WEBVTT - Guru Of Blockchain 0:00:04.600 --> 0:00:07.680 So the big question is this, how do investors like 0:00:07.880 --> 0:00:11.800 us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly, 0:00:12.039 --> 0:00:14.880 the right people that give us the tools and information 0:00:14.960 --> 0:00:19.000 we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success. 0:00:19.600 --> 0:00:22.360 That is the question, and this podcast will give us 0:00:22.360 --> 0:00:25.520 the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get 0:00:25.520 --> 0:00:30.240 this started. Welcome to another episode of the Market Disruptors podcast. 0:00:30.520 --> 0:00:34.440 Today we are joined by Chris kem here from Susteny Capital. 0:00:34.800 --> 0:00:38.599 He is an investor in the blockchain space. However, he's 0:00:38.680 --> 0:00:42.000 much more than that. He's a technologist, a futurist. He's 0:00:42.000 --> 0:00:46.720 an attorney. He's been through the Internet um bubble. He's 0:00:46.920 --> 0:00:49.959 built companies, sold them off at the peak. He's been there, 0:00:50.000 --> 0:00:51.519 done that, and he has a unique view in this. 0:00:51.640 --> 0:00:54.520 In this episode, we're gonna dig into his past. We're 0:00:54.520 --> 0:00:58.360 gonna talk about how he built inside the Internet stages. 0:00:58.360 --> 0:01:00.160 We're gonna talk about how he exited at the top, 0:01:00.160 --> 0:01:02.440 what he learned from that. We're gonna talk about where 0:01:02.480 --> 0:01:06.280 he sees the current blockchain space today, where he's looking 0:01:06.319 --> 0:01:09.000 to focus on investing, and where he sees it in 0:01:09.040 --> 0:01:11.399 the near future. It's an amazing conversation, one that I 0:01:11.440 --> 0:01:15.440 really enjoyed, and let's just jump right into it, all right. 0:01:15.440 --> 0:01:18.199 Welcome everybody. I have a special guest today, Chris from 0:01:18.200 --> 0:01:22.039 Susthany Capital. He's got a very very interesting UM story 0:01:22.120 --> 0:01:24.560 and perspective on the markets. I learned about at a 0:01:24.640 --> 0:01:27.240 conference at on Chain nineteen about a week or two ago, 0:01:27.560 --> 0:01:29.160 and I really wanted to bring him on and talk 0:01:29.240 --> 0:01:33.720 more about that. So UM, Chris from Sustany Capital. Welcome, Hey, Mark, 0:01:35.120 --> 0:01:37.880 all right, so UM, as I alluded to, UH, I 0:01:37.959 --> 0:01:40.880 heard you speak at on Chain UM in Newport Beach 0:01:40.959 --> 0:01:43.800 and and I really liked your perspective on the markets. 0:01:44.040 --> 0:01:46.440 And what I really liked was your story of how 0:01:46.480 --> 0:01:49.760 you've been through these technology cycles before. And I thought, 0:01:50.200 --> 0:01:52.760 I thought that you had a different perspective that I 0:01:52.800 --> 0:01:55.160 aligned with. But I don't hear a lot, and uh, 0:01:55.200 --> 0:01:57.120 I think it's missing, and so I wanted to talk 0:01:57.160 --> 0:01:59.200 to you more about that. So maybe you can just 0:01:59.240 --> 0:02:02.040 kind of explain to everybody, UM your background and kind 0:02:02.040 --> 0:02:04.600 of how you got here. Sure, I'm sort of a 0:02:04.600 --> 0:02:08.160 field technologist. I want to become a computer program in 0:02:08.200 --> 0:02:10.639 the eighties and I was doing the day during those 0:02:10.680 --> 0:02:14.799 days when there was basically just basic programming and so forth, 0:02:14.840 --> 0:02:17.400 and everything was pretty slow and mostly for me. The 0:02:17.440 --> 0:02:19.600 one thing that I remember was very hard on your 0:02:19.600 --> 0:02:23.560 eyes because the monitors back then we're just not really great. 