1 00:00:03,040 --> 00:00:05,880 Speaker 1: Welcome to Stuff to Blow your Mind from how Stuff 2 00:00:05,880 --> 00:00:14,720 Speaker 1: Works dot com. Hey, welcome to stuff to Blow your mind. 3 00:00:14,800 --> 00:00:17,320 Speaker 1: My name is Robert Lamb and I'm Joe McCormick. Hey, 4 00:00:17,400 --> 00:00:19,960 Speaker 1: And here in the United States is the week of 5 00:00:20,000 --> 00:00:25,759 Speaker 1: one of our weirdest national holidays, Thanksgiving, the celebration of eating, well, yes, eating, 6 00:00:25,880 --> 00:00:31,400 Speaker 1: and and family and sort of imperfect recollections of US history, 7 00:00:32,120 --> 00:00:34,479 Speaker 1: as well as, of course mystery science theater three thousand. 8 00:00:34,520 --> 00:00:37,839 Speaker 1: That's that's what I associated with Turkey Day Marathon. No, 9 00:00:38,040 --> 00:00:41,000 Speaker 1: I think Thanksgiving is a weird holiday, especially for listeners 10 00:00:41,040 --> 00:00:43,400 Speaker 1: outside the United States who probably have heard of it. 11 00:00:43,440 --> 00:00:46,160 Speaker 1: But you know, you don't have it in your own country. Well, 12 00:00:46,159 --> 00:00:47,680 Speaker 1: if you have it in Canada, you have it at 13 00:00:47,680 --> 00:00:49,960 Speaker 1: a different time of a year too. So really, I 14 00:00:49,960 --> 00:00:53,040 Speaker 1: didn't even know that thanks Canadian Thanksgiving is so slightly 15 00:00:53,080 --> 00:00:56,000 Speaker 1: different than America. My ignorance has no bounds. But no, 16 00:00:56,200 --> 00:00:58,480 Speaker 1: Thanksgiving is weird because I don't know if you see 17 00:00:58,520 --> 00:01:03,400 Speaker 1: it this way. Most holidays involve feasting as a feature 18 00:01:03,440 --> 00:01:06,920 Speaker 1: of the holiday, but Thanksgiving is the only holiday that 19 00:01:07,120 --> 00:01:11,760 Speaker 1: is about feasting. It seems like that is the content 20 00:01:11,840 --> 00:01:15,600 Speaker 1: of the holiday. Yeah, or at least the feasting aspect 21 00:01:15,640 --> 00:01:18,920 Speaker 1: of it has become so bloated that it eclipses everything else, right, 22 00:01:19,280 --> 00:01:22,920 Speaker 1: and and then likewise we become so bloated we eclipse 23 00:01:22,959 --> 00:01:25,920 Speaker 1: everything else as well. It's a tradition, and in the 24 00:01:25,959 --> 00:01:28,920 Speaker 1: spirit of continuing traditions, we're actually continuing a stuff to 25 00:01:28,920 --> 00:01:32,720 Speaker 1: blow your mind tradition here today with the third episode 26 00:01:32,840 --> 00:01:36,039 Speaker 1: in our Dangerous Food series, which is a sort of 27 00:01:36,120 --> 00:01:39,600 Speaker 1: cheeky look at foods that can actually have some negative 28 00:01:39,600 --> 00:01:44,360 Speaker 1: consequences if consumed under certain circumstances or uh, not consumed 29 00:01:44,400 --> 00:01:46,600 Speaker 1: in the right way, not prepared in the right way, 30 00:01:46,959 --> 00:01:51,320 Speaker 1: but also with an eye towards avoiding food panic. Right, Yeah, Like, 31 00:01:51,360 --> 00:01:53,280 Speaker 1: one of the important things to stress here is that 32 00:01:53,600 --> 00:01:57,360 Speaker 1: if you eat just about any food the wrong way, uh, 33 00:01:57,960 --> 00:02:00,520 Speaker 1: some bad stuff can happen. Yeah. Eating is sort of 34 00:02:00,560 --> 00:02:05,800 Speaker 1: like a really incredibly complicated chemistry experiment that you do 35 00:02:06,280 --> 00:02:09,600 Speaker 1: with your own life and your own health as the 36 00:02:09,720 --> 00:02:12,880 Speaker 1: like as the potential outcomes of the experiment. Certainly, when 37 00:02:12,919 --> 00:02:17,359 Speaker 1: you eat another organism, you're going to encounter its unique biochemistry. 38 00:02:17,440 --> 00:02:20,800 Speaker 1: So with with an animal that might be it's you know, 39 00:02:20,919 --> 00:02:25,120 Speaker 1: venomous glands or or you know, yucky viscera or whatever 40 00:02:25,240 --> 00:02:28,359 Speaker 1: it was eating, correct, Yeah, pollution that it's that is 41 00:02:28,800 --> 00:02:32,320 Speaker 1: entered into its system, but also just about any spice 42 00:02:32,720 --> 00:02:37,000 Speaker 1: and so many different uh plants that we consume. You 43 00:02:37,000 --> 00:02:39,880 Speaker 1: also have to take into account what sort of uh 44 00:02:40,000 --> 00:02:43,320 Speaker 1: chemical weapons do they have as part of their biology 45 00:02:43,639 --> 00:02:45,920 Speaker 1: that we will be taking into ours. I don't know. 46 00:02:45,960 --> 00:02:49,960 Speaker 1: Maybe you eat organisms. I I advocated an entirely synthetic 47 00:02:50,040 --> 00:02:53,840 Speaker 1: diet composed entirely of molecules fabricated in a lab. Or 48 00:02:53,880 --> 00:02:57,240 Speaker 1: what's the what's the soil and stuff? Right? Has that 49 00:02:57,320 --> 00:03:00,280 Speaker 1: made from organisms? Or is that just a comple eat 50 00:03:01,639 --> 00:03:04,520 Speaker 1: a complete fabrication? You know, I'd actually have to assume 51 00:03:04,560 --> 00:03:07,959 Speaker 1: that almost anything you could eat is in some way 52 00:03:08,000 --> 00:03:10,680 Speaker 1: derived from an organism, even if it was never a 53 00:03:10,720 --> 00:03:13,799 Speaker 1: living plant or animal, it's a thing made from some 54 00:03:13,880 --> 00:03:16,280 Speaker 1: kind of plant or animal source. Yeah, we're not quite 55 00:03:16,400 --> 00:03:20,040 Speaker 1: yet at that Star Trek level of just push a 56 00:03:20,040 --> 00:03:22,239 Speaker 1: few buttons on a machine and it will spit out 57 00:03:22,240 --> 00:03:26,320 Speaker 1: an artificial similacrum of of what you want to eat. Right, 58 00:03:26,400 --> 00:03:29,360 Speaker 1: this hamburger was not made from rocks. It might have 59 00:03:29,400 --> 00:03:32,040 Speaker 1: been made from plants, but not from rocks. So I 60 00:03:32,080 --> 00:03:35,960 Speaker 1: see people in the office drinking soilent, and it makes 61 00:03:35,960 --> 00:03:37,920 Speaker 1: me think that we might be there, that this might 62 00:03:38,000 --> 00:03:41,080 Speaker 1: just be, you know, a complete fabrication. It's brought here 63 00:03:41,120 --> 00:03:43,520 Speaker 1: on a spaceship. I guess obviously the answer is that 64 00:03:43,560 --> 00:03:46,520 Speaker 1: we should do a ten part series on soilent. Probably 65 00:03:46,560 --> 00:03:50,400 Speaker 1: that's what the people want. So if I'm just kidding folks, 66 00:03:50,440 --> 00:03:53,920 Speaker 1: please don't run away. Yeah, I mean, unless you're soilent 67 00:03:53,960 --> 00:03:55,640 Speaker 1: and you want to advertise on our show, then I 68 00:03:55,680 --> 00:03:59,320 Speaker 1: guess yes, Um, we'll see. But hey, well we're gonna 69 00:03:59,360 --> 00:04:02,080 Speaker 1: make a lot of end means in uh in big 70 00:04:02,360 --> 00:04:05,960 Speaker 1: big food nagrobusiness today. So maybe once we've forever closed 71 00:04:05,960 --> 00:04:08,920 Speaker 1: the door on getting a sponsorship from Jolly ranchers or whatever, 72 00:04:10,240 --> 00:04:12,360 Speaker 1: we can open ourselves up to the to the evil 73 00:04:12,400 --> 00:04:16,159 Speaker 1: soil in dollars. That's right. So, as usual in this series, 74 00:04:16,360 --> 00:04:19,719 Speaker 1: our goal here is not to say oh at unusual 75 00:04:19,760 --> 00:04:24,880 Speaker 1: foods or to cast as xenophobic scorn on other culinary customs. Rather, 76 00:04:25,760 --> 00:04:30,880 Speaker 1: these traditions are fascinating, and the risks associating associated with 77 00:04:30,880 --> 00:04:33,320 Speaker 1: certain dishes. I think they force us to re examine 78 00:04:33,320 --> 00:04:36,320 Speaker 1: the foods that we eat on a day to day basis. Yeah, 79 00:04:36,360 --> 00:04:38,320 Speaker 1: they force you to to think about it in the 80 00:04:38,400 --> 00:04:41,159 Speaker 1: terms I brought up earlier, the fact that your diet, 81 00:04:41,279 --> 00:04:44,919 Speaker 1: all the food and drink you consume, is this ongoing 82 00:04:45,040 --> 00:04:48,800 Speaker 1: chemistry experiment with your body's health on the line. And 83 00:04:48,880 --> 00:04:51,520 Speaker 1: most of the time we really, I mean, we're we're 84 00:04:51,520 --> 00:04:54,440 Speaker 1: playing kind of fast and loose with this experiment. I 85 00:04:54,440 --> 00:04:58,039 Speaker 1: mean we we experiment on things because they taste good 86 00:04:58,520 --> 00:05:00,479 Speaker 1: or because they make you feel a certa in a way, 87 00:05:00,839 --> 00:05:03,680 Speaker 1: not so much because we've usually done deep research and 88 00:05:03,720 --> 00:05:06,480 Speaker 1: exactly what the chemical effects of them are once they 89 00:05:06,600 --> 00:05:11,200 Speaker 1: enter our metabolism. That's uh, that's something we find out, 90 00:05:11,760 --> 00:05:14,160 Speaker 1: you know, decades down the line in some cases, right, 91 00:05:14,240 --> 00:05:17,080 Speaker 1: and you read about in the British Medical Journal exactly. 92 00:05:17,160 --> 00:05:19,520 Speaker 1: We'll take a few four ways into that journal today. 93 00:05:19,760 --> 00:05:23,240 Speaker 1: But first, for for our first course in this multi 94 00:05:23,240 --> 00:05:26,679 Speaker 1: course feast of potentially dangerous foods, I think we should 95 00:05:26,680 --> 00:05:29,280 Speaker 1: have dessert. Well, yeah, let's let's do it. Let's start 96 00:05:29,279 --> 00:05:32,479 Speaker 1: with dessert. Everything is kind of super rich at Thanksgiving 97 00:05:32,480 --> 00:05:35,120 Speaker 1: dinner anyway, so I've always thought it doesn't matter what 98 00:05:35,320 --> 00:05:38,120 Speaker 1: order you're taking it in, right, right, I mean, the 99 00:05:38,120 --> 00:05:40,919 Speaker 1: sweet potato casserole is as sweet as the dessert, and 100 00:05:40,960 --> 00:05:44,120 Speaker 1: it served with the turkey. So you know what's the difference. 101 00:05:44,200 --> 00:05:47,560 Speaker 1: Are you a sweet potato casserole? Guy? It's a when 102 00:05:47,560 --> 00:05:49,440 Speaker 1: I was a kid. Yes, Now I find it a 103 00:05:49,480 --> 00:05:51,560 Speaker 1: bit too sweet. Yeah, I can't. I can't do it. 104 00:05:51,600 --> 00:05:53,960 Speaker 1: I can't deal with it. Okay, Well I'll check you 105 00:05:53,960 --> 00:05:58,240 Speaker 1: on another sweet food here. Black licorice thumbs up, thumbs down. 106 00:05:58,279 --> 00:06:02,760 Speaker 1: You've got thoughts, black liquorice, the candy like the black Twizzler. Yeah, 107 00:06:02,839 --> 00:06:06,080 Speaker 1: the wax of Belisle is that what they call it? 108 00:06:06,400 --> 00:06:09,640 Speaker 1: Is in the Demon Belisle. I think somebody calls in 109 00:06:09,680 --> 00:06:14,400 Speaker 1: the in the Wizard's Compendium. I I never had an 110 00:06:14,440 --> 00:06:19,680 Speaker 1: appreciation for candy licorice, black licorice as a as a child. 111 00:06:19,760 --> 00:06:23,240 Speaker 1: I always prefer the ultimately kind of equally grotesque a 112 00:06:23,320 --> 00:06:26,400 Speaker 1: twizzler candy, the red twizzler, you know. Oh yeah, it's 113 00:06:26,440 --> 00:06:29,880 Speaker 1: just straight up sugary. Doesn't have the kind of herbal 114 00:06:30,240 --> 00:06:34,839 Speaker 1: bouquet of licorice. Yeah. So the wax of Belisle is 115 00:06:34,960 --> 00:06:40,520 Speaker 1: I think widely considered a disgusting abomination. I can't so 116 00:06:40,640 --> 00:06:43,640 Speaker 1: I'm weird because it's often put in this family with 117 00:06:43,680 --> 00:06:47,880 Speaker 1: other very similar flavors like Annis and finnel and things 118 00:06:47,920 --> 00:06:51,040 Speaker 1: like that. But I like those flavors and I don't 119 00:06:51,040 --> 00:06:53,240 Speaker 1: like black liquorice, And I'm not sure exactly what the 120 00:06:53,240 --> 00:06:56,479 Speaker 1: difference is. Obviously they've got some kind of flavor and 121 00:06:56,520 --> 00:07:00,799 Speaker 1: aroma overlap, but there's something about the black liquorish candy 122 00:07:00,800 --> 00:07:03,440 Speaker 1: that just repels me in a way that these other 123 00:07:03,480 --> 00:07:06,080 Speaker 1: flavors don't. Well, I mean, in one hand, you can say, 124 00:07:06,120 --> 00:07:08,640 Speaker 1: like the candy version of anything runs the risk of 125 00:07:08,680 --> 00:07:13,480 Speaker 1: being grotesque at least, you know too, adult palettes or 126 00:07:13,600 --> 00:07:15,160 Speaker 1: are certainly I mean. The other thing you have to 127 00:07:15,240 --> 00:07:17,880 Speaker 1: keep in mind, too, is like when at what point 128 00:07:17,880 --> 00:07:20,560 Speaker 1: in human history you're eating liquorice. Are you eating liquorice 129 00:07:20,600 --> 00:07:24,080 Speaker 1: when it's one of the few choices for sweet candy, 130 00:07:24,960 --> 00:07:26,600 Speaker 1: or if you are you eating or are you eating 131 00:07:26,600 --> 00:07:30,000 Speaker 1: it in the age of Snickers and Jolly Ranchers and 132 00:07:30,040 --> 00:07:31,480 Speaker 1: what have you, where you have kind of like the 133 00:07:31,920 --> 00:07:34,640 Speaker 1: crack cocaine of sugar available and you don't have to 134 00:07:34,680 --> 00:07:38,760 Speaker 1: turn to some of these more traditional ways of getting 135 00:07:38,760 --> 00:07:40,960 Speaker 1: your fix. I hadn't thought about it like that. But 136 00:07:41,000 --> 00:07:43,360 Speaker 1: of course, another aspect of liquorice will discuss in a 137 00:07:43,360 --> 00:07:46,200 Speaker 1: minute is that it's not just consumed for the taste, 138 00:07:46,240 --> 00:07:50,120 Speaker 1: people of long thought that it had some kind of medicinal, nutritional, 139 00:07:50,240 --> 00:07:54,240 Speaker 1: or therapeutic value. I think that's debatable. Um, but yeah, 140 00:07:54,440 --> 00:07:55,760 Speaker 1: we can get to that in a minute. So I 141 00:07:56,080 --> 00:07:59,480 Speaker 1: mentioned it's widely abhorred, but it's also widely beloved. There 142 00:07:59,480 --> 00:08:03,720 Speaker 1: are people who really really love black liquorice. So uh, 143 00:08:04,040 --> 00:08:06,760 Speaker 1: to get us into thinking about the possible effects of 144 00:08:06,800 --> 00:08:08,920 Speaker 1: black liquorice on the body, I want to start with 145 00:08:08,960 --> 00:08:11,320 Speaker 1: a gym from one of my favorite genres of old 146 00:08:11,360 --> 00:08:13,760 Speaker 1: news articles to dig up, which is the vault of 147 00:08:13,840 --> 00:08:18,320 Speaker 1: strange food recalls. So in Red Vines, you know that 148 00:08:18,400 --> 00:08:21,200 Speaker 1: candy company they make. Oh yes, yeah, they're kind of 149 00:08:21,240 --> 00:08:26,520 Speaker 1: the like the B movie of Twizzlers. That's my opinion 150 00:08:26,560 --> 00:08:28,800 Speaker 1: of them. Anyway. It's funny you mentioned movies because I 151 00:08:28,840 --> 00:08:31,280 Speaker 1: think of them exclusively as a candy people buy in 152 00:08:31,360 --> 00:08:34,160 Speaker 1: movie theaters. Oh yeah, that's where I would always encounter 153 00:08:34,240 --> 00:08:37,000 Speaker 1: because used to eating red Twizzlers at the movie. That 154 00:08:37,120 --> 00:08:39,400 Speaker 1: was my thing, Like that was that was the food 155 00:08:39,400 --> 00:08:41,760 Speaker 1: that I would have food quote unquote that I would 156 00:08:41,800 --> 00:08:44,360 Speaker 1: get and sometimes they wouldn't have Twizzlers, and you were 157 00:08:44,400 --> 00:08:48,000 Speaker 1: forced to have Red Vines and Yeah, in my experience, 158 00:08:48,040 --> 00:08:50,240 Speaker 1: if you go in expecting twizzlers and you get red vines, 159 00:08:50,280 --> 00:08:52,800 Speaker 1: it's just not going to be a satisfying experience. So 160 00:08:52,840 --> 00:08:55,800 Speaker 1: you sit down to see Highlander to the Quickening on 161 00:08:55,960 --> 00:08:59,000 Speaker 1: opening night, you've got your red vines, and you're a 162 00:08:59,000 --> 00:09:02,920 Speaker 1: little bit disappointed. Yeah, because it's just not quite what 163 00:09:02,960 --> 00:09:05,959 Speaker 1: you wanted. Yeah. Well, so in twelve, that company, they 164 00:09:06,000 --> 00:09:09,480 Speaker 1: issued a recall of black licorice quote twists. I guess 165 00:09:09,480 --> 00:09:14,160 Speaker 1: those are the twisty, the chords, the whips, because the 166 00:09:14,160 --> 00:09:17,400 Speaker 1: California Department of Public Health tested some bags and found 167 00:09:17,440 --> 00:09:22,080 Speaker 1: they contained elevated levels of drum roll lead. Oh that's 168 00:09:22,080 --> 00:09:24,559 Speaker 1: not supposed to be there, No, probably not so. Guidelines 169 00:09:24,600 --> 00:09:27,280 Speaker 1: at the time stated that children and pregnant women should 170 00:09:27,360 --> 00:09:30,280 Speaker 1: not be exposed to more than six micrograms of lead 171 00:09:30,320 --> 00:09:32,760 Speaker 1: a day. And then the bags they tested, a single 172 00:09:32,880 --> 00:09:37,800 Speaker 1: serving could contain more than thirteen micrograms have lead. Uh 173 00:09:37,840 --> 00:09:40,240 Speaker 1: And who eats just a single serving of anything? If 174 00:09:40,240 --> 00:09:42,320 Speaker 1: you're at the movie theater, you bought that bag, You're 175 00:09:42,360 --> 00:09:45,000 Speaker 1: gonna eat that whole bag. Uh. And if so, if 176 00:09:45,000 --> 00:09:48,280 Speaker 1: you're just hanging out pounding bag after bag of licorice twists, 177 00:09:48,320 --> 00:09:51,440 Speaker 1: that lead can really add up. Now. Fortunately, I think 178 00:09:51,440 --> 00:09:54,240 Speaker 1: this seemed to be like an incidental contaminant in some 179 00:09:54,360 --> 00:09:58,040 Speaker 1: bags of candy. Not a problem with licorice in principle, 180 00:09:58,240 --> 00:10:01,280 Speaker 1: but there are more fundamental issues with the liquorice that 181 00:10:01,360 --> 00:10:03,959 Speaker 1: might make you want to really think twice about potential 182 00:10:04,000 --> 00:10:07,199 Speaker 1: licorice binges. Will introduce you to the plant, and then 183 00:10:07,240 --> 00:10:09,720 Speaker 1: we'll come back to those things that might give you 184 00:10:09,720 --> 00:10:14,120 Speaker 1: second thoughts. Yeah, the liquors plant itself is rather interesting 185 00:10:14,200 --> 00:10:15,559 Speaker 1: and uh, you know, I want to come back for 186 00:10:15,600 --> 00:10:17,160 Speaker 1: a second to what we were talking earlier about the 187 00:10:17,400 --> 00:10:21,199 Speaker 1: flavor of liquorice. So certainly, as a child, I did 188 00:10:21,200 --> 00:10:25,760 Speaker 1: not care for the licorice flavor. As I have progressed, 189 00:10:25,920 --> 00:10:31,079 Speaker 1: hopefully progressed as an adult, I have acquired a certain 190 00:10:31,120 --> 00:10:36,960 Speaker 1: appreciation for liquorice flavoring in certain things if it's mild enough. 191 00:10:37,080 --> 00:10:40,480 Speaker 1: So there are there are a number of alcoholic beverages 192 00:10:40,640 --> 00:10:42,600 Speaker 1: that have a liquorice flavor, and it varies. There are 193 00:10:42,640 --> 00:10:48,560 Speaker 1: some traditional Middle Eastern licorice flavored drinks, uh, and I 194 00:10:48,600 --> 00:10:51,200 Speaker 1: find those usually to be a bit too strong in 195 00:10:51,240 --> 00:10:54,400 Speaker 1: that flavor for me. Likewise, there's the whole realm of 196 00:10:54,480 --> 00:10:58,280 Speaker 1: Jagermeister and whatnot, which is also something I never developed 197 00:10:58,320 --> 00:11:01,600 Speaker 1: a taste for. But in a well balanced cocktail, you 198 00:11:01,720 --> 00:11:07,560 Speaker 1: often have a liquorice flavor that, if it's balanced right works. Yeah. 199 00:11:07,600 --> 00:11:11,800 Speaker 1: It has this kind of um, nice, sweet but bitter 200 00:11:12,000 --> 00:11:15,800 Speaker 1: herbal note. Uh. I think it's usually considered like an 201 00:11:15,800 --> 00:11:19,640 Speaker 1: appartif like it sort of increases the appetite, maybe stimulates 202 00:11:19,679 --> 00:11:23,560 Speaker 1: the production of bile, or at least seems like it would. Yeah. Yeah, 203 00:11:23,679 --> 00:11:26,320 Speaker 1: and and again if it's it's if it's balanced properly, 204 00:11:26,440 --> 00:11:28,880 Speaker 1: I find that it works. So I turned to one 205 00:11:28,880 --> 00:11:32,839 Speaker 1: of my favorite cocktail books, Amy Stewart's The Drunken Botanist, 206 00:11:33,160 --> 00:11:36,560 Speaker 1: which is essentially a botany book. Uh. That's all about 207 00:11:36,840 --> 00:11:40,560 Speaker 1: alcoholic beverages and different spirits and beer and wine, et cetera. 208 00:11:40,720 --> 00:11:42,880 Speaker 1: It's kill Yeah, it's it's a it's a wonderful book. 209 00:11:43,559 --> 00:11:45,600 Speaker 1: I'm always pulling it off the shelf just to look up, 210 00:11:45,960 --> 00:11:48,560 Speaker 1: you know, whatever I happen to be consuming. But she 211 00:11:48,720 --> 00:11:51,560 Speaker 1: points out that there are a number of botanical sources 212 00:11:51,640 --> 00:11:55,440 Speaker 1: that produce just the liquorice flavor itself, and these include 213 00:11:55,720 --> 00:11:59,400 Speaker 1: a knees Star, a Knees and knees, high stop, finnel, 214 00:11:59,760 --> 00:12:03,240 Speaker 1: high sop, and sweet seally. So, there are many sources 215 00:12:03,280 --> 00:12:06,839 Speaker 1: for the flavor itself, many quite unrelated to each other. 216 00:12:06,880 --> 00:12:10,199 Speaker 1: But what they have in common is is this substance. 217 00:12:10,360 --> 00:12:14,120 Speaker 1: This actually this molecule, the liquorice flavor molecule that's known 218 00:12:14,200 --> 00:12:17,800 Speaker 1: as an ethol, and it's soluble in alcohol but not 219 00:12:17,920 --> 00:12:20,920 Speaker 1: in water, so and it separates from the alcohol when 220 00:12:20,920 --> 00:12:25,040 Speaker 1: water is added, causing a milky or green cloudiness which 221 00:12:25,040 --> 00:12:28,160 Speaker 1: you may have noticed if you've ever had a certain 222 00:12:28,320 --> 00:12:32,440 Speaker 1: alcoholic beverages that have a liquorice spirit in them. Oh, well, 223 00:12:32,480 --> 00:12:34,840 Speaker 1: you certainly see that in for example, absence, which we 224 00:12:34,880 --> 00:12:37,480 Speaker 1: talked about in the in the last episode where we 225 00:12:37,600 --> 00:12:39,880 Speaker 1: where we talked about Amy Stewart and the Drunken Botanist 226 00:12:40,760 --> 00:12:43,200 Speaker 1: Sails episode. Yeah, yeah, like you see that when it 227 00:12:43,240 --> 00:12:46,280 Speaker 1: emulsifies in the water, it creates this cloudy luche. Now, 228 00:12:46,280 --> 00:12:51,080 Speaker 1: the liquorice plant itself, Glyceriza glabra, is a small Southern 229 00:12:51,160 --> 00:12:54,120 Speaker 1: European perennial and it's actually a type of bean, according 230 00:12:54,160 --> 00:12:56,400 Speaker 1: to Stewart, that reaches two to three feet in height 231 00:12:56,480 --> 00:12:59,199 Speaker 1: and it doesn't form a vine. The pea family yea. 232 00:12:59,800 --> 00:13:02,960 Speaker 1: And the root is the part that we harvest, and 233 00:13:03,280 --> 00:13:06,880 Speaker 1: this is what contains the anthol as well as a 234 00:13:07,040 --> 00:13:11,800 Speaker 1: natural sweetener. And the natural sweetener is glycerizon or glycerizic acid. 235 00:13:12,400 --> 00:13:14,600 Speaker 1: So one of the funny things is I think that 236 00:13:14,720 --> 00:13:19,160 Speaker 1: the word licorice itself in English is a sort of 237 00:13:19,559 --> 00:13:22,920 Speaker 1: way down the flow of the of the language game 238 00:13:23,559 --> 00:13:28,640 Speaker 1: corruption of glyceriza. Right, licorice glyceriza? Would it? Would it 239 00:13:28,640 --> 00:13:30,679 Speaker 1: be more appropriate you think for the like just sort 240 00:13:30,679 --> 00:13:33,760 Speaker 1: of the taste sensation if we call it glcorice, you know, 241 00:13:34,040 --> 00:13:38,400 Speaker 1: like licorice sounds like just a little too sumptuous. But 242 00:13:38,480 --> 00:13:41,000 Speaker 1: if it was a go licorice, then that that that 243 00:13:41,000 --> 00:13:44,199 Speaker 1: that more sums up my response to a really hard 244 00:13:44,280 --> 00:13:48,120 Speaker 1: licorice flavor. Now that's an interesting psychology question. Why are 245 00:13:48,200 --> 00:13:53,040 Speaker 1: some consonant sounds less appetizing than others? The hard g 246 00:13:53,400 --> 00:13:57,719 Speaker 1: does not usually make my appetite leap up. Yeah, yeah, 247 00:13:58,000 --> 00:14:01,000 Speaker 1: unless it's sufficiently fringe sound, I think, But then it 248 00:14:01,120 --> 00:14:04,440 Speaker 1: then it maybe has wake up on the situation. Yeah. Well, anyway, 249 00:14:04,480 --> 00:14:07,480 Speaker 1: so so we're talking about the plant, uh, glyceriza, and 250 00:14:07,520 --> 00:14:10,640 Speaker 1: you said that the the licorice extract comes from the root. 251 00:14:10,720 --> 00:14:13,959 Speaker 1: That's true. You take the roots of this plant, not 252 00:14:14,000 --> 00:14:16,319 Speaker 1: the peas, not the beans in the pod, but the roots, 253 00:14:16,360 --> 00:14:19,080 Speaker 1: and you grind the roots up, you boil them, and 254 00:14:19,120 --> 00:14:22,440 Speaker 1: you produce this licorice juice, which you can then cram 255 00:14:22,520 --> 00:14:26,560 Speaker 1: into all kinds of recipes. Licorice, candy. Licorice is widely 256 00:14:26,640 --> 00:14:29,240 Speaker 1: used in tobacco products. Do you know that, Yeah, I 257 00:14:29,280 --> 00:14:31,520 Speaker 1: was really Stewart mentions this that it's used to sort 258 00:14:31,560 --> 00:14:35,360 Speaker 1: of mask the flavor of the of the cigarette or 259 00:14:35,360 --> 00:14:37,960 Speaker 1: what have you. Yeah, and this is uh, it's funny 260 00:14:38,000 --> 00:14:41,640 Speaker 1: that they would need to mask the flavor flavor country 261 00:14:41,920 --> 00:14:45,480 Speaker 1: mask at all. But then also licorice flavorings are used 262 00:14:45,520 --> 00:14:48,400 Speaker 1: to mask other flavors, for example, in medicines, to cover 263 00:14:48,480 --> 00:14:50,960 Speaker 1: the taste of the active compounds, which can often be 264 00:14:51,080 --> 00:14:56,120 Speaker 1: bitter otherwise unpleasant tasting. Um. And somebody out there, I'm 265 00:14:56,160 --> 00:15:00,600 Speaker 1: sure makes like artisanal licorice mayonnaise. There there her liquorice 266 00:15:00,640 --> 00:15:03,120 Speaker 1: products all over the place. For example, did you know 267 00:15:03,320 --> 00:15:06,680 Speaker 1: in in places in northern Europe, like in Finland, salty 268 00:15:06,760 --> 00:15:10,760 Speaker 1: liquorice is a thing. Well, it's hard for me to 269 00:15:10,920 --> 00:15:13,480 Speaker 1: imagine that, but I'm going to keep an open mind 270 00:15:13,520 --> 00:15:16,120 Speaker 1: and and say that I could I could see where 271 00:15:16,120 --> 00:15:18,640 Speaker 1: that could be good. Yeah, okay, So where does the 272 00:15:18,680 --> 00:15:21,440 Speaker 1: liquorice danger come in, assuming your liquorice has not been 273 00:15:21,440 --> 00:15:26,520 Speaker 1: contaminated with lead in A pair of doctors named James 274 00:15:26,640 --> 00:15:30,120 Speaker 1: Chamberlain and Igor A. Balnik published a case study in 275 00:15:30,160 --> 00:15:33,400 Speaker 1: the Western Journal of Medicine, and here's what went down 276 00:15:33,400 --> 00:15:36,880 Speaker 1: in their case. This previously healthy, sixty four year old 277 00:15:36,880 --> 00:15:40,040 Speaker 1: man shows up at a Salt Lake City, v A hospital. 278 00:15:40,440 --> 00:15:43,960 Speaker 1: He reports to them that he's had trouble breathing after exertion, 279 00:15:44,320 --> 00:15:47,040 Speaker 1: that he's got shortness of breath when lying down, and 280 00:15:47,040 --> 00:15:49,560 Speaker 1: he's got general fatigue. Now, if you are a medical 281 00:15:49,600 --> 00:15:51,760 Speaker 1: professional out there and you're listening to that, you might 282 00:15:51,800 --> 00:15:54,560 Speaker 1: be thinking, like, okay, there could be signs of congestive 283 00:15:54,600 --> 00:15:57,600 Speaker 1: heart failure. Right. Tests showed that he was suffering from 284 00:15:57,600 --> 00:16:00,960 Speaker 1: pulmonary edema. This is a condition when would collects in 285 00:16:01,000 --> 00:16:04,320 Speaker 1: your lungs making it hard to breathe, and usually the 286 00:16:04,320 --> 00:16:07,800 Speaker 1: reason this happens is congestive heart failure. But this man 287 00:16:07,880 --> 00:16:11,400 Speaker 1: had no real signs of having a history of heart problems, 288 00:16:11,840 --> 00:16:14,040 Speaker 1: and in the days leading up to the hospital visit, 289 00:16:14,120 --> 00:16:17,240 Speaker 1: the man didn't report any changes to his behavior or diet, 290 00:16:17,280 --> 00:16:21,040 Speaker 1: except one he'd been on a licorice bench. Over the 291 00:16:21,080 --> 00:16:24,120 Speaker 1: past three days, he had eaten by himself a total 292 00:16:24,160 --> 00:16:28,840 Speaker 1: of four packages of black licorice. Hershey, Twizzlers, this is 293 00:16:28,880 --> 00:16:32,200 Speaker 1: about one thousand, twenty grams or about two point two 294 00:16:32,240 --> 00:16:36,200 Speaker 1: four pounds of black licorice over three days. Well, you know, 295 00:16:36,280 --> 00:16:39,480 Speaker 1: I I can't relate to the black Twizzlers on this, 296 00:16:39,720 --> 00:16:43,720 Speaker 1: but uh, I can relate as far as red Twizzlers go. Uh. 297 00:16:43,840 --> 00:16:46,160 Speaker 1: I said that I don't really eat Twizzlers much anymore, 298 00:16:46,640 --> 00:16:50,520 Speaker 1: but occasionally I will give into the temptation. So you're lying. Yeah, 299 00:16:50,560 --> 00:16:53,400 Speaker 1: I guess I was a lying to myself really, because 300 00:16:53,440 --> 00:16:55,680 Speaker 1: there was a time in the past couple of years 301 00:16:55,760 --> 00:16:58,840 Speaker 1: where somebody brought a bunch of Twizzlers to the Dungeons 302 00:16:58,840 --> 00:17:02,000 Speaker 1: and Dragons game and I kind of forgot that. I 303 00:17:02,040 --> 00:17:05,359 Speaker 1: had a blood test the next day from my doctor's exam, 304 00:17:05,680 --> 00:17:09,320 Speaker 1: and I ended up flunking my glucose glucose test because 305 00:17:09,359 --> 00:17:11,840 Speaker 1: of all the Twizzlers I'd eaten the night before, and 306 00:17:11,880 --> 00:17:15,040 Speaker 1: I had to like retake it later on after a 307 00:17:15,200 --> 00:17:19,359 Speaker 1: you know, sane um consumption of sugar. Yeah, so I 308 00:17:19,400 --> 00:17:21,520 Speaker 1: feel him on the twizzler bench. That's what I'm saying. 