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Speaker 1: So the big question is this, how do investors like

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Speaker 1: us get access to the ideas, information, and most importantly,

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Speaker 1: the right people that give us the tools and information

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Speaker 1: we need to make informed and educated decisions to have success.

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Speaker 1: That is the question, and this podcast will give us

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Speaker 1: the answers. This is Mark Moss, your host. Let's get

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Speaker 1: this started. Welcome to another episode of the Market Disruptors podcast.

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Speaker 1: Today we are joined by Chris kem here from Susteny Capital.

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Speaker 1: He is an investor in the blockchain space. However, he's

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Speaker 1: much more than that. He's a technologist, a futurist. He's

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Speaker 1: an attorney. He's been through the Internet um bubble. He's

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Speaker 1: built companies, sold them off at the peak. He's been there,

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Speaker 1: done that, and he has a unique view in this.

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Speaker 1: In this episode, we're gonna dig into his past. We're

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Speaker 1: gonna talk about how he built inside the Internet stages.

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Speaker 1: We're gonna talk about how he exited at the top,

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Speaker 1: what he learned from that. We're gonna talk about where

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Speaker 1: he sees the current blockchain space today, where he's looking

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Speaker 1: to focus on investing, and where he sees it in

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Speaker 1: the near future. It's an amazing conversation, one that I

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Speaker 1: really enjoyed, and let's just jump right into it, all right.

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Speaker 1: Welcome everybody. I have a special guest today, Chris from

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Speaker 1: Susthany Capital. He's got a very very interesting UM story

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Speaker 1: and perspective on the markets. I learned about at a

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Speaker 1: conference at on Chain nineteen about a week or two ago,

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Speaker 1: and I really wanted to bring him on and talk

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Speaker 1: more about that. So UM, Chris from Sustany Capital. Welcome, Hey, Mark,

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Speaker 1: all right, so UM, as I alluded to, UH, I

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Speaker 1: heard you speak at on Chain UM in Newport Beach

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Speaker 1: and and I really liked your perspective on the markets.

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Speaker 1: And what I really liked was your story of how

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Speaker 1: you've been through these technology cycles before. And I thought,

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Speaker 1: I thought that you had a different perspective that I

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Speaker 1: aligned with. But I don't hear a lot, and uh,

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Speaker 1: I think it's missing, and so I wanted to talk

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Speaker 1: to you more about that. So maybe you can just

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Speaker 1: kind of explain to everybody, UM your background and kind

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Speaker 1: of how you got here. Sure, I'm sort of a

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Speaker 1: field technologist. I want to become a computer program in

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Speaker 1: the eighties and I was doing the day during those

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Speaker 1: days when there was basically just basic programming and so forth,

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Speaker 1: and everything was pretty slow and mostly for me. The

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Speaker 1: one thing that I remember was very hard on your

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Speaker 1: eyes because the monitors back then we're just not really great.

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Speaker 1: So I would write my bicycle home for my internship

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Speaker 1: over it seems next of at the time, and I

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Speaker 1: would see stars in the middle of the day because

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Speaker 1: my eyes get really so impacted so badly that I decided, oh,

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Speaker 1: I should be looking for something else that doesn't impact

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Speaker 1: my health as bad. So it became a lawyer instead,

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Speaker 1: which is kind of a unique breed in essence, there's

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Speaker 1: not too many lawyers or vice versa computer scientists, um

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Speaker 1: that have kind of this cross perspective. Yeah, but definitely, definitely,

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Speaker 1: I definitely I did a good blend. I yes, it's

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Speaker 1: it's usual today maybe yeah, I mean today. And again

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Speaker 1: that's kind of me being biased obviously with my particular background,

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Speaker 1: but it seems to me that a lot of the

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Speaker 1: blockchain implementations that can be had a mix of those

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Speaker 1: two topics and a few others obviously, like mechanics and

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Speaker 1: economics and whatnot. But there's a lot of what I

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Speaker 1: call legal technology or rec tech involved in that particular space,

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Speaker 1: and it's needless to say, outside of coding, and that's

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Speaker 1: the one topic that comes up all the times, that

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Speaker 1: topic of regulation. All buy it often mostly misguided in

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Speaker 1: my opinion, and again that's me having more international background

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Speaker 1: and not necessarily being indoctrinated in any particular paradigm. Well,

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Speaker 1: the the international background is very important because this is

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Speaker 1: a global movement, and a lot of times people get

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Speaker 1: stuck in just their view of the local, their local

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Speaker 1: currency or whatever, and they forget about the global movement.

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Speaker 1: But before we get into that, let's talk about your

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Speaker 1: involved then in there in the Internet days, which a

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Speaker 1: lot of times people draw parallels to, they were both

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Speaker 1: new technologies, if you will, so tell us a little

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Speaker 1: bit about your experience and the Internet days. Sure, I

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Speaker 1: was still in law school. I joined a little startup

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Speaker 1: on another consulting site to help them build what was

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Speaker 1: then UM an idea for the multi um platform voice applications,

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Speaker 1: so kind of a unified messaging system of sorts, and

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Speaker 1: that was the way ahead of its time. We did

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Speaker 1: this a ninety four, so let's to give you an idea.

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Speaker 1: It's still ahead of its time today. So it's kind

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Speaker 1: of the idea of having a unified messaging system that

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Speaker 1: would you do. It would let you do crossovers between

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Speaker 1: voice and email and voice and text and so force.

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Speaker 1: And we're still still not there, um. But because of

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Speaker 1: that telecomverlation, I got really interested in then a new

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Speaker 1: regulation at space. So this was closely before the European

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Speaker 1: Union opened up tele communications to alternate carriers, meaning before that, specifically,

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Speaker 1: in Germany, you only had one telephone carrier, which was

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Speaker 1: about to Tailor Comment at the time, UM. But they

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Speaker 1: were about to opening open the markets, and so they

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Speaker 1: were circulating um suggestions for the regulation of that space.

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Speaker 1: And I was one of the very very few nerds

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Speaker 1: who would read those and then sort of also understand them.

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Speaker 1: And I had my eyes set on one particular part

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Speaker 1: of the regulation which would hopefully be used to guide

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Speaker 1: the regulation in the space that we were interested in

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Speaker 1: of this particular communications tool. And they're at the regulation

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Speaker 1: and the suggestion didn't fit my my idea of how

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Speaker 1: that should work at all. So, like the stupid mid

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Speaker 1: twenty year old that I was at the time, I

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Speaker 1: just sat down and rewrote the entire thing and send

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Speaker 1: it into the Federal Communications Commission, and lo and behold,

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Speaker 1: they called me back and invited me to work with

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Speaker 1: them on that particular legislation, and so long story short,

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Speaker 1: they ended up using what I wrote that weekend. But

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Speaker 1: they're more interesting, he really is. UM. That made me

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Speaker 1: kind of an expert, one of the very few in

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Speaker 1: a particular space, because initially internet and telecommunication was into

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Speaker 1: very entwined. Right. You probably remember you had to pay

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Speaker 1: for a minute for your dial up services and number

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Speaker 1: was the case for much longer and back in Europe

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Speaker 1: than it was year and so I ended up becoming

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Speaker 1: general counsel for one of the very early internet service providers,

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Speaker 1: and we grew the company very rapidly, mostly by having

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Speaker 1: a lot of people running around physically installing those dial

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Speaker 1: upe models and configuring people's dialogue cards to our dial

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Speaker 1: in numbers. So we were able to gobble up like

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Speaker 1: I want to say, three and sixty thousand subscribers women

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Speaker 1: like eighteen months and what what what? What time period

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Speaker 1: was this? That was between night? So ninety eight if

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Speaker 1: you're number was the first fifty six kme more thin

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Speaker 1: funny enough and so over fifty well, but I say

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Speaker 1: two thousand and then at the beginning of two thousand, Um,

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Speaker 1: I was preparing for an initial public offering and at

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Speaker 1: the time we were valued at a billion dollars based

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Speaker 1: on r L subscriber valuations, so we were kind of

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Speaker 1: the e L of Germany at the time, and um,

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Speaker 1: we gotta takeover offer. And yeah, long, long story short,

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Speaker 1: I convinced the rest of the management team we should

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Speaker 1: take it because I simply couldn't see how we could

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Speaker 1: ever make that much money out of our subscriber base.

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Speaker 1: So we saw the company at the height of the

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Speaker 1: dot com essentially to what's now the largest internet service

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Speaker 1: provider in Europe Discolleague, and yeah, we couldn't have time

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Speaker 1: did better or buy it. At the time when we sold,

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Speaker 1: everybody around us told us we were dummies because we

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Speaker 1: were selling for like thirty five cents on the dollar

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Speaker 1: forty six and a half to be precise. But it

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Speaker 1: worked out really, really well, and more importantly, I retired

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Speaker 1: from the law that day when we sold the company

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Speaker 1: and moved to southern California. Basically, you know that's great now, Um,

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Speaker 1: for those that aren't aware, I'm sure everybody is. And

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Speaker 1: at you know, in two thousand was the height of

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Speaker 1: that dot com bubble, which then we saw a massive

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Speaker 1: draw down, similar to what we saw in the crypto

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Speaker 1: space draw down. However, that wasn't the end of the

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Speaker 1: Internet technology, and of course it went on in some companies. Amazon,

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Speaker 1: for example, went to surpass it's all time high and

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Speaker 1: hit two thousand from eighty at its peaked down to

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Speaker 1: a dollar up or five dollars and up to two thousand,

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Speaker 1: But not all companies did, so you got out of

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Speaker 1: the peak. Um if you would have got out of

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Speaker 1: Amazon at the peak, maybe that wouldn't have looked so

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Speaker 1: good in hindsight, but in your case it was yeah,

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Speaker 1: well for us. But then also another similarity, if you

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Speaker 1: want to call it that, if you're looking back, a

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Speaker 1: lot of companies beg them that considered themselves Internet companies

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Speaker 1: because they had a website wouldn't be considered Internet company.

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Speaker 1: Needs to give right. It's a lot of these um

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Speaker 1: entities that were formed with that idea we're doing quote

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Speaker 1: unquote something on the web never ended up doing anything

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Speaker 1: of its you on the web because they didn't necessarily

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Speaker 1: need the World Wide Web for what they were doing,

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Speaker 1: and or it didn't help with customerquisition costs, specifically because

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Speaker 1: so few people still were on the World Wide Web, right,

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Speaker 1: so you have to still convert all of those people.

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Speaker 1: That was a lot of friction. Like we talked before

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Speaker 1: the recording, it's like a lot of people are super

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Speaker 1: reluctant to put in the credit card information, and so

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Speaker 1: that has obviously a lot of analogies with our current scenario.

