WEBVTT - What is quantum biology? 0:00:08.080 --> 0:00:12.080 Hey, Kelly, how do biologists feel about quantum mechanics. 0:00:12.360 --> 0:00:15.440 Well, I don't feel comfortable speaking for all biologists, but 0:00:15.480 --> 0:00:19.119 i'd say for myself, I'm mostly uncertain. 0:00:19.760 --> 0:00:22.600 Are you uncertain about whether quantum mechanics makes sense? 0:00:23.120 --> 0:00:25.239 Well, when I was working on my PhD, I did 0:00:25.280 --> 0:00:28.960 some work on neurotransmitters and steroid hormones, and all of 0:00:29.000 --> 0:00:32.479 that was so complicated and often didn't go as predicted. 0:00:32.960 --> 0:00:34.519 It's hard for me to believe that when you go 0:00:34.600 --> 0:00:37.680 another step down to the quantum mechanics level, that we 0:00:37.680 --> 0:00:39.080 could make any sense of it. 0:00:40.040 --> 0:00:41.960 So are you attempted to just like brush all the 0:00:42.040 --> 0:00:43.440 quantum details into the rug? 0:00:43.840 --> 0:00:47.479 Well, I'd be okay with letting physicists worry about the 0:00:47.520 --> 0:00:50.720 particles doing their quantum thing, and you'd all worry about 0:00:50.760 --> 0:00:52.080 the pests and the parasites. 0:00:52.560 --> 0:00:58.320 That feels like a fair division of labor, unless unless, what, 0:00:58.960 --> 0:01:02.360 unless it's actually all entangled and you can never escape 0:01:02.440 --> 0:01:12.600 quantum mechanics. Excuse my evil cackle. 0:01:14.319 --> 0:01:15.399 It was a good evil cackle. 0:01:15.400 --> 0:01:15.880 Oh good. 0:01:31.360 --> 0:01:31.560 Hi. 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:34.600 I'm Daniel. I'm a particle physicist and a professor at 0:01:34.680 --> 0:01:38.920 UC Irvine, and I've been practicing my evil quantum wizard Cackle. 0:01:39.080 --> 0:01:43.319 And I'm Kelly Wiener Smith, an adjunct assistant professor at 0:01:43.440 --> 0:01:46.400 Rice University. And I've been trying to avoid thinking about 0:01:46.440 --> 0:01:48.120 quantum mechanics and animal behavior. 0:01:49.680 --> 0:01:51.480 But is that even possible? 0:01:51.600 --> 0:01:54.960 I guess the answer is definitively no. It's collapsed to 0:01:55.120 --> 0:01:56.080 know as of this. 0:01:56.000 --> 0:01:59.720 Conversation, especially if you're a guest host on a physics 0:01:59.720 --> 0:02:01.800 pot cast. Kelly, that's not a great way to avoid 0:02:01.880 --> 0:02:02.640 quantum mechanics. 0:02:02.720 --> 0:02:03.920 I've made bad choices. 0:02:05.400 --> 0:02:08.040 Well, welcome all of you to the podcast Daniel and 0:02:08.120 --> 0:02:12.080 Jorge Explain the Universe, a production of iHeartRadio in which 0:02:12.120 --> 0:02:15.600 we marinate in the mysteries of quantum mechanics. We get 0:02:15.680 --> 0:02:18.880 down and dirty into the mud of the quantum realm. 0:02:19.120 --> 0:02:22.519 We try to understand how this incredible experience that we live, 0:02:22.880 --> 0:02:25.440 all the ice cream and the goats and the blueberries 0:02:25.480 --> 0:02:29.520 and the blue skies, can somehow be made of these tiny, 0:02:29.600 --> 0:02:33.840 frothing quantum particles that behave according to fundamentally different rules 0:02:34.080 --> 0:02:35.640 than the ones we experience. 0:02:35.840 --> 0:02:38.400 And we don't even understand the biology rules, but let's 0:02:38.400 --> 0:02:39.520 try the physics ones. 0:02:41.360 --> 0:02:44.000 The whole point of reductionism is to say, well, everything 0:02:44.120 --> 0:02:47.440 is big and complicated up here. Let's dig down deep. 0:02:47.720 --> 0:02:50.600 Let's pull the universe apart and try to understand it 0:02:50.639 --> 0:02:53.840 at its tiniest little bits. Maybe down there things will 0:02:53.880 --> 0:02:56.560 be simple, will be clear, will be crisp. And from 0:02:56.560 --> 0:02:59.960 that understanding, from that firm foundation, maybe we could build 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:03.320 up a comprehension of everything else that flows from that, 0:03:03.360 --> 0:03:06.160 including goats and ice cream and parasites. 0:03:06.520 --> 0:03:09.200 Well, I'm not sure I believe. 