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Speaker 1: Hey, how are you?

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Speaker 2: I noticed that we're not Facebook friends or not? No,

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Speaker 2: I think.

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Speaker 3: Didn't you try to Facebook friend me?

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Speaker 4: I don't think I responded.

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Speaker 2: Do you know how embarrassing that is? You don't even

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Speaker 2: friend me?

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Speaker 1: Then we're better than Facebook friends, we're real life friends.

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Speaker 2: No, that's worse than Facebook friends because no one knows

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Speaker 2: we're friends. Let's go to the internet right now. Let's

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Speaker 2: friend each other at the exact same.

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Speaker 1: Time, get from each other. Because I have to go

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Speaker 1: to work right now.

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Speaker 2: Can't you take the computer with you.

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Speaker 1: I'm stepping out the door now and I have to

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Speaker 1: get on my.

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Speaker 2: Bicycle bounce on the handlebars. And then you could we

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Speaker 2: could we could facebook chat. Don't you think that's a

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Speaker 2: good idea? If, like, if we both friend each other

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Speaker 2: at the same time? No, why not?

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Speaker 5: One?

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Speaker 2: Two, three? And then we pressed the button? Ready hurtful

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Speaker 2: from Dimlin. I'm Jonathan Goldstein and this is Heavyweight. Today's

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Speaker 2: episode rose In nineteen sixty two, the Beatles had their

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Speaker 2: first number one hit, Love Me Do. A lesser known

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Speaker 2: fact is that just months earlier, the band kicked out

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Speaker 2: their original drummer Pete Best. The Beatles had their manager

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Speaker 2: do the job. The lads just don't want you in

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Speaker 2: the band anymore, he said.

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Speaker 4: No.

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Speaker 2: Further explanation was given, but over the years different theories emerged.

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Speaker 2: Pete Best didn't have the right hair, Pete Best wasn't

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Speaker 2: funny or artsy enough, he didn't dress right. For a

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Speaker 2: long time afterwards, Pete Best wondered why his old friends

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Speaker 2: had kicked him out. But he got married, started a family.

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Speaker 2: Oh bla de oh bla dah, life went on. That's

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Speaker 2: what happens. People get kicked out of bands, parties, jobs,

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Speaker 2: and eventually they stop searching for the reason why. Most

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Speaker 2: people do anyway, So.

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Speaker 1: I moved into my college dorm when I was seventeen.

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Speaker 1: I was an incoming freshman in the fall of two

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Speaker 1: thousand and one.

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Speaker 2: This is Rose and the school she was entering was

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Speaker 2: the University of North Florida.

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Speaker 1: And it's like a beachy community. I was like a

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Speaker 1: cool surfer chick. I dreve like an old Volvo that

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Speaker 1: was covered in like band stickers.

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Speaker 2: Rose was a rebel, and if all the teen movies

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Speaker 2: I'd watched during the mid eighties taught me anything about

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Speaker 2: campus life, it was that rebels don't mix with popular

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Speaker 2: kids and at the University of North Florida, nobody was

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Speaker 2: more popular than the sorority girls.

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Speaker 1: Will you like walk through school and they're set up

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Speaker 1: there and they're like along the sidewalks and.

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Speaker 3: They're like, are you interested in enjoying a sorority?

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Speaker 1: And I would just like blow by on my skateboard

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Speaker 1: and be like no.

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Speaker 3: I didn't think that I'd ever be affiliated with it.

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Speaker 2: With with with sorority life.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, with Greek life, with the sororities and the fraternities

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Speaker 1: and like the cool kids and their pop callers, like,

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Speaker 1: I didn't think that was for me. So the summer

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Speaker 1: after my freshman year, I meet this dude and I

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Speaker 1: start dating him, and he's in a fraternity and I'm

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Speaker 1: making friends with all these people in the Greek community

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Speaker 1: and I'm like, Oh, they're normal, they're not pretentious, they're

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Speaker 1: not weird. I started to dress like them, I started

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Speaker 1: to act like them, and I wanted to be accepted.

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Speaker 3: And the fall of.

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Speaker 1: My junior year, I rushed and I got a bid

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Speaker 1: from Alpha Kai and I joined.

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Speaker 2: Sorry, the name of the sorority.

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Speaker 3: Was, It's called Alpha Kai Omega.

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Speaker 1: Alpha Kai Omega, and we were the Theta Sigma chapter

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Speaker 1: Stata Sigma.

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Speaker 2: Chapter theta with the thh.

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Speaker 1: So it was the Theta Sigma chapter of Alpha ky Omega,

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Speaker 1: and it was at unf sororities.

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Speaker 2: It was a new and exciting world with such a

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Speaker 2: rich history. It turns out that Condolei's a Rice Enron Whistleblow,

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Speaker 2: or Sharon Watkins and Don Wells, who played Marianne on

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Speaker 2: Gilligan's Island, were all members of Alpha Chi and had

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Speaker 2: taken secret oaths to remain sisters for life. I listened

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Speaker 2: avidly as Rose explains what it means to be a

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Speaker 2: part of Alpha chi Omega Theta Sigma chapter.

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Speaker 1: We are classy ladies, We are sophisticated, we wear pearls,

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Speaker 1: we know our manners.

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Speaker 2: You know, like that, did they use the word classy.

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Speaker 3: You're not being classy?

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Speaker 4: Yeah?

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Speaker 3: Absolutely.

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Speaker 1: And they had like all these weird acronyms, like if

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Speaker 1: someone came up to you and whispered in your your pearl,

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Speaker 1: it was like the acronym for pearl, pearl, please engage

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Speaker 1: in acts resembling a lady.

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Speaker 2: So if someone says pearl in your that would mean

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Speaker 2: you would.

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Speaker 1: Begin to It would mean like, let's say I'm doing

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Speaker 1: a keg stand at a party and another sister is there.

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Speaker 1: Instead of being like, young lady, get down, write this instant,

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Speaker 1: because that's causing a scene. Now you're causing attention. Instead,

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Speaker 1: she's supposed to tap me on the shoulder and whisper

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Speaker 1: in my ear pearl, and then I'm supposed to be like, oh,

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Speaker 1: you're right, thank you for reminding me.

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Speaker 2: Rose took on new hobbies, scrap booking with her sorority sisters,

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Speaker 2: building floats for the homecoming parade, and dressing head to

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Speaker 2: toe in scarlet red and olive green, the Alpha Kyomega colors.

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Speaker 2: And while she'd never seen herself being cut out for

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Speaker 2: all of this sorority stuff, the crazy thing was it

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Speaker 2: actually made her really happy.

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Speaker 1: I was a gong ho, like I'm a participator. I

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Speaker 1: got really into it and just walking around school now

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Speaker 1: all of a sudden, like you know everybody, and everybody

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Speaker 1: knows you, and now you're in on the in side

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Speaker 1: jokes like I felt like I belonged, Like I went

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Speaker 1: from being like a disgruntled outsider to being like the

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Speaker 1: bubbly participant.

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Speaker 2: Rose and her sorority sisters did everything together, beach trips,

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Speaker 2: watching The Bachelor, one weekend, they all ran a campus

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Speaker 2: charity race together, but afterwards something felt a miss and.

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Speaker 1: I remember thinking like, man, I feel really tired after

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Speaker 1: that five K and I'm having a lot of trouble

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Speaker 1: sleeping and I keep sweating through my sheets at night.

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Speaker 2: Rose also noticed that her neck was swollen. She was

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Speaker 2: feeling achy and fatigued. After a few weeks, she went

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Speaker 2: to see a doctor.

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Speaker 1: And I said, could you take a look at my neck, Like,

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Speaker 1: I don't think something's right. And the nurse practitioner who

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Speaker 1: was treating me that day just like looked at me

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Speaker 1: in horror and.

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Speaker 3: Was like, you have to go to radiation right now.

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Speaker 1: And I was like, I have to make an appointment,

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Speaker 1: and she was like, no, I'm calling the second floor

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Speaker 1: and you're going to go get a CT scan right now.

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Speaker 3: So it was crazy.

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Speaker 1: They called it nodular sclerosing Hodgkins lymphoma. I had huge,

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Speaker 1: pronounced lymph notes all over my body. You could take

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Speaker 1: one look at me and it looked like my neck

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Speaker 1: and chest were just full of golf balls, like something

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Speaker 1: was wrong. By the time we started testing and staging,

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Speaker 1: I mean I was a stage three. This is like

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Speaker 1: big cake cancer. This is like shave your head, Rose,

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Speaker 1: like you've got real cancer. So I think around May

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Speaker 1: I started chemo.

