WEBVTT - Tramell Tillman 0:00:00.160 --> 0:00:02.040 I need to let my hair down a little bit. 0:00:02.080 --> 0:00:04.760 I need to let loose. I'm gonna take my tie 0:00:04.800 --> 0:00:07.200 off and I'm gonna put on this turtleneck because I 0:00:07.240 --> 0:00:09.560 like this turtleneck. I look good in this turtleneck. It 0:00:09.640 --> 0:00:12.639 helps me move, you know, it helps you move obviously, 0:00:12.680 --> 0:00:15.600 and he let's go. Yeah. Yeah, it's a secret power. 0:00:15.760 --> 0:00:26.520 It's a it's a stretchable fabric. Oh yeah, it's hi. 0:00:26.920 --> 0:00:29.400 My name Mr Melt Tillman and I played mill Check 0:00:29.600 --> 0:00:41.080 on Severn. Hi everybody, and welcome back as always too 0:00:41.400 --> 0:00:45.040 off the beat. I am your host Brian baum Gartner, 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:50.840 and oh am my giddy today I am. I am 0:00:50.960 --> 0:00:54.680 very excited. Um. You should know this that recently I 0:00:54.760 --> 0:01:00.120 have become obsessed with my new favorite show, Severance on 0:01:00.320 --> 0:01:04.360 Apple TV Plus. Now. If you're not familiar with Severance, one, 0:01:04.400 --> 0:01:07.680 you should be. But two. It's about a tech company 0:01:07.800 --> 0:01:13.880 called Lumen that severs employees work and home lives, essentially 0:01:13.920 --> 0:01:19.319 creating two versions of well, one person. It's a very 0:01:19.360 --> 0:01:24.680 fascinating and interesting take on office life, and man, it 0:01:24.720 --> 0:01:29.640 goes places that you would never expect, which brings me 0:01:29.920 --> 0:01:35.920 to why I'm giddy. Today's guest, the Amazing Trammel Tillman. 0:01:36.160 --> 0:01:41.160 Now he plays the super creepy but somehow charming lumen 0:01:41.240 --> 0:01:45.760 supervisor Seth mill Check his character is. He has some 0:01:45.800 --> 0:01:48.280 of the most interesting scenes in the whole series. And 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:51.640 I am not gonna spoil too much today, but if 0:01:51.680 --> 0:01:55.640 you don't want to know anything about anything that happens 0:01:55.640 --> 0:01:58.080 in the show, maybe go watch it and then come 0:01:58.120 --> 0:02:01.160 back and then you'll run back here to listen to 0:02:01.200 --> 0:02:05.720 this episode. We dive into severance casting filming some of 0:02:05.760 --> 0:02:11.079 those iconic scenes. Did anyone say m d E? And 0:02:11.320 --> 0:02:14.720 we discuss the optics and design of the show and 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:18.600 so much more. We'll also get into Trammel's background and 0:02:18.720 --> 0:02:23.200 why he believes that art changes lives. It is my 0:02:23.560 --> 0:02:29.560 sincere pleasure to introduce to all of you my new bestie, 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:39.280 Trammel Tillman. Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and 0:02:39.360 --> 0:02:45.640 Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker Cookie at every month left 0:02:45.840 --> 0:03:02.680 over from the nut before travel. What is happening, my friend? 0:03:02.800 --> 0:03:08.640 What's going on? I am so happy that you're here. 0:03:09.560 --> 0:03:14.240 I've come clean about something. I love this show so much. 0:03:14.680 --> 0:03:19.800 I cannot tell you how much I was traveling and 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:22.360 I finished the series, and I'm like, at thirty five, 0:03:22.360 --> 0:03:26.000 thou feet and I start firing off this missive email, 0:03:26.280 --> 0:03:29.960 I'm like, we gotta get tromel. I told Wendy Malick, 0:03:30.120 --> 0:03:33.639 the genius Wendy Malick and John Ham and some people 0:03:33.720 --> 0:03:36.560 that I've had the opportunity to work with before and know, 0:03:37.400 --> 0:03:40.200 and I told them that I started this podcast because 0:03:40.240 --> 0:03:42.640 I wanted to talk to them like I wanted. I 0:03:42.680 --> 0:03:46.120 wanted to get really deep in terms of their process 0:03:46.200 --> 0:03:49.440 and their story and and the moments that define them. 0:03:49.480 --> 