1
00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:06,880
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg Business Week from Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol

2
00:00:06,920 --> 00:00:09,760
Speaker 1: Master along with Bloomberg's Paul Sweeney. Welcome to the Bloomberg

3
00:00:09,760 --> 00:00:12,360
Speaker 1: Business Week Extra. It's our weekly podcast bringing you one

4
00:00:12,360 --> 00:00:15,520
Speaker 1: of our favorite conversations from our daily radio show, and

5
00:00:15,560 --> 00:00:18,760
Speaker 1: that included this guest who understands the fast food space

6
00:00:18,840 --> 00:00:21,680
Speaker 1: big time. We're talking about Clifford Hudson, former chairman and

7
00:00:21,720 --> 00:00:25,360
Speaker 1: CEO of Oklahoma Basonic Drive In and Sonic Corporation. He's

8
00:00:25,320 --> 00:00:29,760
Speaker 1: spent several decades at the company and from he was

9
00:00:29,800 --> 00:00:32,400
Speaker 1: the CEO. He's got a new book out. It's called

10
00:00:32,440 --> 00:00:34,879
Speaker 1: Master of None, How Jack of all trades can still

11
00:00:34,960 --> 00:00:36,960
Speaker 1: reach the top Man. I kinda say his path to

12
00:00:37,000 --> 00:00:40,000
Speaker 1: SEEO not exactly a planned one, and he shares some

13
00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:43,199
Speaker 1: of that story and his thoughts also on Today's Leaders

14
00:00:43,479 --> 00:00:46,559
Speaker 1: with Bloomberg's Paul Sweeney and me. I think at times,

15
00:00:46,560 --> 00:00:49,519
Speaker 1: both in small ways and big ways, I can actually

16
00:00:49,520 --> 00:00:54,120
Speaker 1: refocus better by having some variety of my day, variety

17
00:00:54,160 --> 00:00:58,440
Speaker 1: in my life and doing other things that are quite

18
00:00:58,440 --> 00:01:02,800
Speaker 1: contrasted before responsibilities that carried all those years. I think

19
00:01:02,840 --> 00:01:06,880
Speaker 1: actually makes me a more productive person. The subtitles of book,

20
00:01:06,880 --> 00:01:09,119
Speaker 1: I think is pretty critical here how jack of all

21
00:01:09,120 --> 00:01:12,800
Speaker 1: trades can still reach the top. Um. I didn't study business.

22
00:01:12,800 --> 00:01:16,480
Speaker 1: I didn't study business, and undergraduate or graduate school granted

23
00:01:16,560 --> 00:01:20,880
Speaker 1: studies some business law, but never really saw myself going

24
00:01:20,920 --> 00:01:23,080
Speaker 1: into business in a full time way, nor running a

25
00:01:23,160 --> 00:01:26,920
Speaker 1: company like I ultimately did. So it was a little

26
00:01:26,959 --> 00:01:30,120
Speaker 1: coincidental in some ways. You can even say that an

27
00:01:30,160 --> 00:01:34,240
Speaker 1: accidental CEO. But there is a chapter in the book

28
00:01:34,280 --> 00:01:37,679
Speaker 1: it says just say yes, and in fact that we're

29
00:01:37,720 --> 00:01:40,920
Speaker 1: about a four four year period. I guess yes, it

30
00:01:41,080 --> 00:01:42,960
Speaker 1: was just three year far from nine two to nine.

31
00:01:43,720 --> 00:01:47,120
Speaker 1: Each time I had a job opportunity to move up

32
00:01:47,120 --> 00:01:49,960
Speaker 1: in the company. Um, there was a lot of training,

33
00:01:50,000 --> 00:01:52,040
Speaker 1: a lot of risks associated with the center. But each

34
00:01:52,080 --> 00:01:55,040
Speaker 1: time I just said yes. And then one day at

35
00:01:55,040 --> 00:01:56,720
Speaker 1: the board of me, the CEO said he had a

36
00:01:56,760 --> 00:01:58,880
Speaker 1: new job. The board turned to me and said, you

37
00:01:58,960 --> 00:02:01,040
Speaker 1: want to be CEO and would the over twenty or

38
00:02:01,040 --> 00:02:05,520
Speaker 1: three years, Clifford, who who do you think would benefit

39
00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:08,280
Speaker 1: will benefit most from your book? Did you have any

40
00:02:08,440 --> 00:02:12,280
Speaker 1: kind of level of employee in mind as you're writing it? Well?

