WEBVTT - The Substance

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<v Speaker 1>On the Bechdel Cast.

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<v Speaker 2>The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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<v Speaker 2>all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

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<v Speaker 2>have individualism? The patriarchy z Eph and Beast start changing with.

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<v Speaker 1>The Bechdel Cast. Jamie, there is no you and me.

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<v Speaker 2>We are one who popped out of Who's bad? That's up?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Who's the matrix and who's the other self?

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<v Speaker 2>Depends on the day listeners, depends.

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<v Speaker 1>On sound off in the comments. Well, it's the Substance episode.

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<v Speaker 2>It is true. I'm very excited. Here we are the

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<v Speaker 2>movie that launched a thousand takes, and here's ours.

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<v Speaker 1>Here's I like it.

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<v Speaker 2>It's fun My propose intro is going to be ah

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<v Speaker 2>the French hmmm like the orson Ball's commercial member.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh no, I don't remember that.

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<v Speaker 2>Okay, well I swear sound off in the comments if

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<v Speaker 2>you remember that and thought it was funny. Anyways, Yes,

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<v Speaker 2>we are covering the Substance. This is the Bechdel Cast.

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<v Speaker 2>We are lining this up to come up right around

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<v Speaker 2>the Oscars.

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<v Speaker 1>H Yes, However, we are recording it in early February.

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<v Speaker 1>The episode will come out like a month later after

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<v Speaker 1>the Oscars. So we're not sure.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so we don't know how they did. We don't

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<v Speaker 2>know how they did. We just know how we feel.

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<v Speaker 1>We know how we feel. But it is nominated for

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<v Speaker 1>Academy Awards for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Original Screenplay,

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<v Speaker 1>Best Actress for Demi Moore, and Best Makeup and Hairstyling.

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<v Speaker 2>So I'm thrilled about this. It all makes sense. I

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<v Speaker 2>am just like, I'm so happy that weird movies are

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<v Speaker 2>being nominated for Oscars in recent years. I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>you have your kind of typical I'm gonna just throw

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<v Speaker 2>a random person under the butt. I guess like most

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<v Speaker 2>people who for biopics to be perfectly honest, like, that's

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<v Speaker 2>an Oscar Baby performance if you do a good job

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<v Speaker 2>and you're of note and of especially if you look

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<v Speaker 2>a little weird and I mean a little weird or

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<v Speaker 2>just not conventionally attractive. But that is simply not what

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<v Speaker 2>Demi Moore is. I mean, it's what she's doing to

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<v Speaker 2>such an extreme that I feel like this is not

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<v Speaker 2>an Oscar bait. This is about as far from an

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<v Speaker 2>Oscar Baby performance as you could get, because this movie

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<v Speaker 2>could have been so bad. True, I feel like in

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<v Speaker 2>the wrong hands or really just like a male director.

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<v Speaker 2>This movie could have been like comically bad, and I

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<v Speaker 2>think bad for to me Moore's career. I'm glad that

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<v Speaker 2>that's not the way it went. Anyways, I love this movie.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, so, Jamie, what's your relationship with it? Did you

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<v Speaker 1>see it in theater?

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<v Speaker 2>Google the Bechdels test, Google the Bexxels test.

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<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah, I forgot about that part of the show.

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<v Speaker 2>If you don't know what the Bechdel test is, you

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<v Speaker 2>have no business listening to our takes on the Substance,

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<v Speaker 2>Like fair, go back to second grade. Okay, I saw

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<v Speaker 2>The Substance in theaters twice. I rewatched it with a

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<v Speaker 2>Bechda lens, which is, I want to say, a very

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<v Speaker 2>different I guess it is a very different experience, but

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<v Speaker 2>not in a way that made me feel less enthusiastic

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<v Speaker 2>about the movie, I guess, But I was just like,

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<v Speaker 2>looking at different aspects of it and looking into the

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<v Speaker 2>production is really interesting. But yeah, I was thinking about

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<v Speaker 2>the first time I saw this movie in theaters was

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<v Speaker 2>the night it came out, because I really enjoyed Cora

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<v Speaker 2>Lee Farsia's first movie, Revenge, which is I think it's

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<v Speaker 2>a French language film, that came out I think in

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<v Speaker 2>twenty seventeen. That sounds right, And I watched it with

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<v Speaker 2>my friend Sarah when we were high on mushrooms in

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<v Speaker 2>a hotel room in Montreal. So we were like, let's

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<v Speaker 2>watch something French, and we watched Revenge and it is like,

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<v Speaker 2>it's a very different movie from the substance, And I

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<v Speaker 2>want to talk about how the ways I feel like

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<v Speaker 2>those movies are in conversation with each other, because Revenge is,

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<v Speaker 2>you know, the revenge genre I think is like very

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<v Speaker 2>fraught with being more interested in rape than revenge. That's

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<v Speaker 2>not an original observation, but Revenge is literally just I mean,

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<v Speaker 2>it's that is what the revenge is in response to.

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<v Speaker 2>But the movie is ninety nine point nine percent revenge.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, sounds like something that we should cover for Revenge

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<v Speaker 1>bur on the Matreon.

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<v Speaker 2>We really should. Yeah, it's a good contribution to that genre.

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<v Speaker 2>And I feel like it's sort of saying something about

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<v Speaker 2>like external violence towards women and then this movie is

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<v Speaker 2>more like self inflicted violence. Anyways, I really enjoyed this movie.

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<v Speaker 2>The thing I wanted to say was the first time

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<v Speaker 2>I saw it was the night it came out, and

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<v Speaker 2>I know a lot of people who've seen this movie,

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<v Speaker 2>especially early. I think you did too, Like had the

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<v Speaker 2>experience of just like it was a wild theatrical experience

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<v Speaker 2>because no one knew what was going to happen. Everyone

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<v Speaker 2>was like, oh my god, like and there's lot of laughter, yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>because it's a funny movie. But I will say that

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<v Speaker 2>I went with my boyfriend now fiance, and my fiance

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<v Speaker 2>I did it all the time. Now yes he is, yes,

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<v Speaker 2>and as my wife in practiced if not yet, Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>he's always saying that is that he says.

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<v Speaker 1>That to you every day and I'm always like the

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<v Speaker 1>aggressive guy.

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<v Speaker 2>No, So we saw it together. The audience, I will say,

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<v Speaker 2>was more men than not. And there were fun aspects

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<v Speaker 2>of it, like the movie is so gross, which I

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<v Speaker 2>love because I am squeamish, but I love gross movies.

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<v Speaker 2>There was a guy, you know, I think, like a

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<v Speaker 2>stereotypically like masculine looking like muscular guy who got up

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<v Speaker 2>and left three different times but kept coming back. And

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<v Speaker 2>where he he left during the shrimp scene.

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<v Speaker 1>Truly one of the grossest scenes in the movie.

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<v Speaker 2>I think that was like a submovie. I was really

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<v Speaker 2>enjoyed because he like clearly I really wanted to finish

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<v Speaker 2>the movie, but the movie does not let up in

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<v Speaker 2>getting grosser, and he was just he was struggling. I

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<v Speaker 2>get it. But when we were talking about the movie afterwards,

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<v Speaker 2>I was trying to like articulate a feeling I was

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<v Speaker 2>having about, like I loved the movie. I get this.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, it's like you, I don't know, everyone gets

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<v Speaker 2>this way about movies. It's maybe a little immature, but

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<v Speaker 2>sometimes I'm like I understood it and those guys did it.

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<v Speaker 2>But I did feel like there were moments that elicited

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<v Speaker 2>laughter in the movie that really felt bad and frustrating

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<v Speaker 2>to me, especially when it's I felt like this movie,

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<v Speaker 2>to me, you're like laughing almost with the characters because

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<v Speaker 2>you can somehow relate to even though this is not

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<v Speaker 2>something you would or could do to yourself. It feels

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<v Speaker 2>like a nightmare you would have about your sort of

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<v Speaker 2>worst intentions towards yourself. But I feel like there was

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<v Speaker 2>a portion of that audience that was laughing at her

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<v Speaker 2>and not with her. And I don't know, like I

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<v Speaker 2>can't describe quite how, but I do wonder if there's

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<v Speaker 2>listeners you.

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<v Speaker 1>Just know you know when someone's laughing for the wrong reason.

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<v Speaker 2>And you know when a guy says they liked the

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<v Speaker 2>substance for the wrong reason, you could just feel it.

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<v Speaker 2>And I was trying to articulate this to Grant and

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<v Speaker 2>like he mostly got it. But it's also like men

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<v Speaker 2>don't really need to contend with that feeling very much.

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<v Speaker 2>Because I love body horror, and I love body horror

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<v Speaker 2>movies made by women. This is no exception. But it

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<v Speaker 2>just felt like there were a lot of people who

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<v Speaker 2>left that movie and they're, like, I love that, but

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<v Speaker 2>they were laughing at her more often than empathizing with her,

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<v Speaker 2>and I don't necessarily I mean, I know you could argue, well,

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<v Speaker 2>that's the director's fault. I don't think so. I think

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<v Speaker 2>I think a lot of the negative takes about this

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<v Speaker 2>movie is people expecting too much of one movie. Like, sorry,

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<v Speaker 2>I'm already babbling. What was your experienceive seeing.

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<v Speaker 1>I too saw it in theaters twice early on. I

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<v Speaker 1>don't know if I saw it opening night. I truly

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<v Speaker 1>don't have a memory.

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<v Speaker 2>And an opening weekend at least.

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<v Speaker 1>Yes, we talked about it shortly after right the first

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<v Speaker 1>movie going experience with it was a raucous good time.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean it is really fun.

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<v Speaker 1>But I was also in a theater where I was like,

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<v Speaker 1>some of these people and some of these men, they're

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<v Speaker 1>not laughing for the right reasons. They're not laughing at

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<v Speaker 1>the right parts or you know. But I didn't let

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<v Speaker 1>that deter me from having a great time. I loved it.

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<v Speaker 2>Nor should it.

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<v Speaker 1>Nor should it? And then I saw it again, maybe

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<v Speaker 1>like a month later it was in theaters for It's

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<v Speaker 1>still kind of I was back in theaters.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh yeah, after the nominations.

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<v Speaker 1>So I saw it like a month or a month

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<v Speaker 1>and a half later. I dressed up as Elizabeth for Halloween.

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<v Speaker 1>I saw it a third time during a horror movie

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<v Speaker 1>marathon in October. So like, I've seen it a few

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<v Speaker 1>times now, and each time I've watched it, I've had

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<v Speaker 1>a slightly different viewing experience. I haven't had really different

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<v Speaker 1>feelings on it. I feel like my my takes and

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<v Speaker 1>thoughts are still processing, I will say, and I think

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<v Speaker 1>I'll maybe feel differently about this movie in a year

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<v Speaker 1>and five years.

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<v Speaker 2>Right, which is why we don't usually cover movies right

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<v Speaker 2>when they come up. But this movie is so begging

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<v Speaker 2>to be covered on this show that it's like, no, well,

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<v Speaker 2>we can recover it later if our feelings changed.

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<v Speaker 1>You know, not true. Yeah, give us five years. We

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<v Speaker 1>might hate our original take and we'll just redo it.

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<v Speaker 1>But yeah, I very much enjoyed this movie. It was probably,

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<v Speaker 1>if not my favorite movie of twenty twenty four, in

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<v Speaker 1>the top three. I had a great time, and I'm

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<v Speaker 1>excited to discuss me too.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I'm excited for you to see Revenge too. I'm

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<v Speaker 2>curious what you think.

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah, it's on my list. Let's just do a revenge

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<v Speaker 1>bur in, I don't know, March.

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<v Speaker 2>Whenever we feel like it. Really, that's the beauty. That's

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<v Speaker 2>our revenge, is our blatant disregard for months exactly.

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<v Speaker 1>Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back

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<v Speaker 1>for the recap.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and we're back, all right.

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<v Speaker 1>Here is the recap of the substance.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh, I wonder if this is weirdly quick recap.

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<v Speaker 1>It is actually kind of long because it's a long

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<v Speaker 1>same movie. It's two hours and twenty minutes. That is

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<v Speaker 1>my one complain about the movie. If it's a bit

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<v Speaker 1>longer than I think it needs to be.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I'm like, but I wouldn't. I don't know what

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<v Speaker 2>I would cut necessarily anyways, I.

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<v Speaker 1>Wouldn't cut scenes, like whole scenes or anything like that.

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<v Speaker 1>I would just like shave some of the stuff down.

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<v Speaker 2>We see like repetitive.

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<v Speaker 1>Information that I think we could just like trim a bit.

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<v Speaker 2>Sure.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyway, we open on an egg that is injected with

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<v Speaker 1>a Dare I say Shrek colored liquid?

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<v Speaker 2>It is Shrekian and I, which leads to the question,

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<v Speaker 2>has Coraley Fresh I've seen Shrek and.

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<v Speaker 1>On I bet she has.

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<v Speaker 2>I wonder, I wonder if she. I don't know. I've

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<v Speaker 2>watched a lot of interviews with her, and maybe it's

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<v Speaker 2>just because I find French people hard to read.

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<v Speaker 1>They're mysterious, Yes they are.

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<v Speaker 2>And I mean listen, Julia do Carno and Courley Fresh

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<v Speaker 2>like two of my absolute favorites. I'm just like, would

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<v Speaker 2>they watch Shrek? I don't know. We gotta go to

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<v Speaker 2>a Q and A and really disrespect the artist by

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<v Speaker 2>acting an unrelated.

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<v Speaker 1>Have you seen Shrek? I think we should just have

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<v Speaker 1>Coraley on the podcast and ask her there. She's so cool. Yeah, well,

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<v Speaker 1>she's our biggest fan probably, so it shouldn't be that hard.

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<v Speaker 1>And I read in an interview with her that she

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<v Speaker 1>grew up on a diet of American movies. So I

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<v Speaker 1>think it is very possible that she has seen Shrek.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh my god, I hope she saw it in theaters anyway, Sorry.

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<v Speaker 1>Anyways, So there is this lime green subs the titular

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<v Speaker 1>substance that is injected into the yolk of an egg,

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<v Speaker 1>and then the yolk multiplies and becomes two yolks. I

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<v Speaker 1>said that word really weird.

0:12:13.320 --> 0:12:14.559
<v Speaker 2>Yolks. You hit the L.

0:12:14.640 --> 0:12:17.679
<v Speaker 1>I mean there is an L in it. Yeah, anyway,

0:12:17.800 --> 0:12:21.240
<v Speaker 1>I thought you did great, so thank you so much.

0:12:22.440 --> 0:12:25.160
<v Speaker 1>Then we see a star on the Hollywood Walk of

0:12:25.200 --> 0:12:29.800
<v Speaker 1>Fame in Hollywood, California. Ever heard of it? It's being

0:12:29.800 --> 0:12:35.200
<v Speaker 1>made for Elizabeth Sparkle. She is a popular star at

0:12:35.240 --> 0:12:38.560
<v Speaker 1>the beginning of her career, but as the years pass,

0:12:39.200 --> 0:12:43.440
<v Speaker 1>we see excitement about her dwindle. Then we finally meet

0:12:43.480 --> 0:12:47.160
<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth Sparkle on screen. She's, of course, played by Demi Moore.

0:12:47.880 --> 0:12:53.280
<v Speaker 1>She currently hosts a kind of like nineties style fitness

0:12:53.280 --> 0:12:55.120
<v Speaker 1>slash aerobics TV show.

0:12:55.480 --> 0:12:58.120
<v Speaker 2>It reminds me a lot of like as someone who

0:12:58.120 --> 0:13:01.840
<v Speaker 2>did the Jane Fonda workout Old day of Lockdown. I

0:13:01.840 --> 0:13:04.400
<v Speaker 2>think that was yeah, like the eighties, nineties kind of vibe.

0:13:04.760 --> 0:13:08.199
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So the show's called Sparkle Your Life. And after

0:13:08.240 --> 0:13:11.280
<v Speaker 1>the show, she goes into the restroom where she overhears

0:13:11.679 --> 0:13:16.680
<v Speaker 1>her head of the network boss Harvey, played by Dennis Quaid,

0:13:17.040 --> 0:13:17.480
<v Speaker 1>who I.

0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.400
<v Speaker 2>Was just like, what are we doing? And also like

0:13:20.440 --> 0:13:22.000
<v Speaker 2>why does he do a good job? Is it because

0:13:22.040 --> 0:13:25.640
<v Speaker 2>he's so familiar with being diabolical? But I didn't want

0:13:25.679 --> 0:13:27.360
<v Speaker 2>to say. I found out in an interview. I don't

0:13:27.360 --> 0:13:29.800
<v Speaker 2>know if you saw this, that the part was originally

0:13:29.880 --> 0:13:32.760
<v Speaker 2>going to be for Ray Liota Lioda and then he died,

0:13:33.040 --> 0:13:35.080
<v Speaker 2>so that I was like, all right, as long as

0:13:35.120 --> 0:13:36.160
<v Speaker 2>he wasn't the first pick.

0:13:36.200 --> 0:13:41.640
<v Speaker 1>I guess. Yeah. But Dennis Quaid, despite him being a

0:13:41.679 --> 0:13:44.520
<v Speaker 1>person with a very bad politics, does a really great

0:13:44.640 --> 0:13:46.320
<v Speaker 1>job as this character.

0:13:46.679 --> 0:13:50.520
<v Speaker 2>He's a really great despicable piece of shit, right, and

0:13:50.520 --> 0:13:53.440
<v Speaker 2>that's just his performance in Reagan, Am I right, lady?

0:13:56.520 --> 0:14:02.000
<v Speaker 1>Anyway, So he's a very loud, obnoxious misogyny and Elizabeth

0:14:02.280 --> 0:14:06.600
<v Speaker 1>overhears him saying that he is canceling Elizabeth's show and

0:14:06.679 --> 0:14:11.920
<v Speaker 1>replacing her with someone younger. Elizabeth is obviously very upset

0:14:11.960 --> 0:14:15.480
<v Speaker 1>about this. There's also the scene where Harvey's eating shrimp

0:14:15.800 --> 0:14:17.600
<v Speaker 1>very grotesquely.

0:14:17.559 --> 0:14:19.840
<v Speaker 2>And like the fish eye lens that they use it.

0:14:20.240 --> 0:14:23.360
<v Speaker 2>It's so yucky. I love it. I also really liked

0:14:23.760 --> 0:14:26.080
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, just like watching it again and looking

0:14:26.120 --> 0:14:30.160
<v Speaker 2>at the way that he talks to her, like, well,

0:14:30.240 --> 0:14:33.040
<v Speaker 2>you knew this was going to happen. I don't know,

0:14:33.120 --> 0:14:35.600
<v Speaker 2>I just I appreciated like that choice of like, well,

0:14:35.720 --> 0:14:37.240
<v Speaker 2>I'm not you know, first of all, he doesn't care

0:14:37.240 --> 0:14:39.360
<v Speaker 2>how she feels, but also I think he does believe

0:14:39.440 --> 0:14:41.560
<v Speaker 2>that she assumed this was going.

0:14:41.400 --> 0:14:44.240
<v Speaker 1>To happen to her, right, because he says something like

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:48.080
<v Speaker 1>after fifty, it just stops, meaning like, once you turn

0:14:48.160 --> 0:14:49.960
<v Speaker 1>fifty years old as a woman.

0:14:50.360 --> 0:14:52.080
<v Speaker 2>My ability to give a shit about you.

0:14:53.440 --> 0:14:57.240
<v Speaker 1>Because she's like, what stops and he cannot articulate at

0:14:57.240 --> 0:14:58.920
<v Speaker 1>all what he means it.

0:15:00.720 --> 0:15:02.040
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it's great.

0:15:02.240 --> 0:15:06.360
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. So she learns that she's getting fired. On her

0:15:06.400 --> 0:15:09.800
<v Speaker 1>way home, Elizabeth gets into a car accident, so she

0:15:09.880 --> 0:15:14.760
<v Speaker 1>goes to the doctor, and there a young physician examines

0:15:14.800 --> 0:15:18.120
<v Speaker 1>her and says that she's a good candidate for what

0:15:18.760 --> 0:15:22.760
<v Speaker 1>we wonder. Turns out he had slipped something in her pocket,

0:15:23.200 --> 0:15:27.000
<v Speaker 1>a flash drive labeled the substance.

0:15:26.760 --> 0:15:28.520
<v Speaker 2>And he says it changed.

0:15:28.600 --> 0:15:33.760
<v Speaker 1>No, Yeah, there's a little note. Then a man named

0:15:33.960 --> 0:15:39.440
<v Speaker 1>Fred like jump Scare approaches her on the sidewalk. This

0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:41.560
<v Speaker 1>is someone she knew from high school, and he's like,

0:15:42.200 --> 0:15:44.440
<v Speaker 1>oh my gosh, you're the most beautiful woman in the

0:15:44.480 --> 0:15:48.080
<v Speaker 1>world and you're still beautiful. We should go out for

0:15:48.120 --> 0:15:49.239
<v Speaker 1>a drink sometime.