0:03:52.320 But really it's I wanted to talk to you. I 0:03:52.360 --> 0:03:58.160 didn't know it at the time, but a little bit, 0:03:58.440 --> 0:04:03.920 but after after after seeing Severance, it was really about 0:04:03.960 --> 0:04:07.640 about you. We're gonna talk plenty about Severance, but I 0:04:07.680 --> 0:04:10.400 really wanted to learn a little bit about you and 0:04:10.640 --> 0:04:14.680 what sort of helped define you in in your earlier 0:04:14.760 --> 0:04:16.880 life and in your career and how you sort of 0:04:16.960 --> 0:04:20.719 got to where you are today. I understand you grew 0:04:20.760 --> 0:04:24.240 up in in Maryland? Is that right? I did? I did. 0:04:24.320 --> 0:04:27.200 I grew up in Largo, Maryland, UM, which is in 0:04:27.440 --> 0:04:31.120 p g County, and at the time in the eighties, 0:04:31.160 --> 0:04:35.119 it's was one of the richest black counties in America, 0:04:35.200 --> 0:04:39.560 and there's still pockets of PG County that that hold 0:04:39.760 --> 0:04:46.120 a high population of black affluents in that area. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:04:46.279 --> 0:04:48.320 there's a hop, skip and a jump into d C 0:04:48.920 --> 0:04:53.160 from d C. Okay, a lot of politicians there, tons. 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.640 I mean, I was probably neighbors with a few of them, 0:04:55.680 --> 0:05:00.680 you know, like so far away. You know, there's a 0:05:00.720 --> 0:05:03.680 scene of a lot of excellence, if you will, in 0:05:03.720 --> 0:05:08.960 that community. I was neighbors with entrepreneurs and around principles 0:05:09.000 --> 0:05:12.479 and teachers, educators, you know, were like so everything was 0:05:12.520 --> 0:05:17.880 about growth, expansion and excellence. Okay, when you were ten 0:05:17.960 --> 0:05:21.200 years old, this is how the story goes. You were 0:05:21.200 --> 0:05:25.640 in a church Christmas production and you first got the 0:05:25.680 --> 0:05:28.679 bug about being an actor. Is that right? That's true. 0:05:29.040 --> 0:05:32.760 That's true. I was a very shy kid, and my 0:05:32.800 --> 0:05:37.920 mom recognized talent that I have of performing, and I 0:05:37.920 --> 0:05:42.320 would always perform by myself alone. She thought that it 0:05:42.400 --> 0:05:44.200 was very important for me to be involved in the 0:05:44.279 --> 0:05:46.680 church because she grew up in the church as did 0:05:46.800 --> 0:05:50.960 my father. There was an opportunity for her to be 0:05:51.040 --> 0:05:53.080 a part of a play, and she felt this was 0:05:53.360 --> 0:05:56.560 wonderful because there's so many characters in my family, and 0:05:56.720 --> 0:05:59.160 we all liked the Spotlight in one way or the other, 0:05:59.240 --> 0:06:03.880 whether or not we admit it, you know, um. And 0:06:03.960 --> 0:06:07.000 with that, they needed someone to play her son, and 0:06:07.040 --> 0:06:12.320 what better person to play her son than so right exactly? 0:06:12.400 --> 0:06:16.080 You know, I was kicking and screaming, you know, Brian, 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.680 I did not want to do it. I cried, I 0:06:18.800 --> 0:06:23.200 boo hooed, But there was nowhere around it. Can't tell mom, no, 0:06:23.560 --> 0:06:26.799 especially age of ten. And I got on that stage 0:06:27.360 --> 0:06:29.719 and I had one line in one direction to say 0:06:29.760 --> 0:06:32.920 hello and sit on the couch. And from that moment 0:06:33.080 --> 0:06:37.160 it clicked. Really I didn't know what this thing was 0:06:37.240 --> 0:06:39.760 that that got me, but it did right then in 0:06:39.800 --> 0:06:41.400 the moment, and I wanted to do more of it. 0:06:41.720 --> 0:06:45.120 So then did you start auditioning for plays? You started 0:06:45.160 --> 0:06:48.800 doing plays as a young person. I continue within the church. 