1 00:00:09,440 --> 00:00:10,639 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Good Stuff. 2 00:00:10,680 --> 00:00:12,719 Speaker 2: I'm Jacob Schick and I am joined by my co 3 00:00:12,840 --> 00:00:15,520 Speaker 2: host and wife, Ashley shik Jake is. 4 00:00:15,440 --> 00:00:18,959 Speaker 3: A third generation combat Marine and I'm a gold Star granddaughter. 5 00:00:19,160 --> 00:00:23,000 Speaker 3: We work together to serve military veterans, first responders, frontline 6 00:00:23,000 --> 00:00:26,240 Speaker 3: healthcare workers, and their families with mental and emotional wellness 7 00:00:26,280 --> 00:00:30,000 Speaker 3: through traditional and non traditional therapy. At One Tribe Foundation, 8 00:00:30,760 --> 00:00:31,560 Speaker 3: we believe. 9 00:00:31,280 --> 00:00:33,800 Speaker 2: Everyone has a story to tell, not only about the peaks, 10 00:00:33,840 --> 00:00:36,239 Speaker 2: but also the valleys they've been through to get them to. 11 00:00:36,200 --> 00:00:37,000 Speaker 1: Where they are today. 12 00:00:37,440 --> 00:00:39,960 Speaker 3: Each week, we invite a guest to tell us their story, 13 00:00:40,080 --> 00:00:42,440 Speaker 3: to share with us the lessons they've learned that shaped 14 00:00:42,479 --> 00:00:44,440 Speaker 3: who they are and what they're doing to pay it 15 00:00:44,520 --> 00:00:45,800 Speaker 3: forward and give back. 16 00:00:46,440 --> 00:00:48,279 Speaker 2: Are mission with this show is to dig deep into 17 00:00:48,280 --> 00:00:50,600 Speaker 2: our guest journeys so that we can celebrate the hope 18 00:00:50,600 --> 00:00:52,600 Speaker 2: and inspiration or story has to offer. 19 00:00:52,880 --> 00:00:54,920 Speaker 3: We're thrilled you're joining us again. 20 00:00:55,320 --> 00:00:59,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to the Good Stuff. Our guest today. 21 00:00:59,680 --> 00:01:05,800 Speaker 2: Is Thompson, an internationally recognized glass artist based in Seattle, Washington. 22 00:01:06,319 --> 00:01:09,160 Speaker 3: Kapi's work deals with the biggest themes we as humans 23 00:01:09,200 --> 00:01:13,160 Speaker 3: try to come to terms with faith, religion, myth, folklore, 24 00:01:13,440 --> 00:01:15,400 Speaker 3: the cosmos and the afterlife. 25 00:01:15,760 --> 00:01:18,840 Speaker 2: Not only has Kapi built a life long, celebrated career 26 00:01:18,880 --> 00:01:21,760 Speaker 2: as a fine artist, she is equally devoted to her 27 00:01:21,800 --> 00:01:24,240 Speaker 2: creative community as a teacher and mentor. 28 00:01:24,680 --> 00:01:27,080 Speaker 3: She's here today to tell us about her life as 29 00:01:27,080 --> 00:01:30,600 Speaker 3: an artist and being a devoted student to religious philosophies 30 00:01:30,600 --> 00:01:34,200 Speaker 3: and spirituality. Kappy's story is also about the life and 31 00:01:34,319 --> 00:01:38,280 Speaker 3: sudden death of her beloved husband, Charlie Williams. Charlie was 32 00:01:38,319 --> 00:01:40,600 Speaker 3: the great love of Kapi's life and a partner in 33 00:01:40,640 --> 00:01:44,800 Speaker 3: her exploration of the spiritual realm. His passing opened Kappy's 34 00:01:44,800 --> 00:01:48,240 Speaker 3: heart to an even greater sense of love, heartbreak, and 35 00:01:48,280 --> 00:01:48,880 Speaker 3: the unknown. 36 00:01:50,280 --> 00:01:53,920 Speaker 2: This episode is about living, dying, and the beauty found 37 00:01:53,920 --> 00:01:57,960 Speaker 2: and grieving. This was a particularly moving conversation and we 38 00:01:58,000 --> 00:01:59,000 Speaker 2: are blessed to be able to. 39 00:01:58,920 --> 00:02:00,000 Speaker 1: Share it with you. 40 00:02:02,320 --> 00:02:05,000 Speaker 3: Miss Kathy Thompson, Thank you so much for joining us 41 00:02:05,000 --> 00:02:07,480 Speaker 3: here on the Good Stuff. We are so thrilled that 42 00:02:07,520 --> 00:02:09,000 Speaker 3: you're here joining us today. 43 00:02:09,080 --> 00:02:09,680 Speaker 4: Thank you. 44 00:02:09,680 --> 00:02:13,720 Speaker 3: Your story is about some of our greatest mysteries of life. 45 00:02:13,840 --> 00:02:16,520 Speaker 3: It's art, love, the meaning of life, and the meaning 46 00:02:16,560 --> 00:02:19,440 Speaker 3: of death. Your life has been so full of creation 47 00:02:19,639 --> 00:02:22,560 Speaker 3: and spiritual inquiry, and so to get us started tell 48 00:02:22,639 --> 00:02:24,800 Speaker 3: us about what it was like growing up in your 49 00:02:24,800 --> 00:02:27,280 Speaker 3: household and how you even became interested in art. 50 00:02:28,040 --> 00:02:32,200 Speaker 4: My mom was a painter, and she actually didn't have 51 00:02:32,240 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 4: a career, but she was primarily a homemaker. She had 52 00:02:35,919 --> 00:02:39,120 Speaker 4: four children with my dad, but she had a lifelong 53 00:02:39,200 --> 00:02:42,720 Speaker 4: practice of painting, and there was an art supplies in 54 00:02:42,760 --> 00:02:46,160 Speaker 4: the house. We went to museums, we went to gallery. 55 00:02:46,160 --> 00:02:49,679 Speaker 4: So I had an early awareness that art was something 56 00:02:50,000 --> 00:02:53,560 Speaker 4: that was a value. And I'm wired kind of the 57 00:02:53,600 --> 00:02:56,120 Speaker 4: way my mom is, so it was a pretty natural 58 00:02:56,200 --> 00:02:58,360 Speaker 4: thing to be interested in it as a kid. And 59 00:02:58,440 --> 00:03:03,000 Speaker 4: I started feeling like I was in a zone with 60 00:03:03,040 --> 00:03:07,200 Speaker 4: it probably when I was a teenager, so it was 61 00:03:07,280 --> 00:03:09,080 Speaker 4: kind of natural to head that direction. 62 00:03:09,880 --> 00:03:11,919 Speaker 2: Kevin, do you have any brothers or sisters and did 63 00:03:11,960 --> 00:03:13,080 Speaker 2: you guys go to church. 64 00:03:14,520 --> 00:03:18,160 Speaker 4: I have two sisters. I'm the middle girl or two 65 00:03:18,240 --> 00:03:21,680 Speaker 4: years apart, and a younger brother who's four years younger 66 00:03:21,720 --> 00:03:24,960 Speaker 4: than Mollie, six years younger than me. So my mom's 67 00:03:25,160 --> 00:03:29,600 Speaker 4: was from Iowa. Just a wonderful sort of common sense 68 00:03:29,960 --> 00:03:33,040 Speaker 4: person with a good sense of humor, and she met 69 00:03:33,040 --> 00:03:36,520 Speaker 4: my dad in college. It was after the war. My 70 00:03:36,600 --> 00:03:38,520 Speaker 4: dad was going to school on the GI Bill at 71 00:03:38,560 --> 00:03:40,839 Speaker 4: the University of Washington. My mom was coming to get 72 00:03:40,840 --> 00:03:45,160 Speaker 4: a teaching certificate, so that's how they met. We moved 73 00:03:45,240 --> 00:03:48,080 Speaker 4: a bit because my dad took him a little while 74 00:03:48,080 --> 00:03:51,200 Speaker 4: to settle down into a job that ended up being 75 00:03:51,240 --> 00:03:56,720 Speaker 4: a long term career. The family unit was pretty tight 76 00:03:56,760 --> 00:04:00,600 Speaker 4: and pretty important because we moved not infrequently, but you know, 77 00:04:00,640 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 4: every few years. One thing that was formative was when 78 00:04:04,720 --> 00:04:07,920 Speaker 4: I was a teenager. My dad, by then I was 79 00:04:07,960 --> 00:04:11,080 Speaker 4: a Boeing engineer, and that was one of the recessions 80 00:04:11,160 --> 00:04:15,520 Speaker 4: where everybody was leaving. Boeing was laying off people, and 81 00:04:15,560 --> 00:04:21,760 Speaker 4: he basically was transferred to the South. Boeing had facilities 82 00:04:21,760 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 4: in Huntsville, Alabama, and so my dad was transferred there. 83 00:04:24,880 --> 00:04:27,760 Speaker 4: So we moved to the Deep South during the Civil 84 00:04:27,839 --> 00:04:32,440 Speaker 4: Rights movement. My mom's father had passed away when she 85 00:04:32,560 --> 00:04:36,719 Speaker 4: was young, and my mom was in her twenties when 86 00:04:36,720 --> 00:04:41,200 Speaker 4: her father died, and when I was twelve and her sister, 87 00:04:41,320 --> 00:04:44,480 Speaker 4: Dory was in her thirties, Dori died of cancer, and 88 00:04:44,520 --> 00:04:46,560 Speaker 4: so that was about the time we moved to Alabama. 