1 00:00:02,520 --> 00:00:07,360 Speaker 1: Bloomberg Audio Studios, podcasts, radio news. 2 00:00:08,960 --> 00:00:11,280 Speaker 2: World leaders a meeting at the UN in New York. 3 00:00:11,600 --> 00:00:15,400 Speaker 2: But in the diplomacy battle, is China making inroads in Africa? 4 00:00:15,520 --> 00:00:22,600 Speaker 3: We Chinese believe the African economy has a very bad future. 5 00:00:23,120 --> 00:00:28,440 Speaker 3: We not regard Africa just as a destination for charity. 6 00:00:29,040 --> 00:00:35,720 Speaker 3: We want to be economic partner for all African countries 7 00:00:35,840 --> 00:00:39,680 Speaker 3: and to grow with you. That also means we can 8 00:00:39,800 --> 00:00:44,000 Speaker 3: benefit from the partnership with Africa. 9 00:00:44,120 --> 00:00:47,720 Speaker 2: As Washington steps back, Beijing is stepping in. But what 10 00:00:47,800 --> 00:00:49,680 Speaker 2: are African nations getting from the deal? 11 00:00:50,120 --> 00:00:54,760 Speaker 4: If we are to realize the sustainable future for our 12 00:00:54,840 --> 00:01:00,240 Speaker 4: beloved continent, Africa and China, and indeed the entire will, 13 00:01:01,440 --> 00:01:07,959 Speaker 4: we must acknowledge the reality of the interdependence amongst our 14 00:01:08,360 --> 00:01:09,880 Speaker 4: community of nations. 15 00:01:10,240 --> 00:01:13,080 Speaker 2: On today's episode of The Next Africa Podcast, we'll look 16 00:01:13,080 --> 00:01:16,160 Speaker 2: at China's relationship with Africa and what a change in 17 00:01:16,200 --> 00:01:22,280 Speaker 2: global order means for African investment. I'm t you Adabayo, 18 00:01:22,400 --> 00:01:25,360 Speaker 2: and this is the Next Africa Podcast, bringing you one 19 00:01:25,400 --> 00:01:28,120 Speaker 2: story each week from the continent driving the future of 20 00:01:28,160 --> 00:01:33,280 Speaker 2: global growth with the context only Bloomberg can provide. While 21 00:01:33,319 --> 00:01:36,320 Speaker 2: Jennifer is away at the UN General Assembly. I'm looking 22 00:01:36,319 --> 00:01:38,840 Speaker 2: after the show this week and joining me to discuss 23 00:01:38,959 --> 00:01:42,800 Speaker 2: China's growing interest in Africa is our Asia columnist Krishima 24 00:01:42,800 --> 00:01:46,720 Speaker 2: of Aswani and our Africa economist Ivon Mango. Thanks both 25 00:01:46,760 --> 00:01:49,080 Speaker 2: of you for joining me. Krishman, let's start with you. 26 00:01:49,080 --> 00:01:52,280 Speaker 2: You've got a brilliant column up on the Bloomberg website 27 00:01:52,280 --> 00:01:55,160 Speaker 2: at the moment where you've said that China's popularity in 28 00:01:55,200 --> 00:01:58,480 Speaker 2: Africa is growing and that's kind of in stark contrast 29 00:01:58,520 --> 00:01:59,360 Speaker 2: to the rest of the world. 30 00:01:59,440 --> 00:02:00,880 Speaker 1: So why do you think that is? 31 00:02:02,440 --> 00:02:04,720 Speaker 5: Yeah, Tia, you know, as part of my research into 32 00:02:04,760 --> 00:02:08,520 Speaker 5: this topic, it was really interesting to look at the 33 00:02:08,760 --> 00:02:11,560 Speaker 5: data that was coming out of this survey that was conducted. 34 00:02:11,960 --> 00:02:15,200 Speaker 5: It's a series of surveys polls over a number of 35 00:02:15,280 --> 00:02:19,400 Speaker 5: years that the Asia Society gathered and collated, and what 36 00:02:19,440 --> 00:02:22,519 Speaker 5: it showed is that in parts of Africa, public opinion 37 00:02:22,600 --> 00:02:25,520 Speaker 5: on China is more favorable than in many other parts 38 00:02:25,600 --> 00:02:28,080 Speaker 5: of the world. And what was interesting to me about 39 00:02:28,080 --> 00:02:31,720 Speaker 5: that it's not just like the elites or government officials. 