WEBVTT - Liam Le Guillou: An Unknown Compelling Force PT 2 0:00:00.600 --> 0:00:05.199 This story contains adult content and language. Listener discretion is advised. 0:00:13.440 --> 0:00:16.079 I don't know. I was sat at home and thought, Okay, 0:00:16.120 --> 0:00:18.200 who's going to go out there and find these facts? 0:00:18.320 --> 0:00:20.640 And at that point in time, I had the opportunity, 0:00:20.680 --> 0:00:23.159 I had the cameras, and I just jumped on it. 0:00:28.880 --> 0:00:32.720 I'm Kate Winkler Dawson, a nonfiction author and journalism professor 0:00:32.800 --> 0:00:35.519 in Austin, Texas. I'm also the co host of the 0:00:35.560 --> 0:00:39.400 podcast Buried Bones on Exactly Right, and throughout my career, 0:00:39.680 --> 0:00:43.400 research for my many audio and book projects has taken 0:00:43.479 --> 0:00:46.680 me around the world. On Wicked Words, I sit down 0:00:46.760 --> 0:00:51.480 with the people I've met along the way, amazing writers, journalists, filmmakers, 0:00:51.479 --> 0:00:55.920 and podcasters who have investigated and reported on notorious true 0:00:55.920 --> 0:00:59.680 crime cases. This is about the choices writers make, both 0:00:59.720 --> 0:01:02.680 good and bad, and it's a deep dive into the 0:01:02.800 --> 0:01:08.560 unpublished details behind their stories. Hey, y'all, before we get 0:01:08.600 --> 0:01:10.360 to our guests, I wanted to let you know that 0:01:10.440 --> 0:01:13.480 Paul Hols and I have started a Patreon It's called 0:01:13.560 --> 0:01:15.760 Hey It's Kate and Paul, and you can go to 0:01:15.959 --> 0:01:19.280 patreon dot com slash Kate and Paul for all sorts 0:01:19.319 --> 0:01:22.360 of extra stuff. So I'm starting a book club. Woooo. 0:01:22.560 --> 0:01:26.440 It's called the Plot Thickens. We have movie reviews, movies 0:01:26.600 --> 0:01:30.280 like Silence of the Lambs or Zodiac or Seven with 0:01:30.480 --> 0:01:33.520 Paul's takes on more current cases. And we've got a 0:01:33.560 --> 0:01:36.319 lot of fun stuff and we like to interact with 0:01:36.360 --> 0:01:40.480 all of our members. So go to patreon dot com 0:01:40.520 --> 0:01:43.080 slash Kate and Paul and we can't wait to see you. 0:01:44.400 --> 0:01:48.200 We're back talking to filmmaker Liam Legueue about his documentary 0:01:48.520 --> 0:01:52.720 An Unknown Compelling Force the Diet Love Past incident. We 0:01:52.880 --> 0:01:55.640 learn more about the victims, and we hear about many 0:01:55.760 --> 0:02:03.200 conspiracy theories. What about the remaining four that we're missing? 0:02:04.000 --> 0:02:07.520 Right, So, the remaining four weren't found the search parties 0:02:07.600 --> 0:02:10.440 and there were many, many people. They were camped up there, 0:02:10.480 --> 0:02:13.560 they were living there. They searched and searched and could 0:02:13.600 --> 0:02:17.760 not find the remaining four until a couple of months later. 0:02:17.880 --> 0:02:21.200 It wasn't until the beginning of May that they found 0:02:21.240 --> 0:02:24.520 So again just a reminder that we found the rest 0:02:24.520 --> 0:02:27.480 of them on the twenty seventh of February. It's now 0:02:27.520 --> 0:02:30.120 the beginning of May that we find the rest of 0:02:30.160 --> 0:02:36.040 these bodies. Now effectively these bodies are found in a ravine, 0:02:37.040 --> 0:02:40.400 and they were kind of together in the ravine. It 0:02:40.440 --> 0:02:43.440 looked like two of them had their arms around each other, 0:02:43.440 --> 0:02:45.679 as if they were kind of huddling for warmth, and 0:02:45.760 --> 0:02:48.959 so it's unusual that they found in very deep Snow, 0:02:49.280 --> 0:02:53.200 what happens here is when they autopsy report is done 0:02:53.200 --> 0:02:56.680 on these bodies, we find that two of them, Ludmilia, 0:02:56.840 --> 0:03:00.520 one of the girls, and Sasha, the older gentlemen that 0:03:00.639 --> 0:03:04.600 joined the group, they both have massive rib fractures to 0:03:04.720 --> 0:03:09.200 their upper ribs, so their ribs were crushed so much 