0:15:49.640 --> 0:15:52.840
<v Speaker 2>And she's like, this does capture a jump Scare person

0:15:52.880 --> 0:15:55.880
<v Speaker 2>from high school? Feeling very well.

0:15:56.240 --> 0:16:00.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes, but anyway, She's like, m yeah, no, thank you,

0:16:00.200 --> 0:16:02.720
<v Speaker 1>and then she goes home to see what's on the

0:16:02.760 --> 0:16:08.720
<v Speaker 1>flash drive. It's basically a commercial for the substance, something

0:16:08.800 --> 0:16:12.720
<v Speaker 1>that will make you younger and more beautiful and more perfect.

0:16:13.360 --> 0:16:18.040
<v Speaker 2>But there's just one rule. You must respect the balance.

0:16:18.120 --> 0:16:19.000
<v Speaker 1>Respect the balance.

0:16:19.040 --> 0:16:22.880
<v Speaker 2>Seven days mean more, seven days mark requality.

0:16:23.280 --> 0:16:25.240
<v Speaker 1>It's like the Ring seven days.

0:16:25.400 --> 0:16:28.280
<v Speaker 2>I thought that too. I was like opening scene of

0:16:28.720 --> 0:16:32.600
<v Speaker 2>scary gross movie that it warns you that you'll die

0:16:32.600 --> 0:16:34.440
<v Speaker 2>in seven days if you fuck around.

0:16:35.800 --> 0:16:39.040
<v Speaker 1>So the way this works is the substance takes your

0:16:39.160 --> 0:16:44.520
<v Speaker 1>DNA and creates a new and quote unquote better version

0:16:44.600 --> 0:16:50.080
<v Speaker 1>of yourself where you live life as your original self,

0:16:50.560 --> 0:16:53.800
<v Speaker 1>which they call the matrix for one week, and then

0:16:53.880 --> 0:16:58.680
<v Speaker 1>you swap with your younger other self and live as

0:16:58.760 --> 0:17:00.920
<v Speaker 1>them for a week, and you keep going back and

0:17:00.960 --> 0:17:03.720
<v Speaker 1>forth week after week. But the important thing to remember

0:17:03.840 --> 0:17:06.560
<v Speaker 1>is that you are not separate people. There is no

0:17:06.880 --> 0:17:10.600
<v Speaker 1>her and me. You are one I thought.

0:17:10.359 --> 0:17:12.600
<v Speaker 2>Of as interesting, and this isn't a criticism because this

0:17:12.680 --> 0:17:15.359
<v Speaker 2>movie doesn't work unless you operate on kind of like

0:17:15.480 --> 0:17:20.720
<v Speaker 2>symbolic dream logic. But that they could not like even

0:17:20.760 --> 0:17:26.040
<v Speaker 2>though they are technically one person, they don't share memories

0:17:26.119 --> 0:17:28.600
<v Speaker 2>like they have to piece together what the other did.

0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:32.560
<v Speaker 1>So I to this day am not clear on that exactly,

0:17:33.080 --> 0:17:36.119
<v Speaker 1>because the movie, it is easy for the audience to

0:17:36.160 --> 0:17:40.480
<v Speaker 1>forget that they are the same person, partly because we

0:17:40.560 --> 0:17:43.240
<v Speaker 1>see them as two different people on screen, like two

0:17:43.240 --> 0:17:47.960
<v Speaker 1>different actors. They're visibly different, but also they routinely forget

0:17:48.040 --> 0:17:51.280
<v Speaker 1>that they are the same person because the substance hotline

0:17:51.400 --> 0:17:54.760
<v Speaker 1>guy has to always remind them there's no her and you.

0:17:54.960 --> 0:17:59.639
<v Speaker 2>That little meddling sicko right at substance HQ.

0:18:00.119 --> 0:18:04.320
<v Speaker 1>So I think there's definitely a read where they don't

0:18:04.359 --> 0:18:07.840
<v Speaker 1>share memories and they have to like figure out what

0:18:07.920 --> 0:18:10.320
<v Speaker 1>the other one has been up to. But I think

0:18:10.359 --> 0:18:14.520
<v Speaker 1>there's also a read where they are sharing memories, and

0:18:14.560 --> 0:18:18.639
<v Speaker 1>it's just that they're resenting each other's choices so much

0:18:19.000 --> 0:18:23.000
<v Speaker 1>that it just seems like they're Oh yeah, that was

0:18:23.080 --> 0:18:23.760
<v Speaker 1>my read of it.

0:18:23.840 --> 0:18:26.479
<v Speaker 2>At least that's the true I guess I viewed it

0:18:26.520 --> 0:18:30.600
<v Speaker 2>as like, because these are two different parts of Elizabeth,

0:18:30.640 --> 0:18:33.919
<v Speaker 2>that she is so out of touch with herself and

0:18:34.000 --> 0:18:37.400
<v Speaker 2>so uncomfortable in herself that like she can't get these

0:18:37.440 --> 0:18:42.160
<v Speaker 2>like two parts of her to communicate because of that disagreement.

0:18:42.520 --> 0:18:45.920
<v Speaker 2>Either way, it explains away this problem, right right. I

0:18:45.920 --> 0:18:48.000
<v Speaker 2>don't think even think it's a problem. It feels intentional.

0:18:48.400 --> 0:18:48.760
<v Speaker 1>Mm hmm.

0:18:49.520 --> 0:18:49.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:18:49.840 --> 0:18:53.840
<v Speaker 1>I mean, I agree that they're so out of sync,

0:18:54.440 --> 0:18:58.520
<v Speaker 1>but that's why it seems like they don't share memories, sure,

0:18:58.560 --> 0:19:00.399
<v Speaker 1>but that they actually do. I don't know. Again, you

0:19:00.400 --> 0:19:01.560
<v Speaker 1>could read it I think both.

0:19:01.359 --> 0:19:04.880
<v Speaker 2>Ways, but I think both both definitely work. I had

0:19:04.880 --> 0:19:07.440
<v Speaker 2>like all of these alternate pitches of like what if

0:19:07.440 --> 0:19:09.919
<v Speaker 2>the substance was like this in the version where the

0:19:09.960 --> 0:19:14.480
<v Speaker 2>substance is like a very gentle, sweet story of love

0:19:14.520 --> 0:19:16.880
<v Speaker 2>and friendship, they would be like writing each other these

0:19:16.880 --> 0:19:20.080
<v Speaker 2>beautiful letters for the other to read, like a letter

0:19:20.160 --> 0:19:23.600
<v Speaker 2>to my younger sheff bye, And then she'd be like

0:19:24.040 --> 0:19:25.919
<v Speaker 2>it would be kind of like I haven't seen My

0:19:25.960 --> 0:19:27.280
<v Speaker 2>Old Ass, but it feels like that.

0:19:27.880 --> 0:19:31.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh sure, I did see My Old Ass. It is

0:19:31.080 --> 0:19:33.919
<v Speaker 1>kind of like that. Although they're on screen together interacting

0:19:34.080 --> 0:19:36.679
<v Speaker 1>throughout that movie, right, but if they're writing letters to

0:19:36.720 --> 0:19:38.800
<v Speaker 1>each other, that's kind of like the movie The lake House.

0:19:39.280 --> 0:19:41.840
<v Speaker 2>I loved the movie The lake House. I did. Yeah,

0:19:41.880 --> 0:19:44.760
<v Speaker 2>it's like mother daughter lake House or like younger self,

0:19:44.760 --> 0:19:48.040
<v Speaker 2>Older Self lake House. Obviously this is not that movie.

0:19:48.119 --> 0:19:50.679
<v Speaker 2>I also was like, I had a theory that I

0:19:50.720 --> 0:19:53.560
<v Speaker 2>posted to letterbox dot com. Give me a follow over there,

0:19:54.200 --> 0:19:57.040
<v Speaker 2>Jamie alert is my username.

0:19:56.920 --> 0:19:59.479
<v Speaker 1>And while you're at it, give me a follow please.

0:20:00.000 --> 0:20:03.639
<v Speaker 2>Hello, So my theory after watching this of this for

0:20:03.680 --> 0:20:06.479
<v Speaker 2>the third time, Okay, I'm just going to read it please.

0:20:06.520 --> 0:20:10.120
<v Speaker 2>This movie is a Xanax nightmare that Elizabeth Sparkle has

0:20:10.160 --> 0:20:13.520
<v Speaker 2>the day she's fired by Dennis Quaid over shrimp. She

0:20:13.600 --> 0:20:16.800
<v Speaker 2>wakes up the next morning and starts applying to masters programs,

0:20:17.119 --> 0:20:20.240
<v Speaker 2>asking around about ghostwriters for her memoir, and looking up

0:20:20.280 --> 0:20:23.160
<v Speaker 2>the prices of ranches in upstate New York. She lives

0:20:23.160 --> 0:20:26.119
<v Speaker 2>another thirty five years and starts a terrible wine brand

0:20:26.160 --> 0:20:29.800
<v Speaker 2>and a terrible podcast. She is sort of happy, that

0:20:29.960 --> 0:20:33.480
<v Speaker 2>is I think the true ending, because this whole movie

0:20:33.560 --> 0:20:37.800
<v Speaker 2>it just is like a nightmare. Or I read in

0:20:37.840 --> 0:20:41.919
<v Speaker 2>a review from The White Pube it's she said something like,

0:20:42.320 --> 0:20:44.680
<v Speaker 2>it's like a game of the Sims being played by

0:20:44.680 --> 0:20:47.720
<v Speaker 2>the most depressed person in the world. Oh wow, for

0:20:48.040 --> 0:20:50.800
<v Speaker 2>the spaces are weirdly vacant. There's nowhere to go, there's

0:20:50.840 --> 0:20:54.000
<v Speaker 2>no one to talk to, it's weirdly aggressive. There's either

0:20:54.040 --> 0:20:56.119
<v Speaker 2>too much food or no food at all. Like, it

0:20:56.240 --> 0:20:58.480
<v Speaker 2>just is like a really scary game of the Sims.

0:20:58.560 --> 0:20:59.560
<v Speaker 2>And I like that reading.

0:21:00.080 --> 0:21:03.719
<v Speaker 1>I love that reading too. My version of this movie

0:21:04.000 --> 0:21:09.520
<v Speaker 1>would be when she's the older Demi Moore version, she

0:21:09.640 --> 0:21:12.639
<v Speaker 1>just takes like week long vacations every time. It's like

0:21:12.720 --> 0:21:16.000
<v Speaker 1>her turn to exist. Yeah, and then she just like

0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.120
<v Speaker 1>has a nice time on vacation for a.

0:21:18.080 --> 0:21:20.080
<v Speaker 2>Week at a time, go incognito mode.

0:21:20.119 --> 0:21:22.720
<v Speaker 1>And then her younger self works and like.

0:21:22.760 --> 0:21:29.359
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, brings home the bacon. But Sue that disrespectful tell

0:21:29.400 --> 0:21:31.560
<v Speaker 2>me about it. Anyways, we'll get we'll get to Sue,

0:21:31.600 --> 0:21:32.200
<v Speaker 2>we'll get there.

0:21:33.040 --> 0:21:39.280
<v Speaker 1>Okay. So Elizabeth has watched this commercial about the substance

0:21:39.640 --> 0:21:42.879
<v Speaker 1>and she learns about what the deal is and she

0:21:43.040 --> 0:21:45.600
<v Speaker 1>is not interested at first, but then she changes her

0:21:45.640 --> 0:21:49.119
<v Speaker 1>mind and calls the number on the flash drive. She

0:21:49.160 --> 0:21:52.719
<v Speaker 1>places an order for the substance, and she's given an

0:21:52.760 --> 0:21:55.800
<v Speaker 1>address In the mail. She receives a key card with

0:21:55.840 --> 0:21:58.800
<v Speaker 1>the number five oh three on it. She heads to

0:21:58.880 --> 0:22:03.280
<v Speaker 1>the address where there are like lockers. One is labeled

0:22:03.359 --> 0:22:07.800
<v Speaker 1>five O three and inside is a starter kit for

0:22:07.960 --> 0:22:13.000
<v Speaker 1>the substance. There's an activator fluid which says single use,

0:22:13.240 --> 0:22:20.200
<v Speaker 1>discard after use, which is important. There's like stabilizer apparatus

0:22:20.280 --> 0:22:24.000
<v Speaker 1>for the quote unquote other self to use. There is

0:22:24.320 --> 0:22:29.320
<v Speaker 1>food for both the like original matrix and the other self.

0:22:30.160 --> 0:22:33.680
<v Speaker 1>And the idea is that you activate once, you stabilize

0:22:33.720 --> 0:22:37.840
<v Speaker 1>every day, and you switch every seven days, and remember

0:22:38.240 --> 0:22:39.320
<v Speaker 1>you are one.

0:22:39.920 --> 0:22:42.639
<v Speaker 2>It's the best like Little Monkey Pa situation in the

0:22:42.640 --> 0:22:45.000
<v Speaker 2>world because you're like, Okay, this would only work with

0:22:45.040 --> 0:22:47.640
<v Speaker 2>someone who had a stable sense of self. But if

0:22:47.640 --> 0:22:50.040
<v Speaker 2>you have a stable sense of self, you would never

0:22:50.240 --> 0:22:53.560
<v Speaker 2>use the substance. Sell what are you getta do?

0:22:55.440 --> 0:22:59.080
<v Speaker 1>So Elizabeth goes to her bathroom and injects herself with

0:22:59.240 --> 0:23:05.120
<v Speaker 1>the Shrek color activator fluid, and then it begins. She collapses,

0:23:05.720 --> 0:23:12.280
<v Speaker 1>Her back begins to split open, and she births Margaret Qually.

0:23:12.680 --> 0:23:15.159
<v Speaker 2>The whole Audiees is screaming, let's go, let's go, let's go.

0:23:15.520 --> 0:23:19.919
<v Speaker 1>And this other self she has a cute button nose,

0:23:20.480 --> 0:23:25.879
<v Speaker 1>thick wavy locks, taut round buttocks. Yes, that is a

0:23:25.960 --> 0:23:28.760
<v Speaker 1>quote from Shrek to thank you so much.

0:23:30.480 --> 0:23:32.200
<v Speaker 2>Well done, well done.

0:23:32.440 --> 0:23:34.560
<v Speaker 1>Well well let's cause did you see that meme going

0:23:34.600 --> 0:23:39.919
<v Speaker 1>around where it's comparing Shrek too with the substance No,

0:23:40.840 --> 0:23:44.439
<v Speaker 1>let me show you. I'm gonna text, wowk you thank you.

0:23:44.640 --> 0:23:47.160
<v Speaker 2>This is what friendship is all about. I did appreciate.

0:23:47.160 --> 0:23:49.960
<v Speaker 2>I didn't know this, but that Margaret quality is like

0:23:50.040 --> 0:23:53.639
<v Speaker 2>wearing a lot of prosthetics to be Sue. Like that

0:23:53.760 --> 0:23:55.000
<v Speaker 2>is not her body.

0:23:55.119 --> 0:23:56.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh I didn't realize that either.

0:23:56.560 --> 0:24:00.600
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she's wearing like chicken cutlets. The boom are fake,

0:24:00.840 --> 0:24:03.679
<v Speaker 2>the butt is fake. Oh, which I guess was like

0:24:03.760 --> 0:24:07.159
<v Speaker 2>a choice by both her and Coralie, where like, I

0:24:07.160 --> 0:24:10.480
<v Speaker 2>know she like worked out a lot to be Sue,

0:24:10.480 --> 0:24:13.280
<v Speaker 2>but like they physically altered. I think that they made

0:24:13.320 --> 0:24:16.320
<v Speaker 2>slight alterations to her face just to like make her

0:24:16.440 --> 0:24:19.080
<v Speaker 2>feel like an uncanny version of herself.

0:24:19.400 --> 0:24:25.000
<v Speaker 1>Okay, okay, yeah, okay. So we meet the other self

0:24:25.040 --> 0:24:31.960
<v Speaker 1>played by Margaret qually, she sews up the original Matrix

0:24:32.200 --> 0:24:36.560
<v Speaker 1>self aka Dememur. She puts the feeding tube in her,

0:24:37.480 --> 0:24:41.600
<v Speaker 1>and she has to remember to stabilize, which requires the

0:24:41.640 --> 0:24:47.440
<v Speaker 1>other self to extract some kind of body goo from

0:24:48.119 --> 0:24:53.879
<v Speaker 1>Demimur's spine and inject it into the other self, or

0:24:53.880 --> 0:24:56.480
<v Speaker 1>else she'll get like a bloody nose and she'll get

0:24:56.480 --> 0:25:01.879
<v Speaker 1>all dizzy and sick. Once she stabilizes, the Margaret quality

0:25:02.119 --> 0:25:05.719
<v Speaker 1>other self heads to a cast and call for the

0:25:05.840 --> 0:25:10.159
<v Speaker 1>new Elizabeth Sparkle, and she nails the audition and lands

0:25:10.200 --> 0:25:14.920
<v Speaker 1>the part because she is Elizabeth Sparkle. Although she calls

0:25:14.960 --> 0:25:24.080
<v Speaker 1>herself Sue. The network executive Harvey loves her because she's young, yep,

0:25:24.320 --> 0:25:24.600
<v Speaker 1>and the.

0:25:24.560 --> 0:25:26.840
<v Speaker 2>Way he talks to her is equally disgusting in a

0:25:26.880 --> 0:25:32.760
<v Speaker 2>totally different way. For sure, is like baby angel, mommy daughter,

0:25:33.040 --> 0:25:34.879
<v Speaker 2>Like it's yeah.

0:25:35.280 --> 0:25:37.840
<v Speaker 1>Sue tells him that she can only tape the show

0:25:37.920 --> 0:25:40.080
<v Speaker 1>every other week because she has to take care of

0:25:40.119 --> 0:25:44.520
<v Speaker 1>her sick mother, and Harvey's like, no problem, you're young,

0:25:44.760 --> 0:25:46.960
<v Speaker 1>so I'll bend over backwards for you.

0:25:47.240 --> 0:25:49.399
<v Speaker 2>Right, and like that was not my experience as a

0:25:49.720 --> 0:25:52.080
<v Speaker 2>woman in the workplace, but sure, they're like no work

0:25:52.160 --> 0:25:53.240
<v Speaker 2>twice as hard there.

0:25:54.000 --> 0:25:58.679
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, So Sue starts prepping for her fitness show, but

0:25:58.920 --> 0:26:02.760
<v Speaker 1>before she knows it, her first week is up and

0:26:02.800 --> 0:26:06.880
<v Speaker 1>she has to switch back to Elizabeth, who spends most

0:26:06.920 --> 0:26:11.560
<v Speaker 1>of her week watching TV. She does go out though,

0:26:11.600 --> 0:26:14.080
<v Speaker 1>at one point, to pick up her refill kit with

0:26:14.280 --> 0:26:22.240
<v Speaker 1>more injectable food goo and stabilizer containers. Cut to She's

0:26:22.280 --> 0:26:26.600
<v Speaker 1>Sue again, and you can tell that Sue thinks Elizabeth

0:26:26.800 --> 0:26:31.040
<v Speaker 1>is kind of pathetic. She builds a secret room in

0:26:31.080 --> 0:26:34.160
<v Speaker 1>her bathroom to like Elizabeth the most.

0:26:34.600 --> 0:26:36.440
<v Speaker 2>I love that. That is like the somehow the most

0:26:36.520 --> 0:26:41.359
<v Speaker 2>unrealistic thing that happens in the movie is that Sue

0:26:41.480 --> 0:26:45.560
<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth both know how to build like a secret like

0:26:45.760 --> 0:26:49.200
<v Speaker 2>panic room. It's great, Yeah, I'm on board.

0:26:49.359 --> 0:26:52.479
<v Speaker 1>Where did those skills come from? But it's part of

0:26:52.520 --> 0:26:56.440
<v Speaker 1>just like the you know, very heightened reality thing.

0:26:56.720 --> 0:26:58.920
<v Speaker 2>I really like, this whole movie is just a bad dream.

0:26:59.119 --> 0:27:00.440
<v Speaker 2>Like it's it makes sense.

0:27:00.760 --> 0:27:06.000
<v Speaker 1>Yes. Then it's the first taping of the new fitness

0:27:06.040 --> 0:27:11.639
<v Speaker 1>show of Sue's called Pump It Up. And oh, the

0:27:11.680 --> 0:27:16.120
<v Speaker 1>booties are shaking, the hips are thrusting.

0:27:16.000 --> 0:27:21.199
<v Speaker 2>But it is basically just hornier Elizabeth Sparkle because she

0:27:21.600 --> 0:27:23.879
<v Speaker 2>is hornier Elizabeth.

