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Speaker 1: Bateman goes in and silence and I'm like that sucks,

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Speaker 1: you know. He walks out. He's like verbatim, now I

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Speaker 1: won't be getting that role. And he sits beside me

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Speaker 1: the two forlorn guys. Third guy goes in and it's deafening.

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Speaker 1: The laughter is deafening. Like they just he's the funniest

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Speaker 1: guy ever, you know what I mean. And they poke

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Speaker 1: the heads out and they look at Jason and like

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Speaker 1: you guys can go, you know, like, okay, thank you.

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Speaker 2: Hi.

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Speaker 1: My name is Tom Cavanaugh, and Brian is an equal

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Speaker 1: opportunity employer because he's hired me, a Canadian, to be

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Speaker 1: on his podcast. Thank you for having me.

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Speaker 2: Hello everybody, and welcome back. Thank you for joining us

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Speaker 2: on a very special episode of Off the Beat. He's

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Speaker 2: gonna be a wild and bumpy ride. I can assure

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Speaker 2: you that I am your host, Brian Baumgartner. But more importantly,

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Speaker 2: my guest today is Well, he's very, very impressive. Some

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Speaker 2: might even say he's a superhero. Okay, well not a superhero,

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Speaker 2: but a super villain. That's right with me today is

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Speaker 2: The Flashes. Tom Cavanaugh aka Sherlock Wells aka Reverse Flash

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Speaker 2: aka Harrison wells, Tom is well, he's amazing. He is

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Speaker 2: so amazing that he plays multiple versions of his character

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Speaker 2: on the Flash. Now. I don't even know what the

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Speaker 2: alter egos of Kevin Malone would look like, but hey,

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Speaker 2: I guess, I guess I'll have to ask Tom today.

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Speaker 2: He's going to get into all of it, from his

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Speaker 2: early days working in Canada, to joining the cast of

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Speaker 2: Ed with our old friend Julie Bowen, to starring on Broadway,

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Speaker 2: to his new game show. Hey, Yahoo, man, he can

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Speaker 2: he can do it all. He can do it all,

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Speaker 2: he can play it all, and he can make me laugh.

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Speaker 2: Here we go. Everybody, buckle up, Tom Kavanaugh, Bubble and Squeak.

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Speaker 2: I love it. Bubble and Squeak.

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Speaker 1: I know.

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Speaker 2: Bubble and Squeaker Cook.

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Speaker 3: Get every moment lift over from the nine before.

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Speaker 2: Hi, Tom, Hey, how are you?

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Speaker 1: How's the guy?

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Speaker 2: I mean, the guy's okay today? How how's the guy?

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Speaker 1: He's good today?

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Speaker 2: He's good.

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Speaker 1: I'm not complaining.

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Speaker 2: Oh that's good. Nobody will care anyway, Nobody. They don't care.

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Speaker 1: They say they care if it is advantageous to their positioning,

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Speaker 1: but they don't really care.

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Speaker 2: No, they don't care at all. Why would they care.

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Speaker 1: They well they care because you're famous, Brian. But that's

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Speaker 1: just again, that's just that's just trying to that's their

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Speaker 1: own agenda. They're advancing their position. You know.

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Speaker 2: Well that makes some sense for them, right.

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Speaker 1: So it's like me and Obama. It's the same thing

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Speaker 1: that everybody they they don't want me, they want to

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Speaker 1: talk to the president. It's the same I get you

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Speaker 1: get used to you know how it is.

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Speaker 2: I get it. No, I totally get it.

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Speaker 1: Align yourself with the president and everybody wants a crash

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Speaker 1: on your count that's how that goes.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, no, exactly. By the way, can we get him

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Speaker 2: on next week?

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Speaker 1: Yeah? Look, I'm just gonna I'll talk to I'll talk

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Speaker 1: to be okay. You know, like he's one of those

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Speaker 1: guys he's gonna say yes to everything, okay, And then

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Speaker 1: his people are going to contact you. They're gonna be

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Speaker 1: like Barrock loves your podcast. Like you'll get him on,

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Speaker 1: for sure, you'll get him on. Yeah, But does it happen?

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Speaker 1: Does it happen next week? I don't know.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, maybe maybe not.

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Speaker 1: Maybe it does, maybe it doesn't. I'm not saying no,

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Speaker 1: I'm going to put in a good word, but does

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Speaker 1: it happen next week? No guarantee.

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Speaker 2: I mean, look, I have seen a letter that he

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Speaker 2: wrote that says Thursday night is the office nights at

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Speaker 2: the White House. Well I've I've seen the note.

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Speaker 1: Right, Well then I feel like I feel that I

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Speaker 1: feel next week is a shoe in. Something must have

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Speaker 1: slipped through the tracks for him to not have done

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Speaker 1: it already.

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Speaker 2: I know, or he hasn't been invited yet. Maybe we

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Speaker 2: Maybe it's a simple as that, maybe that should happen.

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Speaker 1: He's a wiling way. He's like twiddling his thumbs, biting

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Speaker 1: his time, just kind of like not trying to be

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Speaker 1: a dick about it, Like sure those guys will.

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Speaker 2: Give me an invitement some point in time.

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Speaker 1: I know, like he's basically how I was up until today.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, now time and now it's here, and now it's here.

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Speaker 2: Here we are actually we're basically blood brothers. That's the

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Speaker 2: wrong term, but I'm not going to use the other one.

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Speaker 2: Julie Bowen, I was Julie Bowen's on screen love interest

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Speaker 2: right immediately following You done.

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Speaker 1: And she was very clear, she was very clear to

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Speaker 1: me that I was a rung on a ladder. She

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Speaker 1: was very upfront about it, because if you know Julie,

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Speaker 1: you know she's honest. She's like, I'm going places.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know it's going to be.

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Speaker 1: You, Brian, and then if I have a shot at it,

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Speaker 1: Tiberell and so.

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Speaker 2: And so.

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Speaker 1: I just respect the honesty, right, Like she's like a

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Speaker 1: gal's got to start somewhere. Nice to meet you. I'm

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Speaker 1: Julie Bowen, ivy league educated, swear like a sailor, smart

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Speaker 1: as they come, swip snap.

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Speaker 2: Yeah and then see you later. Yeah that is that

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Speaker 2: is so true. Swear It's like a sailor but super smart. Yeah,

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Speaker 2: she's like a whole bunch of things and delightful. All right,

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Speaker 2: enough about Barack and Julie Bowen. You famously, I would say,

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Speaker 2: famously grew up.

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Speaker 1: No matter what you say next, it's not going to

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Speaker 1: be true. Yeah, famously you proceed Tom Cavanaugh and then

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Speaker 1: famously it's just like all you're out like you're across

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Speaker 1: a big X. Grew up in Canada, Sure I did,

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Speaker 1: but not famously.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know. I feel like I knew that

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Speaker 2: before I actually researched. I feel like, oh, yeah, that's.

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Speaker 1: Because that's because you know, Julie and she's like, you

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Speaker 1: know what, Canadians are good for stepping the stones. I'm

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Speaker 1: sure that's how that came up in your head. You're like,

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Speaker 1: I guess people know that about it. Like, no, no,

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Speaker 1: you're the guy that followed the guy.

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Speaker 2: You grew up in Canada but then Ghana. Yeah, so

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Speaker 2: you how much time did you spend there?

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Speaker 1: Well, I just got to say I want to congratulate

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Speaker 1: you on doing some vestige of homework because, by God,

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Speaker 1: like you've got enough stuff going on in your day,

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Speaker 1: you don't have to look up.

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Speaker 2: I've got pages.

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Speaker 1: Okay, hey, we don't need that, my friend. First off,

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Speaker 1: we've got pages. Your viewer slash listeners don't need anything.

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Speaker 1: Any information on me is not going to further them.

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Speaker 1: They're like, oh, I spent some time in Africa, so

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Speaker 1: what you know? But yeah I did. Let's get it

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Speaker 1: out of the way. Yes you did. My parents are teachers.

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Speaker 1: We were in Africa. We grew up without film and

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Speaker 1: television and any of the modern stuff that the current

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Speaker 1: society has. When I can say from my own experience,

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Speaker 1: tremendous way to grow up. And then we moved back

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Speaker 1: to North America for like high school years, basically, and

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Speaker 1: we had to learn to swear and play organized sports

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Speaker 1: and that worked out just fine.

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Speaker 2: You say, it's a fantastic way to grow up. Why

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Speaker 2: was it fantastic? How did it shape you?

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Speaker 1: Well, I have no basis of comparison.

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Speaker 2: Well, that's all right, fair, right, So I.

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Speaker 1: Don't really know, but I look at I don't consider

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Speaker 1: social media to be healthy, and this was like the

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Speaker 1: precursor to some of that was just whatever we had

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Speaker 1: as youngsters growing up in the eighteen hundreds, and so

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Speaker 1: we basically ran around raiding coconut farms and chasing snakes

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Speaker 1: and inventing things mentally. I think one of the reasons

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Speaker 1: I am an actor is because your imagination was everything.

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Speaker 1: Like you just had to either if you were going

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Speaker 1: to have a good day, you also had to have

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Speaker 1: a good imagination. There was no other stimuli really, I

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Speaker 1: mean apart from the aesthetic beauty of the dark continent.

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Speaker 1: So we you know, we were always were making up games.

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Speaker 1: We're playing games and I guess still doing it today, right.

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Speaker 2: My sister and I were just talking about riding big

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Speaker 2: wheels through the woods like fast downhill, playing dukes of hazard.

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Speaker 2: When I was a kid like that was what we

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Speaker 2: were doing and playing and embodying the roles. Obviously you're

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Speaker 2: talking about stuff like that. Were you also performing at

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Speaker 2: all in front of people? Was that a part of

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Speaker 2: the culture there in Ghana?

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Speaker 1: Or I would say not, No, I assume whoever. You know,

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Speaker 1: we had friends that we would just run around and

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Speaker 1: you know, like I say, do things, and I think,

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Speaker 1: you know, like everybody was kind of like, you know,

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Speaker 1: you're you're whatever, you're six, seven, eight years old, nine

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Speaker 1: years old, you're showing off, you're doing whatever the thing is.

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Speaker 1: So is it performing? I guess it is, you know,

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Speaker 1: but there's no organized Hey, we're doing a school play

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Speaker 1: kind of thing.

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Speaker 2: Hell, I think we did.

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Speaker 1: I think I think we did the King and I

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Speaker 1: but you know, like it's an outdoor theater. I remember

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Speaker 1: vividly the parents because you know, imagine being a parent

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Speaker 1: and not being able to provide any kind of pageantry,

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Speaker 1: you know, if you've got to if people are going

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Speaker 1: to take their kids whatever the latest, you know, like

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Speaker 1: Pixar releases, that's an event, right or this thing was

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Speaker 1: coming out and we had zero none of that, you know.

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Speaker 1: So if you think about the amount of time that

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Speaker 1: today's youth in many ways necessarily so spent time in

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Speaker 1: front of a screen. You know, it's it's kind of

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Speaker 1: stunning to think about an existence where nothing like that

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Speaker 1: was an option. And so what do you do with

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Speaker 1: your time? In Africa? It was too hot to have

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Speaker 1: school in the afternoon, so we had school from a

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Speaker 1: thirty to twelve thirty and then in the afternoon, what

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Speaker 1: were you going to do? So it was books, books, books, books,

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Speaker 1: and play play, play play and imagination, imagination, imagination. But

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Speaker 1: I do remember the adults deciding that, you know, they

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Speaker 1: needed to offer the kids something. And back in the

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Speaker 1: day there was stuff like the carober Neet Variety Show,

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Speaker 1: and so they sort of did a mimicked version of

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Speaker 1: something like that, where you know, like Sonny and Cher

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Speaker 1: would come up and sing and then there would be

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Speaker 1: a comment bit, and then there'd be a musical bit, right,

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Speaker 1: you know, and the kids we're outdoors and on front

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Speaker 1: of this like stage, watching these you know, amateur performers.

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Speaker 1: But I remember as a child sitting there, going, this

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Speaker 1: is incredible. You know, all the lights and its darken

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Speaker 1: thing and the palm trees and the stars. You're like this,

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Speaker 1: this is amazing. I have no idea if that had

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Speaker 1: any other kind of like effect on me. But under

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Speaker 1: those circumstances, it was kind of amazing to see performance

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Speaker 1: up in front of you.

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Speaker 2: Yeah, what about music? Are you singing? Are you making

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Speaker 2: up songs? Are you performing songs?

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Speaker 1: Are you My mother is a music teacher, so yeah,

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Speaker 1: all the time. And she went she went back to Africa.

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Speaker 1: When there's five children, they all we're all like university age.

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Speaker 1: And she went back for another three years and again

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Speaker 1: was heavily involved in the music and watching the influence

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Speaker 1: of a small town Canadian woman, you know, like take

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Speaker 1: the music that she knew and then like have a

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Speaker 1: mishmash of all the African culture music that she was

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Speaker 1: exposed to, and putting on those types of performances. Very

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Speaker 1: very cool. So the music was, you know, from as

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Speaker 1: long back as I can remember, always always in the house,

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Speaker 1: Like everybody in the family plays instruments, everybody sings, everybody,

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Speaker 1: everybody performs. When they moved back to North America, my

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Speaker 1: mother was ahead of choir and she was doing community

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Speaker 1: theater and the head of like the music acts and

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Speaker 1: stuff like that. So it was it was always around.

