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Speaker 1: This episode of Thinking Sideways is not brought to you

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Speaker 1: by the crevice running through your soul that is threatening

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Speaker 1: to break it in half. Instead, it's brought to you

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Speaker 1: by cute, little fuzzy critters that are gonna patch it up.

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Speaker 1: That's right, ladies and gentlemen. There are lots of critters

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Speaker 1: out there who need a home. So if you want

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Speaker 1: a kitty, you want a puppy, you want an adult cat,

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Speaker 1: an adult dog, you want a bird, you you want

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Speaker 1: something else at a possum. You want a possum, You

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Speaker 1: can probably adopt a possum. Go to your local animal

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Speaker 1: shelter see who they have that are available to take home.

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Speaker 1: And if you've already got enough friends at home and

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Speaker 1: you can't bring a new one home, remember that they

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Speaker 1: can always use your time as a volunteer, or you

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Speaker 1: can always donate to the cause. So get out there,

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Speaker 1: find that little possum friend and enjoy. But remember he's

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Speaker 1: not actually sleeping, he's just playing possum. Thank ye, Hey guys,

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Speaker 1: welcome to another episode of Thinking Sideways the podcast Do

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Speaker 1: I Am Devin, Joined as always by Joe and Steve,

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Speaker 1: and today we're gonna talk about a mystery I thought

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Speaker 1: I thought this was the laundry episode. That's sexist, Steve. No,

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Speaker 1: I thought it was a laundry episode because I keep

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Speaker 1: asking what happened to that other sock and I don't

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Speaker 1: know if it disappeared in the washer or the dryer,

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Speaker 1: And you guys keep telling me we're going to cover

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Speaker 1: that story. Now. That's that's actually I'm saving that kind

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Speaker 1: of stuff up for my Matrix episode. Okay, yeah, gotcha there,

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Speaker 1: because we do live in the Matrix kids, I know. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: today we're actually going to talk about the identity of

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Speaker 1: Lyle Stept. This episode has been suggested and requested by

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Speaker 1: pretty much everybody once a month or two at least. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and usually we're like, we'll do it soon, I guess

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Speaker 1: or whatever. So good news, we're doing it now. We're

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Speaker 1: just waiting to see if somebody who is true identity. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I do want to preface this by saying that I

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Speaker 1: know this case is a lot of people's pet case.

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Speaker 1: You know, it's the one that you do the most

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Speaker 1: research on. A lot of people are kind of obsessed

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Speaker 1: with this one. Yeah, they are, And we are going

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Speaker 1: to try to keep this episode to our normal time

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Speaker 1: of you know, about an hour, so we are very

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Speaker 1: likely going to leave some things out, and the things

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Speaker 1: that we leave out may end up being your favorite detail.

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Speaker 1: Sorry about that. You probably have listened to the show

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Speaker 1: before you know how it goes. If if we leave

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Speaker 1: out your favorite detail, we encourage you to engage in

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Speaker 1: the discussion that's happening online, particularly in public forums, because

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Speaker 1: it's way more interesting when we can get a bunch

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Speaker 1: of people involved in the conversation. UM. But you know,

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Speaker 1: just bear that in mind. Bear that in mind, please,

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Speaker 1: because there are a lot of little details to this

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Speaker 1: story that may or may not be pertinent. I could

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Speaker 1: I could easily see somebody taking this on and being

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Speaker 1: a half half season, it could probably it could probably

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Speaker 1: be an entire show. Maybe Yeah, I guess you could

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Speaker 1: do that, but I don't know. People have done more

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Speaker 1: with less. That's a good point. I'd rather keep it

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Speaker 1: to UM. And then a final disclaimer before we really

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Speaker 1: get into it. There's a bit of a small ears

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Speaker 1: warning because we do talk about suicide a bit. Other

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Speaker 1: than that, it's a pretty safe episode, so your own discretion. Okay,

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Speaker 1: let's get into it. On September six, one Lyle Stevick

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Speaker 1: was found hanging by a belt in a hotel room

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Speaker 1: he'd rented in Amanda Park, Washington. Where's that in Washington

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Speaker 1: on the state, Yes, just kidding, Yeah, Actually, you know

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Speaker 1: it's funny. I'm pretty sure I've driven by Amanda Park, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: because I was going up through the Olympic National Forest. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and the may I can't remember the name that what

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Speaker 1: number of highway it is that that goes Manda Park? Okay,

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Speaker 1: probably did, Yeah, because I remember driving up there like

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Speaker 1: a kind of a white spot in the road. But yeah, no,

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Speaker 1: but yeah, but it's it's just in the Olympics, said,

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Speaker 1: but it's beautiful, beautiful country. Yeah. So police did a

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Speaker 1: search for next of kin and they found out that

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Speaker 1: Lyle Stevick was probably a fake name, possibly from a book.

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Speaker 1: It's a seven book. A lot of places on the

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Speaker 1: internet you'll see it referred to as like a nine

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Speaker 1: or book. But I believe the first edition came out

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Speaker 1: in eighty seven called You Must Remember This Not the podcast.

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Speaker 1: Apparently the author is Joyce Carol Oates got some some

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Speaker 1: inquiries about this, has said that it's just a made

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Speaker 1: up name. It means nothing to me. It just I

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Speaker 1: just made it up and made up the whole Stevic family.

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Speaker 1: You're not. Yeah, let's go ahead and talk about the

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Speaker 1: events leading up to and his death, and then we'll

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Speaker 1: talk about some more details and then we'll talk about theories.

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Speaker 1: Perfect just like to give everybody roadmap. The most definitive timeline.

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Speaker 1: Timeline we have for Lyle starts literally three days before

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Speaker 1: his death, when he checked into the hotel that he

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Speaker 1: would ultimately kill himself in. He had maybe arrived by

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Speaker 1: bus a few hours earlier, most likely on a bus

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Speaker 1: from Port Angelis, Washington, which was a southbound bus heading

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Speaker 1: south because Port Angelis is on the northern tip of

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Speaker 1: the state. Huh um. But a bus had come in

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Speaker 1: from Aberdeen, Washington, which was a northbound bus because I

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Speaker 1: was south on the southern end of the state pretty

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Speaker 1: much about the same time. And when investigators checked with

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Speaker 1: the two bus drivers, they didn't recognize him. But I

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Speaker 1: suspect bus drivers don't recognize most of their unless you

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Speaker 1: make a ruckus on the bus and give them cause

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Speaker 1: to take note of who you are. Yeah, probably not.

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Speaker 1: And it seems like Lyle was a pretty non I mean,

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Speaker 1: he himself is not. He's actually a striking looking Yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I think he Yeah, you're right, was but I

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Speaker 1: think he, um, he didn't seem to really make himself known. No, no,

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Speaker 1: for sure, and probably the bus driver is just like

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Speaker 1: looking at your ticket, anyone not looking at you. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: and then if you just you know, sit in your

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Speaker 1: seat quietly and get off in a normal spot, you're

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Speaker 1: you're probably not going to be noticed. But again, somebody

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Speaker 1: could have just dropped him off. He could have hitched

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Speaker 1: act or somebody actually a friend could have driven him

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Speaker 1: there and dropped him off, or he could have walked.

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Speaker 1: I mean probably not. But the aliens could have deposited him.

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Speaker 1: We don't know so, but we're pretty sure that he

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Speaker 1: was on the bus. The most likely is that he

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Speaker 1: was on the bus from Port Angeles, so southbound from

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Speaker 1: camp it would been from like the northernmost part of Washington,

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Speaker 1: basically nor the most reaches. Yeah, pretty much. Actually, you know,

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Speaker 1: he could have come from can don't know, there's various

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Speaker 1: to Port Angeles from Canada. Yeah, but for all in

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Speaker 1: times and purposes, we can say he was most likely

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Speaker 1: coming south. Lyle didn't have any luggage when he checked

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Speaker 1: in the hotel, Although there is some discussion about whether

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Speaker 1: or not he had a backpack. In any case, even

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Speaker 1: if he did check in with a backpack, it wasn't

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Speaker 1: in his room when he died. He only had a

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Speaker 1: couple of things. Really, yeah, really he had like some

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Speaker 1: money and then m a toothbrush and toothpaste was really

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Speaker 1: the only things that could even qualify as personal belongings

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Speaker 1: that he had in his room. Peter was his name, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: Peter Bergman. Yeah. So, like we said, he checked in

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Speaker 1: the hotel on the fourteenth of September two thousand one.

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Speaker 1: He paid for one night cash, but he said he

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Speaker 1: was probably going to stay more nights, and he ended

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Speaker 1: up staying three nights. He was initially put in room eight,

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Speaker 1: which was the room that was at the very end

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Speaker 1: of the a motel hotel sort of. It was. It

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Speaker 1: was almost like little cottages that were two motel rooms

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Speaker 1: in a building and then there would be space between

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Speaker 1: him and then another one that had two rooms. And

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Speaker 1: it was one of those kind of places, not like

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Speaker 1: the motel eight, which is just one giant room. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a town that size is not going to have

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Speaker 1: a big no no, but just I think room eight

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Speaker 1: was literally the last room. I think there were eight rooms. Um,

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Speaker 1: So what happened is he got put in room eight,

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Speaker 1: and then he came back a couple hours later to

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Speaker 1: the front desk and said, you know that trailer park

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Speaker 1: that's right next door. It's it's too loud. I'm having

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Speaker 1: a hard time getting settled. Can I change rooms? And

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Speaker 1: she said, She said that when he had first checked in,

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Speaker 1: he just seemed, you know, nice um, But when he

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Speaker 1: came back this second time, he made her feel uncomfortable

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Speaker 1: and he seemed kind of like he was spaced out.

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Speaker 1: But she said, okay, did you do anything in that

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Speaker 1: room him? I think she probably thought maybe he was

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Speaker 1: doing drugs or something, you know, she said, did you

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Speaker 1: do anything that room? He said, well, I just messed

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Speaker 1: with the pillows a little bit. And she explicitly apparently

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Speaker 1: said did you take a shower? And he said no,

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Speaker 1: and she said all right, and put him in room five,

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Speaker 1: and that's where he stayed for all three nights. It

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Speaker 1: did turn out that he had actually taken a shower

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Speaker 1: in room eight. So I don't know what's up with that, Why,

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Speaker 1: why she was concerned about it. You would have had

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Speaker 1: to change out all I don't know why, right, yes,

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Speaker 1: but I don't totally understand why he lied about it

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Speaker 1: or why that. I mean, I guess he could have

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Speaker 1: been motivation is to change rooms. He's going to appease

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Speaker 1: her and tell her he did nothing, no matter what

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Speaker 1: he actually did. Fair enough, Yeah, but just like a

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Speaker 1: little good I guess it's dumb. Yeah. And as mentioned

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Speaker 1: the reason that the clerk let him check in without

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Speaker 1: I D, I guess, you know, again, small town, they're

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Speaker 1: a little more lenient, So she did let him check

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Speaker 1: in without I D. But she said that she let

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Speaker 1: him check in without idea because he seemed like a

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Speaker 1: nice guy, seemed like an okay Yeah, and then you know,

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Speaker 1: a couple of hours later she was describing him as

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Speaker 1: kind of off and making her uncomfortable. So I really know.

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Speaker 1: She said that she thought that he might have had

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Speaker 1: a slight Canadian accent, But I also think that that

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Speaker 1: could mean a lot of different things. Again, especially since

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Speaker 1: it's such a small place and it is more north,

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Speaker 1: it's so totally possible that she just, you know, any

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Speaker 1: accents out kind of Canadian to her. You know, there's

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Speaker 1: certainly there's a whole host of accents that if you're

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Speaker 1: not really paying attention and they're very subtle. People can

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Speaker 1: incorrectly apply them to another nationality. He probably just mispronounced

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Speaker 1: a word or two and she thought, well, it's I mean,

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Speaker 1: that's so close to Canada there, you gotta get lots

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Speaker 1: of Canadians there, and she's probably just saw maybe a

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Speaker 1: Canadian by mispronouncing, saying Canadians mispronounced. But they say things like,

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Speaker 1: you know, a boat instead of about and things like that.

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Speaker 1: You know, after that first day, the next day, Friday, no,

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Speaker 1: we didn't right that. It was a pretty uneventful day.

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Speaker 1: I've seen reports that Lyle was seen pacing up and

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Speaker 1: down the highway, but I think that that by the

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Speaker 1: side of the highway. I well, yeah, the side of

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Speaker 1: the highway. But I actually think that that's a misunderstanding

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Speaker 1: of what actually was happening, which was that hotel staff

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Speaker 1: reported that he was seen walking up and down hallways

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Speaker 1: in like in the motel area. Halways they're little bungalows.

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Speaker 1: There's you could call it a hallway between things. Okay,

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Speaker 1: I would I would not call that a hallway. But

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Speaker 1: I also think that if he was walking into the town,

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Speaker 1: the only way to get to town is to walk

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Speaker 1: down the side of the highway, So I think that's

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Speaker 1: where that came from. I just I read an interview

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Speaker 1: will that we'll talk about a little later with the

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Speaker 1: woman who's the daughter of the maid that found Lyle,

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Speaker 1: and she had one of the things she said is

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Speaker 1: that she had seen him pacing up and down the hallway,

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Speaker 1: is what she called it. So I don't know at

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Speaker 1: the time. I mean, the guy had no reading with

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Speaker 1: serial in this room. Well he did, he had the newspapers, yeah,

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Speaker 1: but I mean other than that though, And you know,

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Speaker 1: and he was pacing up and down the side the highway.

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Speaker 1: Maybe he was waiting for the bus, yeah, you know,

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Speaker 1: or something like that. On the sixteenth, Again, not really

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Speaker 1: totally clear what happened. There are some discrepancies in reporting

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Speaker 1: he was His body was found on the seventeen. They

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Speaker 1: believe he hung himself either really late on the night

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Speaker 1: of the sixteen or maybe really early the seventeenth, but

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Speaker 1: probably Sunday night. Yeah, it's hard to say, and that

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Speaker 1: it depending on who is telling this in written form

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Speaker 1: on the internet. It can make it very very confusing.

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Speaker 1: When I first read your stuff, it's like that the

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Speaker 1: days are totally off because I had just gotten finished

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Speaker 1: reading one that I realized had totally bungled the time. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's a it's a kind of weird time frame because

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Speaker 1: I think people want to truncate it a lot because

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Speaker 1: there's no information on those two days. But tween people

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Speaker 1: are just like, he checked in and then he died,

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Speaker 1: but there's two days something. One of the things that

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Speaker 1: I haven't seen anything about is what did he do

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Speaker 1: for food the entire time? Did anybody check the local

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Speaker 1: store to see if you wanted and bought like doughnuts

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Speaker 1: and milk? Yeah. Well, one of the things somebody brought up,

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Speaker 1: which I think is actually probably a pretty good theory,

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Speaker 1: is there was a barber in town and maybe he

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Speaker 1: went in for a haircut in a shave because he

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Speaker 1: was clean shaven and his hair was but he had

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Speaker 1: no rasor. Again, this is this is a little car

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Speaker 1: before the horse. So, as I mentioned, you may have

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Speaker 1: missed it. He did ultimately end up hanging himself, but

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Speaker 1: it was his method of suicide. He had hung himself

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Speaker 1: with his belt and a green There was a green

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Speaker 1: washcloth between his neck and the belt. There are some

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Speaker 1: not safe for life photos on the internet. They're super

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Speaker 1: easy to find, and the thing that's very weird about

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Speaker 1: these photos is they are like disturbingly not to sturbing

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Speaker 1: to look at. Did you guys look at that kind

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Speaker 1: of placid? Yeah, they're very calm. There's no violence. It's

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Speaker 1: just and you know, it's it's I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 1: something with the tone of the pictures, like the actual

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Speaker 1: color tone of the pictures or something, but it's just

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Speaker 1: kind of like, oh, that's interesting, not like, oh God,

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Speaker 1: that's a dead human hanging there, but it is a

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Speaker 1: dead human hanging there. Yeah, that's the whole thing. It's like,

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Speaker 1: there's this there's this guyline there, and didn't you realize

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Speaker 1: the poor guy is dead? That sucks. It just looks

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Speaker 1: like sleeping, like kind of like that Mary Anderson, right,

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Speaker 1: she just looked like she was sleeping. So, as mentioned,

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Speaker 1: he hung himself with his belt. The there was that

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Speaker 1: washcloth in between the belt and the green net, the

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Speaker 1: green wash cloth. The buckle was facing his chin, and

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Speaker 1: he tied the other end of the belt around the

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Speaker 1: metal pole. And they call it an alcove in the

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Speaker 1: motel room. It's the closet. It's like a closet with

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Speaker 1: no doors and the metal pole is it's one of

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Speaker 1: those metal actually see in hotels that you're supposed to

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Speaker 1: set your suitcase on, but it's and it's above head high,

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Speaker 1: head high. Yeah, this one is higher than they normal

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Speaker 1: you normally see them in a hotel. Well, now see,

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Speaker 1: I've seen this before. So what you're thinking of is

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Speaker 1: those little foldable ones that are that you would set

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Speaker 1: your suitcase on. I think now this, I've seen this

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Speaker 1: kind before, and they're usually at about eye levels so

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Speaker 1: that they can be used to you know, with the

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Speaker 1: hanger shirts and hang your shirts and stuff like that.

