1 00:00:00,160 --> 00:00:02,840 Speaker 1: Hi, I'm Sarah Holder, a new host of The Big 2 00:00:02,840 --> 00:00:06,000 Speaker 1: Take podcast. Today, I'm excited to share an episode from 3 00:00:06,040 --> 00:00:09,600 Speaker 1: one of our sister shows, Elon Inc. Every week it 4 00:00:09,640 --> 00:00:12,959 Speaker 1: takes you inside Elon Musk's tech empire and the drama 5 00:00:13,000 --> 00:00:15,640 Speaker 1: that always seems to be swirling around the founder himself. 6 00:00:16,320 --> 00:00:19,400 Speaker 1: This week, what Musk's alleged drug use might mean for 7 00:00:19,440 --> 00:00:29,800 Speaker 1: his businesses. Thanks so much for listening and enjoy the episode. 8 00:00:32,159 --> 00:00:35,080 Speaker 2: Well, Elon Musk gives now the richest person on the planet. 9 00:00:35,440 --> 00:00:38,239 Speaker 2: More than half the satellites in space are owned and 10 00:00:38,360 --> 00:00:40,360 Speaker 2: controlled by one man. 11 00:00:40,680 --> 00:00:44,720 Speaker 3: Starting his own artificial intelligence company. Well, he's a legitimate 12 00:00:44,760 --> 00:00:45,479 Speaker 3: super genius. 13 00:00:45,680 --> 00:00:46,640 Speaker 4: I mean legitimate. 14 00:00:46,800 --> 00:00:47,160 Speaker 2: He says. 15 00:00:47,159 --> 00:00:49,760 Speaker 5: He's always voted for Democrats, but this year it will 16 00:00:49,800 --> 00:00:51,240 Speaker 5: be different. He'll vote Republican. 17 00:00:51,520 --> 00:00:54,000 Speaker 6: There is a reason the US government is so reliant 18 00:00:54,040 --> 00:00:54,400 Speaker 6: on him. 19 00:00:54,600 --> 00:00:57,600 Speaker 3: Elon Musk is a scam artist and he's done nothing. 20 00:00:58,840 --> 00:01:01,480 Speaker 6: Anything he does he's fascinating people. 21 00:01:10,959 --> 00:01:11,800 Speaker 4: Welcome to Elon Inc. 22 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,479 Speaker 7: Where we discussed Elon Musk's vast corporate empire, his latest 23 00:01:15,520 --> 00:01:17,840 Speaker 7: gambits and antics, and how to make sense of it all. 24 00:01:18,080 --> 00:01:20,920 Speaker 7: I'm your host Joel Weber, sitting in for David Papa Uplass. 25 00:01:21,360 --> 00:01:22,759 Speaker 7: It's been the talk of the town, so to speak, 26 00:01:22,800 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 7: for these last few days. On Saturday night, The Wall 27 00:01:25,360 --> 00:01:29,360 Speaker 7: Street Journal dropped his story detailing Elon Musk's alleged drug 28 00:01:29,440 --> 00:01:32,600 Speaker 7: use over the past few years and discussed how it 29 00:01:32,680 --> 00:01:35,280 Speaker 7: has or hasn't impacted his businesses. 30 00:01:35,600 --> 00:01:38,480 Speaker 8: After a report from The Wall Street Journal claimed legal 31 00:01:38,560 --> 00:01:41,160 Speaker 8: drug use was the cause of some of Elon Musk's 32 00:01:41,240 --> 00:01:45,080 Speaker 8: questionable behavior, and executives are concerned about the impact on 33 00:01:45,160 --> 00:01:47,840 Speaker 8: his companies, including Tesla and SpaceX. 34 00:01:47,960 --> 00:01:50,440 Speaker 7: Musk has admitted to drug use before, and of course 35 00:01:50,560 --> 00:01:53,080 Speaker 7: smoked weed with Joe Rogan that one time during a 36 00:01:53,120 --> 00:01:57,280 Speaker 7: taping of Rogan's podcast, so this wasn't exactly news, but 37 00:01:57,320 --> 00:02:01,480 Speaker 7: the anecdotes raise important questions like this impact Musk's status 38 00:02:01,520 --> 00:02:05,720 Speaker 7: as a federal contractor, especially given how much business SpaceX 39 00:02:06,000 --> 00:02:08,800 Speaker 7: does with the US government, And we'll dig into another 40 00:02:08,800 --> 00:02:12,360 Speaker 7: headache for Musk and SpaceX. Last week, the National Labor 41 00:02:12,400 --> 00:02:15,000 Speaker 7: Relations Board issued a complaint over the twenty twenty two 42 00:02:15,040 --> 00:02:19,280 Speaker 7: firings of SpaceX employees who were critical of Musk's tweeting. 43 00:02:20,680 --> 00:02:23,880 Speaker 7: SpaceX has since sued the NLRB in an attempt to 44 00:02:23,880 --> 00:02:27,760 Speaker 7: halt the case to discuss this and more, will convene 45 00:02:27,800 --> 00:02:30,920 Speaker 7: Lauren Grush, Bloomberg's expert on all things SpaceX. 46 00:02:31,080 --> 00:02:33,079 Speaker 6: Hi, Lauren, Hi, thanks for having me. 47 00:02:34,080 --> 00:02:38,040 Speaker 7: Dana Hole, the world's most tenacious tesla reporter, Hi, Dana, 48 00:02:38,840 --> 00:02:46,000 Speaker 7: good morning. And Max Chafkin, senior reporter at Bloomberg Business Week. Hello, Okay, Lauren, 49 00:02:46,000 --> 00:02:49,000 Speaker 7: I'm going to start with you. What did this article 50 00:02:49,600 --> 00:02:53,240 Speaker 7: say and was there anything newsworthy in here for you? 51 00:02:53,680 --> 00:02:56,040 Speaker 9: I would say the biggest things that stood out to 52 00:02:56,120 --> 00:03:00,360 Speaker 9: me of having covered SpaceX and this saga for some 53 00:03:00,480 --> 00:03:04,519 Speaker 9: time was an all hands meeting that occurred in twenty 54 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:09,480 Speaker 9: seventeen in which some executives were concerned about Elon's behavior. 55 00:03:09,720 --> 00:03:12,200 Speaker 6: Apparently he was slurring, and. 56 00:03:12,520 --> 00:03:15,960 Speaker 9: About fifteen minutes into the all hands Gwynn shot Well, 57 00:03:16,040 --> 00:03:19,919 Speaker 9: the president of SpaceX, supposedly had to step in and 58 00:03:20,440 --> 00:03:23,400 Speaker 9: take over the all hands meeting. And then I think 59 00:03:23,480 --> 00:03:27,640 Speaker 9: most of the article referred to or reference the twenty 60 00:03:27,680 --> 00:03:30,720 Speaker 9: eighteen Joe Rogan podcast incident, which I think a lot 61 00:03:30,760 --> 00:03:33,640 Speaker 9: of people are familiar with, in which Elon Musk, you know, 62 00:03:33,720 --> 00:03:38,160 Speaker 9: openly smoked something on Joe Rogan's podcast. 63 00:03:38,200 --> 00:03:40,040 Speaker 6: It's thought to be marijuana. 64 00:03:40,040 --> 00:03:41,880 Speaker 9: And that was a little more direct and that we 65 00:03:41,920 --> 00:03:44,680 Speaker 9: all saw that happen, But that one was well documented 66 00:03:44,720 --> 00:03:45,200 Speaker 9: at the time. 67 00:03:45,480 --> 00:03:49,040 Speaker 6: There was a lot of fallout from that. SpaceX or NASA, 68 00:03:49,360 --> 00:03:50,720 Speaker 6: you know, got concerned. 69 00:03:50,840 --> 00:03:54,800 Speaker 9: They did an audit of SpaceX and Boeing's safety cultures 70 00:03:55,280 --> 00:03:57,480 Speaker 9: in the wake of that incident. 