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Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace.

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Speaker 2: A neighbor finds a gorgeous young wife, Caitlin, just thirty six, pulverized.

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Speaker 2: That's the medical examiner's words.

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Speaker 1: Not mine.

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Speaker 2: Pulverized in the stairwell of a tax lawyer. Her foot

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Speaker 2: gone missing. Now, how do you lose your foot in

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Speaker 2: a fall down the stairs? I'm curious. I'm Nancy Grace,

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Speaker 2: and this is Crime Stories. I want to thank you

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Speaker 2: for being with us.

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Speaker 3: From the outside, Caitlyn Tracy and Adam Beckering appeared to

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Speaker 3: be a typical couple from Chicago, navigating the ups and

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Speaker 3: downs of dating before eventually tying the knot. But beneath

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Speaker 3: the surface, a dark and troubling reality was unfolding.

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Speaker 2: It is excruciating hearing her nine to one one call.

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Speaker 1: What is the truth?

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Speaker 2: How did Caitlin sustain so many injuries going.

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Speaker 1: Down that stairwell?

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Speaker 2: And how did she lose a foot in the process.

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Speaker 1: I want you to hear this. Just talk, please, please,

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Speaker 1: we just talk before you we are Can.

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Speaker 4: We just talk right here?

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Speaker 1: Just talk right here.

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Speaker 5: Hold on, people, seriously, hold on.

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Speaker 1: Wait that is from a prior incident.

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Speaker 2: They just love how police and yeah, I'm talking about

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Speaker 2: you John Bueler, former Detective Modesto, PD refer to an

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Speaker 2: outright attack as an incident that was a prior incident.

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Speaker 2: And you saw that body cam footage from our friends

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Speaker 2: ABC seven Chicago.

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Speaker 1: You know, Bueller.

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Speaker 2: Interesting did you hear him as they've got him down

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Speaker 2: on the ground saying get out of my house?

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Speaker 1: You know what?

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Speaker 2: I'm surprised the cops didn't give him a little spanking

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Speaker 2: for that.

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Speaker 1: And then he goes on and he.

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Speaker 2: Says, baby, baby, help me to Caitlin like she's gonna

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Speaker 2: call the whole thing off, and this, can't we just talk?

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Speaker 2: Can't we talk about this? The time for talking was past, Bueller.

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Speaker 1: And I'm leading to if he would carry on like.

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Speaker 2: That with the police, what would he do behind closed

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Speaker 2: doors with Caitlin.

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Speaker 6: Well, there's many things that he probably did but between

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Speaker 6: or behind closed doors that will never know about because

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Speaker 6: the incidents that they do have recorded and that they

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Speaker 6: have documented in police reports are probably the tip of

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Speaker 6: the iceberg. There are many calls that probably were never made.

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Speaker 6: There were excuses that she made for things that happened,

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Speaker 6: and maybe bruises that people saw and she didn't want

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Speaker 6: to reveal anything, but He's a typical narcissistic, violent guy

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Speaker 6: that cops to deal with all the time. He's probably

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Speaker 6: a smooth talker at a point. He might have been

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Speaker 6: under the influence at this time. But this is where

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Speaker 6: the body cameras are really great because it does keep

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Speaker 6: the cops in line because guys like this are frustrating.

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Speaker 6: You certainly want to give some extra tune up, but

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Speaker 6: you can't legally and ethically. So it worked out good

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Speaker 6: that they took him in custody, but unfortunately she was

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Speaker 6: willing to go.

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Speaker 1: Back to him.

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Speaker 2: She went back to him, and I'm sad to say

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Speaker 2: that there were greatly, greatly reduced charges, which seems to

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Speaker 2: be the way doctor Cheryl Eric joining usnowned clinical forensic

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Speaker 2: psychologists specializing in traumat recovery. You just heard former detective

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Speaker 2: soopd say that he the tax lawyer in a very

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Speaker 2: prominent law firm in Chicago. How they couldn't see behind

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Speaker 2: his facade, I don't know. But you heard Bueller state

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Speaker 2: he was a smooth talker, and Bueller is right. Did

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Speaker 2: you hear him trying to make hail Mary say there

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Speaker 2: at the end.

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Speaker 1: Hey baby baby, can we just talk about this? Did

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Speaker 1: you hear that.

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Speaker 7: I did hear that, And it is not uncommon for

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Speaker 7: abusers to have a false self that they show to

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Speaker 7: everybody else. And then as you're saying, behind closed doors,

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Speaker 7: everything all bets are off. This is about a cycle

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Speaker 7: that is designed to have coercive control over her, and

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Speaker 7: so he will do things to get his way into

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Speaker 7: control her. And this is really an example of of

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Speaker 7: how domestic violence can happen even to beautiful, successful.

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Speaker 1: Smart women.

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Speaker 7: And you know, some people may wonder why does somebody stay,

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Speaker 7: But I think it's really important to understand she did

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Speaker 7: do the right thing. She reported, She called the police,

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Speaker 7: She told people what was happening. And the most dangerous

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Speaker 7: time in domestic violence is when the victim tries to

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Speaker 7: leave the abuser, because that is the moment when he

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Speaker 7: feels he's losing control of her. And so you know,

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Speaker 7: this is this is something that it often takes multiple

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Speaker 7: times to get out of a situation, but the most

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Speaker 7: lethal time is when she tries to leave. And there's

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Speaker 7: also a really big red flag in this case that

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Speaker 7: I wish more people were aware of when it comes

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Speaker 7: to domestic violence, and that is past incidents of non

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Speaker 7: lethal strangulation. When an abuser has grabbed a woman by

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Speaker 7: the neck during a past attack, he is seven hundred

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Speaker 7: and fifty times more likely to kill her in the

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Speaker 7: next year.

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Speaker 1: Repay that police. That's a new statistic to me.

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Speaker 7: If an abuser has ever grabbed his victim by the

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Speaker 7: neck and used strangulation, which is empower and control tactic

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Speaker 7: to control her breathing, he is seven hundred and fifty

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Speaker 7: times more likely to commit homicide against that woman within

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Speaker 7: the year. And actually, if he has access to firearms firearms,

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Speaker 7: that's justistic goes to above one thousand percent.

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Speaker 2: Joining us is doctor Cheryl Eric Guys, I want you

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Speaker 2: to imagine. Look, I'm going to show you some more bodycam,

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Speaker 2: but I want you to imagine if he will do

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Speaker 2: this in front of police and talk to them this way,

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Speaker 2: what will he do with Caitlin behind closed doors for twenty.

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Speaker 8: Five Wait a wauite wait wait wait wait wait wait

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Speaker 8: wait before wait course, seriously, you can't search me?

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Speaker 1: Do you get our search me?

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Speaker 9: That's illegal.

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Speaker 1: That's a.

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Speaker 5: That's an illegal search. You know what is that's an

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Speaker 5: legal search?

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Speaker 10: Get off me?

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Speaker 1: Get off me?

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Speaker 8: You know that's illegal.

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Speaker 11: Let go my hands for what.

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Speaker 8: Please let me talk to you over your pocket.

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Speaker 2: Oh the yelling, screaming, the snotting, and in that vein.

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Speaker 2: Let me go straight out to veteran trial lawyer joining us,

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Speaker 2: Philip Debay, l a County Public Defender's office with an

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Speaker 2: extensive history of trying cases.

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Speaker 1: Debay, thank you for being with us. Now.

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Speaker 2: Hobby that we're seeing is a lawyer and he is

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Speaker 2: a very well respected lawyer and a big law firm.

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Speaker 1: I believe he was a partner in the law firm.

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Speaker 2: They can see through his facade and apparently he needs

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Speaker 2: to go back to researching tax documents because that's not

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Speaker 2: the law. You can absolutely search someone pursue it to

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Speaker 2: a lawful arrest.

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Speaker 12: Yeah, of course you can.

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Speaker 13: And he was under arrest or a domestic violence and

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Speaker 13: you don't even need a warrant for it. If there

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Speaker 13: is a call for help in a domestic violence situation,

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Speaker 13: they can just take you in and search you an

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Speaker 13: incident to that arrest. That includes your pockets, your hands.

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Speaker 13: They can patch you down. If you have any containers

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Speaker 13: like a briefcase or a tope bag, yes, they can

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Speaker 13: sort of rifle through that as well, just to make

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Speaker 13: sure you're not packing any weapons or have any sharp objects.

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Speaker 1: Hey, dB, check out those biceps.

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Speaker 2: I wonder what a right hook would feel like one

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Speaker 2: from one of those guns. Check out those biceps on

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Speaker 2: this guy. He's no stranger to the gym. Oh my goodness,

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Speaker 2: he's still slinging his body around in the back seat. Hey, debate,

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Speaker 2: you ever been in the back seat of a cruiser.