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Speaker 1: But then it's also got the platform on top and

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Speaker 1: they intend for you to put your bag up there

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Speaker 1: rather than the little folding one. But I've seen these

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Speaker 1: a whole bunch. Yeah. They also sometimes store extra pillows

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that, or the iron if they provide

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Speaker 1: an iron. Yeah, they always provide an iron. If they

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Speaker 1: provide an iron, always provide. I always make them take

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Speaker 1: it away. I can only hurt myself with this thing. Yeah.

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Speaker 1: So he he was not hanging off the ground. He

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Speaker 1: was kind of a like a kneeling he he was

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Speaker 1: very committed to this act. Yes, and he was facing

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Speaker 1: the back of the wall, so he was taking into

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Speaker 1: the alcove. His head was tilted up towards the sky

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Speaker 1: or so it's the ceiling um, and he had hung

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Speaker 1: pillows on either side of the little alcove that he

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Speaker 1: was in, presumably to avoid making noise, because do you

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Speaker 1: automatically are going to thrash when you really did not

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Speaker 1: look like he thrashed. I mean, he probably did, I mean,

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Speaker 1: just because he hung pillows and they absorbed the blows.

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Speaker 1: But I mean, it doesn't look to me like he

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Speaker 1: did either, because what he did is by hanging, he

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Speaker 1: stuffed the pillows between the side the side and the

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Speaker 1: size of that metal thing in the wall, just stuffed

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Speaker 1: them in there very tidily and nicely. And if he thrashed,

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Speaker 1: I would think they would have been knocked askew a

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Speaker 1: little bit, but they're perfectly perfectly aligned with each other,

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Speaker 1: and so who knows. It doesn't really matter yet, But

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Speaker 1: the fact is if he if he did thrash, nobody

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Speaker 1: heard of anyway. The weird thing, though, is that because

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Speaker 1: that shelf was so low, his knees were barely off

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Speaker 1: the ground. That's that's why I say that he was

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Speaker 1: so very committed to keep doing what he was doing.

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Speaker 1: He could have very easily just stood up or even

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Speaker 1: like I mean like literally any almost any movement would

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Speaker 1: have probably stopped the process from him. So I think

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Speaker 1: that's one of the things that does strike a lot

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Speaker 1: of people about this case is that he Yeah. I mean,

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Speaker 1: you know, there's a lot of things about it. I

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Speaker 1: mean there's a lot of example, like you said he

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Speaker 1: was like he said he was, he was clean shaven,

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Speaker 1: going to kill yourself? Why bother shaving? He was clean shaven,

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Speaker 1: and but he didn't have a razor, But why why

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Speaker 1: bother going into the barber to get a shave? And

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Speaker 1: that's you know, you know, it's weird. There's a lot

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Speaker 1: of weird things about this. Pacing by the highway makes

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Speaker 1: me wonder. So since he was recently deceased, it was

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Speaker 1: easy to get his fingerprints, his dental records, and his DNA.

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Speaker 1: The d N A I will say I have I

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Speaker 1: know is saliva DNA. So they can't send it for

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Speaker 1: a lot of the DNA testing that they would otherwise

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Speaker 1: be able to end it for for science reasons. I

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Speaker 1: don't understand the science mind it, but they're science reason,

335
00:18:07,440 --> 00:18:09,399
Speaker 1: I think, I think, yeah, but I think they have

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Speaker 1: some way it doesn't matter anyway. They can't. They can't

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Speaker 1: do the um what was it, the mitochondrial DNA. Oh yeah,

338
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Speaker 1: maybe that's the one where they can trace the family tree. Yah,

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00:18:20,200 --> 00:18:22,879
Speaker 1: they can't do that one. They can't. Why not because

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Speaker 1: I don't know reason, But I thought they did because

341
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Speaker 1: that's how you did it when it's like the twenty

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Speaker 1: three and me, when you like send in your DNA

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Speaker 1: for like your genetic analysis. So I don't really understand why.

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Speaker 1: I have just seen from the you know, the people

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Speaker 1: who have been really really committed to this case online,

346
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Speaker 1: reading through their kind of conversations, seeing that yes, we

347
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Speaker 1: we wanted to send it, but you know, the saliva DNA.

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Speaker 1: For whatever reason, the saliva DNA we have, we need

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Speaker 1: something to test it against. We can't just by you

350
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Speaker 1: know what. That's another thing that makes me wonder about

351
00:18:57,920 --> 00:18:59,520
Speaker 1: this one is why nobody has just done a general

352
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Speaker 1: test to see was what his ethnicity is? Well, so

353
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Speaker 1: that one's a bit question about it. That is actually

354
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Speaker 1: a bit of um A thing. Yeah, I I don't know.

355
00:19:11,040 --> 00:19:14,760
Speaker 1: I don't think that there is actual lack of consensus.

356
00:19:14,840 --> 00:19:18,560
Speaker 1: They think that the actual investigators are pretty agreed on

357
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Speaker 1: what his ethnicity is but yeah, the internet, Who's just

358
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Speaker 1: like but I don't know, he looks kind of like

359
00:19:24,560 --> 00:19:26,560
Speaker 1: he might be this, which is true. I mean he

360
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Speaker 1: does look you could kind of just put him in

361
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Speaker 1: a lot of different ethnicity. He could be Hispanic, he

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Speaker 1: could be American, Indian, he could be Arabs. There's a

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Speaker 1: lot a lot of different we'll talk about all of that.

364
00:19:37,400 --> 00:19:41,200
Speaker 1: A full isotope report is available online. It's twenty nine

365
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Speaker 1: pages long. We'll talk about some of that a little bit,

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Speaker 1: but we're not going to go too far into that.

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Speaker 1: So if that's the sort of thing that does interest you,

368
00:19:48,280 --> 00:19:52,520
Speaker 1: you should look at that. Super easy to find. But

369
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Speaker 1: I want to keep talking about Lyles, the room and

370
00:19:55,560 --> 00:19:58,359
Speaker 1: all of that stuff. Lyle was found by the maid

371
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Speaker 1: she had. She knocked on the door to try to

372
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Speaker 1: clean the room, and she said that when she went

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Speaker 1: in the first time, she thought he was praying in

374
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Speaker 1: the alcove. She just kind of saw his knees and

375
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Speaker 1: saw him. You know, she does what every maid does

376
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Speaker 1: when they opened the room and they see that somebody

377
00:20:17,600 --> 00:20:19,719
Speaker 1: is there and probably doing something that they don't want

378
00:20:19,720 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: to be observed. She went closes the door quietly and

379
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:27,400
Speaker 1: goes on about her business. She's probably that auto urotic

380
00:20:27,480 --> 00:20:30,440
Speaker 1: that thing. No, I think she probably just like saw

381
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Speaker 1: his feet and was like, okay, whoops, sorry, you know, sorry, sir,

382
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Speaker 1: you know, I'll come back later. Later. She came back

383
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Speaker 1: with a manager and they called the cops when they

384
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Speaker 1: realized what had happened. And yeah, the manager is the

385
00:20:40,960 --> 00:20:43,360
Speaker 1: one that went in and realized what was going on. Yeah, Um,

386
00:20:43,400 --> 00:20:46,480
Speaker 1: he had left a hundred and sixty dollars exactly in

387
00:20:46,560 --> 00:20:49,640
Speaker 1: twenty dollar bills and a note saying for the room,

388
00:20:49,760 --> 00:20:51,680
Speaker 1: because you remember, he'd only paid for that first night.

389
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Speaker 1: Hundred sixty dollars happens to be exactly what he owed

390
00:20:54,960 --> 00:20:57,920
Speaker 1: for the other two nights. It looks like I've heard

391
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Speaker 1: it said on the on the inter website, they were

392
00:21:00,240 --> 00:21:04,200
Speaker 1: very crisp, brand new twenty dollar bills. They looked pretty crisp,

393
00:21:04,240 --> 00:21:06,480
Speaker 1: and they look at the pictures, they look pretty crisp. Yeah.

394
00:21:06,520 --> 00:21:08,639
Speaker 1: That's what I want to know is are they truly authentically,

395
00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:11,760
Speaker 1: you know, really super new crisp twenty dollar bills. I

396
00:21:11,800 --> 00:21:14,040
Speaker 1: don't I don't know. I don't know the answer to that, Joe.

397
00:21:14,040 --> 00:21:18,000
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I know it's crazy. Those are the sort

398
00:21:18,040 --> 00:21:19,679
Speaker 1: of things that would be like really nice to know,

399
00:21:19,760 --> 00:21:22,280
Speaker 1: but I don't think people really ask that question a lot.

400
00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:26,679
Speaker 1: He had eight additional dollar bills crumpled in his pocket

401
00:21:26,800 --> 00:21:29,840
Speaker 1: and a pen. There was some change. I can't remember

402
00:21:29,840 --> 00:21:35,080
Speaker 1: how much exactly. They actually books six no buck seventy

403
00:21:35,119 --> 00:21:37,960
Speaker 1: five something in like loose change like dimes and nickels

404
00:21:38,000 --> 00:21:39,760
Speaker 1: and stuff like that. And by the way, in the

405
00:21:39,840 --> 00:21:43,160
Speaker 1: picture that you see that the coins have been like arranged,

406
00:21:43,200 --> 00:21:45,720
Speaker 1: they've been sorted out. That was and did you say

407
00:21:45,800 --> 00:21:47,720
Speaker 1: that was done by the one of the policemen to

408
00:21:47,760 --> 00:21:50,040
Speaker 1: count them. Yeah, what I said was, there's in some

409
00:21:50,080 --> 00:21:52,400
Speaker 1: of the pictures you can also see a little piece

410
00:21:52,400 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 1: of paper with columns um and like tally marks that

411
00:21:56,960 --> 00:22:00,080
Speaker 1: you know, look like, oh, somebody was tallying up how

412
00:22:00,160 --> 00:22:02,160
Speaker 1: much money they had. It was the detective somebody. Literally,

413
00:22:03,960 --> 00:22:06,280
Speaker 1: it wasn't some weird thing that was left in the room.

414
00:22:06,280 --> 00:22:10,120
Speaker 1: It was just the the investigators were counting the change. Um.

415
00:22:10,119 --> 00:22:11,640
Speaker 1: And that's how they were keeping track of it, because

416
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,120
Speaker 1: it was like it was kind of a lot of change.

417
00:22:14,160 --> 00:22:16,159
Speaker 1: It wasn't. I don't I don't know how many quarters.

418
00:22:16,200 --> 00:22:18,800
Speaker 1: I don't remember. I'm so sorry. Um didn't look like

419
00:22:19,040 --> 00:22:21,239
Speaker 1: a couple of quarters, yeah, but most of it was

420
00:22:21,280 --> 00:22:25,800
Speaker 1: like dimes and nickels. I feel, but who automatically pulls

421
00:22:26,000 --> 00:22:28,280
Speaker 1: bills out to pay for stuff and doesn't try to

422
00:22:28,400 --> 00:22:31,080
Speaker 1: use it. Well, it was like that. It very quickly

423
00:22:31,160 --> 00:22:33,640
Speaker 1: adds up totally. But it was more that like it

424
00:22:33,720 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: wasn't as though you could just be like, well, there's

425
00:22:35,640 --> 00:22:42,120
Speaker 1: five quarters, so it's you know in there. Yeah, yeah,

426
00:22:42,160 --> 00:22:45,240
Speaker 1: I think it's It's pretty sweet that he still paid

427
00:22:45,320 --> 00:22:49,040
Speaker 1: his bill and kind of speaks to his character. Probably

428
00:22:49,680 --> 00:22:52,359
Speaker 1: maybe the only other things as mentioned in the room

429
00:22:53,080 --> 00:22:55,919
Speaker 1: that didn't really belong there were the toothbrush and toothpaste.

430
00:22:56,200 --> 00:22:59,840
Speaker 1: There was also an empty pepsi cup and two copies

431
00:22:59,880 --> 00:23:04,680
Speaker 1: of the Sunday newspaper, the local Sunday newspaper from the

432
00:23:04,760 --> 00:23:09,479
Speaker 1: day before, the Daily World from Aberdeen. Yeah, then they

433
00:23:09,520 --> 00:23:11,879
Speaker 1: don't have an online archive. I wanted to see what

434
00:23:11,920 --> 00:23:17,200
Speaker 1: that that issue covered, probably not eleven yeah right, yeah,

435
00:23:17,280 --> 00:23:19,679
Speaker 1: but one of the copies of the Sunday paper was

436
00:23:19,800 --> 00:23:24,600
Speaker 1: in the trash with the pepsi cup and a crumpled

437
00:23:25,240 --> 00:23:28,280
Speaker 1: piece of paper that just said suicide on it, and

438
00:23:28,440 --> 00:23:31,359
Speaker 1: the other copy was out. Um, so I don't know

439
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:34,800
Speaker 1: why he had two copies, but there you go. Probably

440
00:23:34,800 --> 00:23:36,399
Speaker 1: got it out of the machine and you can always

441
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:39,840
Speaker 1: take more than one if you want. Yeah, it's true,

442
00:23:40,000 --> 00:23:41,640
Speaker 1: but he seemed like a pretty honest guy. I mean,

443
00:23:41,640 --> 00:23:45,440
Speaker 1: he left money for the hotel room. So anyway, maybe

444
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:47,879
Speaker 1: he was going to commit the originally suicide by newspaper

445
00:23:47,880 --> 00:23:52,199
Speaker 1: and change his mind just paper cuts or something. He

446
00:23:52,280 --> 00:23:57,199
Speaker 1: had spoken to the maid on Sunday night, um, just

447
00:23:57,240 --> 00:23:59,840
Speaker 1: before his suicide, and he had made it clear that

448
00:23:59,880 --> 00:24:02,640
Speaker 1: he did not need cleaning services, but he did ask

449
00:24:02,680 --> 00:24:06,000
Speaker 1: for a fresh towel, and he also handed the trash

450
00:24:06,080 --> 00:24:09,160
Speaker 1: out to her in the hall. He arrived on Friday. Yeah,

451
00:24:09,359 --> 00:24:15,680
Speaker 1: he hung out on Saturday. His body was found on Sunday, Monday, Monday, Monday, okay, Monday.

452
00:24:15,720 --> 00:24:18,199
Speaker 1: That's again. I know, people, there's the two days that

453
00:24:18,240 --> 00:24:21,320
Speaker 1: are like count because people, when I see the reporting,

454
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:24,639
Speaker 1: it's so truncated. Probably probably killed himself Sunday night. But

455
00:24:25,600 --> 00:24:27,879
Speaker 1: now and yeah, he killed himself Sunday night. He was

456
00:24:27,920 --> 00:24:30,919
Speaker 1: found Monday. Okay. And again back to the maid's daughter

457
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,560
Speaker 1: who posts stuff on that Facebook page devoted to this

458
00:24:33,760 --> 00:24:37,000
Speaker 1: you know what I'm talking about, do? Yeah? Apparently it

459
00:24:37,080 --> 00:24:40,600
Speaker 1: was during this exchange that she says her mother heard

460
00:24:40,640 --> 00:24:43,840
Speaker 1: another voice in the room. Yeah, we're gonna talk about that. Okay, Sorry,

461
00:24:43,840 --> 00:24:46,080
Speaker 1: I keep stepping all over it. That's okay, No, it's fine.

462
00:24:46,520 --> 00:24:49,200
Speaker 1: But yeah, she there's a bit of intrigue there to

463
00:24:49,640 --> 00:24:53,160
Speaker 1: be continued. She did say that, but I'm not sure,

464
00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:56,680
Speaker 1: but he did. She did take the trash out that night,

465
00:24:56,800 --> 00:25:02,160
Speaker 1: so that was new trash as of Sunday evening. Um,

466
00:25:02,200 --> 00:25:06,360
Speaker 1: just you know again, if that means anything to anyone, Lyle,

467
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,520
Speaker 1: you know, since he hadn't give an idea or anything

468
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:10,480
Speaker 1: like that, but you do have to give an address

469
00:25:10,840 --> 00:25:15,280
Speaker 1: home address for your hotel rooms day. So he gave

470
00:25:15,480 --> 00:25:20,040
Speaker 1: the address of one zero one nine South Progress Avenue

471
00:25:20,080 --> 00:25:25,960
Speaker 1: in Meridian, Ohio, Idaho, Ida, Idaho. I like Ohio better

472
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:30,560
Speaker 1: right next door to each other practically. So the local investigator, sorry,

473
00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,560
Speaker 1: did you have something to say about If you look

474
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:35,680
Speaker 1: at the note too, he actually didn't put Meridian, Idaho.

