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Speaker 1: Hi, everyone, Welcome The Mother Knows Death. We have a

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Speaker 1: breaking news episode for you guys right now. We just

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Speaker 1: sat here all afternoon watching the Brian Coburger plea deal

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Speaker 1: and his sentencing and god, so much stuff happened over

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Speaker 1: the course of the past couple of hours, so we

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Speaker 1: have a lot of opinions that we're going to talk

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Speaker 1: about it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah. Sorry to bombard you guys with breaking news episodes

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Speaker 2: this month, but it has been absolutely outrageous in the

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Speaker 2: true crime world between Karen Reid, Diddy and now this.

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Speaker 2: And you know, we've been following this case so closely

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Speaker 2: since it happened a couple of years ago, so this

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Speaker 2: kind of takes priority over everything else right now.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, we did learn some new stuff from this. First,

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Speaker 1: I want to say that let's talk about Brian's just

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Speaker 1: disposition first and just him again. I've said just a

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Speaker 1: million times that his eyes are crazy. I don't know

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Speaker 1: if you just saw my rant on my Instagram stories

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Speaker 1: today just going through all of this stuff, but his

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Speaker 1: eyes look insane and at some points he was doing

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Speaker 1: these really long blinks, which was making me think that

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Speaker 1: he was sedated in some way, like on his anax

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Speaker 1: or something, because he almost looked like it was he

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Speaker 1: was out of it and having a hard time keeping

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Speaker 1: his eyes open, or he was just incredibly bored. But

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Speaker 1: then from time to time he would look over at

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Speaker 1: places and his eyes were just bugging out in a

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Speaker 1: weird way, and he just looked completely dead, like alive

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Speaker 1: but dead.

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Speaker 2: I don't know. I have a hard time with it

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Speaker 2: because in some regard, I want to be like, you

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Speaker 2: have to be medicated to sit there for hours and

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Speaker 2: have people tell you what a piece of shit you

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Speaker 2: are and how you've ruined their life and just have

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Speaker 2: absolutely no emotional response to it. But at the same time,

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Speaker 2: he's like a complete mom that didn't care. I mean,

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Speaker 2: at times it looked like he was kind of smirking

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Speaker 2: a little bit. You thought you even saw him Rolla's

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Speaker 2: eyes at one point, which is so ridiculous for this case.

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Speaker 2: But I feel like even with these other killers we've seen,

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Speaker 2: I don't know, I just I even see them look

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Speaker 2: like angry or annoyed or whatever, and he kind of

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Speaker 2: just kept his crazy straight face this entire time. So

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Speaker 2: to that point, I guess he did have been medicated.

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Speaker 1: He did. But when the families start and we'll go

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Speaker 1: through their testimonies and their the impact the impact statements.

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Speaker 1: But when some of them started ripping into him, his

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Speaker 1: nostrils started flaring out, which I did notice. So another

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Speaker 1: another really bizarre thing about him, just besides him just

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Speaker 1: being his weird, lanky self in general, is that he

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Speaker 1: had this picture with him with a black heart on it,

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Speaker 1: and it's just so attention seeking and like, oh, I'm

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Speaker 1: so dark and evil and like, I don't know, it's

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Speaker 1: just it's just he's just such as he just is

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Speaker 1: so socially like he's just a dork. I don't know

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Speaker 1: what else to say.

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Speaker 2: All right, well, let's go through it from the beginning.

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Speaker 2: So he shows up to court wearing the typical orange jumpsuit,

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Speaker 2: belly chains and leg irons, which it was really satisfying

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Speaker 2: to see him locked up like this, right, I think

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Speaker 2: we've seen him in the orange before, correct.

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Speaker 1: But oh yeah, when he got arrested.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, but like I don't know something about the scene

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Speaker 2: and knowing that he was like facing his fate was

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Speaker 2: really satisfying to see. And then it goes right into

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Speaker 2: the impact statement. So first we had the two roommates,

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Speaker 2: which was crazy. Well, the first impact statement was from

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Speaker 2: the one roommate, Bethany, but she had a friend read

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Speaker 2: it for her. I can't even possibly imagine having to

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Speaker 2: read something like this. I mean, we all know I'm

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Speaker 2: super emotional, but I was tearing up through like every

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Speaker 2: single one of them. It was honestly, it was really

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Speaker 2: really hard to listen to.

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Speaker 1: So you know, one thing that was unexpected for me

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Speaker 1: going into this is because I I personally think, and

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Speaker 1: this is way before the Coburger case, just any case,

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Speaker 1: I oftentimes think, what is the point of the families

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Speaker 1: even saying this stuff to him because they're or to

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Speaker 1: the person that killed their family member, Because ultimately, most

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Speaker 1: killers are not remorseful, and the certainly in this case,

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Speaker 1: he does not seem to be remorseful. So you sitting

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Speaker 1: there and telling what a beautiful person your loved one was,

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Speaker 1: and how you know just what you took away from

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Speaker 1: the earth, and how let's destroy your life, it doesn't

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Speaker 1: like he doesn't care. And it's very hard to grasp

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Speaker 1: that you could be crying in front of another human

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Speaker 1: individual that took your child's life away and them not

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Speaker 1: caring is probably the hardest part of all of this.