71 00:03:58,560 --> 00:04:01,800 Speaker 7: Okay, you mentioned what happened on the Rogan podcast. We're 72 00:04:01,840 --> 00:04:03,840 Speaker 7: just going to play that episode so that everybody can 73 00:04:03,840 --> 00:04:04,760 Speaker 7: hear what went down. 74 00:04:06,560 --> 00:04:09,320 Speaker 4: So is that a joint a ciga? 75 00:04:09,680 --> 00:04:14,480 Speaker 7: It's no, okay, it's marijuana inside of a tobacco. 76 00:04:14,440 --> 00:04:16,640 Speaker 6: Okay, So it's like pot tobacco pod. 77 00:04:16,720 --> 00:04:17,240 Speaker 3: You never had that? 78 00:04:17,440 --> 00:04:18,760 Speaker 6: Yeah, I think I tried one once. 79 00:04:18,920 --> 00:04:23,800 Speaker 7: Come on, man, you probably can't because stockholders, right, I mean, 80 00:04:23,839 --> 00:04:24,560 Speaker 7: it's legal, right. 81 00:04:24,600 --> 00:04:26,279 Speaker 4: I think we call that a blunt Dana. 82 00:04:26,560 --> 00:04:29,200 Speaker 7: So, Dana, how do you feel like this Wall Street 83 00:04:29,279 --> 00:04:34,479 Speaker 7: journal reporting and story compares to the incident that Elon 84 00:04:34,960 --> 00:04:37,200 Speaker 7: waded through when he was on that Rogan podcast. 85 00:04:38,320 --> 00:04:40,520 Speaker 5: Yeah, Well, the timing of this is very interesting to me. 86 00:04:40,640 --> 00:04:43,839 Speaker 5: You know, twenty eighteen, Elon's companies were in a very 87 00:04:43,839 --> 00:04:47,560 Speaker 5: precarious position. SpaceX had not yet flown astronauts to the 88 00:04:47,600 --> 00:04:50,960 Speaker 5: space station. Tesla was struggling to ramp up the Model three, 89 00:04:51,279 --> 00:04:55,039 Speaker 5: and the guy was like exhausted trying to keep both 90 00:04:55,080 --> 00:04:57,960 Speaker 5: businesses afloat. It was like a really precarious time. And 91 00:04:57,960 --> 00:04:59,920 Speaker 5: then the Joe Rogan thing was just like the stupid 92 00:05:00,120 --> 00:05:02,880 Speaker 5: thing he could have done. Five years later, he's like 93 00:05:02,920 --> 00:05:05,559 Speaker 5: the richest man in the world. Both companies are doing great. 94 00:05:05,680 --> 00:05:08,680 Speaker 5: SpaceX is the dominant launch provider. Tesla is like the 95 00:05:08,720 --> 00:05:11,159 Speaker 5: best selling ev maker in the world, next to BYD. 96 00:05:12,040 --> 00:05:12,680 Speaker 3: From where I. 97 00:05:12,600 --> 00:05:16,760 Speaker 5: Sit, like Musk amplifying anti Semitism had a far more 98 00:05:17,000 --> 00:05:21,120 Speaker 5: severe market impact in terms of like stockholders being upset, 99 00:05:21,480 --> 00:05:25,520 Speaker 5: pension funds writing letters, the stock actually moving than like 100 00:05:25,560 --> 00:05:27,800 Speaker 5: this story about drug use. And I mean, I hate 101 00:05:27,839 --> 00:05:29,839 Speaker 5: to be to break it to like the school marms 102 00:05:29,880 --> 00:05:31,720 Speaker 5: and the audience, but a lot of people in tech 103 00:05:31,760 --> 00:05:34,400 Speaker 5: and finance do drugs like a lot. It is a 104 00:05:34,400 --> 00:05:37,320 Speaker 5: thing like and it's and I'm not trying to excuse 105 00:05:37,360 --> 00:05:41,360 Speaker 5: the behavior, but you know, like Steve Jobs openly talked 106 00:05:41,360 --> 00:05:45,239 Speaker 5: about how doing LSD like helps him become this creative genius. 107 00:05:45,240 --> 00:05:47,880 Speaker 5: And I think that for Musk's fans, the fact that 108 00:05:47,920 --> 00:05:51,680 Speaker 5: he is running all these companies while potentially being on 109 00:05:51,760 --> 00:05:54,320 Speaker 5: drugs is like another sign of how he's this like 110 00:05:54,400 --> 00:05:56,720 Speaker 5: incredible genius and blah blah blah, and it just sort 111 00:05:56,720 --> 00:05:58,160 Speaker 5: of feeds into his aura. 112 00:05:58,800 --> 00:06:01,600 Speaker 4: Okay, so there's you know, things that you've used before 113 00:06:01,720 --> 00:06:02,359 Speaker 4: that had. 114 00:06:02,200 --> 00:06:10,000 Speaker 7: Been known the ambients, the cannabis, but max LSD, cocaine, ecstasy, mushrooms, ketamine, 115 00:06:10,320 --> 00:06:14,080 Speaker 7: some of which are you know, ketamine in particular. He 116 00:06:14,120 --> 00:06:16,599 Speaker 7: seems to have a prescription to help him do his 117 00:06:16,680 --> 00:06:20,000 Speaker 7: thing with. But aren't those isn't that a different nature 118 00:06:20,040 --> 00:06:22,960 Speaker 7: of drug use when we were going into some illegal 119 00:06:23,040 --> 00:06:23,760 Speaker 7: territory either. 120 00:06:23,960 --> 00:06:26,640 Speaker 2: I mean, I think kind of what Dan is getting at, 121 00:06:26,680 --> 00:06:30,280 Speaker 2: like none of this is outside of the norm in 122 00:06:30,360 --> 00:06:31,680 Speaker 2: Silicon Valley, and. 123 00:06:32,320 --> 00:06:35,760 Speaker 4: If the Silicon valties in Texas. 124 00:06:34,720 --> 00:06:38,920 Speaker 2: As described by the Wall Street Journal, which is a 125 00:06:39,000 --> 00:06:43,159 Speaker 2: handful of isolated incidents. Rogan he smoked a doobie on 126 00:06:43,200 --> 00:06:46,040 Speaker 2: the Rogan podcast. He like takes some ketamine. There was 127 00:06:46,040 --> 00:06:49,159 Speaker 2: a party at Art Basel. It isn't that much. And 128 00:06:49,200 --> 00:06:52,240 Speaker 2: I think they're really like two possibilities here. One is 129 00:06:52,800 --> 00:06:55,760 Speaker 2: Elon Musk is doing a lot of weird stuff online 130 00:06:55,800 --> 00:06:57,279 Speaker 2: and we talk about it all the time, and some 131 00:06:57,320 --> 00:07:00,000 Speaker 2: of this stuff is damaging. And one way to talk 132 00:07:00,240 --> 00:07:02,680 Speaker 2: about that, if you are a Tesla board member or 133 00:07:02,720 --> 00:07:05,440 Speaker 2: SpaceX board member or a critic is to blame something 134 00:07:05,560 --> 00:07:08,920 Speaker 2: like drug use. The other possibility is maybe there's more 135 00:07:09,000 --> 00:07:11,640 Speaker 2: to this story that was unreported, and like that's kind 136 00:07:11,640 --> 00:07:13,920 Speaker 2: of what Dana is hinting at. Like, I guess that's 137 00:07:13,920 --> 00:07:16,600 Speaker 2: the other possibility, But as it exists now, it just 138 00:07:16,600 --> 00:07:18,640 Speaker 2: doesn't seem all that damning. 139 00:07:19,120 --> 00:07:21,080 Speaker 7: I'm going to bring up his response, which he posted 140 00:07:21,120 --> 00:07:24,320 Speaker 7: on X on Monday. Whatever I'm doing, I should obviously 141 00:07:24,440 --> 00:07:27,080 Speaker 7: keep doing it. And then he responded to himself a 142 00:07:27,120 --> 00:07:29,960 Speaker 7: little bit later or actually just another user, and said, 143 00:07:30,280 --> 00:07:33,920 Speaker 7: if drugs actually helped improve my net productivity over time, 144 00:07:34,040 --> 00:07:35,520 Speaker 7: I would definitely take them. 145 00:07:35,880 --> 00:07:37,920 Speaker 4: So let's see, he is a. 146 00:07:37,920 --> 00:07:41,120 Speaker 7: Drug user and is using them a lot. How does 147 00:07:41,160 --> 00:07:42,320 Speaker 7: this go over with his people? 