89 00:04:47,120 --> 00:04:50,520 Speaker 4: My mom had sought a church. At that point. I 90 00:04:50,600 --> 00:04:54,599 Speaker 4: started to attend the Episcopal Church. My family did, and 91 00:04:54,680 --> 00:04:59,080 Speaker 4: so that was kind of my first religious grounding. But 92 00:04:59,120 --> 00:05:01,800 Speaker 4: when I was about thirty teen, like a lot of 93 00:05:01,839 --> 00:05:06,720 Speaker 4: people do, I kind of decided that the Nicean crete 94 00:05:06,760 --> 00:05:09,520 Speaker 4: didn't make any sense to me that Jesus would be 95 00:05:09,560 --> 00:05:11,720 Speaker 4: the only begotten son of God. I mean, I had 96 00:05:11,720 --> 00:05:15,039 Speaker 4: a naive understanding of it, and I was just like, no, 97 00:05:15,800 --> 00:05:19,920 Speaker 4: I couldn't understand why all religions weren't acceptable or anyway. 98 00:05:20,520 --> 00:05:23,279 Speaker 4: Stopped kind of going to church. And then when I 99 00:05:23,320 --> 00:05:26,080 Speaker 4: was in college, I got attracted to, of course, all 100 00:05:26,279 --> 00:05:30,320 Speaker 4: the religions. I got curious about them, so I looked 101 00:05:30,320 --> 00:05:33,919 Speaker 4: at Buddhism, and Sufi's stories were really interesting to me, 102 00:05:34,040 --> 00:05:36,560 Speaker 4: So I you know, I sort of started getting interested 103 00:05:36,600 --> 00:05:42,880 Speaker 4: in the esoteric areas of most of the of religious cultures. 104 00:05:43,040 --> 00:05:46,359 Speaker 3: I think that's so fascinating that at such a young 105 00:05:46,440 --> 00:05:50,440 Speaker 3: age you started to not necessarily question, but you started 106 00:05:50,440 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 3: to just really think on a broader scope about religion. 107 00:05:54,000 --> 00:05:55,880 Speaker 3: Then about okay, does this make sense. 108 00:05:56,240 --> 00:06:01,279 Speaker 4: My family was pretty probably left leaning, I guess I 109 00:06:01,320 --> 00:06:04,839 Speaker 4: would say we had gone from the far North to 110 00:06:04,920 --> 00:06:09,120 Speaker 4: the deep South. My parents had taken on well, they 111 00:06:09,160 --> 00:06:14,440 Speaker 4: definitely were an anti racist mindset, and I think that 112 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:15,920 Speaker 4: there were a lot you know, there was a lot 113 00:06:15,960 --> 00:06:21,760 Speaker 4: of philosophical and sort of like value oriented discussion in 114 00:06:21,800 --> 00:06:24,800 Speaker 4: my family. So that's probably why it. You know, it 115 00:06:24,880 --> 00:06:28,240 Speaker 4: was okay for me to basically say no, I disagree, 116 00:06:28,400 --> 00:06:30,920 Speaker 4: you know, I don't think this is what I want 117 00:06:30,960 --> 00:06:31,200 Speaker 4: to do. 118 00:06:31,480 --> 00:06:34,400 Speaker 2: And I think that's extremely important in family units to 119 00:06:34,440 --> 00:06:38,680 Speaker 2: have openness, be able to talk with vulnerability, because we're 120 00:06:38,720 --> 00:06:40,960 Speaker 2: all eat our own person And I think it's a 121 00:06:40,960 --> 00:06:43,560 Speaker 2: beautiful thing that you were able to go educate yourself 122 00:06:43,960 --> 00:06:48,160 Speaker 2: stemming from curiosity, which was often Disguis's courage to look 123 00:06:48,240 --> 00:06:52,320 Speaker 2: in these other into these other religions and to educate 124 00:06:52,360 --> 00:06:56,360 Speaker 2: yourself about what does it all mean? Are they connected? 125 00:06:56,560 --> 00:06:59,279 Speaker 2: Do they have to be separated? And it seems as 126 00:06:59,320 --> 00:07:04,440 Speaker 2: though because of industry and monetary gain, a lot. 127 00:07:04,279 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: Of it is. 128 00:07:06,080 --> 00:07:13,040 Speaker 2: Separated, and then the hyper focus is implemented in being 129 00:07:13,080 --> 00:07:17,600 Speaker 2: able to okay, this is going to be monetized, Therefore. 130 00:07:17,520 --> 00:07:20,840 Speaker 1: It's going to be protected because we can't lose that. 131 00:07:21,520 --> 00:07:25,120 Speaker 2: I'm with you completely on that, But were you the 132 00:07:25,160 --> 00:07:28,440 Speaker 2: only one that kind of picked up on the art 133 00:07:29,080 --> 00:07:30,120 Speaker 2: out of your siblings? 134 00:07:30,640 --> 00:07:34,520 Speaker 4: Ah, that's interesting. My sister Sarah was bookworm She's the eldest, 135 00:07:34,560 --> 00:07:39,080 Speaker 4: and she was just so smart. She's basically was academically 136 00:07:39,120 --> 00:07:44,440 Speaker 4: really brilliant, and she buried herself in books, and I 137 00:07:44,560 --> 00:07:47,960 Speaker 4: sort of went another direction. So I was like into 138 00:07:48,040 --> 00:07:51,880 Speaker 4: visual art, and my younger sister, Mollie basically went into theater, 139 00:07:52,640 --> 00:07:55,679 Speaker 4: and my brother Peter was good at math and science. 140 00:07:55,840 --> 00:07:59,840 Speaker 4: The eldest and the youngest actually were pretty academically oriented, 141 00:07:59,840 --> 00:08:04,080 Speaker 4: and then Mollie and I were more in the creative side. 142 00:08:04,320 --> 00:08:07,640 Speaker 4: Everybody kind of carved out a different kind of lane, 143 00:08:07,880 --> 00:08:08,560 Speaker 4: I guess. 144 00:08:08,840 --> 00:08:11,679 Speaker 3: So when did you decide to make art your life's path. 145 00:08:13,520 --> 00:08:16,200 Speaker 4: It was in my early twenties when I went to 146 00:08:16,280 --> 00:08:20,000 Speaker 4: school in Bellingham at an alternative school, but there was 147 00:08:20,040 --> 00:08:23,040 Speaker 4: no opportunity to do art. It was connected with a 148 00:08:23,360 --> 00:08:26,160 Speaker 4: college that had art, but you couldn't get into classes 149 00:08:26,200 --> 00:08:28,520 Speaker 4: as a first year student. There's no way you could 150 00:08:28,560 --> 00:08:31,360 Speaker 4: do art, and so I wasn't particularly happy, and I 151 00:08:31,600 --> 00:08:34,720 Speaker 4: after one year, I went back home and there was 152 00:08:34,760 --> 00:08:38,480 Speaker 4: a small art school in Seattle, wasn't really accredited even 153 00:08:38,480 --> 00:08:41,360 Speaker 4: but it was really a fantastic place. It's called the 154 00:08:41,400 --> 00:08:45,160 Speaker 4: Factory of Visual Art, and the classes were great, and 155 00:08:45,200 --> 00:08:48,079 Speaker 4: I basically went to school there with my mom. We 156 00:08:48,160 --> 00:08:51,840 Speaker 4: both took classes and I had never been happier. And 157 00:08:51,880 --> 00:08:56,280 Speaker 4: then the next year the whole family had gotten into therapy. 158 00:08:56,520 --> 00:08:58,559 Speaker 4: My mom had found a therapist and it was sort 159 00:08:58,600 --> 00:09:01,800 Speaker 4: of transactual ANALYSI since we were like a hippie family 160 00:09:01,960 --> 00:09:05,559 Speaker 4: diving deep into So when I went back to school 161 00:09:05,800 --> 00:09:08,160 Speaker 4: a year later, it was like, are you going to 162 00:09:08,400 --> 00:09:11,320 Speaker 4: do psychology or do I want to do art? And 163 00:09:11,360 --> 00:09:15,000 Speaker 4: it was a pretty easy decision because I thought, yeah, 164 00:09:15,160 --> 00:09:17,439 Speaker 4: if I do art, I'll never come to the bottom 165 00:09:17,480 --> 00:09:19,679 Speaker 4: of it. You won't ever come to the end of it. 166 00:09:20,320 --> 00:09:23,880 Speaker 4: So and that's true. I made a really good decision and. 167 00:09:23,840 --> 00:09:24,920 Speaker 3: Never thought about that. 168 00:09:25,400 --> 00:09:27,360 Speaker 1: But it's such a profound. 169 00:09:26,960 --> 00:09:30,959 Speaker 3: It's never ending to say you can always create more, and. 170 00:09:30,960 --> 00:09:34,280 Speaker 2: To be honest with a lot of the people we know, 171 00:09:34,840 --> 00:09:36,880 Speaker 2: human psychology feels. 