0:03:09.280 --> 0:03:12.760 so that at least in one case, the ribs had 0:03:12.800 --> 0:03:16.799 punctured the heart. Now, from my understanding from the autopsy 0:03:16.840 --> 0:03:19.520 reports and from what the review that we made of 0:03:19.520 --> 0:03:23.800 it was these injuries were caused at time of death, 0:03:24.160 --> 0:03:27.200 So these weren't as a result of snow being poured 0:03:27.200 --> 0:03:30.800 on the month later. So this happened to them here 0:03:31.160 --> 0:03:33.959 in this location or roughly here. I mean, they could 0:03:33.960 --> 0:03:36.200 have been somewhere in this area and then dragged to 0:03:36.320 --> 0:03:41.320 the ravine potentially, but they were caused around this area. Now, also, 0:03:41.920 --> 0:03:44.240 this is a horror. It's kind of a horrific fact 0:03:44.280 --> 0:03:48.080 that gets mentioned a lot that Ludmilia's eyes were missing, 0:03:48.680 --> 0:03:51.960 and people talk about this in all sorts of horrible ways, 0:03:52.000 --> 0:03:55.960 like ritual killing. The likelihood is the ravine had started 0:03:55.960 --> 0:03:58.760 to fall underneath and there was some flowing water. The 0:03:58.960 --> 0:04:02.040 likelihood is a lot of this soft tissue was washed 0:04:02.080 --> 0:04:07.080 away by the water, so it's unlikely that necessary that 0:04:07.320 --> 0:04:09.960 the eyes were damaged in some sort of an attack. 0:04:10.320 --> 0:04:15.960 But her tongue was also missing. Now that isn't a 0:04:16.000 --> 0:04:20.440 soft tissue that would naturally weather away in that way. 0:04:20.960 --> 0:04:23.080 There isn't enough information to say whether or not an 0:04:23.120 --> 0:04:25.120 animal had got it. But I remember they were buried 0:04:25.200 --> 0:04:28.279 underneath snows, so I don't know what animal was getting there. 0:04:28.680 --> 0:04:33.600 Her tongue was missing. It's not clear to us how 0:04:33.720 --> 0:04:36.440 and why that was missing. It wasn't documented well enough 0:04:36.480 --> 0:04:41.560 to tell what happened there. Although the forensic expert from 0:04:41.680 --> 0:04:45.320 Russia who I spoke to, it's her feeling from how 0:04:45.360 --> 0:04:49.600 she interpreted the documents that it was cut out, and 0:04:49.640 --> 0:04:53.240 so we're leaning into her take on this. That is 0:04:53.320 --> 0:04:55.760 highly disputed, but it is her take that it was 0:04:55.800 --> 0:04:56.279 cut out. 0:04:56.760 --> 0:05:00.400 Wow, okay, and some of them were you said, holding 0:05:00.440 --> 0:05:03.400 each other. We're assuming that's for warmth I assume. 0:05:03.600 --> 0:05:05.680 Yeah, yeah, it appears to be that they were there 0:05:05.760 --> 0:05:08.760 huddled together for warmth or you know, could they have 0:05:08.839 --> 0:05:11.960 been staged in that way some way. I mean, it's possible, 0:05:12.040 --> 0:05:13.279 but we're not sure. 0:05:13.560 --> 0:05:15.880 Now, was there something odd about their clothing? Who was 0:05:15.880 --> 0:05:16.920 wearing witch clothing? 0:05:17.320 --> 0:05:21.599 Yes, so the clothing had been switched around and moved 0:05:21.640 --> 0:05:23.880 around a little bit. But I think that's the two 0:05:23.960 --> 0:05:27.200 guys who were first found at the Cedar Tree. It 0:05:27.279 --> 0:05:29.960 looks like some of their clothing had been taken from 0:05:30.000 --> 0:05:33.479 them by the others who were perhaps surviving, So that 0:05:33.560 --> 0:05:35.720 makes sense. You know, if someone had passed away, then 0:05:36.080 --> 0:05:37.400 you know you're going to do what you have to 0:05:37.440 --> 0:05:39.800 do and take someone else's clothes. So there was a 0:05:39.839 --> 0:05:41.919 little bit of that, and there were some pieces of 0:05:41.920 --> 0:05:45.480 clothes that were torn. I think one of the girls 0:05:45.520 --> 0:05:48.120 that was missing her boots, and she'd taken a kind 0:05:48.120 --> 0:05:50.520 of an over shirt from one of the guys and 0:05:50.560 --> 0:05:52.880 wrapped it around her feet in place of a kind 0:05:52.880 --> 0:05:56.080 