475
00:25:35,760 --> 00:25:38,840
Speaker 1: Is somebody else wrote that in Meridian, Idaho? Yeah, if

476
00:25:38,840 --> 00:25:40,200
Speaker 1: you look at it, if you look at them where

477
00:25:40,200 --> 00:25:42,760
Speaker 1: he wrote it down, it's not his handwriting. We can

478
00:25:42,760 --> 00:25:45,640
Speaker 1: talk about the handwriting in a little bit. His handwriting

479
00:25:45,680 --> 00:25:49,440
Speaker 1: is not consistent, but the suspicion is that it's because

480
00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:53,320
Speaker 1: he was faking his handwriting. I mean he wrote in

481
00:25:53,320 --> 00:25:57,000
Speaker 1: those big block letters, which is like totally in line

482
00:25:57,040 --> 00:25:59,160
Speaker 1: with what people do when they're trying to miss um

483
00:25:59,400 --> 00:26:02,400
Speaker 1: mask their hand writing. But yeah, we can talk about

484
00:26:02,400 --> 00:26:05,800
Speaker 1: that in a little bit. That the local investigators did,

485
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:09,600
Speaker 1: of course reach out to police in Meridian. They said, hey,

486
00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:12,640
Speaker 1: we found a body. Guy said this is his address,

487
00:26:12,680 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: can you go check it out? And it turned out

488
00:26:14,880 --> 00:26:20,639
Speaker 1: that it was either a Ramada in or a holiday in,

489
00:26:21,080 --> 00:26:24,359
Speaker 1: depending on the reporting. I didn't bother to google it.

490
00:26:24,400 --> 00:26:30,159
Speaker 1: I'm sorry, it's probably hotels, changed names, change hands. It

491
00:26:30,200 --> 00:26:33,320
Speaker 1: looks like your standard you know, days in Ramadi and

492
00:26:33,400 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: kind of place, you know, kind of you know, yeah,

493
00:26:35,640 --> 00:26:37,919
Speaker 1: a little better than than a scuzzy motel, but not

494
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:43,920
Speaker 1: exactly you know, the highest regency either in between. Yeah,

495
00:26:44,600 --> 00:26:48,320
Speaker 1: well that's right up kind of on a park. You know. Um,

496
00:26:48,640 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: there goes advertising for so um. The investigators had sent

497
00:26:53,400 --> 00:26:57,160
Speaker 1: over some some photos of Lysle to the police and Meridian,

498
00:26:57,240 --> 00:26:59,280
Speaker 1: and you know, the police and Meridian showed it to

499
00:26:59,320 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: the staff at the hotel there and they didn't recognize

500
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:04,000
Speaker 1: him at all, which either means you know, he never

501
00:27:04,000 --> 00:27:08,159
Speaker 1: stayed there or something else entirely, which you know, you know,

502
00:27:08,640 --> 00:27:10,479
Speaker 1: although I think I think they kind of, like, um,

503
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:13,280
Speaker 1: kind of fell down. I mean, the local investigators are

504
00:27:13,320 --> 00:27:15,159
Speaker 1: somebody kind of fell down the job there, because right

505
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:17,720
Speaker 1: across the street there's like a home depot in a Walmart.

506
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:19,320
Speaker 1: It probably should have walked over there and showed his

507
00:27:19,359 --> 00:27:21,840
Speaker 1: picture around to saying, you know, this guy shop here,

508
00:27:21,880 --> 00:27:24,639
Speaker 1: does you work here? Do that? As far as I know,

509
00:27:24,920 --> 00:27:27,320
Speaker 1: that's I think that's probably true. They probably should. I

510
00:27:27,320 --> 00:27:29,080
Speaker 1: don't know if they fell down on the job, Joe.

511
00:27:29,119 --> 00:27:31,600
Speaker 1: I mean that's that's you saying, oh, I see this thing.

512
00:27:31,640 --> 00:27:33,520
Speaker 1: I think it's interesting they should do that. Where their

513
00:27:33,600 --> 00:27:36,720
Speaker 1: job is go to this place, ask these questions. I

514
00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:39,520
Speaker 1: have a whole bunch of stuff to do besides this

515
00:27:39,600 --> 00:27:42,480
Speaker 1: cold case from another town. I don't have any involvement with.

516
00:27:42,840 --> 00:27:45,120
Speaker 1: That's the thing is, of course, obviously nobody it's time

517
00:27:45,200 --> 00:27:47,080
Speaker 1: knew that this is going to turn into a big

518
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:49,359
Speaker 1: obsession for a bunch of people on the internet. Nobody

519
00:27:49,400 --> 00:27:51,320
Speaker 1: knew that at the time. Just one of those things

520
00:27:51,359 --> 00:27:53,560
Speaker 1: like in retrospect, it would have been kayak cool if

521
00:27:53,560 --> 00:27:55,439
Speaker 1: they checked out this and this and this. You know,

522
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:58,200
Speaker 1: but nobody knew. And then again, this is a week

523
00:27:58,240 --> 00:28:01,399
Speaker 1: after nine eleven. Most of the country was not operating

524
00:28:01,440 --> 00:28:04,199
Speaker 1: on all cylinders, but we're still operating in kind of

525
00:28:04,200 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: a fog. Yeah. So, um a physical description of Lyle

526
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:13,879
Speaker 1: because he was measured quote unquote measured at six foot tall.

527
00:28:14,680 --> 00:28:17,879
Speaker 1: Most of the reporting you will see says that he

528
00:28:17,960 --> 00:28:21,000
Speaker 1: was anywhere between five ten and six two. I don't

529
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,720
Speaker 1: totally understand like they had his body, like totally understand

530
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:28,639
Speaker 1: why you didn't wouldn't know how tall a human was

531
00:28:28,720 --> 00:28:31,159
Speaker 1: from there laying down position. But that's you know what

532
00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:33,040
Speaker 1: I mean. I see where if you have a body

533
00:28:33,080 --> 00:28:35,600
Speaker 1: that's several years old, where you know it's maybe shriveled

534
00:28:35,600 --> 00:28:37,280
Speaker 1: a bit and you can't really tell for share or

535
00:28:37,280 --> 00:28:39,560
Speaker 1: there's some trauma that's been done to it like that,

536
00:28:40,720 --> 00:28:43,120
Speaker 1: Well yeah, I get but yeah, they had a complete body.

537
00:28:43,160 --> 00:28:45,760
Speaker 1: I don't get it either. The investigator said that he

538
00:28:45,880 --> 00:28:50,440
Speaker 1: thought that Lyle was five, but the official age range

539
00:28:50,440 --> 00:28:55,960
Speaker 1: given is twenty to thirty. He had straight black hair that,

540
00:28:56,200 --> 00:28:59,920
Speaker 1: as mentioned, was neatly trimmed and little to no stubble.

541
00:29:00,120 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: I've seen some discrepancy on this as well. I've seen

542
00:29:03,000 --> 00:29:06,080
Speaker 1: either he had zero stubble. Definitely no stubble at all.

543
00:29:06,440 --> 00:29:08,400
Speaker 1: But I've also seen that he had maybe a day's

544
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:10,640
Speaker 1: worth of stubble. Again, i mean, you know, for a

545
00:29:10,720 --> 00:29:14,200
Speaker 1: lot of guys, especially at the mid twenty range, like

546
00:29:14,920 --> 00:29:18,360
Speaker 1: a day's growth isn't really much to sneeze at. But

547
00:29:18,400 --> 00:29:21,920
Speaker 1: he did have definitely, he did definitely have a stubble. Yeah, well, no,

548
00:29:22,120 --> 00:29:25,040
Speaker 1: he did not. Definitely didn't have a full on stubble.

549
00:29:25,080 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: He didn't have what you and I would call five

550
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:30,200
Speaker 1: o'clock shadow. He didn't have that. He might have had

551
00:29:30,200 --> 00:29:33,120
Speaker 1: a little bit of hair there, but it wasn't anything outstanding.

552
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:35,000
Speaker 1: It was, you know, the same way that a teenager

553
00:29:35,160 --> 00:29:41,040
Speaker 1: grows a beard, the whiskey mustache. Yeah. Um, but again,

554
00:29:41,080 --> 00:29:43,240
Speaker 1: as mentioned, we're going to keep saying it's a little

555
00:29:43,280 --> 00:29:45,720
Speaker 1: weird because there was no razor in his room. Um,

556
00:29:45,720 --> 00:29:47,720
Speaker 1: but he was in that room for three days, so

557
00:29:48,240 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: his eyes were hazel. As mentioned, his ethnicity is on

558
00:29:52,960 --> 00:29:57,720
Speaker 1: the internet up for grabs. He's officially listed as white. Uh,

559
00:29:57,760 --> 00:30:02,000
Speaker 1: there's that speculation the you know, he's Hispanic, Native American,

560
00:30:02,280 --> 00:30:06,400
Speaker 1: Missile American, Middle Eastern Italian or even from Norway. I'm

561
00:30:06,440 --> 00:30:09,520
Speaker 1: not sure about the Norwegian one. The only the only

562
00:30:09,640 --> 00:30:11,440
Speaker 1: connection I can find in Norway is I went to

563
00:30:11,480 --> 00:30:17,440
Speaker 1: Google Maps and typed in Stivac, there's there's a Norway. Yeah,

564
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:19,840
Speaker 1: that's the only reason I can think. Yes, that is

565
00:30:19,840 --> 00:30:22,840
Speaker 1: why people think that Officially, like I said, he is

566
00:30:22,880 --> 00:30:27,000
Speaker 1: listed as white. Um, there has been some official investigation

567
00:30:27,120 --> 00:30:31,480
Speaker 1: into Native American communities as well. I presume since they

568
00:30:31,480 --> 00:30:34,680
Speaker 1: have his DNA they've done some kind of genetic marker

569
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,160
Speaker 1: text test, because they keep saying they can't do certain

570
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:41,200
Speaker 1: tests because they only had the saliva DNA. Yeah, so

571
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:43,600
Speaker 1: they don't understand that you've got a whole frigging body

572
00:30:43,600 --> 00:30:45,400
Speaker 1: to work with, You've got all kinds of bodily. I

573
00:30:45,440 --> 00:30:49,040
Speaker 1: don't think they have a body anymore until after the fact.

574
00:30:49,080 --> 00:30:52,080
Speaker 1: I don't think they really pursued the whole what is

575
00:30:52,120 --> 00:30:55,360
Speaker 1: his ethnicity until he was in the ground. But I

576
00:30:55,480 --> 00:30:58,080
Speaker 1: thought that they took tissue samples and blood samples and

577
00:30:58,120 --> 00:31:00,440
Speaker 1: all kinds of stuff from his body to say, just

578
00:31:00,680 --> 00:31:03,120
Speaker 1: just for later purposes. I thought they would have done

579
00:31:03,120 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: that as well. But like I said, I've read but

580
00:31:05,720 --> 00:31:08,400
Speaker 1: I get you know again, it's all it's all internet reporting,

581
00:31:08,440 --> 00:31:10,760
Speaker 1: so it could be totally wrong, but since it's an

582
00:31:10,800 --> 00:31:13,720
Speaker 1: ongoing investigation still, like we don't probably have all the

583
00:31:13,720 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: information that we could use, you know. So I do

584
00:31:17,760 --> 00:31:21,000
Speaker 1: believe that there's some Native American connection, but I think

585
00:31:21,160 --> 00:31:26,440
Speaker 1: he's you know, like white slash Native American. It's super distant, yea.

586
00:31:26,880 --> 00:31:31,960
Speaker 1: So he also had some semi distinguishing features, like his nose. Yeah,

587
00:31:32,240 --> 00:31:34,880
Speaker 1: so it did look like it may have been broken.

588
00:31:35,200 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: The m e. S Report didn't mention that it had

589
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,800
Speaker 1: signs of actually being broken, and so I actually think

590
00:31:41,880 --> 00:31:45,320
Speaker 1: that that it's a distortion from him hanging himself that

591
00:31:45,440 --> 00:31:48,080
Speaker 1: happened on the on his nose instead of it actually

592
00:31:48,080 --> 00:31:51,880
Speaker 1: having been broken like not recently he you know, but

593
00:31:52,120 --> 00:31:55,280
Speaker 1: that it was like a broken and heeled situation because

594
00:31:55,360 --> 00:31:58,680
Speaker 1: usually there's scars and stuff. But I don't know. Again,

595
00:31:59,000 --> 00:32:03,680
Speaker 1: he also had attached ear lobes, which is apparently like

596
00:32:03,720 --> 00:32:06,400
Speaker 1: a thing that only six of the population has and

597
00:32:06,440 --> 00:32:11,360
Speaker 1: it's like genetic. So again that should be another little

598
00:32:11,440 --> 00:32:14,400
Speaker 1: thing to help narrow down, but it seems to not

599
00:32:14,480 --> 00:32:20,280
Speaker 1: really be working. He had they just call him marks

600
00:32:20,280 --> 00:32:26,280
Speaker 1: on his knuckles. Officially, they're like Russell's signs, which are

601
00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:31,200
Speaker 1: callouses on your knuckles. Most often associated with long term bolima,

602
00:32:31,320 --> 00:32:35,680
Speaker 1: and we'll talk about that in a little bit, thank you.

603
00:32:36,120 --> 00:32:40,880
Speaker 1: Um he had perfect or near perfect teeth with signs,

604
00:32:41,040 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: the kind of perfect teeth you get only from or Theodancia,

605
00:32:43,520 --> 00:32:50,680
Speaker 1: not like nobody. Yeah. He also had a quote unquote

606
00:32:50,760 --> 00:32:56,240
Speaker 1: not recent appendectomy scar. Yeah it wasn't pink still. Yeah,

607
00:32:56,280 --> 00:32:58,520
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, at least a couple of years old,

608
00:32:58,800 --> 00:33:02,720
Speaker 1: I think faded. He was wearing a blue plaid shirt,

609
00:33:03,640 --> 00:33:07,040
Speaker 1: a genuine leather brown belt with a big silver buckle.

610
00:33:07,120 --> 00:33:11,360
Speaker 1: While he was he was wearing it in the wrong spot.

611
00:33:11,400 --> 00:33:15,400
Speaker 1: But uh, and the buckle was kind of a big

612
00:33:15,400 --> 00:33:19,040
Speaker 1: Western buckle. Was it the Western style buckle? I it

613
00:33:19,560 --> 00:33:22,040
Speaker 1: doesn't look like it looked like the kind that which

614
00:33:22,080 --> 00:33:24,680
Speaker 1: is just a metal loop. I think that is the

615
00:33:24,720 --> 00:33:33,360
Speaker 1: Western style buckle. I think the big old rodeo cowbody. Yeah, okay, yeah,

616
00:33:33,480 --> 00:33:36,560
Speaker 1: that's why I was asking about the style, just like

617
00:33:36,600 --> 00:33:41,520
Speaker 1: a not European style. What's the European style? The narrow

618
00:33:42,840 --> 00:33:44,960
Speaker 1: you know? I think that I think that those is

619
00:33:45,000 --> 00:33:47,120
Speaker 1: you know, those square ones that are like just like

620
00:33:47,160 --> 00:33:49,840
Speaker 1: a panel and they have like the hook and the

621
00:33:49,880 --> 00:33:53,040
Speaker 1: back and it just clicks in. That's what I think

622
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,200
Speaker 1: of I don't know, could be that up. That's what

623
00:33:57,440 --> 00:34:00,240
Speaker 1: I've got. Yeah, and then that got the is the

624
00:34:00,280 --> 00:34:06,640
Speaker 1: weirdest episode ever. We're all pulling our belts out. Yeah, okay,

625
00:34:06,640 --> 00:34:08,799
Speaker 1: so it was a loop. Okay, it was a loop

626
00:34:08,800 --> 00:34:13,640
Speaker 1: type buckle. It's my understanding that the belt showed signs

627
00:34:13,640 --> 00:34:17,719
Speaker 1: of significant weight loss, which makes sense on some things

628
00:34:17,719 --> 00:34:19,960
Speaker 1: that we'll talk about later. Again. Yeah, I think that

629
00:34:20,000 --> 00:34:22,880
Speaker 1: he had changed changed holes. Yeah, that there was significant

630
00:34:22,880 --> 00:34:25,719
Speaker 1: wear on like two different holes that weren't just right

631
00:34:25,760 --> 00:34:28,200
Speaker 1: next to each other. That or he got the bell secondhand.

632
00:34:28,280 --> 00:34:31,880
Speaker 1: But hey, well the emmy said, and granted, all of

633
00:34:31,920 --> 00:34:34,240
Speaker 1: the clothes that he was wearing were like his pants

634
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,239
Speaker 1: were like a little baggy on him. The emmy said

635
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,320
Speaker 1: that he showed signs of having lost about forty pounds recently.

