1 00:00:05,920 --> 00:00:12,440 Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Why did Lana Clayton allegedly 2 00:00:12,520 --> 00:00:15,680 Speaker 1: poison her husband? It's the common over the counter medicine 3 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:19,040 Speaker 1: used to relieve red or irritated eyes. But this morning, 4 00:00:19,079 --> 00:00:22,200 Speaker 1: investigators say they still have no clear motive as to 5 00:00:22,239 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 1: why fifty two year old Lana Clayton allegedly used eyedrops 6 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:28,800 Speaker 1: to kill her husband of four years, or she did 7 00:00:28,840 --> 00:00:33,000 Speaker 1: admit during interviews with our detectives that she committed the crimes. 8 00:00:33,000 --> 00:00:35,239 Speaker 1: Stephen Clayton was found dead in the four year of 9 00:00:35,280 --> 00:00:38,440 Speaker 1: this eight hundred thousand dollars South Carolina mansion he shared 10 00:00:38,479 --> 00:00:41,680 Speaker 1: with his wife in July. Police say they never suspected 11 00:00:41,680 --> 00:00:45,640 Speaker 1: foul play was involved until toxicology results from his autopsy 12 00:00:45,880 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 1: revealed high levels of tetrahydros lane, the chemical found in 13 00:00:49,760 --> 00:00:54,040 Speaker 1: eyedrops and nasal sprays in his bloodstream. If ingested orally, 14 00:00:54,320 --> 00:00:58,640 Speaker 1: it can cause respiratory failure, seizures, and even coma death 15 00:00:58,680 --> 00:01:02,320 Speaker 1: by eyedrops. I Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank 16 00:01:02,320 --> 00:01:04,160 Speaker 1: you for being with us. You are hearing our friend 17 00:01:04,160 --> 00:01:08,640 Speaker 1: at GMA, Amy Robot. Did a South Carolina woman murder 18 00:01:08,720 --> 00:01:13,319 Speaker 1: her husband by putting eyedrops in his drinking water that's 19 00:01:13,360 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 1: making me look at my bottle of water that sits 20 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 1: by the bed every night in a whole new light 21 00:01:18,959 --> 00:01:22,959 Speaker 1: with me an all star panel. Professor Forensics, Jacksonville State University, 22 00:01:23,000 --> 00:01:27,760 Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Joseph Scott Morgan, 23 00:01:27,920 --> 00:01:32,319 Speaker 1: death investigator, Joining us from New York. Psychologist Karen Stark 24 00:01:32,360 --> 00:01:37,000 Speaker 1: at Karen Stark dot com. Renowned civil and criminal attorney 25 00:01:37,040 --> 00:01:40,640 Speaker 1: in the Tristate area. Jason Oceans Joining me right now. 26 00:01:40,680 --> 00:01:44,280 Speaker 1: Crime online dot Com investigator reporter Dave mac Okay, Let's 27 00:01:44,319 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 1: get right down to it. Did this woman, Lanna Clayton, 28 00:01:48,320 --> 00:01:53,640 Speaker 1: very pretty lady, very pretty? Did she kill her husband? 29 00:01:53,640 --> 00:01:57,720 Speaker 1: Not try to kill him Brett murder him by eyedrop Okay, 30 00:01:57,800 --> 00:02:01,400 Speaker 1: hit me, Dave, what happened to you know what the 31 00:02:01,440 --> 00:02:04,920 Speaker 1: police are saying. She actually confessed to them that she 32 00:02:05,160 --> 00:02:08,919 Speaker 1: used the eye drops to kill her husband. But it's 33 00:02:09,000 --> 00:02:11,040 Speaker 1: kind of interesting when you look back at this relationship. 34 00:02:11,080 --> 00:02:13,920 Speaker 1: There were a very very wealthy couple. None of the 35 00:02:14,000 --> 00:02:17,640 Speaker 1: neighbors had any clue anything was going on, but there 36 00:02:17,720 --> 00:02:20,320 Speaker 1: were a couple of incidents that took place, and on 37 00:02:20,400 --> 00:02:23,760 Speaker 1: top of anything else, when Stephen Clayton's body was found. 38 00:02:24,000 --> 00:02:26,840 Speaker 1: He was actually found at the bottom of the stairs, 39 00:02:27,080 --> 00:02:29,839 Speaker 1: making it look like he had had an accidental fall. Well, 40 00:02:29,919 --> 00:02:32,799 Speaker 1: Dave mac Dave mac uh, hold on, I'm going to 41 00:02:32,840 --> 00:02:35,800 Speaker 1: speak for Jason Oceans defense attorining just one moment, Jason, 42 00:02:36,080 --> 00:02:40,079 Speaker 1: can't Dave Matt clearly see that this guy had vision problems. 43 00:02:40,400 --> 00:02:42,200 Speaker 1: That's why he had the eyedrops, That's why he fell 44 00:02:42,240 --> 00:02:45,280 Speaker 1: down the stairs. Jason, It's so clear to me his 45 00:02:45,440 --> 00:02:47,720 Speaker 1: eyes were so red he needed to clear them with 46 00:02:47,880 --> 00:02:55,280 Speaker 1: gallons of vic If you will, uns, did you just 47 00:02:55,320 --> 00:02:57,840 Speaker 1: call me Nan? Wait a minute, did you just call 48 00:02:57,880 --> 00:03:01,160 Speaker 1: me Nan? Because please don't do that and the worst 49 00:03:01,200 --> 00:03:04,959 Speaker 1: would be honey or sugar or just just don't okay, 50 00:03:04,960 --> 00:03:10,800 Speaker 1: please now continue. It just shocks me that most of 51 00:03:10,800 --> 00:03:14,440 Speaker 1: the time when these things occur, there's some inklings within 52 00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:19,880 Speaker 1: the community somewhere that uh, something's going. It's just not 53 00:03:20,000 --> 00:03:23,280 Speaker 1: just out of the clear blue. But well, we'll hold on. 54 00:03:23,600 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: I think you're right. I think you're right. Jason Ocean's 55 00:03:26,440 --> 00:03:29,440 Speaker 1: renowned defense attorney. And the Tri State area. You know, 56 00:03:29,480 --> 00:03:31,920 Speaker 1: every time I say the Tri State area, Jackie, what 57 00:03:32,040 --> 00:03:38,880 Speaker 1: is the cartoon? Um? Okay, yeah, it's not phibious it's Phinniss. 58 00:03:39,040 --> 00:03:43,200 Speaker 1: It's finishing for her. Yeah, and the tries and Professor Duseldorf, 59 00:03:43,720 --> 00:03:45,800 Speaker 1: thank you, thank you so much. I'm glad you knew that, 60 00:03:46,160 --> 00:03:47,920 Speaker 1: you know, Karen Start, I want to talk about what 61 00:03:47,920 --> 00:03:51,520 Speaker 1: he just said about red flags. This couple. Hold on, 62 00:03:51,600 --> 00:03:53,040 Speaker 1: Dave Matt, what did they do for a living? I 63 00:03:53,080 --> 00:03:55,560 Speaker 1: know you said they were wealthy, which always makes me suspicious, 64 00:03:55,560 --> 00:03:57,880 Speaker 1: But what do they do for a living? She worried 65 00:03:57,920 --> 00:04:01,440 Speaker 1: for the va a nurse, but he actually his success 66 00:04:01,480 --> 00:04:05,560 Speaker 1: came from founding physical therapy resources. They've got branches all 67 00:04:05,600 --> 00:04:08,240 Speaker 1: across the country, so actually dealing with people that are 68 00:04:08,240 --> 00:04:10,480 Speaker 1: recovering from injuries and things like that. Okay, you know 69 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:12,520 Speaker 1: I have a one track mind, Dave Matt, because when 70 00:04:12,560 --> 00:04:16,000 Speaker 1: you said she's a nurse, I heard nothing else. It 71 00:04:16,080 --> 00:04:18,520 Speaker 1: was like Nancy, she's a nurse, blah blah blah blah 72 00:04:18,560 --> 00:04:21,880 Speaker 1: blah blah blah. So, Karen Start, if I see medical 73 00:04:21,920 --> 00:04:25,400 Speaker 1: training and then this guy dies and police suspects she 74 00:04:26,440 --> 00:04:29,680 Speaker 1: committed murdered bike, I drop. But back to what Jason 75 00:04:29,720 --> 00:04:33,000 Speaker 1: Ocean's defense attorney was saying, Karen Start, Let's see a 76 00:04:33,120 --> 00:04:36,000 Speaker 1: red flag like um shooting him with a crossbow in 77 00:04:36,080 --> 00:04:40,760 Speaker 1: his sleep. They did have a little bit of a history. Yes, yeah, 78 00:04:40,880 --> 00:04:44,520 Speaker 1: was it in the head? The guy wasn't he asleep 79 00:04:44,600 --> 00:04:46,640 Speaker 1: and she shot him with a crossbow in his sleep? 