1 00:00:02,440 --> 00:00:05,120 Speaker 1: Hello, I'm Michael barn and I'm Scott Sasnik. On this 2 00:00:05,160 --> 00:00:07,640 Speaker 1: weekly podcast, we explore the big money issues in the 3 00:00:07,640 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: world of sports and talk to some of the biggest 4 00:00:09,600 --> 00:00:12,200 Speaker 1: players in the industry. On this show, we examine the 5 00:00:12,200 --> 00:00:15,360 Speaker 1: big money business of gaming when we speak with Jeff Freeman, 6 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:20,200 Speaker 1: President and CEO of the American Gaming Association. But first 7 00:00:20,280 --> 00:00:22,840 Speaker 1: let's look at the top stories the week. Joining us 8 00:00:23,280 --> 00:00:28,360 Speaker 1: is Bloomberg Business of Sports reporter Evan Noby Williams and Evan, 9 00:00:28,440 --> 00:00:31,720 Speaker 1: this is your story, this is your headline. Your college 10 00:00:31,720 --> 00:00:35,680 Speaker 1: football team is very worried about GOP tax reform, explained. 11 00:00:36,159 --> 00:00:39,760 Speaker 1: You guys know, I don't exaggerate. Every college team in 12 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:45,280 Speaker 1: the country right now is concerned about this GOOP tax plan. Yes, absolutely, 13 00:00:45,479 --> 00:00:48,400 Speaker 1: I believe it's every team. For the past thirty years, 14 00:00:48,720 --> 00:00:52,239 Speaker 1: colleges have exploded their spending on the backs of a 15 00:00:52,440 --> 00:00:56,640 Speaker 1: huge growth in donations meteorites, yes, but also donations. And 16 00:00:56,680 --> 00:00:59,280 Speaker 1: the way they function those donations is that they're set 17 00:00:59,320 --> 00:01:01,960 Speaker 1: up so that they're acts deductible. There's a way written 18 00:01:02,040 --> 00:01:05,240 Speaker 1: to the tax code that lets you deduct of your 19 00:01:05,280 --> 00:01:08,240 Speaker 1: donation if it's tied to a c priority. So the 20 00:01:08,280 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: way they do it, Michael As. They just say, hey, 21 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: you want football tickets, give us ten thousand dollars for 22 00:01:12,640 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 1: as a donation. Then you can buy your four seats. 23 00:01:15,680 --> 00:01:18,080 Speaker 1: You get the right at tax deduction on that donation. 24 00:01:18,720 --> 00:01:21,320 Speaker 1: You win. Obviously, they win because you're willing to spend more. 25 00:01:21,760 --> 00:01:23,759 Speaker 1: And this is kind of one of the major pillars 26 00:01:23,760 --> 00:01:26,720 Speaker 1: that's funded college athletics in the past thirty years. And 27 00:01:26,760 --> 00:01:28,840 Speaker 1: Republicans right now are threatening to take it away. And 28 00:01:28,880 --> 00:01:31,000 Speaker 1: I'm guessing these are probably then some of the most 29 00:01:31,040 --> 00:01:34,560 Speaker 1: influential people on campus. They're not just buying tickets. When 30 00:01:34,560 --> 00:01:36,640 Speaker 1: you know as well as I do, when you make 31 00:01:36,680 --> 00:01:39,039 Speaker 1: this kind of donation, maybe your name goes in the 32 00:01:39,080 --> 00:01:41,600 Speaker 1: locker room and maybe you get to talk to the 33 00:01:41,600 --> 00:01:43,520 Speaker 1: head coach of the athletics. Right you know what I've 34 00:01:43,520 --> 00:01:46,520 Speaker 1: been thinking about our offense. This isn't just about money. 35 00:01:46,520 --> 00:01:48,680 Speaker 1: It's about power and influence exactly. And that's kind of 36 00:01:48,720 --> 00:01:51,080 Speaker 1: one of the things that colleges are banking on right now. 37 00:01:51,160 --> 00:01:52,840 Speaker 1: They're hoping that the fact that a lot of these 38 00:01:52,840 --> 00:01:55,840 Speaker 1: boosters are pretty influential, maybe they have contacts in Washington, 39 00:01:55,920 --> 00:01:58,360 Speaker 1: maybe they have contacts elsewhere in the business world that 40 00:01:58,400 --> 00:02:00,280 Speaker 1: they can kind of get the word out there. You know. 41 00:02:00,320 --> 00:02:02,080 Speaker 1: One of the big things they're afraid of is this 42 00:02:02,200 --> 00:02:05,520 Speaker 1: narrative that, oh, that's just a tax that benefits the rich. 43 00:02:05,600 --> 00:02:07,960 Speaker 1: You know, these are wealthy people giving donations. Maybe they 44 00:02:07,960 --> 00:02:10,040 Speaker 1: shouldn't have a tax deduction on that. The point that 45 00:02:10,120 --> 00:02:13,000 Speaker 1: colleges are making is that no, this forms. This helps 46 00:02:13,080 --> 00:02:15,919 Speaker 1: us fund all of our scholarships. It helps us fund 47 00:02:15,919 --> 00:02:18,520 Speaker 1: the men's soccer team and the women's gymnastics team. All 48 00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,720 Speaker 1: the things that they do for their student athletes is 49 00:02:20,760 --> 00:02:23,400 Speaker 1: based on this income. And if that income stream starts 50 00:02:23,440 --> 00:02:25,600 Speaker 1: to dry up, they are very worried about what that 51 00:02:25,639 --> 00:02:27,720 Speaker 1: looks like for the future. You wrote a line here. 52 00:02:27,919 --> 00:02:31,360 Speaker 1: Take Louisiana State, for example, between the athletic department and 53 00:02:31,400 --> 00:02:36,799 Speaker 1: its foundation, the Prettial Power receives more than sixty million 54 00:02:36,960 --> 00:02:41,120 Speaker 1: dollars per year in donations tied to seat licenses, and 55 00:02:41,160 --> 00:02:44,200 Speaker 1: that now is being threatened exactly. That's that that puts 56 00:02:44,240 --> 00:02:46,079 Speaker 1: it into good perspective because a lot of people think 57 00:02:46,080 --> 00:02:49,680 Speaker 1: that college sports and college football commercialized on the back 58 00:02:49,720 --> 00:02:52,080 Speaker 1: of media rights. Well, the truth is that a lot 59 00:02:52,120 --> 00:02:53,959 Speaker 1: of schools in Louisiana State is one of them, get 60 00:02:54,000 --> 00:02:56,480 Speaker 1: more money from donations tied to seat licenses than they 61 00:02:56,480 --> 00:02:59,360 Speaker 1: get from their media rights. That's how important this pillar 62 00:02:59,440 --> 00:03:02,040 Speaker 1: of funding is for college sports, and they're very worried 63 00:03:02,040 --> 00:03:04,040 Speaker 1: they're gonna lose. You have a better feel for this 64 00:03:04,120 --> 00:03:07,880 Speaker 1: than I do. Does the chasm between have and have 65 00:03:08,040 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: not potentially grow larger if it passes the schools like Michigan, Alabama, Auburn, 66 00:03:16,480 --> 00:03:19,160 Speaker 1: these people. I'm guessing I gonna donate anyway. All Right, 67 00:03:19,200 --> 00:03:21,960 Speaker 1: I lose my deduction, but I'm going to donate because darnett, 68 00:03:21,960 --> 00:03:23,960 Speaker 1: I need to be part of this program. Then you 69 00:03:24,000 --> 00:03:26,600 Speaker 1: get to sort of that second tier where maybe the 70 00:03:26,639 --> 00:03:30,360 Speaker 1: deduction really influences whether or not I give the money. 71 00:03:30,400 --> 00:03:32,160 Speaker 1: That's a good, great question. Yeah, I mean, I mean 72 00:03:32,160 --> 00:03:34,400 Speaker 1: the big question throughout the whole thing is is how 73 00:03:34,480 --> 00:03:37,800 Speaker 1: much does this affect my donation? And the general consensus 74 00:03:37,800 --> 00:03:40,920 Speaker 1: is sure, if you're really, really rich and you just think, oh, 75 00:03:41,000 --> 00:03:42,840 Speaker 1: the price of my season tickets just went up seven, 76 00:03:43,600 --> 00:03:47,000 Speaker 1: maybe this doesn't affect your Phil's gonna still give money exactly. Yes, 77 00:03:47,080 --> 00:03:50,000 Speaker 1: But if you're a car dealer outside Winthrop and you 78 00:03:50,080 --> 00:03:52,400 Speaker 1: donate to the Winthrop basketball team or the football team 79 00:03:52,480 --> 00:03:55,760 Speaker 1: or just the athletic program and you get this tax deduction. 