148 00:07:42,880 --> 00:07:44,160 Speaker 3: I mean, the way you read that, it's funny. 149 00:07:44,200 --> 00:07:46,520 Speaker 2: It sounds like he said as he took a long 150 00:07:46,640 --> 00:07:49,200 Speaker 2: drag from a healthy joint. 151 00:07:49,520 --> 00:07:50,360 Speaker 3: It's hard to say. 152 00:07:50,480 --> 00:07:53,200 Speaker 2: I mean, I think he's we should also proviso like 153 00:07:53,480 --> 00:07:56,040 Speaker 2: it is not good to violate federal contracting rules if 154 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:58,559 Speaker 2: you are a federal contractor. But on the other hand, 155 00:07:58,600 --> 00:08:01,760 Speaker 2: it's very hard to see the US government taking any 156 00:08:01,840 --> 00:08:04,160 Speaker 2: kind of serious corrective action because, of course, as we've 157 00:08:04,160 --> 00:08:07,400 Speaker 2: talked about many times, they need SpaceX and and people 158 00:08:07,440 --> 00:08:10,760 Speaker 2: are not necessarily calling into question rockets. And also newsflash, 159 00:08:11,040 --> 00:08:15,080 Speaker 2: not a huge surprise that Elon Musk is not respecting laws, norms, 160 00:08:15,120 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 2: or regulations. 161 00:08:16,760 --> 00:08:19,360 Speaker 7: Dana, do you think there's any version of key man 162 00:08:19,480 --> 00:08:22,080 Speaker 7: risk here? Key Man risk being a term that we 163 00:08:22,120 --> 00:08:25,520 Speaker 7: talk about in corporations a lot around corporations, right if 164 00:08:25,720 --> 00:08:28,480 Speaker 7: if there is a CEO who can no longer do 165 00:08:28,600 --> 00:08:32,000 Speaker 7: his job or her job, perhaps the company that puts 166 00:08:32,000 --> 00:08:35,400 Speaker 7: the company at risk, do you think that there's any 167 00:08:35,480 --> 00:08:38,600 Speaker 7: version of this that key man risk plays out over 168 00:08:38,640 --> 00:08:39,240 Speaker 7: this scenario. 169 00:08:40,160 --> 00:08:43,200 Speaker 5: Well, so you know, Tesla and their regulatory filings always 170 00:08:43,280 --> 00:08:45,320 Speaker 5: talk about key man risk. I mean they always say 171 00:08:45,320 --> 00:08:47,720 Speaker 5: we are highly dependent on the services of Elon Musk, 172 00:08:47,720 --> 00:08:50,760 Speaker 5: who is not our full time CEO and runs several 173 00:08:50,800 --> 00:08:53,720 Speaker 5: other companies. And so yeah, I will like roll over 174 00:08:54,040 --> 00:08:56,160 Speaker 5: if like the next you know, ten if the ten 175 00:08:56,240 --> 00:08:59,319 Speaker 5: K says and like, our CEO is a drug addict 176 00:08:59,360 --> 00:09:01,120 Speaker 5: and there's a key man risk that he might go 177 00:09:01,160 --> 00:09:04,040 Speaker 5: to rehab and we'd be without like a CEO. I 178 00:09:04,040 --> 00:09:07,080 Speaker 5: mean that would be amazing. Elon is just not a 179 00:09:07,120 --> 00:09:09,440 Speaker 5: typical CEO, And I think that the trap that a 180 00:09:09,440 --> 00:09:12,400 Speaker 5: lot of journalists frankly fall into is like we're trying 181 00:09:12,400 --> 00:09:16,439 Speaker 5: to like establish these norms for him when he has 182 00:09:16,480 --> 00:09:19,520 Speaker 5: broken all the norms and been wildly successful at it. 183 00:09:19,679 --> 00:09:23,120 Speaker 5: And investors care about one thing, and that is the 184 00:09:23,160 --> 00:09:25,880 Speaker 5: return on their money. Like since he smoked pot on 185 00:09:25,920 --> 00:09:28,880 Speaker 5: the Joe Robins Show, which we all know was like 186 00:09:28,920 --> 00:09:32,600 Speaker 5: a big deal that really like hurt his reputation, hurt 187 00:09:32,600 --> 00:09:35,400 Speaker 5: his standing with NASA, caused this big fear, Like the 188 00:09:35,440 --> 00:09:37,520 Speaker 5: stock has returned I didn't even check. I don't know, 189 00:09:37,600 --> 00:09:40,720 Speaker 5: like what like twelve hundred percent. I mean, so like 190 00:09:40,960 --> 00:09:44,319 Speaker 5: fundamentally his the investors are like that they are used 191 00:09:44,360 --> 00:09:45,880 Speaker 5: to him being a weird guy. 192 00:09:46,800 --> 00:09:49,800 Speaker 2: I love that Dana is a four twenty friendly money 193 00:09:49,840 --> 00:09:53,400 Speaker 2: manager over here saying ever since he started smoking weed, 194 00:09:53,520 --> 00:09:55,199 Speaker 2: his the performance has improved. 195 00:09:55,240 --> 00:09:56,719 Speaker 5: You know, that's not to say that the I mean, 196 00:09:57,120 --> 00:10:00,199 Speaker 5: clearly it seems like the board has concerns, So you know, 197 00:10:00,280 --> 00:10:02,280 Speaker 5: I would love to know more about, like what exactly 198 00:10:02,280 --> 00:10:05,400 Speaker 5: were the concerns. But I mean, obviously I'm not trying 199 00:10:05,400 --> 00:10:06,560 Speaker 5: to be like, do drugs. 200 00:10:06,600 --> 00:10:07,319 Speaker 3: Drugs are great. 201 00:10:07,360 --> 00:10:10,400 Speaker 5: But I'm just saying that, like a lot of people 202 00:10:10,520 --> 00:10:13,200 Speaker 5: in power use drugs, and a lot of people in 203 00:10:13,200 --> 00:10:14,880 Speaker 5: power also use alcoholic as though. 204 00:10:15,040 --> 00:10:18,800 Speaker 2: If the financial performance turns around, then the story changes completely. 205 00:10:18,840 --> 00:10:20,920 Speaker 2: And Danis Strander wrote a story about this the other 206 00:10:21,000 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 2: day and made the point that, like this is going 207 00:10:23,120 --> 00:10:26,640 Speaker 2: to wind up in shareholder lawsuits, and and by going 208 00:10:26,640 --> 00:10:28,800 Speaker 2: around talking about how fun it is to mix red 209 00:10:28,800 --> 00:10:29,880 Speaker 2: wine and ambient you're. 210 00:10:29,840 --> 00:10:31,600 Speaker 3: Essentially giving ammunition to. 211 00:10:31,559 --> 00:10:33,920 Speaker 2: Critics if the stock ever takes a dive. Right now, 212 00:10:33,960 --> 00:10:36,520 Speaker 2: we've got a great Now, anyone who wants to explain 213 00:10:36,600 --> 00:10:39,080 Speaker 2: why companies aren't performing well, if they stop performing well, 214 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:40,280 Speaker 2: has a great story to tell. 215 00:10:40,440 --> 00:10:41,840 Speaker 5: I mean, you'd have to really prove that it was 216 00:10:41,920 --> 00:10:44,400 Speaker 5: because of the drug