Speaker 1: Also media.
Speaker 2: The future is bulletproof, the aftermath is secondary. Welcome to
Speaker 2: batter Offline. I'm your host ed zech tron. Today were
Speaker 2: joined in the beautiful Los Angeles, Nevada, and I'm joined
Speaker 2: by Andy Richter, the comedian. Andy, thank you so much
Speaker 2: for joining me.
Speaker 1: Thank you for being here. On the way to the studio,
Speaker 1: I got to see a man smoking crack, which I haven't.
Speaker 1: I haven't seen that in the long time.
Speaker 2: That's kind of that's nostalgia.
Speaker 1: Sure it is. So you're still doing crack.
Speaker 2: People are still doing crack in this know, that's what
Speaker 2: they're saying. So, Andy, you've been so so nineties. Now
Speaker 2: we're bringing the nineties back. I was listening to a
Speaker 2: System of a Down. Sorry, I've been down this rabbit hole.
Speaker 2: This is tech podcast. We'll talk about stuff eventually. I've
Speaker 2: been down this rabbit hole of listening to this band
Speaker 2: called O two that does cover of bands in the
Speaker 2: style of other bands. And there was a System of
Speaker 2: a Down in the style of System of Down cover
Speaker 2: of the Scatman song Wow. It was truly amazing, like
Speaker 2: they nailed both the Scatman rap and the system of
Speaker 2: a downtown Wow. And the comments on these things are
Speaker 2: amazing because it's like fifty percent people like me saying
Speaker 2: this is really great. At fifty percent people being like, no,
Speaker 2: it's not, yeah, anything like the fucking Scatman. Yeah, the
Speaker 2: Scatman fans are all out there. Anyway, you've been fairly
Speaker 2: online for a while. I've noticed you on social media.
Speaker 2: When'd your first get online?
Speaker 1: Well, first online like on the Internet, would have been
Speaker 1: in the early nineties when I started working on Late
Speaker 1: Night with Conan O'Brien. That was that was when sort
Speaker 1: of you know, there was AOL and in fact, yeah,
Speaker 1: we were. I was the first time online. It was AOL.
Speaker 1: You know, I got one of those discs in the
Speaker 1: mail or you know, out of a magazine or whatever,
Speaker 1: and it was dial up and I had these clunky
Speaker 1: old mac uh power books and and at worked there
Speaker 1: was the Internet and it because at first the Internet
Speaker 1: I was like, wait, is it just like catalogs, you know,
Speaker 1: like PEPSI would have a website and be like, well,
Speaker 1: I kind of know what PEPSI is.
Speaker 2: And then was that initial pair of when I remember
Speaker 2: when I go online, when it was like ten yeah,
Speaker 2: just like looking up companies.
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly.
Speaker 2: But everything you you went to because it was dial
Speaker 2: up was very much a commitment, yeah, to be so sure.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, yeah, yeah, And and to go from one thing
Speaker 1: to the other took so long. Oh yeah, but then
Speaker 1: email was pretty fun. Facebook was fun for five seconds
Speaker 1: and then I immediately got off of there, right, And
Speaker 1: and of course then you know, like at the Conan Show,
Speaker 1: it was, you know, everybody was experiencing this new thing altogether, right,
Speaker 1: And as usual with every new technology, the one of
Speaker 1: the first primary uses is pornograph of course, so there
Speaker 1: was you know, plenty of and because it's a comedy show,
Speaker 1: it wasn't just like people fucking. It was like people
Speaker 1: filling up plastic pants with diarrhea. Okay, you know, stuff
Speaker 1: like that, and that's what we'd be swapping around the office.
Speaker 2: So wait, so you were on dial up doing this?
Speaker 1: Yes, so, well we were at work doing that. So
Speaker 1: I don't know what. I don't know what our internet
Speaker 1: connection was at work, so it.
Speaker 2: Was like the late nights T one connection something like
Speaker 2: bring up the Clown.
Speaker 1: It was better than than home. But like, I don't
Speaker 1: think I had to log on right with the work computer,
Speaker 1: you know, so you were just.
Speaker 2: Looking up various kinds of pornos and send everybody was
Speaker 2: they would I.
Speaker 1: Just remember, I don't and I don't remember exactly how
Speaker 1: we would find them, and but I just there'd be
Speaker 1: like files of oh three hundred you know, we weird
Speaker 1: sex photos, you know.
Speaker 2: Sex photo of course it would have been JPEGs back then. Yes,
Speaker 2: I wouldn't have the speed together.
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't know. You know, Well, just.
Speaker 2: Were people crowding around one's screen or was it just
Speaker 2: a luck and aft?
Speaker 1: There was some crowding around one screen. There was one
Speaker 1: guy in the office who would hit his his desk
Speaker 1: faced the door, so you'd see the back of his
Speaker 1: computer screen and he would he would I fell for
Speaker 1: it like three times, like a hey, Comara, I want
Speaker 1: to show you something, and you come around and it's
Speaker 1: just the most horrific, right yeah, the most like not
Speaker 1: at all sexual sex thing. And so after a while
Speaker 1: he'd say like, hey, come here, and I fuck you, No,
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not falling for that again.
Speaker 2: So I am cursed with two brothers, and Matthew and
Speaker 2: William are they older or both all of my sister
Speaker 2: and older as well. Matthew is a grotesque fellow and
Speaker 2: has shown me terrible things. So I've become kind of
Speaker 2: desensitized to the whole thing. And I remember the first
Speaker 2: one of the first days working at a pr FAM.
Speaker 2: I got to all the guys like, hey, Ed, come
Speaker 2: check this. You should come check type this into and
Speaker 2: it was meat spin, do not look this up? Okay,
Speaker 2: But I remember them going being like, check out meat
Speaker 2: spin and it is a man's really going in a circle. Sure.
Speaker 2: I sat there in complete silence for several minutes, my
Speaker 2: fingers just steepled and could see out the corner of
Speaker 2: my eye the deep discomfort right right because.
Speaker 1: That you were soaking it in.
Speaker 2: No, just just like Ginda Wakari from me Van Gelien,
Speaker 2: just sitting there, just like staring at it. And after
Speaker 2: that I never got to sent anything gross again. They
Speaker 2: wouldn't send me anything because they knew that just also,
Speaker 2: I think they kind of knew that I might retaliate
Speaker 2: one day. And I really this entire episode doesn't have
Speaker 2: to be about gross stuff. But I come from a
Speaker 2: darker place of the Internet, like I was on like
Speaker 2: early forums and like bulletin boards and used net not
Speaker 2: the worst part of.
Speaker 1: News buying and selling foreign bab.
Speaker 2: No, I was like twelve, and so the people were
Speaker 2: doing that around me, and so that was fun, but
Speaker 2: I also got to see so many horrible things. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and like there's Painful and her listeners who remember Painful
Speaker 2: do not look up any of the things we're talking about.
Speaker 2: It is funny, though, because that used to be a
Speaker 2: lot of the early Internet was just like hey, I
Speaker 2: found something gross, look at that shit?
Speaker 1: Yeah yeah yeah, and.
Speaker 2: That's gone now because there's no entire creddits for it.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, and I don't yeah. And also it's just
Speaker 1: like the novelty sort of yeah, you know, it's like
Speaker 1: too quick. Yeah, that was like, oh that was because
Speaker 1: it's like, oh, can you get like the worst kind
Speaker 1: of uh you know, the worst kind of pornography? Oh?
Speaker 1: Yeah you can. And then you know it's like okay,
Speaker 1: now you can get it immedia. Yeah it's not my
Speaker 1: And because if it's not your thing, which is like
Speaker 1: not my you know, like my pornography, I like it.
Speaker 1: Like I said, like if there was a search on
Speaker 1: a porn website for people being nice to each other, yeah,
Speaker 1: like that would be my I'm very boring for me.
Speaker 2: It's a and a woman they walk into the room,
Speaker 2: they shake hands, and they sit in complete silence for
Speaker 2: an hour rock hood every.
Speaker 1: Time, and then they start fucking.
Speaker 2: Yeah, but the video I'm not interested implications enough for me, right,
Speaker 2: But I think and I will say, there's nothing wrong
Speaker 2: with having your particular proclivities. The sex positive show and
Speaker 2: all that, But nevertheless, it is funny watching the Internet
Speaker 2: move away from pornography and towards being insane.
Speaker 1: Now, yes, yes, exactly.
Speaker 2: We just had Geeta Jackson and Nathan Grayson from Aftermath,
Speaker 2: a gaming website, and it's just talking about how games
Speaker 2: used to be. Like when I start on the Internet,
Speaker 2: it was like, oh, you could look at like forums
Speaker 2: video games and we tall talk about which characters were cool.
Speaker 2: Now it's like, oh you don't like cloud Stripe and
Speaker 2: File Fantasy seven, I will kill you, Yeah, I will
Speaker 2: snipe you. Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you get involved in any Internet communities? I know
Speaker 2: you're quite active in Instagram.
Speaker 1: Yeah. I well, Twitter was my main one. You know
Speaker 1: which Twitter? Twitter was a new like the a real
Speaker 1: step of being on online right line for me, And
Speaker 1: I got on Twitter. You know that this was social
Speaker 1: media was a new thing, you know, a couple of
Speaker 1: years old, and like I say, I got on Facebook
Speaker 1: for a minute and then I just I was like,
Speaker 1: there's too many people going, you know. It was it
Speaker 1: just felt like having an open door in your house
Speaker 1: that just people could come and go, hey, you want
Speaker 1: to talk and like, no, I do not want to
Speaker 1: talk to you.