of shoe. The clothing is interesting and maybe we'll dive 0:05:56.120 --> 0:05:59.040 into one of the conspiracies quickly here, because there's one 0:05:59.160 --> 0:06:03.520 element of the clothing, which is the search parties and 0:06:03.560 --> 0:06:06.839 the lead investigator at the time, was hearing stories about 0:06:07.000 --> 0:06:10.320 rockets in the area and lights in the sky, and 0:06:10.400 --> 0:06:13.960 so he ordered a radiation test to be done on 0:06:14.000 --> 0:06:17.599 the hiker's clothes. And it turns out two of the 0:06:17.640 --> 0:06:22.200 people in the found in this ravine had tested positive 0:06:22.200 --> 0:06:26.560 for radiation on their clothes. So this now makes this 0:06:26.680 --> 0:06:30.039 story while they're and weirder than ever. This for me 0:06:30.200 --> 0:06:33.960 was a real difficult one to get away from it. 0:06:33.960 --> 0:06:36.359 It really does imply, okay, is there some sort of 0:06:36.720 --> 0:06:40.400 military Soviet Russian involvement here. But once I really dug 0:06:40.440 --> 0:06:44.080 into this, I found that actually one of the hikers, 0:06:45.040 --> 0:06:51.760 Yuri Krivenshenka, he actually worked at a nuclear power facility 0:06:52.200 --> 0:06:56.080 and it's called in a place called Kushtam And actually 0:06:56.080 --> 0:06:59.520 there was a meltdown and this power plant actually melted 0:06:59.560 --> 0:07:02.720 down and it was at the time the world's largest 0:07:03.040 --> 0:07:06.440 nuclear power plant meltdown, known as the kushed and disaster. 0:07:07.240 --> 0:07:10.400 And this has been kept out of the public until 0:07:10.440 --> 0:07:12.720 the fall of the Soviet Union. No one knew about it. 0:07:12.760 --> 0:07:15.960 The Americans knew about it through spy network and surveillance, 0:07:16.040 --> 0:07:20.520 but it wasn't spoken about. Now kriven Schenker he actually 0:07:20.560 --> 0:07:25.480 worked at this power plant involved in the cleanup operation. 0:07:25.920 --> 0:07:30.239 He actually wrote a letter requesting to be transferred because 0:07:30.240 --> 0:07:33.840 he didn't have confidence in the group that was involved 0:07:33.840 --> 0:07:36.560 in doing the cleanup. He effectively said, you guys don't 0:07:36.600 --> 0:07:39.600 know what you're doing and it's dangerous. So he requested 0:07:39.600 --> 0:07:42.360 to make a transfer before he'd gone on this this 0:07:42.480 --> 0:07:44.920 hiking journey, because he was working there. So all of 0:07:44.960 --> 0:07:47.480 a sudden, now we have a full explanation of why 0:07:47.960 --> 0:07:50.840 radiation may have been on It was found on the 0:07:50.880 --> 0:07:53.120 girl's clothes, but she had taken it. Turns out it 0:07:53.240 --> 0:07:56.920 was his sweater, so he had probably brought this sweater 0:07:57.440 --> 0:08:01.200 along with him, it had radiation on him, and it 0:08:01.360 --> 0:08:04.200 just by chance the clothes got swapped around. So I 0:08:04.200 --> 0:08:06.840 think the radiation is a big red herring. I don't 0:08:06.880 --> 0:08:10.400 think that we can I think there's a valid answer 0:08:10.480 --> 0:08:12.200 as to why radiation that occurred. 0:08:15.840 --> 0:08:18.360 What about the burns on the trees? Right, I know 0:08:18.440 --> 0:08:21.520 that there was an explanation for the burning where they 0:08:21.520 --> 0:08:24.040 were making the campfire, But did you mention that that 0:08:24.080 --> 0:08:26.240 there were burns on the trees of above, as if 0:08:26.560 --> 0:08:28.520 like a rocket or something had blown past. 0:08:29.400 --> 0:08:32.840 Yeah, that's in the case files that there is signs 0:08:32.920 --> 0:08:35.600 that some of the tops of the trees had been singed. 