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Speaker 1: Welcome to the wire to Hunt podcast, your home for

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Speaker 1: deer hunting news, stories and strategies, and now your host,

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Speaker 1: Mark Kenyon. All right, welcome to the wire ton Podcast,

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Speaker 1: brought to you by on X. Today on the show,

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Speaker 1: I'm joined by my buddy Doug During he's a frequent

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Speaker 1: contributor to various Mediator podcasts and television episodes as well

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Speaker 1: as wildlife inhabitant management consultant out of the Driftless region

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Speaker 1: of Wisconsin, and he's also one of the experts we

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Speaker 1: brought out to the Back forty last fault to review

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Speaker 1: what we had there and to talk through different ideas

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Speaker 1: and to hunt the farm with me. So in our

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Speaker 1: conversation today, I want to cover a lot of topics

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Speaker 1: on those lines we're gonna discuss with Doug. You know,

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Speaker 1: how he came to his current conservation ethic, how he

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Speaker 1: attempts to balance hunting and ecosystem goals on any property

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Speaker 1: he works with, how to think about native and invasive

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Speaker 1: species management, is for improving the Back forty and a

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Speaker 1: bunch more like that. So so fascinating stuff. But we

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Speaker 1: also do spend some time in the beginning talking about

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Speaker 1: just just the current event of the moment, the global

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Speaker 1: COVID nineteen pandemic that's just sucked the oxygen out of

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Speaker 1: every room. Uh, it's all encompassing right now. None of

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Speaker 1: you guys listening are surprised by this, I know, because

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Speaker 1: it's it's everywhere. It's changed everything about our daily lives

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Speaker 1: right now. UM, I just didn't. I don't think there's

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Speaker 1: any way we could have the podcast this week without

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Speaker 1: at least addressing the elephant in the room a little bit.

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Speaker 1: So we're gonna touch on that. Uh, just kind of

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Speaker 1: share our thoughts and feelings right now, look at some

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Speaker 1: of the weird parallels between this situation and that surrounding

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Speaker 1: c w d Um. We even go into a little

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Speaker 1: bit about how all of this right now might impact

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Speaker 1: future conservation efforts. UH. So it's interesting stuff, but rest assured,

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Speaker 1: the majority of the show we're gonna talk about conservation

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Speaker 1: and wildlife management and habitat improvements and in philosophies around

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Speaker 1: working with the land. It's great stuff. I think you'll

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Speaker 1: enjoy it. I should take your mind off of some

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Speaker 1: of the negativity out there right now. And uh, and

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Speaker 1: I'm looking forward to you guys all giving me a

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Speaker 1: listen so that's the plan for today. No intro session

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Speaker 1: with Dan yet. I think he'll be with us next

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Speaker 1: week though, so tune in for that. So without further Ado,

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Speaker 1: let's get into it and get Dug During on the line.

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Speaker 1: All right, I got Doug During back with me on

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Speaker 1: the show. Doug, thanks for making the time to do this. Well,

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Speaker 1: this is uh great social distancing here and getting to

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Speaker 1: talk to you and both from the the the privacy

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Speaker 1: and safety of our own offices. I know it's becoming

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Speaker 1: the new normal for people all over the country right now,

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Speaker 1: is video conferences and skype chats and and all that.

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Speaker 1: But I was talking to Ben O'Brien yesterday that I've

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Speaker 1: been doing this. I've been self quarantine for six years,

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Speaker 1: sitting in my home office every day by myself. So

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Speaker 1: this isn't too different for me. Well, right, and the

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Speaker 1: same you know, I as you as you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm self employed and and uh so I have I

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Speaker 1: work from home, UM and most of my work is

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Speaker 1: um around the state in the Midwest, UM that I

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Speaker 1: traveled to. And then of course I have the farm nearby,

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Speaker 1: which you know, it's easy to self quarantine out there.

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Speaker 1: I'm just dealing with some Herford's and their calves, and

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Speaker 1: having seasons coming up, and living here in Casanovia, you know,

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Speaker 1: population three or five, it's pretty easy to social socially

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Speaker 1: distanced yourself. I got to tell you, Um, I was

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Speaker 1: contemplating what I wanted to do this week in the podcast,

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Speaker 1: and I had an original plan that I threw out

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Speaker 1: the window just because of current events. And I selfishly

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Speaker 1: I wanted to I wanted to have someone I could

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Speaker 1: talk to about what's going on right now, a little

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Speaker 1: bit that that had a little bit more wisdom than me,

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Speaker 1: And I jumped to you, I, so I want to

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Speaker 1: talk about the fun stuff. I want to talk about

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Speaker 1: the back forty and the time we spent together. I

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Speaker 1: want to talk about what's going on in the Durn

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Speaker 1: farm and spring habitat projects and conservation ideas and and

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Speaker 1: and news and all that kind of good stuff. But

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Speaker 1: I guess I don't think we can ignore, you know,

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Speaker 1: what's happening around us right now. As you said, social distancing, coronavirus,

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Speaker 1: the pandemic. I mean, life has changed over the last

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Speaker 1: week dramatically. Um. It's it's hard to escape, and part

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Speaker 1: of me wants this to be an escape, Like the

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Speaker 1: part of me wants the podcast to be an escape,

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Speaker 1: but I also kind of feel like it also, maybe

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Speaker 1: just selfishly for me, is a place to to to

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Speaker 1: release a little bit of the tension around it too

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Speaker 1: and talk about it. I don't know, how how are

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Speaker 1: you processing what's going on around us right now? How

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Speaker 1: are you feeling about things? UM? What's the doug during

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Speaker 1: wisdom that I need to hear right now? UM? Well,

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Speaker 1: not certainly not the panic, But to take this very seriously,

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Speaker 1: is is UM isn't the number one message I guess

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Speaker 1: if I've learned anything in UM sixty one years and

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Speaker 1: then working with with people like Brian Richards at the

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Speaker 1: U s g S Wildlife Health Center. UM, as I

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Speaker 1: think I told you, Mark, my daughter is completing her

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Speaker 1: master's in public health at Paul University and UM she's

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Speaker 1: studying UM Emergency Emergency Preparedness UM and that's her area

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Speaker 1: of that's her master's thesis, and it's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: stunning to me that that's going on. So as you

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Speaker 1: can imagine talking with her. I was on the phone

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Speaker 1: with her last night about what she's doing, and UM,

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Speaker 1: you know the biggest thing is that as you you,

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Speaker 1: being a relatively a new parent and now parents of

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Speaker 1: the second one, you realize that your life isn't as um.

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Speaker 1: Your individual life takes on a whole different meaning when

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Speaker 1: you start caring for you know, someone else. And I

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Speaker 1: can never describe what it has been like to be

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Speaker 1: a father to me, but it, um, it extends to

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Speaker 1: the whole idea of you know, it's not ours, it's

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Speaker 1: just our turn and caring for um the you know,

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Speaker 1: honoring the past and caring for the future. And if

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Speaker 1: there's anything that that points that out, it's this this

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Speaker 1: kind of situation. UM. I'm hearing from friends, UM, some

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Speaker 1: of them are you know, really frightened and um and

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Speaker 1: some of my siblings who my sister actually has a

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Speaker 1: master's in public health. And also so you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: hearing all parts of this, and I tend to, UM,

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Speaker 1: I want to I want to remember the kinds of

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Speaker 1: things like my friend Mitch Baker has said, and that

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Speaker 1: is I'd rather we did more than we I'd rather

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Speaker 1: we did everything that we could and find out we

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Speaker 1: did more than we had to than to find out

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Speaker 1: we didn't do enough. And so, you know, taking this

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Speaker 1: stuff seriously, is is you know it's really important at

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Speaker 1: the same time, um Man, I've been doing taking some

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Speaker 1: walks on the farm and I'm spending some time out there,

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Speaker 1: and my wife and I have been hiking together, and

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Speaker 1: um you know, it really does help you count the

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Speaker 1: most important things in life, I think a little more,

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Speaker 1: um carefully and um so I would say, you know,

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Speaker 1: there's a lesson there that you know what's important in

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Speaker 1: life and and and and those are the things that

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Speaker 1: I'm counting on these days. Is you know who's important

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Speaker 1: and what's important to me? Yeah, that's that's a great point.

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Speaker 1: And another thing that you just made me think of

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Speaker 1: two is just how how much we take for granted

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Speaker 1: here in this country, all the opportunities we have and

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Speaker 1: the things we can do, and the freedoms of of

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Speaker 1: of all sorts that we have as privileges here and

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Speaker 1: and now all of a sudden that's changing because of

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Speaker 1: this a lot of ways. And you very quickly realize,

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Speaker 1: oh wow, look what life's like when you don't have

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Speaker 1: these abilities, are these opportunities, or look how quickly things

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Speaker 1: can change. I mean it is I it's eye opening,

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Speaker 1: I think for a lot of folks, and it just

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Speaker 1: makes you that much more thankful for the things that

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Speaker 1: we do have, like you said, time with family. But

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Speaker 1: but the crazy thing is, I mean if we place

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Speaker 1: like France where they're banning family get togethers and they're

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Speaker 1: banning social gatherings of any kind, it's a little bit

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Speaker 1: concerning where this can go when you don't even when

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Speaker 1: you can't even connect with your support family groups or

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Speaker 1: friend groups to to deal with some of this stuff. Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I mean, like you said, you don't

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Speaker 1: want to panic, you don't want to worry too much.

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Speaker 1: You just want to follow the guidelines and do what's

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Speaker 1: best for the greater good. Uh. But it's certainly is

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Speaker 1: something we have take series, like you said. And and

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Speaker 1: then as as you are doing, I think the thing

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Speaker 1: I'm trying to do is is stay as positive as

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Speaker 1: you can and get outside, like that's one of those

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Speaker 1: places where you can still get out there and enjoy

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Speaker 1: mother nature, do some good work. Um, get your mind

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Speaker 1: off things. Probably the worst thing right now, and I

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Speaker 1: am bad right now. I'm I'm guilty of looking at

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Speaker 1: my phone a lot the last week. There's this constant

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Speaker 1: stream of news. It's probably the worst thing to do.

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Speaker 1: I've been trying to take my phone and like put

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Speaker 1: it in another room and leave it and say, right

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Speaker 1: from from five o'clock till nine o'clock, I'm not going

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Speaker 1: to look at the phone at all. It's because you

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Speaker 1: can get addicted to well, what's happening now? What's happening now? Um,

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Speaker 1: I don't know. I don't know if that's something you

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Speaker 1: ever have struggled with my wife. My wife would love

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Speaker 1: if she was listening in in this which she will

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Speaker 1: want it air. Um, she would say, yeah, when you

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Speaker 1: put that darn phone down, and uh, I am, I'm

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Speaker 1: I'm a slave to the darn thing and um, and

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Speaker 1: I need to change that because it it it'll bring

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Speaker 1: you down. Um. But then it goes back to that

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Speaker 1: balance of well, how do you be serious about this

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Speaker 1: if you don't know what's going on? Well, the truth

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Speaker 1: is you don't need to know what's going on every

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Speaker 1: minute or even every hour. Um, especially I mean, you know,

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Speaker 1: I've been to your home and you know I know

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Speaker 1: where you're at out there. It's not like you've got

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Speaker 1: you know, like me, you don't have a ton of

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Speaker 1: people going by your house and you're not out interacting

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Speaker 1: as a normal part of your day. Um, so you

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Speaker 1: really don't have to have, you know, up to up

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Speaker 1: to the minute information, but there really is a uh

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Speaker 1: it draws you to it. And and I mean I'm

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Speaker 1: just too much with the phone anyway, but uh, and

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Speaker 1: I do try to set it aside, especially when I'm

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Speaker 1: out at the farm. I mean, I'll take some photos

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Speaker 1: and stuff like that just to share what's going on

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Speaker 1: out there. But um, yeah, I I getting outside is

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Speaker 1: a big one, man, because I mean, is there a

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Speaker 1: safer place, Um, at least if you're outside and you're

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Speaker 1: not in the middle of a crowd. It's it's fantastic

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Speaker 1: being out and about. I mean, I had a great

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Speaker 1: time yesterday morning, Um, when I checked on the cattle

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Speaker 1: and just you know, and I was just it's the

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Speaker 1: farm is only a couple of miles here from from

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Speaker 1: where we live, and and I noticed some turkeys over

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Speaker 1: across the road. So I got out and walked over

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Speaker 1: across the road and I sat in the field for

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Speaker 1: a while and watched three toms strut or two toms strut,

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Speaker 1: and then the third one tried to join them, and man,

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Speaker 1: there was a butt kicking contest went off field and

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Speaker 1: I just felt it was one of those moments of wow,

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Speaker 1: spring is here, things are happening, it's their time. Um.

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Speaker 1: And then you know, I sat there for I don't know,

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Speaker 1: twenty minutes, half an hour or something. I watched the

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Speaker 1: whole thing go on, and then all of a sudden

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Speaker 1: I kind of snapped back to reality, like, oh, you've

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Speaker 1: got stuff to do, and you know, I went in

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Speaker 1: and grabbed my phone and there I am, like back

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Speaker 1: into it again. So, UM, perspective is awfully important and UM,

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Speaker 1: but I go back to you know, at the same time,

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Speaker 1: there's there's been nothing like this in in our lifetime

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Speaker 1: and hopefully there won't be again. Um. In terms of

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Speaker 1: its effect on us as humans, obviously there's some parallels

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Speaker 1: that I could draw to chronic wasting disease, and and yeah,

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Speaker 1: that's a that's a different area. But man, I I

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Speaker 1: don't know. One of the things I've liked about you

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Speaker 1: since I met you, and like when we were up

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Speaker 1: in Alaska together, is that I thought you and I

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Speaker 1: sort of connected on like the wow factor and and

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Speaker 1: and just the appreciation of where we were and what

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Speaker 1: was going on. And then as I've been reading your book, UM,

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Speaker 1: I just felt that that much more that well, this

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Speaker 1: is a guy who who gets it and you know

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Speaker 1: at your tender age. Um, I think yea, that's very

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Speaker 1: admirable that you've you've already made all those connections. A

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Speaker 1: lot of that stuff took me a while. Man. Uh,

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Speaker 1: definitely been blessed. Get to spend time in these places

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Speaker 1: that can have that kind of impact. Done you, that's

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Speaker 1: for sure. You mentioned something that I want to pry

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Speaker 1: into a little bit more though, um, not my tender age.

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Speaker 1: We all know I've got the baby face and the

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Speaker 1: young the whole thing going. But but you said that

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Speaker 1: there's some strange parallels to c w D and and

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Speaker 1: I've thought the same thing, just with a little bit

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Speaker 1: of the social side of what we're seeing with the coronavirus,

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Speaker 1: as as the news about it continue to spread and

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Speaker 1: more and people, more and more people were talking about

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Speaker 1: and we were starting to get guidelines of what what

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Speaker 1: you should do and what the government was um recommending

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Speaker 1: or or mandating because of this, and you're seeing new

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Speaker 1: regulations coming out, etcetera, etcetera. And then you started seeing

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Speaker 1: the conspiracy theories and you started seeing people saying, oh,

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Speaker 1: this government overreach or this is just one political party

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Speaker 1: trying to destroy the other political party, or this is

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Speaker 1: just the crooked media trying to cause a hysteria. UM.

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Speaker 1: It was like if you just swapped out Corona for

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Speaker 1: c w D, you could have never known. We're talking

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Speaker 1: about a different thing here. I mean, very similar ways

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Speaker 1: that some people are reacting to this. Um. It sounds

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Speaker 1: like you've noticed the same thing. Yeah, really very much so,

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Speaker 1: man I. One of the one of the first things

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Speaker 1: that struck me was looking at the UH graphs that

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Speaker 1: showed the growth in different UM different countries and UH

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Speaker 1: and the countries that did a better job I want

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Speaker 1: to say Singapore and then um Or City and then

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Speaker 1: Hong Kong countries and cities anyway that they how they

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Speaker 1: flattened out that curve by taking some decisive action. And

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Speaker 1: in like Italy. UM, I don't have it right in

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Speaker 1: front of me, but Italy is one that really sticks

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Speaker 1: in my head. Uh, my mind. And China, how these

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Speaker 1: curves you know, just sky rocketed, UM just almost you know,

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Speaker 1: a vertical growth and some of it was and mostly

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Speaker 1: it's because of a lack of action and a lack

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Speaker 1: of preparedness. UM. And yeah, and I agree there's a

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Speaker 1: certain level of UH denial or or you know, let's

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Speaker 1: not call it denial at this point. It's called skepticism.

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Speaker 1: And I think it's fine to be skeptical of things

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Speaker 1: that you're being told by UM, certainly by politicians UM.

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Speaker 1: But I'm not so sure that it's it's real healthy

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Speaker 1: or smart to be skeptical of of things that scientists

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Speaker 1: who who are who have good reputations, UM, you know,

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Speaker 1: like the Center for Disease Control or the World Health Organization.

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Speaker 1: And in both cases, um W h O and CDC

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Speaker 1: both have made comments about both about both c w

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Speaker 1: D and UM and coronavirus or COVID nineteen and UH

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Speaker 1: and and they're very similar, right, so that that's one

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Speaker 1: of the things. And yes, UM, I understand that there

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Speaker 1: are some economic issues with with this current crisis that

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Speaker 1: we have, and I understand that there are some economic

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Speaker 1: concerns with c w D, But I don't know that

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Speaker 1: that should be driving our short or long term look

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Speaker 1: at UM and reaction to either one of them. But

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Speaker 1: it seems like it has. I keep wondering, quite honestly,

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Speaker 1: when somebody's going to go in there might be somebody

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Speaker 1: from Michigan. Um, let everybody figure this out on their own.

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Speaker 1: Gonna are gonna go in front of Congress and say,

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Speaker 1: you know, human beings, uh want to naturally gather, so

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Speaker 1: it really doesn't make any sense to try to prevent them. Um,

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Speaker 1: because yeah, I mean, it's just it's come on, you know,

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Speaker 1: we can we can do things about unnatural gathering, both

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Speaker 1: in dear and human beings. We're doing it with human

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Speaker 1: beings right now. And obviously dear don't think the same

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Speaker 1: way that humans do, but we can take actions, and um,

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Speaker 1: it's just a real interesting Uh, the parallels are interesting,

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Speaker 1: and you know what kind of frightening. The other thing

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Speaker 1: I would say about that is, um, you know, I'm

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Speaker 1: not the sharpest knife in the drawer, but I'm not

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Speaker 1: the dullest one either, you know. Um, one of the

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Speaker 1: solidly in the middle. Maybe maybe slightly above average is

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Speaker 1: what i'd really you know. I mean, if I've got

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Speaker 1: an ego, it's it's that it's gonna be I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: be at least slightly above average, but you're cutting more

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Speaker 1: than butter. Yeah. A long time ago, Um, one of

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Speaker 1: the smartest people I've ever met. He was a professor

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Speaker 1: of mine in college. And he was just this really

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Speaker 1: brilliant guy who could break stuff down in a way that,

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Speaker 1: um that anybody could understand it. And that was a

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Speaker 1: part of his brilliance, right. And I was a return

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Speaker 1: eLearning student. I was like twenty three when I went

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Speaker 1: back to finish my degree. And uh uh, I was

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Speaker 1: very very serious student at that point, not nearly as

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Speaker 1: much more serious than I was the first two years

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Speaker 1: of school. But anyway, Um, I was really frustrated with

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Speaker 1: myself for sort of having missed out on a bunch

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Speaker 1: of things and a lack of knowledge about this or that.

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Speaker 1: And I was just like voraciously reading things and really

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Speaker 1: trying to become a wealth of knowledge. And Jeff Peril, Dr.

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Speaker 1: Jeff Peril was his name, and he said, Uh, Doug,

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Speaker 1: don't be so hard on yourself. You don't have to

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Speaker 1: know everything. You don't have to be an expert at

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Speaker 1: all these different things. What you do, I want to

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Speaker 1: think about, is how you interact with people who are

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Speaker 1: experts in a particular field. Learn how to find that information,

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Speaker 1: Learn how to seek those people out and pay attention

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Speaker 1: to what it is that they say, um, and be

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Speaker 1: skeptical about it and ask questions. So you know that

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Speaker 1: idea that you don't have to be the to know everything.

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Speaker 1: Just knowing how to find things out is extremely important.

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Speaker 1: And it's a lesson that man. Yeah, I learned it

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Speaker 1: at age twenty three, and I think I've done pretty

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Speaker 1: well with that. So when I get into a situation

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Speaker 1: like this, or something like this happens, be it chronic

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Speaker 1: wasting disease COVID nineteen, UM, I don't know. There's some

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Speaker 1: other things in life too. Um I it's like, okay,

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Speaker 1: who's an expert? Who are experts in this these fields?

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Speaker 1: And what? You know? Who should I be listening to here?

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Speaker 1: Should I be listening to the guy at the bar

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Speaker 1: or should I be listening to the research scientists? Should

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Speaker 1: I be listening to um? Uh? Should I be listening

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Speaker 1: to someone who has an economic concern in it? Or

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Speaker 1: someone who has a long term concern about the resource

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Speaker 1: or about humanity? Um someone who's worried about being, you know,

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Speaker 1: about an election, or someone who's most you know, concerns.

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Speaker 1: So you have to learn how to sort of sort

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Speaker 1: through those kinds of things. And I guess if I

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Speaker 1: have one um skill that I've developed over time, it's

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Speaker 1: the ability to be able to to to you know,

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Speaker 1: look at you know, what the what the what the

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Speaker 1: research shows and what the smart people are saying, and

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Speaker 1: then decide who the smart people are and put my

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Speaker 1: stuff aside. Yes, it's so. So it's an increasingly important

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Speaker 1: skill to have what you just described there in today's world,

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Speaker 1: just because I feel like the the word or the

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Speaker 1: idea of truth has become i'd say sadly so, it's

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Speaker 1: become subjective. People are are are claiming their own truths,

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Speaker 1: and they're creating alternate truth or alternate facts or fake news.

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Speaker 1: Is all this stuff. Nobody knows what to trust or

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Speaker 1: who to trust anymore. Nobody knows what's real um or

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Speaker 1: it's hard to discern um. Everyone is pointing fingers that

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Speaker 1: this thing or that thing is biased or whatever it

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Speaker 1: might be. So it's it's really something I think that

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Speaker 1: people need to take seriously these days, whether it's with

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Speaker 1: this or c w D or or whatever. You need

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Speaker 1: to do exactly what you described. You need to go

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Speaker 1: to the experts. You need to be able to discern

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Speaker 1: who has this real expertise, making sure you understand the

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Speaker 1: incentives of the various people you see talking about these

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Speaker 1: things and understanding. Okay, is this someone who's biased or

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Speaker 1: incentivized to to kind of skew this thing one way

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Speaker 1: or another, or is this coming from, like you said,

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Speaker 1: a resource or truth perspective or an expert perspective. Um. Yeah,

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Speaker 1: I mean that's why, like you just said, I'm not

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Speaker 1: getting my information about COVID nineteen from Facebook or Twitter

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Speaker 1: or from politicians Twitter accounts or anything that I'm gonna

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Speaker 1: see what the CDC says. Let's see what the who says. Um.

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Speaker 1: When you when you have the top doctors and scientists

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Speaker 1: in the world standing up there telling you at prime time, Hey,

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Speaker 1: this is something you have to take seriously. Now you know,

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Speaker 1: I'm gonna listen. So yeah, yeah. Agenda is one of

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Speaker 1: those you know, what is this person's you know, what

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Speaker 1: what is their agenda or what is there possible agenda?

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Speaker 1: And the other thing the same dude that I was

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Speaker 1: telling you about, Dr Peril um uh said to me, Uh,

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Speaker 1: we were talking about some part of history and you know,

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Speaker 1: in class or whatever. Because by the way, I have

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Speaker 1: taught high school history for a number of years and

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Speaker 1: one of the things that I hope that my students,

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Speaker 1: former students would remember is that One of the things

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Speaker 1: I talked about at the beginning of every semester was

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Speaker 1: this is everyone has a perspective, even if we're talking

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Speaker 1: about there are very few things in life, even if

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Speaker 1: we're talking about a fact two plus two equals for okay,

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Speaker 1: but we can you know, mess with that from a perspective. Also,

404
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Speaker 1: but people teach history from a perspective. Everybody has a perspective.

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Speaker 1: So what I was hoping that they were learning from

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Speaker 1: that that conversation was to be a skeptical of what

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Speaker 1: I say too, um or at least be able to

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Speaker 1: think for themselves about it. Um by taking in all

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Speaker 1: this information, you know what is so what is that

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Speaker 1: person's agenda? What is their perspective? You know, our our

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Speaker 1: mutual friend, uh Steve Ronella and I were talking about

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Speaker 1: deer one time and like too many deer and I

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Speaker 1: was like, you know what, we have too many deer?

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Speaker 1: And he goes, well, from whose perspective? It's like, huh yeah,

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Speaker 1: well from my perspective, based on you know, animal health.

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Speaker 1: But also that I was um and continue to try

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Speaker 1: to regenerate oaks and I'm trying to um, you don't

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Speaker 1: have a balanced ecosystem. I mean, our property isn't just

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Speaker 1: about deer, it's about all of these other things. So

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Speaker 1: you know, I don't want to be overrun with them

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Speaker 1: and all those sort of things. He goes, yeah, man,

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Speaker 1: but what about someone who buys a property or who's

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Speaker 1: that's what all they're interested in? Um, you know, that's

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Speaker 1: their perspective. My response to that, which wasn't very well

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Speaker 1: thought out at the time, but you know, over time

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Speaker 1: it's it's one of those conversations that I revisit in

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Speaker 1: my in my mind and um, it's like, well, okay, yeah,

428
00:24:13,000 --> 00:24:15,639
Speaker 1: I get that people have that perspective. But if we're

429
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:21,040
Speaker 1: doing our job as you know, conservationists or thinking people,

430
00:24:21,720 --> 00:24:24,320
Speaker 1: whatever the subject might be, you know, we're gonna have

431
00:24:24,440 --> 00:24:26,639
Speaker 1: hopefully be able to have a conversation with them to

432
00:24:26,680 --> 00:24:30,040
Speaker 1: help them sort of see a bigger picture. It's still

433
00:24:30,080 --> 00:24:33,639
Speaker 1: their picture, right, it's still their perspective, but maybe we

434
00:24:33,680 --> 00:24:36,000
Speaker 1: can help widen their perspective a little bit. I mean,

435
00:24:36,000 --> 00:24:38,240
Speaker 1: I don't want people to necessarily think like me. I've

436
00:24:38,240 --> 00:24:41,119
Speaker 1: always been fairly confident about, even when I was a teacher,

437
00:24:41,720 --> 00:24:45,080
Speaker 1: that if I if I encourage people to think and

438
00:24:45,119 --> 00:24:47,760
Speaker 1: look at evidence and facts that they're gonna come around to.