80 00:04:46,760 --> 00:04:50,560 Speaker 1: Karen Start, Yes, she did, Nancy. She shot him in 81 00:04:50,640 --> 00:04:55,200 Speaker 1: the head while he was sleeping, and it was he 82 00:04:55,279 --> 00:04:58,200 Speaker 1: in the bedroom. Okay. Jackie's saying yes, because I was 83 00:04:58,240 --> 00:05:02,480 Speaker 1: thinking he was outside in a hammock near her archery course. 84 00:05:02,839 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 1: And heyby, but how do you accidentally, Karen Start, shoot 85 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,920 Speaker 1: somebody in their sleep in the head with a crossbow 86 00:05:10,240 --> 00:05:14,479 Speaker 1: in the bedroom and say it was an accident, Karen, 87 00:05:14,640 --> 00:05:18,320 Speaker 1: I mean she was practicing the crossbow on the television. 88 00:05:19,720 --> 00:05:22,440 Speaker 1: I don't know, okay, Joe Scott Morgan. How do you 89 00:05:22,520 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 1: survive a crossbow to the head. That's a mystery. A 90 00:05:28,440 --> 00:05:30,640 Speaker 1: lot of that, Nancy is going to be depended upon 91 00:05:30,800 --> 00:05:34,080 Speaker 1: where the shot rested. If it went kind of obliquely 92 00:05:34,080 --> 00:05:36,359 Speaker 1: on the side of the head, maybe just struck the temple, 93 00:05:37,440 --> 00:05:41,479 Speaker 1: the side of the temple ahead. It's a survivable injury. 94 00:05:41,160 --> 00:05:44,800 Speaker 1: My question is, was the bolt or that's what they 95 00:05:44,880 --> 00:05:48,000 Speaker 1: referred to as the arrow in crossbows, was a bolt 96 00:05:48,080 --> 00:05:50,800 Speaker 1: still lodged in his head? And how in the world 97 00:05:50,839 --> 00:05:52,920 Speaker 1: that go about extracting this thing. Did you have to 98 00:05:53,000 --> 00:05:55,960 Speaker 1: undergo major surgery? That'd be a great question to ask, 99 00:05:56,040 --> 00:05:57,719 Speaker 1: you know, Joe Scott, are you one of those people 100 00:05:58,000 --> 00:06:00,240 Speaker 1: like me that when you see an article they have 101 00:06:00,240 --> 00:06:04,680 Speaker 1: an X ray and you can still see that the 102 00:06:04,880 --> 00:06:08,960 Speaker 1: knife or the arrow or whatever in the person. You 103 00:06:09,040 --> 00:06:11,760 Speaker 1: just look at it and think, how in the hay 104 00:06:11,920 --> 00:06:15,120 Speaker 1: did that happen? Not you know whether they lived or not, 105 00:06:15,400 --> 00:06:17,960 Speaker 1: how did this happen? I think back, how in the 106 00:06:18,000 --> 00:06:21,400 Speaker 1: world did that get And here we've got a crossbow 107 00:06:21,440 --> 00:06:23,000 Speaker 1: to the head. As a matter of fact, listen to this. 108 00:06:23,160 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 1: The woman accused of poisoning her husband with eyedrops once 109 00:06:26,760 --> 00:06:29,520 Speaker 1: shot him in the back of the head with a crossbow. 110 00:06:30,160 --> 00:06:33,720 Speaker 1: Police have reopened an investigation into the bizarre incident at 111 00:06:33,720 --> 00:06:36,600 Speaker 1: the home of millionaire Stephen Clayton and its fifty two 112 00:06:36,640 --> 00:06:39,800 Speaker 1: year old wife, Lana. Two years ago. Lana Clayton told 113 00:06:39,839 --> 00:06:43,120 Speaker 1: police she was having trouble loading a crossbow like this one. 114 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:45,680 Speaker 1: She says, she took it into the bedroom where her 115 00:06:45,760 --> 00:06:49,880 Speaker 1: husband was sleeping. Then, she claimed it accidentally went off 116 00:06:50,200 --> 00:06:53,320 Speaker 1: and this called a bolt struck him in the back 117 00:06:53,320 --> 00:06:57,120 Speaker 1: of the head. Miraculously he was not seriously hurt. The 118 00:06:57,200 --> 00:06:59,880 Speaker 1: stock itself is going to go into your shoulder. Crossbow 119 00:07:00,000 --> 00:07:04,720 Speaker 1: expert Nanny CIRCA Safety and fire, you would have to 120 00:07:04,760 --> 00:07:07,520 Speaker 1: manually push up to the fire position and then this 121 00:07:07,640 --> 00:07:10,360 Speaker 1: finger could come down to the trailer. Got it. So 122 00:07:10,440 --> 00:07:13,640 Speaker 1: if you're walking around carrying this and you don't move 123 00:07:13,680 --> 00:07:15,680 Speaker 1: this button, there's no way it could go on, never 124 00:07:15,760 --> 00:07:20,640 Speaker 1: go off. According to documents obtained by Inside Edition, Stephen 125 00:07:20,680 --> 00:07:23,760 Speaker 1: Clayton told detectives he did not believe she was trying 126 00:07:23,760 --> 00:07:27,200 Speaker 1: to kill him. The incident was ruled an accident. Okay, 127 00:07:27,280 --> 00:07:30,400 Speaker 1: you know my children, Jason Oshans. You know my children 128 00:07:30,480 --> 00:07:34,360 Speaker 1: very well since before they were born, because we would 129 00:07:34,440 --> 00:07:36,800 Speaker 1: sit on the set at Court TV and talk and 130 00:07:36,840 --> 00:07:39,280 Speaker 1: talk and talk about should I get married, should I 131 00:07:39,320 --> 00:07:41,080 Speaker 1: have children? Oh, I don't know how you did it. 132 00:07:41,520 --> 00:07:46,720 Speaker 1: But this past week they were at Scout camp. And 133 00:07:46,840 --> 00:07:48,840 Speaker 1: you know, of course, when I hear camp, not just 134 00:07:48,920 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 1: Scout camp, any camp sleepaway, I think murdering, molestation. So 135 00:07:53,280 --> 00:07:55,920 Speaker 1: I suddenly had to become a Scout volunteer and forced 136 00:07:55,960 --> 00:07:59,440 Speaker 1: my husband to become a Scout volunteer. What killed him 137 00:07:59,440 --> 00:08:01,880 Speaker 1: as being away from work for a week anyway, we 138 00:08:02,000 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 1: both go, we camp out. It rained in the tent. 139 00:08:04,400 --> 00:08:07,480 Speaker 1: All that's another story. But my son, who you know, 140 00:08:07,520 --> 00:08:12,400 Speaker 1: a very anti gun, had to learn to shoot a shotgun. 