WEBVTT - Damien Chazelle / "First Man" 0:00:00.040 --> 0:00:17.560 M M. You're listening to playback a Variety I Heart 0:00:17.640 --> 0:00:21.400 Radio podcast. I'm your host, Variety Awards editor Chris Tapley. 0:00:21.760 --> 0:00:24.280 We have a return guest this week, Oscar winning director 0:00:24.360 --> 0:00:28.240 Damien Chazelle. His new film First Man with Ryan Gosling, 0:00:28.320 --> 0:00:31.120 launched into the Oscar season last month at Festivals in Venice, 0:00:31.200 --> 0:00:33.960 Tell You Right in Toronto, we talked about his approach 0:00:34.000 --> 0:00:36.760 to bringing Astro not Neil Armstrong's story to the screen, 0:00:36.840 --> 0:00:38.720 and take a look back at that crazy La La 0:00:38.840 --> 0:00:42.280 Land Moonlight Academy Awards moment two years ago, among other things. 0:00:42.800 --> 0:01:06.000 So sit tight, this is playback. UM, London, then Florida, Florida, 0:01:06.280 --> 0:01:13.760 keep canaveral. That makes sense that an interesting I gotta 0:01:13.800 --> 0:01:19.680 hit Florida, lots of press down. Yeah, the calls, you 0:01:19.760 --> 0:01:25.000 gotta hit that that. UM, then New York then d 0:01:25.560 --> 0:01:27.400 Or then d C or the New York Inn d C, 0:01:28.319 --> 0:01:31.679 then like Atlanta, Denver. I don't know. I don't come 0:01:31.680 --> 0:01:37.360 back here for three weeks, are you ready? I only 0:01:37.440 --> 0:01:40.880 recently realized that the three week part, Like when I 0:01:41.319 --> 0:01:43.080 I had this ideam I had that I was coming 0:01:43.120 --> 0:01:46.160 back for a day or so after Europe, and then 0:01:46.200 --> 0:01:48.400 I only then I happened to Actually, it's the problem 0:01:48.400 --> 0:01:53.040 is not looking at my calendar. Yeah. Yeah. Then I 0:01:53.080 --> 0:01:55.040 looked at the calendar and went, oh no, there's no 0:01:55.240 --> 0:02:00.240 l A in here, all right for three weeks. So yeah, 0:02:00.840 --> 0:02:06.000 I'm good, all right, all right, man, I can see 0:02:06.000 --> 0:02:09.400 you again. Yeah you too. I was the rest to 0:02:09.440 --> 0:02:11.680 tell you what it was awesome? Yeah, it always is 0:02:12.000 --> 0:02:14.320 it always? Are you able to really enjoy it? Yeah? 0:02:14.400 --> 0:02:16.240 I tell you right, this is like one of the 0:02:16.240 --> 0:02:18.519 few that I'm able to enjoy. Yeah, you can actually 0:02:18.520 --> 0:02:24.360 see movies. Yeah, it would be a little more Christmas 0:02:25.160 --> 0:02:27.080 do your own. I did. I think everyone had funny 0:02:27.080 --> 0:02:31.040 of your party. You know, one drink is all you 0:02:31.080 --> 0:02:36.320 need when you're that high up, and you were I was. 0:02:36.400 --> 0:02:39.360 I was talking to justin a lot of actually yeah, okay, 0:02:39.400 --> 0:02:42.760 got it, And we're already up and running. So let's 0:02:42.800 --> 0:02:48.040 dive in here with Damian Chazelle, the Oscar winning director 0:02:48.080 --> 0:02:50.640 of First Man. Thanks for coming back on the show. 0:02:50.800 --> 0:02:53.200 Thanks for one of our How many repeat guests have 0:02:53.280 --> 0:02:55.760 we had? Now? I think just you and Able d 0:02:55.840 --> 0:03:00.080 Verney might be the only guest so far. We're to 0:03:00.160 --> 0:03:02.800 try to, like, you know, have some some return some 0:03:02.840 --> 0:03:04.960 returning champs if you will. You don't tend to have 0:03:04.960 --> 0:03:07.720 people come back. It's just they don't like me. That's 0:03:08.160 --> 0:03:10.160 it's the one and done kind of. I don't want 0:03:10.160 --> 0:03:15.040 to do that one again. The flag it we tried, 0:03:15.080 --> 0:03:16.560 you know, for a while, we tried to just kind of, 0:03:16.600 --> 0:03:20.440 you know, if they have something, let's not do it 0:03:20.480 --> 0:03:23.040 the next year again, Let's do it every other year 0:03:23.080 --> 0:03:25.640 if anything. But now it's like, screw it, Let's just 0:03:25.639 --> 0:03:29.320 have some regulars, you know, be a regular name. I'm happy, 0:03:29.360 --> 0:03:32.360 too happy to be a regular. This movie is awesome. 