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Speaker 1: But I was kind of. I had an unexpected reaction

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Speaker 1: myself hearing from their survivors, who in fact seemed to

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Speaker 1: be living an absolute nightmare.

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Speaker 2: No, totally, because I believe Dylan had said something along

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Speaker 2: the lines of people call me survivor, but they won't

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Speaker 2: acknowledge my new reality, which is she's living a life

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Speaker 2: of constant panic attacks. Both her and Bethany, in their

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Speaker 2: statements had said after the attacks they had to sleep

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Speaker 2: with their parents for months after it.

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Speaker 1: That's just so, that's so heartbreaking to hear that. No,

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Speaker 1: I mean think absolutely. You just think about that he

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Speaker 1: essentially stole any maturity that they've got, in any kind

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Speaker 1: of independence that they got when they went away to college,

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Speaker 1: and put them back to being a four year old

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Speaker 1: who's scared of the dark. Yeah.

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Speaker 2: I mean, Bethany was saying that she was scared he

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Speaker 2: was going to come back for her, and that she

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Speaker 2: was at a point where she was making her parents

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Speaker 2: close all the blinds in their house so nobody could

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Speaker 2: even see her. Let's not forget they were getting death

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Speaker 2: threats from strangers online blaming them for not calling the

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Speaker 2: police right away, which I feel A new piece of

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Speaker 2: information I learned today was Bethany's saying that she had

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Speaker 2: a toothache and that's why she had called her father

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Speaker 2: that morning, and she was kind of out of it,

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Speaker 2: and she was really regretful of not calling nine one

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Speaker 2: one right away. And she also has survivor's guilt and

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Speaker 2: couldn't look at the families forever because not only is

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Speaker 2: she grieving the loss of all of her friends, but

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Speaker 2: then you're sitting there like thinking, why did I survive

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Speaker 2: what happened in my case? How am I supposed to

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Speaker 2: look these people in the eye that lost their kid.

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Speaker 1: It's horrible. Yeah, And we don't have the autopsies reports

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Speaker 1: as of yet, which we will talk about as soon

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Speaker 1: as we get access to them, if we get access

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Speaker 1: to them. But one of the things that the little

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Speaker 1: bit of information that they've given us, which will go

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Speaker 1: over that to the press conference they just had, which

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Speaker 1: was a clown show in my opinion. But what we

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Speaker 1: do know is that they were they had sharp force

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Speaker 1: injuries and exanguination. They bled out all over the place,

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Speaker 1: and it doesn't even matter if she witnessed it and

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Speaker 1: called nine one one at that very moment, they likely

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Speaker 1: would not have survived those injuries. And we don't know

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Speaker 1: the extent of how bad the injuries were, but it

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Speaker 1: seems as if there were not only just stab wounds,

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Speaker 1: but slash wounds too, the things that just couldn't have

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Speaker 1: been easily repaired to even stabilize a patient, to bring

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Speaker 1: them to the hospital in time with that amount of

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Speaker 1: blood loss. So there's there's it's hard to just look

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Speaker 1: at this, this poor young woman and say, there's nothing

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Speaker 1: you could have did if you called at four in

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Speaker 1: the morning, or if you called it four at night

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Speaker 1: the next day, like you weren't doing anything, but just

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Speaker 1: the amount I mean, imagine going through something like that

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Speaker 1: and not having the entire world supporting you and feeling

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Speaker 1: bad for you, but actually having people blame you. Yeah, totally.

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Speaker 2: And so let's get back to your point of saying, like, initially,

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Speaker 2: you know, between the victims and Maddy Mugan's family, they

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Speaker 2: were kind of just going over what an amazing person

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Speaker 2: she was and how they how he took her from

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Speaker 2: them and everything like that. But you had said before

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Speaker 2: the Gonsoalve's family came up, like he doesn't care about

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Speaker 2: what he did to these good people, right, I literally

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Speaker 2: said before the Consalves' family went on. I was just like,

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Speaker 2: they need to get to him and tell him because

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Speaker 2: he thinks he's some kind of criminal mind genius and all,

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Speaker 2: and they need to like belittle him and let him

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Speaker 2: know that he sucked at it, because that's going to

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Speaker 2: get under his skin, Like that's something that would bother him.

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Speaker 2: That what is not bothering him is is people crying

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Speaker 2: and saying, oh, like, my poor sister and I have

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Speaker 2: to sleep with my mom. None of that bothered him,

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Speaker 2: But I really saw a change in his facial movements

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Speaker 2: when the consolvest the dad. I was, I was looking

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Speaker 2: forward to seeing what he would say because he's been

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Speaker 2: the most outspoken and.

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Speaker 1: The sister was just a surprise, just the rock star

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Speaker 1: and the whole entire thing. Honestly, like, but why don't

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Speaker 1: why don't you just give a summary of what that

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Speaker 1: family said at that point, Yes, for those that didn't

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Speaker 1: watch it, the.

