Speaker 1: Welcome to stuff you should know a production of I
Speaker 1: Heart Radio. Hey hey, yeah, and welcome to with the podcast.
Speaker 1: Hey yeah, let's go. I'm Josh, and there's Chuck and
Speaker 1: Jerry's here and this is the podcast toda. What is
Speaker 1: that all about? That was my impression of Broadway. Oh,
Speaker 1: I thought that was your understudy, Matt Frederick. I could
Speaker 1: see that Frederick doing the same thing. I didn't know
Speaker 1: he was my understudy. Is that right? Is he my successor? Now?
Speaker 1: Of course not, there was no successor Ben bowling his
Speaker 1: mind on April Fool's Day. Yeah, that was a good one.
Speaker 1: But we know that wouldn't fly. No, he got we
Speaker 1: loved then. Yeah, of course we don't want to put
Speaker 1: him in that situation. How interesting update. So I was
Speaker 1: just looking, Josh. The reason I thought to do a
Speaker 1: podcast on understudies is twofold. I was in New York
Speaker 1: recently and I went to Broadway and saw Neil Simon's
Speaker 1: Plaza Suite with s JP and Matthew Broderick in the
Speaker 1: lead roles there, and that together the first time they
Speaker 1: have shared the Broadway stage in a couple of decades,
Speaker 1: and I think their first lead performances opposite one another
Speaker 1: real life husband and wife and it was great and
Speaker 1: we had a great time. And uh, two things happened
Speaker 1: on that trip. Want to hung out with Joey cra
Speaker 1: Are good friend, and Joey was talking about his friend
Speaker 1: who was a understudy in Hamilton's I believe the touring
Speaker 1: production but maybe not. Who knew like six different parts
Speaker 1: that this gentleman could sub ind for and we talked
Speaker 1: a lot about that. Now I was kind of blown
Speaker 1: away and it got me thinking about understudies. But then
Speaker 1: right after we left New York, Matthew Broderick got COVID
Speaker 1: just a week or and a half or two weeks
Speaker 1: into his run because we saw the last preview and
Speaker 1: his un or study took over. In a play that
Speaker 1: is almost just two people, everyone's going to see this
Speaker 1: real life husband and wife on stage, so when the
Speaker 1: understudy comes on, it's not great. But I was just
Speaker 1: looking to see if I could find his name. And
Speaker 1: as of like three days ago, a s JP now
Speaker 1: has COVID, so they have just canceled through. Uh when
Speaker 1: they're better, which is like another week or so, which
Speaker 1: is something you know that the show must go on.
Speaker 1: Is the sort of line and Broadway, and that is
Speaker 1: the whole idea of the understudy is that if someone
Speaker 1: is sick or stubs their toe or falls off the stage,
Speaker 1: there is someone else there that knows the part that
Speaker 1: can immediately step in and play this part um ideally
Speaker 1: close to identically as the as the lead or you know,
Speaker 1: even if it's not the lead, any any part. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I saw, I put that understudies or the insurance policies
Speaker 1: make sure the show will go on right. But after
Speaker 1: reading this and Olivia, who did our Unsung Heroes of
Speaker 1: the Court, she got another Unsung Heroes of Broadway article here, uh,
Speaker 1: understudies and standbys and the swing, and we'll talk about
Speaker 1: what all these terms mean. They are truly heroes because
Speaker 1: it is astounding what they are tasked to be able
Speaker 1: to do right. Like true, they don't save people's lives
Speaker 1: or they don't you know, learn proprities or anything like that,
Speaker 1: but they are they are heroes in their own way.
Speaker 1: They're certainly the hardest working people in show business if
Speaker 1: you ask me. Yeah, And and it will become clear
Speaker 1: why because you might just think what you learn a
Speaker 1: part and if someone goes down, you do that part.
Speaker 1: Oh hang, onto your hats. It is much more than that,
Speaker 1: yeah hang on to you, Yeah, I got You're about
Speaker 1: to make a joke. So um. So we are talking understudies,
Speaker 1: and most people check think that when you're talking about
Speaker 1: an understudy, it is like you said, you just you
Speaker 1: know a part and if, if some if the star
Speaker 1: goes down, you fill in. And it's a pretty thrilling idea,
Speaker 1: like you know, somebody getting their shot at a big
Speaker 1: break after sitting in the sidelines. Um, and it can
Speaker 1: be it can be very um aptly compared to that
Speaker 1: backup quarterback who literally is sitting on the sidelines and
Speaker 1: they get their chance and they show like what a
Speaker 1: great job they're doing. On Broadway, there's the same thing,
Speaker 1: and that is the understudy. But there's a bunch of
Speaker 1: different kinds of understudies, and the one that most people
Speaker 1: think of is actually called a standby, which is where
Speaker 1: you are the person who knows every single word movement, dialogue, song, um,
Speaker 1: blocking que that the lead of that play knows, and
Speaker 1: so if that that lead goes down, then you stand in.
Speaker 1: But you can go potentially years without ever getting that call,
Speaker 1: like over over the run of a place, a multi
Speaker 1: years run it will play. You might be on stage
Speaker 1: a handful of times because you're that's your job. Is
Speaker 1: that specific. You You've got one role and you're filling
Speaker 1: in for one part only on the basis of some
Speaker 1: accident or unforeseeable circumstances happened to the lead, so you
Speaker 1: have to step in. That's what most people think of
Speaker 1: as an understudy, but in reality, that's actually the job
Speaker 1: of the standby, right, and the standby you know, if
Speaker 1: it's like in the case of Plaza Suite, where it
Speaker 1: is largely two people on stage at all times you
Speaker 1: need another, it's it's probably not going to be some
Speaker 1: unknown that's gonna be the standby for either s JP
Speaker 1: or m b uh. And in this case I did
Speaker 1: find his name. His name is Michael McGrath. And Michael
Speaker 1: McGrath is a very He's won a Tony Award. He's
Speaker 1: a very sort of renowned old school I think five
Speaker 1: or six years older than Broadwerick even uh Broadway guy.