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Speaker 1: There's a lot of entities out there and projects out

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Speaker 1: there that they think they do anything blockchain related and

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Speaker 1: they really don't. And some of them that specifically are

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Speaker 1: very prominent in that space really have nothing to do

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Speaker 1: with blockchain whatsoever. If you look at some of those

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Speaker 1: retail things, not that they're necessarily bad, but like a

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Speaker 1: coin base doesn't use the blockchain for anything obviously, right,

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Speaker 1: so they don't need the blockchain really for for anything

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Speaker 1: that they do in the daily business, and they sell

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Speaker 1: pull on quo currencies, but they're really not fostering, uh,

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Speaker 1: the innovation in that space in any shape or form, right,

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Speaker 1: and Internet Like I think when you look back through

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Speaker 1: different technology cycles, you'll see the same patterns. And so

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Speaker 1: typically in the new technology, you have like existing um

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Speaker 1: things that are done try to find a new home

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Speaker 1: on the new technology, and then it's not until later

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Speaker 1: that there's new things that were never done before. So

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Speaker 1: you know, for example, you had a company advertising in

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Speaker 1: the Yellow Pages and now they're advertising on the they

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Speaker 1: have a web page, right, Um, but today we have

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Speaker 1: applications like Uber that would have never been possible that

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Speaker 1: that technology. Yeah, and it's always important to get the

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Speaker 1: vocabulary right there. And that's one thing that it always

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Speaker 1: takes issue with. Specifically, looking back at the early days

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Speaker 1: of the Internet, people still equate Internet and Worldwide Web

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Speaker 1: as being one thing and that's not the case, right, So,

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Speaker 1: I mean, the world Web is build based on Internet technologies,

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Speaker 1: but it's mostly HTML that lets you experience the World

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Speaker 1: Wide Web, and that was the introduction of tim berners,

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Speaker 1: leews most of the underlying protocols, and that's more important

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Speaker 1: paradigm to understand, mostly for the topic that we are

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Speaker 1: looking and now created by wind Surf and other people

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Speaker 1: in that space. But unfortunately what didn't happen is that

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Speaker 1: we kept working on creating these protocols. So my understanding

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Speaker 1: moving on to the um, the thematic of blockchain is

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Speaker 1: that blockchains are the building block to build new protocols.

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Speaker 1: And the bit White people introduced mainly three new concepts

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Speaker 1: if you will, and inventions, So the most obvious one

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Speaker 1: being this digital bearer instruments so bit common blog case B.

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Speaker 1: Then secondarily, if you will, the smart contract systems, and

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Speaker 1: every quote unquote cryptocurrency is a smart contract, whereas not

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Speaker 1: every smart contract is a cryptocurrency, and that's very hard

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Speaker 1: for most people to understand that why the constantly intermixing

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Speaker 1: those two things. Um. And Then lastly, and that's probably

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Speaker 1: the most important development that we have not talked about

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Speaker 1: a lot as of late anymore, is that of a

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Speaker 1: central as autonomous organization, which is the reason really why

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Speaker 1: bitcoin is still around, right, because it creates an alignments

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Speaker 1: of alignment of interest within the system that makes the

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Speaker 1: system super resilient. And that's actually actually necessary prerequisite for

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Speaker 1: the digital bearer instrument. Yeah, in order to create quote

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Speaker 1: unquote immuneability of the transfer of anything that's moving on

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Speaker 1: the box chain. Yeah. Those are three, Um, those are

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Speaker 1: three really good use cases. I think the first two

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Speaker 1: could almost be like improvement offers. Um, so bare instruments

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Speaker 1: now we have digit of our instruments, contracts, now we

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Speaker 1: have digital smart contracts. But the DOW as you mentioned,

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Speaker 1: is a very interesting piece because it takes away the

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Speaker 1: human element, which is very easy to be manipulated and corrupted,

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Speaker 1: and puts it into math or code. Right, So is

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Speaker 1: that what you're kind of talking about. UM, Well, let's

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Speaker 1: bring this on a higher level, maybe for for a

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Speaker 1: second year. So the largest UM problem, if you will,

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Speaker 1: that we face right now, as humans are mostly relatable

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Speaker 1: to our organizational principles i e. Most obviously UM, the

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Speaker 1: for profit corporation. If you look at companies that now

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Speaker 1: standing on top of the food chain, they standing there.

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Speaker 1: Let's use Google as an example, because they implemented their

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Speaker 1: particular algorithm most perfectly into this for profit algorithm. Because

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Speaker 1: as much as they will tell you well, UM, our

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Speaker 1: uh mission statement is to organize the world's information and

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Speaker 1: make it more accessible and useful and whatnot, that's obviously

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Speaker 1: not true because the as with every corporate for profit organization,

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Speaker 1: especially the ones that are publicly traded, their model is

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Speaker 1: basically in law means their main objective is to increase

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Speaker 1: shareholder value. If they didn't do this, the management team

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Speaker 1: would be held accountable for that. If they all of

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Speaker 1: the sudden decided in Google it's case, or we're going

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Speaker 1: to yank all the stupid edwards and AdSense stuff out

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Speaker 1: of our index, because that that's not very useful to

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Speaker 1: find information which to say what they say they do,

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Speaker 1: I don't think that their shareholders what we um very

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Speaker 1: happy about the outcome of what profit to bottom line.

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Speaker 1: So my point here is so this for profit motive

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Speaker 1: is actually then UM infiltrating any other algorithm you implement

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Speaker 1: after words, But unfortunately, the better you are in implementing

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Speaker 1: your own algorithms or the Google Search algorithm, mainly implementing

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Speaker 1: UM searches around what makes up you you and serving

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Speaker 1: you the right ads is what drives this particular technology,

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Speaker 1: which obviously will never create an optimal result for the user.

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Speaker 1: It can't so with a dour though, if you then

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Speaker 1: can take something that anybody in the system has the

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Speaker 1: most interesting participating from the actual result, not from the

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Speaker 1: profit modelf, but for this entity creating the best results

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Speaker 1: for anybody involved, then in this case you could strip

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Speaker 1: ads out right and it wouldn't matter. And more importantly,

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Speaker 1: anybody right now could set up a doubt and create

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Speaker 1: a matter filter, as far as I'm concerned, create a

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Speaker 1: matter search and filter any commercial intent out of Google

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Speaker 1: is all of a sudden had a search engine, actual

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Speaker 1: search engine that would be better in terms of its

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Speaker 1: results by several orders of magnitude simply by doing that,

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Speaker 1: and simply by essentially removing, um, this for profit modem

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Speaker 1: which excuse the incentive system between users, advertisers, and corporate owners.

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Speaker 1: And then if you want to go further down, there's

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Speaker 1: all so misalignment of interests of managers, shareholders, employees, suppliers,

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Speaker 1: and so forth. Whereas in the example of any of

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Speaker 1: the block chains with the correct and now implementation, everybody

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Speaker 1: is basically pulling the same direction because they would hurt themselves. Right. Um,

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Speaker 1: there's always this kind of rumor that at one percent

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Speaker 1: attack could essentially swipe away Bitcoin or any of the

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Speaker 1: other block chains. Um. The catch here is that anybody

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Speaker 1: that would amass this form of either stake in the

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Speaker 1: system or computing power, but mostly erode his own holdings, right,

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Speaker 1: So it would not. So that's kind of the catch

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Speaker 1: they have that prevents this from happening. Um. But by

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Speaker 1: skewing incentive system using a four product profit motive that

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Speaker 1: doesn't care about align and shareholder interests with user interest,

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Speaker 1: you can never achieve an optimal outcome from users. Yeah. Interesting,

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Speaker 1: I think that's that's interesting the conversation to have, which

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Speaker 1: we won't spend too much time into. But UM, I

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Speaker 1: think maybe maybe I'm maybe I'm just a little bit

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Speaker 1: too optimistic. But I think maybe when those businesses start out,

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Speaker 1: they do have a more pure motive. But as you say, right,

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Speaker 1: as they grow, and especially as they get shareholders, they

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Speaker 1: have a findiciary duty to those shareholders to increase profits,

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Speaker 1: and as that grows, it gets more and more distorted.

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Speaker 1: Almost so, UM, maybe it starts a little more pure.

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Speaker 1: Maybe I'm optimistic, but then I can definitely see what

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Speaker 1: you're saying where when everything excuse to profits, it changes

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Speaker 1: really the mission or the problem they're trying to solve. Um.

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Speaker 1: So it's interesting one of the many ways that I

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Speaker 1: think blockchain technology will change the world. Um. I think

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Speaker 1: when you look at Internet technology, the technology itself allows

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Speaker 1: us to share information. Right, I can upload a file,

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Speaker 1: you can download a file. UM. With blockchain technology, it

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Speaker 1: allows us to share value. I can upload value, you

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Speaker 1: can download value. But also it creates other things like

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Speaker 1: governance models that we're talking about. UM. Do you see

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Speaker 1: it like that? And do you think, um, this will

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Speaker 1: really shift the world much more than what we saw

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Speaker 1: with the Internet technology. Yeah, absolutely, and that's exactly come

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Speaker 1: the right analogy. So the first Internet way if if

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Speaker 1: you will change the paradigm for information exchange. And so

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Speaker 1: the old publishers that we used to pay for back

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Speaker 1: in the days before the Internet, they barely exists anymore,

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Speaker 1: and most of them on the way out because the

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Speaker 1: business model has been so thoroughly disrupted and there was

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Speaker 1: so slow to adopt that they really, for the most

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Speaker 1: part on have a reason to exist anymore. Um. And

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Speaker 1: there now, yes, blockchains allow you to build the missing

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Speaker 1: what I would call value exchange protocol call its all

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Speaker 1: buy it. You're still at the very very beginning, and

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Speaker 1: I think that's one of the larger problems in that

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Speaker 1: space because specifically guys like us who have been watching

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Speaker 1: it for the last decade, at this point in time,

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Speaker 1: we're getting really impatient to see the next phase set in.

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Speaker 1: But just like you couldn't build a YouTube with a

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Speaker 1: fifty six came out then and what wasn't very useful

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Speaker 1: user experience, UM, you cannot easily build more complex value

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Speaker 1: transfer protocols. So what I mean by that is the

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Speaker 1: easiest value transfer protocols is really what we had in

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Speaker 1: the past with descent with distributed ledger technology, because that's

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Speaker 1: kind of another myth in that space. Often times people

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Speaker 1: are quite d lt so distributed alledger technologies. With blockchain,

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Speaker 1: it's actually the blo chains are disrupting the lt s.

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Speaker 1: Meaning if you look at your bank account, that's a

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Speaker 1: typical example of a of a distributed ledger, right, so

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Speaker 1: you have an entry there that says either the amount

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Speaker 1: that you or the bank or the bank as you

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Speaker 1: and if you send me money then they have to

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Speaker 1: align those two ledgers us with mine and for whatever

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Speaker 1: reason in between, the money disappears into Nirvana for twenty

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Speaker 1: four hours or longer um. So with a digital barre instrument,

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Speaker 1: it's more less instant, if you will, even if you

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Speaker 1: your bitcoins typically done within ten minutes. And the big

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Speaker 1: difference there though it's settled, right, And there's always these

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Speaker 1: really strange comparisons between the Visa network and the big

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Speaker 1: coin network, and then people keep saying stupid things like

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Speaker 1: that comparison. Yes, it's it's nonsense, right, Visa will never

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Speaker 1: be as fast as bitcoin because you'll never be able

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Speaker 1: to achieve settlement in ten minutes, it's impossibility. Yeah, and

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Speaker 1: that's really key, right, I mean that's really the value

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Speaker 1: of your traditional barer instument. Right. You can take your

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Speaker 1: printed dollar notes going to a store, you hand it

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Speaker 1: over and it's setted. It's done right. In regards to

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Speaker 1: there's two things. First of all, they say bitcoin or visa.

