WEBVTT - Kudzu: The Vine That Just Won't Stop 0:00:01.480 --> 0:00:07.240 Welcome to Stuff You Should Know, a production of iHeartRadio. 0:00:11.200 --> 0:00:14.200 Hey, and welcome to the podcast. I'm Josh, there's Chuck 0:00:14.280 --> 0:00:17.479 and Jerry's here too, and we're just hanging out in 0:00:17.520 --> 0:00:23.239 the South here on Stuff you Should Know. Yep, that's right. 0:00:23.400 --> 0:00:26.640 And today everybody, we're gonna be talking about something I've 0:00:26.640 --> 0:00:28.800 wanted to do an episode on for a little while, 0:00:28.800 --> 0:00:29.720 but I forgot about it. 0:00:30.160 --> 0:00:31.520 But now keeping a better list. 0:00:32.520 --> 0:00:35.880 And this was farmed out to Dave Ruz who helped 0:00:35.960 --> 0:00:39.280 us with this one about kudzoo, which if you're from 0:00:39.479 --> 0:00:41.159 the United States, you probably know what it is. If 0:00:41.159 --> 0:00:43.479 you're from the American South, you definitely know what it is. 0:00:44.240 --> 0:00:44.880 But if you don't. 0:00:44.960 --> 0:00:49.120 It is a perennial vine that very much thrives in 0:00:49.159 --> 0:00:52.280 the American South and it is known as the vine 0:00:52.320 --> 0:00:54.720 that ate the South because it is an invasive plant 0:00:54.720 --> 0:01:00.280 from Japan that has really, really, really thrived in the 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:01.000 American South. 0:01:01.520 --> 0:01:05.600 Yeah, it's taken on monstrous proportions as far as legend 0:01:05.680 --> 0:01:08.479 and rumor and just how people walking around the South 0:01:08.560 --> 0:01:11.959 generally think about and talk about kudzuo. Yeah, it's become 0:01:12.080 --> 0:01:15.840 kind of a part of Southern identity. Better for worse. 0:01:16.880 --> 0:01:20.240 But yeah, we'll get into it because recent scholarship has 0:01:20.280 --> 0:01:25.399 found scholarship on kudzu who'ld have thought has found like 0:01:26.240 --> 0:01:29.200 we actually don't think kudzoo's nearly as prevalent as you 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:33.000 guys say. Yeah, and yeah, the South is just kind 0:01:33.000 --> 0:01:38.760 of ignoring that stuff for now, Yeah, because it's ours. Yeah, 0:01:38.800 --> 0:01:41.880 but originally, like you said, it was Japan's and China's 0:01:42.040 --> 0:01:46.200 I think it was. Actually it's native to China, and 0:01:46.280 --> 0:01:50.920 it's scientific name is phou Aria montana, which makes it 0:01:50.960 --> 0:01:53.040 really confusing because it's not from Montana. 0:01:53.720 --> 0:01:55.400 Neither is Hannah. 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:57.520 No, turns out she's from Tennessee. 0:01:58.040 --> 0:01:58.720 Yeah, that's right. 0:01:59.360 --> 0:02:02.600 It is a part of the boy I always forget 0:02:02.920 --> 0:02:05.880 and someone always tells us when it ends in ce 0:02:05.880 --> 0:02:10.760 A E, what is it, say F A B A 0:02:11.080 --> 0:02:15.320 C E A E family, which means it's a legome, 0:02:16.280 --> 0:02:18.880 just like a pea or a soybean. They are all 0:02:18.960 --> 0:02:21.400 nitrogen fixers, which we're going to get to in a 0:02:21.400 --> 0:02:24.000 little bit. But it's it's a good thing that it's 0:02:24.040 --> 0:02:29.480 a nitrogen fixer because it helps soil fertility and it's 0:02:29.520 --> 0:02:32.120 the kind of thing that can grow in the peak 0:02:32.160 --> 0:02:34.320 of summer when things are really hot and humid and 0:02:34.400 --> 0:02:37.119 rainy and steamy. I can grow a foot a day, 0:02:37.240 --> 0:02:39.400 is what you usually hear. And I think that's probably 0:02:39.520 --> 0:02:42.839 confirmed or about you know, forty to sixty feet through 0:02:42.880 --> 0:02:48.280 a growing season, and because southern winters are not so harsh, 0:02:48.280 --> 0:02:51.120 they almost you know, if you're a mature kadsoo vine, 0:02:51.160 --> 0:02:53.639 you're going to live through that winter and just keep 0:02:53.680 --> 0:02:54.280 on growing. 