0:27:23.400 --> 0:27:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Bark Right, Sue goes out with her hot young friends.

0:27:29.920 --> 0:27:33.400
<v Speaker 1>She brings home a hot young guy, but oh no,

0:27:33.480 --> 0:27:36.920
<v Speaker 1>it's time to switch back to Elizabeth. But rather than

0:27:37.160 --> 0:27:40.840
<v Speaker 1>doing so when the time runs out, Sue extracts some

0:27:41.040 --> 0:27:45.920
<v Speaker 1>extra stabilizer goo from Elizabeth to give herself a little

0:27:45.960 --> 0:27:50.080
<v Speaker 1>bit of extra time so she can smooch this hot man.

0:27:50.480 --> 0:27:52.040
<v Speaker 2>And she's on the cover of Vogue.

0:27:52.440 --> 0:27:55.440
<v Speaker 1>And she's on the cover of Vogue. When they do

0:27:55.600 --> 0:27:59.480
<v Speaker 1>switch back and Elizabeth wakes up, she notices that one

0:27:59.520 --> 0:28:03.959
<v Speaker 1>of her fas is different. It's like gnarled, and it

0:28:04.000 --> 0:28:05.680
<v Speaker 1>looks much older.

0:28:06.040 --> 0:28:08.520
<v Speaker 2>It's like a snow white witch finger.

0:28:08.560 --> 0:28:13.720
<v Speaker 1>Yes exactly. She panics and calls the Substance Hotline to

0:28:13.760 --> 0:28:17.600
<v Speaker 1>see if it can be reversed, but it cannot, so

0:28:17.880 --> 0:28:23.200
<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth blames Sue. But the guy, the Substance hotline guy,

0:28:23.400 --> 0:28:27.359
<v Speaker 1>is like, remember, there is no her and you. You

0:28:27.520 --> 0:28:29.960
<v Speaker 1>are one, respect the balance.

0:28:30.040 --> 0:28:31.800
<v Speaker 2>The more you say that, the more I'm like, you

0:28:31.920 --> 0:28:35.760
<v Speaker 2>are right. They must share each other's memories.

0:28:36.040 --> 0:28:39.080
<v Speaker 1>I think they share consciousness, they share memories. They just

0:28:39.280 --> 0:28:41.480
<v Speaker 1>like really resent the hell out of each other.

0:28:41.920 --> 0:28:43.560
<v Speaker 2>Right, They just hate each other so much that they

0:28:43.600 --> 0:28:46.760
<v Speaker 2>are like blind to each other's intentions or something, or

0:28:46.760 --> 0:28:49.920
<v Speaker 2>even at the end where you know, Demi Moore is like, nah,

0:28:50.000 --> 0:28:55.000
<v Speaker 2>I can't kill you because I hate myself and you're like, oh, yeah,

0:28:55.080 --> 0:28:58.400
<v Speaker 2>it's true. But the guy on the other side of

0:28:58.400 --> 0:29:00.560
<v Speaker 2>the substance hotline, he cracks me up. But he's such

0:29:00.600 --> 0:29:05.880
<v Speaker 2>a little asshole. Where she's like, well, she's using too

0:29:05.960 --> 0:29:08.080
<v Speaker 2>much of her time, and he's like respect it. Click,

0:29:08.520 --> 0:29:10.160
<v Speaker 2>You're like, damn, okay.

0:29:09.960 --> 0:29:14.920
<v Speaker 1>He's a bitch. Yeah, voiced by an actor named jan Bean.

0:29:15.600 --> 0:29:16.400
<v Speaker 2>Well, he did great.

0:29:16.560 --> 0:29:20.760
<v Speaker 1>He did a great job anyway, So he's like respect

0:29:20.760 --> 0:29:24.560
<v Speaker 1>the balance. So Elizabeth is furious. She's clearly starting to

0:29:24.680 --> 0:29:28.680
<v Speaker 1>resent Sue. She goes to pick up another refill kit

0:29:28.960 --> 0:29:32.840
<v Speaker 1>and bumps into an old man who she realizes is

0:29:32.920 --> 0:29:36.600
<v Speaker 1>the older version of the young doctor who had told

0:29:36.640 --> 0:29:40.800
<v Speaker 1>her about the substance originally. He kind of reminds her

0:29:40.920 --> 0:29:45.760
<v Speaker 1>that the older versions of themselves still deserve to exist,

0:29:46.160 --> 0:29:49.840
<v Speaker 1>that they still matter. But she's very shaken up about

0:29:49.840 --> 0:29:51.040
<v Speaker 1>this whole interaction.

0:29:51.520 --> 0:29:53.240
<v Speaker 2>I mean, it is very scary.

0:29:53.520 --> 0:29:58.280
<v Speaker 1>It's alarming. Yeah, And she goes home and she calls

0:29:58.360 --> 0:30:02.040
<v Speaker 1>that guy Fred, the one she knew from high school

0:30:02.080 --> 0:30:04.560
<v Speaker 1>who said you're the most beautiful woman in the whole

0:30:04.640 --> 0:30:08.160
<v Speaker 1>wide world. And she asks if he wants to go

0:30:08.240 --> 0:30:11.160
<v Speaker 1>out with her, and they plan a date for that night.

0:30:12.000 --> 0:30:17.120
<v Speaker 1>But as Elizabeth is getting ready, she's clearly feeling very insecure.

0:30:17.840 --> 0:30:21.440
<v Speaker 1>She's applying more and more makeup, she's fussing with her hair,

0:30:22.040 --> 0:30:26.959
<v Speaker 1>maybe trying to look younger. Perhaps there's a billboard of

0:30:27.080 --> 0:30:31.160
<v Speaker 1>Sue that's very prominently displayed right outside her window.

0:30:31.560 --> 0:30:34.200
<v Speaker 2>I love that. I also because this VIVIEO is shot

0:30:34.240 --> 0:30:38.000
<v Speaker 2>in like mostly France, that's all like a painting, Yeah,

0:30:38.040 --> 0:30:38.800
<v Speaker 2>which is cool.

0:30:40.000 --> 0:30:42.240
<v Speaker 1>I mean, so many of the technical things about this

0:30:42.360 --> 0:30:47.520
<v Speaker 1>movie are really awesome, like the production design, the sound design, yeah,

0:30:47.520 --> 0:30:52.479
<v Speaker 1>the cinematography, all that stuff is like just so incredible. Anyway,

0:30:52.560 --> 0:30:57.680
<v Speaker 1>so this billboard is like taunting Elizabeth and she ends

0:30:57.760 --> 0:31:01.000
<v Speaker 1>up having a breakdown and she bails on the date

0:31:01.240 --> 0:31:08.200
<v Speaker 1>and stays home, and like binge eats cut to Sue

0:31:08.720 --> 0:31:12.680
<v Speaker 1>at a taping of her fitness show, and something weird happens.

0:31:12.720 --> 0:31:16.000
<v Speaker 1>There's a big bulge that like temporarily pops out of

0:31:16.040 --> 0:31:17.000
<v Speaker 1>her butt cheek.

0:31:17.880 --> 0:31:21.880
<v Speaker 2>This scene is it was really fun to watch it

0:31:21.880 --> 0:31:25.760
<v Speaker 2>in audience. But also like again, just like the nightmare

0:31:25.880 --> 0:31:29.120
<v Speaker 2>quality of how they're like, wait a sec, like it

0:31:29.160 --> 0:31:32.680
<v Speaker 2>moves so slow, but I don't know. Obviously, Sue is

0:31:32.720 --> 0:31:35.800
<v Speaker 2>not the more empathetic or sympathetic of the characters, but

0:31:35.840 --> 0:31:37.800
<v Speaker 2>I felt so bad for her. Where they're like, oh,

0:31:37.840 --> 0:31:40.920
<v Speaker 2>something looks weird, let's put it up so everyone can see,

0:31:41.920 --> 0:31:44.200
<v Speaker 2>and they're like, let's make it really slow.

0:31:44.480 --> 0:31:50.440
<v Speaker 1>Frame she's panicking, nightmare. She goes to her dressing room

0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:56.000
<v Speaker 1>and pulls a chicken drumstick out of her belly button. Awesome, horrifying.

0:31:56.440 --> 0:32:02.880
<v Speaker 1>I have a belly button thing, any fetish, No, I'm

0:32:03.080 --> 0:32:05.680
<v Speaker 1>so grossed out by belly button things, like the scene

0:32:05.680 --> 0:32:08.520
<v Speaker 1>from The Matrix when they pull the bug out of

0:32:08.560 --> 0:32:12.040
<v Speaker 1>his belly button. I cannot watch it to this day.

0:32:12.200 --> 0:32:14.800
<v Speaker 1>It grosses me out so much. Anyway, so that was

0:32:14.880 --> 0:32:19.400
<v Speaker 1>a horrifying moment in the movie for me. Sue is

0:32:19.520 --> 0:32:24.560
<v Speaker 1>again very frustrated with Elizabeth and she thinks she's about

0:32:24.600 --> 0:32:28.240
<v Speaker 1>to be fired from her show, but it turns out

0:32:28.280 --> 0:32:32.240
<v Speaker 1>that Sue is actually so popular that they're having her

0:32:32.400 --> 0:32:36.920
<v Speaker 1>host the network's New Year's Eve show. This is a

0:32:37.000 --> 0:32:38.840
<v Speaker 1>huge opportunity, which again.

0:32:38.640 --> 0:32:42.000
<v Speaker 2>It's just like right, the New Year's Eve show that

0:32:42.040 --> 0:32:44.160
<v Speaker 2>we all love exactly.

0:32:44.320 --> 0:32:47.560
<v Speaker 1>She's basically Ryan Seacrest question Mark.

0:32:47.680 --> 0:32:51.360
<v Speaker 2>Except Ryan Seacrest hosts something. It's like, it doesn't it's

0:32:51.400 --> 0:32:54.080
<v Speaker 2>so unclear what is supposed to happen at this show

0:32:55.160 --> 0:32:59.080
<v Speaker 2>where they're like there's dancers and there's Margaret Qualley and

0:32:59.120 --> 0:33:02.520
<v Speaker 2>you're like, oh, then that's all we know and that's

0:33:02.520 --> 0:33:03.239
<v Speaker 2>all we need to know.

0:33:03.680 --> 0:33:05.040
<v Speaker 1>I never even thought about that.

0:33:05.440 --> 0:33:08.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh, I couldn't stop thinking about it. Also, it's such

0:33:08.000 --> 0:33:10.760
<v Speaker 2>a small audience, Like it really did feel I know

0:33:10.800 --> 0:33:12.800
<v Speaker 2>that you're not a David lynchhead, but that it just

0:33:12.840 --> 0:33:16.360
<v Speaker 2>reminded me of like all of like the vacant theaters

0:33:16.400 --> 0:33:18.920
<v Speaker 2>that scary scenes and David Lynch movies take place in,

0:33:19.000 --> 0:33:21.280
<v Speaker 2>where you're like, why is this space so small? She's

0:33:21.320 --> 0:33:24.880
<v Speaker 2>the most famous person in the world. What is the show? What? Like,

0:33:25.600 --> 0:33:28.080
<v Speaker 2>why are people so excited about her when she can't?

0:33:28.120 --> 0:33:30.400
<v Speaker 2>I mean whatever, it's all like hyper stylized it, but

0:33:30.480 --> 0:33:33.000
<v Speaker 2>like it's just it's just funny.

0:33:33.040 --> 0:33:36.440
<v Speaker 1>They built that entire set, so that's not a real theater.

0:33:37.000 --> 0:33:40.040
<v Speaker 1>They built the theater set because they knew they were

0:33:40.040 --> 0:33:43.760
<v Speaker 1>gonna spray over five thousand gallons of fake blood.

0:33:43.920 --> 0:33:47.760
<v Speaker 2>And Corly Frejo is holding the blood gun the whole time.

0:33:48.040 --> 0:33:50.480
<v Speaker 2>She's like wearing that that like POV shot is like

0:33:50.840 --> 0:33:53.400
<v Speaker 2>wearing the helmet and this we can link it in.

0:33:53.520 --> 0:33:56.400
<v Speaker 2>There's like a half hour making of featurette that's on

0:33:56.440 --> 0:33:59.320
<v Speaker 2>YouTube that you can see so many most of the

0:33:59.320 --> 0:34:02.840
<v Speaker 2>POV shots that's our Coraley Frego with a helmet, Camon

0:34:03.160 --> 0:34:06.360
<v Speaker 2>Oh my gosh, like including the body horror shot where

0:34:06.720 --> 0:34:09.759
<v Speaker 2>Margaret Qualley is in the elevator like that's Coralate Like

0:34:09.800 --> 0:34:11.239
<v Speaker 2>it's just uh, it's so cool.

0:34:11.480 --> 0:34:16.720
<v Speaker 1>Hell yeah. Anyway, So the point is, Sue is given

0:34:17.040 --> 0:34:20.960
<v Speaker 1>this opportunity to host the huge New Year's Eve show

0:34:21.000 --> 0:34:25.319
<v Speaker 1>that the network does, and Sue is not gonna let

0:34:25.440 --> 0:34:30.080
<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth screw it up, and she basically starts living as Sue,

0:34:31.040 --> 0:34:36.960
<v Speaker 1>well past her allotted seven days. Sue does finally let

0:34:37.000 --> 0:34:40.920
<v Speaker 1>them switch and let Elizabeth live for a while, but

0:34:41.120 --> 0:34:43.600
<v Speaker 1>all of that extra time has taken a big toll

0:34:43.719 --> 0:34:47.839
<v Speaker 1>on Elizabeth, where basically half of her body is this

0:34:48.120 --> 0:34:55.880
<v Speaker 1>like just old looking haggish for lack of a better term, aesthetic.

0:34:56.080 --> 0:34:58.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I mean it is like definitely pulling from like

0:34:58.320 --> 0:35:00.320
<v Speaker 2>hag horror AESTHETICI.

0:35:00.160 --> 0:35:02.919
<v Speaker 1>Right, And there's lots to talk about there, we'll get there.

0:35:03.000 --> 0:35:05.880
<v Speaker 1>But she doesn't like the way she looks, and she

0:35:06.040 --> 0:35:09.320
<v Speaker 1>calls the substance hotline and the guy is like, well,

0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:11.680
<v Speaker 1>do you want to stop? You can go back to

0:35:11.800 --> 0:35:16.200
<v Speaker 1>being just you, although there's no reversing any of the

0:35:16.200 --> 0:35:20.080
<v Speaker 1>effects that this experience has had. So because she can't

0:35:20.120 --> 0:35:23.439
<v Speaker 1>reverse anything, she decides to keep going on with it.

0:35:24.280 --> 0:35:28.399
<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth takes out the French cookbook that Harvey had given

0:35:28.440 --> 0:35:31.160
<v Speaker 1>her as a parting gift when she got fired, and

0:35:31.239 --> 0:35:32.720
<v Speaker 1>she starts cooking up a storm.

0:35:32.880 --> 0:35:36.320
<v Speaker 2>We get a hot dog moment, blood sausage.

0:35:36.000 --> 0:35:40.000
<v Speaker 1>Oh right, because like, this is the grossest version of

0:35:40.040 --> 0:35:42.520
<v Speaker 1>French cooking that you've ever seen on screen. This is

0:35:42.600 --> 0:35:46.560
<v Speaker 1>no Julie and Julia. This is no the taste of things.

0:35:46.640 --> 0:35:49.799
<v Speaker 2>It's like, what if all French cooking was mayonnaise and

0:35:50.040 --> 0:35:52.759
<v Speaker 2>rotisserie chicken. Whatever it is.

0:35:52.800 --> 0:35:55.520
<v Speaker 1>It looks nasty as hell, but on purpose, like it

0:35:55.600 --> 0:35:59.319
<v Speaker 1>purposefully is like part of the horror and grotesqueness of

0:35:59.360 --> 0:36:03.040
<v Speaker 1>the movie. Yeah. This cooking scene is intercut with Sue

0:36:03.080 --> 0:36:06.520
<v Speaker 1>guesting on a late night talk show and she's being

0:36:06.560 --> 0:36:10.120
<v Speaker 1>asked about Elizabeth Sparkle and she's like I barely know

0:36:10.160 --> 0:36:13.440
<v Speaker 1>who that is. Her show is so old fashioned. Oh

0:36:13.480 --> 0:36:17.080
<v Speaker 1>me and my beauty secret. Definitely, it's not the substance

0:36:17.160 --> 0:36:18.200
<v Speaker 1>or anything like that.

0:36:18.480 --> 0:36:19.480
<v Speaker 2>Being myself.

0:36:20.000 --> 0:36:22.400
<v Speaker 1>It was like, I just try to be my authentic self.

0:36:22.840 --> 0:36:27.000
<v Speaker 2>That really did hit because many such cases of that,

0:36:28.360 --> 0:36:30.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean, that's like what the yeah, like what the

0:36:30.239 --> 0:36:33.520
<v Speaker 2>whole beauty industry is predicated on. Is it's like, oh,

0:36:33.560 --> 0:36:36.359
<v Speaker 2>it's just be yourself and give us money for this thing,

0:36:36.600 --> 0:36:41.759
<v Speaker 2>or like celebrities who have had other enhancements pretending that

0:36:42.200 --> 0:36:44.279
<v Speaker 2>they just use this tube that you can get for

0:36:44.360 --> 0:36:45.800
<v Speaker 2>fifty dollars at CBS.

0:36:46.520 --> 0:36:51.279
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So we cut back to Sue. She

0:36:52.160 --> 0:36:56.439
<v Speaker 1>decides that she's going to stay Sue for a very

0:36:56.440 --> 0:36:59.879
<v Speaker 1>long time, and she extracts a shitload of stabilizer goo

0:37:00.120 --> 0:37:03.800
<v Speaker 1>from Elizabeth's very infected spine.

0:37:04.560 --> 0:37:05.320
<v Speaker 2>Ugh ugh.

0:37:05.360 --> 0:37:09.160
<v Speaker 1>And this is the part where she lives as Sue

0:37:09.200 --> 0:37:10.320
<v Speaker 1>for three full months.

0:37:10.680 --> 0:37:13.239
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, she has like she's in a long term relationship

0:37:13.320 --> 0:37:13.879
<v Speaker 2>with time.

0:37:14.280 --> 0:37:17.400
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. Yes, and she's on top of the world and

0:37:17.520 --> 0:37:19.839
<v Speaker 1>the big New Year's Eve show is the next day.

0:37:20.800 --> 0:37:24.000
<v Speaker 1>But when she goes to take out more stabilizer fluid

0:37:24.040 --> 0:37:28.600
<v Speaker 1>from Elizabeth, it's all discolored and rotten, and she has

0:37:28.640 --> 0:37:32.480
<v Speaker 1>no choice but to switch back to Elizabeth to generate

0:37:32.560 --> 0:37:36.560
<v Speaker 1>more of this stabilizer fluid. When they switch, and when

0:37:36.680 --> 0:37:43.959
<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth wakes up, oh boy, she's like full hag mode again.

0:37:44.239 --> 0:37:47.600
<v Speaker 1>I don't know how health to say it, but she's bold.

0:37:47.920 --> 0:37:50.239
<v Speaker 1>She's very like hunched over.

0:37:50.760 --> 0:37:55.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, it's like a again, like a hyper stylized aging

0:37:55.440 --> 0:37:57.719
<v Speaker 2>for sure, yes, which is like I'm interested to talk

0:37:57.719 --> 0:37:59.120
<v Speaker 2>about that with you because I'm like, that's one thing

0:37:59.120 --> 0:38:01.000
<v Speaker 2>where I'm like, I I don't know how to feel about.

0:38:01.040 --> 0:38:03.920
<v Speaker 1>And we'll talk to the same we'll get there. But

0:38:04.040 --> 0:38:07.400
<v Speaker 1>she calls the substance hotline once again, and she says

0:38:07.440 --> 0:38:10.959
<v Speaker 1>she wants to stop the experience, so she is sent

0:38:11.200 --> 0:38:16.320
<v Speaker 1>a termination kit and she kills or attempts to kill

0:38:16.400 --> 0:38:20.759
<v Speaker 1>Sue with a lethal injection. But then she remembers all

0:38:20.800 --> 0:38:24.359
<v Speaker 1>of her hopes and dreams of being a star and

0:38:24.440 --> 0:38:28.520
<v Speaker 1>of being adored by fans, and she changes her mind

0:38:28.600 --> 0:38:30.839
<v Speaker 1>and she wants to bring Sue back because she knows

0:38:30.880 --> 0:38:34.680
<v Speaker 1>that she needs her to live out these dreams. So

0:38:35.120 --> 0:38:41.840
<v Speaker 1>Elizabeth initiates the switch between them, which does bring Sue back,

0:38:42.000 --> 0:38:44.759
<v Speaker 1>but now they're both awake at the same time, which

0:38:44.800 --> 0:38:47.440
<v Speaker 1>is the first time this has happened in the movie.