use. You'd have to like prove that, 217 00:10:44,520 --> 00:10:47,880 Speaker 5: like he made a critical decision that was bad for 218 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,240 Speaker 5: the company because he was on drugs at the time. 219 00:10:54,880 --> 00:10:57,000 Speaker 7: Lauren, I want to bring it back to you because 220 00:10:57,640 --> 00:11:00,760 Speaker 7: if there were one company that seems like it might 221 00:11:01,080 --> 00:11:02,760 Speaker 7: have to deal with this a little bit more than 222 00:11:02,760 --> 00:11:06,280 Speaker 7: anybody else, it would probably be SpaceX because of the 223 00:11:06,320 --> 00:11:09,960 Speaker 7: federal contracts the company has. And one thing that's different 224 00:11:10,200 --> 00:11:13,439 Speaker 7: now than in the broken episode was that, as I 225 00:11:13,440 --> 00:11:16,280 Speaker 7: think Dana alluded to earlier, this is how the US 226 00:11:16,440 --> 00:11:20,640 Speaker 7: gets astronauts to the International Space Station. So what might 227 00:11:20,720 --> 00:11:25,560 Speaker 7: happen in unfold at SpaceX or between SpaceX and you know, 228 00:11:25,679 --> 00:11:27,600 Speaker 7: any sort of drug testing that might have to go down. 229 00:11:27,720 --> 00:11:29,520 Speaker 9: Well, I think you kind of pointed out there's two 230 00:11:29,600 --> 00:11:32,000 Speaker 9: key things that I want to bring attention to and 231 00:11:32,040 --> 00:11:35,000 Speaker 9: why it's different now and why I think the response 232 00:11:35,040 --> 00:11:35,760 Speaker 9: will be different. 233 00:11:36,320 --> 00:11:37,640 Speaker 6: Back in twenty. 234 00:11:37,320 --> 00:11:40,840 Speaker 9: Eighteen, SpaceX hadn't launched people yet, so there was still 235 00:11:41,040 --> 00:11:43,600 Speaker 9: concern about whether or not this was a good idea 236 00:11:44,040 --> 00:11:47,320 Speaker 9: using commercial companies to actually launch astronauts in the International 237 00:11:47,400 --> 00:11:47,959 Speaker 9: Space Station. 238 00:11:48,480 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 6: And so when he took. 239 00:11:50,240 --> 00:11:53,679 Speaker 9: That drag, you know, they were thinking, Okay, maybe we 240 00:11:53,800 --> 00:11:57,640 Speaker 9: do one last gut check in terms of this space 241 00:11:57,880 --> 00:11:59,760 Speaker 9: the safety culture at these companies. 242 00:12:00,040 --> 00:12:02,000 Speaker 6: So that was really what prompted it. 243 00:12:02,480 --> 00:12:07,720 Speaker 9: Now, SpaceX has proven that it can safely deliver astronauts 244 00:12:07,760 --> 00:12:10,680 Speaker 9: to and from the International Space Station on a routine basis, 245 00:12:10,720 --> 00:12:15,400 Speaker 9: so giving up that capability is going to be extremely difficult. 246 00:12:15,559 --> 00:12:17,760 Speaker 9: The other thing that I think is different is that 247 00:12:19,040 --> 00:12:22,280 Speaker 9: we saw him take the hit on the Joe Rogan podcast, 248 00:12:22,360 --> 00:12:26,319 Speaker 9: Like we had direct evidence that he did that, Whereas 249 00:12:26,320 --> 00:12:29,839 Speaker 9: with this Wall Street Journal story, they're referencing that twenty 250 00:12:29,920 --> 00:12:33,360 Speaker 9: seventeen all hands meeting and they even said in the 251 00:12:33,400 --> 00:12:34,600 Speaker 9: story it could. 252 00:12:34,360 --> 00:12:37,120 Speaker 6: Not be determined if the reason for his slurring was. 253 00:12:37,160 --> 00:12:41,400 Speaker 9: Drugs, and SpaceX did post what appears to be the 254 00:12:41,440 --> 00:12:44,280 Speaker 9: all hands that was referenced in the Wall Street Journal article, 255 00:12:44,559 --> 00:12:47,959 Speaker 9: And having covered Elon for a long time, I watched 256 00:12:48,000 --> 00:12:52,439 Speaker 9: that video and it seemed pretty standard awkward public speaking 257 00:12:52,800 --> 00:12:56,120 Speaker 9: Elon to me. But I you know, I can't determine 258 00:12:56,160 --> 00:12:59,559 Speaker 9: what was going on before he took the stage in 259 00:12:59,600 --> 00:13:02,680 Speaker 9: that video. But point being, I don't think we have 260 00:13:02,760 --> 00:13:06,160 Speaker 9: a direct piece of evidence as we did with the 261 00:13:06,240 --> 00:13:11,160 Speaker 9: Joe Rogan podcast to prompt another substantial audit like NASA 262 00:13:11,200 --> 00:13:12,360 Speaker 9: did back in twenty eighteen. 263 00:13:12,600 --> 00:13:16,040 Speaker 7: Is it clear if Elon has ever taken a drug 264 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:19,640 Speaker 7: test and or passed or failed a drug test? 265 00:13:20,400 --> 00:13:22,400 Speaker 3: Max they've said he has. 266 00:13:22,760 --> 00:13:26,280 Speaker 2: I think our assumption is that he has and he's passed. 267 00:13:26,320 --> 00:13:29,400 Speaker 2: If I'm wrong, please correct me, Janna. 268 00:13:29,440 --> 00:13:31,520 Speaker 5: He's tweeted that he has, right, he tweeted that he 269 00:13:31,640 --> 00:13:36,240 Speaker 5: like was tested randomly tweeted or x x absord x 270 00:13:36,360 --> 00:13:40,640 Speaker 5: that he's okay, okay, randomly drug tested at SpaceX for 271 00:13:40,679 --> 00:13:43,480 Speaker 5: three years and always passed with flying colors. I mean, 272 00:13:43,840 --> 00:13:45,439 Speaker 5: you know, I don't know how. I don't know when 273 00:13:45,480 --> 00:13:48,680 Speaker 5: the most recent test was. I have no idea. 274 00:13:50,160 --> 00:13:52,360 Speaker 7: Okay, now we're going to focus on SpaceX and some 275 00:13:52,520 --> 00:13:56,920 Speaker 7: dueling stories that involve the National Labor Relations Board. The 276 00:13:57,120 --> 00:14:01,120 Speaker 7: NLRB issue to complaint about SpaceX and labor situation there 277 00:14:01,360 --> 00:14:04,480 Speaker 7: and is scheduled to hear that case in March. SpaceX 278 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 7: has since sued the NLRB, saying the agency is unconstitutional 279 00:14:09,040 --> 00:14:11,840 Speaker 7: and the suit should be dismissed. All of this relates 280 00:14:11,880 --> 00:14:14,520 Speaker 7: to a story that Lauren Grush broke for The Verge 281 00:14:14,760 --> 00:14:17,360 Speaker 7: before she joined Bloomberg. So Lauren, we're going to start 282 00:14:17,400 --> 00:14:17,600 Speaker 7: with you. 283 00:14:18,200 --> 00:14:18,440 Speaker 3: Yeah. 284 00:14:18,480 --> 00:14:21,360 Speaker 9: So that was a very intense week back in twenty 285 00:14:21,400 --> 00:14:25,200 Speaker 9: twenty two. Basically I was going home for the day, 286 00:14:25,240 --> 00:14:27,280 Speaker 9: which is when you get your best tips, you know, 287 00:14:27,480 --> 00:14:30,560 Speaker 9: and someone leaked to me that there was an internal 288 00:14:30,640 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 9: letter going around within SpaceX and it was a letter 289 00:14:37,200 --> 00:14:40,680 Speaker 9: posted to their Microsoft Teams channels, and that it was 290 00:14:41,080 --> 00:14:45,200 Speaker 9: pretty critical of Elon and they were saying, you know, 291 00:14:45,480 --> 00:14:48,320 Speaker 9: I think the line that I kept pulling for stories 292 00:14:48,400 --> 00:14:51,840 Speaker 9: was that he was a frequent source of embarrassment for 293 00:14:52,000 --> 00:14:55,320 Speaker 9: the company, and that they were calling on SpaceX to 294 00:14:55,680 --> 00:15:00,400 Speaker 9: distance itself from his public comments that they should be 295 00:15:00,400 --> 00:15:01,760 Speaker 9: better about sexual harassment. 