0:02:54.800 --> 0:02:57.000 Yeah, and grow and grow and grow. And the way 0:02:57.000 --> 0:03:00.840 that they grow, they have hairs on them like poison 0:03:00.880 --> 0:03:05.360 ivy does, but it doesn't help them climb. Instead, the 0:03:05.480 --> 0:03:09.280 very ends, the very tippy tops of the kudzu vine 0:03:09.919 --> 0:03:13.480 is like long and thin tendrils, and it will wrap 0:03:13.520 --> 0:03:16.360 those tendrils around anything it can possibly get its hands on. 0:03:17.520 --> 0:03:21.000 It loves fences, It loves guy wires that hold up 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:25.600 telephone poles. Yeah, it loves tree limbs. Anything that it 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:29.080 can use to support itself, it will and it just 0:03:29.680 --> 0:03:34.200 eventually overwhelms and takes over whatever it's attaching itself to, 0:03:34.560 --> 0:03:37.440 whether it's a barn, whether it's some poor unfortunate tree 0:03:37.480 --> 0:03:41.480 who's like, what did I do? It just spreads and 0:03:41.560 --> 0:03:43.880 covers everything. And that's one of the reasons. The way 0:03:43.920 --> 0:03:47.240 that it grows is one of the reasons why the 0:03:47.280 --> 0:03:49.960 South is just like see kudzuo. It's everywhere. It just 0:03:50.000 --> 0:03:51.880 takes over. It's gonna kill us all one day. 0:03:52.160 --> 0:03:54.000 Yeah, can't even see that billboard anymore. 0:03:54.480 --> 0:03:58.040 Nope, which is a shame because if you can't see 0:03:58.040 --> 0:04:00.680 a billboard, how is life forth living? 0:04:00.920 --> 0:04:01.200 I know? 0:04:01.600 --> 0:04:05.000 All right, So if you wonder, oh yeah, but what 0:04:05.040 --> 0:04:08.760 about this nasty eroded soil that's just like barren. 0:04:09.640 --> 0:04:11.760 Nothing can grow there. Cuds you can grow there. 0:04:11.600 --> 0:04:12.400 You're wondering that. 0:04:12.600 --> 0:04:14.640 Yeah, And the reason cuds you can grow there are 0:04:14.640 --> 0:04:16.479 One of the reasons is not because it just climbs 0:04:16.520 --> 0:04:19.400 so fast and grows so fast, but it has an 0:04:19.600 --> 0:04:25.120 energy store via this humongous tap root. A mature kudzu 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.440 root can be like twelve feet long and weigh four 0:04:28.520 --> 0:04:33.120 hundred pounds. And these things are underground. Just it's almost 0:04:33.160 --> 0:04:36.560 like the engine like lying beneath this vine. 0:04:37.160 --> 0:04:41.480 Yeah, or the gas tank even I guess sure, all right, 0:04:41.560 --> 0:04:44.000 one of the two, maybe both, maybe a gas tank 0:04:44.120 --> 0:04:45.400 engine in one. 0:04:45.839 --> 0:04:48.679 Yeah, though in a catalytic converter in your business. 0:04:49.480 --> 0:04:52.360 So one of the things about kudzou vines one of 0:04:52.400 --> 0:04:56.320 the reasons they're so stable as far as once they 0:04:56.360 --> 0:04:58.839 start growing they're hard to get rid of is because 0:04:59.440 --> 0:05:03.480 every once while, I think every foot or so, when 0:05:03.560 --> 0:05:06.919 the vine touches the ground, it sends out roots and 0:05:06.960 --> 0:05:10.240 it establishes what are called root crowns, and that's where 0:05:10.240 --> 0:05:13.160 it eventually grows from. Once the new root crown is established, 0:05:13.200 --> 0:05:15.080 it starts sending out more vines and more and more 0:05:15.080 --> 0:05:19.040 and more. And when you have all these root crowns 0:05:19.600 --> 0:05:23.840 sending out vines, they become tangled. They get tangled. Matt, Yeah, 0:05:24.000 --> 0:05:29.800 a thicket of kudzu vines that can be meters deep, essentially, 0:05:29.880 --> 0:05:32.000 like you could get lost in one of these things. 0:05:32.320 --> 0:05:34.640 Yeah. Have you ever tried to get rid of kudzu 0:05:34.800 --> 0:05:35.720 for any reason. 0:05:36.680 --> 0:05:41.200 Not kudzu but other pernicious vines? Yes, yes, right, never 0:05:41.240 --> 0:05:43.480 tried my hand at kutsu sounds hard. 0:05:43.600 --> 0:05:46.840 Yeah, it's hard, but you know, I think any pernicious 0:05:46.880 --> 0:05:47.680 vine is pretty tough. 