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Speaker 1: Cool Zone Media, Hello, and welcome to Cool People Did

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Speaker 1: Cool Stuff, your weekly reminder that people fight against the

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Speaker 1: bad things sometimes. I'm your host, murder Kiljoy. Am, I

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Speaker 1: guess this week is Matt Leeb.

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Speaker 2: I'mt leb Hi. I'm sorry. I'm just finishing a quick snack.

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Speaker 2: I had some Trader Joe's hummus, and uh, you know,

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Speaker 2: in celebration of US talking about Palestine, I had some

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Speaker 2: traditional Trader Joe's Mediterranean style hummus.

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Speaker 1: I am, you're not a tomato joke or anything like that.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, Israel invented the cherry tomato and Trader

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Speaker 2: Joe's Mediterranean style hummus.

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Speaker 1: Well, Trader Joe's invented hummus.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right. They were the first ones to do it. Yes,

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Speaker 2: very delicious. People talk a lot of shit on Trader Joe's.

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Speaker 2: You know, well, I guess I don't know if people

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Speaker 2: talk shit about Trader Joe's. I feel like someone would.

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Speaker 1: It's the cheap food that still tastes good.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's wonderful.

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Speaker 3: Yeah, ignore all those recalls, Yeah, exactly, it's fine.

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Speaker 2: The recalls are just you know what that is, that's

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Speaker 2: just haters hating.

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Speaker 1: See I used to get excited about the recalls because

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Speaker 1: I lived off of dumpster food, and so whenever there

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Speaker 1: was a recall, I was like. I'd always be like,

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Speaker 1: why are there so why is there so much lettuce

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Speaker 1: in the trash this week? And you're like, oh, because

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Speaker 1: there's a recall because there's abreak kill whatever put that

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Speaker 1: had irregular lettuce in my mouth. Yeah, That's what I

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Speaker 1: did and I survived. So therefore it is a good

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Speaker 1: and healthy idea to eat only trash for you out

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Speaker 1: the trash. Yeah, Well to do the rest of the

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Speaker 1: introductions that I didn't do last time. Our producer is

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Speaker 1: Sophie Lichtermann Hy Sophie. Our editor is Daniel Hi Daniel

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Speaker 1: dan All. Our theme music was written for us by Unwoman.

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Speaker 1: This is part two and a two parter about early

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Speaker 1: Palestinian resistance, Palestinian resistance to pre Israel, Palestinian resistance to

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Speaker 1: the Ottoman Empire, which we talked about last time, and

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Speaker 1: did the British Mandate and the Zionist Project, which is

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Speaker 1: what we were talking about this time. Hell yeah, and

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Speaker 1: where we last left. The Palestinian resistance had a pretty

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Speaker 1: lackluster nineteen twenties. The powers that be within Palestine were like, oh,

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Speaker 1: what if we asked the British nicely, that works for people, right,

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Speaker 1: And everyone was like, I don't think it works, but

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Speaker 1: we're also really worn down and poor, so we don't

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Speaker 1: have any better ideas until nineteen twenty nine when you

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Speaker 1: run into the single event. I have had the hardest

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Speaker 1: time finding what feels like objective sources about Oh. Ever,

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Speaker 1: in my research for this show, yeah you heard the

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Speaker 1: Eid Albarock uprising.

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Speaker 2: You know, I feel like I probably heard it in

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Speaker 2: an audio book once, fair enough, but I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I don't think I know much about it.

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Speaker 1: So by some sources you could say some mean old

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Speaker 1: Muslims were mad that Jews were praying, so they tried

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Speaker 1: to program them and then the Jews fought back with

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Speaker 1: the help of the British.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and that sounds like the correct source. Go on.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, So there's this holy place in Jerusalem called Albarock,

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Speaker 1: which is with the Jews called the Western Wall, and

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Speaker 1: it was traditionally is the Muslim holy place that Jews

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Speaker 1: were specifically allowed to pray at. Like historically, there's a

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Speaker 1: long standing tradition Jews are allowed to come prey here,

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Speaker 1: but it is a Muslim thing set up into this

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Speaker 1: like Muslim infrastructure, so you can't set up any furniture here,

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Speaker 1: can't make this place your place. So the Zionist Jews

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Speaker 1: started setting up furniture and this is outside and they're

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Speaker 1: setting it up and maybe it's temporary, and a lot

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Speaker 1: of the Muslims are like, I think you're trying to

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Speaker 1: occupy the place, and so they were like, could you

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Speaker 1: please take it down? And they went to the British

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Speaker 1: and they were like, hey, help us sort this out.

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Speaker 1: And the British took ten months to rule on this,

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Speaker 1: and finally they were like, yeah, sorry Zionists, we hate

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Speaker 1: saying anything bad about you, but this really is a

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Speaker 1: Muslim place of prayer. You probably shouldn't set up permanent

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Speaker 1: thing or like, you know, put your stuff here. You

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Speaker 1: got to take your stuff down. But the British didn't

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Speaker 1: enforce their own ruling. Zionist Jews held a big protest

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Speaker 1: about it. Muslim folks did two and then things got

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Speaker 1: really violent and it wasn't really about the specific prayer wall,

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Speaker 1: not for either side. As best as I can tell,

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Speaker 1: this was an explosion of anger at the Zionist project

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Speaker 1: that was displacing Arabs across the country, and it was

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Speaker 1: a reflection of the growing awareness that the Zionist plan

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Speaker 1: was to conquer the entire country, and it was that

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Speaker 1: was the Zionist plan. It's still the Zionist plan.

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Speaker 2: What. Yeah, I don't know where you're getting your information,

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Speaker 2: but I was from the Zionists. Yeah, I was told specifically.

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Speaker 2: I don't know what Zionists you're reading, but the all

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Speaker 2: Desionists I know say that the whole point of the

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Speaker 2: Zionist's plan is peace. So oh, okay, sounds so yeah,

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Speaker 2: sounds like you're wrong and lying.

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Speaker 1: However, I understand why you can perceive what happened as

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Speaker 1: a program because there was a lot of violence directed

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Speaker 1: at the Zionist settlers and killed a fuck ton of people.

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Speaker 1: And so for the Zionist Jews, this uprising was a

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Speaker 1: little bit less about the prayer and more about self

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Speaker 1: defense because many of them are being killed. It's about

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Speaker 1: a week long. About one hundred and thirty three Jews

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Speaker 1: were killed during the uprising, while one hundred and sixteen

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Speaker 1: Arabs were killed. The Jews were mostly killed by Arab

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Speaker 1: groups and the latter were mostly killed by British security

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Speaker 1: forces or depending on what I'm reading, a lot of

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Speaker 1: the Arabs were killed by Jewish settlers, and sometimes I

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Speaker 1: think the sources that claim that are actually the Zionis sources,

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Speaker 1: because I think it's about trying to be like, hey,

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Speaker 1: we fought back successfully, right, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, it's hard to tell. It's hard to tell. It

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Speaker 2: depends who you're reading, it depends who the intended audience is.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, after a week long uprising, the British arrested

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Speaker 1: and punished mostly Palestinians. Everything I've read about this feels biased,

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Speaker 1: is fuck in one direction to the other. And I

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Speaker 1: have not personally found a source about this particular thing

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Speaker 1: that feels trustworthy, which is not to say the historians

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Speaker 1: kind of biases. I absolutely biases right, and still write

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Speaker 1: well about a subject. But this particular event wasn't covered

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Speaker 1: in detail by either of the Palestinian storians I read

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Speaker 1: in depth. So I just read a fuck ton of

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Speaker 1: different essays because all of the books were like because

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Speaker 1: actually what's interesting for Palestinian resistance point of view is

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Speaker 1: actually what comes in the wake of this, or people

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Speaker 1: didn't want to talk about that part because it sounds

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Speaker 1: bad when you run around and kill a bunch of

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Speaker 1: armed civilians. Yes, fucking no.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: The aftermath I have a better handle on because I

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Speaker 1: found better writing on it. The uprising really set the

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Speaker 1: Palestinians to the task of figuring out how the fuck

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Speaker 1: to get free, and a lot of people developed a

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Speaker 1: lot of different ideas about how to do that, and

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Speaker 1: they started doing it and working towards it. Not the

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Speaker 1: most important, but I'm going to start with it because

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Speaker 1: they have the coolest names, and they're weird and violent

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Speaker 1: and I don't know whatever the minority position and how

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Speaker 1: to do this, but an important one was a violence

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Speaker 1: that was a way in which people tried to figure

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Speaker 1: out how to get free. You call violent direct action

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Speaker 1: or terrorism. Yeah, And first you have the Green Hand gang.

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Speaker 2: Cool name is a.

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Speaker 1: Fucking good name for a gang.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And they basically just ambushed there's like, I think maybe

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Speaker 1: twenty or thirty of them or something, and they just

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Speaker 1: ambushed settlers and cops and killed them starting in nineteen

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Speaker 1: twenty nine.

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Speaker 2: Damn, that's great. It did not.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they were just like, all right, we're just doing it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I canna just kill some people.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, And it's interesting because it's like I don't want

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Speaker 1: to too hard go into the morality of this, but

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Speaker 1: there is a difference between that guy just stole my house.

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Speaker 1: I can see him. That is my house. I was

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Speaker 1: living there two weeks ago. Like, I mean, there is

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Speaker 1: like interesting questions around, like at what point is it like, well,

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Speaker 1: now I grew up in this house, and my grandfather

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Speaker 1: grew up in this house, but my grandfather stole from

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Speaker 1: your grandfather. You know, those those are interesting questions that

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Speaker 1: I am not in a position to answer since I

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Speaker 1: am a white person living in North America, and if

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Speaker 1: you back, I am absolutely culpable as a settler.

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Speaker 2: Yes, and I don't know. I don't fucking know. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's it is, you know, it's it's hard to know

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Speaker 2: whether or not. I mean, I don't know. On the

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Speaker 2: one hand, yes, of course, you know, there's the idea

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Speaker 2: of just because time passes does not mean that, you know, you're.

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Speaker 1: The land should go back to the indigenous people in

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Speaker 1: North America. No part of me thinks otherwise for that

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Speaker 1: kind of right, Yeah, whether or not like kill me

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Speaker 1: to take.

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Speaker 2: Right exactly, whether or not the violent resistance of the

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Speaker 2: you know, ancestors of ancestors of ancestors of people, you know,

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Speaker 2: And to me, this is, you know, one of those

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Speaker 2: like indigenous struggles that I see as like, there's no

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Speaker 2: reason to not look at it from a perspective of

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Speaker 2: just being an indigenous struggle and not this like theoretical,

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Speaker 2: you know, dissertation on what exactly makes someone indigenous. And

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Speaker 2: it's like, I don't know if I if I can

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Speaker 2: trace with my own eyes the settler colonial nature of

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Speaker 2: this particular thing. And someone is literally holding the key

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Speaker 2: to the house that they no longer live in, It's like, well,

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Speaker 2: that's clear, at very least it's clear. I'm not totally

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Speaker 2: you know, you know, advocating or supporting the you know,

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Speaker 2: violence that necessarily, you know, will befall people when there

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Speaker 2: is an uprising, But I am saying that I don't

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Speaker 2: know how you could look at it as any other

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Speaker 2: thing than that totally.

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Speaker 1: And so by nineteen thirty, the Green Hand gang goes down,

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Speaker 1: they're all dead or in jail. But what do you

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Speaker 1: do when the green Hand gang goes down? Well, I'm

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Speaker 1: glad you asked you start the black hand.

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Speaker 2: All right. We're doing a new hand, all right.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, just new hand, new Color. Yeah, New Day.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, do you like this?

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Speaker 1: Even cooler name but less original? Since a Serbian nationalist

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Speaker 1: group of the same names. You know, I was gonna

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Speaker 1: started World War One. I was going to say, I'm

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Speaker 1: pretty sure I heard of the Black Hand. I also

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Speaker 1: think I know the Black Hand from Godfather too, Okay,

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Speaker 1: And that was the that was the guy who used

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Speaker 1: to run Vito.

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Speaker 2: Corleoni's neighborhood before he uh, before Vito Corleoni killed him

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Speaker 2: in that hallway with that gun. It was like, who's that?

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Speaker 2: And it's like, that's, you know, the Dawn the Black Hand.

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Speaker 2: So there's a lot of different black Hands out there,

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Speaker 2: but yeah, you know this one's cool. If you're the

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Speaker 2: Black Hand, you probably kill people. I mean what else?

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Speaker 2: I mean it's a cool ass name for a gang.

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Speaker 2: Is that you know there's a black Hand? Here's my

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Speaker 2: app fuck off?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I run a library.

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Speaker 2: I mean that's cool. Yeah. Better Yeah, killing people library,

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Speaker 2: library of weapons you used to do murder?

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Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly, that should be available.

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Speaker 2: So yeah, we got to find one of those.

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Speaker 3: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: And so this black Hand is it isn't a different

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Speaker 1: language and whatever. You can't own a name as cool

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Speaker 1: as a black Hand.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah.

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Speaker 1: I had trouble finding detailed sources on either of the

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Speaker 1: Colored Hand crews in English, and so I might return

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Speaker 1: to these folks more as I learned more about them.

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Speaker 1: But I know a little bit more about the Black Hand. Basically,

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Speaker 1: there was this guy named iz al Din al kasm

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Speaker 1: and he'd cut his teeth supporting Libyan resistance to the Italians,

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Speaker 1: then fought the French occupation in Syria, and then he

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Speaker 1: went over to Palestine to help fight the British.

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Speaker 2: Okay, so he's just the coolest motherfucker who ever existed.

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Speaker 1: Go on, Yeah, and he's a tinerant preacher, and he's

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Speaker 1: just going around the country as a muzzllem my tinerant preacher,

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Speaker 1: and he's saying, we should probably use violence to resist

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Speaker 1: our entire country being stolen from under our feet. Yeah, hell, yeah,

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Speaker 1: started a bunch of groups with which to do that.

