Speaker 1: Hi everyone, It's Sophia. Welcome to Work in Progress. Hello
Speaker 1: whip smarties. Today we are joined by an actress that
Speaker 1: I absolutely adore. I think she is one of the
Speaker 1: most talented people in my generation. From Broadway to film
Speaker 1: to TV, she is an absolute legend. She earned a
Speaker 1: Primetime Emmy Award nomination for her performance as Irene in
Speaker 1: the Hula limited series Welcome to Chippendale's. She received her
Speaker 1: first Grammy nomination in the category Best Musical Theater Recording
Speaker 1: of Sweeney Todd and like I mentioned one a Tony
Speaker 1: in twenty fifteen. She is so funny, so charming and
Speaker 1: just so wise. And next up she is starring in
Speaker 1: the new series Happy Face, now streaming on Paramount Plus.
Speaker 1: It is a true crime story inspired by the true
Speaker 1: life story of Melissa G. Moore, a young woman who
Speaker 1: discovered that her beloved father was actually the prolific serial
Speaker 1: killer known as Happy Face. As an adult, she changed
Speaker 1: her name and guarded her secret, but eventually decided to
Speaker 1: start working in advocacy, supporting victims who have experience with
Speaker 1: this kind of crime. She's absolutely incredible, and today I'm
Speaker 1: going to ask Annalie all about what it's like to
Speaker 1: do this show what her favorite lessons are from Broadway,
Speaker 1: film and or television, and what Real Housewives series is
Speaker 1: her favorite. Let's dive in with Annalie Ashford.
Speaker 2: Hi.
Speaker 1: I'm so amped that you're here, and I'm also laughing
Speaker 1: because we've had the most ridiculous I don't know how
Speaker 1: long we've been doing this ten minutes of trying to
Speaker 1: get our audio things to work. I don't know if
Speaker 1: you folks at home are going to get any of
Speaker 1: that treat, but we've had a nice giggle.
Speaker 2: It was really good. I feel really good about how
Speaker 2: I look my posture right now. My posture is not
Speaker 2: a result of me trying to have good posture or
Speaker 2: me trying to be good to my spine, but it's
Speaker 2: really just because my microphone set up as bizarre.
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, did you get one of those
Speaker 1: chairs that like you put your you put your calves in,
Speaker 1: and then it's supposed to make you sit up straight.
Speaker 2: I don't know if you can see my chair has ears?
Speaker 2: Can you see his like bunny ears?
Speaker 1: No?
Speaker 2: But maybe I should get one of those you put
Speaker 2: your calves in? It is that the real thing?
Speaker 1: I think it's like an ergonomic thing. Is that the
Speaker 1: right word?
Speaker 2: Do you get it in the magazine that you get
Speaker 2: on when you go on the plane?
Speaker 1: Probably sky Mall? Yes, I'm it feels like something you
Speaker 1: could get on sky.
Speaker 2: Have you seen a sky mall lately? I have not.
Speaker 1: I haven't, but honestly, I think they should bring them.
Speaker 2: Back in paper please. Yeah, that sounds like a very
Speaker 2: delightful treat when boarding an airplane.
Speaker 1: Yes, I think we deserve more air traffic controllers and.
Speaker 2: More hallelujah right invent to both as.
Speaker 1: Two people talking about our travel schedules. I'm like, just please,
Speaker 1: please keep the planes in the air. That's all I want.
Speaker 2: I've had a couple of rough landings recently, and I
Speaker 2: have prayed in a way that was different that will
Speaker 2: feel very uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, you're like, oh, this, this is what it means
Speaker 1: to strike terror into one's heart. It's happening to me.
Speaker 1: I understand that turn a phrase.
Speaker 2: Now, Oh my god in so many ways like oh.
Speaker 1: Yea yea, which is also a lot like people who
Speaker 1: do what we do, who you know, play in the
Speaker 1: circus for a living and try to pretend they're not
Speaker 1: anxious all the time. What are you talking about what
Speaker 1: are you talking about? To feel that kind of like
Speaker 1: gripping anxiety that's worse every once in a while. When
Speaker 1: when that happens to me, I'm like, oh, interesting, I
Speaker 1: didn't know it could go up from ten, but now
Speaker 1: we're at a twelve, and that's what a twelve feels like.
Speaker 2: Yeah, we live in like a low level, constant pulse
Speaker 2: of anxiety and then you know, yeah, when it gets
Speaker 2: ramped up, you're like, oh, do I need a full
Speaker 2: xanax right now or just to send about would you
Speaker 2: like a rantl PAM or would you just like a propanel? Oh,
Speaker 2: I said the fancy name for beta blocker?
Speaker 1: Is that what that is?
Speaker 2: Yeah, propanol, it's a beta blocker. Have you dived into
Speaker 2: beta blockers?
Speaker 1: Yeah? I had like a weird COVID thing almost two
Speaker 1: years ago, which was deeply scary and also really humbling
Speaker 1: because when I was like, no, I'm a very healthy
Speaker 1: person and I understand that, like, you know, a fourth
Speaker 1: COVID infection could probably be really bad for you, but
Speaker 1: also my job requires me to be in large theaters
Speaker 1: of people. What do you want from me? And then
Speaker 1: the doctor after a few weeks was like, I don't
Speaker 1: think you're taking this as seriously as.
Speaker 2: You should be.
Speaker 1: You do know that the number one horrible side effect
Speaker 1: of COVID for women between forty and fifty is cardiac issues.
Speaker 1: And I literally if I was like it was like
Speaker 1: he'd smacked me, like straight into gone with the wind.
Speaker 1: I was so offended and I was like, I'm barely forty.
Speaker 1: I'm forty. Oh no, And it was like this very
Speaker 1: rude awakening because I was like, no, but I have
Speaker 1: you know that sort of like trauma that freezes you
Speaker 1: a little bit stunted. And I think I'm perpetually twenty
Speaker 1: six and you're saying I need to like go to
Speaker 1: the doctor regularly to see what's up with this, and
Speaker 1: they were kind of like, welcome to adulthood, lady, and
Speaker 1: I really didn't like it.
Speaker 2: You said, where's my recipim.
Speaker 1: I was like, I guess I'll take all this heart
Speaker 1: medication and go sit next to Morty at the cardiac center. No,
Speaker 1: it was like me and a bunch of old dudes
Speaker 1: all summer long, and actually they were adorable. And I
Speaker 1: did have moments where my actor brain kicked in and
Speaker 1: I was like, this would be like such a cute
Speaker 1: little series of shorts. And then I was like, probably
Speaker 1: super inappropriate to ask all these people to violate their
Speaker 1: own hippa as well to be on camera with me.
Speaker 1: But if I could, it would just be so cute.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and you could. I want to know their life
Speaker 2: stories already. I'm in. It was like it was me
Speaker 2: and the old guys, you and Morty. Did Morty take
Speaker 2: lorez pan?
Speaker 1: I didn't ask him what he was taking, but he
Speaker 1: he walked with his little cane like he was in
Speaker 1: a little dance routine a lot, and I really was adorable.
Speaker 2: To me, Marty sounds fantastic.
Speaker 1: He had a great sense of humor.
Speaker 2: Is he in show viz chovas adjacent?
Speaker 1: I feel like probably showing going to like the nice
Speaker 1: hospital in the middle of La I bet like most
Speaker 1: of those guys were you have?
Speaker 2: You had no idea? But he was the boom operator
Speaker 2: on taxi.
Speaker 1: Right, He's like I was the one. I'm tod Robert
Speaker 1: and narrow hacked.
Speaker 2: Wait did you take propinall? Was that? Why? I mean?
Speaker 1: I like took all sorts of I had to get
Speaker 1: Like one of the worst things was the they would
Speaker 1: do these like contrast MRIs that I had to do,
Speaker 1: and those I really didn't like, because at least once
Speaker 1: I did the first one, I knew what was coming.
Speaker 1: But like when I first, you know, got back from
Speaker 1: this stage play I was doing in London, they were
Speaker 1: basically like, well, we've got to run all the tests
Speaker 1: again here to like go through the proper levels of
Speaker 1: insurance and whatever. And they were like, oh, and you
Speaker 1: haven't had a contrast MRI. We're going to give you
Speaker 1: this thing and we're just going to push this die.
Speaker 1: You're gonna give a little bit of a warm.
Speaker 2: Flush in your pelvic region. Uh huh, I know.
Speaker 1: And I was like a warm flush. I was like,
Speaker 1: I feel like someone just dumped a pot of almost
Speaker 1: boiling water, like up my crotch. What are you talking
Speaker 1: about a warm flush like this? I was like, I
Speaker 1: must be dying, and they were like, you're not dying.