0:08:35.840 --> 0:08:39.480 It wasn't documented, there isn't photo evidence of it. It 0:08:39.559 --> 0:08:43.720 was kind of more of a passing comment. I'm not 0:08:43.760 --> 0:08:46.640 sure how much to believe that the tops of the 0:08:46.679 --> 0:08:49.360 trees were burned. There were burns on and around the 0:08:49.360 --> 0:08:52.080 tree where they were trying to start the fire. It 0:08:52.080 --> 0:08:53.920 looked like they tried to start fire, and maybe two 0:08:53.960 --> 0:08:58.480 areas at one point there was definitely broken branches on 0:08:58.520 --> 0:09:00.559 the trees where they were trying to snap branches down 0:09:00.640 --> 0:09:03.480 to make this fire. I'm not sure how much to 0:09:03.520 --> 0:09:06.080 believe that the tops of the trees had burnmark. So 0:09:06.679 --> 0:09:09.480 there isn't evidence for it, And I have to say 0:09:10.080 --> 0:09:13.720 I did speak to another gentleman who was a member 0:09:13.760 --> 0:09:18.560 of the search party team, and he both knew the 0:09:18.559 --> 0:09:21.040 Diatlovt team very well. He was friends with them. He 0:09:21.920 --> 0:09:24.160 talked of a story of when he actually danced with 0:09:24.320 --> 0:09:27.120 Xena at a school dance and now he was you know, 0:09:27.200 --> 0:09:31.440 she was by many accounts as she was very admired 0:09:31.480 --> 0:09:34.360 by a lot of the guys, and he was like, 0:09:34.440 --> 0:09:35.920 I got to have a dancer there at a really 0:09:35.960 --> 0:09:38.520 big moment so he knew the hike as well. He 0:09:38.559 --> 0:09:41.280 told me he was actually on a hike at the 0:09:41.360 --> 0:09:44.040 same time in a different part of the euro Mountains, 0:09:44.200 --> 0:09:46.800 so not close enough to be involved or near them, 0:09:47.360 --> 0:09:49.640 but pretty much on the night or around the nights 0:09:49.679 --> 0:09:52.360 of the events that took place with the Diatlovt team, 0:09:52.800 --> 0:09:58.000 he and his team saw basically massive lights firing through 0:09:58.040 --> 0:10:02.439 the sky, and he now them to be ballistic missile tests. 0:10:02.760 --> 0:10:05.840 There was a ballistic missile site some hundreds of klometers 0:10:05.920 --> 0:10:08.280 away from there. He now knows that's what he was 0:10:08.320 --> 0:10:12.199 seeing and he believes that has something to do with it. 0:10:12.440 --> 0:10:16.040 But he was involved in the search team and he 0:10:16.240 --> 0:10:20.240 was telling his friends that, oh, we saw these rockets, 0:10:20.240 --> 0:10:22.120 we saw something in the sky. I think it must 0:10:22.160 --> 0:10:23.760 be that. I think it must be that. I think 0:10:23.800 --> 0:10:26.199 there's a little bit of sort of whispers going on 0:10:26.320 --> 0:10:30.080 about these burned tops of the trees. I certainly haven't 0:10:30.080 --> 0:10:32.480 seen physical documented of evidence of that. 0:10:32.960 --> 0:10:34.959 Well, I mean, and when it could be lightning, right 0:10:34.960 --> 0:10:36.760 when there'd be lightning strikes around. 0:10:36.559 --> 0:10:39.920 There, absolutely feasible. Again, yeah, lightning is possible as well. 0:10:40.040 --> 0:10:43.200 So as a person who doesn't know hasn't gone is 0:10:43.200 --> 0:10:45.320 in depth into this obviously as you have. I was 0:10:45.400 --> 0:10:48.760 just thinking through. Okay, so is it that they all 0:10:49.000 --> 0:10:50.960 are trying to get around this fire with the cedar 0:10:51.040 --> 0:10:54.360 trees to the guys die, they take his clothes and 0:10:54.400 --> 0:10:57.840 head down to the ravine, and then Xena and ury 0:10:58.480 --> 0:11:01.040 or I can't remember who else it was that you said. 0:11:01.320 --> 0:11:03.200 Then they decide, okay, we're going to head back up 0:11:03.240 --> 0:11:05.840 to the tent. Is that how that sequence happens or 0:11:05.840 --> 0:11:09.200 what do people think why people landed where they did? Well? 0:11:09.280 --> 0:11:11.319 Yeah, so I think this is where we're at now. 0:11:11.360 --> 0:11:15.640 We don't know, we don't know what happens, right, So 0:11:16.880 --> 0:11:19.920 the number one theory, I think we can dive into that. 0:11:19.960 --> 0:11:22.439 The number one theory as I see it, certainly if 0:11:22.520 --> 0:11:25.400 you jump on Google and people will say that the 0:11:25.440 --> 0:11:28.319 Outlove Pass has been solved, like we now know what happened. 