1 00:00:01,200 --> 00:00:05,440 Speaker 1: When the world is a disaster, people want nostalgia, even 2 00:00:05,480 --> 00:00:09,680 Speaker 1: if it's a false nostalgia. And this nostalgia for a 3 00:00:09,720 --> 00:00:14,000 Speaker 1: quote unquote better time when women were quote unquote traditional 4 00:00:14,600 --> 00:00:22,120 Speaker 1: is really obscenely misplaced. There are no girls on the Internet. 5 00:00:22,160 --> 00:00:24,640 Speaker 1: As a production of My Heart Radio and Unboss Creative, 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:31,080 Speaker 1: I'm bridget tout and this is there are no girls 7 00:00:31,120 --> 00:00:36,240 Speaker 1: on the internet. If you're a woman, listen out, because 8 00:00:36,320 --> 00:00:39,120 Speaker 1: I need to tell you something kind of important. It 9 00:00:39,200 --> 00:00:44,239 Speaker 1: turns out we have all been tricked. Oh. Yes, feminism 10 00:00:44,320 --> 00:00:46,559 Speaker 1: was alive, and it was just a scam to get 11 00:00:46,640 --> 00:00:49,040 Speaker 1: us working outside of the home so we could provide 12 00:00:49,080 --> 00:00:52,040 Speaker 1: more taxable income to the government. It turns out that 13 00:00:52,080 --> 00:00:54,440 Speaker 1: we were much better off back in the fifties as 14 00:00:54,480 --> 00:00:58,120 Speaker 1: traditional housewives. Think about it, we didn't have to work 15 00:00:58,160 --> 00:01:00,560 Speaker 1: outside of the home, and because's been of our time 16 00:01:00,720 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: raising our kids and running a household, and we were 17 00:01:03,520 --> 00:01:06,680 Speaker 1: so much happier back then too. You know, back when 18 00:01:06,720 --> 00:01:10,080 Speaker 1: we as women couldn't known property, couldn't vote, couldn't take 19 00:01:10,080 --> 00:01:12,520 Speaker 1: out a credit card. Oh, and it was also legal 20 00:01:12,560 --> 00:01:15,399 Speaker 1: for our spouses to rape us. So if you spend 21 00:01:15,440 --> 00:01:18,280 Speaker 1: any time at all on TikTok, you're probably seeing an 22 00:01:18,280 --> 00:01:21,319 Speaker 1: influx of this kind of content, which is commonly called 23 00:01:21,560 --> 00:01:25,400 Speaker 1: trad wife content short for a traditional wife, that posits 24 00:01:25,440 --> 00:01:28,480 Speaker 1: that women weren't just happier, but also we were more 25 00:01:28,520 --> 00:01:31,560 Speaker 1: empowered when we stayed at home and embraced more traditional 26 00:01:31,600 --> 00:01:34,640 Speaker 1: gendered roles in the household. And I believe that this 27 00:01:34,720 --> 00:01:38,160 Speaker 1: is not a coincidence against the backdrop of some pretty 28 00:01:38,160 --> 00:01:42,560 Speaker 1: scary and heavy political and social happenings, things like economic instability, 29 00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:47,080 Speaker 1: impending climate crisis, which always disproportionately harms women more, the 30 00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,360 Speaker 1: gutting of Roe versus Wade, and the loss of the 31 00:01:49,440 --> 00:01:52,200 Speaker 1: right to control our own bodies. I think content like 32 00:01:52,320 --> 00:01:56,520 Speaker 1: this does two things. One, it responds to and exploits 33 00:01:56,520 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 1: the understandable fear and anxiety that a lot of women 34 00:01:59,360 --> 00:02:02,680 Speaker 1: are feeling, particularly in the absence of any kind of 35 00:02:02,680 --> 00:02:06,000 Speaker 1: a meaningful institutional support. And I also think it's kind 36 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,120 Speaker 1: of meant to soothe us in a way. You know, 37 00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:11,240 Speaker 1: don't be too angry, ladies, you were much better off 38 00:02:11,280 --> 00:02:15,120 Speaker 1: without rights anyway. But all of this content is just 39 00:02:15,200 --> 00:02:18,680 Speaker 1: a depiction of a fantasy life that never even really existed, 40 00:02:19,320 --> 00:02:22,760 Speaker 1: And it's yet another way that social media is trying 41 00:02:22,800 --> 00:02:26,640 Speaker 1: to sell women on a dangerous lie. I'm Joe Piazza 42 00:02:26,960 --> 00:02:31,440 Speaker 1: and I'm an author, journalist, and podcaster, most recently the 43 00:02:31,480 --> 00:02:35,560 Speaker 1: host of the podcast called Under the Influence. On Joe's 44 00:02:35,600 --> 00:02:39,040 Speaker 1: great podcast Under the Influence, she chronicles how the business 45 00:02:39,040 --> 00:02:42,359 Speaker 1: and culture of influencing social media and the Internet has 46 00:02:42,400 --> 00:02:45,600 Speaker 1: impacted women and right now, a lot of what she's 47 00:02:45,600 --> 00:02:50,320 Speaker 1: seeing includes traad wife content. So your podcast is amazing, 48 00:02:50,520 --> 00:02:52,040 Speaker 1: and that was one of the reasons why I was 49 00:02:52,080 --> 00:02:54,360 Speaker 1: so excited to talk to you today, because you know, 50 00:02:54,440 --> 00:02:57,200 Speaker 1: I've been scrolling social media a lot lately and I 51 00:02:57,280 --> 00:03:00,480 Speaker 1: can't seem to get away from this, Like, I guess, 52 00:03:00,680 --> 00:03:04,600 Speaker 1: trad wife content. This content made by women, but it's 53 00:03:04,600 --> 00:03:07,840 Speaker 1: sort of giving us this idea that being a traditional, 54 00:03:07,880 --> 00:03:10,040 Speaker 1: stay at home wife and mother is the path to 55 00:03:10,360 --> 00:03:13,400 Speaker 1: power and happiness for women. Have you seen this content 56 00:03:13,440 --> 00:03:15,920 Speaker 1: on your feed? Yeah? I'm not only have I seen 57 00:03:15,960 --> 00:03:19,560 Speaker 1: this content on my feed, but it has been dominating 58 00:03:20,200 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: my feed for some reason. I don't know. Maybe sometimes 59 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:27,360 Speaker 1: I'm like Instagram knows I'm pregnant and wants to force 60 00:03:27,480 --> 00:03:31,040 Speaker 1: me to stay home in the kitchen, barefoot and pregnant forever. 