41
00:02:12,320 --> 00:02:15,600
Speaker 1: I think, first of all, I think the topic can

42
00:02:15,600 --> 00:02:18,520
Speaker 1: have broad general appeal. I wrote the book because I

43
00:02:18,520 --> 00:02:20,560
Speaker 1: felt like there are a number of good stories that

44
00:02:20,600 --> 00:02:23,120
Speaker 1: I could tell from my time period in the job.

45
00:02:23,600 --> 00:02:27,480
Speaker 1: But I also wrote it because I think my the leadership.

46
00:02:27,639 --> 00:02:30,560
Speaker 1: I mean, if there is a expertise I developed throughout

47
00:02:30,560 --> 00:02:34,520
Speaker 1: my life, it was leadership skills, and I thought being

48
00:02:34,560 --> 00:02:37,320
Speaker 1: able to tell a number of people that story of

49
00:02:37,400 --> 00:02:39,880
Speaker 1: the development those is a good story and one that

50
00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:44,120
Speaker 1: people can appreciate it, perhaps particularly younger people earlier in

51
00:02:44,120 --> 00:02:46,720
Speaker 1: their careers in this kind of a displacement period with

52
00:02:46,800 --> 00:02:50,400
Speaker 1: the pandemic um people earlier in their careers might find

53
00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:54,000
Speaker 1: particularly in particular enjoyment from it. But I also think

54
00:02:54,040 --> 00:02:56,960
Speaker 1: a mid career person is kind of saying, you know,

55
00:02:56,960 --> 00:02:59,680
Speaker 1: how should I be, you know, framing my outlook on

56
00:02:59,760 --> 00:03:02,799
Speaker 1: the Should I just bury my head in deeper in

57
00:03:02,919 --> 00:03:07,280
Speaker 1: what I'm doing? So I think that, uh, you know,

58
00:03:07,919 --> 00:03:10,360
Speaker 1: maybe it's self serving, but I think everybody could enjoy

59
00:03:10,440 --> 00:03:13,160
Speaker 1: the book. How's that? So? I love your chapter names

60
00:03:13,160 --> 00:03:16,280
Speaker 1: and I've just been kind of perusing the book. You've

61
00:03:16,280 --> 00:03:19,440
Speaker 1: got one that says your and matters more than your

62
00:03:19,520 --> 00:03:23,640
Speaker 1: What what do you mean by that? Well? Good question, Uh,

63
00:03:24,280 --> 00:03:27,960
Speaker 1: the the very idea about variety and looking out You've

64
00:03:27,960 --> 00:03:30,400
Speaker 1: got to keep your head focused in a lot of ways.

65
00:03:30,440 --> 00:03:33,840
Speaker 1: But in order to evolve your career and evolve your

66
00:03:34,200 --> 00:03:38,360
Speaker 1: your your professional capabilities, your skill sets, you also have

67
00:03:38,440 --> 00:03:40,720
Speaker 1: to be looking out. One are the ways to be

68
00:03:40,760 --> 00:03:44,200
Speaker 1: to think about doing that is even within an enterprise

69
00:03:44,840 --> 00:03:47,560
Speaker 1: where you're employed or if you own and operate it

70
00:03:48,120 --> 00:03:53,640
Speaker 1: um there generally are going to be business opportunities within opportunities.

71
00:03:54,000 --> 00:03:56,040
Speaker 1: So in other words, your what in a way is

72
00:03:56,080 --> 00:03:58,760
Speaker 1: what you're working on today. You know, what do you do?

73
00:03:58,840 --> 00:04:00,800
Speaker 1: When someone I asked you that, what do you do?

