WEBVTT - Businessweek Extra-Cliff Hudson

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol

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<v Speaker 1>Master along with Bloomberg's Paul Sweeney. Welcome to the Bloomberg

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<v Speaker 1>Business Week Extra. It's our weekly podcast bringing you one

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<v Speaker 1>of our favorite conversations from our daily radio show, and

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<v Speaker 1>that included this guest who understands the fast food space

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<v Speaker 1>big time. We're talking about Clifford Hudson, former chairman and

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<v Speaker 1>CEO of Oklahoma Basonic Drive In and Sonic Corporation. He's

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<v Speaker 1>spent several decades at the company and from he was

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<v Speaker 1>the CEO. He's got a new book out. It's called

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<v Speaker 1>Master of None, How Jack of all trades can still

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<v Speaker 1>reach the top Man. I kinda say his path to

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<v Speaker 1>SEEO not exactly a planned one, and he shares some

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<v Speaker 1>of that story and his thoughts also on Today's Leaders

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<v Speaker 1>with Bloomberg's Paul Sweeney and me. I think at times,

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<v Speaker 1>both in small ways and big ways, I can actually

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<v Speaker 1>refocus better by having some variety of my day, variety

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<v Speaker 1>in my life and doing other things that are quite

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<v Speaker 1>contrasted before responsibilities that carried all those years. I think

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<v Speaker 1>actually makes me a more productive person. The subtitles of book,

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<v Speaker 1>I think is pretty critical here how jack of all

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<v Speaker 1>trades can still reach the top. Um. I didn't study business.

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<v Speaker 1>I didn't study business, and undergraduate or graduate school granted

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<v Speaker 1>studies some business law, but never really saw myself going

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<v Speaker 1>into business in a full time way, nor running a

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<v Speaker 1>company like I ultimately did. So it was a little

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<v Speaker 1>coincidental in some ways. You can even say that an

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<v Speaker 1>accidental CEO. But there is a chapter in the book

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<v Speaker 1>it says just say yes, and in fact that we're

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<v Speaker 1>about a four four year period. I guess yes, it

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<v Speaker 1>was just three year far from nine two to nine.

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<v Speaker 1>Each time I had a job opportunity to move up

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<v Speaker 1>in the company. Um, there was a lot of training,

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of risks associated with the center. But each

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<v Speaker 1>time I just said yes. And then one day at

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<v Speaker 1>the board of me, the CEO said he had a

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<v Speaker 1>new job. The board turned to me and said, you

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<v Speaker 1>want to be CEO and would the over twenty or

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<v Speaker 1>three years, Clifford, who who do you think would benefit

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<v Speaker 1>will benefit most from your book? Did you have any

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<v Speaker 1>kind of level of employee in mind as you're writing it? Well?

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<v Speaker 1>I think, first of all, I think the topic can

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<v Speaker 1>have broad general appeal. I wrote the book because I

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<v Speaker 1>felt like there are a number of good stories that

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<v Speaker 1>I could tell from my time period in the job.

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<v Speaker 1>But I also wrote it because I think my the leadership.

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<v Speaker 1>I mean, if there is a expertise I developed throughout

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<v Speaker 1>my life, it was leadership skills, and I thought being

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<v Speaker 1>able to tell a number of people that story of

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<v Speaker 1>the development those is a good story and one that

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<v Speaker 1>people can appreciate it, perhaps particularly younger people earlier in

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<v Speaker 1>their careers in this kind of a displacement period with

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<v Speaker 1>the pandemic um people earlier in their careers might find

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<v Speaker 1>particularly in particular enjoyment from it. But I also think

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<v Speaker 1>a mid career person is kind of saying, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>how should I be, you know, framing my outlook on

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<v Speaker 1>the Should I just bury my head in deeper in

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<v Speaker 1>what I'm doing? So I think that, uh, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>maybe it's self serving, but I think everybody could enjoy

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<v Speaker 1>the book. How's that? So? I love your chapter names

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<v Speaker 1>and I've just been kind of perusing the book. You've

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<v Speaker 1>got one that says your and matters more than your

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<v Speaker 1>What what do you mean by that? Well? Good question, Uh,

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<v Speaker 1>the the very idea about variety and looking out You've

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<v Speaker 1>got to keep your head focused in a lot of ways.