296 00:15:01,800 --> 00:15:03,160 Speaker 4: How did the company respond? 297 00:15:03,800 --> 00:15:07,560 Speaker 9: Yeah, so it was the letter was up for about 298 00:15:07,640 --> 00:15:10,200 Speaker 9: a day and a half before they pulled it down 299 00:15:10,600 --> 00:15:15,840 Speaker 9: from the team's channels. And then after we published our report, 300 00:15:16,560 --> 00:15:18,920 Speaker 9: I started to hear that a bunch of the people 301 00:15:18,960 --> 00:15:22,480 Speaker 9: associated with the letter were getting fired. And then Gwynn 302 00:15:22,640 --> 00:15:27,560 Speaker 9: Shotwell sent out an email to the company, really really 303 00:15:28,120 --> 00:15:31,160 Speaker 9: peculiar email in my opinion, because it was basically saying 304 00:15:31,200 --> 00:15:34,600 Speaker 9: that these rogue employees I don't remember the exact text, 305 00:15:34,640 --> 00:15:37,280 Speaker 9: but it was like these rogue employees were distracting all 306 00:15:37,280 --> 00:15:41,400 Speaker 9: of their coworkers and harassing them by telling them to 307 00:15:41,480 --> 00:15:44,320 Speaker 9: sign on to this letter. You know, it is a 308 00:15:44,360 --> 00:15:48,280 Speaker 9: really very aggressive email, painting a negative picture of the employees. 309 00:15:48,440 --> 00:15:52,240 Speaker 9: And so it was a saga that ended very quickly 310 00:15:52,280 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 9: because they swiftly fired the employees. 311 00:15:55,040 --> 00:15:57,560 Speaker 6: And then after that I spoke with some. 312 00:15:57,560 --> 00:16:01,080 Speaker 9: Of the employees who were involved and they told me, 313 00:16:01,160 --> 00:16:03,120 Speaker 9: you know, how many people actually sign on to the 314 00:16:03,200 --> 00:16:05,320 Speaker 9: letter before it was taken down? It was hundreds of 315 00:16:05,360 --> 00:16:10,560 Speaker 9: employees but then yeah, after they were fired, they were discussing, 316 00:16:10,960 --> 00:16:13,600 Speaker 9: you know, whether that was actually a lawful move for 317 00:16:13,680 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 9: them to be terminated because they were simply expressing concerns 318 00:16:17,240 --> 00:16:18,920 Speaker 9: about their workplace conditions. 319 00:16:19,480 --> 00:16:24,760 Speaker 7: And shotwell, chief operating officer for SpaceX, what is the 320 00:16:24,800 --> 00:16:28,080 Speaker 7: most recent news then that's come out, because that was 321 00:16:28,440 --> 00:16:30,200 Speaker 7: everything that went down, there was twenty twenty two. 322 00:16:30,520 --> 00:16:32,280 Speaker 4: So here we are now twenty twenty four. 323 00:16:32,520 --> 00:16:37,120 Speaker 7: National Labor Relations Board files this complaint, which is technically 324 00:16:37,160 --> 00:16:41,200 Speaker 7: its first move. What does that complaint say and how 325 00:16:41,320 --> 00:16:42,800 Speaker 7: has SpaceX responded? 326 00:16:43,320 --> 00:16:47,640 Speaker 9: Yeah, so essentially it confirms what the employees were thinking, 327 00:16:47,800 --> 00:16:51,960 Speaker 9: is that they were illegally fired for voicing concerns about 328 00:16:52,000 --> 00:16:55,840 Speaker 9: their workplace conditions. And given the fact that Elon Musk 329 00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:58,560 Speaker 9: is the CEO of the company, you know, what he 330 00:16:58,680 --> 00:17:02,720 Speaker 9: says and does and be considered, you know, affecting people's 331 00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:07,200 Speaker 9: workplace and how they performed that job. And then not 332 00:17:08,040 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 9: very long after the complaint was issued, SpaceX sued the 333 00:17:13,119 --> 00:17:15,359 Speaker 9: And this is the part where it gets a little wonky, 334 00:17:15,400 --> 00:17:18,040 Speaker 9: but essentially they were saying that the way that the 335 00:17:18,160 --> 00:17:24,320 Speaker 9: NLRB is structured is unconstitutional, and so they're trying to basically. 336 00:17:23,920 --> 00:17:25,640 Speaker 6: Get out of it. But what was really. 337 00:17:25,440 --> 00:17:30,000 Speaker 9: Interesting about that lawsuit is SpaceX alleges that, you know, 338 00:17:30,400 --> 00:17:35,359 Speaker 9: the letter was a source of distraction for SpaceX employees, 339 00:17:35,480 --> 00:17:38,960 Speaker 9: and that the employees who were fired were fired for 340 00:17:39,320 --> 00:17:43,119 Speaker 9: violating various company policies. They didn't go into detail about it, 341 00:17:43,160 --> 00:17:46,919 Speaker 9: but that's that is their defense. That's the biggest defense 342 00:17:46,960 --> 00:17:49,400 Speaker 9: I've seen from SpaceX since this whole thing went down. 343 00:17:54,160 --> 00:17:56,520 Speaker 7: Louren, as best as you can tell, what's the vibe 344 00:17:57,040 --> 00:17:58,200 Speaker 7: within SpaceX right now? 345 00:17:58,960 --> 00:18:02,040 Speaker 9: I think the vibe, to be honest, is that everybody's 346 00:18:02,080 --> 00:18:04,320 Speaker 9: kind of putting their heads down and working. You know, 347 00:18:05,160 --> 00:18:09,760 Speaker 9: this was probably the first time I had seen employees 348 00:18:09,840 --> 00:18:15,600 Speaker 9: within the company openly speaking about Elon, and it sadly 349 00:18:15,680 --> 00:18:18,480 Speaker 9: confirmed a lot of their fears, which is that if 350 00:18:18,520 --> 00:18:21,880 Speaker 9: you do that, you'll get fired. And so I think 351 00:18:21,560 --> 00:18:24,440 Speaker 9: the vibe within the company is that they're just. 352 00:18:24,359 --> 00:18:25,960 Speaker 6: Not going to do that anymore. 