0:06:49.600 --> 0:06:51.480 I got my start in the church, doing a lot 0:06:51.520 --> 0:06:56.080 of theater, and eventually, you know, veering out and doing 0:06:56.680 --> 0:07:00.800 professional served as an extra on the wire. Yes you 0:07:00.839 --> 0:07:05.120 remember that show, well, yes, I remember that show. It's 0:07:05.160 --> 0:07:07.839 one of the one of the greatest shows of all time. 0:07:08.480 --> 0:07:12.120 How old were you when that happen? Yeah, I was 0:07:12.160 --> 0:07:14.640 about that age, I was about that age, I sat 0:07:14.800 --> 0:07:18.880 probably two rolls behind Wendell Pierce. It was a scene 0:07:19.440 --> 0:07:22.080 at a baseball game, you know. Wendell Pierce and I 0:07:22.120 --> 0:07:24.320 cannot remember the other actors he was sitting next to, 0:07:24.400 --> 0:07:27.600 but they were having a conversation and I was thinking, 0:07:27.720 --> 0:07:32.000 I'm sitting a couple of rows behind Wendel Pierce. Is 0:07:32.040 --> 0:07:36.360 that this is really cool? And tried not to still 0:07:36.360 --> 0:07:44.000 focus actors work. Yeah, it's amazing how quickly you You're 0:07:44.040 --> 0:07:47.160 no longer sitting two rows behind Wendell Pierce. If you can, 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:53.960 if you're a distraction, I mean right right absolutely? Now 0:07:54.040 --> 0:07:59.600 I read you. You ended up going to Xavier University 0:08:00.080 --> 0:08:06.680 there in Louisiana. You were there when Hurricane Katrina decimated 0:08:06.840 --> 0:08:09.760 the city, which I want to talk about. But you 0:08:09.840 --> 0:08:13.200 were studying to become an orthopedic surgeon. Is this is this? 0:08:13.400 --> 0:08:16.480 Is this right? Yes? That is correct. So at this 0:08:16.520 --> 0:08:19.840 point you had given up, or at least temporarily put 0:08:19.880 --> 0:08:22.480 on hold, your desire to be an actor, and you 0:08:22.520 --> 0:08:25.800 wanted to be a smarty pants basically did that I 0:08:25.840 --> 0:08:29.280 wanted to be at Yeah? Well, the thing was, I 0:08:29.320 --> 0:08:31.000 was told at a young age that I would never 0:08:31.040 --> 0:08:33.720 make it. You know, they said that only two percent 0:08:34.240 --> 0:08:38.840 of actors or people aspiring to become actors have a 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.680 thriving career in it. And I didn't want to wait 0:08:41.720 --> 0:08:44.160 tables for the rest of my life. That's what I 0:08:44.240 --> 0:08:48.559 was told. I was encouraged to find a career that 0:08:48.840 --> 0:08:55.199 would foster a steady financial lifestyle. So I was told 0:08:55.240 --> 0:09:00.920 that I should get into computers, into business, law, or medicine. 0:09:01.720 --> 0:09:04.760 I enjoyed science. I thought it was really cool. I 0:09:04.840 --> 0:09:07.360 love the idea of helping people, so that was the 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:10.560 route that I figured I would go in. And I 0:09:10.600 --> 0:09:15.000 was around so many doctors, especially black doctors, and they 0:09:15.040 --> 0:09:20.280 were always the pinnacle of success in the community. So 0:09:20.840 --> 0:09:22.640 that was the route I wanted to go in, or 0:09:22.679 --> 0:09:26.200 so I thought. But what was interesting, Brian, is that 0:09:26.760 --> 0:09:30.040 performing was always there. You know, even when I was 0:09:30.080 --> 0:09:32.280 in high school, I was still performing. When I was 0:09:32.320 --> 0:09:36.000 at Xavier University, I got sucked into doing a musical, 0:09:36.240 --> 0:09:41.520 a random musical, like for a play at Xavier University. 0:09:41.840 --> 0:09:44.840 I still very much loved it, but I knew that 0:09:44.920 --> 0:09:47.480 it wasn't something that was gonna feed me financially, and 0:09:47.520 --> 0:09:50.200 I was scared to walk into it. So I said, 0:09:50.240 --> 0:09:53.080 you know, being a doctor isn't so bad it could 0:09:53.280 --> 0:09:59.360 you know, it's not like it's hard, right, So that's 0:09:59.400 --> 0:10:02.480 the easiest path you could take, right, Like, what, it's 0:10:02.520 --> 0:10:06.439 no problem totally. It's funny. My dad was a doctor, 0:10:06.520 --> 0:10:11.120 and so for me it was the reverse. I was like, yeah, 0:10:11.440 --> 0:10:14.320 that seems like a lot of school. I don't know, 0:10:14.480 --> 0:10:17.600 that seems like that seems like a lot of school. 