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Speaker 1: On the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: The questions asked if movies have women and them, are

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Speaker 2: all their discussions just boyfriends and husbands, or do they

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Speaker 2: have individualism? The patriarchy z Eph and Beast start changing with.

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Speaker 1: The Bechdel Cast. Jamie, there is no you and me.

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Speaker 2: We are one who popped out of Who's bad? That's up?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Who's the matrix and who's the other self?

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Speaker 2: Depends on the day listeners, depends.

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Speaker 1: On sound off in the comments. Well, it's the Substance episode.

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Speaker 2: It is true. I'm very excited. Here we are the

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Speaker 2: movie that launched a thousand takes, and here's ours.

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Speaker 1: Here's I like it.

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Speaker 2: It's fun My propose intro is going to be ah

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Speaker 2: the French hmmm like the orson Ball's commercial member.

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Speaker 1: Oh no, I don't remember that.

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Speaker 2: Okay, well I swear sound off in the comments if

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Speaker 2: you remember that and thought it was funny. Anyways, Yes,

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Speaker 2: we are covering the Substance. This is the Bechdel Cast.

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Speaker 2: We are lining this up to come up right around

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Speaker 2: the Oscars.

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Speaker 1: H Yes, However, we are recording it in early February.

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Speaker 1: The episode will come out like a month later after

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Speaker 1: the Oscars. So we're not sure.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, so we don't know how they did. We don't

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Speaker 2: know how they did. We just know how we feel.

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Speaker 1: We know how we feel. But it is nominated for

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Speaker 1: Academy Awards for Best Picture, Best Director, Best Original Screenplay,

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Speaker 1: Best Actress for Demi Moore, and Best Makeup and Hairstyling.

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Speaker 2: So I'm thrilled about this. It all makes sense. I

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Speaker 2: am just like, I'm so happy that weird movies are

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Speaker 2: being nominated for Oscars in recent years. I feel like

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Speaker 2: you have your kind of typical I'm gonna just throw

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Speaker 2: a random person under the butt. I guess like most

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Speaker 2: people who for biopics to be perfectly honest, like, that's

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Speaker 2: an Oscar Baby performance if you do a good job

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Speaker 2: and you're of note and of especially if you look

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Speaker 2: a little weird and I mean a little weird or

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Speaker 2: just not conventionally attractive. But that is simply not what

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Speaker 2: Demi Moore is. I mean, it's what she's doing to

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Speaker 2: such an extreme that I feel like this is not

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Speaker 2: an Oscar bait. This is about as far from an

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Speaker 2: Oscar Baby performance as you could get, because this movie

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Speaker 2: could have been so bad. True, I feel like in

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Speaker 2: the wrong hands or really just like a male director.

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Speaker 2: This movie could have been like comically bad, and I

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Speaker 2: think bad for to me Moore's career. I'm glad that

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Speaker 2: that's not the way it went. Anyways, I love this movie.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, so, Jamie, what's your relationship with it? Did you

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Speaker 1: see it in theater?

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Speaker 2: Google the Bechdels test, Google the Bexxels test.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah, I forgot about that part of the show.

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Speaker 2: If you don't know what the Bechdel test is, you

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Speaker 2: have no business listening to our takes on the Substance,

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Speaker 2: Like fair, go back to second grade. Okay, I saw

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Speaker 2: The Substance in theaters twice. I rewatched it with a

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Speaker 2: Bechda lens, which is, I want to say, a very

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Speaker 2: different I guess it is a very different experience, but

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Speaker 2: not in a way that made me feel less enthusiastic

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Speaker 2: about the movie, I guess, But I was just like,

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Speaker 2: looking at different aspects of it and looking into the

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Speaker 2: production is really interesting. But yeah, I was thinking about

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Speaker 2: the first time I saw this movie in theaters was

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Speaker 2: the night it came out, because I really enjoyed Cora

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Speaker 2: Lee Farsia's first movie, Revenge, which is I think it's

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Speaker 2: a French language film, that came out I think in

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Speaker 2: twenty seventeen. That sounds right, And I watched it with

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Speaker 2: my friend Sarah when we were high on mushrooms in

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Speaker 2: a hotel room in Montreal. So we were like, let's

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Speaker 2: watch something French, and we watched Revenge and it is like,

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Speaker 2: it's a very different movie from the substance, And I

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Speaker 2: want to talk about how the ways I feel like

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Speaker 2: those movies are in conversation with each other, because Revenge is,

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Speaker 2: you know, the revenge genre I think is like very

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Speaker 2: fraught with being more interested in rape than revenge. That's

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Speaker 2: not an original observation, but Revenge is literally just I mean,

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Speaker 2: it's that is what the revenge is in response to.

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Speaker 2: But the movie is ninety nine point nine percent revenge.

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Speaker 1: Okay, sounds like something that we should cover for Revenge

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Speaker 1: bur on the Matreon.

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Speaker 2: We really should. Yeah, it's a good contribution to that genre.

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Speaker 2: And I feel like it's sort of saying something about

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Speaker 2: like external violence towards women and then this movie is

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Speaker 2: more like self inflicted violence. Anyways, I really enjoyed this movie.

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Speaker 2: The thing I wanted to say was the first time

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Speaker 2: I saw it was the night it came out, and

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Speaker 2: I know a lot of people who've seen this movie,

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Speaker 2: especially early. I think you did too, Like had the

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Speaker 2: experience of just like it was a wild theatrical experience

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Speaker 2: because no one knew what was going to happen. Everyone

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Speaker 2: was like, oh my god, like and there's lot of laughter, yeah,

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Speaker 2: because it's a funny movie. But I will say that

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Speaker 2: I went with my boyfriend now fiance, and my fiance

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Speaker 2: I did it all the time. Now yes he is, yes,

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Speaker 2: and as my wife in practiced if not yet, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he's always saying that is that he says.

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Speaker 1: That to you every day and I'm always like the

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Speaker 1: aggressive guy.

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Speaker 2: No, So we saw it together. The audience, I will say,

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Speaker 2: was more men than not. And there were fun aspects

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Speaker 2: of it, like the movie is so gross, which I

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Speaker 2: love because I am squeamish, but I love gross movies.

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Speaker 2: There was a guy, you know, I think, like a

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Speaker 2: stereotypically like masculine looking like muscular guy who got up

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Speaker 2: and left three different times but kept coming back. And

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Speaker 2: where he he left during the shrimp scene.

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Speaker 1: Truly one of the grossest scenes in the movie.

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Speaker 2: I think that was like a submovie. I was really

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Speaker 2: enjoyed because he like clearly I really wanted to finish

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Speaker 2: the movie, but the movie does not let up in

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Speaker 2: getting grosser, and he was just he was struggling. I

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Speaker 2: get it. But when we were talking about the movie afterwards,

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Speaker 2: I was trying to like articulate a feeling I was

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Speaker 2: having about, like I loved the movie. I get this.

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Speaker 2: I mean, it's like you, I don't know, everyone gets

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Speaker 2: this way about movies. It's maybe a little immature, but

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Speaker 2: sometimes I'm like I understood it and those guys did it.

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Speaker 2: But I did feel like there were moments that elicited

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Speaker 2: laughter in the movie that really felt bad and frustrating

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Speaker 2: to me, especially when it's I felt like this movie,

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Speaker 2: to me, you're like laughing almost with the characters because

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Speaker 2: you can somehow relate to even though this is not

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Speaker 2: something you would or could do to yourself. It feels

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Speaker 2: like a nightmare you would have about your sort of

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Speaker 2: worst intentions towards yourself. But I feel like there was

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Speaker 2: a portion of that audience that was laughing at her

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Speaker 2: and not with her. And I don't know, like I

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Speaker 2: can't describe quite how, but I do wonder if there's

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Speaker 2: listeners you.

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Speaker 1: Just know you know when someone's laughing for the wrong reason.

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Speaker 2: And you know when a guy says they liked the

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Speaker 2: substance for the wrong reason, you could just feel it.

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Speaker 2: And I was trying to articulate this to Grant and

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Speaker 2: like he mostly got it. But it's also like men

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Speaker 2: don't really need to contend with that feeling very much.

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Speaker 2: Because I love body horror, and I love body horror

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Speaker 2: movies made by women. This is no exception. But it

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Speaker 2: just felt like there were a lot of people who

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Speaker 2: left that movie and they're, like, I love that, but

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Speaker 2: they were laughing at her more often than empathizing with her,

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Speaker 2: and I don't necessarily I mean, I know you could argue, well,

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Speaker 2: that's the director's fault. I don't think so. I think

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Speaker 2: I think a lot of the negative takes about this

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Speaker 2: movie is people expecting too much of one movie. Like, sorry,

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Speaker 2: I'm already babbling. What was your experienceive seeing.

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Speaker 1: I too saw it in theaters twice early on. I

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Speaker 1: don't know if I saw it opening night. I truly

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Speaker 1: don't have a memory.

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Speaker 2: And an opening weekend at least.

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Speaker 1: Yes, we talked about it shortly after right the first

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Speaker 1: movie going experience with it was a raucous good time.

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Speaker 2: I mean it is really fun.

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Speaker 1: But I was also in a theater where I was like,

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Speaker 1: some of these people and some of these men, they're

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Speaker 1: not laughing for the right reasons. They're not laughing at

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Speaker 1: the right parts or you know. But I didn't let

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Speaker 1: that deter me from having a great time. I loved it.

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Speaker 2: Nor should it.

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Speaker 1: Nor should it? And then I saw it again, maybe

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Speaker 1: like a month later it was in theaters for It's

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Speaker 1: still kind of I was back in theaters.

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Speaker 2: Oh yeah, after the nominations.

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Speaker 1: So I saw it like a month or a month

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Speaker 1: and a half later. I dressed up as Elizabeth for Halloween.

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Speaker 1: I saw it a third time during a horror movie

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Speaker 1: marathon in October. So like, I've seen it a few

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Speaker 1: times now, and each time I've watched it, I've had

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Speaker 1: a slightly different viewing experience. I haven't had really different

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Speaker 1: feelings on it. I feel like my my takes and

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Speaker 1: thoughts are still processing, I will say, and I think

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Speaker 1: I'll maybe feel differently about this movie in a year

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Speaker 1: and five years.

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Speaker 2: Right, which is why we don't usually cover movies right

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Speaker 2: when they come up. But this movie is so begging

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Speaker 2: to be covered on this show that it's like, no, well,

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Speaker 2: we can recover it later if our feelings changed.

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Speaker 1: You know, not true. Yeah, give us five years. We

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Speaker 1: might hate our original take and we'll just redo it.

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Speaker 1: But yeah, I very much enjoyed this movie. It was probably,

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Speaker 1: if not my favorite movie of twenty twenty four, in

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Speaker 1: the top three. I had a great time, and I'm

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Speaker 1: excited to discuss me too.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I'm excited for you to see Revenge too. I'm

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Speaker 2: curious what you think.

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Speaker 1: Yeah, it's on my list. Let's just do a revenge

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Speaker 1: bur in, I don't know, March.

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Speaker 2: Whenever we feel like it. Really, that's the beauty. That's

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Speaker 2: our revenge, is our blatant disregard for months exactly.

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Speaker 1: Let's take a quick break and then we'll come back

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Speaker 1: for the recap.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, and we're back, all right.

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Speaker 1: Here is the recap of the substance.

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Speaker 2: Oh, I wonder if this is weirdly quick recap.

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Speaker 1: It is actually kind of long because it's a long

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Speaker 1: same movie. It's two hours and twenty minutes. That is

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Speaker 1: my one complain about the movie. If it's a bit

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Speaker 1: longer than I think it needs to be.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I'm like, but I wouldn't. I don't know what

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Speaker 2: I would cut necessarily anyways, I.

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Speaker 1: Wouldn't cut scenes, like whole scenes or anything like that.

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Speaker 1: I would just like shave some of the stuff down.

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Speaker 2: We see like repetitive.

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Speaker 1: Information that I think we could just like trim a bit.

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Speaker 2: Sure.

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Speaker 1: Anyway, we open on an egg that is injected with

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Speaker 1: a Dare I say Shrek colored liquid?

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Speaker 2: It is Shrekian and I, which leads to the question,

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Speaker 2: has Coraley Fresh I've seen Shrek and.

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Speaker 1: On I bet she has.

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Speaker 2: I wonder, I wonder if she. I don't know. I've

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Speaker 2: watched a lot of interviews with her, and maybe it's

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Speaker 2: just because I find French people hard to read.

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Speaker 1: They're mysterious, Yes they are.

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Speaker 2: And I mean listen, Julia do Carno and Courley Fresh

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Speaker 2: like two of my absolute favorites. I'm just like, would

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Speaker 2: they watch Shrek? I don't know. We gotta go to

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Speaker 2: a Q and A and really disrespect the artist by

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Speaker 2: acting an unrelated.

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Speaker 1: Have you seen Shrek? I think we should just have

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Speaker 1: Coraley on the podcast and ask her there. She's so cool. Yeah, well,

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Speaker 1: she's our biggest fan probably, so it shouldn't be that hard.

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Speaker 1: And I read in an interview with her that she

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Speaker 1: grew up on a diet of American movies. So I

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Speaker 1: think it is very possible that she has seen Shrek.

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Speaker 2: Oh my god, I hope she saw it in theaters anyway, Sorry.

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Speaker 1: Anyways, So there is this lime green subs the titular

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Speaker 1: substance that is injected into the yolk of an egg,

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Speaker 1: and then the yolk multiplies and becomes two yolks. I

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Speaker 1: said that word really weird.

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Speaker 2: Yolks. You hit the L.

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Speaker 1: I mean there is an L in it. Yeah, anyway,

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Speaker 1: I thought you did great, so thank you so much.

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Speaker 1: Then we see a star on the Hollywood Walk of

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Speaker 1: Fame in Hollywood, California. Ever heard of it? It's being

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Speaker 1: made for Elizabeth Sparkle. She is a popular star at

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Speaker 1: the beginning of her career, but as the years pass,

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Speaker 1: we see excitement about her dwindle. Then we finally meet

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Speaker 1: Elizabeth Sparkle on screen. She's, of course, played by Demi Moore.

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Speaker 1: She currently hosts a kind of like nineties style fitness

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Speaker 1: slash aerobics TV show.

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Speaker 2: It reminds me a lot of like as someone who

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Speaker 2: did the Jane Fonda workout Old day of Lockdown. I

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Speaker 2: think that was yeah, like the eighties, nineties kind of vibe.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So the show's called Sparkle Your Life. And after

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Speaker 1: the show, she goes into the restroom where she overhears

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Speaker 1: her head of the network boss Harvey, played by Dennis Quaid,

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Speaker 1: who I.

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Speaker 2: Was just like, what are we doing? And also like

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Speaker 2: why does he do a good job? Is it because

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Speaker 2: he's so familiar with being diabolical? But I didn't want

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Speaker 2: to say. I found out in an interview. I don't

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Speaker 2: know if you saw this, that the part was originally

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Speaker 2: going to be for Ray Liota Lioda and then he died,

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Speaker 2: so that I was like, all right, as long as

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Speaker 2: he wasn't the first pick.

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Speaker 1: I guess. Yeah. But Dennis Quaid, despite him being a

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Speaker 1: person with a very bad politics, does a really great

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Speaker 1: job as this character.

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Speaker 2: He's a really great despicable piece of shit, right, and

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Speaker 2: that's just his performance in Reagan, Am I right, lady?

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Speaker 1: Anyway, So he's a very loud, obnoxious misogyny and Elizabeth

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Speaker 1: overhears him saying that he is canceling Elizabeth's show and

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Speaker 1: replacing her with someone younger. Elizabeth is obviously very upset

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Speaker 1: about this. There's also the scene where Harvey's eating shrimp

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Speaker 1: very grotesquely.

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Speaker 2: And like the fish eye lens that they use it.

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Speaker 2: It's so yucky. I love it. I also really liked

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Speaker 2: I don't know, just like watching it again and looking

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Speaker 2: at the way that he talks to her, like, well,

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Speaker 2: you knew this was going to happen. I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I just I appreciated like that choice of like, well,

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Speaker 2: I'm not you know, first of all, he doesn't care

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Speaker 2: how she feels, but also I think he does believe

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Speaker 2: that she assumed this was going.

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Speaker 1: To happen to her, right, because he says something like

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Speaker 1: after fifty, it just stops, meaning like, once you turn

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Speaker 1: fifty years old as a woman.

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Speaker 2: My ability to give a shit about you.

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Speaker 1: Because she's like, what stops and he cannot articulate at

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Speaker 1: all what he means it.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it's great.

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Speaker 1: Yeah. So she learns that she's getting fired. On her

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Speaker 1: way home, Elizabeth gets into a car accident, so she

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Speaker 1: goes to the doctor, and there a young physician examines

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Speaker 1: her and says that she's a good candidate for what

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Speaker 1: we wonder. Turns out he had slipped something in her pocket,

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Speaker 1: a flash drive labeled the substance.

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Speaker 2: And he says it changed.

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Speaker 1: No, Yeah, there's a little note. Then a man named

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Speaker 1: Fred like jump Scare approaches her on the sidewalk. This

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Speaker 1: is someone she knew from high school, and he's like,

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Speaker 1: oh my gosh, you're the most beautiful woman in the

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Speaker 1: world and you're still beautiful. We should go out for

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Speaker 1: a drink sometime.

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Speaker 2: And she's like, this does capture a jump Scare person

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Speaker 2: from high school? Feeling very well.

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Speaker 1: Yes, but anyway, She's like, m yeah, no, thank you,

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Speaker 1: and then she goes home to see what's on the

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Speaker 1: flash drive. It's basically a commercial for the substance, something

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Speaker 1: that will make you younger and more beautiful and more perfect.

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Speaker 2: But there's just one rule. You must respect the balance.

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Speaker 1: Respect the balance.

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Speaker 2: Seven days mean more, seven days mark requality.

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Speaker 1: It's like the Ring seven days.

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Speaker 2: I thought that too. I was like opening scene of

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Speaker 2: scary gross movie that it warns you that you'll die

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Speaker 2: in seven days if you fuck around.

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Speaker 1: So the way this works is the substance takes your

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Speaker 1: DNA and creates a new and quote unquote better version

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Speaker 1: of yourself where you live life as your original self,

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Speaker 1: which they call the matrix for one week, and then

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Speaker 1: you swap with your younger other self and live as

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Speaker 1: them for a week, and you keep going back and

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Speaker 1: forth week after week. But the important thing to remember

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Speaker 1: is that you are not separate people. There is no

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Speaker 1: her and me. You are one I thought.

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Speaker 2: Of as interesting, and this isn't a criticism because this

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Speaker 2: movie doesn't work unless you operate on kind of like

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Speaker 2: symbolic dream logic. But that they could not like even

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Speaker 2: though they are technically one person, they don't share memories

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Speaker 2: like they have to piece together what the other did.

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Speaker 1: So I to this day am not clear on that exactly,

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Speaker 1: because the movie, it is easy for the audience to

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Speaker 1: forget that they are the same person, partly because we

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Speaker 1: see them as two different people on screen, like two

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Speaker 1: different actors. They're visibly different, but also they routinely forget

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Speaker 1: that they are the same person because the substance hotline

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Speaker 1: guy has to always remind them there's no her and you.

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Speaker 2: That little meddling sicko right at substance HQ.

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Speaker 1: So I think there's definitely a read where they don't

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Speaker 1: share memories and they have to like figure out what

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Speaker 1: the other one has been up to. But I think

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Speaker 1: there's also a read where they are sharing memories, and

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Speaker 1: it's just that they're resenting each other's choices so much

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Speaker 1: that it just seems like they're Oh yeah, that was

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Speaker 1: my read of it.

