WEBVTT - CRUSH Your Money Goals w/ Bernadette Joy #932 0:00:00.120 --> 0:00:03.000 Welcome to How to Money. I'm Joel, I'm Matt, and 0:00:03.000 --> 0:00:19.440 today we're talking about Crushing your Money Goals with Bernadette Joy. 0:00:25.720 --> 0:00:28.960 Yeah, Joel, So we're joined today by expert money coach 0:00:29.240 --> 0:00:31.880 Bernadette Joy, who we actually met for the first time 0:00:31.920 --> 0:00:35.839 last year at this nerdy personal finance and media conference 0:00:35.880 --> 0:00:38.040 that we often go to. We actually gave a talk 0:00:38.720 --> 0:00:42.680 while Bernadette was the host for the entire conference, and 0:00:42.880 --> 0:00:45.200 I've got to admit, I don't know if I've ever 0:00:45.240 --> 0:00:49.600 met someone who was more enthusiastic about personal finance. So 0:00:49.680 --> 0:00:52.680 we're pumped to be talking with Bernadette today her new book, 0:00:52.960 --> 0:00:56.440 Crush Your Money Goals that came out last month, and 0:00:56.520 --> 0:00:59.120 we're excited to dig into a ton of topics today, 0:00:59.240 --> 0:01:03.600 like her one dot why she hates the term emergency fund. 0:01:04.040 --> 0:01:06.280 Of course, we're going to cover her crush strategy for 0:01:06.360 --> 0:01:08.480 goal setting as well, and hopefully we'll have time to 0:01:08.920 --> 0:01:11.360 maybe we'll dig into her history as well, because she 0:01:11.480 --> 0:01:15.000 has an incredible debt payoff story as well. But Bernadette, 0:01:15.120 --> 0:01:17.040 thank you for taking the time to speak. 0:01:16.800 --> 0:01:17.360 With us today. 0:01:17.640 --> 0:01:19.360 Oh, thank you so much. You for having me, and 0:01:19.400 --> 0:01:21.200 that was the best intro I've had in a long time. 0:01:21.319 --> 0:01:23.920 Okay, I mean, who's introducing you? Then? Come on, you's 0:01:23.959 --> 0:01:24.760 got to get better. 0:01:24.560 --> 0:01:25.520 In Oh great question. 0:01:25.760 --> 0:01:28.039 Right, So the enthusiasm for personal finance is that more 0:01:28.040 --> 0:01:30.440 of like a you're stepping into the role of being 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.360 host at a conference or is this like a deep 0:01:33.440 --> 0:01:37.400 seated desire of yours to spread the personal finance gospel. 0:01:37.840 --> 0:01:40.440 I think it was both. I definitely have a deep 0:01:40.480 --> 0:01:43.400 seated passion of the biggest word that people often use 0:01:43.520 --> 0:01:46.039 for me is energy, But I think it was probably 0:01:46.080 --> 0:01:48.520 times ten because at the time that you and I met, 0:01:48.560 --> 0:01:50.480 we were at the end of the conference. I was like, woaho, 0:01:50.640 --> 0:01:51.960 we're going to go to a happy hour after. 0:01:52.160 --> 0:01:55.520 Yeah, that doesn't motivate anyone, right, Well, the first question 0:01:55.520 --> 0:01:57.480 we got to ask you, Bernadette, is what do you 0:01:57.480 --> 0:01:59.000 like to splore? John Matt and I we call it 0:01:59.000 --> 0:02:02.360 our craft beer equivalent because we spend decent trucks of 0:02:02.440 --> 0:02:05.000 change on good craft beer. Boy, Hey, it's okay because 0:02:05.000 --> 0:02:07.279 we're still being smart, saving and investing for our future. 0:02:07.480 --> 0:02:08.359 What's that thing for you? 0:02:08.880 --> 0:02:12.120 So my craft beer equivalent is k pop and it 0:02:12.160 --> 0:02:15.600 comes in a lot of different forms. It's going to concerts, 0:02:15.639 --> 0:02:19.320 it's buying merch, it's supporting the artists. It's something I 0:02:19.360 --> 0:02:22.160 spend a lot of money on that a lot of 0:02:22.160 --> 0:02:23.400 people may not understand. 0:02:24.000 --> 0:02:27.560 All right, So is BTS? Are they still the biggest 0:02:27.840 --> 0:02:29.639 oh good yeah pop band out there? 