WEBVTT - #10 Rose

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<v Speaker 1>Hey, how are you?

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<v Speaker 2>I noticed that we're not Facebook friends or not? No,

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<v Speaker 2>I think.

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<v Speaker 3>Didn't you try to Facebook friend me?

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<v Speaker 4>I don't think I responded.

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<v Speaker 2>Do you know how embarrassing that is? You don't even

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<v Speaker 2>friend me?

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<v Speaker 1>Then we're better than Facebook friends, we're real life friends.

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<v Speaker 2>No, that's worse than Facebook friends because no one knows

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<v Speaker 2>we're friends. Let's go to the internet right now. Let's

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<v Speaker 2>friend each other at the exact same.

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<v Speaker 1>Time, get from each other. Because I have to go

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<v Speaker 1>to work right now.

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<v Speaker 2>Can't you take the computer with you.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm stepping out the door now and I have to

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<v Speaker 1>get on my.

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<v Speaker 2>Bicycle bounce on the handlebars. And then you could we

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<v Speaker 2>could we could facebook chat. Don't you think that's a

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<v Speaker 2>good idea? If, like, if we both friend each other

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<v Speaker 2>at the same time? No, why not?

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<v Speaker 5>One?

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<v Speaker 2>Two, three? And then we pressed the button? Ready hurtful

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<v Speaker 2>from Dimlin. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's

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<v Speaker 2>episode rose In nineteen sixty two, the Beatles had their

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<v Speaker 2>first number one hit, Love Me Do. A lesser known

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<v Speaker 2>fact is that just months earlier, the band kicked out

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<v Speaker 2>their original drummer Pete Best. The Beatles had their manager

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<v Speaker 2>do the job. The lads just don't want you in

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<v Speaker 2>the band anymore, he said.

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<v Speaker 4>No.

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<v Speaker 2>Further explanation was given, but over the years different theories emerged.

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<v Speaker 2>Pete Best didn't have the right hair, Pete Best wasn't

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<v Speaker 2>funny or artsy enough, he didn't dress right. For a

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<v Speaker 2>long time afterwards, Pete Best wondered why his old friends

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<v Speaker 2>had kicked him out. But he got married, started a family.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh bla de oh bla dah, life went on. That's

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<v Speaker 2>what happens. People get kicked out of bands, parties, jobs,

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<v Speaker 2>and eventually they stop searching for the reason why. Most

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<v Speaker 2>people do anyway, So.

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<v Speaker 1>I moved into my college dorm when I was seventeen.

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<v Speaker 1>I was an incoming freshman in the fall of two

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<v Speaker 1>thousand and one.

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<v Speaker 2>This is Rose and the school she was entering was

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<v Speaker 2>the University of North Florida.

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<v Speaker 1>And it's like a beachy community. I was like a

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<v Speaker 1>cool surfer chick. I dreve like an old Volvo that

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<v Speaker 1>was covered in like band stickers.

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<v Speaker 2>Rose was a rebel, and if all the teen movies

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<v Speaker 2>I'd watched during the mid eighties taught me anything about

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<v Speaker 2>campus life, it was that rebels don't mix with popular

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<v Speaker 2>kids and at the University of North Florida, nobody was

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<v Speaker 2>more popular than the sorority girls.

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<v Speaker 1>Will you like walk through school and they're set up

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<v Speaker 1>there and they're like along the sidewalks and.

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<v Speaker 3>They're like, are you interested in enjoying a sorority?

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<v Speaker 1>And I would just like blow by on my skateboard

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<v Speaker 1>and be like no.

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<v Speaker 3>I didn't think that I'd ever be affiliated with it.

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<v Speaker 2>With with with sorority life.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, with Greek life, with the sororities and the fraternities

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<v Speaker 1>and like the cool kids and their pop callers, like,

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't think that was for me. So the summer

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<v Speaker 1>after my freshman year, I meet this dude and I

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<v Speaker 1>start dating him, and he's in a fraternity and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>making friends with all these people in the Greek community

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<v Speaker 1>and I'm like, Oh, they're normal, they're not pretentious, they're

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<v Speaker 1>not weird. I started to dress like them, I started

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<v Speaker 1>to act like them, and I wanted to be accepted.

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<v Speaker 3>And the fall of.

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<v Speaker 1>My junior year, I rushed and I got a bid

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<v Speaker 1>from Alpha Kai and I joined.

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<v Speaker 2>Sorry, the name of the sorority.

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<v Speaker 3>Was, It's called Alpha Kai Omega.

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<v Speaker 1>Alpha Kai Omega, and we were the Theta Sigma chapter

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<v Speaker 1>Stata Sigma.

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<v Speaker 2>Chapter theta with the thh.

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<v Speaker 1>So it was the Theta Sigma chapter of Alpha ky Omega,

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<v Speaker 1>and it was at unf sororities.

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<v Speaker 2>It was a new and exciting world with such a

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<v Speaker 2>rich history. It turns out that Condolei's a Rice Enron Whistleblow,

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<v Speaker 2>or Sharon Watkins and Don Wells, who played Marianne on

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<v Speaker 2>Gilligan's Island, were all members of Alpha Chi and had

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<v Speaker 2>taken secret oaths to remain sisters for life. I listened

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<v Speaker 2>avidly as Rose explains what it means to be a

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<v Speaker 2>part of Alpha chi Omega Theta Sigma chapter.

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<v Speaker 1>We are classy ladies, We are sophisticated, we wear pearls,

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<v Speaker 1>we know our manners.

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<v Speaker 2>You know, like that, did they use the word classy.

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<v Speaker 3>You're not being classy?

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<v Speaker 4>Yeah?

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<v Speaker 3>Absolutely.

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<v Speaker 1>And they had like all these weird acronyms, like if

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<v Speaker 1>someone came up to you and whispered in your your pearl,

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<v Speaker 1>it was like the acronym for pearl, pearl, please engage

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<v Speaker 1>in acts resembling a lady.

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<v Speaker 2>So if someone says pearl in your that would mean

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<v Speaker 2>you would.

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<v Speaker 1>Begin to It would mean like, let's say I'm doing

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<v Speaker 1>a keg stand at a party and another sister is there.

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<v Speaker 1>Instead of being like, young lady, get down, write this instant,

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<v Speaker 1>because that's causing a scene. Now you're causing attention. Instead,

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<v Speaker 1>she's supposed to tap me on the shoulder and whisper

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<v Speaker 1>in my ear pearl, and then I'm supposed to be like, oh,

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<v Speaker 1>you're right, thank you for reminding me.

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<v Speaker 2>Rose took on new hobbies, scrap booking with her sorority sisters,

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<v Speaker 2>building floats for the homecoming parade, and dressing head to

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<v Speaker 2>toe in scarlet red and olive green, the Alpha Kyomega colors.

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<v Speaker 2>And while she'd never seen herself being cut out for

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<v Speaker 2>all of this sorority stuff, the crazy thing was it

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<v Speaker 2>actually made her really happy.

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<v Speaker 1>I was a gong ho, like I'm a participator. I

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<v Speaker 1>got really into it and just walking around school now

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<v Speaker 1>all of a sudden, like you know everybody, and everybody

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<v Speaker 1>knows you, and now you're in on the in side

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<v Speaker 1>jokes like I felt like I belonged, Like I went

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<v Speaker 1>from being like a disgruntled outsider to being like the

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<v Speaker 1>bubbly participant.

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<v Speaker 2>Rose and her sorority sisters did everything together, beach trips,

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<v Speaker 2>watching The Bachelor, one weekend, they all ran a campus

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<v Speaker 2>charity race together, but afterwards something felt a miss and.

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<v Speaker 1>I remember thinking like, man, I feel really tired after

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<v Speaker 1>that five K and I'm having a lot of trouble

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<v Speaker 1>sleeping and I keep sweating through my sheets at night.

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<v Speaker 2>Rose also noticed that her neck was swollen. She was

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<v Speaker 2>feeling achy and fatigued. After a few weeks, she went

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<v Speaker 2>to see a doctor.

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<v Speaker 1>And I said, could you take a look at my neck, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>I don't think something's right. And the nurse practitioner who

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<v Speaker 1>was treating me that day just like looked at me

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<v Speaker 1>in horror and.

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<v Speaker 3>Was like, you have to go to radiation right now.

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<v Speaker 1>And I was like, I have to make an appointment,

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<v Speaker 1>and she was like, no, I'm calling the second floor

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<v Speaker 1>and you're going to go get a CT scan right now.

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<v Speaker 3>So it was crazy.

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<v Speaker 1>They called it nodular sclerosing Hodgkins lymphoma. I had huge,

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<v Speaker 1>pronounced lymph notes all over my body. You could take

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<v Speaker 1>one look at me and it looked like my neck

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<v Speaker 1>and chest were just full of golf balls, like something

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<v Speaker 1>was wrong. By the time we started testing and staging,

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<v Speaker 1>I mean I was a stage three. This is like

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<v Speaker 1>big cake cancer. This is like shave your head, Rose,

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<v Speaker 1>like you've got real cancer. So I think around May

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<v Speaker 1>I started chemo.

