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Speaker 1: Broadcasting live from the Abraham Lincoln Radio Studio the George

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Speaker 1: Washington Broadcast Center. Jack Armstrong and Joe Getty arm Strong

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Speaker 1: and get Jaky and he Armstrong and Yetty.

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Speaker 2: The future for Wendy's. They call it Fresh AI. Here's

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Speaker 2: how it works. A customer drives up and talks into

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Speaker 2: this speaker.

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Speaker 1: Hi, welcome to Wendy's. Feel free to order whenever you

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Speaker 1: are ready.

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Speaker 2: The AI takes the order inside. Human workers watch a

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Speaker 2: monitor as the order comes, then they prepare the meal.

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Speaker 2: In twenty twenty three, wendy started offering AI drive throughs

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Speaker 2: now nearly one hundred across nineteen states, with more on

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Speaker 2: the way. Wendy's partnered with Google Cloud to create their tech.

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Speaker 2: It uses generative AI, which means it's always learning and

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Speaker 2: should improve over time.

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Speaker 1: I feel like they're stretching what people generally mean when

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Speaker 1: they're talking about AI, because the whole uh, what can

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Speaker 1: we help you with computer voice? And then you tell

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Speaker 1: them prescriptions has been around for ten years. So if

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Speaker 1: you're calling that AI, okay, fine, because it is artificial,

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Speaker 1: it's not human. They draw lines. Yeah, but that's I

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Speaker 1: don't think that's where we're Yeah, it's funny.

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Speaker 3: My comment was going to be, We're gonna raise the

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Speaker 3: wages of fast food workers until it's impossible to employ them,

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Speaker 3: to make sure they don't have a chance of keeping

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Speaker 3: their jobs.

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Speaker 4: Gavin Newsom with his idiotic, bizarre abuse of the economy.

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Speaker 4: My reaction is, I don't mind any of this stuff

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Speaker 4: as long as it works. But if it's like the

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Speaker 4: bank or the pharmacy or any other place I ever

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Speaker 4: call with those stupid systems, I'm gonna pull up and

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Speaker 4: say I'd like a cheeseburger.

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Speaker 1: Did you say shake, no cheeseburger? Did you say chicken sandwich? Now?

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Speaker 1: Did you say you want it raw? A raw chicken sandwich?

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Speaker 4: Please pull up to the next window, right exactly.

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Speaker 1: And it makes me inside right human being agent press

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Speaker 1: zero something. I don't want any of the I like

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Speaker 1: when they give you three options and none of them

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Speaker 1: are your option. I don't want any of those three things.

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Speaker 1: Did you want checking savings or mortgages? None of those?

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Speaker 1: What am I supposed to do now, computer lady? Three choices? Anyway?

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Speaker 1: I only bring up the AI thing because ooh, video vidio,

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Speaker 1: which was a hot of stock in America over the

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Speaker 1: last couple of years. If you'd put or if I

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Speaker 1: to put a whole bunch of money in there, and

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Speaker 1: you know I'd be I'd be on a yacht somewhere

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Speaker 1: right now. That's how much. And part of the reason

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Speaker 1: they make computer chips, super fast computer chips, and the

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Speaker 1: reason it is skyrocketed so much is the idea that

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Speaker 1: AI is gonna be the biggest thing ever and it's

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Speaker 1: gonna need tons and tons of the fastest computer chips

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Speaker 1: out there to be able to do it. And that's

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Speaker 1: why this is the hottest stock going and only the

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Speaker 1: best chips will do anything less than the best chips,

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Speaker 1: and you don't have a chance of competing. Except for today.

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Speaker 1: We found out apparently that China has their own AI

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Speaker 1: thing called deep Seek, and it's really good and they

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Speaker 1: did it with slow chips, and Nvidia stock dropped twelve

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Speaker 1: percent and people are thinking, whoa, maybe you don't need

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Speaker 1: super fast chips to do AI. Just to skip to

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Speaker 1: some of the headlines on this, deep Seek is the

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Speaker 1: Chinese thing. We were told by experts to come up

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Speaker 1: with this level of AI, and the specialists say Deep

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Speaker 1: Seeks is still behind Open AI and Google, thank god,

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Speaker 1: are good American AIS, but it is a close rival,

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Speaker 1: despite using fewer and much less advanced chips and in

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Speaker 1: some cases skipping many steps the US TO developers thought

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Speaker 1: were essential to be able to do this sort of thing.

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Speaker 1: We were told by our experts it take between one

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Speaker 1: hundred million and a billion dollars to come up with

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Speaker 1: something like this. I mean, you got a the best

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Speaker 1: case scenario one hundred million, but probably somewhere, you know,

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Speaker 1: half billion to a billion dollars in the very fastest

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Speaker 1: ships that exist. Deep Seek did it with, or China

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Speaker 1: did it with much slower trips for about five and

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Speaker 1: a half million dollars. Wow, five and a half million dollars.

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Speaker 4: And another aspect of this worth mentioning is that we

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Speaker 4: were told that, don't worry, we'll keep the dirty commies

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Speaker 4: down with these export controls. But evidently they didn't control

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Speaker 4: nearly as much as it was claimed they would.

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Speaker 1: In terms of progress, the headline being Silicon Valley is

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Speaker 1: raving about a maid in China a eye model. Deep

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Speaker 1: Seek is being called amazing and impressive despite working with

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Speaker 1: less advanced chips, which is its own because that was

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Speaker 1: our big advantage. We got the super fast chips here

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Speaker 1: in America. You don't have them. We can make them.

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Speaker 1: They're gonna get better and better and better. And if

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Speaker 1: for whatever reason, the Chinese can do it without the

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Speaker 1: super fast chips. Who knows where this goes?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, it was Marc Andreesen, the famed Silicon Valley venture capitalists,

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Speaker 4: who said, and he's been advising Trump. He has the

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Speaker 4: ear of the king, he said, quote deep SEEKR one

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Speaker 4: is one of the most amazing and impressive breakthroughs I've

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Speaker 4: ever seen, and he's seen some.

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Speaker 1: Deep Seek's advances sparked to sell off, led by chip

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Speaker 1: SHARE's early Monday on concerns over where the US huge

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Speaker 1: spending by US tech giants on leading edge semiconductors and

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Speaker 1: AI infrastructure was even justified. Ew so maybe you didn't

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Speaker 1: need to do all that. Oh yipes, We'll see where

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Speaker 1: this goes. Why, it'd be pretty mortifying if.