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Speaker 2: They're disgusting because people like this POC technical legal term.

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Speaker 1: They vomit back there. They defecate on purpose.

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Speaker 2: They urinate, they spit, They do it all in the

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Speaker 2: back seat of these guys cruiser. I mean, at APD

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Speaker 2: you just pull up behind the station and there were

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Speaker 2: hoses back there. Just open the cruiser door and start

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Speaker 2: hosing out. I mean, can you imagine hosing out in

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Speaker 2: the back seat of what your Porsche or Mercedes, I

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Speaker 2: don't know, hose out the cruiser like it was a

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Speaker 2: garage because the people like Kim Can I see that again,

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Speaker 2: him twisting himself around, throwing himself, spitting, snotting, screaming, Yeah,

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Speaker 2: good times.

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Speaker 1: What about that debate?

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Speaker 13: Well, the main reason why they hose it down is

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Speaker 13: to make sure that suspects from subsequent arrests are not

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Speaker 13: tied to any DNA or any other trace evidence from

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Speaker 13: a prior suspect. So you want to make sure that

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Speaker 13: the car is completely antiseptic and you're not bought up.

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Speaker 2: Namely one time, one one case where DNA was taken

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Speaker 2: out of the back seat of a police cruiser and

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Speaker 2: used in court.

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Speaker 13: Not DNA, but dope. Dope was found between the seats,

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Speaker 13: and he just said DNA.

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Speaker 1: Did he not just say DNA? He said DNA?

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Speaker 10: All right?

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Speaker 12: Any evidence used against a client.

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Speaker 13: They found METS stuff between the cushions in the back

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Speaker 13: of a squad car. They tried to introduce it against

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Speaker 13: a client of mine, but I was able to get

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Speaker 13: all the call logs from the previous arrest in that

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Speaker 13: car and show that.

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Speaker 1: Right, Hey, what is Mike? Go is Mike?

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Speaker 2: This is not a debate infomercial, Okay about how you

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Speaker 2: saved You're math client. So never has anyone you know,

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Speaker 2: I'm going a bueler on that. Did you see the

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Speaker 2: way this guy is carrying on belligerate aggressive, kicking out

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Speaker 2: at the police, struggling with them, threatening them, and then

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Speaker 2: he gets in the backseat of the cruiser and almost

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Speaker 2: cannot be contained. Now, can you school debate of why

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Speaker 2: you have to hose out in the back of your

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Speaker 2: cruiser after.

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Speaker 1: Putting this tax lawyer back there.

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Speaker 6: Well, we did that because guys would vomit in there.

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Speaker 6: Maybe they were defecating or they urinated back there, and

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Speaker 6: you don't want to introduce somebody that maybe doesn't need

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Speaker 6: to belong in that situation that you know, maybe a

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Speaker 6: drunk driver that's a regular member of the society. You

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Speaker 6: don't want to expose them to that stuff. So we'd

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Speaker 6: post things out like that. Now, he does have a

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Speaker 6: little bit of a point on cross contamination and if it.

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Speaker 2: Was nice, criminal defendants should not have to sit in

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Speaker 2: a pile of this guy's poop. Hey, speaking of poop,

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Speaker 2: that reminds me, isn't it true? And I hate this

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Speaker 2: to be your very first question straight out to Harriet Alexander,

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Speaker 2: the senior features writer Dailymail dot Com.

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Speaker 1: Which is awesome, Harriet.

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Speaker 2: Isn't it true that on one occasion, this guy, this

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Speaker 2: tax lawyer, had to go I guess and give blood.

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Speaker 1: Samples or check in as part of being out on bond.

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Speaker 4: Yeah.

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Speaker 2: There he is in his suit and tie at some

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Speaker 2: clinic and he there's no nice way to say it

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Speaker 2: he crapped the floor on purpose. This is true. It

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Speaker 2: has This is absolutely true.

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Speaker 9: It happened. It happened.

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Speaker 14: So this was when he was he was facing charges

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Speaker 14: for domestic violence and he was a he was required

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Speaker 14: to appear multiple times for bond hearings, and he had

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Speaker 14: quite a long track.

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Speaker 9: Record of misbehaving. We could say in.

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Speaker 14: Those in those incidences, one of those, as you say,

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Speaker 14: one of those, as you.

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Speaker 2: Say, was misbehaving my objection, my rear end, misbehaving the

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Speaker 2: woman she's found at the foot of him, his the

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Speaker 2: law partner in the tax division stairwell without a foot.

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Speaker 2: All of these incidents are not misbehaving. You're pushing me

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Speaker 2: right over the edge, Harriot.

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Speaker 15: And interestingly, you were, you know, you were talking about

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Speaker 15: his his arrogance and in that arrest right in that

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Speaker 15: that video and the fact that he has away with

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Speaker 15: words that he's he's trying to convince the officers saying

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Speaker 15: you can't do.

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Speaker 9: This to me.

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Speaker 14: Well, it's interesting because actually he has four with that too. Previously,

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Speaker 14: she tried to get a restraining order against him.

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Speaker 16: She went through all of the documentation, but he pushed

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Speaker 16: back on it.

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Speaker 9: He threatened her with defamation and so she dropped it.

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Speaker 9: So actually there was never a restraining order taken out

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Speaker 9: against him.

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Speaker 1: Did you say he had form?

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Speaker 14: Yes, yes, absolutely absolutely in terms of four the Brits

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Speaker 14: car at form.

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Speaker 2: Did the Brits carl having a rap sheet? That's what

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Speaker 2: we say here? Do they call that form?

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Speaker 14: Well, I wouldn't know what the technical term is for

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Speaker 14: weaseling your way out of a charge, for pressuring someone

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Speaker 14: to drop the charges, but certainly he's he's got previous

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Speaker 14: on this.

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Speaker 2: Guys, I want to look back one more time at

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Speaker 2: the video we just showed you where he tries to

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Speaker 2: throw around legal.

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Speaker 1: Theories this is an illeg arrest, and then when.

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Speaker 2: That doesn't work, he tries to get his wife back.

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Speaker 1: Please let me talk to you. Let me talk to you.

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Speaker 1: Maybe maybe listen what you're talking about it plea.

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Speaker 8: Wait wait wait wait wait wait, seriously, I listen to me.

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Speaker 1: You can't search me? Do you get our search me?

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Speaker 5: That's illegal, that's all search. That's an illegal search. You

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Speaker 5: know what this is, that's an legal search. Get off me,

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Speaker 5: tell me, get off me.

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Speaker 8: You know that's illegal.

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Speaker 11: Let go my hands for what.

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Speaker 16: You?

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Speaker 5: Please let me talk to you over.

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Speaker 2: Your podcast I guess legal arrests and illegal arrests are

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Speaker 2: not covered in the tax code. Guys, there's more. There's more,

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Speaker 2: and I haven't even gotten to the state of Taitlin's body.

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Speaker 2: I'm gonna have to bring in a medical examiner, doctor

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Speaker 2: coin for that.

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Speaker 1: Listen to this.

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Speaker 5: Yeah, we just.

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Speaker 11: No, Adam, you're under arrest, Okay, like I told you,

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Speaker 11: you have a felony warrant already from a previous incident here. Okay,

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Speaker 11: there's not there is and I know about it. I

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Speaker 11: don't know why I just hold her?

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Speaker 4: No?

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Speaker 1: Why does she not like him?

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Speaker 16: Out?

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Speaker 1: You're under arrest in the vae.

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Speaker 2: Right, But I'm not sure if the control room misplayed something.

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Speaker 2: But back to Harriet Alexander, senior features writer, dailymail dot Com.

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Speaker 2: Did I just hear him say, can I just hold her?

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Speaker 2: I want to give her a r egg?

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Speaker 1: What right?

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Speaker 9: Right?

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Speaker 1: I mean again?

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Speaker 14: I think it just shows that the brazen arrogance of

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Speaker 14: this man, that he thinks that she would.

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Speaker 9: Want to be held by him after.

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Speaker 14: The police are called for the domestic violence. It shows

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Speaker 14: that he thinks that he is above the law, that

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Speaker 14: he's very confident, and that he feels that he can

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Speaker 14: work his way around this.

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Speaker 9: I mean, as he has done in the past.

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Speaker 2: Crime stories with Nancy Grace, doctor Cheryl Eric with us.

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Speaker 2: I want to hold her. I just want to give

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Speaker 2: her a hug. I'm starting to think No, no, I almost.

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Speaker 1: Said he's bipolar.

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Speaker 2: He's not by polar This is just another one of

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Speaker 2: his tactics, because abusers have so many tactics to keep

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Speaker 2: getting away with it. I'm sure his a law for

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Speaker 2: law firm, huge firm. Dwayne Morris is so proud tonight.