172 00:09:36,720 --> 00:09:40,000 Speaker 1: A lot like well, just you'll never see the end 173 00:09:40,040 --> 00:09:40,280 Speaker 1: of it. 174 00:09:40,880 --> 00:09:44,640 Speaker 3: But it's you know, it's it's such a gift to 175 00:09:44,640 --> 00:09:48,240 Speaker 3: be able to create. And artists have always fascinated me. 176 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:50,760 Speaker 3: Like I said, I'm not an artist. I try to 177 00:09:50,840 --> 00:09:52,240 Speaker 3: draw a dog and it looks like I love to 178 00:09:52,280 --> 00:09:54,480 Speaker 3: paint the hell out of walls. Yes, I do love that. 179 00:09:54,720 --> 00:09:56,560 Speaker 4: I love painting because that's good too. 180 00:09:56,679 --> 00:09:57,640 Speaker 1: It's therapeutic. 181 00:09:57,760 --> 00:10:00,280 Speaker 3: And you brought up therapy, and how forward thinking of 182 00:10:00,320 --> 00:10:03,559 Speaker 3: your parents to have the entire family back then in therapy, 183 00:10:03,600 --> 00:10:04,280 Speaker 3: because you know. 184 00:10:04,360 --> 00:10:07,400 Speaker 4: Yeah right, it was kind of amazing. 185 00:10:06,920 --> 00:10:10,840 Speaker 3: Actually somewhat taboo. But to me, painting walls is therapy. 186 00:10:11,520 --> 00:10:13,439 Speaker 1: Yeah, I mean, it's proof we can find therapy in 187 00:10:13,480 --> 00:10:14,160 Speaker 1: anything we do. 188 00:10:14,280 --> 00:10:14,640 Speaker 3: Exactly. 189 00:10:14,640 --> 00:10:15,480 Speaker 1: You know, you have to be. 190 00:10:15,440 --> 00:10:18,319 Speaker 2: First centered with yourself, and I believe that what you're 191 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:22,040 Speaker 2: able to create with your own hands is awe inspiring. 192 00:10:22,200 --> 00:10:25,360 Speaker 2: Because as Ash and I were looking at some of 193 00:10:25,360 --> 00:10:26,839 Speaker 2: this art, I was like, there's no way in hell 194 00:10:26,880 --> 00:10:31,240 Speaker 2: I wouldn't break that accidentally, Like I wouldn't mean to, yeah, 195 00:10:31,320 --> 00:10:32,080 Speaker 2: but I would take. 196 00:10:31,920 --> 00:10:33,600 Speaker 1: A very marine approach to it. 197 00:10:33,720 --> 00:10:36,120 Speaker 3: You'd be too careful and then I'd break it. Your 198 00:10:36,160 --> 00:10:39,160 Speaker 3: work is absolutely stunning. We hadn't seen it before, and 199 00:10:39,200 --> 00:10:41,640 Speaker 3: we went and really dug in, and your work is 200 00:10:41,679 --> 00:10:45,160 Speaker 3: absolutely stunning. So you decided to go to college and 201 00:10:45,200 --> 00:10:46,920 Speaker 3: pursue this as your life's path. 202 00:10:47,920 --> 00:10:50,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, So I had done mostly I started doing painting 203 00:10:50,800 --> 00:10:54,360 Speaker 4: and printmaking, and then I went to a school that 204 00:10:54,559 --> 00:10:57,880 Speaker 4: had an independent study program so I could do research 205 00:10:58,120 --> 00:11:00,720 Speaker 4: and I had a summer job and stay Glass Studio, 206 00:11:00,800 --> 00:11:04,680 Speaker 4: and the fellows there suggested that I researched glass painting, 207 00:11:05,400 --> 00:11:08,680 Speaker 4: which I did. I basically paint on glass, and that's 208 00:11:08,679 --> 00:11:11,599 Speaker 4: how I the language that I kind of developed my 209 00:11:11,760 --> 00:11:14,560 Speaker 4: work in because I started doing it in my early 210 00:11:14,640 --> 00:11:19,160 Speaker 4: twenties and I'm a painter and I'm a narrative painter, 211 00:11:19,480 --> 00:11:22,360 Speaker 4: and I'm self taught, so I developed kind of a 212 00:11:22,400 --> 00:11:26,760 Speaker 4: focusesthetic and storytelling aspect. 213 00:11:27,320 --> 00:11:32,080 Speaker 3: Your painting is not just painting like with a paintbrush 214 00:11:32,360 --> 00:11:33,840 Speaker 3: on top of glass, and then it's all. 215 00:11:34,000 --> 00:11:36,319 Speaker 2: I was just about to say, you make it sound 216 00:11:36,400 --> 00:11:40,800 Speaker 2: so simple. Yeah, and it's not simple. I understand the explanation. 217 00:11:41,160 --> 00:11:43,400 Speaker 2: Not anybody can do it like you have no idea 218 00:11:43,440 --> 00:11:45,960 Speaker 2: how hard I tried to figure it out. I was like, 219 00:11:46,040 --> 00:11:50,440 Speaker 2: that's incredible, because it is. It's something that imagine that 220 00:11:50,520 --> 00:11:53,439 Speaker 2: you're painting a picture with words to the people listening, 221 00:11:54,160 --> 00:11:57,360 Speaker 2: that they can put themselves in your brain just for 222 00:11:57,440 --> 00:11:57,880 Speaker 2: a moment. 223 00:11:58,400 --> 00:12:01,120 Speaker 4: Well, when I first started working with glass, I was 224 00:12:01,160 --> 00:12:04,840 Speaker 4: working in stained glass, and it is a very brilliant 225 00:12:04,880 --> 00:12:08,560 Speaker 4: material and it's not inexpensive either, So I think it's 226 00:12:08,600 --> 00:12:14,400 Speaker 4: interesting that I actually considered an audience when I started 227 00:12:14,440 --> 00:12:19,640 Speaker 4: working in glass because it's doesn't feel like particularly private medium. 228 00:12:20,160 --> 00:12:24,480 Speaker 4: The technique that I use is from early stained glass, 229 00:12:24,480 --> 00:12:29,080 Speaker 4: and it's called grisaille, and it's gray tonal painting, so 230 00:12:29,200 --> 00:12:31,240 Speaker 4: the colors are in the stained glass, and then the 231 00:12:31,360 --> 00:12:34,319 Speaker 4: drawing is done with a paint that's made out of 232 00:12:34,520 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 4: a glass frit and metal oxides, and so it gets 233 00:12:37,520 --> 00:12:40,520 Speaker 4: melted on, it's fired on, and it's fired on in 234 00:12:40,559 --> 00:12:44,400 Speaker 4: several layers, so a line work and then a second 235 00:12:44,440 --> 00:12:47,280 Speaker 4: layer which is applied as in a thin wash, and 236 00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:51,280 Speaker 4: then worked back subtractively with bristle brushes. It looks a 237 00:12:51,320 --> 00:12:53,760 Speaker 4: bit like an etching at that point, and then it 238 00:12:53,760 --> 00:12:57,160 Speaker 4: gets fired. Anyway, you can have a nuanced image with 239 00:12:57,320 --> 00:13:00,920 Speaker 4: painting and the colors of stained glass. That kind of 240 00:13:00,960 --> 00:13:04,680 Speaker 4: informed the whole development of my work, that style of 241 00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:06,240 Speaker 4: drawing of painting. 242 00:13:06,720 --> 00:13:08,400 Speaker 3: What were your initial inspirations. 243 00:13:09,280 --> 00:13:12,760 Speaker 4: I guess I've been inspired by early works from many cultures, 244 00:13:12,800 --> 00:13:15,200 Speaker 4: and this goes back to kind of an interest in 245 00:13:16,080 --> 00:13:20,440 Speaker 4: myth and religious cultures around the world. So when the 246 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:23,760 Speaker 4: first pieces I did were sort of just straightforward narrative, 247 00:13:23,800 --> 00:13:28,200 Speaker 4: I was like figuring out my voice by making drawings 248 00:13:28,240 --> 00:13:32,480 Speaker 4: of Aesop's fables and to try to integrate the drawing 249 00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:37,520 Speaker 4: into the lead lines. And eventually I worked in stained 250 00:13:37,559 --> 00:13:41,680 Speaker 4: glass for about ten years, and actually at the very 251 00:13:41,720 --> 00:13:45,720 Speaker 4: beginning pieces I made a reproduction of Persian miniatures to 252 00:13:45,720 --> 00:13:48,479 Speaker 4: try to figure out how to work with the paints. 253 00:13:48,920 --> 00:13:52,000 Speaker 4: So I sort of was like changing the scale and 254 00:13:52,600 --> 00:13:55,839 Speaker 4: changing the well. Anyway, we can't talk about all the. 255 00:13:57,800 --> 00:14:00,800 Speaker 2: It's a beautiful thing here is that Just from that 256 00:14:00,960 --> 00:14:04,920 Speaker 2: brief explanation, I think, especially for our younger audience or 257 00:14:04,960 --> 00:14:08,520 Speaker 2: even older audience that is listening, has to understand that 258 00:14:08,679 --> 00:14:13,199 Speaker 2: you can't wake up and be excellent at something. 