1
00:00:05,600 --> 00:00:11,880
Speaker 1: This is Straight Fire with Jason McIntyre. What is up?

2
00:00:11,880 --> 00:00:15,640
Speaker 1: Straight Fire? Fan? It to me Jason McIntyre, Straight Fire

3
00:00:16,160 --> 00:00:20,960
Speaker 1: for Wednesday, August twenty four. Hope everybody is having a

4
00:00:20,960 --> 00:00:24,400
Speaker 1: fantastic week. I myself am having a glorious week. We

5
00:00:24,400 --> 00:00:27,240
Speaker 1: have a great podcast ahead. I thank you for your

6
00:00:27,320 --> 00:00:30,280
Speaker 1: d MS on the NFL betting pot on Tuesday. Yes,

7
00:00:30,320 --> 00:00:33,680
Speaker 1: the ads are starting to trickle in now for NFL

8
00:00:33,720 --> 00:00:37,559
Speaker 1: gambling season. Obviously an opportunity to get free money. And

9
00:00:37,640 --> 00:00:40,920
Speaker 1: by free money, it literally is free money. Um a

10
00:00:40,960 --> 00:00:43,400
Speaker 1: couple of notes. So I wasn't going to talk about

11
00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:45,640
Speaker 1: this before we get to Kevin Durant. I was not

12
00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:47,440
Speaker 1: going to bring this up, but a couple of my

13
00:00:47,440 --> 00:00:51,320
Speaker 1: friends nudged me that I had to discuss it. Yes,

14
00:00:51,360 --> 00:00:53,640
Speaker 1: it involves another basketball league. I mean yes, I was

15
00:00:53,680 --> 00:00:57,240
Speaker 1: in two basketball leagues briefly overlapping. We won the championship Sunday, hooray.

16
00:00:57,280 --> 00:00:59,120
Speaker 1: I talked about that. So I'm in another league that

17
00:00:59,200 --> 00:01:01,440
Speaker 1: plays Monday nights. I haven't played in all the games.

18
00:01:02,160 --> 00:01:05,000
Speaker 1: We were down our two best players on Monday. And

19
00:01:05,240 --> 00:01:07,080
Speaker 1: this will be brief. Don't worry. I know you can't

20
00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:08,760
Speaker 1: wait to hear about Kevin Durant and get to our

21
00:01:08,800 --> 00:01:12,760
Speaker 1: great guest, Seth workers Sham of VSPN. So we're down

22
00:01:12,760 --> 00:01:16,440
Speaker 1: our two best players Monday, and we're facing a team

23
00:01:16,480 --> 00:01:18,360
Speaker 1: with arguably the best player in the league. We've been

24
00:01:18,360 --> 00:01:20,560
Speaker 1: playing pick up with him at at the old Clippers

25
00:01:20,640 --> 00:01:23,760
Speaker 1: facility for a while. He's just really really good threes

26
00:01:24,080 --> 00:01:28,080
Speaker 1: inside outside. I think he played briefly in some Juco

27
00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:31,360
Speaker 1: in Florida. He's good. He's like years old and he's

28
00:01:31,400 --> 00:01:34,480
Speaker 1: just unstoppable. And then they have another buddy of a

29
00:01:34,520 --> 00:01:37,960
Speaker 1: couple of buddies on that team of mine. Anyways, I

30
00:01:38,000 --> 00:01:41,160
Speaker 1: get my first shot, three hit it and it was

31
00:01:41,200 --> 00:01:42,800
Speaker 1: just something I don't know if it was carry over

32
00:01:42,840 --> 00:01:45,480
Speaker 1: from uh the Sunday Night Championship, but the first three

33
00:01:45,520 --> 00:01:47,160
Speaker 1: win in. You know, maybe he's playing against your friends

34
00:01:47,160 --> 00:01:49,520
Speaker 1: are loose. There's no championship. This is just a regular

35
00:01:49,520 --> 00:01:52,640
Speaker 1: season game. There are playoffs down the road, hopefully we'll

36
00:01:52,640 --> 00:01:55,240
Speaker 1: make them. Anyways, my first three goes in, my second

37
00:01:55,280 --> 00:01:57,560
Speaker 1: three goes in. At this point, I'm like kind of

38
00:01:57,600 --> 00:02:01,760
Speaker 1: sort of feeling it and just keep dropping and I, folks,

39
00:02:01,800 --> 00:02:04,920
Speaker 1: I've never had a night like this in I don't know,

40
00:02:05,040 --> 00:02:09,680
Speaker 1: thirty years of playing basketball whatever it was. In the

41
00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:13,400
Speaker 1: first half, I was six of seven on threes, and

42
00:02:13,800 --> 00:02:15,400
Speaker 1: you know, we were we were in the game, obviously,

43
00:02:15,400 --> 00:02:18,560
Speaker 1: but I think we're like up by one, and I'm like, well,

44
00:02:18,800 --> 00:02:20,520
Speaker 1: there's no way we're winning this game if I'm having

45
00:02:20,560 --> 00:02:23,560
Speaker 1: the game of my life and we're only up by one.

46
00:02:24,680 --> 00:02:28,000
Speaker 1: And they put their best player, the guy who's a monster,

47
00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:29,519
Speaker 1: on me in the second half, so it was tough

48
00:02:29,560 --> 00:02:32,080
Speaker 1: to get on track, and I think I missed my

49
00:02:32,080 --> 00:02:34,800
Speaker 1: first couple and I'm like, damn it, it's over. And

50
00:02:34,840 --> 00:02:36,880
Speaker 1: then we got lucky a couple of times and I

51
00:02:36,880 --> 00:02:39,440
Speaker 1: made a couple more threes. Ended up hitting I believe

52
00:02:39,919 --> 00:02:44,560
Speaker 1: nine threes in like thirteen attempts. My friends were coord side,

53
00:02:44,639 --> 00:02:46,400
Speaker 1: you know, playing in the next game and just like

54
00:02:46,680 --> 00:02:49,560
Speaker 1: laughing their heads off because it was it felt like

55
00:02:49,560 --> 00:02:53,280
Speaker 1: an out of body experience. And I also chipped in

56
00:02:53,280 --> 00:02:55,000
Speaker 1: a layup. Yes, I had a lay up. So so

57
00:02:55,080 --> 00:02:57,920
Speaker 1: I think it was either twenty nine it might have

58
00:02:57,919 --> 00:02:59,639
Speaker 1: been ten threes. I don't know, but at bottom line,

59
00:02:59,639 --> 00:03:01,440
Speaker 1: it was a greatest game I ever played. But we

60
00:03:01,520 --> 00:03:04,360
Speaker 1: lost the game by four um in a thriller. But

61
00:03:04,400 --> 00:03:06,440
Speaker 1: the best part was my buddies. You know, I'm on

62
00:03:06,480 --> 00:03:10,519
Speaker 1: some basketball text chains for pick up. They start telling everybody, oh, yeah,

63
00:03:10,600 --> 00:03:14,440
Speaker 1: Jason gave Sharad, who who's the great player, gave him

64
00:03:14,480 --> 00:03:16,919
Speaker 1: a thirty piece and they're just hyping me up. And

65
00:03:16,960 --> 00:03:18,760
Speaker 1: I felt great. It felt awesome, and then I'm like,

66
00:03:18,800 --> 00:03:22,639
Speaker 1: but guys, we lost the game. And you know, I

67
00:03:22,960 --> 00:03:25,120
Speaker 1: came home and I was like, that was great, but

68
00:03:25,200 --> 00:03:27,239
Speaker 1: we lost and it was weird. I could not really

69
00:03:27,320 --> 00:03:29,320
Speaker 1: enjoy it. And I think that dovetails nicely into our

70
00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:31,720
Speaker 1: guest Seth Wickersham, who spent a lot of time with

71
00:03:31,840 --> 00:03:36,320
Speaker 1: McVeigh and his kind of grinder love affair with football

72
00:03:37,000 --> 00:03:39,760
Speaker 1: and how much the losses eat him up. And it

73
00:03:39,800 --> 00:03:42,240
Speaker 1: was tough for me to enjoy the greatest game I've

74
00:03:42,280 --> 00:03:44,240
Speaker 1: ever had because we lost. Now, if we had won,

75
00:03:44,520 --> 00:03:48,400
Speaker 1: oh my goodness. I thought about I omitted it from

76
00:03:48,760 --> 00:03:50,480
Speaker 1: the pod yesterday. I just didn't want to talk about

77
00:03:50,480 --> 00:03:53,400
Speaker 1: it as too soon as they say, um, but I

78
00:03:53,440 --> 00:03:54,680
Speaker 1: had a little time to think it over, and I

79
00:03:54,720 --> 00:03:57,320
Speaker 1: was like, why the hell not? At any rate, Um,

80
00:03:57,360 --> 00:04:00,760
Speaker 1: I love playing basketball. You know this alright? So quickly

81
00:04:00,880 --> 00:04:05,840
Speaker 1: on Kevin Durant staying in Brooklyn, The News broke like

82
00:04:06,000 --> 00:04:10,240
Speaker 1: right before we went on Aaron Heard on Tuesday, And

83
00:04:10,920 --> 00:04:13,320
Speaker 1: I think this one's obvious. I I didn't read a

84
00:04:13,360 --> 00:04:17,080
Speaker 1: lot of the takeaways because, um, let's just say Tuesday

85
00:04:17,120 --> 00:04:19,279
Speaker 1: was a busy day for me and the fam, and

86
00:04:19,320 --> 00:04:22,200
Speaker 1: I also played tennis, so I didn't. I haven't really

87
00:04:22,240 --> 00:04:24,839
Speaker 1: read the takes out there, but I think there's two

88
00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:29,280
Speaker 1: pretty obvious takeaways. One, the player empowerment era just hit

89
00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:32,599
Speaker 1: a brick wall finally. And Folks, I think I've talked

90
00:04:32,600 --> 00:04:35,719
Speaker 1: about on this podcast. The list of players who have

91
00:04:35,800 --> 00:04:39,360
Speaker 1: demanded a trade and got it in the last decade

92
00:04:39,520 --> 00:04:43,240
Speaker 1: is incredible. I mean, James Harden demanded out of Houston,

93
00:04:43,520 --> 00:04:46,480
Speaker 1: got it. Demanded out of Brooklyn got it. Paul George

94
00:04:46,520 --> 00:04:51,600
Speaker 1: demanded out of Indie, got it. Um Kyrie Irving demanded

95
00:04:51,600 --> 00:04:54,279
Speaker 1: out of Cleveland with years of his deal, got it.