0:38:48.239 --> 0:38:51.640
<v Speaker 1>Sue realizes that Elizabeth tried to terminate her, so she

0:38:51.880 --> 0:38:56.920
<v Speaker 1>attacks Elizabeth. They scuffle for a while, and Sue really

0:38:57.000 --> 0:38:59.759
<v Speaker 1>beats and bloodies the hell out of Elizabeth.

0:39:00.200 --> 0:39:04.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, just I guess to sell you on revenge. Revenge

0:39:04.640 --> 0:39:09.000
<v Speaker 2>is like that scene for an hour and a half. WHOA, Okay,

0:39:10.040 --> 0:39:13.960
<v Speaker 2>it's extremely violent. Yeah yeah, but it's mostly the young

0:39:14.000 --> 0:39:16.279
<v Speaker 2>woman kicking the shit out of her oppressors.

0:39:17.080 --> 0:39:21.600
<v Speaker 1>Yes, that sounds cathartic. This was not cathartic to watch,

0:39:21.920 --> 0:39:27.400
<v Speaker 1>very troubling and difficult because it's so violent and Sue

0:39:27.440 --> 0:39:30.160
<v Speaker 1>is like trying to kill Elizabeth, but she realizes she

0:39:30.239 --> 0:39:33.680
<v Speaker 1>can't because they are one. And she realizes she has

0:39:33.680 --> 0:39:36.040
<v Speaker 1>to get ready for the New Year's Eve show, so

0:39:36.120 --> 0:39:41.520
<v Speaker 1>she goes to the studio, but Sue isn't feeling too great.

0:39:42.120 --> 0:39:47.319
<v Speaker 1>Her teeth a falling out, her ear falls off, and

0:39:47.360 --> 0:39:53.160
<v Speaker 1>she gets the idea, what if she substances herself because

0:39:53.239 --> 0:39:57.239
<v Speaker 1>she now needs a newer and quote unquote better and

0:39:57.320 --> 0:40:01.040
<v Speaker 1>more beautiful version of herself. So she goes back home

0:40:01.320 --> 0:40:05.560
<v Speaker 1>and injects herself with the leftover activator fluid, you know,

0:40:05.680 --> 0:40:07.600
<v Speaker 1>the stuff that you were only supposed to use once

0:40:07.680 --> 0:40:08.480
<v Speaker 1>and throw away.

0:40:09.160 --> 0:40:13.799
<v Speaker 2>I thought the first time I saw this movie that

0:40:13.800 --> 0:40:16.200
<v Speaker 2>that would kill her and that would be it. I

0:40:16.239 --> 0:40:17.960
<v Speaker 2>thought that that was how it was gonna end.

0:40:18.080 --> 0:40:21.160
<v Speaker 1>Got it? But that's not That is not what happens.

0:40:21.360 --> 0:40:23.840
<v Speaker 2>No, it's actually just the end of act two, which

0:40:24.520 --> 0:40:27.239
<v Speaker 2>I did not see coming. Right.

0:40:27.520 --> 0:40:32.239
<v Speaker 1>So she injects herself with this fluid. She collapses, her

0:40:32.400 --> 0:40:38.080
<v Speaker 1>back splits open, and she gives birth to a grotesque

0:40:38.320 --> 0:40:45.040
<v Speaker 1>body horror combination of Elizabeth and Sue, with like body

0:40:45.120 --> 0:40:48.640
<v Speaker 1>parts all over the place. There are multiple faces and

0:40:48.840 --> 0:40:50.760
<v Speaker 1>teeth and breasts.

0:40:50.440 --> 0:40:52.760
<v Speaker 2>Called monstro Eliza, Sue.

0:40:53.120 --> 0:40:57.360
<v Speaker 1>Yes. She puts her dress back on the one that

0:40:57.400 --> 0:41:00.800
<v Speaker 1>she's gonna wear for the show. She makes a little

0:41:00.880 --> 0:41:04.879
<v Speaker 1>mask for herself, and she goes back to the TV

0:41:05.040 --> 0:41:09.000
<v Speaker 1>studio and she steps on stage and everyone is like,

0:41:09.719 --> 0:41:14.080
<v Speaker 1>oh my gosh, what is that? And then she gives

0:41:14.120 --> 0:41:19.000
<v Speaker 1>birth to a breast from a vagina that's on her head,

0:41:20.040 --> 0:41:21.240
<v Speaker 1>and that's feminism.

0:41:21.360 --> 0:41:25.120
<v Speaker 2>And they're flashing back to like all of these like

0:41:25.280 --> 0:41:27.640
<v Speaker 2>cruel things that men have said to her and Sue

0:41:27.640 --> 0:41:30.080
<v Speaker 2>throughout the movie, where it's like now everything's in the

0:41:30.239 --> 0:41:30.880
<v Speaker 2>right place.

0:41:33.080 --> 0:41:36.800
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I wasn't expecting that to like pay off really

0:41:36.880 --> 0:41:39.160
<v Speaker 1>in any way, but.

0:41:38.520 --> 0:41:42.319
<v Speaker 2>I was like, oh, yeah, she's playing five D chests. Yeah.

0:41:42.360 --> 0:41:45.960
<v Speaker 1>Then you watch a titty fallout of a face pussy

0:41:46.080 --> 0:41:51.680
<v Speaker 1>and you're like whooo, yep, yep. People start freaking out

0:41:52.160 --> 0:41:57.600
<v Speaker 1>and they're screaming freak and monster, and then monstro Eliza

0:41:57.640 --> 0:42:01.840
<v Speaker 1>Sue starts to come apart, like literally that she's spraying

0:42:01.960 --> 0:42:04.680
<v Speaker 1>blood all over the audience. This is the like five

0:42:04.800 --> 0:42:06.600
<v Speaker 1>thousand gallons of fake blood.

0:42:06.719 --> 0:42:09.520
<v Speaker 2>It's like Carrie times a million.

0:42:09.840 --> 0:42:15.160
<v Speaker 1>Is Eventually, Eliza Sue makes her way out of the

0:42:15.239 --> 0:42:19.360
<v Speaker 1>studio and onto the street, where she kind of explodes.

0:42:20.120 --> 0:42:24.919
<v Speaker 1>Although Elizabeth's face is still sort of intact and it's

0:42:25.040 --> 0:42:29.000
<v Speaker 1>surrounded by like flesh and guts and it's able to

0:42:29.080 --> 0:42:34.759
<v Speaker 1>sort of drag her face onto her Hollywood Walk of

0:42:34.800 --> 0:42:39.040
<v Speaker 1>Fame star. Yeah, and then she kind of like imagines

0:42:39.360 --> 0:42:43.879
<v Speaker 1>slash fantasizes about people cheering and praising her.

0:42:44.360 --> 0:42:47.719
<v Speaker 2>It reminded me a little bit of well, there is

0:42:47.800 --> 0:42:50.400
<v Speaker 2>like a few sections of this movie that reminded me

0:42:50.400 --> 0:42:53.080
<v Speaker 2>a little bit of the ending of Black Swan as well. HM,

0:42:53.840 --> 0:42:57.160
<v Speaker 2>where it's like, you know, I mean, even though in

0:42:57.200 --> 0:43:01.359
<v Speaker 2>Black Swan, unfortunately the main character has a little bit

0:43:01.400 --> 0:43:04.640
<v Speaker 2>happier of an ending, you could argue because she does

0:43:04.760 --> 0:43:08.800
<v Speaker 2>this you know, impossible accomplishment and it kills her. Elizabeth

0:43:08.800 --> 0:43:10.560
<v Speaker 2>doesn't get what she wants and it kills her. But

0:43:10.560 --> 0:43:12.520
<v Speaker 2>if like just that whole like gazing up at the

0:43:12.640 --> 0:43:15.279
<v Speaker 2>sky and like, you know, thinking it, it just felt

0:43:15.280 --> 0:43:16.880
<v Speaker 2>like an eye was perfect kind of moment.

0:43:18.080 --> 0:43:21.800
<v Speaker 1>True. Wow, I was reminded, and I have not seen

0:43:22.360 --> 0:43:24.920
<v Speaker 1>the thing in a very long time, but there's a

0:43:24.960 --> 0:43:29.880
<v Speaker 1>similar creature that's just like a bunch of body parts,

0:43:29.920 --> 0:43:33.880
<v Speaker 1>just like a hunk of various body parts in different places,

0:43:34.440 --> 0:43:37.600
<v Speaker 1>and it kind of reminded me of that creature. Interesting

0:43:38.320 --> 0:43:42.680
<v Speaker 1>just from like a visual standpoint anyway. So Elizabeth's face

0:43:43.280 --> 0:43:49.080
<v Speaker 1>drags itself onto her Walk of Fame star and then

0:43:49.160 --> 0:43:54.520
<v Speaker 1>she melts. Yeah, and then the next day the like

0:43:54.680 --> 0:43:58.480
<v Speaker 1>blood and goo is cleaned off, and that is the

0:43:58.680 --> 0:44:01.920
<v Speaker 1>end of the movie. So let's take another quick break

0:44:01.960 --> 0:44:11.200
<v Speaker 1>and we'll come back to discuss.

0:44:13.239 --> 0:44:19.600
<v Speaker 2>And we're back. Where should we start? I mean, there's

0:44:19.640 --> 0:44:23.280
<v Speaker 2>so much to talk about yea here. I mean, I've

0:44:23.640 --> 0:44:26.160
<v Speaker 2>read a couple of them, because this is a movie

0:44:26.200 --> 0:44:29.120
<v Speaker 2>that launched a bajillion takes, there would be no way

0:44:29.200 --> 0:44:32.080
<v Speaker 2>to consume them all. But I did enjoy it, you know,

0:44:32.320 --> 0:44:37.280
<v Speaker 2>like particularly seeing women whose work and brains I admire

0:44:37.719 --> 0:44:39.520
<v Speaker 2>trying to figure out why they either did or didn't

0:44:39.680 --> 0:44:43.399
<v Speaker 2>like this movie, even when I disagreed. But I guess

0:44:43.880 --> 0:44:47.480
<v Speaker 2>my curiosity because there were elements of this movie that

0:44:47.560 --> 0:44:50.040
<v Speaker 2>like I. As I was watching it the first time,

0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:52.480
<v Speaker 2>I was like, there is a clear, I think like

0:44:52.640 --> 0:44:57.759
<v Speaker 2>ablest read of this movie in certain moments, and I wasn't.

0:44:57.800 --> 0:44:59.960
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't able to find an essay or anything other

0:45:00.080 --> 0:45:03.000
<v Speaker 2>been just like an observation about ableism. So I can't

0:45:03.040 --> 0:45:05.080
<v Speaker 2>really speak to that. I'm also not the right person

0:45:05.160 --> 0:45:06.560
<v Speaker 2>to speak to that, but I wanted to mention that

0:45:07.440 --> 0:45:10.160
<v Speaker 2>I guess, like, I've saw a lot of takes that

0:45:10.280 --> 0:45:16.040
<v Speaker 2>were like, the movie is agist, and I guess I

0:45:16.280 --> 0:45:20.280
<v Speaker 2>just like don't agree with that, and I think it's interesting.

0:45:20.360 --> 0:45:22.400
<v Speaker 2>And I'm not like calling anyone specific person out, but

0:45:22.480 --> 0:45:25.319
<v Speaker 2>most of the critics I saw calling this movie out

0:45:25.360 --> 0:45:29.879
<v Speaker 2>as asist were younger women, which I found interesting because

0:45:29.920 --> 0:45:32.920
<v Speaker 2>I think that there is elements of this movie that

0:45:33.719 --> 0:45:35.399
<v Speaker 2>I think if I saw this movie ten years ago,

0:45:35.440 --> 0:45:37.080
<v Speaker 2>I would have loved it, and I probably would have

0:45:37.080 --> 0:45:40.840
<v Speaker 2>thought it's a little agist, But after like especially listening

0:45:40.880 --> 0:45:46.560
<v Speaker 2>to interviews with Cora Lea Fresio, like she is trying

0:45:46.600 --> 0:45:50.680
<v Speaker 2>to and I think successfully, like processing her own feelings

0:45:50.719 --> 0:45:54.920
<v Speaker 2>about aging on screen, and like in most interviews with her,

0:45:54.920 --> 0:45:57.759
<v Speaker 2>because she's in her early fifties I believe now, and

0:45:57.840 --> 0:46:00.480
<v Speaker 2>she didn't start directing until she was well into forties,

0:46:00.520 --> 0:46:03.439
<v Speaker 2>and she talked about, you know, the insecurities that came

0:46:03.719 --> 0:46:06.719
<v Speaker 2>around that and just the feeling that she was just

0:46:06.719 --> 0:46:09.839
<v Speaker 2>getting started. But soon she kept using the term of

0:46:09.840 --> 0:46:13.040
<v Speaker 2>like I just felt like, even though it was irrational,

0:46:13.080 --> 0:46:15.799
<v Speaker 2>I felt like when I turned fifty, I would be erased.

0:46:16.360 --> 0:46:18.839
<v Speaker 2>And that is like what this movie is about is

0:46:19.120 --> 0:46:22.600
<v Speaker 2>that Elizabeth is being slowly erased. And I don't know,

0:46:22.760 --> 0:46:24.960
<v Speaker 2>like I guess, yeah, what is your take on that.

0:46:25.360 --> 0:46:27.719
<v Speaker 2>I understand the read of it. I just that's not

0:46:27.800 --> 0:46:28.480
<v Speaker 2>how I see it.

0:46:29.280 --> 0:46:33.719
<v Speaker 1>So corale Farja is forty eight, Okay at the time

0:46:33.719 --> 0:46:35.719
<v Speaker 1>of this recording, she would have been in her mid

0:46:35.840 --> 0:46:38.120
<v Speaker 1>forties when she was making this movie, because I think

0:46:38.120 --> 0:46:41.279
<v Speaker 1>they started shooting in twenty twenty two. I believe my

0:46:41.400 --> 0:46:44.799
<v Speaker 1>take on this, like does the movie do the thing

0:46:44.840 --> 0:46:47.759
<v Speaker 1>that we have talked about a lot before on the podcast,

0:46:48.040 --> 0:46:53.279
<v Speaker 1>where the horror and grotesqueness that is coming from the

0:46:53.320 --> 0:46:58.040
<v Speaker 1>horror movie is at the expense of the body of

0:46:58.080 --> 0:47:01.440
<v Speaker 1>an old woman, and we generally do not like that

0:47:01.600 --> 0:47:08.040
<v Speaker 1>because of its ageist implications. Yes, the movie is doing that. However,

0:47:08.520 --> 0:47:11.560
<v Speaker 1>this time it's coming from the like writer, director of

0:47:11.640 --> 0:47:16.240
<v Speaker 1>perspective of a woman, so it is happening on her terms.

0:47:16.360 --> 0:47:20.440
<v Speaker 1>You could maybe still argue that her examining all this

0:47:20.680 --> 0:47:25.319
<v Speaker 1>is coming from like internalized agism, But I.

0:47:25.239 --> 0:47:28.920
<v Speaker 2>Think exploring internalized agism is like, I think it's a

0:47:29.000 --> 0:47:32.479
<v Speaker 2>valid thing to do in a movie because, especially because

0:47:32.520 --> 0:47:36.680
<v Speaker 2>she's pretty explicit that, like, this movie was developed out

0:47:36.680 --> 0:47:41.640
<v Speaker 2>of like feelings of anxiety and insecurity she had about herself, right,

0:47:41.800 --> 0:47:44.080
<v Speaker 2>And I know that I've certainly been guilty of this

0:47:44.120 --> 0:47:46.680
<v Speaker 2>over the years of just like expecting the movie to

0:47:47.160 --> 0:47:53.800
<v Speaker 2>provide a comforting solution to this problem that has existed

0:47:53.840 --> 0:47:56.920
<v Speaker 2>forever and is not going to be, you know, solved

0:47:57.880 --> 0:48:00.440
<v Speaker 2>by a single movie. And that's not the purpose of

0:48:00.440 --> 0:48:02.600
<v Speaker 2>the movie. It's not a movie for cybe, it's not

0:48:02.640 --> 0:48:05.600
<v Speaker 2>a movie for children, Like you know, it's it's a

0:48:05.640 --> 0:48:08.279
<v Speaker 2>movie that is like exploring anxiety. But I feel like

0:48:08.280 --> 0:48:11.200
<v Speaker 2>there's sometimes a feeling that a movie that explores in

0:48:11.239 --> 0:48:15.520
<v Speaker 2>anxiety also has to resolve it, and that's not how

0:48:16.080 --> 0:48:17.320
<v Speaker 2>most anxiety works.

0:48:17.360 --> 0:48:20.080
<v Speaker 1>I don't know right for sure. What I'll say is

0:48:20.120 --> 0:48:26.319
<v Speaker 1>that at the very least, the like old woman grotesqueness,

0:48:26.960 --> 0:48:30.880
<v Speaker 1>at least it's not coming from a like cis Man

0:48:31.000 --> 0:48:36.399
<v Speaker 1>director who's simply just like, old women's bodies are so gross, right,

0:48:37.200 --> 0:48:40.640
<v Speaker 1>It's not that this time it's a woman exploring what

0:48:40.840 --> 0:48:45.400
<v Speaker 1>it is to have a female body in the context

0:48:45.640 --> 0:48:50.240
<v Speaker 1>of a world that covets and fetishizes but also hates

0:48:50.960 --> 0:48:51.840
<v Speaker 1>female bodies.

0:48:52.040 --> 0:48:56.080
<v Speaker 2>So like this movie is only exploring CIS women for sure.

0:48:56.160 --> 0:49:00.200
<v Speaker 1>Yes, yeah, worth noting that definitely. There's an interview I

0:49:00.239 --> 0:49:08.320
<v Speaker 1>read in Offscreen Central with Corale Farjah with interviewer Kenzie Vanenu.

0:49:09.320 --> 0:49:15.440
<v Speaker 1>In this interview, Coraly says about the kind of body

0:49:15.440 --> 0:49:18.920
<v Speaker 1>horror aspect of the movie, quote, I think living with

0:49:19.040 --> 0:49:21.799
<v Speaker 1>our body from the start is a really hard experience.

0:49:21.960 --> 0:49:25.719
<v Speaker 1>The reality of our body, of the flesh, bone and

0:49:25.920 --> 0:49:29.680
<v Speaker 1>the blood of everything, is something that I think truly

0:49:29.719 --> 0:49:33.200
<v Speaker 1>shapes and defines our relationship to ourselves to the world,

0:49:33.640 --> 0:49:37.760
<v Speaker 1>and that is almost not taken into account. They're super taboo,

0:49:37.960 --> 0:49:42.360
<v Speaker 1>like the pain during the period the menopause. We're supposed

0:49:42.360 --> 0:49:44.840
<v Speaker 1>to hide all of this, it's supposed to not exist.

0:49:45.400 --> 0:49:47.680
<v Speaker 1>And so for me, body horror was something that I

0:49:47.800 --> 0:49:51.439
<v Speaker 1>naturally resonate so much with what we experience very much

0:49:51.520 --> 0:49:54.440
<v Speaker 1>in our everyday life, and it's a perfect symbol of

0:49:54.520 --> 0:49:58.880
<v Speaker 1>the violence of all the fears that we can project.

0:49:59.440 --> 0:50:02.600
<v Speaker 1>Society ask our bodies not to change, for it to

0:50:02.680 --> 0:50:06.840
<v Speaker 1>stay the same, to stay perfect, to stay sexy. Of course,

0:50:06.880 --> 0:50:10.359
<v Speaker 1>it's terrifying when your body is changing, because all day

0:50:10.400 --> 0:50:13.520
<v Speaker 1>long we hear that it shouldn't change, that it should

0:50:13.719 --> 0:50:16.560
<v Speaker 1>still be the same. That's the only way that you're

0:50:16.600 --> 0:50:19.920
<v Speaker 1>going to be appreciated or valued. So when the body

0:50:20.000 --> 0:50:23.960
<v Speaker 1>actually lives its life of a normal body, it's totally

0:50:24.040 --> 0:50:27.640
<v Speaker 1>terrifying because we are not taught that it's just normal.

0:50:29.080 --> 0:50:32.080
<v Speaker 2>I think that's like a very clear statement of.