0:02:23.919 --> 0:02:26.639 So I would write my bicycle home for my internship 0:02:26.720 --> 0:02:28.919 over it seems next of at the time, and I 0:02:28.960 --> 0:02:31.600 would see stars in the middle of the day because 0:02:32.000 --> 0:02:36.320 my eyes get really so impacted so badly that I decided, oh, 0:02:36.360 --> 0:02:39.200 I should be looking for something else that doesn't impact 0:02:39.200 --> 0:02:41.639 my health as bad. So it became a lawyer instead, 0:02:43.000 --> 0:02:45.760 which is kind of a unique breed in essence, there's 0:02:45.800 --> 0:02:50.760 not too many lawyers or vice versa computer scientists, um 0:02:50.840 --> 0:02:57.440 that have kind of this cross perspective. Yeah, but definitely, definitely, 0:02:57.520 --> 0:03:00.440 I definitely I did a good blend. I yes, it's 0:03:00.440 --> 0:03:04.360 it's usual today maybe yeah, I mean today. And again 0:03:04.400 --> 0:03:07.960 that's kind of me being biased obviously with my particular background, 0:03:08.040 --> 0:03:10.640 but it seems to me that a lot of the 0:03:10.680 --> 0:03:15.000 blockchain implementations that can be had a mix of those 0:03:15.040 --> 0:03:18.080 two topics and a few others obviously, like mechanics and 0:03:18.120 --> 0:03:21.120 economics and whatnot. But there's a lot of what I 0:03:21.160 --> 0:03:25.280 call legal technology or rec tech involved in that particular space, 0:03:25.400 --> 0:03:28.160 and it's needless to say, outside of coding, and that's 0:03:28.160 --> 0:03:31.360 the one topic that comes up all the times, that 0:03:31.440 --> 0:03:36.000 topic of regulation. All buy it often mostly misguided in 0:03:36.080 --> 0:03:40.480 my opinion, and again that's me having more international background 0:03:40.480 --> 0:03:44.880 and not necessarily being indoctrinated in any particular paradigm. Well, 0:03:44.880 --> 0:03:47.800 the the international background is very important because this is 0:03:47.840 --> 0:03:49.960 a global movement, and a lot of times people get 0:03:49.960 --> 0:03:53.080 stuck in just their view of the local, their local 0:03:53.320 --> 0:03:56.360 currency or whatever, and they forget about the global movement. 0:03:56.400 --> 0:03:59.560 But before we get into that, let's talk about your 0:03:59.600 --> 0:04:01.800 involved then in there in the Internet days, which a 0:04:01.800 --> 0:04:04.280 lot of times people draw parallels to, they were both 0:04:04.600 --> 0:04:07.160 new technologies, if you will, so tell us a little 0:04:07.160 --> 0:04:09.960 bit about your experience and the Internet days. Sure, I 0:04:10.040 --> 0:04:12.640 was still in law school. I joined a little startup 0:04:12.760 --> 0:04:17.440 on another consulting site to help them build what was 0:04:17.520 --> 0:04:24.600 then UM an idea for the multi um platform voice applications, 0:04:24.600 --> 0:04:27.159 so kind of a unified messaging system of sorts, and 0:04:27.200 --> 0:04:28.880 that was the way ahead of its time. We did 0:04:28.880 --> 0:04:32.120 this a ninety four, so let's to give you an idea. 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:34.720 It's still ahead of its time today. So it's kind 0:04:34.720 --> 0:04:38.280 of the idea of having a unified messaging system that 0:04:38.440 --> 0:04:41.479 would you do. It would let you do crossovers between 0:04:42.040 --> 0:04:45.320 voice and email and voice and text and so force. 0:04:45.400 --> 0:04:50.000 And we're still still not there, um. But because of 0:04:50.040 --> 0:04:54.360 that telecomverlation, I got really interested in then a new 0:04:54.400 --> 0:04:58.840 regulation at space. So this was closely before the European 0:04:58.960 --> 0:05:05.240 Union opened up tele communications to alternate carriers, meaning before that, specifically, 0:05:05.240 --> 0:05:07.920 in Germany, you only had one telephone carrier, which was 0:05:07.960 --> 0:05:10.720 about to Tailor Comment at the time, UM. But they 0:05:10.720 --> 0:05:13.840 were about to opening open the markets, and so they 0:05:13.839 --> 0:05:19.280 were circulating um suggestions for the regulation of that space. 0:05:19.320 --> 0:05:21.559 And I was one of the very very few nerds 0:05:21.600 --> 0:05:24.800 who would read those and then sort of also understand them. 0:05:24.880 --> 0:05:28.040 And I had my eyes set on one particular part 0:05:28.080 --> 0:05:33.680 of the regulation which would hopefully be used to guide 0:05:33.760 --> 0:05:36.159 the regulation in the space that we were interested in 0:05:36.360 --> 0:05:40.200 of this particular communications tool. And they're at the regulation 0:05:40.400 --> 0:05:43.640 and the suggestion didn't fit my my idea of how 0:05:43.680 --> 0:05:48.280 that should work at all. So, like the stupid mid 0:05:48.320 --> 0:05:50.240 twenty year old that I was at the time, I 0:05:50.360 --> 0:05:53.040 just