0:11:28.920 --> 0:11:33.360 Is the big issue was the search party said that 0:11:33.400 --> 0:11:36.120 there's no way an avalanche could have happened to the tent, 0:11:36.200 --> 0:11:40.320 because an avalanche could have explained crushing chest injuries. Why 0:11:40.360 --> 0:11:43.120 they would have panicked, cut the tent, got out, ran away. 0:11:43.440 --> 0:11:46.840 An avalanche could explain this. Now, everyone said initially that 0:11:46.880 --> 0:11:49.320 there was no sign of an avalanche, so it couldn't 0:11:49.320 --> 0:11:53.440 have happened now recently. And it's kind of a bugbear 0:11:53.480 --> 0:11:55.640 of mine is that just after my film came out, 0:11:56.000 --> 0:11:58.319 another team went out there to do a test, and 0:11:58.400 --> 0:12:00.600 it was a Swedish team. They want to test this 0:12:00.679 --> 0:12:04.199 theory that maybe a small avalanche known as a slab 0:12:04.280 --> 0:12:08.560 avalanche could have slid down and just landed onto the tent. 0:12:08.760 --> 0:12:10.960 Now it's in part the way they may have cut 0:12:11.000 --> 0:12:14.640 out the base to lay the tent may have actually 0:12:14.920 --> 0:12:18.120 been cause for a slab avalanche to then fall on 0:12:18.160 --> 0:12:20.680 the tent. To put in some sort of visual context, 0:12:21.040 --> 0:12:23.360 a slab avalanche is closer to you know, when you 0:12:23.400 --> 0:12:25.120 see a house got loads of snow on it and 0:12:25.160 --> 0:12:27.360 someone knocks the roof and a big the whole roof 0:12:27.400 --> 0:12:30.640 of snowfalls down. That's closer to what a slab avalanche is. 0:12:30.880 --> 0:12:34.200 It falls a few meters, slides onto the bit where 0:12:34.240 --> 0:12:37.840 they would cut out, and lands on that section. So 0:12:37.880 --> 0:12:41.600 it's nothing like these big mountainous avalanches that roll down 0:12:41.640 --> 0:12:44.640 the hill. This is like a slab a few meters 0:12:44.720 --> 0:12:49.520 slide dumps onto the area. So it's feasible. These team 0:12:49.559 --> 0:12:53.200 went out and they proved that a slab avalanche could 0:12:53.600 --> 0:12:56.560 have happened on this very shallow gradient where the tent 0:12:56.800 --> 0:13:00.360 was parked, and they proved that. Okay, it turns out 0:13:00.360 --> 0:13:04.640 slab avalanches can happen very easily on small gradients, so 0:13:04.679 --> 0:13:06.840 that they then ran away with that, Well, we've now 0:13:06.920 --> 0:13:10.000 figured it out. It obviously must have been an avalanche, 0:13:10.000 --> 0:13:13.600 the slab avalanche. That's why the hikers the rescue teams 0:13:13.640 --> 0:13:16.600 didn't recognize it as an avalanche, because it was just 0:13:16.640 --> 0:13:19.959 a small section that landed on the tent. The problem 0:13:20.000 --> 0:13:23.880 with that for me is that it's lots of problems, 0:13:24.080 --> 0:13:26.760 But the biggest problem is if that happened, the hikers 0:13:26.760 --> 0:13:29.880 would have known what it was and they wouldn't necessarily 0:13:29.920 --> 0:13:33.240 have then ran away from because it's not that huge, 0:13:33.280 --> 0:13:37.320 mountainous avalanche. It's just one slab sliding down, and so 0:13:37.360 --> 0:13:41.240 they would have recognized what that was quite quickly and realized, okay, 0:13:41.600 --> 0:13:43.360 we can make the best of this. But at leastly 0:13:43.360 --> 0:13:45.839 scrab our boots and jackets. So it doesn't explain why 0:13:45.840 --> 0:13:48.439 they ran and left their stuff. It also doesn't explain why, 0:13:48.960 --> 0:13:51.520 really there was hardly any snow found on the tent. 0:13:51.600 --> 0:13:55.160 It was a dusting of windblown snow, not a huge slab. 0:13:55.200 --> 0:13:58.160 It wasn't buried, and even the front tent pole was 0:13:58.200 --> 0:14:01.680 still standing, so if the slab came down, it would 0:14:01.679 --> 0:14:05.440 have only covered half of the tenth at best. So 0:14:06.040 --> 0:14:10.440 again it doesn't explain why these experienced hikers would have 0:14:10.480 --> 0:14:14.080 then ran away. And