Speaker 1: Hey, how are you?
Speaker 2: I noticed that we're not Facebook friends or not? No,
Speaker 2: I think.
Speaker 3: Didn't you try to Facebook friend me?
Speaker 4: I don't think I responded.
Speaker 2: Do you know how embarrassing that is? You don't even
Speaker 2: friend me?
Speaker 1: Then we're better than Facebook friends, we're real life friends.
Speaker 2: No, that's worse than Facebook friends because no one knows
Speaker 2: we're friends. Let's go to the internet right now. Let's
Speaker 2: friend each other at the exact same.
Speaker 1: Time, get from each other. Because I have to go
Speaker 1: to work right now.
Speaker 2: Can't you take the computer with you.
Speaker 1: I'm stepping out the door now and I have to
Speaker 1: get on my.
Speaker 2: Bicycle bounce on the handlebars. And then you could we
Speaker 2: could we could facebook chat. Don't you think that's a
Speaker 2: good idea? If, like, if we both friend each other
Speaker 2: at the same time? No, why not?
Speaker 5: One?
Speaker 2: Two, three? And then we pressed the button? Ready hurtful
Speaker 2: from Dimlin. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's
Speaker 2: episode rose In nineteen sixty two, the Beatles had their
Speaker 2: first number one hit, Love Me Do. A lesser known
Speaker 2: fact is that just months earlier, the band kicked out
Speaker 2: their original drummer Pete Best. The Beatles had their manager
Speaker 2: do the job. The lads just don't want you in
Speaker 2: the band anymore, he said.
Speaker 4: No.
Speaker 2: Further explanation was given, but over the years different theories emerged.
Speaker 2: Pete Best didn't have the right hair, Pete Best wasn't
Speaker 2: funny or artsy enough, he didn't dress right. For a
Speaker 2: long time afterwards, Pete Best wondered why his old friends
Speaker 2: had kicked him out. But he got married, started a family.
Speaker 2: Oh bla de oh bla dah, life went on. That's
Speaker 2: what happens. People get kicked out of bands, parties, jobs,
Speaker 2: and eventually they stop searching for the reason why. Most
Speaker 2: people do anyway, So.
Speaker 1: I moved into my college dorm when I was seventeen.
Speaker 1: I was an incoming freshman in the fall of two
Speaker 1: thousand and one.
Speaker 2: This is Rose and the school she was entering was
Speaker 2: the University of North Florida.
Speaker 1: And it's like a beachy community. I was like a
Speaker 1: cool surfer chick. I dreve like an old Volvo that
Speaker 1: was covered in like band stickers.
Speaker 2: Rose was a rebel, and if all the teen movies
Speaker 2: I'd watched during the mid eighties taught me anything about
Speaker 2: campus life, it was that rebels don't mix with popular
Speaker 2: kids and at the University of North Florida, nobody was
Speaker 2: more popular than the sorority girls.
Speaker 1: Will you like walk through school and they're set up
Speaker 1: there and they're like along the sidewalks and.
Speaker 3: They're like, are you interested in enjoying a sorority?
Speaker 1: And I would just like blow by on my skateboard
Speaker 1: and be like no.
Speaker 3: I didn't think that I'd ever be affiliated with it.
Speaker 2: With with with sorority life.
Speaker 1: Yeah, with Greek life, with the sororities and the fraternities
Speaker 1: and like the cool kids and their pop callers, like,
Speaker 1: I didn't think that was for me. So the summer
Speaker 1: after my freshman year, I meet this dude and I
Speaker 1: start dating him, and he's in a fraternity and I'm
Speaker 1: making friends with all these people in the Greek community
Speaker 1: and I'm like, Oh, they're normal, they're not pretentious, they're
Speaker 1: not weird. I started to dress like them, I started
Speaker 1: to act like them, and I wanted to be accepted.
Speaker 3: And the fall of.
Speaker 1: My junior year, I rushed and I got a bid
Speaker 1: from Alpha Kai and I joined.
Speaker 2: Sorry, the name of the sorority.
Speaker 3: Was, It's called Alpha Kai Omega.
Speaker 1: Alpha Kai Omega, and we were the Theta Sigma chapter
Speaker 1: Stata Sigma.
Speaker 2: Chapter theta with the thh.
Speaker 1: So it was the Theta Sigma chapter of Alpha ky Omega,
Speaker 1: and it was at unf sororities.
Speaker 2: It was a new and exciting world with such a
Speaker 2: rich history. It turns out that Condolei's a Rice Enron Whistleblow,
Speaker 2: or Sharon Watkins and Don Wells, who played Marianne on
Speaker 2: Gilligan's Island, were all members of Alpha Chi and had
Speaker 2: taken secret oaths to remain sisters for life. I listened
Speaker 2: avidly as Rose explains what it means to be a
Speaker 2: part of Alpha chi Omega Theta Sigma chapter.
Speaker 1: We are classy ladies, We are sophisticated, we wear pearls,
Speaker 1: we know our manners.
Speaker 2: You know, like that, did they use the word classy.
Speaker 3: You're not being classy?
Speaker 4: Yeah?
Speaker 3: Absolutely.
Speaker 1: And they had like all these weird acronyms, like if
Speaker 1: someone came up to you and whispered in your your pearl,
Speaker 1: it was like the acronym for pearl, pearl, please engage
Speaker 1: in acts resembling a lady.
Speaker 2: So if someone says pearl in your that would mean
Speaker 2: you would.
Speaker 1: Begin to It would mean like, let's say I'm doing
Speaker 1: a keg stand at a party and another sister is there.