Speaker 2: Ye had a sandwich?
Speaker 1: What are you thinking? Yeah? Yes, guys anyway can but
Speaker 1: so uh I actually, uh it was it was right
Speaker 1: before I went back to work for Conan on the
Speaker 1: Tonight Show. I believe, I think the time, because it
Speaker 1: was like twenty ten. Yeah, Twitter would have been that
Speaker 1: would I can't I can't remember. That would make.
Speaker 2: Sense though, because that was a few years into Twitches.
Speaker 2: It has become more than just digital perverse.
Speaker 1: Yes, yes, And and I had friends like, uh my
Speaker 1: friend Steve Ag comedian Steve Ag actor. He told me
Speaker 1: Twitter is really fun, like it's like it's like jokes.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, okay, because you know, and
Speaker 1: I had already quit Facebook. I was playing in the
Speaker 1: Major League Baseball All Star Game was down in Anaheim, cool,
Speaker 1: and I played, And I did this a couple of times.
Speaker 1: I played in the Celebrities and Old Time Baseball Guys
Speaker 1: charity softball event It's like a couple of days before
Speaker 1: the actual All Star Game. So I was going down
Speaker 1: there and the production coordinator for Conan called me and said, hey,
Speaker 1: we got an offer. They know you're playing there. If
Speaker 1: you would get on Twitter and tweet about what you
Speaker 1: know about the game, you might get a new iPhone.
Speaker 1: And I was like, oh, all right, sure, no problem.
Speaker 1: So I in the car on the drive to Anaheim,
Speaker 1: I signed up for Twitter. And then it was like
Speaker 1: I very quickly did see like and as I ever
Speaker 1: referred to it. For me in those early days, it
Speaker 1: was like the joke Jim. It was like where we
Speaker 1: all went to be funny, you know, yeah, just think
Speaker 1: up silly stuff, and it wasn't. And I never And
Speaker 1: it's I think the reason I liked it so much
Speaker 1: is that I wasn't. It was just for pure enjoyment. Yeah,
Speaker 1: you know, I mean I think you know, I'm saying funny,
Speaker 1: smart ass shit all the time, right, and and so
Speaker 1: you know, something funny will occur to me. I don't
Speaker 1: have an act, you know, I mean, I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: you know, and it's like if I see something funny
Speaker 1: on the street, I'm not gonna like take it to
Speaker 1: the TV show and say here's this funny you know
Speaker 1: Chinatown sign I saw, you know, so I just would
Speaker 1: do it for fun and it was and it was
Speaker 1: fun and it was also just fun to give away
Speaker 1: happiness and funniness. And I and I started to meet
Speaker 1: like comedians who are like, why are you on there?
Speaker 1: Like why would you waste your material? I'm like, so funny,
Speaker 1: Oh my god, waste what are you talking about? It's
Speaker 1: you know, there was very little sort of professional urge
Speaker 1: or you know, motive behind anything I did on Twitter.
Speaker 1: I mean, I would promo things when I had things
Speaker 1: to promo, but it was mostly just fun and I
Speaker 1: met people, you know, people who are now my ir
Speaker 1: L friends, you know, like and you know, yeah, and
Speaker 1: it was certainly in those early days it was what
Speaker 1: was great about and just in comedy terms and I
Speaker 1: and it probably holds in poetry terms and in you know,
Speaker 1: technical writing terms. There's no gatekeeper. So that which is
Speaker 1: why there were so many women that that you know,
Speaker 1: funny comedy women that came up and got their start
Speaker 1: with Twitter, because they, you know, there there were gatekeepers
Speaker 1: that kept women from being funny in front of people.
Speaker 2: And I think the twitch is the other problem of
Speaker 2: woman female comedians being like corrected for their jokes. And
Speaker 2: you see you still see that on Blue Sky and
Speaker 2: it was kind of a more democratic force I think
Speaker 2: for any kind of joke telling the thing that. The
Speaker 2: only thing that really bothered me with it was this
Speaker 2: do you ever see fave Star?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: So there was.
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't even does it still exist.
Speaker 2: It doesn't, but the soul lives on. It's soul caliber
Speaker 2: and it's what it was explain for the listeners. So
Speaker 2: there is this thing called fab Star and around it
Speaker 2: this growing clique of deeply unfunny people that we will
Speaker 2: repost each other's shit, and it created this kind of
Speaker 2: noxious version of what you're talking about, where what you're
Speaker 2: talking about is like I as a funny person, I've
Speaker 2: I've found a thing that made me laugh. I posted
Speaker 2: these people. You see them on blue Sky now, and
Speaker 2: you can tell they're on Blue Sky because they have
Speaker 2: a list in their profile auto block. If I see
Speaker 2: someone with a list of their posts and their blue
Speaker 2: Sky block them, I'm a very petty person.
Speaker 1: Wait what do you I don't unerstand what you mean.
Speaker 2: So what it is is that you can you can
Speaker 2: do a search on blue Sky and you could do
Speaker 2: this on Twitter, where it's just your posts, yeah, with
Speaker 2: no replies. What they're doing is like all my funniest bits.
Speaker 2: It's like if you have to do a list of
Speaker 2: your funniest post and not funny, right exactly. And it
Speaker 2: is interesting and very actually heartening to hear that there
Speaker 2: is also the honest company side from Twitter.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Do you think it's going off to blue sky
Speaker 2: itzel or is it different?
Speaker 1: Yes? I mean, and that's why I mostly do blue
Speaker 1: Sky now is because it feels the most like like
Speaker 1: the joke Jim, you know, whereas And I'll look sometimes
Speaker 1: at threads, which has a I mean, and I'm not
Speaker 1: very technical, so I don't understand. I don't understand, like
Speaker 1: you know, like I likened it once. I actually was
Speaker 1: on a conference call once with just like kind of
Speaker 1: different people that like from somebody that i'd done political
Speaker 1: organizing with was also doing sort of like social media
Speaker 1: social media, like how do we make social media work
Speaker 1: for us? And there was this big call about you know,
Speaker 1: different formats and what's next now that Twitter sucks, and
Speaker 1: I just said, like I feel like I'm with auto
Speaker 1: executives and I just want to drive the thing, like
Speaker 1: I don't. I don't care about how it works or
Speaker 1: the different sort of programming behind. I just want to.
Speaker 1: I want to I want a particular experience. I want
Speaker 1: to point it in a direction and go in that direction.
Speaker 1: And so I don't know what Threads is, but I
Speaker 1: just know that like the way that it shows me,
Speaker 1: shit is out of order, and you know, and just
Speaker 1: irritating and lots of let me tell you a four
Speaker 1: part story about this old man that you know gave
Speaker 1: me advice and changed my life. Yeah, and it's just
Speaker 1: sort of okay, that's nice and all, but you know,
Speaker 1: where's the jokes, where's the weirdos exactly?
Speaker 2: And where's the chaos? Yes, I described it is. It
Speaker 2: reminds me specifically of a mole in Dallas, Well, the
Speaker 2: Galleria mole in like a luxury gallery.
Speaker 1: I'm glad, that's right. I don't and I'm not being
Speaker 1: a wise ass. I just you know, no, no, I
Speaker 1: would want to know if.
Speaker 2: That's a thread zaust reply. But it's very luxurious. It's
Speaker 2: really nice. There's tons of stuff. They no reason to
Speaker 2: be that. You just go there and you feel your
Speaker 2: soul Wilt. Yeah, Threads is just weird. I went on
Speaker 2: there earlier and there was just a post where a
Speaker 2: guy said, yeah, I had a conversation with a guy
Speaker 2: and it was just a completely made up conversation with
Speaker 2: a person about using Mac products. And there were like
Speaker 2: eleven replies of people like yeah, and it's like, did
Speaker 2: you all just get in the same car crash?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Yeah, And it's bizarre. And I think what it is
Speaker 2: is tech companies don't seem to understand how human beings interact. Yeah,
Speaker 2: and the more that they wheeld that power to that
Speaker 2: conference call you're on the moment you try and systematize
Speaker 2: this stuff, the joy exits immediately.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 2: So have you felt like social media change how you
Speaker 2: do comedy? Though? M like the feedback loop even.
Speaker 1: Well, I mean I shouldn't even have paused, because yes,
Speaker 1: for sure, A big reason, a big thing, a big
Speaker 1: effect was learning what's not funny anymore? You know, and
Speaker 1: you might call it wokeness or you know, I mean
Speaker 1: like learning things. The one that I've always that I
Speaker 1: is just the one of the most forefront ones is
Speaker 1: the M word for little people. And that used to
Speaker 1: be like, you know, comedy msg if there was a gap,
Speaker 1: just throw in the m you know, you know, like
Speaker 1: or tossing and you know somebody you know, and and that,
Speaker 1: like I say, and I think when when the Conan
Speaker 1: Show started, I think we use that word and then
Speaker 1: and I don't know, you know, with words that you
Speaker 1: don't you know, you don't know what words are hurtful.
