WEBVTT - Thinking Sideways: Lyle Stevik 0:00:00.200 --> 0:00:02.760 This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you 0:00:02.800 --> 0:00:06.000 by the crevice running through your soul that is threatening 0:00:06.080 --> 0:00:08.920 to break it in half. Instead, it's brought to you 0:00:08.960 --> 0:00:12.760 by cute, little fuzzy critters that are gonna patch it up. 0:00:13.320 --> 0:00:16.880 That's right, ladies and gentlemen. There are lots of critters 0:00:16.920 --> 0:00:18.960 out there who need a home. So if you want 0:00:19.000 --> 0:00:21.680 a kitty, you want a puppy, you want an adult cat, 0:00:21.800 --> 0:00:24.279 an adult dog, you want a bird, you you want 0:00:24.440 --> 0:00:26.680 something else at a possum. You want a possum, You 0:00:26.680 --> 0:00:29.280 can probably adopt a possum. Go to your local animal 0:00:29.320 --> 0:00:33.240 shelter see who they have that are available to take home. 0:00:33.680 --> 0:00:36.080 And if you've already got enough friends at home and 0:00:36.120 --> 0:00:38.080 you can't bring a new one home, remember that they 0:00:38.120 --> 0:00:41.680 can always use your time as a volunteer, or you 0:00:41.680 --> 0:00:45.080 can always donate to the cause. So get out there, 0:00:45.400 --> 0:00:51.280 find that little possum friend and enjoy. But remember he's 0:00:51.400 --> 0:01:15.319 not actually sleeping, he's just playing possum. Thank ye, Hey guys, 0:01:15.480 --> 0:01:19.680 welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast Do 0:01:20.959 --> 0:01:27.280 I Am Devin, Joined as always by Joe and Steve, 0:01:28.000 --> 0:01:30.800 and today we're gonna talk about a mystery I thought 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:35.800 I thought this was the laundry episode. That's sexist, Steve. No, 0:01:36.240 --> 0:01:37.959 I thought it was a laundry episode because I keep 0:01:38.000 --> 0:01:40.920 asking what happened to that other sock and I don't 0:01:40.920 --> 0:01:42.759 know if it disappeared in the washer or the dryer, 0:01:42.800 --> 0:01:44.440 And you guys keep telling me we're going to cover 0:01:44.520 --> 0:01:46.880 that story. Now. That's that's actually I'm saving that kind 0:01:46.920 --> 0:01:50.880 of stuff up for my Matrix episode. Okay, yeah, gotcha there, 0:01:50.880 --> 0:01:53.520 because we do live in the Matrix kids, I know. Yeah, 0:01:53.760 --> 0:01:58.400 today we're actually going to talk about the identity of 0:01:59.040 --> 0:02:05.280 Lyle Stept. This episode has been suggested and requested by 0:02:05.520 --> 0:02:10.000 pretty much everybody once a month or two at least. Yeah, 0:02:10.000 --> 0:02:12.320 and usually we're like, we'll do it soon, I guess 0:02:12.440 --> 0:02:15.000 or whatever. So good news, we're doing it now. We're 0:02:15.040 --> 0:02:17.919 just waiting to see if somebody who is true identity. Yeah. 0:02:17.960 --> 0:02:21.440 I do want to preface this by saying that I 0:02:21.560 --> 0:02:24.160 know this case is a lot of people's pet case. 0:02:24.320 --> 0:02:25.799 You know, it's the one that you do the most 0:02:25.840 --> 0:02:27.920 research on. A lot of people are kind of obsessed 0:02:27.919 --> 0:02:30.000 with this one. Yeah, they are, And we are going 0:02:30.080 --> 0:02:32.960 to try to keep this episode to our normal time 0:02:33.000 --> 0:02:35.399 of you know, about an hour, so we are very 0:02:35.480 --> 0:02:38.120 likely going to leave some things out, and the things 0:02:38.120 --> 0:02:40.800 that we leave out may end up being your favorite detail. 