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Speaker 2: Dad was awesome and calling him a joke, pointing out

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Speaker 2: his failures. They said they were going to be laughing

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Speaker 2: at him at just how sloppy he was, and basically

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Speaker 2: all of this basically letting them know that even though

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Speaker 2: he took their daughter away, he was not the winner

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Speaker 2: in this situation. Then Kelly's sister, who was honestly such

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Speaker 2: a superstar, came up. I don't know how she talked

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Speaker 2: with such conviction to him. I would have been crying

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Speaker 2: and just blubbering about it, but she was so strong willed.

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Speaker 2: She called him out thinking, I guess he used a

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Speaker 2: gift card to buy the knife on Amazon, and she said, like, basically,

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Speaker 2: you just think because you used a gift card, nobody

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Speaker 2: was going to be able to track your purchase, which

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Speaker 2: is really interesting. And now I want to know, like

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Speaker 2: who gave him that gift card, where did he acquire

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Speaker 2: If a family member gave it to him, did they

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Speaker 2: feel guilty? Well?

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Speaker 1: He also he also could have just bought it at Target.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean, we also got more information that a

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Speaker 2: second weapon was used on Kelley, which the press conference

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Speaker 2: they did not comment on. Will get there later. She

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Speaker 2: also said that he took an online IQ test in

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Speaker 2: twenty ten and that's why he thought it was smart.

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Speaker 2: She called him a wannabe. And the real quote of

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Speaker 2: all quotes from this family was Kelly's younger sister said,

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Speaker 2: you may have gotten a's in high school in college,

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Speaker 2: but you're going to be getting D's in prison, Big

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Speaker 2: D's yeah.

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Speaker 1: Something, Oh my god, so good. Like and there's this

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Speaker 1: photo I posted in my Instagram story of the father

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Speaker 1: just greeting her when she was done the speech and

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Speaker 1: the look on his face is just like, I'm proud

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Speaker 1: as shit right now, like this is and I am too,

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Speaker 1: just like, not even knowing her, I just think that

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Speaker 1: she's just so awesome and and and really she she

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Speaker 1: let her anger and her passion for justice overpower her emotions.

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Speaker 1: She's just such a strong person and it was just

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Speaker 1: really she gave him what he needed, which was a

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Speaker 1: pretty girl telling him what a dork and loser. He

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Speaker 1: was like, that's that's like what he needed that And

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Speaker 1: I said, this is Joseph Scott Morgan when he did

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Speaker 1: a post earlier today. I was like, the Gonzalves family,

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Speaker 1: they understood the assignment, you know what I mean, they

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Speaker 1: really they delivered it and it was it was amazing.

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Speaker 1: Another another one that stands out to me is I

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Speaker 1: mean some of them were just so terrible with a

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Speaker 1: parent saying that it was their only child and now

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Speaker 1: they have to grow older without their child. Like that

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Speaker 1: really got to me. I believe that was Maddie's family,

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Speaker 1: And yeah, I mean that thinking about that from a

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Speaker 1: parent's perspective of only having one child, and now you're

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Speaker 1: getting into your older part of life, and typically, you know,

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Speaker 1: you get to you get to spend time with your children.

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Speaker 1: It's their past that especially when a kid's in college.

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Speaker 1: When they get out of college, it's like they're they're

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Speaker 1: through that bad teenage year and they want to be

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Speaker 1: your friend again. And you look forward to being older

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Speaker 1: and being able to share those memories with them. Maybe

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Speaker 1: they get married or have children or just whatever. And

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Speaker 1: now these parents have to go on without having their

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Speaker 1: only child, and what a different life than what they expected.

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Speaker 2: So then moving into the state argument, after the victim

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Speaker 2: impact statements, they had brought up restitution but asked for

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Speaker 2: some time to figure out what that's going to be.

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Speaker 2: And then the prosecutor also icknowledge the fact that not

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Speaker 2: everybody agreed with the decision they made to offer him

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Speaker 2: a plead deal. And then it seemed like the prosecutor

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Speaker 2: was crying. I understand, like as an extremely emotional person myself,

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Speaker 2: I understand I was tearing up the whole time. Honestly,

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Speaker 2: if you weren't staring at me, and I knew you

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Speaker 2: judge me to let myself cry a little bit because

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Speaker 2: it was really horrible. But I think as a seasoned

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Speaker 2: prosecutor and an attorney like you gotta like control yourself

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Speaker 2: a little bit.

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't think everybody's going to agree

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Speaker 1: with me on that, but I think to his like,

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Speaker 1: you know, I always want to try to do two

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Speaker 1: sides of the story. And to his defense, he's he's

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Speaker 1: a prosecutor in Idaho, right, and they they didn't have

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Speaker 1: It's not like he's in Philadelphia or New York City

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Speaker 1: where he's dealing with like multiple scumbags like this every

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Speaker 1: not on this level, but just scumbags all the time. Right.