439
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:54,320
Speaker 1: UM at least a thought process that's gonna be interested.

440
00:24:54,359 --> 00:24:57,119
Speaker 1: You know, it's gonna at least line up with these

441
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:02,240
Speaker 1: well reason and insightful ideas. But but you know that

442
00:25:02,240 --> 00:25:05,199
Speaker 1: that idea that UM and then and then having the

443
00:25:05,280 --> 00:25:08,840
Speaker 1: ability to change your mind. Another mutual friend of ours,

444
00:25:08,840 --> 00:25:11,440
Speaker 1: Pat Durkin, UM and I were just talking the other

445
00:25:11,520 --> 00:25:15,120
Speaker 1: day and he said that, UM, I hope that more

446
00:25:15,160 --> 00:25:20,000
Speaker 1: people will change their mind about management and chronic wasting disease.

447
00:25:21,000 --> 00:25:23,560
Speaker 1: And UM, I was like, I don't see this that hard.

448
00:25:23,560 --> 00:25:26,800
Speaker 1: He goes, but it is hard, it is very hard,

449
00:25:26,840 --> 00:25:29,960
Speaker 1: and you've I don't. He says, I'm not quite sure

450
00:25:30,080 --> 00:25:32,520
Speaker 1: how you switched your mind, how you changed your mind

451
00:25:32,600 --> 00:25:36,240
Speaker 1: so quickly. And I just because I went from you know,

452
00:25:36,320 --> 00:25:39,560
Speaker 1: sombrero and buck management and let him go, let him grow.

453
00:25:39,600 --> 00:25:41,399
Speaker 1: And we were doing all those sort of things, and

454
00:25:41,400 --> 00:25:44,000
Speaker 1: then the science was staring me in the face and

455
00:25:44,080 --> 00:25:46,560
Speaker 1: c w D was knocking on our door. And I

456
00:25:46,560 --> 00:25:50,120
Speaker 1: wrote an article but it was on the mediator dot com,

457
00:25:50,320 --> 00:25:54,800
Speaker 1: UM about if I'm calling myself a conservationist and where

458
00:25:54,880 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: I am in this geographic spread of this disease, And UM, philosophically,

459
00:26:02,000 --> 00:26:05,199
Speaker 1: I need to make this change. And I kind of

460
00:26:05,240 --> 00:26:11,400
Speaker 1: made that change overnight. Um, you know, sort of made

461
00:26:11,400 --> 00:26:13,160
Speaker 1: it overnight over the course of a couple of years,

462
00:26:13,200 --> 00:26:14,800
Speaker 1: but I could see that that was, you know, like

463
00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:18,520
Speaker 1: letting nubbucks go and and you know, having these restrictions

464
00:26:18,560 --> 00:26:20,280
Speaker 1: on people and what they could shoot and what they

465
00:26:20,320 --> 00:26:22,239
Speaker 1: couldn't and all that on our farm. I'm just like,

466
00:26:23,359 --> 00:26:26,159
Speaker 1: this doesn't make sense from a science standpoint. And quite honestly,

467
00:26:26,200 --> 00:26:28,639
Speaker 1: with a number of people I have hunting on the farm,

468
00:26:28,680 --> 00:26:32,040
Speaker 1: I just, um, I just got tired of managing people too.

469
00:26:32,240 --> 00:26:35,520
Speaker 1: So anyway, all those things, you know, enter into those

470
00:26:35,600 --> 00:26:38,679
Speaker 1: kinds of thought processes. Wow, there was a strain of

471
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,160
Speaker 1: stream of consciousness. I think you you made a lot

472
00:26:43,160 --> 00:26:46,520
Speaker 1: of good points so and I especially like the one

473
00:26:46,520 --> 00:26:48,440
Speaker 1: of these ideas that you brought up is something I've

474
00:26:48,440 --> 00:26:53,119
Speaker 1: always thought about. I think a really good quality for

475
00:26:53,200 --> 00:26:55,560
Speaker 1: someone to have, an important quality that I try to

476
00:26:55,600 --> 00:26:59,400
Speaker 1: foster myself, is the ability to admit that I don't

477
00:26:59,520 --> 00:27:02,560
Speaker 1: know at all and that I might be wrong, and

478
00:27:02,560 --> 00:27:07,080
Speaker 1: that I try to remain open to those possibilities as

479
00:27:07,160 --> 00:27:10,480
Speaker 1: much as possible and seek out and be curious and

480
00:27:10,480 --> 00:27:13,840
Speaker 1: and and and looking for ways to plug those gaps

481
00:27:13,840 --> 00:27:16,520
Speaker 1: in my knowledge or to convinced me that I might

482
00:27:16,520 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 1: be wrong with something. I want to read something or

483
00:27:18,640 --> 00:27:21,320
Speaker 1: hear from someone who has a different perspective, UM, because

484
00:27:21,320 --> 00:27:23,399
Speaker 1: I'd like to try to shore up those shortcomings as

485
00:27:23,480 --> 00:27:26,080
Speaker 1: much as possible. That's it's something I'm trying to always

486
00:27:26,119 --> 00:27:29,240
Speaker 1: get better at. And I feel like you spoke to

487
00:27:29,280 --> 00:27:31,160
Speaker 1: a lot of that there. When it comes to understanding,

488
00:27:31,200 --> 00:27:34,440
Speaker 1: everyone's got a different perspective. But also that can mean

489
00:27:34,480 --> 00:27:38,560
Speaker 1: that your perspective. You know, sometimes we are looking through

490
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,439
Speaker 1: a tiny straw instead of through the great, big wide

491
00:27:42,040 --> 00:27:45,480
Speaker 1: uh telescope that we maybe should be or the microscope

492
00:27:45,560 --> 00:27:47,560
Speaker 1: that we should be. So I gotta remember that we've

493
00:27:47,560 --> 00:27:51,439
Speaker 1: got these different lenses that we're peering at the world at. Um.

494
00:27:51,520 --> 00:27:53,440
Speaker 1: I want to shift. I want to shift. I want

495
00:27:53,440 --> 00:27:55,200
Speaker 1: to make a shift to something you're just talking about.

496
00:27:55,200 --> 00:27:57,960
Speaker 1: But before that, I've got one last question on the

497
00:27:58,000 --> 00:28:02,560
Speaker 1: current event topic. With the novel coronavirus going on, do

498
00:28:02,600 --> 00:28:06,880
Speaker 1: you see any implications of this whole thing on hunting

499
00:28:07,080 --> 00:28:12,320
Speaker 1: or conservation in the short or long term. Um, there's

500
00:28:12,320 --> 00:28:16,639
Speaker 1: probably not direct, uh you know, implications, but I'm imagining

501
00:28:16,680 --> 00:28:19,960
Speaker 1: some possible things that could happen. I'm curious if you

502
00:28:20,040 --> 00:28:23,080
Speaker 1: thought about that at all. Well, I can tell you

503
00:28:23,080 --> 00:28:29,119
Speaker 1: one impact on Monday today is a Tuesday, right. Um,

504
00:28:29,200 --> 00:28:30,840
Speaker 1: that's the other thing that happens to use the track

505
00:28:30,920 --> 00:28:34,800
Speaker 1: of days when stuff like this is going on. Um, yesterday, Uh,

506
00:28:34,920 --> 00:28:37,119
Speaker 1: some folks from Vortex were supposed to come out, Vortex

507
00:28:37,160 --> 00:28:41,040
Speaker 1: Optics were supposed to come out and uh for the

508
00:28:41,120 --> 00:28:45,960
Speaker 1: express purpose of, UM, we're gonna do uh I learned

509
00:28:46,000 --> 00:28:50,320
Speaker 1: to hunt turkey hunt um project on our on the fire. Um,

510
00:28:50,360 --> 00:28:53,840
Speaker 1: there's five people at Vortex who were going to come

511
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:57,400
Speaker 1: out and take out new hunters. And a couple of

512
00:28:57,400 --> 00:28:59,720
Speaker 1: them are going to come out, and you know they

513
00:29:01,200 --> 00:29:03,120
Speaker 1: and they were gonna come out and we're just gonna

514
00:29:03,120 --> 00:29:05,480
Speaker 1: start like getting it together. You know. It's gonna help

515
00:29:05,520 --> 00:29:07,800
Speaker 1: them kind of understand how to turkey ount the farm.

516
00:29:07,800 --> 00:29:09,480
Speaker 1: And since they're taking new hunters, they would just take

517
00:29:09,520 --> 00:29:12,240
Speaker 1: them to a spot right and not run and gun,

518
00:29:12,240 --> 00:29:14,360
Speaker 1: which is kind of my favorite way of turkey hunting.

519
00:29:14,400 --> 00:29:16,280
Speaker 1: After the first couple of hours in the morning, anyway,

520
00:29:16,920 --> 00:29:19,920
Speaker 1: UM saw we're down there, got ahold of me and

521
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:24,920
Speaker 1: and said, hey man, we're we're not gonna be able

522
00:29:24,960 --> 00:29:26,920
Speaker 1: to come up and I was like, oh, well, you know,

523
00:29:26,960 --> 00:29:30,080
Speaker 1: I get it, and we don't even know, um, how

524
00:29:30,120 --> 00:29:32,000
Speaker 1: this is all going to work out, because all of

525
00:29:32,080 --> 00:29:35,320
Speaker 1: a sudden, when they're gathering, there's ten of them, right

526
00:29:35,400 --> 00:29:37,400
Speaker 1: and then me, and you know, it's sort of now

527
00:29:37,440 --> 00:29:39,240
Speaker 1: you've got a group of people together who are coming

528
00:29:39,280 --> 00:29:42,200
Speaker 1: from a bunch of different places. So that's gonna you know,

529
00:29:42,200 --> 00:29:44,800
Speaker 1: in the short term, we're we're just decided, okay, let's

530
00:29:44,800 --> 00:29:46,440
Speaker 1: give it a couple of days and think about how

531
00:29:46,480 --> 00:29:52,920
Speaker 1: we might best proceed. Um. Also coming up, our our

532
00:29:53,000 --> 00:29:57,760
Speaker 1: County Deer Advisory Council meetings, which are scheduled to happen

533
00:29:57,880 --> 00:30:00,600
Speaker 1: between now and in the middle of April, have been

534
00:30:00,840 --> 00:30:04,800
Speaker 1: um postponed. And uh, I don't know if you know

535
00:30:04,840 --> 00:30:06,720
Speaker 1: what our seed decks are, but um, it's sorta of

536
00:30:06,840 --> 00:30:09,400
Speaker 1: unique and it is actually something that really positive came

537
00:30:09,440 --> 00:30:11,240
Speaker 1: out of some of the political stuff that was a

538
00:30:11,240 --> 00:30:13,120
Speaker 1: part of our whole c w D thing, and that

539
00:30:13,320 --> 00:30:16,000
Speaker 1: is that we have these advisory councils in each county

540
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,480
Speaker 1: and I happen to be on the rich Old County

541
00:30:17,480 --> 00:30:21,040
Speaker 1: where our farm is located, advisory council and to the the

542
00:30:21,120 --> 00:30:24,080
Speaker 1: stakeholder meeting, and we work with the biologists for the

543
00:30:24,160 --> 00:30:27,280
Speaker 1: area and um you know who provides us with information.

544
00:30:27,360 --> 00:30:30,600
Speaker 1: We take input from the hunting community and and and

545
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,760
Speaker 1: the community at large about goals and objectives for deer hunting.

546
00:30:34,760 --> 00:30:38,680
Speaker 1: And that's how we set quotas and some other limited

547
00:30:38,840 --> 00:30:41,080
Speaker 1: tools and use some other limited tools that we have

548
00:30:41,240 --> 00:30:44,320
Speaker 1: for for hunting. Well those have been called off UM

549
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:47,720
Speaker 1: And thankfully a lot of that information is online and

550
00:30:47,960 --> 00:30:50,680
Speaker 1: people actually put a lot of their input in online.

551
00:30:50,760 --> 00:30:54,400
Speaker 1: So if you're in Wisconsin and you're wondering what's happening

552
00:30:54,400 --> 00:30:56,959
Speaker 1: with the seed AC meetings, you can go to Wisconsin

553
00:30:57,080 --> 00:31:01,920
Speaker 1: dnrum search seed AC and you can UH input into

554
00:31:01,920 --> 00:31:05,040
Speaker 1: each county where you hunt. At least you should just

555
00:31:05,080 --> 00:31:07,480
Speaker 1: where you hunt, um you know, what your thoughts are

556
00:31:07,480 --> 00:31:09,640
Speaker 1: on last season and that sort of thing. Then the

557
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,520
Speaker 1: other one is we also have a fairly unique um

558
00:31:13,240 --> 00:31:19,120
Speaker 1: UH process here in Wisconsin called the Wisconsin Conservation Congress, which,

559
00:31:19,120 --> 00:31:24,200
Speaker 1: if I'm not mistaken, was started by Leopold um And

560
00:31:24,320 --> 00:31:28,160
Speaker 1: that is a yearly meeting that anyone can attend. All

561
00:31:28,200 --> 00:31:32,200
Speaker 1: happens on the same day and it's in April. Um

562
00:31:32,400 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 1: and and I have not heard whether those are canceled yet,

563
00:31:35,640 --> 00:31:38,880
Speaker 1: but I'm sure there's there being postponed because they can

564
00:31:38,920 --> 00:31:41,640
Speaker 1: be really big gatherings and there's a number of questions

565
00:31:41,720 --> 00:31:46,360
Speaker 1: about conservation in the state, and they're generally advisory questions,

566
00:31:46,400 --> 00:31:50,280
Speaker 1: and it's everything from you know, uh, fish limits in

567
00:31:50,320 --> 00:31:56,080
Speaker 1: particular lakes to um length of season for various things,

568
00:31:56,120 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: and and then just sort of some general statements as well,

569
00:31:59,040 --> 00:32:05,040
Speaker 1: and and uh things. There's I mean, there's usually sixty

570
00:32:05,080 --> 00:32:08,200
Speaker 1: five or seventy questions um and but that's a live

571
00:32:08,280 --> 00:32:10,840
Speaker 1: meeting that everyone goes to and as far as I know,

572
00:32:10,920 --> 00:32:13,640
Speaker 1: those have been postponed as well. And if they haven't been,

573
00:32:13,960 --> 00:32:15,600
Speaker 1: you know, I'm sure they haven't seen it. I'm not

574
00:32:15,640 --> 00:32:18,040
Speaker 1: on an email list for that necessarily, so I haven't seen.

575
00:32:18,200 --> 00:32:21,400
Speaker 1: But those are short term implications that stuff is. You know,

576
00:32:21,520 --> 00:32:25,280
Speaker 1: those are three examples of how this is affecting us. Yeah. Yeah,

577
00:32:25,360 --> 00:32:28,360
Speaker 1: I feel like there's just gonna be this is just

578
00:32:28,440 --> 00:32:31,640
Speaker 1: one of those events that's going to impact everything. I

579
00:32:31,680 --> 00:32:34,120
Speaker 1: think everything is impacted. But on this front, I was,

580
00:32:34,200 --> 00:32:36,680
Speaker 1: as I was thinking about this this morning, I gotta

581
00:32:36,720 --> 00:32:39,520
Speaker 1: believe there's a lot of little archery shops or little

582
00:32:39,520 --> 00:32:42,520
Speaker 1: fly fishing shops or outdoors stores that are gonna be

583
00:32:42,520 --> 00:32:45,760
Speaker 1: suffering significantly as more and more places are getting shut down.

584
00:32:45,800 --> 00:32:49,320
Speaker 1: People aren't traveling, people aren't going on hunting and fishing trips.

585
00:32:49,360 --> 00:32:52,840
Speaker 1: Maybe people maybe are worried about taking in their bow

586
00:32:52,880 --> 00:32:55,840
Speaker 1: and having someone working on their stuff. I gotta believe

587
00:32:55,880 --> 00:32:59,360
Speaker 1: those things could impact folks. I know that a lot

588
00:32:59,360 --> 00:33:04,200
Speaker 1: of conservation groups are canceling their banquets and their various

589
00:33:04,240 --> 00:33:06,920
Speaker 1: get togethers and meetings that are really important for funding.

590
00:33:07,480 --> 00:33:10,240
Speaker 1: So like places like Rocky Mountain Elk Foundation or Ducks

591
00:33:10,320 --> 00:33:13,280
Speaker 1: Unlimited or Quality Deer Management Association, I bet they're gonna

592
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:15,600
Speaker 1: take a big financial hit because of those things having

593
00:33:15,600 --> 00:33:20,080
Speaker 1: to be canceled. Um. I'm worried about some good legislation

594
00:33:20,240 --> 00:33:23,120
Speaker 1: out there that's good for conservation in public lands, like

595
00:33:23,160 --> 00:33:26,120
Speaker 1: this Great American Outdoors Act that just got introduced a

596
00:33:26,120 --> 00:33:28,600
Speaker 1: little over a week ago, and there's all this excitement

597
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:32,480
Speaker 1: and energy around it and all this bipartisan support, and

598
00:33:32,520 --> 00:33:34,960
Speaker 1: now all of a sudden, like there's gonna be zero

599
00:33:34,960 --> 00:33:38,560
Speaker 1: attention paid to that for who knows how long, and

600
00:33:39,680 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: will we be able to have the funding that was promised.

601
00:33:43,760 --> 00:33:47,080
Speaker 1: Like there's this idea of dedicating something nine million dollars

602
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,360
Speaker 1: a year to the Land and Water Conservation Fund, that's

603
00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:53,000
Speaker 1: what's proposed, would be amazing. Um. But after all these

604
00:33:53,080 --> 00:33:57,440
Speaker 1: massive stimulus packages that are being put out to deal

605
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,360
Speaker 1: with COVID nineteen, which seems like we have to do,

606
00:34:01,160 --> 00:34:02,880
Speaker 1: are we going to have the stomach and the funds

607
00:34:02,960 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 1: to to sign off on these conservation measures? Um? I

608
00:34:06,400 --> 00:34:08,600
Speaker 1: sure hope so, but I'm I'm a little more nervous

609
00:34:08,640 --> 00:34:11,719
Speaker 1: now about what what we're gonna be able to do

610
00:34:11,760 --> 00:34:15,239
Speaker 1: on that front when all this clears up. Um. Oh yeah,

611
00:34:15,320 --> 00:34:18,200
Speaker 1: I mean, so there's that that one. The first thing

612
00:34:18,239 --> 00:34:21,640
Speaker 1: that happens is the focus changes, right. Um. So the

613
00:34:21,640 --> 00:34:24,880
Speaker 1: focus goes from sort of the day to day workings

614
00:34:24,880 --> 00:34:28,000
Speaker 1: of government and the momentum that you know, folks like B. H.

615
00:34:28,080 --> 00:34:30,480
Speaker 1: A and and and and everyone else has been working

616
00:34:30,520 --> 00:34:34,640
Speaker 1: on that on that bill, um, you know, pushing that

617
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:37,399
Speaker 1: through and you know people are paying attention to it. Well, man,

618
00:34:37,480 --> 00:34:41,439
Speaker 1: it just gets the blinders go on. And so one

619
00:34:41,760 --> 00:34:45,239
Speaker 1: something like that loses momentum, which is really hard things

620
00:34:45,280 --> 00:34:47,799
Speaker 1: sometimes to pick back up again. But then the secondary one,

621
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,279
Speaker 1: which you um you rightly point out, was all of

622
00:34:51,320 --> 00:34:55,279
Speaker 1: a sudden if we're spending billions, which is I mean

623
00:34:55,480 --> 00:35:02,240
Speaker 1: billions and billions on this hundreds of billions really nine million. Uh,

624
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:05,919
Speaker 1: you know, the money's got to come from somewhere. Um. Uh.

625
00:35:05,960 --> 00:35:08,080
Speaker 1: You know, the deficit spending stuff can only go on

626
00:35:08,160 --> 00:35:10,040
Speaker 1: for so long at least that's the way it seems.

627
00:35:10,600 --> 00:35:16,359
Speaker 1: So you know, is is that funding for conservation gonna

628
00:35:16,400 --> 00:35:21,080
Speaker 1: be seen as um, not as important? Well, um, yeah,

629
00:35:21,120 --> 00:35:23,600
Speaker 1: that's a huge concern. Mark. I didn't, Thanks man, you

630
00:35:23,640 --> 00:35:25,239
Speaker 1: just kind of brought me down a little bit. I didn't.

631
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,439
Speaker 1: I haven't even thought about that. But that's just it, right.

632
00:35:28,840 --> 00:35:32,680
Speaker 1: That's there's an example. Stuff just keeps coming up. It's like, oh,

633
00:35:32,719 --> 00:35:35,080
Speaker 1: I was, Oh no, I'm not. I was supposed to

634
00:35:35,080 --> 00:35:37,640
Speaker 1: speak in Door County, Um the third week of April

635
00:35:38,440 --> 00:35:41,520
Speaker 1: at Earth Day event, and Door County is a thumba

636
00:35:41,560 --> 00:35:45,279
Speaker 1: Wisconsin goes up into the lake and uh. Um. I

637
00:35:45,320 --> 00:35:47,960
Speaker 1: haven't heard back from him, but um, I'm guessing that.

638
00:35:48,160 --> 00:35:50,400
Speaker 1: And it was gonna be a great event because um

639
00:35:50,600 --> 00:35:52,600
Speaker 1: there were a couple of politicians were gonna be there.

640
00:35:52,640 --> 00:35:54,040
Speaker 1: I was gonna be on a panel with them, and

641
00:35:54,040 --> 00:35:56,800
Speaker 1: then I was gonna do a talk about um similar

642
00:35:56,800 --> 00:35:59,600
Speaker 1: to the one that I did at Pheasant Fest on

643
00:35:59,600 --> 00:36:03,120
Speaker 1: on uh my perspective and experience with chronic waste duties,

644
00:36:03,760 --> 00:36:07,640
Speaker 1: and that I would assume is at least on hold.

645
00:36:07,640 --> 00:36:09,360
Speaker 1: I've not heard from them. I'm sure they're trying to

646
00:36:09,400 --> 00:36:13,480
Speaker 1: figure that out, um, as you and I uh both

647
00:36:13,600 --> 00:36:16,400
Speaker 1: already know, and most of the listeners here to the

648
00:36:16,520 --> 00:36:21,000
Speaker 1: couple of the Meat Eater live events have already been postponed. Um.

649
00:36:22,239 --> 00:36:23,640
Speaker 1: I'm supposed to be a part of a couple of

650
00:36:23,640 --> 00:36:26,600
Speaker 1: them in June, and they haven't said anything about that yet,

651
00:36:26,640 --> 00:36:30,319
Speaker 1: but um, you know, we'll we'll see. So it's just

652
00:36:30,360 --> 00:36:33,480
Speaker 1: like every day there's another thing that it's like, oh, yeah,

653
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:38,040
Speaker 1: that's gonna be affected by this too. So it's, uh,

654
00:36:38,320 --> 00:36:42,400
Speaker 1: it's unprecedented. That's that. It's just I feel like we

655
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:46,480
Speaker 1: just constantly are shocked by oh now this, now, this, Um,

656
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:48,239
Speaker 1: I don't even know. You know, we've already had to

657
00:36:48,280 --> 00:36:51,560
Speaker 1: cancel some of our shoot dates for back forty, and

658
00:36:51,680 --> 00:36:54,680
Speaker 1: who knows when it gets to May. Um, I don't

659
00:36:54,680 --> 00:36:56,319
Speaker 1: know if we'll be able to do our shoot with you, dub.

660
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:57,840
Speaker 1: I don't know if we're gonna be able to have

661
00:36:57,960 --> 00:37:00,680
Speaker 1: camera crews flying and stuff at that point. Um, So

662
00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:02,319
Speaker 1: everything's kind of up in the air right now. It's

663
00:37:02,400 --> 00:37:05,800
Speaker 1: it's kind of crazy times. Um, but I think we

664
00:37:05,840 --> 00:37:07,959
Speaker 1: should I think we should pivot so that we don't

665
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:12,480
Speaker 1: go to doom and gloom for the sake of our listeners.

666
00:37:12,560 --> 00:37:16,200
Speaker 1: We need a little escape, right But it's important. But yeah,

667
00:37:16,280 --> 00:37:17,880
Speaker 1: I mean, and I'm with you, but it's you know,

668
00:37:17,920 --> 00:37:22,680
Speaker 1: it's I'm glad that you uh one called and asked

669
00:37:22,680 --> 00:37:24,879
Speaker 1: me if I do this, and when that we spend

670
00:37:24,960 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 1: some time talking about it, and um, because it is important.

