Speaker 1: What I want. That's why I loved when Dave Grush 365 00:17:34,960 --> 00:17:37,199 Speaker 1: went under oath. I'm like, we need more oath. We 366 00:17:37,240 --> 00:17:40,840 Speaker 1: need more stuff which is falsifiable or not. No more illusions, 367 00:17:41,080 --> 00:17:44,399 Speaker 1: like she makes very specific claims, and specifically in this 368 00:17:44,520 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: next clip, she made claims which again we can prove 369 00:17:47,520 --> 00:17:50,560 Speaker 1: our false or not if the documentation is released. Let's 370 00:17:50,560 --> 00:17:51,080 Speaker 1: take a listen. 371 00:17:51,359 --> 00:17:54,399 Speaker 5: Do you think that it's possible that these are US 372 00:17:54,560 --> 00:17:56,000 Speaker 5: vehicles that are top secret? 373 00:17:56,520 --> 00:17:59,640 Speaker 6: I definitely think that there's a level of advanced technology 374 00:17:59,640 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 6: that the US government has, and I think that that 375 00:18:02,119 --> 00:18:05,080 Speaker 6: tech can be hased within the defense contract around realm. 376 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:07,200 Speaker 6: And of course some information is going to be classified. 377 00:18:07,240 --> 00:18:09,800 Speaker 6: But I can also tell you, and this might sound crazy, 378 00:18:09,880 --> 00:18:13,520 Speaker 6: but based on our investigations and stuff that we've seen, Okay, 379 00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:18,520 Speaker 6: there is definitely something that I think would rival what 380 00:18:18,560 --> 00:18:22,240 Speaker 6: we know currently with physics and a tech that potentially 381 00:18:22,320 --> 00:18:24,000 Speaker 6: is out there that we don't have the ability to 382 00:18:24,040 --> 00:18:27,440 Speaker 6: reproduce because it would basically be like dropping a cell 383 00:18:27,480 --> 00:18:31,000 Speaker 6: phone right off back during the time of maybe cavemands. 384 00:18:31,119 --> 00:18:32,679 Speaker 6: So like we just don't have the tech to develop 385 00:18:32,680 --> 00:18:34,760 Speaker 6: it yet. But there's definitely something that I can tell 386 00:18:34,760 --> 00:18:37,320 Speaker 6: you with confidence that exists that we don't know how 387 00:18:37,359 --> 00:18:38,280 Speaker 6: to explain currently. 388 00:18:38,760 --> 00:18:42,800 Speaker 5: So when you say that it operates outside our understanding 389 00:18:42,960 --> 00:18:47,320 Speaker 5: of physics, what specifically are you saying? Like what happened to. 390 00:18:48,560 --> 00:18:50,800 Speaker 6: I guess break it down in simple terms, is that 391 00:18:50,880 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 6: I think that some of the tech that exists that 392 00:18:54,280 --> 00:18:59,560 Speaker 6: whatever these things have, these energy things have, Yeah, well 393 00:18:59,600 --> 00:19:02,879 Speaker 6: they call the interdimensional beings. I think that they can 394 00:19:02,920 --> 00:19:05,919 Speaker 6: actually operate through the time spaces that we currently have. 395 00:19:06,040 --> 00:19:08,760 Speaker 6: It's really changing the way that we understand, you know, 396 00:19:08,880 --> 00:19:13,159 Speaker 6: the origins of life and the spiritual reality that we know. 397 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:17,280 Speaker 5: When you say interdimensional beings, that they know that these 398 00:19:17,280 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 5: are interdimensional beings? How do they know that that? 399 00:19:21,720 --> 00:19:26,560 Speaker 6: So based on testimony would be based on witnesses that 400 00:19:26,560 --> 00:19:28,600 Speaker 6: have come forward. But what I can tell you is 401 00:19:28,720 --> 00:19:32,679 Speaker 6: just know that they've that they've seen things. And what 402 00:19:32,720 --> 00:19:37,159 Speaker 6: I can tell you without getting into classified conversations, is 403 00:19:37,160 --> 00:19:43,359 Speaker 6: that there have been incidences that I believe where very 404 00:19:43,520 --> 00:19:47,920 Speaker 6: credible people have reported that there have been movement. 405 00:19:48,000 --> 00:19:51,399 Speaker 1: Outside of time and space that's very vague. 406 00:19:52,280 --> 00:19:56,959 Speaker 6: Yeah, so look, yeah, look, have I seen a portal? 407 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:57,280 Speaker 8: But no? 408 00:19:57,800 --> 00:20:02,400 Speaker 6: Have I seen a spaceship personally? Know I've seen evidence 409 00:20:02,400 --> 00:20:02,600 Speaker 6: of this. 410 00:20:02,920 --> 00:20:03,160 Speaker 1: Yes. 411 00:20:03,680 --> 00:20:09,119 Speaker 6: Have I seen photo documentation of aircraft that I believe 412 00:20:09,160 --> 00:20:10,720 Speaker 6: we're not made by mankind? 413 00:20:10,800 --> 00:20:11,040 Speaker 1: Yes? 414 00:20:12,160 --> 00:20:17,000 Speaker 6: Is there historical significance to this yes? Is there multiple 415 00:20:17,040 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 6: events that go back to I would argue maybe even 416 00:20:20,880 --> 00:20:23,639 Speaker 6: before the time of Christ, that have documented this in texts? 417 00:20:23,760 --> 00:20:24,000 Speaker 3: Yes? 418 00:20:24,440 --> 00:20:27,399 Speaker 6: So do I believe that the government has access to 419 00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:30,920 Speaker 6: certain technology, Yes, to an extent. And I believe that 420 00:20:31,000 --> 00:20:35,000 Speaker 6: certain contractors potentially have back engineered this tech. I think 421 00:20:35,040 --> 00:20:37,320 Speaker 6: that that's what can explain the advancements that we're seeing. 