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Speaker 1: Hello, and welcome to save your production of iHeartRadio.

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Speaker 2: I'm Annie Res and I'm Lauren Vocal Bam, and today

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Speaker 2: we have an episode for you about caraway seeds.

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Speaker 1: Yes, any particular reason these were on your mind?

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Speaker 2: Lord, didn't we just do something about them shortbread? Thank you?

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Speaker 1: Oh my heck, it's been a minute. We're it's been

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Speaker 1: a minute since we've recorded together. So under understandable.

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Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, so right in Shortbread, we discussed how there

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Speaker 2: was this kind of a trend of putting caraway in shortbread,

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Speaker 2: and maybe we mentioned other bake goods at the time,

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Speaker 2: in the sixteen to eighteen hundreds, and I was like, oh, yeah,

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Speaker 2: we haven't done an episode about those yet. Let's do

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Speaker 2: an episode about those.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, I saw heavily because a couple of years ago,

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Speaker 1: I was trying to make irissoda bread, okay, and I

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Speaker 1: had never really used caraway seeds. I'm sure i'd had

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Speaker 1: them and things, I just had never personally made something

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Speaker 1: with them. And I was like, there's recipe calls for that,

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Speaker 1: and I went and I purchased them, and I can't

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Speaker 1: I don't. I can't say if I went overboard or

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Speaker 1: the recipe went overboard, okay, but it was way too much.

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Speaker 1: It was like the overpowering slaver. So it sort of

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Speaker 1: turned me off from Caraways for a while, and I

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Speaker 1: just purchased like this whole thing, you know. Sure, But

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Speaker 1: later I ventured back out. I dipped my toe back

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Speaker 1: in the water, and I do like them. I just

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Speaker 1: learned to touch on that one. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I already have a note in here about how a

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Speaker 2: little goes a long way, and it's true.

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Speaker 1: It's true.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's a strongly flavored spice. Yeah. No, I mean

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Speaker 2: I love a Caraway. Yeah, And clearly whatever happened there,

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Speaker 2: I'm wondering if, like you, misread grains of caraway versus

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Speaker 2: like powdered caraway or something like that. Or I don't

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Speaker 2: just miss like a tablespoon for a teaspoon.

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Speaker 1: But I've made that mistake more than once, so it's

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Speaker 1: quite possible, all right, could be I had just it

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Speaker 1: was a shock because I hadn't. I don't think that's

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Speaker 1: what I was expecting when I tasted it. But whatever

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Speaker 1: the case, I've come back around. I've recovered from that experience.

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Speaker 1: Good good. You can see our past episodes on Carrots

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Speaker 1: Harisa dill, corned beef, pickles, sauer kraut, cabbage, short bread, gin, aquaviit. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's involved in a lot of things.

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Speaker 2: It is or is related to things that are involved

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Speaker 2: with a lot of things as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, as we will talk about. Yeah, but I guess

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Speaker 1: that brings us through our question.

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Speaker 2: Yes, I guess.

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Speaker 1: So. Caraway seeds what are they?

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Speaker 2: Well, caraway is a spice made from the seeds of

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Speaker 2: a plant, technically the fruit. We'll get into that in

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Speaker 2: a minute. They're either ground up or used whole. They're

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Speaker 2: shaped a little like ridged grains of rice and are

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Speaker 2: brownish gray in color, like like tiny over ripe bananas.

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Speaker 2: Their flavor is warm and kind of earthy, woody, citrusy,

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Speaker 2: a little bit minty, spicy, and there's this punch of bittersweet,

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Speaker 2: like anis licorice.

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Speaker 1: Kind of flavor.

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Speaker 2: They're used in all kinds of sweet and savory dishes

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Speaker 2: and drinks. The whole plant is edible, but it's mostly

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Speaker 2: used for those seeds because that's where the flavor is concentrated. Also,

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Speaker 2: they're easy to dry out, but yeah, it adds depth

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Speaker 2: to vegetable side dishes, cheeses, stew, soups, casseroles, to season

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Speaker 2: savory breads or sweet cakes or jams or puddings, and

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Speaker 2: to bring another warming element to alcoholic drinks. It's like, Okay,

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Speaker 2: I don't know how y'all feel about wood paneled rooms,

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Speaker 2: but to me, they feel they like look and kind

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Speaker 2: of smell warm and inviting and homie. And that's that's

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Speaker 2: what Caraway reminds me of. It just kind of feels

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Speaker 2: like home.

