WEBVTT - Meta's Earnings and Musk's Twitter 0:00:02.240 --> 0:00:05.520 From the heart of where innovation, money and power Colli 0:00:06.360 --> 0:00:10.920 in Silicon Vallet and beyond. This is Bloomberg Technology with 0:00:10.960 --> 0:00:27.040 Emily Jay. I'm Emily Check in San Francisco, and this 0:00:27.080 --> 0:00:29.400 is Bloomberg Technology. Coming up in the next hour, a 0:00:29.480 --> 0:00:32.479 big post earnings pop for Meta in sharp contrast to 0:00:32.640 --> 0:00:36.360 its plunge last quarter. We'll discuss how Facebook is holding 0:00:36.479 --> 0:00:40.400 on to its users. Plus we'll talk to Jason Goldman. 0:00:40.479 --> 0:00:42.559 He was part of the founding team at Twitter and 0:00:42.720 --> 0:00:45.080 an early board member. What does he think about Elon 0:00:45.159 --> 0:00:48.479 Musk swooping in and his version of free speech? Goldman 0:00:48.600 --> 0:00:51.320 joins us this hour and we'll talk to the co 0:00:51.400 --> 0:00:53.159 founder and CEO of twenty three and me and wi 0:00:53.240 --> 0:00:57.560 Jetski about their new play in telehealth, progress on drug discovery, 0:00:57.720 --> 0:01:01.400 and her vision for building a healthcare company unlike anything 0:01:01.560 --> 0:01:03.480 we've seen before. We will get to all of that 0:01:03.520 --> 0:01:06.280 in a moment, but first, big tech earnings continue Meta 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.760 and qual calm out. I want to stay with Meta 0:01:08.800 --> 0:01:11.360 and bring in Angelo Zeno of c f r A. 0:01:11.800 --> 0:01:16.160 So this after Facebook daily users declining for the first 0:01:16.200 --> 0:01:21.120 time in a decade last quarter, that number growing this quarter. Angelo, 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:26.440 is this a blip or is this the long term thing. Yeah, listen, 0:01:26.480 --> 0:01:29.320 I think this is um really kind of meta and 0:01:29.440 --> 0:01:32.240 just it seems like three months ago just kind of 0:01:32.240 --> 0:01:36.480 really setting the bar extremely low here, UM, and you know, 0:01:36.520 --> 0:01:38.520 they were able to kind of come through with flying 0:01:38.560 --> 0:01:40.959 colors in many respects. I mean, despite the fact that 0:01:41.000 --> 0:01:43.320 you kind of had the rush of Ukraine War ongoing 0:01:43.680 --> 0:01:46.600 UM soultness out in Europe. UM, this was a company 0:01:46.640 --> 0:01:49.200 that essentially grew six percent on the daily active users 0:01:49.240 --> 0:01:53.040 side of things year of a year. Overall, pretty good numbers, 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:57.400 i'd say on night front, growing across every region outside 0:01:57.400 --> 0:01:58.840 of Europe, and you kind of have to give them 0:01:58.840 --> 0:02:01.320 a pass out in Europe. So UM, I think, you know, 0:02:01.440 --> 0:02:03.360 I don't necessarily think this is a blip. I think 0:02:03.520 --> 0:02:05.360 this is a company that's now going to continue to 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.000 see growth on the d AU side, but there will 0:02:08.040 --> 0:02:11.760 probably be kind of very modest in nature. So UM 0:02:11.760 --> 0:02:13.720 what whether or not we continue to see six percent, 0:02:13.760 --> 0:02:15.720 who knows, maybe it will be closer to to low 0:02:15.800 --> 0:02:18.560 midst low single digit growth, But nonetheless, I think it 0:02:18.600 --> 0:02:21.000 alleviates the big fear out there, which was the fact 0:02:21.040 --> 0:02:25.480 that we could have seen potentially negative d AU type 0:02:25.560 --> 0:02:29.560 numbers in the coming quarters. Now, Mark Zuckerberg in the 0:02:29.639 --> 0:02:32.359 earnings released saying, we made progress this quarter across a 0:02:32.440 --> 0:02:35.040 number of key company priorities, and we remain confident in 0:02:35.080 --> 0:02:38.840 the long term opportunities and growth that are product roadmap 0:02:39.080 --> 0:02:43.200 will unlock. Another significant point here is that they reduced 0:02:43.639 --> 0:02:47.200 their expenses forecast. A lot of analysts and investors have 0:02:47.240 --> 0:02:50.080 been pretty skeptical about the amount of money uh that 0:02:50.160 --> 0:02:54.720 Facebook and Meta are pouring into their virtual reality dreams. 