0:03:32.480 --> 0:03:35.160 We've talked about it a lot already. Actually, and tell 0:03:35.200 --> 0:03:38.080 you're right, uh, you know the story of Neil Armstrong, 0:03:38.920 --> 0:03:42.000 you know, the Apollo eleven mission, it's really all of Apollo. 0:03:42.400 --> 0:03:44.000 You handled more of Apollo in this movie than I 0:03:44.040 --> 0:03:47.000 kind of thought you would, well and and and geminate. 0:03:47.000 --> 0:03:50.320 And we tried to basically start right when Neil entered Nasa, 0:03:50.560 --> 0:03:54.520 so sixty one and uh or well you know, officially 0:03:54.520 --> 0:03:58.840 sixty two, and take it up till was that like 0:03:59.080 --> 0:04:01.720 the immediate, like this is this is where we should begin, 0:04:01.760 --> 0:04:03.720 Like what was the journey of finding where you should 0:04:03.720 --> 0:04:07.520 start a story with Neil Armstrong. I guess I think 0:04:07.560 --> 0:04:11.080 it was, um, well, it was always through the perspective 0:04:11.120 --> 0:04:13.640 of the moon landing. For me, that was that was 0:04:13.720 --> 0:04:18.719 the just that accomplishment. Um, obviously it's the most famous 0:04:18.880 --> 0:04:22.320 thing about him. But but but but it also just 0:04:22.360 --> 0:04:26.200 seemed like for such a famous event, an event that 0:04:26.680 --> 0:04:31.719 could use some demystifying, you know, um, maybe de romanticizing, 0:04:32.200 --> 0:04:33.880 it felt like there was a lot left to sort 0:04:33.880 --> 0:04:36.160 of unpack in that event, and certainly would lead up 0:04:36.160 --> 0:04:39.040 to it. So it seemed like, you know, even if 0:04:39.040 --> 0:04:41.240 this weren't a movie about Neil Armstrong, it felt like 0:04:41.279 --> 0:04:44.360 a proper place to begin would be roughly when Kennedy 0:04:44.520 --> 0:04:46.960 made his famous announcement, you know, about landing a man 0:04:47.000 --> 0:04:48.480 on the moon by the end of the decade that 0:04:48.600 --> 0:04:51.120 was sixty one, and you know, and then we would 0:04:51.360 --> 0:04:53.680 sort of set that as the as the gambit, the 0:04:53.720 --> 0:04:56.880 opening gambit, and then uh and then end with with 0:04:57.000 --> 0:05:00.320 that being turned into a reality. Um. But you know, 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:04.800 it's certain certainly coincides nicely with Niel's Neil's life, because 0:05:04.839 --> 0:05:06.320 those were the years that he I mean he he 0:05:06.520 --> 0:05:10.200 he joined up NASA right around the same time that 0:05:10.200 --> 0:05:13.440 that this sort of moon shot became a national goal 0:05:13.960 --> 0:05:16.839 right at the top of the decade. And you know, 0:05:16.880 --> 0:05:19.760 so some of the Mercury missions had happened. Obviously Americans 0:05:19.800 --> 0:05:22.680 had been in space already, but um, but just to 0:05:22.720 --> 0:05:26.800 a small degree. And uh so trying to kind of 0:05:26.839 --> 0:05:29.440 see both through his eyes and through the program's eyes 0:05:29.440 --> 0:05:33.160 as a whole. Um, you know, how you go from 0:05:33.200 --> 0:05:36.640 there to there? How you go from that sort of uh, 0:05:36.640 --> 0:05:41.919 those first beginnings of space exploration to traveling not in 0:05:42.000 --> 0:05:45.200 Earth orbit, but thirty times thirty two times the distance 0:05:45.240 --> 0:05:48.240 of Earth from Earth, or the size of Earth from 0:05:48.240 --> 0:05:50.360 Earth all the way to the Moon and back. Um, 0:05:50.520 --> 0:05:52.920 how you do that in the span of basically eight 0:05:53.000 --> 0:05:56.520 or nine years. Yeah, it's insane. Yeah, when you look 0:05:56.520 --> 0:05:58.680 at it that way, it's certainly it struck me as insane. 