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Speaker 1: Oh boy, what a great day. I'm feeling so good.

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Speaker 1: You know what, I'm just gonna Oh, what's that, Sophie,

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Speaker 1: there's a knock at the door. Should should we? Should

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Speaker 1: we see who it is? I mean, yeah, why it's

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Speaker 1: Dan and Jordan's from Knowledge Fight. I had to come

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Speaker 1: running when I heard that weird noise come out of

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Speaker 1: your mouth. Check on you. All I want to say

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Speaker 1: is thank you, thank you. Normally it's my atonal grunting

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Speaker 1: that opens the show. I don't know how you guys.

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Speaker 1: You have a you have a great song to lead you,

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Speaker 1: and I don't know how you so consistently open a

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Speaker 1: show without just grunting and moaning. We do that under

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Speaker 1: the theme song turned off. We're just getting stretching before

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Speaker 1: you go run a marathon. You guys just go just

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Speaker 1: putting out on wet and like heavy, heavy breathing up. Hello, God,

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Speaker 1: you're Jordan's You're Dan of the podcast Knowledge Fight and

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Speaker 1: also in Dan's case of the legal effort to see

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Speaker 1: Alex Jones for repeatedly doing crimes. Yeah, it's weird that

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Speaker 1: maybe a credit now, I guess I was a yeah,

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Speaker 1: consulting expert on uh the the latest deposition that Alex

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Speaker 1: did in the Texas cases. People have pointed out multiple

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Speaker 1: times that on like episode three or four of our show,

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Speaker 1: we I made the joke that he would be involved

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Speaker 1: somehow in the lawsuit, and we laughed and laughed and laughed.

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Speaker 1: Seven hundred episodes later. I remember when I first started

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Speaker 1: listening to your show, because I was doing the Behind

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Speaker 1: the Bastards episodes on Alex Jones. I was like, God,

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Speaker 1: I fucking hope someone involved in the case against him

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Speaker 1: knows about these guys, because they are they are uncovering

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Speaker 1: damning stuff every week. It should probably be involved in

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Speaker 1: the case. It's finally finally came about and uh yeah,

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Speaker 1: good times. Yeah yeah, well congratulations. Would you like to

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Speaker 1: talk about something completely different from Alex Jones. I think

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Speaker 1: that would be a delight. So here's a spoiler. I

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Speaker 1: I lied. I lied to you. It's it's not complete.

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Speaker 1: It's not it's it's a precursor to Alex Jones. Um.

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Speaker 1: This is a story about how the wealthy in America

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Speaker 1: eight and transformed Christianity. Uh that's fun. Yeah, yeah, that

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Speaker 1: this is this is a story that is adjacent to

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Speaker 1: the story of the John Birch society. They're not gonna

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Speaker 1: come into it much here, but they are. They are involved. Um.

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Speaker 1: And it is a story that is adjacent to the

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Speaker 1: rise of Alex Jones, because obviously he's heavily influenced by

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Speaker 1: the John Birch society. This is this is a pre person.

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Speaker 1: We've talked on this show a bunch, and I know

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Speaker 1: y'all are very well aware that like seventy two, ish,

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Speaker 1: was the first time the religious right was like a

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Speaker 1: political block in the country. Right, You've got fallwell and

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Speaker 1: these people kind of we welding Billy Graham welding the

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Speaker 1: right wing into a Republican coalition for the first time. Um.

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Speaker 1: But that only was able to happen because of a

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Speaker 1: process that got started in the nineteen thirties. And that's

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Speaker 1: what we're going to talk about today. I mean, I

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Speaker 1: would have argued that the first was the Crusades, but

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Speaker 1: you know, it's very similar politicized the Crusades. Sometimes people look,

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Speaker 1: people were just vibe vibing, you know, modes on horseback,

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Speaker 1: al armies, a children getting sold into slavery, not a

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Speaker 1: cell phone insight. You know, it was non apartisan. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: it's the important thing about it. Yeah, and that's exactly right.

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Speaker 1: Every we were able to put down all of our

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Speaker 1: petty disagreements to deluge Jerusalem in a river of blood,

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Speaker 1: trickle down economics andized mass killings. I like that. You

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Speaker 1: asked if we want to talk about something other than

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Speaker 1: Alex and I was like, Hey, maybe something light and breezy.

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Speaker 1: Absolutely not. Maybe maybe it was going to be an

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Speaker 1: episode about the bagel Boss. This episode is is going

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Speaker 1: to be me reading you letters that different millionaires sent

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Speaker 1: each other talking about how to destroy democracy. Sounds about right?

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Speaker 1: That sounds good? Yeah. Um, you know, I I'm a

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Speaker 1: big advocate fan of interested in storytelling. I think it's

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Speaker 1: probably the most powerful thing that people do. Um, you

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Speaker 1: don't get no empire or social movement or civilization gets

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Speaker 1: anywhere without like having a set of stories that the

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Speaker 1: people who are inside that thing believe, and that really,

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Speaker 1: to a significant amount, determines reality. Right. There's a degree

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Speaker 1: to which you can kind of ignore even physical reality

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Speaker 1: if the stories are strong enough, as uh, some of

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Speaker 1: our um, some of our anti vax and anti anti

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Speaker 1: vaccine friends can candid test you know. There's limits to that.

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Speaker 1: But it's it's it's it's a pretty powerful thing. If

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Speaker 1: you can get people to believe a story, even a

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Speaker 1: ridiculous one, Um, you can. You can get them to

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Speaker 1: do almost anything. And capitalism itself thrives because of the

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Speaker 1: stories people tell about it. The reality, of course, is

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Speaker 1: that capitalism is a system that was cobbled together by

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Speaker 1: a handful of rich people in the sixteen hundreds and

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Speaker 1: seventeen hundreds. They created the first corporations, which allowed them

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Speaker 1: to pull their money, share risk and profits for risky

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Speaker 1: ventures overseas. And the first things they did was go

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Speaker 1: to the Spice Islands and carry out a brutal genocide

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Speaker 1: in order to gain a monopoly on nutmeg. That was

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Speaker 1: the first thing capitalism. Okay, I feel like you're being

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Speaker 1: unfair to the East India Company. Okay, this was the

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Speaker 1: Dutch East India Company. Yeah, I mean they were fine.

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Speaker 1: It was a non part of absolutely. And hey, capitalism

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Speaker 1: is not unique. Every system human beings have developed on

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Speaker 1: a large scale is a river of blood, like they

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Speaker 1: all are. You know, that's just the way. That's just

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Speaker 1: the way people be. Uh. But if you if you

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Speaker 1: tell the story of capitalism accurately, which is that it's

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Speaker 1: you know, another chapter in the history of human beings

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Speaker 1: finding ways to be shitty to each other in large groups. Um,

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Speaker 1: that's not something people like to hear. Right, you're not

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Speaker 1: gonna get You're not gonna get a whole bunch of people,

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Speaker 1: rah rah rah over capitalism. If you're just talking about

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Speaker 1: how they murdered several ethnic groups for nutmeg, I'm not

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Speaker 1: going to get a lot of raw ra from the

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Speaker 1: people who have a lot of capital. Yeah, yeah, exactly.

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Speaker 1: And those people like to find better stories to explain

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Speaker 1: what capitalism is, um and to get people to identify

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Speaker 1: it enough that they'll threaten a race war. Uh if

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Speaker 1: you you try to amend the system at all, which

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Speaker 1: is why groups like the Acting Institute, a right wing

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Speaker 1: Christian think tank, right stuff like this. And I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: quote from an article titled how Christianity Created Capitalism. The

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Speaker 1: people of the High Middle Ages were a dog with

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Speaker 1: wonder at great mechanical clocks, new forms of gears for

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Speaker 1: windmills and water mills, improvements in wagons and carts, shoulder

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Speaker 1: harnesses for beasts of burden, the ocean going ship rudder,

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Speaker 1: eyeglasses and magnifying glasses. Iron smelting and iron work, stone cutting,

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Speaker 1: and new architectural principles. So many new types of machines

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Speaker 1: were invented and put to use by th hundred. The

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Speaker 1: historian John Gimpel wrote a book in nineteen seventy six

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Speaker 1: called the Industrial Revolution of the Middle Ages. Without the

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Speaker 1: growth of capitalism, however, such technical discoveries would have been

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Speaker 1: idle novelties. They would seldom have been put in the

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Speaker 1: hands of ordinary human beings through swift and easy exchange.

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Speaker 1: They would not have been studied and rapidly copied and

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Speaker 1: improved by eager competitors. All this was made possible by

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Speaker 1: freedom for enterprise, markets and competition, and that, in turn

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Speaker 1: was provided by the Catholic Church. Okay, I'm gonna throw

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Speaker 1: this out there. I'm gonna throw this out there. It's

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Speaker 1: a little late to respond. No, I think it's about

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Speaker 1: time somebody has got to refute this. Okay. I think

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Speaker 1: kind of the underlying words that he was saying was slaves.

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Speaker 1: Nothing would have been made without slaves, you know, like, yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: and it's it's just it's so comprehensively silly because it's like, well,

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Speaker 1: but during the Middle Ages, a huge amount of the

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Speaker 1: most significant technological development and philosophical development and like mathematical

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Speaker 1: developments were being made by the different caliphates that were

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Speaker 1: in charge of the Muslim world. Um, which we're not

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Speaker 1: living under a capitalist system. They were under the Catholic Church. Yes, yes,

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Speaker 1: famously the Addison Caliphate, big fans of the pope Um.

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Speaker 1: I mean, yeah, it's it's it's it's a pretty ludicrous

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Speaker 1: way to look at at at to argue that, like, um,

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Speaker 1: it's a pretty ludicrous description of history, I think, And

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Speaker 1: we could dunk on this article all day, but it's

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Speaker 1: the reality of the situation is just the Christianity did

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Speaker 1: not create capitalism. But there is a story which we're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about today of how capitalism hijacked Christianity, and

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Speaker 1: the specific capitalists who masterminded this ship have names and

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Speaker 1: like sent letters to each other, and we have those letters.

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Speaker 1: A bunch of people have written about this. So now

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Speaker 1: it's it's time for a fun story, guys, um hooray.

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Speaker 1: Our tale starts in the decades before the Great Depression,

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Speaker 1: when the massive trusts and fortunes accumulated by robber barons

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Speaker 1: of the Gilded Age clashed increasingly with organized labor. Right,

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Speaker 1: you start to get the eighteen eighties eighteen nineties workers

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Speaker 1: being like, well, what if what if we all formed

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Speaker 1: together into a large organization and tried to compete with

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Speaker 1: the people telling us that our children should mind coal

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Speaker 1: until they die. Hey, hey, fellas, you want to stop

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Speaker 1: getting murdered and worked to death? Yeah? All right? Do

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Speaker 1: we do? We feel like there's an alternative to getting

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Speaker 1: machined gunned by our boss when we ask for a race.

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Speaker 1: And then they got machine gunned by their bass and

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Speaker 1: then they absolutely did and occasionally the US government. Um,

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Speaker 1: So this this clash is happening. And while it's you know,

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Speaker 1: part of why all of these clashes are happening is that,

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Speaker 1: like the late eighteen hundreds are just the recession after recession,

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Speaker 1: these like economic collapses, um, brought on by the fact

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Speaker 1: that you know, you know why they're brought on. We've

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Speaker 1: all lived through a bunch of economic collaxes now, yeah equivalent, Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean, like it was bitcoin. We've been on bitcoin

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Speaker 1: for a while. Yeah. So the left is like swelling

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Speaker 1: in this period into the early nineteen hundreds because of

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Speaker 1: all of these economic collapses, which, as economic collapse does

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Speaker 1: tend to make tends to make people go like, well,

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Speaker 1: maybe capitalism is not so great, you know, maybe maybe

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Speaker 1: the system could be changed somewhat. Um. A lot of

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Speaker 1: those rabble rousers in the in this period, these like

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Speaker 1: labor leaders, a lot of them were not just Christian,

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Speaker 1: but Christian members of the clergy. Uh. And these folks

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Speaker 1: saw the socialist ends they were fighting for is not

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Speaker 1: just in line with but but demanded by their faith.

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Speaker 1: This was an era in which one in every twenty

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Speaker 1: six workers in the United States could expect to be

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Speaker 1: maimed on the job. Like that is the early nineteen hundreds,

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Speaker 1: one out of every twenty six workers is going to

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Speaker 1: be serious Lee and jer killed on the job. And

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Speaker 1: everybody in Amazon is like, holy shit, one, what a

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Speaker 1: glorious area? Are you kidding? Yeah? This is such a

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Speaker 1: glass half empty? Yeah yeah, yes. Ministers like George D.

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Speaker 1: Herron were outraged by the reduction of sacred human life

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Speaker 1: to an economic unit, and they actually saw what capitalists

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Speaker 1: were doing in this period as like offensive to their

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Speaker 1: religion the day yeah. Um. He wrote in eighteen nineties

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Speaker 1: sermon called the Message of Jesus Two Men of Wealth,

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Speaker 1: in which he compared the struggle between labor and capital

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Speaker 1: to the story of Cain and Abel. Heron argued that

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Speaker 1: Kine's choice to murder his brother was quote the first bald,

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Speaker 1: brutal assertion of self interest as the law of human life,

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Speaker 1: an assertion always potential with murder. So he was like, literally,

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Speaker 1: the owners of capital are the descendants of Caine. Like

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Speaker 1: that is a right, right, all right? Although then in

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Speaker 1: that form Christianity did create capitalism. Yeah, right, I mean

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Speaker 1: there's an argument if that's what he's gonna argue. I mean,

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Speaker 1: but you're taking it out of Jdayism's blocked in right,

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Speaker 1: Kine enables they got more claim to that. But then,

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Speaker 1: of course we get to a really uncomfortable conversation when

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Speaker 1: we start saying that I'm a small minded fellow who

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Speaker 1: didn't read the tour close enough, and that's on me

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Speaker 1: the Abrahamic religions. I guess you can say that the

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Speaker 1: devil created capitalism um by convincing Kine to murder his brother.

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Speaker 1: That's the argument Heron's kind of making here. Yeah, he

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Speaker 1: quote the trial in progress and he's talking about like

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Speaker 1: the trial of the labor movement is Christ versus Kane,

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Speaker 1: the decision to which the times are hastening us is

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Speaker 1: shall Christ reign in our American civilization? Like shall Christ

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Speaker 1: or Caine rain in our American civilization? Sorry? Um, so

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Speaker 1: that that's how Heron frames it. Is like the struggle

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Speaker 1: between labor and capital is the same as the biblical

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Speaker 1: struggle between like Cain and Abel and are we going

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Speaker 1: to let the murder us? And unfortunately the answer was yeah,

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Speaker 1: all right. The first thing that's unfamiliar to me about

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Speaker 1: this guy it seems as though he has read the Bible,

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Speaker 1: which does seem like he might have read the Bible.

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Speaker 1: That's that's an issue for me. I don't think Christianity

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Speaker 1: is allowed to do that, as to see the Middle

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Speaker 1: Ages minister who read the Bible? Now, that doesn't seem right.

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Speaker 1: So Heron stumped for Eugene V. Debs, the hero of

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Speaker 1: our episode on the Pullman Strike, when he ran for

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Speaker 1: president heading the Socialist Party of America. And I want

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Speaker 1: to quote now from a write up on this in

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Speaker 1: the website Sojourners. He was not the only minister to

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Speaker 1: become a socialist either. One his story and estimated that

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Speaker 1: between five and of all mainline Protestant clergy were Socialist

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Speaker 1: Party members or voted for the party. In the first

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Speaker 1: three decades of the twentieth century, Congregationalist minister Franklin Monroe

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Speaker 1: Sprague wrote Socialism from Genesis to Revelation. In EIGHTEWO John Spargo,

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Speaker 1: Methodist minister became a socialist educator. Norman Thomas, a Presbyterian minister,

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Speaker 1: ran for President of the United States as a socialist

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Speaker 1: candidate from nine to ninety eight. Charles Vale Universalist minister,

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Speaker 1: was an important socialist writer. African Americans, both outside and

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Speaker 1: inside of the Socialist Party, also demanded fairer economic systems

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Speaker 1: that affected other facets of life, pushing white Christians and

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Speaker 1: socialists too towards quote a new abolitionism. So there's some

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Speaker 1: cool stuff happening in Christian thought in the first thirty

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Speaker 1: years of the twentieth century. Um, that doesn't is it?