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Speaker 1: And I got my start. I don't know about you, Like,

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Speaker 1: did you I I got my start doing musicals.

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Speaker 2: Yes, that's partly why I'm asking. Yeah, I mean where

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Speaker 2: it was. Did you believe that that's what you were

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Speaker 2: going to do? Musical, musical theater, singing?

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Speaker 1: How how many musicals have you done?

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Speaker 2: Talk singing? There's nobody better, there's nobody better. You need,

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Speaker 2: you need general notes surrounded by rhythm with a hint

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Speaker 2: of comedy. I'm your man. Reg Harrison Rex Harris had

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Speaker 2: nothing on me, not nothing but a real, real singing.

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Speaker 2: I mean I did it when I was a kid.

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Speaker 2: I was in the choir, and then I was in

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Speaker 2: the special choir and had the solos and stuff. It's

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Speaker 2: not pretty, I mean for me, and then I just

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Speaker 2: I just started, you know, once I graduated from school

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Speaker 2: and became and really moving into college and really studying,

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Speaker 2: the music went away. It just yeah, I mean I

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Speaker 2: think I knew in my soul that was not going

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Speaker 2: to be my path.

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Speaker 1: Got unlike you, but you could you could always Like

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Speaker 1: that's the whole thing. It's like, it's funny that you

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Speaker 1: say that, like, and I know you're kind of like

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Speaker 1: semi tongue in cheek about it, but truly like my

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Speaker 1: experience with the musicals has been you want to have

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Speaker 1: somebody who can perform and you know, tell tell the story.

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Speaker 1: I think the audience is nowhere near caught up in

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Speaker 1: the snobbery of like how great is a voice here?

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Speaker 1: Let me give you a perfect example. Has Alan coming

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Speaker 1: done your podcast yet?

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Speaker 2: No? But I but I have to say, I wasn't

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Speaker 2: like one of those like, oh, musicals are dumb, like

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Speaker 2: musical snobbery. It wasn't that like.

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Speaker 1: The way you might not know this, but like Julie Bowen, right,

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Speaker 1: Julie Bonen was like, I went to see the musical.

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Speaker 1: You know, we shot a show we did together in

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Speaker 1: New York. I'd go see a music with her. Her

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Speaker 1: fingernails would dig into my into my thighs as people

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Speaker 1: began as they broke into song, She's like, I don't

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Speaker 1: understand why they break into song. It never works. I

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Speaker 1: hate it when I cringe when they break into I

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Speaker 1: feel so embarrassed for them when they break into song.

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Speaker 2: I wasn't there, but I just I just kind of

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Speaker 2: had stopped, you know, in my trips to New York

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Speaker 2: or whatever it was, it was all more straight theater.

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Speaker 2: But I saw Alan coming very early on in in Cabaret, and.

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Speaker 1: This is what I'm talking about.

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Speaker 2: It was transformative.

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Speaker 1: He's spectacular, and he's spectacular. This is the whole thing.

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Speaker 1: So I've worked them, you know, and now and again

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Speaker 1: he I defy you to go, is he a good

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Speaker 1: or a bad singer? Alan's so honest and abrupt, and

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Speaker 1: you know, he's just so such a powerful persona. I

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Speaker 1: think he's spectacular, but I do know it's all performance,

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Speaker 1: Like he embodies whatever story he's telling in that song,

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Speaker 1: and it's got nothing to do with like quality of

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Speaker 1: voice or whatever the thing is. It gets somebody, you know,

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Speaker 1: acclaimed as a singer, and it's interesting to watch somebody

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Speaker 1: who can do that where you're just like if you're

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Speaker 1: a lead on Broadway and nobody's sniping at your singing

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Speaker 1: qualities because you're telling the story and he's you know,

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Speaker 1: Cabaret is a perfect example. Spectacular in Cabaret, like just untouchable,

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Speaker 1: you know. And I did that play twenty years prior

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Speaker 1: to that, and some some of the Broadway plays that

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Speaker 1: I've done, I know for a fact, and everybody who's

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Speaker 1: in the company can back me up. I'm the worst

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Speaker 1: singer on the stage, always like there's nobody poorer than me,

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Speaker 1: and you know, people, that's not self deprecating, that's not modest,

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Speaker 1: that's just plain facts. Son. And if you were to

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Speaker 1: liign people up and go who's the worst, Yeah, Tom,

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Speaker 1: Tom's the worst. He's clearly the worst, you know. And

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Speaker 1: yet like you get cast because I can tell, hopefully,

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Speaker 1: I'm telling a story. And that's why, you know, to

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Speaker 1: say Alan Cummings, like he's telling a story, You're wrapped,

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Speaker 1: you're paying attention. He's adding, like you said, when you're

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Speaker 1: talking about yourself, you want a bit of humor, whether

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Speaker 1: you didn't think there was going to be humor, he

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Speaker 1: can do that. We can do that, And suddenly people

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Speaker 1: are like they're accepting. They're not like, let me see

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Speaker 1: your card carrying membership of your high seat. Don't have it,

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Speaker 1: you know, like that's not it's not part of it.

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Speaker 1: And that was my experience for a decade. The only

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Speaker 1: other thing about that is when you're making your living

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Speaker 1: in musical theater, there's constant trauma at the fact that

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Speaker 1: you suck. So here's the story I don't think I've

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Speaker 1: ever told, not even my own podcast, by the way,

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Speaker 1: Mates Mike and Tommy. It' snaxt. So I was auditioning

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Speaker 1: for the out of town thing of this thing was

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Speaker 1: going to Broadway. Philip Rose, a kind of acclaimed New

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Speaker 1: York City director, and I had to do an acting

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Speaker 1: scene with the Venerable John Cullum where I asked for

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Speaker 1: his daughter's hand in marriage. It was a five page scene,

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Speaker 1: as they write in theater, and I was like, if

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Speaker 1: I can get to that, we're going to be okay.

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Speaker 1: But you got to sing right, And so I practiced

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Speaker 1: my song. And by this time, I was like, you know,

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Speaker 1: a good ten years or so into the career musical theater,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, I knew that. Don't come in

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Speaker 1: and sing old Man River. So I found this thing

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Speaker 1: by this guy, Bernard Cribbins, who wrote a song called

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Speaker 1: the Bird on the second Floor, and it's just basically,

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Speaker 1: like you say spoken, it's not spoken. He sings a

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Speaker 1: jolly old moon's going to shant and which way you

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Speaker 1: look at it, I'm all right, wait sing full of

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Speaker 1: the bird second floor. I'm telling all the birds that

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Speaker 1: are used to date, it's been a giggle, please don't wait.

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Speaker 1: Since I saw the Bird on the Zagon floor something

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Speaker 1: like that, and then it was there's this little pattern

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Speaker 1: in between, like, oh, second full, why don't they get

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Speaker 1: lifted here? Still? No matter what is it Thursday steaking

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Speaker 1: Kidney Pie whoa lovely because something she has got right?

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Speaker 1: You know, people are coming in singing old Man River

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Speaker 1: and they're like, then this guy walks in like and

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Speaker 1: they're just like, what the fuck is happening? You know

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Speaker 1: what's this guy doing? You know, like to distract them

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Speaker 1: from the fact that I'm not I'm no good singing wise,

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Speaker 1: you know. So I had that ready to go in

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Speaker 1: my back pocket, and then I was like nerves, like

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Speaker 1: hopefully I can sing good enough. And the guy who

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Speaker 1: went in in front of me. You know how this

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Speaker 1: is you can hear the person in the room, yeah,

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Speaker 1: ahead of you, Like I have a great thing where

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Speaker 1: Jason Bateman and I were reading for the lead role

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Speaker 1: in an ABC pilot and there was a third guy

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Speaker 1: and Bateman wasn't like doing everything at the time. It

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Speaker 1: was pre arrested development, but I knew he was a

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Speaker 1: super talented there, very nice guy, and so I got

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Speaker 1: into the studio that afternoon and they had been like

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Speaker 1: a love fest. I was like, oh, people are like, yeah,

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Speaker 1: they love you, they love you, they love you, and

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Speaker 1: you're gonna you're gonna be great. This is your role,

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Speaker 1: blah blah, you're the front runner, all this stuff which

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Speaker 1: you never want to hear. Then I go in and

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Speaker 1: I do the exact same read, and I know the

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Speaker 1: fact that the read was good more a tyranny. This

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Speaker 1: is all name dropping. Kevin Bagan told me never drop

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Speaker 1: a name, but this is your podcast, and I'll never

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Speaker 1: forget her looking at me like as the silence descended

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Speaker 1: and Tumbleweeds blew through and you could hear a distant

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Speaker 1: wolf thing in the background, and nobody said anything, just

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Speaker 1: kind of stared at me, and I was like hmm,

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Speaker 1: and I was like, so I walk out. I went

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Speaker 1: in first, I'm like, holy crap. And then they make

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Speaker 1: you wait around, right, and so so you're just like

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Speaker 1: so you can like then be told to in person

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Speaker 1: you were awful.

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Speaker 2: So you can go now.

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Speaker 1: Yes, I did all the same stuff. I watched Silence.

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Speaker 1: Bateman goes in and Silence and I'm like that sucks,

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Speaker 1: you know. He walks out. He's like Beta, now I

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Speaker 1: won't be getting that role. And he sits beside me

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Speaker 1: the two forlorn guys. Third guy goes in and it's deafening.

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Speaker 1: The laughter is deafening, Like they just he's the funniest

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Speaker 1: guy ever, you know what I mean. Then they poke

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Speaker 1: the heads out and they look at Jason and like

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Speaker 1: you guys can go.

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Speaker 2: You know.

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Speaker 1: I'm like, okay, thank you. I don't know why I started.

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Speaker 1: Oh yeah. So then so I'm auditioning for this play

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Speaker 1: that's going the Broadway. And the guy goes in in

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Speaker 1: front of me, and guess what he sayings Brian old

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Speaker 1: Man River and he starts off like and I can

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Speaker 1: hear everything like and he builds to this giant crescendo,

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Speaker 1: and the walls of the place are shaken, you know,

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Speaker 1: speak its rolling, you know. And he comes out and

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Speaker 1: there's like applause, like you're twenty people in the room

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Speaker 1: and you can hear him clapping, and then it's like

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Speaker 1: door opens, tom So, so I go on, exactly, this

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Speaker 1: is what the just says to me. You know, they're

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Speaker 1: Jason Bateman and me. Even he gets up on the table.

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Speaker 1: He's like one hundred and sixty years old, and he

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Speaker 1: walks over and his like tweed coat, you know, his

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Speaker 1: big Big Glasses comes over and he kind of he

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Speaker 1: does this, he crosses his arms, he kind of like

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Speaker 1: purses his lips and kind of like rubs his chin,

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Speaker 1: and he's like, did you bring anything real to sing?

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Speaker 1: So that I go? So that didn't work, so I say,

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Speaker 1: why don't you give me what I will have to

402
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Speaker 1: sing in the play, which kind of feels a little

403
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Speaker 1: bit like the death mell. But then he's like, all right,

404
00:21:40,680 --> 00:21:44,440
Speaker 1: well let's read first. I'm like, aha, we do the read.

405
00:21:44,720 --> 00:21:47,280
Speaker 1: It's like it's pratt Fall City because he's got to

406
00:21:47,320 --> 00:21:50,000
Speaker 1: be and you know, the red is like goes swimmingly well,

407
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,479
Speaker 1: and I can feel the whole room change, Like this

408
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Speaker 1: guy doesn't have to be a great singer. You know,

409
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Speaker 1: you end up getting the up, getting the part, but

410
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Speaker 1: it is the Alan Coming of it all. It's just like, look,

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Speaker 1: you know, like let's have a couple of really fancy,

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Speaker 1: great singers in your show and then we can have me.

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Speaker 1: You know, It's like we do we have a slot for?

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Speaker 2: Yeah, you know this guy. It's crazy because I don't

415
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Speaker 2: think I mean just that you brought up Alan Coming,

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Speaker 2: because I don't think you could have pulled any other name,

417
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Speaker 2: Like I loved the performance so much, I would like

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Speaker 2: like not changed my life. But like, but if you

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Speaker 2: had followed that up like, oh did you see Alan coming? Oh? Yeah,

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Speaker 2: he was amazing. If you had followed up that and

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Speaker 2: said is he a good singer? I couldn't have answered

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Speaker 2: the question like truly, so your point is well taken,

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Speaker 2: Like I would probably have said something like I assume, yeah,

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Speaker 2: yeah he must have been because he was so good. Well,

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Speaker 2: you may have changed my life today because I keep

426
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Speaker 2: getting approached or I have been approached to do some musicals.

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Speaker 2: I've been nervous.

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Speaker 1: You got to do it. I feel like as a

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Speaker 1: guy who's done like, you know, a couple thousand musicals

430
00:23:07,840 --> 00:23:11,679
Speaker 1: and sucks, you know, like there's always that complete terror.