0:03:08.960 --> 0:03:12.639 It, but we'll find out. It's a big goal. It's 0:03:12.639 --> 0:03:14.960 a stretch of goal, let's say, of science. You know, 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:17.000 along the way we hope to learn a few things. 0:03:17.000 --> 0:03:19.800 But that's sort of the fantasy, right that we could 0:03:19.880 --> 0:03:23.519 understand the universe in terms of its smallest little bits. 0:03:23.680 --> 0:03:25.240 I do think we'll get there. It's going to be 0:03:25.240 --> 0:03:27.840 a little bit hard to connect across these levels, but 0:03:27.960 --> 0:03:28.799 it's a worthy goal. 0:03:30.280 --> 0:03:33.120 Often in science we do a division of labor. We say, look, 0:03:33.240 --> 0:03:36.600 economists can worry about things at a certain level, and 0:03:36.720 --> 0:03:40.080 palaeontologists worry about things at another level, and quantum physicists 0:03:40.120 --> 0:03:42.400 worry about things at a different level. And often these 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:46.040 levels are distinct. Like when you do fluid mechanics, you 0:03:46.040 --> 0:03:48.560 don't really have to understand all the forces between the 0:03:48.600 --> 0:03:51.760 little particles, and when you do economics, you don't have 0:03:51.800 --> 0:03:55.920 to understand the chemical reactions inside everybody's fingers. You can 0:03:56.000 --> 0:03:58.800 like abstract that away, and you can do science at 0:03:58.840 --> 0:04:01.440 so many different levels in our universe. It's sort of 0:04:01.440 --> 0:04:03.680 an amazing fact, and it's like the reason why we 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:06.440 have anything but quantum mechanics and particle physics. 0:04:06.600 --> 0:04:08.640 And so today you're going to try to convince me 0:04:08.720 --> 0:04:11.960 that we can understand animal behavior better by connecting with 0:04:12.040 --> 0:04:13.880 our quantum people. Is that right? 0:04:14.160 --> 0:04:16.760 Today we're going to ask if that's really fair. We're 0:04:16.800 --> 0:04:19.440 going to ask if there are cracks in that division 0:04:19.480 --> 0:04:23.680 of labor, if quantum mechanics is bleeding through Somehow are 0:04:23.760 --> 0:04:26.440 there clues in the way we behave and animals behave 0:04:26.480 --> 0:04:30.279 and in the biological world that reveal the fundamental quantum 0:04:30.360 --> 0:04:33.240 nature of the universe or is it deeply locked behind 0:04:33.279 --> 0:04:36.920 these philosophical walls and completely abstracted away. 0:04:37.200 --> 0:04:39.279 It would be so nice if you could go into 0:04:39.320 --> 0:04:41.760 your own little cove and you didn't have to look out. 0:04:41.800 --> 0:04:44.120 But I'm guessing the answer is going to be you 0:04:44.160 --> 0:04:46.479 see more clearly when you see from a variety of 0:04:46.480 --> 0:04:47.960 angles m Well. 0:04:48.040 --> 0:04:55.680 Today on the podcast, we'll be asking the question what 0:04:55.880 --> 0:04:59.479 is quantum biology? This does sound like the name of 0:04:59.480 --> 0:05:00.840 a weird startup, doesn't it. 0:05:01.120 --> 0:05:02.960 Yeah, it does. I hadn't thought of it that way, 0:05:03.000 --> 0:05:05.280 but yeah, i'd work there. I'd apply for a job 0:05:05.279 --> 0:05:06.320 at quantum Biology. 0:05:07.200 --> 0:05:10.080 Depends on which quanta they use to pay you, I suppose. 0:05:09.880 --> 0:05:11.680 Y Oh, no, that's true. And then how good their 0:05:11.800 --> 0:05:15.280 late station is? 0:05:15.279 --> 0:05:17.279 Is that you decide a job to take? 0:05:17.640 --> 0:05:21.120 Well, you know, I guess I'm not employed by anyone 0:05:21.160 --> 0:05:23.800 right now, but that would help. That would help. And 0:05:23.839 --> 0:05:26.280 if they'll do my laundry, that would be great. 0:05:27.600 --> 0:05:28.760 Aren't you self employed? 0:05:28.920 --> 0:05:30.360 Oh yeah, I guess that counts, So. 0:05:30.320 --> 0:05:32.119 You should ask yourself for a late station. 0:05:32.560 --> 0:05:35.120 I make a pretty mean latte. I take good care 0:05:35.160 --> 0:05:35.719 of myself. 