Speaker 1: So in a situation like this, you have a heavy
Speaker 1: hitter on standby that is um just hoping that Matthew
Speaker 1: Broderick gets food poisoning or COVID, right, so he can
Speaker 1: step in there. Uh, And I looked up Sarah Jessica
Speaker 1: Parker has an understudy too, and it's kind of a
Speaker 1: shame that they canceled. But in the case of that,
Speaker 1: you know, you have to make a call as a production,
Speaker 1: and when it's your two lead stars and in a
Speaker 1: play of two, uh, it's probably the right call to
Speaker 1: go ahead and cancel that because what you don't want
Speaker 1: to deal with is a lot of, as you'll see,
Speaker 1: unhappy ticket buyers, which happens exactly. So that's a standby, right,
Speaker 1: And that's they're what the New York Times called the
Speaker 1: most elite type of understudy. Again, that's what I always
Speaker 1: thought was an understudy. But an understudy, it turns out,
Speaker 1: is somebody who is part of the cast who goes
Speaker 1: on usually night after night, well Kenny, but not always okay,
Speaker 1: But they are also ready to fill into one or
Speaker 1: more roles, usually a principal role. That's the understudy. Whereas
Speaker 1: standby is like you might not even be in the theater,
Speaker 1: but you're on call every time that show is on,
Speaker 1: and you are expected to be within five minute run
Speaker 1: or drive to the theater so you can get there
Speaker 1: because something has gone horribly wrong, and understudy is somebody
Speaker 1: that's that has a much more frequently attached position at
Speaker 1: the theater, and usually it's a role in the ensemble cast. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I think they're usually in the cast. I don't think
Speaker 1: it has to be a lot of this is determined,
Speaker 1: as we'll see, by the Actor's Union for Broadway, which
Speaker 1: actor's equity and the deals they work out with producers.
Speaker 1: But before you get to those specifics, you also have
Speaker 1: your swing. And this is what Joey's friend would be.
Speaker 1: A swing can cover a lot of different roles, and
Speaker 1: a swing might be like a performer in the chorus,
Speaker 1: but can jump up there and play Hamilton's or Jefferson
Speaker 1: or Burr at any and this this dude could do that. Uh.
Speaker 1: It is one of the more impressive things to accomplish,
Speaker 1: I think, because you know all these parts, you know
Speaker 1: all the songs, like you said, you know all the
Speaker 1: choreography and the blocking. You've got to know, as Olivia
Speaker 1: points out, something you don't even think about, which is
Speaker 1: um between between sets. I have to go back and
Speaker 1: I gotta know what costume I'm supposed to be in,
Speaker 1: and who to talk to, who has that costume? Like,
Speaker 1: you've got to know every single part to be able
Speaker 1: to seamlessly transition so that no one, I mean they
Speaker 1: know because they announced, like you know, in the role
Speaker 1: of for Matthew Broderick tonight, the understudy will be performing
Speaker 1: and the collective's grown. But uh, had had it not
Speaker 1: be for that announcement, in a regular understudy role, you
Speaker 1: shouldn't be able to tell the difference, No, because it's
Speaker 1: not it's not the star, it's not the lead necessarily right,
Speaker 1: Just yeah, you you would never know. But that is
Speaker 1: something with the swing. So like, um, they might know
Speaker 1: anywhere between five to a dozen of those roles, and
Speaker 1: like you were saying, each of those roles has different
Speaker 1: costume changes, different choreography, different um, different words to to
Speaker 1: say or sing like, and they know all of those
Speaker 1: inside and out. And when you start to understand what
Speaker 1: a swing does, then you start to get what I
Speaker 1: was saying earlier that they are probably the hardest working
Speaker 1: people in show business because and on any given night,
Speaker 1: they're ready to go at a moment's notice to to
Speaker 1: do those roles, um at the drop of a hat.
Speaker 1: And and it's because they've worked so hard up to
Speaker 1: that point. And keep working too. It's not like there's
Speaker 1: a time where you can stop and relax. As long
Speaker 1: as the show is running um over the course of weeks, months, years,
Speaker 1: however long it goes, you have to You have to
Speaker 1: basically keep your engine revving, ready to to put it
Speaker 1: in to drive all of a sudden, peel out on
Speaker 1: the stage, lay rubber from the wings. That's how they
Speaker 1: always put it in in the acting world. So that's
Speaker 1: the understudy standbys and the swings are also alternates UH.
Speaker 1: And this is someone who is scheduled to take the
Speaker 1: place of one of the actors in that you might
Speaker 1: be in UH Chicago for a three year run and
Speaker 1: you're like, I don't do the matinees anymore. We have
Speaker 1: an alternate that does my matinees. Everyone knows this going in.
Speaker 1: It's not like a sickness or anything happened, or an
Speaker 1: injury happened. Tickets half price, UH. So I mentioned the
Speaker 1: the Actor's Equity UH and the Broadway producers. They work
Speaker 1: through these contracts just like they would with UH SAG
Speaker 1: or the Writer's Guild with film and television, and it's
Speaker 1: all you know, you don't have a choice on Broadway
Speaker 1: of how many understudies and standbys and swing that you hire.
Speaker 1: It's all sort of contractual. You have to hire and
Speaker 1: understudy for every single role except for bit players and
Speaker 1: in some case stars. Uh. In the case of Plaza Suite,
Speaker 1: of course they had understudies. But if it's a one
Speaker 1: person show, you're not gonna throw an understudy up there
Speaker 1: because it's it's really about that one person's Like, there
Speaker 1: may be some leeway there according to like the production
Speaker 1: and how they run it, but you're not required to
Speaker 1: understudy the star. Yeah. They also, um probably, well, they
Speaker 1: don't necessarily need to hire understudies if it's a limited
Speaker 1: run show, like for a few weeks or more. Um.
Speaker 1: Anything beyond that though, they probably will need to hire understudies,
Speaker 1: right or if it's off Broadway or in you know,
Speaker 1: a third area, uh stage theater, it's all bets are off.
Speaker 1: You can do whatever you want. Yeah, you're smart hire understudies,
Speaker 1: so yeah, for sure. Um. One of the other things too,
Speaker 1: is that you start to get into logistics because if
Speaker 1: you're working with understudies and they have a regular role
Speaker 1: in the ensemble, if the lead that the understudy is
Speaker 1: working under falls ill or sprains their ankle or whatever happens.
