Speaker 1: Please tell me it's not about Tom. It's about Tom.
Speaker 1: It's not about to about Tom Rose. I know exactly
Speaker 1: when you're gonna die, and I love that about me. Um,
Speaker 1: we're obviously referencing one of the greatest cameos, one of
Speaker 1: the crest cameos of all time, the psychic who was
Speaker 1: on the first season of Real Housewives of Beverly Hills.
Speaker 1: The first season. It was the first season, and yesterday
Speaker 1: we are talking about Real Housewives as a franchise, as
Speaker 1: a pop cultural jugg or not. I feel like Housewives
Speaker 1: is kind of polarizing. Like I personally just started watching
Speaker 1: um in the pandemic, and so before that moment, I
Speaker 1: really did not want to consume any Housewives content at all.
Speaker 1: So if you have an aversion to it, maybe this
Speaker 1: conversation will key you into why we love it so much. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and we are going to go back to the beginning
Speaker 1: and see how it all started, because this is like
Speaker 1: a virgin the show where we give yesterday's pop culture
Speaker 1: today's takes. I'm Rose, damn you, and I'm fran Toronto. Um. Listen,
Speaker 1: New York Virgins, we are coming for you. This is
Speaker 1: an extra special announcement we are having a live show
Speaker 1: on June at three dollar Bill in Brooklyn. Rose, I'm
Speaker 1: so excited. Yes, we're doing our first live event. It's
Speaker 1: gonna be so fun. We are going to have performers
Speaker 1: and secret special guests and thrills, chills, ur audience participation,
Speaker 1: splash zones. There will be a splash zone. Heartbreak will
Speaker 1: feel good in a place like this. Producer Phoebe will
Speaker 1: be there and might be you know, um, playing a
Speaker 1: very stage manager, or she might be slinging you merch.
Speaker 1: She might be you know, wrangling drag queens. Who knows
Speaker 1: what will happen. So New York Virgins, Tri State Area virgins,
Speaker 1: come spend a couple hours with us. It's going to
Speaker 1: be a really fun time and we want you to
Speaker 1: be there at our first ever live show during Pride.
Speaker 1: You can get tickets um with the link in the
Speaker 1: bio of our burner. That's like a Virgin. I'm sure
Speaker 1: that Rose and I will put the ticket link in
Speaker 1: our own personal bios as well. Lots of different bios.
Speaker 1: You can find the ticket link in. Just find the
Speaker 1: ticket link and buy a ticket and we will see
Speaker 1: you there. Um, And there's gonna be a little bit
Speaker 1: of a party after, so we'll get to hang with you.
Speaker 1: How are you doing, Franny, Well, I mean, I'm exhausted.
Speaker 1: I had a I had a very very bad travel
Speaker 1: day on Saturday, that I do you really went through
Speaker 1: it this weekend? It was nightmarish and I hope I
Speaker 1: never experienced that again. But what did you do this weekend? Rose?
Speaker 1: I feel like you had a quite a the opposite
Speaker 1: weekend and that it was very lax and luxurious. I
Speaker 1: did it was? I Um. I rented a cabin in
Speaker 1: Big Bear for a couple of days. I wanted to
Speaker 1: do a little writing retreat Vaca moment, and I just
Speaker 1: spent my whole trip outside writing on the porch, going
Speaker 1: in the hot tub. And then I also did like
Speaker 1: watch a lot of TV at night after I was
Speaker 1: you know, done writing for the day. Then I let
Speaker 1: myself watch TV and read Star Wars fan fiction, my
Speaker 1: like my current vice. Yeah. I finally started watching Obi
Speaker 1: Wan Kenobi, which I'm really enjoying the season. And you know,
Speaker 1: I don't know if you know this, but the Star
Speaker 1: Wars fandom on the internet is really tomic. It's like
Speaker 1: and the racism got to such a fever pitch that
Speaker 1: you and McGregor had to like make a video statement
Speaker 1: about it and say like, if you are racist, you
Speaker 1: are not a Star Wars fan, and like get out,
Speaker 1: we did. We didn't know that happened. That's so it's cool.
Speaker 1: It's it's good to see Disney and like the talent
Speaker 1: finally making a stand in this fandom. But it's still
Speaker 1: really upsetting and a lot and so many people are
Speaker 1: like hate this show, and I think it's really great
Speaker 1: and it really has me back on my you and
Speaker 1: McGregor bullshit, my Star Wars bullshit. The prequels are really
Speaker 1: like what I grew up with, and I do love
Speaker 1: that era of Star Wars, so this is really hitting
Speaker 1: a sweet spot for me. I've never gotten into any
Speaker 1: sort of Star Wars original series, Like the whole Baby
Speaker 1: Yoda thing. I was like, even that couldn't make me
Speaker 1: watch the show. We're gonna need to do a Star
Speaker 1: Wars episode virgins. If you would like to hear that,
Speaker 1: let us know. I would like that, but I don't
Speaker 1: want to watch like the New Ones. I only want
Speaker 1: to watch the the the O G three. Okay, well,
Speaker 1: another thing that I watched when I was in Big
Speaker 1: Bear was the entire first season of the Sex Lives
Speaker 1: of College Girls. Did you watch that when it was on? No.
Speaker 1: All I remember is that every one told me to
Speaker 1: watch The Sex Lives of College Girls when it came out,
Speaker 1: because they were like, oh my god, it's surprisingly good.
Speaker 1: And I was like, the fact that like so many
Speaker 1: people in a row are telling me it's quote unquote
Speaker 1: surprisingly good, I think is a little bit of a
Speaker 1: red flag, but I'm gonna be I'm gonna be the
Speaker 1: latest person to tell you it is surprisingly good. The
Speaker 1: pilot is pretty bad in terms of how it's written,
Speaker 1: like it's very much hello fellow teenagers, like writers trying
Speaker 1: to replicate what they think teenagers talk like, but that
Speaker 1: that gets less and less as the show goes on,
Speaker 1: and there were several moments where I laughed out loud
Speaker 1: watching it. One of the lead girls is Polly and
Speaker 1: challom Timothy shallowmy sister, and she does kind of look
Speaker 1: like Timothy shallowme with boobs. What huge boobs, huge jugs, jugs.
Speaker 1: I feel like I've seen a meme you've you posted
Speaker 1: of Timothy with huge jugs, and that's based when his
Speaker 1: sister looks like, oh my god, well, I mean gender
Speaker 1: goals honestly, Um, but it's good. Yeah, I honestly need
Speaker 1: respite after finally watching The Staircase, um, which I told
Speaker 1: you very adamantly that I wasn't going to watch, but
Speaker 1: that you and that when you did watch it this weekend,
Speaker 1: you said you weren't going to talk about it on
Speaker 1: the pod. Okay. So here's the thing about me is that, um,
Speaker 1: sometimes I don't no, no, no, sometimes I don't know
Speaker 1: what I'm talking about. And when I said I wasn't
Speaker 1: going to watch The Staircase, I thought you were talking
Speaker 1: about the Mormon Show with Andrew Garfield, which I did
Speaker 1: also don't watch that. I loved it, but you will not.
