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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: A missing mom's shoes, socks and jacket found, But where's Florence?

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Speaker 2: Good evening, I'm Nancy Grace. This is Crime Stories. Thank

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Speaker 2: you for being with us.

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Speaker 3: Missing in Alaska, young mom vanishes in the middle of

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Speaker 3: the day. Her family on a restless quest for answers.

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Speaker 2: Where is missing mom of Florence? Her disappearance haunting locals. Listen,

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Speaker 2: We load ourselves supports and take off.

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Speaker 4: No Miss.

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Speaker 5: One of those unforgettable spots in history.

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Speaker 3: It sits along the beach of the Baring Sea, just

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Speaker 3: under the Arctic Circle.

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Speaker 4: There's a lot of red flags waving, and they're not

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Speaker 4: choosing to recognize.

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Speaker 2: That red flags waving is certainly an understatement. That's where

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Speaker 2: our friend Payne Lindsay's podcast up and vanished The Midnight Sun.

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Speaker 2: How did the whole thing start?

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Speaker 1: Listen?

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Speaker 6: Just a few days after her thirty third birthday, Florence

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Speaker 6: goes to see her sister Blair at work. It isn't

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Speaker 6: unusual that Flow ignores Blair for a few hours after

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Speaker 6: their conversation, but concern grows when Blair learns Florence didn't

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Speaker 6: come home that night. Over the next two days, Blair

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Speaker 6: texts and calls Florence dozens of times, but all of

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Speaker 6: them go unanswered.

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Speaker 2: Joining me in All Star panel to make sense of

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Speaker 2: what we know regarding Florence's disappearance. But first straight out

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Speaker 2: to our friend Payne Lindsey, executive producer of Up and Vanished.

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Speaker 1: I've got a question, ka.

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Speaker 2: When Florence first goes missing, the sister is the one

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Speaker 2: that raised the alarm. She said it was very uncommon

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Speaker 2: for Florence to ignore her calls and texts.

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Speaker 1: Is that true?

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Speaker 7: That's very true. Yeah, she just fell off the map

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Speaker 7: completely and that was odd.

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Speaker 2: Joining us is Aila Johnson, a very close friend of Florence's.

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Speaker 1: When the sister.

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Speaker 2: Says how unusual it was for Florence to ignore calls

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Speaker 2: and text did you find that to be true as well?

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Speaker 1: Initially not entirely.

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Speaker 8: I kind of thought maybe her phone had died, but

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Speaker 8: you know, after several days then it was a deep,

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Speaker 8: true concern.

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Speaker 2: De Ailah Johnson joining us, very close friend of Florence.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to get a handle on Florence's personality now

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Speaker 2: she's a mother.

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Speaker 1: Would she often just vanish for days on end? I

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Speaker 1: mean so often?

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Speaker 2: Do Ailah I have her police tell anguished family of friends,

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Speaker 2: Oh she's at with her boyfriend or her new boyfriend.

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Speaker 2: There's not one, or she just wants some alone time

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Speaker 2: away from her children. From what I know of Florence,

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Speaker 2: I find that very hard to believe.

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Speaker 1: Was that her pattern. Would she go off for alone time?

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Speaker 8: No, But growing up in the nome geographic location, I

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Speaker 8: would say that, you know, sometimes people will go out

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Speaker 8: camping and you don't have reliable connection to communicate with

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Speaker 8: people that maybe.

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Speaker 2: Haven't heard from you in a day.

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Speaker 8: It's not uncommon for people to maybe kind of be

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Speaker 8: off grid, especially during that time of year. It's kind

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Speaker 8: of like the end of the summer, so people want

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Speaker 8: to try to get out of town as much.

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Speaker 9: As they can. So at first it wasn't super.

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Speaker 8: Alarming, but I know that a lot of people, mostly

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Speaker 8: the police department, would want to just kind of brush

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Speaker 8: it off, like it's no big deal.

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Speaker 2: So d'alla have you ever known Florence to go camping

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Speaker 2: or hiking ever her children behind where nobody knew how

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Speaker 2: to reach her.

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Speaker 8: No, I mean, she would have given someone a heads up.

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Speaker 8: This isn't routine for her to just disappear the way

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Speaker 8: that this had occurred.

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Speaker 2: So, Deilah, when you state that it wouldn't be uncommon

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Speaker 2: for people to go hiking or camping, actually it would

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Speaker 2: be uncommon for Florence to go hiking or camping without

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Speaker 2: her children, or leave at the very least, leaving them

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Speaker 2: with no idea where their mother was.

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Speaker 9: Correct.

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Speaker 2: How old are the children, may I ask Dihilah.

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Speaker 8: She has one daughter who is about to be eleven.

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Speaker 2: So Deilah, you're referring to her daughter, Aleithia. Did you

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Speaker 2: ever know of a single time, even once when Florence

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Speaker 2: left Alithia without knowing where she was not there to

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Speaker 2: take care of her, and people had to come over

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Speaker 2: and get the daughter.

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Speaker 1: No, never, So Payne Lindsay joining me the star of

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Speaker 1: up and vanished pain.

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Speaker 2: I'm trying to get a handle on the beginning of

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Speaker 2: the timeline, because, as you know, I like to start

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Speaker 2: all investigations with that. It could be from the last

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Speaker 2: time a text was received, if that's truly a text

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Speaker 2: from the victim, or in the oj Simpson case, it

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Speaker 2: could be where the neighbors hear the dog wailing in

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Speaker 2: the middle of the night when Nicole Brown was murdered.

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Speaker 2: So timelines are very tricky, but it seems like all

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Speaker 2: we've got to go on here, pain is when the

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Speaker 2: sister realized after a period of time that Florence wasn't responding.

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Speaker 1: Would you agree that's where we start the timeline.

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Speaker 7: Yeah, the timeline is money because it took several days

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Speaker 7: to realize that she's not responding, and then days have

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Speaker 7: gone by from likely the moment that she went missing.

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Speaker 1: Joining me is the director.

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Speaker 2: Of the Cold Case Foundation and more important, former homicide

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Speaker 2: detective who has worked over.

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Speaker 1: Three hundred homicides.

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Speaker 2: By the way, he trained the very first Native American

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Speaker 2: homicide task Force. He is the star of the YouTube

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Speaker 2: channel The Interview Room. Chris mcdonnah, thank you for being

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Speaker 2: with us. Explain in simple terms why establishing the exception

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Speaker 2: of the timeline is so important in cracking a missing

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Speaker 2: person or homicide case.

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Speaker 10: Yo, Nancy, So, what we would call that is an

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Speaker 10: initial victimology. So what we want to do is kind

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Speaker 10: of create this fact pattern in relationship to her life.

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Speaker 10: And we know for a fact that she has a

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Speaker 10: daughter at the time who's very young, and we can

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Speaker 10: take a look at that timeline of how she handled

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Speaker 10: that child and if there were any anomalies. We're raising

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Speaker 10: the girl, and then we get to that muddy timeline

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Speaker 10: that you're talking about.

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Speaker 2: Chris McDonough I said, terms no offense.

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Speaker 1: I mean.