0:02:29.800 --> 0:02:30.519 So K pop? 0:02:30.600 --> 0:02:32.360 Because I feel like they disbanded because some of them 0:02:32.360 --> 0:02:34.200 had to serve in the South. So I'm half Korean 0:02:34.280 --> 0:02:36.960 by the way, so I have some familiarity with kpkay 0:02:37.080 --> 0:02:40.200 and all things k k okay. 0:02:40.280 --> 0:02:44.760 So BTS has not disbanded because people get very upset 0:02:44.760 --> 0:02:47.000 if you tell them that they disbanded. They're just basically 0:02:47.000 --> 0:02:49.400 on hiatus right now while they serve in the military. 0:02:49.880 --> 0:02:53.000 They will be back in twenty twenty six, they said, 0:02:53.000 --> 0:02:56.040 with a new album. In concert tickets, But I follow 0:02:56.040 --> 0:02:58.720 a lot of different groups in K pop, BTS is 0:02:58.760 --> 0:03:00.480 my favorite. I've spent a lot of money. I've seen 0:03:00.520 --> 0:03:04.480 them in concert four times and those tickets are not cheap. 0:03:04.840 --> 0:03:09.040 And as a K pop fan I mentioned to you earlier, 0:03:09.600 --> 0:03:11.920 I actually do go to Atlanta quite a bit because 0:03:12.240 --> 0:03:14.880 K pop never comes to Charlotte. They usually stop in Atlanta. 0:03:14.919 --> 0:03:16.239 So if you add up all of the money that 0:03:16.280 --> 0:03:18.200 you have to spend to just get to these concerts. 0:03:18.520 --> 0:03:20.080 It can add up to a lot. But I can't 0:03:20.080 --> 0:03:23.400 tell you where else in the world or where else 0:03:23.480 --> 0:03:25.560 in history have I felt more joy than being at 0:03:25.600 --> 0:03:26.680 a btsest. 0:03:27.360 --> 0:03:29.040 Yeah. I mean when you know that it's worth of 0:03:29.040 --> 0:03:31.359 poning up the money and yeah, it's not like you're 0:03:31.360 --> 0:03:33.480 going into debt for it, So it's totally fine. Right. 0:03:34.680 --> 0:03:36.600 Would it be so sad if the guys come back 0:03:36.640 --> 0:03:38.520 in twenty twenty six and it's like so much more 0:03:38.560 --> 0:03:42.120 serious because of their exposure to the military. 0:03:42.480 --> 0:03:44.240 They say the drama album. 0:03:45.160 --> 0:03:47.920 Well, it's funny because they're actually they've all done solo 0:03:47.960 --> 0:03:50.480 albums and there's already been some of that happening. So 0:03:50.480 --> 0:03:51.840 I think we're a little more prepared for when they 0:03:51.840 --> 0:03:52.360 all come back. 0:03:52.800 --> 0:03:54.760 Okay, man, I know who to go to if I'm 0:03:54.760 --> 0:03:58.600 looking for some behind the scenes, Right, But did that 0:03:58.880 --> 0:04:00.960 Let's kind of dig into your your past a little 0:04:00.960 --> 0:04:04.120 bit what happened back in twenty sixteen, because it sounds 0:04:04.120 --> 0:04:06.400 like that that was the year that you know, maybe 0:04:06.400 --> 0:04:08.000 you start taking personal fight and it's a little bit 0:04:08.040 --> 0:04:08.600 more seriously. 0:04:08.840 --> 0:04:11.040 Yeah, So twenty sixteen was the year that I was 0:04:11.080 --> 0:04:14.400 set to graduate from my master's in business. I went 0:04:14.440 --> 0:04:18.479 to the Kingdon Flagler School and expensive degree. It was 0:04:18.480 --> 0:04:20.279 over one hundred and twenty thousand dollars when I looked 0:04:20.279 --> 0:04:22.000 back on it. I didn't realize it was that much 0:04:22.080 --> 0:04:24.880 when I signed up for it. And I was in 0:04:24.960 --> 0:04:28.800 my last semester of my program in January and I 0:04:28.839 --> 0:04:30.800 had ten weeks left, and I said to myself, I 0:04:30.839 --> 0:04:32.640 should probably go check out how much I owe in 0:04:32.680 --> 0:04:35.200 student loans. But it can't be that much because I 0:04:35.240 --> 0:04:37.240 have been paying for it some along the way. I 0:04:37.279 --> 0:04:39.560 did get a little bit of a scholarship, so how 0:04:39.600 --> 0:04:42.359 much could it possibly be? Not realizing it was seventy 0:04:42.360 --> 0:04:45.679 two thousand dollars, and I essentially had what