40 00:02:31,880 --> 00:02:35,880 Speaker 5: This popularity is actually across the board, shared among citizens 41 00:02:36,000 --> 00:02:39,760 Speaker 5: and in sub Saharan Africa, in fact, the positive views 42 00:02:39,800 --> 00:02:44,480 Speaker 5: of China outnumbered negatives roughly three to one, and a 43 00:02:44,520 --> 00:02:47,360 Speaker 5: lot of that is because of the economic ties between 44 00:02:47,800 --> 00:02:50,400 Speaker 5: China and the continent, and particularly when it comes to 45 00:02:50,440 --> 00:02:55,240 Speaker 5: sort of concrete, tangible results like roads being built, highways, ports, 46 00:02:55,440 --> 00:02:58,919 Speaker 5: but also the sort of softer side of that economic diplomacy, 47 00:02:59,320 --> 00:03:03,280 Speaker 5: for instance, cultural exchanges and scholarships. China has been investing 48 00:03:03,320 --> 00:03:07,119 Speaker 5: massively in all of that. But underpinning that desire by 49 00:03:07,200 --> 00:03:11,880 Speaker 5: Beijing to build these closer relationships with Africa is obviously 50 00:03:12,320 --> 00:03:15,720 Speaker 5: the massive amounts of critical minerals that are in Africa. 51 00:03:15,800 --> 00:03:19,280 Speaker 5: Something like thirty percent of the world's critical minerals are there, 52 00:03:19,560 --> 00:03:22,800 Speaker 5: and it's access to that that China is really after, 53 00:03:23,280 --> 00:03:26,720 Speaker 5: and this kind of popularity really helps Beijing pave the 54 00:03:26,760 --> 00:03:29,359 Speaker 5: way in order for it to have more of an 55 00:03:29,360 --> 00:03:32,600 Speaker 5: influence in the continent and get more access to these minerals. 56 00:03:33,680 --> 00:03:37,160 Speaker 2: Yeah, they're after minerals when it comes down to it, 57 00:03:37,200 --> 00:03:41,040 Speaker 2: but tell me about what the relationship looks like in 58 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:44,080 Speaker 2: real time, maybe some of the sort of soft power 59 00:03:44,200 --> 00:03:46,840 Speaker 2: elements to it. We mentioned the popularity. I've been reading 60 00:03:46,880 --> 00:03:51,280 Speaker 2: recently that Nigeria has actually made steps to add Mandarin 61 00:03:51,400 --> 00:03:54,120 Speaker 2: to the secondary school curriculum. Is that the sort of 62 00:03:54,200 --> 00:03:56,000 Speaker 2: thing we're going to see more and more of as 63 00:03:56,040 --> 00:03:58,120 Speaker 2: their popularity grows within the region. 64 00:03:58,480 --> 00:04:00,880 Speaker 5: Yes, absolutely, and I think think you know, there's two 65 00:04:00,920 --> 00:04:04,680 Speaker 5: reasons for that. One. It's not just simply about adding 66 00:04:04,880 --> 00:04:07,800 Speaker 5: a language to the curriculum for young students to learn 67 00:04:07,840 --> 00:04:10,400 Speaker 5: and to be able to sort of, you know, communicate 68 00:04:10,520 --> 00:04:13,680 Speaker 5: in a business language that is becoming increasingly important around 69 00:04:13,720 --> 00:04:16,400 Speaker 5: the world. It's also a reflection of the kinds of 70 00:04:16,440 --> 00:04:21,000 Speaker 5: investments that China has made in Africa, particularly when it 71 00:04:21,040 --> 00:04:24,920 Speaker 5: comes to infrastructure, but not just that in the mineral spaces. 72 00:04:24,960 --> 00:04:28,200 Speaker 5: I was saying, across the continent, you've got newer and 73 00:04:28,240 --> 00:04:31,440 Speaker 5: newer investments coming in. And I think what this shows 74 00:04:31,520 --> 00:04:34,600 Speaker 5: when it comes to education is that it begins at 75 00:04:34,600 --> 00:04:38,400 Speaker 5: the very sort of you know, early levels of that relationship. 