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Speaker 2: Rose dropped out of her classes and quit her extracurriculars.

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Speaker 2: Her days filled up with doctor's appointments and chemotherapy. The

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Speaker 2: one bright note throughout was the support she got from

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Speaker 2: her sorority sisters. They took her to concerts in Jacksonville

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Speaker 2: Jaguar football games, they sold hot pink ribbons in the

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Speaker 2: quad and raised thousands of dollars for Rose's treatment. Alpha

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Speaker 2: Kai took care of Rose, and Rose was dedicated to

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Speaker 2: Alpha Kai. She was on the executive board in charge

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Speaker 2: of recruiting new members, and even through her cancer, she

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Speaker 2: kept up with her work.

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Speaker 1: And new girls are coming through and they have to

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Speaker 1: decide which sorority they want to join. And now Alpha

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Speaker 1: Kai has like one hell of a tale to tell.

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Speaker 1: Now we're not just a regular sorority. We're the sorority

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Speaker 1: with the cancer girl and we're saving her life.

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Speaker 2: And that was something that they led with, that was

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Speaker 2: actually something that was made explicit.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I got up there with my bald head and

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Speaker 1: gave a speech and cried every time about how my

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Speaker 1: sisters were saving my life.

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Speaker 2: Rose was lucky. By the spring of her senior year,

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Speaker 2: her cancer went into remission for the first time in

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Speaker 2: more than a year. She felt like a normal college kid.

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Speaker 1: I just had a lot of fun that semester. My

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Speaker 1: hair's starting to grow back, I'm starting to get my

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Speaker 1: energy back. I'm starting to feel like a normal person,

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Speaker 1: and like, now I'm not just going to a party

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Speaker 1: to like, you know, make sure I'm getting out of

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Speaker 1: the house, like now I want a party, Like now

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Speaker 1: I want to have fun.

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Speaker 3: So I did. I felt like I deserved it.

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Speaker 2: Then one night, after being cancer free for five months,

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Speaker 2: Rose went to Alpha Kai's weekly meeting, which I met

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Speaker 2: in an old auditorium on campus.

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Speaker 1: And I come to the meeting and they're like, hey, Rose,

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Speaker 1: can you stay after We need to talk to you.

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Speaker 1: So they clear everybody out and now it's just like

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Speaker 1: five or six women and me, and they're like, all right, Rose,

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Speaker 1: like this is gonna be tough. We're gonna have to

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Speaker 1: ask you to resign. And I was like, excuse me, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: we're gonna have to ask you to resign. And I

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Speaker 1: thought they meant from my position, my officer position. I'm like,

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Speaker 1: you're asking me to step down? As VP recruitment, like

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Speaker 1: the new girls love me, I'm great with the new girls.

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Speaker 1: Why I've got this marketing on lock And they're like, oh, no, no, no,

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Speaker 1: we want you to resign from the organization. We want

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Speaker 1: you to resign from Alpha Kai.

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Speaker 2: And I lost it.

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Speaker 1: It's like you know that feeling when someone's breaking up

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Speaker 1: with you, and like you get that cold feeling in

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Speaker 1: your chest and you know that someone's about to look

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Speaker 1: at you and say like this isn't Yeah. It was

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Speaker 1: like that times one hundred, Like now a hundred of

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Speaker 1: my friends were all breaking up with me in a

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Speaker 1: very methodical way, and I didn't see it coming, and

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Speaker 1: I just kept.

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Speaker 3: Saying, why, what do you mean you want me out?

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Speaker 1: And this is when they just all of a sudden,

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Speaker 1: it was like these women I'd known for years, they

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Speaker 1: were strangers and there was no compassion, there was no kindness.

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Speaker 3: It was you know what you did, Rose, you know

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Speaker 3: what you did?

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Speaker 1: And I was like, no, no, you have to tell

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Speaker 1: me what did I do? Did something bad happen?

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Speaker 2: Rose?

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Speaker 3: We're not getting into it. You know what you did?

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Speaker 3: And I'm just like, no, no, I don't know what

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Speaker 3: I did.

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Speaker 1: And at this point I am so distraught. I think

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Speaker 1: I'm like hyperventilating and crying. I think I'm ugly crying.

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Speaker 1: I think, like snaw, it's just bubbling out of my

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Speaker 1: nose and I don't have the wherewithal to demand answers.

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Speaker 3: And I'm like, so that's it, We're done here.

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Speaker 1: You want me out and they're like, yeah, as of tonight,

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Speaker 1: you are no longer affiliated with Alpha ky Omega.

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Speaker 2: She was getting straight a's, she was on the student council,

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Speaker 2: She never done anything illegal, but Rose was out and

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Speaker 2: no one would tell.

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Speaker 3: Her why No one has ever told me?

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Speaker 2: And did you ever pursue it further?

225
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Speaker 3: God, yes, for years?

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Speaker 1: Like, hey guys, it's been five years since we graduated college.

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Speaker 1: I know this is kind of weird, but I still

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Speaker 1: think about it. Does anyone want to tell me? I've

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Speaker 1: done the thing on Facebook where I've made the big

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Speaker 1: Facebook post where I'm like, all right, does everyone remember

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00:11:46,200 --> 00:11:48,440
Speaker 1: when Rose got kicked out Alpha Kai, Like if you

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Speaker 1: or anyone you know has any information, like I'm still

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Speaker 1: dying to know, And then like dozens of my friends

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Speaker 1: are like, oh, I'm following this post.

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Speaker 2: What was it?

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Speaker 3: What was it?

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Speaker 1: And still to this day, no answers like you're racking

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Speaker 1: your brain. I'm like, did I get blackout drunk and

239
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:03,360
Speaker 1: sleep with someone's boyfriend?

240
00:12:04,840 --> 00:12:07,559
Speaker 2: Did you ever see any other of the sisters get

241
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Speaker 2: kicked out?

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00:12:08,679 --> 00:12:09,599
Speaker 1: No?

243
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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: And that's the thing, is like, Okay, let's not mince

245
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Speaker 1: words here, like was Rosea party girl?

246
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Speaker 2: Yes?

247
00:12:15,760 --> 00:12:17,440
Speaker 3: Were there girls who were way worse than me?

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Speaker 2: Absolutely?

249
00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:20,280
Speaker 3: And did they get kicked out? Never?

250
00:12:21,280 --> 00:12:24,160
Speaker 2: Does Rose refer to herself in the third person? Yes,

251
00:12:24,440 --> 00:12:28,120
Speaker 2: does you present the puzzling riddle? Absolutely? And would Jonathan

252
00:12:28,160 --> 00:12:35,440
Speaker 2: quit before solving it? Never. Rose's college memories have all

253
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Speaker 2: been tainted by that one day twelve years ago, but

254
00:12:38,840 --> 00:12:42,280
Speaker 2: her ex sorority sisters are now adult women in their thirties.

255
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Speaker 2: They had to be past the college drama. So after

256
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Speaker 2: Rose and I part, I begin reaching out to them

257
00:12:50,360 --> 00:12:56,400
Speaker 2: for their help. Hey, Amanda, this is Jonathan Goldstein. Trish,

258
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Speaker 2: I've been trying to get in touch Anita. I was

259
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Speaker 2: trying to reach you.

260
00:13:00,400 --> 00:13:00,559
Speaker 5: Zoe.

261
00:13:00,679 --> 00:13:04,280
Speaker 2: This is Jonathan goldste we'll speak soon, Claire. I phone

262
00:13:04,320 --> 00:13:05,080
Speaker 2: them in their cars.

263
00:13:05,440 --> 00:13:09,199
Speaker 1: Hi, Hey, I've got my daughter walking into BALLEI class short.

264
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Speaker 2: No, of course, I phone them in their homes. Do

265
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Speaker 2: you have a minute to.

266
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Speaker 1: Speak, I do, I have a toddler to say, you.

267
00:13:15,679 --> 00:13:17,720
Speaker 2: Know, oh yeah, no, that's fine, Hi on.

268
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Speaker 1: Sugar, because she just pole the bag of jelly being

269
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Speaker 1: But yes, no, I cannot pick you up. I'm not

270
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Speaker 1: picking you up.

271
00:13:25,520 --> 00:13:33,320
Speaker 6: No, I'm sorry.

272
00:13:33,360 --> 00:13:36,200
Speaker 2: But not one of Rose's ex sorority sisters can tell

273
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Speaker 2: me why she'd been kicked out. Some say they don't remember,

274
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Speaker 2: it was so long ago. Others say they never knew why.