0:02:41.080 --> 0:02:43.399 Sorry about that. You probably have listened to the show 0:02:43.400 --> 0:02:45.880 before you know how it goes. If if we leave 0:02:45.919 --> 0:02:52.440 out your favorite detail, we encourage you to engage in 0:02:52.440 --> 0:02:56.360 the discussion that's happening online, particularly in public forums, because 0:02:56.400 --> 0:02:58.240 it's way more interesting when we can get a bunch 0:02:58.280 --> 0:03:01.640 of people involved in the conversation. UM. But you know, 0:03:02.080 --> 0:03:04.960 just bear that in mind. Bear that in mind, please, 0:03:05.040 --> 0:03:07.760 because there are a lot of little details to this 0:03:07.800 --> 0:03:10.040 story that may or may not be pertinent. I could 0:03:10.040 --> 0:03:12.560 I could easily see somebody taking this on and being 0:03:12.600 --> 0:03:16.120 a half half season, it could probably it could probably 0:03:16.120 --> 0:03:18.400 be an entire show. Maybe Yeah, I guess you could 0:03:18.400 --> 0:03:21.119 do that, but I don't know. People have done more 0:03:21.120 --> 0:03:23.440 with less. That's a good point. I'd rather keep it 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:27.560 to UM. And then a final disclaimer before we really 0:03:27.600 --> 0:03:30.720 get into it. There's a bit of a small ears 0:03:30.760 --> 0:03:34.160 warning because we do talk about suicide a bit. Other 0:03:34.240 --> 0:03:38.680 than that, it's a pretty safe episode, so your own discretion. Okay, 0:03:38.840 --> 0:03:44.320 let's get into it. On September six, one Lyle Stevick 0:03:44.640 --> 0:03:47.160 was found hanging by a belt in a hotel room 0:03:47.160 --> 0:03:51.280 he'd rented in Amanda Park, Washington. Where's that in Washington 0:03:52.240 --> 0:03:55.720 on the state, Yes, just kidding, Yeah, Actually, you know 0:03:55.760 --> 0:03:59.240 it's funny. I'm pretty sure I've driven by Amanda Park, Yeah, 0:03:59.240 --> 0:04:02.119 because I was going up through the Olympic National Forest. Yeah, 0:04:02.360 --> 0:04:04.880 and the may I can't remember the name that what 0:04:05.200 --> 0:04:09.320 number of highway it is that that goes Manda Park? Okay, 0:04:09.440 --> 0:04:12.640 probably did, Yeah, because I remember driving up there like 0:04:12.960 --> 0:04:15.120 a kind of a white spot in the road. But yeah, no, 0:04:15.240 --> 0:04:18.720 but yeah, but it's it's just in the Olympics, said, 0:04:18.760 --> 0:04:24.120 but it's beautiful, beautiful country. Yeah. So police did a 0:04:24.120 --> 0:04:27.120 search for next of kin and they found out that 0:04:27.279 --> 0:04:32.800 Lyle Stevick was probably a fake name, possibly from a book. 0:04:33.400 --> 0:04:36.039 It's a seven book. A lot of places on the 0:04:36.080 --> 0:04:38.400 internet you'll see it referred to as like a nine 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:43.039 or book. But I believe the first edition came out 0:04:43.040 --> 0:04:47.080 in eighty seven called You Must Remember This Not the podcast. 0:04:47.279 --> 0:04:50.240 Apparently the author is Joyce Carol Oates got some some 0:04:50.279 --> 0:04:53.760 inquiries about this, has said that it's just a made 0:04:53.800 --> 0:04:55.760 up name. It means nothing to me. It just I 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:58.839 just made it up and made up the whole Stevic family. 0:04:59.200 --> 0:05:03.039 You're not. Yeah, let's go ahead and talk about the 0:05:03.120 --> 0:05:05.600 events leading up to and his death, and then we'll 0:05:05.640 --> 0:05:07.640 talk about some more details and then we'll talk about theories. 0:05:07.720 --> 0:05:12.919 Perfect just like to give everybody roadmap. The most definitive timeline. 0:05:13.040 --> 0:05:16.279 Timeline we have for Lyle starts literally three days before 0:05:16.279 --> 0:05:19.120 his death, when he checked into the hotel that he 0:05:19.120 --> 0:05:22.960 would ultimately kill himself in. He had maybe arrived by 0:05:22.960 --> 0:05:26.560 bus a few hours earlier, most likely on a bus 0:05:26.600 --> 0:05:30.200 from Port Angelis, Washington, which was a southbound bus heading 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:33.800 south because Port Angelis is on the northern tip of 0:05:33.800 --> 0:05:36.240 the state. Huh um. But a bus had come in 0:05:36.279 --> 0:05:40.080 from Aberdeen, Washington, which was a northbound bus because I 0:05:40.160 --> 0:05:42.479 was south on the southern end of the state pretty 0:05:42.560 --> 0:05:46.400 much about the same time. And when investigators checked with 0:05:46.560 --> 0:05:51.000 the two bus drivers, they didn't recognize him. But I 0:05:51.200 --> 0:05:55.240 suspect bus drivers don't recognize most of their unless you 0:05:55.279 --> 0:05:57.920 make a ruckus on the