259 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:15,600 Speaker 4: Yeah, it takes years, right, right. 260 00:14:15,720 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 2: You have to embrace patients and you have to embrace 261 00:14:20,000 --> 00:14:24,000 Speaker 2: the grace that comes with said patients, mostly for yourself 262 00:14:24,040 --> 00:14:27,320 Speaker 2: and your process. And that's a great explanation what you 263 00:14:27,520 --> 00:14:30,040 Speaker 2: just gave of the fact that you have to be 264 00:14:30,200 --> 00:14:34,080 Speaker 2: very patient and very methodical and very self forgiving in 265 00:14:34,120 --> 00:14:36,720 Speaker 2: the process. And I think that's one of the reasons 266 00:14:36,760 --> 00:14:41,240 Speaker 2: that your outcomes are second to none. And so I 267 00:14:41,280 --> 00:14:44,520 Speaker 2: commend you on finding you and finding your path and 268 00:14:45,080 --> 00:14:48,120 Speaker 2: the fact that it's endless. In your words, you know, 269 00:14:48,160 --> 00:14:51,600 Speaker 2: you never find the bottom I think is exhilarating. 270 00:14:52,160 --> 00:14:53,800 Speaker 1: I think that's got to be very exciting. 271 00:14:54,520 --> 00:14:57,440 Speaker 4: Yeah, if there have been like these ten year periods 272 00:14:57,480 --> 00:15:01,840 Speaker 4: in my life as an artist where I do an exploration. 273 00:15:01,960 --> 00:15:04,240 Speaker 4: So the first ten years I did these sort of 274 00:15:04,840 --> 00:15:09,200 Speaker 4: narrative fables in stained glass, and then I bumped into 275 00:15:09,600 --> 00:15:13,680 Speaker 4: the studio glass movement, which is actually in full blast 276 00:15:13,800 --> 00:15:16,960 Speaker 4: here in the Seattle area. So I actually was very 277 00:15:17,080 --> 00:15:20,480 Speaker 4: lucky to be working in glass at this period when 278 00:15:20,800 --> 00:15:22,720 Speaker 4: there was a lot of interests being sparked by it. 279 00:15:22,800 --> 00:15:26,280 Speaker 4: For Dale Jihouli is a very well known artist now 280 00:15:26,280 --> 00:15:31,280 Speaker 4: internationally globally because he's just gotten very very famous, and 281 00:15:31,560 --> 00:15:36,560 Speaker 4: he started a school north of Seattle, Pilchat Glass School, 282 00:15:36,600 --> 00:15:40,200 Speaker 4: and so there was a community of people coalescing around 283 00:15:40,240 --> 00:15:43,800 Speaker 4: working with glass as an artistic medium. So I've sort 284 00:15:43,840 --> 00:15:46,960 Speaker 4: of been buoyed and carried along by that. You don't 285 00:15:47,000 --> 00:15:49,400 Speaker 4: get to do very much in isolation, but when there's 286 00:15:49,440 --> 00:15:53,240 Speaker 4: synergy behind a group of people kind of working in 287 00:15:53,280 --> 00:15:57,080 Speaker 4: the same direction, the universe is like giving you a push. 288 00:15:57,440 --> 00:15:59,760 Speaker 4: So I was lucky in that respect too. I was 289 00:15:59,800 --> 00:16:03,040 Speaker 4: a to actually find my way as an artist in 290 00:16:03,120 --> 00:16:06,440 Speaker 4: this material that was finding its voice at this particular 291 00:16:06,520 --> 00:16:09,000 Speaker 4: time and an audience who would buy it. 292 00:16:09,160 --> 00:16:11,800 Speaker 3: So beautiful to have a mentor because you think art 293 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,480 Speaker 3: is such a personal thing, but then to think, no, 294 00:16:14,600 --> 00:16:17,560 Speaker 3: there's actually a large community around and so that's that 295 00:16:17,680 --> 00:16:23,720 Speaker 3: is beautiful. Thank you for painting that picture. Let's switch 296 00:16:23,800 --> 00:16:27,160 Speaker 3: gears over to your love life. When was your heart 297 00:16:27,200 --> 00:16:28,240 Speaker 3: fulfilled and love? 298 00:16:28,600 --> 00:16:32,760 Speaker 4: Yeah, so that'll take us back to my husband, Charlie. 299 00:16:33,040 --> 00:16:34,800 Speaker 4: That's the love of my life. I feel like that's 300 00:16:34,880 --> 00:16:38,720 Speaker 4: my karmic relationship person I was supposed to be with. 301 00:16:39,000 --> 00:16:41,560 Speaker 4: And we met when we were thirteen, so that goes 302 00:16:41,600 --> 00:16:44,560 Speaker 4: back to way back to junior high. Yeah, yep, Charlie 303 00:16:44,600 --> 00:16:46,440 Speaker 4: and I went to ASA Mercer Junior High and we 304 00:16:46,440 --> 00:16:49,760 Speaker 4: were friends through high school too. I met him just 305 00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,600 Speaker 4: prior to moving to Alabama, so I met him for 306 00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 4: like a month in seventh grade. Then we moved, and 307 00:16:55,720 --> 00:16:59,080 Speaker 4: then we returned to Seattle two years later. So I 308 00:16:59,160 --> 00:17:02,080 Speaker 4: met him for just a short period when I was 309 00:17:02,120 --> 00:17:05,520 Speaker 4: thirteen and then came back when I was fifteen. We 310 00:17:05,520 --> 00:17:09,600 Speaker 4: were good friends in high school as well. We both 311 00:17:09,600 --> 00:17:12,879 Speaker 4: married other people, and we were sort of this brat 312 00:17:12,920 --> 00:17:16,320 Speaker 4: pack of kids who thought we were the clique, who 313 00:17:16,359 --> 00:17:17,600 Speaker 4: thought we weren't a click. 314 00:17:18,280 --> 00:17:18,639 Speaker 1: Yeah. 315 00:17:19,080 --> 00:17:22,679 Speaker 4: And then Charlie and I bumped into each other again 316 00:17:23,080 --> 00:17:25,600 Speaker 4: at a point when I was about to get a 317 00:17:25,640 --> 00:17:29,239 Speaker 4: divorce and he already had one. We met at a 318 00:17:29,520 --> 00:17:34,720 Speaker 4: kind of an esoteric dance performance and had a long 319 00:17:34,720 --> 00:17:39,520 Speaker 4: conversation with each other. And then within the year my 320 00:17:39,720 --> 00:17:43,800 Speaker 4: marriage had come to an end and I was having 321 00:17:43,880 --> 00:17:47,679 Speaker 4: a show and I invited all my friends to come, 322 00:17:48,000 --> 00:17:52,760 Speaker 4: including Charlie, and I had a gathering at my studio 323 00:17:52,920 --> 00:17:57,160 Speaker 4: afterwards to celebrate. He came and I had all these 324 00:17:57,200 --> 00:18:00,720 Speaker 4: prints that I had a lithograph that to copies of 325 00:18:00,760 --> 00:18:02,480 Speaker 4: that I was giving to friends, and I gave one 326 00:18:02,520 --> 00:18:05,480 Speaker 4: to Charlie, and I remember he was leaving and I 327 00:18:05,520 --> 00:18:08,680 Speaker 4: gave him a kiss, and he thinks that I gave 328 00:18:08,760 --> 00:18:11,760 Speaker 4: him quite the kiss. Oh, I just thought I was 329 00:18:12,600 --> 00:18:16,160 Speaker 4: giving him a peck. But anyway, we started going out 330 00:18:16,200 --> 00:18:20,040 Speaker 4: after that, and I must have been a yes, Well, 331 00:18:20,119 --> 00:18:22,960 Speaker 4: it wasn't really much of a kiss. Actually, he told 332 00:18:23,000 --> 00:18:25,719 Speaker 4: everybody for the rest of his life that I was 333 00:18:25,800 --> 00:18:28,680 Speaker 4: really coming on to him. 334 00:18:30,480 --> 00:18:33,240 Speaker 3: Hilarious. What was he like? What was it that drew 335 00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:34,119 Speaker 3: you to him? 336 00:18:34,840 --> 00:18:39,600 Speaker 4: He was super smart and a serious guy, but also 337 00:18:39,880 --> 00:18:41,439 Speaker 4: he had a good sense of humor. We grew up 338 00:18:41,480 --> 00:18:43,800 Speaker 4: in the same place. You know, we knew the same people, 339 00:18:43,840 --> 00:18:45,439 Speaker 4: we had, grew up with the same music in the 340 00:18:45,440 --> 00:18:48,840 Speaker 4: same times. We couldn't have had a relationship if we'd 341 00:18:48,880 --> 00:18:52,400 Speaker 4: started earlyer. We both needed to grow up. He had 342 00:18:52,400 --> 00:18:55,960 Speaker 4: a complicated relationship with his dad. His dad was ex 343 00:18:56,040 --> 00:18:59,480 Speaker 4: military and just didn't live at home until Charlie was 344 00:18:59,520 --> 