96
00:04:54,520 --> 00:04:58,720
Speaker 1: Jimmy Butler Minnesota, got his deal. Ben Simmons, get me

97
00:04:58,760 --> 00:05:01,000
Speaker 1: out of here. They've traded him. Anthony Davis wanted out

98
00:05:01,000 --> 00:05:03,080
Speaker 1: in New Orleans. They waited a few months, but they

99
00:05:03,080 --> 00:05:04,760
Speaker 1: traded him to the Lakers. He got what he wanted.

100
00:05:05,080 --> 00:05:08,360
Speaker 1: Kawhi Leonard get me out of San Antonio, got to Toronto,

101
00:05:08,680 --> 00:05:12,200
Speaker 1: Carmelo Anthony. You guys, remember that denvery demanding I'm out

102
00:05:12,200 --> 00:05:13,880
Speaker 1: of here. I'm done. I'm done. We're not trading you,

103
00:05:13,880 --> 00:05:16,440
Speaker 1: We're not. They sent him to New York. Basically, anybody

104
00:05:16,440 --> 00:05:18,800
Speaker 1: who has demanded a trade with a year or whatever

105
00:05:18,880 --> 00:05:23,200
Speaker 1: left on their contract has gotten We just saw for

106
00:05:23,279 --> 00:05:27,320
Speaker 1: the first time a player. Now, maybe Durant got greedy

107
00:05:27,320 --> 00:05:29,400
Speaker 1: because he had four years left on his deal. And I,

108
00:05:29,560 --> 00:05:31,839
Speaker 1: as I said to Rob on this pot on, I

109
00:05:31,839 --> 00:05:36,839
Speaker 1: think it was Monday. It's almost as if Kevin Durant

110
00:05:36,880 --> 00:05:40,760
Speaker 1: can see Kyrie is going to be leaving at the

111
00:05:40,800 --> 00:05:43,040
Speaker 1: end of this year and he doesn't want to get

112
00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,919
Speaker 1: stuck left holding the bat, right, That's kind of what

113
00:05:47,040 --> 00:05:50,479
Speaker 1: it felt like. And for Kyrie and k D to

114
00:05:50,640 --> 00:05:52,640
Speaker 1: now both be staying now, Kyrie didn't have a chance.

115
00:05:52,760 --> 00:05:54,880
Speaker 1: He's not leaving all that money on the table for

116
00:05:55,000 --> 00:05:58,920
Speaker 1: Kevin Durant to stick around. You know, listen, I'm sure

117
00:05:58,920 --> 00:06:01,160
Speaker 1: he's getting lit up on social media. Oh you took

118
00:06:01,279 --> 00:06:03,880
Speaker 1: your tail between your legs and ran back, Like I

119
00:06:03,880 --> 00:06:06,560
Speaker 1: think this is ultimately a good move for Kevin Durant. Obviously,

120
00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:08,400
Speaker 1: if they win the championship, it's a great move. By

121
00:06:08,400 --> 00:06:10,560
Speaker 1: the way, their odds where as high as fifty to

122
00:06:10,680 --> 00:06:13,080
Speaker 1: one in July, they have plummeted down to I think

123
00:06:13,080 --> 00:06:17,040
Speaker 1: I saw eleven to one one. I just don't think

124
00:06:17,080 --> 00:06:20,039
Speaker 1: you can bet that because of the Kyrie Irving factor. Like,

125
00:06:20,160 --> 00:06:22,520
Speaker 1: not to pivot off KD, but really, Kyrie Irving, I

126
00:06:22,560 --> 00:06:25,760
Speaker 1: ask you, which one are we gonna see? The one

127
00:06:25,800 --> 00:06:28,040
Speaker 1: who really really wants to get that long term deal

128
00:06:28,080 --> 00:06:30,280
Speaker 1: from somebody, So he plays as many games as he can.

129
00:06:30,440 --> 00:06:32,800
Speaker 1: He's a good soldier for nine months, he falls in

130
00:06:32,920 --> 00:06:35,680
Speaker 1: line and it works out and he gets a big

131
00:06:35,680 --> 00:06:38,520
Speaker 1: deal from somebody. Can Kyrie stick that for nine months?

132
00:06:38,760 --> 00:06:42,560
Speaker 1: I don't think he's capable of that. I don't. If

133
00:06:42,600 --> 00:06:46,200
Speaker 1: you believe he is, go for it. Bet the nets

134
00:06:46,200 --> 00:06:47,719
Speaker 1: to win the title. Obviously, if you bet him at

135
00:06:47,720 --> 00:06:49,520
Speaker 1: fifty to one year in great shape, that's a great

136
00:06:49,520 --> 00:06:51,920
Speaker 1: ticket to have. I don't think many people did because

137
00:06:51,920 --> 00:06:56,040
Speaker 1: everybody thought KD was done. But this idea that Kyrie

138
00:06:56,040 --> 00:06:58,680
Speaker 1: Irving is gonna be a model citizen after basically three

139
00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,440
Speaker 1: years of yish good luck. I also want to point

140
00:07:02,440 --> 00:07:06,279
Speaker 1: out the last time Kyrie Irving played double digit games

141
00:07:06,360 --> 00:07:11,800
Speaker 1: in the playoffs was twenty seventeen. He's always hurt, so

142
00:07:11,920 --> 00:07:13,760
Speaker 1: I don't think that. I mean, listen, and that's talent

143
00:07:13,800 --> 00:07:16,600
Speaker 1: wise have it. But health is obviously the biggest factor.

144
00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:19,400
Speaker 1: Ben Simmons hasn't played in over a year. Like, there's

145
00:07:19,400 --> 00:07:21,520
Speaker 1: just so many questions. I can't bet the next to

146
00:07:21,600 --> 00:07:23,880
Speaker 1: win the title. But I am happy for Kevin Dury.

147
00:07:23,880 --> 00:07:26,000
Speaker 1: I think it was a smart move and I just

148
00:07:26,240 --> 00:07:29,960
Speaker 1: I'll toss before we get to seth Um, it's funny.

149
00:07:30,080 --> 00:07:33,480
Speaker 1: So Fox will put together well, I heart Rob. You

150
00:07:33,520 --> 00:07:37,240
Speaker 1: know Fox Sports Radio, they will put together clips of

151
00:07:37,480 --> 00:07:42,240
Speaker 1: stuff we say on the podcast. And you know, if

152
00:07:42,240 --> 00:07:45,280
Speaker 1: you talk about a certain athlete, it really hits and

153
00:07:45,320 --> 00:07:49,680
Speaker 1: does extremely well. Um. Tom Brady tends to do well.

154
00:07:50,800 --> 00:07:54,760
Speaker 1: Dallas Cowboys as a team tend to do well in

155
00:07:54,800 --> 00:07:58,280
Speaker 1: the NBA. Steph Curry and Lebron tend to do well.

156
00:07:58,400 --> 00:08:03,120
Speaker 1: But without ill, Kevin Durant is right there on their heels.

157
00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,800
Speaker 1: Anything you say about him, people want to click because

158
00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:10,560
Speaker 1: there is passion. Usually hate and dislike, which I think

159
00:08:10,640 --> 00:08:14,000
Speaker 1: is kind of wrong, but people are passionate about Kevin Durant.

160
00:08:14,120 --> 00:08:16,680
Speaker 1: Say what you will about him, but they will click.

161
00:08:16,920 --> 00:08:19,360
Speaker 1: So in that aspect, and Durant does not like that,

162
00:08:19,440 --> 00:08:22,560
Speaker 1: but you could then argue, well, wait a minute, Katie,

163
00:08:22,600 --> 00:08:25,000
Speaker 1: you may hate that, but haven't you brought this on yourself?