76 00:04:38,839 --> 00:04:41,839 Speaker 5: And what I've noticed in my research for this column 77 00:04:41,880 --> 00:04:46,239 Speaker 5: in particular, it's not just about economic diplomacy. It's also 78 00:04:46,320 --> 00:04:50,360 Speaker 5: about creating a sort of cultural legacy or you know, 79 00:04:50,400 --> 00:04:54,000 Speaker 5: a new generation of leaders in fact, who are becoming 80 00:04:54,120 --> 00:04:57,919 Speaker 5: more susceptible to the way that the Chinese economy is run. 81 00:04:57,960 --> 00:05:01,239 Speaker 5: And it's a very alternative vision that is on offer 82 00:05:01,320 --> 00:05:04,240 Speaker 5: here than from what has been offered by the West. 83 00:05:04,279 --> 00:05:07,000 Speaker 5: And I think it's a really appealing vision, this idea 84 00:05:07,080 --> 00:05:09,760 Speaker 5: that an economy can grow under what is effectively an 85 00:05:09,800 --> 00:05:14,000 Speaker 5: authoritarian state, and that's you know, in some respects, a 86 00:05:14,040 --> 00:05:17,479 Speaker 5: country that does not dole out massive amounts of sort 87 00:05:17,480 --> 00:05:20,880 Speaker 5: of human rights lectures, but is willing to invest a 88 00:05:20,920 --> 00:05:24,520 Speaker 5: lot in the country in terms of you know, actual money. 89 00:05:24,640 --> 00:05:27,400 Speaker 5: I think is very appealing to a lot of leaders 90 00:05:27,440 --> 00:05:28,400 Speaker 5: as well as people. 91 00:05:29,120 --> 00:05:32,080 Speaker 2: Yeah, just on that point about cultural legacy, you know, 92 00:05:32,160 --> 00:05:37,400 Speaker 2: because of history, it's something particularly sensitive on the African continent. 93 00:05:38,240 --> 00:05:41,240 Speaker 2: Is there any pushback We've mentioned the popularity, but is 94 00:05:41,240 --> 00:05:44,840 Speaker 2: there any pushback on this growing sense of presence that 95 00:05:45,000 --> 00:05:46,919 Speaker 2: China is seeming to gain in Africa. 96 00:05:47,839 --> 00:05:50,359 Speaker 5: I think there is pushback, and I think it's legitimate 97 00:05:50,400 --> 00:05:53,920 Speaker 5: and I think it's sensible because along with this investment 98 00:05:54,080 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 5: comes the concerns around debt diplomacy. You know, You've seen 99 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:00,599 Speaker 5: this in other parts of the world before, where China's 100 00:06:00,600 --> 00:06:03,920 Speaker 5: Belt and Road initiative has made huge for rays places 101 00:06:03,960 --> 00:06:06,520 Speaker 5: like Sri Lanka and Bangladesh, for instance, where there have 102 00:06:06,600 --> 00:06:11,479 Speaker 5: been real concerns, genuine concerns about going into business with China. Now, 103 00:06:11,600 --> 00:06:13,880 Speaker 5: the US has in the past talked about this and 104 00:06:13,920 --> 00:06:17,440 Speaker 5: consistently waives the specter that if you end up doing 105 00:06:17,480 --> 00:06:20,680 Speaker 5: a deal with China, the terms are not very good 106 00:06:20,760 --> 00:06:23,400 Speaker 5: for you. And I think that's something that African nations 107 00:06:23,440 --> 00:06:26,000 Speaker 5: need to look at really carefully. It shouldn't just be 108 00:06:26,080 --> 00:06:28,640 Speaker 5: a case of where you have investment coming in and 109 00:06:28,640 --> 00:06:31,240 Speaker 5: then Chinese workers come in to build that railway, so 110 00:06:31,279 --> 00:06:34,039 Speaker 5: there's no trickle down effect or transfer of knowledge and 111 00:06:34,080 --> 00:06:37,600 Speaker 5: transfer of skills, and instead what ends up happening as 112 00:06:37,640 --> 00:06:40,440 Speaker 5: has been the case that's been documented by the IMF 113 00:06:40,440 --> 00:06:43,200 Speaker 5: and the World Bank, of a number of African countries 114 00:06:43,560 --> 00:06:47,320 Speaker 5: being in debt to China under unfavorable terms and conditions. 