sat down and rewrote the entire thing and send 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:57.360 it into the Federal Communications Commission, and lo and behold, 0:05:57.400 --> 0:06:00.960 they called me back and invited me to work with 0:06:01.000 --> 0:06:04.840 them on that particular legislation, and so long story short, 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:08.080 they ended up using what I wrote that weekend. But 0:06:08.440 --> 0:06:12.240 they're more interesting, he really is. UM. That made me 0:06:12.360 --> 0:06:14.359 kind of an expert, one of the very few in 0:06:14.400 --> 0:06:18.560 a particular space, because initially internet and telecommunication was into 0:06:19.440 --> 0:06:22.599 very entwined. Right. You probably remember you had to pay 0:06:22.640 --> 0:06:25.440 for a minute for your dial up services and number 0:06:25.520 --> 0:06:27.839 was the case for much longer and back in Europe 0:06:27.839 --> 0:06:31.599 than it was year and so I ended up becoming 0:06:31.640 --> 0:06:34.960 general counsel for one of the very early internet service providers, 0:06:35.640 --> 0:06:39.839 and we grew the company very rapidly, mostly by having 0:06:39.880 --> 0:06:42.800 a lot of people running around physically installing those dial 0:06:42.880 --> 0:06:46.520 upe models and configuring people's dialogue cards to our dial 0:06:46.560 --> 0:06:49.200 in numbers. So we were able to gobble up like 0:06:49.480 --> 0:06:52.239 I want to say, three and sixty thousand subscribers women 0:06:52.320 --> 0:06:55.559 like eighteen months and what what what? What time period 0:06:55.640 --> 0:06:59.719 was this? That was between night? So ninety eight if 0:06:59.720 --> 0:07:01.920 you're number was the first fifty six kme more thin 0:07:02.560 --> 0:07:06.720 funny enough and so over fifty well, but I say 0:07:07.880 --> 0:07:10.480 two thousand and then at the beginning of two thousand, Um, 0:07:10.560 --> 0:07:14.160 I was preparing for an initial public offering and at 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.600 the time we were valued at a billion dollars based 0:07:16.600 --> 0:07:19.280 on r L subscriber valuations, so we were kind of 0:07:19.280 --> 0:07:23.160 the e L of Germany at the time, and um, 0:07:23.560 --> 0:07:28.160 we gotta takeover offer. And yeah, long, long story short, 0:07:28.320 --> 0:07:31.119 I convinced the rest of the management team we should 0:07:31.120 --> 0:07:33.520 take it because I simply couldn't see how we could 0:07:33.520 --> 0:07:36.560 ever make that much money out of our subscriber base. 0:07:36.640 --> 0:07:38.880 So we saw the company at the height of the 0:07:38.960 --> 0:07:43.080 dot com essentially to what's now the largest internet service 0:07:43.160 --> 0:07:47.320 provider in Europe Discolleague, and yeah, we couldn't have time 0:07:47.400 --> 0:07:49.800 did better or buy it. At the time when we sold, 0:07:49.840 --> 0:07:52.880 everybody around us told us we were dummies because we 0:07:52.960 --> 0:07:55.560 were selling for like thirty five cents on the dollar 0:07:56.160 --> 0:07:59.480 forty six and a half to be precise. But it 0:07:59.520 --> 0:08:02.560 worked out really, really well, and more importantly, I retired 0:08:02.600 --> 0:08:04.600 from the law that day when we sold the company 0:08:04.640 --> 0:08:09.960 and moved to southern California. Basically, you know that's great now, Um, 0:08:10.160 --> 0:08:12.520 for those that aren't aware, I'm sure everybody is. And 0:08:12.640 --> 0:08:14.480 at you know, in two thousand was the height of 0:08:14.520 --> 0:08:16.720 that dot com bubble, which then we saw a massive 0:08:16.800 --> 0:08:19.200 draw down, similar to what we saw in the crypto 0:08:19.240 --> 0:08:23.240 space draw down. However, that wasn't the end of the 0:08:23.240 --> 0:08:27.480 Internet technology, and of course it went on in some companies. Amazon, 0:08:27.560 --> 0:08:30.280 for example, went to surpass it's all time high and 0:08:30.360 --> 0:08:32.360 hit two thousand from eighty at its peaked down to 0:08:32.360 --> 0:08:34.960 a dollar up or five dollars and up to two thousand, 0:08:35.600 --> 0:08:37.559 But not all companies did, so you got out of 0:08:37.640 --> 0:08:39.680 the peak. Um if you would have got out of 0:08:39.679 --> 0:08:41.760 Amazon at the peak, maybe that wouldn't have looked so 0:08:41.760 --> 0:08:45.160 good in hindsight, but in your case it was yeah, 0:08:45.600 --> 0:08:49.840 well for us. But then also another similarity, if you 0:08:50.480 --> 0:08:53.120 want to call it that, if you're looking back, a 0:08:53.200 --> 0:08:56.880 lot of companies beg them that considered themselves Internet companies 0:08:56.920 --> 0:09:00.000 because they had a website wouldn't be considered Internet company. 