Speaker 1: Instead of being like, young lady, get down, write this instant,
Speaker 1: because that's causing a scene. Now you're causing attention. Instead,
Speaker 1: she's supposed to tap me on the shoulder and whisper
Speaker 1: in my ear pearl, and then I'm supposed to be like, oh,
Speaker 1: you're right, thank you for reminding me.
Speaker 2: Rose took on new hobbies, scrap booking with her sorority sisters,
Speaker 2: building floats for the homecoming parade, and dressing head to
Speaker 2: toe in scarlet red and olive green, the Alpha Kyomega colors.
Speaker 2: And while she'd never seen herself being cut out for
Speaker 2: all of this sorority stuff, the crazy thing was it
Speaker 2: actually made her really happy.
Speaker 1: I was a gong ho, like I'm a participator. I
Speaker 1: got really into it and just walking around school now
Speaker 1: all of a sudden, like you know everybody, and everybody
Speaker 1: knows you, and now you're in on the in side
Speaker 1: jokes like I felt like I belonged, Like I went
Speaker 1: from being like a disgruntled outsider to being like the
Speaker 1: bubbly participant.
Speaker 2: Rose and her sorority sisters did everything together, beach trips,
Speaker 2: watching The Bachelor, one weekend, they all ran a campus
Speaker 2: charity race together, but afterwards something felt a miss and.
Speaker 1: I remember thinking like, man, I feel really tired after
Speaker 1: that five K and I'm having a lot of trouble
Speaker 1: sleeping and I keep sweating through my sheets at night.
Speaker 2: Rose also noticed that her neck was swollen. She was
Speaker 2: feeling achy and fatigued. After a few weeks, she went
Speaker 2: to see a doctor.
Speaker 1: And I said, could you take a look at my neck, Like,
Speaker 1: I don't think something's right. And the nurse practitioner who
Speaker 1: was treating me that day just like looked at me
Speaker 1: in horror and.
Speaker 3: Was like, you have to go to radiation right now.
Speaker 1: And I was like, I have to make an appointment,
Speaker 1: and she was like, no, I'm calling the second floor
Speaker 1: and you're going to go get a CT scan right now.
Speaker 3: So it was crazy.
Speaker 1: They called it nodular sclerosing Hodgkins lymphoma. I had huge,
Speaker 1: pronounced lymph notes all over my body. You could take
Speaker 1: one look at me and it looked like my neck
Speaker 1: and chest were just full of golf balls, like something
Speaker 1: was wrong. By the time we started testing and staging,
Speaker 1: I mean I was a stage three. This is like
Speaker 1: big cake cancer. This is like shave your head, Rose,
Speaker 1: like you've got real cancer. So I think around May
Speaker 1: I started chemo.
Speaker 2: Rose dropped out of her classes and quit her extracurriculars.
Speaker 2: Her days filled up with doctor's appointments and chemotherapy. The
Speaker 2: one bright note throughout was the support she got from
Speaker 2: her sorority sisters. They took her to concerts in Jacksonville
Speaker 2: Jaguar football games, they sold hot pink ribbons in the
Speaker 2: quad and raised thousands of dollars for Rose's treatment. Alpha
Speaker 2: Kai took care of Rose, and Rose was dedicated to
Speaker 2: Alpha Kai. She was on the executive board in charge
Speaker 2: of recruiting new members, and even through her cancer, she
Speaker 2: kept up with her work.
Speaker 1: And new girls are coming through and they have to
Speaker 1: decide which sorority they want to join. And now Alpha
Speaker 1: Kai has like one hell of a tale to tell.
Speaker 1: Now we're not just a regular sorority. We're the sorority
Speaker 1: with the cancer girl and we're saving her life.
Speaker 2: And that was something that they led with, that was
Speaker 2: actually something that was made explicit.
Speaker 1: Oh, I got up there with my bald head and
Speaker 1: gave a speech and cried every time about how my
Speaker 1: sisters were saving my life.
Speaker 2: Rose was lucky. By the spring of her senior year,
Speaker 2: her cancer went into remission for the first time in
Speaker 2: more than a year. She felt like a normal college kid.
Speaker 1: I just had a lot of fun that semester. My
Speaker 1: hair's starting to grow back, I'm starting to get my
Speaker 1: energy back. I'm starting to feel like a normal person,
Speaker 1: and like, now I'm not just going to a party
Speaker 1: to like, you know, make sure I'm getting out of
Speaker 1: the house, like now I want a party, Like now
Speaker 1: I want to have fun.
Speaker 3: So I did. I felt like I deserved it.
Speaker 2: Then one night, after being cancer free for five months,
Speaker 2: Rose went to Alpha Kai's weekly meeting, which I met
Speaker 2: in an old auditorium on campus.
Speaker 1: And I come to the meeting and they're like, hey, Rose,
Speaker 1: can you stay after We need to talk to you.
Speaker 1: So they clear everybody out and now it's just like
Speaker 1: five or six women and me, and they're like, all right, Rose,
Speaker 1: like this is gonna be tough. We're gonna have to
Speaker 1: ask you to resign. And I was like, excuse me, Yeah,
Speaker 1: we're gonna have to ask you to resign. And I
Speaker 1: thought they meant from my position, my officer position. I'm like,
Speaker 1: you're asking me to step down? As VP recruitment, like
Speaker 1: the new girls love me, I'm great with the new girls.
Speaker 1: Why I've got this marketing on lock And they're like, oh, no, no, no,
Speaker 1: we want you to resign from the organization. We want
Speaker 1: you to resign from Alpha Kai.