115 00:06:47,680 --> 00:06:51,960 Speaker 5: That is a form of sort of economic colonialism, and 116 00:06:52,040 --> 00:06:54,960 Speaker 5: I think that bodes really badly for the continent if 117 00:06:54,960 --> 00:06:57,760 Speaker 5: that's the kind of relationship that continues in the future. 118 00:06:58,760 --> 00:07:02,320 Speaker 2: Interesting you and here Yvon talk to me about the numbers. 119 00:07:02,520 --> 00:07:05,080 Speaker 2: How big is China's investment in Africa. 120 00:07:05,200 --> 00:07:09,040 Speaker 6: So, China's investment in Africa over the past say, fifteen 121 00:07:09,080 --> 00:07:12,760 Speaker 6: years has been around eight billion dollars per annum. We 122 00:07:12,880 --> 00:07:18,120 Speaker 6: saw an exceptional spike around twenty twelve of around fifteen billion, 123 00:07:18,480 --> 00:07:21,960 Speaker 6: but generally it's been around the five to eight billion 124 00:07:22,040 --> 00:07:25,720 Speaker 6: mark over the past say five years. What's been interesting 125 00:07:26,040 --> 00:07:29,400 Speaker 6: is the sectors that FDI is going into, and that's 126 00:07:29,680 --> 00:07:32,480 Speaker 6: what you find out. It dominates in the extractive industry, 127 00:07:32,520 --> 00:07:36,040 Speaker 6: so it's mainly the extraction of crude oil gas, but 128 00:07:36,160 --> 00:07:39,800 Speaker 6: also minerals. You're seeing an increasing focus of course in 129 00:07:39,880 --> 00:07:44,360 Speaker 6: critical minerals, partaking countries like Zambia which produces copper, in 130 00:07:44,400 --> 00:07:47,560 Speaker 6: the case of the Democratic Republic of Congo that produces 131 00:07:47,640 --> 00:07:52,320 Speaker 6: cobalt and Barbwie for instance, that produces lithium. About half 132 00:07:52,400 --> 00:07:56,400 Speaker 6: of that FDI is going into commodities. On minerals, only 133 00:07:56,400 --> 00:08:01,280 Speaker 6: about twenty five percent ends up in low value manufacturing, 134 00:08:01,800 --> 00:08:04,440 Speaker 6: and that's something I think Africa would like to see shift. 135 00:08:04,480 --> 00:08:08,080 Speaker 6: That'd like to see more of that funding, including the 136 00:08:08,240 --> 00:08:12,480 Speaker 6: debt that comes from China. When the China Africa Summit 137 00:08:12,560 --> 00:08:15,880 Speaker 6: happened about a year ago in Beijing, one of the 138 00:08:16,000 --> 00:08:19,800 Speaker 6: concerns was that China's trade surplus with Africa is growing, 139 00:08:20,160 --> 00:08:23,400 Speaker 6: so basically that you're seeing the exports to the continent 140 00:08:23,640 --> 00:08:28,680 Speaker 6: increase relative to what China is importing from Africa. So 141 00:08:29,160 --> 00:08:31,400 Speaker 6: a shift in that or at least a reduction in 142 00:08:31,440 --> 00:08:34,600 Speaker 6: that trade surplus is something that Africa is seeking to 143 00:08:34,640 --> 00:08:37,120 Speaker 6: do and they're hoping that China can help them do 144 00:08:37,200 --> 00:08:41,200 Speaker 6: that by investing more in the manufacturing sector so that 145 00:08:41,280 --> 00:08:45,000 Speaker 6: Africa can also produce manufacturing products that it can sult 146 00:08:45,080 --> 00:08:48,040 Speaker 6: to China, Asia and other markets. 147 00:08:48,559 --> 00:08:51,480 Speaker 2: Okay, stay with me, krieshman Ivan. When we come back, 148 00:08:51,520 --> 00:08:53,800 Speaker 2: we'll have a look at what the impact of the 149 00:08:53,920 --> 00:08:57,119 Speaker 2: US tariffs could have on China's relationship with Africa. 