0:09:00.040 --> 0:09:02.600 Needs to give right. It's a lot of these um 0:09:02.840 --> 0:09:05.680 entities that were formed with that idea we're doing quote 0:09:05.720 --> 0:09:08.800 unquote something on the web never ended up doing anything 0:09:08.800 --> 0:09:11.800 of its you on the web because they didn't necessarily 0:09:11.800 --> 0:09:14.680 need the World Wide Web for what they were doing, 0:09:14.800 --> 0:09:19.920 and or it didn't help with customerquisition costs, specifically because 0:09:19.920 --> 0:09:22.960 so few people still were on the World Wide Web, right, 0:09:23.000 --> 0:09:25.760 so you have to still convert all of those people. 0:09:25.760 --> 0:09:27.760 That was a lot of friction. Like we talked before 0:09:27.800 --> 0:09:30.319 the recording, it's like a lot of people are super 0:09:30.360 --> 0:09:33.200 reluctant to put in the credit card information, and so 0:09:33.520 --> 0:09:37.840 that has obviously a lot of analogies with our current scenario. 0:09:38.000 --> 0:09:41.920 There's a lot of entities out there and projects out 0:09:41.960 --> 0:09:45.120 there that they think they do anything blockchain related and 0:09:45.160 --> 0:09:49.800 they really don't. And some of them that specifically are 0:09:49.880 --> 0:09:52.240 very prominent in that space really have nothing to do 0:09:52.400 --> 0:09:55.480 with blockchain whatsoever. If you look at some of those 0:09:55.520 --> 0:09:59.120 retail things, not that they're necessarily bad, but like a 0:09:59.120 --> 0:10:02.800 coin base doesn't use the blockchain for anything obviously, right, 0:10:03.679 --> 0:10:06.640 so they don't need the blockchain really for for anything 0:10:06.679 --> 0:10:09.320 that they do in the daily business, and they sell 0:10:09.400 --> 0:10:13.800 pull on quo currencies, but they're really not fostering, uh, 0:10:13.880 --> 0:10:17.760 the innovation in that space in any shape or form, right, 0:10:18.200 --> 0:10:20.199 and Internet Like I think when you look back through 0:10:20.200 --> 0:10:23.240 different technology cycles, you'll see the same patterns. And so 0:10:23.280 --> 0:10:27.160 typically in the new technology, you have like existing um 0:10:27.400 --> 0:10:29.800 things that are done try to find a new home 0:10:29.880 --> 0:10:32.440 on the new technology, and then it's not until later 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.080 that there's new things that were never done before. So 0:10:35.240 --> 0:10:37.560 you know, for example, you had a company advertising in 0:10:37.600 --> 0:10:39.560 the Yellow Pages and now they're advertising on the they 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:42.360 have a web page, right, Um, but today we have 0:10:42.440 --> 0:10:45.079 applications like Uber that would have never been possible that 0:10:45.200 --> 0:10:50.360 that technology. Yeah, and it's always important to get the 0:10:50.400 --> 0:10:53.319 vocabulary right there. And that's one thing that it always 0:10:53.360 --> 0:10:57.000 takes issue with. Specifically, looking back at the early days 0:10:57.040 --> 0:11:01.000 of the Internet, people still equate Internet and Worldwide Web 0:11:01.080 --> 0:11:03.960 as being one thing and that's not the case, right, So, 0:11:04.480 --> 0:11:07.760 I mean, the world Web is build based on Internet technologies, 0:11:07.800 --> 0:11:12.319 but it's mostly HTML that lets you experience the World 0:11:12.320 --> 0:11:14.560 Wide Web, and that was the introduction of tim berners, 0:11:14.600 --> 0:11:19.400 leews most of the underlying protocols, and that's more important 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.440 paradigm to understand, mostly for the topic that we are 0:11:22.480 --> 0:11:27.080 looking and now created by wind Surf and other people 0:11:27.080 --> 0:11:30.880 in that space. But unfortunately what didn't happen is that 0:11:30.920 --> 0:11:35.280 we kept working on creating these protocols. So my understanding 0:11:35.360 --> 0:11:39.440 moving on to the um, the thematic of blockchain is 0:11:39.440 --> 0:11:43.600 that blockchains are the building block to build new protocols. 