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Speaker 1: The most famous, or at least the one that people

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Speaker 1: had the coolest names got into the books I was

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Speaker 1: reading was the Black Hand, which was formed in nineteen

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Speaker 1: thirty or nineteen thirty five, who fucking knows.

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Speaker 2: I read them nineteen thirty three.

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Speaker 1: Have yeah, April nineteen thirty three.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, that's right.

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Speaker 1: And they had some internal divisions right away within the

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Speaker 1: Black Hand or within these larger collections of groups that

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Speaker 1: are trying to do this violent resistance. Some folks are like,

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Speaker 1: all right, well, let's just immediately attack settlers, like kind

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Speaker 1: of a green Hand kind of attitude, you know, and

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Speaker 1: others are like, no, we should get ready first and

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Speaker 1: have a coordinated action and the settlement of Palestine.

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Speaker 2: Here we go. Meetings.

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Speaker 1: I know, there's the pro meeting and the pro immediate

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Speaker 1: murder plans. Yeah, valid points. Yeah, both obviously have their

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Speaker 1: pros and cons. But yeah, meetings, I don't know.

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Speaker 2: I think I'd rather just get just go straight to

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Speaker 2: the murder than have another processing session. Kil I'm kidding.

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Speaker 1: By nineteen thirty five, which is either their fifth year

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Speaker 1: or their very beginning, who knows, they had between two

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Speaker 1: hundred and eight hundred fighters, and they were offering military

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Speaker 1: trainings for peasants as they went around, and they would

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Speaker 1: just raid Zionus settlements and kill people.

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Speaker 2: In bombshit Oh shit crazy.

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Speaker 1: Alcasm himself died in a gun battle with British police

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Speaker 1: after being surrounded in a cave in nineteen thirty five. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: His funeral was attended by five thousand people, and so

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Speaker 1: the British soldiers shot into the crowd at the funeral.

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Speaker 2: Oh this is al Cassom. This is oh shit, Oh.

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Speaker 1: Okay, okay, you know more about this guy?

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Speaker 2: No, I know that this is a huge figure within

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Speaker 2: the Palestinian resistance, like legend and narrative. Yeah, like this

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Speaker 2: is you know, like, yeah, this is the fucking the

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Speaker 2: patron saint of Palestinian resistance.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, there's got to be a book in English about him,

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Speaker 1: and I just haven't found it yet.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean the book in English about it is Wikipedia,

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Speaker 2: as far as I know.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I got the like through the like. I've read

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Speaker 1: like maybe like six articles about him, but it's that

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Speaker 1: thing where one of the articles will have slightly more information,

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Speaker 1: but then five of the other articles have different information.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, but anyway, his death is going to help

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Speaker 1: spark the uprising of nineteen thirty six, and yeah, a

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Speaker 1: lot of people basically are specifically following in his footsteps

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Speaker 1: as a specific thing. Yeah, you absolutely live on as

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Speaker 1: a martyr, but we're not yet. It's nineteen thirty six.

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Speaker 1: I want to talk about some of the other ways

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Speaker 1: that Palestinians resisted. It seems like there was three prongs

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Speaker 1: of it then and probably still And I mean these

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Speaker 1: are kind of just the three ways he resists shit.

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Speaker 2: Right.

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Speaker 1: There was armed resistance largely by secretive groups. There was

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Speaker 1: popular struggle organized from the bottom up that used a

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Speaker 1: comparatively nonviolent strategy but was not pacifist. And that's the

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Speaker 1: kind of thing that you see reflected a lot and like,

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Speaker 1: especially like the First Antifada and stuff like that. Right,

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Speaker 1: And then they're legalistic approaches that relied on pressuring both

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Speaker 1: the power structures like the British government, as well as

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Speaker 1: raising popular awareness around the world. It probably takes all

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Speaker 1: three of these to get anything done. And my personal

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Speaker 1: bias tends to be towards the popular struggle to kind

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Speaker 1: of thing. But the lines between these approaches are often blurred,

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Speaker 1: which is good. People should do it as ethical and

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Speaker 1: strategic in any given situation, rather than assuming that one

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Speaker 1: is the right one always.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: In November nineteen twenty nine, there was an Arab village

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Speaker 1: conference in Jaffa offering ideas about how to avoid the

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Speaker 1: bankruptcy of farmers through agricultural credit unions and shit like that.

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Speaker 1: Student groups met and started organizing. A national fund was

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Speaker 1: set up to help farmers who lost their land to settlements.

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Speaker 1: But there's like this heartbreaking thing. I read a lot

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Speaker 1: of ins and outs about this national fund and how

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Speaker 1: hard they work, traveling across the country'd raise all this money,

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Speaker 1: and by the end they raised like, you know, almost

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Speaker 1: a million dollars after like a year hard work or whatever.

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Speaker 1: And then it's like and then some South African heiress

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Speaker 1: gave the Jewish Zionist Fund four million dollars. Yeah, the

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Speaker 1: day that they announced that they had gotten a million

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Speaker 1: dollars at the right one.

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Speaker 2: Yes, every every time, and there's god fucking damn it,

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Speaker 2: all right, let's have another bake sale. Yeah, but no

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Speaker 2: matter how many bake sales you do. And they were,

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Speaker 2: you know, in terms of they were doing impressive fundraising

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Speaker 2: for what they could get. But yeah, not not nearly

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Speaker 2: as good as the one South African heiress who were

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Speaker 2: random British patron who's just like going to give them

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Speaker 2: five times the amount of money.

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Speaker 1: Totally. But like fucking like the resistance during this period,

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Speaker 1: and I mean during all of everything, but during this

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Speaker 1: period it was just so stark what they were fighting

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Speaker 1: against like that we're going to fight the British Empire,

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Speaker 1: you know, as this like starving barely existent, like because

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Speaker 1: we just got free from the Ottoman's place, you know.

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Speaker 1: And yeah, that they're able to do all of this

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Speaker 1: level of organizing is amazing. Like everything I read is like,

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Speaker 1: oh and this thing we could have done better, we

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Speaker 1: could have done this better or whatever. But like they

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Speaker 1: did amazing shit with what they had. In this period

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Speaker 1: past nineteen twenty nine, women started stepping up in a

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Speaker 1: major way. Take the story of Mattiomogenum, who was a

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Speaker 1: Palestinian Christian woman who was born in Lebanon in eighteen

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Speaker 1: ninety nine. Her family moved to New York City when

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Speaker 1: she was a kid, and then her and her husband

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Speaker 1: moved back to Palestine in the nineteen twenties, and so

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Speaker 1: she does a lot of the English language work that

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Speaker 1: is going to happen during this time period to try

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Speaker 1: and get the word out and things like that. She

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Speaker 1: worked with another woman, a Muslim Palestinian woman named Terab

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Speaker 1: Abd al Hadi, to form the first Palestinian Arab Women's

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Speaker 1: Congress in nineteen twenty nine. And this group splints off

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Speaker 1: into like just a ton of different women's organizings groups,

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Speaker 1: and I would actually have to go back and do

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Speaker 1: like a two parter or just on them, which I

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Speaker 1: might eat because they're really interesting in order to get

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Speaker 1: into all the ins and outs of all the groups

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Speaker 1: they form. But they're related to each other, almost all

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Speaker 1: the women's organizing that's happening at this time. And they two,

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Speaker 1: the two of these women would do things like have

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Speaker 1: They'd be like, oh, a Christian woman should present to

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Speaker 1: the Muslim group, and a Muslim woman present to the

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Speaker 1: Christian group, and it ruled. They kept doing this like

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Speaker 1: this was still a part of all of the organizing.

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Speaker 1: Soon more than two hundred Palestinian women were part of

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Speaker 1: the Palestinian Arab Women's Congress, supporting the Palestinian National Congress

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Speaker 1: and its demands to end the Balfour Declaration and Jewish

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Speaker 1: immigration and create an actually democratic government and things like that.

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Speaker 1: And they did all kinds of organizing. They brought grievances

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Speaker 1: to the British government. They organized letter writing campaigns, but

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Speaker 1: they organized letter writing campaigns to foreign press, which like

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Speaker 1: actually does something. Sometimes letter writing campaigns work, but like,

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Speaker 1: let's be real, usually not right.

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Speaker 2: I mean, if you know, in my dad's head, nothing

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Speaker 2: works better than writing a letter. My dad has written

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Speaker 2: so many letters or just anything, not just like you know,

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Speaker 2: serious stuff like you know, getting you know, the prescription

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Speaker 2: drug medication lower you know, in price, but like trying

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Speaker 2: to get a show uncanceled on television. He's a big

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Speaker 2: believer in the you know, write a letter.

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Speaker 1: Buffy the Vampire Slayer didn't it?

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Speaker 2: Did it? Oh? I didn't know that? Good for Buffy.

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Speaker 1: I have this, I have this vague memory from the

379
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Speaker 1: nineties of Buffy pe canceled after.

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Speaker 2: One campaign to get Buffy.

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Speaker 1: Back, something like that. I don't know. If you're a

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Speaker 1: big Buffy fan and I'm wrong, don't tell me. Yeah,

383
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Speaker 1: can we tell in this world in which that happened,

384
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Speaker 1: I would have that exactly. And so they kind of

385
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Speaker 1: create the first Foreign Press Office for Palestine because Palestine

386
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Speaker 1: was distinctly lacking in state apparatus, because the Paris state

387
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Speaker 1: that existed from the British was controlled by the Zionists

388
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Speaker 1: already at this point. The women also organized a demonstrations,

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Speaker 1: like at one point, one hundred and twenty cars of

390
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Speaker 1: women drove around Jerusalem, stopping at all the foreign consulates

391
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Speaker 1: to hand out leaflets despite being told in no uncertain

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Speaker 1: terms that they were not allowed to do this, and

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Speaker 1: they were like, yeah, we're gonna We're gonna do it

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Speaker 1: anyway though, We're.

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Speaker 2: Still gonna do it. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: Mattel was basically in charge of the English language work

397
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Speaker 1: of the Women's Congress, writing telegrams to the Queen of

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Speaker 1: England and shit like that. The Women's Congress also developed

399
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Speaker 1: silent protests as a tactic, one that carries on to

400
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Speaker 1: this day to the group Women in Black. There's not

401
00:21:31,760 --> 00:21:34,120
Speaker 1: necessarily a direct lineage here, but it's like coming from

402
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Speaker 1: the well around the same issues, just with sixty years break.

403
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Speaker 3: You know.

404
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Speaker 1: They also started a school, They formed prisoner support groups,

405
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Speaker 1: raising funds so that the families of incarcerated activists wouldn't starve,

406
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Speaker 1: and they got at least three political prisoners freed from

407
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Speaker 1: the British authorities through public pressure campaigns that might have

408
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Speaker 1: been letter writing.

409
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Speaker 2: Yeah, possibly.

410
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Speaker 1: They were cool as shit. They were all so actively feminist.

411
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Speaker 1: I spent a while in this rabbit hole this week, right,

412
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Speaker 1: and there was you know, someone like social media posts

413
00:22:09,040 --> 00:22:12,080
Speaker 1: about some of the more interesting radical women fighting in

414
00:22:12,119 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 1: Palestine during this time, and then you'll have this like

415
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Speaker 1: pro patriarchal, like Muslim man being like, stop calling these

416
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Speaker 1: women feminists. You're just bringing your Western values, and then

417
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,720
Speaker 1: all these like Muslim women or like shut the fuck

418
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Speaker 1: up what he was talking about, you know, dude. And

419
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Speaker 1: so I like, I went into this research being like, oh,

420
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Speaker 1: I should be real careful about this. They a lot

421
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Speaker 1: of their splinter groups had names like feminist group and

422
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Speaker 1: things like that.

423
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Speaker 2: So there we go.

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Speaker 1: And I don't know whether the Women's Congress itself or

425
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Speaker 1: at least some of these splinter groups, including a lot

426
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Speaker 1: of these founders that I'm talking about, protested the mandatory

427
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Speaker 1: wearing of veils. And it's worth pointing out because they're

428
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Speaker 1: often flattened as like women's auxiliary of a men's movement

429
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Speaker 1: and as if are not concerned with the rights of

430
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Speaker 1: women in their society, and that is not the case.

431
00:23:06,400 --> 00:23:09,720
Speaker 1: Mattel wrote books about women's liberation in Palestine, saying that

432
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Speaker 1: a local Palestinian government would be essential for justice for women.

433
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Speaker 1: She herself survived the Knakba, the ethnic cleansing of Palestine's

434
00:23:17,800 --> 00:23:21,640
Speaker 1: gonna happen in nineteen forty eight. Her story drops away

435
00:23:21,680 --> 00:23:24,240
Speaker 1: after that mostly, but we know she lived a fairly

436
00:23:24,320 --> 00:23:26,200
Speaker 1: long time. She moved to the US in nineteen eighty

437
00:23:26,240 --> 00:23:30,000
Speaker 1: and she died in Virginia in nineteen ninety two. One

438
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,560
Speaker 1: of the other groups that seemed to grow out of

439
00:23:31,560 --> 00:23:34,760
Speaker 1: the Women's Congress has a name that's usually translated to

440
00:23:35,160 --> 00:23:38,920
Speaker 1: the Chrysanthemum Flowers. And this is the like, this is

441
00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,720
Speaker 1: what the Instagram post was about.

442
00:23:41,160 --> 00:23:41,760
Speaker 2: This is the like.

443
00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:46,320
Speaker 1: Instagram post worthy group. They rule, don't get me wrong,

444
00:23:46,400 --> 00:23:48,600
Speaker 1: And I want to find a book about them in English.