Speaker 1: I mean some of them are quite obg you know
Speaker 1: the ones. Yeah, but then there are some that's like, oh,
Speaker 1: that's hurtful to somebody, Okay, yeah, I can you work
Speaker 1: around that. I don't. I don't if if anything, that's
Speaker 1: a challenge, yeah, exactly. And there were other and they
Speaker 1: were just other things too. There were there's some that
Speaker 1: like that where it gets to be a verbiage thing,
Speaker 1: or there's just scolds that want to scold you for
Speaker 1: and you know, and also comedy sometimes comedy is really
Speaker 1: messy and dark and sort of like wait, you know,
Speaker 1: it's sort of like you're hinting at violence, Like yeah,
Speaker 1: it's a joke, you know what I mean, it's just
Speaker 1: made up. And I have learned also too, not just
Speaker 1: from a sense of you know, sort of uh gracious goodness,
Speaker 1: wanting to not hurt people's feelings. There's also like, oh,
Speaker 1: I could say that, but then if a bunch of
Speaker 1: fucking people will go crazy, And I don't need that yet.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't need people wasting my time with
Speaker 1: scolding me because you know.
Speaker 2: And I think that there is this vast division. I
Speaker 2: know where you land them, that there's the division between
Speaker 2: what you're talking about, which is like, yeah, there's things
Speaker 2: that I like. Social media is kind of a good
Speaker 2: paramata for societal acceptance. Yeah, yeah, we look at society
Speaker 2: right now and perhaps more things are up for question
Speaker 2: I like. But then there's I feel like a with
Speaker 2: Blue Sky especially, there is a sensitivity on certain subjects
Speaker 2: writ large and Blue Sky kind of you can get
Speaker 2: enveloped if you say the wrong thing, yes, or even
Speaker 2: something that's inspired. And to be clear, this is not
Speaker 2: some oblique way in which I'm saying I was racist
Speaker 2: the other day and people got mad. That's not what
Speaker 2: I'm talking about. Even Like, there's a guy called Mike
Speaker 2: mas Nick who's on the board of Blue Sky and
Speaker 2: he does tech dirt. Great guy. He posted about using
Speaker 2: AI the other day and people went completely fucking nuts
Speaker 2: on him just reading stuff he didn't say. And I
Speaker 2: do think that that is a problem and gets into
Speaker 2: comedy where people just don't want certain subjects to be
Speaker 2: up for discussion. And I think some of the most
Speaker 2: interesting stuff in comedy can come from the more challenging stuff. Again,
Speaker 2: not talking about race, not talking about sexism. This is
Speaker 2: this is not an approval of that. Yeah, And I'm
Speaker 2: just thinking of dear friend Chloe Radcliffe, great great comedians.
Speaker 2: This a show called Cheat, which is about her propensity
Speaker 2: in the past to cheat. It's a dark show, very funny.
Speaker 2: I think that comedy can go in some incredible directions,
Speaker 2: and the Internet and just digital production can actually take
Speaker 2: it in so many different directions. And my problem really
Speaker 2: is is that social media is right now elevating some
Speaker 2: of the shittiest comedy I've ever seen. It's some great comedy,
Speaker 2: just some of the most just base level just slop
Speaker 2: because and it's not even people being safe. It more
Speaker 2: often than not, it's people being deeply rude center right,
Speaker 2: going like, oh I can't say this anymore. Yeah, yeah,
Speaker 2: seen to say a slur. And it's it's frustrating because
Speaker 2: there are more comedians than ever and more doing really
Speaker 2: interesting shit and I feel like they get drowned out sometimes.
Speaker 1: Well, yes they do, and I mean a big reason
Speaker 1: for that is there was a calculated drive to and
Speaker 1: I mean, I just I know this from my producer
Speaker 1: on my podcast telling me that there's actual data about
Speaker 1: these sort of like Broy stand up kind of run
Speaker 1: of the mill Broy stand up podcast that is just
Speaker 1: you know, like I mean, and I can't I'm not saying,
Speaker 1: because it's like there's a revolving door in my world
Speaker 1: of like I go on their podcast and they come
Speaker 1: on my packcast excuse me, and there's a there's the
Speaker 1: Broe comedy version of that where it's like, oh, they're
Speaker 1: always just kind of in a circular thing and the
Speaker 1: amount of political content has gone through the roof on
Speaker 1: those because they were all sent talking points and they
Speaker 1: all would have the same talking points like you know,
Speaker 1: Kamala Harris can't lead a wartime nation and.
Speaker 2: So kind of like an almost like a propaganda poison.
Speaker 1: Absolutely in the same way, and it's somehow in the
Speaker 1: same way. I don't because I've always been amazed and
Speaker 1: you know, on Blue Sky you don't see it as much.
Speaker 1: But like the right wing trolls like they get marching
Speaker 1: orders because they all start seeing the exact same thing
Speaker 1: at the exact same time. And I'm like, are they
Speaker 1: unlike a facts list? Like how where when you when
Speaker 1: you believe you come from? Is it Fox News? Where
Speaker 1: are they hearing this ship?
Speaker 2: You know, it's when you believe in nothing, you just
Speaker 2: go you, oh, couldn't just agree to the same fight
Speaker 2: right at the time, you can be like we're mad
Speaker 2: at bathrooms.
Speaker 1: Right well, and also too, it's like I I you know,
Speaker 1: I believe it. You know, the people say it's a
Speaker 1: cult and stuff, and like, yeah, all right, I mean,
Speaker 1: if that's what you want to call it. I mean,
Speaker 1: nobody's living in a compound and shaving their heads. You know,
Speaker 1: they're they're they're you know, it's if it's a cult,
Speaker 1: it's a it's a very loose and free cult that's
Speaker 1: wandering around free form. But it is kind of a
Speaker 1: thing like, no, I've decided that this is where I'm at,
Speaker 1: So this is this is like there's a very particular
Speaker 1: kind of person that's a right wing troll that just
Speaker 1: like there's just a different sort of character choices that
Speaker 1: sort of boil it down onto its essence and for me,
Speaker 1: it's things like I don't follow the rules. I make
Speaker 1: the rules, you know, And that's like that. So then
Speaker 1: Donald Trump is like, oh my, he's the new plu
Speaker 1: ultra of of I don't you know. The rules aren't
Speaker 1: for me. I make the rules. And that's so it's
Speaker 1: like if you say, well, wait, that's racist, they're like, no,
Speaker 1: it isn't you know, Or that's or tariffs are terrible.
Speaker 1: They are not, you know, And it's just they don't
Speaker 1: It's like the actual and it's why you can't win.
Speaker 1: It's why it's you know, I just tread water until
Speaker 1: you drown, because they don't, you know, the facts and
Speaker 1: figures and things and the data don't matter. It's just
Speaker 1: I'm always going to be entrenched onto my side until
Speaker 1: their grandmother starps stops getting their checks, and that's around
Speaker 1: the corner and until you know, the government just sees
Speaker 1: right right and they don't and they don't get their
Speaker 1: tax returns, you know, because the mail's broken and the
Speaker 1: I R. S is broken, or their Social Security payments
Speaker 1: stopped because it's all fucked up.
Speaker 2: So it's a fun story for you. So twice on
Speaker 2: the show, I've talked about just another instraction for any
Speaker 2: anti trans people listening. Just another update on my instructions.
Speaker 2: You should be in the garage. The doors should be closed,
Speaker 2: the car may not be started yet. Red that engine, baby,
Speaker 2: Read that engine.
Speaker 1: Now.
Speaker 2: If you're not getting sleepy, get the tube, go to
Speaker 2: the exhaust, and then put that bad boy in the window.
Speaker 2: That's the sleepy juice. You need more of that now.
Speaker 2: I got several emails from people saying, you can't say that,
Speaker 2: you can't suggest anti trans people kill themselves, And the
Speaker 2: answer is, watch me.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: And I think I think the whole fucking who's the
Speaker 2: Joe Rogan of the left thing doesn't make sense. And
Speaker 2: I think if you break it down into what it is,
Speaker 2: it's everything you're talking about, which is there is no
Speaker 2: like insane propaganda unity across the left and also the left.
Speaker 2: I fucking hate the term as well, because it's like
Speaker 2: the left. Depending on who you talk to, it refers
Speaker 2: to like CBS News or Marxists. It's complete medium of
Speaker 2: different things. But ultimately it is because people actually have
Speaker 2: beliefs that they stick to and those can change within
Speaker 2: distinct groups. That is the right way.
Speaker 1: And they also too, don't walk in lockstep on every
Speaker 1: single issue you know, people have, Like you know, you
Speaker 1: can think that socialized medicine is a wonderful thing, but
Speaker 1: you also are you know, because you're Catholic or what
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, you know, you're you're you know, anti
Speaker 1: abortion and that and that. You know, So there's like
Speaker 1: there's too many varying issues within the liberal whatever you
Speaker 1: want to call it, the not right world that it's
Speaker 1: never you don't get locks which is quite you know,
Speaker 1: which is which is inconvenient.
Speaker 2: And also the right, the right wing of really unlock
Speaker 2: step with what they hate. Yes, and that's the thing
Speaker 2: is you can hate them like I, I just feel
Speaker 2: like there is a certain degree of meekness with it.
Speaker 2: And also when Podsave America is one of the largest,
Speaker 2: that's also never a great start. Also another really simple
Speaker 2: thing is and even think it's been into this as
Speaker 2: well and others have as well, where it's like there's
Speaker 2: also not multi billionaires backing every single leftist podcast right,
Speaker 2: which would be really funny.