309 00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,440 Speaker 1: Do you think he ate two point two four pounds? Uh? 310 00:17:24,720 --> 00:17:26,399 Speaker 1: You know, I I really don't want to do the 311 00:17:26,440 --> 00:17:28,520 Speaker 1: math on that because I'm afraid, but I might find 312 00:17:29,640 --> 00:17:32,560 Speaker 1: well anyway. So once they knew that he had eaten 313 00:17:32,600 --> 00:17:35,240 Speaker 1: all this liquorice, the doctors were able to say, oh, okay, 314 00:17:35,440 --> 00:17:39,480 Speaker 1: we think we can pinpoint the problem. It's the licorice overdose. 315 00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:41,920 Speaker 1: And so they treated him and they kept him in 316 00:17:41,960 --> 00:17:44,359 Speaker 1: the hospital for a couple of days, and his symptoms disappeared. 317 00:17:44,400 --> 00:17:47,360 Speaker 1: The pulmonaria demo went away. They did a new uh 318 00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:49,320 Speaker 1: chest X ray. You could see his lungs were all 319 00:17:49,400 --> 00:17:51,880 Speaker 1: cleared up, and he was fine. And he came back 320 00:17:51,880 --> 00:17:55,160 Speaker 1: several months later checked in, had had no more problems 321 00:17:55,160 --> 00:17:58,040 Speaker 1: of a similar nature. It appeared to just be the liquorice. 322 00:17:58,480 --> 00:18:00,560 Speaker 1: The authors of this case study were port that it's 323 00:18:00,680 --> 00:18:03,520 Speaker 1: rare for a liquorice binge to lead to fluid collecting 324 00:18:03,520 --> 00:18:05,199 Speaker 1: in the lungs, though they were able to find a 325 00:18:05,200 --> 00:18:07,760 Speaker 1: few other cases of it in the literature. Only one 326 00:18:07,840 --> 00:18:14,000 Speaker 1: other case was not associated with comorbid conditions, but excess 327 00:18:14,000 --> 00:18:16,880 Speaker 1: consumption of liquorice has been linked to negative health effects 328 00:18:16,880 --> 00:18:21,120 Speaker 1: such as heard a rhythmias and hypertension. So what's going 329 00:18:21,160 --> 00:18:24,840 Speaker 1: on here, Well, the explanation seems to be that when 330 00:18:24,880 --> 00:18:27,920 Speaker 1: a lot of black liquorice comes into the body, it 331 00:18:28,040 --> 00:18:32,480 Speaker 1: sort of sets off a chemical chain reaction starting in 332 00:18:32,480 --> 00:18:36,920 Speaker 1: your metabolism that makes a crucial nutrient leave the body. 333 00:18:37,040 --> 00:18:40,359 Speaker 1: So natural liquorice contains an ingredient as we mentioned before, 334 00:18:40,400 --> 00:18:45,400 Speaker 1: called glycerizon or glycerizic acid, and when it gets metabolized, 335 00:18:45,960 --> 00:18:49,800 Speaker 1: it eventually leads to the renal system, especially the kidneys, 336 00:18:50,119 --> 00:18:54,080 Speaker 1: purging potassium from the body. And one other side effect 337 00:18:54,119 --> 00:18:57,240 Speaker 1: is that it tends to lead to increased sodium retention 338 00:18:57,280 --> 00:19:01,800 Speaker 1: in the body, so your body retains more sodium urges potassium. 339 00:19:01,840 --> 00:19:05,600 Speaker 1: Medically that's not good. A potassium deficiency in the blood 340 00:19:05,640 --> 00:19:09,439 Speaker 1: is known as hypokalemia, and hypokalemia is bad news for 341 00:19:09,480 --> 00:19:13,199 Speaker 1: your muscles, including your heart, because the simple version is 342 00:19:13,240 --> 00:19:17,880 Speaker 1: that your body uses potassium to regulate the electrochemical communication 343 00:19:18,280 --> 00:19:22,080 Speaker 1: between nerves and muscle cells. Potassium is just very important 344 00:19:22,119 --> 00:19:24,920 Speaker 1: for electro light balance in your body, and if your 345 00:19:24,920 --> 00:19:28,560 Speaker 1: electrolyte balance is off and you're not getting enough potassium. 346 00:19:28,640 --> 00:19:32,360 Speaker 1: Your cells can't communicate properly. So will a little bit 347 00:19:32,359 --> 00:19:34,600 Speaker 1: of licorice hurt me? You're probably one if you're one 348 00:19:34,640 --> 00:19:36,960 Speaker 1: of those people who does not believe in the wax 349 00:19:36,960 --> 00:19:39,879 Speaker 1: of belile but believes in the you know, the black 350 00:19:39,920 --> 00:19:43,119 Speaker 1: manner from heaven. Uh, will a little bit hurt you? 351 00:19:43,400 --> 00:19:46,119 Speaker 1: I'd say no, probably not, but you should be careful. 352 00:19:46,160 --> 00:19:49,600 Speaker 1: You shouldn't overdo it. Uh. United States FDA has said 353 00:19:49,800 --> 00:19:52,760 Speaker 1: if you consume more than forty grams of licoricia day 354 00:19:52,800 --> 00:19:55,040 Speaker 1: for two weeks or more, you can start to get 355 00:19:55,119 --> 00:19:58,880 Speaker 1: dangerously low levels of potassium. And forty grams that that's 356 00:19:58,880 --> 00:20:02,840 Speaker 1: not a whole lot. Yeah, certainly, certainly that you wouldn't 357 00:20:02,840 --> 00:20:04,840 Speaker 1: want to binge on it. That that that's that's the 358 00:20:05,040 --> 00:20:07,080 Speaker 1: I would say, go light on the liquorice would be 359 00:20:07,160 --> 00:20:10,320 Speaker 1: the take home from this. Yeah, don't don't binge on it, 360 00:20:10,400 --> 00:20:12,719 Speaker 1: and probably probably shouldn't eat it every day, even if 361 00:20:12,760 --> 00:20:14,320 Speaker 1: you only eat a little. Right, there's a whole world 362 00:20:14,320 --> 00:20:16,560 Speaker 1: of candies out there. You don't have to just go 363 00:20:16,640 --> 00:20:19,440 Speaker 1: all in on the liquorice. But there is some good news. 364 00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:22,000 Speaker 1: So if you are a liquorice fan. Not all candies 365 00:20:22,119 --> 00:20:27,320 Speaker 1: or products labeled licorice actually contain natural liquorice extract the 366 00:20:27,560 --> 00:20:30,240 Speaker 1: stuff that poses the risk. Right. We we mentioned all 367 00:20:30,240 --> 00:20:33,800 Speaker 1: the various other places you can get the licorice flavoring. Yeah, 368 00:20:33,840 --> 00:20:36,200 Speaker 1: so a lot of things that are labeled licorice or 369 00:20:36,240 --> 00:20:39,760 Speaker 1: actually just products flavored with something like annus oil or 370 00:20:39,800 --> 00:20:43,719 Speaker 1: other things that contain these similar herbal compounds that taste 371 00:20:43,720 --> 00:20:46,280 Speaker 1: like liquorice, but they don't pose the same risk from 372 00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:50,439 Speaker 1: the glycerizic acid. So you can research your products on 373 00:20:50,480 --> 00:20:52,480 Speaker 1: your own, try to find out what goes in them, 374 00:20:52,480 --> 00:20:55,800 Speaker 1: and make your decisions accordingly. Now, on one hand, we 375 00:20:55,920 --> 00:20:58,000 Speaker 1: don't like to be alarmist. We don't like to say, 376 00:20:58,040 --> 00:21:00,479 Speaker 1: you know, oh this food scary, it's to hurt you. 377 00:21:00,520 --> 00:21:03,720 Speaker 1: But some scientists recently have taken a fairly harsh view 378 00:21:04,400 --> 00:21:08,480 Speaker 1: of whether people should really be consuming natural liquorice extract. 379 00:21:09,119 --> 00:21:13,160 Speaker 1: One study I found by Hesham r. Omar at All, 380 00:21:13,280 --> 00:21:19,800 Speaker 1: published in Therapeutic Advances and into Chronology and Metabolism, had 381 00:21:19,640 --> 00:21:23,199 Speaker 1: made the following statements quote. Despite its apparent use in 382 00:21:23,240 --> 00:21:27,080 Speaker 1: a few clinical scenarios, the daily consumption of liquorice is 383 00:21:27,280 --> 00:21:31,439 Speaker 1: never justified because its benefits are minor compared to the 384 00:21:31,480 --> 00:21:35,840 Speaker 1: adverse outcomes of chronic consumption. And then they also say, quote, 385 00:21:35,920 --> 00:21:40,359 Speaker 1: increased awareness among the public is required through TV commercials, newspapers, 386 00:21:40,400 --> 00:21:44,639 Speaker 1: internet sites, magazines, and product labels regarding the upper limit 387 00:21:44,680 --> 00:21:48,679 Speaker 1: of ingestion and health hazards associated with excess intake. So 388 00:21:49,000 --> 00:21:52,080 Speaker 1: run out onto the streets and and just yell at 389 00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:54,679 Speaker 1: people like it's the like it's the closing moments of 390 00:21:54,720 --> 00:21:57,840 Speaker 1: invasion of the body snatches and and say don't eat 391 00:21:57,840 --> 00:21:59,840 Speaker 1: the liquorice. I mean, if you wanted to start a 392 00:22:00,000 --> 00:22:02,040 Speaker 1: initious rumor to get the job done, you could just 393 00:22:02,080 --> 00:22:06,440 Speaker 1: suggest that licorice is people. Now. I like what you've 394 00:22:06,440 --> 00:22:09,480 Speaker 1: mentioned earlier about the like Annis and star Annis being 395 00:22:09,640 --> 00:22:14,320 Speaker 1: an ingredient some of the flavoring, because ultimately that sounds classier, right, 396 00:22:14,359 --> 00:22:17,840 Speaker 1: I mean, that's that has more of a culinary feel 397 00:22:17,880 --> 00:22:20,280 Speaker 1: to it. I feel like if someone were to say, hey, 398 00:22:20,320 --> 00:22:21,800 Speaker 1: do you want some liquorice candy or would you like 399 00:22:21,880 --> 00:22:26,320 Speaker 1: some star Annis oil infused uh, you know, hard candy, 400 00:22:26,359 --> 00:22:27,679 Speaker 1: I would say, oh, well, give me some of that, 401 00:22:28,280 --> 00:22:30,160 Speaker 1: give me some of some of the second option, because 402 00:22:30,160 --> 00:22:33,480 Speaker 1: that sounds like a nice craft candy. I totally see 403 00:22:33,480 --> 00:22:35,720 Speaker 1: what you're saying there. That makes me think that partially 404 00:22:35,760 --> 00:22:39,200 Speaker 1: my aversion to liquorice candy is is like a learned 405 00:22:39,400 --> 00:22:42,199 Speaker 1: thing or something like that, because if somebody says, do 406 00:22:42,240 --> 00:22:44,240 Speaker 1: you want some black liquorice, I'm like, get out of 407 00:22:44,280 --> 00:22:46,880 Speaker 1: my house. If somebody's like, would you like some Star 408 00:22:46,960 --> 00:22:50,640 Speaker 1: and East candy, I'd be like, oh yeah, I'll try it. Yeah, 409 00:22:50,960 --> 00:22:52,720 Speaker 1: all right, now, I have just a couple more things 410 00:22:52,720 --> 00:22:55,879 Speaker 1: about liquorice to throw in here. So back in two 411 00:22:55,880 --> 00:23:00,280 Speaker 1: thousand nine, chemist in Taiwan found that an ingreen in 412 00:23:00,400 --> 00:23:05,359 Speaker 1: liquorice blocked the absorption of cyclosporing, a drug that helps 413 00:23:05,400 --> 00:23:10,919 Speaker 1: prevent organ rejection and transplant patients. Huh, So this is 414 00:23:11,160 --> 00:23:13,520 Speaker 1: this This was rather interesting, but I should I should 415 00:23:14,080 --> 00:23:18,440 Speaker 1: definitely drive home that the prospect of liquorice complicating organ transplants, 416 00:23:18,960 --> 00:23:20,960 Speaker 1: that was a new idea at the time, but it 417 00:23:21,000 --> 00:23:24,280 Speaker 1: was hardly the only substance that was known to um 418 00:23:24,440 --> 00:23:28,960 Speaker 1: that to complicate transplants. So a lot of things that right, 419 00:23:29,000 --> 00:23:33,600 Speaker 1: including things like onions, ginger, ginko, there's just a name 420 00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:38,920 Speaker 1: a few, so onions. That's that's that's what I read yeah, 421 00:23:38,960 --> 00:23:40,639 Speaker 1: I mean people, I would love to hear from anyone 422 00:23:40,640 --> 00:23:43,560 Speaker 1: out there who has received an oregan transplanters had to 423 00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:47,679 Speaker 1: sort of alter their their diet or lifestyle to accommodate that. 424 00:23:48,240 --> 00:23:49,960 Speaker 1: But but, but yeah, I don't want to make it 425 00:23:49,960 --> 00:23:53,320 Speaker 1: sound like liquorice is the only thing that can unbalance 426 00:23:53,400 --> 00:23:57,000 Speaker 1: this scenario. On the upside, I also ran across a 427 00:23:57,119 --> 00:23:59,879 Speaker 1: two thousand ten study that was published in the journal 428 00:24:00,640 --> 00:24:05,679 Speaker 1: Lucocyte Biology, and they reported the liquorice route might just 429 00:24:05,760 --> 00:24:08,439 Speaker 1: ward off a rare and deadly infection that can stem 430 00:24:08,440 --> 00:24:11,399 Speaker 1: from severe burns. So, in this study, scientists from the 431 00:24:11,440 --> 00:24:16,000 Speaker 1: University of Texas Medical Branch and Shiner's Hospital found that 432 00:24:16,000 --> 00:24:19,399 Speaker 1: that gluci rise and boosted the damaged skins production of 433 00:24:19,480 --> 00:24:25,560 Speaker 1: proteins UH called anti microbial peptides. So you know, there's 434 00:24:25,560 --> 00:24:27,359 Speaker 1: so that's one week. There's some points we can put 435 00:24:27,400 --> 00:24:32,520 Speaker 1: up on the scoreboard for liquorice in safeguarding our health. Alright, 436 00:24:32,560 --> 00:24:35,000 Speaker 1: So we don't want to scare you off liquorice entirely, 437 00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:38,960 Speaker 1: but make your liquorice decisions intelligently. Be an intelligent consumer 438 00:24:39,000 --> 00:24:41,639 Speaker 1: of the wax of Belisle. Alright, are we done? Talking 439 00:24:41,680 --> 00:24:44,840 Speaker 1: about candy. Should we go onto something more interesting? Yeah, 440 00:24:44,880 --> 00:24:46,960 Speaker 1: we should have something. We could need some protein. That's 441 00:24:46,960 --> 00:24:49,040 Speaker 1: what we need, Joe. Okay, let's take a quick break 442 00:24:49,080 --> 00:24:51,240 Speaker 1: and when we come back we will discuss the meat 443 00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:57,240 Speaker 1: of the amphibioid. Than all right, we're back. So, Joe, 444 00:24:57,280 --> 00:25:00,960 Speaker 1: have you ever eaten frog legs? Honestly, I'm kind of 445 00:25:01,000 --> 00:25:02,679 Speaker 1: embarrassed to say this because I like to think of 446 00:25:02,720 --> 00:25:05,280 Speaker 1: myself as an adventurous eater. But no, I don't think 447 00:25:05,320 --> 00:25:08,119 Speaker 1: I've had the frog legs. Well, I have. I have 448 00:25:08,160 --> 00:25:11,400 Speaker 1: not had them recently, but I have had fried frog 449 00:25:11,480 --> 00:25:14,280 Speaker 1: legs in the past. What do you think I remember 450 00:25:14,440 --> 00:25:16,000 Speaker 1: liking them, But it was kind of at at an 451 00:25:16,040 --> 00:25:18,760 Speaker 1: age where I liked anything that was fried up in 452 00:25:18,800 --> 00:25:21,639 Speaker 1: a skullet. So I don't I don't know. I imagine, 453 00:25:22,320 --> 00:25:25,359 Speaker 1: you know, everything fried is essentially good. It hits several 454 00:25:25,440 --> 00:25:29,000 Speaker 1: key areas for for our taste, you know. So I 455 00:25:28,880 --> 00:25:31,960 Speaker 1: imagine there's some really delicious frog legs out there, but 456 00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:34,960 Speaker 1: I have not necessarily tried them. Now, I hate to 457 00:25:35,119 --> 00:25:38,480 Speaker 1: invoke the cliche, but did it taste like you know what, 458 00:25:38,800 --> 00:25:42,120 Speaker 1: like like chicken? Right? Yeah? I guess I mean every 459 00:25:42,359 --> 00:25:44,439 Speaker 1: that I mean it's it's the cliche, but I have 460 00:25:44,480 --> 00:25:48,119 Speaker 1: found that a lot of non non chicken, non beef, 461 00:25:48,160 --> 00:25:50,639 Speaker 1: non pork meats do kind of taste like chicken. I 462 00:25:50,640 --> 00:25:53,679 Speaker 1: guess it's like our easiest analog for uh, you know, 463 00:25:53,840 --> 00:25:56,679 Speaker 1: variety of amphibians and reptiles. Like I felt like that 464 00:25:56,720 --> 00:25:59,200 Speaker 1: was the same way when I had what alligator wants 465 00:25:59,280 --> 00:26:02,600 Speaker 1: in New or Lands. But but it's a similar scenario 466 00:26:02,720 --> 00:26:05,080 Speaker 1: to where first of all, if it's fried up, that 467 00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:07,120 Speaker 1: kind of maskle out of the flavor, and if you're 468 00:26:07,119 --> 00:26:09,639 Speaker 1: primed to think it tastes like chicken, then are we 469 00:26:09,680 --> 00:26:13,120 Speaker 1: just looking for those connections in the flavor profile. Maybe 470 00:26:13,119 --> 00:26:14,960 Speaker 1: it's not that it tastes much like chicken, but we 471 00:26:15,040 --> 00:26:17,960 Speaker 1: just don't have that many other meats to compare it to. Yeah, 472 00:26:17,960 --> 00:26:22,120 Speaker 1: it could be. So this next selection does take us 473 00:26:22,280 --> 00:26:24,760 Speaker 1: to the world of frogs, and specifically, it takes us 474 00:26:24,800 --> 00:26:28,800 Speaker 1: to the African nation of uh Namibia, not to be 475 00:26:28,840 --> 00:26:33,000 Speaker 1: confused with the nonexistent nation of Nambia, which has been 476 00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:36,440 Speaker 1: in the news recently. Uh you'll find it. You'll find 477 00:26:36,440 --> 00:26:38,760 Speaker 1: it on the northwest border of South Africa on the 478 00:26:38,800 --> 00:26:41,480 Speaker 1: Atlantic Ocean. It's home to about two point one million people. 