80 00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:59,000 Speaker 1: Suddenly that might change if the tax deduction goes away. 81 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,840 Speaker 1: Let's talk about on another topic something that you have mentioned, Evan, 82 00:04:03,200 --> 00:04:07,240 Speaker 1: about the NFL extending its commitment to play in Mexico. 83 00:04:08,200 --> 00:04:10,160 Speaker 1: It's a natural fit for the NFL. They're playing two 84 00:04:10,200 --> 00:04:12,200 Speaker 1: games there this year, both of them sold out in 85 00:04:12,280 --> 00:04:15,000 Speaker 1: less than an hour at an average price of ninety 86 00:04:15,280 --> 00:04:18,000 Speaker 1: dollars a ticket. Uh. We talk a lot about London 87 00:04:18,040 --> 00:04:20,320 Speaker 1: as as a space where the NFL is obviously growing 88 00:04:20,360 --> 00:04:23,559 Speaker 1: a lot, they continue to see business success. Mexico City 89 00:04:23,600 --> 00:04:26,159 Speaker 1: is like that as well. Um, but there's more enticing 90 00:04:26,200 --> 00:04:28,920 Speaker 1: aspects to Mexico than there are in London. Obviously, it's 91 00:04:28,920 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 1: closer to America. The time zone is in a big change. 92 00:04:31,440 --> 00:04:34,480 Speaker 1: It's the akin to playing a game in Chicago. Mexico 93 00:04:34,560 --> 00:04:37,880 Speaker 1: is a growing middle class. It's very, very very familiar 94 00:04:37,920 --> 00:04:40,480 Speaker 1: with American culture, and this is a natural fit for them. 95 00:04:40,600 --> 00:04:44,400 Speaker 1: It's Carlos slim and obvious potential investor in a team. 96 00:04:44,440 --> 00:04:46,400 Speaker 1: But was he waiting for baseball? I don't know, but 97 00:04:46,880 --> 00:04:52,200 Speaker 1: certainly the Hispanic language market in the US. If you 98 00:04:52,200 --> 00:04:55,960 Speaker 1: look at Univision, you see Telemundo. The ratings there for 99 00:04:56,040 --> 00:04:59,000 Speaker 1: some U S sports events are great, So there's a 100 00:04:59,040 --> 00:05:02,040 Speaker 1: market there to end money you could advertise at that 101 00:05:02,160 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: market seems like a likely candidate for expansion. Yes, and 102 00:05:07,040 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: the NFL is not alone here. The NBA is playing 103 00:05:08,960 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 1: games there, Major League Baseball has three games there, and 104 00:05:11,240 --> 00:05:12,880 Speaker 1: F one has a race there. There's a there's a 105 00:05:12,960 --> 00:05:15,480 Speaker 1: rush right now for professional sports to get into Mexico. 106 00:05:16,400 --> 00:05:20,200 Speaker 1: And another topic, the Players Tribune has launched the Live 107 00:05:20,279 --> 00:05:23,760 Speaker 1: Athlete Q and a show on Twitter. Let's talk about that. 108 00:05:23,839 --> 00:05:26,920 Speaker 1: What's the big thing about this and how would this 109 00:05:27,000 --> 00:05:30,159 Speaker 1: expand over to us? I always wondered what Players Tribune 110 00:05:30,600 --> 00:05:32,719 Speaker 1: is going to do next? That was always my thing. Well, 111 00:05:32,760 --> 00:05:36,799 Speaker 1: what's next? The part that I'm confused about with this, Evan, 112 00:05:37,640 --> 00:05:42,520 Speaker 1: is that athletes can do this themselves anyway. They can 113 00:05:42,560 --> 00:05:46,120 Speaker 1: do it via FaceTime, they can do it on Twitter. 114 00:05:46,960 --> 00:05:51,800 Speaker 1: They don't need a middleman. Is the platform strong enough now? 115 00:05:51,920 --> 00:05:55,839 Speaker 1: Is it a strong enough brand that players wish to 116 00:05:56,040 --> 00:06:00,880 Speaker 1: be associated with Players Tribune and share their story reason there? 117 00:06:00,960 --> 00:06:03,440 Speaker 1: I mean for some of these athletes, clearly the answer 118 00:06:03,520 --> 00:06:07,680 Speaker 1: is yes on a widespread I I don't know sure. 119 00:06:07,720 --> 00:06:09,560 Speaker 1: I think that's a great question. I mean, obviously there 120 00:06:09,560 --> 00:06:11,360 Speaker 1: are other places you can do this, read it. Ask 121 00:06:11,440 --> 00:06:13,840 Speaker 1: me anything is probably the most famous, and we've seen 122 00:06:13,880 --> 00:06:16,039 Speaker 1: athletes on that pretty consistently. I don't know if you 123 00:06:16,040 --> 00:06:18,640 Speaker 1: watched the first one with A. J. Green earlier this week. 124 00:06:19,360 --> 00:06:21,000 Speaker 1: It was a lot of kind of the questions that 125 00:06:21,000 --> 00:06:23,560 Speaker 1: you would expect fans to ask, what's your pregame ritual, 126 00:06:23,880 --> 00:06:26,800 Speaker 1: who's the hardest cornerback you ever went up to? Went 127 00:06:26,880 --> 00:06:29,360 Speaker 1: up against? Things like that, And I think players Shambune 128 00:06:29,400 --> 00:06:31,479 Speaker 1: is gonna struggle to keep this fresh. You know, you 129 00:06:31,560 --> 00:06:34,080 Speaker 1: need the questions have to be good, right, the the 130 00:06:34,120 --> 00:06:35,800 Speaker 1: athlete has to be willing to answer some of the 131 00:06:35,800 --> 00:06:38,560 Speaker 1: tougher ones. And if you keep getting the same basic 132 00:06:38,640 --> 00:06:41,360 Speaker 1: questions weekend and week out, I don't see this thing succeeding. Well, 133 00:06:41,360 --> 00:06:44,080 Speaker 1: that's what I'm worried about, because if a player asks them, 134 00:06:44,080 --> 00:06:46,120 Speaker 1: then other players like, well, what do you what are 135 00:06:46,120 --> 00:06:47,920 Speaker 1: your hobbies? Well? I like to hunt and fish. Well, 136 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:49,680 Speaker 1: I mean that's what happens all the time. And like 137 00:06:49,800 --> 00:06:52,560 Speaker 1: you said, you want to hear a little more expansion 138 00:06:52,720 --> 00:06:57,800 Speaker 1: of the topics. So compelling content our thanks to Bloomberg 139 00:06:57,839 --> 00:07:01,240 Speaker 1: Business of Sports Reporter Evan Nobi EAMs. Now, let's get 140 00:07:01,320 --> 00:07:05,680 Speaker 1: to this week's interview with American Gaming Association CEO Jeff Freeman. 141 00:07:05,839 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 1: The American Gaming Association is a national trade group representing 142 00:07:08,960 --> 00:07:12,280 Speaker 1: the two forty billion dollar US casino industry. Jeff, thanks 143 00:07:12,320 --> 00:07:14,120 Speaker 1: for taking a few minutes. It's great to be with you. 144 00:07:14,720 --> 00:07:19,960 Speaker 1: What has happened since Adam Silver told us that he 145 00:07:20,160 --> 00:07:23,080 Speaker 1: was changing his stands on sports betting and wrote that 146 00:07:23,200 --> 00:07:25,239 Speaker 1: op ed in the New York Times. What has changed 147 00:07:25,280 --> 00:07:29,280 Speaker 1: in that time period. I think everything has changed, and 148 00:07:29,760 --> 00:07:32,160 Speaker 1: unfortunately for most it's been behind the scenes, so they 149 00:07:32,200 --> 00:07:35,240 Speaker 1: haven't been able to necessarily see it and appreciate it. 150 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,840 Speaker 1: But where we are today, three years out from when 151 00:07:38,880 --> 00:07:42,280 Speaker 1: Adam Silver wrote that up ed is exponentially further down 152 00:07:42,360 --> 00:07:44,680 Speaker 1: this path than we wore at the time. We know 153 00:07:45,000 --> 00:07:48,480 Speaker 1: that the courts are moving forward, and I'm sure we'll 154 00:07:48,480 --> 00:07:51,160 Speaker 1: talk about that the Supreme Court moving forward to the 155 00:07:51,240 --> 00:07:54,280 Speaker 1: case in New Jersey Capitol Hill. There is much greater 156 00:07:54,360 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: buzz about this issue than we've seen at any point 157 00:07:57,160 --> 00:08:00,280 Speaker 1: in the past twenty five years of this failed federal band. 158 00:08:00,840 --> 00:08:03,600 Speaker 1: We've got fifteen states just in the past year loan 159 00:08:03,760 --> 00:08:07,679 Speaker 1: have either passed or introduced legislation to regulate sports betting. 