Speaker 1: It'll pass in about ninety seconds.
Speaker 2: It's such a weird feeling.
Speaker 1: It's not great.
Speaker 2: No. It's also like, why don't you just say you're
Speaker 2: gonna make it. It's gonna feel like you peed your
Speaker 2: pants but you didn't.
Speaker 1: It's going to feel like you peed your pants with
Speaker 1: boiling water.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I didn't feel like it felt as boiling. I'm
Speaker 2: sorry you had that experience.
Speaker 1: I mean I was very unwell at the time. The
Speaker 1: next time I did it, like three months later to
Speaker 1: get my official like, you're in the clear. You can
Speaker 1: get on longer flights again, buddy, it wasn't as bad.
Speaker 1: But I also thought maybe that was just because I
Speaker 1: knew what was coming.
Speaker 2: You know, it could have been a combo platter. It
Speaker 2: could have been a little it could have been a
Speaker 2: left leftover COVID in you pelvic pation.
Speaker 1: It could have just been the high inflammation I was
Speaker 1: dealing with. It made like warm, feel like fire.
Speaker 2: Do you know what else does that to you? Is
Speaker 2: magnesium pushes? Have you ever gotten a magnesium push? Wait?
Speaker 1: No, but I got an NA D one.
Speaker 2: How do you feel I have? That's the one thing
Speaker 2: I haven't done. What it feel like? Will you tell me?
Speaker 1: Felt like someone put from like tit to tit ribcage
Speaker 1: like in a vice and went and I was like,
Speaker 1: oh my god, oh my god, the chest compression is
Speaker 1: so crazy. But also I went down a little bit
Speaker 1: of like a nerdy rabbit hole that whole fall like
Speaker 1: post being told I wasn't going to die because I
Speaker 1: was like, well, I have to figure out how to
Speaker 1: like not to be one of those crazy like guys
Speaker 1: who's changing out his blood with his kid's blood. I'm
Speaker 1: not like that nuts, Yeah, but I was like, there
Speaker 1: are there definitely have to be advances in versions of
Speaker 1: like biohacking or cell therapy or whatever, like the cool
Speaker 1: stuff they're doing in Switzerland. I was like, what are
Speaker 1: the things I could do here that won't bankrupt me
Speaker 1: but that might help me like recover from this. And
Speaker 1: I did a lot of research on NAD and was like, yeah,
Speaker 1: I'll give this thing a try. And then I was like, oh,
Speaker 1: this is why people say if if you feel like
Speaker 1: you're having a cardiac arrest, tell us and we'll slow
Speaker 1: down the trip. And I was like, I just don't
Speaker 1: know if I'm made for this stuff. You guys, Like,
Speaker 1: I was like, now I'm forty, I don't want to
Speaker 1: I don't want to touch it.
Speaker 2: But it was surren I've taken it orally. Okay, I've
Speaker 2: taken it orally just the pills, you know, like uh.
Speaker 1: With the lorazapammer separately, not at the same time. Okay.
Speaker 2: You know, sometimes if nobody was around it take them
Speaker 2: at the same time. Lorazza pan is usually like a
Speaker 2: night before a bed situation when I'm having like bad
Speaker 2: anxiety and I can't sleep, I use it instead of
Speaker 2: like a sleeping aid. I take like a half of
Speaker 2: half like I take such a low dose, and if
Speaker 2: it's but I can tell if I'm really like really struggling,
Speaker 2: if I'm having like I'm gonna have a panic attack moment,
Speaker 2: then I'll take a full one and not pass out,
Speaker 2: which really means you needed it, wow, because.
Speaker 1: Your your adrenaline is really burning through. Yeah.
Speaker 2: And then but the NAD I didn't real I just
Speaker 2: was taking it for immune system stuff. But I've never
Speaker 2: gotten the drip. I've never gotten a push, I've never
Speaker 2: gotten the id.
Speaker 1: And it was it was it was wild. Welcome to
Speaker 1: our medical show.
Speaker 2: Everyw I know. I literally I could talk about the
Speaker 2: gut microbiome for the next hour if you want, got
Speaker 2: me too.
Speaker 1: I have a friend who literally became a like an
Speaker 1: expert in it after a postpartum thing, and I started
Speaker 1: one of like the best health companies in the world
Speaker 1: because she was just like, there have to be better
Speaker 1: options for moms than this. She's the clost person I know.
Speaker 1: So yeah. I ask her like all my nerdy questions
Speaker 1: about what is legit?
Speaker 2: Do I have candida? Do I have stable? Should I
Speaker 2: take probiotics? I should get a test? Right? What should
Speaker 2: I do? Yeah?
Speaker 1: She's always like, hey, just remember that anybody who's trying
Speaker 1: to sell you like forty six supplements is trying to
Speaker 1: profit off of your checkout of forty six items.
Speaker 2: I'm like, right, ray, Yeah. But also when you go
Speaker 2: to certain health food starts aka Airwan sometimes in that aisle,
Speaker 2: I get like lost in good packaging. Yeah, packaging for me,
Speaker 2: Oh god, I'll be like I need this colostrum because
Speaker 2: it's in a beautiful I'm.
Speaker 1: Like, how gorgeous. Okay, if you love packaging. There's a
Speaker 1: show that came out on Netflix many years ago called Abstract.
Speaker 1: Have you ever seen it?
Speaker 2: I've heard about it.
Speaker 1: Oh, it is my favorite show. Every episode they profile
Speaker 1: an artist or a designer, and there's an episode on
Speaker 1: typography that literally it's it's like it's like someone scratching
Speaker 1: an itch that your brain has wanted scratched for your
Speaker 1: whole life. It's so soothing and pleasurable and gorgeous. To
Speaker 1: look at that. That is my that's my gift to you.
Speaker 2: Okay, I can't for today I'm excited about I just
Speaker 2: was in DC for a day and I drove past
Speaker 2: a like a cleaning a cleaners. It was just like
Speaker 2: a laundromat, but the advertise, like their logo was so.
Speaker 1: Clean, corgeous. Did you take a pig?
Speaker 2: I I almost did, but I was like, what am
Speaker 2: I going to do with this? Like go start a
Speaker 2: cleaning company, like a brand of laundromats that just have
Speaker 2: really good logo. But really, Then I had a whole
Speaker 2: thought process of sometimes we do pick a place for
Speaker 2: their logo. Yeah, because you're like, that looks like a
Speaker 2: really clean, lovely logo, so the place must be clean
Speaker 2: and lovely.
Speaker 1: Yeah. Well, it's like, look how much they care about
Speaker 1: the details. I want people who care less details to
Speaker 1: that level to care about my details.
Speaker 2: Thank you for figuring that out for me.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I understand it. I I'm one of those people
Speaker 1: who can't not take the picture and who also can't
Speaker 1: not take the screenshot, to the point that when I
Speaker 1: realized I'd hit over two hundred and fifty thousand screenshots
Speaker 1: on my phone, I was like I I sat with
Speaker 1: myself for a minute. I was like, is this the
Speaker 1: thing I should address with my therapist? I don't think
Speaker 1: Or is that the most insufferable question I've ever asked
Speaker 1: myself in a sort of self inventory.
Speaker 2: You know what I think it means? You're an artist?
Speaker 1: Thank you. Thank you for figuring that out for me.
Speaker 2: It makes sense to me. I have screenshot stuff all
Speaker 2: the time. My husband does not, and he's sort of
Speaker 2: like bewildered by why that. I also, you know when
Speaker 2: you have to go somewhere and you need them for me,
Speaker 2: you have a flight and you don't want to open
Speaker 2: your email or open your app like eighteen hundred times
Speaker 2: just to shut it. Yet it Oh yeah, I always
Speaker 2: go right away.
Speaker 1: Oh the boarding get way?
Speaker 2: Do that? Yeah?
Speaker 1: Done. I screenshot the boarding pass and then favored it
Speaker 1: and it's my last thing in my favorites album. Done,
Speaker 1: so I have it one touch and then when I
Speaker 1: get on the plane, I delete it.
Speaker 2: Are your pictures organized?
Speaker 1: They really go in waves? I will be the most
Speaker 1: organized person. And then also the to do to organize
Speaker 1: pile or cluster is also very overwhelming. Yeah, me too,
Speaker 1: But when I do it, I do it really well.
Speaker 2: Good for you. I never do that part. Well, my
Speaker 2: mine's just a big mess. It's just kind of bad.
Speaker 1: Okay, So this is the thing, and I will be honest.