0:05:58.680 --> 0:06:00.560 And when I looked at the geograph or thing, you know, 0:06:00.560 --> 0:06:02.720 you actually kind of look at the diagram of of 0:06:02.800 --> 0:06:04.680 you know, to scale of Earth to the Moon, and 0:06:05.800 --> 0:06:08.200 it strikes you on a primal level. Even more so, 0:06:08.240 --> 0:06:12.080 it just seems like, you know, for such a again, 0:06:12.960 --> 0:06:16.159 such a famous event, it's almost like we we we 0:06:16.240 --> 0:06:18.360 take for granted how insane it was. Yeah, when we 0:06:18.400 --> 0:06:20.240 had you on the show two years ago actually, which 0:06:20.279 --> 0:06:22.200 is that's crazy too, by the way that that's been 0:06:22.240 --> 0:06:26.200 two years. But you had this quote that that I've 0:06:26.240 --> 0:06:28.440 been using a lot, which was just you. You wanted 0:06:28.480 --> 0:06:30.320 to put us in the mindset of this thing that 0:06:30.440 --> 0:06:34.960 hasn't happened yet, and it's gonna happen, and everyone's coming 0:06:35.000 --> 0:06:36.640 together to do it, and it's the craziest thing anyone's 0:06:36.640 --> 0:06:39.039 tried to do. And it's like, it's the truth of it. 0:06:39.080 --> 0:06:40.480 I mean, it's just you watch it and you're in 0:06:40.600 --> 0:06:44.720 awe of the accomplishment. I also felt like, and I'm 0:06:44.760 --> 0:06:46.039 gonna get this out of the way at the top. 0:06:46.640 --> 0:06:48.919 You've probably been asked about it plenty by now, but 0:06:49.000 --> 0:06:51.160 I can't believe anyone could watch this film and not 0:06:51.240 --> 0:06:55.279 feel a sense of American pride as well. And you 0:06:55.279 --> 0:06:59.159 know there's been this this this whatever Faul controversy about 0:06:59.360 --> 0:07:02.400 the fact that you've it and depict the planting of 0:07:02.400 --> 0:07:04.120 the flag. What you and I have talked about you 0:07:04.320 --> 0:07:06.080 when once you get to the moon in this movie, 0:07:06.839 --> 0:07:08.720 it's very reflective of what you've done the whole film, 0:07:08.760 --> 0:07:10.920 which is your staying subjective when the alarm strong and 0:07:10.960 --> 0:07:14.320 that event was kneel and buzzed together, and you're showing 0:07:14.480 --> 0:07:16.840 Neil at this creator and there's something very personal was 0:07:16.840 --> 0:07:18.440 happening in his life at the time. So have you 0:07:18.480 --> 0:07:22.560 been kind of just surprised that this snowballed as a 0:07:22.640 --> 0:07:29.600 quote controversy. Uh well, uh, yeah, to a certain extent. 0:07:29.680 --> 0:07:34.920 But you know, it's also um this it's it's a 0:07:35.080 --> 0:07:37.920 very important moment, just the moon landing as a whole, 0:07:37.960 --> 0:07:40.440 and so you kind of expect people to have a 0:07:40.600 --> 0:07:45.239 very sort of profound emotional associations with it, um, whether 0:07:45.280 --> 0:07:48.520 they lived through it or didn't, you know, um and uh, 0:07:48.680 --> 0:07:52.040 certainly it's it's one of those defining moments for America 0:07:52.080 --> 0:07:54.200 as a country. You know. It's it's so much of 0:07:54.240 --> 0:07:59.120 American identity, um is wrapped up in a really beautiful way. 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:03.240 I think, um, um, certainly the past fifty years of 0:08:03.280 --> 0:08:08.080 American identity wrapped up in that event. So you I think, uh, 0:08:08.240 --> 0:08:12.800 one should expect that you know that that um there's 0:08:13.480 --> 0:08:15.800 you know, people are gonna have powerful associations with it, 0:08:15.920 --> 0:08:17.880 and uh and so you're always aware, I mean, not 0:08:17.920 --> 0:08:19.840 with just this event, but with any kind of any 0:08:19.840 --> 0:08:21.320 time you're doing. I mean, this was my first time 0:08:21.360 --> 0:08:25.960 doing a movie based on historical, historical events. But you know, 0:08:26.600 --> 0:08:28.240 if you're doing a movie about an iconic event or 0:08:28.240 --> 0:08:31.080 an iconic series of events or an iconic character, there 0:08:31.080 --> 0:08:35.680 canna be things that that you uh, that you want 0:08:35.679 --> 0:08:37.480 to show and things that you don't have time to 0:08:37.480 --> 0:08:39.760 show and uh, and you have to set a sort 0:08:39.800 --> 0:08:41.880 of a sort of guideline of rules for yourself at 0:08:41.880 --> 0:08:43.600 the outset. So I think for us, for me, for 0:08:43.679 --> 0:08:46.360 Josh Senger, for Ryan, as we were making this movie, 0:08:46.400 --> 0:08:49.920 it was just about, let's whenever we can, uh, let's 0:08:49.920 --> 0:08:52.960 show the things that people didn't see. Uh. Let's show 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:56.560 the things that people didn't know about Neil, about Geminy, 0:08:56.600 --> 0:09:00.440 about Apollo. Um. Let's focus on that on told story. 