0:05:36.720 --> 0:05:39.120 There you go, and you do your own laundry, right, 0:05:39.160 --> 0:05:41.160 So the boss is really providing over there on the 0:05:41.160 --> 0:05:41.760 science farm. 0:05:41.839 --> 0:05:46.359 Mmm, you make a good point. Yeah, we do do 0:05:46.440 --> 0:05:48.720 our own laundry around here, but we're the bosses, all right. 0:05:48.880 --> 0:05:49.440 Point made. 0:05:49.480 --> 0:05:52.159 But we're not here to talk about laundry and coffee today. 0:05:52.240 --> 0:05:55.200 We're here to dig into biological processes and to ask 0:05:55.600 --> 0:05:58.120 whether there is a quantum nature to it, whether the 0:05:58.240 --> 0:06:02.600 quantum description of the universe, the quantum nature of reality 0:06:03.120 --> 0:06:07.279 reveals itself somehow in biology if you can find place 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:10.960 in biology where quantum mechanics is necessary to make things 0:06:11.000 --> 0:06:13.080 work or to understand them. 0:06:13.240 --> 0:06:15.040 And our usual place to go to to get our 0:06:15.080 --> 0:06:19.560 conversations started is the clever listeners of DJEU. Should we 0:06:19.720 --> 0:06:20.760 check in with them first? 0:06:20.800 --> 0:06:24.560 Absolutely, let's do that. Thanks very much everybody who volunteers 0:06:24.600 --> 0:06:28.080 to answer these weird questions that you get asked without 0:06:28.200 --> 0:06:31.479 any chance to prepare. We love hearing your voice and 0:06:31.520 --> 0:06:34.520 your thoughts, and we love if you've participated. We are 0:06:34.520 --> 0:06:37.320 talking to you. That's right, you've been listening for years 0:06:37.320 --> 0:06:40.400 without participating. But you know you want to please write 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:44.680 to me two questions at Danielandjorge dot com. So before 0:06:44.720 --> 0:06:46.480 you hear these answers, think about it for yourself for 0:06:46.480 --> 0:06:50.840 a minute. What is quantum biology? Here's what people had 0:06:50.839 --> 0:06:51.200 to say. 0:06:51.760 --> 0:06:55.400 Quantum biology is a study of microscopic life and how 0:06:55.440 --> 0:06:59.919 such live influences and influenced by quantum effects. For example, 0:07:00.200 --> 0:07:03.400 I'm pretty sure microtubules and specific cells are believed to 0:07:03.400 --> 0:07:05.240 exhibit potential quantum behavior. 0:07:06.040 --> 0:07:10.360 Well, it's definitely a super cool sounding term. Maybe it's 0:07:10.640 --> 0:07:16.800 applying the nondeterministic nature of quantum mechanics to biology. I'm 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:22.080 thinking about like hydrothermal vents and quantum randomness helping to 0:07:22.200 --> 0:07:25.360 generate early DNA and early life. 0:07:26.000 --> 0:07:30.120 So quantum biology, I guess, would be looking to see 0:07:30.520 --> 0:07:33.800 within the human body or other animals to see if 0:07:34.080 --> 0:07:37.320 there's some weird quantum effects going on, or if our 0:07:37.360 --> 0:07:41.720 body somehow uses quantum mechanics in a way. So perhaps 0:07:43.200 --> 0:07:47.280 our senses or organs or our brain does something really weird, 0:07:47.520 --> 0:07:53.760 like where it communicates information really fast in an impossible way, 0:07:53.840 --> 0:07:56.560 and so we're thinking that maybe there's some quantum phenomenon 0:07:56.600 --> 0:07:56.920 going on. 0:07:57.440 --> 0:07:59.960 If we're not talking about ant man in the quantum realm, 0:08:00.240 --> 0:08:03.679 then I think I've heard something about this with bees 0:08:04.000 --> 0:08:08.840 and their ability to see on ultraviolet, something quantum effects 0:08:08.880 --> 0:08:10.600 with flowers and vision. 0:08:11.480 --> 0:08:14.000 I do know what biology is. I kind of know 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:18.640 what quantum is. Maybe quantum biology helps explain quantum phenomena 0:08:18.720 --> 0:08:23.559 that happens in biology, maybe something like bioluminescence, or maybe 0:08:23.560 --> 0:08:27.280 something with like how energy is transferred a photosynthesis. So 0:08:27.360 --> 0:08:33.600 maybe there's some quantum phenomena that can help explain biological processes. 