671
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,400
Speaker 1: It is a backdrop to everything and I'm ready to

672
00:37:30,719 --> 00:37:33,799
Speaker 1: h you know, talk about other things too. So and

673
00:37:34,000 --> 00:37:35,640
Speaker 1: I do think the last thing I will add to

674
00:37:35,680 --> 00:37:38,160
Speaker 1: what we just talked about there. I do think that

675
00:37:38,840 --> 00:37:41,919
Speaker 1: when this all clears up, which which hopefully it will

676
00:37:42,000 --> 00:37:44,600
Speaker 1: clear up sooner than later, and eventually we'll be able

677
00:37:44,600 --> 00:37:47,520
Speaker 1: to get back to normal and hopefully we will have

678
00:37:47,600 --> 00:37:50,480
Speaker 1: been able to minimize the damage of this as much

679
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,120
Speaker 1: as possible. Hopefully when we get to that point. Um,

680
00:37:54,160 --> 00:37:56,640
Speaker 1: I think it's going to be on us in this

681
00:37:56,719 --> 00:38:00,319
Speaker 1: community to pick up that momentum again because said it's

682
00:38:00,320 --> 00:38:02,040
Speaker 1: gonna be hard, it's gonna be easy to lose that

683
00:38:02,120 --> 00:38:04,680
Speaker 1: momentum for things like the Great American Outdoors Act, or

684
00:38:04,760 --> 00:38:07,840
Speaker 1: for the funding for your local conservation organization or whatever

685
00:38:07,840 --> 00:38:09,239
Speaker 1: it is. I think we're gonna have to pick it

686
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:11,760
Speaker 1: up double time when we get back on our feet

687
00:38:12,160 --> 00:38:14,399
Speaker 1: to to get the ball rolling again to make sure

688
00:38:14,440 --> 00:38:18,440
Speaker 1: those things don't get lost in the rubble of of

689
00:38:18,480 --> 00:38:21,360
Speaker 1: everything else. So I just kind of encourage people to

690
00:38:21,400 --> 00:38:23,520
Speaker 1: keep that in the back of your mind, um that

691
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:25,359
Speaker 1: we're gonna have some real work to do on that

692
00:38:25,440 --> 00:38:29,479
Speaker 1: front once we get through this crisis of sorts. So yeah,

693
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,520
Speaker 1: and I would like to hope that, um, something like

694
00:38:32,680 --> 00:38:35,000
Speaker 1: this will give us you know, we were talking about

695
00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:37,359
Speaker 1: the parallels with with c w D that will help

696
00:38:37,440 --> 00:38:42,840
Speaker 1: us maybe have a little better perspective um on on

697
00:38:43,480 --> 00:38:46,560
Speaker 1: you know, controlling disease and the things that we should

698
00:38:46,600 --> 00:38:48,759
Speaker 1: be looking out for, because man, we've been lucky for

699
00:38:48,800 --> 00:38:51,080
Speaker 1: a long time, right, and we really have, and you know,

700
00:38:51,120 --> 00:38:54,240
Speaker 1: the good old days have been happening, and and uh,

701
00:38:54,320 --> 00:38:57,520
Speaker 1: this is a it's just an extremely rude awakening, but

702
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:02,200
Speaker 1: hopefully it'll help us, you know, maintain some some some

703
00:39:02,320 --> 00:39:05,000
Speaker 1: real perspective on all of it as well. Yeah, learned

704
00:39:05,040 --> 00:39:11,439
Speaker 1: some lessons, Okay, So now that we've got that out

705
00:39:11,440 --> 00:39:16,440
Speaker 1: of the way, Doug, I want to talk about conservation

706
00:39:16,719 --> 00:39:21,160
Speaker 1: and habitat management and improvement and and the Durham Farm

707
00:39:21,200 --> 00:39:23,200
Speaker 1: and the Back forty farm and all sorts of stuff

708
00:39:23,200 --> 00:39:26,279
Speaker 1: like that. And I think to do that, at least

709
00:39:26,280 --> 00:39:28,919
Speaker 1: the way I was thinking through this all. We gotta

710
00:39:29,040 --> 00:39:32,680
Speaker 1: start at the beginning. And I don't really know this story. UM.

711
00:39:32,719 --> 00:39:34,400
Speaker 1: I probably know little bits and pieces of it, but

712
00:39:34,440 --> 00:39:38,200
Speaker 1: I kind of want to. I need to understand how

713
00:39:38,280 --> 00:39:42,080
Speaker 1: this began for you. UM. I know that you have

714
00:39:42,239 --> 00:39:46,439
Speaker 1: this family farm that you've had this long life experience with,

715
00:39:47,160 --> 00:39:50,680
Speaker 1: but I'm willing to bet you haven't always approached it

716
00:39:50,760 --> 00:39:53,440
Speaker 1: the way you do now. You talked earlier about you

717
00:39:53,480 --> 00:39:56,840
Speaker 1: try to approach things with a sense of balance. UM.

718
00:39:56,960 --> 00:39:59,000
Speaker 1: And I've heard you talk a lot about the influence

719
00:39:59,040 --> 00:40:03,040
Speaker 1: that Elder Leopold has had on you. UM. Where did

720
00:40:03,080 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: this all begin? How did you get to where you

721
00:40:05,719 --> 00:40:12,120
Speaker 1: are with your philosophy of of wildlife and ecosystem management? Well?

722
00:40:12,600 --> 00:40:16,839
Speaker 1: How long you got? Um? I'll try to I'll try

723
00:40:16,880 --> 00:40:21,239
Speaker 1: to keep it short, you know, um, starting with the farm, um,

724
00:40:21,280 --> 00:40:23,239
Speaker 1: and ending with the farm. I guess you know it's

725
00:40:23,239 --> 00:40:26,200
Speaker 1: been in my family for a hundred and seventeen years.

726
00:40:26,280 --> 00:40:31,040
Speaker 1: I was just looking at some aerial um photographs and

727
00:40:31,239 --> 00:40:34,239
Speaker 1: uh area photographs from the thirties, but then also a

728
00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,160
Speaker 1: Plat book from n three and there it is Joseph

729
00:40:37,239 --> 00:40:41,000
Speaker 1: Duran on the on the biggest wooded part of our property.

730
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:45,799
Speaker 1: And and when you're a little kid, you don't you

731
00:40:45,840 --> 00:40:48,279
Speaker 1: don't like get this stuff that much. And you know,

732
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,680
Speaker 1: I grew up in here in town in Casinovia. I

733
00:40:51,680 --> 00:40:53,440
Speaker 1: didn't grow up. We didn't grow up in the household

734
00:40:53,480 --> 00:40:55,440
Speaker 1: at the at the farm. It was a it was

735
00:40:55,480 --> 00:40:57,719
Speaker 1: a property that my great grandfather bought because of the

736
00:40:58,560 --> 00:41:01,640
Speaker 1: timber on it. So it was this place that we

737
00:41:01,640 --> 00:41:05,600
Speaker 1: went out to, going out to the farm. Um. And uh,

738
00:41:05,719 --> 00:41:07,520
Speaker 1: from the time I was a little kid, we were

739
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:10,040
Speaker 1: doing that. I mean from the time I could uh

740
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:11,920
Speaker 1: hold out of the steering wheel of one of the

741
00:41:11,960 --> 00:41:15,920
Speaker 1: old farm all tractors. Um, you know, you were doing something,

742
00:41:16,000 --> 00:41:18,400
Speaker 1: you know, picking rock. You know. I remember by the

743
00:41:18,400 --> 00:41:21,160
Speaker 1: time I was a you know, ten or twelve years old,

744
00:41:21,160 --> 00:41:22,879
Speaker 1: if you know, we ran out of stuff to do.

745
00:41:23,120 --> 00:41:24,759
Speaker 1: Dad had always said, well, you can always go out

746
00:41:24,760 --> 00:41:27,680
Speaker 1: and cut prickly ash, which is you know, what's something

747
00:41:27,719 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 1: that you don't necessarily want the pastures and then you'd

748
00:41:30,200 --> 00:41:32,080
Speaker 1: find something else to do because that was like the

749
00:41:32,120 --> 00:41:36,839
Speaker 1: worst job, but at least at that time. But um,

750
00:41:37,280 --> 00:41:41,080
Speaker 1: my grandfather obviously, well I shouldn'tay obviously, but my great

751
00:41:41,080 --> 00:41:44,319
Speaker 1: grandfather was gone by the time I was born. My

752
00:41:44,480 --> 00:41:47,800
Speaker 1: grandfather was around all the way until the year that

753
00:41:47,840 --> 00:41:50,240
Speaker 1: I graduated from high school. And he was a lumberman

754
00:41:50,360 --> 00:41:54,960
Speaker 1: and had a m a sawmill and um that um,

755
00:41:55,719 --> 00:41:58,799
Speaker 1: timber from that farm went to and um he was

756
00:41:58,880 --> 00:42:00,640
Speaker 1: he was done with that by the time I'm um,

757
00:42:00,800 --> 00:42:03,680
Speaker 1: I had a memory, but uh, but he was always

758
00:42:03,680 --> 00:42:05,640
Speaker 1: interested in what was going on in the farm. And

759
00:42:05,719 --> 00:42:08,959
Speaker 1: my parents bought the farm from my grandparents and my

760
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:13,880
Speaker 1: grandfather bought it from my great grandparents. So um, so

761
00:42:13,960 --> 00:42:15,359
Speaker 1: that was just a part of it, right, and so

762
00:42:15,360 --> 00:42:18,040
Speaker 1: you're always kind of around that and what the But

763
00:42:18,160 --> 00:42:22,640
Speaker 1: the the timber part of it was, I guess was

764
00:42:22,680 --> 00:42:27,280
Speaker 1: where sort of that conservation idea began. It became ingrained.

765
00:42:27,920 --> 00:42:31,359
Speaker 1: Um and uh, you know all through high school that's

766
00:42:31,400 --> 00:42:34,360
Speaker 1: where I worked and and uh, you know, hunting started

767
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:37,520
Speaker 1: with with my dad taking a squirrel hunting and and

768
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:40,800
Speaker 1: it was like a big deal that around September fifteenth,

769
00:42:40,840 --> 00:42:43,200
Speaker 1: that we got to go squirrel hunting on on the first,

770
00:42:43,360 --> 00:42:46,480
Speaker 1: you know, on the Saturday close in the September. And

771
00:42:46,480 --> 00:42:49,239
Speaker 1: and so, you know, some of my favorite memories of

772
00:42:49,320 --> 00:42:54,480
Speaker 1: my father are those times spent in the woods with him. Um.

773
00:42:54,520 --> 00:42:57,759
Speaker 1: I still have this one memory burned in my my

774
00:42:57,840 --> 00:42:59,560
Speaker 1: head of sitting on a side hill with him. We

775
00:42:59,560 --> 00:43:01,399
Speaker 1: were waiting for some squirrels to come out. And I

776
00:43:01,440 --> 00:43:04,440
Speaker 1: wasn't old enough to be carrying a gun, so you know,

777
00:43:04,520 --> 00:43:08,799
Speaker 1: I wasn't twelve anyway, and this buck walked around this

778
00:43:08,880 --> 00:43:11,800
Speaker 1: side hill in the sunshine, and he just came around

779
00:43:12,040 --> 00:43:14,279
Speaker 1: right on you, and I would know as a buck

780
00:43:14,360 --> 00:43:17,399
Speaker 1: trail now you know it was it was Um wasn't

781
00:43:17,400 --> 00:43:20,000
Speaker 1: on the main trail, but he was still following that contour,

782
00:43:20,040 --> 00:43:22,600
Speaker 1: and it just burned into my memory. And what a

783
00:43:22,680 --> 00:43:26,000
Speaker 1: wonderful thing that was, um, And sitting there with my

784
00:43:26,080 --> 00:43:29,040
Speaker 1: dad and in our woods. And this has been a

785
00:43:29,080 --> 00:43:30,799
Speaker 1: part of the family. And of course some of this

786
00:43:30,880 --> 00:43:34,440
Speaker 1: has grown in my mind over time, but obviously that

787
00:43:34,520 --> 00:43:37,880
Speaker 1: had being impacted me at that time. There was active

788
00:43:37,920 --> 00:43:42,640
Speaker 1: logging on our farm during my uh, you know, during

789
00:43:42,719 --> 00:43:45,759
Speaker 1: my formative years to the time I was you know,

790
00:43:45,920 --> 00:43:50,280
Speaker 1: eighteen or twenty, Um, there were two or three timber harvests,

791
00:43:50,320 --> 00:43:53,279
Speaker 1: so how that was done was kind of important and

792
00:43:53,800 --> 00:43:55,799
Speaker 1: to you know, to to be around and seeing I

793
00:43:55,800 --> 00:44:00,279
Speaker 1: remember cutting logs and are accounting logs with Dad walking

794
00:44:00,320 --> 00:44:01,680
Speaker 1: across them, and I mean, he knew how to he

795
00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,000
Speaker 1: knew how to keep us busy. Man. You know, it

796
00:44:04,120 --> 00:44:07,280
Speaker 1: was just like he was counting them. But he was like, okay,

797
00:44:07,280 --> 00:44:09,040
Speaker 1: the ones with this on, count how many there were?

798
00:44:09,080 --> 00:44:10,960
Speaker 1: And then you know, my brother and I be counting them.

799
00:44:10,960 --> 00:44:12,560
Speaker 1: And then we'd come back and of course our numbers

800
00:44:12,560 --> 00:44:15,920
Speaker 1: weren't the same as but but nonetheless we wropped there

801
00:44:15,960 --> 00:44:20,279
Speaker 1: and around it. And I saw him using the stick, um,

802
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,759
Speaker 1: the measuring stick which you figure out how many board

803
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:27,040
Speaker 1: feet are in a lot, and uh, you know those

804
00:44:27,080 --> 00:44:32,759
Speaker 1: sort of things. And then, um, when I was I

805
00:44:32,800 --> 00:44:34,759
Speaker 1: went to school a couple of years out of out

806
00:44:34,760 --> 00:44:36,640
Speaker 1: of high school, went to college, and then I went

807
00:44:36,719 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 1: worked for a reforestation company. And uh, it was more

808
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:43,680
Speaker 1: of a life adventure as much as anything. Actually, some

809
00:44:43,800 --> 00:44:47,320
Speaker 1: of them was because of my wife, Tricia, who uh

810
00:44:47,880 --> 00:44:51,120
Speaker 1: had been dating. We didn't stay together that at that point,

811
00:44:51,120 --> 00:44:53,359
Speaker 1: but we dated for a while and she'd worked. She'd

812
00:44:53,360 --> 00:44:55,759
Speaker 1: introduced me to these hippie tree planners, right, and she

813
00:44:55,880 --> 00:44:58,680
Speaker 1: was a hippie tree planner too, And back in the day,

814
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:00,759
Speaker 1: this was like a thing it did sometimes, and there's

815
00:45:00,960 --> 00:45:02,560
Speaker 1: a group of people did in the winter, and you

816
00:45:02,600 --> 00:45:07,320
Speaker 1: went off and did these reforestation trips and um, you

817
00:45:07,320 --> 00:45:09,800
Speaker 1: get paid pretty well to slam trees in the ground.

818
00:45:09,840 --> 00:45:14,200
Speaker 1: And I planted hundreds of thousands of trees um as

819
00:45:14,239 --> 00:45:16,360
Speaker 1: a part of an adventure, you know, right. I didn't

820
00:45:16,400 --> 00:45:18,200
Speaker 1: go because oh this is gonna be I'm gonna be

821
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,680
Speaker 1: changing in the world through conservation and planting trees. I

822
00:45:20,719 --> 00:45:22,799
Speaker 1: went because, hey, there's a bunch of hippies going tree

823
00:45:22,800 --> 00:45:25,400
Speaker 1: plant and I'm gonna go with him. And you know

824
00:45:25,440 --> 00:45:27,759
Speaker 1: what I mean. And so that kind of thing sort

825
00:45:27,760 --> 00:45:31,080
Speaker 1: of becomes a formative thing. When I came back, I

826
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,759
Speaker 1: planted trees out on the farm mark that are now giants,

827
00:45:34,920 --> 00:45:39,160
Speaker 1: big white pine and red pine stuff that we've been cutting. Um.

828
00:45:39,200 --> 00:45:41,920
Speaker 1: I planted trees on this thirty acres at what my

829
00:45:41,960 --> 00:45:44,480
Speaker 1: wife and I now own trees and I know now

830
00:45:44,560 --> 00:45:47,640
Speaker 1: own Um. I planted those trees. My god, it's almost

831
00:45:47,680 --> 00:45:51,239
Speaker 1: forty years and thirty five years ago and so um

832
00:45:51,440 --> 00:45:55,160
Speaker 1: closer to forty, I guess, but um and and so

833
00:45:55,280 --> 00:45:57,360
Speaker 1: that kind of thing. You know, it has a pretty

834
00:45:57,360 --> 00:45:59,880
Speaker 1: big impact on you that you you did that and

835
00:46:00,000 --> 00:46:02,000
Speaker 1: then you see it. And I'll say this to you

836
00:46:02,560 --> 00:46:07,439
Speaker 1: because of you know, with your with Everton and Colton. Um,

837
00:46:07,560 --> 00:46:10,560
Speaker 1: plant trees with your kids. Man, plant trees with your kids.

838
00:46:10,560 --> 00:46:16,040
Speaker 1: Their memories that grow they really are um and uh

839
00:46:16,120 --> 00:46:18,799
Speaker 1: I did that and those memories. My daughter's planted trees

840
00:46:18,840 --> 00:46:21,120
Speaker 1: with me out at the farm. We cut um, we

841
00:46:21,200 --> 00:46:23,400
Speaker 1: cut Christmas tree out of some of the white pines

842
00:46:23,440 --> 00:46:25,839
Speaker 1: that we we planted. If just a few years ago

843
00:46:25,960 --> 00:46:28,760
Speaker 1: this year is where a Christmas tree came from. Anyway,

844
00:46:29,600 --> 00:46:34,360
Speaker 1: um uh I remember my father kind of explaining to

845
00:46:34,360 --> 00:46:36,600
Speaker 1: me what what a good tree wasn't you know, and

846
00:46:36,600 --> 00:46:38,920
Speaker 1: what a not good tree was in terms of what

847
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:40,799
Speaker 1: had a lot of wood in it. And you know,

848
00:46:40,800 --> 00:46:42,759
Speaker 1: look how tall and straight they are. And this is

849
00:46:42,840 --> 00:46:45,080
Speaker 1: red oak and this is really great stuff. And this

850
00:46:45,120 --> 00:46:47,719
Speaker 1: is white oak and this is hard maple. And and

851
00:46:48,080 --> 00:46:50,239
Speaker 1: you know those big old wolf trees you'd column which

852
00:46:50,239 --> 00:46:52,799
Speaker 1: are great for wildlife, but they're not. They're not They're

853
00:46:52,800 --> 00:46:56,560
Speaker 1: in the hell. They're in a stepping wood in them.

854
00:46:56,640 --> 00:46:58,759
Speaker 1: Um and Grandpa would say the same thing. So that

855
00:46:58,840 --> 00:47:02,160
Speaker 1: kind of perspective had And well, so then I come

856
00:47:02,200 --> 00:47:05,200
Speaker 1: back from from the tree planting gig and I milk

857
00:47:05,239 --> 00:47:06,799
Speaker 1: how's on the farm a little bit more? And there's

858
00:47:06,960 --> 00:47:09,160
Speaker 1: you know, it's a small dairy farm. And we had

859
00:47:09,160 --> 00:47:12,239
Speaker 1: a small dairy herd and uh. And then I went

860
00:47:12,280 --> 00:47:15,920
Speaker 1: off and um finished college. I had a degree in

861
00:47:15,960 --> 00:47:17,440
Speaker 1: earth science at the time. I went and got a

862
00:47:17,480 --> 00:47:19,960
Speaker 1: history degree in teaching degree, and I moved out to uh,

863
00:47:20,800 --> 00:47:24,000
Speaker 1: New England where my uh, well, you know, you make

864
00:47:24,000 --> 00:47:26,160
Speaker 1: a long move from the Midwest, New England is probably

865
00:47:26,200 --> 00:47:29,680
Speaker 1: a woman involved and uh. I got a job with

866
00:47:29,760 --> 00:47:32,160
Speaker 1: the landscape company out there in the in the first

867
00:47:32,200 --> 00:47:35,080
Speaker 1: summer I went out there, and um, man, it just

868
00:47:35,320 --> 00:47:37,960
Speaker 1: sparked this interest in horticulture. And I worked on the

869
00:47:37,960 --> 00:47:42,920
Speaker 1: south shore of Boston, um in the Weymouth brain Tree

870
00:47:42,920 --> 00:47:44,640
Speaker 1: all the way down to Cape Cod area, and it

871
00:47:44,719 --> 00:47:46,840
Speaker 1: was just really interesting to see a different part of

872
00:47:46,840 --> 00:47:49,120
Speaker 1: the world like that, in a different part of the country.

873
00:47:49,160 --> 00:47:51,400
Speaker 1: And then I learned a lot and then started to

874
00:47:52,000 --> 00:47:54,640
Speaker 1: get interested in horticulture, and of course they just sort

875
00:47:54,640 --> 00:47:58,720
Speaker 1: of followed along and then taught high school in Glorham,

876
00:47:58,719 --> 00:48:03,360
Speaker 1: New Hampshire for the rest of the nineteen eighties. For

877
00:48:04,040 --> 00:48:06,799
Speaker 1: five years was there, you know, a summer on either

878
00:48:06,920 --> 00:48:10,359
Speaker 1: end of it too, and a couple of summers up there.

879
00:48:10,480 --> 00:48:14,120
Speaker 1: I worked on the for the Randolph Mountain Club, which

880
00:48:14,239 --> 00:48:17,560
Speaker 1: was the which is the oldest mountain club in North America.

881
00:48:17,880 --> 00:48:19,440
Speaker 1: They were always quick to point out it may not

882
00:48:19,520 --> 00:48:24,359
Speaker 1: be the biggest, but it was the oldest. And uh

883
00:48:24,560 --> 00:48:27,840
Speaker 1: did trail work, um, and so in the Appalachian and

884
00:48:27,880 --> 00:48:31,440
Speaker 1: the Presidential Range of the White Mountains, and it intersected

885
00:48:31,440 --> 00:48:34,640
Speaker 1: with the Appalachian Trail and the Appalachian Mountain Club and

886
00:48:34,680 --> 00:48:40,600
Speaker 1: all those folks and seeing um, you know, the White

887
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:42,560
Speaker 1: Mountain National Forest that was a part of that. And

888
00:48:42,640 --> 00:48:44,919
Speaker 1: you know, it's funny because we were having a conversation,

889
00:48:45,000 --> 00:48:46,719
Speaker 1: you and I were having a conversation when we were

890
00:48:46,719 --> 00:48:50,239
Speaker 1: in Alaska about our public lands experience and I and

891
00:48:50,280 --> 00:48:52,680
Speaker 1: I remember saying something like, well, you know, maybe Steve

892
00:48:52,760 --> 00:48:54,759
Speaker 1: was asking us about it, and I said, yeah, I've

893
00:48:54,760 --> 00:48:56,600
Speaker 1: really not had that many. I mean, most of what

894
00:48:56,640 --> 00:48:58,600
Speaker 1: I've done is on private land. And it has gone

895
00:48:58,640 --> 00:49:02,240
Speaker 1: to me later like duh. You spent all those years

896
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:04,840
Speaker 1: right there in the middle of the White Mountain National

897
00:49:04,920 --> 00:49:07,799
Speaker 1: Forest and you did that trail work and um and

898
00:49:07,880 --> 00:49:13,160
Speaker 1: learned a bunch of stuff and and so uh but

899
00:49:13,280 --> 00:49:14,640
Speaker 1: you know, you get to be old and your mind

900
00:49:14,719 --> 00:49:17,440
Speaker 1: starts to slip and you maybe forget some of that stuff.

901
00:49:17,480 --> 00:49:22,200
Speaker 1: But uh, that had a profound impact on me as well.

902
00:49:22,239 --> 00:49:24,719
Speaker 1: And one of the things was is I was interested

903
00:49:25,640 --> 00:49:30,359
Speaker 1: in the that that a lot of my students were

904
00:49:30,400 --> 00:49:33,880
Speaker 1: living in the middle of this and they didn't like,

905
00:49:34,600 --> 00:49:36,359
Speaker 1: you know about it, Like what do you mean You've

906
00:49:36,360 --> 00:49:39,160
Speaker 1: not been up to you know, Dome Rock, or you've

907
00:49:39,200 --> 00:49:42,200
Speaker 1: not been over into into Evans Notch or you've not

908
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:45,120
Speaker 1: been I mean, you know it's I mean they kind

909
00:49:45,120 --> 00:49:47,439
Speaker 1: of into the ski hills and you know, I didn't

910
00:49:47,480 --> 00:49:49,239
Speaker 1: have the rest of that perspective. So then as a

911
00:49:49,520 --> 00:49:51,479
Speaker 1: history teacher, is one of the things that I tried

912
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:55,080
Speaker 1: to and and a social studies teacher taught a class

913
00:49:55,120 --> 00:49:59,760
Speaker 1: about New Hampshire also, UM tried to help them understand

914
00:49:59,800 --> 00:50:02,120
Speaker 1: that perspective a little bit. And it was or what

915
00:50:02,160 --> 00:50:05,480
Speaker 1: they had around them, and uh, it's pretty cool too

916
00:50:06,640 --> 00:50:10,040
Speaker 1: to hear from uh, you know, some of the outdoorsy

917
00:50:10,080 --> 00:50:14,520
Speaker 1: types there and what they were interested in. And UM,

918
00:50:14,560 --> 00:50:20,320
Speaker 1: so that UM had a profound impact on me. UM.

919
00:50:20,360 --> 00:50:22,439
Speaker 1: It's interesting because I was just you know, the cool

920
00:50:22,480 --> 00:50:26,560
Speaker 1: thing about the the interweb here and and uh uh

921
00:50:26,840 --> 00:50:30,319
Speaker 1: Instagram uh, which is like where I spend most of

922
00:50:30,360 --> 00:50:35,399
Speaker 1: my social media times on Instagram. UM, conversing off people

923
00:50:35,440 --> 00:50:37,360
Speaker 1: that I've met, well one, students that I've kept in

924
00:50:37,400 --> 00:50:39,720
Speaker 1: touch with, but then people I've met who know people

925
00:50:39,760 --> 00:50:44,799
Speaker 1: that I knew out there. And then places Gillya, Maine,

926
00:50:45,000 --> 00:50:49,239
Speaker 1: Evans Notch, the Androskogan River and you know, looking at

927
00:50:49,360 --> 00:50:52,400
Speaker 1: like Google Earth and realizing and it's checked that I

928
00:50:52,600 --> 00:50:54,960
Speaker 1: at this place I used to live just across the

929
00:50:55,000 --> 00:50:58,279
Speaker 1: New Hampshire border in Maine is now gone and there's

930
00:50:58,320 --> 00:51:00,960
Speaker 1: a sand pit there as I wait a minute, what

931
00:51:01,040 --> 00:51:04,480
Speaker 1: happened there? And conversing with this guy about it on

932
00:51:04,480 --> 00:51:08,440
Speaker 1: on on social media and UM and him reassuring that

933
00:51:08,560 --> 00:51:11,000
Speaker 1: me that most of that area is as much as

934
00:51:11,000 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 1: it was. UM, but that being in northern New Hampshire,

935
00:51:16,320 --> 00:51:18,720
Speaker 1: you know, and doing things like the Guaranteed Moose Cruise

936
00:51:18,719 --> 00:51:21,520
Speaker 1: where you could go, um it's like a twenty mile

937
00:51:21,640 --> 00:51:24,000
Speaker 1: drive north and you damn sure see a new moose,

938
00:51:24,040 --> 00:51:27,440
Speaker 1: you know. UM, those sort of things had a big

939
00:51:27,480 --> 00:51:31,360
Speaker 1: you know, had that sort of impact on me. UM

940
00:51:31,560 --> 00:51:35,239
Speaker 1: moved back. UM eventually ended up in Door County, where

941
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:38,759
Speaker 1: I had a landscape business. UM took horticulture classes, got

942
00:51:38,760 --> 00:51:41,799
Speaker 1: it really involved with with conservation at that point, had

943
00:51:41,840 --> 00:51:48,359
Speaker 1: a landscape business that was mostly focused on UM naturalization

944
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,080
Speaker 1: and restoration and did some was really lucky to do

945
00:51:52,120 --> 00:51:55,280
Speaker 1: some really cool work and meet some really interesting people

946
00:51:55,400 --> 00:51:58,160
Speaker 1: up there and people who really care about that area.