I called 0:04:45.760 --> 0:04:49.000 my quarter life crisis, where I literally dropped to the 0:04:49.000 --> 0:04:52.320 floor and started crying about how I had gotten into 0:04:52.360 --> 0:04:52.880 so much debt. 0:04:53.400 --> 0:04:55.400 Yeah, you're not alone in that, right that. I think 0:04:55.400 --> 0:04:59.479 that's a common experience for people, and especially hopefully we're 0:04:59.560 --> 0:05:02.120 more more cognisant of student loan debt on the front end. 0:05:02.320 --> 0:05:04.680 Now maybe there's a little bit more education around it, 0:05:04.760 --> 0:05:07.560 but there's still a lot of seventeen eighteen year olds 0:05:08.000 --> 0:05:10.280 going to college not thinking about the costs, and then 0:05:10.400 --> 0:05:12.359 four years later, they're like, oh my gosh, what have 0:05:12.440 --> 0:05:16.000 I done? You had what three hundred thousand dollars in 0:05:16.080 --> 0:05:19.520 debt overall? And I believe you said your plan was 0:05:19.839 --> 0:05:22.520 just to work hard, maybe take some of the notes 0:05:22.520 --> 0:05:25.200 of the grindstone mentality. How did that work out? 0:05:25.760 --> 0:05:27.719 It worked for a little while until I got completely 0:05:27.720 --> 0:05:31.600 burned out and started rethinking all of my life choices. 0:05:31.880 --> 0:05:37.400 And I'm first generation Filipino American. My father had nine kids. 0:05:37.480 --> 0:05:39.760 I'm the eighth of the nine kids, and there is 0:05:39.800 --> 0:05:42.040 just always this mentality that you have to work hard, 0:05:42.080 --> 0:05:45.240 and that money is scarce, and that it's actually hard 0:05:45.279 --> 0:05:48.719 to make money. And so I thought that the solution 0:05:48.839 --> 0:05:53.039 to this was, Okay, after I graduate from this prestigious program, 0:05:53.120 --> 0:05:55.120 I'm going to get a really great paying job and 0:05:55.160 --> 0:05:57.120 then just work on paying off the student loans and 0:05:57.160 --> 0:05:59.280 work off paying all of these other debts, and then 0:05:59.279 --> 0:06:02.440 everything will be fine. Right. Except when I was planning 0:06:02.480 --> 0:06:04.840 to graduate, I had no desire to go back to 0:06:04.880 --> 0:06:07.279 a corporate job, and I was actually thinking about becoming 0:06:07.320 --> 0:06:11.400 an entrepreneur someday. And that's where I realized that working hard, 0:06:11.520 --> 0:06:14.560 especially working hard for another employer, might not be the 0:06:14.640 --> 0:06:15.240 right path for me. 0:06:15.720 --> 0:06:19.039 Did any of the fact that you being a Frisian immigrant, 0:06:19.320 --> 0:06:21.880 I guess how much did that impact maybe how you 0:06:21.960 --> 0:06:23.800 viewed the world, how you viewed your debt, how you 0:06:23.920 --> 0:06:26.039 viewed your career, and maybe sort of the path that 0:06:26.080 --> 0:06:26.960 you might pursue. 0:06:27.279 --> 0:06:30.440 It was a huge part of how I viewed not 0:06:30.480 --> 0:06:35.320 just the world, but finances in general and specifically personal finance. 0:06:35.400 --> 0:06:39.200 My father was actually an accountant by trade, my mom 0:06:39.279 --> 0:06:41.880 was a bookkeeper, and then my younger brother ended up 0:06:41.920 --> 0:06:45.800 becoming an accountant also, and so there's this whole idea that, oh, well, 0:06:45.839 --> 0:06:49.719 if you're good with money kind of academically, that it 0:06:49.760 --> 0:06:52.440 should be fine personally. But it turned out that my 0:06:52.640 --> 0:06:55.720 father was not great with money personally for a lot 0:06:55.720 --> 0:06:58.400 of different reasons. He had a ton of debt actually 0:06:58.400 --> 0:07:02.280 throughout his lifetime also, and he was someone who was 0:07:02.320 --> 0:07:04.680 supposed to be good with money because he did finances 0:07:04.720 --> 0:07:08.839 for a company. So when I realized specifically that there's 0:07:08.880 --> 0:07:12.080 also these kind of cultural values in Filipino culture where 0:07:12.400 --> 0:07:14.160 you don't talk about how much money you have, but 0:07:14.200 --> 0:07:16.720 you show people by your nice car and your nice 0:07:16.760 --> 0:07:20.360 house and your nice clothes, but you are never allowed 0:07:20.400 --> 0:07:22.720 to tell people that you're struggling. I really had a 0:07:22.720 --> 0:07:25.880 hard time reconciling my cultural values with what was actually 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:26.920 happening to me personally. 