160 00:08:08,040 --> 00:08:11,280 Speaker 1: This issue has moved much further Dowvait tracks and I've 161 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:14,320 Speaker 1: never been more confident that they regulated sports betting market 162 00:08:14,640 --> 00:08:16,640 Speaker 1: is right around the corner. When you say right around 163 00:08:16,680 --> 00:08:18,680 Speaker 1: the corner one year, three years, five years, I know 164 00:08:18,720 --> 00:08:20,280 Speaker 1: I'm putting you on the spot, but we people like 165 00:08:20,360 --> 00:08:22,920 Speaker 1: to give the time. Friends. A couple of years ago, 166 00:08:23,080 --> 00:08:25,880 Speaker 1: we were saying three to five years. Now the Court 167 00:08:26,000 --> 00:08:28,000 Speaker 1: has thrown a new wrinkle in this. You know, we 168 00:08:28,120 --> 00:08:30,560 Speaker 1: have the great potential here of the U. S. Supreme 169 00:08:30,640 --> 00:08:35,080 Speaker 1: Court declaring this failed federal band unconstitutional, and you could 170 00:08:35,080 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 1: see states offering regulated sports betting as soon as in 171 00:08:39,360 --> 00:08:41,679 Speaker 1: the event of the Court takes a more nuanced position. 172 00:08:42,080 --> 00:08:44,480 Speaker 1: I think we're probably two years out. I think we're 173 00:08:44,520 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 1: looking at twenty nineteen to probably get something done in Congress. 174 00:08:48,080 --> 00:08:52,280 Speaker 1: It's ambitious from a timeline perspective, but depending upon what 175 00:08:52,360 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: the Court does, you're going to see the league's, the 176 00:08:55,320 --> 00:08:59,520 Speaker 1: gaming industry, the broadcasters all working together with a shared 177 00:08:59,600 --> 00:09:04,559 Speaker 1: goal of a regulated sports betting market. Some critics would say, Jeff, 178 00:09:04,760 --> 00:09:09,240 Speaker 1: why is this unconstitutional? Why do you want gambling across 179 00:09:09,320 --> 00:09:13,520 Speaker 1: the entire United states. Well, I think whether it's constitutional 180 00:09:13,640 --> 00:09:15,839 Speaker 1: or not is a different issue from whether or not 181 00:09:15,960 --> 00:09:18,319 Speaker 1: you want an expansion of gambling. Uh. And when I 182 00:09:18,320 --> 00:09:21,160 Speaker 1: say expansion, I mean legal because, as you know, and 183 00:09:21,280 --> 00:09:24,080 Speaker 1: I know, and everybody else knows, sports betting is taking 184 00:09:24,120 --> 00:09:27,040 Speaker 1: place in every corner of this country right now, more 185 00:09:27,080 --> 00:09:29,560 Speaker 1: than a hundred and fifty billion dollars spent each year 186 00:09:29,760 --> 00:09:33,160 Speaker 1: on sports, all of it being done an unregulated fashion 187 00:09:33,240 --> 00:09:38,719 Speaker 1: and illegal fashion, with no consumer protections, with no benefits 188 00:09:38,760 --> 00:09:42,280 Speaker 1: back to local communities. The ship has sailed on sports betting. 189 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:47,880 Speaker 1: It's happening. So critics need to choose one of two paths, unregulated, illegal, 190 00:09:48,120 --> 00:09:50,800 Speaker 1: dark of night, or bring this out into the regulated 191 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:54,040 Speaker 1: market where there are benefits for consumers and communities. I 192 00:09:54,120 --> 00:09:56,880 Speaker 1: think there's only one choice there, and those that would 193 00:09:56,880 --> 00:09:59,439 Speaker 1: like to suggest that there's an alternative, I think are 194 00:09:59,440 --> 00:10:02,000 Speaker 1: living in a fan land. Now. It's one thing if 195 00:10:02,080 --> 00:10:05,840 Speaker 1: sports betting takes place across the nation in a casino. 196 00:10:06,720 --> 00:10:12,520 Speaker 1: What happens when it's approved online. All you have in 197 00:10:12,559 --> 00:10:15,079 Speaker 1: the state of Nevada right now is the ability to 198 00:10:15,760 --> 00:10:19,280 Speaker 1: provide sports betting through the casinos at their brick and 199 00:10:19,360 --> 00:10:23,480 Speaker 1: mortar sports books inside the casinos or through a mobile 200 00:10:23,600 --> 00:10:27,280 Speaker 1: channel where you use your loyalty program with the casinos. 201 00:10:27,840 --> 00:10:30,839 Speaker 1: We know that more than six of the bets that 202 00:10:30,880 --> 00:10:34,040 Speaker 1: are placed in Nevada right now are placed in a 203 00:10:34,200 --> 00:10:38,120 Speaker 1: mobile fashion. So I'm using my Caesar's account, or my 204 00:10:38,320 --> 00:10:41,400 Speaker 1: mg M account or my William Hill account, I'm using 205 00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,120 Speaker 1: one of them, and most consumers are placing that bet 206 00:10:44,240 --> 00:10:47,920 Speaker 1: in a mobile fashion in Nevada. I would expect that 207 00:10:48,080 --> 00:10:50,959 Speaker 1: to be the case when this issue expands. When this 208 00:10:51,080 --> 00:10:54,040 Speaker 1: issue moves to other markets, I would expect many markets 209 00:10:54,120 --> 00:10:57,360 Speaker 1: to choose to offer a plan similar to Nevada's. Some 210 00:10:57,520 --> 00:10:59,640 Speaker 1: will choose a different approach. Some will choose to just 211 00:10:59,760 --> 00:11:02,160 Speaker 1: give it to the brick and moat casinos, some will 212 00:11:02,240 --> 00:11:04,720 Speaker 1: choose to just give it to the lotteries. We're going 213 00:11:04,800 --> 00:11:07,240 Speaker 1: to see a different approach state by state. But I 214 00:11:07,280 --> 00:11:10,719 Speaker 1: would expect in time, the ability to to do this 215 00:11:10,920 --> 00:11:13,559 Speaker 1: in a mobile fashion, as has done in Nevada and 216 00:11:13,679 --> 00:11:16,240 Speaker 1: has done in the UK and Australia and other regulated 217 00:11:16,280 --> 00:11:18,760 Speaker 1: markets around the world, to be the path that is 218 00:11:18,800 --> 00:11:23,760 Speaker 1: supported by by the leagues, by broadcasters and by other 219 00:11:23,840 --> 00:11:26,800 Speaker 1: stakeholders supported by the League. And we're talking with Jeff 220 00:11:26,840 --> 00:11:30,400 Speaker 1: Freeman president and CEO of the American Gaming Association. That's 221 00:11:30,480 --> 00:11:33,640 Speaker 1: the key here. Yes, Jeff supported by the leagues and 222 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 1: the NBA and Adam Silver have been out front, but 223 00:11:38,040 --> 00:11:40,959 Speaker 1: right underneath the surface there you have the NFL, MLB. 224 00:11:41,440 --> 00:11:44,280 Speaker 1: You get a sense they are all in on board, 225 00:11:44,360 --> 00:11:48,120 Speaker 1: even though they haven't quite come out and said it. Well, again, 226 00:11:48,200 --> 00:11:50,880 Speaker 1: going back to Adam Silver's up ed, what's changed since then. 227 00:11:51,080 --> 00:11:53,959 Speaker 1: We've had the Vegas Golden Nights launch, We've had the 228 00:11:54,000 --> 00:11:58,320 Speaker 1: Oakland Raiders now in the midst of relocating to Las Vegas. 