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Speaker 1: It's like this case got the big, one of the

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Speaker 1: biggest cases of really all time, got dropped in his lap,

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Speaker 1: and he's not He wasn't going to win anyway. And

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Speaker 1: they know so many more details about the case than

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Speaker 1: we do. They saw their dead bodies, I mean, and

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Speaker 1: and if it was gruesome, and and you're not used

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Speaker 1: to seeing that, especially if you're not in an area

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Speaker 1: where you see a lot of crime and a lot

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Speaker 1: of murders and stuff like it. Clearly the case traumatized

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Speaker 1: him as well, and he did, even if I mean,

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Speaker 1: he did make a good point, was like, no matter

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Speaker 1: what Brian Coberger says, that's not going to change anything

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Speaker 1: for the families, and he's he's just right, like it's

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Speaker 1: just not. So he's in a tough spot where I mean,

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Speaker 1: ultimately most people would have said, I think he should

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Speaker 1: get the death penalty and that's it, but he wanted

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Speaker 1: to make sure at least he got the next best thing,

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Speaker 1: which he did. But he did feel some kind of

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Speaker 1: guilt about that because of just the way that he

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Speaker 1: was bringing up multiple times that some families weren't happy

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Speaker 1: with the outcome.

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Speaker 2: No, totally all right, So then we move on to

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Speaker 2: the judge who it's his turn to sentence him. So

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Speaker 2: I like that he used the phrase killers incompetence because,

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Speaker 2: as we know, pointing out his flaws was really seeming

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Speaker 2: that's when his nostrils seemed to be flaring when people

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Speaker 2: were pointing out the mistakes he made. He also used

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Speaker 2: this term slithered through the sliding glass door, and that

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Speaker 2: just gave me absolute chills, like so disgusting to think

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Speaker 2: about this.

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Speaker 1: Creeper because he's a snake that's why.

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Speaker 2: So they were also saying illegally cannot make him speak,

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Speaker 2: and the judge was saying, basically, he didn't think it

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Speaker 2: was worth I guess pushing it, making him speak as

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Speaker 2: part of a plea deal. I know that BTK had

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Speaker 2: to do something like that. But they kept bringing up

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Speaker 2: the point that like, why would we think he's telling

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Speaker 2: the truth, and why even make the families continue to

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Speaker 2: suffer and let him like basically let him stay in

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Speaker 2: the spotlight and have him have his say.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, and that's true, but now you're giving

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Speaker 1: him I mean, he probably has so many people knocking

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Speaker 1: down his door right now for an interview, and that

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Speaker 1: is that uplifts him. And maybe if there was I mean,

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Speaker 1: people would still want to interview him for sure, no

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Speaker 1: matter what. But now that there's so much mystery behind it,

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Speaker 1: we don't know why, especially after this press conference they

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Speaker 1: just had that they didn't tell us really anything more

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Speaker 1: than we've already known. It's like, there's so much mystery

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Speaker 1: around this case. Why did he did it? Why did

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Speaker 1: he do it? That's the number one thing. Do you

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Speaker 1: have any ideas? Did you have any links to see,

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Speaker 1: like figure out why he did it possibly there's so

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Speaker 1: many questions that are unanswered, and if we knew all that,

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Speaker 1: people might not be as interested to talk to him

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Speaker 1: because we already know the answer, And because we don't,

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Speaker 1: it just makes people this case is even more intriguing

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Speaker 1: because of it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so I thought it was interesting because the judge

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Speaker 2: also pointed out just because he pleaded guilty, he definitely

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Speaker 2: has not in the entire process shown any remorse at all.

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Speaker 2: So he decided he was going to quote forever remove

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Speaker 2: him from society. So his official sentencing on the count

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Speaker 2: one of burglary was ten years fixed with fifty thousand

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Speaker 2: dollars restitution, and then count two, three, four, and five,

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Speaker 2: which were the deaths of Madison, Kaylee, Zanna and Ethan

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Speaker 2: fixed life with no parole, fifty thousand dollars restitution per murder,

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Speaker 2: and a civil penalty of five thousand dollars per victim's family.

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Speaker 2: So they're going to run negatively.

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Speaker 1: We know that the de Menandez brothers had life in

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Speaker 1: prison without the possibility of parole sentences as well, and

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Speaker 1: now they are looking at possibly getting out. So it's

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Speaker 1: a false sense of security to say that this guy's

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Speaker 1: in jail for the rest of his life.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, because we had heard Matt Murphy talking about it

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Speaker 2: and he was saying, they can't waive appellet rights. And

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Speaker 2: you know, even though the appeal would violate the plea agreement,

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Speaker 2: laws change over time, and exactly the example you just

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Speaker 2: use with the Menendez brothers, it's like, we see how

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Speaker 2: that's going now, they might very well come out of jail,

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Speaker 2: and they had the same exact sentence. So I do

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Speaker 2: agree in some capacity. I mean, it was a good charge,

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Speaker 2: but I also want to like use this opportunity to

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Speaker 2: transition into the press conference after and how I'm happy

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Speaker 2: this didn't go to trial because it looks like their

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Speaker 2: case wasn't very strong.

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Speaker 1: It's actually alarming a lot of the things. There's just

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Speaker 1: a lot of things obviously that have been buzzing online

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Speaker 1: because of the gag order, and we just don't have

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Speaker 1: that much information, so they start asking questions. First, the

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Speaker 1: entire press conference, in my opinion, was terrible because they

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Speaker 1: didn't have microphones for the reporters, so you could barely

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Speaker 1: even hear what the questions were. And some of the

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Speaker 1: questions that they were asking were really really good, one

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Speaker 1: of them being hey, if Brian Coberger didn't leave the

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Speaker 1: nice sheath at the scene, would you have caught him?