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Speaker 4: The United States of America had its pants pulled down

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Speaker 4: in the world of fast moving, low budget entrepreneurialism by

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Speaker 4: the communist Chinese.

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Speaker 1: That'd be too much to take. It'd be interesting.

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Speaker 4: I could take a pair of bicycle repairmen in Ohio

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Speaker 4: beating the US government to the design of the first

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Speaker 4: functioning the airplane powered flight. But man, if it's the

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Speaker 4: rush of the communist Chinese.

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Speaker 1: Oof. Yeah, since in theory it's all about being nimble

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Speaker 1: and quick and having the best talent and all these

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Speaker 1: different things that supposedly we have just such an advantage

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Speaker 1: over China. If they were able to do it way

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Speaker 1: less money, I don't know. Well, the communist thumb on

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Speaker 1: them all the time, Yeah, that would be. That would

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Speaker 1: be troubling. Wonder what we missed. You hate to have

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Speaker 1: a communist thumb on you. I wonder what we missed.

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Speaker 1: Did they just get lucky and have a you know,

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Speaker 1: their own Steve Jobs it's just super brilliant, or do

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Speaker 1: we have our own bureaucracies that have built up over time.

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Speaker 1: I'm in some of these tech worlds that are getting

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Speaker 1: thick and sludgy.

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Speaker 4: If you ask me to compare and contrast the Kansas

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Speaker 4: City Chiefs and Philadelphia Eagles offenses, I could do that

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Speaker 4: for a minute or two and not sound like an idiot.

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Speaker 4: You're asking me how the Chinese pull this off? I

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Speaker 4: will pass and defer to others.

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Speaker 1: All right, But I hope the smart people figure out

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Speaker 1: what maybe happened there. Yeah, that's disturbing though. You think

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Speaker 1: they have spies in the tech sector, Well, I guarantee you.

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Speaker 1: I mean they've stole the technology. I guarantee you they do.

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Speaker 1: But so you're like, is it maybe the way the

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Speaker 1: Soviets got the nuclear bomb, they had spies at Los Alamos,

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Speaker 1: Maybe that maybe they got our stuff and added to

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Speaker 1: their stuff.

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Speaker 4: I could be yeah, that's absolutely possible. In fact, I

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Speaker 4: think you can assume that there's an element of that.

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Speaker 4: But uh, heck, I mean, if our guys are tech gurus,

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Speaker 4: learned from this all the better.

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Speaker 1: Competition. Competition makes you strong longer. Yeah, yeah, if nothing else,

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Speaker 1: it's going to light a fire under their hind ends

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Speaker 1: to want to They go, we ain't. We ain't the

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Speaker 1: king of the hill quite the way we thought we were. Well.

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Speaker 4: On the other hand, if communist overlord's design their army

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Speaker 4: of commi bots to sweep over the landscape and subjugate us,

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Speaker 4: now that'll be bad. That won't make us stronger. But

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Speaker 4: competition does generally speak.

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Speaker 1: And nobody wants to be under the old CT as

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Speaker 1: we know.

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Speaker 4: No, certainly not the old communist thumb commy bots. It's

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Speaker 4: a nightmarish scenario. You know what's another nightmare scenario and

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Speaker 4: much more likely to happen, is somebody break into your

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Speaker 4: house and steal your stuff, or threaten your loved ones,

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Speaker 4: or just remove that sense of security that you have.

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Speaker 4: And that's why I simply save home securities active door

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Speaker 4: take two, Active guard.

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Speaker 1: Outdoor protection is so great it stops break ins before

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Speaker 1: they happen. Sorry, he's reading some good texts about the

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Speaker 1: the Chinese AI and stuff like that. I'll bring to

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Speaker 1: you in just a second. And of course they're using

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Speaker 1: AI with the Simply Safe to get an eye on

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Speaker 1: those people that are thinking about breaking in your house

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Speaker 1: and then live agency all that. And you'd think this

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Speaker 1: would be super expensive, but about a dollar a day,

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Speaker 4: Oh man, any of us who'd squandered our money on

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Speaker 4: the traditional security system. That's amazing, best monitoring you've ever

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Speaker 4: seen your life for around a dollar a day, sixty

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Speaker 4: day satisfaction guarantee your money back, and this year or

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Speaker 4: this month is not going to be much money either.

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Speaker 4: Start the year with a great peace of mind, with

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Speaker 4: Get fifty percent off a new system with a professional

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Speaker 4: off simply safe dot com slash armstrong.

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Speaker 1: There's no safe flight, simply save. Somebody texted a good point.

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Speaker 1: A Chinese AI doesn't have to worry about being woke.

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Speaker 1: They're not spending a second thinking about that.

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Speaker 4: Oh yeah, true enough, Although they are up for the

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Speaker 4: Communist Party's evils. They did some test searches on there

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Speaker 4: and you can't get it to say anything mean about

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Speaker 4: Shijin ting.

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Speaker 1: But ours are screwed up in that way too. In

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Speaker 1: a way, well, speaking of the evil Chinese Communist Party,

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Speaker 1: how about the news that came out over the weekend.

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Speaker 1: CIA says the most likely way COVID came about is

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Speaker 1: a leak at the wool Wuhan lab. Now, they do

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Speaker 1: say their level of certainty is low, but it's the

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Speaker 1: most likely thing, which is the same thing the FBI said,

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Speaker 1: it's the most likely thing. We can't prove it, but

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Speaker 1: it's the most likely thing. What I was wondering, and

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Speaker 1: I was thinking, I had a certain person in mind

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Speaker 1: when I was thinking about this because I'd had an

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Speaker 1: argument with them after the FBI announced this a couple

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Speaker 1: of years ago, and they said, yeah, but that doesn't

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Speaker 1: prove it. Well, no, I realized that, but it's the

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Speaker 1: most likely thing. Yes, but that's not proof that it is.

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Speaker 1: And I'm My reaction to that crowd and that person

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Speaker 1: would be what are you using for your guidance? Is

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Speaker 1: what's driving your pushback? Is there anything that drives the

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Speaker 1: pushback to this theory other than Trump blamed it on

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Speaker 1: the Chinese and so you don't want to be on

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Speaker 1: his side? Is there anything other than that? No?