422 00:20:37,640 --> 00:20:39,639 Speaker 1: All Right, I mean, what do you think, Crystal. I 423 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:41,760 Speaker 1: know it sounds crazy at this point, we just got 424 00:20:41,760 --> 00:20:42,000 Speaker 1: to say. 425 00:20:42,040 --> 00:20:45,880 Speaker 2: That's my assumption until I see any sort of evidence, 426 00:20:46,000 --> 00:20:48,000 Speaker 2: is that this is bullshit and she's telling Rogan what 427 00:20:48,040 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 2: she wants to hear, I think, But that has to 428 00:20:50,560 --> 00:20:53,760 Speaker 2: be the default assumption if there's no evidence that's offered, 429 00:20:54,160 --> 00:20:58,159 Speaker 2: you had, like, these are wild, extraordinary claims that are 430 00:20:58,160 --> 00:21:01,040 Speaker 2: being made, so you better bring something other than like 431 00:21:01,240 --> 00:21:04,719 Speaker 2: you know, you heard from a witness theoretically and there 432 00:21:04,800 --> 00:21:06,720 Speaker 2: might be something, but you can't really say anything. 433 00:21:06,800 --> 00:21:09,399 Speaker 1: I am getting sick of I have seen it, like 434 00:21:09,920 --> 00:21:13,200 Speaker 1: you know, former Undersecretary of Defense coming on me, like 435 00:21:13,240 --> 00:21:15,240 Speaker 1: I've seen that there's an extraordinary video. I've heard this 436 00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:17,840 Speaker 1: now for probably five six years, right about this video 437 00:21:17,880 --> 00:21:20,679 Speaker 1: that allegedly exists on a UFO passing in between two 438 00:21:20,760 --> 00:21:24,840 Speaker 1: fighter aircraft and the two pilots absolutely freak out at 439 00:21:24,840 --> 00:21:26,960 Speaker 1: the level of speed, you know, very similar to the original. 440 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:28,239 Speaker 3: You could do sick of it. 441 00:21:28,320 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, And I think that's the default at this point 442 00:21:31,560 --> 00:21:35,200 Speaker 1: because we just have yet. We have heard so many promises, 443 00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,880 Speaker 1: so much slowering from the bureaucracy, from the Pentagon. We've 444 00:21:39,880 --> 00:21:43,400 Speaker 1: seen so many claims like this. Luna, by the way, 445 00:21:43,400 --> 00:21:45,720 Speaker 1: here is not testifying under oath, which Grush, to his credit, 446 00:21:45,840 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: actually did. And what's important and also here about the 447 00:21:48,680 --> 00:21:51,800 Speaker 1: contextualization of what she's saying is I've seen claims from 448 00:21:51,840 --> 00:21:54,159 Speaker 1: people who said they've experienced it. That fits actually with the 449 00:21:54,200 --> 00:21:56,880 Speaker 1: original Grush testimony before Congress where he was talking because 450 00:21:56,880 --> 00:21:59,400 Speaker 1: remember his goal was to compile all of the information 451 00:21:59,440 --> 00:22:01,440 Speaker 1: of the reports, and that's eventually what led to his 452 00:22:01,480 --> 00:22:04,520 Speaker 1: whistleblower report. We at just this point have got to 453 00:22:04,560 --> 00:22:07,320 Speaker 1: see like some release or some sort of evidence. And 454 00:22:07,320 --> 00:22:10,000 Speaker 1: it's also disappointing, I would say, for her to, you know, 455 00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:13,120 Speaker 1: imply like that they were not credible, but then also 456 00:22:13,160 --> 00:22:16,600 Speaker 1: at this point taking some of their words seriously, and 457 00:22:16,680 --> 00:22:19,920 Speaker 1: so at this point we really are I think it's 458 00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,679 Speaker 1: kind of make or break where it either has to 459 00:22:22,720 --> 00:22:25,840 Speaker 1: come out or a lot of the trust is just 460 00:22:25,880 --> 00:22:28,040 Speaker 1: going to be killed forever. Yeah, because we've seen so 461 00:22:28,200 --> 00:22:31,160 Speaker 1: much of this like winking and nodding. It's chock Epstein. 462 00:22:31,200 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: It's the similar thing, it's the exact same thing. They 463 00:22:33,560 --> 00:22:35,479 Speaker 1: come out, they say they're going to do it, and 464 00:22:35,520 --> 00:22:39,199 Speaker 1: then they basically show a complete and a total cover up. 465 00:22:39,440 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 1: The cover up is enough for people to think that 466 00:22:41,640 --> 00:22:43,080 Speaker 1: there is a there there, and of course I do 467 00:22:43,160 --> 00:22:45,520 Speaker 1: believe that there is certainly a there there, but I 468 00:22:45,600 --> 00:22:48,320 Speaker 1: am getting sick of a lot of these people at 469 00:22:48,320 --> 00:22:50,320 Speaker 1: this point. It seems like she's using it to try 470 00:22:50,359 --> 00:22:52,640 Speaker 1: and get you know, people while guys are talking about it, 471 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:56,479 Speaker 1: but release and do something like she did with JFK. 472 00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,200 Speaker 1: Or I just don't want to hear about it anymore 473 00:22:59,240 --> 00:23:01,840 Speaker 1: from you. I would be better off not hearing it 474 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:03,679 Speaker 1: than to, you know, get your hopes up and to 475 00:23:03,680 --> 00:23:05,240 Speaker 1: get crushed like over and over again. 476 00:23:05,359 --> 00:23:07,919 Speaker 3: Yeah, and you know, Trump made it quite explicit. 