479 00:26:41,680 --> 00:26:44,520 Speaker 1: They're five major ethnic groups, and the dominant religion is 480 00:26:44,560 --> 00:26:47,040 Speaker 1: Christian and it's uh and uh. It owes this to 481 00:26:47,119 --> 00:26:51,360 Speaker 1: its colonial history. Now as far as cuisine goes uh 482 00:26:51,560 --> 00:26:56,160 Speaker 1: millet and maze or staple foods accompanied by indigenous vegetables, bee, 483 00:26:56,240 --> 00:26:59,760 Speaker 1: flam mutton, fish. But like many cultures around the world, 484 00:26:59,800 --> 00:27:02,680 Speaker 1: they also enjoy a little frog from time to time. 485 00:27:03,880 --> 00:27:05,960 Speaker 1: Which I was looking into this and I found it 486 00:27:06,480 --> 00:27:09,040 Speaker 1: a little surprising. I didn't know much about like global 487 00:27:09,359 --> 00:27:12,760 Speaker 1: food customs with frogs. Uh a lot of people. I 488 00:27:12,760 --> 00:27:15,800 Speaker 1: think you think of French cuisine, you may think of 489 00:27:15,880 --> 00:27:20,280 Speaker 1: Cantonese cuisine. These are both areas where frogs are often 490 00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:23,840 Speaker 1: considered delicacies, but you encounter them in just all over 491 00:27:23,880 --> 00:27:26,639 Speaker 1: the world. Like people have long realized that when there 492 00:27:26,640 --> 00:27:29,000 Speaker 1: are frogs around, there's a good chance you can eat 493 00:27:29,000 --> 00:27:33,439 Speaker 1: their legs, their meaty legs. I wonder to what extent 494 00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:38,760 Speaker 1: the regions cultivation of frog as a food item is 495 00:27:38,840 --> 00:27:42,600 Speaker 1: correlated with the extent to which frogs are an invasive 496 00:27:42,680 --> 00:27:45,520 Speaker 1: pest in the area and not invasive just a past. Yeah, 497 00:27:45,600 --> 00:27:48,560 Speaker 1: well we'll see that in this example. I also couldn't help, 498 00:27:48,560 --> 00:27:52,640 Speaker 1: but wonder do we see less frog legs being consumed, 499 00:27:52,800 --> 00:27:55,680 Speaker 1: maybe in the US based on the Muppet movie, because 500 00:27:55,720 --> 00:27:59,520 Speaker 1: we had Doc Hoppers French fried frog legs restaurant, and there, 501 00:27:59,560 --> 00:28:03,640 Speaker 1: of course, uh trying to kill kermit. Yeah, or and 502 00:28:03,760 --> 00:28:07,120 Speaker 1: or make himself out his species. It's an unspeakable crime. Yeah, 503 00:28:07,119 --> 00:28:11,760 Speaker 1: it is. You can't eat sentient frogs that sing, indeed, 504 00:28:11,760 --> 00:28:15,960 Speaker 1: not with pipes like that. Now, in Namibia, the giant 505 00:28:16,119 --> 00:28:20,840 Speaker 1: African bullfrog is the Amphibian delicacy of choice, Pixa cephalus 506 00:28:20,920 --> 00:28:25,400 Speaker 1: ad spursus adspursus, a k A giant pixie frog. Yeah. 507 00:28:25,680 --> 00:28:29,840 Speaker 1: It's also known locally as ifuma or in the plural 508 00:28:30,240 --> 00:28:35,240 Speaker 1: oma fuma. And what makes it interesting is that Namibian 509 00:28:35,280 --> 00:28:37,960 Speaker 1: traditions call for more of the frog to be eaten 510 00:28:38,360 --> 00:28:41,120 Speaker 1: than is common in a lot of other cultures. So 511 00:28:41,280 --> 00:28:43,480 Speaker 1: not just the legs, right, it's more of a it's 512 00:28:43,520 --> 00:28:46,160 Speaker 1: more in keeping with how other cultures would eat. And 513 00:28:46,320 --> 00:28:49,960 Speaker 1: you know the American culture too would eat a fish 514 00:28:50,160 --> 00:28:52,840 Speaker 1: or chicken. You know, you would essentially gut the creature 515 00:28:53,320 --> 00:28:57,200 Speaker 1: and then use the remnants cook that up. So I 516 00:28:57,280 --> 00:29:02,200 Speaker 1: was reading from a book for this Indigenous Knowledge of Namibia, 517 00:29:02,560 --> 00:29:06,880 Speaker 1: edited by Casila see shin Simbu. And it's not just 518 00:29:07,480 --> 00:29:10,440 Speaker 1: Namibians that that enjoy this frog. The frog is widely 519 00:29:10,480 --> 00:29:15,680 Speaker 1: distributed throughout southern and eastern Africa, and the Nassinga people 520 00:29:15,800 --> 00:29:19,080 Speaker 1: of eastern Zambia they consume it whole as well, and 521 00:29:19,160 --> 00:29:25,200 Speaker 1: they call it quote kanyama kalaisi fupa the animal without bones. 522 00:29:26,240 --> 00:29:29,440 Speaker 1: Now they do have bones, but one of the apparently 523 00:29:29,480 --> 00:29:31,760 Speaker 1: interesting things about cooked frog meat is that it separates 524 00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:35,960 Speaker 1: very easily from the bones. So these are these frogs, 525 00:29:36,040 --> 00:29:39,000 Speaker 1: the giant African bullfrog. They're plentiful in the rainy season, 526 00:29:39,600 --> 00:29:41,719 Speaker 1: so they're just everywhere that it kind of gets into 527 00:29:41,760 --> 00:29:44,200 Speaker 1: that past area. It's like, there are frogs all over 528 00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:46,760 Speaker 1: the place. Should we not try and eat them? It 529 00:29:46,800 --> 00:29:51,520 Speaker 1: would seem to be the natural human inclination at least, right. Yeah, 530 00:29:51,600 --> 00:29:54,000 Speaker 1: And the thing is that they're they're relatively easy to 531 00:29:54,040 --> 00:29:56,400 Speaker 1: catch and can catch them by hand. Often they're caught 532 00:29:56,480 --> 00:29:59,680 Speaker 1: by children. They can inflict a nasty bite if you're 533 00:29:59,720 --> 00:30:02,080 Speaker 1: not careful. And I've read that this is the only 534 00:30:02,160 --> 00:30:05,560 Speaker 1: example of an amphibian that can cause uh, this is 535 00:30:05,600 --> 00:30:07,560 Speaker 1: how it was phrased in this paper. Is looking at 536 00:30:07,800 --> 00:30:11,560 Speaker 1: actual mechanical trauma. So Uh, the other bite can be 537 00:30:11,560 --> 00:30:13,120 Speaker 1: a little bit nasty if you, you know, you don't 538 00:30:13,160 --> 00:30:15,880 Speaker 1: know how to to to catch one. I've never thought 539 00:30:15,880 --> 00:30:18,160 Speaker 1: about that. Are there no other frogs that can really 540 00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:21,000 Speaker 1: bite you good? Yeah? I was trying to think about. 541 00:30:21,040 --> 00:30:24,280 Speaker 1: I mean, I grew up in in rural Tennessee, and 542 00:30:24,600 --> 00:30:26,600 Speaker 1: we were always catching frogs and stuff, and I don't 543 00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:29,600 Speaker 1: remember ever being bit by one. So the only mechanical 544 00:30:29,640 --> 00:30:32,360 Speaker 1: attack I can think of I've ever witnessed a frog 545 00:30:33,000 --> 00:30:36,320 Speaker 1: inflicting is pooping on you, which they do quite a lot. Yeah, 546 00:30:36,480 --> 00:30:38,520 Speaker 1: I guess that's just it's more of like a chemical 547 00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:42,840 Speaker 1: base attack though, right. Yeah, generally the frogs defenses are 548 00:30:42,960 --> 00:30:46,840 Speaker 1: running away or being gross uh, or or of course 549 00:30:46,880 --> 00:30:52,480 Speaker 1: having actual toxins. But in terms of like actually causing 550 00:30:52,520 --> 00:30:54,840 Speaker 1: a physically painful bite, yeah, this may be the only 551 00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:58,040 Speaker 1: only example. So what they do is they catch the frogs. 552 00:30:58,080 --> 00:31:00,200 Speaker 1: They you know, they corral them, and when it is 553 00:31:00,240 --> 00:31:02,840 Speaker 1: time to cook them, they clean them. They gut them. 554 00:31:02,880 --> 00:31:05,520 Speaker 1: They removed the viscera as well as the tongue, which 555 00:31:05,600 --> 00:31:08,960 Speaker 1: is especially frowned upon, the upper jaw, and the palate, 556 00:31:09,360 --> 00:31:12,880 Speaker 1: all of which is considered inedible. The fat is either 557 00:31:13,080 --> 00:31:15,880 Speaker 1: left in or it's removed to cook separately, depending on 558 00:31:15,960 --> 00:31:19,480 Speaker 1: the specific culinary tradition. Then the frogs are boiled in 559 00:31:19,520 --> 00:31:22,680 Speaker 1: the samily. You might boil other meats such as fish, uh, 560 00:31:22,760 --> 00:31:25,400 Speaker 1: though they sometimes throw in the medicinal plants. And it's 561 00:31:25,440 --> 00:31:29,040 Speaker 1: thought that this decreases the chances of osce quata keta, 562 00:31:29,120 --> 00:31:33,640 Speaker 1: which I've also seen written as osce uh catacatta. And 563 00:31:34,000 --> 00:31:37,600 Speaker 1: this is what happens to you, this is what can 564 00:31:37,680 --> 00:31:40,600 Speaker 1: happen to your body if you eat the frogs too early. 565 00:31:41,480 --> 00:31:43,920 Speaker 1: So it was also it's also worth knowing there was 566 00:31:43,960 --> 00:31:46,720 Speaker 1: a long standing tradition not to spice the frogs or 567 00:31:46,840 --> 00:31:50,880 Speaker 1: to fry them, because it would make them look unappealing. Uh. 568 00:31:50,920 --> 00:31:53,400 Speaker 1: They seem to prefer the frogs to look as much 569 00:31:53,480 --> 00:31:57,120 Speaker 1: like a frog as possible, not sliced up, not spiced, 570 00:31:57,200 --> 00:32:00,200 Speaker 1: and not fried. I found that interesting. Well, I think 571 00:32:00,240 --> 00:32:05,480 Speaker 1: that is an interesting idea in uh, in culinary traditions 572 00:32:05,520 --> 00:32:07,120 Speaker 1: around the world. I mean, you see that as a 573 00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,520 Speaker 1: major division in the way American food is served today. 574 00:32:10,760 --> 00:32:14,000 Speaker 1: There's sort of like the do you want to have 575 00:32:14,160 --> 00:32:17,280 Speaker 1: the food completely d natured and appear as a product 576 00:32:17,360 --> 00:32:20,280 Speaker 1: where you can't recognize the animal or the plant it 577 00:32:20,400 --> 00:32:22,360 Speaker 1: came from, or do you want to sort of like 578 00:32:22,720 --> 00:32:25,959 Speaker 1: see it as close to as it would look when 579 00:32:26,040 --> 00:32:29,000 Speaker 1: it was alive as possible. Yeah, I think shrimp or 580 00:32:29,040 --> 00:32:30,880 Speaker 1: a fine example of this. I was thinking about this 581 00:32:30,960 --> 00:32:33,719 Speaker 1: the other night because I was out with my family 582 00:32:33,840 --> 00:32:36,240 Speaker 1: and uh, we ordered a shrimp dish and the shrimp 583 00:32:36,320 --> 00:32:40,600 Speaker 1: came out with their heads on and everything, which which 584 00:32:40,880 --> 00:32:42,760 Speaker 1: it kind of has two different messages. Like if you 585 00:32:43,120 --> 00:32:45,520 Speaker 1: don't want to think of the shrimp as an animal, 586 00:32:46,000 --> 00:32:48,240 Speaker 1: then I can see where that could be unpleasant to 587 00:32:48,280 --> 00:32:51,080 Speaker 1: gaze upon. But if you want to think of the 588 00:32:51,160 --> 00:32:53,719 Speaker 1: shrimp as not only an animal, but a fresh animal 589 00:32:54,160 --> 00:32:56,120 Speaker 1: that you were getting pretty you know, pretty early in 590 00:32:56,240 --> 00:33:00,080 Speaker 1: the supply chain, then the head can be away to 591 00:33:01,040 --> 00:33:03,280 Speaker 1: to be sure of that. You know, you feel more 592 00:33:03,360 --> 00:33:05,720 Speaker 1: like this is fresh shrimp if it still has legs 593 00:33:05,840 --> 00:33:08,120 Speaker 1: and a head and its shell, as opposed to just 594 00:33:08,240 --> 00:33:12,600 Speaker 1: kind of like a pink comma that you have that 595 00:33:12,720 --> 00:33:15,840 Speaker 1: you've you know, bought on a massive platter at a 596 00:33:15,840 --> 00:33:17,560 Speaker 1: grocery store. I mean, I think I've said this on 597 00:33:17,640 --> 00:33:19,840 Speaker 1: the show before, but I often think one of the 598 00:33:20,080 --> 00:33:24,880 Speaker 1: appeals of breaded fried foods is not just the taste 599 00:33:24,920 --> 00:33:27,719 Speaker 1: that it's you know, oily and crunchy and texturally pleasing 600 00:33:27,800 --> 00:33:31,480 Speaker 1: and all that, but that, especially to children, it sort 601 00:33:31,520 --> 00:33:34,240 Speaker 1: of masks the nature of the animal that the food 602 00:33:34,360 --> 00:33:37,760 Speaker 1: comes from. And so when you have breaded fried food products, 603 00:33:37,960 --> 00:33:42,920 Speaker 1: it has it somehow tames what you're eating. Does that 604 00:33:43,040 --> 00:33:45,960 Speaker 1: make sense? No? No, I agree. I've been through through 605 00:33:45,960 --> 00:33:48,240 Speaker 1: a lot of this with my son because he he, 606 00:33:49,360 --> 00:33:51,360 Speaker 1: you know, pretty early on, decided that he did not 607 00:33:51,520 --> 00:33:56,400 Speaker 1: want to eat meats unless they were like shrimp, oysters, crabs. 