229 00:11:58,920 --> 00:12:01,520 Speaker 1: We've had a presidential debate take place in Las Vegas. 230 00:12:01,920 --> 00:12:04,480 Speaker 1: We've had a former casino owner become President of the 231 00:12:04,600 --> 00:12:07,280 Speaker 1: United States. You look at what has happened in just 232 00:12:07,440 --> 00:12:11,839 Speaker 1: those three years with attitudes around gaming, with the mainstream 233 00:12:12,000 --> 00:12:14,839 Speaker 1: nature of the industry, I think there is much greater 234 00:12:14,960 --> 00:12:18,520 Speaker 1: comfort today than there ever was in the past. And 235 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,960 Speaker 1: I know that the leagues are doing their due diligence 236 00:12:21,040 --> 00:12:23,840 Speaker 1: to prepare for a regulated market. Uh. It goes back 237 00:12:23,920 --> 00:12:26,240 Speaker 1: in that pre dates Adam Silver obviously, but with if 238 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,000 Speaker 1: you look at when this ball was originally passed that 239 00:12:29,160 --> 00:12:32,120 Speaker 1: banned sports betting outside Nevada, it was banned in the 240 00:12:32,280 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: pre Internet days, we were in the very earliest stages 241 00:12:37,559 --> 00:12:41,120 Speaker 1: of signing out what that sound was for dial up modems? Uh, 242 00:12:41,280 --> 00:12:44,079 Speaker 1: this was a time where people could not imagine what 243 00:12:44,280 --> 00:12:47,599 Speaker 1: the gaming industry would become. The connection with sports, the 244 00:12:47,679 --> 00:12:52,559 Speaker 1: ability to engage customers with sports, something that daily fantasy 245 00:12:52,600 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 1: sports proved so effectively, and also the ability to use 246 00:12:56,200 --> 00:13:00,240 Speaker 1: big data to protect the integrity of sports. Every thing 247 00:13:00,360 --> 00:13:04,079 Speaker 1: has changed, and I think that's why everyone who is 248 00:13:04,120 --> 00:13:07,240 Speaker 1: a stakeholder here is getting more and more comfortable with 249 00:13:07,320 --> 00:13:11,199 Speaker 1: the relationship between regulated sports betting and the sports that 250 00:13:11,240 --> 00:13:13,520 Speaker 1: we so love. We had Joe Lacob on the show 251 00:13:13,520 --> 00:13:14,920 Speaker 1: a long time ago, and we made him do his 252 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,439 Speaker 1: old peanut vendor call, remember Michael, because he was a 253 00:13:17,480 --> 00:13:20,720 Speaker 1: peanut vendor. You just referenced the dial up modem sound. 254 00:13:20,760 --> 00:13:23,040 Speaker 1: Come on, Jeff, let me give me your best Sally. 255 00:13:23,280 --> 00:13:27,840 Speaker 1: What was that again? That sound? My my My wife 256 00:13:27,920 --> 00:13:30,760 Speaker 1: makes fun of me when I try to make you. Well. 257 00:13:30,920 --> 00:13:33,480 Speaker 1: Here's a very simple question. What took so long? Why 258 00:13:33,600 --> 00:13:38,040 Speaker 1: has it taken this long? Yeah, it's it's funny. As 259 00:13:38,120 --> 00:13:40,960 Speaker 1: I've gotten so deep into sports betting over the past 260 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:45,360 Speaker 1: several years, I've run into this this this odd sense 261 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,880 Speaker 1: out there that because we don't have legal sports betting 262 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,959 Speaker 1: in this country, therefore our sports are safe. We're not 263 00:13:53,160 --> 00:13:56,600 Speaker 1: like the UK, We're not like Australia. And it's funny 264 00:13:56,640 --> 00:14:00,760 Speaker 1: how so many Americans have, and with all due respect, 265 00:14:00,880 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 1: a hit in the sand approach on this issue, where 266 00:14:05,040 --> 00:14:08,120 Speaker 1: they they think that it's not taking place or it's 267 00:14:08,160 --> 00:14:12,640 Speaker 1: not taking place by them, when it's quite clear from 268 00:14:13,160 --> 00:14:16,280 Speaker 1: the March Madness to the Super Bowl to every other 269 00:14:16,840 --> 00:14:19,560 Speaker 1: facet of sports, billions and billions of dollars of being 270 00:14:19,600 --> 00:14:23,120 Speaker 1: wagered and we're living in darkness. We have a way 271 00:14:23,160 --> 00:14:26,200 Speaker 1: in this country of of thinking that if if we're 272 00:14:26,240 --> 00:14:28,760 Speaker 1: not familiar with it, then it doesn't happen. But we 273 00:14:28,840 --> 00:14:30,760 Speaker 1: know in the United Kingdom there is a way to 274 00:14:30,920 --> 00:14:34,640 Speaker 1: track every single sports bet to be able to determine 275 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:39,120 Speaker 1: the integrity of what he's taking place. We were living 276 00:14:39,120 --> 00:14:40,720 Speaker 1: in the darkness here and I think some people have 277 00:14:40,800 --> 00:14:43,760 Speaker 1: been comfortable with that. I think Daily Fantasy Sports was 278 00:14:43,880 --> 00:14:47,000 Speaker 1: really the change agent here along with Adam silver Uh. 279 00:14:47,120 --> 00:14:49,440 Speaker 1: Those two things really woke people up that maybe we 280 00:14:49,520 --> 00:14:51,520 Speaker 1: need to take a fresh look and maybe there's a 281 00:14:51,560 --> 00:14:55,120 Speaker 1: new approach here. Jeff, you touched on earlier what goes 282 00:14:55,160 --> 00:14:57,720 Speaker 1: on in the UK. I'm not sure US sports fans 283 00:14:57,800 --> 00:15:00,160 Speaker 1: are aware that if you're in the stad and in 284 00:15:00,200 --> 00:15:03,440 Speaker 1: the UK, you can be in the owner's suite. There's 285 00:15:03,480 --> 00:15:05,960 Speaker 1: a knock at the door, and would anybody like to 286 00:15:06,000 --> 00:15:08,200 Speaker 1: place a wager right there in the stadium? Right we'll 287 00:15:08,240 --> 00:15:11,680 Speaker 1: show me the atmosphere. What are we looking at? Well? 288 00:15:11,760 --> 00:15:13,640 Speaker 1: And it's going even further than that. You know, the 289 00:15:13,840 --> 00:15:17,520 Speaker 1: NFL plays several games a year in the UK, specifically 290 00:15:17,520 --> 00:15:20,560 Speaker 1: at Wimbley Stadium, and Wimbley Stadium has a sports book 291 00:15:20,920 --> 00:15:24,560 Speaker 1: inside the stadium and because of the NFL's concerned in 292 00:15:24,720 --> 00:15:27,440 Speaker 1: years past about com betting, they've asked for that sports 293 00:15:27,480 --> 00:15:30,560 Speaker 1: book to be closed that indeed, it has been closed. However, 294 00:15:31,080 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: what hasn't been acknowledged is that every single person in 295 00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,040 Speaker 1: that stadium with the phone has a sports book in 296 00:15:36,080 --> 00:15:38,960 Speaker 1: their hands, and every single one of them is using 297 00:15:39,080 --> 00:15:42,600 Speaker 1: the apps on those phones to make legal bets, bets 298 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:46,560 Speaker 1: that are tracked through every which way in the UK market. 