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Speaker 2: At least that's the true I guess I viewed it

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Speaker 2: as like, because these are two different parts of Elizabeth,

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Speaker 2: that she is so out of touch with herself and

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Speaker 2: so uncomfortable in herself that like she can't get these

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Speaker 2: like two parts of her to communicate because of that disagreement.

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Speaker 2: Either way, it explains away this problem, right right. I

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Speaker 2: don't think even think it's a problem. It feels intentional.

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Speaker 1: Mm hmm.

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Speaker 2: Yeah.

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Speaker 1: I mean, I agree that they're so out of sync,

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Speaker 1: but that's why it seems like they don't share memories, sure,

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Speaker 1: but that they actually do. I don't know. Again, you

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Speaker 1: could read it I think both.

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Speaker 2: Ways, but I think both both definitely work. I had

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Speaker 2: like all of these alternate pitches of like what if

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Speaker 2: the substance was like this in the version where the

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Speaker 2: substance is like a very gentle, sweet story of love

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Speaker 2: and friendship, they would be like writing each other these

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Speaker 2: beautiful letters for the other to read, like a letter

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Speaker 2: to my younger sheff bye, And then she'd be like

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Speaker 2: it would be kind of like I haven't seen My

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Speaker 2: Old Ass, but it feels like that.

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Speaker 1: Oh sure, I did see My Old Ass. It is

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Speaker 1: kind of like that. Although they're on screen together interacting

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Speaker 1: throughout that movie, right, but if they're writing letters to

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Speaker 1: each other, that's kind of like the movie The lake House.

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Speaker 2: I loved the movie The lake House. I did. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: it's like mother daughter lake House or like younger self,

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Speaker 2: Older Self lake House. Obviously this is not that movie.

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Speaker 2: I also was like, I had a theory that I

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Speaker 2: posted to letterbox dot com. Give me a follow over there,

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Speaker 2: Jamie alert is my username.

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Speaker 1: And while you're at it, give me a follow please.

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Speaker 2: Hello, So my theory after watching this of this for

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Speaker 2: the third time, Okay, I'm just going to read it please.

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Speaker 2: This movie is a Xanax nightmare that Elizabeth Sparkle has

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Speaker 2: the day she's fired by Dennis Quaid over shrimp. She

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Speaker 2: wakes up the next morning and starts applying to masters programs,

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Speaker 2: asking around about ghostwriters for her memoir, and looking up

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Speaker 2: the prices of ranches in upstate New York. She lives

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Speaker 2: another thirty five years and starts a terrible wine brand

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Speaker 2: and a terrible podcast. She is sort of happy, that

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Speaker 2: is I think the true ending, because this whole movie

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Speaker 2: it just is like a nightmare. Or I read in

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Speaker 2: a review from The White Pube it's she said something like,

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Speaker 2: it's like a game of the Sims being played by

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Speaker 2: the most depressed person in the world. Oh wow, for

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Speaker 2: the spaces are weirdly vacant. There's nowhere to go, there's

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Speaker 2: no one to talk to, it's weirdly aggressive. There's either

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Speaker 2: too much food or no food at all. Like, it

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Speaker 2: just is like a really scary game of the Sims.

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Speaker 2: And I like that reading.

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Speaker 1: I love that reading too. My version of this movie

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Speaker 1: would be when she's the older Demi Moore version, she

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Speaker 1: just takes like week long vacations every time. It's like

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Speaker 1: her turn to exist. Yeah, and then she just like

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Speaker 1: has a nice time on vacation for a.

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Speaker 2: Week at a time, go incognito mode.

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Speaker 1: And then her younger self works and like.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, brings home the bacon. But Sue that disrespectful tell

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Speaker 2: me about it. Anyways, we'll get we'll get to Sue,

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Speaker 2: we'll get there.

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Speaker 1: Okay. So Elizabeth has watched this commercial about the substance

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Speaker 1: and she learns about what the deal is and she

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Speaker 1: is not interested at first, but then she changes her

401
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Speaker 1: mind and calls the number on the flash drive. She

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00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:52,719
Speaker 1: places an order for the substance, and she's given an

403
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Speaker 1: address In the mail. She receives a key card with

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Speaker 1: the number five oh three on it. She heads to

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Speaker 1: the address where there are like lockers. One is labeled

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Speaker 1: five O three and inside is a starter kit for

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Speaker 1: the substance. There's an activator fluid which says single use,

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Speaker 1: discard after use, which is important. There's like stabilizer apparatus

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Speaker 1: for the quote unquote other self to use. There is

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Speaker 1: food for both the like original matrix and the other self.

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Speaker 1: And the idea is that you activate once, you stabilize

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Speaker 1: every day, and you switch every seven days, and remember

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Speaker 1: you are one.

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Speaker 2: It's the best like Little Monkey Pa situation in the

415
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Speaker 2: world because you're like, Okay, this would only work with

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Speaker 2: someone who had a stable sense of self. But if

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Speaker 2: you have a stable sense of self, you would never

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Speaker 2: use the substance. Sell what are you getta do?

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Speaker 1: So Elizabeth goes to her bathroom and injects herself with

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Speaker 1: the Shrek color activator fluid, and then it begins. She collapses,

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Speaker 1: Her back begins to split open, and she births Margaret Qually.

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Speaker 2: The whole Audiees is screaming, let's go, let's go, let's go.

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Speaker 1: And this other self she has a cute button nose,

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Speaker 1: thick wavy locks, taut round buttocks. Yes, that is a

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Speaker 1: quote from Shrek to thank you so much.

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Speaker 2: Well done, well done.

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00:23:32,440 --> 00:23:34,560
Speaker 1: Well well let's cause did you see that meme going

428
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Speaker 1: around where it's comparing Shrek too with the substance No,

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Speaker 1: let me show you. I'm gonna text, wowk you thank you.

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Speaker 2: This is what friendship is all about. I did appreciate.

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Speaker 2: I didn't know this, but that Margaret quality is like

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Speaker 2: wearing a lot of prosthetics to be Sue. Like that

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Speaker 2: is not her body.

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Speaker 1: Oh I didn't realize that either.

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00:23:56,560 --> 00:24:00,600
Speaker 2: Yeah, she's wearing like chicken cutlets. The boom are fake,

436
00:24:00,840 --> 00:24:03,679
Speaker 2: the butt is fake. Oh, which I guess was like

437
00:24:03,760 --> 00:24:07,159
Speaker 2: a choice by both her and Coralie, where like, I

438
00:24:07,160 --> 00:24:10,480
Speaker 2: know she like worked out a lot to be Sue,

439
00:24:10,480 --> 00:24:13,280
Speaker 2: but like they physically altered. I think that they made

440
00:24:13,320 --> 00:24:16,320
Speaker 2: slight alterations to her face just to like make her

441
00:24:16,440 --> 00:24:19,080
Speaker 2: feel like an uncanny version of herself.

442
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:25,000
Speaker 1: Okay, okay, yeah, okay. So we meet the other self

443
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:31,960
Speaker 1: played by Margaret qually, she sews up the original Matrix

444
00:24:32,200 --> 00:24:36,560
Speaker 1: self aka Dememur. She puts the feeding tube in her,

445
00:24:37,480 --> 00:24:41,600
Speaker 1: and she has to remember to stabilize, which requires the

446
00:24:41,640 --> 00:24:47,440
Speaker 1: other self to extract some kind of body goo from

447
00:24:48,119 --> 00:24:53,879
Speaker 1: Demimur's spine and inject it into the other self, or

448
00:24:53,880 --> 00:24:56,480
Speaker 1: else she'll get like a bloody nose and she'll get

449
00:24:56,480 --> 00:25:01,879
Speaker 1: all dizzy and sick. Once she stabilizes, the Margaret quality

450
00:25:02,119 --> 00:25:05,719
Speaker 1: other self heads to a cast and call for the

451
00:25:05,840 --> 00:25:10,159
Speaker 1: new Elizabeth Sparkle, and she nails the audition and lands

452
00:25:10,200 --> 00:25:14,920
Speaker 1: the part because she is Elizabeth Sparkle. Although she calls

453
00:25:14,960 --> 00:25:24,080
Speaker 1: herself Sue. The network executive Harvey loves her because she's young, yep,

454
00:25:24,320 --> 00:25:24,600
Speaker 1: and the.

455
00:25:24,560 --> 00:25:26,840
Speaker 2: Way he talks to her is equally disgusting in a

456
00:25:26,880 --> 00:25:32,760
Speaker 2: totally different way. For sure, is like baby angel, mommy daughter,

457
00:25:33,040 --> 00:25:34,879
Speaker 2: Like it's yeah.

458
00:25:35,280 --> 00:25:37,840
Speaker 1: Sue tells him that she can only tape the show

459
00:25:37,920 --> 00:25:40,080
Speaker 1: every other week because she has to take care of

460
00:25:40,119 --> 00:25:44,520
Speaker 1: her sick mother, and Harvey's like, no problem, you're young,

461
00:25:44,760 --> 00:25:46,960
Speaker 1: so I'll bend over backwards for you.

462
00:25:47,240 --> 00:25:49,399
Speaker 2: Right, and like that was not my experience as a

463
00:25:49,720 --> 00:25:52,080
Speaker 2: woman in the workplace, but sure, they're like no work

464
00:25:52,160 --> 00:25:53,240
Speaker 2: twice as hard there.

465
00:25:54,000 --> 00:25:58,679
Speaker 1: Yeah, So Sue starts prepping for her fitness show, but

466
00:25:58,920 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 1: before she knows it, her first week is up and

467
00:26:02,800 --> 00:26:06,880
Speaker 1: she has to switch back to Elizabeth, who spends most

468
00:26:06,920 --> 00:26:11,560
Speaker 1: of her week watching TV. She does go out though,

469
00:26:11,600 --> 00:26:14,080
Speaker 1: at one point, to pick up her refill kit with

470
00:26:14,280 --> 00:26:22,240
Speaker 1: more injectable food goo and stabilizer containers. Cut to She's

471
00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:26,600
Speaker 1: Sue again, and you can tell that Sue thinks Elizabeth

472
00:26:26,800 --> 00:26:31,040
Speaker 1: is kind of pathetic. She builds a secret room in

473
00:26:31,080 --> 00:26:34,160
Speaker 1: her bathroom to like Elizabeth the most.

474
00:26:34,600 --> 00:26:36,440
Speaker 2: I love that. That is like the somehow the most

475
00:26:36,520 --> 00:26:41,359
Speaker 2: unrealistic thing that happens in the movie is that Sue

476
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:45,560
Speaker 2: Elizabeth both know how to build like a secret like

477
00:26:45,760 --> 00:26:49,200
Speaker 2: panic room. It's great, Yeah, I'm on board.

478
00:26:49,359 --> 00:26:52,479
Speaker 1: Where did those skills come from? But it's part of

479
00:26:52,520 --> 00:26:56,440
Speaker 1: just like the you know, very heightened reality thing.

480
00:26:56,720 --> 00:26:58,920
Speaker 2: I really like, this whole movie is just a bad dream.

481
00:26:59,119 --> 00:27:00,440
Speaker 2: Like it's it makes sense.

482
00:27:00,760 --> 00:27:06,000
Speaker 1: Yes. Then it's the first taping of the new fitness

483
00:27:06,040 --> 00:27:11,639
Speaker 1: show of Sue's called Pump It Up. And oh, the

484
00:27:11,680 --> 00:27:16,120
Speaker 1: booties are shaking, the hips are thrusting.

485
00:27:16,000 --> 00:27:21,199
Speaker 2: But it is basically just hornier Elizabeth Sparkle because she

486
00:27:21,600 --> 00:27:23,879
Speaker 2: is hornier Elizabeth.

487
00:27:23,400 --> 00:27:29,560
Speaker 1: Bark Right, Sue goes out with her hot young friends.

488
00:27:29,920 --> 00:27:33,400
Speaker 1: She brings home a hot young guy, but oh no,

489
00:27:33,480 --> 00:27:36,920
Speaker 1: it's time to switch back to Elizabeth. But rather than

490
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:40,840
Speaker 1: doing so when the time runs out, Sue extracts some

491
00:27:41,040 --> 00:27:45,920
Speaker 1: extra stabilizer goo from Elizabeth to give herself a little

492
00:27:45,960 --> 00:27:50,080
Speaker 1: bit of extra time so she can smooch this hot man.

493
00:27:50,480 --> 00:27:52,040
Speaker 2: And she's on the cover of Vogue.

494
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,440
Speaker 1: And she's on the cover of Vogue. When they do

495
00:27:55,600 --> 00:27:59,480
Speaker 1: switch back and Elizabeth wakes up, she notices that one

496
00:27:59,520 --> 00:28:03,959
Speaker 1: of her fas is different. It's like gnarled, and it

497
00:28:04,000 --> 00:28:05,680
Speaker 1: looks much older.

498
00:28:06,040 --> 00:28:08,520
Speaker 2: It's like a snow white witch finger.

499
00:28:08,560 --> 00:28:13,720
Speaker 1: Yes exactly. She panics and calls the Substance Hotline to

500
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,600
Speaker 1: see if it can be reversed, but it cannot, so

501
00:28:17,880 --> 00:28:23,200
Speaker 1: Elizabeth blames Sue. But the guy, the Substance hotline guy,

502
00:28:23,400 --> 00:28:27,359
Speaker 1: is like, remember, there is no her and you. You

503
00:28:27,520 --> 00:28:29,960
Speaker 1: are one, respect the balance.

504
00:28:30,040 --> 00:28:31,800
Speaker 2: The more you say that, the more I'm like, you

505
00:28:31,920 --> 00:28:35,760
Speaker 2: are right. They must share each other's memories.

506
00:28:36,040 --> 00:28:39,080
Speaker 1: I think they share consciousness, they share memories. They just

507
00:28:39,280 --> 00:28:41,480
Speaker 1: like really resent the hell out of each other.

508
00:28:41,920 --> 00:28:43,560
Speaker 2: Right, They just hate each other so much that they

509
00:28:43,600 --> 00:28:46,760
Speaker 2: are like blind to each other's intentions or something, or

510
00:28:46,760 --> 00:28:49,920
Speaker 2: even at the end where you know, Demi Moore is like, nah,

511
00:28:50,000 --> 00:28:55,000
Speaker 2: I can't kill you because I hate myself and you're like, oh, yeah,

512
00:28:55,080 --> 00:28:58,400
Speaker 2: it's true. But the guy on the other side of

513
00:28:58,400 --> 00:29:00,560
Speaker 2: the substance hotline, he cracks me up. But he's such

514
00:29:00,600 --> 00:29:05,880
Speaker 2: a little asshole. Where she's like, well, she's using too

515
00:29:05,960 --> 00:29:08,080
Speaker 2: much of her time, and he's like respect it. Click,

516
00:29:08,520 --> 00:29:10,160
Speaker 2: You're like, damn, okay.

517
00:29:09,960 --> 00:29:14,920
Speaker 1: He's a bitch. Yeah, voiced by an actor named jan Bean.

518
00:29:15,600 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 2: Well, he did great.

519
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:20,760
Speaker 1: He did a great job anyway, So he's like respect

520
00:29:20,760 --> 00:29:24,560
Speaker 1: the balance. So Elizabeth is furious. She's clearly starting to

521
00:29:24,680 --> 00:29:28,680
Speaker 1: resent Sue. She goes to pick up another refill kit

522
00:29:28,960 --> 00:29:32,840
Speaker 1: and bumps into an old man who she realizes is

523
00:29:32,920 --> 00:29:36,600
Speaker 1: the older version of the young doctor who had told

524
00:29:36,640 --> 00:29:40,800
Speaker 1: her about the substance originally. He kind of reminds her

525
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:45,760
Speaker 1: that the older versions of themselves still deserve to exist,

526
00:29:46,160 --> 00:29:49,840
Speaker 1: that they still matter. But she's very shaken up about

527
00:29:49,840 --> 00:29:51,040
Speaker 1: this whole interaction.

528
00:29:51,520 --> 00:29:53,240
Speaker 2: I mean, it is very scary.

529
00:29:53,520 --> 00:29:58,280
Speaker 1: It's alarming. Yeah, And she goes home and she calls

530
00:29:58,360 --> 00:30:02,040
Speaker 1: that guy Fred, the one she knew from high school

531
00:30:02,080 --> 00:30:04,560
Speaker 1: who said you're the most beautiful woman in the whole

532
00:30:04,640 --> 00:30:08,160
Speaker 1: wide world. And she asks if he wants to go

533
00:30:08,240 --> 00:30:11,160
Speaker 1: out with her, and they plan a date for that night.

534
00:30:12,000 --> 00:30:17,120
Speaker 1: But as Elizabeth is getting ready, she's clearly feeling very insecure.

535
00:30:17,840 --> 00:30:21,440
Speaker 1: She's applying more and more makeup, she's fussing with her hair,

536
00:30:22,040 --> 00:30:26,959
Speaker 1: maybe trying to look younger. Perhaps there's a billboard of

537
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:31,160
Speaker 1: Sue that's very prominently displayed right outside her window.

538
00:30:31,560 --> 00:30:34,200
Speaker 2: I love that. I also because this VIVIEO is shot

539
00:30:34,240 --> 00:30:38,000
Speaker 2: in like mostly France, that's all like a painting, Yeah,

540
00:30:38,040 --> 00:30:38,800
Speaker 2: which is cool.

541
00:30:40,000 --> 00:30:42,240
Speaker 1: I mean, so many of the technical things about this

542
00:30:42,360 --> 00:30:47,520
Speaker 1: movie are really awesome, like the production design, the sound design, yeah,

543
00:30:47,520 --> 00:30:52,479
Speaker 1: the cinematography, all that stuff is like just so incredible. Anyway,

544
00:30:52,560 --> 00:30:57,680
Speaker 1: so this billboard is like taunting Elizabeth and she ends

545
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,000
Speaker 1: up having a breakdown and she bails on the date

546
00:31:01,240 --> 00:31:08,200
Speaker 1: and stays home, and like binge eats cut to Sue

547
00:31:08,720 --> 00:31:12,680
Speaker 1: at a taping of her fitness show, and something weird happens.

548
00:31:12,720 --> 00:31:16,000
Speaker 1: There's a big bulge that like temporarily pops out of

549
00:31:16,040 --> 00:31:17,000
Speaker 1: her butt cheek.

550
00:31:17,880 --> 00:31:21,880
Speaker 2: This scene is it was really fun to watch it

551
00:31:21,880 --> 00:31:25,760
Speaker 2: in audience. But also like again, just like the nightmare

552
00:31:25,880 --> 00:31:29,120
Speaker 2: quality of how they're like, wait a sec, like it

553
00:31:29,160 --> 00:31:32,680
Speaker 2: moves so slow, but I don't know. Obviously, Sue is

554
00:31:32,720 --> 00:31:35,800
Speaker 2: not the more empathetic or sympathetic of the characters, but

555
00:31:35,840 --> 00:31:37,800
Speaker 2: I felt so bad for her. Where they're like, oh,

556
00:31:37,840 --> 00:31:40,920
Speaker 2: something looks weird, let's put it up so everyone can see,

557
00:31:41,920 --> 00:31:44,200
Speaker 2: and they're like, let's make it really slow.

558
00:31:44,480 --> 00:31:50,440
Speaker 1: Frame she's panicking, nightmare. She goes to her dressing room

559
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:56,000
Speaker 1: and pulls a chicken drumstick out of her belly button. Awesome, horrifying.