608 00:33:57,640 --> 00:34:01,920 Speaker 1: He's essentially a pscytarian um and and he has absolutely 609 00:34:01,960 --> 00:34:04,960 Speaker 1: no problem eating like he'll look at a live crab 610 00:34:05,120 --> 00:34:06,560 Speaker 1: and talk about how much he wants to eat it, 611 00:34:07,080 --> 00:34:09,879 Speaker 1: you know, but that that he has, you know, thus 612 00:34:10,000 --> 00:34:13,880 Speaker 1: thus far, you know, refused to eat you know, poultry 613 00:34:14,640 --> 00:34:19,360 Speaker 1: um and certainly of cows and pigs, and we you 614 00:34:19,400 --> 00:34:21,120 Speaker 1: know try and we try and honor that as much 615 00:34:21,160 --> 00:34:25,680 Speaker 1: as possible. Uh, But in this particular case, I can't help. 616 00:34:25,719 --> 00:34:28,080 Speaker 1: But suspect I couldn't find any sources that really spoke 617 00:34:28,120 --> 00:34:32,160 Speaker 1: to this, but I wonder if they're their their insistence 618 00:34:32,280 --> 00:34:34,719 Speaker 1: on the frog looking like a frog has to do 619 00:34:35,440 --> 00:34:39,480 Speaker 1: with avoiding the the the sickness that can ensue if 620 00:34:39,520 --> 00:34:43,200 Speaker 1: you eat it when it's too young. Yes, uh so 621 00:34:43,560 --> 00:34:45,319 Speaker 1: let me go get into oce Ceta cat a little 622 00:34:45,320 --> 00:34:49,439 Speaker 1: bit um. What comes of eating juvenile frogs or eating 623 00:34:49,480 --> 00:34:52,440 Speaker 1: them too early in the season. The symptoms here are 624 00:34:52,480 --> 00:34:56,680 Speaker 1: a lot like skistosomiasis, which is caused by a parasitic 625 00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,719 Speaker 1: flat worm that's found in freshwater snails. So yeah, it's yeah, 626 00:35:00,920 --> 00:35:05,280 Speaker 1: not pleasant. The symptoms here are acute inflammation, pain while urinating, 627 00:35:05,360 --> 00:35:09,480 Speaker 1: bloody urine, and even temporary kidney failure. Yike? So why 628 00:35:09,600 --> 00:35:12,440 Speaker 1: why does the why does the young frog like? What 629 00:35:12,520 --> 00:35:14,520 Speaker 1: does the youngness of the frog have to do with this? 630 00:35:15,400 --> 00:35:18,160 Speaker 1: This seems to be a question that we don't have 631 00:35:18,239 --> 00:35:20,239 Speaker 1: a firm answer for yet, or at least I was 632 00:35:20,280 --> 00:35:22,000 Speaker 1: not able to find it. If anyone else out there 633 00:35:22,040 --> 00:35:24,200 Speaker 1: has a firm answer, I would love to hear it. 634 00:35:24,760 --> 00:35:27,600 Speaker 1: But basically, everyone knows that there are certain steps you 635 00:35:27,600 --> 00:35:29,840 Speaker 1: can take to avoid it. You don't harvest too early 636 00:35:30,520 --> 00:35:33,239 Speaker 1: when the frogs are not mature enough. Specifically, you don't 637 00:35:33,280 --> 00:35:37,239 Speaker 1: harvest visually immature frogs, frogs that haven't croaked yet, uh, 638 00:35:37,320 --> 00:35:41,080 Speaker 1: and or frogs before the third rainfall. And there's also 639 00:35:41,160 --> 00:35:44,000 Speaker 1: this added step of cooking them with medicinal ingredients, cooking 640 00:35:44,040 --> 00:35:49,720 Speaker 1: them with medicinal woods uh specifically to help mitigate the effects. 641 00:35:50,160 --> 00:35:53,000 Speaker 1: Is it known if that's actually effective. It doesn't seem 642 00:35:53,040 --> 00:35:56,440 Speaker 1: to be known. Likewise, so when when people uh end 643 00:35:56,560 --> 00:36:00,439 Speaker 1: up growing sick with the ocean kata kata, they'll seek 644 00:36:00,480 --> 00:36:04,600 Speaker 1: medical uh intervention, and it's also ensured whether this really 645 00:36:04,680 --> 00:36:06,120 Speaker 1: helps or it's just something that kind of has to 646 00:36:06,160 --> 00:36:08,920 Speaker 1: go away on its own. Uh. So again, there's not 647 00:36:08,960 --> 00:36:10,759 Speaker 1: a lot of information out there on the particulars here, 648 00:36:11,080 --> 00:36:15,719 Speaker 1: but there are a few theories as to what's going on. 649 00:36:16,280 --> 00:36:19,359 Speaker 1: When you look for answers on this, for starters, you'll 650 00:36:19,360 --> 00:36:21,920 Speaker 1: find a number of kind of just article list articles 651 00:36:21,960 --> 00:36:25,080 Speaker 1: out there. They just say that, Okay, it's it's a poison. Uh, 652 00:36:25,160 --> 00:36:28,160 Speaker 1: there's some sort of poison in the frog. Um. I'm 653 00:36:28,200 --> 00:36:30,360 Speaker 1: not sure if I'm is convinced about that, because clearly 654 00:36:30,440 --> 00:36:34,120 Speaker 1: it's it's it's only a problem with the immature frogs, right. 655 00:36:34,680 --> 00:36:37,160 Speaker 1: I've seen it speculated that it might be a bacterial 656 00:36:37,239 --> 00:36:41,479 Speaker 1: infection caused by the younger frogs. Uh. But I also 657 00:36:41,600 --> 00:36:43,399 Speaker 1: keep coming back to this idea that it's some sort 658 00:36:43,400 --> 00:36:45,439 Speaker 1: of a parasite like that seems to be the area 659 00:36:45,480 --> 00:36:50,560 Speaker 1: where the symptoms line up, uh closely. I've also read 660 00:36:50,600 --> 00:36:54,000 Speaker 1: a paper that said that cases of international travelers becoming 661 00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:58,080 Speaker 1: sick after consuming raw fish or quote unusual meats such 662 00:36:58,120 --> 00:37:00,680 Speaker 1: as bull frog meat, that they would likely result in 663 00:37:00,719 --> 00:37:05,719 Speaker 1: a diagnosis of nathosomiasis. This is an infection caused by 664 00:37:05,800 --> 00:37:10,160 Speaker 1: a nematode. Uh. And it's I mean, it seems like 665 00:37:10,200 --> 00:37:14,680 Speaker 1: a decent like broad clinical analysis, but I looked at 666 00:37:14,680 --> 00:37:17,160 Speaker 1: the symptoms. The symptoms don't really line up there. Uh, 667 00:37:17,320 --> 00:37:21,440 Speaker 1: it doesn't the whole you know, painful urination, bloody urine, 668 00:37:21,480 --> 00:37:24,279 Speaker 1: and uh, contemporary kidney failure. So the jury seems to 669 00:37:24,320 --> 00:37:28,560 Speaker 1: remain out on what exactly causes the illness. But to me, 670 00:37:28,760 --> 00:37:31,359 Speaker 1: this sounds like another one of these cases where if 671 00:37:31,520 --> 00:37:33,919 Speaker 1: you eat the food prepared the right way, the way 672 00:37:34,160 --> 00:37:36,719 Speaker 1: you know, the local people who developed this cuisine know 673 00:37:36,880 --> 00:37:39,839 Speaker 1: how to prepare it, you're probably gonna be all right. Yeah. Yeah, 674 00:37:39,920 --> 00:37:42,520 Speaker 1: it doesn't seem like I didn't find any articles that 675 00:37:42,560 --> 00:37:45,040 Speaker 1: were saying, oh, this is this is this is really 676 00:37:45,080 --> 00:37:46,920 Speaker 1: a danger. This is a public health risk, which is 677 00:37:46,920 --> 00:37:49,080 Speaker 1: also why you you're not seeing a lot of studies 678 00:37:49,200 --> 00:37:51,839 Speaker 1: into it. It's not like someone's in the field saying 679 00:37:51,880 --> 00:37:54,239 Speaker 1: we have to we have to help, you know, we 680 00:37:54,520 --> 00:37:57,240 Speaker 1: we've got to solve this problem, because no, like local 681 00:37:57,280 --> 00:38:01,279 Speaker 1: culinary traditions already have the problem solveolved if you if 682 00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,680 Speaker 1: you just know which frogs to eat and which ones 683 00:38:03,760 --> 00:38:06,680 Speaker 1: not to eat, and or how to properly prepare them. 684 00:38:06,920 --> 00:38:09,120 Speaker 1: But I think I wonder about the whole again, about 685 00:38:09,120 --> 00:38:11,279 Speaker 1: the whole. Don't fry them, don't chop them up. That 686 00:38:11,440 --> 00:38:13,719 Speaker 1: might be because if you were buying them from a 687 00:38:13,760 --> 00:38:16,640 Speaker 1: food seller, which apparently, uh, you know, these are prepared 688 00:38:16,680 --> 00:38:19,239 Speaker 1: in the home, but also sometimes they are sold. It 689 00:38:19,320 --> 00:38:20,920 Speaker 1: does make sense that you might want to be able 690 00:38:20,960 --> 00:38:23,200 Speaker 1: to look at the frog you're about to eat and 691 00:38:23,719 --> 00:38:26,840 Speaker 1: know for certain that it was not an immature specimen. 692 00:38:27,440 --> 00:38:29,279 Speaker 1: If that's going to make a difference in your health, 693 00:38:29,960 --> 00:38:31,840 Speaker 1: that makes sense to me. All Right, I'm going to 694 00:38:31,920 --> 00:38:33,960 Speaker 1: take us back to the plant world, Robert. Okay, Yeah, 695 00:38:33,960 --> 00:38:36,360 Speaker 1: we've had enough meat here for the time being. Or 696 00:38:36,400 --> 00:38:38,000 Speaker 1: if you want more meat, you could just say maybe 697 00:38:38,040 --> 00:38:41,439 Speaker 1: it's time for the chili course. Yes, okay, So time 698 00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:43,560 Speaker 1: to look at a case study in the British Medical 699 00:38:43,680 --> 00:38:48,080 Speaker 1: Journal from nineteen eighty by Normandy Noah at all that 700 00:38:48,239 --> 00:38:51,400 Speaker 1: reviews some curious cases of food poisoning with a with 701 00:38:51,520 --> 00:38:54,880 Speaker 1: a common factor between them. So the first case study 702 00:38:55,160 --> 00:38:58,279 Speaker 1: mentioned in this report sounds like about as bleak an 703 00:38:58,320 --> 00:39:01,200 Speaker 1: evening as you could ask for. In nineteen seventy six, 704 00:39:01,280 --> 00:39:04,520 Speaker 1: you got seventeen school boys, all about seventeen years old, 705 00:39:05,000 --> 00:39:08,640 Speaker 1: on holiday, chaper owned by three of their teachers, staying 706 00:39:08,680 --> 00:39:12,239 Speaker 1: in a hostel. It gets bleaker. They come back for 707 00:39:12,360 --> 00:39:15,480 Speaker 1: dinner one night and they're supposed to have some roast chicken. 708 00:39:15,600 --> 00:39:19,160 Speaker 1: But the chicken was quote found to be unfit to eat. 709 00:39:19,760 --> 00:39:23,000 Speaker 1: And that's all it says. I love the gaps in 710 00:39:23,080 --> 00:39:25,640 Speaker 1: these case reports. You could just leave up to the imagination. 711 00:39:26,200 --> 00:39:29,160 Speaker 1: Was it unfit to eat because it smelled like a dumpster? 712 00:39:29,680 --> 00:39:33,120 Speaker 1: Was it unfit to eat because it was cooked to leather? Yeah? 713 00:39:33,239 --> 00:39:36,720 Speaker 1: How how far into the meal did they get before 714 00:39:36,920 --> 00:39:40,959 Speaker 1: this was the pronouncement? Right? So anyway, chickens unfit to eat. 715 00:39:41,280 --> 00:39:44,560 Speaker 1: So instead they threw together an alternative supper made from 716 00:39:44,680 --> 00:39:47,560 Speaker 1: the following ingredients. They had a salad. They had hard 717 00:39:47,600 --> 00:39:52,960 Speaker 1: boiled eggs, cooked potatoes, and raw red kidney beans that 718 00:39:53,080 --> 00:39:55,800 Speaker 1: have been soaking in a saucepan since the night before 719 00:39:57,320 --> 00:40:01,640 Speaker 1: sounds pretty good. Huh. Well, I'm I'm I'm instantly suspicious 720 00:40:01,680 --> 00:40:05,319 Speaker 1: of that last dish. I'm curious, Robert, when you make 721 00:40:05,440 --> 00:40:08,040 Speaker 1: beans in your house, I assume you make beans. Oh yeah, yeah, 722 00:40:08,080 --> 00:40:11,120 Speaker 1: we we do. We do bean dishes from time to time. Yeah. 723 00:40:11,200 --> 00:40:14,279 Speaker 1: Do you generally do you just like go to a can, 724 00:40:14,520 --> 00:40:17,040 Speaker 1: open a can, or do you soak them from dried 725 00:40:17,160 --> 00:40:19,360 Speaker 1: and cook them from that? We we've done both. I 726 00:40:19,400 --> 00:40:21,480 Speaker 1: guess we tend to do. We tend to do the 727 00:40:21,600 --> 00:40:25,879 Speaker 1: can thing more often. But like in the past, people 728 00:40:25,920 --> 00:40:28,480 Speaker 1: have gifted us, like some really nice what is it 729 00:40:28,640 --> 00:40:32,000 Speaker 1: Rancho Gordo beans, dried beans, and you have to go 730 00:40:32,040 --> 00:40:34,200 Speaker 1: through the whole rigmarole of soaking them and so forth. 731 00:40:34,280 --> 00:40:37,360 Speaker 1: Yet I never did dried beans for a long time. Always, 732 00:40:37,400 --> 00:40:40,439 Speaker 1: whenever I was making beans, just used can beans. But hey, 733 00:40:40,960 --> 00:40:43,000 Speaker 1: cook's out there at home. If you're the same way, 734 00:40:43,040 --> 00:40:45,399 Speaker 1: if you if you haven't tried dried beans, I think 735 00:40:45,400 --> 00:40:48,239 Speaker 1: they're way better. I would agree, and I would say 736 00:40:48,320 --> 00:40:51,320 Speaker 1: that it's always you can tell a lot by particularly 737 00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:55,200 Speaker 1: like a Mexican restaurant. I feel, uh when you taste 738 00:40:55,320 --> 00:40:58,000 Speaker 1: their their beans, just like the black beans and the 739 00:40:58,040 --> 00:41:01,279 Speaker 1: refried beans. Like you can. You can taste the difference. Uh. Yeah, 740 00:41:01,360 --> 00:41:03,439 Speaker 1: if they're giving this much attention to the bean dish, 741 00:41:03,480 --> 00:41:05,719 Speaker 1: then it probably bothes well for the rest of the menu. Yeah. 742 00:41:05,760 --> 00:41:07,839 Speaker 1: And and good beans are good stuff. I think they 743 00:41:07,880 --> 00:41:09,520 Speaker 1: often get thought of as like part of you know, 744 00:41:09,600 --> 00:41:11,960 Speaker 1: something to sort of fill part of the plate. But 745 00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:14,759 Speaker 1: but good beans are really good and if you if 746 00:41:14,800 --> 00:41:16,640 Speaker 1: you give them the right kind of care, you soak them, 747 00:41:16,719 --> 00:41:19,160 Speaker 1: you cook them long enough, and they become nice and tender. 748 00:41:20,000 --> 00:41:22,640 Speaker 1: You know. Cooking from dried beans is the way to go. 749 00:41:23,160 --> 00:41:25,279 Speaker 1: But back to the case studies, so they did not 750 00:41:25,560 --> 00:41:29,480 Speaker 1: follow these instructions. They did go from dried beans, but 751 00:41:29,680 --> 00:41:33,200 Speaker 1: they didn't cook them. They just used these soaked uncooked beans. 752 00:41:33,640 --> 00:41:36,760 Speaker 1: The case study says these soaked uncooked beans were quote 753 00:41:36,840 --> 00:41:40,520 Speaker 1: not popular. Only nine of the seventeen boys ate a 754 00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:43,600 Speaker 1: significant quantity of them, and about an hour to an 755 00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,960 Speaker 1: hour and a half after eating, interstage left the evil 756 00:41:47,040 --> 00:41:51,319 Speaker 1: gods of nausea, vomiting, and diarrhea. Nine of the boys 757 00:41:51,400 --> 00:41:53,640 Speaker 1: got sick, two had to be admitted to the hospital, 758 00:41:53,719 --> 00:41:56,120 Speaker 1: and one had to be given an ivy infusion while 759 00:41:56,160 --> 00:41:59,719 Speaker 1: in the hospital. Fortunately, none of them died. They all recovered, 760 00:42:01,040 --> 00:42:04,200 Speaker 1: and the doctors studying what caused the outbreak, we're unable 761 00:42:04,239 --> 00:42:07,640 Speaker 1: to find evidence of microbial pathogens like E. Coli or 762 00:42:07,680 --> 00:42:11,560 Speaker 1: salmonella that you'd normally see if that was the cause. Uh. 763 00:42:11,760 --> 00:42:14,040 Speaker 1: And they weren't able to find evidence of any chemical 764 00:42:14,160 --> 00:42:17,919 Speaker 1: contaminants to explain what made the boys sick. And after 765 00:42:18,000 --> 00:42:21,080 Speaker 1: you combine this case with other observations, it starts to 766 00:42:21,200 --> 00:42:25,920 Speaker 1: become clear that something about undercooked kidney beans itself was 767 00:42:26,080 --> 00:42:30,240 Speaker 1: the problem, because other patients had been documented with similar histories. 