299 00:15:46,720 --> 00:15:49,640 Speaker 1: And I think that tracking is what they use. I 300 00:15:49,720 --> 00:15:52,640 Speaker 1: know that tracking is what they use to protect the 301 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,240 Speaker 1: integrity of sport. But Jeff, let me ask you, let 302 00:15:55,280 --> 00:15:56,840 Speaker 1: me ask you this, Jeff, What can I do faster? 303 00:15:56,920 --> 00:15:58,760 Speaker 1: If I whip out my phone here and I have it? 304 00:15:58,840 --> 00:16:00,640 Speaker 1: What can I do quicker? Can I place a bet 305 00:16:00,840 --> 00:16:03,560 Speaker 1: or get an uber? It's funny you say that, because 306 00:16:03,600 --> 00:16:06,600 Speaker 1: that's exactly the demo that we're doing for members of Congress. 307 00:16:06,880 --> 00:16:08,880 Speaker 1: It's exactly the demo that we're doing for members of 308 00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:11,320 Speaker 1: the media, because the truth is, you can do both 309 00:16:11,400 --> 00:16:13,880 Speaker 1: in the same amount of time. The ability to place 310 00:16:13,920 --> 00:16:16,280 Speaker 1: a bed, the ability to order ober is exactly the 311 00:16:16,400 --> 00:16:19,560 Speaker 1: same business. It's that business that people want to engage in, 312 00:16:19,920 --> 00:16:21,920 Speaker 1: and it's one of the things that's changed about sports. 313 00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:25,200 Speaker 1: I think this is critical. Our grandparents are our parents. 314 00:16:25,520 --> 00:16:28,280 Speaker 1: They used to donate three, six nine hours of their 315 00:16:28,320 --> 00:16:30,800 Speaker 1: time to kick back in a lazy boy and watch 316 00:16:30,840 --> 00:16:34,320 Speaker 1: a football game or some other aspect of sports. People 317 00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:37,040 Speaker 1: are no longer willing to donate that time anymore. They 318 00:16:37,120 --> 00:16:39,840 Speaker 1: want to be invested, they want to be engaged, and 319 00:16:40,000 --> 00:16:43,360 Speaker 1: that's what fantasy sports proved. That's what sports betting has 320 00:16:43,400 --> 00:16:46,800 Speaker 1: the opportunity to offer people. They want to bet is 321 00:16:46,840 --> 00:16:49,160 Speaker 1: the next pitch a ball or a strike, and they 322 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,320 Speaker 1: want to do a side bet on double play? Is 323 00:16:51,360 --> 00:16:53,640 Speaker 1: the next play a run or a past side bet 324 00:16:53,680 --> 00:16:57,360 Speaker 1: on turnover. That's a way of being engaged here, of 325 00:16:57,520 --> 00:17:00,360 Speaker 1: tracking what's going on, having fun and inter acting with 326 00:17:00,440 --> 00:17:04,479 Speaker 1: the game that people are doing with European football, with soccer, 327 00:17:04,840 --> 00:17:07,040 Speaker 1: they're doing that type of in play betting, and I 328 00:17:07,160 --> 00:17:10,200 Speaker 1: say again, it enables people to protect the integrity of 329 00:17:10,240 --> 00:17:13,400 Speaker 1: the game. When you're tracking every bet that's placed, we're 330 00:17:13,440 --> 00:17:15,520 Speaker 1: tracking who did it, why they did it, where they 331 00:17:15,600 --> 00:17:18,159 Speaker 1: did it, and so on. You're able to see what 332 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:21,679 Speaker 1: anomalies take place. You're able to see when something happened 333 00:17:21,680 --> 00:17:24,400 Speaker 1: that shouldn't have happened. They've tracked it with tennis, they've 334 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,000 Speaker 1: tracked it with soccer, they've tracked it with other sports 335 00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,360 Speaker 1: outside the United States. Inside the United States, we don't 336 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:33,280 Speaker 1: have that information, and truth be told, we don't know 337 00:17:33,400 --> 00:17:36,800 Speaker 1: what's going on. Why would Vegas want to give up 338 00:17:36,840 --> 00:17:40,080 Speaker 1: big time sports betting, because in the past, Vegas has 339 00:17:40,119 --> 00:17:44,760 Speaker 1: been notorious for being reluctant for betting like this or 340 00:17:44,880 --> 00:17:47,120 Speaker 1: any kind of gambling for that matter, to go out 341 00:17:47,160 --> 00:17:51,520 Speaker 1: of the Nevada boundaries. Michael goes back to the question 342 00:17:51,600 --> 00:17:54,320 Speaker 1: you asked earlier as to the concern that people might 343 00:17:54,400 --> 00:17:57,200 Speaker 1: have with with sports betting now it is happening outside 344 00:17:57,680 --> 00:18:01,520 Speaker 1: outside Nevada around the country. The truth is it's already 345 00:18:01,560 --> 00:18:04,280 Speaker 1: happening everywhere else. And the reason that Las Vegas and 346 00:18:04,359 --> 00:18:08,439 Speaker 1: Nevada have come around having a regulated market is because 347 00:18:08,520 --> 00:18:11,240 Speaker 1: they realize that they don't have a monopoly. What they 348 00:18:11,320 --> 00:18:14,159 Speaker 1: have is a very small portion. If you look at 349 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:16,399 Speaker 1: the hundred and fifty billion dollars it was waged on 350 00:18:16,480 --> 00:18:18,960 Speaker 1: sports last year in the United States, only four and 351 00:18:19,000 --> 00:18:23,960 Speaker 1: a half billion was waged legally in Nevada. Nevada understands 352 00:18:24,080 --> 00:18:27,879 Speaker 1: they don't control this market, so frankly, there's upside. If 353 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: we can take that illegal market bring it into the 354 00:18:30,720 --> 00:18:34,160 Speaker 1: legal market. Then it is many companies within the gaming 355 00:18:34,200 --> 00:18:37,679 Speaker 1: industry who have an opportunity in states like Pennsylvania, Ohio, 356 00:18:37,840 --> 00:18:41,040 Speaker 1: New Jersey and beyond to offer this in a regulated, 357 00:18:41,720 --> 00:18:45,000 Speaker 1: legal fashion with the expertise at these companies bring to 358 00:18:45,080 --> 00:18:49,560 Speaker 1: the table. So this really isn't about losing a monopoly. 359 00:18:49,880 --> 00:18:53,040 Speaker 1: This is about bringing the illegal market into the regulated 360 00:18:53,080 --> 00:18:55,480 Speaker 1: space and doing it the right way. I was laughing 361 00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:57,879 Speaker 1: because when you guys are talking about someone coming in 362 00:18:57,960 --> 00:18:59,920 Speaker 1: the booth, would you like to place a wager? Usually 363 00:19:00,080 --> 00:19:02,359 Speaker 1: was some guy named Lou coming up to me talking 364 00:19:02,440 --> 00:19:05,440 Speaker 1: about it. You take that element out of it, the 365 00:19:05,880 --> 00:19:09,520 Speaker 1: so called bookie element out of it. Can this how 366 00:19:09,800 --> 00:19:12,920 Speaker 1: how widespread can this goes? When I'm getting it? Well, 367 00:19:13,000 --> 00:19:15,879 Speaker 1: that's so, I'm fascinated. And I've had the opportunity to 368 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:19,359 Speaker 1: talk to some guys and in venture capital and private 369 00:19:19,400 --> 00:19:21,840 Speaker 1: equity and elsewhere where. It seems like there's a lot 370 00:19:21,880 --> 00:19:24,680 Speaker 1: of money sitting on the sidelines right now for innovation 371 00:19:24,720 --> 00:19:28,000 Speaker 1: in the sports betting space. How we consume sports today 372 00:19:28,200 --> 00:19:30,440 Speaker 1: is fundamentally different than how we consumed in the past. 373 00:19:30,800 --> 00:19:32,760 Speaker 1: When I sit back now and watch a Green Bay 374 00:19:32,800 --> 00:19:35,320 Speaker 1: Packer game on Sunday, I'm not just watching the game 375 00:19:35,359 --> 00:19:38,800 Speaker 1: on TV. I'm watching on my phone the Twitter feed 376 00:19:38,960 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: of of all of the beat writers who I follow, 377 00:19:41,359 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 1: of others who are commenting on the game. You have 378 00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:47,159 Speaker 1: this dual screen mentality going. You're consuming the game in 379 00:19:47,200 --> 00:19:51,040 Speaker 1: a different way. As sports betting matures in the United States, 380 00:19:51,440 --> 00:19:53,920 Speaker 1: the ways that we can engage with the game, the 381 00:19:54,040 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: ways that it can be interactive, the ways that we 382 00:19:56,960 --> 00:20:00,320 Speaker 1: can somehow watch a Brown's Jaguars game and before quarter 383 00:20:00,600 --> 00:20:02,760 Speaker 1: when nobody thought that was possible in the year's past. 384 00:20:03,280 --> 00:20:07,000 Speaker 1: That is what's going to change. The engagement's going to change. 