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Speaker 1: For them? Yeah, I'm really I'm really proud of them.

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Speaker 1: They had a good stretch. They did have a good stretched.

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Speaker 1: This is the story that all got sucked up horribly.

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Speaker 1: But is that the prevailing attitude of it's it's not.

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Speaker 1: That is a really good question. It is not as

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Speaker 1: they said. This is somewhere between five and of ministers

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Speaker 1: in this period are members of the Socialist Party. Um.

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Speaker 1: Could it could well, it could be something like that. Um.

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Speaker 1: But there's also this like you have to assume if

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Speaker 1: you know fifteen or twenty of them are members, you've

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Speaker 1: got another probably twenty or who or at least sympathetic,

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Speaker 1: but like not quite as far left. Um. I think

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Speaker 1: mainstream Christianity, because of how popular the labor movement is,

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Speaker 1: is probably broadly sympathetic to a lot of these aims,

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Speaker 1: if not as radical as the guys we just cited. Um,

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Speaker 1: it is certainly not uh pro capitalist, and it is

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Speaker 1: not seen by the capitalists as being pro capitalists. UM.

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Speaker 1: So Christian socialists often you know, combined the Gospel of

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Speaker 1: Jesus and what they had read in Marks. The interpretation

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Speaker 1: that these guys had was that Jesus was a radical

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Speaker 1: who opposed capitalism. Um. Less common was the idea that

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Speaker 1: socialism could be a foundation for a universal humanistic religion.

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Speaker 1: But there were some guys um who said that who

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Speaker 1: were like who kind of went from being Christian minister

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Speaker 1: to being like, well, now I'm more of like just

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Speaker 1: a socialist minister, and I feel like my Christianity is

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Speaker 1: wrapped up in that. But this is like socialism is

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Speaker 1: the religion should be the religion of mankind. You get

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Speaker 1: that on, Like that's the fringe. Yeah, like legislating from

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Speaker 1: the pulpit, I'll tell you that right now. That's that's

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Speaker 1: not what I'm in for here. So it sounds like

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Speaker 1: exactly what alex is terrified. Yeah, the nightmare of nightmares.

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Speaker 1: And a lot of the capitalists in this period are

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Speaker 1: fucking terrified of this because it's spreading really widely. Um,

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Speaker 1: the cause of Christian socialists got a big shot in

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Speaker 1: the arm in August of nineteen twenty nine when the

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Speaker 1: global economy collapsed in the Roaring twenties yielded to the

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Speaker 1: Great Depression. Franklin Delano Roosevelt was elected in nineteen thirty

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Speaker 1: two on the promise of providing Americans with a new Deal.

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Speaker 1: This involved a bunch of banking reforms, a raftive new

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Speaker 1: social programs, and jobs program a whole bunch of stuff. Now,

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Speaker 1: actual socialists like Nicole Ashoff, who wrote The New Profits

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Speaker 1: of Capital, saw the New Deal, or see the New

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Speaker 1: Deal as it was essentially a way for capitalists who

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Speaker 1: were more reasonable and less monstrous than some of the

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Speaker 1: other capitalists to keep the system limping along. Without a

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Speaker 1: socialist revolution. The Elizabeth Warren plan. Yeah, socialists saw the

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Speaker 1: New Deal is like, well, this is like a shameless

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Speaker 1: compromise to keep capitalism going, and it's it's actually not

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Speaker 1: a good thing. Um. And then FDR was a little

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Speaker 1: bit like, hey, you know, they could buy a lot

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Speaker 1: of people to murder all of us, So maybe let's

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Speaker 1: just chill out this one. I'm not going to take

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Speaker 1: a stance on this, but I can't even walk many,

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Speaker 1: I can't run away. I'm not gonna run away. Um, yeah,

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Speaker 1: I do wanna. I'm not gonna necessarily endorse that. Like,

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Speaker 1: you know, we should never have done the New Deal.

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Speaker 1: We should have just like let the revolution come, because

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Speaker 1: I don't know that that would have worked out. But

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Speaker 1: that is an argument of people will make um and

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Speaker 1: Nicole Ashoff writes in her book quote Capital's ability to

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Speaker 1: periodically present a new set of legitimating principles that facilitate

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Speaker 1: the willing participation of society accounts for its remarkable longevity

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Speaker 1: despite periodic bouts of deep crisis, for allowing Max Webber,

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Speaker 1: one of the foremost social thinkers of the twentieth century,

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Speaker 1: uh this belief system is called this belief system which

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Speaker 1: justifies and legitimates capitalism and the primacy of profitmaking is

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Speaker 1: the spirit of capitalism. Um. So that's like this the

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Speaker 1: term that these some of these thinkers use the spirit

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Speaker 1: of capitalism for the ways in which our justifications for

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Speaker 1: it change over time. And the argument here is that

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Speaker 1: kind of f DR was putting a new set of

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Speaker 1: principles to legitimate capitalism. So capitalism is legitimate because we

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Speaker 1: also have the social safety net and we'll take care

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Speaker 1: of people, and it's not this solar system that we

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Speaker 1: had in the decades prior. We've changed it and so

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Speaker 1: it can keep going right. And the fact that capitalism

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Speaker 1: is the syncretic um is seen by critics of capitalism

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Speaker 1: is part of why it's so hard to fucking kill.

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Speaker 1: It's like i'll change, yeah, it'll yeah, take me back,

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Speaker 1: take me. That is what actual socialists are saying at

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Speaker 1: the time. But that's not what capitalists see. So like

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Speaker 1: the the capitalists who are opposed to FDR see him

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Speaker 1: as the literal embodiment of Linen coming to burn their

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Speaker 1: mansions and molest their expensive pets, right like that. They

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Speaker 1: don't they don't see this as like, oh, he's keeping

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Speaker 1: the system that makes us all rich alive. They see

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Speaker 1: this as he's coming to tear it all down. People

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Speaker 1: are dying in the streets as much. Actually, I brought

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Speaker 1: a letter from this time period because I wanted to

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Speaker 1: join in. Uh and this was written by a millionaire

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Speaker 1: at I think it was. It just went oh yeah, sorry, oh,

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Speaker 1: you gotta stop this. Yeah that was the last Yeah

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Speaker 1: that that that is an adequate summary of what these

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Speaker 1: people are saying at the time. And a number of

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Speaker 1: these dudes, titans of industry, guys who owned companies like

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Speaker 1: General Motors UM form an organization called the National Association

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Speaker 1: of Manufacturers in eight. Yeah, you know that, you know,

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Speaker 1: Nam the can the candyman. He shared He shared it.

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Speaker 1: He shared it. Welch, one of the founders of the

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Speaker 1: John Birch Society. Yeah. Now, the the n a M

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Speaker 1: had been right in the thick of those Gilded Age

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Speaker 1: recessions we talked about early, Like that's why this comes

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Speaker 1: out in eight there's all these collapses and the left

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Speaker 1: is rising. You know, you have these these huge armed

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Speaker 1: strikes and like militant workers organizing and these people are like,

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Speaker 1: well if they're if they're organizing with guns to stop

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Speaker 1: people from bringing scabs and couldn't they organized with guns

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Speaker 1: to take our our stuff? You know? You know that

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Speaker 1: is that is one of the things about the organized left,

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Speaker 1: so somewhat is like that, that obsession with policing each other,

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Speaker 1: of being like, no, this is how we protest. We

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Speaker 1: only do it this way. And then if you go

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Speaker 1: back in history and it's like they broke windows and

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Speaker 1: threw grenades into places, they lit everything on five, there

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Speaker 1: was not a lot of discussion about like, well, now

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Speaker 1: you're making it violent. There was this discussion of like

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Speaker 1: build the best grenades to throw at our boxes, the

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Speaker 1: nitpicking arguments about how many males should go through the back. Yeah, yeah,

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Speaker 1: it was. It was a different time. And so these

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Speaker 1: these these businessmen get very scared of this different time

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Speaker 1: and they create the n a M. As a way

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Speaker 1: to kind of like organize um and develop a strategy

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Speaker 1: to protect themselves. Um. So, you know, Roosevelt comes to power,

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Speaker 1: and initially they're kind of they have a bunch of

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Speaker 1: different things that they're that they're scared about. They're also

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Speaker 1: really worried about like domestic industry getting flooded by foreign

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Speaker 1: imports and stuff. But when Roosevelt comes to power and

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Speaker 1: they actually see this big socialist legislation get past UM,

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Speaker 1: they start flipping out and thinking like, uh, you know. Also,

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Speaker 1: the thing that's happening this period is the U s

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Speaker 1: s R has just formed, So they're they're both seeing, Okay,

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Speaker 1: we had these armed workers in the streets. They're getting

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Speaker 1: more organized, they're in the halls of power in Washington,

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Speaker 1: and they're gonna make They're gonna do what the USSR did,

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Speaker 1: and soon we'll all be you know, executed, and our

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Speaker 1: stuff will be taken from us UM. So in a

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Speaker 1: M pivots to opposing the New Deal. UM. Their primary

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Speaker 1: contention was that FDR sought to provide people with a

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Speaker 1: sense of security and a safety net, and this was

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Speaker 1: a bad idea. This is literally what they're writing at

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Speaker 1: the time. Giving people a safety that is a bad

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Speaker 1: idea because if people aren't scared of dying in the street,

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Speaker 1: they won't work as hard and the free market system

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Speaker 1: will fail. I mean, this is absolutely true. I've seen

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Speaker 1: a lot of trapeze acts and they work harder when

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Speaker 1: there is not a net. Yeah, a lot of lazy

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Speaker 1: trapeze artists. Walmart will have fewer employees. If no one

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Speaker 1: is going to starve to death if they don't work there,

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Speaker 1: you might not be able to run Walmart the current

400
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Speaker 1: way that it's run. People don't dance quite as fast

401
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Speaker 1: as they do when you're shooting at their feet. Okay,

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Speaker 1: here's my plan. All right, we give everybody a social

403
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Speaker 1: safety net, but you have to go through a gauntlet

404
00:22:49,600 --> 00:22:55,359
Speaker 1: of like spiked things that are moving and like spinning totally.

405
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Speaker 1: You have to climb the aggro crack. That's the way

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Speaker 1: to get to work every day. I I actually think

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00:23:00,960 --> 00:23:03,400
Speaker 1: that would be dope. What if what if the build

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Speaker 1: back better plant We're like, I'm gonna say a trillion

409
00:23:06,640 --> 00:23:10,080
Speaker 1: dollars for more aggro cracks. What if it was just

410
00:23:10,320 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: a better salary for mica O Malley. It goes to

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Speaker 1: Mico Malley. Something that's got to go to mo Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I'm sorry, I'm sorry. That's that's what's going to split

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Speaker 1: the left, Dan is how much money goes to mor Malley.

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Speaker 1: It's going to end like fucking U of Madrid in

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Speaker 1: nineteen thirty eight, people shooting each other in the street,

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Speaker 1: banners with mos face shin guns. Insistance on paying mow

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Speaker 1: equally it's woke is M run amuck? God fantastic. You

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Speaker 1: know what else's woke is M run Amuck? Dan and

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Speaker 1: Jordan's what's up the products and services that support this podcast?

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Speaker 1: Oh unless it's the Washington in State Highway Patrol. M h. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: they advertising, they do, they do from time to time.

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Speaker 1: Jesus Christ, you're doing ads for cops. I know we're

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Speaker 1: we're not doing them. They just come on the fucking feed.

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Speaker 1: We're we're working on it. But we did an episode

425
00:24:18,119 --> 00:24:21,360
Speaker 1: on the Washington State Highway Patrol recently, which they advertised

426
00:24:21,400 --> 00:24:24,400
Speaker 1: on It was like what happened with Bloomberg? That's that's

427
00:24:24,480 --> 00:24:27,240
Speaker 1: meta as hell. I don't think I mean, they're wasting

428
00:24:27,320 --> 00:24:29,120
Speaker 1: their money. I don't think anyone who listens to any

429
00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:31,080
Speaker 1: of these shows is going to become a Washington State

430
00:24:31,160 --> 00:24:35,040
Speaker 1: Highway Patrol officer. Probably not. Probably. It's like it's like

431
00:24:35,160 --> 00:24:39,399
Speaker 1: kelsee like Epoch Times ads on left wing videos I

432
00:24:39,440 --> 00:24:42,680
Speaker 1: see on on YouTube. It's very weird. Yeah, it's it's

433
00:24:42,840 --> 00:24:50,399
Speaker 1: it's funny. Um, but you know, here's fucking Probably I

434
00:24:50,520 --> 00:24:59,000
Speaker 1: do that because Sophie has to believe it. Ah, we're back.

435
00:24:59,240 --> 00:25:01,800
Speaker 1: Did you guys know that Blue Apron is the only

436
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:05,399
Speaker 1: food box company that runs an island off the coast

437
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:09,359
Speaker 1: of Indonesia where you can hunt children for sport. Did

438
00:25:09,440 --> 00:25:11,800
Speaker 1: they buy Little St. James? They did, They did, They

439
00:25:11,880 --> 00:25:14,000
Speaker 1: bought Little St. James. But they haven't said. They haven't

440
00:25:14,000 --> 00:25:15,960
Speaker 1: got that one going yet. That's down in the Bahamas.

441
00:25:16,400 --> 00:25:18,960
Speaker 1: The only the only person I want to hunt is

442
00:25:19,080 --> 00:25:22,479
Speaker 1: John Leguizamoh. And that's because The Pest was my favorite

443
00:25:22,520 --> 00:25:24,719
Speaker 1: movie in the nineties. So that's just how it's got

444
00:25:24,800 --> 00:25:27,360
Speaker 1: to go for me. I mean, I don't think any

445
00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,600
Speaker 1: court would convict you. But that's a separate discussion. So

446
00:25:31,160 --> 00:25:37,280
Speaker 1: we're we're talking, we're talking, uh this period where you've

447
00:25:37,359 --> 00:25:39,920
Speaker 1: got you know, the n A M who is terrified

448
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:43,000
Speaker 1: that who starts advancing the idea that if you build

449
00:25:43,040 --> 00:25:46,160
Speaker 1: a safety net, the free market system will collapse because

450
00:25:46,200 --> 00:25:48,720
Speaker 1: people won't be scared enough of dying in the street,

451
00:25:48,880 --> 00:25:50,800
Speaker 1: Which is an argument you here today. I actually just

452
00:25:50,960 --> 00:25:55,000
Speaker 1: this week, Representative John Rose, Republican from Tennessee, use this

453
00:25:55,160 --> 00:25:57,800
Speaker 1: argument to explain why healthcare was not a right, why

454
00:25:57,880 --> 00:26:00,880
Speaker 1: we shouldn't have universal healthcare. Uh quote, if you really

455
00:26:00,960 --> 00:26:02,840
Speaker 1: want to be free, it can't be a right. We

456
00:26:02,920 --> 00:26:04,800
Speaker 1: have to have an incentive for people to struggle to

457
00:26:04,840 --> 00:26:08,120
Speaker 1: support themselves, like this is this is when that lion

458
00:26:08,280 --> 00:26:11,520
Speaker 1: is invented. Right. That was not always a justification that,

459
00:26:11,720 --> 00:26:14,120
Speaker 1: like if we try to do a safety net, people

460
00:26:14,200 --> 00:26:18,119
Speaker 1: won't work hard. Um that that's in They're coming up

461
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:20,080
Speaker 1: with this stuff in this period. You know, it's the

462
00:26:20,600 --> 00:26:23,040
Speaker 1: it's cool, it's it's a great scam. It is a

463
00:26:23,240 --> 00:26:26,000
Speaker 1: really great scam to just look people dead in the

464
00:26:26,119 --> 00:26:29,240
Speaker 1: eye and say live or die, buddy, you should go

465
00:26:29,280 --> 00:26:33,840
Speaker 1: to work today. Yeah, starving, then this whole system falls apart.