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Speaker 2: So I don't think he's bipolar, because how could he

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Speaker 2: pull off being a veteran tax attorney and fighting his

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Speaker 2: way out major is that fighting his way up to being.

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Speaker 1: A partner in a huge law firm.

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Speaker 7: He likes to be in control. He cannot handle it

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Speaker 7: when he doesn't have the upper hand. And what you're

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Speaker 7: seeing with a fighting with the police officers and with

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Speaker 7: everything else and him trying to give them orders, is

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Speaker 7: him needing to try to maintain this sense of having

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Speaker 7: the upper hand. As far as wanting to hold her,

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Speaker 7: She's not human to him. He's not thinking about her feelings.

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Speaker 7: She's an object for him to control and possess. This

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Speaker 7: is my wife, I want to hug from her. I

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Speaker 7: want to act like everything is fine, you will do

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Speaker 7: what I say. That's where he's coming from. All of

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Speaker 7: this is about power and control.

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Speaker 2: It's all about vs D. Doctor Gerrett. Can I tell

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Speaker 2: you where Dwayne Mars has offices? Wait for Atlanta, Austin, Baltimore,

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Speaker 2: Boca Ratone, Boston, Chicago, Dallas, Fort Worth, Hanoi, she Men City, Houston, Vegas, London,

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Speaker 2: Los Angeles, Miami, memr New York, Jersey, Philly, Pittsburgh, San Diego,

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Speaker 2: San Francisco, Shanghai, Silicon Valley, South Jersey, Sydney, Singapore.

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Speaker 1: DC, and Wilmington. And he's a partner.

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Speaker 2: So what I'm saying the reason I told you that,

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Speaker 2: doctor Cheryl is because he had a facade like no other.

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Speaker 2: That from redfin is their half a million dollar penthouse,

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Speaker 2: a luxury apartment. They also had a beautiful home on

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Speaker 2: Lake Michigan, and there they built this seemingly perfect life together.

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Speaker 1: So I don't.

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Speaker 2: Understand why rich people can't be happy their rent is paid.

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Speaker 1: Look at the sports cars, the luxury cars.

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Speaker 2: Here is the one home. I guess that's the one

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Speaker 2: on Lake Michigan. Beautiful and they're dragging it kind of

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Speaker 2: mars the picture of him being dragged out by the

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Speaker 2: cops on the right. But I don't get why rich

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Speaker 2: people with all their sports cars and their luxury high

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Speaker 2: rise looking out, you know, on the lake, and why

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Speaker 2: can't they be happy? And how did he fool so

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Speaker 2: many people? Hey, doctor Cheryl. When I volunteered for nine

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Speaker 2: years at the Better Women's Center on the hotline, there

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Speaker 2: was a mayor's wife that called in routinely after abuse.

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Speaker 2: She never went public, she never reported it. But it

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Speaker 2: reminds me of this because he had to fool all

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Speaker 2: those law partners in all of those offices all around

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Speaker 2: the world.

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Speaker 1: How do you do it?

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Speaker 7: It's such a waste, isn't it, Because it could be

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Speaker 7: such a beautiful life success and you know, power and

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Speaker 7: luxury and all of these things. But mental health and

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Speaker 7: wealth are not necessarily correlated. And unfortunately we can see

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Speaker 7: this kind of violence and abuse and splitting an inability

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Speaker 7: to be able to enjoy and have a productive life

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Speaker 7: even when you have all these other strengths. We see

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Speaker 7: this in all communities, including the very wealthy, and including

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Speaker 7: people who seem to have it all.

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Speaker 11: Yeah, wese, just go on hold lesage. No, Adam, you're

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Speaker 11: under arrest. Okay, like I told you, you have a

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Speaker 11: felony warrant already from a previous incident here. Okay, there's

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Speaker 11: not there is I know about it. I don't know

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Speaker 11: why I just hold her to before? Why does she

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Speaker 11: not like them?

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Speaker 17: Out?

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Speaker 11: You're arrest in the vaca of ours no Haylen.

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Speaker 3: Tracy believed she had found her soulmate, but their marriage

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Speaker 3: soon turned into a nightmare. As domestic violence shattered their relationship.

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Speaker 3: Kaitlyn filed for a protection order.

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Speaker 2: Caitlin found quote pulverized at the bottom stairwell of a

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Speaker 2: prominent tax attorney in a world wide law firm. How

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Speaker 2: he fooled them for all those years? I don't know,

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Speaker 2: I mean, Debay, I know that you like I was,

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Speaker 2: as a prosecutor more of a freelance gunslinger. You know,

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Speaker 2: you take on a case, you give it all you've got,

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Speaker 2: and then you move on to the next case. Unlike

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Speaker 2: working at a law firm, which I would find excruciating,

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Speaker 2: the billable hours, the sucking up. Uh could you explain

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Speaker 2: to viewers or listeners that don't know how hard it

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Speaker 2: is to make partner at one of these giant firms.

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Speaker 2: I mean they're working literally one hundred hour weeks sometimes

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Speaker 2: to get all the way up to partner. When they

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Speaker 2: get there, it's a lot of handshaking, smiling and socializing.

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Speaker 2: But that said, you know, rain making, but getting there

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Speaker 2: is really hard to bey.

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Speaker 13: And as competitive as the problem because all the associate

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Speaker 13: attorneys all aspire to partnership, and the partner track is very,

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Speaker 13: very difficult to achieve. First of all, you are required,

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Speaker 13: usually not always, to build a minimum of nineteen hundred

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Speaker 13: or two thousand working hours per year, and when you

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Speaker 13: do the match sometimes it could come out to between

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Speaker 13: forty five and fifty hours a week just to keep

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Speaker 13: your job. And if you want to make a little more,

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Speaker 13: you have to build above and beyond that. And certainly

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Speaker 13: if you want to get on the partner track, you're

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Speaker 13: going to have to build maybe one and a half

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Speaker 13: times that amount. And by the time you get all

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Speaker 13: that in and the client has been built all that money,

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Speaker 13: you're so physically exhausted you don't even want partnership anymore.

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Speaker 12: You just want a vacation. It's a very tough gig, and.

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Speaker 2: Frankly, well, I think you're speaking for yourself. I would

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Speaker 2: never have liked that, because I like going out on

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Speaker 2: the street. I liked investigating. I did not want to

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Speaker 2: be in office for all those hours for the rest

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Speaker 2: of my life life. But some people love it, and

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Speaker 2: thank Heaven, they do because they find their niche. I

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Speaker 2: just don't understand how he can fake out so many people.

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Speaker 2: It's hard to reconcile the guy in the law firm

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Speaker 2: photos with the designer suit and silk tie compared to

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Speaker 2: all the mugshots. And he may wonder where did all

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Speaker 2: those mugshots come from.

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Speaker 1: Well, listen, they.

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Speaker 17: Were down our small little grocery store down the street,

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Speaker 17: and she said, I have no idea what I said,

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Speaker 17: but I must have said something that upset him.

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Speaker 1: They got home and.

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Speaker 17: He was mad, and he was angry, and she said,

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Speaker 17: I let him know that I'm walking the doors and

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Speaker 17: I'm not letting you in until you can take a

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Speaker 17: deep breath.

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Speaker 2: Straight out to former homicide detective who shot to the

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Speaker 2: consciousness of the public during the Scott Peterson case, Jean Buehler,

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Speaker 2: By the way, that sound you just hears from our

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Speaker 2: friends at Fox thirty to Chicago, was it you that

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Speaker 2: told me that right after Peterson found out that Lacy's

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Speaker 2: DNA matched the body when it washed up on San

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Speaker 2: Francisco Bay Beach. That that DNA in the DNA of

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Speaker 2: a little baby was absolutely Lacey and Connor. And within

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Speaker 2: a few moments he said he wanted an in and out?

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Speaker 1: Was it in and out?

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Speaker 2: And he wanted a double double with cheese, fries and

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Speaker 2: some special drink.

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Speaker 1: Did you tell me that?

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Speaker 6: Yeah, that was a while back, and told it a

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Speaker 6: few times. Ten minutes later maybe, I don't know, maybe

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Speaker 6: fifteen minutes later. Then the control that he had a

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Speaker 6: lot of similarities between this attorney from Chicago, very controlled.

437
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Speaker 6: Used to get in his own way, Scott hit it

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Speaker 6: a lot better than this guy did.

439
00:25:51,800 --> 00:25:54,320
Speaker 1: But yeah, he brushed off.

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Speaker 6: The confirmation that his wife and his child were dead,

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Speaker 6: and then he was ready to eat a burger and

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Speaker 6: a fry and nilla shake. So it kind of shows

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Speaker 6: with this guy from Chicago. It kind of falls in

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Speaker 6: line with what Shakespeare wrote Macbeth for this kind of attorney.