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Speaker 4: No, certainly not among laymen. I mean, if you are

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Speaker 4: a microbiologist and you say, I do not find the

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Speaker 4: comparison of the spike proteins to natural proteins in bad

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Speaker 4: Standard to be compelling.

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Speaker 1: Okay, fine, that's all right. I'll listen to you. I

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Speaker 1: think you're wrong, but I'll listen to you. But no,

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Speaker 1: if it's just a layman saying no, no, I think

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Speaker 1: it was naturally occurring because they've been taught to hate

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Speaker 1: everything Trump believes. No, you're a get out of the way,

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Speaker 1: you're a cultist. It's got to be especially now that

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Speaker 1: the FBI and CIA have come out and said it's

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Speaker 1: most likely thing. But the other part of that that

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Speaker 1: I want to make sure you heard because you might

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Speaker 1: not know this if I can find my particular text

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Speaker 1: around that. And we're going to get to the stuff

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Speaker 1: that came out over the weekend about how schools didn't

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Speaker 1: it didn't help anything to have the schools show down

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Speaker 1: the way we did, which is really really maddening. The

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Speaker 1: uh bla blah blah blah. No clear benefit from shutting

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Speaker 1: down the schools. Yeah, we're gonna get into that topic

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Speaker 1: a little bit later. Give myself two seconds to find this.

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Speaker 1: If I can, I'll just summarize it. I don't go ahead.

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Speaker 1: The CIA analysts supporting lab origin. Thing was completed and

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Speaker 1: published internally during the Biden administration. That came out during

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Speaker 1: the Bid Biden administration. You're only hearing about hearing about

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Speaker 1: it now because Trump is in office. It was held

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Speaker 1: from the public by the Biden administration in violation by

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Speaker 1: the way of the COVID Act, which mandated the release.

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Speaker 1: They didn't want. So you're so concerned about misinformation, Joe Biden. Oh,

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Speaker 1: these these social media platforms and they're not even gonna

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Speaker 1: fact check anymore. Jack, and I'm worried about misinformation. How

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Speaker 1: about the opposite of misinformation, hiding facts, which is its

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Speaker 1: own kind of lies bi omission, it's its own misinformation.

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Speaker 1: What do you think about, bat Well?

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Speaker 4: That was a thread that ran through virtually all of

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Speaker 4: the Biden administration's COVID policies, dishonesty and suppression of any descent,

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Speaker 4: even when that descent, the Great Barrington Declaration was one

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Speaker 4: hundred percent correct.

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Speaker 1: Oh, I'm getting way closer on board to the whole

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden is the worst president we've ever had, and

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Speaker 1: there's a whole bunch of reasons why around his pardons

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Speaker 1: and everything like that. We ought to talk about that,

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Speaker 1: among other things on the way stay with us, Armstrong

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Speaker 1: and Yetti.

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Speaker 5: The country's bird flu outbreak is creating egg shortages and

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Speaker 5: sending prices soaring. At least thirty six million egg laying

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Speaker 5: chickens have been killed in recent months to prevent the

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Speaker 5: spread of the virus. There has been no evidence of

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Speaker 5: person to person spread, but at least sixty seven people

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Speaker 5: have been infected and one person has died.

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Speaker 1: It spent a great week. I basically hit all my

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Speaker 1: campaign promises, except for the one people cared about. Price

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Speaker 1: of eggs all time high. Who would have thought it'd

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Speaker 1: be easier to get He's firing Gaza. They bring down

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Speaker 1: the price of eggs. You might have to take the

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Speaker 1: yl on that one.

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Speaker 6: You know, we're looking into some fabulous alternative egg options,

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Speaker 6: such as seagull or perhaps Catbury.

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Speaker 4: One of the few laughs in the Saturday Night Live

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Speaker 4: cold Open. In my opinion, you know it's bad for

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Speaker 4: the birds. The bird flew, there's no doubt about that.

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Speaker 4: And it's certain the price of eggs. But can you

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Speaker 4: stop trying to convince me that I'm going to die

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Speaker 4: of it? We're clearly not anyway. Jack, Every year the

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Speaker 4: major industrialized countries of the year administer and I had

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Speaker 4: no idea of this. A global test of adult know how,

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Speaker 4: which measures job readiness and problem solving among workers in

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Speaker 4: industrialized countries.

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Speaker 1: What how do they test my know how?

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Speaker 3: Uh?

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Speaker 4: They're all sorts of questions that the grill workers between

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Speaker 4: the ages of sixteen sixty f five to do all

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Speaker 4: sorts of stuff, make inferences from sections of text, manipulate fractions,

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Speaker 4: apply spatial reasoning, create a complex travel itinerary read a thermometer,

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Speaker 4: read a thermometer, read a thermometer, and finding information from

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Speaker 4: a website, and American workers are falling behind those in

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Speaker 4: other rich countries. We have lost more ground after the

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Speaker 4: pandemic and have gained less of it back reading a thermometer. Anyway,

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Speaker 4: I could hit you with the statistics, but they are troubling.

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Speaker 1: I don't think you really do gain it back. Based

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Speaker 1: on my personal experience and talking to teachers, it's just lost.

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Speaker 1: They're just going to be behind.

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Speaker 4: I think if there were a carefully conceived and energetically

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Speaker 4: implemented plan to catch the kids up, I think you

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Speaker 4: could do it.

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Speaker 1: But we lack both of those things. Boy, I don't

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Speaker 1: know if that's possible unless you really redid things. Lots

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Speaker 1: of public schools barely many don't reach the incredibly easy

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Speaker 1: proficiency standards that already exist. How are you gonna I mean,

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Speaker 1: if you weren't when you were going to school all

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Speaker 1: the time, how are you gonna catch people? I don't

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Speaker 1: understand how the current structure could do that.

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Speaker 4: And if you miss the window of a child, say

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Speaker 4: seven eight years old, when they their brains are just

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Speaker 4: astounding sponges, incredibly effective at picking up information processing it learning.

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Speaker 1: You know, you cannot get that back. I think the other.

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Speaker 4: But that ought to be true more or less uniformly

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Speaker 4: across the world. Although because of Trump derangement syndrome, our

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Speaker 4: schools were closed much longer than virtually any other countries.