466
00:26:34,280 --> 00:26:37,000
Speaker 1: It's a little insulting to in terms of like saying

467
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:39,440
Speaker 1: that people who do things don't have any reason to

468
00:26:39,520 --> 00:26:42,960
Speaker 1: do it other than like pure survival. Yeah, I think

469
00:26:43,000 --> 00:26:45,320
Speaker 1: a lot of jobs people would do it if if

470
00:26:45,400 --> 00:26:48,040
Speaker 1: money didn't exist in the same form. I think most

471
00:26:48,119 --> 00:26:50,560
Speaker 1: of the people who were doctors would be doctors if

472
00:26:50,800 --> 00:26:53,320
Speaker 1: you know, we lived under a different system. I think

473
00:26:53,560 --> 00:26:55,840
Speaker 1: all of the people who are artists would still be artists,

474
00:26:55,840 --> 00:26:58,840
Speaker 1: except for maybe Pitbull. I mean, I had to cut

475
00:26:59,000 --> 00:27:01,440
Speaker 1: Dan's Achilles towns to make sure that he stayed here,

476
00:27:01,480 --> 00:27:04,320
Speaker 1: but other twill I'm always in this chair exactly. Yes,

477
00:27:05,160 --> 00:27:07,639
Speaker 1: just basically what you have to do with chickens to

478
00:27:07,720 --> 00:27:09,760
Speaker 1: keep them in the room and keep them laying those

479
00:27:09,800 --> 00:27:16,760
Speaker 1: eggs with Dan's wings. He doesn't right start another podcast.

480
00:27:17,760 --> 00:27:22,800
Speaker 1: Can't have me going to Austin again. The thing too,

481
00:27:22,880 --> 00:27:24,800
Speaker 1: that it seems weird like this seems to imply that

482
00:27:25,240 --> 00:27:28,440
Speaker 1: the people in the National Association of Manufacturers are only

483
00:27:28,520 --> 00:27:32,280
Speaker 1: doing that too. They wouldn't be doing this stuff if

484
00:27:32,320 --> 00:27:34,920
Speaker 1: they didn't fear for their lives. No, I mean, you

485
00:27:35,000 --> 00:27:36,880
Speaker 1: are you are right that that is kind of they're

486
00:27:36,920 --> 00:27:39,440
Speaker 1: projecting a bit that like, yeah, literally, everything you do

487
00:27:39,640 --> 00:27:42,760
Speaker 1: is because you're afraid of winding up like the people

488
00:27:42,920 --> 00:27:47,800
Speaker 1: you are fighting to keep struggling. Um So, the resistance

489
00:27:47,840 --> 00:27:50,399
Speaker 1: of these manufacturers to the rising tide of socialism was

490
00:27:50,440 --> 00:27:53,159
Speaker 1: it first disorganized and somewhat incoherent, you know, Like I

491
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,000
Speaker 1: said this, the argument line they advanced is still around today.

492
00:27:56,320 --> 00:27:58,720
Speaker 1: But that's not something that you're going to immediately get

493
00:27:58,720 --> 00:28:00,359
Speaker 1: a lot of people on board with and order for

494
00:28:00,440 --> 00:28:03,920
Speaker 1: that idea to become universal on the right, Um, you

495
00:28:04,080 --> 00:28:08,000
Speaker 1: have to lay some groundwork. Um. So they decided to

496
00:28:08,080 --> 00:28:10,040
Speaker 1: do that in a couple of different ways. They're trying

497
00:28:10,280 --> 00:28:12,480
Speaker 1: sort of a shotgun approach. They have like a propaganda

498
00:28:12,520 --> 00:28:16,360
Speaker 1: campaign dedicated to fighting anti business sentiment. But people don't

499
00:28:16,400 --> 00:28:19,840
Speaker 1: like big businesses ever, really, like even even today people

500
00:28:19,880 --> 00:28:22,480
Speaker 1: on the right, nobody likes big corporations. So that's not

501
00:28:22,880 --> 00:28:25,920
Speaker 1: an easy thing to do. They do the most important

502
00:28:25,960 --> 00:28:29,000
Speaker 1: thing to do on the right is demonized giant corporations

503
00:28:29,040 --> 00:28:31,119
Speaker 1: while at the same time being like, but you need

504
00:28:31,240 --> 00:28:33,080
Speaker 1: to make sure they have all of your money. Yeah,

505
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:35,840
Speaker 1: I mean like make sure of that. Yeah. And and

506
00:28:35,960 --> 00:28:39,040
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of why like they that that doesn't

507
00:28:39,080 --> 00:28:42,040
Speaker 1: prove to be a very productive line for them either. Um.

508
00:28:42,200 --> 00:28:43,920
Speaker 1: When when they first get their real idea of like

509
00:28:44,040 --> 00:28:46,400
Speaker 1: what's actually going to work to advance these ideas in

510
00:28:46,440 --> 00:28:49,200
Speaker 1: American society is when the Red Scare hits in the

511
00:28:49,280 --> 00:28:53,880
Speaker 1: late nineteen thirties, UM and Texas Democratic Congressman Martin D's

512
00:28:53,920 --> 00:28:56,920
Speaker 1: founds the House Committee on Un American Activities. Um, the

513
00:28:57,000 --> 00:28:59,560
Speaker 1: media starts going nuts with like there's you know, Red's

514
00:28:59,600 --> 00:29:01,240
Speaker 1: coming here trying to do what USS are in the

515
00:29:01,320 --> 00:29:05,719
Speaker 1: United States, all these dangerous anarchists and communists and whatnot. Um,

516
00:29:05,800 --> 00:29:08,840
Speaker 1: they do in Vain, Iraq, And that these these business

517
00:29:09,400 --> 00:29:11,640
Speaker 1: businessmen realized that like, well, no, the thing to do.

518
00:29:11,760 --> 00:29:14,880
Speaker 1: It's not to fight anti business sentiment. Um that's not

519
00:29:14,960 --> 00:29:16,680
Speaker 1: going to be productive, and it's not going to be

520
00:29:16,760 --> 00:29:19,080
Speaker 1: to tell people they need to struggle. It's it's you

521
00:29:19,200 --> 00:29:22,080
Speaker 1: have to cloak this and fighting communism because people are

522
00:29:22,160 --> 00:29:24,120
Speaker 1: scared of what they're hearing in the U. S. S R.

523
00:29:24,160 --> 00:29:25,800
Speaker 1: And that's gonna work a hell of a lot better

524
00:29:25,880 --> 00:29:29,880
Speaker 1: than anything else. Um So. D S publishes a book

525
00:29:29,880 --> 00:29:32,240
Speaker 1: in nineteen forty called The Trojan Horse, in which he

526
00:29:32,320 --> 00:29:36,000
Speaker 1: claims communism is a religion that has replaced religious faith

527
00:29:36,080 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: with materialism. DS warns that communists were waging a psychological

528
00:29:40,320 --> 00:29:42,920
Speaker 1: invasion to conquer the American way of life, and some

529
00:29:43,040 --> 00:29:44,920
Speaker 1: of the brighter guys that the n A M see

530
00:29:45,000 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: this and as the opportunity that it is. D's isn't

531
00:29:48,440 --> 00:29:52,040
Speaker 1: saying anything about free enterprise here, but he's tying socialism

532
00:29:52,120 --> 00:29:54,800
Speaker 1: in as opposed to religion, which obviously in the U. S.

533
00:29:54,920 --> 00:29:56,719
Speaker 1: S R. At least it was. You know that they

534
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:58,719
Speaker 1: like they outlaw it. You know, you have a lot

535
00:29:58,760 --> 00:30:02,120
Speaker 1: of there should have been like the far right sending

536
00:30:02,200 --> 00:30:04,960
Speaker 1: up fireworks the moment he put that to paper of

537
00:30:05,120 --> 00:30:07,760
Speaker 1: just like this is the birth of a new girl lah.

538
00:30:07,920 --> 00:30:10,120
Speaker 1: They get out there. It's like the telegram scene at

539
00:30:10,160 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: the Independence Day. They're like, this is how, this is

540
00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:16,800
Speaker 1: how to do it. You know, essentially a compound noun

541
00:30:17,240 --> 00:30:21,880
Speaker 1: at this point, godless communism. And some of these guys

542
00:30:21,920 --> 00:30:24,440
Speaker 1: at the n A M who are not dumb men,

543
00:30:24,920 --> 00:30:27,440
Speaker 1: recognize that what needs to be done. He's got the

544
00:30:27,560 --> 00:30:29,640
Speaker 1: germ of a good idea. But it's not enough to

545
00:30:29,760 --> 00:30:33,000
Speaker 1: just say the Communists are going to replace religion. You

546
00:30:33,120 --> 00:30:36,200
Speaker 1: also have to tie capitalism to religion. You have to

547
00:30:36,320 --> 00:30:41,719
Speaker 1: make Christianity intimately a part of capitalism. And that that's

548
00:30:42,040 --> 00:30:44,840
Speaker 1: how you fucking do this ship right, that's the groundwork

549
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,640
Speaker 1: you need to get people to believe all the ship.

550
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:48,320
Speaker 1: You need them to believe if you want to keep

551
00:30:48,360 --> 00:30:50,440
Speaker 1: all of the money in your hands. You know, if

552
00:30:50,480 --> 00:30:52,840
Speaker 1: you want people to believe something fake, go to the

553
00:30:52,880 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 1: people who already believe fake ship. I I do apologize

554
00:30:59,560 --> 00:31:02,880
Speaker 1: to our our our number one listener, the Pope. Uh

555
00:31:03,960 --> 00:31:09,000
Speaker 1: do not speak for everyone here, um, big big fan

556
00:31:09,640 --> 00:31:12,760
Speaker 1: of the pope. Um not not the new one, the

557
00:31:12,800 --> 00:31:15,600
Speaker 1: one who was a Nazi. Um. I don't like that

558
00:31:15,680 --> 00:31:17,160
Speaker 1: he was a Nazi or that he covered up a

559
00:31:17,200 --> 00:31:19,840
Speaker 1: lot of sexual harassment. But he's actually he's incredible at

560
00:31:19,880 --> 00:31:23,080
Speaker 1: ping pong, and UM, you know, I I appreciate, I

561
00:31:23,160 --> 00:31:28,560
Speaker 1: appreciate that Sophie is just letting this happen. Unbelievable. I

562
00:31:28,680 --> 00:31:31,400
Speaker 1: can't believe that, Sophie. I've just been sitting here. I

563
00:31:31,560 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: I probably would have jumped him, but I was trying

564
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:38,160
Speaker 1: to come up with AD's nuts. Yeah, it's impossible to

565
00:31:38,240 --> 00:31:41,440
Speaker 1: not think about that. Yeah, I was thinking, can you

566
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:49,120
Speaker 1: believe how influential when they come up with this idea

567
00:31:49,240 --> 00:31:51,160
Speaker 1: that like, Okay, we need to we need to tar

568
00:31:51,280 --> 00:31:54,080
Speaker 1: the left as anti religion, um, and we need to

569
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:58,320
Speaker 1: we need to make people associate capitalism and Christianity together.

570
00:31:58,440 --> 00:32:02,320
Speaker 1: When this idea is like born, it's a pretty long

571
00:32:03,360 --> 00:32:06,480
Speaker 1: like it's not an easy thing to do. Right. For

572
00:32:06,600 --> 00:32:09,200
Speaker 1: one thing, FDR is in office and he is famous

573
00:32:09,280 --> 00:32:13,000
Speaker 1: for being the first president to basically give religious sermons

574
00:32:13,120 --> 00:32:16,360
Speaker 1: as speeches. Um. A lot of his speeches he's quoting

575
00:32:16,440 --> 00:32:20,080
Speaker 1: from the Bible constantly. The National Bible Press actually publishes

576
00:32:20,120 --> 00:32:23,200
Speaker 1: a chart where people can like find on a regular

577
00:32:23,240 --> 00:32:26,000
Speaker 1: basis and it'll like give his speeches and it'll list

578
00:32:26,120 --> 00:32:29,120
Speaker 1: the Bible quotes that he's like real paraphrasing or talking

579
00:32:29,160 --> 00:32:32,640
Speaker 1: about or like Scot Card. Yeah, yeah, for because because

580
00:32:32,840 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: he's basically like a preacher, like that's how FDR talks

581
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: to the nation. Um and FDR, FDR is really for

582
00:32:40,920 --> 00:32:43,360
Speaker 1: for all of the you know arguments that are very valid,

583
00:32:43,600 --> 00:32:49,000
Speaker 1: you know about him essentially stopping a socialist revolution by

584
00:32:49,160 --> 00:32:54,600
Speaker 1: introducing reform. He also really ties um Christianity to anti

585
00:32:54,680 --> 00:32:57,840
Speaker 1: capitalism in his speeches, and one FDR states quote, the

586
00:32:57,920 --> 00:33:00,640
Speaker 1: money changers have fled their high seat in the temple

587
00:33:00,720 --> 00:33:03,720
Speaker 1: of our civilization when he's talking about the new deal,

588
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:08,440
Speaker 1: So he's he's in a MS plan to like reverse

589
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: this is there they are they are dealing with, Like,

590
00:33:11,040 --> 00:33:13,560
Speaker 1: this is not an easy thing right today. It's obviously

591
00:33:13,680 --> 00:33:17,480
Speaker 1: the left is godless and the right is Christian and capitalist.

592
00:33:17,880 --> 00:33:20,760
Speaker 1: That is Um. They have a long road to get there.

593
00:33:20,840 --> 00:33:23,600
Speaker 1: At this point. You gotta basically climb the grog. Yeah,

594
00:33:23,600 --> 00:33:26,680
Speaker 1: they gotta climate aggrow crag. That's exactly right. That the metaphor,

595
00:33:27,120 --> 00:33:28,960
Speaker 1: you have to hit each button along the way. You

596
00:33:29,000 --> 00:33:31,760
Speaker 1: have to hit the combined capitalism with Jesus button. You

597
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:35,160
Speaker 1: have to hit that. Yeah a lot, what needs do

598
00:33:35,440 --> 00:33:38,400
Speaker 1: a lot? And they get delayed by a little thing

599
00:33:38,480 --> 00:33:40,120
Speaker 1: you guys might have heard of. You haven't really covered

600
00:33:40,120 --> 00:33:41,280
Speaker 1: it in your show, so I'm not sure if you're

601
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:44,880
Speaker 1: aware of it. Um. World War two, Um, which what? Yeah? Yeah,

602
00:33:44,960 --> 00:33:47,240
Speaker 1: there was a second one. It was not as interesting.

603
00:33:47,520 --> 00:33:51,360
Speaker 1: It was not as I gotta go it was. It

604
00:33:51,480 --> 00:33:55,080
Speaker 1: was less less Aliens and more Temple of Doom, you know.

605
00:33:55,560 --> 00:34:00,160
Speaker 1: Um yeah, unfortunate. You hate to see, you know, a

606
00:34:00,240 --> 00:34:02,240
Speaker 1: sequel that just doesn't live up to the original. But

607
00:34:02,560 --> 00:34:07,680
Speaker 1: sophomore slump. World War three, though, that's gonna be that's

608
00:34:07,680 --> 00:34:11,120
Speaker 1: gonna be our that's gonna be our Alien three, you know, finally,

609
00:34:11,719 --> 00:34:13,960
Speaker 1: finally the good one. You don't you don't like the

610
00:34:14,040 --> 00:34:17,520
Speaker 1: Last Crusade. I like the last Actually, the Last Crusade

611
00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:21,200
Speaker 1: is maybe my favorite of them. Yeah, Sean Connery and

612
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:26,680
Speaker 1: Harrison Ford. What man, Sean Connery and Harrison Ford. Stamp

613
00:34:26,920 --> 00:34:28,880
Speaker 1: He's got the stamp in the library and at the

614
00:34:29,000 --> 00:34:31,280
Speaker 1: same time he gets this and that's just great comedy.

615
00:34:31,480 --> 00:34:33,680
Speaker 1: That's just great comedy, man, it is. It's a good,

616
00:34:33,800 --> 00:34:36,520
Speaker 1: good movie. So let's hope our World War three is

617
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:40,200
Speaker 1: less Alien three and more Indiana Jones and the Last

618
00:34:40,239 --> 00:34:44,840
Speaker 1: Crusade Fingers crossed everybody um our World War three that

619
00:34:44,920 --> 00:34:49,920
Speaker 1: may have started by the time this episode drops. That's

620
00:34:49,960 --> 00:34:52,120
Speaker 1: World War four according to some people, because of the

621
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,640
Speaker 1: Cold Cold War, some of the people who are maybe

622
00:34:54,719 --> 00:34:58,799
Speaker 1: involved in the story you're telling. My argument is, if

623
00:34:58,920 --> 00:35:01,640
Speaker 1: if the Germans don't it started, it's not a world war.