636
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:44,760
Speaker 1: Maybe are the Yeah, I mean he's wearing a size

637
00:34:44,840 --> 00:34:48,440
Speaker 1: thirty six jeans and the guy was six too, with

638
00:34:48,600 --> 00:34:51,160
Speaker 1: a hundred forty pounds, which is pretty damn skinny, and

639
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,680
Speaker 1: I can't see fitting into size thirty six jeans. He's

640
00:34:53,719 --> 00:34:58,759
Speaker 1: that's more like what's thirty two waste? We had dundsounds, Yeah,

641
00:34:58,760 --> 00:35:00,480
Speaker 1: I mean that's like, yeah, so I would have been

642
00:35:00,560 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: really baggy, yeah, which is why he had a belt, right, yeah, yeah, no,

643
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:08,359
Speaker 1: thinking about how much I weighed what I wear that

644
00:35:08,360 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: that is super balloon pants. Yeah. But at the same time,

645
00:35:11,600 --> 00:35:13,600
Speaker 1: he might have just bought had a local good will

646
00:35:13,680 --> 00:35:16,840
Speaker 1: somewhere in Port Angeles, and you know, yeah, yeah, I

647
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:21,359
Speaker 1: mean I think the Emmy had evidence other than just

648
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:24,440
Speaker 1: the baggy pants to suggest that he had lost the

649
00:35:24,480 --> 00:35:28,120
Speaker 1: forty pounds recently. It's might understand. Yeah, I think there

650
00:35:28,160 --> 00:35:32,080
Speaker 1: was some like Loue skin situation happening. Um, So he

651
00:35:32,120 --> 00:35:34,399
Speaker 1: was wearing blue jeans as mentioned, and then he had

652
00:35:34,440 --> 00:35:38,480
Speaker 1: black leather Timberland boots which were in like pretty good condition.

653
00:35:39,400 --> 00:35:42,279
Speaker 1: The jeans were Levies, the boots were Timberland. You know,

654
00:35:42,280 --> 00:35:48,320
Speaker 1: it's kind of like nicer but not luxury brand. Timberland

655
00:35:48,360 --> 00:35:50,880
Speaker 1: boots are pretty dang expensive though, or can be. I

656
00:35:50,920 --> 00:35:52,959
Speaker 1: was actually I actually looked into this little bit trying

657
00:35:52,960 --> 00:35:58,400
Speaker 1: to figure it out, and Timberland's began. Timberland the company

658
00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:01,680
Speaker 1: got bought by somebody several times and began to add

659
00:36:01,800 --> 00:36:06,799
Speaker 1: apparel other than boots to their catalog in the mid

660
00:36:06,960 --> 00:36:10,160
Speaker 1: to late nineties and that and then and then they

661
00:36:10,200 --> 00:36:14,359
Speaker 1: started adding more apparel in the mid two thousand's, and

662
00:36:14,440 --> 00:36:18,880
Speaker 1: that's really I think when their cost started escalating. So

663
00:36:18,920 --> 00:36:22,839
Speaker 1: I don't think they were super expensive at this time.

664
00:36:22,880 --> 00:36:26,440
Speaker 1: I think that they were mid grade in terms of costs.

665
00:36:26,440 --> 00:36:28,680
Speaker 1: They weren't low end, but they definitely weren't what you

666
00:36:28,719 --> 00:36:31,440
Speaker 1: would see now when you see the you know, some

667
00:36:31,520 --> 00:36:35,160
Speaker 1: guy on stage at a show performing and he's paid

668
00:36:35,200 --> 00:36:41,600
Speaker 1: a thousand dollars for these Timberlands, I'm sure that they

669
00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:45,200
Speaker 1: will bedazzle them with diamonds for you and sell them

670
00:36:45,200 --> 00:36:47,120
Speaker 1: to you as for as much as they can. I

671
00:36:47,160 --> 00:36:50,680
Speaker 1: think you asked Timberland's were like a good buck fifty

672
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:56,680
Speaker 1: or so. At least that's not cheap cheap, But that

673
00:36:56,719 --> 00:36:59,839
Speaker 1: doesn't mean that he bought the high end boot all.

674
00:37:00,480 --> 00:37:04,560
Speaker 1: Remember that everybody makes an expensive model at a cheap model,

675
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:08,160
Speaker 1: and there's going to be arranged there. Yeah. Anyway, Um,

676
00:37:08,200 --> 00:37:10,600
Speaker 1: at some point he had also taken one of a

677
00:37:10,640 --> 00:37:13,720
Speaker 1: bed spread and put it up over the window to

678
00:37:13,760 --> 00:37:18,000
Speaker 1: block out the light or noise or noise. Yeah, as

679
00:37:18,040 --> 00:37:22,200
Speaker 1: we mentioned earlier, there's that full isotope review that kind

680
00:37:22,200 --> 00:37:28,480
Speaker 1: of maps his movements where could have been kind of

681
00:37:28,480 --> 00:37:31,800
Speaker 1: things like minerals and stuff in his skin and hair,

682
00:37:31,920 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 1: which is like creepy and useful and like a soapbox.

683
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:38,520
Speaker 1: About this thing for a second, because it it bugs

684
00:37:38,520 --> 00:37:41,719
Speaker 1: the heck out of me. Because we talked about some

685
00:37:41,800 --> 00:37:45,719
Speaker 1: kind of isotope review in what was the Princess Dough.

686
00:37:46,400 --> 00:37:48,279
Speaker 1: We talked about that and they had actually been able

687
00:37:48,320 --> 00:37:51,600
Speaker 1: to narrow it down to very specific sites. In this

688
00:37:52,320 --> 00:37:56,960
Speaker 1: there's nothing very specific. I mean, when you read this

689
00:37:57,040 --> 00:37:59,800
Speaker 1: report and you start looking at the maps, it looks

690
00:37:59,800 --> 00:38:03,919
Speaker 1: like if you were watching the National News and Al

691
00:38:04,080 --> 00:38:06,920
Speaker 1: Roker or Willard Scott we're on there showing you the

692
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:11,440
Speaker 1: temperature bands across the country. That's how specific his map is,

693
00:38:11,480 --> 00:38:13,640
Speaker 1: Like this band reaches from the east coast to the

694
00:38:13,680 --> 00:38:17,200
Speaker 1: west coast and does this kind of serpentine curve. And

695
00:38:17,560 --> 00:38:21,880
Speaker 1: that's as specific as they're said. They're what what's interesting

696
00:38:21,920 --> 00:38:23,600
Speaker 1: is that if you look at that and and they

697
00:38:23,760 --> 00:38:27,200
Speaker 1: map it by by different minerals and and so if

698
00:38:27,280 --> 00:38:29,920
Speaker 1: you look at the differences between it, you can see space,

699
00:38:30,040 --> 00:38:32,400
Speaker 1: and you can see that there are certain places that

700
00:38:32,480 --> 00:38:36,720
Speaker 1: are a lot more specific. But it's that that doesn't

701
00:38:36,760 --> 00:38:42,239
Speaker 1: pin anything down. And that's that's my problem with well,

702
00:38:42,280 --> 00:38:45,359
Speaker 1: I have a big problem with this methodology too, which

703
00:38:45,440 --> 00:38:50,000
Speaker 1: is that it only maps uh, basically North America essentially,

704
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:52,279
Speaker 1: and it should be mapping the entire world. I mean,

705
00:38:52,280 --> 00:38:54,919
Speaker 1: they're assuming the guy comes from North America. The guy

706
00:38:55,000 --> 00:38:57,759
Speaker 1: might have lived in Asia, Africa, god knows where his

707
00:38:57,920 --> 00:39:01,360
Speaker 1: entire life and only come here race And so it

708
00:39:01,440 --> 00:39:03,640
Speaker 1: makes it look like, wow, he came from this this

709
00:39:03,640 --> 00:39:06,520
Speaker 1: this narrow sort of geographical area in North America. But

710
00:39:07,040 --> 00:39:09,839
Speaker 1: there's you know, I don't think that's that's at all proven. Yeah,

711
00:39:09,880 --> 00:39:11,520
Speaker 1: I would agree with that. The one thing I will

712
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:15,040
Speaker 1: say is that it's my understanding from that isotope review

713
00:39:15,719 --> 00:39:20,319
Speaker 1: that it looks like he spent some time in Amanda Park,

714
00:39:20,520 --> 00:39:23,840
Speaker 1: like a couple of months before he killed himself and

715
00:39:23,880 --> 00:39:26,359
Speaker 1: then went away and then returned. And that's the other

716
00:39:26,400 --> 00:39:28,359
Speaker 1: thing is like a haw could that be? So maybe

717
00:39:28,360 --> 00:39:30,600
Speaker 1: this thing isn't that trustworthy after all. Well, I mean,

718
00:39:30,640 --> 00:39:32,719
Speaker 1: it could be he came in and like hit out

719
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:34,880
Speaker 1: in somebody's trailer for a couple of months. Maybe he

720
00:39:34,920 --> 00:39:37,799
Speaker 1: was staying with somebody in that person. This is like

721
00:39:38,520 --> 00:39:40,680
Speaker 1: this is a theories thing, right, but you know, maybe

722
00:39:40,719 --> 00:39:43,040
Speaker 1: he was staying with somebody and that person died and

723
00:39:43,080 --> 00:39:44,960
Speaker 1: he left and then came back to kill himself because

724
00:39:45,000 --> 00:39:46,560
Speaker 1: that was the last person that he cared about, and

725
00:39:46,760 --> 00:39:48,799
Speaker 1: those would have been the two people that knew him.

726
00:39:48,880 --> 00:39:52,160
Speaker 1: You know, like there are reasons we can like theorize,

727
00:39:52,640 --> 00:39:56,000
Speaker 1: just speculate wildly around why he could have been on

728
00:39:56,080 --> 00:39:59,560
Speaker 1: identifying in the area. Yeah, irresponsibly. I just have two

729
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:03,399
Speaker 1: more quick notes before we get into theories. One is

730
00:40:03,760 --> 00:40:06,920
Speaker 1: what we mentioned already with Joe, just kind of like

731
00:40:07,000 --> 00:40:11,160
Speaker 1: giving us that nugget of um of the idea that

732
00:40:11,600 --> 00:40:16,160
Speaker 1: Lyle may not have been alone on Sunday night in

733
00:40:16,200 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: his room. Uh. The speculation coupled with him not allowing

734
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:24,279
Speaker 1: the maid to come in to clean Sunday night, the

735
00:40:24,360 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: maid saying that he she thought that she heard maybe

736
00:40:27,320 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: other voices in the room, and the fact that from

737
00:40:31,000 --> 00:40:35,239
Speaker 1: the crime scene photos the toilet seat is down me

738
00:40:35,320 --> 00:40:41,680
Speaker 1: finish makes people seats again, makes people believe that he

739
00:40:41,800 --> 00:40:43,799
Speaker 1: that means that he was not alone, that he had

740
00:40:43,840 --> 00:40:47,000
Speaker 1: a female visitor. That yeah, actually that's true. That no

741
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:49,440
Speaker 1: man ever shuts the toilet seat. That's not true. No

742
00:40:49,920 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: man does that. That's absolutely not true. Listen, toilets are gross,

743
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,040
Speaker 1: and there's no reason that I need to be staring

744
00:40:59,120 --> 00:41:04,160
Speaker 1: into that thing because I don't like to unsanitary close.

745
00:41:04,360 --> 00:41:09,879
Speaker 1: I was tweaking Stevens. But I mean, like, that's part

746
00:41:09,920 --> 00:41:11,799
Speaker 1: of it too, is that Lyle strikes me as a

747
00:41:11,920 --> 00:41:16,040
Speaker 1: very clean person. In general, it's not unheard of for

748
00:41:16,080 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: somebody to know. Actually it's not totally. But at the

749
00:41:20,640 --> 00:41:22,759
Speaker 1: same time, it's it's it is not typical for a

750
00:41:22,800 --> 00:41:24,920
Speaker 1: guy to do that. Yeah, I don't know, I just

751
00:41:25,239 --> 00:41:27,719
Speaker 1: you know what, that's not true that it all depends

752
00:41:28,000 --> 00:41:32,560
Speaker 1: on your personality and how you were raised. You know,

753
00:41:33,600 --> 00:41:37,840
Speaker 1: there's this this whole thing every man stands when he peas,

754
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:41,759
Speaker 1: But that's not true. There's a chunk of society that

755
00:41:41,800 --> 00:41:45,520
Speaker 1: where men sit down to urinate just like women because

756
00:41:45,560 --> 00:41:52,040
Speaker 1: it's cleaner. Yeah, but every man does stand to wipe

757
00:41:52,280 --> 00:41:58,200
Speaker 1: after they've pooped. You should google that. No, I shouldn't

758
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:03,600
Speaker 1: actually stand totally irrect and wipe. Yeah, there's a lot

759
00:42:03,640 --> 00:42:06,239
Speaker 1: of discussion on the internet about like this was a

760
00:42:06,400 --> 00:42:08,759
Speaker 1: thing that I had no idea, but apparently suddenly I'm

761
00:42:08,800 --> 00:42:11,279
Speaker 1: questioning mascul There are a lot of people who like

762
00:42:11,440 --> 00:42:17,400
Speaker 1: stand up to wipe. I know, I agree, I started

763
00:42:17,440 --> 00:42:20,560
Speaker 1: doing it wrong this time. I don't know. I'm sure

764
00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,520
Speaker 1: we're gonna get some really great emails from people who

765
00:42:22,560 --> 00:42:25,959
Speaker 1: are like, you're the barbarian. Yeah, I guess you also

766
00:42:26,040 --> 00:42:28,959
Speaker 1: go from back to front. Anyway, So we've a little

767
00:42:29,040 --> 00:42:31,040
Speaker 1: gotten a little off track here what should otherwise be

768
00:42:31,080 --> 00:42:34,640
Speaker 1: a very serious episode. Um, I think it's silly to

769
00:42:34,880 --> 00:42:37,759
Speaker 1: use the closed toilet seat as evidence that someone else

770
00:42:37,880 --> 00:42:40,200
Speaker 1: was there. I also think it's a little silly to

771
00:42:40,440 --> 00:42:44,200
Speaker 1: use his refusal to have the maid come in to

772
00:42:44,400 --> 00:42:48,359
Speaker 1: clean the room as evidence that someone else was there

773
00:42:49,600 --> 00:42:53,200
Speaker 1: the door before and said no, no, no, no, I'm fine. Yeah, okay,

774
00:42:53,239 --> 00:42:56,520
Speaker 1: here here's the trash bag, like just off hanging out.

775
00:42:56,600 --> 00:42:59,200
Speaker 1: I don't want you in. I don't need I don't

776
00:42:59,239 --> 00:43:01,800
Speaker 1: need my had made and I can re use towels

777
00:43:01,880 --> 00:43:03,840
Speaker 1: I took a shower with this morning, So yeah, what

778
00:43:03,880 --> 00:43:05,920
Speaker 1: do I need you in here for? Well? Yeah, and

779
00:43:06,080 --> 00:43:09,880
Speaker 1: I mean there's also some speculation again we'll get to

780
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:12,600
Speaker 1: this in a little bit, but that um he had

781
00:43:12,680 --> 00:43:16,640
Speaker 1: rehearsed his suicide because the technique that he used encouraged

782
00:43:16,719 --> 00:43:19,960
Speaker 1: people to um rehearse it, and so it's possible he

783
00:43:20,000 --> 00:43:22,560
Speaker 1: had all set up already and he was like, obviously

784
00:43:22,600 --> 00:43:24,200
Speaker 1: I'm not going to like the maid in here to

785
00:43:24,320 --> 00:43:26,960
Speaker 1: like see what's going on in here. So again to

786
00:43:27,120 --> 00:43:29,359
Speaker 1: my critique, my form. You know, I spent a lot

787
00:43:29,400 --> 00:43:32,840
Speaker 1: of time on that suicide forum and yeah, um so

788
00:43:33,040 --> 00:43:35,200
Speaker 1: I don't really know about that, but you will see

789
00:43:35,239 --> 00:43:36,879
Speaker 1: that around and I think that's as far as we're

790
00:43:36,880 --> 00:43:39,440
Speaker 1: going to go into it. The other note that I

791
00:43:39,600 --> 00:43:43,880
Speaker 1: will just briefly mentioned is that, as we said in

792
00:43:43,960 --> 00:43:46,960
Speaker 1: the beginning, there is a character in a book called

793
00:43:47,160 --> 00:43:52,520
Speaker 1: You Must Remember This named Lyle Stevic. It's spelled differently.

794
00:43:53,000 --> 00:43:55,200
Speaker 1: The last name is you know, the last name is

795
00:43:55,280 --> 00:43:57,080
Speaker 1: it's spelled with a c K and sent of just

796
00:43:57,160 --> 00:44:01,040
Speaker 1: de kay. But this book is like a super depressing book.

797
00:44:01,800 --> 00:44:05,719
Speaker 1: It's opens was an attempted suicide of Lyle Sevic. Yeah,

798
00:44:05,880 --> 00:44:09,560
Speaker 1: and Lyle in this book tries to commit like at

799
00:44:09,600 --> 00:44:13,160
Speaker 1: least contemplates committing suicide a number of times. And there's

800
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:16,919
Speaker 1: this weird relationship between his daughter and his half brother

801
00:44:17,000 --> 00:44:20,000
Speaker 1: who's a famous boxer, and it's just this it's a

802
00:44:20,120 --> 00:44:24,120
Speaker 1: really depressing thing. And so if somebody had read that

803
00:44:24,239 --> 00:44:27,680
Speaker 1: book and was just looking for a pseudonym, picking that

804
00:44:27,840 --> 00:44:31,520
Speaker 1: one makes some sense. That's a hell of a coincidence,

805
00:44:31,600 --> 00:44:34,600
Speaker 1: though it would I mean it is and it isn't.

