1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,040 Speaker 1: I need to let my hair down a little bit. 2 00:00:02,080 --> 00:00:04,760 Speaker 1: I need to let loose. I'm gonna take my tie 3 00:00:04,800 --> 00:00:07,200 Speaker 1: off and I'm gonna put on this turtleneck because I 4 00:00:07,240 --> 00:00:09,560 Speaker 1: like this turtleneck. I look good in this turtleneck. It 5 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,639 Speaker 1: helps me move, you know, it helps you move obviously, 6 00:00:12,680 --> 00:00:15,600 Speaker 1: and he let's go. Yeah. Yeah, it's a secret power. 7 00:00:15,760 --> 00:00:26,520 Speaker 1: It's a it's a stretchable fabric. Oh yeah, it's hi. 8 00:00:26,920 --> 00:00:29,400 Speaker 1: My name Mr Melt Tillman and I played mill Check 9 00:00:29,600 --> 00:00:41,080 Speaker 1: on Severn. Hi everybody, and welcome back as always too 10 00:00:41,400 --> 00:00:45,040 Speaker 1: off the beat. I am your host Brian baum Gartner, 11 00:00:45,240 --> 00:00:50,840 Speaker 1: and oh am my giddy today I am. I am 12 00:00:50,960 --> 00:00:54,680 Speaker 1: very excited. Um. You should know this that recently I 13 00:00:54,760 --> 00:01:00,120 Speaker 1: have become obsessed with my new favorite show, Severance on 14 00:01:00,320 --> 00:01:04,360 Speaker 1: Apple TV Plus. Now. If you're not familiar with Severance, one, 15 00:01:04,400 --> 00:01:07,680 Speaker 1: you should be. But two. It's about a tech company 16 00:01:07,800 --> 00:01:13,880 Speaker 1: called Lumen that severs employees work and home lives, essentially 17 00:01:13,920 --> 00:01:19,319 Speaker 1: creating two versions of well, one person. It's a very 18 00:01:19,360 --> 00:01:24,680 Speaker 1: fascinating and interesting take on office life, and man, it 19 00:01:24,720 --> 00:01:29,640 Speaker 1: goes places that you would never expect, which brings me 20 00:01:29,920 --> 00:01:35,920 Speaker 1: to why I'm giddy. Today's guest, the Amazing Trammel Tillman. 21 00:01:36,160 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 1: Now he plays the super creepy but somehow charming lumen 22 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,760 Speaker 1: supervisor Seth mill Check his character is. He has some 23 00:01:45,800 --> 00:01:48,280 Speaker 1: of the most interesting scenes in the whole series. And 24 00:01:48,560 --> 00:01:51,640 Speaker 1: I am not gonna spoil too much today, but if 25 00:01:51,680 --> 00:01:55,640 Speaker 1: you don't want to know anything about anything that happens 26 00:01:55,640 --> 00:01:58,080 Speaker 1: in the show, maybe go watch it and then come 27 00:01:58,120 --> 00:02:01,160 Speaker 1: back and then you'll run back here to listen to 28 00:02:01,200 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 1: this episode. We dive into severance casting filming some of 29 00:02:05,760 --> 00:02:11,079 Speaker 1: those iconic scenes. Did anyone say m d E? And 30 00:02:11,320 --> 00:02:14,720 Speaker 1: we discuss the optics and design of the show and 31 00:02:14,840 --> 00:02:18,600 Speaker 1: so much more. We'll also get into Trammel's background and 32 00:02:18,720 --> 00:02:23,200 Speaker 1: why he believes that art changes lives. It is my 33 00:02:23,560 --> 00:02:29,560 Speaker 1: sincere pleasure to introduce to all of you my new bestie, 34 00:02:29,800 --> 00:02:39,280 Speaker 1: Trammel Tillman. Bubble and Squeak. I love it, Bubble and 35 00:02:39,360 --> 00:02:45,640 Speaker 1: Squeak on Bubble and Squeaker Cookie at every month left 36 00:02:45,840 --> 00:03:02,680 Speaker 1: over from the nut before travel. What is happening, my friend? 37 00:03:02,800 --> 00:03:08,640 Speaker 1: What's going on? I am so happy that you're here. 38 00:03:09,560 --> 00:03:14,240 Speaker 1: I've come clean about something. I love this show so much. 39 00:03:14,680 --> 00:03:19,800 Speaker 1: I cannot tell you how much I was traveling and 40 00:03:19,880 --> 00:03:22,360 Speaker 1: I finished the series, and I'm like, at thirty five, 41 00:03:22,360 --> 00:03:26,000 Speaker 1: thou feet and I start firing off this missive email, 42 00:03:26,280 --> 00:03:29,960 Speaker 1: I'm like, we gotta get tromel. I told Wendy Malick, 43 00:03:30,120 --> 00:03:33,639 Speaker 1: the genius Wendy Malick and John Ham and some people 44 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:36,560 Speaker 1: that I've had the opportunity to work with before and know, 45 00:03:37,400 --> 00:03:40,200 Speaker 1: and I told them that I started this podcast because 46 00:03:40,240 --> 00:03:42,640 Speaker 1: I wanted to talk to them like I wanted. I 47 00:03:42,680 --> 00:03:46,120 Speaker 1: wanted to get really deep in terms of their process 48 00:03:46,200 --> 00:03:49,440 Speaker 1: and their story and and the moments that define them. 49 00:03:49,480 --> 00:03:52,320 Speaker 1: But really it's I wanted to talk to you. I 50 00:03:52,360 --> 00:03:58,160 Speaker 1: didn't know it at the time, but a little bit, 51 00:03:58,440 --> 00:04:03,920 Speaker 1: but after after after seeing Severance, it was really about 52 00:04:03,960 --> 00:04:07,640 Speaker 1: about you. We're gonna talk plenty about Severance, but I 53 00:04:07,680 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 1: really wanted to learn a little bit about you and 54 00:04:10,640 --> 00:04:14,680 Speaker 1: what sort of helped define you in in your earlier 55 00:04:14,760 --> 00:04:16,880 Speaker 1: life and in your career and how you sort of 56 00:04:16,960 --> 00:04:20,719 Speaker 1: got to where you are today. I understand you grew 57 00:04:20,760 --> 00:04:24,240 Speaker 1: up in in Maryland? Is that right? I did? I did. 58 00:04:24,320 --> 00:04:27,200 Speaker 1: I grew up in Largo, Maryland, UM, which is in 59 00:04:27,440 --> 00:04:31,120 Speaker 1: p g County, and at the time in the eighties, 60 00:04:31,160 --> 00:04:35,119 Speaker 1: it's was one of the richest black counties in America, 61 00:04:35,200 --> 00:04:39,560 Speaker 1: and there's still pockets of PG County that that hold 62 00:04:39,760 --> 00:04:46,120 Speaker 1: a high population of black affluents in that area. Okay, yeah, yeah, yeah, 63 00:04:46,279 --> 00:04:48,320 Speaker 1: there's a hop, skip and a jump into d C 64 00:04:48,920 --> 00:04:53,160 Speaker 1: from d C. Okay, a lot of politicians there, tons. 65 00:04:53,400 --> 00:04:55,640 Speaker 1: I mean, I was probably neighbors with a few of them, 66 00:04:55,680 --> 00:05:00,680 Speaker 1: you know, like so far away. You know, there's a 67 00:05:00,720 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: scene of a lot of excellence, if you will, in 68 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:08,960 Speaker 1: that community. I was neighbors with entrepreneurs and around principles 69 00:05:09,000 --> 00:05:12,479 Speaker 1: and teachers, educators, you know, were like so everything was 70 00:05:12,520 --> 00:05:17,880 Speaker 1: about growth, expansion and excellence. Okay, when you were ten 71 00:05:17,960 --> 00:05:21,200 Speaker 1: years old, this is how the story goes. You were 72 00:05:21,200 --> 00:05:25,640 Speaker 1: in a church Christmas production and you first got the 73 00:05:25,680 --> 00:05:28,679 Speaker 1: bug about being an actor. Is that right? That's true. 74 00:05:29,040 --> 00:05:32,760 Speaker 1: That's true. I was a very shy kid, and my 75 00:05:32,800 --> 00:05:37,920 Speaker 1: mom recognized talent that I have of performing, and I 76 00:05:37,920 --> 00:05:42,320 Speaker 1: would always perform by myself alone. She thought that it 77 00:05:42,400 --> 00:05:44,200 Speaker 1: was very important for me to be involved in the 78 00:05:44,279 --> 00:05:46,680 Speaker 1: church because she grew up in the church as did 79 00:05:46,800 --> 00:05:50,960 Speaker 1: my father. There was an opportunity for her to be 80 00:05:51,040 --> 00:05:53,080 Speaker 1: a part of a play, and she felt this was 81 00:05:53,360 --> 00:05:56,560 Speaker 1: wonderful because there's so many characters in my family, and 82 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:59,160 Speaker 1: we all liked the Spotlight in one way or the other, 83 00:05:59,240 --> 00:06:03,880 Speaker 1: whether or not we admit it, you know, um. And 84 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:07,000 Speaker 1: with that, they needed someone to play her son, and 85 00:06:07,040 --> 00:06:12,320 Speaker 1: what better person to play her son than so right exactly? 86 00:06:12,400 --> 00:06:16,080 Speaker 1: You know, I was kicking and screaming, you know, Brian, 87 00:06:16,240 --> 00:06:18,680 Speaker 1: I did not want to do it. I cried, I 88 00:06:18,800 --> 00:06:23,200 Speaker 1: boo hooed, But there was nowhere around it. Can't tell mom, no, 89 00:06:23,560 --> 00:06:26,799 Speaker 1: especially age of ten. And I got on that stage 90 00:06:27,360 --> 00:06:29,719 Speaker 1: and I had one line in one direction to say 91 00:06:29,760 --> 00:06:32,920 Speaker 1: hello and sit on the couch. And from that moment 92 00:06:33,080 --> 00:06:37,160 Speaker 1: it clicked. Really I didn't know what this thing was 93 00:06:37,240 --> 00:06:39,760 Speaker 1: that that got me, but it did right then in 94 00:06:39,800 --> 00:06:41,400 Speaker 1: the moment, and I wanted to do more of it. 95 00:06:41,720 --> 00:06:45,120 Speaker 1: So then did you start auditioning for plays? You started 96 00:06:45,160 --> 00:06:48,800 Speaker 1: doing plays as a young person. I continue within the church. 97 00:06:49,600 --> 00:06:51,480 Speaker 1: I got my start in the church, doing a lot 98 00:06:51,520 --> 00:06:56,080 Speaker 1: of theater, and eventually, you know, veering out and doing 99 00:06:56,680 --> 00:07:00,800 Speaker 1: professional served as an extra on the wire. Yes you 100 00:07:00,839 --> 00:07:05,120 Speaker 1: remember that show, well, yes, I remember that show. It's 101 00:07:05,160 --> 00:07:07,839 Speaker 1: one of the one of the greatest shows of all time. 102 00:07:08,480 --> 00:07:12,120 Speaker 1: How old were you when that happen? Yeah, I was 103 00:07:12,160 --> 00:07:14,640 Speaker 1: about that age, I was about that age, I sat 104 00:07:14,800 --> 00:07:18,880 Speaker 1: probably two rolls behind Wendell Pierce. It was a scene 105 00:07:19,440 --> 00:07:22,080 Speaker 1: at a baseball game, you know. Wendell Pierce and I 106 00:07:22,120 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 1: cannot remember the other actors he was sitting next to, 107 00:07:24,400 --> 00:07:27,600 Speaker 1: but they were having a conversation and I was thinking, 108 00:07:27,720 --> 00:07:32,000 Speaker 1: I'm sitting a couple of rows behind Wendel Pierce. Is 109 00:07:32,040 --> 00:07:36,360 Speaker 1: that this is really cool? And tried not to still 110 00:07:36,360 --> 00:07:44,000 Speaker 1: focus actors work. Yeah, it's amazing how quickly you You're 111 00:07:44,040 --> 00:07:47,160 Speaker 1: no longer sitting two rows behind Wendell Pierce. If you can, 112 00:07:47,520 --> 00:07:53,960 Speaker 1: if you're a distraction, I mean right right absolutely? Now 113 00:07:54,040 --> 00:07:59,600 Speaker 1: I read you. You ended up going to Xavier University 114 00:08:00,080 --> 00:08:06,680 Speaker 1: there in Louisiana. You were there when Hurricane Katrina decimated 115 00:08:06,840 --> 00:08:09,760 Speaker 1: the city, which I want to talk about. But you 116 00:08:09,840 --> 00:08:13,200 Speaker 1: were studying to become an orthopedic surgeon. Is this is this? 117 00:08:13,400 --> 00:08:16,480 Speaker 1: Is this right? Yes? That is correct. So at this 118 00:08:16,520 --> 00:08:19,840 Speaker 1: point you had given up, or at least temporarily put 119 00:08:19,880 --> 00:08:22,480 Speaker 1: on hold, your desire to be an actor, and you 120 00:08:22,520 --> 00:08:25,800 Speaker 1: wanted to be a smarty pants basically did that I 121 00:08:25,840 --> 00:08:29,280 Speaker 1: wanted to be at Yeah? Well, the thing was, I 122 00:08:29,320 --> 00:08:31,000 Speaker 1: was told at a young age that I would never 123 00:08:31,040 --> 00:08:33,720 Speaker 1: make it. You know, they said that only two percent 124 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:38,840 Speaker 1: of actors or people aspiring to become actors have a 125 00:08:38,960 --> 00:08:41,680 Speaker 1: thriving career in it. And I didn't want to wait 126 00:08:41,720 --> 00:08:44,160 Speaker 1: tables for the rest of my life. That's what I 127 00:08:44,240 --> 00:08:48,559 Speaker 1: was told. I was encouraged to find a career that 128 00:08:48,840 --> 00:08:55,199 Speaker 1: would foster a steady financial lifestyle. So I was told 129 00:08:55,240 --> 00:09:00,920 Speaker 1: that I should get into computers, into business, law, or medicine. 