150 00:08:57,280 --> 00:09:03,520 Speaker 1: We'll be right back. Welcome back. Today. 151 00:09:03,520 --> 00:09:06,960 Speaker 2: We're talking about China's growing popularity in Africa and how 152 00:09:07,040 --> 00:09:10,120 Speaker 2: the relationship is growing at a time when Washington is 153 00:09:10,160 --> 00:09:13,679 Speaker 2: stepping back. Karishma of Veswani and Ivon Mango are still 154 00:09:13,679 --> 00:09:16,920 Speaker 2: with me. Before the break, we talked about Chinese investment, 155 00:09:17,280 --> 00:09:20,679 Speaker 2: but China also sees Africa as a customer base. Ivon 156 00:09:20,960 --> 00:09:22,959 Speaker 2: what is China exporting to Africa. 157 00:09:23,280 --> 00:09:27,880 Speaker 6: It's mainly manufactured goods that's coming low value added manufactured 158 00:09:27,880 --> 00:09:31,560 Speaker 6: goods that are of low cost compared to those from 159 00:09:31,559 --> 00:09:35,160 Speaker 6: other regions. That's what we're seeing coming into the continent 160 00:09:35,360 --> 00:09:38,800 Speaker 6: at very competitive prices, which is probably another reason why 161 00:09:39,080 --> 00:09:43,560 Speaker 6: African countries are struggling to break into the manufacturing industry. 162 00:09:43,760 --> 00:09:46,880 Speaker 2: Let's talk about tariffs here. Have they made it harder 163 00:09:47,200 --> 00:09:50,080 Speaker 2: for China to export to the US. Is that having 164 00:09:50,080 --> 00:09:52,160 Speaker 2: an impact on the amount of goods that are being 165 00:09:52,200 --> 00:09:52,959 Speaker 2: sent to Africa? 166 00:09:53,480 --> 00:09:55,960 Speaker 6: In terms of the response or the reaction of African 167 00:09:56,000 --> 00:09:58,560 Speaker 6: countries to the tariffs, what you're seeing is that countries 168 00:09:58,600 --> 00:10:01,679 Speaker 6: that have been hit hard by these US tariffs are 169 00:10:01,720 --> 00:10:05,280 Speaker 6: seeking alternative markets for their products. South Africa has been 170 00:10:05,640 --> 00:10:09,760 Speaker 6: sending delegations to Asia, in particular the Asian countries, seeking 171 00:10:09,800 --> 00:10:13,080 Speaker 6: alternative markets. Of course, this is not going to happen overnight. 172 00:10:13,360 --> 00:10:17,840 Speaker 6: It takes months, six month, years to establish new trade relationships. 173 00:10:18,360 --> 00:10:20,800 Speaker 6: That will take time in terms of achieving and I 174 00:10:20,800 --> 00:10:23,080 Speaker 6: guess China is also one of the markets they are 175 00:10:23,080 --> 00:10:26,440 Speaker 6: looking at. But also keep in mind the US is 176 00:10:26,440 --> 00:10:30,200 Speaker 6: a significant global consumer of imports. That is, it is 177 00:10:30,360 --> 00:10:33,400 Speaker 6: South Africa's second biggest trade partner, So trying to find 178 00:10:33,480 --> 00:10:36,880 Speaker 6: markets that can take up the share of exports from 179 00:10:36,880 --> 00:10:39,840 Speaker 6: South Africa that we're being consumed by the US will 180 00:10:39,880 --> 00:10:40,400 Speaker 6: take time. 181 00:10:40,760 --> 00:10:41,280 Speaker 1: I'm interested. 182 00:10:41,320 --> 00:10:43,400 Speaker 2: We've been talking about some of the countries that the 183 00:10:43,440 --> 00:10:48,559 Speaker 2: hardest hit by tariffs, like South Africa is China then 184 00:10:48,840 --> 00:10:52,679 Speaker 2: a winner of this tariff situation. Does it put some 185 00:10:52,840 --> 00:10:56,000 Speaker 2: African countries that are hard hits in the position that 186 00:10:56,000 --> 00:10:59,520 Speaker 2: they want in terms of looking to diversify into other markets, 187 00:10:59,559 --> 00:11:00,480 Speaker 2: which could be China. 