Speaker 1: Believe me, a lot of stuff happens on Broadway. Um,
Speaker 1: that understudy is no longer filling that role in the ensemble,
Speaker 1: which means now you've got to go to your swings
Speaker 1: and does that swing have anything else that they were
Speaker 1: doing that you need to bring another swing. And suddenly,
Speaker 1: like like like ups route in the middle of a blizzard,
Speaker 1: It's like my nightmare. Logistics is like, I those are
Speaker 1: the true heroes. To me, you say understudies are true heroes.
Speaker 1: I think logisticians who deliver things are like reroute planes.
Speaker 1: I think they're the true hero is because I could
Speaker 1: not do it. Yeah, and in the case of like
Speaker 1: a Hamilton's or a bigger show with a bunch of
Speaker 1: people that are singing and dancing, if you have a
Speaker 1: a flu that sweeps through you know, let's talk pre
Speaker 1: COVID and we'll get to what COVID did to Broadway.
Speaker 1: But you know, a flu that sweeps through the cast
Speaker 1: and like three people go down in a week. It's
Speaker 1: a jinga game as a production because like you said,
Speaker 1: you're pulling people from one role to another. Then he'll
Speaker 1: fools that who feels that role then who feels that role?
Speaker 1: And all of a sudden you're looking at the stage
Speaker 1: hand and you're going, can you dance? All right? Have
Speaker 1: you been attention? Rip off of their norm core outfit,
Speaker 1: and all of a sudden they're wearing a tight fitting
Speaker 1: tuxedo and soft shoes underneath. It's so good, What a
Speaker 1: what a story. So let's go back to talking about logisticians. Okay,
Speaker 1: but there's an equation, Chuck, that these producers and the
Speaker 1: director and everybody, Although I think it's probably up to
Speaker 1: the producers are making. When you start to go down
Speaker 1: the list and you're moving everybody around, Eventually you get
Speaker 1: to a point where the show or the cast doesn't
Speaker 1: really resemble the cast that the people coming to see
Speaker 1: the show are are coming to see. And after a
Speaker 1: certain point, it's probably like, um, people are so many
Speaker 1: people are gonna ask for a refund or some partial
Speaker 1: refund or something that you're better off just giving everybody
Speaker 1: some time off and just you know, canceling the show
Speaker 1: for a day or two. Yeah, you know those uh,
Speaker 1: I mean, Livia came up with some great examples over
Speaker 1: the years of like when multiple people go down in
Speaker 1: there was a cold on this out of Falsettos and
Speaker 1: the lead role Stephanie J Block's roll of Trino went down,
Speaker 1: understudy went down, and then there was a swing. Stephanie
Speaker 1: umo u m o h um, covering different roles, had
Speaker 1: to take the stage in the lead with a two
Speaker 1: and a half hour lead time and apparently had to
Speaker 1: even use the script on stage, but got a bunch
Speaker 1: of um support in cheers from the audience, which, um,
Speaker 1: you know, like we said, audiences can be unkind. But
Speaker 1: my experience with Broadway is that theatergoers are understand this
Speaker 1: stuff and try to be supportive when something like this happens,
Speaker 1: even though they're expectations in their hopes maybe a bit dashed.
Speaker 1: Like Livia talks about people booing and stuff like that.
Speaker 1: I wouldn't like to think that happened. I'm sure it has,
Speaker 1: but they're all from jersey Bridge and Tunnel Baby. Uh. Generally,
Speaker 1: I think there are more stories of people trying to
Speaker 1: port the people on stage then go ah, what is this?
Speaker 1: I want my money back? Yeah, like clapping for the
Speaker 1: person who has to use the script because they're so unprepared.
Speaker 1: That's a very meta modernist response to that. Let's take
Speaker 1: a break. Okay, then we'll come back and talk about
Speaker 1: what kind of money these people make right after this
Speaker 1: and things chop and chock stop. Okay, we're back, everybody,
Speaker 1: and we are back to talk about moolaw Somolians, cash, clamp, lettuce, cabbage, Uh,
Speaker 1: what else? What are the kids saying these days? Bread? Yeah,
Speaker 1: they're bringing dead back, aren't they do? I think it's dough.
Speaker 1: I can't remember money. We'll say cheese, all right. Uh.
Speaker 1: If you are a understudy again with the with the unions,
Speaker 1: all of this stuff is um is prescribed how much
Speaker 1: you're gonna get paid um, even if you don't take
Speaker 1: the stage. It's not like there's like, well you're the understudy,
Speaker 1: you didn't ever make it to the main stage, so
Speaker 1: you get a pay cut. That is not the case.
Speaker 1: You get a minimum as a Broadway performer. Uh. And
Speaker 1: this was as maybe a little bit different now. I'm
Speaker 1: not sure if they renegotiate it since then, but two
Speaker 1: thousand thirty four dollars a week on an actor's equity
Speaker 1: contract on Broadway. Yeah, and so some people who are
Speaker 1: in the cast every night, in the ensemble, who have
Speaker 1: who go on stage every night, may actually make less
Speaker 1: than a swing who doesn't go on at all. And
Speaker 1: if you stop and think about it, that actually makes
Speaker 1: a lot more sense because that one person who's going
Speaker 1: on every night in the ensemble knows what's going to
Speaker 1: happen that night. They get a chance to like create
Speaker 1: their character and like rehearse and understand it. And as
Speaker 1: we'll see, like understudies, swings they don't get those kind
Speaker 1: of opportunities, and yet they're expected to know not just
Speaker 1: one role, but eight roles and be ready to go on.
Speaker 1: So it makes a lot more sense. And frankly, I
Speaker 1: think they deserve even more money than they get because
Speaker 1: of the requirements of their job. But why would a
Speaker 1: swing make more We didn't even say because they have
Speaker 1: to understand and practice and rehearse for more parts. Well,
Speaker 1: they get paid more. We never even said that, right,
Speaker 1: Swings are in additional pay bumps. Oh, I'm sorry, I
Speaker 1: thought that. I thought that we had kind of established
Speaker 1: that in some way shape or form. No, no, no, no, no.