bus and give them cause 0:05:58.120 --> 0:06:01.279 to take note of who you are. Yeah, probably not. 0:06:01.400 --> 0:06:04.080 And it seems like Lyle was a pretty non I mean, 0:06:04.279 --> 0:06:09.320 he himself is not. He's actually a striking looking Yeah, 0:06:09.360 --> 0:06:12.240 but I think he Yeah, you're right, was but I 0:06:12.279 --> 0:06:16.880 think he, um, he didn't seem to really make himself known. No, no, 0:06:17.120 --> 0:06:19.400 for sure, and probably the bus driver is just like 0:06:19.560 --> 0:06:21.800 looking at your ticket, anyone not looking at you. Yeah, 0:06:21.880 --> 0:06:23.360 and then if you just you know, sit in your 0:06:23.360 --> 0:06:26.680 seat quietly and get off in a normal spot, you're 0:06:26.920 --> 0:06:30.479 you're probably not going to be noticed. But again, somebody 0:06:30.520 --> 0:06:32.320 could have just dropped him off. He could have hitched 0:06:32.320 --> 0:06:34.600 act or somebody actually a friend could have driven him 0:06:34.600 --> 0:06:36.440 there and dropped him off, or he could have walked. 0:06:36.480 --> 0:06:39.040 I mean probably not. But the aliens could have deposited him. 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:44.720 We don't know so, but we're pretty sure that he 0:06:45.000 --> 0:06:47.760 was on the bus. The most likely is that he 0:06:47.800 --> 0:06:50.680 was on the bus from Port Angeles, so southbound from 0:06:50.760 --> 0:06:54.359 camp it would been from like the northernmost part of Washington, 0:06:54.440 --> 0:06:58.479 basically nor the most reaches. Yeah, pretty much. Actually, you know, 0:06:58.520 --> 0:07:00.880 he could have come from can don't know, there's various 0:07:00.920 --> 0:07:04.919 to Port Angeles from Canada. Yeah, but for all in 0:07:04.920 --> 0:07:06.840 times and purposes, we can say he was most likely 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:10.080 coming south. Lyle didn't have any luggage when he checked 0:07:10.080 --> 0:07:13.200 in the hotel, Although there is some discussion about whether 0:07:13.280 --> 0:07:16.480 or not he had a backpack. In any case, even 0:07:16.520 --> 0:07:18.920 if he did check in with a backpack, it wasn't 0:07:19.000 --> 0:07:22.760 in his room when he died. He only had a 0:07:22.800 --> 0:07:26.680 couple of things. Really, yeah, really he had like some 0:07:26.760 --> 0:07:30.760 money and then m a toothbrush and toothpaste was really 0:07:30.760 --> 0:07:33.400 the only things that could even qualify as personal belongings 0:07:33.400 --> 0:07:38.200 that he had in his room. Peter was his name, Yeah, 0:07:38.880 --> 0:07:43.160 Peter Bergman. Yeah. So, like we said, he checked in 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:46.640 the hotel on the fourteenth of September two thousand one. 0:07:47.120 --> 0:07:50.120 He paid for one night cash, but he said he 0:07:50.160 --> 0:07:52.360 was probably going to stay more nights, and he ended 0:07:52.440 --> 0:07:55.840 up staying three nights. He was initially put in room eight, 0:07:56.120 --> 0:07:58.600 which was the room that was at the very end 0:07:58.640 --> 0:08:02.040 of the a motel hotel sort of. It was. It 0:08:02.120 --> 0:08:06.679 was almost like little cottages that were two motel rooms 0:08:07.000 --> 0:08:09.320 in a building and then there would be space between 0:08:09.400 --> 0:08:11.760 him and then another one that had two rooms. And 0:08:11.800 --> 0:08:13.800 it was one of those kind of places, not like 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:17.640 the motel eight, which is just one giant room. Yeah, 0:08:18.000 --> 0:08:19.960 it's a town that size is not going to have 0:08:20.000 --> 0:08:23.520 a big no no, but just I think room eight 0:08:23.640 --> 0:08:28.120 was literally the last room. I think there were eight rooms. Um, 0:08:28.200 --> 0:08:30.280 So what happened is he got put in room eight, 0:08:30.560 --> 0:08:33.240 and then he came back a couple hours later to 0:08:33.360 --> 0:08:36.840 the front desk and said, you know that trailer park 0:08:36.920 --> 0:08:40.120 that's right next door. It's it's too loud. I'm having 0:08:40.160 --> 