477 00:23:08,040 --> 00:23:10,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, he's made a big deal about this, so RFK. 478 00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:11,560 Speaker 1: You remember when he was on our show and I 479 00:23:11,560 --> 00:23:13,639 Speaker 1: asked him about it multiple times and he's claimed to 480 00:23:13,680 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: have a briefing about it but hasn't said anything. 481 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:15,880 Speaker 6: Yeah. 482 00:23:15,960 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 3: No, that's a great point too. 483 00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:20,359 Speaker 2: And even imber Trump specifically talking about the drones and 484 00:23:20,359 --> 00:23:22,080 Speaker 2: how he's going to reveal everything when he gets in 485 00:23:22,080 --> 00:23:23,920 Speaker 2: and it's like okay, and then he comes out, he's 486 00:23:23,960 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 2: just like, it's nothing to worry about, Like I can 487 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:28,160 Speaker 2: tell you I know what it is. Yeah, and it's 488 00:23:28,160 --> 00:23:32,080 Speaker 2: nothing you should worry about. Oh okay, this is the transparency. Thanks, 489 00:23:33,080 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 2: this is great. 490 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:36,080 Speaker 3: Thanks. So I guess that's just I just sort of. 491 00:23:36,119 --> 00:23:38,240 Speaker 2: Roll my eyes at this stuff until I get something 492 00:23:38,280 --> 00:23:39,000 Speaker 2: more concrete. 493 00:23:39,200 --> 00:23:41,200 Speaker 1: I think that's fair. I think it's a normal reaction 494 00:23:41,359 --> 00:23:43,600 Speaker 1: now at this point, like I said, I would hope 495 00:23:43,640 --> 00:23:45,719 Speaker 1: that this is a precursor to actually something in the 496 00:23:45,720 --> 00:23:49,360 Speaker 1: future like she's done with JFK. But otherwise, ma'am, we're 497 00:23:49,400 --> 00:23:51,720 Speaker 1: sick of hearing just claims. We will actually want to 498 00:23:51,760 --> 00:23:54,000 Speaker 1: see evidence in some disclosure. So with that we have 499 00:23:54,040 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: great guest standing by Dave DeCamp. Let's get to it. 500 00:23:59,080 --> 00:24:02,720 Speaker 2: There have been some troubling signs coming out from the 501 00:24:02,720 --> 00:24:06,320 Speaker 2: Prime Minister of Israel, Benjamin Natyaho, about a potential return 502 00:24:06,440 --> 00:24:09,439 Speaker 2: to war with Iran. So to break down where we 503 00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:11,400 Speaker 2: are very happy to be joined by Dave de Camp. 504 00:24:11,600 --> 00:24:14,320 Speaker 3: He is the news editor of the great website. 505 00:24:13,960 --> 00:24:16,520 Speaker 2: Anti war dot com and also host of anti War 506 00:24:16,680 --> 00:24:17,680 Speaker 2: News with Dave DeCamp. 507 00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:18,840 Speaker 1: Welcome, good to see. 508 00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:21,760 Speaker 4: You man, Thanks for having me. I appreciate it, of course. 509 00:24:21,760 --> 00:24:24,480 Speaker 2: So let me go ahead and start by playing Natnyaho 510 00:24:24,640 --> 00:24:27,960 Speaker 2: in his own words an English language for some reason, 511 00:24:28,320 --> 00:24:30,159 Speaker 2: appeal to the people of Iran. 512 00:24:30,280 --> 00:24:31,680 Speaker 3: Let's go ahead and take a listen to a bit. 513 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:34,120 Speaker 8: Of this today. I'm going to make an unprecedented offer 514 00:24:34,160 --> 00:24:38,239 Speaker 8: to Iran. It relates to water. The Iranian people are 515 00:24:38,320 --> 00:24:41,879 Speaker 8: victims of a cruel and tyrannical regime that denies them 516 00:24:41,960 --> 00:24:45,600 Speaker 8: vital water. Israel stands with the people of Iran, and 517 00:24:45,640 --> 00:24:48,600 Speaker 8: that is why I want to help save countless Uranian lives. 518 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:54,080 Speaker 8: Here's how Iran's Meteorological Organization says that nearly ninety six 519 00:24:54,119 --> 00:24:59,080 Speaker 8: percent of Iran suffers from some levels of drought. Isa Kalentari, 520 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:04,160 Speaker 8: a former agriculture minister, said that fifty million Iranians could 521 00:25:04,200 --> 00:25:07,320 Speaker 8: be forced out of their homes due to environmental damage. 522 00:25:07,480 --> 00:25:13,400 Speaker 8: Fifty million millions of Iranian children are suffering due to mismanagement, 523 00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,520 Speaker 8: to incompetence in the theft of vital resources by the 524 00:25:16,520 --> 00:25:21,240 Speaker 8: Iranian regime. Now, Israel also has water challenges. We've developed 525 00:25:21,240 --> 00:25:25,679 Speaker 8: cutting edge technologies to address them. Israel recycles nearly ninety 526 00:25:25,720 --> 00:25:28,600 Speaker 8: percent of its wastewater. That's far more than any other 527 00:25:28,600 --> 00:25:32,880 Speaker 8: country on Earth. We invented drip irrigation. Our technology targets 528 00:25:33,080 --> 00:25:37,840 Speaker 8: individual plants with exactly the nutrients they need for each plant. 529 00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,760 Speaker 8: Israel has to know how to prevent environmental catastrophe in Iran. 530 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,440 Speaker 8: I want to share this information with the people of Iran. Sadly, 531 00:25:46,600 --> 00:25:49,879 Speaker 8: Iran bans as reellies from visiting, so we'll have to 532 00:25:49,880 --> 00:25:53,680 Speaker 8: get creative. We will launch a Farsi website with detailed 533 00:25:53,720 --> 00:25:57,240 Speaker 8: plans on how Uranians can recycle their wastewater. The Iranian 534 00:25:57,280 --> 00:26:02,040 Speaker 8: regime shouts death to Israel in response Israel Shad's life 535 00:26:02,560 --> 00:26:06,080 Speaker 8: to the Iranian people. The people of Iran are good 536 00:26:06,119 --> 00:26:09,080 Speaker 8: and decent. They shouldn't have to face such a cruel 537 00:26:09,080 --> 00:26:09,960 Speaker 8: regime alone. 