Speaker 2: And I lost it.
Speaker 1: It's like you know that feeling when someone's breaking up
Speaker 1: with you, and like you get that cold feeling in
Speaker 1: your chest and you know that someone's about to look
Speaker 1: at you and say like this isn't Yeah. It was
Speaker 1: like that times one hundred, Like now a hundred of
Speaker 1: my friends were all breaking up with me in a
Speaker 1: very methodical way, and I didn't see it coming, and
Speaker 1: I just kept.
Speaker 3: Saying, why, what do you mean you want me out?
Speaker 1: And this is when they just all of a sudden,
Speaker 1: it was like these women I'd known for years, they
Speaker 1: were strangers and there was no compassion, there was no kindness.
Speaker 3: It was you know what you did, Rose, you know
Speaker 3: what you did?
Speaker 1: And I was like, no, no, you have to tell
Speaker 1: me what did I do? Did something bad happen?
Speaker 2: Rose?
Speaker 3: We're not getting into it. You know what you did?
Speaker 3: And I'm just like, no, no, I don't know what
Speaker 3: I did.
Speaker 1: And at this point I am so distraught. I think
Speaker 1: I'm like hyperventilating and crying. I think I'm ugly crying.
Speaker 1: I think, like snaw, it's just bubbling out of my
Speaker 1: nose and I don't have the wherewithal to demand answers.
Speaker 3: And I'm like, so that's it, We're done here.
Speaker 1: You want me out and they're like, yeah, as of tonight,
Speaker 1: you are no longer affiliated with Alpha ky Omega.
Speaker 2: She was getting straight a's, she was on the student council,
Speaker 2: She never done anything illegal, but Rose was out and
Speaker 2: no one would tell.
Speaker 3: Her why No one has ever told me?
Speaker 2: And did you ever pursue it further?
Speaker 3: God, yes, for years?
Speaker 1: Like, hey guys, it's been five years since we graduated college.
Speaker 1: I know this is kind of weird, but I still
Speaker 1: think about it. Does anyone want to tell me? I've
Speaker 1: done the thing on Facebook where I've made the big
Speaker 1: Facebook post where I'm like, all right, does everyone remember
Speaker 1: when Rose got kicked out Alpha Kai, Like if you
Speaker 1: or anyone you know has any information, like I'm still
Speaker 1: dying to know, And then like dozens of my friends
Speaker 1: are like, oh, I'm following this post.
Speaker 2: What was it?
Speaker 3: What was it?
Speaker 1: And still to this day, no answers like you're racking
Speaker 1: your brain. I'm like, did I get blackout drunk and
Speaker 1: sleep with someone's boyfriend?
Speaker 2: Did you ever see any other of the sisters get
Speaker 2: kicked out?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 4: No?
Speaker 1: And that's the thing, is like, Okay, let's not mince
Speaker 1: words here, like was Rosea party girl?
Speaker 2: Yes?
Speaker 3: Were there girls who were way worse than me?
Speaker 2: Absolutely?
Speaker 3: And did they get kicked out? Never?
Speaker 2: Does Rose refer to herself in the third person? Yes,
Speaker 2: does you present the puzzling riddle? Absolutely? And would Jonathan
Speaker 2: quit before solving it? Never. Rose's college memories have all
Speaker 2: been tainted by that one day twelve years ago, but
Speaker 2: her ex sorority sisters are now adult women in their thirties.
Speaker 2: They had to be past the college drama. So after
Speaker 2: Rose and I part, I begin reaching out to them
Speaker 2: for their help. Hey, Amanda, this is Jonathan Goldstein. Trish,
Speaker 2: I've been trying to get in touch Anita. I was
Speaker 2: trying to reach you.
Speaker 5: Zoe.
Speaker 2: This is Jonathan goldste we'll speak soon, Claire. I phone
Speaker 2: them in their cars.
Speaker 1: Hi, Hey, I've got my daughter walking into BALLEI class short.
Speaker 2: No, of course, I phone them in their homes. Do
Speaker 2: you have a minute to.
Speaker 1: Speak, I do, I have a toddler to say, you.
Speaker 2: Know, oh yeah, no, that's fine, Hi on.
Speaker 1: Sugar, because she just pole the bag of jelly being
Speaker 1: But yes, no, I cannot pick you up. I'm not
Speaker 1: picking you up.
Speaker 6: No, I'm sorry.
Speaker 2: But not one of Rose's ex sorority sisters can tell
Speaker 2: me why she'd been kicked out. Some say they don't remember,
Speaker 2: it was so long ago. Others say they never knew why.
Speaker 2: There were nearly one hundred women in Alpha Kai, but
Speaker 2: only a handful had been in the room when Rose
Speaker 2: was kicked out. One of these women was named Amber.
Speaker 2: When I phone her, she's busy but tells me to
Speaker 2: call back, So a few days later I do, Hey, Amber,
Speaker 2: this is Jonathan Goldstein. I think we spoke briefly some
Speaker 2: time ago. Hello. I call back, and Amber apologizes for
Speaker 2: our being disconnected, but when I ask her why Rose
Speaker 2: was kicked out again, the line goes dead. This is
Speaker 2: odd otter Still is a conversation with an Alpha Chi
Speaker 2: sister a year younger than Rose. She says she inherited
Speaker 2: all the disciplinary documents from Rose's year, but that one
Speaker 2: file was missing, the one detailing why Rose had been
Speaker 2: kicked out. Things were beginning to feel kolludy. Hello, oh
Speaker 2: hey Rose, Hi. I call Rose to update her, but
Speaker 2: it seems she's already gotten wind of my doings.