Speaker 1: Your minimum is two thousand, thirty four dollars a week,
Speaker 1: and if you were a swing or an understudy, you
Speaker 1: make pay bumps. On top of that, swings get a
Speaker 1: hundred and one dollars and seventy cents, or fifteen dollars
Speaker 1: if you're a partial swing and an understudy of a
Speaker 1: principal role gets an additional fifty four dollars and fifty
Speaker 1: cents or understudying ensemble and extra fifteen dollars. Right, So
Speaker 1: take take take what I was saying before, and now
Speaker 1: move it to to like right here, because it will
Speaker 1: make more sense now that I've said that. But you
Speaker 1: can understand I think that it's I think you should
Speaker 1: get a bump for every role that you have, not
Speaker 1: just a bump for having multiple roles. You know, well, yeah,
Speaker 1: it'd be great, like if you are a swing for
Speaker 1: like six rolls, Yeah, you'd be like a hundred bucks
Speaker 1: a people don't don't put me on stage, give me
Speaker 1: another role instead. There. I'm sure we have Broadway understudies
Speaker 1: listening there. They're probably like, hey, let's get Josh in
Speaker 1: there from this next union negotiation. Yeah, give me a
Speaker 1: cigar and like an ill fitting vest and I'll roll
Speaker 1: up my shirt sleeves and get down to business. Because
Speaker 1: you're probably the only person that's ever asked for that.
Speaker 1: Like I'm a genius. I just came just give them
Speaker 1: more money. Uh, if you're preparing for this, I mean there.
Speaker 1: You know, depending on who you are as an actor,
Speaker 1: you're gonna have different ways of preparing period. Uh. And
Speaker 1: Livia found some good examples of what some people have done. Uh.
Speaker 1: There was an actor named j. Douglas in two thousand seven,
Speaker 1: a member of Drowsy Chaperone, because that's a laugh out
Speaker 1: loud Broadway title, it is. Uh. He covered two ensemble
Speaker 1: actors and stand by, uh in a standby for four principles.
Speaker 1: So that's a lot of work. And Douglas would sit
Speaker 1: in the audience at least you know initially, and sit
Speaker 1: there with a with a recorder and quietly record all
Speaker 1: the movements and then go home and transcribe this stuff
Speaker 1: and then just study, study, study, basically. Yeah, that's one
Speaker 1: high stress job court stenographer colliding with another high stress
Speaker 1: job of understudy or swing, you know the job. So
Speaker 1: Jay Douglas um would would take all those notes and
Speaker 1: and create basically like a dossier on each of the
Speaker 1: characters he was expected to fill in for. And so
Speaker 1: if you got enough notice, he could like consult the
Speaker 1: dossier and you know, refresh his memory of it, like
Speaker 1: if you're an ensemble actor or even a lead like
Speaker 1: you probably have one script and that's all you need.
Speaker 1: This this like like Jay Douglas and others would have
Speaker 1: like multiple scripts and multiple like workups or write ups
Speaker 1: on their on their different characters that in and of
Speaker 1: itself differentiates them to an astounding degree totally. UM. And
Speaker 1: then you know, besides just learning the stuff all the
Speaker 1: things that we talked about, UM, sometimes it's different accents
Speaker 1: you know that you have to do and kind of
Speaker 1: bounce between. You also have to be in in broadway shape.
Speaker 1: And uh, Livia found the example of uh, he's either
Speaker 1: loquette or Looquette Charnell Pringle who was a swing on
Speaker 1: Mrs doubt Fire, who, aside from learning all these parts
Speaker 1: over and over again, uh, in her mind was like
Speaker 1: you know, doing PT and like physical training and doing
Speaker 1: voice work because you have to keep in physical shape
Speaker 1: and you have to keep your voice ready for that
Speaker 1: kind of stamina that it takes because you may may
Speaker 1: not just be a single performance. You may have to
Speaker 1: step in for a week or more, or you may
Speaker 1: eventually become that part. Yeah, that's the thing we'll talk about.
Speaker 1: But there is a possibility that you could end up
Speaker 1: like permanently in that role if if things work out
Speaker 1: in your favor. You gotta have your your toolbox ready right.
Speaker 1: One of the things I said is, I don't want
Speaker 1: to make it seem like it's easy to be an
Speaker 1: ensemble member of a Broadway show. It's that this is
Speaker 1: the point. It's really really hard, stressful, anxiety inducing work
Speaker 1: to do that, And it's work like it's definitely craft
Speaker 1: and the people who do this love what they're doing,
Speaker 1: but it's also like really hard work. Um. What I'm
Speaker 1: saying is that if you are an ensemble or a
Speaker 1: principle and you go out there every night, you have
Speaker 1: all sorts of benefits of developing your character just through
Speaker 1: sheer repetition over time, learning the learning everything. So it's
Speaker 1: it's like wrote, Um, the people who work as under
Speaker 1: studies and swings, they don't get that. They very frequently
Speaker 1: will have not actually done any sort of real rehearsal
Speaker 1: before they might be pushed out on stage and asked
Speaker 1: to go ahead and deliver a performance that's on caliber
Speaker 1: with whoever it is they're replacing, even though they've never
Speaker 1: actually rehearsed that kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, if
Speaker 1: you are a principle standby, then chances are they call
Speaker 1: it a put in. Chances are you have rehearsed with
Speaker 1: the main cast, You've gotten in that costume, you've worked
Speaker 1: with the orchestra and the show lighting, because you know
Speaker 1: that's all that all counts. Like if you're if you
Speaker 1: haven't rehearsed this stuff, if you've just done it under
Speaker 1: just the regular stage lights being on and they're like
Speaker 1: the musicians aren't there, Like every thing changes when it's
Speaker 1: go time and that curtain drops on the night, and
Speaker 1: if you're not used to that, it's a whole different situation.
Speaker 1: But if you are a principal, you've probably done put
Speaker 1: ins and at least gotten the benefit of maybe a
Speaker 1: rehearsal or two. Um I would like to think in
Speaker 1: the case of something like Plaza Suite that s JP
Speaker 1: did a full run throughs with the Matthew Broadwick's standby
Speaker 1: and vice versa, because it's just such a high pressure
Speaker 1: situation with just the two parts. But if you're in
Speaker 1: a big show, there are no guarantees that you're gonna
Speaker 1: have gone through any rehearsal at all necessarily, or if
Speaker 1: you are, it's rehearsing with other understudies and swings and
Speaker 1: maybe the assistant director with no music and no stage
Speaker 1: lighting and no costumes like on a like during the
Speaker 1: day on a on a weekday, right and even during
Speaker 1: those rehearsals, um swings might have to fill in from
Speaker 1: multiple parts during the rehearsal. So I mean, just like
Speaker 1: just the lighting alone, you've to know the lighting cues.