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Speaker 4: And it's inexcusable and unforgivable. I also just think, and

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Speaker 4: there's no denying this. Our schools have gone from an

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Speaker 4: almost exclusive emphasis on learning reading, writing and arithmetic and

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Speaker 4: history and critical thinking to now half a dozen other

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Speaker 4: goals about learning about equity and gender bending, madness and

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Speaker 4: the gender bred person and the rest of it. You know,

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Speaker 4: especially in Blue States, the kids are just they're not

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Speaker 4: focused on excellence. Here's something else having the obvious and

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Speaker 4: inevitable outcome. Here's something I'm surprised I never thought of,

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Speaker 4: or don't know. Did other countries do Zoom school? Did

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Speaker 4: they do like the United States and pretend that Zoom

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Speaker 4: was accomplishing anything, or did they resort to other ways

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Speaker 4: to try to teach their kids, Because if Zoom school

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Speaker 4: didn't exist, you might have been way more likely to

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Speaker 4: come up with a way to educate your kid at home.

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Speaker 4: I don't know, varies country by country obviously, but and

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Speaker 4: I mean this quite seriously, it is so troubling and

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Speaker 4: interesting that this actually happened in my lifetime in ours.

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Speaker 4: In other countries, they didn't have Trump derangement syndrome.

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Speaker 1: So when they would get data or see what other

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Speaker 1: countries experience was, they would say, oh, that's interesting, we

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Speaker 1: need to adjust. They wouldn't particularly screeched that it was

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Speaker 1: wrong or evil or you were causing people to die

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Speaker 1: or be banned from Facebook. They just took the information

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Speaker 1: and processed it. Trump's J six pardons were bad. Biden's

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Speaker 1: pardons were so much worse than you know, Statue Armstrong

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Speaker 1: and getty.

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Speaker 2: Senator, do you think that President Biden pardoning his own

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Speaker 2: family members set a bad precedent?

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Speaker 6: Absolutely, he was wrong to give these pardons. And among

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Speaker 6: other things, what it says now to the Trump family

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Speaker 6: and to President Trump's kids they can engage in any

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Speaker 6: kind of malfeasan's criminality, craft, whatever, and they can expect

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Speaker 6: to pardon on the way out the door. That is

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Speaker 6: not a message you want to send to this family

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Speaker 6: or really any family occupy in the White House.

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Speaker 1: That's Senator Adam Schiff, who's so full of crap. I

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Speaker 1: don't know how he sees out his eyes. Senator from

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Speaker 1: California saying, no, Joe Biden shouldn't have pardoned his family.

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Speaker 1: It's horrible, which partially knows you just how much the

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Speaker 1: Democratic establishment has turned on Joe Biden. At this point, you're.

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Speaker 4: Farther down the road of immorality than Adam Schiff and

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Speaker 4: he's calling you on it. Wow, pop calling I don't

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Speaker 4: know what a black hole black.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, they're not even gonna attempt to cover up for

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Speaker 1: but he was horrible, absolutely horrible. Just to make sure

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Speaker 1: we get both sides here, here's Lindsey Graham, who couldn't

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Speaker 1: be a bigger Trump supporter, saying this, but I fear

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Speaker 1: that you'll get more violence.

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Speaker 6: Parting the people who went into the cap and beat

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Speaker 6: up a police officer violently. I think was a mistake

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Speaker 6: because it seems to suggest that's an okay thing to do.

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Speaker 1: That's a bad day last week, the pardning of the

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Speaker 1: violent among the January sixth people, and then Joe Biden

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Speaker 1: pardoning his family preemptively. That's just not a good day

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Speaker 1: for the United States of America right there.

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Speaker 4: No, indeed, and also Biden's pardoning of the nearly fifteen

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Speaker 4: hundred quote unquote non violent drug offenders pardoning in commutations,

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Speaker 4: some of whom are absolute monsters. And that's the problem

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Speaker 4: with pardoning fifteen hundred people. It's taken quite a while

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Speaker 4: for independent journalists to say, Wow, who are all these people?

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Speaker 1: Is this justified?

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Speaker 4: And some of them the one guy who he was

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Speaker 4: pardoned because the charge that they sentenced him to several

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Speaker 4: decades in prison for was quote unquote nonviolent. He was

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Speaker 4: running a drug syndicate. This guy, on multiple occasions broke

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Speaker 4: into rivals houses or you know, disobedient dealer's houses, and

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Speaker 4: tortured their loved ones until they told them.

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Speaker 1: Where the drugs or the money was. He poured boiling

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Speaker 1: water on the wives and or girlfriends of various associates

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Speaker 1: until they screamed for mercy and revealed where the drugs were.

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Speaker 1: He tased the genitals of one woman until she revealed

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Speaker 1: where the money was. The Feds just hardly, because his

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Speaker 1: victims were so terrified, didn't get convictions on that because.

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Speaker 4: They could put them away for thirty five years on

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Speaker 4: running a giant drug syndicate. So they did, and Biden

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Speaker 4: turned this guy loose. Can you imagine the horror of

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Speaker 4: his victims, the guy's on the streets.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, the fact that some people are starting to pay

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Speaker 1: attention to all of these pardons that Joe Biden unleashed

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Speaker 1: there in the final days and hours. It won't reach

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Speaker 1: very many people, unfortunately, but just freaking horrible. The whole

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Speaker 1: people are in jail for a long time for nonviolent

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Speaker 1: drug offenses has always been, or at least for a

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Speaker 1: long long time, ridiculous. If somebody's in for what seems

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Speaker 1: like a really long charge, look closer at what they

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Speaker 1: were doing with their lives before you jump into the

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Speaker 1: they had a joint, Now they're in jail for ten years.

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Speaker 1: That's not what's going on here. But so my question is,

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Speaker 1: so all these there's a couple of reasons what you

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Speaker 1: just said. People are terrified to some of these violent people,

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Speaker 1: so they don't testify him, and then you against him,

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Speaker 1: and then you got the whole gang culture thing where

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Speaker 1: people tend not to testify against each other. And then

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Speaker 1: the Feds decide what do we need there for? We

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Speaker 1: can put this guy in jail for thirty years on

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Speaker 1: the drug charges. So you do that, where where does

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Speaker 1: Joe Biden and his crowd come up with the we

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Speaker 1: need to release these non violent drug offenders. Does he

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Speaker 1: not know? Did he not? I don't know if he

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Speaker 1: knows anything. His brain didn't work. But did the people

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Speaker 1: write beneath him not know that you got a scumbag

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Speaker 1: like this who's almost certainly going to go out and

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Speaker 1: hurt somebody again. That's when it has become a news story.