538 00:26:10,200 --> 00:26:11,400 Speaker 4: We are with you, Dave. 539 00:26:11,440 --> 00:26:13,359 Speaker 2: He's just such a generous and caring man. I think 540 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:14,919 Speaker 2: that's what we should really take away from that. 541 00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:19,040 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, it is rich of him to kind 542 00:26:19,040 --> 00:26:21,639 Speaker 4: of frame his you know, himself as some kind of 543 00:26:21,680 --> 00:26:25,120 Speaker 4: humanitarian that wants to bring water to a people when 544 00:26:25,119 --> 00:26:30,080 Speaker 4: he's blockading and starving the people of Gaza. But you know, 545 00:26:30,119 --> 00:26:33,040 Speaker 4: we've seen him put out these videos before, and really 546 00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,359 Speaker 4: the last time he did it was during the what 547 00:26:35,400 --> 00:26:37,720 Speaker 4: we call now I guess, the twelve day war that 548 00:26:37,880 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 4: Israel launched on Iran. So this is concerning to see 549 00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:46,399 Speaker 4: because we do appear to be on the trajectory toward 550 00:26:46,640 --> 00:26:49,960 Speaker 4: another confrontation here just because of what we see coming 551 00:26:50,000 --> 00:26:55,000 Speaker 4: from Israel, the US and Iran. Essentially, Iran's position has 552 00:26:55,040 --> 00:26:58,000 Speaker 4: been that they're willing to resume nuclear negotiations with the 553 00:26:58,080 --> 00:27:00,280 Speaker 4: US if they can get some kind of assurance is 554 00:27:00,680 --> 00:27:02,560 Speaker 4: that they won't be attacked again, which I think is 555 00:27:02,600 --> 00:27:06,840 Speaker 4: a very reasonable position considering the US and Israel actually 556 00:27:06,960 --> 00:27:10,440 Speaker 4: use the cover of the previous negotiations to launch the war, 557 00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:13,800 Speaker 4: and I mean the US really, like the Trump administration, 558 00:27:13,920 --> 00:27:18,080 Speaker 4: really spent its diplomatic credibility on this. Israel actually code 559 00:27:18,119 --> 00:27:21,320 Speaker 4: named the initial attack, the initial air strikes that targeted 560 00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,119 Speaker 4: Iranian leadership, the Red Wedding, referring to the Game of 561 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,080 Speaker 4: Thrones scene, which is, you know, a massacre based on portrayal. 562 00:27:29,160 --> 00:27:33,879 Speaker 4: It's just and Israel Katz, the Defense Minister, recently, actually 563 00:27:33,880 --> 00:27:36,280 Speaker 4: said that publicly that it was called it the Red Wedding, 564 00:27:36,359 --> 00:27:39,919 Speaker 4: and he's been threatening to kill Kamenade, the Iranian Supreme leader. 565 00:27:41,400 --> 00:27:45,760 Speaker 4: So Aron wants assurances. And you also have President Trump 566 00:27:45,920 --> 00:27:49,320 Speaker 4: threatening to Bombaran again if they resume in Richmond. You 567 00:27:49,359 --> 00:27:51,679 Speaker 4: have this stuff coming from the Yahoo and what he 568 00:27:51,720 --> 00:27:53,320 Speaker 4: also said in that video is, you know, take to 569 00:27:53,359 --> 00:27:57,320 Speaker 4: the streets essentially, rise up against your government. So these 570 00:27:57,320 --> 00:27:59,399 Speaker 4: are not assurances that they're not going to be attacked 571 00:27:59,440 --> 00:28:02,560 Speaker 4: again if they resumed the negotiations with the US. We're 572 00:28:02,560 --> 00:28:05,600 Speaker 4: seeing reports just breaking right before we started recording that 573 00:28:05,720 --> 00:28:09,359 Speaker 4: Reuters is reporting that Kamene has decided that they should 574 00:28:09,440 --> 00:28:13,960 Speaker 4: resume the negotiations with the US. Skeptical of that that's 575 00:28:14,000 --> 00:28:18,120 Speaker 4: true at this moment. Ruters's sources on Iran aren't always correct, 576 00:28:18,200 --> 00:28:22,000 Speaker 4: but it's just we have, you know, several dynamics here 577 00:28:22,040 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 4: that don't look good. And another thing is the European countries, 578 00:28:24,720 --> 00:28:29,040 Speaker 4: the UK, France, and Germany. A big difference between the 579 00:28:29,080 --> 00:28:32,159 Speaker 4: negotiations that the Trump administration was engaged in with Iran 580 00:28:32,400 --> 00:28:36,400 Speaker 4: from when Obama was engaged in similar negotiations is that 581 00:28:36,720 --> 00:28:40,120 Speaker 4: the Europeans were not on board. This time. It seemed 582 00:28:40,120 --> 00:28:44,240 Speaker 4: like almost like they wanted war. And after Israel launched 583 00:28:44,240 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 4: the war, we even saw the German Chancellor Meurers say, 584 00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,760 Speaker 4: Israel's doing our dirty work. And this is right before 585 00:28:49,760 --> 00:28:52,160 Speaker 4: this when they started being critical of what Israel's doing 586 00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:55,320 Speaker 4: in Gaza. And that's a whole other aspect of this, 587 00:28:55,520 --> 00:28:57,880 Speaker 4: you know, with the genocide in Gaza. I mean, the 588 00:28:57,920 --> 00:28:59,960 Speaker 4: phase that we're in now, what they're preparing for this 589 00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:03,720 Speaker 4: takeover of Gaza City is going to be absolutely horrific. 