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Speaker 1: I'm Laurie Gottlieb. I'm the author of Maybe You Should

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Speaker 1: Talk to Someone, and I write the Dear Therapist advice

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Speaker 1: column for the Atlantic.

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Speaker 2: And I'm Guy Wench. I'm the author of Emotional First Aid,

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Speaker 2: and I write the Dear Guy advice column for Ted.

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Speaker 2: And this is Dear Therapists. This week we're going to

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Speaker 2: check in on our guests from season two to hear

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Speaker 2: how they're doing a year later.

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Speaker 1: First, a quick note, Dear Therapist is for informational purposes only.

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Speaker 1: It does not constitute medical or psychological advice and is

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Speaker 1: not a substitute for professional healthcare advice, diagnosis, or treatment.

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Speaker 1: Always seek the advice of your physician, mental health professional,

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Speaker 1: or other qualified health provider with any questions you may

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Speaker 1: have regarding a medical or psychological condition. By submitting a letter,

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Speaker 1: you are agreeing to let iHeartMedia use it in part

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Speaker 1: orn full, and we may edit it for length and clarity.

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Speaker 1: In the sessions you'll hear, all names have been changed

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Speaker 1: for the privacy of our guests. So today we're catching

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Speaker 1: up with Doug and his episode was called Doug's Fear

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Speaker 1: of Intimacy and a year ago Doug was finally in

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Speaker 1: a healthy, loving relationship after the breakup of a long

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Speaker 1: term relationship that left a lot of emotional scars, and

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Speaker 1: we tried to help him to understand why intimacy was

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Speaker 1: so scary for him and how much his earlier romantic

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Speaker 1: relationship affected him, and how he could be vulnerable in

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Speaker 1: his current relationship in order to feel safe and cared for.

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Speaker 1: Here's what was going on with him back then.

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Speaker 3: I feel like I can be much more open and

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Speaker 3: honest with Lucas, and I feel like I have been.

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Speaker 3: There are definitely times when I get in my head

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Speaker 3: or I don't feel comfortable being super open about how

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Speaker 3: I'm feeling. He'll ask me, and I think that's kind

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Speaker 3: of where I struggle is. He'll ask me, and I'll

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Speaker 3: say everything's fine, and he'll ask me again, and I

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Speaker 3: can feel myself getting angry, even though he's not doing

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Speaker 3: it because he is OCD. I think I still have

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Speaker 3: those thoughts where if somebody asked me the same question

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Speaker 3: a couple of times, I just tense up.

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Speaker 2: Doug was also dealing with the fact that his parents

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Speaker 2: didn't want to acknowledge that he was gay, and so

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Speaker 2: this was another area where he couldn't express himself authentically.

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Speaker 1: You're listening to dear therapists for my Heart Radio. We'll

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Speaker 1: be back after a short break.

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Speaker 2: So now let's hear how things are going for Doug.

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Speaker 4: A year later, Hey, Guy and Laurie, A lot has

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Speaker 4: happened since I spoke with you last. I quit the

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Speaker 4: job that I hated, started grad school, and bought a house.

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Speaker 4: I feel like once I started finding my own voice,

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Speaker 4: I realized there was a lot in my life that

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Speaker 4: I kind of just let happen to me. For so long,

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Speaker 4: I was worried what others would think or say that

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Speaker 4: I let them decide what was best for me. Now

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Speaker 4: I am discovering what I want out of my own life.

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Speaker 4: Lucas and I are still together, and he has been

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Speaker 4: so supportive during all these changes. They were many times

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Speaker 4: when I was anxious and scared, but instead of holding

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Speaker 4: those inside and dealing with them alone, I allowed myself

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Speaker 4: to be open and vulnerable with him. It has been

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Speaker 4: incredibly freeing not having to bottle those feelings up and

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Speaker 4: trusting that Lucas is there for me in those moments.