Speaker 1: That would be awesome if it would be really fun
Speaker 1: if there was just.
Speaker 2: Like billions of dollars going into guys just doing like
Speaker 2: eighteen hour seasons of podcasts about why made a care
Speaker 2: for all is necessary. Sadly we don't have that kind
Speaker 2: of unity in any way and it sucks. And it
Speaker 2: sucks as well because I think that there is this
Speaker 2: getting back to comedy as well, there's this assumption with
Speaker 2: comedy as well. It's like it has to be rude
Speaker 2: to be funny. Yeah, it can be tragic, there can
Speaker 2: be There were and one of my favorite thing, one
Speaker 2: of my favorite things that made me laugh and I'm
Speaker 2: not laughing at the event. You're going to know where
Speaker 2: I'm going with this. In the second guy did a
Speaker 2: wonderful stand up thing, not funny, describing, like post nine
Speaker 2: to eleven, how he his Muslim was horribly mistreated and
Speaker 2: he was to I'm going to look this up and
Speaker 2: get the lengthies, like talking about how people hated him,
Speaker 2: hate other people of color, anyone who was brown with
Speaker 2: was treated horribly and how it really pushed him towards
Speaker 2: his faith in unity in this community. And he stops
Speaker 2: at the end of about a minute a half he goes,
Speaker 2: did nine to even work? And it's just like fucking amazing,
Speaker 2: just like perfectly done. Because someone could scold him if
Speaker 2: he was not describing his actual experience, right, And it's
Speaker 2: just I feel like the future of comedy is going
Speaker 2: to be so fucking weird because both the subject matter
Speaker 2: and the speed at which things work and happen is
Speaker 2: so different to how he used to be used to. Actually,
Speaker 2: here is a question, how did you prepare for the show?
Speaker 2: Just a very basic like an for the show? How
Speaker 2: much work did you have to do, like day to day,
Speaker 2: day to day.
Speaker 1: Well, I was earlier on, you know, like back in
Speaker 1: the late night days. I was a writer on the
Speaker 1: show and was expected to do for the first few
Speaker 1: years as much as any other rider. Like you know.
Speaker 1: There we had a board that had five, you know,
Speaker 1: five columns which were the days and then act one,
Speaker 1: Act two, Act three x four, five x six, and
Speaker 1: you had to fill them and you know, some of
Speaker 1: them were filled with guests. There were a guest band
Speaker 1: and stuff. But you had to fill those spots with
Speaker 1: bits that you came up. So they'd put a card
Speaker 1: in there that would be like, you know whatever, you know,
Speaker 1: Zoo detective, and it would be up there with your initials,
Speaker 1: you know, down on the corner. So I was expected
Speaker 1: to do that. And then there were also like just
Speaker 1: different bits that kind of were handed to me that
Speaker 1: that that we they'd come up with a new one.
Speaker 1: They'd be like, here, you write this, because you're good
Speaker 1: at writing this particular kind of thing. And then there
Speaker 1: was also two I started. I was the first one
Speaker 1: to do remotes because Robert Smigel, who was running the show,
Speaker 1: didn't want to send Conan out on remotes because that
Speaker 1: was very much a David Letterman thing, like the host
Speaker 1: going out and being the host out in the world,
Speaker 1: whereas I was kind of going out and being this NiFe,
Speaker 1: you know, this kind of you know, boy man boy
Speaker 1: out in the world. And so I was doing remote
Speaker 1: and I would have to edit those, you know, I'd
Speaker 1: come back from the Arkansas State Fair and you know,
Speaker 1: get off the you know, go to bed and then
Speaker 1: go into the work the next day and start cutting
Speaker 1: that piece and working sometimes to you know, three four
Speaker 1: o'clock in the morning and getting that rink. Was this
Speaker 1: physical media or was this it was video? Okay, yeah,
Speaker 1: it was it was video. It was all on big
Speaker 1: three quarter inch tape.
Speaker 2: That was kind of what Yeah, So that's because that.
Speaker 1: Wasn't it was not digital back in those days in
Speaker 1: the nineties.
Speaker 2: Because that's the thing. The speed of itseration there and
Speaker 2: the speed of things happening like it sounds like several days,
Speaker 2: it's no more. Yes, what's fascinating? Mean, have you ever
Speaker 2: seen Josh Johnson incredible stand up comedian, so.
Speaker 1: The names from I maybe lots of jas in comedies.
Speaker 2: This he's on the Daily Show. He's fantastic African American guys,
Speaker 2: one of the funniest guys. Has this amazing kind of
Speaker 2: like slow drill everything he does. But I think he
Speaker 2: might be the future of comedy for one reason. He's
Speaker 2: I can write. Really, I've never seen anyone who writes
Speaker 2: that fast other than me and I write newsletters and
Speaker 2: they swear and all. He will have a new bit
Speaker 2: about something that just happened immediately. Yeah, he will have
Speaker 2: like our ten minutes of fucking material, Yeah yeah, and
Speaker 2: it will be about ill Muster something he did. He
Speaker 2: had this amazing thing about there was a lawsuit with
Speaker 2: a rapper and I can't remember the name now, with
Speaker 2: just this insane long thing where like a lawyer nearly
Speaker 2: got censured or like sanctioned, I mean by the judge
Speaker 2: because he would not reveal something that he shouldn't by law. Nevertheless,
Speaker 2: it's insane watching these comedians have to go from this
Speaker 2: thing where they don't know, I'm not a stand up
Speaker 2: I know a few of them. It would go up
Speaker 2: and prepare material, and they'd workshop a bit in open
Speaker 2: mic nights and they'd try it, and then they have
Speaker 2: a real show where they do it. Now it's just
Speaker 2: you have to just fucking burn material all the time.
Speaker 2: You have to keep it relevantly. Yeah, and it almost
Speaker 2: feels like it's going to breed in a different kind
Speaker 2: of comedian, one that can respond just way faster.
Speaker 1: Well, yeah, yes, absolutely, And also too, there is there
Speaker 1: is the real thing with comedians and I'm I'm you know,
Speaker 1: it's one of the reasons that I'm not a stand
Speaker 1: up comedian and I'm glad I'm not a stand up comedian,
Speaker 1: is that because you can't they Well, there's kind of
Speaker 1: part of me that's like, really can't you Like if
Speaker 1: you tell a joke on it. What I was going
Speaker 1: to say is if you say, if you're there's a
Speaker 1: bit on Instagram, you it can't go into your hour,
Speaker 1: right because because that joke has already been heard and been.
Speaker 2: Seen this like industry.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just sort of the what you know, what
Speaker 1: do they call it common wisdom or whatever you call it,
Speaker 1: conventional wisdom, That's the phrase I'm looking for. And I've
Speaker 1: always kind of been like really, you know, And and
Speaker 1: it's the same reason that they're so protective about people
Speaker 1: filming them while they're working on stuff, you know, in
Speaker 1: a club somebody releasing, because then the jokes will be
Speaker 1: out there, which it's kind of I mean, there's a yes,
Speaker 1: I understand it. But on the other hand, I also think, like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm just probably more casual with material, and
Speaker 1: you know, and because I've come from more of an
Speaker 1: improv background and never had to like guard, you know,
Speaker 1: like I'm constantly my card, you know, guard my words,
Speaker 1: my precious, precious words. But they so they can't do that.
Speaker 1: That's why you see so much crowd work, because crowd
Speaker 1: work is disposable, like and that's why. And you do find,
Speaker 1: like there's some really fantastic crowd work comedians, you know,
Speaker 1: that you do see and and they will also sort
Speaker 1: of I mean, the best ones, the funniest ones, And
Speaker 1: this is the main point that I want to make
Speaker 1: about this whole thing. The best ones, the funniest ones.
Speaker 1: You'll see them doing crowd work, but you'll also see
Speaker 1: a little bit of their act, Like I'm not afraid
Speaker 1: to give you a little bit of their act. And
Speaker 1: the reason is is because they're artists, right, And the
Speaker 1: difference between the people that are bitching about like I
Speaker 1: can't say difficult things anymore is because they don't know
Speaker 1: how to do it artfully, and the people that are
Speaker 1: good at it are artists, and they do it artfully.
Speaker 1: And you can hear the most uncomfortable shit from an
Speaker 1: artist because they will know how to tell you it
Speaker 1: in a way that resolves itself.
Speaker 2: And it's not inherently exploitative or walking yes, because that's
Speaker 2: the thing with all of these comedians, are like, oh,
Speaker 2: you can't say this anymore, then find something fucking else. Absolutely,
Speaker 2: isn't this your goddamn job.
Speaker 1: The notion that you can't do comedy is just demonstrably false.
Speaker 1: There's comedy fucking everywhere. What are you talking about?
Speaker 2: And life is more absurd than it's ever been. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean doing this show, well, I'm not a comedian.
Speaker 2: I'm funny in the other way. It's but even within
Speaker 2: the tech industry, it's just like right now, and you're
Speaker 2: not a techi guy. You've got just like multiple multi
Speaker 2: billion dollar companies, trillion dollar companies chasing AI in this
Speaker 2: direction where like they all lose money and no one
Speaker 2: really wants it, right, It's inherently fuckinghilarious. It's also very
Speaker 2: grim to watch. But watching these kind of like damn
Speaker 2: little weirdos and freaks walk around and say stuff that
Speaker 2: no human beings should believe about making calls, it is funny.