0:50:32.040 --> 0:50:38.520
<v Speaker 1>Intent, right and maybe down the line societally, if we

0:50:38.600 --> 0:50:44.280
<v Speaker 1>ever get there where culturally we just accept aging bodies

0:50:44.360 --> 0:50:50.560
<v Speaker 1>and particularly aging women's bodies, and like people aren't conditioned

0:50:50.560 --> 0:50:54.359
<v Speaker 1>to be horrified by that. Like a story like this

0:50:55.080 --> 0:50:58.520
<v Speaker 1>won't need to exist or that won't be something that

0:50:58.680 --> 0:51:03.200
<v Speaker 1>like an artist would be inclined to explore. But yeah,

0:51:03.239 --> 0:51:07.960
<v Speaker 1>considering just like the cultural context of of how society

0:51:08.040 --> 0:51:13.560
<v Speaker 1>disproportionately values a woman's youth, Yeah, we do need stories

0:51:13.560 --> 0:51:16.240
<v Speaker 1>that like examine the effects that that has on people,

0:51:16.760 --> 0:51:19.600
<v Speaker 1>and not just older people, like people of all ages.

0:51:19.719 --> 0:51:24.360
<v Speaker 1>Like it'll manifest as internalized agism maybe for older people.

0:51:24.640 --> 0:51:28.400
<v Speaker 1>It also affects younger people because they're afraid of getting

0:51:28.440 --> 0:51:29.720
<v Speaker 1>old and like, hey.

0:51:29.600 --> 0:51:32.040
<v Speaker 2>I mean it's like there's so I mean, and I've

0:51:32.080 --> 0:51:35.160
<v Speaker 2>seen takes of like this is very timely and like

0:51:35.239 --> 0:51:37.200
<v Speaker 2>this is the worst possible movie that can come out

0:51:37.239 --> 0:51:40.040
<v Speaker 2>at this time for young women whatever. I will say that,

0:51:40.080 --> 0:51:42.880
<v Speaker 2>like this is the kind of movie that, especially if

0:51:43.280 --> 0:51:48.279
<v Speaker 2>you are a woman, will will probably resonate with you

0:51:48.400 --> 0:51:52.320
<v Speaker 2>because that is how you're perceived. And I was like, embarrassingly,

0:51:52.600 --> 0:51:55.040
<v Speaker 2>like when I left the movie, one of the things

0:51:55.160 --> 0:51:57.399
<v Speaker 2>was like, why don't I have boobs like that? It's

0:51:57.440 --> 0:51:59.960
<v Speaker 2>because they don't exist, U, It's because they made them up.

0:52:00.280 --> 0:52:02.600
<v Speaker 2>And of course, like you bring all your own insecurities

0:52:02.680 --> 0:52:07.120
<v Speaker 2>right to a movie that is explicitly about insecurity. However,

0:52:08.320 --> 0:52:11.800
<v Speaker 2>flawed but an observation I thought was interesting that I

0:52:11.840 --> 0:52:14.960
<v Speaker 2>think was actually from Maya. I watched a couple of

0:52:15.000 --> 0:52:17.560
<v Speaker 2>different videos and red essays it was all blending together.

0:52:17.600 --> 0:52:19.640
<v Speaker 2>I think it was may Ea because I think that

0:52:19.680 --> 0:52:22.440
<v Speaker 2>you know, the reasons this movie doesn't resonate with women

0:52:22.640 --> 0:52:26.400
<v Speaker 2>is also a totally valid read. But we've never been

0:52:26.480 --> 0:52:29.279
<v Speaker 2>wrong before, no kidding, o, no. But Maya made a

0:52:29.280 --> 0:52:33.960
<v Speaker 2>really good point in saying that something that frustrated her

0:52:34.560 --> 0:52:37.520
<v Speaker 2>with regard to this movie was that she couldn't think

0:52:37.640 --> 0:52:43.960
<v Speaker 2>of a movie that showed an older or elderly woman's

0:52:44.160 --> 0:52:47.759
<v Speaker 2>naked body that wasn't a horror movie. I think that

0:52:47.880 --> 0:52:49.600
<v Speaker 2>is a really valid point. I just don't think that

0:52:49.600 --> 0:52:52.719
<v Speaker 2>that is a fault of the substance necessarily. I do

0:52:52.760 --> 0:52:55.840
<v Speaker 2>think that that's a cultural thing, is that we're trained

0:52:55.880 --> 0:52:59.880
<v Speaker 2>to see an elderly woman's body as a site of horror,

0:53:00.600 --> 0:53:02.520
<v Speaker 2>and you can argue that the substance does that. But

0:53:02.719 --> 0:53:05.799
<v Speaker 2>I agree with you, Caitlin, that that is I don't know.

0:53:05.880 --> 0:53:09.839
<v Speaker 2>I can see like if I was very old and

0:53:09.920 --> 0:53:12.719
<v Speaker 2>saw that depiction, especially because it's a younger actor in

0:53:12.880 --> 0:53:17.839
<v Speaker 2>elderly prosthetics, which we see in movies like Pearl, which

0:53:17.840 --> 0:53:20.799
<v Speaker 2>we see it like it is a fairly common thing. Like,

0:53:20.840 --> 0:53:22.520
<v Speaker 2>I think that that is a valid point to make

0:53:22.520 --> 0:53:26.879
<v Speaker 2>that this movie isn't really changing that. But I also

0:53:26.880 --> 0:53:29.120
<v Speaker 2>I am like, if the alternative is casting an older

0:53:29.160 --> 0:53:31.319
<v Speaker 2>actor and treating them as a side of horror, I

0:53:31.320 --> 0:53:33.440
<v Speaker 2>don't like that better. I don't really know what the

0:53:33.480 --> 0:53:34.920
<v Speaker 2>solution is there.

0:53:36.080 --> 0:53:40.440
<v Speaker 1>Counterpoint sort of, So Elizabeth Sparkle, the character is supposed

0:53:40.480 --> 0:53:42.600
<v Speaker 1>to be fifty, like we see her on her fiftieth

0:53:42.640 --> 0:53:45.480
<v Speaker 1>birthday at the start of the movie, right, although to

0:53:45.520 --> 0:53:49.200
<v Speaker 1>me Moore she's currently sixty two. She was sixty when

0:53:49.200 --> 0:53:54.080
<v Speaker 1>the movie started filming, So you know, she's an older

0:53:54.120 --> 0:53:58.120
<v Speaker 1>woman whose naked body at first is not shown to

0:53:58.200 --> 0:54:01.440
<v Speaker 1>be grotesque and horror.

0:54:01.960 --> 0:54:04.120
<v Speaker 2>No, it's just what you see is that she is

0:54:04.160 --> 0:54:08.120
<v Speaker 2>not happy with her body the main takeaway. And yeah,

0:54:08.160 --> 0:54:10.400
<v Speaker 2>I felt like some people being like, well you do

0:54:10.480 --> 0:54:12.920
<v Speaker 2>see Demi Moore's gross body a little bit at the beginning.

0:54:12.960 --> 0:54:15.360
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, well, that's a you problem that you forget

0:54:15.400 --> 0:54:16.520
<v Speaker 2>if you think that's gross.

0:54:16.560 --> 0:54:21.279
<v Speaker 1>Also like, okay, yes, she's sixty and she has a

0:54:21.320 --> 0:54:22.480
<v Speaker 1>beautiful body.

0:54:22.640 --> 0:54:23.759
<v Speaker 2>She's famously hot.

0:54:23.840 --> 0:54:26.680
<v Speaker 1>Demi Moore is famously hot, especially by you know, Western

0:54:26.719 --> 0:54:32.040
<v Speaker 1>beauty standards, but her sixty year old body is I mean,

0:54:32.440 --> 0:54:35.680
<v Speaker 1>she has access as a like rich and famous celebrity,

0:54:36.440 --> 0:54:41.120
<v Speaker 1>she has access to you know, the best like fitness

0:54:41.160 --> 0:54:46.399
<v Speaker 1>training and food that helps maintain a certain physique. And

0:54:47.200 --> 0:54:50.440
<v Speaker 1>I have no idea how many or if any cosmetic

0:54:50.480 --> 0:54:54.800
<v Speaker 1>procedures she has had, but like many many actors and

0:54:54.840 --> 0:54:59.040
<v Speaker 1>celebrities and stuff, do no judgment about that. But like

0:54:59.440 --> 0:55:02.799
<v Speaker 1>the whole thing about the entertainment industry is that you're

0:55:02.840 --> 0:55:07.480
<v Speaker 1>expected to look a certain way. And so Demi Moore's

0:55:07.640 --> 0:55:11.759
<v Speaker 1>six year old body compared to like an average person's

0:55:11.920 --> 0:55:16.680
<v Speaker 1>sixty year old body is quite different. So there's that

0:55:16.680 --> 0:55:18.120
<v Speaker 1>that you have to take into account.

0:55:18.880 --> 0:55:22.800
<v Speaker 2>Right, I agree with you absolutely. I guess another criticism

0:55:22.880 --> 0:55:26.440
<v Speaker 2>I was chafing with is like criticisms that I feel

0:55:26.480 --> 0:55:30.200
<v Speaker 2>like that's kind of the point. Like if it wasn't

0:55:30.239 --> 0:55:35.600
<v Speaker 2>the point, then Elizabeth Sparkle wouldn't be a famous media personality, right,

0:55:35.800 --> 0:55:37.560
<v Speaker 2>it wouldn't be, like I mean, and not to say

0:55:37.560 --> 0:55:42.040
<v Speaker 2>that there aren't actors who naturally age, that's absolutely true,

0:55:42.480 --> 0:55:44.440
<v Speaker 2>and it's like tricky to have this conversation, but I

0:55:44.440 --> 0:55:48.120
<v Speaker 2>think that this movie has it pretty effectively where realistically

0:55:48.640 --> 0:55:51.239
<v Speaker 2>because of the expectations. And I can think of, you know,

0:55:51.440 --> 0:55:54.919
<v Speaker 2>five actors over fifty off the top of my head,

0:55:55.280 --> 0:55:58.000
<v Speaker 2>who are women who are working high up in Hollywood,

0:55:58.320 --> 0:56:01.880
<v Speaker 2>and they've all had to do some thing to maintain

0:56:02.160 --> 0:56:04.840
<v Speaker 2>a look of youth. And that is not a criticism

0:56:04.920 --> 0:56:07.719
<v Speaker 2>of them. I think that that is like, unfortunately, the

0:56:07.880 --> 0:56:12.520
<v Speaker 2>uncanny moment that we're in that if you want to

0:56:12.560 --> 0:56:15.680
<v Speaker 2>still be a leading lady and not a character actor,

0:56:16.080 --> 0:56:21.720
<v Speaker 2>you are not able to age naturally. And I do believe,

0:56:21.719 --> 0:56:23.799
<v Speaker 2>like I think that sometimes we get this messaging of like,

0:56:24.120 --> 0:56:27.000
<v Speaker 2>isn't it amazing that like women over fifty can be

0:56:27.040 --> 0:56:30.640
<v Speaker 2>a movies now? And you're like, yes, because these women

0:56:30.719 --> 0:56:33.879
<v Speaker 2>are unbelievably talented, They've worked for it, and like as

0:56:33.920 --> 0:56:36.200
<v Speaker 2>their career goes on, they can produce their own projects,

0:56:36.239 --> 0:56:39.520
<v Speaker 2>they can have more creative say they deserve that, but

0:56:39.560 --> 0:56:41.880
<v Speaker 2>it would be dishonest and this is again not a

0:56:41.920 --> 0:56:44.640
<v Speaker 2>criticism of these women, but it would be dishonest to

0:56:44.680 --> 0:56:47.840
<v Speaker 2>say that there isn't an exchange for that. Like there

0:56:48.000 --> 0:56:51.399
<v Speaker 2>I can't think of an actor who's a woman over

0:56:51.440 --> 0:56:56.480
<v Speaker 2>fifty in main roles except maybe Francis McDormand, and even

0:56:56.520 --> 0:57:00.520
<v Speaker 2>those are like indies generally, who is the leading actor

0:57:00.600 --> 0:57:04.600
<v Speaker 2>in a movie and has aged completely naturally, It's just

0:57:04.600 --> 0:57:07.160
<v Speaker 2>not something that is permitted. And I think and that's

0:57:07.239 --> 0:57:09.400
<v Speaker 2>part of what the movie is commenting on. And it

0:57:09.440 --> 0:57:13.600
<v Speaker 2>feels like really important to Elizabeth's character of like she

0:57:13.719 --> 0:57:17.600
<v Speaker 2>has done everything quote unquote right, she has maintained her

0:57:17.640 --> 0:57:20.360
<v Speaker 2>body and whatever. We don't know, you know, because we

0:57:20.400 --> 0:57:22.479
<v Speaker 2>don't know a lot about Elizabeth, which I also feel

0:57:22.480 --> 0:57:25.000
<v Speaker 2>like is kind of intentional because she is just this

0:57:25.120 --> 0:57:29.480
<v Speaker 2>like Cipher. But yeah, like she's done everything right, but

0:57:29.560 --> 0:57:33.240
<v Speaker 2>it's not good enough, and so she gets drunk, similar

0:57:33.320 --> 0:57:35.920
<v Speaker 2>to like Jeff Goldblum in The Fly, she gets drunk,

0:57:36.320 --> 0:57:40.960
<v Speaker 2>makes a dumb decision and it ruins her life. You know.

0:57:41.480 --> 0:57:45.680
<v Speaker 2>That's a lot of body orr and especially with Demi

0:57:45.720 --> 0:57:48.960
<v Speaker 2>more specifically, I was thinking about and others have made

0:57:48.960 --> 0:57:51.720
<v Speaker 2>this observation as well, but how Demi Moore is like

0:57:51.720 --> 0:57:54.840
<v Speaker 2>such an interesting choice for this part because her age

0:57:55.320 --> 0:57:58.600
<v Speaker 2>has been the subject of discussion for decades, like when

0:57:58.600 --> 0:58:01.720
<v Speaker 2>she was dating Ashton that it was like she was

0:58:01.760 --> 0:58:06.000
<v Speaker 2>like the quote unquote cougarla. Her age has been a

0:58:06.520 --> 0:58:11.600
<v Speaker 2>subject of discussion since she was like forty and there

0:58:11.720 --> 0:58:13.640
<v Speaker 2>was you know, in the last couple of years, like

0:58:13.720 --> 0:58:17.000
<v Speaker 2>this sort of round of mockery that happens when any woman,

0:58:17.080 --> 0:58:20.240
<v Speaker 2>but particularly an older woman who's quote unquote, you know,

0:58:20.360 --> 0:58:22.120
<v Speaker 2>not what she used to be, and the way that

0:58:22.160 --> 0:58:24.800
<v Speaker 2>people talk about women who are aging and then try

0:58:24.840 --> 0:58:28.480
<v Speaker 2>to quote unquote fix the problem by getting an alteration,

0:58:28.640 --> 0:58:30.520
<v Speaker 2>and then they're mocked for it if it doesn't look

0:58:30.560 --> 0:58:34.400
<v Speaker 2>completely natural. And yeah, another thing I was watching is

0:58:34.400 --> 0:58:37.120
<v Speaker 2>there's a really good Mina let video. I'm a big

0:58:37.160 --> 0:58:40.080
<v Speaker 2>fan of hers. Yeah, her and my Ya I just

0:58:40.280 --> 0:58:43.840
<v Speaker 2>they're the best. But Mina was making the point that,

0:58:44.080 --> 0:58:47.080
<v Speaker 2>you know how there's a lot of you know, especially

0:58:47.160 --> 0:58:49.560
<v Speaker 2>with like really young girls right now, there's a lot

0:58:49.560 --> 0:58:54.600
<v Speaker 2>of fixation on like twelve step skincare routines for twelve

0:58:54.680 --> 0:58:57.120
<v Speaker 2>year olds. There's a beauty trend where you tape your

0:58:57.120 --> 0:59:01.400
<v Speaker 2>mouth shut at night to avoid wrinkling, and teenagers are

0:59:01.560 --> 0:59:05.760
<v Speaker 2>literally taping their mouths shut at night. It's wild, and

0:59:05.800 --> 0:59:09.840
<v Speaker 2>it's like, I think that this movie does effectively illustrate that,

0:59:09.920 --> 0:59:12.400
<v Speaker 2>like it might help you in the short term, but

0:59:12.440 --> 0:59:13.960
<v Speaker 2>it's not gonna save you, and it's not gonna make

0:59:13.960 --> 0:59:17.200
<v Speaker 2>you happy, because this whole movie is about how Elizabeth

0:59:17.240 --> 0:59:22.440
<v Speaker 2>Sparkle has been conditioned and grown to really, really really

0:59:22.480 --> 0:59:24.959
<v Speaker 2>hate herself and it's horrible to watch.

0:59:24.960 --> 0:59:29.560
<v Speaker 1>Right, which is a very interesting arc where, yes, she

0:59:29.640 --> 0:59:33.080
<v Speaker 1>has been conditioned to think that she is worthless because

0:59:33.080 --> 0:59:37.640
<v Speaker 1>she's aging. She doesn't have the same respect and adoration

0:59:37.800 --> 0:59:40.840
<v Speaker 1>she once had from fans. She is fired literally for

0:59:40.960 --> 0:59:43.920
<v Speaker 1>being quote unquote too old and is going to be

0:59:43.960 --> 0:59:48.640
<v Speaker 1>replaced by someone much younger, and obviously that takes a

0:59:48.760 --> 0:59:51.200
<v Speaker 1>toll on her, and it prompts her to do the

0:59:51.280 --> 0:59:55.120
<v Speaker 1>substance so that she can live as a younger version

0:59:55.160 --> 0:59:57.760
<v Speaker 1>of herself. At least part of the time. She sees

0:59:57.800 --> 1:00:02.960
<v Speaker 1>the stark contrast in how much more valued her younger

1:00:03.040 --> 1:00:07.840
<v Speaker 1>self is, and that takes an even greater toll on her,

1:00:08.200 --> 1:00:12.360
<v Speaker 1>to the point where when she's living as Elizabeth, she

1:00:13.240 --> 1:00:17.240
<v Speaker 1>doesn't live her life. She stays inside, She watches TV,

1:00:18.120 --> 1:00:23.200
<v Speaker 1>she engages in disordered eating. You know, she's binge eating.

1:00:23.840 --> 1:00:27.760
<v Speaker 1>You see her like waiting for and longing for the

1:00:27.880 --> 1:00:31.000
<v Speaker 1>moment that she can switch back over to being you know,

1:00:31.080 --> 1:00:34.360
<v Speaker 1>her younger self, to being Sue. But then that flips

1:00:34.360 --> 1:00:37.520
<v Speaker 1>at a certain point and it might partly be that

1:00:37.840 --> 1:00:40.840
<v Speaker 1>man who says, like, don't forget that you're still worthy,

1:00:40.960 --> 1:00:45.720
<v Speaker 1>that you still matter, and then she starts resenting Sue. Meanwhile,

1:00:45.960 --> 1:00:51.080
<v Speaker 1>Sue is resenting her older self, thinking that she's pathetic,

1:00:51.400 --> 1:00:54.480
<v Speaker 1>and it's like, but they're the same person.

1:00:54.680 --> 1:00:57.320
<v Speaker 2>Right, it'sny hard. I mean it's like a like even earlier,

1:00:57.360 --> 1:00:59.960
<v Speaker 2>it's like it's hard to remember that there really is

1:01:00.480 --> 1:01:03.120
<v Speaker 2>ten years ago us would be like women are always

1:01:03.160 --> 1:01:05.320
<v Speaker 2>turned against each other. Movie, it's like this is one

1:01:05.360 --> 1:01:09.640
<v Speaker 2>woman's battle with fifty years of being taught that you

1:01:09.680 --> 1:01:13.520
<v Speaker 2>should fucking hate yourself and that it's somehow your faults. Yeah,

1:01:13.520 --> 1:01:16.919
<v Speaker 2>and it's a tragedy, like it's really it's really sad

1:01:16.960 --> 1:01:20.080
<v Speaker 2>and that you know, she can't get herself to leave

1:01:20.200 --> 1:01:24.920
<v Speaker 2>until she's so far gone, and it's just it's really sad.

1:01:25.160 --> 1:01:28.720
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. I was curious what you thought about like the

1:01:28.720 --> 1:01:33.480
<v Speaker 1>moral of the story or like what the takeaway might be,

1:01:33.480 --> 1:01:38.400
<v Speaker 1>because I was like, is it something like don't try

1:01:38.440 --> 1:01:42.040
<v Speaker 1>to cheat changing because you'll turn into a monstral ali

1:01:42.120 --> 1:01:45.400
<v Speaker 1>is as Sue and explode into blood on Hollywood Boulevard.

1:01:45.840 --> 1:01:48.760
<v Speaker 1>And it's more complicated than that, but like for.