141 00:08:12,440 --> 00:08:16,040 Speaker 1: So he was at this range every day. Let me 142 00:08:16,080 --> 00:08:19,120 Speaker 1: just point out that he ended up getting the dime Award, 143 00:08:19,320 --> 00:08:23,360 Speaker 1: which is you can shoot at fifty feet five shots 144 00:08:23,440 --> 00:08:27,240 Speaker 1: in the space of a dime the coin. Okay, So 145 00:08:27,920 --> 00:08:30,040 Speaker 1: but the other side of that is I was so 146 00:08:30,720 --> 00:08:33,040 Speaker 1: upset about him with a gun in his hands. I 147 00:08:33,080 --> 00:08:35,280 Speaker 1: went there every day. It was like a mile walk. 148 00:08:35,760 --> 00:08:38,800 Speaker 1: One day I walked thirty two eight hundred steps. I 149 00:08:38,840 --> 00:08:43,040 Speaker 1: took a picture of it. Anyway, So my point is, 150 00:08:43,080 --> 00:08:48,560 Speaker 1: beside that is the archery range. How do you accidentally 151 00:08:48,960 --> 00:08:52,520 Speaker 1: pull a crossbow and shoot somebody? I mean the power, 152 00:08:52,880 --> 00:08:55,520 Speaker 1: it's like a trigger pull. I would tell Jerry's how 153 00:08:55,559 --> 00:08:58,520 Speaker 1: many pounds, Well, how much pressure it took to pull 154 00:08:58,520 --> 00:09:01,640 Speaker 1: a trigger? Yea, the test poundage right, and you can 155 00:09:01,640 --> 00:09:04,839 Speaker 1: go up to you know, eighty pounds, which almost only 156 00:09:05,120 --> 00:09:08,959 Speaker 1: a bare could pull with great strength. So some of 157 00:09:09,000 --> 00:09:11,160 Speaker 1: them are much lighter to the finger. And I think 158 00:09:11,200 --> 00:09:14,600 Speaker 1: anyone knows who's involved in anything that could be dangerous, 159 00:09:14,600 --> 00:09:19,079 Speaker 1: whether it's a bow archery, the possession of weapons, shooting. 160 00:09:20,120 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: You don't do it in the bedroom. You're always alone 161 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,360 Speaker 1: and private and safe and well lit and not with 162 00:09:26,440 --> 00:09:31,600 Speaker 1: anyone around at all. So it's just poor safety and 163 00:09:31,720 --> 00:09:35,280 Speaker 1: poor practice. I don't even know what you're saying poor safety, 164 00:09:35,640 --> 00:09:38,320 Speaker 1: but I mean, Joe Scott, can you talk some sense 165 00:09:38,360 --> 00:09:43,520 Speaker 1: into his hand, Nancy, Safety procedures dictate that you don't 166 00:09:43,520 --> 00:09:46,040 Speaker 1: do that with other people around. You're not involved in 167 00:09:46,440 --> 00:09:50,400 Speaker 1: testing or trying or doing anything. It's a poor safety protocol. Okay, 168 00:09:50,559 --> 00:09:53,160 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, let's just break it down. She shot him 169 00:09:53,200 --> 00:09:55,480 Speaker 1: in the head with a crossbow and for some reason 170 00:09:55,640 --> 00:09:57,760 Speaker 1: which we're gonna have to have a shrink explain. He 171 00:09:58,760 --> 00:10:16,480 Speaker 1: convinced himself it was an accident. Crime stories with Nancy Grace. 172 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:21,720 Speaker 1: During our search of the home, we found several bottles 173 00:10:21,840 --> 00:10:25,800 Speaker 1: of the eye drops. Police say Clayton admitted to poisoning 174 00:10:25,800 --> 00:10:28,200 Speaker 1: her husband's water with the drops over the course of 175 00:10:28,320 --> 00:10:31,800 Speaker 1: three days before his death. Neighbors sat Clayton, an active 176 00:10:31,840 --> 00:10:34,760 Speaker 1: member of her local church, held her husband's funeral in 177 00:10:34,800 --> 00:10:38,640 Speaker 1: their very own backyard last month before investigators determined his 178 00:10:38,679 --> 00:10:42,400 Speaker 1: cause of death this morning. Clayton remains behind bars without bond, 179 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:47,120 Speaker 1: facing murder and unlawful tampering of food charges. Her husband's 180 00:10:47,120 --> 00:10:50,320 Speaker 1: family speaking out, telling ABC News they are shocked and 181 00:10:50,480 --> 00:10:53,439 Speaker 1: mortified at the cause of Stephen's death. All of our 182 00:10:53,480 --> 00:10:55,600 Speaker 1: family and friends knew how much he loved his wife, 183 00:10:55,679 --> 00:10:58,920 Speaker 1: Laana and how devoted he was to her. Such a 184 00:10:58,960 --> 00:11:01,680 Speaker 1: shocking story, and under South Carolina law in this case 185 00:11:01,800 --> 00:11:05,000 Speaker 1: qualifies for the death penalty, but prosecutors say it is 186 00:11:05,040 --> 00:11:07,360 Speaker 1: far too early to decide whether to seek that against 187 00:11:07,480 --> 00:11:11,920 Speaker 1: Lana Clayton. Hearing our friend GMA's Amy Robot. Wow, Okay, 188 00:11:11,920 --> 00:11:14,760 Speaker 1: back to you, Joe Scott Morgan. We are talking about 189 00:11:14,920 --> 00:11:20,880 Speaker 1: women who poison, and we're starting with Lana Clayton. Lana 190 00:11:20,960 --> 00:11:25,160 Speaker 1: Clayton with a background and nursing. Her husband apparently the 191 00:11:25,240 --> 00:11:31,680 Speaker 1: money man with many many branches of a healthcare facility. First, 192 00:11:31,760 --> 00:11:33,520 Speaker 1: she shoots him with a crossbow in the head while 193 00:11:33,559 --> 00:11:36,360 Speaker 1: he's asleep in his bedroom. He didn't fall asleep in 194 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:38,840 Speaker 1: a lounge chair in the backyard or a hammock near 195 00:11:38,880 --> 00:11:42,719 Speaker 1: her archery set. Mmmmm. She was practicing the crossbow in 196 00:11:42,760 --> 00:11:46,760 Speaker 1: the bedroom and for some reason. Karen Stark New York 197 00:11:46,840 --> 00:11:49,400 Speaker 1: Psychologists joining us, you can find her at Karen Stark 198 00:11:49,480 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 1: dot com. He convinced himself that that was an accident. 199 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:58,319 Speaker 1: How do you do that. That's called denial. That's denial, Nancy. 200 00:11:58,440 --> 00:12:02,839 Speaker 1: That's somebody who really does someone to admit that this 201 00:12:03,040 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 1: love that they had between them is actually dangerous and 202 00:12:06,480 --> 00:12:10,160 Speaker 1: he could be good. He's so attached to her that 203 00:12:10,320 --> 00:12:12,640 Speaker 1: he's going to go along with some kind of story 204 00:12:13,480 --> 00:12:17,719 Speaker 1: that includes she accidentally killed him in the bedroom. It 205 00:12:17,800 --> 00:12:23,560 Speaker 1: doesn't make any sense, I k Karen. Karen, Yeah, I 206 00:12:23,720 --> 00:12:28,200 Speaker 1: know that you are a sophisticated, cosmopolitan New Yorker, but 207 00:12:28,480 --> 00:12:31,200 Speaker 1: I assume that you, like everybody else in the country, 208 00:12:31,280 --> 00:12:35,120 Speaker 1: listens to country music. I'm sure you've heard the song 209 00:12:35,240 --> 00:12:38,440 Speaker 1: denial it Ain't just a river in Egypt, because you 210 00:12:38,480 --> 00:12:40,320 Speaker 1: may want to use that with some of your clients, 211 00:12:40,360 --> 00:12:43,640 Speaker 1: your patients. How do you get yourself in such deep 212 00:12:43,840 --> 00:12:47,920 Speaker 1: denial that you can reason away getting shot in the 213 00:12:47,920 --> 00:12:51,000 Speaker 1: head with a crossbow in your bedroom in your sleep. Well, 214 00:12:51,080 --> 00:12:54,040 Speaker 1: there's a disconnect, Nancy, when there's something that you believe 215 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:57,920 Speaker 1: so strongly, and then there's evidence to show you that 216 00:12:58,360 --> 00:13:02,000 Speaker 1: it's not true, but your mind can't grasp that fact, 217 00:13:02,360 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 1: and so our unconscious just says, oh, no, she's right, 218 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:09,280 Speaker 1: it was an accident. Because you can't make the two 219 00:13:09,320 --> 00:13:12,200 Speaker 1: things connect. You have to believe that she's in love 220 00:13:12,240 --> 00:13:15,319 