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<v Speaker 2>Rose dropped out of her classes and quit her extracurriculars.

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<v Speaker 2>Her days filled up with doctor's appointments and chemotherapy. The

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<v Speaker 2>one bright note throughout was the support she got from

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<v Speaker 2>her sorority sisters. They took her to concerts in Jacksonville

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<v Speaker 2>Jaguar football games, they sold hot pink ribbons in the

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<v Speaker 2>quad and raised thousands of dollars for Rose's treatment. Alpha

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<v Speaker 2>Kai took care of Rose, and Rose was dedicated to

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<v Speaker 2>Alpha Kai. She was on the executive board in charge

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<v Speaker 2>of recruiting new members, and even through her cancer, she

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<v Speaker 2>kept up with her work.

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<v Speaker 1>And new girls are coming through and they have to

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<v Speaker 1>decide which sorority they want to join. And now Alpha

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<v Speaker 1>Kai has like one hell of a tale to tell.

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<v Speaker 1>Now we're not just a regular sorority. We're the sorority

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<v Speaker 1>with the cancer girl and we're saving her life.

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<v Speaker 2>And that was something that they led with, that was

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<v Speaker 2>actually something that was made explicit.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh, I got up there with my bald head and

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<v Speaker 1>gave a speech and cried every time about how my

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<v Speaker 1>sisters were saving my life.

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<v Speaker 2>Rose was lucky. By the spring of her senior year,

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<v Speaker 2>her cancer went into remission for the first time in

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<v Speaker 2>more than a year. She felt like a normal college kid.

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<v Speaker 1>I just had a lot of fun that semester. My

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<v Speaker 1>hair's starting to grow back, I'm starting to get my

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<v Speaker 1>energy back. I'm starting to feel like a normal person,

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<v Speaker 1>and like, now I'm not just going to a party

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<v Speaker 1>to like, you know, make sure I'm getting out of

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<v Speaker 1>the house, like now I want a party, Like now

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<v Speaker 1>I want to have fun.

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<v Speaker 3>So I did. I felt like I deserved it.

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<v Speaker 2>Then one night, after being cancer free for five months,

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<v Speaker 2>Rose went to Alpha Kai's weekly meeting, which I met

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<v Speaker 2>in an old auditorium on campus.

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<v Speaker 1>And I come to the meeting and they're like, hey, Rose,

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<v Speaker 1>can you stay after We need to talk to you.

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<v Speaker 1>So they clear everybody out and now it's just like

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<v Speaker 1>five or six women and me, and they're like, all right, Rose,

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<v Speaker 1>like this is gonna be tough. We're gonna have to

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<v Speaker 1>ask you to resign. And I was like, excuse me, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>we're gonna have to ask you to resign. And I

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<v Speaker 1>thought they meant from my position, my officer position. I'm like,

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<v Speaker 1>you're asking me to step down? As VP recruitment, like

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<v Speaker 1>the new girls love me, I'm great with the new girls.

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<v Speaker 1>Why I've got this marketing on lock And they're like, oh, no, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>we want you to resign from the organization. We want

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<v Speaker 1>you to resign from Alpha Kai.

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<v Speaker 2>And I lost it.

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<v Speaker 1>It's like you know that feeling when someone's breaking up

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<v Speaker 1>with you, and like you get that cold feeling in

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<v Speaker 1>your chest and you know that someone's about to look

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<v Speaker 1>at you and say like this isn't Yeah. It was

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<v Speaker 1>like that times one hundred, Like now a hundred of

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<v Speaker 1>my friends were all breaking up with me in a

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<v Speaker 1>very methodical way, and I didn't see it coming, and

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<v Speaker 1>I just kept.

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<v Speaker 3>Saying, why, what do you mean you want me out?

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<v Speaker 1>And this is when they just all of a sudden,

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<v Speaker 1>it was like these women I'd known for years, they

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<v Speaker 1>were strangers and there was no compassion, there was no kindness.

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<v Speaker 3>It was you know what you did, Rose, you know

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<v Speaker 3>what you did?

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<v Speaker 1>And I was like, no, no, you have to tell

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<v Speaker 1>me what did I do? Did something bad happen?

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<v Speaker 2>Rose?

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<v Speaker 3>We're not getting into it. You know what you did?

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm just like, no, no, I don't know what

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<v Speaker 3>I did.

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<v Speaker 1>And at this point I am so distraught. I think

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<v Speaker 1>I'm like hyperventilating and crying. I think I'm ugly crying.

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<v Speaker 1>I think, like snaw, it's just bubbling out of my

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<v Speaker 1>nose and I don't have the wherewithal to demand answers.

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<v Speaker 3>And I'm like, so that's it, We're done here.

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<v Speaker 1>You want me out and they're like, yeah, as of tonight,

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<v Speaker 1>you are no longer affiliated with Alpha ky Omega.

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<v Speaker 2>She was getting straight a's, she was on the student council,

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<v Speaker 2>She never done anything illegal, but Rose was out and

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<v Speaker 2>no one would tell.

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<v Speaker 3>Her why No one has ever told me?

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<v Speaker 2>And did you ever pursue it further?

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<v Speaker 3>God, yes, for years?

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<v Speaker 1>Like, hey guys, it's been five years since we graduated college.

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<v Speaker 1>I know this is kind of weird, but I still

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<v Speaker 1>think about it. Does anyone want to tell me? I've

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<v Speaker 1>done the thing on Facebook where I've made the big

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<v Speaker 1>Facebook post where I'm like, all right, does everyone remember

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<v Speaker 1>when Rose got kicked out Alpha Kai, Like if you

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<v Speaker 1>or anyone you know has any information, like I'm still

0:11:51.559 --> 0:11:54.360
<v Speaker 1>dying to know, And then like dozens of my friends

0:11:54.360 --> 0:11:55.880
<v Speaker 1>are like, oh, I'm following this post.

0:11:55.920 --> 0:11:56.320
<v Speaker 2>What was it?

0:11:56.360 --> 0:11:56.720
<v Speaker 3>What was it?

0:11:56.760 --> 0:12:00.560
<v Speaker 1>And still to this day, no answers like you're racking

0:12:00.559 --> 0:12:02.199
<v Speaker 1>your brain. I'm like, did I get blackout drunk and

0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:03.360
<v Speaker 1>sleep with someone's boyfriend?

0:12:04.840 --> 0:12:07.559
<v Speaker 2>Did you ever see any other of the sisters get

0:12:07.640 --> 0:12:08.079
<v Speaker 2>kicked out?

0:12:08.679 --> 0:12:09.599
<v Speaker 1>No?

0:12:09.600 --> 0:12:09.760
<v Speaker 4>No?

0:12:09.920 --> 0:12:13.000
<v Speaker 1>And that's the thing, is like, Okay, let's not mince

0:12:13.040 --> 0:12:15.040
<v Speaker 1>words here, like was Rosea party girl?

0:12:15.320 --> 0:12:15.560
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:12:15.760 --> 0:12:17.440
<v Speaker 3>Were there girls who were way worse than me?

0:12:17.920 --> 0:12:18.559
<v Speaker 2>Absolutely?

0:12:18.640 --> 0:12:20.280
<v Speaker 3>And did they get kicked out? Never?

0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.160
<v Speaker 2>Does Rose refer to herself in the third person? Yes,

0:12:24.440 --> 0:12:28.120
<v Speaker 2>does you present the puzzling riddle? Absolutely? And would Jonathan

0:12:28.160 --> 0:12:35.440
<v Speaker 2>quit before solving it? Never. Rose's college memories have all

0:12:35.480 --> 0:12:38.800
<v Speaker 2>been tainted by that one day twelve years ago, but

0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:42.280
<v Speaker 2>her ex sorority sisters are now adult women in their thirties.

0:12:42.720 --> 0:12:47.800
<v Speaker 2>They had to be past the college drama. So after

0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:50.280
<v Speaker 2>Rose and I part, I begin reaching out to them

0:12:50.360 --> 0:12:56.400
<v Speaker 2>for their help. Hey, Amanda, this is Jonathan Goldstein. Trish,

0:12:56.840 --> 0:12:58.680
<v Speaker 2>I've been trying to get in touch Anita. I was

0:12:58.679 --> 0:12:59.360
<v Speaker 2>trying to reach you.

0:13:00.400 --> 0:13:00.559
<v Speaker 5>Zoe.

0:13:00.679 --> 0:13:04.280
<v Speaker 2>This is Jonathan goldste we'll speak soon, Claire. I phone

0:13:04.320 --> 0:13:05.080
<v Speaker 2>them in their cars.

0:13:05.440 --> 0:13:09.199
<v Speaker 1>Hi, Hey, I've got my daughter walking into BALLEI class short.

0:13:09.280 --> 0:13:11.839
<v Speaker 2>No, of course, I phone them in their homes. Do

0:13:11.880 --> 0:13:12.520
<v Speaker 2>you have a minute to.

0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.719
<v Speaker 1>Speak, I do, I have a toddler to say, you.

0:13:15.679 --> 0:13:17.720
<v Speaker 2>Know, oh yeah, no, that's fine, Hi on.