0:08:43.960 a hard time getting settled. Can I change rooms? And 0:08:44.080 --> 0:08:47.000 she said, She said that when he had first checked in, 0:08:47.200 --> 0:08:50.280 he just seemed, you know, nice um, But when he 0:08:50.320 --> 0:08:54.480 came back this second time, he made her feel uncomfortable 0:08:54.559 --> 0:08:56.720 and he seemed kind of like he was spaced out. 0:08:57.240 --> 0:08:59.760 But she said, okay, did you do anything in that 0:08:59.840 --> 0:09:01.520 room him? I think she probably thought maybe he was 0:09:01.559 --> 0:09:03.920 doing drugs or something, you know, she said, did you 0:09:03.960 --> 0:09:05.640 do anything that room? He said, well, I just messed 0:09:05.640 --> 0:09:08.240 with the pillows a little bit. And she explicitly apparently 0:09:08.280 --> 0:09:10.720 said did you take a shower? And he said no, 0:09:10.840 --> 0:09:12.960 and she said all right, and put him in room five, 0:09:13.120 --> 0:09:15.800 and that's where he stayed for all three nights. It 0:09:15.880 --> 0:09:18.800 did turn out that he had actually taken a shower 0:09:19.360 --> 0:09:23.599 in room eight. So I don't know what's up with that, Why, 0:09:23.400 --> 0:09:26.200 why she was concerned about it. You would have had 0:09:26.200 --> 0:09:29.840 to change out all I don't know why, right, yes, 0:09:29.920 --> 0:09:34.000 but I don't totally understand why he lied about it 0:09:34.160 --> 0:09:35.760 or why that. I mean, I guess he could have 0:09:35.760 --> 0:09:39.880 been motivation is to change rooms. He's going to appease 0:09:39.960 --> 0:09:42.960 her and tell her he did nothing, no matter what 0:09:43.040 --> 0:09:46.840 he actually did. Fair enough, Yeah, but just like a 0:09:46.840 --> 0:09:50.760 little good I guess it's dumb. Yeah. And as mentioned 0:09:50.920 --> 0:09:54.000 the reason that the clerk let him check in without 0:09:54.080 --> 0:09:56.480 I D, I guess, you know, again, small town, they're 0:09:56.480 --> 0:09:59.240 a little more lenient, So she did let him check 0:09:59.240 --> 0:10:01.320 in without I D. But she said that she let 0:10:01.400 --> 0:10:03.319 him check in without idea because he seemed like a 0:10:03.400 --> 0:10:06.280 nice guy, seemed like an okay Yeah, and then you know, 0:10:06.280 --> 0:10:08.200 a couple of hours later she was describing him as 0:10:08.280 --> 0:10:11.760 kind of off and making her uncomfortable. So I really know. 0:10:11.880 --> 0:10:14.040 She said that she thought that he might have had 0:10:14.080 --> 0:10:16.840 a slight Canadian accent, But I also think that that 0:10:16.880 --> 0:10:20.880 could mean a lot of different things. Again, especially since 0:10:20.920 --> 0:10:23.640 it's such a small place and it is more north, 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:26.920 it's so totally possible that she just, you know, any 0:10:26.960 --> 0:10:30.040 accents out kind of Canadian to her. You know, there's 0:10:30.040 --> 0:10:32.800 certainly there's a whole host of accents that if you're 0:10:32.800 --> 0:10:35.559 not really paying attention and they're very subtle. People can 0:10:35.640 --> 0:10:41.120 incorrectly apply them to another nationality. He probably just mispronounced 0:10:41.120 --> 0:10:42.920 a word or two and she thought, well, it's I mean, 0:10:42.920 --> 0:10:44.760 that's so close to Canada there, you gotta get lots 0:10:44.760 --> 0:10:46.760 of Canadians there, and she's probably just saw maybe a 0:10:46.800 --> 0:10:50.800 Canadian by mispronouncing, saying Canadians mispronounced. But they say things like, 0:10:50.840 --> 0:10:53.079 you know, a boat instead of about and things like that. 0:10:53.160 --> 0:10:58.680 You know, after that first day, the next day, Friday, no, 0:10:58.800 --> 0:11:03.920 we didn't right that. It was a pretty uneventful day. 0:11:04.040 --> 0:11:07.960 I've seen reports that Lyle was seen pacing up and 0:11:07.960 --> 0:11:11.120 down the highway, but I think that that by the 0:11:11.160 --> 0:11:13.360 side of the highway. I well, yeah, the side of 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.559 the highway. But I actually think that that's a misunderstanding 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.840 of what actually was happening, which was that hotel staff 0:11:19.920 --> 0:11:22.600 reported that he was seen walking up and down hallways 0:11:22.880 --> 0:11:26.720 in like in the motel area. Halways they're little bungalows. 