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Speaker 1: Carroway Home. Yeah, sounds like a brand I like it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, not sponsored by the pot brand Caraway.

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Speaker 1: Which I did get confused by briefly this research.

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Speaker 2: Wait what Yeah, not not not currently anyway. So Caraway

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Speaker 2: is in fact in the carrot fan family botanical named

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Speaker 2: Carum carv. I think I still have never learned Latin.

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Speaker 2: Here we are, Yeah, A caraway is a soft herbaceous

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Speaker 2: plant that can grow like one to three feet tall,

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Speaker 2: that's up to a meter, with these delicate, lacy green

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Speaker 2: leaves that look a lot like carrot leaves. They'll grow

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Speaker 2: a creamy white taproot down into the ground like a

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Speaker 2: like a skinny parsnip, which is another cousin to store

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Speaker 2: nutrients for the following year. After surviving a winter, they'll

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Speaker 2: shoot up a long, skinny flower stem that will bloom

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Speaker 2: with these flat, pretty clusters of like white pinkish flowers

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Speaker 2: that look kind of like Queen Anne's lace, which is

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Speaker 2: another cousin. Each flower, if pollinated, will develop into a small,

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Speaker 2: hard fruit that is completely that's made up of these

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Speaker 2: two crescent shaped seeds that come together in like a

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Speaker 2: little oval, and each half of that oval is what

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Speaker 2: we mean when we say caraway seed. Technically a fruit,

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Speaker 2: a specific type called akeene. They have five fridges lengthwise

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Speaker 2: and are slightly curved again like a crescent moon or

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Speaker 2: a banana. And when they dry from green to brown,

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Speaker 2: they are ready for harvest. The flowers can also be

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Speaker 2: used in salads or as a garnish to warm dishes.

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Speaker 2: The leaves will benefit from a little bit of cooking

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Speaker 2: to soften them, like carrot leaves, which you can also eat.

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Speaker 2: And I understand they taste like similar to caraway, but softer,

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Speaker 2: more like almost like a like parsley or like dill.

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Speaker 2: The root can be cooked like any other root vegetable.

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Speaker 2: I understand it's warm and earthy in flavor, and yeah,

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Speaker 2: carraway seeds are a key flavor ingredient in things like

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Speaker 2: sauer kraut or seeded or Jewish rye, bread, goulash, aquavit,

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Speaker 2: and other Northern European liquors, a few Northern European cheeses,

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Speaker 2: Middle Eastern rice puddings, Just a spread of things that

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Speaker 2: I find super interesting across a number of different cultures

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Speaker 2: in a number of wise.

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Speaker 1: Yes, yes, indeed, well what about the nutrition.

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Speaker 2: You're not typically eating enough for it to make a

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Speaker 2: real nutritive difference. Again, a little bit goes a long way.

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Speaker 2: But caraway does contain protein and fiber, a great smattering

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Speaker 2: of minerals, and some other micronutrients, and those include compounds

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Speaker 2: that have been found to have antioxidant, anti inflammatory, and

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Speaker 2: antibacterial properties that seem to all kind of help your

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Speaker 2: body block harmful bacteria from growing in your gut and

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Speaker 2: thus help promote a healthier gut microbiome, all of which

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Speaker 2: may help aid in digestion, all of which is super

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Speaker 2: interesting because caraway has been used in various traditions to

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Speaker 2: aid digestion for a very long time, essentially since humans

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Speaker 2: picked these this stuff up they were like digestion. That

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Speaker 2: being said, most of the research that has been done

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Speaker 2: so far has been in vitro in test tubes, not

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Speaker 2: in bodies, and then when it has gone in bodies,

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Speaker 2: it's been in mostly animal studies. So saber motto. You know,

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Speaker 2: nutrition is complicated, our bodies are complicated. More research is necessary.

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Speaker 2: Before ingesting a medicinal amount of anything. You should contact

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Speaker 2: a medical provider who.

