WEBVTT - Tom Cavanagh

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<v Speaker 1>Bateman goes in and silence and I'm like that sucks,

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<v Speaker 1>you know. He walks out. He's like verbatim, now I

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<v Speaker 1>won't be getting that role. And he sits beside me

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<v Speaker 1>the two forlorn guys. Third guy goes in and it's deafening.

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<v Speaker 1>The laughter is deafening. Like they just he's the funniest

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<v Speaker 1>guy ever, you know what I mean. And they poke

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<v Speaker 1>the heads out and they look at Jason and like

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<v Speaker 1>you guys can go, you know, like, okay, thank you.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi.

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<v Speaker 1>My name is Tom Cavanaugh, and Brian is an equal

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<v Speaker 1>opportunity employer because he's hired me, a Canadian, to be

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<v Speaker 1>on his podcast. Thank you for having me.

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<v Speaker 2>Hello everybody, and welcome back. Thank you for joining us

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<v Speaker 2>on a very special episode of Off the Beat. He's

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<v Speaker 2>gonna be a wild and bumpy ride. I can assure

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<v Speaker 2>you that I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. But more importantly,

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<v Speaker 2>my guest today is Well, he's very, very impressive. Some

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<v Speaker 2>might even say he's a superhero. Okay, well not a superhero,

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<v Speaker 2>but a super villain. That's right with me today is

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<v Speaker 2>The Flashes. Tom Cavanaugh aka Sherlock Wells aka Reverse Flash

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<v Speaker 2>aka Harrison wells, Tom is well, he's amazing. He is

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<v Speaker 2>so amazing that he plays multiple versions of his character

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<v Speaker 2>on the Flash. Now. I don't even know what the

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<v Speaker 2>alter egos of Kevin Malone would look like, but hey,

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<v Speaker 2>I guess, I guess I'll have to ask Tom today.

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<v Speaker 2>He's going to get into all of it, from his

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<v Speaker 2>early days working in Canada, to joining the cast of

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<v Speaker 2>Ed with our old friend Julie Bowen, to starring on Broadway,

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<v Speaker 2>to his new game show. Hey, Yahoo, man, he can

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<v Speaker 2>he can do it all. He can do it all,

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<v Speaker 2>he can play it all, and he can make me laugh.

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<v Speaker 2>Here we go. Everybody, buckle up, Tom Kavanaugh, Bubble and Squeak.

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<v Speaker 2>I love it. Bubble and Squeak.

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<v Speaker 1>I know.

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<v Speaker 2>Bubble and Squeaker Cook.

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<v Speaker 3>Get every moment lift over from the nine before.

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<v Speaker 2>Hi, Tom, Hey, how are you?

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<v Speaker 1>How's the guy?

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, the guy's okay today? How how's the guy?

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<v Speaker 1>He's good today?

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<v Speaker 2>He's good.

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<v Speaker 1>I'm not complaining.

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<v Speaker 2>Oh that's good. Nobody will care anyway, Nobody. They don't care.

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<v Speaker 1>They say they care if it is advantageous to their positioning,

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<v Speaker 1>but they don't really care.

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<v Speaker 2>No, they don't care at all. Why would they care.

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<v Speaker 1>They well they care because you're famous, Brian. But that's

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<v Speaker 1>just again, that's just that's just trying to that's their

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<v Speaker 1>own agenda. They're advancing their position. You know.

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<v Speaker 2>Well that makes some sense for them, right.

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<v Speaker 1>So it's like me and Obama. It's the same thing

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<v Speaker 1>that everybody they they don't want me, they want to

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<v Speaker 1>talk to the president. It's the same I get you

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<v Speaker 1>get used to you know how it is.

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<v Speaker 2>I get it. No, I totally get it.

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<v Speaker 1>Align yourself with the president and everybody wants a crash

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<v Speaker 1>on your count that's how that goes.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, exactly. By the way, can we get him

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<v Speaker 2>on next week?

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<v Speaker 1>Yeah? Look, I'm just gonna I'll talk to I'll talk

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<v Speaker 1>to be okay. You know, like he's one of those

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<v Speaker 1>guys he's gonna say yes to everything, okay, And then

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<v Speaker 1>his people are going to contact you. They're gonna be

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<v Speaker 1>like Barrock loves your podcast. Like you'll get him on,

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<v Speaker 1>for sure, you'll get him on. Yeah, But does it happen?

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<v Speaker 1>Does it happen next week? I don't know.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, maybe maybe not.

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<v Speaker 1>Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I'm not saying no,

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<v Speaker 1>I'm going to put in a good word, but does

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<v Speaker 1>it happen next week? No guarantee.

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<v Speaker 2>I mean, look, I have seen a letter that he

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<v Speaker 2>wrote that says Thursday night is the office nights at

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<v Speaker 2>the White House. Well I've I've seen the note.

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<v Speaker 1>Right, Well then I feel like I feel that I

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<v Speaker 1>feel next week is a shoe in. Something must have

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<v Speaker 1>slipped through the tracks for him to not have done

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<v Speaker 1>it already.

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<v Speaker 2>I know, or he hasn't been invited yet. Maybe we

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<v Speaker 2>Maybe it's a simple as that, maybe that should happen.

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<v Speaker 1>He's a wiling way. He's like twiddling his thumbs, biting

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<v Speaker 1>his time, just kind of like not trying to be

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<v Speaker 1>a dick about it, Like sure those guys will.

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<v Speaker 2>Give me an invitement some point in time.

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<v Speaker 1>I know, like he's basically how I was up until today.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, now time and now it's here, and now it's here.

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<v Speaker 2>Here we are actually we're basically blood brothers. That's the

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<v Speaker 2>wrong term, but I'm not going to use the other one.

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<v Speaker 2>Julie Bowen, I was Julie Bowen's on screen love interest

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<v Speaker 2>right immediately following You done.

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<v Speaker 1>And she was very clear, she was very clear to

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<v Speaker 1>me that I was a rung on a ladder. She

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<v Speaker 1>was very upfront about it, because if you know Julie,

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<v Speaker 1>you know she's honest. She's like, I'm going places.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know it's going to be.

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<v Speaker 1>You, Brian, and then if I have a shot at it,

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<v Speaker 1>Tiberell and so.

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<v Speaker 2>And so.

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<v Speaker 1>I just respect the honesty, right, Like she's like a

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<v Speaker 1>gal's got to start somewhere. Nice to meet you. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>Julie Bowen, ivy league educated, swear like a sailor, smart

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<v Speaker 1>as they come, swip snap.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah and then see you later. Yeah that is that

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<v Speaker 2>is so true. Swear It's like a sailor but super smart. Yeah,

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<v Speaker 2>she's like a whole bunch of things and delightful. All right,

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<v Speaker 2>enough about Barack and Julie Bowen. You famously, I would say,

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<v Speaker 2>famously grew up.

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<v Speaker 1>No matter what you say next, it's not going to

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<v Speaker 1>be true. Yeah, famously you proceed Tom Cavanaugh and then

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<v Speaker 1>famously it's just like all you're out like you're across

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<v Speaker 1>a big X. Grew up in Canada, Sure I did,

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<v Speaker 1>but not famously.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I knew that

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<v Speaker 2>before I actually researched. I feel like, oh, yeah, that's.

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<v Speaker 1>Because that's because you know, Julie and she's like, you

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<v Speaker 1>know what, Canadians are good for stepping the stones. I'm

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<v Speaker 1>sure that's how that came up in your head. You're like,

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<v Speaker 1>I guess people know that about it. Like, no, no,

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<v Speaker 1>you're the guy that followed the guy.

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<v Speaker 2>You grew up in Canada but then Ghana. Yeah, so

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<v Speaker 2>you how much time did you spend there?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I just got to say I want to congratulate

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<v Speaker 1>you on doing some vestige of homework because, by God,

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<v Speaker 1>like you've got enough stuff going on in your day,

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<v Speaker 1>you don't have to look up.

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<v Speaker 2>I've got pages.

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<v Speaker 1>Okay, hey, we don't need that, my friend. First off,

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<v Speaker 1>we've got pages. Your viewer slash listeners don't need anything.

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<v Speaker 1>Any information on me is not going to further them.

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<v Speaker 1>They're like, oh, I spent some time in Africa, so

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<v Speaker 1>what you know? But yeah I did. Let's get it

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<v Speaker 1>out of the way. Yes you did. My parents are teachers.

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<v Speaker 1>We were in Africa. We grew up without film and

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<v Speaker 1>television and any of the modern stuff that the current

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<v Speaker 1>society has. When I can say from my own experience,

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<v Speaker 1>tremendous way to grow up. And then we moved back

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<v Speaker 1>to North America for like high school years, basically, and

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<v Speaker 1>we had to learn to swear and play organized sports

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<v Speaker 1>and that worked out just fine.

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<v Speaker 2>You say, it's a fantastic way to grow up. Why

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<v Speaker 2>was it fantastic? How did it shape you?

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<v Speaker 1>Well, I have no basis of comparison.

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<v Speaker 2>Well, that's all right, fair, right, So I.

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<v Speaker 1>Don't really know, but I look at I don't consider

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<v Speaker 1>social media to be healthy, and this was like the

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<v Speaker 1>precursor to some of that was just whatever we had

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<v Speaker 1>as youngsters growing up in the eighteen hundreds, and so

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<v Speaker 1>we basically ran around raiding coconut farms and chasing snakes

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<v Speaker 1>and inventing things mentally. I think one of the reasons

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<v Speaker 1>I am an actor is because your imagination was everything.

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<v Speaker 1>Like you just had to either if you were going

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<v Speaker 1>to have a good day, you also had to have

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<v Speaker 1>a good imagination. There was no other stimuli really, I

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<v Speaker 1>mean apart from the aesthetic beauty of the dark continent.

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<v Speaker 1>So we you know, we were always were making up games.

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<v Speaker 1>We're playing games and I guess still doing it today, right.

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<v Speaker 2>My sister and I were just talking about riding big

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<v Speaker 2>wheels through the woods like fast downhill, playing dukes of hazard.

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<v Speaker 2>When I was a kid like that was what we

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<v Speaker 2>were doing and playing and embodying the roles. Obviously you're

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<v Speaker 2>talking about stuff like that. Were you also performing at

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<v Speaker 2>all in front of people? Was that a part of

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<v Speaker 2>the culture there in Ghana?

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<v Speaker 1>Or I would say not, No, I assume whoever. You know,

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<v Speaker 1>we had friends that we would just run around and

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like I say, do things, and I think,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, like everybody was kind of like, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>you're you're whatever, you're six, seven, eight years old, nine

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<v Speaker 1>years old, you're showing off, you're doing whatever the thing is.

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<v Speaker 1>So is it performing? I guess it is, you know,

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<v Speaker 1>but there's no organized Hey, we're doing a school play

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<v Speaker 1>kind of thing.

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<v Speaker 2>Hell, I think we did.

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<v Speaker 1>I think I think we did the King and I

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<v Speaker 1>but you know, like it's an outdoor theater. I remember

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<v Speaker 1>vividly the parents because you know, imagine being a parent

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<v Speaker 1>and not being able to provide any kind of pageantry,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, if you've got to if people are going

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<v Speaker 1>to take their kids whatever the latest, you know, like

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<v Speaker 1>Pixar releases, that's an event, right or this thing was

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<v Speaker 1>coming out and we had zero none of that, you know.

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<v Speaker 1>So if you think about the amount of time that

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<v Speaker 1>today's youth in many ways necessarily so spent time in

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<v Speaker 1>front of a screen. You know, it's it's kind of

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<v Speaker 1>stunning to think about an existence where nothing like that

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<v Speaker 1>was an option. And so what do you do with

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<v Speaker 1>your time? In Africa? It was too hot to have

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<v Speaker 1>school in the afternoon, so we had school from a

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<v Speaker 1>thirty to twelve thirty and then in the afternoon, what

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<v Speaker 1>were you going to do? So it was books, books, books, books,

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<v Speaker 1>and play play, play play and imagination, imagination, imagination. But

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<v Speaker 1>I do remember the adults deciding that, you know, they

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<v Speaker 1>needed to offer the kids something. And back in the

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<v Speaker 1>day there was stuff like the carober Neet Variety Show,

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<v Speaker 1>and so they sort of did a mimicked version of

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<v Speaker 1>something like that, where you know, like Sonny and Cher

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<v Speaker 1>would come up and sing and then there would be

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<v Speaker 1>a comment bit, and then there'd be a musical bit, right,

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<v Speaker 1>you know, and the kids we're outdoors and on front

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<v Speaker 1>of this like stage, watching these you know, amateur performers.

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<v Speaker 1>But I remember as a child sitting there, going, this

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<v Speaker 1>is incredible. You know, all the lights and its darken

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<v Speaker 1>thing and the palm trees and the stars. You're like this,

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<v Speaker 1>this is amazing. I have no idea if that had

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<v Speaker 1>any other kind of like effect on me. But under

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<v Speaker 1>those circumstances, it was kind of amazing to see performance

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<v Speaker 1>up in front of you.

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<v Speaker 2>Yeah, what about music? Are you singing? Are you making

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<v Speaker 2>up songs? Are you performing songs?

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<v Speaker 1>Are you My mother is a music teacher, so yeah,

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<v Speaker 1>all the time. And she went she went back to Africa.

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<v Speaker 1>When there's five children, they all we're all like university age.

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<v Speaker 1>And she went back for another three years and again

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<v Speaker 1>was heavily involved in the music and watching the influence

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<v Speaker 1>of a small town Canadian woman, you know, like take

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<v Speaker 1>the music that she knew and then like have a

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<v Speaker 1>mishmash of all the African culture music that she was

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<v Speaker 1>exposed to, and putting on those types of performances. Very

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<v Speaker 1>very cool. So the music was, you know, from as

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<v Speaker 1>long back as I can remember, always always in the house,

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<v Speaker 1>Like everybody in the family plays instruments, everybody sings, everybody,

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<v Speaker 1>everybody performs. When they moved back to North America, my

0:12:22.679 --> 0:12:25.400
<v Speaker 1>mother was ahead of choir and she was doing community

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<v Speaker 1>theater and the head of like the music acts and

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<v Speaker 1>stuff like that. So it was it was always around.

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<v Speaker 1>And I got my start. I don't know about you, Like,

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<v Speaker 1>did you I I got my start doing musicals.

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<v Speaker 2>Yes, that's partly why I'm asking. Yeah, I mean where

0:12:38.480 --> 0:12:41.319
<v Speaker 2>it was. Did you believe that that's what you were

0:12:41.360 --> 0:12:44.000
<v Speaker 2>going to do? Musical, musical theater, singing?