130 00:09:01,720 --> 00:09:04,760 Speaker 1: I enjoyed science. I thought it was really cool. I 131 00:09:04,840 --> 00:09:07,360 Speaker 1: love the idea of helping people, so that was the 132 00:09:07,440 --> 00:09:10,560 Speaker 1: route that I figured I would go in. And I 133 00:09:10,600 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 1: was around so many doctors, especially black doctors, and they 134 00:09:15,040 --> 00:09:20,280 Speaker 1: were always the pinnacle of success in the community. So 135 00:09:20,840 --> 00:09:22,640 Speaker 1: that was the route I wanted to go in, or 136 00:09:22,679 --> 00:09:26,200 Speaker 1: so I thought. But what was interesting, Brian, is that 137 00:09:26,760 --> 00:09:30,040 Speaker 1: performing was always there. You know, even when I was 138 00:09:30,080 --> 00:09:32,280 Speaker 1: in high school, I was still performing. When I was 139 00:09:32,320 --> 00:09:36,000 Speaker 1: at Xavier University, I got sucked into doing a musical, 140 00:09:36,240 --> 00:09:41,520 Speaker 1: a random musical, like for a play at Xavier University. 141 00:09:41,840 --> 00:09:44,840 Speaker 1: I still very much loved it, but I knew that 142 00:09:44,920 --> 00:09:47,480 Speaker 1: it wasn't something that was gonna feed me financially, and 143 00:09:47,520 --> 00:09:50,200 Speaker 1: I was scared to walk into it. So I said, 144 00:09:50,240 --> 00:09:53,080 Speaker 1: you know, being a doctor isn't so bad it could 145 00:09:53,280 --> 00:09:59,360 Speaker 1: you know, it's not like it's hard, right, So that's 146 00:09:59,400 --> 00:10:02,480 Speaker 1: the easiest path you could take, right, Like, what, it's 147 00:10:02,520 --> 00:10:06,439 Speaker 1: no problem totally. It's funny. My dad was a doctor, 148 00:10:06,520 --> 00:10:11,120 Speaker 1: and so for me it was the reverse. I was like, yeah, 149 00:10:11,440 --> 00:10:14,320 Speaker 1: that seems like a lot of school. I don't know, 150 00:10:14,480 --> 00:10:17,600 Speaker 1: that seems like that seems like a lot of school. 151 00:10:18,160 --> 00:10:20,120 Speaker 1: And I did not have the interest in science, and 152 00:10:20,160 --> 00:10:23,760 Speaker 1: it sounds like you did. So yeah, I decided pretty 153 00:10:23,760 --> 00:10:27,160 Speaker 1: young that that was not for me. So explained to 154 00:10:27,160 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 1: me what happened, So the hurricane had did Xavier shut 155 00:10:29,920 --> 00:10:32,320 Speaker 1: down or did you decide you needed to get out 156 00:10:32,320 --> 00:10:35,719 Speaker 1: of there? Or what happened? So, okay, we gotta back up. 157 00:10:35,760 --> 00:10:39,040 Speaker 1: So there's a whole meeting story within that. So while 158 00:10:39,040 --> 00:10:42,079 Speaker 1: I was at Xavier University, I was studying biology PREMIT. 159 00:10:42,760 --> 00:10:46,640 Speaker 1: I was doing better in biology PREMIT than many of 160 00:10:46,640 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 1: my colleagues who are doctors. Now that's right, that's that's wild. 161 00:10:51,000 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: But I hated chemistry LAP. I had a kim lab 162 00:10:54,520 --> 00:10:56,400 Speaker 1: and I hated it. I did not want to do this. 163 00:10:56,800 --> 00:10:58,720 Speaker 1: And the best thing about kim lab was the fact 164 00:10:58,720 --> 00:11:02,600 Speaker 1: that I could watch the color's check age. So from 165 00:11:02,679 --> 00:11:05,840 Speaker 1: there I had decided that there's there's gotta be something 166 00:11:05,840 --> 00:11:08,200 Speaker 1: else that I can do. But then I remembered in 167 00:11:08,280 --> 00:11:12,400 Speaker 1: high school I was very involved in like doing social events, 168 00:11:12,480 --> 00:11:15,240 Speaker 1: so I figured, okay, publicity. So I changed my major 169 00:11:15,440 --> 00:11:18,720 Speaker 1: into mass communications, so I would figure that I would 170 00:11:18,720 --> 00:11:21,680 Speaker 1: get into advertising and publicity and so and so forth 171 00:11:21,720 --> 00:11:25,720 Speaker 1: and so on. Unfortunately, we hit a financial snag. My 172 00:11:25,800 --> 00:11:28,240 Speaker 1: mom had gave me a phone call and said, I 173 00:11:28,280 --> 00:11:31,440 Speaker 1: can no longer help you financially with college because we 174 00:11:31,520 --> 00:11:35,720 Speaker 1: lost our home, homeless work closed, basically we lost everything. 175 00:11:36,360 --> 00:11:39,559 Speaker 1: With that, I had to find a way to finance school. 176 00:11:40,000 --> 00:11:42,920 Speaker 1: Xavier University, while it's a wonderful university, was just so 177 00:11:43,040 --> 00:11:47,000 Speaker 1: out of my pocket because it's a private Catholic school, 178 00:11:47,160 --> 00:11:50,679 Speaker 1: you know. So my mom suggested, along with my sister 179 00:11:50,720 --> 00:11:54,160 Speaker 1: who was in Mississippi, Jackson, Mississippi, to go to Jackson 180 00:11:54,240 --> 00:11:56,800 Speaker 1: State because they have a communications program you could be 181 00:11:56,800 --> 00:12:00,240 Speaker 1: a part of and it's cheaper. I was hesitant about that. 182 00:12:00,440 --> 00:12:02,920 Speaker 1: I wanted to go to Howard University. I got accepted 183 00:12:02,960 --> 00:12:05,319 Speaker 1: into Howard University, but I didn't get a big enough 184 00:12:05,360 --> 00:12:10,200 Speaker 1: scholarship to go to Howard University. So right before Katrina hit. 185 00:12:10,400 --> 00:12:13,079 Speaker 1: I said, you know, I'll go to Jackson State. I'll 186 00:12:13,120 --> 00:12:14,679 Speaker 1: give it a year, but then I'm gonna come back 187 00:12:14,679 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 1: to Xavier because I really love it there. So I 188 00:12:17,679 --> 00:12:21,080 Speaker 1: ended up going to Jackson State. Hurricane Katrina came along, 189 00:12:21,480 --> 00:12:25,440 Speaker 1: and it not only hit Xavier, not only hit New Orleans, 190 00:12:25,440 --> 00:12:28,880 Speaker 1: but it came up to Jackson, Mississippi. So it's almost 191 00:12:28,880 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 1: like the storm just followed me right on up, you know. 192 00:12:32,559 --> 00:12:35,559 Speaker 1: And that's not funny. I don't know why I laughed 193 00:12:35,559 --> 00:12:40,600 Speaker 1: at that. It was the image. It was yeah, yeah, yeah, 194 00:12:40,679 --> 00:12:46,360 Speaker 1: yeah yeah, but it was devastating. Was also incredibly ironic. 195 00:12:46,480 --> 00:12:48,440 Speaker 1: And what was interesting is that while I was at 196 00:12:48,480 --> 00:12:52,600 Speaker 1: Jackson State, there was some students that came up to 197 00:12:52,720 --> 00:12:56,319 Speaker 1: Jackson State from Xavier to continue their education because they 198 00:12:56,320 --> 00:12:59,640 Speaker 1: were offering those kind of programs across Xavier students. They 199 00:12:59,640 --> 00:13:03,160 Speaker 1: were most sister schools that were set up. You know, 200 00:13:03,160 --> 00:13:05,760 Speaker 1: there are people who went to Brown, Harvard, you know, 201 00:13:05,840 --> 00:13:09,040 Speaker 1: Howard and the like. So I had friends from Xavier 202 00:13:09,160 --> 00:13:13,560 Speaker 1: that were experiencing Jackson State along with me, which made 203 00:13:13,559 --> 00:13:15,560 Speaker 1: it a great time. And I ended up falling in 204 00:13:15,600 --> 00:13:18,800 Speaker 1: love with Jackson State and have such an appreciation for 205 00:13:18,880 --> 00:13:21,960 Speaker 1: the school and the education the environment there. Yeah, and 206 00:13:22,040 --> 00:13:25,240 Speaker 1: you graduated from there. I did. I graduated summa cum 207 00:13:25,280 --> 00:13:29,520 Speaker 1: laude Jackson State University. See there's this body pants thing again. 208 00:13:29,600 --> 00:13:36,440 Speaker 1: I knew it. Yeah. So you graduate from Jackson State 209 00:13:37,280 --> 00:13:41,640 Speaker 1: with your mass communications degree and then what you decide 210 00:13:41,960 --> 00:13:45,240 Speaker 1: that maybe you're not done with acting. No, it's still there. 211 00:13:45,440 --> 00:13:48,000 Speaker 1: The acting bug is is still around. And while I 212 00:13:48,040 --> 00:13:50,599 Speaker 1: was while I was that Jackson State, I was connected 213 00:13:50,640 --> 00:13:54,640 Speaker 1: to the head of the acting department, Dr Mark G. Henderson. 214 00:13:54,920 --> 00:14:00,520 Speaker 1: And I remember while I was doing a speech competition 215 00:14:00,600 --> 00:14:03,840 Speaker 1: with my fraternity, he came along and helped me with 216 00:14:04,000 --> 00:14:07,440 Speaker 1: the speech competition, ended up winning the competition. I'm under 217 00:14:07,480 --> 00:14:10,360 Speaker 1: his tutelage, and he asked me, why are you not 218 00:14:10,559 --> 00:14:13,040 Speaker 1: part of the drama program here at Jackson State. And 219 00:14:13,120 --> 00:14:16,640 Speaker 1: at that time, Brian, because I believed and getting heavily involved. 220 00:14:16,679 --> 00:14:18,600 Speaker 1: That was my upbringing to get involved as much as 221 00:14:18,640 --> 00:14:21,080 Speaker 1: you can. I was in s g A. I was 222 00:14:21,160 --> 00:14:24,440 Speaker 1: part of the Out five Fraternity Incorporated organization. I was 223 00:14:24,520 --> 00:14:26,840 Speaker 1: part of the Kids College Freedom School projects, so I 224 00:14:26,920 --> 00:14:29,400 Speaker 1: was working with kids. I also had part time jobs. 225 00:14:29,440 --> 00:14:31,600 Speaker 1: I had so much going on, I didn't have time 226 00:14:32,040 --> 00:14:34,840 Speaker 1: to do any acting and I was involved in the 227 00:14:34,880 --> 00:14:38,240 Speaker 1: church at Jackson, Mississippi, New Horizon Church. You know, I 228 00:14:38,280 --> 00:14:42,080 Speaker 1: don't have time. What When I graduated, I got offered 229 00:14:42,080 --> 00:14:45,240 Speaker 1: a job working with kids college Freedom School Project, and 230 00:14:45,280 --> 00:14:49,320 Speaker 1: as wonderful as those kids were, I hated being there. 231 00:14:49,720 --> 00:14:52,480 Speaker 1: And I hated being there because I wasn't doing what 232 00:14:52,680 --> 00:14:54,960 Speaker 1: I love to do. And what I love to do 233 00:14:55,720 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: was form, tell stories, act, seeing dance. Right. So, I 234 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,280 Speaker 1: remember having a conversation with Dr Mark G. Henderson and 235 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:05,760 Speaker 1: he sat me down and he said, Trammel, you don't 236 00:15:05,760 --> 00:15:08,040 Speaker 1: look happy. Are you happy? I said no, Why are 237 00:15:08,040 --> 00:15:10,280 Speaker 1: you not happy? He asked me, and he said, if 238 00:15:10,280 --> 00:15:12,240 Speaker 1: I had to wager our guest, I don't think that 239 00:15:12,280 --> 00:15:13,920 Speaker 1: you are doing the thing that you love to do. 240 00:15:14,000 --> 00:15:17,680 Speaker 1: You light up when it comes to performing. And I said, well, 241 00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,440 Speaker 1: I can't do this. I'm not gonna have the money 242 00:15:19,440 --> 00:15:20,840 Speaker 1: for this. I'm not going to have this. I'm not 243 00:15:20,840 --> 00:15:23,520 Speaker 1: talented enough. I don't you know all of these excuses. 244 00:15:23,720 --> 00:15:26,240 Speaker 1: And then he said, are you done? And I said, yes, 245 00:15:28,400 --> 00:15:30,600 Speaker 1: Go do the thing that you love to do. Go 246 00:15:30,760 --> 00:15:32,800 Speaker 1: do the thing that you love to do, and everything 247 00:15:32,800 --> 00:15:35,320 Speaker 1: else will fall into place. And he encouraged me to 248 00:15:35,320 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 1: go to grad school. And in order to getting grad 249 00:15:37,320 --> 00:15:40,160 Speaker 1: school you have to audition, right, So then in order 250 00:15:40,200 --> 00:15:42,640 Speaker 1: to audition, I was a part of urda's which is 251 00:15:42,680 --> 00:15:48,600 Speaker 1: the United Residents Theater Association casting call for graduate schools. 252 00:15:49,000 --> 00:15:52,760 Speaker 1: So I auditioned for that in Chicago. Ended up getting 253 00:15:52,760 --> 00:15:55,440 Speaker 1: a lot of attention from the grad school programs there, 254 00:15:55,800 --> 00:15:59,000 Speaker 1: got the attention from the University of Iowa, received a 255 00:15:59,040 --> 00:16:02,080 Speaker 1: full scholarship to go to the University of Iowa. At 256 00:16:02,120 --> 00:16:05,200 Speaker 1: the last minute, Brian, when I was supposed to get 257 00:16:05,240 --> 00:16:07,200 Speaker 1: on the plane to leave or get in the car 258 00:16:07,240 --> 00:16:08,320 Speaker 1: and leave, I don't even know how I was going 259 00:16:08,360 --> 00:16:12,040 Speaker 1: to get to Iowa. The financial portion fell through, and 260 00:16:12,080 --> 00:16:15,080 Speaker 1: it wasn't from the institution what it was. It was 261 00:16:15,120 --> 00:16:17,040 Speaker 1: for me. All of a sudden, like all the money 262 00:16:17,120 --> 00:16:21,360 Speaker 1: was gone. I called the head of the program at 263 00:16:21,360 --> 00:16:23,760 Speaker 1: the University of Iowa and said, listen, this is my situation. 264 00:16:23,840 --> 00:16:25,920 Speaker 1: He said, we've gave We've given you all the money 265 00:16:25,960 --> 00:16:27,880 Speaker 1: we can give you. I don't know how we can 266 00:16:27,920 --> 00:16:30,240 Speaker 1: help you. He asked me, said Terrell, are you coming? 267 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:31,880 Speaker 1: And I said, I don't know how to get there. 