385 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,840 Speaker 1: The attention span is going to change, the interest is 386 00:20:09,880 --> 00:20:12,399 Speaker 1: going to change. What that can do for ratings, what 387 00:20:12,560 --> 00:20:14,879 Speaker 1: that can do for advertising, what that can do for 388 00:20:15,080 --> 00:20:19,040 Speaker 1: so many who touched sports? Is what has everybody excited? 389 00:20:19,400 --> 00:20:22,680 Speaker 1: Did you just say and you were totally lucid for 390 00:20:22,760 --> 00:20:25,320 Speaker 1: this entire conversation, but did you just say that somebody's 391 00:20:25,320 --> 00:20:26,920 Speaker 1: going to be interested in the Cleveland Browns and the 392 00:20:26,960 --> 00:20:31,280 Speaker 1: fourth quarter? They have found a way to make it happen. 393 00:20:31,760 --> 00:20:34,200 Speaker 1: Who knew? Who knew what this could be done? That's 394 00:20:34,240 --> 00:20:37,800 Speaker 1: saying something. And Jeff, it seems as if everybody is 395 00:20:37,880 --> 00:20:42,639 Speaker 1: now starting to jockey for position the NBA's lobbying congress. 396 00:20:43,280 --> 00:20:46,400 Speaker 1: MGM Resorts is spending money to build a sports book 397 00:20:46,440 --> 00:20:51,520 Speaker 1: at the Borgata. Who is the early favorite to reap 398 00:20:51,600 --> 00:20:55,000 Speaker 1: the benefits if this happens. Yeah, I think the beauty 399 00:20:55,040 --> 00:20:57,240 Speaker 1: of this issue is there's going to be a lot 400 00:20:57,320 --> 00:20:59,080 Speaker 1: of money to go around. There's going to be a 401 00:20:59,160 --> 00:21:02,520 Speaker 1: lot of opportunities go around brick and mortar casino companies 402 00:21:02,520 --> 00:21:05,000 Speaker 1: who are already active in many of these states. Uh, 403 00:21:05,080 --> 00:21:06,879 Speaker 1: I certainly have a leg up in the sense that 404 00:21:07,040 --> 00:21:11,320 Speaker 1: legislators are going to want to ensure that they protect 405 00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:14,960 Speaker 1: and help grow those businesses that have already invested in 406 00:21:15,040 --> 00:21:17,920 Speaker 1: those states. So they've got a good opportunity. I think 407 00:21:17,920 --> 00:21:21,119 Speaker 1: a lottery interests will have a good opportunity. Uh. You 408 00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:24,080 Speaker 1: will see in some of these states where bars and 409 00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,120 Speaker 1: taverns have been given the ability to offer gaming machines 410 00:21:28,280 --> 00:21:30,879 Speaker 1: that they too, men have the possibility in Illinois and 411 00:21:30,960 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 1: some other markets. The upper one that's going to be 412 00:21:33,400 --> 00:21:35,440 Speaker 1: very interesting, in addition to the leagues and some of 413 00:21:35,520 --> 00:21:38,719 Speaker 1: the traditional stakeholders you know, is going to be these 414 00:21:38,760 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 1: European operators and suppliers and sports petting technology. The truth 415 00:21:43,520 --> 00:21:47,240 Speaker 1: is that the Europeans are further down this road with 416 00:21:47,359 --> 00:21:49,800 Speaker 1: a bigger market, you know, in terms of the legal 417 00:21:49,880 --> 00:21:52,959 Speaker 1: market than in the US, and they bring great technology 418 00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:57,200 Speaker 1: to bear. They're going to have very intriguing assets, and 419 00:21:57,280 --> 00:21:59,520 Speaker 1: that they're going to be ways for them to work 420 00:21:59,600 --> 00:22:02,440 Speaker 1: with the thing operators in the United States to bring 421 00:22:02,560 --> 00:22:04,359 Speaker 1: their product here. So I think they're another one that 422 00:22:04,400 --> 00:22:06,239 Speaker 1: stands to benefit. At the end of the day, though, 423 00:22:06,240 --> 00:22:10,200 Speaker 1: who's going to really benefit broadcasters? Broadcasters are going to 424 00:22:10,280 --> 00:22:15,920 Speaker 1: benefit immensely from the engagement the eyeballs, the advertising there's 425 00:22:15,960 --> 00:22:19,719 Speaker 1: tremendous opportunity on that front. One of the big topics 426 00:22:19,760 --> 00:22:23,160 Speaker 1: in the news, of course, is the Republican tax bill, 427 00:22:23,400 --> 00:22:27,920 Speaker 1: the overhaul. But the A g. A has lobbied about 428 00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,720 Speaker 1: some aspects against the House version of the bill. You're 429 00:22:31,720 --> 00:22:34,320 Speaker 1: saying it will be bad for business. Take us through that. 430 00:22:34,520 --> 00:22:38,160 Speaker 1: What would be bad for business from that bill? Yeah? 431 00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:39,680 Speaker 1: I think that when you look at the House bill 432 00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,800 Speaker 1: and the Center Bill, there are a lot of different 433 00:22:42,840 --> 00:22:45,560 Speaker 1: features uh so of which are very good, which is 434 00:22:45,640 --> 00:22:49,879 Speaker 1: lowering the corporate tax rate from down to a uh 435 00:22:50,000 --> 00:22:51,560 Speaker 1: and then what you have to figure out is these 436 00:22:51,600 --> 00:22:54,080 Speaker 1: things are less good. How do you balance that with 437 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 1: the improvement you get on the lowering of the tax rate. 438 00:22:57,440 --> 00:22:59,159 Speaker 1: One of the things it's going to be very difficult 439 00:22:59,160 --> 00:23:02,720 Speaker 1: to balance that. We ruggle with our limitations on interest 440 00:23:02,800 --> 00:23:06,119 Speaker 1: a ductibility. You know, we are a capital intensive business. 