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Speaker 1: You know there's a thousand transaction to second bitcoin seven

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Speaker 1: or whatever. Well, first of all, visa is a payment

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Speaker 1: application on top of a settlement layer. So the Visa

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Speaker 1: network could be a payment layer on top of the

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Speaker 1: bitcoin layer if it wanted. Second of all, if you're

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Speaker 1: a merchant, visa doesn't settle, right, it takes days oh

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Speaker 1: yeah to get that money at least. Uh yeah. So

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Speaker 1: maybe I'll remind a little bit so um because the

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Speaker 1: one thing that I wanted to get across in my

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Speaker 1: target you then, well, as um, there's like this major

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Speaker 1: focus on on banks and quote unquote currencies and feat

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Speaker 1: and whatnot, and ad is a little bit misguided. So

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Speaker 1: what I mean by that, A lot of times what

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Speaker 1: we see startups do they look at banks and feared

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Speaker 1: currencies as um they are the problem. What's really important

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Speaker 1: to understand is that they're actually the competition. So what

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Speaker 1: I mean by that, so bank and any type of money.

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Speaker 1: It's actually addressing one of the fundamental problems in economics,

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Speaker 1: were just the double coincidence of one's problem. Right, So

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Speaker 1: I need to create an efficient exchange mechanism because you

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Speaker 1: have something you want to trade, which is your time,

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Speaker 1: but I don't want your time because your skills don't

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Speaker 1: apply to whatever I want, which is I don't know,

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Speaker 1: live somewhere, right. And so in order to facilitate that,

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Speaker 1: humans came up with this idea of currencies, however, um,

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Speaker 1: and there are specifically people that have been indoctrinate it

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Speaker 1: in kind of this old world thinking of what money

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Speaker 1: and currencies are. They don't understand the fundamentals anymore, and

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Speaker 1: they're going back to kind of this eighteenth century definition

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Speaker 1: of money as a medium of exchange and of accounts

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Speaker 1: standard of value in the store of value, whereas that

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Speaker 1: definition hasn't been useful for decades obviously, right. And I

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Speaker 1: always make the example of that's kind of trying to

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Speaker 1: define a phone by the fact that it's tied to war. Right,

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Speaker 1: Because the same year that Javon wrote down as a

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Speaker 1: definition of money, Um, Alexander Graham Bell got the pattern

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Speaker 1: for the phone. Well, we don't look at phones at

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Speaker 1: the same way anymore, but for whatever reason, I think,

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Speaker 1: mostly because of indoctrination, we're looking at money and currency

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Speaker 1: in the same way, and unfortunately there's this conflation between

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Speaker 1: those two concepts, which are radically different. Money and currency

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Speaker 1: are radically different things. Money is simply language, and the

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Speaker 1: very simple example that you can make for that specifically,

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Speaker 1: if you use a digital wallet of cryptocurrencies, whatever you

404
00:24:06,040 --> 00:24:10,360
Speaker 1: have in holdings, if it's bitcoin, ether Um, ex app

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Speaker 1: or any of the other old coins, you will always

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Speaker 1: see the translation of your language of trade. So in

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Speaker 1: our case it's typically going to be used dollar, but

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Speaker 1: if you in Europe it might be the euro. So

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Speaker 1: that part is just language. Money is just language. Currency

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Speaker 1: is simply technology that's supposed to solve the cored incidence

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Speaker 1: of one's problem. And as far as the medium of

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Speaker 1: exchange is concerned, for all feared currencies, for decades already

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Speaker 1: has been digital rights. There's a once in a database,

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Speaker 1: so that part you can check off. As far as

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Speaker 1: store values concerned, that's even a fire because no one

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Speaker 1: for any lengths of time would hold any feared currency

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Speaker 1: in their checking account, at least not in large quantities, right,

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Speaker 1: because it's inherently inflationary because of its really uninteresting incentive

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Speaker 1: system that would obviously have the issuer create more and

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Speaker 1: more of it if you give them the power of

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Speaker 1: which we do so UM and recently have been using

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Speaker 1: the example of hey, if you created a white people

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Speaker 1: that would describe a feared currency the US dollar, and

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Speaker 1: like how its government system is installed, everybody would call

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Speaker 1: it a ship coin, and no one would partake in

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Speaker 1: your I C or no one by right, right, and

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Speaker 1: so to that extent, once you understand that this is

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Speaker 1: UM like a misguided definition that you need to let

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Speaker 1: go off, and then more importantly, what is currency actually

430
00:25:36,280 --> 00:25:38,760
Speaker 1: trying to solve, which is a nouble currency of one's problem,

431
00:25:39,200 --> 00:25:42,399
Speaker 1: then you immediately jump to the conclusion we don't need

432
00:25:42,480 --> 00:25:46,359
Speaker 1: more currencies, like we don't need another bitcoin, ether or

433
00:25:46,400 --> 00:25:49,679
Speaker 1: any of the other outcoins. That's not the point, because

434
00:25:50,240 --> 00:25:54,120
Speaker 1: any fear currency is also digital and for the most part,

435
00:25:54,200 --> 00:25:58,560
Speaker 1: if you're doing a transaction, it's also a cryptographically secured

436
00:25:58,760 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 1: so there's no difference there. The only difference there is

437
00:26:01,920 --> 00:26:05,200
Speaker 1: in communication for the most part, as in now I

438
00:26:05,320 --> 00:26:07,320
Speaker 1: have to explain to you what a bitcoin is and

439
00:26:07,400 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: why it's more important and whatnot. And we probably reached

440
00:26:11,760 --> 00:26:14,920
Speaker 1: the point already where where most people that wanted to

441
00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:18,639
Speaker 1: own any of those cryptocurrencies owns them, right, and there

442
00:26:18,680 --> 00:26:24,560
Speaker 1: has nothing to do restore or value or utility because

443
00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:27,919
Speaker 1: there's very little utility to be had as far as

444
00:26:28,440 --> 00:26:31,440
Speaker 1: using it in daily business. I mean, it was just

445
00:26:31,640 --> 00:26:35,560
Speaker 1: yesterday that I got it email from UH, an Italian

446
00:26:35,880 --> 00:26:39,480
Speaker 1: restaurant that said, hey, we are now accepting bitcoin, Like

447
00:26:40,040 --> 00:26:45,120
Speaker 1: that's great, but yeah, I'm really not interested in paying

448
00:26:45,160 --> 00:26:47,320
Speaker 1: you with bitcoin. I don't think most people were. You

449
00:26:47,359 --> 00:26:50,360
Speaker 1: pay with an inflationary currency now with a deflationary cuarrency back.

450
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:54,480
Speaker 1: So yeah, I mean the thing is as an investor

451
00:26:54,520 --> 00:26:57,600
Speaker 1: in anybody who who's dealing with money, we have been

452
00:26:57,760 --> 00:27:01,280
Speaker 1: treating this like that all the time. Right. If if

453
00:27:01,320 --> 00:27:03,480
Speaker 1: you want to store value, you buy a house or

454
00:27:03,560 --> 00:27:06,480
Speaker 1: something that's increasing, that's your store of value. You don't

455
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:08,920
Speaker 1: think of your fear that's a store of value. So

456
00:27:09,520 --> 00:27:13,320
Speaker 1: so there's the fear created monster. Right. There hasn't been

457
00:27:13,400 --> 00:27:17,320
Speaker 1: money since ninety one when we severed its relationship to

458
00:27:17,440 --> 00:27:22,040
Speaker 1: a commodity, and since then it's simply that instrument. And

459
00:27:22,520 --> 00:27:25,640
Speaker 1: so part of this is education that this is the case.

460
00:27:25,720 --> 00:27:27,920
Speaker 1: And the next part of this is, so how do

461
00:27:27,920 --> 00:27:32,600
Speaker 1: you solve um not only the fundamental problem, the coincidence

462
00:27:32,640 --> 00:27:34,800
Speaker 1: of one's problem, which you solved on the protocol level,

463
00:27:35,240 --> 00:27:38,760
Speaker 1: and then the secondary problems that come with the fact

464
00:27:38,800 --> 00:27:41,960
Speaker 1: that people still want to use or need to use

465
00:27:42,280 --> 00:27:46,800
Speaker 1: intermittently FIAT currencies. And to me, the solution is right

466
00:27:47,080 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 1: in front of everybody, and I keep proselytizing that because

467
00:27:52,000 --> 00:27:54,160
Speaker 1: we want to invest into that, we want to invest

468
00:27:54,240 --> 00:27:57,240
Speaker 1: into what I call money of I P. And in

469
00:27:57,320 --> 00:28:00,560
Speaker 1: a simple example, that could be your digital wallet which

470
00:28:00,680 --> 00:28:04,040
Speaker 1: only holds any type of yet currency for that split

471
00:28:04,160 --> 00:28:07,000
Speaker 1: second when someone's asking for that, and then moves it

472
00:28:07,240 --> 00:28:10,560
Speaker 1: into an actual store of value. And the actual store

473
00:28:10,640 --> 00:28:13,000
Speaker 1: of value depends on the eye of the beholder, right,

474
00:28:13,080 --> 00:28:15,440
Speaker 1: So it could be a bond, it could be a

475
00:28:15,560 --> 00:28:18,320
Speaker 1: partial piece of real estate, could be a basket, it

476
00:28:18,400 --> 00:28:22,119
Speaker 1: could be totally algorithmically created. And to that extent, we

477
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:28,200
Speaker 1: don't need quote unquote stable coins. I mean the stable

478
00:28:28,280 --> 00:28:33,840
Speaker 1: compared to what, right exactly I mean, it's again, it's

479
00:28:33,840 --> 00:28:35,680
Speaker 1: in the eyes of the beholding. At the end of

480
00:28:35,760 --> 00:28:38,520
Speaker 1: the day. Most of these are actually PAGs, right, most

481
00:28:38,560 --> 00:28:41,520
Speaker 1: of them packed to a fiat, which is to say,

482
00:28:41,520 --> 00:28:48,120
Speaker 1: the inflationary. But yeah, yeah, anyhow, so, um, I wanted

483
00:28:48,120 --> 00:28:50,720
Speaker 1: to ask you deleting to that. So that's kind of

484
00:28:50,720 --> 00:28:52,920
Speaker 1: where you went. So the solution is right in front

485
00:28:52,960 --> 00:28:56,440
Speaker 1: of us, which is uh, is uh the moy I've

486
00:28:56,480 --> 00:28:59,320
Speaker 1: heard it called money over I p or really it's

487
00:28:59,320 --> 00:29:03,200
Speaker 1: a transfer value, right, blockchain transferring value, I think. Um.