268 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:34,720 Speaker 1: He said, well, I have to resend the offer. So 269 00:16:35,240 --> 00:16:40,760 Speaker 1: after the entire church community congratulated me on leaving to 270 00:16:40,760 --> 00:16:44,320 Speaker 1: go the University of Iowa. I ended up not going 271 00:16:44,400 --> 00:16:47,680 Speaker 1: to the University of Iowa and just stayed in Jackson, 272 00:16:47,680 --> 00:16:52,160 Speaker 1: Mississippi and worked and worked and worked until I could 273 00:16:52,160 --> 00:16:54,800 Speaker 1: have enough money to get out of Jackson, Mississippi to 274 00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,880 Speaker 1: go pursue my dreams on another level. But it gave 275 00:16:57,920 --> 00:17:01,440 Speaker 1: me an opportunity, Brian, because that I was able to 276 00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:04,680 Speaker 1: work with New Stage Theater to get some regional theater credits. 277 00:17:04,920 --> 00:17:07,600 Speaker 1: I was able to work with j V Productions and 278 00:17:07,640 --> 00:17:12,000 Speaker 1: they offered me more training and more the legs to 279 00:17:12,160 --> 00:17:16,880 Speaker 1: grow and find to my craft experience experience, Yes, yeah, 280 00:17:16,960 --> 00:17:18,719 Speaker 1: And how long were you there? How how long did 281 00:17:18,760 --> 00:17:21,000 Speaker 1: you end up done staying in Jackson. I got there 282 00:17:21,040 --> 00:17:23,520 Speaker 1: two thousand five and I left in two thousand eleven. 283 00:17:23,560 --> 00:17:26,200 Speaker 1: And you went to Tennessee and I went to Tennessee. 284 00:17:26,560 --> 00:17:30,200 Speaker 1: And I went to Tennessee because the head of acting 285 00:17:30,240 --> 00:17:34,159 Speaker 1: there saw me at Urda's in two thousand nine and 286 00:17:34,440 --> 00:17:38,480 Speaker 1: thought I was too green, which he was right. I 287 00:17:38,520 --> 00:17:40,520 Speaker 1: didn't want to admit a time, but he was right. 288 00:17:41,359 --> 00:17:45,760 Speaker 1: He reached out to me early two thousand eleven and said, hey, 289 00:17:45,840 --> 00:17:47,719 Speaker 1: we may I don't know if you remember me from 290 00:17:47,720 --> 00:17:49,679 Speaker 1: the University of Tennessee, but we may have a slot 291 00:17:49,760 --> 00:17:53,520 Speaker 1: for you. I said, Hey, okay, let's go. This is 292 00:17:53,560 --> 00:17:55,920 Speaker 1: my opportunity. It's my ticket to move on and get 293 00:17:55,960 --> 00:17:59,000 Speaker 1: and get some grad food training. Two weeks go by, 294 00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:01,320 Speaker 1: I didn't hear from him. He then reaches out and 295 00:18:01,359 --> 00:18:04,480 Speaker 1: says to me, Oh, I'm sorry, the position has been filled. 296 00:18:04,520 --> 00:18:07,640 Speaker 1: We don't have a slot for you. So I'm devastated. 297 00:18:08,040 --> 00:18:10,560 Speaker 1: So that I get I put myself on this plan, Brian, 298 00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:12,800 Speaker 1: I said, this is what I'm gonna do. I am 299 00:18:12,840 --> 00:18:15,320 Speaker 1: gonna save up money and I'm gonna put myself on 300 00:18:15,400 --> 00:18:17,960 Speaker 1: a little tour. I'm gonna go to New York. I'm 301 00:18:18,000 --> 00:18:20,359 Speaker 1: gonna go to Atlanta, I'm gonna go to New Orleans, 302 00:18:20,440 --> 00:18:23,280 Speaker 1: and I'm gonna submit my resume and just see what happens. 303 00:18:23,560 --> 00:18:26,399 Speaker 1: So I'm saving I'm taking jobs after jobs after jobs 304 00:18:26,400 --> 00:18:30,639 Speaker 1: after job, and would you believe June of two thousand 305 00:18:30,680 --> 00:18:34,439 Speaker 1: and eleven, who calls me the head of acting at 306 00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:40,879 Speaker 1: the University of Tennessee. Edie says to me, Hi, I 307 00:18:40,920 --> 00:18:44,960 Speaker 1: don't know if you remember me, but I'm the head 308 00:18:45,000 --> 00:18:47,920 Speaker 1: of acting at the University Tennessee. I've been thinking about 309 00:18:47,960 --> 00:18:50,040 Speaker 1: you for six months. What do you mean if I 310 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:56,639 Speaker 1: remember you, Edie said. He said, listen, I know I 311 00:18:56,720 --> 00:18:59,680 Speaker 1: kind of pulled your leg earlier, but I'm serious. We 312 00:18:59,760 --> 00:19:03,280 Speaker 1: do a slot. You would start in the fall eleven. 313 00:19:03,640 --> 00:19:07,920 Speaker 1: If you're interested, come on up to Tennessee and let's 314 00:19:07,920 --> 00:19:10,520 Speaker 1: go from there and audition and let's go from there. 315 00:19:10,880 --> 00:19:12,720 Speaker 1: So I said, you know what, let's give it a shot. 316 00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:17,200 Speaker 1: And in July I went up there and I auditioned 317 00:19:17,840 --> 00:19:20,480 Speaker 1: and they offered me a slot right then on the spot. 318 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:41,679 Speaker 1: That's awesome. M What did grad school gift to you? 319 00:19:42,240 --> 00:19:46,520 Speaker 1: I would say confidence. I would say the development of 320 00:19:46,560 --> 00:19:50,639 Speaker 1: a thick skin. Because my graduate program was connected to 321 00:19:51,040 --> 00:19:53,879 Speaker 1: the Clarence Brown Theater, so it's a regional theater and 322 00:19:54,000 --> 00:19:58,520 Speaker 1: part of their mission is to connect students with professional artists. 323 00:19:58,560 --> 00:20:02,240 Speaker 1: So we had the opportunity to work with professional artists 324 00:20:02,240 --> 00:20:09,080 Speaker 1: all across the country and work with professtorve, directors, artisans, producers, 325 00:20:09,080 --> 00:20:12,439 Speaker 1: so forth and so on. And with that, it taught 326 00:20:12,520 --> 00:20:15,920 Speaker 1: me how to prepare myself in the rehearsal room, how 327 00:20:15,920 --> 00:20:19,600 Speaker 1: to conduct myself backstage, how to treat my fellow cast members, 328 00:20:19,600 --> 00:20:22,720 Speaker 1: how to speak to a director. Grad school gave me 329 00:20:23,080 --> 00:20:26,680 Speaker 1: a plethora of tools to add to my arsenal, the toolbox, 330 00:20:27,040 --> 00:20:30,800 Speaker 1: speaking of severance. A lot of what I learned in 331 00:20:30,840 --> 00:20:34,680 Speaker 1: grad school I utilized in crafting this role, in crafting 332 00:20:34,680 --> 00:20:38,480 Speaker 1: milk check. So I'm I'm sure you t is really 333 00:20:38,600 --> 00:20:43,960 Speaker 1: glad to hear that. Well, I've talked about this before, 334 00:20:44,000 --> 00:20:45,640 Speaker 1: so I'm not gonna I'm not gonna hammer the point, 335 00:20:45,680 --> 00:20:49,680 Speaker 1: but I think that what you're talking about so many 336 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:53,320 Speaker 1: people don't get. And you're speaking specifically about the theater, 337 00:20:53,400 --> 00:20:56,000 Speaker 1: but obviously it applies to film and television as well 338 00:20:56,040 --> 00:21:00,639 Speaker 1: as that experience, that confidence, that knowing how to behave 339 00:21:00,880 --> 00:21:05,200 Speaker 1: in certain situations. That just breeds confidence with the people 340 00:21:05,240 --> 00:21:09,439 Speaker 1: other people that you're working for or working with, showing 341 00:21:09,520 --> 00:21:12,040 Speaker 1: up on time, knowing how to behave, what your job 342 00:21:12,240 --> 00:21:16,359 Speaker 1: is and what the specific processes you know, for a 343 00:21:16,440 --> 00:21:20,280 Speaker 1: variety of directors. I think that experience. You can't say 344 00:21:20,400 --> 00:21:24,919 Speaker 1: enough about about that. Oh yeah, it strengthens you like 345 00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:28,080 Speaker 1: you're going, like you're leading with Everyone is not the 346 00:21:28,119 --> 00:21:32,040 Speaker 1: same everyone, every process is different. You know, I've been 347 00:21:32,080 --> 00:21:36,720 Speaker 1: on a few sets now and every director operates very differently. 348 00:21:36,960 --> 00:21:41,480 Speaker 1: And being able to manage different energies and and and 349 00:21:41,600 --> 00:21:45,320 Speaker 1: different egos if you will, and different projects within that 350 00:21:46,080 --> 00:21:48,879 Speaker 1: is crucial. Yeah. I have an old friend. I'm not 351 00:21:48,920 --> 00:21:50,960 Speaker 1: going to mention his name in case he would get embarrassed, 352 00:21:51,000 --> 00:21:53,560 Speaker 1: but he called me. He had gotten a cameo in 353 00:21:53,560 --> 00:21:56,760 Speaker 1: a movie, had a few scenes, and he said, do 354 00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,560 Speaker 1: you have any tricks for memorizing lines? I mean, this 355 00:21:59,680 --> 00:22:03,159 Speaker 1: is not an actor. And I said, well, first of all, 356 00:22:03,200 --> 00:22:05,240 Speaker 1: you need to know this that you're going to know 357 00:22:05,359 --> 00:22:07,680 Speaker 1: every single word and you're gonna show up and they're 358 00:22:07,680 --> 00:22:09,880 Speaker 1: gonna tell you where to stand and how to move, 359 00:22:10,040 --> 00:22:11,640 Speaker 1: and the camera is going to be there, and you're 360 00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:14,240 Speaker 1: gonna have fourteen people staring at you behind that camera 361 00:22:14,680 --> 00:22:16,840 Speaker 1: and you're not going to remember. So as well as 362 00:22:16,840 --> 00:22:20,760 Speaker 1: you think you know the words, you don't, you don't. 363 00:22:20,840 --> 00:22:22,920 Speaker 1: I gave him a couple of tricks. I don't even 364 00:22:22,920 --> 00:22:26,120 Speaker 1: know if it worked out, but but yeah, that that 365 00:22:26,240 --> 00:22:31,760 Speaker 1: is is so difficult. Um, you you graduate from Tennessee, 366 00:22:32,119 --> 00:22:34,879 Speaker 1: where do you decide your home should be? Well, I 367 00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:37,639 Speaker 1: haven't decided where my home should be at that time, 368 00:22:37,680 --> 00:22:41,560 Speaker 1: but I do go to New York. Okay, okay, in 369 00:22:41,600 --> 00:22:44,880 Speaker 1: New York because at that time I didn't know what 370 00:22:44,960 --> 00:22:48,760 Speaker 1: I should do. You know, the program did not have 371 00:22:48,800 --> 00:22:51,600 Speaker 1: a lot of connections in l A. You know, so 372 00:22:51,840 --> 00:22:56,200 Speaker 1: our showcase was in New York, and the head of acting, 373 00:22:56,320 --> 00:22:59,359 Speaker 1: Jed Diamond at the University of Tennessee, suggested that I 374 00:22:59,400 --> 00:23:01,400 Speaker 1: go to New York. He's like, listen, go to New York. 375 00:23:01,440 --> 00:23:03,600 Speaker 1: Give it five years. If you don't like it, you 376 00:23:03,600 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 1: can leave. Five years is a hell of a long 377 00:23:05,760 --> 00:23:09,360 Speaker 1: time to be in a place that you are nervous 378 00:23:09,400 --> 00:23:12,880 Speaker 1: to be in. I was terrified about going to New York. 379 00:23:13,560 --> 00:23:16,040 Speaker 1: I didn't want to have seventeen roommates in a shoe 380 00:23:16,040 --> 00:23:18,560 Speaker 1: box apartment eating Ramen noodles every night. I was like, 381 00:23:18,600 --> 00:23:21,480 Speaker 1: I just did not want to do that, because that 382 00:23:21,880 --> 00:23:24,879 Speaker 1: was what I was told would happen as an actor 383 00:23:25,000 --> 00:23:27,480 Speaker 1: if you go to New York. But when I went 384 00:23:27,520 --> 00:23:29,879 Speaker 1: to showcase and I had a couple of days to 385 00:23:29,960 --> 00:23:35,080 Speaker 1: just absorb the city and watch people navigate these spaces 386 00:23:35,680 --> 00:23:38,040 Speaker 1: and realize that these people are at the same age 387 00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,159 Speaker 1: as me or younger than me, and they're doing fine, 388 00:23:41,440 --> 00:23:44,000 Speaker 1: I said, oh, well, I could do this. I can 389 00:23:44,080 --> 00:23:47,720 Speaker 1: make this happen, like, let's go, you know, And it 390 00:23:47,760 --> 00:23:49,680 Speaker 1: worked out. It was one of the best decisions I've 391 00:23:49,680 --> 00:23:53,280 Speaker 1: ever made. Nice by the way, I couldn't do it. 392 00:23:53,480 --> 00:23:56,600 Speaker 1: I found other places. I always would go to New 393 00:23:56,640 --> 00:23:59,720 Speaker 1: York when I had a job, But yeah, that that 394 00:24:00,040 --> 00:24:03,080 Speaker 1: image for me as well. I couldn't get over it. 395 00:24:03,320 --> 00:24:05,720 Speaker 1: I couldn't get over it. So I'm I'm certainly glad 396 00:24:05,880 --> 00:24:10,080 Speaker 1: you did. I mean, it's not for everybody. Um, you 397 00:24:10,200 --> 00:24:16,440 Speaker 1: make your Broadway debut in twenty nineteen in the Great 398 00:24:16,480 --> 00:24:21,040 Speaker 1: Society starring Well. I don't know if living legend is 399 00:24:21,280 --> 00:24:26,480 Speaker 1: too much, but certainly an American and