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Speaker 1: Is not us. Nope, no bar no bo. I can

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Speaker 1: give you some videos I think might help your mental

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Speaker 1: health if you will laugh. But that's about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I can share cat photos. That's what I've got.

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Speaker 2: That's the extent of what we can offer here. We

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Speaker 2: do have a number for you. One. The global market

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Speaker 2: for caraway seeds is worth about two billion dollars a

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Speaker 2: year as of twenty twenty four.

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Speaker 1: I think, yes, I mean that's kind of a hard

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Speaker 1: thing to pin down.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I saw a couple of varying numbers, but

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Speaker 2: that seems to be where they were centered around, aside

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Speaker 2: from one outlier that was like a lot more than

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Speaker 2: that by like a factor of ten, And I was like.

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Speaker 1: Oh, that's a different number. Okay, so they're doing well.

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Speaker 2: I think we can see yeah, yeah, yeah, absolutely, yes.

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Speaker 1: And there there's a history as to how they got

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Speaker 1: to this point.

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Speaker 2: There is, and we are going to get into that

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Speaker 2: history as soon as we get back from a quick

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Speaker 2: break forward from our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you sponsors, Yes, thank you. Okay, So,

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Speaker 1: if you heard any hesitation about my clunky transition, it's

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Speaker 1: because I couldn't find too much about the early days

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Speaker 1: of caraway. But from what I could find, researchers believe

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Speaker 1: that it originated in Egypt and or the Mediterranean or

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Speaker 1: a modern day Turkey. Some evidence suggests that caraway seeds

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Speaker 1: were present in Switzerland over five thousand years ago, So

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Speaker 1: I don't know. It seems like it was around for

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Speaker 1: a while and maybe in a couple different places. Sure,

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Speaker 1: that's what I can say. Historians believe that ancient Romans

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Speaker 1: spread caraway throughout Europe, and that the ancient Romans may

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Speaker 1: have eaten the carey root as well. A handful of

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Speaker 1: recipes from the first century CE Roman cookbook the Epiceus

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Speaker 1: called for caraway seeds. Beginning in the Middle Ages at

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Speaker 1: the latest, caraway seeds were being cultivated in a wide

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Speaker 1: swath of land from Scandinavia to Sicily. As with most

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Speaker 1: things we discuss, they were widely used medicinally in the

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Speaker 1: early days. As mentioned, a twelfth century text out of

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Speaker 1: Germany prescribed them for a few ailments primarily related to

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Speaker 1: the stomach and digestion. However, I also read that they

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Speaker 1: may have been used as sort of a breath freshener,

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Speaker 1: like maybe specifically to mask the smell of alcohol. But

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Speaker 1: at the same time, at some point it became an

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Speaker 1: ingredient in certain varieties of gin, amongst other alcohols.

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Speaker 2: So, yeah, you know a lot of these purportedly medicinal

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Speaker 2: ribs and spices made their way into alcohols, because, as

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Speaker 2: we've said on the show many times, a lot of

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Speaker 2: alcohols were originally also meant to be kind of medicinal.

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Speaker 1: Yes, around this time, caraway seeds found their way into

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Speaker 1: Eastern European and Scandinavian recipes.

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Speaker 2: The word caraway entered the English language sometime around the

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Speaker 2: twelve hundreds. The etymology is contested, but it might through

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Speaker 2: an Arabic word that itself came from a Greek word

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Speaker 2: for cumen.

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Speaker 1: So if you think I didn't see your pun there, rooted.

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Speaker 2: Through Oh I didn't see my pun there, So.

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Speaker 1: Oh I just on the lookout. Yeah, before the potato.