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Speaker 2: We got to get out of inside ball and focus

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Speaker 2: on why the timeline is so important. I see it

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Speaker 2: like this, and tell me if I'm wrong. If I

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Speaker 2: could place her alive on a certain day, then I'm

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Speaker 2: not looking at who she was with the day before

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Speaker 2: or the week before. I need to know where she

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Speaker 2: was last seen, who she was with, where she was going.

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Speaker 2: I need to find pings on her phone starting then

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Speaker 2: that's where you start the investigation. Who was she with,

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Speaker 2: what was she doing? Was she in her car somebody

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Speaker 2: else's car? You can't spin your wheels in the wrong timeline.

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Speaker 1: Would you agree with that much?

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Speaker 8: Oh?

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Speaker 10: Yeah, I agree one hundred percent with everything you just said,

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Speaker 10: because that's the starting point that you can move forward,

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Speaker 10: and quite frankly, you can go backwards as well.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to Crimalline investigator Sydney Sumner.

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Speaker 11: Unable to get in touch with their sister, Blair posts

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Speaker 11: a Facebook asking if anyone seen Florence and starts looking

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Speaker 11: around town. Florence hasn't been to work or the grocery

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Speaker 11: store in neither a Lithia's father or her friends have

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Speaker 11: seen or heard from her. Whair feels like she's exhausted

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Speaker 11: all of her leads. When Naomi, a bartender at bored

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Speaker 11: In Trade, messages Blair, Naomi says she last saw Florence

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Speaker 11: on her birthday, but that a man in the bar

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Speaker 11: says he saw Florence on West Beach with a minor

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Speaker 11: the night she didn't come home.

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Speaker 2: Let's talk about the bar, joining me and you know

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Speaker 2: him well, our friend Payne Lindsey star up up and vanished,

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Speaker 2: who has focused on the disappearance of Florence. Tell me

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Speaker 2: about the bar. Why do so many of our cases

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Speaker 2: start at a bar?

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Speaker 7: Pain It sure does seem like it Innaom. This is

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Speaker 7: one of the few gathering places. Gnome is not a

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Speaker 7: huge place, but this bar is super old. It's been

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Speaker 7: there a long time and is right there on Front Street,

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Speaker 7: right near the water right downtown, a popular spot for

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Speaker 7: locals to go and even tourists to go. And she

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Speaker 7: was seen there and we know that because I went

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Speaker 7: myself with my team and I talked to patrons. I

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Speaker 7: also talked to the bartender who works there and she

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Speaker 7: recalls seeing her, and people have multiple witnesses have placed

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Speaker 7: her having been there before.

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Speaker 4: Leaving that night.

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Speaker 2: Can you tell me, Payne, was she there to meet

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Speaker 2: a friend? Was she there with girlfriends? So many things

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Speaker 2: can go wrong at a bar. What do we know

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Speaker 2: about what occurred at the bar? Did anyone notice anything

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Speaker 2: at all out of the ordinary?

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Speaker 7: Having talked to Florence's sister, it seemed like during the

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Speaker 7: time of her disappearance, when she would have been at

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Speaker 7: this bar, she was kind of going through her own

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Speaker 7: personal life struggles and was you know, expressing that to

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Speaker 7: other people around her friends Fai and she was there

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Speaker 7: by herself, but we know that she was also surrounded

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Speaker 7: by other individuals, all men who are gold miners, who

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Speaker 7: are essentially traveling through and they go in and they

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Speaker 7: go out and aren't from Nome, but are therefore Oh no.

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Speaker 1: Pain, you're telling me they're transience.

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Speaker 2: Absolutely okay, you're giving me a chill down my spine

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Speaker 2: yet again, Pain, You're famous for giving people chills down

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Speaker 2: their spines. Because I'm thinking of a case that you

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Speaker 2: and I have both covered out of Florida, Jennifer KESSI

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Speaker 2: because Kessie goes missing, You go into her place. The

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Speaker 2: parents go into her place the next day when she

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Speaker 2: doesn't answer calls, just like in this case, they find

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Speaker 2: where her clothes are laid out to go to work

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Speaker 2: the following morning, the showers actually still damp.

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Speaker 1: No sign of Jennifer. Where do transience fit into this?

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Speaker 1: You know where?

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Speaker 2: Because surrounding her condo was a lot of development down

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Speaker 2: in Florida and a lot of transience building the condos,

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Speaker 2: I mean, when they're gone, they're gone. Nobody has their name,

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Speaker 2: they're LKA last known addresses by.

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Speaker 1: Could they be witnesses?

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Speaker 2: Could they be perpetrators? They could be either of those.

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Speaker 2: So you're telling me many people in the bar that

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Speaker 2: night are a mail and don't fight with me about

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Speaker 2: this pain. We all know that the perp, if there

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Speaker 2: is one, is likely a male. Statistically, don't start with

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Speaker 2: women can kidnap.

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Speaker 1: And murder too. I know that, But I'm telling you

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Speaker 1: that's not what happened. So she's at a bar pain.

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Speaker 1: According to you, you've been to the bar that night.

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Speaker 2: She's surrounded by a lot of guys, and many of

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Speaker 2: them are transient miners. Is that right?

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Speaker 1: That's a recipe for disaster.

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Speaker 7: Pain, lindsay, that's absolutely correct, and it was a recipe

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Speaker 7: for disaster because that's the last known place.

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Speaker 2: Hey, Pain, when you went in the bar. Tell me

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Speaker 2: about the bar. It's what's it like? I mean, honestly,

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Speaker 2: it's a super small place. It's old, it's dusty. You

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Speaker 2: have some locals in there who seem like they spend

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Speaker 2: you know, half their days in there.

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Speaker 7: You have a couple random people who are visiting, and

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Speaker 7: it seems like a consistent bar clientele that circles in

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Speaker 7: and out.

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Speaker 2: Pain. I like that part because, yeah, that means if

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Speaker 2: you see the same people like Cheers, right, yea Cheers,

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Speaker 2: you know everybody, and they would know her and they

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Speaker 2: could give me some leads.

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Speaker 7: Right, you'd think, so yeah, unless that person was harboring

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Speaker 7: a secret.

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Speaker 2: You know, Pain, I've come to be very suspicious when

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Speaker 2: you say things like you'd think, so, okay, who is Florence.

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Speaker 1: Let's look at that. Who is Florence?

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Speaker 2: Can looking at her at her standard routine, her personality

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Speaker 2: even give me a clue. Listen Florence's flow.

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Speaker 6: Akpilook is the youngest of seven siblings, raised in the

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Speaker 6: small village of Wales, Alaska. Florence learns to practice subsistence,

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Speaker 6: just as inu ancestors lived off the land.

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Speaker 2: But when Florence.

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Speaker 6: Learns she is expecting a baby girl, she decides to

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Speaker 6: move about one hundred miles south to the larger city

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Speaker 6: of Nome so her daughter has better access to healthcare

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Speaker 6: and education.

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Speaker 1: Her daughter her whole world.

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Speaker 2: She's even willing to maybe one hundred miles away for

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Speaker 2: a better life for her daughter.

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Speaker 1: What more do we know?