624
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,920
Speaker 1: You know, if it's not from Champagne and France, it's not.

625
00:35:07,040 --> 00:35:13,080
Speaker 1: It's just a sparkling global conflict. I just say, all

626
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:18,959
Speaker 1: of your laughs about the next world war pretty scary. Yeah,

627
00:35:21,760 --> 00:35:28,960
Speaker 1: terrified if you realize we're terrified. It's like World War

628
00:35:29,040 --> 00:35:31,040
Speaker 1: two kicks off. And this is bad for the n

629
00:35:31,120 --> 00:35:33,920
Speaker 1: a M. Both because a lot of the guys involved

630
00:35:33,960 --> 00:35:35,520
Speaker 1: in the n a M were part of the America

631
00:35:35,560 --> 00:35:37,080
Speaker 1: First Movement and did not want to go to war

632
00:35:37,120 --> 00:35:39,279
Speaker 1: because they were big fans of Nazi Germany. But it's

633
00:35:39,280 --> 00:35:41,200
Speaker 1: also I thought it was because they had spent too

634
00:35:41,280 --> 00:35:47,800
Speaker 1: much time in nam bom Na. We got it. We're

635
00:35:47,840 --> 00:35:50,960
Speaker 1: just all right. Everybody's got the same, which is quiet

636
00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,120
Speaker 1: and I want more. I can't help you out when

637
00:35:54,160 --> 00:35:56,320
Speaker 1: you gell boom and then want to high five, I

638
00:35:56,400 --> 00:36:01,160
Speaker 1: just can't help you. So during the war years, in

639
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:04,279
Speaker 1: a M S propaganda, they can't really like execute this

640
00:36:04,400 --> 00:36:07,040
Speaker 1: plan that they've started to cobble together because the US

641
00:36:07,120 --> 00:36:09,279
Speaker 1: is allied with the U S s R. So fearmongering

642
00:36:09,320 --> 00:36:11,640
Speaker 1: against the Reds does not work as well when you

643
00:36:11,719 --> 00:36:14,440
Speaker 1: are shipping them as many tanks as you can possibly

644
00:36:14,560 --> 00:36:17,200
Speaker 1: put together, you know, when you are handing as many

645
00:36:17,320 --> 00:36:19,920
Speaker 1: guns as you have to the Soviets because they're the

646
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:23,040
Speaker 1: only thing standing between the world and a tide of Nazis,

647
00:36:23,520 --> 00:36:29,520
Speaker 1: it's hard to get people scared about the commist you know. Yeah, well, yeah,

648
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:32,680
Speaker 1: so they are. They are kind of planning and thinking

649
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:34,640
Speaker 1: during this period, though, And one of the things that

650
00:36:34,719 --> 00:36:36,520
Speaker 1: some of these people start to realize is that if

651
00:36:36,520 --> 00:36:38,480
Speaker 1: they're really going to push this agenda through, if they're

652
00:36:38,520 --> 00:36:41,839
Speaker 1: going to make Christianity and capitalism be the same thing

653
00:36:41,920 --> 00:36:44,399
Speaker 1: in the minds and millions of Americans, it's not gonna

654
00:36:44,520 --> 00:36:47,359
Speaker 1: a bunch of CEOs aren't going to make that happen.

655
00:36:47,400 --> 00:36:50,719
Speaker 1: They need an inside man. They need a popular, charismatic

656
00:36:50,800 --> 00:36:54,080
Speaker 1: preacher who knows how to talk to other ministers and

657
00:36:54,200 --> 00:36:57,600
Speaker 1: to congregations. They need an active partner who is a

658
00:36:57,680 --> 00:37:01,200
Speaker 1: religious leader. And they find this partner in James W.

659
00:37:01,560 --> 00:37:04,399
Speaker 1: Fifield Jr. Now I want to quote from a write

660
00:37:04,440 --> 00:37:07,160
Speaker 1: up in Politico by Kevin Cruz, who's done a lot

661
00:37:07,239 --> 00:37:10,879
Speaker 1: of writing on this subject. Quote. In December of nineteen forty,

662
00:37:10,960 --> 00:37:13,680
Speaker 1: more than five thousand industrialists from across the nation made

663
00:37:13,719 --> 00:37:16,520
Speaker 1: their yearly pilgrimage to the Waldorf Hisstoria Hotel in New

664
00:37:16,600 --> 00:37:19,240
Speaker 1: York City, convening for the annual meeting of the National

665
00:37:19,280 --> 00:37:22,920
Speaker 1: Association of Manufacturers. The program promised an impressive slate of

666
00:37:22,960 --> 00:37:26,680
Speaker 1: speakers Titans at General Motors, General Electric, Standard, Oil, Mutual

667
00:37:26,760 --> 00:37:30,040
Speaker 1: Life and Sears Roebuck, popular lecturers such as etiquette expert

668
00:37:30,080 --> 00:37:33,920
Speaker 1: Emily Post and renowned philosopher historian Will Durant, even FBI

669
00:37:34,040 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: Director j Edgar Hoover. Tucked Away near the end of

670
00:37:36,600 --> 00:37:40,520
Speaker 1: the program was a name few new initially, Reverend James W.

671
00:37:40,760 --> 00:37:44,160
Speaker 1: Fifield Jr. Handsome, tall, and somewhat gangly, the forty one

672
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,400
Speaker 1: year old Congregationalist minister bore more than a passing resemblance

673
00:37:47,440 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: to Jimmy Stewart. Addressing the crowd of business leaders, Fifield

674
00:37:50,480 --> 00:37:53,160
Speaker 1: delivered a passionate defense of the American system of free

675
00:37:53,280 --> 00:37:56,080
Speaker 1: enterprise and a withering assault on its perceived enemies and

676
00:37:56,160 --> 00:38:00,359
Speaker 1: Franklin D. Roosevelt's administration, decrying the new deals incroach upon

677
00:38:00,440 --> 00:38:03,400
Speaker 1: our American freedoms. The minister listed a litany of sins

678
00:38:03,440 --> 00:38:06,480
Speaker 1: committed by the Democratic government, ranging from its devaluation of

679
00:38:06,560 --> 00:38:09,400
Speaker 1: currency to its disrespect for the Supreme Court, singling out

680
00:38:09,440 --> 00:38:12,840
Speaker 1: the regulatory state for condemnation. He'd announced the multitude of

681
00:38:12,920 --> 00:38:16,280
Speaker 1: federal agencies attached to the executive branch and warned ominously

682
00:38:16,360 --> 00:38:22,000
Speaker 1: of the menace of autocracy approaching through bureaucracy. Yeah. I

683
00:38:22,040 --> 00:38:24,520
Speaker 1: have to assume Emily Post had some notes on the

684
00:38:25,840 --> 00:38:28,040
Speaker 1: I think she was on board. Might not have been

685
00:38:28,120 --> 00:38:30,640
Speaker 1: great etiquette. We might not want to look too much

686
00:38:30,680 --> 00:38:35,120
Speaker 1: into what Emily Post believed. It's wild that you could have,

687
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,200
Speaker 1: like someone who is an etiquette expert whose name is

688
00:38:38,280 --> 00:38:42,320
Speaker 1: still recognizable, you know it is it is going around

689
00:38:42,360 --> 00:38:46,080
Speaker 1: now being an expert. Yeah. Is that what an influencer

690
00:38:46,200 --> 00:38:50,880
Speaker 1: is ultimately? Yeah? No, no, well, okay, Emily Post was

691
00:38:52,760 --> 00:38:55,880
Speaker 1: shot and I missed, and that's fine. That's fine. She

692
00:38:56,040 --> 00:38:57,920
Speaker 1: was an early influencer. I mean she was kind of

693
00:38:57,960 --> 00:39:02,720
Speaker 1: like Marie Condo um of being polite in dinner parties,

694
00:39:03,800 --> 00:39:08,680
Speaker 1: try and not saying go fund yourself. Yeah, So Fifield's

695
00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:11,480
Speaker 1: primary argument to this, this huge room full of the

696
00:39:11,600 --> 00:39:14,040
Speaker 1: richest people in the world, was that capital could only

697
00:39:14,120 --> 00:39:17,560
Speaker 1: save itself from the menaces of unionism and social democracy

698
00:39:17,840 --> 00:39:21,360
Speaker 1: by tying itself in religion in opposition to Soviet socialism,

699
00:39:21,400 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: which was godless. He was adamant that the clergy would

700
00:39:24,280 --> 00:39:27,200
Speaker 1: be big businesses strongest ally in this quest, and his

701
00:39:27,280 --> 00:39:30,920
Speaker 1: speech was met with thunderous applause. So they this guy

702
00:39:31,080 --> 00:39:34,600
Speaker 1: is saying exactly what these dudes have been thinking, um.

703
00:39:34,960 --> 00:39:37,720
Speaker 1: And he's also seems to be proposing a way forward

704
00:39:37,840 --> 00:39:40,879
Speaker 1: in this plan. Fifield had been beating this particular drum

705
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,880
Speaker 1: for a while. He'd gotten his start in Michigan. His

706
00:39:43,960 --> 00:39:46,800
Speaker 1: big brother was a really popular preacher who gained prominence

707
00:39:47,400 --> 00:39:50,000
Speaker 1: in that area for taking over a struggling church and

708
00:39:50,080 --> 00:39:53,080
Speaker 1: turning it profitable. And Fifield did the same thing he himself,

709
00:39:53,200 --> 00:39:54,960
Speaker 1: and it was so successful that he got a gig

710
00:39:55,080 --> 00:39:58,360
Speaker 1: at the first Congregational Church in Los Angeles in nineteen

711
00:39:58,440 --> 00:40:00,440
Speaker 1: thirty five. And I want to quote now from a

712
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,600
Speaker 1: paper by Eckert Toy from the University of Washington on

713
00:40:03,719 --> 00:40:07,520
Speaker 1: five fields background. When Fifield became minister of the church,

714
00:40:07,560 --> 00:40:09,919
Speaker 1: he realized it had incurred a substantial debt of seven

715
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:12,840
Speaker 1: hundred and fifty thousand dollars, which is like thirteen million

716
00:40:12,920 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: dollars today. To address the church's debt, he launched a

717
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 1: campaign to raise the profile of the church both locally

718
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:21,520
Speaker 1: and nationally, and he instituted an adult education series called

719
00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,640
Speaker 1: College of Life, which employed fourteen professors from universities throughout California.

720
00:40:25,880 --> 00:40:29,200
Speaker 1: He began broadcasting five radio programs and initiated a speaker

721
00:40:29,280 --> 00:40:32,200
Speaker 1: series Club. His public relations talent soon paid off, and

722
00:40:32,280 --> 00:40:34,399
Speaker 1: the church was out of debt by nineteen forty two.

723
00:40:34,800 --> 00:40:36,840
Speaker 1: So this is the guy who creates the first megachurch,

724
00:40:37,560 --> 00:40:40,319
Speaker 1: like and he does this in a very interesting way

725
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,640
Speaker 1: because that's his first sermon was called Sinners in the

726
00:40:43,719 --> 00:40:46,920
Speaker 1: Hand of a Wealthy God. That's that basically, Yes, that's

727
00:40:46,960 --> 00:40:50,320
Speaker 1: almost exactly what he does because he's he's in l A.

728
00:40:50,520 --> 00:40:52,479
Speaker 1: This is a church in an affluent part of the city.

729
00:40:52,680 --> 00:40:55,400
Speaker 1: That's like the modern equivalent of thirteen million dollars in

730
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:58,320
Speaker 1: debt um And how were you going to make thirteen

731
00:40:58,400 --> 00:41:05,000
Speaker 1: million dollars heading a church? Become l Ron Hubbard, Yeah, basically,

732
00:41:05,080 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: become an influencer, create a sort of cult but instead

733
00:41:09,040 --> 00:41:11,080
Speaker 1: of you being the cult leader, you create a cult

734
00:41:11,120 --> 00:41:14,120
Speaker 1: where you convince all of these rich people that they

735
00:41:14,160 --> 00:41:18,279
Speaker 1: are godly by virtue of being rich, and then they'll

736
00:41:18,320 --> 00:41:20,640
Speaker 1: give you enough money that you can get your church

737
00:41:20,680 --> 00:41:23,040
Speaker 1: out of debt. Right do you think do you think

738
00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:24,719
Speaker 1: he's the guy? I don't know if you've heard this,

739
00:41:24,880 --> 00:41:29,000
Speaker 1: but for for I, I'm more than passingly familiar with Christianity.

740
00:41:29,320 --> 00:41:32,120
Speaker 1: But when I grew up the explanation of the like,

741
00:41:32,600 --> 00:41:34,640
Speaker 1: you can't get a it's harder for a rich man

742
00:41:34,719 --> 00:41:36,680
Speaker 1: to get into heaven than a camel through than an

743
00:41:36,719 --> 00:41:40,040
Speaker 1: eye of the needle. Somebody had this pitch of like

744
00:41:40,360 --> 00:41:42,719
Speaker 1: the eye of the needle was actually like this really

745
00:41:42,960 --> 00:41:46,800
Speaker 1: narrow that they've now built totally. I actually I just

746
00:41:46,920 --> 00:41:50,799
Speaker 1: looked into this recently and that's nonsense. No, of course

747
00:41:50,880 --> 00:41:53,800
Speaker 1: it's nonsense. But what I'm wondering, if this is the

748
00:41:53,920 --> 00:41:56,840
Speaker 1: dude who fucking pulled that ship off, you know what

749
00:41:56,920 --> 00:41:59,600
Speaker 1: I'm saying? Yeah, I think so. I don't think it

750
00:41:59,640 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: goes by that far. But yeah, that's that exists in

751
00:42:03,800 --> 00:42:07,200
Speaker 1: multiple of the Synoptic Gospels, and the word that's used

752
00:42:07,600 --> 00:42:10,719
Speaker 1: is different, So it wouldn't be like referring to a

753
00:42:10,880 --> 00:42:14,960
Speaker 1: specific gait, it would have to be no concept. It

754
00:42:15,080 --> 00:42:17,279
Speaker 1: was very clear. But I think I think that that

755
00:42:17,400 --> 00:42:20,279
Speaker 1: came about after this period that we're okay that that

756
00:42:20,440 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 1: I think that specifically does. But the general thing of

757
00:42:24,040 --> 00:42:26,840
Speaker 1: figuring out like saying that no, no, no, no, despite

758
00:42:26,880 --> 00:42:30,399
Speaker 1: what everyone says about Jesus, he actually thinks if you're

759
00:42:30,600 --> 00:42:34,680
Speaker 1: a good person, you get rich. What everyone Jesus was

760
00:42:34,840 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: violent once in his life, and it was against bankers. No, no, no.

761
00:42:40,360 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: Every time he said he likes swords, there was that

762
00:42:44,160 --> 00:42:46,359
Speaker 1: sell your stuff and get a sword. If you read

763
00:42:46,400 --> 00:42:49,280
Speaker 1: the Good Gospels. At one point in time, he murders

764
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:53,520
Speaker 1: a kid just for getting in his way. So you're gettingnostic, now,

765
00:42:53,880 --> 00:42:59,000
Speaker 1: that's that's the ship. He killed dragons. Jesus was ultimate superhero,

766
00:42:59,520 --> 00:43:03,759
Speaker 1: just murdering kids left and right. Um, that's the back. Yeah,

767
00:43:05,880 --> 00:43:12,880
Speaker 1: just fucking with that is that is the kind of

768
00:43:12,960 --> 00:43:17,200
Speaker 1: Christianity I could get on board with. Um. So Fifield

769
00:43:17,360 --> 00:43:19,759
Speaker 1: gets his church out of debt by appealing to the

770
00:43:19,920 --> 00:43:23,879
Speaker 1: wealthiest people in Los Angeles, um and and finding ways

771
00:43:23,920 --> 00:43:26,680
Speaker 1: to show them that like Christian doctrine actually says, you

772
00:43:26,719 --> 00:43:29,319
Speaker 1: don't need to give money to the poor, sources will

773
00:43:29,360 --> 00:43:33,080
Speaker 1: often describe him as politically conservative but doctrinally liberal, and

774
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,480
Speaker 1: what that means is that like he was right, he

775
00:43:35,640 --> 00:43:38,480
Speaker 1: was very conservative with his politics, but he was liberal

776
00:43:38,600 --> 00:43:40,799
Speaker 1: in his interpretation of the Bible because it let him

777
00:43:40,840 --> 00:43:47,000
Speaker 1: justify his politics. It was loose. He's a fun guy. Um,

778
00:43:47,480 --> 00:43:50,040
Speaker 1: so he tweaked the Bible a lot. Cruise notes that

779
00:43:50,120 --> 00:43:52,640
Speaker 1: he quote dismissed the many passages in the New Testament

780
00:43:52,680 --> 00:43:54,800
Speaker 1: about wealth and poverty and instead of shared the elite

781
00:43:54,840 --> 00:43:57,440
Speaker 1: that their worldly success was a sign of God's blessings.