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Speaker 1: Cabbage was one of the most popular vegetables for many

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Speaker 1: Jewish homes in Central and Eastern Europe. Many of these

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Speaker 1: homes would have barrels for things like sauerkraut, and Caraway

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Speaker 1: was a popular seasoning to layer in between the cabbage

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Speaker 1: as it fermented, but it found its way into all

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Speaker 1: kinds of things, typically more on the savory side, soups, meats, vegetables, dumplings, noodles,

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Speaker 1: sometimes in cheese, just all kinds of things. According to

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Speaker 1: one source, I found, some parts of Europe offered sugar

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Speaker 1: coated caraway seats at the end of a meal to

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Speaker 1: help people digest during the sixteen hundreds.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, this totally happened. They're called cumfeets, and this is

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Speaker 2: a fairly fairly wide category of like sugar coated treats

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Speaker 2: like like nuts or seeds or spices or sometimes dried

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Speaker 2: fruit that are right like sugar coated, like like Jordan

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Speaker 2: almonds are a type of cumfeet and yeah, tasty.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay. Well. As mentioned in our shortbread episode, this

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Speaker 1: is also around the time that Mary, Queen of Scots,

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Speaker 1: allegedly enjoyed short bread flavored with caraway seeds and from

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Speaker 1: what I could find, A couple of bread type recipes

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Speaker 1: from this time out of the UK call for the

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Speaker 1: addition of caraway seeds.

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Speaker 2: Some were savory breads that used like straight caraway and

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Speaker 2: some were sweeter breads like kind of like like raised

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Speaker 2: biscuits or scones that used caraway cumfets.

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Speaker 1: And I will say I did go on an Irish

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Speaker 1: soda bread side quest and I got some very mixed

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Speaker 1: results about the history of adding in caraway seeds. It

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Speaker 1: sounds like not many people do that anymore. Listeners, please

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Speaker 1: write in whole episode.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I've had soda bread on the list for

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Speaker 2: quite a long time, I believe as a listener request.

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Speaker 2: So sorry, we haven't gotten to that in seven years, but.

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Speaker 1: We're working on It's.

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Speaker 2: Probably because I looked at it and was like, not today,

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Speaker 2: soda bread.

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Speaker 1: But anyway, yes.

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Speaker 2: As sugar became more available in Europe, caraway found its

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Speaker 2: way into more dessert recipes like cookies and cakes.

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Speaker 1: And then moving ahead, Europeans brought caraway seeds over to

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Speaker 1: the US during the seventeenth century. I couldn't find too

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Speaker 1: much about it outside of some spice blogs, which sounds

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Speaker 1: a little with sci fi knowledge sounds a little funny,

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Speaker 1: but according to to these blogs, these seeds were incorporated

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Speaker 1: into all kinds of things like soup, stews and sausages.

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Speaker 1: But that makes sense to me, but I couldn't really

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Speaker 1: find hard evidence. Well.

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Speaker 2: In eighteen forty one, a Swiss chemist isolated a flavor

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Speaker 2: molecule from Caraway seeds, which would later be named carbone caraveone.

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Speaker 2: That's probably it after Caraway. It's spicy MINTI it's actually

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Speaker 2: the key compound in spearmint and is also a major

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Speaker 2: compound of Caraway and Dill's flavors. Today, one version of

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Speaker 2: this molecule is either synthesized or extracted from mint and

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Speaker 2: used to flavor like a lot of mint candy and

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Speaker 2: gum and personal care products that are on the market.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, and I would say I couldn't find too much

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Speaker 1: about like modern day careway, But I will say a

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Speaker 1: lot of things I read made it sound like it's

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Speaker 1: it's having a moment, like people are rediscovering it, are

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Speaker 1: realizing how to cook with it or experimenting with it

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Speaker 1: more than they had previously been doing.

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Speaker 2: So that's what sounded like to me as well.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, get it, I guess.

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Speaker 2: It infuriates me in a way. Infuriates is a strong word,

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Speaker 2: but I'm sticking with it. How like some of these

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Speaker 2: very simple kind of staple, especially fruits and vegetables, and

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Speaker 2: like like Plant Matter episodes, you're kind of like, well,

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Speaker 2: and then I couldn't find anything else about it because

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Speaker 2: I guess people it was so omnipresent that either the

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Speaker 2: people weren't writing about it they were just like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: that's just that stuff that we have all the time.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, Or what happened to me a lot is I

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Speaker 1: would be like, oh, I found this whole book and

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Speaker 1: it would just be as a recipe ingredient. Oh, it

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Speaker 1: wouldn't be any further Okay, it was used in this recipe?

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Speaker 1: Got it cold? Cool? Or yeah?