0:11:44.000 --> 0:11:48.760 And the bit White people introduced mainly three new concepts 0:11:48.760 --> 0:11:52.160 if you will, and inventions, So the most obvious one 0:11:52.200 --> 0:11:55.880 being this digital bearer instruments so bit common blog case B. 0:11:57.040 --> 0:12:02.080 Then secondarily, if you will, the smart contract systems, and 0:12:02.360 --> 0:12:06.600 every quote unquote cryptocurrency is a smart contract, whereas not 0:12:06.679 --> 0:12:10.040 every smart contract is a cryptocurrency, and that's very hard 0:12:10.080 --> 0:12:13.600 for most people to understand that why the constantly intermixing 0:12:13.640 --> 0:12:16.880 those two things. Um. And Then lastly, and that's probably 0:12:16.880 --> 0:12:20.760 the most important development that we have not talked about 0:12:20.800 --> 0:12:23.120 a lot as of late anymore, is that of a 0:12:23.360 --> 0:12:27.040 central as autonomous organization, which is the reason really why 0:12:27.200 --> 0:12:31.559 bitcoin is still around, right, because it creates an alignments 0:12:31.600 --> 0:12:35.240 of alignment of interest within the system that makes the 0:12:35.440 --> 0:12:40.880 system super resilient. And that's actually actually necessary prerequisite for 0:12:41.000 --> 0:12:45.000 the digital bearer instrument. Yeah, in order to create quote 0:12:45.040 --> 0:12:48.520 unquote immuneability of the transfer of anything that's moving on 0:12:48.600 --> 0:12:51.920 the box chain. Yeah. Those are three, Um, those are 0:12:52.000 --> 0:12:54.960 three really good use cases. I think the first two 0:12:55.200 --> 0:12:59.440 could almost be like improvement offers. Um, so bare instruments 0:12:59.480 --> 0:13:02.199 now we have digit of our instruments, contracts, now we 0:13:02.240 --> 0:13:05.240 have digital smart contracts. But the DOW as you mentioned, 0:13:05.360 --> 0:13:08.480 is a very interesting piece because it takes away the 0:13:08.880 --> 0:13:12.120 human element, which is very easy to be manipulated and corrupted, 0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:15.480 and puts it into math or code. Right, So is 0:13:15.520 --> 0:13:19.040 that what you're kind of talking about. UM, Well, let's 0:13:19.040 --> 0:13:21.800 bring this on a higher level, maybe for for a 0:13:21.880 --> 0:13:26.800 second year. So the largest UM problem, if you will, 0:13:26.920 --> 0:13:31.480 that we face right now, as humans are mostly relatable 0:13:31.679 --> 0:13:37.880 to our organizational principles i e. Most obviously UM, the 0:13:38.040 --> 0:13:43.160 for profit corporation. If you look at companies that now 0:13:43.280 --> 0:13:47.080 standing on top of the food chain, they standing there. 0:13:47.160 --> 0:13:50.880 Let's use Google as an example, because they implemented their 0:13:50.960 --> 0:13:56.439 particular algorithm most perfectly into this for profit algorithm. Because 0:13:56.520 --> 0:13:59.800 as much as they will tell you well, UM, our 0:14:00.120 --> 0:14:03.839 uh mission statement is to organize the world's information and 0:14:03.960 --> 0:14:07.319 make it more accessible and useful and whatnot, that's obviously 0:14:07.480 --> 0:14:12.600 not true because the as with every corporate for profit organization, 0:14:12.920 --> 0:14:16.959 especially the ones that are publicly traded, their model is 0:14:17.120 --> 0:14:22.920 basically in law means their main objective is to increase 0:14:22.960 --> 0:14:26.360 shareholder value. If they didn't do this, the management team 0:14:26.760 --> 0:14:28.920 would be held accountable for that. If they all of 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:31.840 the sudden decided in Google it's case, or we're going 0:14:31.880 --> 0:14:35.080 to yank all the stupid edwards and AdSense stuff out 0:14:35.120 --> 0:14:38.240 of our index, because