488
00:29:03,320 --> 00:29:05,840
Speaker 1: Even to add on, I love the conversation that you're having.

489
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:07,400
Speaker 1: This is I could this is what I talked about

490
00:29:07,400 --> 00:29:09,600
Speaker 1: on my YouTube channel. I could talk about all day, um,

491
00:29:09,680 --> 00:29:13,440
Speaker 1: But really it's this. It's the shift where we used

492
00:29:13,480 --> 00:29:15,719
Speaker 1: to look at it as information is what I got

493
00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,560
Speaker 1: in the newspaper, the nightly news, but today information has changed.

494
00:29:19,920 --> 00:29:22,959
Speaker 1: And you mentioned YouTube. Right now everybody's creating news, everyone's

495
00:29:22,960 --> 00:29:25,920
Speaker 1: creating information. But even um, somebody on the beach across

496
00:29:25,960 --> 00:29:27,800
Speaker 1: the world is putting a picture. And then I know

497
00:29:27,880 --> 00:29:29,680
Speaker 1: what the weather is like, I know what the waves

498
00:29:29,680 --> 00:29:32,040
Speaker 1: are like. Right, So I'm getting all this information and

499
00:29:32,160 --> 00:29:36,160
Speaker 1: I look at value Today most people, because of education,

500
00:29:36,520 --> 00:29:40,560
Speaker 1: look at value as like money, but really there's so

501
00:29:40,720 --> 00:29:43,360
Speaker 1: much more to value. And if we go to a

502
00:29:43,440 --> 00:29:48,400
Speaker 1: tokenized economy, everything becomes tokenized and we use blockching technology

503
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:53,880
Speaker 1: constantly transfer value um and over over I P. Right,

504
00:29:54,000 --> 00:29:56,840
Speaker 1: I guess kind of what you're saying. Yeah, And unfortunately

505
00:29:56,880 --> 00:29:59,120
Speaker 1: a lot of people have been throwing this top money

506
00:29:59,160 --> 00:30:02,800
Speaker 1: over by p around without actually explaining and then probably

507
00:30:02,880 --> 00:30:04,760
Speaker 1: for the most part, not thinking it through what it

508
00:30:04,880 --> 00:30:07,720
Speaker 1: means in terms of what you actually need to build.

509
00:30:07,880 --> 00:30:10,200
Speaker 1: I mean, it comes down to the fact it was

510
00:30:10,280 --> 00:30:13,360
Speaker 1: this initial misguided idea of the fat protocol and kind

511
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:17,600
Speaker 1: of creating value in in the quote unquote token or coin.

512
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,080
Speaker 1: Obviously there's not value in the token or coin ever, right,

513
00:30:21,160 --> 00:30:23,840
Speaker 1: because it's part of the protocol. It's the pre to

514
00:30:23,920 --> 00:30:27,320
Speaker 1: p element of the protocol, and to that extent um

515
00:30:27,840 --> 00:30:30,640
Speaker 1: there's always a misapplication of that term token for the

516
00:30:30,720 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 1: most but there's a very few options where you can

517
00:30:34,320 --> 00:30:37,800
Speaker 1: create an actual token because understanding token and the context

518
00:30:37,880 --> 00:30:40,320
Speaker 1: of blockchain is understanding that this is a pure to

519
00:30:40,400 --> 00:30:43,040
Speaker 1: per instrument. So a blockchain, let's to create two things.

520
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,200
Speaker 1: One thing I call the digital vending machine, so the

521
00:30:46,400 --> 00:30:49,600
Speaker 1: smart contracts or or a bottle of smart contracts. It

522
00:30:49,680 --> 00:30:52,320
Speaker 1: spits out what you need. And the other one is

523
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,200
Speaker 1: the token either can use the too in combination. But

524
00:30:55,360 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 1: the thing is if you need both, then the first

525
00:30:59,280 --> 00:31:02,480
Speaker 1: element of the at that the token doesn't actually have

526
00:31:02,720 --> 00:31:06,120
Speaker 1: that digital better function anymore because with that digital bearer function,

527
00:31:06,240 --> 00:31:08,440
Speaker 1: if I can send it to your peer here, you

528
00:31:08,520 --> 00:31:12,360
Speaker 1: should have all the prerequisites that let you either own

529
00:31:12,480 --> 00:31:15,720
Speaker 1: the asset and or have the right. And most of

530
00:31:15,840 --> 00:31:19,400
Speaker 1: the time what we're actually talking about is why it's transfers,

531
00:31:19,480 --> 00:31:22,280
Speaker 1: not as it transfers. And there's a lot of conflation

532
00:31:22,360 --> 00:31:25,800
Speaker 1: of these terms. Like as a law student, that's one

533
00:31:25,840 --> 00:31:28,200
Speaker 1: of the first concepts you learn in civil law in

534
00:31:28,280 --> 00:31:33,160
Speaker 1: Europe to to create these nuances between what is ownership,

535
00:31:33,440 --> 00:31:36,400
Speaker 1: what is possession, what is governance and su course there

536
00:31:36,480 --> 00:31:39,560
Speaker 1: all exist on different levels, and only if and when

537
00:31:39,920 --> 00:31:43,200
Speaker 1: you can combine these in one instrument you can refer

538
00:31:43,320 --> 00:31:46,040
Speaker 1: to as a token, because otherwise you will still need

539
00:31:46,160 --> 00:31:49,960
Speaker 1: this other element. The typical example for that is the

540
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:54,560
Speaker 1: very vanted security tokens. Security tokens are years of the

541
00:31:54,600 --> 00:31:56,600
Speaker 1: way at best. So what I mean by that is

542
00:31:57,240 --> 00:32:01,680
Speaker 1: I mean with with any given evinance context, you will

543
00:32:01,720 --> 00:32:05,640
Speaker 1: need to look for certainry requisites in your person. Is

544
00:32:05,760 --> 00:32:08,880
Speaker 1: this person able to buy that right and we're simply

545
00:32:09,160 --> 00:32:12,400
Speaker 1: very far away from having these identity protocols on main net.

546
00:32:12,880 --> 00:32:16,720
Speaker 1: But right now, also the value transfer protocols on main

547
00:32:16,760 --> 00:32:21,160
Speaker 1: net are super simple. Right, we really can only deal

548
00:32:21,320 --> 00:32:24,400
Speaker 1: with assets and then to a very small degree with

549
00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,400
Speaker 1: with I wanted to say, with fungible, so i e.

550
00:32:28,800 --> 00:32:32,320
Speaker 1: Your your typical talking your typical feats pungible, and to

551
00:32:32,480 --> 00:32:36,000
Speaker 1: a very small degree with with non fungibles, and they're

552
00:32:36,080 --> 00:32:40,680
Speaker 1: mostly just recording the ownership entry and all of those assets.

553
00:32:40,760 --> 00:32:43,560
Speaker 1: Take your typical crypto kitties, they actually don't exist on

554
00:32:43,720 --> 00:32:48,479
Speaker 1: main net, right They they exist on the collapse UM

555
00:32:48,640 --> 00:32:51,960
Speaker 1: system and their servers. Meaning if that entity deplaps and

556
00:32:52,040 --> 00:32:56,520
Speaker 1: maintains the crypto kitty environment, were was to cease operations,

557
00:32:56,640 --> 00:32:59,040
Speaker 1: which it is a startup, and most start ups feel right,

558
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,600
Speaker 1: so they're gonna be wrong. But the thing is, if

559
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:06,560
Speaker 1: you think this through, what you want to attach your

560
00:33:06,880 --> 00:33:10,880
Speaker 1: security to any of those startups creating the side, I

561
00:33:10,920 --> 00:33:14,000
Speaker 1: would not invest into that, and I wouldn't recommend that

562
00:33:14,080 --> 00:33:18,520
Speaker 1: anybody's creating a quote unquote security this way, right, I

563
00:33:18,640 --> 00:33:21,320
Speaker 1: think I I think there's no doubt that UM the

564
00:33:21,440 --> 00:33:24,440
Speaker 1: way that securities are kind of created and owned and

565
00:33:24,520 --> 00:33:27,840
Speaker 1: traded today could be improved. Um. You know, if I

566
00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:31,000
Speaker 1: buy my share of whatever Tesla on eBay, I don't

567
00:33:31,040 --> 00:33:34,160
Speaker 1: really have custody of that share Ebata. You know, e

568
00:33:34,240 --> 00:33:36,640
Speaker 1: trade doesn't have custody right, and and and it it

569
00:33:36,680 --> 00:33:39,120
Speaker 1: creates all these problems. So it'd be simpler. But that

570
00:33:39,240 --> 00:33:42,959
Speaker 1: to me isn't super exciting. Um. But I as much

571
00:33:43,000 --> 00:33:44,480
Speaker 1: as I love the technology side and I'd love to

572
00:33:44,560 --> 00:33:46,200
Speaker 1: talk to you more about that, I wanted to shift

573
00:33:46,240 --> 00:33:47,680
Speaker 1: gears a little bit because I know we're gonna run

574
00:33:47,720 --> 00:33:51,440
Speaker 1: out of time now. Um. You have this interesting background,

575
00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:54,280
Speaker 1: and you obviously get the technology side and the future

576
00:33:54,520 --> 00:33:58,680
Speaker 1: vision side. Um. But you have a company, saysdy Capital. Um,

577
00:33:58,840 --> 00:34:02,120
Speaker 1: that is your You're an investment firm of some sort,

578
00:34:02,200 --> 00:34:05,240
Speaker 1: and you're actively investing in the technology. And I'm curious

579
00:34:05,320 --> 00:34:08,560
Speaker 1: how somebody with your background in your future vision is

580
00:34:08,719 --> 00:34:11,000
Speaker 1: looking at investing in the space. Maybe you can tell

581
00:34:11,000 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 1: me a little bit about that. Yeah, I mean, as

582
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:15,799
Speaker 1: I mentioned, I'm a technologist at heart, and so we've

583
00:34:15,880 --> 00:34:20,880
Speaker 1: been deeply integrated in the technology development environment here for

584
00:34:21,440 --> 00:34:23,920
Speaker 1: a number of years. We've been running the Theorem meetups

585
00:34:24,680 --> 00:34:27,480
Speaker 1: since day one, Since Abul two thousand fifteen, so far

586
00:34:28,160 --> 00:34:30,920
Speaker 1: more than four years. Now. We typically two monthly events

587
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:34,560
Speaker 1: and we'll we'll try to theme them to a particular topic.

588
00:34:34,760 --> 00:34:38,839
Speaker 1: Like our last one last week was all around decentralized exchanges,

589
00:34:39,040 --> 00:34:42,800
Speaker 1: so that more equity should be called on because totally exchanges.