00:19:04,480 Speaker 4: about five or six. He's a biracial family, so his 345 00:19:04,520 --> 00:19:12,280 Speaker 4: mom's Japanese and his dad was Texas middleweight boxing oh wow, 346 00:19:12,760 --> 00:19:16,040 Speaker 4: from when he was young before the military. But his 347 00:19:16,119 --> 00:19:20,719 Speaker 4: dad was a disciplinarian, so Charlie had some hard stuff 348 00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,760 Speaker 4: in his family. He stayed with us when we were 349 00:19:24,280 --> 00:19:27,480 Speaker 4: My parents had left us for summer jobs and they 350 00:19:27,520 --> 00:19:30,919 Speaker 4: had a beach place. This was like in the like 351 00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,520 Speaker 4: nineteen seventy. Charlie lived with us just before he went 352 00:19:35,560 --> 00:19:39,760 Speaker 4: to college. He was selling encyclopedias and we were, you know, 353 00:19:40,080 --> 00:19:43,560 Speaker 4: had whatever summer jobs we had, and he came to 354 00:19:43,600 --> 00:19:45,800 Speaker 4: live with us because he'd gotten kicked out. He'd had 355 00:19:45,840 --> 00:19:48,000 Speaker 4: a fight, finally, a fight with his dad and that 356 00:19:48,160 --> 00:19:50,080 Speaker 4: was the end of that. So anyway, he went to 357 00:19:50,160 --> 00:19:53,080 Speaker 4: University of Chicago for a couple of years, and we 358 00:19:53,200 --> 00:19:56,680 Speaker 4: talked every so often on the phone. We were good friends, 359 00:19:56,840 --> 00:19:59,720 Speaker 4: but we weren't a love interest until much later. 360 00:20:00,200 --> 00:20:03,199 Speaker 3: That's beautiful how your paths crossed right when they were 361 00:20:03,240 --> 00:20:03,800 Speaker 3: supposed to. 362 00:20:04,480 --> 00:20:06,600 Speaker 4: And then it was wonderful to be married to him, 363 00:20:07,040 --> 00:20:09,960 Speaker 4: and we had the esoteric interest in common too. He 364 00:20:10,200 --> 00:20:16,240 Speaker 4: was intellectually curious period. Charlie read really broadly, and he 365 00:20:16,320 --> 00:20:19,640 Speaker 4: had a good, solid kind of basic education from Chicago, 366 00:20:19,760 --> 00:20:23,080 Speaker 4: so he had read a lot of Greek philosophy, and 367 00:20:23,119 --> 00:20:27,359 Speaker 4: then he continued to study his whole life. And anyway, 368 00:20:27,400 --> 00:20:30,360 Speaker 4: but when we were both interested, had friends who were 369 00:20:30,400 --> 00:20:35,840 Speaker 4: doing Gurdjief Gerjeef was an esoteric teacher in the twenties. 370 00:20:35,880 --> 00:20:39,040 Speaker 4: But we were reading books and had a little study group, 371 00:20:39,680 --> 00:20:43,040 Speaker 4: and then after we were married, we were just looking 372 00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:47,280 Speaker 4: at enlightenment. What's that you start getting interested in your 373 00:20:47,600 --> 00:20:50,520 Speaker 4: you know, what is a human being? And if you 374 00:20:50,600 --> 00:20:53,639 Speaker 4: start meditating, what you know? What is your mind? What 375 00:20:53,760 --> 00:20:56,439 Speaker 4: is stillness? You know? Where do you go when you 376 00:20:56,480 --> 00:20:59,639 Speaker 4: go to sleep? These things, I think everybody kind of 377 00:20:59,640 --> 00:21:03,920 Speaker 4: comes up against them or ponders them. But Charlie and 378 00:21:04,000 --> 00:21:06,800 Speaker 4: I both had a deep curiosity about these things, and 379 00:21:06,840 --> 00:21:10,040 Speaker 4: so we were in a school called the Ridwan School 380 00:21:10,960 --> 00:21:13,439 Speaker 4: for nine years where we worked with a teacher and 381 00:21:13,480 --> 00:21:17,760 Speaker 4: went on retreats and basically it was an inquiry into 382 00:21:17,960 --> 00:21:21,680 Speaker 4: presence basically and into the aspects of being, and the 383 00:21:22,280 --> 00:21:25,399 Speaker 4: head of the school was Hamid Ali, but there were 384 00:21:25,440 --> 00:21:28,360 Speaker 4: a lot of teachers in the program. So anyway, there 385 00:21:28,440 --> 00:21:31,639 Speaker 4: was an aspect of psychology in it too, so kind 386 00:21:31,680 --> 00:21:35,240 Speaker 4: of a spiritual psychology of going into the things that 387 00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:39,080 Speaker 4: separate you from presence, which usually are our family of 388 00:21:39,200 --> 00:21:43,320 Speaker 4: origin issues. But you got really a sense of what 389 00:21:43,560 --> 00:21:46,560 Speaker 4: being present and being quiet and if you can connect 390 00:21:46,600 --> 00:21:49,640 Speaker 4: with that. But in the end then Charlie was too 391 00:21:49,680 --> 00:21:53,000 Speaker 4: expensive to stay in so Charlie was ready to He 392 00:21:53,119 --> 00:21:56,320 Speaker 4: ran for a judicial office, and so we needed our 393 00:21:56,359 --> 00:21:59,919 Speaker 4: money to actually put into a political campaign, which was 394 00:22:00,119 --> 00:22:10,280 Speaker 4: a wonderful ego reduction exercise. Basically, anyway, the things you 395 00:22:10,359 --> 00:22:13,200 Speaker 4: do that you work for that are hard, and then 396 00:22:13,359 --> 00:22:17,320 Speaker 4: you lose, and then you pick yourself up the next day. 397 00:22:17,440 --> 00:22:21,680 Speaker 4: It's amazing you lose and then you grow and then 398 00:22:21,720 --> 00:22:25,359 Speaker 4: you go, oh wow, that was awful. Well, it wasn't 399 00:22:25,400 --> 00:22:31,200 Speaker 4: all awful. Anyway. We also got interested in basically the 400 00:22:32,000 --> 00:22:37,359 Speaker 4: wisdom traditions and theosophy, you know. Anyway, so Charlie and 401 00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:42,320 Speaker 4: I just it was wonderful to study with him. Charlie 402 00:22:42,359 --> 00:22:44,320 Speaker 4: got sick. I don't know if it was just a 403 00:22:44,359 --> 00:22:47,320 Speaker 4: segue for that, but we were married for twenty two 404 00:22:47,359 --> 00:22:50,520 Speaker 4: and a half years, and five years ago he had 405 00:22:51,680 --> 00:22:56,000 Speaker 4: got sick quickly and we didn't even know he was ill. 406 00:22:56,880 --> 00:23:00,560 Speaker 4: He wasn't feeling well and then for a couple weeks 407 00:23:00,560 --> 00:23:02,480 Speaker 4: and then I said, you just get to get into 408 00:23:02,520 --> 00:23:05,720 Speaker 4: the doctors, and you just have to go in. And 409 00:23:05,920 --> 00:23:10,439 Speaker 4: what happened was he went for some imaging and they 410 00:23:10,520 --> 00:23:14,480 Speaker 4: thought he might have leukemia, but then it turned out 411 00:23:14,520 --> 00:23:17,399 Speaker 4: to be something much more virulent. So in the end, 412 00:23:18,080 --> 00:23:21,919 Speaker 4: a week after the initial imaging, he was in pain 413 00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:24,600 Speaker 4: and we went back to the doctors for the follow 414 00:23:24,680 --> 00:23:26,520 Speaker 4: up and they put him in the hospital and then 415 00:23:26,560 --> 00:23:31,280 Speaker 4: he died four days later. So it was really fast. Yeah, 416 00:23:31,520 --> 00:23:36,320 Speaker 4: So the thing about death, well it's a shock. I mean, 417 00:23:36,359 --> 00:23:39,679 Speaker 4: it's terrible to not be prepared for. It is hard. 418 00:23:40,480 --> 00:23:43,000 Speaker 4: So you're in a state of shock for a while. 