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Speaker 12: Lawrence gets a job working in the hospital with Norton

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Speaker 12: Sound Health Corporation and is a wonderful mother to a Lithia,

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Speaker 12: now six years old. Florence is well known and well

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Speaker 12: liked in Nome and becomes close with siblings that live

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Speaker 12: in Nome, a brother and a sister, Blair, who is

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Speaker 12: now expecting a baby of her own. Florence has plenty

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Speaker 12: of friends to celebrate with her for her birthday, stopping

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Speaker 12: in at Board of Trade, one of the oldest bars

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Speaker 12: in town.

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Speaker 3: Authorities on a desperate mission to find a missing Alaskan mom.

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Speaker 3: As the FBI joins.

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Speaker 6: The search, Blair reports Florence missing at six fifteen PM

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Speaker 6: that evening, two days after she last saw her sister

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Speaker 6: two days after the report, searches begin for the young mom.

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Speaker 6: Nome PD and dozens of volunteers go up and down

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Speaker 6: West Beach searching for any sign of Florence. FBI agents

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Speaker 6: and canine units eventually join the search, and one more

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Speaker 6: piece of Florence's clothing is discovered, but there's no other

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Speaker 6: leads on Florence.

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Speaker 2: Ocpolok socks and ses left behind of a missing mom.

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Speaker 1: But where is Florence?

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Speaker 3: You may be.

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Speaker 1: Sitting down, but you may need to lay down.

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Speaker 2: Wrote what you're about to hear the working theory of

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Speaker 2: the local PD. Brace yourself, listen well.

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Speaker 12: There are many theories on what happened to Florence Akpelock.

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Speaker 12: Nome PD has released very few details on their investigation.

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Speaker 12: Their only official theory is a bear attack and they

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Speaker 12: simply haven't found the body. The public has very little

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Speaker 12: trust in the department, which struggles remain staffed. Chief William

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Speaker 12: Crockett agrees to an interview with Payne Lindsay, but isn't

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Speaker 12: in the office at the agreed upon time, then fails

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Speaker 12: to return any calls afterwards. The FBI assisted with searches

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Speaker 12: shortly after Florence's disappearance, but agents now direct anyone looking

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Speaker 12: for information on her case back to nome PD.

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Speaker 2: Okay, let me understand this. The working theory is that

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Speaker 2: Florence died of a bear attack. Well, let me get

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Speaker 2: straight out to a veteran trial lawyer, Randolph Rice, joining

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Speaker 2: us former prosecutor, current criminal defense attorney, no stranger to

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Speaker 2: a courtroom, and what that means is he knows evidence, really, Randolph,

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Speaker 2: So you're going to defend a case like this, And

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Speaker 2: the theory is what that mommy took off for socks

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Speaker 2: before the bear ate her.

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Speaker 13: Yeah, this looks like the non police apartments attempt to

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Speaker 13: sort of push this under the rug because they can't

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Speaker 13: seem to put together the evidence that they need to

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Speaker 13: ultimately say what happened to Florence. You know, nobody leaves

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Speaker 13: the scene with their socks and their shoes and their

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Speaker 13: clothes just it doesn't make sense, which leans to the

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Speaker 13: probability that this was foul play, and therefore the known

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Speaker 13: police department needs to follow that foul play trail of evidence.

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Speaker 1: Somebody needs to put a fire under their rear.

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Speaker 8: End.

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Speaker 2: Angela Arnold, excuse me, doctor Angela Arnold joining us renowned

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Speaker 2: psychiatrists out of the Atlanta jurisdiction, whose expertise is focusing

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Speaker 2: on the mental and emotional welfare of women. Doctor Arnold,

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Speaker 2: do you ever get tired of police investigators? Ellie in

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Speaker 2: general law enforcement? And I am former law enforcement. Okay,

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Speaker 2: so this is a bitter peal for me to swallow.

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Speaker 2: When a woman goes missing, they say, oh, she's having

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Speaker 2: a time. She is with her whoever, you can fill

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Speaker 2: in the blank. Ex boyfriend, lover. What hold up in

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Speaker 2: some hotel having a great time while her daughter's sitting

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Speaker 2: at home trying to find something to eat.

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Speaker 1: But here they really take the cake, doctor Angela.

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Speaker 2: They say, a bear ate her. I mean, if I

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Speaker 2: were her family, I would want to go burn down

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Speaker 2: the police department a bear. Yeah.

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Speaker 14: And you know, Nancy in they're wasting time, And everybody

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Speaker 14: knows how important those those first minutes and days are

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Speaker 14: in finding someone that has gone missing. Why don't they

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Speaker 14: If that's all they have to offer to the situation,

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Speaker 14: then they just need to keep their mouths shut, because Nancy,

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Speaker 14: that is the least helpful thing that anyone could have

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Speaker 14: said in this Okay, So, now this poor woman has

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Speaker 14: been missing, any kind of evidence is gone, and all

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Speaker 14: the police can come up with.

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Speaker 1: By the minute.

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Speaker 2: Yes, hey, the evidence is evaporating. Pain. Lens that you

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Speaker 2: heard what doctor Angela Arnold had to say. Pain. Is

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Speaker 2: this really a working theory?

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Speaker 1: No wonder the share of hid?

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Speaker 2: What was he under his desk when you went.

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Speaker 7: To interview, he was back there hiding somewhere. I mean,

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Speaker 7: I just wish that they would shoot me straight. The

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Speaker 7: job of just talking about this case with a journalist

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Speaker 7: isn't that complicated, But they made it complicated because I

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Speaker 7: think that they're embarrassed so pain.

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Speaker 2: Hey, guys, if you don't know, Payne Lindsay, got to

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Speaker 2: listen to his podcast Up and Vanished. He was incredible

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Speaker 2: on the Tara Grinstead case. And here's his new one

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Speaker 2: in the Midnight Sun, referring to, of course this case

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Speaker 2: in no pain. How can they say with a straight

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Speaker 2: face a bear did it?

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Speaker 7: Well, they don't say it with a straight face.

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Speaker 2: They hide their face.

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Speaker 7: Actually, if you try to ask them that question in person,

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Speaker 7: they'll say, yeah, i'll meet you tomorrow and then they'll

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Speaker 7: dodge you. I don't know how anyone.

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Speaker 2: Could say that with a straight face.

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Speaker 7: Bears don't eat jeans and shoes and cell phones and

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Speaker 7: stuff like that.

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Speaker 2: That's ridiculous, Paine. I'm sorry I have to correct you

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Speaker 2: on air, but this was a very picky bear.

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Speaker 1: He took off her shoes and socks. He didn't eat them, right.

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Speaker 2: I mean how they can say this with a straight face.

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Speaker 2: Of course, as Payne Lindsay accurately points out, they don't

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Speaker 2: say it with a straight face. They hide when they

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Speaker 2: say things like.

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Speaker 1: A bear ate her.

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Speaker 2: Deilah Johnson joining us, a very dear friend of Florence'silah,

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Speaker 2: did you hear this wacky zany theory that a bear

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Speaker 2: ate her? Unfortunately?

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Speaker 8: I hear that as a resolution to several missing people,

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Speaker 8: because it seems as though that's a really easy way

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Speaker 8: to put a resolution on any missing person in our area.