0:10:18.160 --> 0:10:20.120 And I did not have the interest in science, and 0:10:20.160 --> 0:10:23.760 it sounds like you did. So yeah, I decided pretty 0:10:23.760 --> 0:10:27.160 young that that was not for me. So explained to 0:10:27.160 --> 0:10:29.880 me what happened, So the hurricane had did Xavier shut 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:32.320 down or did you decide you needed to get out 0:10:32.320 --> 0:10:35.719 of there? Or what happened? So, okay, we gotta back up. 0:10:35.760 --> 0:10:39.040 So there's a whole meeting story within that. So while 0:10:39.040 --> 0:10:42.079 I was at Xavier University, I was studying biology PREMIT. 0:10:42.760 --> 0:10:46.640 I was doing better in biology PREMIT than many of 0:10:46.640 --> 0:10:50.760 my colleagues who are doctors. Now that's right, that's that's wild. 0:10:51.000 --> 0:10:54.400 But I hated chemistry LAP. I had a kim lab 0:10:54.520 --> 0:10:56.400 and I hated it. I did not want to do this. 0:10:56.800 --> 0:10:58.720 And the best thing about kim lab was the fact 0:10:58.720 --> 0:11:02.600 that I could watch the color's check age. So from 0:11:02.679 --> 0:11:05.840 there I had decided that there's there's gotta be something 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:08.200 else that I can do. But then I remembered in 0:11:08.280 --> 0:11:12.400 high school I was very involved in like doing social events, 0:11:12.480 --> 0:11:15.240 so I figured, okay, publicity. So I changed my major 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:18.720 into mass communications, so I would figure that I would 0:11:18.720 --> 0:11:21.680 get into advertising and publicity and so and so forth 0:11:21.720 --> 0:11:25.720 and so on. Unfortunately, we hit a financial snag. My 0:11:25.800 --> 0:11:28.240 mom had gave me a phone call and said, I 0:11:28.280 --> 0:11:31.440 can no longer help you financially with college because we 0:11:31.520 --> 0:11:35.720 lost our home, homeless work closed, basically we lost everything. 0:11:36.360 --> 0:11:39.559 With that, I had to find a way to finance school. 0:11:40.000 --> 0:11:42.920 Xavier University, while it's a wonderful university, was just so 0:11:43.040 --> 0:11:47.000 out of my pocket because it's a private Catholic school, 0:11:47.160 --> 0:11:50.679 you know. So my mom suggested, along with my sister 0:11:50.720 --> 0:11:54.160 who was in Mississippi, Jackson, Mississippi, to go to Jackson 0:11:54.240 --> 0:11:56.800 State because they have a communications program you could be 0:11:56.800 --> 0:12:00.240 a part of and it's cheaper. I was hesitant about that. 0:12:00.440 --> 0:12:02.920 I wanted to go to Howard University. I got accepted 0:12:02.960 --> 0:12:05.319 into Howard University, but I didn't get a big enough 0:12:05.360 --> 0:12:10.200 scholarship to go to Howard University. So right before Katrina hit. 0:12:10.400 --> 0:12:13.079 I said, you know, I'll go to Jackson State. I'll 0:12:13.120 --> 0:12:14.679 give it a year, but then I'm gonna come back 0:12:14.679 --> 0:12:17.600 to Xavier because I really love it there. So I 0:12:17.679 --> 0:12:21.080 ended up going to Jackson State. Hurricane Katrina came along, 0:12:21.480 --> 0:12:25.440 and it not only hit Xavier, not only hit New Orleans, 0:12:25.440 --> 0:12:28.880 but it came up to Jackson, Mississippi. So it's almost 0:12:28.880 --> 0:12:31.840 like the storm just followed me right on up, you know. 0:12:32.559 --> 0:12:35.559 And that's not funny. I don't know why I laughed 0:12:35.559 --> 0:12:40.600 at that. It was the image. It was yeah, yeah, yeah, 0:12:40.679 --> 0:12:46.360 yeah yeah, but it was devastating. Was also incredibly ironic. 