Speaker 1: I haven't been doing it every day, but a friend
Speaker 1: of mine started this on January first, and she's really good.
Speaker 1: She's doing it every day. And she said, every single day,
Speaker 1: starting for New Year's search the date in your phone. Okay,
Speaker 1: so you know today is April fifteenth. Plug in April
Speaker 1: fifteenth in your eyephotos and it will bring up every
Speaker 1: photo from every April fifteenth in your entire photo album
Speaker 1: and then you can do a clean out.
Speaker 2: That's a great way too clean, I know.
Speaker 1: And she's been doing it every single day of the year,
Speaker 1: and I'm so enamored with it. But I was like,
Speaker 1: you know what, even if I do it twice a week,
Speaker 1: it's more than I've done in the last ten years.
Speaker 2: Oh my god, that's a great hack. Okay, I'm gonna
Speaker 2: take that because that will help me. I also, I
Speaker 2: just had a baby. I have a six month old,
Speaker 2: which is very fun. She's really silly, sweet, and then
Speaker 2: I have an eight year old. But I have become
Speaker 2: that person that somebody's like, hey, let me see the baby,
Speaker 2: and I want to see you know, your let bloy jack.
Speaker 2: And then I go, okay, hold on, I have my
Speaker 2: friend in the picture. And I turn into you know,
Speaker 2: like a seventy five year old woman on my phone
Speaker 2: trying to find the picture and people waiting, you know,
Speaker 2: just right, because.
Speaker 1: You also want to find the best picture.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you know, I want to I want to really
Speaker 2: show off her little blonde roots that are coming in
Speaker 2: because she was born with dark hair and she has
Speaker 2: her hair. Usually their hair falls out and then they
Speaker 2: like have new hair that grows in. Hers did not
Speaker 2: fall out, and now she's got blonde roots.
Speaker 1: She's got like a reverse dye job.
Speaker 2: Yes, she looks like a guy who did like just
Speaker 2: for men and hasn't done his roots.
Speaker 1: It's god, I loney.
Speaker 2: So I'm always trying to find like the picture that
Speaker 2: really shows her blonde roots that.
Speaker 1: Feels very spiritually aligned, because you are one of the
Speaker 1: funniest people in our universe. So for you to have
Speaker 1: a baby with a reverse dye job that's also natural
Speaker 1: is like it's chef's kiss to me. I love that.
Speaker 2: It's so wacky.
Speaker 1: You're like, oh, the universe really gave me a cookie hair.
Speaker 2: It's so funny, and she also has no idea. You know,
Speaker 2: she's just like smiling and dream She's a baby, she's
Speaker 2: living baby dreams. It's really good. It's a look. I
Speaker 2: love it. She's funny.
Speaker 1: And now a word from our sponsors who make the
Speaker 1: show possible. I hate when women get asked this question,
Speaker 1: but I'm also I mean it genuinely because I'm fascinated
Speaker 1: with all the things that you have going on, and
Speaker 1: especially like Broadway schedules. How do you how do you
Speaker 1: do the thing and have the family?
Speaker 2: Well, you know it shows a week is like no joke.
Speaker 1: No, it's it's like a crazy mission.
Speaker 2: I would say, you know, when I go back into
Speaker 2: TV film land, you know when we have a big
Speaker 2: day or night, shoots are crazy. That is a raque thing.
Speaker 2: But I still always say, we don't have to sing, like,
Speaker 2: we don't have to like hit a note that everybody
Speaker 2: knows you hit or you didn't. There's something like really
Speaker 2: vulnerable about being on stage period because you can't say,
Speaker 2: can we try again? But also singing in particular and
Speaker 2: dancing is because it's it. It's also it's an athletic event.
Speaker 2: You know. And I've always loved the Olympics, but the
Speaker 2: older I get, the more I'm like really like, oh,
Speaker 2: I also you know enough when a kicker goes to
Speaker 2: make the field goal and like a really high pressure
Speaker 2: situation and it doesn't go well, I almost can't look
Speaker 2: like you know, it feels like Opening Night or something.
Speaker 2: It's like very uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: That makes me so uncomfortable. Like Adam Sandler movies. I
Speaker 1: love him, but if I'm watching an Adam Sandler movie
Speaker 1: at home, I have to pause it and go for
Speaker 1: a walk around the house and then come back the
Speaker 1: secondhand embarrassment feeling. Yeah, just the whole point of that
Speaker 1: kind of comedy, right, is like you're supposed to feel
Speaker 1: embarrassed by everything going wrong. Yeah, it is so physically
Speaker 1: almost painful for me.
Speaker 2: Yes, I hear you.
Speaker 1: And I thought about this a lot when I because
Speaker 1: I hadn't done a stage play, you know, in my
Speaker 1: adult career, until I went and did this show I
Speaker 1: was telling you about on the West End, and I
Speaker 1: had days where I was like, I feel like I've
Speaker 1: been beaten. Yeah, it's like someone beat me in my sleep,
Speaker 1: from my head to my toes. I don't know what's happening,
Speaker 1: and I would think about people like you and be like,
Speaker 1: what would I have? How would I do this? And
Speaker 1: be singing because I was just talking and then you know,
Speaker 1: yelling and crying and having all sorts of insane physical experiences.
Speaker 1: But like I didn't have to sing.
Speaker 2: They're all different, you know. I was just say, it's
Speaker 2: like being like a basketball player or baseball players have
Speaker 2: to play every day. Basketball players have to play every day,
Speaker 2: you know, the same kind of thing. But you get
Speaker 2: your endurance up, you train, and then there's also it's
Speaker 2: a marathon. It's not a sprint, you know, but and
Speaker 2: that's why your body hurts so bad. You're in this
Speaker 2: like long term event. You know. It's just sometimes it
Speaker 2: just feels like it goes on. It's such a gift.
Speaker 2: You have so much gratitude, you know, there's it's always
Speaker 2: coupled with immense gratitude and joy, and you know, the
Speaker 2: communion that you have with the audience every night is magic.
Speaker 2: But there's definitely an emotional hangover and physical hangover. Yeah
Speaker 2: you know what I mean. You wake up you're like, oh,
Speaker 2: you know.
Speaker 1: What helps me kind of understand it, especially because you
Speaker 1: do feel like when you get to do this and
Speaker 1: you love your job so much, you always feel like
Speaker 1: anytime you voice about any truth of anything that's difficult,
Speaker 1: you're like, but I love it. Please don't think I
Speaker 1: just did it.
Speaker 2: I literally just did it.
Speaker 1: But it's like, I know what that is, and I
Speaker 1: think what I what has comforted me weirdly, And this
Speaker 1: is so revealing of the kind of nerd I was
Speaker 1: in school, is understanding like the scientific theory of how
Speaker 1: every action has an equal and opposite reaction, like the
Speaker 1: idea of a pendulum swing. So I think, if you're
Speaker 1: gonna get that much joy from the art and the
Speaker 1: danger of like what's gonna happen tonight and the experience
Speaker 1: like you're saying that you have with the audience, the
Speaker 1: equal and opposite reaction is like sometimes you wake up
Speaker 1: and you're like, who ran me over with a mac
Speaker 1: truck in my sleep last night?
Speaker 2: Totally? You know the other part of it. My husband
Speaker 2: did this play Isn't It Twice Now where he plays
Speaker 2: a guy who hits rock bottom and then ultimately gets
Speaker 2: sober and it's about addiction, and it's this great play
Speaker 2: called The White Chip. And he played this really intense arc,
Speaker 2: you know, and also he spoke NonStop. He's just basically
Speaker 2: talking for ninety minutes straight. And one of our friends,
Speaker 2: who's a fantastic actress, Crystal Dickinson, she was like, Joe,
Speaker 2: you know that you're not playing that part, but your
Speaker 2: body doesn't know that you're not playing that part. So
Speaker 2: you know that great book, The Body keeps the Score. Yes,
Speaker 2: you know, that's actually like a great such a beautiful book.
Speaker 2: And sometimes I think it's a great book for actors
Speaker 2: to read because it's a really like healthy reminder that
Speaker 2: you do indeed need rest because you're putting your body
Speaker 2: through this marathon, not only physically, but like emotionally. I'm
Speaker 2: really steadfast, and like we leave it at the door
Speaker 2: when we leave, you know, leave it, leave it at
Speaker 2: your trigger when you walk you know, when you walk away.
Speaker 2: And I really believe in like the separation of it.