590 00:29:03,760 --> 00:29:06,000 Speaker 4: And what's a nice distraction from that is a new 591 00:29:06,400 --> 00:29:11,680 Speaker 4: war with Iran. And you know, as Trita Parsi wrote 592 00:29:11,680 --> 00:29:14,000 Speaker 4: in Foreign Policy a very excellent article I really kind 593 00:29:14,040 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 4: of summarized all this stuff. You know, Israel did not 594 00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,400 Speaker 4: win the war with Iran. One point that he made 595 00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:22,520 Speaker 4: was that one of Israel's goals was that they want 596 00:29:22,520 --> 00:29:24,600 Speaker 4: Iran to be like Syria, to be like Lebanon, to 597 00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:26,480 Speaker 4: be one of these countries that they could just bomb 598 00:29:26,520 --> 00:29:29,720 Speaker 4: with impunity. But they didn't achieve that because right up 599 00:29:29,760 --> 00:29:32,080 Speaker 4: until the last moment, Iron was hitting them with their missiles. 600 00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:35,480 Speaker 4: And right now Iron is rebuilding, you know, working to 601 00:29:35,520 --> 00:29:38,840 Speaker 4: rebuild its air defenses, replenish its missiles. So Israel only 602 00:29:39,160 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 4: only wants that to go on for so long. The 603 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:44,320 Speaker 4: big question is is Trump going to support another war 604 00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:47,040 Speaker 4: with Iran? And based on what he's been saying when 605 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:50,040 Speaker 4: it comes to Israel, it seems likely to me that 606 00:29:50,080 --> 00:29:50,480 Speaker 4: he would. 607 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,160 Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, did we actually have tree to Parsi's article here? 608 00:29:53,160 --> 00:29:55,240 Speaker 1: We can put it up there on the screen about 609 00:29:55,280 --> 00:29:58,200 Speaker 1: the next Israel Iran war is coming. I mean, Dave, 610 00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,400 Speaker 1: can you just break down what he talks about about 611 00:30:00,400 --> 00:30:03,800 Speaker 1: the strategic calculus of both countries now could mean an 612 00:30:03,840 --> 00:30:06,400 Speaker 1: even more violent war, which he predicts, by the way, 613 00:30:06,480 --> 00:30:08,960 Speaker 1: could start as early as August, as in where we're 614 00:30:08,960 --> 00:30:09,720 Speaker 1: talking right now. 615 00:30:10,960 --> 00:30:12,880 Speaker 4: Yeah. So one reason why I think he put that 616 00:30:12,920 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 4: August timeline is because again France, the UK and Jerremany 617 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:19,440 Speaker 4: they're threatening to reimpose what they call the snapback sanctions, 618 00:30:19,720 --> 00:30:22,360 Speaker 4: which were UN Security Council sanctions lifted by the twenty 619 00:30:22,440 --> 00:30:25,320 Speaker 4: fifteen Iran deal, and the threat has always been to 620 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,800 Speaker 4: reimpose them, and sum Maranging officials are saying, we don't 621 00:30:28,800 --> 00:30:30,680 Speaker 4: know if this is kind of their official line, that 622 00:30:30,760 --> 00:30:33,160 Speaker 4: if those sanctions are imposed, they're going to withdraw from 623 00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 4: the Non Proliferation Treaty. And I think that's that would 624 00:30:36,360 --> 00:30:39,520 Speaker 4: be the pretext for the US and Israel to launch 625 00:30:39,560 --> 00:30:42,040 Speaker 4: another war if they did that, or it would at least, 626 00:30:42,480 --> 00:30:46,320 Speaker 4: you know, give net and Yahoo a better argument with 627 00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,040 Speaker 4: the Trump administration, because Iran wants her to be consequences 628 00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:51,440 Speaker 4: for these actions for the bombing. You know, after the bombing, 629 00:30:51,480 --> 00:30:54,400 Speaker 4: they ended cooperation with the IAEA, even though they are 630 00:30:54,440 --> 00:30:58,240 Speaker 4: still in talks with them. But another point that he makes, 631 00:30:58,240 --> 00:31:01,400 Speaker 4: as I said, he you know, they want Iran to 632 00:31:01,440 --> 00:31:05,920 Speaker 4: either be impotent essentially that they could bomb them without 633 00:31:06,000 --> 00:31:09,800 Speaker 4: any trouble, or they do want regime change, and you know, 634 00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,240 Speaker 4: I think people get the wrong idea. You know, I 635 00:31:11,280 --> 00:31:13,600 Speaker 4: don't think there's really any scenario where US troops are 636 00:31:13,600 --> 00:31:17,040 Speaker 4: going into Iran. They don't want to replace the regime. 