806
00:44:34,680 --> 00:44:37,279
Speaker 1: I mean, we all have our favorite books, you know,

807
00:44:37,600 --> 00:44:43,160
Speaker 1: and maybe it just happens that this was Lyle's favorite book. Okay,

808
00:44:43,960 --> 00:44:46,400
Speaker 1: I'll let that go. It's you actually as possible with

809
00:44:46,480 --> 00:44:49,440
Speaker 1: the guy like took an English lit class in community

810
00:44:49,480 --> 00:44:51,560
Speaker 1: college or something like that and they read that book.

811
00:44:52,200 --> 00:44:54,600
Speaker 1: I was like, no, not, nobody's gonna let me sign

812
00:44:54,719 --> 00:44:58,040
Speaker 1: in to a hotel using my favorite book character's name

813
00:44:58,239 --> 00:45:06,520
Speaker 1: because they know that I am not curious George, I don't. Yeah, anyway,

814
00:45:06,600 --> 00:45:09,400
Speaker 1: that's my last note. Uh, do you have any other

815
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:11,359
Speaker 1: notes that you want to add before we start talking

816
00:45:11,360 --> 00:45:13,880
Speaker 1: about theories. There is the anagram theory for his name,

817
00:45:13,920 --> 00:45:15,960
Speaker 1: which I'll touch on briefly, which is like, you know,

818
00:45:16,600 --> 00:45:18,800
Speaker 1: is that a theory? Uh? Some people have thought that

819
00:45:18,840 --> 00:45:21,000
Speaker 1: it might be. And actually, I gotta tell you, before

820
00:45:21,040 --> 00:45:22,520
Speaker 1: I heard of this theory, even I thought it was

821
00:45:22,520 --> 00:45:24,200
Speaker 1: an anagram too. So I went out to the webs

822
00:45:24,200 --> 00:45:27,239
Speaker 1: and found an anagram maker and typed his name in

823
00:45:27,320 --> 00:45:30,600
Speaker 1: to see if I could find anything interesting. I couldn't. Yeah, so, well, so,

824
00:45:30,719 --> 00:45:32,080
Speaker 1: since it is a theory, you want to save it

825
00:45:32,160 --> 00:45:34,720
Speaker 1: for theories. Well, I guess, Well, it's not a theorious

826
00:45:34,760 --> 00:45:36,560
Speaker 1: to who he is. That's just a theory as to like,

827
00:45:36,640 --> 00:45:39,399
Speaker 1: you know, where the layout the name Lyle Stevic came from,

828
00:45:40,400 --> 00:45:43,359
Speaker 1: which is okay, thank you, ma'am. And so there's there's

829
00:45:43,440 --> 00:45:46,919
Speaker 1: there's something. There was apparently a now defunct website called

830
00:45:47,120 --> 00:45:50,279
Speaker 1: I Guess Ashley's Um where people went out there to

831
00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:53,840
Speaker 1: talk about suicide and it wasn't to discourage or get canceling.

832
00:45:53,840 --> 00:45:56,400
Speaker 1: It was all like exchanging techniques and ideas and encouraging

833
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,520
Speaker 1: each other. And there was a guy called I think

834
00:45:58,600 --> 00:46:01,120
Speaker 1: Steven or Stevie or so like that was it, Stephen

835
00:46:01,200 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 1: Steven Steven who talked a lot about hanging himself kind

836
00:46:05,680 --> 00:46:07,600
Speaker 1: of in a similar way to the way Lyle did.

837
00:46:08,360 --> 00:46:11,719
Speaker 1: And then somebody, no, it's not similar, it's identical. Yeah,

838
00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:14,919
Speaker 1: well it's identical, except apparently Stephen said that he would

839
00:46:15,000 --> 00:46:17,400
Speaker 1: use a piece of plastic rope like like that that

840
00:46:17,520 --> 00:46:21,960
Speaker 1: real skinny plastic disposal, Yeah, that kind of stuff. But

841
00:46:22,040 --> 00:46:24,400
Speaker 1: other than that, it was the same thing down to

842
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,160
Speaker 1: the wash cloth. Yeah, and exactly even mentioned that, which

843
00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:29,800
Speaker 1: is one of the things that one of the reasons

844
00:46:29,880 --> 00:46:31,920
Speaker 1: that I said what I said, because one of the

845
00:46:32,040 --> 00:46:34,719
Speaker 1: things he posted was he suggested to use that some

846
00:46:34,800 --> 00:46:37,160
Speaker 1: of that that cheap that cheap stuff, like like the

847
00:46:37,239 --> 00:46:39,200
Speaker 1: kind of stuff that they might use to wrap or

848
00:46:39,239 --> 00:46:42,480
Speaker 1: tie up Christmas trees at home depot. And that's what

849
00:46:42,560 --> 00:46:47,400
Speaker 1: maybe thinks the plasticine anywhere in hardware stores use it

850
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:50,400
Speaker 1: to tie stuff together exactly, But but has mentioned of

851
00:46:50,480 --> 00:46:52,719
Speaker 1: home depot. Maybe think, ha, it's kind of too bad

852
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:54,600
Speaker 1: they didn't go check over at home Depot to see

853
00:46:54,600 --> 00:46:57,560
Speaker 1: if maybe he worked over there. But but anyway, but

854
00:46:57,680 --> 00:47:00,360
Speaker 1: it turns out that Lyle Stavic is an aogram of

855
00:47:00,560 --> 00:47:03,800
Speaker 1: kills Stevie. Yeah, and so, but but again, you know,

856
00:47:03,920 --> 00:47:08,319
Speaker 1: again this is sheer speculation. Uh, let's be honestly, It's

857
00:47:08,400 --> 00:47:12,480
Speaker 1: not as if Stevie was the first person to ever

858
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:17,640
Speaker 1: contemplate or discuss committing suicide in that form. People have

859
00:47:17,800 --> 00:47:21,320
Speaker 1: been doing it for thousands of years, and so it's

860
00:47:21,400 --> 00:47:24,080
Speaker 1: I mean, it's not unheard of for somebody to do

861
00:47:24,200 --> 00:47:27,880
Speaker 1: it in that fashion. Yeah. The reason that that Steven's

862
00:47:27,960 --> 00:47:31,600
Speaker 1: technique even entered this story, I know there are some

863
00:47:31,640 --> 00:47:34,360
Speaker 1: people online who take credit for it, but is the

864
00:47:34,480 --> 00:47:37,840
Speaker 1: actual lead investigator on the case said that he was

865
00:47:37,920 --> 00:47:41,920
Speaker 1: aware of Stevens technique in his initial report. And actually,

866
00:47:41,960 --> 00:47:45,239
Speaker 1: this particular technique isn't unusual, as Steve says, as I've

867
00:47:45,280 --> 00:47:47,520
Speaker 1: seen lots of other suicides. Not I mean not personally,

868
00:47:47,560 --> 00:47:53,239
Speaker 1: but you know in my many, many investigations of the Yes, yeah,

869
00:47:53,239 --> 00:47:55,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people kill themselves this way, more than

870
00:47:55,160 --> 00:47:57,759
Speaker 1: you would think. The first time I heard about one

871
00:47:57,800 --> 00:48:00,279
Speaker 1: of these, I thought, wow, that's almost unbelieve, but well,

872
00:48:00,360 --> 00:48:03,279
Speaker 1: somebody must have murdered him. But now, now, after after

873
00:48:03,680 --> 00:48:05,640
Speaker 1: several years of this, I realized it's not at all

874
00:48:05,680 --> 00:48:10,560
Speaker 1: in common. So that's it for the story. Um, we're

875
00:48:10,600 --> 00:48:13,440
Speaker 1: going to talk about theories now. The first theory is

876
00:48:14,320 --> 00:48:18,319
Speaker 1: that he was a foster care kid. I mean, it's

877
00:48:18,480 --> 00:48:23,279
Speaker 1: possible that this one sense. That's why I put it first.

878
00:48:23,400 --> 00:48:26,560
Speaker 1: I like to put my least plausible things first. Yeah,

879
00:48:27,000 --> 00:48:29,520
Speaker 1: I do the opposite thing that you do, Joe. I mean,

880
00:48:29,600 --> 00:48:33,160
Speaker 1: I don't think and this isn't to sound so you're

881
00:48:33,160 --> 00:48:36,120
Speaker 1: thinking he was in foster care when he died, know

882
00:48:36,440 --> 00:48:39,200
Speaker 1: that he grew up in foster care and that's and

883
00:48:39,320 --> 00:48:41,840
Speaker 1: for some reason, that's why nobody recognized him. But I

884
00:48:41,880 --> 00:48:45,120
Speaker 1: feel like more people would recognize him and he would

885
00:48:45,120 --> 00:48:47,120
Speaker 1: probably have a case worker, and you would think that

886
00:48:47,280 --> 00:48:52,440
Speaker 1: like some finger yeah exactly. Um So I don't I

887
00:48:52,520 --> 00:48:55,920
Speaker 1: don't really like it. But somebody did you come up

888
00:48:55,920 --> 00:48:59,000
Speaker 1: with this one or somebody else it was it's a

889
00:48:59,080 --> 00:49:03,360
Speaker 1: dumb theory and this is this is gonna sound like

890
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,279
Speaker 1: a bash on the Foster system and it is not

891
00:49:06,560 --> 00:49:10,520
Speaker 1: meant to. But the amount of dental work that he

892
00:49:10,680 --> 00:49:15,520
Speaker 1: had had done would not have been cheap. And so

893
00:49:16,480 --> 00:49:19,719
Speaker 1: it doesn't say it's not possible, but it it puts

894
00:49:19,800 --> 00:49:22,680
Speaker 1: it right on the edge. I would say. The next

895
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:25,520
Speaker 1: theory is that he might have been where I guess

896
00:49:25,520 --> 00:49:28,520
Speaker 1: the only theories we're talking about is like who wild

897
00:49:29,320 --> 00:49:33,360
Speaker 1: might have been, right, because we there's not even worth

898
00:49:33,480 --> 00:49:37,400
Speaker 1: speculation of like really why he killed himself, but we

899
00:49:37,440 --> 00:49:40,480
Speaker 1: don't have a single shred of reason to be able

900
00:49:40,520 --> 00:49:42,600
Speaker 1: to come up with that. Now. Yeah, but you know

901
00:49:42,640 --> 00:49:46,200
Speaker 1: a little spattered in there, but um he really you

902
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:47,879
Speaker 1: got to know who he is to find out why

903
00:49:47,920 --> 00:49:50,759
Speaker 1: he did it. Really. Um So, the second theory is

904
00:49:50,800 --> 00:49:52,960
Speaker 1: that he could have been like a migrant worker or

905
00:49:53,000 --> 00:49:57,160
Speaker 1: a farmer worker, or a logger, some sort of outdoor trade.

906
00:49:58,040 --> 00:50:00,799
Speaker 1: I don't know why people think this. I think it's

907
00:50:00,960 --> 00:50:04,320
Speaker 1: the like claid shirt. No, I know why people think this.

908
00:50:04,840 --> 00:50:07,520
Speaker 1: It's because of the isotope stuff, where it shows that

909
00:50:07,680 --> 00:50:12,160
Speaker 1: he moved moved across regions within the last year, and

910
00:50:12,320 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: so the people are like, well, why would somebody have

911
00:50:14,640 --> 00:50:18,320
Speaker 1: been traveling that much. They must have been traveling for

912
00:50:18,520 --> 00:50:22,440
Speaker 1: some kind of employment. So that's where I know that's

913
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:24,840
Speaker 1: where the migrant one comes from. I'm sure it is

914
00:50:24,880 --> 00:50:27,239
Speaker 1: to it. Also, you know, would if he were like

915
00:50:27,440 --> 00:50:30,400
Speaker 1: here illegally or anything like that, that would help explain

916
00:50:30,480 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: why Again, nobody really there's some renegade Canadian, some kind

917
00:50:34,960 --> 00:50:39,120
Speaker 1: of renegade Canadian looking for work in America. It could explain,

918
00:50:40,239 --> 00:50:42,080
Speaker 1: It could explain the weight it lost. The big problem

919
00:50:42,160 --> 00:50:45,879
Speaker 1: with this one is that those are all outdoor professions.

920
00:50:47,239 --> 00:50:50,920
Speaker 1: So there's all kinds of migrant work. Like okay um,

921
00:50:51,800 --> 00:50:55,840
Speaker 1: when it's fishing season in Alaska, the canneries are chucked

922
00:50:55,880 --> 00:50:58,640
Speaker 1: full of people working there and then the season ends.

923
00:50:58,920 --> 00:51:02,400
Speaker 1: Those people are working in a building. There are certain

924
00:51:02,440 --> 00:51:06,360
Speaker 1: agricultural things where you end up in the cold storage

925
00:51:06,400 --> 00:51:10,000
Speaker 1: building sorting the pro you know, potatoes or some kind

926
00:51:10,040 --> 00:51:13,120
Speaker 1: of product produce. I don't know. Not all things that

927
00:51:13,200 --> 00:51:17,200
Speaker 1: are migrant jobs are in the out of doors. You

928
00:51:17,480 --> 00:51:21,120
Speaker 1: can if you're lucky. Get the ones that are actually indoors.

929
00:51:21,480 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: They tend to suck as much because it's cold instead

930
00:51:24,920 --> 00:51:27,800
Speaker 1: of hot. Yeah, those buildings are usually not well heated. No,

931
00:51:28,120 --> 00:51:31,520
Speaker 1: because they're meant to keep the whatever, the thing that

932
00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,879
Speaker 1: they're harvesting or making is cool to its Yeah. It's

933
00:51:35,920 --> 00:51:38,359
Speaker 1: not a good very good points. So, but the problem

934
00:51:38,400 --> 00:51:40,440
Speaker 1: I have with this series it still doesn't explain what

935
00:51:40,480 --> 00:51:43,600
Speaker 1: the hell happened to his luggage or stuff. I mean, yeah,

936
00:51:43,719 --> 00:51:45,359
Speaker 1: and not at all. I don't think any of them

937
00:51:45,440 --> 00:51:48,680
Speaker 1: do really, well, maybe one, but yeah, and it didn't

938
00:51:48,719 --> 00:51:50,440
Speaker 1: look like from the shape of his hands. I mean,

939
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,040
Speaker 1: if you look at his hands, he doesn't look like

940
00:51:52,400 --> 00:51:56,960
Speaker 1: a logger agricultural worker. Yeah, he doesn't have a lot

941
00:51:57,040 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: of muscle mass on him. And really hands don't look

942
00:52:00,719 --> 00:52:02,840
Speaker 1: rough at all. They don't look rough with the exception

943
00:52:02,920 --> 00:52:06,360
Speaker 1: of the top callous is um. And he didn't have

944
00:52:06,520 --> 00:52:08,239
Speaker 1: the you know, the other thing we point out is

945
00:52:08,280 --> 00:52:11,120
Speaker 1: he didn't have any tan lines. So he spent the

946
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:15,319
Speaker 1: summers indoors probably you know, I don't know. Yeah, you're right,

947
00:52:15,400 --> 00:52:18,760
Speaker 1: there are some migrant worker jobs, and it would explain

948
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: why he was coming south in September, But I don't know.

949
00:52:22,840 --> 00:52:24,839
Speaker 1: I just I don't think this does. It doesn't seem

950
00:52:25,000 --> 00:52:27,759
Speaker 1: right to me. For some reason, I give it more

951
00:52:27,800 --> 00:52:30,600
Speaker 1: credence in foster care. Oh yeah, because foster care didn't

952
00:52:30,640 --> 00:52:32,719
Speaker 1: explain anything. Yeah. Well, we're, you know, doing that thing

953
00:52:32,760 --> 00:52:38,759
Speaker 1: where we're working from Devin's least to favorite theory. Yeah. Uh.

954
00:52:38,880 --> 00:52:40,799
Speaker 1: And you know the weight loss. I guess it could

955
00:52:40,840 --> 00:52:43,359
Speaker 1: have been due to that, but most often it's kind

956
00:52:43,400 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 1: of attributed to likely bulimia, but maybe just homelessness and poverty.

957
00:52:50,640 --> 00:52:53,319
Speaker 1: Poverty to me sounds more like he may have been

958
00:52:53,400 --> 00:52:55,440
Speaker 1: living high on the hog for a while and then

959
00:52:55,719 --> 00:53:00,200
Speaker 1: been out of work and cutting back to save money. Mean,

960
00:53:00,239 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: he could have, but he had a hundred and sixty

961
00:53:02,560 --> 00:53:05,200
Speaker 1: bucks and he so he stayed at a hotel that

962
00:53:05,400 --> 00:53:08,839
Speaker 1: was like nicer, right, I mean, it might have been

963
00:53:08,960 --> 00:53:12,399
Speaker 1: his last hurrah, you know what I mean, the last

964
00:53:12,440 --> 00:53:15,080
Speaker 1: couple of bucks. I'm gonna I'm gonna sleep comfortable for

965
00:53:15,200 --> 00:53:16,759
Speaker 1: this next couple of days. I'm not going to be

966
00:53:16,880 --> 00:53:20,160
Speaker 1: sleeping in an alleyway, yeah, I think. I Mean. The

967
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:23,279
Speaker 1: other problem I have is how clean and in what

968
00:53:23,440 --> 00:53:25,719
Speaker 1: good condition his clothes and shoes were in. I had

969
00:53:25,800 --> 00:53:29,759
Speaker 1: heard his clothes were very clean. They were like almost new. Yeah,

970
00:53:30,480 --> 00:53:32,640
Speaker 1: they were very well which again for a guy who's

971
00:53:32,640 --> 00:53:34,440
Speaker 1: been on the road and homeless of stuff, that makes

972
00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:36,719
Speaker 1: no sense. And there's no launderman as far as I

973
00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: know in a town of two fifty would there be

974
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:41,440
Speaker 1: a launderman. I mean probably there would have been a laundromat.