0:05:47.760 --> 0:05:50.240 So sure you probably know what it tastes like, you know, 0:05:50.400 --> 0:05:51.240 but not literally. 0:05:51.640 --> 0:05:55.000 Although what a time to talk about that, because if 0:05:55.040 --> 0:05:57.840 you want to go back to kudzu's roots in China, 0:05:58.480 --> 0:06:02.000 literal roots did not even mean that it has been 0:06:02.040 --> 0:06:05.479 a part of Chinese traditional Chinese medicine for a couple 0:06:05.480 --> 0:06:09.680 of thousand years. They call it co or koshu, and 0:06:09.920 --> 0:06:12.440 that root they make root tea out of it. And 0:06:12.520 --> 0:06:15.840 in Japan they eat this stuff like not only has 0:06:15.839 --> 0:06:19.680 it been used for medicine, but that root powder that 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:21.520 they can make is used in a lot of different 0:06:21.560 --> 0:06:22.279 foods in Japan. 0:06:22.760 --> 0:06:25.520 Yeah, it's a thickener. So if you've had mochi, it's 0:06:25.560 --> 0:06:29.720 possible that they use kudzu powder kudzu starch to make 0:06:30.279 --> 0:06:33.880 make it the thick little delicious treat it is, or 0:06:34.000 --> 0:06:37.720 they'll use it to make noodles with. It's also used 0:06:37.760 --> 0:06:43.240 in traditional Japanese and Chinese medicine. They'll use tea for 0:06:43.360 --> 0:06:49.039 things like colds and digestion. And then also because there's 0:06:49.120 --> 0:06:53.080 actual like health benefits or at least it contains flavonoids 0:06:53.120 --> 0:06:56.240 that have been shown to have health benefits, they use 0:06:56.279 --> 0:07:03.000 it for things like inflammation, cardiovas, vascular disease, osteoporosis to 0:07:03.080 --> 0:07:05.680 protect against those things, not to cure them or anything. 0:07:06.120 --> 0:07:08.919 Yeah, and while I mentioned that it's koshu and China, 0:07:09.040 --> 0:07:11.200 it is kuzu in Japan. 0:07:12.360 --> 0:07:13.760 And you might have heard various stories. 0:07:13.800 --> 0:07:15.720 If you're in the South, you know there's It's not 0:07:15.760 --> 0:07:17.679 like we're sitting around talking abou kudzu all the time. 0:07:18.240 --> 0:07:20.560 That's a bit of an outdated trope. 0:07:21.280 --> 0:07:23.640 But at some point, if you, like literally were raised 0:07:23.640 --> 0:07:26.520 in here and lived here your whole life, you might 0:07:26.560 --> 0:07:29.280 have heard someone at some point say something about like 0:07:29.360 --> 0:07:32.240 how cuds you got here? And I remember hearing a 0:07:32.280 --> 0:07:35.160 story that it was brought over as part of a 0:07:35.440 --> 0:07:37.560 like a World's fair or something, and it had to 0:07:37.600 --> 0:07:40.840 have been this story from eighteen seventy six when it 0:07:40.880 --> 0:07:43.840 was brought over from Japan on display at the Philadelphia 0:07:43.960 --> 0:07:48.040 Centennial Exposition. But that is a bit of a false 0:07:48.120 --> 0:07:50.960 rumor because they actually destroyed all of those plants, and 0:07:50.960 --> 0:07:53.200 that's not when kudzu literally took root here. 0:07:54.080 --> 0:07:58.400 No, And then within a few decades the people who 0:07:58.480 --> 0:08:01.200 were at that exposition and saw apparently fell in love 0:08:01.240 --> 0:08:05.120 with it. Kudzu display was a huge hit, and so 0:08:05.320 --> 0:08:08.720 within a couple decades you could order seeds kudzu seeds 0:08:09.080 --> 0:08:13.640 to plant at your house. And now, yeah, and people 0:08:13.640 --> 0:08:16.840 would plant it as an ornamental vine because it has 0:08:16.880 --> 0:08:20.800 purple flowers. They smell it smells like grape candy and lavender. 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:24.040 It can be pretty I could see how old timey 0:08:24.120 --> 0:08:26.520 turn of the century people were like, this is great. 