590
00:34:42,840 --> 00:34:47,120
Speaker 1: So we're so be excited about UM particular angles in

591
00:34:47,200 --> 00:34:49,200
Speaker 1: that space and the way we work, as I mentioned,

592
00:34:49,400 --> 00:34:52,759
Speaker 1: it's using the scientific method to investing, which means we

593
00:34:52,840 --> 00:34:56,279
Speaker 1: formulate the investment thesis. And in our case right now,

594
00:34:56,320 --> 00:34:59,359
Speaker 1: we're working roughly of three large topics, the first one

595
00:34:59,480 --> 00:35:02,279
Speaker 1: being UM what we talked about money very p and

596
00:35:02,360 --> 00:35:06,600
Speaker 1: within money of IP will look for smart remittance systems,

597
00:35:07,160 --> 00:35:11,600
Speaker 1: point of sales systems, at M solutions, smart wallet systems

598
00:35:11,640 --> 00:35:14,239
Speaker 1: and so far. So there's a lot of utility to

599
00:35:14,400 --> 00:35:18,960
Speaker 1: we had, but it comes down to identifying the solutions

600
00:35:19,080 --> 00:35:23,919
Speaker 1: and UM the actual operators that realized that because nine

601
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:28,759
Speaker 1: out of ten times or more, UM, we just realized

602
00:35:28,800 --> 00:35:33,440
Speaker 1: that they're still stuck at trying to fix a meta problem,

603
00:35:33,560 --> 00:35:35,919
Speaker 1: not the core problem. But they're trying to fix the bank.

604
00:35:35,960 --> 00:35:38,200
Speaker 1: You don't need to fix the bank, I mean as

605
00:35:38,239 --> 00:35:40,719
Speaker 1: far as the as far as the payment go, I

606
00:35:40,760 --> 00:35:42,880
Speaker 1: mean I see a lot of people trying to solve

607
00:35:43,040 --> 00:35:46,880
Speaker 1: like take take traditional POS systems like point of sales

608
00:35:46,880 --> 00:35:49,759
Speaker 1: systems and trying to help merchants take credit card or

609
00:35:49,840 --> 00:35:52,919
Speaker 1: take take cryptocurrencies for example. I don't I don't really

610
00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:57,120
Speaker 1: understand that. Yeah, it seems like, well, cryptocurrency was designed

611
00:35:57,160 --> 00:35:58,759
Speaker 1: to be peer to peer and it's supposed to cut

612
00:35:58,840 --> 00:36:01,080
Speaker 1: that whole person out. So it's almost like they're trying

613
00:36:01,120 --> 00:36:05,720
Speaker 1: to introduce a technology that actually puts them out of business, right, Yeah, exactly,

614
00:36:05,760 --> 00:36:09,040
Speaker 1: that's exactly right. I mean, it's it's it comes back

615
00:36:09,120 --> 00:36:13,239
Speaker 1: to they're expecting people to adopt the technology rather than

616
00:36:13,320 --> 00:36:16,880
Speaker 1: adopt their technology to people that it's it's the basic

617
00:36:17,800 --> 00:36:21,160
Speaker 1: entrepreneur mistake that they're making there. So you need to

618
00:36:21,360 --> 00:36:25,360
Speaker 1: bury the technology onto the protocol level so that neither

619
00:36:25,480 --> 00:36:29,080
Speaker 1: the merger nor the consumer has to worry about um

620
00:36:30,080 --> 00:36:33,640
Speaker 1: needing to learn a new language of quote unquote cryptocurrency.

621
00:36:33,960 --> 00:36:35,840
Speaker 1: But the only thing they need to know is that

622
00:36:35,960 --> 00:36:40,000
Speaker 1: this particular method doesn't have any fee or better, it's

623
00:36:40,040 --> 00:36:43,239
Speaker 1: actually getting them something right, and that's what you need

624
00:36:43,280 --> 00:36:45,759
Speaker 1: to build in your product. And it's it's not that

625
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:49,080
Speaker 1: this is easy to do. It just takes more, it

626
00:36:49,239 --> 00:36:52,160
Speaker 1: takes longer, more diligence, and mostly more diligence in the

627
00:36:52,239 --> 00:36:55,759
Speaker 1: original setup and thinking. And then there's the the other

628
00:36:55,880 --> 00:36:58,320
Speaker 1: portion to that, and that's again it's very specific to

629
00:36:58,400 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: this topic, uh, the topic of regulation, and unfortunately because

630
00:37:03,920 --> 00:37:07,000
Speaker 1: of the misalignment of interest, specifically in the United States

631
00:37:07,040 --> 00:37:11,200
Speaker 1: but also all over the world. Um, the way legal

632
00:37:11,280 --> 00:37:15,239
Speaker 1: systems work. As a lot of these entrepreneurs, they they're

633
00:37:15,320 --> 00:37:19,920
Speaker 1: going to either see the STC worst case scenario or um,

634
00:37:20,760 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: not as bad but bad, go to the lawyer and

635
00:37:24,120 --> 00:37:26,840
Speaker 1: get legal advice on how to build technology. Well, we

636
00:37:26,920 --> 00:37:31,640
Speaker 1: already know that lawyers in general and regulators in particular

637
00:37:32,080 --> 00:37:35,600
Speaker 1: don't make for good product designers, right, so that's already

638
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:40,160
Speaker 1: a really bad idea. But then more importantly, um, they

639
00:37:40,239 --> 00:37:43,800
Speaker 1: will never create a useful product because they misunderstand that

640
00:37:43,960 --> 00:37:46,600
Speaker 1: this is an international technology and you should just focus

641
00:37:46,719 --> 00:37:51,480
Speaker 1: on creating that technology. Meaning if you're just providing the protocol,

642
00:37:52,000 --> 00:37:54,319
Speaker 1: if you're not interfacing with the user, and if you're

643
00:37:54,360 --> 00:37:58,719
Speaker 1: actually building a peer to peer protocol, there's no niccense needed, right,

644
00:37:58,840 --> 00:38:02,280
Speaker 1: I can as long as I'm not trading in anything

645
00:38:02,440 --> 00:38:06,839
Speaker 1: elictit you and I can trade anything for anything all

646
00:38:07,040 --> 00:38:12,680
Speaker 1: day long, right, that there's no problem with that, And well, yeah,

647
00:38:13,520 --> 00:38:18,279
Speaker 1: with limitations, but limitations are typically physical in nature. If

648
00:38:18,320 --> 00:38:22,040
Speaker 1: we could transfer this to the digital world and exchange

649
00:38:22,160 --> 00:38:25,880
Speaker 1: value that way, that would be preferred. But then, more importantly,

650
00:38:26,520 --> 00:38:30,759
Speaker 1: also these these jurisdictions are obviously different everywhere. I always say, well,

651
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:33,880
Speaker 1: if you don't want your security to be traded on

652
00:38:34,000 --> 00:38:37,640
Speaker 1: the sabbath, or if it should comply to show real

653
00:38:37,920 --> 00:38:41,560
Speaker 1: and every other regulation you could envision, I probably end

654
00:38:41,640 --> 00:38:47,239
Speaker 1: up not building anything ever, right, And so it's not

655
00:38:47,360 --> 00:38:51,320
Speaker 1: about picking the right regulation. It's about deciding if you

656
00:38:51,400 --> 00:38:54,760
Speaker 1: want to be in the business of acquiring these legacy

657
00:38:54,880 --> 00:38:58,520
Speaker 1: licenses and then eventually wait for for these to kind

658
00:38:58,520 --> 00:39:02,080
Speaker 1: of go away and unify, which will take decades or

659
00:39:03,320 --> 00:39:08,960
Speaker 1: um more progressively, just build technology and and build technology

660
00:39:09,400 --> 00:39:12,040
Speaker 1: in such a fashion that you actually don't need any

661
00:39:12,120 --> 00:39:16,840
Speaker 1: of those. And we have the stereotypical example right in

662
00:39:16,960 --> 00:39:19,759
Speaker 1: found of our nose every day. It's a bit common, right,

663
00:39:20,760 --> 00:39:25,399
Speaker 1: But no, it seems like it's it's not like I'm

664
00:39:25,400 --> 00:39:27,239
Speaker 1: not saying this likely. I mean it's a hard thing

665
00:39:27,320 --> 00:39:30,840
Speaker 1: to do, right, I mean bitcoin, But for all intents

666
00:39:30,880 --> 00:39:33,640
Speaker 1: and purposes, it's it's a miracle that it exists, that

667
00:39:33,760 --> 00:39:36,160
Speaker 1: it works and so far as so many things had

668
00:39:36,200 --> 00:39:40,480
Speaker 1: to come together. But now that we have this example,

669
00:39:41,400 --> 00:39:43,480
Speaker 1: you just need to pay close attention of how these

670
00:39:43,560 --> 00:39:47,000
Speaker 1: examples came together and build it in that such fashion.

671
00:39:47,040 --> 00:39:48,960
Speaker 1: And that doesn't mean that you cannot make money from it,

672
00:39:49,120 --> 00:39:52,920
Speaker 1: by the way, right Redhead makes a lot of money

673
00:39:53,000 --> 00:39:57,759
Speaker 1: by implementing Linux solutions, multi building dollar company, but it

674
00:39:57,960 --> 00:40:00,600
Speaker 1: just requires a different way of thinking and realization what

675
00:40:00,760 --> 00:40:03,120
Speaker 1: the problem is. So how do you how do you

676
00:40:03,160 --> 00:40:05,680
Speaker 1: approach that from an investment standpoint, I mean your firm

677
00:40:05,800 --> 00:40:08,120
Speaker 1: Sesny Capital, like what you're investing thesis or like what

678
00:40:08,200 --> 00:40:12,040
Speaker 1: are the areas that you're focusing on? Yeah, yeah, So

679
00:40:12,280 --> 00:40:15,800
Speaker 1: the first money of IP and like with any thesis,

680
00:40:15,880 --> 00:40:17,640
Speaker 1: will put it out there, we run it against the

681
00:40:17,680 --> 00:40:20,600
Speaker 1: teams that we talked to and get pay review and

682
00:40:20,840 --> 00:40:23,800
Speaker 1: if we find someone who has an intelligent opinion that

683
00:40:23,880 --> 00:40:27,279
Speaker 1: we haven't considered, then we adjust. Are thinking that's I mean,

684
00:40:27,360 --> 00:40:30,880
Speaker 1: that's the best thing you can do. Is also the

685
00:40:30,920 --> 00:40:32,839
Speaker 1: money over I P which is, like you said, kind

686
00:40:32,840 --> 00:40:35,640
Speaker 1: of like the payment sector. That's kind of an area

687
00:40:35,719 --> 00:40:38,399
Speaker 1: that you kind of have your focus on right now. Yeah,

688
00:40:38,520 --> 00:40:40,320
Speaker 1: because at the end of the day, I mean, investing

689
00:40:40,400 --> 00:40:42,279
Speaker 1: is about timing, right, So it's when you get in,

690
00:40:42,400 --> 00:40:45,640
Speaker 1: when you get out, and there's not a lot more

691
00:40:45,760 --> 00:40:47,840
Speaker 1: to be had the next topic that we focus on

692
00:40:48,360 --> 00:40:51,480
Speaker 1: the whole topic of regulation technologies, because as you pointed out,

693
00:40:51,880 --> 00:40:53,839
Speaker 1: there is a lot of value to be had, it's

694
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:57,000
Speaker 1: just not around the topic of security tokens. It's more

695
00:40:57,040 --> 00:40:59,920
Speaker 1: incremental than that, and has to be more incremental than that.