0:13:17.840 --> 0:13:20.640
<v Speaker 1>Sugar, because she just pole the bag of jelly being

0:13:22.080 --> 0:13:24.880
<v Speaker 1>But yes, no, I cannot pick you up. I'm not

0:13:24.920 --> 0:13:25.440
<v Speaker 1>picking you up.

0:13:25.520 --> 0:13:33.320
<v Speaker 6>No, I'm sorry.

0:13:33.360 --> 0:13:36.200
<v Speaker 2>But not one of Rose's ex sorority sisters can tell

0:13:36.240 --> 0:13:40.080
<v Speaker 2>me why she'd been kicked out. Some say they don't remember,

0:13:40.320 --> 0:13:44.319
<v Speaker 2>it was so long ago. Others say they never knew why.

0:13:44.559 --> 0:13:47.280
<v Speaker 2>There were nearly one hundred women in Alpha Kai, but

0:13:47.400 --> 0:13:49.920
<v Speaker 2>only a handful had been in the room when Rose

0:13:50.080 --> 0:13:53.199
<v Speaker 2>was kicked out. One of these women was named Amber.

0:13:53.720 --> 0:13:56.560
<v Speaker 2>When I phone her, she's busy but tells me to

0:13:56.600 --> 0:14:00.920
<v Speaker 2>call back, So a few days later I do, Hey, Amber,

0:14:01.040 --> 0:14:04.760
<v Speaker 2>this is Jonathan Goldstein. I think we spoke briefly some

0:14:04.840 --> 0:14:11.320
<v Speaker 2>time ago. Hello. I call back, and Amber apologizes for

0:14:11.360 --> 0:14:14.160
<v Speaker 2>our being disconnected, but when I ask her why Rose

0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:20.120
<v Speaker 2>was kicked out again, the line goes dead. This is

0:14:20.160 --> 0:14:23.720
<v Speaker 2>odd otter Still is a conversation with an Alpha Chi

0:14:23.880 --> 0:14:27.800
<v Speaker 2>sister a year younger than Rose. She says she inherited

0:14:27.840 --> 0:14:31.280
<v Speaker 2>all the disciplinary documents from Rose's year, but that one

0:14:31.320 --> 0:14:35.200
<v Speaker 2>file was missing, the one detailing why Rose had been

0:14:35.280 --> 0:14:49.680
<v Speaker 2>kicked out. Things were beginning to feel kolludy. Hello, oh

0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:55.440
<v Speaker 2>hey Rose, Hi. I call Rose to update her, but

0:14:55.480 --> 0:14:58.000
<v Speaker 2>it seems she's already gotten wind of my doings.

0:14:59.040 --> 0:15:02.240
<v Speaker 1>So I think you must have been reaching out to

0:15:02.360 --> 0:15:04.800
<v Speaker 1>a bunch of different members of Alpha Kai.

0:15:05.480 --> 0:15:08.560
<v Speaker 2>Word had started getting around on Facebook about some guy

0:15:08.760 --> 0:15:13.600
<v Speaker 2>snooping around on Rose's behalf. Quickly a consensus was reached

0:15:14.240 --> 0:15:15.640
<v Speaker 2>shut this guy out.

0:15:18.560 --> 0:15:20.600
<v Speaker 1>Just the way that some of the girls were replying

0:15:20.640 --> 0:15:23.359
<v Speaker 1>in the thread. It just felt like twelve years.

0:15:23.080 --> 0:15:25.480
<v Speaker 3>Hadn't even passed And how do you mean?

0:15:26.480 --> 0:15:29.800
<v Speaker 1>It was just like immediately this whole group dynamic took place,

0:15:29.840 --> 0:15:32.160
<v Speaker 1>and all of a sudden, instead of people acting like

0:15:32.280 --> 0:15:35.480
<v Speaker 1>mature adults who are in their thirties, it was this

0:15:35.520 --> 0:15:38.360
<v Speaker 1>whole like mom mentality of this is sketchy, we shouldn't respond.

0:15:38.360 --> 0:15:40.360
<v Speaker 1>And then everyone just started to follow in line and

0:15:40.400 --> 0:15:42.440
<v Speaker 1>be like, yeah it was sketchy. Yeah, I'm not.

0:15:42.320 --> 0:15:46.200
<v Speaker 2>Gonna call them, Yeah, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna have

0:15:46.280 --> 0:15:47.480
<v Speaker 2>to go over their heads.

0:15:48.680 --> 0:16:01.640
<v Speaker 4>How Alpha Kaya men a headquarters this is season.

0:16:02.600 --> 0:16:06.200
<v Speaker 2>The Alpha Kai Omega National Headquarters is a large brick

0:16:06.240 --> 0:16:08.920
<v Speaker 2>building at the end of a long tree lined cool

0:16:08.920 --> 0:16:13.520
<v Speaker 2>de sac in Indianapolis, Indiana. It oversees all Alpha ki

0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Omega sororities across the country. Anytime a sorority kicks someone out,

0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:22.360
<v Speaker 2>it has to file a report with headquarters. I asked Susan,

0:16:22.400 --> 0:16:26.400
<v Speaker 2>the receptionist, if there might be documents that explain Rose's termination.

0:16:27.040 --> 0:16:29.000
<v Speaker 4>Okay, yes, I'm sure there are.

0:16:29.600 --> 0:16:32.640
<v Speaker 2>Okay, great? And in your experience, is this something that

0:16:32.760 --> 0:16:36.720
<v Speaker 2>comes up sometimes where people want to know why they

0:16:36.800 --> 0:16:38.680
<v Speaker 2>might have been kicked out of a sorority or is

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:39.280
<v Speaker 2>this uncommon?

0:16:39.520 --> 0:16:41.480
<v Speaker 4>I would think most people would know why.

0:16:41.920 --> 0:16:46.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what happened in her case? This is a woman

0:16:46.080 --> 0:16:48.520
<v Speaker 2>by the name of Rose Shapiro. And how do you

0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.560
<v Speaker 2>spell her last name Shapiro? I think it must be

0:16:51.600 --> 0:16:53.040
<v Speaker 2>spelled s h A.

0:16:54.920 --> 0:16:55.880
<v Speaker 4>S H.

0:16:58.440 --> 0:17:15.320
<v Speaker 2>No sha h p s and Peter I R O H.

0:17:18.080 --> 0:17:18.760
<v Speaker 4>Are you okay?

0:17:18.840 --> 0:17:19.080
<v Speaker 6>Yes?

0:17:19.320 --> 0:17:20.919
<v Speaker 4>I did sign her in here?

0:17:21.520 --> 0:17:21.680
<v Speaker 5>Oh?

0:17:21.800 --> 0:17:22.159
<v Speaker 2>Okay?

0:17:23.400 --> 0:17:23.679
<v Speaker 4>Does it?

0:17:23.760 --> 0:17:27.520
<v Speaker 2>Does it say anything with alongside her name?

0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:34.000
<v Speaker 4>I'm just looking at a status So you're.

0:17:33.720 --> 0:17:36.400
<v Speaker 2>So then there is some information alongside her name.

0:17:38.720 --> 0:17:43.160
<v Speaker 4>I'm not gonna because I mean, I can't say anything

0:17:43.200 --> 0:17:47.760
<v Speaker 4>about this member. I wouldn't know her at all. And

0:17:49.160 --> 0:17:52.720
<v Speaker 4>you know, and you're an outsider, you're not the member.

0:17:56.040 --> 0:17:59.520
<v Speaker 2>What if Rose Shapiro were to call you herself, would

0:17:59.600 --> 0:18:01.359
<v Speaker 2>she be able to find out the information?

0:18:03.680 --> 0:18:05.080
<v Speaker 4>I would think so sure.

0:18:06.400 --> 0:18:14.560
<v Speaker 2>Mm hm, well we'll just have to see. After the break,

0:18:14.840 --> 0:18:18.280
<v Speaker 2>a couple of outsiders try to get some inside information.

0:18:32.560 --> 0:18:38.320
<v Speaker 4>Hey Rose, Yes, Hi, Hi, how's.

0:18:38.080 --> 0:18:41.520
<v Speaker 2>It going good? You ready to get some answers? I

0:18:41.600 --> 0:18:44.720
<v Speaker 2>tell Rose about my call with Susan the receptionist, and

0:18:44.800 --> 0:18:48.200
<v Speaker 2>we hatch a plan for contacting headquarters. I think I'll

0:18:48.200 --> 0:18:50.720
<v Speaker 2>call it and connect you and I'll just be quiet.

0:18:51.359 --> 0:18:53.639
<v Speaker 1>All right, let's call. I'm ready. I'm ready for this.

0:18:54.800 --> 0:19:07.680
<v Speaker 7>Okay, I'm going to call right now, Alpha coy O

0:19:07.840 --> 0:19:08.840
<v Speaker 7>Mega Headquarters.

0:19:08.920 --> 0:19:09.679
<v Speaker 4>This is the season.

0:19:11.240 --> 0:19:13.240
<v Speaker 1>Hi, Susan, my name is Rose.