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Speaker 2: There were nearly one hundred women in Alpha Kai, but

276
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Speaker 2: only a handful had been in the room when Rose

277
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Speaker 2: was kicked out. One of these women was named Amber.

278
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Speaker 2: When I phone her, she's busy but tells me to

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Speaker 2: call back, So a few days later I do, Hey, Amber,

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Speaker 2: this is Jonathan Goldstein. I think we spoke briefly some

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00:14:04,840 --> 00:14:11,320
Speaker 2: time ago. Hello. I call back, and Amber apologizes for

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00:14:11,360 --> 00:14:14,160
Speaker 2: our being disconnected, but when I ask her why Rose

283
00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:20,120
Speaker 2: was kicked out again, the line goes dead. This is

284
00:14:20,160 --> 00:14:23,720
Speaker 2: odd otter Still is a conversation with an Alpha Chi

285
00:14:23,880 --> 00:14:27,800
Speaker 2: sister a year younger than Rose. She says she inherited

286
00:14:27,840 --> 00:14:31,280
Speaker 2: all the disciplinary documents from Rose's year, but that one

287
00:14:31,320 --> 00:14:35,200
Speaker 2: file was missing, the one detailing why Rose had been

288
00:14:35,280 --> 00:14:49,680
Speaker 2: kicked out. Things were beginning to feel kolludy. Hello, oh

289
00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:55,440
Speaker 2: hey Rose, Hi. I call Rose to update her, but

290
00:14:55,480 --> 00:14:58,000
Speaker 2: it seems she's already gotten wind of my doings.

291
00:14:59,040 --> 00:15:02,240
Speaker 1: So I think you must have been reaching out to

292
00:15:02,360 --> 00:15:04,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of different members of Alpha Kai.

293
00:15:05,480 --> 00:15:08,560
Speaker 2: Word had started getting around on Facebook about some guy

294
00:15:08,760 --> 00:15:13,600
Speaker 2: snooping around on Rose's behalf. Quickly a consensus was reached

295
00:15:14,240 --> 00:15:15,640
Speaker 2: shut this guy out.

296
00:15:18,560 --> 00:15:20,600
Speaker 1: Just the way that some of the girls were replying

297
00:15:20,640 --> 00:15:23,359
Speaker 1: in the thread. It just felt like twelve years.

298
00:15:23,080 --> 00:15:25,480
Speaker 3: Hadn't even passed And how do you mean?

299
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,800
Speaker 1: It was just like immediately this whole group dynamic took place,

300
00:15:29,840 --> 00:15:32,160
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden, instead of people acting like

301
00:15:32,280 --> 00:15:35,480
Speaker 1: mature adults who are in their thirties, it was this

302
00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,360
Speaker 1: whole like mom mentality of this is sketchy, we shouldn't respond.

303
00:15:38,360 --> 00:15:40,360
Speaker 1: And then everyone just started to follow in line and

304
00:15:40,400 --> 00:15:42,440
Speaker 1: be like, yeah it was sketchy. Yeah, I'm not.

305
00:15:42,320 --> 00:15:46,200
Speaker 2: Gonna call them, Yeah, Okay, we're gonna We're gonna have

306
00:15:46,280 --> 00:15:47,480
Speaker 2: to go over their heads.

307
00:15:48,680 --> 00:16:01,640
Speaker 4: How Alpha Kaya men a headquarters this is season.

308
00:16:02,600 --> 00:16:06,200
Speaker 2: The Alpha Kai Omega National Headquarters is a large brick

309
00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:08,920
Speaker 2: building at the end of a long tree lined cool

310
00:16:08,920 --> 00:16:13,520
Speaker 2: de sac in Indianapolis, Indiana. It oversees all Alpha ki

311
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Speaker 2: Omega sororities across the country. Anytime a sorority kicks someone out,

312
00:16:18,440 --> 00:16:22,360
Speaker 2: it has to file a report with headquarters. I asked Susan,

313
00:16:22,400 --> 00:16:26,400
Speaker 2: the receptionist, if there might be documents that explain Rose's termination.

314
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Speaker 4: Okay, yes, I'm sure there are.

315
00:16:29,600 --> 00:16:32,640
Speaker 2: Okay, great? And in your experience, is this something that

316
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:36,720
Speaker 2: comes up sometimes where people want to know why they

317
00:16:36,800 --> 00:16:38,680
Speaker 2: might have been kicked out of a sorority or is

318
00:16:38,720 --> 00:16:39,280
Speaker 2: this uncommon?

319
00:16:39,520 --> 00:16:41,480
Speaker 4: I would think most people would know why.

320
00:16:41,920 --> 00:16:46,040
Speaker 2: Yeah, what happened in her case? This is a woman

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Speaker 2: by the name of Rose Shapiro. And how do you

322
00:16:48,560 --> 00:16:51,560
Speaker 2: spell her last name Shapiro? I think it must be

323
00:16:51,600 --> 00:16:53,040
Speaker 2: spelled s h A.

324
00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:55,880
Speaker 4: S H.

325
00:16:58,440 --> 00:17:15,320
Speaker 2: No sha h p s and Peter I R O H.

326
00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:18,760
Speaker 4: Are you okay?

327
00:17:18,840 --> 00:17:19,080
Speaker 6: Yes?

328
00:17:19,320 --> 00:17:20,919
Speaker 4: I did sign her in here?

329
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:21,680
Speaker 5: Oh?

330
00:17:21,800 --> 00:17:22,159
Speaker 2: Okay?

331
00:17:23,400 --> 00:17:23,679
Speaker 4: Does it?

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00:17:23,760 --> 00:17:27,520
Speaker 2: Does it say anything with alongside her name?

333
00:17:30,000 --> 00:17:34,000
Speaker 4: I'm just looking at a status So you're.

334
00:17:33,720 --> 00:17:36,400
Speaker 2: So then there is some information alongside her name.

335
00:17:38,720 --> 00:17:43,160
Speaker 4: I'm not gonna because I mean, I can't say anything

336
00:17:43,200 --> 00:17:47,760
Speaker 4: about this member. I wouldn't know her at all. And

337
00:17:49,160 --> 00:17:52,720
Speaker 4: you know, and you're an outsider, you're not the member.

338
00:17:56,040 --> 00:17:59,520
Speaker 2: What if Rose Shapiro were to call you herself, would

339
00:17:59,600 --> 00:18:01,359
Speaker 2: she be able to find out the information?

340
00:18:03,680 --> 00:18:05,080
Speaker 4: I would think so sure.

341
00:18:06,400 --> 00:18:14,560
Speaker 2: Mm hm, well we'll just have to see. After the break,

342
00:18:14,840 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 2: a couple of outsiders try to get some inside information.

343
00:18:32,560 --> 00:18:38,320
Speaker 4: Hey Rose, Yes, Hi, Hi, how's.

344
00:18:38,080 --> 00:18:41,520
Speaker 2: It going good? You ready to get some answers? I

345
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:44,720
Speaker 2: tell Rose about my call with Susan the receptionist, and

346
00:18:44,800 --> 00:18:48,200
Speaker 2: we hatch a plan for contacting headquarters. I think I'll

347
00:18:48,200 --> 00:18:50,720
Speaker 2: call it and connect you and I'll just be quiet.

348
00:18:51,359 --> 00:18:53,639
Speaker 1: All right, let's call. I'm ready. I'm ready for this.

349
00:18:54,800 --> 00:19:07,680
Speaker 7: Okay, I'm going to call right now, Alpha coy O

350
00:19:07,840 --> 00:19:08,840
Speaker 7: Mega Headquarters.

351
00:19:08,920 --> 00:19:09,679
Speaker 4: This is the season.

352
00:19:11,240 --> 00:19:13,240
Speaker 1: Hi, Susan, my name is Rose.

353
00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:16,720
Speaker 2: And lying on my stomach on the floor of the

354
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,680
Speaker 2: darkened studio, I finally feel like a real life popular

355
00:19:20,720 --> 00:19:24,320
Speaker 2: girl as I play with the phone cord and silently

356
00:19:24,440 --> 00:19:27,920
Speaker 2: nibble from a pan of brownies. Rose explains what happened.

357
00:19:28,240 --> 00:19:31,080
Speaker 1: Was ejected from Alpha Kai. I was a member of

358
00:19:31,160 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 1: Alpha coy O Mega, the Theta Sigma chapter.

359
00:19:34,080 --> 00:19:38,480
Speaker 4: Okay, and what's your name is Rose Shapiro? Okay, all right,

360
00:19:38,560 --> 00:19:40,960
Speaker 4: I'm gonna give you the Mandy tar water.