European gem. Brian 400 00:24:26,600 --> 00:24:30,600 Speaker 1: Cox tell me about that experience of landing that role 401 00:24:30,760 --> 00:24:34,040 Speaker 1: and working with him. I was for lower to be 402 00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:37,440 Speaker 1: a part of this production. Was an absolute fan of his, 403 00:24:38,200 --> 00:24:43,080 Speaker 1: especially with Succession. I was a little terrified because he 404 00:24:43,680 --> 00:24:48,960 Speaker 1: holds he does not hold back in succession. But he's 405 00:24:48,960 --> 00:24:51,480 Speaker 1: a he's a delight, he's a teddy bear. He's just 406 00:24:51,640 --> 00:24:57,600 Speaker 1: the sweetest, genuine man that had the pleasure of working 407 00:24:57,640 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 1: with and so brave Eve. I think this project. We 408 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,480 Speaker 1: put it up and maybe about three weeks Brian was 409 00:25:06,560 --> 00:25:10,560 Speaker 1: committed to being off book. They were suggesting like maybe 410 00:25:10,560 --> 00:25:12,680 Speaker 1: he should be on book for to play lb J 411 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:15,000 Speaker 1: but he said, no, I want to be completely off book. 412 00:25:15,359 --> 00:25:17,879 Speaker 1: So he took the charge and he was an absolute 413 00:25:17,880 --> 00:25:22,760 Speaker 1: inspiration for me. And uh, it was a wonderful, trying 414 00:25:22,800 --> 00:25:27,080 Speaker 1: production in the in the context of the story that 415 00:25:27,160 --> 00:25:29,240 Speaker 1: was being told. You know, it was a companion piece 416 00:25:29,280 --> 00:25:31,560 Speaker 1: to All the Way, to Robert Shenkins All the Way, 417 00:25:31,800 --> 00:25:37,040 Speaker 1: and that peace ends in triumph, whereas the Great Society 418 00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:41,600 Speaker 1: ends in tragedy. And what we were watching on stage, 419 00:25:41,640 --> 00:25:43,639 Speaker 1: or what the story we were telling on stage and 420 00:25:43,720 --> 00:25:47,359 Speaker 1: mirrored what was happening in the world in so it 421 00:25:47,440 --> 00:25:49,560 Speaker 1: was hard to take it and it was hard to 422 00:25:49,600 --> 00:25:52,480 Speaker 1: live in as well. But the cast was one. They 423 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:55,280 Speaker 1: were wonderful. Well. I don't know if you are aware 424 00:25:55,280 --> 00:25:58,000 Speaker 1: of this, this would have been when you were in school, 425 00:25:58,080 --> 00:26:01,639 Speaker 1: But about being off book, I had the opportunity to 426 00:26:01,640 --> 00:26:04,080 Speaker 1: do the American premiere of a Connor McPherson play called 427 00:26:04,200 --> 00:26:06,879 Speaker 1: Rum and Vodka. I loved it. It was one of 428 00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,480 Speaker 1: the best experiences in my life. He had the world premiere. 429 00:26:11,520 --> 00:26:14,240 Speaker 1: I'm pretty sure it ended up starting in London and 430 00:26:14,400 --> 00:26:17,280 Speaker 1: came here of another Connor McPherson one man show, which 431 00:26:17,400 --> 00:26:20,240 Speaker 1: was genius if you don't know it, and even longer. 432 00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:24,639 Speaker 1: I think it's full two hours. So doing a scripted 433 00:26:24,640 --> 00:26:27,119 Speaker 1: play for two hours and you're the only one on stage, 434 00:26:28,119 --> 00:26:32,960 Speaker 1: he learning lines must not be him, I guess. I 435 00:26:33,000 --> 00:26:36,480 Speaker 1: guess that's the lesson. Don't don't get in a learning 436 00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:43,040 Speaker 1: line contest with Brian Cox. I think you don't. You don't. 437 00:26:43,119 --> 00:26:46,560 Speaker 1: You don't want that heat at all. So you're working 438 00:26:46,920 --> 00:26:52,000 Speaker 1: at this point, you're doing other productions and you start 439 00:26:52,400 --> 00:26:55,520 Speaker 1: doing some stuff in film and television. Now, how was 440 00:26:55,600 --> 00:27:00,720 Speaker 1: that transition for you? You know, mostly, if not exclusively, 441 00:27:00,800 --> 00:27:04,560 Speaker 1: a theater actor, theater trained actor, and transitioning and beginning 442 00:27:04,600 --> 00:27:06,800 Speaker 1: to work in film and television. How how was that 443 00:27:06,840 --> 00:27:09,000 Speaker 1: transition for you? And it was that something that you 444 00:27:09,600 --> 00:27:12,600 Speaker 1: knew that you wanted to do or ye, talk to 445 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:15,600 Speaker 1: me a little bit about that. It took a different 446 00:27:15,640 --> 00:27:19,159 Speaker 1: set of skills for film and television because I hadn't 447 00:27:19,160 --> 00:27:22,280 Speaker 1: had a lot of experience with that. My experience was 448 00:27:22,320 --> 00:27:28,240 Speaker 1: the theater. And although I remember watching a lot of television, 449 00:27:28,280 --> 00:27:31,919 Speaker 1: probably too much television and film, uh, and reenacting the 450 00:27:32,000 --> 00:27:35,680 Speaker 1: scenes that I would see there, did you do that? 451 00:27:35,960 --> 00:27:38,680 Speaker 1: Oh god? Yes, Oh my god. Me and my best 452 00:27:38,720 --> 00:27:42,920 Speaker 1: friend in Lago, Maryland, we would re enact scenes all 453 00:27:43,000 --> 00:27:47,359 Speaker 1: the time. That's fascinating. I will just share this with you. 454 00:27:47,440 --> 00:27:50,879 Speaker 1: Greg Daniels, who was the creator of the Office, he 455 00:27:51,160 --> 00:27:55,120 Speaker 1: told me a story about as a writer doing sort 456 00:27:55,160 --> 00:27:59,720 Speaker 1: of the same thing, except he would transcribe the words. 457 00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:04,960 Speaker 1: He would write down the scripted words in television, sort 458 00:28:05,000 --> 00:28:07,320 Speaker 1: of like what you're talking about, for you to begin 459 00:28:07,400 --> 00:28:09,680 Speaker 1: to hear the rhythms and and acting these things down. 460 00:28:09,960 --> 00:28:11,520 Speaker 1: He would do it so that he could see the 461 00:28:11,560 --> 00:28:14,960 Speaker 1: structure and began to study the structure of how scenes 462 00:28:15,000 --> 00:28:18,000 Speaker 1: were put together, how episodes were put together. So I 463 00:28:18,040 --> 00:28:21,400 Speaker 1: find that very interesting. Sorry to interrupt you, but no, no, no, no, 464 00:28:21,440 --> 00:28:24,520 Speaker 1: that's that's fantastic. That's that's amazing. I thought we were 465 00:28:24,560 --> 00:28:30,080 Speaker 1: just being kids, but literally, you know, we're like But 466 00:28:30,400 --> 00:28:33,720 Speaker 1: it was also specific scenes. I remember we would me 467 00:28:33,760 --> 00:28:37,399 Speaker 1: and my friend we would re enact bad Boys. Remember 468 00:28:37,400 --> 00:28:40,800 Speaker 1: that scene where Martin Layres is about to give run 469 00:28:40,800 --> 00:28:43,760 Speaker 1: over and Will Smith comes in the middle of the 470 00:28:43,800 --> 00:28:45,680 Speaker 1: street and picks them up and takes him off to 471 00:28:45,720 --> 00:28:47,640 Speaker 1: the other side, and he said, don't ever say that 472 00:28:47,640 --> 00:28:50,640 Speaker 1: I wasn't there for you. I We would re enact 473 00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:56,080 Speaker 1: that scene constantly, and if anyone is listening, Please don't 474 00:28:56,120 --> 00:28:58,880 Speaker 1: do what we did, because we would actually wait till 475 00:28:58,920 --> 00:29:02,280 Speaker 1: the traffic came up the hill and then trying to 476 00:29:02,320 --> 00:29:11,200 Speaker 1: do it. We do it with live cars. That's not what. No, God, 477 00:29:12,280 --> 00:29:20,040 Speaker 1: don't do don't follow my example. Please follow no at least. Yeah, 478 00:29:20,080 --> 00:29:22,040 Speaker 1: that was a game that I used to play, and 479 00:29:22,040 --> 00:29:23,440 Speaker 1: it was one time I got hit by a car. 480 00:29:23,520 --> 00:29:26,680 Speaker 1: But that's another story. But so don't do don't do 481 00:29:26,720 --> 00:29:28,880 Speaker 1: what I did. Don't do that. Don't do that. What 482 00:29:29,040 --> 00:29:32,840 Speaker 1: was the question I said? I got off topic. We so, yeah, 483 00:29:33,080 --> 00:29:36,320 Speaker 1: it's okay. I took us off the rails. I'm sure 484 00:29:36,680 --> 00:29:38,800 Speaker 1: you know you had so much experience at this point, 485 00:29:39,440 --> 00:29:43,120 Speaker 1: mirroring quite frankly again my experience of theater, and then 486 00:29:43,160 --> 00:29:45,680 Speaker 1: you begin to transition into film and television, and just 487 00:29:45,760 --> 00:29:49,120 Speaker 1: talking about that transition, did you get an agent? Did 488 00:29:49,160 --> 00:29:52,480 Speaker 1: you start working? How was that for you that time? 489 00:29:52,800 --> 00:29:56,760 Speaker 1: So when I moved to New York in while we 490 00:29:56,760 --> 00:29:59,200 Speaker 1: were doing a showcase, I got the attention of an 491 00:29:59,200 --> 00:30:02,920 Speaker 1: agent who wants to with now Jenna Winette of both 492 00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:05,760 Speaker 1: Winette Agency. Yeah, I love Jenna. I loved the team 493 00:30:06,000 --> 00:30:10,080 Speaker 1: there and continue doing theater because I was my wheelhouse. 494 00:30:10,520 --> 00:30:15,040 Speaker 1: But always wanted to dip my toe into television, and 495 00:30:15,080 --> 00:30:16,720 Speaker 1: the only way to get into it, or the only 496 00:30:16,720 --> 00:30:18,000 Speaker 1: way to get good at it, is you have to 497 00:30:18,000 --> 00:30:20,120 Speaker 1: get into it. And then you know, it's kind of 498 00:30:20,160 --> 00:30:23,120 Speaker 1: like this wheel around, you know. You know, they only 499 00:30:23,120 --> 00:30:24,960 Speaker 1: want to hire you unless you got the credit. You know, 500 00:30:25,040 --> 00:30:27,840 Speaker 1: to get credit, you gotta work that kind of thing. 501 00:30:27,960 --> 00:30:32,920 Speaker 1: So but I was able to do a small part 502 00:30:32,960 --> 00:30:36,280 Speaker 1: in Difficult People where I was the good Samaritan, uh 503 00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:40,120 Speaker 1: and that was fun. And then did diet Land and 504 00:30:40,240 --> 00:30:43,480 Speaker 1: Hunters and so with that. Because I didn't have the 505 00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:49,280 Speaker 1: training in television and film, I used my future colleagues 506 00:30:49,560 --> 00:30:52,800 Speaker 1: because I didn't know them at the time, as basically masterclasses. 507 00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:57,760 Speaker 1: I would study people on screen. I would watch television 508 00:30:57,800 --> 00:31:00,400 Speaker 1: film and just watch how they moved there eyes, how 509 00:31:00,440 --> 00:31:03,920 Speaker 1: they speak, how they hold their heads, intonation, everything, and 510 00:31:04,160 --> 00:31:07,720 Speaker 1: use that as my class when I couldn't afford to 511 00:31:07,760 --> 00:31:11,280 Speaker 1: go to these three classes with some of these top 512 00:31:11,360 --> 00:31:15,000 Speaker 1: casting directors and acting teachers, you know, and being one set, 513 00:31:15,040 --> 00:31:17,600 Speaker 1: having the experience, and you know, I was able to 514 00:31:17,640 --> 00:31:22,480 Speaker 1: get stronger and more confident and understand how to translate 515 00:31:22,600 --> 00:31:26,440 Speaker 1: ideas and emotions on screen that may or may not 516 00:31:26,520 --> 00:31:29,719 Speaker 1: work on stage. Because there are different mediums. Right, Your 517 00:31:29,760 --> 00:31:34,240 Speaker 1: audience in theater maybe three hundred, whereas your audience on 518 00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:36,840 Speaker 1: film maybe one, So you have to kind of translate. 519 00:31:36,960 --> 00:31:59,000 Speaker 1: It's it's all learning. Was all learning from me. How 520 00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:01,440 Speaker 1: did you find out about SAT France? Is this an 521 00:32:01,440 --> 00:32:04,800 Speaker 1: audition that came in from your agent? Oh my gosh, Brian. 522 00:32:05,480 --> 00:32:09,240 Speaker 1: So I was doing The Great Society two thousand nineteen, right, 523 00:32:09,880 --> 00:32:13,880 Speaker 1: we had just got wind that we were going to close. 524 00:32:14,320 --> 00:32:18,680 Speaker 1: We closed early, unfortunately, and I remember going in and 525 00:32:18,680 --> 00:32:21,680 Speaker 1: auditioning for this piece, and I had no idea what 526 00:32:21,680 --> 00:32:24,520 Speaker 1: this was. All I knew is that Ben Stiller was directing, 527 00:32:24,760 --> 00:32:26,520 Speaker 1: and I said, okay, sure, why not, let's give it 528 00:32:26,560 --> 00:32:30,480 Speaker 1: a shot. I went in an audition for it. Fine. 529 00:32:30,560 --> 00:32:34,720 Speaker 1: Didn't really hear back. Probably about two weeks later. I 530 00:32:35,240 --> 00:32:39,520 Speaker 1: think it was right before the holidays. I hear that 531 00:32:39,600 --> 00:32:42,480 Speaker 1: they that I've been selected for a callback to meet 532 00:32:42,720 --> 00:32:47,520 Speaker 1: with Ben Stiller and Dan Rickson, the writer and creative. 