188 00:11:00,559 --> 00:11:02,319 Speaker 1: Has this helped them. 189 00:11:02,720 --> 00:11:05,960 Speaker 6: The two answers to that question. So the first one, yes, 190 00:11:06,160 --> 00:11:08,880 Speaker 6: it helps China in that not just Africa, but I 191 00:11:08,880 --> 00:11:12,199 Speaker 6: guess the rest of the world is now seeking alternative 192 00:11:12,559 --> 00:11:16,839 Speaker 6: trade partners given the more inward US policies. So it 193 00:11:16,880 --> 00:11:21,280 Speaker 6: does imply that countries globally, including from Africa, are more 194 00:11:21,280 --> 00:11:26,840 Speaker 6: receptive to exploring trade relationships with other countries, including China. 195 00:11:27,280 --> 00:11:30,720 Speaker 6: That's the upside and that's what we expect to happen. 196 00:11:31,160 --> 00:11:36,040 Speaker 2: Chrishma, it seems like this relationship between Africa and China 197 00:11:36,200 --> 00:11:38,119 Speaker 2: has ramped up recently. 198 00:11:39,040 --> 00:11:39,880 Speaker 1: Is that true? 199 00:11:40,480 --> 00:11:43,719 Speaker 2: And how does Africa see its relationship with China over 200 00:11:43,720 --> 00:11:44,360 Speaker 2: the long term? 201 00:11:44,440 --> 00:11:44,600 Speaker 5: Then? 202 00:11:44,679 --> 00:11:46,720 Speaker 1: Is it likely to be a priority. 203 00:11:47,080 --> 00:11:49,000 Speaker 5: I think it would be fair to say that it's 204 00:11:49,120 --> 00:11:54,080 Speaker 5: ramped up recently because of the economic linkages and how 205 00:11:54,120 --> 00:11:59,000 Speaker 5: attractive Africa's critical minerals have become to China in this 206 00:11:59,200 --> 00:12:02,720 Speaker 5: race against the United States. You know, these minerals are 207 00:12:02,760 --> 00:12:06,400 Speaker 5: really important for future industries, and I think that is 208 00:12:06,440 --> 00:12:09,960 Speaker 5: one of the reasons why Beijing has been so keen 209 00:12:10,200 --> 00:12:14,360 Speaker 5: to develop this relationship further with Africa. But I think 210 00:12:14,400 --> 00:12:17,600 Speaker 5: it's also important to remember that it goes back a 211 00:12:17,640 --> 00:12:21,520 Speaker 5: long way. In fact, you know, Chinas supported several of 212 00:12:21,559 --> 00:12:25,680 Speaker 5: the African liberation movements during the Cold War, and again 213 00:12:25,960 --> 00:12:28,040 Speaker 5: for similar reasons in the sense that it was partly 214 00:12:28,080 --> 00:12:31,840 Speaker 5: to diminish the West's influence on the continent. And it's 215 00:12:31,920 --> 00:12:35,000 Speaker 5: also hugely important for China to have these votes at 216 00:12:35,040 --> 00:12:38,439 Speaker 5: the United Nations countries that support it and its position 217 00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:42,199 Speaker 5: on things like Taiwan, for instance, and I think it 218 00:12:42,240 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 5: sees Africa as a really reliable partner in that situation. 219 00:12:46,920 --> 00:12:50,040 Speaker 5: Eswatini is the only African nation that actually has diplomatic 220 00:12:50,080 --> 00:12:53,559 Speaker 5: relations with Taiwan, which of course Beijing claims as its 221 00:12:53,559 --> 00:12:57,120 Speaker 5: own territory, and Sijinping Presidents Sigin Ping has talked about 222 00:12:57,160 --> 00:13:01,439 Speaker 5: unification with Taiwan, either through peaceful means or by force. 