0:12:44.559 --> 0:12:46.200
<v Speaker 1>How how many musicals have you done?

0:12:46.840 --> 0:12:52.000
<v Speaker 2>Talk singing? There's nobody better, there's nobody better. You need,

0:12:52.520 --> 0:12:56.640
<v Speaker 2>you need general notes surrounded by rhythm with a hint

0:12:56.720 --> 0:13:01.200
<v Speaker 2>of comedy. I'm your man. Reg Harrison Rex Harris had

0:13:01.320 --> 0:13:08.520
<v Speaker 2>nothing on me, not nothing but a real, real singing.

0:13:08.600 --> 0:13:10.200
<v Speaker 2>I mean I did it when I was a kid.

0:13:10.240 --> 0:13:12.480
<v Speaker 2>I was in the choir, and then I was in

0:13:12.520 --> 0:13:16.520
<v Speaker 2>the special choir and had the solos and stuff. It's

0:13:16.520 --> 0:13:19.440
<v Speaker 2>not pretty, I mean for me, and then I just

0:13:19.800 --> 0:13:23.360
<v Speaker 2>I just started, you know, once I graduated from school

0:13:23.360 --> 0:13:26.840
<v Speaker 2>and became and really moving into college and really studying,

0:13:27.679 --> 0:13:30.960
<v Speaker 2>the music went away. It just yeah, I mean I

0:13:30.960 --> 0:13:33.680
<v Speaker 2>think I knew in my soul that was not going

0:13:33.760 --> 0:13:34.640
<v Speaker 2>to be my path.

0:13:35.080 --> 0:13:38.680
<v Speaker 1>Got unlike you, but you could you could always Like

0:13:38.760 --> 0:13:40.400
<v Speaker 1>that's the whole thing. It's like, it's funny that you

0:13:40.440 --> 0:13:42.720
<v Speaker 1>say that, like, and I know you're kind of like

0:13:42.960 --> 0:13:46.160
<v Speaker 1>semi tongue in cheek about it, but truly like my

0:13:46.320 --> 0:13:49.880
<v Speaker 1>experience with the musicals has been you want to have

0:13:49.880 --> 0:13:54.160
<v Speaker 1>somebody who can perform and you know, tell tell the story.

0:13:55.000 --> 0:13:58.560
<v Speaker 1>I think the audience is nowhere near caught up in

0:13:58.600 --> 0:14:01.439
<v Speaker 1>the snobbery of like how great is a voice here?

0:14:01.480 --> 0:14:03.240
<v Speaker 1>Let me give you a perfect example. Has Alan coming

0:14:03.320 --> 0:14:04.640
<v Speaker 1>done your podcast yet?

0:14:04.920 --> 0:14:07.560
<v Speaker 2>No? But I but I have to say, I wasn't

0:14:07.559 --> 0:14:10.080
<v Speaker 2>like one of those like, oh, musicals are dumb, like

0:14:10.320 --> 0:14:12.520
<v Speaker 2>musical snobbery. It wasn't that like.

0:14:12.760 --> 0:14:16.440
<v Speaker 1>The way you might not know this, but like Julie Bowen, right,

0:14:16.920 --> 0:14:19.200
<v Speaker 1>Julie Bonen was like, I went to see the musical.

0:14:19.840 --> 0:14:21.400
<v Speaker 1>You know, we shot a show we did together in

0:14:21.440 --> 0:14:23.640
<v Speaker 1>New York. I'd go see a music with her. Her

0:14:23.640 --> 0:14:28.320
<v Speaker 1>fingernails would dig into my into my thighs as people

0:14:28.360 --> 0:14:30.320
<v Speaker 1>began as they broke into song, She's like, I don't

0:14:30.400 --> 0:14:32.360
<v Speaker 1>understand why they break into song. It never works. I

0:14:32.360 --> 0:14:34.360
<v Speaker 1>hate it when I cringe when they break into I

0:14:34.400 --> 0:14:37.000
<v Speaker 1>feel so embarrassed for them when they break into song.

0:14:38.880 --> 0:14:42.000
<v Speaker 2>I wasn't there, but I just I just kind of

0:14:42.040 --> 0:14:44.560
<v Speaker 2>had stopped, you know, in my trips to New York

0:14:44.640 --> 0:14:47.440
<v Speaker 2>or whatever it was, it was all more straight theater.

0:14:47.520 --> 0:14:54.640
<v Speaker 2>But I saw Alan coming very early on in in Cabaret, and.

0:14:54.600 --> 0:14:55.640
<v Speaker 1>This is what I'm talking about.

0:14:55.720 --> 0:14:56.760
<v Speaker 2>It was transformative.

0:14:56.960 --> 0:14:59.560
<v Speaker 1>He's spectacular, and he's spectacular. This is the whole thing.

0:14:59.560 --> 0:15:02.400
<v Speaker 1>So I've worked them, you know, and now and again

0:15:02.480 --> 0:15:05.040
<v Speaker 1>he I defy you to go, is he a good

0:15:05.120 --> 0:15:08.200
<v Speaker 1>or a bad singer? Alan's so honest and abrupt, and

0:15:09.120 --> 0:15:12.800
<v Speaker 1>you know, he's just so such a powerful persona. I

0:15:12.800 --> 0:15:17.120
<v Speaker 1>think he's spectacular, but I do know it's all performance,

0:15:17.520 --> 0:15:21.720
<v Speaker 1>Like he embodies whatever story he's telling in that song,

0:15:22.360 --> 0:15:25.720
<v Speaker 1>and it's got nothing to do with like quality of

0:15:25.800 --> 0:15:28.400
<v Speaker 1>voice or whatever the thing is. It gets somebody, you know,

0:15:28.440 --> 0:15:33.880
<v Speaker 1>acclaimed as a singer, and it's interesting to watch somebody

0:15:33.920 --> 0:15:36.040
<v Speaker 1>who can do that where you're just like if you're

0:15:36.080 --> 0:15:40.720
<v Speaker 1>a lead on Broadway and nobody's sniping at your singing

0:15:40.800 --> 0:15:45.000
<v Speaker 1>qualities because you're telling the story and he's you know,

0:15:45.120 --> 0:15:49.920
<v Speaker 1>Cabaret is a perfect example. Spectacular in Cabaret, like just untouchable,

0:15:49.960 --> 0:15:52.640
<v Speaker 1>you know. And I did that play twenty years prior

0:15:52.720 --> 0:15:56.200
<v Speaker 1>to that, and some some of the Broadway plays that

0:15:56.280 --> 0:15:59.040
<v Speaker 1>I've done, I know for a fact, and everybody who's

0:15:59.080 --> 0:16:02.080
<v Speaker 1>in the company can back me up. I'm the worst

0:16:02.120 --> 0:16:07.680
<v Speaker 1>singer on the stage, always like there's nobody poorer than me,

0:16:07.880 --> 0:16:11.920
<v Speaker 1>and you know, people, that's not self deprecating, that's not modest,

0:16:12.080 --> 0:16:15.160
<v Speaker 1>that's just plain facts. Son. And if you were to

0:16:15.200 --> 0:16:17.840
<v Speaker 1>liign people up and go who's the worst, Yeah, Tom,

0:16:17.920 --> 0:16:21.040
<v Speaker 1>Tom's the worst. He's clearly the worst, you know. And

0:16:21.120 --> 0:16:27.320
<v Speaker 1>yet like you get cast because I can tell, hopefully,

0:16:27.440 --> 0:16:30.200
<v Speaker 1>I'm telling a story. And that's why, you know, to

0:16:30.240 --> 0:16:33.880
<v Speaker 1>say Alan Cummings, like he's telling a story, You're wrapped,

0:16:34.000 --> 0:16:36.400
<v Speaker 1>you're paying attention. He's adding, like you said, when you're

0:16:36.440 --> 0:16:38.680
<v Speaker 1>talking about yourself, you want a bit of humor, whether

0:16:38.720 --> 0:16:40.880
<v Speaker 1>you didn't think there was going to be humor, he

0:16:40.920 --> 0:16:42.880
<v Speaker 1>can do that. We can do that, And suddenly people

0:16:42.880 --> 0:16:45.360
<v Speaker 1>are like they're accepting. They're not like, let me see

0:16:45.360 --> 0:16:48.960
<v Speaker 1>your card carrying membership of your high seat. Don't have it,

0:16:49.320 --> 0:16:51.520
<v Speaker 1>you know, like that's not it's not part of it.

0:16:51.520 --> 0:16:54.040
<v Speaker 1>And that was my experience for a decade. The only

0:16:54.040 --> 0:16:56.760
<v Speaker 1>other thing about that is when you're making your living

0:16:57.280 --> 0:17:01.720
<v Speaker 1>in musical theater, there's constant trauma at the fact that

0:17:01.840 --> 0:17:04.840
<v Speaker 1>you suck. So here's the story I don't think I've

0:17:04.880 --> 0:17:07.840
<v Speaker 1>ever told, not even my own podcast, by the way,

0:17:07.960 --> 0:17:11.840
<v Speaker 1>Mates Mike and Tommy. It' snaxt. So I was auditioning

0:17:12.200 --> 0:17:13.919
<v Speaker 1>for the out of town thing of this thing was

0:17:13.960 --> 0:17:16.959
<v Speaker 1>going to Broadway. Philip Rose, a kind of acclaimed New

0:17:17.040 --> 0:17:20.800
<v Speaker 1>York City director, and I had to do an acting

0:17:20.840 --> 0:17:24.240
<v Speaker 1>scene with the Venerable John Cullum where I asked for

0:17:24.280 --> 0:17:27.000
<v Speaker 1>his daughter's hand in marriage. It was a five page scene,

0:17:27.040 --> 0:17:29.119
<v Speaker 1>as they write in theater, and I was like, if

0:17:29.160 --> 0:17:31.479
<v Speaker 1>I can get to that, we're going to be okay.

0:17:31.920 --> 0:17:34.320
<v Speaker 1>But you got to sing right, And so I practiced

0:17:34.359 --> 0:17:37.480
<v Speaker 1>my song. And by this time, I was like, you know,

0:17:37.520 --> 0:17:39.840
<v Speaker 1>a good ten years or so into the career musical theater,

0:17:39.880 --> 0:17:43.560
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, I knew that. Don't come in

0:17:43.640 --> 0:17:47.479
<v Speaker 1>and sing old Man River. So I found this thing

0:17:47.520 --> 0:17:50.000
<v Speaker 1>by this guy, Bernard Cribbins, who wrote a song called

0:17:50.000 --> 0:17:52.359
<v Speaker 1>the Bird on the second Floor, and it's just basically,

0:17:52.400 --> 0:17:54.520
<v Speaker 1>like you say spoken, it's not spoken. He sings a

0:17:54.560 --> 0:17:57.040
<v Speaker 1>jolly old moon's going to shant and which way you

0:17:57.040 --> 0:17:59.240
<v Speaker 1>look at it, I'm all right, wait sing full of

0:17:59.320 --> 0:18:02.399
<v Speaker 1>the bird second floor. I'm telling all the birds that

0:18:02.440 --> 0:18:04.760
<v Speaker 1>are used to date, it's been a giggle, please don't wait.

0:18:05.040 --> 0:18:07.920
<v Speaker 1>Since I saw the Bird on the Zagon floor something

0:18:07.960 --> 0:18:10.160
<v Speaker 1>like that, and then it was there's this little pattern

0:18:10.200 --> 0:18:13.760
<v Speaker 1>in between, like, oh, second full, why don't they get

0:18:13.800 --> 0:18:16.399
<v Speaker 1>lifted here? Still? No matter what is it Thursday steaking

0:18:16.480 --> 0:18:20.440
<v Speaker 1>Kidney Pie whoa lovely because something she has got right?

0:18:20.560 --> 0:18:22.360
<v Speaker 1>You know, people are coming in singing old Man River

0:18:22.400 --> 0:18:24.199
<v Speaker 1>and they're like, then this guy walks in like and

0:18:24.240 --> 0:18:26.199
<v Speaker 1>they're just like, what the fuck is happening? You know

0:18:26.480 --> 0:18:29.800
<v Speaker 1>what's this guy doing? You know, like to distract them

0:18:30.000 --> 0:18:33.439
<v Speaker 1>from the fact that I'm not I'm no good singing wise,

0:18:33.760 --> 0:18:35.399
<v Speaker 1>you know. So I had that ready to go in

0:18:35.440 --> 0:18:37.280
<v Speaker 1>my back pocket, and then I was like nerves, like

0:18:37.280 --> 0:18:39.399
<v Speaker 1>hopefully I can sing good enough. And the guy who

0:18:39.440 --> 0:18:40.800
<v Speaker 1>went in in front of me. You know how this

0:18:40.960 --> 0:18:43.360
<v Speaker 1>is you can hear the person in the room, yeah,

0:18:43.640 --> 0:18:47.399
<v Speaker 1>ahead of you, Like I have a great thing where

0:18:48.040 --> 0:18:51.080
<v Speaker 1>Jason Bateman and I were reading for the lead role

0:18:51.119 --> 0:18:54.040
<v Speaker 1>in an ABC pilot and there was a third guy

0:18:54.119 --> 0:18:56.720
<v Speaker 1>and Bateman wasn't like doing everything at the time. It

0:18:56.800 --> 0:18:59.159
<v Speaker 1>was pre arrested development, but I knew he was a

0:18:59.160 --> 0:19:03.240
<v Speaker 1>super talented there, very nice guy, and so I got

0:19:03.280 --> 0:19:05.080
<v Speaker 1>into the studio that afternoon and they had been like

0:19:05.080 --> 0:19:07.200
<v Speaker 1>a love fest. I was like, oh, people are like, yeah,

0:19:07.280 --> 0:19:08.879
<v Speaker 1>they love you, they love you, they love you, and

0:19:09.160 --> 0:19:11.120
<v Speaker 1>you're gonna you're gonna be great. This is your role,

0:19:11.160 --> 0:19:13.040
<v Speaker 1>blah blah, you're the front runner, all this stuff which

0:19:13.080 --> 0:19:15.199
<v Speaker 1>you never want to hear. Then I go in and

0:19:15.240 --> 0:19:17.080
<v Speaker 1>I do the exact same read, and I know the

0:19:17.160 --> 0:19:19.280
<v Speaker 1>fact that the read was good more a tyranny. This

0:19:19.320 --> 0:19:21.359
<v Speaker 1>is all name dropping. Kevin Bagan told me never drop

0:19:21.359 --> 0:19:23.840
<v Speaker 1>a name, but this is your podcast, and I'll never

0:19:23.880 --> 0:19:27.520
<v Speaker 1>forget her looking at me like as the silence descended

0:19:27.520 --> 0:19:30.720
<v Speaker 1>and Tumbleweeds blew through and you could hear a distant

0:19:30.760 --> 0:19:33.680
<v Speaker 1>wolf thing in the background, and nobody said anything, just

0:19:33.760 --> 0:19:36.040
<v Speaker 1>kind of stared at me, and I was like hmm,

0:19:36.040 --> 0:19:37.880
<v Speaker 1>and I was like, so I walk out. I went

0:19:37.920 --> 0:19:40.520
<v Speaker 1>in first, I'm like, holy crap. And then they make

0:19:40.560 --> 0:19:43.480
<v Speaker 1>you wait around, right, and so so you're just like

0:19:43.560 --> 0:19:45.679
<v Speaker 1>so you can like then be told to in person

0:19:45.880 --> 0:19:46.880
<v Speaker 1>you were awful.