361
00:19:42,000 --> 00:19:45,360
Speaker 1: Okay, before you transfer. I did have just one more

362
00:19:45,480 --> 00:19:48,680
Speaker 1: question for you. Is there any way that you can

363
00:19:48,800 --> 00:19:52,360
Speaker 1: just tell from a general perspective if I'm considered as

364
00:19:52,400 --> 00:19:54,920
Speaker 1: a member in good standing or as a former member?

365
00:19:55,000 --> 00:19:56,080
Speaker 1: Is there even is there anyone?

366
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:57,400
Speaker 8: Yeah?

367
00:19:57,440 --> 00:19:59,359
Speaker 4: I think it's I think it says that you're not

368
00:19:59,400 --> 00:20:02,760
Speaker 4: in good stand. I wish I could help you, but

369
00:20:02,960 --> 00:20:07,199
Speaker 4: I don't know that. Let me see here. Mendy is

370
00:20:07,359 --> 00:20:11,320
Speaker 4: out this afternoon, but she's working tomorrow. Why don't we

371
00:20:11,359 --> 00:20:16,399
Speaker 4: leave a message with Mendy. Sure, yeah, I think you

372
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:17,120
Speaker 4: should do that.

373
00:20:19,680 --> 00:20:23,000
Speaker 2: Rose leaves a message with this Mendy tar Water. When

374
00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:25,679
Speaker 2: she doesn't hear back. After a week, we call again.

375
00:20:26,600 --> 00:20:29,879
Speaker 2: Over the next month, we keep calling with Rose leaving

376
00:20:29,960 --> 00:20:33,520
Speaker 2: voicemails and me scraping weeks old brownie crust from the

377
00:20:33,560 --> 00:20:38,440
Speaker 2: pan while listening in for emotional support. Okay, you're on Rose.

378
00:20:39,080 --> 00:20:40,960
Speaker 4: At the tone, please record your message.

379
00:20:42,680 --> 00:20:45,560
Speaker 2: My name is Rose Susan. The receptionist passes her off

380
00:20:45,600 --> 00:20:48,359
Speaker 2: to other people at headquarters. Someone named Gina.

381
00:20:48,920 --> 00:20:50,359
Speaker 4: Let's try Gina hold on.

382
00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:55,000
Speaker 7: Then someone named Eliza Eliza Payne is not available to

383
00:20:55,080 --> 00:20:55,800
Speaker 7: take your call.

384
00:20:56,320 --> 00:20:59,080
Speaker 4: Please leave a message after the tone.

385
00:21:00,040 --> 00:21:03,040
Speaker 1: Hikia, Elizah, this is Roe Shapiro trying you again.

386
00:21:03,280 --> 00:21:06,680
Speaker 2: One morning, we phone, only to discover that Susan, the receptionist,

387
00:21:07,119 --> 00:21:10,120
Speaker 2: has been disappeared, possibly for saying too.

388
00:21:10,080 --> 00:21:13,520
Speaker 4: Much Alfa Comega headquarters. This is Cynthia or.

389
00:21:13,600 --> 00:21:14,680
Speaker 2: Susan had the day off?

390
00:21:15,160 --> 00:21:17,919
Speaker 1: Hi Cynthia. My name is Rose Shapiro and I'm a

391
00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:18,560
Speaker 1: former member.

392
00:21:18,800 --> 00:21:22,359
Speaker 2: Cynthia. She sent Rose right back to Mendy Tarwater.

393
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:26,639
Speaker 1: Hi, Mini, this is Rose Shapiro. I'm the member.

394
00:21:26,840 --> 00:21:27,400
Speaker 5: In the end.

395
00:21:27,560 --> 00:21:30,720
Speaker 2: After months of phone calls, Rose finally hears back from

396
00:21:30,760 --> 00:21:35,560
Speaker 2: Alpha Coyomega headquarters. They pass along a single document, a

397
00:21:35,640 --> 00:21:39,520
Speaker 2: letter dated April twenty first, two thousand and five. The

398
00:21:39,600 --> 00:21:43,800
Speaker 2: letter is brief, plainly stating that Rose Shapiro resigned from

399
00:21:43,880 --> 00:21:47,680
Speaker 2: Alpha Kyomega of her own accord. They have no other

400
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:53,240
Speaker 2: information to share. We know now definitely that the only

401
00:21:53,359 --> 00:21:56,520
Speaker 2: way that we're going to get anywhere with this is

402
00:21:56,560 --> 00:22:02,119
Speaker 2: actually by finding a sorority girl who was there and

403
00:22:02,160 --> 00:22:02,960
Speaker 2: willing to talk.

404
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:06,840
Speaker 1: Ah.

405
00:22:06,920 --> 00:22:10,080
Speaker 2: Rose's confidence in me was waning. While she used to

406
00:22:10,160 --> 00:22:13,159
Speaker 2: drop everything for one of my updates, now she was

407
00:22:13,200 --> 00:22:17,920
Speaker 2: sounding bored and distracted. What are you doing right now?

408
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,320
Speaker 1: I'm cutting potatoes? Yeah, I'm cutting potatoes. I'm about to

409
00:22:21,320 --> 00:22:22,359
Speaker 1: make some mashed potatoes.

410
00:22:22,359 --> 00:22:25,400
Speaker 2: Okay, but the cut the chopping might not be so great.

411
00:22:27,000 --> 00:22:36,560
Speaker 2: Recorded Fine, my calls were becoming a nuisance. Rose, What

412
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:37,679
Speaker 2: are you cleaning out your fridge?

413
00:22:38,160 --> 00:22:38,320
Speaker 6: Oh?

414
00:22:38,520 --> 00:22:40,640
Speaker 1: I'm done.

415
00:22:41,040 --> 00:22:44,439
Speaker 2: I was starting to feel done too. I had nothing.

416
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:47,360
Speaker 2: But a couple of weeks later, I get a call

417
00:22:47,480 --> 00:22:56,800
Speaker 2: from one of Rose's ex rority sisters, a woman named Tricia. Initially,

418
00:22:57,160 --> 00:22:59,960
Speaker 2: Tricia hadn't been willing to talk, but over the month

419
00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:02,600
Speaker 2: she thought about it and had a change of heart.

420
00:23:03,359 --> 00:23:05,920
Speaker 2: I call Rose to share with her our good fortune.

421
00:23:06,840 --> 00:23:10,760
Speaker 2: As soon as you finished scrubbing all your cookie pants, I'm.

422
00:23:10,560 --> 00:23:14,280
Speaker 1: Not scrubbing any pants, and I'm not chopping any potatoes.

423
00:23:14,400 --> 00:23:19,639
Speaker 2: All right. So Tricia wasn't just any old sorority sister.

424
00:23:20,080 --> 00:23:21,880
Speaker 2: She was one of the six girls in the room

425
00:23:21,920 --> 00:23:25,160
Speaker 2: who kicked Rose out of Alpha Kai. And not only that,

426
00:23:25,600 --> 00:23:28,679
Speaker 2: Tricia and Rose joined Alpha Kai around the same time,

427
00:23:28,960 --> 00:23:32,600
Speaker 2: and people saw them as partners in crime, goofing at parties,

428
00:23:32,800 --> 00:23:36,040
Speaker 2: singing show tunes. Only they knew she was someone Rose

429
00:23:36,080 --> 00:23:40,119
Speaker 2: that legitimately liked and trusted. I explained to Rose that

430
00:23:40,200 --> 00:23:42,960
Speaker 2: since Tricia was the only person willing to speak to us.

431
00:23:43,320 --> 00:23:45,520
Speaker 2: She might be our last chance to get an answer.

432
00:23:46,119 --> 00:23:49,919
Speaker 2: So during the conversation we'd need to tread lightly, and

433
00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,800
Speaker 2: I sense that treading lightly might not be Rose's strongest suit.

434
00:23:58,000 --> 00:24:03,320
Speaker 2: The situation required coaxing, possibly even some cajoling, and caution,

435
00:24:04,040 --> 00:24:07,960
Speaker 2: plenty of caution. We would need the perfect moment for

436
00:24:08,080 --> 00:24:11,080
Speaker 2: Rose to spring the question that's been gnawing at her

437
00:24:11,119 --> 00:24:15,919
Speaker 2: for years? Why did you kick me out? So I

438
00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:18,640
Speaker 2: decide that a code word is in order, a word

439
00:24:18,680 --> 00:24:21,520
Speaker 2: I can use to signal to Rose that the time

440
00:24:21,840 --> 00:24:26,000
Speaker 2: is right. I have plenty of experience with code words.