Speaker 2: And there's so much I don't want to say joy,
Speaker 2: because there's a lot of misery right now, but there's
Speaker 2: so much different thing. There's so many different things that
Speaker 2: you can make material from. I choose Josh Johnson because
Speaker 2: he's even moved into some tech stuff because guess what,
Speaker 2: everything is approachable from a human position if you don't
Speaker 2: know well, and it's just like, oh, if I can't
Speaker 2: be racist or sexist anymore amount of things, what do
Speaker 2: you fucking do with your day?
Speaker 1: Man?
Speaker 2: You just go around just like dropping slurs and insulting. Yeah,
Speaker 2: I mean, now that I think about it, probably that's
Speaker 2: what guys do.
Speaker 1: And it's also just like it's it's people that want
Speaker 1: to recycle old tropes, you know, like about for fucking
Speaker 1: women you know, or you know or in a yeah
Speaker 1: he's cross dressers or whatever, you know, like they just
Speaker 1: want to They're not coming up with anything new. They're
Speaker 1: just regurg you to this sort of zeitgeist that guys
Speaker 1: with backward baseball caps are going to go woo at animal.
Speaker 2: And it's inherently also kind of regressive because it's not
Speaker 2: really all it says about them is man. You know
Speaker 2: what would be funny if I said something hurt for
Speaker 2: and I'm not meant to do that, right, which is
Speaker 2: what makes it funny. What was weird, though, is you
Speaker 2: wanted you wanted to have a really horrible experience. Try
Speaker 2: watching Family Guy. It is insane that that show aired.
Speaker 2: Just to any listeners. I don't really recommend watching it,
Speaker 2: but Family Guy was insanely sexist, racist, like they say
Speaker 2: actual slurs on there. It's crazy what used to be.
Speaker 2: And I have to wonder if some of these right
Speaker 2: wing comedians or even just kind of like people would
Speaker 2: wouldn't say that that was their identity. I just like
Speaker 2: watching Family Guy and things like I'm being like, we
Speaker 2: used to be able to just do entire episodes about
Speaker 2: Peter Griffin being Mexican, and that is an actual episode
Speaker 2: of Family Guy. By the way, there is an entire
Speaker 2: plot where he's an illegal immigrant. It's fucking insane. It
Speaker 2: is insane. What used to be considered funny and aired
Speaker 2: on TV.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: In fact, there was a show called Black White. Have
Speaker 2: you heard of this? There was a show on Fox
Speaker 2: in like two thousand and five where a white family
Speaker 2: got blacked up, like full black face. It's insane, and
Speaker 2: then a black family got whited up and it was
Speaker 2: called black White. The world is insane. The world is
Speaker 2: actually insane. When you look like we have. It might
Speaker 2: not feel like we've come for, but we have.
Speaker 1: Yeah. On that SNL that fiftieth thing, you know, they
Speaker 1: did sort of what I found to be a very
Speaker 1: interesting little segment and also sort of you know, sort
Speaker 1: of they didn't have to like share their dirty laundry, right,
Speaker 1: but it was just a little montage of their incredibly
Speaker 1: rape past racist things go Asian and Asians and you know,
Speaker 1: Latinos and just really create and sexist stuff.
Speaker 2: You know, I get why they did that, but I
Speaker 2: personally wouldn't have I would have probably not not put that.
Speaker 1: I mean, I liked it because I thought, like, like
Speaker 1: I said, it seemed it's like it acknowledged the past. Yeah,
Speaker 1: it was like somebody saying I used to make mistakes
Speaker 1: and I and I learned from them and I don't
Speaker 1: do them anymore, which I always yeah, and also too,
Speaker 1: Is that what they said though? I think so? I
Speaker 1: hope so I think that's what they meant.
Speaker 2: I haven't watched.
Speaker 1: I don't think they were saying like, we can't get
Speaker 1: away with this anymore. But even because it's so these
Speaker 1: bits are so shitty, I think.
Speaker 2: I think more what I'm suggesting is what frustrates me
Speaker 2: with things like that. And I have not watched it,
Speaker 2: so I'm sure someone will email me saying I'm wrong.
Speaker 2: It happens even when I'm right. If it's just them
Speaker 2: showing it without making any commentary, that pisses me off
Speaker 2: because it's just like, ah, we shouldn't do this again.
Speaker 1: Well they did preface it, they like, can you believe
Speaker 1: we used to do this kindness?
Speaker 2: That's kind of cool. I like that, so somewhat subject change.
Speaker 2: So AI have you used any of this?
Speaker 3: I have not.
Speaker 1: I keep thinking like, oh, because I don't hear people,
Speaker 1: you know, there are because there aren't aspects to say,
Speaker 1: chat GPT that are interesting to me. Like I have spaghetti,
Speaker 1: a green pepper, you know, tamarin sauce. What do I
Speaker 1: do with it? And it'll give you a recipe and
Speaker 1: you know, like that's like that's pretty neat, you know.
Speaker 1: And then like I was just listening. I'm a Howard
Speaker 1: Stern listener, and he was messing around with it, and
Speaker 1: he asked chat GPT because he's learning guitar and he
Speaker 1: had some new guitar and it was the strings are
Speaker 1: making his fingers black. So he asked chat chat GPT,
Speaker 1: why is my new guitar making my fingers black? And
Speaker 1: chat GPT says, there's a you know, an oil that's
Speaker 1: on there from the factory. That's a protective oil to
Speaker 1: keep the strings from rusting, and so you know, if
Speaker 1: you wipe it with a dry cloth, it should be good.
Speaker 1: And I thought, okay, that's pretty cool, you know, like
Speaker 1: like to ask a question like that. I don't want
Speaker 1: it to write your fuck and papers.
Speaker 2: That's the thing.
Speaker 1: I don't want it to. Yeah, I don't want to
Speaker 1: watch a movie that just was made up out of
Speaker 1: a machine mind. And I don't. I just have to
Speaker 1: believe that it it won't be like that, like and
Speaker 1: if it if that is, if it is like that,
Speaker 1: that is a long, long long way away, you know.
Speaker 2: And that's the thing that I am very anti. And
Speaker 2: as part of the show, I have dug into open
Speaker 2: a I a great deal and yeah, bad company and
Speaker 2: all that. I think. What's funny about all of these
Speaker 2: descriptions is I try and ask people who are not
Speaker 2: super technical about this whole time, what do you use
Speaker 2: it for? And every single person describes Google Search if
Speaker 2: it worked. It's like, what if Google search all absolutely?
Speaker 2: What if there was a website where you could ask
Speaker 2: it something.
Speaker 1: Or if maybe if Siri wasn't stupid.
Speaker 2: Yeah, And what's funny is they've added that I have
Speaker 2: you you've got an iPhone? Yeah, so you've seen Apple
Speaker 2: Intelligence then.
Speaker 1: I I mean I have not. I have not attempted
Speaker 1: it because I've heard some you've turned off. I don't
Speaker 1: know if I've turned it off or not. But well,
Speaker 1: I do get a thing where it makes that sort
Speaker 1: of like purple glow around ye wanting to do something
Speaker 1: eye and I just ignore it. You know.
Speaker 2: That's the thing though, It's when then it's suggesting me texts,
Speaker 2: which are not good response.
Speaker 1: Now I've they're almost never.
Speaker 2: I had a friend telling me about a really bad
Speaker 2: relationship thing and it said, that's disappointing. It's like, I
Speaker 2: don't think that would have helped him.
Speaker 1: You fucked that up?
Speaker 2: You more?
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: But and it's it does feel like they're just selling
Speaker 2: us back something that works because the SERI does not
Speaker 2: work better. It works worse.
Speaker 1: Now. I used to be able to I use I
Speaker 1: think so too.
Speaker 2: My big thing I use this for with Siri was
Speaker 2: just reminder us, and I use them constantly. It'll be
Speaker 2: like I will think of something at eleven thirty pm
Speaker 2: and I'll mutter it and it will work. Now it
Speaker 2: works like eighty percent of Oh really, it used to
Speaker 2: work nineteen percent of the time. But everything with describing
Speaker 2: has been here for ten years. Other than maybe the
Speaker 2: no no the string thing, if you I'm sure if
Speaker 2: he googled that, it would have worked too.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: It's just it's very depressing because oh.
Speaker 1: Yeah, absolutely, if you googled black residue on guitar strings,
Speaker 1: it would come up. Yeah yeah yeah.
Speaker 2: And it's and the things I've found it useful for
Speaker 2: and my listener is going to beat my ass for this.
Speaker 2: I don't even use chat GPT because fuck that shit.
Speaker 2: But large language models, when I've used them, have been like,
Speaker 2: break down this complex paragraph of financial crap, explain it
Speaker 2: in plain English. I will then have to go and
Speaker 2: verify that independently because they do not trust this shit.
Speaker 2: But it's interesting how the long and short of it
Speaker 2: is is what if Google Search was slightly bad? What
Speaker 2: if Google's what if we had a website for questions?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: And it worked? And then Google's ideas they just they're
Speaker 2: doing AI overviews now and they just added a new kind.
Speaker 2: And now Google's idea is, what if we worked kind
Speaker 2: of and it was way more expensive? Would you like that?
Speaker 2: We don't care?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Profits up?