0:08:27.000 --> 0:08:29.960 But even then with people planning the stuff at their 0:08:29.960 --> 0:08:33.959 houses across the South, that still wasn't when kudzu invaded, 0:08:34.080 --> 0:08:39.320 because they were mostly growing it upright on trellises on porches, 0:08:39.880 --> 0:08:43.880 and kudzu is easily controlled in that situation. It's when 0:08:43.880 --> 0:08:46.439 it's on the ground as a groundcover that it spreads 0:08:46.440 --> 0:08:48.560 like crazy and it is really hard to get rid of. 0:08:49.080 --> 0:08:52.960 Yeah, for sure, when it really came in earnest was 0:08:52.960 --> 0:08:55.960 in the nineteen thirties, and it was very much purposeful. 0:08:56.559 --> 0:08:58.040 This was the time when the. 0:08:59.480 --> 0:09:02.960 I guess Oklahoma and Kansas and you know, other areas 0:09:03.000 --> 0:09:06.960 nearby were being killed by the dust Bowl. In the 0:09:06.960 --> 0:09:09.360 Deep South, we didn't have the dust Bowl, but we 0:09:09.440 --> 0:09:13.120 had a pretty bad agricultural scene after decades and decades 0:09:13.160 --> 0:09:19.640 of monoculture farming with corn basically tobacco and cotton. And 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:23.200 so we've talked about monocultures before and how that's not 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:25.160 the best way to take care of your land. And 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:28.000 eventually that soil is not going to be great. It's 0:09:28.000 --> 0:09:30.079 going to erode, it is going to be depleted of nutrients, 0:09:30.520 --> 0:09:34.439 and Kudzoo was looked at by the Soil Erosion Surface 0:09:34.880 --> 0:09:39.560 Service Surface Service, which later became the Soil Conservation Service 0:09:40.000 --> 0:09:42.040 as the answer in nineteen thirty three. 0:09:42.760 --> 0:09:46.240 Yeah, because so, first of all, it grows vigorously. Everybody 0:09:46.280 --> 0:09:49.600 knows that about kudzoo, and it doesn't matter how terrible 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.559 the soil is, it will grow in it. And then 0:09:52.679 --> 0:09:54.480 as it's growing in it, you said that it's a 0:09:54.600 --> 0:10:00.400 nitrogen fixing superstar, and it is nitrogen fixing plant. All 0:10:00.800 --> 0:10:03.920 plants fix nitrogen. They bring sugars to their roots, they 0:10:03.920 --> 0:10:07.439 feed microbes that eat the sugars, and then the microbes 0:10:07.800 --> 0:10:11.720 convert nitrogen from the atmosphere into usable nitrogen that the 0:10:11.720 --> 0:10:14.960 plants then take up. So all plants have that relationship 0:10:15.000 --> 0:10:19.400 with microbes. It's just nitrogen fixing. Plants are such powerhouses 0:10:19.440 --> 0:10:24.000 and have such thriving microbial communities that they put out 0:10:24.120 --> 0:10:28.240 way more nitrogen into the soil than they use themselves. 0:10:28.559 --> 0:10:32.719 So as they grow, they restore the soil with nutrients 0:10:32.720 --> 0:10:35.560 that have been depleted. And that's what kudzu was initially 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:36.120 used for. 0:10:36.640 --> 0:10:39.160 Yeah, so they're like, hey, this is great, it'll slow 0:10:39.200 --> 0:10:41.800 your erosion. You're going to fix that soil so good, 0:10:42.160 --> 0:10:46.000 it's gonna get fixed up. And they said, here's what 0:10:46.040 --> 0:10:46.520 we're gonna do. 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:49.120 We're gonna create a government program because those always work 0:10:49.160 --> 0:10:53.679 out great, and we're gonna encourage people to grow these things. 0:10:53.920 --> 0:10:57.560 They had millions of kadzu seeds brought in and they 0:10:57.640 --> 0:11:00.679 grew those into little seedling plants, and they paid farmers 0:11:00.720 --> 0:11:04.560 in the South eight bucks an acre to plant kudzoo, 0:11:04.640 --> 0:11:07.840 and by the mid nineteen forties there were about three 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:13.840 million acres of purposefully planted kud zoo growing on southern farms. 