768 00:42:30,840 --> 00:42:34,560 Speaker 1: Eating raw, soaked or lightly cooked red kidney beans has 769 00:42:34,680 --> 00:42:39,320 Speaker 1: this history of bringing forth the nausea, the vomiting, the 770 00:42:39,440 --> 00:42:42,560 Speaker 1: copious diarrhea. So what's going on there? Well, the kidney 771 00:42:42,600 --> 00:42:46,040 Speaker 1: bean is a variety of the common being Phaseolus vulgaris. 772 00:42:46,080 --> 00:42:48,920 Speaker 1: It's the same species as pinto beans, navy beans, and 773 00:42:49,000 --> 00:42:52,120 Speaker 1: so forth, just a different strain produced by the genetic 774 00:42:52,200 --> 00:42:56,080 Speaker 1: engineering of agriculture. Well, the uncooked beans the authors found 775 00:42:56,160 --> 00:43:01,480 Speaker 1: include toxins such as quote, hemaglutenants, trips and inhibitors, a 776 00:43:01,640 --> 00:43:06,160 Speaker 1: goiter erogen, and cyanogenic glycosides. And they write quote that 777 00:43:06,280 --> 00:43:08,760 Speaker 1: the hema gluten ins where the cause of the vomiting 778 00:43:08,800 --> 00:43:13,200 Speaker 1: and the diarrhea appears likely. So hema glutenin is a lectin. 779 00:43:13,320 --> 00:43:17,080 Speaker 1: Electin is a type of protein that binds to sugar molecules, 780 00:43:17,160 --> 00:43:19,759 Speaker 1: and you'll find them in beans. What effect does it 781 00:43:19,840 --> 00:43:22,839 Speaker 1: have on the body, Well, it's it's sort of there 782 00:43:22,840 --> 00:43:26,120 Speaker 1: in the name, right, hemaglutenin. It causes red blood cells, 783 00:43:26,200 --> 00:43:30,040 Speaker 1: the hematic cells to a glutinate to clump together, and 784 00:43:30,120 --> 00:43:32,759 Speaker 1: it's so it clumps to the red blood cells. Kind 785 00:43:32,800 --> 00:43:38,640 Speaker 1: of gross. Other substances also have hemaglutinin properties. For example, 786 00:43:38,760 --> 00:43:41,800 Speaker 1: one reason the influence of virus can be so effective 787 00:43:42,280 --> 00:43:45,080 Speaker 1: is that it has these proteins that work as hemagluten 788 00:43:45,160 --> 00:43:47,480 Speaker 1: ins in the blood. And The authors of the study 789 00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,880 Speaker 1: note that in cases when raw red and white kidney 790 00:43:49,920 --> 00:43:52,320 Speaker 1: beans have been fed to rats as eight percent of 791 00:43:52,400 --> 00:43:55,480 Speaker 1: their diet by mass, the rats tended to die within 792 00:43:55,640 --> 00:43:59,279 Speaker 1: three days. But when the hemaglutenants from red kidney means 793 00:43:59,400 --> 00:44:01,640 Speaker 1: were ice elated and fed to the rats, the rats 794 00:44:01,719 --> 00:44:04,320 Speaker 1: also lost weight and died. So even if you just 795 00:44:04,520 --> 00:44:07,160 Speaker 1: took the hemagluten ins out and gave that to the rats, 796 00:44:07,200 --> 00:44:10,480 Speaker 1: that seemed to have the same effect. And the authors 797 00:44:10,520 --> 00:44:13,000 Speaker 1: also note that the extreme toxin ric in, which is 798 00:44:13,040 --> 00:44:15,360 Speaker 1: found in castor beans, and we've talked about before that 799 00:44:15,560 --> 00:44:18,600 Speaker 1: that is also a hema gluten in. So the active 800 00:44:18,680 --> 00:44:21,680 Speaker 1: toxins and raw red kidney beans appear to be destroyed 801 00:44:21,840 --> 00:44:25,360 Speaker 1: pretty easily by sufficient heat heating. Just boil the beans, 802 00:44:25,840 --> 00:44:30,480 Speaker 1: which would seem rether straightforward like cook your beans. Yeah yeah, 803 00:44:30,560 --> 00:44:33,440 Speaker 1: And other studies have confirmed the role of raw undercook 804 00:44:33,480 --> 00:44:37,239 Speaker 1: kidney beans and food poisoning outbreaks. Um, the bottom line is, 805 00:44:37,320 --> 00:44:40,040 Speaker 1: if you boil your beans for a while, they'll be fine. 806 00:44:40,200 --> 00:44:43,120 Speaker 1: Obviously you don't want to eat them raw. But here's 807 00:44:43,120 --> 00:44:45,239 Speaker 1: actually the real danger, the thing that might get you 808 00:44:45,480 --> 00:44:47,799 Speaker 1: if you're not some kind of weird person who wants 809 00:44:47,800 --> 00:44:52,759 Speaker 1: to eat raw red kidney beans, low temperature cooking could 810 00:44:52,800 --> 00:44:55,359 Speaker 1: be a danger. So if, for example, you put your 811 00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:57,640 Speaker 1: beans in the slow cooker and you put it on 812 00:44:57,719 --> 00:44:59,919 Speaker 1: the low setting and you give them a couple hours, 813 00:45:00,520 --> 00:45:03,520 Speaker 1: it's possible that they will never reach the internal temperature 814 00:45:03,560 --> 00:45:07,040 Speaker 1: required to destroy the toxic lectins that could make you six. 815 00:45:07,160 --> 00:45:10,360 Speaker 1: So cook them thoroughly, cook them to the boiling point, 816 00:45:10,480 --> 00:45:13,439 Speaker 1: high temperature and uh. And of course, if you're using 817 00:45:13,520 --> 00:45:16,040 Speaker 1: canned beans, those are already boiled, so they'll be fine. 818 00:45:16,160 --> 00:45:18,640 Speaker 1: But if you want to treat yourself to the delights 819 00:45:18,719 --> 00:45:21,760 Speaker 1: of of well cooked beans from the dried state, boil 820 00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:26,759 Speaker 1: them well. With with increased taste comes increased responsibility. I'd say, yeah, 821 00:45:26,880 --> 00:45:30,000 Speaker 1: I was actually invited to, uh, you know, an amateur 822 00:45:30,520 --> 00:45:33,600 Speaker 1: chili cook off recently, and now I'm now I'm hesitating. 823 00:45:33,880 --> 00:45:35,360 Speaker 1: But but at the same time, I'm like most of 824 00:45:35,400 --> 00:45:38,480 Speaker 1: the people participating, they're probably gonna use canned beans, right, 825 00:45:38,760 --> 00:45:41,680 Speaker 1: or if they're gonna use dry beans, then they're gonna 826 00:45:41,719 --> 00:45:44,320 Speaker 1: know what's up. They're going to know how to approach 827 00:45:44,400 --> 00:45:46,799 Speaker 1: the dish. Well. I mean, I'd say surely they'll they'll 828 00:45:46,840 --> 00:45:50,279 Speaker 1: boil them that. I would be shocked if somebody makes 829 00:45:50,320 --> 00:45:54,319 Speaker 1: a chili and like ads ads soaked beans right before 830 00:45:54,440 --> 00:45:56,960 Speaker 1: serving it without boiling them or something that would be 831 00:45:57,000 --> 00:46:00,040 Speaker 1: a really last minute you know, they're just complete that 832 00:46:00,360 --> 00:46:03,720 Speaker 1: they didn't have time to actually cook it. Yeah, alright, 833 00:46:03,800 --> 00:46:07,040 Speaker 1: So we we've had we've had three dishes so far. 834 00:46:07,600 --> 00:46:11,279 Speaker 1: We've had our liquorice, We've we've had our bullfrog, we've 835 00:46:11,320 --> 00:46:13,759 Speaker 1: had our beans. Nobody has died jet or at least 836 00:46:13,760 --> 00:46:17,040 Speaker 1: we haven't specifically reference to study that included a fatality. No, 837 00:46:17,200 --> 00:46:18,879 Speaker 1: I feel like a lot of the foods that will 838 00:46:18,960 --> 00:46:22,320 Speaker 1: kill you we already knocked out in previous dangerous Foods episodes. 839 00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:24,399 Speaker 1: I mean, most of the time, if something will kill 840 00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:28,000 Speaker 1: you reliably enough for people to write about it, it's 841 00:46:28,200 --> 00:46:31,400 Speaker 1: not a common food, right, Yeah, And there's not like 842 00:46:31,520 --> 00:46:34,880 Speaker 1: a a very common and accepted way to avoid Uh. 843 00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:37,800 Speaker 1: That's sort of that sort of death. So mainly, I 844 00:46:37,840 --> 00:46:39,719 Speaker 1: guess we're talking about stuff that will make you sick. 845 00:46:39,840 --> 00:46:42,000 Speaker 1: But hey, what about stuff that will make you see 846 00:46:42,080 --> 00:46:44,759 Speaker 1: into the future. Oh, that sounds good. Let's take one 847 00:46:44,760 --> 00:46:48,080 Speaker 1: more commercial break, and when we come back, we will 848 00:46:48,120 --> 00:46:53,960 Speaker 1: have some hallucinogenic fish. All right, we're back, Robert. Do 849 00:46:54,040 --> 00:46:57,320 Speaker 1: you want to talk about fish madness? Sure, it sounds delightful. 850 00:46:58,040 --> 00:46:59,600 Speaker 1: I want to look at a couple of case studies 851 00:46:59,640 --> 00:47:02,920 Speaker 1: from a two thousand six paper in the journal Clinical 852 00:47:03,000 --> 00:47:07,480 Speaker 1: Toxicology by Luke to Harrow and Philip Palmier, And here 853 00:47:07,520 --> 00:47:11,560 Speaker 1: are the cases. So, in April nineteen, a healthy forty 854 00:47:11,640 --> 00:47:14,040 Speaker 1: year old man was on vacation in the French Riviera 855 00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,840 Speaker 1: and con and one night, after eating a dinner of 856 00:47:17,920 --> 00:47:21,120 Speaker 1: delicious baked sea bream. Actually, I can't comment on how 857 00:47:21,200 --> 00:47:23,759 Speaker 1: delicious it was. I assume it was delicious. Yeah, I mean, 858 00:47:24,360 --> 00:47:26,239 Speaker 1: considering where he's eating it, right, it must be very 859 00:47:26,320 --> 00:47:30,279 Speaker 1: classy dish. Sure. Yeah, so baked seabream. He starts to 860 00:47:30,360 --> 00:47:34,360 Speaker 1: feel weak and then nauseated, and he starts to vomit 861 00:47:34,520 --> 00:47:37,400 Speaker 1: during the night, and the next day he tries to 862 00:47:37,560 --> 00:47:41,440 Speaker 1: drive himself home, you know, getting back home from the vacation, 863 00:47:41,880 --> 00:47:45,320 Speaker 1: but he encountered a problem. On the way home. His 864 00:47:45,480 --> 00:47:49,120 Speaker 1: car was surrounded by quote giant arthropods. Oh my, so 865 00:47:49,200 --> 00:47:53,160 Speaker 1: this is not just mild hallucination here where everything's a 866 00:47:53,160 --> 00:47:56,239 Speaker 1: little wavy, like he is seeing giant insects. No, he's 867 00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,920 Speaker 1: not seeing like tracers and you know, like light auras 868 00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:03,080 Speaker 1: around things. No, he's seeing giant arthur pods surrounding his 869 00:48:03,239 --> 00:48:07,520 Speaker 1: vehicle full naked. And so, of course these giant arthur 870 00:48:07,600 --> 00:48:10,480 Speaker 1: pods were preventing him from driving home, and he went 871 00:48:10,520 --> 00:48:15,759 Speaker 1: on to experience terrifying hallucinations involving quote aggressive and screaming animals. 872 00:48:17,400 --> 00:48:22,640 Speaker 1: Agitated and confused, he somehow arrived at a hospital emergency room, 873 00:48:23,080 --> 00:48:25,200 Speaker 1: and once there, though he was in this state of 874 00:48:25,280 --> 00:48:28,880 Speaker 1: stress and excitation. He really didn't show any physical abnormalities. 875 00:48:28,880 --> 00:48:31,680 Speaker 1: They couldn't find anything wrong with his body other than 876 00:48:31,719 --> 00:48:34,120 Speaker 1: the fact that he was freaking out and stressed out 877 00:48:34,160 --> 00:48:36,640 Speaker 1: and distressed. So the hospital kept him for a couple 878 00:48:36,640 --> 00:48:39,320 Speaker 1: of days and after about thirty six hours his hallucinations 879 00:48:39,400 --> 00:48:44,720 Speaker 1: had disappeared. Another case March two thousand two and totally 880 00:48:44,920 --> 00:48:48,520 Speaker 1: healthy otherwise. Ninety year old man bought some sea bream 881 00:48:48,680 --> 00:48:51,400 Speaker 1: from a local fisherman at a place called santra Pez, 882 00:48:51,760 --> 00:48:55,160 Speaker 1: again in the French Riviera. He took it home, he 883 00:48:55,360 --> 00:48:58,360 Speaker 1: cleaned it, he prepared it, and he ate it. About 884 00:48:58,400 --> 00:49:01,960 Speaker 1: two hours after his meal, he started hearing strange noises. 885 00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:05,399 Speaker 1: He heard humans screaming all around him, and he heard 886 00:49:05,440 --> 00:49:09,520 Speaker 1: the sound of shrieking birds. And he experienced these hallucinations 887 00:49:09,560 --> 00:49:12,120 Speaker 1: and had terrible nightmares for about two or three days, 888 00:49:12,400 --> 00:49:15,280 Speaker 1: and then it all went away. Now, initially he didn't 889 00:49:15,320 --> 00:49:17,440 Speaker 1: report the symptoms because he was afraid it was the 890 00:49:17,560 --> 00:49:20,680 Speaker 1: onset of a permanent mental illness. And side note, if 891 00:49:21,000 --> 00:49:24,640 Speaker 1: you're experiencing unexpected hallucinations, whatever you think the cause might be, 892 00:49:24,800 --> 00:49:26,879 Speaker 1: it is better to tell somebody and try to get help. 893 00:49:26,960 --> 00:49:29,120 Speaker 1: Ye to say, I guess that had some weird fish 894 00:49:29,400 --> 00:49:31,800 Speaker 1: right now, because that's that's exactly what ebone'z are Scrooge 895 00:49:31,840 --> 00:49:34,360 Speaker 1: would do, right, Just blame it on the potato that 896 00:49:34,480 --> 00:49:37,680 Speaker 1: you could be a bit of cheese. Yeah. But anyway, 897 00:49:37,760 --> 00:49:40,320 Speaker 1: after all this was over, he remembered hearing from someone 898 00:49:40,440 --> 00:49:43,080 Speaker 1: at the fish market that the sea bream, the fish 899 00:49:43,160 --> 00:49:45,920 Speaker 1: he had eaten, had been known to cause hallucinations in 900 00:49:46,000 --> 00:49:49,120 Speaker 1: the past, and on that basis he called poison control 901 00:49:49,200 --> 00:49:52,759 Speaker 1: in Marseille. So in both cases, the fish the men 902 00:49:52,840 --> 00:49:56,440 Speaker 1: had eaten was this species of sea bream called Sarpa salpa, 903 00:49:56,800 --> 00:50:00,239 Speaker 1: also known as the Salima porgy or the gold line. 904 00:50:00,320 --> 00:50:02,160 Speaker 1: And I think this is because it has these little 905 00:50:02,239 --> 00:50:04,640 Speaker 1: yellow gold stripes. Nothing to do with that company that 906 00:50:04,719 --> 00:50:08,040 Speaker 1: hawks gold on TV. The authors of this paper note 907 00:50:08,080 --> 00:50:10,799 Speaker 1: that these are not the only cases of hallucinogenic fish 908 00:50:10,840 --> 00:50:13,960 Speaker 1: poisoning known uh and the by the way, the scientific 909 00:50:14,160 --> 00:50:16,840 Speaker 1: term for hallucinogenic fish poisoning I hope I do this 910 00:50:16,960 --> 00:50:22,520 Speaker 1: right is Ichthyolino tox is um. And it's widespread throughout 911 00:50:22,520 --> 00:50:25,719 Speaker 1: tropical regions of the Indian and Pacific Ocean, sometimes in 912 00:50:25,800 --> 00:50:29,120 Speaker 1: the Mediterranean, widespread but not necessarily common, So you see 913 00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:30,880 Speaker 1: it all over the place, but it does appear to 914 00:50:30,960 --> 00:50:32,880 Speaker 1: be rare. It's not something like if you go to 915 00:50:32,960 --> 00:50:36,759 Speaker 1: the tropics you can just expect to get fish madness um. 916 00:50:37,239 --> 00:50:41,200 Speaker 1: Other fish implicated in similar hallucinogenic poisonings would include things 917 00:50:41,239 --> 00:50:45,200 Speaker 1: like the c chub, the common mullet, the convict surgeon fish, 918 00:50:45,360 --> 00:50:48,799 Speaker 1: and the coral grouper. The convict surgeon fish does sound 919 00:50:48,800 --> 00:50:50,840 Speaker 1: a little suspect. Yeah, it is pretty good. They've got 920 00:50:50,920 --> 00:50:52,920 Speaker 1: a whole list. There are other ones too, mentioned in 921 00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:56,040 Speaker 1: the paper. Those were I thought the best names. So 922 00:50:56,280 --> 00:50:59,200 Speaker 1: here are the common symptoms you get with ichthyolino tox 923 00:50:59,400 --> 00:51:03,120 Speaker 1: is um. Within the first few minutes to two hours 924 00:51:03,200 --> 00:51:07,520 Speaker 1: after eating the fish, patients usually report symptoms similar to drunkenness, 925 00:51:07,680 --> 00:51:10,640 Speaker 1: like they've got a loss of balance and coordination and 926 00:51:10,800 --> 00:51:17,000 Speaker 1: quote generalized malaise, discomfort, uh, sometimes a sore throat sometimes 927 00:51:17,080 --> 00:51:20,239 Speaker 1: heartburn can occur at this phase and then comes the 928 00:51:20,320 --> 00:51:22,960 Speaker 1: second phase. This is usually a couple of hours after 929 00:51:23,080 --> 00:51:26,560 Speaker 1: eating the fish. You get the central nervous system effects, 930 00:51:26,760 --> 00:51:31,440 Speaker 1: and these would include delirium, visual and auditory hallucinations usually 931 00:51:31,600 --> 00:51:35,960 Speaker 1: reported as frightening and weirdly enough, the author's note this 932 00:51:36,239 --> 00:51:40,600 Speaker 1: they very often seem to involve animals. That's weird that 933 00:51:40,680 --> 00:51:44,040 Speaker 1: there would be like specific content common to the hallucination. 