696
00:41:00,239 --> 00:41:04,200
Speaker 1: So there we made a couple of allocations in different solutions.

697
00:41:05,160 --> 00:41:08,200
Speaker 1: Just one example, we're running thirty five notes for UM

698
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,320
Speaker 1: small fund. They have the ownly decentralized approach to this

699
00:41:13,440 --> 00:41:19,759
Speaker 1: um issuance topic and um we like what Celsius does

700
00:41:19,960 --> 00:41:26,279
Speaker 1: so this loan system. And another another voice over IP guy, Yeah, yeah,

701
00:41:27,120 --> 00:41:28,840
Speaker 1: you need to have a talk with Alex about that

702
00:41:29,000 --> 00:41:33,680
Speaker 1: topic because now you mentioned you mentioned before the fallacy.

703
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:38,279
Speaker 1: You called it the fallacy of the fat fat protocol thesis. Um,

704
00:41:38,400 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: so I guess based off of that statement you you

705
00:41:40,719 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: stay away from protocols, not at all. We're allocated to

706
00:41:44,840 --> 00:41:49,120
Speaker 1: a lot of the protocols we just um treated appropriately.

707
00:41:49,280 --> 00:41:54,719
Speaker 1: So the all the the protocol allocations and supports, they're

708
00:41:54,760 --> 00:41:57,440
Speaker 1: managed by the data science team. So to that extent,

709
00:41:57,560 --> 00:42:01,120
Speaker 1: you're obviously right now there's nothing you can invest into

710
00:42:01,200 --> 00:42:04,400
Speaker 1: in the cryptocurrency space, right, So in the cryptocurrency and

711
00:42:05,239 --> 00:42:09,000
Speaker 1: exchange in my mind, investing is the long t peround

712
00:42:09,080 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: means that that's all speculation. You can invest into algorithms,

713
00:42:13,239 --> 00:42:15,759
Speaker 1: and that's what we do. That do those tradings, and

714
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:17,680
Speaker 1: there's a lot of learnings to be had, so our

715
00:42:17,800 --> 00:42:22,439
Speaker 1: expectations in the future once the systems have all gone

716
00:42:22,480 --> 00:42:25,440
Speaker 1: through the ring. I've been tested a thousand times for

717
00:42:25,640 --> 00:42:28,360
Speaker 1: Sunday and you're you're probably aware of the quote unquote

718
00:42:28,760 --> 00:42:31,680
Speaker 1: Binance hag right, which is really the wrong label for

719
00:42:31,800 --> 00:42:34,600
Speaker 1: what happened there. But let's call it that. In a way,

720
00:42:34,640 --> 00:42:39,320
Speaker 1: it wasn't advertising for that particular exchange, right because because

721
00:42:39,920 --> 00:42:42,520
Speaker 1: just absorbed it and paid everybody out from the fund.

722
00:42:42,560 --> 00:42:44,720
Speaker 1: Don't try that with your f d i C insurance,

723
00:42:44,800 --> 00:42:50,480
Speaker 1: by the way, right, that would just in the f

724
00:42:50,600 --> 00:42:53,600
Speaker 1: d i C case, that would be just one bank glass. Um.

725
00:42:54,800 --> 00:42:58,040
Speaker 1: But yeah, so money over appears one large topic and

726
00:42:58,160 --> 00:43:01,719
Speaker 1: wrack technly in the other topic. But again, incremental, it's

727
00:43:01,800 --> 00:43:03,960
Speaker 1: like we focus on the low hanging fruit that are

728
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:07,800
Speaker 1: actually time the end feasible right now with um the

729
00:43:07,960 --> 00:43:11,400
Speaker 1: state of the protocol levels that we have, so we'll

730
00:43:11,440 --> 00:43:14,719
Speaker 1: look at like bond issuing systems is probably one of

731
00:43:14,800 --> 00:43:18,960
Speaker 1: the easier products. Like people saying stuff like tokenization of

732
00:43:19,080 --> 00:43:22,960
Speaker 1: real estate, they're just using it unfortunately, as a metaphor,

733
00:43:23,000 --> 00:43:26,280
Speaker 1: and that's always a bad idea. As a technology investor.

734
00:43:26,480 --> 00:43:28,839
Speaker 1: You don't want to use meta for us. You want

735
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:33,000
Speaker 1: to understand the technology. So unfortunately we use something we

736
00:43:33,200 --> 00:43:35,600
Speaker 1: know to try to describe the technology, but then we

737
00:43:35,680 --> 00:43:38,840
Speaker 1: put it into a box. Right yeah, yeah, as a

738
00:43:38,880 --> 00:43:41,840
Speaker 1: technology investor, you can't afford to do that, right. You

739
00:43:42,000 --> 00:43:46,520
Speaker 1: need to fundamentally, at least fundamentally understand vocabulary, which is

740
00:43:47,239 --> 00:43:50,839
Speaker 1: like we're still forming the vocabulary, right, So don't take

741
00:43:50,920 --> 00:43:53,560
Speaker 1: my particular notion of how to define things as be

742
00:43:53,719 --> 00:43:56,000
Speaker 1: all end all. If someone comes up with something better,

743
00:43:56,000 --> 00:43:59,480
Speaker 1: I'm absolutely willing. I'm wanting to adapt that. Whatever I

744
00:43:59,560 --> 00:44:02,880
Speaker 1: put out, it's always meant in the spirit of peer review.

745
00:44:03,160 --> 00:44:05,560
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the main reason why I talked to

746
00:44:05,640 --> 00:44:08,760
Speaker 1: you or right on forks or anything to get peer review.

747
00:44:08,840 --> 00:44:10,279
Speaker 1: I want to know when I'm wrong, and I want

748
00:44:10,320 --> 00:44:13,719
Speaker 1: to know really really earlier, ideally before I spent too

749
00:44:13,840 --> 00:44:17,040
Speaker 1: much time and money on making further mistakes built on

750
00:44:17,160 --> 00:44:20,480
Speaker 1: wrong definitions. But unfortunately, it seems like a lot of

751
00:44:20,600 --> 00:44:24,760
Speaker 1: people just jumped to just taking on these words, i e. Cryptocurrency.

752
00:44:25,000 --> 00:44:29,840
Speaker 1: The term cryptocurrency is other useless. Right, any currency, hopefully

753
00:44:30,080 --> 00:44:35,200
Speaker 1: in its transfer mechanisms using some form of cryptographic protection. Right.

754
00:44:35,239 --> 00:44:38,080
Speaker 1: I assume that VISA is using that. I'm not sure,

755
00:44:38,160 --> 00:44:40,839
Speaker 1: but I assume they do, and they might not use

756
00:44:41,040 --> 00:44:43,239
Speaker 1: the blockchain variety. But at the end of the day,

757
00:44:43,280 --> 00:44:46,640
Speaker 1: then that's the other topic. Oftentimes, when I find people

758
00:44:46,719 --> 00:44:50,319
Speaker 1: using this term blockchain technology, I think they haven't thought

759
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:53,160
Speaker 1: about this for long enough, because blockchain technology in that

760
00:44:53,320 --> 00:44:56,000
Speaker 1: never sense is really just a fancy way of encrypting

761
00:44:56,080 --> 00:44:59,279
Speaker 1: things which has been around for twenty years. Right, It's

762
00:44:59,320 --> 00:45:04,000
Speaker 1: really about creating um the incentive mechanisms factor in your

763
00:45:04,080 --> 00:45:07,600
Speaker 1: network that creates the immuntability that lets you allow to

764
00:45:07,719 --> 00:45:10,200
Speaker 1: build digital bearer instruments, which at the end of the

765
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:13,280
Speaker 1: day will then allow you to build the quote unquote

766
00:45:13,280 --> 00:45:16,799
Speaker 1: digital vending machines with which then I think those are

767
00:45:16,800 --> 00:45:19,120
Speaker 1: all the problems that lead to the regulations because they're

768
00:45:19,120 --> 00:45:22,600
Speaker 1: trying to like put these into these classifications that just

769
00:45:22,680 --> 00:45:26,200
Speaker 1: don't exist. And UM, a lot of these utility tokens,

770
00:45:26,239 --> 00:45:28,400
Speaker 1: if you will, um are meant to be used on

771
00:45:28,440 --> 00:45:33,160
Speaker 1: a system. UM like maybe you would go to david

772
00:45:33,239 --> 00:45:35,480
Speaker 1: Busters and buy tokens to play video games or chuck

773
00:45:35,480 --> 00:45:38,439
Speaker 1: E Cheese, or when I go to the grocery store,

774
00:45:38,440 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 1: they give me reward points, um, and they're kind of

775
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:42,480
Speaker 1: similar to that, and I can use them back in

776
00:45:42,560 --> 00:45:45,319
Speaker 1: the system. However, when I use my Chuck E Cheese

777
00:45:45,360 --> 00:45:47,960
Speaker 1: token or my my grocery store a word points, I don't.

778
00:45:47,960 --> 00:45:52,000
Speaker 1: That's not a taxable event. But now they're calling them assets,

779
00:45:52,040 --> 00:45:53,920
Speaker 1: and now they're taxing me to use them. And then

780
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,239
Speaker 1: it's like, but that's not what they are. That's not

781
00:45:56,360 --> 00:45:59,879
Speaker 1: you know, and so they're uh, and that's what only

782
00:46:00,040 --> 00:46:04,320
Speaker 1: one particular context. And actually frequent fire mars are actually taxable,

783
00:46:05,120 --> 00:46:10,840
Speaker 1: right yeah, same, but like that's different again in other jurisdictions.