947
00:51:58,160 --> 00:52:00,759
Speaker 1: And Door County, Wisconsin is a free can gem and

948
00:52:00,800 --> 00:52:03,399
Speaker 1: don't go there anybody, because there's plenty of folks there now,

949
00:52:03,920 --> 00:52:07,080
Speaker 1: but there's a lot of a lot of natural areas

950
00:52:07,160 --> 00:52:11,600
Speaker 1: there and just these these gems of of of state

951
00:52:11,640 --> 00:52:14,160
Speaker 1: parks and and that sort of thing, and you know,

952
00:52:14,320 --> 00:52:18,600
Speaker 1: so I worked with that environment. UM eventually ended up

953
00:52:18,840 --> 00:52:22,439
Speaker 1: back in Madison about twenty Madison, Wisconsin, twenty five years ago,

954
00:52:23,239 --> 00:52:27,240
Speaker 1: and m life change and I end up with working

955
00:52:27,239 --> 00:52:30,400
Speaker 1: with a landscape is staying in the landscape and the

956
00:52:30,440 --> 00:52:35,000
Speaker 1: horticulture business. Worked for a major regional landscape firm as

957
00:52:35,040 --> 00:52:37,919
Speaker 1: a branch manager and then eventually got picked off by

958
00:52:38,680 --> 00:52:40,640
Speaker 1: engineering firm to go to work for them as a

959
00:52:40,680 --> 00:52:47,160
Speaker 1: project manager and build and manage athletic fields. UM and uh,

960
00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,920
Speaker 1: you know all the time, especially the last twenty five years,

961
00:52:50,960 --> 00:52:54,480
Speaker 1: staying connected to the to the to the farm. Oh.

962
00:52:54,520 --> 00:52:56,920
Speaker 1: I was gonna say when I was Indoor County, had

963
00:52:56,960 --> 00:53:00,480
Speaker 1: a little farm up there, and UM met one of

964
00:53:00,480 --> 00:53:02,919
Speaker 1: the guys from the Land Conservation Department who was really

965
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:06,759
Speaker 1: interested in pheasant hunting, and since I had pheasants on

966
00:53:06,800 --> 00:53:11,279
Speaker 1: my property, was particularly interested in me. UM and we

967
00:53:11,800 --> 00:53:15,000
Speaker 1: He was one of the people who really introduced me

968
00:53:15,120 --> 00:53:19,520
Speaker 1: to UH the Land Conservation Department in the county and

969
00:53:19,560 --> 00:53:25,000
Speaker 1: our Natural Resource Conservation Service pheasants forever UM you know,

970
00:53:25,080 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 1: working with f s A, the Farm Services Association, and

971
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:33,560
Speaker 1: I started at that point getting involved with conservation programs

972
00:53:33,600 --> 00:53:38,120
Speaker 1: for private landowners on my own land. UH, Indoor County.

973
00:53:38,160 --> 00:53:40,359
Speaker 1: We really didn't have the I didn't have the opportunity

974
00:53:40,440 --> 00:53:43,360
Speaker 1: to do that with many other clients or many of

975
00:53:43,360 --> 00:53:46,040
Speaker 1: our clients, but with one I did. UM. But it

976
00:53:46,120 --> 00:53:51,399
Speaker 1: really made me realize, Wow, here's a whole you know, opportunity.

977
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:53,200
Speaker 1: And I remember thinking, man, I wish I would have

978
00:53:53,719 --> 00:53:55,960
Speaker 1: known this when I was a kid. I probably would

979
00:53:56,000 --> 00:54:00,239
Speaker 1: have been a wildlife ecologist or a forester some thing

980
00:54:00,320 --> 00:54:02,360
Speaker 1: like that. UM. I didn't have that kind of focus

981
00:54:02,400 --> 00:54:07,319
Speaker 1: at the time. UM eventually moved to Madison. As I said, uh,

982
00:54:08,080 --> 00:54:10,480
Speaker 1: five years ago, my my youngest brother was killed in

983
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,640
Speaker 1: the car accident and he was living on the farm

984
00:54:12,680 --> 00:54:14,319
Speaker 1: at the time, and so everything kind of was up

985
00:54:14,320 --> 00:54:17,160
Speaker 1: in an upheaval in our family, and UM I was

986
00:54:17,200 --> 00:54:19,920
Speaker 1: the one who was closest, and UM ended up in

987
00:54:19,960 --> 00:54:23,120
Speaker 1: Madison and sort of taking care of the farm. And

988
00:54:23,160 --> 00:54:25,680
Speaker 1: because of these perspectives that I have from these different

989
00:54:25,680 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: parts of the country, in different experiences and worked with

990
00:54:30,400 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: various agencies. UM my dad UM, UM, you know he

991
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:38,440
Speaker 1: was well, he died a couple of years ago, but

992
00:54:38,600 --> 00:54:43,600
Speaker 1: you know I was getting older at the time. UM.

993
00:54:43,840 --> 00:54:45,960
Speaker 1: We really needed help with things on the farm, and

994
00:54:46,000 --> 00:54:50,000
Speaker 1: eventually turned over the whole management of it to me

995
00:54:50,040 --> 00:54:53,800
Speaker 1: because the farm, uh we quit farming, you know, dairy farming.

996
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:56,359
Speaker 1: And my brother was the last one to dairy farm

997
00:54:56,360 --> 00:55:01,200
Speaker 1: in and and and he left the area. And the

998
00:55:01,239 --> 00:55:03,440
Speaker 1: farm didn't really owe us anything, right, I mean, it

999
00:55:03,520 --> 00:55:08,800
Speaker 1: had been paid for and thank goodness, my parents, UM

1000
00:55:08,960 --> 00:55:12,000
Speaker 1: had done some smart things in their lives and the

1001
00:55:12,000 --> 00:55:14,720
Speaker 1: farm paid for itself and they didn't need to sell

1002
00:55:14,760 --> 00:55:21,160
Speaker 1: it to UM finance their retirement. So now all these

1003
00:55:21,239 --> 00:55:23,520
Speaker 1: years later that in fact, just this past year if

1004
00:55:23,800 --> 00:55:27,240
Speaker 1: after my mother passed away, my generation, my four brothers

1005
00:55:27,239 --> 00:55:31,880
Speaker 1: and sisters and I are now all owners of the property.

1006
00:55:32,000 --> 00:55:37,440
Speaker 1: So um, and we've we've kept it. We're keeping it

1007
00:55:37,480 --> 00:55:42,240
Speaker 1: in a way to honor my my younger brother's memory. UM.

1008
00:55:42,280 --> 00:55:44,920
Speaker 1: In fact, our LLC is called Matt's Last Tree Stand

1009
00:55:45,680 --> 00:55:49,879
Speaker 1: um l C. And and everything we're doing is sort

1010
00:55:49,920 --> 00:55:53,759
Speaker 1: of for for for two things. One is for it

1011
00:55:53,760 --> 00:55:57,400
Speaker 1: has to be financially viableity financially viable, it can't you know,

1012
00:55:57,440 --> 00:55:59,080
Speaker 1: it's got to pay for itself. It's at least got

1013
00:55:59,160 --> 00:56:02,279
Speaker 1: to pay its own expense. Is And then um, we're

1014
00:56:02,280 --> 00:56:04,759
Speaker 1: trying to do the quote unquote right thing. And you

1015
00:56:04,800 --> 00:56:07,879
Speaker 1: know that's changes and it adapts and all that for

1016
00:56:08,080 --> 00:56:12,880
Speaker 1: conservation management so um. And because now in my business

1017
00:56:13,120 --> 00:56:15,560
Speaker 1: that I've been back out on my own for about

1018
00:56:15,680 --> 00:56:23,480
Speaker 1: um twelve years now, UM, I provide UM site and

1019
00:56:23,800 --> 00:56:29,719
Speaker 1: land management, consulting and contracting services. UM. The farm is

1020
00:56:29,719 --> 00:56:32,040
Speaker 1: sort of approving ground for a lot of things. I mean,

1021
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,400
Speaker 1: I've had an awful lot of folks out you know,

1022
00:56:34,520 --> 00:56:37,000
Speaker 1: through the farm and sort of showing them what we've done,

1023
00:56:37,440 --> 00:56:40,319
Speaker 1: what we're doing what's going well, what's not going well?

1024
00:56:40,440 --> 00:56:42,680
Speaker 1: I mean, that's how those lessons as important as any

1025
00:56:42,719 --> 00:56:46,239
Speaker 1: of them, And those are the kinds of things that, um,

1026
00:56:46,239 --> 00:56:49,279
Speaker 1: that I feel so fortunate to have had the opportunity

1027
00:56:49,400 --> 00:56:55,120
Speaker 1: to you know, to to go next. Um, you know,

1028
00:56:55,160 --> 00:57:01,040
Speaker 1: and then interestingly enough or serendipitous, serendipitously off twelve years

1029
00:57:01,080 --> 00:57:03,480
Speaker 1: ago was the first time I heard of a skinny

1030
00:57:03,480 --> 00:57:06,600
Speaker 1: little guy named Steve Rinella. And a little over ten

1031
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:10,279
Speaker 1: years or ago he and I became friends. And you know,

1032
00:57:11,840 --> 00:57:13,839
Speaker 1: that's how I got here, markin here we are now.

1033
00:57:15,280 --> 00:57:20,040
Speaker 1: So you talked about, you know, trying to do the

1034
00:57:20,160 --> 00:57:24,800
Speaker 1: right thing on your guys farm. How how would you

1035
00:57:24,880 --> 00:57:29,120
Speaker 1: describe the Durn philosophy where you are now after all

1036
00:57:29,160 --> 00:57:32,400
Speaker 1: those experiences just you described and trying all these different

1037
00:57:32,400 --> 00:57:34,960
Speaker 1: things and seeing all these different philosophies and ways to

1038
00:57:35,000 --> 00:57:37,800
Speaker 1: go about managing whether the public lands or private lands,

1039
00:57:38,800 --> 00:57:43,400
Speaker 1: how would you describe the Durn philosophy to wildlife or

1040
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:48,400
Speaker 1: habitat management, um and doing the right thing where you

1041
00:57:48,400 --> 00:57:56,560
Speaker 1: at now? Well, um, it's a simple phrase. It's not ours,

1042
00:57:56,600 --> 00:58:03,400
Speaker 1: it's just our turn. And so that philosophy that actually

1043
00:58:03,440 --> 00:58:06,960
Speaker 1: came about walking out of the woods with a forester

1044
00:58:08,280 --> 00:58:13,800
Speaker 1: um where we had been marking big giant trees um

1045
00:58:13,880 --> 00:58:16,280
Speaker 1: for for harvests, and they were happening to be big

1046
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:20,000
Speaker 1: red oaks and a few white oaks that um, it

1047
00:58:20,120 --> 00:58:22,080
Speaker 1: was their time. And I remember my dad saying to

1048
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,280
Speaker 1: me, He He says, I know it needs to be dug done, Doug,

1049
00:58:24,360 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 1: but I don't want to be the one to do it.

1050
00:58:26,480 --> 00:58:29,320
Speaker 1: And I realized at that point that these five year

1051
00:58:29,360 --> 00:58:33,360
Speaker 1: old trees were little tiny trees when my dad was born,

1052
00:58:33,880 --> 00:58:37,160
Speaker 1: and over his ninety two years, he grew up with

1053
00:58:37,200 --> 00:58:41,320
Speaker 1: those trees and that forest developed over that time. Anyway,

1054
00:58:41,400 --> 00:58:43,640
Speaker 1: I was working with the forester putting it together, and

1055
00:58:43,680 --> 00:58:46,720
Speaker 1: it's happened to be a d NR forester who was

1056
00:58:47,560 --> 00:58:51,080
Speaker 1: in Wisconsin. We have a forestry h every county has

1057
00:58:51,120 --> 00:58:53,400
Speaker 1: a DNR forester and and and they come out and

1058
00:58:54,400 --> 00:58:58,840
Speaker 1: you know, give you perspective um for free, um no charge,

1059
00:58:58,840 --> 00:59:02,080
Speaker 1: I should say, on um, you know what sort of

1060
00:59:02,080 --> 00:59:05,240
Speaker 1: give you the perspective of your property in your woods. Anyway,

1061
00:59:05,280 --> 00:59:07,400
Speaker 1: we're walking out and we've been marking some trees for

1062
00:59:07,840 --> 00:59:11,120
Speaker 1: t s I timber stand improvement, and we stopped at

1063
00:59:11,120 --> 00:59:13,880
Speaker 1: the top of the hill and we're just sort of

1064
00:59:14,000 --> 00:59:15,600
Speaker 1: chit chatting there for a minute, and he goes, you know,

1065
00:59:15,640 --> 00:59:18,400
Speaker 1: I really applaud that you and your family are are

1066
00:59:18,400 --> 00:59:20,680
Speaker 1: willing to do this, because a lot of people just

1067
00:59:20,760 --> 00:59:27,040
Speaker 1: want to hold that kind of timber in place, and

1068
00:59:27,480 --> 00:59:31,680
Speaker 1: you know, eventually it starts to fall and and you

1069
00:59:31,720 --> 00:59:35,040
Speaker 1: know there are reasons to do this, you know too,

1070
00:59:35,320 --> 00:59:38,760
Speaker 1: it's time to start the woods over, it's time to

1071
00:59:38,800 --> 00:59:42,000
Speaker 1: harvest the you know, the economic benefit of all that.

1072
00:59:42,080 --> 00:59:44,680
Speaker 1: And I said, well, you know, I feel like we're

1073
00:59:44,720 --> 00:59:48,520
Speaker 1: standing on the shoulders of my great grandfather, my grandfather,

1074
00:59:48,680 --> 00:59:51,520
Speaker 1: my father, and I mean parents, but you know, male

1075
00:59:51,600 --> 00:59:58,120
Speaker 1: dominated um the farm stuff grandparents and uh. And I said,

1076
00:59:58,120 --> 00:59:59,880
Speaker 1: I guess I just feel like it's it's not our

1077
01:00:00,040 --> 01:00:02,919
Speaker 1: it's just our turn. And Mike Finley was the forest Journey.

1078
01:00:02,920 --> 01:00:04,680
Speaker 1: He looked at me and goes, yeah, I write that down,

1079
01:00:05,680 --> 01:00:08,360
Speaker 1: and so I did. And that really is the philosophy.

1080
01:00:08,480 --> 01:00:11,040
Speaker 1: So it's sort of that attitude of what are we

1081
01:00:11,080 --> 01:00:14,160
Speaker 1: going to do now and what does it have to

1082
01:00:14,200 --> 01:00:16,560
Speaker 1: do with the future. Mike said to me one time

1083
01:00:16,680 --> 01:00:19,320
Speaker 1: when we were talking about some timber harvest. He goes,

1084
01:00:20,080 --> 01:00:22,479
Speaker 1: one perspective to keep in a timber harvest is not

1085
01:00:22,600 --> 01:00:26,560
Speaker 1: so much what you're taking, but what you're leaving and

1086
01:00:26,680 --> 01:00:30,960
Speaker 1: what's going to happen after you do that harvest. And

1087
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:34,520
Speaker 1: it was a really important thing. So the right thing

1088
01:00:34,600 --> 01:00:37,000
Speaker 1: is can be you know, the right thing can be fleeting, right,

1089
01:00:37,040 --> 01:00:40,439
Speaker 1: I mean, but a plan, our management plan and any

1090
01:00:40,440 --> 01:00:45,200
Speaker 1: management plan that I worked on for a landowner is

1091
01:00:45,440 --> 01:00:49,600
Speaker 1: one that has to be adaptive. Right. It's not like, okay,

1092
01:00:49,640 --> 01:00:51,680
Speaker 1: this is the way we're this is this is what

1093
01:00:51,720 --> 01:00:54,120
Speaker 1: our plan says, so we have to stick to it. Well,

1094
01:00:54,720 --> 01:00:56,920
Speaker 1: you know, boy, and nature things change, you know, in

1095
01:00:57,000 --> 01:01:00,840
Speaker 1: a great example of that is chronic wasting disease. Um,

1096
01:01:01,000 --> 01:01:04,960
Speaker 1: things change, so we changed our our hunting philosophy a

1097
01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:09,200
Speaker 1: little bit. Um. In forestry, we have this thing now

1098
01:01:09,280 --> 01:01:13,600
Speaker 1: called the Emerald ashboard. So the Emerald dashboarder is killing

1099
01:01:13,800 --> 01:01:16,480
Speaker 1: ash trees like crazy. I know you've got Michigan too,

1100
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,760
Speaker 1: And so if you're in doing a harvest, probably how

1101
01:01:20,800 --> 01:01:23,080
Speaker 1: to take the ash too for two reasons, One to

1102
01:01:24,040 --> 01:01:27,680
Speaker 1: catch that economic value that you can before they are dead,

1103
01:01:28,080 --> 01:01:31,320
Speaker 1: and then to to hopefully you know, have form a

1104
01:01:31,360 --> 01:01:33,960
Speaker 1: little bit of a buffer there so that the disease

1105
01:01:34,000 --> 01:01:38,000
Speaker 1: doesn't continue to advance. So um, it kind of goes

1106
01:01:38,040 --> 01:01:41,040
Speaker 1: back to what we were talking earlier, right, that it's

1107
01:01:41,080 --> 01:01:47,280
Speaker 1: important to um draw on your experience, uh, to be

1108
01:01:47,360 --> 01:01:51,120
Speaker 1: willing to be adaptive, but most importantly to talk to

1109
01:01:52,040 --> 01:01:57,200
Speaker 1: experts in a particular field. UM. Some of my best

1110
01:01:57,200 --> 01:02:02,560
Speaker 1: friends are foresters and um and and wildlife ecologists or

1111
01:02:02,800 --> 01:02:04,960
Speaker 1: or habitat e collegists. You know a lot of friends

1112
01:02:05,000 --> 01:02:08,840
Speaker 1: with with pheasants forever and and man, those are the

1113
01:02:08,840 --> 01:02:10,840
Speaker 1: people that I talked to about this stuff. It's still

1114
01:02:10,920 --> 01:02:14,920
Speaker 1: up to me. It's still my decision and or us,

1115
01:02:15,080 --> 01:02:18,760
Speaker 1: my my family and I. But it's it's all of

1116
01:02:18,800 --> 01:02:23,520
Speaker 1: that information. What's the quote unquote best thing, and um

1117
01:02:23,680 --> 01:02:26,680
Speaker 1: ours tends to be from a conservation perspective. We could

1118
01:02:26,760 --> 01:02:32,240
Speaker 1: make more money on our crop land right now, um,

1119
01:02:32,400 --> 01:02:34,280
Speaker 1: even though commodities are down a little bit. If I

1120
01:02:34,320 --> 01:02:36,400
Speaker 1: was still if I still was just renting it to

1121
01:02:36,880 --> 01:02:39,160
Speaker 1: um one of the local farmers for corn and beans,

1122
01:02:39,160 --> 01:02:43,880
Speaker 1: corn and beans, you know, uh, road cropping. But five

1123
01:02:43,960 --> 01:02:46,440
Speaker 1: years ago, well six years ago, we just finished our

1124
01:02:46,480 --> 01:02:49,720
Speaker 1: fifth year. We went back into the conservation reserve program,

1125
01:02:49,760 --> 01:02:52,920
Speaker 1: put it all back in. We're not making as much money,

1126
01:02:52,960 --> 01:02:58,880
Speaker 1: but financially it works. And then we saw my siblings

1127
01:02:58,880 --> 01:03:05,280
Speaker 1: and I, UM, so that um that that will. We're

1128
01:03:05,360 --> 01:03:10,600
Speaker 1: achieving multiple benefits from one action. And when I talk

1129
01:03:10,680 --> 01:03:13,520
Speaker 1: with politicians about things like the conservation reserve program, there

1130
01:03:13,560 --> 01:03:17,360
Speaker 1: are multiple benefits from one action, and that action is

1131
01:03:17,560 --> 01:03:20,960
Speaker 1: allowing more acres or paying for acreage to be in

1132
01:03:21,000 --> 01:03:25,960
Speaker 1: the conservation reserved plan. So first, we've taken some highly roadable,

1133
01:03:26,280 --> 01:03:29,080
Speaker 1: marginal farmland out of out of production. And quite honestly,

1134
01:03:29,120 --> 01:03:33,120
Speaker 1: our entire farm is considered highly erotable land because of

1135
01:03:33,160 --> 01:03:38,520
Speaker 1: the slopes and everything. Um, you've created wildlife habitat, You've

1136
01:03:38,560 --> 01:03:42,480
Speaker 1: created by by the seating that you do. Um, You've

1137
01:03:43,160 --> 01:03:50,920
Speaker 1: we're sequestering carbon or improving water quality. Um. And you know, aesthetically,

1138
01:03:50,920 --> 01:03:55,040
Speaker 1: it's pretty darned cool too. Um. Now philosophically, there's other

1139
01:03:55,080 --> 01:03:57,600
Speaker 1: people out there. I can tell you. One farmer said

1140
01:03:57,600 --> 01:03:59,000
Speaker 1: to me what looks to me like just a bunch

1141
01:03:59,000 --> 01:04:03,960
Speaker 1: of damn weeds. Uh. So, I mean from his perspective,

1142
01:04:03,960 --> 01:04:07,640
Speaker 1: it is because he's a farmer, right, um, and he

1143
01:04:07,680 --> 01:04:10,240
Speaker 1: wants to grow corny beans, corner beans, corn beans, and

1144
01:04:10,280 --> 01:04:15,640
Speaker 1: maybe hey once in a while. So um, you know, again,

1145
01:04:15,760 --> 01:04:19,800
Speaker 1: from whose perspective and from ours, it's like, well, what

1146
01:04:19,800 --> 01:04:24,000
Speaker 1: what is the what the financial viability is important? Um

1147
01:04:24,200 --> 01:04:28,040
Speaker 1: concept We've made a commitment to conservation UM. But we

1148
01:04:28,080 --> 01:04:29,800
Speaker 1: don't have money that we can just throw at it.

1149
01:04:29,840 --> 01:04:32,040
Speaker 1: I will say that we did our big timber harvest

1150
01:04:32,600 --> 01:04:36,440
Speaker 1: over the last several years UM. That money all went

1151
01:04:36,480 --> 01:04:40,000
Speaker 1: into a fund UM or almost all of it went

1152
01:04:40,000 --> 01:04:44,080
Speaker 1: into a fund that UM secures the financial security of

1153
01:04:44,120 --> 01:04:46,520
Speaker 1: the farm for the next hundred over a hundred years.

1154
01:04:47,320 --> 01:04:50,400
Speaker 1: And when we were doing a this timber harvest, what

1155
01:04:50,400 --> 01:04:53,040
Speaker 1: we're doing this oak oak harvest that we're doing, we're

1156
01:04:53,280 --> 01:04:56,040
Speaker 1: trying to regenerate oaks up there. That's a hundred year

1157
01:04:56,080 --> 01:05:00,680
Speaker 1: commitment UM. And we because of the experts came out

1158
01:05:00,680 --> 01:05:02,480
Speaker 1: and said, you have a good spot where you should

1159
01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:05,280
Speaker 1: be able to regenerate oak here this this area over here,

1160
01:05:05,360 --> 01:05:07,240
Speaker 1: not so much but over here, yes, you should be

1161
01:05:07,280 --> 01:05:10,560
Speaker 1: able to regenerate oaks. And without getting into oak regeneration

1162
01:05:10,640 --> 01:05:13,880
Speaker 1: too deep. UM. So when I have an expert telling

1163
01:05:13,880 --> 01:05:15,520
Speaker 1: me that this is a spot where you can do it,

1164
01:05:15,640 --> 01:05:19,240
Speaker 1: not so much over there, let's let's take a look

1165
01:05:19,280 --> 01:05:22,960
Speaker 1: at that and what is that going to require? So UM,

1166
01:05:23,040 --> 01:05:26,680
Speaker 1: that's what our that's what the right thing is. And

1167
01:05:27,000 --> 01:05:30,480
Speaker 1: well that was kind of the overall view of what

1168
01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:34,160
Speaker 1: you asked me, Right, Yeah, it was, And I gotta

1169
01:05:34,960 --> 01:05:38,920
Speaker 1: I want to get a better sense of the why

1170
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,360
Speaker 1: for a lot of that. Um. There's a lot of

1171
01:05:41,360 --> 01:05:46,200
Speaker 1: people that buy land for hunting is their topical right,

1172
01:05:46,200 --> 01:05:48,400
Speaker 1: at least a lot of folks listening to this podcast there,

1173
01:05:48,640 --> 01:05:51,040
Speaker 1: if they're gonna buy some kind of land purchase, if

1174
01:05:51,040 --> 01:05:53,360
Speaker 1: they're gonna land purchase, it is probably gonna be for

1175
01:05:53,440 --> 01:05:57,160
Speaker 1: some kind of recreational UM, thing like deer hunting. And

1176
01:05:57,240 --> 01:06:00,760
Speaker 1: so most of folks that are managing land have that

1177
01:06:00,800 --> 01:06:04,800
Speaker 1: in mind as a top um, as a top of

1178
01:06:04,800 --> 01:06:07,240
Speaker 1: reason they're doing any kind of work on the farm. UM.