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:30.920 There's you could call it a hallway between things. Okay, 0:11:31.000 --> 0:11:33.520 I would I would not call that a hallway. But 0:11:33.600 --> 0:11:36.520 I also think that if he was walking into the town, 0:11:37.440 --> 0:11:39.400 the only way to get to town is to walk 0:11:39.400 --> 0:11:41.360 down the side of the highway, So I think that's 0:11:41.400 --> 0:11:44.120 where that came from. I just I read an interview 0:11:44.160 --> 0:11:46.400 will that we'll talk about a little later with the 0:11:46.600 --> 0:11:50.160 woman who's the daughter of the maid that found Lyle, 0:11:50.800 --> 0:11:53.160 and she had one of the things she said is 0:11:53.200 --> 0:11:55.920 that she had seen him pacing up and down the hallway, 0:11:56.120 --> 0:12:00.120 is what she called it. So I don't know at 0:12:00.160 --> 0:12:02.480 the time. I mean, the guy had no reading with 0:12:02.559 --> 0:12:06.440 serial in this room. Well he did, he had the newspapers, yeah, 0:12:06.480 --> 0:12:08.640 but I mean other than that though, And you know, 0:12:08.720 --> 0:12:10.440 and he was pacing up and down the side the highway. 0:12:10.480 --> 0:12:12.480 Maybe he was waiting for the bus, yeah, you know, 0:12:12.640 --> 0:12:16.839 or something like that. On the sixteenth, Again, not really 0:12:16.840 --> 0:12:20.800 totally clear what happened. There are some discrepancies in reporting 0:12:21.280 --> 0:12:24.200 he was His body was found on the seventeen. They 0:12:24.240 --> 0:12:27.920 believe he hung himself either really late on the night 0:12:28.000 --> 0:12:31.560 of the sixteen or maybe really early the seventeenth, but 0:12:31.679 --> 0:12:35.040 probably Sunday night. Yeah, it's hard to say, and that 0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.160 it depending on who is telling this in written form 0:12:38.160 --> 0:12:41.320 on the internet. It can make it very very confusing. 0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:43.840 When I first read your stuff, it's like that the 0:12:44.000 --> 0:12:47.360 days are totally off because I had just gotten finished 0:12:47.400 --> 0:12:51.959 reading one that I realized had totally bungled the time. Yeah, 0:12:52.040 --> 0:12:54.160 it's a it's a kind of weird time frame because 0:12:54.200 --> 0:12:57.120 I think people want to truncate it a lot because 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:01.600 there's no information on those two days. But tween people 0:13:01.640 --> 0:13:03.360 are just like, he checked in and then he died, 0:13:03.480 --> 0:13:06.240 but there's two days something. One of the things that 0:13:06.559 --> 0:13:08.760 I haven't seen anything about is what did he do 0:13:08.840 --> 0:13:11.960 for food the entire time? Did anybody check the local 0:13:12.000 --> 0:13:13.920 store to see if you wanted and bought like doughnuts 0:13:13.960 --> 0:13:19.800 and milk? Yeah. Well, one of the things somebody brought up, 0:13:19.840 --> 0:13:22.200 which I think is actually probably a pretty good theory, 0:13:22.320 --> 0:13:24.079 is there was a barber in town and maybe he 0:13:24.120 --> 0:13:25.920 went in for a haircut in a shave because he 0:13:26.000 --> 0:13:30.160 was clean shaven and his hair was but he had 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:32.559 no rasor. Again, this is this is a little car 0:13:32.600 --> 0:13:35.160 before the horse. So, as I mentioned, you may have 0:13:35.240 --> 0:13:39.600 missed it. He did ultimately end up hanging himself, but 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:43.440 it was his method of suicide. He had hung himself 0:13:43.520 --> 0:13:46.360 with his belt and a green There was a green 0:13:46.400 --> 0:13:49.320 washcloth between his neck and the belt. There are some 0:13:49.720 --> 0:13:53.240 not safe for life