0:12:46.480 --> 0:12:48.440 And what was interesting is that while I was at 0:12:48.480 --> 0:12:52.600 Jackson State, there was some students that came up to 0:12:52.720 --> 0:12:56.319 Jackson State from Xavier to continue their education because they 0:12:56.320 --> 0:12:59.640 were offering those kind of programs across Xavier students. They 0:12:59.640 --> 0:13:03.160 were most sister schools that were set up. You know, 0:13:03.160 --> 0:13:05.760 there are people who went to Brown, Harvard, you know, 0:13:05.840 --> 0:13:09.040 Howard and the like. So I had friends from Xavier 0:13:09.160 --> 0:13:13.560 that were experiencing Jackson State along with me, which made 0:13:13.559 --> 0:13:15.560 it a great time. And I ended up falling in 0:13:15.600 --> 0:13:18.800 love with Jackson State and have such an appreciation for 0:13:18.880 --> 0:13:21.960 the school and the education the environment there. Yeah, and 0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.240 you graduated from there. I did. I graduated summa cum 0:13:25.280 --> 0:13:29.520 laude Jackson State University. See there's this body pants thing again. 0:13:29.600 --> 0:13:36.440 I knew it. Yeah. So you graduate from Jackson State 0:13:37.280 --> 0:13:41.640 with your mass communications degree and then what you decide 0:13:41.960 --> 0:13:45.240 that maybe you're not done with acting. No, it's still there. 0:13:45.440 --> 0:13:48.000 The acting bug is is still around. And while I 0:13:48.040 --> 0:13:50.599 was while I was that Jackson State, I was connected 0:13:50.640 --> 0:13:54.640 to the head of the acting department, Dr Mark G. Henderson. 0:13:54.920 --> 0:14:00.520 And I remember while I was doing a speech competition 0:14:00.600 --> 0:14:03.840 with my fraternity, he came along and helped me with 0:14:04.000 --> 0:14:07.440 the speech competition, ended up winning the competition. I'm under 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:10.360 his tutelage, and he asked me, why are you not 0:14:10.559 --> 0:14:13.040 part of the drama program here at Jackson State. And 0:14:13.120 --> 0:14:16.640 at that time, Brian, because I believed and getting heavily involved. 0:14:16.679 --> 0:14:18.600 That was my upbringing to get involved as much as 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:21.080 you can. I was in s g A. I was 0:14:21.160 --> 0:14:24.440 part of the Out five Fraternity Incorporated organization. I was 0:14:24.520 --> 0:14:26.840 part of the Kids College Freedom School projects, so I 0:14:26.920 --> 0:14:29.400 was working with kids. I also had part time jobs. 0:14:29.440 --> 0:14:31.600 I had so much going on, I didn't have time 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.840 to do any acting and I was involved in the 0:14:34.880 --> 0:14:38.240 church at Jackson, Mississippi, New Horizon Church. You know, I 0:14:38.280 --> 0:14:42.080 don't have time. What When I graduated, I got offered 0:14:42.080 --> 0:14:45.240 a job working with kids college Freedom School Project, and 0:14:45.280 --> 0:14:49.320 as wonderful as those kids were, I hated being there. 0:14:49.720 --> 0:14:52.480 And I hated being there because I wasn't doing what 0:14:52.680 --> 0:14:54.960 I love to do. And what I love to do 0:14:55.720 --> 0:15:00.600 was form, tell stories, act, seeing dance. Right. So, I 0:15:00.640 --> 0:15:03.280 remember having a conversation with Dr Mark G. Henderson and 0:15:03.320 --> 0:15:05.760 he sat me down and he said, Trammel, you don't 0:15:05.760 --> 0:15:08.040 look happy. Are you happy? I said no, Why are 0:15:08.040 --> 0:15:10.280 you not happy? He asked me, and he said, if 0:15:10.280 --> 0:15:12.240 I had to wager our guest, I don't think that 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:13.920 you are doing the thing that you love to do. 0:15:14.000 --> 0:15:17.680 You light up when it comes to performing. And I said, well, 0:15:17.880 --> 0:15:19.440 I can't do this. I'm not gonna have the money 0:15:19.440 --> 0:15:20.840 for this. I'm not going to have this. I'm not 0:15:20.840 --> 0:15:23.520 talented enough. I don't you know all of these excuses. 0:15:23.720 --> 0:15:26.240 And then he said, are you done? And I said, yes, 0:15:28.400 --> 0:15:30.600 Go do the thing that you love to do. Go 0:15:30.760 --> 0:15:32.800 do the thing that you love to do, and everything 0:15:32.800 --> 0:15:35.320 else will fall into place. And he encouraged me to 0:15:35.320 --> 0:15:37.280 go to grad school. And in order to getting grad 0:15:37.320 --> 0:15:40.160 school you have to audition, right, So then in order 0:15:40.200 --> 0:15:42.640 to audition, I was a part of urda's which is 0:15:42.680 --> 0:15:48.600 the United Residents Theater Association casting call for graduate schools. 