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Speaker 2: Well, Deilah Johnson is exactly correct. A bear eight fill

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Speaker 2: in the blank seems to be the go to for

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Speaker 2: local law enforces. This would be laughable if a mother

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Speaker 2: wasn't missing, and I suspect very strongly that she has

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Speaker 2: been murdered. Does the name Joseph Baldaras ring a bell?

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Speaker 2: If not, it will now listen.

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Speaker 11: Joseph Baldaras works a gnome as the law clerk and

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Speaker 11: is an avid outdoorsman who loves hiking, running, and fishing

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Speaker 11: out in the country. Joseph always responds to his fiancee,

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Speaker 11: Meghan's text as quickly as possible, but Saturday morning, Joseph

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Speaker 11: stops answering her. When Joseph doesn't show up for work

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Speaker 11: Monday morning, his family knows something is seriously wrong. That afternoon,

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Speaker 11: Joseph's truck is found backed into a pullout forty four

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Speaker 11: miles from town. Searches turn up nothing, and Joseph's roommate

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Speaker 11: is caught lying to police about his whereabouts Friday and

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Speaker 11: on Saturday night, but authorities truck is disappearance up to

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Speaker 11: a bear attack.

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Speaker 2: Okay, apparently the bear can drive because the bear backed

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Speaker 2: the victim's vehicle into a pullout.

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Speaker 1: And there's more.

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Speaker 2: Take a listen to our friends at ktv F.

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Speaker 5: A search dog unit alerted to bowl there is sent

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Speaker 5: about a mile down the road from his truck, but

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Speaker 5: lost the trails soon after. Search pilots reported a noticeable

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Speaker 5: amount of bear activity in the area, but his family

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Speaker 5: suggested that they suspect fellow play pain.

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Speaker 1: Help me, How can this stand?

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Speaker 2: How can one case after the next be attributed to

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Speaker 2: quote bear activity. There's no evidence. You recall you and

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Speaker 2: I have discussed me to many times the case of

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Speaker 2: Susanne Morphew, where it's claimed that a while animal dragged

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Speaker 2: her off. There's no sign of animal activity. There's no blood,

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Speaker 2: there's no drag marks which you would find if this

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Speaker 2: had happened. There is no half eaten carcass, there are

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Speaker 2: no bones, there's no other clothing, nothing to suggest that happened.

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Speaker 2: In any of the three cases we're talking about right now,

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Speaker 2: specifically with.

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Speaker 7: Florence, it's just an easy cop out response. I mean,

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Speaker 7: the thing is, like you said, if this is their theory,

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Speaker 7: usually a theory is backed by some sort of information

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Speaker 7: that supports that. I would entertain the bear theory if

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Speaker 7: there was any evidence at all that suggested that.

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Speaker 2: But there isn't.

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Speaker 4: There's nothing, So.

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Speaker 7: That's just a blanket excuse answer for basically, in other words,

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Speaker 7: I don't know, or we screwed.

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Speaker 3: Up Florence our pe luck. Last scene leaving a tent

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Speaker 3: on Alaska's West Beach, her family desperate for answers.

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Speaker 2: Leaving a tent on the beach, Well, that's odd because

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Speaker 2: when does it say she was last seen at a bar?

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Speaker 1: Or was she with a ba Listen.

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Speaker 11: Payne Lindsay, host of the Up and Vanish podcast, travels

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Speaker 11: to Nome to investigate Florence's disappearance. Lindsay gets in contact

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Speaker 11: with Naomi, the bartender from Bored and Trade, who got

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Speaker 11: the tip from a patron that Florence was last seen

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Speaker 11: on West Beach. Naomi says the man came to know

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Speaker 11: him as a freelance gold miner, but also drove a

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Speaker 11: taxi in town for Checkers Cabs. The man resided in

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Speaker 11: a tent on West Beach. Naomi only knew him as

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Speaker 11: Oregon John to a very.

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Speaker 2: Dear friend, Florence's Jailah Johnson, author of One on One Dailah,

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Speaker 2: is that common that the transient miners that come to

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Speaker 2: them live in tent villages?

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Speaker 8: Yes, the entire summer. The population of No Malaska fluctuates

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Speaker 8: probably two thousand during the summer, so that people think

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Speaker 8: that they're going to know him to get rich.

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Speaker 2: Okay, that's not helpful at all, Dilah. I'm not saying

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Speaker 2: it's not true. I know it to be true what

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Speaker 2: you just said. But to Chris McDonough joining me veteran

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Speaker 2: homicide detective, not helpful at all that there is an

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Speaker 2: entire transient village and that's not the first place police

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Speaker 2: went or sheriffs went. Everyone else in that bar, according

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Speaker 2: to Payne Lindsay, is likely a local except for the transience. Okay,

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Speaker 2: So when you throw into a situation Chris mcdonoughh one variable,

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Speaker 2: and that being transience at the bar that night, that's

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Speaker 2: where you go. The rest of the world doesn't understand

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Speaker 2: that this is normal. For no and other mining areas.

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Speaker 2: People flood in for a mining season and then they disappear,

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Speaker 2: just like transience disappeared from the Jennifer Kessey scene.

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Speaker 1: They're there for the work.

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Speaker 2: And then they leave, and once they leave, you'll never

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Speaker 2: find them again.

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Speaker 9: Yeah.

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Speaker 10: Absolutely, And that point of contact I e. Where these

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00:25:10,720 --> 00:25:15,560
Speaker 10: old transients go, I E. The bar potentially. But more importantly,

445
00:25:16,280 --> 00:25:17,960
Speaker 10: one of the things I want to point out, Nancy,

446
00:25:18,000 --> 00:25:22,360
Speaker 10: that you mentioned is there's a witness that says, you know, well,

447
00:25:22,440 --> 00:25:25,080
Speaker 10: she was last seen on the beach with a minor

448
00:25:26,080 --> 00:25:28,840
Speaker 10: coming out of a tent. Well that individual just put

449
00:25:28,920 --> 00:25:33,200
Speaker 10: themselves at the beach watching her come out of a tent.

450
00:25:33,359 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 10: So that's a huge red flag. If it's the same

451
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,880
Speaker 10: guy there, you go, let's start from there.

452
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:43,320
Speaker 2: Man, you are so right, Payne Lindsay joining me, host

453
00:25:43,359 --> 00:25:47,359
Speaker 2: of up and Vanas, who has been investigating Florence's disappearance,

454
00:25:47,400 --> 00:25:50,000
Speaker 2: even traveling to know to find out what he could

455
00:25:50,200 --> 00:25:54,240
Speaker 2: and trying to confront local La who basically hid from him.

456
00:25:55,400 --> 00:25:59,359
Speaker 2: So the bartender, the female bartender, Naomi at the Board

457
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:03,520
Speaker 2: and Trade, get's a tip that Florence's last seen on

458
00:26:03,560 --> 00:26:06,480
Speaker 2: West Beach. What else did she learn?

459
00:26:06,640 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 1: Pain?

460
00:26:07,200 --> 00:26:10,720
Speaker 7: She learned that she was with a specific individual who

461
00:26:11,080 --> 00:26:16,159
Speaker 7: she knew by a nickname, a pseudonym. Oregon John was

462
00:26:16,200 --> 00:26:16,640
Speaker 7: his name.

463
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:21,960
Speaker 2: What can you tell me about clothing? About Florence's clothing

464
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:23,160
Speaker 2: being found?