Speaker 1: You've got to know where to stand. If the lights
Speaker 1: supposed to be on you, you want to step in
Speaker 1: just the right place because that's where the lighting person
Speaker 1: is going to shine that light. If you're rehearsing with worklights,
Speaker 1: that's a huge disadvantage if you've never done like the
Speaker 1: lighting blocking. And that's that's that's basically like part and
Speaker 1: parcel with how understudies and standbys and swings are expected
Speaker 1: to work at a genuine disadvantage, but they're expected to give,
Speaker 1: you know, like on caliber performances with the people who
Speaker 1: have had all those advantages. Another reason why I say
Speaker 1: the hardest working people in show business. I'm picturing a
Speaker 1: scenario one day, by the way, you might be able
Speaker 1: to hear hammering next door. There's construction next door. I
Speaker 1: can't hear it, Okay, I just wanted to let everyone
Speaker 1: know in case you hear a hammer banging. Uh, it
Speaker 1: was bound to happen because there's construction next door. But
Speaker 1: I'm picturing a scenario one day where we're all out
Speaker 1: in New York with you, Me and Emily. We're all
Speaker 1: having dinner with a big group of people and someone's like, oh,
Speaker 1: my friends coming is an a Broadway show. We're all excited,
Speaker 1: and Emily's was a theater girl, so she's musical theater.
Speaker 1: So she's like peppering them with questions. And you go.
Speaker 1: You take like a sip on your martini and say, so,
Speaker 1: how many parts did you play? And the table gets
Speaker 1: quiet and they're like, oh, just the one. It was
Speaker 1: one of the main ensemble parts. And you go, oh,
Speaker 1: just the one. Interesting, man, you just nailed your impression
Speaker 1: of me, and every and just everyone gets really quiet.
Speaker 1: We're like, what's the deal with Josh because they get
Speaker 1: up and go to the bathroom and I say, he's
Speaker 1: all about the understudy and they go oh, And I'm
Speaker 1: in the bathroom going like what do I say wrong? Why?
Speaker 1: Why did you hope that happens with dinner to Josh,
Speaker 1: so Chuck, let's move on. UM. Rehearsals not good as
Speaker 1: far as the understudies go. One of the other things
Speaker 1: that I think we have to mention that you pointed
Speaker 1: out earlier is that UM, especially with principles and stars
Speaker 1: of the show, those UM, those standbys and understudy are
Speaker 1: expected to deliver exactly the same performance that the star
Speaker 1: does every night. Like you, they they're not like, go
Speaker 1: in there and do it your way, kid, They're they're like,
Speaker 1: go in there and do it exactly the way this
Speaker 1: actual star does it. Kid, don't screw up. And there's
Speaker 1: real reason behind that. Like it's not just like you know,
Speaker 1: you're being treated like cattle. It's, um, the star has
Speaker 1: done this in a certain way so that other people
Speaker 1: have come to expect this ad lib lind that was
Speaker 1: ad libbed once three years ago and now is like
Speaker 1: a regular part of the show, even though it's not.
Speaker 1: They expect you to say that same line, so that
Speaker 1: you have to know that role, that character so well
Speaker 1: that you know how you know the character that the
Speaker 1: actual star has created from the script. That's what they
Speaker 1: want you to do, because if not, somebody's line is
Speaker 1: going to get thrown off, and you can throw off
Speaker 1: the entire production like that. Yeah, like the understudy knows this,
Speaker 1: so it's not like, uh, the understudy thinks, so this
Speaker 1: can be my chance to really show them what I
Speaker 1: bring to the role, and then their hopes get dashed.
Speaker 1: I'm sure you're not necessarily doing a an impersonation of
Speaker 1: Matthew Broderick as you understudy. Uh So, like things like intonation,
Speaker 1: you might be able to change it up a little bit,
Speaker 1: but generally they want you to do what he does. Um.
Speaker 1: And we'll talk a little bit more about what COVID
Speaker 1: has done, But one apparent thing that COVID has done
Speaker 1: is given a little more appreciation to the understudy and
Speaker 1: a little bit more of a well, hey, in certain situations,
Speaker 1: maybe it's okay for you to bring something else to
Speaker 1: the role if we talk about it beforehand and stuff
Speaker 1: like that, like don't surprise everybody. Uh, I mean if
Speaker 1: you literally have to go on stage, like if someone
Speaker 1: someone falls over with an appendicitis like ten minutes before curtain.
Speaker 1: That doesn't happen a lot. Usually there's a little bit
Speaker 1: of lead time. But uh, in the case of Olivia,
Speaker 1: found this scray article for mental floss with a bunch
Speaker 1: of cool examples. There was a matinee of Wicked and
Speaker 1: midway through the show, Adele de ziem Oh, sorry, Adena Menzel.
Speaker 1: Do you even get that? Reference? Is that Adell's last name?
Speaker 1: That was during the Academy Awards, Uh, John Travolta, he
Speaker 1: famously introduced Adina Menzel as Adele Desim. Really, I knew
Speaker 1: that he had screwed it up, but I didn't realize
Speaker 1: he screwed it up that bad. Yeah, he completely made
Speaker 1: up a first name in the surname. He's like, why
Speaker 1: is your name so weird? It's great, it's one of
Speaker 1: the all time blenders. But Adina Menzel fell mid show
Speaker 1: and fractured a rib and Showshana Bean had to go
Speaker 1: on halfway through the show, and so there's all this
Speaker 1: like chaos going on to try and get her in
Speaker 1: there and dress so the show doesn't miss a beat.