782
00:43:58,239 --> 00:44:00,759
Speaker 1: This is a huge hit he I mean again, he

783
00:44:00,880 --> 00:44:03,759
Speaker 1: makes thirteen million dollars in the space of a few years,

784
00:44:03,800 --> 00:44:05,799
Speaker 1: like four years, to get his church out of debt.

785
00:44:06,040 --> 00:44:08,480
Speaker 1: He is very good at this. If you've if you've

786
00:44:08,520 --> 00:44:11,680
Speaker 1: ever read Douglas Adams is UH. I think the fifth

787
00:44:11,800 --> 00:44:16,560
Speaker 1: book in the UH there was there's a character where

788
00:44:16,920 --> 00:44:19,279
Speaker 1: Ford Prefect goes to this planet and there is a

789
00:44:19,440 --> 00:44:22,960
Speaker 1: sex worker who explains that her job is telling rich

790
00:44:23,040 --> 00:44:25,759
Speaker 1: people that it's okay to be rich. And that is

791
00:44:25,880 --> 00:44:29,080
Speaker 1: exactly what that guy's job is. That that is literally

792
00:44:29,160 --> 00:44:31,239
Speaker 1: the whole thing he's doing, the whole thing. It's just

793
00:44:31,560 --> 00:44:35,359
Speaker 1: it's okay for you to be rich and funk with everybody. Yeah. Good, Yeah,

794
00:44:35,600 --> 00:44:39,440
Speaker 1: you need to give your money up in taxes and

795
00:44:39,840 --> 00:44:42,880
Speaker 1: keep telling you I'll find I'll cut the Bible apart

796
00:44:43,000 --> 00:44:46,120
Speaker 1: to make you feel like a decent person. It's actually

797
00:44:46,239 --> 00:44:50,279
Speaker 1: charity to get me out of this debt. Yeah, it's

798
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,920
Speaker 1: like diametrically opposed to the slave Bible. Is his Bible

799
00:44:54,040 --> 00:44:56,560
Speaker 1: is the rich person Bible. And then they cut out

800
00:44:56,600 --> 00:44:59,360
Speaker 1: the different ship for the other. Yeah yeah yeah, so

801
00:44:59,520 --> 00:45:03,560
Speaker 1: he he um he this is wildly successful. Again. He

802
00:45:03,640 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 1: makes grand in like four years, you know, in donations,

803
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:10,360
Speaker 1: which is a buckload of money. So he decides, I

804
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:12,400
Speaker 1: gotta take the ship on the road, you know, like

805
00:45:12,560 --> 00:45:14,520
Speaker 1: I could this works this well in l A. I

806
00:45:14,560 --> 00:45:18,640
Speaker 1: could make this work everywhere. He found an organization. Yeah,

807
00:45:19,760 --> 00:45:23,600
Speaker 1: he's gonna go on tour, yes, exactly. He founds an

808
00:45:23,680 --> 00:45:28,600
Speaker 1: organization called Spiritual Mobilization. Their mission was to quote arouse

809
00:45:28,680 --> 00:45:31,239
Speaker 1: the ministers of all denominations in America to check the

810
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,080
Speaker 1: trends towards pagan statism, which would destroy our basic freedom

811
00:45:35,120 --> 00:45:38,960
Speaker 1: and spiritual ideals. Pagan statism is the term you will

812
00:45:39,000 --> 00:45:42,040
Speaker 1: hear a lot. It is the first cultural Marxism um.

813
00:45:42,440 --> 00:45:45,480
Speaker 1: It's directly in that line of lineage to like pagan

814
00:45:45,560 --> 00:45:48,480
Speaker 1: statis um um or two to where we are now,

815
00:45:48,600 --> 00:45:50,880
Speaker 1: Like pagan statism is kind of like the first boogie

816
00:45:51,120 --> 00:45:53,879
Speaker 1: man term they come up with. I can see why

817
00:45:53,960 --> 00:45:58,759
Speaker 1: they upgraded to. Yeah yeah, because throw pagan in front

818
00:45:58,800 --> 00:46:00,600
Speaker 1: of anything and it sounds cool as hell. You know

819
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:04,400
Speaker 1: that's true, that's true. When I hear pagan statis m

820
00:46:04,440 --> 00:46:07,400
Speaker 1: I'm thinking of like Romans getting like drunk and and

821
00:46:07,960 --> 00:46:10,680
Speaker 1: running around the city carrying a bull on their shoulders

822
00:46:10,719 --> 00:46:17,120
Speaker 1: and ships. Yeah hell yeah. Um. So the specific way

823
00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:21,080
Speaker 1: Fifield justified Christian capitalism was to argue that God had

824
00:46:21,120 --> 00:46:24,320
Speaker 1: imbued people with certain rights and responsibilities. We had the

825
00:46:24,560 --> 00:46:27,520
Speaker 1: right to private property and the freedom of choice, including

826
00:46:27,560 --> 00:46:30,000
Speaker 1: the choice to be poor. So if the government were

827
00:46:30,040 --> 00:46:32,279
Speaker 1: to take private property from the rich and give it

828
00:46:32,360 --> 00:46:35,439
Speaker 1: to the poor, that is a violation of God's law.

829
00:46:36,000 --> 00:46:38,400
Speaker 1: The church then has a duty to defend against this.

830
00:46:38,520 --> 00:46:42,439
Speaker 1: So you're not being political by being a capitalist church.

831
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:47,200
Speaker 1: You're actually following God's law by being a capitalist church.

832
00:46:47,440 --> 00:46:51,280
Speaker 1: So not only did Christianity invent capitalism, they also created

833
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:58,600
Speaker 1: sovereign citizens. Yeah yeah, So the ideals Fifield was exploring

834
00:46:58,640 --> 00:47:02,839
Speaker 1: eventually formed into an i theology called Christian libertarianism, which

835
00:47:02,960 --> 00:47:05,640
Speaker 1: is most accurately summed up as letting rich people do

836
00:47:05,800 --> 00:47:08,640
Speaker 1: whatever they want and saying that's what God wants. Um,

837
00:47:09,120 --> 00:47:13,080
Speaker 1: you know, that's the that's the idea. I've seen that. Yeah,

838
00:47:13,280 --> 00:47:17,120
Speaker 1: you you You kind of spend every waking day of

839
00:47:17,200 --> 00:47:21,520
Speaker 1: your life in wading through the waters of Christian libertarianism.

840
00:47:22,560 --> 00:47:25,280
Speaker 1: Elon Musk weren't great, God wouldn't have given him billions

841
00:47:25,320 --> 00:47:27,680
Speaker 1: of dollars, right, that makes sense. That's what everyone says

842
00:47:27,680 --> 00:47:31,440
Speaker 1: about Elon Musk. One of five fields major supporters was

843
00:47:31,560 --> 00:47:34,640
Speaker 1: Herbert Hoover, the president who had gloriously led the United

844
00:47:34,640 --> 00:47:36,520
Speaker 1: States into the jaws of the Great Depression and then

845
00:47:36,560 --> 00:47:38,400
Speaker 1: spent the rest of his life angry that people had

846
00:47:38,480 --> 00:47:40,839
Speaker 1: voted for FDR when they'd had a chance to get

847
00:47:40,920 --> 00:47:44,279
Speaker 1: him out of office in nineteen thirty two with living

848
00:47:44,320 --> 00:47:48,160
Speaker 1: in a tent. What's wrong with that? Is Hoover's like,

849
00:47:48,200 --> 00:47:50,360
Speaker 1: why don't you like your tents? Come on, it's a

850
00:47:50,400 --> 00:47:54,160
Speaker 1: good tent. Uh. FDR won that election four hundred and

851
00:47:54,200 --> 00:47:57,800
Speaker 1: seventy two electoral votes to fifty nine. So who Herbert

852
00:47:57,840 --> 00:48:00,680
Speaker 1: Hoover is like? Licking his wounds. You know, he feels

853
00:48:01,000 --> 00:48:06,200
Speaker 1: pretty honorree about this. What were those you can look

854
00:48:06,320 --> 00:48:07,880
Speaker 1: you can look it up. There were a couple of states,

855
00:48:08,000 --> 00:48:12,319
Speaker 1: you know, the bad ones, Nuts Nuts five bucks as

856
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:15,800
Speaker 1: Tennessee is on there. Yeah, throw that out. It was

857
00:48:15,880 --> 00:48:17,440
Speaker 1: like there was a it was a union hot bet

858
00:48:17,520 --> 00:48:21,319
Speaker 1: at the time. Though, I don't know Texas that's true, Texas, yeah,

859
00:48:21,800 --> 00:48:24,480
Speaker 1: Texas probably. I don't know. Maybe we're getting it wrong

860
00:48:24,520 --> 00:48:27,040
Speaker 1: and someone's going to get like up at us on Reddit.

861
00:48:27,280 --> 00:48:29,399
Speaker 1: I have no idea who those who those states were.

862
00:48:30,040 --> 00:48:33,759
Speaker 1: Um Hoover wanted to use five Field, so they start

863
00:48:33,840 --> 00:48:36,080
Speaker 1: up like a conversation and he and he sees five

864
00:48:36,160 --> 00:48:39,800
Speaker 1: Field as like a representative of Protestant Christianity that he

865
00:48:39,880 --> 00:48:43,239
Speaker 1: can use to snipe at FDR. In e. N eight,

866
00:48:43,320 --> 00:48:45,160
Speaker 1: he writes to five Field, if it would be possible

867
00:48:45,239 --> 00:48:47,680
Speaker 1: for the church to make a non biased investigation into

868
00:48:47,719 --> 00:48:50,440
Speaker 1: the morals of this government, they would find everywhere the

869
00:48:50,480 --> 00:48:54,160
Speaker 1: old negation of Christianity that the end justifies the means.

870
00:48:54,680 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: So he's like, I want you to look into, you know,

871
00:48:56,800 --> 00:49:01,719
Speaker 1: this government as an anti Christian government because FDR gave

872
00:49:01,840 --> 00:49:07,319
Speaker 1: people social security. Um Fifield follows her Hoover's advice. Later

873
00:49:07,440 --> 00:49:09,480
Speaker 1: that year, he writes and sends out a tract to

874
00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,880
Speaker 1: more than seventy thousand clergymen in the United States, and

875
00:49:13,000 --> 00:49:15,799
Speaker 1: in the tract he says basically what Hoover had said,

876
00:49:15,840 --> 00:49:18,520
Speaker 1: and he begs his fellow ministers to follow him in

877
00:49:18,600 --> 00:49:23,560
Speaker 1: opposing FDRs socialist policies. Um Fifield wrote, quote, we ministers

878
00:49:23,640 --> 00:49:27,239
Speaker 1: have special opportunities and special responsibilities in these critical days.

879
00:49:27,560 --> 00:49:31,719
Speaker 1: America's movement towards dictatorship has already eliminated checks and balances,

880
00:49:31,760 --> 00:49:35,680
Speaker 1: and it's concentration of powers in our chief executive, which

881
00:49:35,960 --> 00:49:39,560
Speaker 1: you know, Jesus said, the meek shall inherit the earth.

882
00:49:39,719 --> 00:49:42,520
Speaker 1: But after the current rich people are already dead and

883
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:45,279
Speaker 1: their money is given away, right, well it actually we'll

884
00:49:45,320 --> 00:49:48,920
Speaker 1: see a thousand or two thousand, three thousand years or so,

885
00:49:49,080 --> 00:49:54,600
Speaker 1: the meek will totally inherit the ears. Meek, you stay

886
00:49:54,719 --> 00:49:58,799
Speaker 1: meek though, otherwise you're not going to inherit the earth. Yeah,

887
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:01,680
Speaker 1: you got. You do have to get be a little

888
00:50:01,719 --> 00:50:03,960
Speaker 1: fair here when people are talking about, you know, FDR

889
00:50:04,040 --> 00:50:07,399
Speaker 1: being a dictator. Obviously these folks are looney. But also

890
00:50:07,560 --> 00:50:09,640
Speaker 1: if you are ever going to accuse the president of

891
00:50:09,760 --> 00:50:12,000
Speaker 1: trying to be a dictator. FDR is a pretty good

892
00:50:12,040 --> 00:50:14,880
Speaker 1: one because, like he does have a lot of power

893
00:50:15,160 --> 00:50:19,080
Speaker 1: that he has centralized in himself totally. I mean, on

894
00:50:19,200 --> 00:50:21,279
Speaker 1: the other hand, he had a lot of folks to

895
00:50:21,360 --> 00:50:26,120
Speaker 1: fight against who are there on you know, there was

896
00:50:26,160 --> 00:50:29,000
Speaker 1: a lot going on in that period. It's he definitely

897
00:50:29,160 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 1: was the president at one of the toughest times to

898
00:50:31,320 --> 00:50:34,399
Speaker 1: be president. Um, did a lot right, did a lot wrong?

899
00:50:34,800 --> 00:50:39,160
Speaker 1: Uh Yeah, So Hoover, after five Field sends this letter

900
00:50:39,200 --> 00:50:41,920
Speaker 1: out to seventy thousand clergy, Hoover notes like sends a

901
00:50:42,000 --> 00:50:44,279
Speaker 1: letter back, like thanking him and telling him how much

902
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,279
Speaker 1: he appreciates it. Um. But all of this stuff, it's clear,

903
00:50:47,400 --> 00:50:50,439
Speaker 1: like sending out letters to ministers about this ship isn't

904
00:50:50,640 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: enough to catch on in any in any meaningful way.

905
00:50:54,160 --> 00:50:55,719
Speaker 1: Like five Field may have sent this letter out, but

906
00:50:55,760 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: that doesn't mean people are going to start preaching to

907
00:50:57,760 --> 00:51:00,880
Speaker 1: their congregations that the FDR administer ration is evil. For

908
00:51:01,000 --> 00:51:03,759
Speaker 1: one thing, he's the most popular president there's ever been,

909
00:51:03,920 --> 00:51:06,800
Speaker 1: you know, like there is that people. He got elected

910
00:51:06,880 --> 00:51:11,360
Speaker 1: an awful lot we like eating. Yeah, this guy is

911
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:14,120
Speaker 1: very popular, and so a lot of these ministers say

912
00:51:14,160 --> 00:51:16,759
Speaker 1: to five Field basically like, I'm not gonna do this

913
00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:21,799
Speaker 1: like everyone. He the only reason my my, my congregation

914
00:51:21,840 --> 00:51:23,600
Speaker 1: haven't starved to death as this guy. What are you

915
00:51:23,680 --> 00:51:27,200
Speaker 1: talking about? Um? Yeah. And of course there's also the

916
00:51:27,280 --> 00:51:29,839
Speaker 1: fact that you know, churches are tax exempt, but there's

917
00:51:29,880 --> 00:51:33,200
Speaker 1: ways they can lose that by lobbying directly politically. Um,

918
00:51:34,000 --> 00:51:38,000
Speaker 1: there were, there were, there were. He's got a lot

919
00:51:38,080 --> 00:51:40,680
Speaker 1: to overcome and he writes this letter. Hoover likes it,

920
00:51:40,760 --> 00:51:44,000
Speaker 1: but it doesn't do anything. So Fifield on his own,

921
00:51:44,200 --> 00:51:46,239
Speaker 1: you know, he's he's accomplished a lot in his little church.

922
00:51:46,320 --> 00:51:48,440
Speaker 1: He can make rich people feel good. He's not going

923
00:51:48,520 --> 00:51:52,360
Speaker 1: to change Christianity all on his own, but the N

924
00:51:52,440 --> 00:51:55,160
Speaker 1: A M has the resources that might allow him to

925
00:51:55,239 --> 00:51:57,120
Speaker 1: do this. And kind of on their own, they're not

926
00:51:57,160 --> 00:51:59,080
Speaker 1: going to be able to make any of this make inroads.