431
00:23:12,480 --> 00:23:15,280
Speaker 1: But you know as well as I do, like good

432
00:23:15,320 --> 00:23:17,359
Speaker 1: things can come from that, you know, like good things

433
00:23:17,359 --> 00:23:18,680
Speaker 1: can come from like all right, I'm just going to

434
00:23:19,200 --> 00:23:21,080
Speaker 1: work as hard as I can to not make a

435
00:23:21,119 --> 00:23:23,639
Speaker 1: complete and utter fool of myself in front of all

436
00:23:23,680 --> 00:23:26,399
Speaker 1: these people. And then like you, you know, you're literally

437
00:23:26,440 --> 00:23:29,760
Speaker 1: fighting for survival, you know, and everywhere you are around you,

438
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:33,640
Speaker 1: at least my experience, everybody is like much better than

439
00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,439
Speaker 1: you in at least one facet of being able to

440
00:23:36,440 --> 00:23:39,080
Speaker 1: tell the tale. And so it's just like it sharpens

441
00:23:39,119 --> 00:23:42,280
Speaker 1: your game a little bit. You become like better at survival,

442
00:23:42,320 --> 00:23:44,480
Speaker 1: you become like the things that you're good at, you

443
00:23:44,520 --> 00:23:46,720
Speaker 1: have to really home them. You can't take a day off,

444
00:23:47,119 --> 00:23:48,720
Speaker 1: you know, you have to work as hard as you can.

445
00:23:48,840 --> 00:23:51,320
Speaker 1: And it makes you better, you know, just you know,

446
00:23:51,600 --> 00:23:53,919
Speaker 1: have a decade of terror for me, Like oh bo

447
00:23:53,960 --> 00:23:55,560
Speaker 1: I hear we go. I remember, like I did this

448
00:23:55,680 --> 00:23:58,399
Speaker 1: play year in town and I remember before going on

449
00:23:58,480 --> 00:24:01,480
Speaker 1: to Broadway for the first time, I'm about to make

450
00:24:01,520 --> 00:24:03,800
Speaker 1: my entrance and I have to sing shortly thereafter. I

451
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,960
Speaker 1: remember like the lights going on and like count happening.

452
00:24:06,960 --> 00:24:09,399
Speaker 1: I remember in my head going, who the hell do

453
00:24:09,480 --> 00:24:12,920
Speaker 1: you think you are? Like that was ringing in my head.

454
00:24:13,240 --> 00:24:16,160
Speaker 1: What are you think you're doing? You know what I mean?

455
00:24:16,600 --> 00:24:20,520
Speaker 1: And it's like always a constant fight against like oh boy,

456
00:24:20,880 --> 00:24:23,280
Speaker 1: you know, like just trying to like all right, let's

457
00:24:23,280 --> 00:24:24,520
Speaker 1: see if I can get away. Let's see if I can

458
00:24:24,560 --> 00:24:26,720
Speaker 1: get away with this one. But it's you're not going

459
00:24:26,800 --> 00:24:28,720
Speaker 1: to go on and go like oh, I'm really surprised

460
00:24:28,720 --> 00:24:30,880
Speaker 1: by that. There's nothing that they can throw at you.

461
00:24:30,960 --> 00:24:33,960
Speaker 1: I think in front of a camera that you're going

462
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,520
Speaker 1: to say, oh that terrified me today. You know, like

463
00:24:37,600 --> 00:24:41,840
Speaker 1: you you're just but being in front of like the

464
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:45,640
Speaker 1: audience and doing the musical. You know, there's there's there's

465
00:24:45,720 --> 00:24:48,840
Speaker 1: built in terror there and that's not a bad in

466
00:24:48,920 --> 00:24:51,960
Speaker 1: terms of like living your life and experiences and stuff like.

467
00:24:52,000 --> 00:24:54,520
Speaker 1: I you know, I assume you're gonna win a Tony

468
00:24:54,800 --> 00:24:56,800
Speaker 1: for the next thing, and I'm going to be so

469
00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,399
Speaker 1: furious when you're like, you know, I always want to

470
00:24:59,760 --> 00:25:00,560
Speaker 1: know what gonna mention?

471
00:25:01,119 --> 00:25:03,240
Speaker 2: No talk of this, No, I'll bring it. I will

472
00:25:03,280 --> 00:25:05,280
Speaker 2: bring it up, for sure, I'll bring it up.

473
00:25:05,400 --> 00:25:16,919
Speaker 3: Yeah, you will get you'll get thanked, Okay, you'll get thankes.

474
00:25:27,960 --> 00:25:32,680
Speaker 2: So back to Canada. You're doing theater, you're doing musical, theater,

475
00:25:32,800 --> 00:25:36,800
Speaker 2: You're doing a little bit of everything. You like. Pamela Anderson,

476
00:25:37,240 --> 00:25:39,200
Speaker 2: Uh do some work for Le Bat Blue.

477
00:25:39,320 --> 00:25:41,280
Speaker 1: I feel like that's the first time we've been using

478
00:25:41,320 --> 00:25:44,080
Speaker 1: the same sentence, thank you for that. Uh pretty sure?

479
00:25:44,160 --> 00:25:45,320
Speaker 2: Really that's good.

480
00:25:45,760 --> 00:25:47,959
Speaker 1: Oh no, wait, there is another one that Tom Kavanaugh.

481
00:25:48,040 --> 00:25:50,520
Speaker 1: He's no Pamela Anderson, that's the other sentence.

482
00:25:51,000 --> 00:25:54,560
Speaker 2: Oh right, that was my other joke. Production in Canada

483
00:25:55,800 --> 00:25:58,520
Speaker 2: similar to the United States. Oh me, you do some

484
00:25:58,640 --> 00:26:01,840
Speaker 2: others up. Jake and the Kid is an early television

485
00:26:01,880 --> 00:26:02,760
Speaker 2: show that you do.

486
00:26:02,840 --> 00:26:04,720
Speaker 1: Throwing me the fact that you put in this much.

487
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:06,600
Speaker 1: I feel like I got to up my game and

488
00:26:06,680 --> 00:26:10,480
Speaker 1: provide you with some socking kind of entertainment. Thank God

489
00:26:10,520 --> 00:26:14,760
Speaker 1: for the enviet But yeah, it's an interesting thing. I think,

490
00:26:14,840 --> 00:26:19,480
Speaker 1: like you, I don't like talking about myself. It's and

491
00:26:19,760 --> 00:26:22,560
Speaker 1: that's all we are doing on this stupid thing. But

492
00:26:23,040 --> 00:26:25,399
Speaker 1: I appreciate you and respect you, so I'm gonna like,

493
00:26:25,560 --> 00:26:28,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna do my best. It is the same because

494
00:26:28,880 --> 00:26:33,160
Speaker 1: of the cultural difference between the two places. It provides

495
00:26:33,200 --> 00:26:35,439
Speaker 1: you with something that I think is I don't know

496
00:26:35,440 --> 00:26:39,240
Speaker 1: if the word is necessary, but extremely helpful to a

497
00:26:39,240 --> 00:26:43,679
Speaker 1: young actor in that the grips are they're moving the

498
00:26:43,680 --> 00:26:47,200
Speaker 1: c stands, you know, the gaffers, you know, fixing the

499
00:26:47,960 --> 00:26:51,080
Speaker 1: keno like that. It's all the same the sand bags

500
00:26:51,119 --> 00:26:55,080
Speaker 1: were putting the sand bags down. It's all the same set.

501
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:59,359
Speaker 1: There's a confluence of blunstone boots, there's you know, there's

502
00:26:59,480 --> 00:27:03,000
Speaker 1: a lot of wearing smoking, and as long as you

503
00:27:03,040 --> 00:27:05,920
Speaker 1: do your job well, you get to keep coming back.

504
00:27:05,960 --> 00:27:08,560
Speaker 1: I've often felt that like the Crew in many ways

505
00:27:08,760 --> 00:27:11,880
Speaker 1: are people that figured out that their favorite subject often

506
00:27:12,359 --> 00:27:15,679
Speaker 1: in school was recess and they figured out how to

507
00:27:15,760 --> 00:27:18,240
Speaker 1: have recess full time, where it's like, look, I can

508
00:27:18,280 --> 00:27:20,960
Speaker 1: do anything. I can wear this, and I can say this,

509
00:27:21,440 --> 00:27:23,240
Speaker 1: and I can I can do this, and I can

510
00:27:23,280 --> 00:27:25,280
Speaker 1: have these tattoos and I can wear the shirt and

511
00:27:25,359 --> 00:27:28,000
Speaker 1: everything is fine because I'm good at my job, right

512
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,520
Speaker 1: And you know, that's that's kind of how it is.

513
00:27:31,560 --> 00:27:33,600
Speaker 1: It's like, if you love what you do, then it's

514
00:27:33,640 --> 00:27:37,240
Speaker 1: not it's not kind of work. It's all the same feel,

515
00:27:37,680 --> 00:27:41,159
Speaker 1: it's all the same kind of thing. And then cut

516
00:27:41,240 --> 00:27:42,840
Speaker 1: and that's a wrap and you go out there and

517
00:27:42,880 --> 00:27:48,280
Speaker 1: nobody knows anything about what show you did and what

518
00:27:48,320 --> 00:27:51,000
Speaker 1: you're doing. And this is not my line. This is

519
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:53,120
Speaker 1: a Canadian. Another Canadian actor said that there's a star

520
00:27:53,240 --> 00:27:56,040
Speaker 1: making ladder in Canada, but it lies flat on the ground.

521
00:27:56,400 --> 00:27:59,720
Speaker 1: And so so, you know, in a strange way because

522
00:27:59,760 --> 00:28:02,600
Speaker 1: of our our cultural differences, you know, like in America,

523
00:28:02,680 --> 00:28:08,440
Speaker 1: you're you're going to celebrate this kind of different from

524
00:28:08,480 --> 00:28:11,840
Speaker 1: the packability and you're going to promote it. And in

525
00:28:11,880 --> 00:28:16,439
Speaker 1: Canada there's more of a socialism aspect to the idea

526
00:28:16,520 --> 00:28:20,199
Speaker 1: that we're all in this together. Let's not be showing

527
00:28:20,240 --> 00:28:23,000
Speaker 1: off and doing all these things. If you look at

528
00:28:23,040 --> 00:28:25,439
Speaker 1: like the difference between here's the sports and OGE. If

529
00:28:25,440 --> 00:28:29,720
Speaker 1: you look at the NBA players and you know their

530
00:28:29,800 --> 00:28:33,280
Speaker 1: personas and their platforms, and then you look at the

531
00:28:33,400 --> 00:28:36,280
Speaker 1: NHL people you know, and it doesn't have to be

532
00:28:36,359 --> 00:28:38,320
Speaker 1: that way, but it's kind of almost almost famous. Be

533
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:41,600
Speaker 1: like if you're from Timmins or Kirkland Lake, you know,

534
00:28:41,760 --> 00:28:43,680
Speaker 1: you're like, you don't need to make a big show

535
00:28:43,720 --> 00:28:48,560
Speaker 1: of yourself. And so it's for a young actor that

536
00:28:48,840 --> 00:28:51,720
Speaker 1: wants to be famous, it's not the route that you

537
00:28:52,280 --> 00:28:54,760
Speaker 1: want to take. And that's not a bad thing because

538
00:28:54,920 --> 00:28:56,960
Speaker 1: the result of that is if what you want to

539
00:28:57,000 --> 00:29:00,800
Speaker 1: do is just be famous, you'll be weed it out

540
00:29:01,560 --> 00:29:03,680
Speaker 1: and what will remain are the people that love to

541
00:29:03,720 --> 00:29:05,680
Speaker 1: do it and want to do it and want to

542
00:29:05,720 --> 00:29:07,840
Speaker 1: do it for a living and don't care about acclaim

543
00:29:07,920 --> 00:29:12,120
Speaker 1: and profile. They're there going to work, We're there. I'm

544
00:29:12,160 --> 00:29:13,960
Speaker 1: there going to work on Jaco and the Kid, which

545
00:29:14,760 --> 00:29:18,600
Speaker 1: a show I adored, you know, set in the Saskatchewan

546
00:29:18,680 --> 00:29:24,239
Speaker 1: Prairies with the stunning, awesome beauty wall to wall, you know,

547
00:29:24,840 --> 00:29:28,920
Speaker 1: fields and Big the Giant, Big Sky of the Canadian Prairies,

548
00:29:29,160 --> 00:29:32,560
Speaker 1: a show that I absolutely adored going to work on,

549
00:29:33,120 --> 00:29:36,360
Speaker 1: and I don't know that anybody saw it, you know,

550
00:29:36,440 --> 00:29:38,200
Speaker 1: And I know that it ran for two years, you

551
00:29:38,280 --> 00:29:40,240
Speaker 1: know what I mean, And that didn't matter, Like, it

552
00:29:40,240 --> 00:29:42,640
Speaker 1: didn't it didn't even factor into the equation. So by

553
00:29:42,720 --> 00:29:44,400
Speaker 1: the time I started getting and then you know, a

554
00:29:44,440 --> 00:29:48,720
Speaker 1: decade of musical theater, you know, Broadway has its own groups,

555
00:29:48,760 --> 00:29:51,440
Speaker 1: for sure, but in terms of like the giant scheme

556
00:29:51,480 --> 00:29:55,360
Speaker 1: of like what actors get known, it's relatively small. And

557
00:29:55,400 --> 00:29:57,840
Speaker 1: so by the time you gain any kind of profile,

558
00:29:58,320 --> 00:30:02,080
Speaker 1: you don't really care, you know, you don't like you're like, yeah, okay,

559
00:30:02,120 --> 00:30:04,280
Speaker 1: that's you know, like people are now saying, hey, be

560
00:30:04,440 --> 00:30:09,880
Speaker 1: on Conan, but you're past the part of being seduced.