Speaker 1: And then poor Shoshana Bean is also in the back
Speaker 1: of her mind like I wasn't really told what was
Speaker 1: going on. Just Adele Desim has gone to the hospital,
Speaker 1: and so this is also in the back of the
Speaker 1: mind as of like, oh my goodness, what's happened to
Speaker 1: this person that I've been understudying, who I probably have
Speaker 1: a lot of respect for and maybe have grown close to,
Speaker 1: but also like how her it is she? And is
Speaker 1: this gonna? Is this my big break? Like all the
Speaker 1: emotion that comes with something like that is something that
Speaker 1: you have to just be able to check when you
Speaker 1: tread those boards, right. I want to verify for myself,
Speaker 1: and I think every listener who caught it you said
Speaker 1: a del design the second time. It's not okay, okay,
Speaker 1: good job, Okay. I want to make sure because you
Speaker 1: slid it in there so well, thank you thought you'd
Speaker 1: pulled the josh and just completely flubbed it. Well, I
Speaker 1: was gonna just leave it in there as a hidden
Speaker 1: joke to begin with. Well, we'll edit this. When I
Speaker 1: could tell that you didn't get it the first time,
Speaker 1: I had to explain so um Karen quack and bush
Speaker 1: Um is another example of that I've read about in
Speaker 1: a New York Times article from I think like two
Speaker 1: thousand one. She was a standby for Bernadette Peters in
Speaker 1: and get your gun, and the same thing happened, like
Speaker 1: Bernadette Peters got really ill with the stomach virus and
Speaker 1: apparently like I was able to keep it together long
Speaker 1: enough to make it to UM the intermission, and they
Speaker 1: called Karen Quackenbush. She was having I guess a birthday
Speaker 1: dinner with her husband down the street and she ran
Speaker 1: got into a cab and got to the to the
Speaker 1: show just in time to hear everybody booing or when
Speaker 1: they were announced, and they announced that she would be
Speaker 1: taking over for UM for Bernadette Peters. But um, that
Speaker 1: is extremely rare. But it's got to be so dramatic
Speaker 1: and stressful that those stories are eternally delightful. I could
Speaker 1: just listen to them all day. Well, I mean, even
Speaker 1: though it's basically the same story every time. Yeah, how
Speaker 1: many situations are there where you're a performer who gets
Speaker 1: their big break and you're walking into it knowing everybody's
Speaker 1: going to be disappointed when they see me walk out there? Right,
Speaker 1: and I have to withhold all of my creativity and
Speaker 1: make the star just exactly as I can. And on
Speaker 1: that note, Chuck, you want to take a break real quick, Yeah,
Speaker 1: let's do it. Okay, we'll be right back, everybody, and
Speaker 1: things like chop and cho, Okay, we're back. And as
Speaker 1: I was saying, those Uh, those stories where you know,
Speaker 1: somebody gets their big break um because the star you
Speaker 1: know got sick or whatever. A few far between. Um.
Speaker 1: But for the most part, all the stuff we've talked
Speaker 1: about where like the stress um having to you know,
Speaker 1: keep your creativity, your own personal creativity in check and
Speaker 1: do mimicry um, like being on call and never having
Speaker 1: any idea when you're going to go on. For some people,
Speaker 1: you're like, I would never want to do that. It
Speaker 1: sounds awful, But there are people who like make careers
Speaker 1: out of this, this type of of acting um. And
Speaker 1: it's one of those things where once you proved yourself
Speaker 1: once twice a couple of times, you can they will
Speaker 1: call you any time you want them to. You can
Speaker 1: be an understudy, you can be a standby, you can
Speaker 1: be an alternate for the rest of your life because
Speaker 1: it's so difficult to do that. If you prove yourself,
Speaker 1: you're in. Yeah. I think there's a lot of jobs
Speaker 1: in the world that some people view as stepping stones
Speaker 1: or transient jobs that other people are quite happy to
Speaker 1: do their whole life. I remember when I first went
Speaker 1: to l A and when I was eighteen and my
Speaker 1: brother worked on Dear John, and I was an X
Speaker 1: you Got Me off as an extra. I love that show.
Speaker 1: It was so good and I was in it. Which
Speaker 1: what which episode? Oh? I remember Kirk goes skiing John.
Speaker 1: I don't remember exactly what happened. I could probably dig
Speaker 1: it up, but I play a bus boy in a scene,
Speaker 1: and uh, eighteen year on me, I looked like I
Speaker 1: was twelve, but I was up there with the extras
Speaker 1: in between, and this is my first experience with any
Speaker 1: of this stuff. And um, I remember these extras that
Speaker 1: seemed so old to me. They were probably in their
Speaker 1: thirties now that I look back, but they were kind
Speaker 1: of career extras, and I remember talking to them about
Speaker 1: that and they were like, you know, uh sure, I
Speaker 1: still audition, but like the reality has hit me that
Speaker 1: I'll probably never make it. But hey, I'm in the Union,
Speaker 1: I've got great health care. I constantly work as a
Speaker 1: stand in or a or a u uh an extra
Speaker 1: or a featured extra and make good money and I
Speaker 1: know my schedule and like, I'd rather do this than
Speaker 1: wait tables or something where waiting tables that can be
Speaker 1: a permanent job. I worked with career waiters as well,
Speaker 1: but under studies. Like you said, it's not always just
Speaker 1: a transient thing you gotta have. Just because you're good
Speaker 1: on stage and you can sing and dance doesn't mean
Speaker 1: you can handle the kind of pressures, additional pressures that
Speaker 1: come with this. It takes a special kind of performer,
Speaker 1: and some people are good at it and they know
Speaker 1: it and they stick to it. I'm sure they always
Speaker 1: would want that lead part, but it's not like they're like, oh,
Speaker 1: if I could just get out of this understudy thing
Speaker 1: all the time. Now. Some people really get off on
Speaker 1: the additional pressure of not knowing and knowing like you
Speaker 1: could be called it any second. Some people like really
Speaker 1: like that, and then the additional work of having to
Speaker 1: understand and know all these different parts, Like some people
Speaker 1: really like that. But like you said, a lot of
Speaker 1: people viewed as a stepping stone, and astonishingly actually has
Speaker 1: been a stepping stone. Like sometimes the stars have aligned
Speaker 1: for people whose names we know today because they started
Speaker 1: out as an understudy or a standby. UM. And Bernardette
Speaker 1: Peters who I mentioned, UM, she she went down during
Speaker 1: one performance. She actually started out as an understudy, I think,
Speaker 1: all the way back in age thirteen, and then later
Speaker 1: on on Broadway with her first real Broadway job. Um,
Speaker 1: she was a standby, so she started out. I don't
Speaker 1: know that she had any like um like moment where
Speaker 1: you know she she hit it big. I think she
Speaker 1: just was one of those you know, workhorses who was
Speaker 1: like doing whatever job you can and then just kept
Speaker 1: going from there and became a star as a result. Yeah. Like,
Speaker 1: as the story goes, she understudied and performed, uh the
Speaker 1: lead part or I don't know about the lead because
Speaker 1: I don't know, Uh, I think the child lead. I
Speaker 1: don't know Gypsy as well, but played Dainty June. Um
Speaker 1: filled in and did this and apparently this the story goes,
Speaker 1: Burnett Peter's mom put that on the resume that like
Speaker 1: she she played Dainty June. I'm curious, you know this
Speaker 1: was in the night early nineteen sixties, about the sort
Speaker 1: of ethics of doing that now of your resume, Like
Speaker 1: if you put you know, aid opposite Sarah Jessica Barker
Speaker 1: in Plaza swee, They're like, well you did that for
Speaker 1: three days, Like I don't know if if you're allowed
Speaker 1: to put that on your resume, right, um, I mean,
Speaker 1: or you could point it out like understudy and filled
Speaker 1: in for so many days. But from the impression I
Speaker 1: get Burnard Peter's mom kind of said like she played
Speaker 1: this on Broadway, right, But at least Bernardette Peters had
Speaker 1: did plausible deniability where she's like, yeah, I'm um, I
Speaker 1: didn't know this. But Anthony Hopkins apparently got a huge
Speaker 1: break because he was an understudy this Sir Lawrence Olivier
Speaker 1: in the West End. Yeah. Um, there was a play
Speaker 1: called The Dance of Death, um, which sounds like a
Speaker 1: really odd, unnerving play. Um. It's said in like a
Speaker 1: remote Swedish island. I think in the nineteenth century it's
Speaker 1: just weird. Um. But in nineteen sixty seven, um Olivier
Speaker 1: came down with appendicitis and Anthony Hopkins filled in for him,
Speaker 1: and Olivier basically said he crowned him as like his
Speaker 1: successor by writing about what a good job he said.