637 00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:19,440 Speaker 4: They just want to destroy it. They want to sink 638 00:31:19,440 --> 00:31:22,960 Speaker 4: the country into chaos. And you know, you see that 639 00:31:23,000 --> 00:31:27,000 Speaker 4: with Syria right now. The Israel supported the regime change 640 00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:29,440 Speaker 4: against a sad and this new government came in. I 641 00:31:29,440 --> 00:31:31,560 Speaker 4: mean they are in al Qaeda government. It's literally the 642 00:31:31,600 --> 00:31:33,680 Speaker 4: guy who founded Al Keda in Syria who's part of 643 00:31:33,720 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 4: the government. But even though he's been al Shara, the 644 00:31:37,160 --> 00:31:40,240 Speaker 4: new so called president has been very deferential toward Israel. 645 00:31:40,240 --> 00:31:42,760 Speaker 4: We've seen Israel bomb them, so it's clear, you know, 646 00:31:42,840 --> 00:31:46,800 Speaker 4: they don't want to unified Syria. They would prefer shattered 647 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,200 Speaker 4: Iran to this, you know, relatively stable one that we see. 648 00:31:50,240 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 4: And another thing about the calculations that Parsi talks about 649 00:31:53,440 --> 00:31:56,440 Speaker 4: is that Iran is sorry. Israel has always had really 650 00:31:57,080 --> 00:32:01,880 Speaker 4: significant intelligence assets inside and apparently with the first wave 651 00:32:01,880 --> 00:32:04,120 Speaker 4: of attacks, you know, people on the ground and drones 652 00:32:04,280 --> 00:32:07,440 Speaker 4: that were fired from inside Iran played a big role 653 00:32:07,480 --> 00:32:10,960 Speaker 4: in hurting their air defenses. But we've seen this big 654 00:32:11,000 --> 00:32:13,760 Speaker 4: crackdown in Iran. I think they've arrested like twenty thousand people, 655 00:32:14,200 --> 00:32:17,520 Speaker 4: so they're losing. I think they probably spent a lot 656 00:32:17,560 --> 00:32:20,760 Speaker 4: of their intel assets. So there's a lot of reasons 657 00:32:20,760 --> 00:32:24,240 Speaker 4: why Israel might want to hit them again soon. And 658 00:32:24,320 --> 00:32:26,840 Speaker 4: they need the US. I mean, that's just the fact 659 00:32:26,880 --> 00:32:30,440 Speaker 4: because the US intercepted so many Iranian missiles and you know, 660 00:32:30,480 --> 00:32:32,920 Speaker 4: besides just bombing the nuclear facility, So this is very 661 00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 4: much Israel wanting to drag the US into another war. 662 00:32:36,600 --> 00:32:36,640 Speaker 8: It. 663 00:32:36,840 --> 00:32:39,200 Speaker 2: Yeah, the other question I have is whether they, since 664 00:32:39,200 --> 00:32:41,040 Speaker 2: they named it the Red Wedding, if they watched the 665 00:32:41,080 --> 00:32:42,960 Speaker 2: rest of that series and saw how it turned out 666 00:32:43,000 --> 00:32:45,880 Speaker 2: for that family. We'll put that aside in any case, 667 00:32:47,280 --> 00:32:49,800 Speaker 2: picking backing off of what you were saying there, you know, 668 00:32:49,800 --> 00:32:53,080 Speaker 2: what indications do we have from Trump about how he 669 00:32:53,560 --> 00:32:57,360 Speaker 2: would behave if Israel goes back to war with Iran. 670 00:32:57,920 --> 00:32:59,560 Speaker 2: You know, he seemed to want this and this is 671 00:32:59,600 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 2: what dark Parsi lays on his piece. He seemed to 672 00:33:02,200 --> 00:33:04,120 Speaker 2: want it to be sort of like a want and done. 673 00:33:04,800 --> 00:33:07,880 Speaker 2: Do you think that he has the fortitude to resist 674 00:33:08,040 --> 00:33:11,360 Speaker 2: Israel's endless entreaties for us to get you know, directly 675 00:33:11,360 --> 00:33:13,600 Speaker 2: engaged once again in a hot war with Iran. 676 00:33:15,000 --> 00:33:16,800 Speaker 4: Based on what I've seen from Trump, I mean, it 677 00:33:16,840 --> 00:33:20,560 Speaker 4: doesn't seem like he wants a big war, but we've 678 00:33:20,600 --> 00:33:23,560 Speaker 4: seen the kind of the rhetoric is, oh, if they start, 679 00:33:23,640 --> 00:33:26,560 Speaker 4: you know, restart their enrichment program again, and I'll, you know, 680 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:28,880 Speaker 4: we'll we'll blow them away again. You know, we'll, we'll, 681 00:33:28,960 --> 00:33:30,960 Speaker 4: we'll hit him again. And I think the lesson he 682 00:33:31,080 --> 00:33:32,800 Speaker 4: learned from this, and the same lesson that he learned 683 00:33:32,800 --> 00:33:35,600 Speaker 4: from Solomani in his first administration when he assassinated the 684 00:33:35,600 --> 00:33:39,400 Speaker 4: Iranian general and Iran's response was very choreographed. They fired 685 00:33:39,440 --> 00:33:41,880 Speaker 4: some missiles at a US based in Iraq and essentially 686 00:33:41,880 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 4: gave them notification. And this happened again. I mean, this 687 00:33:45,280 --> 00:33:47,360 Speaker 4: was a big concern with this war, is the US 688 00:33:47,440 --> 00:33:49,840 Speaker 4: bombing Iran? Are they going to hit American basis hard 689 00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,360 Speaker 4: or they're going to be American casualties? And they didn't 690 00:33:53,840 --> 00:33:56,720 Speaker 4: this time again, it was it was choreographed and they 691 00:33:56,760 --> 00:34:01,760 Speaker 4: gave the US notice. So I think the lesson Trump learned, 692 00:34:01,760 --> 00:34:03,200 Speaker 4: and I think kind of the people he's listening to 693 00:34:03,240 --> 00:34:05,160 Speaker 4: on this are are saying, you could hit Ron hard, 694 00:34:05,200 --> 00:34:07,160 Speaker 4: and you know, they're not going to do anything. And 695 00:34:07,800 --> 00:34:09,719 Speaker 4: I think they know that in Tehran. That that is 696 00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 4: you know that if this happens again, as Sagar mentioned before, 697 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:15,880 Speaker 4: I should get into