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Speaker 4: Max's mom ended up passing away from pancreatic cancer shortly

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Speaker 4: after our session. And that was one of the hardest

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Speaker 4: moments of my life. It was difficult losing such an

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Speaker 4: important person to me. I've never cried so hard in

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Speaker 4: front of someone the way that I did in front

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Speaker 4: of Lucas. He held me and let me cry, and

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Speaker 4: I'm not sure I've ever felt so safe with someone

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Speaker 4: like I did then. I think because of that, it

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Speaker 4: has allowed me to be open about certain things in

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Speaker 4: our relationship that we needed to deal with. I remember

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Speaker 4: Laurie saying that in the past, I have been afraid

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Speaker 4: that bringing up issues will cause the relationship to break,

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Speaker 4: but in reality, not bringing up those issues is what

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Speaker 4: will cause the relationship to break. I have thought about

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Speaker 4: that many times when I've been scared to address things,

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Speaker 4: but it has motivated me to push through that anxiety

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Speaker 4: and to talk about it. And you were right, it

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Speaker 4: has only gotten easier the more that I've done it.

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Speaker 4: A few months after I sent that letter to my family,

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Speaker 4: I ended up spending some time with them in person.

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Speaker 4: At one point, my mom said, we want you to

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Speaker 4: be in a happy and loving relationship in the way

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Speaker 4: that God defines it. I felt really hurt by that,

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Speaker 4: and honestly I completely shut down, but As I thought

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Speaker 4: about it more, I decided I needed to stand up

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Speaker 4: for myself in person, not just in a letter. I

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Speaker 4: worked up the courage to address the comment with them

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Speaker 4: and shared how it felt to hear what they said.

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Speaker 4: I told them that they continued to disregard and ignore

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Speaker 4: or who I am, telling them that I am, and

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Speaker 4: that it's a part of me that will never go away.

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Speaker 4: I told them that I am proud of and love

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Speaker 4: who I am, and that it has taken me a

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Speaker 4: long time to be able to say that. I reminded

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Speaker 4: them of the letter and said that I cannot keep

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Speaker 4: having this conversation with them, that I meant what I

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Speaker 4: said about not continuing a relationship if they could not

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Speaker 4: stop saying such hurtful things. They were defensive at first,

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Speaker 4: but I really stuck to my guns and redirected the

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Speaker 4: conversation back to how I felt and what I expected

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Speaker 4: moving forward. They later came and apologized for what they

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Speaker 4: said and said they sometimes forget that I'm a thirty

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Speaker 4: two year old man and I am free to make my

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Speaker 4: own decisions. Something Guy pointed out was that I was

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Speaker 4: comfortable sharing how other people felt, but rarely was able

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Speaker 4: to speak to my own true feelings. I never realized

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Speaker 4: I did that until I listened back to the session

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Speaker 4: and heard how little I spoke of my feelings and

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Speaker 4: how limited my vocabulary of those feelings was. I've been

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Speaker 4: on quite the exploration since our session and had been

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Speaker 4: trying to be more in tune with who I am

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Speaker 4: and what I am feeling. Opening up to the two

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Speaker 4: of you was a huge first step towards finding myself.

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Speaker 4: I was ready to change, but felt so stuck and

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Speaker 4: didn't know where to start. I don't feel like the

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Speaker 4: same person I was a year ago, and I'm sure

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Speaker 4: a year from now, listening back to this, I'll feel

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Speaker 4: the same way again. I can't thank you enough for

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Speaker 4: having me on the show. I truly had a transformational

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Speaker 4: year because of it. Thank you take care well.

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Speaker 1: Doug said he had a truly transformational year, and he

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Speaker 1: truly did. We like to say as therapist that people

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Speaker 1: often change gradually then suddenly, So when people write to us,

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Speaker 1: they're typically wanting some change, and you can tell from

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Speaker 1: how they handle the homework who's actually ready, which is

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Speaker 1: different from wanting change, and who's not quite there. Doug

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Speaker 1: was clearly there even that first He really dived into

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Speaker 1: the homework, and he did some difficult things that moved

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Speaker 1: him really far outside of his comfort zone, like that

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Speaker 1: exercise we gave him with Lucas, and then also confronting

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Speaker 1: his family who refused to acknowledge that he's gay and

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Speaker 1: that he had a loving partner. So there were so

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Speaker 1: many changes. He quit his job, he started grad school,

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Speaker 1: he bought a house. So because he was ready, it's

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Speaker 1: not surprising that once the train had left the station,

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Speaker 1: it wasn't going to stop.