419 00:23:43,240 --> 00:23:49,399 Speaker 4: I mean, it's like but what helped was he had 420 00:23:50,119 --> 00:23:52,040 Speaker 4: been actually he didn't think he was going to live 421 00:23:52,119 --> 00:23:55,360 Speaker 4: long anyway. He talked about that frequently. His father died 422 00:23:55,400 --> 00:23:59,920 Speaker 4: at like age sixty two, and Charlie had some underlying 423 00:24:00,080 --> 00:24:04,480 Speaker 4: health issues. He had Type two diabetes and had a stint, 424 00:24:04,560 --> 00:24:08,280 Speaker 4: so he contemplated when he would die. And he had 425 00:24:08,320 --> 00:24:14,040 Speaker 4: been studying also the work of Rudel Steiner, who founded anthroposophy, 426 00:24:14,080 --> 00:24:18,880 Speaker 4: which is another of these sort of esoteric branches. It's 427 00:24:18,880 --> 00:24:23,680 Speaker 4: an esoteric Christian philosophy. But there's a lot of writing 428 00:24:23,880 --> 00:24:29,040 Speaker 4: that Steiner did about reincarnation. And he was a clairvoyant, 429 00:24:29,160 --> 00:24:35,440 Speaker 4: so he basically could see into the spiritual world, and 430 00:24:36,440 --> 00:24:39,760 Speaker 4: he did a lot of lecturing. The lectures were all written, 431 00:24:39,840 --> 00:24:42,320 Speaker 4: so there's a ton of material, and he spoke a 432 00:24:42,359 --> 00:24:45,159 Speaker 4: lot about the period between death and rebirth. And Charlie 433 00:24:45,240 --> 00:24:49,120 Speaker 4: had been reading about this for a long time and studying, 434 00:24:49,160 --> 00:24:51,920 Speaker 4: and I had been as well, but he had gone 435 00:24:52,119 --> 00:24:55,760 Speaker 4: much more deeply into it. So actually, right now we're 436 00:24:55,840 --> 00:24:59,240 Speaker 4: in Charlie's office and I'm just finally now going through 437 00:24:59,280 --> 00:25:02,080 Speaker 4: some through the books he has, like there's like five 438 00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:07,200 Speaker 4: thousand volumes in here, wow, on esoteric traditions of everything 439 00:25:07,240 --> 00:25:12,439 Speaker 4: from Tibetan Buddhism to Avida Vedanta to the Greeks to 440 00:25:12,880 --> 00:25:18,040 Speaker 4: theosophy and anthroposophy and Alice Bailey and you know, anyway, 441 00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:23,280 Speaker 4: it's like Gurgieff and all the people who basically secondary 442 00:25:23,680 --> 00:25:27,400 Speaker 4: students of all these movements. It was a defense attorney, 443 00:25:27,440 --> 00:25:30,560 Speaker 4: so if he wasn't actually defending somebody who had been 444 00:25:30,600 --> 00:25:33,920 Speaker 4: accused of there's a lot of dui work mostly and 445 00:25:34,280 --> 00:25:36,840 Speaker 4: some other more serious stuff. He was a wonderful lawyer, 446 00:25:36,920 --> 00:25:40,320 Speaker 4: but he was a lifelong learner. So I was comforted 447 00:25:40,359 --> 00:25:44,000 Speaker 4: by the fact that Charlie had he had studied how 448 00:25:44,240 --> 00:25:47,000 Speaker 4: you know, death, and so when he actually died, he 449 00:25:47,119 --> 00:25:49,639 Speaker 4: died quite easily, you know, when we found out that 450 00:25:49,760 --> 00:25:52,440 Speaker 4: he was on a ventilator, and when it turned out 451 00:25:52,480 --> 00:25:56,520 Speaker 4: that he was really was going, I said, no, then 452 00:25:56,560 --> 00:25:58,439 Speaker 4: we'd just let him go. And I think he just 453 00:25:58,560 --> 00:26:03,000 Speaker 4: relaxed into it dying. What it does it reveals to you. 454 00:26:04,600 --> 00:26:10,359 Speaker 4: To me anyway, my experience was that I could see 455 00:26:10,359 --> 00:26:14,760 Speaker 4: how much I loved him. Everything that was bullshit was 456 00:26:15,000 --> 00:26:19,440 Speaker 4: just disappeared and what didn't even exist. So I saw 457 00:26:20,080 --> 00:26:23,280 Speaker 4: how much I loved him, and that really carried me 458 00:26:23,400 --> 00:26:27,359 Speaker 4: for quite a while. It also pushed me into presence 459 00:26:27,960 --> 00:26:31,640 Speaker 4: the shock of the death. Like I was like in 460 00:26:31,960 --> 00:26:37,600 Speaker 4: the silence of it, and it was so true. Those 461 00:26:37,680 --> 00:26:41,800 Speaker 4: aspects of it were so profound, the depth and the 462 00:26:41,840 --> 00:26:44,840 Speaker 4: truth of it, and then how much I loved him, 463 00:26:44,920 --> 00:26:49,520 Speaker 4: and all these things that like they're they're very profound. 464 00:26:50,280 --> 00:26:54,800 Speaker 4: It was kind of ecstatic, almost strangely, because I was 465 00:26:54,960 --> 00:26:58,880 Speaker 4: also in love with myself because I could see how 466 00:26:58,960 --> 00:27:01,879 Speaker 4: much I loved him, and I was like, oh, y, 467 00:27:02,200 --> 00:27:04,119 Speaker 4: that was like proof of it, because you never know 468 00:27:04,119 --> 00:27:06,160 Speaker 4: because you get mad at people and you're like, oh 469 00:27:06,200 --> 00:27:08,840 Speaker 4: my god, are you kidding, why did you do that? 470 00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,520 Speaker 4: Or you've got your sticking points, you know. But I 471 00:27:12,560 --> 00:27:17,000 Speaker 4: appreciated so much about him too. Charlie wouldn't pull his punches. 472 00:27:17,040 --> 00:27:20,159 Speaker 4: He would tell the truth, and he told me the 473 00:27:20,240 --> 00:27:22,639 Speaker 4: truth when he thought I was out of line or whatever, 474 00:27:22,680 --> 00:27:25,159 Speaker 4: and it doesn't and that's not fun. But on the 475 00:27:25,200 --> 00:27:29,720 Speaker 4: other hand, I came to really appreciate who actually has 476 00:27:29,840 --> 00:27:34,840 Speaker 4: the courage to tell you what they see, even if 477 00:27:34,880 --> 00:27:36,320 Speaker 4: it's not what you want to hear. 478 00:27:36,760 --> 00:27:38,280 Speaker 1: Very few butswer. 479 00:27:38,760 --> 00:27:42,479 Speaker 4: But he made me a better person and I probably 480 00:27:42,480 --> 00:27:46,359 Speaker 4: made him a better person. But anyway, so the death 481 00:27:46,640 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 4: that was hard, and then eventually I got some grief counseling, 482 00:27:52,720 --> 00:27:56,520 Speaker 4: some therapy that helped. But you know, after the first year, 483 00:27:57,040 --> 00:28:03,360 Speaker 4: you realize, oh, this isn't going away, You're just in it, 484 00:28:03,440 --> 00:28:05,440 Speaker 4: and then you think, oh, you're going to get through it. 485 00:28:05,600 --> 00:28:08,960 Speaker 4: And then eventually you realize, oh, this is now part 486 00:28:09,000 --> 00:28:13,240 Speaker 4: of who you are. This grief, this loss, this person 487 00:28:13,640 --> 00:28:15,439 Speaker 4: is still part of who you are. And now the 488 00:28:15,520 --> 00:28:18,119 Speaker 4: fact that you lost them, that's part of who you are. 489 00:28:18,760 --> 00:28:24,920 Speaker 4: Also just trying to stay connected because I'm now seventy one. 490 00:28:25,400 --> 00:28:31,120 Speaker 4: Charlie died five years ago, five plus, and some people 491 00:28:31,359 --> 00:28:35,120 Speaker 4: want to partner up again and I don't. I had my. 492 00:28:35,160 --> 00:28:42,680 Speaker 1: Person actually emotional, so I'll jump in like that. 493 00:28:44,120 --> 00:28:46,520 Speaker 2: I probably don't look at like it, but I'm a 494 00:28:46,680 --> 00:28:50,320 Speaker 2: very deep human being, and. 495 00:28:50,640 --> 00:28:53,720 Speaker 4: I think everybody is, really but you're more aware of 496 00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:54,760 Speaker 4: it than most people. 497 00:28:55,800 --> 00:29:00,600 Speaker 2: You said it, not me, and your description like that 498 00:29:00,640 --> 00:29:05,800 Speaker 2: should be unsigned. It was such a beautiful and eloquently 499 00:29:05,920 --> 00:29:11,960 Speaker 2: put description that I feel like just the explanation alone 500 00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:14,600 Speaker 2: would help people start to heal. And I learned a 501 00:29:14,600 --> 00:29:18,920 Speaker 2: long time ago that I don't believe, I truly believe 502 00:29:19,000 --> 00:29:24,360 Speaker 2: that we don't ever get over traumatic experiences or things 503 00:29:24,400 --> 00:29:27,120 Speaker 2: that have made a big impression on our mind in 504 00:29:27,200 --> 00:29:29,520 Speaker 2: our soul. But I believe we learn to deal with 505 00:29:29,560 --> 00:29:33,520 Speaker 2: them in a healthier manner that in turn makes us 506 00:29:33,640 --> 00:29:38,160 Speaker 2: better human beings, not worse human beings. That's the way 507 00:29:38,200 --> 00:29:42,000 Speaker 2: I view those things. And it's clear to me by 508 00:29:42,040 --> 00:29:46,960 Speaker 2: your emotion that I feel, I truly feel it. I 509 00:29:47,040 --> 00:29:48,160 Speaker 2: hope we have. 510 00:29:49,920 --> 00:29:52,040 Speaker 1: What they had, is all I'm gonna say. I. 511 00:29:52,280 --> 00:29:54,280 Speaker 2: And I said that to Ashley for the listeners, like 512 00:29:54,360 --> 00:29:59,880 Speaker 2: that to me is ultimate relationship goal. And it's beautiful, 513 00:30:00,320 --> 00:30:06,560 Speaker 2: like your description and your emotion is absolutely raw and beautiful. 