0:02:55.080 --> 0:02:58.639 How big a deal is this? So they essentially left 0:02:58.680 --> 0:03:01.160 the capex number unchanged, you sed, right, But in terms 0:03:01.160 --> 0:03:04.280 to your point, the compex number definitely cut a big here. 0:03:04.560 --> 0:03:07.480 I think that's definitely a positive sign. And one of 0:03:07.480 --> 0:03:09.840 our biggest fears was, um, the fact that they were 0:03:09.840 --> 0:03:12.720 just spending way too much on that initiative. It was 0:03:12.760 --> 0:03:17.160 essentially gonna squeeze the margins um for the foreseeable future 0:03:17.240 --> 0:03:19.919 because of the slowing growth on the ad side of things. 0:03:20.200 --> 0:03:23.160 So listen, Ultimately, I think it's a good thing that 0:03:23.160 --> 0:03:27.760 they're tempering some of those uh expense growth numbers. UM. Nonetheless, 0:03:27.800 --> 0:03:31.359 it's going to continue away. They are spending significantly, They 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:34.000 will need to continue to spend significantly. I also think 0:03:34.000 --> 0:03:36.080 it's important to note here, I mean, listen, they do 0:03:36.160 --> 0:03:38.880 have they continue to have a problem in this sense 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:41.920 that UM they're catering, in our view to essentially the 0:03:42.240 --> 0:03:45.000 wrong UM ecosystem, in the sense that they have to 0:03:45.040 --> 0:03:47.400 get younger, and they have to get younger quick and 0:03:47.760 --> 0:03:50.520 that's the whole point of the whole metaverse, right, and 0:03:50.760 --> 0:03:53.360 uh that as a result, you need to spend aggressively 0:03:53.400 --> 0:03:55.280 on that side of things. They've got an opportunity here 0:03:55.320 --> 0:03:57.680 because it looks like companies like in Apple and Sony 0:03:57.720 --> 0:03:59.480 are kind of pushing out some of their initiatives in 0:03:59.520 --> 0:04:04.320 the metaver into three. So UM I wouldn't necessarily take 0:04:04.360 --> 0:04:07.000 the fund fully off the gas here from them, but 0:04:07.080 --> 0:04:09.400 nonetheless they are spending aggressively, and I think that is 0:04:09.400 --> 0:04:11.960 the right roof Still, I wonder why investors are focusing 0:04:11.960 --> 0:04:13.440 so much on the good news here and not the 0:04:13.520 --> 0:04:17.840 bad revenue. Did miss estimates? Their guidance on revenue is 0:04:17.880 --> 0:04:20.000 also a little light, and this in the context of 0:04:20.520 --> 0:04:25.080 not great add numbers from snap from YouTube. You know, 0:04:25.520 --> 0:04:28.839 what are we gonna be seeing here over the longer term. 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:30.919 I think it's all expectations, to be honest with you, 0:04:31.000 --> 0:04:32.640 I mean, this is a company that was trading less 0:04:32.640 --> 0:04:38.080 than thirteen times our three estimate, so the bar again 0:04:38.160 --> 0:04:42.080 was said extremely low. We're talking depressed of evaluation, essentially 0:04:42.120 --> 0:04:45.560 training at evaluation where you know many people have left 0:04:45.560 --> 0:04:48.520 the company for dead. So um. The reason I think 0:04:48.560 --> 0:04:50.640 you've kind of seen this change of sentiment here after 0:04:50.680 --> 0:04:52.919 hours is because it looks like, at least for the 0:04:53.000 --> 0:04:56.240 time being, that type of scenario has been left off 0:04:56.279 --> 0:04:59.679 the table, despite the fact that you know the revenue 0:04:59.680 --> 0:05:03.400 guy the UM for Q two specifically is below when 0:05:03.520 --> 0:05:06.360 where the street had expected expected. I think there was 0:05:06.440 --> 0:05:09.760 just a lot more hate kind of going on going 0:05:09.800 --> 0:05:12.640 into this quarter. Well, dad is a strong word for 0:05:12.680 --> 0:05:16.520 a company with three billion users, even if ad growth 0:05:16.720 --> 0:05:20.520 MRS estimates. Angelosino c f R A thank you so much. 0:05:28.680 --> 0:05:32.760 As we dig deeper into Elon musk billion dollar Twitter takeover, 0:05:32.880 --> 0:05:35.880 we are learning more about what Musk can and can't do. 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:40.240 He can't tweet anything that quote disparages the company or 0:05:40.279 --> 0:05:43.159 any of its representatives, a rule he seems to have 0:05:43.360 --> 0:05:46.600 already violated. There's also a one billion dollar breakup fee 0:05:46.640 --> 0:05:48.839 if the deal doesn't go through. For more on what 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:51.359 it all means, we are joined by Bloomberg's Max Chafkin. 