0:19:48.160 --> 0:19:49.560
<v Speaker 2>So you can go now.

0:19:49.800 --> 0:19:52.160
<v Speaker 1>Yes, I did all the same stuff. I watched Silence.

0:19:52.560 --> 0:19:57.480
<v Speaker 1>Bateman goes in and Silence and I'm like that sucks,

0:19:57.960 --> 0:20:01.199
<v Speaker 1>you know. He walks out. He's like Beta, now I

0:20:01.200 --> 0:20:04.359
<v Speaker 1>won't be getting that role. And he sits beside me

0:20:04.600 --> 0:20:08.120
<v Speaker 1>the two forlorn guys. Third guy goes in and it's deafening.

0:20:08.240 --> 0:20:11.959
<v Speaker 1>The laughter is deafening, Like they just he's the funniest

0:20:11.960 --> 0:20:14.200
<v Speaker 1>guy ever, you know what I mean. Then they poke

0:20:14.240 --> 0:20:15.639
<v Speaker 1>the heads out and they look at Jason and like

0:20:16.040 --> 0:20:17.080
<v Speaker 1>you guys can go.

0:20:18.240 --> 0:20:18.399
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:20:18.760 --> 0:20:21.719
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, okay, thank you. I don't know why I started.

0:20:21.800 --> 0:20:24.360
<v Speaker 1>Oh yeah. So then so I'm auditioning for this play

0:20:24.440 --> 0:20:26.080
<v Speaker 1>that's going the Broadway. And the guy goes in in

0:20:26.080 --> 0:20:28.280
<v Speaker 1>front of me, and guess what he sayings Brian old

0:20:28.320 --> 0:20:30.760
<v Speaker 1>Man River and he starts off like and I can

0:20:30.840 --> 0:20:36.320
<v Speaker 1>hear everything like and he builds to this giant crescendo,

0:20:36.400 --> 0:20:39.040
<v Speaker 1>and the walls of the place are shaken, you know,

0:20:39.440 --> 0:20:44.199
<v Speaker 1>speak its rolling, you know. And he comes out and

0:20:44.240 --> 0:20:46.320
<v Speaker 1>there's like applause, like you're twenty people in the room

0:20:46.359 --> 0:20:48.359
<v Speaker 1>and you can hear him clapping, and then it's like

0:20:49.000 --> 0:20:59.280
<v Speaker 1>door opens, tom So, so I go on, exactly, this

0:20:59.359 --> 0:21:01.360
<v Speaker 1>is what the just says to me. You know, they're

0:21:01.440 --> 0:21:04.680
<v Speaker 1>Jason Bateman and me. Even he gets up on the table.

0:21:04.720 --> 0:21:07.120
<v Speaker 1>He's like one hundred and sixty years old, and he

0:21:07.160 --> 0:21:09.800
<v Speaker 1>walks over and his like tweed coat, you know, his

0:21:09.880 --> 0:21:13.119
<v Speaker 1>big Big Glasses comes over and he kind of he

0:21:13.119 --> 0:21:15.000
<v Speaker 1>does this, he crosses his arms, he kind of like

0:21:15.119 --> 0:21:17.240
<v Speaker 1>purses his lips and kind of like rubs his chin,

0:21:18.200 --> 0:21:25.440
<v Speaker 1>and he's like, did you bring anything real to sing?

0:21:27.400 --> 0:21:32.000
<v Speaker 1>So that I go? So that didn't work, so I say,

0:21:32.240 --> 0:21:35.960
<v Speaker 1>why don't you give me what I will have to

0:21:36.000 --> 0:21:38.520
<v Speaker 1>sing in the play, which kind of feels a little

0:21:38.520 --> 0:21:40.639
<v Speaker 1>bit like the death mell. But then he's like, all right,

0:21:40.680 --> 0:21:44.440
<v Speaker 1>well let's read first. I'm like, aha, we do the read.

0:21:44.720 --> 0:21:47.280
<v Speaker 1>It's like it's pratt Fall City because he's got to

0:21:47.320 --> 0:21:50.000
<v Speaker 1>be and you know, the red is like goes swimmingly well,

0:21:50.240 --> 0:21:53.479
<v Speaker 1>and I can feel the whole room change, Like this

0:21:53.560 --> 0:21:58.879
<v Speaker 1>guy doesn't have to be a great singer. You know,

0:21:58.720 --> 0:22:01.280
<v Speaker 1>you end up getting the up, getting the part, but

0:22:01.320 --> 0:22:03.280
<v Speaker 1>it is the Alan Coming of it all. It's just like, look,

0:22:03.840 --> 0:22:06.199
<v Speaker 1>you know, like let's have a couple of really fancy,

0:22:06.200 --> 0:22:08.760
<v Speaker 1>great singers in your show and then we can have me.

0:22:09.040 --> 0:22:10.960
<v Speaker 1>You know, It's like we do we have a slot for?

0:22:11.400 --> 0:22:15.959
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, you know this guy. It's crazy because I don't

0:22:16.040 --> 0:22:18.600
<v Speaker 2>think I mean just that you brought up Alan Coming,

0:22:18.600 --> 0:22:21.160
<v Speaker 2>because I don't think you could have pulled any other name,

0:22:21.920 --> 0:22:26.280
<v Speaker 2>Like I loved the performance so much, I would like

0:22:26.280 --> 0:22:29.199
<v Speaker 2>like not changed my life. But like, but if you

0:22:29.240 --> 0:22:32.320
<v Speaker 2>had followed that up like, oh did you see Alan coming? Oh? Yeah,

0:22:32.359 --> 0:22:34.760
<v Speaker 2>he was amazing. If you had followed up that and

0:22:35.080 --> 0:22:40.560
<v Speaker 2>said is he a good singer? I couldn't have answered

0:22:40.600 --> 0:22:44.879
<v Speaker 2>the question like truly, so your point is well taken,

0:22:45.000 --> 0:22:49.000
<v Speaker 2>Like I would probably have said something like I assume, yeah,

0:22:49.160 --> 0:22:53.160
<v Speaker 2>yeah he must have been because he was so good. Well,

0:22:53.200 --> 0:22:55.920
<v Speaker 2>you may have changed my life today because I keep

0:22:55.960 --> 0:23:01.400
<v Speaker 2>getting approached or I have been approached to do some musicals.

0:23:01.480 --> 0:23:02.800
<v Speaker 2>I've been nervous.

0:23:02.920 --> 0:23:05.080
<v Speaker 1>You got to do it. I feel like as a

0:23:05.080 --> 0:23:07.800
<v Speaker 1>guy who's done like, you know, a couple thousand musicals

0:23:07.840 --> 0:23:11.679
<v Speaker 1>and sucks, you know, like there's always that complete terror.

0:23:12.480 --> 0:23:15.280
<v Speaker 1>But you know as well as I do, like good

0:23:15.320 --> 0:23:17.359
<v Speaker 1>things can come from that, you know, like good things

0:23:17.359 --> 0:23:18.680
<v Speaker 1>can come from like all right, I'm just going to

0:23:19.200 --> 0:23:21.080
<v Speaker 1>work as hard as I can to not make a

0:23:21.119 --> 0:23:23.639
<v Speaker 1>complete and utter fool of myself in front of all

0:23:23.680 --> 0:23:26.399
<v Speaker 1>these people. And then like you, you know, you're literally

0:23:26.440 --> 0:23:29.760
<v Speaker 1>fighting for survival, you know, and everywhere you are around you,

0:23:30.200 --> 0:23:33.640
<v Speaker 1>at least my experience, everybody is like much better than

0:23:33.640 --> 0:23:36.439
<v Speaker 1>you in at least one facet of being able to

0:23:36.440 --> 0:23:39.080
<v Speaker 1>tell the tale. And so it's just like it sharpens

0:23:39.119 --> 0:23:42.280
<v Speaker 1>your game a little bit. You become like better at survival,

0:23:42.320 --> 0:23:44.480
<v Speaker 1>you become like the things that you're good at, you

0:23:44.520 --> 0:23:46.720
<v Speaker 1>have to really home them. You can't take a day off,

0:23:47.119 --> 0:23:48.720
<v Speaker 1>you know, you have to work as hard as you can.

0:23:48.840 --> 0:23:51.320
<v Speaker 1>And it makes you better, you know, just you know,

0:23:51.600 --> 0:23:53.919
<v Speaker 1>have a decade of terror for me, Like oh bo

0:23:53.960 --> 0:23:55.560
<v Speaker 1>I hear we go. I remember, like I did this

0:23:55.680 --> 0:23:58.399
<v Speaker 1>play year in town and I remember before going on

0:23:58.480 --> 0:24:01.480
<v Speaker 1>to Broadway for the first time, I'm about to make

0:24:01.520 --> 0:24:03.800
<v Speaker 1>my entrance and I have to sing shortly thereafter. I

0:24:03.800 --> 0:24:06.960
<v Speaker 1>remember like the lights going on and like count happening.

0:24:06.960 --> 0:24:09.399
<v Speaker 1>I remember in my head going, who the hell do

0:24:09.480 --> 0:24:12.920
<v Speaker 1>you think you are? Like that was ringing in my head.

0:24:13.240 --> 0:24:16.160
<v Speaker 1>What are you think you're doing? You know what I mean?

0:24:16.600 --> 0:24:20.520
<v Speaker 1>And it's like always a constant fight against like oh boy,

0:24:20.880 --> 0:24:23.280
<v Speaker 1>you know, like just trying to like all right, let's

0:24:23.280 --> 0:24:24.520
<v Speaker 1>see if I can get away. Let's see if I can

0:24:24.560 --> 0:24:26.720
<v Speaker 1>get away with this one. But it's you're not going

0:24:26.800 --> 0:24:28.720
<v Speaker 1>to go on and go like oh, I'm really surprised

0:24:28.720 --> 0:24:30.880
<v Speaker 1>by that. There's nothing that they can throw at you.

0:24:30.960 --> 0:24:33.960
<v Speaker 1>I think in front of a camera that you're going

0:24:34.000 --> 0:24:37.520
<v Speaker 1>to say, oh that terrified me today. You know, like

0:24:37.600 --> 0:24:41.840
<v Speaker 1>you you're just but being in front of like the

0:24:41.920 --> 0:24:45.640
<v Speaker 1>audience and doing the musical. You know, there's there's there's

0:24:45.720 --> 0:24:48.840
<v Speaker 1>built in terror there and that's not a bad in

0:24:48.920 --> 0:24:51.960
<v Speaker 1>terms of like living your life and experiences and stuff like.

0:24:52.000 --> 0:24:54.520
<v Speaker 1>I you know, I assume you're gonna win a Tony

0:24:54.800 --> 0:24:56.800
<v Speaker 1>for the next thing, and I'm going to be so

0:24:56.920 --> 0:24:59.399
<v Speaker 1>furious when you're like, you know, I always want to

0:24:59.760 --> 0:25:00.560
<v Speaker 1>know what gonna mention?

0:25:01.119 --> 0:25:03.240
<v Speaker 2>No talk of this, No, I'll bring it. I will

0:25:03.280 --> 0:25:05.280
<v Speaker 2>bring it up, for sure, I'll bring it up.

0:25:05.400 --> 0:25:16.919
<v Speaker 3>Yeah, you will get you'll get thanked, Okay, you'll get thankes.

0:25:27.960 --> 0:25:32.680
<v Speaker 2>So back to Canada. You're doing theater, you're doing musical, theater,

0:25:32.800 --> 0:25:36.800
<v Speaker 2>You're doing a little bit of everything. You like. Pamela Anderson,

0:25:37.240 --> 0:25:39.200
<v Speaker 2>Uh do some work for Le Bat Blue.

0:25:39.320 --> 0:25:41.280
<v Speaker 1>I feel like that's the first time we've been using

0:25:41.320 --> 0:25:44.080
<v Speaker 1>the same sentence, thank you for that. Uh pretty sure?

0:25:44.160 --> 0:25:45.320
<v Speaker 2>Really that's good.

0:25:45.760 --> 0:25:47.959
<v Speaker 1>Oh no, wait, there is another one that Tom Kavanaugh.

0:25:48.040 --> 0:25:50.520
<v Speaker 1>He's no Pamela Anderson, that's the other sentence.

0:25:51.000 --> 0:25:54.560
<v Speaker 2>Oh right, that was my other joke. Production in Canada

0:25:55.800 --> 0:25:58.520
<v Speaker 2>similar to the United States. Oh me, you do some

0:25:58.640 --> 0:26:01.840
<v Speaker 2>others up. Jake and the Kid is an early television

0:26:01.880 --> 0:26:02.760
<v Speaker 2>show that you do.

0:26:02.840 --> 0:26:04.720
<v Speaker 1>Throwing me the fact that you put in this much.