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<v Speaker 1>But in order to evolve your career and evolve your

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<v Speaker 1>your your professional capabilities, your skill sets, you also have

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<v Speaker 1>to be looking out. One are the ways to be

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<v Speaker 1>to think about doing that is even within an enterprise

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<v Speaker 1>where you're employed or if you own and operate it

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<v Speaker 1>um there generally are going to be business opportunities within opportunities.

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<v Speaker 1>So in other words, your what in a way is

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<v Speaker 1>what you're working on today. You know, what do you do?

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<v Speaker 1>When someone I asked you that, what do you do?

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<v Speaker 1>You know? But at the same time, wherever it is

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<v Speaker 1>you're working, whatever it is you're doing, or an enterprise

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<v Speaker 1>you're operating, there really is a new business and a

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<v Speaker 1>new enterprise. It's often an extension of what you're doing.

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<v Speaker 1>It's sonic. We had that experience. I talked about this

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<v Speaker 1>in different ways in the book, but one of them

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<v Speaker 1>was we viewed ourselves basically as a Hamburger chain thirty

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<v Speaker 1>years ago, and that was most of our business hamburger

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<v Speaker 1>drinks and side orders. But the fact is we had

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<v Speaker 1>an ice cream machine in every store, and once we

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<v Speaker 1>simply shifted our thinking about that, developed a program again

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<v Speaker 1>marketing it it really took off. My suspicion today is

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<v Speaker 1>a Sonic does something in xcess to five million dollars

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<v Speaker 1>in ice cream and it's and it's ice cream and drink.

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<v Speaker 1>It's ice cream and drink business. Uh uh. Generally is

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<v Speaker 1>probably more on the order of one point five to

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<v Speaker 1>two big in sales. So it's an enormous part of

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<v Speaker 1>the business that wasn't promoted thirty years ago. And all

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<v Speaker 1>I want right now, Cliff, is like an ice cream Sunday,

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<v Speaker 1>So thank you very much, because I am starving. I

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<v Speaker 1>am starving, so good, stuffy, so interesting. You know, Cliff,

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<v Speaker 1>being a leadership role at a major company, I'm sure

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<v Speaker 1>you've learned a few things when you think about leadership.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, what are the key key pillars for you?

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<v Speaker 1>And are there any leaders that you learned from well,

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<v Speaker 1>so Keith colors that you in terms of leading a group,

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<v Speaker 1>um uh. And I'm going to take these in this order,

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<v Speaker 1>but they're they're equal weighted. One is I think you

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<v Speaker 1>a leader needs to have, you know, a passion for

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<v Speaker 1>the mission of the organization. And if the mission, if

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<v Speaker 1>the leader doesn't have passion, then you know things are

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<v Speaker 1>gonna You're gonna have trouble, but the leader needs to

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<v Speaker 1>have passion for the mission of the organization. And the

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<v Speaker 1>leader needs to have compassion for the people within the organization.

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<v Speaker 1>And if a leader doesn't care about those people and

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<v Speaker 1>want them to be successful, those people are going to

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<v Speaker 1>see through that and they're going to be less loyal

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<v Speaker 1>and they guess not going to stay around as long.

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<v Speaker 1>They're not gonna work as hard to be as committed.

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<v Speaker 1>I think these are two colors that are critical for

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<v Speaker 1>leaders in virtually any position. Well, okay, I'm going to

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<v Speaker 1>go there. I'm probably gonna get yelled at. But we

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<v Speaker 1>have a commander in chief that doesn't seem to have

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<v Speaker 1>a lot of compassion for what's going on in our country.

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<v Speaker 1>I am just curious, you know, And that's not me.