74
00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:03,080
Speaker 1: You know? But at the same time, wherever it is

75
00:04:03,120 --> 00:04:05,440
Speaker 1: you're working, whatever it is you're doing, or an enterprise

76
00:04:05,520 --> 00:04:09,600
Speaker 1: you're operating, there really is a new business and a

77
00:04:09,600 --> 00:04:12,800
Speaker 1: new enterprise. It's often an extension of what you're doing.

78
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:15,520
Speaker 1: It's sonic. We had that experience. I talked about this

79
00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:18,120
Speaker 1: in different ways in the book, but one of them

80
00:04:18,240 --> 00:04:24,000
Speaker 1: was we viewed ourselves basically as a Hamburger chain thirty

81
00:04:24,160 --> 00:04:27,960
Speaker 1: years ago, and that was most of our business hamburger

82
00:04:28,080 --> 00:04:30,920
Speaker 1: drinks and side orders. But the fact is we had

83
00:04:30,920 --> 00:04:33,960
Speaker 1: an ice cream machine in every store, and once we

84
00:04:34,080 --> 00:04:37,960
Speaker 1: simply shifted our thinking about that, developed a program again

85
00:04:38,080 --> 00:04:42,640
Speaker 1: marketing it it really took off. My suspicion today is

86
00:04:42,720 --> 00:04:46,000
Speaker 1: a Sonic does something in xcess to five million dollars

87
00:04:46,000 --> 00:04:49,719
Speaker 1: in ice cream and it's and it's ice cream and drink.

88
00:04:50,080 --> 00:04:53,480
Speaker 1: It's ice cream and drink business. Uh uh. Generally is

89
00:04:53,520 --> 00:04:57,240
Speaker 1: probably more on the order of one point five to

90
00:04:57,440 --> 00:05:00,280
Speaker 1: two big in sales. So it's an enormous part of

91
00:05:00,320 --> 00:05:03,280
Speaker 1: the business that wasn't promoted thirty years ago. And all

92
00:05:03,320 --> 00:05:06,000
Speaker 1: I want right now, Cliff, is like an ice cream Sunday,

93
00:05:06,000 --> 00:05:08,640
Speaker 1: So thank you very much, because I am starving. I

94
00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:14,360
Speaker 1: am starving, so good, stuffy, so interesting. You know, Cliff,

95
00:05:14,680 --> 00:05:19,920
Speaker 1: being a leadership role at a major company, I'm sure

96
00:05:19,920 --> 00:05:22,520
Speaker 1: you've learned a few things when you think about leadership.

97
00:05:22,880 --> 00:05:25,600
Speaker 1: You know, what are the key key pillars for you?

98
00:05:25,640 --> 00:05:30,760
Speaker 1: And are there any leaders that you learned from well,

99
00:05:31,120 --> 00:05:34,840
Speaker 1: so Keith colors that you in terms of leading a group,

100
00:05:35,640 --> 00:05:38,800
Speaker 1: um uh. And I'm going to take these in this order,

101
00:05:38,880 --> 00:05:42,880
Speaker 1: but they're they're equal weighted. One is I think you

102
00:05:43,640 --> 00:05:46,360
Speaker 1: a leader needs to have, you know, a passion for

103
00:05:46,560 --> 00:05:50,120
Speaker 1: the mission of the organization. And if the mission, if

104
00:05:50,160 --> 00:05:52,800
Speaker 1: the leader doesn't have passion, then you know things are

105
00:05:52,839 --> 00:05:56,360
Speaker 1: gonna You're gonna have trouble, but the leader needs to

106
00:05:56,400 --> 00:05:59,080
Speaker 1: have passion for the mission of the organization. And the

107
00:05:59,160 --> 00:06:03,200
Speaker 1: leader needs to have compassion for the people within the organization.

108
00:06:03,760 --> 00:06:07,000
Speaker 1: And if a leader doesn't care about those people and

109
00:06:07,160 --> 00:06:09,800
Speaker 1: want them to be successful, those people are going to

110
00:06:09,880 --> 00:06:12,400
Speaker 1: see through that and they're going to be less loyal

111
00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:14,200
Speaker 1: and they guess not going to stay around as long.