0:26:05.160 --> 0:26:06.600
<v Speaker 1>I feel like I got to up my game and

0:26:06.680 --> 0:26:10.480
<v Speaker 1>provide you with some socking kind of entertainment. Thank God

0:26:10.520 --> 0:26:14.760
<v Speaker 1>for the enviet But yeah, it's an interesting thing. I think,

0:26:14.840 --> 0:26:19.480
<v Speaker 1>like you, I don't like talking about myself. It's and

0:26:19.760 --> 0:26:22.560
<v Speaker 1>that's all we are doing on this stupid thing. But

0:26:23.040 --> 0:26:25.399
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate you and respect you, so I'm gonna like,

0:26:25.560 --> 0:26:28.879
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna do my best. It is the same because

0:26:28.880 --> 0:26:33.160
<v Speaker 1>of the cultural difference between the two places. It provides

0:26:33.200 --> 0:26:35.439
<v Speaker 1>you with something that I think is I don't know

0:26:35.440 --> 0:26:39.240
<v Speaker 1>if the word is necessary, but extremely helpful to a

0:26:39.240 --> 0:26:43.679
<v Speaker 1>young actor in that the grips are they're moving the

0:26:43.680 --> 0:26:47.200
<v Speaker 1>c stands, you know, the gaffers, you know, fixing the

0:26:47.960 --> 0:26:51.080
<v Speaker 1>keno like that. It's all the same the sand bags

0:26:51.119 --> 0:26:55.080
<v Speaker 1>were putting the sand bags down. It's all the same set.

0:26:55.400 --> 0:26:59.359
<v Speaker 1>There's a confluence of blunstone boots, there's you know, there's

0:26:59.480 --> 0:27:03.000
<v Speaker 1>a lot of wearing smoking, and as long as you

0:27:03.040 --> 0:27:05.920
<v Speaker 1>do your job well, you get to keep coming back.

0:27:05.960 --> 0:27:08.560
<v Speaker 1>I've often felt that like the Crew in many ways

0:27:08.760 --> 0:27:11.880
<v Speaker 1>are people that figured out that their favorite subject often

0:27:12.359 --> 0:27:15.679
<v Speaker 1>in school was recess and they figured out how to

0:27:15.760 --> 0:27:18.240
<v Speaker 1>have recess full time, where it's like, look, I can

0:27:18.280 --> 0:27:20.960
<v Speaker 1>do anything. I can wear this, and I can say this,

0:27:21.440 --> 0:27:23.240
<v Speaker 1>and I can I can do this, and I can

0:27:23.280 --> 0:27:25.280
<v Speaker 1>have these tattoos and I can wear the shirt and

0:27:25.359 --> 0:27:28.000
<v Speaker 1>everything is fine because I'm good at my job, right

0:27:28.080 --> 0:27:31.520
<v Speaker 1>And you know, that's that's kind of how it is.

0:27:31.560 --> 0:27:33.600
<v Speaker 1>It's like, if you love what you do, then it's

0:27:33.640 --> 0:27:37.240
<v Speaker 1>not it's not kind of work. It's all the same feel,

0:27:37.680 --> 0:27:41.159
<v Speaker 1>it's all the same kind of thing. And then cut

0:27:41.240 --> 0:27:42.840
<v Speaker 1>and that's a wrap and you go out there and

0:27:42.880 --> 0:27:48.280
<v Speaker 1>nobody knows anything about what show you did and what

0:27:48.320 --> 0:27:51.000
<v Speaker 1>you're doing. And this is not my line. This is

0:27:51.000 --> 0:27:53.120
<v Speaker 1>a Canadian. Another Canadian actor said that there's a star

0:27:53.240 --> 0:27:56.040
<v Speaker 1>making ladder in Canada, but it lies flat on the ground.

0:27:56.400 --> 0:27:59.720
<v Speaker 1>And so so, you know, in a strange way because

0:27:59.760 --> 0:28:02.600
<v Speaker 1>of our our cultural differences, you know, like in America,

0:28:02.680 --> 0:28:08.440
<v Speaker 1>you're you're going to celebrate this kind of different from

0:28:08.480 --> 0:28:11.840
<v Speaker 1>the packability and you're going to promote it. And in

0:28:11.880 --> 0:28:16.439
<v Speaker 1>Canada there's more of a socialism aspect to the idea

0:28:16.520 --> 0:28:20.199
<v Speaker 1>that we're all in this together. Let's not be showing

0:28:20.240 --> 0:28:23.000
<v Speaker 1>off and doing all these things. If you look at

0:28:23.040 --> 0:28:25.439
<v Speaker 1>like the difference between here's the sports and OGE. If

0:28:25.440 --> 0:28:29.720
<v Speaker 1>you look at the NBA players and you know their

0:28:29.800 --> 0:28:33.280
<v Speaker 1>personas and their platforms, and then you look at the

0:28:33.400 --> 0:28:36.280
<v Speaker 1>NHL people you know, and it doesn't have to be

0:28:36.359 --> 0:28:38.320
<v Speaker 1>that way, but it's kind of almost almost famous. Be

0:28:38.440 --> 0:28:41.600
<v Speaker 1>like if you're from Timmins or Kirkland Lake, you know,

0:28:41.760 --> 0:28:43.680
<v Speaker 1>you're like, you don't need to make a big show

0:28:43.720 --> 0:28:48.560
<v Speaker 1>of yourself. And so it's for a young actor that

0:28:48.840 --> 0:28:51.720
<v Speaker 1>wants to be famous, it's not the route that you

0:28:52.280 --> 0:28:54.760
<v Speaker 1>want to take. And that's not a bad thing because

0:28:54.920 --> 0:28:56.960
<v Speaker 1>the result of that is if what you want to

0:28:57.000 --> 0:29:00.800
<v Speaker 1>do is just be famous, you'll be weed it out

0:29:01.560 --> 0:29:03.680
<v Speaker 1>and what will remain are the people that love to

0:29:03.720 --> 0:29:05.680
<v Speaker 1>do it and want to do it and want to

0:29:05.720 --> 0:29:07.840
<v Speaker 1>do it for a living and don't care about acclaim

0:29:07.920 --> 0:29:12.120
<v Speaker 1>and profile. They're there going to work, We're there. I'm

0:29:12.160 --> 0:29:13.960
<v Speaker 1>there going to work on Jaco and the Kid, which

0:29:14.760 --> 0:29:18.600
<v Speaker 1>a show I adored, you know, set in the Saskatchewan

0:29:18.680 --> 0:29:24.239
<v Speaker 1>Prairies with the stunning, awesome beauty wall to wall, you know,

0:29:24.840 --> 0:29:28.920
<v Speaker 1>fields and Big the Giant, Big Sky of the Canadian Prairies,

0:29:29.160 --> 0:29:32.560
<v Speaker 1>a show that I absolutely adored going to work on,

0:29:33.120 --> 0:29:36.360
<v Speaker 1>and I don't know that anybody saw it, you know,

0:29:36.440 --> 0:29:38.200
<v Speaker 1>And I know that it ran for two years, you

0:29:38.280 --> 0:29:40.240
<v Speaker 1>know what I mean, And that didn't matter, Like, it

0:29:40.240 --> 0:29:42.640
<v Speaker 1>didn't it didn't even factor into the equation. So by

0:29:42.720 --> 0:29:44.400
<v Speaker 1>the time I started getting and then you know, a

0:29:44.440 --> 0:29:48.720
<v Speaker 1>decade of musical theater, you know, Broadway has its own groups,

0:29:48.760 --> 0:29:51.440
<v Speaker 1>for sure, but in terms of like the giant scheme

0:29:51.480 --> 0:29:55.360
<v Speaker 1>of like what actors get known, it's relatively small. And

0:29:55.400 --> 0:29:57.840
<v Speaker 1>so by the time you gain any kind of profile,

0:29:58.320 --> 0:30:02.080
<v Speaker 1>you don't really care, you know, you don't like you're like, yeah, okay,

0:30:02.120 --> 0:30:04.280
<v Speaker 1>that's you know, like people are now saying, hey, be

0:30:04.440 --> 0:30:09.880
<v Speaker 1>on Conan, but you're past the part of being seduced.

0:30:09.880 --> 0:30:12.400
<v Speaker 1>And I think that's in a strange way helpful, because

0:30:12.480 --> 0:30:14.560
<v Speaker 1>what you want to focus on is telling the story

0:30:14.560 --> 0:30:15.920
<v Speaker 1>as best as you can tell the story.

0:30:16.000 --> 0:30:23.200
<v Speaker 2>That's right, that's right, and also without those external factors,

0:30:23.840 --> 0:30:28.800
<v Speaker 2>which almost necessarily comes in in terms of getting publicity

0:30:28.840 --> 0:30:31.280
<v Speaker 2>and all of those things in the United States, just

0:30:31.360 --> 0:30:36.120
<v Speaker 2>having the ability to do your work without those external distractions,

0:30:37.560 --> 0:30:40.240
<v Speaker 2>especially as a young actor who can actually then learn

0:30:40.600 --> 0:30:44.200
<v Speaker 2>what it is to be acting with the grip who's

0:30:44.200 --> 0:30:47.280
<v Speaker 2>smoking and moving that like doing his job totally fine.

0:30:47.480 --> 0:30:50.400
<v Speaker 2>But all of those things as a young actor getting

0:30:50.400 --> 0:30:53.240
<v Speaker 2>on set, those are obstacles that you have to that

0:30:53.320 --> 0:30:56.080
<v Speaker 2>you have to overcome, and so not having those external

0:30:56.120 --> 0:30:59.160
<v Speaker 2>things to me seems like that seems really cool.

0:31:00.120 --> 0:31:02.520
<v Speaker 1>It's huge. I think it's I think it's huge. I

0:31:02.520 --> 0:31:06.080
<v Speaker 1>think of now with social media. You know, I do

0:31:06.120 --> 0:31:08.479
<v Speaker 1>this television show. It's a superhero show that I direct

0:31:08.480 --> 0:31:11.400
<v Speaker 1>and act in, and you know it's the superhero shows

0:31:11.400 --> 0:31:14.760
<v Speaker 1>are generally populated by young, attractive actors, you know, and

0:31:14.800 --> 0:31:17.520
<v Speaker 1>then you've got like, you know, a couple of dudes

0:31:17.560 --> 0:31:20.720
<v Speaker 1>like myself and Jesse Martin another like you know from Rent,

0:31:20.760 --> 0:31:25.240
<v Speaker 1>another huge Broadway guy. But he I look at young

0:31:25.280 --> 0:31:27.719
<v Speaker 1>actors who are getting famous at the age of twenty,

0:31:28.040 --> 0:31:32.040
<v Speaker 1>and I think it's great for bank accounts and all

0:31:32.040 --> 0:31:34.040
<v Speaker 1>that kind of stuff. But like you say, like the

0:31:34.080 --> 0:31:36.840
<v Speaker 1>mistakes I'm making and the overacting I'm doing on Jake

0:31:36.880 --> 0:31:38.760
<v Speaker 1>and the kid like I'm getting, you know, like every

0:31:38.800 --> 0:31:41.920
<v Speaker 1>day you're getting a little bit better. You're always trying

0:31:42.240 --> 0:31:45.760
<v Speaker 1>to get better. And if you know, just this male

0:31:45.800 --> 0:31:48.120
<v Speaker 1>stream of attention is focused on you when you're twenty

0:31:48.120 --> 0:31:50.800
<v Speaker 1>four or twenty five, twenty six, and you know, like

0:31:50.800 --> 0:31:54.800
<v Speaker 1>like any other profession, you hopefully keep improving. To this day,

0:31:54.840 --> 0:31:56.680
<v Speaker 1>I still feel like, got it, got it, try and

0:31:56.680 --> 0:31:58.960
<v Speaker 1>get good. You're always trying to trying to get there,

0:31:59.560 --> 0:32:03.800
<v Speaker 1>right we You know, I grew up in a in

0:32:03.840 --> 0:32:06.920
<v Speaker 1>a way like you know, if I had had a

0:32:06.920 --> 0:32:10.440
<v Speaker 1>massive amount of attention on you know, I think the

0:32:10.640 --> 0:32:14.000
<v Speaker 1>the early days and the stuff that I did on film,

0:32:14.120 --> 0:32:16.120
<v Speaker 1>they'd be like, well, we should never hire this person

0:32:16.640 --> 0:32:19.400
<v Speaker 1>again because he's terrible.

0:32:20.920 --> 0:32:21.120
<v Speaker 3>You know.

0:32:22.600 --> 0:32:25.600
<v Speaker 2>Well I don't know about that, because you you come

0:32:25.640 --> 0:32:29.360
<v Speaker 2>out of the gate pretty. You know.

0:32:29.400 --> 0:32:33.080
<v Speaker 1>I've seen some stuff on CBC, you know, the Canadian

0:32:33.120 --> 0:32:36.560
<v Speaker 1>Broadcasting Corporation where you know, I've got like, you know,

0:32:36.640 --> 0:32:41.680
<v Speaker 1>long hair, and I look awful and and I'm awful.

0:32:41.760 --> 0:32:44.920
<v Speaker 1>I'm awful on camera, awful, you know, and you're just like,

0:32:45.000 --> 0:32:47.320
<v Speaker 1>holy cow, Like how did they not like just like

0:32:47.600 --> 0:32:51.240
<v Speaker 1>cut hangs like fire him that person, get that person

0:32:51.280 --> 0:32:53.840
<v Speaker 1>that would just stay stay stay, You're like you and

0:32:53.920 --> 0:32:56.920
<v Speaker 1>so but then you like you know, like you you see,

0:32:57.320 --> 0:32:59.440
<v Speaker 1>I had a friend who was an editor and I

0:32:59.440 --> 0:33:02.800
<v Speaker 1>got to sit in the in the edit, and you know,

0:33:02.840 --> 0:33:05.880
<v Speaker 1>I had a director who you know, invited me into

0:33:05.880 --> 0:33:08.520
<v Speaker 1>the into the edit because she was like, she was like,

0:33:08.560 --> 0:33:10.480
<v Speaker 1>you know, you have directing ability, you kind of know

0:33:10.520 --> 0:33:12.880
<v Speaker 1>what the camera's doing. This will help you learn. And

0:33:12.920 --> 0:33:16.800
<v Speaker 1>it was, you know, massively instrumental. Also, you get to

0:33:17.200 --> 0:33:19.200
<v Speaker 1>you get to gauge your performance, you know, and you're

0:33:19.240 --> 0:33:23.480
<v Speaker 1>just like, oh my god, that's that's terrible, you know,

0:33:23.520 --> 0:33:25.960
<v Speaker 1>and then you start, you know, you start improving, you

0:33:26.000 --> 0:33:28.520
<v Speaker 1>start figuring out what you know, you need to have

0:33:28.560 --> 0:33:30.560
<v Speaker 1>the thought and be in the moment and actually listen,

0:33:30.960 --> 0:33:33.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, and all those things sound so easy, but

0:33:33.240 --> 0:33:35.640
<v Speaker 1>as you know, like if you can do those things,

0:33:35.720 --> 0:33:39.480
<v Speaker 1>then actually you probably will turn in it a good performance.