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Speaker 2: Or like the thing with the human comparison, Cuman does

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Speaker 2: look very much like a slightly smaller version of caraway,

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Speaker 2: and there has been some historical confusion about which plant

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Speaker 2: people were talking about. There's another one from the Indian

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Speaker 2: subcontinent that is very similar that gets conflated.

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Speaker 1: So here we are, yes, here we are. But this

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Speaker 1: is where you listeners can help, because oh yeah, it

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Speaker 1: is used in all kinds of ways all over the world,

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Speaker 1: so please let us know. But I think that's what

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Speaker 1: we have to say about Caraway for now. I think

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Speaker 1: it is.

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Speaker 2: We do already have some listener mail for you, though,

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Speaker 2: and we will get into that as soon as we

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Speaker 2: get back from a quick break for a word from

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Speaker 2: our sponsors.

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Speaker 1: And we're back. Thank you, sponsor, Yes, thank you. And

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Speaker 1: we're back with smooth the seeds, even though I read

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Speaker 1: a lot of articles that were like, don't call them

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Speaker 1: Caroway seeds. Yeah, Like, well, all right, Carolyn wrote, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad that another listener wrote in about lab grown meat,

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Speaker 1: slash processing, etc. As I've been meaning to send in

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Speaker 1: a note about a really odd product that was marketed

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Speaker 1: to me on Instagram. There may be other brands, but

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Speaker 1: this particular one is called board Cow. The stick was

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Speaker 1: you should drink it to quote give cows a break,

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Speaker 1: but that it's also real dairy. It's basically lab grown milk,

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Speaker 1: and I don't have the grasp of the process necessary

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Speaker 1: to explain, but it does present an interesting question on

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Speaker 1: a few levels. The same as with meat. There were

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Speaker 1: also some people asking about alpha gel and it sounds

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Speaker 1: like it would still trigger a response, meaning it's genetically

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Speaker 1: the same as milk from a cow. Oh, the existential

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Speaker 1: question is lab created food if identical to the original

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Speaker 1: steel real? How do we define real food in the

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Speaker 1: modern age? Can milk that didn't come from a cow

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Speaker 1: be considered and labeled real dairy? I have been tempted

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Speaker 1: to order some out of curiosity, but it's prohibitively expensive.

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Speaker 2: Hmm.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and these are the questions that lawmakers

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Speaker 1: are particularly trying to define for us.

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Speaker 2: Yep, yeah, no, that's fascinating. I mean cool, it's cool

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Speaker 2: if that product exists. It's cool that whatever algorithm you're

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Speaker 2: living within it has decided to give that to you.

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Speaker 2: I haven't gotten that ad. I'm jealous of your algorithm.

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Speaker 2: But yeah, huh.

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Speaker 1: I had not heard of this. This is a new one.

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Speaker 1: Like I wasn't surprised when you sent it, but I

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Speaker 1: had never heard of it before.

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Speaker 2: I haven't heard of this brand. But doing our reading

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Speaker 2: for lab Ground Meat, I ran across lab Ground Dairy.

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Speaker 1: So yeah, interesting. Maybe maybe when we build up our

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Speaker 1: stamina again, Uh, we could more of a you problem, Lawrence,

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Speaker 1: you do the science, we can tackle this one. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I mean, y'all know, I love talking about milk.

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Speaker 2: It's just yeah, it's really interesting.

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Speaker 1: It is honest is but the questions are real.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, yeah, okay, all right, I'm setting that asad. Sorry,

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Speaker 2: I just went my brain was like what okay, No,

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Speaker 2: you can't google that right now? Down, It's okay, all right,

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Speaker 2: Bart wrote, as a Belgian expat living in Ireland, I

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Speaker 2: definitely have a foreigner's view of Gatorade. And before listening

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Speaker 2: to your episode, I thought I knew two things about Gatorade.

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Speaker 2: Turns out I only knew one thing about Gatorade, and

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Speaker 2: my respect for my beloved Lucazide has been deepened thanks

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Speaker 2: to the wonderful idiocracy. I knew Gatorade had electrolytes and

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Speaker 2: that they were just salt. I also thought I knew

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Speaker 2: that Lucazaide was just a British ripoff of Gatorade. A

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Speaker 2: boy was I surprised to learn Lucazaide came first earned

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Speaker 2: respect for my nearest neighbors on the island next door.