Speaker 1: So I think you must have been reaching out to
Speaker 1: a bunch of different members of Alpha Kai.
Speaker 2: Word had started getting around on Facebook about some guy
Speaker 2: snooping around on Rose's behalf. Quickly a consensus was reached
Speaker 2: shut this guy out.
Speaker 1: Just the way that some of the girls were replying
Speaker 1: in the thread. It just felt like twelve years.
Speaker 3: Hadn't even passed And how do you mean?
Speaker 1: It was just like immediately this whole group dynamic took place,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, instead of people acting like
Speaker 1: mature adults who are in their thirties, it was this
Speaker 1: whole like mom mentality of this is sketchy, we shouldn't respond.
Speaker 1: And then everyone just started to follow in line and
Speaker 1: be like, yeah it was sketchy. Yeah, I'm not.
Speaker 2: Gonna call them, Yeah, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna have
Speaker 2: to go over their heads.
Speaker 4: How Alpha Kaya men a headquarters this is season.
Speaker 2: The Alpha Kai Omega National Headquarters is a large brick
Speaker 2: building at the end of a long tree lined cool
Speaker 2: de sac in Indianapolis, Indiana. It oversees all Alpha ki
Speaker 2: Omega sororities across the country. Anytime a sorority kicks someone out,
Speaker 2: it has to file a report with headquarters. I asked Susan,
Speaker 2: the receptionist, if there might be documents that explain Rose's termination.
Speaker 4: Okay, yes, I'm sure there are.
Speaker 2: Okay, great? And in your experience, is this something that
Speaker 2: comes up sometimes where people want to know why they
Speaker 2: might have been kicked out of a sorority or is
Speaker 2: this uncommon?
Speaker 4: I would think most people would know why.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what happened in her case? This is a woman
Speaker 2: by the name of Rose Shapiro. And how do you
Speaker 2: spell her last name Shapiro? I think it must be
Speaker 2: spelled s h A.
Speaker 4: S H.
Speaker 2: No sha h p s and Peter I R O H.
Speaker 4: Are you okay?
Speaker 6: Yes?
Speaker 4: I did sign her in here?
Speaker 5: Oh?
Speaker 2: Okay?
Speaker 4: Does it?
Speaker 2: Does it say anything with alongside her name?
Speaker 4: I'm just looking at a status So you're.
Speaker 2: So then there is some information alongside her name.
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna because I mean, I can't say anything
Speaker 4: about this member. I wouldn't know her at all. And
Speaker 4: you know, and you're an outsider, you're not the member.
Speaker 2: What if Rose Shapiro were to call you herself, would
Speaker 2: she be able to find out the information?
Speaker 4: I would think so sure.
Speaker 2: Mm hm, well we'll just have to see. After the break,
Speaker 2: a couple of outsiders try to get some inside information.
Speaker 4: Hey Rose, Yes, Hi, Hi, how's.
Speaker 2: It going good? You ready to get some answers? I
Speaker 2: tell Rose about my call with Susan the receptionist, and
Speaker 2: we hatch a plan for contacting headquarters. I think I'll
Speaker 2: call it and connect you and I'll just be quiet.
Speaker 1: All right, let's call. I'm ready. I'm ready for this.
Speaker 7: Okay, I'm going to call right now, Alpha coy O
Speaker 7: Mega Headquarters.
Speaker 4: This is the season.
Speaker 1: Hi, Susan, my name is Rose.
Speaker 2: And lying on my stomach on the floor of the
Speaker 2: darkened studio, I finally feel like a real life popular
Speaker 2: girl as I play with the phone cord and silently
Speaker 2: nibble from a pan of brownies. Rose explains what happened.
Speaker 1: Was ejected from Alpha Kai. I was a member of
Speaker 1: Alpha coy O Mega, the Theta Sigma chapter.
Speaker 4: Okay, and what's your name is Rose Shapiro? Okay, all right,
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give you the Mandy tar water.
Speaker 1: Okay, before you transfer. I did have just one more
Speaker 1: question for you. Is there any way that you can
Speaker 1: just tell from a general perspective if I'm considered as
Speaker 1: a member in good standing or as a former member?
Speaker 1: Is there even is there anyone?
Speaker 8: Yeah?
Speaker 4: I think it's I think it says that you're not
Speaker 4: in good stand. I wish I could help you, but
Speaker 4: I don't know that. Let me see here. Mendy is
Speaker 4: out this afternoon, but she's working tomorrow. Why don't we
Speaker 4: leave a message with Mendy. Sure, yeah, I think you
Speaker 4: should do that.
Speaker 2: Rose leaves a message with this Mendy tar Water. When
Speaker 2: she doesn't hear back. After a week, we call again.
Speaker 2: Over the next month, we keep calling with Rose leaving
Speaker 2: voicemails and me scraping weeks old brownie crust from the
Speaker 2: pan while listening in for emotional support. Okay, you're on Rose.
Speaker 4: At the tone, please record your message.
Speaker 2: My name is Rose Susan. The receptionist passes her off
Speaker 2: to other people at headquarters. Someone named Gina.
Speaker 4: Let's try Gina hold on.
Speaker 7: Then someone named Eliza Eliza Payne is not available to
Speaker 7: take your call.
Speaker 4: Please leave a message after the tone.
Speaker 1: Hikia, Elizah, this is Roe Shapiro trying you again.
Speaker 2: One morning, we phone, only to discover that Susan, the receptionist,
Speaker 2: has been disappeared, possibly for saying too.