561
00:30:09,880 --> 00:30:12,400
Speaker 1: And I think that's in a strange way helpful, because

562
00:30:12,480 --> 00:30:14,560
Speaker 1: what you want to focus on is telling the story

563
00:30:14,560 --> 00:30:15,920
Speaker 1: as best as you can tell the story.

564
00:30:16,000 --> 00:30:23,200
Speaker 2: That's right, that's right, and also without those external factors,

565
00:30:23,840 --> 00:30:28,800
Speaker 2: which almost necessarily comes in in terms of getting publicity

566
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,280
Speaker 2: and all of those things in the United States, just

567
00:30:31,360 --> 00:30:36,120
Speaker 2: having the ability to do your work without those external distractions,

568
00:30:37,560 --> 00:30:40,240
Speaker 2: especially as a young actor who can actually then learn

569
00:30:40,600 --> 00:30:44,200
Speaker 2: what it is to be acting with the grip who's

570
00:30:44,200 --> 00:30:47,280
Speaker 2: smoking and moving that like doing his job totally fine.

571
00:30:47,480 --> 00:30:50,400
Speaker 2: But all of those things as a young actor getting

572
00:30:50,400 --> 00:30:53,240
Speaker 2: on set, those are obstacles that you have to that

573
00:30:53,320 --> 00:30:56,080
Speaker 2: you have to overcome, and so not having those external

574
00:30:56,120 --> 00:30:59,160
Speaker 2: things to me seems like that seems really cool.

575
00:31:00,120 --> 00:31:02,520
Speaker 1: It's huge. I think it's I think it's huge. I

576
00:31:02,520 --> 00:31:06,080
Speaker 1: think of now with social media. You know, I do

577
00:31:06,120 --> 00:31:08,479
Speaker 1: this television show. It's a superhero show that I direct

578
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:11,400
Speaker 1: and act in, and you know it's the superhero shows

579
00:31:11,400 --> 00:31:14,760
Speaker 1: are generally populated by young, attractive actors, you know, and

580
00:31:14,800 --> 00:31:17,520
Speaker 1: then you've got like, you know, a couple of dudes

581
00:31:17,560 --> 00:31:20,720
Speaker 1: like myself and Jesse Martin another like you know from Rent,

582
00:31:20,760 --> 00:31:25,240
Speaker 1: another huge Broadway guy. But he I look at young

583
00:31:25,280 --> 00:31:27,719
Speaker 1: actors who are getting famous at the age of twenty,

584
00:31:28,040 --> 00:31:32,040
Speaker 1: and I think it's great for bank accounts and all

585
00:31:32,040 --> 00:31:34,040
Speaker 1: that kind of stuff. But like you say, like the

586
00:31:34,080 --> 00:31:36,840
Speaker 1: mistakes I'm making and the overacting I'm doing on Jake

587
00:31:36,880 --> 00:31:38,760
Speaker 1: and the kid like I'm getting, you know, like every

588
00:31:38,800 --> 00:31:41,920
Speaker 1: day you're getting a little bit better. You're always trying

589
00:31:42,240 --> 00:31:45,760
Speaker 1: to get better. And if you know, just this male

590
00:31:45,800 --> 00:31:48,120
Speaker 1: stream of attention is focused on you when you're twenty

591
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,800
Speaker 1: four or twenty five, twenty six, and you know, like

592
00:31:50,800 --> 00:31:54,800
Speaker 1: like any other profession, you hopefully keep improving. To this day,

593
00:31:54,840 --> 00:31:56,680
Speaker 1: I still feel like, got it, got it, try and

594
00:31:56,680 --> 00:31:58,960
Speaker 1: get good. You're always trying to trying to get there,

595
00:31:59,560 --> 00:32:03,800
Speaker 1: right we You know, I grew up in a in

596
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,920
Speaker 1: a way like you know, if I had had a

597
00:32:06,920 --> 00:32:10,440
Speaker 1: massive amount of attention on you know, I think the

598
00:32:10,640 --> 00:32:14,000
Speaker 1: the early days and the stuff that I did on film,

599
00:32:14,120 --> 00:32:16,120
Speaker 1: they'd be like, well, we should never hire this person

600
00:32:16,640 --> 00:32:19,400
Speaker 1: again because he's terrible.

601
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:21,120
Speaker 3: You know.

602
00:32:22,600 --> 00:32:25,600
Speaker 2: Well I don't know about that, because you you come

603
00:32:25,640 --> 00:32:29,360
Speaker 2: out of the gate pretty. You know.

604
00:32:29,400 --> 00:32:33,080
Speaker 1: I've seen some stuff on CBC, you know, the Canadian

605
00:32:33,120 --> 00:32:36,560
Speaker 1: Broadcasting Corporation where you know, I've got like, you know,

606
00:32:36,640 --> 00:32:41,680
Speaker 1: long hair, and I look awful and and I'm awful.

607
00:32:41,760 --> 00:32:44,920
Speaker 1: I'm awful on camera, awful, you know, and you're just like,

608
00:32:45,000 --> 00:32:47,320
Speaker 1: holy cow, Like how did they not like just like

609
00:32:47,600 --> 00:32:51,240
Speaker 1: cut hangs like fire him that person, get that person

610
00:32:51,280 --> 00:32:53,840
Speaker 1: that would just stay stay stay, You're like you and

611
00:32:53,920 --> 00:32:56,920
Speaker 1: so but then you like you know, like you you see,

612
00:32:57,320 --> 00:32:59,440
Speaker 1: I had a friend who was an editor and I

613
00:32:59,440 --> 00:33:02,800
Speaker 1: got to sit in the in the edit, and you know,

614
00:33:02,840 --> 00:33:05,880
Speaker 1: I had a director who you know, invited me into

615
00:33:05,880 --> 00:33:08,520
Speaker 1: the into the edit because she was like, she was like,

616
00:33:08,560 --> 00:33:10,480
Speaker 1: you know, you have directing ability, you kind of know

617
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:12,880
Speaker 1: what the camera's doing. This will help you learn. And

618
00:33:12,920 --> 00:33:16,800
Speaker 1: it was, you know, massively instrumental. Also, you get to

619
00:33:17,200 --> 00:33:19,200
Speaker 1: you get to gauge your performance, you know, and you're

620
00:33:19,240 --> 00:33:23,480
Speaker 1: just like, oh my god, that's that's terrible, you know,

621
00:33:23,520 --> 00:33:25,960
Speaker 1: and then you start, you know, you start improving, you

622
00:33:26,000 --> 00:33:28,520
Speaker 1: start figuring out what you know, you need to have

623
00:33:28,560 --> 00:33:30,560
Speaker 1: the thought and be in the moment and actually listen,

624
00:33:30,960 --> 00:33:33,200
Speaker 1: you know, and all those things sound so easy, but

625
00:33:33,240 --> 00:33:35,640
Speaker 1: as you know, like if you can do those things,

626
00:33:35,720 --> 00:33:39,480
Speaker 1: then actually you probably will turn in it a good performance.

627
00:33:39,480 --> 00:33:41,880
Speaker 1: They're much much more elusive and slippery and hard to do,

628
00:33:42,000 --> 00:33:43,160
Speaker 1: harder to do than they sound.

629
00:33:43,320 --> 00:33:46,160
Speaker 2: Right. I want to talk to you about acting in

630
00:33:46,360 --> 00:33:51,840
Speaker 2: theater and on the stage versus film and television. Do

631
00:33:51,920 --> 00:33:57,400
Speaker 2: you consider it to be different versions of the same

632
00:33:57,480 --> 00:34:00,000
Speaker 2: thing or is it different for you?

633
00:34:00,360 --> 00:34:03,480
Speaker 1: Brian, Such a good question, because I think I think

634
00:34:03,480 --> 00:34:06,720
Speaker 1: you sort of want to say it isn't because you're

635
00:34:06,960 --> 00:34:09,919
Speaker 1: telling a story and yet there's a difference to telling

636
00:34:09,920 --> 00:34:11,920
Speaker 1: the story all at once in the immediacy of the

637
00:34:11,960 --> 00:34:14,440
Speaker 1: audience and electricity in the air and the feedback that

638
00:34:14,480 --> 00:34:16,840
Speaker 1: you get that as you know, like you know, like

639
00:34:16,920 --> 00:34:19,840
Speaker 1: if you and I acting on camera, like we're going

640
00:34:19,920 --> 00:34:22,719
Speaker 1: to know when we're in the zone, and we're going

641
00:34:22,760 --> 00:34:25,040
Speaker 1: to know when we're we're not in the zone. It's

642
00:34:25,080 --> 00:34:27,520
Speaker 1: going to be up to you and I to feel that,

643
00:34:27,800 --> 00:34:30,680
Speaker 1: you know, and theaters are same, but there's also there's

644
00:34:30,680 --> 00:34:34,200
Speaker 1: a palpable energy that you know, some kind of ephemeral

645
00:34:34,239 --> 00:34:37,920
Speaker 1: code that comes from a thousand people in the stands.

646
00:34:38,480 --> 00:34:40,600
Speaker 1: Very early on, like you know, tried to figure it

647
00:34:40,640 --> 00:34:43,239
Speaker 1: was trying to figure out what the people who I

648
00:34:43,320 --> 00:34:47,959
Speaker 1: thought were amazing we're doing, you know, And I tried

649
00:34:47,960 --> 00:34:51,920
Speaker 1: to watch you know, every like if you John Malkovich

650
00:34:52,160 --> 00:34:55,880
Speaker 1: burn this on stage I think eighty seven on Broadway,

651
00:34:55,920 --> 00:34:58,920
Speaker 1: Like you watch Malcovich the play is great, but he

652
00:34:59,040 --> 00:35:03,080
Speaker 1: comes in there like watch this, everybody, sit the fuck down,

653
00:35:03,200 --> 00:35:06,480
Speaker 1: watch this entrance, you know what I mean. And and

654
00:35:06,520 --> 00:35:09,279
Speaker 1: then Brando in Streetcar from the first thing like just

655
00:35:09,400 --> 00:35:12,000
Speaker 1: there's these are just there's there's one hundred and fifty

656
00:35:12,040 --> 00:35:16,000
Speaker 1: things streep, you know, like I remember her and Kevin

657
00:35:16,040 --> 00:35:19,760
Speaker 1: Klein sophie' choyce going like why is she? What the hell?

658
00:35:19,960 --> 00:35:23,200
Speaker 1: And I remember like dissecting those things. This is way back, obviously,

659
00:35:23,600 --> 00:35:27,040
Speaker 1: but I was so young and they were so good,

660
00:35:27,160 --> 00:35:29,719
Speaker 1: you know, and they all seem to be so in

661
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,080
Speaker 1: the moment, you know, and so either on stage or

662
00:35:33,120 --> 00:35:35,480
Speaker 1: on camera, and I was like, well, there's something that

663
00:35:35,760 --> 00:35:39,120
Speaker 1: Brando's doing on stage, or something Brando's doing, you know,

664
00:35:40,200 --> 00:35:42,960
Speaker 1: on camera that feels like stage to me. And I

665
00:35:42,960 --> 00:35:44,880
Speaker 1: got to try and figure out. And so I found

666
00:35:44,880 --> 00:35:48,600
Speaker 1: this quote by brand though about the differences between the two,

667
00:35:48,920 --> 00:35:50,640
Speaker 1: and I write it on all my scripts always have.

668
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,680
Speaker 1: What he said was, you know, in theater you have

669
00:35:53,760 --> 00:35:57,000
Speaker 1: to show the audience what you're thinking. On film, you

670
00:35:57,160 --> 00:36:01,239
Speaker 1: just have to think it. The caveat being that you

671
00:36:01,280 --> 00:36:03,239
Speaker 1: actually have to think it. You can't just act it.