0:15:49.000 --> 0:15:52.760 So I auditioned for that in Chicago. Ended up getting 0:15:52.760 --> 0:15:55.440 a lot of attention from the grad school programs there, 0:15:55.800 --> 0:15:59.000 got the attention from the University of Iowa, received a 0:15:59.040 --> 0:16:02.080 full scholarship to go to the University of Iowa. At 0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:05.200 the last minute, Brian, when I was supposed to get 0:16:05.240 --> 0:16:07.200 on the plane to leave or get in the car 0:16:07.240 --> 0:16:08.320 and leave, I don't even know how I was going 0:16:08.360 --> 0:16:12.040 to get to Iowa. The financial portion fell through, and 0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.080 it wasn't from the institution what it was. It was 0:16:15.120 --> 0:16:17.040 for me. All of a sudden, like all the money 0:16:17.120 --> 0:16:21.360 was gone. I called the head of the program at 0:16:21.360 --> 0:16:23.760 the University of Iowa and said, listen, this is my situation. 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:25.920 He said, we've gave We've given you all the money 0:16:25.960 --> 0:16:27.880 we can give you. I don't know how we can 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:30.240 help you. He asked me, said Terrell, are you coming? 0:16:30.520 --> 0:16:31.880 And I said, I don't know how to get there. 0:16:32.240 --> 0:16:34.720 He said, well, I have to resend the offer. So 0:16:35.240 --> 0:16:40.760 after the entire church community congratulated me on leaving to 0:16:40.760 --> 0:16:44.320 go the University of Iowa. I ended up not going 0:16:44.400 --> 0:16:47.680 to the University of Iowa and just stayed in Jackson, 0:16:47.680 --> 0:16:52.160 Mississippi and worked and worked and worked until I could 0:16:52.160 --> 0:16:54.800 have enough money to get out of Jackson, Mississippi to 0:16:54.840 --> 0:16:57.880 go pursue my dreams on another level. But it gave 0:16:57.920 --> 0:17:01.440 me an opportunity, Brian, because that I was able to 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.680 work with New Stage Theater to get some regional theater credits. 0:17:04.920 --> 0:17:07.600 I was able to work with j V Productions and 0:17:07.640 --> 0:17:12.000 they offered me more training and more the legs to 0:17:12.160 --> 0:17:16.880 grow and find to my craft experience experience, Yes, yeah, 0:17:16.960 --> 0:17:18.719 And how long were you there? How how long did 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.000 you end up done staying in Jackson. I got there 0:17:21.040 --> 0:17:23.520 two thousand five and I left in two thousand eleven. 0:17:23.560 --> 0:17:26.200 And you went to Tennessee and I went to Tennessee. 0:17:26.560 --> 0:17:30.200 And I went to Tennessee because the head of acting 0:17:30.240 --> 0:17:34.159 there saw me at Urda's in two thousand nine and 0:17:34.440 --> 0:17:38.480 thought I was too green, which he was right. I 0:17:38.520 --> 0:17:40.520 didn't want to admit a time, but he was right. 0:17:41.359 --> 0:17:45.760 He reached out to me early two thousand eleven and said, hey, 0:17:45.840 --> 0:17:47.719 we may I don't know if you remember me from 0:17:47.720 --> 0:17:49.679 the University of Tennessee, but we may have a slot 0:17:49.760 --> 0:17:53.520 for you. I said, Hey, okay, let's go. This is 0:17:53.560 --> 0:17:55.920 my opportunity. It's my ticket to move on and get 0:17:55.960 --> 0:17:59.000 and get some grad food training. Two weeks go by, 0:17:59.080 --> 0:18:01.320 I didn't hear from him. He then reaches out and 0:18:01.359 --> 0:18:04.480 says to me, Oh, I'm sorry, the position has been filled. 0:18:04.520 --> 0:18:07.640 We don't have a slot for you. So I'm devastated. 