0:08:34.480 --> 0:08:36.880 What is quantum biology? I don't know. 0:08:38.000 --> 0:08:40.760 I would guess quantum biology is the study of the 0:08:40.800 --> 0:08:45.079 crossover of quantum physics and biology. I kind of recall 0:08:45.160 --> 0:08:47.400 hearing a couple of years ago that we discovered that 0:08:47.440 --> 0:08:51.000 birds are able to tap into some quantum process and 0:08:51.200 --> 0:08:54.000 use that for navigation, and so I would guess maybe 0:08:54.000 --> 0:08:57.760 it's something similar along those lines of different types of 0:08:57.800 --> 0:09:02.880 biological creatures and how they are able to utilize quantum physics. 0:09:03.280 --> 0:09:06.280 So those were some really great answers, and for me, 0:09:06.440 --> 0:09:09.480 they sparked some old memories, Like I feel like I 0:09:09.520 --> 0:09:14.120 had heard something about quantum processes and bird navigation, which 0:09:14.120 --> 0:09:16.440 you know, tie together my interest in animal behavior with 0:09:16.600 --> 0:09:19.680 quantum stuff. And it made me wonder, does something like 0:09:20.320 --> 0:09:25.040 cancer like caused by mutations from UV radiation is that? 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:27.400 Does that count as quantum biology? So what are we 0:09:27.960 --> 0:09:30.319 What is the scope that we're talking about here? In particular? 0:09:31.280 --> 0:09:33.520 I see what you're doing. You're gonna say quantum mechanics 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:35.280 kills people, right, You're going to try to make us 0:09:35.320 --> 0:09:35.720 look bad. 0:09:37.440 --> 0:09:40.160 What is it? It's my turn to be the one 0:09:40.160 --> 0:09:45.080 who who delivers the bad news. I think your evil 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:47.640 laugh is better, but I'll work on it. 0:09:47.760 --> 0:09:50.160 That was a good Quantum Wizard cackle. I liked it, thanks, 0:09:51.160 --> 0:09:52.719 But yeah, that's exactly what we're going to try to 0:09:52.760 --> 0:09:56.880 do today is trying to understand where quantum mechanics affects biology. 0:09:57.400 --> 0:10:00.199 And that's really what quantum biology is is the understand 0:10:00.440 --> 0:10:03.600 of the impact of quantum mechanics, the rules of quantum mechanics, 0:10:03.880 --> 0:10:06.320 and how they filter up to the big stuff, the 0:10:06.360 --> 0:10:09.400 sloshy stuff, the goopy stuff that we love in biology. 0:10:09.520 --> 0:10:12.280 So I'll be interested in seeing if understanding quantum mechanics 0:10:12.280 --> 0:10:15.480 mostly helps us understand when things go wrong, or if 0:10:15.480 --> 0:10:19.439 it also helps us understand like helpful things like navigation. 0:10:19.600 --> 0:10:21.800 Is it just does it kill you when it messes up? 0:10:22.040 --> 0:10:23.319 Or can it be helpful? 0:10:23.640 --> 0:10:25.720 Yeah, I'd be fascinating If you need it's like quantum 0:10:25.760 --> 0:10:28.360 mechanics in order to enjoy sex or something like that, that 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:30.000 would be cool. That'd be a good selling point for 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:30.840 quantum mechanics. 0:10:30.920 --> 0:10:34.640 I would definitely care then. Yeah, I'd buy that book. 0:10:35.400 --> 0:10:38.480 All right. So let's start off by reminding ourselves what 0:10:38.559 --> 0:10:40.880 the rules of the quantum realm are. What are we 0:10:40.920 --> 0:10:43.839 talking about here? Because we understand that physics tells us 0:10:43.840 --> 0:10:47.120 about how things move and fall and inertia and motion 0:10:47.280 --> 0:10:49.640 and gravity and all that stuff. But that's the kind 0:10:49.640 --> 0:10:52.839 of stuff we already find intuitive. We know that dolphins 0:10:52.920 --> 0:10:56.400 know the rules of fluid mechanics, and that birds understand 0:10:56.400 --> 0:10:58.520 how to