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<v Speaker 1>I think if you read and you talk to people,

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<v Speaker 1>there is certainly that feeling. But I do wonder what

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<v Speaker 1>you make of leadership today, especially at a time of

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<v Speaker 1>crisis and what we say, are you know, dual pandemics

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<v Speaker 1>between the health crisis and then also racism and the

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<v Speaker 1>injustices there in terms of inequalities. Yeah, well, these are

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<v Speaker 1>these are critical and important issue is um uh, Well,

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<v Speaker 1>this is it's just lead their critical issues for our

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<v Speaker 1>country and and they're not new issues obviously. The idea

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<v Speaker 1>particularly is her latter point, the equality, uh critical thing

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<v Speaker 1>for our country and its culture. Um traditionally in business

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<v Speaker 1>dominant position that we look at boards and CEO postions

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<v Speaker 1>now still dominant, dominated by white males. That the problem

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<v Speaker 1>problem when that's the case is you're excluding you know,

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<v Speaker 1>pick a number, but roughly you're excluding, you know, three

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<v Speaker 1>quarters of the population, which means you're excluding the talent

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<v Speaker 1>of three quarters of the population. So that that's just

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<v Speaker 1>a hurdle. We we you know, we I think many

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<v Speaker 1>of us thought we were building over but uh, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>we've got some things we still have to work through

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<v Speaker 1>as a as a country and the culture to recognize

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<v Speaker 1>we need a big tent. We need everybody under that

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<v Speaker 1>tent moving the same direction, um as it relates to

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<v Speaker 1>our leader. Um. Uh So, something that you see on

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<v Speaker 1>my website but you don't see on the book. I did. Um.

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<v Speaker 1>I did serve in the Clinton administration in a part

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<v Speaker 1>time position, and uh and that's kind of been my

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<v Speaker 1>those have been my stripes all my voting life. Uh. So,

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<v Speaker 1>I think that people need to believe that their leader

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<v Speaker 1>once again has that their best interests at heart and

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<v Speaker 1>compassion you know, for their lives, you know, for their

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<v Speaker 1>daily lives. And when they don't feel that way, that

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<v Speaker 1>the gap that opens up there is not gonna it's

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<v Speaker 1>not gonna be healthy for an enterprise, not gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>healthy for a country, and ultimately results in some changes

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<v Speaker 1>in leadership. When you look at leaders that are out there,

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<v Speaker 1>who do you admire or who do you admire you

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<v Speaker 1>know in the past in terms of leaders well, are

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<v Speaker 1>they variety of front uh? Um, That's a that's an

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<v Speaker 1>interesting one. I've always been I've always enjoyed them biographical

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<v Speaker 1>UM reading, you know, I've always enjoyed the history and UM.

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<v Speaker 1>And so as I look back at leaders in the

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<v Speaker 1>United States, I mean it's very easy to look at that,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, coming out of World War Two, because that

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<v Speaker 1>was such an extraordinary period of time. And look at

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<v Speaker 1>the leadership that FDR provided to US, UM through the war.

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<v Speaker 1>Look at the leadership that Eisenhower provided to its as

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<v Speaker 1>a military figure but then also as a political figure.

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<v Speaker 1>Coming out of the war, Um, things started getting a

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<v Speaker 1>little you know, thin in some ways. Once you get uh,

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<v Speaker 1>sixties seventies, eighties. Um, I think, uh uh, it's a

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<v Speaker 1>little more challenging. I think the style of leadership that

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<v Speaker 1>Barack Obama brought to the country, his his integrity, the

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<v Speaker 1>way he communicated with us. I have no doubt that

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<v Speaker 1>he cared enormously seeing United United States continued to grant succeeds.

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<v Speaker 1>A wonderful style of leadership that he brought to the country.

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<v Speaker 1>That was Clifford Hudson, former chairman and CEO of Oklahoma

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<v Speaker 1>based Sonic Drive In and Sonic Corporation, spent a long

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<v Speaker 1>time at the company. He's got a new book out,

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<v Speaker 1>Master of None, How Jack of All Trades can still

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<v Speaker 1>reach the top. It's a great story and a great read.

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<v Speaker 1>Or you've been listening to Bloomberg Business Week Extra for

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<v Speaker 1>sure to listen to Bloomberg Business Week Radio, airing live

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<v Speaker 1>Monday through Friday at two pm Wall Street Time on

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<v Speaker 1>Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser along with Bloomberg's Paul Sweeney.

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<v Speaker 1>This is Bloomberg