0:11:14.240 --> 0:11:18.040 That's on the farms. You also had the Civilian Conservation Corps, 0:11:18.240 --> 0:11:21.480 which was an FDR program with a new deal. When 0:11:21.640 --> 0:11:23.320 we talked about it before, when they were like, hey, 0:11:23.320 --> 0:11:26.760 if you're unemployed, come work for the Civilian Conservation Corps, 0:11:26.800 --> 0:11:29.559 and you know, we'll put you to work doing things 0:11:29.600 --> 0:11:33.160 like this, like hey, just go plant an anywhere along 0:11:33.160 --> 0:11:35.760 the roadway where you see a washed out gully, or 0:11:35.840 --> 0:11:38.840 if we're clearing out land for roadways and it's just 0:11:38.920 --> 0:11:43.200 a barren, dirty mess, like plant this kudzoo and you'll 0:11:43.240 --> 0:11:44.360 be doing America a favor. 0:11:44.920 --> 0:11:47.959 Same with the railroads, Like, you don't want your the 0:11:48.000 --> 0:11:51.240 bed that your railroad's built on to wash out. So 0:11:51.320 --> 0:11:53.360 if you plant kudzu on every side, it'll keep it 0:11:53.400 --> 0:11:56.840 from eroading. Plus it looks prettier than a bunch of gravel. Right, 0:11:56.920 --> 0:12:02.200 So yeah, this stuff started getting planted everywhere. And in 0:12:02.240 --> 0:12:04.640 addition to the government saying you guys want to plant this, 0:12:04.679 --> 0:12:09.160 go ahead, we'll pay you. There were some evangelists. Evangelists 0:12:09.200 --> 0:12:11.640 is like the best word to describe them. And one, 0:12:11.840 --> 0:12:14.760 the guy who's probably most prominently cited as a kadzoo 0:12:14.760 --> 0:12:17.040 evangelist is a guy named Channing Cope. 0:12:17.520 --> 0:12:20.960 Yeah, maybe we should take a break and Cliff haanging 0:12:21.000 --> 0:12:21.280 that one. 0:12:22.120 --> 0:12:22.640 I'll hang it. 0:12:23.240 --> 0:12:26.240 Everyone who the heck is Channing Coke gotta know, I 0:12:26.240 --> 0:12:29.440 gotta know, guys, you're gonna have to wait, all right, 0:12:29.440 --> 0:12:30.120 we'll be right back. 0:12:44.440 --> 0:12:48.280 Well, now we're on the road, driving in your truck. 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:52.160 I want to learn a thing or two from Joshuck. 0:12:52.440 --> 0:12:56.600 It's stuff you should know, all. 0:12:56.559 --> 0:13:03.880 Right, So, Chuck, you really messed with everyone's mind. I'm 0:13:03.920 --> 0:13:06.800 going to fulfill their wishes and tell them that Channing 0:13:06.840 --> 0:13:11.959 Cope was a farm editor for the Atlantic Constitution newspaper 0:13:12.320 --> 0:13:13.000 farm editor. 0:13:13.080 --> 0:13:13.480 What's that? 0:13:14.400 --> 0:13:16.880 So it was a guy who would edit farms and 0:13:16.920 --> 0:13:19.160 then the paper would take pictures of him editing the 0:13:19.200 --> 0:13:22.080 farm and they would publish it. That was, from what 0:13:22.120 --> 0:13:25.280 I understand, what the farm editor did back in newspaper times. 0:13:25.440 --> 0:13:29.040 Oh okay, and this is the nineteen forties. And this 0:13:29.080 --> 0:13:31.000 guy was a really from what I could tell, I 0:13:31.040 --> 0:13:33.000 didn't do any deep research on him, but he seems 0:13:33.000 --> 0:13:35.960 to have been a very, at least outwardly likable fellow. 0:13:36.360 --> 0:13:36.560 Yeh. 0:13:36.960 --> 0:13:41.240 He had a huge jovial personality. He was super homespun. 0:13:41.760 --> 0:13:44.559 He had a radio show in addition to his column, 0:13:44.760 --> 0:13:49.760 Channing Cope's Almanac, and it was really popular. He would 0:13:49.800 --> 0:13:52.920 just riff. He broadcasts live from his front porch and 0:13:53.400 --> 0:13:55.960 it was unprepared and he would fill a half hour 0:13:56.040 --> 0:13:59.600 an hour just talking about farm stuff and people loved it. 0:13:59.800 --> 0:14:02.680 But in these in his column and on the radio show, 0:14:03.000 --> 0:14:06.520 he would invariably talk about how amazing Kudzu was. 0:14:07.080 --> 0:14:10.520 Yeah, he said that, and reform. We need some reform 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:11.199 in our government. 0:14:11.520 --> 0:14:11.760 Right. 