164
00:08:25,800 --> 00:08:29,840
Speaker 1: Isn't this your doing? I mean, I get I personally

165
00:08:29,880 --> 00:08:33,400
Speaker 1: have no issues with leaving Okay see, but leaving Golden

166
00:08:33,440 --> 00:08:35,440
Speaker 1: State for Brooklyn then demanding a trade, I think that

167
00:08:35,640 --> 00:08:39,520
Speaker 1: is just absolutely batshit crazy. But that's just me at

168
00:08:39,559 --> 00:08:43,000
Speaker 1: any rate. Our guest today, Seth Wickersham, listen if you

169
00:08:43,040 --> 00:08:46,240
Speaker 1: are a don't like the Patriots and you um love

170
00:08:46,320 --> 00:08:49,199
Speaker 1: listening to Patriots cheating stories and how they got busted

171
00:08:49,280 --> 00:08:52,320
Speaker 1: and maybe Belichick could kind of sort of overrated because

172
00:08:52,320 --> 00:08:55,600
Speaker 1: he cheated a lot, and um also positive stuff for McVeigh.

173
00:08:55,640 --> 00:09:00,880
Speaker 1: You're gonna love this interview Seth Wickersham of ESPN. Fox

174
00:09:00,920 --> 00:09:04,000
Speaker 1: Sports Radio has the best sports talk lineup in the nation.

175
00:09:04,320 --> 00:09:07,280
Speaker 1: Catch all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot

176
00:09:07,280 --> 00:09:10,280
Speaker 1: com and within the I Heart Radio app search f

177
00:09:10,640 --> 00:09:16,560
Speaker 1: s R to listen live. Jason likes to think he

178
00:09:16,600 --> 00:09:19,720
Speaker 1: knows everything when it comes to sports. I know what

179
00:09:19,840 --> 00:09:23,199
Speaker 1: sports dance want, but for everything he doesn't, he knows

180
00:09:23,240 --> 00:09:26,080
Speaker 1: a guy who does. Let's just say I know a

181
00:09:26,120 --> 00:09:29,920
Speaker 1: guy who knows a guy who knows another guy. All right,

182
00:09:29,960 --> 00:09:32,480
Speaker 1: let's welcome into straight Fire. A guy you know well,

183
00:09:32,640 --> 00:09:37,680
Speaker 1: he's probably the pre eminent features sportswriter today. Uh, he's

184
00:09:37,679 --> 00:09:40,360
Speaker 1: at ESPN. He's been there for forever. You know him.

185
00:09:40,360 --> 00:09:43,160
Speaker 1: He's been on the podcast before. Seth Wickersham, Seth, how

186
00:09:43,160 --> 00:09:46,120
Speaker 1: are you man? Hey? Great, that's too kind. But I

187
00:09:46,160 --> 00:09:47,680
Speaker 1: don't know if I agree with it, but I appreciate.

188
00:09:47,679 --> 00:09:49,920
Speaker 1: Come on, dude, that listen. That your job. I think

189
00:09:49,960 --> 00:09:51,560
Speaker 1: we talked about it last time. Not a lot of

190
00:09:51,960 --> 00:09:54,959
Speaker 1: employers are doing the take out pieces anymore, and you've

191
00:09:54,960 --> 00:09:57,000
Speaker 1: got one of the most coveted jobs in sports. Dude.

192
00:09:57,000 --> 00:10:00,560
Speaker 1: You you spent months researching and then you inner you guys,

193
00:10:00,600 --> 00:10:04,240
Speaker 1: and you're doing like what five six stories a year? Maybe? Yeah,

194
00:10:04,320 --> 00:10:06,439
Speaker 1: it just depends, like you know, there's no quota. It's

195
00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:09,560
Speaker 1: kind of like when the stories are ready. But um, yeah,

196
00:10:09,640 --> 00:10:11,360
Speaker 1: you're right. I mean, the jobs are harder to get

197
00:10:11,360 --> 00:10:13,240
Speaker 1: than they are to do, that's for sure. And it's

198
00:10:13,280 --> 00:10:16,840
Speaker 1: it's a it's definitely a good gig. And your latest

199
00:10:16,880 --> 00:10:20,200
Speaker 1: story came out. I was on vacation and um, somebody

200
00:10:20,200 --> 00:10:23,360
Speaker 1: texted to you gotta read this and it was on McVeigh.

201
00:10:23,440 --> 00:10:26,319
Speaker 1: You spend all this time with him, and obviously the

202
00:10:26,360 --> 00:10:29,920
Speaker 1: story was tremendous based on reading it, I even like

203
00:10:30,080 --> 00:10:33,199
Speaker 1: McVeigh more. Now, I'm curious when you heard from people

204
00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:35,440
Speaker 1: when the story dropped, did they give that vibe like, man,

205
00:10:35,480 --> 00:10:38,360
Speaker 1: he's really likable, because he's a lot like me. Um.

206
00:10:38,720 --> 00:10:41,400
Speaker 1: I'm not saying I'm one of the most successful coaches

207
00:10:41,480 --> 00:10:44,240
Speaker 1: or or could be, but just the grinder that he is,

208
00:10:44,720 --> 00:10:47,880
Speaker 1: it's just it's really an admirable quality. Yeah, I think

209
00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:51,840
Speaker 1: that people related to Sean mcveigh's torment. And you know,

210
00:10:51,920 --> 00:10:55,160
Speaker 1: as you remember at the Super Bowl, all of a sudden,

211
00:10:55,200 --> 00:10:58,160
Speaker 1: these reports came up, and they were accurate reports that

212
00:10:58,480 --> 00:11:01,040
Speaker 1: you know, he was going to get wood by broadcasters,

213
00:11:01,280 --> 00:11:03,920
Speaker 1: and you know, before the game he really didn't do

214
00:11:04,040 --> 00:11:06,680
Speaker 1: much to shoot it down either. And I think that,

215
00:11:06,760 --> 00:11:08,480
Speaker 1: like the word on the street was that he had

216
00:11:08,520 --> 00:11:12,040
Speaker 1: burned himself out at age thirty six, and I saw

217
00:11:12,120 --> 00:11:15,200
Speaker 1: someone who I just felt was so publicly at war

218
00:11:15,360 --> 00:11:16,840
Speaker 1: with what it is that they were trying to do.

219
00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:20,280
Speaker 1: When I visited him, um every month from from April

220
00:11:20,320 --> 00:11:25,000
Speaker 1: long during the off season, and we just talked about that.

221
00:11:25,160 --> 00:11:30,920
Speaker 1: We talked about that torment of being addicted to a job,

222
00:11:31,720 --> 00:11:37,240
Speaker 1: that has so many unbelievably cool qualities to it um

223
00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,600
Speaker 1: and also so many lonely, haunting ones. And he really

224
00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:44,400
Speaker 1: took me through how he navigated it, how he's navigated

225
00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:47,560
Speaker 1: it over the years. And you know, he calls it

226
00:11:47,600 --> 00:11:50,840
Speaker 1: a mental mind. F that's what that's his word. But

227
00:11:51,160 --> 00:11:53,160
Speaker 1: at one point it was interesting because he was talking

228
00:11:53,160 --> 00:11:55,760
Speaker 1: about he was like, you know, then it's weird, you know,

229
00:11:55,880 --> 00:11:58,320
Speaker 1: you missed the pain. You know you need that pain.

230
00:11:58,360 --> 00:12:00,880
Speaker 1: And I thought that was so fascinating. It reminded me

231
00:12:00,920 --> 00:12:02,240
Speaker 1: a little bit of that movie. I don't know if

232
00:12:02,240 --> 00:12:05,040
Speaker 1: inter of your listeners will remember, but Swingers. And then

233
00:12:06,360 --> 00:12:07,640
Speaker 1: of course, you know at the end of the movie

234
00:12:07,679 --> 00:12:09,760
Speaker 1: they're they're like you, they're talking about heartbreak, and they're like,

235
00:12:09,760 --> 00:12:11,280
Speaker 1: you know, but then you kind of, you know, you

236
00:12:11,360 --> 00:12:14,680
Speaker 1: missed that pain. I remember I thought of that when

237
00:12:14,720 --> 00:12:16,640
Speaker 1: Sean said that, the fact that, like, you know, you

238
00:12:16,720 --> 00:12:18,960
Speaker 1: kind of get addicted to the pain and you need it.

239
00:12:19,520 --> 00:12:22,120
Speaker 1: And so that's why he knew that, Like he was

240
00:12:22,880 --> 00:12:26,319
Speaker 1: in a job that you know, he might have to

241
00:12:26,360 --> 00:12:28,080
Speaker 1: do for the next two years or maybe the next

242
00:12:28,120 --> 00:12:31,520
Speaker 1: thirty two. Yeah, he he comes off as a kind

243
00:12:31,559 --> 00:12:33,560
Speaker 1: of guy who you know, like like your story said,

244
00:12:33,559 --> 00:12:35,520
Speaker 1: he's waking up at three thirty four in the morning.