445
00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: I found so many contradictory sources about this. Nothing ever

446
00:23:56,760 --> 00:24:02,480
Speaker 1: more contradictory than these things. Rat all o'khawan is the

447
00:24:02,560 --> 00:24:06,520
Speaker 1: Chrysanthemum Flowers. They were formed in nineteen thirty three or

448
00:24:06,600 --> 00:24:08,880
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty six or nineteen forty seven.

449
00:24:09,840 --> 00:24:14,800
Speaker 2: Oh man, okay, all right, no, seven thirty three. I

450
00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:16,480
Speaker 2: can't do that math, so let's call it.

451
00:24:16,640 --> 00:24:20,840
Speaker 1: I think. I think it was nineteen thirties, or maybe

452
00:24:20,840 --> 00:24:24,040
Speaker 1: in nineteen thirty six. That felt like the most legit source.

453
00:24:24,400 --> 00:24:27,000
Speaker 1: I think nineteen forty seven they became an armed group,

454
00:24:28,000 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: because at some point they become an armed group. And

455
00:24:30,200 --> 00:24:31,920
Speaker 1: this is why people like them. As if you find

456
00:24:31,960 --> 00:24:34,240
Speaker 1: pictures of women with guns and a revolution. People get

457
00:24:34,240 --> 00:24:36,520
Speaker 1: really excited about that, including my secture.

458
00:24:36,800 --> 00:24:39,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, it's dope ass picture. Yeah.

459
00:24:40,200 --> 00:24:43,239
Speaker 1: This group Chrysanthemum Flowers was formed by two sisters, one

460
00:24:43,320 --> 00:24:46,280
Speaker 1: of whom people tend to agree was named Moheba Kurshid.

461
00:24:46,920 --> 00:24:52,160
Speaker 1: The other might have been named Naraman Khurshid or Arabia Kurshid.

462
00:24:53,920 --> 00:24:55,960
Speaker 1: Lots of sources say each Yeah.

463
00:24:56,200 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 2: I mean when it comes to names, this is where

464
00:24:58,320 --> 00:25:02,000
Speaker 2: you know, you know Al Cassam, I you know know

465
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,320
Speaker 2: Al Casam, but it's the full name where I think

466
00:25:06,359 --> 00:25:08,040
Speaker 2: it was just the first two names. I was like,

467
00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:10,000
Speaker 2: I don't know this, and you know they.

468
00:25:10,320 --> 00:25:13,000
Speaker 1: It's my pronunciations.

469
00:25:13,240 --> 00:25:16,720
Speaker 2: It's the pronunciation, and it's also the nicknames. They all

470
00:25:16,800 --> 00:25:19,920
Speaker 2: have cool nicknames too that are sometimes in there. Sometimes

471
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:22,159
Speaker 2: it says also where they're from, long Home.

472
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: It's a good point.

473
00:25:23,119 --> 00:25:23,680
Speaker 2: What can you do?

474
00:25:24,000 --> 00:25:29,440
Speaker 1: And there's transliteration happening like it's actually I'm not sure,

475
00:25:29,480 --> 00:25:31,240
Speaker 1: aw woe is me about this? It's it's literally just

476
00:25:31,280 --> 00:25:32,879
Speaker 1: a problem of the format of the show where I

477
00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:35,320
Speaker 1: have a week to research everything because I'm like, well,

478
00:25:35,720 --> 00:25:38,400
Speaker 1: it makes it hard to to google them, right, because

479
00:25:38,400 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 1: they have a million different spellings of the transliterations and

480
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:45,680
Speaker 1: things like this. But you know, when language barrier is

481
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:47,879
Speaker 1: a major issue. One of the stories I read was

482
00:25:47,920 --> 00:25:52,840
Speaker 1: basically like understandably being like, yeah, if you read historians

483
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:56,520
Speaker 1: who don't speak Arabic, they won't get this right because

484
00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:59,080
Speaker 1: all of the sources are in Arabic. And I'm like, yes,

485
00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,080
Speaker 1: to be clear, I'm not a historian. I am a

486
00:26:02,240 --> 00:26:06,920
Speaker 1: pop historian who yes, tells stories. I am a storyteller, yes,

487
00:26:07,040 --> 00:26:11,159
Speaker 1: And I am a guest on podcasts. Yeah, so you

488
00:26:11,359 --> 00:26:12,520
Speaker 1: are expected to know all of it.

489
00:26:13,040 --> 00:26:16,880
Speaker 2: Never listen to me. Yeah, except if I'm on my podcast.

490
00:26:17,280 --> 00:26:18,760
Speaker 2: Listen to me then, But you.

491
00:26:18,760 --> 00:26:22,159
Speaker 1: Know, what is my job? I also failed at was

492
00:26:22,200 --> 00:26:25,000
Speaker 1: doing an ad break earlier. So now you're going to

493
00:26:25,040 --> 00:26:29,600
Speaker 1: get it now. Oh all right, just ad break right now.

494
00:26:40,000 --> 00:26:44,800
Speaker 1: And Rebecca so Mohiba was a school teacher in Jaffa,

495
00:26:45,119 --> 00:26:46,920
Speaker 1: a city to the south of Tel Aviv that is

496
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 1: now considered part of tel Aviv. And I suspect that

497
00:26:49,280 --> 00:26:51,280
Speaker 1: that's not a great thing that is considered part of

498
00:26:51,320 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 1: tel Aviv, because Jaffa seemed to be the kind of

499
00:26:54,240 --> 00:26:59,440
Speaker 1: cultural center of a lot of the Palestinian world. She

500
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:02,200
Speaker 1: advocates for women's rights in education. She was part of

501
00:27:02,240 --> 00:27:05,080
Speaker 1: the Arab Women's Association. Her and her sister formed the

502
00:27:05,119 --> 00:27:08,240
Speaker 1: Chrysanthemum Flowers, a word that I have spelled differently every

503
00:27:08,280 --> 00:27:10,280
Speaker 1: single time I've written into this script, even though it

504
00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:14,520
Speaker 1: is an English language word. And at some point they

505
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,639
Speaker 1: formed this and it started as a mutual aid organization.

506
00:27:17,920 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: It did allow the work of what we've been talking

507
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:22,080
Speaker 1: about earlier. It provided relief to families who were displaced

508
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: by settlement. It also provided funds for women to go

509
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,960
Speaker 1: to school and get education, which is fucking cool. Yeah,

510
00:27:28,680 --> 00:27:31,919
Speaker 1: they worked very actively for religious unity, as basically did

511
00:27:32,040 --> 00:27:36,440
Speaker 1: everyone during this time period, during this chunk of time,

512
00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,359
Speaker 1: that's what they're doing with this organization mutual aid. Later

513
00:27:40,600 --> 00:27:43,000
Speaker 1: they're going to move into arms struggle. They're going to

514
00:27:43,080 --> 00:27:45,359
Speaker 1: be the first all women military unit in the region.

515
00:27:46,320 --> 00:27:49,360
Speaker 1: They become an armed organization after Mohibo watched a young

516
00:27:49,440 --> 00:27:52,879
Speaker 1: boy assassinated in his mother's arms by a Zionist sniper.

517
00:27:53,680 --> 00:27:57,080
Speaker 1: That was probably the nineteen forty seventh thing. It might

518
00:27:57,119 --> 00:28:00,720
Speaker 1: have been nineteen forty eight when that happened. This unit

519
00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:02,960
Speaker 1: fought in the defense of Jaffa during the Nakba in

520
00:28:03,040 --> 00:28:06,200
Speaker 1: nineteen forty eight, and they're sick photos of them with

521
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:11,240
Speaker 1: like I think, old timy submachine guns. And I'm not

522
00:28:11,400 --> 00:28:14,639
Speaker 1: covering the Nakba, but just to follow Moheba's story, like

523
00:28:14,800 --> 00:28:17,320
Speaker 1: nearly all of one hundred and twenty thousand inhabitants of Jaffa,

524
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,080
Speaker 1: she was ethnically cleansed. Every account I've seen says that

525
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:23,280
Speaker 1: they were literally driven into the sea. You can find

526
00:28:23,280 --> 00:28:25,760
Speaker 1: photos of this. They had to flee on boats and

527
00:28:25,840 --> 00:28:27,040
Speaker 1: scores of people drowned.

528
00:28:27,680 --> 00:28:27,960
Speaker 2: Wow.

529
00:28:28,880 --> 00:28:34,040
Speaker 1: Yeah, you know that whole, Like every single thing that

530
00:28:34,160 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: the Zionists claim that Palestinians want to do to the Jews,

531
00:28:39,600 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: you just slowly find them having done.

532
00:28:42,320 --> 00:28:46,200
Speaker 2: Having done them during the Nakba and or recently. Yeah,

533
00:28:46,520 --> 00:28:51,000
Speaker 2: the whole. Every accusation is a confession thing. Yeah, that

534
00:28:51,080 --> 00:28:56,240
Speaker 2: bears out to be true so often that I'm like, guys,

535
00:28:56,480 --> 00:29:00,880
Speaker 2: just stop accusing, because I'm just going to research it.

536
00:29:01,240 --> 00:29:03,520
Speaker 2: I'm just gonna google it, and it's gonna be a

537
00:29:03,600 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: thing you did. Just stop accusing.

538
00:29:06,560 --> 00:29:09,080
Speaker 1: Where'd you get that idea driving into the sea? He

539
00:29:09,200 --> 00:29:10,200
Speaker 1: would do such a thing?

540
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:15,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, you wouldn't want Yeah, oh, here they are driving

541
00:29:15,920 --> 00:29:18,920
Speaker 2: people into the sea and not even It's funny because

542
00:29:18,960 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 2: like that that phrase. I've always I don't know, I've

543
00:29:22,640 --> 00:29:27,280
Speaker 2: always been like that's a hyperbole or it's metaphor you

544
00:29:27,320 --> 00:29:31,560
Speaker 2: know exactly. I didn't literally think you could drive people

545
00:29:32,280 --> 00:29:36,840
Speaker 2: into the sea. Yeah, that is a thing that happened, apparently.

546
00:29:37,680 --> 00:29:39,640
Speaker 2: I like all of the like really.

547
00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 1: Quick versions of the chrysanthemum flower and then like are

548
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:43,400
Speaker 1: like and then she was driven into the sea. But

549
00:29:43,480 --> 00:29:45,600
Speaker 1: then it is like literally and they always put that

550
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:47,920
Speaker 1: in there, and so I'm like, so then I spent

551
00:29:48,000 --> 00:29:50,040
Speaker 1: a while researching about that, even tho. I again, this

552
00:29:50,120 --> 00:29:52,440
Speaker 1: isn't a knock episode or so about the fall of

553
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,000
Speaker 1: Jaffa and scores of people drowned and they had to

554
00:29:56,040 --> 00:29:59,560
Speaker 1: flee on boats to other countries. And I think only

555
00:29:59,560 --> 00:30:02,520
Speaker 1: a few thousand people were able to stay in Jaffa

556
00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:06,320
Speaker 1: during this ethnic cleansing. Yea, And now it's part of

557
00:30:06,400 --> 00:30:07,560
Speaker 1: Tel Aviv fun.

558
00:30:08,280 --> 00:30:09,480
Speaker 2: Let's all go dancing.

559
00:30:10,800 --> 00:30:13,480
Speaker 1: But the chrysanthemum flowers are at as hell. I can't

560
00:30:13,480 --> 00:30:14,959
Speaker 1: wait to one day tell you out more about them.

561
00:30:15,320 --> 00:30:15,520
Speaker 2: Yeah.

562
00:30:16,880 --> 00:30:20,040
Speaker 1: Back to the early nineteen thirties, there were also a

563
00:30:20,080 --> 00:30:23,320
Speaker 1: whole bunch of various political parties cropping up which promoted

564
00:30:23,400 --> 00:30:26,720
Speaker 1: not cooperating with the British system, resistance desionism, and creating

565
00:30:26,760 --> 00:30:29,560
Speaker 1: a pan Arab alliance. So it's basically it's like the

566
00:30:29,680 --> 00:30:31,960
Speaker 1: thing that happened in the wake of this nineteen twenty

567
00:30:32,080 --> 00:30:36,880
Speaker 1: nine uprising is that Palestinian started really organizing and trying

568
00:30:37,200 --> 00:30:41,600
Speaker 1: all of the different strategies legal popular revolt and I

569
00:30:41,640 --> 00:30:44,880
Speaker 1: don't know what if a grenade solves my problems. Yeah,

570
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,120
Speaker 1: And in nineteen thirty three, two separate assemblies of over

571
00:30:49,160 --> 00:30:52,760
Speaker 1: five hundred people started developing plans for nonviolent, non cooperation

572
00:30:52,920 --> 00:30:57,480
Speaker 1: models for an independence movement. Nonviolent marchers were getting shot

573
00:30:57,560 --> 00:31:00,800
Speaker 1: dead by cops in the streets. Twelve people killed one

574
00:31:00,840 --> 00:31:04,200
Speaker 1: of these demonstrations on October thirteenth, nineteen thirty three, and

575
00:31:04,400 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: twenty four killed or sixteen killed and two hundred and

576
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:11,520
Speaker 1: four people were injured. On October twenty seventh. Some of

577
00:31:11,600 --> 00:31:15,800
Speaker 1: the protests against land sales were working, but only the

578
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:18,479
Speaker 1: protests that happened when they were aimed at Arabs who

579
00:31:18,520 --> 00:31:21,840
Speaker 1: were going to sell the land, not already sold land.

580
00:31:21,960 --> 00:31:25,880
Speaker 1: The Zionists were not fucking back and down. Yeah, there

581
00:31:26,000 --> 00:31:30,440
Speaker 1: is some reason to hope during this period the intentional

582
00:31:30,520 --> 00:31:35,200
Speaker 1: demographic takeover of Palestine by Zionists, it starts stalling out

583
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 1: because I don't know if you knew this, most Jews

584
00:31:40,800 --> 00:31:41,680
Speaker 1: not Zionists.