514 00:30:06,640 --> 00:30:08,800 Speaker 1: And I just wanted to take a minute to acknowledge that. 515 00:30:09,360 --> 00:30:12,120 Speaker 3: Thank you for sharing it with us, because your love 516 00:30:12,240 --> 00:30:16,240 Speaker 3: is now being spread to others because we can feel 517 00:30:16,280 --> 00:30:18,560 Speaker 3: it just to you talking about it, And so thank 518 00:30:18,560 --> 00:30:22,800 Speaker 3: you for sharing that. And I think back to when 519 00:30:23,000 --> 00:30:26,000 Speaker 3: you told us about the two of you really digging 520 00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:28,360 Speaker 3: in and what is presence and what is humanality and 521 00:30:28,360 --> 00:30:30,840 Speaker 3: what are all of these things? How much deeper was 522 00:30:30,880 --> 00:30:34,120 Speaker 3: your relationship because you took the time, you took the energy, 523 00:30:34,160 --> 00:30:36,840 Speaker 3: you took the effort to go study all of these things. 524 00:30:36,920 --> 00:30:38,719 Speaker 1: Think that is such a great point. 525 00:30:39,080 --> 00:30:44,400 Speaker 2: Think about how instant gratification obsessed we are in this country. 526 00:30:45,280 --> 00:30:48,360 Speaker 2: It's everything we want, need, is that our fingertips or 527 00:30:48,440 --> 00:30:51,320 Speaker 2: you know, on a keyboard, and the fact that you 528 00:30:51,320 --> 00:30:56,400 Speaker 2: guys took time and dug in it's not common especially now. 529 00:30:57,320 --> 00:31:00,000 Speaker 4: Just want to say one thing about doing that work together. 530 00:31:00,600 --> 00:31:03,560 Speaker 4: You're doing that work together, but a part for sure, 531 00:31:03,880 --> 00:31:07,400 Speaker 4: because like Charlie's issues were really different from my issues, 532 00:31:07,440 --> 00:31:09,840 Speaker 4: and so it isn't like you go into this thing 533 00:31:09,880 --> 00:31:13,040 Speaker 4: and you're sharing the beauty of all that. No, your 534 00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:17,800 Speaker 4: each of you is in your your shit and then 535 00:31:17,840 --> 00:31:21,600 Speaker 4: you're you're working it out, you're you're Yeah, there was 536 00:31:21,680 --> 00:31:23,760 Speaker 4: just one piece of it. I wanted to like not 537 00:31:23,880 --> 00:31:26,280 Speaker 4: make it too romantic, the part of like doing the 538 00:31:26,320 --> 00:31:29,720 Speaker 4: inner work of like looking at your stuff. It's very 539 00:31:29,720 --> 00:31:32,560 Speaker 4: individual and it's when you know that. 540 00:31:32,560 --> 00:31:36,320 Speaker 3: Everybody knows that there's absolutely nothing romantic about that part 541 00:31:36,600 --> 00:31:40,520 Speaker 3: at all. But to have two people that are in 542 00:31:40,600 --> 00:31:44,560 Speaker 3: a union together, that have committed their lives to each other. 543 00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:47,120 Speaker 4: I was really lucky to have a partner who was 544 00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:49,040 Speaker 4: interested in that the same. 545 00:31:48,800 --> 00:31:53,640 Speaker 2: As me, and he it was really lucky to have 546 00:31:53,760 --> 00:31:58,960 Speaker 2: you too, because it takes two. You absolutely exude love 547 00:31:59,200 --> 00:32:03,000 Speaker 2: and greece An acceptance, capy. I mean, I feel it 548 00:32:03,880 --> 00:32:08,400 Speaker 2: hardcore off of you You're a beautiful person, and so. 549 00:32:08,760 --> 00:32:11,560 Speaker 1: This has been an amazing thank you revolution. 550 00:32:11,800 --> 00:32:12,760 Speaker 3: How are you doing now? 551 00:32:13,520 --> 00:32:16,720 Speaker 4: You mean, in my life in general or in this minute. 552 00:32:17,800 --> 00:32:20,200 Speaker 3: In your life in general? How are you doing now? 553 00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:20,520 Speaker 1: Oh? 554 00:32:20,680 --> 00:32:25,080 Speaker 4: Yeah, So now I'm actually I'm struggling. I started up 555 00:32:25,120 --> 00:32:28,880 Speaker 4: to talk to my grief therapist again. My mom died recently. 556 00:32:28,960 --> 00:32:31,959 Speaker 4: My mom died in January. The last few years, the 557 00:32:32,000 --> 00:32:35,680 Speaker 4: pandemic's been tough. But my mom that's different. She was 558 00:32:35,800 --> 00:32:39,160 Speaker 4: ninety nine and a half and I had a wonderful 559 00:32:39,240 --> 00:32:42,880 Speaker 4: time she was still in her home. We were caregivers. 560 00:32:42,920 --> 00:32:46,160 Speaker 4: I was one of like five caregivers for the last 561 00:32:46,360 --> 00:32:50,800 Speaker 4: four years with my mom, and so that's a different thing. 562 00:32:51,040 --> 00:32:53,480 Speaker 4: But I miss her. Death is a subject for me. 563 00:32:53,600 --> 00:32:56,600 Speaker 4: Death is a you know, right now, it's a big subject. 564 00:32:56,600 --> 00:33:02,160 Speaker 4: I'm contemplating tidying up. It's weird. I want to live. 565 00:33:02,520 --> 00:33:07,040 Speaker 4: So I'm actually I'm trying to figure out how to 566 00:33:07,200 --> 00:33:12,800 Speaker 4: live with the loss and with the ongoing relationship that 567 00:33:12,880 --> 00:33:15,960 Speaker 4: you have with your loved ones who are gone. So 568 00:33:16,080 --> 00:33:18,520 Speaker 4: how am I doing now? I have a show that 569 00:33:18,720 --> 00:33:22,239 Speaker 4: I am preparing for that's next winter, and I so 570 00:33:22,440 --> 00:33:25,640 Speaker 4: I'm my art practice, which is I know that's always 571 00:33:25,640 --> 00:33:28,000 Speaker 4: been the bottom line. It was after Charlie died, because 572 00:33:28,000 --> 00:33:30,360 Speaker 4: the question is what do I do now? It's a 573 00:33:30,440 --> 00:33:33,440 Speaker 4: huge question, what do I want to do now? But 574 00:33:33,560 --> 00:33:36,200 Speaker 4: I fortunately I've always been able to answer it, which 575 00:33:36,240 --> 00:33:38,080 Speaker 4: goes back to the first thing I said was that 576 00:33:38,200 --> 00:33:40,120 Speaker 4: art is a deep study and you never come to 577 00:33:40,160 --> 00:33:43,200 Speaker 4: the bottom of it. Because really, I have become a 578 00:33:43,280 --> 00:33:47,280 Speaker 4: subject of my work in the narrative I did, probably 579 00:33:47,320 --> 00:33:50,080 Speaker 4: thirty years ago, start to pop in as a character 580 00:33:50,200 --> 00:33:53,640 Speaker 4: in the work. And now it's not necessarily that I'm 581 00:33:53,760 --> 00:33:57,960 Speaker 4: drawing myself in the work, although sometimes I am. It's 582 00:33:58,000 --> 00:34:01,959 Speaker 4: how I understand unconscious material comes up through art, and 583 00:34:02,080 --> 00:34:05,680 Speaker 4: so it's how I read myself. It's how I see 584 00:34:06,040 --> 00:34:09,799 Speaker 4: how I am, And so I can tell you I'm 585 00:34:09,800 --> 00:34:12,840 Speaker 4: good and I'm struggling. 586 00:34:13,000 --> 00:34:16,880 Speaker 1: And that's all okay, Yeah, that's all okay. 587 00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:17,440 Speaker 4: Exactly. 588 00:34:17,600 --> 00:34:20,400 Speaker 3: I can't wait to see your next pieces that you produce. 589 00:34:20,840 --> 00:34:23,239 Speaker 3: I truly can't. We have a question that we've asked 590 00:34:23,239 --> 00:34:25,520 Speaker 3: all of our guests, and I just cannot wait to 591 00:34:25,520 --> 00:34:28,600 Speaker 3: hear your answer to this. But what feeds your soul? 592 00:34:29,680 --> 00:34:34,520 Speaker 4: Oh, the study that I'm doing, the esoteric study, it 593 00:34:34,680 --> 00:34:38,960 Speaker 4: feeds my soul and my friends do, my relationships with 594 00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:43,560 Speaker 4: friends do, and art does. I actually realizing recently that 595 00:34:43,640 --> 00:34:47,040 Speaker 4: I'm hungry for good art. So, I mean, there's an 596 00:34:47,080 --> 00:34:50,919 Speaker 4: incredible show up at the Fry cast from Bradford. There's 597 00:34:51,600 --> 00:34:55,000 Speaker 4: a wonderful art museum in Seattle that has an incredible 598 00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,240 Speaker 4: show of Brooklyn, a New York painter, casts from Bradford. 