784
00:46:10,960 --> 00:46:15,080
Speaker 1: And again that shouldn't play a role. Because I was

785
00:46:15,160 --> 00:46:18,279
Speaker 1: just at the conference. You probably were there when I

786
00:46:18,360 --> 00:46:22,080
Speaker 1: was talking to Hasta from the SEC, and the first

787
00:46:22,200 --> 00:46:24,520
Speaker 1: thing that I told her that I always tell regulator

788
00:46:24,600 --> 00:46:26,800
Speaker 1: or lawyer that I talked to is like, whenever you

789
00:46:26,880 --> 00:46:29,160
Speaker 1: open your mouth, shouldn't you make the disclaimer that you

790
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:32,440
Speaker 1: don't get ready you like technology, that the only thing

791
00:46:32,520 --> 00:46:34,600
Speaker 1: you get to do is limit the right of your citizens,

792
00:46:34,640 --> 00:46:36,279
Speaker 1: because that's all you get to do, right as a

793
00:46:36,360 --> 00:46:39,280
Speaker 1: regulator of any nation, like you can tell your citizens

794
00:46:39,360 --> 00:46:41,080
Speaker 1: what to do and what not to do, mostly what

795
00:46:41,200 --> 00:46:44,520
Speaker 1: not to do. So if that was actually always phrased

796
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:47,799
Speaker 1: in mass particular fashion, it wouldn't get much play, right

797
00:46:47,920 --> 00:46:50,560
Speaker 1: because you don't get fast standing up in front of

798
00:46:50,680 --> 00:46:54,680
Speaker 1: your citizens saying hey, I don't want you three hundred

799
00:46:54,719 --> 00:46:58,840
Speaker 1: million people to be able to buy digital tokens and

800
00:46:58,960 --> 00:47:02,200
Speaker 1: potentially get rich stuff from that will potentially lose anything. So,

801
00:47:02,640 --> 00:47:05,600
Speaker 1: speaking speaking of that, there was the California we're both

802
00:47:05,640 --> 00:47:09,440
Speaker 1: in California Sherman who came out and said point blank

803
00:47:09,840 --> 00:47:12,759
Speaker 1: that U. S citizens should be uh, it should be

804
00:47:12,840 --> 00:47:15,960
Speaker 1: illegal for US citizens to buy cryptocurrency. Right. Um, So

805
00:47:16,120 --> 00:47:19,240
Speaker 1: he did get up and say that, yeah, you probably,

806
00:47:19,520 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: I mean, he probably just wanted to get a reactionize

807
00:47:22,880 --> 00:47:26,680
Speaker 1: no one can be that misguided too. Well, he I

808
00:47:27,080 --> 00:47:29,560
Speaker 1: don't think he was misguided. He actually said so. He

809
00:47:29,640 --> 00:47:32,400
Speaker 1: said the reason why they should be if they it

810
00:47:32,440 --> 00:47:34,680
Speaker 1: should be illegal for them to own it is because

811
00:47:34,719 --> 00:47:37,080
Speaker 1: they believe it takes power from the U. S. Government

812
00:47:37,200 --> 00:47:40,640
Speaker 1: or the the US dollar, the petro dollar, which weakens

813
00:47:40,719 --> 00:47:44,000
Speaker 1: our stance to give sanctions to countries like Iran. And

814
00:47:44,080 --> 00:47:47,360
Speaker 1: he specifically mentioned them. Um so he said he he

815
00:47:47,440 --> 00:47:50,040
Speaker 1: knows exactly what he said. Um, but I think that

816
00:47:50,120 --> 00:47:53,040
Speaker 1: gives fuel to Iran. So they're like, well, heck if this,

817
00:47:53,320 --> 00:47:54,759
Speaker 1: if this takes away the part of the U. S

818
00:47:54,800 --> 00:47:58,560
Speaker 1: to slap sanctions, and we're all for it, right, So yeah,

819
00:47:58,680 --> 00:48:01,759
Speaker 1: I mean you obvious need to take a step back

820
00:48:01,880 --> 00:48:04,759
Speaker 1: and see how this is more likely to play out

821
00:48:04,880 --> 00:48:09,000
Speaker 1: because yeah, and for the time being, nations, the states

822
00:48:09,000 --> 00:48:12,359
Speaker 1: are in a competition, right and we see this play

823
00:48:12,400 --> 00:48:14,920
Speaker 1: out right now in a very specific way, i e.

824
00:48:15,360 --> 00:48:20,239
Speaker 1: Nonsense like what New York did with the bit licensed

825
00:48:20,360 --> 00:48:23,000
Speaker 1: people will just leave New York and exclude New York

826
00:48:23,040 --> 00:48:27,160
Speaker 1: City business for participating and or just decide entirely have

827
00:48:27,320 --> 00:48:30,279
Speaker 1: we don't want to play with US citizens. So if

828
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:33,000
Speaker 1: you carry this forward, Um, if you have done the

829
00:48:33,080 --> 00:48:35,520
Speaker 1: same things like yeah, we don't trust this internet thing,

830
00:48:35,560 --> 00:48:38,640
Speaker 1: we don't let us people have access to the internet.

831
00:48:38,960 --> 00:48:41,200
Speaker 1: Can you imagine that happening and how we would be

832
00:48:42,440 --> 00:48:45,840
Speaker 1: competitively in the world today, right, and it's no different,

833
00:48:45,920 --> 00:48:48,960
Speaker 1: it's actually worse by several orders of magnitude. What I

834
00:48:49,040 --> 00:48:52,720
Speaker 1: mean by that is, so not only is block BLOKTI

835
00:48:52,800 --> 00:48:56,680
Speaker 1: based solutions going to dirupt a disrupt value transfer, but

836
00:48:57,160 --> 00:49:01,960
Speaker 1: because of the decentralized nature, A will disrupt anything that

837
00:49:02,320 --> 00:49:05,439
Speaker 1: came out of the decentralized Internet. And then we see

838
00:49:05,480 --> 00:49:09,360
Speaker 1: already the beginnings of that right now. But obviously things

839
00:49:09,480 --> 00:49:13,280
Speaker 1: like Google and Facebook and the way they create money

840
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:16,480
Speaker 1: for their shareholders that shouldn't have been allowed in the

841
00:49:16,600 --> 00:49:19,520
Speaker 1: first place. Right the Internet is the commons, and no

842
00:49:19,640 --> 00:49:22,239
Speaker 1: one should be allowed to filter it and then aggregate

843
00:49:22,440 --> 00:49:27,000
Speaker 1: content for their own purpose, and specifically not in a

844
00:49:27,160 --> 00:49:30,560
Speaker 1: various way by by selling data. And now that's pretty

845
00:49:30,640 --> 00:49:35,200
Speaker 1: much accepted wisdom, I'd say, But um, coming back to

846
00:49:35,280 --> 00:49:39,640
Speaker 1: this topic of competitiveness, we can already see this play

847
00:49:39,760 --> 00:49:42,560
Speaker 1: out right now here and there, with other jurs addictions

848
00:49:42,600 --> 00:49:47,040
Speaker 1: being faster to adopt more appropriate regulations if any or

849
00:49:47,239 --> 00:49:50,919
Speaker 1: simply saying we are hands off, or tell everybody, well,

850
00:49:51,360 --> 00:49:54,200
Speaker 1: but we just treat these as digital commodities, as in

851
00:49:54,280 --> 00:49:56,560
Speaker 1: the case of Canada and so forth. So if I

852
00:49:56,680 --> 00:49:58,960
Speaker 1: asked you, if I asked you to give me your

853
00:49:59,000 --> 00:50:03,360
Speaker 1: outlook for the the world, but the US, where the

854
00:50:03,480 --> 00:50:05,200
Speaker 1: U s fits into the world over the next couple

855
00:50:05,200 --> 00:50:07,759
Speaker 1: of years. It sounds like you're optimistic. You think the

856
00:50:07,840 --> 00:50:09,919
Speaker 1: US is going to get on board and not push

857
00:50:10,000 --> 00:50:13,320
Speaker 1: too much of this stuff overseas. I think that was

858
00:50:13,600 --> 00:50:17,200
Speaker 1: already left behind and that's only going to continue. Um Well,

859
00:50:17,360 --> 00:50:20,280
Speaker 1: a lot of damage I think has already been done.

860
00:50:21,080 --> 00:50:25,200
Speaker 1: Um I think at this stage just can still be undone.

861
00:50:25,600 --> 00:50:28,319
Speaker 1: I don't really like to think in nation state terms.

862
00:50:28,400 --> 00:50:31,279
Speaker 1: I don't think they're used for organizing principle at this

863
00:50:31,560 --> 00:50:34,520
Speaker 1: moment in time for humanity and because we're facing so

864
00:50:34,640 --> 00:50:40,759
Speaker 1: many global problems. But um again, I'm a technologist at heart,

865
00:50:40,920 --> 00:50:45,560
Speaker 1: and so I'm eternally optimistic when it comes to the

866
00:50:46,400 --> 00:50:49,920
Speaker 1: the ability of technology to solve every problem that we're facing.

867
00:50:51,200 --> 00:50:54,040
Speaker 1: And that's kind of my focus. So to that extent,

868
00:50:54,200 --> 00:50:57,680
Speaker 1: I think it will always start, um with efficient data

869
00:50:57,800 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: distributions or information distribution. I think once we solve that,

870
00:51:02,000 --> 00:51:05,800
Speaker 1: it will kind of dissolve a lot of these misconceptions

871
00:51:05,840 --> 00:51:11,640
Speaker 1: because um, if if you will, all these misconceptions are

872
00:51:11,800 --> 00:51:14,920
Speaker 1: all these ideas that I'm I'm an American, I'm in

873
00:51:15,040 --> 00:51:19,960
Speaker 1: Indian and whatever. Those are all just indoctrinated. Indoctrinations were

874
00:51:20,040 --> 00:51:22,120
Speaker 1: just to say beliefs. If we just let go of that,

875
00:51:22,239 --> 00:51:24,920
Speaker 1: we're all pretty much the same as humans. And so

876
00:51:25,760 --> 00:51:29,840
Speaker 1: if you have the technology to to actually disseminate that information, like,

877
00:51:30,200 --> 00:51:35,480
Speaker 1: the more you travel, typically more accepting of other nations, right,

878
00:51:35,600 --> 00:51:38,959
Speaker 1: that's what you find. And and the more you learn

879
00:51:39,120 --> 00:51:42,720
Speaker 1: and general about how the world works and what's important,

880
00:51:42,719 --> 00:51:46,080
Speaker 1: the more accepting you are, the more collaborative you are.

881
00:51:46,440 --> 00:51:50,799
Speaker 1: And that's the winning formula, right, And that's why at

882
00:51:50,840 --> 00:51:54,800
Speaker 1: the heart of this particular development is open source technology.

883
00:51:54,960 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: What's open source technology? There's a bunch of people that

884
00:51:57,719 --> 00:52:00,640
Speaker 1: don't know each other, from from all around the world

885
00:52:01,000 --> 00:52:05,360
Speaker 1: that collaborate to one particular purpose. Why are they doing that?

886
00:52:06,640 --> 00:52:10,520
Speaker 1: What's the internsing momtive? Because simply because a they can

887
00:52:11,200 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: and be it just excites them to see that particular

888
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:18,400
Speaker 1: thing in the world. And so you can't stop this

889
00:52:18,760 --> 00:52:22,640
Speaker 1: with a nation state. You can stop this regulation, you

890
00:52:22,960 --> 00:52:26,480
Speaker 1: can't stop this with government created money. Right. What they're

891
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:30,000
Speaker 1: gonna they're gonna try, but it's unstoppable. Yeah, And to me,

892
00:52:30,160 --> 00:52:33,200
Speaker 1: I mean it's unconstitutional to try because at the end

893
00:52:33,280 --> 00:52:36,439
Speaker 1: of the day. I mean, any currency should be free.