353 00:18:26,040 --> 00:18:28,480 Speaker 9: You know, if they do, I will be surprised and 354 00:18:28,520 --> 00:18:31,199 Speaker 9: will happily report on it. But yeah, I think it 355 00:18:31,320 --> 00:18:34,720 Speaker 9: confirmed most people's suspicions that, you know, you can't speak 356 00:18:34,800 --> 00:18:36,720 Speaker 9: up against the boss or you'll be in trouble. 357 00:18:36,800 --> 00:18:39,520 Speaker 5: The reaction is also just sort of classic in that 358 00:18:40,080 --> 00:18:44,399 Speaker 5: now SpaceX is suing the NRB basically saying that what 359 00:18:44,440 --> 00:18:49,480 Speaker 5: they're doing is like unconstitutional overreach and really going like 360 00:18:49,600 --> 00:18:52,520 Speaker 5: guns blazing at the agency itself, which is, you know, 361 00:18:52,640 --> 00:18:55,280 Speaker 5: another sort of tactic that Elon has never shied away 362 00:18:55,280 --> 00:18:58,399 Speaker 5: from using. He thinks that regulation is run amok and 363 00:18:58,440 --> 00:19:01,000 Speaker 5: there's too many rules, and they're going to really go 364 00:19:01,160 --> 00:19:02,520 Speaker 5: all out after this agency. 365 00:19:02,760 --> 00:19:05,400 Speaker 2: And I gotta say, I do think talking about these 366 00:19:05,400 --> 00:19:07,879 Speaker 2: two stories kind of in tandem is instructive. 367 00:19:08,080 --> 00:19:10,080 Speaker 3: You mean the drug use plus one hundred percent? 368 00:19:10,119 --> 00:19:12,320 Speaker 2: Yeah, Because one hand, you know, there's this kind of 369 00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,960 Speaker 2: like divide where where there's like the weird stuff Elon 370 00:19:15,000 --> 00:19:18,240 Speaker 2: tweets and the stuff weird stuff he says, and then 371 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:21,439 Speaker 2: the stuff he actually does. And I really think we 372 00:19:21,520 --> 00:19:24,760 Speaker 2: spend probably and not just us, but investors and everybody, 373 00:19:24,800 --> 00:19:28,040 Speaker 2: spend probably too much time talking about the says versus 374 00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:28,480 Speaker 2: the does. 375 00:19:28,480 --> 00:19:30,240 Speaker 3: And he you know, here we have some. 376 00:19:30,200 --> 00:19:36,199 Speaker 2: Like legitimately bad behavior, right, we have credible allegations of 377 00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:39,360 Speaker 2: sexual harassment. There was also an earlier allegation made by 378 00:19:39,359 --> 00:19:42,600 Speaker 2: some SpaceX interns of sexual harassment at the company. Yes, 379 00:19:42,600 --> 00:19:46,959 Speaker 2: and the response, yeah, And the response was you know, 380 00:19:47,160 --> 00:19:50,560 Speaker 2: basically to shut it down to dictatorial. It's it's basically 381 00:19:50,640 --> 00:19:54,679 Speaker 2: the opposite of what Elon Musk says he is. You know, 382 00:19:54,720 --> 00:19:57,000 Speaker 2: you had you had employees who seem to be and 383 00:19:57,040 --> 00:19:59,080 Speaker 2: maybe I'm maybe I'm putting too much on them, but 384 00:19:59,200 --> 00:20:02,200 Speaker 2: and Lauren can correct, but seem to be raising number 385 00:20:02,200 --> 00:20:05,119 Speaker 2: one legitimate questions in a way that doesn't doesn't seem 386 00:20:05,200 --> 00:20:07,040 Speaker 2: from the outside to be not constructive. 387 00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:09,640 Speaker 3: It seems like they were attempting to address this real issue. 388 00:20:10,119 --> 00:20:12,240 Speaker 2: And yeah, and they were and they were squashed, right, 389 00:20:12,359 --> 00:20:15,360 Speaker 2: And that's concerning. And I'd say I'd argue more concerning 390 00:20:15,359 --> 00:20:17,120 Speaker 2: from like a perspective of safety and. 391 00:20:17,320 --> 00:20:19,120 Speaker 3: All the things, all the reasons you might be worried about. 392 00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:20,040 Speaker 3: Elon must drug use. 393 00:20:20,280 --> 00:20:22,840 Speaker 2: This should concern you because, like what happens if there's 394 00:20:22,880 --> 00:20:24,959 Speaker 2: a legitimate if there's a door faull not to you know, 395 00:20:25,160 --> 00:20:27,760 Speaker 2: make the Boeing comparison, but right there's the doors falling 396 00:20:27,760 --> 00:20:30,639 Speaker 2: off of these Boeing jets. You know what happens if 397 00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,080 Speaker 2: there's a similar safety problem you have employees calling attention 398 00:20:33,160 --> 00:20:35,640 Speaker 2: to it. You want to have reporting mechanisms. You don't 399 00:20:35,640 --> 00:20:38,919 Speaker 2: want to have a company that just shuts down any dissent. 400 00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:41,920 Speaker 2: It's really bad at any company, and it seems especially 401 00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,360 Speaker 2: bad at a company like SpaceX and Dan. 402 00:20:44,480 --> 00:20:47,600 Speaker 7: If there is one thing that sort of linked thematically 403 00:20:47,640 --> 00:20:49,800 Speaker 7: some of Elon's company, it would seem to be labor 404 00:20:49,840 --> 00:20:51,880 Speaker 7: relations and sort of the poor state of them. There's 405 00:20:52,240 --> 00:20:56,080 Speaker 7: SpaceX and X obviously when it went through the transition 406 00:20:56,160 --> 00:20:59,960 Speaker 7: from Twitter Tesla. We've had multiple in the l R 407 00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:03,520 Speaker 7: stories there. What about the other ones in his universe, 408 00:21:03,720 --> 00:21:05,960 Speaker 7: you know, the neuralink and the boring. Is there anything 409 00:21:05,960 --> 00:21:06,600 Speaker 7: else out there? 410 00:21:07,160 --> 00:21:08,640 Speaker 5: Well, I guess I would just say that I think 411 00:21:08,680 --> 00:21:13,399 Speaker 5: that fundamentally a lot of employees really take pride in 412 00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:18,119 Speaker 5: their work, particularly engineers. I mean, these are mission driven companies. 413 00:21:17,680 --> 00:21:20,520 Speaker 4: That have within Eons companies in Elons companies. 