0:33:39.480 --> 0:33:41.880
<v Speaker 1>They're much much more elusive and slippery and hard to do,

0:33:42.000 --> 0:33:43.160
<v Speaker 1>harder to do than they sound.

0:33:43.320 --> 0:33:46.160
<v Speaker 2>Right. I want to talk to you about acting in

0:33:46.360 --> 0:33:51.840
<v Speaker 2>theater and on the stage versus film and television. Do

0:33:51.920 --> 0:33:57.400
<v Speaker 2>you consider it to be different versions of the same

0:33:57.480 --> 0:34:00.000
<v Speaker 2>thing or is it different for you?

0:34:00.360 --> 0:34:03.480
<v Speaker 1>Brian, Such a good question, because I think I think

0:34:03.480 --> 0:34:06.720
<v Speaker 1>you sort of want to say it isn't because you're

0:34:06.960 --> 0:34:09.919
<v Speaker 1>telling a story and yet there's a difference to telling

0:34:09.920 --> 0:34:11.920
<v Speaker 1>the story all at once in the immediacy of the

0:34:11.960 --> 0:34:14.440
<v Speaker 1>audience and electricity in the air and the feedback that

0:34:14.480 --> 0:34:16.840
<v Speaker 1>you get that as you know, like you know, like

0:34:16.920 --> 0:34:19.840
<v Speaker 1>if you and I acting on camera, like we're going

0:34:19.920 --> 0:34:22.719
<v Speaker 1>to know when we're in the zone, and we're going

0:34:22.760 --> 0:34:25.040
<v Speaker 1>to know when we're we're not in the zone. It's

0:34:25.080 --> 0:34:27.520
<v Speaker 1>going to be up to you and I to feel that,

0:34:27.800 --> 0:34:30.680
<v Speaker 1>you know, and theaters are same, but there's also there's

0:34:30.680 --> 0:34:34.200
<v Speaker 1>a palpable energy that you know, some kind of ephemeral

0:34:34.239 --> 0:34:37.920
<v Speaker 1>code that comes from a thousand people in the stands.

0:34:38.480 --> 0:34:40.600
<v Speaker 1>Very early on, like you know, tried to figure it

0:34:40.640 --> 0:34:43.239
<v Speaker 1>was trying to figure out what the people who I

0:34:43.320 --> 0:34:47.959
<v Speaker 1>thought were amazing we're doing, you know, And I tried

0:34:47.960 --> 0:34:51.920
<v Speaker 1>to watch you know, every like if you John Malkovich

0:34:52.160 --> 0:34:55.880
<v Speaker 1>burn this on stage I think eighty seven on Broadway,

0:34:55.920 --> 0:34:58.920
<v Speaker 1>Like you watch Malcovich the play is great, but he

0:34:59.040 --> 0:35:03.080
<v Speaker 1>comes in there like watch this, everybody, sit the fuck down,

0:35:03.200 --> 0:35:06.480
<v Speaker 1>watch this entrance, you know what I mean. And and

0:35:06.520 --> 0:35:09.279
<v Speaker 1>then Brando in Streetcar from the first thing like just

0:35:09.400 --> 0:35:12.000
<v Speaker 1>there's these are just there's there's one hundred and fifty

0:35:12.040 --> 0:35:16.000
<v Speaker 1>things streep, you know, like I remember her and Kevin

0:35:16.040 --> 0:35:19.760
<v Speaker 1>Klein sophie' choyce going like why is she? What the hell?

0:35:19.960 --> 0:35:23.200
<v Speaker 1>And I remember like dissecting those things. This is way back, obviously,

0:35:23.600 --> 0:35:27.040
<v Speaker 1>but I was so young and they were so good,

0:35:27.160 --> 0:35:29.719
<v Speaker 1>you know, and they all seem to be so in

0:35:29.760 --> 0:35:33.080
<v Speaker 1>the moment, you know, and so either on stage or

0:35:33.120 --> 0:35:35.480
<v Speaker 1>on camera, and I was like, well, there's something that

0:35:35.760 --> 0:35:39.120
<v Speaker 1>Brando's doing on stage, or something Brando's doing, you know,

0:35:40.200 --> 0:35:42.960
<v Speaker 1>on camera that feels like stage to me. And I

0:35:42.960 --> 0:35:44.880
<v Speaker 1>got to try and figure out. And so I found

0:35:44.880 --> 0:35:48.600
<v Speaker 1>this quote by brand though about the differences between the two,

0:35:48.920 --> 0:35:50.640
<v Speaker 1>and I write it on all my scripts always have.

0:35:51.080 --> 0:35:53.680
<v Speaker 1>What he said was, you know, in theater you have

0:35:53.760 --> 0:35:57.000
<v Speaker 1>to show the audience what you're thinking. On film, you

0:35:57.160 --> 0:36:01.239
<v Speaker 1>just have to think it. The caveat being that you

0:36:01.280 --> 0:36:03.239
<v Speaker 1>actually have to think it. You can't just act it.

0:36:03.320 --> 0:36:06.759
<v Speaker 1>Like you know, you've been on on camera and on

0:36:06.800 --> 0:36:08.600
<v Speaker 1>stage with people who are no other line is coming,

0:36:08.600 --> 0:36:10.560
<v Speaker 1>and they're prepared and they just say the line. That

0:36:10.640 --> 0:36:13.440
<v Speaker 1>doesn't mean they're having the thought behind the line. And

0:36:13.480 --> 0:36:16.040
<v Speaker 1>that's the difference between I think a good performance many

0:36:16.040 --> 0:36:19.759
<v Speaker 1>times and a poor one where it's like you are

0:36:19.840 --> 0:36:23.359
<v Speaker 1>actively something is going on behind these lines that are

0:36:23.400 --> 0:36:25.279
<v Speaker 1>coming out of out of your head and so like,

0:36:25.960 --> 0:36:28.200
<v Speaker 1>you know, Brando also said the same thing with theatre,

0:36:28.239 --> 0:36:31.120
<v Speaker 1>where he's like, you know, and this is sort of

0:36:31.120 --> 0:36:34.080
<v Speaker 1>thing if anyone's seen anything that I do is a

0:36:34.160 --> 0:36:37.280
<v Speaker 1>very poor imitation of what he said, but I really

0:36:37.520 --> 0:36:40.600
<v Speaker 1>firmly believe it. And Pacino the same has said the

0:36:40.600 --> 0:36:42.480
<v Speaker 1>same sort of thing, where it's like, the character is

0:36:42.520 --> 0:36:44.400
<v Speaker 1>the cage. You build the cage and you can just

0:36:44.640 --> 0:36:46.759
<v Speaker 1>raw the hell out of it, you know what I mean.

0:36:47.040 --> 0:36:51.759
<v Speaker 1>It's like, how does Pacino go again away? It's like

0:36:51.800 --> 0:36:54.040
<v Speaker 1>what how does he get away with the yelling that? Like,

0:36:54.080 --> 0:36:56.359
<v Speaker 1>what what's he doing? But he's built this thing where

0:36:56.360 --> 0:36:58.840
<v Speaker 1>the guy does that and it doesn't seem you know,

0:36:58.840 --> 0:37:01.879
<v Speaker 1>I'm gonna take a flag a price. You're just like, wait,

0:37:01.920 --> 0:37:03.840
<v Speaker 1>you mean you're gonna take a flat for yeah, you know,

0:37:04.000 --> 0:37:06.680
<v Speaker 1>but it's this giant thing and you're like, Okay, he's

0:37:06.719 --> 0:37:09.800
<v Speaker 1>built this character and now he can rattle the cage.

0:37:09.840 --> 0:37:14.120
<v Speaker 1>So I don't have anything new or better to offer

0:37:14.800 --> 0:37:16.799
<v Speaker 1>as an answer to your question than that, but that

0:37:16.840 --> 0:37:18.600
<v Speaker 1>those are pretty good starting points.

0:37:18.960 --> 0:37:23.000
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, no, absolutely, I find it fascinating. But I you know,

0:37:23.040 --> 0:37:26.520
<v Speaker 2>when I made the switch. For me, it was there

0:37:26.560 --> 0:37:29.399
<v Speaker 2>was a harder edge. I wasn't sort of bleeding back

0:37:29.440 --> 0:37:32.400
<v Speaker 2>and forth for the most part, And so I always

0:37:32.440 --> 0:37:35.800
<v Speaker 2>sort of refer to it as me changing careers in

0:37:36.200 --> 0:37:39.520
<v Speaker 2>a way, because I felt like there was just such

0:37:39.560 --> 0:37:44.640
<v Speaker 2>a different mindset and focus in some ways. Even though

0:37:44.680 --> 0:37:49.239
<v Speaker 2>the central skill, if you will, is the same, the

0:37:49.320 --> 0:37:52.400
<v Speaker 2>training behind that is still the same. It's just executed

0:37:52.480 --> 0:37:53.760
<v Speaker 2>in such a different way.

0:37:54.320 --> 0:37:56.719
<v Speaker 1>But the community of the the like the community of

0:37:56.760 --> 0:37:59.640
<v Speaker 1>it all, like I'm sharing the dressing room. We're you know,

0:37:59.680 --> 0:38:03.839
<v Speaker 1>like my part might be quite big, but there's four

0:38:03.880 --> 0:38:06.960
<v Speaker 1>of us jammed in here and all sharing the same thing,

0:38:07.000 --> 0:38:10.680
<v Speaker 1>and we're all working together, you know, in the and

0:38:10.719 --> 0:38:13.560
<v Speaker 1>it's completely equal, and we're all taking the same five

0:38:13.600 --> 0:38:16.600
<v Speaker 1>minute break, and nobody's getting extra special treatment, at least

0:38:16.640 --> 0:38:18.319
<v Speaker 1>in the productions that I've been involved in, you know.

0:38:18.400 --> 0:38:21.640
<v Speaker 1>And so yeah, that thing is like, hey, it's like DELFI,

0:38:21.719 --> 0:38:23.800
<v Speaker 1>It's like where it all started. We're all like this community,

0:38:23.840 --> 0:38:27.839
<v Speaker 1>we're all doing it together, whereas film, you know, is

0:38:29.040 --> 0:38:31.440
<v Speaker 1>you know, on television, very very different animal.

0:38:31.719 --> 0:38:34.960
<v Speaker 2>What was the decision behind moving to Los Angeles.

0:38:35.320 --> 0:38:37.200
<v Speaker 1>Well, here's the thing. I never moved to Los Angeles.

0:38:37.239 --> 0:38:41.279
<v Speaker 1>I'm in. I stayed in New York and have lived

0:38:41.320 --> 0:38:43.520
<v Speaker 1>in New York. I have children, they were all born

0:38:43.560 --> 0:38:46.680
<v Speaker 1>in the city. And it's funny. You'd shoot out in

0:38:46.800 --> 0:38:48.880
<v Speaker 1>LA all the time and people be like, wait, you

0:38:48.880 --> 0:38:50.279
<v Speaker 1>don't live here. It's like, now, I live in New York,

0:38:50.320 --> 0:38:53.080
<v Speaker 1>and I remember you'd always get like, how'd you get it?

0:38:53.080 --> 0:38:55.319
<v Speaker 1>How'd you manage to do that? I always get that.

0:38:55.360 --> 0:38:58.200
<v Speaker 1>It's like, well, I came for Broadway, like, and I'm

0:38:58.239 --> 0:39:00.480
<v Speaker 1>not like an East Coast West Coast basher. New York

0:39:00.520 --> 0:39:03.239
<v Speaker 1>City is much more. It's me, you know. I like

0:39:03.280 --> 0:39:05.680
<v Speaker 1>to walk. It's boots on the ground. It's like there's

0:39:05.680 --> 0:39:08.319
<v Speaker 1>the gym, you know, there's the there's the deli, there's

0:39:08.360 --> 0:39:11.640
<v Speaker 1>the you know. It was just that kind of thing.

0:39:11.680 --> 0:39:15.560
<v Speaker 1>And what got me there was that guy Philip Rose,

0:39:15.800 --> 0:39:18.560
<v Speaker 1>the director was like, did you bring anything real to sing?

0:39:18.640 --> 0:39:18.879
<v Speaker 2>Yes?

0:39:18.960 --> 0:39:21.960
<v Speaker 1>And he ended up you know, blessed bless his cotton socks.

0:39:21.960 --> 0:39:24.279
<v Speaker 1>He cast me in the thing, and next thing you know,

0:39:24.320 --> 0:39:26.879
<v Speaker 1>I'm in living in Hell's kitchen, walking back and forth

0:39:26.920 --> 0:39:29.719
<v Speaker 1>to fifty second Street to the Broadway Theater, you know,

0:39:29.880 --> 0:39:32.880
<v Speaker 1>every every matinee and every night. So I was like,

0:39:32.960 --> 0:39:35.160
<v Speaker 1>this is I feel like I'm supposed to be here

0:39:35.200 --> 0:39:38.080
<v Speaker 1>and you know, so, yeah, I've been in the city

0:39:38.120 --> 0:39:39.000
<v Speaker 1>for like twenty five years.

0:39:39.040 --> 0:40:00.319
<v Speaker 2>I guess, wow, the early two thousands. It's at least

0:40:00.320 --> 0:40:04.080
<v Speaker 2>worth mentioning. You do get cast as in a number

0:40:04.239 --> 0:40:09.200
<v Speaker 2>of shows, big shows at the time, Scrubs, Providence, and

0:40:09.239 --> 0:40:15.360
<v Speaker 2>then ultimately become the what are they called titular titular?

0:40:15.840 --> 0:40:18.280
<v Speaker 2>I don't that's such a weird word. That's the word

0:40:18.840 --> 0:40:22.640
<v Speaker 2>that just popped into my head. You become the titular titular.

0:40:22.840 --> 0:40:23.839
<v Speaker 2>I'm not saying it right.

0:40:24.200 --> 0:40:28.879
<v Speaker 1>I think likely to take it good luck.

0:40:29.000 --> 0:40:32.920
<v Speaker 2>I don't know what character ed in ad with the

0:40:32.960 --> 0:40:37.799
<v Speaker 2>aforementioned Julie Bowen. Your experience, well, being the captain of

0:40:37.800 --> 0:40:41.600
<v Speaker 2>the ship, I mean not directing or writing, but being

0:40:41.719 --> 0:40:44.319
<v Speaker 2>the being number one on the call sheet. How was

0:40:44.360 --> 0:40:47.719
<v Speaker 2>that different for you or was that just an extension

0:40:47.719 --> 0:40:50.200
<v Speaker 2>of the other work. Did you feel added pressure?