Speaker 1: with you, and that's unsure what happened to him. He 221 00:13:15,360 --> 00:13:18,320 Speaker 1: could not accept the fact that she was trying to 222 00:13:18,400 --> 00:13:21,680 Speaker 1: kill him. I know it sounds very strange, but happens 223 00:13:21,840 --> 00:13:24,000 Speaker 1: all the time. It does sound strange, and I think 224 00:13:24,040 --> 00:13:28,080 Speaker 1: it does happen all the time. Joseph Scott Morgan, author 225 00:13:28,160 --> 00:13:31,959 Speaker 1: of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon. Death investigator Joe 226 00:13:32,000 --> 00:13:35,920 Speaker 1: Scott two things. Number One, unlike a gun where you 227 00:13:35,920 --> 00:13:39,360 Speaker 1: can tell from gunshop how to residue whether it was 228 00:13:39,400 --> 00:13:42,920 Speaker 1: shot within say three ft thirty six inches, or if 229 00:13:42,960 --> 00:13:45,880 Speaker 1: they're stippling around the entry wound, you know, if it's 230 00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:49,200 Speaker 1: point blank with a crossbow, you don't know. She was 231 00:13:49,400 --> 00:13:51,520 Speaker 1: two inches from his head when she shot it. Asked 232 00:13:51,559 --> 00:13:55,640 Speaker 1: my first question, and the second question is what does 233 00:13:55,960 --> 00:14:00,920 Speaker 1: odan over Joe sing on eyedrops to your body? How 234 00:14:01,000 --> 00:14:03,480 Speaker 1: is it? I think I know the answer in lay 235 00:14:03,520 --> 00:14:06,680 Speaker 1: person's terms. If it shrinks red vessels in your eyes, 236 00:14:07,240 --> 00:14:10,200 Speaker 1: it must shrink the veins to your heart. Just guessing 237 00:14:10,480 --> 00:14:13,679 Speaker 1: you tell me. Yeah. First off to the crossbow you're 238 00:14:13,760 --> 00:14:15,920 Speaker 1: right on the money. Hey, you're right on target. Nancy, 239 00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,640 Speaker 1: There is no way. It's what we refer to as 240 00:14:19,640 --> 00:14:23,760 Speaker 1: an indeterminate distance. You can't because, as you stated, there's 241 00:14:23,840 --> 00:14:26,960 Speaker 1: nothing coming out of a muzzle. Now to the eye drops, 242 00:14:27,240 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: think about it in two terms. There's two things. There's 243 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:33,840 Speaker 1: what's referred to as a vasodilator, which means that opens 244 00:14:33,880 --> 00:14:37,680 Speaker 1: the vessels up. And there is a vaso constrictor. In 245 00:14:37,680 --> 00:14:41,760 Speaker 1: the case of tetrahydralazine, which is found in all manner 246 00:14:41,840 --> 00:14:46,440 Speaker 1: of eye drops and even some sprays that are used 247 00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:51,080 Speaker 1: in the nostrils, it is a vaso constrictor. And so 248 00:14:51,320 --> 00:14:54,480 Speaker 1: what happens is is it tightens down the vessels and 249 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:59,400 Speaker 1: it can lead to hypertension, severe hypertension, very very quickly. 250 00:14:59,480 --> 00:15:03,560 Speaker 1: This is a highly lethal, lethal substance and it doesn't 251 00:15:03,560 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: take very much. It just takes a very small amount 252 00:15:06,720 --> 00:15:09,480 Speaker 1: and it can literally send the individual, in worst case 253 00:15:09,480 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: scenario into a coma. Some people out there even have 254 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,720 Speaker 1: attempted to use this drug in order to initiate date rate. 255 00:15:18,520 --> 00:15:20,960 Speaker 1: That means it gets the person into an unconscious state, 256 00:15:20,960 --> 00:15:23,200 Speaker 1: they fall to coma, and they can take advantage of 257 00:15:23,240 --> 00:15:27,920 Speaker 1: the individual. Wow, I'm also like completely intrigued with the 258 00:15:27,960 --> 00:15:33,600 Speaker 1: fact that she held the funeral in the backyard. Jason Oceans, 259 00:15:33,600 --> 00:15:35,400 Speaker 1: I thought that was against the law. I'm not sure 260 00:15:35,440 --> 00:15:37,960 Speaker 1: which state this was in, Nancy. You'd have to refresh 261 00:15:38,040 --> 00:15:42,960 Speaker 1: me on that. South Carolina, South Carolina, Wait, Dave Dave 262 00:15:43,040 --> 00:15:46,120 Speaker 1: Mattcrime online dot Com investigative reporter. Did she hold the 263 00:15:46,160 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 1: funeral in the backyard or did she want to hold 264 00:15:48,280 --> 00:15:50,840 Speaker 1: the funeral in the backyard, because I am totally burying 265 00:15:50,880 --> 00:15:54,400 Speaker 1: David in the backyard. What she did bury him in 266 00:15:54,440 --> 00:15:56,520 Speaker 1: the backyard. The funeral was held in the backyard in 267 00:15:57,080 --> 00:15:59,400 Speaker 1: North Carolina and South Carolina. I don't know how many 268 00:15:59,400 --> 00:16:02,120 Speaker 1: other states both of those allow for that. There are 269 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,920 Speaker 1: certain things, certain accommodations after you made but not as 270 00:16:06,000 --> 00:16:08,280 Speaker 1: uncommon as you would think. Okay, I'm just drinking that in. 271 00:16:08,440 --> 00:16:12,000 Speaker 1: I'm trying to absorb that that. Yeah, dis Nancy, just 272 00:16:12,520 --> 00:16:15,560 Speaker 1: just thinking about wanting to exhume the body for anything. 273 00:16:15,600 --> 00:16:18,240 Speaker 1: I mean, just just thinking the restrictions to you know, 274 00:16:18,800 --> 00:16:23,320 Speaker 1: my backyard or access or anything else that could you 275 00:16:23,520 --> 00:16:27,440 Speaker 1: alter the state of the body. I did not know 276 00:16:27,600 --> 00:16:31,200 Speaker 1: you could just bury a body. I don't remember as 277 00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,360 Speaker 1: a little girl I hear you, Joe Scott. Way out 278 00:16:35,040 --> 00:16:38,120 Speaker 1: in the country, we would drive by a house getting 279 00:16:38,320 --> 00:16:42,440 Speaker 1: back and forth to somewhere, and a guy had buried 280 00:16:42,880 --> 00:16:45,760 Speaker 1: made a cemetery in his yard because his wife died. 281 00:16:45,920 --> 00:16:48,880 Speaker 1: He was completely well, we thank you, as completely in love, 282 00:16:49,200 --> 00:16:51,200 Speaker 1: and he had built kind of a monument to her 283 00:16:51,320 --> 00:16:53,280 Speaker 1: with a raw arm fence around her grave, and he 284 00:16:53,280 --> 00:16:54,880 Speaker 1: would go out there and sit with her every day, 285 00:16:54,920 --> 00:16:58,120 Speaker 1: kind of like Forrest Gump. Okay, and even as a 286 00:16:58,120 --> 00:17:00,800 Speaker 1: little girl, I would like sh ink away in the 287 00:17:00,840 --> 00:17:02,880 Speaker 1: back seat of the car when we chose by, because 288 00:17:02,920 --> 00:17:07,800 Speaker 1: something was just wrong with it. Okay, So Joe Scott Morgan, 289 00:17:07,920 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: she shoots him with the crossbow, he lives, she allegedly 290 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,119 Speaker 1: poisons him with eyedrops, he dies, and then she just 291 00:17:16,320 --> 00:17:18,000 Speaker 1: digs a hole and sticks him in the backyard. Can 292 00:17:18,080 --> 00:17:20,760 Speaker 1: nobody see