414 00:21:20,600 --> 00:21:22,640 Speaker 5: Yeah, I mean these are mission driven companies and people 415 00:21:22,680 --> 00:21:25,000 Speaker 5: are really drawn to the mission, and people really like 416 00:21:25,920 --> 00:21:30,280 Speaker 5: working there in general, and they wear the SpaceX jackets 417 00:21:30,320 --> 00:21:33,280 Speaker 5: and the Tesla ball caps and like there's just like 418 00:21:33,280 --> 00:21:35,159 Speaker 5: an enormous amount of pride. I think you have to 419 00:21:35,200 --> 00:21:38,159 Speaker 5: separate out like working for the company and working for Elon, 420 00:21:38,800 --> 00:21:41,680 Speaker 5: But yeah, I mean these are not unionized workforces, and 421 00:21:41,760 --> 00:21:45,040 Speaker 5: like any effort to unionize or criticize your leader is 422 00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:48,359 Speaker 5: like completely shut down, like almost instantly, which is what 423 00:21:48,359 --> 00:21:50,879 Speaker 5: we've seen at all of his companies. I mean, I 424 00:21:50,920 --> 00:21:53,879 Speaker 5: can't speak to Neuralincoln boring, but like you can't criticize 425 00:21:53,920 --> 00:21:55,080 Speaker 5: the boss basically. 426 00:21:55,080 --> 00:21:57,680 Speaker 9: I also think the through line through these two stories 427 00:21:57,760 --> 00:22:01,080 Speaker 9: is kind of like the double standard of when Elon's 428 00:22:01,200 --> 00:22:04,000 Speaker 9: antics are a problem and when they aren't. You know, 429 00:22:04,600 --> 00:22:08,199 Speaker 9: when he smoked pot, you know, everyone was very upset 430 00:22:08,240 --> 00:22:11,240 Speaker 9: because there is a very clear clause in NASA contracts 431 00:22:11,240 --> 00:22:14,400 Speaker 9: that stays that you're supposed to have a drug free workforce. 432 00:22:14,440 --> 00:22:15,040 Speaker 6: But I think what. 433 00:22:15,040 --> 00:22:17,720 Speaker 9: SpaceX tried to do after that was say, oh, you know, 434 00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:20,720 Speaker 9: this wasn't a big deal. You know, look see we 435 00:22:20,760 --> 00:22:22,119 Speaker 9: have a totally. 436 00:22:21,800 --> 00:22:23,720 Speaker 6: Drug free workforce. It's totally fine. 437 00:22:24,160 --> 00:22:27,600 Speaker 9: But then when you call out behavior about sexual harassment 438 00:22:27,640 --> 00:22:30,560 Speaker 9: and making light of sexual harassment, then they say, oh, 439 00:22:30,600 --> 00:22:33,280 Speaker 9: you can't do that. You know, Elon is SpaceX and 440 00:22:33,320 --> 00:22:35,639 Speaker 9: SpaceX is Elon. That was something that one of the 441 00:22:36,240 --> 00:22:37,080 Speaker 9: vice presidents said. 442 00:22:37,080 --> 00:22:37,560 Speaker 6: So it's like. 443 00:22:38,000 --> 00:22:41,600 Speaker 9: There's the moving goalpost of when we are allowed to 444 00:22:42,119 --> 00:22:44,840 Speaker 9: be upset about Elon's behavior and when you can't criticize 445 00:22:44,920 --> 00:22:45,360 Speaker 9: him at all. 446 00:22:49,480 --> 00:22:52,920 Speaker 7: Now for our final segment of the week, Feud of 447 00:22:52,960 --> 00:22:55,720 Speaker 7: the Week, Max Chapkin, Do you know who the feud 448 00:22:55,800 --> 00:22:56,960 Speaker 7: with between Elon? 449 00:22:57,200 --> 00:23:02,000 Speaker 2: Oh man, it's my favorite other billionaires professional wrestlers not 450 00:23:02,080 --> 00:23:04,800 Speaker 2: named Mark Zuckerberg, Mark Cuban, who's kind of like the 451 00:23:04,840 --> 00:23:08,520 Speaker 2: original in some ways, like a pioneer of the trolling, 452 00:23:08,920 --> 00:23:10,400 Speaker 2: you know, billionaire category. 453 00:23:10,480 --> 00:23:13,000 Speaker 4: But I think Elon took that to new heights. Oh yeah, yeah, 454 00:23:13,040 --> 00:23:14,600 Speaker 4: So what is the feud with Mark Cuban? 455 00:23:14,800 --> 00:23:17,080 Speaker 2: Okay, So, so Elon Musk has been you know, for 456 00:23:17,119 --> 00:23:17,879 Speaker 2: whatever reason. 457 00:23:18,240 --> 00:23:20,199 Speaker 3: We can debate, you know, going on and on and 458 00:23:20,240 --> 00:23:21,520 Speaker 3: on and on and on and. 459 00:23:21,480 --> 00:23:23,639 Speaker 2: On about you know, the woke mind virus and the 460 00:23:23,720 --> 00:23:26,840 Speaker 2: and the evils of diversity in the workplace. Again, this 461 00:23:26,920 --> 00:23:28,920 Speaker 2: is probably a potential problem for some of the companies arounds, 462 00:23:28,920 --> 00:23:31,840 Speaker 2: but let's leave that aside. Mark Cuban chimed in and 463 00:23:31,880 --> 00:23:36,040 Speaker 2: offered was really like just a kind of bland, i'd say, 464 00:23:36,480 --> 00:23:40,919 Speaker 2: kind of conventional wisdom y defense of diversity, equity and 465 00:23:40,960 --> 00:23:45,560 Speaker 2: inclusion in companies. Mark Cuban saying essentially, hey, like this 466 00:23:45,680 --> 00:23:48,240 Speaker 2: allows us to to you know, overcome some of our 467 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:52,280 Speaker 2: biases to hire from from more diverse pools of people 468 00:23:52,359 --> 00:23:53,840 Speaker 2: get considered new perspectives. 469 00:23:54,000 --> 00:23:55,040 Speaker 3: It also should say. 470 00:23:54,840 --> 00:23:57,400 Speaker 2: Mark Cuban a big time libertarian, right, you know, too 471 00:23:57,440 --> 00:24:00,159 Speaker 2: much for Elon Musk, and he's basically essentially spent the 472 00:24:00,160 --> 00:24:04,200 Speaker 2: next few days, you know, calling Mark Cuban a racist cringe, 473 00:24:04,600 --> 00:24:08,080 Speaker 2: you know, essentially using Mark Cuban as a punchline for 474 00:24:08,119 --> 00:24:10,760 Speaker 2: his conservative followers. Which let's be honest, it's not that 475 00:24:10,840 --> 00:24:12,359 Speaker 2: hard to do that with Mark Cuban. I mean, there 476 00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:14,760 Speaker 2: is a lot that is obnoxious and cringe and so 477 00:24:14,840 --> 00:24:17,919 Speaker 2: on about Mark Cuban. So so it's kind of like 478 00:24:17,960 --> 00:24:20,679 Speaker 2: easy pickens. And we have what essentially is like a 479 00:24:20,680 --> 00:24:23,360 Speaker 2: professional wrestling match between two billionaires. 480 00:24:23,080 --> 00:24:25,719 Speaker 7: Which you know, we've we've seen this unfold before. How 481 00:24:25,760 --> 00:24:27,160 Speaker 7: has Cuban responded so far? 482 00:24:28,160 --> 00:24:31,400 Speaker 2: He's continued to offer sensible And I can't believe I'm 483 00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:33,280 Speaker 2: saying this because again, like this is a guy who 484 00:24:33,480 --> 00:24:35,520 Speaker 2: you know, is famous for getting fined by the NBA 485 00:24:35,760 --> 00:24:38,280 Speaker 2: and is you know, a shark tank judge, Like I'm 486 00:24:38,280 --> 00:24:39,840 Speaker 2: gonna be careful, but it has not always behaved like 487 00:24:39,880 --> 00:24:44,399 Speaker 2: the most serious figure, but has generally attempted to like 488 00:24:44,800 --> 00:24:49,560 Speaker 2: defend DEI in libertarian friendly ways and is essentially just 489 00:24:49,600 --> 00:24:52,960 Speaker 2: getting shouted down by you know, Elon and his his buddies, 490 00:24:53,200 --> 00:24:55,359 Speaker 2: and it