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Speaker 1: And they say, oh, we believe we would have threw

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Speaker 1: the car, and I'm like, no, you wouldn't of. You

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Speaker 1: absolutely wouldn't of, and you would have had no connection

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Speaker 1: to him. So luckily he was a terrible criminal and

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Speaker 1: dropped the sheath of the weapon. Otherwise we might very

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Speaker 1: well if not only have not caught him, but that

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Speaker 1: would have empowered him to do it again to somebody else.

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Speaker 1: So what we got.

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Speaker 2: From this press conference basically was very minimal information. But

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Speaker 2: the investigator said that they know that the house was

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Speaker 2: chosen for a reason that they're not sure of, but

360
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Speaker 2: not a specific target. They don't know, not that he

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Speaker 2: didn't have a specific victim in mind, they just don't know.

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Speaker 1: I mean, they even admitted.

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Speaker 2: That he used software to wipe his devices, which they said,

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Speaker 2: we're pretty effective. So my mind, he could have been

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Speaker 2: stalking the victims and just did a really good job

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Speaker 2: of covering it up. Other information we have was it

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00:20:06,560 --> 00:20:09,640
Speaker 2: was revealed there was a second weapon used against Kaylee.

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Speaker 2: The investigator said that was up to the disclosure of

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Speaker 2: the family. I don't know what that means, let's not

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Speaker 2: forget they still haven't weird.

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Speaker 1: That was very weird.

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Speaker 2: It was weird, and I guess, as if we're recording this,

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Speaker 2: there are still a lot of documents under seal. So

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Speaker 2: they did say at the beginning of the press conference,

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Speaker 2: like we can't speak to everything, but the things they

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Speaker 2: were speaking to seemed like answers they had no matter

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Speaker 2: if the document was sealed or not. Cause they asked

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Speaker 2: about Brian Cooper's youth and they said, we can't speak

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Speaker 2: to that yet. They didn't say that about the target

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Speaker 2: or anything, or about the second weapon. I mean with

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Speaker 2: this second weapon, they specifically said the family needs to

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Speaker 2: tell you that information, which why I don't understand. They

383
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Speaker 2: also still haven't found the k bar knife. They were

384
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Speaker 2: getting into all this like how they tested soil and

385
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Speaker 2: thought there was a shovel and everything, and they still

386
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Speaker 2: haven't found it. If now that he's in jail, if

387
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Speaker 2: he's just gonna come out and say where he dumped it.

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Speaker 1: It just doesn't I thought that there was going to

389
00:21:09,000 --> 00:21:12,479
Speaker 1: be more of a revelation and it's it's it's actually

390
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Speaker 1: alarming to me because they said there's no connection on

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Speaker 1: social media with him stalking or anything like that, even

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Speaker 1: though that rumor was going around for a while and

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Speaker 1: if you noticed, Kaylee Gonzalvee's sister said he was stalking her.

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Speaker 1: So she's saying he was stalking, but they're saying there

395
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Speaker 1: was no evidence or does that just mean with the car,

396
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Speaker 1: like they do know that he was stalking the house itself.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just gonna say that. I mean, they

398
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Speaker 2: said they had information that he targeted that property, so like, yeah,

399
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Speaker 2: in a sense, he's stalking whoever's living in that house,

400
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Speaker 2: maybe not knowing who lives there in particular, but at

401
00:21:52,840 --> 00:21:53,400
Speaker 2: the Saint just.

402
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:55,879
Speaker 1: Because it was they said it was possibly just because

403
00:21:55,880 --> 00:21:56,919
Speaker 1: it was an easy target.

404
00:21:57,040 --> 00:21:59,719
Speaker 2: I just refused to believe that. He just was like, Oh,

405
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Speaker 2: I'm going to go to any house with people in

406
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Speaker 2: it and kill I don't know, all right.

407
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:10,600
Speaker 1: What about what about the pop a Roach situation? Do

408
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:11,320
Speaker 1: you know about that?

409
00:22:11,920 --> 00:22:13,200
Speaker 2: With the Instagram account?

410
00:22:13,280 --> 00:22:15,480
Speaker 1: Yeah, I don't know if it was Instagram or if

411
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:17,280
Speaker 1: it was Reddit or whatever it was, but there was

412
00:22:17,320 --> 00:22:20,679
Speaker 1: some kind of social media account with a person that

413
00:22:21,040 --> 00:22:26,000
Speaker 1: was giving details that hadn't yet come out about the case,

414
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:31,119
Speaker 1: and it just was eerily similar to Brian Coburger. And

415
00:22:31,280 --> 00:22:35,000
Speaker 1: that was literally the first question one of the reporters asked,

416
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Speaker 1: was was that Brian Coburger? And they said no.

417
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Speaker 2: Well, they said they didn't have any evidence to suggest

418
00:22:41,160 --> 00:22:43,520
Speaker 2: it was. I'm not trying to go down a conspiracy

419
00:22:43,640 --> 00:22:47,320
Speaker 2: theory like Cole, but if they're saying he effectively wiped

420
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Speaker 2: a lot of software off of his devices, then like,

421
00:22:49,520 --> 00:22:51,440
Speaker 2: how are we answering this definitively?