Speaker 1: Yeah? And what if it used all the energy unearthed?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: What if it boiled small lakes and required us to
Speaker 2: steal from every person forever? It's just see this is
Speaker 2: and that's the thing. It's frustrating to watch because this
Speaker 2: whole the whole thing with the show that's doing this
Speaker 2: show has been like what hoping things would get better
Speaker 2: and watching them get worse and putting aside dose and
Speaker 2: all that crap happening in the real world. Yeah, it
Speaker 2: doesn't feel like the tech is doing stuff to help
Speaker 2: us anymore. Like it doesn't feel fun. Do you. You're
Speaker 2: not a technical person, but you like gadget size. You
Speaker 2: may still dick around with computers and such and a
Speaker 2: little bit.
Speaker 1: Yeah, yeah, I mean not so much as I used to.
Speaker 2: When did that stop?
Speaker 1: Just as I got older and I and I you know,
Speaker 1: and I got divorced and then got remarried, and I
Speaker 1: have a five year old. Now I have a twenty
Speaker 1: four year old and nineteen year old and a five
Speaker 1: year old. Nice five year old takes up a lot
Speaker 1: of times, you know. So I mean and also too,
Speaker 1: I'm fifty eight now, and and I you know, it's
Speaker 1: like nobody wants to watch my shows, you know, in
Speaker 1: my dad my shows are very dad show, like The Spot,
Speaker 1: the CIA Spy shit right not Reacher. Reacher is just
Speaker 1: basically about like I've heard it describes as like what
Speaker 1: if a guy was really big?
Speaker 2: What if a giant was shown? Yeah? Yeah, but the
Speaker 2: new season, I have a bigger guy.
Speaker 1: I know, I'm really big, fellow, I saw that, But
Speaker 1: I mean, but I you know, like, uh, the agency
Speaker 1: and Paradise and those kind of shows, and then also
Speaker 1: too things like Traders, but Traders I'll watch with my wife,
Speaker 1: but she won't watch these other ones. They're too stressful.
Speaker 1: So once every everybody goes to bed, they go upstairs
Speaker 1: about like eight thirty nine o'clock. I'm good for maybe
Speaker 1: an hour of watching something. So I'm not going to
Speaker 1: be on at I'm not going to be playing video games,
Speaker 1: right because A I'm a little too old. And this
Speaker 1: isn't exactly right. I just didn't I never got good
Speaker 1: at them, right, and so, and I don't know whether
Speaker 1: I just didn't have a facility for them, and and
Speaker 1: I did have an experience because I was given and
Speaker 1: I don't even remember. I think it was early Xbox,
Speaker 1: possibly maybe a PlayStation. And uh, it was early in
Speaker 1: my time in New York City, a couple of years
Speaker 1: after I've been living there. And there was a game
Speaker 1: called road Rash. Yeah you remember that.
Speaker 2: I remember.
Speaker 1: I remember a motorcycle race where you could hit hit
Speaker 1: each other with stuff nice and so, and this is
Speaker 1: we're probably talking to nineteen ninety five six.
Speaker 2: Oh so okay, so that was the original.
Speaker 1: I'm talking the original that.
Speaker 2: Like a probably a psycha genesis.
Speaker 1: Maybe I don't I don't remember, but it was something.
Speaker 1: It was swag.
Speaker 2: I know.
Speaker 1: I don't think I very and I don't mean to
Speaker 1: be a dick. It's just like when you're on TV,
Speaker 1: people just give you free shit, and when it's like
Speaker 1: and when you're not on TV and when you really
Speaker 1: need free shit, nobody's there to give it to you.
Speaker 2: Ryan.
Speaker 1: But that's you know. So I had this this game system,
Speaker 1: played road Rash, and my sister in law, my ex
Speaker 1: wife's younger sister, was living with us at the time,
Speaker 1: and she and I would play road Rash and I
Speaker 1: would I would think like, wow, we've been playing for
Speaker 1: about an hour, and it would be five hours.
Speaker 2: Oh yeah, four or five.
Speaker 1: And I just was like this is not good. This
Speaker 1: yeah yeah, this is just like that much loss of
Speaker 1: time for me because I already my you know, one
Speaker 1: of my lifelong self critiques is is you're not doing enough,
Speaker 1: Like what don't you do more? You lazy fucker, get
Speaker 1: off your ass and do something. Your life would be
Speaker 1: better if you had more initiative. So to introduce a
Speaker 1: like justin actual time suck, Yeah, I was like, no, no,
Speaker 1: this I cannot do this. I mean, and I you know,
Speaker 1: and I you know, I I haven't I quit now.
Speaker 1: But you know, I, throughout my life have smoked weed too.
Speaker 1: And that was enough. You know, that was like enough.
Speaker 1: It's like to me, it felt like like weed crack.
Speaker 1: That's what the game like, what gaming felt to me.
Speaker 1: It's like, this is because weed is such kind of
Speaker 1: like a little vacation from yourself. At least that's what
Speaker 1: it was for me. Yeah. Yeah, And and the game
Speaker 1: was just like this is a vacation this I don't
Speaker 1: I'm I don't exist.
Speaker 2: And road Rush absolutely ru Yeah.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it was really fun because when you said.
Speaker 2: PlayStation Xbox, they did remake it at some point the game,
Speaker 2: you see, you get given free shit. I get given
Speaker 2: emails emails from people correct to me about when road
Speaker 2: Rash came out. No, I love my listeners.
Speaker 3: I deeply love them.
Speaker 2: Actually, that's an interesting thing. It's slight different thing. So
Speaker 2: I was having a conversation with some on it. Eric
Speaker 2: Silvery's over Multitude Productions used to be a client of
Speaker 2: mine production podcast student. He brought up a thing about podcasting.
Speaker 2: I'm actually quite curious to run by you. How do
Speaker 2: you feel about with podcasts, especially you seem like a
Speaker 2: more positive guy. It feels like there's this weird thing
Speaker 2: with him podcasts of just hating the audience.
Speaker 1: Like a derision for them, is there?
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, so maybe not.
Speaker 1: No. I mean I I am not a very good
Speaker 1: podcast consumer. And as I already mentioned, I listened to
Speaker 1: Howard Stern and that takes up a lot of my
Speaker 1: podcast and that's you know, that's since the early nineties,
Speaker 1: right right, I've been listening to Howard Stern. So it's
Speaker 1: my it's my ongoing soap opera comedy show, you know,
Speaker 1: Peeping Tom, Voyeuristic, look at all these weird ods. So
Speaker 1: it takes up a lot of my time. And so
Speaker 1: I don't listen to a lot of podcasts. And again
Speaker 1: I think that's kind of like I'm kind of older
Speaker 1: and I just and it's I will listen to some,
Speaker 1: like you know, there's some that I have that I
Speaker 1: do listen to occasionally and enjoy, but but it's usually
Speaker 1: like like I just recently was listening to Jamie Loftus
Speaker 1: is doing something called The Sixteenth Manager.
Speaker 2: We're on Cool Zone Media.
Speaker 1: She's a coworker. Oh wow, cool. Yeah, And then, you know,
Speaker 1: because it was just well, she's really great, yes, you know,
Speaker 1: and she's an incredibly talented person, and and it is
Speaker 1: really interesting, like it's an interesting topic and it's and
Speaker 1: almost all of them are of interest to me, whereas
Speaker 1: there's lots of other podcasts where it's like, oh, that's
Speaker 1: you know, sort of like the old Hollywood kind of ones.
Speaker 1: There will be one that I'm like, that is fascinating,
Speaker 1: and then another one like I don't give a shit
Speaker 1: about that one, you know, So it's you know, and
Speaker 1: that does.
Speaker 2: Actually lead somewhere far more interesting than my original question,
Speaker 2: which is it feels like the format of podcasts has
Speaker 2: kind of it's actually growing in something far more interesting
Speaker 2: because Sixteenth Minutes started a few months after Better Offline,
Speaker 2: I think. And what Jamie does for the listeners who
Speaker 2: haven't heard and I assume you have because she's advertised
Speaker 2: on here and so on and so forth, is Jamie
Speaker 2: will find like an Internet celebrity of the day, like
Speaker 2: a dress or bone, yes she got ken bone on
Speaker 2: the show, and then she'll do kind of an episode
Speaker 2: kind of like Better Offline listeners when I get extremely
Speaker 2: pissed off at open AI, imagine if that was about
Speaker 2: something that mattered, oh was fun? Neither of which, And
Speaker 2: it's it's interesting watching this format because it's changed comedy
Speaker 2: in the sense that now Instagram is basically you have
Speaker 2: to constantly hit them with the highlight reels. With podcasts,
Speaker 2: it's people feel trapped in these different formats that really
Speaker 2: do them a disadvantage. Because Jamie does great things in
Speaker 2: her show Molly Conger as well with Weird Little Guys
Speaker 2: Cool Zoneer's got this cool format of kind of just
Speaker 2: talking through a script and a story with a guest,
Speaker 2: sometimes not with the guests. But I almost feel like
Speaker 2: podcasting could return to something like Howard Stern. I think
Speaker 2: like having you and studio is so much better, and
Speaker 2: I think I'm yeah, as a pro remote work guy,
Speaker 2: I feel bad saying this. It almost feels like we
Speaker 2: do need to get back to, perhaps not exactly what
Speaker 2: Howard Sterne does, perhaps not exactly, but getting back to
Speaker 2: what made broadcast actually good, which is narrative style shows
Speaker 2: or in studio fucking actual conversations that are well produced,
Speaker 2: that have guests that know in like each other and
Speaker 2: actually are ready to do an interesting show. It's the
Speaker 2: only reason Howard stuns. He's actually a good broadcast to
Speaker 2: however you feel about him.