245
00:12:35,760 --> 00:12:38,080
Speaker 1: The one thing I didn't get from the early wake ups,

246
00:12:38,120 --> 00:12:40,600
Speaker 1: Like I know, I I have sleepless nights all the time,

247
00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:41,960
Speaker 1: and then I wake up. I look at the clock,

248
00:12:42,000 --> 00:12:43,800
Speaker 1: it's four, and like I could wake up and get

249
00:12:43,800 --> 00:12:46,400
Speaker 1: in a quick workout and then start reading, but I'm like, no,

250
00:12:46,600 --> 00:12:49,040
Speaker 1: I need to sleep. Here's what I don't get When

251
00:12:49,040 --> 00:12:51,800
Speaker 1: these coaches are going into office at four am, are

252
00:12:51,800 --> 00:12:55,080
Speaker 1: they really watching film by themselves? I know that he

253
00:12:55,160 --> 00:12:58,920
Speaker 1: kept referencing like two probably breakdowns to do, Like he's

254
00:12:58,960 --> 00:13:01,040
Speaker 1: sitting there really just doing that for hours on end

255
00:13:01,040 --> 00:13:04,840
Speaker 1: as a head coach. Yeah, well, so it's interesting with Sean.

256
00:13:04,960 --> 00:13:07,280
Speaker 1: He tries to keep East Coast hours, so he goes

257
00:13:07,360 --> 00:13:09,880
Speaker 1: to bed early, but he also wakes up early. And

258
00:13:09,920 --> 00:13:12,760
Speaker 1: I think that a lot of coaches though, you know,

259
00:13:12,840 --> 00:13:15,839
Speaker 1: it's just it's just bizarre. Like if you know these

260
00:13:15,840 --> 00:13:18,000
Speaker 1: coaches talk about how they're at the office eighteen nineteen

261
00:13:18,000 --> 00:13:21,240
Speaker 1: twenty hours a day. Sometimes like if you were in

262
00:13:21,280 --> 00:13:24,199
Speaker 1: any other field and it was taking you eighteen nineteen

263
00:13:24,200 --> 00:13:27,040
Speaker 1: twenty hours a day, your your job done, they think

264
00:13:27,080 --> 00:13:30,920
Speaker 1: you're completely incompetent. Whereas in this it's is glorified. And

265
00:13:30,960 --> 00:13:34,680
Speaker 1: I think that with Sean, I think he feels like

266
00:13:34,720 --> 00:13:36,800
Speaker 1: he works best in the morning, so he gets up

267
00:13:36,920 --> 00:13:40,559
Speaker 1: uber early and it's usually around three forty five. Sometimes

268
00:13:40,559 --> 00:13:42,960
Speaker 1: it's like two thirty. But he doesn't stay at the

269
00:13:43,040 --> 00:13:45,880
Speaker 1: office late, except for on certain nights of the week

270
00:13:45,880 --> 00:13:48,640
Speaker 1: when it's like game planning nights or whatever. He does

271
00:13:48,720 --> 00:13:51,320
Speaker 1: try to average seven eight hours a night a week

272
00:13:51,800 --> 00:13:54,040
Speaker 1: using this kind of methodology that he heard about on

273
00:13:54,080 --> 00:13:57,640
Speaker 1: a podcast, where you average nights out, you know, you

274
00:13:57,679 --> 00:13:59,240
Speaker 1: average it out over the course of the week. Now,

275
00:13:59,280 --> 00:14:03,640
Speaker 1: I don't know how six sessible that is. That sounds

276
00:14:02,559 --> 00:14:06,400
Speaker 1: like a lot of coaches are sometimes just at the

277
00:14:06,480 --> 00:14:09,880
Speaker 1: office because everybody's at the office and they're on the

278
00:14:09,880 --> 00:14:12,400
Speaker 1: phone with their friends or they're talking to reporters or

279
00:14:12,400 --> 00:14:16,319
Speaker 1: whatever it is. Um So, you know, I do think

280
00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:22,480
Speaker 1: that like the glorification of the work sometimes gets sent

281
00:14:22,560 --> 00:14:24,880
Speaker 1: to an extreme. But when you have but when you're Sean,

282
00:14:26,080 --> 00:14:28,920
Speaker 1: you know that his process has worked for him, and

283
00:14:28,960 --> 00:14:31,600
Speaker 1: it's almost ruined him and destroyed him in the process,

284
00:14:31,640 --> 00:14:34,280
Speaker 1: but it has worked for him because you know, he's

285
00:14:34,360 --> 00:14:36,200
Speaker 1: he's never had a losing season. He's never had a

286
00:14:36,280 --> 00:14:39,680
Speaker 1: day under five. And I think that as he as

287
00:14:39,720 --> 00:14:43,360
Speaker 1: he works, as he learns more about football and more

288
00:14:43,360 --> 00:14:45,720
Speaker 1: about how to be a really really good head coach

289
00:14:46,080 --> 00:14:47,720
Speaker 1: who was a chance to be one of the greats,

290
00:14:48,000 --> 00:14:51,400
Speaker 1: he realizes that there's just more to do. Yeah, it's interesting,

291
00:14:51,840 --> 00:14:54,480
Speaker 1: and you know, they're Super Bowl champs obviously, and the

292
00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:56,680
Speaker 1: Monkey's Office back and all that stuff. But you know,

293
00:14:56,720 --> 00:15:00,600
Speaker 1: set the margin was so thin for them. Um, their

294
00:15:00,720 --> 00:15:04,160
Speaker 1: last three playoff wins were by three points each. It's

295
00:15:04,200 --> 00:15:06,160
Speaker 1: not like when you think of the Rams way they

296
00:15:06,160 --> 00:15:08,800
Speaker 1: won the Super Bowl, they weren't like an utterly dominant team, right,

297
00:15:09,040 --> 00:15:12,720
Speaker 1: I think they were seven and four. Maybe they went

298
00:15:12,720 --> 00:15:14,960
Speaker 1: through some tough stretches. I think it was November. You

299
00:15:14,960 --> 00:15:17,320
Speaker 1: said they lost every game, and so I don't know

300
00:15:17,360 --> 00:15:19,280
Speaker 1: that I consider them a dominant team the way the

301
00:15:19,360 --> 00:15:23,400
Speaker 1: Chiefs have been dominant, the Patriots, even the Buccaneers um

302
00:15:23,440 --> 00:15:26,280
Speaker 1: to an extent, were dominant in the Super Bowl against

303
00:15:26,480 --> 00:15:29,320
Speaker 1: Kansas City. Well, that's the thing. It's just that, like

304
00:15:29,760 --> 00:15:32,120
Speaker 1: you know, the largen is so thin in the NFL.

305
00:15:32,120 --> 00:15:33,640
Speaker 1: It's all we talk about. And that's one of the

306
00:15:33,680 --> 00:15:36,720
Speaker 1: reasons why, you know, the more work you do, the

307
00:15:36,760 --> 00:15:40,720
Speaker 1: more it creates, and that's how these guys become tormented workaholics,

308
00:15:40,840 --> 00:15:43,440
Speaker 1: you know, and it's hard for Sean, you know, he's

309
00:15:43,440 --> 00:15:47,000
Speaker 1: not one of those guys who has the competitive stamina

310
00:15:47,560 --> 00:15:50,880
Speaker 1: like Bill Belichick to watch film for so many hours

311
00:15:50,920 --> 00:15:53,800
Speaker 1: on end. You know, people are always texting or calling,

312
00:15:53,880 --> 00:15:56,200
Speaker 1: and then you know, you get as you answer emails

313
00:15:56,200 --> 00:15:59,560
Speaker 1: and you answer text it just creates more. And he's

314
00:15:59,600 --> 00:16:02,880
Speaker 1: the blow and people are stopping by his office. He

315
00:16:02,880 --> 00:16:04,800
Speaker 1: he has to figure out ways to kind of get

316
00:16:04,880 --> 00:16:08,560
Speaker 1: himself reset so that when he watches film he's completely

317
00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:12,360
Speaker 1: you know, locked in. He talked about how he used

318
00:16:12,360 --> 00:16:14,640
Speaker 1: to go to the sauna, but then he realized you

319
00:16:14,640 --> 00:16:16,160
Speaker 1: could just bring the phone in the sauna and it

320
00:16:16,200 --> 00:16:19,280
Speaker 1: works there. So then he started going to the steam room,

321
00:16:19,880 --> 00:16:22,160
Speaker 1: where his phone didn't work as well, not that he

322
00:16:22,160 --> 00:16:25,040
Speaker 1: didn't try. So it's just kind of funny, you know

323
00:16:25,120 --> 00:16:29,040
Speaker 1: that that that you know it is it does go

324
00:16:29,120 --> 00:16:31,400
Speaker 1: back to that thin margin that you talk about and

325
00:16:31,440 --> 00:16:36,440
Speaker 1: how these guys have to approach the job the way

326
00:16:36,480 --> 00:16:40,960
Speaker 1: that they do because at its heart, football is a

327
00:16:41,080 --> 00:16:43,840
Speaker 1: creative profession and really we don't think about it that way,

328
00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,280
Speaker 1: but it kind of is. And with any creative profession,

329
00:16:46,320 --> 00:16:48,280
Speaker 1: the possibilities are endless, which is a good thing and

330
00:16:48,320 --> 00:16:51,600
Speaker 1: a bad thing because it's all dependent on you to

331
00:16:51,680 --> 00:16:54,200
Speaker 1: try to think of the answers two questions that a

332
00:16:54,240 --> 00:16:57,360
Speaker 1: lot of people are trying to solve. Fox Sports Radio

333
00:16:57,440 --> 00:17:00,280
Speaker 1: has the best sports talk lineup in the nation. Catch

334
00:17:00,360 --> 00:17:03,680
Speaker 1: all of our shows at Fox sports Radio dot com

335
00:17:03,720 --> 00:17:06,359
Speaker 1: and within the I Heart Radio app search f s

336
00:17:06,520 --> 00:17:09,639
Speaker 1: R to listen live. He did mention golf kind of

337
00:17:09,680 --> 00:17:13,240
Speaker 1: in passing, and I didn't realize it, but he apparently

338
00:17:13,280 --> 00:17:16,000
Speaker 1: was so hard on golf. He feels like he broke him.