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Speaker 1: When he wrote down those who testified against him as

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Speaker 1: we speak. Yeah, when he tortures those people again and

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Speaker 1: this makes the news. Of course, what are you gonna do?

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Speaker 1: Not vote for Joe Biden? Yeah?

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Speaker 4: Yeah, Well, you know it's funny. I would not have

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Speaker 4: believed the following statement until it became clear that Biden's

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Speaker 4: inner circle was protecting him from all bad news, all

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Speaker 4: bad pole results. They were just not telling the old man.

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Speaker 4: People were warned, we've talked about this before they went

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Speaker 4: into the Oval office, do not give him any bad news.

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Speaker 1: Which is just horrendous.

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Speaker 4: But now I'm convinced that, Yeah, his left advice, far

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Speaker 4: left advisors convinced them that hey, these fifteen hundred people

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Speaker 4: are all innocence, They've been screwed. It's probably racism, mister President,

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Speaker 4: they're all really nice people and will immediately run out

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Speaker 4: to volunteer for the Kowanas Club and raise money for

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Speaker 4: blind children. And Joe Senile Joe signed the forums and

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Speaker 4: turned them all loose. But here's a couple more. Here's

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Speaker 4: a woman who embezzled nearly fifty four million dollars from

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Speaker 4: the town of Dixon, Illinois, where she was the comptroller.

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Speaker 1: And here's a dude.

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Speaker 4: Can you imagine, imagine the human carnage and grief that

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Speaker 4: this guy spread. Convicted, he was a head of a

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Speaker 4: management firm. He was convicted of defrauding investors out of

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Speaker 4: more than six hundred and sixty five million dollars according

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Speaker 4: to the paper. How many poverty stricken ulsters are there

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Speaker 4: out there because of this guy, because he made their

434
00:24:18,080 --> 00:24:19,240
Speaker 4: life savings disappear.

435
00:24:19,440 --> 00:24:21,479
Speaker 1: But no, he was a non violent offender. He had

436
00:24:21,480 --> 00:24:22,399
Speaker 1: a very long sentence.

437
00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:25,919
Speaker 4: That's not fair, and so Joe just put pen to

438
00:24:25,960 --> 00:24:29,000
Speaker 4: paper for whoever his Marxist advisers told him to.

439
00:24:29,560 --> 00:24:36,200
Speaker 1: Shocking on for instance, that really horrible example of the

440
00:24:36,359 --> 00:24:39,600
Speaker 1: violent drug gang leader who was pouring boiling water on

441
00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:44,639
Speaker 1: people to torture them. Who's now out he's now out

442
00:24:44,680 --> 00:24:47,639
Speaker 1: and about and free because Joe Biden thought it was

443
00:24:47,640 --> 00:24:51,920
Speaker 1: a good idea to pardon him. Remembering Joe Biden back

444
00:24:51,960 --> 00:24:55,879
Speaker 1: in the nineties, he was the whole super predator, really

445
00:24:55,880 --> 00:24:58,960
Speaker 1: going to double down on our laws guy, We're going

446
00:24:59,040 --> 00:25:00,840
Speaker 1: to put him in jail of they do anything worse

447
00:25:00,920 --> 00:25:03,720
Speaker 1: than jaywalking. He said, instead of saying has, I'm gonna

448
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:06,840
Speaker 1: say had because I really think he's a past tense

449
00:25:06,880 --> 00:25:08,480
Speaker 1: guy at this point. He doesn't even really know what's

450
00:25:08,480 --> 00:25:14,480
Speaker 1: going on. But he had no convictions, He had no

451
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:19,480
Speaker 1: standards or morals or ideology. He just did whatever was

452
00:25:19,560 --> 00:25:22,800
Speaker 1: hot at the time to keep himself in office. And

453
00:25:22,960 --> 00:25:25,640
Speaker 1: we mentioned this last week. Sarah Isger of The Dispatch

454
00:25:25,680 --> 00:25:27,680
Speaker 1: wrote a great piece and you can google it. This

455
00:25:27,760 --> 00:25:29,800
Speaker 1: is one of those dispatches you have to pay for

456
00:25:29,840 --> 00:25:32,080
Speaker 1: it thing, but some of their best stuff they allow

457
00:25:32,160 --> 00:25:33,639
Speaker 1: to be out there for free. And you can just

458
00:25:33,680 --> 00:25:36,000
Speaker 1: google this and read it anywhere you want. The quiet

459
00:25:36,080 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: lawlessness of Joe Biden, where she argues that he is

460
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:42,960
Speaker 1: the most lawless president we've had in US history. And

461
00:25:43,000 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 1: she's a lawyer and she goes through it thing by thing.

462
00:25:45,720 --> 00:25:47,840
Speaker 1: If you want to talk about Andrew Jackson and things

463
00:25:47,840 --> 00:25:50,560
Speaker 1: he did. She comes up with things Joe Biden did also,

464
00:25:50,880 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: But then Abraham Lincoln, Woodrow Wilson, Franklin Roosevelt, Barack Obama,

465
00:25:55,040 --> 00:25:57,960
Speaker 1: George W. Bush, Donald Trump, whoever you want to criticize

466
00:25:57,960 --> 00:26:00,879
Speaker 1: for doing lawless things, there's a there's an equivalent that

467
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:03,920
Speaker 1: Joe Biden, except Joe Biden did all of them, not

468
00:26:04,040 --> 00:26:07,399
Speaker 1: just the individual examples you can use from each presidency.

469
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:10,280
Speaker 1: He's the most lawless president we ever had, and he

470
00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:13,600
Speaker 1: should go down, as she says, he should be infamous

471
00:26:13,640 --> 00:26:16,680
Speaker 1: forever for this. I don't know that that's gonna happen.

472
00:26:16,760 --> 00:26:18,040
Speaker 1: Maybe over time. I don't know.

473
00:26:19,119 --> 00:26:22,160
Speaker 4: I think it will, I really do. He's a miserable

474
00:26:22,160 --> 00:26:23,280
Speaker 4: failure as a president.