975
00:53:41,600 --> 00:53:45,399
Speaker 1: But even then, I mean, it's just this general wear

976
00:53:45,480 --> 00:53:47,719
Speaker 1: and tear that happens on clothes when you've been like,

977
00:53:47,920 --> 00:53:50,720
Speaker 1: you know, kind of amusing them. And the weight loss.

978
00:53:50,800 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: You know, if he's wearing pants that were too big,

979
00:53:52,960 --> 00:53:55,480
Speaker 1: they were still like in good condition. And then the

980
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,560
Speaker 1: thing that always gets me is shoes, Like shoes get

981
00:53:58,600 --> 00:54:01,160
Speaker 1: all scuffed up and stuff like that pretty quickly. But

982
00:54:01,239 --> 00:54:03,320
Speaker 1: again they this all could have been stuff that he

983
00:54:03,600 --> 00:54:08,080
Speaker 1: purchased second hand recently. If you again say the last rahs, like,

984
00:54:08,120 --> 00:54:09,640
Speaker 1: you know what, I'm gonna wear some nice clothes that

985
00:54:09,719 --> 00:54:11,640
Speaker 1: are clean and not full of holes for a couple

986
00:54:11,680 --> 00:54:13,560
Speaker 1: of days. I'm going to go to the good will,

987
00:54:14,360 --> 00:54:17,279
Speaker 1: and holy crap, I struck gold and I found some

988
00:54:17,520 --> 00:54:20,520
Speaker 1: Because you can, at least you used to be able to.

989
00:54:20,719 --> 00:54:23,719
Speaker 1: Until Ebayers got onto a good will. You could go

990
00:54:23,880 --> 00:54:27,239
Speaker 1: in there and find little you know, little gold mines.

991
00:54:27,560 --> 00:54:29,959
Speaker 1: I mean I found lots of stuff that was new. Yeah,

992
00:54:30,360 --> 00:54:32,680
Speaker 1: good will all the time for really dirt cheap. Yeah,

993
00:54:32,760 --> 00:54:34,680
Speaker 1: you can find it. They're easy. Well, then, how do

994
00:54:34,719 --> 00:54:37,520
Speaker 1: you explain the orthodon che I don't. Yeah, I mean,

995
00:54:37,880 --> 00:54:40,359
Speaker 1: I mean he could have actually, he could have been

996
00:54:40,480 --> 00:54:45,800
Speaker 1: raised and from come from a fairly prosperous background and

997
00:54:45,920 --> 00:54:48,320
Speaker 1: for whatever reason, went out on his own. It's my understanding.

998
00:54:48,360 --> 00:54:51,760
Speaker 1: The orthodontia was more recent. It wasn't like a teenager

999
00:54:52,000 --> 00:54:54,560
Speaker 1: because here's the thing that happens with orthodontia. I don't.

1000
00:54:54,640 --> 00:54:58,440
Speaker 1: Did either of you have braces? Yeah, yeah you did so.

1001
00:54:59,239 --> 00:55:02,120
Speaker 1: I had. Um, I had braces for like seven years.

1002
00:55:03,440 --> 00:55:05,160
Speaker 1: It was a really long time. It probably wasn't actually

1003
00:55:05,160 --> 00:55:10,200
Speaker 1: seven years, but it felt like it. But my teeth,

1004
00:55:10,560 --> 00:55:14,240
Speaker 1: you know, I got my braces off somewhere in high school.

1005
00:55:14,400 --> 00:55:16,400
Speaker 1: And it's been a couple of years since high school

1006
00:55:16,440 --> 00:55:20,000
Speaker 1: and I um two just two or three. But my

1007
00:55:20,200 --> 00:55:25,520
Speaker 1: teeth they're resetting, right, they started moving back to not

1008
00:55:25,680 --> 00:55:27,440
Speaker 1: all the way right, because a lot of the work

1009
00:55:27,520 --> 00:55:30,319
Speaker 1: they did on my mouth was palette works. My mouth

1010
00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:33,520
Speaker 1: actually fits all my teeth. Um, But the kind of

1011
00:55:33,600 --> 00:55:37,160
Speaker 1: cosmetic work of making them be perfect has started to

1012
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:41,320
Speaker 1: kind of go back. My teeth actually didn't stay precisely

1013
00:55:41,400 --> 00:55:43,960
Speaker 1: where they were exactly when the braces came off, right,

1014
00:55:44,040 --> 00:55:47,040
Speaker 1: And so I think they can tell by how perfect

1015
00:55:47,120 --> 00:55:50,600
Speaker 1: your teeth are, how you know how long you have

1016
00:55:50,800 --> 00:55:53,680
Speaker 1: not had braces. It seemed like it hadn't. Again, this

1017
00:55:53,880 --> 00:55:56,279
Speaker 1: is just like a nobody's ever come out and said, like,

1018
00:55:56,400 --> 00:55:59,120
Speaker 1: and he had orthodontial with it. I'm not gonna argue

1019
00:55:59,120 --> 00:56:00,880
Speaker 1: with it because but I don't know. I mean, it

1020
00:56:01,000 --> 00:56:03,520
Speaker 1: seemed to me as though it was more recent than

1021
00:56:03,800 --> 00:56:06,399
Speaker 1: like he had it as a teenager. And they set back.

1022
00:56:07,239 --> 00:56:09,720
Speaker 1: Another reason to suspect that he was not a migrant

1023
00:56:09,760 --> 00:56:13,480
Speaker 1: worker or homeless dude. Yeah, which which fits better with

1024
00:56:13,560 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: some of our later theories. Yeah, the next one funny pun.

1025
00:56:17,680 --> 00:56:22,560
Speaker 1: I know, again this doesn't explain a whole lot, but

1026
00:56:22,960 --> 00:56:25,880
Speaker 1: there is a theory that he was a m then

1027
00:56:25,960 --> 00:56:30,400
Speaker 1: a boxer or a boxer or an underground fighter. Um.

1028
00:56:30,600 --> 00:56:33,600
Speaker 1: This is mostly suggested because of those Russell signs on

1029
00:56:33,960 --> 00:56:38,479
Speaker 1: the in the cuts on his knuckles. Yeah. So they're,

1030
00:56:39,120 --> 00:56:43,440
Speaker 1: like I said, most often seen there, they're on specific knuckles.

1031
00:56:43,560 --> 00:56:47,440
Speaker 1: Usually they're on your pointer finger knuckles and your ring

1032
00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,040
Speaker 1: finger knuckles, and the way you get them. I'm so

1033
00:56:51,200 --> 00:56:56,520
Speaker 1: sorry to say this, but is Yeah, the reason that

1034
00:56:56,920 --> 00:56:59,319
Speaker 1: you get this is because when you are sticking your

1035
00:56:59,360 --> 00:57:01,880
Speaker 1: fingers down your throat, it's where your teeth hit to

1036
00:57:02,040 --> 00:57:04,640
Speaker 1: induce a gag reflex. Yeah, to induce the gag reflex

1037
00:57:04,760 --> 00:57:07,799
Speaker 1: to make yourself vomit. It's where your teeth hit your

1038
00:57:07,880 --> 00:57:11,680
Speaker 1: knuckles when your gag reflex kicks in um, and it

1039
00:57:11,719 --> 00:57:14,759
Speaker 1: will they will generally hit the same place the same time,

1040
00:57:14,880 --> 00:57:17,000
Speaker 1: over and over and over again. It will cause calluses

1041
00:57:17,040 --> 00:57:19,120
Speaker 1: and cuts to build up in the same spot on

1042
00:57:19,440 --> 00:57:24,320
Speaker 1: your knuckles. But there is some thing to suggest that

1043
00:57:24,600 --> 00:57:27,400
Speaker 1: you also get calluses like that if you're fighting or

1044
00:57:27,440 --> 00:57:30,120
Speaker 1: if you're doing certain kind of physical labor. He had.

1045
00:57:30,280 --> 00:57:32,800
Speaker 1: You know what's funny if you look at the photos,

1046
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,280
Speaker 1: I can't remember which hand it is, that they specifically

1047
00:57:37,360 --> 00:57:40,720
Speaker 1: take the photo of it before and after the pointer

1048
00:57:40,800 --> 00:57:44,080
Speaker 1: finger knuckle. Yeah, they both had the marks on him, right,

1049
00:57:44,120 --> 00:57:49,160
Speaker 1: But if you look, he's also got scratches on his wrists. Yeah,

1050
00:57:49,280 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: they're so I'm I'm not I'm not willing to totally

1051
00:57:53,520 --> 00:57:57,880
Speaker 1: get behind this because he's other. He's got other wounds well,

1052
00:57:58,000 --> 00:58:00,160
Speaker 1: but they're not necessarily from the same thing in the

1053
00:58:00,200 --> 00:58:03,760
Speaker 1: same activity though, But they're not necessarily from different things either,

1054
00:58:03,880 --> 00:58:05,920
Speaker 1: maybe not. I mean one of the things that one

1055
00:58:05,920 --> 00:58:07,520
Speaker 1: of the reasons I don't like the fighter one is

1056
00:58:07,560 --> 00:58:09,960
Speaker 1: that they're they're kind of on. If you make a

1057
00:58:10,120 --> 00:58:12,440
Speaker 1: fist and look down at a point, your fist forward,

1058
00:58:12,680 --> 00:58:14,360
Speaker 1: you know, So the forward part is what you would

1059
00:58:14,400 --> 00:58:16,880
Speaker 1: punch somebody with, right, and at the top of the

1060
00:58:16,920 --> 00:58:18,920
Speaker 1: hand that you're looking at is that's where the marks are,

1061
00:58:19,040 --> 00:58:21,520
Speaker 1: is on the top. They're on the back side of

1062
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,520
Speaker 1: the yeah, they're Yeah, and so but if you're fighting,

1063
00:58:24,560 --> 00:58:26,760
Speaker 1: the part that gets the part that gets banged up

1064
00:58:26,920 --> 00:58:28,680
Speaker 1: is the front of the fist, which is not where

1065
00:58:28,760 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 1: these marks are. They're up and around and behind the knuckles. Yeah,

1066
00:58:32,720 --> 00:58:34,320
Speaker 1: this is why I'm not I'm not keen on the

1067
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:38,000
Speaker 1: whole boxer kind of. I'm also not keen on it either,

1068
00:58:38,080 --> 00:58:42,080
Speaker 1: But I do not think that he saw a fight club. Yeah, sideways,

1069
00:58:42,120 --> 00:58:43,800
Speaker 1: what's the point of getting expressive worth of on ship

1070
00:58:43,880 --> 00:58:47,160
Speaker 1: you can think how to get your teeth on? Yeah, totally,

1071
00:58:48,320 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: I agree. Um, it's not there's no there's nothing good here.

1072
00:58:53,440 --> 00:58:55,040
Speaker 1: I wrote a bunch of other stuff in this theory,

1073
00:58:55,120 --> 00:58:57,160
Speaker 1: but it's just not it's not good, so it doesn't

1074
00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: really matter. We's not going to talk about it. Another

1075
00:58:59,800 --> 00:59:02,720
Speaker 1: theory areas that he came to America as an unaccompanied

1076
00:59:02,840 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 1: miner from a foreign country. Maybe his parents like left

1077
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:08,040
Speaker 1: the country and forgot to take him with. Yeah, you know,

1078
00:59:08,160 --> 00:59:11,160
Speaker 1: he sent him to this country and we're not able

1079
00:59:11,240 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: to join him or find him when they got here. Yeah,

1080
00:59:14,360 --> 00:59:16,720
Speaker 1: because that does happen. Yeah, and you know, if he

1081
00:59:16,960 --> 00:59:21,000
Speaker 1: was really like twenty four at least, you know, then

1082
00:59:21,240 --> 00:59:22,920
Speaker 1: it's true he could have. That would have been a

1083
00:59:23,000 --> 00:59:27,200
Speaker 1: really good explanation of he came from a well off family,

1084
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:31,400
Speaker 1: you know, got his braces off recently, they sent him

1085
00:59:31,440 --> 00:59:33,640
Speaker 1: over here. They were like, all right, go to America,

1086
00:59:33,880 --> 00:59:36,400
Speaker 1: we'll join you there, and then they lost touch somehow.

1087
00:59:36,960 --> 00:59:39,600
Speaker 1: Maybe the Civil War. Yeah, I don't know, I mean,

1088
00:59:39,640 --> 00:59:42,280
Speaker 1: maybe it was I don't know. Maybe, I mean, I mean,

1089
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:44,360
Speaker 1: things do happen, I mean, and maybe it wasn't even

1090
00:59:44,400 --> 00:59:46,800
Speaker 1: a minor when he came here. Let's assuming assuming you

1091
00:59:46,840 --> 00:59:49,800
Speaker 1: came from say, you know, Mexico. Mexico just saw a

1092
00:59:49,880 --> 00:59:53,560
Speaker 1: couple of really stupendous earthquakes to imagine he comes up

1093
00:59:53,600 --> 00:59:56,560
Speaker 1: here looking for work, whatever his family gets killed, you know,

1094
00:59:56,680 --> 01:00:02,440
Speaker 1: in an earth conceivable. You know, the next couple of

1095
01:00:02,520 --> 01:00:07,520
Speaker 1: theories are all tied up around one theory, kind of

1096
01:00:08,160 --> 01:00:11,480
Speaker 1: the one central theme here. And it's because in America,

1097
01:00:11,600 --> 01:00:16,120
Speaker 1: we literally cannot ignore this. Here's like our little disclaimer is,

1098
01:00:16,240 --> 01:00:19,919
Speaker 1: this is not an episode about nine eleven, but let's

1099
01:00:19,920 --> 01:00:24,240
Speaker 1: talk about eleven. You know what, jet field does not

1100
01:00:24,400 --> 01:00:27,880
Speaker 1: melt steel beams. I mean, it's true, it's true. Yeah,

1101
01:00:28,280 --> 01:00:30,640
Speaker 1: Um again, I don't we don't want to get into

1102
01:00:30,720 --> 01:00:34,880
Speaker 1: any of that. But it is so close after nine eleven.

1103
01:00:34,960 --> 01:00:38,280
Speaker 1: That's why, so close. So actually this this particularly day

1104
01:00:38,320 --> 01:00:40,160
Speaker 1: that the day that he checked in, my mother was

1105
01:00:40,920 --> 01:00:44,720
Speaker 1: in Victoria, BC, on nine eleven. She had been as

1106
01:00:44,760 --> 01:00:46,160
Speaker 1: she went up there with like three of her high

1107
01:00:46,160 --> 01:00:48,760
Speaker 1: school friends and they all decided, just for fun, for

1108
01:00:48,840 --> 01:00:50,680
Speaker 1: old times sake, they all get together and go to

1109
01:00:50,760 --> 01:00:53,160
Speaker 1: Victoria for a weekend. And they were going to leave

1110
01:00:53,200 --> 01:00:56,600
Speaker 1: on on nine eleven, and guess what, they couldn't they

1111
01:00:56,720 --> 01:00:58,919
Speaker 1: close the border and my mom was stuck up there

1112
01:00:59,040 --> 01:01:01,880
Speaker 1: first for days. She probably she probably passed Lisle on

1113
01:01:01,960 --> 01:01:05,440
Speaker 1: the highway go in the other direction. Body who got

1114
01:01:05,520 --> 01:01:08,760
Speaker 1: stuck in California. Yeah, thing he flew down there for something,

1115
01:01:08,920 --> 01:01:10,440
Speaker 1: was gonna fly home. He had to he had to

1116
01:01:10,680 --> 01:01:12,640
Speaker 1: buy a car and drive home. Yeah, And that might

1117
01:01:12,680 --> 01:01:14,040
Speaker 1: be one of That's one of the things I wonder

1118
01:01:14,080 --> 01:01:16,760
Speaker 1: about a while, if if maybe he was kind of stuck,

1119
01:01:17,160 --> 01:01:19,200
Speaker 1: you know, I mean for for a few days, because

1120
01:01:19,240 --> 01:01:22,240
Speaker 1: I mean that's only fourteen is only three days after

1121
01:01:22,360 --> 01:01:25,960
Speaker 1: As far as I know, their traffic was down. Border

1122
01:01:26,000 --> 01:01:28,160
Speaker 1: crossings were all shut down. I mean yeah, I mean

1123
01:01:28,520 --> 01:01:30,840
Speaker 1: it was full lockdown mood. It was. Yeah, it was

1124
01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:32,800
Speaker 1: like it was crazy. I mean, no air traffic. It

1125
01:01:32,840 --> 01:01:35,440
Speaker 1: was the weirdest thingy go outside, there'd be no The

1126
01:01:35,520 --> 01:01:36,920
Speaker 1: only plane you see in the sky would be a

1127
01:01:37,000 --> 01:01:41,240
Speaker 1: military fighter jet. Yeah. Yeah, it was remember it. It

1128
01:01:41,320 --> 01:01:44,280
Speaker 1: was a weird time. It was really weird. But here's

1129
01:01:44,360 --> 01:01:47,960
Speaker 1: some theories on why his suicide might have been attached

1130
01:01:48,240 --> 01:01:52,920
Speaker 1: to nine eleven in some way. Again, this ignores what

1131
01:01:53,160 --> 01:01:57,160
Speaker 1: we think we know about his ethnicity. Anyway, just four warning.