339
00:17:16,119 --> 00:17:20,600
Speaker 1: Um that that to me was odd. Maybe could you

340
00:17:20,600 --> 00:17:22,879
Speaker 1: elaborate on that, because like golf seem they seemed to

341
00:17:22,920 --> 00:17:25,320
Speaker 1: be doing fine, but they clearly had reached the ceiling.

342
00:17:25,760 --> 00:17:28,119
Speaker 1: And I didn't know that he wrote him so hard

343
00:17:28,160 --> 00:17:31,640
Speaker 1: that maybe golf regressed because of mcveigh's coaching. Well, as

344
00:17:31,640 --> 00:17:34,240
Speaker 1: Sean said, you know, he said he thought he lost

345
00:17:34,280 --> 00:17:38,160
Speaker 1: his humanity a bit, especially after the Super Bowl loss

346
00:17:38,200 --> 00:17:40,600
Speaker 1: to New England. And I think that he as he

347
00:17:40,680 --> 00:17:43,439
Speaker 1: started to realize that there was a ceiling on golf.

348
00:17:43,480 --> 00:17:46,840
Speaker 1: Even though he liked Jared personally a lot, he was

349
00:17:46,880 --> 00:17:49,479
Speaker 1: trying to get him the most out of him as

350
00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:52,080
Speaker 1: a player, and he coached him harder than maybe he

351
00:17:52,160 --> 00:17:53,760
Speaker 1: needed to be. The way that Sean put it to

352
00:17:53,800 --> 00:17:56,879
Speaker 1: me was that it was the right intent, but the

353
00:17:56,960 --> 00:18:00,520
Speaker 1: execution was poor. And you know, I don't know if

354
00:18:00,520 --> 00:18:02,320
Speaker 1: that would have changed anything at the end of the day,

355
00:18:02,320 --> 00:18:06,280
Speaker 1: but I think that Sean felt that, Um, you know,

356
00:18:06,320 --> 00:18:09,040
Speaker 1: looking back on it, he wishes that he hadn't coached

357
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:11,639
Speaker 1: Jared so hard because he feels like that maybe he

358
00:18:11,680 --> 00:18:14,520
Speaker 1: was so hard on him that it helped ruin his confidence,

359
00:18:15,080 --> 00:18:18,280
Speaker 1: you know, going forward as they tried to take the

360
00:18:18,320 --> 00:18:20,160
Speaker 1: next step as a team that year. Remember they made

361
00:18:20,160 --> 00:18:23,080
Speaker 1: it to the playoffs with Jared, but you know they

362
00:18:23,080 --> 00:18:26,159
Speaker 1: had they had they had plateaued. Yeah, clearly. Um. The

363
00:18:26,520 --> 00:18:30,359
Speaker 1: last McVeigh before we get to Belichick here, Um, I

364
00:18:30,359 --> 00:18:34,439
Speaker 1: think mcveigh's thirty six is he Uh. It strikes me

365
00:18:34,480 --> 00:18:37,560
Speaker 1: as extremely odd that he already has a coaching tree

366
00:18:37,560 --> 00:18:40,720
Speaker 1: at thirty six. I mean, Bill Walsh, Belichick, they did

367
00:18:40,760 --> 00:18:42,560
Speaker 1: not have this at thirty six, right, Andy Reid, that

368
00:18:42,600 --> 00:18:45,719
Speaker 1: did not exist at this age, right. It's amazing. It's

369
00:18:45,760 --> 00:18:48,520
Speaker 1: like people want all these teams want their own Sean

370
00:18:48,600 --> 00:18:53,040
Speaker 1: mcveigh's and yeah, four head coach is strong and you know,

371
00:18:53,040 --> 00:18:55,159
Speaker 1: I mean Brandon Stay last year had what four or

372
00:18:55,160 --> 00:18:59,040
Speaker 1: five teams buying for him. I mean, it's so interesting

373
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,679
Speaker 1: how whatever it is the Rams are doing and the

374
00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:07,080
Speaker 1: culture that McVeigh has helped create there, that's the new

375
00:19:07,160 --> 00:19:10,160
Speaker 1: thing that NFL teams, you know, maybe like also forty Niners,

376
00:19:10,160 --> 00:19:13,480
Speaker 1: obviously New England, but the Sean McVeigh coaching tree is

377
00:19:13,560 --> 00:19:16,960
Speaker 1: really the thing that like owners around the league want

378
00:19:16,960 --> 00:19:20,560
Speaker 1: to tap into. Um. It's a very interesting culture he's

379
00:19:20,600 --> 00:19:23,760
Speaker 1: got there because he studies every coach. I mean, he

380
00:19:23,840 --> 00:19:27,440
Speaker 1: does not take breaks when he's on vacation. He's thinking

381
00:19:27,480 --> 00:19:30,359
Speaker 1: about the game. He's reading coaching or leadership books. I

382
00:19:30,400 --> 00:19:33,280
Speaker 1: mean this is he doesn't really have an off switch,

383
00:19:33,480 --> 00:19:37,600
Speaker 1: and he studied every type of way you can coach

384
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:39,040
Speaker 1: a team. And I think that one of the things

385
00:19:39,080 --> 00:19:43,000
Speaker 1: that he's tried to do is to achieve excellence but

386
00:19:43,080 --> 00:19:45,840
Speaker 1: have people have their personality and have a lot of

387
00:19:45,880 --> 00:19:48,560
Speaker 1: fun when they're doing it. And it worked last year,

388
00:19:48,640 --> 00:19:50,760
Speaker 1: well work going forward. Who knows. As you said, the

389
00:19:50,800 --> 00:19:54,120
Speaker 1: margin is small and it will continue to be small. UM.

390
00:19:54,400 --> 00:19:56,720
Speaker 1: So I want to quickly pivot to Belichick and I

391
00:19:56,760 --> 00:19:59,760
Speaker 1: know he's it's a weird situation for the Patriots now,

392
00:19:59,760 --> 00:20:02,919
Speaker 1: which we can talk about. But the real reason that

393
00:20:03,040 --> 00:20:04,960
Speaker 1: it came up, so you wrote a story back in

394
00:20:06,080 --> 00:20:10,600
Speaker 1: with um Don van Natta spygate to deflate gate inside

395
00:20:10,600 --> 00:20:12,840
Speaker 1: what split the NFL and the Patriots apart. Now. I

396
00:20:12,880 --> 00:20:14,400
Speaker 1: know people are like, why you bring up the story

397
00:20:14,440 --> 00:20:19,480
Speaker 1: that's seven years old, But someone has brought to my

398
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:24,600
Speaker 1: attention that, hey, Jason, you know, look at all of

399
00:20:24,680 --> 00:20:28,480
Speaker 1: Belichick's former coaches. None of them have been successful. And

400
00:20:28,480 --> 00:20:31,240
Speaker 1: I do work occasionally with one of Fox, Eric Mangini.

401
00:20:32,080 --> 00:20:34,520
Speaker 1: I'm a little nervous to bring up a topic like

402
00:20:34,560 --> 00:20:36,719
Speaker 1: this to him. He's super cool. I don't know how

403
00:20:36,720 --> 00:20:39,720
Speaker 1: to broach this topic, Um, because apparently him and Belichick

404
00:20:39,760 --> 00:20:42,399
Speaker 1: do not get along anymore. But this story that you wrote,

405
00:20:43,119 --> 00:20:46,520
Speaker 1: and again it is seven years old, Seth, it really

406
00:20:46,600 --> 00:20:49,080
Speaker 1: paints the picture that part of the reason for the

407
00:20:49,080 --> 00:20:54,600
Speaker 1: Patriots success was because of this videotaping signals of the opponents.

408
00:20:54,760 --> 00:20:57,680
Speaker 1: And when you start stacking up any coach that leaves

409
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:00,280
Speaker 1: Bill and goes to coach does not have any excess

410
00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:04,119
Speaker 1: anywhere else. It just makes you kind of wonder. As

411
00:21:04,160 --> 00:21:07,280
Speaker 1: Belichick is down into his seventies, doesn't have a playoff

412
00:21:07,280 --> 00:21:09,400
Speaker 1: win since Brady left. Brady did win a Super Bowl

413
00:21:09,440 --> 00:21:13,119
Speaker 1: in Tampa. I'm just curious where you are on Belichick

414
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:16,280
Speaker 1: and his kind of history as he I don't know

415
00:21:16,280 --> 00:21:18,680
Speaker 1: how close he used to retirement, but he's certainly getting

416
00:21:18,720 --> 00:21:21,320
Speaker 1: near the end. Yeah. And you know, and I wrote

417
00:21:21,320 --> 00:21:23,280
Speaker 1: a book about the Patriots, which happens to be out

418
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:28,119
Speaker 1: on paperback August. I think that the most interesting thing

419
00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:30,479
Speaker 1: about spy Gate is obviously they did it for a reason,

420
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:33,439
Speaker 1: and they were warned three times to stop doing it.