61 00:03:32,639 --> 00:03:35,080 Speaker 1: And its you'd be happier if that's how you lived 62 00:03:35,120 --> 00:03:38,080 Speaker 1: your life, and they think I'd be happier, and you know, 63 00:03:38,240 --> 00:03:41,720 Speaker 1: so my gut reaction to this is, and it's the 64 00:03:41,760 --> 00:03:43,600 Speaker 1: same as it is with most things. If you want 65 00:03:43,640 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 1: to stay home and be a quote unquote traditional wife 66 00:03:48,720 --> 00:03:51,920 Speaker 1: and you know, take on all of the trappings of 67 00:03:52,000 --> 00:03:56,640 Speaker 1: domesticity that we're popularized by mass media in the nineteen fifties, 68 00:03:56,800 --> 00:04:00,240 Speaker 1: and this is what you really want. Fucking awesome, You 69 00:04:00,360 --> 00:04:03,880 Speaker 1: do it, you do you. And my feminism is mostly 70 00:04:03,920 --> 00:04:06,920 Speaker 1: centered on women choosing what makes them happy. I do 71 00:04:07,040 --> 00:04:09,480 Speaker 1: not necessarily think that that this is the path to 72 00:04:09,720 --> 00:04:17,440 Speaker 1: empowerment for the majority of women, but I do think 73 00:04:17,520 --> 00:04:20,440 Speaker 1: that this is becoming so popular. And we know that 74 00:04:20,480 --> 00:04:25,560 Speaker 1: Instagram surfaces things that they think will soothe people's adult 75 00:04:26,120 --> 00:04:29,320 Speaker 1: brains as they make them more adult because the world 76 00:04:29,400 --> 00:04:31,960 Speaker 1: is kind of a disaster right now, and when the 77 00:04:31,960 --> 00:04:36,280 Speaker 1: world is a disaster, people want nostalgia, even if it's 78 00:04:36,279 --> 00:04:40,960 Speaker 1: a false nostalgia. And this nostalgia for a quote unquote 79 00:04:40,960 --> 00:04:47,440 Speaker 1: better time when women were quote traditional is really obscenely misplaced. Yeah, 80 00:04:47,440 --> 00:04:51,440 Speaker 1: it almost seems like it is painting a fantasy portrait 81 00:04:51,480 --> 00:04:55,680 Speaker 1: of a time that did not exist, because even for 82 00:04:55,800 --> 00:04:59,320 Speaker 1: white women back in the day, I'm not necessarily quick 83 00:04:59,360 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 1: to say that they a, we're so happy, you know, 84 00:05:02,200 --> 00:05:04,360 Speaker 1: it was like legal for your spouse to rape you. 85 00:05:04,360 --> 00:05:07,039 Speaker 1: You couldn't own property, You couldn't you know, take like 86 00:05:07,360 --> 00:05:09,440 Speaker 1: have your own money, like I don't. You couldn't have 87 00:05:09,480 --> 00:05:11,640 Speaker 1: ocurred it. You could have a credit, right, And yeah, 88 00:05:11,680 --> 00:05:13,520 Speaker 1: so I mean it's most it's lest be honest, it's 89 00:05:13,520 --> 00:05:16,640 Speaker 1: mostly can't having a credit. It's mostly not having a 90 00:05:16,640 --> 00:05:19,240 Speaker 1: credit card and rape marital rate. Right. And so I 91 00:05:19,440 --> 00:05:22,320 Speaker 1: think it like it harkens back in a way that 92 00:05:22,320 --> 00:05:26,960 Speaker 1: that paints these times as like really rosy. And yeah, 93 00:05:26,960 --> 00:05:28,760 Speaker 1: it's like it's like a fantasy world that never even 94 00:05:28,760 --> 00:05:32,839 Speaker 1: existed even during that time, exactly exactly, and not to 95 00:05:32,880 --> 00:05:36,680 Speaker 1: mention the fact that it absolutely a hundred percent never 96 00:05:36,760 --> 00:05:40,320 Speaker 1: even existed in media for black women and women of 97 00:05:40,360 --> 00:05:44,320 Speaker 1: lower economic status is and immigrants women. So yeah, it's 98 00:05:44,360 --> 00:05:48,120 Speaker 1: a completely completely false nostalgia. And I think you hit 99 00:05:48,120 --> 00:05:50,839 Speaker 1: on something interesting, which is that these TikTok's, especially that 100 00:05:50,880 --> 00:05:53,560 Speaker 1: I see that really seemed to be trying to convince 101 00:05:53,600 --> 00:05:56,080 Speaker 1: women that we've been lied to into thinking that having 102 00:05:56,080 --> 00:05:58,680 Speaker 1: a job and you know, working outside of the home 103 00:05:58,760 --> 00:06:02,720 Speaker 1: is empowering. It really. For for that narrative to work, 104 00:06:02,760 --> 00:06:05,440 Speaker 1: you basically have to ignore non white women. You have 105 00:06:05,480 --> 00:06:07,719 Speaker 1: to basically say, like, I'm a white woman talking to 106 00:06:07,760 --> 00:06:10,440 Speaker 1: other white women in a world where people who are 107 00:06:10,480 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 1: not white, if, if they exist, we're not speaking to them, 108 00:06:14,520 --> 00:06:17,320 Speaker 1: We're not thinking about their experiences, We're not interrogating that 109 00:06:17,360 --> 00:06:22,040 Speaker 1: at all. No, No, exactly, the whole idea of a 110 00:06:22,040 --> 00:06:24,560 Speaker 1: happy woman who enjoyed an idyllic life in the home, 111 00:06:24,800 --> 00:06:27,159 Speaker 1: tending to her family while her husband did the wage 112 00:06:27,160 --> 00:06:31,360 Speaker 1: earning labor is just kind of a fantasy. Obviously, it 113 00:06:31,520 --> 00:06:34,479 Speaker 1: certainly did not exist for non white women, and it's 114 00:06:34,560 --> 00:06:36,960 Speaker 1: kind of didn't even really ever exist for white women either, 115 00:06:37,839 --> 00:06:40,599 Speaker 1: or not the way we've been led to believe anyway. 116 00:06:40,680 --> 00:06:44,240 Speaker 1: In fact, Joe says, the entire happy housewife thing was 117 00:06:44,279 --> 00:06:47,839 Speaker 1: a creation presented by a few specific pieces of mass 118 00:06:47,880 --> 00:06:50,480 Speaker 1: media that made its way into the culture and just 119 00:06:50,560 --> 00:06:54,640 Speaker 1: kind of stuck. I mean, the whole trad wife aesthetic 120 00:06:55,160 --> 00:06:59,200 Speaker 1: really does come from a very narrow sliver of nineteen 121 00:06:59,200 --> 00:07:04,000 Speaker 1: fifties sitcom. And we are talking June Cleaver, We're talking 122 00:07:04,120 --> 00:07:06,919 Speaker 1: daddy father knows best, Daddy nes Best. I mean the 123 00:07:06,920 --> 00:07:10,160 Speaker 1: shows we saw in Nick Knight as kids, really and 124 00:07:10,200 --> 00:07:14,720 Speaker 1: it was mass media telling us that this is what 125 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:16,960 Speaker 1: the world looked like. But it didn't look like that 126 00:07:17,040 --> 00:07:20,480 Speaker 1: for the majority of white women. It never looked like 127 00:07:20,520 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: that for black women, women of a lower economic status, 128 00:07:24,280 --> 00:07:29,920 Speaker 1: immigrant women, And I think, look, we're desperate, we are 129 00:07:30,000 --> 00:07:32,400 Speaker 1: desperate to cling to something because the world isn't