585
00:31:42,160 --> 00:31:45,720
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, as it was like a you know, it

586
00:31:45,880 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 2: was a thing you could be into if you had

587
00:31:50,880 --> 00:31:55,480
Speaker 2: a particularly adventurous spirit and you were like, hey, you

588
00:31:55,520 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 2: know what would be fun to uproots intentionally you moved

589
00:32:02,400 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: to a place in which we don't know the language

590
00:32:07,120 --> 00:32:10,720
Speaker 2: or the culture, and you know, it hates me and

591
00:32:10,800 --> 00:32:13,600
Speaker 2: everyone hates me. It's you know, and if you're a

592
00:32:13,680 --> 00:32:16,560
Speaker 2: European Jew around this time, you're like, you know what,

593
00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,240
Speaker 2: that actually doesn't seem like that bad of an idea

594
00:32:20,360 --> 00:32:24,320
Speaker 2: We'll go to based on how things are going here. Yeah.

595
00:32:24,920 --> 00:32:29,000
Speaker 2: But yeah, this idea of you know, again, of all

596
00:32:29,120 --> 00:32:33,960
Speaker 2: Jews being inherently Zionist is a complete falsehood.

597
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:34,520
Speaker 3: Yeah.

598
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: By nineteen twenty six, after years of these policies, seventeen

599
00:32:38,840 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: percent of the Palestinian population was Jewish. By nineteen thirty two,

600
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:47,800
Speaker 1: it had raised all the way to eighteen point five percent.

601
00:32:49,520 --> 00:32:53,400
Speaker 1: So it got that one point five bump. Yeah, until

602
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,080
Speaker 1: boy Who's going to stomp onto the world stage and

603
00:32:57,160 --> 00:33:02,479
Speaker 1: fuck everything up for everyone? In nineteen thirty three, something happened.

604
00:33:03,000 --> 00:33:09,000
Speaker 2: You know his name, Charlie Chaplin. That's right, he's gonna

605
00:33:09,160 --> 00:33:12,080
Speaker 2: waddle into the room with his bendel and his Joe

606
00:33:12,320 --> 00:33:16,480
Speaker 2: mustache and his mustache, and he's gonna fuck every ye.

607
00:33:17,000 --> 00:33:18,600
Speaker 1: Good politics and bad feminism.

608
00:33:19,120 --> 00:33:19,320
Speaker 2: Yeah.

609
00:33:22,040 --> 00:33:25,360
Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty three, something happened that History podcast never

610
00:33:25,440 --> 00:33:30,320
Speaker 1: talk about the rise of Nazi Germany since the UK

611
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:32,120
Speaker 1: and the US and all these other places were like,

612
00:33:32,400 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: well we don't want you something an awful lot of

613
00:33:35,200 --> 00:33:38,760
Speaker 1: Jewish people, for very understandable reasons, We're like, well, maybe

614
00:33:38,840 --> 00:33:40,680
Speaker 1: Zionism isn't so bad after all.

615
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, kind of the only option at the point

616
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:48,760
Speaker 2: at which people were moving there in droves.

617
00:33:49,200 --> 00:33:52,400
Speaker 1: Absolutely, the Nazis at this point were quite happy to

618
00:33:52,440 --> 00:33:54,960
Speaker 1: see the Jews go. At first they were like, well,

619
00:33:55,080 --> 00:33:58,000
Speaker 1: you can go, but you can't bring your stuff. We

620
00:33:58,520 --> 00:34:02,000
Speaker 1: want all your stuff. The Jews had been organizing a

621
00:34:02,040 --> 00:34:05,280
Speaker 1: massive boycott of Nazi goods since nineteen thirty three, and

622
00:34:05,400 --> 00:34:09,279
Speaker 1: so Zionists were like, hey, well we'll lift the boycott

623
00:34:10,080 --> 00:34:14,080
Speaker 1: if you let people leave Germany with their stuff. And

624
00:34:14,200 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 1: Nazi Germany was like, all right, y'all can leave Germany

625
00:34:16,719 --> 00:34:19,680
Speaker 1: and bring your money with you. I guess this agreement

626
00:34:19,960 --> 00:34:24,080
Speaker 1: was called the Transfer Agreement, and it was not uncontroversial

627
00:34:24,160 --> 00:34:29,440
Speaker 1: among Jews. Internationally, non and anti Zionist Jews were entirely

628
00:34:29,520 --> 00:34:33,640
Speaker 1: against it. Pretty uniformly. Most Zionists, or at least the

629
00:34:33,680 --> 00:34:37,040
Speaker 1: political entities, supported it because it supported the Zionist project

630
00:34:37,120 --> 00:34:41,080
Speaker 1: and because it helped get Jews safely to Palestine. Yea,

631
00:34:41,680 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 1: many Zionists were firmly against any cooperation with Nazi Germany.

632
00:34:44,960 --> 00:34:48,000
Speaker 1: I'm sure that the Jews in Germany were like, that's

633
00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:50,200
Speaker 1: easy for you to say over there in Palestine, a

634
00:34:50,400 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: US get the fuck out police. Yes, the agreement did

635
00:34:53,840 --> 00:34:57,359
Speaker 1: save about sixty thousand Jewish people from the Holocaust. Yeah,

636
00:34:58,440 --> 00:35:01,360
Speaker 1: but they did not go to an empty country, and

637
00:35:01,480 --> 00:35:03,960
Speaker 1: nor did they show up to assimilate into Palestinian culture.

638
00:35:04,880 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 1: They were showing up into a project that was designed

639
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:13,000
Speaker 1: to take over, as they've been clear about so. In cities,

640
00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: Palestinians led huge revolts against the destruction of the society

641
00:35:16,239 --> 00:35:19,680
Speaker 1: at the hands of Zionists. In the countryside, they turned

642
00:35:19,719 --> 00:35:21,759
Speaker 1: to friend of the pod things that other people will

643
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:24,759
Speaker 1: call you a bandit for doing, Like hey, guy, you

644
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:26,719
Speaker 1: can't have all this land sorry, I will shoot you

645
00:35:26,760 --> 00:35:27,800
Speaker 1: if you keep trying to take.

646
00:35:27,680 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 2: It from me. Yeah. Nice stuff.

647
00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:35,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, it just comes up a lot on this show. Yeah,

648
00:35:38,560 --> 00:35:39,919
Speaker 1: this show, we are pro banned.

649
00:35:40,320 --> 00:35:42,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, we're depending on how cool your hat is.

650
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:43,880
Speaker 1: I know, exactly.

651
00:35:44,680 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 2: Yeah.

652
00:35:46,680 --> 00:35:51,960
Speaker 1: In nineteen thirty five, Britain offered everyone a deal. It's like,

653
00:35:52,239 --> 00:35:53,800
Speaker 1: I think kind of the first I don't know, I

654
00:35:53,800 --> 00:35:55,319
Speaker 1: think it's called this, but it's like the first one

655
00:35:55,360 --> 00:36:00,480
Speaker 1: state solution attempt. They offer a legislative council of twenty

656
00:36:00,560 --> 00:36:04,600
Speaker 1: five members that would include five Brits, eight Muslims, seven Jews,

657
00:36:04,960 --> 00:36:08,480
Speaker 1: three Christians, and two people representing commercial interests.

658
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:13,000
Speaker 2: Fun. I love those commercial interest guys, just being like, uh,

659
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:15,680
Speaker 2: I also sell I sell the most oranges.

660
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: So I got to see I've run across this in

661
00:36:21,080 --> 00:36:23,239
Speaker 1: early twentieth century stuff where they were more mask off

662
00:36:23,360 --> 00:36:26,080
Speaker 1: all over the world about that, where they were like, well,

663
00:36:26,120 --> 00:36:28,840
Speaker 1: of course someone in the government has to just represent

664
00:36:28,920 --> 00:36:29,560
Speaker 1: the rich people.

665
00:36:29,920 --> 00:36:33,840
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, we need someone here to represent you know,

666
00:36:34,239 --> 00:36:38,600
Speaker 2: this group of people, this group of people, and this

667
00:36:38,760 --> 00:36:41,920
Speaker 2: guy's right to use slave labor to get sugar.

668
00:36:42,320 --> 00:36:47,279
Speaker 1: Yeah exactly. That is describing the early federal systems of

669
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:48,120
Speaker 1: many countries.

670
00:36:48,480 --> 00:36:53,880
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's always like, oh, okay, but who has the

671
00:36:53,920 --> 00:36:56,600
Speaker 2: most power here? Oh I think you know, I think

672
00:36:56,640 --> 00:36:56,800
Speaker 2: you know.

673
00:36:58,280 --> 00:37:00,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, And now, of course, you know, you just have

674
00:37:00,880 --> 00:37:04,759
Speaker 1: lobbyists that represent all these commercial interests instead of more

675
00:37:04,840 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: power than the electorate.

676
00:37:06,520 --> 00:37:07,840
Speaker 2: That's right, but.

677
00:37:08,400 --> 00:37:10,200
Speaker 1: Actually I think they still even have whatever. I'm not

678
00:37:10,280 --> 00:37:14,920
Speaker 1: a big government understander. And so they offer this solution.

679
00:37:16,080 --> 00:37:18,839
Speaker 1: The Arab High Council, which kind of represents a lot

680
00:37:18,880 --> 00:37:21,239
Speaker 1: of the you know, the elites or whatever it gets called,

681
00:37:22,280 --> 00:37:24,680
Speaker 1: was like, yeah, well we'll take it. It's not perfect,

682
00:37:24,719 --> 00:37:27,279
Speaker 1: but whatever, we'll take it. It seems better and what's

683
00:37:27,360 --> 00:37:31,080
Speaker 1: going on? And the Zionists were like, well, I know

684
00:37:31,160 --> 00:37:34,279
Speaker 1: that that would let us wield power that's vastly disproportioned

685
00:37:34,320 --> 00:37:37,319
Speaker 1: to our actual demographic numbers, but that doesn't give us

686
00:37:37,360 --> 00:37:42,560
Speaker 1: a majority or total control. So no, yeah, it is

687
00:37:42,600 --> 00:37:43,520
Speaker 1: a object fell through.

688
00:37:44,120 --> 00:37:48,440
Speaker 2: It is a crazy it is. Yeah, it's just it's

689
00:37:48,480 --> 00:37:51,640
Speaker 2: an absolutely nuts thing. When you're so confident in your

690
00:37:51,840 --> 00:37:55,759
Speaker 2: eventual demographic majority that's going to be pulled off through

691
00:37:56,080 --> 00:38:00,400
Speaker 2: some way, we'll see that. You're just like nope, we

692
00:38:00,560 --> 00:38:04,319
Speaker 2: are running this place or nothing. Yep.

693
00:38:05,200 --> 00:38:08,440
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's just like imagine how different because you know,

694
00:38:08,480 --> 00:38:10,360
Speaker 1: eventually the British proably would have still left. And like,

695
00:38:12,400 --> 00:38:13,919
Speaker 1: I mean, I don't know, I just like it's sad

696
00:38:13,960 --> 00:38:16,360
Speaker 1: when I think about like all of the different times

697
00:38:16,520 --> 00:38:20,239
Speaker 1: people tried to be like what if it's just not

698
00:38:20,360 --> 00:38:21,400
Speaker 1: an ethno state.

699
00:38:22,080 --> 00:38:25,279
Speaker 2: Right, yeah? Yeah, And like I think of that, it

700
00:38:25,800 --> 00:38:29,480
Speaker 2: speaks to, I mean the time period in which all

701
00:38:29,520 --> 00:38:31,960
Speaker 2: this was taking place, the time period in which you know,

702
00:38:32,120 --> 00:38:38,080
Speaker 2: modern in which Zionism was you know, created, and it

703
00:38:38,160 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 2: speaks to kind of like just culturally, you know, in

704
00:38:43,040 --> 00:38:47,080
Speaker 2: terms of Western culture, it being not at all a

705
00:38:47,120 --> 00:38:52,280
Speaker 2: weird thing to just be like, no, our ideology says

706
00:38:53,440 --> 00:38:56,120
Speaker 2: that we're going to make this a racial thing, and

707
00:38:56,200 --> 00:38:58,240
Speaker 2: it's weird of you to think it would be anything

708
00:38:58,280 --> 00:38:58,719
Speaker 2: other than that.

709
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:01,000
Speaker 1: Yeah, why wouldn't we do that? Yeah totally.

710
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:04,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, which, like listen, I'm willing to look at in

711
00:39:04,920 --> 00:39:10,840
Speaker 2: terms of like in its correct historical context, not to villainize,

712
00:39:10,880 --> 00:39:15,439
Speaker 2: but to understand. I just hate the revisionism that people

713
00:39:15,560 --> 00:39:17,520
Speaker 2: do when they talk about this time because all you

714
00:39:17,600 --> 00:39:23,400
Speaker 2: ever really hear about is the Arabs rejecting every peace

715
00:39:23,520 --> 00:39:29,320
Speaker 2: proposal and every you know Congress of Zionists, you know,

716
00:39:29,640 --> 00:39:35,279
Speaker 2: within the British Mandate Palestine, being like we just want hey,

717
00:39:35,440 --> 00:39:38,000
Speaker 2: we'll share. Well, of course we'll share. And it's like,

718
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:40,319
Speaker 2: this is not the case. This is not the case,

719
00:39:40,360 --> 00:39:43,399
Speaker 2: no matter how many times you pretend it is the case. Yeah.