that that's not very useful to 0:14:38.400 --> 0:14:41.320 find information which to say what they say they do, 0:14:41.960 --> 0:14:45.920 I don't think that their shareholders what we um very 0:14:46.000 --> 0:14:50.480 happy about the outcome of what profit to bottom line. 0:14:50.640 --> 0:14:54.320 So my point here is so this for profit motive 0:14:54.960 --> 0:14:59.640 is actually then UM infiltrating any other algorithm you implement 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.080 after words, But unfortunately, the better you are in implementing 0:15:03.160 --> 0:15:07.360 your own algorithms or the Google Search algorithm, mainly implementing 0:15:08.080 --> 0:15:11.800 UM searches around what makes up you you and serving 0:15:11.880 --> 0:15:17.200 you the right ads is what drives this particular technology, 0:15:17.400 --> 0:15:21.920 which obviously will never create an optimal result for the user. 0:15:22.160 --> 0:15:26.480 It can't so with a dour though, if you then 0:15:26.920 --> 0:15:32.320 can take something that anybody in the system has the 0:15:32.440 --> 0:15:36.080 most interesting participating from the actual result, not from the 0:15:36.160 --> 0:15:39.840 profit modelf, but for this entity creating the best results 0:15:39.880 --> 0:15:43.280 for anybody involved, then in this case you could strip 0:15:43.400 --> 0:15:47.840 ads out right and it wouldn't matter. And more importantly, 0:15:48.520 --> 0:15:52.120 anybody right now could set up a doubt and create 0:15:52.160 --> 0:15:54.480 a matter filter, as far as I'm concerned, create a 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:58.000 matter search and filter any commercial intent out of Google 0:15:58.120 --> 0:16:01.760 is all of a sudden had a search engine, actual 0:16:01.800 --> 0:16:04.880 search engine that would be better in terms of its 0:16:04.960 --> 0:16:08.040 results by several orders of magnitude simply by doing that, 0:16:08.680 --> 0:16:13.520 and simply by essentially removing, um, this for profit modem 0:16:13.640 --> 0:16:19.200 which excuse the incentive system between users, advertisers, and corporate owners. 0:16:19.280 --> 0:16:21.640 And then if you want to go further down, there's 0:16:21.680 --> 0:16:27.680 all so misalignment of interests of managers, shareholders, employees, suppliers, 0:16:27.760 --> 0:16:31.680 and so forth. Whereas in the example of any of 0:16:31.800 --> 0:16:35.880 the block chains with the correct and now implementation, everybody 0:16:35.960 --> 0:16:40.280 is basically pulling the same direction because they would hurt themselves. Right. Um, 0:16:41.400 --> 0:16:45.560 there's always this kind of rumor that at one percent 0:16:45.640 --> 0:16:50.240 attack could essentially swipe away Bitcoin or any of the 0:16:50.320 --> 0:16:54.960 other block chains. Um. The catch here is that anybody 0:16:55.320 --> 0:16:58.840 that would amass this form of either stake in the 0:16:59.000 --> 0:17:03.720 system or computing power, but mostly erode his own holdings, right, 0:17:03.800 --> 0:17:06.280 So it would not. So that's kind of the catch 0:17:06.359 --> 0:17:09.520 they have that prevents this from happening. Um. But by 0:17:09.600 --> 0:17:14.200 skewing incentive system using a four product profit motive that 0:17:14.320 --> 0:17:18.280 doesn't care about align and shareholder interests with user interest, 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:23.160 you can never achieve an optimal outcome from users. Yeah. Interesting, 0:17:23.600 --> 0:17:27.000 I think that's that's interesting the conversation to have, which 0:17:27.119 --> 0:17:29.920 we won't spend too much time into. But UM, I 0:17:30.000 --> 0:17:33.439 think maybe maybe I'm maybe I'm just a little bit 0:17:33.480 --> 0:17:36.040 too optimistic. But I think maybe when those businesses start out, 0:17:36.119 --> 0:17:39.320 they do have a more pure motive. But as you say, right, 0:17:39.400 --> 0:17:41.520 as they grow, and especially as they get shareholders, they 0:17:41.560 --> 0:17:44.120 have a findiciary duty to those shareholders to increase profits, 0:17:45.119 --> 0:17:48.240 and as that grows, it gets more and more distorted. 