Speaker 2: Like I loved. One of the things I loved about
Speaker 2: Severance when it came out was that it helped me
Speaker 2: explain actor brain, you know really, and it's like kind
Speaker 2: of like Severance, you like, you become a different person
Speaker 2: for a little bit, and then you've got to be
Speaker 2: like and come back to you. You can't like lave
Speaker 2: in it. You can't sit in that, especially when you're
Speaker 2: playing the dark stuff totally.
Speaker 1: But you're right, your body doesn't know the difference rents.
Speaker 1: So if you film a scene where your partner or
Speaker 1: your sibling dies for eight hours on set one day, like,
Speaker 1: it's in your body and you've got to figure out
Speaker 1: how to get it out of your body and also
Speaker 1: not apologize for how insane it sounds to say, oh,
Speaker 1: this trauma is in my body totally.
Speaker 2: The certain scores too, and these people stay inside your
Speaker 2: bones in a way that you're like, why do I
Speaker 2: feel so heavy? Like when we were doing studying in
Speaker 2: the park with George. This score is one of the
Speaker 2: best scores that's ever been written, in my opinion, but
Speaker 2: it's also half of it's in minor. It doesn't really
Speaker 2: resolve until the last song. There's this beautiful chord that resolves,
Speaker 2: and it's kind of when the piece resolves, So the
Speaker 2: majority of the play you're kind of living in this
Speaker 2: there's a chord that's repeated over and over again, and
Speaker 2: it's a minor, so it's uncomfortable. It's like, sounds simple
Speaker 2: to just say it's sad, but it's like very it's
Speaker 2: like melancholy. And then the last song of the first
Speaker 2: act and the second act it's called Sunday and it's
Speaker 2: a it's the funeral March, which is also like beautiful,
Speaker 2: but you know it's melancholy. Yeah, sad, sad. So it
Speaker 2: stays in your bones, it stays in your guts.
Speaker 1: It really does. How do you how do you work
Speaker 1: on processing that out? Like when you talk about the
Speaker 1: severance experience and you and your husband both you know,
Speaker 1: do this job. So thank god someone gets your your
Speaker 1: thing when you come home, But how have you kind
Speaker 1: of figured out in your personal life and your individual
Speaker 1: life how to shake all those cobwebs and chords out
Speaker 1: of your body.
Speaker 2: I disassociate cool.
Speaker 1: I did that for a really long time.
Speaker 2: It's really a healthy no.
Speaker 1: I used to sort of wear it as a badge
Speaker 1: of honor. I'd be like that it gets to me
Speaker 1: and and eventually I was like, this is deeply emotionally.
Speaker 2: Unheathy, like I'm exploding. I don't know why.
Speaker 1: That's so weird that I woke up and I don't
Speaker 1: know whose life I'm living or who lives in my
Speaker 1: house with me and I don't know why this happened.
Speaker 2: I mean, you know, that's one way. I A long
Speaker 2: time ago, I watched this great interview that Emma Thompson
Speaker 2: did I Larry King, and she explained that she liked
Speaker 2: the game of being able to walk on and pop
Speaker 2: right in, like walk right on stage and be able
Speaker 2: to be right in, like do enough homework that you
Speaker 2: can slip in and slip out like really with ease,
Speaker 2: and so really like the goal is to have as
Speaker 2: much homework as you can done. And also flexibility, yeah
Speaker 2: have For me, I find that if all the homework
Speaker 2: is there and I in a safe environment, then I
Speaker 2: feel comfortable being really flexible and I can kind of
Speaker 2: slide in and out. And I make myself kind of
Speaker 2: slide in and out. So if we're doing something really dark,
Speaker 2: I kind of give the crew, like and everybody there
Speaker 2: like a breath to know that they can laugh, that
Speaker 2: we can joke around, like let's have some light. But
Speaker 2: that does not work for everybody. So I'm like really
Speaker 2: careful making sure kind of what the other actors need.
Speaker 2: But I sometimes need that because I'm such an mpath. Yeah,
Speaker 2: but I can feel the crew and I feel like
Speaker 2: what everybody else is kind of navigating, and I don't
Speaker 2: want them to like be in a state for five
Speaker 2: hours where they feel like they have to be like
Speaker 2: silent and walk on it. You know. I don't know,
Speaker 2: there's something kind of about the energy of the whole
Speaker 2: day that feels lighter and brighter if we can all laugh,
Speaker 2: like we need to be reverent of whatever we're working
Speaker 2: on in the moment. But I always think back to
Speaker 2: that amazing interview that i'm A Thompson did, and I
Speaker 2: just kind of want to be like her. So I
Speaker 2: kind of I like, this is going to sound insane,
Speaker 2: but I play like a little game with myself. I like, Okay,
Speaker 2: when can you slip out? Can you slip back in?
Speaker 2: Like how can you weave in and out of character?
Speaker 2: Like basically can you go through the severance elevator?
Speaker 1: Yeah?
Speaker 2: But that but that doesn't always like make sense for everybody,
Speaker 2: So I don't I kind of take a tip from
Speaker 2: whoever I'm working with and kind of navigate around them
Speaker 2: as well, what do you do?
Speaker 1: Oh, that's really cool. I think I'm always kind of learning,
Speaker 1: you know. I feel like part of the goal right
Speaker 1: of being alive is to learn more and navigate better
Speaker 1: and like the thing I've really been so I'm kind
Speaker 1: of meditating on and I didn't have the language for
Speaker 1: it when I turned thirty. I think I discovered the
Speaker 1: language for it when I turned forty. And I realize
Speaker 1: it's been this exploration over the last ten years is
Speaker 1: how to hold more and more things to be true
Speaker 1: at the same time, so to be able to say
Speaker 1: the set I'm on. Let's say we're doing a movie together.
Speaker 1: Our set is incredibly safe and it's dangerous. Yeah, it
Speaker 1: has to be so we can be in the scene.
Speaker 1: You know, I am completely in control and I am
Speaker 1: completely out of control in this space. I've done all
Speaker 1: my homework so I can slip in. And also I
Speaker 1: don't know what the fuck's going on and I could
Speaker 1: be surprised, like yeah, And you know I can in
Speaker 1: my personal world in activism, I can hold things I
Speaker 1: know to be true to be true, I e. What
Speaker 1: makes democracy work and what doesn't. Social science data matters
Speaker 1: like kids do better when they have lunch at school.
Speaker 1: Defunding school lunches is psychotic, and I have to figure
Speaker 1: out why someone who is pro defunding school lunches got
Speaker 1: that way and I have to be able to listen
Speaker 1: to what they believe to be true so that I
Speaker 1: can then have a conversation with them rather than an argument,
Speaker 1: and maybe we come to a new thing instead of
Speaker 1: we get in a fight and then they never want
Speaker 1: to change their mind, you know. So it's like, yeah,
Speaker 1: there's something about that for me. And so the way
Speaker 1: I think about it is like every year, I want
Speaker 1: to feel like I've learned more and shifted my capability
Speaker 1: or expanded my opinion or tolerance or whatever. But also
Speaker 1: it's weird because it's like, yeah, sometimes I find that
Speaker 1: the interest in so many things and wanting to take
Speaker 1: a cue from my coworkers or my crew means that
Speaker 1: I start thinking about what everybody else is doing and
Speaker 1: what everybody else needs, and making sure everybody else has
Speaker 1: everything that is going to make their day go great.
Speaker 1: And then I realize I haven't done anything for myself. Yeah,
Speaker 1: And so it's like, I don't know, it's a bit
Speaker 1: like being in like the spin cycle, but I think
Speaker 1: if I can stay aware of it, at least I
Speaker 1: can sort of stay on top of.
Speaker 2: The water totally. You know, As you were saying all
Speaker 2: of that, The first thing I thought of was my
Speaker 2: husband says, two things can be true at the same
Speaker 2: time all the time, and it's actually like, it's a
Speaker 2: great way to argue with somebody, as you said, it's
Speaker 2: a great way to resolve, it's a great way to reset,
Speaker 2: and it's also a great way to have common ground
Speaker 2: and also keep a conversation going. And then the other
Speaker 2: thing that you just said. As you were talking, I
Speaker 2: had a realization that my whole explanation was about people
Speaker 2: pleasing and just making everybody else feel good.
Speaker 1: On the set.