Speaker 1: Oh no, well, there's no question. Yeah, I mean the
Speaker 1: proof is in the fact.
Speaker 2: That he's still here.
Speaker 1: Somehow he is still the more the biggest broadcaster there is, really.
Speaker 2: You know, the more things changed to all they stay
Speaker 2: the same.
Speaker 1: Yeah.
Speaker 2: Do you how are you finding podcasting though, because how
Speaker 2: is it different to what you've been used to?
Speaker 1: Well? For me, uh, it's and I don't mean to
Speaker 1: be like whiny about my career, like I'm not acting enough,
Speaker 1: like you know, like I'm not there's just not a
Speaker 1: lot of work out, you know, and when the when
Speaker 1: the Conan Show went off the air, you know, there's
Speaker 1: things here and there, but there's just not enough stuff.
Speaker 1: And especially and again I'm not like I'm not complaining
Speaker 1: about like the state of woe Hollywood. I'm a fifty
Speaker 1: eight year old white man in there's yeah, there's a
Speaker 1: few of us, you know, so it's like you just
Speaker 1: you know, you're I don't. I don't doubt that I
Speaker 1: am going to be working for the rest of you know,
Speaker 1: until I want to stop, basically, and I and I
Speaker 1: do believe that, like I always believe that somebody hires
Speaker 1: me there, that's a good thing, like I mean for them,
Speaker 1: for them, yeah, for them, No, I mean I will,
Speaker 1: I will give them value for whatever they're paying. Right.
Speaker 1: And But I started doing podcasting sort of cuz, you know,
Speaker 1: like just because just you know Conan. Well, honestly, uh,
Speaker 1: the way that it happened, I had people, uh on
Speaker 1: my team, which I love saying, because my team we're
Speaker 1: it's quite a team. We haven't met in years, but
Speaker 1: they still exist, I guess. But I had I've had
Speaker 1: people say you should do a podcast, you should do
Speaker 1: a podcast, right, And there is something to it because
Speaker 1: I am when I think about, you know, the fact
Speaker 1: I am in comedy. That's my main thing. And one
Speaker 1: of the ways that I am funny is in conversation.
Speaker 1: And that's hard to you kind of saw on on Conan,
Speaker 1: but in just like sort of little pieces, but like
Speaker 1: in a longer conversation, I can be funny, you know.
Speaker 1: And and I and I you know, know how to
Speaker 1: keep a conversation going. So they were telling me you
Speaker 1: should you do a podcast, and I felt just sheepish
Speaker 1: about it because I have friends like Scott Ackerman, who
Speaker 1: does comedy Bang Bang and Jimmy Pardo who does never
Speaker 1: not funny, and those guys are real, Like I did
Speaker 1: their podcasts and I was like, what is a podcast?
Speaker 1: When I was doing their podcast, they were you know,
Speaker 1: very early pioneers of whatever this thing is. So I
Speaker 1: felt like I would just be in like the diletanti
Speaker 1: ish fucking you know, TV boy coming in with it.
Speaker 1: You know, yeah, like build like I can do it
Speaker 1: too kind of thing. So I just was kind of
Speaker 1: embarrassed to do it. But then you know, it.
Speaker 2: Was the first white boy to be embarrassed by podcasting.
Speaker 1: But I just thought there was a certain point where
Speaker 1: I thought, you know what, it would be good. And
Speaker 1: also too, it was like a point in my life
Speaker 1: when I just was trying just try to I just
Speaker 1: I had a big moment where I was like I
Speaker 1: need to say yes to things, I need to try things,
Speaker 1: and and so I thought, yeah, let's do a podcast.
Speaker 1: And I came up with the concept for the Three
Speaker 1: Questions podcast. And I started to do it, and I
Speaker 1: you know, I listened to it and made you know,
Speaker 1: sort of corrected and studied myself and thought about the
Speaker 1: things that I didn't like what I was that I
Speaker 1: was doing and the things that I did like that
Speaker 1: I was doing, and eventually, over those six years i've
Speaker 1: been doing it, got better at it. Right now, I
Speaker 1: feel very confident in my ability to do an hour
Speaker 1: long interview that is very much listenable, funny, interesting, thought provoking,
Speaker 1: sometimes even and very much worth people's time.
Speaker 2: And it's not it's not always comedy.
Speaker 1: It's not always comedy. Yeah, it's not always comedy. And
Speaker 1: there's a part of me, and this is just my
Speaker 1: old TV brain, there's part of me it's like, Wow,
Speaker 1: I've gotten good at this one thing. I'm not going
Speaker 1: to be Charlie Rose. What the fuck is it?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: You know, like, yeah, I'm I'm I know how to
Speaker 1: interview me. Well, no, I know, but I mean but
Speaker 1: it's like, you know, I know how to interview people.
Speaker 1: But it's at the same time that like literally thousands
Speaker 1: of other people have learned how to interview people. And
Speaker 1: I mean, I'm not and I'm it's it's just like
Speaker 1: it's it's not and I don't mean to. I enjoy it.
Speaker 1: It's a fun thing, but I if if I got
Speaker 1: a busy, if I got busy acting, I would put
Speaker 1: podcasting aside. And that's just the way it is, you know,
Speaker 1: I mean, and that's just my preferences, you know.
Speaker 2: That makes sense. And it's interesting though, because it's like
Speaker 2: you moved into this little broadcast career because there was
Speaker 2: space and that's what the internet to do.
Speaker 1: And I'm doing a radio show now.
Speaker 2: Yeah, actually the radio show. Do you go into studio
Speaker 2: every time?
Speaker 1: I do?
Speaker 2: I do?
Speaker 1: And And it was originally sort of like the conception was.
Speaker 1: And also because doing something live in the serious studios
Speaker 1: is it like technically it's a much more complicated thing
Speaker 1: than just going in and recording something. So when we
Speaker 1: when we first came, well, they came to me and
Speaker 1: they were like, we want to do more. We want
Speaker 1: the Conean channel to have some actual sort of radio
Speaker 1: content rather than just be old clips of the show
Speaker 1: and podcasts.
Speaker 2: And rare content being like interviews.
Speaker 1: Like a call in show that was They said, do
Speaker 1: you want to do a call in show? And I
Speaker 1: was like, fuck, yeah, that sounds fun. That sounds like,
Speaker 1: you know, I get to play radio.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: And and then so they came to me and like,
Speaker 1: we want you to do something. I was like and
Speaker 1: they said, you know, like they were like, maybe more
Speaker 1: of the three questions, and I was like, I don't
Speaker 1: want to do more, you know, I do like once
Speaker 1: a week is plenty of that podcast. But then they
Speaker 1: said call in show. I was like, oh fuck, yeah absolutely,
Speaker 1: And I was like and I would just have be
Speaker 1: silly topics that like you know, cocktail party conversations, you know,
Speaker 1: like yeah we just recently did like you know, when's
Speaker 1: the last time you shit your pants? Kind of stuff,
Speaker 1: and or dating disasters or medical nightmares and just just
Speaker 1: you know, meant to be sort of and there's something
Speaker 1: you know, there's some people like why do you focus
Speaker 1: on all these on all these dark things. That's like
Speaker 1: I don't because that's how I made, you know, yeah yeah.
Speaker 1: And it's like what if I want to talk about
Speaker 1: you know, like when's the last time you were inspired
Speaker 1: by someone's good deeds? Fuck that, I don't care about that.
Speaker 1: I want to hear you shit your pants?
Speaker 2: Or if it's like fun stuf like happy fun stories
Speaker 2: can be fun, like you can laugh about you know,
Speaker 2: there's actually vanishingly few of them, Like I've been working on,
Speaker 2: uh of my newsletter at the moment, which people are
Speaker 2: going to really thrilling stuff about diet sentence you gonna
Speaker 2: love this at it but one of the most magical
Speaker 2: experiences when it's always work. So I want to about
Speaker 2: their friends kaisekiawah amutually seeing tonight and things. I finally
Speaker 2: got to realize where he comes from, because he will
Speaker 2: get go down these rabbits holes with my rabbits holes.
Speaker 2: Jesus Christ, rabbit holes, rabbit holes. There we go, rabbits holes,
Speaker 2: and he would go down these rabbit holes, except he's like,
Speaker 2: you should email my mother, and his mother's in some
Speaker 2: sort of finance. So I've now got both his mother
Speaker 2: and him sending me links about the same thing. See,
Speaker 2: that's a kind of lovely fun story that can be told. Yeah, However,
Speaker 2: the funniest stories are things like me moving the arm
Speaker 2: on my tone and smacking myself right in the nutsag
Speaker 2: it's like going, oh see that's funny, or like when
Speaker 2: you shot your pants actually don't know, like twenty years
Speaker 2: ago anyway, less about that the better. But it's something
Speaker 2: that strikes people of this that's really funny is despite
Speaker 2: all of the technology, despite the fact that everyone could
Speaker 2: podcast and broadcasts all the same, what we are describing
Speaker 2: is basic broadcast fundamentals seem to actually be very fucking interesting.
Speaker 2: That's what people really come to. We want connection, We
Speaker 2: want to hear the absurdity of life.