445
00:26:07,960 --> 00:26:09,560
Speaker 6: The first thing we do is kill all the lawyers.

446
00:26:09,800 --> 00:26:11,720
Speaker 1: This is what he was writing about.

447
00:26:12,000 --> 00:26:15,600
Speaker 2: You know another fast of that. And of course, Buehler,

448
00:26:15,800 --> 00:26:18,440
Speaker 2: I know that you're not a psychiatrist or a psychologist.

449
00:26:18,480 --> 00:26:18,919
Speaker 1: Neither am I.

450
00:26:19,560 --> 00:26:25,040
Speaker 2: But Peterson just got told a few moments before.

451
00:26:25,160 --> 00:26:27,119
Speaker 1: Ten minutes or less, we.

452
00:26:27,200 --> 00:26:30,240
Speaker 2: Got to break it to Peterson that the body that

453
00:26:30,520 --> 00:26:34,240
Speaker 2: was to shore, the two bodies are definitively your wife

454
00:26:34,359 --> 00:26:36,920
Speaker 2: Lacey and your son Connor.

455
00:26:38,040 --> 00:26:41,080
Speaker 1: Within ten minutes, he had his order up here. He

456
00:26:41,119 --> 00:26:43,919
Speaker 1: wanted a double double cheese, a fry, and of a

457
00:26:43,920 --> 00:26:47,000
Speaker 1: Neil mil shake. He just blurted it out like nothing

458
00:26:47,040 --> 00:26:47,800
Speaker 1: had just happened.

459
00:26:48,880 --> 00:26:50,639
Speaker 6: Yeah, it was one of those things where we were

460
00:26:50,640 --> 00:26:53,840
Speaker 6: obviously convinced well before that day that he had killed

461
00:26:54,160 --> 00:26:57,760
Speaker 6: Lacy and Connor, and so we weren't really expecting much.

462
00:26:57,840 --> 00:27:00,960
Speaker 6: We wanted to analyze his reaction, but really confirmed for

463
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:03,840
Speaker 6: us what he was all about, because when you can

464
00:27:04,040 --> 00:27:07,320
Speaker 6: contrast his reaction to that with the interviews that he

465
00:27:07,320 --> 00:27:09,639
Speaker 6: had done and he was faking the tears that he

466
00:27:09,680 --> 00:27:11,520
Speaker 6: was waiting for the child to come home. He kept

467
00:27:11,520 --> 00:27:13,479
Speaker 6: the nursery in good shape, but of course he had

468
00:27:13,520 --> 00:27:15,680
Speaker 6: the porn channel going at the house, and he sold

469
00:27:15,720 --> 00:27:18,600
Speaker 6: Lacey's car, and he was talking about selling the house,

470
00:27:18,600 --> 00:27:20,280
Speaker 6: and it fit in line with what he was really

471
00:27:20,320 --> 00:27:22,440
Speaker 6: all about. And I think that's what's the same thing

472
00:27:22,440 --> 00:27:25,040
Speaker 6: you have with this guy. This guy, this attorney from Chicago.

473
00:27:25,080 --> 00:27:27,239
Speaker 6: I don't even want to mention his name. He just

474
00:27:27,359 --> 00:27:30,600
Speaker 6: wasn't as controlled as Scott was probably equally as charming

475
00:27:30,720 --> 00:27:33,159
Speaker 6: in the right circumstance. But he can see in the

476
00:27:33,240 --> 00:27:35,639
Speaker 6: videos that you're showing and all the stuff that he

477
00:27:35,720 --> 00:27:38,480
Speaker 6: was doing when he loses control, when he doesn't have

478
00:27:38,520 --> 00:27:40,720
Speaker 6: control over the situation, he pretty much freaks out in

479
00:27:40,760 --> 00:27:45,280
Speaker 6: this and that's where the problem came in for our

480
00:27:45,320 --> 00:27:47,600
Speaker 6: victim on this. It just was terrible for her to

481
00:27:47,960 --> 00:27:51,600
Speaker 6: put up with this. But nice people mixing up with evil.

482
00:27:52,440 --> 00:27:55,760
Speaker 6: Nice people make excuses for evil, and sometimes it ends poorly,

483
00:27:55,840 --> 00:27:56,400
Speaker 6: like I did hear.

484
00:27:57,640 --> 00:28:01,480
Speaker 2: You Know what I noticed, doctor Sheryl Eric, doctor Eric,

485
00:28:01,800 --> 00:28:06,520
Speaker 2: clinical forensic psychologist specializing in trauma recovery, is when the neighbor,

486
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:11,040
Speaker 2: her name is Joyce Lance, that's the Michigan neighbor, stated

487
00:28:11,119 --> 00:28:17,680
Speaker 2: that she heard the victim state I must have said

488
00:28:17,720 --> 00:28:22,200
Speaker 2: something that upset him. And I found that to be universe,

489
00:28:22,240 --> 00:28:27,560
Speaker 2: almost universal, that the female victim always thinks she did

490
00:28:27,640 --> 00:28:34,960
Speaker 2: something to cause the beating, which is entirely bad backwards.

491
00:28:35,560 --> 00:28:40,880
Speaker 7: Exactly exactly, and she says this because the abusers over

492
00:28:41,000 --> 00:28:44,920
Speaker 7: and over again, say you made me do this, You

493
00:28:45,040 --> 00:28:47,520
Speaker 7: made me mad. If you hadn't done this, if you

494
00:28:47,760 --> 00:28:50,520
Speaker 7: had only done that, And a lot of the time,

495
00:28:50,600 --> 00:28:53,200
Speaker 7: these nice people who mix with evil, as your previous

496
00:28:53,280 --> 00:28:58,120
Speaker 7: guest was saying, stay a long time because they overestimate

497
00:28:58,240 --> 00:29:01,440
Speaker 7: how much they can be helpful and make everything nice.

498
00:29:01,480 --> 00:29:04,680
Speaker 7: They believe that somehow, if they can be different or

499
00:29:04,800 --> 00:29:10,280
Speaker 7: not upset the batterer or do everything exactly right, that

500
00:29:10,320 --> 00:29:12,800
Speaker 7: they can make things be peaceful, and they can make

501
00:29:12,840 --> 00:29:16,400
Speaker 7: the guy be the sweet, charming guy that they initially met,

502
00:29:16,560 --> 00:29:19,240
Speaker 7: who they thought he really was, And so they take

503
00:29:19,280 --> 00:29:22,640
Speaker 7: on responsibility. When they're not responsible for any of the

504
00:29:22,760 --> 00:29:25,080
Speaker 7: violence that the batterer does, that's on them.

505
00:29:25,920 --> 00:29:30,960
Speaker 2: We are hearing the neighbor describe how the couple was

506
00:29:31,000 --> 00:29:36,560
Speaker 2: at a little grocery store down the street and the victim, Caitlin,

507
00:29:36,840 --> 00:29:38,640
Speaker 2: was saying, I don't know what I did to upset him,

508
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:41,520
Speaker 2: and she said that I let him know I'm locking

509
00:29:41,560 --> 00:29:44,560
Speaker 2: the doors and not letting him in until he can

510
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:45,880
Speaker 2: take a deep breath.

511
00:29:46,200 --> 00:29:50,320
Speaker 1: She locked the doors that day, but it didn't work.

512
00:29:50,480 --> 00:29:53,840
Speaker 17: Apparently, then he went around to the sunroom in the

513
00:29:53,880 --> 00:29:56,480
Speaker 17: back of the house, and came in. She tried to

514
00:29:56,560 --> 00:30:01,120
Speaker 17: run and get away from him, and she describes hiding

515
00:30:01,240 --> 00:30:05,200
Speaker 17: underneath the dining room table. She described him pulling her

516
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:08,240
Speaker 17: out by her hair. She described at some point during

517
00:30:08,320 --> 00:30:11,040
Speaker 17: all of this, grabbing her phone and calling nine to

518
00:30:11,040 --> 00:30:11,400
Speaker 17: one one.

519
00:30:12,040 --> 00:30:15,240
Speaker 18: She said, I don't know if there's anything here because

520
00:30:16,040 --> 00:30:17,280
Speaker 18: he's a strain one.

521
00:30:17,360 --> 00:30:18,080
Speaker 15: That's what he does.

522
00:30:18,480 --> 00:30:22,440
Speaker 2: From our friends Fox thirty to Chicago, Debay, a beautiful

523
00:30:22,600 --> 00:30:27,040
Speaker 2: woman who vaulted to the top of her field, has

524
00:30:27,080 --> 00:30:30,360
Speaker 2: to hide under the dining room table after she thinks

525
00:30:30,360 --> 00:30:31,200
Speaker 2: she locked.