1179
01:06:07,280 --> 01:06:09,920
Speaker 1: And so someone listening to this now when they're thinking

1180
01:06:09,960 --> 01:06:12,640
Speaker 1: about the changes they're gonna make to their property, the

1181
01:06:12,680 --> 01:06:15,360
Speaker 1: improvements they're gonna make to their property, the projects, and

1182
01:06:15,360 --> 01:06:18,920
Speaker 1: the money they're gonna invest into it, usually deer or

1183
01:06:18,960 --> 01:06:22,240
Speaker 1: whatever species they're hunting, or whatever the activity is, UM,

1184
01:06:22,280 --> 01:06:24,880
Speaker 1: that's gonna be top of mind. So when when someone

1185
01:06:25,000 --> 01:06:30,400
Speaker 1: hears about properly managing a forest, regenerating oaks, UM, you

1186
01:06:30,600 --> 01:06:32,400
Speaker 1: didn't mention it here, but I know something you think

1187
01:06:32,440 --> 01:06:36,080
Speaker 1: about is is dealing with invasive species, or trying to

1188
01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:40,280
Speaker 1: prioritize native species, um balancing deer herds or the habitat

1189
01:06:40,320 --> 01:06:44,000
Speaker 1: all that kind of stuff. Someone might say, well, that's

1190
01:06:44,120 --> 01:06:48,000
Speaker 1: just sounds like distractions from more dear or bigger deer

1191
01:06:48,120 --> 01:06:53,040
Speaker 1: or something like that. Ah, why do all those things

1192
01:06:53,320 --> 01:06:57,400
Speaker 1: matter to you? I guess? And and then maybe why

1193
01:06:57,520 --> 01:07:00,400
Speaker 1: might it matter for other people? This kind at this,

1194
01:07:00,400 --> 01:07:04,240
Speaker 1: this this balanced approach that you seem to be taking. Yeah, man,

1195
01:07:04,320 --> 01:07:08,360
Speaker 1: that's you just said the word balanced approach. All right. So,

1196
01:07:08,480 --> 01:07:11,680
Speaker 1: first of all, if you were to be in Wisconsin

1197
01:07:11,760 --> 01:07:13,959
Speaker 1: and and um I would, I'm gonna put a plug

1198
01:07:14,000 --> 01:07:16,880
Speaker 1: in for this. It's called the Deer Management Assistant Program

1199
01:07:17,040 --> 01:07:19,600
Speaker 1: that is also through the Department of Natural Resources. So

1200
01:07:19,680 --> 01:07:26,439
Speaker 1: a landowner can contact Bob Knack at the at the

1201
01:07:26,480 --> 01:07:29,600
Speaker 1: Department Natural Resources or any of the biologists and they'll

1202
01:07:29,640 --> 01:07:32,000
Speaker 1: help them get involved. Landowners get involved with a thing

1203
01:07:32,000 --> 01:07:36,360
Speaker 1: called the d MAP program Deer Management Assistant Program. And uh,

1204
01:07:36,760 --> 01:07:39,280
Speaker 1: because of course that's the gateway drug, right. I mean

1205
01:07:39,320 --> 01:07:42,520
Speaker 1: that you're exactly right, that's the that's the a lot

1206
01:07:42,560 --> 01:07:46,480
Speaker 1: of the reasons people by people from away, because as

1207
01:07:46,520 --> 01:07:51,280
Speaker 1: we fondly call them, um by property is for for

1208
01:07:51,480 --> 01:07:55,240
Speaker 1: hunting and recreation specifically um white tailed deer. And it's

1209
01:07:55,240 --> 01:07:56,760
Speaker 1: been a blessing and a curse. And man, we can

1210
01:07:56,800 --> 01:08:00,960
Speaker 1: go down that that rabbit hole long ways, what the

1211
01:08:01,040 --> 01:08:04,000
Speaker 1: why of it is. Here's one of the smart things

1212
01:08:04,000 --> 01:08:07,920
Speaker 1: that Mike Finley also said to me. Good forest management

1213
01:08:08,120 --> 01:08:13,520
Speaker 1: is good. Wildlife habitat management is good, Dear, Dear, habitat management.

1214
01:08:13,800 --> 01:08:16,680
Speaker 1: My biggest challenge on that place, on that part of

1215
01:08:16,720 --> 01:08:20,360
Speaker 1: the farm where we are um harvest, where we harvested

1216
01:08:20,360 --> 01:08:24,400
Speaker 1: those big oaks and are regenerating oak is keeping a

1217
01:08:24,479 --> 01:08:28,320
Speaker 1: balanced balance with everything right that we want. From a

1218
01:08:28,320 --> 01:08:30,760
Speaker 1: financial standpoint, we want those oaks to come back from

1219
01:08:30,760 --> 01:08:34,760
Speaker 1: a from a long term environmental standpoint and ecosystem standpoint,

1220
01:08:34,760 --> 01:08:36,559
Speaker 1: we want those oaks. We want oaks to come back

1221
01:08:36,560 --> 01:08:38,719
Speaker 1: here because it's something we're losing in the driftless area.

1222
01:08:38,960 --> 01:08:43,000
Speaker 1: The problem is, Dear, as you know, dear love white

1223
01:08:43,000 --> 01:08:47,240
Speaker 1: oak acorns, and they really love to eat white oak acorns,

1224
01:08:47,240 --> 01:08:50,960
Speaker 1: and they really loved to browse on red oak uh brows.

1225
01:08:51,400 --> 01:08:54,519
Speaker 1: So I've had experiences where the deer just wiped down

1226
01:08:54,720 --> 01:08:58,800
Speaker 1: uh the oaks. Album we planted them in rows um

1227
01:08:59,640 --> 01:09:03,160
Speaker 1: a small out, but with this natural regeneration. There's you know,

1228
01:09:03,160 --> 01:09:08,120
Speaker 1: there's a lot more of it. Um that work is

1229
01:09:08,479 --> 01:09:11,960
Speaker 1: I mean, it's like, dear Changrila up there. Um, I

1230
01:09:12,000 --> 01:09:13,519
Speaker 1: know I sent you and I posted a picture of

1231
01:09:13,560 --> 01:09:16,839
Speaker 1: the nice bluck that I shot up there this year. Uh.

1232
01:09:17,200 --> 01:09:20,400
Speaker 1: It's it's a tough place to hunt, but it makes

1233
01:09:20,439 --> 01:09:22,519
Speaker 1: you think about, Okay, well how am I gonna hunt this?

1234
01:09:23,160 --> 01:09:25,519
Speaker 1: So I'm up there deer hunting mark and I'm looking

1235
01:09:25,560 --> 01:09:28,080
Speaker 1: at it like, okay, well we've got good regent. It

1236
01:09:28,160 --> 01:09:30,320
Speaker 1: looks like, yeah, we've got a lot of underbrush. Who

1237
01:09:30,360 --> 01:09:35,240
Speaker 1: I've got some invasives over there. Um. I'm not solely

1238
01:09:35,280 --> 01:09:38,519
Speaker 1: focused on on on deer hunting, but I know you

1239
01:09:38,600 --> 01:09:40,599
Speaker 1: have these thoughts too when you're up in the stand,

1240
01:09:40,680 --> 01:09:42,639
Speaker 1: especially now in the back. For you, in the property

1241
01:09:42,680 --> 01:09:45,680
Speaker 1: that you're you're developing, it's like you're I mean you're

1242
01:09:45,680 --> 01:09:47,960
Speaker 1: sitting in the stand and you're you're not just like, oh,

1243
01:09:47,960 --> 01:09:49,800
Speaker 1: win's of deer gonna appear, wins and you're gonna appear.

1244
01:09:49,840 --> 01:09:52,479
Speaker 1: You're thinking about a lot of different things, and so

1245
01:09:52,560 --> 01:09:56,120
Speaker 1: you're looking at that property from that perspective, Um, what

1246
01:09:56,240 --> 01:09:58,200
Speaker 1: else can I do with this property? Because you know,

1247
01:09:58,320 --> 01:10:01,880
Speaker 1: quite honestly, you know, dear, dear, you know it's fun,

1248
01:10:02,400 --> 01:10:06,000
Speaker 1: and I know you're you think it's uh well, I mean,

1249
01:10:06,040 --> 01:10:08,280
Speaker 1: you and I both have an obsession with deer, but

1250
01:10:08,640 --> 01:10:10,080
Speaker 1: you spend a hell of a lot more time at

1251
01:10:10,080 --> 01:10:11,600
Speaker 1: it than I do. I mean, because you know that

1252
01:10:11,600 --> 01:10:15,880
Speaker 1: whole bow hunting thing, Um, it is a thing man.

1253
01:10:16,360 --> 01:10:18,559
Speaker 1: You know, as a farm kid growing up, you know,

1254
01:10:18,840 --> 01:10:21,080
Speaker 1: you know what I always say, we I thought that

1255
01:10:21,120 --> 01:10:23,080
Speaker 1: bo hunt was for people who didn't have enough to do,

1256
01:10:23,560 --> 01:10:27,680
Speaker 1: and um, it's that is sort of the case if

1257
01:10:27,720 --> 01:10:29,800
Speaker 1: you're a farmer. I know plenty of farmers who do

1258
01:10:29,840 --> 01:10:31,240
Speaker 1: a little bit of gun hunting, but they don't do

1259
01:10:31,240 --> 01:10:35,120
Speaker 1: any bow hunting at all, and because they just they

1260
01:10:35,160 --> 01:10:38,840
Speaker 1: don't have time for it. Um and uh, I find

1261
01:10:38,880 --> 01:10:40,560
Speaker 1: that to be you know, I find that to be

1262
01:10:40,600 --> 01:10:43,040
Speaker 1: a really interesting thing since bow hunting has become such

1263
01:10:43,080 --> 01:10:45,280
Speaker 1: a big part of our white tail pursuit. Nobody both

1264
01:10:45,320 --> 01:10:47,400
Speaker 1: hunted around here when I was a kid. Nobody did.

1265
01:10:48,120 --> 01:10:50,519
Speaker 1: Um it was gun hunting for nine days, and of

1266
01:10:50,520 --> 01:10:52,160
Speaker 1: course we didn't have that many deer. But you know,

1267
01:10:52,240 --> 01:10:55,760
Speaker 1: so that's a that's a whole that's a whole another discussion.

1268
01:10:56,040 --> 01:10:59,639
Speaker 1: But the turkeys you know if you want. I mean

1269
01:10:59,760 --> 01:11:02,759
Speaker 1: we're about to about to have turkey season here and

1270
01:11:02,760 --> 01:11:07,760
Speaker 1: and turkey hunting here. Good management is you know, a

1271
01:11:07,760 --> 01:11:11,600
Speaker 1: good good forest management, good habitat management is good for

1272
01:11:11,640 --> 01:11:15,439
Speaker 1: those animals as well. Um. And then as you start

1273
01:11:15,479 --> 01:11:18,639
Speaker 1: to think about all of that, you know, songbirds benefit

1274
01:11:18,720 --> 01:11:22,240
Speaker 1: from it. Um if you're doing um, I've kind of

1275
01:11:22,240 --> 01:11:24,519
Speaker 1: gotten away from food plats, which you know is a

1276
01:11:24,520 --> 01:11:27,720
Speaker 1: different discussion, but I've done pollinator habitat. And what I

1277
01:11:27,720 --> 01:11:32,280
Speaker 1: found about pollinator habitat it's good deer cover and um

1278
01:11:33,479 --> 01:11:38,040
Speaker 1: uh it's also great for you know, for for honey

1279
01:11:38,040 --> 01:11:42,040
Speaker 1: bees and hummingbirds and our other pollinators and and it's

1280
01:11:42,439 --> 01:11:47,479
Speaker 1: aesthetically pleasing. Um. So if you're just taking a walk, um,

1281
01:11:47,880 --> 01:11:49,559
Speaker 1: which my wife likes to do. She's not much of

1282
01:11:49,560 --> 01:11:51,439
Speaker 1: a hunter, but she loves to take a walk. And

1283
01:11:51,439 --> 01:11:53,840
Speaker 1: and so it's you know, it's just it's a beautiful thing.

1284
01:11:54,200 --> 01:11:59,760
Speaker 1: A water feature, you know, like keeping your stream um uh,

1285
01:11:59,800 --> 01:12:01,800
Speaker 1: you know, keeping your stream banks up, and you know,

1286
01:12:01,880 --> 01:12:04,760
Speaker 1: working through programs like that, Well that's a lot more

1287
01:12:04,760 --> 01:12:07,960
Speaker 1: aesthetically pleasing and attractive to someone who may not be

1288
01:12:08,640 --> 01:12:12,679
Speaker 1: um a hunter, um, but who is interested in going

1289
01:12:12,800 --> 01:12:18,639
Speaker 1: for a walk, and you know, and and a recreational user. Um.

1290
01:12:18,680 --> 01:12:20,680
Speaker 1: To me, it just makes sense. I mean, and and

1291
01:12:20,720 --> 01:12:25,960
Speaker 1: balancing all of those things is important. UM. And you know,

1292
01:12:26,479 --> 01:12:28,280
Speaker 1: you and I might disagree a little bit about this

1293
01:12:28,320 --> 01:12:30,640
Speaker 1: part of white tailed You the damn things will live anywhere.

1294
01:12:32,040 --> 01:12:34,120
Speaker 1: You know, maybe a big giant buck isn't gonna live

1295
01:12:34,120 --> 01:12:37,720
Speaker 1: just anywhere. But um, there they, along with coyotes, are

1296
01:12:37,720 --> 01:12:41,559
Speaker 1: some of the most adaptable creatures out there. UM. I

1297
01:12:42,400 --> 01:12:44,360
Speaker 1: it's a it's an odd position to be in, man,

1298
01:12:44,400 --> 01:12:46,880
Speaker 1: but I'm in a position where I'm trying to discourage

1299
01:12:46,920 --> 01:12:50,320
Speaker 1: dear more than i am trying to encourage them. UM.

1300
01:12:50,360 --> 01:12:52,920
Speaker 1: And I think that especially in our down here in

1301
01:12:52,960 --> 01:12:58,360
Speaker 1: southwest Wisconsin that um that because we have so much

1302
01:12:58,439 --> 01:13:02,160
Speaker 1: deer habitat um and we have so many deer um,

1303
01:13:02,200 --> 01:13:03,760
Speaker 1: and we have a you know, we have a kind

1304
01:13:03,760 --> 01:13:07,120
Speaker 1: of the opposite problem. Now. UM. Part of this d

1305
01:13:07,320 --> 01:13:11,680
Speaker 1: MAP program management assistance program is to understand you know,

1306
01:13:11,800 --> 01:13:17,320
Speaker 1: dear biology, um, uh, ecosystem, balance all of those sort

1307
01:13:17,320 --> 01:13:20,559
Speaker 1: of things. So UM, that's the why. I mean, there's

1308
01:13:20,600 --> 01:13:24,559
Speaker 1: a lot, there's a lot to it. UM. I'm working

1309
01:13:24,560 --> 01:13:27,280
Speaker 1: with a client with well he's not even client anymore.

1310
01:13:27,280 --> 01:13:30,360
Speaker 1: He's just become a friend because I'd like told him

1311
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:32,639
Speaker 1: to grow his wings, you know. Um, he's a really

1312
01:13:32,680 --> 01:13:36,759
Speaker 1: smart guy, hey, Chip. And he's a big Mark Kenyon

1313
01:13:36,760 --> 01:13:41,000
Speaker 1: guy by the way. Yeah, well yeah, he'll be listening

1314
01:13:41,040 --> 01:13:45,599
Speaker 1: for sure. Um And I mean had dinner with him

1315
01:13:45,640 --> 01:13:48,400
Speaker 1: the other night and afterwards sent him a whole list

1316
01:13:48,560 --> 01:13:53,160
Speaker 1: of context. He's he's someone who wants to learn and

1317
01:13:53,360 --> 01:13:58,920
Speaker 1: understand and develop his property, you know, with that wide view.

1318
01:13:59,479 --> 01:14:02,360
Speaker 1: And I kind of just sent him on his way

1319
01:14:02,400 --> 01:14:05,800
Speaker 1: the other night in terms of, you know, going to

1320
01:14:05,880 --> 01:14:08,040
Speaker 1: transition from being a client somebody who paid me to

1321
01:14:08,080 --> 01:14:09,600
Speaker 1: come out and spend some time with him on his

1322
01:14:09,680 --> 01:14:15,680
Speaker 1: property and talk about things in general. Um uh, I

1323
01:14:15,720 --> 01:14:20,639
Speaker 1: think that's way more interesting than for a landowner than um,

1324
01:14:20,760 --> 01:14:22,599
Speaker 1: I just I just want to do this for deer.

1325
01:14:22,640 --> 01:14:26,120
Speaker 1: I think you're finding that out, um that it's way

1326
01:14:26,120 --> 01:14:33,160
Speaker 1: more interesting and um it sort of hearkens back to um,

1327
01:14:35,320 --> 01:14:37,479
Speaker 1: you know, to the to the idea of it's just

1328
01:14:37,520 --> 01:14:40,559
Speaker 1: not about what you want right now. It's it's very

1329
01:14:40,640 --> 01:14:44,800
Speaker 1: much about what what has come before you and then

1330
01:14:44,840 --> 01:14:48,600
Speaker 1: what's going to be after you as well. Um. So

1331
01:14:48,760 --> 01:14:52,240
Speaker 1: that's a big part of the why so something you

1332
01:14:52,520 --> 01:14:56,240
Speaker 1: didn't really mention within there specifically, but that I know

1333
01:14:57,680 --> 01:15:01,080
Speaker 1: is another one of these pieces of this balanced approach

1334
01:15:01,720 --> 01:15:04,479
Speaker 1: that that I think there's a decent bit of debate

1335
01:15:04,520 --> 01:15:08,240
Speaker 1: about within the hunting community at least. Is this whole

1336
01:15:08,400 --> 01:15:13,439
Speaker 1: invasive versus native species um quandary when it comes to

1337
01:15:13,560 --> 01:15:20,000
Speaker 1: managing habitat. There's again, if if we're going from just

1338
01:15:20,120 --> 01:15:22,040
Speaker 1: I want more dear, bigger deer, and we're going to

1339
01:15:22,160 --> 01:15:24,439
Speaker 1: now thinking, Okay, I want to have a balanced approach

1340
01:15:24,479 --> 01:15:27,439
Speaker 1: to the ecosystem. I want to try to be a

1341
01:15:27,439 --> 01:15:29,640
Speaker 1: good steward for everything that's going on here on my

1342
01:15:29,760 --> 01:15:34,200
Speaker 1: forty acres or two acres or ten acres, whatever it is. UM.

1343
01:15:34,360 --> 01:15:36,959
Speaker 1: I think inevitably you'll eventually start thinking about this invasive

1344
01:15:37,120 --> 01:15:43,879
Speaker 1: versus native um topic. Some people I've talked to are saying, Hey,

1345
01:15:44,200 --> 01:15:48,160
Speaker 1: some of these invasive quote unquote invasive species UM. They'll say,

1346
01:15:48,240 --> 01:15:52,439
Speaker 1: are actually good dear habitat, or they're actually good bird habitat.

1347
01:15:52,560 --> 01:15:55,120
Speaker 1: They're actually doing good stuff. So why are you wasting

1348
01:15:55,120 --> 01:15:58,120
Speaker 1: your time taking them out when you're just reducing the

1349
01:15:58,200 --> 01:16:02,519
Speaker 1: quality of habitat for to stuff? UM? What what do

1350
01:16:02,520 --> 01:16:05,240
Speaker 1: you say to that? How do you go about prioritizing

1351
01:16:05,280 --> 01:16:07,720
Speaker 1: this kind of stuff. Is it is it should be

1352
01:16:07,720 --> 01:16:09,479
Speaker 1: a top priority, should it be? Well, if you have

1353
01:16:09,560 --> 01:16:12,200
Speaker 1: some extra time, nip away at some of this stuff.

1354
01:16:12,880 --> 01:16:14,479
Speaker 1: How do you how do you think about this? How

1355
01:16:14,520 --> 01:16:19,599
Speaker 1: should other people think about this? Well? Um, yeah, that's

1356
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:23,160
Speaker 1: that actually really is a great question, because the first

1357
01:16:23,160 --> 01:16:27,960
Speaker 1: thing I would say is non native versus native versus uh.

1358
01:16:28,200 --> 01:16:32,320
Speaker 1: Using the phrase invasive and invasive is obviously a detriment

1359
01:16:32,400 --> 01:16:35,080
Speaker 1: on the landscape or sounds like a detriment on the landscape.

1360
01:16:35,120 --> 01:16:37,599
Speaker 1: And when I when you say invasive to me, I

1361
01:16:37,640 --> 01:16:42,679
Speaker 1: think of um, garlic mustard, which is a herbaceous plant

1362
01:16:42,720 --> 01:16:47,160
Speaker 1: that we have growing like crazy in in um in

1363
01:16:47,200 --> 01:16:53,520
Speaker 1: our area. UM that chokes off you know, native herbaceous

1364
01:16:53,560 --> 01:16:59,120
Speaker 1: plans um Um multiplor a rose is another one. Um.

1365
01:16:59,160 --> 01:17:03,200
Speaker 1: Interestingly to flora rose was um. I don't remember whether

1366
01:17:03,240 --> 01:17:04,679
Speaker 1: you had that over there? You know you have buck

1367
01:17:04,720 --> 01:17:10,640
Speaker 1: thorn um and honeysuckle um. And and you're right, I

1368
01:17:10,640 --> 01:17:12,960
Speaker 1: mean multi floor let me use multi floor roses. Example

1369
01:17:13,040 --> 01:17:17,879
Speaker 1: was actually introduced by well, I understand it was introduced

1370
01:17:17,920 --> 01:17:22,000
Speaker 1: by the d n R. At least that's the the tail.

1371
01:17:22,080 --> 01:17:25,040
Speaker 1: It may have been. Um, you know farm agency folks

1372
01:17:25,680 --> 01:17:27,880
Speaker 1: UM as the quote unquote living fence. And if you've

1373
01:17:27,920 --> 01:17:30,360
Speaker 1: ever tried to walk through multi floor rose, you know

1374
01:17:30,439 --> 01:17:35,120
Speaker 1: why it was living fence. It's just nuts um and

1375
01:17:35,400 --> 01:17:40,519
Speaker 1: it provides UM a lot of UM, a lot of

1376
01:17:41,240 --> 01:17:44,840
Speaker 1: wildlife uh feed. The problem when it is is that

1377
01:17:44,920 --> 01:17:48,000
Speaker 1: it doesn't know how to stay in the fence row UM.

1378
01:17:48,080 --> 01:17:52,320
Speaker 1: You know, bird will it just spreads through the wild

1379
01:17:52,320 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 1: life and the birds spreading it. You know how many

1380
01:17:54,400 --> 01:17:57,680
Speaker 1: things get spread that way, right, UM, So you know

1381
01:17:57,760 --> 01:18:01,559
Speaker 1: that's one. Another is autumotive, which autumnlive is. It's a

1382
01:18:01,640 --> 01:18:06,200
Speaker 1: great food for birds UM. But again it doesn't it

1383
01:18:06,560 --> 01:18:11,000
Speaker 1: doesn't really UM mind its manners. You know, it'll spread anywhere,

1384
01:18:11,000 --> 01:18:14,720
Speaker 1: like in an open area. UM. And then UM have

1385
01:18:14,800 --> 01:18:18,840
Speaker 1: a detrimental effect on grass and and grasslands and and

1386
01:18:19,040 --> 01:18:22,480
Speaker 1: uh some of our other woody uh plants and outcompete

1387
01:18:22,520 --> 01:18:25,320
Speaker 1: some of our fringe plants, a lot of our our natives,

1388
01:18:25,400 --> 01:18:28,400
Speaker 1: you know, like Viburnum is a good one um uh,

1389
01:18:28,439 --> 01:18:32,200
Speaker 1: service berry, choke cherry, those things are all native fringe plants,

1390
01:18:32,200 --> 01:18:35,760
Speaker 1: but they don't they don't always compete dogwood. Dogwood always

1391
01:18:35,800 --> 01:18:38,600
Speaker 1: competes pretty well, but or generally competes pretty well, but

1392
01:18:38,640 --> 01:18:42,120
Speaker 1: they don't compete as well with these things like autum alive,

1393
01:18:42,160 --> 01:18:43,479
Speaker 1: which you know is one of the first things to

1394
01:18:43,520 --> 01:18:45,479
Speaker 1: green up and one of the last ones to lose

1395
01:18:45,520 --> 01:18:49,400
Speaker 1: its leaves, and that's what those invasives tend to do. UM.

1396
01:18:49,439 --> 01:18:54,400
Speaker 1: But you're right, there is benefit to them, UM yet

1397
01:18:54,439 --> 01:18:58,679
Speaker 1: to find other than the occasional salad that um. Um

1398
01:18:58,720 --> 01:19:02,920
Speaker 1: what garlic mustard is do one for us. But so

1399
01:19:03,040 --> 01:19:08,160
Speaker 1: invasive versus h non native um. Yeah, you know plant

1400
01:19:08,240 --> 01:19:10,160
Speaker 1: ample trees. I mean you think about all the things

1401
01:19:10,160 --> 01:19:13,360
Speaker 1: that are quote unquote non natives. UM. So I think

1402
01:19:13,400 --> 01:19:16,360
Speaker 1: we need to differentiate between between those things. And then

1403
01:19:16,360 --> 01:19:17,760
Speaker 1: the other part of it is when you do have

1404
01:19:17,840 --> 01:19:22,840
Speaker 1: an invasive species like you've got glossy buck tharn honeysuckle.

1405
01:19:23,080 --> 01:19:29,920
Speaker 1: I got my notes here, which are yeah, automotive um

1406
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:32,040
Speaker 1: and and yeah, I mean great bood food and all that.

1407
01:19:32,120 --> 01:19:34,280
Speaker 1: In fact that used to be automotive used to be

1408
01:19:34,360 --> 01:19:37,320
Speaker 1: a part of the UM. I think it was called

1409
01:19:37,320 --> 01:19:41,639
Speaker 1: the quail package wildlife package. It was something that was planted.

1410
01:19:41,680 --> 01:19:44,519
Speaker 1: I had a managed a property where the stuff was

1411
01:19:44,560 --> 01:19:47,439
Speaker 1: just it was in rows along the edges of other

1412
01:19:47,560 --> 01:19:54,080
Speaker 1: planted areas. UM. And so control right management that I mean,

1413
01:19:54,080 --> 01:19:56,040
Speaker 1: it's the heavy hand of man. I mean, one thing

1414
01:19:56,080 --> 01:19:59,080
Speaker 1: that Michigan and Wisconsin and most of the Midwest has

1415
01:19:59,080 --> 01:20:02,559
Speaker 1: in common is we start talking about things like natural

1416
01:20:03,600 --> 01:20:07,240
Speaker 1: um age structure of deer and you know, trying to

1417
01:20:07,240 --> 01:20:08,960
Speaker 1: achieve that kind of things like come on, I mean,

1418
01:20:08,960 --> 01:20:12,000
Speaker 1: we're to a degree, what is natural? Um, there's this

1419
01:20:12,080 --> 01:20:19,240
Speaker 1: is an unnatural uh, unnatural landscape. We've we've we've um.