441
00:24:26,440 --> 00:24:28,800
Speaker 2: Dinner party going too late and I want people out

442
00:24:28,840 --> 00:24:31,840
Speaker 2: of my home. Medicine balls, I'll say to the misses,

443
00:24:32,119 --> 00:24:34,879
Speaker 2: and she'll produce a CD of my old spoken word

444
00:24:34,920 --> 00:24:38,400
Speaker 2: band mattress shopping and need to communicate my bottom line

445
00:24:38,440 --> 00:24:43,280
Speaker 2: while avoiding the prying ears of predatory mattress salesman. Medicine balls,

446
00:24:43,440 --> 00:24:49,080
Speaker 2: I'll say, So, every situation requires its own special code word,

447
00:24:49,520 --> 00:24:52,280
Speaker 2: and the hours I'd spend crafting this one had been

448
00:24:52,280 --> 00:24:52,959
Speaker 2: well worth it.

449
00:24:54,000 --> 00:24:56,000
Speaker 1: Okay, what's the code work going to be?

450
00:24:56,520 --> 00:24:56,600
Speaker 5: So?

451
00:24:56,720 --> 00:25:01,560
Speaker 2: Okay? So I was thinking maybe medicine balls.

452
00:25:03,480 --> 00:25:06,959
Speaker 1: No, that's so awkward to insert into the conversations.

453
00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:12,240
Speaker 2: Yeah, I scrambled together my list of Plan B code

454
00:25:12,240 --> 00:25:17,520
Speaker 2: words toilet bowl, toilet plunger, turkey, toilet o de toilette.

455
00:25:18,040 --> 00:25:19,080
Speaker 1: That's very Canadian.

456
00:25:19,400 --> 00:25:21,000
Speaker 2: How about how about if I were to say without

457
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,800
Speaker 2: a do or a don't? Is that something that people say? Oh,

458
00:25:23,840 --> 00:25:25,600
Speaker 2: I'd say. Well, for the better part of an hour,

459
00:25:25,880 --> 00:25:30,160
Speaker 2: Rose and I bat around ideas. Yes, we have no tomatoes, boy,

460
00:25:30,240 --> 00:25:34,600
Speaker 2: or my dog's barking. Some people call me Maurice. Finally

461
00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,040
Speaker 2: Rose is satisfied. How about I say, and so it goes.

462
00:25:38,080 --> 00:25:41,359
Speaker 2: That's what I'll show and so it goes, and so

463
00:25:41,440 --> 00:25:43,520
Speaker 2: it goes. Okay, I'm writing that down. So that's going

464
00:25:43,560 --> 00:25:45,880
Speaker 2: to be our code word. Okay, So when I say

465
00:25:45,960 --> 00:25:51,160
Speaker 2: and so it goes, you're gonna say, you know, Tricia,

466
00:25:51,480 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 2: like what just what happened? We had a plan, we

467
00:25:57,040 --> 00:26:02,679
Speaker 2: had a code word. It was time for another word

468
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 2: from our sponsors. Hello, Hey, Tricia, Hey, so I have

469
00:26:19,400 --> 00:26:22,320
Speaker 2: I have Rose on the line. I think you guys

470
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:23,080
Speaker 2: can hear each other.

471
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,560
Speaker 7: Rose, Hi, Hi.

472
00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:31,000
Speaker 2: It's been years since they've spoken, So Rose and Tricia

473
00:26:31,119 --> 00:26:35,720
Speaker 2: catch up, but mostly they reminisce about homecoming, the big

474
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,920
Speaker 2: Talent Show how they were both awarded Best New Sorority Member.

475
00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,000
Speaker 6: And they were like, we've never done this before, but

476
00:26:43,280 --> 00:26:43,840
Speaker 6: here you go.

477
00:26:44,040 --> 00:26:46,840
Speaker 1: Oh my god, I totally forgot about that. We did

478
00:26:46,960 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: die for best New Member.

479
00:26:48,600 --> 00:26:50,199
Speaker 6: Yeah.

480
00:26:50,600 --> 00:26:54,520
Speaker 2: The conversation eventually turns to Roses cancer going into remission,

481
00:26:55,119 --> 00:26:59,080
Speaker 2: and that's when their memories diverge. According to Tricia, after

482
00:26:59,160 --> 00:27:02,399
Speaker 2: Rose was diagnosed as cancer free, she became a different

483
00:27:02,400 --> 00:27:06,119
Speaker 2: person and started to veer onto what Trisha calls a

484
00:27:06,160 --> 00:27:06,800
Speaker 2: bad pass.

485
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:10,359
Speaker 6: You got angry, and not at certain people, but just

486
00:27:10,359 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 6: that like the situation at life.

487
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:20,800
Speaker 1: You know, I don't necessarily remember like an anger reaction.

488
00:27:21,359 --> 00:27:24,879
Speaker 6: It's not like you were like pushing people down or

489
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:27,119
Speaker 6: punching them in the face. To me, I think that

490
00:27:27,160 --> 00:27:32,760
Speaker 6: what I perceived was like partying, partying with attorneys, like

491
00:27:33,160 --> 00:27:37,399
Speaker 6: drinking a lot, like Yolo lifestyle, but also with like

492
00:27:37,560 --> 00:27:40,960
Speaker 6: two big middle fingers up. It's just like yo, no

493
00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:42,520
Speaker 6: one's going to tell me what to do or how

494
00:27:42,560 --> 00:27:43,280
Speaker 6: to live my life.

495
00:27:43,320 --> 00:27:48,080
Speaker 1: I just have a perception of myself that's like ooh,

496
00:27:48,119 --> 00:27:50,560
Speaker 1: I be cancer, Like all bets are off. Man, Like

497
00:27:50,600 --> 00:27:52,159
Speaker 1: now I get to do what I want like I

498
00:27:52,480 --> 00:27:56,960
Speaker 1: did my time, Like now I'm like, like, if I

499
00:27:57,000 --> 00:27:58,919
Speaker 1: want to be drunk on a Tuesday, I deserve to

500
00:27:58,920 --> 00:28:01,800
Speaker 1: be drunk on a Tuesday, because hey, I just be canter,

501
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:04,800
Speaker 1: Like I think there was you were suffering.

502
00:28:05,040 --> 00:28:08,280
Speaker 2: The conversation was taking a turn from happy reminiscence to

503
00:28:08,359 --> 00:28:12,679
Speaker 2: battling perceptions of the past. Before things could escalate any further,

504
00:28:13,280 --> 00:28:18,280
Speaker 2: something needed to be said, I and so and so

505
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:26,520
Speaker 2: it goes. I think that just Rose got the memo

506
00:28:27,040 --> 00:28:28,879
Speaker 2: and was back on point.

507
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,480
Speaker 1: I think for me, Trish, and like, I don't know

508
00:28:32,520 --> 00:28:35,800
Speaker 1: if you can understand this part of it getting kicked out,

509
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:37,840
Speaker 1: like I had no idea was coming.

510
00:28:39,880 --> 00:28:45,720
Speaker 6: Yeah, I'm sorry, And I sincerely wish that I could

511
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,640
Speaker 6: give you like a list of like this is what

512
00:28:47,680 --> 00:28:49,080
Speaker 6: it was, this is what it was, this is what

513
00:28:49,120 --> 00:28:51,520
Speaker 6: it was. I honestly like, can't.

514
00:28:52,200 --> 00:28:56,040
Speaker 2: I can't became a common refrain. Rose would ask why

515
00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:59,160
Speaker 2: she'd been kicked out, and Tricia would say she wants

516
00:28:59,160 --> 00:29:02,680
Speaker 2: to tell Rose, but she just can't. I can't talk

517
00:29:02,680 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 2: about it, can't get into it.

518
00:29:04,920 --> 00:29:07,040
Speaker 6: Like I wish I could give you specific sentence of

519
00:29:07,160 --> 00:29:09,840
Speaker 6: like at this party, who said this? Does that make sense?

520
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:11,880
Speaker 2: Like I don't know it wasn't making sense to me,

521
00:29:12,520 --> 00:29:15,000
Speaker 2: and I worried that it wasn't making sense to Rose either,

522
00:29:15,560 --> 00:29:18,719
Speaker 2: So I try to clarify literally, like I'm not sure

523
00:29:19,360 --> 00:29:22,880
Speaker 2: whether it's a matter of like you do know, but

524
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 2: you feel an obligation to kind of hold the secrets

525
00:29:27,800 --> 00:29:29,760
Speaker 2: of the story all these years later. Do you know

526
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 2: what I mean?