421
00:21:33,480 --> 00:21:37,600
Speaker 1: They kept doing it, and clearly they've won since then.

422
00:21:37,960 --> 00:21:40,840
Speaker 1: But it goes it goes back to that margin of

423
00:21:40,920 --> 00:21:42,840
Speaker 1: error that you were talking about. I mean, the Patriots

424
00:21:42,880 --> 00:21:46,679
Speaker 1: won three Super Bowls um at the turn of the

425
00:21:46,720 --> 00:21:49,720
Speaker 1: century by a total of nine points. I believe. I

426
00:21:49,720 --> 00:21:52,680
Speaker 1: think each one of them were three point games, even

427
00:21:52,680 --> 00:21:54,600
Speaker 1: though the one against the Eagles, you know it should

428
00:21:54,600 --> 00:21:56,680
Speaker 1: have been. The Eagles kind of got a garbage time

429
00:21:56,720 --> 00:22:00,520
Speaker 1: touchdown to make it a little bit closer. But Elicheck,

430
00:22:01,080 --> 00:22:03,800
Speaker 1: it goes back to you never know how the game

431
00:22:03,920 --> 00:22:07,080
Speaker 1: is going to go, and you will always be looking

432
00:22:07,119 --> 00:22:10,439
Speaker 1: for these edges, especially if it's in the gray area

433
00:22:10,680 --> 00:22:14,240
Speaker 1: or even if you're crossing a line to mix metaphors. Um,

434
00:22:15,480 --> 00:22:18,080
Speaker 1: you know, that's just the way that they're wiring, especially

435
00:22:18,119 --> 00:22:21,119
Speaker 1: the way that Belichick at the beginning of his career was.

436
00:22:21,600 --> 00:22:24,119
Speaker 1: You know, I think that he just didn't He didn't

437
00:22:24,119 --> 00:22:27,600
Speaker 1: look at this like a rule violation. That was always

438
00:22:27,600 --> 00:22:30,119
Speaker 1: his excuse. And yet and wait, hold one, when you

439
00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:35,480
Speaker 1: say this, you mean having members of the Patriots videotaped

440
00:22:35,680 --> 00:22:40,320
Speaker 1: strictly the other team signals that that's the other thing,

441
00:22:40,440 --> 00:22:44,080
Speaker 1: that is the big one. They were literally it wasn't

442
00:22:44,119 --> 00:22:46,399
Speaker 1: a rules violation. You know, I was going by this

443
00:22:46,480 --> 00:22:50,639
Speaker 1: by law. You know, the Patriots videographers were in disguise.

444
00:22:51,040 --> 00:22:53,720
Speaker 1: They had their media credential covered up by tape often.

445
00:22:54,359 --> 00:22:59,880
Speaker 1: And um, only Bill Belichick and really Ernie Adams, who

446
00:22:59,920 --> 00:23:01,760
Speaker 1: was his right hand man for so long, will know

447
00:23:01,880 --> 00:23:04,760
Speaker 1: how much that impacted games. You just they will. There

448
00:23:04,800 --> 00:23:08,399
Speaker 1: will be the only people who really know. But that's said,

449
00:23:09,359 --> 00:23:13,120
Speaker 1: I think Belichick has proven himself, um, you know, as

450
00:23:13,200 --> 00:23:16,040
Speaker 1: as the greatest head coach in modern football history. Even

451
00:23:16,119 --> 00:23:18,800
Speaker 1: with that, and even though they haven't won a playoff

452
00:23:18,840 --> 00:23:22,159
Speaker 1: games since Brady left, As you said, UM, I actually

453
00:23:22,240 --> 00:23:26,280
Speaker 1: look at the decision to let Brady move on as

454
00:23:26,320 --> 00:23:29,960
Speaker 1: almost a bigger indictment on Bill Belichick and Robert Kraft

455
00:23:30,040 --> 00:23:31,399
Speaker 1: than I do the fact that they didn't win a

456
00:23:31,400 --> 00:23:36,960
Speaker 1: playoff game since he's left, Because look, the NFL is

457
00:23:37,040 --> 00:23:40,040
Speaker 1: just hard to consistently win out. You're gonna have down years,

458
00:23:40,040 --> 00:23:42,840
Speaker 1: You're gonna have bad games. It happened to them, and

459
00:23:42,880 --> 00:23:45,000
Speaker 1: even their down year, it was still seven and nine

460
00:23:45,440 --> 00:23:48,320
Speaker 1: during the COVID year. But the fact that that Bill

461
00:23:48,359 --> 00:23:51,959
Speaker 1: Belichick and Robert Craft, two people more than anybody on

462
00:23:52,000 --> 00:23:54,640
Speaker 1: this earth who should have known better than to let

463
00:23:54,640 --> 00:23:58,280
Speaker 1: Tom Brady leave, let him do just that. The two

464
00:23:58,280 --> 00:24:00,800
Speaker 1: people who should have known better than anybody else to

465
00:24:00,960 --> 00:24:04,840
Speaker 1: not underestimate Tom Brady did just that. And so I

466
00:24:04,840 --> 00:24:08,680
Speaker 1: think that that personnel decision I think, um, even though

467
00:24:08,920 --> 00:24:11,640
Speaker 1: the Patriots are are in a strong place right now,

468
00:24:12,520 --> 00:24:15,399
Speaker 1: I think that that decision I almost look at as

469
00:24:15,680 --> 00:24:18,560
Speaker 1: a bigger mark on Belichick's coaching career than I do

470
00:24:18,640 --> 00:24:20,440
Speaker 1: the fact that he hasn't won a playoff game without

471
00:24:20,440 --> 00:24:22,919
Speaker 1: Tom Brady in New England. You could toss in the

472
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:28,920
Speaker 1: fact that not only did Brady leave, but Gronk retired

473
00:24:29,040 --> 00:24:31,399
Speaker 1: and then came out of retirement to play again. He

474
00:24:31,480 --> 00:24:33,240
Speaker 1: just wanted to get away from Belichick, but to go

475
00:24:33,280 --> 00:24:34,840
Speaker 1: back to Ernie Adams. I'm sure a lot of people like,

476
00:24:34,880 --> 00:24:37,480
Speaker 1: who the hell's Ernie Adams When you read this story.

477
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,320
Speaker 1: He sounds like the big mystery man. I am just curious.

478
00:24:40,359 --> 00:24:42,719
Speaker 1: Did you try to door knock him or meet him

479
00:24:42,760 --> 00:24:46,240
Speaker 1: face to face? Have have you ever ever spoken with him? Yeah,

480
00:24:46,280 --> 00:24:48,159
Speaker 1: he's a mystery man. I mean, and and he was

481
00:24:48,240 --> 00:24:51,280
Speaker 1: intentionally behind the scenes. I mean, everybody should be so

482
00:24:51,359 --> 00:24:53,800
Speaker 1: lucky with the best friend. I mean they were best

483
00:24:54,200 --> 00:24:58,080
Speaker 1: going back to school and um, you know his He

484
00:24:58,240 --> 00:25:01,840
Speaker 1: was never in Shifts in a way other than to

485
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:07,560
Speaker 1: help Bill Belichick be successful. And his job largely was

486
00:25:07,680 --> 00:25:11,000
Speaker 1: to study hidden areas of the game, looking for advantages

487
00:25:11,080 --> 00:25:13,560
Speaker 1: and studying the rule book was one of those ways,

488
00:25:13,560 --> 00:25:16,080
Speaker 1: and he did. He helped build with some brilliant calls

489
00:25:16,119 --> 00:25:18,240
Speaker 1: over the years. He was always the guy in Bill's

490
00:25:18,240 --> 00:25:21,919
Speaker 1: ear on the headset, telling him, Hey challenge this, or

491
00:25:21,960 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 1: hey exploit this right here, whatever it might be. And

492
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:29,680
Speaker 1: I think that spy Gate, the entire apparatus that they

493
00:25:29,720 --> 00:25:34,120
Speaker 1: set up to videotape signals, was largely um Ernie Adams

494
00:25:34,200 --> 00:25:37,480
Speaker 1: right in the middle of it. Yeah. Um, I can't

495
00:25:37,800 --> 00:25:41,480
Speaker 1: remember whether it was the Eagles or the Rams. But

496
00:25:41,760 --> 00:25:43,840
Speaker 1: in your great story, I don't know if it's in

497
00:25:43,840 --> 00:25:46,000
Speaker 1: the book as well, but there was a tale that

498
00:25:46,040 --> 00:25:49,200
Speaker 1: the Rams had put in two new installs that there's

499
00:25:49,359 --> 00:25:51,879
Speaker 1: no way the Patriots could have been ready for and

500
00:25:51,960 --> 00:25:54,600
Speaker 1: lo and behold, Super Bowl comes and the Patriots are

501
00:25:54,600 --> 00:25:57,520
Speaker 1: all over it as if they had videotaped and were

502
00:25:57,560 --> 00:26:01,040
Speaker 1: ready somehow. Uh do you was its Eagles or Ram? Well,

503
00:26:01,080 --> 00:26:03,680
Speaker 1: that's the Rams. And what you're thinking of is this

504
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,879
Speaker 1: this report by the Boston Herald in two thousand eight.