0:05:51.600 --> 0:05:55.280 So Max Musk has already tweeted some disparaging remarks about 0:05:55.320 --> 0:05:59.920 vidigade twitters chief legal counsel. This in response to an 0:06:00.040 --> 0:06:03.160 article about her crying over the deal in a meeting 0:06:03.640 --> 0:06:06.039 political article. How likely is it that this kind of 0:06:06.080 --> 0:06:09.839 behavior is actually going to get Musk into regulatory trouble. 0:06:10.440 --> 0:06:12.560 I think it's pretty unlikely, and and I think that 0:06:12.600 --> 0:06:14.320 has to do with kind of this. This is going 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:17.760 to come down to your definition of disparaging. And first 0:06:17.760 --> 0:06:21.080 of all, whether Twitter is going to argue that it's disparaging, 0:06:21.120 --> 0:06:23.479 I think, um, you know, Musk can say, hey, I'm 0:06:23.480 --> 0:06:26.560 just commenting on this, you know, public debate, and yeah, 0:06:26.600 --> 0:06:29.240 there are a bunch of trolls coming in and and 0:06:29.240 --> 0:06:32.120 and coming after this Twitter exact, you know, in in 0:06:32.160 --> 0:06:35.479 harassing and uncomfortable threatening perhaps ways, but that you know, 0:06:35.560 --> 0:06:37.600 he Musk didn't do that, And I think that that 0:06:37.640 --> 0:06:40.400 would be his argument. And I have a feeling that 0:06:40.400 --> 0:06:43.520 that's going to hold if not you know, water in 0:06:43.520 --> 0:06:46.440 the public arena, public opinion, it will hold legal and 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:48.760 regulatory water. So I don't think there's likely to be 0:06:48.800 --> 0:06:52.560 any kind of uh, any consequences in terms of the 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.800 legal risk. I do think this does raise questions about, 0:06:55.839 --> 0:06:58.120 you know, what kind of company is Elon Musk gonna run? 0:06:58.320 --> 0:07:00.520 What is it when you're going after your own executive 0:07:00.560 --> 0:07:02.440 as a company that these people are going to work 0:07:02.440 --> 0:07:05.120 for you. Uh, you know they're gonna be responsible to you. 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:08.720 It just doesn't seem like, um, the smartest thing to do, 0:07:09.200 --> 0:07:11.080 right And of course there's a contingent of people that 0:07:11.160 --> 0:07:13.080 are not excited about this, and a contingent of people 0:07:13.080 --> 0:07:15.000 on Twitter that are very excited about this. I mean, 0:07:15.240 --> 0:07:17.640 you know, Musk Tolemo is playing with fire. I mean, 0:07:17.720 --> 0:07:20.800 can we expect anything but more of these kinds of 0:07:20.840 --> 0:07:23.320 tweets until this deal closes, which you know it could 0:07:23.320 --> 0:07:26.080 be a few months. We've seen Musk, you know, basically 0:07:26.080 --> 0:07:29.560 fight with the security the SEC for the last four 0:07:29.640 --> 0:07:32.320 years or so, and he's not backing down. You know, 0:07:32.400 --> 0:07:33.920 just a couple of days ago he was he was, 0:07:34.040 --> 0:07:36.160 you know, sort of reiterating his lack of respect for 0:07:36.200 --> 0:07:39.160 the San Francisco office of the SEC. So, you know, 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:41.560 this is somebody who there there are the rules, and 0:07:41.560 --> 0:07:44.000 then then then there's what he's going to do. And 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:48.160 obviously he's become very successful pushing the envelope. I think 0:07:48.200 --> 0:07:50.400 he's going to continue to do that. They clearly with 0:07:50.400 --> 0:07:52.720 this agreement tried to create some carve out so he 0:07:52.760 --> 0:07:55.720 wouldn't like, immediately violate the agreement. They said, you know, 0:07:55.960 --> 0:07:58.040 Elon can tweet about the deal. You know we won't, 0:07:58.040 --> 0:08:00.760 but Elon can um. But of course he's he's going 0:08:00.840 --> 0:08:02.480 to be himself and he's going to find ways to 0:08:02.480 --> 0:08:05.240 push the boundaries. All right, Well, we're gonna be following 0:08:05.240 --> 0:08:07.680 it all tweet by tweet. Max Chafkin, thank you. I 0:08:07.680 --> 0:08:10.000 want to continue this conversation with a man who knows 0:08:10.040 --> 0:08:12.400 a lot about Twitter and its history. He was part 0:08:12.400 --> 0:08:14.880 of the founding team at Twitter and a board member 0:08:15.120 --> 0:08:18.400 from two thousand seven to two thousand ten. Jason Goldman 0:08:18.680 --> 0:08:21.640 joining me now in an exclusive interview. Jason, good to 0:08:21.680 --> 0:08:25.480 have you here. I know this arouses a lot of emotions. 