1420
01:20:19,320 --> 01:20:21,479
Speaker 1: You know, everything is so heavily manipulated. The reason we

1421
01:20:21,560 --> 01:20:24,280
Speaker 1: have so many deer in southwest Wisconsin is because it's

1422
01:20:24,320 --> 01:20:30,879
Speaker 1: a heavily manipulated landscape of our Um County is considered

1423
01:20:30,960 --> 01:20:35,320
Speaker 1: deer habitat and a lot of that is agricultural land UM.

1424
01:20:35,400 --> 01:20:37,360
Speaker 1: And you know, so you've got this sort of perfect

1425
01:20:37,360 --> 01:20:40,160
Speaker 1: storm of all of these these things and UM, you

1426
01:20:40,200 --> 01:20:44,639
Speaker 1: know it's it's we have habitat, we have we have agriculture. UM.

1427
01:20:44,680 --> 01:20:47,160
Speaker 1: There is that browse and all of that. But it's

1428
01:20:47,160 --> 01:20:49,040
Speaker 1: important to find a balance in there that you know,

1429
01:20:49,080 --> 01:20:50,920
Speaker 1: you said that word right at the beginning when you're

1430
01:20:50,920 --> 01:20:53,280
Speaker 1: asking this question. To find a balance of all of it.

1431
01:20:53,560 --> 01:20:56,400
Speaker 1: You don't want to have just multi floor rose or

1432
01:20:56,560 --> 01:21:01,120
Speaker 1: autumn olive or glassy buckthorn or honey suckle, all those things.

1433
01:21:01,439 --> 01:21:05,439
Speaker 1: You're not going to eradicate them. Eradication once these things

1434
01:21:05,520 --> 01:21:08,400
Speaker 1: are established, even like I had to go back to

1435
01:21:08,800 --> 01:21:13,080
Speaker 1: chronic wasting disease right now. But um, you know, eighteen

1436
01:21:13,160 --> 01:21:15,800
Speaker 1: years ago when they started talking about eradication of the

1437
01:21:15,880 --> 01:21:18,360
Speaker 1: disease in Wisconsin, that was the thing that kind of

1438
01:21:18,400 --> 01:21:21,040
Speaker 1: got the hair back, the hair on the back of hunters.

1439
01:21:21,160 --> 01:21:23,360
Speaker 1: What do you mean we're gonna eradicate the disease in order?

1440
01:21:23,680 --> 01:21:24,880
Speaker 1: How do you do that? Well, you're gonna have to

1441
01:21:24,880 --> 01:21:28,360
Speaker 1: eradicate the deer And that was what people got concerned about.

1442
01:21:28,840 --> 01:21:33,880
Speaker 1: So um in the business, I'm generally and we talked

1443
01:21:33,920 --> 01:21:37,320
Speaker 1: about something called integrated pest management. So you try to

1444
01:21:37,360 --> 01:21:40,640
Speaker 1: do as much as you can without it be to

1445
01:21:41,080 --> 01:21:45,600
Speaker 1: control something without it becoming sort of an obsession to

1446
01:21:45,600 --> 01:21:48,400
Speaker 1: get rid of all of it unless there is something

1447
01:21:48,400 --> 01:21:51,160
Speaker 1: that you can You know, there are times when there

1448
01:21:51,200 --> 01:21:53,519
Speaker 1: are things that you can you you may be able

1449
01:21:53,520 --> 01:21:56,880
Speaker 1: to eliminate. The problem with most of the Midwest is

1450
01:21:57,479 --> 01:21:59,599
Speaker 1: you may eliminate it on your property, but if your

1451
01:21:59,640 --> 01:22:02,040
Speaker 1: neighbor didn't, you're gonna get it back anyway. So then

1452
01:22:02,040 --> 01:22:06,120
Speaker 1: it becomes a control measure, and that's really what land management.

1453
01:22:06,200 --> 01:22:08,840
Speaker 1: That's a big part of land management. And I would say,

1454
01:22:09,040 --> 01:22:11,080
Speaker 1: you know, some people might say, well, that's unfortunate, and

1455
01:22:11,120 --> 01:22:14,160
Speaker 1: I'm like, not necessarily, because as you're you pointed out,

1456
01:22:14,200 --> 01:22:17,480
Speaker 1: and as other people have pointed out, there's some positive

1457
01:22:17,520 --> 01:22:22,360
Speaker 1: benefit to this, to this stuff, um canary reed grass,

1458
01:22:22,400 --> 01:22:25,040
Speaker 1: which is another one it seemed like you had over

1459
01:22:25,080 --> 01:22:28,679
Speaker 1: there in that bottom. I mean, yeah, it's an invasive

1460
01:22:28,680 --> 01:22:32,320
Speaker 1: species and it's eliminating, you know, it's excluding some of

1461
01:22:32,320 --> 01:22:34,439
Speaker 1: our other things. But oh my gosh, is that great

1462
01:22:34,439 --> 01:22:38,599
Speaker 1: deer cover? Huh so? And then it kind of goes

1463
01:22:38,640 --> 01:22:42,719
Speaker 1: back to that word again. Balance. You you talked about

1464
01:22:42,760 --> 01:22:44,080
Speaker 1: something that this is going to be a little bit

1465
01:22:44,080 --> 01:22:47,800
Speaker 1: of a sidetrack, but I gotta pick your brain on

1466
01:22:47,920 --> 01:22:52,559
Speaker 1: something that I personally battle with a little bit. Or

1467
01:22:52,560 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 1: I hear other folks talking about this, and I I

1468
01:22:55,520 --> 01:22:58,960
Speaker 1: get a little bit frustrated because I think this topic

1469
01:22:59,000 --> 01:23:04,040
Speaker 1: of balance is needed, or at least from my perspective. Um,

1470
01:23:04,080 --> 01:23:11,439
Speaker 1: you've got two ideals or ideas around managing land, and

1471
01:23:11,600 --> 01:23:13,840
Speaker 1: let's let's take a step back and talk more around

1472
01:23:13,880 --> 01:23:16,479
Speaker 1: the public land debate or the public land, because this

1473
01:23:16,600 --> 01:23:19,040
Speaker 1: debate seems to be more focused on public land, where

1474
01:23:19,080 --> 01:23:25,519
Speaker 1: there's some folks that want to protect for or managed

1475
01:23:25,520 --> 01:23:27,960
Speaker 1: for wilderness. You talked about trying to go back to

1476
01:23:27,960 --> 01:23:32,840
Speaker 1: a natural state and how Um, there's this idea that

1477
01:23:32,920 --> 01:23:35,880
Speaker 1: let's just leave it. Let's let's stop messing around with it.

1478
01:23:36,080 --> 01:23:38,519
Speaker 1: Let's just step back and let nature do what nature does.

1479
01:23:38,600 --> 01:23:44,720
Speaker 1: Let's preserve some part of our landscape as wilderness. Quote unquote. UM.

1480
01:23:44,840 --> 01:23:48,080
Speaker 1: So there's that idea, and then there's the other group,

1481
01:23:48,280 --> 01:23:51,000
Speaker 1: another idea that says, no, we have to manage. Everything

1482
01:23:51,040 --> 01:23:53,760
Speaker 1: is already manipulated. We got to manage. We have to

1483
01:23:53,800 --> 01:23:55,759
Speaker 1: go and we have to cut down the trees because

1484
01:23:56,360 --> 01:23:58,040
Speaker 1: you know, we need to get more sun light on

1485
01:23:58,080 --> 01:24:00,799
Speaker 1: the ground and that's better for food, for wildlife and whatnot.

1486
01:24:00,880 --> 01:24:02,400
Speaker 1: And then the other group will say, well, no, we

1487
01:24:02,439 --> 01:24:04,920
Speaker 1: need to leave some of this timber alone because we

1488
01:24:05,000 --> 01:24:07,320
Speaker 1: need old growth timber. And when we cut down all

1489
01:24:07,320 --> 01:24:11,439
Speaker 1: these things were ruining habitat for other animals, and we're

1490
01:24:11,439 --> 01:24:14,799
Speaker 1: destroying certain types of habitats now that are so rare. Um,

1491
01:24:15,000 --> 01:24:17,320
Speaker 1: can't we just let stuff go? Sometimes? So there's these

1492
01:24:17,320 --> 01:24:24,200
Speaker 1: competing philosophies within UM habitat management on our public lands,

1493
01:24:24,640 --> 01:24:26,720
Speaker 1: and and you can look at someone who I know

1494
01:24:26,720 --> 01:24:29,400
Speaker 1: who has influenced you a lot, like Elder Leopold, and

1495
01:24:29,439 --> 01:24:32,680
Speaker 1: see a dichotomy even within him where he was one

1496
01:24:32,680 --> 01:24:35,240
Speaker 1: of the He was one of the very first people

1497
01:24:35,280 --> 01:24:39,760
Speaker 1: that ever advocated for actual wilderness protection within the within

1498
01:24:39,800 --> 01:24:42,639
Speaker 1: the United States public land system. Back in the twenties.

1499
01:24:42,680 --> 01:24:45,519
Speaker 1: He was writing articles saying, Hey, you know what, I understand.

1500
01:24:45,600 --> 01:24:47,240
Speaker 1: We want to do all these different things, but there's

1501
01:24:47,280 --> 01:24:51,320
Speaker 1: some places we should leave untrammeled. We shouldn't put roads there,

1502
01:24:51,360 --> 01:24:54,240
Speaker 1: we shouldn't log, we shouldn't do this stuff. You need

1503
01:24:54,280 --> 01:24:57,360
Speaker 1: to have some of this wild, untouched, primitive space. Still

1504
01:24:58,160 --> 01:25:00,760
Speaker 1: he said that, but then he also, decades later it

1505
01:25:00,840 --> 01:25:03,920
Speaker 1: was also advocating for all sorts of heavy I don't

1506
01:25:03,960 --> 01:25:07,360
Speaker 1: want to say heavy handed, but involved human management of

1507
01:25:07,400 --> 01:25:11,639
Speaker 1: wildlife populations and landscapes. So he kind of embodied these

1508
01:25:11,720 --> 01:25:19,160
Speaker 1: two different approaches to managing an area of landscape a habitat.

1509
01:25:19,720 --> 01:25:23,600
Speaker 1: Um I personally, when I like struggle with this or

1510
01:25:23,640 --> 01:25:25,360
Speaker 1: look at this, I see a place and a need

1511
01:25:25,439 --> 01:25:33,720
Speaker 1: for both. Um I really am strongly impacted. Or I

1512
01:25:33,760 --> 01:25:39,280
Speaker 1: don't say this, but I see a real need for wilderness. Um,

1513
01:25:39,320 --> 01:25:41,839
Speaker 1: I'm drawn to it. I find some kind of solace

1514
01:25:41,920 --> 01:25:44,040
Speaker 1: in that we still have some places that are at

1515
01:25:44,080 --> 01:25:49,000
Speaker 1: least less manipulated and relatively more primitive than other places.

1516
01:25:49,040 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 1: I see that need. I also see the need for

1517
01:25:51,760 --> 01:25:55,719
Speaker 1: management and a lot of landscapes too. I My hope

1518
01:25:55,760 --> 01:25:57,840
Speaker 1: is thoughts that we should have both in in the

1519
01:25:57,920 --> 01:26:00,840
Speaker 1: right places and in the right ways. But I constantly

1520
01:26:00,840 --> 01:26:04,320
Speaker 1: find myself going back and forth and debating how and

1521
01:26:04,360 --> 01:26:08,280
Speaker 1: why and when and where. Um, I'm rambling now, Doug,

1522
01:26:08,280 --> 01:26:11,519
Speaker 1: that's a bunch of my thoughts. What where's your head

1523
01:26:11,560 --> 01:26:17,400
Speaker 1: at on this whole issue? Well? I like everything you

1524
01:26:17,640 --> 01:26:22,760
Speaker 1: just said, and uh you address some of that in

1525
01:26:22,800 --> 01:26:29,240
Speaker 1: the book too, man, and uh, which is really you

1526
01:26:29,280 --> 01:26:32,040
Speaker 1: know again, I was like, there's just like this part

1527
01:26:32,120 --> 01:26:34,400
Speaker 1: of you that's like this old soul that I just

1528
01:26:34,479 --> 01:26:38,920
Speaker 1: really dig. Um. Yeah, I mean that's you know, philosophically,

1529
01:26:38,920 --> 01:26:43,479
Speaker 1: I like I like that that a lot. And I

1530
01:26:43,520 --> 01:26:47,240
Speaker 1: agree with everything you said. Leopold exactly is is I mean,

1531
01:26:47,280 --> 01:26:50,439
Speaker 1: he's sort of is. We can just look Leopold right,

1532
01:26:50,800 --> 01:26:54,400
Speaker 1: what would Eldo do? Um? You know, at the same

1533
01:26:54,439 --> 01:27:00,240
Speaker 1: time that he was advocating for um, Uh, you know,

1534
01:27:00,600 --> 01:27:04,519
Speaker 1: wilderness and and and wildlife management and you know all

1535
01:27:04,560 --> 01:27:07,400
Speaker 1: of these things. He was also buying his own land

1536
01:27:07,479 --> 01:27:09,800
Speaker 1: and doing work on that, and he had developed a

1537
01:27:10,040 --> 01:27:13,400
Speaker 1: relationship with a landowner named Ruben Paulson and had this

1538
01:27:13,479 --> 01:27:15,800
Speaker 1: thing started called the Riley Game Cooperative that I'd like

1539
01:27:15,840 --> 01:27:17,960
Speaker 1: to talk about more in a little bit, but it

1540
01:27:18,080 --> 01:27:22,000
Speaker 1: is all of those things. Um, let me get let

1541
01:27:22,040 --> 01:27:24,519
Speaker 1: me give you a four acre view of that. So

1542
01:27:24,680 --> 01:27:28,519
Speaker 1: when I was talking about our property, are are my

1543
01:27:28,600 --> 01:27:31,599
Speaker 1: family's farm, right, We've got four hundred acres two acres

1544
01:27:31,600 --> 01:27:35,639
Speaker 1: of its woods. We um did this shelterwood harvest, which

1545
01:27:35,640 --> 01:27:39,559
Speaker 1: is essentially a clear cut done in stages, and the

1546
01:27:39,600 --> 01:27:42,479
Speaker 1: ideas that you're regenerating oak and there's reasons for for that,

1547
01:27:42,560 --> 01:27:45,080
Speaker 1: no regeneration and that's a whole day lecture. We can

1548
01:27:45,280 --> 01:27:48,000
Speaker 1: go up there and hang out and take a look

1549
01:27:48,040 --> 01:27:51,280
Speaker 1: at it, and uh, it's really interesting. But at the

1550
01:27:51,280 --> 01:27:55,880
Speaker 1: same time, UM, we've got some what we're calling the

1551
01:27:55,960 --> 01:27:58,479
Speaker 1: legacy area on our farm where we're not gonna cut

1552
01:27:58,560 --> 01:28:02,439
Speaker 1: those trees. You know, if they fall over, they fall over. Um.

1553
01:28:02,680 --> 01:28:05,000
Speaker 1: And you know, if that tree was worth X amount

1554
01:28:05,000 --> 01:28:07,320
Speaker 1: of dollars, Yeah, well it's worth an x amount of

1555
01:28:08,640 --> 01:28:11,200
Speaker 1: legacy and wildlife habitat. And you know, because a big

1556
01:28:11,240 --> 01:28:15,000
Speaker 1: hollow you know, uh, big hollow tree is wildlife. And

1557
01:28:15,040 --> 01:28:17,000
Speaker 1: so when that's one of the cool things. Even in

1558
01:28:17,080 --> 01:28:20,799
Speaker 1: balancing and forest trees, you go through a timber harvest

1559
01:28:20,880 --> 01:28:22,800
Speaker 1: that I've been involved with at least a numby trees

1560
01:28:22,880 --> 01:28:25,200
Speaker 1: that has a big w on them, and every logger

1561
01:28:25,240 --> 01:28:27,760
Speaker 1: knows what that means. That's a wildlife tree. And yeah,

1562
01:28:27,800 --> 01:28:30,479
Speaker 1: that might be something that you you know, you just

1563
01:28:30,520 --> 01:28:32,599
Speaker 1: get out of the way to let more more young,

1564
01:28:32,920 --> 01:28:35,320
Speaker 1: straight trees that are gonna be boards and cords and

1565
01:28:35,360 --> 01:28:38,040
Speaker 1: we're gonna make good timber out of that. There's a

1566
01:28:38,080 --> 01:28:42,840
Speaker 1: place for all of it. Um. I think that on

1567
01:28:43,000 --> 01:28:45,960
Speaker 1: public land. So to take that on from a small

1568
01:28:46,000 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 1: perspective on private land and take to go to the

1569
01:28:48,280 --> 01:28:52,080
Speaker 1: private public land which you were talking about, um, you know,

1570
01:28:52,160 --> 01:28:54,640
Speaker 1: having spent time in in the uh some of the

1571
01:28:54,720 --> 01:28:58,360
Speaker 1: National Forest, Shawamigan National Forest and the Boundary Waters and

1572
01:28:59,320 --> 01:29:02,160
Speaker 1: um and then of course that fabulous trip that you

1573
01:29:02,200 --> 01:29:04,599
Speaker 1: and I got to go on for the river area

1574
01:29:04,640 --> 01:29:11,280
Speaker 1: of Alaska. Um. Um. If I guess this is where

1575
01:29:11,320 --> 01:29:15,680
Speaker 1: I'm at with that, the idea that there's wilderness out there,

1576
01:29:15,680 --> 01:29:17,559
Speaker 1: and maybe Steve has talked about this and maybe if

1577
01:29:17,560 --> 01:29:21,800
Speaker 1: I'm stealing his ideas or somebody else's, you know, Um,

1578
01:29:21,880 --> 01:29:26,840
Speaker 1: that's because I That's the most sincere form of flattery, right, UM,

1579
01:29:27,000 --> 01:29:30,760
Speaker 1: is that even if I can't ever get there, the

1580
01:29:30,880 --> 01:29:36,120
Speaker 1: idea that it's there is really important to me. Um.

1581
01:29:36,160 --> 01:29:38,479
Speaker 1: I was. I was talking with a guy who's selling

1582
01:29:38,520 --> 01:29:41,200
Speaker 1: these e bikes the other day and he's like, well,

1583
01:29:41,240 --> 01:29:43,920
Speaker 1: just think about the access that it's provide provides. And

1584
01:29:43,960 --> 01:29:48,320
Speaker 1: I'm just like, yeah, I get it. I understand what

1585
01:29:48,360 --> 01:29:50,080
Speaker 1: you're saying. And boy, that would be cool as hell

1586
01:29:50,160 --> 01:29:51,720
Speaker 1: for me to be able because I can't hike like

1587
01:29:51,840 --> 01:29:54,840
Speaker 1: I used to be able to hike. Um, Like, I won't.

1588
01:29:55,040 --> 01:29:57,120
Speaker 1: I won't. I won't hike back to the top of

1589
01:29:57,160 --> 01:30:00,400
Speaker 1: Mount Adams and Jefferson, Washington and the White mount If

1590
01:30:00,400 --> 01:30:02,240
Speaker 1: I go to the top of Mount Washington out and

1591
01:30:02,640 --> 01:30:05,000
Speaker 1: uh in the White Mountains again. If I go to

1592
01:30:05,040 --> 01:30:07,639
Speaker 1: the top of Mount Washington and driving down car up there,

1593
01:30:07,640 --> 01:30:11,000
Speaker 1: because you can do that maybe train, yeah, or the

1594
01:30:11,040 --> 01:30:13,200
Speaker 1: train and run across the ridges. You can do that,

1595
01:30:13,800 --> 01:30:17,280
Speaker 1: but there's nothing like climbing up there yourself. And I

1596
01:30:17,280 --> 01:30:20,320
Speaker 1: did that when I was a younger man, and um, um,

1597
01:30:20,400 --> 01:30:21,920
Speaker 1: I think I could probably get up there again. I

1598
01:30:21,920 --> 01:30:23,840
Speaker 1: don't have to stop a little more often, but I

1599
01:30:23,960 --> 01:30:28,240
Speaker 1: take a road trip. We didn't do that someday you go. Um,

1600
01:30:28,320 --> 01:30:31,720
Speaker 1: And those are things that I got to do because

1601
01:30:32,760 --> 01:30:37,600
Speaker 1: people like Leopold and Roosevelt and and uh, you know

1602
01:30:37,600 --> 01:30:40,040
Speaker 1: whoever else you want. The list is the great conservations

1603
01:30:40,120 --> 01:30:44,360
Speaker 1: of our of our country. Um, preserve them. And and

1604
01:30:44,400 --> 01:30:47,280
Speaker 1: that kind of goes back to that I got to

1605
01:30:47,320 --> 01:30:50,040
Speaker 1: do it, somebody else should get to And then even

1606
01:30:50,200 --> 01:30:52,120
Speaker 1: if I never make it back to the forty mile

1607
01:30:52,280 --> 01:30:57,960
Speaker 1: River area again, um, just knowing that that is still there. Um,

1608
01:30:58,000 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 1: you know, it is really important. So I think they're

1609
01:31:00,560 --> 01:31:03,400
Speaker 1: room for all of it. Um. It's okay to have

1610
01:31:03,520 --> 01:31:07,240
Speaker 1: old growth trees and let some of them just go

1611
01:31:07,479 --> 01:31:11,200
Speaker 1: and and and have areas preserve. Preservation is a tough

1612
01:31:11,240 --> 01:31:14,160
Speaker 1: word sometimes, right, but let it go and see what

1613
01:31:14,280 --> 01:31:17,639
Speaker 1: nature does well. You also monitor it, like in these

1614
01:31:17,680 --> 01:31:20,360
Speaker 1: areas on the farm where we're letting the Legacy series.

1615
01:31:20,400 --> 01:31:22,760
Speaker 1: We're letting. It doesn't mean I'm letting invasive species go

1616
01:31:22,920 --> 01:31:26,080
Speaker 1: nuts in there. Um, that's the kind of work that

1617
01:31:26,120 --> 01:31:28,680
Speaker 1: I'm I'm doing that. But we're leaving there. You know,

1618
01:31:28,720 --> 01:31:30,760
Speaker 1: we're leaving them big old oaks in there and as

1619
01:31:30,800 --> 01:31:35,200
Speaker 1: big maples and um and just letting them have their

1620
01:31:35,680 --> 01:31:38,040
Speaker 1: you know, let them go into their natural end. So

1621
01:31:38,080 --> 01:31:40,920
Speaker 1: there again it kind of goes back to that balance. Um,

1622
01:31:40,960 --> 01:31:47,120
Speaker 1: it's easier with bigger acreage. UM. Uh, you know, thousands

1623
01:31:47,160 --> 01:31:49,799
Speaker 1: and tens of thousands of hundreds of thousands of acres

1624
01:31:49,840 --> 01:31:52,120
Speaker 1: of public land. And then some of it is so

1625
01:31:52,240 --> 01:31:54,320
Speaker 1: why hasn't it been developed? Well, I mean they think

1626
01:31:54,360 --> 01:31:57,960
Speaker 1: about like that forty mile river area. Um, how how

1627
01:31:57,960 --> 01:31:59,360
Speaker 1: the hell would you get there to do it? To

1628
01:31:59,680 --> 01:32:02,320
Speaker 1: to to quote unquote development. And I realized, well, wait

1629
01:32:02,360 --> 01:32:05,479
Speaker 1: a minute, we were landing that short flight that we

1630
01:32:05,800 --> 01:32:07,320
Speaker 1: I don't know whether you took that one or not,

1631
01:32:07,600 --> 01:32:10,320
Speaker 1: or if you remember, we flew in on those in

1632
01:32:10,320 --> 01:32:12,280
Speaker 1: those super cubs. It seemed like it took forever to

1633
01:32:12,280 --> 01:32:14,240
Speaker 1: get up there. But then when we were flying out,

1634
01:32:14,280 --> 01:32:16,479
Speaker 1: they flew us down to that little strip that was

1635
01:32:16,520 --> 01:32:19,240
Speaker 1: only twenty five minutes away or twenty minutes away, and

1636
01:32:19,280 --> 01:32:23,479
Speaker 1: that was a had been a mining area there. Um.

1637
01:32:23,560 --> 01:32:25,360
Speaker 1: I never did get to see that. I always I

1638
01:32:25,400 --> 01:32:29,240
Speaker 1: took the direct flight in and out. Oh you did, man? Yeah,

1639
01:32:29,320 --> 01:32:33,240
Speaker 1: Well weren't you lucky? Actually? I mean I I would

1640
01:32:33,280 --> 01:32:35,519
Speaker 1: have done that, although it was an interesting experience getting

1641
01:32:35,680 --> 01:32:37,559
Speaker 1: to fly in the cessma back out of there because

1642
01:32:37,560 --> 01:32:41,479
Speaker 1: you were much higher up and that was a whole Yeah. Man,

1643
01:32:41,520 --> 01:32:46,880
Speaker 1: I mean I just still dream about that. But but

1644
01:32:46,960 --> 01:32:52,280
Speaker 1: I think that that that when I speak with um.

1645
01:32:52,320 --> 01:32:54,519
Speaker 1: So this is sort of and then there's the in between, right,

1646
01:32:55,200 --> 01:32:58,360
Speaker 1: So how could you remember? Had a landowner who was

1647
01:32:58,479 --> 01:33:01,160
Speaker 1: looking at doing some oak work, oak regeneration work on

1648
01:33:01,160 --> 01:33:02,880
Speaker 1: their property, and I took them up into what we

1649
01:33:02,920 --> 01:33:04,680
Speaker 1: call the big woods on our property. I was like,

1650
01:33:04,720 --> 01:33:06,479
Speaker 1: and we're gonna cut the rest of these trees next year.