560
00:31:56,440 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 1: I have a belly button thing, any fetish, No, I'm

561
00:32:03,080 --> 00:32:05,680
Speaker 1: so grossed out by belly button things, like the scene

562
00:32:05,680 --> 00:32:08,520
Speaker 1: from The Matrix when they pull the bug out of

563
00:32:08,560 --> 00:32:12,040
Speaker 1: his belly button. I cannot watch it to this day.

564
00:32:12,200 --> 00:32:14,800
Speaker 1: It grosses me out so much. Anyway, so that was

565
00:32:14,880 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: a horrifying moment in the movie for me. Sue is

566
00:32:19,520 --> 00:32:24,560
Speaker 1: again very frustrated with Elizabeth and she thinks she's about

567
00:32:24,600 --> 00:32:28,240
Speaker 1: to be fired from her show, but it turns out

568
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:32,240
Speaker 1: that Sue is actually so popular that they're having her

569
00:32:32,400 --> 00:32:36,920
Speaker 1: host the network's New Year's Eve show. This is a

570
00:32:37,000 --> 00:32:38,840
Speaker 1: huge opportunity, which again.

571
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:42,000
Speaker 2: It's just like right, the New Year's Eve show that

572
00:32:42,040 --> 00:32:44,160
Speaker 2: we all love exactly.

573
00:32:44,320 --> 00:32:47,560
Speaker 1: She's basically Ryan Seacrest question Mark.

574
00:32:47,680 --> 00:32:51,360
Speaker 2: Except Ryan Seacrest hosts something. It's like, it doesn't it's

575
00:32:51,400 --> 00:32:54,080
Speaker 2: so unclear what is supposed to happen at this show

576
00:32:55,160 --> 00:32:59,080
Speaker 2: where they're like there's dancers and there's Margaret Qualley and

577
00:32:59,120 --> 00:33:02,520
Speaker 2: you're like, oh, then that's all we know and that's

578
00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:03,239
Speaker 2: all we need to know.

579
00:33:03,680 --> 00:33:05,040
Speaker 1: I never even thought about that.

580
00:33:05,440 --> 00:33:08,000
Speaker 2: Oh, I couldn't stop thinking about it. Also, it's such

581
00:33:08,000 --> 00:33:10,760
Speaker 2: a small audience, Like it really did feel I know

582
00:33:10,800 --> 00:33:12,800
Speaker 2: that you're not a David lynchhead, but that it just

583
00:33:12,840 --> 00:33:16,360
Speaker 2: reminded me of like all of like the vacant theaters

584
00:33:16,400 --> 00:33:18,920
Speaker 2: that scary scenes and David Lynch movies take place in,

585
00:33:19,000 --> 00:33:21,280
Speaker 2: where you're like, why is this space so small? She's

586
00:33:21,320 --> 00:33:24,880
Speaker 2: the most famous person in the world. What is the show? What? Like,

587
00:33:25,600 --> 00:33:28,080
Speaker 2: why are people so excited about her when she can't?

588
00:33:28,120 --> 00:33:30,400
Speaker 2: I mean whatever, it's all like hyper stylized it, but

589
00:33:30,480 --> 00:33:33,000
Speaker 2: like it's just it's just funny.

590
00:33:33,040 --> 00:33:36,440
Speaker 1: They built that entire set, so that's not a real theater.

591
00:33:37,000 --> 00:33:40,040
Speaker 1: They built the theater set because they knew they were

592
00:33:40,040 --> 00:33:43,760
Speaker 1: gonna spray over five thousand gallons of fake blood.

593
00:33:43,920 --> 00:33:47,760
Speaker 2: And Corly Frejo is holding the blood gun the whole time.

594
00:33:48,040 --> 00:33:50,480
Speaker 2: She's like wearing that that like POV shot is like

595
00:33:50,840 --> 00:33:53,400
Speaker 2: wearing the helmet and this we can link it in.

596
00:33:53,520 --> 00:33:56,400
Speaker 2: There's like a half hour making of featurette that's on

597
00:33:56,440 --> 00:33:59,320
Speaker 2: YouTube that you can see so many most of the

598
00:33:59,320 --> 00:34:02,840
Speaker 2: POV shots that's our Coraley Frego with a helmet, Camon

599
00:34:03,160 --> 00:34:06,360
Speaker 2: Oh my gosh, like including the body horror shot where

600
00:34:06,720 --> 00:34:09,759
Speaker 2: Margaret Qualley is in the elevator like that's Coralate Like

601
00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:11,239
Speaker 2: it's just uh, it's so cool.

602
00:34:11,480 --> 00:34:16,720
Speaker 1: Hell yeah. Anyway, So the point is, Sue is given

603
00:34:17,040 --> 00:34:20,960
Speaker 1: this opportunity to host the huge New Year's Eve show

604
00:34:21,000 --> 00:34:25,319
Speaker 1: that the network does, and Sue is not gonna let

605
00:34:25,440 --> 00:34:30,080
Speaker 1: Elizabeth screw it up, and she basically starts living as Sue,

606
00:34:31,040 --> 00:34:36,960
Speaker 1: well past her allotted seven days. Sue does finally let

607
00:34:37,000 --> 00:34:40,920
Speaker 1: them switch and let Elizabeth live for a while, but

608
00:34:41,120 --> 00:34:43,600
Speaker 1: all of that extra time has taken a big toll

609
00:34:43,719 --> 00:34:47,839
Speaker 1: on Elizabeth, where basically half of her body is this

610
00:34:48,120 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: like just old looking haggish for lack of a better term, aesthetic.

611
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean it is like definitely pulling from like

612
00:34:58,320 --> 00:35:00,320
Speaker 2: hag horror AESTHETICI.

613
00:35:00,160 --> 00:35:02,919
Speaker 1: Right, And there's lots to talk about there, we'll get there.

614
00:35:03,000 --> 00:35:05,880
Speaker 1: But she doesn't like the way she looks, and she

615
00:35:06,040 --> 00:35:09,320
Speaker 1: calls the substance hotline and the guy is like, well,

616
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:11,680
Speaker 1: do you want to stop? You can go back to

617
00:35:11,800 --> 00:35:16,200
Speaker 1: being just you, although there's no reversing any of the

618
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:20,080
Speaker 1: effects that this experience has had. So because she can't

619
00:35:20,120 --> 00:35:23,439
Speaker 1: reverse anything, she decides to keep going on with it.

620
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:28,399
Speaker 1: Elizabeth takes out the French cookbook that Harvey had given

621
00:35:28,440 --> 00:35:31,160
Speaker 1: her as a parting gift when she got fired, and

622
00:35:31,239 --> 00:35:32,720
Speaker 1: she starts cooking up a storm.

623
00:35:32,880 --> 00:35:36,320
Speaker 2: We get a hot dog moment, blood sausage.

624
00:35:36,000 --> 00:35:40,000
Speaker 1: Oh right, because like, this is the grossest version of

625
00:35:40,040 --> 00:35:42,520
Speaker 1: French cooking that you've ever seen on screen. This is

626
00:35:42,600 --> 00:35:46,560
Speaker 1: no Julie and Julia. This is no the taste of things.

627
00:35:46,640 --> 00:35:49,799
Speaker 2: It's like, what if all French cooking was mayonnaise and

628
00:35:50,040 --> 00:35:52,759
Speaker 2: rotisserie chicken. Whatever it is.

629
00:35:52,800 --> 00:35:55,520
Speaker 1: It looks nasty as hell, but on purpose, like it

630
00:35:55,600 --> 00:35:59,319
Speaker 1: purposefully is like part of the horror and grotesqueness of

631
00:35:59,360 --> 00:36:03,040
Speaker 1: the movie. Yeah. This cooking scene is intercut with Sue

632
00:36:03,080 --> 00:36:06,520
Speaker 1: guesting on a late night talk show and she's being

633
00:36:06,560 --> 00:36:10,120
Speaker 1: asked about Elizabeth Sparkle and she's like I barely know

634
00:36:10,160 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: who that is. Her show is so old fashioned. Oh

635
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:17,080
Speaker 1: me and my beauty secret. Definitely, it's not the substance

636
00:36:17,160 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 1: or anything like that.

637
00:36:18,480 --> 00:36:19,480
Speaker 2: Being myself.

638
00:36:20,000 --> 00:36:22,400
Speaker 1: It was like, I just try to be my authentic self.

639
00:36:22,840 --> 00:36:27,000
Speaker 2: That really did hit because many such cases of that,

640
00:36:28,360 --> 00:36:30,200
Speaker 2: I mean, that's like what the yeah, like what the

641
00:36:30,239 --> 00:36:33,520
Speaker 2: whole beauty industry is predicated on. Is it's like, oh,

642
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:36,359
Speaker 2: it's just be yourself and give us money for this thing,

643
00:36:36,600 --> 00:36:41,759
Speaker 2: or like celebrities who have had other enhancements pretending that

644
00:36:42,200 --> 00:36:44,279
Speaker 2: they just use this tube that you can get for

645
00:36:44,360 --> 00:36:45,800
Speaker 2: fifty dollars at CBS.

646
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:51,279
Speaker 1: Yeah, exactly. Yeah, So we cut back to Sue. She

647
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:56,439
Speaker 1: decides that she's going to stay Sue for a very

648
00:36:56,440 --> 00:36:59,879
Speaker 1: long time, and she extracts a shitload of stabilizer goo

649
00:37:00,120 --> 00:37:03,800
Speaker 1: from Elizabeth's very infected spine.

650
00:37:04,560 --> 00:37:05,320
Speaker 2: Ugh ugh.

651
00:37:05,360 --> 00:37:09,160
Speaker 1: And this is the part where she lives as Sue

652
00:37:09,200 --> 00:37:10,320
Speaker 1: for three full months.

653
00:37:10,680 --> 00:37:13,239
Speaker 2: Yeah, she has like she's in a long term relationship

654
00:37:13,320 --> 00:37:13,879
Speaker 2: with time.

655
00:37:14,280 --> 00:37:17,400
Speaker 1: Yeah. Yes, and she's on top of the world and

656
00:37:17,520 --> 00:37:19,839
Speaker 1: the big New Year's Eve show is the next day.

657
00:37:20,800 --> 00:37:24,000
Speaker 1: But when she goes to take out more stabilizer fluid

658
00:37:24,040 --> 00:37:28,600
Speaker 1: from Elizabeth, it's all discolored and rotten, and she has

659
00:37:28,640 --> 00:37:32,480
Speaker 1: no choice but to switch back to Elizabeth to generate

660
00:37:32,560 --> 00:37:36,560
Speaker 1: more of this stabilizer fluid. When they switch, and when

661
00:37:36,680 --> 00:37:43,959
Speaker 1: Elizabeth wakes up, oh boy, she's like full hag mode again.

662
00:37:44,239 --> 00:37:47,600
Speaker 1: I don't know how health to say it, but she's bold.

663
00:37:47,920 --> 00:37:50,239
Speaker 1: She's very like hunched over.

664
00:37:50,760 --> 00:37:55,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's like a again, like a hyper stylized aging

665
00:37:55,440 --> 00:37:57,719
Speaker 2: for sure, yes, which is like I'm interested to talk

666
00:37:57,719 --> 00:37:59,120
Speaker 2: about that with you because I'm like, that's one thing

667
00:37:59,120 --> 00:38:01,000
Speaker 2: where I'm like, I I don't know how to feel about.

668
00:38:01,040 --> 00:38:03,920
Speaker 1: And we'll talk to the same we'll get there. But

669
00:38:04,040 --> 00:38:07,400
Speaker 1: she calls the substance hotline once again, and she says

670
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:10,959
Speaker 1: she wants to stop the experience, so she is sent

671
00:38:11,200 --> 00:38:16,320
Speaker 1: a termination kit and she kills or attempts to kill

672
00:38:16,400 --> 00:38:20,759
Speaker 1: Sue with a lethal injection. But then she remembers all

673
00:38:20,800 --> 00:38:24,359
Speaker 1: of her hopes and dreams of being a star and

674
00:38:24,440 --> 00:38:28,520
Speaker 1: of being adored by fans, and she changes her mind

675
00:38:28,600 --> 00:38:30,839
Speaker 1: and she wants to bring Sue back because she knows

676
00:38:30,880 --> 00:38:34,680
Speaker 1: that she needs her to live out these dreams. So

677
00:38:35,120 --> 00:38:41,840
Speaker 1: Elizabeth initiates the switch between them, which does bring Sue back,

678
00:38:42,000 --> 00:38:44,759
Speaker 1: but now they're both awake at the same time, which

679
00:38:44,800 --> 00:38:47,440
Speaker 1: is the first time this has happened in the movie.

680
00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,640
Speaker 1: Sue realizes that Elizabeth tried to terminate her, so she

681
00:38:51,880 --> 00:38:56,920
Speaker 1: attacks Elizabeth. They scuffle for a while, and Sue really

682
00:38:57,000 --> 00:38:59,759
Speaker 1: beats and bloodies the hell out of Elizabeth.

683
00:39:00,200 --> 00:39:04,560
Speaker 2: Yeah, just I guess to sell you on revenge. Revenge

684
00:39:04,640 --> 00:39:09,000
Speaker 2: is like that scene for an hour and a half. WHOA, Okay,

685
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,960
Speaker 2: it's extremely violent. Yeah yeah, but it's mostly the young

686
00:39:14,000 --> 00:39:16,279
Speaker 2: woman kicking the shit out of her oppressors.

687
00:39:17,080 --> 00:39:21,600
Speaker 1: Yes, that sounds cathartic. This was not cathartic to watch,

688
00:39:21,920 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 1: very troubling and difficult because it's so violent and Sue

689
00:39:27,440 --> 00:39:30,160
Speaker 1: is like trying to kill Elizabeth, but she realizes she

690
00:39:30,239 --> 00:39:33,680
Speaker 1: can't because they are one. And she realizes she has

691
00:39:33,680 --> 00:39:36,040
Speaker 1: to get ready for the New Year's Eve show, so

692
00:39:36,120 --> 00:39:41,520
Speaker 1: she goes to the studio, but Sue isn't feeling too great.

693
00:39:42,120 --> 00:39:47,319
Speaker 1: Her teeth a falling out, her ear falls off, and

694
00:39:47,360 --> 00:39:53,160
Speaker 1: she gets the idea, what if she substances herself because

695
00:39:53,239 --> 00:39:57,239
Speaker 1: she now needs a newer and quote unquote better and

696
00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,040
Speaker 1: more beautiful version of herself. So she goes back home

697
00:40:01,320 --> 00:40:05,560
Speaker 1: and injects herself with the leftover activator fluid, you know,

698
00:40:05,680 --> 00:40:07,600
Speaker 1: the stuff that you were only supposed to use once

699
00:40:07,680 --> 00:40:08,480
Speaker 1: and throw away.

700
00:40:09,160 --> 00:40:13,799
Speaker 2: I thought the first time I saw this movie that

701
00:40:13,800 --> 00:40:16,200
Speaker 2: that would kill her and that would be it. I

702
00:40:16,239 --> 00:40:17,960
Speaker 2: thought that that was how it was gonna end.

703
00:40:18,080 --> 00:40:21,160
Speaker 1: Got it? But that's not That is not what happens.

704
00:40:21,360 --> 00:40:23,840
Speaker 2: No, it's actually just the end of act two, which

705
00:40:24,520 --> 00:40:27,239
Speaker 2: I did not see coming. Right.

706
00:40:27,520 --> 00:40:32,239
Speaker 1: So she injects herself with this fluid. She collapses, her

707
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:38,080
Speaker 1: back splits open, and she gives birth to a grotesque

708
00:40:38,320 --> 00:40:45,040
Speaker 1: body horror combination of Elizabeth and Sue, with like body

709
00:40:45,120 --> 00:40:48,640
Speaker 1: parts all over the place. There are multiple faces and

710
00:40:48,840 --> 00:40:50,760
Speaker 1: teeth and breasts.

711
00:40:50,440 --> 00:40:52,760
Speaker 2: Called monstro Eliza, Sue.

712
00:40:53,120 --> 00:40:57,360
Speaker 1: Yes. She puts her dress back on the one that

713
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:00,800
Speaker 1: she's gonna wear for the show. She makes a little

714
00:41:00,880 --> 00:41:04,879
Speaker 1: mask for herself, and she goes back to the TV

715
00:41:05,040 --> 00:41:09,000
Speaker 1: studio and she steps on stage and everyone is like,

716
00:41:09,719 --> 00:41:14,080
Speaker 1: oh my gosh, what is that? And then she gives

717
00:41:14,120 --> 00:41:19,000
Speaker 1: birth to a breast from a vagina that's on her head,

718
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:21,240
Speaker 1: and that's feminism.

719
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:25,120
Speaker 2: And they're flashing back to like all of these like

720
00:41:25,280 --> 00:41:27,640
Speaker 2: cruel things that men have said to her and Sue

721
00:41:27,640 --> 00:41:30,080
Speaker 2: throughout the movie, where it's like now everything's in the

722
00:41:30,239 --> 00:41:30,880
Speaker 2: right place.

723
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,800
Speaker 1: Yes, I wasn't expecting that to like pay off really

724
00:41:36,880 --> 00:41:39,160
Speaker 1: in any way, but.

725
00:41:38,520 --> 00:41:42,319
Speaker 2: I was like, oh, yeah, she's playing five D chests. Yeah.

726
00:41:42,360 --> 00:41:45,960
Speaker 1: Then you watch a titty fallout of a face pussy

727
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:51,680
Speaker 1: and you're like whooo, yep, yep. People start freaking out

728
00:41:52,160 --> 00:41:57,600
Speaker 1: and they're screaming freak and monster, and then monstro Eliza

729
00:41:57,640 --> 00:42:01,840
Speaker 1: Sue starts to come apart, like literally that she's spraying

730
00:42:01,960 --> 00:42:04,680
Speaker 1: blood all over the audience. This is the like five

731
00:42:04,800 --> 00:42:06,600
Speaker 1: thousand gallons of fake blood.

732
00:42:06,719 --> 00:42:09,520
Speaker 2: It's like Carrie times a million.

733
00:42:09,840 --> 00:42:15,160
Speaker 1: Is Eventually, Eliza Sue makes her way out of the

734
00:42:15,239 --> 00:42:19,360
Speaker 1: studio and onto the street, where she kind of explodes.

735
00:42:20,120 --> 00:42:24,919
Speaker 1: Although Elizabeth's face is still sort of intact and it's

736
00:42:25,040 --> 00:42:29,000
Speaker 1: surrounded by like flesh and guts and it's able to

737
00:42:29,080 --> 00:42:34,759
Speaker 1: sort of drag her face onto her Hollywood Walk of

738
00:42:34,800 --> 00:42:39,040
Speaker 1: Fame star. Yeah, and then she kind of like imagines

739
00:42:39,360 --> 00:42:43,879
Speaker 1: slash fantasizes about people cheering and praising her.

740
00:42:44,360 --> 00:42:47,719
Speaker 2: It reminded me a little bit of well, there is

741
00:42:47,800 --> 00:42:50,400
Speaker 2: like a few sections of this movie that reminded me

742
00:42:50,400 --> 00:42:53,080
Speaker 2: a little bit of the ending of Black Swan as well. HM,

743
00:42:53,840 --> 00:42:57,160
Speaker 2: where it's like, you know, I mean, even though in

744
00:42:57,200 --> 00:43:01,359
Speaker 2: Black Swan, unfortunately the main character has a little bit

745
00:43:01,400 --> 00:43:04,640
Speaker 2: happier of an ending, you could argue because she does

746
00:43:04,760 --> 00:43:08,800
Speaker 2: this you know, impossible accomplishment and it kills her. Elizabeth

747
00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:10,560
Speaker 2: doesn't get what she wants and it kills her. But

748
00:43:10,560 --> 00:43:12,520
Speaker 2: if like just that whole like gazing up at the

749
00:43:12,640 --> 00:43:15,279
Speaker 2: sky and like, you know, thinking it, it just felt

750
00:43:15,280 --> 00:43:16,880
Speaker 2: like an eye was perfect kind of moment.