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:28.640 Now that you've had a couple of days to digest this, 0:08:29.040 --> 0:08:33.160 how are you feeling about Elon Musk buying Twitter. I mean, 0:08:33.160 --> 0:08:36.280 it's just a disappointment because I think the company really 0:08:36.320 --> 0:08:38.640 could use great stewardship at this point, and what he's 0:08:38.679 --> 0:08:41.120 revealing is just how un serious a person he is 0:08:41.480 --> 0:08:45.000 about both his ideas for the product and the philosophy 0:08:45.040 --> 0:08:47.760 that underpins it. So I think some would say it's 0:08:47.760 --> 0:08:51.840 a disappointment that Twitter hasn't grown faster, racked up more users, 0:08:51.960 --> 0:08:57.200 become more influential. How would you respond to that? I mean, like, 0:08:57.400 --> 0:09:01.240 you know, the business performance of the company has always 0:09:01.240 --> 0:09:04.080 sort of dragged behind the cultural importance of the company. 0:09:04.280 --> 0:09:06.920 We always have known that that has a much bigger 0:09:06.920 --> 0:09:10.640 footprint with journalists and with media celebrities, musicians, that it 0:09:10.679 --> 0:09:13.280 has this huge cultural footprint, and I think that's what 0:09:13.480 --> 0:09:17.680 made it an attractive opportunity for Elon. So what do 0:09:17.720 --> 0:09:21.040 you think is missing from the conversation? We've seen pundits 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.320 talking about this now for three weeks, we've heard from 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:28.200 Ellen himself a lot of debates. But you know, what 0:09:28.240 --> 0:09:30.840 do you think is missing? Given your vantage point and 0:09:30.960 --> 0:09:35.160 history with this company going back fifteen years? So, I mean, 0:09:35.200 --> 0:09:38.240 I think the biggest problem is the free speech framing 0:09:38.360 --> 0:09:40.839 that he continues to use to talk about what he 0:09:40.880 --> 0:09:42.920 wants to do with the product. It just reveals a 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.920 very naive, un serious approach to the content moderation issues 0:09:46.960 --> 0:09:49.640 he will face. Uh, And I say it's unserious because 0:09:49.760 --> 0:09:52.520 his own standard of we should just allow for anything 0:09:52.520 --> 0:09:56.319 that's not disallowed by law is self defeating. Because he's 0:09:56.360 --> 0:10:00.480 talked about wanting to remove anonymous content, he's at about 0:10:00.480 --> 0:10:03.679 wanting to remove bots. Both of those things are examples 0:10:03.760 --> 0:10:06.200 of content that is not you know that that are 0:10:06.200 --> 0:10:09.920 not There's no First Amendment carve out for for anonymity. 0:10:10.040 --> 0:10:14.160 You can definitely express yourself anonymously. Uh. And so it 0:10:14.240 --> 0:10:15.960 just shows that he hasn't really kind of put the 0:10:15.960 --> 0:10:18.960 dots together on what what needs to what needs to 0:10:19.000 --> 0:10:20.920 happen in this space. So let's talk about that a 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:22.920 little bit more, because we had a very lively debate 0:10:22.960 --> 0:10:26.840 here on the show yesterday with David Sachs and Tam 0:10:26.840 --> 0:10:29.679 O'Brien are Bloomberg opinion columnists. I want you to take 0:10:29.720 --> 0:10:34.560 a quick listen to that exchange. The platform is absolutely 0:10:34.640 --> 0:10:36.760 rife with bots, and I think Ellen has already promised 0:10:36.760 --> 0:10:39.679 he's gonna crack down on bots, and he has expertise 0:10:39.720 --> 0:10:43.320 at his disposal, the premier AI engineers who he can 0:10:43.360 --> 0:10:46.360 deploy to solve that problem. I actually think that speech 0:10:46.480 --> 0:10:50.560 free speech to it's fake not if it's fake speech. 