527
00:29:30,840 --> 00:29:36,240
Speaker 6: Or yeah, no I I and and maybe like I

528
00:29:36,240 --> 00:29:36,960
Speaker 6: would say.

529
00:29:36,720 --> 00:29:41,640
Speaker 2: No, like was there some kind of oath or something

530
00:29:41,720 --> 00:29:43,920
Speaker 2: like that, or was it because you don't.

531
00:29:43,640 --> 00:29:49,640
Speaker 6: Remember well, any CR meeting was like you're under oath.

532
00:29:49,760 --> 00:29:52,360
Speaker 6: Everything that happens in here stays in here. And so

533
00:29:52,520 --> 00:29:56,280
Speaker 6: there was there was a confidentiality, a big confidentiality piece

534
00:29:56,320 --> 00:29:57,640
Speaker 6: to those meetings.

535
00:29:58,240 --> 00:30:00,200
Speaker 2: I get the feeling that Tricia and the most of

536
00:30:00,240 --> 00:30:03,720
Speaker 2: her sisters still feel some obligation to protect the secrets

537
00:30:03,760 --> 00:30:07,200
Speaker 2: and reputation of an organization they joined in their twenties.

538
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,360
Speaker 6: This is I think the hardest thing was to think

539
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:13,719
Speaker 6: of the health of the chapter as a whole, and

540
00:30:13,840 --> 00:30:18,320
Speaker 6: how maintaining the health of the whole thing sometimes hurts

541
00:30:18,360 --> 00:30:19,640
Speaker 6: like one or two people.

542
00:30:22,160 --> 00:30:25,920
Speaker 2: By the end of the call, Rose had become uncharacteristically quiet.

543
00:30:26,480 --> 00:30:29,000
Speaker 2: So after we all say our goodbyes, I check back

544
00:30:29,040 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: in with her about how she felt the call went.

545
00:30:32,280 --> 00:30:34,800
Speaker 1: I think it sounds like she has some memories, but

546
00:30:34,920 --> 00:30:37,720
Speaker 1: she's not sure where she picked them up or who

547
00:30:37,760 --> 00:30:40,960
Speaker 1: she's be betraying if she talked about them. She's always

548
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:43,200
Speaker 1: going to believe and everyone else in that room is

549
00:30:43,200 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: always going to believe that there was something about my

550
00:30:45,720 --> 00:30:51,120
Speaker 1: behavior that was unbecoming to the image of the sorority.

551
00:30:51,840 --> 00:30:54,600
Speaker 1: And I mean she almost called me a cancer. She

552
00:30:54,640 --> 00:30:57,080
Speaker 1: almost said like for the health of the organization, I

553
00:30:57,120 --> 00:31:01,240
Speaker 1: had to be removed. I think Truth is a bad person.

554
00:31:01,360 --> 00:31:03,720
Speaker 1: I really enjoyed reconnecting with her. I think she's a

555
00:31:03,760 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: cool girl, But ultimately what I got from her is

556
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,040
Speaker 1: that she doesn't think kicking me out was a mistake.

557
00:31:12,120 --> 00:31:14,400
Speaker 2: For the next few weeks, I try to find someone,

558
00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:18,320
Speaker 2: anyone who might know why Rose was kicked out. I

559
00:31:18,400 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 2: phone people in the alumni office, in student relations, people

560
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,600
Speaker 2: who weren't even in Rose's sorority, just on the long

561
00:31:25,640 --> 00:31:28,960
Speaker 2: shot they might have heard something. And then one day

562
00:31:29,320 --> 00:31:33,200
Speaker 2: I get a call back from Rick. Rick was Rose's

563
00:31:33,240 --> 00:31:37,280
Speaker 2: college boyfriend. They dated all through her illness, and when

564
00:31:37,320 --> 00:31:40,000
Speaker 2: we eventually spoke, there was something he told me that

565
00:31:40,120 --> 00:31:49,600
Speaker 2: seemed too strange. To be a coincidence. Hey, Hi, how

566
00:31:49,640 --> 00:31:49,880
Speaker 2: are you?

567
00:31:51,040 --> 00:31:55,440
Speaker 1: Oh shit, I have to like drive through the bank.

568
00:31:55,560 --> 00:31:56,760
Speaker 3: Drive through right now, real quick.

569
00:31:57,480 --> 00:32:00,920
Speaker 2: Always a lot going on. After Rose is done with

570
00:32:00,960 --> 00:32:05,840
Speaker 2: her personal banking, I tell her the news. I phoned

571
00:32:05,920 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 2: up Rick.

572
00:32:07,840 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: Okay.

573
00:32:08,880 --> 00:32:10,600
Speaker 2: And one of the things though, that he shared with

574
00:32:10,680 --> 00:32:12,840
Speaker 2: me and I wonder, I mean, I feel like you

575
00:32:12,960 --> 00:32:17,160
Speaker 2: must know this though we've not ever talked about it,

576
00:32:17,200 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: is the fact that he was also kicked out of

577
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:22,920
Speaker 2: his fraternity.

578
00:32:23,280 --> 00:32:28,760
Speaker 4: Holy shit, wait what Yeah?

579
00:32:28,840 --> 00:32:31,800
Speaker 2: Like at the time, he was also kicked out of his.

580
00:32:31,640 --> 00:32:35,760
Speaker 1: Fraternity of k kicked out Rick natering Ouse.

581
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, Rick was kicked out of his fraternity around the

582
00:32:39,920 --> 00:32:42,280
Speaker 2: same time as Rose was kicked out of Alpha Kai.

583
00:32:42,840 --> 00:32:45,480
Speaker 2: Just like Rose, Rick had been the only person kicked

584
00:32:45,480 --> 00:32:48,360
Speaker 2: out in years, and he never got an answer as

585
00:32:48,400 --> 00:32:52,000
Speaker 2: to why. But unlike Rose, Rick has a theory about it,

586
00:32:52,400 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 2: one that explains why both of them got kicked out.

587
00:32:56,400 --> 00:32:58,880
Speaker 2: I suggest to Rose that maybe it'd be a good

588
00:32:58,880 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 2: idea for her and Rick to talk.

589
00:33:01,080 --> 00:33:02,320
Speaker 1: Yeah, we should make that happen.

590
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,760
Speaker 5: Hey, Jonathan, how are you good?

591
00:33:08,400 --> 00:33:11,560
Speaker 2: I've got Rose here on the other line. Can you

592
00:33:11,560 --> 00:33:12,320
Speaker 2: guys hear each other?

593
00:33:13,800 --> 00:33:16,600
Speaker 5: Hi, I can hear Rick, Hey, how are you?

594
00:33:17,240 --> 00:33:20,200
Speaker 2: Rick's now a contractor. When I reach him, he's sitting

595
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:24,200
Speaker 2: in his idling truck at a construction site. Not long

596
00:33:24,240 --> 00:33:27,560
Speaker 2: after their breakup, Rose graduated and moved out of Florida.

597
00:33:28,320 --> 00:33:30,800
Speaker 2: The two haven't spoken in years, and this is the

598
00:33:30,800 --> 00:33:34,080
Speaker 2: first time they've talked about getting kicked out. Right away,

599
00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 2: they start trading stories.

600
00:33:36,000 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 8: Mine was just a phone call, and it was a

601
00:33:40,240 --> 00:33:43,120
Speaker 8: phone call from one of our brothers that was founding

602
00:33:43,160 --> 00:33:45,560
Speaker 8: father Chaz, and just basically said, hey, you're.

603
00:33:47,240 --> 00:33:47,920
Speaker 5: You're done here.

604
00:33:48,680 --> 00:33:52,000
Speaker 1: That is so insane. You were like the responsible one.

605
00:33:52,040 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: That's so insane. Oh my god, I don't know.

606
00:33:55,480 --> 00:33:57,680
Speaker 2: Before they get to Rick's theory, the two of them

607
00:33:57,680 --> 00:34:01,120
Speaker 2: talk about old times. Eventually why their way back to

608
00:34:01,200 --> 00:34:04,200
Speaker 2: the days when they were a couple. When Rose was

609
00:34:04,200 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 2: diagnosed with cancer, Rick actually moved her into his apartment.