720
00:39:44,920 --> 00:39:49,840
Speaker 1: This same year, everyone finally knew what was happening because

721
00:39:51,000 --> 00:39:54,520
Speaker 1: kind of a Looney Tunes way on October sixteenth, nineteen

722
00:39:54,600 --> 00:39:57,919
Speaker 1: thirty five, some people were unloading a ship and there's

723
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:02,600
Speaker 1: a barrel labeled cement and they dropped the barrel and

724
00:40:02,680 --> 00:40:06,160
Speaker 1: it broke. The men didn't come out, no, no, it

725
00:40:06,280 --> 00:40:11,360
Speaker 1: was it was guns and ammo locks and shit. And

726
00:40:11,480 --> 00:40:17,120
Speaker 1: someone said, hey, that's not cement. Yeah, that one barrel

727
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:20,480
Speaker 1: is probably the only barrel that somehow accidentally it must

728
00:40:20,520 --> 00:40:23,080
Speaker 1: have come from America. They were like, it's just a cement. Guy,

729
00:40:23,080 --> 00:40:23,880
Speaker 1: I got it mixed up with.

730
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 2: His a you know, they got the mafia there. Just

731
00:40:27,840 --> 00:40:29,800
Speaker 2: the bag of a truck fell off. What can you

732
00:40:29,920 --> 00:40:31,800
Speaker 2: do anyways, look away.

733
00:40:33,520 --> 00:40:38,520
Speaker 1: And so people were like, oh, underground terrorists, I as

734
00:40:38,560 --> 00:40:42,120
Speaker 1: militias are getting armed and now we know it seems bad.

735
00:40:43,320 --> 00:40:43,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

736
00:40:44,640 --> 00:40:48,160
Speaker 1: It kind of became do or die for folks, and

737
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,200
Speaker 1: it all came to a head in nineteen thirty six

738
00:40:51,320 --> 00:40:55,000
Speaker 1: and gets called well then not particularly evocative title is

739
00:40:55,080 --> 00:40:57,520
Speaker 1: the nineteen thirty six to nineteen thirty nine Arab Revolt

740
00:40:57,520 --> 00:41:02,200
Speaker 1: of Palestine or a vocative the Great Revolt? I know

741
00:41:02,280 --> 00:41:05,239
Speaker 1: which one I would rather be part of, the one

742
00:41:05,280 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: that implies you might win, not the one that's like,

743
00:41:07,920 --> 00:41:09,359
Speaker 1: but what happens in nineteen thirty nine?

744
00:41:09,840 --> 00:41:14,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah. I like anything that starts with great. Yeah.

745
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:17,320
Speaker 2: You know, whether it's like wars or gatsbies.

746
00:41:17,400 --> 00:41:19,960
Speaker 1: Yeah, or deals like these deals.

747
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 2: Yeah.

748
00:41:20,840 --> 00:41:24,520
Speaker 1: Nothing that was good, thank you, thank you.

749
00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:25,759
Speaker 2: Yeah.

750
00:41:26,480 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 1: Planned that one by Sophie reminded me to an ad.

751
00:41:32,320 --> 00:41:45,280
Speaker 1: Here's the ad break and we're back the Great Revolt.

752
00:41:46,520 --> 00:41:49,000
Speaker 1: Like a lot of really fucking cool movements, the Great

753
00:41:49,040 --> 00:41:52,080
Speaker 1: Revolt wasn't started by this or that group, not any

754
00:41:52,120 --> 00:41:59,080
Speaker 1: of the congresses or the different patriarchal families, or the

755
00:41:59,760 --> 00:42:04,040
Speaker 1: political parties, not even the communist parties or the Black.

756
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:06,360
Speaker 2: Hands or the Green Hands.

757
00:42:06,760 --> 00:42:09,240
Speaker 1: Yeah, although I guess it kind of was a little

758
00:42:09,239 --> 00:42:12,720
Speaker 1: bit started by some of the revolt could be labeled

759
00:42:13,120 --> 00:42:15,560
Speaker 1: as starting from the black hand guy getting killed a

760
00:42:15,680 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 1: Cassam and then also some terrorist actions. It led to

761
00:42:22,160 --> 00:42:24,839
Speaker 1: some things that where some settlers got killed, and then

762
00:42:25,200 --> 00:42:26,439
Speaker 1: some Arab kids got killed.

763
00:42:26,600 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 2: But the point is it's organic.

764
00:42:28,680 --> 00:42:32,920
Speaker 1: Yeah, But overall, I mean it was a lot of

765
00:42:32,960 --> 00:42:34,800
Speaker 1: different Like a lot of these things, a lot of

766
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:37,120
Speaker 1: different things are called the start point of it. But

767
00:42:37,480 --> 00:42:40,120
Speaker 1: the first thing that happened out of it was a

768
00:42:40,200 --> 00:42:44,920
Speaker 1: six month long Friend of the Pod general strike, probably

769
00:42:45,080 --> 00:42:47,800
Speaker 1: the longest one we've talked about on this show, besides

770
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:49,920
Speaker 1: the general strike of enslaved people in the US South

771
00:42:50,000 --> 00:42:53,719
Speaker 1: during the Civil War. As for why it had to

772
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:56,160
Speaker 1: start from the grassroots, I want to quote from the

773
00:42:56,200 --> 00:43:00,200
Speaker 1: book The One Hundred Years War on Palestine. In the

774
00:43:00,280 --> 00:43:03,360
Speaker 1: two decades after nineteen seventeen, the Palestinians had been unable

775
00:43:03,400 --> 00:43:06,399
Speaker 1: to develop an overarching framework for their national movement, such

776
00:43:06,440 --> 00:43:08,520
Speaker 1: as the WAFT in Egypt, or the Congress Party in

777
00:43:08,600 --> 00:43:12,440
Speaker 1: India or Shinfeane in Ireland, nor did they maintain an

778
00:43:12,440 --> 00:43:16,560
Speaker 1: apparently solid national front, as some others peoples fighting colonialism

779
00:43:16,640 --> 00:43:21,360
Speaker 1: had managed to do. Their efforts were undermined by the hierarchical, conservative,

780
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,400
Speaker 1: and divided nature of Palestinian society and politics, characteristic of

781
00:43:25,520 --> 00:43:28,440
Speaker 1: many in the region, and further sapped by a sophisticated

782
00:43:28,520 --> 00:43:31,719
Speaker 1: policy of divide and rule adopted by the mandatory authorities.

783
00:43:33,440 --> 00:43:37,120
Speaker 1: But by nineteen thirty six this divide and conquer wasn't

784
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,600
Speaker 1: working because that only affected the political class, not the grassroots.

785
00:43:42,440 --> 00:43:45,320
Speaker 1: A British civil servant who'd quit over how Palestine was

786
00:43:45,360 --> 00:43:48,839
Speaker 1: being treated. Because there are some decent people from wherever

787
00:43:48,880 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: you're born, He described the cause of the revolt like

788
00:43:52,600 --> 00:43:56,800
Speaker 1: this quote. The rebellion today is, to a greater extent

789
00:43:56,920 --> 00:44:00,400
Speaker 1: than ever before, a revolt of villagers, and its immediate

790
00:44:00,520 --> 00:44:04,960
Speaker 1: cause is the proposed scheme of partition. The moving spirits

791
00:44:04,960 --> 00:44:07,440
Speaker 1: in the revolt are not the nationalist leaders, most of

792
00:44:07,520 --> 00:44:10,000
Speaker 1: whom are now in exile, but men of the working

793
00:44:10,080 --> 00:44:12,680
Speaker 1: in agricultural classes who are risking their lives and what

794
00:44:12,760 --> 00:44:14,680
Speaker 1: they believe to be the only way left to them

795
00:44:15,080 --> 00:44:20,120
Speaker 1: of saving their homes and their villages. I just I

796
00:44:20,200 --> 00:44:21,320
Speaker 1: really like how clear that is.

797
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:23,879
Speaker 2: Yeah, that's like a British.

798
00:44:23,560 --> 00:44:26,640
Speaker 1: Guy writing at the time. One of the first groups

799
00:44:26,680 --> 00:44:28,640
Speaker 1: to throw down in this general strike was the Arab

800
00:44:28,760 --> 00:44:31,560
Speaker 1: Car Owners and Drivers Committee, and a lot of this

801
00:44:31,680 --> 00:44:35,280
Speaker 1: was actually tax strikes. After months of strikes, the Arab

802
00:44:35,360 --> 00:44:40,040
Speaker 1: High Arab High Committee signed on agreeing to non cooperation

803
00:44:40,120 --> 00:44:42,600
Speaker 1: and civil resistance all the stuff that people have been

804
00:44:42,640 --> 00:44:45,319
Speaker 1: advocating the whole time. They basically the leaders got drag

805
00:44:45,440 --> 00:44:47,960
Speaker 1: kicking and screaming into supporting what the people were already doing,

806
00:44:48,000 --> 00:44:53,880
Speaker 1: which is a tiles oldest time. Their demands were basically,

807
00:44:54,600 --> 00:44:57,520
Speaker 1: we want a democratic government and to stop Zionists from

808
00:44:57,520 --> 00:45:01,200
Speaker 1: colonizing our country. Resistance was a huge part of it,

809
00:45:01,560 --> 00:45:05,400
Speaker 1: literally under the classic slogan no taxation without representation.

810
00:45:06,160 --> 00:45:08,640
Speaker 2: Well, that sounds like some straight communism to me.

811
00:45:08,880 --> 00:45:11,040
Speaker 1: I know, absolutely, the reds must be there.

812
00:45:11,440 --> 00:45:16,319
Speaker 2: Mm hmm, that's no taxation without Stalin was like.

813
00:45:16,760 --> 00:45:20,800
Speaker 1: Yeah, actually, oh, I'm going to get the details of

814
00:45:20,800 --> 00:45:23,160
Speaker 1: the slightly wrong. So this partition is being planned, and

815
00:45:23,200 --> 00:45:26,399
Speaker 1: at first the communist parties were against the partition because

816
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:27,640
Speaker 1: they lived there, and they were like, we don't want

817
00:45:27,640 --> 00:45:30,120
Speaker 1: the partition. But then I think, I think I just

818
00:45:30,200 --> 00:45:31,560
Speaker 1: read this like right before, but didn't put in the

819
00:45:31,560 --> 00:45:33,880
Speaker 1: script because I didn't want to talk too much on Stalin. Randomly,

820
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:37,480
Speaker 1: Stalin was like, no, we support the partition. So then

821
00:45:37,480 --> 00:45:39,960
Speaker 1: all of the fucking Palaestinian communists had to be like,

822
00:45:40,000 --> 00:45:46,080
Speaker 1: we support the partition. Yeah, partition great, yeah, yeah, anyway,

823
00:45:46,520 --> 00:45:49,440
Speaker 1: the actual cool people doing shit support committees spread all

824
00:45:49,480 --> 00:45:52,120
Speaker 1: over the country doing mutual aid work like taking care

825
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:55,879
Speaker 1: of the sick and supporting families. Nonviolent marches were met

826
00:45:55,920 --> 00:46:00,720
Speaker 1: with bullets as always, organizers were jailed, martial law was enacted,

827
00:46:01,480 --> 00:46:03,680
Speaker 1: and this is all for the nonviolent stage of the revolt.

828
00:46:04,160 --> 00:46:07,200
Speaker 1: Prisoners are getting gunned down for non violently refusing orders

829
00:46:07,239 --> 00:46:11,000
Speaker 1: in jail and like one guy's quote is shouting, martyrdom

830
00:46:11,080 --> 00:46:14,480
Speaker 1: is better than jail as he refuses orders in jail

831
00:46:14,520 --> 00:46:19,279
Speaker 1: and gets killed. The Arab High Committee tried to co

832
00:46:19,400 --> 00:46:23,440
Speaker 1: opt the general strike in classic form. They called an

833
00:46:23,520 --> 00:46:25,920
Speaker 1: end to the general strike, being like, oh, don't worry.

834
00:46:26,000 --> 00:46:28,800
Speaker 1: The British have totally promised they'll take our concerns seriously.

835
00:46:28,880 --> 00:46:33,640
Speaker 1: Now we've totally totally shown them. This didn't happen. The

836
00:46:33,800 --> 00:46:37,919
Speaker 1: end of the general strike did happen. The British were like, well,

837
00:46:38,600 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: we've given a lot of thought and here on our

838
00:46:41,440 --> 00:46:43,239
Speaker 1: gloomy island we've decided what's best for you.

839
00:46:43,360 --> 00:46:46,120
Speaker 2: Over there, we'll give you know what they always know

840
00:46:46,239 --> 00:46:48,400
Speaker 2: what's best. I'm very excited for what this deal is

841
00:46:48,440 --> 00:46:50,960
Speaker 2: going to be. It's funny, better than a lot of

842
00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:53,919
Speaker 2: the shit now, but it still sucks. Yeah, we will

843
00:46:53,920 --> 00:46:56,239
Speaker 2: give seventeen percent of your country to the Jews, the

844
00:46:56,320 --> 00:46:59,160
Speaker 2: most productive seventeen percent, and do a little ethnic cleansing

845
00:46:59,239 --> 00:47:01,239
Speaker 2: in those areas quick, and you can have the rest

846
00:47:01,280 --> 00:47:03,239
Speaker 2: of the country. Only when I say you can have

847
00:47:03,239 --> 00:47:04,719
Speaker 2: the rest of the country, you'll still be under our

848
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:09,879
Speaker 2: colonial administration. Are anti colonials? Sorry, this is mandated. Yeah,

849
00:47:10,680 --> 00:47:14,160
Speaker 2: this was the first partition of Palestine. So part two

850
00:47:14,200 --> 00:47:17,479
Speaker 2: of the uprising wasn't as polite as the General strike

851
00:47:17,520 --> 00:47:21,759
Speaker 2: of nineteen thirty six. In October nineteen thirty seven, they're like,

852
00:47:21,760 --> 00:47:25,560
Speaker 2: all right, well that didn't work. Armed revolt time. Yeah,

853
00:47:25,719 --> 00:47:28,320
Speaker 2: that's kind of how it goes, especially you know, you

854
00:47:28,440 --> 00:47:31,160
Speaker 2: get that first antifada and you're just like, you know

855
00:47:31,239 --> 00:47:33,719
Speaker 2: what that was. That was pretty good. It was a

856
00:47:34,080 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 2: very peaceful except for all the you know, murder, idf

857
00:47:38,160 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 2: doing the murder. And then you get that second intifada

858
00:47:40,840 --> 00:47:42,719
Speaker 2: and you're like, oh, yeah, now this is the one

859
00:47:42,840 --> 00:47:44,759
Speaker 2: that everyone's going to bring up.