0:10:50.920 --> 0:10:53.440 So the first hold on a second, then let me finish. 0:10:53.440 --> 0:10:55.840 When you put bots on Twitter and pretend to be 0:10:55.880 --> 0:10:58.199 someone you're not, when you pretend, when you basically violate 0:10:58.240 --> 0:11:00.720 the authenticity requirement, you are basically trading a kind of 0:11:00.760 --> 0:11:03.199 fraud that is not free speech, that's fake speech. Is 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:06.880 perfectly fair game under any kind of free speech policy 0:11:07.080 --> 0:11:09.280 to take down those kinds of bots, And I fully 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:11.720 expect that Ellen will be far more effective at doing 0:11:11.800 --> 0:11:13.720 that than the current management of Twitter, because they've been 0:11:13.840 --> 0:11:17.760 unable to do that. Jason, what's your reaction to that. 0:11:17.960 --> 0:11:19.880 I mean, that's a standard that is in no way 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:24.080 supported by free speech, Uh, legislation, that's no way supported 0:11:24.080 --> 0:11:27.120 by a constitutional standard of what free speeches or it's 0:11:27.160 --> 0:11:30.200 just a notion that he's exposing that anonymous speech somehow 0:11:30.240 --> 0:11:32.559 doesn't get free speech protections. There's no case law that 0:11:32.679 --> 0:11:36.360 establishes that's true. He's just purporting that to be true. Uh. 0:11:36.520 --> 0:11:38.920 And moreover, if that's a standard, what other things would 0:11:38.960 --> 0:11:42.680 he look to remove? Are we going to remove? For example? Um, 0:11:42.720 --> 0:11:44.480 are we going to Are we going to allow back 0:11:44.480 --> 0:11:48.320 on the platform people who harass parents of children who 0:11:48.360 --> 0:11:51.080 are murdered at Sandy Hook? Because even if they if 0:11:51.160 --> 0:11:53.679 even if they use their real names. Like this just 0:11:53.840 --> 0:11:56.640 isn't a serious standard that's being articulated, and he hasn't 0:11:56.679 --> 0:11:59.040 thought through and David hasn't thought through all of the 0:11:59.080 --> 0:12:02.440 implications that would come from adopting it. So by free speech, 0:12:02.440 --> 0:12:05.320 Ellen says, he means that which matches the law. I 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:09.480 am against censorship that goes far beyond the law. What 0:12:09.559 --> 0:12:14.200 are your biggest fears about Elon Musk taking over Twitter? 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:17.160 So the type of content that Twitter has cleaned up 0:12:17.160 --> 0:12:20.440 in the last you know, six years, seven years include 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:23.800 things that were in response to real world occurrences. You know, 0:12:23.880 --> 0:12:26.960 you go back to and you look at the rife 0:12:27.080 --> 0:12:31.080 of content that was being used by ultra extremists uh 0:12:31.400 --> 0:12:34.840 in including isis to recruit people off of Twitter, and 0:12:34.880 --> 0:12:37.480 so there was beheading videos and just content in general 0:12:37.679 --> 0:12:39.600 that was meant to appeal to an audience to recruit 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:41.840 people to ultra vans. Are we going to allow that 0:12:41.880 --> 0:12:44.959 back on? Those acts may be illegal, but the content 0:12:45.000 --> 0:12:48.720 about it is not illegal. There's no there's no First Amendment. 0:12:48.920 --> 0:12:51.520 There's no First Amendment rule that says that you cannot 0:12:51.640 --> 0:12:54.600 use uh you speech in that way. So there's no 0:12:54.679 --> 0:12:57.880 case law that would support Elon's contention that that content 0:12:57.960 --> 0:13:00.920 has to be removed because of legal reason. So I 0:13:01.000 --> 0:13:03.520 just don't think that standard holds water when you look 0:13:03.520 --> 0:13:05.880 at the type of things that he is going to 0:13:06.080 --> 0:13:10.040 want to still not be on the platform now, Jack Dorsey, 0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.040 and obviously I know you work closely with Jack. In 0:13:12.080 --> 0:13:15.320 the earliest days, he thanked Ellen for getting Twitter out 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:19.640 