Speaker 4: Much Alfa Comega headquarters. This is Cynthia or.
Speaker 2: Susan had the day off?
Speaker 1: Hi Cynthia. My name is Rose Shapiro and I'm a
Speaker 1: former member.
Speaker 2: Cynthia. She sent Rose right back to Mendy Tarwater.
Speaker 1: Hi, Mini, this is Rose Shapiro. I'm the member.
Speaker 5: In the end.
Speaker 2: After months of phone calls, Rose finally hears back from
Speaker 2: Alpha Coyomega headquarters. They pass along a single document, a
Speaker 2: letter dated April twenty first, two thousand and five. The
Speaker 2: letter is brief, plainly stating that Rose Shapiro resigned from
Speaker 2: Alpha Kyomega of her own accord. They have no other
Speaker 2: information to share. We know now definitely that the only
Speaker 2: way that we're going to get anywhere with this is
Speaker 2: actually by finding a sorority girl who was there and
Speaker 2: willing to talk.
Speaker 1: Ah.
Speaker 2: Rose's confidence in me was waning. While she used to
Speaker 2: drop everything for one of my updates, now she was
Speaker 2: sounding bored and distracted. What are you doing right now?
Speaker 1: I'm cutting potatoes? Yeah, I'm cutting potatoes. I'm about to
Speaker 1: make some mashed potatoes.
Speaker 2: Okay, but the cut the chopping might not be so great.
Speaker 2: Recorded Fine, my calls were becoming a nuisance. Rose, What
Speaker 2: are you cleaning out your fridge?
Speaker 6: Oh?
Speaker 1: I'm done.
Speaker 2: I was starting to feel done too. I had nothing.
Speaker 2: But a couple of weeks later, I get a call
Speaker 2: from one of Rose's ex rority sisters, a woman named Tricia. Initially,
Speaker 2: Tricia hadn't been willing to talk, but over the month
Speaker 2: she thought about it and had a change of heart.
Speaker 2: I call Rose to share with her our good fortune.
Speaker 2: As soon as you finished scrubbing all your cookie pants, I'm.
Speaker 1: Not scrubbing any pants, and I'm not chopping any potatoes.
Speaker 2: All right. So Tricia wasn't just any old sorority sister.
Speaker 2: She was one of the six girls in the room
Speaker 2: who kicked Rose out of Alpha Kai. And not only that,
Speaker 2: Tricia and Rose joined Alpha Kai around the same time,
Speaker 2: and people saw them as partners in crime, goofing at parties,
Speaker 2: singing show tunes. Only they knew she was someone Rose
Speaker 2: that legitimately liked and trusted. I explained to Rose that
Speaker 2: since Tricia was the only person willing to speak to us.
Speaker 2: She might be our last chance to get an answer.
Speaker 2: So during the conversation we'd need to tread lightly, and
Speaker 2: I sense that treading lightly might not be Rose's strongest suit.
Speaker 2: The situation required coaxing, possibly even some cajoling, and caution,
Speaker 2: plenty of caution. We would need the perfect moment for
Speaker 2: Rose to spring the question that's been gnawing at her
Speaker 2: for years? Why did you kick me out? So I
Speaker 2: decide that a code word is in order, a word
Speaker 2: I can use to signal to Rose that the time
Speaker 2: is right. I have plenty of experience with code words.
Speaker 2: Dinner party going too late and I want people out
Speaker 2: of my home. Medicine balls, I'll say to the misses,
Speaker 2: and she'll produce a CD of my old spoken word
Speaker 2: band mattress shopping and need to communicate my bottom line
Speaker 2: while avoiding the prying ears of predatory mattress salesman. Medicine balls,
Speaker 2: I'll say, So, every situation requires its own special code word,
Speaker 2: and the hours I'd spend crafting this one had been
Speaker 2: well worth it.
Speaker 1: Okay, what's the code work going to be?
Speaker 5: So?
Speaker 2: Okay? So I was thinking maybe medicine balls.
Speaker 1: No, that's so awkward to insert into the conversations.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I scrambled together my list of Plan B code
Speaker 2: words toilet bowl, toilet plunger, turkey, toilet o de toilette.
Speaker 1: That's very Canadian.
Speaker 2: How about how about if I were to say without
Speaker 2: a do or a don't? Is that something that people say? Oh,
Speaker 2: I'd say. Well, for the better part of an hour,
Speaker 2: Rose and I bat around ideas. Yes, we have no tomatoes, boy,
Speaker 2: or my dog's barking. Some people call me Maurice. Finally
Speaker 2: Rose is satisfied. How about I say, and so it goes.
Speaker 2: That's what I'll show and so it goes, and so
Speaker 2: it goes. Okay, I'm writing that down. So that's going
Speaker 2: to be our code word. Okay, So when I say
Speaker 2: and so it goes, you're gonna say, you know, Tricia,
Speaker 2: like what just what happened? We had a plan, we
Speaker 2: had a code word. It was time for another word
Speaker 2: from our sponsors. Hello, Hey, Tricia, Hey, so I have
Speaker 2: I have Rose on the line. I think you guys
Speaker 2: can hear each other.
Speaker 7: Rose, Hi, Hi.
Speaker 2: It's been years since they've spoken, So Rose and Tricia
Speaker 2: catch up, but mostly they reminisce about homecoming, the big
Speaker 2: Talent Show how they were both awarded Best New Sorority Member.
Speaker 6: And they were like, we've never done this before, but
Speaker 6: here you go.
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I totally forgot about that. We did
Speaker 1: die for best New Member.
Speaker 6: Yeah.