860
00:47:45,719 --> 00:47:46,520
Speaker 3: I know, I know.

861
00:47:46,719 --> 00:47:50,239
Speaker 1: And there's like the intro quote to the chapter in

862
00:47:50,280 --> 00:47:52,640
Speaker 1: one of these books was the whole those who make

863
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:57,480
Speaker 1: a nonviolent revolution impossible make violent revolution inevitable. Yeah, it's

864
00:47:57,480 --> 00:48:00,760
Speaker 1: like that is just true.

865
00:48:01,120 --> 00:48:03,520
Speaker 2: That's just true. That's just exactly. I mean, it just

866
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:06,160
Speaker 2: bears out in history every single time.

867
00:48:06,719 --> 00:48:11,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, and you know, yeah, and they people will go

868
00:48:11,480 --> 00:48:13,040
Speaker 1: back and forth with some of the tactical stuff with this.

869
00:48:13,560 --> 00:48:17,359
Speaker 1: It seems like they almost pulled this off. It took

870
00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:20,319
Speaker 1: one hundred thousand British soldiers to bring this to heal.

871
00:48:20,800 --> 00:48:24,279
Speaker 1: This is one soldier for every four adult Palestinian men.

872
00:48:25,320 --> 00:48:25,560
Speaker 2: Wow.

873
00:48:26,680 --> 00:48:30,959
Speaker 1: Now as they crushed it, it went real bad. There's

874
00:48:31,040 --> 00:48:34,479
Speaker 1: like the Brits are bringing in, you know, bombers and shit.

875
00:48:35,200 --> 00:48:38,400
Speaker 1: I've read ten percent. I've read seventeen percent of Palestinian men.

876
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,960
Speaker 1: Adult men were either killed, injured, arrested, or driven out

877
00:48:42,000 --> 00:48:45,759
Speaker 1: of the country during this time period. For demographic comparison,

878
00:48:46,280 --> 00:48:49,120
Speaker 1: that would be like if around twenty million adult American

879
00:48:49,200 --> 00:48:52,080
Speaker 1: men were rounded up and killed or driven out of

880
00:48:52,120 --> 00:48:57,080
Speaker 1: the country or oh shit whatever. One of the leaders

881
00:48:57,120 --> 00:48:59,359
Speaker 1: of the revolt was an experienced guerrilla fighter, and I'm

882
00:48:59,360 --> 00:49:01,200
Speaker 1: just bringing them up. This part of the story is cool.

883
00:49:01,280 --> 00:49:03,040
Speaker 1: And when I say experienced, I mean he was in

884
00:49:03,160 --> 00:49:06,640
Speaker 1: his mid seventies or his early eighties. Hell yeah, depending

885
00:49:06,680 --> 00:49:09,320
Speaker 1: on which source he read. His name is Farhan al Sadi,

886
00:49:10,040 --> 00:49:12,279
Speaker 1: who'd spent a bunch of time in prison and then

887
00:49:12,320 --> 00:49:14,399
Speaker 1: he joined I think the Black Hand when he got out.

888
00:49:14,960 --> 00:49:16,920
Speaker 1: I don't know love about him as a person to

889
00:49:17,000 --> 00:49:20,360
Speaker 1: like say one way or the other. But eventually he

890
00:49:20,520 --> 00:49:22,759
Speaker 1: was convicted of he I think he was the guy

891
00:49:22,800 --> 00:49:27,640
Speaker 1: who fired the shot that started the the pre part

892
00:49:27,680 --> 00:49:30,080
Speaker 1: of the revolt where I said, some where some settlers

893
00:49:30,120 --> 00:49:33,120
Speaker 1: got killed. I think he had like pulled them off

894
00:49:33,160 --> 00:49:36,800
Speaker 1: a bus and killed one of them or something. Oh yeah, yeah,

895
00:49:36,960 --> 00:49:39,920
Speaker 1: But he wasn't convicted of that. He was convicted of

896
00:49:40,000 --> 00:49:43,000
Speaker 1: the possession of a single round of ammunition and that

897
00:49:43,239 --> 00:49:47,520
Speaker 1: was the death penalty. They knew who he was, but

898
00:49:47,600 --> 00:49:50,640
Speaker 1: they couldn't prove anything else. As the best I can tell, Yeah,

899
00:49:51,480 --> 00:49:53,719
Speaker 1: he died at either age seventy five or eighty one,

900
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: so I guess by that we have to say seventy eight. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

901
00:49:59,640 --> 00:50:02,960
Speaker 1: in the of a gorilla struggle. And I think that

902
00:50:03,080 --> 00:50:05,719
Speaker 1: this is a heartwarming It is never too late to

903
00:50:05,800 --> 00:50:09,279
Speaker 1: follow your dreams. Inspiring news story, just like actors who

904
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:10,800
Speaker 1: don't get their start until their fifties.

905
00:50:11,640 --> 00:50:13,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's the same thing. You never know when you're

906
00:50:13,880 --> 00:50:16,080
Speaker 2: going to be you know, the spark of a revolution

907
00:50:17,239 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 2: or be a revolutionary Shahid. You know, it's never too

908
00:50:21,400 --> 00:50:23,000
Speaker 2: late to give up on your dreams, folks.

909
00:50:26,360 --> 00:50:32,759
Speaker 1: Now, meanwhile, the British go full fucking mad Max on

910
00:50:32,840 --> 00:50:36,360
Speaker 1: the rebels, and I wish I did not mean this literally.

911
00:50:37,480 --> 00:50:39,480
Speaker 1: They had developed this trick I had never heard of

912
00:50:40,000 --> 00:50:43,160
Speaker 1: over in Ireland or what you do? You take a

913
00:50:43,239 --> 00:50:46,440
Speaker 1: prisoner and you tie them to the front of your

914
00:50:46,520 --> 00:50:49,120
Speaker 1: car or train so the other rebels can't attack your

915
00:50:49,200 --> 00:50:52,719
Speaker 1: convoy because there's a living person tied to it that

916
00:50:53,120 --> 00:50:53,960
Speaker 1: is your prisoner.

917
00:50:55,600 --> 00:50:58,920
Speaker 2: So so first of all, that is just straight up

918
00:50:58,960 --> 00:51:03,560
Speaker 2: mad Max, insane. And second of all, you're telling me

919
00:51:03,880 --> 00:51:09,640
Speaker 2: the British were using human shields. Yes, absolutely, And there

920
00:51:09,800 --> 00:51:14,279
Speaker 2: was photos of this. The one I've seen isn't a

921
00:51:14,360 --> 00:51:17,000
Speaker 2: guy like tied to the grill. It's two guys tied

922
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:19,120
Speaker 2: up to a little trailer being pushed by the front

923
00:51:19,120 --> 00:51:21,080
Speaker 2: of the vehicle. Oh my god.

924
00:51:21,760 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: So they tied to the grill is like a little

925
00:51:24,000 --> 00:51:26,960
Speaker 1: bit more brutal. They had to develop the thing to

926
00:51:27,040 --> 00:51:29,279
Speaker 1: push in the front of this fucking car. They went

927
00:51:29,360 --> 00:51:33,000
Speaker 1: to a fucking auto shop fabricator and we're like, we

928
00:51:33,120 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: need a mad Max a guy and the guy was like,

929
00:51:35,560 --> 00:51:37,319
Speaker 1: I'm from the future. I know totally what you mean.

930
00:51:37,680 --> 00:51:41,560
Speaker 2: Yeah. Yeah, Like that's crazy because I just took a

931
00:51:41,600 --> 00:51:43,879
Speaker 2: time machine to watch that movie and now I'm back

932
00:51:43,920 --> 00:51:47,920
Speaker 2: here and I chose this time randomly because I'm evil,

933
00:51:48,480 --> 00:51:50,760
Speaker 2: because I'm evil, and I just like, you know, making

934
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:53,960
Speaker 2: weird shit for the British. Yeah. So yeah, let's do it. Bro,

935
00:51:54,200 --> 00:51:59,839
Speaker 2: Let's let's make this mad Max fucking torture human shield machine. Yeah,

936
00:52:00,320 --> 00:52:05,560
Speaker 2: every every accusation, every single goddamn time.

937
00:52:06,000 --> 00:52:09,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, if you are suspected of being a rebel, the

938
00:52:09,760 --> 00:52:12,240
Speaker 1: British would blow up your house or kill your family,

939
00:52:13,880 --> 00:52:16,400
Speaker 1: just doing the like we're sad we can't do this

940
00:52:16,480 --> 00:52:18,520
Speaker 1: in Ireland anymore, so we'll do it here.

941
00:52:19,160 --> 00:52:19,359
Speaker 2: Yeah.

942
00:52:19,719 --> 00:52:22,760
Speaker 1: They would demolish random homes and villages. This is against

943
00:52:22,800 --> 00:52:25,920
Speaker 1: international law, the whole collective punishment thing that has never

944
00:52:26,000 --> 00:52:28,360
Speaker 1: stopped an empire, especially not in this part of the

945
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:33,880
Speaker 1: country or a world. Thousands were arrested without trial. In

946
00:52:33,960 --> 00:52:37,399
Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight, the British destroyed this village, Baca Algarabia,

947
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:41,160
Speaker 1: burning down almost every wooden building and leveling seventy stone houses.

948
00:52:41,880 --> 00:52:44,680
Speaker 1: Then they arrested all the men in town and there's

949
00:52:44,719 --> 00:52:47,279
Speaker 1: this pattern that I've seen a bunch of times. Your

950
00:52:47,320 --> 00:52:49,799
Speaker 1: big shitty colonial state is trying to repress an anti

951
00:52:49,840 --> 00:52:53,120
Speaker 1: colonial or anti authoritarian revolution. So like, ah, we locked

952
00:52:53,200 --> 00:52:55,560
Speaker 1: up all the men, were like good now, and then

953
00:52:56,280 --> 00:52:58,080
Speaker 1: the women take things even harder.

954
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:01,719
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's most because they're just like women. They can't

955
00:53:01,760 --> 00:53:02,840
Speaker 2: do anything. I know.

956
00:53:03,680 --> 00:53:06,480
Speaker 1: Somehow they picked up rocks with their weak womenly arms.

957
00:53:06,600 --> 00:53:06,799
Speaker 2: Yeah.

958
00:53:06,880 --> 00:53:11,239
Speaker 1: Yeah, the women of the village brought their kids and

959
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:13,640
Speaker 1: a bunch of rocks and went to the military barracks

960
00:53:13,680 --> 00:53:15,880
Speaker 1: at night and were like, give us our fucking men

961
00:53:16,040 --> 00:53:17,480
Speaker 1: back and started throwing rocks.

962
00:53:17,719 --> 00:53:20,360
Speaker 2: Fuck yes, and it worked. Wow.

963
00:53:20,920 --> 00:53:23,080
Speaker 1: They got all of the men released from prison by

964
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:24,800
Speaker 1: storming the prison with rocks.

965
00:53:25,239 --> 00:53:29,520
Speaker 2: That is badass. Yeah, and so those are really really

966
00:53:29,680 --> 00:53:34,000
Speaker 2: nice wives. You know, I would like would do that

967
00:53:34,120 --> 00:53:38,000
Speaker 2: for me, but I don't think she would. Just tw

968
00:53:38,080 --> 00:53:40,600
Speaker 2: you know that these were decent husbands, you know. Yeah, yeah,

969
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:44,640
Speaker 2: clearly these are decent husbands. You know. With me, Francesca

970
00:53:44,640 --> 00:53:47,000
Speaker 2: would be like, you know, you need you need a

971
00:53:47,080 --> 00:53:48,160
Speaker 2: few weeks in there.

972
00:53:48,440 --> 00:53:51,080
Speaker 1: You know, prisoner. You know, we'll just put your name

973
00:53:51,120 --> 00:53:53,040
Speaker 1: on all the things draw to the cause.

974
00:53:53,600 --> 00:53:57,160
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly. She'll be like, you know what, I got

975
00:53:57,280 --> 00:53:59,359
Speaker 2: kind of a busy schedule this week. Can I throw

976
00:53:59,440 --> 00:54:03,320
Speaker 2: some rocks? Get a prison next week? I'm just getting

977
00:54:03,320 --> 00:54:14,279
Speaker 2: I love my wad former guest of the pod. Yeah.

978
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:19,000
Speaker 1: You know, other prisoners were liberated by more traditional methods

979
00:54:19,320 --> 00:54:21,680
Speaker 1: rebels with guns, storm jails and let Yeah.

980
00:54:21,760 --> 00:54:25,160
Speaker 2: Classic, classic, classic way to do it. There's multiple methods,

981
00:54:25,239 --> 00:54:27,960
Speaker 2: always good. Yeah, I always say go with the classic,

982
00:54:28,080 --> 00:54:31,359
Speaker 2: but I like, you know, the gangs of women with rocks. Yeah,

983
00:54:31,640 --> 00:54:35,360
Speaker 2: that's all you have is rocks. Exactly, go with the rocks.

984
00:54:35,320 --> 00:54:38,560
Speaker 3: Like when you buy name Brad Dreno, even though you

985
00:54:38,680 --> 00:54:41,640
Speaker 3: know that there's other brands that work just as good better.