Speaker 2: Parents like, yeah, you know sometimes and the one thing
Speaker 2: about what we do for a living, which is super
Speaker 2: fun and all the things, but it is also navigating
Speaker 2: personalities constant. It's a really social profession, and sometimes it's
Speaker 2: just easier when everybody's happy, or it's easier when everybody
Speaker 2: is having a better day. It's easier when the vibe
Speaker 2: is good. I would say that that's true for any
Speaker 2: anybody's job. Yeah, and sometimes I think, unfortunately, when you
Speaker 2: should be able to just invest in the scene and
Speaker 2: be completely focused on that, sometimes you can't. You have
Speaker 2: to yeah, also be wearing other hats, and sometimes I
Speaker 2: think that that makes my job easier to make everybody
Speaker 2: else happy. But really, now that I'm listening to myself,
Speaker 2: I like, I'm just people placing and making people.
Speaker 1: But I think it's both your thanks can be.
Speaker 2: True at the same time.
Speaker 1: Yeah, they sure. Again, I think the thing about it
Speaker 1: is my natural instinct is to make sure everybody else
Speaker 1: is good first. I'm trying to learn to also make
Speaker 1: sure I'm good in that first past.
Speaker 2: Yeah.
Speaker 1: And I think there's something interesting too, right, Like, the
Speaker 1: longer you do this job, the more gratitude you have
Speaker 1: for the you know, relative success you have. Then it's
Speaker 1: like if a new kid comes on set and isn't
Speaker 1: checking on every department head, nobody expects them to. They're like,
Speaker 1: do you even know what a department head is?
Speaker 2: Yeah?
Speaker 1: But when you've been doing this as long as we have,
Speaker 1: if you don't, it's kind of like actor with an attitude,
Speaker 1: and you're like, no, I'm just I have to deliver
Speaker 1: like a two page monologue today and I'm running my
Speaker 1: lines in my head. I'm so sorry. I'm not actually
Speaker 1: not thinking about what you need. I just don't want
Speaker 1: to waste your time. Yes, So again, it's likely it's
Speaker 1: spin cycle stuff. And I think a lot about when
Speaker 1: I thought about it a lot getting ready for today,
Speaker 1: because you have such an amazing career from like Broadway
Speaker 1: to film to TV. You know, it's crazy to think
Speaker 1: that you want a Tony in twenty fifteen, like talk
Speaker 1: about the spin cycle of You've got so many irons
Speaker 1: in the fire when you look back at sort of
Speaker 1: all these spaces you've worked in and different environments, like
Speaker 1: is there a mentor who stands out to you? Is
Speaker 1: there is there a kind of advice, you know, whether
Speaker 1: it's how to stay focused as an actor or I
Speaker 1: don't know, how to like not lose your mind on location,
Speaker 1: Like what what are the standouts for you when you
Speaker 1: kind of look back and you realize what your biggest
Speaker 1: sort of inspirations or maybe nuggets of wisdom are for
Speaker 1: the for the next chapter.
Speaker 2: Well, that was really nice of you to talk about
Speaker 2: my career that way. Also, I like to say it
Speaker 2: in the mic like.
Speaker 1: This amazing, Like you have had the really amazing career. Congratulations.
Speaker 2: I'm just hey, I'm just really happy that I've gotten
Speaker 2: to work. You know, I always love when people are like, so,
Speaker 2: how did you choose this role? I'm always like, I
Speaker 2: don't know. Is that a like, you know, we answer
Speaker 2: that question a lot too, like we've chose it most
Speaker 2: of the time. Actors don't choose what they're doing most
Speaker 2: of the time. We really that's like the that would
Speaker 2: be the you know, well that is the dream some
Speaker 2: people do. And I think you, yes, you do choose
Speaker 2: the things you get to work on because you say
Speaker 2: yes or no. But you're the majority of your career
Speaker 2: is you seeking out work. And also I just think
Speaker 2: it's so rare that we get to go yes, I
Speaker 2: will bless you with my blessings. You know, it's usually
Speaker 2: like a collabor it's a collaborative art form, so I
Speaker 2: think it comes together as collaboration as well too.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I like that.
Speaker 2: So the few jobs that I have just been offered
Speaker 2: in my life, oh, it's felt like a miracle, you know.
Speaker 2: With the moment that I got to choose for the
Speaker 2: first time, it was like it also felt really scary.
Speaker 2: You're like, I get to choose, this feels crazy. But
Speaker 2: on that note, the people that I've learned from I
Speaker 2: learned from everybody that I ever work with, whether it's
Speaker 2: a good experience or a bad experience, because there's always
Speaker 2: something to learn. But I just recently got to go
Speaker 2: to James Earl Jones's memorial, which was like like theater church.
Speaker 2: It was so beautiful. It was really overwhelming, and you know,
Speaker 2: felt like the end of an era in so many ways.
Speaker 2: He felt like somebody who was just going to live
Speaker 2: forever to me, and he will live forever. The thing
Speaker 2: that he taught me while working was something that you
Speaker 2: said earlier is he was the forever student. He was
Speaker 2: always learning, he was always finding something new in the play.
Speaker 2: Up until the last weekend. He brought me and Christy Nilsen,
Speaker 2: who played my Mom, into his dressing room and he
Speaker 2: was like, I would like to try something new in
Speaker 2: the scene that comes right after you, and you know,
Speaker 2: I had an idea that he wanted to try, and
Speaker 2: we had four performances left. Wow. He would run scenes
Speaker 2: from Othello with my husband in his dressing room on
Speaker 2: Thursday afternoons that like halfway through the and he was like,
Speaker 2: I'd like to run these scenes with you. I always,
Speaker 2: you know, wanted to work on them again. I never
Speaker 2: quite cracked them. They've just always, you know, the poetry's
Speaker 2: always been a thorn in my side. There were things
Speaker 2: about that piece that he wanted to revisit, so he
Speaker 2: just like came in and worked on them. Talk about
Speaker 2: a forever student. And then the other person who also
Speaker 2: just recently passed and I thought would just live forever
Speaker 2: was Linda Lavin. She like was so such a dear
Speaker 2: friend and so funny and warm, and you know, she
Speaker 2: was such a such a legend but also such a
Speaker 2: pro And the way she would walk onto the set
Speaker 2: of a of a multicam was like ready or not,
Speaker 2: here comes mama. You know, that is her medium. And
Speaker 2: she knew like the back for hand, but she could
Speaker 2: make you laugh and still be honest at the same time.
Speaker 2: But what she taught me was, you know, I'd have
Speaker 2: a couple of rough moments here there, and I'd come
Speaker 2: in in her dressing room and we would talk about
Speaker 2: alan on together. She was a big allan on person
Speaker 2: and I'm an all on person, and we would talk
Speaker 2: about forgiveness and letting things go. And I think that's
Speaker 2: a forgiveness is something that we don't talk enough about
Speaker 2: in the workspace, whether it be our business that we're
Speaker 2: in or every workspace. You have to be able to
Speaker 2: like let go and let God and move on and
Speaker 2: forgive people and reset. You have to really be able
Speaker 2: to reset without holding on to resentment. So I would say,
Speaker 2: you know, those two were great teachers.
Speaker 1: Wow, that's so cool. And now a word from our
Speaker 1: wonderful sponsors. What made you want to shift from all
Speaker 1: these mediums to come into this new space and do
Speaker 1: happy face?
Speaker 2: Like?
Speaker 1: Where did it come from?
Speaker 2: When somebody says do you want to come to this drub?
Speaker 1: Yeah, that's one of those I know.
Speaker 2: You know, well, I'm so lucky. I've kind of been. Uh,
Speaker 2: I've been an actor who people often connect me with
Speaker 2: whatever they saw me in last which is actually like
Speaker 2: sort of the greatest gift, you know, they kind of
Speaker 2: just you know, some people think of me as Buddy
Speaker 2: and Masters of Sex, and some people are like, oh,
Speaker 2: I saw you play Missus love It and Sweeney Todd
Speaker 2: or you know, Dot and whatever. They saw me and
Speaker 2: Kikaboots or or they Sabby Positive whatever. But these are
Speaker 2: all like really different kinds of shows. Like they've all
Speaker 2: done really really different pieces tonally genre. You know, some
Speaker 2: are comedy, some are drama, and then yeah it's like
Speaker 2: a crime drama. There's levity. Michael Showalter directed it, and
Speaker 2: he's so funny and great. So he gave he really
Speaker 2: set the tone for us and gave us a breath
Speaker 2: of dark comedy, which I think was important for me.
Speaker 2: But yeah, I was, Hey, it's a fantastic true story
Speaker 2: with a great character with an incredible conflict. She's really
Speaker 2: vulnerable and cannot not be vulnerable. There's nothing better at
Speaker 2: playing a character that's just like the griven. Circumstances will
Speaker 2: just forever be complicated and uncomfortable for her. So she's
Speaker 2: going to be vulnerable.
Speaker 1: Yeah, it's like she can't hold it back.