526
00:30:30,920 --> 00:30:32,720
Speaker 1: All the doors. She gets through the sunroom.

527
00:30:33,360 --> 00:30:35,800
Speaker 2: And this is not even the incident where she's thrown

528
00:30:36,400 --> 00:30:39,960
Speaker 2: for she's found at the bottom of a stairwheel, missing

529
00:30:40,080 --> 00:30:41,880
Speaker 2: a foot and pulverized.

530
00:30:42,120 --> 00:30:46,760
Speaker 1: This is a prior incident. How is there any way?

531
00:30:46,800 --> 00:30:49,880
Speaker 2: And I believe that there is if this case ever

532
00:30:49,960 --> 00:30:54,320
Speaker 2: goes to trial, that these prior incidents can come into

533
00:30:54,360 --> 00:30:59,400
Speaker 2: evans because this neighbor is recounting what Caitlin told her.

534
00:30:59,760 --> 00:31:03,160
Speaker 1: Kate Ln is dead now, Yeah.

535
00:31:02,960 --> 00:31:05,600
Speaker 13: The judge can let it in to prove something other

536
00:31:05,680 --> 00:31:08,800
Speaker 13: than his bad character. So for example, the intent to

537
00:31:08,840 --> 00:31:12,160
Speaker 13: do evil, the intent to harm, to show that he

538
00:31:12,240 --> 00:31:14,720
Speaker 13: has an excuse for everything. You just offer it for

539
00:31:14,840 --> 00:31:18,360
Speaker 13: some non character purpose, and it's all going to come in.

540
00:31:18,760 --> 00:31:21,720
Speaker 13: Not to mention that most states, including California, and I'm

541
00:31:21,760 --> 00:31:25,160
Speaker 13: sure that Illinois is in accord, they have a special

542
00:31:25,240 --> 00:31:28,840
Speaker 13: statute in their rules of evidence that specifically allow for

543
00:31:28,960 --> 00:31:32,360
Speaker 13: prior incidents of domestic violence to come in, not so

544
00:31:32,440 --> 00:31:35,600
Speaker 13: much to show propensity, but to show a pattern of

545
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,840
Speaker 13: behavior in the abuser. So the law allows for them

546
00:31:39,160 --> 00:31:39,760
Speaker 13: the real task.

547
00:31:39,840 --> 00:31:43,880
Speaker 2: Of course, dubay Is does a similar transaction. It doesn't

548
00:31:43,880 --> 00:31:47,000
Speaker 2: necessarily have to be a fingerprint crime, but does it

549
00:31:47,200 --> 00:31:50,480
Speaker 2: tend to prove the case in chief, whether showing course

550
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:56,480
Speaker 2: of conduct, motive, frame of mind, scheme plan, And in this.

551
00:31:56,400 --> 00:31:57,120
Speaker 1: Case it did.

552
00:31:57,160 --> 00:31:59,720
Speaker 2: And it breaks my heart to think she was running

553
00:31:59,760 --> 00:32:02,880
Speaker 2: around locking all the doors and he's snuck.

554
00:32:02,640 --> 00:32:04,720
Speaker 1: In through the sunroom.

555
00:32:05,040 --> 00:32:08,480
Speaker 2: And you know, doctor Cheryl, you mentioned some stats on

556
00:32:09,240 --> 00:32:12,680
Speaker 2: when strangulation was used as a method to method to

557
00:32:12,800 --> 00:32:16,520
Speaker 2: some do the female victim that it's seven hundred and

558
00:32:16,520 --> 00:32:20,120
Speaker 2: fifty times more likely that a homicide will occur.

559
00:32:20,240 --> 00:32:20,880
Speaker 1: Well, you just.

560
00:32:20,880 --> 00:32:27,160
Speaker 2: Heard another neighbor, Bunny Coiner, state that she Caitlin, the victim,

561
00:32:27,240 --> 00:32:32,920
Speaker 2: said he's a strangler that's what he does. And the

562
00:32:33,000 --> 00:32:34,640
Speaker 2: neighbor gestured to her neck.

563
00:32:35,400 --> 00:32:40,040
Speaker 7: Yeah, it's tragic, and the correlation is so high. I mean,

564
00:32:40,120 --> 00:32:46,080
Speaker 7: in the continuum of domestic violence risk, when somebody stops

565
00:32:46,240 --> 00:32:49,080
Speaker 7: you from breathing and stops the blood float to your brain,

566
00:32:49,240 --> 00:32:52,360
Speaker 7: you can lose consciousness within ten seconds and you can

567
00:32:52,440 --> 00:32:56,680
Speaker 7: die within a few minutes. And the unconsciousness to deathline

568
00:32:56,800 --> 00:33:00,600
Speaker 7: is so small, that is that it is the most

569
00:33:00,680 --> 00:33:04,120
Speaker 7: dangerous thing before death and a homicide in terms of

570
00:33:04,120 --> 00:33:07,000
Speaker 7: this risk. And the stats really are mind blowing, they

571
00:33:07,080 --> 00:33:10,040
Speaker 7: really are. And I just hope that people who know

572
00:33:10,120 --> 00:33:13,800
Speaker 7: of anyone who is in this situation, if there has

573
00:33:13,880 --> 00:33:17,800
Speaker 7: been even non lethal strangulation, which doesn't even necessarily show

574
00:33:17,840 --> 00:33:21,240
Speaker 7: a mark. Sometimes you'll see marks on the perpetrator because

575
00:33:21,280 --> 00:33:23,280
Speaker 7: someone's fighting, like hell, they get their hands off their

576
00:33:23,280 --> 00:33:26,840
Speaker 7: own neck. But if that has happened, the risk of

577
00:33:27,280 --> 00:33:31,920
Speaker 7: homicide following that is so high that it's very important

578
00:33:31,920 --> 00:33:34,000
Speaker 7: that people know how very dangerous this is.

579
00:33:34,680 --> 00:33:35,480
Speaker 1: She said, I don't know.

580
00:33:35,480 --> 00:33:40,200
Speaker 18: If there's anything here, because he's a strong way, that's

581
00:33:40,200 --> 00:33:40,480
Speaker 18: what he.

582
00:33:40,480 --> 00:33:43,920
Speaker 1: Does, Fox serty to say Chicaga under duress.

583
00:33:44,120 --> 00:33:47,800
Speaker 3: Caitlin dropped the protection order after being threatened months later,

584
00:33:47,920 --> 00:33:50,440
Speaker 3: as she made a desperate nine one one call accusing

585
00:33:50,480 --> 00:33:53,960
Speaker 3: her husband of assault and theft. Police arrived to find

586
00:33:54,000 --> 00:33:57,800
Speaker 3: a visible injuries on Caitlyn, leading to Beckering's arrest, but

587
00:33:57,920 --> 00:34:02,040
Speaker 3: then Gitlin mysteriously vanish.

588
00:34:02,840 --> 00:34:04,920
Speaker 1: Many of the couple's neighbors knew.

589
00:34:05,640 --> 00:34:08,839
Speaker 2: Has this been in articles? There was trouble in Paradise. Boy,

590
00:34:08,880 --> 00:34:12,799
Speaker 2: that's putting it mildly. It's been called incidents, has been

591
00:34:12,840 --> 00:34:17,320
Speaker 2: called misunderstandings. It's called a domestic which brings up warm,

592
00:34:17,400 --> 00:34:23,040
Speaker 2: fuzzy I you know images, you know Christmas card with

593
00:34:23,120 --> 00:34:27,680
Speaker 2: the family all around the fireplace. Domestic It is anything,

594
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:32,080
Speaker 2: but it is bloody and brutal, and this is where

595
00:34:32,080 --> 00:34:32,960
Speaker 2: it's landed us.

596
00:34:33,480 --> 00:34:36,680
Speaker 19: A resident at Grant luxury condos stop short when they

597
00:34:36,680 --> 00:34:39,040
Speaker 19: see a severed human foot at the bottom of the

598
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:42,000
Speaker 19: second floor stairwell that looks too real to be a

599
00:34:42,040 --> 00:34:45,440
Speaker 19: Halloween decoration. Their doorman calls nine to one one in

600
00:34:45,480 --> 00:34:48,520
Speaker 19: a panic after discovering the rest of a woman's body

601
00:34:48,560 --> 00:34:52,360
Speaker 19: three floors up. Investigators swarmed the high rise and determine

602
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:54,719
Speaker 19: the victim fell at least twenty stories.

603
00:34:55,440 --> 00:35:00,319
Speaker 2: Harry and Alexander, we'd been told twenty four stories. How

604
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:04,759
Speaker 2: do you fall down twenty four stories?