Speaker 2: The conversation eventually turns to Roses cancer going into remission,
Speaker 2: and that's when their memories diverge. According to Tricia, after
Speaker 2: Rose was diagnosed as cancer free, she became a different
Speaker 2: person and started to veer onto what Trisha calls a
Speaker 2: bad pass.
Speaker 6: You got angry, and not at certain people, but just
Speaker 6: that like the situation at life.
Speaker 1: You know, I don't necessarily remember like an anger reaction.
Speaker 6: It's not like you were like pushing people down or
Speaker 6: punching them in the face. To me, I think that
Speaker 6: what I perceived was like partying, partying with attorneys, like
Speaker 6: drinking a lot, like Yolo lifestyle, but also with like
Speaker 6: two big middle fingers up. It's just like yo, no
Speaker 6: one's going to tell me what to do or how
Speaker 6: to live my life.
Speaker 1: I just have a perception of myself that's like ooh,
Speaker 1: I be cancer, Like all bets are off. Man, Like
Speaker 1: now I get to do what I want like I
Speaker 1: did my time, Like now I'm like, like, if I
Speaker 1: want to be drunk on a Tuesday, I deserve to
Speaker 1: be drunk on a Tuesday, because hey, I just be canter,
Speaker 1: Like I think there was you were suffering.
Speaker 2: The conversation was taking a turn from happy reminiscence to
Speaker 2: battling perceptions of the past. Before things could escalate any further,
Speaker 2: something needed to be said, I and so and so
Speaker 2: it goes. I think that just Rose got the memo
Speaker 2: and was back on point.
Speaker 1: I think for me, Trish, and like, I don't know
Speaker 1: if you can understand this part of it getting kicked out,
Speaker 1: like I had no idea was coming.
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm sorry, And I sincerely wish that I could
Speaker 6: give you like a list of like this is what
Speaker 6: it was, this is what it was, this is what
Speaker 6: it was. I honestly like, can't.
Speaker 2: I can't became a common refrain. Rose would ask why
Speaker 2: she'd been kicked out, and Tricia would say she wants
Speaker 2: to tell Rose, but she just can't. I can't talk
Speaker 2: about it, can't get into it.
Speaker 6: Like I wish I could give you specific sentence of
Speaker 6: like at this party, who said this? Does that make sense?
Speaker 2: Like I don't know it wasn't making sense to me,
Speaker 2: and I worried that it wasn't making sense to Rose either,
Speaker 2: So I try to clarify literally, like I'm not sure
Speaker 2: whether it's a matter of like you do know, but
Speaker 2: you feel an obligation to kind of hold the secrets
Speaker 2: of the story all these years later. Do you know
Speaker 2: what I mean?
Speaker 6: Or yeah, no I I and and maybe like I
Speaker 6: would say.
Speaker 2: No, like was there some kind of oath or something
Speaker 2: like that, or was it because you don't.
Speaker 6: Remember well, any CR meeting was like you're under oath.
Speaker 6: Everything that happens in here stays in here. And so
Speaker 6: there was there was a confidentiality, a big confidentiality piece
Speaker 6: to those meetings.
Speaker 2: I get the feeling that Tricia and the most of
Speaker 2: her sisters still feel some obligation to protect the secrets
Speaker 2: and reputation of an organization they joined in their twenties.
Speaker 6: This is I think the hardest thing was to think
Speaker 6: of the health of the chapter as a whole, and
Speaker 6: how maintaining the health of the whole thing sometimes hurts
Speaker 6: like one or two people.
Speaker 2: By the end of the call, Rose had become uncharacteristically quiet.
Speaker 2: So after we all say our goodbyes, I check back
Speaker 2: in with her about how she felt the call went.
Speaker 1: I think it sounds like she has some memories, but
Speaker 1: she's not sure where she picked them up or who
Speaker 1: she's be betraying if she talked about them. She's always
Speaker 1: going to believe and everyone else in that room is
Speaker 1: always going to believe that there was something about my
Speaker 1: behavior that was unbecoming to the image of the sorority.
Speaker 1: And I mean she almost called me a cancer. She
Speaker 1: almost said like for the health of the organization, I
Speaker 1: had to be removed. I think Truth is a bad person.
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed reconnecting with her. I think she's a
Speaker 1: cool girl, But ultimately what I got from her is
Speaker 1: that she doesn't think kicking me out was a mistake.
Speaker 2: For the next few weeks, I try to find someone,
Speaker 2: anyone who might know why Rose was kicked out. I
Speaker 2: phone people in the alumni office, in student relations, people
Speaker 2: who weren't even in Rose's sorority, just on the long
Speaker 2: shot they might have heard something. And then one day
Speaker 2: I get a call back from Rick. Rick was Rose's
Speaker 2: college boyfriend. They dated all through her illness, and when
Speaker 2: we eventually spoke, there was something he told me that
Speaker 2: seemed too strange. To be a coincidence. Hey, Hi, how
Speaker 2: are you?
Speaker 1: Oh shit, I have to like drive through the bank.
Speaker 3: Drive through right now, real quick.
Speaker 2: Always a lot going on. After Rose is done with
Speaker 2: her personal banking, I tell her the news. I phoned
Speaker 2: up Rick.
Speaker 1: Okay.
Speaker 2: And one of the things though, that he shared with
Speaker 2: me and I wonder, I mean, I feel like you
Speaker 2: must know this though we've not ever talked about it,
Speaker 2: is the fact that he was also kicked out of
Speaker 2: his fraternity.
Speaker 4: Holy shit, wait what Yeah?
Speaker 2: Like at the time, he was also kicked out of his.