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Speaker 2: I'm smiling when you're saying that, because that's a little

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Speaker 2: bit the image I had listening to him, that it's

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Speaker 2: this freight train that just like I'm going forward now

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Speaker 2: and everyone better get out of the way kind of

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Speaker 2: thing in a good way. And I think that it

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Speaker 2: was amazing to hear, because yes, he said he found

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Speaker 2: his own voice, and he really has. In the session,

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Speaker 2: he confronted his family by writing an email to them,

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Speaker 2: and if I recall, it took them a while to

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Speaker 2: respond to it. But here he did it on the phone,

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Speaker 2: and not just he did it on the phone, he

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Speaker 2: did it in a much clearer way. I cannot be

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Speaker 2: in a relationship with you if you cannot accept who

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Speaker 2: I am if you don't respect my basic personhood. And

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Speaker 2: when they try and redirect, no, he brings them back

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Speaker 2: to it and insists again, that is truly assertive, that

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Speaker 2: is truly finding your own voice, insisting that if you

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Speaker 2: want to be in a relationship with me, if you

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Speaker 2: love me, then you have to accept me. That was

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Speaker 2: lovely to hear. And the other thing I really thought

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Speaker 2: was amazing to hear he remembered that I said that

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Speaker 2: he's been paying too much attention to other people's feelings

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Speaker 2: rather than his own, and here he was able to

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Speaker 2: when he was grieving, really pay attention to his own feelings,

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Speaker 2: lean on Lucas, get that embrace for him, be vulnerable

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Speaker 2: and sad with him, and as he said, feeling so

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Speaker 2: so safe with Lucas. That's him really prioritizing his feelings

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Speaker 2: and his needs are not worrying about how that will

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Speaker 2: come across to Lucas. That was great to hear too.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, he's really breaking these long standing patterns that he

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Speaker 1: had in all of his relationships with his parents, with

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Speaker 1: Matt the ex boyfriend, and learning how to do something

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Speaker 1: different with Lucas. I'm really glad he remembered that moment

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Speaker 1: in the session when he was really concerned that bringing

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Speaker 1: something up would cause relationships to break to end, and

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Speaker 1: we reminded him that talking about something will not cause

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Speaker 1: a relationship to break. It's not talking about something that

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Speaker 1: will cause a relationship to break. And if talking about

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Speaker 1: something does cause a relationship to break, that is not

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Speaker 1: the relationship that you want to be in.

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Speaker 2: And I want to just go back to what you

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Speaker 2: said about him being ready. This is what you see

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Speaker 2: when someone is ready, They will make changes in almost

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Speaker 2: every area of their lives. Because when you are changing

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Speaker 2: something internally, it should be reflected in all kinds of

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Speaker 2: areas of your life. And here he was quitting his job,

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Speaker 2: starting school, strengthening his relationship with his boyfriend, and trying

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Speaker 2: to change the relationship with his family into a much

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Speaker 2: healthier one, firing on all cylinders. And that's what's so

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Speaker 2: gratifying to see. When you're ready for change, it can

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Speaker 2: happen all around you.

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Speaker 1: Next week, we're checking in with Melissa, who had trouble

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Speaker 1: tolerating her children's emotions, to hear how she's doing one

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Speaker 1: year later.

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Speaker 5: I don't think I typically will respond with a lot

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Speaker 5: of empathy. I feel like almost a repulsion to the child,

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Speaker 5: like just get away from me, just go away, leave

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Speaker 5: me alone. I mean I get to the point where

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Speaker 5: I feel like I hate the child.

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Speaker 1: If you're enjoying our podcast, don't forget to subscribe for

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Speaker 1: help people to find the show.

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Speaker 2: If you have a dilemma you'd like to discuss with us,

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Speaker 2: email us at Laurie and Guy at iHeartMedia dot com.

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Speaker 2: Our executive producer is Noel Brown. We're produced and edited

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Speaker 2: by Josh Fisher, thistional editing support by Helena Rosen, John

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Speaker 2: Washington and Zachary Fisher. Our interns are Ben Bernstein, Emily

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Speaker 2: Gutierrez and Silver Lifton and special thanks to our podcast

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Speaker 2: fairy Godmother Katie Curic. We can't wait to see you

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Speaker 2: at our next session. Deotherapist is a production of iHeartRadio

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Speaker 5: Fisherfood