0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:16.720
<v Speaker 2>And lying on my stomach on the floor of the

0:19:16.800 --> 0:19:20.680
<v Speaker 2>darkened studio, I finally feel like a real life popular

0:19:20.720 --> 0:19:24.320
<v Speaker 2>girl as I play with the phone cord and silently

0:19:24.440 --> 0:19:27.920
<v Speaker 2>nibble from a pan of brownies. Rose explains what happened.

0:19:28.240 --> 0:19:31.080
<v Speaker 1>Was ejected from Alpha Kai. I was a member of

0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.280
<v Speaker 1>Alpha coy O Mega, the Theta Sigma chapter.

0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:38.480
<v Speaker 4>Okay, and what's your name is Rose Shapiro? Okay, all right,

0:19:38.560 --> 0:19:40.960
<v Speaker 4>I'm gonna give you the Mandy tar water.

0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:45.360
<v Speaker 1>Okay, before you transfer. I did have just one more

0:19:45.480 --> 0:19:48.680
<v Speaker 1>question for you. Is there any way that you can

0:19:48.800 --> 0:19:52.360
<v Speaker 1>just tell from a general perspective if I'm considered as

0:19:52.400 --> 0:19:54.920
<v Speaker 1>a member in good standing or as a former member?

0:19:55.000 --> 0:19:56.080
<v Speaker 1>Is there even is there anyone?

0:19:57.200 --> 0:19:57.400
<v Speaker 8>Yeah?

0:19:57.440 --> 0:19:59.359
<v Speaker 4>I think it's I think it says that you're not

0:19:59.400 --> 0:20:02.760
<v Speaker 4>in good stand. I wish I could help you, but

0:20:02.960 --> 0:20:07.199
<v Speaker 4>I don't know that. Let me see here. Mendy is

0:20:07.359 --> 0:20:11.320
<v Speaker 4>out this afternoon, but she's working tomorrow. Why don't we

0:20:11.359 --> 0:20:16.399
<v Speaker 4>leave a message with Mendy. Sure, yeah, I think you

0:20:16.400 --> 0:20:17.120
<v Speaker 4>should do that.

0:20:19.680 --> 0:20:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Rose leaves a message with this Mendy tar Water. When

0:20:23.000 --> 0:20:25.679
<v Speaker 2>she doesn't hear back. After a week, we call again.

0:20:26.600 --> 0:20:29.879
<v Speaker 2>Over the next month, we keep calling with Rose leaving

0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.520
<v Speaker 2>voicemails and me scraping weeks old brownie crust from the

0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:38.440
<v Speaker 2>pan while listening in for emotional support. Okay, you're on Rose.

0:20:39.080 --> 0:20:40.960
<v Speaker 4>At the tone, please record your message.

0:20:42.680 --> 0:20:45.560
<v Speaker 2>My name is Rose Susan. The receptionist passes her off

0:20:45.600 --> 0:20:48.359
<v Speaker 2>to other people at headquarters. Someone named Gina.

0:20:48.920 --> 0:20:50.359
<v Speaker 4>Let's try Gina hold on.

0:20:50.600 --> 0:20:55.000
<v Speaker 7>Then someone named Eliza Eliza Payne is not available to

0:20:55.080 --> 0:20:55.800
<v Speaker 7>take your call.

0:20:56.320 --> 0:20:59.080
<v Speaker 4>Please leave a message after the tone.

0:21:00.040 --> 0:21:03.040
<v Speaker 1>Hikia, Elizah, this is Roe Shapiro trying you again.

0:21:03.280 --> 0:21:06.680
<v Speaker 2>One morning, we phone, only to discover that Susan, the receptionist,

0:21:07.119 --> 0:21:10.120
<v Speaker 2>has been disappeared, possibly for saying too.

0:21:10.080 --> 0:21:13.520
<v Speaker 4>Much Alfa Comega headquarters. This is Cynthia or.

0:21:13.600 --> 0:21:14.680
<v Speaker 2>Susan had the day off?

0:21:15.160 --> 0:21:17.919
<v Speaker 1>Hi Cynthia. My name is Rose Shapiro and I'm a

0:21:17.960 --> 0:21:18.560
<v Speaker 1>former member.

0:21:18.800 --> 0:21:22.359
<v Speaker 2>Cynthia. She sent Rose right back to Mendy Tarwater.

0:21:23.680 --> 0:21:26.639
<v Speaker 1>Hi, Mini, this is Rose Shapiro. I'm the member.

0:21:26.840 --> 0:21:27.400
<v Speaker 5>In the end.

0:21:27.560 --> 0:21:30.720
<v Speaker 2>After months of phone calls, Rose finally hears back from

0:21:30.760 --> 0:21:35.560
<v Speaker 2>Alpha Coyomega headquarters. They pass along a single document, a

0:21:35.640 --> 0:21:39.520
<v Speaker 2>letter dated April twenty first, two thousand and five. The

0:21:39.600 --> 0:21:43.800
<v Speaker 2>letter is brief, plainly stating that Rose Shapiro resigned from

0:21:43.880 --> 0:21:47.680
<v Speaker 2>Alpha Kyomega of her own accord. They have no other

0:21:47.760 --> 0:21:53.240
<v Speaker 2>information to share. We know now definitely that the only

0:21:53.359 --> 0:21:56.520
<v Speaker 2>way that we're going to get anywhere with this is

0:21:56.560 --> 0:22:02.119
<v Speaker 2>actually by finding a sorority girl who was there and

0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:02.960
<v Speaker 2>willing to talk.

0:22:04.920 --> 0:22:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Ah.

0:22:06.920 --> 0:22:10.080
<v Speaker 2>Rose's confidence in me was waning. While she used to

0:22:10.160 --> 0:22:13.159
<v Speaker 2>drop everything for one of my updates, now she was

0:22:13.200 --> 0:22:17.920
<v Speaker 2>sounding bored and distracted. What are you doing right now?

0:22:18.119 --> 0:22:21.320
<v Speaker 1>I'm cutting potatoes? Yeah, I'm cutting potatoes. I'm about to

0:22:21.320 --> 0:22:22.359
<v Speaker 1>make some mashed potatoes.

0:22:22.359 --> 0:22:25.400
<v Speaker 2>Okay, but the cut the chopping might not be so great.

0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:36.560
<v Speaker 2>Recorded Fine, my calls were becoming a nuisance. Rose, What

0:22:36.560 --> 0:22:37.679
<v Speaker 2>are you cleaning out your fridge?

0:22:38.160 --> 0:22:38.320
<v Speaker 6>Oh?

0:22:38.520 --> 0:22:40.640
<v Speaker 1>I'm done.

0:22:41.040 --> 0:22:44.439
<v Speaker 2>I was starting to feel done too. I had nothing.

0:22:45.320 --> 0:22:47.360
<v Speaker 2>But a couple of weeks later, I get a call

0:22:47.480 --> 0:22:56.800
<v Speaker 2>from one of Rose's ex rority sisters, a woman named Tricia. Initially,

0:22:57.160 --> 0:22:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Tricia hadn't been willing to talk, but over the month

0:23:00.400 --> 0:23:02.600
<v Speaker 2>she thought about it and had a change of heart.

0:23:03.359 --> 0:23:05.920
<v Speaker 2>I call Rose to share with her our good fortune.

0:23:06.840 --> 0:23:10.760
<v Speaker 2>As soon as you finished scrubbing all your cookie pants, I'm.

0:23:10.560 --> 0:23:14.280
<v Speaker 1>Not scrubbing any pants, and I'm not chopping any potatoes.

0:23:14.400 --> 0:23:19.639
<v Speaker 2>All right. So Tricia wasn't just any old sorority sister.

0:23:20.080 --> 0:23:21.880
<v Speaker 2>She was one of the six girls in the room

0:23:21.920 --> 0:23:25.160
<v Speaker 2>who kicked Rose out of Alpha Kai. And not only that,

0:23:25.600 --> 0:23:28.679
<v Speaker 2>Tricia and Rose joined Alpha Kai around the same time,

0:23:28.960 --> 0:23:32.600
<v Speaker 2>and people saw them as partners in crime, goofing at parties,

0:23:32.800 --> 0:23:36.040
<v Speaker 2>singing show tunes. Only they knew she was someone Rose

0:23:36.080 --> 0:23:40.119
<v Speaker 2>that legitimately liked and trusted. I explained to Rose that

0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:42.960
<v Speaker 2>since Tricia was the only person willing to speak to us.

0:23:43.320 --> 0:23:45.520
<v Speaker 2>She might be our last chance to get an answer.

0:23:46.119 --> 0:23:49.919
<v Speaker 2>So during the conversation we'd need to tread lightly, and

0:23:49.960 --> 0:23:53.800
<v Speaker 2>I sense that treading lightly might not be Rose's strongest suit.