599 00:34:59,320 --> 00:35:03,239 Speaker 4: Incredible sh she's eighty and it's a retrospective and it's 600 00:35:03,320 --> 00:35:06,400 Speaker 4: just incredible. Those are the things that are feeding my 601 00:35:06,480 --> 00:35:07,360 Speaker 4: soul right now. 602 00:35:07,840 --> 00:35:10,000 Speaker 3: And where can people find your art? 603 00:35:11,000 --> 00:35:14,000 Speaker 4: Oh, I have a website Kathie Thompson dot com, c 604 00:35:14,040 --> 00:35:16,200 Speaker 4: A P Y T h O N ps O N 605 00:35:16,760 --> 00:35:17,480 Speaker 4: dot com. 606 00:35:17,560 --> 00:35:20,160 Speaker 3: Truly beautiful works of art. 607 00:35:21,040 --> 00:35:23,560 Speaker 1: How do you find yourself recharging? 608 00:35:24,520 --> 00:35:28,640 Speaker 4: Walking is extremely important practice, And actually I learned that 609 00:35:28,680 --> 00:35:32,680 Speaker 4: after Charlie died, because really nothing was I mean, I 610 00:35:32,840 --> 00:35:36,320 Speaker 4: was just in a state of numbness in a way, 611 00:35:36,400 --> 00:35:40,760 Speaker 4: but walking I could feel my legs, just the feeling 612 00:35:40,880 --> 00:35:43,279 Speaker 4: of feeling my legs, and I was like, oh, this 613 00:35:43,400 --> 00:35:47,440 Speaker 4: feels good. So actually I still now I need to 614 00:35:47,480 --> 00:35:50,880 Speaker 4: be in nature. I don't have to be forest bathing 615 00:35:50,960 --> 00:35:54,560 Speaker 4: because that's pretty hard to do, but just to be 616 00:35:54,640 --> 00:35:58,120 Speaker 4: seeing some trees and the sky and hear the birds. 617 00:35:58,160 --> 00:36:00,520 Speaker 4: And so there's a park not too are from me 618 00:36:00,600 --> 00:36:03,879 Speaker 4: that just has a good walking loop. So anyway, so 619 00:36:03,920 --> 00:36:06,520 Speaker 4: that I walk, yeah, and I need to see friends, 620 00:36:06,719 --> 00:36:09,520 Speaker 4: and I need a good night's sleep. Those are my 621 00:36:09,760 --> 00:36:11,520 Speaker 4: go to recharging. 622 00:36:12,080 --> 00:36:12,960 Speaker 1: Kathy Thompson. 623 00:36:13,440 --> 00:36:16,120 Speaker 3: Kathy Thompson, thank you so much. Thank you for your 624 00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:21,040 Speaker 3: vulnerability and telling us your story. I mean, we could 625 00:36:21,040 --> 00:36:23,080 Speaker 3: do five hours with you, Katy. 626 00:36:23,480 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 2: Like I said, this is not the last time we've 627 00:36:25,120 --> 00:36:27,640 Speaker 2: talked so much. Right now, I just want to hug you. 628 00:36:28,040 --> 00:36:29,839 Speaker 2: I just want to do right. 629 00:36:29,760 --> 00:36:35,799 Speaker 3: Now doing a zoom hug. Oh. Thank you so much. 630 00:36:35,840 --> 00:36:39,560 Speaker 3: We truly appreciate your insight and your vulnerability and you 631 00:36:39,640 --> 00:36:42,759 Speaker 3: speaking your truth. It's your love of art, your love 632 00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,520 Speaker 3: of Charlie, your love of your mom, Virginia, and and 633 00:36:45,640 --> 00:36:47,960 Speaker 3: all things in this life. It's true that you see 634 00:36:48,000 --> 00:36:51,000 Speaker 3: the beauty in life, but you're also a forever student 635 00:36:51,080 --> 00:36:53,200 Speaker 3: and want to know more. We have so much to 636 00:36:53,239 --> 00:36:55,239 Speaker 3: gain from you, and we truly appreciate you being on 637 00:36:55,280 --> 00:36:58,000 Speaker 3: the good stuff much like. 638 00:36:57,960 --> 00:36:59,360 Speaker 1: You exude. 639 00:37:00,640 --> 00:37:04,120 Speaker 2: Everything that I aspire to be and I mean in 640 00:37:04,160 --> 00:37:06,600 Speaker 2: the emotional sense as a human being, and so. 641 00:37:08,040 --> 00:37:10,120 Speaker 1: Thank you for being you and giving us. 642 00:37:10,000 --> 00:37:15,160 Speaker 2: Your time and enlightening not only myself but everyone that 643 00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:16,480 Speaker 2: took the time to listen to this. 644 00:37:16,760 --> 00:37:17,719 Speaker 1: We were indebted to you. 645 00:37:18,520 --> 00:37:19,479 Speaker 4: Thank you so much. 646 00:37:21,640 --> 00:37:23,400 Speaker 1: That is the purest. 647 00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:30,120 Speaker 3: Soul, so beautiful, and not only the work that she's done, 648 00:37:30,360 --> 00:37:34,240 Speaker 3: not only the art that she's created in her story, 649 00:37:34,280 --> 00:37:38,040 Speaker 3: but she's was so raw and authentic and telling her 650 00:37:38,080 --> 00:37:42,160 Speaker 3: story and you can tell she's ever searching for more. 651 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,200 Speaker 3: That fascinates me. So many of us get stuck and 652 00:37:45,600 --> 00:37:48,120 Speaker 3: just what we know and then we move forward. She 653 00:37:48,400 --> 00:37:50,680 Speaker 3: wants to know more and that's beautiful to me. 654 00:37:51,800 --> 00:37:55,480 Speaker 1: Yeah, listen, I'm asked a lot, Jake, how do we 655 00:37:55,760 --> 00:38:00,000 Speaker 1: stop war? Now? I have an even more simple answer. 656 00:38:00,280 --> 00:38:01,640 Speaker 1: Be more like Kappy Thompson. 657 00:38:02,719 --> 00:38:05,960 Speaker 3: She is an incredible woman. To me, this episode was 658 00:38:06,000 --> 00:38:10,080 Speaker 3: a gift because there was so much enlightenment coming across 659 00:38:10,480 --> 00:38:13,239 Speaker 3: from her microphone to us. Right, Yeah, we get to 660 00:38:13,280 --> 00:38:14,080 Speaker 3: share it with others. 661 00:38:14,239 --> 00:38:20,840 Speaker 2: Beautiful soul, beautiful human, the most genuine version of herself 662 00:38:20,880 --> 00:38:23,799 Speaker 2: every day seemingly and it's just you know, I've never 663 00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,600 Speaker 2: wanted to hug someone so much and like just immediately 664 00:38:27,640 --> 00:38:34,720 Speaker 2: feel uber protective of this amazing human being. That brings 665 00:38:35,000 --> 00:38:38,080 Speaker 2: so much light in so many different ways and just 666 00:38:39,080 --> 00:38:43,520 Speaker 2: commands the grit to be better tomorrow than we were today. 667 00:38:43,920 --> 00:38:44,600 Speaker 3: That's what it is. 668 00:38:44,640 --> 00:38:45,120 Speaker 1: She's light. 669 00:38:45,760 --> 00:38:46,399 Speaker 3: She is light. 670 00:38:46,640 --> 00:38:48,920 Speaker 1: In fact, it's beautiful. 671 00:38:49,120 --> 00:38:51,560 Speaker 3: Thank you so much for listening. If this episode touched 672 00:38:51,600 --> 00:38:53,640 Speaker 3: you today, please share it and be part of making 673 00:38:53,680 --> 00:38:54,840 Speaker 3: someone else's day better. 674 00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:57,480 Speaker 1: Put on your bad ass case and go be great today. 675 00:38:57,560 --> 00:39:01,040 Speaker 2: And remember you can't do epic stuff without epic people. 676 00:39:01,640 --> 00:39:03,560 Speaker 1: Thank you for listening to the good Stuff. 677 00:39:06,719 --> 00:39:10,400 Speaker 2: The Good Stuff is executive produced by Ashley Schick, Jacob Schick, 678 00:39:10,760 --> 00:39:11,799 Speaker 2: Leah Pictures and. 679 00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:12,640 Speaker 1: Q Code Media. 680 00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:17,200 Speaker 2: Hosted by Ashley Shick and Jacob Shick, Produced by Nick 681 00:39:17,280 --> 00:39:22,280 Speaker 2: Cassolini and Ryan Counts. House post production supervisor Will Tindi. 682 00:39:23,280 --> 00:39:27,840 Speaker 2: Music editing by Will heywood Smith, Edited by Mike Robinson.