0:07:27.840 --> 0:07:31.280 What did your debt payoff strategy look like? What were 0:07:31.320 --> 0:07:34.800 you tapping into and what sort of route were you 0:07:34.840 --> 0:07:36.960 trying to take when you realize, because that could be 0:07:36.960 --> 0:07:39.280 an overwhelming amount to be like, okay, three hundred thousand 0:07:39.320 --> 0:07:42.160 dollars in debt racked up, where do I even start? 0:07:42.640 --> 0:07:45.720 Some people get just completely frazzled, up ended in the 0:07:45.800 --> 0:07:48.920 beginning and they just kind of go Ostrich effect and 0:07:48.920 --> 0:07:51.120 buried their head in the sand. What were the practical 0:07:51.120 --> 0:07:52.960 steps for you when it came to kind of getting 0:07:53.000 --> 0:07:54.320 rid of that debt going down that path? 0:07:54.680 --> 0:07:57.239 Yeah, well, if I'd be totally honest, I did bury 0:07:57.280 --> 0:07:59.200 my head in the sand for a good forty eight 0:07:59.200 --> 0:08:02.800 hours for I let myself feel my feelings about what 0:08:02.880 --> 0:08:04.840 kind of decisions they had to make, and really thinking 0:08:04.840 --> 0:08:06.280 about what I wanted to do next. But once I 0:08:06.320 --> 0:08:08.960 got my head out of my butt, I would say 0:08:09.560 --> 0:08:13.920 I started first looking at just the student loans, which 0:08:14.000 --> 0:08:16.760 was seventy two thousand dollars of the three hundred thousand dollars, 0:08:17.240 --> 0:08:20.200 and I went and looked at what that total amount 0:08:20.280 --> 0:08:21.920 was broken up to, and it was actually broken up 0:08:21.960 --> 0:08:25.120 into several smaller loans. A couple and we're twenty thousand dollars. 0:08:25.200 --> 0:08:26.640 A couple of them were ten thousand, a couple of 0:08:26.680 --> 0:08:29.560 them were five thousand dollars. And I decided to go 0:08:29.600 --> 0:08:32.680 with a snowball approach because truth be told, back then, 0:08:32.840 --> 0:08:35.320 all I did was google what was out there, and 0:08:35.400 --> 0:08:38.800 at the time, the guy with the most advertising dollars 0:08:38.960 --> 0:08:41.880 was Dave Ramsey, and so I just listened a lot 0:08:41.960 --> 0:08:46.200 to his podcast, and I tried this snowball method, which 0:08:46.240 --> 0:08:48.880 felt felt like it resonated with me in the sense 0:08:48.920 --> 0:08:50.839 of I am the type of person who if I 0:08:50.880 --> 0:08:52.960 don't see progress in a short amount of time, I 0:08:53.000 --> 0:08:55.839 will just give up. I will just get home and 0:08:55.440 --> 0:08:56.560 not keep going. 0:08:56.640 --> 0:08:58.360 I think most people know what the snowball method is, 0:08:58.400 --> 0:09:00.600 but will you just quickly explain what and why you 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.160 went with that and kind of the thinking behind why 0:09:03.160 --> 0:09:03.800 that's superior? 