422
00:22:52,040 --> 00:22:54,640
Speaker 1: I don't know, but I've been saying from the beginning

423
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Speaker 1: since day one with this guy, that there's going to

424
00:22:57,280 --> 00:22:59,800
Speaker 1: be some crazy kind of twist, and I just don't

425
00:22:59,800 --> 00:23:03,800
Speaker 1: think it's over yet. I think that he's got He

426
00:23:04,080 --> 00:23:08,240
Speaker 1: just he just basically had the entire prosecution team say

427
00:23:08,280 --> 00:23:11,760
Speaker 1: they really didn't have anything on him. A lot of

428
00:23:11,760 --> 00:23:16,160
Speaker 1: it is circumstantial evidence, right, I mean they have they

429
00:23:16,280 --> 00:23:18,879
Speaker 1: have the DNA and all that stuff, but they don't

430
00:23:18,920 --> 00:23:21,199
Speaker 1: have I don't know that they'd be able to get

431
00:23:21,240 --> 00:23:24,919
Speaker 1: to death penalty just because there's so many people that

432
00:23:25,040 --> 00:23:27,120
Speaker 1: don't think he that he did it or he did

433
00:23:27,160 --> 00:23:28,200
Speaker 1: it alone, Like, but.

434
00:23:28,119 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 2: What's the circumstantial evidence beyond him driving by the house

435
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:33,960
Speaker 2: a bunch of times. If they're saying there was nothing

436
00:23:33,960 --> 00:23:34,199
Speaker 2: on it.

437
00:23:34,280 --> 00:23:36,639
Speaker 1: Well, that's what I'm saying. I mean, all they have

438
00:23:36,840 --> 00:23:39,280
Speaker 1: is the DNA, which we again we say thank god

439
00:23:39,280 --> 00:23:43,760
Speaker 1: that they left that there, right, But that just because

440
00:23:43,800 --> 00:23:45,800
Speaker 1: of all these different things that they have. I just

441
00:23:45,880 --> 00:23:49,280
Speaker 1: think that you know, we could talk about like oj

442
00:23:49,560 --> 00:23:53,400
Speaker 1: case and Kaylee Anthony's case and all of the even

443
00:23:53,440 --> 00:23:56,560
Speaker 1: the Diddy one, Like you think when you hear all

444
00:23:56,560 --> 00:23:58,879
Speaker 1: of the evidence, that this is just like a major

445
00:23:59,000 --> 00:24:02,680
Speaker 1: odull that he totally guilty, and then all of a sudden,

446
00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,480
Speaker 1: all you have to do is have one door. That's

447
00:24:05,520 --> 00:24:07,480
Speaker 1: just kind of like, I don't know, that's not like

448
00:24:07,640 --> 00:24:10,879
Speaker 1: that's a lot. And at this point, he's been given

449
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,520
Speaker 1: life in prison, So like what would stop him from

450
00:24:14,520 --> 00:24:17,320
Speaker 1: doing an appeal? It might get rid of the plea deal,

451
00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:19,680
Speaker 1: but like what would be the chances that they could

452
00:24:19,760 --> 00:24:22,719
Speaker 1: retry him again for death penalty and it would actually

453
00:24:22,760 --> 00:24:26,240
Speaker 1: be successful, Like he has nothing to lose at this point.

454
00:24:26,560 --> 00:24:27,360
Speaker 1: I don't know.

455
00:24:27,440 --> 00:24:29,240
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't think this is the last we're

456
00:24:29,240 --> 00:24:31,439
Speaker 2: hearing of this case. I wouldn't be surprised if he

457
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 2: filed for appeal. And you know, we're gonna so they

458
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:38,640
Speaker 2: said in the press conference that they're gonna start releasing

459
00:24:38,720 --> 00:24:41,440
Speaker 2: records as early as this afternoon, but it could take

460
00:24:41,520 --> 00:24:43,680
Speaker 2: up to a couple of months to get everything from

461
00:24:43,960 --> 00:24:47,080
Speaker 2: because it wasn't just the Moscow Police department. You have

462
00:24:47,119 --> 00:24:49,679
Speaker 2: state police, You have the FBI involved, you have Pennsylvania

463
00:24:49,760 --> 00:24:51,480
Speaker 2: Police involved, so like all of those.

464
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:54,359
Speaker 1: Are different medical examiner too. So yeah, but it looks

465
00:24:54,440 --> 00:24:56,520
Speaker 1: like the first thing that we're going to have access

466
00:24:56,560 --> 00:24:59,320
Speaker 1: to is the police reports, which I mean, we look

467
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:01,880
Speaker 1: at police reports all the time in the grosser room

468
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:04,639
Speaker 1: for all of our cases, and they're pretty extensive, sometimes

469
00:25:04,960 --> 00:25:08,080
Speaker 1: very extensive about it will tell us the conditions of

470
00:25:08,119 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: the body, exactly what happened when police arrived, what kind

471
00:25:11,040 --> 00:25:16,280
Speaker 1: of scene they walked into. So we'll keep you guys

472
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:19,760
Speaker 1: updated as soon as we get any information that we

473
00:25:19,880 --> 00:25:23,679
Speaker 1: could share with you about it. It's just it was

474
00:25:23,760 --> 00:25:26,640
Speaker 1: just a really heavy day and I you know, when

475
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:30,800
Speaker 1: when the sister had said what other weapon did you use?