1:01:48.800 --> 1:01:51.000
<v Speaker 2>Me, it comes down to like, it's not offering a

1:01:51.040 --> 1:01:56.960
<v Speaker 2>clean moral or solution, but to me, it's like, weirdly again,

1:01:57.120 --> 1:01:59.760
<v Speaker 2>this is a very different movie from Black Swan, but

1:01:59.840 --> 1:02:04.560
<v Speaker 2>it feels like the pursuit of perfection and the pursuit

1:02:04.720 --> 1:02:09.640
<v Speaker 2>of a form of neglecting yourself and completely being reliant

1:02:09.680 --> 1:02:15.360
<v Speaker 2>on the approval of others is a relentless and destructive force,

1:02:15.960 --> 1:02:19.240
<v Speaker 2>and that like is unavoidable to some extent. But it's like,

1:02:19.360 --> 1:02:22.600
<v Speaker 2>if everyone loves you and you hate yourself, it doesn't

1:02:22.600 --> 1:02:26.040
<v Speaker 2>make a difference. And that I think, in like the

1:02:26.160 --> 1:02:31.680
<v Speaker 2>case of Elizabeth, that the odds are stacked against you,

1:02:31.760 --> 1:02:34.360
<v Speaker 2>and that like giving a shit about yourself is hard

1:02:34.920 --> 1:02:37.840
<v Speaker 2>in a world where the older you get, the less

1:02:37.880 --> 1:02:38.800
<v Speaker 2>others will care.

1:02:39.240 --> 1:02:44.680
<v Speaker 1>Right, you can't even blame people for having internalized agism

1:02:45.000 --> 1:02:52.280
<v Speaker 1>when society all around you conditions you to devalue yourself

1:02:52.360 --> 1:02:54.800
<v Speaker 1>and that you are not as worthy as you were

1:02:54.840 --> 1:02:55.880
<v Speaker 1>when you were younger.

1:02:56.120 --> 1:02:59.640
<v Speaker 2>So it yeah, it's broad, but it's like it's supposed

1:02:59.640 --> 1:03:01.480
<v Speaker 2>to be. I mean, it's so funny because like we

1:03:01.480 --> 1:03:04.160
<v Speaker 2>were talking about, there's all of these things that we

1:03:04.200 --> 1:03:07.160
<v Speaker 2>have repeatedly been like ugh, this again, but it just

1:03:07.240 --> 1:03:09.520
<v Speaker 2>works for me. In this movie because there has never

1:03:09.560 --> 1:03:12.560
<v Speaker 2>been a more patriarchy the guy than this Dennis Quaide character. Right,

1:03:13.000 --> 1:03:16.160
<v Speaker 2>Like he literally is like smile, smile, or my god,

1:03:16.200 --> 1:03:18.760
<v Speaker 2>I did laugh when he was like feathers, feathers, feathers.

1:03:18.840 --> 1:03:23.200
<v Speaker 2>You're like, what the fuck? I hate that he's evil,

1:03:23.240 --> 1:03:25.760
<v Speaker 2>but he did slay this, and like, I don't know,

1:03:25.880 --> 1:03:28.200
<v Speaker 2>two things need to be true for a second, but yeah,

1:03:28.240 --> 1:03:30.800
<v Speaker 2>I mean, he's a patriarchy the guy character. But I

1:03:30.800 --> 1:03:32.840
<v Speaker 2>guess it's like you'll either kind of like this or not.

1:03:33.000 --> 1:03:36.120
<v Speaker 2>But like all of the characters we see are kind

1:03:36.120 --> 1:03:40.440
<v Speaker 2>of broad types. We see different types of guys, you know,

1:03:40.640 --> 1:03:43.680
<v Speaker 2>none of them are narratively specific. We don't know very

1:03:43.800 --> 1:03:48.360
<v Speaker 2>much about Elizabeth. We don't know. Something I actually really appreciated,

1:03:48.400 --> 1:03:50.520
<v Speaker 2>and I'll go back to, like the murkier stuff that

1:03:50.600 --> 1:03:54.000
<v Speaker 2>I feel like is likely tied to Corey as a

1:03:54.040 --> 1:03:58.960
<v Speaker 2>person is that there is not a lot made of

1:03:59.520 --> 1:04:02.080
<v Speaker 2>I think that a lesser version of this movie would

1:04:02.120 --> 1:04:05.640
<v Speaker 2>be defined by regret for like the right things she

1:04:05.680 --> 1:04:08.800
<v Speaker 2>didn't do, like get married and have kids. That is

1:04:08.840 --> 1:04:11.720
<v Speaker 2>not a fixation of this movie. And I think a

1:04:11.800 --> 1:04:17.000
<v Speaker 2>lesser movie would have so mommified a cis woman that

1:04:17.480 --> 1:04:20.760
<v Speaker 2>they wouldn't be able to help themselves, but because this

1:04:20.840 --> 1:04:23.400
<v Speaker 2>is a battle with herself, Like the most important and

1:04:23.560 --> 1:04:27.440
<v Speaker 2>defining thing in Elizabeth's life was her career, which is

1:04:27.480 --> 1:04:31.080
<v Speaker 2>also a toxic thing when your career is conditioned to

1:04:31.360 --> 1:04:33.840
<v Speaker 2>dispose of you when you had a certain age. You know.

1:04:34.040 --> 1:04:36.520
<v Speaker 2>Other things that we criticize all the time that this

1:04:36.560 --> 1:04:40.600
<v Speaker 2>movie does is Elizabeth doesn't have any friends. She doesn't

1:04:40.640 --> 1:04:43.440
<v Speaker 2>have friends or a support system. But if that changes,

1:04:43.480 --> 1:04:45.560
<v Speaker 2>it's a different movie. And again it's like, I feel

1:04:45.560 --> 1:04:49.880
<v Speaker 2>like this movie is just showing how she feels versus

1:04:50.360 --> 1:04:53.560
<v Speaker 2>what the world really is, because everyone, like the men

1:04:53.600 --> 1:04:57.440
<v Speaker 2>in this movie are awful, and men can be that awful,

1:04:58.080 --> 1:05:01.360
<v Speaker 2>but there is like the fish eye lens, like it's

1:05:01.400 --> 1:05:05.200
<v Speaker 2>like a heightened version of that awful and being in

1:05:05.280 --> 1:05:08.880
<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth's position would likely be lonely. It probably wouldn't be

1:05:09.080 --> 1:05:11.880
<v Speaker 2>that lonely, but it's all like turned up and it

1:05:12.000 --> 1:05:14.360
<v Speaker 2>just kind of I don't know, like I even though

1:05:14.400 --> 1:05:16.360
<v Speaker 2>this movies doing a lot of things that I've criticized

1:05:16.360 --> 1:05:19.080
<v Speaker 2>a million times, it just makes sense in this world

1:05:19.160 --> 1:05:19.480
<v Speaker 2>to me.

1:05:19.960 --> 1:05:23.479
<v Speaker 1>Because it is a very heightened reality, even though it's

1:05:24.040 --> 1:05:29.080
<v Speaker 1>reflective of patriarchy and agism and different things that very

1:05:29.160 --> 1:05:33.640
<v Speaker 1>much exist systemically in the world. This is still a

1:05:33.720 --> 1:05:38.440
<v Speaker 1>very like heightened story. Of course, if Elizabeth did have friends,

1:05:38.960 --> 1:05:41.480
<v Speaker 1>she probably wouldn't have sought out the substance because they

1:05:41.480 --> 1:05:45.120
<v Speaker 1>would just like get together for like brunches and wine nights,

1:05:45.480 --> 1:05:48.800
<v Speaker 1>and they could have been like ha ha, aging is

1:05:49.280 --> 1:05:51.880
<v Speaker 1>it's hard, but we're getting through it, you know, Like

1:05:51.960 --> 1:05:54.840
<v Speaker 1>they would have had each other to like bounce off

1:05:54.880 --> 1:05:58.520
<v Speaker 1>of and support each other and like validate each other

1:05:58.680 --> 1:05:59.880
<v Speaker 1>and value each other.

1:06:00.240 --> 1:06:03.200
<v Speaker 2>But she lacks that supports us, and it's like it's sad.

1:06:03.400 --> 1:06:05.840
<v Speaker 2>And even though it's like that is not again, it's

1:06:05.880 --> 1:06:08.920
<v Speaker 2>like Elizabeth Sparkle is not a feminist icon, but that

1:06:08.960 --> 1:06:11.760
<v Speaker 2>doesn't make her a bad person or a bad character, right,

1:06:11.800 --> 1:06:14.360
<v Speaker 2>It's like she's very much a product of her environment.

1:06:15.960 --> 1:06:18.600
<v Speaker 2>There are moments where it's like, I mean, I guess again,

1:06:18.640 --> 1:06:22.920
<v Speaker 2>I've seen moments in her character characterized by other critics

1:06:22.920 --> 1:06:26.480
<v Speaker 2>as like you pity her, But I don't really pity

1:06:26.760 --> 1:06:28.680
<v Speaker 2>her because there's like a part of me that really

1:06:28.880 --> 1:06:32.240
<v Speaker 2>connects with her where it's just a heightened version. And

1:06:32.600 --> 1:06:34.600
<v Speaker 2>this is why I'm sort of like when I was

1:06:34.720 --> 1:06:37.400
<v Speaker 2>like exploring, oh, sort of a wide age range of

1:06:37.480 --> 1:06:41.320
<v Speaker 2>critics that I feel like most women, even women over thirty,

1:06:42.080 --> 1:06:45.240
<v Speaker 2>seem to be like no, I understand how that feels,

1:06:45.880 --> 1:06:49.240
<v Speaker 2>and the feeling that like you're no longer young enough

1:06:49.320 --> 1:06:53.520
<v Speaker 2>to start something or be viewed as valued, or you know,

1:06:53.640 --> 1:06:56.720
<v Speaker 2>the whole shedding that I remember, like the first time

1:06:56.760 --> 1:06:59.000
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't the youngest person in a writer's room and

1:06:59.040 --> 1:07:02.160
<v Speaker 2>it like weirdly me where I was like, I'm cooked,

1:07:02.280 --> 1:07:04.960
<v Speaker 2>I'm fucked. You're just like because you're not like the

1:07:05.120 --> 1:07:09.120
<v Speaker 2>cool young girl, and like there's a younger girl and

1:07:09.160 --> 1:07:12.520
<v Speaker 2>the answer is talk to her. She probably needs to

1:07:12.600 --> 1:07:14.480
<v Speaker 2>have an ally in this room. And then I come

1:07:14.520 --> 1:07:17.120
<v Speaker 2>friends and it's fine, but like that is a complicated,

1:07:17.160 --> 1:07:20.800
<v Speaker 2>weird set of emotions to to navigate and it's okay

1:07:20.800 --> 1:07:22.400
<v Speaker 2>that she's fucking off.

1:07:22.480 --> 1:07:26.160
<v Speaker 1>I don't know right, I mean again, I found myself

1:07:26.320 --> 1:07:32.760
<v Speaker 1>very much connecting to Elizabeth and sometimes to Sue, but

1:07:32.960 --> 1:07:38.720
<v Speaker 1>mostly Elizabeth, where you know, I'm pushing forty and I'm

1:07:38.760 --> 1:07:44.080
<v Speaker 1>always like, oh, why didn't me, as younger person stretch more?

1:07:44.120 --> 1:07:47.400
<v Speaker 1>Because now I'm so inflexible and I can't touch my

1:07:47.480 --> 1:07:50.240
<v Speaker 1>toes and I'm so stiff all the time, and did it?

1:07:50.280 --> 1:07:52.720
<v Speaker 1>And why didn't my younger self do this or this

1:07:52.880 --> 1:07:57.280
<v Speaker 1>or that? And I just like find myself resenting my

1:07:57.960 --> 1:08:01.560
<v Speaker 1>younger self as I get old, and so I relate

1:08:01.760 --> 1:08:06.000
<v Speaker 1>to Elizabeth's resentment of Sue. But also I'm just like, well,

1:08:06.040 --> 1:08:09.280
<v Speaker 1>I could start stretching now, and then that's what I'm

1:08:09.320 --> 1:08:10.960
<v Speaker 1>trying to do anyway.

1:08:11.680 --> 1:08:13.840
<v Speaker 2>Right, there's yeah, because there's I think I'm like I

1:08:13.880 --> 1:08:16.240
<v Speaker 2>was struggling in the first watch of this, but then yeah,

1:08:16.240 --> 1:08:19.240
<v Speaker 2>as it becomes clearer that like Sue is a part

1:08:19.479 --> 1:08:23.720
<v Speaker 2>of Elizabeth, the memories think like you, you've reformed me.

1:08:23.760 --> 1:08:26.080
<v Speaker 2>I need to watch it for a fourth time. But

1:08:26.160 --> 1:08:28.040
<v Speaker 2>that like they are a part of each other. So

1:08:28.120 --> 1:08:30.439
<v Speaker 2>it's it doesn't We haven't been led to believe that

1:08:30.479 --> 1:08:36.320
<v Speaker 2>Elizabeth has a history of being violently hateful of younger women.

1:08:36.400 --> 1:08:38.400
<v Speaker 2>We don't know much about her, but I feel like

1:08:38.479 --> 1:08:40.880
<v Speaker 2>we it would be indicated in the way she's treated

1:08:40.880 --> 1:08:43.720
<v Speaker 2>by Dennis Quaid. She's treated by Dennis Quaid as like

1:08:44.000 --> 1:08:48.639
<v Speaker 2>a subservient person, like appliable again, which like ties into

1:08:48.680 --> 1:08:51.280
<v Speaker 2>the whole characteristic of like she does what she's told,

1:08:51.600 --> 1:08:53.639
<v Speaker 2>she works out, she does the thing with her face,

1:08:53.680 --> 1:08:56.040
<v Speaker 2>like she does everything she's supposed to do, and then

1:08:56.120 --> 1:08:59.120
<v Speaker 2>she becomes literally a kind of like girl joker at

1:08:59.160 --> 1:09:03.040
<v Speaker 2>the end, like when it's not enough, she joker fies fine,

1:09:03.600 --> 1:09:06.280
<v Speaker 2>but it's like the reason that she's taking out violence

1:09:06.280 --> 1:09:09.960
<v Speaker 2>on Sue is because Sue is her and I don't know,

1:09:10.040 --> 1:09:12.280
<v Speaker 2>I guess a point that I guess couldn't really be

1:09:12.320 --> 1:09:14.599
<v Speaker 2>made by the movie because these characters only meet once

1:09:14.760 --> 1:09:18.519
<v Speaker 2>and try to kill each other. But it does seem

1:09:18.560 --> 1:09:22.640
<v Speaker 2>like it's at least hinted at that, like Sue is

1:09:22.880 --> 1:09:26.799
<v Speaker 2>valued more, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she feels

1:09:26.920 --> 1:09:30.679
<v Speaker 2>more comfortable about it. There's moments of that where stuff

1:09:30.720 --> 1:09:34.639
<v Speaker 2>like the chicken belly button moment, or like there's moments

1:09:34.640 --> 1:09:37.360
<v Speaker 2>where Sue feels genuinely ill at ease. I think the

1:09:37.400 --> 1:09:39.760
<v Speaker 2>move the part of the movie that makes me most uncomfortable,

1:09:39.880 --> 1:09:42.240
<v Speaker 2>Like the shrimp scene is brutal, but the scene at

1:09:42.280 --> 1:09:45.040
<v Speaker 2>the end where Sue it just felt like a bad

1:09:45.479 --> 1:09:48.479
<v Speaker 2>like again a bad dream, or like the feeling of

1:09:48.479 --> 1:09:52.000
<v Speaker 2>being too drunk in public where everything like her teeth

1:09:52.000 --> 1:09:54.200
<v Speaker 2>are falling out and she's like completely freaking out. But

1:09:54.240 --> 1:09:55.920
<v Speaker 2>she's like I just need to get out of this

1:09:56.000 --> 1:09:59.679
<v Speaker 2>building with everyone thinking I'm normal or yeah, like whatever,

1:10:00.040 --> 1:10:02.559
<v Speaker 2>smoking too much weed or like whatever it was like,

1:10:02.920 --> 1:10:05.320
<v Speaker 2>and just feeling like you are. You are the most

1:10:05.320 --> 1:10:07.960
<v Speaker 2>fucked up person that's ever existed, but you just need

1:10:08.240 --> 1:10:10.800
<v Speaker 2>this weird random man you don't know to think that

1:10:10.880 --> 1:10:16.800
<v Speaker 2>you're normal. I just like, really that really hit for me. Yeah, yeah, I.

1:10:16.760 --> 1:10:19.160
<v Speaker 1>Want to go back to talking about the men in

1:10:19.200 --> 1:10:23.120
<v Speaker 1>this movie while fainest of me, but while we're on Sue,

1:10:23.840 --> 1:10:25.920
<v Speaker 1>something that you very much noticed when you're watching this

1:10:25.960 --> 1:10:29.760
<v Speaker 1>movie is all of the like lingering shots of a

1:10:29.800 --> 1:10:33.560
<v Speaker 1>woman's butt or breasts or just like you know, disembodied

1:10:33.640 --> 1:10:36.120
<v Speaker 1>body parts. That again another thing that we tend to

1:10:36.160 --> 1:10:42.280
<v Speaker 1>criticize because that is like generally male gaze cinematography. But

1:10:42.400 --> 1:10:44.320
<v Speaker 1>the way we see it in this movie, or like

1:10:44.360 --> 1:10:48.760
<v Speaker 1>the way it's framed, or I feel like the implications

1:10:48.800 --> 1:10:51.479
<v Speaker 1>it has is quite different than what we're used to

1:10:51.520 --> 1:10:55.200
<v Speaker 1>seeing when we see this type of imagery because it's

1:10:55.240 --> 1:11:00.800
<v Speaker 1>almost exclusively at the beginning of Sue's arc. We see

1:11:00.840 --> 1:11:04.200
<v Speaker 1>her and she's new, and she's young, and she's shiny,

1:11:04.280 --> 1:11:07.519
<v Speaker 1>and she's oozing sex appeal. There's like a part where

1:11:07.560 --> 1:11:10.920
<v Speaker 1>she cracks open a can of diet coke and drinks

1:11:10.960 --> 1:11:14.240
<v Speaker 1>it and it's shot like a commercial. It's like the

1:11:14.280 --> 1:11:18.879
<v Speaker 1>way that like marketing will manipulate people with like sexy

1:11:18.920 --> 1:11:21.559
<v Speaker 1>imagery to trick you into buying stuff because it's and

1:11:21.600 --> 1:11:25.080
<v Speaker 1>it's all like fake and false. And I think the

1:11:25.120 --> 1:11:28.400
<v Speaker 1>idea is just like, yeah, we're seeing all this, like

1:11:28.600 --> 1:11:32.880
<v Speaker 1>you know, disembodied body parts and butts and titties and everything,

1:11:33.000 --> 1:11:39.640
<v Speaker 1>but it's in the context of this woman who is

1:11:39.800 --> 1:11:45.719
<v Speaker 1>valued specifically for those things because she's young and has

1:11:45.520 --> 1:11:51.200
<v Speaker 1>this taut round buttocks again a lah Shrek too. That

1:11:52.120 --> 1:11:56.880
<v Speaker 1>it feels different than the like male gay cinematography from

1:11:56.920 --> 1:12:01.560
<v Speaker 1>a movie like whatever Transformers. When we're aggling Megan Fox's

1:12:01.600 --> 1:12:05.720
<v Speaker 1>body as she's like bending over a car and like

1:12:05.800 --> 1:12:09.280
<v Speaker 1>basically having sex with the car. It's not the context

1:12:09.360 --> 1:12:11.760
<v Speaker 1>isn't the same, the implications aren't the same. I think

1:12:11.800 --> 1:12:16.000
<v Speaker 1>you could still maybe criticize the cinematography of this movie, but.

1:12:16.160 --> 1:12:20.000
<v Speaker 2>I understand why this would be up for like why

1:12:20.040 --> 1:12:24.040
<v Speaker 2>this would cross a line of like satire into exploitation. Yeah,

1:12:24.080 --> 1:12:26.599
<v Speaker 2>like I can see that. I don't it doesn't bug

1:12:26.640 --> 1:12:29.120
<v Speaker 2>me as much. I think if I liked the movie less.

1:12:29.240 --> 1:12:30.880
<v Speaker 2>I would lean more into that.

1:12:31.120 --> 1:12:35.360
<v Speaker 1>Read right, but they're saying something with this type of

1:12:35.400 --> 1:12:39.679
<v Speaker 1>cinematography in this movie, what exactly are they saying. I'm

1:12:39.760 --> 1:12:41.240
<v Speaker 1>still working on it.

1:12:41.960 --> 1:12:44.439
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I think cinematography is one of the few things

1:12:44.479 --> 1:12:47.960
<v Speaker 2>that I could be swayed into being like, Nah, that

1:12:48.080 --> 1:12:48.960
<v Speaker 2>wasn't great.

1:12:48.960 --> 1:12:52.160
<v Speaker 1>That wasn't necessary. Yeah, I feel like it's trying to

1:12:52.200 --> 1:12:57.120
<v Speaker 1>emphasize yeah, like this is what society is conditioning people

1:12:57.200 --> 1:13:02.000
<v Speaker 1>to value about young women and their bodies and their sexuality.