475
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,239
Speaker 1: I don't care about that. A hum being. I care

476
00:26:26,280 --> 00:26:27,879
Speaker 1: about that obviously, but I don't care about that in

477
00:26:27,920 --> 00:26:32,760
Speaker 1: the same way the lawlessness needs to be recognized or

478
00:26:32,119 --> 00:26:35,600
Speaker 1: were we're in a race to the bottom, then of

479
00:26:35,760 --> 00:26:39,760
Speaker 1: just the whole thing falling apart. If there's not going

480
00:26:39,800 --> 00:26:44,840
Speaker 1: to be any penalty, Historians, the media, whoever talking about

481
00:26:44,840 --> 00:26:48,679
Speaker 1: all the things that he did, then of course future

482
00:26:48,720 --> 00:26:50,960
Speaker 1: presidents are going to do it. Donald Trump and whoever

483
00:26:51,040 --> 00:26:51,760
Speaker 1: else comes in the.

484
00:26:51,680 --> 00:26:56,040
Speaker 4: Future, right right, And I think we the people need to,

485
00:26:56,200 --> 00:26:58,640
Speaker 4: regardless of which way we swing, just call it when

486
00:26:58,680 --> 00:27:00,880
Speaker 4: we see it. If our side is el say, hey,

487
00:27:00,960 --> 00:27:02,880
Speaker 4: quit being evil. I don't want evil.

488
00:27:02,640 --> 00:27:07,720
Speaker 1: Done on my behalf please. Yeah, that's really rough man

489
00:27:07,800 --> 00:27:10,080
Speaker 1: and the idea. So I was listening to the podcast

490
00:27:10,160 --> 00:27:13,119
Speaker 1: which Sarah Isger was talking about. She was making the

491
00:27:13,240 --> 00:27:15,639
Speaker 1: argument that and a lot of people will probably like this,

492
00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 1: that Joe Biden's pardons were clearly worse than Donald Trump's

493
00:27:20,359 --> 00:27:25,240
Speaker 1: j six pardons in that she doesn't think old one

494
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:27,760
Speaker 1: eyed what's his name who led the Proud Boys, is

495
00:27:27,800 --> 00:27:30,000
Speaker 1: going to go out there and lead another insurrection in

496
00:27:30,040 --> 00:27:34,200
Speaker 1: which cops get beaten down. But she's certain that drug

497
00:27:34,240 --> 00:27:36,399
Speaker 1: dealer guy is going to go out and torture and

498
00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:39,399
Speaker 1: murder more people. And I think you can make that

499
00:27:39,520 --> 00:27:43,480
Speaker 1: argument pretty clearly. Yeah, Well, and you don't have to

500
00:27:43,480 --> 00:27:47,320
Speaker 1: pick one. You don't think they're both immoral as I do. Ye,

501
00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:49,240
Speaker 1: you know, call them both. Neither one of them should

502
00:27:49,240 --> 00:27:52,840
Speaker 1: have happened. Yeah, Oh, it's just it didn't get near

503
00:27:52,920 --> 00:27:57,200
Speaker 1: the coverage it should have gotten all the way around. Well,

504
00:27:57,200 --> 00:28:00,840
Speaker 1: and imagine your strategy for getting some cover for yourself

505
00:28:00,920 --> 00:28:04,200
Speaker 1: is Yes, I'm going to pardon or commune sentences of

506
00:28:04,240 --> 00:28:07,720
Speaker 1: fourteen hundred criminals, many of whom are monsters. But I

507
00:28:07,760 --> 00:28:09,840
Speaker 1: will do something so much worse than that.

508
00:28:10,400 --> 00:28:14,679
Speaker 4: I will give preemptive license for lawlessness to all of

509
00:28:14,720 --> 00:28:18,800
Speaker 4: my family and doctor Fauci, who's probably indirectly responsible for

510
00:28:18,840 --> 00:28:21,679
Speaker 4: the deaths of millions of people. Yes, that's what I'll do.

511
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:26,360
Speaker 1: Yeah, the one you get though, I understand pardoning the family.

512
00:28:27,080 --> 00:28:29,560
Speaker 1: It's selfish and wrong and the very sort of thing

513
00:28:29,560 --> 00:28:32,159
Speaker 1: our founding fathers worried about. But you understand why he

514
00:28:32,200 --> 00:28:35,200
Speaker 1: did it. We're running a family criminal enterprise, and I

515
00:28:35,240 --> 00:28:38,120
Speaker 1: don't want anybody to pay a price board. I don't

516
00:28:38,200 --> 00:28:42,240
Speaker 1: understand why you pardoned violent drug offenders because you thought

517
00:28:42,280 --> 00:28:45,320
Speaker 1: you'd curry favor with the most progressive out there so

518
00:28:45,400 --> 00:28:48,440
Speaker 1: you could what. No, he just doesn't. No.

519
00:28:48,560 --> 00:28:51,080
Speaker 4: I think you're way over estimating his role in this. No,

520
00:28:51,200 --> 00:28:54,000
Speaker 4: I wasn't there. I could be wrong, but I seriously

521
00:28:54,040 --> 00:28:57,640
Speaker 4: think it was very much like when a scammer a

522
00:28:57,680 --> 00:29:02,400
Speaker 4: monster puts the pen in the hand of a senile

523
00:29:03,040 --> 00:29:08,520
Speaker 4: elder and has them sign a form to sign over

524
00:29:08,560 --> 00:29:12,280
Speaker 4: their savings to the fraudster. I think his lefty advisors

525
00:29:12,920 --> 00:29:18,240
Speaker 4: quite literally defrauded him into thinking he was just turning loose,

526
00:29:18,600 --> 00:29:20,840
Speaker 4: innocent people who would go and go on to be

527
00:29:20,880 --> 00:29:23,719
Speaker 4: good for their community because they are neo Marxists.

528
00:29:23,880 --> 00:29:27,440
Speaker 1: So their motivation is there just that gas crowd where

529
00:29:27,480 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: nobody should be in jail.

530
00:29:29,800 --> 00:29:33,480
Speaker 4: Empty the prisons, Yeah, George Gascone, Gavin Newsom, that whole

531
00:29:34,360 --> 00:29:37,640
Speaker 4: super left Marxist empty the prisons crowd.

532
00:29:37,800 --> 00:29:42,120
Speaker 1: Yeah, boy, that's evil. Yeah.

533
00:29:42,240 --> 00:29:45,080
Speaker 4: I hope there are enough sane people close enough to

534
00:29:45,120 --> 00:29:48,040
Speaker 4: the last White House who will explain how it all

535
00:29:48,080 --> 00:29:53,680
Speaker 4: went down, And soon I think it'll be far worse

536
00:29:53,720 --> 00:29:57,480
Speaker 4: and more strange and troubling than we even imagine.