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:17.160 So he's doing this radio show, he's beaten the drum 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:21.880 for Kudzu, basically saying everything that we've been saying, which 0:14:21.920 --> 0:14:24.320 is like, hey, it's going to rebuild your soil. Your 0:14:24.320 --> 0:14:27.440 cattle can graze on it. You just rotate that cattle 0:14:27.480 --> 0:14:29.640 around your fields and they're going to be so full 0:14:29.680 --> 0:14:32.320 from kudzu and so happy, and that kudzu is going 0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:33.840 to grow back so fast and they're going to have 0:14:33.880 --> 0:14:35.720 so much more food and you're just going to be 0:14:35.760 --> 0:14:40.000 sitting pretty basically. He actually started a Kudzu Club of America, 0:14:40.040 --> 0:14:45.080 which had eventually twenty thousand members and said this is 0:14:45.720 --> 0:14:48.280 the what's going to bring the South back basically is 0:14:49.040 --> 0:14:53.920 kudzoo And about oh what less than twenty years later, oh, 0:14:53.960 --> 0:14:57.680 actually about ten years later, Southern farmers were like, we're 0:14:57.720 --> 0:15:00.200 in big trouble here because the cattle are eating this 0:15:00.280 --> 0:15:02.880 stuff and if they eat too much of those leaves, 0:15:03.480 --> 0:15:05.440 they're dying off because they're not matured yet. 0:15:05.720 --> 0:15:11.240 The vines are yeah, cattle, they're. 0:15:11.040 --> 0:15:12.520 Not mature cattle. They can't handle it. 0:15:13.640 --> 0:15:16.200 And if they try to cut it back or something, 0:15:16.560 --> 0:15:18.800 because it's you know, starting to invade other parts of 0:15:18.840 --> 0:15:23.200 their farm and like bail it up, like hey, like 0:15:23.280 --> 0:15:25.400 I don't think I don't know if we're getting through 0:15:25.440 --> 0:15:28.160 what a twisted mess this stuff is like it'll wrap 0:15:28.200 --> 0:15:31.480 itself around any machinery you have and just make a 0:15:31.480 --> 0:15:33.200 fool of modern machinery. 0:15:33.880 --> 0:15:36.480 Yeah. Just I mean, if you aren't familiar, just look 0:15:36.560 --> 0:15:39.840 up kudzoo and abandoned houses or something like that, and 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:42.760 it will. It will just immediately deliver the impression you 0:15:42.800 --> 0:15:45.400 need on what it can do and how much it 0:15:45.440 --> 0:15:47.760 can take over. And so you had a bunch of 0:15:47.840 --> 0:15:50.280 farmers in the fifties who'd planted this stuff on purpose, 0:15:50.760 --> 0:15:54.000 and stories are starting to come out like these guys 0:15:54.600 --> 0:15:58.120 like their farms are just being overrun, Like not only 0:15:58.160 --> 0:15:59.840 is it getting out of their fields, it's starting to 0:15:59.840 --> 0:16:03.880 climb up their house, the farmhouse, their tractor. If they 0:16:04.000 --> 0:16:06.720 leave it sitting for more than half an hour, it'll 0:16:06.760 --> 0:16:09.200 get eaten up by the kudzu. Like this is when 0:16:09.240 --> 0:16:12.520 the kudzu legend really started to take off. And again 0:16:12.600 --> 0:16:16.080 it was it was based in a very real fact 0:16:16.080 --> 0:16:18.400 that kudzu had gotten out of hand and everyone had 0:16:18.440 --> 0:16:23.000 a problem. But it also was the rural Southerners who 0:16:23.040 --> 0:16:26.160 were talking about this, so it was immediately spun into 0:16:26.520 --> 0:16:27.800 yarns left and right. 