476
00:25:31,040 --> 00:25:34,320
Speaker 1: And they did mention that her face was really broken,

477
00:25:35,320 --> 00:25:38,240
Speaker 1: Is it possible that he was using some kind of

478
00:25:38,440 --> 00:25:41,439
Speaker 1: a blunt thing because obviously.

479
00:25:40,960 --> 00:25:43,920
Speaker 2: Like vacuum had been mentioned, well.

480
00:25:44,119 --> 00:25:46,360
Speaker 1: Because somebody thought he brought a vacuum with them.

481
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:48,359
Speaker 2: I don't know why the vacuum kept coming up, But

482
00:25:48,400 --> 00:25:51,560
Speaker 2: it was coming up in conversation about the blunt objects,

483
00:25:51,640 --> 00:25:52,359
Speaker 2: so like did.

484
00:25:52,200 --> 00:25:56,640
Speaker 1: He there was It was because one of the roommates,

485
00:25:56,640 --> 00:25:59,719
Speaker 1: the surviving roommates, thought they saw him holding something and

486
00:25:59,760 --> 00:26:03,240
Speaker 1: they suspected that it was a vacuum based on her description,

487
00:26:03,840 --> 00:26:05,760
Speaker 1: and I believe when they went to his house to

488
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 1: search it, they found a similar small vacuum and they

489
00:26:09,560 --> 00:26:13,040
Speaker 1: decided that that it wasn't involved with the case. So

490
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:17,000
Speaker 1: that's where the whole vacuum thing came up. But let's say,

491
00:26:17,040 --> 00:26:20,840
Speaker 1: for example, he went in the room and didn't realize

492
00:26:20,840 --> 00:26:22,920
Speaker 1: that two girls were sleeping in the room together and

493
00:26:22,960 --> 00:26:25,440
Speaker 1: like picked up a piggybank and like smashed one of

494
00:26:25,480 --> 00:26:27,520
Speaker 1: them in the head with it to just get them

495
00:26:27,560 --> 00:26:30,560
Speaker 1: to chill out and stop screaming or whatever. That would

496
00:26:30,640 --> 00:26:32,600
Speaker 1: still be there at the scene and they would be

497
00:26:32,640 --> 00:26:35,320
Speaker 1: able to say, Okay, this is what caused this injury

498
00:26:35,359 --> 00:26:40,159
Speaker 1: on her face if her face was broken. If you recall,

499
00:26:40,560 --> 00:26:43,600
Speaker 1: there is a picture floating around where he has like

500
00:26:43,720 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: the thumbs up in the picture that he apparently took

501
00:26:46,880 --> 00:26:50,040
Speaker 1: a selfie like a psychopath right after he did the murders,

502
00:26:50,760 --> 00:26:53,640
Speaker 1: his hands don't appear that he was like beating somebody

503
00:26:53,680 --> 00:26:56,879
Speaker 1: down in a fight. That's all I'm saying. Like he

504
00:26:56,960 --> 00:27:00,720
Speaker 1: doesn't he doesn't really have evidence of that, at least

505
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 1: from the couple of photographs we've seen of him after

506
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:07,879
Speaker 1: the murder. So he's holding a thumbs up, right like

507
00:27:08,080 --> 00:27:10,520
Speaker 1: he if he's right dominant and holding up his right

508
00:27:10,520 --> 00:27:12,720
Speaker 1: hand and doing a thumbs up, you would see his

509
00:27:12,800 --> 00:27:16,280
Speaker 1: knuckles in the photograph and they would be bruised and

510
00:27:16,280 --> 00:27:18,320
Speaker 1: bloody if he used his hands to paunch her in

511
00:27:18,320 --> 00:27:21,440
Speaker 1: the face. So maybe that's why they're saying it was

512
00:27:21,480 --> 00:27:24,320
Speaker 1: a weapon, Like maybe he was wearing brass knuckles or

513
00:27:24,359 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: something else that caused that injury to her face. So

514
00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:32,640
Speaker 1: which if her bones are broken and stuff, that would

515
00:27:32,680 --> 00:27:35,480
Speaker 1: be a result of blunt force injury as opposed to

516
00:27:35,520 --> 00:27:37,520
Speaker 1: sharp force injury from the knife.