986
00:54:42,280 --> 00:54:43,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, exactly.

987
00:54:43,440 --> 00:54:47,040
Speaker 1: You never go wrong storming to prison with rifles exactly.

988
00:54:47,440 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 2: I mean, for the most part, you could never go wrong. Yeah.

989
00:54:50,400 --> 00:54:52,680
Speaker 1: No, it totally doesn't end well badly for anyone any

990
00:54:52,719 --> 00:54:58,000
Speaker 1: talking about rebels took out an acting district commissioner, an

991
00:54:58,040 --> 00:55:00,560
Speaker 1: Australian guy who'd been really excited about the partition of

992
00:55:00,640 --> 00:55:03,200
Speaker 1: the country, and so four masked men did him a

993
00:55:03,239 --> 00:55:07,120
Speaker 1: shooting in September nineteen thirty seven, on his forty first birthday,

994
00:55:07,320 --> 00:55:09,279
Speaker 1: while he was on his way to his Protestant Church.

995
00:55:09,760 --> 00:55:11,800
Speaker 2: Oh shit, happy birthday. I know.

996
00:55:12,239 --> 00:55:16,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, here's a couple presents bonus holes and the speed

997
00:55:16,280 --> 00:55:17,360
Speaker 1: holes makes him go faster.

998
00:55:17,640 --> 00:55:22,759
Speaker 2: Yeah, exactly helps them blow out more candles. Yeah.

999
00:55:23,440 --> 00:55:26,600
Speaker 1: The British lost their fucking British minds over this. Yeah,

1000
00:55:26,880 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 1: they rounded up people and started torturing and raping people

1001
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:30,920
Speaker 1: to get information.

1002
00:55:31,360 --> 00:55:31,600
Speaker 2: Fuck.

1003
00:55:32,160 --> 00:55:34,760
Speaker 1: The funny thing about like being the boring reformist organization

1004
00:55:34,920 --> 00:55:37,400
Speaker 1: like the Arab High Committee that like Higher Committee that

1005
00:55:37,520 --> 00:55:40,200
Speaker 1: was like ended the strike and trying to play nice

1006
00:55:40,200 --> 00:55:45,479
Speaker 1: with the British. It never works. You're not safer after

1007
00:55:45,880 --> 00:55:49,080
Speaker 1: you know this Australian dude gets killed. The Arab High

1008
00:55:49,120 --> 00:55:53,040
Speaker 1: Committee was declared illegal and basically all the Nationalists leadership

1009
00:55:53,120 --> 00:55:57,960
Speaker 1: was deported or went into exile. But classically, a bottom

1010
00:55:57,960 --> 00:56:00,600
Speaker 1: of rebellion doesn't stopped by deporting its self at leaders

1011
00:56:00,880 --> 00:56:04,160
Speaker 1: and people went even harder. British lost. The British lost

1012
00:56:04,200 --> 00:56:07,000
Speaker 1: control over a lot of the country, especially the rural areas,

1013
00:56:07,040 --> 00:56:10,120
Speaker 1: and also a bunch of the cities. It was also

1014
00:56:10,200 --> 00:56:13,160
Speaker 1: this revolt that the Kafia, that black and white scarf

1015
00:56:13,280 --> 00:56:15,720
Speaker 1: became the symbol of rebellion and Palestinian pride.

1016
00:56:16,000 --> 00:56:19,600
Speaker 2: Oh all right, that I did not know that. Yeah,

1017
00:56:19,960 --> 00:56:22,880
Speaker 2: I mean I did know that. I've always known that totally.

1018
00:56:23,320 --> 00:56:26,879
Speaker 2: If we're wrong, I got it from a history book. Yeah. Also,

1019
00:56:26,920 --> 00:56:28,719
Speaker 2: if we're wrong, I didn't know that for a reason.

1020
00:56:28,800 --> 00:56:30,080
Speaker 1: I did get because wrong.

1021
00:56:30,400 --> 00:56:30,600
Speaker 2: Yeah.

1022
00:56:31,080 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like I mean things like that. I'm always like,

1023
00:56:34,440 --> 00:56:37,799
Speaker 1: there's probably multiple times or places, but that whatever sounds right,

1024
00:56:37,960 --> 00:56:40,879
Speaker 1: I'll go with it. The Palestinians almost pulled this off.

1025
00:56:41,480 --> 00:56:45,360
Speaker 1: One British general set in nineteen thirty eight. The situation

1026
00:56:45,640 --> 00:56:48,120
Speaker 1: was such that civil administration of the country was, to

1027
00:56:48,239 --> 00:56:53,440
Speaker 1: all practical purposes non existent, and that practically every village

1028
00:56:53,480 --> 00:56:56,000
Speaker 1: in the country harbors and supports the rebels and will

1029
00:56:56,280 --> 00:57:01,520
Speaker 1: assist in concealing their identity from the government forces. And

1030
00:57:02,360 --> 00:57:05,759
Speaker 1: so yeah, they got the fucking world. How different it

1031
00:57:05,760 --> 00:57:09,439
Speaker 1: would be if they'd pulled this off. Yeah, the two things.

1032
00:57:09,480 --> 00:57:12,200
Speaker 2: I imagine you say that sentence a lot on this podcast.

1033
00:57:12,239 --> 00:57:16,320
Speaker 1: I absolutely do. That is kind of the I'll be

1034
00:57:16,440 --> 00:57:18,720
Speaker 1: like the we we almost we almost did it is

1035
00:57:19,120 --> 00:57:20,160
Speaker 1: the other name of the show.

1036
00:57:21,400 --> 00:57:23,760
Speaker 2: If I almost did it, by Jim.

1037
00:57:24,040 --> 00:57:27,480
Speaker 1: We almost pulled it off, by every revolutionary everywhere. Yeah,

1038
00:57:29,120 --> 00:57:31,160
Speaker 1: the two things that brought down this rebellion. Were two

1039
00:57:31,200 --> 00:57:34,160
Speaker 1: things we see bring down an awful lot of rebellions. First,

1040
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:36,640
Speaker 1: and I think this is the most important thing to

1041
00:57:36,800 --> 00:57:42,200
Speaker 1: point it to, overwhelming military force of the British and

1042
00:57:42,400 --> 00:57:47,200
Speaker 1: their complete lack of like interest in following any semblance

1043
00:57:47,240 --> 00:57:50,800
Speaker 1: of law as they do it. You know, you're talking

1044
00:57:50,800 --> 00:57:53,600
Speaker 1: about shooting and prisoning or exiling almost one man and

1045
00:57:53,760 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: five in the country. That is twice a decimation for

1046
00:57:57,960 --> 00:57:58,919
Speaker 1: anyone keeping track.

1047
00:57:59,520 --> 00:58:03,920
Speaker 2: Oh, I forget that decimation is like a unit of measurement.

1048
00:58:04,320 --> 00:58:06,160
Speaker 1: Yeah, how to kill guys.

1049
00:58:06,680 --> 00:58:10,120
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I just always saw it as just like

1050
00:58:10,160 --> 00:58:12,840
Speaker 2: a word meaning a thing, but it's like a specific

1051
00:58:13,960 --> 00:58:15,120
Speaker 2: amount of dead, right.

1052
00:58:15,440 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 3: Yeah.

1053
00:58:15,680 --> 00:58:17,040
Speaker 1: It was funny. This actually came up in one of

1054
00:58:17,040 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 1: our most recent episodes. I think of it as related

1055
00:58:18,960 --> 00:58:21,760
Speaker 1: to a Tolstoy story about happening in the Russian military,

1056
00:58:21,880 --> 00:58:24,640
Speaker 1: and then Sophie pointed out that it was a Roman thing.

1057
00:58:26,040 --> 00:58:29,400
Speaker 1: Thinks about the Roman army, Roman military once a week. Yeah,

1058
00:58:30,040 --> 00:58:30,720
Speaker 1: that's how it goes.

1059
00:58:30,840 --> 00:58:31,920
Speaker 2: But yeah, hey, it.

1060
00:58:31,960 --> 00:58:39,800
Speaker 1: Didn't correct me. Must be right, that's okay. So they

1061
00:58:39,840 --> 00:58:43,560
Speaker 1: had one hundred thousand soldiers and they you know, fucked

1062
00:58:43,640 --> 00:58:47,200
Speaker 1: up everyone. They found the other thing that happened was

1063
00:58:47,240 --> 00:58:50,000
Speaker 1: a successful divide and conquer ended up kind of coming in.

1064
00:58:50,120 --> 00:58:53,720
Speaker 1: In the end, Palestinian started splitting between those that wanted

1065
00:58:53,720 --> 00:58:56,600
Speaker 1: to compromise and those that didn't, or, as another source

1066
00:58:56,640 --> 00:58:59,400
Speaker 1: put it, basically, it was like different strong men were

1067
00:58:59,440 --> 00:59:02,480
Speaker 1: vying for control, which would have been avoided by grassroots

1068
00:59:02,480 --> 00:59:05,840
Speaker 1: and democratic institutions. That's probably the bias of that author,

1069
00:59:05,880 --> 00:59:12,240
Speaker 1: but I probably share that bias. This split went badly.

1070
00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,480
Speaker 1: Hundreds of assassinations were the result of the split. One

1071
00:59:15,560 --> 00:59:17,320
Speaker 1: rebel wrote that it had started off as a war

1072
00:59:17,360 --> 00:59:21,320
Speaker 1: against the English and the Jews, but quote transformed into

1073
00:59:21,360 --> 00:59:24,520
Speaker 1: a civil war where methods of terrorism, pillage, theft, fire,

1074
00:59:24,640 --> 00:59:30,000
Speaker 1: and murder became common, which Jesus Christ no wonder. Ireland

1075
00:59:30,000 --> 00:59:32,240
Speaker 1: and Palestine are such tight friends. I'm just doing an

1076
00:59:32,280 --> 00:59:34,760
Speaker 1: ad libs from the same script talking about what the

1077
00:59:34,800 --> 00:59:35,960
Speaker 1: British did in Ireland.

1078
00:59:36,160 --> 00:59:38,160
Speaker 2: Yea splits and.

1079
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:43,240
Speaker 1: You know violence, Irish and Irish violence and Palestinian on

1080
00:59:43,320 --> 00:59:44,320
Speaker 1: Palestinian violence.

1081
00:59:45,280 --> 00:59:50,680
Speaker 2: The British are really good at that. They Americans taken conquer,

1082
00:59:50,840 --> 00:59:53,920
Speaker 2: but they can't cook a fucking meal. Weird, Now, well,

1083
00:59:53,920 --> 00:59:55,840
Speaker 2: they have to conquer places that know how to Yeah,

1084
00:59:55,840 --> 00:59:59,040
Speaker 2: they have to conquer places that know how to eat good. Yeah,

1085
00:59:59,160 --> 01:00:02,160
Speaker 2: so the only way, no wonder, there're so mad. Yeah.

1086
01:00:03,760 --> 01:00:06,920
Speaker 1: By the summer of nineteen thirty nine, the rebellion was

1087
01:00:07,000 --> 01:00:11,880
Speaker 1: crushed and Palestine was way way weaker. After the revolt,

1088
01:00:12,680 --> 01:00:15,160
Speaker 1: the newly armed and trained Zionist settlers came out on

1089
01:00:15,240 --> 01:00:17,160
Speaker 1: top because they were kind of like, I mean, like

1090
01:00:17,200 --> 01:00:20,640
Speaker 1: the British mostly did this right, but then the Zionists

1091
01:00:20,640 --> 01:00:23,760
Speaker 1: are like getting some military training, They're getting all these weapons.

1092
01:00:24,760 --> 01:00:27,400
Speaker 1: Even the General Strike wound up playing well for the

1093
01:00:27,520 --> 01:00:32,040
Speaker 1: Zionists because as different Arab industries shut down, Hebrew labor

1094
01:00:32,080 --> 01:00:36,240
Speaker 1: stepped up. If the Arab revolt had only been against

1095
01:00:36,240 --> 01:00:38,480
Speaker 1: the Zionists and the British had stayed out of it,

1096
01:00:39,160 --> 01:00:41,440
Speaker 1: the world would have been a completely different place today.

1097
01:00:42,480 --> 01:00:48,400
Speaker 2: Yeah. Well that's kind of the truth of anything the

1098
01:00:48,440 --> 01:00:49,080
Speaker 2: British touch.

1099
01:00:49,400 --> 01:00:51,360
Speaker 1: I know, if the British had stayed out of it,

1100
01:00:51,520 --> 01:00:57,200
Speaker 1: a tale of utopia is al. If the British had

1101
01:00:57,200 --> 01:00:59,320
Speaker 1: stayed out of it, then all the people fleeting programs

1102
01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:00,560
Speaker 1: could have gone to the UK.

1103
01:01:01,280 --> 01:01:07,760
Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, you know, it's just uh, it's and it's

1104
01:01:08,040 --> 01:01:12,120
Speaker 2: it's interesting too because I always find the mirroring of

1105
01:01:12,240 --> 01:01:15,680
Speaker 2: the two, the you know, the British colonial mindset and

1106
01:01:15,720 --> 01:01:19,520
Speaker 2: the Zionist mindset being so similar that it's when you

1107
01:01:19,760 --> 01:01:30,120
Speaker 2: see a British Israeli official talking where you go like, oh, okay, okay,

1108
01:01:30,200 --> 01:01:33,720
Speaker 2: the same same, same, same thing. It's like, you know,

1109
01:01:33,880 --> 01:01:36,960
Speaker 2: whenever I would see like what's his name, Alon Levy,

1110
01:01:37,400 --> 01:01:42,120
Speaker 2: who was like the former the former government spokesman for

1111
01:01:42,320 --> 01:01:44,200
Speaker 2: Israel wh would go on all the TV shows before

1112
01:01:44,240 --> 01:01:48,000
Speaker 2: he was fired because somehow he lied too much even

1113
01:01:48,120 --> 01:01:48,880
Speaker 2: for Israel.