0:40:51.080 --> 0:40:56.440
<v Speaker 1>Oh? No, I I no, I did not feel added pressure.

0:40:56.600 --> 0:40:59.279
<v Speaker 1>I felt like every now and again something comes up

0:40:59.320 --> 0:41:01.560
<v Speaker 1>and it's just like we're all supposed to be here,

0:41:01.719 --> 0:41:03.560
<v Speaker 1>you know. I worked with name Drop, I worked with

0:41:03.600 --> 0:41:06.840
<v Speaker 1>Mike Farrell from Mash and I remember him. You know,

0:41:06.880 --> 0:41:09.160
<v Speaker 1>he would just regale me with like stories and it's

0:41:09.200 --> 0:41:12.080
<v Speaker 1>just like, yeah, that was the moment, the moment in time,

0:41:12.160 --> 0:41:15.160
<v Speaker 1>and you know those he said to me, like you

0:41:15.160 --> 0:41:17.200
<v Speaker 1>know those gut we would get together on Friday night

0:41:17.239 --> 0:41:20.080
<v Speaker 1>to see where we were going for dinner on Saturday

0:41:20.120 --> 0:41:22.160
<v Speaker 1>night on her day off nine years in you know

0:41:22.200 --> 0:41:24.439
<v Speaker 1>what I mean, right, And he said and I remember

0:41:24.520 --> 0:41:26.400
<v Speaker 1>him saying, went like verbatim again verbai. He was like,

0:41:26.400 --> 0:41:29.120
<v Speaker 1>can you imagine that? And I could because Ed was

0:41:29.160 --> 0:41:33.040
<v Speaker 1>like that for us, Like it was just you know,

0:41:33.440 --> 0:41:37.560
<v Speaker 1>that show had initially been you know, it was positioned

0:41:37.560 --> 0:41:40.600
<v Speaker 1>for CBS, and then they didn't pick it up. It

0:41:40.600 --> 0:41:44.600
<v Speaker 1>didn't outright Shelvet and Roburnette, who ran the Late Show

0:41:44.600 --> 0:41:48.480
<v Speaker 1>with David Letterman, who also produced at the time, Everiela's Raymond,

0:41:48.480 --> 0:41:51.520
<v Speaker 1>which was a giant show for them, and he had leverage,

0:41:51.560 --> 0:41:54.600
<v Speaker 1>I guess, and he asked for it back because he

0:41:54.640 --> 0:41:56.680
<v Speaker 1>felt something about the show, which we all did, like

0:41:56.719 --> 0:41:59.480
<v Speaker 1>I'd gotten a couple of in strange ways. I also

0:41:59.480 --> 0:42:01.279
<v Speaker 1>auditioned for a couple of other shows and had to

0:42:01.760 --> 0:42:04.200
<v Speaker 1>turn them down. In the year, literally three hundred and

0:42:04.200 --> 0:42:06.279
<v Speaker 1>sixty five days we waited to see if ed would

0:42:06.280 --> 0:42:08.719
<v Speaker 1>go anywhere else, you know, and it just was a

0:42:08.760 --> 0:42:13.160
<v Speaker 1>sense that something about this thing was bigger than us

0:42:13.200 --> 0:42:15.799
<v Speaker 1>at the time, and so I kind of held out

0:42:15.800 --> 0:42:18.520
<v Speaker 1>for it, which on paper it was an insane thing,

0:42:18.520 --> 0:42:20.640
<v Speaker 1>because once the show doesn't go on a network, it's it.

0:42:20.640 --> 0:42:21.040
<v Speaker 1>It's over.

0:42:21.440 --> 0:42:22.120
<v Speaker 2>Yes it is.

0:42:22.320 --> 0:42:26.560
<v Speaker 1>And then Rob took it to NBC and said, you know,

0:42:26.680 --> 0:42:31.200
<v Speaker 1>like and they said, well, okay, let's reshoot the pilot.

0:42:32.160 --> 0:42:34.400
<v Speaker 1>And then they picked it up and then you know,

0:42:34.400 --> 0:42:36.439
<v Speaker 1>it got like twenty two million or something, and it's

0:42:36.480 --> 0:42:39.840
<v Speaker 1>like and it's like debut, and it was thrilling, to

0:42:39.880 --> 0:42:43.000
<v Speaker 1>be sure, but it didn't feel like can you believe it?

0:42:43.160 --> 0:42:44.560
<v Speaker 1>Like it just sort of felt like, yeah, we should

0:42:44.600 --> 0:42:45.560
<v Speaker 1>just stay with this horse.

0:42:46.200 --> 0:42:46.440
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:42:46.800 --> 0:42:49.040
<v Speaker 1>I remember Burnett saying the same thing, and Rob is

0:42:49.239 --> 0:42:50.640
<v Speaker 1>I don't know if you've worked with Rob or no

0:42:50.960 --> 0:42:52.440
<v Speaker 1>Rob at all, but Robert is one of the most

0:42:52.480 --> 0:42:55.799
<v Speaker 1>intelligent and entertaining humans, not in the not in the

0:42:55.840 --> 0:42:57.400
<v Speaker 1>world that we live in, but just like in the

0:42:57.440 --> 0:43:01.000
<v Speaker 1>world itself, Like just as good as they and as

0:43:01.040 --> 0:43:04.000
<v Speaker 1>smart as they get, and smart and humble in power

0:43:04.080 --> 0:43:10.000
<v Speaker 1>don't often collide. Well, And you know, when I got

0:43:10.000 --> 0:43:14.359
<v Speaker 1>offered a lead in another show that did go and

0:43:14.640 --> 0:43:16.319
<v Speaker 1>I was shooting a movie in Utah and we were

0:43:16.360 --> 0:43:18.719
<v Speaker 1>waiting to see NBC hadn't even picked up the thing.

0:43:18.840 --> 0:43:22.520
<v Speaker 1>We were just in this limbo and he was basically like,

0:43:22.560 --> 0:43:25.319
<v Speaker 1>you know, like you should take this other job. I

0:43:25.360 --> 0:43:27.279
<v Speaker 1>was like, I don't. I'm not built that way. I

0:43:27.320 --> 0:43:29.080
<v Speaker 1>sort of feel like you need to have that. We

0:43:29.120 --> 0:43:31.759
<v Speaker 1>need to get a full at bat. You, Robernette, need

0:43:31.760 --> 0:43:34.480
<v Speaker 1>to get a full at bat and you have two strikes. Basically,

0:43:34.960 --> 0:43:37.600
<v Speaker 1>we always do this. We like we when the show

0:43:37.640 --> 0:43:39.160
<v Speaker 1>got picked up and he would try and explain what

0:43:39.200 --> 0:43:41.880
<v Speaker 1>he wanted the character to do. He would use sports analogy,

0:43:41.960 --> 0:43:43.400
<v Speaker 1>and what was great about Rob is he can come

0:43:43.480 --> 0:43:46.680
<v Speaker 1>up with fifty in a minute, and I to entertain myself.

0:43:46.920 --> 0:43:48.520
<v Speaker 1>He would start explaining to me like, you know, like

0:43:48.520 --> 0:43:50.160
<v Speaker 1>it's it's like you're going on the blue line and

0:43:50.160 --> 0:43:52.359
<v Speaker 1>then like you feel like, oh wait, I feel somebody's circle.

0:43:52.360 --> 0:43:54.000
<v Speaker 1>You gotta circle back. And I wouldn't say it. I

0:43:54.080 --> 0:43:56.279
<v Speaker 1>just kind of look at him, and then he'd be like,

0:43:57.000 --> 0:43:58.880
<v Speaker 1>you know what, it's like, it's like your goalie is pulled,

0:43:58.880 --> 0:44:00.560
<v Speaker 1>but you need and he would just coming up with

0:44:00.560 --> 0:44:01.839
<v Speaker 1>like a whole bunch of different things, and I would

0:44:01.880 --> 0:44:03.960
<v Speaker 1>just like and then after about three minutes with me

0:44:04.080 --> 0:44:05.879
<v Speaker 1>just like wait, he'd be like, you're doing it again,

0:44:05.920 --> 0:44:09.200
<v Speaker 1>aren't you? And oh my god, check this out. This

0:44:09.280 --> 0:44:11.800
<v Speaker 1>is a picture somebody's And I didn't even plan this, Brian,

0:44:11.840 --> 0:44:13.400
<v Speaker 1>I swear to god, I didn't plan this. I've never

0:44:13.440 --> 0:44:16.120
<v Speaker 1>seen this picture anywhere, but this is my office and

0:44:16.160 --> 0:44:19.120
<v Speaker 1>like somebody snapped this on Ed while he was trying

0:44:19.120 --> 0:44:23.440
<v Speaker 1>to explain what the character should do to me? Can

0:44:24.040 --> 0:44:29.279
<v Speaker 1>you see that? Yeah, that's me and that's Rob and

0:44:29.800 --> 0:44:33.400
<v Speaker 1>I'm he's just going through sports analogy after sports analogy

0:44:33.680 --> 0:44:35.520
<v Speaker 1>and I'll keep you my mouth shut because he's so

0:44:35.640 --> 0:44:38.560
<v Speaker 1>damn entertaining, right, But he said something like he's like,

0:44:38.600 --> 0:44:41.799
<v Speaker 1>you know, everybody can like pick the thoroughbred in the

0:44:41.800 --> 0:44:45.120
<v Speaker 1>gate that they think, but nobody knows till the horses run,

0:44:45.160 --> 0:44:47.840
<v Speaker 1>you know what I mean. And you know, like in

0:44:47.840 --> 0:44:50.000
<v Speaker 1>a strange way with Ed, like it was just they

0:44:50.040 --> 0:44:51.960
<v Speaker 1>just felt like it something here should happen. And then

0:44:52.040 --> 0:44:55.319
<v Speaker 1>we got in like you say, captain, it's like, you know,

0:44:55.440 --> 0:44:58.799
<v Speaker 1>I'm willing to fight for my co workers and co

0:44:58.880 --> 0:45:01.800
<v Speaker 1>actors and do that thing, and you know, I definitely

0:45:02.200 --> 0:45:05.239
<v Speaker 1>coming from an athletic background and being a captain on

0:45:05.280 --> 0:45:08.880
<v Speaker 1>sports teams, I know how to do that. That being said,

0:45:09.040 --> 0:45:12.799
<v Speaker 1>it very much felt like theater in the best way

0:45:12.920 --> 0:45:17.080
<v Speaker 1>in that there there there was an equality across the

0:45:17.080 --> 0:45:20.239
<v Speaker 1>board for all the actors. And many shows aren't like that,

0:45:20.640 --> 0:45:24.000
<v Speaker 1>but the good many of the good ones are, and

0:45:24.040 --> 0:45:26.600
<v Speaker 1>so in terms of responsibility, just sort of felt like

0:45:26.600 --> 0:45:31.040
<v Speaker 1>everyone had it to one another to you know, to

0:45:31.120 --> 0:45:34.040
<v Speaker 1>keep the promise of this this thing alive. Those were

0:45:34.640 --> 0:45:37.920
<v Speaker 1>joyous days. And not only that, but the crew was

0:45:38.280 --> 0:45:41.480
<v Speaker 1>family and friends, just as the actors were amongst themselves,

0:45:41.520 --> 0:45:43.320
<v Speaker 1>and it was a whole kind of like sometimes the

0:45:43.560 --> 0:45:45.640
<v Speaker 1>show has its moment in time and you're fortunate enough

0:45:45.719 --> 0:45:48.200
<v Speaker 1>to be part of that thing, and this was this

0:45:48.280 --> 0:45:50.320
<v Speaker 1>was one of those that's awesome.

0:45:50.760 --> 0:45:53.240
<v Speaker 2>I love to hear that, you know. That was shortly

0:45:53.320 --> 0:45:57.200
<v Speaker 2>before I moved to Los Angeles, and I was a

0:45:57.200 --> 0:46:00.480
<v Speaker 2>big fan of the show and I just loved Heart

0:46:00.680 --> 0:46:03.879
<v Speaker 2>And people talk about this about the Office, so it's

0:46:03.920 --> 0:46:05.640
<v Speaker 2>not me saying it though I'm saying it right now.

0:46:06.160 --> 0:46:09.000
<v Speaker 2>It was a show where you could really feel that

0:46:09.040 --> 0:46:11.239
<v Speaker 2>the people who were working on it cared about each other,

0:46:11.440 --> 0:46:13.799
<v Speaker 2>so it's nice to I mean I could feel that

0:46:13.960 --> 0:46:16.640
<v Speaker 2>watching It's not surprising, but it's still nice to hear

0:46:17.000 --> 0:46:18.200
<v Speaker 2>you talk about And.

0:46:18.160 --> 0:46:20.400
<v Speaker 1>I think people don't know that about I mean, I

0:46:20.400 --> 0:46:22.319
<v Speaker 1>think people know about the success of the Office and

0:46:22.360 --> 0:46:26.440
<v Speaker 1>it's a beloved show, but that it also didn't have like, hey,

0:46:26.520 --> 0:46:27.080
<v Speaker 1>let's do this.

0:46:27.320 --> 0:46:27.560
<v Speaker 2>Yeah.

0:46:27.640 --> 0:46:30.640
<v Speaker 1>I remember talking to John. I think John Krazinski's first

0:46:31.080 --> 0:46:33.319
<v Speaker 1>on an episode I directed, of Ed. I think that

0:46:33.400 --> 0:46:35.600
<v Speaker 1>was his first professional on camera movement.

0:46:35.880 --> 0:46:36.280
<v Speaker 2>Really.