610
00:34:08,080 --> 00:34:11,520
Speaker 2: He drove her to doctor's appointments, cooked her meals. After

611
00:34:11,560 --> 00:34:14,720
Speaker 2: the pink ribbons had been sold and the fundraising had ended,

612
00:34:15,120 --> 00:34:17,360
Speaker 2: Rick was the one waiting at home to look after

613
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:21,080
Speaker 2: her at her most sick and vulnerable. Do you remember

614
00:34:21,200 --> 00:34:23,640
Speaker 2: being were you scared at any point?

615
00:34:23,760 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 6: Rick?

616
00:34:24,000 --> 00:34:26,359
Speaker 2: Like? Do you fear that? Like Rose was gonna die

617
00:34:26,600 --> 00:34:27,040
Speaker 2: of course.

618
00:34:27,120 --> 00:34:29,719
Speaker 8: I mean, you hear that the word cancer, and that's

619
00:34:29,760 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 8: obviously one of the things that you're going to think about.

620
00:34:32,239 --> 00:34:33,480
Speaker 5: You know, we had been dating.

621
00:34:33,239 --> 00:34:36,240
Speaker 8: For a little bit, but it wasn't a great length

622
00:34:36,239 --> 00:34:39,279
Speaker 8: of time before this even happened. So you know, you

623
00:34:39,400 --> 00:34:41,560
Speaker 8: take those feelings that you have for somebody and I mean,

624
00:34:41,560 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 8: you're still developing a relationship and then all of a

625
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,319
Speaker 8: sudden it go through and think, hey, you know you

626
00:34:46,320 --> 00:34:46,880
Speaker 8: have cancer.

627
00:34:47,400 --> 00:34:49,560
Speaker 5: So yeah, I mean the entire process is terrifying.

628
00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:53,440
Speaker 3: It's terrifying.

629
00:34:53,480 --> 00:34:56,359
Speaker 1: And I was like bald and my skin was turning gray,

630
00:34:56,560 --> 00:34:59,440
Speaker 1: and like there he was like going to functions with

631
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:00,879
Speaker 1: me and being my boyfriend.

632
00:35:01,080 --> 00:35:03,880
Speaker 3: And I remember one time, I'm in the middle of chemo.

633
00:35:04,080 --> 00:35:07,400
Speaker 1: I am bald, I'm like not doing well, and we

634
00:35:07,480 --> 00:35:09,839
Speaker 1: go down to Daytona to watch the NASCAR event because

635
00:35:09,840 --> 00:35:10,880
Speaker 1: it's right around my birthday.

636
00:35:10,880 --> 00:35:11,879
Speaker 3: It's the beginning of July.

637
00:35:12,719 --> 00:35:15,719
Speaker 1: And then this freak thunderstorm comes out of nowhere and

638
00:35:15,760 --> 00:35:17,600
Speaker 1: the temperature dropped like.

639
00:35:17,880 --> 00:35:20,120
Speaker 3: A crazy amount. It downpours.

640
00:35:20,160 --> 00:35:24,000
Speaker 1: We get completely soaked, and now there's like chemo rose

641
00:35:24,200 --> 00:35:26,799
Speaker 1: is freezing. I have no immune system. I'm just like

642
00:35:26,880 --> 00:35:29,520
Speaker 1: teeth chattering, and so Rick took me over to the

643
00:35:29,600 --> 00:35:32,560
Speaker 1: vendor area and he bought me this like head to

644
00:35:32,560 --> 00:35:35,600
Speaker 1: toe windbreaker outfit of Darryl Earnhardt juice.

645
00:35:38,120 --> 00:35:38,920
Speaker 3: Do you remember that?

646
00:35:41,400 --> 00:35:44,400
Speaker 5: I do? You look like you pretty much belong with

647
00:35:44,400 --> 00:35:44,919
Speaker 5: that van base.

648
00:35:45,200 --> 00:35:47,040
Speaker 1: I looked like a twelve year old boy who was

649
00:35:47,080 --> 00:35:50,120
Speaker 1: sitting in the bleachers with like his older brother's cool friends.

650
00:35:55,960 --> 00:35:58,399
Speaker 2: In spite of all they'd been through. Pretty quickly, after

651
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,359
Speaker 2: her cancer went into remission, Rose broke up with Rick,

652
00:36:01,960 --> 00:36:04,520
Speaker 2: and although Rick was sad, he understood it.

653
00:36:05,920 --> 00:36:11,239
Speaker 8: Rose needed to have some time to be able to

654
00:36:12,120 --> 00:36:15,120
Speaker 8: go and experience life.

655
00:36:15,440 --> 00:36:19,120
Speaker 5: And so when that took place, her and I split,

656
00:36:19,160 --> 00:36:19,319
Speaker 5: and a.

657
00:36:19,280 --> 00:36:20,680
Speaker 8: Lot of people are like, oh, well, you know you

658
00:36:20,719 --> 00:36:23,840
Speaker 8: split because oh, she's in remission and it needs to

659
00:36:23,880 --> 00:36:24,960
Speaker 8: go and kind of live her life.

660
00:36:25,000 --> 00:36:27,400
Speaker 5: Well that's kind of a shit way of doing it,

661
00:36:27,400 --> 00:36:30,239
Speaker 5: because I mean, hell, didn't you take care of her? Yeah?

662
00:36:30,280 --> 00:36:31,560
Speaker 5: But I mean she's got it, She's got to figure

663
00:36:31,560 --> 00:36:32,080
Speaker 5: herself out.

664
00:36:32,880 --> 00:36:37,800
Speaker 8: We both got it, but we got it, and nobody

665
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,560
Speaker 8: else really understood.

666
00:36:49,680 --> 00:36:53,120
Speaker 2: Which brings us to Rick's theory. Rick says that after

667
00:36:53,160 --> 00:36:56,720
Speaker 2: he and Rose broke up, people took sides. Rick's friends

668
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,520
Speaker 2: were mad at Rose, and Rose's friends were mad at Rick,

669
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,440
Speaker 2: and each side started rumors about the other, and in

670
00:37:03,520 --> 00:37:06,800
Speaker 2: that fog of rumors, both of their good names were ruined.

671
00:37:07,480 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 2: It was like the breakup version of the Gift of

672
00:37:09,640 --> 00:37:13,600
Speaker 2: the Magi. And as they talk, something in Rick's theory

673
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:15,080
Speaker 2: seems to click for Rose.

674
00:37:15,640 --> 00:37:19,840
Speaker 1: Absolutely, that theory has never crossed my mind, Like I

675
00:37:19,880 --> 00:37:23,360
Speaker 1: am sure someone who felt close to Rick and thought

676
00:37:23,360 --> 00:37:26,160
Speaker 1: that maybe I had done him wrong or something could

677
00:37:26,200 --> 00:37:28,760
Speaker 1: have gotten blown out of proportion by people who felt

678
00:37:28,800 --> 00:37:31,920
Speaker 1: like defensive or protective on either side of that equation.

679
00:37:32,719 --> 00:37:37,200
Speaker 8: Absolutely, I mean I remember, you know, people coming up

680
00:37:37,239 --> 00:37:39,799
Speaker 8: to me that were, I mean not even friends of mine,

681
00:37:40,400 --> 00:37:43,360
Speaker 8: going oh hey, I heard you and Rose split up,

682
00:37:43,360 --> 00:37:45,320
Speaker 8: and I heard she was cheating on you for two years.

683
00:37:45,640 --> 00:37:47,480
Speaker 8: Her was cheating on you for you know, the two

684
00:37:47,480 --> 00:37:50,600
Speaker 8: months before y'all split with another guy from PI Cap

685
00:37:52,080 --> 00:37:57,919
Speaker 8: You remember Trip. Oh yeah, he was the one kick

686
00:37:57,960 --> 00:37:59,200
Speaker 8: comes by my apartment one time.

687
00:37:59,239 --> 00:38:01,040
Speaker 5: He's like, oh man, I walked into her apartment. She

688
00:38:01,160 --> 00:38:05,440
Speaker 5: was having sex with some dude on the stairs, on.

689
00:38:05,480 --> 00:38:10,239
Speaker 2: The stairs, on the stairs. These rumors confirmed what a

690
00:38:10,280 --> 00:38:12,959
Speaker 2: lot of Rose's sorority sisters were beginning to think about

691
00:38:13,000 --> 00:38:15,880
Speaker 2: her after her cancer went into remission, that she was

692
00:38:15,920 --> 00:38:19,040
Speaker 2: too wild, too much of a partier. But how do

693
00:38:19,080 --> 00:38:22,640
Speaker 2: you kick out a poor, innocent cancer survivor from your sorority.