0:09:00.559 --> 0:09:03.120 And let that be basically what dictates what we show 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:05.480 and what we uh and what we don't show. Yeah, 0:09:05.520 --> 0:09:08.120 And for Neil, it's there's a very personal, tragic thing 0:09:08.160 --> 0:09:10.200 that happens to him at the beginning of the film, 0:09:10.240 --> 0:09:12.679 and I'm that that threat is played out all the 0:09:12.679 --> 0:09:14.000 way through the end of the film and something that 0:09:14.000 --> 0:09:15.320 happens on the moon and I don't want to, like, 0:09:15.760 --> 0:09:16.920 I guess I don't want to talk about it in 0:09:17.040 --> 0:09:21.000 terms of spoilers, but I do want to ask the 0:09:21.080 --> 0:09:24.520 moment that happens on the moon regarding him and something 0:09:24.600 --> 0:09:28.480 very personal that happened to him felt such like a 0:09:28.679 --> 0:09:33.600 narrative sense of closure that it was. It kind of 0:09:33.600 --> 0:09:35.480 felt like it was too perfect. So the question is 0:09:35.920 --> 0:09:41.240 was it embellished? Was it made up? Uh? It was? 0:09:42.720 --> 0:09:45.880 It's uh No, it wasn't made up, but it was. 0:09:46.000 --> 0:09:49.000 But it's it's unlike certain events in the movie, it's 0:09:49.040 --> 0:09:55.559 not something that we can confirm with absolute confidence actually happened. Yeah, 0:09:55.600 --> 0:09:57.000 it's for me. It was such a moment when I 0:09:57.040 --> 0:09:59.280 saw it in the movie and that the emotion really 0:09:59.280 --> 0:10:01.880 got me there. It's it's it's uh, well, it's kind 0:10:01.880 --> 0:10:04.199 of how I felt when I first uh, when Josh 0:10:04.240 --> 0:10:07.480 and I first heard of it. Uh. It's a conjecture 0:10:07.520 --> 0:10:10.160 basically too. It was a conjecture by Niel's biographer, his 0:10:10.240 --> 0:10:12.679 a storian, Jim Hanson. It was a conjecture that was 0:10:12.720 --> 0:10:15.960 then backed up um uh, or at least sort of 0:10:16.040 --> 0:10:19.240 suggested as well by Neil's sister June, who Ryan and 0:10:19.320 --> 0:10:22.960 I got to spend some time with um uh and 0:10:23.360 --> 0:10:27.960 uh it was I found a very beautiful conjecture hypothesis. 0:10:28.240 --> 0:10:32.040 Neil himself never confirmed or denied. He basically never talked about, 0:10:32.160 --> 0:10:36.120 refused to talk about or disclose, um, you know what 0:10:36.200 --> 0:10:39.559 he might have done on the you know what we're 0:10:39.559 --> 0:10:44.559 talking about while on the moon. But uh so, again, 0:10:44.600 --> 0:10:47.559 we don't have an absolute confirmation that had happened, but 0:10:48.040 --> 0:10:50.600 I'd like to think it did, and certainly people who 0:10:50.640 --> 0:10:53.280 were very close to Neil um I like to think 0:10:53.320 --> 0:10:55.560 it did. So that's where we got there. It wasn't 0:10:55.559 --> 0:10:56.960 an idea that we came up with, but it was. 0:10:57.040 --> 0:10:58.480 But it was something that as soon as we heard 0:10:59.080 --> 0:11:02.439 it felt felt like a beautiful place to try to. 0:11:02.720 --> 0:11:05.559 It sort of helped dictate, Okay, if that's sort of 0:11:05.600 --> 0:11:07.880 the the that's the light at the end of the tunnel, 0:11:07.880 --> 0:11:10.120 if that's the station that the train needs to pull 0:11:10.200 --> 0:11:13.240 into at the end, how can we best sort of 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:15.600 