0:46:36.440 --> 0:46:39.520
<v Speaker 1>Yeah, I'd met him at a at the After Offices

0:46:39.560 --> 0:46:41.400
<v Speaker 1>in New York. We walked up the street together just

0:46:41.640 --> 0:46:44.000
<v Speaker 1>he was just a he just moved from Boston, and

0:46:44.680 --> 0:46:47.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, you know how some people like this guy's

0:46:47.040 --> 0:46:48.759
<v Speaker 1>got it, you know what I mean. He just sort

0:46:48.760 --> 0:46:51.560
<v Speaker 1>of felt like I felt like I should know him,

0:46:51.600 --> 0:46:53.400
<v Speaker 1>and he felt I guess I should know me. And

0:46:53.440 --> 0:46:55.719
<v Speaker 1>so then I gave him like on the show I

0:46:55.760 --> 0:46:57.839
<v Speaker 1>was directing, I got the cast, and I don't think

0:46:57.880 --> 0:47:00.719
<v Speaker 1>he had a network credit at that point. And I

0:47:00.760 --> 0:47:03.600
<v Speaker 1>still feel bad to this day that like it would

0:47:03.640 --> 0:47:06.480
<v Speaker 1>happen relatively soon, and I was like, do you want

0:47:06.520 --> 0:47:10.400
<v Speaker 1>to play the part of like the subpoena server? And

0:47:10.560 --> 0:47:12.920
<v Speaker 1>so he did that and it was just me and

0:47:13.000 --> 0:47:14.600
<v Speaker 1>him in the scene, and he was the best actor

0:47:14.640 --> 0:47:17.200
<v Speaker 1>in the scene. And you know, this bat to this

0:47:17.280 --> 0:47:20.400
<v Speaker 1>day felt bad that it wasn't a bigger role. But

0:47:20.600 --> 0:47:22.080
<v Speaker 1>I didn't direct all of them. That was one that

0:47:22.120 --> 0:47:23.239
<v Speaker 1>was like, hey, you can do this if you want,

0:47:23.280 --> 0:47:25.200
<v Speaker 1>and he did. But what's interesting is about knowing if

0:47:25.200 --> 0:47:27.279
<v Speaker 1>somebody's a good actor just to go just to take

0:47:27.280 --> 0:47:29.640
<v Speaker 1>the thing off the tracks for a second. Talking about John,

0:47:29.719 --> 0:47:32.360
<v Speaker 1>like when you direct, you're in the edit a lot,

0:47:32.800 --> 0:47:35.440
<v Speaker 1>and I had this wide shot that I use, and

0:47:35.800 --> 0:47:39.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, he has to come in midway through the scene.

0:47:39.400 --> 0:47:40.920
<v Speaker 1>He kind of showed that there's some kind of argument

0:47:40.960 --> 0:47:44.479
<v Speaker 1>that I turned turned around, boom, are you at Stevens guys,

0:47:44.640 --> 0:47:47.719
<v Speaker 1>you've been served? And then off he goes, right, But

0:47:48.520 --> 0:47:51.120
<v Speaker 1>in the two minutes that lead up to that, he's

0:47:51.160 --> 0:47:53.800
<v Speaker 1>completely busy. You know, he's kind of looking around to

0:47:53.800 --> 0:47:55.359
<v Speaker 1>see he kind of orders a drink from the bar,

0:47:55.560 --> 0:47:57.640
<v Speaker 1>kind of looking around, like backing up, scoping it out,

0:47:57.719 --> 0:48:00.000
<v Speaker 1>kind of Oh, just before I think it's that guy,

0:48:00.480 --> 0:48:02.640
<v Speaker 1>you know, and times has walk all the way down

0:48:02.719 --> 0:48:04.279
<v Speaker 1>right to when I'm about to turn in, there he is,

0:48:04.640 --> 0:48:07.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, and that sounds easy. It's not easy. You know,

0:48:07.080 --> 0:48:09.840
<v Speaker 1>it's not easy. It's not easy at all. And crisis

0:48:09.840 --> 0:48:12.080
<v Speaker 1>here is like bang bang bang and watch them an

0:48:12.200 --> 0:48:13.719
<v Speaker 1>edit and I'm just like, you know, when you have

0:48:13.760 --> 0:48:16.360
<v Speaker 1>a good feeling with good people and it happens, it's incredible.

0:48:17.120 --> 0:48:20.440
<v Speaker 2>You do musical theater obviously a lot of comedy and

0:48:20.520 --> 0:48:25.759
<v Speaker 2>drama Canada, Ghana, the United States. But I can't find

0:48:25.800 --> 0:48:30.000
<v Speaker 2>anywhere where you had played a superhero or super villain

0:48:30.080 --> 0:48:33.560
<v Speaker 2>or Warren Tights other than Shakespeare. What was that like

0:48:33.640 --> 0:48:37.640
<v Speaker 2>for you stepping into that world? A world obviously with

0:48:37.719 --> 0:48:40.439
<v Speaker 2>a lot of lore, a lot of history, people care

0:48:40.480 --> 0:48:42.600
<v Speaker 2>and believe passionately and it what was it like for

0:48:42.680 --> 0:48:45.719
<v Speaker 2>you to take such a departure for yourself and to

0:48:45.880 --> 0:48:46.880
<v Speaker 2>jump into that world.

0:48:47.800 --> 0:48:51.520
<v Speaker 1>I think the interesting thing about questions and ideas like

0:48:51.560 --> 0:48:53.680
<v Speaker 1>that just I sort of feel like you're always kind

0:48:53.680 --> 0:48:56.759
<v Speaker 1>of trying to I' mean Julie Bowen, so she just

0:48:56.800 --> 0:48:59.200
<v Speaker 1>never thinks she's going to get hired again. The big

0:48:59.280 --> 0:49:03.160
<v Speaker 1>question that sometimes doesn't get addressed is the question of

0:49:03.280 --> 0:49:05.680
<v Speaker 1>in capital letters, will they have you. I'm sure that

0:49:05.680 --> 0:49:08.320
<v Speaker 1>I would love to have been a superhero an Avenger

0:49:08.680 --> 0:49:11.640
<v Speaker 1>in my twenties, you know, and people don't want you,

0:49:11.800 --> 0:49:14.480
<v Speaker 1>or the opportunity doesn't come up, And so that's always

0:49:14.520 --> 0:49:16.560
<v Speaker 1>a giant part of it, as like who will have you?

0:49:16.719 --> 0:49:19.560
<v Speaker 1>And you need sometimes to be aided and embedded by

0:49:19.560 --> 0:49:22.600
<v Speaker 1>people like Berlanti, where you know you've gone through some

0:49:22.719 --> 0:49:27.040
<v Speaker 1>of the fires together and had poor results, so he

0:49:27.120 --> 0:49:29.680
<v Speaker 1>and I forging fires of cancelation and stuff, and like

0:49:29.680 --> 0:49:31.799
<v Speaker 1>the sort of damocles hanging over our head all the time,

0:49:31.800 --> 0:49:33.720
<v Speaker 1>and how you react to that, like, look, I'm happy

0:49:33.760 --> 0:49:35.799
<v Speaker 1>to be here. I like this show, I like being

0:49:35.800 --> 0:49:37.919
<v Speaker 1>with you. I like saying these words. After a while,

0:49:37.920 --> 0:49:41.360
<v Speaker 1>it becomes almost like a repertory group with somebody like that,

0:49:41.400 --> 0:49:43.799
<v Speaker 1>where they're like, I can rely on this guy, you know.

0:49:43.880 --> 0:49:46.880
<v Speaker 1>So I don't think I'm anybody's choice to be the

0:49:46.960 --> 0:49:49.719
<v Speaker 1>joker to the Batman the way I am in this

0:49:49.840 --> 0:49:53.160
<v Speaker 1>flashow where I'm the reverse flash to the flash apart

0:49:53.160 --> 0:49:56.399
<v Speaker 1>from Greg Burlanty, I don't think they'd have me. Not

0:49:56.480 --> 0:49:58.880
<v Speaker 1>only that because they didn't want to tell me. They

0:49:58.920 --> 0:50:01.640
<v Speaker 1>don't want to tell anyone actually who the villain was

0:50:01.640 --> 0:50:04.080
<v Speaker 1>because they were afraid of it leaking. They were like, hey,

0:50:04.120 --> 0:50:06.080
<v Speaker 1>do you just want you want to play this scientist?

0:50:06.680 --> 0:50:09.480
<v Speaker 1>And I'm like no, and then like and then and

0:50:09.480 --> 0:50:11.839
<v Speaker 1>then the second phone call was like, come on, play

0:50:11.840 --> 0:50:16.520
<v Speaker 1>the scientist, and I was like, that's your approach, come on,

0:50:16.600 --> 0:50:19.480
<v Speaker 1>come on. The second time, you're like come on, and

0:50:19.520 --> 0:50:21.040
<v Speaker 1>I was like, no, no, I don' want to play

0:50:21.040 --> 0:50:24.719
<v Speaker 1>a scientist. Like I'm like no, you know. Then they're

0:50:24.760 --> 0:50:27.040
<v Speaker 1>like they literally fly me out to Los Angeles, you know,

0:50:27.040 --> 0:50:29.040
<v Speaker 1>like I'll never forget. I'm in the halls of NBC

0:50:29.120 --> 0:50:31.319
<v Speaker 1>and Burbank. It's on like a Saturday, I think, and

0:50:31.360 --> 0:50:34.920
<v Speaker 1>there's nobody around Brian, nobody, and yet you know, the

0:50:34.920 --> 0:50:38.400
<v Speaker 1>executive producer like still goes and like closes the door

0:50:39.360 --> 0:50:41.799
<v Speaker 1>so that nobody will overhear what he has to say.

0:50:41.800 --> 0:50:43.520
<v Speaker 1>I'm like, what is happening, wh I gonna get mugged?

0:50:44.280 --> 0:50:47.080
<v Speaker 1>And he says, the role we really want you for

0:50:47.280 --> 0:50:50.480
<v Speaker 1>is Eobarthon. I'm like, I don't know who that is,

0:50:52.280 --> 0:50:54.279
<v Speaker 1>which I don't say because I don't want to see

0:50:54.320 --> 0:50:56.320
<v Speaker 1>him like a complete idiot because these people comment. But

0:50:56.440 --> 0:51:01.600
<v Speaker 1>people live for this stuff, so I say, keep talking, right,

0:51:02.400 --> 0:51:06.480
<v Speaker 1>and he says he's the reverse Flash and I'm like

0:51:07.840 --> 0:51:11.520
<v Speaker 1>and then he goes he's the villain, and I'm like

0:51:11.960 --> 0:51:15.359
<v Speaker 1>you could have saved yourself two thousand dollars by just

0:51:15.400 --> 0:51:19.719
<v Speaker 1>saying that over the phone. I'm like, I'm in, I'm in,

0:51:19.800 --> 0:51:21.879
<v Speaker 1>of course I'm in, like playing the villain wearing wear

0:51:21.920 --> 0:51:24.400
<v Speaker 1>in a supersuit, right, And to address your question of

0:51:24.400 --> 0:51:26.719
<v Speaker 1>like did you ever think that happens? Like a no B.

0:51:27.120 --> 0:51:30.680
<v Speaker 1>Thank god that it is, you know, twenty twenty three,

0:51:30.719 --> 0:51:33.400
<v Speaker 1>and the era is like Ben Affleck can go on

0:51:33.440 --> 0:51:36.279
<v Speaker 1>the donut diet and still jump into the Batman suit

0:51:36.280 --> 0:51:38.560
<v Speaker 1>and he can be fine, you know what I mean.

0:51:38.840 --> 0:51:41.439
<v Speaker 1>It's not the Adam West of yr when they put

0:51:41.440 --> 0:51:44.360
<v Speaker 1>this spandex on and I'm so sorry, you know what

0:51:44.440 --> 0:51:47.000
<v Speaker 1>I mean. Like then nowadays, you know the suit like

0:51:47.040 --> 0:51:49.319
<v Speaker 1>I had, Like the suit that I wear was like

0:51:49.400 --> 0:51:53.160
<v Speaker 1>ten ten thousand, yeah dollars, and like I've had like

0:51:53.239 --> 0:51:55.520
<v Speaker 1>five five fittings. I've also played the flash. I have

0:51:55.520 --> 0:51:57.560
<v Speaker 1>to wear his red suit. I wear my yellow suit.

0:51:57.760 --> 0:52:02.719
<v Speaker 1>And it's like artisans and artist crafting these suits, and

0:52:02.800 --> 0:52:05.759
<v Speaker 1>like I often felt like, you know, like the backstage

0:52:05.800 --> 0:52:10.000
<v Speaker 1>genius of the office catching the person, like John Clee

0:52:10.040 --> 0:52:11.880
<v Speaker 1>said it famously. When I was a young person, I

0:52:11.960 --> 0:52:14.920
<v Speaker 1>used to think that the funniest thing was you know,

0:52:15.040 --> 0:52:16.760
<v Speaker 1>I'm sure you know this score. But he was like saying,

0:52:16.960 --> 0:52:20.280
<v Speaker 1>the funniest thing ever was a normal person completely losing

0:52:20.320 --> 0:52:23.440
<v Speaker 1>their mind, like just having the biggest breakdown and just

0:52:23.520 --> 0:52:26.359
<v Speaker 1>kind of like screaming and going off the rails. He said,

0:52:26.400 --> 0:52:28.239
<v Speaker 1>As I go, oh do, I realized the funniest thing

0:52:28.280 --> 0:52:30.920
<v Speaker 1>was the man watching Batman. Yeah, you know, which is

0:52:30.920 --> 0:52:33.239
<v Speaker 1>basically that's the that's the genius of the office, right.

0:52:33.320 --> 0:52:35.719
<v Speaker 1>And so I've often felt like for these fittings, if

0:52:35.719 --> 0:52:37.920
<v Speaker 1>they knew what they were doing, they would actually have

0:52:38.040 --> 0:52:42.480
<v Speaker 1>somebody as this person's getting fit for a super suit film.

0:52:42.560 --> 0:52:46.239
<v Speaker 1>The people like just like staring at you, and they

0:52:46.320 --> 0:52:48.359
<v Speaker 1>reach out and they kind of like tug a cowl

0:52:48.480 --> 0:52:54.400
<v Speaker 1>right in your face and they're like like okay, you

0:52:54.400 --> 0:52:57.839
<v Speaker 1>know what I mean. PROD push bang, PROD pull.

0:52:58.280 --> 0:52:58.480
<v Speaker 2>You know.

0:52:58.640 --> 0:53:02.520
<v Speaker 1>But like and then you ultimately end up being the

0:53:02.520 --> 0:53:05.520
<v Speaker 1>most grateful beneficiary of their work because you put on

0:53:05.560 --> 0:53:07.640
<v Speaker 1>the suit fits you like love, you look good. It's

0:53:07.680 --> 0:53:10.560
<v Speaker 1>just like thank heavens, Thank heavens for them.

0:53:11.280 --> 0:53:15.400
<v Speaker 2>Yeah, and then it's not spandex. Yeah, I just want

0:53:15.640 --> 0:53:19.399
<v Speaker 2>to hear from you. For me, it's a dream role

0:53:20.200 --> 0:53:26.160
<v Speaker 2>because you are constantly playing different characters, different versions of yourself.