0:23:58.000 --> 0:24:03.320
<v Speaker 2>The situation required coaxing, possibly even some cajoling, and caution,

0:24:04.040 --> 0:24:07.960
<v Speaker 2>plenty of caution. We would need the perfect moment for

0:24:08.080 --> 0:24:11.080
<v Speaker 2>Rose to spring the question that's been gnawing at her

0:24:11.119 --> 0:24:15.919
<v Speaker 2>for years? Why did you kick me out? So I

0:24:16.000 --> 0:24:18.640
<v Speaker 2>decide that a code word is in order, a word

0:24:18.680 --> 0:24:21.520
<v Speaker 2>I can use to signal to Rose that the time

0:24:21.840 --> 0:24:26.000
<v Speaker 2>is right. I have plenty of experience with code words.

0:24:26.440 --> 0:24:28.800
<v Speaker 2>Dinner party going too late and I want people out

0:24:28.840 --> 0:24:31.840
<v Speaker 2>of my home. Medicine balls, I'll say to the misses,

0:24:32.119 --> 0:24:34.879
<v Speaker 2>and she'll produce a CD of my old spoken word

0:24:34.920 --> 0:24:38.400
<v Speaker 2>band mattress shopping and need to communicate my bottom line

0:24:38.440 --> 0:24:43.280
<v Speaker 2>while avoiding the prying ears of predatory mattress salesman. Medicine balls,

0:24:43.440 --> 0:24:49.080
<v Speaker 2>I'll say, So, every situation requires its own special code word,

0:24:49.520 --> 0:24:52.280
<v Speaker 2>and the hours I'd spend crafting this one had been

0:24:52.280 --> 0:24:52.959
<v Speaker 2>well worth it.

0:24:54.000 --> 0:24:56.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, what's the code work going to be?

0:24:56.520 --> 0:24:56.600
<v Speaker 5>So?

0:24:56.720 --> 0:25:01.560
<v Speaker 2>Okay? So I was thinking maybe medicine balls.

0:25:03.480 --> 0:25:06.959
<v Speaker 1>No, that's so awkward to insert into the conversations.

0:25:08.200 --> 0:25:12.240
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I scrambled together my list of Plan B code

0:25:12.240 --> 0:25:17.520
<v Speaker 2>words toilet bowl, toilet plunger, turkey, toilet o de toilette.

0:25:18.040 --> 0:25:19.080
<v Speaker 1>That's very Canadian.

0:25:19.400 --> 0:25:21.000
<v Speaker 2>How about how about if I were to say without

0:25:21.000 --> 0:25:23.800
<v Speaker 2>a do or a don't? Is that something that people say? Oh,

0:25:23.840 --> 0:25:25.600
<v Speaker 2>I'd say. Well, for the better part of an hour,

0:25:25.880 --> 0:25:30.160
<v Speaker 2>Rose and I bat around ideas. Yes, we have no tomatoes, boy,

0:25:30.240 --> 0:25:34.600
<v Speaker 2>or my dog's barking. Some people call me Maurice. Finally

0:25:35.119 --> 0:25:38.040
<v Speaker 2>Rose is satisfied. How about I say, and so it goes.

0:25:38.080 --> 0:25:41.359
<v Speaker 2>That's what I'll show and so it goes, and so

0:25:41.440 --> 0:25:43.520
<v Speaker 2>it goes. Okay, I'm writing that down. So that's going

0:25:43.560 --> 0:25:45.880
<v Speaker 2>to be our code word. Okay, So when I say

0:25:45.960 --> 0:25:51.160
<v Speaker 2>and so it goes, you're gonna say, you know, Tricia,

0:25:51.480 --> 0:25:57.000
<v Speaker 2>like what just what happened? We had a plan, we

0:25:57.040 --> 0:26:02.679
<v Speaker 2>had a code word. It was time for another word

0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:19.199
<v Speaker 2>from our sponsors. Hello, Hey, Tricia, Hey, so I have

0:26:19.400 --> 0:26:22.320
<v Speaker 2>I have Rose on the line. I think you guys

0:26:22.320 --> 0:26:23.080
<v Speaker 2>can hear each other.

0:26:23.200 --> 0:26:25.560
<v Speaker 7>Rose, Hi, Hi.

0:26:28.119 --> 0:26:31.000
<v Speaker 2>It's been years since they've spoken, So Rose and Tricia

0:26:31.119 --> 0:26:35.720
<v Speaker 2>catch up, but mostly they reminisce about homecoming, the big

0:26:35.760 --> 0:26:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Talent Show how they were both awarded Best New Sorority Member.

0:26:40.080 --> 0:26:42.000
<v Speaker 6>And they were like, we've never done this before, but

0:26:43.280 --> 0:26:43.840
<v Speaker 6>here you go.

0:26:44.040 --> 0:26:46.840
<v Speaker 1>Oh my god, I totally forgot about that. We did

0:26:46.960 --> 0:26:48.320
<v Speaker 1>die for best New Member.

0:26:48.600 --> 0:26:50.199
<v Speaker 6>Yeah.

0:26:50.600 --> 0:26:54.520
<v Speaker 2>The conversation eventually turns to Roses cancer going into remission,

0:26:55.119 --> 0:26:59.080
<v Speaker 2>and that's when their memories diverge. According to Tricia, after

0:26:59.160 --> 0:27:02.399
<v Speaker 2>Rose was diagnosed as cancer free, she became a different

0:27:02.400 --> 0:27:06.119
<v Speaker 2>person and started to veer onto what Trisha calls a

0:27:06.160 --> 0:27:06.800
<v Speaker 2>bad pass.

0:27:07.320 --> 0:27:10.359
<v Speaker 6>You got angry, and not at certain people, but just

0:27:10.359 --> 0:27:13.280
<v Speaker 6>that like the situation at life.

0:27:13.400 --> 0:27:20.800
<v Speaker 1>You know, I don't necessarily remember like an anger reaction.

0:27:21.359 --> 0:27:24.879
<v Speaker 6>It's not like you were like pushing people down or

0:27:24.880 --> 0:27:27.119
<v Speaker 6>punching them in the face. To me, I think that

0:27:27.160 --> 0:27:32.760
<v Speaker 6>what I perceived was like partying, partying with attorneys, like

0:27:33.160 --> 0:27:37.399
<v Speaker 6>drinking a lot, like Yolo lifestyle, but also with like

0:27:37.560 --> 0:27:40.960
<v Speaker 6>two big middle fingers up. It's just like yo, no

0:27:41.000 --> 0:27:42.520
<v Speaker 6>one's going to tell me what to do or how

0:27:42.560 --> 0:27:43.280
<v Speaker 6>to live my life.

0:27:43.320 --> 0:27:48.080
<v Speaker 1>I just have a perception of myself that's like ooh,

0:27:48.119 --> 0:27:50.560
<v Speaker 1>I be cancer, Like all bets are off. Man, Like

0:27:50.600 --> 0:27:52.159
<v Speaker 1>now I get to do what I want like I

0:27:52.480 --> 0:27:56.960
<v Speaker 1>did my time, Like now I'm like, like, if I

0:27:57.000 --> 0:27:58.919
<v Speaker 1>want to be drunk on a Tuesday, I deserve to

0:27:58.920 --> 0:28:01.800
<v Speaker 1>be drunk on a Tuesday, because hey, I just be canter,

0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:04.800
<v Speaker 1>Like I think there was you were suffering.

0:28:05.040 --> 0:28:08.280
<v Speaker 2>The conversation was taking a turn from happy reminiscence to

0:28:08.359 --> 0:28:12.679
<v Speaker 2>battling perceptions of the past. Before things could escalate any further,

0:28:13.280 --> 0:28:18.280
<v Speaker 2>something needed to be said, I and so and so

0:28:18.400 --> 0:28:26.520
<v Speaker 2>it goes. I think that just Rose got the memo

0:28:27.040 --> 0:28:28.879
<v Speaker 2>and was back on point.

0:28:30.200 --> 0:28:32.480
<v Speaker 1>I think for me, Trish, and like, I don't know

0:28:32.520 --> 0:28:35.800
<v Speaker 1>if you can understand this part of it getting kicked out,

0:28:35.960 --> 0:28:37.840
<v Speaker 1>like I had no idea was coming.

0:28:39.880 --> 0:28:45.720
<v Speaker 6>Yeah, I'm sorry, And I sincerely wish that I could

0:28:45.720 --> 0:28:47.640
<v Speaker 6>give you like a list of like this is what

0:28:47.680 --> 0:28:49.080
<v Speaker 6>it was, this is what it was, this is what

0:28:49.120 --> 0:28:51.520
<v Speaker 6>it was. I honestly like, can't.

0:28:52.200 --> 0:28:56.040
<v Speaker 2>I can't became a common refrain. Rose would ask why

0:28:56.120 --> 0:28:59.160
<v Speaker 2>she'd been kicked out, and Tricia would say she wants

0:28:59.160 --> 0:29:02.680
<v Speaker 2>to tell Rose, but she just can't. I can't talk

0:29:02.680 --> 0:29:04.680
<v Speaker 2>about it, can't get into it.

0:29:04.920 --> 0:29:07.040
<v Speaker 6>Like I wish I could give you specific sentence of

0:29:07.160 --> 0:29:09.840
<v Speaker 6>like at this party, who said this? Does that make sense?