1132
01:01:57,640 --> 01:02:03,360
Speaker 1: There are some people who very irresponsibly suggest, I think

1133
01:02:03,520 --> 01:02:07,880
Speaker 1: very irresponsibly suggest that Lyle was of Middle Eastern descent

1134
01:02:07,960 --> 01:02:10,400
Speaker 1: and had helped plan the nine of eleven attacks. Why

1135
01:02:10,480 --> 01:02:13,320
Speaker 1: is that irresponsible though, because it's just playing straight up

1136
01:02:13,440 --> 01:02:17,720
Speaker 1: racist saying he must have been Middle Eastern and therefore,

1137
01:02:17,800 --> 01:02:20,960
Speaker 1: because he was from somewhere in that region world, he

1138
01:02:21,160 --> 01:02:24,160
Speaker 1: must have been involved because all Middle Easterners were involved.

1139
01:02:24,320 --> 01:02:27,080
Speaker 1: And I get that, I get the whole thing that

1140
01:02:27,200 --> 01:02:29,800
Speaker 1: and that, you know, but if you look at him,

1141
01:02:29,960 --> 01:02:32,400
Speaker 1: if you look at the take closely, and that's why

1142
01:02:32,680 --> 01:02:35,000
Speaker 1: I think they should look at his DNA and really

1143
01:02:35,040 --> 01:02:37,760
Speaker 1: try to understand was that this city is since it

1144
01:02:37,840 --> 01:02:40,680
Speaker 1: seems to me that Lyle is probably not from North

1145
01:02:40,760 --> 01:02:43,920
Speaker 1: America because you know, they Yeah, I think he's more

1146
01:02:45,200 --> 01:02:47,560
Speaker 1: from Europe. Yeah, I think, and he could be from

1147
01:02:47,560 --> 01:02:49,360
Speaker 1: the Middle East. And if you look at the pictures

1148
01:02:49,400 --> 01:02:53,720
Speaker 1: of the hijacker, he actually bears a pretty decent resemblance

1149
01:02:53,720 --> 01:02:56,800
Speaker 1: to Muhammadatta, who was the lead hijacker at nine eleven.

1150
01:02:57,240 --> 01:02:59,200
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it was his brother or his cousin,

1151
01:02:59,280 --> 01:03:02,040
Speaker 1: but would be he could? I mean, if there is

1152
01:03:02,080 --> 01:03:07,240
Speaker 1: absolutely nothing to support that speculation, yeah, it's all speculation,

1153
01:03:07,320 --> 01:03:09,160
Speaker 1: but there's there There are other things. I mean, the

1154
01:03:09,240 --> 01:03:14,640
Speaker 1: fact that he had absolutely no luggage, note that nobody

1155
01:03:14,680 --> 01:03:17,080
Speaker 1: knows exactly how he got there, why he was there,

1156
01:03:17,760 --> 01:03:19,840
Speaker 1: and one of the things that it really interests me

1157
01:03:20,200 --> 01:03:24,480
Speaker 1: is he got the paper, the local paper, the Sunday paper,

1158
01:03:24,880 --> 01:03:26,200
Speaker 1: And in fact, that might have been why he was

1159
01:03:26,240 --> 01:03:29,200
Speaker 1: pacing the highway on Saturday afternoon, just because it was

1160
01:03:29,240 --> 01:03:31,920
Speaker 1: a Sunday paper. Those usually get delivered on Saturday afternoon.

1161
01:03:32,400 --> 01:03:34,240
Speaker 1: He might have been waiting for the paper and maybe

1162
01:03:34,320 --> 01:03:36,960
Speaker 1: there was some sort of coded message in the personal

1163
01:03:37,080 --> 01:03:39,040
Speaker 1: ads and you know it was time to and it

1164
01:03:39,160 --> 01:03:41,960
Speaker 1: was basically pulling the plug on you lile, you know,

1165
01:03:42,000 --> 01:03:45,040
Speaker 1: I'll kill yourself or something because you know too. Yeah,

1166
01:03:45,120 --> 01:03:47,760
Speaker 1: and again that's all that's all pure speculation on my part.

1167
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,480
Speaker 1: But there's there's some strange stuff about that guy, like,

1168
01:03:50,560 --> 01:03:53,560
Speaker 1: for example, he had exactly enough money to pay his

1169
01:03:53,640 --> 01:03:56,560
Speaker 1: hotel bill, plus just like eight bucks left over and change,

1170
01:03:57,000 --> 01:03:59,520
Speaker 1: just enough money to pay his hotel bill. Some people

1171
01:03:59,560 --> 01:04:01,880
Speaker 1: expected NY used than a t M. There's an a

1172
01:04:02,000 --> 01:04:04,240
Speaker 1: t M or two in town. But of course if

1173
01:04:04,240 --> 01:04:05,600
Speaker 1: he did that, where the hell is his a t

1174
01:04:05,760 --> 01:04:08,000
Speaker 1: M card? And I don't even know if anybody if

1175
01:04:08,040 --> 01:04:10,840
Speaker 1: the local police check a t M activity to see

1176
01:04:11,080 --> 01:04:13,880
Speaker 1: if there had been any and and just look at

1177
01:04:13,920 --> 01:04:16,280
Speaker 1: the names, you know, who's who who go to the

1178
01:04:16,320 --> 01:04:18,240
Speaker 1: bank and see who was not a local that used

1179
01:04:18,280 --> 01:04:21,280
Speaker 1: as a t M that would be useful information. I don't.

1180
01:04:21,280 --> 01:04:23,240
Speaker 1: I had no idea if they did that or not. Obviously,

1181
01:04:23,320 --> 01:04:25,360
Speaker 1: getting rid of your a t M card, your wallet,

1182
01:04:25,440 --> 01:04:27,520
Speaker 1: your passport, all that stuff would be very very easy

1183
01:04:27,560 --> 01:04:31,320
Speaker 1: to do. And uh, you know, and so but sticking

1184
01:04:31,320 --> 01:04:34,080
Speaker 1: a purple bag and tossing the trash. Yeah, but but

1185
01:04:34,200 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: it is interesting to me that he had precisely enough

1186
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:39,240
Speaker 1: money within a few bucks to cover his bill, which

1187
01:04:39,320 --> 01:04:41,560
Speaker 1: was nice of them, then not leave them, to not

1188
01:04:41,720 --> 01:04:44,240
Speaker 1: leave them holding the bag, and so again I don't.

1189
01:04:44,280 --> 01:04:47,360
Speaker 1: I don't think this theory is completely racist and out landish.

1190
01:04:47,960 --> 01:04:51,000
Speaker 1: It's fairly unsupported. But then again, when you think about

1191
01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:52,720
Speaker 1: some of those things about the story, like I said,

1192
01:04:52,920 --> 01:04:55,880
Speaker 1: the total lack of any luggage, the fact that he

1193
01:04:56,000 --> 01:04:58,320
Speaker 1: had exactly enough money to cover that bill, I mean,

1194
01:04:58,800 --> 01:05:01,200
Speaker 1: there's some things about it that are really really interesting,

1195
01:05:01,280 --> 01:05:03,760
Speaker 1: and I really think they need to find out what

1196
01:05:03,920 --> 01:05:06,000
Speaker 1: part of the world he really came from. Although not

1197
01:05:06,120 --> 01:05:08,680
Speaker 1: to say that if he was ethnically an Arabic, he's

1198
01:05:08,720 --> 01:05:10,760
Speaker 1: not an American, of course he is, or it could

1199
01:05:10,800 --> 01:05:14,320
Speaker 1: be or Canadian or something. Yeah, I just don't. I

1200
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:18,000
Speaker 1: don't like it. Well, I think I think that just

1201
01:05:18,120 --> 01:05:21,000
Speaker 1: because it happened around nineteen nine eleven, Yeah, I don't

1202
01:05:21,040 --> 01:05:24,240
Speaker 1: think that that necessarily tie it means anything, but based

1203
01:05:24,280 --> 01:05:26,440
Speaker 1: on some of the other weird hinky stuff that happened

1204
01:05:26,480 --> 01:05:29,960
Speaker 1: with this case, well maybe and and of course it

1205
01:05:30,080 --> 01:05:32,920
Speaker 1: could be coincidental. It could have been something totally unrelated

1206
01:05:32,960 --> 01:05:35,960
Speaker 1: tone eleven. But you know, he's still see a Russian

1207
01:05:36,040 --> 01:05:39,080
Speaker 1: spy and they and they give him the order to,

1208
01:05:39,320 --> 01:05:42,040
Speaker 1: you know, either either take out the president or kill yourself.

1209
01:05:42,120 --> 01:05:47,360
Speaker 1: He says, okay, were something I don't know, But yeah,

1210
01:05:47,400 --> 01:05:51,560
Speaker 1: I mean I think that there are more sympathetic reasons

1211
01:05:51,680 --> 01:05:54,280
Speaker 1: why he that are tied up with nine eleven, that

1212
01:05:54,360 --> 01:05:58,000
Speaker 1: he might have killed himself that don't end with him

1213
01:05:58,080 --> 01:06:04,520
Speaker 1: being a terrorist. Yeah. Yeah, Um. One of them would

1214
01:06:04,960 --> 01:06:07,440
Speaker 1: be that his family could have died in the nine

1215
01:06:07,520 --> 01:06:11,720
Speaker 1: eleven attack. That would also explain why nobody was able

1216
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:15,480
Speaker 1: to say yeah, like, oh, that's because his his picture

1217
01:06:15,520 --> 01:06:22,360
Speaker 1: has been pretty wildly circulated, wildly widely circulated. Yeah, I mean,

1218
01:06:22,480 --> 01:06:26,800
Speaker 1: it's it's again. It's it's like the Laurier caref. You know,

1219
01:06:26,920 --> 01:06:31,000
Speaker 1: it turns out that one was solved, But you know,

1220
01:06:31,360 --> 01:06:33,320
Speaker 1: there's a lot of people looking at this picture and

1221
01:06:33,800 --> 01:06:37,200
Speaker 1: really nobody said, you know anything, So that could explain that.

1222
01:06:37,240 --> 01:06:39,480
Speaker 1: It could also explain, you know, maybe he did have

1223
01:06:39,600 --> 01:06:43,120
Speaker 1: some kind of familial connection to Amanda Park. Sorry, I

1224
01:06:43,200 --> 01:06:46,280
Speaker 1: forgot where we were at for a second. And you know,

1225
01:06:46,400 --> 01:06:48,920
Speaker 1: he and his entire family traveled over there, and then

1226
01:06:48,960 --> 01:06:51,080
Speaker 1: they all died in the nine eleven attack, and he

1227
01:06:51,440 --> 01:06:54,480
Speaker 1: made his way back, you know, slowly to where they

1228
01:06:54,520 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 1: were from, and you know, I don't know, maybe maybe

1229
01:06:56,720 --> 01:07:00,480
Speaker 1: they vacationed there when he was a kid. Yeah, wonderful

1230
01:07:00,520 --> 01:07:04,680
Speaker 1: family vacation. Yeah. Yeah. Um there's also a theory I

1231
01:07:04,720 --> 01:07:07,120
Speaker 1: don't like this one as much. Um that he was

1232
01:07:07,640 --> 01:07:10,560
Speaker 1: supposed to have died in nine eleven. That whole, like

1233
01:07:10,680 --> 01:07:15,320
Speaker 1: all of that Post secret, you know, well, that whole

1234
01:07:15,360 --> 01:07:18,520
Speaker 1: thing is I'm pretty sure art project. Yeah, I think

1235
01:07:18,560 --> 01:07:22,040
Speaker 1: post secret. Which one is that post secret? It's the

1236
01:07:22,280 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 1: everybody who knew me before eleven thinks I'm dead. That's

1237
01:07:26,200 --> 01:07:28,840
Speaker 1: not post secret. That's just a secret that was sent

1238
01:07:28,960 --> 01:07:31,160
Speaker 1: into Post secret. Right. Well, that's what I'm sorry it

1239
01:07:31,200 --> 01:07:34,320
Speaker 1: always gets it's always referred to as the post secret secret.

1240
01:07:34,480 --> 01:07:39,800
Speaker 1: I believe. Is that the Yeah? Yeah, but yeah, I'm

1241
01:07:39,920 --> 01:07:43,680
Speaker 1: pretty sure that is something creative. Actually I said that,

1242
01:07:44,240 --> 01:07:48,800
Speaker 1: I'm confessing now. Yeah, I was going to say, explains

1243
01:07:48,840 --> 01:07:51,680
Speaker 1: why like nobody like we don't know your family or

1244
01:07:51,680 --> 01:07:55,400
Speaker 1: anything to take that one off the list, to do

1245
01:07:55,440 --> 01:07:57,760
Speaker 1: you wonder why you never met my parents for example. Yeah,

1246
01:07:58,160 --> 01:08:00,320
Speaker 1: So that's it for the nine eleven theories, like any

1247
01:08:00,360 --> 01:08:02,320
Speaker 1: of them, except for maybe like the family died at

1248
01:08:02,400 --> 01:08:04,840
Speaker 1: nine eleven. And I think it's a you know, yeah,

1249
01:08:04,920 --> 01:08:07,280
Speaker 1: I mean, but I think it's it's worth a look

1250
01:08:07,440 --> 01:08:10,280
Speaker 1: just because of the coincidence and everything around the around

1251
01:08:10,320 --> 01:08:12,760
Speaker 1: the day. But then again, there are other people died

1252
01:08:12,800 --> 01:08:15,040
Speaker 1: and committed suicide around the same time too. Yeah, that's

1253
01:08:15,080 --> 01:08:17,920
Speaker 1: absolutely true. Yeah, yeah, but it's worth a look, especially,

1254
01:08:17,960 --> 01:08:20,320
Speaker 1: I guess I think if it turned out as ethnicity

1255
01:08:20,520 --> 01:08:23,120
Speaker 1: was Middle Eastern in origin, well, it would be worth

1256
01:08:23,200 --> 01:08:25,760
Speaker 1: pondering a little bit anyway. His ethnicity though, I mean,

1257
01:08:26,040 --> 01:08:28,559
Speaker 1: I don't want to beat that horse because it's kind

1258
01:08:28,600 --> 01:08:32,040
Speaker 1: of his getting there. But his ethnicity could have literally

1259
01:08:32,160 --> 01:08:35,360
Speaker 1: been one of at least a dozen things. That's that's

1260
01:08:35,400 --> 01:08:36,720
Speaker 1: why it would be. It would be kind of it

1261
01:08:36,880 --> 01:08:38,840
Speaker 1: would be kind of nice to find out because, like

1262
01:08:38,920 --> 01:08:41,680
Speaker 1: I said, he looks totally like he could totally be American,

1263
01:08:41,720 --> 01:08:45,640
Speaker 1: Indian at Italian. Dude, you know what he actually looks like.

1264
01:08:45,760 --> 01:08:49,000
Speaker 1: It could be from all kinds of parts. At times,

1265
01:08:49,040 --> 01:08:52,559
Speaker 1: I think he looks Slavic. I think he looks exactly

1266
01:08:52,680 --> 01:08:54,600
Speaker 1: like you know when they do those progressions of like

1267
01:08:54,760 --> 01:08:57,120
Speaker 1: what what's everybody going to look like in a hundred years,

1268
01:08:57,160 --> 01:09:00,479
Speaker 1: And it's just like this amalgamation every don't know, it's

1269
01:09:00,479 --> 01:09:04,760
Speaker 1: not as you age, it's the amalgamation merged. He looks

1270
01:09:04,840 --> 01:09:06,680
Speaker 1: like that to me, it I mean, he really just

1271
01:09:06,800 --> 01:09:09,760
Speaker 1: looks like it's just this jumble of like a bunch

1272
01:09:09,800 --> 01:09:13,360
Speaker 1: of stuff. But that's just me. Um, okay, So the

1273
01:09:13,520 --> 01:09:16,360
Speaker 1: only other theory we have is murder. Oh I like

1274
01:09:16,520 --> 01:09:19,400
Speaker 1: this one, of course, you always like this one. You know.