894
00:52:36,520 --> 00:52:40,440
Speaker 1: I mean, what's the greater expression of your freedom, freedom

895
00:52:40,480 --> 00:52:44,000
Speaker 1: of expression than allocating your wealth your funds. It's more

896
00:52:44,080 --> 00:52:46,279
Speaker 1: than state. The state is always going to want to

897
00:52:46,360 --> 00:52:48,839
Speaker 1: try to control that trade because they're always gonna want

898
00:52:48,840 --> 00:52:51,919
Speaker 1: their money, right. Yeah. But what shines through there, though,

899
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:56,880
Speaker 1: is this idea that government's identities there aren't they're functions

900
00:52:56,920 --> 00:52:59,600
Speaker 1: of society. So that's another thing that we need to

901
00:52:59,680 --> 00:53:03,960
Speaker 1: get back to, realizing that governments are to serve societies.

902
00:53:05,120 --> 00:53:10,200
Speaker 1: Now we created all these like quote unquote entities and institutions.

903
00:53:10,360 --> 00:53:13,080
Speaker 1: There aren't institutions, there are functions of societies. If we

904
00:53:13,560 --> 00:53:17,000
Speaker 1: realize that this is the case, then we can replace

905
00:53:17,120 --> 00:53:20,000
Speaker 1: most of them with technology. Because there's a lot of

906
00:53:20,080 --> 00:53:23,239
Speaker 1: these entities that we're that we created, that we that

907
00:53:23,400 --> 00:53:26,040
Speaker 1: we keep alive for no particular reason, right, I mean,

908
00:53:26,080 --> 00:53:29,920
Speaker 1: they shouldn't exist and like nonsense, like the internal revenue,

909
00:53:29,920 --> 00:53:32,879
Speaker 1: so it should not exist. The The idea of how

910
00:53:33,080 --> 00:53:40,240
Speaker 1: we implement our taxation system um by basically penalizing production

911
00:53:41,000 --> 00:53:45,520
Speaker 1: has been has been accepted wisdom since the eighties that

912
00:53:45,719 --> 00:53:49,040
Speaker 1: this is not a really useful system to have because

913
00:53:49,360 --> 00:53:52,480
Speaker 1: it's causing what we call a lot of a lot

914
00:53:52,520 --> 00:53:57,040
Speaker 1: of partial parts of the money law doing things. But well, yeah,

915
00:53:57,160 --> 00:54:01,520
Speaker 1: if you if you tax Apple because they happen to

916
00:54:01,600 --> 00:54:05,239
Speaker 1: be in Crepitine all about, they can create entity in

917
00:54:05,320 --> 00:54:09,839
Speaker 1: island to other ones and then uh slash the text

918
00:54:09,920 --> 00:54:12,120
Speaker 1: boat and half of course they need to do that, right,

919
00:54:12,160 --> 00:54:15,040
Speaker 1: I mean what we would be gross negligent not to

920
00:54:15,200 --> 00:54:19,160
Speaker 1: do that. So what what you're really doing as you're incentivizing,

921
00:54:19,880 --> 00:54:24,480
Speaker 1: um those entities and the most productive people typically of

922
00:54:24,640 --> 00:54:28,840
Speaker 1: societies to look elsewhere. Right, So we have a and

923
00:54:28,960 --> 00:54:31,400
Speaker 1: that's and that's uh. And and that's why blockchain or

924
00:54:31,440 --> 00:54:33,719
Speaker 1: bitcoin and blockchain is so interesting because you have to

925
00:54:33,760 --> 00:54:37,040
Speaker 1: be so multifaceted, and one is on philosophy. And that's

926
00:54:37,040 --> 00:54:40,759
Speaker 1: where a lot of these policymakers and economist miss is

927
00:54:40,800 --> 00:54:44,239
Speaker 1: they don't understand human incentive. They try to organize everything,

928
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:47,160
Speaker 1: but they missed that big piece of incentive. Um And

929
00:54:47,320 --> 00:54:50,279
Speaker 1: so you've nailed that, um Man. This has been an

930
00:54:50,280 --> 00:54:53,680
Speaker 1: awesome conversation. Uh, these are the parts that I really

931
00:54:53,800 --> 00:54:55,839
Speaker 1: enjoy about this space. So I could just talk about

932
00:54:55,840 --> 00:54:58,160
Speaker 1: it forever, and I know we've gone way longer than

933
00:54:58,480 --> 00:55:00,120
Speaker 1: you had agreed to come on for and every they

934
00:55:00,120 --> 00:55:04,120
Speaker 1: appreciate you taking the time. Um, it's been it's been great.

935
00:55:04,680 --> 00:55:07,919
Speaker 1: UM shared some really good information, some good food for thought.

936
00:55:08,880 --> 00:55:11,080
Speaker 1: But I want to I want to respect your time now, UM,

937
00:55:11,560 --> 00:55:13,560
Speaker 1: because you're so interesting. I'm sure other people want to know.

938
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,239
Speaker 1: Is there are a place they can keep up with you. Well.

939
00:55:17,440 --> 00:55:20,359
Speaker 1: So I've been working on this long time project which

940
00:55:20,400 --> 00:55:23,120
Speaker 1: I called my book project. Although I'm not entirely sure

941
00:55:23,160 --> 00:55:25,319
Speaker 1: whoever result in the book at this point in time,

942
00:55:25,360 --> 00:55:28,480
Speaker 1: because I started this fourteen years ago, but it was

943
00:55:28,600 --> 00:55:31,279
Speaker 1: right after I realized that we never got around to

944
00:55:31,320 --> 00:55:33,239
Speaker 1: actually finish what we set out to do, which is

945
00:55:33,280 --> 00:55:35,680
Speaker 1: to build the worldwide weapon. Instead ended up with the

946
00:55:35,760 --> 00:55:40,000
Speaker 1: commercial web. So I started writing an outline on on

947
00:55:40,400 --> 00:55:42,919
Speaker 1: my block it's just my last name came dot com

948
00:55:43,400 --> 00:55:47,120
Speaker 1: a long time ago, and um, as of a year

949
00:55:47,239 --> 00:55:49,480
Speaker 1: or a year and a half ago, I started writing

950
00:55:50,160 --> 00:55:54,520
Speaker 1: an article also every month every other months on Forbes,

951
00:55:54,600 --> 00:55:57,080
Speaker 1: which was basically an outline of one of the chapters

952
00:55:57,200 --> 00:56:00,480
Speaker 1: in in the book. So at this point in time,

953
00:56:00,600 --> 00:56:05,120
Speaker 1: it's obviously largely slanted to watch the centralized system. It

954
00:56:05,200 --> 00:56:09,720
Speaker 1: started out being about the centralized systems, but knowing obviously

955
00:56:09,800 --> 00:56:14,200
Speaker 1: what I now Now with current developments in the blockchain space,

956
00:56:14,320 --> 00:56:19,440
Speaker 1: it's much more sophisticated in in detail oriented. Worse, the

957
00:56:19,520 --> 00:56:23,160
Speaker 1: initial outline was mostly on principle, so it's like fourteen

958
00:56:23,239 --> 00:56:26,239
Speaker 1: principles of how you need to organize information distribution to

959
00:56:26,320 --> 00:56:28,880
Speaker 1: make it sustainable, which to me is that the core

960
00:56:29,000 --> 00:56:31,759
Speaker 1: of most of the problems that we face today. I mean,

961
00:56:32,080 --> 00:56:34,759
Speaker 1: we will summarize that there's fake news, but it goes

962
00:56:34,880 --> 00:56:38,800
Speaker 1: much deeper into the fact that you can basically google

963
00:56:38,880 --> 00:56:43,520
Speaker 1: anything and find your ever so misguided opinion confirmed. And

964
00:56:43,680 --> 00:56:46,719
Speaker 1: it doesn't matter if the world is flat or um.

965
00:56:46,920 --> 00:56:49,759
Speaker 1: You have whatever name you want to assign to your

966
00:56:50,719 --> 00:56:54,760
Speaker 1: respective and visible friend, right. Uh. And that that's obviously

967
00:56:54,840 --> 00:56:58,520
Speaker 1: true because there's so many people that subscribed to the idea.

968
00:56:58,600 --> 00:57:02,480
Speaker 1: So I kind of adapted the opposite means. If if

969
00:57:02,480 --> 00:57:04,440
Speaker 1: a lot of people think that's the right thing, is

970
00:57:04,440 --> 00:57:08,399
Speaker 1: probably wrong. So I set a lot of people eat

971
00:57:08,440 --> 00:57:12,239
Speaker 1: that McDonald's, that's probably not the right thing to do, right.

972
00:57:12,960 --> 00:57:15,840
Speaker 1: That's one of the highlight examples. But um, yeah, so

973
00:57:16,000 --> 00:57:20,480
Speaker 1: to that extent might be, I always like to get

974
00:57:20,520 --> 00:57:23,680
Speaker 1: feedback on the stuff that I published there on on forps,

975
00:57:23,720 --> 00:57:25,720
Speaker 1: the only thing that I once in a while published

976
00:57:25,720 --> 00:57:27,880
Speaker 1: an article because it's not the right venue on forps,

977
00:57:28,680 --> 00:57:33,200
Speaker 1: publishes on on linked In, but I'm not much otherwise

978
00:57:34,160 --> 00:57:37,240
Speaker 1: present on on social media. I think I tweet maybe

979
00:57:37,320 --> 00:57:41,800
Speaker 1: every three weeks of that and then mostly too like

980
00:57:41,920 --> 00:57:43,440
Speaker 1: a now and say, we have a meet up, but

981
00:57:43,480 --> 00:57:46,520
Speaker 1: does anybody want to talk about the Centristic exchanges or

982
00:57:47,800 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 1: game technologies or whatever. Right, well, I'll get some links

983
00:57:51,760 --> 00:57:53,440
Speaker 1: to those in the show notes and as far as

984
00:57:53,480 --> 00:57:55,200
Speaker 1: your meet up, so I'd love to come since we're

985
00:57:55,400 --> 00:57:57,800
Speaker 1: both in the local area, so I definitely want to

986
00:57:57,840 --> 00:58:00,760
Speaker 1: stay more in touch with you on that um. But

987
00:58:01,560 --> 00:58:03,600
Speaker 1: we'll go ahead and wrap it up. Thanks so much

988
00:58:03,640 --> 00:58:06,680
Speaker 1: for joining the Market Disruptors Podcast. Hey, if you like

989
00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:10,440
Speaker 1: this episode of the Market Disruptors Podcast, please help us

990
00:58:10,520 --> 00:58:12,920
Speaker 1: take this to the top of the podcast charts. Just

991
00:58:13,040 --> 00:58:16,080
Speaker 1: please do me a favor and rate review and subscribe.

992
00:58:16,320 --> 00:58:19,040
Speaker 1: Taking fifteen seconds to just leave a quick review goes

993
00:58:19,120 --> 00:58:21,400
Speaker 1: a long way and helping us reach more people and

994
00:58:21,560 --> 00:58:24,680
Speaker 1: disrupt more markets. I really appreciate you listening and I'll

995
00:58:24,680 --> 00:58:27,000
Speaker 1: see you next time on the Market Disruptors Podcast.