Speaker 2: Yeah. I mean, if you had a father who was
Speaker 2: a serial killer, that would just be a conflict that
Speaker 2: just never ends.
Speaker 1: I literally can't imagine. Okay, will you tell the folks
Speaker 1: at home who are like, what are they talking about?
Speaker 1: What is Happy Face? In case they've been living under
Speaker 1: a rock, can you give them the log line?
Speaker 2: Yes, there was a real life serial killer in the
Speaker 2: nineties called the Happy Face Murderer, and his daughter came
Speaker 2: out as his daughter and has become an advocate for
Speaker 2: folks who've been touched by the trauma of true and
Speaker 2: so this is this is the telling of her story.
Speaker 2: Her story is all based on true events, but we've
Speaker 2: really wanted to be respectful of the victims involved in
Speaker 2: the real life crime. So the crime elements are fictionalized.
Speaker 1: Okay, so they're inspired by things that have happened, but
Speaker 1: then fictionalized so that it doesn't drudge up sort of
Speaker 1: historical trauma for people who've survived or for surviving family.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, And you know, one of the things that I
Speaker 2: think the show reminds us is not only are we
Speaker 2: unaware of all of the victims and the victims' families
Speaker 2: when we consume true crime, you know, of the you know,
Speaker 2: the way that we do in pop culture, me included,
Speaker 2: and why do we like to watch them? Like why
Speaker 2: do we like true crime?
Speaker 1: Right?
Speaker 2: If you think about it, it's mystery. We want to
Speaker 2: know who solved it, you know, like and who did it?
Speaker 2: And then we want to know why and how because
Speaker 2: it helps keep us safer, helps protect us from it
Speaker 2: happening to us. And then also I think one of
Speaker 2: the questions that my character and the real life Melissa
Speaker 2: grapples with is why and how and if it happened
Speaker 2: to somebody that is related to you, can it happen
Speaker 2: to you? You know? And yeah, she carries around this
Speaker 2: like bag of guilt and shame for the rest of
Speaker 2: her life because of something that her father did, not
Speaker 2: because of something she did.
Speaker 1: Yeah, what has it been like to get to know
Speaker 1: Melissa more because she is the woman that you portray
Speaker 1: have have you two been able to just sit and
Speaker 1: kind of unpack those things together or does that feel
Speaker 1: too intimate to you? And are you like I want
Speaker 1: to have a dinner, but I don't want to know,
Speaker 1: so I don't drive myself crazy, Like how do you
Speaker 1: thread that needle as a performer.
Speaker 2: Well, as you know most of the most of your information,
Speaker 2: you should hopefully be able to get from the script,
Speaker 2: and if you don't, that's when you go looking out elsewhere.
Speaker 2: So I really had everything I needed in the script.
Speaker 2: And so when we first started working, you know, our
Speaker 2: incredible showrunner jun Casicio, was like, do you want to
Speaker 2: talk to Melissa? And she's like, I also have letters.
Speaker 2: I have all the letters that her dad sent her,
Speaker 2: which are a big part of our story. Which side note,
Speaker 2: this is crazy. Jen had all of her letters, had
Speaker 2: all of Melissa's letters. Our showrunner had all of the
Speaker 2: real Melissa Moore's letters from her dad from prison in
Speaker 2: her house in Alta, Dina and her house burnt down. No,
Speaker 2: so when we started doing the press tour, she had
Speaker 2: to tell Melissa, I have to tell you all of
Speaker 2: your letters were in my house and they're gone. And
Speaker 2: Melissa was like, you know, that's actually a relief because
Speaker 2: I never knew what to do with him. This was
Speaker 2: such a conflict for me, which is really the inner struggle,
Speaker 2: the inner conflict of my character out you know, the series,
Speaker 2: not just this season is you know, what do you
Speaker 2: do when you love the memory of the man before
Speaker 2: he was the monster? You know, what do you do
Speaker 2: with that? That trauma? So how about that crazy? So anyways,
Speaker 2: I actually when I would look at those letters, I
Speaker 2: started to read some of them and I went, you know,
Speaker 2: I actually don't need to read this. It felt like
Speaker 2: I was like looking into somebody's drawers that I didn't
Speaker 2: need to look into it. And also Melissa and I
Speaker 2: actually didn't connect before, and I almost was relieved because
Speaker 2: I knew that we would connect on the other side.
Speaker 2: And during the press tour, I learned so much from
Speaker 2: her about the machine of true crime and how it
Speaker 2: affects real people and how every time one of these
Speaker 2: shows happens, how it can retraumatize, you know, families on
Speaker 2: both sides of the courthouse, and we just we learned
Speaker 2: so much from her. But I but I actually didn't
Speaker 2: need didn't need that before we started.
Speaker 1: Oh well yeah, I almost imagine it allowed you to
Speaker 1: have your own journey and experience without the pressure of
Speaker 1: trying to also carry someone else's.
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean you know you also you feel a
Speaker 2: responsibility to to share their story with compassion, and her
Speaker 2: advocacy work was really important to us. Yeah, and also
Speaker 2: she's got great empathy in the way that she talks
Speaker 2: to victims, so that was really important. But uh, that's beautiful, Yeah,
Speaker 2: wild story.
Speaker 1: Something I thought was so cool that you said talking
Speaker 1: about this was that, yes, it's a true crime show,
Speaker 1: but it's really a different kind of take. You said
Speaker 1: in another interview that it doesn't glorify the killer or
Speaker 1: show any acts of violence against women, and that was
Speaker 1: such a light bulb for me. I was like, that's
Speaker 1: so important because, whether we realize it or not, these
Speaker 1: things we show, these reenactments on so many shows, you know,
Speaker 1: in this genre, they they show things they normalize. By nature,
Speaker 1: you watch something and you become desensitized in a way,
Speaker 1: even if you're shocked or scared or whatever, do you
Speaker 1: think now that you know you're on the other side
Speaker 1: of so much of that press tour and everything. Has
Speaker 1: it made you think about the ways we approach these
Speaker 1: stories and maybe how we should think about the way
Speaker 1: we engage with true crime.
Speaker 2: It has absolutely changed the way that I consume true crime. Wow,
Speaker 2: it has. You know, we know that it's real people,
Speaker 2: but we don't know it's real people. You're not really
Speaker 2: acknowledging it. It's just another way that we're consuming entertainment.
Speaker 2: And most of the shows in this genre are through
Speaker 2: the mail lens. There are oftentimes even from the serial
Speaker 2: killer's point of view. You know, we spend a lot
Speaker 2: of time with the killer, why, how, where? And we're
Speaker 2: never really with a female point of view in this world.
Speaker 2: And then the other thing that was really unique about
Speaker 2: the show is it's a show about violence with no violence.
Speaker 2: We don't see dead bodies all over the forest. That's
Speaker 2: always a relief to not have to see a dead
Speaker 2: girl in the in the forest. You know, you do
Speaker 2: not see that on our show. You hear about it,
Speaker 2: which is maybe even sometimes more uncomfortable in some ways,
Speaker 2: but I think that there's no way around that because
Speaker 2: it's a reminder that this person did these horrific things
Speaker 2: to women, and the way he talks about them is
Speaker 2: so flippant and disgusting. But again, it's I think it's
Speaker 2: a show that is trying to give back agency to
Speaker 2: women in a in a space where men have had
Speaker 2: it all. You know, they've been the detectives, they've been
Speaker 2: the killers, and really the women have just been the
Speaker 2: victims and the family.
Speaker 1: And now for our sponsors, what was it like to
Speaker 1: unpack this stuff with Dennis Quaid because you know, he's
Speaker 1: got to play your father, which means he has to
Speaker 1: play this man you're talking about, you know, this person
Speaker 1: who speaks about women so flippantly and was so violent
Speaker 1: toward them. Like, were there ever days where he just said,
Speaker 1: I really hate this. You know, how do you as
Speaker 1: actors figure that out?
Speaker 2: He was very clear right when we started working on
Speaker 2: this that he wanted to make sure that there would
Speaker 2: be no glorification of this man. Yeah, and I think
Speaker 2: that's why he was interested in working on it, because
Speaker 2: you know, it's her story, it's not his. He's very
Speaker 2: outspoken about that when we talk about the show, He's like,
Speaker 2: this is not my story, this is Melissa's story. Yeah,
Speaker 2: And I also think the two of us had a
Speaker 2: really natural, easy chemistry. You know, I keep saying, like
Speaker 2: we always talk about the chemistry that you have with
Speaker 2: actors when you're playing like romantic scenes with them, but
Speaker 2: we forget about like you need chemistry when you're playing
Speaker 2: friends with people, and you really need a unique chemistry
Speaker 2: to play family with somebody. And they have this totally complicated,
Speaker 2: uncomfortable father daughter relationship, but it was really easy for us.