441 00:23:06,200 --> 00:23:09,200 Speaker 1: When you look at casinos, billions and billions of dollars 442 00:23:09,240 --> 00:23:11,880 Speaker 1: spent to build these facilities, and then what many people 443 00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:15,560 Speaker 1: don't know is tens hundreds of millions spent to constantly 444 00:23:15,680 --> 00:23:19,240 Speaker 1: refresh these facilities. You take a proper let the Cosmopolitan, 445 00:23:19,320 --> 00:23:21,600 Speaker 1: which opened not that long ago. As cities that are 446 00:23:21,640 --> 00:23:24,520 Speaker 1: opened in Las Vegas. In recent years, they've spent several 447 00:23:24,600 --> 00:23:28,200 Speaker 1: hundred million to renovate all of the rooms. The property 448 00:23:28,320 --> 00:23:30,720 Speaker 1: is what five six eight years old at most, and 449 00:23:30,840 --> 00:23:33,720 Speaker 1: yet they're putting hundreds of millions back into it. That's 450 00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:36,560 Speaker 1: what our industry does. We have to constantly refresh and 451 00:23:36,640 --> 00:23:39,119 Speaker 1: that's where interested ductibility is important. As you as be 452 00:23:39,240 --> 00:23:42,920 Speaker 1: a capital intensive business, having that ability to duct to 453 00:23:43,040 --> 00:23:46,240 Speaker 1: deduct those interest expenses is critical to the ability to 454 00:23:46,359 --> 00:23:49,320 Speaker 1: reinvest in these properties. That's something that we're working with 455 00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,040 Speaker 1: the broader real estate community, the private equity community, and 456 00:23:53,119 --> 00:23:56,320 Speaker 1: others to try to protect that interest deductibility. I think 457 00:23:56,359 --> 00:24:00,080 Speaker 1: it's important to the future reinvestment in this industry. We 458 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:02,159 Speaker 1: are chatting with Jeff Freeman, the president and CEO of 459 00:24:02,200 --> 00:24:04,520 Speaker 1: the American Gaming Association, and Jeff helped me out here. 460 00:24:04,960 --> 00:24:09,280 Speaker 1: What does the NFL tell you forward facing? Their very conservative, 461 00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,439 Speaker 1: but they are investor in sport Radar, which does provide 462 00:24:12,800 --> 00:24:16,640 Speaker 1: bed in data to the casinos all over the world. Um, 463 00:24:17,040 --> 00:24:19,920 Speaker 1: seems as if they are moving towards preparing for this. 464 00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,560 Speaker 1: What do they say behind closed doors? Are they as 465 00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:27,119 Speaker 1: conservative as we think or are they really ready to 466 00:24:27,160 --> 00:24:30,399 Speaker 1: push the envelope. I think it's it's far less important 467 00:24:30,440 --> 00:24:32,719 Speaker 1: what they say to me than what they say publicly, 468 00:24:32,840 --> 00:24:34,880 Speaker 1: what they do publicly, And I think you can see 469 00:24:35,520 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: some very interesting moves you mentioned working with sport Raider. 470 00:24:39,640 --> 00:24:43,040 Speaker 1: We spoke earlier of the Raiders relocating to Las Vegas. 471 00:24:43,560 --> 00:24:47,639 Speaker 1: We saw recently a file with the U. S. Supreme 472 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:51,800 Speaker 1: Court of the opinion of the various leagues as to 473 00:24:51,920 --> 00:24:54,719 Speaker 1: this case, and in there the language it was much 474 00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:57,840 Speaker 1: more measured than it had been in years past. I've 475 00:24:57,880 --> 00:25:02,680 Speaker 1: heard Commissioner Goodell speak publicly about an evolving position on gambling. 476 00:25:03,240 --> 00:25:05,720 Speaker 1: You look at all those things together, and I think 477 00:25:05,800 --> 00:25:11,399 Speaker 1: the public message is that we're open to having a 478 00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,720 Speaker 1: new perspective here, We're open to new information, we're open 479 00:25:15,840 --> 00:25:20,280 Speaker 1: to being a nimble organization. And I think all of 480 00:25:20,359 --> 00:25:22,560 Speaker 1: that is good. I think that's part of doing your 481 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:25,200 Speaker 1: due diligence, part of becoming smarter on some of these issues. 482 00:25:25,640 --> 00:25:27,760 Speaker 1: And I see that with all of the leagues. When 483 00:25:27,800 --> 00:25:29,760 Speaker 1: you cut through all the verbiage, it doesn't it just 484 00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,359 Speaker 1: boil down to we're open to a new monster revenue stream. 485 00:25:33,880 --> 00:25:37,320 Speaker 1: I think all of these leagues, and it's not just leagues, 486 00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: I mean if we look at things that have been 487 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,399 Speaker 1: so dependent on UH television for so many years, and 488 00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:45,720 Speaker 1: that's one of the shifts. If you go back and 489 00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:48,359 Speaker 1: passport was put in place, there was even a greater 490 00:25:48,440 --> 00:25:50,920 Speaker 1: focus at that time about getting people inside the stadiums. 491 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:56,160 Speaker 1: The TV rights deals were nothing in there. Today. There's 492 00:25:56,240 --> 00:25:59,320 Speaker 1: so much that depends on television at a time when 493 00:25:59,359 --> 00:26:02,359 Speaker 1: we're hearing every week of cord cutting, we're hearing of 494 00:26:03,040 --> 00:26:07,440 Speaker 1: less interest in consuming UH sports and other programming with 495 00:26:07,600 --> 00:26:11,160 Speaker 1: out there. It's all about capturing eyeballs, and what works 496 00:26:11,240 --> 00:26:13,280 Speaker 1: to capture the eyeballs of our parents is not going 497 00:26:13,359 --> 00:26:15,720 Speaker 1: to work to capture the eyeballs of our kids. You 498 00:26:15,840 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: have to evolve, and I think that's what the leagues 499 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:20,400 Speaker 1: are looking at doing. That's what our industry is looking 500 00:26:20,400 --> 00:26:22,760 Speaker 1: at doing. We can't continue to provide the same product 501 00:26:22,880 --> 00:26:25,920 Speaker 1: we provided twenty years ago. We have to evolve. And 502 00:26:26,000 --> 00:26:29,000 Speaker 1: I think that evolution is helpful. I think the evolution 503 00:26:29,119 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 1: is healthy, and I think too often the evolution gets 504 00:26:31,560 --> 00:26:34,920 Speaker 1: criticized as being kind of crassed just in search of revenue. 505 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:38,480 Speaker 1: That's what business does. Business evolves the search for revenue 506 00:26:38,880 --> 00:26:42,400 Speaker 1: UH and that in doing that, you're adapting to your customer, 507 00:26:42,600 --> 00:26:44,439 Speaker 1: and frankly, I think that's something that should be praised. 508 00:26:45,280 --> 00:26:49,439 Speaker 1: Speaking of revenue, there's more to this. If sports betting 509 00:26:49,560 --> 00:26:53,920 Speaker 1: becomes widespread across the entire fifties States, it's not just 510 00:26:54,200 --> 00:26:57,560 Speaker 1: the online sports betting sites that could pop up that 511 00:26:57,600 --> 00:27:01,840 Speaker 1: could make money, but those ancillaries sites such as people 512 00:27:01,920 --> 00:27:06,440 Speaker 1: with sports tips and people with the analytics sites. This 513 00:27:06,680 --> 00:27:10,880 Speaker 1: could explode beyond the means that we can even imagine. 514 00:27:11,359 --> 00:27:13,639 Speaker 1: I think that. I think what the future of the 515 00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:16,520 Speaker 1: market is, uh is something that will take many years 516 00:27:16,680 --> 00:27:19,760 Speaker 1: to come to fruition. The market will take on different 517 00:27:19,800 --> 00:27:23,080 Speaker 1: shapes than perhaps we imagine today. I think that's exciting. 