photos on the internet. They're super 0:13:53.240 --> 0:13:56.199 easy to find, and the thing that's very weird about 0:13:56.240 --> 0:14:00.439 these photos is they are like disturbingly not to sturbing 0:14:00.480 --> 0:14:02.760 to look at. Did you guys look at that kind 0:14:02.760 --> 0:14:09.120 of placid? Yeah, they're very calm. There's no violence. It's 0:14:09.200 --> 0:14:11.960 just and you know, it's it's I don't know, maybe 0:14:12.120 --> 0:14:14.200 something with the tone of the pictures, like the actual 0:14:14.240 --> 0:14:16.640 color tone of the pictures or something, but it's just 0:14:16.720 --> 0:14:20.080 kind of like, oh, that's interesting, not like, oh God, 0:14:20.080 --> 0:14:23.040 that's a dead human hanging there, but it is a 0:14:23.040 --> 0:14:25.280 dead human hanging there. Yeah, that's the whole thing. It's like, 0:14:25.360 --> 0:14:27.680 there's this there's this guyline there, and didn't you realize 0:14:27.960 --> 0:14:30.680 the poor guy is dead? That sucks. It just looks 0:14:30.800 --> 0:14:35.840 like sleeping, like kind of like that Mary Anderson, right, 0:14:36.360 --> 0:14:38.920 she just looked like she was sleeping. So, as mentioned, 0:14:39.000 --> 0:14:41.360 he hung himself with his belt. The there was that 0:14:41.440 --> 0:14:44.240 washcloth in between the belt and the green net, the 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.600 green wash cloth. The buckle was facing his chin, and 0:14:47.720 --> 0:14:51.400 he tied the other end of the belt around the 0:14:51.440 --> 0:14:54.240 metal pole. And they call it an alcove in the 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.000 motel room. It's the closet. It's like a closet with 0:14:57.040 --> 0:14:59.280 no doors and the metal pole is it's one of 0:14:59.280 --> 0:15:01.680 those metal actually see in hotels that you're supposed to 0:15:01.720 --> 0:15:04.480 set your suitcase on, but it's and it's above head high, 0:15:05.240 --> 0:15:07.120 head high. Yeah, this one is higher than they normal 0:15:07.200 --> 0:15:09.600 you normally see them in a hotel. Well, now see, 0:15:09.640 --> 0:15:11.640 I've seen this before. So what you're thinking of is 0:15:11.640 --> 0:15:14.320 those little foldable ones that are that you would set 0:15:14.360 --> 0:15:17.160 your suitcase on. I think now this, I've seen this 0:15:17.280 --> 0:15:20.040 kind before, and they're usually at about eye levels so 0:15:20.080 --> 0:15:21.840 that they can be used to you know, with the 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:24.200 hanger shirts and hang your shirts and stuff like that. 0:15:24.240 --> 0:15:26.880 But then it's also got the platform on top and 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:28.920 they intend for you to put your bag up there 0:15:29.160 --> 0:15:31.680 rather than the little folding one. But I've seen these 0:15:31.720 --> 0:15:34.600 a whole bunch. Yeah. They also sometimes store extra pillows 0:15:34.640 --> 0:15:38.240 and stuff like that, or the iron if they provide 0:15:38.240 --> 0:15:41.160 an iron. Yeah, they always provide an iron. If they 0:15:41.240 --> 0:15:44.600 provide an iron, always provide. I always make them take 0:15:44.640 --> 0:15:49.080 it away. I can only hurt myself with this thing. Yeah. 0:15:49.120 --> 0:15:52.960 So he he was not hanging off the ground. He 0:15:53.040 --> 0:15:57.360 was kind of a like a kneeling he he was 0:15:57.520 --> 0:16:01.040 very committed to this act. Yes, and he was facing 0:16:01.080 --> 0:16:03.760 the back of the wall, so he was taking into 0:16:03.800 --> 0:16:07.880 the alcove. His head was tilted up towards the sky 0:16:08.080 --> 0:16:10.600 or so it's the ceiling um, and he had hung 0:16:10.800 --> 0:16:14.520 pillows on either side of the little alcove that he 0:16:14.600 --> 0:16:18.920 was in, presumably to avoid making noise, because do you 0:16:19.000 --> 0:16:23.040 automatically are going to thrash when you really did not 0:16:23.120 --> 0:16:26.440 look like he thrashed. I mean, he probably did, I mean, 0:16:26.560 --> 0:16:30.360 just because he hung pillows and they absorbed the blows. 