0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:11.880
<v Speaker 2>Like I don't know it wasn't making sense to me,

0:29:12.520 --> 0:29:15.000
<v Speaker 2>and I worried that it wasn't making sense to Rose either,

0:29:15.560 --> 0:29:18.719
<v Speaker 2>So I try to clarify literally, like I'm not sure

0:29:19.360 --> 0:29:22.880
<v Speaker 2>whether it's a matter of like you do know, but

0:29:22.960 --> 0:29:27.800
<v Speaker 2>you feel an obligation to kind of hold the secrets

0:29:27.800 --> 0:29:29.760
<v Speaker 2>of the story all these years later. Do you know

0:29:29.800 --> 0:29:30.200
<v Speaker 2>what I mean?

0:29:30.840 --> 0:29:36.240
<v Speaker 6>Or yeah, no I I and and maybe like I

0:29:36.240 --> 0:29:36.960
<v Speaker 6>would say.

0:29:36.720 --> 0:29:41.640
<v Speaker 2>No, like was there some kind of oath or something

0:29:41.720 --> 0:29:43.920
<v Speaker 2>like that, or was it because you don't.

0:29:43.640 --> 0:29:49.640
<v Speaker 6>Remember well, any CR meeting was like you're under oath.

0:29:49.760 --> 0:29:52.360
<v Speaker 6>Everything that happens in here stays in here. And so

0:29:52.520 --> 0:29:56.280
<v Speaker 6>there was there was a confidentiality, a big confidentiality piece

0:29:56.320 --> 0:29:57.640
<v Speaker 6>to those meetings.

0:29:58.240 --> 0:30:00.200
<v Speaker 2>I get the feeling that Tricia and the most of

0:30:00.240 --> 0:30:03.720
<v Speaker 2>her sisters still feel some obligation to protect the secrets

0:30:03.760 --> 0:30:07.200
<v Speaker 2>and reputation of an organization they joined in their twenties.

0:30:08.080 --> 0:30:10.360
<v Speaker 6>This is I think the hardest thing was to think

0:30:10.560 --> 0:30:13.719
<v Speaker 6>of the health of the chapter as a whole, and

0:30:13.840 --> 0:30:18.320
<v Speaker 6>how maintaining the health of the whole thing sometimes hurts

0:30:18.360 --> 0:30:19.640
<v Speaker 6>like one or two people.

0:30:22.160 --> 0:30:25.920
<v Speaker 2>By the end of the call, Rose had become uncharacteristically quiet.

0:30:26.480 --> 0:30:29.000
<v Speaker 2>So after we all say our goodbyes, I check back

0:30:29.040 --> 0:30:31.200
<v Speaker 2>in with her about how she felt the call went.

0:30:32.280 --> 0:30:34.800
<v Speaker 1>I think it sounds like she has some memories, but

0:30:34.920 --> 0:30:37.720
<v Speaker 1>she's not sure where she picked them up or who

0:30:37.760 --> 0:30:40.960
<v Speaker 1>she's be betraying if she talked about them. She's always

0:30:41.000 --> 0:30:43.200
<v Speaker 1>going to believe and everyone else in that room is

0:30:43.200 --> 0:30:45.400
<v Speaker 1>always going to believe that there was something about my

0:30:45.720 --> 0:30:51.120
<v Speaker 1>behavior that was unbecoming to the image of the sorority.

0:30:51.840 --> 0:30:54.600
<v Speaker 1>And I mean she almost called me a cancer. She

0:30:54.640 --> 0:30:57.080
<v Speaker 1>almost said like for the health of the organization, I

0:30:57.120 --> 0:31:01.240
<v Speaker 1>had to be removed. I think Truth is a bad person.

0:31:01.360 --> 0:31:03.720
<v Speaker 1>I really enjoyed reconnecting with her. I think she's a

0:31:03.760 --> 0:31:06.120
<v Speaker 1>cool girl, But ultimately what I got from her is

0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:08.040
<v Speaker 1>that she doesn't think kicking me out was a mistake.

0:31:12.120 --> 0:31:14.400
<v Speaker 2>For the next few weeks, I try to find someone,

0:31:14.600 --> 0:31:18.320
<v Speaker 2>anyone who might know why Rose was kicked out. I

0:31:18.400 --> 0:31:22.280
<v Speaker 2>phone people in the alumni office, in student relations, people

0:31:22.360 --> 0:31:25.600
<v Speaker 2>who weren't even in Rose's sorority, just on the long

0:31:25.640 --> 0:31:28.960
<v Speaker 2>shot they might have heard something. And then one day

0:31:29.320 --> 0:31:33.200
<v Speaker 2>I get a call back from Rick. Rick was Rose's

0:31:33.240 --> 0:31:37.280
<v Speaker 2>college boyfriend. They dated all through her illness, and when

0:31:37.320 --> 0:31:40.000
<v Speaker 2>we eventually spoke, there was something he told me that

0:31:40.120 --> 0:31:49.600
<v Speaker 2>seemed too strange. To be a coincidence. Hey, Hi, how

0:31:49.640 --> 0:31:49.880
<v Speaker 2>are you?

0:31:51.040 --> 0:31:55.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh shit, I have to like drive through the bank.

0:31:55.560 --> 0:31:56.760
<v Speaker 3>Drive through right now, real quick.

0:31:57.480 --> 0:32:00.920
<v Speaker 2>Always a lot going on. After Rose is done with

0:32:00.960 --> 0:32:05.840
<v Speaker 2>her personal banking, I tell her the news. I phoned

0:32:05.920 --> 0:32:06.920
<v Speaker 2>up Rick.

0:32:07.840 --> 0:32:08.200
<v Speaker 1>Okay.

0:32:08.880 --> 0:32:10.600
<v Speaker 2>And one of the things though, that he shared with

0:32:10.680 --> 0:32:12.840
<v Speaker 2>me and I wonder, I mean, I feel like you

0:32:12.960 --> 0:32:17.160
<v Speaker 2>must know this though we've not ever talked about it,

0:32:17.200 --> 0:32:20.120
<v Speaker 2>is the fact that he was also kicked out of

0:32:20.240 --> 0:32:22.920
<v Speaker 2>his fraternity.

0:32:23.280 --> 0:32:28.760
<v Speaker 4>Holy shit, wait what Yeah?

0:32:28.840 --> 0:32:31.800
<v Speaker 2>Like at the time, he was also kicked out of his.

0:32:31.640 --> 0:32:35.760
<v Speaker 1>Fraternity of k kicked out Rick natering Ouse.

0:32:36.400 --> 0:32:39.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Rick was kicked out of his fraternity around the

0:32:39.920 --> 0:32:42.280
<v Speaker 2>same time as Rose was kicked out of Alpha Kai.

0:32:42.840 --> 0:32:45.480
<v Speaker 2>Just like Rose, Rick had been the only person kicked

0:32:45.480 --> 0:32:48.360
<v Speaker 2>out in years, and he never got an answer as

0:32:48.400 --> 0:32:52.000
<v Speaker 2>to why. But unlike Rose, Rick has a theory about it,

0:32:52.400 --> 0:32:55.080
<v Speaker 2>one that explains why both of them got kicked out.

0:32:56.400 --> 0:32:58.880
<v Speaker 2>I suggest to Rose that maybe it'd be a good

0:32:58.880 --> 0:33:00.600
<v Speaker 2>idea for her and Rick to talk.

0:33:01.080 --> 0:33:02.320
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, we should make that happen.

0:33:05.920 --> 0:33:07.760
<v Speaker 5>Hey, Jonathan, how are you good?

0:33:08.400 --> 0:33:11.560
<v Speaker 2>I've got Rose here on the other line. Can you

0:33:11.560 --> 0:33:12.320
<v Speaker 2>guys hear each other?

0:33:13.800 --> 0:33:16.600
<v Speaker 5>Hi, I can hear Rick, Hey, how are you?

0:33:17.240 --> 0:33:20.200
<v Speaker 2>Rick's now a contractor. When I reach him, he's sitting

0:33:20.240 --> 0:33:24.200
<v Speaker 2>in his idling truck at a construction site. Not long

0:33:24.240 --> 0:33:27.560
<v Speaker 2>after their breakup, Rose graduated and moved out of Florida.

0:33:28.320 --> 0:33:30.800
<v Speaker 2>The two haven't spoken in years, and this is the

0:33:30.800 --> 0:33:34.080
<v Speaker 2>first time they've talked about getting kicked out. Right away,

0:33:34.360 --> 0:33:35.600
<v Speaker 2>they start trading stories.

0:33:36.000 --> 0:33:40.200
<v Speaker 8>Mine was just a phone call, and it was a

0:33:40.240 --> 0:33:43.120
<v Speaker 8>phone call from one of our brothers that was founding

0:33:43.160 --> 0:33:45.560
<v Speaker 8>father Chaz, and just basically said, hey, you're.

0:33:47.240 --> 0:33:47.920
<v Speaker 5>You're done here.

0:33:48.680 --> 0:33:52.000
<v Speaker 1>That is so insane. You were like the responsible one.

0:33:52.040 --> 0:33:54.880
<v Speaker 1>That's so insane. Oh my god, I don't know.