Speaker 1: Fraternity of k kicked out Rick natering Ouse.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rick was kicked out of his fraternity around the
Speaker 2: same time as Rose was kicked out of Alpha Kai.
Speaker 2: Just like Rose, Rick had been the only person kicked
Speaker 2: out in years, and he never got an answer as
Speaker 2: to why. But unlike Rose, Rick has a theory about it,
Speaker 2: one that explains why both of them got kicked out.
Speaker 2: I suggest to Rose that maybe it'd be a good
Speaker 2: idea for her and Rick to talk.
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should make that happen.
Speaker 5: Hey, Jonathan, how are you good?
Speaker 2: I've got Rose here on the other line. Can you
Speaker 2: guys hear each other?
Speaker 5: Hi, I can hear Rick, Hey, how are you?
Speaker 2: Rick's now a contractor. When I reach him, he's sitting
Speaker 2: in his idling truck at a construction site. Not long
Speaker 2: after their breakup, Rose graduated and moved out of Florida.
Speaker 2: The two haven't spoken in years, and this is the
Speaker 2: first time they've talked about getting kicked out. Right away,
Speaker 2: they start trading stories.
Speaker 8: Mine was just a phone call, and it was a
Speaker 8: phone call from one of our brothers that was founding
Speaker 8: father Chaz, and just basically said, hey, you're.
Speaker 5: You're done here.
Speaker 1: That is so insane. You were like the responsible one.
Speaker 1: That's so insane. Oh my god, I don't know.
Speaker 2: Before they get to Rick's theory, the two of them
Speaker 2: talk about old times. Eventually why their way back to
Speaker 2: the days when they were a couple. When Rose was
Speaker 2: diagnosed with cancer, Rick actually moved her into his apartment.
Speaker 2: He drove her to doctor's appointments, cooked her meals. After
Speaker 2: the pink ribbons had been sold and the fundraising had ended,
Speaker 2: Rick was the one waiting at home to look after
Speaker 2: her at her most sick and vulnerable. Do you remember
Speaker 2: being were you scared at any point?
Speaker 6: Rick?
Speaker 2: Like? Do you fear that? Like Rose was gonna die
Speaker 2: of course.
Speaker 8: I mean, you hear that the word cancer, and that's
Speaker 8: obviously one of the things that you're going to think about.
Speaker 5: You know, we had been dating.
Speaker 8: For a little bit, but it wasn't a great length
Speaker 8: of time before this even happened. So you know, you
Speaker 8: take those feelings that you have for somebody and I mean,
Speaker 8: you're still developing a relationship and then all of a
Speaker 8: sudden it go through and think, hey, you know you
Speaker 8: have cancer.
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean the entire process is terrifying.
Speaker 3: It's terrifying.
Speaker 1: And I was like bald and my skin was turning gray,
Speaker 1: and like there he was like going to functions with
Speaker 1: me and being my boyfriend.
Speaker 3: And I remember one time, I'm in the middle of chemo.
Speaker 1: I am bald, I'm like not doing well, and we
Speaker 1: go down to Daytona to watch the NASCAR event because
Speaker 1: it's right around my birthday.
Speaker 3: It's the beginning of July.
Speaker 1: And then this freak thunderstorm comes out of nowhere and
Speaker 1: the temperature dropped like.
Speaker 3: A crazy amount. It downpours.
Speaker 1: We get completely soaked, and now there's like chemo rose
Speaker 1: is freezing. I have no immune system. I'm just like
Speaker 1: teeth chattering, and so Rick took me over to the
Speaker 1: vendor area and he bought me this like head to
Speaker 1: toe windbreaker outfit of Darryl Earnhardt juice.
Speaker 3: Do you remember that?
Speaker 5: I do? You look like you pretty much belong with
Speaker 5: that van base.
Speaker 1: I looked like a twelve year old boy who was
Speaker 1: sitting in the bleachers with like his older brother's cool friends.
Speaker 2: In spite of all they'd been through. Pretty quickly, after
Speaker 2: her cancer went into remission, Rose broke up with Rick,
Speaker 2: and although Rick was sad, he understood it.
Speaker 8: Rose needed to have some time to be able to
Speaker 8: go and experience life.
Speaker 5: And so when that took place, her and I split,
Speaker 5: and a.
Speaker 8: Lot of people are like, oh, well, you know you
Speaker 8: split because oh, she's in remission and it needs to
Speaker 8: go and kind of live her life.
Speaker 5: Well that's kind of a shit way of doing it,
Speaker 5: because I mean, hell, didn't you take care of her? Yeah?
Speaker 5: But I mean she's got it, She's got to figure
Speaker 5: herself out.
Speaker 8: We both got it, but we got it, and nobody
Speaker 8: else really understood.
Speaker 2: Which brings us to Rick's theory. Rick says that after
Speaker 2: he and Rose broke up, people took sides. Rick's friends
Speaker 2: were mad at Rose, and Rose's friends were mad at Rick,
Speaker 2: and each side started rumors about the other, and in
Speaker 2: that fog of rumors, both of their good names were ruined.
Speaker 2: It was like the breakup version of the Gift of
Speaker 2: the Magi. And as they talk, something in Rick's theory
Speaker 2: seems to click for Rose.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that theory has never crossed my mind, Like I
Speaker 1: am sure someone who felt close to Rick and thought
Speaker 1: that maybe I had done him wrong or something could
Speaker 1: have gotten blown out of proportion by people who felt
Speaker 1: like defensive or protective on either side of that equation.