533 00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:50,920 Speaker 1: So January comes around, I'm getting ready to go to 534 00:32:50,960 --> 00:32:56,240 Speaker 1: my callback audition, and I am running like hell to 535 00:32:56,320 --> 00:33:00,760 Speaker 1: get there on time. I get on the bus, the 536 00:33:00,840 --> 00:33:04,160 Speaker 1: buses running late. The Google Maps tells me that I 537 00:33:04,200 --> 00:33:06,200 Speaker 1: should wait for another bus, but I don't have time 538 00:33:06,240 --> 00:33:09,200 Speaker 1: to wait for another bus, so I'm running down through 539 00:33:09,200 --> 00:33:14,240 Speaker 1: this industrial neighborhood of the Bronx. There's people driving with 540 00:33:14,400 --> 00:33:17,640 Speaker 1: old refrigerators on carts, passing me, looking at me like 541 00:33:17,680 --> 00:33:19,920 Speaker 1: I'm crazy because I have this fool suit on and 542 00:33:19,960 --> 00:33:23,200 Speaker 1: I'm sweating, you know. I turned the corner and there's 543 00:33:23,240 --> 00:33:25,840 Speaker 1: these group of guys. One guy looks at me and say, hey, 544 00:33:25,880 --> 00:33:27,560 Speaker 1: you want to see me kick this dude's ass. And 545 00:33:27,560 --> 00:33:29,360 Speaker 1: I was like, okay, maybe later when I come back, 546 00:33:29,400 --> 00:33:32,320 Speaker 1: and they laughed. And then I'm across the bridge, running 547 00:33:32,360 --> 00:33:35,120 Speaker 1: across this bridge like trying to get there. I get 548 00:33:35,160 --> 00:33:38,320 Speaker 1: to the lot. The audition happens to be on the 549 00:33:38,360 --> 00:33:40,520 Speaker 1: other side of the lot, which is an acre long, 550 00:33:40,640 --> 00:33:45,160 Speaker 1: so I'm running down down to the other side of 551 00:33:45,200 --> 00:33:48,400 Speaker 1: the studio and I finally get there, and it turns 552 00:33:48,440 --> 00:33:52,040 Speaker 1: out they were running late, so no one knew that 553 00:33:52,080 --> 00:33:55,280 Speaker 1: I was late, so it was fine. And I remember 554 00:33:55,640 --> 00:33:58,880 Speaker 1: doing the audition and making Ben laugh and I said 555 00:33:58,920 --> 00:34:02,240 Speaker 1: that has to be a good sign I made that 556 00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:09,840 Speaker 1: this is huge. And he told me that they have 557 00:34:09,960 --> 00:34:13,160 Speaker 1: to do auditions in l a Um so they'll see 558 00:34:13,200 --> 00:34:16,320 Speaker 1: what happens. And then I don't hear anything for a while, 559 00:34:16,600 --> 00:34:22,120 Speaker 1: I hear nothing, and eventually Rachel Tennor calls my manager 560 00:34:22,200 --> 00:34:26,399 Speaker 1: Tigren and says, oh, you know, Tremille got the role right, 561 00:34:27,640 --> 00:34:30,560 Speaker 1: Like wait, like just like going off, just like yeah, 562 00:34:30,600 --> 00:34:32,759 Speaker 1: you know you got it. You know he booked it right. Yeah, 563 00:34:32,800 --> 00:34:34,680 Speaker 1: he's great. You know he's great. He's great. Yeah, he 564 00:34:34,719 --> 00:34:37,520 Speaker 1: got it. And the deer calls me and I'm like 565 00:34:37,680 --> 00:34:40,160 Speaker 1: jumping up and down or running around at the apartment. 566 00:34:42,760 --> 00:34:45,400 Speaker 1: And then the rest, as I say, is history. Yeah 567 00:34:45,520 --> 00:34:47,920 Speaker 1: that's so. By the way, Rachel Tennor shout out to 568 00:34:48,000 --> 00:34:52,439 Speaker 1: Rachel Tennor, who's one of the best. Yes, fantastic. So 569 00:34:52,680 --> 00:34:57,560 Speaker 1: how much of Severance before you started filming? How many 570 00:34:57,600 --> 00:35:00,120 Speaker 1: episodes were you able to see? Was it U is 571 00:35:00,200 --> 00:35:03,680 Speaker 1: the first one? Like normal? Or or did you know 572 00:35:04,000 --> 00:35:08,160 Speaker 1: the journey? I guess that's a better question. How much 573 00:35:08,440 --> 00:35:13,040 Speaker 1: of his journey did you know before you started filming? Well, 574 00:35:13,080 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: so this is what's really interesting, because we started right 575 00:35:18,200 --> 00:35:21,600 Speaker 1: before the pandemic was right, So it was like and 576 00:35:21,719 --> 00:35:26,279 Speaker 1: I remember after a fitting getting the note that we 577 00:35:26,280 --> 00:35:29,200 Speaker 1: were shutting down for two weeks, and in the back 578 00:35:29,200 --> 00:35:30,640 Speaker 1: of my mind, I said, this is no way it's 579 00:35:30,640 --> 00:35:32,480 Speaker 1: gonna be two weeks. There's no way it's gonna be 580 00:35:32,520 --> 00:35:37,200 Speaker 1: two weeks. Then six months later we picked back up. 581 00:35:37,719 --> 00:35:41,919 Speaker 1: I start in October. So by that time I got 582 00:35:41,960 --> 00:35:45,360 Speaker 1: the script and I started to understand the premise of 583 00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:47,560 Speaker 1: the show, what was happening, and you know, so forth 584 00:35:47,600 --> 00:35:50,560 Speaker 1: and so on. What was interesting for me, it was 585 00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:54,359 Speaker 1: really key, was really trying to figure out who the 586 00:35:54,400 --> 00:35:57,680 Speaker 1: hell is milk Check in the midst of all of this, 587 00:35:58,480 --> 00:36:00,960 Speaker 1: you know, and how does he feel into this world, 588 00:36:01,600 --> 00:36:05,279 Speaker 1: and what is he gaining from this? And you know, 589 00:36:05,560 --> 00:36:09,120 Speaker 1: what is his motivations behind it? So that was my 590 00:36:09,200 --> 00:36:12,800 Speaker 1: homework to kind of really build a character that makes 591 00:36:12,920 --> 00:36:15,520 Speaker 1: sense in this world, right, you know, in the world 592 00:36:15,520 --> 00:36:18,239 Speaker 1: that doesn't make sense? Right? Yes, though it makes so 593 00:36:18,320 --> 00:36:21,239 Speaker 1: much sense to me. But yeah, so all right, So 594 00:36:21,320 --> 00:36:24,200 Speaker 1: let me ask you this specifically, how much did Dan 595 00:36:24,600 --> 00:36:28,319 Speaker 1: or and or Ben share with you about where your 596 00:36:28,440 --> 00:36:31,640 Speaker 1: character was going or did you just more talk about 597 00:36:31,840 --> 00:36:35,520 Speaker 1: just that first episode At that time, there was definitely 598 00:36:35,560 --> 00:36:39,839 Speaker 1: a conversation between Ben, Dan and I. They did not 599 00:36:40,239 --> 00:36:45,399 Speaker 1: fill me in about where he's going. It was more 600 00:36:45,520 --> 00:36:50,680 Speaker 1: it felt more like improv So what was helpful for 601 00:36:50,760 --> 00:36:56,000 Speaker 1: me was understanding where he came from. That was a 602 00:36:56,120 --> 00:37:01,080 Speaker 1: process in a discussion between myself and and then like 603 00:37:01,160 --> 00:37:04,360 Speaker 1: I had my own backstory, and then they had a backstory, 604 00:37:04,520 --> 00:37:07,120 Speaker 1: and then we kind of, you know, conferred about that, 605 00:37:07,200 --> 00:37:09,600 Speaker 1: and then we went from there, which was really fun 606 00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:15,120 Speaker 1: and how interesting our backstories were very similar, and reading 607 00:37:15,160 --> 00:37:17,800 Speaker 1: it was just you really just kind of you played 608 00:37:17,840 --> 00:37:20,480 Speaker 1: what was on the page. Now. This was also an 609 00:37:20,480 --> 00:37:27,279 Speaker 1: exercise where the character mill Check knew more than Trammel. Yes, right, 610 00:37:27,560 --> 00:37:30,200 Speaker 1: that's right. Tramail has no idea what the doats are 611 00:37:30,239 --> 00:37:33,520 Speaker 1: about where Miss Casey is going. I have no idea, 612 00:37:33,960 --> 00:37:36,680 Speaker 1: but mil Check you know what I mean? You know, 613 00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:39,000 Speaker 1: so it's like all of these things that you know, 614 00:37:39,080 --> 00:37:41,840 Speaker 1: you really have to just dive in and make a 615 00:37:41,920 --> 00:37:44,440 Speaker 1: choice as to what does mil Check no and what 616 00:37:44,480 --> 00:37:48,600 Speaker 1: does he not know? Which makes it fun. It's so fun. 617 00:37:48,760 --> 00:37:51,879 Speaker 1: And I think you said something that is what I 618 00:37:51,920 --> 00:37:55,120 Speaker 1: was really thinking about the second time watching it through, 619 00:37:55,680 --> 00:38:00,680 Speaker 1: which is is your brilliance in the show is you 620 00:38:00,880 --> 00:38:07,880 Speaker 1: are always in the moment and whatever your specific job is, 621 00:38:09,040 --> 00:38:13,440 Speaker 1: you are fully committed to that in the moment. And 622 00:38:13,560 --> 00:38:20,080 Speaker 1: that's what's so disarming about it because nobody is that way, like, right, 623 00:38:20,200 --> 00:38:23,520 Speaker 1: in real life you're always no. But I'm serious, like 624 00:38:24,080 --> 00:38:29,000 Speaker 1: you're always guarded or putting on a facade, or and 625 00:38:29,080 --> 00:38:31,320 Speaker 1: not that mill chick may not be putting on a facade. 626 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:36,000 Speaker 1: I wrote this down. There is an efficiency to you. 627 00:38:36,640 --> 00:38:41,480 Speaker 1: There is empathy you there you are empathetic and caring 628 00:38:41,680 --> 00:38:46,880 Speaker 1: at times, and you're also a psychopath, like all three 629 00:38:46,960 --> 00:38:53,080 Speaker 1: things simultaneously. At least within most episodes, you can do 630 00:38:53,160 --> 00:38:56,680 Speaker 1: those things. And I was thinking, it's like, I'll be honest, 631 00:38:56,719 --> 00:38:59,479 Speaker 1: I couldn't think of the third part, but it isn't 632 00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:01,600 Speaker 1: a weird way. And I started thinking, like, is this 633 00:39:01,680 --> 00:39:05,160 Speaker 1: why I'm responding so strongly to him? You are in 634 00:39:05,200 --> 00:39:10,239 Speaker 1: a way part Dwight Shrewt Like there is a there 635 00:39:10,320 --> 00:39:13,920 Speaker 1: is a commitment to the job, maybe better than like 636 00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:20,040 Speaker 1: a job efficient Dwight Shrewd slash prison guard. Because I'm 637 00:39:20,160 --> 00:39:24,920 Speaker 1: fascinated by, I'm sorry, just the mind fuck of the 638 00:39:24,960 --> 00:39:31,560 Speaker 1: situation where you are dealing with people who have the 639 00:39:31,640 --> 00:39:36,120 Speaker 1: same intelligence, the same general knowledge that they should have, 640 00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,759 Speaker 1: but they have no history except the history with you, 641 00:39:41,560 --> 00:39:45,720 Speaker 1: and you're like all of their mommies and Daddy's rolled 642 00:39:45,719 --> 00:39:48,200 Speaker 1: into one in a way, right, I mean, you know 643 00:39:48,400 --> 00:39:53,000 Speaker 1: you are introducing them and guiding them through this new world. 