0:33:55.480 --> 0:33:57.680
<v Speaker 2>Before they get to Rick's theory, the two of them

0:33:57.680 --> 0:34:01.120
<v Speaker 2>talk about old times. Eventually why their way back to

0:34:01.200 --> 0:34:04.200
<v Speaker 2>the days when they were a couple. When Rose was

0:34:04.200 --> 0:34:07.680
<v Speaker 2>diagnosed with cancer, Rick actually moved her into his apartment.

0:34:08.080 --> 0:34:11.520
<v Speaker 2>He drove her to doctor's appointments, cooked her meals. After

0:34:11.560 --> 0:34:14.720
<v Speaker 2>the pink ribbons had been sold and the fundraising had ended,

0:34:15.120 --> 0:34:17.360
<v Speaker 2>Rick was the one waiting at home to look after

0:34:17.400 --> 0:34:21.080
<v Speaker 2>her at her most sick and vulnerable. Do you remember

0:34:21.200 --> 0:34:23.640
<v Speaker 2>being were you scared at any point?

0:34:23.760 --> 0:34:23.920
<v Speaker 6>Rick?

0:34:24.000 --> 0:34:26.359
<v Speaker 2>Like? Do you fear that? Like Rose was gonna die

0:34:26.600 --> 0:34:27.040
<v Speaker 2>of course.

0:34:27.120 --> 0:34:29.719
<v Speaker 8>I mean, you hear that the word cancer, and that's

0:34:29.760 --> 0:34:32.080
<v Speaker 8>obviously one of the things that you're going to think about.

0:34:32.239 --> 0:34:33.480
<v Speaker 5>You know, we had been dating.

0:34:33.239 --> 0:34:36.240
<v Speaker 8>For a little bit, but it wasn't a great length

0:34:36.239 --> 0:34:39.279
<v Speaker 8>of time before this even happened. So you know, you

0:34:39.400 --> 0:34:41.560
<v Speaker 8>take those feelings that you have for somebody and I mean,

0:34:41.560 --> 0:34:44.080
<v Speaker 8>you're still developing a relationship and then all of a

0:34:44.080 --> 0:34:46.319
<v Speaker 8>sudden it go through and think, hey, you know you

0:34:46.320 --> 0:34:46.880
<v Speaker 8>have cancer.

0:34:47.400 --> 0:34:49.560
<v Speaker 5>So yeah, I mean the entire process is terrifying.

0:34:52.480 --> 0:34:53.440
<v Speaker 3>It's terrifying.

0:34:53.480 --> 0:34:56.359
<v Speaker 1>And I was like bald and my skin was turning gray,

0:34:56.560 --> 0:34:59.440
<v Speaker 1>and like there he was like going to functions with

0:34:59.480 --> 0:35:00.879
<v Speaker 1>me and being my boyfriend.

0:35:01.080 --> 0:35:03.880
<v Speaker 3>And I remember one time, I'm in the middle of chemo.

0:35:04.080 --> 0:35:07.400
<v Speaker 1>I am bald, I'm like not doing well, and we

0:35:07.480 --> 0:35:09.839
<v Speaker 1>go down to Daytona to watch the NASCAR event because

0:35:09.840 --> 0:35:10.880
<v Speaker 1>it's right around my birthday.

0:35:10.880 --> 0:35:11.879
<v Speaker 3>It's the beginning of July.

0:35:12.719 --> 0:35:15.719
<v Speaker 1>And then this freak thunderstorm comes out of nowhere and

0:35:15.760 --> 0:35:17.600
<v Speaker 1>the temperature dropped like.

0:35:17.880 --> 0:35:20.120
<v Speaker 3>A crazy amount. It downpours.

0:35:20.160 --> 0:35:24.000
<v Speaker 1>We get completely soaked, and now there's like chemo rose

0:35:24.200 --> 0:35:26.799
<v Speaker 1>is freezing. I have no immune system. I'm just like

0:35:26.880 --> 0:35:29.520
<v Speaker 1>teeth chattering, and so Rick took me over to the

0:35:29.600 --> 0:35:32.560
<v Speaker 1>vendor area and he bought me this like head to

0:35:32.560 --> 0:35:35.600
<v Speaker 1>toe windbreaker outfit of Darryl Earnhardt juice.

0:35:38.120 --> 0:35:38.920
<v Speaker 3>Do you remember that?

0:35:41.400 --> 0:35:44.400
<v Speaker 5>I do? You look like you pretty much belong with

0:35:44.400 --> 0:35:44.919
<v Speaker 5>that van base.

0:35:45.200 --> 0:35:47.040
<v Speaker 1>I looked like a twelve year old boy who was

0:35:47.080 --> 0:35:50.120
<v Speaker 1>sitting in the bleachers with like his older brother's cool friends.

0:35:55.960 --> 0:35:58.399
<v Speaker 2>In spite of all they'd been through. Pretty quickly, after

0:35:58.440 --> 0:36:01.359
<v Speaker 2>her cancer went into remission, Rose broke up with Rick,

0:36:01.960 --> 0:36:04.520
<v Speaker 2>and although Rick was sad, he understood it.

0:36:05.920 --> 0:36:11.239
<v Speaker 8>Rose needed to have some time to be able to

0:36:12.120 --> 0:36:15.120
<v Speaker 8>go and experience life.

0:36:15.440 --> 0:36:19.120
<v Speaker 5>And so when that took place, her and I split,

0:36:19.160 --> 0:36:19.319
<v Speaker 5>and a.

0:36:19.280 --> 0:36:20.680
<v Speaker 8>Lot of people are like, oh, well, you know you

0:36:20.719 --> 0:36:23.840
<v Speaker 8>split because oh, she's in remission and it needs to

0:36:23.880 --> 0:36:24.960
<v Speaker 8>go and kind of live her life.

0:36:25.000 --> 0:36:27.400
<v Speaker 5>Well that's kind of a shit way of doing it,

0:36:27.400 --> 0:36:30.239
<v Speaker 5>because I mean, hell, didn't you take care of her? Yeah?

0:36:30.280 --> 0:36:31.560
<v Speaker 5>But I mean she's got it, She's got to figure

0:36:31.560 --> 0:36:32.080
<v Speaker 5>herself out.

0:36:32.880 --> 0:36:37.800
<v Speaker 8>We both got it, but we got it, and nobody

0:36:37.800 --> 0:36:39.560
<v Speaker 8>else really understood.

0:36:49.680 --> 0:36:53.120
<v Speaker 2>Which brings us to Rick's theory. Rick says that after

0:36:53.160 --> 0:36:56.720
<v Speaker 2>he and Rose broke up, people took sides. Rick's friends

0:36:56.719 --> 0:36:59.520
<v Speaker 2>were mad at Rose, and Rose's friends were mad at Rick,

0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:03.440
<v Speaker 2>and each side started rumors about the other, and in

0:37:03.520 --> 0:37:06.800
<v Speaker 2>that fog of rumors, both of their good names were ruined.

0:37:07.480 --> 0:37:09.640
<v Speaker 2>It was like the breakup version of the Gift of

0:37:09.640 --> 0:37:13.600
<v Speaker 2>the Magi. And as they talk, something in Rick's theory

0:37:13.800 --> 0:37:15.080
<v Speaker 2>seems to click for Rose.

0:37:15.640 --> 0:37:19.840
<v Speaker 1>Absolutely, that theory has never crossed my mind, Like I

0:37:19.880 --> 0:37:23.360
<v Speaker 1>am sure someone who felt close to Rick and thought

0:37:23.360 --> 0:37:26.160
<v Speaker 1>that maybe I had done him wrong or something could

0:37:26.200 --> 0:37:28.760
<v Speaker 1>have gotten blown out of proportion by people who felt

0:37:28.800 --> 0:37:31.920
<v Speaker 1>like defensive or protective on either side of that equation.

0:37:32.719 --> 0:37:37.200
<v Speaker 8>Absolutely, I mean I remember, you know, people coming up

0:37:37.239 --> 0:37:39.799
<v Speaker 8>to me that were, I mean not even friends of mine,

0:37:40.400 --> 0:37:43.360
<v Speaker 8>going oh hey, I heard you and Rose split up,

0:37:43.360 --> 0:37:45.320
<v Speaker 8>and I heard she was cheating on you for two years.

0:37:45.640 --> 0:37:47.480
<v Speaker 8>Her was cheating on you for you know, the two

0:37:47.480 --> 0:37:50.600
<v Speaker 8>months before y'all split with another guy from PI Cap

0:37:52.080 --> 0:37:57.919
<v Speaker 8>You remember Trip. Oh yeah, he was the one kick

0:37:57.960 --> 0:37:59.200
<v Speaker 8>comes by my apartment one time.

0:37:59.239 --> 0:38:01.040
<v Speaker 5>He's like, oh man, I walked into her apartment. She

0:38:01.160 --> 0:38:05.440
<v Speaker 5>was having sex with some dude on the stairs, on.