Speaker 2: It's just like you could feel that there was love
Speaker 2: right away, which was great because that's the thing that
Speaker 2: she has to fight and that's the that's the conflict.
Speaker 2: So yeah, he was He's he was such a great
Speaker 2: casting choice because he's so like charming and naturally likable
Speaker 2: and he's still really vulnerable in moments. She could have
Speaker 2: just played it like a you know, like a psychopath,
Speaker 2: but psychopaths are also complicated. That's what I'm interesting to
Speaker 2: watch well, And how.
Speaker 1: Cool to have an actor who really wanted to help
Speaker 1: an audience understand why people were charmed by this man,
Speaker 1: why it took so long probably to catch him. Why
Speaker 1: you know all of these things. It's like, weirdly, in
Speaker 1: order to do Melissa's story the service it deserves, her
Speaker 1: father has to be played well.
Speaker 2: Absolutely, Yeah, you don't understand her conflict if you don't
Speaker 2: like him a little bit. Yeah, which is also you
Speaker 2: feel uncomfortable.
Speaker 1: It makes me uncomfortab No, it makes me feel achy.
Speaker 2: Really at the end of it, it makes you question
Speaker 2: what would you do if your parent, why you're sibling,
Speaker 2: or your spouse, or your child, or your friend. What
Speaker 2: would you do if somebody did something like this?
Speaker 1: I can't imagine.
Speaker 2: You would blame a part of yourself. You would forever
Speaker 2: live with shame, You would for ever live with guilt,
Speaker 2: and you would forever want to be of service to
Speaker 2: the people that he affected and the victims' families, you know,
Speaker 2: which is what this woman has done. She's become an advocate. Yes.
Speaker 1: Absolutely, Wow, it's pretty amazing and I'm so glad that
Speaker 1: you know, despite what a strange world it is to
Speaker 1: dip into, it's been such a positive experience. I want
Speaker 1: to ask you something completely opposite for you know, our
Speaker 1: aforementioned need for levity. Yeah, it's a heavy chat.
Speaker 2: Yeah, you want to take a left turn. Two things
Speaker 2: can be true at the same time.
Speaker 1: Totally, we can be very vulnerable and also very silly.
Speaker 1: I getting away from true crime, but in the reality genre.
Speaker 1: I know you are a very big Bravo fan.
Speaker 2: Yeah, what do you want to see about?
Speaker 1: I just want to know, like what your favorite Bravo show.
Speaker 2: Is right now? Well, Beverly Hills realis of Beverly Hills
Speaker 2: is all the highlight. But I would also say I
Speaker 2: think that Summerhouse is giving us a nice run right
Speaker 2: now because the Page and Craig breakup. We've been watching
Speaker 2: it play out both in Southern Charm and now in Summerhouse.
Speaker 2: To watch it from.
Speaker 1: It goes across shows.
Speaker 2: Yeah, Craig knew nothing was happening, and then you watch
Speaker 2: Summerhouse and you're like, Craig, how did you not know?
Speaker 2: Page was clearly like not doing well last summer and
Speaker 2: not happy with you, and you had no idea there
Speaker 2: were cracks that he did not see. Also, I love
Speaker 2: New Jersey. We'll always love New Jersey, and Salt Lake
Speaker 2: City has become one of the tops. Like Salt Lake
Speaker 2: City's kind of wild.
Speaker 1: Everybody says that, but salt Lake City is so great.
Speaker 2: No, that's okay, that's okay. It's not everybody's thing. Do
Speaker 2: you watch The Traders? No? Do you watch any reality TV?
Speaker 1: I watch home shows.
Speaker 2: I watch home shows too. Hey, it's not everybody's thing.
Speaker 2: It's how I disassociate.
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. I it's one of those things
Speaker 1: that I know the world is so big that it
Speaker 1: feels daunting to start. I don't get it through friends.
Speaker 1: I know little bits and pieces of the drama. And
Speaker 1: then I do have a friend who will be like,
Speaker 1: you don't need to watch anything, but you need to
Speaker 1: watch this TikTok, so you understand what everyone on the
Speaker 1: internet is talking about.
Speaker 2: Yeah, like vander Pump rules probably. Yeah.
Speaker 1: So now I'm in this space where I'm like, but
Speaker 1: I want more. I'm scared to give it to myself
Speaker 1: because I think then I might really go down the
Speaker 1: rabbit hole. But I have a friend who's also a
Speaker 1: huge Bravo fan, who will just voice memo me catchphrases.
Speaker 2: Amazing, so that you're just up today.
Speaker 1: Yeah, on a random day, I get an in this
Speaker 1: town and it makes me laugh.
Speaker 2: I mean, the one one I feel. Well, what I
Speaker 2: will say is that I think you should maybe go
Speaker 2: back and watch Vanda Pump Rules, like the last four seasons.
Speaker 2: Oh okay, so just the last four seasons. It's a
Speaker 2: delightful treat. And it's also now It's parts of it
Speaker 2: are like being in pop culture, you know what I mean? Like, yeah,
Speaker 2: I did not want to watch The Traders, and then
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, now it's become a pop culture thing.
Speaker 2: Now I have to watch.
Speaker 1: It's kind of everywhere.
Speaker 2: Do you watch drag Race?
Speaker 1: I do?
Speaker 2: Okay, So drag Race is one that I would dip
Speaker 2: in and out of throughout the.
Speaker 1: Years, so that I was that's what I was gonna say.
Speaker 1: I get I go. Sometimes I'm all in, and then
Speaker 1: there's seasons I haven't seen. I need to really fine.
Speaker 2: I went back after I had Lucy. When you're nursing,
Speaker 2: you're kind of like stuck in one spot and sometimes
Speaker 2: you're just like, oh god, I get you. You can't
Speaker 2: really get anything done. So I was like, you know
Speaker 2: what I'm gonna get done. I'm going to watch every
Speaker 2: episode of drag Race. W that's ever happened?
Speaker 1: Oh my god? How fun?
Speaker 2: It was so so fun. It was a blast, and
Speaker 2: I'm like so up to date on drag race that
Speaker 2: I can really talk about anything related. But anyways, that
Speaker 2: was a fun one to go back and watch from
Speaker 2: the very beginning because also you know in twenty ten
Speaker 2: or nine, I don't when did it start, like two
Speaker 2: thousand and nine or something, that like glossy camera thing
Speaker 2: that they did on America's Next Top Model. It was
Speaker 2: empty at this time, so it still as MDV. You know,
Speaker 2: it's changed networks aro out the years, but uh, they
Speaker 2: have that funny like it's just so funny. And then
Speaker 2: everybody's caught like outfits that they were wearing, like their
Speaker 2: street wear was crazy.
Speaker 1: You know.
Speaker 2: Wow, fashion has changed and not that long of a time.
Speaker 2: And also it was like almost twenty years ago, what I.
Speaker 1: Know, it feels like yesterday, and also like another millennia
Speaker 1: and it's upsetting.
Speaker 2: It makes it's upsetting me, like I feel like I
Speaker 2: need to wear like low rise jeans with a with
Speaker 2: a tank top.
Speaker 1: I just think I'm never going to go back I missed.
Speaker 1: I didn't know how much I missed the top half
Speaker 1: of my pants until I got it and then was like, oh,
Speaker 1: I'm never going to give this back to you.
Speaker 2: Do you have a high butt crack?
Speaker 1: I don't think so you would know.
Speaker 2: I don't either. My best friend Craig has a very
Speaker 2: high butt crack.
Speaker 1: Oh, so he could never wear the low rise chains.
Speaker 2: It's not a good moment for him. He just always
Speaker 2: had butt crack out. Recently, I was like, your butt
Speaker 2: crack is hanging out and your pants are like you
Speaker 2: have the highest but crack of anybody I know.
Speaker 1: Oh not in a low rise.
Speaker 2: No, he just has a very high butt crack. That's
Speaker 2: just a fun thing to look out for. Do you
Speaker 2: have a high but crack or a low book crack?
Speaker 1: It feels like a late night infomercial. You can sue.
Speaker 2: You know, we should put it in We should put
Speaker 2: it in sky Mall. Some underwear for people with high
Speaker 2: butt cracks. Yes, do a high but crack. We've got
Speaker 2: some nich So Niche.
Speaker 1: It's probably a billion dollar idea. You just did a
Speaker 1: Judy Garland puppet impression? Yes, and watch What Happens Live.