505
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:12,760
Speaker 1: I believe that that seemed to confirm a rumor, a

506
00:26:12,800 --> 00:26:15,960
Speaker 1: long standing rumor, that the Patriots had taped the Rams

507
00:26:16,359 --> 00:26:19,199
Speaker 1: walk through the day before the Super Bowl. Now, to

508
00:26:19,240 --> 00:26:21,800
Speaker 1: be clear, there's no evidence that they ever taped the

509
00:26:21,840 --> 00:26:27,560
Speaker 1: walk through. Um, but the fact that they did have

510
00:26:27,680 --> 00:26:31,400
Speaker 1: videographers around and watching the walkthrough when it was happening,

511
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:34,080
Speaker 1: and they were laid back to the coaches some of

512
00:26:34,080 --> 00:26:36,240
Speaker 1: the things that they saw. Now, how much did that

513
00:26:36,480 --> 00:26:38,879
Speaker 1: impact the game? I don't know. I mean, I think that,

514
00:26:39,000 --> 00:26:41,520
Speaker 1: like we've seen over the years, that Belichick is an

515
00:26:41,560 --> 00:26:46,600
Speaker 1: unbelievably good red zone, um coach, but like that was

516
00:26:46,680 --> 00:26:51,520
Speaker 1: one of the things. And when spygate broke, it really

517
00:26:51,520 --> 00:26:55,480
Speaker 1: opened the floodgates to all of the real, in pursuit

518
00:26:55,560 --> 00:26:58,160
Speaker 1: ways that the Patriots had broken the rules over the years.

519
00:26:58,200 --> 00:27:01,640
Speaker 1: Because let's face it, bell a check has an incredible

520
00:27:01,680 --> 00:27:05,720
Speaker 1: work ethic and he's an unbelievably smart head coach. And

521
00:27:06,000 --> 00:27:09,000
Speaker 1: the one thing that coaches around the NFL will never

522
00:27:09,080 --> 00:27:11,960
Speaker 1: admit is that they got outsmarted. Like it had to

523
00:27:12,000 --> 00:27:13,520
Speaker 1: have been a different thing. And the fact is that

524
00:27:13,600 --> 00:27:18,239
Speaker 1: Belichick outsmarts coaches all the time. But because of this

525
00:27:18,359 --> 00:27:22,000
Speaker 1: cheating scandal, and because and frankly Belichick brought it on

526
00:27:22,119 --> 00:27:25,520
Speaker 1: himself by the way that he behaved, UM, that lent

527
00:27:25,640 --> 00:27:29,680
Speaker 1: credence to all the other real and perceived ways of

528
00:27:29,720 --> 00:27:34,359
Speaker 1: the Patriots might have violated the rules of regarding your book.

529
00:27:34,760 --> 00:27:38,639
Speaker 1: I am curious when you know, you approach Belichick, who

530
00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,160
Speaker 1: already doesn't like the media which something like this, does

531
00:27:42,200 --> 00:27:43,960
Speaker 1: he try to argue it or is he just like

532
00:27:44,200 --> 00:27:47,360
Speaker 1: you know, bleep off, I'm not gonna respond anything. Um.

533
00:27:47,400 --> 00:27:49,720
Speaker 1: You know, when we did that Patriots spike a to

534
00:27:49,760 --> 00:27:53,879
Speaker 1: deflacate story and the subsequent um, you know, stuff that

535
00:27:53,920 --> 00:27:55,879
Speaker 1: was in my book. UM, I mean we reached out

536
00:27:55,920 --> 00:27:59,840
Speaker 1: to the Patriots. Um, you know, the Patriots cooperated with

537
00:28:00,320 --> 00:28:03,280
Speaker 1: um the spike to the flated story. You'll see quotes

538
00:28:03,320 --> 00:28:06,639
Speaker 1: in there from Robin Glazer, who was the head attorney,

539
00:28:07,160 --> 00:28:09,199
Speaker 1: UM for the Patriots at the time and later for

540
00:28:09,280 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: the Craft Group, and UM, you know we always try

541
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:16,760
Speaker 1: to you know, whenever you do a story, you're trying

542
00:28:16,760 --> 00:28:21,560
Speaker 1: to incorporate as many points of view and um, pieces

543
00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:25,520
Speaker 1: of authority as you possibly can. And when Don vand

544
00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:30,760
Speaker 1: and I did that story, the Patriots cooperated with that story. Wow.

545
00:28:31,040 --> 00:28:34,199
Speaker 1: Um the other the other one, UM, that wasn't as bad,

546
00:28:34,400 --> 00:28:36,159
Speaker 1: and it was Belichick finding that edge. I don't know

547
00:28:36,160 --> 00:28:38,160
Speaker 1: if Ernie Adams gets credit. There was a playoff game,

548
00:28:38,160 --> 00:28:41,320
Speaker 1: I think against Baltimore and there was a certain lineup

549
00:28:41,400 --> 00:28:42,960
Speaker 1: that the Patriots did. I don't know if it was

550
00:28:42,960 --> 00:28:45,640
Speaker 1: for offensive linemen or something like that, but it was

551
00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 1: it caught the Ravens off carden. They thought it was

552
00:28:47,520 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 1: a penalty, and the restaurant like, it's not a penalty.

553
00:28:50,240 --> 00:28:52,120
Speaker 1: And Belichick was lauded for this. Do you remember when

554
00:28:52,120 --> 00:28:55,320
Speaker 1: I'm talking about absolutely I think that it was Belichick.

555
00:28:55,360 --> 00:28:58,760
Speaker 1: It is diabolical best, the idea of using a four

556
00:28:58,800 --> 00:29:02,560
Speaker 1: man offensive line and having a displaced lineman. So basically,

557
00:29:02,600 --> 00:29:06,120
Speaker 1: they were splitting an offensive lineman out wide and naming

558
00:29:06,200 --> 00:29:08,880
Speaker 1: him as a receiver, and they were putting a running

559
00:29:08,920 --> 00:29:13,080
Speaker 1: back out wide also but making him an ineligible receiver.

560
00:29:13,440 --> 00:29:17,440
Speaker 1: So technically the running back was an offensive lineman. But

561
00:29:17,520 --> 00:29:19,720
Speaker 1: because he was split wide and because he's a running back,

562
00:29:20,360 --> 00:29:23,200
Speaker 1: the Ravens are going to cover him, because it just

563
00:29:23,280 --> 00:29:26,280
Speaker 1: makes sense. And so he had seen that formation Nick

564
00:29:26,360 --> 00:29:29,960
Speaker 1: Saban and Lane Kiffin. It was called fight song because

565
00:29:30,160 --> 00:29:31,959
Speaker 1: when they ran it, they were going to score. They

566
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,840
Speaker 1: ran it at Alabama and Belichick saw it decided to

567
00:29:36,360 --> 00:29:39,719
Speaker 1: retool it to fix it. Because remember the Patriots had

568
00:29:39,760 --> 00:29:42,360
Speaker 1: come up short in the playoffs quite a few years.

569
00:29:42,360 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: They hadn't won a Super Bowl since two thousand four.

570
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,320
Speaker 1: At that point, it was almost ten years, and you know,

571
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:51,080
Speaker 1: they thought, hey, if we get do a jam in

572
00:29:51,120 --> 00:29:54,200
Speaker 1: a playoff game, we might need a jump start. Income

573
00:29:54,240 --> 00:29:56,400
Speaker 1: the Ravens to New England, a team that you know

574
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,000
Speaker 1: was scary in their road wides. I mean, they were

575
00:29:59,040 --> 00:30:01,640
Speaker 1: not scared of Newing It at all. They get up

576
00:30:01,680 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 1: fourteen points in the third quarter, Belichick deploys this funky

577
00:30:05,280 --> 00:30:08,880
Speaker 1: formation also runs it in no huddle to really mess

578
00:30:08,920 --> 00:30:12,560
Speaker 1: with the Ravens. And he knew. This is where I

579
00:30:12,640 --> 00:30:14,720
Speaker 1: think he was like get his diabolical best, because he

580
00:30:14,800 --> 00:30:19,440
Speaker 1: knew if he ran that that John Harbaugh, the Ravens coach,

581
00:30:19,480 --> 00:30:22,600
Speaker 1: a great coach, but has a short fuse, would go nuts.

582
00:30:23,040 --> 00:30:25,800
Speaker 1: And sure enough, Harbaugh ended up getting a fifteen yard

583
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:29,240
Speaker 1: on sportsman like conduct penalty during that sequence, which helped

584
00:30:29,240 --> 00:30:32,000
Speaker 1: the Patriots score, helped them get back in the game.