465
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:27,280
Speaker 7: So, Oregon John was a minor like several others who

466
00:26:27,359 --> 00:26:30,360
Speaker 7: were camped out on this area of West Beach, and

467
00:26:31,600 --> 00:26:34,440
Speaker 7: at nighttime they would kind of have parties and stuff there,

468
00:26:34,760 --> 00:26:40,080
Speaker 7: and they were all transient people. Flows items, her personal items,

469
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:45,880
Speaker 7: her clothing was found outside of this man's tent. And

470
00:26:46,040 --> 00:26:50,679
Speaker 7: when someone goes missing and you have her things in

471
00:26:50,720 --> 00:26:55,920
Speaker 7: your possession, it would be common sense to ask this

472
00:26:56,000 --> 00:26:59,760
Speaker 7: person what the hell happened? But that was never done

473
00:27:00,119 --> 00:27:02,680
Speaker 7: in an official capacity. In this case, pay.

474
00:27:02,480 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 2: When you say her items are you talking about the

475
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,919
Speaker 2: socks as we've heard about, Are you talking about her

476
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:08,960
Speaker 2: bra and underwear?

477
00:27:09,119 --> 00:27:10,240
Speaker 1: What was found?

478
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:14,199
Speaker 7: There's mixed conflicting reports of that because initially it was

479
00:27:14,359 --> 00:27:17,840
Speaker 7: FLOE's family who was out there searching, and they're the

480
00:27:17,840 --> 00:27:21,040
Speaker 7: ones who discovered that any of her items at all

481
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:25,479
Speaker 7: were in this man's possession, but he willingly gave it

482
00:27:25,520 --> 00:27:30,440
Speaker 7: over to the police and to the family. The fact

483
00:27:30,440 --> 00:27:34,280
Speaker 7: that he has anything of hers at all is strange

484
00:27:34,560 --> 00:27:37,560
Speaker 7: because that's the last place she was. Why would she

485
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:39,920
Speaker 7: not leave with her clothes on?

486
00:27:40,160 --> 00:27:43,879
Speaker 6: Blair and several family members canvas West Beach, asking anyone

487
00:27:43,960 --> 00:27:47,000
Speaker 6: who will talk to them about Florence. Eventually, a man

488
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,440
Speaker 6: says he saw Florence leaving a nearby tent a round

489
00:27:49,480 --> 00:27:52,280
Speaker 6: four pm. The man asks Blair to wait a moment

490
00:27:52,359 --> 00:27:56,680
Speaker 6: and rummages around inside his tent. He returns with Florence's socks, shoes,

491
00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,800
Speaker 6: and jacket. Bewildered, Blair asked where Florence is and why

492
00:28:00,840 --> 00:28:03,600
Speaker 6: he has her things. The man seems to clam up,

493
00:28:03,600 --> 00:28:06,399
Speaker 6: but insists he did not bring Florence to West Beach

494
00:28:06,640 --> 00:28:09,160
Speaker 6: and he found her belongings outside his tent.

495
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:14,680
Speaker 3: Where is Florence? Uck pluck, the mom last seen leaving

496
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,880
Speaker 3: a gold miner's tent before vanishing into the Alaskan wilderness.

497
00:28:20,440 --> 00:28:23,920
Speaker 2: At the bar on the beach in a tent. Then

498
00:28:24,200 --> 00:28:30,920
Speaker 2: we hear disturbing reports about a very eerie phone call

499
00:28:31,400 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 2: made by Florence that night.

500
00:28:34,359 --> 00:28:37,360
Speaker 11: Listen Gnome Pedi also follows up with the man who

501
00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,960
Speaker 11: gave Blair some of Florence's clothing. The man gives cops

502
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,120
Speaker 11: the same story of finding her belongings outside his tent

503
00:28:44,400 --> 00:28:48,240
Speaker 11: and turns over one more item, Florence's cell phone. Law

504
00:28:48,320 --> 00:28:51,640
Speaker 11: enforcement never publicly divulges if anything found on the phone

505
00:28:51,680 --> 00:28:54,959
Speaker 11: provided new leads, but according to a local with friends

506
00:28:54,960 --> 00:28:57,800
Speaker 11: on the search and rescue team, Florence made a troubling

507
00:28:57,840 --> 00:29:00,680
Speaker 11: call to a friend that night, saying, I'm in the

508
00:29:00,680 --> 00:29:03,960
Speaker 11: bushes with some people. They're passing something around and I

509
00:29:04,040 --> 00:29:05,320
Speaker 11: don't feel safe.

510
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:10,000
Speaker 2: With my close friend of Florence's, her confidant Deilah Johnson,

511
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:14,600
Speaker 2: author of one of our own Danna, thank you for

512
00:29:14,640 --> 00:29:16,960
Speaker 2: being with us. What do you know about this phone

513
00:29:16,960 --> 00:29:18,880
Speaker 2: call made by Florence?

514
00:29:19,440 --> 00:29:25,360
Speaker 8: That it's terrifying that it does kind of provide more

515
00:29:25,400 --> 00:29:29,640
Speaker 8: than just speculation on what maybe had occurred, that evening to.

516
00:29:29,840 --> 00:29:34,320
Speaker 2: Payne Lindsay, who has been investigating Florence's disappearance. Payne, what

517
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,040
Speaker 2: do we know about the call? Who did she call?

518
00:29:37,160 --> 00:29:41,440
Speaker 2: And how do you decipher what she said? She was clearly.

519
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:47,240
Speaker 7: Scared, she was in a state of distress, and she

520
00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:51,920
Speaker 7: names being with multiple individuals. Now I know these people's names.

521
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,240
Speaker 7: I have not publicly stated all of them because sometimes

522
00:29:56,240 --> 00:30:01,040
Speaker 7: I'm still talking to but collect actively. Here you have

523
00:30:01,120 --> 00:30:04,120
Speaker 7: a group of men who were the last people to

524
00:30:04,200 --> 00:30:10,080
Speaker 7: see Florence alive and then she simply vanishes. These people

525
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,760
Speaker 7: need to be questioned by law enforcement. The fact that

526
00:30:13,800 --> 00:30:16,520
Speaker 7: they haven't been is ridiculous.

527
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:21,200
Speaker 2: I mean, it's like the Terry Grinsday case all over again. Well,

528
00:30:21,320 --> 00:30:25,160
Speaker 2: can you tell me about another conflicting story? Pain a

529
00:30:25,240 --> 00:30:30,560
Speaker 2: story that another witness states that Florence was with his

530
00:30:30,600 --> 00:30:35,040
Speaker 2: neighbor the night before, driving on the beach on an

531
00:30:35,120 --> 00:30:39,440
Speaker 2: ATV all terrain vehicle, and then the witness sees the

532
00:30:39,480 --> 00:30:43,800
Speaker 2: neighbor returning and Florence wasn't there.

533
00:30:43,840 --> 00:30:44,920
Speaker 1: It was just the neighbor.

534
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,840
Speaker 7: Bottom line is you can sit here and look at

535
00:30:47,880 --> 00:30:51,920
Speaker 7: all the different conflicting stories and theories. When you whittle

536
00:30:51,960 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 7: it all down, which I've done my best to do here.