0:17:48.320 --> 0:17:51.160 Almost so, UM, maybe it starts a little more pure. 0:17:51.560 --> 0:17:53.879 Maybe I'm optimistic, but then I can definitely see what 0:17:53.960 --> 0:17:57.320 you're saying where when everything excuse to profits, it changes 0:17:57.480 --> 0:18:00.719 really the mission or the problem they're trying to solve. Um. 0:18:00.880 --> 0:18:02.920 So it's interesting one of the many ways that I 0:18:03.040 --> 0:18:08.320 think blockchain technology will change the world. Um. I think 0:18:08.440 --> 0:18:12.399 when you look at Internet technology, the technology itself allows 0:18:12.480 --> 0:18:14.480 us to share information. Right, I can upload a file, 0:18:14.520 --> 0:18:18.200 you can download a file. UM. With blockchain technology, it 0:18:18.240 --> 0:18:20.359 allows us to share value. I can upload value, you 0:18:20.359 --> 0:18:22.960 can download value. But also it creates other things like 0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:26.240 governance models that we're talking about. UM. Do you see 0:18:26.280 --> 0:18:28.880 it like that? And do you think, um, this will 0:18:28.960 --> 0:18:32.720 really shift the world much more than what we saw 0:18:32.800 --> 0:18:37.280 with the Internet technology. Yeah, absolutely, and that's exactly come 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:40.600 the right analogy. So the first Internet way if if 0:18:40.640 --> 0:18:44.720 you will change the paradigm for information exchange. And so 0:18:44.880 --> 0:18:48.000 the old publishers that we used to pay for back 0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.240 in the days before the Internet, they barely exists anymore, 0:18:51.280 --> 0:18:53.720 and most of them on the way out because the 0:18:53.840 --> 0:18:56.720 business model has been so thoroughly disrupted and there was 0:18:56.840 --> 0:18:59.560 so slow to adopt that they really, for the most 0:18:59.600 --> 0:19:03.560 part on have a reason to exist anymore. Um. And 0:19:04.200 --> 0:19:08.480 there now, yes, blockchains allow you to build the missing 0:19:08.560 --> 0:19:11.280 what I would call value exchange protocol call its all 0:19:11.400 --> 0:19:13.800 buy it. You're still at the very very beginning, and 0:19:14.359 --> 0:19:16.359 I think that's one of the larger problems in that 0:19:16.600 --> 0:19:21.080 space because specifically guys like us who have been watching 0:19:21.119 --> 0:19:23.200 it for the last decade, at this point in time, 0:19:23.720 --> 0:19:27.560 we're getting really impatient to see the next phase set in. 0:19:27.840 --> 0:19:30.560 But just like you couldn't build a YouTube with a 0:19:30.640 --> 0:19:33.600 fifty six came out then and what wasn't very useful 0:19:33.720 --> 0:19:40.000 user experience, UM, you cannot easily build more complex value 0:19:40.040 --> 0:19:42.399 transfer protocols. So what I mean by that is the 0:19:42.520 --> 0:19:46.480 easiest value transfer protocols is really what we had in 0:19:46.600 --> 0:19:51.040 the past with descent with distributed ledger technology, because that's 0:19:51.400 --> 0:19:54.879 kind of another myth in that space. Often times people 0:19:54.880 --> 0:19:59.040 are quite d lt so distributed alledger technologies. With blockchain, 0:19:59.160 --> 0:20:01.879 it's actually the blo chains are disrupting the lt s. 0:20:02.000 --> 0:20:04.280 Meaning if you look at your bank account, that's a 0:20:04.320 --> 0:20:07.440 typical example of a of a distributed ledger, right, so 0:20:07.520 --> 0:20:10.359 you have an entry there that says either the amount 0:20:10.440 --> 0:20:12.159 that you or the bank or the bank as you 0:20:12.400 --> 0:20:14.720 and if you send me money then they have to 0:20:14.760 --> 0:20:17.679 align those two ledgers us with mine and for whatever 0:20:17.800 --> 0:20:22.480 reason in between, the money disappears into Nirvana for twenty 0:20:22.560 --> 0:20:27.520 four hours or longer um. So with a digital barre instrument, 0:20:28.240 --> 0:20:31.440 it's more less instant, if you will, even if you 0:20:31.880 --> 0:20:36.040 your bitcoins typically done within ten minutes. And the big 0:20:36.080 --> 0:20:39.880 difference there though it's settled, right, And there's always these 0:20:40.280 --> 0:20:44.480 really strange comparisons between the Visa network