lay the lay the pipe to get there. That's good 0:11:15.679 --> 0:11:17.480 enough for me, and frankly I came to the conclusion 0:11:17.520 --> 0:11:19.440 if you if it had been made up, that it 0:11:19.440 --> 0:11:22.160 would have been fined by me because you're telling a story, 0:11:22.280 --> 0:11:25.240 you know, and that that happens to close the story 0:11:25.320 --> 0:11:28.480 nicely and all, Yeah, all of that's good enough. For me, 0:11:28.520 --> 0:11:30.679 I mean, it's just again such a profound moment and 0:11:30.720 --> 0:11:33.800 really interesting because the movie for me is it's it's 0:11:33.800 --> 0:11:36.040 filmed in a kind of claustrophobic way at times, It's 0:11:36.040 --> 0:11:39.720 filmed in a kind of languid, almost removed way at times, 0:11:39.720 --> 0:11:43.640 which I came to feel reflected him is a very calculated, 0:11:44.400 --> 0:11:46.319 uh you know, I don't want to call him emotionless, 0:11:46.320 --> 0:11:49.040 but everything is buried and the guy, and I kind 0:11:49.040 --> 0:11:51.199 of felt like the filmmaking reflected that there's not you're 0:11:51.200 --> 0:11:54.640 not cutting outside of the spacecraft whenever you're doing all 0:11:54.640 --> 0:11:57.080 the various missions and everything's right there with them, and 0:11:57.120 --> 0:11:59.160 then when you get this moment on the moon, that 0:11:59.240 --> 0:12:01.640 release happens. I kind of feel like some people that 0:12:01.720 --> 0:12:05.280 work for and other people maybe the vibe of the 0:12:05.280 --> 0:12:07.679 film up until then just maybe maybe they checked out 0:12:07.800 --> 0:12:09.520 or something. I don't know, because I've just heard interesting 0:12:09.679 --> 0:12:11.600 varying takes on this. I just wanted to ask you 0:12:11.640 --> 0:12:14.960 about that, like, how did you come to approach this 0:12:15.040 --> 0:12:18.520 material with with film language, because it's so different from 0:12:18.520 --> 0:12:20.679 Whiplash and La La Lalla Land, which are you know, 0:12:20.760 --> 0:12:24.360 kind of I guess frenetic by comparison, but just talk 0:12:24.400 --> 0:12:27.040 about that a little bit. I guess uh yeah, I 0:12:27.040 --> 0:12:31.040 mean I think, um, from the outset, I think it 0:12:31.120 --> 0:12:36.840 was just about trying to uh uh trying to make 0:12:36.880 --> 0:12:42.520 everything feel as real as possible. Um. And so for me, 0:12:42.559 --> 0:12:44.920 I think that started with the archival footage that you know, 0:12:44.920 --> 0:12:48.280 there's just which of which there's so much, um you 0:12:48.280 --> 0:12:53.079 know of of all the the the the Apollo and 0:12:53.160 --> 0:12:56.959 Jimny missions, uh you know, NASA on the ground. Um. 0:12:57.240 --> 0:13:00.120 Also obviously the Life magazine photographs of the ass or 0:13:00.120 --> 0:13:03.480 not in their families. Um. So basically just the documentary 0:13:03.600 --> 0:13:10.080 visual material that exists of those people at that time. UM. 0:13:10.120 --> 0:13:12.120 I just kind of fell in love with how all 0:13:12.160 --> 0:13:17.079 of that felt and and um uh that I think dictated, 0:13:17.559 --> 0:13:20.800 uh to a large degree, the look of the film. Uh, 0:13:20.840 --> 0:13:25.200 the sort of uh uh super sixteen or or thirty 0:13:25.200 --> 0:13:30.120 five two perf kind of grainy um handheld look um. Um. 0:13:30.160 --> 0:13:31.679 But it also I think, you know, sort of want 0:13:31.720 --> 0:13:35.040 of dictating dictating the style in the sense that you 0:13:35.040 --> 0:13:37.320 you know, if you're trying to make the movie as 0:13:37.320 --> 0:13:39.800 though you're a documentary crew kind of on the ground, um, 0:13:39.960 --> 0:13:42.120 following these astronauts around or sort of slipping into the 0:13:42.120 --> 0:13:45.120 spacecraft with them or into their house with them. Um, 0:13:45.160 --> 0:13:47.720 you can get very physically close to them, but there's 0:13:47.720 --> 0:13:49.800 also always going to be a certain