0:09:04.120 --> 0:09:07.360 Sure, So, the snowball method simply says that, regardless of 0:09:07.440 --> 0:09:11.760 interest rate, you go for tackling your debts from smallest 0:09:11.760 --> 0:09:13.680 amount to biggest amount. So in the case of my 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:17.320 student loans, I decided to tackle these smaller five thousand 0:09:17.360 --> 0:09:19.720 dollar loans first before I tried to tackle these twenty 0:09:19.760 --> 0:09:22.319 thousand dollars loans. And I broke it up into these 0:09:22.360 --> 0:09:25.160 different segments versus thinking, oh, I have seventy two thousand 0:09:25.200 --> 0:09:27.120 dollars all together, I don't know where to start with that, 0:09:27.480 --> 0:09:29.199 But can I figure out how to just pay off 0:09:29.200 --> 0:09:31.720 this first five thousand dollars to get some momentum. And 0:09:31.760 --> 0:09:35.480 that was hugely helpful for me to actually see these loans, 0:09:35.520 --> 0:09:38.360 say closed, have zero balance on them before I moved 0:09:38.400 --> 0:09:41.760 on to the bigger ones. But I will say that 0:09:42.080 --> 0:09:45.280 I did that snowball method in the sense of you 0:09:45.280 --> 0:09:47.000 have to pair that with well, how are you actually 0:09:47.000 --> 0:09:49.800 going to get money to pay towards the debt? And 0:09:49.840 --> 0:09:51.480 I did what everyone else did in the beginning. I 0:09:51.559 --> 0:09:54.160 just I hustled a lot. I got my husband to 0:09:54.240 --> 0:09:55.880 hustle a lot. I mean we were doing all sorts 0:09:55.880 --> 0:10:00.240 of stuff. We were extras on TV, we were I mean, 0:10:00.240 --> 0:10:03.800 he was driving uber, I was selling jewelry. I mean 0:10:04.679 --> 0:10:09.319 I started I actually started charging people to help review 0:10:09.320 --> 0:10:12.160 their resumes because back then I was in HR and 0:10:12.200 --> 0:10:15.440 that eventually turned into my financial education program. I never 0:10:15.520 --> 0:10:17.800 knew that was going to turn into my next career, 0:10:18.400 --> 0:10:20.760 but we tried a lot of different things of okay, 0:10:20.760 --> 0:10:23.000 instead of trying to figure out new skill sets, like 0:10:23.040 --> 0:10:25.160 what skill sets do we already have and how could 0:10:25.200 --> 0:10:27.120 we make even a little bit of money towards it 0:10:27.200 --> 0:10:29.880 better than trying to waste time trying to figure out 0:10:29.920 --> 0:10:30.360 something new. 0:10:30.440 --> 0:10:32.439 So, okay, I'm curious. I want to dig just a 0:10:32.480 --> 0:10:35.600 little bit on the side hustle. Thing Like driving for 0:10:35.679 --> 0:10:37.080 Uber is one thing, right, I think that's like the 0:10:37.080 --> 0:10:39.000 easy button. But it sounds like you were able to 0:10:39.000 --> 0:10:41.280 find other ways to make money that were more in 0:10:41.320 --> 0:10:44.120 line with the skill set that you had, that could 0:10:44.160 --> 0:10:47.400 potentially earn you more than just like the lowest common 0:10:47.559 --> 0:10:49.000 denominator side hustle. Yeah. 0:10:49.120 --> 0:10:51.560 Yeah, I had two side hustles back then. Both of 0:10:51.559 --> 0:10:54.199 them ended up turning into full time businesses later down 0:10:54.240 --> 0:10:58.120 the road, and they were completely unrelated. One of them 0:10:58.360 --> 0:11:01.640 was to help people review their resumes. I would literally 0:11:01.760 --> 0:11:04.520 either just give them feedback on their resume or I 0:11:04.520 --> 0:11:07.520 would edit their resumes for them. Obviously, editing them would 0:11:07.520 --> 0:11:10.720 cost them more money, and I started charging nineteen dollars 0:11:11.000 --> 0:11:13.360 for that, and then I eventually over time was able 0:11:13.360 --> 0:11:16.640 to charge four hundred dollars for that. See a pretty 0:11:16.640 --> 0:11:19.800 big increase, Yeah, pretty big increase. It was little by little, 0:11:19.840 --> 0:11:22.120 But I actually had a really great client one day 0:11:22.120 --> 0:11:24.760 who told me he was the nicest person. He told me, 0:11:25.240 --> 0:11:29.000 you severely undercharged me for this, so you did a 0:11:29.040 --> 0:11:31.679 really good job. Yeah. I thought that was really nice. 0:11:31.720 --> 0:11:34.400 I'll always remember that. And then my other side hustle 