517
00:27:38,320 --> 00:27:40,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, Well, we're gonna keep following this because

518
00:27:40,960 --> 00:27:44,040
Speaker 2: obviously the records are coming out and it's it's gonna

519
00:27:44,080 --> 00:27:45,639
Speaker 2: take us a while to write it up because I

520
00:27:45,640 --> 00:27:47,520
Speaker 2: don't want to rush it and then be missing major

521
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:50,600
Speaker 2: pieces of information too. But we did want to talk

522
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,680
Speaker 2: about the new information we learned today. Also, I think

523
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:54,639
Speaker 2: it's interesting to point out that he might end up

524
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 2: in the same prison as Chad Dabell, we know, former

525
00:27:57,280 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 2: winner husband of Lori Valodabell. So I think that's always

526
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:05,760
Speaker 2: super interesting when two really high profile people end up

527
00:28:06,320 --> 00:28:08,879
Speaker 2: in the same jail, especially in a random ass place,

528
00:28:08,920 --> 00:28:11,120
Speaker 2: Like I don't, so do you think that.

529
00:28:11,960 --> 00:28:14,840
Speaker 1: I feel like, since he's so high profile, they're gonna

530
00:28:14,880 --> 00:28:17,880
Speaker 1: keep him. I don't. I don't know what they do,

531
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:23,600
Speaker 1: because didn't Jeffrey Dahmer got killed in prison, right, yeah,

532
00:28:23,680 --> 00:28:26,200
Speaker 1: But so I don't think I mean he should have

533
00:28:26,280 --> 00:28:31,040
Speaker 1: been I don't, especially because he was of his crimes

534
00:28:31,080 --> 00:28:33,720
Speaker 1: that that I always and I don't know because I've

535
00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: never worked in a prison, but you always see your

536
00:28:35,640 --> 00:28:38,360
Speaker 1: pedophiles and stuff have a time.

537
00:28:38,480 --> 00:28:42,920
Speaker 2: Typically they go after pedophiles, which Jeffrey Dahmer was assaulting

538
00:28:43,200 --> 00:28:48,600
Speaker 2: and murdering some underage guys. But I don't know in

539
00:28:48,640 --> 00:28:51,040
Speaker 2: this case. It's like this case is so high profile.

540
00:28:51,920 --> 00:28:54,800
Speaker 2: People are parents, They're gonna understand the feeling of losing

541
00:28:54,800 --> 00:28:55,840
Speaker 2: a kid as well, you know.

542
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,920
Speaker 1: So yeah, and they were they were like young, innocent,

543
00:28:59,360 --> 00:29:02,880
Speaker 1: pretty people, you know what I mean. Like it's just

544
00:29:03,160 --> 00:29:05,959
Speaker 1: I feel like he would definitely and he's so weird,

545
00:29:06,920 --> 00:29:11,320
Speaker 1: you know what I mean? Like nothing, There's nothing like

546
00:29:11,640 --> 00:29:14,640
Speaker 1: badass about this guy at all. He's just such a creep.

547
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 2: No, he really is. All right. Well, thank you guys

548
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,400
Speaker 2: so much. We're gonna try to keep up on the

549
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:21,960
Speaker 2: information as much as possible. We will see you for

550
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:26,000
Speaker 2: tomorrow's regular episode and then on our new YouTube live

551
00:29:26,000 --> 00:29:28,840
Speaker 2: installment for Grocery members only on Friday.

552
00:29:29,360 --> 00:29:32,600
Speaker 1: Yeah. Thanks guys for letting me rant about this. I

553
00:29:32,600 --> 00:29:35,480
Speaker 1: feel like I'll be able to relax now getting this

554
00:29:35,560 --> 00:29:42,760
Speaker 1: off my chest. Oh, thank you, Thank you for listening

555
00:29:42,800 --> 00:29:46,680
Speaker 1: to Mother nos Death. As a reminder, my training is

556
00:29:46,760 --> 00:29:50,920
Speaker 1: as a pathologist assistant. I have a master's level education

557
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:55,400
Speaker 1: and specialize in anatomy and pathology education. I am not

558
00:29:55,480 --> 00:29:58,400
Speaker 1: a doctor, and I have not diagnosed or treated anyone

559
00:29:58,560 --> 00:30:02,440
Speaker 1: dead or alive without the assistance of a licensed medical doctor.

560
00:30:03,720 --> 00:30:07,680
Speaker 1: This show, my website, and social media accounts are designed

561
00:30:07,720 --> 00:30:11,560
Speaker 1: to educate and inform people based on my experience working

562
00:30:11,600 --> 00:30:15,600
Speaker 1: in pathology, so they can make healthier decisions regarding their

563
00:30:15,640 --> 00:30:19,760
Speaker 1: life and well being. Always remember that science is changing

564
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:23,000
Speaker 1: every day, and the opinions expressed in this episode are

565
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,400
Speaker 1: based on my knowledge of those subjects at the time

566
00:30:25,440 --> 00:30:29,880
Speaker 1: of publication. If you are having a medical problem, have

567
00:30:30,000 --> 00:30:34,720
Speaker 1: a medical question, or having a medical emergency, please contact

568
00:30:34,720 --> 00:30:38,520
Speaker 1: your physician or visit an urgent care center, emergency room,

569
00:30:38,760 --> 00:30:42,800
Speaker 1: or hospital. Please rate, review, and subscribe to Mother Knows

570
00:30:42,880 --> 00:30:47,480
Speaker 1: Death on Apple, Spotify, YouTube, or anywhere you get podcasts.

571
00:30:48,000 --> 00:30:57,760
Speaker 1: Thanks