fly, and of course they have to follow 0:10:58.600 --> 0:11:01.480 the laws of physics. But that's classical physics. That's the 0:11:01.480 --> 0:11:03.720 physics that we grew up with, the physics that we 0:11:03.720 --> 0:11:06.839 have an intuition for. The physics that defines why a 0:11:06.920 --> 0:11:09.760 ball flies through the air into your glove, or why 0:11:09.760 --> 0:11:12.800 a car crashes or doesn't crash. What we need to 0:11:12.880 --> 0:11:15.400 understand today are the rules of the quantum realm, which 0:11:15.440 --> 0:11:19.440 seem fundamentally different the physics basically of the tiny particles 0:11:19.520 --> 0:11:20.840 instead of the big stuff. 0:11:20.960 --> 0:11:24.920 So does that rule out cancer caused by solar radiation? 0:11:25.559 --> 0:11:28.440 No, it does not, absolutely. Okay, as long as we 0:11:28.480 --> 0:11:30.720 can find a quantum link, then we can blame quantum 0:11:30.760 --> 0:11:32.880 mechanics for all of cancer. Don't worry, we'll get there. 0:11:32.960 --> 0:11:35.880 Oh that's great, Okay, great, I look forward to it. 0:11:35.960 --> 0:11:37.880 Let's do a quick review on what is the nature 0:11:37.960 --> 0:11:40.120 of the quantum realm? What are we talking about here? 0:11:40.440 --> 0:11:42.880 What are the rules of quantum mechanics that could influence 0:11:42.920 --> 0:11:46.800 biology in a weird, sort of unusual, non classical way. 0:11:47.640 --> 0:11:52.120 And point number one is that quantum mechanics has an uncertainty. 0:11:52.559 --> 0:11:55.800 And this is often described as like Eisenberg uncertainty principle, 0:11:55.880 --> 0:11:59.400 there's fuzziness to the universe. But it's much more than that. 0:11:59.480 --> 0:12:02.760 It's much deeper than just like we don't know where 0:12:02.800 --> 0:12:08.120 that electron is. Philosophically, it requires a complete revision of 0:12:08.160 --> 0:12:11.439 your understanding of what location means, like in the sort 0:12:11.440 --> 0:12:14.440 of Bill Clinton sense, like what is means when we 0:12:14.480 --> 0:12:18.280 say where the electron is? 0:12:17.880 --> 0:12:20.480 This is one of the raunchier shows we've done in 0:12:20.520 --> 0:12:20.880 a while. 0:12:22.480 --> 0:12:24.760 Okay, all right, yeah, I'm trying to keep it sexy 0:12:25.080 --> 0:12:27.360 in this case. What I mean is that's more than 0:12:27.679 --> 0:12:29.920 we don't know where the electron is. It that the 0:12:29.960 --> 0:12:33.840 electron doesn't have a location at every point. Like when 0:12:33.840 --> 0:12:36.800 you think about a baseball flying through your backyard, it's 0:12:36.920 --> 0:12:39.600 very natural to think that it has a location at 0:12:39.600 --> 0:12:42.960 every point in time. And like freshman students of physics 0:12:43.040 --> 0:12:45.760 learned to write the trajectory as a function X of t, 0:12:46.000 --> 0:12:48.880 which tells you where it is at every point in time. 0:12:49.360 --> 0:12:53.080 Because we assume that objects exist somewhere at every point 0:12:53.400 --> 0:12:55.280 and that they have a smooth path. They don't like 0:12:55.600 --> 0:12:58.520 disappear from here and just appear over there. It's like 0:12:58.559 --> 0:13:01.240 a very basic assumption of the way the world works. 0:13:01.520 --> 0:13:06.560 But that's not true for electrons. Electrons have locations at 0:13:06.600 --> 0:13:09.280 moments like snapshots. It's here at this time, it's there 0:13:09.320 --> 0:13:12.520 at that time, But they don't have paths. They don't 0:13:12.559 --> 0:13:15.280 have to go from here to there. Even if they 0:13:15.320 --> 0:13:18.600 can be here and then later be there, you don't 0:13:18.640 --> 0:13:21.280 have to connect them. In fact, you can't connect them 0:13:21.559 --> 0:13:22.680 with a smooth path. 0:13:23.240 --> 0:13:25.800 I guess as an animal behaviorist, I was hoping that 0:13:25.800 --> 0:13:28.360 that uncertainty sort of provides an at like if you 0:13:28.440 --> 0:13:30.959 average it, you get an answer that tells you everything 0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:32.840 you need to know, so you can ignore it. But 0:13:33.120 --> 0:13:34.120 we'll see if that's true. 