672
00:36:03,320 --> 00:36:06,759
Speaker 1: Like you know, you've been on on camera and on

673
00:36:06,800 --> 00:36:08,600
Speaker 1: stage with people who are no other line is coming,

674
00:36:08,600 --> 00:36:10,560
Speaker 1: and they're prepared and they just say the line. That

675
00:36:10,640 --> 00:36:13,440
Speaker 1: doesn't mean they're having the thought behind the line. And

676
00:36:13,480 --> 00:36:16,040
Speaker 1: that's the difference between I think a good performance many

677
00:36:16,040 --> 00:36:19,759
Speaker 1: times and a poor one where it's like you are

678
00:36:19,840 --> 00:36:23,359
Speaker 1: actively something is going on behind these lines that are

679
00:36:23,400 --> 00:36:25,279
Speaker 1: coming out of out of your head and so like,

680
00:36:25,960 --> 00:36:28,200
Speaker 1: you know, Brando also said the same thing with theatre,

681
00:36:28,239 --> 00:36:31,120
Speaker 1: where he's like, you know, and this is sort of

682
00:36:31,120 --> 00:36:34,080
Speaker 1: thing if anyone's seen anything that I do is a

683
00:36:34,160 --> 00:36:37,280
Speaker 1: very poor imitation of what he said, but I really

684
00:36:37,520 --> 00:36:40,600
Speaker 1: firmly believe it. And Pacino the same has said the

685
00:36:40,600 --> 00:36:42,480
Speaker 1: same sort of thing, where it's like, the character is

686
00:36:42,520 --> 00:36:44,400
Speaker 1: the cage. You build the cage and you can just

687
00:36:44,640 --> 00:36:46,759
Speaker 1: raw the hell out of it, you know what I mean.

688
00:36:47,040 --> 00:36:51,759
Speaker 1: It's like, how does Pacino go again away? It's like

689
00:36:51,800 --> 00:36:54,040
Speaker 1: what how does he get away with the yelling that? Like,

690
00:36:54,080 --> 00:36:56,359
Speaker 1: what what's he doing? But he's built this thing where

691
00:36:56,360 --> 00:36:58,840
Speaker 1: the guy does that and it doesn't seem you know,

692
00:36:58,840 --> 00:37:01,879
Speaker 1: I'm gonna take a flag a price. You're just like, wait,

693
00:37:01,920 --> 00:37:03,840
Speaker 1: you mean you're gonna take a flat for yeah, you know,

694
00:37:04,000 --> 00:37:06,680
Speaker 1: but it's this giant thing and you're like, Okay, he's

695
00:37:06,719 --> 00:37:09,800
Speaker 1: built this character and now he can rattle the cage.

696
00:37:09,840 --> 00:37:14,120
Speaker 1: So I don't have anything new or better to offer

697
00:37:14,800 --> 00:37:16,799
Speaker 1: as an answer to your question than that, but that

698
00:37:16,840 --> 00:37:18,600
Speaker 1: those are pretty good starting points.

699
00:37:18,960 --> 00:37:23,000
Speaker 2: Yeah, no, absolutely, I find it fascinating. But I you know,

700
00:37:23,040 --> 00:37:26,520
Speaker 2: when I made the switch. For me, it was there

701
00:37:26,560 --> 00:37:29,399
Speaker 2: was a harder edge. I wasn't sort of bleeding back

702
00:37:29,440 --> 00:37:32,400
Speaker 2: and forth for the most part, And so I always

703
00:37:32,440 --> 00:37:35,800
Speaker 2: sort of refer to it as me changing careers in

704
00:37:36,200 --> 00:37:39,520
Speaker 2: a way, because I felt like there was just such

705
00:37:39,560 --> 00:37:44,640
Speaker 2: a different mindset and focus in some ways. Even though

706
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:49,239
Speaker 2: the central skill, if you will, is the same, the

707
00:37:49,320 --> 00:37:52,400
Speaker 2: training behind that is still the same. It's just executed

708
00:37:52,480 --> 00:37:53,760
Speaker 2: in such a different way.

709
00:37:54,320 --> 00:37:56,719
Speaker 1: But the community of the the like the community of

710
00:37:56,760 --> 00:37:59,640
Speaker 1: it all, like I'm sharing the dressing room. We're you know,

711
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:03,839
Speaker 1: like my part might be quite big, but there's four

712
00:38:03,880 --> 00:38:06,960
Speaker 1: of us jammed in here and all sharing the same thing,

713
00:38:07,000 --> 00:38:10,680
Speaker 1: and we're all working together, you know, in the and

714
00:38:10,719 --> 00:38:13,560
Speaker 1: it's completely equal, and we're all taking the same five

715
00:38:13,600 --> 00:38:16,600
Speaker 1: minute break, and nobody's getting extra special treatment, at least

716
00:38:16,640 --> 00:38:18,319
Speaker 1: in the productions that I've been involved in, you know.

717
00:38:18,400 --> 00:38:21,640
Speaker 1: And so yeah, that thing is like, hey, it's like DELFI,

718
00:38:21,719 --> 00:38:23,800
Speaker 1: It's like where it all started. We're all like this community,

719
00:38:23,840 --> 00:38:27,839
Speaker 1: we're all doing it together, whereas film, you know, is

720
00:38:29,040 --> 00:38:31,440
Speaker 1: you know, on television, very very different animal.

721
00:38:31,719 --> 00:38:34,960
Speaker 2: What was the decision behind moving to Los Angeles.

722
00:38:35,320 --> 00:38:37,200
Speaker 1: Well, here's the thing. I never moved to Los Angeles.

723
00:38:37,239 --> 00:38:41,279
Speaker 1: I'm in. I stayed in New York and have lived

724
00:38:41,320 --> 00:38:43,520
Speaker 1: in New York. I have children, they were all born

725
00:38:43,560 --> 00:38:46,680
Speaker 1: in the city. And it's funny. You'd shoot out in

726
00:38:46,800 --> 00:38:48,880
Speaker 1: LA all the time and people be like, wait, you

727
00:38:48,880 --> 00:38:50,279
Speaker 1: don't live here. It's like, now, I live in New York,

728
00:38:50,320 --> 00:38:53,080
Speaker 1: and I remember you'd always get like, how'd you get it?

729
00:38:53,080 --> 00:38:55,319
Speaker 1: How'd you manage to do that? I always get that.

730
00:38:55,360 --> 00:38:58,200
Speaker 1: It's like, well, I came for Broadway, like, and I'm

731
00:38:58,239 --> 00:39:00,480
Speaker 1: not like an East Coast West Coast basher. New York

732
00:39:00,520 --> 00:39:03,239
Speaker 1: City is much more. It's me, you know. I like

733
00:39:03,280 --> 00:39:05,680
Speaker 1: to walk. It's boots on the ground. It's like there's

734
00:39:05,680 --> 00:39:08,319
Speaker 1: the gym, you know, there's the there's the deli, there's

735
00:39:08,360 --> 00:39:11,640
Speaker 1: the you know. It was just that kind of thing.

736
00:39:11,680 --> 00:39:15,560
Speaker 1: And what got me there was that guy Philip Rose,

737
00:39:15,800 --> 00:39:18,560
Speaker 1: the director was like, did you bring anything real to sing?

738
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:18,879
Speaker 2: Yes?

739
00:39:18,960 --> 00:39:21,960
Speaker 1: And he ended up you know, blessed bless his cotton socks.

740
00:39:21,960 --> 00:39:24,279
Speaker 1: He cast me in the thing, and next thing you know,

741
00:39:24,320 --> 00:39:26,879
Speaker 1: I'm in living in Hell's kitchen, walking back and forth

742
00:39:26,920 --> 00:39:29,719
Speaker 1: to fifty second Street to the Broadway Theater, you know,

743
00:39:29,880 --> 00:39:32,880
Speaker 1: every every matinee and every night. So I was like,

744
00:39:32,960 --> 00:39:35,160
Speaker 1: this is I feel like I'm supposed to be here

745
00:39:35,200 --> 00:39:38,080
Speaker 1: and you know, so, yeah, I've been in the city

746
00:39:38,120 --> 00:39:39,000
Speaker 1: for like twenty five years.

747
00:39:39,040 --> 00:40:00,319
Speaker 2: I guess, wow, the early two thousands. It's at least

748
00:40:00,320 --> 00:40:04,080
Speaker 2: worth mentioning. You do get cast as in a number

749
00:40:04,239 --> 00:40:09,200
Speaker 2: of shows, big shows at the time, Scrubs, Providence, and

750
00:40:09,239 --> 00:40:15,360
Speaker 2: then ultimately become the what are they called titular titular?

751
00:40:15,840 --> 00:40:18,280
Speaker 2: I don't that's such a weird word. That's the word

752
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:22,640
Speaker 2: that just popped into my head. You become the titular titular.

753
00:40:22,840 --> 00:40:23,839
Speaker 2: I'm not saying it right.

754
00:40:24,200 --> 00:40:28,879
Speaker 1: I think likely to take it good luck.

755
00:40:29,000 --> 00:40:32,920
Speaker 2: I don't know what character ed in ad with the

756
00:40:32,960 --> 00:40:37,799
Speaker 2: aforementioned Julie Bowen. Your experience, well, being the captain of

757
00:40:37,800 --> 00:40:41,600
Speaker 2: the ship, I mean not directing or writing, but being

758
00:40:41,719 --> 00:40:44,319
Speaker 2: the being number one on the call sheet. How was

759
00:40:44,360 --> 00:40:47,719
Speaker 2: that different for you or was that just an extension

760
00:40:47,719 --> 00:40:50,200
Speaker 2: of the other work. Did you feel added pressure?

761
00:40:51,080 --> 00:40:56,440
Speaker 1: Oh? No, I I no, I did not feel added pressure.

762
00:40:56,600 --> 00:40:59,279
Speaker 1: I felt like every now and again something comes up

763
00:40:59,320 --> 00:41:01,560
Speaker 1: and it's just like we're all supposed to be here,

764
00:41:01,719 --> 00:41:03,560
Speaker 1: you know. I worked with name Drop, I worked with

765
00:41:03,600 --> 00:41:06,840
Speaker 1: Mike Farrell from Mash and I remember him. You know,

766
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:09,160
Speaker 1: he would just regale me with like stories and it's

767
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:12,080
Speaker 1: just like, yeah, that was the moment, the moment in time,

768
00:41:12,160 --> 00:41:15,160
Speaker 1: and you know those he said to me, like you

769
00:41:15,160 --> 00:41:17,200
Speaker 1: know those gut we would get together on Friday night

770
00:41:17,239 --> 00:41:20,080
Speaker 1: to see where we were going for dinner on Saturday

771
00:41:20,120 --> 00:41:22,160
Speaker 1: night on her day off nine years in you know

772
00:41:22,200 --> 00:41:24,439
Speaker 1: what I mean, right, And he said and I remember

773
00:41:24,520 --> 00:41:26,400
Speaker 1: him saying, went like verbatim again verbai. He was like,

774
00:41:26,400 --> 00:41:29,120
Speaker 1: can you imagine that? And I could because Ed was

775
00:41:29,160 --> 00:41:33,040
Speaker 1: like that for us, Like it was just you know,

776
00:41:33,440 --> 00:41:37,560
Speaker 1: that show had initially been you know, it was positioned

777
00:41:37,560 --> 00:41:40,600
Speaker 1: for CBS, and then they didn't pick it up. It

778
00:41:40,600 --> 00:41:44,600
Speaker 1: didn't outright Shelvet and Roburnette, who ran the Late Show

779
00:41:44,600 --> 00:41:48,480
Speaker 1: with David Letterman, who also produced at the time, Everiela's Raymond,

780
00:41:48,480 --> 00:41:51,520
Speaker 1: which was a giant show for them, and he had leverage,

781
00:41:51,560 --> 00:41:54,600
Speaker 1: I guess, and he asked for it back because he

782
00:41:54,640 --> 00:41:56,680
Speaker 1: felt something about the show, which we all did, like

783
00:41:56,719 --> 00:41:59,480
Speaker 1: I'd gotten a couple of in strange ways. I also

784
00:41:59,480 --> 00:42:01,279
Speaker 1: auditioned for a couple of other shows and had to

785
00:42:01,760 --> 00:42:04,200
Speaker 1: turn them down. In the year, literally three hundred and

786
00:42:04,200 --> 00:42:06,279
Speaker 1: sixty five days we waited to see if ed would

787
00:42:06,280 --> 00:42:08,719
Speaker 1: go anywhere else, you know, and it just was a

788
00:42:08,760 --> 00:42:13,160
Speaker 1: sense that something about this thing was bigger than us

789
00:42:13,200 --> 00:42:15,799
Speaker 1: at the time, and so I kind of held out

790
00:42:15,800 --> 00:42:18,520
Speaker 1: for it, which on paper it was an insane thing,

791
00:42:18,520 --> 00:42:20,640
Speaker 1: because once the show doesn't go on a network, it's it.

792
00:42:20,640 --> 00:42:21,040
Speaker 1: It's over.

793
00:42:21,440 --> 00:42:22,120
Speaker 2: Yes it is.

794
00:42:22,320 --> 00:42:26,560
Speaker 1: And then Rob took it to NBC and said, you know,

795
00:42:26,680 --> 00:42:31,200
Speaker 1: like and they said, well, okay, let's reshoot the pilot.

796
00:42:32,160 --> 00:42:34,400
Speaker 1: And then they picked it up and then you know,

797
00:42:34,400 --> 00:42:36,439
Speaker 1: it got like twenty two million or something, and it's

798
00:42:36,480 --> 00:42:39,840
Speaker 1: like and it's like debut, and it was thrilling, to

799
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:43,000
Speaker 1: be sure, but it didn't feel like can you believe it?