Speaker 2: It's so weird.
Speaker 1: How long have you been a puppeteer?
Speaker 2: This was a character that was created in New World Plaza?
Speaker 1: How did you do?
Speaker 2: You know how it? Where it happened? Somehow? I was
Speaker 2: with my friends and we were like somebody was like,
Speaker 2: you do the worst impression of Liza Minelli I've ever seen,
Speaker 2: And I was like, I know, you know, my lies
Speaker 2: of Menelli impression is like if puppet Judy came back
Speaker 2: from the dead of Judy, that carlt came back from
Speaker 2: the dead as the puppet. That's my That's what my
Speaker 2: lies of Menelli is. It's really came from Liza. Really,
Speaker 2: the origin story of puppet Judy is.
Speaker 1: Liza again, niche again. I know, I love it.
Speaker 2: That's some game magic right there.
Speaker 1: It sure is. Oh my god, I want to be
Speaker 1: in the room for the next one.
Speaker 3: Well, Judy, Judy makes an appearance, loves to making appearance.
Speaker 3: She like she's had a rap.
Speaker 1: I was just going to say, it sounds like Judy
Speaker 1: has really been hitting the watch what Happens Live bar
Speaker 1: back there mixing martinis for her.
Speaker 2: Is sweet sweet? Was It was like it was like
Speaker 2: the Judy Garland show, Judy, you know, like last five years, Judy,
Speaker 2: Poor Judy, poor, poor sweet Judy, poor Judy. Oh I
Speaker 2: know it makes me the last five years Judy. What
Speaker 2: if Judy did the last five years? Nobody wants to
Speaker 2: see that.
Speaker 1: Nobody wants to see it, put it away, put it away. Well,
Speaker 1: the show is amazing. There's so many wonderful things happening
Speaker 1: in your life. You probably have a million things coming
Speaker 1: down the pipeline. What when you kind of look around
Speaker 1: and think about the rest of the year, what feels
Speaker 1: like you're working progress.
Speaker 2: My work in progress is I would say, I'm making
Speaker 2: sure that I say yes to myself and take care
Speaker 2: of myself. So I'm getting a second chance at being
Speaker 2: a mom with a newborn again. You know, I had
Speaker 2: my little boy eight years ago. And when you have
Speaker 2: a little person that you're taking care of, not just
Speaker 2: a little person, it can be any person in your
Speaker 2: life that you're taking care of. If you have a partner,
Speaker 2: if you have a you know, if you have a roommate. Like,
Speaker 2: we take a lot of care of a lot of people,
Speaker 2: but yeah, one of those people that doesn't take is
Speaker 2: good of care of myself. And what I mean by
Speaker 2: that is like, I'm good at taking my vitamins and
Speaker 2: drinking my water, but I don't always say what I need.
Speaker 2: And I just took something from our conversation about you saying,
Speaker 2: you know, I'm trying to learn, and I'm learning and
Speaker 2: learning every day and talking about James and talking about
Speaker 2: Sweet Linda and kind of the students of life not
Speaker 2: just our craft that they were. Like. The lesson that
Speaker 2: I take away from this conversation today was when you
Speaker 2: were asking me about my process and I said, well,
Speaker 2: I basically put everybody first and make sure that it
Speaker 2: feels good for everybody else before it feels good for myself.
Speaker 2: So that's something I'm working on. It's like telling people
Speaker 2: what I need and telling myself what I need because
Speaker 2: I think that's actually something I'm missing. So yeah, I
Speaker 2: think that's going to be kind of one of the
Speaker 2: goals of the year. You know, we've got to take
Speaker 2: care of mama.
Speaker 1: You gotta take care of put your oxygen mask on
Speaker 1: before your neighbor.
Speaker 2: Mama. Mama, Mama, Mama. We're seeing Gypsy this week. Actually,
Speaker 2: on that note, I know can't wait. It's so excited.
Speaker 2: It's my favorite. It's one of my favorite favorite shows.
Speaker 2: I think it's in my top five very favorite shows.
Speaker 1: I have not seen it in so long that you're
Speaker 1: making me realize I should probably go see.
Speaker 2: Yes new ress production is I can't wait to see
Speaker 2: awdre be Mama ready or not? Here come.
Speaker 1: Oh, it's going to be amazing.
Speaker 2: Well let's go see some theater and for you for
Speaker 2: the next year.
Speaker 1: Oh my goodness. I don't totally No, it's like.
Speaker 2: A you know, we're in there like I don't know
Speaker 2: what's happening moment.
Speaker 1: Well we've been in the I don't know what's happened.
Speaker 1: I know, as in our like industry for so many years.
Speaker 2: Now I'm like, oh, guys, try not to be in
Speaker 2: fear space.
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'm trying to be in abundance. I have a
Speaker 1: thing in development with some friends. I am working on
Speaker 1: getting this like really funny queer rom com off the
Speaker 1: ground with a great comedian that I know. I have
Speaker 1: a movie coming out in June. And yeah, and I'm
Speaker 1: going to do like my favorite nerdy time. I'm guest
Speaker 1: directing a documentary film festival.
Speaker 2: Memorial Dazing. Yeah. So cool.
Speaker 1: So I'm like very amped about that. And yeah, just
Speaker 1: kind of leaning into the to your point, like to
Speaker 1: things that feel joyful and being excited about, like the rooms,
Speaker 1: the people, the learning. I think the thing I've begun
Speaker 1: learning about how obsessed with work and productivity I learned
Speaker 1: to be when it became a badge of honor because
Speaker 1: I was working on a show and like seventeen hour
Speaker 1: days were exhausting, so we had to be convinced they
Speaker 1: were amazing and like a proof of our dedication.
Speaker 2: You know.
Speaker 1: Now I'm starting to try to learn how to really
Speaker 1: love my days even when they're not like overly adrenalized
Speaker 1: and exhausting.
Speaker 2: Yeah, and so.
Speaker 1: I'm overwhelmed by all the things I'm doing in a way,
Speaker 1: but I also realize, you know, at six o'clock on
Speaker 1: many days now, I can turn it off, and I
Speaker 1: just have never had that before, And I'm trying to
Speaker 1: think of that as a privilege rather than to be
Speaker 1: worried that I'm not doing enough.
Speaker 2: Amen. Yeah, Yes, enjoy six o'clock. Go to go on
Speaker 2: and buy fifty dollars worth of dinner.
Speaker 1: Hottest club in La. Did you see that TikTok that
Speaker 1: went around about the twenty dollars strawberry single strawberry at
Speaker 1: Aralon in a plastic contention? I was like, we've jumped
Speaker 1: the shark.
Speaker 2: You were like, this is crazy, We've jumped the shark.
Speaker 2: What's it?
Speaker 1: Daste like, well, yeah, I was like, clearly I want one,
Speaker 1: but I'm not going to be that personal. It's like,
Speaker 1: I've also always wanted to go to space, but I'm
Speaker 1: not going for eleven minutes in the middle of a recession.
Speaker 2: Totally agree with you. We get to the thank you
Speaker 2: too for claiming that. It's through that thank you, like,
Speaker 2: what are we doing?
Speaker 1: What are we doing?
Speaker 2: I completely agree. It feels like upside down world. Yes
Speaker 2: I do. There are times I love you Air One,
Speaker 2: but when I go to your produce section, I'm like,
Speaker 2: I'll see you later. I will go get the other things,
Speaker 2: but I will go get that weird key lime pie
Speaker 2: that's made out of coconut and I don't know how
Speaker 2: it tastes like key lime pie, but it has an
Speaker 2: aftertaste that reminds you that it's not key lime pie.
Speaker 2: But I will not buy your fifteen dollars grapes. I know.
Speaker 1: It's like there are things that I really want from there.
Speaker 1: And then I also am the person that's like, I'm
Speaker 1: not going to pay that for blueberries. I'll go to
Speaker 1: the farmer's market on Sunday.
Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, for sure, Yeah, I know.
Speaker 1: And that's where my duty comes out. I'm not paying
Speaker 1: for those berries.
Speaker 3: She would have been like bears, I don't even know
Speaker 3: what we have. Beers A beers is nineteen four defect.
Speaker 1: I live on vodka and a prayer.
Speaker 2: That's right.
Speaker 1: Volcano my Canada day, Oh my god, I love it.
Speaker 1: Thank you for today, Congrats on the show. I'm amped
Speaker 1: for you.
Speaker 2: Thank you so much. Thank you for having me, thank
Speaker 2: you for inviting me into your magic space.
Speaker 1: Oh you, sweet soul.