distance that you have. 0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:53.720 There's a certain distance in any verite cinema, verite filmmaking 0:13:53.800 --> 0:13:57.559 that um um, because you don't have the sort of 0:13:57.600 --> 0:14:01.040 the you don't have the trappings that fiction filmmaking give 0:14:01.080 --> 0:14:03.240 you to sort of plunge into a character. So it 0:14:03.280 --> 0:14:05.800 became this kind of balance and this challenge for for 0:14:05.960 --> 0:14:08.920 Ryan and Claire and and all the actors, and and 0:14:08.920 --> 0:14:11.920 and for us to figure out that balance of how 0:14:11.920 --> 0:14:13.959 where we're where were we going to kind of slip 0:14:14.000 --> 0:14:16.840 into their subjectivity in a way the documentary filmmaking doesn't 0:14:16.840 --> 0:14:20.400 allow you to do uh. Traditional verite filmmaking, you know, 0:14:20.400 --> 0:14:22.680 wouldn't allow you to do uh. And when we're we 0:14:22.720 --> 0:14:25.520 going to be really faithful to okay, we're truly a 0:14:25.520 --> 0:14:28.600 fly on the wall here and not intervening, observing being 0:14:28.640 --> 0:14:32.040 wires and just kind of uh peeking over people's shoulders 0:14:32.040 --> 0:14:34.360 to see what's going on, but not necessarily interacting with it. 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.920 And that was sort of just the newsreel versus the uh, 0:14:38.080 --> 0:14:42.680 the more kind of you know, subjectively emotional approach, and 0:14:42.680 --> 0:14:47.000 we tried to try to sort of, yeah, slide in 0:14:47.040 --> 0:14:49.560 and out of of one kind of mode, but try 0:14:49.600 --> 0:14:51.680 to keep it feeling the same. Well as those the 0:14:51.760 --> 0:14:53.880 aim at least some of that, like it grounds them 0:14:53.880 --> 0:14:56.600 in situating the domestic, the domesticity of it. All. These 0:14:56.600 --> 0:14:59.720 guys are superheroes, so like the contrast that is really 0:14:59.720 --> 0:15:03.720 interest thing too. Yeah. Um, last time you were on, 0:15:04.640 --> 0:15:06.760 I had asked you how how did the kind of tour, 0:15:06.920 --> 0:15:10.040 if you will, of La La Land compare with Whiplash, 0:15:10.080 --> 0:15:13.240 meaning specifically the festival reveals of these films you had 0:15:13.240 --> 0:15:16.160 Whiplash and some Man you had La La Land in Venice. 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:19.880 Talk about first Man and how this experience so far 0:15:19.960 --> 0:15:22.280 we're talking earlier in the game than we did last time, 0:15:22.320 --> 0:15:25.360 but how this experience so far is uh compared to 0:15:25.480 --> 0:15:28.160 last time? I mean, were you were you reticent to 0:15:28.280 --> 0:15:32.880 open Venice again? Uh? Well, you know, I in in 0:15:32.880 --> 0:15:35.360 in some I mean yeah, in some ways I think, 0:15:35.400 --> 0:15:39.000 but it had more to do with just, uh, you know, 0:15:39.480 --> 0:15:42.400 the schedule we were sort of confronted with, Um, but 0:15:42.480 --> 0:15:44.960 that that in a way actually was sort of regardless 0:15:45.040 --> 0:15:46.960 of of of Venice. It was just you know, we 0:15:47.000 --> 0:15:48.800 knew we had to finish the movie by a certain 0:15:49.040 --> 0:15:51.160 point in time. It was less time than we had 0:15:51.160 --> 0:15:55.320 had to addit La La land um, which which in 0:15:55.360 --> 0:15:57.960 some ways, uh well, in all ways was an easier 0:15:58.000 --> 0:16:01.800 film to edit. Um uh, less footage and more wonders 0:16:01.920 --> 0:16:04.680 and more just kind of predesigned, whereas this was sort 0:16:04.680 --> 0:16:06.280 of a lot of this was discovered on set and 0:16:06.320 --> 0:16:08.720 then discovered in the cutting room like a documentary would be. 0:16:08.760 --> 0:16:12.720 So so that plus the technical challenges on this, we're 0:16:13.120 --> 0:16:16.560 sort of another you know, kind of a just of 0:16:16.680 --> 0:16:19.400 another level than than anything I dealt with before. So 