0:11:34.720 --> 0:11:38.760 was actually helping women get dressed for special occasions. And 0:11:38.840 --> 0:11:42.400 so I collected all of these dresses from different women 0:11:42.440 --> 0:11:44.720 who weren't using it at the time. I said, let 0:11:44.760 --> 0:11:47.520 me borrow these dresses and lend them to other women 0:11:47.679 --> 0:11:49.400 and help them get dressed for these events. And that 0:11:49.440 --> 0:11:52.120 turned into another side hustle that I actually found to 0:11:52.120 --> 0:11:55.679 be really fun, but also started started helping me think 0:11:55.720 --> 0:11:58.280 about personal finance because I saw how much women were 0:11:58.320 --> 0:12:00.600 spending on these dresses that they were only wearing one time. 0:12:01.160 --> 0:12:04.559 That's like rent the runway, but on a very individual level. 0:12:04.640 --> 0:12:06.520 Yeah, I was. Actually I built it as the local 0:12:06.559 --> 0:12:08.880 rent runway in Charlotte. I was the only game in 0:12:08.920 --> 0:12:12.760 town Belk at the time. I used to have people 0:12:12.760 --> 0:12:14.160 who would come to me and they would say, oh, 0:12:14.200 --> 0:12:16.280 I went to Belch to go look for address there 0:12:16.320 --> 0:12:17.640 and they told me to come here, and so that 0:12:17.720 --> 0:12:19.920 was pretty fun that people did. 0:12:20.040 --> 0:12:23.600 That's amazing, And so you eliminated all that debt. And 0:12:23.800 --> 0:12:26.280 at this point, you know, it seems like you're set 0:12:26.280 --> 0:12:28.200 to retire like in your forties because of all this 0:12:28.240 --> 0:12:30.520 hard work and the smart money moves that you've made. 0:12:30.920 --> 0:12:33.120 But I've heard you say too that you don't have 0:12:33.240 --> 0:12:36.640 any desire to actually retire early. And maybe that has 0:12:36.640 --> 0:12:38.920 something to do with the energy that you. 0:12:38.840 --> 0:12:39.560 Bring to life. 0:12:39.880 --> 0:12:42.200 Why then, have you worked so dang hard and invested 0:12:42.440 --> 0:12:44.680 in the way that you happen over the past few years. 0:12:44.880 --> 0:12:47.640 You know, I'm still unraveling what that might mean for me. 0:12:47.920 --> 0:12:53.480 I turned forty this year, and I never imagined that 0:12:53.720 --> 0:12:57.120 I would have enough invested that I could retire if 0:12:57.160 --> 0:13:00.160 I wanted to. So I spent so much time I'm 0:13:00.160 --> 0:13:01.520 in the last couple of years, and I think this 0:13:01.600 --> 0:13:05.000 is some of the downside I think of being very 0:13:05.160 --> 0:13:07.480 enamored with personal finances that you can get wrapped up 0:13:07.480 --> 0:13:10.280 in it so much so that you don't really think 0:13:10.440 --> 0:13:12.760 about what you would do once you actually complete the 0:13:12.760 --> 0:13:15.840 goal later on. And so I'm unraveling that right now. 0:13:15.880 --> 0:13:20.160 And I've had really interesting conversations with other financial experts 0:13:20.280 --> 0:13:22.839 in their fifties and sixties. I had another financial expert 0:13:22.880 --> 0:13:26.440 who told me, he said, you know what, BS, I 0:13:26.480 --> 0:13:28.240 bet you you're going to be back in three years 0:13:28.280 --> 0:13:30.160 if you decided to retire now, because you're not going 0:13:30.200 --> 0:13:32.200 to be able to sit still. And I said to him, 0:13:32.559 --> 0:13:34.320 you know what, that might be true three. 0:13:34.200 --> 0:13:35.320 Years, more like three months. 