644 00:39:53,760 --> 00:39:57,840 Speaker 1: It's fascinating the way that everyone responds to you throughout 645 00:39:57,840 --> 00:40:01,600 Speaker 1: the journey of the show and how you interact with them. 646 00:40:01,640 --> 00:40:05,040 Speaker 1: And I think that what you said is so key 647 00:40:05,360 --> 00:40:08,400 Speaker 1: is that you are in the moment, always in the moment, 648 00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:14,319 Speaker 1: and performing the job that you have. Absolutely, were you 649 00:40:14,320 --> 00:40:17,880 Speaker 1: ever surprised about his journey? As you continued, were you 650 00:40:17,920 --> 00:40:24,239 Speaker 1: ever like, wait, that's what it was later on? Um, 651 00:40:25,520 --> 00:40:28,759 Speaker 1: I'm trying to remember what it was like when I 652 00:40:28,840 --> 00:40:32,960 Speaker 1: first got the script versus like the first episode. I 653 00:40:33,040 --> 00:40:37,560 Speaker 1: was absolutely intrigued. And as an actor, you know, we 654 00:40:37,680 --> 00:40:40,000 Speaker 1: do our part to fill in the blax right, because 655 00:40:40,040 --> 00:40:44,280 Speaker 1: we want to create these full dimensional beings, right, because 656 00:40:44,280 --> 00:40:46,560 Speaker 1: that's what makes it fun to play and also fun 657 00:40:46,640 --> 00:40:51,000 Speaker 1: to watch. But as these ideas that I had, or 658 00:40:51,040 --> 00:40:54,839 Speaker 1: these thoughts or ways about mill check, they all kind 659 00:40:54,840 --> 00:40:58,480 Speaker 1: of faded away as I stepped through as I continue 660 00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:03,759 Speaker 1: to go through the season. You know, the music dance experience. Yeah, 661 00:41:03,760 --> 00:41:05,759 Speaker 1: we're going to talk about the music dance experience at 662 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:09,880 Speaker 1: a second. Don't don't jump that, No, you're not up. 663 00:41:11,440 --> 00:41:15,320 Speaker 1: But there's references to the break room Adam Scott's character 664 00:41:15,480 --> 00:41:18,279 Speaker 1: is sent to the break room, takes over for Helly, 665 00:41:18,719 --> 00:41:21,680 Speaker 1: you know at one moment, and so you see this room, 666 00:41:21,719 --> 00:41:24,960 Speaker 1: but you don't know what happens in there. So until 667 00:41:25,120 --> 00:41:27,839 Speaker 1: you got the script for what happens in the break room, 668 00:41:28,080 --> 00:41:34,640 Speaker 1: you didn't know because the breakroom scene didn't materialize until 669 00:41:35,120 --> 00:41:39,759 Speaker 1: episode was an episode three into four. I believe that's right, 670 00:41:40,200 --> 00:41:43,400 Speaker 1: that's that's exactly, that's exactly what. So if you're reading 671 00:41:43,719 --> 00:41:47,360 Speaker 1: episode one and two, I believe there has made mention 672 00:41:47,800 --> 00:41:50,719 Speaker 1: of the break room, there is or made mention of 673 00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:53,680 Speaker 1: Mr Millichick is not as nice he can you know, 674 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:57,520 Speaker 1: he's yes, nice all the time. Yes, that's right. So 675 00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:02,960 Speaker 1: I was like, there's those clues that pop up, but oh, 676 00:42:03,080 --> 00:42:06,080 Speaker 1: we don't know how real it is. And so the 677 00:42:06,360 --> 00:42:08,320 Speaker 1: day I'm opened and then you see it, you know, 678 00:42:08,880 --> 00:42:12,000 Speaker 1: you know, it's occurring to me like I'm sounding like 679 00:42:12,200 --> 00:42:17,200 Speaker 1: a rube who's never worked in television before, thinking that 680 00:42:17,520 --> 00:42:20,440 Speaker 1: you had all the scripts before you started. I am 681 00:42:20,560 --> 00:42:22,759 Speaker 1: well aware that that's not normally how it works. The 682 00:42:23,000 --> 00:42:27,320 Speaker 1: world here, though, is so fascinating and confusing. It makes 683 00:42:27,520 --> 00:42:31,480 Speaker 1: me even more impressed with your performance that you were 684 00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:34,600 Speaker 1: not aware of everything at least that was going to 685 00:42:34,719 --> 00:42:38,680 Speaker 1: come in the future. I say empathy, which some people 686 00:42:38,719 --> 00:42:41,600 Speaker 1: could argue with if they've seen the show, because I 687 00:42:41,760 --> 00:42:46,960 Speaker 1: feel like, you know, unlike Cobel, played by the genius 688 00:42:47,040 --> 00:42:50,200 Speaker 1: Patricia Arquette, who is in my favorite underrated I always 689 00:42:50,200 --> 00:42:52,840 Speaker 1: call it my favorite underrated movie of all time true romance, 690 00:42:53,400 --> 00:42:57,840 Speaker 1: Cobell is not nice. There is not anything nice or 691 00:42:58,680 --> 00:43:03,480 Speaker 1: sympathetic about her, including um, without giving any spoilers away, 692 00:43:03,600 --> 00:43:06,480 Speaker 1: how she behaves in the audie world as we call it. 693 00:43:07,000 --> 00:43:11,000 Speaker 1: But I find I find a humanity within you at 694 00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:15,319 Speaker 1: times that is that's heartbreaking for me, and I think 695 00:43:16,200 --> 00:43:19,719 Speaker 1: makes it even more terrifying. I want to ask you this, 696 00:43:20,560 --> 00:43:25,640 Speaker 1: how many employees do you think are severed at luman 697 00:43:26,000 --> 00:43:31,640 Speaker 1: Oh my gosh, you're gonna get me in trouble. No, like, 698 00:43:32,040 --> 00:43:34,480 Speaker 1: how many do you think there are? It's so hard 699 00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:38,279 Speaker 1: for me to answer that question because this world is 700 00:43:38,400 --> 00:43:42,960 Speaker 1: so unexpected. And wait a minute, so you know, but 701 00:43:43,080 --> 00:43:45,879 Speaker 1: you can't tell. Is that what you're saying. I can't 702 00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,239 Speaker 1: even answer that likes it's like, you know, it's like, 703 00:43:50,480 --> 00:43:53,560 Speaker 1: it's it's so bizarre, I will say, I will say, 704 00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:57,280 Speaker 1: and this is what I've actually loved about reading, listening, 705 00:43:57,960 --> 00:44:02,239 Speaker 1: and experiencing people's theories at this show. Usually whatever we 706 00:44:02,440 --> 00:44:07,280 Speaker 1: think is happening is not happening. Yeah, that's a bullshit 707 00:44:07,320 --> 00:44:10,280 Speaker 1: answer that. Listen, that's a bull don't You can't bullshit 708 00:44:10,360 --> 00:44:13,440 Speaker 1: answer me. I'm not a reporter. I'm not a reporter 709 00:44:14,080 --> 00:44:16,839 Speaker 1: that you can give a bullshit answer to Listen. If 710 00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:20,239 Speaker 1: anyone understands I can't answer that question, I'll accept that. 711 00:44:21,239 --> 00:44:22,800 Speaker 1: Let me let me, let me, let me ask this 712 00:44:22,920 --> 00:44:25,600 Speaker 1: in another way. And I'm trying to think about things 713 00:44:25,640 --> 00:44:28,719 Speaker 1: that Cobell said, like do you think that this is 714 00:44:28,960 --> 00:44:32,879 Speaker 1: your group because you're around a lot, But again, who knows? 715 00:44:33,040 --> 00:44:36,759 Speaker 1: You're right? Maybe you've got seventy people you're dealing with. 716 00:44:36,920 --> 00:44:38,719 Speaker 1: You're sure, you sure spend a lot of time with 717 00:44:38,840 --> 00:44:41,920 Speaker 1: macro data refinement. Well you also got to remember you 718 00:44:42,000 --> 00:44:44,920 Speaker 1: also got to remember this O and D. No, of course, no, no, no, 719 00:44:45,040 --> 00:44:47,960 Speaker 1: of course, I know there's not just four. I apologize, yes, 720 00:44:48,040 --> 00:44:50,920 Speaker 1: of course, but it doesn't seem like you are with 721 00:44:51,160 --> 00:44:54,880 Speaker 1: them in the same way. So maybe you are. I 722 00:44:55,000 --> 00:44:58,440 Speaker 1: don't know. I mean, it's it can be misleading because 723 00:44:58,480 --> 00:45:02,000 Speaker 1: we only focus on m DR. You know what I mean, right, 724 00:45:02,560 --> 00:45:04,600 Speaker 1: And there there's a lot of time they're working that 725 00:45:04,680 --> 00:45:06,719 Speaker 1: we don't see. By the way, I was involved for 726 00:45:06,800 --> 00:45:09,239 Speaker 1: ten years in the television show where we saw us 727 00:45:09,320 --> 00:45:12,040 Speaker 1: do work exactly zero percent of the time. So I 728 00:45:12,280 --> 00:45:18,040 Speaker 1: get I get that, Like when was paper actually sold? 729 00:45:18,520 --> 00:45:23,760 Speaker 1: I'm not sure we only see the moments in severance 730 00:45:23,760 --> 00:45:27,200 Speaker 1: where they're not actually taking the numbers. All right, I'll 731 00:45:27,239 --> 00:45:31,520 Speaker 1: bail on that. M d E. The music dance experience, Uh, 732 00:45:31,719 --> 00:45:34,839 Speaker 1: the most talked about seeing look at you right now, 733 00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:38,600 Speaker 1: he's dancing right in front of me in a similarly 734 00:45:38,800 --> 00:45:43,360 Speaker 1: creepy way than he danced. Is that your go to? 735 00:45:43,600 --> 00:45:46,719 Speaker 1: Are those your go to moves? Or where they improvised? 736 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:49,839 Speaker 1: In the moment, it was totally improvised, So that means 737 00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:52,960 Speaker 1: that was your Those are your go to moves, Those 738 00:45:53,040 --> 00:45:57,200 Speaker 1: are mill checks go to moves. You know that's not 739 00:45:57,719 --> 00:46:00,400 Speaker 1: That's not you know what I'm saying. I'm more of 740 00:46:00,440 --> 00:46:03,080 Speaker 1: a hip guy. Yes, this was more of a this 741 00:46:03,239 --> 00:46:06,359 Speaker 1: was more of a shoulder chicken. I was thinking, it's 742 00:46:06,400 --> 00:46:11,640 Speaker 1: a little chicken e. But someone you have, you have 743 00:46:11,880 --> 00:46:16,360 Speaker 1: seen him behave in such a horrifying and that is 744 00:46:16,440 --> 00:46:20,520 Speaker 1: what is unsettling about your performance. And in some regards 745 00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,839 Speaker 1: to show. You have seen him behave in such an 746 00:46:23,960 --> 00:46:27,960 Speaker 1: unsettling way towards these people, and yet in this moment, 747 00:46:28,400 --> 00:46:33,399 Speaker 1: everyone has five minutes to just dance and have fun. 748 00:46:34,160 --> 00:46:37,120 Speaker 1: A little frivolity goes a long way. I want to 749 00:46:37,160 --> 00:46:41,120 Speaker 1: ask you about the turtleneck that suddenly appears. Is that 750 00:46:41,360 --> 00:46:44,920 Speaker 1: is that mil Chick's relaxed look? You know, I think 751 00:46:44,960 --> 00:46:48,360 Speaker 1: the music dance experience brings a different flavor, so he 752 00:46:48,480 --> 00:46:50,440 Speaker 1: wants to, you know, dress it down a little bit. 753 00:46:51,000 --> 00:46:54,200 Speaker 1: Like you also got to remember, like, dude, yes, mill 754 00:46:54,280 --> 00:46:58,080 Speaker 1: Chick has been doing some very questionable things and in 755 00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:01,600 Speaker 1: a moral things, but he's under a lot of pressure too. 756 00:47:02,080 --> 00:47:05,560 Speaker 1: You know, things went south once Helly came along and 757 00:47:05,680 --> 00:47:09,399 Speaker 1: Pete disappeared, and he's had to kind of he's had 758 00:47:09,480 --> 00:47:12,280 Speaker 1: to basically fix it. He had to be the fixer. 759 00:47:13,080 --> 00:47:17,040 Speaker 1: And every every episode things just get worse and worse 760 00:47:17,120 --> 00:47:21,320 Speaker 1: and worse and worse. So this music dance experience is 761 00:47:21,719 --> 00:47:23,920 Speaker 1: just as much for him as it is for them. 762 00:47:24,560 --> 00:47:26,320 Speaker 1: So I think it's like I need to let my 763 00:47:26,440 --> 00:47:28,520 Speaker 1: hair down a little bit, I need to let loose. 764 00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:31,399 Speaker 1: I'm gonna take my tie off and I'm gonna put 765 00:47:31,440 --> 00:47:33,759 Speaker 1: on this turtleneck because I like this turtleneck. I look 766 00:47:33,760 --> 00:47:36,439 Speaker 1: good in this turtleneck. It helps me move, it helps 767 00:47:36,480 --> 00:47:39,560 Speaker 1: you move, obviously, and he let's go, yeah, it's a 768 00:47:39,719 --> 00:47:45,640 Speaker 1: it's a stretchable fabric. But I have this, uh, this 769 00:47:45,920 --> 00:47:51,560 Speaker 1: water cup. It's basically a classic clear plastic. It is 770 00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:56,920 Speaker 1: the most utilitarian water glass in the world. It's just 771 00:47:57,239 --> 00:47:59,800 Speaker 1: that there. It is. It's clear, there's nothing about it. 772 00:48:00,520 --> 00:48:03,799 Speaker 1: And yet if you push the bottom of the water 773 00:48:03,960 --> 00:48:10,880 Speaker 1: glass there are flashing lights show up and make the 774 00:48:11,040 --> 00:48:16,480 Speaker 1: water turn like red and green and purple. This was 775 00:48:16,560 --> 00:48:18,879 Speaker 1: given to one of my children. I don't know why 776 00:48:19,040 --> 00:48:22,360 Speaker 1: we have this water glass, but I was thinking about 777 00:48:22,640 --> 00:48:26,200 Speaker 1: the music dance experience, and in some ways, Lumen in 778 00:48:26,360 --> 00:48:32,480 Speaker 1: that way, it's everything is so clean, lines utilitarian, and 779 00:48:32,880 --> 00:48:36,279 Speaker 1: ben still are by the way, like he emphasizes this 780 00:48:36,400 --> 00:48:41,120 Speaker 1: in his direction, so well, everything is that old, like 781 00:48:42,080 --> 00:48:47,200 Speaker 1: big chunky sixties seventies. I don't even know everything plugs in. 782 00:48:47,600 --> 00:48:51,480 Speaker 1: It's all so utilitarian. And then it's like Lumens, like, 783 00:48:52,000 --> 00:48:54,920 Speaker 1: you know, we want everything like this because nobody has 784 00:48:54,960 --> 00:48:57,480 Speaker 1: a history. We are just living here in the moment. 