Speaker 1: I watched the pilot of that of the Andrew Garfield Show,
Speaker 1: and let me tell you, I'm very happy that Andrew
Speaker 1: Garfield has found kind of playing the same person over
Speaker 1: and over again, which is kind of like it's kind
Speaker 1: of like it's kind of like no, no, it's actually
Speaker 1: like nice. It's like very nice conservative white I who
Speaker 1: is insecure and not gay for some reason, like the
Speaker 1: kind of gay. But that's the thing is like all
Speaker 1: of it because but are very explicitly not gay, and
Speaker 1: you're like, why just be gay? But but I do
Speaker 1: ship him with his detective partner on the show. Yeah,
Speaker 1: the detective partner energy. Um, but to the staircase, to
Speaker 1: the point of the staircase. You know, it's very good. Um,
Speaker 1: it is like very gay, it's very bigeable, and I'm
Speaker 1: not sure I would want to watch it if I
Speaker 1: if I wasn't binging. Sometimes it is a little background
Speaker 1: TV because of like, you know, a lot of exposition
Speaker 1: and a lot of like stuff like that. Um. It
Speaker 1: does also sometimes feel like, you know, the undoing if
Speaker 1: it was directed by Ariastar, But I I really you
Speaker 1: know what I mean. But but it's good, Like it's
Speaker 1: a really good and if you haven't watched it, it's
Speaker 1: basically just like Joanie Janie Janie, Tony collect Joni Mitchell
Speaker 1: falls down the scene Toni Collette falls down a staircase.
Speaker 1: She's extremely mangled and looks as if she's like murdered,
Speaker 1: and the husband says he didn't do it, And you're
Speaker 1: kind of following this story trying to figure out if
Speaker 1: she actually fell or if she was murdered, and I
Speaker 1: am not. And it's and it's based and it's based
Speaker 1: off of a document It's based off a true story,
Speaker 1: and dom yes, Fran, I didn't know that, Fran, Yes,
Speaker 1: it's it's this is It's based off of a true
Speaker 1: story and a documentary about that story, which is kind
Speaker 1: of what started the entire modern true crime genre. So
Speaker 1: and so that's why I really liked the show. I mean,
Speaker 1: outside of the great performances and the drama of it all,
Speaker 1: I think it's a really interesting take on what that
Speaker 1: true crime genre is looking back to the thing that
Speaker 1: created it. And what I love so much about Tony
Speaker 1: Collette in it is that in these pieces of media
Speaker 1: true crime, you know, where there's like some some dead
Speaker 1: white woman, um that that person is usually incredibly abstracted
Speaker 1: and like really absent from the narrative. And like that's
Speaker 1: the thing with Kathleen in terms of like the reality
Speaker 1: of this crime is like she's very unknowable because she
Speaker 1: died and like most of the drama around her life
Speaker 1: happened after she was dead, And this show, I think
Speaker 1: does an amazing job of making her a real person,
Speaker 1: like obviously a fictionalized version of that, but I think
Speaker 1: it's kind of inserting this woman back into her own
Speaker 1: story it. Honestly, she Tony is so fucking captivating and
Speaker 1: everything she does, but oh my god, honey in the
Speaker 1: kitchen for Prestige TV, in the name of God, let
Speaker 1: me she deserves Emmys. She deserves accomplishments and rim jobs.
Speaker 1: Accomplishments and rim jobs. And let me tell you also,
Speaker 1: what Tony has to do physically with her body in
Speaker 1: this show is so extremely difficult to do as an actor.
Speaker 1: And yet Tony is so good at dying on screen,
Speaker 1: and she has had to do this in countless movies,
Speaker 1: and it has drawn such a new respect for for me.
Speaker 1: I've always loved Tony, but it's like such a new
Speaker 1: respect for me to realize that is as an actor,
Speaker 1: it's actually extremely psychologically and physically difficult to do what
Speaker 1: she does over and over again. And I hope that
Speaker 1: this is like, you know, another award that she can win,
Speaker 1: because she does. But she also what I appreciate her
Speaker 1: as an actor is that she doesn't get trapped in it.
Speaker 1: I think there was like, um, a video going around
Speaker 1: on Twitter and then maybe also on TikTok of some
Speaker 1: of someone asking her if she does method acting and
Speaker 1: she was like, no, I think that's pretty stupid, UM,
Speaker 1: which I love, Like you can just be good at
Speaker 1: pretending and she really is exactly that's exactly it. Um.
Speaker 1: But anyways, UM that I've that's basically all have been consuming,
Speaker 1: aside from the new B sides that were released from
Speaker 1: Scissa's control. Have you listened to that yet? I have not? Um,
Speaker 1: how are they? I I mean, they're there. It's Scissa,
Speaker 1: so it's always going to be like sublime and perfect
Speaker 1: and beautiful and heartbreaking. UM. Some of these songs were
Speaker 1: released on SoundCloud last year by her. UM. One of
Speaker 1: them is called Jody, but on SoundCloud it was called
Speaker 1: Jodie Foster. And that is actually my favorite of the
Speaker 1: new releases. I've been having it on repeat in my head,
Speaker 1: like literally, like the refrain plays in my head all
Speaker 1: the time, all day every day. It's like that good.
Speaker 1: But I think I just the release is just so
Speaker 1: messy to me because like where is her album? And
Speaker 1: what was with these SoundCloud songs? And like why are
Speaker 1: these SoundCloud songs? All of a sudden, A part of
Speaker 1: what I feel is like a absolutely perfect album that
Speaker 1: doesn't need to be touched at all, you know what
Speaker 1: I mean? Like when Bowen on our pod. Um, if
Speaker 1: you haven't listened to Bowen's episode our Taylor Swift's Red episode,
Speaker 1: it's very good. But when Bowen said on our pod
Speaker 1: that Control is the blue of our generation, like that
Speaker 1: really is the t Like I feel like Control to
Speaker 1: me the same way Blue does just encapsulates our generation
Speaker 1: perfectly with cultural references that we understand, with a heartbreak
Speaker 1: that's like very relatable, with like really really like like poetic,
Speaker 1: like true poetry in the lyricism that is sometimes abstract
Speaker 1: and sometimes crystal clear. Like that is so blue. And
Speaker 1: Joanie would never you know, release Blue and then like
Speaker 1: release a bunch of B sides like like it would
Speaker 1: just kind of taint the purity of something that is
Speaker 1: so perfect. And I think Control perfect, um. I mean actually,
Speaker 1: like Joonie did release B sides um like a few
Speaker 1: years ago actually, but like that doesn't count. That's like
Speaker 1: fifty years, you know what I mean. And they were
Speaker 1: really good B sides, but Joe Rogan did take them
Speaker 1: away from us. I love a B side. But also,
Speaker 1: you know, part of making art is editing and is
Speaker 1: about being intentional about what what you leave in the
Speaker 1: work you're making. And what you take out of it.
Speaker 1: And part of the reason why some of the most
Speaker 1: iconic albums of all time are the way they are
Speaker 1: is because of those choices that were made. And like,
Speaker 1: especially if you listen to an album, you know, from
Speaker 1: beginning to end, like you're listening to it the way
Speaker 1: that the artist wanted you to, and like that is
Speaker 1: intentional in and of itself. So like, yes, it's always
Speaker 1: great to get some B sides, but I still find
Speaker 1: myself thinking of, you know, the original as as the
Speaker 1: that's the thing that I'm going to want to go
Speaker 1: back to. Yeah. Same, And it's like I'm not mad
Speaker 1: at says there anything. It's just like I just I
Speaker 1: think I would have been very happy for any of
Speaker 1: these tracks to be released as singles, Like I didn't
Speaker 1: think that they need to be tacked onto something that
Speaker 1: is so untouchable and Scissa is so untouchable to me. Um,
Speaker 1: but anyways, those are those that's my music take for
Speaker 1: the week. Yeah, I will need to listen to that.
Speaker 1: I also, um, Lucky Lee just released a new album
Speaker 1: that I need to listen to. So hopefully I'll have
Speaker 1: some updated music thoughts next week. While we're on the
Speaker 1: music portion. Have you listened to Christina's Spanish language album?