working 130 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:35,679 Speaker 1: right now. I don't think that the concept of women 131 00:07:35,720 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: working outside the home. I think work has failed all 132 00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:42,120 Speaker 1: of us, not just women. Work has failed to empower 133 00:07:42,760 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 1: us as a human race right now. And so there 134 00:07:46,600 --> 00:07:49,640 Speaker 1: is this small set of people saying, well, what if 135 00:07:49,640 --> 00:07:51,440 Speaker 1: you didn't have to work? Look at these women who 136 00:07:51,440 --> 00:07:53,480 Speaker 1: didn't have to work, These like three women who didn't 137 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:57,080 Speaker 1: have to work in nine. Don't they look so happy 138 00:07:57,200 --> 00:08:00,600 Speaker 1: in their Gengham dresses with their beach aimes that they 139 00:08:00,640 --> 00:08:04,240 Speaker 1: never could have really gotten in nine? They do that 140 00:08:04,280 --> 00:08:08,400 Speaker 1: ship with the Dyson hand one. Yeah, I love your 141 00:08:08,400 --> 00:08:11,200 Speaker 1: point that or even if you're thinking about math media 142 00:08:11,280 --> 00:08:14,360 Speaker 1: from the fifties, the trad wife stuff from that was 143 00:08:14,400 --> 00:08:17,640 Speaker 1: shown there. It's only a small like subsection of shows 144 00:08:17,680 --> 00:08:20,120 Speaker 1: like Lucy all Ball even she wanted to be on 145 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:22,960 Speaker 1: the show in it or being in Ricky and um 146 00:08:23,760 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: Dasis show back in the day, so like they're not 147 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:29,920 Speaker 1: even demonstrating that, like it was a dominant, you know, 148 00:08:30,080 --> 00:08:35,040 Speaker 1: a dominant culture. Never Lucy wanted to work. Lucy was messy, 149 00:08:35,559 --> 00:08:38,040 Speaker 1: Lucy was I mean, I love Lucy and I just 150 00:08:38,080 --> 00:08:42,480 Speaker 1: said I love Lucy um because she was delightfully fucked 151 00:08:42,559 --> 00:08:45,400 Speaker 1: up in so many ways, and she kind of bucked 152 00:08:45,440 --> 00:08:48,480 Speaker 1: the trend of the trad wife that was on TV 153 00:08:48,640 --> 00:08:50,520 Speaker 1: in so many ways. You don't see that if you 154 00:08:50,640 --> 00:08:52,960 Speaker 1: just like, you know, glanced at one episode of the show, 155 00:08:52,960 --> 00:08:54,480 Speaker 1: but she really did. And Lucy all Ball in real 156 00:08:54,480 --> 00:08:57,200 Speaker 1: life is a goddamn baller. She owned her brand, she 157 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:00,559 Speaker 1: owned her ship, she owned her show, so that she 158 00:09:00,720 --> 00:09:03,560 Speaker 1: she was not a trad wife in any way, shape 159 00:09:03,640 --> 00:09:07,760 Speaker 1: or form. But just the fact that we keep getting 160 00:09:07,840 --> 00:09:11,240 Speaker 1: served this on Instagram and this is not what I 161 00:09:11,280 --> 00:09:14,280 Speaker 1: want to be seeing right now. I want to be 162 00:09:14,320 --> 00:09:19,720 Speaker 1: seeing more knaptresses and calf hands, and frankly, I'm just 163 00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:22,120 Speaker 1: in the mid for some fucking calf memes I don't 164 00:09:22,120 --> 00:09:29,240 Speaker 1: want to see in trade. Let's take a quick break 165 00:09:39,679 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: at her back. To be clear, there is absolutely nothing 166 00:09:44,880 --> 00:09:48,080 Speaker 1: wrong with not working outside of the home or finding 167 00:09:48,200 --> 00:09:51,040 Speaker 1: enjoyment in the domestic. But what can be scary are 168 00:09:51,080 --> 00:09:54,600 Speaker 1: the ways that trad wife content can present a palatable 169 00:09:54,640 --> 00:09:59,240 Speaker 1: pipeline for women to be led into extremist ideology. Yeah, 170 00:09:59,280 --> 00:10:01,000 Speaker 1: and I think that you make a good point about 171 00:10:01,000 --> 00:10:04,160 Speaker 1: the way that it's it's definitely being like surfaced right 172 00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:07,600 Speaker 1: now for whatever reason. And I think that's what I 173 00:10:07,720 --> 00:10:11,280 Speaker 1: think can be kind of almost harmful, right, Like trad 174 00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:14,520 Speaker 1: life stuff for me is like a little annoying, a 175 00:10:14,520 --> 00:10:16,920 Speaker 1: little I think it a little bit smug, but I 176 00:10:17,040 --> 00:10:19,480 Speaker 1: know that a lot of that content can really be 177 00:10:19,520 --> 00:10:22,440 Speaker 1: a pipeline into like more extremist thinking. You know, you 178 00:10:22,480 --> 00:10:25,120 Speaker 1: are saying like, oh, well, the world was much better 179 00:10:25,520 --> 00:10:29,040 Speaker 1: in the fifties and the forties, when you know people 180 00:10:29,080 --> 00:10:31,720 Speaker 1: of color quote knew their place and women knew their place. 181 00:10:31,960 --> 00:10:34,000 Speaker 1: It's like a hop, skip and a jump away from 182 00:10:34,040 --> 00:10:40,959 Speaker 1: some pretty nasty extremist you know, ideology. I wouldn't even 183 00:10:40,960 --> 00:10:42,440 Speaker 1: say it's a hop, skip and a jump. That's giving 184 00:10:42,440 --> 00:10:44,480 Speaker 1: it too much credit. That's saying that it would it 185 00:10:44,480 --> 00:10:46,520 Speaker 1: would take us three steps to get there. And I 186 00:10:46,600 --> 00:10:49,840 Speaker 1: think we're kind of just teetering on the edge of 187 00:10:49,840 --> 00:10:53,320 Speaker 1: of of this dangerous territory. It also it's also for me, 188 00:10:53,520 --> 00:10:57,720 Speaker 1: very dangerous because it pits two groups of women against 189 00:10:57,800 --> 00:11:01,360 Speaker 1: each other. It pits the woman who does stay at 190 00:11:01,360 --> 00:11:03,959 Speaker 1: home for whatever reason, to take care of her children, 191 00:11:04,240 --> 00:11:07,000 Speaker 1: to take care of her home because she fucking has to, 192 00:11:07,120 --> 00:11:10,680 Speaker 1: because there's no goddamn childcare in this country, against the 193 00:11:10,720 --> 00:11:14,079 Speaker 1: woman who either chooses to work because she wants to, 194 00:11:14,320 --> 00:11:16,800 