785 00:48:57,760 --> 00:49:00,680 Speaker 1: But just every once in a while, let's turn on 786 00:49:00,800 --> 00:49:04,800 Speaker 1: the light on the bottom of the water glass and 787 00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:09,719 Speaker 1: let it get a little funky. For no reason. I 788 00:49:09,880 --> 00:49:32,120 Speaker 1: love that idea. I just I love it talking about 789 00:49:32,160 --> 00:49:37,239 Speaker 1: being severed. The show is political. It is fascinating to me. 790 00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:43,440 Speaker 1: We talk all the time about work life separation or 791 00:49:43,560 --> 00:49:48,840 Speaker 1: integration or the balance between work and your home life. 792 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:51,800 Speaker 1: Talk to me a little bit about your thinking about 793 00:49:52,239 --> 00:49:56,080 Speaker 1: Severed and the ramifications of that, or the positives of that, 794 00:49:56,480 --> 00:50:00,440 Speaker 1: or why you think that Dan chose that. You know, 795 00:50:00,719 --> 00:50:02,880 Speaker 1: I get the question a lot of whether or not 796 00:50:03,000 --> 00:50:07,720 Speaker 1: I would go through the severed procedure, and I enthusiastically 797 00:50:07,880 --> 00:50:11,160 Speaker 1: say no, no, of course it's not for me, But 798 00:50:11,400 --> 00:50:15,160 Speaker 1: there is there's an understanding behind it, like I get it. 799 00:50:15,360 --> 00:50:19,120 Speaker 1: Does that empathy we use that word before, where people 800 00:50:19,320 --> 00:50:23,640 Speaker 1: we're going through so much pain or turmoil, frustration, or 801 00:50:24,320 --> 00:50:27,000 Speaker 1: where we need a little relief and we don't want 802 00:50:27,000 --> 00:50:32,080 Speaker 1: to take that turmoil into work, as we see with Mark, 803 00:50:32,719 --> 00:50:36,919 Speaker 1: you know, he's grieving. So with that, I can understand 804 00:50:37,600 --> 00:50:40,000 Speaker 1: why people need to just that we need to just 805 00:50:40,160 --> 00:50:44,360 Speaker 1: put it away. Myself as an actor and how I 806 00:50:44,640 --> 00:50:47,440 Speaker 1: pull so much of my own history, my own personal 807 00:50:47,560 --> 00:50:51,400 Speaker 1: experiences into my work, I wouldn't be able to do 808 00:50:51,600 --> 00:50:55,000 Speaker 1: that if I was severed and informs so much of 809 00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:57,920 Speaker 1: what we do. I don't know of any actor who 810 00:50:57,960 --> 00:51:01,319 Speaker 1: would be able to do that, you know, a effectively. Now, 811 00:51:01,400 --> 00:51:04,320 Speaker 1: if I was an accountant, you know, maybe you know, 812 00:51:04,440 --> 00:51:08,080 Speaker 1: it's you know, all different story that that will hope, 813 00:51:08,080 --> 00:51:10,440 Speaker 1: that that richness, you know, all of that, you know, 814 00:51:10,560 --> 00:51:13,440 Speaker 1: the good, the bad, the ugly, the in between, the uncertainty, 815 00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,680 Speaker 1: all of that. It feeds so much of who we are, 816 00:51:17,200 --> 00:51:21,959 Speaker 1: and it influences our decisions. I wouldn't want to take 817 00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:25,360 Speaker 1: that away, but I if there were family members and 818 00:51:25,480 --> 00:51:29,000 Speaker 1: friends who wanted to do that, you know, of course 819 00:51:29,120 --> 00:51:32,400 Speaker 1: I would be supportive of their decisions, but it's not 820 00:51:32,520 --> 00:51:36,480 Speaker 1: for me. Yeah, there's something that you just said that 821 00:51:36,680 --> 00:51:39,200 Speaker 1: triggered this thought, and I'm at least going to share 822 00:51:39,239 --> 00:51:41,240 Speaker 1: it with you. I don't know that it fully applies, 823 00:51:41,400 --> 00:51:45,239 Speaker 1: but you know, in life, kind of what I talked 824 00:51:45,280 --> 00:51:50,759 Speaker 1: about before, there's always a facade, or not always. There's 825 00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:55,080 Speaker 1: often a facade, or you behave differently around different groups 826 00:51:55,120 --> 00:51:58,719 Speaker 1: of people. When you're interacting with someone, your objectives may 827 00:51:58,760 --> 00:52:01,600 Speaker 1: be quite different from that person's objectives, even though you're 828 00:52:01,640 --> 00:52:05,359 Speaker 1: both pretending at the same time. That you both want 829 00:52:05,440 --> 00:52:07,880 Speaker 1: the same things, Like right, this is a part of life, 830 00:52:08,000 --> 00:52:12,040 Speaker 1: this negotiating moments. And I don't know if it fully relates, 831 00:52:12,160 --> 00:52:15,360 Speaker 1: but I just had a conversation with Jenna Elfman. She 832 00:52:15,520 --> 00:52:21,040 Speaker 1: talked about she loves the moment on set when someone 833 00:52:21,440 --> 00:52:25,520 Speaker 1: calls action because it's it's only in that moment. It's 834 00:52:25,560 --> 00:52:29,000 Speaker 1: the only time she feels like in life where you 835 00:52:29,120 --> 00:52:34,280 Speaker 1: have a hundred hundreds of people who are all everyone 836 00:52:34,400 --> 00:52:39,040 Speaker 1: agrees on what the objective is until someone says cut. 837 00:52:40,440 --> 00:52:45,879 Speaker 1: Everyone is working toward getting the shot, about playing your 838 00:52:45,960 --> 00:52:50,719 Speaker 1: specific role. You know what you're playing. The wardrobe people 839 00:52:50,880 --> 00:52:54,480 Speaker 1: knows the look, the makeup people knows whether there's sweat 840 00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:57,920 Speaker 1: on the brow or not. Like the lighting, everyone is 841 00:52:58,000 --> 00:53:00,359 Speaker 1: looking for the greatest angle. And it's all of these 842 00:53:00,440 --> 00:53:06,680 Speaker 1: people working together with no outside objectives happening in that moment, 843 00:53:06,960 --> 00:53:08,560 Speaker 1: and it's one of the only times in life that 844 00:53:08,719 --> 00:53:11,080 Speaker 1: everybody is sort of on the same page. And she 845 00:53:11,239 --> 00:53:13,320 Speaker 1: loves that. And I told her I would never forget it. 846 00:53:13,880 --> 00:53:17,719 Speaker 1: And I'm thinking about it somehow now, thinking about the 847 00:53:17,880 --> 00:53:21,600 Speaker 1: severed world and and separating those two things, and it 848 00:53:21,800 --> 00:53:25,080 Speaker 1: seems to me that that's what you know, the Egans 849 00:53:25,520 --> 00:53:28,439 Speaker 1: and Lumen are are sort of going for anyway, Let's 850 00:53:28,480 --> 00:53:32,399 Speaker 1: try to create an environment where there is no other 851 00:53:32,600 --> 00:53:36,200 Speaker 1: history outside of it, so that for these eight hours, 852 00:53:36,760 --> 00:53:39,480 Speaker 1: everyone is working to do just one thing because they 853 00:53:39,520 --> 00:53:42,520 Speaker 1: don't know of anything else, right, which is such a 854 00:53:42,800 --> 00:53:46,960 Speaker 1: sick way to achieve that goal. But it seems to 855 00:53:47,040 --> 00:53:50,279 Speaker 1: me that there's something in it there, right, like, let's 856 00:53:50,320 --> 00:53:58,560 Speaker 1: eliminate all history, all opinion, all politics, all religion, all everything, 857 00:53:58,680 --> 00:54:00,560 Speaker 1: and just put these people there and have them do 858 00:54:00,680 --> 00:54:04,960 Speaker 1: a job. That's a very idealistic way of looking at 859 00:54:05,040 --> 00:54:10,279 Speaker 1: it that I think that would be true if there 860 00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:15,400 Speaker 1: wasn't the Egan philosophies. You know, there's so many of 861 00:54:15,480 --> 00:54:19,480 Speaker 1: these images and these sayings. And of course that's that's 862 00:54:19,520 --> 00:54:24,080 Speaker 1: where the threat of the book from Mark's brother in law. Yes, 863 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:28,320 Speaker 1: that's the threat of when Ricken's book shows up, because 864 00:54:28,400 --> 00:54:31,040 Speaker 1: now these are new ideas and these are new concepts, 865 00:54:31,160 --> 00:54:35,720 Speaker 1: and we can't have outside philosophies. There's that idealistic idea, 866 00:54:35,920 --> 00:54:40,000 Speaker 1: But with the whole I guess mind bending, mind control, 867 00:54:40,440 --> 00:54:43,560 Speaker 1: it kind of has a different edge to it. Yeah, 868 00:54:43,920 --> 00:54:47,480 Speaker 1: for sure. And part of the missive email that I 869 00:54:47,560 --> 00:54:50,560 Speaker 1: wrote from thirty five thousand feet after finishing your show, 870 00:54:51,840 --> 00:54:58,360 Speaker 1: I I really said, this is the new The Office 871 00:54:58,560 --> 00:55:01,960 Speaker 1: in a way. I mean obvious, Lee, It's totally different. 872 00:55:02,520 --> 00:55:06,000 Speaker 1: The tone is totally different, the style is totally different. 873 00:55:06,200 --> 00:55:09,239 Speaker 1: It's not it's very funny to me, but it's not 874 00:55:09,360 --> 00:55:13,480 Speaker 1: a comedy at all, but in a weird way. The 875 00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:16,959 Speaker 1: central character of Michael Scott on The Office, his entire 876 00:55:17,160 --> 00:55:21,160 Speaker 1: journey was about finding work life balance, like that is 877 00:55:21,719 --> 00:55:25,600 Speaker 1: what it was for him, and that the Office existed 878 00:55:26,360 --> 00:55:29,640 Speaker 1: as his personal life. He had nothing else outside of it. 879 00:55:30,360 --> 00:55:35,440 Speaker 1: There's echoes, there's similar things sort of happening as our 880 00:55:35,480 --> 00:55:39,279 Speaker 1: favorite employees at at Lumen and Macro Data Refinement began 881 00:55:39,400 --> 00:55:42,520 Speaker 1: to search for for other things. I find that interesting. 882 00:55:42,920 --> 00:55:47,080 Speaker 1: Obviously I'm not the only one who is enjoying severance. 883 00:55:47,160 --> 00:55:50,560 Speaker 1: It's gotten a lot of critical acclaim. How has that 884 00:55:50,640 --> 00:55:56,719 Speaker 1: impacted you? I've been blown away how people have embraced 885 00:55:56,800 --> 00:56:00,120 Speaker 1: this show. You've been in television, you know, there's no 886 00:56:00,640 --> 00:56:03,239 Speaker 1: specific formula. We never know if a show is gonna 887 00:56:03,280 --> 00:56:05,799 Speaker 1: work or if it's going to be successful. I knew 888 00:56:05,880 --> 00:56:07,560 Speaker 1: that I wanted to be a part of it because 889 00:56:07,600 --> 00:56:11,040 Speaker 1: it was different. It's a new idea. There's so many 890 00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:15,560 Speaker 1: elements to it. There's comedy, there's there's a romance, there's thriller, 891 00:56:15,719 --> 00:56:19,759 Speaker 1: there's psychological elements to it. It's it's fantastic, but to 892 00:56:19,880 --> 00:56:22,520 Speaker 1: see how many people have flocked to it and have 893 00:56:22,640 --> 00:56:26,920 Speaker 1: found themselves implicated and it is really rewarding. And also 894 00:56:27,160 --> 00:56:29,520 Speaker 1: like the top pieces that have surfaced. You know, New 895 00:56:29,640 --> 00:56:32,360 Speaker 1: York Times wrote an article about it, The l A Times, 896 00:56:32,440 --> 00:56:35,719 Speaker 1: you know, all of these local newspapers have talked about 897 00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,440 Speaker 1: blogs have gone about severance and what it has meant 898 00:56:39,480 --> 00:56:42,080 Speaker 1: to them, and it's a part of a national conversation 899 00:56:42,239 --> 00:56:47,360 Speaker 1: and even international as well. I didn't realize how it 900 00:56:47,560 --> 00:56:51,640 Speaker 1: impacted me individually until I was in l A at 901 00:56:52,000 --> 00:56:55,759 Speaker 1: a f y C event and I remember getting out 902 00:56:55,800 --> 00:56:59,040 Speaker 1: of the car. We had Harmony Gold, and I remember 903 00:56:59,080 --> 00:57:00,960 Speaker 1: getting out of the car, by the way, that's for 904 00:57:01,160 --> 00:57:04,239 Speaker 1: your consideration, that's a for your consideration, and I'm I'm 905 00:57:04,320 --> 00:57:07,600 Speaker 1: letting everyone knows, yes, we're talking MS here now, which 906 00:57:07,640 --> 00:57:10,680 Speaker 1: I've promised to get trammel one by the way. So 907 00:57:13,840 --> 00:57:16,360 Speaker 1: so I remember getting out of the car and seeing 908 00:57:16,680 --> 00:57:19,960 Speaker 1: a group of people behind the gate standing with what 909 00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:23,360 Speaker 1: looked like to me signs. So immediately in my mind. 910 00:57:23,400 --> 00:57:26,640 Speaker 1: I'm thinking this is a protest. They're protesting. Oh gosh, 911 00:57:26,720 --> 00:57:31,560 Speaker 1: what's go I was. I was like, okay, alright, it's 912 00:57:31,560 --> 00:57:37,680 Speaker 1: a revolution, let's go, let's raise our I walk. I 913 00:57:37,840 --> 00:57:42,560 Speaker 1: walk into the venue in this like grassy area that 914 00:57:43,200 --> 00:57:45,840 Speaker 1: has a bar and all these tables, and the people 915 00:57:45,880 --> 00:57:49,080 Speaker 1: are standing outside the gate and they're screaming our names. 