Speaker 1: I have not. It's apparently going to be a series
Speaker 1: of Spanish language albums question Mark. I don't actually have
Speaker 1: the intel on this, but um, it's really good. I
Speaker 1: mean a lot of it is like very generic, but
Speaker 1: like to hear Christina in this genre which is sometimes
Speaker 1: like like straight up mariachi, like soul like ballad mariachi
Speaker 1: is like so good. Um, and it's kind of giving
Speaker 1: what I wish Omar Apollo gave. And honestly, her Spanish
Speaker 1: like isn't that bad? Like I I feel like, you know,
Speaker 1: she it's it's not perfect, but she commits to it.
Speaker 1: And I think that's something that I really appreciated, is
Speaker 1: that when you've ascended to the level as high as Christina, like,
Speaker 1: it's it's a pretty major play to say I'm going
Speaker 1: to do a Spanish language album, So you know, I'm
Speaker 1: glad she's doing it. Good for her, Good for her?
Speaker 1: Do you want to talk about her dick? It's kind
Speaker 1: of baity to me, but maybe Christina pegs her husband
Speaker 1: just I have a lot of doubts, but like, can't
Speaker 1: it just be a gag that she like wore a
Speaker 1: strap on. I mean, do we have to plummet for
Speaker 1: a deeper meaning? Unfortunately with me, I have no choice
Speaker 1: but to intellectualize and overprocess everything. However, as you're saying it,
Speaker 1: you know, maybe you're right. Um, I will tell you
Speaker 1: that I saw a movie last night that you would
Speaker 1: there would be absolutely no way for you to extract
Speaker 1: any kind of deeper meaning from, which is Jurassic World.
Speaker 1: I don't even know the newest Jurassic World movie, um,
Speaker 1: which you know. The whole thing about it is that
Speaker 1: it's reuniting all of the stars of the original Jurassic Park,
Speaker 1: Laura Dern, Jeff Goldbloom, and Sam Neil. And it's crazy
Speaker 1: to watch a two and a half hour Jurassic Park
Speaker 1: movie in which the dinosaurs are not even really the
Speaker 1: main feature of the movie. So the movie do I
Speaker 1: even want to know? The last movie ended with dinosaurs
Speaker 1: now being out in the world, and I thought that
Speaker 1: would be the premise of this movie, like, that's really interesting,
Speaker 1: what's the world like when dinosaurs live among us? Instead,
Speaker 1: it takes a sharp turn away from that and becomes
Speaker 1: about this like tech pharmaceutical company who have used um
Speaker 1: like dinosaur DNA to make these crazy locusts that are
Speaker 1: like eating all of the world crops, And so the
Speaker 1: movie weirdly becomes about rehistoric but but bugs and corporate
Speaker 1: espionage obviously, and it's just really weird. It was very long.
Speaker 1: It's also a lot about clones, because there's a clone girl,
Speaker 1: and and like I just the point of Jurassic Park
Speaker 1: is the dinosaurs. It is not. It's yes, it's about
Speaker 1: the humans trying to survive the dinosaurs, but it's about dinosaurs.
Speaker 1: So to watch a movie in which the dinosaurs are
Speaker 1: like a secondary thing, What babe, what are we doing here?
Speaker 1: Makes no sense to me? And that's infuriating because I
Speaker 1: really do love Jurassic Parks so much. The last movie
Speaker 1: I do too. It's a little bit of a flop. Yeah,
Speaker 1: and I still had a good time. There were some
Speaker 1: good moments. There's um there's a scene Bryce Stallas Howard
Speaker 1: honestly was one of the best parts of the movie,
Speaker 1: her and Laura Dern And there's a scene where Bryce
Speaker 1: Stallice Howard is crawling into a swamp to get away
Speaker 1: from this dinosaur, and it actually was probably the best
Speaker 1: part of the movie. It was incredibly tense, um. And
Speaker 1: that's that's the kind of thing you want when you
Speaker 1: are watching a Jurassic Park movie. You want to see
Speaker 1: people trying to not get eaten or people getting eaten
Speaker 1: by dinosaurs. Yeah, exactly, And there was not there was
Speaker 1: not enough of that. And also, you know, hate Chris
Speaker 1: Pratt um or Crisp Crisp Ratt as he is referred
Speaker 1: to ums. But you know, Laura Dern looked amazing, was amazing.
Speaker 1: I just wish she hadn't spent most of her time
Speaker 1: in the film talking about bugs. And the bugs were
Speaker 1: really great. I don't want to hear about the fucking bugs.
Speaker 1: That sounds stupid. Get the get the bug off the screen.
Speaker 1: I'm not watching that speaking of something that I wanted
Speaker 1: off the screen. This week, I'm not going to recap
Speaker 1: the legendary finale that aired because they just have too
Speaker 1: many thoughts on it. But girl, the finale opens and
Speaker 1: the judges you know, aren't coming out to present, you know,
Speaker 1: they always present their kind of look or whatever. And
Speaker 1: DeShawn goes today's episode. He didn't say it like this,
Speaker 1: but basically was like and today's episode is brought to
Speaker 1: you by Dolce and Gabbana, and every single look that
Speaker 1: you see on the runway today is by Dolce and Gabbana.
Speaker 1: All the judges were Dolce, the winning the winning teams
Speaker 1: wore Dolce and every single talent portion that they had,
Speaker 1: and the winners got a prize and like mentorship from
Speaker 1: Dulce and Gabbana, which means they're trying to buy back
Speaker 1: They're like credibility with marginalized audiences, essentially, because there has
Speaker 1: been over a decade long's worth of like offenses from
Speaker 1: Dolce and Gabana specifically that have been very raised cyst
Speaker 1: against Chinese people, very racist against Black people, like very
Speaker 1: like exploitative, homophobic, even like every kind of um as
Speaker 1: Travel would say, and as Travel would say, all the
Speaker 1: opias and isms, um how that's so gross. That's gross
Speaker 1: and makes me feel really bad that, like where's the integrity,
Speaker 1: Like where's the person who should have said, um no,
Speaker 1: we're not taking your fucking money. You know, Deshaun always
Speaker 1: wears Dolce custom Dolce looks on the show, so I
Speaker 1: wasn't hugely surprised that appeared. There was like a little
Speaker 1: bit of a relationship there, but like I'll bet you,
Speaker 1: I bet you Law made it happen. Like Law has
Speaker 1: talked about how he still works with Dolce and stuff
Speaker 1: um on in interviews before me is making like a
Speaker 1: very concentrated, almost like pop cultural blitz. Greup right now,
Speaker 1: because I don't know if you were really aware of this,
Speaker 1: but they dressed the entire Courtney Kardashian Travis Barker way
Speaker 1: in a way. Yeah, they did all of the looks
Speaker 1: for all the Kardashians for the whole wedding weekend in
Speaker 1: a way where it almost looked like a campaign. So
Speaker 1: they're really like they are trying to use their money
Speaker 1: to just buy their way back into pop culture's good graces,
Speaker 1: and it's work. I mean, they're never going to go away.
Speaker 1: I mean in fashion specifically, they are an iconic fashion house.
Speaker 1: That's it's that's always been true. So you know, it's
Speaker 1: not surprising to me that a lot of people are
Speaker 1: going to cross the lines and go ahead and wear it.
Speaker 1: But it's like, yeah, it kind of sucks for everyone
Speaker 1: in the show though, because I'll bet you there are
Speaker 1: people on the show that really hated that and didn't
Speaker 1: want to do it, but they have no say, because
Speaker 1: it means they don't have a job. But like Jamila
Speaker 1: like that with everything she stands for. I mean, like, girl,
Speaker 1: we're rooting for you. But I was like, what, get
Speaker 1: the dull j off the screen. I'm not watching that.