Speaker 8: Absolutely, I mean I remember, you know, people coming up
Speaker 8: to me that were, I mean not even friends of mine,
Speaker 8: going oh hey, I heard you and Rose split up,
Speaker 8: and I heard she was cheating on you for two years.
Speaker 8: Her was cheating on you for you know, the two
Speaker 8: months before y'all split with another guy from PI Cap
Speaker 8: You remember Trip. Oh yeah, he was the one kick
Speaker 8: comes by my apartment one time.
Speaker 5: He's like, oh man, I walked into her apartment. She
Speaker 5: was having sex with some dude on the stairs, on.
Speaker 2: The stairs, on the stairs. These rumors confirmed what a
Speaker 2: lot of Rose's sorority sisters were beginning to think about
Speaker 2: her after her cancer went into remission, that she was
Speaker 2: too wild, too much of a partier. But how do
Speaker 2: you kick out a poor, innocent cancer survivor from your sorority.
Speaker 2: It's a lot easier if she's not so poor and innocent,
Speaker 2: if she betrayed the loving boyfriend who saw her through
Speaker 2: her illness. These rumors must have been just what the
Speaker 2: sorority had been waiting for. It gave them the moral
Speaker 2: high ground to get rid of her. So while Rose's
Speaker 2: sorority sisters thought her cancer recovery had changed her, Rick
Speaker 2: saw the experience as having changed her back to the
Speaker 2: person she'd been before joining Alpha Kai.
Speaker 8: When she started getting into Alpha Kai, I'm like, what,
Speaker 8: thank who? Really you're gonna You're gonna go that route
Speaker 8: because that's that's not her.
Speaker 4: Rose.
Speaker 2: Are you a Beatles fan?
Speaker 3: Yes?
Speaker 2: Rose had never heard the story of Pete Best, So
Speaker 2: I explain how he was kicked out of the Beatles.
Speaker 2: I tell her about all the different theories I'd heard
Speaker 2: for why he was kicked out, the hair, the style.
Speaker 2: But how lately, looking at old photos of the band
Speaker 2: with Pete Best hunched in the background, it all seems
Speaker 2: a lot simpler when you look at the old photographs
Speaker 2: of those guys of the Beatles with Pete Best altogether,
Speaker 2: like he just doesn't look like a Beatle, you know,
Speaker 2: And in the final analysis, it's sort of like, why
Speaker 2: was he kicked out of the Beatles just because he
Speaker 2: just kind of didn't seem like a Beatle?
Speaker 1: I get the analogy you're driving at here, and I
Speaker 1: think you're right, Like, ultimately, I just wasn't an alpha kai.
Speaker 1: I just wasn't like them. And I can't necessarily put
Speaker 1: into words or a definition what made them similar and
Speaker 1: made me different, But I just know that I was different.
Speaker 2: Roads Have you ever considered, like, had you not gotten cancer,
Speaker 2: that maybe they would have forced you out earlier?
Speaker 1: God?
Speaker 6: Probably.
Speaker 1: I think I was doing a really good job of
Speaker 1: trying to assimilate early on, and I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: my best behavior, but I think that like the real
Speaker 1: me just kept like cracking out, and then once once
Speaker 1: after going through the whole cancer thing, then it's like, oh,
Speaker 1: let's not put.
Speaker 3: On errs anymore.
Speaker 1: Like I am who I am, and I was trying
Speaker 1: really hard to like cram myself into that mold and
Speaker 1: it just wasn't fitting, like it just wasn't working.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think, like, in having spoken to quite
Speaker 2: a few of your old sorority sisters, I mean none
Speaker 2: of them sound like you. No, and I mean that
Speaker 2: I mean that in a nice way.
Speaker 3: No, I'm totally down with that.
Speaker 1: Like I'm a fucking maniac and that's who I am,
Speaker 1: and I've come to fully embrace that right now, Like
Speaker 1: I'm really cool with who I am.
Speaker 2: Well you know, I'm uh, I'm cool with who you are. Also,
Speaker 2: thank you. Years after getting kicked out of the Beatles,
Speaker 2: Pete Best said he was still hopeful that maybe one
Speaker 2: day he'd find out why. Maybe I'll run into Paul,
Speaker 2: he said, and we can talk about it. If decades
Speaker 2: from now, Rose should run into one of her sorority sisters,
Speaker 2: I hope you won't need to talk about anything other
Speaker 2: than the weather or what she's making for supper, And
Speaker 2: then she could say or goodbyes and get back to chopping,
Speaker 2: banking and basically being the maniac that she is.
Speaker 1: Now that the fernentures returning to its goodwill home, now
Speaker 1: that the last month's rent is scheming with the damage
Speaker 1: to poss take this moment to deserve. If we met
Speaker 1: him we tried.
Speaker 2: But felt around for far too.
Speaker 1: From Things that Accidentally.
Speaker 2: Tal Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein
Speaker 2: along with Khalila Holt. The senior producer is Caitlin Roberts.
Speaker 2: Editing by Jorge just, Alex Bloomberg and Wendy Door. Special
Speaker 2: thanks to Emily Condon, Stevie Lane, and Jackie Cohen. The
Speaker 2: show was mixed by Kate Bolinsky, music by Christine Fellows
Speaker 2: and John K. Sampson. Additional music credits for this episode
Speaker 2: can be found on our website, gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight.
Speaker 2: Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of
Speaker 2: Epitaph Records, and our ad music is by Hailey Shaw.
Speaker 2: Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or email us at
Speaker 2: Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. We'll have a new episode
Speaker 2: next week by Palagram. Why a Blazer we repainted? Wh