that angle of what Parsi said 698 00:34:15,960 --> 00:34:17,960 Speaker 4: that it could be bloodier than last time. I think 699 00:34:18,000 --> 00:34:21,759 Speaker 4: that in Iran, you know, the calculation is going to 700 00:34:21,800 --> 00:34:23,359 Speaker 4: be different, because it was pretty clear that they were 701 00:34:23,360 --> 00:34:26,720 Speaker 4: trying to stop you know, they were hitting is real hard, 702 00:34:26,760 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 4: but you know, it was clear they were saying, you know, 703 00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:30,759 Speaker 4: if you stop attacking us, we'll stop attacking you, and 704 00:34:30,760 --> 00:34:33,120 Speaker 4: that'll be that. And then again they got bombed by 705 00:34:33,120 --> 00:34:34,920 Speaker 4: the US, but they gave him notice before they hit 706 00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:39,120 Speaker 4: the basin guitar. But this time around, I think things 707 00:34:39,160 --> 00:34:40,920 Speaker 4: will be different, especially if they are just going to 708 00:34:40,960 --> 00:34:43,239 Speaker 4: go for trying to kill the Supreme Leader and and 709 00:34:43,480 --> 00:34:44,120 Speaker 4: things like that. 710 00:34:45,440 --> 00:34:47,080 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, I think all of this is just 711 00:34:47,120 --> 00:34:50,160 Speaker 1: so incredibly dangerous, Dave, And I mean when you look 712 00:34:50,280 --> 00:34:53,000 Speaker 1: at it in the future, like what are some of 713 00:34:53,000 --> 00:34:56,040 Speaker 1: the critical steps that we should look for, Like already 714 00:34:56,040 --> 00:34:59,120 Speaker 1: this video from net and Yahoo, it's not looking good right, 715 00:34:59,160 --> 00:35:01,239 Speaker 1: the fact that it's in England. It's a telegraph to 716 00:35:01,280 --> 00:35:04,560 Speaker 1: the administration. You talked there about the August timeline. What 717 00:35:04,600 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 1: are some other things our audience and others can look 718 00:35:06,440 --> 00:35:06,759 Speaker 1: out for. 719 00:35:07,880 --> 00:35:10,759 Speaker 4: I think those snapback sanctions are really a big thing 720 00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:13,719 Speaker 4: because it's not really clear to what France what they're 721 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:15,759 Speaker 4: asking for with the E three countries that they call 722 00:35:15,800 --> 00:35:18,359 Speaker 4: and the signatories to the JCPOA are asking for. They 723 00:35:18,360 --> 00:35:22,160 Speaker 4: say they got to resume negotiations and they want them 724 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:27,560 Speaker 4: to resume cooperation with the IAEA. But again, you know, 725 00:35:27,560 --> 00:35:30,080 Speaker 4: they're very eager and doing this all very fast and 726 00:35:30,080 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 4: giving them a deadline. So it just to me makes 727 00:35:33,239 --> 00:35:35,640 Speaker 4: diplomacy seem unlikely. But I think we see those sanctions 728 00:35:35,640 --> 00:35:38,280 Speaker 4: go into place, if we see Aron take that step 729 00:35:38,320 --> 00:35:42,799 Speaker 4: to leave the Non Proliferation Treaty, those are signs I 730 00:35:42,800 --> 00:35:45,839 Speaker 4: think that we're going toward war. And also, I mean, 731 00:35:45,880 --> 00:35:47,319 Speaker 4: you know, when it comes to Trump, I mean the 732 00:35:47,360 --> 00:35:51,960 Speaker 4: fact that he does appear to be allowing Israel, supporting 733 00:35:52,080 --> 00:35:57,080 Speaker 4: Israel's escalations in Gaza, you know, and saying, oh, it's 734 00:35:57,080 --> 00:35:58,840 Speaker 4: totally up to Israel. You know, they frame it like 735 00:35:58,880 --> 00:36:01,600 Speaker 4: it's all Israel's a sovereign country that makes its own decisions, 736 00:36:02,239 --> 00:36:05,000 Speaker 4: but they're completely relying on US military aid for their 737 00:36:05,000 --> 00:36:08,400 Speaker 4: military operations. So like, if Israel's escalating in Gaza, the 738 00:36:08,440 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 4: US needs to support it. So if Trump is going 739 00:36:10,840 --> 00:36:13,800 Speaker 4: to support all that, then you know, it wouldn't surprise 740 00:36:13,840 --> 00:36:17,040 Speaker 4: me if he supports another war with Iran. You know, 741 00:36:17,080 --> 00:36:19,480 Speaker 4: we're just not seeing any kind of reining in of 742 00:36:19,520 --> 00:36:22,680 Speaker 4: net Yahu here. The strategy seems to be giving him 743 00:36:22,719 --> 00:36:25,239 Speaker 4: like a bear hug and saying he's great, and you 744 00:36:25,239 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 4: know there's a witch hunt against him, and it's clear 745 00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:29,520 Speaker 4: he wants this war with Iran. 746 00:36:30,400 --> 00:36:30,760 Speaker 3: Yeah. 747 00:36:30,800 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 4: So you know, another potential escalation I think is in Lebanon, 748 00:36:34,600 --> 00:36:37,279 Speaker 4: because you know, I mentioned I think I mentioned that 749 00:36:37,280 --> 00:36:39,359 Speaker 4: that this would serve a war with the wrong would serve 750 00:36:39,360 --> 00:36:42,400 Speaker 4: as a good distraction from Gaza. We're also seeing indications 751 00:36:42,400 --> 00:36:45,120 Speaker 4: for a big escalation in Lebanon. The US is demanding 752 00:36:45,160 --> 00:36:48,600 Speaker 4: that the Lebanese government disarmed Hezbalah, and they've agreed to 753 00:36:48,640 --> 00:36:50,520 Speaker 4: do that. But how are they going to do that? 754 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,200 