more importantly, and I come back 0:14:14.160 --> 0:14:17.120 to Rustam who was found halfway on the hill with 0:14:17.200 --> 0:14:21.000 an injury that he couldn't have walked from. And also 0:14:21.280 --> 0:14:25.160 the two hikers with the chest injuries. If a slab 0:14:25.200 --> 0:14:28.120 had fallen on them at this tent and crushed their chests, 0:14:28.440 --> 0:14:31.440 they didn't walk for an hour down the hill. So 0:14:31.520 --> 0:14:34.320 the slab avalanche to me is you know, you go 0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.880 to Google, it'll say the alapaster sold. No, I'm sorry 0:14:37.880 --> 0:14:42.520 it isn't. They proved that this can happen in theory, 0:14:42.600 --> 0:14:44.120 but it doesn't explain the injuries. 0:14:44.520 --> 0:14:48.240 Isn't that what the Russian government had said initially wasn't 0:14:48.240 --> 0:14:51.120 there at their conclusion in nineteen sixty or whenever they 0:14:51.400 --> 0:14:52.520 finished the investigation. 0:14:53.200 --> 0:14:56.600 So they tried to, but there was too many experienced 0:14:56.720 --> 0:15:00.640 members of the search team had actually said no, there's 0:15:00.680 --> 0:15:03.080 no sign of an avalanche here, and then they were 0:15:03.120 --> 0:15:05.400 aware of what a slab avalanche was back then, and 0:15:05.640 --> 0:15:08.960 that was suggested, but it wasn't really any evidence for 0:15:09.000 --> 0:15:12.400 it even then. No, the closing of the case is 0:15:12.480 --> 0:15:16.560 actually a really unusual event. A lot of the search 0:15:16.640 --> 0:15:20.320 party teams, who were now discussing seeing lights in the 0:15:20.360 --> 0:15:24.080 sky and rocket launches and stuff like this, were now 0:15:24.400 --> 0:15:27.600 starting to point the blame back at the Soviet military. 0:15:27.680 --> 0:15:30.120 And that's still very much The Russians I spoke to 0:15:30.640 --> 0:15:34.280 still believe very much it was the Soviet military test 0:15:34.400 --> 0:15:36.520 gone wrong, and I can talk about that a bit 0:15:36.520 --> 0:15:39.160 more in a moment. But the pressure then was on 0:15:39.240 --> 0:15:44.200 the lead investigator at the time. He spoke about this 0:15:44.240 --> 0:15:47.360 some years afterwards, he said, I was told closed this 0:15:47.520 --> 0:15:51.000 case down. We found all the hikers, now, doesn't matter 0:15:51.040 --> 0:15:53.800 what's happened to them, just closed the case down. Now 0:15:54.360 --> 0:15:58.520 Now people say that's evidence that the Russian military must 0:15:58.520 --> 0:16:02.600 have been involved. Opposite. I think the conversation was now 0:16:02.640 --> 0:16:04.600 talking about and remember we're in the middle of the 0:16:04.640 --> 0:16:08.280 Cold War. The conversation is now talking about the location 0:16:08.440 --> 0:16:11.280 and position of where missiles are being fired in tests. 0:16:11.720 --> 0:16:14.160 They just didn't want that talked about. It may have 0:16:14.200 --> 0:16:16.840 had nothing to do with the Diatloff case. They just 0:16:16.880 --> 0:16:19.400 didn't want these conversations to grow and grow and grow, 0:16:19.840 --> 0:16:23.640 So they told the investigator close the case down now. 0:16:23.840 --> 0:16:27.720 And so the investigator closed the case with this now 0:16:27.960 --> 0:16:30.600 famous line, which is the title of my film. He 0:16:30.720 --> 0:16:36.040 said that the events that unfolded were from an unknown 0:16:36.160 --> 0:16:40.720 compelling force. And the official verdict as to what killed 0:16:40.720 --> 0:16:44.520 the hikers for all nine of them, officially it was hypothermia. 0:16:48.320 --> 0:16:52.600 So tell me, you know what is for you? After 0:16:52.640 --> 0:16:54.680 doing all of this research, talking to all of these 0:16:54.680 --> 0:16:57.960 different experts, where do you land on all of this? 0:16:58.680 --> 0:17:01.440 Right? So I wanted to look into kind of some 0:17:01.480 --> 0:17:04.520 of these series. Now there's there's another one. I'll quickly 0:17:04.560 --> 0:17:06.920 mentioned we spend too much time on it. But there's 0:17:06.920 --> 0:17:09.879 another story about a yeti, a Russian YETI attack. 