751
00:43:18,080 --> 00:43:21,800
Speaker 1: True. Wow, I was reminded, and I have not seen

752
00:43:22,360 --> 00:43:24,920
Speaker 1: the thing in a very long time, but there's a

753
00:43:24,960 --> 00:43:29,880
Speaker 1: similar creature that's just like a bunch of body parts,

754
00:43:29,920 --> 00:43:33,880
Speaker 1: just like a hunk of various body parts in different places,

755
00:43:34,440 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: and it kind of reminded me of that creature. Interesting

756
00:43:38,320 --> 00:43:42,680
Speaker 1: just from like a visual standpoint anyway. So Elizabeth's face

757
00:43:43,280 --> 00:43:49,080
Speaker 1: drags itself onto her Walk of Fame star and then

758
00:43:49,160 --> 00:43:54,520
Speaker 1: she melts. Yeah, and then the next day the like

759
00:43:54,680 --> 00:43:58,480
Speaker 1: blood and goo is cleaned off, and that is the

760
00:43:58,680 --> 00:44:01,920
Speaker 1: end of the movie. So let's take another quick break

761
00:44:01,960 --> 00:44:11,200
Speaker 1: and we'll come back to discuss.

762
00:44:13,239 --> 00:44:19,600
Speaker 2: And we're back. Where should we start? I mean, there's

763
00:44:19,640 --> 00:44:23,280
Speaker 2: so much to talk about yea here. I mean, I've

764
00:44:23,640 --> 00:44:26,160
Speaker 2: read a couple of them, because this is a movie

765
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:29,120
Speaker 2: that launched a bajillion takes, there would be no way

766
00:44:29,200 --> 00:44:32,080
Speaker 2: to consume them all. But I did enjoy it, you know,

767
00:44:32,320 --> 00:44:37,280
Speaker 2: like particularly seeing women whose work and brains I admire

768
00:44:37,719 --> 00:44:39,520
Speaker 2: trying to figure out why they either did or didn't

769
00:44:39,680 --> 00:44:43,399
Speaker 2: like this movie, even when I disagreed. But I guess

770
00:44:43,880 --> 00:44:47,480
Speaker 2: my curiosity because there were elements of this movie that

771
00:44:47,560 --> 00:44:50,040
Speaker 2: like I. As I was watching it the first time,

772
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:52,480
Speaker 2: I was like, there is a clear, I think like

773
00:44:52,640 --> 00:44:57,759
Speaker 2: ablest read of this movie in certain moments, and I wasn't.

774
00:44:57,800 --> 00:44:59,960
Speaker 2: I wasn't able to find an essay or anything other

775
00:45:00,080 --> 00:45:03,000
Speaker 2: been just like an observation about ableism. So I can't

776
00:45:03,040 --> 00:45:05,080
Speaker 2: really speak to that. I'm also not the right person

777
00:45:05,160 --> 00:45:06,560
Speaker 2: to speak to that, but I wanted to mention that

778
00:45:07,440 --> 00:45:10,160
Speaker 2: I guess, like, I've saw a lot of takes that

779
00:45:10,280 --> 00:45:16,040
Speaker 2: were like, the movie is agist, and I guess I

780
00:45:16,280 --> 00:45:20,280
Speaker 2: just like don't agree with that, and I think it's interesting.

781
00:45:20,360 --> 00:45:22,400
Speaker 2: And I'm not like calling anyone specific person out, but

782
00:45:22,480 --> 00:45:25,319
Speaker 2: most of the critics I saw calling this movie out

783
00:45:25,360 --> 00:45:29,879
Speaker 2: as asist were younger women, which I found interesting because

784
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:32,920
Speaker 2: I think that there is elements of this movie that

785
00:45:33,719 --> 00:45:35,399
Speaker 2: I think if I saw this movie ten years ago,

786
00:45:35,440 --> 00:45:37,080
Speaker 2: I would have loved it, and I probably would have

787
00:45:37,080 --> 00:45:40,840
Speaker 2: thought it's a little agist, But after like especially listening

788
00:45:40,880 --> 00:45:46,560
Speaker 2: to interviews with Cora Lea Fresio, like she is trying

789
00:45:46,600 --> 00:45:50,680
Speaker 2: to and I think successfully, like processing her own feelings

790
00:45:50,719 --> 00:45:54,920
Speaker 2: about aging on screen, and like in most interviews with her,

791
00:45:54,920 --> 00:45:57,759
Speaker 2: because she's in her early fifties I believe now, and

792
00:45:57,840 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: she didn't start directing until she was well into forties,

793
00:46:00,520 --> 00:46:03,439
Speaker 2: and she talked about, you know, the insecurities that came

794
00:46:03,719 --> 00:46:06,719
Speaker 2: around that and just the feeling that she was just

795
00:46:06,719 --> 00:46:09,839
Speaker 2: getting started. But soon she kept using the term of

796
00:46:09,840 --> 00:46:13,040
Speaker 2: like I just felt like, even though it was irrational,

797
00:46:13,080 --> 00:46:15,799
Speaker 2: I felt like when I turned fifty, I would be erased.

798
00:46:16,360 --> 00:46:18,839
Speaker 2: And that is like what this movie is about is

799
00:46:19,120 --> 00:46:22,600
Speaker 2: that Elizabeth is being slowly erased. And I don't know,

800
00:46:22,760 --> 00:46:24,960
Speaker 2: like I guess, yeah, what is your take on that.

801
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:27,719
Speaker 2: I understand the read of it. I just that's not

802
00:46:27,800 --> 00:46:28,480
Speaker 2: how I see it.

803
00:46:29,280 --> 00:46:33,719
Speaker 1: So corale Farja is forty eight, Okay at the time

804
00:46:33,719 --> 00:46:35,719
Speaker 1: of this recording, she would have been in her mid

805
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,120
Speaker 1: forties when she was making this movie, because I think

806
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:41,279
Speaker 1: they started shooting in twenty twenty two. I believe my

807
00:46:41,400 --> 00:46:44,799
Speaker 1: take on this, like does the movie do the thing

808
00:46:44,840 --> 00:46:47,759
Speaker 1: that we have talked about a lot before on the podcast,

809
00:46:48,040 --> 00:46:53,279
Speaker 1: where the horror and grotesqueness that is coming from the

810
00:46:53,320 --> 00:46:58,040
Speaker 1: horror movie is at the expense of the body of

811
00:46:58,080 --> 00:47:01,440
Speaker 1: an old woman, and we generally do not like that

812
00:47:01,600 --> 00:47:08,040
Speaker 1: because of its ageist implications. Yes, the movie is doing that. However,

813
00:47:08,520 --> 00:47:11,560
Speaker 1: this time it's coming from the like writer, director of

814
00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:16,240
Speaker 1: perspective of a woman, so it is happening on her terms.

815
00:47:16,360 --> 00:47:20,440
Speaker 1: You could maybe still argue that her examining all this

816
00:47:20,680 --> 00:47:25,319
Speaker 1: is coming from like internalized agism, But I.

817
00:47:25,239 --> 00:47:28,920
Speaker 2: Think exploring internalized agism is like, I think it's a

818
00:47:29,000 --> 00:47:32,479
Speaker 2: valid thing to do in a movie because, especially because

819
00:47:32,520 --> 00:47:36,680
Speaker 2: she's pretty explicit that, like, this movie was developed out

820
00:47:36,680 --> 00:47:41,640
Speaker 2: of like feelings of anxiety and insecurity she had about herself, right,

821
00:47:41,800 --> 00:47:44,080
Speaker 2: And I know that I've certainly been guilty of this

822
00:47:44,120 --> 00:47:46,680
Speaker 2: over the years of just like expecting the movie to

823
00:47:47,160 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 2: provide a comforting solution to this problem that has existed

824
00:47:53,840 --> 00:47:56,920
Speaker 2: forever and is not going to be, you know, solved

825
00:47:57,880 --> 00:48:00,440
Speaker 2: by a single movie. And that's not the purpose of

826
00:48:00,440 --> 00:48:02,600
Speaker 2: the movie. It's not a movie for cybe, it's not

827
00:48:02,640 --> 00:48:05,600
Speaker 2: a movie for children, Like you know, it's it's a

828
00:48:05,640 --> 00:48:08,279
Speaker 2: movie that is like exploring anxiety. But I feel like

829
00:48:08,280 --> 00:48:11,200
Speaker 2: there's sometimes a feeling that a movie that explores in

830
00:48:11,239 --> 00:48:15,520
Speaker 2: anxiety also has to resolve it, and that's not how

831
00:48:16,080 --> 00:48:17,320
Speaker 2: most anxiety works.

832
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:20,080
Speaker 1: I don't know right for sure. What I'll say is

833
00:48:20,120 --> 00:48:26,319
Speaker 1: that at the very least, the like old woman grotesqueness,

834
00:48:26,960 --> 00:48:30,880
Speaker 1: at least it's not coming from a like cis Man

835
00:48:31,000 --> 00:48:36,399
Speaker 1: director who's simply just like, old women's bodies are so gross, right,

836
00:48:37,200 --> 00:48:40,640
Speaker 1: It's not that this time it's a woman exploring what

837
00:48:40,840 --> 00:48:45,400
Speaker 1: it is to have a female body in the context

838
00:48:45,640 --> 00:48:50,240
Speaker 1: of a world that covets and fetishizes but also hates

839
00:48:50,960 --> 00:48:51,840
Speaker 1: female bodies.

840
00:48:52,040 --> 00:48:56,080
Speaker 2: So like this movie is only exploring CIS women for sure.

841
00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:00,200
Speaker 1: Yes, yeah, worth noting that definitely. There's an interview I

842
00:49:00,239 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: read in Offscreen Central with Corale Farjah with interviewer Kenzie Vanenu.

843
00:49:09,320 --> 00:49:15,440
Speaker 1: In this interview, Coraly says about the kind of body

844
00:49:15,440 --> 00:49:18,920
Speaker 1: horror aspect of the movie, quote, I think living with

845
00:49:19,040 --> 00:49:21,799
Speaker 1: our body from the start is a really hard experience.

846
00:49:21,960 --> 00:49:25,719
Speaker 1: The reality of our body, of the flesh, bone and

847
00:49:25,920 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: the blood of everything, is something that I think truly

848
00:49:29,719 --> 00:49:33,200
Speaker 1: shapes and defines our relationship to ourselves to the world,

849
00:49:33,640 --> 00:49:37,760
Speaker 1: and that is almost not taken into account. They're super taboo,

850
00:49:37,960 --> 00:49:42,360
Speaker 1: like the pain during the period the menopause. We're supposed

851
00:49:42,360 --> 00:49:44,840
Speaker 1: to hide all of this, it's supposed to not exist.

852
00:49:45,400 --> 00:49:47,680
Speaker 1: And so for me, body horror was something that I

853
00:49:47,800 --> 00:49:51,439
Speaker 1: naturally resonate so much with what we experience very much

854
00:49:51,520 --> 00:49:54,440
Speaker 1: in our everyday life, and it's a perfect symbol of

855
00:49:54,520 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: the violence of all the fears that we can project.

856
00:49:59,440 --> 00:50:02,600
Speaker 1: Society ask our bodies not to change, for it to

857
00:50:02,680 --> 00:50:06,840
Speaker 1: stay the same, to stay perfect, to stay sexy. Of course,

858
00:50:06,880 --> 00:50:10,359
Speaker 1: it's terrifying when your body is changing, because all day

859
00:50:10,400 --> 00:50:13,520
Speaker 1: long we hear that it shouldn't change, that it should

860
00:50:13,719 --> 00:50:16,560
Speaker 1: still be the same. That's the only way that you're

861
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,920
Speaker 1: going to be appreciated or valued. So when the body

862
00:50:20,000 --> 00:50:23,960
Speaker 1: actually lives its life of a normal body, it's totally

863
00:50:24,040 --> 00:50:27,640
Speaker 1: terrifying because we are not taught that it's just normal.

864
00:50:29,080 --> 00:50:32,080
Speaker 2: I think that's like a very clear statement of.

865
00:50:32,040 --> 00:50:38,520
Speaker 1: Intent, right and maybe down the line societally, if we

866
00:50:38,600 --> 00:50:44,280
Speaker 1: ever get there where culturally we just accept aging bodies

867
00:50:44,360 --> 00:50:50,560
Speaker 1: and particularly aging women's bodies, and like people aren't conditioned

868
00:50:50,560 --> 00:50:54,359
Speaker 1: to be horrified by that. Like a story like this

869
00:50:55,080 --> 00:50:58,520
Speaker 1: won't need to exist or that won't be something that

870
00:50:58,680 --> 00:51:03,200
Speaker 1: like an artist would be inclined to explore. But yeah,

871
00:51:03,239 --> 00:51:07,960
Speaker 1: considering just like the cultural context of of how society

872
00:51:08,040 --> 00:51:13,560
Speaker 1: disproportionately values a woman's youth, Yeah, we do need stories

873
00:51:13,560 --> 00:51:16,240
Speaker 1: that like examine the effects that that has on people,

874
00:51:16,760 --> 00:51:19,600
Speaker 1: and not just older people, like people of all ages.

875
00:51:19,719 --> 00:51:24,360
Speaker 1: Like it'll manifest as internalized agism maybe for older people.

876
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:28,400
Speaker 1: It also affects younger people because they're afraid of getting

877
00:51:28,440 --> 00:51:29,720
Speaker 1: old and like, hey.

878
00:51:29,600 --> 00:51:32,040
Speaker 2: I mean it's like there's so I mean, and I've

879
00:51:32,080 --> 00:51:35,160
Speaker 2: seen takes of like this is very timely and like

880
00:51:35,239 --> 00:51:37,200
Speaker 2: this is the worst possible movie that can come out

881
00:51:37,239 --> 00:51:40,040
Speaker 2: at this time for young women whatever. I will say that,

882
00:51:40,080 --> 00:51:42,880
Speaker 2: like this is the kind of movie that, especially if

883
00:51:43,280 --> 00:51:48,279
Speaker 2: you are a woman, will will probably resonate with you

884
00:51:48,400 --> 00:51:52,320
Speaker 2: because that is how you're perceived. And I was like, embarrassingly,

885
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,040
Speaker 2: like when I left the movie, one of the things

886
00:51:55,160 --> 00:51:57,399
Speaker 2: was like, why don't I have boobs like that? It's

887
00:51:57,440 --> 00:51:59,960
Speaker 2: because they don't exist, U, It's because they made them up.

888
00:52:00,280 --> 00:52:02,600
Speaker 2: And of course, like you bring all your own insecurities

889
00:52:02,680 --> 00:52:07,120
Speaker 2: right to a movie that is explicitly about insecurity. However,

890
00:52:08,320 --> 00:52:11,800
Speaker 2: flawed but an observation I thought was interesting that I

891
00:52:11,840 --> 00:52:14,960
Speaker 2: think was actually from Maya. I watched a couple of

892
00:52:15,000 --> 00:52:17,560
Speaker 2: different videos and red essays it was all blending together.

893
00:52:17,600 --> 00:52:19,640
Speaker 2: I think it was may Ea because I think that

894
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:22,440
Speaker 2: you know, the reasons this movie doesn't resonate with women

895
00:52:22,640 --> 00:52:26,400
Speaker 2: is also a totally valid read. But we've never been

896
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:29,279
Speaker 2: wrong before, no kidding, o, no. But Maya made a

897
00:52:29,280 --> 00:52:33,960
Speaker 2: really good point in saying that something that frustrated her

898
00:52:34,560 --> 00:52:37,520
Speaker 2: with regard to this movie was that she couldn't think

899
00:52:37,640 --> 00:52:43,960
Speaker 2: of a movie that showed an older or elderly woman's

900
00:52:44,160 --> 00:52:47,759
Speaker 2: naked body that wasn't a horror movie. I think that

901
00:52:47,880 --> 00:52:49,600
Speaker 2: is a really valid point. I just don't think that

902
00:52:49,600 --> 00:52:52,719
Speaker 2: that is a fault of the substance necessarily. I do

903
00:52:52,760 --> 00:52:55,840
Speaker 2: think that that's a cultural thing, is that we're trained

904
00:52:55,880 --> 00:52:59,880
Speaker 2: to see an elderly woman's body as a site of horror,

905
00:53:00,600 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 2: and you can argue that the substance does that. But

906
00:53:02,719 --> 00:53:05,799
Speaker 2: I agree with you, Caitlin, that that is I don't know.

907
00:53:05,880 --> 00:53:09,839
Speaker 2: I can see like if I was very old and

908
00:53:09,920 --> 00:53:12,719
Speaker 2: saw that depiction, especially because it's a younger actor in

909
00:53:12,880 --> 00:53:17,839
Speaker 2: elderly prosthetics, which we see in movies like Pearl, which

910
00:53:17,840 --> 00:53:20,799
Speaker 2: we see it like it is a fairly common thing. Like,

911
00:53:20,840 --> 00:53:22,520
Speaker 2: I think that that is a valid point to make

912
00:53:22,520 --> 00:53:26,879
Speaker 2: that this movie isn't really changing that. But I also

913
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:29,120
Speaker 2: I am like, if the alternative is casting an older

914
00:53:29,160 --> 00:53:31,319
Speaker 2: actor and treating them as a side of horror, I

915
00:53:31,320 --> 00:53:33,440
Speaker 2: don't like that better. I don't really know what the

916
00:53:33,480 --> 00:53:34,920
Speaker 2: solution is there.

917
00:53:36,080 --> 00:53:40,440
Speaker 1: Counterpoint sort of, So Elizabeth Sparkle, the character is supposed

918
00:53:40,480 --> 00:53:42,600
Speaker 1: to be fifty, like we see her on her fiftieth

919
00:53:42,640 --> 00:53:45,480
Speaker 1: birthday at the start of the movie, right, although to

920
00:53:45,520 --> 00:53:49,200
Speaker 1: me Moore she's currently sixty two. She was sixty when

921
00:53:49,200 --> 00:53:54,080
Speaker 1: the movie started filming, So you know, she's an older

922
00:53:54,120 --> 00:53:58,120
Speaker 1: woman whose naked body at first is not shown to

923
00:53:58,200 --> 00:54:01,440
Speaker 1: be grotesque and horror.

924
00:54:01,960 --> 00:54:04,120
Speaker 2: No, it's just what you see is that she is

925
00:54:04,160 --> 00:54:08,120
Speaker 2: not happy with her body the main takeaway. And yeah,

926
00:54:08,160 --> 00:54:10,400
Speaker 2: I felt like some people being like, well you do

927
00:54:10,480 --> 00:54:12,920
Speaker 2: see Demi Moore's gross body a little bit at the beginning.

928
00:54:12,960 --> 00:54:15,360
Speaker 2: I'm like, well, that's a you problem that you forget

929
00:54:15,400 --> 00:54:16,520
Speaker 2: if you think that's gross.

930
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:21,279
Speaker 1: Also like, okay, yes, she's sixty and she has a

931
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:22,480
Speaker 1: beautiful body.

932
00:54:22,640 --> 00:54:23,759
Speaker 2: She's famously hot.