1651
01:33:06,479 --> 01:33:09,240
Speaker 1: And they're like, how can you do that? It's like

1652
01:33:09,240 --> 01:33:13,240
Speaker 1: all you with the chainsaw, you know, and they're like no,

1653
01:33:13,240 --> 01:33:15,240
Speaker 1: no, no no, no. What I mean is how could you

1654
01:33:16,439 --> 01:33:21,640
Speaker 1: do this to this? These are magnificent trees, and and um,

1655
01:33:21,680 --> 01:33:23,479
Speaker 1: I would just want to hold them, and so that

1656
01:33:23,560 --> 01:33:26,120
Speaker 1: I took them a little bit and keep them, you know.

1657
01:33:26,400 --> 01:33:27,920
Speaker 1: So I took him a little further down to show

1658
01:33:27,920 --> 01:33:30,080
Speaker 1: them where some trees had fallen over. I mean, eventually

1659
01:33:30,120 --> 01:33:32,479
Speaker 1: they are all going to die. An oak red oak

1660
01:33:32,520 --> 01:33:34,920
Speaker 1: tree can live to be I don't know. Somebody will

1661
01:33:34,920 --> 01:33:39,040
Speaker 1: correct me if I'm wrong two hundred years old. Um,

1662
01:33:39,040 --> 01:33:40,759
Speaker 1: but they aren't all going to live to be that old,

1663
01:33:41,280 --> 01:33:43,840
Speaker 1: and the economic peak for them is somewhere between a

1664
01:33:43,880 --> 01:33:46,400
Speaker 1: hundred and hundred five. So we left some and we

1665
01:33:46,479 --> 01:33:49,280
Speaker 1: took a bunch and we're regenerating. So a hundred years

1666
01:33:49,320 --> 01:33:52,120
Speaker 1: from now, hopefully they'll be those trees there again on

1667
01:33:52,200 --> 01:33:55,600
Speaker 1: a heavily manipulated landscape. You know, it's already a manipulated

1668
01:33:55,680 --> 01:34:01,320
Speaker 1: landscape by man kind. And you know, you look at

1669
01:34:01,320 --> 01:34:03,360
Speaker 1: a small property and it's like, well, we don't want

1670
01:34:03,360 --> 01:34:06,160
Speaker 1: to do any of that here, totally understand, because you've

1671
01:34:06,200 --> 01:34:08,560
Speaker 1: only got ten acres of that kind of woods or

1672
01:34:08,600 --> 01:34:11,400
Speaker 1: fifteen acres of that kind of woods. So what's the

1673
01:34:11,439 --> 01:34:14,160
Speaker 1: best thing that you can do for that property based

1674
01:34:14,200 --> 01:34:16,120
Speaker 1: on all of the or that little chunk of woods,

1675
01:34:16,160 --> 01:34:17,840
Speaker 1: based on all of these thoughts that might be in

1676
01:34:17,880 --> 01:34:22,800
Speaker 1: your head? Um? Uh. One of the interesting things that

1677
01:34:23,240 --> 01:34:25,240
Speaker 1: at least it was interesting to me that when we

1678
01:34:25,280 --> 01:34:27,600
Speaker 1: did our first level of the shelter wood, which is

1679
01:34:27,640 --> 01:34:33,000
Speaker 1: you take out and take out about six of the

1680
01:34:33,040 --> 01:34:34,639
Speaker 1: oaks that are in there, and then we took out

1681
01:34:34,680 --> 01:34:37,640
Speaker 1: the other species that we didn't we didn't want to regenerate,

1682
01:34:37,680 --> 01:34:40,720
Speaker 1: and we held them back through herbicide applications and some

1683
01:34:40,800 --> 01:34:44,760
Speaker 1: other things. Redheaded woodpeckers moved in there, and it was

1684
01:34:44,920 --> 01:34:47,519
Speaker 1: for the five years before we did the second it

1685
01:34:47,600 --> 01:34:50,040
Speaker 1: was like this haven for redheaded woodpeckers. And it was

1686
01:34:50,080 --> 01:34:54,400
Speaker 1: just remarkable to see these giant, tall oaks that had

1687
01:34:54,400 --> 01:34:56,360
Speaker 1: grown tall and straight because there had been so many

1688
01:34:56,360 --> 01:34:58,160
Speaker 1: of them. They all went to the sunlight, and these

1689
01:34:58,200 --> 01:35:01,720
Speaker 1: red headed woodpeckers flying amongst. Well, what happened to those

1690
01:35:01,720 --> 01:35:06,040
Speaker 1: woodpeckers after we cut those, Well, they moved on. They

1691
01:35:06,040 --> 01:35:07,519
Speaker 1: happen to move on to another part of our A

1692
01:35:07,560 --> 01:35:09,000
Speaker 1: lot of them moved down to another part of our

1693
01:35:09,040 --> 01:35:11,240
Speaker 1: farm and still are there as part of our woodline.

1694
01:35:11,680 --> 01:35:16,160
Speaker 1: But then that was replaced by habitat for ground nesting

1695
01:35:16,200 --> 01:35:20,639
Speaker 1: birds and and and other songbirds and and um and

1696
01:35:20,640 --> 01:35:23,800
Speaker 1: and other wildlife. So you know, that's why we end

1697
01:35:23,880 --> 01:35:26,840
Speaker 1: up with sort of these you know, this balance and

1698
01:35:26,880 --> 01:35:29,439
Speaker 1: all of it. And yeah, I agree with you, Mark,

1699
01:35:29,520 --> 01:35:32,880
Speaker 1: there's room for all of it. It's interesting. A lot

1700
01:35:32,920 --> 01:35:35,519
Speaker 1: of these, a lot of stuff we're talking about the

1701
01:35:35,560 --> 01:35:41,439
Speaker 1: idea of management versus leaving some things to nature to

1702
01:35:41,439 --> 01:35:43,639
Speaker 1: see where it takes it some of these ideas around

1703
01:35:43,640 --> 01:35:49,479
Speaker 1: balance balancing hunting goals with your obligation to the land

1704
01:35:49,520 --> 01:35:51,880
Speaker 1: and trying to figure out what the right thing to do.

1705
01:35:52,360 --> 01:35:54,360
Speaker 1: And then the idea of like taking in all these

1706
01:35:54,400 --> 01:35:57,559
Speaker 1: different people's perspectives to write all these different goals, these

1707
01:35:57,560 --> 01:36:02,439
Speaker 1: different perspectives, trying to layer all these front parts getting

1708
01:36:02,439 --> 01:36:04,400
Speaker 1: you to some kind of plan of like what the

1709
01:36:04,400 --> 01:36:07,479
Speaker 1: hell do I do that this whole thing kind of

1710
01:36:08,000 --> 01:36:10,559
Speaker 1: it was like an individual listening. That's what each one

1711
01:36:10,600 --> 01:36:12,400
Speaker 1: of us is kind of trying to figure out. We're

1712
01:36:12,439 --> 01:36:15,640
Speaker 1: looking at all these layers and ideas and perspectives and

1713
01:36:15,680 --> 01:36:18,679
Speaker 1: competing interests and then figuring out what do I do?

1714
01:36:19,200 --> 01:36:23,240
Speaker 1: And I personally have been kind of living that experience

1715
01:36:23,320 --> 01:36:25,840
Speaker 1: myself over the last you know, six months or whatever

1716
01:36:25,960 --> 01:36:29,040
Speaker 1: is that we've been working through the back forty project,

1717
01:36:29,040 --> 01:36:31,479
Speaker 1: trying to you know, last year was learning about it,

1718
01:36:31,520 --> 01:36:33,120
Speaker 1: and then over the winter it's okay, now what are

1719
01:36:33,120 --> 01:36:36,000
Speaker 1: we gonna do? And now over the coming months, um,

1720
01:36:36,400 --> 01:36:38,439
Speaker 1: you know, assuming we can get through all this current

1721
01:36:38,439 --> 01:36:42,799
Speaker 1: events stuff, hopefully you know, executing on all these ideas.

1722
01:36:42,840 --> 01:36:45,400
Speaker 1: And so I've had to you know, here from a

1723
01:36:45,439 --> 01:36:47,479
Speaker 1: whole bunch of different people take all their ideas, and

1724
01:36:47,520 --> 01:36:50,920
Speaker 1: then I'm trying to filter these ideas through, Okay, through

1725
01:36:50,960 --> 01:36:54,320
Speaker 1: what our unique goals are, through what our unique circumstances are,

1726
01:36:54,360 --> 01:36:57,600
Speaker 1: through what our unique you know, resource levels are and

1727
01:36:57,640 --> 01:37:00,720
Speaker 1: abilities are, and then choosing Okay, I think of all

1728
01:37:00,840 --> 01:37:07,439
Speaker 1: these things we could do A, B, C, D, and

1729
01:37:07,439 --> 01:37:09,320
Speaker 1: and and now I'm trying to you know, do some

1730
01:37:09,400 --> 01:37:12,240
Speaker 1: of that. And you are a huge help in helping

1731
01:37:12,600 --> 01:37:15,519
Speaker 1: us come up with some of these ideas and helping

1732
01:37:15,600 --> 01:37:17,800
Speaker 1: me think through some of the things we can prioritize

1733
01:37:17,800 --> 01:37:19,880
Speaker 1: and how we might be able to do that. Um

1734
01:37:19,920 --> 01:37:21,840
Speaker 1: So I'm planning on executing on a number of the

1735
01:37:21,880 --> 01:37:25,439
Speaker 1: things you talked about, but um I want to pivot

1736
01:37:25,479 --> 01:37:27,000
Speaker 1: to that now. I want to kind of maybe it's

1737
01:37:27,000 --> 01:37:29,040
Speaker 1: the right place to end. As we've talked a lot

1738
01:37:29,040 --> 01:37:30,760
Speaker 1: of high level stuff. Now we can kind of talk

1739
01:37:30,880 --> 01:37:35,519
Speaker 1: some of like the concrete, small actual projects or or

1740
01:37:35,600 --> 01:37:37,720
Speaker 1: ideas or thoughts you came out and saw the back

1741
01:37:37,760 --> 01:37:40,720
Speaker 1: forty last year. We haven't really got to talk in

1742
01:37:40,760 --> 01:37:42,840
Speaker 1: any kind of public way about what you thought about it,

1743
01:37:42,880 --> 01:37:45,160
Speaker 1: because you know, we were a whole lot of stuff

1744
01:37:45,200 --> 01:37:48,479
Speaker 1: was filmed for the TV show. Very little actually makes

1745
01:37:48,520 --> 01:37:51,880
Speaker 1: it into the end episodes. You know. UM, so kind

1746
01:37:51,880 --> 01:37:54,360
Speaker 1: of curious. You've had a few months now to stew

1747
01:37:54,479 --> 01:37:58,000
Speaker 1: on your experience in the back forty. Um, you took

1748
01:37:58,040 --> 01:38:00,320
Speaker 1: a lot of time to put together some great recommendations,

1749
01:38:00,360 --> 01:38:04,639
Speaker 1: which we appreciate. I'm kind of just curious looking back

1750
01:38:04,640 --> 01:38:07,599
Speaker 1: on it now, what are your thoughts on the place? Uh,

1751
01:38:07,800 --> 01:38:10,439
Speaker 1: what are your thoughts on I don't know how it

1752
01:38:10,479 --> 01:38:13,720
Speaker 1: fits into these bigger issues we've talked about. I'm just

1753
01:38:13,760 --> 01:38:15,240
Speaker 1: kind of curious where you're at with the bag, for

1754
01:38:15,479 --> 01:38:18,160
Speaker 1: your thoughts on it, your thoughts on the future, thoughts

1755
01:38:18,160 --> 01:38:20,800
Speaker 1: and the potential anything like that. And then maybe I'd

1756
01:38:20,800 --> 01:38:23,080
Speaker 1: like to dive into a few specific things we're going

1757
01:38:23,120 --> 01:38:29,200
Speaker 1: to try to do. Um, but let's start high level. Yeah. Well, um,

1758
01:38:29,320 --> 01:38:31,519
Speaker 1: the first thing I would say is that you spent

1759
01:38:32,080 --> 01:38:34,720
Speaker 1: I mean, I know, I'm kissing your butt here a

1760
01:38:34,760 --> 01:38:38,200
Speaker 1: little bit, but this is a real compliment. You found

1761
01:38:38,200 --> 01:38:40,320
Speaker 1: a hell of a nice piece of property. I mean,

1762
01:38:40,360 --> 01:38:43,120
Speaker 1: if I was out looking for a property for a

1763
01:38:43,240 --> 01:38:45,880
Speaker 1: land or you know, for someone who's interested in buying land,

1764
01:38:45,920 --> 01:38:47,679
Speaker 1: I mean, and I didn't look around in that area,

1765
01:38:47,720 --> 01:38:49,160
Speaker 1: but it was clear to me that you did. In

1766
01:38:49,200 --> 01:38:51,439
Speaker 1: our conversation. I was like, Wow, this is a really

1767
01:38:51,520 --> 01:38:55,360
Speaker 1: nice mixed property. Not as much woods as some people

1768
01:38:55,360 --> 01:38:57,599
Speaker 1: would like, but when you look at it from five

1769
01:38:57,600 --> 01:38:59,760
Speaker 1: thousand feet in that area that it's not like there's

1770
01:38:59,800 --> 01:39:03,439
Speaker 1: huge d wooded areas. Um. And so you've got a

1771
01:39:03,479 --> 01:39:07,200
Speaker 1: really nice mix of things there on that property. Um.

1772
01:39:07,320 --> 01:39:10,599
Speaker 1: And so that's the first compliment that The next one

1773
01:39:10,760 --> 01:39:13,800
Speaker 1: is you have been thinking about this a lot in

1774
01:39:13,840 --> 01:39:15,960
Speaker 1: the last few months. I mean, I don't know. I

1775
01:39:16,000 --> 01:39:19,200
Speaker 1: was over there and went in October and um. Yeah,

1776
01:39:19,320 --> 01:39:21,400
Speaker 1: I mean I I don't have it right here in

1777
01:39:21,400 --> 01:39:24,479
Speaker 1: front of me because my other my other laptop crash

1778
01:39:24,520 --> 01:39:27,400
Speaker 1: and I didn't have I forgot to um to print

1779
01:39:27,439 --> 01:39:29,240
Speaker 1: it out. But I do have my notes here. But

1780
01:39:29,280 --> 01:39:34,080
Speaker 1: I think I gave you seven pages of thoughts and

1781
01:39:34,160 --> 01:39:36,479
Speaker 1: ideas and questions and all of that. And it wasn't

1782
01:39:36,520 --> 01:39:41,120
Speaker 1: like you should do this, it's here's something to think about, right.

1783
01:39:41,720 --> 01:39:43,519
Speaker 1: And that was because I looked at this when you

1784
01:39:43,520 --> 01:39:46,960
Speaker 1: guys had me come over there, um and and let's

1785
01:39:46,960 --> 01:39:49,800
Speaker 1: see what we spent. Um. What was that over there?

1786
01:39:49,800 --> 01:39:54,200
Speaker 1: For three days? Yeah? Well, you know, two full days

1787
01:39:54,200 --> 01:39:56,040
Speaker 1: and our parts of three days whatever, A couple of

1788
01:39:56,080 --> 01:39:59,519
Speaker 1: days over a couple of days there. Um, I drove over.

1789
01:39:59,560 --> 01:40:01,400
Speaker 1: Then we got here that first afternoon and we had

1790
01:40:01,400 --> 01:40:05,160
Speaker 1: that lovely weather, which I actually was a little disappointed,

1791
01:40:05,160 --> 01:40:07,120
Speaker 1: I'll be honest, I a a little disappointment that there wasn't

1792
01:40:07,120 --> 01:40:11,559
Speaker 1: more of us sitting in the rain got cut. That

1793
01:40:11,680 --> 01:40:14,000
Speaker 1: was actually a fun I'm glad it happened though, because

1794
01:40:14,000 --> 01:40:17,280
Speaker 1: we got to just sit and talk for a while. Yeah.

1795
01:40:17,479 --> 01:40:23,320
Speaker 1: Just nice. Well, and um, you proved to me this

1796
01:40:23,360 --> 01:40:26,960
Speaker 1: guy knows how to figure out how dear travel. I

1797
01:40:26,960 --> 01:40:29,360
Speaker 1: mean I was like every spot I looked at like, okay,

1798
01:40:29,360 --> 01:40:31,960
Speaker 1: well you've got to stand out, You've gotta stand over there. Okay,

1799
01:40:32,000 --> 01:40:34,240
Speaker 1: you gotta stay. I mean it's just like I was.

1800
01:40:34,800 --> 01:40:36,800
Speaker 1: I would put it over there. There wasn't I really

1801
01:40:36,800 --> 01:40:38,439
Speaker 1: didn't have any of that. I was like, Wow, Mark

1802
01:40:38,479 --> 01:40:43,800
Speaker 1: Kenny really does know deer hunting. So um that was

1803
01:40:43,840 --> 01:40:46,679
Speaker 1: really interesting to me. And uh, you know, to sort

1804
01:40:46,680 --> 01:40:52,720
Speaker 1: of hear the thought process that you're going through now. Um. Um,

1805
01:40:52,960 --> 01:40:56,400
Speaker 1: you know, I'm glad that I was able to give you,

1806
01:40:56,400 --> 01:40:58,280
Speaker 1: you know, some things to think about. I just think

1807
01:40:58,320 --> 01:41:01,080
Speaker 1: that that that connectivity feature you're going through there where

1808
01:41:01,120 --> 01:41:04,519
Speaker 1: the power lane goes through, and and that that stream

1809
01:41:05,160 --> 01:41:06,800
Speaker 1: or swamp or whatever you want to call it. I

1810
01:41:06,840 --> 01:41:09,040
Speaker 1: mean it seemed like there was water moves through there

1811
01:41:09,120 --> 01:41:13,559
Speaker 1: fairly regularly. Wow, water is important. Um, you have that

1812
01:41:13,680 --> 01:41:16,160
Speaker 1: nice great bog down in there over there and the

1813
01:41:16,439 --> 01:41:18,880
Speaker 1: uh whatever you were calling it, your honey hooleer or whatever.

1814
01:41:19,000 --> 01:41:20,760
Speaker 1: You know. So I didn't really get over but get

1815
01:41:20,800 --> 01:41:22,880
Speaker 1: the chance to get over by very much. But you know,

1816
01:41:22,960 --> 01:41:26,519
Speaker 1: I'm the same way I sell other parts of the

1817
01:41:26,600 --> 01:41:28,880
Speaker 1: farm to other people. You know, it would be a

1818
01:41:28,960 --> 01:41:31,360
Speaker 1: great place to stand over there, and then I'm over here.

1819
01:41:33,360 --> 01:41:35,840
Speaker 1: But you know, fair enough, it was really fun to

1820
01:41:35,880 --> 01:41:38,839
Speaker 1: be a guest, because I spent a lot of time

1821
01:41:39,280 --> 01:41:44,000
Speaker 1: having guests, you know, in my property or on our property. UM.

1822
01:41:44,080 --> 01:41:47,080
Speaker 1: I really liked that it had the egg fields on

1823
01:41:47,160 --> 01:41:54,400
Speaker 1: it that were fallow, um, because that's sort of a

1824
01:41:54,400 --> 01:41:59,640
Speaker 1: blank canvas for you, right, And I think I encouraged

1825
01:41:59,680 --> 01:42:03,599
Speaker 1: you to consider, um, maybe putting some of that back

1826
01:42:03,600 --> 01:42:08,879
Speaker 1: into agriculture, because you know what's wrong with a little farming, um,

1827
01:42:08,920 --> 01:42:11,720
Speaker 1: And that you know those are, um, you know, sort

1828
01:42:11,720 --> 01:42:14,240
Speaker 1: of a neighborhood thing. This guy's already farms over in

1829
01:42:14,240 --> 01:42:17,840
Speaker 1: that area. And then some stuff towards the back and man.

1830
01:42:17,920 --> 01:42:19,439
Speaker 1: You know, if nothing else it will give you, it

1831
01:42:19,439 --> 01:42:22,440
Speaker 1: will be a two or three years before that, um,

1832
01:42:23,240 --> 01:42:25,679
Speaker 1: before you really start developing things there, because there's a lot.

1833
01:42:25,720 --> 01:42:27,559
Speaker 1: I mean, I gave you a lot. And I know

1834
01:42:27,640 --> 01:42:29,320
Speaker 1: with the other folks that you had out there, it

1835
01:42:29,360 --> 01:42:32,280
Speaker 1: was you know, it was important. I really liked that

1836
01:42:32,360 --> 01:42:35,840
Speaker 1: at the entrance to the property. UM. I think you

1837
01:42:35,920 --> 01:42:38,479
Speaker 1: and Steve had talked about pollinator habitat out there and

1838
01:42:38,680 --> 01:42:43,599
Speaker 1: he has out there from n rcs. Um. Uh, there

1839
01:42:43,600 --> 01:42:45,920
Speaker 1: were some areas that need to be buffered a little

1840
01:42:45,920 --> 01:42:52,040
Speaker 1: bit um just and not mean to um close off people,

1841
01:42:52,280 --> 01:42:55,559
Speaker 1: but to screen, you know, from an aesthetic standpoint and

1842
01:42:55,600 --> 01:43:00,120
Speaker 1: from a wildlife standpoint, to create some screening of know,

1843
01:43:00,200 --> 01:43:04,800
Speaker 1: maybe the road the one neighbor and his um, well

1844
01:43:04,840 --> 01:43:08,520
Speaker 1: I was junk and then not be able to necessarily

1845
01:43:08,560 --> 01:43:11,000
Speaker 1: see his you know, his house and all that kind

1846
01:43:11,040 --> 01:43:15,680
Speaker 1: of thing. Um And uh, you know I thought that

1847
01:43:15,800 --> 01:43:18,880
Speaker 1: was I think that's one of the big one of

1848
01:43:18,920 --> 01:43:21,680
Speaker 1: the first opportunities and I know I talked about that

1849
01:43:21,760 --> 01:43:25,920
Speaker 1: during the winter is the opportunity to plant some trees. Um.

1850
01:43:26,000 --> 01:43:29,240
Speaker 1: And then it really becomes a question of well, um,

1851
01:43:29,280 --> 01:43:32,120
Speaker 1: you know, where do you plant those trees? Uh, you

1852
01:43:32,160 --> 01:43:36,360
Speaker 1: do have invasive invasive species control, invasive management. You're not

1853
01:43:36,360 --> 01:43:39,559
Speaker 1: going to get rid of them all, um, but I'd

1854
01:43:39,640 --> 01:43:41,599
Speaker 1: love to see you get rid of some of the

1855
01:43:41,680 --> 01:43:46,000
Speaker 1: autumn olive. It wasn't buck thorn. What did I not say?

1856
01:43:46,040 --> 01:43:47,720
Speaker 1: I think that buck thorn is the worst, But there

1857
01:43:47,760 --> 01:43:51,280
Speaker 1: are some autumnile of especially in that Honey Hoole area. Yeah.

1858
01:43:51,439 --> 01:43:54,519
Speaker 1: And so the big thing there is when you take

1859
01:43:54,600 --> 01:43:57,360
Speaker 1: something like that out, is you're gonna leave a hole,

1860
01:43:58,400 --> 01:44:02,600
Speaker 1: um and keep that and keep that invasive out or

1861
01:44:02,680 --> 01:44:06,240
Speaker 1: non native you know, sort of one man's invasive might

1862
01:44:06,280 --> 01:44:10,600
Speaker 1: be another man's non native, right, But I mean and

1863
01:44:10,640 --> 01:44:12,320
Speaker 1: then and then that would be you know, sort of

1864
01:44:12,320 --> 01:44:15,920
Speaker 1: a spot where you might, let's think about introducing some

1865
01:44:15,920 --> 01:44:18,840
Speaker 1: some native in there, um that that maybe have gotten

1866
01:44:18,880 --> 01:44:24,599
Speaker 1: shoved out by by all those invasives or not. Um. Uh.

1867
01:44:24,680 --> 01:44:26,360
Speaker 1: You know the other thing that I don't know if

1868
01:44:26,400 --> 01:44:28,639
Speaker 1: I mentioned this one. We were talking, and I'm pretty

1869
01:44:28,640 --> 01:44:32,439
Speaker 1: sure I put it into into the report that I

1870
01:44:32,479 --> 01:44:36,080
Speaker 1: sent you. But it was like all the other possibilities

1871
01:44:36,360 --> 01:44:39,040
Speaker 1: and stuff that I honestly don't know that much about

1872
01:44:39,040 --> 01:44:41,320
Speaker 1: what I'm learning about all the time. And that is

1873
01:44:41,360 --> 01:44:45,000
Speaker 1: like from the perspective of some of these gatherer uh

1874
01:44:45,080 --> 01:44:49,120
Speaker 1: and forager types. Um. There's a woman out in Maine

1875
01:44:49,200 --> 01:44:53,160
Speaker 1: named General Rose l who I follow her on Instagram

1876
01:44:53,200 --> 01:44:56,200
Speaker 1: and UH have kind of, you know, catted with her

1877
01:44:56,240 --> 01:44:58,680
Speaker 1: a bunch, and I'd love to get her perspective on this,

1878
01:44:58,720 --> 01:45:01,559
Speaker 1: because I mean she's she's living off the land, and yeah,

1879
01:45:01,560 --> 01:45:03,439
Speaker 1: she hunts and everything too, but it's all of these

1880
01:45:03,439 --> 01:45:06,680
Speaker 1: other things that um, you and I might just look

1881
01:45:06,760 --> 01:45:10,600
Speaker 1: at from the standpoint of you know, it's just what

1882
01:45:10,760 --> 01:45:13,040
Speaker 1: is that? And I mean she sees the benefit of it,

1883
01:45:13,120 --> 01:45:16,400
Speaker 1: and where our perspective might be, well that's a problem. Um.

1884
01:45:16,439 --> 01:45:18,320
Speaker 1: I think she says something like, you know, and the

1885
01:45:18,360 --> 01:45:21,360
Speaker 1: war on weeds. Um. And then there's this this cat

1886
01:45:21,479 --> 01:45:26,240
Speaker 1: here in uh in Wisconsin, mushroom Mike, and um, you know,

1887
01:45:26,320 --> 01:45:28,880
Speaker 1: he's a guy who's actually built a business around he's

1888
01:45:28,880 --> 01:45:33,960
Speaker 1: actually growing mushrooms. And I think Stephen contacted me a

1889
01:45:33,960 --> 01:45:36,040
Speaker 1: while ago, and when was that he had talked about?