0:17:10.400 --> 0:17:12.280 And no, it's spent a lot of time on that, 0:17:12.440 --> 0:17:12.920 all right. 0:17:13.000 --> 0:17:16.000 And this one, this is actually, if anything, was one 0:17:16.000 --> 0:17:17.360 of the ones that made me want to go out 0:17:17.359 --> 0:17:19.719 there because I, I like, I'm open minded, but I 0:17:19.720 --> 0:17:23.919 don't believe that this happened, and there's a solid reason 0:17:24.000 --> 0:17:28.880 for this. They the hikers would keep another diary journal, 0:17:29.200 --> 0:17:33.280 and in this journal they make like a fun newspaper, 0:17:33.520 --> 0:17:35.800 like a fake newspaper report, and they would do it 0:17:35.840 --> 0:17:38.880 to make say things like today it's found out that 0:17:39.440 --> 0:17:41.520 and one of their com one of their headline stories 0:17:41.600 --> 0:17:44.640 was today it has found out that the Russian Yeti 0:17:44.840 --> 0:17:48.800 lives and he's been seen. And I think they're joking around, 0:17:48.920 --> 0:17:53.440 because earlier on around this time, there was some photos 0:17:53.480 --> 0:17:55.879 taken of one of their one of the members of 0:17:55.880 --> 0:17:58.399 the team. I think it was probably Ross dem Is, 0:17:58.800 --> 0:18:02.480 goofing around in snow and there's an outer focused picture 0:18:02.480 --> 0:18:05.720 that looks like this humanoid figure. It's clearly a guy 0:18:05.920 --> 0:18:08.560 just goofing around in the snow, and it's a bit blurry, 0:18:09.160 --> 0:18:10.800 and I think they must have been joking. Oh, he 0:18:10.840 --> 0:18:12.800 looks like a Yeti. So at the end of the night, 0:18:12.880 --> 0:18:15.080 they're having some banter in the tent, they're all having 0:18:15.119 --> 0:18:17.480 a laugh and they write up in this no, oh, 0:18:17.680 --> 0:18:20.119 and today we found out the Russian the yetti exists. 0:18:21.080 --> 0:18:24.159 The people I spoke to who speak Russian read it. 0:18:24.600 --> 0:18:27.000 They could read the tone in this. This was a joke. 0:18:27.040 --> 0:18:30.600 They're having fun, they're goofing around. But unfortunately, you know, 0:18:30.680 --> 0:18:34.359 this gets interpreted the wrong way. That one picture people 0:18:34.440 --> 0:18:36.520 still want to believe isn't a human It clearly is. 0:18:37.359 --> 0:18:41.000 And so now some people say the Russian YETI did it, 0:18:41.040 --> 0:18:45.520 And clearly that comes from a document that they were 0:18:45.560 --> 0:18:47.439 writing for fun. So that was just a joke. So 0:18:47.640 --> 0:18:49.680 I think we can move on from the YETI. Also, 0:18:49.720 --> 0:18:53.959 there's no injuries shaped like any sort of animal claw 0:18:54.200 --> 0:18:57.080 prints around them, so again which applies to bears, there's 0:18:57.119 --> 0:18:59.879 no sign of a bear attack. There's no claw marks 0:19:00.119 --> 0:19:02.560 any of the bodies. The clothes weren't torn in a 0:19:02.560 --> 0:19:05.800 way consistent with of an animal attack, so we can 0:19:05.800 --> 0:19:07.960 get rid of those ones. So now we come down 0:19:08.000 --> 0:19:13.119 to so did this rocket explode and did did this 0:19:13.240 --> 0:19:15.520 rocket the lights in the sky that people have been seeing, 0:19:15.880 --> 0:19:19.280 did this fall on them? Did this, you know, injure 0:19:19.280 --> 0:19:24.080 them in some way. There was no evidence of any debris, 0:19:24.280 --> 0:19:29.119 any explosion, anything in the vicinity of the hikers, So 0:19:29.240 --> 0:19:31.920 there was no casings of a missile or anything. So 0:19:32.440 --> 0:19:36.160 nothing struck them. There was no you know, some people 0:19:36.240 --> 0:19:39.800 wanted to say the crushed chests could have been from 0:19:39.880 --> 0:19:43.520 this the impact force, but they would have found some evidence. 