0:13:36.400 --> 0:13:37.920 I said, that could be true. But you know what, 0:13:38.000 --> 0:13:40.760 I have never had in an extended period of time 0:13:40.880 --> 0:13:43.200 in my forty years on Earth where I just did 0:13:43.200 --> 0:13:46.440 whatever I wanted and I didn't think about money. Yeah, 0:13:46.480 --> 0:13:48.520 and so I just want to try it. So this 0:13:48.679 --> 0:13:51.600 year I'm planning to travel a ton more than I 0:13:51.640 --> 0:13:54.080 have before. My husband and I are actually going to 0:13:54.120 --> 0:13:56.439 do that whole full time digital nomap. We were kind 0:13:56.440 --> 0:13:59.880 of part time at this point. And I also decided 0:14:00.000 --> 0:14:01.680 that I want to just focus on some of the 0:14:01.720 --> 0:14:04.040 things that I have been interested in but have been 0:14:04.080 --> 0:14:07.920 scared to do. So I mentioned to you before we 0:14:08.000 --> 0:14:11.680 got on here that I am taking improv classes and 0:14:11.760 --> 0:14:14.560 I'm excited for that. I just signed up for swimming lessons. 0:14:14.559 --> 0:14:17.360 Here's a fun fact I don't know how to swim. 0:14:17.679 --> 0:14:20.560 I have never carved out the time to go learn 0:14:20.600 --> 0:14:22.520 how to swim, and it's kind of embarrassing to go 0:14:22.600 --> 0:14:25.240 look for adult swimming lessons because all of the swimming 0:14:25.280 --> 0:14:28.040 lessons are for kids. But I found one yesterday and 0:14:28.040 --> 0:14:28.680 I'm really excited. 0:14:28.760 --> 0:14:28.960 Great. 0:14:28.960 --> 0:14:32.760 You don't understand full immersion swimming is evidently what it's 0:14:32.760 --> 0:14:33.160 all about. 0:14:33.320 --> 0:14:36.320 Oh really, what does that mean? I think you were talking. 0:14:36.120 --> 0:14:38.520 About it like a decade ago, but like basically like 0:14:38.520 --> 0:14:40.600 there's a natural instinct to keep your face above water, 0:14:40.840 --> 0:14:43.840 but it's sort of like the exact opposite of the 0:14:44.280 --> 0:14:47.120 natural inclination and just literally maybe forcing your face into 0:14:47.160 --> 0:14:49.560 the water because that's how you're able to essentially streamline, 0:14:49.640 --> 0:14:51.440 and that's how you swim, and not only swim, but 0:14:51.480 --> 0:14:54.280 swe fast. But aside from that, Oh, you said something 0:14:54.280 --> 0:14:57.160 about y'all doing like the full nomad thing like you've 0:14:57.160 --> 0:14:59.920 done sort of like maybe the part time digital no 0:15:00.080 --> 0:15:02.680 mad life. I think a part of maybe what allows 0:15:02.720 --> 0:15:04.040 you to do that is the fact that you don't 0:15:04.040 --> 0:15:04.760 own your own home. 0:15:05.080 --> 0:15:05.480 Is that right? 0:15:05.560 --> 0:15:07.040 Is that still the case? From what I understand? 0:15:07.040 --> 0:15:07.480 You rent? 0:15:07.960 --> 0:15:10.560 And is that flexibility a big part of what factored 0:15:10.720 --> 0:15:11.560 into that for y'all. 0:15:11.760 --> 0:15:14.280 Yes, So, my husband and I, part of some of 0:15:14.320 --> 0:15:16.520 that debt that we had paid off was also a 0:15:16.600 --> 0:15:20.200 mortgage debt, and we decided one day to sell all 0:15:20.240 --> 0:15:25.880 of our real estate that we had and we decided 0:15:25.920 --> 0:15:29.080 to go back to renting, and people around us really 0:15:29.080 --> 0:15:31.920 thought we were crazy. They were like, I don't understand 0:15:32.000 --> 0:15:34.720 why you would have a paid off home and then 0:15:35.000 --> 0:15:38.880 sell it, And my husband and I one day we 0:15:38.960 --> 0:15:42.120 realized and unfortunately it wasn't a kind of happy scenario. 0:15:42.160 --> 0:15:44.600 But my father passed away suddenly in twenty twenty one, 0:15:44.720 --> 0:15:47.080 and it was still when the pandemic wasn't allowing people 0:15:47.120 --> 0:15:50.920 to have these mass gatherings, and so my husband and 0:15:50.920 --> 0:15:54.520 I had to fly to Las Vegas, where my mom 0:15:54.560 --> 0:15:56.680 and my father lived, to help take care of things, 0:15:56.720 --> 0:15:58.920 and I had to take some time off of work, 0:15:58.920 --> 0:16:00.840 which I was so grateful by that point that we 0:16:00.880 --> 0:16:03.360 had saved up enough money that if I needed to 0:16:03.360 --> 0:16:05.520 take time, an extended period of time off of work, 0:16:05.560 --> 0:16:09.240 I could do that. But when we came back and 0:16:09.280 --> 0:16:12.160 we had done the whole airbnb situation, we were like, Okay, 0:16:12.200 --> 0:16:14.440 well we still need to make money off of this property. 