927
00:51:59,120 --> 00:52:02,319
Speaker 1: But together they can be an oreo of fucking up

928
00:52:02,440 --> 00:52:07,200
Speaker 1: democracy forever, like a vultron of ships, like a ship voltron.

929
00:52:07,880 --> 00:52:10,640
Speaker 1: So in nineteen forty six, with the Cold War in

930
00:52:10,719 --> 00:52:13,000
Speaker 1: its early days in World War Two behind us in

931
00:52:13,120 --> 00:52:15,800
Speaker 1: a ms PR department commissions a poll from the Opinion

932
00:52:15,880 --> 00:52:18,680
Speaker 1: Research Corporation to determine which groups did the most to

933
00:52:18,719 --> 00:52:22,560
Speaker 1: shape public opinion in the United States. Ministers topped the list.

934
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:24,800
Speaker 1: And I'm going to quote now from a doctoral thesis

935
00:52:24,880 --> 00:52:28,799
Speaker 1: by Carmen Celestini of the University of Waterloo. Quote inn

936
00:52:28,880 --> 00:52:31,600
Speaker 1: AM interpreted this finding is being potentially harmful to the

937
00:52:31,640 --> 00:52:34,880
Speaker 1: American people because, according to n a M, ministers tended

938
00:52:34,920 --> 00:52:37,680
Speaker 1: to be on the very left, both socially and fiscally.

939
00:52:38,000 --> 00:52:40,520
Speaker 1: And AM members decided to take on the responsibility to

940
00:52:40,600 --> 00:52:43,040
Speaker 1: halt a broader American swing to the left that was

941
00:52:43,160 --> 00:52:45,600
Speaker 1: led by the clergy and influenced by the social gospel

942
00:52:45,640 --> 00:52:48,800
Speaker 1: of the yearly twentieth century, Robert Wilson, the board chairman

943
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,640
Speaker 1: of the Standard Oil Company at the time, wrote, or last,

944
00:52:51,680 --> 00:52:54,040
Speaker 1: the practical minded men of business take the time and

945
00:52:54,120 --> 00:52:56,279
Speaker 1: trouble to point out the facts of history and the

946
00:52:56,400 --> 00:52:59,320
Speaker 1: serious flaws and these widely touted old world systems that

947
00:52:59,400 --> 00:53:02,759
Speaker 1: have failed so miserably. In practice, church leaders are likely

948
00:53:02,840 --> 00:53:04,920
Speaker 1: to be swung to the left. They will hear only

949
00:53:05,000 --> 00:53:07,160
Speaker 1: one side of the questions from left wingers who do

950
00:53:07,280 --> 00:53:09,359
Speaker 1: take the time to talk with them, and on them,

951
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,520
Speaker 1: you lost that impression. I felt like I felt like

952
00:53:15,680 --> 00:53:21,200
Speaker 1: he's alive. I felt like trying to look. Do you

953
00:53:21,239 --> 00:53:24,400
Speaker 1: know who my favorite person on SNL was Jimmy Fallon.

954
00:53:24,600 --> 00:53:27,480
Speaker 1: That was my favorite one because he never did a

955
00:53:27,520 --> 00:53:31,719
Speaker 1: good job. I do. I did, like you know, the

956
00:53:31,760 --> 00:53:34,280
Speaker 1: beautiful thing about Jimmy Fallon is that it's it's proof

957
00:53:34,360 --> 00:53:37,400
Speaker 1: that you don't need to be funny or talented, or

958
00:53:37,560 --> 00:53:41,400
Speaker 1: good at talking, or good at anything, or even legally

959
00:53:41,480 --> 00:53:44,799
Speaker 1: a human being to be a popular television host. It's

960
00:53:44,840 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: gotta be nice. So the the n a M launches

961
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:55,520
Speaker 1: a bunch of PR campaigns kind of based on Wilson's

962
00:53:55,560 --> 00:53:58,160
Speaker 1: idea of trying to explain the facts of history, you know,

963
00:53:58,280 --> 00:54:02,480
Speaker 1: to Americans to enter this leftward swing of the clergy um.

964
00:54:02,600 --> 00:54:04,880
Speaker 1: And this is like a full court press. By nineteen

965
00:54:04,960 --> 00:54:08,160
Speaker 1: forty nine, there's print, radio, TV ads, billboards all aimed

966
00:54:08,200 --> 00:54:13,680
Speaker 1: at mobilizing Americans against socialism and for Christianity. So Lestini continues, quote.

967
00:54:13,920 --> 00:54:16,760
Speaker 1: An initiative was led by Charles E. Wilson, General Electrics

968
00:54:16,800 --> 00:54:20,040
Speaker 1: President under the Religion in America An American Life r

969
00:54:20,080 --> 00:54:22,920
Speaker 1: i a L Committee, which was a religious public relations

970
00:54:23,000 --> 00:54:26,720
Speaker 1: campaign sponsored by corporations, religious leaders, and the American government.

971
00:54:27,040 --> 00:54:29,840
Speaker 1: As his storian, John P. Herzog described in this successful

972
00:54:29,880 --> 00:54:33,759
Speaker 1: ten year campaign used celebrity endorsements to convince Americans that

973
00:54:33,800 --> 00:54:38,960
Speaker 1: religious participation was a normative act. So they're kind of trying.

974
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:42,239
Speaker 1: They're trying to like make the case in this that

975
00:54:42,360 --> 00:54:46,680
Speaker 1: like socialism is anti religion, and religion isn't Christianity is

976
00:54:46,719 --> 00:54:51,200
Speaker 1: inherently American. They're not yet saying capitalism is inherently Christian,

977
00:54:51,280 --> 00:54:53,440
Speaker 1: but they are. This whole effort is sponsored by like

978
00:54:53,560 --> 00:54:55,960
Speaker 1: General Electric and ship right, So you can see this

979
00:54:56,000 --> 00:55:02,280
Speaker 1: stuff starting to get tied together. Um to lay the groundwork, groundwork,

980
00:55:02,360 --> 00:55:04,880
Speaker 1: that's what they're trying to do here. And in nineteen

981
00:55:04,920 --> 00:55:07,440
Speaker 1: thirty four in a M spent thirty six thousand dollars

982
00:55:07,520 --> 00:55:10,600
Speaker 1: on PR. In ninety seven it was eight hundred thousand dollars,

983
00:55:10,600 --> 00:55:12,640
Speaker 1: and it goes up from there. So they are they

984
00:55:12,680 --> 00:55:15,759
Speaker 1: are like massively increasing their PR budgets to put this

985
00:55:15,880 --> 00:55:19,160
Speaker 1: propaganda out there. One technique they pioneered, they're the first

986
00:55:19,200 --> 00:55:21,480
Speaker 1: people to do this is they had a speakers bureau

987
00:55:21,880 --> 00:55:24,440
Speaker 1: that would get speakers into public schools to talk to

988
00:55:24,560 --> 00:55:28,880
Speaker 1: kids about Christianity and against socialism. They also were the

989
00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,160
Speaker 1: first to build a press service that would provide editorial

990
00:55:32,400 --> 00:55:37,239
Speaker 1: articles for newspapers to publish. Um just like, well here's

991
00:55:37,400 --> 00:55:41,120
Speaker 1: like yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, they're they're they're the first

992
00:55:41,200 --> 00:55:44,040
Speaker 1: people doing that, and they're this originally eventually reaches more

993
00:55:44,080 --> 00:55:46,960
Speaker 1: than seventy five hundred newspapers in the United States that

994
00:55:47,000 --> 00:55:51,040
Speaker 1: they put editorials, and this is a massive propaganda. Like

995
00:55:51,520 --> 00:55:56,960
Speaker 1: I I understand that this is obvious and it's fundamentally

996
00:55:57,000 --> 00:56:01,320
Speaker 1: a little naive, but like, that's not fair. It's not

997
00:56:01,560 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: it's not it's not like it seems like it seems

998
00:56:05,160 --> 00:56:08,279
Speaker 1: like it should be easier to convince people like of

999
00:56:08,680 --> 00:56:11,520
Speaker 1: of my positions on things just by telling them that,

1000
00:56:11,640 --> 00:56:14,439
Speaker 1: because it seems so obvious that it's just like, that's

1001
00:56:14,440 --> 00:56:18,000
Speaker 1: not fair, Like even if you disagree with my ultimate ends,

1002
00:56:18,160 --> 00:56:21,439
Speaker 1: just like, let's make that fair, just one thing. Let's

1003
00:56:21,480 --> 00:56:23,600
Speaker 1: try and make one thing fair. So it sounds like

1004
00:56:23,680 --> 00:56:26,680
Speaker 1: you don't like freedom. It sounds like you don't like

1005
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:29,640
Speaker 1: the people's ability to speak, freedom of a couple of

1006
00:56:29,760 --> 00:56:35,120
Speaker 1: dudes to play seventy and the only Freedom and Oppression Band.

1007
00:56:35,200 --> 00:56:37,800
Speaker 1: But what is that other than speech? That sounds like

1008
00:56:37,920 --> 00:56:39,800
Speaker 1: you don't like the First Amendment. You know what, I

1009
00:56:40,040 --> 00:56:42,759
Speaker 1: probably would have been a bad Supreme Court. I think

1010
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:52,040
Speaker 1: we found the Pinko get Hoover over there. You know

1011
00:56:52,160 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: who else will purge the reds from our mists that

1012
00:57:01,520 --> 00:57:05,879
Speaker 1: actually exclusively purchased children from their parents homes and puts

1013
00:57:05,960 --> 00:57:07,879
Speaker 1: them on their island off the coast of Indonesia where

1014
00:57:07,920 --> 00:57:10,320
Speaker 1: you can hunt them for sport. And coming soon to

1015
00:57:10,400 --> 00:57:13,399
Speaker 1: Little St. James, Coming soon to Little St. James. It's

1016
00:57:13,400 --> 00:57:15,880
Speaker 1: going to be the euro Disney of hunting children for sport.

1017
00:57:19,400 --> 00:57:29,960
Speaker 1: Uh ads, We're back. So as we've talked about, this

1018
00:57:30,080 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: propaganda campaign that the n a m. Carries out has

1019
00:57:33,440 --> 00:57:37,080
Speaker 1: reaches a shipload of people, but it also doesn't do

1020
00:57:37,280 --> 00:57:39,600
Speaker 1: the trick. It is not as successful as they wanted

1021
00:57:39,680 --> 00:57:42,600
Speaker 1: to be because it's really crude and obvious propaganda. And

1022
00:57:42,640 --> 00:57:46,040
Speaker 1: I'm gonna quote from Kevin Cruz again here. Ultimately, though

1023
00:57:46,080 --> 00:57:49,480
Speaker 1: industry self promotion was seen as precisely that Jim Farley,

1024
00:57:49,560 --> 00:57:52,200
Speaker 1: chairman of the Democratic Party, joked that another group involved

1025
00:57:52,240 --> 00:57:55,320
Speaker 1: in this public relations campaign, the American Liberty League, really

1026
00:57:55,360 --> 00:57:58,320
Speaker 1: should have been called the American Cellophane League. First, it's

1027
00:57:58,360 --> 00:58:01,280
Speaker 1: a DuPont product, Farley equipped. And second, you can see

1028
00:58:01,440 --> 00:58:05,360
Speaker 1: right through it. Even President Franklin Delano Roosevelt took his shots.

1029
00:58:05,560 --> 00:58:07,600
Speaker 1: It has been said that there are two great commandments.

1030
00:58:07,680 --> 00:58:09,200
Speaker 1: One is to love God and the other is to

1031
00:58:09,280 --> 00:58:12,320
Speaker 1: love your neighbor. He noted soon after the Liberty League's creation,

1032
00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,640
Speaker 1: the two particular tenants of this new organization say you

1033
00:58:15,720 --> 00:58:18,560
Speaker 1: should love God and then forget your neighbor. Off the record,

1034
00:58:18,640 --> 00:58:20,520
Speaker 1: he joked that the name of the God they worshiped

1035
00:58:20,560 --> 00:58:25,120
Speaker 1: seemed to be property, which is absolutely I mean, you

1036
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: could have you could have put the nail on the

1037
00:58:27,520 --> 00:58:29,960
Speaker 1: with the molock, but you know, you still you still

1038
00:58:30,000 --> 00:58:32,680
Speaker 1: crushed it. I'm still proud of him. So this effort

1039
00:58:32,760 --> 00:58:34,920
Speaker 1: that the n A M is like, and the the

1040
00:58:35,040 --> 00:58:36,320
Speaker 1: part of the n A M that kind of like

1041
00:58:36,480 --> 00:58:42,600
Speaker 1: Wilson is leading. Um, they're trying to support public religion,

1042
00:58:43,520 --> 00:58:46,959
Speaker 1: make the act of religion anti socialist um, and tie

1043
00:58:47,040 --> 00:58:49,400
Speaker 1: that into capitalism, just by the fact that it's sponsored

1044
00:58:49,440 --> 00:58:52,000
Speaker 1: by corporations. Right. It's kind of a subtle thing compared

1045
00:58:52,000 --> 00:58:55,080
Speaker 1: to what Fifield is doing. Reverend Fifield wants to make

1046
00:58:55,240 --> 00:58:59,640
Speaker 1: Christianity capitalist and celebrate wealth as the evidence that God

1047
00:58:59,720 --> 00:59:05,000
Speaker 1: loves you. Um. And that is like, you know, there's

1048
00:59:05,000 --> 00:59:06,400
Speaker 1: that chunk of the N A M. That's kind of

1049
00:59:06,440 --> 00:59:08,560
Speaker 1: going about it in a different way. But there's increasingly

1050
00:59:08,840 --> 00:59:10,640
Speaker 1: in the forties a group of guys in the n

1051
00:59:10,680 --> 00:59:12,360
Speaker 1: A M who start to see what five Fields doing

1052
00:59:12,400 --> 00:59:14,280
Speaker 1: and they're like, no, no, no, no, no, this is

1053
00:59:14,400 --> 00:59:17,240
Speaker 1: the way. This is what's gonna fucking work. And the

1054
00:59:17,320 --> 00:59:19,680
Speaker 1: two men who are leading that charge at the n

1055
00:59:19,720 --> 00:59:23,400
Speaker 1: a M are Jasper E. Crane, who is a DuPont executive,

1056
00:59:23,840 --> 00:59:27,000
Speaker 1: and J. Howard Pew. Now does that name sound familiar

1057
00:59:27,000 --> 00:59:32,800
Speaker 1: to you, guys? P p doesn't mean anything. There's that

1058
00:59:34,200 --> 00:59:38,000
Speaker 1: per Listen, listen. If you expect me to know that ship,

1059
00:59:38,200 --> 00:59:40,680
Speaker 1: you're way off. Now you've heard like the pu Pole period.

1060
00:59:41,440 --> 00:59:44,440
Speaker 1: Yeah well yeah, well yeah yeah, that that's that's who

1061
00:59:44,560 --> 00:59:47,000
Speaker 1: this is. What do you think he came up with

1062
00:59:47,120 --> 00:59:51,440
Speaker 1: church legitimately thought he came up with churchmanship? I know,

1063
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:54,960
Speaker 1: you think that's a joke. Everyone was just stand in

1064
00:59:55,080 --> 00:59:58,560
Speaker 1: the centuries before named them that. It had to be

1065
00:59:58,680 --> 01:00:02,200
Speaker 1: a guy named p. No. Pew is. He was the

1066
01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,600
Speaker 1: namesake of the Pew Research Center. He and his brother

1067
01:00:04,640 --> 01:00:06,840
Speaker 1: are He and his brother are both rich business guys,

1068
01:00:07,160 --> 01:00:10,200
Speaker 1: and they start an organization called the Pew Charitable Trust

1069
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:14,120
Speaker 1: UM and in nineteen six the Pew Charitable Trust starts.

1070
01:00:15,200 --> 01:00:17,840
Speaker 1: So before the Pew Research Center is the Pew Research Center.