that pattern right there? Is it just me 293 00:17:20,960 --> 00:17:23,959 Speaker 1: that something's very wrong? Well, you know again, you know 294 00:17:23,960 --> 00:17:27,679 Speaker 1: what Jason was saying. You want to maintain control. And 295 00:17:27,720 --> 00:17:29,560 Speaker 1: I think that this goes to this. This might be 296 00:17:29,600 --> 00:17:31,840 Speaker 1: an issue to care and could address. But I gotta 297 00:17:31,880 --> 00:17:34,639 Speaker 1: tell you, as far as burying somebody, there's family plots 298 00:17:34,680 --> 00:17:38,280 Speaker 1: all over the place, and This is the reality. The 299 00:17:38,320 --> 00:17:41,399 Speaker 1: only thing you need is actually a burial permit. And 300 00:17:42,280 --> 00:17:45,960 Speaker 1: this is another curious thing. If I remember correctly, I'm 301 00:17:45,960 --> 00:17:49,639 Speaker 1: thinking that bodies do not have to be embalmed. You 302 00:17:49,680 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 1: can literally place the body directly into the crypt after 303 00:17:52,800 --> 00:17:56,439 Speaker 1: it's been dugged. Only consideration or things like we're referred 304 00:17:56,440 --> 00:17:58,480 Speaker 1: to as water tables. You don't want to pollute the 305 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:01,280 Speaker 1: water table by burying the body back there. So other 306 00:18:01,280 --> 00:18:03,960 Speaker 1: than that, hey, it's free and clear. Take a listen 307 00:18:03,960 --> 00:18:07,119 Speaker 1: to our friend at Inside Edition, Megan Alexander. The couple 308 00:18:07,160 --> 00:18:10,320 Speaker 1: lived in an enclave of million dollar homes on Lake Wiley, 309 00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:14,119 Speaker 1: South Carolina. The funeral was held in the backyard before 310 00:18:14,160 --> 00:18:18,560 Speaker 1: toxicology reports showed he had been poisoned. Frank Keith and 311 00:18:18,720 --> 00:18:21,960 Speaker 1: Ken Sandford were at the funeral. She's saying a stoic, 312 00:18:22,040 --> 00:18:25,719 Speaker 1: I guess is a word. There was no evidence that 313 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:29,920 Speaker 1: she was grieving. That's part of the mystery of all 314 00:18:30,000 --> 00:18:33,679 Speaker 1: of this. He always appeared to be happy, go lucky, 315 00:18:35,000 --> 00:18:38,960 Speaker 1: grateful for his success, grateful to be alive, grateful to 316 00:18:39,000 --> 00:18:41,840 Speaker 1: be in the community. And that's all the more reason 317 00:18:41,920 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 1: it's so stunning to us. Crime story with Nancy Grace 318 00:19:05,240 --> 00:19:07,960 Speaker 1: if she revealed that she used the liquid, which is 319 00:19:08,000 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: normally like eye drops, put it in his food, and 320 00:19:10,600 --> 00:19:13,639 Speaker 1: she did that without his knowledge, we don't have a 321 00:19:13,720 --> 00:19:18,440 Speaker 1: clear cut reason why she committed the crime that she did. 322 00:19:18,880 --> 00:19:23,000 Speaker 1: We are talking about women who poison and we're starting 323 00:19:23,080 --> 00:19:29,119 Speaker 1: with Lana Clayton. Lana Clayton, where they put a background 324 00:19:29,160 --> 00:19:32,919 Speaker 1: and nursing her husband apparently the money man with many 325 00:19:33,080 --> 00:19:39,000 Speaker 1: many branches of a healthcare facility. First, she shoots him 326 00:19:39,000 --> 00:19:41,040 Speaker 1: with a crossbow in the head while he's asleep in 327 00:19:41,160 --> 00:19:44,040 Speaker 1: his bedroom. He didn't fall asleep in a lounge chair 328 00:19:44,080 --> 00:19:47,840 Speaker 1: in the backyard or a hammock near her archery set. Mmmmm, 329 00:19:48,400 --> 00:19:51,200 Speaker 1: she was practicing the crossbow in the bedroom. And Nancy, 330 00:19:51,320 --> 00:19:53,919 Speaker 1: before we go much further, I gotta point to something. 331 00:19:54,240 --> 00:19:56,840 Speaker 1: You know, motive hasn't been discussed really, and I know 332 00:19:56,920 --> 00:19:59,600 Speaker 1: you say that, you know, prosecutors don't have to prove motive, 333 00:19:59,680 --> 00:20:02,680 Speaker 1: but everybody wants to know what a motive is here 334 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:07,160 Speaker 1: because you've got somebody who seemingly is happily married, very 335 00:20:07,280 --> 00:20:09,359 Speaker 1: very well off, living in a beautiful home with a 336 00:20:09,480 --> 00:20:12,239 Speaker 1: rich husband. And the neighbor said that, you know, they 337 00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:15,200 Speaker 1: didn't see anything wrong. She led a Bible study every week. 338 00:20:15,560 --> 00:20:18,240 Speaker 1: But check this out. We know that she's accused of 339 00:20:18,320 --> 00:20:20,840 Speaker 1: killing him with eye drops. We know that a couple 340 00:20:20,840 --> 00:20:24,400 Speaker 1: of years ago she got out of an attempted murder 341 00:20:24,480 --> 00:20:26,439 Speaker 1: charge because they claimed it was an accident when she 342 00:20:26,760 --> 00:20:30,440 Speaker 1: somehow shot her husband while he was asleep in bed 343 00:20:30,560 --> 00:20:33,439 Speaker 1: in the back of the head with a crossbow, something 344 00:20:33,480 --> 00:20:35,760 Speaker 1: that after we examined the type of crossbow she had, 345 00:20:36,080 --> 00:20:40,920 Speaker 1: was an impossibility. It doesn't accidentally fire. So even though 346 00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:42,480 Speaker 1: he you know, the police said, hey, do you think 347 00:20:42,480 --> 00:20:44,480 Speaker 1: your wife was trying to kill you? And he goes, no, man, 348 00:20:44,720 --> 00:20:46,800 Speaker 1: it's an accident. She loves me, I love her, and 349 00:20:46,840 --> 00:20:50,040 Speaker 1: by the way, everybody we talked to he was in 350 00:20:50,080 --> 00:20:52,000 Speaker 1: love with her. We're talking about when a man loves 351 00:20:52,000 --> 00:20:55,359 Speaker 1: a woman. Here, you know, Percy a Sledge and you 352 00:20:55,400 --> 00:20:56,960 Speaker 1: know when a man loves a woman, she can do 353 00:20:57,040 --> 00:21:00,280 Speaker 1: no wrong. Well, this woman did some serious wrong trying 354 00:21:00,280 --> 00:21:02,000 Speaker 1: to kill him with a crossbows and killing him with 355 00:21:02,359 --> 00:21:05,439 Speaker 1: with the eye drops. But back up a little bit 356 00:21:05,440 --> 00:21:08,200 Speaker 1: and you'll find out that in a previous marriage there 357 00:21:08,280 --> 00:21:11,080 Speaker 1: was a problem and on social media, on Facebook in particular, 358 00:21:11,119 --> 00:21:15,000 Speaker 1: she actually posted a defense of that husband back years ago. Oh, 359 00:21:15,080 --> 00:21:19,160 Speaker 1: he's not a drunk, he's not violent. And she gets 360 00:21:19,200 --> 00:21:21,600 Speaker 1: out of that marriage and finds a guy who's self 361 00:21:21,640 --> 00:21:25,200 Speaker 1: made millionaire. They've got this beautiful, huge house, so big, 362 00:21:25,240 --> 00:21:27,840 Speaker 1: in fact, the yard so manicured that she could bury 363 00:21:27,920 --> 00:21:31,320 Speaker 1: him in the backyard. Now this nurse at the VA 364 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:36,639 Speaker 1: becomes the wealthy widower of a multi millionaire. So my 365 00:21:36,800 --> 00:21:43,640 Speaker 1: question is to Jason Ocean's New York attorney, if she 366 00:21:44,119 --> 00:21:48,640 Speaker 1: confesses to police that she poised her husband, what can 367 00:21:48,840 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 1: Lanna Clayton expect when she goes to trial. I don't 368 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:58,159 Speaker 1: know if this is the death penalty type of case, 369 00:21:59,640 --> 00:22:05,480 Speaker 1: but why why why why? It's it's a long planned, 370 00:22:05,640 --> 00:22:11,080 Speaker 1: premeditated and practiced crib I understand, I don't Uh, and 371 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: just it's a gut feel sometimes on you know where 372 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,040 Speaker 1: it's going to go better? Uh, and just might as 373 00:22:17,080 --> 00:22:19,199 Speaker 1: well wait wait, wait just a minute. Did you just 374 00:22:19,240 --> 00:22:21,440 Speaker 1: say you're going to decide if somebody gets the death 375 00:22:21,480 --> 00:22:24,800 Speaker 1: penalty based on a quote? Get feel? You know what? 376 00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:26,840 Speaker 1: I'm gonna go to a different guess, Dave mat because 377 00:22:27,440 --> 00:22:30,240 Speaker 1: are they are they seeking that you did it? You said? 378 00:22:30,359 --> 00:22:35,160 Speaker 1: Nan again? M yeah, Nancy, I'm sorry, busted now now 379 00:22:35,359 --> 00:22:38,560 Speaker 1: now you're a recidivist. Sometimes in a in a I 380 00:22:38,640 --> 00:22:42,040 Speaker 1: am it's but sometimes in a certain profile case obviously 381 00:22:42,080 --> 00:22:45,080 Speaker 1: we're doing it in a quick nutshell, but uh, it's 382 00:22:45,119 --> 00:22:47,879 Speaker 1: sometimes it's just best not to and just uh and 383 00:22:48,000 --> 00:22:51,880 Speaker 1: just go ahead and you know, uh, you know, try 384 00:22:51,920 --> 00:22:55,040 Speaker 1: it on a you know, murder one versus death penalty 385 00:22:55,119 --> 00:22:57,800 Speaker 1: murder hold on Dave mac has a state announcer seeking 386 00:22:57,800 --> 00:22:59,920 Speaker 1: the death penalty. They have an announced that they're seeking 387 00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:01,960 Speaker 1: the death penalty, but she is being held without bail 388 00:23:02,160 --> 00:23:04,640 Speaker 1: because it is a death penalty typecake. Take a listen 389 00:23:04,640 --> 00:23:07,320 Speaker 1: to our friend at Inside Edition. She was a grieving 390 00:23:07,359 --> 00:23:11,280 Speaker 1: widow who claimed her wealthy husband suffered a fatal fall 391 00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:15,520 Speaker 1: at home, but police say church going Lana Clayton poisoned 392 00:23:15,600 --> 00:23:19,600 Speaker 1: him with of all things, eyedrops, available over the counter 393 00:23:19,680 --> 00:23:23,240 Speaker 1: at every pharmacy in America. Court documents say the fifty 394 00:23:23,240 --> 00:23:26,439 Speaker 1: two year old mother of two confessed to administering the 395 00:23:26,520 --> 00:23:29,960 Speaker 1: poison to him in his water over a three day period. 396 00:23:30,480 --> 00:23:33,760 Speaker 1: Millionaire businessman Stephen Clayton lived with his wife in a 397 00:23:33,800 --> 00:23:37,720 Speaker 1: South Carolina mansion that is a replica of George Washington's 398 00:23:37,800 --> 00:23:42,439 Speaker 1: Mount Vernon plantation. His wife's alleged poisoning scheme was straight 399 00:23:42,440 --> 00:23:45,360 Speaker 1: out of the two thousand and five movie Wedding Crashers, 400 00:23:46,880 --> 00:23:51,320 Speaker 1: Thank You. Owen Wilson puts eyedrops into Bradley Cooper's drips, 401 00:23:51,440 --> 00:23:55,920 Speaker 1: sending him running to the bathroom. Funny stuff, but in actuality. 402 00:23:55,960 --> 00:23:59,240 Speaker 1: The chemical in eyedrops works great on the eyes, but 403 00:23:59,359 --> 00:24:03,160 Speaker 1: if swallow a load insignificant amounts, it attacks the nervous 404 00:24:03,160 --> 00:24:12,560 Speaker 1: system and can be deadly. Chills, sweats, nausea, vomiting, diarrhea. 405 00:24:12,880 --> 00:24:15,840 Speaker 1: I felt awful. Ginger Watson knows what it's like to 406 00:24:15,920 --> 00:24:19,000 Speaker 1: be poisoned by eyedrops. When she was a manager at 407 00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:23,040 Speaker 1: Pizza Hut in twenty eleven, a disgruntled coworker spiked her 408 00:24:23,119 --> 00:24:28,440 Speaker 1: soda with eyedrops. She was hospitalized, but fortunately survived. If 409 00:24:28,440 --> 00:24:31,560 Speaker 1: I had an underlying medical condition or I had gotten 410 00:24:31,560 --> 00:24:35,160 Speaker 1: a little more of the drug, I could have been 411 00:24:35,240 --> 00:24:39,160 Speaker 1: seriously injured or died. Now, a product seen in so 412 00:24:39,200 --> 00:24:42,600 Speaker 1: many medicine cabinets has allegedly been used by a wife 413 00:24:42,640 --> 00:24:45,520 Speaker 1: to get rid of her husband. The dead man's family 414 00:24:45,560 --> 00:24:48,879 Speaker 1: members said they are shocked and mortified by the cause 415 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:52,640 Speaker 1: of Steven's death. All our family and friends know how 416 00:24:52,720 --> 00:24:55,520 Speaker 1: much he loved his wife and how devoted he was 417 00:24:55,600 --> 00:25:19,960 Speaker 1: to her. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. A North Carolina 418 00:25:20,040 --> 00:25:22,520 Speaker 1: woman is accused of trying to make her fiance sick 419 00:25:22,600 --> 00:25:26,040 Speaker 1: by putting eyedrops in his drink. If this sounds familiar 420 00:25:26,119 --> 00:25:28,959 Speaker 1: to you, you've probably seen it in the movie Wedding Crashers, 421 00:25:29,040 --> 00:25:31,520 Speaker 1: and that is where the woman told police she got 422 00:25:31,560 --> 00:25:35,679 Speaker 1: the idea. Jamie Cruse facing felony charges this morning because 423 00:25:35,680 --> 00:25:39,000 Speaker 1: eyedrops can actually put someone in a coma or even 424 00:25:39,280 --> 00:25:41,840 Speaker 1: kill them. He locked himself in their baby in a 425 00:25:41,920 --> 00:25:45,240 Speaker 1: bedroom and then called police. She told officers she was 426 00:25:45,280 --> 00:25:47,320 Speaker 1: trying to make him sick so that she can move 427 00:25:47,320 --> 00:25:51,160 Speaker 1: out with her daughter. A North Carolina woman allegedly admit 428 00:25:51,440 --> 00:25:55,240 Speaker 1: she tried to poison her fiance with eyedrops climbing. She 429 00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:59,120 Speaker 1: got the idea from a movie. Her name Jamie Lynn Cruise. 430 00:25:59,520 --> 00:26:02,919 Speaker 1: She's been arrested after her fiance calls nine one one 431 00:26:03,480 --> 00:26:10,399 Speaker 1: when he spots her putting eyedrops into his soda. Wow, okay, 432 00:26:10,560 --> 00:26:13,479 Speaker 1: straight to Dave Matt Crime online dot Com investigative reporter, 433 00:26:13,600 --> 00:26:16,320 Speaker 1: what happened? You know exactly what you heard? This woman? 