112
00:06:14,279 --> 00:06:16,440
Speaker 1: They're not gonna work as hard to be as committed.

113
00:06:16,880 --> 00:06:20,279
Speaker 1: I think these are two colors that are critical for

114
00:06:20,960 --> 00:06:24,920
Speaker 1: leaders in virtually any position. Well, okay, I'm going to

115
00:06:25,040 --> 00:06:27,240
Speaker 1: go there. I'm probably gonna get yelled at. But we

116
00:06:27,400 --> 00:06:30,960
Speaker 1: have a commander in chief that doesn't seem to have

117
00:06:31,000 --> 00:06:33,520
Speaker 1: a lot of compassion for what's going on in our country.

118
00:06:33,600 --> 00:06:36,800
Speaker 1: I am just curious, you know, And that's not me.

119
00:06:36,960 --> 00:06:39,200
Speaker 1: I think if you read and you talk to people,

120
00:06:39,360 --> 00:06:41,960
Speaker 1: there is certainly that feeling. But I do wonder what

121
00:06:42,000 --> 00:06:45,320
Speaker 1: you make of leadership today, especially at a time of

122
00:06:45,440 --> 00:06:48,920
Speaker 1: crisis and what we say, are you know, dual pandemics

123
00:06:48,960 --> 00:06:52,960
Speaker 1: between the health crisis and then also racism and the

124
00:06:53,000 --> 00:06:58,040
Speaker 1: injustices there in terms of inequalities. Yeah, well, these are

125
00:06:58,160 --> 00:07:02,440
Speaker 1: these are critical and important issue is um uh, Well,

126
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:04,800
Speaker 1: this is it's just lead their critical issues for our

127
00:07:04,800 --> 00:07:09,039
Speaker 1: country and and they're not new issues obviously. The idea

128
00:07:09,600 --> 00:07:13,840
Speaker 1: particularly is her latter point, the equality, uh critical thing

129
00:07:14,040 --> 00:07:18,520
Speaker 1: for our country and its culture. Um traditionally in business

130
00:07:19,240 --> 00:07:22,080
Speaker 1: dominant position that we look at boards and CEO postions

131
00:07:22,160 --> 00:07:26,480
Speaker 1: now still dominant, dominated by white males. That the problem

132
00:07:26,680 --> 00:07:29,360
Speaker 1: problem when that's the case is you're excluding you know,

133
00:07:29,440 --> 00:07:31,840
Speaker 1: pick a number, but roughly you're excluding, you know, three

134
00:07:31,880 --> 00:07:35,440
Speaker 1: quarters of the population, which means you're excluding the talent

135
00:07:35,760 --> 00:07:38,760
Speaker 1: of three quarters of the population. So that that's just

136
00:07:38,800 --> 00:07:41,560
Speaker 1: a hurdle. We we you know, we I think many

137
00:07:41,600 --> 00:07:45,040
Speaker 1: of us thought we were building over but uh, maybe

138
00:07:45,040 --> 00:07:47,800
Speaker 1: we've got some things we still have to work through

139
00:07:47,880 --> 00:07:51,800
Speaker 1: as a as a country and the culture to recognize

140
00:07:51,840 --> 00:07:53,760
Speaker 1: we need a big tent. We need everybody under that

141
00:07:53,800 --> 00:07:57,400
Speaker 1: tent moving the same direction, um as it relates to

142
00:07:57,600 --> 00:08:03,200
Speaker 1: our leader. Um. Uh So, something that you see on

143
00:08:03,280 --> 00:08:07,679
Speaker 1: my website but you don't see on the book. I did. Um.