1071
01:00:17,880 --> 01:00:20,120
Speaker 1: It's owned by the Times Mirror Company, and it's doing

1072
01:00:20,160 --> 01:00:24,120
Speaker 1: polling through there. And in the Pew Charitable Trust starts

1073
01:00:24,160 --> 01:00:26,800
Speaker 1: funding the Times Mirror companies research Center and it gets

1074
01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:30,480
Speaker 1: renamed the Pew Research Center. So that's where the name

1075
01:00:30,600 --> 01:00:33,320
Speaker 1: of the Pew Polling does. He does not found Pew Polling,

1076
01:00:33,400 --> 01:00:35,200
Speaker 1: but it is founded like in his name, by the

1077
01:00:35,360 --> 01:00:38,840
Speaker 1: organization that he helped to found. So J. Howard Pew

1078
01:00:39,000 --> 01:00:42,200
Speaker 1: was the founder of sun Oil Company and one of

1079
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,120
Speaker 1: the wealthiest men on the planet Sunoco, right, Like that's

1080
01:00:45,240 --> 01:00:47,720
Speaker 1: that's this dude, um, and he has all of the

1081
01:00:47,800 --> 01:00:51,760
Speaker 1: money ever, Yeah it was. It's literally him in a

1082
01:00:51,840 --> 01:00:56,080
Speaker 1: du pot right like it is talking about the oligarchy

1083
01:00:59,720 --> 01:01:04,120
Speaker 1: good times. Definitely. These guys had strong opinions on yacht racing. Um,

1084
01:01:04,960 --> 01:01:08,040
Speaker 1: no questions. How are we going to fix the World

1085
01:01:08,160 --> 01:01:13,080
Speaker 1: Series this year? That's what m Yeah yeah um. So J.

1086
01:01:13,240 --> 01:01:15,720
Speaker 1: Howard Pew dedicated a lot of his time earlier in

1087
01:01:15,800 --> 01:01:17,920
Speaker 1: his life to supporting the Republican Party. He backed a

1088
01:01:17,960 --> 01:01:21,560
Speaker 1: slew of anti New Deal organizations with names like Sentinels

1089
01:01:21,600 --> 01:01:25,120
Speaker 1: of the Republic, the Crusaders, and the Independent Coalition of

1090
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:29,200
Speaker 1: American Women. When he founded his J. Howard Pew Freedom Trust,

1091
01:01:29,280 --> 01:01:32,360
Speaker 1: he stated that its mission was to warn Americans about socialism,

1092
01:01:32,600 --> 01:01:35,760
Speaker 1: welfare state, is m Marxism, fascism, and any other for

1093
01:01:36,160 --> 01:01:39,360
Speaker 1: like forms of government intervention, to equate the American people

1094
01:01:39,400 --> 01:01:41,760
Speaker 1: with the values of the free market, the dangers of inflation,

1095
01:01:42,040 --> 01:01:45,200
Speaker 1: the need for a stable monetary standard. And again Pew

1096
01:01:45,320 --> 01:01:48,400
Speaker 1: like all these other guys, these are like America first types.

1097
01:01:48,480 --> 01:01:50,880
Speaker 1: But then fascism. You can't support fascism because about half

1098
01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:54,200
Speaker 1: a million Americans die fighting it. So facis Marxism are

1099
01:01:54,240 --> 01:01:58,400
Speaker 1: the same same thing, ignoring the twenty million dead communists.

1100
01:01:59,520 --> 01:02:06,080
Speaker 1: What are you gonna complaine? Same thing? Um. Yeah, And

1101
01:02:06,200 --> 01:02:10,120
Speaker 1: obviously fascism only ever gets to power with the buy

1102
01:02:10,240 --> 01:02:13,120
Speaker 1: in of the wealthy. But you know, that's a story

1103
01:02:13,640 --> 01:02:15,720
Speaker 1: for another day, and a story we told a couple

1104
01:02:15,760 --> 01:02:17,680
Speaker 1: of years ago. Yeah, I was gonna say, that's a

1105
01:02:17,720 --> 01:02:20,440
Speaker 1: story for literally every story you tell. Yeah, that's just

1106
01:02:20,600 --> 01:02:24,400
Speaker 1: a story for that's just the story. So hughes first

1107
01:02:24,440 --> 01:02:27,200
Speaker 1: big attempt to culture jam his beliefs about capitalism into

1108
01:02:27,240 --> 01:02:30,720
Speaker 1: mainstream religion came through his work with an organization called

1109
01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,440
Speaker 1: the Layman's Council for the National Council of Churches. The

1110
01:02:33,600 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 1: n c C is like this big national church organization UM.

1111
01:02:37,960 --> 01:02:40,120
Speaker 1: And his goal was not to put politics in the

1112
01:02:40,240 --> 01:02:42,120
Speaker 1: n c C. First. He just wanted to push them

1113
01:02:42,160 --> 01:02:44,920
Speaker 1: to not be political, because he thought the clergy was

1114
01:02:45,040 --> 01:02:47,880
Speaker 1: so left wing that you could never like turn them right.

1115
01:02:48,200 --> 01:02:49,440
Speaker 1: So the best you can do is get them to

1116
01:02:49,520 --> 01:02:52,560
Speaker 1: not talk about politics. And he eventually gave the n

1117
01:02:52,640 --> 01:02:55,360
Speaker 1: c C up as hopelessly liberal. And when he reported

1118
01:02:55,400 --> 01:02:57,840
Speaker 1: back to his n a M colleagues about the fact that, like, hey,

1119
01:02:58,120 --> 01:03:01,120
Speaker 1: we're not gonna get We're not gonna at these leftist

1120
01:03:01,200 --> 01:03:04,880
Speaker 1: ministers to stop talking about socialism, his buddy Jasper Crane

1121
01:03:05,120 --> 01:03:08,360
Speaker 1: agrees that, like the n c C is a lost cause. Now.

1122
01:03:08,480 --> 01:03:10,800
Speaker 1: Crane had made his millions in plastics, and like Pew,

1123
01:03:10,880 --> 01:03:13,120
Speaker 1: he spent them backing a variety of far right causes,

1124
01:03:13,160 --> 01:03:16,560
Speaker 1: including a newspaper he called The Free Man. He was

1125
01:03:16,640 --> 01:03:24,040
Speaker 1: heavily involved in Princeton's theological yeah, and he kept up

1126
01:03:24,040 --> 01:03:27,240
Speaker 1: a bracing correspondence with different pastors. When Pew came to

1127
01:03:27,320 --> 01:03:29,560
Speaker 1: him complaining about the n c C, he wrote, quote,

1128
01:03:29,960 --> 01:03:32,560
Speaker 1: this nation under God was the slogan of the National

1129
01:03:32,640 --> 01:03:34,720
Speaker 1: Council of Churches when it was organized, and I have

1130
01:03:34,720 --> 01:03:37,240
Speaker 1: always felt that it was an incomplete quotation that has

1131
01:03:37,280 --> 01:03:40,240
Speaker 1: been improperly used in some quarters. What Lincoln said was

1132
01:03:40,440 --> 01:03:42,800
Speaker 1: this nation, under God shall have a new birth of freedom.

1133
01:03:43,040 --> 01:03:45,560
Speaker 1: That has sounded magnificent, for liberty comes from God, and

1134
01:03:45,680 --> 01:03:49,040
Speaker 1: freedom it's environment is maintained by the state. The United

1135
01:03:49,080 --> 01:03:52,600
Speaker 1: States of America dedicated to freedom affected the separation of

1136
01:03:52,680 --> 01:03:54,840
Speaker 1: church and state. But that in no way through over

1137
01:03:54,920 --> 01:03:58,200
Speaker 1: the doctrine that this nation is under God's governance. So

1138
01:03:58,280 --> 01:04:00,320
Speaker 1: you see why they're one under God. To he added

1139
01:04:00,360 --> 01:04:03,560
Speaker 1: to things right, because under God, to them means God

1140
01:04:03,640 --> 01:04:06,600
Speaker 1: wants you to be free. Freedom is property. So by

1141
01:04:06,720 --> 01:04:08,960
Speaker 1: saying this nation is under God, we are saying this

1142
01:04:09,160 --> 01:04:12,040
Speaker 1: nation has to be dedicated to the preservation of property rights.

1143
01:04:12,360 --> 01:04:15,160
Speaker 1: That's the argument he's making. It's like an entire speech

1144
01:04:15,320 --> 01:04:18,400
Speaker 1: is just like shut down to just like I feel

1145
01:04:18,480 --> 01:04:21,560
Speaker 1: like you guys are incapable of critical thought, and they're

1146
01:04:21,600 --> 01:04:24,280
Speaker 1: all like you we yeah, totally you were. Yeah, you're

1147
01:04:24,320 --> 01:04:29,520
Speaker 1: the smartest dude I've ever met. Yeah, um oh boy.

1148
01:04:29,640 --> 01:04:31,520
Speaker 1: And Dan, we are coming up to a quote you're

1149
01:04:31,520 --> 01:04:34,160
Speaker 1: gonna like, um, So, I think that might be the

1150
01:04:34,240 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 1: first time I've come across an idea that is now

1151
01:04:36,680 --> 01:04:39,440
Speaker 1: very normative in right wing circles, that like, separation of

1152
01:04:39,520 --> 01:04:42,520
Speaker 1: state doesn't mean this isn't a Christian country. Um. And

1153
01:04:42,640 --> 01:04:46,479
Speaker 1: to Crane into Pew, Christianity and capitalism, we're hand in glove.

1154
01:04:46,520 --> 01:04:48,520
Speaker 1: They very much are in agreement with five Field about

1155
01:04:48,520 --> 01:04:51,880
Speaker 1: this and Crane and Pew exchange letters that we have,

1156
01:04:52,120 --> 01:04:54,320
Speaker 1: And in one of these letters, Crane writes that the

1157
01:04:54,440 --> 01:04:58,960
Speaker 1: United States was presently mired quote with ensuing bewilderment and terror,

1158
01:04:59,080 --> 01:05:03,240
Speaker 1: mounting crime, juvenile delinquency, sin, suffering, and sorrow. As the

1159
01:05:03,280 --> 01:05:07,920
Speaker 1: different manifestations of socialism have spread across the world communism, fascism,

1160
01:05:08,080 --> 01:05:13,680
Speaker 1: national socialism, interventionalism, Fabian socialism, the New Deal, the welfare state,

1161
01:05:13,720 --> 01:05:16,800
Speaker 1: the danger becomes a cute civil civilization with liberty and

1162
01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:22,840
Speaker 1: human dignity seems doomed. List five more things I do love.

1163
01:05:22,880 --> 01:05:26,520
Speaker 1: We got a Fabian socialism. You're all about Fabian socialism, Dan,

1164
01:05:27,440 --> 01:05:29,880
Speaker 1: I'm all about it. I mean, I guess Alex yells

1165
01:05:29,880 --> 01:05:32,640
Speaker 1: about it a bit. Yeah, I learned about it from

1166
01:05:32,680 --> 01:05:36,040
Speaker 1: watching you and talking about Alex, do you sound like

1167
01:05:36,160 --> 01:05:40,760
Speaker 1: you're talking to like dad, Like I'm doing these drugs

1168
01:05:41,320 --> 01:05:46,520
Speaker 1: watching from watching so Pew and Crane, you know, this

1169
01:05:46,680 --> 01:05:49,120
Speaker 1: is a dark hour for them there there they convinced

1170
01:05:49,160 --> 01:05:52,560
Speaker 1: civilization is doomed because they're they're rich, are being taxed

1171
01:05:52,880 --> 01:05:55,720
Speaker 1: and it could have been a great comedy duo in Britain.

1172
01:05:55,880 --> 01:05:59,640
Speaker 1: Pew and Yeah, Pew and Crane, I would watch the

1173
01:05:59,720 --> 01:06:02,960
Speaker 1: ship it out? Is that the King and Buckingham Palace

1174
01:06:03,280 --> 01:06:09,560
Speaker 1: a fife. Yeah, Hey they call him Dr Pepper because

1175
01:06:09,600 --> 01:06:11,360
Speaker 1: he drinks a lot of soda. That would have been

1176
01:06:11,520 --> 01:06:14,200
Speaker 1: that would have been a better world. Um. So yeah,

1177
01:06:14,760 --> 01:06:17,240
Speaker 1: they they decide after this thing with the n c

1178
01:06:17,440 --> 01:06:19,920
Speaker 1: C fails and they see like the propaganda that their

1179
01:06:19,960 --> 01:06:21,480
Speaker 1: buddies in the n a M. Coming up with just

1180
01:06:21,640 --> 01:06:23,640
Speaker 1: does not seem to be sticking the way they wanted to,

1181
01:06:24,360 --> 01:06:28,160
Speaker 1: they decide to invest in Reverend fifield Um. Now, Pugh

1182
01:06:28,320 --> 01:06:30,160
Speaker 1: was well aware of five Field's work, and while he

1183
01:06:30,400 --> 01:06:34,480
Speaker 1: while he admired the Christian libertarianism that Fifield supported, he

1184
01:06:34,640 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 1: was really cynical about the hands off approach that Fifield

1185
01:06:37,440 --> 01:06:39,920
Speaker 1: took to actually spreading his ideology. These like letters that

1186
01:06:40,000 --> 01:06:43,480
Speaker 1: he's sending ministers. Fifield mainly just like Shotgun to essays

1187
01:06:43,520 --> 01:06:45,640
Speaker 1: and arguments out to ministers that he had on his

1188
01:06:45,800 --> 01:06:48,760
Speaker 1: mailing list, But he believed in leaving the details of

1189
01:06:48,880 --> 01:06:51,120
Speaker 1: what they should do up to the individual ministers. He

1190
01:06:51,120 --> 01:06:53,160
Speaker 1: didn't want to actually tell people what to do. And

1191
01:06:53,240 --> 01:06:55,720
Speaker 1: Pugh wrote about this quote, I am frank to confess

1192
01:06:55,800 --> 01:06:58,520
Speaker 1: that if Dr Fifield has developed a concrete program and

1193
01:06:58,560 --> 01:07:00,760
Speaker 1: knows exactly where he is going and what he expects

1194
01:07:00,800 --> 01:07:04,040
Speaker 1: to accomplish, that conception has never become clearly defined in

1195
01:07:04,120 --> 01:07:07,080
Speaker 1: my mind. So he's kind of critical about this guy.

1196
01:07:07,480 --> 01:07:09,720
Speaker 1: But Pugh was savvy enough to realize that in a MS,

1197
01:07:09,720 --> 01:07:12,840
Speaker 1: propaganda has failed. One of his colleagues in the organization

1198
01:07:12,920 --> 01:07:16,800
Speaker 1: reported in quote of the approximately thirty preachers with whom

1199
01:07:16,800 --> 01:07:18,360
Speaker 1: I have thus spar talked, I have yet to find

1200
01:07:18,440 --> 01:07:21,640
Speaker 1: one who was unqualifiedly impressed. One of the men put

1201
01:07:21,680 --> 01:07:23,520
Speaker 1: it most typically for the rest when he said, the

1202
01:07:23,600 --> 01:07:26,080
Speaker 1: careful preparation and framework for the meetings to which we

1203
01:07:26,160 --> 01:07:28,400
Speaker 1: are brought to is too apparent. We cannot help but

1204
01:07:28,480 --> 01:07:30,840
Speaker 1: see that it is expertly designed propaganda, and that there

1205
01:07:30,920 --> 01:07:33,800
Speaker 1: must be big money behind it. We easily become suspicious,

1206
01:07:34,080 --> 01:07:36,880
Speaker 1: So like, what you're doing is obvious. So alright, alright,

1207
01:07:37,080 --> 01:07:39,920
Speaker 1: bail on the ministers. Now we gotta go for the kids. Okay,

1208
01:07:40,080 --> 01:07:42,880
Speaker 1: they're not smart enough to cut through our bullshit, so

1209
01:07:43,160 --> 01:07:47,439
Speaker 1: let's convince that they're their children to support capitalists after

1210
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,120
Speaker 1: the kids. Yeah, that's the plan. I also I also

1211
01:07:50,240 --> 01:07:52,640
Speaker 1: like the idea that there's that that realization of like

1212
01:07:53,360 --> 01:07:56,800
Speaker 1: this propaganda is too good. Yeah, no one's gonna fall

1213
01:07:56,920 --> 01:08:01,280
Speaker 1: for it. It's so obviously well funded. It's really shamefully

1214
01:08:01,320 --> 01:08:08,280
Speaker 1: obvious Twitter account. Yeah, and it's one of these things.

1215
01:08:08,480 --> 01:08:11,080
Speaker 1: You know, what these guys are doing is very self

1216
01:08:11,160 --> 01:08:13,880
Speaker 1: serving obviously, and it's it's very cynical, and it's easy

1217
01:08:13,960 --> 01:08:18,000
Speaker 1: to believe that they're kind of like doing it um cynically.