Speaker 1: works because she has to. And it's setting up this 195 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,480 Speaker 1: dichotomy that says, oh, like this life is better than 196 00:11:21,520 --> 00:11:24,240 Speaker 1: this life, or this woman is so different from you 197 00:11:24,679 --> 00:11:27,120 Speaker 1: that you are at odds with her, when at the 198 00:11:27,200 --> 00:11:29,960 Speaker 1: end of the day, we're all doing labor. Raising children 199 00:11:30,000 --> 00:11:33,880 Speaker 1: is labor, making meals, cleaning the house, it's labor. Like 200 00:11:34,040 --> 00:11:39,280 Speaker 1: neither of these things is necessarily better than the other one. Yeah, 201 00:11:39,320 --> 00:11:43,439 Speaker 1: that's actually my biggest other than the like extremest ideology, 202 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:45,920 Speaker 1: that's one of my biggest problems with this kind of 203 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:49,439 Speaker 1: tread wife content is that it really, I think a 204 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,440 Speaker 1: lot of times hinges on this aspect of comparison, and 205 00:11:53,760 --> 00:11:55,160 Speaker 1: that's part of it that I don't like. I think 206 00:11:55,160 --> 00:11:58,160 Speaker 1: there's like a smugness to it that's like I figured 207 00:11:58,240 --> 00:12:01,680 Speaker 1: something out that other women are too stupid or too 208 00:12:01,720 --> 00:12:05,680 Speaker 1: shallow to see. And I just feel like if people 209 00:12:06,240 --> 00:12:08,880 Speaker 1: like I think people should do whatever makes them happy, 210 00:12:08,920 --> 00:12:11,800 Speaker 1: whatever they can afford to do. Um, you know. I 211 00:12:12,120 --> 00:12:14,640 Speaker 1: also think there's a kind of in some of the content, 212 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:18,600 Speaker 1: there's a kind of persecution complex, like, oh, I don't 213 00:12:18,640 --> 00:12:21,280 Speaker 1: want to be on Tinder or in the office or 214 00:12:21,320 --> 00:12:23,920 Speaker 1: away from my child or having my children in public school, 215 00:12:23,960 --> 00:12:26,559 Speaker 1: and I'm demonized for it. And I think in two 216 00:12:26,760 --> 00:12:28,719 Speaker 1: I don't this is this is my opinion. I don't 217 00:12:28,760 --> 00:12:32,959 Speaker 1: necessarily see a lot of people demonizing women who stay, 218 00:12:33,080 --> 00:12:34,880 Speaker 1: who who aren't working outside of the home. I think 219 00:12:34,920 --> 00:12:38,000 Speaker 1: that like, frankly, if if in my opinion, if you can, 220 00:12:38,160 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: if you figured it out, how to make that work 221 00:12:39,880 --> 00:12:42,240 Speaker 1: for you, like I'm jealous, if anything like, I think 222 00:12:42,280 --> 00:12:46,120 Speaker 1: that's great. Yeah, And I think, yeah, I think you're right. 223 00:12:46,120 --> 00:12:49,520 Speaker 1: It sets up this dichotomy of two different groups of 224 00:12:49,520 --> 00:12:51,679 Speaker 1: women where one is better than the other, or one's 225 00:12:51,720 --> 00:12:53,800 Speaker 1: choices are better than the other or more real than 226 00:12:53,840 --> 00:12:55,960 Speaker 1: the other. And I just think it's not really a 227 00:12:56,000 --> 00:12:59,719 Speaker 1: buyin area. Plenty of people, especially parents, will work, will 228 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,160 Speaker 1: leave the workforce, come back to the workforce. It's not 229 00:13:02,240 --> 00:13:06,559 Speaker 1: this binary thing where if you are able and enjoy 230 00:13:06,800 --> 00:13:09,640 Speaker 1: not working outside of the home, that is like a 231 00:13:10,600 --> 00:13:12,720 Speaker 1: and that that innately makes you better. I just think 232 00:13:12,760 --> 00:13:16,240 Speaker 1: it like it negates the reality of just like being 233 00:13:16,280 --> 00:13:18,000 Speaker 1: a person who has to make choices that are right 234 00:13:18,280 --> 00:13:22,120 Speaker 1: right for their lives. Totally, totally, absolutely and also a 235 00:13:22,160 --> 00:13:25,360 Speaker 1: lot of the child wife content, much like most of 236 00:13:25,360 --> 00:13:30,920 Speaker 1: the content on Instagram, is a glossified version of reality. 237 00:13:31,000 --> 00:13:33,280 Speaker 1: And it's also a lie. You know, a lot of 238 00:13:33,280 --> 00:13:37,679 Speaker 1: these traditional wives claim that this child wife lifestyle is 239 00:13:37,760 --> 00:13:41,720 Speaker 1: about paying homage to a slower, more intentional lifestyle. There's 240 00:13:41,760 --> 00:13:46,920 Speaker 1: nothing slow about being at home with two toddlers, are 241 00:13:46,960 --> 00:13:50,920 Speaker 1: you kidding? Like, give me my work day any day 242 00:13:50,960 --> 00:13:54,000 Speaker 1: where I'm like sitting at my computer and drinking coffee 243 00:13:54,440 --> 00:13:57,120 Speaker 1: rather than getting up every two minutes to be like 244 00:13:57,320 --> 00:13:59,920 Speaker 1: I needs strawberries. This water doesn't have enough ice up. 245 00:14:00,040 --> 00:14:03,120 Speaker 1: There's something weird and being between my toes. What the fuck? 246 00:14:03,240 --> 00:14:07,280 Speaker 1: That is not slow and intentional? That is being I 247 00:14:07,400 --> 00:14:09,720 Speaker 1: say this all the time. I love my kids, like 248 00:14:09,800 --> 00:14:12,200 Speaker 1: I really really like them. I like being a mom, 249 00:14:12,480 --> 00:14:17,160 Speaker 1: and I also don't really want to be alone one 250 00:14:17,200 --> 00:14:18,960 Speaker 1: on one with them for longer than three hours. At 251 00:14:18,960 --> 00:14:25,080 Speaker 1: a time. I don't. I'm not. I think I'm exhausted. 252 00:14:25,200 --> 00:14:29,280 Speaker 1: I need a break, and it just for me striking 253 00:14:29,320 --> 00:14:32,880 Speaker 1: a balance between doing meaningful work and caring for I 254 00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:34,520 Speaker 1: also don't want to come home at night and have 255 00:14:34,720 --> 00:14:37,840 Speaker 1: them already in bed, right, So meaningful work with caregiving. 