434 00:26:16,400 --> 00:26:20,719 Speaker 1: Jamie Cruz was caught red handed. The boyfriend suspected as 435 00:26:20,800 --> 00:26:23,639 Speaker 1: much he saw her trying to put the eye drops 436 00:26:23,760 --> 00:26:26,320 Speaker 1: in his drink. Once he saw that, he grabbed their 437 00:26:26,400 --> 00:26:29,160 Speaker 1: child and locked himself into bedroom, called the police, and 438 00:26:29,600 --> 00:26:32,240 Speaker 1: that's how all of this began. She told them though, 439 00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,040 Speaker 1: that she watched the movie Wedding Crashers and thought this 440 00:26:35,200 --> 00:26:37,120 Speaker 1: was a good idea because she just wanted to get 441 00:26:37,119 --> 00:26:40,000 Speaker 1: away with her daughter. Obviously, they have a child together, 442 00:26:40,080 --> 00:26:42,840 Speaker 1: and there was a real problem with this relationship that 443 00:26:42,920 --> 00:26:47,359 Speaker 1: the husband of fiance suspected she might do something like this. Okay, 444 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,679 Speaker 1: here's the thing. Under the law, Jason Oceans. Let's just 445 00:26:51,720 --> 00:26:57,120 Speaker 1: say I point a gun at Jackie Howard and then oops, 446 00:26:57,200 --> 00:26:59,800 Speaker 1: it goes off and I kill her, And I say, well, 447 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,280 Speaker 1: you know what, I was just trying to scare her. 448 00:27:03,400 --> 00:27:09,080 Speaker 1: That doesn't matter, because the law presumes you intend the 449 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: natural consequence of your act. In other words, as I 450 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:14,919 Speaker 1: would tell a jury, if you take a piece of 451 00:27:14,920 --> 00:27:17,320 Speaker 1: fine china, the kind you can kind of see through, 452 00:27:17,640 --> 00:27:21,159 Speaker 1: and you throw it to a cement floor, the law 453 00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:25,280 Speaker 1: presumes you intend to break it the natural consequence of 454 00:27:25,320 --> 00:27:28,879 Speaker 1: your act. So if I hold a gun to Jackie's 455 00:27:28,920 --> 00:27:33,200 Speaker 1: face and pull the trigger to scare her. The law 456 00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:36,120 Speaker 1: presumes I mean to kill her. In this case, she 457 00:27:36,720 --> 00:27:40,560 Speaker 1: gave her fiance a sufficient amount of I try to 458 00:27:41,000 --> 00:27:44,600 Speaker 1: I drops to him sick. Well, you know, into the 459 00:27:44,680 --> 00:27:49,400 Speaker 1: consequences of an intentional or an unintentional act, right, So 460 00:27:49,880 --> 00:27:52,480 Speaker 1: you know in this jurisdiction here in New York, that 461 00:27:52,520 --> 00:27:54,760 Speaker 1: would certainly be up for a charge. In your example 462 00:27:54,840 --> 00:28:00,880 Speaker 1: of criminally negligent homicide, you know's what's the intent an 463 00:28:00,880 --> 00:28:03,440 Speaker 1: are up to manslaughter? And it depends how you look 464 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:07,560 Speaker 1: in the facts. Uh, you know collectively, well he lived, 465 00:28:09,320 --> 00:28:12,040 Speaker 1: I would still say it's aggravated assault. I would agree 466 00:28:12,080 --> 00:28:14,600 Speaker 1: with you, if not attempted murder. I think you're right 467 00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:18,960 Speaker 1: on the charge, and see if it drops further. But 468 00:28:19,320 --> 00:28:22,800 Speaker 1: I think it's certainly eligible for a top charge. The 469 00:28:24,000 --> 00:28:29,400 Speaker 1: unintended consequences of a bad act. Right. You can't drive 470 00:28:29,440 --> 00:28:31,679 Speaker 1: down the street at ninety miles an hour thinking well 471 00:28:31,720 --> 00:28:33,760 Speaker 1: it's deserted the three in the morning and just so 472 00:28:33,880 --> 00:28:36,159 Speaker 1: happens people are coming home from work and you mow 473 00:28:36,280 --> 00:28:39,160 Speaker 1: them down. Oh, that's a good example to you, Kieren 474 00:28:39,240 --> 00:28:41,840 Speaker 1: start New York psychologists joining us. You can find r 475 00:28:41,840 --> 00:28:45,360 Speaker 1: at Karen Start dot com. What can you tell us 476 00:28:45,440 --> 00:28:51,440 Speaker 1: about the mindset of someone who uses poison as their weapon? Well, 477 00:28:51,480 --> 00:28:55,240 Speaker 1: I think that anyone who's trying to kill another person, 478 00:28:55,400 --> 00:28:59,600 Speaker 1: Nancy is a psychopath no matter what they're trying to use. 479 00:29:00,160 --> 00:29:03,040 Speaker 1: Someone who's trying to use poison, though, it is very 480 00:29:03,080 --> 00:29:07,800 Speaker 1: smart because most of the time, at least in the past, 481 00:29:07,880 --> 00:29:11,280 Speaker 1: you couldn't be able to tell that they had used poison. 482 00:29:11,400 --> 00:29:16,520 Speaker 1: These days it tests us so minister, that's so refined 483 00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:23,400 Speaker 1: that you actually can tell something that like eyedrops. But 484 00:29:23,600 --> 00:29:27,160 Speaker 1: if you think about it, it's somebody who doesn't care 485 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:31,320 Speaker 1: about killing another person. But it's very wise because who 486 00:29:31,320 --> 00:29:36,040 Speaker 1: would think of eyedrops as a way to kill another person? 487 00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,800 Speaker 1: To Joe Scott Morgan forensics expert j Scot when I 488 00:29:40,840 --> 00:29:45,160 Speaker 1: was working on my last Hallmark movie, I had a 489 00:29:45,280 --> 00:29:50,320 Speaker 1: scene where someone died, a female hospital administrator prescription for 490 00:29:50,440 --> 00:29:54,880 Speaker 1: murder by the way, died of digitalis overdose. And you 491 00:29:54,920 --> 00:30:02,680 Speaker 1: know digitalis comes from the foxglove plant. Okay, so at 492 00:30:02,760 --> 00:30:07,720 Speaker 1: first something like that may not show up as care 493 00:30:07,760 --> 00:30:13,080 Speaker 1: and Start was describing and your standard toxicology tests. So 494 00:30:13,880 --> 00:30:19,360 Speaker 1: that indicates very very smart perpetrator. Because they know how 495 00:30:19,360 --> 00:30:22,960 Speaker 1: to use a certain type of substance that won't show 496 00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,560 Speaker 1: up in a toxicology test. Yes, you're right, and see 497 00:30:25,680 --> 00:30:28,440 Speaker 1: it's it's what I would refer to as an exotic 498 00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:33,800 Speaker 1: poison because when when we do a stand what's called 499 00:30:33,800 --> 00:30:38,040 Speaker 1: a standard toxicology panel at autopsy, it's you know, all 500 00:30:38,080 --> 00:30:43,240 Speaker 1: the usual suspects are there as far as like opiates, cocaine, benzodiazepine, 501 00:30:43,560 --> 00:30:46,000 Speaker 1: all those things that you would normally think that are 502 00:30:46,040 --> 00:30:49,760 Speaker 1: associated with death. Potentially, it's not like she went out 503 00:30:50,320 --> 00:30:54,480 Speaker 1: and shot a bullus of heroin into a drink or 504 00:30:54,560 --> 00:30:57,320 Speaker 1: something that he was ingesting to try to offer him 505 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:02,160 Speaker 1: that way, because that would be found. With this tetrahydrolozine poisoning. 