Speaker 1: But you know which faggot I was watching? As I
Speaker 1: said before, and as I said, I think last episode,
Speaker 1: I'm having like a You and McGregor renaissance. And when
Speaker 1: I watched Down with Love with our friend La La
Speaker 1: last week, she asked if I'd ever seen I Love
Speaker 1: You Philip Morris, and I hadn't. Have you seen it?
Speaker 1: I watched it like when it came out ages ago.
Speaker 1: I watched it for the first time this weekend, and
Speaker 1: love it's pretty funny. It is now my it's like
Speaker 1: my favorite gay love story and like that kind of
Speaker 1: joking but also kind of not um if I don't
Speaker 1: know how I missed it when it first came out
Speaker 1: came out in two thousand nine, but um, I didn't know,
Speaker 1: like it's based on a true story. I thought the
Speaker 1: romance between you and and Jim Carey was so sweet
Speaker 1: and like adorable, the scene where they're dancing together in
Speaker 1: their prison cell, and I loved how just fucking gay.
Speaker 1: It's really gay, like it was, It's really gay. And
Speaker 1: you know what, it reminded me. It reminded me that
Speaker 1: gay people are so much more interesting than straight every
Speaker 1: single time. And also this, you know, for those at
Speaker 1: home being like, but I was played by two straight people.
Speaker 1: First of all, allegedly. Second of all, we we have.
Speaker 1: First of all, I don't. Second of all, like the
Speaker 1: rose doom you rule is very important, and the rose
Speaker 1: doom you rule goes as follows, which is, if a
Speaker 1: straight man plays gay in anything, he has to take
Speaker 1: it up the butt in the first five minutes of
Speaker 1: the thing, and in this movie, it is taken up
Speaker 1: the butt very quickly. I would not say that that's
Speaker 1: you said that to me. You said that to me
Speaker 1: very crystal clear. I think we were talking. We were
Speaker 1: we were talking about in the first five minutes of Halls,
Speaker 1: literally that which also stars in the first five minutes
Speaker 1: of Halls, in which also stars you and McGregor, he
Speaker 1: gets fucked in the ass within the first minutes. And
Speaker 1: so I do believe, you know what, I believe that
Speaker 1: if an actor has at one point played a role
Speaker 1: in which they got fucked in the ass, on screen.
Speaker 1: It's okay for them to play gay forever. Just kidding,
Speaker 1: but I love you. Philip Morris two thousand nine. Two
Speaker 1: nine was like a different time. This is back when
Speaker 1: you know, men were still playing trans women and like
Speaker 1: representation whatever. But it's just like a fun gay movie.
Speaker 1: It's a really sweet, weird, funny gay love story and
Speaker 1: I had a great time watching it, and it gets
Speaker 1: something that is like my favorite thing in gay ship,
Speaker 1: which is gay people that are despicable, like gay people
Speaker 1: that are more Yes, my favorite favorite people are bad.
Speaker 1: Gay people can be bad, and I love a movie
Speaker 1: that acknowledges that queer people can be imperfect, be gay,
Speaker 1: do exactly exactly exactly. When we started being friends. There's
Speaker 1: a lot of things that I pressured you into engaging with,
Speaker 1: and I do think that Housewives is one of Housewives
Speaker 1: is maybe the most concrete example, because there are a
Speaker 1: lot of people in my life telling me to watch
Speaker 1: Housewives and I did not listen to them until a
Speaker 1: one Rose Dambu was like, no, no, no, real deal,
Speaker 1: this is what you should do, and you gave me
Speaker 1: a lot of really good um. I think, honestly, Housewives
Speaker 1: is a very intimidating franchise to overcome because there's so
Speaker 1: much of it, and you gave me, you know, an
Speaker 1: idea of how to start, and I think that was
Speaker 1: what was really helped. Yes, I I think if you
Speaker 1: were going to start a Housewives journey and listen, I'm
Speaker 1: not anyone out there that they need to do that
Speaker 1: because it is something that that will rule your life
Speaker 1: and if not ruined, yes, rule and ruined. But if
Speaker 1: you are interested, it is I think important to figure
Speaker 1: out which franchise you will vibe with the most, and
Speaker 1: then from there, what is the right season or era
Speaker 1: of that franchise to start with, because I don't think
Speaker 1: it's true that you can just like not for everyone
Speaker 1: at least, I don't think it's true that you should
Speaker 1: pick a season and start at the beginning. Although I
Speaker 1: will say I think to me, the best Housewives franchises
Speaker 1: are ones that I can go back to the first
Speaker 1: season and it's good from the beginning. But I know
Speaker 1: that it's not true with every city. Yeah, and and
Speaker 1: Rose and I are going to talk about, you know, uh,
Speaker 1: the season's the franchises that we do watch and like,
Speaker 1: what makes them unique or thematically interesting or whatever. But
Speaker 1: I do think that the first season of New York
Speaker 1: is exactly what you described, just this sublime, completely perfect
Speaker 1: kind of era of TV that you can watch over
Speaker 1: and over again. I think the first four seasons of
Speaker 1: New York are just like a there's a lot of
Speaker 1: ways to do it, but like I think, if you
Speaker 1: watched the first four seasons of Seasons of New York,
Speaker 1: it's like a perfect crash pad into the world that
Speaker 1: is real Housewives. Yes, and there have been multiple eras
Speaker 1: of Real Housewives of New York. I think there have
Speaker 1: been eras like of the franchise in and of itself,
Speaker 1: Like there was a time when these shows were very
Speaker 1: like small and scrappy and like about these people's real lives,
Speaker 1: and then they crossed a certain threshold where these women
Speaker 1: were famous because they were housewives, but in a way
Speaker 1: that the show never really addressed because it would be
Speaker 1: breaking the four wall. And now we're in an era
Speaker 1: of the fourth wall has been broken a little bit,
Speaker 1: and I think every iteration of housewives, every city deals
Speaker 1: with that in its own ways. I think probably the
Speaker 1: way we see it happening now the most is when um,
Speaker 1: a cast member has some kind of real life legal
Speaker 1: drama and that's how the real world becomes part of
Speaker 1: real housewives. Um. So it's it's just very interesting to
Speaker 1: see how this has all changed. And you know, like
Speaker 1: this is an entire like area of pop culture. There
Speaker 1: have been books written about it. There's so many Housewives
Speaker 1: podcasts and like and ours is really trying to not
Speaker 1: be one. We're sorry for all the Housewives recaps, like, look,
Speaker 1: but I think we do like we do pretty um
Speaker 1: spare sparely, sparingly. Obviously, right now, the main focus of
Speaker 1: Housewives is Beverley Hills. I think like Beverly Hills is
Speaker 1: in a way the crown jewel of housewives because I
Speaker 1: think it has I think New York has seated that
Speaker 1: spot and Beverly Hills is the one that yeah, she
Speaker 1: she is the girl. Um and it's certainly the one
Speaker 1: airing right now that people seem to be the most
Speaker 1: interested in, also largely because of the real life and
Speaker 1: I think New York and Beverly Hills are kind of
Speaker 1: there are two examples of Housewives that are very different
Speaker 1: in like execution, but like, I think they are kind
Speaker 1: of the best of the best in terms of cast members,
Speaker 1: in terms of drama in terms of like seasons, long
Speaker 1: longevity of like what makes the show is good. But
Speaker 1: I think to kind of differential. I think it's important
Speaker 1: to differentiate them because, first of all, the girls in
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills make the girls in New York look like
Speaker 1: like very like you know, just like poor almost, but
Speaker 1: like the New York girls are socialites, and they're very
Speaker 1: grounded in the reality of being socialites, of getting very
Speaker 1: drunk out at night and like engaging in antics that
Speaker 1: way and finding drama that way. York. New York is
Speaker 1: simply more fun and Beverly Hills is more Yeah, New
Speaker 1: York is a little more human. New York has a
Speaker 1: little more wit. I think a kind of classic New
Speaker 1: York wit is injected in the show, specifically with Bethany,
Speaker 1: who is kind of the narrator of the act of
Speaker 1: the whole show for all the seasons that she's in
Speaker 1: UM and I think she really is such a stronghold
Speaker 1: for what that show stands for. And if you don't
Speaker 1: know who Bethany is, she's just kind of like, I mean,
Speaker 1: I don't even know how to describe her. She's kind
Speaker 1: of just a psychotic, like amazing clap clapbacker who is.