256 00:14:37,880 --> 00:14:40,640 Speaker 1: I mean, that's the goddamn sweet spot for me. And 257 00:14:40,680 --> 00:14:43,720 Speaker 1: I think everyone has to find their own sweet spot. Yeah, 258 00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:46,360 Speaker 1: I think you're right, And I think you know, that's 259 00:14:46,760 --> 00:14:49,240 Speaker 1: at least for me, Like that's what feminism is about, 260 00:14:49,400 --> 00:14:51,760 Speaker 1: Like people like women being able to make the best 261 00:14:51,800 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 1: choices for them and that being okay. And I think, 262 00:14:55,760 --> 00:14:58,640 Speaker 1: you know, every time I see one of those TikTok's, 263 00:14:58,680 --> 00:15:00,880 Speaker 1: it's like, I live a slow life if part of 264 00:15:00,880 --> 00:15:02,360 Speaker 1: me wants to be life. What part of a slow 265 00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:05,280 Speaker 1: life involves setting up a tripod? You know what I mean? Like, 266 00:15:05,320 --> 00:15:07,440 Speaker 1: if I'm living a slow life, I'm not like a 267 00:15:07,480 --> 00:15:08,920 Speaker 1: lot a lot of the tiktoks that I see on 268 00:15:08,920 --> 00:15:11,320 Speaker 1: that are like probably involved an incredible amount of like 269 00:15:11,360 --> 00:15:13,080 Speaker 1: work to put together. And I'm like, God, it doesn't 270 00:15:13,080 --> 00:15:15,960 Speaker 1: look so slow and soft to me. It actually looks 271 00:15:15,960 --> 00:15:17,960 Speaker 1: like a lot of work went into this. On top 272 00:15:18,120 --> 00:15:20,760 Speaker 1: of being around your kids, which we know is exhausting 273 00:15:20,760 --> 00:15:23,440 Speaker 1: and draining. Awful. I mean, it's just, let's be honest, 274 00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:25,640 Speaker 1: a lot of it is awful. Um yeah, those beach waves, 275 00:15:25,720 --> 00:15:28,200 Speaker 1: that wasn't slow to a lot of work. Those eyelashes, 276 00:15:28,240 --> 00:15:30,440 Speaker 1: you're all worried, you've all get fake eyelashes on. There's 277 00:15:30,440 --> 00:15:34,120 Speaker 1: nothing slow and intentional. Actually it's intentional. There's nothing slow 278 00:15:34,120 --> 00:15:36,480 Speaker 1: about putting on the thake eyelash. Oh no, it's incredibly 279 00:15:36,480 --> 00:15:40,080 Speaker 1: time consuming and like yeah, and I think like that's 280 00:15:40,600 --> 00:15:42,880 Speaker 1: I don't know. Part of me wonders if like there's 281 00:15:42,920 --> 00:15:46,240 Speaker 1: just something about this content that is tailor made for 282 00:15:46,320 --> 00:15:51,800 Speaker 1: social media and that it invites comparison, and it can 283 00:15:51,960 --> 00:15:54,320 Speaker 1: it is an easy way to sort of polish up 284 00:15:54,320 --> 00:15:57,000 Speaker 1: a lie. You know that, like you're living a slow life, 285 00:15:57,000 --> 00:15:59,800 Speaker 1: you're so centered, in touch with your kids and YadA, YadA, YadA, 286 00:16:00,080 --> 00:16:02,440 Speaker 1: But in fact it can be none of that. But 287 00:16:02,520 --> 00:16:06,040 Speaker 1: you're presenting this very pretty package to women and moms, 288 00:16:06,280 --> 00:16:08,800 Speaker 1: a lot of whom are frankly at their limit. They've 289 00:16:08,800 --> 00:16:11,920 Speaker 1: been doing remote learning, they've been through this pandemic. We've 290 00:16:11,960 --> 00:16:15,640 Speaker 1: gone through like tampon shortages and baby formula shortages and no, 291 00:16:16,280 --> 00:16:21,560 Speaker 1: no meaningful institutional support or help selling, continuing to sell 292 00:16:21,800 --> 00:16:25,480 Speaker 1: moms this polished up lie. It's almost kind of cruel 293 00:16:25,560 --> 00:16:29,640 Speaker 1: to me. It is cruel. It's absolutely cruel because and 294 00:16:29,760 --> 00:16:32,920 Speaker 1: I think it's just it's a very patriarchal view of 295 00:16:33,000 --> 00:16:36,680 Speaker 1: the work of motherhood, of saying, oh, look at these 296 00:16:36,720 --> 00:16:40,720 Speaker 1: beautiful pictures, of these beautiful houses. This is so easy. 297 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:43,520 Speaker 1: This is a slower life. No, that is work. That 298 00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:47,280 Speaker 1: is so much labor. And you know, I've I've dabbled 299 00:16:47,400 --> 00:16:51,480 Speaker 1: in the domestic arts at times, and that's that's frankly, 300 00:16:51,520 --> 00:16:53,800 Speaker 1: that's harder work for me than having a dozen meetings 301 00:16:53,840 --> 00:16:56,440 Speaker 1: in a day trying to make a zucchini bead. Okay, 302 00:16:56,520 --> 00:16:58,800 Speaker 1: Like it's just like I'm not good at that. It's 303 00:16:58,800 --> 00:17:01,360 Speaker 1: not innate to me. It's not to say someone someone 304 00:17:01,360 --> 00:17:04,439 Speaker 1: else doesn't wildly enjoy it. And I do think that 305 00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,280 Speaker 1: we have sidelined we've sidelined work in the home right 306 00:17:08,359 --> 00:17:10,840 Speaker 1: and the big, the big, my biggest issue is always 307 00:17:10,920 --> 00:17:14,520 Speaker 1: that we just don't call things done in the home work, 308 00:17:14,920 --> 00:17:18,520 Speaker 1: But neither do the tread wives. They're they're blowing off 309 00:17:18,520 --> 00:17:20,720 Speaker 1: that work. They're saying this is a slower and easier 310 00:17:20,720 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: lifestyle and not recognizing that everything that a woman does 311 00:17:24,480 --> 00:17:27,800 Speaker 1: in the home is actual work. Yeah, I think that's 312 00:17:27,800 --> 00:17:30,080 Speaker 1: a good point that like, if you are a mom 313 00:17:30,440 --> 00:17:33,480 Speaker 1: or a parent who is engaging in the pretty exhausting 314 00:17:33,520 --> 00:17:36,880 Speaker 1: work of raising little humans, to have someone go on 315 00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: social media and be like, actually, this isn't labor, this 316 00:17:40,600 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 1: isn't work. This is just something that you know you 317 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:45,880 Speaker 1: shouldn't that you should always enjoy, that should come naturally 318 00:17:45,880 --> 00:17:47,480 Speaker 1: to you as a woman. That should just be really 319 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:51,639 Speaker 1: pleasing and nice and happy and gentle and slow. I 320 00:17:51,680 --> 00:17:54,080 Speaker 1: think a lot of parents the work of raising a 321 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 1: child does not feel happy or slow or or any 322 00:17:57,200 --> 00:17:59,200 Speaker 1: of that. And I don't know, it's just another way 323 00:17:59,240 --> 00:18:01,359 Speaker 1: to lie to win in about the work that we're 324 00:18:01,520 --> 00:18:05,520 Speaker 1: all doing, that we are doing in a sort of 325 00:18:06,440 --> 00:18:08,800 Speaker 1: this burden that we all have, this that we're all shouldering, 326 00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:10,760 Speaker 1: and telling us that we should enjoy it all the time. 327 00:18:10,800 --> 00:18:13,280 Speaker 1: It just is like another added way that we're just 328 00:18:13,440 --> 00:18:16,320 Speaker 1: not supported. No, it's really it really is. It's another 329 00:18:16,359 --> 00:18:18,240 Speaker 1: way of putting it down and putting down the labor 330 00:18:18,280 --> 00:18:20,440 Speaker 1: that we put into a life to make a life, 331 00:18:20,560 --> 00:18:23,240 Speaker 1: to raise humans. I think I think the raising human 332 00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:27,680 Speaker 1: beings is one of the hardest things that I do 333 00:18:27,920 --> 00:18:30,359 Speaker 1: in this portfolio of many things that I do in 334 00:18:30,400 --> 00:18:35,679 Speaker 1: our economically precarious society. But it also it's just it 335 00:18:35,720 --> 00:18:39,440 Speaker 1: remains undervalued in the traditional wives movement. While they claim 336 00:18:39,480 --> 00:18:42,120 Speaker 1: that they're elevating it, are continuing to undervalue it by 337 00:18:42,119 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: saying this is an easier way of life. Oh, that's 338 00:18:44,960 --> 00:18:47,560 Speaker 1: so true. I really want to see like the seventies 339 00:18:47,680 --> 00:18:50,920 Speaker 1: eighties era, completely checked out mom who has not seen 340 00:18:50,960 --> 00:18:53,760 Speaker 1: her kids all day and when they come home, she's like, oh, 341 00:18:53,800 --> 00:18:55,760 Speaker 1: I hope you've been bed because I'm not making dinner. 342 00:18:56,240 --> 00:18:59,000 Speaker 1: I want that mom to come back and de vogue 343 00:18:59,200 --> 00:19:01,960 Speaker 1: I mean the parenting book that I want to write, 344 00:19:01,960 --> 00:19:04,840 Speaker 1: and then know what I'll let me write because cancel culture. 345 00:19:05,600 --> 00:19:09,880 Speaker 1: Uh is a parent Like it's four man. Put him 346 00:19:09,880 --> 00:19:12,800 Speaker 1: in the way back of the car. Let's find some 347 00:19:12,840 --> 00:19:16,600 Speaker 1: candy cigarettes, right and just and PLoP him in front 348 00:19:16,600 --> 00:19:18,840 Speaker 1: of the TV and give him all the sugary cereals 349 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:21,119 Speaker 1: because you know it, and smoke, I guess smoke and 350 00:19:21,200 --> 00:19:24,240 Speaker 1: drink in front of them too, because that was my life. Um, 351 00:19:24,240 --> 00:19:26,000 Speaker 1: even if I had a cigarette now, would probably die. 352 00:19:26,000 --> 00:19:28,240 Speaker 1: But sometimes I still think about it about how wonderful 353 00:19:28,280 --> 00:19:31,240 Speaker 1: it would be. UM, and I feel like I turned 354 00:19:31,240 --> 00:19:35,639 Speaker 1: out fucking great. And I was a latchkey kid whose 355 00:19:35,680 --> 00:19:39,479 Speaker 1: parents chain smoke two packs of Cools a day in 356 00:19:39,520 --> 00:19:42,040 Speaker 1: front of me. I would have an even asthma. It's 357 00:19:42,080 --> 00:19:45,640 Speaker 1: honestly so funny to see the different like I don't 358 00:19:45,680 --> 00:19:48,200 Speaker 1: want to say trends, but waves of parenting, because yeah, 359 00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:50,359 Speaker 1: I was parented like that. I was. I feel like 360 00:19:50,400 --> 00:19:53,760 Speaker 1: I was the last generation of kids whose parents were like, 361 00:19:54,160 --> 00:19:57,240 Speaker 1: go outside, I don't want to see you for several hours, 362 00:19:57,680 --> 00:20:00,920 Speaker 1: and like, if you did that today, you'd be arrested. Well, 363 00:20:01,000 --> 00:20:02,640 Speaker 1: it was funny. I have a story which will probably 364 00:20:02,680 --> 00:20:05,200 Speaker 1: get me arrested, and I I don't care anymore. Um, 365 00:20:05,359 --> 00:20:06,760 Speaker 1: I just don't take my kids away, Okay, Like I'm 366 00:20:06,760 --> 00:20:11,639 Speaker 1: gonna But it's pouring fucking rain yesterday at school pickup, 367 00:20:11,760 --> 00:20:14,560 Speaker 1: and my husband hates using a car because we live 368 00:20:14,560 --> 00:20:16,840 Speaker 1: in the city, until like, obviously they could drop my 369 00:20:16,880 --> 00:20:19,280 Speaker 1: childler off at our first day preschool pick her up 370 00:20:19,320 --> 00:20:21,399 Speaker 1: again in the pouring rain. I'm seven months pregnant, by 371 00:20:21,440 --> 00:20:24,639 Speaker 1: the way, I'm huge, And I asked another parent a 372 00:20:24,640 --> 00:20:27,480 Speaker 1: car there if they could drive me the four blocks 373 00:20:27,520 --> 00:20:29,600 Speaker 1: home to drop me off, like, oh, I don't know 374 00:20:29,600 --> 00:20:30,760 Speaker 1: if I have enough seats, and it was like a 375 00:20:30,800 --> 00:20:33,000 Speaker 1: massive super like what is piled the way back? It's 376 00:20:33,320 --> 00:20:36,159 Speaker 1: four blocks. They wouldn't do it. They're like, there's no 377 00:20:36,200 --> 00:20:39,600 Speaker 1: seatbelts back there, and I was like, it's the way back, 378 00:20:43,359 --> 00:20:45,679 Speaker 1: It's okay. I'm like we you know. I mean, like again, 379 00:20:45,720 --> 00:20:47,560 Speaker 1: like I'm not gonna do it for like a three 380 00:20:47,560 --> 00:20:50,359 Speaker 1: hour road trip with my kid, but like we're just 381 00:20:50,520 --> 00:20:55,560 Speaker 1: so afraid of everything anymore. And I think it's it's created. 