537
00:30:55,520 --> 00:30:59,560
Speaker 15: What stays true is that she was at the bar,

538
00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:02,960
Speaker 15: then she left and went to West Beach, no matter

539
00:31:03,080 --> 00:31:06,040
Speaker 15: how she got there, and she has never been seen

540
00:31:06,080 --> 00:31:06,560
Speaker 15: since then.

541
00:31:06,680 --> 00:31:08,360
Speaker 1: Do you believe those witnesses pain?

542
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:13,680
Speaker 7: I believe that the timing of everything may not be perfect, right.

543
00:31:14,400 --> 00:31:16,920
Speaker 7: I think that the bottom line is she was there.

544
00:31:17,000 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 7: There's physical evidence that she was there. Her stuff is there,

545
00:31:20,680 --> 00:31:22,720
Speaker 7: so we know for the fact that she was there

546
00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,920
Speaker 7: and people saw her correct and it was outside of

547
00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,080
Speaker 7: a specific tint, not just any tent.

548
00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,000
Speaker 2: We know whose tint it was. Why do you have

549
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:33,080
Speaker 2: her stuff?

550
00:31:33,400 --> 00:31:37,200
Speaker 7: I don't have any missing person's stuff outside of my tent.

551
00:31:37,560 --> 00:31:42,000
Speaker 2: To make matters even more heartbreaking. In addition to what Payne,

552
00:31:42,040 --> 00:31:46,400
Speaker 2: Lindsay accurately points out that none of these witnesses have

553
00:31:46,520 --> 00:31:50,360
Speaker 2: been questioned, much less under oath. Many of them gone

554
00:31:50,560 --> 00:31:54,840
Speaker 2: dispersed at the end of the season. The family, they're

555
00:31:54,880 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 2: the ones that are out searching for Florence. Listen.

556
00:31:58,960 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 12: After two weeks with no leads from West Beach, law

557
00:32:01,760 --> 00:32:05,960
Speaker 12: enforcement agencies suspend their searches. Florence's family returns to beach

558
00:32:06,080 --> 00:32:09,280
Speaker 12: every day for eight months, refusing to give up on Florence,

559
00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 12: but felt that someone didn't want them searching there. Family

560
00:32:12,600 --> 00:32:15,440
Speaker 12: members have several videos of two men in a black

561
00:32:15,480 --> 00:32:18,360
Speaker 12: truck following them as they search along the beach. In

562
00:32:18,400 --> 00:32:20,800
Speaker 12: one incident, the passenger sticks a gun out of the

563
00:32:20,840 --> 00:32:23,840
Speaker 12: window and fire shots in the air. Nome PD seems

564
00:32:23,880 --> 00:32:26,360
Speaker 12: to brush off their concerns and ask the family to

565
00:32:26,520 --> 00:32:28,480
Speaker 12: back off and let them do their job.

566
00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:32,960
Speaker 2: Payne lindsay, in addition to the time that the local ELI,

567
00:32:32,960 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 2: I guess the sheriff didn't show up for an interview.

568
00:32:36,680 --> 00:32:41,360
Speaker 2: It's an eerie reminder for me the Natalie Holloway case.

569
00:32:42,440 --> 00:32:45,160
Speaker 2: Beth Twitty and I went back, as you know, to

570
00:32:45,360 --> 00:32:49,840
Speaker 2: Aruba to try to scare up some more leads, and

571
00:32:49,920 --> 00:32:53,440
Speaker 2: it was there we drove by a structure pain and

572
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:57,719
Speaker 2: she said, yeah, I sat in there for five hours

573
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 2: waiting to speak to the chief of police. They told

574
00:33:00,640 --> 00:33:02,680
Speaker 2: me he was at the barber shop. They told me this.

575
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:06,280
Speaker 2: They told me that after five hours, he walks out,

576
00:33:06,360 --> 00:33:10,920
Speaker 2: not realizing she's still sitting there rubbing his stomach because

577
00:33:10,960 --> 00:33:13,880
Speaker 2: they had just brought him food so he wouldn't have

578
00:33:13,920 --> 00:33:14,440
Speaker 2: to see her.

579
00:33:14,480 --> 00:33:17,560
Speaker 1: He ate in his office and then ran into her.

580
00:33:18,080 --> 00:33:21,880
Speaker 2: I mean that sounds like what's happening now with them

581
00:33:22,360 --> 00:33:24,560
Speaker 2: ducking you. As a matter of fact, you're not the

582
00:33:24,600 --> 00:33:26,200
Speaker 2: only one he's ducking.

583
00:33:26,520 --> 00:33:27,160
Speaker 1: Listen pain.

584
00:33:27,600 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 11: Months into the search for Florence, Aunc Piollok, her best

585
00:33:30,840 --> 00:33:33,560
Speaker 11: friend to Aila, and sister Blair hold a march for

586
00:33:33,720 --> 00:33:37,520
Speaker 11: missing and murdered Indigenous people through downtown Nome, ending in

587
00:33:37,560 --> 00:33:41,080
Speaker 11: a local genesium for several speakers to highlight their loved ones.

588
00:33:41,560 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 11: While Blair speaks expressing concern for the lack of police

589
00:33:45,040 --> 00:33:49,160
Speaker 11: investigation through heart wrenching sobs. The Nome PD chief makes

590
00:33:49,160 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 11: an appearance, shocking the crowd, but the chief isn't there

591
00:33:53,120 --> 00:33:56,120
Speaker 11: for the event. He calmly walks past the crowd to

592
00:33:56,160 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 11: the gym equipment for his workout.

593
00:33:58,480 --> 00:33:59,920
Speaker 1: Geolo Johnson tell me what.

594
00:34:01,000 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 9: That was A.

595
00:34:03,600 --> 00:34:07,440
Speaker 8: I mean, when we gather to support and honor any

596
00:34:07,640 --> 00:34:13,080
Speaker 8: mmi w G or m MIP individual as natives, you know,

597
00:34:13,120 --> 00:34:16,319
Speaker 8: we it's a It's already a challenging time because we

598
00:34:16,360 --> 00:34:18,800
Speaker 8: are having to honor those that aren't with us anymore,

599
00:34:19,000 --> 00:34:20,400
Speaker 8: and a lot of the time there's a lot of

600
00:34:20,400 --> 00:34:27,640
Speaker 8: systemic injustice. But when we were specifically honoring managing Florence Socpiollock,

601
00:34:28,840 --> 00:34:31,319
Speaker 8: and then we also noticed that the chief is there

602
00:34:31,360 --> 00:34:38,560
Speaker 8: for a workout. That was also just heartrenching for us,

603
00:34:38,640 --> 00:34:40,120
Speaker 8: because we would love.

604
00:34:40,040 --> 00:34:40,680
Speaker 9: To have.

605
00:34:42,200 --> 00:34:45,839
Speaker 8: The entire community, all law enforcement, search and rescue, all

606
00:34:45,840 --> 00:34:49,760
Speaker 8: community leaders, all people within the community come together because

607
00:34:50,000 --> 00:34:52,600
Speaker 8: we all it's an isolated area, and so if we

608
00:34:52,600 --> 00:34:56,920
Speaker 8: can all help one another and support one another, I

609
00:34:56,920 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 8: think there would be there would be better relationships, and

610
00:35:01,719 --> 00:35:05,000
Speaker 8: the lack of trust probably wouldn't be such a stain

611
00:35:05,320 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 8: on the community.