605
00:35:05,480 --> 00:35:08,320
Speaker 1: And what about her foot?

606
00:35:08,840 --> 00:35:10,839
Speaker 9: Gone, yeah, that's right.

607
00:35:11,040 --> 00:35:16,280
Speaker 14: So prosecutors are saying that she was actually pushed or thrown.

608
00:35:16,200 --> 00:35:19,480
Speaker 9: Twenty four stories from his apartment.

609
00:35:20,480 --> 00:35:24,040
Speaker 14: The body, as you said, was described as being pulverized,

610
00:35:24,840 --> 00:35:27,600
Speaker 14: so it took some time for the autopsy to be done,

611
00:35:28,480 --> 00:35:31,520
Speaker 14: and given the height of the fall, that would be

612
00:35:31,600 --> 00:35:33,560
Speaker 14: how the foot would be severed.

613
00:35:33,920 --> 00:35:36,080
Speaker 9: But you're right it it's pretty grim.

614
00:35:36,120 --> 00:35:39,880
Speaker 2: Indeed, Well, I'm still confused about how your foot is

615
00:35:39,960 --> 00:35:43,080
Speaker 2: severed during a fall downstairs. So I guess we're going

616
00:35:43,120 --> 00:35:45,080
Speaker 2: to have to go to our medical examiner. But first

617
00:35:45,280 --> 00:35:47,120
Speaker 2: I want doctor Coyne to hear this.

618
00:35:47,640 --> 00:35:52,880
Speaker 10: Caitlin's body pulverized while falling twenty four floors, multiple skull fractures,

619
00:35:53,080 --> 00:35:55,759
Speaker 10: a deep gaping laceration on the back of her head

620
00:35:55,760 --> 00:35:59,479
Speaker 10: exposing cranial content, cuts and bruises to her face and neck,

621
00:36:00,040 --> 00:36:04,640
Speaker 10: badly broken nose, internal organ sliced, and a severed foot.

622
00:36:05,040 --> 00:36:08,720
Speaker 10: Caitlin also suffered an eleven inch laceration on her torso

623
00:36:08,920 --> 00:36:11,319
Speaker 10: and the corner made note of a twelve x ten

624
00:36:11,360 --> 00:36:14,960
Speaker 10: inch area of intense black and brown abrasions on her back, I.

625
00:36:14,920 --> 00:36:18,200
Speaker 2: Don't understand the layout of how she could fall twenty

626
00:36:18,520 --> 00:36:24,080
Speaker 2: four flies. That said straight out to a renowned medical examiner,

627
00:36:24,239 --> 00:36:27,640
Speaker 2: Doctor Thomas Coin is joining US Chief Medical Examiner District

628
00:36:28,760 --> 00:36:34,160
Speaker 2: of the Medical Examiner's Office in Florida. Forensic pathologist, toxicologist,

629
00:36:34,280 --> 00:36:38,120
Speaker 2: and neuro pathologist Dodger Coin, thank you for being with us.

630
00:36:38,120 --> 00:36:40,520
Speaker 2: Can you make headge of tails out of what we're learning?

631
00:36:40,920 --> 00:36:44,080
Speaker 2: The medical examiner there said, yeah, sure.

632
00:36:44,719 --> 00:36:47,640
Speaker 20: We often think when we think of a person who

633
00:36:47,719 --> 00:36:50,960
Speaker 20: falls from a building or a high height, we think

634
00:36:51,040 --> 00:36:53,320
Speaker 20: we'll be seeing a movie right where a body lands,

635
00:36:53,360 --> 00:36:55,160
Speaker 20: maybe crashing on the roof of a car or on

636
00:36:55,160 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 20: a sidewalk. The body is intact, with the blood slowly

637
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,680
Speaker 20: trickling out of the head air. But in reality, when

638
00:37:01,680 --> 00:37:04,799
Speaker 20: a body strikes a ground from a high rise fall

639
00:37:04,880 --> 00:37:09,640
Speaker 20: let's say twenty plus stories, the impact is so forceful

640
00:37:09,760 --> 00:37:13,799
Speaker 20: due to the sudden infantaneous deceleration that it tears the

641
00:37:13,800 --> 00:37:16,560
Speaker 20: body apart. So you will have tearing of the skin,

642
00:37:17,120 --> 00:37:20,319
Speaker 20: fracturing of the bone. As a bone fracture, they can

643
00:37:20,400 --> 00:37:23,319
Speaker 20: further tear through skin, and so more often than not,

644
00:37:23,680 --> 00:37:27,960
Speaker 20: the body will not be intact. You'll have appendages, or

645
00:37:28,000 --> 00:37:30,760
Speaker 20: even internal organs that have been thrown from the body

646
00:37:30,920 --> 00:37:34,400
Speaker 20: and are found yards away. I've had whole brains that

647
00:37:34,440 --> 00:37:36,719
Speaker 20: have completely come out of the head and have been

648
00:37:36,760 --> 00:37:40,360
Speaker 20: found more than ten yards away from the body after impact.

649
00:37:40,440 --> 00:37:43,200
Speaker 20: So it's very common, more common to actually have a

650
00:37:43,239 --> 00:37:46,480
Speaker 20: body not be intact after an impact of that height.

651
00:37:47,400 --> 00:37:49,400
Speaker 1: Gotch a coin. I want to understand something.

652
00:37:50,280 --> 00:37:53,480
Speaker 2: We have been told she was found at the bottom

653
00:37:53,520 --> 00:37:59,280
Speaker 2: of a stairwell. We've also been told she fell twenty

654
00:37:59,760 --> 00:38:04,080
Speaker 2: four stories. When you think of someone at the bottom

655
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:07,440
Speaker 2: of a stairwell, you think they've come down the stairs.

656
00:38:09,200 --> 00:38:13,359
Speaker 2: So she would have had to go down one set

657
00:38:13,400 --> 00:38:16,440
Speaker 2: of stairs, then a landing, then another set of stairs,

658
00:38:16,560 --> 00:38:20,279
Speaker 2: then a landing. Under the building code, you cannot have

659
00:38:20,680 --> 00:38:25,200
Speaker 2: twenty four stories of steps going straight down. There has

660
00:38:25,360 --> 00:38:28,880
Speaker 2: to be a landing every twenty thirty steps.

661
00:38:29,280 --> 00:38:33,960
Speaker 1: There has to be under the wall fell down, So yeah, okay,

662
00:38:34,160 --> 00:38:34,840
Speaker 1: what's your serious?

663
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:38,280
Speaker 20: When you walk down the stairwells of a large building,

664
00:38:38,360 --> 00:38:40,200
Speaker 20: you can peer over the railing and you see that

665
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:43,200
Speaker 20: there's that drop all the way down in between the

666
00:38:43,239 --> 00:38:47,680
Speaker 20: stairs as the stairs are winding around going downward. My

667
00:38:47,719 --> 00:38:50,200
Speaker 20: assumption is that she was pushed over the railing and

668
00:38:50,239 --> 00:38:53,239
Speaker 20: then fell down in between those stairs all the way

669
00:38:53,280 --> 00:38:55,960
Speaker 20: down those twenty four flights, because that's the only way

670
00:38:56,000 --> 00:38:59,480
Speaker 20: it can describe injuries that are catastrophic such that they

671
00:38:59,480 --> 00:39:04,040
Speaker 20: could be just that's pulverized as she fell down each

672
00:39:04,080 --> 00:39:07,040
Speaker 20: individual stairwell. She wouldn't have such severe injuries. She would

673
00:39:07,080 --> 00:39:12,680
Speaker 20: have injuries, of course, but not that severe.

674
00:39:16,480 --> 00:39:18,120
Speaker 1: Crime stories with Nancy Grace.

675
00:39:22,440 --> 00:39:27,400
Speaker 2: Harriet Alexander, senior features writer delimail dot Com. Does that

676
00:39:27,640 --> 00:39:30,440
Speaker 2: make sense coins analysis?

677
00:39:31,040 --> 00:39:33,920
Speaker 9: Yeah, absolutely, in that you know, if she's.

678
00:39:33,800 --> 00:39:38,800
Speaker 14: Falling staircase by staircase by staircase, her fall is being slowed,

679
00:39:39,600 --> 00:39:42,279
Speaker 14: so it's not going to be catastrophic, and then you'd

680
00:39:42,280 --> 00:39:46,200
Speaker 14: have someone presumably pushing her rolling her down the stairs.

681
00:39:46,600 --> 00:39:49,920
Speaker 16: Whereas, if you think about it, if she is pushed

682
00:39:50,120 --> 00:39:54,640
Speaker 16: tipped over the gap essentially the hole that is in

683
00:39:54,719 --> 00:39:58,040
Speaker 16: this in the middle of the stairwell, then she could

684
00:39:58,120 --> 00:39:59,320
Speaker 16: plummet straight down.