223 00:13:01,840 --> 00:13:07,000 Speaker 5: So having allies in Africa that can effectively become proxies 224 00:13:07,080 --> 00:13:11,040 Speaker 5: for China's position at the United Nations is a hugely 225 00:13:11,360 --> 00:13:15,000 Speaker 5: important diplomatic aspect of this relationship. In fact, I don't 226 00:13:15,000 --> 00:13:17,160 Speaker 5: know how many people listening know this, but in nineteen 227 00:13:17,240 --> 00:13:20,160 Speaker 5: seventy one it was African votes at the United Nations 228 00:13:20,440 --> 00:13:24,560 Speaker 5: that helped Beijing displace Taiwan and claim China's seat on 229 00:13:24,600 --> 00:13:28,120 Speaker 5: the Security Council. So I think, yes, it's true that 230 00:13:28,400 --> 00:13:32,720 Speaker 5: the ties between the content and China have significantly upgraded, 231 00:13:32,760 --> 00:13:34,880 Speaker 5: as we've heard from Yvonne, in terms of the actual 232 00:13:34,880 --> 00:13:37,199 Speaker 5: investments that have gone in in the last few years. 233 00:13:37,520 --> 00:13:40,280 Speaker 5: But this goes back a long way, and I think 234 00:13:40,360 --> 00:13:43,559 Speaker 5: that's something people forget from time to time, that this 235 00:13:43,640 --> 00:13:47,160 Speaker 5: is a relationship sometimes that it's based on ideology as well, 236 00:13:47,559 --> 00:13:49,720 Speaker 5: and I think that's why it's stood the test of 237 00:13:49,760 --> 00:13:52,240 Speaker 5: time and being so fruitful for both sides. 238 00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:56,720 Speaker 2: Wow, so perhaps some age old partnership being renewed for 239 00:13:56,800 --> 00:13:59,440 Speaker 2: the modern age. You might say, Krishna and Levon, thank 240 00:13:59,440 --> 00:14:02,040 Speaker 2: you for joining me both today. And you can read 241 00:14:02,120 --> 00:14:05,440 Speaker 2: Karrishma's report on Bloomberg platforms. Now we'll put a link 242 00:14:05,480 --> 00:14:10,120 Speaker 2: in the show notes. Here's some other stories from the 243 00:14:10,160 --> 00:14:13,840 Speaker 2: region we've been following this week. The world's cocoa crunch 244 00:14:13,920 --> 00:14:17,079 Speaker 2: is finally showing signs of a turnaround, as better harvest 245 00:14:17,120 --> 00:14:21,040 Speaker 2: in South America and waning demand put supplies on track 246 00:14:21,120 --> 00:14:24,240 Speaker 2: for a back to back surplus. The improvement will help 247 00:14:24,280 --> 00:14:28,880 Speaker 2: replenish global inventories that had been depleted following consecutive poor 248 00:14:28,920 --> 00:14:33,720 Speaker 2: harvest in West Africa, a major growing region, and Botswana's 249 00:14:33,760 --> 00:14:36,760 Speaker 2: president aims to complete a deal to take a majority 250 00:14:36,800 --> 00:14:39,760 Speaker 2: stake into Beers by the end of next month, even 251 00:14:39,760 --> 00:14:44,000 Speaker 2: as his administration and other potential buyers continue negotiations with 252 00:14:44,080 --> 00:14:48,520 Speaker 2: the diamond company's controlling shareholder. Anglo American, is looking to 253 00:14:48,600 --> 00:14:52,120 Speaker 2: divest its eighty five percent stake into Beers, which mines 254 00:14:52,240 --> 00:14:55,160 Speaker 2: most of its gems in the southern African nation, as 255 00:14:55,240 --> 00:14:58,680 Speaker 2: part of a restructuring process that began sixteen months ago. 256 00:14:59,360 --> 00:15:02,520 Speaker 2: You can follow so these stories across Bloomberg, including the 257 00:15:02,600 --> 00:15:05,320 Speaker 2: Next African Newsletter. Will put a link to that in 258 00:15:05,360 --> 00:15:11,120 Speaker 2: the show notes. This program was produced by Adrian Bradley. 259 00:15:11,720 --> 00:15:14,320 Speaker 2: Don't forget to follow and review the show wherever you 260 00:15:14,400 --> 00:15:15,720 Speaker 2: usually get your podcasts. 261 00:15:16,200 --> 00:15:18,240 Speaker 1: I'm tia Adebayo. Thank you for listening.