518 00:27:23,640 --> 00:27:26,320 Speaker 1: We most of us wouldn't have imagined daily fantasy sports 519 00:27:26,920 --> 00:27:29,480 Speaker 1: five six seven years ago. Um, what is it that 520 00:27:29,560 --> 00:27:32,000 Speaker 1: we're not imagining right now five six seven years from now? 521 00:27:32,520 --> 00:27:34,760 Speaker 1: To me, that's fun. I consume a lot of sports. 522 00:27:35,080 --> 00:27:37,760 Speaker 1: I love sports. If there are some manly new ways 523 00:27:37,800 --> 00:27:41,200 Speaker 1: of interacting with it, again, to me, that is exciting. 524 00:27:41,320 --> 00:27:45,200 Speaker 1: If I can do that in a safe, secure, regulated fashion, 525 00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 1: all the better. Uh. You know, it's we can we 526 00:27:49,040 --> 00:27:52,440 Speaker 1: can kind of have this passion for how things used 527 00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,040 Speaker 1: to get done or enjoy the ride as we do 528 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:57,440 Speaker 1: things in a much different way. I'm part of the 529 00:27:57,560 --> 00:28:00,639 Speaker 1: enjoy the ride brigade. Well, let's see what a ride becomes. 530 00:28:00,720 --> 00:28:03,560 Speaker 1: Jeff Freeman, President and CEO of the American Gaming Association, 531 00:28:03,680 --> 00:28:09,159 Speaker 1: thank you very much for your thoughts. Takeaways from speaking 532 00:28:09,240 --> 00:28:14,200 Speaker 1: with Jeff Freeman. My goodness, sports betting online. The moment 533 00:28:14,359 --> 00:28:17,440 Speaker 1: that happens, this is going to explode. I think that's 534 00:28:17,480 --> 00:28:19,840 Speaker 1: going to be the moment when it goes into all 535 00:28:20,000 --> 00:28:23,440 Speaker 1: fifty states. And that's the impression I was getting from Jeff. Yeah, 536 00:28:23,480 --> 00:28:25,720 Speaker 1: the one year, two year was my takeaway. I was 537 00:28:25,800 --> 00:28:29,080 Speaker 1: thinking three five years down the line. But this New 538 00:28:29,160 --> 00:28:31,960 Speaker 1: Jersey case that that's coming up. He seems to think 539 00:28:32,000 --> 00:28:34,160 Speaker 1: if it goes the way of New Jersey, we could 540 00:28:34,200 --> 00:28:37,639 Speaker 1: be looking at legalized sports betting, federally regulated in about 541 00:28:37,640 --> 00:28:41,080 Speaker 1: a year. That will really change the industry. Let's see 542 00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:45,240 Speaker 1: what it does for that second screen engagement, everything, the 543 00:28:45,360 --> 00:28:51,640 Speaker 1: league's and networks, the stakeholders are looking for. Feels better 544 00:28:51,720 --> 00:28:53,400 Speaker 1: to be number one than number five. I'll wear a 545 00:28:53,520 --> 00:28:55,160 Speaker 1: number because of Mike. We have a chance to go 546 00:28:55,280 --> 00:28:57,120 Speaker 1: for three in a row. Good numbers in a good time. 547 00:28:57,160 --> 00:28:59,200 Speaker 1: And let's first started wearing the number, I would just 548 00:28:59,280 --> 00:29:02,840 Speaker 1: happy and fould Bloomberg Business of Sports, the number of 549 00:29:02,920 --> 00:29:06,320 Speaker 1: the week. Time. Now for the number of the week, 550 00:29:08,160 --> 00:29:14,640 Speaker 1: this is an easy one zero zero zero, And I'll 551 00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:21,160 Speaker 1: give you okay that too. I'll give you a hint. 552 00:29:21,440 --> 00:29:26,360 Speaker 1: You mentioned this topic during our conversation with Jeff mentioned 553 00:29:26,400 --> 00:29:31,000 Speaker 1: this topic or this zero particular moment a little help. 554 00:29:32,120 --> 00:29:36,720 Speaker 1: All right, let's go spill zero. The Cleveland brown could 555 00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:41,360 Speaker 1: win zero games this season. Now, up, they have Cincinnati, 556 00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,800 Speaker 1: which Cincinnati beat the living daylights out of them the 557 00:29:44,920 --> 00:29:47,400 Speaker 1: last time they played. Then you have the Chargers, Then 558 00:29:47,440 --> 00:29:50,680 Speaker 1: you have Green Bay, you have Baltimore. Baltimore beat them 559 00:29:50,720 --> 00:29:53,960 Speaker 1: the last time they met Chicago, and then Pittsburgh, and 560 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:58,320 Speaker 1: Pittsburgh beat them the last time they met the Browns. 561 00:29:58,520 --> 00:30:01,880 Speaker 1: What would it mean for or that organization if they 562 00:30:02,000 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: go winless like another organization that is near and dear 563 00:30:05,840 --> 00:30:07,880 Speaker 1: to my heart many years ago. Well, let's put it on. 564 00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,160 Speaker 1: Let's look at our parlance, the things we do here, 565 00:30:10,760 --> 00:30:13,440 Speaker 1: the money surrounding. What are the Browns worth? I haven't 566 00:30:13,520 --> 00:30:17,560 Speaker 1: looked at the valuations lately, but you can bet that 567 00:30:17,680 --> 00:30:21,080 Speaker 1: if a storage franchise like the Cleveland Browns were put 568 00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:25,200 Speaker 1: on the market, you would have people on the runway 569 00:30:25,360 --> 00:30:28,880 Speaker 1: with their paddles in the air waiting to bid billion, 570 00:30:29,000 --> 00:30:33,080 Speaker 1: five billion, six billion, seven sold to the highest That's 571 00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,800 Speaker 1: the amazing part of the NFL. Even now numbers are 572 00:30:36,840 --> 00:30:39,600 Speaker 1: coming down in terms of ratings, they're they're not immune 573 00:30:39,680 --> 00:30:42,520 Speaker 1: from the struggles. That's all well and good. There are 574 00:30:42,680 --> 00:30:47,480 Speaker 1: new revenue streams coming, as we heard today that will 575 00:30:47,600 --> 00:30:51,000 Speaker 1: boost the value of these franchises. Thirty two teams the 576 00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:54,800 Speaker 1: worst team, only thirty two of them. That's a good question. 577 00:30:54,920 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 1: We might see a day when we're going to see 578 00:30:56,400 --> 00:31:00,080 Speaker 1: an expansion one day. If people are willing to a 579 00:31:01,080 --> 00:31:04,440 Speaker 1: billion dollars one day for an expansion team, remember where 580 00:31:04,480 --> 00:31:08,000 Speaker 1: does that go. It's not shared, right into the owner's pockets. 581 00:31:08,040 --> 00:31:10,760 Speaker 1: Players don't get that. That gets split among the owners 582 00:31:11,080 --> 00:31:14,320 Speaker 1: right in their pocket. The New York Scottie, oh yeah, 583 00:31:14,760 --> 00:31:17,840 Speaker 1: you've been listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports. We are 584 00:31:17,920 --> 00:31:20,520 Speaker 1: here each and every week at the same time, exploring 585 00:31:20,600 --> 00:31:23,360 Speaker 1: the world of money and sports on Michael barn and 586 00:31:23,440 --> 00:31:25,720 Speaker 1: I'm Scott Sah. Thanks for joining us, and please tune 587 00:31:25,760 --> 00:31:28,160 Speaker 1: in next week when we speak with Pack twelve commissioner 588 00:31:28,240 --> 00:31:31,440 Speaker 1: Larry Scott. You're listening to Bloomberg Business of Sports on 589 00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:35,080 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio around the world and online as an Apple 590 00:31:35,120 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 1: podcast on iTunes,