0:16:30.440 --> 0:16:32.520 But I mean, it doesn't look to me like he 0:16:32.560 --> 0:16:35.080 did either, because what he did is by hanging, he 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:38.840 stuffed the pillows between the side the side and the 0:16:38.880 --> 0:16:41.520 size of that metal thing in the wall, just stuffed 0:16:41.560 --> 0:16:44.600 them in there very tidily and nicely. And if he thrashed, 0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:46.080 I would think they would have been knocked askew a 0:16:46.120 --> 0:16:49.280 little bit, but they're perfectly perfectly aligned with each other, 0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:52.760 and so who knows. It doesn't really matter yet, But 0:16:52.840 --> 0:16:54.800 the fact is if he if he did thrash, nobody 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.320 heard of anyway. The weird thing, though, is that because 0:16:57.400 --> 0:17:01.600 that shelf was so low, his knees were barely off 0:17:01.640 --> 0:17:04.439 the ground. That's that's why I say that he was 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:07.040 so very committed to keep doing what he was doing. 0:17:07.080 --> 0:17:10.960 He could have very easily just stood up or even 0:17:11.000 --> 0:17:15.760 like I mean like literally any almost any movement would 0:17:15.760 --> 0:17:18.440 have probably stopped the process from him. So I think 0:17:18.480 --> 0:17:20.040 that's one of the things that does strike a lot 0:17:20.080 --> 0:17:23.200 of people about this case is that he Yeah. I mean, 0:17:23.440 --> 0:17:24.720 you know, there's a lot of things about it. I 0:17:24.760 --> 0:17:26.679 mean there's a lot of example, like you said he 0:17:26.760 --> 0:17:28.560 was like he said he was, he was clean shaven, 0:17:29.000 --> 0:17:32.160 going to kill yourself? Why bother shaving? He was clean shaven, 0:17:32.400 --> 0:17:34.640 and but he didn't have a razor, But why why 0:17:34.680 --> 0:17:36.639 bother going into the barber to get a shave? And 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.840 that's you know, you know, it's weird. There's a lot 0:17:39.840 --> 0:17:42.560 of weird things about this. Pacing by the highway makes 0:17:42.600 --> 0:17:46.359 me wonder. So since he was recently deceased, it was 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:49.600 easy to get his fingerprints, his dental records, and his DNA. 0:17:50.200 --> 0:17:54.400 The d N A I will say I have I 0:17:54.480 --> 0:17:57.080 know is saliva DNA. So they can't send it for 0:17:57.119 --> 0:17:59.520 a lot of the DNA testing that they would otherwise 0:17:59.520 --> 0:18:03.040 be able to end it for for science reasons. I 0:18:03.119 --> 0:18:06.040 don't understand the science mind it, but they're science reason, 0:18:07.440 --> 0:18:09.399 I think, I think, yeah, but I think they have 0:18:09.480 --> 0:18:12.720 some way it doesn't matter anyway. They can't. They can't 0:18:12.800 --> 0:18:16.760 do the um what was it, the mitochondrial DNA. Oh yeah, 0:18:16.800 --> 0:18:20.160 maybe that's the one where they can trace the family tree. Yah, 0:18:20.200 --> 0:18:22.879 they can't do that one. They can't. Why not because 0:18:22.960 --> 0:18:26.400 I don't know reason, But I thought they did because 0:18:26.440 --> 0:18:29.240 that's how you did it when it's like the twenty 0:18:29.240 --> 0:18:32.000 three and me, when you like send in your DNA 0:18:32.240 --> 0:18:36.600 for like your genetic analysis. So I don't really understand why. 0:18:36.920 --> 0:18:39.680 I have just seen from the you know, the people 0:18:39.680 --> 0:18:43.120 who have been really really committed to this case online, 0:18:43.200 --> 0:18:46.840 reading through their kind of conversations, seeing that yes, we 0:18:46.840 --> 0:18:49.680 we wanted to send it, but you know, the saliva DNA. 0:18:49.880 --> 0:18:52.320 For whatever reason, the saliva DNA we have, we need 0:18:52.520 --> 0:18:55.639 something to test it against. We can't just by you 0:18:55.680 --> 0:18:57.920 know what. That's another thing that makes me wonder about 0:18:57.920 --> 0:18:59.520 this one is why nobody has just done a general 0:18:59.560 --> 0:19:02.840 test to see was what his ethnicity is? Well, so 0:19:02.920 --> 0:19:05.480 that one's a bit question about it. That is actually 0:19:05.520 --> 0:19:10.919 a bit of um A thing. Yeah, I I don't know. 0:19:11.040 --> 0:19:14.760 I don't think that there is actual lack of consensus. 