seems like both are kind of riding the 491 00:24:55,600 --> 00:24:56,560 Speaker 2: engagement wave on this. 492 00:24:56,760 --> 00:24:59,919 Speaker 7: Okay, Dana, I'm gonna ask for an impartial view of 493 00:25:00,080 --> 00:25:03,080 Speaker 7: feud of the weeks? How does this one rink compared 494 00:25:03,119 --> 00:25:06,000 Speaker 7: to other feuds of the week that Elon Musk has had. 495 00:25:06,200 --> 00:25:08,000 Speaker 5: I would call it a mid level feud. 496 00:25:08,200 --> 00:25:10,760 Speaker 4: I mean, yeah, like a simmering five. Like is it 497 00:25:10,800 --> 00:25:13,120 Speaker 4: reached like rolling boil yet? Yeah. 498 00:25:13,359 --> 00:25:16,119 Speaker 5: I think what's interesting to me is that, Okay, you 499 00:25:16,160 --> 00:25:20,040 Speaker 5: have to remember that Tesla is currently being sued by 500 00:25:20,160 --> 00:25:24,000 Speaker 5: the EEOC and the State of California for anti black 501 00:25:24,119 --> 00:25:28,160 Speaker 5: racism at its factory in California. And you know, Tesla 502 00:25:28,320 --> 00:25:31,760 Speaker 5: has an incredibly diverse workplace, and the company releases first 503 00:25:31,760 --> 00:25:34,879 Speaker 5: ever DEI report in twenty twenty. Now, the DEI stuff 504 00:25:34,960 --> 00:25:37,760 Speaker 5: is always part of the annual impact report. So you 505 00:25:37,840 --> 00:25:40,439 Speaker 5: have this company that has made in enormous strides in 506 00:25:40,480 --> 00:25:44,280 Speaker 5: terms of DEI as a corporation, and now the CEO 507 00:25:44,440 --> 00:25:48,280 Speaker 5: is basically crapping all over DEI saying that it's reverse racism. 508 00:25:48,840 --> 00:25:51,280 Speaker 5: So I just really wonder, like, is Tesla going to 509 00:25:51,359 --> 00:25:54,240 Speaker 5: have a DEI report for twenty twenty three or not, Like, 510 00:25:54,359 --> 00:25:57,160 Speaker 5: is that work being dismantled? Like what exactly are they 511 00:25:57,200 --> 00:25:58,480 Speaker 5: doing at the company level here? 512 00:25:58,800 --> 00:25:59,920 Speaker 3: It's easy to sort of laugh. 513 00:26:00,119 --> 00:26:03,120 Speaker 2: This is like two you know, billionaires barking at each 514 00:26:03,119 --> 00:26:06,320 Speaker 2: other loudly Texas billionaires. Yeah, but if you're if you 515 00:26:06,400 --> 00:26:08,680 Speaker 2: are like a person of color at one of these companies, 516 00:26:09,240 --> 00:26:11,840 Speaker 2: like it would feel pretty bad to have to like 517 00:26:12,160 --> 00:26:16,640 Speaker 2: have you know, basically a very pretty sensible explanation of 518 00:26:16,680 --> 00:26:19,480 Speaker 2: like why it makes sense to not hire an exclusively 519 00:26:19,520 --> 00:26:22,159 Speaker 2: white male workforce, and to just have that kind of 520 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,800 Speaker 2: laughed off. Like this kind of thing is like it 521 00:26:24,880 --> 00:26:27,960 Speaker 2: isn't good for sort of regulatory reasons, but also just 522 00:26:28,000 --> 00:26:29,520 Speaker 2: for like morale reasons and so on. 523 00:26:29,720 --> 00:26:31,520 Speaker 3: It strikes me as not great. 524 00:26:31,760 --> 00:26:34,720 Speaker 9: I also want to point that, if you know, given 525 00:26:34,800 --> 00:26:37,639 Speaker 9: my experience with SpaceX and when I know about SpaceX, 526 00:26:38,000 --> 00:26:40,280 Speaker 9: it does fly in the face of at least past 527 00:26:40,359 --> 00:26:43,760 Speaker 9: experience because they do have DEI efforts. They have women's 528 00:26:43,760 --> 00:26:47,320 Speaker 9: groups within the company that they celebrate. You know, Gwynn 529 00:26:47,400 --> 00:26:51,399 Speaker 9: has also spoken publicly about trying to do better in 530 00:26:51,480 --> 00:26:54,760 Speaker 9: terms of boosting diversity within the company. So I don't 531 00:26:54,760 --> 00:26:56,600 Speaker 9: know if that's going to change, but I at least 532 00:26:56,640 --> 00:27:00,439 Speaker 9: know past efforts that SpaceX have tried to, you know, 533 00:27:00,480 --> 00:27:01,520 Speaker 9: make that a priority. 534 00:27:01,800 --> 00:27:03,800 Speaker 2: A som branding to this feud of the way, I 535 00:27:03,840 --> 00:27:05,760 Speaker 2: will say, I think it's like Dan is right, It's 536 00:27:05,760 --> 00:27:08,600 Speaker 2: like a mid tier feud. This is not like, this 537 00:27:08,680 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 2: is not your like you know, Michelin Star eleven course 538 00:27:12,600 --> 00:27:14,000 Speaker 2: tasting menu of feuds. 539 00:27:14,000 --> 00:27:15,160 Speaker 3: This is like I mean. 540 00:27:16,760 --> 00:27:19,800 Speaker 2: Right, I mean like solid midweek date night. You know, 541 00:27:19,840 --> 00:27:21,800 Speaker 2: it's like a farm to table restaurant. It's like it's 542 00:27:21,800 --> 00:27:25,040 Speaker 2: pretty good, but like not, you know, nothing, nothing out 543 00:27:25,040 --> 00:27:28,399 Speaker 2: of the ordinary. 544 00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:32,879 Speaker 7: Max Chafkin, Lauren Grush, Dana Hole, thanks so much for 545 00:27:32,960 --> 00:27:34,400 Speaker 7: joining us on Eloning. 546 00:27:35,200 --> 00:27:36,000 Speaker 5: Always a pleasure. 547 00:27:36,480 --> 00:27:37,360 Speaker 6: Thanks for having me. 548 00:27:37,760 --> 00:27:38,480 Speaker 3: Great to be here. 549 00:27:45,400 --> 00:27:48,920 Speaker 7: This episode was produced by Stacy Wong. Naomi Shaven and 550 00:27:49,000 --> 00:27:51,240 Speaker 7: Rayhan Harmanci are our senior editors. 551 00:27:51,840 --> 00:27:52,560 Speaker 4: The idea for this. 552 00:27:52,600 --> 00:27:56,440 Speaker 7: Very show also came from Rayhon Blake Maple's Handles Engineering, 553 00:27:56,720 --> 00:28:00,080 Speaker 7: and we get special editing assistants from Jeff Grocut. Our 554 00:28:00,119 --> 00:28:01,480 Speaker 7: supervising producer. 555 00:28:01,160 --> 00:28:02,120 Speaker 4: Is Magnus Hendrickson. 556 00:28:02,920 --> 00:28:06,439 Speaker 7: That Elon and theme is written and performed by Taka 557 00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:10,760 Speaker 7: Yazazawa and Alex Segura. Saige Bauman is the head of 558 00:28:10,760 --> 00:28:12,880 Speaker 7: Bloomberg Podcast and our executive producer. 559 00:28:13,480 --> 00:28:14,320 Speaker 4: I'm Joel Webber. 560 00:28:14,560 --> 00:28:18,439 Speaker 7: David Pappadopoulos will finally be back next week. If you 561 00:28:18,440 --> 00:28:21,440 Speaker 7: have a minute, please rate and review our show and 562 00:28:21,560 --> 00:28:23,240 Speaker 7: we'll help other listeners find us. 563 00:28:23,600 --> 00:28:25,000 Speaker 4: See you next week.