694
00:38:23,280 --> 00:38:26,000
Speaker 2: It's a lot easier if she's not so poor and innocent,

695
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:29,359
Speaker 2: if she betrayed the loving boyfriend who saw her through

696
00:38:29,360 --> 00:38:32,840
Speaker 2: her illness. These rumors must have been just what the

697
00:38:32,840 --> 00:38:36,040
Speaker 2: sorority had been waiting for. It gave them the moral

698
00:38:36,120 --> 00:38:39,920
Speaker 2: high ground to get rid of her. So while Rose's

699
00:38:39,960 --> 00:38:43,560
Speaker 2: sorority sisters thought her cancer recovery had changed her, Rick

700
00:38:43,600 --> 00:38:46,840
Speaker 2: saw the experience as having changed her back to the

701
00:38:46,880 --> 00:38:49,279
Speaker 2: person she'd been before joining Alpha Kai.

702
00:38:49,719 --> 00:38:52,680
Speaker 8: When she started getting into Alpha Kai, I'm like, what,

703
00:38:53,480 --> 00:38:57,160
Speaker 8: thank who? Really you're gonna You're gonna go that route

704
00:38:57,440 --> 00:38:59,080
Speaker 8: because that's that's not her.

705
00:39:08,239 --> 00:39:08,520
Speaker 4: Rose.

706
00:39:08,719 --> 00:39:09,759
Speaker 2: Are you a Beatles fan?

707
00:39:11,080 --> 00:39:11,360
Speaker 3: Yes?

708
00:39:13,000 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 2: Rose had never heard the story of Pete Best, So

709
00:39:15,680 --> 00:39:18,000
Speaker 2: I explain how he was kicked out of the Beatles.

710
00:39:18,480 --> 00:39:20,560
Speaker 2: I tell her about all the different theories I'd heard

711
00:39:20,640 --> 00:39:23,560
Speaker 2: for why he was kicked out, the hair, the style.

712
00:39:24,120 --> 00:39:26,520
Speaker 2: But how lately, looking at old photos of the band

713
00:39:26,760 --> 00:39:30,000
Speaker 2: with Pete Best hunched in the background, it all seems

714
00:39:30,040 --> 00:39:34,040
Speaker 2: a lot simpler when you look at the old photographs

715
00:39:34,080 --> 00:39:36,880
Speaker 2: of those guys of the Beatles with Pete Best altogether,

716
00:39:38,480 --> 00:39:41,360
Speaker 2: like he just doesn't look like a Beatle, you know,

717
00:39:43,239 --> 00:39:46,160
Speaker 2: And in the final analysis, it's sort of like, why

718
00:39:46,239 --> 00:39:48,080
Speaker 2: was he kicked out of the Beatles just because he

719
00:39:48,239 --> 00:39:49,800
Speaker 2: just kind of didn't seem like a Beatle?

720
00:39:52,680 --> 00:39:55,200
Speaker 1: I get the analogy you're driving at here, and I

721
00:39:55,239 --> 00:39:58,279
Speaker 1: think you're right, Like, ultimately, I just wasn't an alpha kai.

722
00:39:58,760 --> 00:40:02,799
Speaker 1: I just wasn't like them. And I can't necessarily put

723
00:40:02,840 --> 00:40:05,880
Speaker 1: into words or a definition what made them similar and

724
00:40:05,960 --> 00:40:08,600
Speaker 1: made me different, But I just know that I was different.

725
00:40:10,320 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 2: Roads Have you ever considered, like, had you not gotten cancer,

726
00:40:15,520 --> 00:40:17,840
Speaker 2: that maybe they would have forced you out earlier?

727
00:40:19,120 --> 00:40:19,400
Speaker 1: God?

728
00:40:19,520 --> 00:40:20,040
Speaker 6: Probably.

729
00:40:27,000 --> 00:40:28,640
Speaker 1: I think I was doing a really good job of

730
00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:31,359
Speaker 1: trying to assimilate early on, and I was like, oh,

731
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:34,560
Speaker 1: my best behavior, but I think that like the real

732
00:40:34,680 --> 00:40:37,719
Speaker 1: me just kept like cracking out, and then once once

733
00:40:38,080 --> 00:40:40,680
Speaker 1: after going through the whole cancer thing, then it's like, oh,

734
00:40:40,840 --> 00:40:41,640
Speaker 1: let's not put.

735
00:40:41,480 --> 00:40:42,360
Speaker 3: On errs anymore.

736
00:40:42,480 --> 00:40:44,320
Speaker 1: Like I am who I am, and I was trying

737
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,200
Speaker 1: really hard to like cram myself into that mold and

738
00:40:47,239 --> 00:40:51,120
Speaker 1: it just wasn't fitting, like it just wasn't working.

739
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,839
Speaker 2: Yeah, Like I think, like, in having spoken to quite

740
00:40:55,880 --> 00:41:00,280
Speaker 2: a few of your old sorority sisters, I mean none

741
00:41:00,320 --> 00:41:03,400
Speaker 2: of them sound like you. No, and I mean that

742
00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,040
Speaker 2: I mean that in a nice way.

743
00:41:05,200 --> 00:41:06,440
Speaker 3: No, I'm totally down with that.

744
00:41:06,800 --> 00:41:09,080
Speaker 1: Like I'm a fucking maniac and that's who I am,

745
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:11,719
Speaker 1: and I've come to fully embrace that right now, Like

746
00:41:12,880 --> 00:41:14,279
Speaker 1: I'm really cool with who I am.

747
00:41:15,200 --> 00:41:19,040
Speaker 2: Well you know, I'm uh, I'm cool with who you are. Also,

748
00:41:19,800 --> 00:41:27,280
Speaker 2: thank you. Years after getting kicked out of the Beatles,

749
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: Pete Best said he was still hopeful that maybe one

750
00:41:30,160 --> 00:41:33,279
Speaker 2: day he'd find out why. Maybe I'll run into Paul,

751
00:41:33,320 --> 00:41:37,120
Speaker 2: he said, and we can talk about it. If decades

752
00:41:37,120 --> 00:41:40,000
Speaker 2: from now, Rose should run into one of her sorority sisters,

753
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,279
Speaker 2: I hope you won't need to talk about anything other

754
00:41:42,320 --> 00:41:45,719
Speaker 2: than the weather or what she's making for supper, And

755
00:41:45,760 --> 00:41:48,720
Speaker 2: then she could say or goodbyes and get back to chopping,

756
00:41:49,080 --> 00:41:53,160
Speaker 2: banking and basically being the maniac that she is.

757
00:42:26,239 --> 00:42:35,759
Speaker 1: Now that the fernentures returning to its goodwill home, now

758
00:42:35,840 --> 00:42:40,600
Speaker 1: that the last month's rent is scheming with the damage

759
00:42:40,640 --> 00:42:47,120
Speaker 1: to poss take this moment to deserve. If we met

760
00:42:47,200 --> 00:42:49,839
Speaker 1: him we tried.

761
00:42:50,719 --> 00:42:52,960
Speaker 2: But felt around for far too.

762
00:42:55,280 --> 00:42:58,160
Speaker 1: From Things that Accidentally.

763
00:42:57,680 --> 00:43:05,239
Speaker 2: Tal Heavyweight is hosted and produced by me Jonathan Goldstein

764
00:43:05,440 --> 00:43:08,920
Speaker 2: along with Khalila Holt. The senior producer is Caitlin Roberts.

765
00:43:09,400 --> 00:43:12,960
Speaker 2: Editing by Jorge just, Alex Bloomberg and Wendy Door. Special

766
00:43:13,000 --> 00:43:17,719
Speaker 2: thanks to Emily Condon, Stevie Lane, and Jackie Cohen. The

767
00:43:17,760 --> 00:43:21,160
Speaker 2: show was mixed by Kate Bolinsky, music by Christine Fellows

768
00:43:21,200 --> 00:43:24,320
Speaker 2: and John K. Sampson. Additional music credits for this episode

769
00:43:24,360 --> 00:43:28,360
Speaker 2: can be found on our website, gimletmedia dot com slash Heavyweight.

770
00:43:28,920 --> 00:43:31,120
Speaker 2: Our theme song is by The Weaker Thans courtesy of

771
00:43:31,200 --> 00:43:34,720
Speaker 2: Epitaph Records, and our ad music is by Hailey Shaw.

772
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:38,600
Speaker 2: Follow us on Twitter at Heavyweight or email us at

773
00:43:38,640 --> 00:43:42,080
Speaker 2: Heavyweight at gimletmedia dot com. We'll have a new episode

774
00:43:42,480 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 2: next week by Palagram. Why a Blazer we repainted? Wh