1114
01:01:49,640 --> 01:01:49,760
Speaker 3: Uh.

1115
01:01:50,680 --> 01:01:55,480
Speaker 2: And like you know, you you hear his you know,

1116
01:01:55,640 --> 01:01:59,439
Speaker 2: his British accent, and you you hear what he's saying

1117
01:01:59,440 --> 01:02:01,280
Speaker 2: in the way saying. You're just like, yeah, this is

1118
01:02:01,880 --> 01:02:04,880
Speaker 2: this is like a British this is a very British

1119
01:02:05,480 --> 01:02:11,160
Speaker 2: euro centric type of you know, viewpoint. And also you know,

1120
01:02:12,120 --> 01:02:15,640
Speaker 2: just the whole affectation of it is very British And

1121
01:02:15,720 --> 01:02:17,760
Speaker 2: it kind of puts Zionism in this context that you

1122
01:02:17,840 --> 01:02:21,040
Speaker 2: didn't initially put it in because they've done so much

1123
01:02:21,080 --> 01:02:24,040
Speaker 2: reht conning in order to make it not seem like

1124
01:02:24,160 --> 01:02:28,120
Speaker 2: this Western settler colonial movement and rather some sort of

1125
01:02:28,680 --> 01:02:33,120
Speaker 2: indigenous rights movement created by the those you know who

1126
01:02:33,160 --> 01:02:36,800
Speaker 2: were kicked out of the schtettle in the pale of settlement,

1127
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:41,440
Speaker 2: and it's like, no, nope, nope, not my full story here.

1128
01:02:42,480 --> 01:02:44,520
Speaker 1: I mean, I've been aware of a lot of the

1129
01:02:44,600 --> 01:02:47,160
Speaker 1: modern stuff about Israel Palestine for a very long time,

1130
01:02:47,680 --> 01:02:51,959
Speaker 1: but this time period, a lot of the like quick

1131
01:02:52,120 --> 01:02:56,960
Speaker 1: history type stuff I had read had really basically been like, well,

1132
01:02:57,080 --> 01:02:59,320
Speaker 1: just too many Jews were coming, and it was okay

1133
01:02:59,360 --> 01:03:01,880
Speaker 1: when there's three Jews, but people got really mad if

1134
01:03:01,960 --> 01:03:06,760
Speaker 1: lots of Jews came, as compared to specifically being like no,

1135
01:03:06,960 --> 01:03:11,840
Speaker 1: this was a specific and conscious setting up of settlements

1136
01:03:12,000 --> 01:03:17,400
Speaker 1: that were outside the rest of society, and like just

1137
01:03:17,480 --> 01:03:19,400
Speaker 1: a completely fundamentally different thing.

1138
01:03:19,600 --> 01:03:19,800
Speaker 2: Is it?

1139
01:03:20,120 --> 01:03:23,440
Speaker 1: Really? That was the like I knew a lot of

1140
01:03:23,480 --> 01:03:25,000
Speaker 1: the broad strokes of a lot of this, but that

1141
01:03:25,120 --> 01:03:26,880
Speaker 1: was the stuff about the really early stuff that I

1142
01:03:26,960 --> 01:03:31,200
Speaker 1: was like, oh okay, now I yeah again it I.

1143
01:03:31,280 --> 01:03:36,680
Speaker 2: Think it's like, it's context that is important to understand

1144
01:03:36,800 --> 01:03:40,360
Speaker 2: for anyone who's like, who's you know, recently coming to

1145
01:03:40,560 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 2: this conflict and wanting to learn about it, and and

1146
01:03:45,160 --> 01:03:48,240
Speaker 2: it's it's you know, this context is also hard I

1147
01:03:48,280 --> 01:03:51,280
Speaker 2: think for some people on you know, for not just

1148
01:03:51,360 --> 01:03:54,320
Speaker 2: for like Zionists, but also for people who are anti

1149
01:03:54,440 --> 01:03:58,000
Speaker 2: Zionists trying to understand the conflict or learning about it

1150
01:03:58,120 --> 01:04:02,360
Speaker 2: and knowing that there was like you can't say, oh,

1151
01:04:02,640 --> 01:04:11,520
Speaker 2: the Palestinians were only ever victims. They were never you know, victimizing.

1152
01:04:11,560 --> 01:04:14,880
Speaker 2: It's because no, there was violent revolts going on against

1153
01:04:15,080 --> 01:04:18,120
Speaker 2: what they were seeing coming on the horizon. Was there

1154
01:04:19,360 --> 01:04:23,120
Speaker 2: eventual ethnic cleansing and they were right about it? Yeah,

1155
01:04:23,680 --> 01:04:27,400
Speaker 2: And you know it's like you can't say, oh, well,

1156
01:04:27,640 --> 01:04:32,240
Speaker 2: we only ethnically cleansed because they started revolting because they

1157
01:04:32,280 --> 01:04:35,720
Speaker 2: were worried about us ethnically cleansing, when it was so

1158
01:04:35,960 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 2: clear from the writings of early Zionists like Hertzeul, like Jobatinsky,

1159
01:04:40,840 --> 01:04:47,240
Speaker 2: you know, like fucking just like the entire early Zionist

1160
01:04:47,360 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 2: cohort was saying demographic majority is everything, and ethnic cleansing

1161
01:04:53,200 --> 01:04:54,720
Speaker 2: is the only way to go about it. You know.

1162
01:04:55,920 --> 01:04:59,880
Speaker 2: So they're not wrong. And it's not to say that

1163
01:05:00,080 --> 01:05:05,040
Speaker 2: I'm like, yeah, you know, I love killing people or whatever,

1164
01:05:05,560 --> 01:05:09,840
Speaker 2: but it's to say that this history that we have,

1165
01:05:10,000 --> 01:05:13,360
Speaker 2: this one sided narrative of just like oh, the Arabs,

1166
01:05:14,040 --> 01:05:16,400
Speaker 2: you know, didn't want there to be Jews or thought

1167
01:05:16,440 --> 01:05:20,240
Speaker 2: there were too many Jews or whatnot. Yeah, is just

1168
01:05:20,600 --> 01:05:23,240
Speaker 2: is just completely completely missing the point.

1169
01:05:23,680 --> 01:05:33,720
Speaker 1: Yeah, well, if you support the protests that are happening

1170
01:05:33,880 --> 01:05:36,400
Speaker 1: whenever you are listening to this as we're recording it

1171
01:05:36,520 --> 01:05:40,440
Speaker 1: right now, there's really amazing and inspiring protests at universities

1172
01:05:40,480 --> 01:05:42,919
Speaker 1: across the US that the police.

1173
01:05:42,600 --> 01:05:45,400
Speaker 2: Are violently putting down.

1174
01:05:45,560 --> 01:05:49,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, violently putting down because people are camping on a

1175
01:05:49,440 --> 01:05:51,640
Speaker 1: place they pay forty thousand dollars a year to go.

1176
01:05:52,440 --> 01:05:56,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, that the mainstream media and government officials are calling

1177
01:05:56,240 --> 01:06:01,560
Speaker 2: anti semitic, even though there's a large and disproportionately Jewish

1178
01:06:01,680 --> 01:06:06,280
Speaker 2: population of people who are there supporting the protests for

1179
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:11,120
Speaker 2: you know, divestment on these college campuses from Israel. Yeah,

1180
01:06:11,240 --> 01:06:14,160
Speaker 2: and you know all that all that fun stuff, all

1181
01:06:14,200 --> 01:06:22,720
Speaker 2: the you know, fun authoritarian bullshit that we doesn't affect us.

1182
01:06:24,320 --> 01:06:28,760
Speaker 1: Yeah, So support those things or whatever is happening by

1183
01:06:28,800 --> 01:06:34,960
Speaker 1: the time you read this. Because until Palestine is free people, yeah,

1184
01:06:35,120 --> 01:06:36,560
Speaker 1: I mean yeah.

1185
01:06:37,000 --> 01:06:41,200
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean straight up, that is the That is

1186
01:06:41,280 --> 01:06:44,600
Speaker 2: a hard fast truth of it. And if you want

1187
01:06:44,680 --> 01:06:51,720
Speaker 2: to support them through uh laughing, Ah, I've got a plug.

1188
01:06:51,600 --> 01:06:55,160
Speaker 1: For you, Okay, what is it? I will support them

1189
01:06:55,160 --> 01:06:55,920
Speaker 1: by laughing.

1190
01:06:56,000 --> 01:07:00,200
Speaker 2: It's called Bad Hasbar the World's most moral podcasts. A

1191
01:07:00,320 --> 01:07:04,640
Speaker 2: podcast that I do about Israeli propaganda. It is mostly

1192
01:07:04,920 --> 01:07:10,040
Speaker 2: just you know, me and some friends sitting around talking

1193
01:07:10,360 --> 01:07:16,400
Speaker 2: about just some crazy propaganda that we saw, you know, recently,

1194
01:07:16,520 --> 01:07:18,840
Speaker 2: and making fun of it. It's a lot of fun.

1195
01:07:18,920 --> 01:07:24,920
Speaker 2: It's cathartic. I don't think it will help anything in

1196
01:07:25,040 --> 01:07:27,720
Speaker 2: the world, So obviously, give your time and energy to

1197
01:07:27,880 --> 01:07:31,840
Speaker 2: something you know, more direct, Yes, more direct.

1198
01:07:31,600 --> 01:07:34,440
Speaker 1: But direct stuff matters. But direct stuff matters too.

1199
01:07:35,040 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 2: Yeah, if you but if you want to, you know,

1200
01:07:36,640 --> 01:07:40,200
Speaker 2: like to have an emotional break from it, and you

1201
01:07:40,280 --> 01:07:43,280
Speaker 2: want to you feel like no one else is is

1202
01:07:43,640 --> 01:07:49,439
Speaker 2: giving you permission to, you know, be mad. Come, come,

1203
01:07:49,920 --> 01:07:51,160
Speaker 2: come laugh with us. It's fun.

1204
01:07:53,400 --> 01:07:57,120
Speaker 1: Wholly endorse this podcast. I wrote. My plug is that

1205
01:07:57,680 --> 01:08:01,120
Speaker 1: I have a substack Marto Kildroy dot substack whatever, and

1206
01:08:03,040 --> 01:08:05,960
Speaker 1: recently by whenever you hear this, but maybe not super recently,

1207
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:08,120
Speaker 1: by whenever you hear this, I wrote a piece called

1208
01:08:08,200 --> 01:08:10,760
Speaker 1: Casting Fire, which came out of a conversation I had.

1209
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:14,760
Speaker 1: I was giving a presentation to students at the New

1210
01:08:14,840 --> 01:08:18,200
Speaker 1: School unrelated to the occupation. A class had read one

1211
01:08:18,240 --> 01:08:20,519
Speaker 1: of my books and I was zooming in to talk

1212
01:08:20,560 --> 01:08:22,880
Speaker 1: to them about that, but then the occupation had taken off,

1213
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:29,599
Speaker 1: so instead we talked about what I have learned through

1214
01:08:29,640 --> 01:08:34,280
Speaker 1: my experience and through my reading about the stages of

1215
01:08:34,600 --> 01:08:38,479
Speaker 1: protests and how to avoid recuperation, and how we inoculate

1216
01:08:38,520 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 1: ourselves against various types of splintering, the things that destroy movements,

1217
01:08:42,640 --> 01:08:45,000
Speaker 1: how to avoid it. It's called casting Fire. It's very short,

1218
01:08:45,640 --> 01:08:51,240
Speaker 1: but it's free. It's an essay. That's what I got, Sophie.

1219
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:52,120
Speaker 1: Anything you want to plug?

1220
01:08:52,600 --> 01:08:55,320
Speaker 3: Yeah, we have a new podcast. It's a weekly podcast

1221
01:08:55,400 --> 01:09:00,120
Speaker 3: hosted by Jimmie loftis called sixteenth Minute of Fame. And

1222
01:09:00,680 --> 01:09:06,000
Speaker 3: if it is after April thirtieth, the trailer is out.

1223
01:09:06,040 --> 01:09:09,479
Speaker 3: If it's after May seventh episode or more.

1224
01:09:10,960 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 1: And that's the weekly rewatch podcast of sixteen Candles where

1225
01:09:14,600 --> 01:09:18,680
Speaker 1: every week Jamie watches sixteen Candles its top in a

1226
01:09:18,720 --> 01:09:23,160
Speaker 1: different way, the subject just over and over again forever.

1227
01:09:25,160 --> 01:09:27,800
Speaker 1: It's the Groundhog Day of podcasts about a different movie.

1228
01:09:27,880 --> 01:09:30,519
Speaker 2: My gosh, pod yourself a sixteenth candle.

1229
01:09:31,040 --> 01:09:37,719
Speaker 1: Yeah, and we will be back next week with more stuff. Actually,

1230
01:09:37,760 --> 01:09:39,759
Speaker 1: I think we'll be back next week with Jamie loftus

1231
01:09:40,600 --> 01:09:45,559
Speaker 1: probably unless schedules change, in which case we won't. Bye everyone.

1232
01:09:51,120 --> 01:09:53,560
Speaker 3: Cool People Who Did Cool Stuff is a production of

1233
01:09:53,640 --> 01:09:56,719
Speaker 3: cool Zone Media. For more podcasts on cool Zone Media,

1234
01:09:56,920 --> 01:09:59,960
Speaker 3: visit our website coolzonemedia dot com, or check us out

1235
01:10:00,240 --> 01:10:03,599
Speaker 3: on the iHeartRadio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you get

1236
01:10:03,640 --> 01:10:04,400
Speaker 3: your podcasts.