612
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:11,160
Speaker 2: Members PAYLUSA just having a horrible time understanding the sheriff.

613
00:35:11,400 --> 00:35:14,920
Speaker 2: While family and friends are out there bringing awareness to

614
00:35:14,920 --> 00:35:19,960
Speaker 2: Florence's disappearance, he walks up like he's going to the

615
00:35:20,080 --> 00:35:23,080
Speaker 2: vigil and it just keeps walking and goes to the

616
00:35:23,120 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 2: gym to work out.

617
00:35:24,120 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 7: I mean, come on, bro, even if giving him the

618
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:31,880
Speaker 7: benefit of the doubt, that is just the biggest lack

619
00:35:31,960 --> 00:35:35,120
Speaker 7: of awareness I've ever seen. Clearly, you do not care

620
00:35:35,200 --> 00:35:38,360
Speaker 7: about this case. Clearly, if you didn't know this was happening,

621
00:35:38,760 --> 00:35:42,600
Speaker 7: you're not actively investigating it. All that tells me is

622
00:35:42,640 --> 00:35:45,799
Speaker 7: that hand over the damn case file then, because you're

623
00:35:45,800 --> 00:35:49,720
Speaker 7: not doing anything about it and you're comfortable being rude

624
00:35:49,760 --> 00:35:53,200
Speaker 7: in public and sending this strange message to people who

625
00:35:53,200 --> 00:35:56,520
Speaker 7: are fighting for justice right here out in the open

626
00:35:56,840 --> 00:35:57,880
Speaker 7: in your own town.

627
00:35:58,400 --> 00:36:02,080
Speaker 1: Take a listen to up and banished the midnight Sun.

628
00:36:02,640 --> 00:36:03,280
Speaker 9: There we are.

629
00:36:04,080 --> 00:36:08,759
Speaker 16: He took a beautiful person from this earth. I hope

630
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 16: you feel horrible and you feel guilty. I love you.

631
00:36:13,800 --> 00:36:15,200
Speaker 11: Okay.

632
00:36:17,200 --> 00:36:20,520
Speaker 4: There's actual facts that need to be run to ground,

633
00:36:20,600 --> 00:36:23,880
Speaker 4: that need to be looked into because they're very.

634
00:36:23,719 --> 00:36:37,719
Speaker 2: Suspicious crime stories with Nancy Grace. Who is this so

635
00:36:37,840 --> 00:36:43,280
Speaker 2: called Oregon John, his moniker that was last scene with Florence.

636
00:36:43,360 --> 00:36:45,560
Speaker 1: Well, this is what we've learned about him.

637
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:50,280
Speaker 11: It turns out Oregon John has ninety three arrests in Gnome.

638
00:36:50,719 --> 00:36:55,440
Speaker 11: The charges include everything from disorderly conduct, criminal trespass, harassment,

639
00:36:55,560 --> 00:37:00,239
Speaker 11: probation violation, and cruelty to animals to theft's assaults and

640
00:37:00,320 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 11: two rapes. Oregon John appears to be very dangerous, and

641
00:37:04,600 --> 00:37:08,920
Speaker 11: with John having Florence his socks, shoes, jacket, and cell phone,

642
00:37:09,040 --> 00:37:11,879
Speaker 11: he may very well be the last person to see her.

643
00:37:12,320 --> 00:37:16,880
Speaker 2: Pay Lindsay joining us, who has spent so many months

644
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:18,920
Speaker 2: investigating Florence's disappearance.

645
00:37:19,560 --> 00:37:22,040
Speaker 1: Where is he now?

646
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,520
Speaker 7: I know exactly where he is I'm not going to

647
00:37:24,560 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 7: say it on live air right now because mostly because

648
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,520
Speaker 7: you have a lot of listeners and viewers, and so

649
00:37:30,600 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 7: do I. I don't want the Good Samaritans to go

650
00:37:35,200 --> 00:37:39,600
Speaker 7: spook this guy anymore. But I'm in communication with them,

651
00:37:40,040 --> 00:37:45,640
Speaker 7: and I have maintained that he has questions that need answers,

652
00:37:46,000 --> 00:37:50,879
Speaker 7: and everything points back to Oregon. John. You can dive

653
00:37:50,920 --> 00:37:55,160
Speaker 7: down a million rabbit holes, but you must explain why

654
00:37:55,200 --> 00:37:57,960
Speaker 7: he had her things. And look at who we're talking

655
00:37:57,960 --> 00:38:03,239
Speaker 7: about here. Ninety three and offenses, rape, cruelty to animals.

656
00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:08,600
Speaker 7: These aren't petty offenses. This is a big This paints

657
00:38:09,160 --> 00:38:12,560
Speaker 7: a character of somebody who is dangerous.

658
00:38:12,200 --> 00:38:15,680
Speaker 2: Between him walking free with ninety three offenses and the

659
00:38:15,719 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 2: shriff hiding under his desk when you try to interview him.

660
00:38:19,160 --> 00:38:22,960
Speaker 2: Chris mcdonnad joining me, veteran homicide detective and star of

661
00:38:23,080 --> 00:38:25,839
Speaker 2: the Interview Room on YouTube.

662
00:38:26,120 --> 00:38:26,480
Speaker 1: Chris.

663
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:31,120
Speaker 2: In any other universe other than Nome, Alaska, this guy

664
00:38:31,680 --> 00:38:35,880
Speaker 2: would be alone in a jail cell under the jail,

665
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:40,080
Speaker 2: but instead he's out free having long chats with Payne Lindsay.

666
00:38:40,239 --> 00:38:43,920
Speaker 10: Yeah, and he's dangerous, And the fact that this guy's

667
00:38:43,960 --> 00:38:47,319
Speaker 10: an apex predator is what we'll call him. And I

668
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:50,960
Speaker 10: think if they took cadaver dogs within probably fifty yards

669
00:38:51,000 --> 00:38:54,880
Speaker 10: of that tent, they they may really want to focus

670
00:38:55,560 --> 00:38:59,760
Speaker 10: very clearly in that particular geographic type of profile.

671
00:39:00,560 --> 00:39:02,280
Speaker 9: And by the way, he hasn't stopped.

672
00:39:03,000 --> 00:39:07,439
Speaker 2: Chris, please spare me any evidence that would have been near.

673
00:39:07,480 --> 00:39:11,440
Speaker 2: That tent is long gone. It's on the beach number one.

674
00:39:11,400 --> 00:39:13,920
Speaker 9: Except for except for except for her body.

675
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,319
Speaker 2: Yes, yes, but I guarantee you the body is.

676
00:39:17,440 --> 00:39:19,640
Speaker 9: He's he's not taking a book.

677
00:39:19,640 --> 00:39:20,960
Speaker 1: Okay, that's a really good point.

678
00:39:21,080 --> 00:39:22,920
Speaker 2: And another thing I'd like to point out, this is

679
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,320
Speaker 2: by far the first time that someone disappears in Nome,

680
00:39:27,960 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: and usually they blame it on a bear.