1218
01:08:18,960 --> 01:08:21,760
Speaker 1: But I don't. I don't. I think these guys are believers.

1219
01:08:21,960 --> 01:08:24,559
Speaker 1: I think they really believe what they are saying about

1220
01:08:24,640 --> 01:08:27,760
Speaker 1: Christianity and capitalism. I don't think they're doing this as

1221
01:08:27,840 --> 01:08:32,280
Speaker 1: sort of like a cold uh act of culture jamming.

1222
01:08:32,360 --> 01:08:34,799
Speaker 1: I think they're they are trying to get their sincere

1223
01:08:34,880 --> 01:08:40,280
Speaker 1: beliefs out into the mainstream. Feels generous, Yeah, I let me.

1224
01:08:40,320 --> 01:08:42,080
Speaker 1: I'm gonna read a letter to you that Crane wrote

1225
01:08:42,120 --> 01:08:45,519
Speaker 1: to Wilbert Leroux, a prominent Presbyterian, in ninety seven about

1226
01:08:45,600 --> 01:08:48,760
Speaker 1: spiritual mobilization five Fields group, because it gives you an

1227
01:08:48,760 --> 01:08:53,040
Speaker 1: insight and how Crane's thinking about things. They spiritual mobilization

1228
01:08:53,120 --> 01:08:55,240
Speaker 1: have simply stood for liberty of man as a son

1229
01:08:55,280 --> 01:08:57,639
Speaker 1: of God, created as a free being in the image

1230
01:08:57,640 --> 01:09:00,400
Speaker 1: of God. Now, the insistence on liberty is a fundamental

1231
01:09:00,439 --> 01:09:03,240
Speaker 1: principle for mankind, maybe termed controversial because it is a

1232
01:09:03,280 --> 01:09:07,240
Speaker 1: revolutionary concept, so is Christianity. Liberty is being attacked and

1233
01:09:07,360 --> 01:09:09,080
Speaker 1: called lots of things which it is not by the

1234
01:09:09,120 --> 01:09:12,120
Speaker 1: fellow travelers and even by many who lack understanding of

1235
01:09:12,200 --> 01:09:15,920
Speaker 1: the truth and indulgent idolatry of the state, a pagan philosophy.

1236
01:09:16,880 --> 01:09:19,679
Speaker 1: So that that's that's he's he's making like a pretty

1237
01:09:19,800 --> 01:09:25,240
Speaker 1: nuanced theological argument that liberty is property. Supporting property is

1238
01:09:25,280 --> 01:09:28,760
Speaker 1: a revolutionary concept because it means overthrowing the state. But

1239
01:09:28,880 --> 01:09:31,080
Speaker 1: you have to overthrow the state as a Christian because

1240
01:09:31,120 --> 01:09:33,920
Speaker 1: the state is a pagan philosophy. It is a it

1241
01:09:34,040 --> 01:09:37,080
Speaker 1: is an idol that's anti God. Like that's what this

1242
01:09:37,280 --> 01:09:41,760
Speaker 1: I think he believes what he's saying. Hmmm, that is

1243
01:09:42,160 --> 01:09:46,800
Speaker 1: a question of I mean, people believed a lot of

1244
01:09:46,840 --> 01:09:50,400
Speaker 1: crazy ship. Yeah, I mean that doesn't make it is

1245
01:09:50,439 --> 01:09:54,080
Speaker 1: the question like are these millionaires trying to like, uh

1246
01:09:54,920 --> 01:09:57,640
Speaker 1: like exploit capitalism. Are they doing it cynically or are

1247
01:09:57,680 --> 01:10:00,160
Speaker 1: they doing it because that's what they believe about? It

1248
01:10:00,600 --> 01:10:02,600
Speaker 1: is like a question of cynicism. Yeah, I mean I

1249
01:10:02,720 --> 01:10:07,160
Speaker 1: think it gets to the ultimate like stupid v evil continuum.

1250
01:10:07,360 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: You know, like, yeah, of course you're stupid, But where

1251
01:10:10,160 --> 01:10:14,280
Speaker 1: on the evil continuum side are you if you're capable

1252
01:10:14,400 --> 01:10:18,040
Speaker 1: of like analyzing how evil your own actions are? Yeah,

1253
01:10:18,439 --> 01:10:20,360
Speaker 1: do you know what I'm saying? Yeah? Yeah, And that

1254
01:10:20,560 --> 01:10:23,640
Speaker 1: is Yeah, that is the question. Um. And obviously I

1255
01:10:23,680 --> 01:10:26,600
Speaker 1: don't I don't purport to have an absolute answer to that,

1256
01:10:26,720 --> 01:10:28,919
Speaker 1: but I kind of feel like these guys were believers,

1257
01:10:29,360 --> 01:10:31,280
Speaker 1: uh and I want to I don't know. I feel like,

1258
01:10:31,360 --> 01:10:33,360
Speaker 1: if you get a million dollars, the only thing you

1259
01:10:33,439 --> 01:10:36,599
Speaker 1: believe in his million dollars, you know what I'm saying. Also,

1260
01:10:36,720 --> 01:10:41,960
Speaker 1: you're gonna yeah, well yeah, that's kind of what I like,

1261
01:10:42,080 --> 01:10:45,000
Speaker 1: your your core belief is, I would like more than

1262
01:10:45,040 --> 01:10:49,760
Speaker 1: a million dollars and then everything that spirals out from there. Yeah.

1263
01:10:49,960 --> 01:10:52,200
Speaker 1: But also if you're if the belief system you live

1264
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:56,320
Speaker 1: in is Christianity, your core belief isn't just I want

1265
01:10:56,360 --> 01:10:59,280
Speaker 1: to have more money. Your core belief might be Jesus

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01:10:59,360 --> 01:11:02,360
Speaker 1: wants me to have more money. You know, like that's true,

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01:11:02,600 --> 01:11:05,160
Speaker 1: that it's it's a debatable point. Um. I'm going to

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01:11:05,200 --> 01:11:08,240
Speaker 1: read a quote by Eckert Toy writing for Pacific Northwest

1269
01:11:08,320 --> 01:11:11,240
Speaker 1: Quarterly again kind of about is this is this Eckhart

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01:11:11,320 --> 01:11:17,040
Speaker 1: to hurt Toy Toy Jr. Actually so far still an

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01:11:17,080 --> 01:11:21,800
Speaker 1: inspirational person. In nineteen seven five, Field and Spiritual Mobilization

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01:11:21,840 --> 01:11:24,439
Speaker 1: planned a program called Freedom in Peril. The plan was

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01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:26,880
Speaker 1: to send out the manuscripts of more than fifteen thousand

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01:11:26,960 --> 01:11:29,840
Speaker 1: copies of sermons on the subject of freedom. Ministers across

1275
01:11:29,880 --> 01:11:31,880
Speaker 1: the country were to preach them in October that year.

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01:11:32,200 --> 01:11:34,679
Speaker 1: All they had to sign was a return postcard indicating

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01:11:34,680 --> 01:11:37,080
Speaker 1: their willingness to preach on the subject of freedom. There

1278
01:11:37,120 --> 01:11:39,600
Speaker 1: were built in incentive incentives in the plan. If they

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01:11:39,720 --> 01:11:42,320
Speaker 1: preached one of the sermons on a specific date, ministers

1280
01:11:42,360 --> 01:11:45,120
Speaker 1: will be entered into a contest for substantial prizes. In

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01:11:45,200 --> 01:11:48,760
Speaker 1: a telegram dated October ninety seven five, Field wrote to

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01:11:48,840 --> 01:11:51,719
Speaker 1: Crane that twenty five thousand pastors from a wide spectrum

1283
01:11:51,720 --> 01:11:54,120
Speaker 1: of denominations had preached his sermon on the Perils to

1284
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:57,920
Speaker 1: Freedom as a part of spiritual mobilization's crusade. So now

1285
01:11:58,120 --> 01:12:00,920
Speaker 1: we have five fields take their money. And he has

1286
01:12:00,960 --> 01:12:03,480
Speaker 1: shifted his tactics. Now he is trying. He is specifically

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01:12:03,520 --> 01:12:05,960
Speaker 1: trying to get people to do a thing. He's not

1288
01:12:06,080 --> 01:12:08,360
Speaker 1: just trying to convince them of something. He's saying, Hey,

1289
01:12:08,520 --> 01:12:11,800
Speaker 1: I want you to write. I want you to write

1290
01:12:11,960 --> 01:12:15,200
Speaker 1: like a sermon. I've like or I've written a sermon. Um,

1291
01:12:15,320 --> 01:12:17,800
Speaker 1: I want you to UM, I want you to give

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01:12:17,880 --> 01:12:21,880
Speaker 1: this to your your If you do, you'll be entered

1293
01:12:21,920 --> 01:12:24,519
Speaker 1: into a lottery. And yeah, you can win money if

1294
01:12:24,560 --> 01:12:27,960
Speaker 1: you read this sermon. And like, if you could write

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01:12:28,000 --> 01:12:30,200
Speaker 1: a sermon, if it's the best sermon on the subject freedom,

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01:12:30,240 --> 01:12:32,000
Speaker 1: we could like, yeah, you could. You could call it

1297
01:12:32,080 --> 01:12:35,160
Speaker 1: the shameless manipulation of faith for corrupt and venal ins Um.

1298
01:12:35,280 --> 01:12:38,439
Speaker 1: But Fifield also is a true believer. Um, we have

1299
01:12:38,600 --> 01:12:41,080
Speaker 1: or at least I I I think, so we have

1300
01:12:41,200 --> 01:12:46,280
Speaker 1: the correspondence these guys wrote out um, and Fifield feels

1301
01:12:46,360 --> 01:12:49,960
Speaker 1: like he's being sincere in what he says. In he

1302
01:12:50,040 --> 01:12:52,720
Speaker 1: sent this letter to Crane about their next move. I

1303
01:12:52,800 --> 01:12:54,640
Speaker 1: am believing more and more that we will not win

1304
01:12:54,680 --> 01:12:57,200
Speaker 1: our fight for liberty by laying the principal emphasis on

1305
01:12:57,240 --> 01:13:00,639
Speaker 1: the material accomplishments of our American civilization. We must stress

1306
01:13:00,720 --> 01:13:03,800
Speaker 1: the spiritual and cultural accomplishments. The greater justice and the

1307
01:13:03,920 --> 01:13:06,920
Speaker 1: increase in the solution of social problems. The results of

1308
01:13:07,000 --> 01:13:10,519
Speaker 1: voluntary corporation should be set forth as against the dire

1309
01:13:10,600 --> 01:13:14,320
Speaker 1: consequences of compulsion. The argument is clinched by the amazing

1310
01:13:14,400 --> 01:13:17,479
Speaker 1: material wealth, the aesthetic enjoyments, and the greater opportunity for

1311
01:13:17,520 --> 01:13:20,760
Speaker 1: the pursuit of happiness. I think following this line of thought,

1312
01:13:20,880 --> 01:13:23,280
Speaker 1: we are in a stronger position to combat the attack

1313
01:13:23,360 --> 01:13:25,960
Speaker 1: of the collectivists. Do you see what he's saying there?

1314
01:13:27,120 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 1: I think if everybody has a microwave, there'll be a

1315
01:13:30,479 --> 01:13:34,639
Speaker 1: lot happier. Yeah. If everyone has a microwave and we say, hey,

1316
01:13:35,040 --> 01:13:39,920
Speaker 1: you have that microwave because of Christian libertarianism, because this

1317
01:13:40,560 --> 01:13:43,000
Speaker 1: like and if you, if you back, if you if

1318
01:13:43,040 --> 01:13:45,200
Speaker 1: you were to get healthcare, for example, maybe we don't

1319
01:13:45,240 --> 01:13:50,520
Speaker 1: get microwaves anymore. And celebrating the possession of that microwave

1320
01:13:50,800 --> 01:13:57,519
Speaker 1: is godliness. Let's let's remember Jesus's parable of the servants

1321
01:13:57,640 --> 01:14:01,160
Speaker 1: and the talents, you know, like a the master gave

1322
01:14:01,280 --> 01:14:05,320
Speaker 1: one servant one and said betted on this, and you

1323
01:14:05,479 --> 01:14:08,880
Speaker 1: might win a microwave. And then everybody you know didn't

1324
01:14:08,880 --> 01:14:12,200
Speaker 1: win a microwave. But that's what hope is. That's what

1325
01:14:12,360 --> 01:14:17,160
Speaker 1: hope is, that you might might a microwave. So yeah,

1326
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:19,880
Speaker 1: by the late nineteen forties, you can see all of

1327
01:14:19,960 --> 01:14:22,720
Speaker 1: the pieces for the what we've got going on now

1328
01:14:23,479 --> 01:14:25,360
Speaker 1: on the Christian right, Like you can see all of

1329
01:14:25,439 --> 01:14:28,360
Speaker 1: the pieces are there. They haven't quite been put together yet,

1330
01:14:28,680 --> 01:14:30,400
Speaker 1: but everything's in line. And when we come back in

1331
01:14:30,479 --> 01:14:32,360
Speaker 1: part two, we're going to talk about how five Field,

1332
01:14:32,400 --> 01:14:34,920
Speaker 1: Pew and the other plutocrats at in a m struck

1333
01:14:35,000 --> 01:14:37,880
Speaker 1: back at the collectivists like this is now they've built

1334
01:14:37,920 --> 01:14:39,840
Speaker 1: this machine and it is raring to go. But you

1335
01:14:39,880 --> 01:14:42,280
Speaker 1: know what else is raring to go before you get

1336
01:14:42,320 --> 01:14:47,720
Speaker 1: to that. Also, Hoover mostly was Pennsylvania. Sorry, I looked

1337
01:14:47,720 --> 01:14:49,240
Speaker 1: that up during one of the breaks, and I wanted

1338
01:14:49,280 --> 01:14:52,120
Speaker 1: to make sure people didn't tweet it. Okay, that's what

1339
01:14:52,400 --> 01:14:59,880
Speaker 1: that's that's what he won. Pennsylvania was most god damn

1340
01:15:00,600 --> 01:15:05,600
Speaker 1: at knowledge Underscore Fight. Don't tweet anything about Pennsylvania. Goddamnit.

1341
01:15:06,160 --> 01:15:10,519
Speaker 1: Just get out ahead of that fucking Hoover. Uh. Speaking

1342
01:15:10,640 --> 01:15:14,439
Speaker 1: of Herbert Hoover, he's a big fan of your podcast,

1343
01:15:14,560 --> 01:15:17,280
Speaker 1: Knowledge Fight, which people can find at knowledge fight dot

1344
01:15:17,320 --> 01:15:21,360
Speaker 1: com or wherever podcasts are in existence. Yeah, it's some

1345
01:15:21,479 --> 01:15:24,040
Speaker 1: of those places. Yeah, I've heard of that. We're not

1346
01:15:24,120 --> 01:15:26,160
Speaker 1: on some things though. We're not on a lot of

1347
01:15:26,240 --> 01:15:33,480
Speaker 1: things like Happiness not Scher. We're not on the impersonate

1348
01:15:33,640 --> 01:15:36,920
Speaker 1: Dan and Jordan's and downloading all of their episodes and

1349
01:15:37,080 --> 01:15:48,240
Speaker 1: upload them on Stitcher. Do it. It'll take um, all right,

1350
01:15:48,320 --> 01:15:50,320
Speaker 1: Dan Jordan, any other plugs you want to you want

1351
01:15:50,360 --> 01:15:52,880
Speaker 1: to throw out? No, I think we're good. You got

1352
01:15:52,960 --> 01:15:56,519
Speaker 1: a novel Jordan's, Oh I do. But that was that

1353
01:15:56,680 --> 01:15:59,160
Speaker 1: was a while back. People have been uninterested in that.

1354
01:16:00,640 --> 01:16:03,080
Speaker 1: I mean, you know, I'm working on another one. I'll

1355
01:16:03,120 --> 01:16:05,439
Speaker 1: tell people about that when it's done, all right, all right,

1356
01:16:05,560 --> 01:16:07,719
Speaker 1: Well that's gonna do it for us here at behind

1357
01:16:07,800 --> 01:16:11,479
Speaker 1: the Bastards, Um until Thursday when we'll come back and

1358
01:16:11,720 --> 01:16:15,360
Speaker 1: I'll make you guys sadder than you are right now. Hey,