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:36.280 Yes, exactly. That seems to happen when you have lots 0:13:36.320 --> 0:13:40.319 of electrons. When you're averaging over many, many particles, then 0:13:40.360 --> 0:13:42.880 things seem to come together and behave differently. Like you 0:13:42.880 --> 0:13:45.200 have an individual electron, it doesn't have a path. But 0:13:45.240 --> 0:13:47.920 if you have ten to twenty nine particles and exists 0:13:47.920 --> 0:13:50.440 in a baseball that does have a path. And so 0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:52.960 the weird thing about quantum mechanics is that when you 0:13:53.080 --> 0:13:56.360 zoom out, when you aggregate it over many many particles, 0:13:56.600 --> 0:13:59.720 different rules emerge. And that's the mystery of the universe 0:13:59.760 --> 0:14:02.040 we were talking about earlier, like, we don't really know 0:14:02.080 --> 0:14:04.920 why stuff does emerge. Why when you zoom out the 0:14:05.000 --> 0:14:07.520 rules seem to be different. Why can you write simple 0:14:07.600 --> 0:14:10.960 mathematical stories about the motion of a baseball without really 0:14:11.080 --> 0:14:13.360 understanding what it's made out of and what the rules 0:14:13.400 --> 0:14:15.960 are for what it's made out of. It's this incredible 0:14:16.080 --> 0:14:18.600 magic trick we do that allows us to do science 0:14:18.640 --> 0:14:22.280 at so many different levels without understanding the internals. Agreed, 0:14:23.720 --> 0:14:26.200 But we definitely learned that electrons don't have this property. 0:14:26.240 --> 0:14:30.200 They don't have a path or trajectory. They have multiple possibilities, 0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.800 and they can maintain those possibilities simultaneously. Like if an 0:14:33.800 --> 0:14:37.080 electron interacts with something, it might go left or might 0:14:37.120 --> 0:14:39.440 go right, for example, when it hits a magnetic field, 0:14:40.080 --> 0:14:43.760 and the universe allows it to have those possibilities simultaneously, 0:14:43.840 --> 0:14:46.040 to say, well, maybe you went left, maybe you went right. 0:14:46.280 --> 0:14:49.680 We don't know both of them are possible. You sometimes 0:14:49.680 --> 0:14:51.840 hear this set is like, oh, the electron is in 0:14:51.920 --> 0:14:54.840 two places at once. That makes it sound like, oh, 0:14:54.840 --> 0:14:57.080 it's got path, it's just got more than one of them. 0:14:57.400 --> 0:15:00.120 But the reality is that doesn't have a path two 0:15:00.240 --> 0:15:04.520 probabilities of being in those places, which it can maintain 0:15:04.600 --> 0:15:07.680 simultaneously without actually being in either one. 0:15:07.840 --> 0:15:12.240 So I am assuming we'll get to the electron transport chain. 0:15:12.280 --> 0:15:15.360 I'm feeling amazed that stuff like this works when you 0:15:15.400 --> 0:15:19.120 can't depend on your partner the electron, to do their part. 0:15:19.520 --> 0:15:21.920 Yeah, it's amazing to me that anybody relies on electrons 0:15:21.920 --> 0:15:27.120 to do anything. They don't seem very cooperative. The second 0:15:27.240 --> 0:15:30.040 crucial element you have to understand about quantum mechanics to 0:15:30.080 --> 0:15:33.880 think about its impact on biology is that randomness. Like, 0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:36.880 if an electron can interact with a magnetic field, it 0:15:36.880 --> 0:15:39.280 has a probability to do one thing and a probability 0:15:39.280 --> 0:15:42.840 to do something else. That's very quantum mechanical. But then 0:15:42.880 --> 0:15:44.960 sometimes we make a measurement. We say, well, I want 0:15:45.000 --> 0:15:46.760 to know is the electron over here or is it 0:15:46.800 --> 0:15:49.040 over there? So we interact with it with like an 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:52.400 eyeball or something big and classical. It forces the universe 0:15:52.440 --> 