681
00:39:30,120 --> 00:39:31,360
Speaker 1: But take a listen to this.

682
00:39:32,000 --> 00:39:37,839
Speaker 17: Case brought a greater accountability to the police department in

683
00:39:37,880 --> 00:39:41,600
Speaker 17: the city of Nome. You now have a records management

684
00:39:41,719 --> 00:39:45,640
Speaker 17: system and it'll be a little bit harder for a

685
00:39:45,680 --> 00:39:49,960
Speaker 17: police officer to do it. Owens was able to do

686
00:39:50,360 --> 00:39:54,200
Speaker 17: to the city of Nome and to the known police department.

687
00:39:57,239 --> 00:39:59,319
Speaker 16: So we thought, hey, I wonder if always picked up

688
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,120
Speaker 16: a gun from the HEAVI and slacker, they could always

689
00:40:02,160 --> 00:40:06,440
Speaker 16: return it, presumably so nobody would know send it to

690
00:40:06,440 --> 00:40:09,760
Speaker 16: Bob Sham at the crime lab and like a eighty

691
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:13,600
Speaker 16: ninety percent match somewhere in there. So we're fairly confident

692
00:40:13,640 --> 00:40:15,000
Speaker 16: that we had the right gun.

693
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:19,600
Speaker 2: So many people missing out of Nome, Alaska accounted for.

694
00:40:19,760 --> 00:40:23,759
Speaker 2: That's where our friends at Oxygen Payne lindsay, is Florence's

695
00:40:23,920 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: case going to end up like all the others out

696
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,640
Speaker 2: of known know where there is no resolution and they

697
00:40:30,760 --> 00:40:34,160
Speaker 2: end up just saying bear attack. No, it's not.

698
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:39,319
Speaker 7: Mostly because of people like Deila in the community and

699
00:40:39,640 --> 00:40:43,920
Speaker 7: our team and you keeping this case alive. The bottom

700
00:40:43,920 --> 00:40:47,080
Speaker 7: line is I try to talk to local police. They

701
00:40:47,080 --> 00:40:48,880
Speaker 7: didn't want to. They're not going to be able to

702
00:40:48,880 --> 00:40:51,279
Speaker 7: help me anyways. I bet you their case file is

703
00:40:51,920 --> 00:40:56,680
Speaker 7: literally a paragraph on a page. They haven't done anything actively.

704
00:40:57,480 --> 00:41:00,240
Speaker 7: We don't need them to help us. The bottom line

705
00:41:00,280 --> 00:41:03,640
Speaker 7: is at this point, based on their history, I mean

706
00:41:04,040 --> 00:41:07,279
Speaker 7: a known police officer killed a woman one time, they

707
00:41:07,280 --> 00:41:11,440
Speaker 7: don't have a good track record here. Someone from the

708
00:41:11,480 --> 00:41:14,759
Speaker 7: state agency or even the FBI, because they do this

709
00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:17,920
Speaker 7: in small towns like this in Alaska, needs to step

710
00:41:18,000 --> 00:41:22,280
Speaker 7: in and look at this objectively and say, hey, let's

711
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:25,160
Speaker 7: try to figure this out. There's a lot of red

712
00:41:25,200 --> 00:41:29,360
Speaker 7: flags waving, but they're doing nothing about it. If anything,

713
00:41:29,360 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 7: they're hindering journalists like myself from uncovering more truth.

714
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:36,080
Speaker 2: You know, you mentioned one of the la they are

715
00:41:36,400 --> 00:41:40,680
Speaker 2: actually being responsible for a disappearance. That was Sonya Ivanoff

716
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:45,600
Speaker 2: that we were just discussing. Who vanishes but pain there

717
00:41:45,600 --> 00:41:50,279
Speaker 2: are so many others as you are uncovering guys his

718
00:41:50,520 --> 00:41:52,760
Speaker 2: podcast Amazing up and vanish.

719
00:41:52,880 --> 00:41:54,360
Speaker 1: This is the Midnight Sun.

720
00:41:56,040 --> 00:42:01,440
Speaker 2: Many people attribute pain to cracking the case of Terara Grinstead,

721
00:42:01,480 --> 00:42:05,040
Speaker 2: and I pray to God this case will also be cracked.

722
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:12,839
Speaker 2: Dailah Johnson joining us, a very dear friend of Florence's,

723
00:42:12,880 --> 00:42:18,759
Speaker 2: her little girl still wanting mommy. I don't want Florence's

724
00:42:18,800 --> 00:42:24,120
Speaker 2: case to just be another statistic in No Alaska where

725
00:42:24,160 --> 00:42:26,520
Speaker 2: they end up a year from now going oh yeah

726
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,560
Speaker 2: close case bear did it me?

727
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:28,960
Speaker 1: Neither?

728
00:42:30,360 --> 00:42:35,400
Speaker 8: And I'm so grateful for all of the platforms available

729
00:42:35,440 --> 00:42:40,040
Speaker 8: to raise awareness around this case, because oftentimes it is

730
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:45,040
Speaker 8: not well covered in the news and in any media.

731
00:42:45,120 --> 00:42:47,520
Speaker 8: So it has been wonderful because I know that law

732
00:42:47,600 --> 00:42:49,840
Speaker 8: enforcement feels the pressure, and there has been a lot

733
00:42:49,880 --> 00:42:53,880
Speaker 8: of tension within the community based on a lot of

734
00:42:53,920 --> 00:42:56,480
Speaker 8: the talk around town now, and I think that it

735
00:42:56,520 --> 00:43:01,799
Speaker 8: has brought a lot of other conversations where previously community

736
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:05,719
Speaker 8: members were nervous to speak about this, and now it's

737
00:43:05,920 --> 00:43:07,880
Speaker 8: becoming more of a comfortable conversation.

738
00:43:08,200 --> 00:43:11,840
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about the

739
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:18,680
Speaker 2: disappearance of Florence or about so called Oregon John, I

740
00:43:18,719 --> 00:43:23,080
Speaker 2: beg you dial nine zero seven four four three five

741
00:43:23,239 --> 00:43:27,160
Speaker 2: two six ' two repeat nine zero seven four four

742
00:43:27,239 --> 00:43:28,240
Speaker 2: three five.

743
00:43:28,239 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: Two six ' two.

744
00:43:30,040 --> 00:43:34,200
Speaker 2: If you want to make a change, contact the Governor's

745
00:43:34,280 --> 00:43:39,759
Speaker 2: office in Alaska. Do they not know that Gnome law

746
00:43:39,800 --> 00:43:44,320
Speaker 2: enforcement blame one disappearance after the next on bear attacks?

747
00:43:44,960 --> 00:43:46,160
Speaker 1: How can that stand?

748
00:43:46,800 --> 00:43:52,160
Speaker 2: How can the governor show his face number nine zero

749
00:43:52,280 --> 00:43:57,200
Speaker 2: seven two six nine fifty one hundred, call him by name?

750
00:43:58,080 --> 00:44:05,759
Speaker 2: Greg Taylor. We waked as justice unfolds God willing in

751
00:44:05,840 --> 00:44:14,919
Speaker 2: the disappearance of Florence. Nancy Grace signing off, goodbye friend,