Speaker 1: As the radio died, all of what the radio was
Speaker 1: filled with just came over here. People talking about stuff,
Speaker 1: learning about you know, you being a listener, learning about stuff,
Speaker 1: you laughing, you know, you crying, you know, you hearing
Speaker 1: creepy stuff, you know, gossipy stuff. That's just it was
Speaker 1: just the radio, and now it's the radio over here,
Speaker 1: and it's you know, and the one things I think
Speaker 1: I think about it. It's the same thing with streaming,
Speaker 1: you know, TV network TV is I mean, who fucking
Speaker 1: watches network telling? I watched some of it the other
Speaker 1: you know, it's it's a it's astounding sometimes.
Speaker 2: You know, I think Blue Bloods is on every channel.
Speaker 1: It's just you know, yeah, it's except it's.
Speaker 2: Really fictional because the police off its to solve crimes
Speaker 2: in it.
Speaker 1: It's there's all kinds of cop shittwork. TV is just
Speaker 1: like cop worship, you know, and they solve crimes and
Speaker 1: it's like grown up Paul Patrol. But TV, you know,
Speaker 1: moved to streaming. And somebody pointed out because streamings, aren't
Speaker 1: you know? These companies pour a ton of money into
Speaker 1: streaming and then they go, okay, now how do we
Speaker 1: get that money back out? And they all go, I
Speaker 1: don't know. I don't more subscriber bazillion people on here,
Speaker 1: so they don't know how to get the money back out.
Speaker 1: So they start talking about advertising. Right, So we're just like, okay,
Speaker 1: we're just back to television then, but like somebody, I
Speaker 1: don't even remember who. I should have remembered who, because
Speaker 1: it was an excellent point. We've gone back to the
Speaker 1: broadcast model, advertising paying for it, except all the worker
Speaker 1: protections have been blown up, and all of the money, yes,
Speaker 1: all of the money is going to like they are
Speaker 1: small places, you know. Yeah, it's and it's the same
Speaker 1: with podcasts. Yes, radio died, You've got podcasting and well
Speaker 1: you know, podcasting is surviving on advertising dollars. Email.
Speaker 2: Oh, did anyone, by the way, you one of the
Speaker 2: listeners who emailed me about the ai ads that run
Speaker 2: after the air? I know one hundred and fifty of
Speaker 2: you email me every extent. Did you hear the ai ad?
Speaker 2: I know you are not the first person to tell
Speaker 2: me I'm now going to get thirty emails being like handy.
Speaker 1: Now. I like that they think that you're so like
Speaker 1: royal that you don't even know who's advertising on your show.
Speaker 2: And I even if I didn't know, I would know
Speaker 2: now because I also get a fair amount of very
Speaker 2: nice email, So I can't complain.
Speaker 1: But you do, Yes, it's very evident that you do.
Speaker 2: But it's I think what it is is like what
Speaker 2: you're saying with with podcasting, it's the advertising has to
Speaker 2: drive it. I know people who have started podcasting like, shit,
Speaker 2: I can't make this work because like where do I
Speaker 2: get the money from reader pledges? And it's like what
Speaker 2: a surprise, There's not actually that many people will pay
Speaker 2: for stuff, right And I think that that's the one
Speaker 2: of the bigger problems in media right now. There are
Speaker 2: things that people will pay for this four or foot
Speaker 2: four media. In tech, there's defector in sports, like there's
Speaker 2: some really great complications like that, and flaming hydro as
Speaker 2: well another great one. But at scale it doesn't exist,
Speaker 2: and I don't think it exists for podcasts like you
Speaker 2: have like thirty podcasts that can make money on the
Speaker 2: read it thing. Yeah, And it's just it's frustrating. And
Speaker 2: also I don't know if it's fixable. I don't know
Speaker 2: if there's a way of making the patron model work,
Speaker 2: even though it's the one that's the most honest.
Speaker 3: Uh.
Speaker 1: I have no input on those things I have. That
Speaker 1: is so even beyond me, and I don't I'm terrible
Speaker 1: with business and stuff. I mean, I understand making things entertaining,
Speaker 1: right and I and that's that's it for me. And
Speaker 1: that's whenever I've been approached about a television show and
Speaker 1: they're like, we wish more young women would watch, I'd
Speaker 1: be like, well, I don't know. I mean, I guess.
Speaker 1: I mean one of my shows that was an actual
Speaker 1: note and it just seemed to come out the other
Speaker 1: end of just like lots of scenes of the characters
Speaker 1: telling each other how much they liked each other, which
Speaker 1: I just just point a certain point. I was like,
Speaker 1: is that is that it? And it just seemed like
Speaker 1: what the woman do? Just it sticks?
Speaker 2: Women have emotions. It's no when we did the because
Speaker 2: a lot of what we're talking about is just kind
Speaker 2: of broadcast fundamentals at some point. And so we did
Speaker 2: a long thirteen and a half hours in five days
Speaker 2: at CES big consumer it's called the Consumer Electronic Show. Yeah,
Speaker 2: a big thing we got.
Speaker 1: I did a remote there.
Speaker 2: If you're ever in, you'll join us? Yeah, no, please.
Speaker 2: But the big thing I did was we're talked about
Speaker 2: loving everyone, like the fact that we had friendship and
Speaker 2: all this thing. We got so many emails being like,
Speaker 2: it's so nice to hear people saying they like each other. Oh. Absolutely, yeah,
Speaker 2: And you have to wonder if some of these shows
Speaker 2: the big problem is they're like, how do we get
Speaker 2: young women to listen to this? What like, have you
Speaker 2: tried fucking asking one? Have you tried asking a woman?
Speaker 2: You're like, noah, no, no, no, you can't do that. Yeah,
Speaker 2: we have to focus group it and there'll be a
Speaker 2: bird in there. I think it's just it's And then
Speaker 2: even with podcasts that don't do well, and they're like,
Speaker 2: why is this not doing well? Does it suck?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: Is it boring? Because the other side of it is
Speaker 2: there are a ton of podcasts that don't bother to
Speaker 2: try that just they saw the I don't know, trap
Speaker 2: a trap house or something like, oh, there's just a
Speaker 2: bunch of guys talking. But when you get down to
Speaker 2: the core of it, it's like esscentually people who like
Speaker 2: each other and enjoy being in this chemistry.
Speaker 1: Les. Yes, it's just they're good talkers.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, yeah, they're good talking and words and such. Well. Andy,
Speaker 2: it's been such a pleasure having Oh, thank you.
Speaker 1: It's been really a fun and interesting conversation.
Speaker 2: So where can people find you?
Speaker 1: My podcast, The Three Questions, which is available at your
Speaker 1: podcast store. I will put the Ladies in there as well,
Speaker 1: and the in the same feed, you will get replays
Speaker 1: of my call in show, which is on Serious XM
Speaker 1: Wednesdays one pm Pacific What would there be four pm Eastern,
Speaker 1: usually live, sometimes to tape, but lately it's just been
Speaker 1: live because we've been able to and I've been getting
Speaker 1: get I have a great guest host, usually somebody really funny, cool,
Speaker 1: and it's somebody that I want to be there. That's
Speaker 1: That's the nice thing about my show too, is like
Speaker 1: there's never somebody that's just like you got to talk
Speaker 1: to these person. Yeah, So it's a it's one of
Speaker 1: the most fun hours of my week, which I have
Speaker 1: always felt that if you have fun, your viewer or
Speaker 1: listener will have fun. You have if you genuinely have fun,
Speaker 1: so that's on on Sirius XM channel one oh four,
Speaker 1: which is the Conin channel. And I love I and
Speaker 1: I mean honestly, I'm I am an early adopter of
Speaker 1: satellite radio and I love satellite radio. I have it
Speaker 1: in my car. I listen to it on my phone,
Speaker 1: and not just because of Howard, but it's like, it's great.
Speaker 1: There's a very very sort of niche specific music channels
Speaker 1: and that's totally up my alley.
Speaker 2: Tell yeah, yeah, well, I've had a lovely time and
Speaker 2: you're going to get this thing off to this. It's
Speaker 2: a recording that I recorded at the beginning of the show,
Speaker 2: and I like my swagger and boldness. I will then
Speaker 2: promise that I'm going to re record this. Mattasowski, my producer,
Speaker 2: will hear this and he'll say, oh, it's gonna do
Speaker 2: it this time. I probably won't. Nevertheless, I love you
Speaker 2: all for listening. Thank you so much, Thank you for listening.
Speaker 3: To Better Offline.
Speaker 2: The editor and composer of the Better Offline theme song
Speaker 2: is Matasowski. You can check out more of his music
Speaker 2: and audio projects at Matasowski dot com, M A T
Speaker 2: T O, s O W s KI dot com. You
Speaker 2: can email me at easy at Better offline dot com
Speaker 2: or visit better Offline dot com to find more podcast
Speaker 2: links and of course my newsletter. I also really recommend
Speaker 2: you go to chat dot Where's youreed dot at to
Speaker 2: visit the discord, and go to our slash.
Speaker 1: Better Offline to check out our reddit.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much for listening.
Speaker 1: Better Offline is a production of cool Zone Media.
Speaker 2: For more from cool Zone Media, visit our website cool
Speaker 2: Zonemedia dot com, or check us out on the iHeartRadio
Speaker 3: App, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get your podcasts.