933
00:54:23,840 --> 00:54:26,680
Speaker 1: Demi Moore is famously hot, especially by you know, Western

934
00:54:26,719 --> 00:54:32,040
Speaker 1: beauty standards, but her sixty year old body is I mean,

935
00:54:32,440 --> 00:54:35,680
Speaker 1: she has access as a like rich and famous celebrity,

936
00:54:36,440 --> 00:54:41,120
Speaker 1: she has access to you know, the best like fitness

937
00:54:41,160 --> 00:54:46,399
Speaker 1: training and food that helps maintain a certain physique. And

938
00:54:47,200 --> 00:54:50,440
Speaker 1: I have no idea how many or if any cosmetic

939
00:54:50,480 --> 00:54:54,800
Speaker 1: procedures she has had, but like many many actors and

940
00:54:54,840 --> 00:54:59,040
Speaker 1: celebrities and stuff, do no judgment about that. But like

941
00:54:59,440 --> 00:55:02,799
Speaker 1: the whole thing about the entertainment industry is that you're

942
00:55:02,840 --> 00:55:07,480
Speaker 1: expected to look a certain way. And so Demi Moore's

943
00:55:07,640 --> 00:55:11,759
Speaker 1: six year old body compared to like an average person's

944
00:55:11,920 --> 00:55:16,680
Speaker 1: sixty year old body is quite different. So there's that

945
00:55:16,680 --> 00:55:18,120
Speaker 1: that you have to take into account.

946
00:55:18,880 --> 00:55:22,800
Speaker 2: Right, I agree with you absolutely. I guess another criticism

947
00:55:22,880 --> 00:55:26,440
Speaker 2: I was chafing with is like criticisms that I feel

948
00:55:26,480 --> 00:55:30,200
Speaker 2: like that's kind of the point. Like if it wasn't

949
00:55:30,239 --> 00:55:35,600
Speaker 2: the point, then Elizabeth Sparkle wouldn't be a famous media personality, right,

950
00:55:35,800 --> 00:55:37,560
Speaker 2: it wouldn't be, like I mean, and not to say

951
00:55:37,560 --> 00:55:42,040
Speaker 2: that there aren't actors who naturally age, that's absolutely true,

952
00:55:42,480 --> 00:55:44,440
Speaker 2: and it's like tricky to have this conversation, but I

953
00:55:44,440 --> 00:55:48,120
Speaker 2: think that this movie has it pretty effectively where realistically

954
00:55:48,640 --> 00:55:51,239
Speaker 2: because of the expectations. And I can think of, you know,

955
00:55:51,440 --> 00:55:54,919
Speaker 2: five actors over fifty off the top of my head,

956
00:55:55,280 --> 00:55:58,000
Speaker 2: who are women who are working high up in Hollywood,

957
00:55:58,320 --> 00:56:01,880
Speaker 2: and they've all had to do some thing to maintain

958
00:56:02,160 --> 00:56:04,840
Speaker 2: a look of youth. And that is not a criticism

959
00:56:04,920 --> 00:56:07,719
Speaker 2: of them. I think that that is like, unfortunately, the

960
00:56:07,880 --> 00:56:12,520
Speaker 2: uncanny moment that we're in that if you want to

961
00:56:12,560 --> 00:56:15,680
Speaker 2: still be a leading lady and not a character actor,

962
00:56:16,080 --> 00:56:21,720
Speaker 2: you are not able to age naturally. And I do believe,

963
00:56:21,719 --> 00:56:23,799
Speaker 2: like I think that sometimes we get this messaging of like,

964
00:56:24,120 --> 00:56:27,000
Speaker 2: isn't it amazing that like women over fifty can be

965
00:56:27,040 --> 00:56:30,640
Speaker 2: a movies now? And you're like, yes, because these women

966
00:56:30,719 --> 00:56:33,879
Speaker 2: are unbelievably talented, They've worked for it, and like as

967
00:56:33,920 --> 00:56:36,200
Speaker 2: their career goes on, they can produce their own projects,

968
00:56:36,239 --> 00:56:39,520
Speaker 2: they can have more creative say they deserve that, but

969
00:56:39,560 --> 00:56:41,880
Speaker 2: it would be dishonest and this is again not a

970
00:56:41,920 --> 00:56:44,640
Speaker 2: criticism of these women, but it would be dishonest to

971
00:56:44,680 --> 00:56:47,840
Speaker 2: say that there isn't an exchange for that. Like there

972
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,399
Speaker 2: I can't think of an actor who's a woman over

973
00:56:51,440 --> 00:56:56,480
Speaker 2: fifty in main roles except maybe Francis McDormand, and even

974
00:56:56,520 --> 00:57:00,520
Speaker 2: those are like indies generally, who is the leading actor

975
00:57:00,600 --> 00:57:04,600
Speaker 2: in a movie and has aged completely naturally, It's just

976
00:57:04,600 --> 00:57:07,160
Speaker 2: not something that is permitted. And I think and that's

977
00:57:07,239 --> 00:57:09,400
Speaker 2: part of what the movie is commenting on. And it

978
00:57:09,440 --> 00:57:13,600
Speaker 2: feels like really important to Elizabeth's character of like she

979
00:57:13,719 --> 00:57:17,600
Speaker 2: has done everything quote unquote right, she has maintained her

980
00:57:17,640 --> 00:57:20,360
Speaker 2: body and whatever. We don't know, you know, because we

981
00:57:20,400 --> 00:57:22,479
Speaker 2: don't know a lot about Elizabeth, which I also feel

982
00:57:22,480 --> 00:57:25,000
Speaker 2: like is kind of intentional because she is just this

983
00:57:25,120 --> 00:57:29,480
Speaker 2: like Cipher. But yeah, like she's done everything right, but

984
00:57:29,560 --> 00:57:33,240
Speaker 2: it's not good enough, and so she gets drunk, similar

985
00:57:33,320 --> 00:57:35,920
Speaker 2: to like Jeff Goldblum in The Fly, she gets drunk,

986
00:57:36,320 --> 00:57:40,960
Speaker 2: makes a dumb decision and it ruins her life. You know.

987
00:57:41,480 --> 00:57:45,680
Speaker 2: That's a lot of body orr and especially with Demi

988
00:57:45,720 --> 00:57:48,960
Speaker 2: more specifically, I was thinking about and others have made

989
00:57:48,960 --> 00:57:51,720
Speaker 2: this observation as well, but how Demi Moore is like

990
00:57:51,720 --> 00:57:54,840
Speaker 2: such an interesting choice for this part because her age

991
00:57:55,320 --> 00:57:58,600
Speaker 2: has been the subject of discussion for decades, like when

992
00:57:58,600 --> 00:58:01,720
Speaker 2: she was dating Ashton that it was like she was

993
00:58:01,760 --> 00:58:06,000
Speaker 2: like the quote unquote cougarla. Her age has been a

994
00:58:06,520 --> 00:58:11,600
Speaker 2: subject of discussion since she was like forty and there

995
00:58:11,720 --> 00:58:13,640
Speaker 2: was you know, in the last couple of years, like

996
00:58:13,720 --> 00:58:17,000
Speaker 2: this sort of round of mockery that happens when any woman,

997
00:58:17,080 --> 00:58:20,240
Speaker 2: but particularly an older woman who's quote unquote, you know,

998
00:58:20,360 --> 00:58:22,120
Speaker 2: not what she used to be, and the way that

999
00:58:22,160 --> 00:58:24,800
Speaker 2: people talk about women who are aging and then try

1000
00:58:24,840 --> 00:58:28,480
Speaker 2: to quote unquote fix the problem by getting an alteration,

1001
00:58:28,640 --> 00:58:30,520
Speaker 2: and then they're mocked for it if it doesn't look

1002
00:58:30,560 --> 00:58:34,400
Speaker 2: completely natural. And yeah, another thing I was watching is

1003
00:58:34,400 --> 00:58:37,120
Speaker 2: there's a really good Mina let video. I'm a big

1004
00:58:37,160 --> 00:58:40,080
Speaker 2: fan of hers. Yeah, her and my Ya I just

1005
00:58:40,280 --> 00:58:43,840
Speaker 2: they're the best. But Mina was making the point that,

1006
00:58:44,080 --> 00:58:47,080
Speaker 2: you know how there's a lot of you know, especially

1007
00:58:47,160 --> 00:58:49,560
Speaker 2: with like really young girls right now, there's a lot

1008
00:58:49,560 --> 00:58:54,600
Speaker 2: of fixation on like twelve step skincare routines for twelve

1009
00:58:54,680 --> 00:58:57,120
Speaker 2: year olds. There's a beauty trend where you tape your

1010
00:58:57,120 --> 00:59:01,400
Speaker 2: mouth shut at night to avoid wrinkling, and teenagers are

1011
00:59:01,560 --> 00:59:05,760
Speaker 2: literally taping their mouths shut at night. It's wild, and

1012
00:59:05,800 --> 00:59:09,840
Speaker 2: it's like, I think that this movie does effectively illustrate that,

1013
00:59:09,920 --> 00:59:12,400
Speaker 2: like it might help you in the short term, but

1014
00:59:12,440 --> 00:59:13,960
Speaker 2: it's not gonna save you, and it's not gonna make

1015
00:59:13,960 --> 00:59:17,200
Speaker 2: you happy, because this whole movie is about how Elizabeth

1016
00:59:17,240 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 2: Sparkle has been conditioned and grown to really, really really

1017
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,959
Speaker 2: hate herself and it's horrible to watch.

1018
00:59:24,960 --> 00:59:29,560
Speaker 1: Right, which is a very interesting arc where, yes, she

1019
00:59:29,640 --> 00:59:33,080
Speaker 1: has been conditioned to think that she is worthless because

1020
00:59:33,080 --> 00:59:37,640
Speaker 1: she's aging. She doesn't have the same respect and adoration

1021
00:59:37,800 --> 00:59:40,840
Speaker 1: she once had from fans. She is fired literally for

1022
00:59:40,960 --> 00:59:43,920
Speaker 1: being quote unquote too old and is going to be

1023
00:59:43,960 --> 00:59:48,640
Speaker 1: replaced by someone much younger, and obviously that takes a

1024
00:59:48,760 --> 00:59:51,200
Speaker 1: toll on her, and it prompts her to do the

1025
00:59:51,280 --> 00:59:55,120
Speaker 1: substance so that she can live as a younger version

1026
00:59:55,160 --> 00:59:57,760
Speaker 1: of herself. At least part of the time. She sees

1027
00:59:57,800 --> 01:00:02,960
Speaker 1: the stark contrast in how much more valued her younger

1028
01:00:03,040 --> 01:00:07,840
Speaker 1: self is, and that takes an even greater toll on her,

1029
01:00:08,200 --> 01:00:12,360
Speaker 1: to the point where when she's living as Elizabeth, she

1030
01:00:13,240 --> 01:00:17,240
Speaker 1: doesn't live her life. She stays inside, She watches TV,

1031
01:00:18,120 --> 01:00:23,200
Speaker 1: she engages in disordered eating. You know, she's binge eating.

1032
01:00:23,840 --> 01:00:27,760
Speaker 1: You see her like waiting for and longing for the

1033
01:00:27,880 --> 01:00:31,000
Speaker 1: moment that she can switch back over to being you know,

1034
01:00:31,080 --> 01:00:34,360
Speaker 1: her younger self, to being Sue. But then that flips

1035
01:00:34,360 --> 01:00:37,520
Speaker 1: at a certain point and it might partly be that

1036
01:00:37,840 --> 01:00:40,840
Speaker 1: man who says, like, don't forget that you're still worthy,

1037
01:00:40,960 --> 01:00:45,720
Speaker 1: that you still matter, and then she starts resenting Sue. Meanwhile,

1038
01:00:45,960 --> 01:00:51,080
Speaker 1: Sue is resenting her older self, thinking that she's pathetic,

1039
01:00:51,400 --> 01:00:54,480
Speaker 1: and it's like, but they're the same person.

1040
01:00:54,680 --> 01:00:57,320
Speaker 2: Right, it'sny hard. I mean it's like a like even earlier,

1041
01:00:57,360 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 2: it's like it's hard to remember that there really is

1042
01:01:00,480 --> 01:01:03,120
Speaker 2: ten years ago us would be like women are always

1043
01:01:03,160 --> 01:01:05,320
Speaker 2: turned against each other. Movie, it's like this is one

1044
01:01:05,360 --> 01:01:09,640
Speaker 2: woman's battle with fifty years of being taught that you

1045
01:01:09,680 --> 01:01:13,520
Speaker 2: should fucking hate yourself and that it's somehow your faults. Yeah,

1046
01:01:13,520 --> 01:01:16,919
Speaker 2: and it's a tragedy, like it's really it's really sad

1047
01:01:16,960 --> 01:01:20,080
Speaker 2: and that you know, she can't get herself to leave

1048
01:01:20,200 --> 01:01:24,920
Speaker 2: until she's so far gone, and it's just it's really sad.

1049
01:01:25,160 --> 01:01:28,720
Speaker 1: Yeah. I was curious what you thought about like the

1050
01:01:28,720 --> 01:01:33,480
Speaker 1: moral of the story or like what the takeaway might be,

1051
01:01:33,480 --> 01:01:38,400
Speaker 1: because I was like, is it something like don't try

1052
01:01:38,440 --> 01:01:42,040
Speaker 1: to cheat changing because you'll turn into a monstral ali

1053
01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:45,400
Speaker 1: is as Sue and explode into blood on Hollywood Boulevard.

1054
01:01:45,840 --> 01:01:48,760
Speaker 1: And it's more complicated than that, but like for.

1055
01:01:48,800 --> 01:01:51,000
Speaker 2: Me, it comes down to like, it's not offering a

1056
01:01:51,040 --> 01:01:56,960
Speaker 2: clean moral or solution, but to me, it's like, weirdly again,

1057
01:01:57,120 --> 01:01:59,760
Speaker 2: this is a very different movie from Black Swan, but

1058
01:01:59,840 --> 01:02:04,560
Speaker 2: it feels like the pursuit of perfection and the pursuit

1059
01:02:04,720 --> 01:02:09,640
Speaker 2: of a form of neglecting yourself and completely being reliant

1060
01:02:09,680 --> 01:02:15,360
Speaker 2: on the approval of others is a relentless and destructive force,

1061
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:19,240
Speaker 2: and that like is unavoidable to some extent. But it's like,

1062
01:02:19,360 --> 01:02:22,600
Speaker 2: if everyone loves you and you hate yourself, it doesn't

1063
01:02:22,600 --> 01:02:26,040
Speaker 2: make a difference. And that I think, in like the

1064
01:02:26,160 --> 01:02:31,680
Speaker 2: case of Elizabeth, that the odds are stacked against you,

1065
01:02:31,760 --> 01:02:34,360
Speaker 2: and that like giving a shit about yourself is hard

1066
01:02:34,920 --> 01:02:37,840
Speaker 2: in a world where the older you get, the less

1067
01:02:37,880 --> 01:02:38,800
Speaker 2: others will care.

1068
01:02:39,240 --> 01:02:44,680
Speaker 1: Right, you can't even blame people for having internalized agism

1069
01:02:45,000 --> 01:02:52,280
Speaker 1: when society all around you conditions you to devalue yourself

1070
01:02:52,360 --> 01:02:54,800
Speaker 1: and that you are not as worthy as you were

1071
01:02:54,840 --> 01:02:55,880
Speaker 1: when you were younger.

1072
01:02:56,120 --> 01:02:59,640
Speaker 2: So it yeah, it's broad, but it's like it's supposed

1073
01:02:59,640 --> 01:03:01,480
Speaker 2: to be. I mean, it's so funny because like we

1074
01:03:01,480 --> 01:03:04,160
Speaker 2: were talking about, there's all of these things that we

1075
01:03:04,200 --> 01:03:07,160
Speaker 2: have repeatedly been like ugh, this again, but it just

1076
01:03:07,240 --> 01:03:09,520
Speaker 2: works for me. In this movie because there has never

1077
01:03:09,560 --> 01:03:12,560
Speaker 2: been a more patriarchy the guy than this Dennis Quaide character. Right,

1078
01:03:13,000 --> 01:03:16,160
Speaker 2: Like he literally is like smile, smile, or my god,

1079
01:03:16,200 --> 01:03:18,760
Speaker 2: I did laugh when he was like feathers, feathers, feathers.

1080
01:03:18,840 --> 01:03:23,200
Speaker 2: You're like, what the fuck? I hate that he's evil,

1081
01:03:23,240 --> 01:03:25,760
Speaker 2: but he did slay this, and like, I don't know,

1082
01:03:25,880 --> 01:03:28,200
Speaker 2: two things need to be true for a second, but yeah,

1083
01:03:28,240 --> 01:03:30,800
Speaker 2: I mean, he's a patriarchy the guy character. But I

1084
01:03:30,800 --> 01:03:32,840
Speaker 2: guess it's like you'll either kind of like this or not.

1085
01:03:33,000 --> 01:03:36,120
Speaker 2: But like all of the characters we see are kind

1086
01:03:36,120 --> 01:03:40,440
Speaker 2: of broad types. We see different types of guys, you know,

1087
01:03:40,640 --> 01:03:43,680
Speaker 2: none of them are narratively specific. We don't know very

1088
01:03:43,800 --> 01:03:48,360
Speaker 2: much about Elizabeth. We don't know. Something I actually really appreciated,

1089
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:50,520
Speaker 2: and I'll go back to, like the murkier stuff that

1090
01:03:50,600 --> 01:03:54,000
Speaker 2: I feel like is likely tied to Corey as a

1091
01:03:54,040 --> 01:03:58,960
Speaker 2: person is that there is not a lot made of

1092
01:03:59,520 --> 01:04:02,080
Speaker 2: I think that a lesser version of this movie would

1093
01:04:02,120 --> 01:04:05,640
Speaker 2: be defined by regret for like the right things she

1094
01:04:05,680 --> 01:04:08,800
Speaker 2: didn't do, like get married and have kids. That is

1095
01:04:08,840 --> 01:04:11,720
Speaker 2: not a fixation of this movie. And I think a

1096
01:04:11,800 --> 01:04:17,000
Speaker 2: lesser movie would have so mommified a cis woman that

1097
01:04:17,480 --> 01:04:20,760
Speaker 2: they wouldn't be able to help themselves, but because this

1098
01:04:20,840 --> 01:04:23,400
Speaker 2: is a battle with herself, Like the most important and

1099
01:04:23,560 --> 01:04:27,440
Speaker 2: defining thing in Elizabeth's life was her career, which is

1100
01:04:27,480 --> 01:04:31,080
Speaker 2: also a toxic thing when your career is conditioned to

1101
01:04:31,360 --> 01:04:33,840
Speaker 2: dispose of you when you had a certain age. You know.

1102
01:04:34,040 --> 01:04:36,520
Speaker 2: Other things that we criticize all the time that this

1103
01:04:36,560 --> 01:04:40,600
Speaker 2: movie does is Elizabeth doesn't have any friends. She doesn't

1104
01:04:40,640 --> 01:04:43,440
Speaker 2: have friends or a support system. But if that changes,

1105
01:04:43,480 --> 01:04:45,560
Speaker 2: it's a different movie. And again it's like, I feel

1106
01:04:45,560 --> 01:04:49,880
Speaker 2: like this movie is just showing how she feels versus

1107
01:04:50,360 --> 01:04:53,560
Speaker 2: what the world really is, because everyone, like the men

1108
01:04:53,600 --> 01:04:57,440
Speaker 2: in this movie are awful, and men can be that awful,

1109
01:04:58,080 --> 01:05:01,360
Speaker 2: but there is like the fish eye lens, like it's

1110
01:05:01,400 --> 01:05:05,200
Speaker 2: like a heightened version of that awful and being in

1111
01:05:05,280 --> 01:05:08,880
Speaker 2: Elizabeth's position would likely be lonely. It probably wouldn't be

1112
01:05:09,080 --> 01:05:11,880
Speaker 2: that lonely, but it's all like turned up and it

1113
01:05:12,000 --> 01:05:14,360
Speaker 2: just kind of I don't know, like I even though

1114
01:05:14,400 --> 01:05:16,360
Speaker 2: this movies doing a lot of things that I've criticized

1115
01:05:16,360 --> 01:05:19,080
Speaker 2: a million times, it just makes sense in this world

1116
01:05:19,160 --> 01:05:19,480
Speaker 2: to me.