144
00:08:07,720 --> 00:08:10,600
Speaker 1: I did serve in the Clinton administration in a part

145
00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,440
Speaker 1: time position, and uh and that's kind of been my

146
00:08:14,680 --> 00:08:18,480
Speaker 1: those have been my stripes all my voting life. Uh. So,

147
00:08:18,680 --> 00:08:24,640
Speaker 1: I think that people need to believe that their leader

148
00:08:25,200 --> 00:08:28,800
Speaker 1: once again has that their best interests at heart and

149
00:08:28,880 --> 00:08:32,080
Speaker 1: compassion you know, for their lives, you know, for their

150
00:08:32,160 --> 00:08:35,599
Speaker 1: daily lives. And when they don't feel that way, that

151
00:08:36,120 --> 00:08:38,520
Speaker 1: the gap that opens up there is not gonna it's

152
00:08:38,559 --> 00:08:40,920
Speaker 1: not gonna be healthy for an enterprise, not gonna be

153
00:08:40,920 --> 00:08:45,080
Speaker 1: healthy for a country, and ultimately results in some changes

154
00:08:45,120 --> 00:08:48,400
Speaker 1: in leadership. When you look at leaders that are out there,

155
00:08:48,679 --> 00:08:51,360
Speaker 1: who do you admire or who do you admire you

156
00:08:51,400 --> 00:08:56,440
Speaker 1: know in the past in terms of leaders well, are

157
00:08:56,480 --> 00:09:02,880
Speaker 1: they variety of front uh? Um, That's a that's an

158
00:09:02,920 --> 00:09:08,120
Speaker 1: interesting one. I've always been I've always enjoyed them biographical

159
00:09:08,600 --> 00:09:12,319
Speaker 1: UM reading, you know, I've always enjoyed the history and UM.

160
00:09:12,760 --> 00:09:16,200
Speaker 1: And so as I look back at leaders in the

161
00:09:16,240 --> 00:09:19,040
Speaker 1: United States, I mean it's very easy to look at that,

162
00:09:19,320 --> 00:09:21,040
Speaker 1: you know, coming out of World War Two, because that

163
00:09:21,160 --> 00:09:24,160
Speaker 1: was such an extraordinary period of time. And look at

164
00:09:24,200 --> 00:09:28,960
Speaker 1: the leadership that FDR provided to US, UM through the war.

165
00:09:29,559 --> 00:09:33,320
Speaker 1: Look at the leadership that Eisenhower provided to its as

166
00:09:33,360 --> 00:09:36,680
Speaker 1: a military figure but then also as a political figure.

167
00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,120
Speaker 1: Coming out of the war, Um, things started getting a

168
00:09:40,160 --> 00:09:43,760
Speaker 1: little you know, thin in some ways. Once you get uh,

169
00:09:43,880 --> 00:09:50,240
Speaker 1: sixties seventies, eighties. Um, I think, uh uh, it's a

170
00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,760
Speaker 1: little more challenging. I think the style of leadership that

171
00:09:53,840 --> 00:10:00,520
Speaker 1: Barack Obama brought to the country, his his integrity, the

172
00:10:00,520 --> 00:10:04,160
Speaker 1: way he communicated with us. I have no doubt that

173
00:10:04,200 --> 00:10:10,240
Speaker 1: he cared enormously seeing United United States continued to grant succeeds.

174
00:10:10,960 --> 00:10:14,439
Speaker 1: A wonderful style of leadership that he brought to the country.

175
00:10:15,360 --> 00:10:17,960
Speaker 1: That was Clifford Hudson, former chairman and CEO of Oklahoma

176
00:10:18,000 --> 00:10:21,080
Speaker 1: based Sonic Drive In and Sonic Corporation, spent a long

177
00:10:21,120 --> 00:10:22,959
Speaker 1: time at the company. He's got a new book out,

178
00:10:23,040 --> 00:10:25,360
Speaker 1: Master of None, How Jack of All Trades can still

179
00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:27,760
Speaker 1: reach the top. It's a great story and a great read.

180
00:10:28,240 --> 00:10:30,679
Speaker 1: Or you've been listening to Bloomberg Business Week Extra for

181
00:10:30,800 --> 00:10:33,199
Speaker 1: sure to listen to Bloomberg Business Week Radio, airing live

182
00:10:33,240 --> 00:10:35,480
Speaker 1: Monday through Friday at two pm Wall Street Time on

183
00:10:35,559 --> 00:10:38,960
Speaker 1: Bloomberg Radio. I'm Carol Masser along with Bloomberg's Paul Sweeney.

184
00:10:39,080 --> 00:10:39,880
Speaker 1: This is Bloomberg