0:16:20.040 --> 0:16:22.080 it was just a scramble too, or felt like a 0:16:22.120 --> 0:16:24.960 scramble to kind of get all the pieces in line 0:16:25.200 --> 0:16:28.160 and uh and feel like we you know, had had 0:16:28.600 --> 0:16:30.920 had a handle on things in time, and luckily it 0:16:31.000 --> 0:16:33.800 all came together. But you know, it wasn't without a 0:16:33.800 --> 0:16:36.440 lot of a lot of sort of sweating and hair 0:16:36.480 --> 0:16:39.320 pulling and hard work from the from from the Tom 0:16:39.360 --> 0:16:41.800 Cross and and and the sound team and the effects 0:16:41.800 --> 0:16:44.280 team and everyone. You seem to be kind of thankful 0:16:44.320 --> 0:16:46.360 for that when it came to Whiplash, kind of getting 0:16:46.360 --> 0:16:50.440 it together. Ironically, the ironically this felt closer to Whiplash 0:16:50.480 --> 0:16:52.840 than than it did to La La Land in terms 0:16:52.920 --> 0:16:55.200 of the in terms at least of the post production 0:16:55.240 --> 0:16:57.080 of it having so much time to second guess what 0:16:57.120 --> 0:16:58.960 you're doing and stuff like that, which is what you 0:16:58.960 --> 0:17:01.320 did on La La Land. Yeah, yeah, whereas here it 0:17:01.400 --> 0:17:03.120 was kind of yeah, there was a little less of that, 0:17:03.240 --> 0:17:05.879 and uh, we had Yeah, we had more time than 0:17:05.880 --> 0:17:07.960 we did on Whiplash, but more, but we also had 0:17:08.000 --> 0:17:10.600 more footage and a bigger story and bigger technical challenges. 0:17:10.680 --> 0:17:14.480 So so it felt, you know, it felt like a 0:17:14.520 --> 0:17:18.680 similar pace. Um. And then I guess in some ways 0:17:18.760 --> 0:17:21.240 that pace just sort of is unrelenting until the moment 0:17:21.280 --> 0:17:24.720 you lock. Uh, and then like the moment we finished, 0:17:24.720 --> 0:17:27.399 I hopped on a plane to to you know, to Venice, 0:17:27.400 --> 0:17:29.600 and we were premiering the next day, so it was 0:17:30.480 --> 0:17:33.000 I didn't really have time to sort of have that 0:17:33.119 --> 0:17:35.280 kind of which in some ways it is probably good 0:17:35.280 --> 0:17:37.640 for me to have that sort of post finishing, pre 0:17:37.760 --> 0:17:40.960 premiering sort of stress. It just kind of one rolled 0:17:41.040 --> 0:17:46.560 right into the other. Um. I wanted to ask you, like, well, 0:17:46.600 --> 0:17:48.200 first let's talk about the score. You know, I talked 0:17:48.200 --> 0:17:51.040 to Justin Herwitz and tell you write a lot about this. 0:17:51.160 --> 0:17:55.000 The score is phenomenal. Um. Sometimes it has this kind 0:17:55.000 --> 0:17:58.320 of metronome ticking, kind of propulsive quality. Sometimes it's very 0:17:58.359 --> 0:18:04.199 emotional and sweeping, and it's way what was I guess 0:18:04.280 --> 0:18:06.560 the the initially? You know, I always asked this kind 0:18:06.600 --> 0:18:08.840 of question, but just the colonel, what was the idea of, Okay, 0:18:08.920 --> 0:18:11.760 the musical identity of this film should convey X? What 0:18:11.960 --> 0:18:16.399 what was that? I think it was more than anything 0:18:16.440 --> 0:18:21.320 trying to convey the loss of a child, trying to 0:18:21.359 --> 0:18:25.840 convey a parent, um, a parent's grief over the loss 0:18:25.840 --> 0:18:28.080 of a child, and and and uh. So I think 0:18:28.119 --> 0:18:30.560 it's started with not not so much trying to convey 0:18:30.760 --> 0:18:35.080 you know, what's what's the what's the you know, how 0:18:35.119 --> 0:18:37.040 do you score the moon landing? Or how do you 0:18:37.080 --> 0:18:40.560 score uh, you know, space missions. It was more what 0:18:40.560 --> 0:18:43.640 what's what's what's the central emotion of the movie? Um, 0:18:43.720 --> 0:18:47.840 the emotion that sort of guides everything? And and and 0:18:48.000 --> 0:18:50.360 uh and what is a melody that can sort of 0:18:50.440 --> 0:18:55.119 communicate that? Um? And so so it started there. It 0:18:55.200 --> 0:18:57.520 started with Justin at the piano trying to find that 0:18:57.600 --> 0:18:59.800 melody UM, and then trying to find sort of subs 0:19:00.000 --> 0:19:02.439 beames around it once we landed on a central melody 0:19:02.440 --> 0:19:06.800 we liked and and uh and then only after that, um, 0:19:06.960 --> 0:19:09.120 did it become a matter of okay, now, what are 0:19:09.119 --> 0:19:15.399 the sounds that that that best best sort of tie 0:19:15.440 --> 0:19:17.840 Earth to the moon, so to speak in the movie. 