537
00:29:58,960 --> 00:30:01,800
Speaker 1: It's almost got to be, I mean it has to be.

538
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,720
Speaker 1: How else could you justify a guy like we just described,

539
00:30:04,720 --> 00:30:06,960
Speaker 1: with the boiling water and the tortures and everything like that,

540
00:30:07,200 --> 00:30:10,640
Speaker 1: getting out. Yeah, it's well, it's very much like the

541
00:30:10,720 --> 00:30:14,600
Speaker 1: leftist reform of the three strikes law in California. They

542
00:30:14,640 --> 00:30:18,840
Speaker 1: would they would hammer on this guy's a non violent

543
00:30:19,120 --> 00:30:22,120
Speaker 1: fellon look, that conviction was nonviolent, but then you look

544
00:30:22,120 --> 00:30:24,040
Speaker 1: into his background and you see no, no, that was

545
00:30:24,120 --> 00:30:24,959
Speaker 1: just the lead conviction.

546
00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:26,880
Speaker 4: That was the big one. That was the longest sentence

547
00:30:26,920 --> 00:30:29,600
Speaker 4: he got. That was quote unquote nonviolent. It was like

548
00:30:29,720 --> 00:30:32,360
Speaker 4: selling drugs to school children for a decade. But there's

549
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 4: lots and lots of violence there. But they just they

550
00:30:38,320 --> 00:30:40,640
Speaker 4: shine the or they they hang the shiny object in

551
00:30:40,640 --> 00:30:43,680
Speaker 4: front of you. Have over one conviction, say he's nonviolent,

552
00:30:44,080 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 4: they're liars.

553
00:30:46,960 --> 00:30:50,880
Speaker 1: Horrifying. I hope he does go down in history as

554
00:30:50,920 --> 00:30:53,000
Speaker 1: the word. It doesn't have to be the worst president ever.

555
00:30:54,320 --> 00:31:01,680
Speaker 1: Just a horrible, just horribly, just a horrible, lying human

556
00:31:01,720 --> 00:31:03,520
Speaker 1: being who did all kinds of things we shouldn't allow

557
00:31:03,600 --> 00:31:07,840
Speaker 1: presidents to do. Utterly unprincipled. Wow, and he pulled it

558
00:31:07,880 --> 00:31:10,600
Speaker 1: off for a very very long time. Went to the

559
00:31:10,600 --> 00:31:15,360
Speaker 1: Bob Dylan movie which is being nominated, was nominated for

560
00:31:15,400 --> 00:31:17,080
Speaker 1: Best Picture. I want to talk a little bit about that.

561
00:31:17,120 --> 00:31:20,080
Speaker 1: For a variety of reasons, my son, what does my

562
00:31:20,120 --> 00:31:24,400
Speaker 1: thirteen year old he was at least twenty years younger

563
00:31:24,400 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: than the next youngest person in the theater, for I

564
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:31,480
Speaker 1: think obvious reasons. But anyway, stay here, you made it right.

565
00:31:31,680 --> 00:32:00,960
Speaker 1: Ladders written a long time Armstrong and Yetti. He saw

566
00:32:01,040 --> 00:32:03,400
Speaker 1: Saturday in a love he saw this, so Timothy Shalomey

567
00:32:03,400 --> 00:32:07,320
Speaker 1: who plays Dylan in the new movie It's a Complete Unknown.

568
00:32:07,360 --> 00:32:10,240
Speaker 1: He's nominated for an Oscar for playing Dylan. The Pictures

569
00:32:10,440 --> 00:32:12,560
Speaker 1: nominated for Best Picture, and he did a couple of

570
00:32:13,040 --> 00:32:14,680
Speaker 1: and I'm a big Bob Dylan fan. He did a

571
00:32:14,720 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: couple of obscured Dylan songs I didn't even know in

572
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:18,960
Speaker 1: a very cool block and roll sort of way. He

573
00:32:19,040 --> 00:32:23,000
Speaker 1: was the host and musical guest. Anyway, he's one of

574
00:32:23,000 --> 00:32:25,840
Speaker 1: those guys that, like, I don't want to like him

575
00:32:25,880 --> 00:32:29,680
Speaker 1: because he's really young, and he's really pretty and he just,

576
00:32:29,840 --> 00:32:32,040
Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to like that kind of guy.

577
00:32:32,200 --> 00:32:34,680
Speaker 1: But talented and rich too. I hate him. Say that

578
00:32:34,800 --> 00:32:40,760
Speaker 1: I hate him. Yeah. Anyway, I loved the movie and

579
00:32:40,800 --> 00:32:42,920
Speaker 1: my son liked it. My thirteen year old really liked it,

580
00:32:42,960 --> 00:32:45,120
Speaker 1: which was kind of shocking. Well, I actually ended up

581
00:32:45,120 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: going on Saturday because I was had a little gathering

582
00:32:47,640 --> 00:32:50,719
Speaker 1: thingy and somebody came in and said, uh, I went

583
00:32:50,840 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: to complete unown lass, Like, oh yeah, I went the

584
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,080
Speaker 1: other night. It was awesome and it was a and

585
00:32:55,080 --> 00:32:56,800
Speaker 1: a bunch of people were chiming in with how much

586
00:32:56,880 --> 00:32:59,239
Speaker 1: they loved it. And it ranged in age from like

587
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:05,840
Speaker 1: twenty two seventy two, and I thought interesting, And my

588
00:33:05,920 --> 00:33:07,920
Speaker 1: son likes Bob Dylan, so he went and he really

589
00:33:07,960 --> 00:33:11,200
Speaker 1: liked the movie Joe mentioned last week, and I felt

590
00:33:11,200 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: the same way. I was hesitant to want to go

591
00:33:13,600 --> 00:33:15,920
Speaker 1: to that because I like Bob Dylan so much and

592
00:33:15,960 --> 00:33:17,960
Speaker 1: his music matters so much to me, and I've spent

593
00:33:18,000 --> 00:33:21,120
Speaker 1: so much time listening to it, and everything just kind

594
00:33:21,120 --> 00:33:28,040
Speaker 1: of a Hollywood whatever they do in Hollywood version of