0:16:27.880 --> 0:16:30.240 Basically, Yeah, I mean, it would you know, if it 0:16:30.280 --> 0:16:33.720 got into the forest it would the timber industry was affected, 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:37.280 so it was genuinely causing problems. And then starting in 0:16:37.360 --> 0:16:42.160 nineteen fifty three, over the next about forty ish years, 0:16:42.960 --> 0:16:45.800 the government just kind of one at a time started 0:16:45.920 --> 0:16:48.480 saying things about kudzu, Like initially in fifty three the 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:52.840 USDA said, it's not an improved cover crop, and then 0:16:52.960 --> 0:16:56.240 nine years later in sixty two, the Soil Conservation Service said, 0:16:56.760 --> 0:16:58.640 you know what you can you don't even plant this 0:16:58.640 --> 0:17:02.240 stuff unless it's in a really remote location. Nineteen seventy 0:17:02.240 --> 0:17:04.080 comes along and they say, all right, we're gonna go 0:17:04.119 --> 0:17:06.760 ahead and call a weed a weed, and this is 0:17:06.760 --> 0:17:09.480 a weed. And then finally in ninety seven they said 0:17:09.880 --> 0:17:12.760 that's not even good enough. It is on the Federal 0:17:12.880 --> 0:17:13.960 noxious weed list. 0:17:14.280 --> 0:17:18.800 Yeah, it joined the sorry likes of goats, roue, velvet, fingergrass, 0:17:18.920 --> 0:17:25.879 giant fogweed, bidenhair, creeper, turkey berry, turkey berry, tropical soda apple. 0:17:26.160 --> 0:17:28.119 That's just like three words strung together. 0:17:28.440 --> 0:17:29.480 That's actually delicious. 0:17:29.800 --> 0:17:31.840 It sounds like it, but it's a noxious weed as 0:17:31.840 --> 0:17:34.840 far as the USDA is concerned. With a little gin 0:17:34.960 --> 0:17:38.919 and ice, though it does sound pretty good. Yeah, So 0:17:39.520 --> 0:17:42.240 one of the big problems is not just that, like 0:17:42.359 --> 0:17:45.720 farmers were having trouble with this, Eventually they figured this out, 0:17:45.760 --> 0:17:48.399 they stopped planning it, they were able to kill it 0:17:48.480 --> 0:17:53.720 off after you know, some years of difficulty, and then 0:17:54.119 --> 0:17:59.600 it mainly got left to abandoned areas those railroad tracks 0:18:00.040 --> 0:18:03.119 along the edges of highways, like the forests along the 0:18:03.200 --> 0:18:07.520 edge of a highway. That's basically where kudzoo was left 0:18:07.560 --> 0:18:10.639 to just kind of go crazy. And that's not really 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:16.160 great either, because during the last glacial maximum in North America, 0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:21.320 the ice sheets came down and stopped just above Georgia, 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:24.360 just above Tennessee, just above the South, let's just call 0:18:24.400 --> 0:18:29.040 it that, and a lot of animals migrated southward and 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.879 stopped where the ice sheets stopped and stayed after the 0:18:32.920 --> 0:18:36.160 ice sheet retreated, And as a result, the South has 0:18:36.359 --> 0:18:41.600 one of the most biodiverse ecosystems in North America, and 0:18:42.119 --> 0:18:45.320 when you add something like an invasive plant species, it 0:18:45.400 --> 0:18:48.400 affects all of that. So it actually is a big 0:18:48.440 --> 0:18:52.600 deal that kudzoo is so pernicious and so fast spreading, 0:18:52.960 --> 0:18:56.520 because it does affect that biodiversity and reduces it tremendously. 0:18:57.200 --> 0:18:58.680 Well, yeah, and you were talking about it being a 0:18:58.760 --> 0:19:02.040 nitrogen fixer, which is a good thing when you need 0:19:02.080 --> 0:19:07.000 your nitrogen fixed. The problem is is there was so 0:19:07.080 --> 0:19:09.800 much kudzoo, I think more acreage in the south than 0:19:10.040 --> 0:19:15.000 even soybeans, so more than any other legume which are 0:19:15.040 --> 0:19:18.960 the other nitrogen fixers. Is the point it can actually disrupt. 0:19:19.000 --> 0:19:21.280 It can fix so much nitrogen that can disrupt the 0:19:21.320 --> 0:19:26.600 normal nitrogen cycle because when excess nitrogen comes back into 0:19:26.640 --> 0:19:30.520 the atmosphere, it comes back as two things, nitric oxide 0:19:30.560 --> 0:19:34.720 and nitrogen dioxide, and these are pollutants. So if you 0:19:34.760 --> 0:19:37.800 have an abundance of kudzuo, eventually you're going to have 0:19:37.800 --> 0:19:41.240 an abundance of lung inflammation and asthma. 