Speaker 1: She's very good at crystallizing exactly what's going on and
Speaker 1: dictating it. There's there's really no bullshit. And that's why
Speaker 1: Bethany is so great on how Sizes because she says
Speaker 1: exactly what she thinks at all, and she's so relatable
Speaker 1: but all so an egomaniac, so it makes her like
Speaker 1: very manic and like make bad decisions sometimes we're like
Speaker 1: in Beverly Hills, it's Lisa vander Pump right, you know,
Speaker 1: and her objectivity compared to like Bethany's is like opulence,
Speaker 1: not being relatable, being very like proper and having a
Speaker 1: kind of air about her that's all about like class elitism, pompousness.
Speaker 1: Like I think that I don't know. I think those
Speaker 1: two as like archetypes for each franchise, like set you
Speaker 1: up for what to expect from like the rest of
Speaker 1: the show. Well, it's interesting how every franchise has someone
Speaker 1: who is kind of clearly the protagonist um or like
Speaker 1: the show is centered around them and their social circle,
Speaker 1: and it's usually like that the show started that way
Speaker 1: and then kind of spun out as new cast members
Speaker 1: came in and out, um like rounding out, what I
Speaker 1: would say is the trio of the best Housewives iterations
Speaker 1: would be Atlanta. I think Atlanta, New York, and Beverly
Speaker 1: Hills are top three, and so like, in the early
Speaker 1: days of Atlanta, I would say, you know, Nini was
Speaker 1: really the protagonist of the show, and I do think
Speaker 1: that Candy eventually became that, although at times it was
Speaker 1: also kind of cynthia Um. But then like you go
Speaker 1: and look at Beverly Hills, and like Kyle has always
Speaker 1: been the protagonist of Beverly Hills and like continues to
Speaker 1: be even though she's fucking boring. But you know, in
Speaker 1: the early seasons, everything was very much from her point
Speaker 1: of view, and she was the one who had family
Speaker 1: drama because her sister was on the show. Her other
Speaker 1: sister is on the show now, And that is when
Speaker 1: Housewives is at its best, is when it's not um
Speaker 1: drama between two people who like have become best friends
Speaker 1: for TV and like it's being fabricated between them, but
Speaker 1: real life, interpersonal drama that is finding its way on
Speaker 1: a TV because there are cameras around. Like That's that's
Speaker 1: one reason why I think the early seasons of New
Speaker 1: Jersey are so good. Is because and continue to be
Speaker 1: is because a lot of the people on the show
Speaker 1: are related, and so you're seeing like real family ship
Speaker 1: playing out on this. You know this under these insane
Speaker 1: you know, Truman show circumstances, you stole my goddamn house
Speaker 1: um a Beverly Hills reference to To go back to
Speaker 1: the Nini of it all, it must be said that
Speaker 1: Nini helped Housewives as an as an entire franchise transcend
Speaker 1: in the culture. Like her as a meme queen and
Speaker 1: her completely like irreplicable ability to grab attention from literally
Speaker 1: any scene is like brought Housewives as a whole to
Speaker 1: another level, which is why Nini is the highest paid
Speaker 1: house I've in the history of Housewives. And it's also
Speaker 1: why nine when she had her very public like breakup
Speaker 1: with Bravo, she said to Andy, no one knew who
Speaker 1: you were until they knew who I was, so you
Speaker 1: better put some respect on my name. And I was like, period, Mama,
Speaker 1: it's true. And you know what I realized recently is
Speaker 1: that um, like in the way that the that the
Speaker 1: fourth wall is being broken, that's even now started to
Speaker 1: apply to Andy too, because he only ever showed up
Speaker 1: for the reunions. And in the last episode I saw
Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills the current season, because I'm still behind,
Speaker 1: they were showing pictures from his baby shower, and that's
Speaker 1: not something that would have happened a couple of seasons ago.
Speaker 1: They would not have referenced him outside of the row.
Speaker 1: The breaking of the fourth wall is very interesting to me,
Speaker 1: but I think that the times that it does happen,
Speaker 1: I do, it does become more riveting to me. Like,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think a little bit about um, the
Speaker 1: second season of Beverly Hills, which is, you know, one
Speaker 1: of the hardest seasons to watch but also one of
Speaker 1: the most dramatic. We're in Taylor Armstrong's but yes, which again,
Speaker 1: like this is another way that like Housewives like transcends
Speaker 1: through culture. And then we say things that we didn't
Speaker 1: even know come from Housewives, which I didn't know and
Speaker 1: now we said it comes from the second season of
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills. Ala Camille Grammar, who used to be one
Speaker 1: of my favorite housewives of all time until she had
Speaker 1: such a very public um meltdown about how much she
Speaker 1: loves Brent Kavanaugh. Um. But anyways, I was gonna say
Speaker 1: when Taylor Armstrong is very corrupt and physically and emotionally
Speaker 1: abusive husband commits suicide. It was like the breaking up
Speaker 1: the fourth wall to them, Max, and you know, what
Speaker 1: happens in that season is very unfortunate. Yet I remember
Speaker 1: as a viewer being like, oh my god, and I
Speaker 1: felt milarly with Denise's season. Um when Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, bravo,
Speaker 1: which if you don't know the context for that, there's
Speaker 1: an iconic moment where Denise basically is like she's basically
Speaker 1: over filming, and she says Bravo, Bravo, Bravo, as if
Speaker 1: like saying bravo means that you are no, you can't,
Speaker 1: you can't use the footage anymore. Um. And apparently that
Speaker 1: comes that originates from Lisa vander Pump who used to
Speaker 1: do it in early seasons of Beverly Hills when she
Speaker 1: was like in her makeup trailer and she wasn't ready
Speaker 1: for camera. She'd be like, no, no, no, you can't
Speaker 1: film yet. Bravo, Bravo, Bravo. UM. But Denise, who had
Speaker 1: only been on the show for like two seasons, thinks
Speaker 1: that she's good enough to use it when the girls
Speaker 1: in actuality apparently never never break character like that. What
Speaker 1: do you think of the breaking character of at all?
Speaker 1: Do you think they're playing characters or do you think
Speaker 1: they're playing themselves or both? How I think that there
Speaker 1: is a spectrum of it. There are some people who
Speaker 1: I absolutely believe cannot not be who they are, Like
Speaker 1: someone like Teresa Jude Ice, who is you would look
Speaker 1: at the things she does and you would think, like,
Speaker 1: this is this, This is like so crazy that no
Speaker 1: one could make this up. And I really do believe
Speaker 1: that she is just that kind of insane person. And
Speaker 1: like she you know, she flipped the table in the
Speaker 1: first season of Real Housewives of New Jersey, Like that's
Speaker 1: just who she is. I'm sure as the years have
Speaker 1: gone by she has learned that it is better for
Speaker 1: her to give into her impulses because it makes good TV.