0:19:17.920 --> 0:19:19.719 You know that that can be grounded when we need 0:19:19.760 --> 0:19:21.199 them to be intimate when we need them to be, 0:19:21.280 --> 0:19:25.080 but also can suggest the infinite expanse of space. Um. 0:19:25.800 --> 0:19:32.400 And uh yeah, and I think um that that took 0:19:32.400 --> 0:19:34.679 a long time. I remember, I mean actually even before 0:19:37.080 --> 0:19:39.960 almost even before there, they were kind of you know, 0:19:40.000 --> 0:19:41.960 back when we were when we were in early stages 0:19:42.000 --> 0:19:44.360 of the script, Just and I were talking about what 0:19:44.359 --> 0:19:46.400 what the sounds might be. We knew it wouldn't be 0:19:46.720 --> 0:19:49.960 completely traditionally orchestral. We also knew we didn't want it 0:19:50.000 --> 0:19:55.600 to be completely um non orchestral or completely electronic. Um, 0:19:55.680 --> 0:19:59.520 you guys did some trippy stuff it needed. Yeah, we 0:19:59.600 --> 0:20:01.040 just needed We knew it needed to be in some 0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:05.240 kind of you know, in between zone. Um. But it 0:20:05.280 --> 0:20:08.440 took a while to you know, fin fine tune that 0:20:08.640 --> 0:20:11.560 the movie has a definite like sonic signature. Just you know, 0:20:11.640 --> 0:20:16.720 the the sound design is amazing. What was like the 0:20:16.840 --> 0:20:21.240 kind of the biggest technical uh hurdle or whatever with 0:20:21.359 --> 0:20:23.359 this film. I mean, I've heard some interesting things about 0:20:23.400 --> 0:20:26.120 taking some of the archival footage. I think that you 0:20:26.119 --> 0:20:28.280 you did something with the visual effects to expand on 0:20:28.520 --> 0:20:30.480 or something like that, and you know, just different things 0:20:30.520 --> 0:20:33.240 like that. What was like just the biggest challenge technically 0:20:33.240 --> 0:20:36.600 speaking to to get what you wanted to to to 0:20:36.640 --> 0:20:40.640 convey the vision that you wanted to convey here. I guess, uh, well, 0:20:40.800 --> 0:20:45.040 you know the I guess one of the big challenges 0:20:45.160 --> 0:20:50.439 was was what once you try to sort of set 0:20:51.240 --> 0:20:55.679 parameters around around something like in this case, Okay, everything 0:20:55.720 --> 0:20:59.520 needs to feel like a you know, Super sixteen documentary 0:20:59.520 --> 0:21:02.840 and we're sort of expanding from there. Then uh, it 0:21:02.920 --> 0:21:04.880 sort of puts even more of a burden I think 0:21:05.040 --> 0:21:09.639 on on visual effects or sound design, uh you know 0:21:10.560 --> 0:21:14.119 those crafts people who uh in a different kind of movie, 0:21:14.240 --> 0:21:16.000 I think you can get away with stuff being a 0:21:16.040 --> 0:21:18.639 little more obviously synthetic, you know, if you have a 0:21:18.680 --> 0:21:21.679 movie that's sort of fantastical from the get go. Um, 0:21:21.720 --> 0:21:24.040 I think there's a lot more allowance for things to 0:21:24.119 --> 0:21:27.679 either uh to either look computer generated or to sound 0:21:27.880 --> 0:21:31.960 uh heightened or whatever. You sort of you sort of 0:21:32.000 --> 0:21:35.360 go with it. Um and uh, but here we knew 0:21:35.359 --> 0:21:37.720 we weren't we weren't going to have that sort of 0:21:37.720 --> 0:21:40.800 facility that um that that stuff that was fake would 0:21:40.800 --> 0:21:43.600 really look and sound fake. Um, it would be like 0:21:43.600 --> 0:21:48.359