0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:43.160 It's just it's not good for the air. 0:19:43.960 --> 0:19:47.840 So I looked into that and I could find articles 0:19:47.840 --> 0:19:52.240 on one twenty ten study and they were all around 0:19:52.240 --> 0:19:55.959 the same time and no follow up whatsoever. And the 0:19:56.000 --> 0:19:58.639 most recent study I could find was from twenty twenty 0:19:58.720 --> 0:20:03.680 three and it said essentially the opposite that Japanese kudzu 0:20:03.800 --> 0:20:07.920 growing along roadways actually traps a lot of the car 0:20:07.960 --> 0:20:12.600 emissions on that road in its dense vegetation and prevents 0:20:12.680 --> 0:20:16.840 air pollution in some ways. So it's possible. Yeah, it's 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:19.320 possible the twenty ten study was right. It's possible that 0:20:19.400 --> 0:20:23.960 twenty twenty three study was right. They're not mutually exclusive necessarily, 0:20:24.040 --> 0:20:27.159 but yeah, I didn't see any follow up whatsoever on 0:20:27.200 --> 0:20:30.840 that twenty ten study. And herein we have one of 0:20:30.880 --> 0:20:35.200 the big problems with talking about kudzu. People just say 0:20:35.240 --> 0:20:39.679 stuff about it and no one says, are you sure 0:20:39.840 --> 0:20:43.720 about that? That doesn't sound quite right, or where'd you 0:20:43.720 --> 0:20:46.320 get that fact from? You know, like it's it's just 0:20:46.440 --> 0:20:49.320 that's how the South talks about kudzu because it's, in 0:20:49.359 --> 0:20:55.399 some really strange way, very proud that it has this strange, 0:20:55.480 --> 0:20:59.080 unique problem that nowhere else in the world has. So 0:20:59.440 --> 0:21:02.240 I don't think South really wants to know that kudzuo's 0:21:02.280 --> 0:21:04.160 not as big of a problem as it's man saying 0:21:04.200 --> 0:21:06.480 all these decades, you know, yeah, because. 0:21:06.320 --> 0:21:07.720 Then we wouldn't be able to walk around and talk 0:21:07.760 --> 0:21:10.639 about kudzu to people that could care less. 0:21:10.840 --> 0:21:13.760 Yeah, and we wouldn't be able to wear those shirts 0:21:13.840 --> 0:21:17.560 that are dyed green from kudzu very proudly outside of 0:21:17.640 --> 0:21:20.440 the South at like family reunions, I may say, ask 0:21:20.560 --> 0:21:22.680 me about my kudzuo dyed shirt. 0:21:23.040 --> 0:21:23.880 Oh is that a thing? 0:21:25.080 --> 0:21:27.640 Not that part, but yes, the dyeing a shirt green 0:21:27.680 --> 0:21:30.520 with kudzu to kind of show your Southern bona fides. 0:21:31.000 --> 0:21:33.280 Never that was a thing. That's super nineties. They also 0:21:33.359 --> 0:21:37.800 sold one that was a horrible color orange. It was 0:21:37.920 --> 0:21:42.919 dyed with red Georgia clay. These are not things that 0:21:42.960 --> 0:21:45.280 anybody should have been wearing, but it kind of goes 0:21:45.320 --> 0:21:47.679 to show like these are the weird things that Southerners 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:49.159 take some sort of pride in. 0:21:49.840 --> 0:21:52.200 Yeah, and when I was a kid, I remember seeing 0:21:52.240 --> 0:21:54.239 the h and probably in some parts of Georgia they 0:21:54.240 --> 0:21:55.800 still have these shirts and bumper stickers. 0:21:56.560 --> 0:21:59.280 Lee surrendered, Robert E. Lee, Lee surrendered. I did not. 0:22:00.560 --> 0:22:02.000 I'm it's so not surprised. 0:22:02.160 --> 0:22:04.000 It never occurred to me as a kid. I was like, well, 0:22:04.040 --> 0:22:06.520 what what are they saying? Like there are they still 0:22:06.520 --> 0:22:09.640 fighting the Civil War? Like they didn't surrender. 0:22:10.119 --> 0:22:13.480 I saw a check once from a guy this is 0:22:13.520 --> 0:22:17.560 not a joke, and he wasn't. This wasn't ironic. His 0:22:17.760 --> 0:22:22.840 address said for the state, the occupied state of Georgia. 0:22:23.119 --> 0:22:24.800 This was in the twenty first century. 0:22:24.960 --> 0:22:27.760 Who's it occupied by the Yankees? 0:22:27.920 --> 0:22:33.120