1:13:02.680 --> 1:13:05.880
<v Speaker 1>But that cinematography goes away as the movie goes on.

1:13:06.720 --> 1:13:10.160
<v Speaker 1>I'm still processing it. Listeners are curious what you think

1:13:10.200 --> 1:13:12.000
<v Speaker 1>about it, but I was just like.

1:13:12.040 --> 1:13:14.800
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I could definitely see different intern I also felt

1:13:14.880 --> 1:13:18.479
<v Speaker 2>like so much of this it feels like corally doing

1:13:18.520 --> 1:13:22.479
<v Speaker 2>sort of like an inside joke of like because it's

1:13:22.520 --> 1:13:26.479
<v Speaker 2>so over the top, because the movie is funny, just

1:13:26.640 --> 1:13:28.240
<v Speaker 2>not for a lot of the reasons that the men

1:13:28.240 --> 1:13:30.280
<v Speaker 2>in the room thought it was funny, which is why

1:13:30.360 --> 1:13:35.160
<v Speaker 2>I have sought out really no men's opinions on this movie.

1:13:35.320 --> 1:13:38.040
<v Speaker 2>But it does feel like a sort of like a

1:13:38.080 --> 1:13:41.880
<v Speaker 2>winky kind of reference to all the ways we've seen

1:13:41.960 --> 1:13:45.160
<v Speaker 2>women portrayed over the years. I can see how that

1:13:45.720 --> 1:13:48.360
<v Speaker 2>still might not work for some people, but it didn't

1:13:48.360 --> 1:13:51.280
<v Speaker 2>bother me. I did think it was interesting that she

1:13:51.400 --> 1:13:54.680
<v Speaker 2>says in the production short that she found this is

1:13:54.960 --> 1:13:59.599
<v Speaker 2>a male cinematographer, Benjamin Kracken, pretty cool name. She saw

1:13:59.640 --> 1:14:02.679
<v Speaker 2>his work. He was the cinematographer for Promising Young Women.

1:14:03.120 --> 1:14:06.000
<v Speaker 2>Oh yes, yes, a movie that has aged weirdly. I

1:14:06.080 --> 1:14:08.680
<v Speaker 2>kind of want to redo that episode. But yeah, it

1:14:08.720 --> 1:14:10.880
<v Speaker 2>wasn't my favorite element of the movie by a long shot.

1:14:10.920 --> 1:14:12.840
<v Speaker 2>But m hmm. I mean I liked more of the

1:14:12.960 --> 1:14:17.360
<v Speaker 2>like experimental fun, like the helmet shots and like the

1:14:17.400 --> 1:14:19.160
<v Speaker 2>bloodshot with the metal music.

1:14:19.320 --> 1:14:24.639
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, again, technically this movie is great. There's awesome editing, awesome. Yeah,

1:14:24.720 --> 1:14:28.080
<v Speaker 1>I'm just like, I think there's probably like strong intentionality

1:14:28.160 --> 1:14:32.160
<v Speaker 1>behind these like male gayzy type shots. But what exactly

1:14:32.200 --> 1:14:35.840
<v Speaker 1>is it? Going back to the men, Yeah, we do

1:14:35.920 --> 1:14:41.400
<v Speaker 1>have a very like patriarchy the guy type in Harvey

1:14:41.479 --> 1:14:43.600
<v Speaker 1>in a way that feels appropriate because again, this is

1:14:43.600 --> 1:14:44.599
<v Speaker 1>so heightened, it.

1:14:44.600 --> 1:14:46.120
<v Speaker 2>Just feels intentional enough.

1:14:46.280 --> 1:14:49.000
<v Speaker 1>It feels very intenseing, right, But then you have other

1:14:49.240 --> 1:14:51.599
<v Speaker 1>guys that are like because in many movies we see

1:14:51.600 --> 1:14:54.479
<v Speaker 1>like just the one patriarchy. The guy in this movie,

1:14:54.479 --> 1:14:56.560
<v Speaker 1>it's like patriarchy.

1:14:56.640 --> 1:15:01.760
<v Speaker 2>All the guys like there's something and they're like different facets, right,

1:15:01.840 --> 1:15:04.920
<v Speaker 2>Like for example, the Fred guy, the person she knew

1:15:04.920 --> 1:15:07.080
<v Speaker 2>from high school, he says something like.

1:15:07.320 --> 1:15:09.479
<v Speaker 1>Well, now that we're reconnected, we can go out for

1:15:09.520 --> 1:15:12.280
<v Speaker 1>a drink. Meanwhile, they spent one second talking to each other,

1:15:12.280 --> 1:15:16.439
<v Speaker 1>but he thinks that like they've reconnected and that he's

1:15:16.600 --> 1:15:19.639
<v Speaker 1>entitled to her time now. And you know, he seems

1:15:19.680 --> 1:15:21.280
<v Speaker 1>like a quote unquote nice guy.

1:15:21.680 --> 1:15:22.920
<v Speaker 2>But he's what does that mean?

1:15:23.160 --> 1:15:25.360
<v Speaker 1>But he's not treating her like a person. He's like

1:15:25.400 --> 1:15:29.439
<v Speaker 1>putting her on a pedestal. He is like not acting

1:15:29.479 --> 1:15:31.839
<v Speaker 1>as though she's an actual, like equal to him.

1:15:31.960 --> 1:15:35.360
<v Speaker 2>And Fred really quickly. Again, that's like it felt like

1:15:35.400 --> 1:15:38.439
<v Speaker 2>another like layered decision to have her, because she set

1:15:38.520 --> 1:15:41.160
<v Speaker 2>the boundary in the moment she's like okay, you know,

1:15:41.280 --> 1:15:43.839
<v Speaker 2>and like she's like give me your card but intentionally

1:15:43.920 --> 1:15:46.800
<v Speaker 2>doesn't share her contact info. Yeah, but again, I just

1:15:46.880 --> 1:15:49.719
<v Speaker 2>thought it was like a really kind of like sad

1:15:49.800 --> 1:15:53.120
<v Speaker 2>but understandable moment where it's like the way that she's

1:15:53.120 --> 1:15:56.719
<v Speaker 2>been conditioned to feel is like being objectified, is being seen.

1:15:57.920 --> 1:16:01.360
<v Speaker 2>So it's almost like, well, it almost like this movie

1:16:01.400 --> 1:16:03.240
<v Speaker 2>auberates on the assumption that there could not be a

1:16:03.240 --> 1:16:05.160
<v Speaker 2>man who would respect her and see her for her

1:16:05.520 --> 1:16:08.200
<v Speaker 2>who she is, which is quite sad, and that she's

1:16:08.240 --> 1:16:10.879
<v Speaker 2>like I just need to be like perceived by somebody,

1:16:10.920 --> 1:16:13.000
<v Speaker 2>and that's why she reaches out to him versus like

1:16:13.600 --> 1:16:15.920
<v Speaker 2>this guy's gonna be great for my life. It's just

1:16:15.920 --> 1:16:17.880
<v Speaker 2>like I just need to be seen for like fucking

1:16:18.040 --> 1:16:19.519
<v Speaker 2>three hours. Right.

1:16:19.640 --> 1:16:21.800
<v Speaker 1>I didn't read it as like, oh, this is going

1:16:21.840 --> 1:16:24.960
<v Speaker 1>to be a potential romantic partner for her. It was

1:16:25.040 --> 1:16:28.639
<v Speaker 1>just that she needed some kind of validation from someone

1:16:28.680 --> 1:16:31.599
<v Speaker 1>who wouldn't be outwardly cruel to her.

1:16:32.120 --> 1:16:35.240
<v Speaker 2>And that's like, you know, sometimes you need that.

1:16:36.200 --> 1:16:37.000
<v Speaker 1>Look, I've done it.

1:16:37.080 --> 1:16:40.000
<v Speaker 2>Sometimes you just need to be viewed for a couple

1:16:40.080 --> 1:16:42.960
<v Speaker 2>hours and they're awful and then you don't talk to

1:16:43.040 --> 1:16:43.559
<v Speaker 2>him anymore.

1:16:43.960 --> 1:16:49.679
<v Speaker 1>Hmm. So there's his version of patriarchy. There are, of course,

1:16:49.720 --> 1:16:55.160
<v Speaker 1>like the casting agent guys who are only viewing women

1:16:55.360 --> 1:17:03.040
<v Speaker 1>as like objects and bodies and not actual people. There's

1:17:03.160 --> 1:17:08.439
<v Speaker 1>the neighbor guy, Oliver, who is furious when he thinks

1:17:08.479 --> 1:17:12.120
<v Speaker 1>that Elizabeth is making noise because she's old and growth,

1:17:12.479 --> 1:17:15.599
<v Speaker 1>but when it's a beautiful young woman who will.

1:17:15.400 --> 1:17:18.160
<v Speaker 2>Making noise this cool sexy thing that they're all the

1:17:18.320 --> 1:17:23.760
<v Speaker 2>kids are. Yeah, that's like they're all a unique flavor

1:17:23.960 --> 1:17:27.360
<v Speaker 2>of growth that is recognizable. I guess like if this

1:17:27.560 --> 1:17:30.120
<v Speaker 2>was a different movie, and this isn't even a criticism

1:17:30.160 --> 1:17:32.080
<v Speaker 2>of this movie, I do think it would would have

1:17:32.120 --> 1:17:37.680
<v Speaker 2>been interesting to see women who are complicit in reinforcing

1:17:37.720 --> 1:17:40.800
<v Speaker 2>these standards. That's something that I actually do think that

1:17:40.880 --> 1:17:44.120
<v Speaker 2>promising young woman does relatively well. Was like with the

1:17:44.240 --> 1:17:47.120
<v Speaker 2>Dean character being like, yeah, I don't care because that

1:17:47.120 --> 1:17:50.559
<v Speaker 2>puts my job at risk if I, you know, take

1:17:50.680 --> 1:17:54.280
<v Speaker 2>your rape allegation seriously. And you know, I think there's

1:17:54.280 --> 1:17:57.080
<v Speaker 2>certainly room for that, but I don't know, it's just

1:17:57.080 --> 1:18:00.479
<v Speaker 2>hard to argue with how effective that Like, it's this

1:18:00.520 --> 1:18:03.200
<v Speaker 2>is not a movie for nuance. I don't know.

1:18:04.560 --> 1:18:06.599
<v Speaker 1>Yeah. The last thing I wanted to do was just

1:18:06.640 --> 1:18:12.040
<v Speaker 1>like share a couple more quotes from Corley Farja. I

1:18:12.040 --> 1:18:14.559
<v Speaker 1>hope I'm saying her name right, We're saying it different.

1:18:14.560 --> 1:18:16.320
<v Speaker 2>I don't know, I don't know, the.

1:18:16.320 --> 1:18:19.720
<v Speaker 1>Friends, we don't know, we don't know French names. Just

1:18:19.760 --> 1:18:22.400
<v Speaker 1>to share a little bit more about kind of like

1:18:22.560 --> 1:18:24.640
<v Speaker 1>where she was and how she was feeling when she

1:18:24.720 --> 1:18:28.839
<v Speaker 1>was writing this movie. So that same off screen Central

1:18:28.960 --> 1:18:32.639
<v Speaker 1>interview that I quoted earlier, when the interviewer asked her

1:18:32.760 --> 1:18:37.400
<v Speaker 1>what inspired her to start writing the screenplay, Coraley said, quote,

1:18:38.400 --> 1:18:40.840
<v Speaker 1>really what I had felt my whole life about how

1:18:41.080 --> 1:18:43.519
<v Speaker 1>I had lived within my body, how I had been

1:18:43.600 --> 1:18:46.439
<v Speaker 1>led to constantly judge it in a negative way, how

1:18:46.479 --> 1:18:48.840
<v Speaker 1>I had been led to torture it in many ways to

1:18:49.000 --> 1:18:52.240
<v Speaker 1>try and make it look perfect with the beauty standards

1:18:52.280 --> 1:18:56.280
<v Speaker 1>that were presented to me as being the only valuable option.

1:18:56.560 --> 1:18:59.000
<v Speaker 1>And I think at every age I kind of fought

1:18:59.000 --> 1:19:01.280
<v Speaker 1>with something that I didn't like or that I felt

1:19:01.320 --> 1:19:04.720
<v Speaker 1>embarrassed with, until recently, when I passed my forties and

1:19:05.000 --> 1:19:08.240
<v Speaker 1>was going towards my fifties, where I started really to

1:19:08.880 --> 1:19:12.160
<v Speaker 1>have those violent thoughts like now it's over for me,

1:19:12.600 --> 1:19:15.439
<v Speaker 1>Like I'm not gonna be interesting to anyone, I'm not

1:19:15.520 --> 1:19:19.000
<v Speaker 1>gonna have an existence again. Like it was like so

1:19:19.200 --> 1:19:21.960
<v Speaker 1>violent that I decided it was the right time for

1:19:22.000 --> 1:19:24.800
<v Speaker 1>me to do something about all this, which I think

1:19:24.920 --> 1:19:27.640
<v Speaker 1>has strongly shaped my relationship to the world, and I

1:19:27.680 --> 1:19:29.960
<v Speaker 1>believe it's the same for many women. And I wanted

1:19:30.000 --> 1:19:34.000
<v Speaker 1>to really free myself from this or at least let

1:19:34.000 --> 1:19:37.560
<v Speaker 1>it out, like throw it out somewhere in an undelicate,

1:19:37.760 --> 1:19:42.320
<v Speaker 1>no control, not nice, not gentle way, which I think

1:19:42.600 --> 1:19:45.439
<v Speaker 1>is the kind of opposite of where we are kind

1:19:45.439 --> 1:19:48.960
<v Speaker 1>of asked to be unquote. So yeah, this is just

1:19:49.040 --> 1:19:53.920
<v Speaker 1>like just how she has felt about herself informing this story.

1:19:54.840 --> 1:19:58.000
<v Speaker 1>Why she went with Body Horror is basically an act

1:19:58.000 --> 1:20:00.240
<v Speaker 1>of defiance of like, oh, you want me to have

1:20:00.280 --> 1:20:02.839
<v Speaker 1>this perfect body and you want me to be delicate

1:20:02.920 --> 1:20:04.680
<v Speaker 1>and gentle and da da da, Well no, I'm going

1:20:04.760 --> 1:20:08.160
<v Speaker 1>to tell this story in a very violent way because

1:20:08.160 --> 1:20:12.280
<v Speaker 1>that's the opposite of what society expects of me as

1:20:12.320 --> 1:20:15.320
<v Speaker 1>a woman. So I just wanted to share that extra

1:20:15.400 --> 1:20:19.559
<v Speaker 1>context because I think, you know, the criticisms people might

1:20:19.600 --> 1:20:23.479
<v Speaker 1>have about this movie fair, But I do appreciate, as

1:20:23.479 --> 1:20:27.600
<v Speaker 1>we've said, that this is a different version of like

1:20:28.160 --> 1:20:32.120
<v Speaker 1>quote unquote hag woman as horror, but coming from a

1:20:32.200 --> 1:20:39.519
<v Speaker 1>very different perspective, coming from like experiential context, and it

1:20:39.720 --> 1:20:42.720
<v Speaker 1>made for a really enjoyable movie for me the end.

1:20:43.280 --> 1:20:46.400
<v Speaker 2>I agree. I agree, Yeah, I think that like a

1:20:46.439 --> 1:20:49.960
<v Speaker 2>lot of the reads of the movie, and again, it's like,

1:20:49.960 --> 1:20:51.360
<v Speaker 2>if you don't like you don't like it. Also, not

1:20:51.400 --> 1:20:55.840
<v Speaker 2>everybody likes body horror. But most of the questions that

1:20:55.920 --> 1:20:59.840
<v Speaker 2>I had about where the movie is coming from, I mean,

1:21:00.200 --> 1:21:04.519
<v Speaker 2>have been pretty cogently answered by the writer director, So

1:21:04.560 --> 1:21:07.360
<v Speaker 2>I don't really know where you could ask. And if

1:21:07.360 --> 1:21:09.000
<v Speaker 2>you don't like you, you'll like it. If you don't

1:21:09.080 --> 1:21:10.720
<v Speaker 2>like it, you're wrong. And if you do like it

1:21:10.720 --> 1:21:13.800
<v Speaker 2>for the wrong reasons, I really hate you. I like,

1:21:14.360 --> 1:21:16.920
<v Speaker 2>really left with a real bone to pick with some

1:21:17.000 --> 1:21:19.680
<v Speaker 2>of those fucking neck beers in there, who you know,

1:21:23.240 --> 1:21:24.240
<v Speaker 2>don't piss me off.

1:21:25.120 --> 1:21:29.200
<v Speaker 1>Is there anything else you wanted to talk about recording

1:21:29.240 --> 1:21:30.120
<v Speaker 1>the substance?

1:21:30.840 --> 1:21:34.080
<v Speaker 2>No, I mean, I think it's worth mentioning. Although I

1:21:34.160 --> 1:21:36.879
<v Speaker 2>know that if you've seen this movie, it's fairly obvious

1:21:37.479 --> 1:21:39.760
<v Speaker 2>that while I think this movie has a lot to

1:21:39.800 --> 1:21:45.880
<v Speaker 2>say about the standards that are applied to women specifically,

1:21:46.160 --> 1:21:49.000
<v Speaker 2>this also appears to be like a pretty somewhat personal

1:21:49.040 --> 1:21:53.920
<v Speaker 2>story from Coralie Farsha, and therefore it is not a

1:21:53.960 --> 1:21:59.120
<v Speaker 2>particularly inclusive story. This is, while there are you know,

1:21:59.240 --> 1:22:03.400
<v Speaker 2>over arch expectations of women, this is a story specifically

1:22:03.439 --> 1:22:07.479
<v Speaker 2>about an aging white CIS woman, and everyone's version of

1:22:07.479 --> 1:22:09.719
<v Speaker 2>this experience is going to be different. If you're listening

1:22:09.760 --> 1:22:11.880
<v Speaker 2>to this show, you already know that, but it feels

1:22:11.920 --> 1:22:14.840
<v Speaker 2>worth mentioning. But again, that's not even really a criticism

1:22:15.040 --> 1:22:18.200
<v Speaker 2>of the movie, because one movie can't do everything, and

1:22:18.320 --> 1:22:21.120
<v Speaker 2>I really appreciate that, like Coraley is pulling from her

1:22:21.240 --> 1:22:26.200
<v Speaker 2>own anxieties about aging to make this. I feel like

1:22:26.240 --> 1:22:30.360
<v Speaker 2>it's what makes the movie really good, because she also

1:22:30.439 --> 1:22:32.799
<v Speaker 2>clearly has a good sense of humor about how fucked

1:22:32.880 --> 1:22:36.799
<v Speaker 2>up this is, which is like just very refreshing and cool.

1:22:37.160 --> 1:22:38.479
<v Speaker 2>But yeah, I think that was my last thing.

1:22:39.280 --> 1:22:42.000
<v Speaker 1>The last thing I wanted to touch on real quick

1:22:42.160 --> 1:22:44.400
<v Speaker 1>was a lot of people have pointed out the parallels

1:22:44.400 --> 1:22:47.559
<v Speaker 1>between the substance and Death Becomes Her.

1:22:48.040 --> 1:22:50.720
<v Speaker 2>Yeah I had not connected that, but totally.

1:22:50.760 --> 1:22:53.160
<v Speaker 1>Probably other movies too, but I think that was the

1:22:53.160 --> 1:22:55.479
<v Speaker 1>one that people were drawing a lot of comparisons to.

1:22:56.040 --> 1:22:59.479
<v Speaker 1>And I find it interesting that the movies have a

1:22:59.479 --> 1:23:02.160
<v Speaker 1>similar pres but they take on a very different tone

1:23:02.320 --> 1:23:08.320
<v Speaker 1>where Death Becomes Her is like silly can't be fun vibes.

1:23:08.920 --> 1:23:10.920
<v Speaker 1>I had a similar thought, and I want to see

1:23:10.920 --> 1:23:15.200
<v Speaker 1>if this trend continues. But when I watched Anora, I

1:23:15.320 --> 1:23:19.160
<v Speaker 1>was like, oh, this is this is similar in premise

1:23:19.280 --> 1:23:21.720
<v Speaker 1>to for example, Pretty Woman.

1:23:21.800 --> 1:23:24.400
<v Speaker 2>Right, which is like, that's very intentional.

1:23:24.320 --> 1:23:27.360
<v Speaker 1>Right, yes, but it's like you know, from thirty years prior.