of a quote impossible situation, to which you responded with 0:13:19.679 --> 0:13:21.920 a meme of a guy in a hotdog suit, saying 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:26.000 it was an impossible situation, says founder in control of 0:13:26.120 --> 0:13:29.200 company for the last decade. What are you trying to 0:13:29.240 --> 0:13:33.280 say there? I mean Jack has been either the executive 0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:35.920 chairman with control of the company or the CEO since 0:13:35.960 --> 0:13:38.800 October of two thousand ten. He's had the most direct 0:13:38.960 --> 0:13:41.080 role in shaping the course of the company for the 0:13:41.080 --> 0:13:44.600 past twelve years. When he wrote his resignation letter in 0:13:44.840 --> 0:13:47.320 just of November of last year, he said, I worked 0:13:47.320 --> 0:13:49.559 hard to ensure the company can break away from its 0:13:49.559 --> 0:13:53.160 founding and its founders. And so to now say, you 0:13:53.200 --> 0:13:55.719 know to now be only less than five months from 0:13:55.760 --> 0:13:58.520 that and say solving for the problem of it being 0:13:58.520 --> 0:14:01.040 a company. Ellen is the senor or solution I trust 0:14:01.240 --> 0:14:03.560 what what happened in the last five months. I thought 0:14:03.600 --> 0:14:06.080 it had been established in this trajectory, it was able 0:14:06.120 --> 0:14:08.480 to break away from the founding and its founders, and 0:14:08.520 --> 0:14:11.800 now Elon Musk, someone who's never been involved before except 0:14:11.880 --> 0:14:14.600 for being a troll on the platform, is the singular 0:14:14.640 --> 0:14:17.800 solution to the trajectory of the company. That seems curious. 0:14:18.920 --> 0:14:20.760 Do you think Jack, I mean, do you do you 0:14:20.840 --> 0:14:25.280 do you blame Jack for anything here? You know, is 0:14:25.320 --> 0:14:28.040 there something you think you should be answering too well? 0:14:28.080 --> 0:14:30.600 He said, I mean, you know, the biggest thing, the 0:14:30.640 --> 0:14:33.600 biggest thing, just concretely today is that Ellen is using 0:14:33.640 --> 0:14:36.280 the platform to troll the employees of the company that 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:40.520 Jack's led, uh, you know for the past twelve years. Uh. 0:14:40.560 --> 0:14:42.360 And that's you know, that's vision, and that's other people 0:14:42.360 --> 0:14:45.440 in the Trust and Safety organization. And and you can 0:14:45.480 --> 0:14:48.720 absolutely critique decisions, content moderation, decisions that have been made 0:14:48.760 --> 0:14:52.400 by the company, but if you absolutely should not allow 0:14:52.480 --> 0:14:56.680 the perspective owner of the company to troll your employees 0:14:57.080 --> 0:14:59.240 um for the decisions that they made. And that's really 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.200 what's going on here and puts the lie to the 0:15:01.240 --> 0:15:05.800 free speech argument. Ellen's not interested in debating this question 0:15:05.960 --> 0:15:07.760 of you know, what content should be allowed or not, 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:11.000 he is simply turning his army of fans on these 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:14.320 employees and allowing them to be targets of racist abuse 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:16.960 and threats. That's not the Lincoln Douglas debates, that's not 0:15:17.160 --> 0:15:19.800 Cicero in the forum, that's not the marketplace of ideas. 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:22.880 That's just using the product as an active troll to 0:15:23.040 --> 0:15:26.400 harass and target employees. And Jack and the board absolutely 0:15:26.440 --> 0:15:29.040 should have the backs of their employees in that case. 