685
00:39:59,560 --> 00:40:02,040
Speaker 9: So it's the same as if you topple over.

686
00:40:01,880 --> 00:40:05,640
Speaker 14: A balcony and you land on the ground beneath on

687
00:40:05,760 --> 00:40:06,240
Speaker 14: the building.

688
00:40:06,320 --> 00:40:09,600
Speaker 9: You are going pretty much straight down. But back to your.

689
00:40:09,520 --> 00:40:11,720
Speaker 14: Point as to how the foot could have been severed,

690
00:40:11,760 --> 00:40:16,000
Speaker 14: You know the body doesn't necessarily drop exactly like a stone.

691
00:40:16,080 --> 00:40:17,280
Speaker 9: It could be zig.

692
00:40:17,239 --> 00:40:21,120
Speaker 14: Zagging around somewhat in this free fall, and that could

693
00:40:21,160 --> 00:40:24,760
Speaker 14: certainly contribute to the injuries, because if you're falling at speed,

694
00:40:25,080 --> 00:40:27,680
Speaker 14: you could be bashing into the metal, into the stairway,

695
00:40:28,040 --> 00:40:31,400
Speaker 14: into the concrete, into the railings of the stairs, and

696
00:40:31,440 --> 00:40:32,440
Speaker 14: that could have caused some.

697
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:33,879
Speaker 9: Of the injuries as well as she.

698
00:40:33,880 --> 00:40:38,880
Speaker 2: Fell two from a homicide Detective John Buehler.

699
00:40:40,160 --> 00:40:42,160
Speaker 1: In big high rises like that, you.

700
00:40:42,120 --> 00:40:45,560
Speaker 2: Have a trash shoot, and you don't go down to

701
00:40:45,560 --> 00:40:47,880
Speaker 2: the bottom floor to leave your trash on the curb.

702
00:40:48,400 --> 00:40:50,040
Speaker 2: You put it down a shoot and goes all the

703
00:40:50,080 --> 00:40:52,640
Speaker 2: way down. You can hear it going all the way down.

704
00:40:53,920 --> 00:40:59,120
Speaker 2: It's as if, allegedly he pushed her over the edge,

705
00:40:59,239 --> 00:41:01,919
Speaker 2: like you would just throw trash on the trash sheet

706
00:41:02,160 --> 00:41:03,680
Speaker 2: and that's it.

707
00:41:03,840 --> 00:41:06,680
Speaker 1: She's gone. Yeah, that's kind of the way I read it.

708
00:41:06,920 --> 00:41:09,120
Speaker 6: You know, the forensic pathologists, I think nailed it pretty

709
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:12,000
Speaker 6: good architecturally that you got the stairs going around what

710
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 6: essentially would be almost like an elevator shaft, and so

711
00:41:15,239 --> 00:41:16,920
Speaker 6: it seems like he might have pushed her over the

712
00:41:17,000 --> 00:41:19,200
Speaker 6: railing and she went down in between the stairs all

713
00:41:19,200 --> 00:41:21,359
Speaker 6: the way down, possibly bouncing off a couple of them

714
00:41:21,360 --> 00:41:23,960
Speaker 6: on the way down, counting for the injuries. But when

715
00:41:24,000 --> 00:41:26,920
Speaker 6: you describe the injuries, Nancy, I'm wondering how many of

716
00:41:26,920 --> 00:41:30,160
Speaker 6: those that this piece of crap gave her before he

717
00:41:30,320 --> 00:41:33,000
Speaker 6: tossed her over the railing. It seems to me that

718
00:41:33,080 --> 00:41:36,239
Speaker 6: might be something of interest. The forensic pathologists may be

719
00:41:36,239 --> 00:41:39,360
Speaker 6: able to determine that, possibly, but it just goes along

720
00:41:39,360 --> 00:41:43,200
Speaker 6: with the whole thing. The circumstantial evidence on this case

721
00:41:43,280 --> 00:41:46,000
Speaker 6: points directly at this guy and no place else. No

722
00:41:46,080 --> 00:41:50,120
Speaker 6: indication of attempted suicide or anything like that from Caitlin

723
00:41:50,200 --> 00:41:54,040
Speaker 6: before this came about. It just shows that she was

724
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,360
Speaker 6: willing to forgive some of the things that he was doing.

725
00:41:56,600 --> 00:41:59,359
Speaker 6: And it all fits with doctor Cheryl's take on the

726
00:41:59,400 --> 00:42:03,200
Speaker 6: power control old domestic violence wheel. Everything fits into place

727
00:42:03,239 --> 00:42:06,680
Speaker 6: on that when it comes to Caitlin and this attorney.

728
00:42:06,920 --> 00:42:11,240
Speaker 2: Sidney Sumner with US investigative reporter with Crime Stories, Sydney

729
00:42:11,920 --> 00:42:14,520
Speaker 2: was her foot sound that.

730
00:42:14,640 --> 00:42:19,040
Speaker 4: Was actually what was found. First, a resident stumbled across

731
00:42:19,160 --> 00:42:23,680
Speaker 4: a foot on the second floor, reported it to a doorman,

732
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:28,080
Speaker 4: who then searched the starewell and stumbled on Caitlin's body

733
00:42:28,200 --> 00:42:32,080
Speaker 4: three floors up, so the foot continued to fall after

734
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:33,640
Speaker 4: Caitlyn's body stopped.

735
00:42:33,920 --> 00:42:36,800
Speaker 10: In September twenty twenty three, Caitlin breaks up with becker

736
00:42:36,880 --> 00:42:39,759
Speaker 10: Ink after a confrontation at the Ritz Carlton Chicago, when

737
00:42:39,800 --> 00:42:43,239
Speaker 10: Beckerink enters Kaitlin's hotel room while she sleeps and assaults her.

738
00:42:43,560 --> 00:42:46,560
Speaker 10: But Beckerin continues to call and harassed Kaitlin until she

739
00:42:46,600 --> 00:42:49,000
Speaker 10: files in order of protection eight weeks after the breakup,

740
00:42:49,080 --> 00:42:52,520
Speaker 10: stating Beckering calls her twenty times a day, calls her

741
00:42:52,560 --> 00:42:56,440
Speaker 10: a liar, cheater, whoor piece of excrement. She also documents

742
00:42:56,480 --> 00:42:59,720
Speaker 10: repeated assaults, including an attack in August where Beckering quote

743
00:43:00,080 --> 00:43:02,719
Speaker 10: lam my head against a cabinet, slap me, punched me,

744
00:43:02,840 --> 00:43:05,000
Speaker 10: put my head in a headlock, and dragged me away

745
00:43:05,000 --> 00:43:08,160
Speaker 10: from the door, and attempted to sexually abuse me. Caitlin

746
00:43:08,239 --> 00:43:11,000
Speaker 10: filed for an emergency protection order against becker Ring just

747
00:43:11,040 --> 00:43:12,720
Speaker 10: two months before the first attack.

748
00:43:13,160 --> 00:43:16,040
Speaker 2: Crime Stories investigative reporter Sydney s owner with us and

749
00:43:16,880 --> 00:43:22,800
Speaker 2: in that attack, not the alleged murder, but in that attack,

750
00:43:23,080 --> 00:43:28,920
Speaker 2: isn't it true the defendant tax attorney Beckering got a

751
00:43:28,960 --> 00:43:29,839
Speaker 2: sweetheart deal.

752
00:43:30,000 --> 00:43:31,520
Speaker 1: He didn't even plead guilty.

753
00:43:31,880 --> 00:43:35,920
Speaker 2: He pled no lo contender, I don't contest it to

754
00:43:36,120 --> 00:43:38,520
Speaker 2: reduce charges of domestic violence.

755
00:43:38,160 --> 00:43:41,080
Speaker 1: And interfering with a nine to one one call. A

756
00:43:41,080 --> 00:43:43,320
Speaker 1: lot of other charges were dropped.

757
00:43:43,360 --> 00:43:47,400
Speaker 2: He got ninety three days for that, on which you

758
00:43:47,520 --> 00:43:49,040
Speaker 2: probably do maybe twenty.

759
00:43:49,640 --> 00:43:54,160
Speaker 4: Right, he pled no contest, dropping almost all of the

760
00:43:54,239 --> 00:43:58,040
Speaker 4: charges against him. So what he pled to was the

761
00:43:58,200 --> 00:44:04,040
Speaker 4: January thirteenth attack before their marriage. So where we saw

762
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:07,360
Speaker 4: the body, can he's begging, pleading, don't arrest me, the

763
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:10,759
Speaker 4: cost telling you already have a felony warn out. Why

764
00:44:10,800 --> 00:44:13,960
Speaker 4: are you surprised at what's happening right now? That is

765
00:44:14,000 --> 00:44:16,640
Speaker 4: the case that he pled guilty to. He did not

766
00:44:17,280 --> 00:44:20,520
Speaker 4: or pled no contest to. He did not even cop

767
00:44:20,680 --> 00:44:23,680
Speaker 4: to what happened on August sixteenth that we witnessed in

768
00:44:23,760 --> 00:44:24,240
Speaker 4: that body.