1:23:27.439 --> 1:23:31.160
<v Speaker 1>And it also takes on a very different tone. And

1:23:31.200 --> 1:23:32.960
<v Speaker 1>there was a third movie that I had this thought

1:23:33.000 --> 1:23:35.639
<v Speaker 1>about that it came out within the past year or two,

1:23:36.160 --> 1:23:38.439
<v Speaker 1>has a very similar premise to a movie from the

1:23:38.479 --> 1:23:41.479
<v Speaker 1>eighties or nineties, but takes on a very different tone,

1:23:41.520 --> 1:23:45.160
<v Speaker 1>like a darker, more cynical tone. I can't remember what

1:23:45.200 --> 1:23:47.559
<v Speaker 1>the third movie I'm thinking of is, but I'm just

1:23:47.560 --> 1:23:51.839
<v Speaker 1>curious to see if this trend continues where a familiar

1:23:51.840 --> 1:23:58.639
<v Speaker 1>premise from the past gets kind of recontextualized and retoned almost, And.

1:23:58.600 --> 1:24:00.680
<v Speaker 2>I'm like, I wonder how that's going. It really like

1:24:00.720 --> 1:24:05.360
<v Speaker 2>depends on who's doing it, because I've only seen it once.

1:24:05.479 --> 1:24:09.000
<v Speaker 2>But I liked Anora. I didn't love Anora, but I

1:24:09.040 --> 1:24:11.639
<v Speaker 2>do like that how it's clearly in conversation with that

1:24:11.920 --> 1:24:15.080
<v Speaker 2>movie and like a way that is still you know,

1:24:15.160 --> 1:24:18.160
<v Speaker 2>not super punishing to watch. Yeah, I guess I didn't

1:24:18.160 --> 1:24:20.639
<v Speaker 2>even think with Death Becomes Her. I've watched that movie

1:24:20.800 --> 1:24:23.920
<v Speaker 2>somewhat recently. I watched it around Halloween because it just

1:24:23.960 --> 1:24:24.800
<v Speaker 2>feels right.

1:24:26.160 --> 1:24:27.000
<v Speaker 1>But for sure.

1:24:27.479 --> 1:24:30.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I watched that movie around Halloween, and I do.

1:24:30.439 --> 1:24:34.080
<v Speaker 2>I feel like what is also like implied in Death

1:24:34.080 --> 1:24:37.120
<v Speaker 2>Becomes Her is that the central conflict is also sort

1:24:37.160 --> 1:24:40.400
<v Speaker 2>of around a man, whereas like around the women's relationship

1:24:40.400 --> 1:24:42.799
<v Speaker 2>to each other, but there's also a central conflict around

1:24:42.840 --> 1:24:46.240
<v Speaker 2>like who gets the piece of shit guy? And I

1:24:46.320 --> 1:24:51.200
<v Speaker 2>appreciate that the substance has no interest in that, and

1:24:51.240 --> 1:24:55.280
<v Speaker 2>there's just no uh nary a man in sight for

1:24:55.439 --> 1:24:56.680
<v Speaker 2>longer than a minute or so.

1:24:57.320 --> 1:24:57.639
<v Speaker 1>True.

1:24:57.840 --> 1:25:01.080
<v Speaker 2>So yeah, no, that's that's super interesting. I also it's

1:25:01.120 --> 1:25:04.799
<v Speaker 2>like two banger movies in completely different ways.

1:25:05.160 --> 1:25:10.439
<v Speaker 1>Totally. Yes, just wanted to point that out. Yeah, does

1:25:10.520 --> 1:25:13.519
<v Speaker 1>the substance pass the Bechdel test?

1:25:13.880 --> 1:25:16.280
<v Speaker 2>Yeah it does, it does.

1:25:17.040 --> 1:25:20.880
<v Speaker 1>A lot of the movie is Elizabeth by herself or

1:25:21.000 --> 1:25:24.320
<v Speaker 1>Sue by herself. If they're interacting with someone, it is

1:25:24.360 --> 1:25:25.439
<v Speaker 1>often a man.

1:25:26.000 --> 1:25:29.320
<v Speaker 2>Or like talking to the other one well unconscious, which

1:25:29.360 --> 1:25:33.080
<v Speaker 2>unfortunately cannot pass. But I thought that was a funny

1:25:33.120 --> 1:25:35.280
<v Speaker 2>almost pass where it's like, well, there are two women

1:25:35.320 --> 1:25:39.759
<v Speaker 2>in the room and the communication happening is important. However

1:25:39.840 --> 1:25:42.639
<v Speaker 2>one is basically dead right now.

1:25:42.479 --> 1:25:48.679
<v Speaker 1>Responding Yeah, the scene where they're fighting each other toward

1:25:48.760 --> 1:25:51.559
<v Speaker 1>the end does pass the Bechdel test. I don't even

1:25:51.560 --> 1:25:53.400
<v Speaker 1>think they really say much to each other, but I

1:25:53.439 --> 1:25:57.040
<v Speaker 1>think them, you know, beating the shit out of each other,

1:25:58.120 --> 1:26:00.000
<v Speaker 1>that's interaction, that's communication.

1:26:00.200 --> 1:26:02.519
<v Speaker 2>Like, does it pass the Bechtels has if it's two

1:26:03.280 --> 1:26:06.080
<v Speaker 2>halves of the same woman talking to.

1:26:06.040 --> 1:26:07.200
<v Speaker 1>A yes it does.

1:26:07.479 --> 1:26:11.400
<v Speaker 2>And spiritually this movie passes big time. But I agree,

1:26:11.400 --> 1:26:14.920
<v Speaker 2>I think that it's like it's so often Elizabeth's talking

1:26:14.920 --> 1:26:19.960
<v Speaker 2>to her self or making herself smaller to talk to

1:26:20.200 --> 1:26:26.360
<v Speaker 2>a man, which spiritually passes. But it's not as clean

1:26:26.360 --> 1:26:29.639
<v Speaker 2>a pass as you'd expect. But again, flawed metric. We've

1:26:29.640 --> 1:26:31.200
<v Speaker 2>said it a million times. We'll say it again.

1:26:31.479 --> 1:26:35.519
<v Speaker 1>You know it's not a flawed metric. Tell me, Caitlin, Well,

1:26:35.560 --> 1:26:39.680
<v Speaker 1>it's the Bechtel cast nipple scale. It's perfectly metric that

1:26:40.920 --> 1:26:44.280
<v Speaker 1>deserves no criticism whatsoever. No, and we won't be hearing

1:26:44.320 --> 1:26:47.320
<v Speaker 1>any of course. It's the scale where we rate the

1:26:47.360 --> 1:26:51.800
<v Speaker 1>movie zero two five nipples based on examining it through

1:26:51.880 --> 1:26:55.800
<v Speaker 1>an intersectional feminist lens who. Okay, I would say that

1:26:56.040 --> 1:26:58.800
<v Speaker 1>even though this movie does a lot of the things

1:26:58.800 --> 1:27:02.320
<v Speaker 1>that we have criticized on the podcast in the past,

1:27:03.280 --> 1:27:05.599
<v Speaker 1>and if those things put you off from the movie

1:27:05.880 --> 1:27:08.960
<v Speaker 1>like fair. I understand that totally.

1:27:08.760 --> 1:27:10.960
<v Speaker 2>It's not a movie for everyone, and that's.

1:27:10.800 --> 1:27:15.400
<v Speaker 1>Fine, and that's fine, but context is very important to consider,

1:27:15.520 --> 1:27:20.519
<v Speaker 1>and in this case, the context and perspective narratively is

1:27:20.920 --> 1:27:26.240
<v Speaker 1>a woman interrogating her own experience with aging and how

1:27:26.400 --> 1:27:32.400
<v Speaker 1>society has made her feel about aging, and the commentary

1:27:32.439 --> 1:27:36.599
<v Speaker 1>on how society values or does not value women based

1:27:36.680 --> 1:27:39.400
<v Speaker 1>on their age. I feel like that is generally effective

1:27:39.520 --> 1:27:44.519
<v Speaker 1>commentary that the movie presents. The movie is very funny,

1:27:44.840 --> 1:27:47.559
<v Speaker 1>and I'm not even a big body horror person, but like,

1:27:47.600 --> 1:27:50.600
<v Speaker 1>I was on board so happy.

1:27:50.280 --> 1:27:52.080
<v Speaker 2>When you loved this movie. I was like, that means

1:27:52.080 --> 1:27:54.720
<v Speaker 2>it's like good good, Because you're not always super on

1:27:54.760 --> 1:27:57.040
<v Speaker 2>board with body war art. That's a I don't like

1:27:57.080 --> 1:27:57.439
<v Speaker 2>it when.

1:27:57.360 --> 1:27:59.559
<v Speaker 1>It's just there for the sake of being there, But

1:27:59.600 --> 1:28:03.799
<v Speaker 1>if it's there with a function and a purpose, I'm

1:28:04.200 --> 1:28:06.800
<v Speaker 1>fine with it. And it was to me serving a

1:28:06.880 --> 1:28:11.160
<v Speaker 1>very effective function in this story. Yeah, as we mentioned earlier,

1:28:11.200 --> 1:28:13.439
<v Speaker 1>I think there are aspects of this movie, especially much

1:28:13.439 --> 1:28:16.080
<v Speaker 1>of what happens in the third act, that could be

1:28:16.600 --> 1:28:18.400
<v Speaker 1>read as being quite ablest.

1:28:19.280 --> 1:28:22.200
<v Speaker 2>And also if that is like a perspective that any

1:28:22.240 --> 1:28:24.040
<v Speaker 2>of our listeners have we would we would love to

1:28:24.040 --> 1:28:24.800
<v Speaker 2>hear more.

1:28:25.320 --> 1:28:27.200
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I wasn't able to find a whole lot of

1:28:27.320 --> 1:28:30.320
<v Speaker 1>writing about that specifically. I saw like a few tweets

1:28:30.360 --> 1:28:34.080
<v Speaker 1>to that effect, but not being yeah similar, So yeah,

1:28:34.240 --> 1:28:37.479
<v Speaker 1>I'd like to hear other perspectives on it. But I

1:28:37.479 --> 1:28:39.680
<v Speaker 1>think you could also maybe argue that there's a lot

1:28:39.680 --> 1:28:42.200
<v Speaker 1>of like gratuitous nudity in the movie. But I also

1:28:42.280 --> 1:28:44.519
<v Speaker 1>chalked that up to the director being French, and I

1:28:44.560 --> 1:28:48.240
<v Speaker 1>was like, French people just aren't as pearl clutchy about

1:28:48.320 --> 1:28:51.120
<v Speaker 1>nudity as my like prudish American brain.

1:28:51.400 --> 1:28:53.640
<v Speaker 2>So and I did feel I mean, maybe this is

1:28:53.680 --> 1:28:55.840
<v Speaker 2>me again making an excuse for a movie I like,

1:28:55.920 --> 1:29:00.000
<v Speaker 2>which has happened before we've done it. But I agree

1:29:00.080 --> 1:29:02.760
<v Speaker 2>that there are moments of gratuitous nudity. I feel like

1:29:02.840 --> 1:29:08.080
<v Speaker 2>at least the intention was to comment on how gratuitous

1:29:08.120 --> 1:29:11.240
<v Speaker 2>nudity is presented, even though you I think you also

1:29:11.240 --> 1:29:13.599
<v Speaker 2>could argue that, like, aren't they just also doing it?

1:29:13.960 --> 1:29:17.519
<v Speaker 2>And the answer is maybe. But I like this movie so.

1:29:16.920 --> 1:29:20.320
<v Speaker 1>So whatever, so I don't care. There were so many

1:29:20.320 --> 1:29:22.599
<v Speaker 1>parts though, where I was like, can't they just drape

1:29:22.640 --> 1:29:26.320
<v Speaker 1>a blanket over their other version of themselves. Isn't it

1:29:26.360 --> 1:29:31.519
<v Speaker 1>really cold and it's comfortable? They're all wild my bathroom floor.

1:29:32.080 --> 1:29:34.840
<v Speaker 2>It is literally it awakens so many I have like

1:29:34.920 --> 1:29:37.160
<v Speaker 2>such a fear of I mean, it's because it's so common,

1:29:37.240 --> 1:29:39.400
<v Speaker 2>like slipping and falling in the back and like hitting

1:29:39.400 --> 1:29:42.280
<v Speaker 2>your head on tile. Yeah, which is part of why

1:29:42.320 --> 1:29:44.679
<v Speaker 2>that scene and oh my god, that scene in Titan

1:29:44.720 --> 1:29:48.160
<v Speaker 2>where she breaks her nose, oh, the like. But dem

1:29:48.479 --> 1:29:52.080
<v Speaker 2>and Margaret are like, like, I know that that's probably

1:29:52.080 --> 1:29:54.679
<v Speaker 2>just an expression of like the self hatred shared between

1:29:54.680 --> 1:29:57.760
<v Speaker 2>the two of them. But I know it's like tuck

1:29:57.800 --> 1:30:00.559
<v Speaker 2>her in, like at least get like a little like hey,

1:30:00.640 --> 1:30:05.240
<v Speaker 2>bail or something like I don't know something, Hey yeah,

1:30:05.320 --> 1:30:06.679
<v Speaker 2>exactly hay bail.

1:30:07.680 --> 1:30:10.719
<v Speaker 1>I was gonna say, like silk sheets and.

1:30:11.000 --> 1:30:14.840
<v Speaker 2>An air mattress, like it's not asking the world no.

1:30:16.040 --> 1:30:18.760
<v Speaker 1>But anyway, all this to say, I think I'll give

1:30:18.800 --> 1:30:23.599
<v Speaker 1>the movie on the Caitlin's Rompometer scale ten out of ten.

1:30:24.160 --> 1:30:27.599
<v Speaker 1>On the Nipple scale, I'm somewhere between like a three

1:30:27.600 --> 1:30:31.240
<v Speaker 1>and a half and a four. I think I very

1:30:31.320 --> 1:30:34.960
<v Speaker 1>much enjoy the movie. It is not free from criticism,

1:30:35.080 --> 1:30:38.799
<v Speaker 1>I think again, various criticisms of this movie are very valid,

1:30:39.479 --> 1:30:44.080
<v Speaker 1>But again, the commentary that it does provide I think

1:30:44.240 --> 1:30:49.880
<v Speaker 1>is both effective and delivered in a really fun, enjoyable way. Yeah,

1:30:49.960 --> 1:30:55.120
<v Speaker 1>and like the delivery method of commentary can often determine

1:30:55.120 --> 1:30:59.920
<v Speaker 1>how effective it is. And when you're using comedy or

1:31:00.080 --> 1:31:03.640
<v Speaker 1>satire or body horror, whatever the kind of tone and

1:31:03.720 --> 1:31:06.960
<v Speaker 1>genre as a sort of delivery method for commentary, I

1:31:06.960 --> 1:31:09.040
<v Speaker 1>think the movie does a really good job with that.

1:31:09.320 --> 1:31:14.000
<v Speaker 1>So I'll say three point seventy five and I'll distribute

1:31:14.040 --> 1:31:20.839
<v Speaker 1>my nipples among to me more Margaret Qualy, Corale Fargah

1:31:21.360 --> 1:31:25.280
<v Speaker 1>and the Shrimps.

1:31:27.439 --> 1:31:31.480
<v Speaker 2>I'm gonna go for on this, which might be recency bias,

1:31:31.560 --> 1:31:33.160
<v Speaker 2>and if so, so be it.

1:31:33.439 --> 1:31:35.320
<v Speaker 1>That's life baby, That's life baby.

1:31:35.360 --> 1:31:39.680
<v Speaker 2>But I really appreciate this movie. I feel I've and

1:31:39.760 --> 1:31:42.000
<v Speaker 2>again this is just my opinion. I feel like this

1:31:42.120 --> 1:31:46.960
<v Speaker 2>movie while I agree like there are many valid criticisms

1:31:46.960 --> 1:31:50.000
<v Speaker 2>that I think we will continue to hear more about

1:31:50.040 --> 1:31:53.800
<v Speaker 2>as time goes on. Yeah, I appreciate, Like I just

1:31:54.000 --> 1:31:57.880
<v Speaker 2>especially after listening to interviews with Coral Farghat that like,

1:31:58.479 --> 1:32:03.280
<v Speaker 2>the intent feels very clear that even if it is

1:32:03.320 --> 1:32:06.559
<v Speaker 2>not a message, that is for everybody, and that there.

1:32:06.800 --> 1:32:09.400
<v Speaker 2>You know, should be less white movies that are able

1:32:09.439 --> 1:32:12.920
<v Speaker 2>to tackle topics like these, and there are, But I

1:32:13.400 --> 1:32:16.040
<v Speaker 2>really I just love how it is like both a

1:32:16.080 --> 1:32:21.160
<v Speaker 2>broad nightmare and a weirdly personal story that clearly so

1:32:21.320 --> 1:32:25.040
<v Speaker 2>many people have connected to. And I would also really

1:32:25.080 --> 1:32:28.200
<v Speaker 2>be curious to listeners of your in theater experience because

1:32:28.439 --> 1:32:30.600
<v Speaker 2>I think that what we were talking about earlier in

1:32:30.600 --> 1:32:33.160
<v Speaker 2>the episode of like we were all laughing but we

1:32:33.160 --> 1:32:35.639
<v Speaker 2>weren't all laughing at the same thing, is such an

1:32:35.760 --> 1:32:39.760
<v Speaker 2>interesting thing to interrogate totally. But yeah, I think this

1:32:39.800 --> 1:32:42.400
<v Speaker 2>movie is fantastic. I love body horror, and I love

1:32:42.439 --> 1:32:46.559
<v Speaker 2>body horror that is very intentional and it's like saying something,

1:32:46.800 --> 1:32:52.080
<v Speaker 2>and the performances are amazing. I just think this movie

1:32:52.080 --> 1:32:54.720
<v Speaker 2>fucking rocks. Can't wait to see your next one, can't

1:32:54.720 --> 1:32:58.880
<v Speaker 2>wait to cover Revenge, And with that, I'm going to

1:32:58.880 --> 1:33:01.080
<v Speaker 2>give my nipplesyam and if to do me more when

1:33:01.120 --> 1:33:06.360
<v Speaker 2>a markeret quality, I'm gonna give one two Corley farshat

1:33:06.720 --> 1:33:12.520
<v Speaker 2>and I will give my final one too. Sorry, I'm

1:33:12.760 --> 1:33:15.479
<v Speaker 2>not giving it to the shrimp. There I said it.

1:33:15.920 --> 1:33:21.719
<v Speaker 1>Wow, I almost thought you were gonna say Shrek Shrek. There,

1:33:22.840 --> 1:33:25.800
<v Speaker 1>I guess I'll give my last nipple to Alissa Su

1:33:26.479 --> 1:33:28.280
<v Speaker 1>Wow monstro Elissa Su.

1:33:28.560 --> 1:33:31.920
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, rooting for her love. Huh. And with that, I

1:33:32.000 --> 1:33:36.920
<v Speaker 2>believe that we're sorry you didn't appreciate your experience with

1:33:36.960 --> 1:33:42.040
<v Speaker 2>The Buckle Cast. If you want to uh inject yourself

1:33:42.080 --> 1:33:45.479
<v Speaker 2>with the thing that makes you die, please do so. Now.

1:33:46.760 --> 1:33:48.360
<v Speaker 2>We're sorry you didn't enjoy.

1:33:49.200 --> 1:33:54.080
<v Speaker 1>Yes, but if you did enjoy your experience, you can

1:33:54.200 --> 1:33:57.519
<v Speaker 1>follow us. You can support us by subscribing to the

1:33:57.640 --> 1:34:03.679
<v Speaker 1>Matreon Patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where you get

1:34:03.720 --> 1:34:07.360
<v Speaker 1>two bonus episodes every month, plus access to the back

1:34:07.479 --> 1:34:10.600
<v Speaker 1>catalog of like somewhere around one hundred and seventy or

1:34:10.600 --> 1:34:12.600
<v Speaker 1>one hundred and eighty bonus episodes.

1:34:12.960 --> 1:34:16.799
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, so an absurd amount of content. Yeah, And as

1:34:16.840 --> 1:34:21.519
<v Speaker 2>always the best way to directly support this show. And

1:34:22.280 --> 1:34:26.960
<v Speaker 2>with that, let's slither to our shared star in the

1:34:26.960 --> 1:34:30.360
<v Speaker 2>Walk of Fame and turn in blue misted.

1:34:31.720 --> 1:34:38.400
<v Speaker 1>Let's do it, Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a

1:34:38.439 --> 1:34:42.560
<v Speaker 1>production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Dorante and Jamie loftis

1:34:42.640 --> 1:34:46.479
<v Speaker 1>produced by Sophie Lickterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme

1:34:46.560 --> 1:34:50.800
<v Speaker 1>song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski.

1:34:51.280 --> 1:34:54.600
<v Speaker 1>Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and

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<v Speaker 1>a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about

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<v Speaker 1>the podcast, please visit link Tree slash Bechtel Cast