934 00:51:44,280 --> 00:51:48,000 Speaker 1: It's almost like it's like a a ghost that's been 935 00:51:48,040 --> 00:51:53,040 Speaker 1: summoned to punish the carnivore. Yeah. Uh, terrifying nightmares, depression, 936 00:51:53,520 --> 00:51:56,680 Speaker 1: the feeling that you're about to die, quote with reactive 937 00:51:56,719 --> 00:52:01,000 Speaker 1: tachycardia and hyperventilation, so feelings that death is coming make 938 00:52:01,080 --> 00:52:05,759 Speaker 1: people have elevated heart rhythms and and hyperventilation, and then 939 00:52:05,840 --> 00:52:10,320 Speaker 1: quote transient behavioral disturbances. Uh, this sounds just kind of 940 00:52:10,360 --> 00:52:14,319 Speaker 1: like odd, dangerous and erratic behavior. And this is one 941 00:52:14,360 --> 00:52:16,200 Speaker 1: of the things you can treat. You can treat this 942 00:52:16,280 --> 00:52:20,080 Speaker 1: with drugs like benzodiazepine or or neuraleptics in order to 943 00:52:20,160 --> 00:52:23,840 Speaker 1: prevent the patient from hurting themselves or others. But I 944 00:52:23,880 --> 00:52:27,279 Speaker 1: don't know, this conjures into mind these bizarre scenario where 945 00:52:27,600 --> 00:52:29,960 Speaker 1: it's like somebody's got the fish madness, and it's like, 946 00:52:30,080 --> 00:52:32,760 Speaker 1: just leave him be, son, he's got the fish madness. 947 00:52:32,840 --> 00:52:36,080 Speaker 1: It's got to run its course, and we just tie 948 00:52:36,200 --> 00:52:38,600 Speaker 1: him down and make sure he doesn't doesn't hurt himself. 949 00:52:39,640 --> 00:52:43,880 Speaker 1: But anyway, sometimes not always there is gastro intestinal distress, nausea, 950 00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:47,320 Speaker 1: abdominal pain, diarrhea, and at the time of this paper 951 00:52:47,440 --> 00:52:50,520 Speaker 1: there was no known antidote. I looked for for recent 952 00:52:50,600 --> 00:52:54,080 Speaker 1: research looking for an antidote, and I was unable to 953 00:52:54,160 --> 00:52:56,400 Speaker 1: find one. So it looks like something that cannot be cured. 954 00:52:56,560 --> 00:52:58,759 Speaker 1: You can just treat the symptoms and wait for it 955 00:52:58,880 --> 00:53:01,160 Speaker 1: to go away on its own. Now, I mentioned that 956 00:53:01,360 --> 00:53:04,399 Speaker 1: despite being widespread, the cases of poisoning of this kind 957 00:53:04,520 --> 00:53:08,000 Speaker 1: are rare. Hallucinogenic fish poisoning occurs, and only a fraction 958 00:53:08,120 --> 00:53:12,000 Speaker 1: of the cases of consuming these fish, and toxicity seems 959 00:53:12,040 --> 00:53:14,480 Speaker 1: to vary depending on a bunch of factors, like when 960 00:53:14,560 --> 00:53:17,440 Speaker 1: the fish was caught, though there are some conflicting claims 961 00:53:17,480 --> 00:53:22,040 Speaker 1: about like which season it is most dangerous, and especially 962 00:53:22,120 --> 00:53:25,399 Speaker 1: how it's prepared. According to a popular anecdote, the risk 963 00:53:25,440 --> 00:53:28,239 Speaker 1: of poisoning goes way up if you don't immediately gut 964 00:53:28,320 --> 00:53:31,480 Speaker 1: the fish after capture, or if you cook and serve 965 00:53:31,600 --> 00:53:34,160 Speaker 1: the head with the rest of the body. Okay, so 966 00:53:34,480 --> 00:53:38,840 Speaker 1: we see similar practices as with the bullfrog, where like 967 00:53:39,120 --> 00:53:40,839 Speaker 1: and it was with a with As with a lot 968 00:53:40,920 --> 00:53:43,560 Speaker 1: of animals that we eat, there are things you just 969 00:53:43,719 --> 00:53:45,640 Speaker 1: need to get rid of immediately in order to make 970 00:53:45,680 --> 00:53:49,560 Speaker 1: it edible. Yeah. Now, unlike the red kidney beans, cooking 971 00:53:49,640 --> 00:53:52,279 Speaker 1: does not seem to help. Bad fish strips have been 972 00:53:52,360 --> 00:53:54,560 Speaker 1: reported not just when the fish is eaten raw, but 973 00:53:54,680 --> 00:53:57,719 Speaker 1: when it's been boiled, steamed, fried. This is one where 974 00:53:57,800 --> 00:54:01,839 Speaker 1: the denaturing process of breading and frying will not necessarily 975 00:54:01,920 --> 00:54:05,080 Speaker 1: save you. Now, the good news is it generally does 976 00:54:05,160 --> 00:54:07,880 Speaker 1: not appear to be fatal, but obviously could be dangerous 977 00:54:07,920 --> 00:54:10,680 Speaker 1: if a dosed person can't get medical attention, or you're 978 00:54:10,680 --> 00:54:12,760 Speaker 1: trying to drive your car through a herd of giant 979 00:54:12,880 --> 00:54:16,040 Speaker 1: Arthur pods. On the other hand, you have to wonder 980 00:54:17,239 --> 00:54:20,560 Speaker 1: if you can trip on fish heads. Is anybody doing 981 00:54:20,600 --> 00:54:23,680 Speaker 1: it on purpose? I would assume so. Uh the answer so, 982 00:54:24,520 --> 00:54:27,319 Speaker 1: I'm not sure about this. The authors of this two 983 00:54:27,400 --> 00:54:30,719 Speaker 1: thousand six paper report that the answer is yes. That 984 00:54:30,960 --> 00:54:34,759 Speaker 1: people have been reported to do it recreationally. Um. They 985 00:54:34,840 --> 00:54:38,000 Speaker 1: say that Arabic speaking populations apparently called this fish the 986 00:54:38,080 --> 00:54:41,799 Speaker 1: fish that makes dreams. Uh. They claim that it has 987 00:54:41,840 --> 00:54:45,240 Speaker 1: been used recreationally as far back as the Roman Empire, 988 00:54:45,320 --> 00:54:48,120 Speaker 1: though I could not find corroborating evidence of this. All 989 00:54:48,280 --> 00:54:50,960 Speaker 1: references to this fact seem to just point back to 990 00:54:51,040 --> 00:54:53,279 Speaker 1: the claim in this paper. Well, and then also I 991 00:54:53,320 --> 00:54:55,239 Speaker 1: would wonder if it what if it has been used 992 00:54:56,000 --> 00:54:59,799 Speaker 1: that long, I mean recreationally or you could say shamanistically, right, 993 00:55:00,000 --> 00:55:02,799 Speaker 1: because that seems to be the pattern we take. Yeah, 994 00:55:02,800 --> 00:55:05,719 Speaker 1: they're probably people that that turned to one another and say, hey, 995 00:55:06,000 --> 00:55:08,600 Speaker 1: eat this fish. Who it happens. But it also seems 996 00:55:08,640 --> 00:55:11,840 Speaker 1: likely that someone would say, hey, uh, something magical happens 997 00:55:11,880 --> 00:55:16,919 Speaker 1: when you eat this fish. Let's talk about it. Yeah. Absolutely, 998 00:55:17,000 --> 00:55:19,560 Speaker 1: So I don't doubt at all that it's possible this 999 00:55:19,719 --> 00:55:21,719 Speaker 1: is the case, but I do I am kind of 1000 00:55:21,840 --> 00:55:25,320 Speaker 1: suspicious just because I I can't find independent verification of 1001 00:55:25,400 --> 00:55:28,919 Speaker 1: evidence of this, so I wonder. I'm not sure about 1002 00:55:28,960 --> 00:55:32,239 Speaker 1: that fact um. But they also claimed that it's been 1003 00:55:32,280 --> 00:55:36,719 Speaker 1: used recreationally more recently in Polynesia, and that another hallucinogenic fish, 1004 00:55:36,800 --> 00:55:40,920 Speaker 1: the sir mullet or malloid o dick. This samoe insis 1005 00:55:41,440 --> 00:55:43,480 Speaker 1: is traditionally known among some of the people's of the 1006 00:55:43,560 --> 00:55:47,640 Speaker 1: Hawaiian Islands as quote the chief of ghosts. Now here's 1007 00:55:47,640 --> 00:55:51,080 Speaker 1: the question what causes the poisoning. It's hard to know 1008 00:55:51,239 --> 00:55:54,719 Speaker 1: for sure. The author's note that one complicating factor is 1009 00:55:54,800 --> 00:55:57,319 Speaker 1: that some cases of o l I know toxic um 1010 00:55:57,360 --> 00:56:00,080 Speaker 1: seem to be confused with a totally different kind of 1011 00:56:00,200 --> 00:56:04,000 Speaker 1: fish poisoning called sigatara, and this is a condition that 1012 00:56:04,080 --> 00:56:06,680 Speaker 1: happens when you eat some tropical reef fish that have 1013 00:56:06,800 --> 00:56:11,600 Speaker 1: been contaminated with the species of microalgae, a dinoflagellate called 1014 00:56:11,920 --> 00:56:17,200 Speaker 1: gambier Discus toxicus, and people with sigtara experienced nausea, vomiting, 1015 00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:20,680 Speaker 1: and neurologic disturbances, so sounds kind of similar, but not 1016 00:56:20,960 --> 00:56:24,839 Speaker 1: disturbances to the central nervous system as with the hallucinogenic fish, 1017 00:56:24,920 --> 00:56:28,480 Speaker 1: and not the brain so much as the peripheral nervous system, 1018 00:56:28,560 --> 00:56:32,560 Speaker 1: for example, tingling of the fingers and toes, or illogical 1019 00:56:32,719 --> 00:56:35,560 Speaker 1: touch sensations like people say that the feelings of hot 1020 00:56:35,680 --> 00:56:40,759 Speaker 1: and cold are reversed for them um. So cigatara could 1021 00:56:40,800 --> 00:56:44,160 Speaker 1: be viewed as more serious than nick theo Alino toxic 1022 00:56:44,239 --> 00:56:47,920 Speaker 1: is um, since some patients actually die from sigtara, and 1023 00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:51,160 Speaker 1: if they survive, symptoms can last for months or even years. 1024 00:56:51,480 --> 00:56:55,440 Speaker 1: But one similarity between hallucinogenic fish poisoning and sigatara is 1025 00:56:55,520 --> 00:56:59,840 Speaker 1: that scientists have speculated the toxins that cause the hallucinations 1026 00:57:00,360 --> 00:57:03,919 Speaker 1: may also come from algae consumed by the fish, which 1027 00:57:04,000 --> 00:57:08,760 Speaker 1: contaminates the fish's meat with these psychoactive compounds. Just to mention, 1028 00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:13,040 Speaker 1: one study by Khaled belasued at All from two thousand 1029 00:57:13,120 --> 00:57:17,600 Speaker 1: and twelve published in in Vitro Cellular and Developmental Biology. 1030 00:57:18,160 --> 00:57:21,400 Speaker 1: They did some research on prepared extracts from Sarpa salpa, 1031 00:57:21,560 --> 00:57:24,560 Speaker 1: the sea bream, and they took extracts from the liver, 1032 00:57:24,800 --> 00:57:26,880 Speaker 1: the brain, and the muscle. And what they found was 1033 00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:31,360 Speaker 1: that the liver extract in particular was cytotoxic, meaning toxic 1034 00:57:31,440 --> 00:57:34,360 Speaker 1: two cells to human cells. And the source of this 1035 00:57:34,560 --> 00:57:36,520 Speaker 1: was they believed that in their research they showed that 1036 00:57:36,600 --> 00:57:40,560 Speaker 1: the toxic effects were traceable too elements in the fish's diet, 1037 00:57:40,680 --> 00:57:46,520 Speaker 1: specifically quote toxic dinoflageolates which live in epiphyte on Postadenia 1038 00:57:46,640 --> 00:57:50,360 Speaker 1: oceanica leaves. Now, epiphyte means a plant that grows on 1039 00:57:50,440 --> 00:57:54,360 Speaker 1: another plant, right, So the Postadenia oceanica is a type 1040 00:57:54,400 --> 00:57:57,360 Speaker 1: of sea grass that lives in the Mediterranean. So the 1041 00:57:57,440 --> 00:58:00,360 Speaker 1: fish graze on the sea grass and the sea grass 1042 00:58:00,560 --> 00:58:04,080 Speaker 1: is a host for this little organism which produces the toxins. 