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:32.480 So that's just a concrete example of something happening right now. 0:15:33.000 --> 0:15:35.840 Twitter was often, even in its earliest days, overshadowed by 0:15:35.840 --> 0:15:38.520 this sort of Game of Thrones drama. I think even 0:15:38.600 --> 0:15:42.040 you would agree with that, And and I wonder do 0:15:42.080 --> 0:15:45.280 you think do you there has been speculation that Jack 0:15:45.840 --> 0:15:47.960 perhaps had something to do with this, and before maybe 0:15:47.960 --> 0:15:50.320 even Elon Musk started buying shares, what do you think 0:15:50.320 --> 0:15:53.080 of that theory? I mean, you know, so there's I 0:15:53.120 --> 0:15:56.680 think there's the problem with most conspiracies is that they're 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:59.720 they're too clever for anyone to keep secret. Uh. And 0:15:59.760 --> 0:16:01.600 in the case of you know, Jack or so anyone 0:16:01.600 --> 0:16:04.520 else on the board actually working with Ellen or kind 0:16:04.520 --> 0:16:07.240 of originate this deal that obviously would trip a number 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:09.240 of legal red lines that I don't think folks would 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:11.400 be very comfortable doing, and would then for even just 0:16:11.480 --> 0:16:14.160 increase the chances that it would leak. I do think 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.560 it's I do think it's possible, slash likely. And I 0:16:16.600 --> 0:16:18.320 take Jack at his word when he said, oh, this 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.360 Elon's solution looks like the only solution available. That he 0:16:22.480 --> 0:16:25.120 was supportive of Elan coming in and owning the company, 0:16:25.360 --> 0:16:28.160 probably because he felt like, you know, he no longer 0:16:28.240 --> 0:16:30.360 was going to be involved, so this was another way, 0:16:30.400 --> 0:16:32.040 another way out. I would just point out that's in 0:16:32.120 --> 0:16:36.480 direct distinction and in contradiction to what he said five 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:38.280 months ago when he said the company was in great 0:16:38.320 --> 0:16:40.960 hands and he had no concerns about stepping away. What 0:16:41.040 --> 0:16:43.120 have you heard from current Twitter employees? What's it like 0:16:43.240 --> 0:16:46.160 working at Twitter right now? You know, I don't know. 0:16:46.200 --> 0:16:48.200 I don't want to speak for for current employees. I 0:16:48.240 --> 0:16:51.520 will say for former employees, it's been and you know, 0:16:51.560 --> 0:16:53.360 those of us who are there from the you know, 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:57.080 sort of early times. Uh, it's it's just depressing. It's 0:16:57.200 --> 0:17:01.560 it's sad to see this thing that was be be 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.359 looked after by someone who hasn't really thought through the issues, 0:17:04.400 --> 0:17:08.199 hasn't really kind of taken care uh to to do 0:17:08.240 --> 0:17:11.439 the research on on what on what product is they 0:17:11.480 --> 0:17:13.280 need to build. He's, you know, in addition to the 0:17:13.280 --> 0:17:16.879 free speech questions, he's also just not articulating a coherent 0:17:17.000 --> 0:17:19.240 product vision of what he wants to do with the 0:17:19.280 --> 0:17:21.320 product or why it was interested in buying it. And 0:17:21.359 --> 0:17:24.720 so that's just it's a disappointing end uh endpoint to 0:17:24.840 --> 0:17:28.240 this part of the Twitter journey. Well, we will see 0:17:28.280 --> 0:17:31.280 if that comes with time. Jason Goldman, part of the 0:17:31.280 --> 0:17:34.040 founding team at Twitter, Thank you for bringing your voice 0:17:34.400 --> 0:17:38.520 to this conversation. Appreciated. Robin Hood is in need of 0:17:38.560 --> 0:17:41.760 its own Robin Hood style rescue. Less than a year 0:17:41.800 --> 0:17:44.159 after going public, the online brokerage is racked up more 0:17:44.200 --> 0:17:47.880 than two billion dollars of losses and it's now dismissing 0:17:48.080 --> 0:17:51.440 nine percent of its workforce. Thirty people work there now. 0:17:51.800 --> 0:17:54.000 Robin had said that after a period of hyper growth 0:17:54.000 --> 0:17:59.000 in early it ended up hiring too many people, leading 0:17:59.000 --> 0:18:04.800 to duplicate rules and quote more layers and complexity than optimal. 0:18:06.440 --> 0:18:09.600 SpaceX has launched four astronauts to the International Space Station. 