800
00:42:43,160 --> 00:42:44,560
Speaker 1: Like it just sort of felt like, yeah, we should

801
00:42:44,600 --> 00:42:45,560
Speaker 1: just stay with this horse.

802
00:42:46,200 --> 00:42:46,440
Speaker 2: You know.

803
00:42:46,800 --> 00:42:49,040
Speaker 1: I remember Burnett saying the same thing, and Rob is

804
00:42:49,239 --> 00:42:50,640
Speaker 1: I don't know if you've worked with Rob or no

805
00:42:50,960 --> 00:42:52,440
Speaker 1: Rob at all, but Robert is one of the most

806
00:42:52,480 --> 00:42:55,799
Speaker 1: intelligent and entertaining humans, not in the not in the

807
00:42:55,840 --> 00:42:57,400
Speaker 1: world that we live in, but just like in the

808
00:42:57,440 --> 00:43:01,000
Speaker 1: world itself, Like just as good as they and as

809
00:43:01,040 --> 00:43:04,000
Speaker 1: smart as they get, and smart and humble in power

810
00:43:04,080 --> 00:43:10,000
Speaker 1: don't often collide. Well, And you know, when I got

811
00:43:10,000 --> 00:43:14,359
Speaker 1: offered a lead in another show that did go and

812
00:43:14,640 --> 00:43:16,319
Speaker 1: I was shooting a movie in Utah and we were

813
00:43:16,360 --> 00:43:18,719
Speaker 1: waiting to see NBC hadn't even picked up the thing.

814
00:43:18,840 --> 00:43:22,520
Speaker 1: We were just in this limbo and he was basically like,

815
00:43:22,560 --> 00:43:25,319
Speaker 1: you know, like you should take this other job. I

816
00:43:25,360 --> 00:43:27,279
Speaker 1: was like, I don't. I'm not built that way. I

817
00:43:27,320 --> 00:43:29,080
Speaker 1: sort of feel like you need to have that. We

818
00:43:29,120 --> 00:43:31,759
Speaker 1: need to get a full at bat. You, Robernette, need

819
00:43:31,760 --> 00:43:34,480
Speaker 1: to get a full at bat and you have two strikes. Basically,

820
00:43:34,960 --> 00:43:37,600
Speaker 1: we always do this. We like we when the show

821
00:43:37,640 --> 00:43:39,160
Speaker 1: got picked up and he would try and explain what

822
00:43:39,200 --> 00:43:41,880
Speaker 1: he wanted the character to do. He would use sports analogy,

823
00:43:41,960 --> 00:43:43,400
Speaker 1: and what was great about Rob is he can come

824
00:43:43,480 --> 00:43:46,680
Speaker 1: up with fifty in a minute, and I to entertain myself.

825
00:43:46,920 --> 00:43:48,520
Speaker 1: He would start explaining to me like, you know, like

826
00:43:48,520 --> 00:43:50,160
Speaker 1: it's it's like you're going on the blue line and

827
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:52,359
Speaker 1: then like you feel like, oh wait, I feel somebody's circle.

828
00:43:52,360 --> 00:43:54,000
Speaker 1: You gotta circle back. And I wouldn't say it. I

829
00:43:54,080 --> 00:43:56,279
Speaker 1: just kind of look at him, and then he'd be like,

830
00:43:57,000 --> 00:43:58,880
Speaker 1: you know what, it's like, it's like your goalie is pulled,

831
00:43:58,880 --> 00:44:00,560
Speaker 1: but you need and he would just coming up with

832
00:44:00,560 --> 00:44:01,839
Speaker 1: like a whole bunch of different things, and I would

833
00:44:01,880 --> 00:44:03,960
Speaker 1: just like and then after about three minutes with me

834
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:05,879
Speaker 1: just like wait, he'd be like, you're doing it again,

835
00:44:05,920 --> 00:44:09,200
Speaker 1: aren't you? And oh my god, check this out. This

836
00:44:09,280 --> 00:44:11,800
Speaker 1: is a picture somebody's And I didn't even plan this, Brian,

837
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:13,400
Speaker 1: I swear to god, I didn't plan this. I've never

838
00:44:13,440 --> 00:44:16,120
Speaker 1: seen this picture anywhere, but this is my office and

839
00:44:16,160 --> 00:44:19,120
Speaker 1: like somebody snapped this on Ed while he was trying

840
00:44:19,120 --> 00:44:23,440
Speaker 1: to explain what the character should do to me? Can

841
00:44:24,040 --> 00:44:29,279
Speaker 1: you see that? Yeah, that's me and that's Rob and

842
00:44:29,800 --> 00:44:33,400
Speaker 1: I'm he's just going through sports analogy after sports analogy

843
00:44:33,680 --> 00:44:35,520
Speaker 1: and I'll keep you my mouth shut because he's so

844
00:44:35,640 --> 00:44:38,560
Speaker 1: damn entertaining, right, But he said something like he's like,

845
00:44:38,600 --> 00:44:41,799
Speaker 1: you know, everybody can like pick the thoroughbred in the

846
00:44:41,800 --> 00:44:45,120
Speaker 1: gate that they think, but nobody knows till the horses run,

847
00:44:45,160 --> 00:44:47,840
Speaker 1: you know what I mean. And you know, like in

848
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:50,000
Speaker 1: a strange way with Ed, like it was just they

849
00:44:50,040 --> 00:44:51,960
Speaker 1: just felt like it something here should happen. And then

850
00:44:52,040 --> 00:44:55,319
Speaker 1: we got in like you say, captain, it's like, you know,

851
00:44:55,440 --> 00:44:58,799
Speaker 1: I'm willing to fight for my co workers and co

852
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:01,800
Speaker 1: actors and do that thing, and you know, I definitely

853
00:45:02,200 --> 00:45:05,239
Speaker 1: coming from an athletic background and being a captain on

854
00:45:05,280 --> 00:45:08,880
Speaker 1: sports teams, I know how to do that. That being said,

855
00:45:09,040 --> 00:45:12,799
Speaker 1: it very much felt like theater in the best way

856
00:45:12,920 --> 00:45:17,080
Speaker 1: in that there there there was an equality across the

857
00:45:17,080 --> 00:45:20,239
Speaker 1: board for all the actors. And many shows aren't like that,

858
00:45:20,640 --> 00:45:24,000
Speaker 1: but the good many of the good ones are, and

859
00:45:24,040 --> 00:45:26,600
Speaker 1: so in terms of responsibility, just sort of felt like

860
00:45:26,600 --> 00:45:31,040
Speaker 1: everyone had it to one another to you know, to

861
00:45:31,120 --> 00:45:34,040
Speaker 1: keep the promise of this this thing alive. Those were

862
00:45:34,640 --> 00:45:37,920
Speaker 1: joyous days. And not only that, but the crew was

863
00:45:38,280 --> 00:45:41,480
Speaker 1: family and friends, just as the actors were amongst themselves,

864
00:45:41,520 --> 00:45:43,320
Speaker 1: and it was a whole kind of like sometimes the

865
00:45:43,560 --> 00:45:45,640
Speaker 1: show has its moment in time and you're fortunate enough

866
00:45:45,719 --> 00:45:48,200
Speaker 1: to be part of that thing, and this was this

867
00:45:48,280 --> 00:45:50,320
Speaker 1: was one of those that's awesome.

868
00:45:50,760 --> 00:45:53,240
Speaker 2: I love to hear that, you know. That was shortly

869
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:57,200
Speaker 2: before I moved to Los Angeles, and I was a

870
00:45:57,200 --> 00:46:00,480
Speaker 2: big fan of the show and I just loved Heart

871
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:03,879
Speaker 2: And people talk about this about the Office, so it's

872
00:46:03,920 --> 00:46:05,640
Speaker 2: not me saying it though I'm saying it right now.

873
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,000
Speaker 2: It was a show where you could really feel that

874
00:46:09,040 --> 00:46:11,239
Speaker 2: the people who were working on it cared about each other,

875
00:46:11,440 --> 00:46:13,799
Speaker 2: so it's nice to I mean I could feel that

876
00:46:13,960 --> 00:46:16,640
Speaker 2: watching It's not surprising, but it's still nice to hear

877
00:46:17,000 --> 00:46:18,200
Speaker 2: you talk about And.

878
00:46:18,160 --> 00:46:20,400
Speaker 1: I think people don't know that about I mean, I

879
00:46:20,400 --> 00:46:22,319
Speaker 1: think people know about the success of the Office and

880
00:46:22,360 --> 00:46:26,440
Speaker 1: it's a beloved show, but that it also didn't have like, hey,

881
00:46:26,520 --> 00:46:27,080
Speaker 1: let's do this.

882
00:46:27,320 --> 00:46:27,560
Speaker 2: Yeah.

883
00:46:27,640 --> 00:46:30,640
Speaker 1: I remember talking to John. I think John Krazinski's first

884
00:46:31,080 --> 00:46:33,319
Speaker 1: on an episode I directed, of Ed. I think that

885
00:46:33,400 --> 00:46:35,600
Speaker 1: was his first professional on camera movement.

886
00:46:35,880 --> 00:46:36,280
Speaker 2: Really.

887
00:46:36,440 --> 00:46:39,520
Speaker 1: Yeah, I'd met him at a at the After Offices

888
00:46:39,560 --> 00:46:41,400
Speaker 1: in New York. We walked up the street together just

889
00:46:41,640 --> 00:46:44,000
Speaker 1: he was just a he just moved from Boston, and

890
00:46:44,680 --> 00:46:47,000
Speaker 1: you know, you know how some people like this guy's

891
00:46:47,040 --> 00:46:48,759
Speaker 1: got it, you know what I mean. He just sort

892
00:46:48,760 --> 00:46:51,560
Speaker 1: of felt like I felt like I should know him,

893
00:46:51,600 --> 00:46:53,400
Speaker 1: and he felt I guess I should know me. And

894
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:55,719
Speaker 1: so then I gave him like on the show I

895
00:46:55,760 --> 00:46:57,839
Speaker 1: was directing, I got the cast, and I don't think

896
00:46:57,880 --> 00:47:00,719
Speaker 1: he had a network credit at that point. And I

897
00:47:00,760 --> 00:47:03,600
Speaker 1: still feel bad to this day that like it would

898
00:47:03,640 --> 00:47:06,480
Speaker 1: happen relatively soon, and I was like, do you want

899
00:47:06,520 --> 00:47:10,400
Speaker 1: to play the part of like the subpoena server? And

900
00:47:10,560 --> 00:47:12,920
Speaker 1: so he did that and it was just me and

901
00:47:13,000 --> 00:47:14,600
Speaker 1: him in the scene, and he was the best actor

902
00:47:14,640 --> 00:47:17,200
Speaker 1: in the scene. And you know, this bat to this

903
00:47:17,280 --> 00:47:20,400
Speaker 1: day felt bad that it wasn't a bigger role. But

904
00:47:20,600 --> 00:47:22,080
Speaker 1: I didn't direct all of them. That was one that

905
00:47:22,120 --> 00:47:23,239
Speaker 1: was like, hey, you can do this if you want,

906
00:47:23,280 --> 00:47:25,200
Speaker 1: and he did. But what's interesting is about knowing if

907
00:47:25,200 --> 00:47:27,279
Speaker 1: somebody's a good actor just to go just to take

908
00:47:27,280 --> 00:47:29,640
Speaker 1: the thing off the tracks for a second. Talking about John,

909
00:47:29,719 --> 00:47:32,360
Speaker 1: like when you direct, you're in the edit a lot,

910
00:47:32,800 --> 00:47:35,440
Speaker 1: and I had this wide shot that I use, and

911
00:47:35,800 --> 00:47:39,000
Speaker 1: you know, he has to come in midway through the scene.

912
00:47:39,400 --> 00:47:40,920
Speaker 1: He kind of showed that there's some kind of argument

913
00:47:40,960 --> 00:47:44,479
Speaker 1: that I turned turned around, boom, are you at Stevens guys,

914
00:47:44,640 --> 00:47:47,719
Speaker 1: you've been served? And then off he goes, right, But

915
00:47:48,520 --> 00:47:51,120
Speaker 1: in the two minutes that lead up to that, he's

916
00:47:51,160 --> 00:47:53,800
Speaker 1: completely busy. You know, he's kind of looking around to

917
00:47:53,800 --> 00:47:55,359
Speaker 1: see he kind of orders a drink from the bar,

918
00:47:55,560 --> 00:47:57,640
Speaker 1: kind of looking around, like backing up, scoping it out,

919
00:47:57,719 --> 00:48:00,000
Speaker 1: kind of Oh, just before I think it's that guy,

920
00:48:00,480 --> 00:48:02,640
Speaker 1: you know, and times has walk all the way down

921
00:48:02,719 --> 00:48:04,279
Speaker 1: right to when I'm about to turn in, there he is,

922
00:48:04,640 --> 00:48:07,000
Speaker 1: you know, and that sounds easy. It's not easy. You know,

923
00:48:07,080 --> 00:48:09,840
Speaker 1: it's not easy. It's not easy at all. And crisis

924
00:48:09,840 --> 00:48:12,080
Speaker 1: here is like bang bang bang and watch them an

925
00:48:12,200 --> 00:48:13,719
Speaker 1: edit and I'm just like, you know, when you have

926
00:48:13,760 --> 00:48:16,360
Speaker 1: a good feeling with good people and it happens, it's incredible.