Speaker 1: He walked away with the part of Edgar that was
Speaker 1: Olivier's role, like a cat with a mouse between its teeth.
Speaker 1: So that was a huge break for Anthony Hopkins to
Speaker 1: start out with him. You know, long story, short hand
Speaker 1: ballecter uh Tay Diggs, who famously was in rent and
Speaker 1: obviously in TV and films. He was an understudy UH
Speaker 1: in nineteen revival of Carousel and then Shirley McLain UH
Speaker 1: film legend. Shirley McClain was an understudy on Broadway the
Speaker 1: nineteen fifties as a teenager and uh ten days into
Speaker 1: the main performance, I believe it was Carol Haney fell
Speaker 1: ill or just fell, Yeah, I think fell. It was
Speaker 1: an injury in this case finished the show, but Shirley
Speaker 1: McClain had to fill in with about a half hour's notice.
Speaker 1: Screwed up a little bit, cursed audibly on stage because
Speaker 1: she goofed up and like dropped her hat in one scene.
Speaker 1: But everyone was impressed, and Alfred Hitchcock came to see
Speaker 1: that play a few months later and cast her in
Speaker 1: The Trouble with Harry, and she went on too great
Speaker 1: great fame. Yeah, and she became whose mom was she? Uh?
Speaker 1: Whose mom? Who's whose? Whose kids? I don't know? I
Speaker 1: don't either. I always want to say Carrie Fisher. But
Speaker 1: this Debbie Reynolds kid, right, is that what you're thinking? Maybe?
Speaker 1: Maybe who knows? Um, there's another one to chuck that's
Speaker 1: worth mentioning because she kind of ushers us into the
Speaker 1: Broadway in the Covid age. Her name is Sutton Foster.
Speaker 1: She was an understudy. She tried out for the lead
Speaker 1: and thoroughly modern Millie and she didn't get it. So
Speaker 1: she said, okay, well will you make me the understudy
Speaker 1: to that role? And it turned out the actor who
Speaker 1: had that role UM left and so they turned to
Speaker 1: Sutton Foster and said, hey, you wanna you wanna star
Speaker 1: and she turned it into a I think a Tony
Speaker 1: Award in two thousand two. Well, fast forward to December
Speaker 1: and she's working as the the lead in UM, the
Speaker 1: Music Man, I believe, and she catches Covid and her
Speaker 1: understudy takes over for her, Cathy Void co Void co
Speaker 1: yeah v O y t k O. She took over
Speaker 1: four and she did such a great job that one
Speaker 1: of the greatest people on the planet, from what I
Speaker 1: can tell, Hugh Jackman gave a UM now famous speech,
Speaker 1: UM singing the praises of understudies and Cathy Void singular
Speaker 1: almost almost he had to stop himself, you could tell,
Speaker 1: but he was talking about. He said something like, when
Speaker 1: when she arrived for work today, she could have played
Speaker 1: any of eight different roles and then went on to
Speaker 1: basically talk about how understudies are like the thing that
Speaker 1: keeps Broadway going. And it was because Sutton Foster came
Speaker 1: down with COVID that the void Coode got to kind
Speaker 1: of step into that spotlight courtesy of Hugh Jackman and UM.
Speaker 1: One of the reasons it became such big news was
Speaker 1: not just because Hugh Jackman gave the speech, although in
Speaker 1: large part it was, but also because COVID was just
Speaker 1: decimating Broadway at the time, and there were shows that
Speaker 1: were like, you know, having to cancel performances. There were
Speaker 1: all sorts of understudies and standbys and alternates being thrown
Speaker 1: every which way. UM, And it was a really hard time,
Speaker 1: and I think still in some ways is a hard
Speaker 1: time for Broadway right now. Like you said, ump Plaza
Speaker 1: Suite is now is currently dark, right, Yeah, because of COVID. Yeah,
Speaker 1: I mean, I think what it did was it really
Speaker 1: highlighted the necessity and the value of swing and understudies
Speaker 1: and standbys. I think they were probably, at least it seems,
Speaker 1: just from reading up on it for many years, a
Speaker 1: little taken for granted of course, that they would always
Speaker 1: be there. Maybe under hired because Broadway, like a lot
Speaker 1: in the film and television industry, you are expected to
Speaker 1: perform sick or injured unless you absolutely cannot. It's not
Speaker 1: like regular jobs. You're like, I don't feel too good,
Speaker 1: I can't go in. It's like you go in anyway. Uh.