Speaker 1: Like I think that becomes a slippery slope. So I
Speaker 1: do think that. I'm sure there are some people who
Speaker 1: come on the show, and it's usually I think the
Speaker 1: you know, friends of or like New Housewives who like
Speaker 1: only last season, who come on and think they can
Speaker 1: do a bit, play a character, and it doesn't work
Speaker 1: out because we like the Housewives who really are seemed
Speaker 1: genuine in even if that's like in a bad way.
Speaker 1: But I would say that for the most part, everyone
Speaker 1: is performing a heightened version of themselves, and like this
Speaker 1: is something we've talked about, like in our own lives,
Speaker 1: like something that we do on a much smaller scale
Speaker 1: on social media. These women are doing on a much
Speaker 1: bigger scale on TV. And I think, like I think
Speaker 1: Ramona to me is the most crystal clear example of
Speaker 1: someone who literally cannot be anything other than herself, Like
Speaker 1: she is so horrible and says such flagrantly racist things
Speaker 1: on camera. Um. Mary Cosby of Salt Lake is also
Speaker 1: like that, where it's like this woman does not care
Speaker 1: if the cameras are here or not. She's not performing
Speaker 1: this is she is just an asshole. Honestly. I think
Speaker 1: Kim Richards is kind of that Kathy at Kathy Hilton
Speaker 1: as well. I think they're they're very themselves, And I
Speaker 1: think Kim is very kind of the opposite of Kyle,
Speaker 1: who is very aware of the cameras, very aware of
Speaker 1: strategy how she appears on camera. Um, but Kyle is
Speaker 1: very good at it. She's good at making herself feel human.
Speaker 1: And you know, the door and the girl next door.
Speaker 1: Like she thinks of herself as the girl next door.
Speaker 1: She thinks she's like the beating heart of the show.
Speaker 1: I think she's kind of a boring cast member. But
Speaker 1: she is boring, but I think that's part of I
Speaker 1: think that's part of what works is she's always involved
Speaker 1: in the drama, but she but not enough to the
Speaker 1: point where she really burns bridges. The only time we
Speaker 1: saw that was with her and Lisa vander Pump which
Speaker 1: and look who won, Like Kyle was the one who
Speaker 1: stayed on the show and Lisa left. Although you know
Speaker 1: you can you can argue about whether or not that's winning,
Speaker 1: Like maybe Lisa once she got to leave, she got
Speaker 1: to be the one who left, like on her terms.
Speaker 1: I think Lisa really captured what it means to be
Speaker 1: a great housewife. I think she has a lot of qualities.
Speaker 1: What do you think makes like a good housewife? Someone
Speaker 1: who is aware that they're on television in both a
Speaker 1: good way in a bad way, Like someone who knows
Speaker 1: that they're on TV so they are amping things up,
Speaker 1: and also someone who knows they're on TV and so
Speaker 1: they're not going to be like an absolute total fucking mess,
Speaker 1: Like I want you to forget the cameras are there sometimes,
Speaker 1: but like for the most part, you know, you know
Speaker 1: that they're they're like, um, lou Anne, Yes, lu Anetomy
Speaker 1: is lou Antony is God to your housewife because so
Speaker 1: much of what she does on camera is performative. She
Speaker 1: is a meme of herself, but she doesn't let that
Speaker 1: get in the way of being a mess. Like we've
Speaker 1: seen Luanne fall down, We've seen two of her marriages
Speaker 1: fall apart, We've seen her like go to prison, deal
Speaker 1: with her drinking problems, Like she knows the value of
Speaker 1: being a mess on TV, and she I think tries
Speaker 1: to fix it all the time. And when she tries
Speaker 1: to fix it, she makes it worse. And I and
Speaker 1: and a lot of times, you know, when it's not
Speaker 1: very dark, when it's like more in the funny periods,
Speaker 1: like it is like it's it's what makes her, it's
Speaker 1: what makes housewives in general so fun most of the time,
Speaker 1: which is like camp in its purest form, camp that's
Speaker 1: like not aware of itself. And Luanne has no idea
Speaker 1: that when she says eggs a la France, like she
Speaker 1: doesn't know that what she's saying is ridiculous, but she's
Speaker 1: saying it for the camera, you know what I mean, Like, yeah,
Speaker 1: it's so And you know, in recent years, I think
Speaker 1: she has been more aware of that. Like I think
Speaker 1: her whole you know, Cabaret moment is her leaning into
Speaker 1: the camp of it all and playing up the character.
Speaker 1: But you know, she's still she still has like the
Speaker 1: the fact that she's a fucking nightmare to balance that
Speaker 1: out every day of my life. I regret not seeing
Speaker 1: the Countess in Friends Live. I I I know we
Speaker 1: if it comes back, we need to think she's going
Speaker 1: to come back. She'll come back with with Sonia, Sonia
Speaker 1: doing a dance where her top accidentally falls off or whatever,
Speaker 1: because now she and Sonja are doing a spinoff show
Speaker 1: that's like the simple that sounds insane but also is
Speaker 1: a perfect show idea. We have to talk about the
Speaker 1: fact that the best part of any Housewive season is
Speaker 1: when they trip. It's the girls trip, and which is
Speaker 1: why Ultimate Girls Trip the show was so good because
Speaker 1: it combined that like vacation thing with also what we've
Speaker 1: been talking about, like the breaking the fourth aspect and
Speaker 1: Housewives All Stars version yes, but there have been some
Speaker 1: truly iconic trips, and obviously the best one ever Scary
Speaker 1: Scary Island, I mean debatable scary Island. Yeah, I think
Speaker 1: it's scary Island. What do you think is better? I mean,
Speaker 1: oh god, there the Beverly Hills takes some really trip
Speaker 1: the Berkshires. There's a lot of Berkshire's episodes, sure, but
Speaker 1: but Kelly ben Simone versus Bethany Go to Sleep Like
Speaker 1: Kelly ben Simone is someone who you absolutely know that
Speaker 1: she is a total fucking psycho and does not even
Speaker 1: realize that there are cameras really, like, I mean a
Speaker 1: lot of them are really like a lot of the housewives,
Speaker 1: especially in New York Housewives like operate at like a
Speaker 1: fourth grade reading level, Like they really really cannot Like
Speaker 1: Kelly really like does herself dirty over and over again
Speaker 1: because like a lot of times. And something that's kind
Speaker 1: of hard to watch about the show sometimes and specific
Speaker 1: to Kelly is that she's so clearly doesn't know what's
Speaker 1: going on sometimes, like she like is actually having such
Speaker 1: a hard time following why she's mad about something or
Speaker 1: justifying She has no idea how to debate, She has
Speaker 1: no idea how to back in argument, like they just
Speaker 1: have no idea. A lot of these housewives, like Kelly,
Speaker 1: have no idea how to navigate what should be extremely
Speaker 1: simple moments of conflict resolution in human relationships. Um. And
Speaker 1: because none of them are in therapy. Well, actually some
Speaker 1: of the New York girls are in therapy um these days,
Speaker 1: because like therapy has you know, become a little more
Speaker 1: mains mainstream quote unquote. But like in early seasons, like
Speaker 1: no house in early seasons of the show, no housewives
Speaker 1: are in therapy, and it makes them all really really messy. Um.
Speaker 1: I'd be curious to know actually what your thoughts, what
Speaker 1: your thoughts are about Housewives when it started in the
Speaker 1: golden seasons of New York, Beverly Hills and Atlanta, and
Speaker 1: then what it feels like now. Yeah. I do think
Speaker 1: a lot of its centers around the fact that they
Speaker 1: weren't they weren't famous, and there wasn't the culture around
Speaker 1: Bravo yet where they were doing Watch what Happens Live
Speaker 1: and they were like doing like spawn, and that there
Speaker 1: was a whole culture and economy around Housewives. So it
Speaker 1: was really all about the show itself and they were
Speaker 1: not celebrities outside of it, and so the drama was
Speaker 1: very much focused on what happened on the show. And
Speaker 1: now I think the drama plays out in so many
Speaker 1: different ways, Like these girls are fighting on social media,
Speaker 1: they're like going to prison, they're like, you know, in
Speaker 1: huge legal battles like Erica Jayne or like gen Shaw.