1275
01:09:19,600 --> 01:09:23,439
Speaker 1: The things that people give to support this are he

1276
01:09:23,560 --> 01:09:26,519
Speaker 1: may not have been alone Sunday night, the complete lack

1277
01:09:26,640 --> 01:09:30,280
Speaker 1: of personal belongings, like you know, his room could have

1278
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:33,160
Speaker 1: been yeah clean, like they could have taken a backpack

1279
01:09:33,280 --> 01:09:37,479
Speaker 1: that he might have had. Um, can you I'm sorry,

1280
01:09:37,520 --> 01:09:39,960
Speaker 1: you're gonna need to give me a little detail. I

1281
01:09:40,080 --> 01:09:42,720
Speaker 1: think I know how this is supposed to have played out,

1282
01:09:43,280 --> 01:09:47,559
Speaker 1: but how was the murder supposed to have been carried out.

1283
01:09:49,560 --> 01:09:54,720
Speaker 1: I mean he was, he's in a hanging, and it does.

1284
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,679
Speaker 1: It did not appear that there was any struggle marks

1285
01:09:58,000 --> 01:10:00,960
Speaker 1: on his body. Yeah, and that think at your marks

1286
01:10:01,040 --> 01:10:03,280
Speaker 1: anywhere other than where the belt was. So that's why

1287
01:10:03,320 --> 01:10:06,679
Speaker 1: I'm trying to understand, like how this he was murdered

1288
01:10:06,760 --> 01:10:10,720
Speaker 1: theory has anything behind it other than it must be

1289
01:10:11,200 --> 01:10:14,240
Speaker 1: well two things. One thing that I did not mention

1290
01:10:14,479 --> 01:10:17,400
Speaker 1: before but I will mention now is that his system

1291
01:10:17,520 --> 01:10:20,840
Speaker 1: was completely clean. He had no alcohol, tobacco, or drug

1292
01:10:21,000 --> 01:10:24,639
Speaker 1: in his system, so he wasn't that. But convincing someone

1293
01:10:24,680 --> 01:10:26,960
Speaker 1: to kill himselves is kind of murder, Okay, So it's

1294
01:10:27,040 --> 01:10:30,720
Speaker 1: not that somebody hung him there and then held him

1295
01:10:30,800 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: down till he died. I don't think that. I have

1296
01:10:33,520 --> 01:10:36,200
Speaker 1: definitely seen some people online saying he must have been

1297
01:10:36,280 --> 01:10:40,479
Speaker 1: drugged with some sort of well they were like, oh,

1298
01:10:40,560 --> 01:10:43,519
Speaker 1: it just didn't show up in the top. You don't

1299
01:10:43,520 --> 01:10:46,360
Speaker 1: really know what they're checking for the toxicology. Yeah, maybe

1300
01:10:46,400 --> 01:10:48,920
Speaker 1: somebody could have gassed in with carbon monoxide from a car.

1301
01:10:49,120 --> 01:10:50,439
Speaker 1: I don't know if they checked for that or not.

1302
01:10:50,680 --> 01:10:54,080
Speaker 1: Who knows. Yeah, So I don't know. I don't think

1303
01:10:54,200 --> 01:10:56,800
Speaker 1: this theory works particularly well The only other thing that

1304
01:10:58,000 --> 01:11:00,400
Speaker 1: can come up in evidence for this would be the

1305
01:11:00,680 --> 01:11:04,320
Speaker 1: weird discrepancies in the handwriting, which is show was talking

1306
01:11:04,360 --> 01:11:07,439
Speaker 1: a little bit about this earlier. Yeah, well, well, the

1307
01:11:07,800 --> 01:11:10,560
Speaker 1: discrepancy in this sign in note I think can be

1308
01:11:10,640 --> 01:11:14,160
Speaker 1: explained pretty easily because if you look at it where

1309
01:11:14,160 --> 01:11:16,560
Speaker 1: he put his name in his address down, it's a

1310
01:11:16,600 --> 01:11:18,680
Speaker 1: piece of paper. I think it was like the back

1311
01:11:18,760 --> 01:11:21,360
Speaker 1: of an envelope. Actually it was. Obviously it was a

1312
01:11:21,520 --> 01:11:23,560
Speaker 1: very formal set up at this little bent. Yes, so

1313
01:11:23,560 --> 01:11:25,000
Speaker 1: it was. Actually it was the it was at the

1314
01:11:25,080 --> 01:11:27,280
Speaker 1: front of an envelope, and then that was where they

1315
01:11:27,320 --> 01:11:29,439
Speaker 1: would put the cash that he had paid for the

1316
01:11:29,560 --> 01:11:32,400
Speaker 1: night of the hotel. And then any time anybody would

1317
01:11:32,400 --> 01:11:34,160
Speaker 1: go to pay more towards the room, they would just

1318
01:11:34,240 --> 01:11:36,200
Speaker 1: keep putting it in the envelope. And when they checked out,

1319
01:11:36,200 --> 01:11:39,559
Speaker 1: they would look an envelope and see and they would

1320
01:11:39,560 --> 01:11:41,960
Speaker 1: look an envelope and see, okay, you've paid for three nights,

1321
01:11:42,040 --> 01:11:44,479
Speaker 1: you were here three nights, Great, you're good to go. Yeah, right,

1322
01:11:44,600 --> 01:11:46,360
Speaker 1: So it was actually on an envelope, Yeah, it was.

1323
01:11:46,520 --> 01:11:48,479
Speaker 1: And so you can see where somebody has written three

1324
01:11:48,520 --> 01:11:54,000
Speaker 1: lines there written date, name, address, state, and three lines

1325
01:11:54,360 --> 01:11:58,000
Speaker 1: and then you see laws handwriting law static from ten

1326
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:01,040
Speaker 1: nineteen South Progressive Street, and then blow up. I say

1327
01:12:01,080 --> 01:12:03,400
Speaker 1: it says I d and then somebody to the writer

1328
01:12:03,479 --> 01:12:07,680
Speaker 1: that has written Meridian Comma Idaho. It's the same handwriting.

1329
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:10,920
Speaker 1: It's not Lyle's handwriting, but it's the same handwriting as

1330
01:12:10,960 --> 01:12:13,920
Speaker 1: whoever it was that wrote date state and date name,

1331
01:12:13,960 --> 01:12:15,960
Speaker 1: address and state on the left. So that could have

1332
01:12:16,000 --> 01:12:18,080
Speaker 1: been the clerk took it from him and said, wait, wait,

1333
01:12:18,439 --> 01:12:21,639
Speaker 1: what is what what? No, that's what I mean. I'm

1334
01:12:21,640 --> 01:12:24,560
Speaker 1: not saying it's suspicious. That's what I'm saying is That's

1335
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:26,599
Speaker 1: what I'm saying is the clerk said, what's the city?

1336
01:12:26,720 --> 01:12:28,479
Speaker 1: And the clerk wrote it, and the clark was the person,

1337
01:12:29,439 --> 01:12:32,519
Speaker 1: and so people say those discrepancies are suspicious and not

1338
01:12:32,600 --> 01:12:35,080
Speaker 1: at all. I would agree with that, But then again, too, um,

1339
01:12:36,080 --> 01:12:38,280
Speaker 1: you know, I don't know Meridian, Idaho, or maybe the

1340
01:12:38,320 --> 01:12:40,479
Speaker 1: clerk just knew it was just not I don't know.

1341
01:12:40,880 --> 01:12:43,360
Speaker 1: You can't because there was no zip code. Yeah, if

1342
01:12:43,400 --> 01:12:45,040
Speaker 1: there were zip code, i'd say they you know, the

1343
01:12:45,120 --> 01:12:47,920
Speaker 1: investigators wrote it because they knew. But the one thing

1344
01:12:48,000 --> 01:12:50,960
Speaker 1: I will say is I do think the handwriting. I

1345
01:12:51,040 --> 01:12:53,280
Speaker 1: think he was masking his handwriting, and that explains this.

1346
01:12:53,439 --> 01:12:57,080
Speaker 1: But I will say that the suicide, the note that

1347
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:01,760
Speaker 1: just SAIDs suicide in the trash looked pretty different to

1348
01:13:01,880 --> 01:13:04,439
Speaker 1: me than the handwriting that said for the room. Well,

1349
01:13:04,479 --> 01:13:06,880
Speaker 1: and I got to say it though, the like my

1350
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,880
Speaker 1: handwriting can depend on my mood, my posture, Like if

1351
01:13:10,920 --> 01:13:13,840
Speaker 1: I'm standing over a table writing versus sitting down at

1352
01:13:13,880 --> 01:13:16,760
Speaker 1: the table writing, all that stuff affects that how much

1353
01:13:16,840 --> 01:13:19,920
Speaker 1: coffee I've had, that kind of thing. Yeah, I agree

1354
01:13:20,520 --> 01:13:24,000
Speaker 1: that affect your handwriting, But yeah, I mean the only

1355
01:13:24,040 --> 01:13:27,000
Speaker 1: other thing is that that people say that because he

1356
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:29,560
Speaker 1: had written suicide on the little piece of paper that

1357
01:13:29,800 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 1: he that was somebody he had written home or something

1358
01:13:32,720 --> 01:13:36,040
Speaker 1: like that. But I don't I don't know. I would

1359
01:13:36,040 --> 01:13:38,560
Speaker 1: think that if he had written anything else. You know,

1360
01:13:38,640 --> 01:13:41,760
Speaker 1: you always see this in the movies occasionally this is

1361
01:13:41,880 --> 01:13:45,040
Speaker 1: real is somebody writes on the little pad of paper

1362
01:13:45,120 --> 01:13:47,920
Speaker 1: that's in the hotel room and then pulls it away

1363
01:13:48,439 --> 01:13:51,240
Speaker 1: and they can see the impressions in the next the

1364
01:13:51,320 --> 01:13:53,880
Speaker 1: next couple of sheets of paper. But you would think

1365
01:13:53,880 --> 01:13:57,160
Speaker 1: that they would have looked for that thing to see, well,

1366
01:13:57,720 --> 01:14:00,479
Speaker 1: did anybody write on this? So you think they would have.

1367
01:14:00,800 --> 01:14:03,000
Speaker 1: But since we don't know what he was doing for

1368
01:14:03,080 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 1: two days, he could have written it somewhere else, or

1369
01:14:05,920 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 1: he could have gone and bought a different you know,

1370
01:14:08,520 --> 01:14:11,840
Speaker 1: just a nice card or something like that. So we

1371
01:14:12,800 --> 01:14:14,200
Speaker 1: at the end of the day, this is just a

1372
01:14:14,320 --> 01:14:16,920
Speaker 1: totally unsatisfying case that we've talked about for an hour

1373
01:14:17,040 --> 01:14:20,320
Speaker 1: and a half. It isn't satisfying. I would like to

1374
01:14:20,360 --> 01:14:24,040
Speaker 1: see them take the step analysis and broaden into the

1375
01:14:24,200 --> 01:14:25,840
Speaker 1: entire world, to what other parts of the world he

1376
01:14:25,960 --> 01:14:30,599
Speaker 1: might have lived in previously, you know. And uh, another

1377
01:14:30,720 --> 01:14:33,240
Speaker 1: not eleven connection is perhaps he was a Saudi citizen

1378
01:14:33,920 --> 01:14:37,720
Speaker 1: and his death was just just kind of because you know,

1379
01:14:37,760 --> 01:14:39,479
Speaker 1: I did come up from actually a fairly well to

1380
01:14:39,520 --> 01:14:42,120
Speaker 1: do background, but it was kind of a coincidence. And

1381
01:14:42,640 --> 01:14:44,160
Speaker 1: or maybe he was just worried about the future of

1382
01:14:44,240 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 1: his country after it turned up. The nineteen of the

1383
01:14:46,160 --> 01:14:49,439
Speaker 1: Guys Night, like most of the hijackers for Saudi Nationals

1384
01:14:50,160 --> 01:14:53,200
Speaker 1: and Saudi Arabia of course, is a participant memoration in

1385
01:14:53,280 --> 01:14:55,719
Speaker 1: interpoal and of course his fingerprints and all the identify

1386
01:14:55,920 --> 01:14:59,800
Speaker 1: find stuff was sent to Interpol. Nothing came back be

1387
01:15:00,000 --> 01:15:02,479
Speaker 1: that it could be at the saudiast for example, got

1388
01:15:02,560 --> 01:15:05,160
Speaker 1: the favor for him and they ran and oh oh

1389
01:15:05,280 --> 01:15:08,160
Speaker 1: yeah it's ted. Oh that would be embarrassing after all

1390
01:15:08,200 --> 01:15:10,840
Speaker 1: these other things. Let's just tell him we've got nothing

1391
01:15:11,040 --> 01:15:15,719
Speaker 1: that doesn't exist, right, no match now, sorry guys. Yeah, yeah, yeah,

1392
01:15:16,479 --> 01:15:19,720
Speaker 1: I don't know. It's just super unsatisfying and really sad. Yeah.

1393
01:15:20,000 --> 01:15:21,880
Speaker 1: I mean it would be nicest if we could find

1394
01:15:21,920 --> 01:15:23,880
Speaker 1: out who Lyle was and you know, put a name

1395
01:15:23,920 --> 01:15:26,120
Speaker 1: to his face and everything like that. So if you

1396
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:28,920
Speaker 1: know's got some family, Yeah, if you know Ile. Obviously

1397
01:15:28,960 --> 01:15:30,760
Speaker 1: you're not talking, so we're not going to ask you

1398
01:15:30,840 --> 01:15:33,519
Speaker 1: for an email. Yeah, don't send us an email. Don't

1399
01:15:33,840 --> 01:15:39,960
Speaker 1: actually do please because I really i'd really love you.

1400
01:15:40,040 --> 01:15:44,320
Speaker 1: Don't want to read your dumb email. Um, well, do

1401
01:15:44,439 --> 01:15:46,439
Speaker 1: you guys have anything else? I got nothing else on

1402
01:15:46,520 --> 01:15:50,559
Speaker 1: this No, unfortunately not. Yeah, if we want to see

1403
01:15:50,600 --> 01:15:53,720
Speaker 1: some of our research that we did, um, you can

1404
01:15:53,920 --> 01:15:57,320
Speaker 1: find that as well as links to buying merch You

1405
01:15:57,360 --> 01:15:59,800
Speaker 1: can also listen to our episodes. You can also find

1406
01:16:00,479 --> 01:16:04,960
Speaker 1: entire comprehensive episode list on our website. That website is,

1407
01:16:05,000 --> 01:16:09,040
Speaker 1: of course, Thinking Sideways podcast dot com. You can listen

1408
01:16:09,200 --> 01:16:11,559
Speaker 1: you know where you're finding us to listen to us. Uh.

1409
01:16:11,960 --> 01:16:15,200
Speaker 1: If you can subscribe wherever you're listening to us, do

1410
01:16:15,320 --> 01:16:17,799
Speaker 1: that if you haven't already. If you can rate and review,

1411
01:16:18,600 --> 01:16:22,200
Speaker 1: do that because that's how other people find us. You

1412
01:16:22,320 --> 01:16:26,519
Speaker 1: can find us on social media. We're on Facebook. We're

1413
01:16:26,520 --> 01:16:29,360
Speaker 1: actually twice on Facebook. We've got a page and a group.

1414
01:16:29,479 --> 01:16:33,760
Speaker 1: So like the page, joined the group when you yeah,

1415
01:16:33,840 --> 01:16:36,360
Speaker 1: when you join the group, make sure to answer those

1416
01:16:36,439 --> 01:16:40,599
Speaker 1: questions or else our mods probably won't let you in personally.

1417
01:16:41,040 --> 01:16:43,519
Speaker 1: Bouncers of the Internet, they are, they are our bouncers

1418
01:16:43,560 --> 01:16:46,439
Speaker 1: of the Internet. Uh. You can find us on Twitter,

1419
01:16:46,680 --> 01:16:49,840
Speaker 1: where we are Thinking Sideways. You can also find us

1420
01:16:49,880 --> 01:16:54,160
Speaker 1: on Reddit, where our subreddit is Surprise Thinking Sideways. UM,

1421
01:16:54,320 --> 01:16:58,479
Speaker 1: I know it's just Surprise twist. You can also you

1422
01:16:58,479 --> 01:17:00,920
Speaker 1: can send us an email if you just want to

1423
01:17:00,960 --> 01:17:03,160
Speaker 1: talk to us or like whatever. I don't really care why,

1424
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:05,200
Speaker 1: I just send us an email. The email address is

1425
01:17:05,240 --> 01:17:08,680
Speaker 1: Thinking Sideways podcast at gmail dot com. I think that's

1426
01:17:08,720 --> 01:17:13,040
Speaker 1: everything pretty much. Yeah we did that. Yeah we're good. Yeah. Okay,

1427
01:17:13,120 --> 01:17:17,680
Speaker 1: So all of that having been said, UM, I'm going

1428
01:17:17,720 --> 01:17:20,639
Speaker 1: to get out of here. We'll tech you guys later.

1429
01:17:21,240 --> 01:17:23,559
Speaker 1: Back on the bus for me. Bye guys. Bye.