0:19:43.520 --> 0:19:46.720 And I remember a huge part of the search team 0:19:47.000 --> 0:19:49.240 are both military, but a huge part of them are 0:19:49.280 --> 0:19:53.280 actually fellow student members. So these students weren't sticking to 0:19:53.359 --> 0:19:55.840 the script, and they were coming home and telling people 0:19:55.840 --> 0:19:58.840 what they saw and what they were thinking. So if 0:19:58.840 --> 0:20:01.640 someone had found a piece of ro then it would 0:20:01.680 --> 0:20:03.840 have gone out. There were no secrets. There was a 0:20:03.920 --> 0:20:07.080 huge group of people all talking about everything they saw. 0:20:07.560 --> 0:20:11.400 So yeah, there's no sign of rocket hit them. There's 0:20:11.520 --> 0:20:18.439 talk of an aerial weapon that caused a sonic or 0:20:18.480 --> 0:20:21.080 a kind of an explosion that caused the shock wave 0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:25.399 but left no debris. I mean, we're in the realms 0:20:25.400 --> 0:20:29.840 of sci fi at this point. This doesn't exist and 0:20:29.920 --> 0:20:34.240 also doesn't explain they walked from their tent. They walked 0:20:34.240 --> 0:20:37.840 to another area. So okay, so we've kind of got 0:20:37.880 --> 0:20:40.440 through some of the big ones at that point. So 0:20:41.080 --> 0:20:44.400 I think the only evidence we have is to strongly 0:20:44.520 --> 0:20:48.480 look at the autopsy report and the types of injuries 0:20:48.720 --> 0:20:52.960 that were found on the hikers, because this explained something. 0:20:53.119 --> 0:20:55.639 So I really looked into this, and that's why I 0:20:55.640 --> 0:20:58.880 wanted to speak to, you know, the retired coroner from 0:20:58.960 --> 0:21:03.440 California spoke to a retired FBI agent, a gentleman called 0:21:03.480 --> 0:21:07.760 Mick Fennerty who's famous for being involved with a number 0:21:07.800 --> 0:21:10.879 of interesting cases, including a big part of the Elizabeth 0:21:11.000 --> 0:21:14.520 Smart kidnapping case. He was very involved and instrumental in 0:21:14.520 --> 0:21:17.199 that case. I got to speak to him, and you know, 0:21:17.280 --> 0:21:20.800 they got to look at the case reports, and certainly 0:21:20.840 --> 0:21:25.200 the coroner, chap Ken Holmes, really reviewed the autopsy report 0:21:25.480 --> 0:21:27.919 and he states and clearly states in my film, he 0:21:27.960 --> 0:21:32.719 says he cannot see a version of any of this 0:21:33.240 --> 0:21:37.280 predominantly based on the types of injuries and the spacing 0:21:37.359 --> 0:21:41.359 of where they were all found that other people were 0:21:41.400 --> 0:21:44.119 not involved in this. So basically feels that other people 0:21:44.480 --> 0:21:47.760 were involved in this. So if we look at the 0:21:47.800 --> 0:21:53.720 first four that were found had injuries consistent with punching, 0:21:54.280 --> 0:22:00.639 defensive wounds on the forearms from parrying blows, strikes to 0:22:00.720 --> 0:22:03.920 the face, the lips and the eyes that had been struck. 0:22:04.720 --> 0:22:08.600 That was very consistent with physical violence of fight. The 0:22:08.640 --> 0:22:12.959 two gentlemen that were found by the cedar tree the 0:22:13.000 --> 0:22:16.000 burns around their body. I don't go into this in 0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:19.440 the in the film because I don't have solid evidence 0:22:19.440 --> 0:22:22.320 for this, but there is a Russian the most senior 0:22:22.400 --> 0:22:26.920 Russian coroner, a forensic scientist who's been on Russian TV 0:22:27.000 --> 0:22:29.680 and talked about this a lot. He openly has said 0:22:29.760 --> 0:22:34.520 he believes those injuries to have been torture burns. He 0:22:34.600 --> 0:22:37.880 believes they were they were inflicted by other people. I 0:22:38.000 --> 0:22:40.520 was unable to get that interview, so I'm only taking 0:22:40.560 --> 0:22:43.239 that off of what I've seen on my research. So 0:22:43.520 --> 0:22:45.239 I didn't put that in the film. But so all 0:22:45.240 --> 0:22:47.280 of a sudden, we've got this idea of Okay, we're 0:22:47.280 --> 0:22:50.320