382 00:20:55,640 --> 00:20:57,440 Speaker 1: This is a whole other episode. It's creating up kids. 383 00:20:57,560 --> 00:20:58,920 Speaker 1: It's creating kids who don't know how to live in 384 00:20:58,960 --> 00:21:00,920 Speaker 1: the goddam world as the world bringing it around us. 385 00:21:00,960 --> 00:21:03,760 Speaker 1: But that's another podcast that no one will let me do. 386 00:21:04,320 --> 00:21:06,880 Speaker 1: I had that same experience on a family trip recently 387 00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:10,119 Speaker 1: where my sister in law we were piled into a 388 00:21:10,160 --> 00:21:11,879 Speaker 1: car and she was like, I'll just hold her on 389 00:21:11,920 --> 00:21:17,200 Speaker 1: my lap, Carcie, We're going to blotts. It's fine. Yeah, 390 00:21:17,520 --> 00:21:19,920 Speaker 1: I don't know. Again, Like I think so many corners 391 00:21:19,920 --> 00:21:23,439 Speaker 1: on the internet are dark and terrible for women. And 392 00:21:23,480 --> 00:21:25,320 Speaker 1: the ones that are dark and the most dark and 393 00:21:25,400 --> 00:21:31,040 Speaker 1: terrible are the ones that look the prettiest. That's such 394 00:21:31,040 --> 00:21:34,679 Speaker 1: a I mean, I think you're right, because you know, 395 00:21:34,840 --> 00:21:36,480 Speaker 1: I'm not a parent, but I can imagine if you're 396 00:21:36,480 --> 00:21:39,879 Speaker 1: a new mom, it's scary. And then you go to 397 00:21:39,960 --> 00:21:43,639 Speaker 1: these social media places or spaces that are sensibly supposed 398 00:21:43,680 --> 00:21:46,239 Speaker 1: to be about support and helping you, and they just 399 00:21:46,280 --> 00:21:50,640 Speaker 1: make you feel that much more inadequate and alone and terrified, terrible. 400 00:21:50,640 --> 00:21:52,359 Speaker 1: I would never want to be a new mom again 401 00:21:52,640 --> 00:21:55,920 Speaker 1: and be and be scrolling the internet and looking at 402 00:21:55,960 --> 00:21:58,040 Speaker 1: Instagram and I'm just happy that I'm an old mom 403 00:21:58,119 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: at this point, who's just going to let a third 404 00:22:02,119 --> 00:22:04,639 Speaker 1: child fall out of my body and probably sleep in 405 00:22:04,680 --> 00:22:09,040 Speaker 1: a cardboard box. And I said, but I just, yeah, 406 00:22:09,080 --> 00:22:11,719 Speaker 1: I don't have time for it. But like thinking if 407 00:22:11,800 --> 00:22:14,600 Speaker 1: like I was so terrified about new motherhood, which all 408 00:22:14,600 --> 00:22:16,480 Speaker 1: new moms are, and then they see these kinds of 409 00:22:16,520 --> 00:22:19,360 Speaker 1: pictures and they're like, I'm failing. Well, women, we think 410 00:22:19,359 --> 00:22:21,560 Speaker 1: we're failing. Every day. I wake up and feel like 411 00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,520 Speaker 1: a failure, even though like rationally I know that I shouldn't. 412 00:22:24,920 --> 00:22:27,399 Speaker 1: I write good books, I make good podcasts, but like 413 00:22:27,840 --> 00:22:30,120 Speaker 1: I still feel like I'm failing every day. We don't 414 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,320 Speaker 1: need another person to tell us that we're failing, especially 415 00:22:33,359 --> 00:22:36,280 Speaker 1: not doing so under the guys of I'm telling you 416 00:22:36,320 --> 00:22:38,320 Speaker 1: this to help you. This is this is just for 417 00:22:38,400 --> 00:22:40,160 Speaker 1: your own good that you need to know this information 418 00:22:40,160 --> 00:22:44,560 Speaker 1: about how much you're failing at the mom exactly exactly. Yeah. 419 00:22:44,720 --> 00:22:49,359 Speaker 1: So I don't again like women working in the home, 420 00:22:49,720 --> 00:22:54,160 Speaker 1: raising children, doing domestic labor. Good thing. Women that say 421 00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:57,639 Speaker 1: that we women have failed by being in the workforce. Workforce, 422 00:22:58,080 --> 00:23:06,240 Speaker 1: fuck you, fuck you real hard more. After a quick break, 423 00:23:16,960 --> 00:23:20,680 Speaker 1: let's get right back into it. I do have one 424 00:23:20,880 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: last quick question for you. So, speaking of all things 425 00:23:23,320 --> 00:23:26,639 Speaker 1: throwbacky and traditional, especially for women, I happen to know 426 00:23:26,680 --> 00:23:29,040 Speaker 1: that you have a particular interest and a one Miss 427 00:23:29,080 --> 00:23:31,719 Speaker 1: Laura Ingles Wilder, if you don't know who that is. 428 00:23:31,800 --> 00:23:33,960 Speaker 1: She was the writer of the series Little House on 429 00:23:34,080 --> 00:23:37,119 Speaker 1: a Prairie, which became a TV show and was massively influential. 430 00:23:37,400 --> 00:23:40,480 Speaker 1: Can you tell us about that interest and where it 431 00:23:40,560 --> 00:23:45,000 Speaker 1: might take you next? What a bad asspect she was? Yes, 432 00:23:45,280 --> 00:23:47,479 Speaker 1: I I love me sim Laura engles Wader. I read 433 00:23:47,520 --> 00:23:50,360 Speaker 1: all the books growing up, but I'm not as much 434 00:23:50,400 --> 00:23:54,480 Speaker 1: of an obsessive as my dear friend Clennis McNichol, who 435 00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:57,840 Speaker 1: co hosted Under the Influence with me um And who 436 00:23:57,880 --> 00:24:00,000 Speaker 1: also married my husband and I in front of us 437 00:24:00,000 --> 00:24:02,520 Speaker 1: Sphinx seven years ago. Uh. I mean, she's like a 438 00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,720 Speaker 1: freak about Laura Ingles Wilder and but we're both obsessed 439 00:24:06,840 --> 00:24:11,439 Speaker 1: with how this woman's real life stories of growing up 440 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:17,359 Speaker 1: on the prairie have become the most read books, probably 441 00:24:17,400 --> 00:24:20,919 Speaker 1: among the most read books in the entire world, and 442 00:24:20,960 --> 00:24:26,199 Speaker 1: also have shaped how we view the American West. And 443 00:24:26,240 --> 00:24:29,720 Speaker 1: we are doing new podcast called Wilder, which comes out 444 00:24:29,720 --> 00:24:33,240 Speaker 1: in March, where we spent a good chunk of this 445 00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:36,880 Speaker 1: summer traveling around the United States going to the Laura 446 00:24:36,960 --> 00:24:41,920 Speaker 1: Ingles Wilder homesteads and revisiting what her legacy means to America, 447 00:24:42,240 --> 00:24:44,359 Speaker 1: what she got wrong, and she didn't everything right. She 448 00:24:44,400 --> 00:24:47,680 Speaker 1: sucked up a lot of stuff, like she really here's 449 00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:50,720 Speaker 1: a lot more that she could have included in those 450 00:24:50,760 --> 00:24:53,560 Speaker 1: books about what was happening in Black America at the time, 451 00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:57,000 Speaker 1: what was happening with the indigenous people whose land that 452 00:24:57,040 --> 00:25:01,439 