0:18:08.040 --> 0:18:10.560 So that I get I put myself on this plan, Brian, 0:18:10.640 --> 0:18:12.800 I said, this is what I'm gonna do. I am 0:18:12.840 --> 0:18:15.320 gonna save up money and I'm gonna put myself on 0:18:15.400 --> 0:18:17.960 a little tour. I'm gonna go to New York. I'm 0:18:18.000 --> 0:18:20.359 gonna go to Atlanta, I'm gonna go to New Orleans, 0:18:20.440 --> 0:18:23.280 and I'm gonna submit my resume and just see what happens. 0:18:23.560 --> 0:18:26.399 So I'm saving I'm taking jobs after jobs after jobs 0:18:26.400 --> 0:18:30.639 after job, and would you believe June of two thousand 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:34.439 and eleven, who calls me the head of acting at 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:40.879 the University of Tennessee. Edie says to me, Hi, I 0:18:40.920 --> 0:18:44.960 don't know if you remember me, but I'm the head 0:18:45.000 --> 0:18:47.920 of acting at the University Tennessee. I've been thinking about 0:18:47.960 --> 0:18:50.040 you for six months. What do you mean if I 0:18:50.119 --> 0:18:56.639 remember you, Edie said. He said, listen, I know I 0:18:56.720 --> 0:18:59.680 kind of pulled your leg earlier, but I'm serious. We 0:18:59.760 --> 0:19:03.280 do a slot. You would start in the fall eleven. 0:19:03.640 --> 0:19:07.920 If you're interested, come on up to Tennessee and let's 0:19:07.920 --> 0:19:10.520 go from there and audition and let's go from there. 0:19:10.880 --> 0:19:12.720 So I said, you know what, let's give it a shot. 0:19:13.880 --> 0:19:17.200 And in July I went up there and I auditioned 0:19:17.840 --> 0:19:20.480 and they offered me a slot right then on the spot. 0:19:20.760 --> 0:19:41.679 That's awesome. M What did grad school gift to you? 0:19:42.240 --> 0:19:46.520 I would say confidence. I would say the development of 0:19:46.560 --> 0:19:50.639 a thick skin. Because my graduate program was connected to 0:19:51.040 --> 0:19:53.879 the Clarence Brown Theater, so it's a regional theater and 0:19:54.000 --> 0:19:58.520 part of their mission is to connect students with professional artists. 0:19:58.560 --> 0:20:02.240 So we had the opportunity to work with professional artists 0:20:02.240 --> 0:20:09.080 all across the country and work with professtorve, directors, artisans, producers, 0:20:09.080 --> 0:20:12.439 so forth and so on. And with that, it taught 0:20:12.520 --> 0:20:15.920 me how to prepare myself in the rehearsal room, how 0:20:15.920 --> 0:20:19.600 to conduct myself backstage, how to treat my fellow cast members, 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:22.720 how to speak to a director. Grad school gave me 0:20:23.080 --> 0:20:26.680 a plethora of tools to add to my arsenal, the toolbox, 0:20:27.040 --> 0:20:30.800 speaking of severance. A lot of what I learned in 0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:34.680 grad school I utilized in crafting this role, in crafting 0:20:34.680 --> 0:20:38.480 milk check. So I'm I'm sure you t is really 0:20:38.600 --> 0:20:43.960 glad to hear that. Well, I've talked about this before, 0:20:44.000 --> 0:20:45.640 so I'm not gonna I'm not gonna hammer the point, 0:20:45.680 --> 0:20:49.680 but I think that what you're talking about so many 0:20:49.840 --> 0:20:53.320 people don't get. And you're speaking specifically about the theater, 0:20:53.400 --> 0:20:56.000 but obviously it applies to film and television as well 0:20:56.040 --> 0:21:00.639 as that experience, that confidence, that knowing how to behave 0:21:00.880 --> 0:21:05.200 in certain situations. That just breeds confidence with the people 0:21:05.240 --> 0:21:09.439 other people that you're working for or working with, showing 0:21:09.520 --> 0:21:12.040 up on time, knowing how to behave, what your job 0:21:12.240 --> 0:21:16.359 is and what the specific processes you know, for a 0:21:16.440 --> 0:21:20.280 variety of directors. I think that experience. You can't say 0:21:20.400 --> 0:21:24.919 enough about about that. Oh yeah, it strengthens you like 0:21:24.960 --> 0:21:28.080 you're going, like you're leading with Everyone is not the 0:21:28.119 --> 0:21:32.040 same everyone, every process is different. You know, I've been 0:21:32.080 --> 0:21:36.720 on a few sets now and every director operates very differently. 