0:18:09.640 --> 0:18:12.160 This is the first NASA crew making up of an 0:18:12.160 --> 0:18:15.000 equal number of men and women, including the first black 0:18:15.040 --> 0:18:17.440 woman to live and work in space for a long 0:18:17.560 --> 0:18:20.560 term mission, Jessica Watkins. They'll arrive at the space station 0:18:20.680 --> 0:18:24.680 sixteen hours after launch. And coming up, we are joined 0:18:24.720 --> 0:18:26.320 by and which it Ski the co founder and CEO 0:18:26.359 --> 0:18:28.640 of twenty three and Me and their big bet on 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:31.760 telehealth plus the latest on metas results in the stock 0:18:31.880 --> 0:18:35.679 spiking after plunging last time around. That is next. This 0:18:35.800 --> 0:18:49.280 is Bloomberg. Welcome back to Bloomberg Technology and Emily Chinese, 0:18:49.280 --> 0:18:53.000 San Francisco. Well, the pandemic continues to change how we 0:18:53.119 --> 0:18:56.239 view certain businesses in the world of healthcare. Definitely one 0:18:56.240 --> 0:18:59.240 of them. Twenty three, the genetic testing company, is diving 0:18:59.240 --> 0:19:02.600 into tele metas and to help customers better understand their 0:19:02.640 --> 0:19:05.199 genetic reports. Joining me now is and Whichetsky is the 0:19:05.240 --> 0:19:07.720 CEO and co founder of twenty three and Me and 0:19:07.760 --> 0:19:10.000 always good to have you here on the show. So 0:19:10.119 --> 0:19:14.000 you're taking here first steps towards giving twenty three customers 0:19:14.080 --> 0:19:19.120 access to telehealth to help them understand, um, what all 0:19:19.160 --> 0:19:21.880 of this data you're giving back to them actually means. 0:19:21.920 --> 0:19:24.760 How exactly does it work well. I think one of 0:19:24.800 --> 0:19:27.760 the most interesting things I've learned of the last sixteen 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:31.760 years is that everyone sees a world where you're going 0:19:31.840 --> 0:19:33.919 to get your genetic information and it's going to be 0:19:34.000 --> 0:19:37.720 part of your everyday primary care experience. But the reality 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:41.560 is most physicians are not trained. UM it's not accessible, 0:19:41.760 --> 0:19:44.600 it's not part of the medical system. And we've learned 0:19:44.600 --> 0:19:47.200 we have over twelve million customers. We've learned over time 0:19:47.280 --> 0:19:49.920 that our customers are getting this information and they take 0:19:49.920 --> 0:19:53.639 it to their primary care physicians, and they largely don't 0:19:53.680 --> 0:19:56.680 know what to do with that information. And so there's 0:19:56.680 --> 0:19:59.240 this opportunity for twenty three and me to really solve 0:19:59.320 --> 0:20:04.040 that problem and actually become that consult to other primary 0:20:04.040 --> 0:20:07.720 care physicians or other specialists by really providing and delivering 0:20:07.760 --> 0:20:11.560 genomic medicine and how our customers and how everyone else 0:20:11.600 --> 0:20:14.040 out there can learn about their DNA and say I'm 0:20:14.040 --> 0:20:17.439 going to take proactive preventative steps and have whether that 0:20:17.520 --> 0:20:21.080 changes some of the guidelines like um, getting a colonoscopy, 0:20:21.200 --> 0:20:23.200 or whether or not that's going to actually influence how 0:20:23.200 --> 0:20:26.960 they're wearing sunglasses, or how they are eating and exercising, 0:20:27.760 --> 0:20:31.080 how significant will telehealth be to twenty three and these 0:20:31.280 --> 0:20:34.000 future business like, do you see this being a significant 0:20:34.080 --> 0:20:38.040 driver of the vision and revenue. I think that preventative 0:20:38.119 --> 0:20:41.800 care is absolutely something people do every day. Your health 0:20:41.880 --> 0:20:44.399 is a sum of what your actions are every single day. 0:20:44.560 --> 0:20:47.600 And I think that people get genetic information, You get 0:20:47.640 --> 0:20:50.200 any kind of health information, and you have to spread 0:20:50.240 --> 0:20:53.239 it out throughout your life. You have to continuously implement it. 0:20:53.640 --> 0:20:56.000 And so what I find and part of the twenty 0:20:56.040 --> 0:20:58.880 three plus product that we that we launched about roughly 0:20:58.920 --> 0:21:02.120 over a year ago was about additional content, and we've 0:21:02.160 --> 0:21:04.560 always said the next step for us is actually saying 0:21:04.800 --> 0:21:07.560