Speaker 1: They're getting like magazine covers, or you know, like they're
Speaker 1: they're having successes that like are in the real world.
Speaker 1: It does kind of feel like Housewives is like the
Speaker 1: reality show version of the m c U. And like
Speaker 1: at the beginning, there were a couple independent movies that
Speaker 1: people liked watching, and now it is a sprawling multiverse
Speaker 1: that has become this cultural monolith, and that is like
Speaker 1: it is. It is like actually impossible to not engage
Speaker 1: with at least some of it. And honestly, like on
Speaker 1: the topic of like then and now that some the
Speaker 1: part of this multiverse that I'm really not pleased with
Speaker 1: and yet I cannot stop talking about because it is
Speaker 1: very interesting to me is the way that for the
Speaker 1: first time in Housewives history, they're all talking about racism,
Speaker 1: you know what I mean, Because the show, every single
Speaker 1: franchise has been almost agnostic of like any sort of
Speaker 1: discussion of like race or like justice or like you know,
Speaker 1: like there, it's very antithetical to woke culture. And you
Speaker 1: can tell that the producers produce around politics and produce
Speaker 1: around the fact that they're all Republicans, right, and and
Speaker 1: and cast around them because for a very long time,
Speaker 1: the different franchises were exactly exactly And now they're realizing
Speaker 1: that diversity is a thing, um, and they're casting diversely,
Speaker 1: and that of course means that these women are going
Speaker 1: to have conversations about it. I honestly think it started
Speaker 1: with UM Carol's Seasons of New York, which took which
Speaker 1: were you know, the Trump election era, UM, the era
Speaker 1: where luanded blackface and also some offensive things about indigenous
Speaker 1: people in this country and then that all and then
Speaker 1: that went into like diverse casting. Then it went into
Speaker 1: you know, the twenties that were in now UM. And
Speaker 1: it's really hard to watch these women have these conversations
Speaker 1: because the majority of them have no freaking idea what
Speaker 1: they're talking about. And I don't really want to hear
Speaker 1: them talk about it because a lot of them are
Speaker 1: like disseminating misinformation. Yeah, and like I mean, there's like
Speaker 1: a there's a problematic part of this in that a
Speaker 1: lot a lot of what is so great about Housewives
Speaker 1: is the escapism of it, and so I feel bad
Speaker 1: when when one of those moments happens. I'm like, oh, like,
Speaker 1: this is not what I want out of the show,
Speaker 1: Like I don't want to see what's happening in the
Speaker 1: real world being reflected here. But like, I guess it
Speaker 1: should be like these women have so much insane privilege
Speaker 1: and that you know that should be um disrupted, Um,
Speaker 1: they should have to reckon with it. But it's it's
Speaker 1: like not, it's never going to be a real house
Speaker 1: live show. Is not the right circumstances to get a
Speaker 1: psychopath like Ramona Singer to reckon with the fact that
Speaker 1: she's racist. And I still don't understand why Ramona has
Speaker 1: a job like to this day, like women have been
Speaker 1: fired for things that are way worse than what Ramona
Speaker 1: does on an episode by episode basis something I'll also
Speaker 1: say that's really ugly about how these women handle conversations
Speaker 1: like this is now they're figuring out how much they
Speaker 1: can weaponize social media or weaponize woke culture to prove
Speaker 1: points or to get what they want. I'm waiting into
Speaker 1: very murky territories here. So Jen Shaw, is this really
Speaker 1: really horrible cast member of Salt Lake City, a franchise
Speaker 1: you don't watch yet. All you need to know is
Speaker 1: that she is like Ramona level horrible destructive. I know,
Speaker 1: I know who she is. I watched I watched half
Speaker 1: of the first season. Okay, she's a bad person. She's
Speaker 1: a bad person to a lot of people and to
Speaker 1: everyone in her life. And now she has had a
Speaker 1: huge legal battle that everyone knows about, where she's basically embezzled,
Speaker 1: you know, a billion dollars from like disabled people, old people,
Speaker 1: just like m vulnerable vulnerable classes of people, and so
Speaker 1: on the reunion of the most recent season, she went
Speaker 1: out of her way so many times to say, and
Speaker 1: I shoot you not. This is not an exaggeration. She
Speaker 1: was like, if you don't believe me, you don't support
Speaker 1: women of color. That's literally what this woman is is saying.
Speaker 1: And she like, it's it's actually that rudimentary and baseline
Speaker 1: stupid um. She is like flattening like what it means
Speaker 1: to be a brown person in this country to her
Speaker 1: advantage to like circumnavigate responsibility around something really horrible that
Speaker 1: she did that she is not copying to and like,
Speaker 1: you know, everything that happened to her family in the
Speaker 1: wake of all this, every that happened to her kids
Speaker 1: and her husband, like that I'm taking out of this,
Speaker 1: Like that is horrible and no one should ever go
Speaker 1: through it. But like to just say, point blank, like
Speaker 1: support me because I'm a brown person, like come on.
Speaker 1: And then Jenny also in this season, did a version
Speaker 1: of the same thing, and it's just like I I
Speaker 1: actually like don't want to hear these women use the
Speaker 1: word gaslighting anymore, which you haven't watched the most recent
Speaker 1: of Beverly Hills. But Kyle tries to use the word
Speaker 1: gaslighting at least three different times, and each time she
Speaker 1: used it and probably has no idea it has no idea,
Speaker 1: and she but she knows the cultural power of a
Speaker 1: word like gaslighting and how it transcends on Twitter, and
Speaker 1: so she's able to say it knowing that there will
Speaker 1: be people who will support her or jen Sha or
Speaker 1: whoever blindly because they've been you know, conditioned to support
Speaker 1: people that support woke culture. So to speed, it's crazy.
Speaker 1: If you were a housewife, what would your tagline be
Speaker 1: maybe she's born with it. Maybe it's childhood trauma, it's
Speaker 1: it's it's work, it's work being workshops. What about you.
Speaker 1: I may not be a real woman, but I am
Speaker 1: a real housewife. No, no, no, no, no no no,
Speaker 1: I do think. I do think. The all time best
Speaker 1: one is Bethany saying I may not be a housewife,
Speaker 1: but I am real. Like, that's so good. Bethany is
Speaker 1: so good at doing this specific thing, and I hope
Speaker 1: that she comes back. Although have you have you been
Speaker 1: fed her on tickto God? I have the algorithm has
Speaker 1: not finished me in that way. Every every time she
Speaker 1: comes up, it's like a scare because she, I guess,
Speaker 1: is like trying to be a beauty TikToker, and so
Speaker 1: it's always her really close to the screen putting on
Speaker 1: I makeup, and it's really frightening. I mean, I love Bethany,
Speaker 1: but yeah, no, she really cannot use social media to
Speaker 1: save her life, not properly. I love Bethany too, but
Speaker 1: I love her on Housewives all the other things she's
Speaker 1: tried to do. You know, be strong is great. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you know what, that's great. She's a humanitarian whatever. But
Speaker 1: like that Hrio Max show she did was kind of dumb.