0:16:14.520 --> 0:16:16.840 Let's try to airb and be it, and I had 0:16:16.840 --> 0:16:20.040 this airbnb guest who was complaining about she didn't know 0:16:20.080 --> 0:16:24.040 where to put the soap in the shower, and at 0:16:24.080 --> 0:16:26.200 the time, I was thinking, Okay, my father just passed away, 0:16:26.240 --> 0:16:27.880 Like this is really not a problem that I care 0:16:27.920 --> 0:16:31.440 about right now. And so I thought about, well, if 0:16:31.440 --> 0:16:34.160 we're going to travel like this for extended periods of time, 0:16:35.440 --> 0:16:37.880 either we leave the house empty or we're going to 0:16:37.920 --> 0:16:40.040 rent it out, but have potential scenarios like this where 0:16:40.040 --> 0:16:42.600 people are reaching out to us for things that we 0:16:42.640 --> 0:16:45.040 need to do for property management. So we said, you 0:16:45.040 --> 0:16:48.480 know what, let's see what it looks like to not 0:16:48.560 --> 0:16:51.320 have real estate. And we also wanted to live closer 0:16:51.320 --> 0:16:53.400 to where we wanted to be. We had lived out 0:16:53.400 --> 0:16:55.920 in the suburbs, and there's no shade against the suburbs. 0:16:55.960 --> 0:16:58.720 I really enjoyed living there, but for us at this 0:16:58.800 --> 0:17:01.680 moment in our our our lives, we were more interested 0:17:01.720 --> 0:17:04.480 in being closer to the arts and closer to where 0:17:04.480 --> 0:17:06.960 my clients were, and so we decided to rent. But 0:17:07.000 --> 0:17:10.520 now it's afforded us the ability to not only travel 0:17:10.920 --> 0:17:13.719 more frequently, but I've taken the amount of money that 0:17:13.760 --> 0:17:17.520 we took from real estate and started practicing other types 0:17:17.560 --> 0:17:18.160 of investment. 0:17:18.680 --> 0:17:20.840 I think you're pointing out something here like this is 0:17:20.880 --> 0:17:23.119 like a perpetual debate in personal finance. Right is the 0:17:23.160 --> 0:17:26.800 rent versus buy conundrum? And there are brilliant points on 0:17:26.840 --> 0:17:29.480 both sides of the equation. There was somebody the other 0:17:29.560 --> 0:17:33.280 day in our Facebook group who lambassed us for offering 0:17:33.320 --> 0:17:35.760 any sort of nuanced take about buying versus renting, and 0:17:35.800 --> 0:17:38.720 he was basically saying buying is always the right decision. 0:17:38.840 --> 0:17:41.440 Buy now before prices continue to go up. And that's 0:17:41.480 --> 0:17:46.200 just not taking into account people's different individual situations, their hopes, 0:17:46.200 --> 0:17:50.360 their dreams, their desires, like their desired level of flexibility, 0:17:50.720 --> 0:17:52.960 And yeah, I don't know. How do you help people 0:17:53.359 --> 0:17:56.640 think through whether they should be buyers or renters. 0:17:57.119 --> 0:18:00.760 I do this frequently with all of my coaching clients. 0:18:01.160 --> 0:18:02.679 And one of the first things I do when I 0:18:02.720 --> 0:18:04.679 take them on as a coaching client is I do 0:18:04.760 --> 0:18:07.800 this exercise with them. It's called it would be cool 0:18:07.840 --> 0:18:11.000 if and for five minutes, I just have them do 0:18:11.040 --> 0:18:14.399 this stream of consciousness, just keep answering this question. It 0:18:14.400 --> 0:18:19.320 would be cool if X, y Z and almost always 0:18:19.720 --> 0:18:21.520 travel comes up. It would be cool if I could 0:18:21.520 --> 0:18:23.320 travel the world. It could be cool if I travel 0:18:23.359 --> 0:18:25.879 to Europe, or it would be cool if I could, 0:18:26.080 --> 0:18:28.879