506 00:31:02,480 --> 00:31:05,760 Speaker 1: This is something that's exotic, so we might not see 507 00:31:05,760 --> 00:31:08,600 Speaker 1: it on the initial reports. But what would what would 508 00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,880 Speaker 1: take place is that through the gross findings that means 509 00:31:11,880 --> 00:31:14,480 Speaker 1: the things that we can see with our unaided eye 510 00:31:14,600 --> 00:31:17,760 Speaker 1: at autopsy and under the microscope that'll put us down 511 00:31:17,800 --> 00:31:21,480 Speaker 1: a different path. For instance, in a fatal case where 512 00:31:21,520 --> 00:31:24,280 Speaker 1: we would have to go back and retest again, what 513 00:31:24,360 --> 00:31:28,200 Speaker 1: would the physical symptoms be off. I'm gonna I'm gonna 514 00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:34,000 Speaker 1: try it tetra hydrosolene poisoning. Wow, first try to Wow. 515 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:37,479 Speaker 1: I'm just so happy with myself. Go ahead, good job, Nancy, 516 00:31:38,080 --> 00:31:40,760 Speaker 1: Thank you. I knew you were going to chine in. Jason, 517 00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:46,920 Speaker 1: I've been waiting to say that. Okay, go ahead, Joe's 518 00:31:46,920 --> 00:31:52,040 Speaker 1: got What would they see if you had tetrahydrosolene poisoning? 519 00:31:52,200 --> 00:31:56,200 Speaker 1: What would the body manifest? Well, some of the things 520 00:31:56,240 --> 00:32:00,880 Speaker 1: that you're going to see are going to be irritated membrane. Say, 521 00:32:00,920 --> 00:32:05,840 Speaker 1: for instance, also in the soft lining of cardiac tissue, 522 00:32:06,560 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: you're going to see problems in the lungs. It's going 523 00:32:09,320 --> 00:32:11,880 Speaker 1: to lead to a congestive failure. So it's going to 524 00:32:12,160 --> 00:32:15,920 Speaker 1: if somebody, say, for instance, has no they don't have 525 00:32:15,960 --> 00:32:19,680 Speaker 1: any kind of predisposition to some kind of outstanding medical problem, 526 00:32:19,720 --> 00:32:22,920 Speaker 1: and you begin to see these manifestations, hopefully a smart 527 00:32:22,960 --> 00:32:26,200 Speaker 1: pathologist will look at this and say something else is 528 00:32:26,320 --> 00:32:28,280 Speaker 1: up here, and so it's going to give you the 529 00:32:28,320 --> 00:32:33,480 Speaker 1: impetus to dig further. Got another question. You said, Karen, 530 00:32:33,560 --> 00:32:36,360 Speaker 1: start that she would have been a psychopath. What do 531 00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,440 Speaker 1: you mean by that? That's a technical phrase in your 532 00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,040 Speaker 1: line of business, but not everybody knows what it really 533 00:32:42,080 --> 00:32:48,080 Speaker 1: means a psychopath is somebody who is not like anybody else. 534 00:32:48,320 --> 00:32:51,480 Speaker 1: I hope that you know. It's someone who has no 535 00:32:51,680 --> 00:32:57,760 Speaker 1: feelings whatsoever, and there's no guilty conscience, and they actually 536 00:32:58,040 --> 00:33:01,440 Speaker 1: enjoy the idea that they can get away with killing 537 00:33:01,440 --> 00:33:05,200 Speaker 1: another person. They take pleasure in being able to do that, 538 00:33:05,720 --> 00:33:10,200 Speaker 1: and in this case just okay, I'm not happy here, 539 00:33:10,240 --> 00:33:14,040 Speaker 1: so I think I'll use some poison and I'll get 540 00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,720 Speaker 1: this person to die. A psychopath is capable of doing that. 541 00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:22,560 Speaker 1: They don't even need a motivation. They're just out to kill. 542 00:33:22,760 --> 00:33:26,440 Speaker 1: I got another question. Do you believe there's any way, 543 00:33:26,600 --> 00:33:30,000 Speaker 1: Joe Scott, that we are looking at a trend? Yeah, 544 00:33:30,040 --> 00:33:33,880 Speaker 1: the possibility certainly exist, and I think that this has 545 00:33:33,960 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: happened in the past with other agents where people will 546 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,880 Speaker 1: see it an opportunity and take it. Let's keep in mind, 547 00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:45,120 Speaker 1: this case happened in North Carolina, Nancy, and this was 548 00:33:45,240 --> 00:33:48,640 Speaker 1: not too far away from the previous case that we're 549 00:33:48,640 --> 00:33:51,600 Speaker 1: referring to that was out of York, South Carolina. I 550 00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,320 Speaker 1: think that there's an awareness on that end. We had 551 00:33:55,320 --> 00:33:57,680 Speaker 1: talked about the wedding crashers. I think that this has 552 00:33:57,720 --> 00:34:02,160 Speaker 1: brought to light and so the potential certainly exist. I 553 00:34:02,240 --> 00:34:05,120 Speaker 1: think that what you're going to see is there will 554 00:34:05,160 --> 00:34:07,520 Speaker 1: be an impetus that will come about as a result 555 00:34:07,560 --> 00:34:11,840 Speaker 1: of probably trying to restrict access to things as seemingly 556 00:34:11,920 --> 00:34:15,680 Speaker 1: innocuous as eye drops, particularly if these cases continue to 557 00:34:16,320 --> 00:34:22,040 Speaker 1: track in these way. Side effects include abnormal drowsiness, sedation, 558 00:34:22,560 --> 00:34:25,640 Speaker 1: as Joe Scott was telling us, low or high blood pressure, 559 00:34:26,040 --> 00:34:33,280 Speaker 1: difficulty breathing, decreased heart rate, even a coma tetrahydros lene 560 00:34:33,360 --> 00:34:38,360 Speaker 1: made up of carbon hydrogen nitrogen. It's also found in 561 00:34:38,520 --> 00:34:44,840 Speaker 1: nasal decongested sprays. Most example, high profile example is viazine. 562 00:34:44,880 --> 00:34:48,319 Speaker 1: It constricts your blood vessels and because of that, that's 563 00:34:48,320 --> 00:34:51,359 Speaker 1: how it stops your nose from running and clears up 564 00:34:51,400 --> 00:34:58,040 Speaker 1: your eyes. Now I've been doing some very very deep 565 00:34:58,880 --> 00:35:04,719 Speaker 1: legal invest tigation, and I have learned that there is 566 00:35:04,760 --> 00:35:08,839 Speaker 1: a scene in Wedding Crashers where one of the main 567 00:35:08,960 --> 00:35:13,560 Speaker 1: character puts eye drops in a rival's drink. Now, that 568 00:35:13,760 --> 00:35:17,400 Speaker 1: scene is alleged to have inspired a trend. Students in 569 00:35:17,480 --> 00:35:22,120 Speaker 1: Milwaukee nearly killed a classmate doing it. In June two 570 00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:26,040 Speaker 1: thousand and six, a Wisconsin woman jail for ninety days 571 00:35:26,320 --> 00:35:31,759 Speaker 1: for poisoning her roommate with a Vizine two eleven. She 572 00:35:32,000 --> 00:35:36,800 Speaker 1: got the idea from the movie A California man charged 573 00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:41,360 Speaker 1: with domestic violence from poisoning. He spiked his girlfriend's drink 574 00:35:41,440 --> 00:35:47,120 Speaker 1: as a prank after an argument. If you google vizine prank, 575 00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:54,319 Speaker 1: you get over nearly You get nearly twenty thousand results. Okay, 576 00:35:55,680 --> 00:35:59,440 Speaker 1: poisoned by eye drops It is a trend. Nancy Grace 577 00:35:59,480 --> 00:36:02,040 Speaker 1: crimes too. Or he's signing off goodbye friend.