585
00:30:32,800 --> 00:30:36,720
Speaker 1: If the Patriots don't have that formation, if Belichick doesn't,

586
00:30:37,080 --> 00:30:40,440
Speaker 1: you know, tweak it from Nick Saban, I don't know

587
00:30:41,120 --> 00:30:44,640
Speaker 1: if the Patriots dynasty is reignited. I don't know if

588
00:30:44,680 --> 00:30:48,480
Speaker 1: Tom Brady is gone in Jimmy Garoppolo is the Patriots

589
00:30:48,480 --> 00:30:51,040
Speaker 1: starter in two thousand fifteen. I mean, if they had

590
00:30:51,440 --> 00:30:56,120
Speaker 1: lost another home playoff game in their opener in the playoffs,

591
00:30:56,560 --> 00:30:59,680
Speaker 1: you just wonder what would have happened in that that team.

592
00:30:59,720 --> 00:31:02,000
Speaker 1: And it says I gave Belichick credit. I gotta get

593
00:31:02,040 --> 00:31:05,480
Speaker 1: take one more jab from your story. November two thousand six,

594
00:31:05,520 --> 00:31:09,760
Speaker 1: the Packers catch someone shooting footage at lambeau Field when

595
00:31:09,800 --> 00:31:11,680
Speaker 1: he's asked about it, he lies and says, oh, I'm

596
00:31:11,760 --> 00:31:14,640
Speaker 1: I'm with Craft Productions. I'm I'm doing panoramic shots of

597
00:31:14,680 --> 00:31:18,520
Speaker 1: the stadium. And of course he was videotaping signals according

598
00:31:18,560 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: to the packers. Oh, I don't think that's disputed. I mean, yeah,

599
00:31:22,280 --> 00:31:27,360
Speaker 1: that was The videographers were armed with alibis, you know,

600
00:31:27,560 --> 00:31:30,920
Speaker 1: to say that you're getting shots for you know, NFL

601
00:31:30,960 --> 00:31:32,959
Speaker 1: films or whatever it was. I mean, it was a

602
00:31:32,960 --> 00:31:37,680
Speaker 1: complete attempt, after all of the warnings that the Patriots got,

603
00:31:38,720 --> 00:31:40,520
Speaker 1: you know, it was it was a complete and thorough

604
00:31:40,560 --> 00:31:45,360
Speaker 1: attempt to script the rules and too, you know, I

605
00:31:45,400 --> 00:31:48,400
Speaker 1: mean just it's kind of just crazy to think about

606
00:31:49,440 --> 00:31:52,520
Speaker 1: all the legacies that were on the line and the

607
00:31:52,600 --> 00:31:55,560
Speaker 1: fact that despite all the warnings, the Patriots continued to

608
00:31:56,560 --> 00:31:59,640
Speaker 1: videotape from the sideline. Now, I would assume, after all

609
00:31:59,640 --> 00:32:02,600
Speaker 1: these war in Spygate, the punishment, blah blah blah, there's

610
00:32:02,600 --> 00:32:04,840
Speaker 1: no way the Patriots will trying anything like this again.

611
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,600
Speaker 1: And then the counter is, well, Jason, in the last

612
00:32:07,640 --> 00:32:09,680
Speaker 1: five years, with success of it, they had, you know,

613
00:32:09,680 --> 00:32:11,800
Speaker 1: Brady had I think one Super Bowl, the one over

614
00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:15,160
Speaker 1: the Rams, right, and that was the last one. Or

615
00:32:15,160 --> 00:32:18,280
Speaker 1: do they have another one. You're talking about New England's

616
00:32:18,280 --> 00:32:22,440
Speaker 1: playoffs success, Well, the Super Bowl win over the Rams

617
00:32:22,480 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: was the last playoff game that they've won. So the

618
00:32:25,320 --> 00:32:28,800
Speaker 1: next year, remember they started eight now um slid a

619
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:30,120
Speaker 1: little bit towards the end of the year and then

620
00:32:30,120 --> 00:32:32,560
Speaker 1: they got bounced by Mike Rabels Titans in the first round.

621
00:32:32,880 --> 00:32:35,040
Speaker 1: Next year they missed the playoffs, and then this year

622
00:32:35,080 --> 00:32:37,360
Speaker 1: they make the playoffs against the Bills and get wax. Yeah,

623
00:32:37,400 --> 00:32:39,680
Speaker 1: they go wax. So basically, not a lot of success

624
00:32:39,680 --> 00:32:42,120
Speaker 1: in the last four years. And and that's why I

625
00:32:42,200 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 1: bring this up. And this I'm not a Patriots hater,

626
00:32:44,240 --> 00:32:47,440
Speaker 1: although I'm a Jets fan. It's just it's weird how

627
00:32:47,440 --> 00:32:50,800
Speaker 1: he had all that success early razor thin margin and

628
00:32:50,880 --> 00:32:53,280
Speaker 1: now late not as much success. Does that open the

629
00:32:53,320 --> 00:32:55,120
Speaker 1: door you think for a guy to middle like mcveda,

630
00:32:55,480 --> 00:32:57,520
Speaker 1: make a run at him. I mean, McVeigh has got

631
00:32:57,560 --> 00:32:59,120
Speaker 1: a lot of catching up to the has to coach

632
00:32:59,160 --> 00:33:01,200
Speaker 1: for a long time to catch Bill and to catch

633
00:33:01,240 --> 00:33:03,760
Speaker 1: Don Shula. But I mean, you know, look, the Patriots

634
00:33:03,800 --> 00:33:06,080
Speaker 1: beat the Seahawks, that beat the Falcons, to beat the Rams.

635
00:33:06,080 --> 00:33:08,760
Speaker 1: I mean they won three Super Bowls at the tail

636
00:33:08,920 --> 00:33:11,000
Speaker 1: end of the dynasty. I mean, you know, there's the

637
00:33:11,120 --> 00:33:15,800
Speaker 1: sheer longevity. It's just astounding considering all of the forces

638
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:19,800
Speaker 1: in the NFL to bring teams back to earth, um,

639
00:33:19,880 --> 00:33:21,760
Speaker 1: but to bring it back to McVeigh. I mean, look,

640
00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:24,360
Speaker 1: he got a head coaching job so young. He was

641
00:33:24,400 --> 00:33:27,280
Speaker 1: thirty years old. He's thirty six now. He's never had

642
00:33:27,360 --> 00:33:30,160
Speaker 1: a day under five d. He's done nothing but win games.

643
00:33:30,720 --> 00:33:35,320
Speaker 1: And if he can somehow figure out a way to

644
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:40,640
Speaker 1: make this life of coaching palatable for him, who knows

645
00:33:41,440 --> 00:33:43,680
Speaker 1: in a couple of decades where he might be on

646
00:33:43,680 --> 00:33:46,640
Speaker 1: on the on the wind call, he's a real shot.

647
00:33:47,360 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 1: Especially with the networks seth now throwing around money like

648
00:33:50,520 --> 00:33:54,880
Speaker 1: they threw around for Romo and Brady, and it's like,

649
00:33:55,160 --> 00:33:58,280
Speaker 1: is it really worth coaching when the money is going

650
00:33:58,320 --> 00:34:01,720
Speaker 1: to start to become better in television. Well, I don't

651
00:34:01,720 --> 00:34:03,280
Speaker 1: think Sean's in it for the money. I mean I

652
00:34:03,280 --> 00:34:05,400
Speaker 1: think that like it's a nice by product of of

653
00:34:05,440 --> 00:34:07,480
Speaker 1: what he's done. But I mean he got into coaching.

654
00:34:07,480 --> 00:34:09,839
Speaker 1: He left College Gruley so that he could join Jon

655
00:34:09,840 --> 00:34:14,040
Speaker 1: Gruden staff in Tampa Bay and be a grunt. Um.

656
00:34:14,080 --> 00:34:16,759
Speaker 1: You know, he's a coach, He's someone I think he

657
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: thrives off of the personal interaction. He loves being in

658
00:34:19,880 --> 00:34:23,160
Speaker 1: coaching meetings, he loves coaching players, and I think he

659
00:34:23,200 --> 00:34:26,799
Speaker 1: knows that even though a broadcast crew can be collegial,

660
00:34:27,320 --> 00:34:30,520
Speaker 1: it's just not the same, and that it's that feeling

661
00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:33,279
Speaker 1: that I think will that will be the thing that

662
00:34:33,840 --> 00:34:37,440
Speaker 1: ultimately is the decider for him about whether he leaves

663
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: coaching or not, is whether he can live with himself

664
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,080
Speaker 1: without coaching. Alright, Seth wicker Sham, great McVeigh story, new

665
00:34:44,080 --> 00:34:46,440
Speaker 1: book out um and what else you got in the

666
00:34:46,440 --> 00:34:51,120
Speaker 1: hopperau Just work, just grinding away. Do you have any

667
00:34:51,200 --> 00:34:53,040
Speaker 1: any stories coming up? Do you want to tease or

668
00:34:53,040 --> 00:34:54,960
Speaker 1: you don't talk about them before they drop? Not yet,

669
00:34:55,239 --> 00:34:57,560
Speaker 1: thinks though. Okay, all right man, Hey, thanks for taking

670
00:34:57,600 --> 00:34:59,160
Speaker 1: the time, Seth. Then now we'll talk to you soon,

671
00:34:59,640 --> 00:35:00,160
Speaker 1: all right, man,