0:15:54.840 to make a choice, is the electron over here or 0:15:54.960 --> 0:15:57.240 is it over there? And we want one of those 0:15:57.400 --> 0:16:02.480 snapshots to collapse those probabilities. Something incredible happens in that moment, 0:16:02.920 --> 0:16:08.360 something which we never otherwise experience true actual randomness. We 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.000 think we experience randomness in the universe a lot, like 0:16:11.000 --> 0:16:13.120 when you roll a die, or you flip a coin, 0:16:13.800 --> 0:16:17.320 or they pull lottery numbers. But that's not actual randomness. 0:16:17.440 --> 0:16:21.240 That's just chaos. That's just something which is complicated and 0:16:21.440 --> 0:16:24.560 hard to predict. But if you repeated it the same way, 0:16:24.760 --> 0:16:28.120 exactly the same way, twice, you would get the same answer. 0:16:28.840 --> 0:16:32.040 Chaos is when things are very sensitive to exactly how 0:16:32.040 --> 0:16:35.800 you've done them. Randomness means if you do things exactly 0:16:35.840 --> 0:16:38.400 the same way twice, you get different outcomes. 0:16:38.480 --> 0:16:42.720 So I'm finding myself realizing that I'm not one hundred 0:16:42.760 --> 0:16:46.800 percent clear on the difference between randomness and uncertainty. Does 0:16:46.840 --> 0:16:49.440 the randomness generate uncertainty? 0:16:49.880 --> 0:16:52.640 Yeah, absolutely, It works sort of both ways. The randomness 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:56.240 generates an uncertainty, but the uncertainty allows for randomness. The 0:16:56.320 --> 0:16:59.840 uncertainty says, oh, there's several possible outcomes for the electron, 0:17:00.120 --> 0:17:02.680 and then the universe comes and it picks one. How 0:17:02.680 --> 0:17:05.000 does that happen If the electron has a fifty percent 0:17:05.080 --> 0:17:07.600 chance of being left and fifty percent chance of being right, 0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.080 somehow the universe decides, Oh, this electron's left or this 0:17:11.160 --> 0:17:14.440 electron's right. We don't know what the mechanism is for that. 0:17:14.600 --> 0:17:17.600 We don't have any way to do that ourselves. Like 0:17:17.640 --> 0:17:20.159 if you came into being said Daniel, build me a 0:17:20.240 --> 0:17:24.600 device which will generate random outcomes left or right ones 0:17:24.680 --> 0:17:27.760 or zeros, I couldn't do it unless I connected myself 0:17:27.760 --> 0:17:31.560 somehow to a truly random quantum process, Like I couldn't 0:17:31.560 --> 0:17:34.480 build a random number generator on a computer. You probably 0:17:34.480 --> 0:17:36.720 have one on your computer, but it's not actually a 0:17:36.800 --> 0:17:39.800 random number generator. You run it twice the same way, 0:17:39.960 --> 0:17:43.200 it will generate exactly the same series twice. The only 0:17:43.280 --> 0:17:46.680 way we have to generate randomness in the universe is 0:17:46.720 --> 0:17:51.400 to connect to quantum mechanical processes. Cosmic rays and electrons 0:17:51.720 --> 0:17:55.359 and anything tiny and quantum can actually be random. 0:17:55.400 --> 0:17:59.000 And so we do have random generators using quantum processes. 0:17:59.119 --> 0:18:01.960 And can you give an example of like a process 0:18:01.960 --> 0:18:04.879 that requires that actual kind of randomness as opposed to 0:18:05.520 --> 0:18:07.760 you know, the random number generators I can get on Google. 0:18:08.119 --> 0:18:11.560 Most things don't need real quantum randomness. Most things are 0:18:11.560 --> 0:18:15.239 fine with what we call pseudo orandom number generators that 0:18:15.359 --> 0:18:19.560 approximate randomness. And so for most applications, like you're running 0:18:19.600 --> 0:18:22.959 a simulation or something, you can do just fine with 0:18:23.040 --> 0:18:27.120 pseudo random number generators. You can create real random number 0:18:27.240 --> 0:18:30.520 generators if, for example, you have like a camera quointed 0:18:30.600 --> 0:18:34.480 at a cosmic ray detector. Cosmic rays are quantum particles 0:18:34.480 --> 0:18:36.800 and they are truly random, and if you use that 0:18:36.800 --> 0:18:40.080 as like a seed, then you can generate actual random numbers. 