916 00:57:49,840 --> 00:57:52,800 Speaker 1: They're screaming our names. And immediately I go into shock 917 00:57:53,080 --> 00:57:55,760 Speaker 1: because I'm thinking, what is going on? What's happening? What 918 00:57:56,040 --> 00:57:57,880 Speaker 1: you know? They're calling my name? And I was like, 919 00:57:57,920 --> 00:58:00,320 Speaker 1: do I owe somebody money? Like somebody coming get me? 920 00:58:00,480 --> 00:58:04,960 Speaker 1: Like what is having it like? And my manager calls 921 00:58:05,080 --> 00:58:07,720 Speaker 1: me and he says, hey, can you come get me. 922 00:58:07,760 --> 00:58:09,200 Speaker 1: I'm on the other side of the gate. So I 923 00:58:09,720 --> 00:58:11,920 Speaker 1: go get him and I look in his eyes and 924 00:58:11,960 --> 00:58:14,040 Speaker 1: he's like, Tromel, are you okay? You like you look 925 00:58:14,120 --> 00:58:15,880 Speaker 1: like your friends with And I was like, you know, 926 00:58:16,000 --> 00:58:17,520 Speaker 1: come on in. So I talked to him. I was like, 927 00:58:17,600 --> 00:58:19,680 Speaker 1: this is intense. They started screaming my name and I'm 928 00:58:19,720 --> 00:58:20,840 Speaker 1: like I don't know what to do. And it's like 929 00:58:21,120 --> 00:58:25,560 Speaker 1: and he says, Tramel, they're fans. They're fans of you, 930 00:58:25,960 --> 00:58:29,600 Speaker 1: and they're of the show that they love your autographed 931 00:58:30,080 --> 00:58:35,880 Speaker 1: and I'm like, wait what and so totally over my head, 932 00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:39,560 Speaker 1: I'm like thinking, this is the upheaval and you know, 933 00:58:39,920 --> 00:58:46,040 Speaker 1: social unrest. So I eventually calmed down and I go 934 00:58:46,240 --> 00:58:50,200 Speaker 1: over and I signed and and take pictures behind the gate. 935 00:58:50,480 --> 00:58:52,919 Speaker 1: And it was wonderful. There was sweet everyone was great, 936 00:58:53,160 --> 00:58:54,800 Speaker 1: and it had nothing to do with them. It was 937 00:58:54,880 --> 00:58:57,600 Speaker 1: just me, you know, responding to it. But you know, 938 00:58:57,760 --> 00:59:01,960 Speaker 1: here I was in this space of enjoying the animmity 939 00:59:02,360 --> 00:59:05,120 Speaker 1: and now you're walking around in the streets of l 940 00:59:05,200 --> 00:59:09,240 Speaker 1: A and people recognize you if they recognize you, because 941 00:59:09,280 --> 00:59:11,720 Speaker 1: I'm a little fortunate here because I can. I have 942 00:59:11,840 --> 00:59:13,440 Speaker 1: a mask one so you can't see if I have 943 00:59:13,560 --> 00:59:16,800 Speaker 1: my mustache, and my hair is different and my energy 944 00:59:17,000 --> 00:59:19,720 Speaker 1: as milk Check is different than Tramil, so I can 945 00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:23,280 Speaker 1: kind of blend in a little bit. Yeah, yeah, good luck, 946 00:59:23,440 --> 00:59:25,959 Speaker 1: good luck with that. Although I guess you're a little 947 00:59:26,000 --> 00:59:28,960 Speaker 1: better than I am. Here's my one piece of advice 948 00:59:29,040 --> 00:59:30,680 Speaker 1: for you, because you're going to get this a lot. Yes, 949 00:59:30,840 --> 00:59:33,600 Speaker 1: you can thank me later when someone comes up to 950 00:59:33,680 --> 00:59:37,120 Speaker 1: you and says, are you milk Check? Do me a favor. 951 00:59:37,200 --> 00:59:42,040 Speaker 1: I'm starting a revolution just answer sometimes that's all you 952 00:59:42,120 --> 00:59:46,400 Speaker 1: need to say is sometimes because it's the most awkward 953 00:59:46,520 --> 00:59:50,200 Speaker 1: question in the world, because I all, I struggle with 954 00:59:50,280 --> 00:59:53,200 Speaker 1: this still to this day. It's like, well, yes, I 955 00:59:53,320 --> 00:59:57,760 Speaker 1: am hello. They're like, it's so like weird saying no. 956 00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:02,040 Speaker 1: It's accurate, but still the rude. So I say, I 957 01:00:02,160 --> 01:00:07,320 Speaker 1: say sometimes you talked earlier about studying your future colleagues 958 01:00:07,880 --> 01:00:10,400 Speaker 1: to try to hone your craft in film and television. 959 01:00:10,560 --> 01:00:14,640 Speaker 1: I mean, you're working alongside well, some of my heroes 960 01:00:14,800 --> 01:00:19,600 Speaker 1: in the business as well, Christopher Walkin, Patricia Arquette, John Tuturo, 961 01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:24,120 Speaker 1: just to name three out of a whole slew. How 962 01:00:24,200 --> 01:00:27,240 Speaker 1: has that been for you working with those people that 963 01:00:27,360 --> 01:00:31,000 Speaker 1: you used to watch every day to get better. It's humbling. 964 01:00:31,240 --> 01:00:34,040 Speaker 1: There are moments where I am completely awestruck that this 965 01:00:34,200 --> 01:00:37,120 Speaker 1: is happening, you know. And what's so beautiful is that 966 01:00:37,280 --> 01:00:41,680 Speaker 1: each of those persons that you named and everyone else 967 01:00:41,800 --> 01:00:44,320 Speaker 1: the part of this cast has been an absolute delight 968 01:00:44,680 --> 01:00:49,400 Speaker 1: And they don't have to be you know, there's just kind, genuine, warm, 969 01:00:50,160 --> 01:00:53,760 Speaker 1: loving people and I am so grateful to not just 970 01:00:53,880 --> 01:00:55,880 Speaker 1: be a part of this show, but to also just 971 01:00:56,040 --> 01:01:00,920 Speaker 1: share space with these beings. Just sit, stand back and 972 01:01:01,360 --> 01:01:04,600 Speaker 1: sit and watch them play. Some of my favorite scenes 973 01:01:04,720 --> 01:01:08,000 Speaker 1: on set is when I say nothing and I'm watching 974 01:01:08,080 --> 01:01:12,480 Speaker 1: them work. It's fantastic. One that's awesome, and too, that's 975 01:01:13,280 --> 01:01:16,240 Speaker 1: so great to hear. I know you do a lot 976 01:01:16,280 --> 01:01:18,760 Speaker 1: of advocacy work. Talk to me a little bit about 977 01:01:18,800 --> 01:01:21,800 Speaker 1: what the arts has done for you and why it's 978 01:01:21,840 --> 01:01:24,040 Speaker 1: so important for you and the work that you do. 979 01:01:24,600 --> 01:01:27,440 Speaker 1: The arts saved my life. Man. It gave me a 980 01:01:27,560 --> 01:01:30,440 Speaker 1: voice when I felt I didn't have a voice. It 981 01:01:30,920 --> 01:01:33,760 Speaker 1: gave me a sense of empathy and compassion for other 982 01:01:33,840 --> 01:01:37,680 Speaker 1: people's situations. It taught me to listen. The arts taught 983 01:01:37,720 --> 01:01:41,760 Speaker 1: me to listen to people, how to listen. I dealt with, 984 01:01:42,080 --> 01:01:45,760 Speaker 1: and I still deal with, depression and anxiety and PTSD, 985 01:01:46,040 --> 01:01:49,520 Speaker 1: and the arts gives me a footing, a grounding, a 986 01:01:49,600 --> 01:01:51,800 Speaker 1: way to connect with people in a way that I 987 01:01:52,240 --> 01:01:55,280 Speaker 1: don't think I would have had. I remember when I 988 01:01:55,400 --> 01:01:58,040 Speaker 1: was doing a Christmas Carol at the Clarence Brown Theater. 989 01:01:58,360 --> 01:02:01,000 Speaker 1: It was the same time as the Sandy Hook shooting. 990 01:02:01,280 --> 01:02:04,600 Speaker 1: I was playing Bob Pratchett and I will never forget 991 01:02:04,680 --> 01:02:08,880 Speaker 1: the scene of Christmas Yet to Come where Tiny Tim 992 01:02:08,960 --> 01:02:13,800 Speaker 1: dies And before that show I remember looking at CNN 993 01:02:14,040 --> 01:02:18,840 Speaker 1: and watching this massacre and watching these children being carted away, 994 01:02:19,320 --> 01:02:23,320 Speaker 1: and the absolute anguish of the faces of the teachers 995 01:02:23,400 --> 01:02:26,920 Speaker 1: and the parents, and I wept in my dressing room 996 01:02:26,960 --> 01:02:29,360 Speaker 1: for twenty minutes before I did that show, and when 997 01:02:29,440 --> 01:02:31,760 Speaker 1: we did Christmas Yet to Come, when that scene came up, 998 01:02:31,840 --> 01:02:37,120 Speaker 1: I kept thinking about those stretchers and those bodies, and 999 01:02:37,200 --> 01:02:40,560 Speaker 1: those families that would never get to hug their children again. 1000 01:02:40,960 --> 01:02:45,040 Speaker 1: And I walked on stage and immediately I was filled 1001 01:02:45,640 --> 01:02:50,200 Speaker 1: with grief and a pain that I wasn't really too 1002 01:02:50,280 --> 01:02:54,840 Speaker 1: familiar with. And in that audience, it was as if 1003 01:02:55,360 --> 01:02:58,920 Speaker 1: we had never experienced this moment in Christmas Carol before. 1004 01:02:59,160 --> 01:03:01,520 Speaker 1: I mean Christmas Care as a show that people come 1005 01:03:01,600 --> 01:03:04,080 Speaker 1: with their families and they watch it all the time 1006 01:03:04,160 --> 01:03:06,040 Speaker 1: and they know what's coming. But it was in this 1007 01:03:06,320 --> 01:03:10,560 Speaker 1: moment where I felt that we all breathed together as 1008 01:03:10,600 --> 01:03:14,920 Speaker 1: a community and mourned the loss of those children and 1009 01:03:15,080 --> 01:03:18,320 Speaker 1: those teachers, right there on that stage, and no one 1010 01:03:18,440 --> 01:03:21,840 Speaker 1: said a word, no one had to authenticate the moment. 1011 01:03:21,960 --> 01:03:23,840 Speaker 1: It was just right there. And I remember at the 1012 01:03:23,920 --> 01:03:27,760 Speaker 1: corner of my eye the gentleman playing Scrooge, David Cordmaier 1013 01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:31,440 Speaker 1: was weeping in a way I've never seen David Cortermyer 1014 01:03:31,520 --> 01:03:34,280 Speaker 1: week And at the end he came up to me 1015 01:03:34,440 --> 01:03:37,160 Speaker 1: and he said, Christmas yet to come, and I nodded 1016 01:03:37,360 --> 01:03:39,919 Speaker 1: and he nodded, and we never said anything else about 1017 01:03:39,960 --> 01:03:42,160 Speaker 1: it from there, And it was that moment that I 1018 01:03:42,280 --> 01:03:48,240 Speaker 1: realized the transformative power of theater of storytelling, of how 1019 01:03:48,360 --> 01:03:52,520 Speaker 1: it connects all of us and unites people of many 1020 01:03:52,640 --> 01:03:59,840 Speaker 1: different generations. Social economic status is racial identities, sexual identities, orientations, 1021 01:04:00,280 --> 01:04:04,000 Speaker 1: It connects us. And my hope is that with my 1022 01:04:04,160 --> 01:04:08,760 Speaker 1: continuation in the arts, that we will establish a platform 1023 01:04:08,960 --> 01:04:13,680 Speaker 1: for people to have conversations much like Severance incorporations, and 1024 01:04:14,320 --> 01:04:18,720 Speaker 1: conversations about well being and mental health and gun control 1025 01:04:18,880 --> 01:04:24,520 Speaker 1: and abortion and LGBT rights and educational equity, all of that. 1026 01:04:25,040 --> 01:04:27,280 Speaker 1: That's why I do what I do, and I love it, 1027 01:04:27,720 --> 01:04:30,080 Speaker 1: and I believe in the power of what it can do. 1028 01:04:30,800 --> 01:04:34,080 Speaker 1: That's awesome well for what it's worth me too, So 1029 01:04:34,640 --> 01:04:38,440 Speaker 1: thank you for that and that story. I wish you 1030 01:04:39,200 --> 01:04:43,240 Speaker 1: nothing but the best in your future in your continuing 1031 01:04:43,400 --> 01:04:50,560 Speaker 1: role on Severance. Your performance is genius. You are a chameleon, 1032 01:04:51,040 --> 01:04:56,000 Speaker 1: but a delightful chameleon that it makes it impossible for 1033 01:04:56,400 --> 01:04:58,760 Speaker 1: me at least to keep my eyes off you. So 1034 01:04:58,840 --> 01:05:02,800 Speaker 1: I wish you all of the best in your upcoming 1035 01:05:03,680 --> 01:05:09,480 Speaker 1: f y see events. It's it's my new favorite show 1036 01:05:09,520 --> 01:05:12,880 Speaker 1: on television and you are a huge part of that. 1037 01:05:13,240 --> 01:05:16,440 Speaker 1: So thank you so much, thank you for joining me, 1038 01:05:16,680 --> 01:05:19,560 Speaker 1: and good luck to you and uh, I can't wait. 1039 01:05:19,560 --> 01:05:22,160 Speaker 1: I can't wait for new episodes. Yeah, me too, looking 1040 01:05:22,200 --> 01:05:37,520 Speaker 1: forward to it. Thank you so much, Brian, Thanks T Dramel. 1041 01:05:38,400 --> 01:05:41,200 Speaker 1: It was such a pleasure talking to you today, meeting 1042 01:05:41,280 --> 01:05:45,680 Speaker 1: you and of course hearing about severance. Trust me when 1043 01:05:45,720 --> 01:05:50,040 Speaker 1: I say that I will be rewatching this show until 1044 01:05:50,120 --> 01:05:52,680 Speaker 1: season two comes out. I can't get enough, and I 1045 01:05:52,800 --> 01:05:57,960 Speaker 1: swear I noticed something new every single time. Listeners, I 1046 01:05:58,120 --> 01:06:02,000 Speaker 1: cannot recommend seven rints to you more, so make sure 1047 01:06:02,080 --> 01:06:05,040 Speaker 1: to check it out if you haven't already. And as always, 1048 01:06:05,480 --> 01:06:08,640 Speaker 1: thank you for joining me today on Off the Beat. 1049 01:06:08,800 --> 01:06:13,240 Speaker 1: I will see you soon for another conversation, same time, 1050 01:06:13,800 --> 01:06:25,920 Speaker 1: same place, next week. Can't wait. Off the Beat is 1051 01:06:26,000 --> 01:06:30,200 Speaker 1: hosted an executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our 1052 01:06:30,240 --> 01:06:35,120 Speaker 1: executive producer Langley. Our producers are Diego Tapia, Liz Hayes, 1053 01:06:35,280 --> 01:06:39,320 Speaker 1: Emily Carr and Hannah Harris. Our talent producer is Ryan 1054 01:06:39,520 --> 01:06:43,880 Speaker 1: Papa Zachary. Our theme song Bubble and Squeak performed by 1055 01:06:43,960 --> 01:06:47,720 Speaker 1: my great friend Creed Bratton, and the episode was mixed 1056 01:06:47,880 --> 01:06:49,080 Speaker 1: by seth Olandski