595
00:33:28,080 --> 00:33:31,640
Speaker 1: that was gonna really make me angry or so in short,

596
00:33:32,000 --> 00:33:35,600
Speaker 1: that's what they do. They ruin things. I didn't want

597
00:33:35,640 --> 00:33:37,760
Speaker 1: him to take something that I think is important and

598
00:33:37,840 --> 00:33:40,719
Speaker 1: cool and like dumb it down. They did not. They

599
00:33:40,760 --> 00:33:43,800
Speaker 1: did not dumb it down at all. Wow, which I

600
00:33:43,840 --> 00:33:45,880
Speaker 1: really enjoyed it was. It was one of those times

601
00:33:45,920 --> 00:33:48,880
Speaker 1: where you or felt like, Wow, this TV show or

602
00:33:48,920 --> 00:33:52,280
Speaker 1: movies actually treating us like smart grown ups, like not

603
00:33:52,400 --> 00:33:54,440
Speaker 1: worried about the dumb among us, the dumb among us,

604
00:33:54,560 --> 00:33:58,600
Speaker 1: you know, leave. I mean I like that. I also

605
00:33:58,720 --> 00:34:02,400
Speaker 1: like anytime you have a bio pic where they don't

606
00:34:02,640 --> 00:34:07,719
Speaker 1: make the subject always super freaking cool, and he was not.

607
00:34:07,920 --> 00:34:09,640
Speaker 1: It'd be very easy to come away from that movie

608
00:34:09,640 --> 00:34:14,000
Speaker 1: thinking he's Dylan's an a hole be very easy to

609
00:34:14,000 --> 00:34:18,279
Speaker 1: come away with that, yeh and they and they also, uh,

610
00:34:18,360 --> 00:34:20,680
Speaker 1: I think there's an advantage to just picking a couple

611
00:34:20,800 --> 00:34:23,480
Speaker 1: year segment of somebody's life and portraying it as opposed

612
00:34:23,520 --> 00:34:25,239
Speaker 1: to try to do their whole damned life. In doing

613
00:34:25,280 --> 00:34:28,760
Speaker 1: a half hours, you got to skip so much stuff,

614
00:34:28,760 --> 00:34:31,480
Speaker 1: and they just skip. Really him showing up in New

615
00:34:31,560 --> 00:34:33,880
Speaker 1: York to win. It goes electric in sixty five, It

616
00:34:34,000 --> 00:34:37,919
Speaker 1: ends in sixty five, so and that was long before

617
00:34:37,920 --> 00:34:40,279
Speaker 1: a lot of other stuff happened. Here's one interesting thing

618
00:34:40,320 --> 00:34:42,200
Speaker 1: I thought though in his portrayal of Dylan is a

619
00:34:42,239 --> 00:34:45,759
Speaker 1: guy who's watched a gazillion interviews with Dylan from back

620
00:34:45,760 --> 00:34:48,799
Speaker 1: in the day. He's got it so nailed it's incredible.

621
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,840
Speaker 1: But the one detail that I thought it was funny

622
00:34:51,880 --> 00:34:54,279
Speaker 1: that they picked up on, and it's always bothered me

623
00:34:55,040 --> 00:35:00,960
Speaker 1: Dylan's long, dirty fingernails. It's always grossed me out. Anytime

624
00:35:01,000 --> 00:35:04,000
Speaker 1: you see Dylan being interviewed and he like smokes a cigarette,

625
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:07,200
Speaker 1: which he does constantly, it's like, dude, do you ever

626
00:35:07,520 --> 00:35:12,600
Speaker 1: wash your hands? Gross his long dirty like you can

627
00:35:12,680 --> 00:35:15,880
Speaker 1: see the black dirt under his fingernails. And timothey shallowy

628
00:35:15,920 --> 00:35:18,200
Speaker 1: has long, dirty fingernails. The whole movie in which I

629
00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:23,160
Speaker 1: thought interesting little detail is it? Yeah, it really is.

630
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,320
Speaker 1: And again I mentioned last week i'd write a review.

631
00:35:26,360 --> 00:35:28,360
Speaker 1: I don't know if I'd have picked up on this otherwise,

632
00:35:28,760 --> 00:35:33,600
Speaker 1: but the idea that a young famous guy didn't go

633
00:35:33,719 --> 00:35:36,799
Speaker 1: along with the socialists with what they wanted him to

634
00:35:36,840 --> 00:35:40,720
Speaker 1: do is awesome. Ed Norton. Pete Seeger, the banjo player,

635
00:35:40,920 --> 00:35:43,440
Speaker 1: gives a speech about you know, we've got a teeter

636
00:35:43,480 --> 00:35:45,640
Speaker 1: totter and it's all waited on one side, and we're

637
00:35:45,640 --> 00:35:48,840
Speaker 1: trying to wait it so it's more balanced across the country,

638
00:35:48,880 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: and you're helping us balance out that teeter totter. And

639
00:35:51,000 --> 00:35:53,520
Speaker 1: Dylan's like, no, I'm not. I don't care about the

640
00:35:53,520 --> 00:35:57,239
Speaker 1: teeter daughter of social justice and everything. And at the

641
00:35:57,320 --> 00:35:59,160
Speaker 1: end of the movie they say Pete Seeger goes on

642
00:35:59,239 --> 00:36:01,880
Speaker 1: to live a life of fighting for social justice and

643
00:36:02,000 --> 00:36:04,880
Speaker 1: Joan Biaz goes on to donate to and I don't

644
00:36:05,080 --> 00:36:08,319
Speaker 1: know what their point was, if, like Dylan let down

645
00:36:08,360 --> 00:36:11,440
Speaker 1: the social justice world or what, but he didn't care.

646
00:36:11,480 --> 00:36:15,880
Speaker 1: I guarantee you that no. Yeah, well, okay, interesting, but

647
00:36:15,920 --> 00:36:18,440
Speaker 1: if you're Dylan fan, it's not going to creep you out. Okay,

648
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Speaker 1: I'm excited.

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Speaker 4: Now I'm gonna have to seek that out or probably

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00:36:21,920 --> 00:36:22,960
Speaker 4: wait till it's on cable.

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Speaker 1: My brother's seen it twice. He liked it so much

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Speaker 1: and he's a big dealing oh wow. If you miss

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Speaker 1: a segment, get the podcast, you should subscribe Armstrong and

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Speaker 1: Getty on demand Armstrong and Getty