1890
01:45:36,160 --> 01:45:38,040
Speaker 1: Was hey, man, what were those mushrooms that you grow?

1891
01:45:38,080 --> 01:45:41,559
Speaker 1: And shintaki mushrooms? You know, just kind of a cool

1892
01:45:41,600 --> 01:45:43,479
Speaker 1: thing that somebody can do on their property and it's

1893
01:45:43,479 --> 01:45:45,720
Speaker 1: something that's edible on all of that, and so Mike

1894
01:45:45,760 --> 01:45:49,840
Speaker 1: has sort of taken that, um perspective of stuff that

1895
01:45:49,880 --> 01:45:51,760
Speaker 1: you can forage and mushrooms you can find in the woods,

1896
01:45:51,760 --> 01:45:53,200
Speaker 1: and I've learned a bunch from him. I gotta get

1897
01:45:53,200 --> 01:45:56,000
Speaker 1: that dude out here too, um because I don't know

1898
01:45:56,080 --> 01:45:58,840
Speaker 1: my wild mushrooms as as well as I as I could,

1899
01:45:58,880 --> 01:46:01,400
Speaker 1: and I know stuff is going to quote unquote waste

1900
01:46:01,520 --> 01:46:06,599
Speaker 1: right um uh, but those kinds of opportunities are are

1901
01:46:06,640 --> 01:46:11,400
Speaker 1: there too? Um, So you know what to do first?

1902
01:46:11,520 --> 01:46:15,080
Speaker 1: I guess is the is the what you're really getting at, right? Well,

1903
01:46:15,120 --> 01:46:18,320
Speaker 1: there's yeah, that's that's the trick, is what to do

1904
01:46:18,360 --> 01:46:22,560
Speaker 1: first and what to fit into the small time we have. Um.

1905
01:46:22,640 --> 01:46:24,880
Speaker 1: But I before I forget, I got to dig in

1906
01:46:24,960 --> 01:46:27,719
Speaker 1: a little bit more in the mushroom thing, because because

1907
01:46:27,760 --> 01:46:30,439
Speaker 1: that is something we want to try. Um. It's kind

1908
01:46:30,479 --> 01:46:33,760
Speaker 1: of a fun little thing. Steve was mentioning this to me.

1909
01:46:34,000 --> 01:46:36,320
Speaker 1: Maybe maybe you're the one who told them about it.

1910
01:46:36,360 --> 01:46:39,839
Speaker 1: Is it true that we can actually spread mushroom spores

1911
01:46:40,720 --> 01:46:43,600
Speaker 1: proactively where we want them and get more mushrooms to

1912
01:46:43,640 --> 01:46:47,360
Speaker 1: grow in our place, almost like we're planting a crop,

1913
01:46:48,000 --> 01:46:50,920
Speaker 1: but in a mushroom spore inoculation kind of way or

1914
01:46:50,960 --> 01:46:56,599
Speaker 1: whatever whatever the right verbages. UM maybe UM, I don't

1915
01:46:56,800 --> 01:47:01,080
Speaker 1: have UM when I when I started talking about hittackey

1916
01:47:01,200 --> 01:47:04,559
Speaker 1: mushrooms or lions main, which is another one. UM that's

1917
01:47:04,640 --> 01:47:10,000
Speaker 1: actually taking a UM, like a four foot stick of

1918
01:47:10,200 --> 01:47:12,519
Speaker 1: wood and in your case would be okay, I've used

1919
01:47:12,560 --> 01:47:15,759
Speaker 1: iron wood and oak too, and then um, you actually

1920
01:47:15,800 --> 01:47:20,800
Speaker 1: inoculate those specific logs um, And I just have to

1921
01:47:20,840 --> 01:47:23,679
Speaker 1: be frank, I don't. I don't have enough knowledge about

1922
01:47:23,720 --> 01:47:26,840
Speaker 1: spreading sports. I've read and seeing people who have said

1923
01:47:26,880 --> 01:47:30,960
Speaker 1: they've done it with morales um, and uh, boy, there's

1924
01:47:31,560 --> 01:47:33,680
Speaker 1: there's a whole lot of people who know way more

1925
01:47:33,680 --> 01:47:36,080
Speaker 1: about that than than I do. And that is something

1926
01:47:36,120 --> 01:47:41,040
Speaker 1: that um that this guy Mike would be Uh, it's

1927
01:47:41,080 --> 01:47:42,960
Speaker 1: something we kind of want to just give a shot

1928
01:47:43,000 --> 01:47:46,880
Speaker 1: as a a fun, little different way to get some

1929
01:47:47,120 --> 01:47:49,840
Speaker 1: different types of food from the place you know well, right,

1930
01:47:49,920 --> 01:47:52,040
Speaker 1: And and then the other ones that I had mentioned

1931
01:47:52,040 --> 01:47:54,160
Speaker 1: to Steve, he he texts me when must have been

1932
01:47:54,200 --> 01:47:56,320
Speaker 1: talking about or been at that time, because you know,

1933
01:47:56,360 --> 01:47:59,839
Speaker 1: it's like random, He's just like randomly texts me question

1934
01:48:00,040 --> 01:48:07,559
Speaker 1: and it's never how you're doing it. Yeah, Yeah, I

1935
01:48:07,560 --> 01:48:10,280
Speaker 1: need something from you. Um, but I love those. I

1936
01:48:10,320 --> 01:48:13,000
Speaker 1: love those. Uh. I love it when he reaches out

1937
01:48:13,000 --> 01:48:15,599
Speaker 1: to me like that. But I was talking about also,

1938
01:48:15,920 --> 01:48:18,320
Speaker 1: you know, like they're near your entry. You know, sort

1939
01:48:18,360 --> 01:48:22,400
Speaker 1: of traditional um farmstead kind of stuff, like starting an

1940
01:48:22,400 --> 01:48:26,960
Speaker 1: asparagus patch, um uh, which doesn't take much. You know,

1941
01:48:26,960 --> 01:48:29,000
Speaker 1: it's a little bit of a little bit of jimmy

1942
01:48:29,000 --> 01:48:31,559
Speaker 1: dicking around, but it's it's it's not that much. Or

1943
01:48:31,800 --> 01:48:36,720
Speaker 1: planting um um, very varieties that are still going to

1944
01:48:36,800 --> 01:48:39,120
Speaker 1: provide you know, cover and all those sort of things.

1945
01:48:39,160 --> 01:48:44,320
Speaker 1: But you know, um um planning some berry bushes because

1946
01:48:44,320 --> 01:48:47,400
Speaker 1: you've got all that edge, right, Um, there's so much

1947
01:48:47,520 --> 01:48:51,479
Speaker 1: edge between the property in within the property, those those

1948
01:48:51,920 --> 01:48:57,000
Speaker 1: wind or the field rows and uh rocks rocks and

1949
01:48:57,040 --> 01:48:58,960
Speaker 1: all the trees and stuff, and you've got stands in

1950
01:48:59,040 --> 01:49:02,160
Speaker 1: them and all that. Um but though and and so

1951
01:49:02,240 --> 01:49:03,800
Speaker 1: those are the kinds of things too that could be

1952
01:49:03,840 --> 01:49:07,639
Speaker 1: a part of that. Right. So you're planting, you're planting

1953
01:49:07,680 --> 01:49:12,000
Speaker 1: stuff that is forageible you know over time. Our rhubarbus

1954
01:49:12,120 --> 01:49:14,280
Speaker 1: I mean it sounds crazy, but rubarb is another one

1955
01:49:14,320 --> 01:49:16,560
Speaker 1: we plant. We have a rubarb patch out at the

1956
01:49:16,640 --> 01:49:18,360
Speaker 1: farm and it's just sort of what there wasn't any

1957
01:49:18,640 --> 01:49:20,080
Speaker 1: you know, for a long time. And it's just sort

1958
01:49:20,080 --> 01:49:21,680
Speaker 1: of one of those things that you put it in

1959
01:49:21,760 --> 01:49:23,479
Speaker 1: the ground. It kind of takes care of itself. And

1960
01:49:23,520 --> 01:49:27,719
Speaker 1: if you don't, um, you don't harvest it all or whatever,

1961
01:49:27,760 --> 01:49:30,519
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter. I mean, it just does what it does.

1962
01:49:30,640 --> 01:49:33,840
Speaker 1: And asparagus, wild asparagus, you know, grows in the ditches

1963
01:49:33,880 --> 01:49:36,680
Speaker 1: and stuff. Why not why not you know, have some

1964
01:49:36,800 --> 01:49:39,479
Speaker 1: there near the entry that you know you pull in

1965
01:49:39,560 --> 01:49:42,280
Speaker 1: because you've got that just that cool little spot where

1966
01:49:42,280 --> 01:49:43,880
Speaker 1: you pull in. And I know we talked about a

1967
01:49:43,920 --> 01:49:46,680
Speaker 1: building and you know a bunch of other things too, um,

1968
01:49:47,000 --> 01:49:50,280
Speaker 1: and stuff that be handy right there, so um, you

1969
01:49:50,280 --> 01:49:52,639
Speaker 1: know that would be one the spoor thing. I'll have

1970
01:49:52,720 --> 01:49:57,640
Speaker 1: to uh, I'll make a note of that and and

1971
01:49:57,640 --> 01:49:59,559
Speaker 1: and see if I can hook you up with somebody

1972
01:49:59,600 --> 01:50:06,360
Speaker 1: that um. Um, Well, I've kept you longer than I expected, Doug, um,

1973
01:50:06,720 --> 01:50:10,360
Speaker 1: so sorry about that. I know you've got stuff to do.

1974
01:50:10,880 --> 01:50:16,080
Speaker 1: Could you give us just a real little bit of

1975
01:50:16,680 --> 01:50:19,559
Speaker 1: insight into the tree planning thing though, because that's one

1976
01:50:19,560 --> 01:50:21,080
Speaker 1: of the first things that I want to do and

1977
01:50:21,360 --> 01:50:24,840
Speaker 1: especially use your help to do it. Um. I feel

1978
01:50:24,840 --> 01:50:26,720
Speaker 1: like there's this idea that you have to plant that

1979
01:50:26,760 --> 01:50:29,040
Speaker 1: you can only plant these little itty bitty seedlings and

1980
01:50:29,040 --> 01:50:31,639
Speaker 1: that's gonna take ten years before you get anything out

1981
01:50:31,680 --> 01:50:34,360
Speaker 1: of it. But you shared with me the fact that

1982
01:50:34,479 --> 01:50:36,000
Speaker 1: you know there are some kinds of ways you can

1983
01:50:36,000 --> 01:50:39,400
Speaker 1: get park grade trees and with some equipment you can

1984
01:50:39,439 --> 01:50:43,240
Speaker 1: actually get some bigger, some bigger plants out on the

1985
01:50:43,360 --> 01:50:46,160
Speaker 1: landscape to to do some things you talked about, creating structure,

1986
01:50:46,240 --> 01:50:49,200
Speaker 1: creating screening cover. Can you give me like the really

1987
01:50:49,280 --> 01:50:51,800
Speaker 1: quick overview on that, because that's something that when you

1988
01:50:51,840 --> 01:50:54,920
Speaker 1: get out here, hopefully, um, we're gonna dive a lot into.

1989
01:50:55,000 --> 01:50:57,719
Speaker 1: So I kind of want to set the stage. Yeah.

1990
01:50:57,920 --> 01:51:01,280
Speaker 1: So one of the things that you property was lacking,

1991
01:51:01,360 --> 01:51:03,840
Speaker 1: if that's the right word, is a is a you know,

1992
01:51:04,000 --> 01:51:10,200
Speaker 1: is evergreen cover. And man, um that I think it's

1993
01:51:10,320 --> 01:51:13,960
Speaker 1: vital for all kinds of wild wildlife because um, that

1994
01:51:14,080 --> 01:51:16,720
Speaker 1: evergreen cover gives deer a place to bed. You know,

1995
01:51:16,760 --> 01:51:19,920
Speaker 1: it's thermal cover and and all that's that sort of thing.

1996
01:51:20,040 --> 01:51:25,360
Speaker 1: I'll say a couple of things, Um, you can buy generally, um,

1997
01:51:25,400 --> 01:51:26,960
Speaker 1: and of course I've been in this business for a

1998
01:51:26,960 --> 01:51:29,240
Speaker 1: long time. You can buy what are called part gray trees,

1999
01:51:29,280 --> 01:51:31,160
Speaker 1: which are not ones that anybody's gonna plant in the

2000
01:51:31,240 --> 01:51:33,519
Speaker 1: front yard and go, you know, that's a specimen, right,

2001
01:51:33,560 --> 01:51:36,759
Speaker 1: that's the perfect specimen of that UM. But when trees

2002
01:51:36,800 --> 01:51:41,000
Speaker 1: get planted in these plantations, they um, you know, some

2003
01:51:41,040 --> 01:51:45,320
Speaker 1: of them getting misformed, and and uh they just aren't

2004
01:51:45,360 --> 01:51:49,479
Speaker 1: you know, aren't necessarily the specimen tree. UM. You can

2005
01:51:49,520 --> 01:51:54,040
Speaker 1: generally buy those at a discounted rate. UM. I know

2006
01:51:54,120 --> 01:51:58,160
Speaker 1: you had talked about our vida northern white cedar, which

2007
01:51:59,720 --> 01:52:01,479
Speaker 1: I think I sent you some notes about what might

2008
01:52:01,479 --> 01:52:04,519
Speaker 1: consume with is with them, I mean, they're they're great cover,

2009
01:52:04,640 --> 01:52:07,599
Speaker 1: they grow quick, they're you know, they're they're going to ground.

2010
01:52:07,640 --> 01:52:09,800
Speaker 1: But the deer also really like to eat them, and

2011
01:52:09,840 --> 01:52:14,160
Speaker 1: you can really see that as a problem. UM. But

2012
01:52:14,320 --> 01:52:16,519
Speaker 1: that you know that that would be one UM I

2013
01:52:16,640 --> 01:52:19,519
Speaker 1: liked to tend towards the natives. You know, white pine

2014
01:52:20,280 --> 01:52:23,840
Speaker 1: um is a great one. And I was telling you

2015
01:52:23,880 --> 01:52:26,800
Speaker 1: earlier about those trees that I planted with my daughter.

2016
01:52:26,920 --> 01:52:30,320
Speaker 1: That was just she's getting her master's degree five years

2017
01:52:30,360 --> 01:52:31,760
Speaker 1: and so it was a she was a senior in

2018
01:52:31,800 --> 01:52:34,439
Speaker 1: high school and we planted eighteen inch seedlings and we

2019
01:52:34,520 --> 01:52:38,400
Speaker 1: cut six and a half seven foot white pines UM

2020
01:52:38,439 --> 01:52:42,519
Speaker 1: this year for um for our Christmas trees. UM. So

2021
01:52:42,560 --> 01:52:45,200
Speaker 1: they do grow fast, but a mix, so a mix

2022
01:52:45,240 --> 01:52:48,120
Speaker 1: of that would be a great opportunity. Um. And so

2023
01:52:48,200 --> 01:52:52,200
Speaker 1: those trees will be bald and burlapped. And we were

2024
01:52:52,240 --> 01:52:54,360
Speaker 1: you and I had kind of identified a couple of

2025
01:52:54,360 --> 01:52:57,960
Speaker 1: spots where um, you know you've got like an exposure.

2026
01:52:58,000 --> 01:52:59,920
Speaker 1: You can almost open it up that there would be

2027
01:53:00,120 --> 01:53:04,360
Speaker 1: like a southwest exposure and those evergreen trees would create

2028
01:53:04,439 --> 01:53:09,439
Speaker 1: this this wind break and uh, thermal cover for for

2029
01:53:09,560 --> 01:53:11,559
Speaker 1: deer and other animals to go in there in bed.

2030
01:53:11,640 --> 01:53:15,000
Speaker 1: And I'll tell you man, um, that's also a great

2031
01:53:15,040 --> 01:53:16,840
Speaker 1: place to find sheds because that's where they go and

2032
01:53:16,920 --> 01:53:20,519
Speaker 1: hole up in the winters. So if I know you

2033
01:53:20,560 --> 01:53:25,240
Speaker 1: were working on that, um uh that and I hope

2034
01:53:25,240 --> 01:53:27,320
Speaker 1: that we get the chance to plant trees because uh

2035
01:53:28,080 --> 01:53:30,040
Speaker 1: um you know, both big and small. I mean that

2036
01:53:30,120 --> 01:53:31,640
Speaker 1: might be a good way of looking at that, right

2037
01:53:31,720 --> 01:53:35,519
Speaker 1: is let's get some five and six ft um uh

2038
01:53:35,720 --> 01:53:40,720
Speaker 1: part grade uh you know, pine spruce UM and arbovitas

2039
01:53:40,840 --> 01:53:44,160
Speaker 1: or cedars and uh and then eastern cedars the other

2040
01:53:44,200 --> 01:53:46,479
Speaker 1: one to which there might be some people cringing out

2041
01:53:46,479 --> 01:53:49,439
Speaker 1: there right now because they are. It's a native, but

2042
01:53:49,600 --> 01:53:54,240
Speaker 1: they tend to invade. They tend to spread pretty quickly. Um,

2043
01:53:54,280 --> 01:53:56,960
Speaker 1: but they don't get like. White cedar is soft and

2044
01:53:57,000 --> 01:53:59,240
Speaker 1: deer like to eat them. Red cedar and not so soft,

2045
01:53:59,280 --> 01:54:01,200
Speaker 1: and deer don't like the them quite as much. They

2046
01:54:01,240 --> 01:54:05,280
Speaker 1: I'll beat them at all actually, um, and then maybe

2047
01:54:05,360 --> 01:54:08,040
Speaker 1: get some smaller ones too, you know, so that um,

2048
01:54:08,080 --> 01:54:10,120
Speaker 1: you know, five years from now that there will be

2049
01:54:10,320 --> 01:54:12,840
Speaker 1: these You know, you're impacting a bigger area, and I

2050
01:54:12,880 --> 01:54:14,640
Speaker 1: know the idea is that this property is going to

2051
01:54:14,720 --> 01:54:18,599
Speaker 1: be given away, but um, in the short and long term,

2052
01:54:18,760 --> 01:54:20,640
Speaker 1: you know, short, we have a short term impact and

2053
01:54:20,840 --> 01:54:24,000
Speaker 1: a longer term impact as well. Term exactly what we

2054
01:54:24,080 --> 01:54:26,360
Speaker 1: want to do is to attend to both of those

2055
01:54:26,640 --> 01:54:30,800
Speaker 1: time time rangers. So well, hopefully things that cleared up

2056
01:54:30,840 --> 01:54:34,840
Speaker 1: here soon and later with the virus and travel begins again,

2057
01:54:35,320 --> 01:54:37,880
Speaker 1: and uh, you and I can spend some time digging

2058
01:54:37,960 --> 01:54:42,000
Speaker 1: holes and planting trees. So yeah, right on, man, I

2059
01:54:42,000 --> 01:54:44,120
Speaker 1: mean it's easy for me to you know, I don't

2060
01:54:44,160 --> 01:54:46,760
Speaker 1: have to fly to come over there through well and

2061
01:54:46,920 --> 01:54:50,960
Speaker 1: figure that all out. And um, the captured creative guys

2062
01:54:51,000 --> 01:54:54,560
Speaker 1: if they want to, um, you know, come down and

2063
01:54:54,760 --> 01:54:57,560
Speaker 1: ride over together something like that. I'll keep can't keep

2064
01:54:57,560 --> 01:54:59,240
Speaker 1: six you can put you can put Jordan in the

2065
01:54:59,240 --> 01:55:06,680
Speaker 1: bed of the truck. About that, well, Doug, thank you,

2066
01:55:06,760 --> 01:55:08,880
Speaker 1: thank you, thank you for taking so much time to

2067
01:55:08,920 --> 01:55:11,920
Speaker 1: talk through all this stuff. Um. It was just what

2068
01:55:12,000 --> 01:55:15,840
Speaker 1: I personally needed, was a palate cleanser. But then also

2069
01:55:15,880 --> 01:55:17,600
Speaker 1: a little bit of the therapy session at the beginning

2070
01:55:17,640 --> 01:55:19,560
Speaker 1: to kind of air out some of the thoughts on

2071
01:55:19,600 --> 01:55:22,560
Speaker 1: everything going on. UM, Hey, I know you've got some

2072
01:55:22,600 --> 01:55:26,120
Speaker 1: cool stuff going on with your own Um, with your

2073
01:55:26,120 --> 01:55:27,960
Speaker 1: own stuff. Is there anyone Is there anywhere you want

2074
01:55:27,960 --> 01:55:31,480
Speaker 1: to point folks to keep up on new products you're

2075
01:55:31,480 --> 01:55:34,480
Speaker 1: working on, or to connect with you or anything else

2076
01:55:34,480 --> 01:55:37,480
Speaker 1: like that you want to share with folks. I appreciate that. UM,

2077
01:55:37,600 --> 01:55:39,800
Speaker 1: yeah you can, um, folks, you can find me on

2078
01:55:39,840 --> 01:55:44,000
Speaker 1: Instagram at Doug Durham. Simple enough. UM. I have a

2079
01:55:44,040 --> 01:55:48,360
Speaker 1: new web website that is under development, and along with

2080
01:55:48,360 --> 01:55:50,320
Speaker 1: that there will be some merchandise that I have been

2081
01:55:50,320 --> 01:55:54,240
Speaker 1: promising um for a while with the it's not ours,

2082
01:55:54,280 --> 01:55:58,960
Speaker 1: it's just our turn um theme. UM. So you keep

2083
01:55:58,960 --> 01:56:00,400
Speaker 1: an eye on me on Instagram. I mean that will

2084
01:56:00,440 --> 01:56:01,800
Speaker 1: be coming up, but we hope to have that all

2085
01:56:01,880 --> 01:56:04,680
Speaker 1: launched in the next couple of weeks. Um actually looking

2086
01:56:04,720 --> 01:56:08,640
Speaker 1: at some kind of cool refrigerator magnance we're sent to me. Um,

2087
01:56:08,720 --> 01:56:12,960
Speaker 1: but we'll have um um, we'll have that up real soon.

2088
01:56:13,040 --> 01:56:15,880
Speaker 1: And and uh yeah, the Instagram is the best place

2089
01:56:15,920 --> 01:56:18,000
Speaker 1: to keep tracking me right now. And then the website

2090
01:56:18,040 --> 01:56:20,760
Speaker 1: will be up soon and and I will have some merchandise,

2091
01:56:20,840 --> 01:56:23,920
Speaker 1: and and that may show up in another The merchandise,

2092
01:56:24,120 --> 01:56:27,520
Speaker 1: uh will likely be showing up in another location as well.

2093
01:56:27,720 --> 01:56:31,480
Speaker 1: So well, I guess we'll leave it at that. Very cool. Well,

2094
01:56:31,520 --> 01:56:33,920
Speaker 1: I've seen the shirts and hats. They look pretty awesome, dougs.

2095
01:56:33,920 --> 01:56:38,280
Speaker 1: So I'm digging what you're doing and appreciate your continued,

2096
01:56:39,600 --> 01:56:42,960
Speaker 1: uh your continued efforts to educate people, to inspire people,

2097
01:56:43,560 --> 01:56:47,560
Speaker 1: sharing your experiences in your knowledge. It's it's making a difference,

2098
01:56:47,720 --> 01:56:49,960
Speaker 1: and it's it's helped me all out too, So so

2099
01:56:50,080 --> 01:56:52,280
Speaker 1: thank you for all that, Doug. Yeah man. And in

2100
01:56:52,320 --> 01:56:58,480
Speaker 1: the same you, uh, I just I like looking at

2101
01:56:58,520 --> 01:57:01,920
Speaker 1: things from your perspective, hearing your perspective on things as well,

2102
01:57:01,960 --> 01:57:05,960
Speaker 1: and uh um it keeps things fresh for me and

2103
01:57:05,960 --> 01:57:11,480
Speaker 1: and and you know, remembering that perspectives are important, and

2104
01:57:11,480 --> 01:57:13,200
Speaker 1: I look forward to it again. A bunch of stuff

2105
01:57:13,200 --> 01:57:15,200
Speaker 1: we didn't get to and I asked people on AM

2106
01:57:15,240 --> 01:57:17,480
Speaker 1: if there was anything they want us to talk about.

2107
01:57:17,480 --> 01:57:19,640
Speaker 1: We touched on some of them. That sounds good. Well

2108
01:57:19,800 --> 01:57:22,839
Speaker 1: here late in May, let's let's hopefully still get together.

2109
01:57:23,000 --> 01:57:26,760
Speaker 1: We'll plant some trees, we'll do another podcast and uh, well,

2110
01:57:26,760 --> 01:57:29,160
Speaker 1: a good time. All right, Thanks again, Doug stays safe,

2111
01:57:29,520 --> 01:57:32,320
Speaker 1: good bye, take care buddy, And that's a wrap. So

2112
01:57:32,480 --> 01:57:34,920
Speaker 1: thank you for listening, and until next time, I just

2113
01:57:34,960 --> 01:57:39,080
Speaker 1: hope all of you can stay safe, stay healthy, wash

2114
01:57:39,120 --> 01:57:44,440
Speaker 1: your hands, follow the guidelines, be smart, but also stay positive,

2115
01:57:44,640 --> 01:57:48,520
Speaker 1: get outside, enjoy the great outdoors. Things. Things are gonna

2116
01:57:48,520 --> 01:57:50,720
Speaker 1: be okay if we can work through this together and

2117
01:57:50,840 --> 01:57:54,040
Speaker 1: be smart about things. So I'm gonna be crossed all

2118
01:57:54,040 --> 01:57:56,640
Speaker 1: my fingers and toes and keep it after it here

2119
01:57:56,760 --> 01:57:59,200
Speaker 1: with the Wire Dump podcast and all the content over

2120
01:57:59,200 --> 01:58:01,680
Speaker 1: at meat Eat, we're gonna be pumping out as much

2121
01:58:01,760 --> 01:58:05,120
Speaker 1: as we possibly can to uh, to keep you guys excited,

2122
01:58:05,160 --> 01:58:08,800
Speaker 1: to keep you informed and educated and entertained and uh

2123
01:58:08,800 --> 01:58:11,320
Speaker 1: and smiling too. So thank you for being here with us,

2124
01:58:11,440 --> 01:58:14,920
Speaker 1: and until next time, stay wired to hunt