1117
01:05:19,960 --> 01:05:23,479
Speaker 1: Because it is a very heightened reality, even though it's

1118
01:05:24,040 --> 01:05:29,080
Speaker 1: reflective of patriarchy and agism and different things that very

1119
01:05:29,160 --> 01:05:33,640
Speaker 1: much exist systemically in the world. This is still a

1120
01:05:33,720 --> 01:05:38,440
Speaker 1: very like heightened story. Of course, if Elizabeth did have friends,

1121
01:05:38,960 --> 01:05:41,480
Speaker 1: she probably wouldn't have sought out the substance because they

1122
01:05:41,480 --> 01:05:45,120
Speaker 1: would just like get together for like brunches and wine nights,

1123
01:05:45,480 --> 01:05:48,800
Speaker 1: and they could have been like ha ha, aging is

1124
01:05:49,280 --> 01:05:51,880
Speaker 1: it's hard, but we're getting through it, you know, Like

1125
01:05:51,960 --> 01:05:54,840
Speaker 1: they would have had each other to like bounce off

1126
01:05:54,880 --> 01:05:58,520
Speaker 1: of and support each other and like validate each other

1127
01:05:58,680 --> 01:05:59,880
Speaker 1: and value each other.

1128
01:06:00,240 --> 01:06:03,200
Speaker 2: But she lacks that supports us, and it's like it's sad.

1129
01:06:03,400 --> 01:06:05,840
Speaker 2: And even though it's like that is not again, it's

1130
01:06:05,880 --> 01:06:08,920
Speaker 2: like Elizabeth Sparkle is not a feminist icon, but that

1131
01:06:08,960 --> 01:06:11,760
Speaker 2: doesn't make her a bad person or a bad character, right,

1132
01:06:11,800 --> 01:06:14,360
Speaker 2: It's like she's very much a product of her environment.

1133
01:06:15,960 --> 01:06:18,600
Speaker 2: There are moments where it's like, I mean, I guess again,

1134
01:06:18,640 --> 01:06:22,920
Speaker 2: I've seen moments in her character characterized by other critics

1135
01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:26,480
Speaker 2: as like you pity her, But I don't really pity

1136
01:06:26,760 --> 01:06:28,680
Speaker 2: her because there's like a part of me that really

1137
01:06:28,880 --> 01:06:32,240
Speaker 2: connects with her where it's just a heightened version. And

1138
01:06:32,600 --> 01:06:34,600
Speaker 2: this is why I'm sort of like when I was

1139
01:06:34,720 --> 01:06:37,400
Speaker 2: like exploring, oh, sort of a wide age range of

1140
01:06:37,480 --> 01:06:41,320
Speaker 2: critics that I feel like most women, even women over thirty,

1141
01:06:42,080 --> 01:06:45,240
Speaker 2: seem to be like no, I understand how that feels,

1142
01:06:45,880 --> 01:06:49,240
Speaker 2: and the feeling that like you're no longer young enough

1143
01:06:49,320 --> 01:06:53,520
Speaker 2: to start something or be viewed as valued, or you know,

1144
01:06:53,640 --> 01:06:56,720
Speaker 2: the whole shedding that I remember, like the first time

1145
01:06:56,760 --> 01:06:59,000
Speaker 2: I wasn't the youngest person in a writer's room and

1146
01:06:59,040 --> 01:07:02,160
Speaker 2: it like weirdly me where I was like, I'm cooked,

1147
01:07:02,280 --> 01:07:04,960
Speaker 2: I'm fucked. You're just like because you're not like the

1148
01:07:05,120 --> 01:07:09,120
Speaker 2: cool young girl, and like there's a younger girl and

1149
01:07:09,160 --> 01:07:12,520
Speaker 2: the answer is talk to her. She probably needs to

1150
01:07:12,600 --> 01:07:14,480
Speaker 2: have an ally in this room. And then I come

1151
01:07:14,520 --> 01:07:17,120
Speaker 2: friends and it's fine, but like that is a complicated,

1152
01:07:17,160 --> 01:07:20,800
Speaker 2: weird set of emotions to to navigate and it's okay

1153
01:07:20,800 --> 01:07:22,400
Speaker 2: that she's fucking off.

1154
01:07:22,480 --> 01:07:26,160
Speaker 1: I don't know right, I mean again, I found myself

1155
01:07:26,320 --> 01:07:32,760
Speaker 1: very much connecting to Elizabeth and sometimes to Sue, but

1156
01:07:32,960 --> 01:07:38,720
Speaker 1: mostly Elizabeth, where you know, I'm pushing forty and I'm

1157
01:07:38,760 --> 01:07:44,080
Speaker 1: always like, oh, why didn't me, as younger person stretch more?

1158
01:07:44,120 --> 01:07:47,400
Speaker 1: Because now I'm so inflexible and I can't touch my

1159
01:07:47,480 --> 01:07:50,240
Speaker 1: toes and I'm so stiff all the time, and did it?

1160
01:07:50,280 --> 01:07:52,720
Speaker 1: And why didn't my younger self do this or this

1161
01:07:52,880 --> 01:07:57,280
Speaker 1: or that? And I just like find myself resenting my

1162
01:07:57,960 --> 01:08:01,560
Speaker 1: younger self as I get old, and so I relate

1163
01:08:01,760 --> 01:08:06,000
Speaker 1: to Elizabeth's resentment of Sue. But also I'm just like, well,

1164
01:08:06,040 --> 01:08:09,280
Speaker 1: I could start stretching now, and then that's what I'm

1165
01:08:09,320 --> 01:08:10,960
Speaker 1: trying to do anyway.

1166
01:08:11,680 --> 01:08:13,840
Speaker 2: Right, there's yeah, because there's I think I'm like I

1167
01:08:13,880 --> 01:08:16,240
Speaker 2: was struggling in the first watch of this, but then yeah,

1168
01:08:16,240 --> 01:08:19,240
Speaker 2: as it becomes clearer that like Sue is a part

1169
01:08:19,479 --> 01:08:23,720
Speaker 2: of Elizabeth, the memories think like you, you've reformed me.

1170
01:08:23,760 --> 01:08:26,080
Speaker 2: I need to watch it for a fourth time. But

1171
01:08:26,160 --> 01:08:28,040
Speaker 2: that like they are a part of each other. So

1172
01:08:28,120 --> 01:08:30,439
Speaker 2: it's it doesn't We haven't been led to believe that

1173
01:08:30,479 --> 01:08:36,320
Speaker 2: Elizabeth has a history of being violently hateful of younger women.

1174
01:08:36,400 --> 01:08:38,400
Speaker 2: We don't know much about her, but I feel like

1175
01:08:38,479 --> 01:08:40,880
Speaker 2: we it would be indicated in the way she's treated

1176
01:08:40,880 --> 01:08:43,720
Speaker 2: by Dennis Quaid. She's treated by Dennis Quaid as like

1177
01:08:44,000 --> 01:08:48,639
Speaker 2: a subservient person, like appliable again, which like ties into

1178
01:08:48,680 --> 01:08:51,280
Speaker 2: the whole characteristic of like she does what she's told,

1179
01:08:51,600 --> 01:08:53,639
Speaker 2: she works out, she does the thing with her face,

1180
01:08:53,680 --> 01:08:56,040
Speaker 2: like she does everything she's supposed to do, and then

1181
01:08:56,120 --> 01:08:59,120
Speaker 2: she becomes literally a kind of like girl joker at

1182
01:08:59,160 --> 01:09:03,040
Speaker 2: the end, like when it's not enough, she joker fies fine,

1183
01:09:03,600 --> 01:09:06,280
Speaker 2: but it's like the reason that she's taking out violence

1184
01:09:06,280 --> 01:09:09,960
Speaker 2: on Sue is because Sue is her and I don't know,

1185
01:09:10,040 --> 01:09:12,280
Speaker 2: I guess a point that I guess couldn't really be

1186
01:09:12,320 --> 01:09:14,599
Speaker 2: made by the movie because these characters only meet once

1187
01:09:14,760 --> 01:09:18,519
Speaker 2: and try to kill each other. But it does seem

1188
01:09:18,560 --> 01:09:22,640
Speaker 2: like it's at least hinted at that, like Sue is

1189
01:09:22,880 --> 01:09:26,799
Speaker 2: valued more, but that doesn't necessarily mean that she feels

1190
01:09:26,920 --> 01:09:30,679
Speaker 2: more comfortable about it. There's moments of that where stuff

1191
01:09:30,720 --> 01:09:34,639
Speaker 2: like the chicken belly button moment, or like there's moments

1192
01:09:34,640 --> 01:09:37,360
Speaker 2: where Sue feels genuinely ill at ease. I think the

1193
01:09:37,400 --> 01:09:39,760
Speaker 2: move the part of the movie that makes me most uncomfortable,

1194
01:09:39,880 --> 01:09:42,240
Speaker 2: Like the shrimp scene is brutal, but the scene at

1195
01:09:42,280 --> 01:09:45,040
Speaker 2: the end where Sue it just felt like a bad

1196
01:09:45,479 --> 01:09:48,479
Speaker 2: like again a bad dream, or like the feeling of

1197
01:09:48,479 --> 01:09:52,000
Speaker 2: being too drunk in public where everything like her teeth

1198
01:09:52,000 --> 01:09:54,200
Speaker 2: are falling out and she's like completely freaking out. But

1199
01:09:54,240 --> 01:09:55,920
Speaker 2: she's like I just need to get out of this

1200
01:09:56,000 --> 01:09:59,679
Speaker 2: building with everyone thinking I'm normal or yeah, like whatever,

1201
01:10:00,040 --> 01:10:02,559
Speaker 2: smoking too much weed or like whatever it was like,

1202
01:10:02,920 --> 01:10:05,320
Speaker 2: and just feeling like you are. You are the most

1203
01:10:05,320 --> 01:10:07,960
Speaker 2: fucked up person that's ever existed, but you just need

1204
01:10:08,240 --> 01:10:10,800
Speaker 2: this weird random man you don't know to think that

1205
01:10:10,880 --> 01:10:16,800
Speaker 2: you're normal. I just like, really that really hit for me. Yeah, yeah, I.

1206
01:10:16,760 --> 01:10:19,160
Speaker 1: Want to go back to talking about the men in

1207
01:10:19,200 --> 01:10:23,120
Speaker 1: this movie while fainest of me, but while we're on Sue,

1208
01:10:23,840 --> 01:10:25,920
Speaker 1: something that you very much noticed when you're watching this

1209
01:10:25,960 --> 01:10:29,760
Speaker 1: movie is all of the like lingering shots of a

1210
01:10:29,800 --> 01:10:33,560
Speaker 1: woman's butt or breasts or just like you know, disembodied

1211
01:10:33,640 --> 01:10:36,120
Speaker 1: body parts. That again another thing that we tend to

1212
01:10:36,160 --> 01:10:42,280
Speaker 1: criticize because that is like generally male gaze cinematography. But

1213
01:10:42,400 --> 01:10:44,320
Speaker 1: the way we see it in this movie, or like

1214
01:10:44,360 --> 01:10:48,760
Speaker 1: the way it's framed, or I feel like the implications

1215
01:10:48,800 --> 01:10:51,479
Speaker 1: it has is quite different than what we're used to

1216
01:10:51,520 --> 01:10:55,200
Speaker 1: seeing when we see this type of imagery because it's

1217
01:10:55,240 --> 01:11:00,800
Speaker 1: almost exclusively at the beginning of Sue's arc. We see

1218
01:11:00,840 --> 01:11:04,200
Speaker 1: her and she's new, and she's young, and she's shiny,

1219
01:11:04,280 --> 01:11:07,519
Speaker 1: and she's oozing sex appeal. There's like a part where

1220
01:11:07,560 --> 01:11:10,920
Speaker 1: she cracks open a can of diet coke and drinks

1221
01:11:10,960 --> 01:11:14,240
Speaker 1: it and it's shot like a commercial. It's like the

1222
01:11:14,280 --> 01:11:18,879
Speaker 1: way that like marketing will manipulate people with like sexy

1223
01:11:18,920 --> 01:11:21,559
Speaker 1: imagery to trick you into buying stuff because it's and

1224
01:11:21,600 --> 01:11:25,080
Speaker 1: it's all like fake and false. And I think the

1225
01:11:25,120 --> 01:11:28,400
Speaker 1: idea is just like, yeah, we're seeing all this, like

1226
01:11:28,600 --> 01:11:32,880
Speaker 1: you know, disembodied body parts and butts and titties and everything,

1227
01:11:33,000 --> 01:11:39,640
Speaker 1: but it's in the context of this woman who is

1228
01:11:39,800 --> 01:11:45,719
Speaker 1: valued specifically for those things because she's young and has

1229
01:11:45,520 --> 01:11:51,200
Speaker 1: this taut round buttocks again a lah Shrek too. That

1230
01:11:52,120 --> 01:11:56,880
Speaker 1: it feels different than the like male gay cinematography from

1231
01:11:56,920 --> 01:12:01,560
Speaker 1: a movie like whatever Transformers. When we're aggling Megan Fox's

1232
01:12:01,600 --> 01:12:05,720
Speaker 1: body as she's like bending over a car and like

1233
01:12:05,800 --> 01:12:09,280
Speaker 1: basically having sex with the car. It's not the context

1234
01:12:09,360 --> 01:12:11,760
Speaker 1: isn't the same, the implications aren't the same. I think

1235
01:12:11,800 --> 01:12:16,000
Speaker 1: you could still maybe criticize the cinematography of this movie, but.

1236
01:12:16,160 --> 01:12:20,000
Speaker 2: I understand why this would be up for like why

1237
01:12:20,040 --> 01:12:24,040
Speaker 2: this would cross a line of like satire into exploitation. Yeah,

1238
01:12:24,080 --> 01:12:26,599
Speaker 2: like I can see that. I don't it doesn't bug

1239
01:12:26,640 --> 01:12:29,120
Speaker 2: me as much. I think if I liked the movie less.

1240
01:12:29,240 --> 01:12:30,880
Speaker 2: I would lean more into that.

1241
01:12:31,120 --> 01:12:35,360
Speaker 1: Read right, but they're saying something with this type of

1242
01:12:35,400 --> 01:12:39,679
Speaker 1: cinematography in this movie, what exactly are they saying. I'm

1243
01:12:39,760 --> 01:12:41,240
Speaker 1: still working on it.

1244
01:12:41,960 --> 01:12:44,439
Speaker 2: Yeah, I think cinematography is one of the few things

1245
01:12:44,479 --> 01:12:47,960
Speaker 2: that I could be swayed into being like, Nah, that

1246
01:12:48,080 --> 01:12:48,960
Speaker 2: wasn't great.

1247
01:12:48,960 --> 01:12:52,160
Speaker 1: That wasn't necessary. Yeah, I feel like it's trying to

1248
01:12:52,200 --> 01:12:57,120
Speaker 1: emphasize yeah, like this is what society is conditioning people

1249
01:12:57,200 --> 01:13:02,000
Speaker 1: to value about young women and their bodies and their sexuality.

1250
01:13:02,680 --> 01:13:05,880
Speaker 1: But that cinematography goes away as the movie goes on.

1251
01:13:06,720 --> 01:13:10,160
Speaker 1: I'm still processing it. Listeners are curious what you think

1252
01:13:10,200 --> 01:13:12,000
Speaker 1: about it, but I was just like.

1253
01:13:12,040 --> 01:13:14,800
Speaker 2: Yeah, I could definitely see different intern I also felt

1254
01:13:14,880 --> 01:13:18,479
Speaker 2: like so much of this it feels like corally doing

1255
01:13:18,520 --> 01:13:22,479
Speaker 2: sort of like an inside joke of like because it's

1256
01:13:22,520 --> 01:13:26,479
Speaker 2: so over the top, because the movie is funny, just

1257
01:13:26,640 --> 01:13:28,240
Speaker 2: not for a lot of the reasons that the men

1258
01:13:28,240 --> 01:13:30,280
Speaker 2: in the room thought it was funny, which is why

1259
01:13:30,360 --> 01:13:35,160
Speaker 2: I have sought out really no men's opinions on this movie.

1260
01:13:35,320 --> 01:13:38,040
Speaker 2: But it does feel like a sort of like a

1261
01:13:38,080 --> 01:13:41,880
Speaker 2: winky kind of reference to all the ways we've seen

1262
01:13:41,960 --> 01:13:45,160
Speaker 2: women portrayed over the years. I can see how that

1263
01:13:45,720 --> 01:13:48,360
Speaker 2: still might not work for some people, but it didn't

1264
01:13:48,360 --> 01:13:51,280
Speaker 2: bother me. I did think it was interesting that she

1265
01:13:51,400 --> 01:13:54,680
Speaker 2: says in the production short that she found this is

1266
01:13:54,960 --> 01:13:59,599
Speaker 2: a male cinematographer, Benjamin Kracken, pretty cool name. She saw

1267
01:13:59,640 --> 01:14:02,679
Speaker 2: his work. He was the cinematographer for Promising Young Women.

1268
01:14:03,120 --> 01:14:06,000
Speaker 2: Oh yes, yes, a movie that has aged weirdly. I

1269
01:14:06,080 --> 01:14:08,680
Speaker 2: kind of want to redo that episode. But yeah, it

1270
01:14:08,720 --> 01:14:10,880
Speaker 2: wasn't my favorite element of the movie by a long shot.

1271
01:14:10,920 --> 01:14:12,840
Speaker 2: But m hmm. I mean I liked more of the

1272
01:14:12,960 --> 01:14:17,360
Speaker 2: like experimental fun, like the helmet shots and like the

1273
01:14:17,400 --> 01:14:19,160
Speaker 2: bloodshot with the metal music.

1274
01:14:19,320 --> 01:14:24,639
Speaker 1: I'm like, again, technically this movie is great. There's awesome editing, awesome. Yeah,

1275
01:14:24,720 --> 01:14:28,080
Speaker 1: I'm just like, I think there's probably like strong intentionality

1276
01:14:28,160 --> 01:14:32,160
Speaker 1: behind these like male gayzy type shots. But what exactly

1277
01:14:32,200 --> 01:14:35,840
Speaker 1: is it? Going back to the men, Yeah, we do

1278
01:14:35,920 --> 01:14:41,400
Speaker 1: have a very like patriarchy the guy type in Harvey

1279
01:14:41,479 --> 01:14:43,600
Speaker 1: in a way that feels appropriate because again, this is

1280
01:14:43,600 --> 01:14:44,599
Speaker 1: so heightened, it.

1281
01:14:44,600 --> 01:14:46,120
Speaker 2: Just feels intentional enough.

1282
01:14:46,280 --> 01:14:49,000
Speaker 1: It feels very intenseing, right, But then you have other

1283
01:14:49,240 --> 01:14:51,599
Speaker 1: guys that are like because in many movies we see

1284
01:14:51,600 --> 01:14:54,479
Speaker 1: like just the one patriarchy. The guy in this movie,

1285
01:14:54,479 --> 01:14:56,560
Speaker 1: it's like patriarchy.