Speaker 4: I mean, that could be potential civil war. But they 755 00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:56,480 Speaker 4: gave him a deadline and they're basically threatening. You know, 756 00:36:56,560 --> 00:36:59,399 Speaker 4: Israel has been bombing Lebanon. They signed this so called 757 00:36:59,480 --> 00:37:01,960 Speaker 4: ceasefire agreement last year, but is you know, one side 758 00:37:02,640 --> 00:37:06,080 Speaker 4: ceased fire but the other didn't, right, But they're essentially 759 00:37:06,080 --> 00:37:08,359 Speaker 4: threatening escalation eleven and I think that's kind of another 760 00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,480 Speaker 4: area to keep an eye on. And then when we 761 00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:13,200 Speaker 4: talk about the war with Iran getting bloodier, one thing 762 00:37:13,239 --> 00:37:15,680 Speaker 4: that we didn't see with this war was the Shia 763 00:37:16,040 --> 00:37:18,840 Speaker 4: militias in Iraq. You know, there's always a concern of 764 00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,879 Speaker 4: them targeting us. Bass. I think if this war happens again, 765 00:37:21,920 --> 00:37:25,040 Speaker 4: we will see that kind of the the Iran kind 766 00:37:25,040 --> 00:37:28,720 Speaker 4: of unleashing its capabilities and its allies in the region 767 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:29,120 Speaker 4: as well. 768 00:37:29,719 --> 00:37:31,920 Speaker 2: Dave, my last question for you is I wanted to 769 00:37:32,120 --> 00:37:34,360 Speaker 2: get you to respond to something we actually covered earlier 770 00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:37,400 Speaker 2: in the show Controllerrooms. See one if you have it, 771 00:37:37,440 --> 00:37:39,040 Speaker 2: if we could put that up on the screen. But 772 00:37:39,120 --> 00:37:44,360 Speaker 2: I'm sure you saw Netnyahu acknowledging his connection to the 773 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:47,680 Speaker 2: vision of quote unquote greater Israel, saying he's on a 774 00:37:47,880 --> 00:37:52,200 Speaker 2: historic and spiritual mission for the Jewish people. And so 775 00:37:52,640 --> 00:37:57,480 Speaker 2: you know, connect the potential escalation with Iran with the 776 00:37:57,520 --> 00:38:01,360 Speaker 2: actions in Lebanon in Syria and you know the West 777 00:38:01,360 --> 00:38:04,120 Speaker 2: Bank and Gaza. You know, what is the big picture 778 00:38:04,160 --> 00:38:06,480 Speaker 2: here for Israel? What are the goals that they are 779 00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:08,280 Speaker 2: trying to accomplish. 780 00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,839 Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's really something that he said that, 781 00:38:11,120 --> 00:38:14,279 Speaker 4: and you know, I think it's clear so in the 782 00:38:14,280 --> 00:38:16,799 Speaker 4: region right now, I mean, the only country that can 783 00:38:16,880 --> 00:38:21,920 Speaker 4: really inflict damage on Israel is ram You know, the 784 00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:24,799 Speaker 4: Huthis and Yemen have been able to get some missiles through, 785 00:38:24,840 --> 00:38:26,759 Speaker 4: and there's certainly a problem for Israel, but it's not 786 00:38:26,800 --> 00:38:29,440 Speaker 4: like they can do the damage like Iran can. So 787 00:38:29,480 --> 00:38:31,319 Speaker 4: when he talks about greater Israel, I mean, we've seen 788 00:38:31,360 --> 00:38:33,560 Speaker 4: them invade the southern Syria after the regime change, and 789 00:38:33,560 --> 00:38:36,600 Speaker 4: they're continuing to push further in there, and members of 790 00:38:36,600 --> 00:38:39,839 Speaker 4: the government, including Besilosmotrich talk openly about the idea of 791 00:38:39,880 --> 00:38:43,400 Speaker 4: just taking over southern Lebanon. And of course we just 792 00:38:43,440 --> 00:38:46,760 Speaker 4: saw Smotridge approved some major settlement expansion in the West Bank. 793 00:38:47,040 --> 00:38:49,560 Speaker 4: So all this expansion in the region. Really the only 794 00:38:50,640 --> 00:38:52,719 Speaker 4: game in town when it comes to being able to 795 00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:58,960 Speaker 4: threaten Israel's expansion is Iran. And so I believe that's why, 796 00:38:59,040 --> 00:39:03,000 Speaker 4: you know, they're the last piece that Netanya who wants 797 00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:05,520 Speaker 4: to knock off the board, so you know, kind of 798 00:39:05,560 --> 00:39:10,480 Speaker 4: goes along with the so called Greater Israel. Everything kind 799 00:39:10,520 --> 00:39:12,960 Speaker 4: of that's happening in Godza, the West Bank, eleven on Syria, 800 00:39:14,360 --> 00:39:17,240 Speaker 4: and potentially beyond based on what Netanya who said. 801 00:39:17,400 --> 00:39:20,440 Speaker 1: Yeah, well Dave, we really appreciate your analysis, man, and 802 00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:21,880 Speaker 1: I hope you'll come back on the show. 803 00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:24,040 Speaker 4: Thank you, Yeah, thanks so much for having me. 804 00:39:24,160 --> 00:39:27,000 Speaker 1: Absolutely, Thank you guys so much for watching. We appreciate you. 805 00:39:27,120 --> 00:39:31,080 Speaker 1: Programming reminder, the Friday show will be on Saturday morning. 806 00:39:31,120 --> 00:39:34,000 Speaker 1: We'll maybe have a special guest hopefully to break down 807 00:39:34,040 --> 00:39:36,520 Speaker 1: the Trump Putin summit for everybody, so look out for 808 00:39:36,560 --> 00:39:38,200 Speaker 1: that in your inboxes. We'll see you then.