0:18:40.280 --> 0:18:42.480 But there are very are few things that really need 0:18:42.760 --> 0:18:43.679 true randomness. 0:18:43.760 --> 0:18:46.520 That's good because I use the Google random number generator 0:18:46.560 --> 0:18:46.840 a lot. 0:18:47.720 --> 0:18:50.359 Yeah, it's fine, exactly, it's fine. 0:18:50.880 --> 0:18:53.480 Okay, all right, so we got uncertainty and randomness. Is 0:18:53.480 --> 0:18:56.320 there anything else we need to know about quantum mechanics 0:18:56.400 --> 0:18:57.560 before we move on? 0:18:57.960 --> 0:19:01.560 Well, the word quantum means something important. Quantum means like 0:19:01.760 --> 0:19:04.840 a unit, a discrete chunk, and that tells us something 0:19:04.840 --> 0:19:07.679 about how the world works. Quantum mechanics gives us a 0:19:07.680 --> 0:19:11.520 picture of the universe that's not smooth and infinitely divisible, 0:19:11.840 --> 0:19:14.200 but built out of discrete packets. And that's a little weird. 0:19:14.200 --> 0:19:16.840 It's not something we're used to. Like. If you imagine 0:19:17.119 --> 0:19:20.200 talking to your friend or cackling loudly, right, you can 0:19:20.320 --> 0:19:23.200 cackle loudly or you can cackle quietly, and you can 0:19:23.240 --> 0:19:25.800 make that cackle quieter and quieter, and it feels like 0:19:26.160 --> 0:19:29.080 you could keep making that quieter forever, like keep making 0:19:29.119 --> 0:19:31.040 it half as loud and half as loud and half 0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.479 as loud, and you could just keep going forever. Right, 0:19:33.520 --> 0:19:35.119 there's no minimum loudness. 0:19:35.480 --> 0:19:37.880 Okay, sounds like it would get annoying pretty quick. 0:19:39.400 --> 0:19:41.600 It's like that song, right, a little bit quieter now, 0:19:41.840 --> 0:19:44.480 a little bit softer now, but. 0:19:44.560 --> 0:19:46.399 It doesn't go on forever, and that's what you enjoy it. 0:19:46.480 --> 0:19:48.600 Yeah, exactly. If it went on forever, it would be annoying. 0:19:49.080 --> 0:19:51.080 But you can't do that with things like a light beam. 0:19:51.520 --> 0:19:54.200 A light beam seems like it's continuous. It seems like 0:19:54.240 --> 0:19:56.800 you could dial it up to really bright or really dim, 0:19:56.880 --> 0:19:59.040 and that you could keep making it dimmer and dimmer 0:19:59.040 --> 0:20:02.320 and dimmer forever. But the truth is you can't because 0:20:02.320 --> 0:20:06.920 that light beam is made of quantum objects, individual packets 0:20:06.960 --> 0:20:11.320 of light photons, and so there is a minimum brightness 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:14.359 you dial your laser down, so it's emitting one photon 0:20:14.480 --> 0:20:16.919 at a time. That's the minimum brightness. You can't go 0:20:16.960 --> 0:20:19.320 to half a photon, or a quarter of a photon, 0:20:19.600 --> 0:20:20.760 or an eighth of a photon. 0:20:20.960 --> 0:20:22.840 So a photon is something we don't expect that will 0:20:22.880 --> 0:20:25.640 ever break down in more detail ever. 0:20:26.480 --> 0:20:28.959 Yeah, that's a good question. Is a photon fundamental or 0:20:29.000 --> 0:20:31.000 is it made of other stuff? As far as we know, 0:20:31.040 --> 0:20:34.199 it's a ripple and a quantum field that is itself fundamental. 0:20:34.200 --> 0:20:37.119 It can't be broken into smaller bits. But even if 0:20:37.119 --> 0:20:38.880 it could, it wouldn't be a photon anymore. 0:20:39.320 --> 0:20:39.439 So. 0:20:39.480 --> 0:20:43.000 Still, photons are the discrete unit of light. You can't 0:20:43.000 --> 0:20:44.040 break them any smaller. 0:20:44.080 --> 0:20:47.760 So electrons are made up of smaller parts, but when 0:20:47.800 --> 0:20:49.960 you take those parts out, it's not an electron anymore. 0:20:49.960 --> 0:20:53.000 So electrons are also fundamental parts, is that right? 0:20:53.359 --> 0:20:55.560