0:19:14.840 --> 0:19:18.560 They think that the actual investigators are pretty agreed on 0:19:18.600 --> 0:19:23.159 what his ethnicity is but yeah, the internet, Who's just 0:19:23.200 --> 0:19:24.520 like but I don't know, he looks kind of like 0:19:24.560 --> 0:19:26.560 he might be this, which is true. I mean he 0:19:26.600 --> 0:19:28.520 does look you could kind of just put him in 0:19:28.600 --> 0:19:31.119 a lot of different ethnicity. He could be Hispanic, he 0:19:31.160 --> 0:19:33.760 could be American, Indian, he could be Arabs. There's a 0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:37.000 lot a lot of different we'll talk about all of that. 0:19:37.400 --> 0:19:41.200 A full isotope report is available online. It's twenty nine 0:19:41.200 --> 0:19:44.560 pages long. We'll talk about some of that a little bit, 0:19:44.640 --> 0:19:46.320 but we're not going to go too far into that. 0:19:46.359 --> 0:19:48.280 So if that's the sort of thing that does interest you, 0:19:48.280 --> 0:19:52.520 you should look at that. Super easy to find. But 0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:55.520 I want to keep talking about Lyles, the room and 0:19:55.560 --> 0:19:58.359 all of that stuff. Lyle was found by the maid 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:02.479 she had. She knocked on the door to try to 0:20:03.040 --> 0:20:05.880 clean the room, and she said that when she went 0:20:05.920 --> 0:20:08.600 in the first time, she thought he was praying in 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:12.159 the alcove. She just kind of saw his knees and 0:20:12.359 --> 0:20:15.400 saw him. You know, she does what every maid does 0:20:15.440 --> 0:20:17.560 when they opened the room and they see that somebody 0:20:17.600 --> 0:20:19.719 is there and probably doing something that they don't want 0:20:19.720 --> 0:20:24.600 to be observed. She went closes the door quietly and 0:20:24.680 --> 0:20:27.400 goes on about her business. She's probably that auto urotic 0:20:27.480 --> 0:20:30.440 that thing. No, I think she probably just like saw 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:34.040 his feet and was like, okay, whoops, sorry, you know, sorry, sir, 0:20:34.480 --> 0:20:37.160 you know, I'll come back later. Later. She came back 0:20:37.160 --> 0:20:39.040 with a manager and they called the cops when they 0:20:39.040 --> 0:20:40.920 realized what had happened. And yeah, the manager is the 0:20:40.960 --> 0:20:43.360 one that went in and realized what was going on. Yeah, Um, 0:20:43.400 --> 0:20:46.480 he had left a hundred and sixty dollars exactly in 0:20:46.560 --> 0:20:49.640 twenty dollar bills and a note saying for the room, 0:20:49.760 --> 0:20:51.680 because you remember, he'd only paid for that first night. 0:20:52.040 --> 0:20:54.840 Hundred sixty dollars happens to be exactly what he owed 0:20:54.960 --> 0:20:57.920 for the other two nights. It looks like I've heard 0:20:57.920 --> 0:21:00.160 it said on the on the inter website, they were 0:21:00.240 --> 0:21:04.200 very crisp, brand new twenty dollar bills. They looked pretty crisp, 0:21:04.240 --> 0:21:06.480 and they look at the pictures, they look pretty crisp. Yeah. 0:21:06.520 --> 0:21:08.639 That's what I want to know is are they truly authentically, 0:21:08.680 --> 0:21:11.760 you know, really super new crisp twenty dollar bills. I 0:21:11.800 --> 0:21:14.040 don't I don't know. I don't know the answer to that, Joe. 0:21:14.040 --> 0:21:18.000 I'm sorry, I know it's crazy. Those are the sort 0:21:18.040 --> 0:21:19.679 of things that would be like really nice to know, 0:21:19.760 --> 0:21:22.280 but I don't think people really ask that question a lot. 0:21:22.680 --> 0:21:26.679 He had eight additional dollar bills crumpled in his pocket 0:21:26.800 --> 0:21:29.840