Speaker 1: Her podcast. I listened to one episode of it. I
Speaker 1: was like, Nope, I say, I like her very specifically
Speaker 1: in the context of housewives, and that's where I want,
Speaker 1: know what, And I do hope that that is actually
Speaker 1: true for me for every housewife. To this day, I
Speaker 1: do not follow a single real housewife on Instagram, not one. Oh.
Speaker 1: I follow a couple of them, but it is very specific.
Speaker 1: I do not give out a housewives follow unless I'm
Speaker 1: truly committed. I think the only housewives I currently follow
Speaker 1: our lou Ann and Sonja. I used to follow Sonja,
Speaker 1: but but I unfollowed. Yeah, I just I only want
Speaker 1: them in the show. Also, just side no um that
Speaker 1: that housewive tagline, I may not be a housewife? Was
Speaker 1: that the season where there was a season of New
Speaker 1: York where every single cast member either was not a
Speaker 1: wife or didn't have a house because remember like Tinsley
Speaker 1: like was homeless for a while, and then well that's
Speaker 1: the thing. That's the thing with New York especially is
Speaker 1: that all of them are poor. Now, yes, that's why
Speaker 1: this most recent season of New York was such a
Speaker 1: flop and it's like you're gonna go to the Turkish
Speaker 1: baths them. It's all fake, like they're all they all
Speaker 1: have like judgments against them and they're not good at
Speaker 1: stoking conflict anymore. And then they put in Ebony k
Speaker 1: Willie Ms, who is trying to ground them all in
Speaker 1: a reality but just it just didn't work. And I'm
Speaker 1: I'm I'm just I'm glad that New York is being
Speaker 1: rebooted a little. It'll be interesting to see how that happens,
Speaker 1: because I don't I don't know if you kind of
Speaker 1: like read in depth the interview with Andy Cohen about
Speaker 1: what they're doing for the virgins, what what for the virgins?
Speaker 1: They are doing I think two new versions of House
Speaker 1: Lives of New York, which is one will be rebooted
Speaker 1: with a different cast and then one will be kind
Speaker 1: of like a spinoff with the the Legacy stars. And
Speaker 1: I don't know, maybe that's the Sonja and Luanne show,
Speaker 1: Maybe that's the spot that that's filling, or maybe there
Speaker 1: will be another thing. It's a really good solved. I mean,
Speaker 1: you have probably said, like if not to me on
Speaker 1: this show, like fire all of them, like you really
Speaker 1: wanted them all gone. Yeah, I want them all gone.
Speaker 1: I want to start from scratch, Start from scratch. Are
Speaker 1: you watching any of the new franchises? Have you watched
Speaker 1: Dubai It? No, I want to watch Dubai I love
Speaker 1: Salt Lake City slash Salt Lake City honestly came very
Speaker 1: close to dethroning Beverly Hills as my favorite franchise. It
Speaker 1: was that good and remains that good. But I think
Speaker 1: it needs a little more time before it becomes that iconic.
Speaker 1: You know, um, what about you? I I haven't watched
Speaker 1: any of the newer ones. You know, Potomac seems like
Speaker 1: the big, the biggest like blind spot for me because
Speaker 1: I really have tried, and I just can't find someone
Speaker 1: in it to latch onto to make me feel invested.
Speaker 1: And I've tried like the different ways people told me, like, oh,
Speaker 1: skip the first season, skip the second season, But every
Speaker 1: time I've tried it just like haven't found the right
Speaker 1: entry point. So I say start with season five. And
Speaker 1: the thing with Housewives is I already watched way too
Speaker 1: much Housewives. I really don't need to watch more Housewives.
Speaker 1: But you know, the next time I'm home in Florida
Speaker 1: and I'm at my mom's house and there's a marathon
Speaker 1: on TV, I absolutely will just tune in. And that's
Speaker 1: the great thing about housewives is you can just plug
Speaker 1: in at really any moment and there will always be
Speaker 1: a recap. You will always get immediately like what's going on?
Speaker 1: Who hates who? And that is beautiful. Nicki Minaje mediating
Speaker 1: the Potomic reunion was so amazing and it exceeded expectations.
Speaker 1: It was so lack of doodle, like not what I
Speaker 1: expected to happen. Um, but damn, they really committed to
Speaker 1: that and she was so good. I think, you know,
Speaker 1: if I were to give prescriptions for Potomac or honestly
Speaker 1: just all the franchises that I watch, obviously you need
Speaker 1: to watch all of Salt Lake City, and I think
Speaker 1: it's really easy to get into it, um for any
Speaker 1: virgin to Salt Lake starting from episode one. With Potomac,
Speaker 1: I think from episode five, and then watch the current,
Speaker 1: which I think is only three seasons total. Um. That is,
Speaker 1: when there's a fight that happens between Monique and Candice,
Speaker 1: that sets a whole new wave of drama and motion,
Speaker 1: and I think establishes the relationships between all the characters
Speaker 1: very easily. Um, New York, I think it's watched the
Speaker 1: first four, then I think I don't know, and then
Speaker 1: you get into Sonya. I think Sonia has like season five,
Speaker 1: or say, but I think you skipped the seasons with Heather. Yes,
Speaker 1: you only watch New York when Bethany's on it. That's
Speaker 1: really what it is. Yes, that is what it is. Um,
Speaker 1: but don't watch the Bethany Carroll season that has the
Speaker 1: Trump election, because that one is the worst most triggering
Speaker 1: episode of TV I have ever watched, is when they're
Speaker 1: waiting for the results of the two six election. I
Speaker 1: don't ever want to see it or think about it again. No,
Speaker 1: it was fucked up. You know, I will say the
Speaker 1: woman with the wooden leg that was not a Bethany season.
Speaker 1: Oh my god. Yeah. The only thing fake about me
Speaker 1: is this a Viva dresser, her wooden leg a viva
Speaker 1: But really, like I mean to be full circle about this, Like,
Speaker 1: I do think that the first couple of seasons of
Speaker 1: Beverly Hills are some of the best reality TV housewives period. Also,
Speaker 1: the first couple of seasons of Atlanta are incredible. But
Speaker 1: you know what, Like, I'm not going to say if
Speaker 1: you are not a person who watches Housewives again, like,
Speaker 1: I do not want to give you this disease that
Speaker 1: we have, but I hope that at least if you
Speaker 1: have decided to contract it, that these recommendations may help
Speaker 1: you do it in a safe way. This is harm reduction.
Speaker 1: Will you back next week with a discussion on the
Speaker 1: Devilwares product with comedian Nori Read so excited about that.
Speaker 1: Make sure you're wearing your Cerulean Chanel boots and tell
Speaker 1: us what you want us to talk about next, whether
Speaker 1: it's a movie, book, TV show, cultural phenomenon we want
Speaker 1: to hear from you. You can call to confess at
Speaker 1: three to three pennance. That's three to three seven three
Speaker 1: six two six to three. You can also slide into
Speaker 1: our d M s at like a virgin fore tag
Speaker 1: us comment. Please leave us a review on Apple Podcasts.
Speaker 1: It really helps us out, even if it's you know,
Speaker 1: like a little bit sassy. I'm your co host Rose
Speaker 1: Damn You, and you can find me at Rose Damn
Speaker 1: You anywhere you want on social media, and I'm Fran.
Speaker 1: You can find me at France Squishco wherever you want
Speaker 1: on social media. Please subscribe to Like a Virgin anywhere
Speaker 1: you listen to podcasts, and leave us a rating on
Speaker 1: Spotify or review on Apple Podcasts. Like a Virgin is
Speaker 1: an I Heart Radio production our producers Phoebe Unter, with
Speaker 1: support from Lindsay Hoffman, Julian Weller, Just Crane Chitch and
Speaker 1: Nikki Eatour until next week, See you later, Virgins. Bravo, Bravo, Bravo.