1286
01:14:56,640 --> 01:15:01,760
Speaker 2: All the guys like there's something and they're like different facets, right,

1287
01:15:01,840 --> 01:15:04,920
Speaker 2: Like for example, the Fred guy, the person she knew

1288
01:15:04,920 --> 01:15:07,080
Speaker 2: from high school, he says something like.

1289
01:15:07,320 --> 01:15:09,479
Speaker 1: Well, now that we're reconnected, we can go out for

1290
01:15:09,520 --> 01:15:12,280
Speaker 1: a drink. Meanwhile, they spent one second talking to each other,

1291
01:15:12,280 --> 01:15:16,439
Speaker 1: but he thinks that like they've reconnected and that he's

1292
01:15:16,600 --> 01:15:19,639
Speaker 1: entitled to her time now. And you know, he seems

1293
01:15:19,680 --> 01:15:21,280
Speaker 1: like a quote unquote nice guy.

1294
01:15:21,680 --> 01:15:22,920
Speaker 2: But he's what does that mean?

1295
01:15:23,160 --> 01:15:25,360
Speaker 1: But he's not treating her like a person. He's like

1296
01:15:25,400 --> 01:15:29,439
Speaker 1: putting her on a pedestal. He is like not acting

1297
01:15:29,479 --> 01:15:31,839
Speaker 1: as though she's an actual, like equal to him.

1298
01:15:31,960 --> 01:15:35,360
Speaker 2: And Fred really quickly. Again, that's like it felt like

1299
01:15:35,400 --> 01:15:38,439
Speaker 2: another like layered decision to have her, because she set

1300
01:15:38,520 --> 01:15:41,160
Speaker 2: the boundary in the moment she's like okay, you know,

1301
01:15:41,280 --> 01:15:43,839
Speaker 2: and like she's like give me your card but intentionally

1302
01:15:43,920 --> 01:15:46,800
Speaker 2: doesn't share her contact info. Yeah, but again, I just

1303
01:15:46,880 --> 01:15:49,719
Speaker 2: thought it was like a really kind of like sad

1304
01:15:49,800 --> 01:15:53,120
Speaker 2: but understandable moment where it's like the way that she's

1305
01:15:53,120 --> 01:15:56,719
Speaker 2: been conditioned to feel is like being objectified, is being seen.

1306
01:15:57,920 --> 01:16:01,360
Speaker 2: So it's almost like, well, it almost like this movie

1307
01:16:01,400 --> 01:16:03,240
Speaker 2: auberates on the assumption that there could not be a

1308
01:16:03,240 --> 01:16:05,160
Speaker 2: man who would respect her and see her for her

1309
01:16:05,520 --> 01:16:08,200
Speaker 2: who she is, which is quite sad, and that she's

1310
01:16:08,240 --> 01:16:10,879
Speaker 2: like I just need to be like perceived by somebody,

1311
01:16:10,920 --> 01:16:13,000
Speaker 2: and that's why she reaches out to him versus like

1312
01:16:13,600 --> 01:16:15,920
Speaker 2: this guy's gonna be great for my life. It's just

1313
01:16:15,920 --> 01:16:17,880
Speaker 2: like I just need to be seen for like fucking

1314
01:16:18,040 --> 01:16:19,519
Speaker 2: three hours. Right.

1315
01:16:19,640 --> 01:16:21,800
Speaker 1: I didn't read it as like, oh, this is going

1316
01:16:21,840 --> 01:16:24,960
Speaker 1: to be a potential romantic partner for her. It was

1317
01:16:25,040 --> 01:16:28,639
Speaker 1: just that she needed some kind of validation from someone

1318
01:16:28,680 --> 01:16:31,599
Speaker 1: who wouldn't be outwardly cruel to her.

1319
01:16:32,120 --> 01:16:35,240
Speaker 2: And that's like, you know, sometimes you need that.

1320
01:16:36,200 --> 01:16:37,000
Speaker 1: Look, I've done it.

1321
01:16:37,080 --> 01:16:40,000
Speaker 2: Sometimes you just need to be viewed for a couple

1322
01:16:40,080 --> 01:16:42,960
Speaker 2: hours and they're awful and then you don't talk to

1323
01:16:43,040 --> 01:16:43,559
Speaker 2: him anymore.

1324
01:16:43,960 --> 01:16:49,679
Speaker 1: Hmm. So there's his version of patriarchy. There are, of course,

1325
01:16:49,720 --> 01:16:55,160
Speaker 1: like the casting agent guys who are only viewing women

1326
01:16:55,360 --> 01:17:03,040
Speaker 1: as like objects and bodies and not actual people. There's

1327
01:17:03,160 --> 01:17:08,439
Speaker 1: the neighbor guy, Oliver, who is furious when he thinks

1328
01:17:08,479 --> 01:17:12,120
Speaker 1: that Elizabeth is making noise because she's old and growth,

1329
01:17:12,479 --> 01:17:15,599
Speaker 1: but when it's a beautiful young woman who will.

1330
01:17:15,400 --> 01:17:18,160
Speaker 2: Making noise this cool sexy thing that they're all the

1331
01:17:18,320 --> 01:17:23,760
Speaker 2: kids are. Yeah, that's like they're all a unique flavor

1332
01:17:23,960 --> 01:17:27,360
Speaker 2: of growth that is recognizable. I guess like if this

1333
01:17:27,560 --> 01:17:30,120
Speaker 2: was a different movie, and this isn't even a criticism

1334
01:17:30,160 --> 01:17:32,080
Speaker 2: of this movie, I do think it would would have

1335
01:17:32,120 --> 01:17:37,680
Speaker 2: been interesting to see women who are complicit in reinforcing

1336
01:17:37,720 --> 01:17:40,800
Speaker 2: these standards. That's something that I actually do think that

1337
01:17:40,880 --> 01:17:44,120
Speaker 2: promising young woman does relatively well. Was like with the

1338
01:17:44,240 --> 01:17:47,120
Speaker 2: Dean character being like, yeah, I don't care because that

1339
01:17:47,120 --> 01:17:50,559
Speaker 2: puts my job at risk if I, you know, take

1340
01:17:50,680 --> 01:17:54,280
Speaker 2: your rape allegation seriously. And you know, I think there's

1341
01:17:54,280 --> 01:17:57,080
Speaker 2: certainly room for that, but I don't know, it's just

1342
01:17:57,080 --> 01:18:00,479
Speaker 2: hard to argue with how effective that Like, it's this

1343
01:18:00,520 --> 01:18:03,200
Speaker 2: is not a movie for nuance. I don't know.

1344
01:18:04,560 --> 01:18:06,599
Speaker 1: Yeah. The last thing I wanted to do was just

1345
01:18:06,640 --> 01:18:12,040
Speaker 1: like share a couple more quotes from Corley Farja. I

1346
01:18:12,040 --> 01:18:14,559
Speaker 1: hope I'm saying her name right, We're saying it different.

1347
01:18:14,560 --> 01:18:16,320
Speaker 2: I don't know, I don't know, the.

1348
01:18:16,320 --> 01:18:19,720
Speaker 1: Friends, we don't know, we don't know French names. Just

1349
01:18:19,760 --> 01:18:22,400
Speaker 1: to share a little bit more about kind of like

1350
01:18:22,560 --> 01:18:24,640
Speaker 1: where she was and how she was feeling when she

1351
01:18:24,720 --> 01:18:28,839
Speaker 1: was writing this movie. So that same off screen Central

1352
01:18:28,960 --> 01:18:32,639
Speaker 1: interview that I quoted earlier, when the interviewer asked her

1353
01:18:32,760 --> 01:18:37,400
Speaker 1: what inspired her to start writing the screenplay, Coraley said, quote,

1354
01:18:38,400 --> 01:18:40,840
Speaker 1: really what I had felt my whole life about how

1355
01:18:41,080 --> 01:18:43,519
Speaker 1: I had lived within my body, how I had been

1356
01:18:43,600 --> 01:18:46,439
Speaker 1: led to constantly judge it in a negative way, how

1357
01:18:46,479 --> 01:18:48,840
Speaker 1: I had been led to torture it in many ways to

1358
01:18:49,000 --> 01:18:52,240
Speaker 1: try and make it look perfect with the beauty standards

1359
01:18:52,280 --> 01:18:56,280
Speaker 1: that were presented to me as being the only valuable option.

1360
01:18:56,560 --> 01:18:59,000
Speaker 1: And I think at every age I kind of fought

1361
01:18:59,000 --> 01:19:01,280
Speaker 1: with something that I didn't like or that I felt

1362
01:19:01,320 --> 01:19:04,720
Speaker 1: embarrassed with, until recently, when I passed my forties and

1363
01:19:05,000 --> 01:19:08,240
Speaker 1: was going towards my fifties, where I started really to

1364
01:19:08,880 --> 01:19:12,160
Speaker 1: have those violent thoughts like now it's over for me,

1365
01:19:12,600 --> 01:19:15,439
Speaker 1: Like I'm not gonna be interesting to anyone, I'm not

1366
01:19:15,520 --> 01:19:19,000
Speaker 1: gonna have an existence again. Like it was like so

1367
01:19:19,200 --> 01:19:21,960
Speaker 1: violent that I decided it was the right time for

1368
01:19:22,000 --> 01:19:24,800
Speaker 1: me to do something about all this, which I think

1369
01:19:24,920 --> 01:19:27,640
Speaker 1: has strongly shaped my relationship to the world, and I

1370
01:19:27,680 --> 01:19:29,960
Speaker 1: believe it's the same for many women. And I wanted

1371
01:19:30,000 --> 01:19:34,000
Speaker 1: to really free myself from this or at least let

1372
01:19:34,000 --> 01:19:37,560
Speaker 1: it out, like throw it out somewhere in an undelicate,

1373
01:19:37,760 --> 01:19:42,320
Speaker 1: no control, not nice, not gentle way, which I think

1374
01:19:42,600 --> 01:19:45,439
Speaker 1: is the kind of opposite of where we are kind

1375
01:19:45,439 --> 01:19:48,960
Speaker 1: of asked to be unquote. So yeah, this is just

1376
01:19:49,040 --> 01:19:53,920
Speaker 1: like just how she has felt about herself informing this story.

1377
01:19:54,840 --> 01:19:58,000
Speaker 1: Why she went with Body Horror is basically an act

1378
01:19:58,000 --> 01:20:00,240
Speaker 1: of defiance of like, oh, you want me to have

1379
01:20:00,280 --> 01:20:02,839
Speaker 1: this perfect body and you want me to be delicate

1380
01:20:02,920 --> 01:20:04,680
Speaker 1: and gentle and da da da, Well no, I'm going

1381
01:20:04,760 --> 01:20:08,160
Speaker 1: to tell this story in a very violent way because

1382
01:20:08,160 --> 01:20:12,280
Speaker 1: that's the opposite of what society expects of me as

1383
01:20:12,320 --> 01:20:15,320
Speaker 1: a woman. So I just wanted to share that extra

1384
01:20:15,400 --> 01:20:19,559
Speaker 1: context because I think, you know, the criticisms people might

1385
01:20:19,600 --> 01:20:23,479
Speaker 1: have about this movie fair, But I do appreciate, as

1386
01:20:23,479 --> 01:20:27,600
Speaker 1: we've said, that this is a different version of like

1387
01:20:28,160 --> 01:20:32,120
Speaker 1: quote unquote hag woman as horror, but coming from a

1388
01:20:32,200 --> 01:20:39,519
Speaker 1: very different perspective, coming from like experiential context, and it

1389
01:20:39,720 --> 01:20:42,720
Speaker 1: made for a really enjoyable movie for me the end.

1390
01:20:43,280 --> 01:20:46,400
Speaker 2: I agree. I agree, Yeah, I think that like a

1391
01:20:46,439 --> 01:20:49,960
Speaker 2: lot of the reads of the movie, and again, it's like,

1392
01:20:49,960 --> 01:20:51,360
Speaker 2: if you don't like you don't like it. Also, not

1393
01:20:51,400 --> 01:20:55,840
Speaker 2: everybody likes body horror. But most of the questions that

1394
01:20:55,920 --> 01:20:59,840
Speaker 2: I had about where the movie is coming from, I mean,

1395
01:21:00,200 --> 01:21:04,519
Speaker 2: have been pretty cogently answered by the writer director, So

1396
01:21:04,560 --> 01:21:07,360
Speaker 2: I don't really know where you could ask. And if

1397
01:21:07,360 --> 01:21:09,000
Speaker 2: you don't like you, you'll like it. If you don't

1398
01:21:09,080 --> 01:21:10,720
Speaker 2: like it, you're wrong. And if you do like it

1399
01:21:10,720 --> 01:21:13,800
Speaker 2: for the wrong reasons, I really hate you. I like,

1400
01:21:14,360 --> 01:21:16,920
Speaker 2: really left with a real bone to pick with some

1401
01:21:17,000 --> 01:21:19,680
Speaker 2: of those fucking neck beers in there, who you know,

1402
01:21:23,240 --> 01:21:24,240
Speaker 2: don't piss me off.

1403
01:21:25,120 --> 01:21:29,200
Speaker 1: Is there anything else you wanted to talk about recording

1404
01:21:29,240 --> 01:21:30,120
Speaker 1: the substance?

1405
01:21:30,840 --> 01:21:34,080
Speaker 2: No, I mean, I think it's worth mentioning. Although I

1406
01:21:34,160 --> 01:21:36,879
Speaker 2: know that if you've seen this movie, it's fairly obvious

1407
01:21:37,479 --> 01:21:39,760
Speaker 2: that while I think this movie has a lot to

1408
01:21:39,800 --> 01:21:45,880
Speaker 2: say about the standards that are applied to women specifically,

1409
01:21:46,160 --> 01:21:49,000
Speaker 2: this also appears to be like a pretty somewhat personal

1410
01:21:49,040 --> 01:21:53,920
Speaker 2: story from Coralie Farsha, and therefore it is not a

1411
01:21:53,960 --> 01:21:59,120
Speaker 2: particularly inclusive story. This is, while there are you know,

1412
01:21:59,240 --> 01:22:03,400
Speaker 2: over arch expectations of women, this is a story specifically

1413
01:22:03,439 --> 01:22:07,479
Speaker 2: about an aging white CIS woman, and everyone's version of

1414
01:22:07,479 --> 01:22:09,719
Speaker 2: this experience is going to be different. If you're listening

1415
01:22:09,760 --> 01:22:11,880
Speaker 2: to this show, you already know that, but it feels

1416
01:22:11,920 --> 01:22:14,840
Speaker 2: worth mentioning. But again, that's not even really a criticism

1417
01:22:15,040 --> 01:22:18,200
Speaker 2: of the movie, because one movie can't do everything, and

1418
01:22:18,320 --> 01:22:21,120
Speaker 2: I really appreciate that, like Coraley is pulling from her

1419
01:22:21,240 --> 01:22:26,200
Speaker 2: own anxieties about aging to make this. I feel like

1420
01:22:26,240 --> 01:22:30,360
Speaker 2: it's what makes the movie really good, because she also

1421
01:22:30,439 --> 01:22:32,799
Speaker 2: clearly has a good sense of humor about how fucked

1422
01:22:32,880 --> 01:22:36,799
Speaker 2: up this is, which is like just very refreshing and cool.

1423
01:22:37,160 --> 01:22:38,479
Speaker 2: But yeah, I think that was my last thing.

1424
01:22:39,280 --> 01:22:42,000
Speaker 1: The last thing I wanted to touch on real quick

1425
01:22:42,160 --> 01:22:44,400
Speaker 1: was a lot of people have pointed out the parallels

1426
01:22:44,400 --> 01:22:47,559
Speaker 1: between the substance and Death Becomes Her.

1427
01:22:48,040 --> 01:22:50,720
Speaker 2: Yeah I had not connected that, but totally.

1428
01:22:50,760 --> 01:22:53,160
Speaker 1: Probably other movies too, but I think that was the

1429
01:22:53,160 --> 01:22:55,479
Speaker 1: one that people were drawing a lot of comparisons to.

1430
01:22:56,040 --> 01:22:59,479
Speaker 1: And I find it interesting that the movies have a

1431
01:22:59,479 --> 01:23:02,160
Speaker 1: similar pres but they take on a very different tone

1432
01:23:02,320 --> 01:23:08,320
Speaker 1: where Death Becomes Her is like silly can't be fun vibes.

1433
01:23:08,920 --> 01:23:10,920
Speaker 1: I had a similar thought, and I want to see

1434
01:23:10,920 --> 01:23:15,200
Speaker 1: if this trend continues. But when I watched Anora, I

1435
01:23:15,320 --> 01:23:19,160
Speaker 1: was like, oh, this is this is similar in premise

1436
01:23:19,280 --> 01:23:21,720
Speaker 1: to for example, Pretty Woman.

1437
01:23:21,800 --> 01:23:24,400
Speaker 2: Right, which is like, that's very intentional.

1438
01:23:24,320 --> 01:23:27,360
Speaker 1: Right, yes, but it's like you know, from thirty years prior.

1439
01:23:27,439 --> 01:23:31,160
Speaker 1: And it also takes on a very different tone. And

1440
01:23:31,200 --> 01:23:32,960
Speaker 1: there was a third movie that I had this thought

1441
01:23:33,000 --> 01:23:35,639
Speaker 1: about that it came out within the past year or two,

1442
01:23:36,160 --> 01:23:38,439
Speaker 1: has a very similar premise to a movie from the

1443
01:23:38,479 --> 01:23:41,479
Speaker 1: eighties or nineties, but takes on a very different tone,

1444
01:23:41,520 --> 01:23:45,160
Speaker 1: like a darker, more cynical tone. I can't remember what

1445
01:23:45,200 --> 01:23:47,559
Speaker 1: the third movie I'm thinking of is, but I'm just

1446
01:23:47,560 --> 01:23:51,839
Speaker 1: curious to see if this trend continues where a familiar

1447
01:23:51,840 --> 01:23:58,639
Speaker 1: premise from the past gets kind of recontextualized and retoned almost, And.

1448
01:23:58,600 --> 01:24:00,680
Speaker 2: I'm like, I wonder how that's going. It really like

1449
01:24:00,720 --> 01:24:05,360
Speaker 2: depends on who's doing it, because I've only seen it once.

1450
01:24:05,479 --> 01:24:09,000
Speaker 2: But I liked Anora. I didn't love Anora, but I

1451
01:24:09,040 --> 01:24:11,639
Speaker 2: do like that how it's clearly in conversation with that

1452
01:24:11,920 --> 01:24:15,080
Speaker 2: movie and like a way that is still you know,

1453
01:24:15,160 --> 01:24:18,160
Speaker 2: not super punishing to watch. Yeah, I guess I didn't

1454
01:24:18,160 --> 01:24:20,639
Speaker 2: even think with Death Becomes Her. I've watched that movie

1455
01:24:20,800 --> 01:24:23,920
Speaker 2: somewhat recently. I watched it around Halloween because it just

1456
01:24:23,960 --> 01:24:24,800
Speaker 2: feels right.

1457
01:24:26,160 --> 01:24:27,000
Speaker 1: But for sure.

1458
01:24:27,479 --> 01:24:30,280
Speaker 2: Yeah, I watched that movie around Halloween, and I do.