Speaker 1: There was a um. The president of Actors Equity, Kate Schindel,
Speaker 1: tweeted out and this was about, you know, the COVID
Speaker 1: surge and the slide on understudies. Tweeted this, Uh, my
Speaker 1: educated guess is that when employers consistently reject our efforts
Speaker 1: to negotiate for more swings under studies and substage managers,
Speaker 1: we haven't even talked about that. Like if you're on
Speaker 1: the crew, when you get six, someone has to fill in.
Speaker 1: Because the industry model has grown dependent on people working
Speaker 1: sick or injured. It's shortsighted and unsafe. Uh. And this,
Speaker 1: you know, kind of forced Charlotte st. Martin, who was
Speaker 1: president of the Trade Association of the Broadway League, to
Speaker 1: sort of apologize, not sort of to like fully apologize
Speaker 1: and and kind of call for producers to cover their
Speaker 1: shows adequately, and like said before, it led to more
Speaker 1: things like hey, maybe an understudy can actually bring a
Speaker 1: little something to the role. Maybe we shouldn't take such
Speaker 1: uh take them for granted as much. Yeah, Charlotte Saint
Speaker 1: Martin had apparently thrown some shade on the understudies, and
Speaker 1: um got called out by Kate Sheindel. So I guess
Speaker 1: from from what the New York Times is saying, they
Speaker 1: are able to or they're using this to to try
Speaker 1: to make it easier on understudies and same boys, to
Speaker 1: to give them like full rehearsals and actually have the
Speaker 1: lighting people there during it and like like make it
Speaker 1: so that it's just a slightly less stressful job and
Speaker 1: that there's more of them working. Um, which is yeah,
Speaker 1: that is good, Like that's a that's an improvement. It's
Speaker 1: the same thing like you were saying with the film
Speaker 1: industry when the transition it's going through now, where it's like, no,
Speaker 1: you really shouldn't work at twenty eight hour day every
Speaker 1: day and just be expected to, uh whenever the director
Speaker 1: producer wants you to be there. You know, it's um.
Speaker 1: Any anytime there's an improvement like that, it's an improvement
Speaker 1: for all him into that. Uh. The one thing I
Speaker 1: don't think we mentioned that I think is uh important
Speaker 1: is that sometimes you may audition as the understudy, and
Speaker 1: sometimes you may audition for the lead role. If it's
Speaker 1: not like already set in stone, like Matthew Broderick is
Speaker 1: gonna play this role and that's why we're doing it.
Speaker 1: If it's just open auditions for the lead role, they
Speaker 1: might say, oh, you're really good and I'm not gonna
Speaker 1: cast you, but I'd love to cast you as the understudy.
Speaker 1: Sometimes it goes that way. Yeah, So like if you
Speaker 1: want to be on stage, you have to basically be like,
Speaker 1: I'm not I'm not doing this anymore, Like I'm not
Speaker 1: taking understudy parts because you can get typecast into him
Speaker 1: because it's hard to do and not everybody wants to do.
Speaker 1: Or your roll with ice that you know, things happen
Speaker 1: that thoroughly modern Millie's gonna crack her ankle. Yeah, that
Speaker 1: was that other funny story we didn't kind of get
Speaker 1: to about. Uh. Someone wrote in It Feels Like anonymously
Speaker 1: to play Bill that was an understudy that said, you know,
Speaker 1: I secretly wanted to poison the lead actor because like
Speaker 1: you don't think about like beside is all the work
Speaker 1: that goes into it. They're like, we we could never
Speaker 1: make firm plans with anybody. We can never schedule anything
Speaker 1: because you're you know, you're just on call, that on
Speaker 1: call life of stuff, whether you're a pediatrician or a
Speaker 1: or an understudy or a logistician or very nice bring
Speaker 1: it all back around. You got anything else? Uh? Nothing else, sir? Well, everybody,
Speaker 1: I say, go out and hug and understudy a standby,
Speaker 1: a swing or an alternate today. Ask him first. Yes,
Speaker 1: they may not want to be hugged, especially if they're
Speaker 1: not wearing a name tag with the hug dot system on.
Speaker 1: That's right. Um, well, since Chuck said that's right, of course, everybody,
Speaker 1: that means it's time for a listener. Mayo, I'm gonna
Speaker 1: call this uh Sliding Canada. As always, Hey, guys, love
Speaker 1: the show. Promised to keep it short. Just listen to
Speaker 1: the pubs episode, which we heard a lot of people
Speaker 1: really like. That episode, by the way, which brought back
Speaker 1: tons of good memories of two summers I spent taking
Speaker 1: Canadian undergrads to ales. There were many pubs, but I
Speaker 1: can't not note that Josh said George Washington took his
Speaker 1: troops to a pub to quote toast the British leaving
Speaker 1: the continent of North America. End quote, knock knock, Canada
Speaker 1: called unless George Washington was still kicking it in nineteen
Speaker 1: thirty one when the Statue of Westminster was signed, or
Speaker 1: in two and Canada's Constitution was repatriated. But even then
Speaker 1: the Crown's representative is still the head of state up here.
Speaker 1: I realized this is the most pedantic sam of emails.
Speaker 1: I never heard that. But one of us has to
Speaker 1: make use of a PhD in Canadian literature somehow. Love
Speaker 1: the show heard every episode all the best Brenna, very nice, Brenda.
Speaker 1: That was we just got taken to school and putting
Speaker 1: one of those desks that you lift the top onto
Speaker 1: the man. That's how that's how hard we just got school. Chuck.
Speaker 1: I'm sorry to drag you along with me, but I'm
Speaker 1: we're there from moral support. I'll be there. I'll just
Speaker 1: make clear the inkwell outside and I'll get in with you.
Speaker 1: Who is that, Brenna? That was Brenna. It was a
Speaker 1: correction that was smarmie but also charming and funny, which
Speaker 1: made it lovable. That's right. So if you want to
Speaker 1: send us an email, like Brenna did. Let's see what
Speaker 1: you got. Take your best shot, don't smoke pot or do?
Speaker 1: You can send it off to stuff podcast at i
Speaker 1: heeart radio dot com. Stuff you Should Know is a
Speaker 1: production of I Heart Radio. For more podcasts my heart Radio,
Speaker 1: visit the iHeart Radio app, Apple Podcasts, or wherever you
Speaker 1: listen to your favorite shows.