0:38:05.480 --> 0:38:10.239
<v Speaker 2>The stairs, on the stairs. These rumors confirmed what a

0:38:10.280 --> 0:38:12.959
<v Speaker 2>lot of Rose's sorority sisters were beginning to think about

0:38:13.000 --> 0:38:15.880
<v Speaker 2>her after her cancer went into remission, that she was

0:38:15.920 --> 0:38:19.040
<v Speaker 2>too wild, too much of a partier. But how do

0:38:19.080 --> 0:38:22.640
<v Speaker 2>you kick out a poor, innocent cancer survivor from your sorority.

0:38:23.280 --> 0:38:26.000
<v Speaker 2>It's a lot easier if she's not so poor and innocent,

0:38:26.520 --> 0:38:29.359
<v Speaker 2>if she betrayed the loving boyfriend who saw her through

0:38:29.360 --> 0:38:32.840
<v Speaker 2>her illness. These rumors must have been just what the

0:38:32.840 --> 0:38:36.040
<v Speaker 2>sorority had been waiting for. It gave them the moral

0:38:36.120 --> 0:38:39.920
<v Speaker 2>high ground to get rid of her. So while Rose's

0:38:39.960 --> 0:38:43.560
<v Speaker 2>sorority sisters thought her cancer recovery had changed her, Rick

0:38:43.600 --> 0:38:46.840
<v Speaker 2>saw the experience as having changed her back to the

0:38:46.880 --> 0:38:49.279
<v Speaker 2>person she'd been before joining Alpha Kai.

0:38:49.719 --> 0:38:52.680
<v Speaker 8>When she started getting into Alpha Kai, I'm like, what,

0:38:53.480 --> 0:38:57.160
<v Speaker 8>thank who? Really you're gonna You're gonna go that route

0:38:57.440 --> 0:38:59.080
<v Speaker 8>because that's that's not her.

0:39:08.239 --> 0:39:08.520
<v Speaker 4>Rose.

0:39:08.719 --> 0:39:09.759
<v Speaker 2>Are you a Beatles fan?

0:39:11.080 --> 0:39:11.360
<v Speaker 3>Yes?

0:39:13.000 --> 0:39:15.560
<v Speaker 2>Rose had never heard the story of Pete Best, So

0:39:15.680 --> 0:39:18.000
<v Speaker 2>I explain how he was kicked out of the Beatles.

0:39:18.480 --> 0:39:20.560
<v Speaker 2>I tell her about all the different theories I'd heard

0:39:20.640 --> 0:39:23.560
<v Speaker 2>for why he was kicked out, the hair, the style.

0:39:24.120 --> 0:39:26.520
<v Speaker 2>But how lately, looking at old photos of the band

0:39:26.760 --> 0:39:30.000
<v Speaker 2>with Pete Best hunched in the background, it all seems

0:39:30.040 --> 0:39:34.040
<v Speaker 2>a lot simpler when you look at the old photographs

0:39:34.080 --> 0:39:36.880
<v Speaker 2>of those guys of the Beatles with Pete Best altogether,

0:39:38.480 --> 0:39:41.360
<v Speaker 2>like he just doesn't look like a Beatle, you know,

0:39:43.239 --> 0:39:46.160
<v Speaker 2>And in the final analysis, it's sort of like, why

0:39:46.239 --> 0:39:48.080
<v Speaker 2>was he kicked out of the Beatles just because he

0:39:48.239 --> 0:39:49.800
<v Speaker 2>just kind of didn't seem like a Beatle?

0:39:52.680 --> 0:39:55.200
<v Speaker 1>I get the analogy you're driving at here, and I

0:39:55.239 --> 0:39:58.279
<v Speaker 1>think you're right, Like, ultimately, I just wasn't an alpha kai.

0:39:58.760 --> 0:40:02.799
<v Speaker 1>I just wasn't like them. And I can't necessarily put

0:40:02.840 --> 0:40:05.880
<v Speaker 1>into words or a definition what made them similar and

0:40:05.960 --> 0:40:08.600
<v Speaker 1>made me different, But I just know that I was different.

0:40:10.320 --> 0:40:15.360
<v Speaker 2>Roads Have you ever considered, like, had you not gotten cancer,

0:40:15.520 --> 0:40:17.840
<v Speaker 2>that maybe they would have forced you out earlier?

0:40:19.120 --> 0:40:19.400
<v Speaker 1>God?

0:40:19.520 --> 0:40:20.040
<v Speaker 6>Probably.

0:40:27.000 --> 0:40:28.640
<v Speaker 1>I think I was doing a really good job of

0:40:28.640 --> 0:40:31.359
<v Speaker 1>trying to assimilate early on, and I was like, oh,

0:40:31.440 --> 0:40:34.560
<v Speaker 1>my best behavior, but I think that like the real

0:40:34.680 --> 0:40:37.719
<v Speaker 1>me just kept like cracking out, and then once once

0:40:38.080 --> 0:40:40.680
<v Speaker 1>after going through the whole cancer thing, then it's like, oh,

0:40:40.840 --> 0:40:41.640
<v Speaker 1>let's not put.

0:40:41.480 --> 0:40:42.360
<v Speaker 3>On errs anymore.

0:40:42.480 --> 0:40:44.320
<v Speaker 1>Like I am who I am, and I was trying

0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:47.200
<v Speaker 1>really hard to like cram myself into that mold and

0:40:47.239 --> 0:40:51.120
<v Speaker 1>it just wasn't fitting, like it just wasn't working.

0:40:52.680 --> 0:40:55.839
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, Like I think, like, in having spoken to quite

0:40:55.880 --> 0:41:00.280
<v Speaker 2>a few of your old sorority sisters, I mean none

0:41:00.320 --> 0:41:03.400
<v Speaker 2>of them sound like you. No, and I mean that

0:41:03.760 --> 0:41:05.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean that in a nice way.

0:41:05.200 --> 0:41:06.440
<v Speaker 3>No, I'm totally down with that.

0:41:06.800 --> 0:41:09.080
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm a fucking maniac and that's who I am,

0:41:09.120 --> 0:41:11.719
<v Speaker 1>and I've come to fully embrace that right now, Like

0:41:12.880 --> 0:41:14.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm really cool with who I am.

0:41:15.200 --> 0:41:19.040
<v Speaker 2>Well you know, I'm uh, I'm cool with who you are. Also,

0:41:19.800 --> 0:41:27.280
<v Speaker 2>thank you. Years after getting kicked out of the Beatles,

0:41:27.640 --> 0:41:30.080
<v Speaker 2>Pete Best said he was still hopeful that maybe one

0:41:30.160 --> 0:41:33.279
<v Speaker 2>day he'd find out why. Maybe I'll run into Paul,

0:41:33.320 --> 0:41:37.120
<v Speaker 2>he said, and we can talk about it. If decades

0:41:37.120 --> 0:41:40.000
<v Speaker 2>from now, Rose should run into one of her sorority sisters,

0:41:40.360 --> 0:41:42.279
<v Speaker 2>I hope you won't need to talk about anything other

0:41:42.320 --> 0:41:45.719
<v Speaker 2>than the weather or what she's making for supper, And

0:41:45.760 --> 0:41:48.720
<v Speaker 2>then she could say or goodbyes and get back to chopping,

0:41:49.080 --> 0:41:53.160
<v Speaker 2>banking and basically being the maniac that she is.

0:42:26.239 --> 0:42:35.759
<v Speaker 1>Now that the fernentures returning to its goodwill home, now

0:42:35.840 --> 0:42:40.600
<v Speaker 1>that the last month's rent is scheming with the damage

0:42:40.640 --> 0:42:47.120
<v Speaker 1>to poss take this moment to deserve. If we met

0:42:47.200 --> 0:42:49.839
<v Speaker 1>him we tried.

0:42:50.719 --> 0:42:52.960
<v Speaker 2>But felt around for far too.

0:42:55.280 --> 0:42:58.160
<v Speaker 1>From Things that Accidentally.

0:42:57.680 --> 0:43:05.239
<v Speaker 2>Tal Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein

0:43:05.440 --> 0:43:08.920
<v Speaker 2>along with Khalila Holt. The senior producer is Caitlin Roberts.

0:43:09.400 --> 0:43:12.960
<v Speaker 2>Editing by Jorge just, Alex Bloomberg and Wendy Door. Special

0:43:13.000 --> 0:43:17.719
<v Speaker 2>thanks to Emily Condon, Stevie Lane, and Jackie Cohen. The

0:43:17.760 --> 0:43:21.160
<v Speaker 2>show was mixed by Kate Bolinsky, music by Christine Fellows

0:43:21.200 --> 0:43:24.320
<v Speaker 2>and John K. Sampson. Additional music credits for this episode

0:43:24.360 --> 0:43:28.360
<v Speaker 2>can be found on our website, gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight.

0:43:28.920 --> 0:43:31.120
<v Speaker 2>Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of

0:43:31.200 --> 0:43:34.720
<v Speaker 2>Epitaph Records, and our ad music is by Hailey Shaw.

0:43:35.239 --> 0:43:38.600
<v Speaker 2>Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or email us at

0:43:38.640 --> 0:43:42.080
<v Speaker 2>Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. We'll have a new episode

0:43:42.480 --> 0:44:00.279
<v Speaker 2>next week by Palagram. Why a Blazer we repainted? Wh