1459
01:24:30,439 --> 01:24:34,080
Speaker 2: I feel like what is also like implied in Death

1460
01:24:34,080 --> 01:24:37,120
Speaker 2: Becomes Her is that the central conflict is also sort

1461
01:24:37,160 --> 01:24:40,400
Speaker 2: of around a man, whereas like around the women's relationship

1462
01:24:40,400 --> 01:24:42,799
Speaker 2: to each other, but there's also a central conflict around

1463
01:24:42,840 --> 01:24:46,240
Speaker 2: like who gets the piece of shit guy? And I

1464
01:24:46,320 --> 01:24:51,200
Speaker 2: appreciate that the substance has no interest in that, and

1465
01:24:51,240 --> 01:24:55,280
Speaker 2: there's just no uh nary a man in sight for

1466
01:24:55,439 --> 01:24:56,680
Speaker 2: longer than a minute or so.

1467
01:24:57,320 --> 01:24:57,639
Speaker 1: True.

1468
01:24:57,840 --> 01:25:01,080
Speaker 2: So yeah, no, that's that's super interesting. I also it's

1469
01:25:01,120 --> 01:25:04,799
Speaker 2: like two banger movies in completely different ways.

1470
01:25:05,160 --> 01:25:10,439
Speaker 1: Totally. Yes, just wanted to point that out. Yeah, does

1471
01:25:10,520 --> 01:25:13,519
Speaker 1: the substance pass the Bechdel test?

1472
01:25:13,880 --> 01:25:16,280
Speaker 2: Yeah it does, it does.

1473
01:25:17,040 --> 01:25:20,880
Speaker 1: A lot of the movie is Elizabeth by herself or

1474
01:25:21,000 --> 01:25:24,320
Speaker 1: Sue by herself. If they're interacting with someone, it is

1475
01:25:24,360 --> 01:25:25,439
Speaker 1: often a man.

1476
01:25:26,000 --> 01:25:29,320
Speaker 2: Or like talking to the other one well unconscious, which

1477
01:25:29,360 --> 01:25:33,080
Speaker 2: unfortunately cannot pass. But I thought that was a funny

1478
01:25:33,120 --> 01:25:35,280
Speaker 2: almost pass where it's like, well, there are two women

1479
01:25:35,320 --> 01:25:39,759
Speaker 2: in the room and the communication happening is important. However

1480
01:25:39,840 --> 01:25:42,639
Speaker 2: one is basically dead right now.

1481
01:25:42,479 --> 01:25:48,679
Speaker 1: Responding Yeah, the scene where they're fighting each other toward

1482
01:25:48,760 --> 01:25:51,559
Speaker 1: the end does pass the Bechdel test. I don't even

1483
01:25:51,560 --> 01:25:53,400
Speaker 1: think they really say much to each other, but I

1484
01:25:53,439 --> 01:25:57,040
Speaker 1: think them, you know, beating the shit out of each other,

1485
01:25:58,120 --> 01:26:00,000
Speaker 1: that's interaction, that's communication.

1486
01:26:00,200 --> 01:26:02,519
Speaker 2: Like, does it pass the Bechtels has if it's two

1487
01:26:03,280 --> 01:26:06,080
Speaker 2: halves of the same woman talking to.

1488
01:26:06,040 --> 01:26:07,200
Speaker 1: A yes it does.

1489
01:26:07,479 --> 01:26:11,400
Speaker 2: And spiritually this movie passes big time. But I agree,

1490
01:26:11,400 --> 01:26:14,920
Speaker 2: I think that it's like it's so often Elizabeth's talking

1491
01:26:14,920 --> 01:26:19,960
Speaker 2: to her self or making herself smaller to talk to

1492
01:26:20,200 --> 01:26:26,360
Speaker 2: a man, which spiritually passes. But it's not as clean

1493
01:26:26,360 --> 01:26:29,639
Speaker 2: a pass as you'd expect. But again, flawed metric. We've

1494
01:26:29,640 --> 01:26:31,200
Speaker 2: said it a million times. We'll say it again.

1495
01:26:31,479 --> 01:26:35,519
Speaker 1: You know it's not a flawed metric. Tell me, Caitlin, Well,

1496
01:26:35,560 --> 01:26:39,680
Speaker 1: it's the Bechtel cast nipple scale. It's perfectly metric that

1497
01:26:40,920 --> 01:26:44,280
Speaker 1: deserves no criticism whatsoever. No, and we won't be hearing

1498
01:26:44,320 --> 01:26:47,320
Speaker 1: any of course. It's the scale where we rate the

1499
01:26:47,360 --> 01:26:51,800
Speaker 1: movie zero two five nipples based on examining it through

1500
01:26:51,880 --> 01:26:55,800
Speaker 1: an intersectional feminist lens who. Okay, I would say that

1501
01:26:56,040 --> 01:26:58,800
Speaker 1: even though this movie does a lot of the things

1502
01:26:58,800 --> 01:27:02,320
Speaker 1: that we have criticized on the podcast in the past,

1503
01:27:03,280 --> 01:27:05,599
Speaker 1: and if those things put you off from the movie

1504
01:27:05,880 --> 01:27:08,960
Speaker 1: like fair. I understand that totally.

1505
01:27:08,760 --> 01:27:10,960
Speaker 2: It's not a movie for everyone, and that's.

1506
01:27:10,800 --> 01:27:15,400
Speaker 1: Fine, and that's fine, but context is very important to consider,

1507
01:27:15,520 --> 01:27:20,519
Speaker 1: and in this case, the context and perspective narratively is

1508
01:27:20,920 --> 01:27:26,240
Speaker 1: a woman interrogating her own experience with aging and how

1509
01:27:26,400 --> 01:27:32,400
Speaker 1: society has made her feel about aging, and the commentary

1510
01:27:32,439 --> 01:27:36,599
Speaker 1: on how society values or does not value women based

1511
01:27:36,680 --> 01:27:39,400
Speaker 1: on their age. I feel like that is generally effective

1512
01:27:39,520 --> 01:27:44,519
Speaker 1: commentary that the movie presents. The movie is very funny,

1513
01:27:44,840 --> 01:27:47,559
Speaker 1: and I'm not even a big body horror person, but like,

1514
01:27:47,600 --> 01:27:50,600
Speaker 1: I was on board so happy.

1515
01:27:50,280 --> 01:27:52,080
Speaker 2: When you loved this movie. I was like, that means

1516
01:27:52,080 --> 01:27:54,720
Speaker 2: it's like good good, Because you're not always super on

1517
01:27:54,760 --> 01:27:57,040
Speaker 2: board with body war art. That's a I don't like

1518
01:27:57,080 --> 01:27:57,439
Speaker 2: it when.

1519
01:27:57,360 --> 01:27:59,559
Speaker 1: It's just there for the sake of being there, But

1520
01:27:59,600 --> 01:28:03,799
Speaker 1: if it's there with a function and a purpose, I'm

1521
01:28:04,200 --> 01:28:06,800
Speaker 1: fine with it. And it was to me serving a

1522
01:28:06,880 --> 01:28:11,160
Speaker 1: very effective function in this story. Yeah, as we mentioned earlier,

1523
01:28:11,200 --> 01:28:13,439
Speaker 1: I think there are aspects of this movie, especially much

1524
01:28:13,439 --> 01:28:16,080
Speaker 1: of what happens in the third act, that could be

1525
01:28:16,600 --> 01:28:18,400
Speaker 1: read as being quite ablest.

1526
01:28:19,280 --> 01:28:22,200
Speaker 2: And also if that is like a perspective that any

1527
01:28:22,240 --> 01:28:24,040
Speaker 2: of our listeners have we would we would love to

1528
01:28:24,040 --> 01:28:24,800
Speaker 2: hear more.

1529
01:28:25,320 --> 01:28:27,200
Speaker 1: Yeah, I wasn't able to find a whole lot of

1530
01:28:27,320 --> 01:28:30,320
Speaker 1: writing about that specifically. I saw like a few tweets

1531
01:28:30,360 --> 01:28:34,080
Speaker 1: to that effect, but not being yeah similar, So yeah,

1532
01:28:34,240 --> 01:28:37,479
Speaker 1: I'd like to hear other perspectives on it. But I

1533
01:28:37,479 --> 01:28:39,680
Speaker 1: think you could also maybe argue that there's a lot

1534
01:28:39,680 --> 01:28:42,200
Speaker 1: of like gratuitous nudity in the movie. But I also

1535
01:28:42,280 --> 01:28:44,519
Speaker 1: chalked that up to the director being French, and I

1536
01:28:44,560 --> 01:28:48,240
Speaker 1: was like, French people just aren't as pearl clutchy about

1537
01:28:48,320 --> 01:28:51,120
Speaker 1: nudity as my like prudish American brain.

1538
01:28:51,400 --> 01:28:53,640
Speaker 2: So and I did feel I mean, maybe this is

1539
01:28:53,680 --> 01:28:55,840
Speaker 2: me again making an excuse for a movie I like,

1540
01:28:55,920 --> 01:29:00,000
Speaker 2: which has happened before we've done it. But I agree

1541
01:29:00,080 --> 01:29:02,760
Speaker 2: that there are moments of gratuitous nudity. I feel like

1542
01:29:02,840 --> 01:29:08,080
Speaker 2: at least the intention was to comment on how gratuitous

1543
01:29:08,120 --> 01:29:11,240
Speaker 2: nudity is presented, even though you I think you also

1544
01:29:11,240 --> 01:29:13,599
Speaker 2: could argue that, like, aren't they just also doing it?

1545
01:29:13,960 --> 01:29:17,519
Speaker 2: And the answer is maybe. But I like this movie so.

1546
01:29:16,920 --> 01:29:20,320
Speaker 1: So whatever, so I don't care. There were so many

1547
01:29:20,320 --> 01:29:22,599
Speaker 1: parts though, where I was like, can't they just drape

1548
01:29:22,640 --> 01:29:26,320
Speaker 1: a blanket over their other version of themselves. Isn't it

1549
01:29:26,360 --> 01:29:31,519
Speaker 1: really cold and it's comfortable? They're all wild my bathroom floor.

1550
01:29:32,080 --> 01:29:34,840
Speaker 2: It is literally it awakens so many I have like

1551
01:29:34,920 --> 01:29:37,160
Speaker 2: such a fear of I mean, it's because it's so common,

1552
01:29:37,240 --> 01:29:39,400
Speaker 2: like slipping and falling in the back and like hitting

1553
01:29:39,400 --> 01:29:42,280
Speaker 2: your head on tile. Yeah, which is part of why

1554
01:29:42,320 --> 01:29:44,679
Speaker 2: that scene and oh my god, that scene in Titan

1555
01:29:44,720 --> 01:29:48,160
Speaker 2: where she breaks her nose, oh, the like. But dem

1556
01:29:48,479 --> 01:29:52,080
Speaker 2: and Margaret are like, like, I know that that's probably

1557
01:29:52,080 --> 01:29:54,679
Speaker 2: just an expression of like the self hatred shared between

1558
01:29:54,680 --> 01:29:57,760
Speaker 2: the two of them. But I know it's like tuck

1559
01:29:57,800 --> 01:30:00,559
Speaker 2: her in, like at least get like a little like hey,

1560
01:30:00,640 --> 01:30:05,240
Speaker 2: bail or something like I don't know something, Hey yeah,

1561
01:30:05,320 --> 01:30:06,679
Speaker 2: exactly hay bail.

1562
01:30:07,680 --> 01:30:10,719
Speaker 1: I was gonna say, like silk sheets and.

1563
01:30:11,000 --> 01:30:14,840
Speaker 2: An air mattress, like it's not asking the world no.

1564
01:30:16,040 --> 01:30:18,760
Speaker 1: But anyway, all this to say, I think I'll give

1565
01:30:18,800 --> 01:30:23,599
Speaker 1: the movie on the Caitlin's Rompometer scale ten out of ten.

1566
01:30:24,160 --> 01:30:27,599
Speaker 1: On the Nipple scale, I'm somewhere between like a three

1567
01:30:27,600 --> 01:30:31,240
Speaker 1: and a half and a four. I think I very

1568
01:30:31,320 --> 01:30:34,960
Speaker 1: much enjoy the movie. It is not free from criticism,

1569
01:30:35,080 --> 01:30:38,799
Speaker 1: I think again, various criticisms of this movie are very valid,

1570
01:30:39,479 --> 01:30:44,080
Speaker 1: But again, the commentary that it does provide I think

1571
01:30:44,240 --> 01:30:49,880
Speaker 1: is both effective and delivered in a really fun, enjoyable way. Yeah,

1572
01:30:49,960 --> 01:30:55,120
Speaker 1: and like the delivery method of commentary can often determine

1573
01:30:55,120 --> 01:30:59,920
Speaker 1: how effective it is. And when you're using comedy or

1574
01:31:00,080 --> 01:31:03,640
Speaker 1: satire or body horror, whatever the kind of tone and

1575
01:31:03,720 --> 01:31:06,960
Speaker 1: genre as a sort of delivery method for commentary, I

1576
01:31:06,960 --> 01:31:09,040
Speaker 1: think the movie does a really good job with that.

1577
01:31:09,320 --> 01:31:14,000
Speaker 1: So I'll say three point seventy five and I'll distribute

1578
01:31:14,040 --> 01:31:20,839
Speaker 1: my nipples among to me more Margaret Qualy, Corale Fargah

1579
01:31:21,360 --> 01:31:25,280
Speaker 1: and the Shrimps.

1580
01:31:27,439 --> 01:31:31,480
Speaker 2: I'm gonna go for on this, which might be recency bias,

1581
01:31:31,560 --> 01:31:33,160
Speaker 2: and if so, so be it.

1582
01:31:33,439 --> 01:31:35,320
Speaker 1: That's life baby, That's life baby.

1583
01:31:35,360 --> 01:31:39,680
Speaker 2: But I really appreciate this movie. I feel I've and

1584
01:31:39,760 --> 01:31:42,000
Speaker 2: again this is just my opinion. I feel like this

1585
01:31:42,120 --> 01:31:46,960
Speaker 2: movie while I agree like there are many valid criticisms

1586
01:31:46,960 --> 01:31:50,000
Speaker 2: that I think we will continue to hear more about

1587
01:31:50,040 --> 01:31:53,800
Speaker 2: as time goes on. Yeah, I appreciate, Like I just

1588
01:31:54,000 --> 01:31:57,880
Speaker 2: especially after listening to interviews with Coral Farghat that like,

1589
01:31:58,479 --> 01:32:03,280
Speaker 2: the intent feels very clear that even if it is

1590
01:32:03,320 --> 01:32:06,559
Speaker 2: not a message, that is for everybody, and that there.

1591
01:32:06,800 --> 01:32:09,400
Speaker 2: You know, should be less white movies that are able

1592
01:32:09,439 --> 01:32:12,920
Speaker 2: to tackle topics like these, and there are, But I

1593
01:32:13,400 --> 01:32:16,040
Speaker 2: really I just love how it is like both a

1594
01:32:16,080 --> 01:32:21,160
Speaker 2: broad nightmare and a weirdly personal story that clearly so

1595
01:32:21,320 --> 01:32:25,040
Speaker 2: many people have connected to. And I would also really

1596
01:32:25,080 --> 01:32:28,200
Speaker 2: be curious to listeners of your in theater experience because

1597
01:32:28,439 --> 01:32:30,600
Speaker 2: I think that what we were talking about earlier in

1598
01:32:30,600 --> 01:32:33,160
Speaker 2: the episode of like we were all laughing but we

1599
01:32:33,160 --> 01:32:35,639
Speaker 2: weren't all laughing at the same thing, is such an

1600
01:32:35,760 --> 01:32:39,760
Speaker 2: interesting thing to interrogate totally. But yeah, I think this

1601
01:32:39,800 --> 01:32:42,400
Speaker 2: movie is fantastic. I love body horror, and I love

1602
01:32:42,439 --> 01:32:46,559
Speaker 2: body horror that is very intentional and it's like saying something,

1603
01:32:46,800 --> 01:32:52,080
Speaker 2: and the performances are amazing. I just think this movie

1604
01:32:52,080 --> 01:32:54,720
Speaker 2: fucking rocks. Can't wait to see your next one, can't

1605
01:32:54,720 --> 01:32:58,880
Speaker 2: wait to cover Revenge, And with that, I'm going to

1606
01:32:58,880 --> 01:33:01,080
Speaker 2: give my nipplesyam and if to do me more when

1607
01:33:01,120 --> 01:33:06,360
Speaker 2: a markeret quality, I'm gonna give one two Corley farshat

1608
01:33:06,720 --> 01:33:12,520
Speaker 2: and I will give my final one too. Sorry, I'm

1609
01:33:12,760 --> 01:33:15,479
Speaker 2: not giving it to the shrimp. There I said it.

1610
01:33:15,920 --> 01:33:21,719
Speaker 1: Wow, I almost thought you were gonna say Shrek Shrek. There,

1611
01:33:22,840 --> 01:33:25,800
Speaker 1: I guess I'll give my last nipple to Alissa Su

1612
01:33:26,479 --> 01:33:28,280
Speaker 1: Wow monstro Elissa Su.

1613
01:33:28,560 --> 01:33:31,920
Speaker 2: Yeah, rooting for her love. Huh. And with that, I

1614
01:33:32,000 --> 01:33:36,920
Speaker 2: believe that we're sorry you didn't appreciate your experience with

1615
01:33:36,960 --> 01:33:42,040
Speaker 2: The Buckle Cast. If you want to uh inject yourself

1616
01:33:42,080 --> 01:33:45,479
Speaker 2: with the thing that makes you die, please do so. Now.

1617
01:33:46,760 --> 01:33:48,360
Speaker 2: We're sorry you didn't enjoy.

1618
01:33:49,200 --> 01:33:54,080
Speaker 1: Yes, but if you did enjoy your experience, you can

1619
01:33:54,200 --> 01:33:57,519
Speaker 1: follow us. You can support us by subscribing to the

1620
01:33:57,640 --> 01:34:03,679
Speaker 1: Matreon Patreon dot com slash Bechdel Cast, where you get

1621
01:34:03,720 --> 01:34:07,360
Speaker 1: two bonus episodes every month, plus access to the back

1622
01:34:07,479 --> 01:34:10,600
Speaker 1: catalog of like somewhere around one hundred and seventy or

1623
01:34:10,600 --> 01:34:12,600
Speaker 1: one hundred and eighty bonus episodes.

1624
01:34:12,960 --> 01:34:16,799
Speaker 2: Yeah, so an absurd amount of content. Yeah, And as

1625
01:34:16,840 --> 01:34:21,519
Speaker 2: always the best way to directly support this show. And

1626
01:34:22,280 --> 01:34:26,960
Speaker 2: with that, let's slither to our shared star in the

1627
01:34:26,960 --> 01:34:30,360
Speaker 2: Walk of Fame and turn in blue misted.

1628
01:34:31,720 --> 01:34:38,400
Speaker 1: Let's do it, Bye bye. The Bechdel Cast is a

1629
01:34:38,439 --> 01:34:42,560
Speaker 1: production of iHeartMedia, hosted by Caitlin Dorante and Jamie loftis

1630
01:34:42,640 --> 01:34:46,479
Speaker 1: produced by Sophie Lickterman, edited by Mola Board. Our theme

1631
01:34:46,560 --> 01:34:50,800
Speaker 1: song was composed by Mike Kaplan with vocals by Catherine Vosskrosenski.

1632
01:34:51,280 --> 01:34:54,600
Speaker 1: Our logo and merch is designed by Jamie Loftis and

1633
01:34:54,640 --> 01:34:58,519
Speaker 1: a special thanks to Aristotle Acevedo. For more information about

1634
01:34:58,560 --> 01:35:01,559
Speaker 1: the podcast, please visit link Tree slash Bechtel Cast