927
00:48:17,120 --> 00:48:20,440
Speaker 2: You do musical theater obviously a lot of comedy and

928
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:25,759
Speaker 2: drama Canada, Ghana, the United States. But I can't find

929
00:48:25,800 --> 00:48:30,000
Speaker 2: anywhere where you had played a superhero or super villain

930
00:48:30,080 --> 00:48:33,560
Speaker 2: or Warren Tights other than Shakespeare. What was that like

931
00:48:33,640 --> 00:48:37,640
Speaker 2: for you stepping into that world? A world obviously with

932
00:48:37,719 --> 00:48:40,439
Speaker 2: a lot of lore, a lot of history, people care

933
00:48:40,480 --> 00:48:42,600
Speaker 2: and believe passionately and it what was it like for

934
00:48:42,680 --> 00:48:45,719
Speaker 2: you to take such a departure for yourself and to

935
00:48:45,880 --> 00:48:46,880
Speaker 2: jump into that world.

936
00:48:47,800 --> 00:48:51,520
Speaker 1: I think the interesting thing about questions and ideas like

937
00:48:51,560 --> 00:48:53,680
Speaker 1: that just I sort of feel like you're always kind

938
00:48:53,680 --> 00:48:56,759
Speaker 1: of trying to I' mean Julie Bowen, so she just

939
00:48:56,800 --> 00:48:59,200
Speaker 1: never thinks she's going to get hired again. The big

940
00:48:59,280 --> 00:49:03,160
Speaker 1: question that sometimes doesn't get addressed is the question of

941
00:49:03,280 --> 00:49:05,680
Speaker 1: in capital letters, will they have you. I'm sure that

942
00:49:05,680 --> 00:49:08,320
Speaker 1: I would love to have been a superhero an Avenger

943
00:49:08,680 --> 00:49:11,640
Speaker 1: in my twenties, you know, and people don't want you,

944
00:49:11,800 --> 00:49:14,480
Speaker 1: or the opportunity doesn't come up, And so that's always

945
00:49:14,520 --> 00:49:16,560
Speaker 1: a giant part of it, as like who will have you?

946
00:49:16,719 --> 00:49:19,560
Speaker 1: And you need sometimes to be aided and embedded by

947
00:49:19,560 --> 00:49:22,600
Speaker 1: people like Berlanti, where you know you've gone through some

948
00:49:22,719 --> 00:49:27,040
Speaker 1: of the fires together and had poor results, so he

949
00:49:27,120 --> 00:49:29,680
Speaker 1: and I forging fires of cancelation and stuff, and like

950
00:49:29,680 --> 00:49:31,799
Speaker 1: the sort of damocles hanging over our head all the time,

951
00:49:31,800 --> 00:49:33,720
Speaker 1: and how you react to that, like, look, I'm happy

952
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:35,799
Speaker 1: to be here. I like this show, I like being

953
00:49:35,800 --> 00:49:37,919
Speaker 1: with you. I like saying these words. After a while,

954
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,360
Speaker 1: it becomes almost like a repertory group with somebody like that,

955
00:49:41,400 --> 00:49:43,799
Speaker 1: where they're like, I can rely on this guy, you know.

956
00:49:43,880 --> 00:49:46,880
Speaker 1: So I don't think I'm anybody's choice to be the

957
00:49:46,960 --> 00:49:49,719
Speaker 1: joker to the Batman the way I am in this

958
00:49:49,840 --> 00:49:53,160
Speaker 1: flashow where I'm the reverse flash to the flash apart

959
00:49:53,160 --> 00:49:56,399
Speaker 1: from Greg Burlanty, I don't think they'd have me. Not

960
00:49:56,480 --> 00:49:58,880
Speaker 1: only that because they didn't want to tell me. They

961
00:49:58,920 --> 00:50:01,640
Speaker 1: don't want to tell anyone actually who the villain was

962
00:50:01,640 --> 00:50:04,080
Speaker 1: because they were afraid of it leaking. They were like, hey,

963
00:50:04,120 --> 00:50:06,080
Speaker 1: do you just want you want to play this scientist?

964
00:50:06,680 --> 00:50:09,480
Speaker 1: And I'm like no, and then like and then and

965
00:50:09,480 --> 00:50:11,839
Speaker 1: then the second phone call was like, come on, play

966
00:50:11,840 --> 00:50:16,520
Speaker 1: the scientist, and I was like, that's your approach, come on,

967
00:50:16,600 --> 00:50:19,480
Speaker 1: come on. The second time, you're like come on, and

968
00:50:19,520 --> 00:50:21,040
Speaker 1: I was like, no, no, I don' want to play

969
00:50:21,040 --> 00:50:24,719
Speaker 1: a scientist. Like I'm like no, you know. Then they're

970
00:50:24,760 --> 00:50:27,040
Speaker 1: like they literally fly me out to Los Angeles, you know,

971
00:50:27,040 --> 00:50:29,040
Speaker 1: like I'll never forget. I'm in the halls of NBC

972
00:50:29,120 --> 00:50:31,319
Speaker 1: and Burbank. It's on like a Saturday, I think, and

973
00:50:31,360 --> 00:50:34,920
Speaker 1: there's nobody around Brian, nobody, and yet you know, the

974
00:50:34,920 --> 00:50:38,400
Speaker 1: executive producer like still goes and like closes the door

975
00:50:39,360 --> 00:50:41,799
Speaker 1: so that nobody will overhear what he has to say.

976
00:50:41,800 --> 00:50:43,520
Speaker 1: I'm like, what is happening, wh I gonna get mugged?

977
00:50:44,280 --> 00:50:47,080
Speaker 1: And he says, the role we really want you for

978
00:50:47,280 --> 00:50:50,480
Speaker 1: is Eobarthon. I'm like, I don't know who that is,

979
00:50:52,280 --> 00:50:54,279
Speaker 1: which I don't say because I don't want to see

980
00:50:54,320 --> 00:50:56,320
Speaker 1: him like a complete idiot because these people comment. But

981
00:50:56,440 --> 00:51:01,600
Speaker 1: people live for this stuff, so I say, keep talking, right,

982
00:51:02,400 --> 00:51:06,480
Speaker 1: and he says he's the reverse Flash and I'm like

983
00:51:07,840 --> 00:51:11,520
Speaker 1: and then he goes he's the villain, and I'm like

984
00:51:11,960 --> 00:51:15,359
Speaker 1: you could have saved yourself two thousand dollars by just

985
00:51:15,400 --> 00:51:19,719
Speaker 1: saying that over the phone. I'm like, I'm in, I'm in,

986
00:51:19,800 --> 00:51:21,879
Speaker 1: of course I'm in, like playing the villain wearing wear

987
00:51:21,920 --> 00:51:24,400
Speaker 1: in a supersuit, right, And to address your question of

988
00:51:24,400 --> 00:51:26,719
Speaker 1: like did you ever think that happens? Like a no B.

989
00:51:27,120 --> 00:51:30,680
Speaker 1: Thank god that it is, you know, twenty twenty three,

990
00:51:30,719 --> 00:51:33,400
Speaker 1: and the era is like Ben Affleck can go on

991
00:51:33,440 --> 00:51:36,279
Speaker 1: the donut diet and still jump into the Batman suit

992
00:51:36,280 --> 00:51:38,560
Speaker 1: and he can be fine, you know what I mean.

993
00:51:38,840 --> 00:51:41,439
Speaker 1: It's not the Adam West of yr when they put

994
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,360
Speaker 1: this spandex on and I'm so sorry, you know what

995
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,000
Speaker 1: I mean. Like then nowadays, you know the suit like

996
00:51:47,040 --> 00:51:49,319
Speaker 1: I had, Like the suit that I wear was like

997
00:51:49,400 --> 00:51:53,160
Speaker 1: ten ten thousand, yeah dollars, and like I've had like

998
00:51:53,239 --> 00:51:55,520
Speaker 1: five five fittings. I've also played the flash. I have

999
00:51:55,520 --> 00:51:57,560
Speaker 1: to wear his red suit. I wear my yellow suit.

1000
00:51:57,760 --> 00:52:02,719
Speaker 1: And it's like artisans and artist crafting these suits, and

1001
00:52:02,800 --> 00:52:05,759
Speaker 1: like I often felt like, you know, like the backstage

1002
00:52:05,800 --> 00:52:10,000
Speaker 1: genius of the office catching the person, like John Clee

1003
00:52:10,040 --> 00:52:11,880
Speaker 1: said it famously. When I was a young person, I

1004
00:52:11,960 --> 00:52:14,920
Speaker 1: used to think that the funniest thing was you know,

1005
00:52:15,040 --> 00:52:16,760
Speaker 1: I'm sure you know this score. But he was like saying,

1006
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:20,280
Speaker 1: the funniest thing ever was a normal person completely losing

1007
00:52:20,320 --> 00:52:23,440
Speaker 1: their mind, like just having the biggest breakdown and just

1008
00:52:23,520 --> 00:52:26,359
Speaker 1: kind of like screaming and going off the rails. He said,

1009
00:52:26,400 --> 00:52:28,239
Speaker 1: As I go, oh do, I realized the funniest thing

1010
00:52:28,280 --> 00:52:30,920
Speaker 1: was the man watching Batman. Yeah, you know, which is

1011
00:52:30,920 --> 00:52:33,239
Speaker 1: basically that's the that's the genius of the office, right.

1012
00:52:33,320 --> 00:52:35,719
Speaker 1: And so I've often felt like for these fittings, if

1013
00:52:35,719 --> 00:52:37,920
Speaker 1: they knew what they were doing, they would actually have

1014
00:52:38,040 --> 00:52:42,480
Speaker 1: somebody as this person's getting fit for a super suit film.

1015
00:52:42,560 --> 00:52:46,239
Speaker 1: The people like just like staring at you, and they

1016
00:52:46,320 --> 00:52:48,359
Speaker 1: reach out and they kind of like tug a cowl

1017
00:52:48,480 --> 00:52:54,400
Speaker 1: right in your face and they're like like okay, you

1018
00:52:54,400 --> 00:52:57,839
Speaker 1: know what I mean. PROD push bang, PROD pull.

1019
00:52:58,280 --> 00:52:58,480
Speaker 2: You know.

1020
00:52:58,640 --> 00:53:02,520
Speaker 1: But like and then you ultimately end up being the

1021
00:53:02,520 --> 00:53:05,520
Speaker 1: most grateful beneficiary of their work because you put on

1022
00:53:05,560 --> 00:53:07,640
Speaker 1: the suit fits you like love, you look good. It's

1023
00:53:07,680 --> 00:53:10,560
Speaker 1: just like thank heavens, Thank heavens for them.

1024
00:53:11,280 --> 00:53:15,400
Speaker 2: Yeah, and then it's not spandex. Yeah, I just want

1025
00:53:15,640 --> 00:53:19,399
Speaker 2: to hear from you. For me, it's a dream role

1026
00:53:20,200 --> 00:53:26,160
Speaker 2: because you are constantly playing different characters, different versions of yourself.

1027
00:53:27,080 --> 00:53:29,080
Speaker 2: That's a dream for me. How has that been? Has

1028
00:53:29,120 --> 00:53:32,799
Speaker 2: that been challenging or just fun to dive in and

1029
00:53:32,960 --> 00:53:36,200
Speaker 2: find different versions of yourself to play these various characters

1030
00:53:36,200 --> 00:53:38,080
Speaker 2: that reverse flash in habits.

1031
00:53:38,320 --> 00:53:41,279
Speaker 1: Well, not to bore your listeners, I assume by now

1032
00:53:41,280 --> 00:53:43,480
Speaker 1: if they're still on there on for the rest of

1033
00:53:43,520 --> 00:53:47,160
Speaker 1: this you know, but I mean, you know so because

1034
00:53:47,200 --> 00:53:50,080
Speaker 1: of BERLANDI and the shows that we don't or are

1035
00:53:50,120 --> 00:53:53,920
Speaker 1: being canceled. You know, we went into season one just

1036
00:53:54,080 --> 00:53:56,680
Speaker 1: we're just going to tell Batman versus Joker. It's going

1037
00:53:56,760 --> 00:53:58,680
Speaker 1: to become me, and you don't know that I am.