Speaker 1: her family was constantly moving on to. That's she was 453 00:25:01,680 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: so ahead of her time in terms of being a 454 00:25:05,560 --> 00:25:11,320 Speaker 1: wild child who just wanted to explore the world and 455 00:25:11,320 --> 00:25:14,920 Speaker 1: those sort of the things we reported out um while 456 00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:18,600 Speaker 1: doing this podcast have been so fascinating. My favorite is 457 00:25:18,640 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 1: that Laura is really huge with Japanese tourists. Huge. She's 458 00:25:23,400 --> 00:25:27,320 Speaker 1: huge in Japan. Who knew? And it's for a couple 459 00:25:27,359 --> 00:25:30,440 Speaker 1: of reasons. One, Japanese schools often used the Little House 460 00:25:30,440 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 1: Books to teach English, UM. The darker side of that UM, 461 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: many of the internment camps forced people to read the 462 00:25:39,040 --> 00:25:42,040 Speaker 1: laur Angles Wilder books here in America. And then the 463 00:25:42,080 --> 00:25:45,080 Speaker 1: television show was wildly popular. So these little towns, these 464 00:25:45,119 --> 00:25:49,640 Speaker 1: little very white rural towns where Laura's from, get bus 465 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:54,159 Speaker 1: loads of Japanese tourists visiting them every year. But to 466 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,639 Speaker 1: their like, the towns love it and it is actually 467 00:25:57,640 --> 00:26:00,200 Speaker 1: opened the town's eyes to different cultures that they never 468 00:26:00,240 --> 00:26:03,960 Speaker 1: would have experienced were it not for Laura and so 469 00:26:04,240 --> 00:26:06,280 Speaker 1: and this is like one of the little tidbits that 470 00:26:06,280 --> 00:26:08,880 Speaker 1: that we loved while we were doing this. And yeah, 471 00:26:08,920 --> 00:26:12,120 Speaker 1: that podcast is coming out in March. I'm also hoping 472 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:14,920 Speaker 1: to work on a podcast about Judy Bloom and her 473 00:26:15,240 --> 00:26:19,280 Speaker 1: her during her enduring legacy on our Lives. Oh my god, please, 474 00:26:19,600 --> 00:26:21,680 Speaker 1: I am obsessed with Judy Bloom. When I was a kid, 475 00:26:21,960 --> 00:26:25,000 Speaker 1: the book are you there, God, it's me Margaret. It 476 00:26:25,800 --> 00:26:28,840 Speaker 1: was we like trade I mean this is we used 477 00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:31,160 Speaker 1: to trade it, like when I was in the fourth 478 00:26:31,240 --> 00:26:33,159 Speaker 1: or fifth grade. It was for we thought it was 479 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:37,160 Speaker 1: like the most grown up, like you know book about 480 00:26:37,200 --> 00:26:39,240 Speaker 1: our bodies and our are the way, you know, we 481 00:26:39,280 --> 00:26:41,840 Speaker 1: would like like trade it to each other, like have 482 00:26:41,880 --> 00:26:45,440 Speaker 1: you read this? I don't know, I know that one 483 00:26:45,560 --> 00:26:48,080 Speaker 1: and then also Danye and Forever. I'm like, this is 484 00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:51,760 Speaker 1: the dirtiest sex I've ever read about. Um, yeah, great, 485 00:26:51,760 --> 00:26:53,440 Speaker 1: you're gonna come on that show. I'm trying to get 486 00:26:53,440 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 1: that green light right now, so you're coming on it. 487 00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:57,159 Speaker 1: I'm gonna tell everyone that you're I'm in. I'm in. 488 00:26:57,320 --> 00:27:00,520 Speaker 1: I cannot wait, right, Joe, thank you so much for 489 00:27:00,560 --> 00:27:02,679 Speaker 1: being here. Where can folks keep up with all the 490 00:27:02,800 --> 00:27:07,240 Speaker 1: cool work that you're doing. Unfortunately, the fucking Instagram at 491 00:27:07,840 --> 00:27:10,240 Speaker 1: at Joe Piazza author, Like I spend all of my 492 00:27:10,320 --> 00:27:12,800 Speaker 1: day's trashing Instagram and saying how much I hate it, 493 00:27:13,119 --> 00:27:15,080 Speaker 1: And then I'm like, this is a really the easiest 494 00:27:15,080 --> 00:27:18,720 Speaker 1: place to sign me, So thank you Instagram at Joe 495 00:27:18,760 --> 00:27:21,439 Speaker 1: Piazza author. It is the easiest place. I'm gonna have 496 00:27:21,520 --> 00:27:24,240 Speaker 1: this baby in like two months, So I'm gonna I'm 497 00:27:24,280 --> 00:27:27,560 Speaker 1: either gonna go dark or I'm gonna become a traditional life. Well, 498 00:27:27,600 --> 00:27:29,440 Speaker 1: everyone will have to check in on your Instagram to 499 00:27:29,480 --> 00:27:38,359 Speaker 1: see which way it goes. Which awesome. If you're looking 500 00:27:38,359 --> 00:27:40,440 Speaker 1: for ways to support the show, check out our March 501 00:27:40,520 --> 00:27:44,280 Speaker 1: store at tangodi dot com. Flash Store. Got a story 502 00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:46,200 Speaker 1: about an interesting thing in tech, or just want to 503 00:27:46,200 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: say hi, you can we just at Hello at tangodi 504 00:27:48,640 --> 00:27:51,200 Speaker 1: dot com. You can also find transcripts for today's episode 505 00:27:51,240 --> 00:27:53,399 Speaker 1: at tangdi dot com. There Are No Girls on the 506 00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:56,159 Speaker 1: Internet was created by me Brigittad. It's a production of 507 00:27:56,160 --> 00:28:00,399 Speaker 1: iHeart Radio and Unboss Creative, edited by Joey pat Jonathan 508 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: Strickland as our executive producer. Terry Harrison is our producer 509 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:06,920 Speaker 1: and sound engineer. Michael Amata was our contributing producer. I'm 510 00:28:06,960 --> 00:28:09,280 Speaker 1: your host, Bridget Todd. If you want to help us grow, 511 00:28:09,480 --> 00:28:12,200 Speaker 1: rate and review us on our Apple podcasts. For more 512 00:28:12,200 --> 00:28:14,680 Speaker 1: podcasts from iHeart Radio, check out the iHeart Radio app, 513 00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:16,760 Speaker 1: Apple podcast, or wherever you get your podcasts.