0:53:27.080 --> 0:53:29.080
<v Speaker 2>That's a dream for me. How has that been? Has

0:53:29.120 --> 0:53:32.799
<v Speaker 2>that been challenging or just fun to dive in and

0:53:32.960 --> 0:53:36.200
<v Speaker 2>find different versions of yourself to play these various characters

0:53:36.200 --> 0:53:38.080
<v Speaker 2>that reverse flash in habits.

0:53:38.320 --> 0:53:41.279
<v Speaker 1>Well, not to bore your listeners, I assume by now

0:53:41.280 --> 0:53:43.480
<v Speaker 1>if they're still on there on for the rest of

0:53:43.520 --> 0:53:47.160
<v Speaker 1>this you know, but I mean, you know so because

0:53:47.200 --> 0:53:50.080
<v Speaker 1>of BERLANDI and the shows that we don't or are

0:53:50.120 --> 0:53:53.920
<v Speaker 1>being canceled. You know, we went into season one just

0:53:54.080 --> 0:53:56.680
<v Speaker 1>we're just going to tell Batman versus Joker. It's going

0:53:56.760 --> 0:53:58.680
<v Speaker 1>to become me, and you don't know that I am.

0:53:58.800 --> 0:54:01.480
<v Speaker 1>You think I'm like his mentor, and then I end

0:54:01.560 --> 0:54:04.800
<v Speaker 1>up being the reverse Flash. And so it's basically Flash

0:54:04.880 --> 0:54:07.279
<v Speaker 1>versus Reverse Flash for twenty two episodes and in the

0:54:07.280 --> 0:54:09.359
<v Speaker 1>big finale in the twenty third episode, it's me versus

0:54:09.480 --> 0:54:11.319
<v Speaker 1>him giant fight and he wins because guess what it's

0:54:11.320 --> 0:54:13.760
<v Speaker 1>called the Flash. You know. The network's like Warner Brothers

0:54:13.840 --> 0:54:15.880
<v Speaker 1>is like, we want more of these, many more of these,

0:54:16.440 --> 0:54:19.759
<v Speaker 1>and so for me, it's like, well, you can't tell

0:54:19.760 --> 0:54:21.719
<v Speaker 1>that story again. You already did Flash versus Flash. So

0:54:21.719 --> 0:54:24.040
<v Speaker 1>I was like, thank you you know, see, yeah, I

0:54:24.080 --> 0:54:26.759
<v Speaker 1>appreciate it. And then Greg was like, well, what would

0:54:26.760 --> 0:54:29.279
<v Speaker 1>it basically take for you to come back? And then

0:54:29.440 --> 0:54:32.600
<v Speaker 1>that's where the idea was hatched to, like what if

0:54:32.640 --> 0:54:36.360
<v Speaker 1>you're the same character but from Because it's a multiverse,

0:54:36.360 --> 0:54:38.800
<v Speaker 1>there's many earths, and there's like, you know, we could

0:54:38.960 --> 0:54:41.799
<v Speaker 1>while we're waiting for the yellow suited guy to come

0:54:41.800 --> 0:54:45.040
<v Speaker 1>in and wreak havoc to Central City, I could invent

0:54:45.120 --> 0:54:47.759
<v Speaker 1>another character that has the same name, but it looks

0:54:47.760 --> 0:54:50.319
<v Speaker 1>the same, but it's different. And that's where that came

0:54:50.360 --> 0:54:52.399
<v Speaker 1>out of. And so every year it was like, I

0:54:52.440 --> 0:54:56.200
<v Speaker 1>think I want to play an Indiana Jones type character.

0:54:56.640 --> 0:54:58.600
<v Speaker 1>Or I remember season I think it was season four

0:54:58.640 --> 0:55:00.759
<v Speaker 1>where I said to the show runner helping, I'm like,

0:55:01.640 --> 0:55:06.600
<v Speaker 1>what if Sherlock Holmes is French and is trying to

0:55:06.680 --> 0:55:09.719
<v Speaker 1>track down me the reverse flash? That would be a

0:55:09.719 --> 0:55:11.840
<v Speaker 1>good storyline. And he was like, I don't know if

0:55:11.840 --> 0:55:13.319
<v Speaker 1>we can get away with the French thing. I'm like, no,

0:55:13.360 --> 0:55:15.520
<v Speaker 1>we can do it. It's going to be great. Trust me,

0:55:15.920 --> 0:55:18.880
<v Speaker 1>he's French, He's show look, show look, look, you know,

0:55:19.040 --> 0:55:22.360
<v Speaker 1>and like by this time we still hadn't gotten canceled,

0:55:22.400 --> 0:55:24.360
<v Speaker 1>but then they're like, yeah, okay, fine.

0:55:24.080 --> 0:55:24.719
<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean.

0:55:25.120 --> 0:55:27.520
<v Speaker 1>It's over an actor, Like if you know, if you're

0:55:27.560 --> 0:55:29.160
<v Speaker 1>lucky enough to be in a long running show like

0:55:29.200 --> 0:55:32.880
<v Speaker 1>that's that's kind of everything right there. You're going to

0:55:32.920 --> 0:55:34.800
<v Speaker 1>play the same character and you're going to be grateful

0:55:34.800 --> 0:55:38.759
<v Speaker 1>for it. Like to have something like this where you know,

0:55:38.880 --> 0:55:42.000
<v Speaker 1>like you get to play the villain who's the same

0:55:42.239 --> 0:55:45.120
<v Speaker 1>and then invent a new character year after year on

0:55:45.160 --> 0:55:47.160
<v Speaker 1>a show that ran nine years, it's kind of like

0:55:47.200 --> 0:55:52.000
<v Speaker 1>it's insane, so that rarely, rarely really happened. So I

0:55:52.040 --> 0:55:53.080
<v Speaker 1>couldn't be more grateful.

0:55:54.080 --> 0:55:58.240
<v Speaker 2>You stepped out a couple of years ago, and now

0:55:58.440 --> 0:56:01.759
<v Speaker 2>this is the ninth year. As you mentioned, it's its

0:56:01.840 --> 0:56:04.239
<v Speaker 2>final season. Are there feeling are you going through the

0:56:04.280 --> 0:56:06.279
<v Speaker 2>feelings even though you're not there every day?

0:56:07.360 --> 0:56:10.600
<v Speaker 1>No? Okay, I mean I think it's different, like I

0:56:10.600 --> 0:56:14.440
<v Speaker 1>think a show like The Office is different. I think

0:56:14.480 --> 0:56:17.239
<v Speaker 1>a half hour is different, you know, I think you

0:56:17.280 --> 0:56:19.400
<v Speaker 1>know how it is like an hour can be like,

0:56:20.360 --> 0:56:24.000
<v Speaker 1>you know, grueling, an hour that is like Law and

0:56:24.160 --> 0:56:28.760
<v Speaker 1>Order can be grueling. It's a whole, big, giant production.

0:56:29.440 --> 0:56:32.120
<v Speaker 1>And after I left after season six, it felt like

0:56:32.160 --> 0:56:34.080
<v Speaker 1>I've always kind of felt like you want to you

0:56:34.120 --> 0:56:36.239
<v Speaker 1>want to do you the best you can to not

0:56:36.400 --> 0:56:38.160
<v Speaker 1>leave on the far side of the mountain, and you

0:56:38.160 --> 0:56:40.759
<v Speaker 1>don't want to overstay. You're welcome, and I felt that

0:56:40.920 --> 0:56:45.160
<v Speaker 1>staying longer would be overstaying my welcome caveat being that

0:56:45.400 --> 0:56:48.480
<v Speaker 1>I knew that Batman's going to need the joker, So

0:56:49.160 --> 0:56:54.000
<v Speaker 1>I had an incredible position where I could leave the show,

0:56:54.080 --> 0:56:57.040
<v Speaker 1>but would I knew that I would be called back

0:56:57.280 --> 0:56:59.840
<v Speaker 1>because I that's the main villain, you know, So it

0:57:00.200 --> 0:57:02.680
<v Speaker 1>couldn't be more ideal because you didn't have to like

0:57:02.960 --> 0:57:06.480
<v Speaker 1>get teary eyed and bid farewell and be upset. And

0:57:06.680 --> 0:57:08.920
<v Speaker 1>sure enough, every year they would call me back to

0:57:08.920 --> 0:57:10.880
<v Speaker 1>do a little bit, So I got to see everybody

0:57:10.920 --> 0:57:12.560
<v Speaker 1>and hang out for a little bit, but also not

0:57:12.640 --> 0:57:14.640
<v Speaker 1>do twenty two in the dark of night, you know

0:57:14.680 --> 0:57:17.440
<v Speaker 1>what I mean. And so I feel like when we

0:57:17.520 --> 0:57:20.240
<v Speaker 1>said goodbye, you know, I think we said goodbye at

0:57:20.240 --> 0:57:22.840
<v Speaker 1>the right time. It was like four and a half years,

0:57:22.880 --> 0:57:25.360
<v Speaker 1>I think, but I remember it being really difficult. I

0:57:25.360 --> 0:57:29.320
<v Speaker 1>remember that being extremely emotional. It just felt like your

0:57:29.640 --> 0:57:31.400
<v Speaker 1>heart was breaking, even though you knew it was the

0:57:32.000 --> 0:57:34.560
<v Speaker 1>right thing, you know. And I think nine years on

0:57:34.600 --> 0:57:38.760
<v Speaker 1>a superhero show. Everybody's like, God, did you cut yet?

0:57:39.160 --> 0:57:39.640
<v Speaker 2>God?

0:57:39.920 --> 0:57:42.040
<v Speaker 1>Okay, bye?

0:57:42.480 --> 0:57:43.080
<v Speaker 2>You know what I mean.

0:57:46.200 --> 0:57:48.479
<v Speaker 1>That's just one person's opinion. I think there'll be many

0:57:48.680 --> 0:57:51.320
<v Speaker 1>actors and actresses on that show who you know, have

0:57:51.880 --> 0:57:54.720
<v Speaker 1>a different thing. But only I think half of the

0:57:54.760 --> 0:57:59.480
<v Speaker 1>OG cast made it through, you know, a full nine anyway,

0:57:59.600 --> 0:58:04.280
<v Speaker 1>so they may have different they may have different impressions.

0:58:04.560 --> 0:58:09.560
<v Speaker 2>Well, you're certainly not looking for things to do. You're

0:58:09.600 --> 0:58:12.720
<v Speaker 2>doing a ton of directing, I understand, including directing the

0:58:12.720 --> 0:58:20.560
<v Speaker 2>premiere of Superman for the CW, another tights wearing hero.

0:58:20.720 --> 0:58:21.439
<v Speaker 1>Exactly right.

0:58:22.400 --> 0:58:26.360
<v Speaker 2>You have a Broadway musical that's in the works, and

0:58:26.600 --> 0:58:31.120
<v Speaker 2>a new game show coming up for Game Show Network. Hey, Yahoo,

0:58:31.640 --> 0:58:35.800
<v Speaker 2>you've done your homework. Man. I mean you're You're everywhere,

0:58:35.960 --> 0:58:45.480
<v Speaker 2>and you know what, this country, America is better for it. Canadians,

0:58:45.720 --> 0:58:49.920
<v Speaker 2>they lost you long ago. I heard twenty five years

0:58:49.920 --> 0:58:53.800
<v Speaker 2>you've been here. You're famously from America.

0:58:53.880 --> 0:58:59.720
<v Speaker 1>Now you're a grand You're a grand human being.

0:59:00.520 --> 0:59:04.440
<v Speaker 2>Tom. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time

0:59:04.720 --> 0:59:05.200
<v Speaker 2>coming on.

0:59:06.200 --> 0:59:09.360
<v Speaker 1>Uh, patient and tolerant. Let me just say I'm gonna

0:59:09.480 --> 0:59:12.080
<v Speaker 1>I am inject with like your patient and tolerant. This

0:59:12.120 --> 0:59:14.640
<v Speaker 1>is a guy who talked about himself for an hour,

0:59:15.160 --> 0:59:19.440
<v Speaker 1>and I feel that just mercy on your and your listeners.

0:59:19.440 --> 0:59:22.440
<v Speaker 1>But you're oh, no, generous. You're generous to have me aboard.

0:59:22.480 --> 0:59:24.800
<v Speaker 1>I appreciate it. It's just great to talk to you.

0:59:24.880 --> 0:59:27.880
<v Speaker 2>Through this work. Don't let's not mistake it. I have

0:59:28.200 --> 0:59:30.680
<v Speaker 2>I have a ticket in the express elevator to Heaven.

0:59:30.800 --> 0:59:33.280
<v Speaker 2>Don't mistake me. Don't mistake me.

0:59:34.040 --> 0:59:36.760
<v Speaker 1>But I wanted to get to heaven and he didn't

0:59:36.760 --> 0:59:40.920
<v Speaker 1>want to wait in line. I don't Hey, hey, Brian,

0:59:41.040 --> 0:59:42.160
<v Speaker 1>come on forward.

0:59:42.360 --> 0:59:46.840
<v Speaker 2>No, I don't do I don't do lines. No, you

0:59:46.920 --> 0:59:52.320
<v Speaker 2>don't do lines, not anymore. Thank you, Tom. I appreciate it.

0:59:52.480 --> 1:00:05.520
<v Speaker 1>Real pleasure, Tom.

1:00:05.720 --> 1:00:08.840
<v Speaker 2>Thank you for joining me and really for becoming my

1:00:08.920 --> 1:00:11.560
<v Speaker 2>new bestie. I'm going to see you soon, all right,

1:00:11.800 --> 1:00:16.160
<v Speaker 2>to be continued as they say in a flash, if

1:00:16.200 --> 1:00:20.000
<v Speaker 2>you will, thank you. Thank you very much, listeners. I'm

1:00:20.000 --> 1:00:22.200
<v Speaker 2>going to see you next week for another episode. I

1:00:22.240 --> 1:00:26.000
<v Speaker 2>can't wait. I hope you will join me. I will

1:00:26.040 --> 1:00:36.920
<v Speaker 2>talk to you then. Off the Beat is hosted and

1:00:37.000 --> 1:00:42.560
<v Speaker 2>executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Linglee,

1:00:42.640 --> 1:00:46.880
<v Speaker 2>our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes,

1:00:47.000 --> 1:00:50.880
<v Speaker 2>Hannah Harris and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan

1:00:51.240 --> 1:00:55.160
<v Speaker 2>Papa Zachary and our intern is Sammy Katz. Our theme

1:00:55.240 --> 1:00:58.960
<v Speaker 2>song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and Only

1:00:59.320 --> 1:00:59.960
<v Speaker 2>Creed Brad