1043 00:58:04,360 --> 00:58:06,840 Speaker 1: The toxins accumulate in the liver of the fish, and 1044 00:58:06,880 --> 00:58:09,680 Speaker 1: the liver can poison a human who eats it. All right, 1045 00:58:09,960 --> 00:58:12,720 Speaker 1: I have one final selection here. It is it is 1046 00:58:12,760 --> 00:58:15,760 Speaker 1: another meat. It's a rather unique meat. And I will 1047 00:58:15,800 --> 00:58:18,560 Speaker 1: warn everyone that that that people will die on this one, 1048 00:58:18,880 --> 00:58:22,080 Speaker 1: but probably not that many people. So the dish in 1049 00:58:22,200 --> 00:58:27,280 Speaker 1: question is san naji, which is a Korean delicacy. Uh. 1050 00:58:27,480 --> 00:58:30,360 Speaker 1: And the chef prepares it by slicing the tentacles off 1051 00:58:30,360 --> 00:58:34,480 Speaker 1: of a small live octopus, live octopus, yes, And then 1052 00:58:34,520 --> 00:58:37,439 Speaker 1: these tentacles are are seasoned, they're tossed in sesame oil 1053 00:58:37,800 --> 00:58:40,360 Speaker 1: and served with various sauces, you know, like a chili 1054 00:58:40,440 --> 00:58:42,640 Speaker 1: sauce or something. And then the dish is brought to 1055 00:58:42,720 --> 00:58:45,880 Speaker 1: the table while it's while everything is still moving and 1056 00:58:45,960 --> 00:58:50,920 Speaker 1: writhing around. It's a Lovecraftian feast. It's a it's chewy, 1057 00:58:51,640 --> 00:58:54,280 Speaker 1: but it's also crawley, as the tentacles continue to move 1058 00:58:54,360 --> 00:58:57,040 Speaker 1: around on the plate with their little suction cups. So 1059 00:58:57,160 --> 00:58:59,200 Speaker 1: it has to say the least. It has a unique 1060 00:58:59,280 --> 00:59:04,200 Speaker 1: texture invite and it invites extreme opinions. Wait, this makes 1061 00:59:04,240 --> 00:59:06,720 Speaker 1: me think, is this a thing to be to be 1062 00:59:07,040 --> 00:59:10,160 Speaker 1: chewed like like or a thing to just be sort 1063 00:59:10,200 --> 00:59:12,640 Speaker 1: of shot like an oyster. Maybe do not shoot like 1064 00:59:12,720 --> 00:59:15,040 Speaker 1: an oyster. Is the is the take on that I 1065 00:59:15,200 --> 00:59:17,439 Speaker 1: that I got from from reading about it. Uh, yeah, 1066 00:59:17,480 --> 00:59:19,959 Speaker 1: you're gonna want to chew this up. Now I mentioned 1067 00:59:20,000 --> 00:59:21,760 Speaker 1: the extreme opinions. This is one of those dishes where 1068 00:59:21,760 --> 00:59:23,240 Speaker 1: if you're hearing this, you might be saying, yeah, I'll 1069 00:59:23,240 --> 00:59:25,160 Speaker 1: give that a shot. That sounds like it's like sushi 1070 00:59:25,240 --> 00:59:28,080 Speaker 1: that moves. Other people might say, well that that that 1071 00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:32,320 Speaker 1: sounds absolutely disgusting, and it does seem to They do 1072 00:59:32,400 --> 00:59:36,080 Speaker 1: seem to target restaurants, deuced team to target tourists for 1073 00:59:36,120 --> 00:59:40,000 Speaker 1: this very reason, like people who want something exciting and 1074 00:59:40,080 --> 00:59:43,120 Speaker 1: I'm and exotic. Right, it's something I imagine a lot 1075 00:59:43,160 --> 00:59:45,640 Speaker 1: of people take pictures of themselves eating right. And one 1076 00:59:45,680 --> 00:59:48,480 Speaker 1: of the reasons is because it's reputation. It's said that 1077 00:59:48,600 --> 00:59:50,840 Speaker 1: if you that that it is a dish that can 1078 00:59:50,960 --> 00:59:54,400 Speaker 1: potentially choke you. Uh and and there is some reason 1079 00:59:54,560 --> 00:59:57,560 Speaker 1: reasoning behind this. Uh. The most important thing is that 1080 00:59:57,720 --> 00:59:59,880 Speaker 1: if you do have it, have this dish, you need 1081 01:00:00,080 --> 01:00:02,360 Speaker 1: to chew it up, because the idea here is that 1082 01:00:02,360 --> 01:00:04,320 Speaker 1: if you don't chew it up enough, the suction cups 1083 01:00:04,360 --> 01:00:06,840 Speaker 1: on the tentacles will remain intact enough to stick to 1084 01:00:06,880 --> 01:00:09,360 Speaker 1: the roof of your mouth or the inside of your throat, 1085 01:00:09,600 --> 01:00:13,200 Speaker 1: potentially choking you. So I'm reminded of, you know, from 1086 01:00:13,280 --> 01:00:16,080 Speaker 1: Hell's heart. I stab at the You know you've captured me, 1087 01:00:16,160 --> 01:00:18,360 Speaker 1: you've killed me, you've served me. But maybe I get 1088 01:00:18,400 --> 01:00:20,520 Speaker 1: this one last chance to choke you. I mentioned the 1089 01:00:20,840 --> 01:00:23,400 Speaker 1: sesame oil. I've also read that the sesame oil helps 1090 01:00:23,480 --> 01:00:26,680 Speaker 1: prevent the suckers from attaching as you eat it. But again, 1091 01:00:26,840 --> 01:00:29,920 Speaker 1: you're gonna want to chew this up. Writer Matt Gross 1092 01:00:30,400 --> 01:00:32,760 Speaker 1: discussed the dish in his two thousand eight New York 1093 01:00:32,840 --> 01:00:37,320 Speaker 1: Times article A Quest into the Gustatory Heart of Soul, 1094 01:00:37,880 --> 01:00:41,040 Speaker 1: and he shared the following. The most surprising thing about 1095 01:00:41,520 --> 01:00:44,840 Speaker 1: sun Nacci It tasted good, clean and meaty, and once 1096 01:00:44,880 --> 01:00:48,240 Speaker 1: I've gotten over the discombobulation that comes from eating something 1097 01:00:48,320 --> 01:00:51,080 Speaker 1: that most definitely does not want to be eaten, I 1098 01:00:51,320 --> 01:00:54,280 Speaker 1: was chop sticking tentacles into my mouth as if they 1099 01:00:54,320 --> 01:00:59,280 Speaker 1: were octo popcorn. Octo popcorn, and uh, interestingly enough, I 1100 01:00:59,360 --> 01:01:01,840 Speaker 1: found a news article from two thousand twelve in which 1101 01:01:01,880 --> 01:01:04,880 Speaker 1: a man was accused of murdering his girlfriend and he 1102 01:01:05,000 --> 01:01:07,360 Speaker 1: claimed that he didn't kill her, but she simply choked 1103 01:01:07,400 --> 01:01:10,160 Speaker 1: to death on an order of sun nachi in their 1104 01:01:10,200 --> 01:01:12,480 Speaker 1: hotel room, So take that for what it's worth. I 1105 01:01:12,480 --> 01:01:14,720 Speaker 1: couldn't find any coverage that followed up on that to 1106 01:01:14,760 --> 01:01:17,360 Speaker 1: see who was actually telling the truth there. But again, 1107 01:01:17,400 --> 01:01:21,040 Speaker 1: this is a dish that elects strong opinions. Now, I myself, 1108 01:01:21,080 --> 01:01:23,560 Speaker 1: I've chosen to abstain from eating octopus, so the idea 1109 01:01:23,680 --> 01:01:25,720 Speaker 1: is it's super appealing to me. But I do love 1110 01:01:25,800 --> 01:01:28,120 Speaker 1: sushi and Korean food, so I can imagine how one 1111 01:01:28,240 --> 01:01:31,440 Speaker 1: might enjoy it. Now. Octopier, of course amazing organisms, and 1112 01:01:31,480 --> 01:01:34,320 Speaker 1: they boast a number of different defenses against predators. They 1113 01:01:34,360 --> 01:01:38,680 Speaker 1: have camouflage, inc threatening displays, high speed jet propulsion, escape, 1114 01:01:38,760 --> 01:01:41,760 Speaker 1: and venom. But it would seem that in some cases, 1115 01:01:42,120 --> 01:01:44,720 Speaker 1: you know, their their final defense is their choke ability. 1116 01:01:44,800 --> 01:01:48,080 Speaker 1: Now I wonder would that be an actual adaptation. I 1117 01:01:48,160 --> 01:01:50,800 Speaker 1: guess it possibly could be, like in the same way 1118 01:01:50,920 --> 01:01:54,439 Speaker 1: that a uh an animal could have toxins that would 1119 01:01:54,440 --> 01:01:58,000 Speaker 1: be poisonous basically to discourage other animals from eating it. 1120 01:01:58,960 --> 01:02:02,160 Speaker 1: You could have some kind of mechanical action of your 1121 01:02:02,240 --> 01:02:07,400 Speaker 1: flesh that punishes an animal that eats you and discourages predation. Well, yeah, 1122 01:02:07,400 --> 01:02:11,360 Speaker 1: I mean there there are adaptations that discourage, you know, 1123 01:02:11,480 --> 01:02:14,560 Speaker 1: being eaten. Obviously, I guess it. It's hard to really 1124 01:02:14,640 --> 01:02:16,680 Speaker 1: nail down the octopus on this right, because it has 1125 01:02:16,760 --> 01:02:20,960 Speaker 1: so many other robust defensive mechanisms. Uh And, but we 1126 01:02:21,040 --> 01:02:23,960 Speaker 1: do have examples that have come to light where let's say, 1127 01:02:24,000 --> 01:02:27,040 Speaker 1: a dolphin has attempted to eat an octopus and it 1128 01:02:27,120 --> 01:02:29,160 Speaker 1: has choked on it. But of course that can be 1129 01:02:29,200 --> 01:02:30,680 Speaker 1: said of a lot of different foods. I mean a 1130 01:02:30,760 --> 01:02:33,760 Speaker 1: lot of human foods. Are you know, you if it 1131 01:02:33,840 --> 01:02:36,080 Speaker 1: goes down wrong, you can choke, and if you choke, 1132 01:02:36,240 --> 01:02:39,960 Speaker 1: you can die. However, there is one example of an 1133 01:02:39,960 --> 01:02:45,200 Speaker 1: animal that does seem to have a choking the predator adaptation, 1134 01:02:45,560 --> 01:02:48,520 Speaker 1: and that is of course the hagfish, which, if you've 1135 01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:51,080 Speaker 1: ever seen footage of these, these things are amazing, this 1136 01:02:51,200 --> 01:02:56,840 Speaker 1: kind of faceless, joyless um slug fish creature, and when threatened, 1137 01:02:56,960 --> 01:03:01,120 Speaker 1: they squeeze out this gill choking slime, just this thick, viscous, 1138 01:03:01,640 --> 01:03:05,600 Speaker 1: uh lube like material and uh and and this appears 1139 01:03:05,640 --> 01:03:07,440 Speaker 1: to be one of its adaptations, is that if something 1140 01:03:07,520 --> 01:03:09,600 Speaker 1: tries to eat it, they're just gonna get a mouthful 1141 01:03:09,760 --> 01:03:13,080 Speaker 1: and perhaps gills full of slime that could choke them out. 1142 01:03:13,400 --> 01:03:16,440 Speaker 1: Defend yourself by being disgusting. Yeah, the hagfish has it. 1143 01:03:16,560 --> 01:03:19,280 Speaker 1: Has it down to a fine science. Now, speaking of choking, 1144 01:03:19,400 --> 01:03:21,680 Speaker 1: in previous episodes, we've discussed, you know a lot of 1145 01:03:21,720 --> 01:03:24,920 Speaker 1: times how Western culture is given to panic about poisoning 1146 01:03:25,000 --> 01:03:29,480 Speaker 1: and danger from unfamiliar foods from other cuisines, but that 1147 01:03:29,560 --> 01:03:31,960 Speaker 1: when you look up, the number is actually the most 1148 01:03:32,080 --> 01:03:35,000 Speaker 1: harmful food poisoning outbreaks in the United States tend to 1149 01:03:35,040 --> 01:03:37,760 Speaker 1: come from things that are considered to be very ordinary 1150 01:03:37,840 --> 01:03:41,920 Speaker 1: American products, not exotic foods. Uh. One of the big 1151 01:03:41,960 --> 01:03:45,000 Speaker 1: ones is let us another leafy greens in a bag, 1152 01:03:45,800 --> 01:03:50,080 Speaker 1: but also meats, cheeses, prepared packaged foods like peanut butter. 1153 01:03:50,680 --> 01:03:53,360 Speaker 1: And it turns out the same principle holds true not 1154 01:03:53,600 --> 01:03:57,280 Speaker 1: just for food poisoning by pathogens and contaminants, but for 1155 01:03:57,440 --> 01:04:01,800 Speaker 1: choking risk. Study in twenty thirteen reviewed the foods that 1156 01:04:01,960 --> 01:04:04,560 Speaker 1: most children choked on between two thousand one and two 1157 01:04:04,600 --> 01:04:09,160 Speaker 1: thousand nine, and the primary culprit was, of course, not octopus, uh, 1158 01:04:09,280 --> 01:04:13,080 Speaker 1: not any kind of ethnic cuisine from anywhere in the world. 1159 01:04:13,120 --> 01:04:16,040 Speaker 1: It was hard candy, Yeah, that would make sense, because 1160 01:04:16,200 --> 01:04:19,560 Speaker 1: you know, there are other highly chokable foods, such as 1161 01:04:19,640 --> 01:04:22,960 Speaker 1: say grapes, where with the young kids, you're always being reminded, 1162 01:04:23,000 --> 01:04:26,200 Speaker 1: will make sure you slice those grapes in half, you know, Uh, 1163 01:04:26,720 --> 01:04:29,240 Speaker 1: you can do that with grapes. Hard candy is that's 1164 01:04:29,280 --> 01:04:32,040 Speaker 1: a taller order. Yeah. So in this period from two 1165 01:04:32,080 --> 01:04:34,920 Speaker 1: thousand one to two thousand nine, more than sixteen thousand 1166 01:04:35,080 --> 01:04:37,920 Speaker 1: children showed up in e ers choking on hard candy. 1167 01:04:38,440 --> 01:04:41,920 Speaker 1: That means that's about fifteen percent of all child emergency 1168 01:04:42,000 --> 01:04:45,720 Speaker 1: room visits due to choking were caused by hard candy. So, 1169 01:04:45,960 --> 01:04:48,200 Speaker 1: other than the fact that they're disgusting, this is another 1170 01:04:48,280 --> 01:04:52,640 Speaker 1: good reason nobody should ever buy Jolly Ranchers. Yeah, pick 1171 01:04:52,720 --> 01:04:56,880 Speaker 1: up the the nice, tuable black twizzlers instead, Far better 1172 01:04:56,960 --> 01:04:59,160 Speaker 1: for you, right, I don't even those might not even 1173 01:04:59,280 --> 01:05:02,280 Speaker 1: be made with the real liquorice extract. Yeah, I'm not sure. Well, 1174 01:05:02,480 --> 01:05:04,760 Speaker 1: but you have that that one study where they specifically 1175 01:05:04,800 --> 01:05:06,960 Speaker 1: said that was several years back. That's true, so the 1176 01:05:07,040 --> 01:05:10,240 Speaker 1: recipe may have changed. Yeah, I don't know. More research 1177 01:05:10,360 --> 01:05:13,680 Speaker 1: is required. Uh don't don't. Don't take our word for it. 1178 01:05:13,800 --> 01:05:16,840 Speaker 1: On the the actual liquorice content. If you're Candy well, Robert, 1179 01:05:16,880 --> 01:05:20,680 Speaker 1: I hope you feel satisfied by this feast today. Yeah, yeah, 1180 01:05:20,720 --> 01:05:24,200 Speaker 1: I feel like this was a dangerous feast we made. 1181 01:05:24,200 --> 01:05:26,200 Speaker 1: We made it through. We learned a little bit about 1182 01:05:26,240 --> 01:05:30,600 Speaker 1: other cultures and other culinary traditions, and yeah, and hopefully 1183 01:05:30,640 --> 01:05:32,840 Speaker 1: we'll learned a little bit about ourselves. You know. By 1184 01:05:33,040 --> 01:05:36,880 Speaker 1: by focusing in on, you know, seemingly exotic food that 1185 01:05:37,040 --> 01:05:39,880 Speaker 1: can choke, you were forced to realize, Oh, yeah, most 1186 01:05:39,960 --> 01:05:42,200 Speaker 1: of our food can choke us. It doesn't have to 1187 01:05:42,240 --> 01:05:45,560 Speaker 1: be writhing and around and have suction cups on it 1188 01:05:45,840 --> 01:05:49,280 Speaker 1: to pose a potential danger. All right, Well, hey, we'd 1189 01:05:49,320 --> 01:05:51,760 Speaker 1: love to hear from anyone out there who has tried 1190 01:05:51,840 --> 01:05:55,200 Speaker 1: these various dishes. Have you had the African bullfrog? Have 1191 01:05:55,640 --> 01:06:00,760 Speaker 1: have you had uh, writhing tentacles in a in a 1192 01:06:00,920 --> 01:06:04,520 Speaker 1: soul restaurant? Have you had hallucinogenic fish poisoning? I guess 1193 01:06:04,560 --> 01:06:06,120 Speaker 1: we'll probably hear from a lot of people if we 1194 01:06:06,160 --> 01:06:09,480 Speaker 1: ask if you've had red kidney beans. But but but 1195 01:06:09,640 --> 01:06:11,760 Speaker 1: please out there cook those beans? Yes, have you had 1196 01:06:11,840 --> 01:06:13,560 Speaker 1: these things? And then have you suffered any of the 1197 01:06:13,960 --> 01:06:17,400 Speaker 1: symptoms that we've discussed and Hey, weird, It's open season 1198 01:06:17,480 --> 01:06:19,680 Speaker 1: for comments on black liquor issue. What do you love it? 1199 01:06:19,840 --> 01:06:22,560 Speaker 1: Do you hate it? Do you have weird feelings about it? 1200 01:06:22,920 --> 01:06:25,200 Speaker 1: Let us know. Yeah, it's it's a polarizing snack in 1201 01:06:25,280 --> 01:06:27,680 Speaker 1: many respects. Hey, get in touch with us all the 1202 01:06:27,760 --> 01:06:30,240 Speaker 1: normal ways. Heading over to stuffable your mind dot com. 1203 01:06:30,320 --> 01:06:33,800 Speaker 1: That's where we'll find all the podcast episodes and videos 1204 01:06:33,840 --> 01:06:36,120 Speaker 1: and blog post links out to our various social media 1205 01:06:36,120 --> 01:06:39,520 Speaker 1: accounts as well, So just Twitter, Tumbler, Facebook, and Instagram, 1206 01:06:39,760 --> 01:06:42,280 Speaker 1: and on Facebook, be sure to check out our discussion module. 1207 01:06:42,320 --> 01:06:44,120 Speaker 1: That's a group where you can you can join up 1208 01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:46,920 Speaker 1: and chat with other listeners, and if you want to 1209 01:06:46,920 --> 01:06:49,120 Speaker 1: get in touch with us directly, as always, you can 1210 01:06:49,240 --> 01:06:51,880 Speaker 1: email us at blow the Mind. It's how stuff works 1211 01:06:52,040 --> 01:07:04,720 Speaker 1: dot com for more on this and thousands of other topics, 1212 01:07:04,800 --> 01:07:06,360 Speaker 1: because it how stuff works dot com