1038
00:53:58,800 --> 00:54:01,480
Speaker 1: You think I'm like his mentor, and then I end

1039
00:54:01,560 --> 00:54:04,800
Speaker 1: up being the reverse Flash. And so it's basically Flash

1040
00:54:04,880 --> 00:54:07,279
Speaker 1: versus Reverse Flash for twenty two episodes and in the

1041
00:54:07,280 --> 00:54:09,359
Speaker 1: big finale in the twenty third episode, it's me versus

1042
00:54:09,480 --> 00:54:11,319
Speaker 1: him giant fight and he wins because guess what it's

1043
00:54:11,320 --> 00:54:13,760
Speaker 1: called the Flash. You know. The network's like Warner Brothers

1044
00:54:13,840 --> 00:54:15,880
Speaker 1: is like, we want more of these, many more of these,

1045
00:54:16,440 --> 00:54:19,759
Speaker 1: and so for me, it's like, well, you can't tell

1046
00:54:19,760 --> 00:54:21,719
Speaker 1: that story again. You already did Flash versus Flash. So

1047
00:54:21,719 --> 00:54:24,040
Speaker 1: I was like, thank you you know, see, yeah, I

1048
00:54:24,080 --> 00:54:26,759
Speaker 1: appreciate it. And then Greg was like, well, what would

1049
00:54:26,760 --> 00:54:29,279
Speaker 1: it basically take for you to come back? And then

1050
00:54:29,440 --> 00:54:32,600
Speaker 1: that's where the idea was hatched to, like what if

1051
00:54:32,640 --> 00:54:36,360
Speaker 1: you're the same character but from Because it's a multiverse,

1052
00:54:36,360 --> 00:54:38,800
Speaker 1: there's many earths, and there's like, you know, we could

1053
00:54:38,960 --> 00:54:41,799
Speaker 1: while we're waiting for the yellow suited guy to come

1054
00:54:41,800 --> 00:54:45,040
Speaker 1: in and wreak havoc to Central City, I could invent

1055
00:54:45,120 --> 00:54:47,759
Speaker 1: another character that has the same name, but it looks

1056
00:54:47,760 --> 00:54:50,319
Speaker 1: the same, but it's different. And that's where that came

1057
00:54:50,360 --> 00:54:52,399
Speaker 1: out of. And so every year it was like, I

1058
00:54:52,440 --> 00:54:56,200
Speaker 1: think I want to play an Indiana Jones type character.

1059
00:54:56,640 --> 00:54:58,600
Speaker 1: Or I remember season I think it was season four

1060
00:54:58,640 --> 00:55:00,759
Speaker 1: where I said to the show runner helping, I'm like,

1061
00:55:01,640 --> 00:55:06,600
Speaker 1: what if Sherlock Holmes is French and is trying to

1062
00:55:06,680 --> 00:55:09,719
Speaker 1: track down me the reverse flash? That would be a

1063
00:55:09,719 --> 00:55:11,840
Speaker 1: good storyline. And he was like, I don't know if

1064
00:55:11,840 --> 00:55:13,319
Speaker 1: we can get away with the French thing. I'm like, no,

1065
00:55:13,360 --> 00:55:15,520
Speaker 1: we can do it. It's going to be great. Trust me,

1066
00:55:15,920 --> 00:55:18,880
Speaker 1: he's French, He's show look, show look, look, you know,

1067
00:55:19,040 --> 00:55:22,360
Speaker 1: and like by this time we still hadn't gotten canceled,

1068
00:55:22,400 --> 00:55:24,360
Speaker 1: but then they're like, yeah, okay, fine.

1069
00:55:24,080 --> 00:55:24,719
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

1070
00:55:25,120 --> 00:55:27,520
Speaker 1: It's over an actor, Like if you know, if you're

1071
00:55:27,560 --> 00:55:29,160
Speaker 1: lucky enough to be in a long running show like

1072
00:55:29,200 --> 00:55:32,880
Speaker 1: that's that's kind of everything right there. You're going to

1073
00:55:32,920 --> 00:55:34,800
Speaker 1: play the same character and you're going to be grateful

1074
00:55:34,800 --> 00:55:38,759
Speaker 1: for it. Like to have something like this where you know,

1075
00:55:38,880 --> 00:55:42,000
Speaker 1: like you get to play the villain who's the same

1076
00:55:42,239 --> 00:55:45,120
Speaker 1: and then invent a new character year after year on

1077
00:55:45,160 --> 00:55:47,160
Speaker 1: a show that ran nine years, it's kind of like

1078
00:55:47,200 --> 00:55:52,000
Speaker 1: it's insane, so that rarely, rarely really happened. So I

1079
00:55:52,040 --> 00:55:53,080
Speaker 1: couldn't be more grateful.

1080
00:55:54,080 --> 00:55:58,240
Speaker 2: You stepped out a couple of years ago, and now

1081
00:55:58,440 --> 00:56:01,759
Speaker 2: this is the ninth year. As you mentioned, it's its

1082
00:56:01,840 --> 00:56:04,239
Speaker 2: final season. Are there feeling are you going through the

1083
00:56:04,280 --> 00:56:06,279
Speaker 2: feelings even though you're not there every day?

1084
00:56:07,360 --> 00:56:10,600
Speaker 1: No? Okay, I mean I think it's different, like I

1085
00:56:10,600 --> 00:56:14,440
Speaker 1: think a show like The Office is different. I think

1086
00:56:14,480 --> 00:56:17,239
Speaker 1: a half hour is different, you know, I think you

1087
00:56:17,280 --> 00:56:19,400
Speaker 1: know how it is like an hour can be like,

1088
00:56:20,360 --> 00:56:24,000
Speaker 1: you know, grueling, an hour that is like Law and

1089
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:28,760
Speaker 1: Order can be grueling. It's a whole, big, giant production.

1090
00:56:29,440 --> 00:56:32,120
Speaker 1: And after I left after season six, it felt like

1091
00:56:32,160 --> 00:56:34,080
Speaker 1: I've always kind of felt like you want to you

1092
00:56:34,120 --> 00:56:36,239
Speaker 1: want to do you the best you can to not

1093
00:56:36,400 --> 00:56:38,160
Speaker 1: leave on the far side of the mountain, and you

1094
00:56:38,160 --> 00:56:40,759
Speaker 1: don't want to overstay. You're welcome, and I felt that

1095
00:56:40,920 --> 00:56:45,160
Speaker 1: staying longer would be overstaying my welcome caveat being that

1096
00:56:45,400 --> 00:56:48,480
Speaker 1: I knew that Batman's going to need the joker, So

1097
00:56:49,160 --> 00:56:54,000
Speaker 1: I had an incredible position where I could leave the show,

1098
00:56:54,080 --> 00:56:57,040
Speaker 1: but would I knew that I would be called back

1099
00:56:57,280 --> 00:56:59,840
Speaker 1: because I that's the main villain, you know, So it

1100
00:57:00,200 --> 00:57:02,680
Speaker 1: couldn't be more ideal because you didn't have to like

1101
00:57:02,960 --> 00:57:06,480
Speaker 1: get teary eyed and bid farewell and be upset. And

1102
00:57:06,680 --> 00:57:08,920
Speaker 1: sure enough, every year they would call me back to

1103
00:57:08,920 --> 00:57:10,880
Speaker 1: do a little bit, So I got to see everybody

1104
00:57:10,920 --> 00:57:12,560
Speaker 1: and hang out for a little bit, but also not

1105
00:57:12,640 --> 00:57:14,640
Speaker 1: do twenty two in the dark of night, you know

1106
00:57:14,680 --> 00:57:17,440
Speaker 1: what I mean. And so I feel like when we

1107
00:57:17,520 --> 00:57:20,240
Speaker 1: said goodbye, you know, I think we said goodbye at

1108
00:57:20,240 --> 00:57:22,840
Speaker 1: the right time. It was like four and a half years,

1109
00:57:22,880 --> 00:57:25,360
Speaker 1: I think, but I remember it being really difficult. I

1110
00:57:25,360 --> 00:57:29,320
Speaker 1: remember that being extremely emotional. It just felt like your

1111
00:57:29,640 --> 00:57:31,400
Speaker 1: heart was breaking, even though you knew it was the

1112
00:57:32,000 --> 00:57:34,560
Speaker 1: right thing, you know. And I think nine years on

1113
00:57:34,600 --> 00:57:38,760
Speaker 1: a superhero show. Everybody's like, God, did you cut yet?

1114
00:57:39,160 --> 00:57:39,640
Speaker 2: God?

1115
00:57:39,920 --> 00:57:42,040
Speaker 1: Okay, bye?

1116
00:57:42,480 --> 00:57:43,080
Speaker 2: You know what I mean.

1117
00:57:46,200 --> 00:57:48,479
Speaker 1: That's just one person's opinion. I think there'll be many

1118
00:57:48,680 --> 00:57:51,320
Speaker 1: actors and actresses on that show who you know, have

1119
00:57:51,880 --> 00:57:54,720
Speaker 1: a different thing. But only I think half of the

1120
00:57:54,760 --> 00:57:59,480
Speaker 1: OG cast made it through, you know, a full nine anyway,

1121
00:57:59,600 --> 00:58:04,280
Speaker 1: so they may have different they may have different impressions.

1122
00:58:04,560 --> 00:58:09,560
Speaker 2: Well, you're certainly not looking for things to do. You're

1123
00:58:09,600 --> 00:58:12,720
Speaker 2: doing a ton of directing, I understand, including directing the

1124
00:58:12,720 --> 00:58:20,560
Speaker 2: premiere of Superman for the CW, another tights wearing hero.

1125
00:58:20,720 --> 00:58:21,439
Speaker 1: Exactly right.

1126
00:58:22,400 --> 00:58:26,360
Speaker 2: You have a Broadway musical that's in the works, and

1127
00:58:26,600 --> 00:58:31,120
Speaker 2: a new game show coming up for Game Show Network. Hey, Yahoo,

1128
00:58:31,640 --> 00:58:35,800
Speaker 2: you've done your homework. Man. I mean you're You're everywhere,

1129
00:58:35,960 --> 00:58:45,480
Speaker 2: and you know what, this country, America is better for it. Canadians,

1130
00:58:45,720 --> 00:58:49,920
Speaker 2: they lost you long ago. I heard twenty five years

1131
00:58:49,920 --> 00:58:53,800
Speaker 2: you've been here. You're famously from America.

1132
00:58:53,880 --> 00:58:59,720
Speaker 1: Now you're a grand You're a grand human being.

1133
00:59:00,520 --> 00:59:04,440
Speaker 2: Tom. Thank you so much. I really appreciate your time

1134
00:59:04,720 --> 00:59:05,200
Speaker 2: coming on.

1135
00:59:06,200 --> 00:59:09,360
Speaker 1: Uh, patient and tolerant. Let me just say I'm gonna

1136
00:59:09,480 --> 00:59:12,080
Speaker 1: I am inject with like your patient and tolerant. This

1137
00:59:12,120 --> 00:59:14,640
Speaker 1: is a guy who talked about himself for an hour,

1138
00:59:15,160 --> 00:59:19,440
Speaker 1: and I feel that just mercy on your and your listeners.

1139
00:59:19,440 --> 00:59:22,440
Speaker 1: But you're oh, no, generous. You're generous to have me aboard.

1140
00:59:22,480 --> 00:59:24,800
Speaker 1: I appreciate it. It's just great to talk to you.

1141
00:59:24,880 --> 00:59:27,880
Speaker 2: Through this work. Don't let's not mistake it. I have

1142
00:59:28,200 --> 00:59:30,680
Speaker 2: I have a ticket in the express elevator to Heaven.

1143
00:59:30,800 --> 00:59:33,280
Speaker 2: Don't mistake me. Don't mistake me.

1144
00:59:34,040 --> 00:59:36,760
Speaker 1: But I wanted to get to heaven and he didn't

1145
00:59:36,760 --> 00:59:40,920
Speaker 1: want to wait in line. I don't Hey, hey, Brian,

1146
00:59:41,040 --> 00:59:42,160
Speaker 1: come on forward.

1147
00:59:42,360 --> 00:59:46,840
Speaker 2: No, I don't do I don't do lines. No, you

1148
00:59:46,920 --> 00:59:52,320
Speaker 2: don't do lines, not anymore. Thank you, Tom. I appreciate it.

1149
00:59:52,480 --> 01:00:05,520
Speaker 1: Real pleasure, Tom.

1150
01:00:05,720 --> 01:00:08,840
Speaker 2: Thank you for joining me and really for becoming my

1151
01:00:08,920 --> 01:00:11,560
Speaker 2: new bestie. I'm going to see you soon, all right,

1152
01:00:11,800 --> 01:00:16,160
Speaker 2: to be continued as they say in a flash, if

1153
01:00:16,200 --> 01:00:20,000
Speaker 2: you will, thank you. Thank you very much, listeners. I'm

1154
01:00:20,000 --> 01:00:22,200
Speaker 2: going to see you next week for another episode. I

1155
01:00:22,240 --> 01:00:26,000
Speaker 2: can't wait. I hope you will join me. I will

1156
01:00:26,040 --> 01:00:36,920
Speaker 2: talk to you then. Off the Beat is hosted and

1157
01:00:37,000 --> 01:00:42,560
Speaker 2: executive produced by me Brian Baumgartner, alongside our executive producer, Linglee,

1158
01:00:42,640 --> 01:00:46,880
Speaker 2: our senior producer is Diego Tapia. Our producers are Liz Hayes,

1159
01:00:47,000 --> 01:00:50,880
Speaker 2: Hannah Harris and Emily Carr. Our talent producer is Ryan

1160
01:00:51,240 --> 01:00:55,160
Speaker 2: Papa Zachary and our intern is Sammy Katz. Our theme

1161
01:00:55,240 --> 01:00:58,960
Speaker 2: song Bubble and Squeak, performed by the one and Only

1162
01:00:59,320 --> 01:00:59,960
Speaker 2: Creed Brad