and the big 0:20:44.760 --> 0:20:48.080 coin network, and then people keep saying stupid things like 0:20:48.640 --> 0:20:53.400 that comparison. Yes, it's it's nonsense, right, Visa will never 0:20:53.520 --> 0:20:56.920 be as fast as bitcoin because you'll never be able 0:20:57.000 --> 0:21:02.040 to achieve settlement in ten minutes, it's impossibility. Yeah, and 0:21:02.240 --> 0:21:05.719 that's really key, right, I mean that's really the value 0:21:05.760 --> 0:21:09.280 of your traditional barer instument. Right. You can take your 0:21:09.359 --> 0:21:12.320 printed dollar notes going to a store, you hand it 0:21:12.400 --> 0:21:15.639 over and it's setted. It's done right. In regards to 0:21:15.720 --> 0:21:18.600 there's two things. First of all, they say bitcoin or visa. 0:21:18.880 --> 0:21:21.160 You know there's a thousand transaction to second bitcoin seven 0:21:21.280 --> 0:21:24.119 or whatever. Well, first of all, visa is a payment 0:21:24.160 --> 0:21:27.400 application on top of a settlement layer. So the Visa 0:21:27.440 --> 0:21:29.200 network could be a payment layer on top of the 0:21:29.200 --> 0:21:31.359 bitcoin layer if it wanted. Second of all, if you're 0:21:31.400 --> 0:21:36.080 a merchant, visa doesn't settle, right, it takes days oh 0:21:36.240 --> 0:21:39.440 yeah to get that money at least. Uh yeah. So 0:21:39.920 --> 0:21:45.520 maybe I'll remind a little bit so um because the 0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:47.800 one thing that I wanted to get across in my 0:21:47.960 --> 0:21:52.800 target you then, well, as um, there's like this major 0:21:52.960 --> 0:21:57.119 focus on on banks and quote unquote currencies and feat 0:21:57.200 --> 0:22:01.760 and whatnot, and ad is a little bit misguided. So 0:22:01.840 --> 0:22:04.359 what I mean by that, A lot of times what 0:22:04.520 --> 0:22:08.679 we see startups do they look at banks and feared 0:22:08.760 --> 0:22:14.280 currencies as um they are the problem. What's really important 0:22:14.320 --> 0:22:17.520 to understand is that they're actually the competition. So what 0:22:17.640 --> 0:22:23.200 I mean by that, so bank and any type of money. 0:22:24.000 --> 0:22:28.680 It's actually addressing one of the fundamental problems in economics, 0:22:29.119 --> 0:22:31.920 were just the double coincidence of one's problem. Right, So 0:22:32.080 --> 0:22:36.320 I need to create an efficient exchange mechanism because you 0:22:36.400 --> 0:22:39.240 have something you want to trade, which is your time, 0:22:39.359 --> 0:22:42.720 but I don't want your time because your skills don't 0:22:42.760 --> 0:22:47.159 apply to whatever I want, which is I don't know, 0:22:47.400 --> 0:22:51.119 live somewhere, right. And so in order to facilitate that, 0:22:52.080 --> 0:22:56.280 humans came up with this idea of currencies, however, um, 0:22:56.800 --> 0:23:00.040 and there are specifically people that have been indoctrinate it 0:23:00.160 --> 0:23:02.320 in kind of this old world thinking of what money 0:23:02.359 --> 0:23:06.440 and currencies are. They don't understand the fundamentals anymore, and 0:23:06.520 --> 0:23:10.320 they're going back to kind of this eighteenth century definition 0:23:10.400 --> 0:23:13.160 of money as a medium of exchange and of accounts 0:23:13.200 --> 0:23:16.600 standard of value in the store of value, whereas that 0:23:16.760 --> 0:23:20.920 definition hasn't been useful for decades obviously, right. And I 0:23:20.960 --> 0:23:23.600 always make the example of that's kind of trying to 0:23:24.240 --> 0:23:28.520 define a phone by the fact that it's tied to war. Right, 0:23:28.640 --> 0:23:32.800 Because the same year that Javon wrote down as a 0:23:32.880 --> 0:23:36.639 definition of money, Um, Alexander Graham Bell got the pattern 0:23:36.800 --> 0:23:40.159 for the phone. Well, we don't look at phones at 0:23:40.200 --> 0:23:43.000 the same way anymore, but for whatever reason, I think, 0:23:43.040 --> 0:23:46.440 mostly because of indoctrination, we're looking at money and currency 0:23:46.520 --> 0:23:50.359 in the same way, and unfortunately there's this conflation between 0:23:50.400 --> 0:23:53.560 those two concepts, which are radically different. Money and currency 0:23:53.920 --> 0:23:58.000