769
00:44:24,280 --> 00:44:27,400
Speaker 2: Can okay, Philip do that you're the veteran defense attorney.

770
00:44:27,800 --> 00:44:31,480
Speaker 2: What's your argument if you take this to trial? What

771
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:32,279
Speaker 2: do you do?

772
00:44:32,440 --> 00:44:34,240
Speaker 1: What climate was just a big accident?

773
00:44:34,840 --> 00:44:38,160
Speaker 13: Is causation And this is what I would present to

774
00:44:38,200 --> 00:44:40,239
Speaker 13: the jury. First of all, you have a coroner who's

775
00:44:40,239 --> 00:44:40,840
Speaker 13: saying that.

776
00:44:41,080 --> 00:44:42,640
Speaker 12: The manner of death is.

777
00:44:42,719 --> 00:44:46,920
Speaker 13: Undetermined, cause of death obviously is traumatic injury to the body.

778
00:44:47,680 --> 00:44:51,160
Speaker 13: What I would present is that, in all their emotionality,

779
00:44:51,560 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 13: exasperation and hysteria, she made a run for it, and

780
00:44:55,400 --> 00:44:58,720
Speaker 13: she took to the stairs, and while running down those stairs,

781
00:44:58,760 --> 00:45:02,120
Speaker 13: she lost her footing. She fell over the railing into

782
00:45:02,160 --> 00:45:05,520
Speaker 13: the well hole to her death. That is a causation argument.

783
00:45:05,640 --> 00:45:10,239
Speaker 13: You cannot ascribe her death to being chased by a defendant.

784
00:45:10,680 --> 00:45:13,640
Speaker 13: The death has to be at the hands of another

785
00:45:14,040 --> 00:45:18,239
Speaker 13: and not due to her losing her footing. That would

786
00:45:18,280 --> 00:45:20,040
Speaker 13: be the argument that is called causey.

787
00:45:20,160 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 2: Did you say losing her footing or losing her foot debay?

788
00:45:24,600 --> 00:45:26,799
Speaker 1: Do you say anybody's really gonna.

789
00:45:26,480 --> 00:45:29,800
Speaker 2: Believe she would committed suicide by jumping over a rail

790
00:45:30,160 --> 00:45:34,080
Speaker 2: or fail down twenty four flights of steps?

791
00:45:34,120 --> 00:45:35,040
Speaker 1: Are you serious?

792
00:45:35,680 --> 00:45:36,320
Speaker 12: That's serious?

793
00:45:36,400 --> 00:45:40,080
Speaker 13: Because murder is not his mo He doesn't have murder

794
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:43,560
Speaker 13: on his rap sheet. And I'll give you he is

795
00:45:43,680 --> 00:45:46,719
Speaker 13: not husband of the year, he's not boyfriend of the year.

796
00:45:47,040 --> 00:45:48,840
Speaker 12: But he did not cause the death.

797
00:45:49,320 --> 00:45:51,160
Speaker 13: And I think they're going to have a hard time

798
00:45:51,239 --> 00:45:56,160
Speaker 13: proving that this was in fact a homicide, particularly.

799
00:45:55,560 --> 00:45:58,120
Speaker 12: When the coroner has already found it undetermined.

800
00:45:58,560 --> 00:46:02,319
Speaker 2: Well, what about the fact Harry Alexander that he then

801
00:46:03,160 --> 00:46:07,799
Speaker 2: reports that she's been missing for a substantial period of

802
00:46:07,840 --> 00:46:12,480
Speaker 2: time and police find video of them together, like seventy

803
00:46:12,480 --> 00:46:14,680
Speaker 2: two hours before he reports her missing, saying, what, she's

804
00:46:14,680 --> 00:46:17,840
Speaker 2: been gone for months or weeks, So why lie about

805
00:46:17,840 --> 00:46:19,680
Speaker 2: it if there's nothing the furious going on?

806
00:46:20,239 --> 00:46:20,479
Speaker 16: Right?

807
00:46:20,560 --> 00:46:23,279
Speaker 14: I mean, that's true, Nancy, And I think it goes

808
00:46:23,320 --> 00:46:25,480
Speaker 14: to the point that you can have somebody who is

809
00:46:25,600 --> 00:46:28,759
Speaker 14: objectively smart. I mean, you don't get to be a

810
00:46:29,000 --> 00:46:32,040
Speaker 14: partner in a top law firm without being intelligent.

811
00:46:32,480 --> 00:46:35,000
Speaker 21: And yet on the other hand, you know, we do

812
00:46:35,120 --> 00:46:39,000
Speaker 21: things that are really very stupid, like the fact that

813
00:46:39,080 --> 00:46:41,520
Speaker 21: he claimed that he hadn't seen her for a while,

814
00:46:41,520 --> 00:46:43,919
Speaker 21: that she had been missing for months, and yet there's

815
00:46:43,960 --> 00:46:46,880
Speaker 21: surveillance footage of them together.

816
00:46:46,920 --> 00:46:49,240
Speaker 9: In that actual apartment three days before.

817
00:46:49,719 --> 00:46:53,160
Speaker 14: So you know, that rapidly unravels, and it really doesn't

818
00:46:53,160 --> 00:46:56,000
Speaker 14: help his case because a jury is going to look

819
00:46:56,040 --> 00:46:58,320
Speaker 14: at that and think you can't be trusted.

820
00:46:58,680 --> 00:47:03,160
Speaker 2: And even to the her and he flies with her

821
00:47:03,320 --> 00:47:06,160
Speaker 2: family over what's left her remains.

822
00:47:06,719 --> 00:47:09,800
Speaker 22: We can't imagine why he would want to keep Caitlin

823
00:47:10,440 --> 00:47:13,319
Speaker 22: away from her family. Even now, we will continue to

824
00:47:13,320 --> 00:47:16,920
Speaker 22: fight until Caitlin is laid to rest, surrounded by family

825
00:47:16,920 --> 00:47:18,160
Speaker 22: who loved and supported her.

826
00:47:18,440 --> 00:47:22,200
Speaker 19: Without proof of involvement in Caitlyn's death, Beckerink is released

827
00:47:22,280 --> 00:47:25,399
Speaker 19: and wants custody of her remains, but her parents file

828
00:47:25,480 --> 00:47:28,200
Speaker 19: a motion to prevent their daughter from again coming under

829
00:47:28,239 --> 00:47:32,840
Speaker 19: her accused abuser's control. Doctor Monica and Andrew Tracy cite

830
00:47:32,880 --> 00:47:35,720
Speaker 19: the accusations in Caitlin's order of protection.

831
00:47:35,680 --> 00:47:38,000
Speaker 1: And the domestic violence case against.

832
00:47:37,600 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 19: Beckerink as reasons her remain should be released to them,

833
00:47:41,080 --> 00:47:44,160
Speaker 19: not her husband of just six months. After a heated

834
00:47:44,239 --> 00:47:47,400
Speaker 19: legal battle, a judge agrees with the Tracys, allowing them

835
00:47:47,480 --> 00:47:48,760
Speaker 19: to lay Caitlin to rest.

836
00:47:49,480 --> 00:47:52,760
Speaker 2: From ABC seven Chicago as we go to air tonight,

837
00:47:53,280 --> 00:47:59,680
Speaker 2: the husband in this case, Adam Beckernk, is presumed innocent.

838
00:48:00,840 --> 00:48:04,640
Speaker 1: In the death of his young wife, Caitlin.

839
00:48:05,320 --> 00:48:08,320
Speaker 2: If you know or think you know anything about this case,

840
00:48:08,400 --> 00:48:12,920
Speaker 2: even if you think it's inconsequential, please dial three one

841
00:48:13,000 --> 00:48:17,080
Speaker 2: two seven four six six thousand, repeat three one two

842
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:19,920
Speaker 2: seven four six six thousand.

843
00:48:20,280 --> 00:48:24,799
Speaker 1: And if you or someone you know is.

844
00:48:25,040 --> 00:48:31,399
Speaker 2: A victim of domestic violence, please dial toll free eight

845
00:48:31,520 --> 00:48:38,240
Speaker 2: hundred seven ninety nine, Safe Safe eight hundred seven nine

846
00:48:38,520 --> 00:48:45,440
Speaker 2: nine seven two three three Nancy Gray signing off Goodbye Friend,