0:21:36.960 --> 0:21:41.480 And being able to manage different energies and and and 0:21:41.600 --> 0:21:45.320 different egos if you will, and different projects within that 0:21:46.080 --> 0:21:48.879 is crucial. Yeah. I have an old friend. I'm not 0:21:48.920 --> 0:21:50.960 going to mention his name in case he would get embarrassed, 0:21:51.000 --> 0:21:53.560 but he called me. He had gotten a cameo in 0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:56.760 a movie, had a few scenes, and he said, do 0:21:56.800 --> 0:21:59.560 you have any tricks for memorizing lines? I mean, this 0:21:59.680 --> 0:22:03.159 is not an actor. And I said, well, first of all, 0:22:03.200 --> 0:22:05.240 you need to know this that you're going to know 0:22:05.359 --> 0:22:07.680 every single word and you're gonna show up and they're 0:22:07.680 --> 0:22:09.880 gonna tell you where to stand and how to move, 0:22:10.040 --> 0:22:11.640 and the camera is going to be there, and you're 0:22:11.640 --> 0:22:14.240 gonna have fourteen people staring at you behind that camera 0:22:14.680 --> 0:22:16.840 and you're not going to remember. So as well as 0:22:16.840 --> 0:22:20.760 you think you know the words, you don't, you don't. 0:22:20.840 --> 0:22:22.920 I gave him a couple of tricks. I don't even 0:22:22.920 --> 0:22:26.120 know if it worked out, but but yeah, that that 0:22:26.240 --> 0:22:31.760 is is so difficult. Um, you you graduate from Tennessee, 0:22:32.119 --> 0:22:34.879 where do you decide your home should be? Well, I 0:22:34.920 --> 0:22:37.639 haven't decided where my home should be at that time, 0:22:37.680 --> 0:22:41.560 but I do go to New York. Okay, okay, in 0:22:41.600 --> 0:22:44.880 New York because at that time I didn't know what 0:22:44.960 --> 0:22:48.760 I should do. You know, the program did not have 0:22:48.800 --> 0:22:51.600 a lot of connections in l A. You know, so 0:22:51.840 --> 0:22:56.200 our showcase was in New York, and the head of acting, 0:22:56.320 --> 0:22:59.359 Jed Diamond at the University of Tennessee, suggested that I 0:22:59.400 --> 0:23:01.400 go to New York. He's like, listen, go to New York. 0:23:01.440 --> 0:23:03.600 Give it five years. If you don't like it, you 0:23:03.600 --> 0:23:05.720 can leave. Five years is a hell of a long 0:23:05.760 --> 0:23:09.360 time to be in a place that you are nervous 0:23:09.400 --> 0:23:12.880 to be in. I was terrified about going to New York. 0:23:13.560 --> 0:23:16.040 I didn't want to have seventeen roommates in a shoe 0:23:16.040 --> 0:23:18.560 box apartment eating Ramen noodles every night. I was like, 0:23:18.600 --> 0:23:21.480 I just did not want to do that, because that 0:23:21.880 --> 0:23:24.879 was what I was told would happen as an actor 0:23:25.000 --> 0:23:27.480 if you go to New York. But when I went 0:23:27.520 --> 0:23:29.879 to showcase and I had a couple of days to 0:23:29.960 --> 0:23:35.080 just absorb the city and watch people navigate these spaces 0:23:35.680 --> 0:23:38.040 and realize that these people are at the same age 0:23:38.080 --> 0:23:41.159 as me or younger than me, and they're doing fine, 0:23:41.440 --> 0:23:44.000 I said, oh, well, I could do this. I can 0:23:44.080 --> 0:23:47.720 make this happen, like, let's go, you know, And it 0:23:47.760 --> 0:23:49.680 worked out. It was one of the best decisions I've 0:23:49.680 --> 0:23:53.280 ever made. Nice by the way, I couldn't do it. 0:23:53.480 --> 0:23:56.600 I found other places. I always would go to New 0:23:56.640 --> 0:23:59.720 York when I had a job, But yeah, that that 0:24:00.040 --> 0:24:03.080 image for me as well. I couldn't get over it. 0:24:03.320 --> 0:24:05.720 I couldn't get over it. So I'm I'm certainly glad 0:24:05.880 --> 0:24:10.080 you did. I mean, it's not for everybody. Um, you 0:24:10.200 --> 0:24:16.440 make your Broadway debut in twenty nineteen in the Great 0:24:16.480 --> 0:24:21.040 Society starring Well. I don't know if living legend is 0:24:21.280 --> 0:24:26.480 too much, but certainly an American and European gem. Brian 0:24:26.600 --> 0:24:30.600 Cox tell me about that experience of landing that role 0:24:30.760 --> 0:24:34.040