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Speaker 2: As a kid, I hated Lucazaide because their original flavor

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Speaker 2: literally what it's called now is much too sweet even

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Speaker 2: for kid and me, and it doesn't really taste of

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Speaker 2: anything recognizable. But in recent years I've fallen in love

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Speaker 2: with their zero sugar pink flavor because it doesn't call

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Speaker 2: out an ingredient in its branding. I just assumed it

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Speaker 2: was ruby grapefruit flavor or something, because it's a wonderful

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Speaker 2: mix of bitter and sweet. I only discovered its real

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Speaker 2: flavor a few weeks ago when I was put on

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Speaker 2: blood pressure meads that interact with grapefruit, destroying my weekend

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Speaker 2: breakfast routine and briefly interrupting my consumption of pink lucazaide. Thankfully,

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Speaker 2: before pouring my last few bottles down the sink, I

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Speaker 2: had the brain wave to read the ingredients. Turns out

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Speaker 2: it's not grapefruit flavor. It's actually lemon and cherry flavor,

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Speaker 2: which perfectly explains the sweet and sour flavor and means

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Speaker 2: the electric pink color might just be a little bit natural.

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Speaker 2: Maybe probably not.

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Speaker 1: I do love how we all are, Like I like

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Speaker 1: the blue wood. Yeah what flavor?

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Speaker 2: Is it not a blue blue?

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Speaker 1: Yeah?

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Speaker 2: Oh?

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Speaker 1: Live?

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Speaker 2: Yeah?

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Speaker 1: Oh delightful.

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Speaker 2: See I'm not from I don't think I've ever had

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Speaker 2: a lucas aide, so this is all.

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Speaker 1: News to me. I definitely haven't. I have to say

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Speaker 1: the Gatorade episode. A lot of people have written in about,

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Speaker 1: so keep writing in and I'm looking forward to share

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Speaker 1: some of those. I did have a conversation a lot

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Speaker 1: of times. I don't know if this is your experience, Lauren,

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Speaker 1: but sometimes when I go home, people are like, it's

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Speaker 1: like entertain me, almost, like tell me, tell me the

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Speaker 1: fact from something.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: And I brought out the grapefruit facts about oh some

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Speaker 1: medications like don't use grapefruit, and everybody was looking at

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Speaker 1: me like are you serious, no, yes, yes, oh yeah,

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Speaker 1: very serious. Grapefruit does not lake.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: It was a nice moment for me.

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Speaker 2: I'm glad. I'm glad you could help people out. I

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Speaker 2: hope they took it seriously and went and checked their meds. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: there's some that just don't get shared often enough.

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Speaker 1: It's I do.

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Speaker 2: I do also get kind of quizzed, like, especially if

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Speaker 2: someone is learning what I do for the first time,

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Speaker 2: They're like, oh, tell me something interesting, and I'm like, yeah,

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I don't.

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Speaker 1: I've forgotten all of that immediately. But yeah, great fruit

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Speaker 1: stuck with me for sure. But I'm glad you figured

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Speaker 1: out the real flavor and you didn't have this uh

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Speaker 1: tossed down the scene.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Also, I'm glad that there was actual flavors in

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Speaker 2: there that they could put on a label. How interesting.

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Speaker 1: It's very that's a nice, nice surprise. And we did

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Speaker 1: ask for the opinions of people outside of the US. Yeah, oh,

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Speaker 1: thank you, Thank you so much. Thanks to both of

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Speaker 1: these listeners for writing in. If you would like to

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Speaker 1: write to us, you can Our email is hello at

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Speaker 1: saborpod dot com.

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Speaker 2: We're also on social media. You can find us on

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Speaker 2: Blue Sky and Instagram. We are at saber Pod and

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Speaker 2: we do hope to hear from you. Savor is production

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Speaker 2: of iHeartRadio. For more podcasts from iHeartRadio, you can visit

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Speaker 2: the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you listen to

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Speaker 2: your favorite shows. Thanks as always to our super producers

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Speaker 2: Dylan Fagan and Andrew Howard. Thanks to you for listening,

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Speaker 2: and we hope that lots more good things are coming

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Speaker 2: your way.